1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d July 2008 2 71 16_Boston questions6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:53:39 -0600318_US-ASCII Dear Homeschool Friends,

There is some chance that our family may be moving to Boston. Can any of
you in the area get in touch with me off list as I would like to ask some
questions. I am especially interested in reconnecting with Yael Resnick if
you have time to call me - 303.355.1136. [...]41_3Jul200816:53:39-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 74 104 20_Re: Boston questions12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Thu, 3 Jul 2008 21:05:14 -0400605_us-ascii Shoshana! I'm here! :) I'll call you in the next few days, IY"H.

Would you possibly move to Sharon?? :) :)

Yael

>Dear Homeschool Friends,
>
>There is some chance that our family may be moving to Boston. Can
>any of you in the area get in touch with me off list as I would like
>to ask some questions. I am especially interested in reconnecting
>with Yael Resnick if you have time to call me - 303.355.1136.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Shoshana Zohari
>Denver, CO
>
>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by [...]43_3Jul200821:05:14-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 179 58 5_Goals14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG30_Mon, 7 Jul 2008 00:43:12 -0700592_ISO-8859-1 Hi,

I would love to hear about goals for what you would like to achieve in the
long-term for your children - academic, Torah knowledge, learning /
study skills, life skills, social skills, middos, moral attitudes etc etc.

Thanks so much,

Gaby

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_7Jul200800:43:12-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 238 48 9_Re: Goals14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU30_Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:41:55 -0500488_us-ascii Gaby wrote:
> I would love to hear about goals for what you would
> like to achieve in the long-term for your children -
> academic, Torah knowledge, learning / study skills,
> life skills, social skills, middos, moral attitudes
> etc etc.

I imagine folks are a bit overwhelmed by the scope of your
question: we all have so many goals and hopes for our
children! Maybe people could post one or two specific goals
that you consider a priority. [...]41_8Jul200813:41:55-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 287 42 9_Re: Goals7_TJ Cole20_harbke2000@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 8 Jul 2008 13:07:10 -0700515_iso-8859-1 I am looking for a resource to teach the history of people living Torah in the diaspora.  Would anyone have any ideas?
 
TJ

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG41_8Jul200813:07:10-0700harbke2000@YAHOO.COM 330 147 9_Re: Goals10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM30_Tue, 8 Jul 2008 23:26:00 +0300599_ISO-8859-1 I agree that that's a huge question, and difficult to tackle. So instead,
I'd like to share with you something recent in our family.

My oldest child just became bar mitzvah last week :-) I have noticed over
the last year or so that his attitude to learning (and life) in general has
matured a lot. The way he approached learning to lein, learning his parsha
in especial depth, learning how to write a dvar torah, the whole subject of
tefillin, as well as his approach to secular "studies" (that is in inverted
commas because we are basically unschoolers and [...]41_8Jul200823:26:00+0300fox.louise@GMAIL.COM 478 89 25_Re: Jewish Diaspora Texts14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM30_Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:09:46 +0300573_ISO-8859-1 There is Sand and Stars by Yaffa Ganz and R' Wein, and 2000 Years of Jewish
History by R' Shloss. Either would make a good spine.

I love neither because in S&S *nothing* is ever the fault of the Jewish
community, they are blameless, which simply isn't historically accurate, so
if the child is old enough, I would recommend going straight to R' Wein's
adult books. 2000 Years is meant for a jr. high school audience (younger as
a read aloud) and is well written. It is Hareidi, so you want to know where
you stand on say, the State [...]39_9Jul200801:09:46+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM 568 518 9_Re: Goals6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Tue, 8 Jul 2008 18:17:30 -0700548_iso-8859-1 Louise,

I have to tell you that your answer is very soothing to me. My children at
home are almost 7, 4 ˝ and 2. I have no fixed structure to our schooling at
this point in time, although I experiment with some from time to time. I
worry sometimes that I’m leading them astray. And yet I see them growing
before my eyes. I’ve never done a careful assessment of where they are at
compared to any standard, and yet I can’t think of an area in which they are
really behind, and there are several where each is [...]44_8Jul200818:17:30-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 1087 143 9_Re: Goals25_Dickman, Benjamin H (Ben)27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM30_Tue, 8 Jul 2008 20:33:25 -0500548_US-ASCII TJ:

I liked ArtScroll History's "From Yavneh to Pumbaditha". It spends time
on
the community in Bavel and their Torah life.

kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman

________________________________

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG]
On Behalf Of TJ Cole
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 4:07 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Goals

I am looking for a resource to teach the history of people living Torah
in the diaspora. Would anyone have any ideas? [...]48_8Jul200820:33:25-0500bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM 1231 49 9_Re: Goals10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL30_Wed, 9 Jul 2008 10:58:22 +0300678_ISO-8859-1 Basically I want my children to have yiras shamayim, self-confidence and
self-esteem, respect for others, and to enjoy learning.

Contemplating the above, I realize school didn't give them any of those
things! (the older ones who were schooled)

As far as skills go, I do want them to have basic arithmetic, reading
and writing in English and Hebrew (we are in Israel and speak English at
home so they speak both languages fluently with little effort), and
life skills including cooking and housekeeping, budgeting, and social
negotiation (recognizing other's feelings and ability to apologize and
to develop compromises) and in [...]38_9Jul200810:58:22+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 1281 84 17_Algebra textbooks14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM30_Wed, 9 Jul 2008 21:46:49 +0300599_ISO-8859-1 I am looking for help with an algebra text.

We have been using Teaching Textbooks Pre-Algebra, and are overall
reasonably pleased. We have not found that ds (10) can't use it
independently, because it isn't really set up to teach the way he learns. Ds
doesn't like explanations-- he likes an incremental approach so that he
doesn't ever need explanations and can figure it out for himself (which is
why Miquon was such a great match for him. I wish they made Miquon through
calculus, we would have used only that). We have tweaked TT so that it does
work [...]39_9Jul200821:46:49+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM 1366 106 21_Re: Algebra textbooks13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Jul 2008 13:44:39 -0700584_windows-1252 We had a similar experience with Teaching Textbooks, which I initially was very pleased with.  It is not very challenging, which is why so many kids do well with it. 
 
