1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d June 2008 2 222 15_Re: Curriculums12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Sat, 31 May 2008 21:56:10 -0700556_iso-8859-1 Sigal, thanks.

Can you tell me why you supplement the Shiller program?

Thanks!
Rena W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sigal Gottlieb
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Curriculums

Shavua Tov!

I am very happy with Shiller math together with Singapore math. The combination has worked very well for us.

Singapore is not expensive, Shiller is -- but you can buy only the books from their website and then buy manipulatives
elsewhere. [...]41_31May200821:56:10-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 225 176 15_Re: Curriculums14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 1 Jun 2008 05:20:48 -0700505_us-ascii Hi Rena,

When I bought the Shiller program, there were no supplementary materials for "drill"
purposes, and my kids love workbooks! The Shiller program is amazing for discovery and concept,
but we needed the (more boring and less inspiring, more technical) Singapore program to give
us the practice we needed. A plus of the Singapore is that it allows them to work independently at times --
they can figure it all out on their own for the times they don't want me around. [...]44_1Jun200805:20:48-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 402 284 15_Re: Curriculums14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG30_Sun, 1 Jun 2008 01:24:14 -0700596_ISO-8859-1 Hi Rena,

We also use Shiller and supplement a bit with worksheets (not much) - just
because Shiller does not include any worksheets at all. Shiller is
expensive, but when you calculate that the kit lasts for multiple years and
for multiple children (you get free downloads for 5 years with the kit
purchase) - it's very reasonable - certainly compared to other full
curricula. I would say it is well worth the cost. My girls absolutely love
the program - I am so glad we went with it. The only downside (for some
people) is that it requires one-on-one [...]38_1Jun200801:24:14-0700ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 687 81 24_Vote for Yaldah Magazine14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 8 Jun 2008 18:20:49 -0400614_US-ASCII My daughter,Leah Larson, is a finalist for the Idea Cafe small
business grant. Leah is the editor and publisher of Yaldah Magazine,
a magazine for Jewish girls, by Jewish Girls. She started it 4 years
ago when she was only 13. Since then the magazine has grown and
inspired Jewish girls of all backgrounds around the globe. Leah has
featured contributions from homeschoolers as well as articles on
homeschooling. Please help her continue to be able to finance this
publication by voting for her on the idea cafe website site before
June 22. It just takes a minute to register [...]39_8Jun200818:20:49-0400ek2000@COMCAST.NET 769 183 28_Re: Vote for Yaldah Magazine25_Dickman, Benjamin H (Ben)27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 19 Jun 2008 13:23:39 -0500810_US-ASCII Evelyn,

A very interesting site for entrepeneurs.
It took a while for me to find the voting webpage:

http://www.businessownersideacafe.com/small_business_grants/grant_vote.p
hp

Success to your family!
Benzion Dickman

________________________________

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG]
On Behalf Of Evelyn Krieger
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 6:21 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] Vote for Yaldah Magazine

My daughter,Leah Larson, is a finalist for the Idea Cafe small
business grant. Leah is the editor and publisher of Yaldah Magazine, a
magazine for Jewish girls, by Jewish Girls. She started it 4 years ago
when she was only 13. Since then the magazine has grown and inspired
[...]49_19Jun200813:23:39-0500bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM 953 89 19_Camp Mogain Avraham14_Sarah Oeschger24_sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 06:38:10 -0700452_iso-8859-1 Hi there,

Do you know about camp Mogain Avraham in N.Y.? I would like as much info. as possible b/c someone in the community here reccomended that I send my now 7 y.o. to the month long sleep over camp next summer. A MONTH seems like a long time for a child of 7-8 or even 9 to be away from home. I'm not sure that this place is as frum as I would be comfortable with but maybe I'm way out in left field. SO, I'm writing you :o) [...]46_24Jun200806:38:10-0700sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM 1043 100 4_camp15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 07:57:47 -0700395_iso-8859-1 B"H