I've been using Video Text algebra with my daughter, and have never seen anything bad said about it except the price.  It is very pricey.  Someone whose opinion I value recommended it, and has a teen who is a math whiz and another who is weak mathematically, and found it effectie for both.  So I got it and as of now, that's what I'm planning to stick with, as it is excellent.
 
But [...]43_9Jul200813:44:39-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1473 136 21_Re: Algebra textbooks10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM30_Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:42:19 +0300364_ISO-8859-1 Malkie,

Benjamin is using Singapore Math's NEM, which works great for him for many
of the same reasons you cite for Nadiv. And believe me, the problems have
plenty to get your teeth into! They add a "challenger" set at the end of
each chapter, and those do not have solutions in the back, so if we get
stuck, we're really stuck! [...]41_9Jul200823:42:19+0300fox.louise@GMAIL.COM 1610 23 21_Re: Algebra textbooks17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Wed, 9 Jul 2008 22:40:20 -0400597_iso-8859-1 >I want to second the recommendation for NEM for a child that like to
figure it out on his own . . . and likes challenging problems. Most
definitely order the detailed answer key which works out all the answers
in detail-- it makes all the difference in the world!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]37_9Jul200822:40:20-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 1634 73 21_Re: Algebra textbooks14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG30_Wed, 9 Jul 2008 23:13:26 -0700473_ISO-8859-1 I've heard great things about the Key To... series - I really have no
experience with this, since we're still earlier on, although I did take a
quick look at the Algebra series recently, and it seemed quite clearly laid
out. I would also recommend checking out two websites -
http://www.homeschoolmath.net/curriculum_reviews/ - it really helped me
narrow down which curriculum to use, and www.homeschooolreviews.com for
general curriulum. [...]38_9Jul200823:13:26-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 1708 63 21_Re: Algebra textbooks17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:19:20 -0400563_iso-8859-1 > The Key To Series is excellent if you are looking for a clear
presentation that is easy for kids to do on their own, or for remedial
work for a child that is struggling . . .but the series does not have
novel and challenging problems.
Chana

I've heard great things about the Key To... series - I really have no
> experience with this, since we're still earlier on, although I did take a
> quick look at the Algebra series recently, and it seemed quite clearly
> laid
> out. I would also recommend checking out two [...]38_10Jul200809:19:20-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 1772 40 22_elementary school math6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 10 Jul 2008 09:15:32 -0700606_US-ASCII Well, now that everyone's on the subject of math, I could use some advice.
I haven't introduced my almost 7 to a formal curriculum yet. He get's bored
with workbooks and avoids them. If I don't push him, he loves going around
doing math in his head, and playing with math word problems that have him
doing addition, subtraction, very simple multiplication, division and
fractions. He stops doing it if I push too much. I've thought about just
leaving him alone to explore for as long as he's growing, playfully
challenging him with new math puzzles and problems, but I'm [...]45_10Jul200809:15:32-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 1813 69 21_Re: Algebra textbooks14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 10 Jul 2008 18:15:25 +0300458_ISO-8859-1 I agree that there is no perfect math program. But some are definitely
better matches for an individual child than others. I find that if the
program matches the child, the child learns more effectively and more
efficiently, and my job is easier. The wrong program or even the right
program used the wrong way can turn my ds off, and then we both end up
frustrated. I have a kid who loves math, and I want to keep it that way! [...]40_10Jul200818:15:25+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM 1883 98 26_Re: elementary school math25_Dickman, Benjamin H (Ben)27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:41:51 -0500480_US-ASCII Sharon,

I'd be wary of pushing computation on a child
unless s/he thinks it's fun. I don't think
most kids would find it interesting.

Try giving them a compass and straight-edge
and ask them to see what they can make with it.
Circles are easy. How about triangles? Hexagons?

Find 3-dimensional building materials that can link
into cage-type structures. Flexible is better.
Can they build a geodesic? A soccer ball (12 faces)? [...]49_10Jul200817:41:51-0500bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM 1982 115 26_Re: elementary school math14_Hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 10 Jul 2008 19:32:17 -0700497_iso-8859-1 wow..that is such an interesting way to do it......ill have you come and teach MY daughter....!!! Hadas

----- Original Message ----
From: "Dickman, Benjamin H (Ben)"
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:41:51 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] elementary school math

Sharon,

I'd be wary of pushing computation on a child
unless s/he thinks it's fun.  I don't think
most kids would find it interesting. [...]42_10Jul200819:32:17-0700hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET 2098 67 21_Re: Algebra textbooks26_Daniel and Leigh Bar-Yakov21_ldby@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 10 Jul 2008 23:16:03 +0300537_ISO-8859-1 Malkie Swidler wrote:
> I agree that there is no perfect math program. But some are definitely
> better matches for an individual child than others. I find that if the
> program matches the child, the child learns more effectively and more
> efficiently, and my job is easier. The wrong program or even the right
> program used the wrong way can turn my ds off, and then we both end up
> frustrated. I have a kid who loves math, and I want to keep it that way!
>
> Ds thinks we should stick to TT [...]43_10Jul200823:16:03+0300ldby@NETVISION.NET.IL 2166 381 13_great article0_17_renalevin@AOL.COM31_Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:06:59 -0400467_utf-8 saw this on another board, with comments from that board. read through to the end.....

Rena in Baltimore

Excellent article!!!!

Excellent article!!! I received this from a friend. If you want to see it at its origin, click
on this link:

http://www.djournal .com/pages/ story.asp? ID=274594&pub=1&div=Opinion

(A personal email from him to me follows)

*SONNY SCOTT:Home-schooler 's threaten our cultural comfort * [...]39_11Jul200808:06:59-0400renalevin@AOL.COM 2548 119 26_Re: elementary school math10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:37:33 +0300372_ISO-8859-1 Let him play with maths in his head. He has plenty of time to get to a
curriculum - he's not even 7 yet, you said!

Also, there are so many fun maths websites that you/he can get maths games
from - at this age, who needs workbooks?!
Try funbrain.com or mathplayground.com or (my favourite) *nrich*.*maths*.org
(from Cambridge University) [...]42_11Jul200808:37:33+0300fox.louise@GMAIL.COM 2668 90 9_Re: Goals14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Fri, 11 Jul 2008 13:45:19 -0700576_ISO-8859-1 I really appreciate people's responses so far - they're helping me try to
get a clearer idea of where we're headed - I often feel that I need more
direction. I feel that if we have a good idea for what we're aiming at in
the long-term, then that will help significantly. About two years ago the
discussion briefly came up on this list - but it stopped after a couple of
people had given their thoughts - maybe everyone else was scared off :-) I
started thinking about this while reading a homeschooling book that suggests
writing out your [...]39_11Jul200813:45:19-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 2759 444 17_Re: great article16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Fri, 11 Jul 2008 17:01:41 -0700651_UTF-8 Fantastic article, I agree!

renalevin@AOL.COM wrote:
> saw this on another board, with comments from that board. read through
> to the end.....
>
> Rena in Baltimore
>
>
> Excellent article!!!!
>
>
> Excellent article!!! I received this from a friend. If you want to see
> it at its origin, click
> on this link:
>
> http://www.djournal .com/pages/ story.asp? ID=274594&pub=1&div=Opinion
>
> (A personal email from him to me follows)
>
> *SONNY SCOTT:Home-schooler 's threaten our cultural comfort *
>
> 6/8/2008 9:39:01 AM
> Daily Journal
>
> You see them at the [...]41_11Jul200817:01:41-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM 3204 85 26_Re: elementary school math14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Sun, 13 Jul 2008 00:48:48 -0700357_ISO-8859-1 My kids and I love Shiller Math (www.shillermath.com) - no workbooks :-) -
comes with all the manipulatives - has activities for all different learning
styles. It approaches math in a significantly different order to all the
other curriculum - and now that we're using it, I can see that this approach
makes total logical sense. [...]39_13Jul200800:48:48-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 3290 81 26_Re: elementary school math10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:04:07 +0300606_ISO-8859-1 Gaby Neuburger wrote:
> My kids and I love Shiller Math (www.shillermath.com
> )

We love it too! There are workbooks but not the kind that have endless
problems to solve, they are more like activity books with fun activities
to do. Everything is scripted for the parent so there is no prep time,
and my son, now 6 really does enjoy it. All the kids enjoy the music.
The approach is smart - there is a written in possibility to work with
different learning styles but if your child doesn't like some of them
you can skip and still [...]39_13Jul200819:04:07+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 3372 542 26_Re: elementary school math6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:26:37 -0700462_us-ascii I appreciate the advice you are all giving. As I think it through, I see
that I'm still baffled. Let me explain.

When I was thinking about teaching my children to read, there was a ton of
discussion out there about literacy, approaches, age, curricula, and so on.
I also have a clear point of measurement with no real effort. My child is
reading liberally, a bookworm, so I feel I can step back and let him make
his own path. [...]45_14Jul200811:26:37-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 3915 211 26_Re: elementary school math17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 14 Jul 2008 16:00:27 -0400629_iso-8859-1 Bentzion's suggestions for mathematical thinking are wonderful, but they
do not preclude spending some time building rote computational skills.

Although I agree there is no reason to panic if your child does not enjoy
rote computation at this age (or takes a little longer to become
proficient), there is no reason to give up on it entirely.
There are many games on the market (and some that require no more than
dice or a spinner or paper and pencil) that provide computational
practice-- and often kids who hate worksheets will respond to some of the
more creative ways of squeezing [...]38_14Jul200816:00:27-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 4127 28 37_Successful Homeschool Family Handbook13_Chava Burnham19_cyburnham@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:59:25 +0300409_US-ASCII Is anyone familiar with this book? They were giving it away at my
local library so I snatched it up. I'm in Israel so it was kind of
exciting - I don't come by books like this often!
I'm in the middle of chapter 3 and I'm getting kind of turned off by
the heavy Xian overtones, so I thought I'd check here to see if
anyone else was familiar with it and what you thought about it. [...]41_15Jul200812:59:25+0300cyburnham@GMAIL.COM 4156 96 41_Re: Successful Homeschool Family Handbook14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:44:19 +0300399_ISO-8859-1 IHO, this is not the best thing to come out of the Moore Foundation. It's
worth checking their website and reading about the Moore formula. When I
come across a mom who believes in early academics, I recommend better late
than early, another of their books.

But that one? There are a lot of great hs books out there, and that one is
not on my top 10 (or 20) list. [...]40_15Jul200816:44:19+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM 4253 535 26_Re: elementary school math6_B Mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:23:32 -0700574_WINDOWS-1252 For what it is worth:
My son will graduate from University next June if all goes well. His math
background wasn't much to speak of. Basically un-schooled, He did a
correspondence high school that had open book testing over the computer. I
think he took geometry as an elective. My point is that it wasn't the
latest or the greatest. He did take an interest in Math once he started
college and he worked his way up until today he is a Math Major and a
Physics Minor. (and he even tutors math at the Community College) Go
figure. The [...]40_14Jul200814:23:32-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 4789 291 26_Re: elementary school math14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Jul 2008 18:13:13 -0700574_windows-1252 We've been using both Shiller and Singapore to get a balance between thrill and drill. Our mood dictates what we do and how much. I don't do Shiller while doing other things -- my kids need the feeling of total involvement to feel that something is fun. The point of Shiller is exploration and experiences and I need to "be present" for that. Singapore is drill that my kids do near me while I'm doing other things. We also integrate math into everything we do -- recipes, handing out crackers, cutting an apple, figuring out the discount at SeaWorld last [...]45_14Jul200818:13:13-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 5081 435 26_Re: elementary school math14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:27:34 -0700543_WINDOWS-1252 Hi Sharon,