Sarah,

I'd really ask you to reconsider sending such a young child away for a month regardless of the level of frumkeit the camp maintains. It could be very traumatic, especially for a homeschooled child who has much stronger attachments to his parents and siblings. Personally, I wouldn't consider it before middle school. Maybe you could make your own camp:) [...]47_24Jun200807:57:47-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 1144 65 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham0_19_BurnesFamily@CS.COM29_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 11:03:09 EDT319_US-ASCII My brother was a counselor there, at least two of my nephews went there. My
brother is very frum, so he would not be sending his son there if the camp
wasn't frum, but everybody has their own translation of what frum enough is. It
definitely was more to the right than the camp I sent my son to. [...]39_24Jun200811:03:09EDTBurnesFamily@CS.COM 1210 66 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham14_Hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:08:37 -0700555_iso-8859-1 what an appropriate topic for me to read today....as Im in the middle of a total Freak OUT at the idea that I really Accepted to let my 11 year old daughter , who never even went to a sleepover( she Wants to go...I should add)  to go to Camp Emunah, in New York..i think its in the Catskills....she would leave this sunday and its for a MONTH....and Im so worried about the whole thing...she'll be traveling with a mother and her daughter, one of my daughter's classmates...but its All new territory for me..and I dont come from a culture [...]42_24Jun200809:08:37-0700hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET 1277 63 20_Shiurim in Baltimore0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:43:58 +0000373_- Hi,
A question for all the Baltimore people here (all two of you).
My daughter is again spending the summer working in a camp there. I would dearly like her to attend a regular women's shiur, maybe on Shabbos. But I don't know anyplace and my in-laws have enough with a baby etc.
Any help would be appreciated, off list.
Thanks and KT,
Bill Bernstein [...]49_24Jun200816:43:58+0000billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1341 396 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:16:32 -0700588_us-ascii I went to overnight camp when I was 8 because my parents were going to
Israel that summer and needed to find something for me. While I had fun and
wasn't traumatized, I don't feel I got anything valuable from the
experience, either. The only people I know who benefited from going so
young were kids who sent to the same camp every summer for 8 years. They
enjoyed starting forming friendships early. I can also say I felt
repeatedly disconcerted when confronted with all the differences between
camp life and home life at that age. It didn't seem like [...]45_24Jun200810:16:32-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 1738 73 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham0_19_BurnesFamily@CS.COM29_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 12:58:16 EDT423_US-ASCII As I said before, I started going to overnight camp (Camp Bais Yaakov in the
Catskills) from about age 8 till 16. Most summers I went for both trips. I had
a blast. I also had never been on a sleepover before I started going to
overnight camp. It's also a great sign that she asked to go. When I went to camp,
only the girls who were forced to go (or pressured) were the ones who got
homesick. [...]39_24Jun200812:58:16EDTBurnesFamily@CS.COM 1812 67 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:49:41 +0300482_ISO-8859-1 I went to sleep away camp when I was five years old, and it was wonderful
for me. But then, I went with the family member that I was most attached to,
my sister.

That being said, while my 10 yo might be fine going away for about 10 days
but not a full month. Regardless. he is very used to structuring his own
time and I think being in a situation such as summer camp where arbitrary
authority reigned would be a Kafkaesque experience for him. [...]40_24Jun200819:49:41+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM 1880 424 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham15_Borisute Family18_borisute@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:06:53 -0400303_US-ASCII Hi Hadas

My 12 year old daughter is going to camp emunah, but she's going second
month. There are a lot of girls who go from out of town. I have a really
wonderful neighbor who is going to be in VIPs she is going into 8th grade
and I could get them in touch if that helps. [...]40_24Jun200816:06:53-0400borisute@GMAIL.COM 2305 82 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:05:49 +0300347_ISO-8859-1 I think if a child actively wants to go to camp, then it's fine, as long as
the child has a way to contact their parents (eg cellphone or payphone) that
they can access freely and call whenever *they* want, ie not under the
control of the counsellors who may want to dissuade a child from calling
home to be fetched... [...]42_25Jun200800:05:49+0300fox.louise@GMAIL.COM 2388 70 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham14_Hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 24 Jun 2008 15:20:13 -0700462_us-ascii i heard at the camp my daughter will be going to..that they are not allowed to have their cellphones...which im a bit uneasy about..just because ill be so far away..and want her to be able to reach me...or anyone for emergency...Has v halila.......Hadas

----- Original Message ----
From: Louise Fox
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:05:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Camp Mogain Avraham [...]42_24Jun200815:20:13-0700hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET 2459 214 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Wed, 25 Jun 2008 10:06:42 -0700623_ISO-8859-1 I couldn't have a cell phone when I went to camp, either. ;)

Hadas laureano wrote:
> i heard at the camp my daughter will be going to..that they are not
> allowed to have their cellphones...which im a bit uneasy about..just
> because ill be so far away..and want her to be able to reach me...or
> anyone for emergency...Has v halila.......Hadas
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Louise Fox
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 2:05:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Camp Mogain Avraham
>
> I think if a child actively [...]41_25Jun200810:06:42-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM 2674 216 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham24_Silvert Torah Homeschool26_torahhomeschool@CSINET.NET31_Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:29:04 -0500577_us-ascii B"H