To answer your specific questions about Shiller - no, I don't think that you
can do the dishes etc while they're working on this - there may be bits here
and there where you could do this. It really is a one-on-one curriculum -
the child is generally not reading the workbook - you are asking the
questions - most of the work is oral - but there is no lesson prep
required. But you really take it at your own pace, you could do one lesson
a day, or ten - anything from ten minutes and up. [...]39_14Jul200814:27:34-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 5517 149 41_Re: Successful Homeschool Family Handbook13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:05:34 -0700591_windows-1252 It's excellent, excellent, excellent!!  I was just thinking about this book yesterday, how very valuable it is.  The language is slightly more formal because of the age of the authors, but his perspective is extremely valuable.  He isn't trying to promote homeschooling because that's what his kids did and he needs to pat himself on the back.  He comes from a solidly based position of research, on what is best for kids.  His strong message of 'better late than early' (the title of one of his earlier books that is very worth reading for whoever can get it) is timeless [...]44_15Jul200812:05:34-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 5667 183 26_Re: elementary school math10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:45:11 +0300556_ISO-8859-1 sharon wrote:
>
>
>
>
> For those of you who use Shiller, is it something you can do while you
> wash dishes and cook dinner? (is that the level of attention it calls
> for?) Is it easy to start in the middle of the program, and avoid
> the material that your child already is comfortable with?
>
The learning is really designed to be one-on-one, and requires more
involvement than I could give while doing a chore, but it is thoroughly
scripted so there is no prep time. The lessons can be very short - [...]39_15Jul200820:45:11+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 5851 205 41_Re: Successful Homeschool Family Handbook13_Chava Burnham19_cyburnham@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:26:24 +0300621_WINDOWS-1252 Thanks for your feedback, Maklie and Avivah! I will definitely check
out their website.

-Chava

On Jul 15, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Avivah Werner wrote:

> It's excellent, excellent, excellent!! I was just thinking about
> this book yesterday, how very valuable it is. The language is
> slightly more formal because of the age of the authors, but his
> perspective is extremely valuable. He isn't trying to promote
> homeschooling because that's what his kids did and he needs to pat
> himself on the back. He comes from a solidly based position of
> research, on what [...]41_16Jul200807:26:24+0300cyburnham@GMAIL.COM 6057 53 17_Spelling Programs14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:02:08 -0700568_ISO-8859-1 Hi,

What recommendations do people have for spelling programs, and why do you
like them?

Thanks,

Gaby

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG
For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/39_15Jul200823:02:08-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 6111 328 26_Re: elementary school math6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:00:04 -0700549_us-ascii Thank you everyone for your thoughts on elementary math. Your suggestions
moved my thinking forward. I feel more comfortable with letting him
progress naturally and with games until I get my hands on material that
seems suitable. Does anyone know of good sources for used curricular
materials?

Sharon

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Sarah Kopp
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 10:45 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] elementary school math [...]45_16Jul200807:00:04-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 6440 147 26_Re: elementary school math10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 18:31:44 +0300642_ISO-8859-1 sharon wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of good sources for used curricular materials?
>

I did buy the Shiller math on ebay for about half the regular price.
While that doesn't entitle me to all the online support, they have given
me tech support when I had questions.

Sarah

Tsfat, Israel

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Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_16Jul200818:31:44+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 6588 59 15_Getting started15_[Rivkah Estrin]20_rivkahestrin@AOL.COM31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:14:13 -0400541_us-ascii This fall I want to add a little more structure to my day with the kids. Just a little. ;) My oldest will be 5 in September, and where we live she would be starting Pre-K 4. Up till now we have learned completely informally, we've been 100% child-led, and she is reading and?doing simple math - addition and subtraction. I was wondering what recommendations this group might have on some Judaic books to have on hand for the coming year. I want to get her a siddur (we have some photocopied sheets but it's time for a real kid [...]42_16Jul200812:14:13-0400rivkahestrin@AOL.COM 6648 42 19_Re: Getting started14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:30:32 -0500361_us-ascii Rivkah asked:
> I want to get her
> a siddur (we have some photocopied sheets
> but it's time for a real kid siddur) and maybe
> something to accompany the parsha? I'm not sure, so
> I'm open to ideas. Specific titles would be helpful.
> And some ideas of what you've all done with
> 5-year-olds would be appreciated as well. [...]42_16Jul200812:30:32-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 6691 116 11_todah rabah15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 10:50:24 -0700554_iso-8859-1 B"H

Chevra,

After 15 years of hschooling (including some high school for the 30 yr. old), my two youngest will be attending yeshiva this fall. My 13 year old son has wanted to for some time. His 10 year old sister decided to try a day there and was so excited when I picked her up, asking to attend also. Years ago I NEVER would have thought that I'd be feeling positive about this, but situations change and kids' needs do to. So while I am excited for their new adventure, my kids know we can always reevaluate and return [...]47_16Jul200810:50:24-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 6808 145 29_Fw: [TORCH-D] Getting started16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 14:17:17 -0400355_iso-8859-1 Hi Rivka

Re. projects: I keep a paper shopping bag in the corner of my kitchen, and, whenever we need a card for someone, or just a "little love" to put in a card or whatever to a relative, then I don't have to wait for inspiration to strike my 5 y/o ;). If she wants to, she can write a little on it, but, if not, that's okay too. [...]50_16Jul200814:17:17-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 6954 340 19_Re: Getting started12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:15:08 -0700540_iso-8859-1 Hi Rivkah - I'm not an expert but my oldest will be turning 6 IY"H this fall so I can share with you what we did last year. I did dub it her "Kindergarden' year for whatever that was worth.

Our main focus was really Parsha. I incorporated writing, Hebrew and English, into what we did. I used The Little Midrash Says to teach Parsha - really to tell the story of the Parsha. I didn't do any text with her because she couldn't read. She enjoyed listening to The Midrash Says. I emphasized the points that I wanted to. [...]41_16Jul200816:15:08-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 7295 112 19_Re: Getting started14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:43:45 -0700592_ISO-8859-1 HI Rivkah,

I would still definitely keep it unstructured at this age, but here are some
resources I use:

Firstly, go to www.chinuch.org - a database where teachers post worksheets,
projects, lessons etc which they have created. It's all free and it's an
amazing resource.

Call Torah U'Mesorah Publications on (718) 259-1223 and have them send you
their catalog. Unfortunately they don't have a website. They have some
project books for around the year and some other things you might be
interested in. They also have some great posters. [...]39_16Jul200811:43:45-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 7408 39 19_Re: Getting started11_Nechama Cox20_nechama@BOREALIS.COM31_Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:53:23 -0400335_us-ascii Gaby

>For Kesivah we use "Ktiv Nachon - Handwriting Workbook Volume 2" by
>Tifereth Publishing House (718) 851-0764. This is for script - I
>never taught my daughters to write in block - I don't see any point,
>as long as they can read it. I presume that Book 1 is block, but
>I've never seen it.
> [...]42_17Jul200810:53:23-0400nechama@BOREALIS.COM 7448 203 19_Re: Getting started6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:34:33 -0700679_us-ascii Thank you for recommending that davening CD. It seems like just the thing
we need!

Sharon

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Rena Weisman
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:15 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Getting started

For Davening, we Daven Nusach Chabad. I've always let my kids use 'real
Siddurs' because it helps them feel like adults and also they quickly learn
to navigate through the Siddur. We used the CD, "A New Day" which has the
entire Shacharis on it. Obviously, I choose which parts of Davening they do.
The CD has been the best investment [...]45_17Jul200808:34:33-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 7652 56 19_Re: Getting started10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Thu, 17 Jul 2008 17:12:58 +0300583_ISO-8859-1 [Rivkah Estrin] wrote:
> I want to get her a siddur (we have some photocopied sheets but it's
> time for a real kid siddur) and maybe something to accompany the parsha?
My 6yr old uses the My Siddur done by Chabad. It has a limited amount of
davening but is enough for us for the first couple of years. The kids
ages 3-10 enjoy a chumash story book called Parashat haShavuah lYeledei
Yisrael which is a 7 volume illustrated set with both descriptions of
what happens in each parasha and stories that are relevant to the
commandments that come [...]39_17Jul200817:12:58+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 7709 79 19_Re: Getting started6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 17 Jul 2008 20:54:15 -0600672_US-ASCII > Parashat haShavuah lYeledei
> Yisrael

> "HaParasha Meseperet Li"

Dear Sarah,

Can you please help me locate these to buy online? My searches came up
empty.

Thanks!

Shoshana Z.
Denver, CO

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For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/42_17Jul200820:54:15-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 7789 58 19_Re: Getting started12_Susan Warren16_psyslw@GWUMC.EDU31_Fri, 18 Jul 2008 07:15:07 -0400465_US-ASCII Yes, that CD looks very good to me. Where do you get it? Thanks, Susan

>>> sharon 07/17/08 11:34 AM >>>
Thank you for recommending that davening CD. It seems like just the thing
we need!

Sharon

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Rena Weisman
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:15 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Getting started [...]38_18Jul200807:15:07-0400psyslw@GWUMC.EDU 7848 78 19_Re: Getting started0_19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:23:43 -0400771_utf-8 Here is the link from Kehot on-line:

http://store.kehotonline.com/index.php?stocknumber=CD-NEWD&deptid=5791&parentid=10004&page=2&itemsperpage=10

Good Shabbos!
Rena W.

---- Susan Warren wrote:
> Yes, that CD looks very good to me. Where do you get it? Thanks, Susan
>
> >>> sharon 07/17/08 11:34 AM >>>
> Thank you for recommending that davening CD. It seems like just the thing
> we need!
>
> Sharon
>
>
>
> From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Rena Weisman
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:15 PM
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Getting started
>
>
>
> For Davening, we [...]41_18Jul200810:23:43-0400renaweisman@COX.NET 7927 44 19_Re: Getting started14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Fri, 18 Jul 2008 14:15:38 -0500383_us-ascii Ellen wrote:

> For 5 y/o we used "My
> Weekly Sidrah" by Melanie Berman. If you can get
> past the cover, which has girls in talleisim and
> kippot on it, it's a cute book. Def. read before
> you buy, though, b/c it might be "too cute" for you
> (I don't use Torah Tots b/c it's over my cuteness
> quotient....This is under, but not by a lot!) [...]42_18Jul200814:15:38-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 7972 132 19_Re: Getting started10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:14:36 +0300785_ISO-8859-1 I found these listings - the second one is quite expensive but it is a
completely laminated book (each page) and will really last.
> > Parashat haShavuah lYeledei Yisrael
http://www.judaism.com/seriesdisplay.asp?USN=410
>
> > "HaParasha Meseperet Li"
http://www.mytzadik.com/cat.asp?kid=855&safaid=6

>
> Dear Sarah,
>
> Can you please help me locate these to buy online? My searches came
> up empty.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Shoshana Z.
> Denver, CO
>
> __________ NOD32 3278 (20080718) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted [...]39_20Jul200809:14:36+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 8105 150 19_Re: Getting started10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Sun, 20 Jul 2008 09:33:57 +0300724_ISO-8859-1 >
>
> > "HaParasha Meseperet Li"
Here it is in English, but what a price!
http://www.nehora.com/index.cfm/product/5468_17/tell-me-the-story-of-the-parsha--5--volset-laminated-edition.cfm

This store does seem to have everything, in every language, but it has
the absolute worst search facility I have ever struggled with. They do
have a huge selection of Hopkowitz books, including a series of small $5
books on the tzaddikim, which I had not seen before. Anyway, you won't
find them by searching for "Hopkowitz," or the "Eternal Light Series" I
think I found them by Divine Intervention or something...ask for a
special order of these titles from your favorite bookstore [...]39_20Jul200809:33:57+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 8256 227 19_Re: Getting started12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:23:24 -0700466_iso-8859-1 > Parashat haShavuah lYeledei Yisrael

Israel Book Shop in Brookline, MA also has these. I'm waiting for a price. I'll share it once i get it.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sarah Kopp
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Getting started

I found these listings - the second one is quite expensive but it is a completely laminated book (each page) and will really last. [...]41_20Jul200808:23:24-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 8484 60 12_sleep advice11_Viva Hammer18_vivahammer@AOL.COM31_Wed, 23 Jul 2008 21:16:47 -0400497_us-ascii I am struggling to get my 10 yo son to sleep and I would really love advice from this group.