Also at Sternberg in the Catskills, they're not allowed their
cellphones. My girls know that a lot of these school like rules are
"necessary evils." I also WANT them to be able to call me ANYTIME if
they need to...therefore, I recommend to them that they keep their
phones off, and secreted away in their things. I encourage them to
go thru the proper "channels" to call me if they feel the need, and
if they are DENIED this, and still strongly feel they MUST call home,
they can do so on their cell with MY permission. While this [...]48_25Jun200816:29:04-0500torahhomeschool@CSINET.NET 2891 136 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham28_Jamie Rosenblum Lichtenstein25_JROSENBL@HSPH.HARVARD.EDU31_Wed, 25 Jun 2008 17:57:01 -0400362_US-ASCII I've chaperoned synagogue weekend trips and we ask that the kids don't bring cell phones (although many do). Unfortunately some kids use them to access stuff they shouldn't on the internet, etc. and call people other than parents. I was also taught as a camp counselor that calling home makes kids more home sick (though I've never seen the data). [...]47_25Jun200817:57:01-0400JROSENBL@HSPH.HARVARD.EDU 3028 164 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham15_Borisute Family18_borisute@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 25 Jun 2008 20:26:38 -0400519_us-ascii About cell phones: sometimes its just a pain to call from a payphone because
of clarity, cost, and convenience. Perhaps you can give it in and ask to
have access to it, once or twice a week just to call home from it.

Nava Borisute

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Jamie Rosenblum Lichtenstein
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 5:57 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Camp Mogain Avraham [...]40_25Jun200820:26:38-0400borisute@GMAIL.COM 3193 181 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham14_Hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 26 Jun 2008 00:07:19 -0700590_iso-8859-1 yes......this issue is not new...i have also this problem in the school..that she is not allowed to have her cellphone even in her backpack, turned off......yet after she leaves..i need her to be able to call me......and its always this conflict of not wanting to encourage your child in any way to break the rules...yet.......somehow..you need her to be able to reach you......
now that she is going to camp...she is 11 ...its the same thing....i know she has to turn it in to the office..yet i wish she could call me when she needed to........!!! Hadas Laureano in los [...]42_26Jun200800:07:19-0700hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET 3375 55 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:33:24 -0700586_ISO-8859-1 We were able to call our parents back in the day before cell phones
existed. Now that cell phones are so pervasive in our lifestyle, we
can't see how one could possibly do without them. But we, as kids, did
just fine.

Hadas laureano wrote:
> yes......this issue is not new...i have also this problem in the school..that she is not allowed to have her cellphone even in her backpack, turned off......yet after she leaves..i need her to be able to call me......and its always this conflict of not wanting to encourage your child in any way to break the [...]41_26Jun200810:33:24-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM 3431 173 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:10:18 -0700583_windows-1252 I personally don't send kids to sleepaway camp until they are 12.  Until then, they don't have the social maturity to deal with the peer pressures in a consistently responsible and dependable way (and my kids are very mature for their ages).  I would never send a child who is 7 or 8 away for such a long time - especially if you have a reasonably functional home life.  The potential for negative peer influence is very high and the benefits are marginal.
 
Regarding the comments below about cell phones and camp rules, I find this very disturbing.  I have [...]44_27Jun200810:10:18-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 3605 37 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham11_Nechama Cox20_nechama@BOREALIS.COM31_Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:46:04 -0400456_us-ascii Two of my sons are going to Mogen Av this summer. Last summer my then
11 year old went and had a great time. This year the 12 year old and
10 year old are going. I think they are both ready, but the 10 year
old would not be as comfortable going without his older brother. Plus
a good friend of the family will be there at the same time (the whole
family, parents and all the kids) working. So he has that extra
familiarity. [...]42_27Jun200813:46:04-0400nechama@BOREALIS.COM 3643 115 8_magen av15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:42:47 -0700316_iso-8859-1 B'H

Aviva, I had the same thoughts regarding hiding the cell phones, but I didn't want to start something. I'm chiding myself for my reticence. We always need to be aware of the messages we send our children and that is sending a strong message of dishonesty and lack of regard for authority. [...]47_27Jun200812:42:47-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 3759 193 23_Re: Camp Mogain Avraham15_Miriam Schwartz16_gitvob@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:38:08 -0700550_windows-1252 I am so glad you said that, Avivah! I am sending my daughter for the first time to Sternberg this summer (she is turning twelve) and I was starting to wonder if I was being a fool requiring my daughter to adhere to camp rules! I agree that if our children aren't ready to commit to a month without speaking to their parents at every whim maybe they really aren't ready to be sent. Part of making our children adults who can function well in society is preparing them for a world in which integrity and discipline are essential. Our [...]38_27Jun200812:38:08-0700gitvob@YAHOO.COM