My son is a really easy, sweet boy.? He cooperates with going to sleep, but just cannot get to sleep on his own.? We have done all the trials:? lying down with him, not lying down with him, not eating late, nice bedtime routine, bath beforehand.? There's nothing we can do to get him to sleep on his own.? In fact, even when we fall asleep when we lie down with him, he stays awake! [...]40_23Jul200821:16:47-0400vivahammer@AOL.COM 8545 67 16_Re: sleep advice14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:25:26 -0500592_ISO-8859-1 My advice to you is to start him drinking heavily.
No, seriously. My daughter also was impossible to get to sleep as an
infant and now at 15 still has trouble.
You could try relaxation exercises. I remember these from school.
Start by flexing the toes and relaxing them, then the ankles, then the
leg etc etc. Try maybe also pushing the top of his head up against a
pillow. I still do this myself when I have trouble sleeping.
I am sure others will have better advice.
Hatzlocho raba.
Bill Bernstein
Nashville TN.
Viva Hammer wrote:
> I am [...]49_23Jul200820:25:26-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 8613 206 16_Re: sleep advice25_Dickman, Benjamin H (Ben)27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:23:35 -0500365_US-ASCII Viva,

My first reaction is to ask if you've taken him to a pediatrician
with experience in sleep disorders. If not, and you can't find one,
try to find your local sleep disorder clinic and see who they recommend.
This doesn't sound like a 'social' root cause, but something that
a knowlegdable, experienced physician can help with. [...]49_23Jul200820:23:35-0500bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM 8820 100 16_Re: sleep advice4_Rhea17_rhea_sc@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 23 Jul 2008 18:45:42 -0700298_iso-8859-1 My 11 yo son has that problem, too.  It is better now, We use chamomile tea and rescue remedy.  I have him relax in bed, give him the rescue remedy ,and put his tea to steep.  If we are lucky he falls asleep while waiting for the tea. 
 
Hope this helps a little
 
Rhea [...]39_23Jul200818:45:42-0700rhea_sc@YAHOO.COM 8921 101 16_Re: sleep advice6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:57:40 -0700731_us-ascii Yeah, this self-hypnosis/meditation method definitely helps for some.

Regarding waking early, however, can't you use black window shades?

Does he get drowsy if he reads by himself in bed?

I'd consider looking into a homeopathic remedy.

Was he succeeding with sleep at some point in the past and it became
elusive?

Anyway, b'hatzlachah!
Sharon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
> Behalf Of Bill Bernstein
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 6:25 PM
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] sleep advice
>
> My advice to you is to start him drinking heavily.
> No, seriously. [...]45_24Jul200800:57:40-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 9023 77 16_Re: sleep advice12_Kim Zipursky17_eema_kim@YAHOO.CA31_Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:26:47 -0700621_us-ascii Not that I've even sent my intro yet, but, hi!

I have had trouble sleeping since I was little (nightmares, sleepwalking, insomnia). I think the solution is highly individual, but the things that have helped me most are:
1) Resolving anxieties making it hard to relax
2) Controlling the sleep environment (use of white noise or earplugs, blackout curtains to delay the dawn, right temperature for me, comfy sleepwear).
3) No stimulants ~8 hours before bed.
4) Learning to relax body & mind systematically. Counting and such do nothing for me, it's learning to pursue a blank mind that did [...]39_24Jul200804:26:47-0700eema_kim@YAHOO.CA 9101 50 16_Re: sleep advice14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:47:04 -0400410_US-ASCII As someone who has struggled with insomnia for years (and have
researched it extensively), I would pursue a sleep specialist.
Sometimes light therapy can help as well as a tiny dose of melatonin
(under doctor's supervision). There are many causes and some kids and
adults just have sensitive sleep systems. Getting professional advice
is a good start.
Evelyn
>>
>>
>>> [...]40_24Jul200809:47:04-0400ek2000@COMCAST.NET 9152 56 16_Re: sleep advice14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:05:14 -0400414_US-ASCII what is "rescue remedy"?
Evelyn
On Jul 23, 2008, at 9:45 PM, Rhea wrote:

> My 11 yo son has that problem, too. It is better now, We use
> chamomile tea and rescue remedy. I have him relax in bed, give him
> the rescue remedy ,and put his tea to steep. If we are lucky he
> falls asleep while waiting for the tea.
>
>
> Hope this helps a little
>
>
> Rhea
> [...]40_24Jul200810:05:14-0400ek2000@COMCAST.NET 9209 168 26_Hi-new member introduction16_Rebecca Masinter19_rmasinter@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Jul 2008 15:01:00 -0400638_us-ascii Hi,

I'm Rebecca Masinter and my husband and I homeschool our three sons, ages
five, three and two. I am actually a second generation homeschooler as I
was taught at home from fifth through ninth grade. (My mother, Susan Lapin,
has been a member of Torch-D for a long time and frequently forwards me
interesting posts!) We live in Olney, Maryland, which is a small outreach
community between Baltimore and Silver Spring. Although we are the only
homeschoolers here our family has benefited greatly by being home and
learning together and we are excited to continue with kindergarten this
year. [...]41_24Jul200815:01:00-0400rmasinter@GMAIL.COM 9378 52 17_sleep - thank you11_Viva Hammer18_vivahammer@AOL.COM31_Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:47:19 -0400402_us-ascii I want to thank you all for your really helpful responses on the sleep issue.? There are many avenues I need to pursue.

I also wanted to say how appreciative I am of the generosity of the members of the group of their time and stored up information which they're so ready to share.? We are a model of the positives in a human community.? I wish we were also closer geographically! [...]40_25Jul200812:47:19-0400vivahammer@AOL.COM 9431 160 30_Re: Hi-new member introduction13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:11:42 -0700726_windows-1252 Welcome, Rebecca!  Nice to see you here.  :)
 
Avivah

Avivah Werner
Nurse 'n Go ™ Infant Feeding Pillows
“Real support for real moms”
http://vibrantmoms.com/blog/

--- On Thu, 7/24/08, Rebecca Masinter wrote:

From: Rebecca Masinter
Subject: [TORCH-D] Hi-new member introduction
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 3:01 PM

Hi,
 
I’m Rebecca Masinter and my husband and I homeschool our three sons, ages five, three and two.  I am actually a second generation homeschooler as I was taught at home from fifth through ninth grade.  (My mother, Susan Lapin, has been a member of Torch-D for a [...]44_26Jul200820:11:42-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 9592 93 16_Re: sleep advice8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:40:47 -0500437_ISO-8859-1 Our house is full of persons with sleep issues....can't get to sleep,
can't stay asleep, can't breathe properly while sleeping (OSA)
forgetting to breathe while sleeping (Central SA). All kinds of fun
stuff:)

Each sleep issue has a different solution, often a multi pronged
complex solution.

I would see a pediatrician, or sleep specialist, or whomever is
helpful for you and not dismissive. [...]40_28Jul200814:40:47-0500cillakat@GMAIL.COM 9686 254 30_Re: Hi-new member introduction10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM31_Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:05:16 -0400324_US-ASCII Hi Rebecca,

No we are not ignoring you. The whole list is made of lurkers. Once in a
while we find something that we just have to comment on and then we go back
into watch and wait mode.

Larry Beck

BTW, Yosef said he had a really nice time with you and Max on Shabbos. Thank
you. [...]41_28Jul200821:05:16-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 9941 59 20_Re: new member intro0_17_renalevin@AOL.COM31_Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:35:18 -0400597_us-ascii The whole list is made of lurkers. Once in a
while we find something that we just have to comment on and then we go back
into watch and wait mode.

Larry: You made my day!? I didn't even know you were still on this list! Nice to "see" you.

Rena in Baltimore

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_29Jul200808:35:18-0400renalevin@AOL.COM 10001 49 16_Re: sleep advice14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:24:23 -0500465_us-ascii My older son also had major sleep issues, which were
resolved by a tonsillectomy (for OSA). Surgery is no fun,
but in this case, it transformed our lives, much for the
better, B"H. It also solved my son's ADHD-like symptoms,
which turned out to be symptoms of sleep deprivation. And
he's growing like a weed now! What a relief. Sleep is so
incredibly important to general health, growth, development,
learning, Shalom Bayit, etc. [...]42_29Jul200812:24:23-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 10051 118 14_forget my post6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 29 Jul 2008 16:25:23 -0700539_us-ascii I suppose I was just venting and it's not appropriate for this forum.

Kol tuv

sharon

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG
For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/45_29Jul200816:25:23-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 10170 264 9_Is it me?6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 29 Jul 2008 12:02:00 -0700657_us-ascii I have a kvetch/question, and I figured there had to be somebody out there
who could understand, empathize, or offer brilliant advice.

Since we're homeschooling in LA, my dh has the challenge of providing for a
family of 6 with just his income. This includes the added pains of debt
from the past, high child-support costs, living in a (rented) home with a
yard in a nice Jewish neighborhood very expensive city, providing for our
transportation needs, our healthcare, fairly healthy (and very kosher) food
habits, and whatever costs are involved in otherwise providing for the
beautifully developing children (and [...]45_29Jul200812:02:00-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 10435 161 13_Re: Is it me?10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:11:37 +0300535_ISO-8859-1 sharon wrote:
>
> I don' want to be disrespectful to them, and I so appreciate every way
> they've helped us ever. I'm sure they have great wisdom about running
> a home and life that I have yet to acquire. But it is sooooo tiring
> having to defend our choices and my husband's money situation to them
> every single time they visit. And I really dread when they feel a
> need to pull him aside and lecture him even after I've made it clear
> that I don't want them to.
>
>
>
>
[...]39_30Jul200817:11:37+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 10597 269 13_Re: Is it me?10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 21:18:34 +0400488_ISO-8859-1 Sharon,

I think that dealing with parents/in-laws/friends/others who question our
lifestyle choices is a fairly common issue in homeschooling families, though
it crops up in other situations as well, of course. And I don't consider it
off-topic :-)

I would strongly suggest prepping yourselves before the next visit, so that
instead of trying to defend your choices or explain your methods, your goal
is to make them feel like you heard them. [...]42_30Jul200821:18:34+0400fox.louise@GMAIL.COM 10867 323 13_Re: Is it me?0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:38:14 +0000398_- I think there are three ways of dealing with this. And it comes up a lot.
1)Like Louise says, nod your head vigorously and then go back to doing what you want.
2) Confront the issue and say "I appreciate your concern but I think we'll do it this way. And your suggestions make us feel like we're incompetent. When we want advice we'll ask."
3) Not printable on a family list-serve. [...]49_30Jul200820:38:14+0000billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 11191 166 13_Re: Is it me?6_B Mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 08:23:06 -0700605_ISO-8859-1 There are lots of different approaches you can take with this. I really
like the one that asks the parents for their story. ---What they thought it
would be like when they were first starting out. The reality. The
obstacles. How much help did they want from their families. . Did they
get or want help from their parents. How did they receive the help offered.
How their vision changed along the way. Looking back, what was important to
them. Do they feel that they were successful? What were their
disappointments. What could they have lived without. What would they [...]40_30Jul200808:23:06-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 11358 595 13_Re: Is it me?15_Borisute Family18_borisute@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:21:25 -0400381_us-ascii I hope you don't mind me commenting.

I don't really get it, but even after having 6 children, parents (of
parents) sometimes feel they need to have control over their childrens
lives. Amazing. Instead of patting themselves on their back and shepping
nachas ad infinitum, and playing bridge, they are kvetching at you.
Unfortunately this is common. [...]40_30Jul200811:21:25-0400borisute@GMAIL.COM 11954 213 13_Re: Is it me?14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 14:51:21 -0700568_iso-8859-7 I think a lot here depends on the personality of the parents involved. From my own experience with parents and grandparents, I deal with the following types: 1. The one who always has some criticism and complaint about the situation, and always sees the negative. They may not always share the view with you, but it is never really positive. He/she never feels your job pays well enough (even when he/she doesn't know how much it pays), always think your bosses overwork you or you take unnecessary work on . . . (this week my son got glasses and went [...]45_30Jul200814:51:21-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 12168 58 9_Is it me?16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:03:45 -0400487_us-ascii Louise
You asked for something ingenious to reply to your inlaws.

I think all the advise given till now is good.

However if you accept that your in-laws think differently then your
response to them should be focused on "speaking their language."

The last few months there has been alot of discussion on what curricula
to use etc. This is what is "different" about home-schooling today. There
is alot out there that is written and complete. [...]39_30Jul200820:03:45-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 12227 102 13_Re: Is it me?14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 17:09:52 -0700585_ISO-8859-1 I really agree with what Nava said. Speaking from experiences in my own
family, you need to defend your spouse, in this case your husband, and not
let your parents keep beating him up. Your first allegiance is to your
husband, while being respectful towards your parents. You seem to have
great shalom bayis, don't test your husband's patience, there's only so much
that a man can take. He needs to feel like (and be) a man (the protector
and provider), you should not allow him to be put in the position where he
is having to choose between being [...]39_30Jul200817:09:52-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 12330 773 19_Re: Getting started15_Borisute Family18_borisute@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 22:51:17 -0400526_us-ascii Rena what age would you say the Cd A new day was aimed at?

Thanks

nava

_____

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Rena Weisman
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:15 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Getting started

Hi Rivkah - I'm not an expert but my oldest will be turning 6 IY"H this
fall so I can share with you what we did last year. I did dub it her
"Kindergarden' year for whatever that was worth. [...]40_30Jul200822:51:17-0400borisute@GMAIL.COM 13104 769 19_Re: Getting started12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Wed, 30 Jul 2008 20:51:56 -0700495_iso-8859-1 My oldest started listening to it during her "quiet time" when she gave up her nap around 2 3/4 yrs old. Since the Chazan sings in a very clear way, she picked up a lot of the Davening just from listening to it.

I didn't start using it in the mornings until she was about 4 1/2. A year later, she knows all the words to the parts of Davening that I let it play through (all of Shacharis until Baruch She'amer, then we skip to Ashrei, then Shema, then Aleinu and Al Tira). [...]41_30Jul200820:51:56-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 13874 134 13_Re: Is it me?10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:43:20 +0300392_ISO-8859-1 Russell,

I don't understand. I did not ask for anything ingenious to reply to my
inlaws.
Perhaps something I wrote was unclear. Perhaps you are replying to someone
else's post....

I have a very good relationship with my inlaws, and we UNschool! -- I would
never consider "school-at-home".

In short, I don't know what you are talking about !!! [...]42_31Jul200808:43:20+0300fox.louise@GMAIL.COM 14009 1203 19_Re: Getting started15_Borisute Family18_borisute@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:16:02 -0400520_us-ascii Yes thank you.

Where could I buy it?

Nava

_____

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Rena Weisman
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:52 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Getting started

My oldest started listening to it during her "quiet time" when she gave up
her nap around 2 3/4 yrs old. Since the Chazan sings in a very clear way,
she picked up a lot of the Davening just from listening to it. [...]40_31Jul200809:16:02-0400borisute@GMAIL.COM 15213 94 13_Re: Is it me?0_17_renalevin@AOL.COM31_Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:38:06 -0400342_us-ascii I am on digest, so I get things late but wanted to weigh in on this very important topic.

I think that the advice given has been good. Especially the comments about asking them lots of questions and having them tell their story. Turning the conversation around is important, gets the focus off of you and back onto them! [...]39_31Jul200809:38:06-0400renalevin@AOL.COM 15308 302 19_Re: Getting started0_19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:02:08 -0400722_utf-8 Here is the link for Kehot.com

http://store.kehotonline.com/index.php?stocknumber=CD-NEWD&deptid=5791&parentid=10004&page=2&itemsperpage=10

---- Borisute Family wrote:
> Yes thank you.
>
> Where could I buy it?
>
> Nava
>
> _____
>
> From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
> Rena Weisman
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:52 PM
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Getting started
>
>
>
> My oldest started listening to it during her "quiet time" when she gave up
> her nap around 2 3/4 yrs old. Since the Chazan sings in a very clear way,
> she picked up a lot of [...]41_31Jul200810:02:08-0400renaweisman@COX.NET 15611 519 13_Re: Is it me?6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:56:55 -0700530_us-ascii Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts with me on this challenging
subject. I was sorry I submitted my post until I got all the great advice.
While I can see that something in my wording must have misled readers about
some of the details, it doesn't matter. I think your responses were all so
helpful in the general parent/grown child relationship. It so amazes me
that everyone can relate so well to some part of what I'm saying. What a
nice reward for being part of an online community! [...]45_31Jul200807:56:55-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 16131 122 13_Re: Is it me?10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL30_Fri, 1 Aug 2008 00:39:49 +0300583_ISO-8859-1 renalevin@AOL.COM wrote:
> The advice to get them to tell their story is terrific because it
> brings you closer to each other, focuses on the things that you do
> have in common, defusing anxiety, tension and stress.
>
>
I just want to add a qualifier to the above. It may work with some
parents but I am sure it would be devastating with others, who will take
an opportunity like that to put the son-in-law in as bad a light as
possible by comparing their own "better" choices and efforts. Personally
I would never open potential bomb [...]38_1Aug200800:39:49+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL 16254 123 13_Re: Is it me?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 31 Jul 2008 19:20:36 -0700553_windows-1252 I wrote a long post responding to this a couple of days ago but it didn't go through, and I took it as a sign that the details weren't meant to be read.  But I do want to now strongly agree with Sarah on this.  I've found it most effective to disengage and be politely respectful, limiting our discussion on these topics as much as possible.  I've had a lot of experience trying a lot of approaches over the years, and clearly setting boundaries while remaining polite (and superficial on these hot topics) is what works best for us.  [...]44_31Jul200819:20:36-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 16378 43 9_Is it me?16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:27:18 -0400502_us-ascii Louise / Sharon

Louise My Humble apologies. I saw the issue, read a few postings, and
took the name of the earliest posting which was you thinking you posted
(Sharon's posting was much earlier). I am glad you have a happy
relationship with your inlaws

Sharon: The posting was meant for you and your inlaws or parents. I think
you can do more than smile. I think you can show how technology has
changed things and home schooling is alot like school schooling. [...]39_31Jul200822:27:18-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM