1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d April 2008
2 147 24_Re: Curriculum for Rashi16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:49:18 -0400529_us-ascii Hi
From time to time on this group I mention my Rashi publications which can
be used as a basis for a curriculum for teaching Rashi. I actually spent
2 years of home schooling and wrote 400 pages of materials before
starting on my Rashi project.
This email will mention how to use my materials for rashi curriculum I
emphasize that I have successfully used this on all age groups (5-15 and
older). It works. Anyone who wants to try it should feel free to contact
me off list or on list. [...]38_1Apr200820:49:18-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM
150 65 18_Sonlight questions14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:12:31 +0300445_ISO-8859-1 After defending unschooling on this list, I am sheepishly asking for help
with information about Sonlight for Jewish families. I am all about
customization, co-creating a framework with your child, etc, and then the
new Sonlight catalog came in the mail and somehow, Core 5 *is* exactly what
my ds and I love and enjoy and it's what we would put together! We were
reading the book descriptions totally enthralled. [...]40_17Apr200823:12:31+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
216 80 22_Re: Sonlight questions13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:54:03 -0700570_iso-8859-1 I can't believe you're asking this right before Pesach, Malkie! Don't you have anything left to do for yom tov?!?
>>How difficult is it to remove the xtian content? How do you substitute (if at all) Jewish learning resources?<<
I have the instructor's manual for Core 5, and a couple of years ago we kind of followed their suggestions. We got looser and looser as the year went on, as I had a clear idea of what Sonlight was about and how I could best customize it for us. Core 5 is the most religious of all the cores (missionary/outreach [...]44_17Apr200814:54:03-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
297 62 22_Re: Sonlight questions6_Dahlia20_dahlia42@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 18 Apr 2008 02:02:02 +0000454_- Malkie,
We tried to use Sonlight for a few weeks. It was frustrating for my kids because Sonlight parcels things out slowly (i.e., on Monday, read pages 1-10 of book A, 56-79 of book B, etc...). My kids would rather take things in in large sized chunks (we're really relaxed eclectic kind of HSers). I was also frustrated because much of the first year language arts (which is not what you're thinking of using) was VERY x-tian in content. [...]42_18Apr200802:02:02+0000dahlia42@COMCAST.NET
360 83 22_Re: Sonlight questions15_Miriam Schwartz16_gitvob@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:53:27 -0700452_us-ascii I also recommend the Well Trained Mind, which gives some great ideas for creating a 4 day school week. We use a cross between the Robinson Curriculum and the Well Trained Mind. The Well Trained Mind gives us a great book list and ideas for organising our week. I know that at least according to Popular Homeschooling (whose readership, it's true, is mostly Christian), Sonlight is very popular, so there must be something to the program. [...]38_17Apr200822:53:27-0700gitvob@YAHOO.COM
444 45 26_Guilt re: community school15_Miriam Schwartz16_gitvob@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:16:58 -0700310_us-ascii Has anyone been pressured to send to the community school b/c it needs more religious kids to build itself up? Although I am really happy homeschooling, I feel like a heel not helping the school out. Does anyone have any idea of how I can help the community school without sending my kids there? [...]38_17Apr200823:16:58-0700gitvob@YAHOO.COM
490 383 22_Re: Sonlight questions5_susan19_suelap7@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:12:44 -0700571_us-ascii Can you tell that I am not making Pesach this year? Here it is Friday
afternoon and I have time to answer this.
I used Sonlight when I had only one child left Homeschooling (down from 7).
It was one of the best years we ever had. We did the one on American history
and the only Christian content I remember was the Bible study which we
ignored. I did browse the secular Sonlight list occasionally but I don't
remember any problems. (This was 4 years ago, so I may be forgetting
something, but there certainly wasn't a big problem). [...]41_18Apr200815:12:44-0700suelap7@COMCAST.NET
874 155 30_Re: Guilt re: community school14_Sarah Oeschger24_sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 18 Apr 2008 17:41:36 -0700449_iso-8859-1 Maybe by supporting fund-raisers and the like? I think I understand the pressure you are feeling. There is a similar situation here too. However, the school here is not one I want to support in any way..
A kosher and happy Pesach!
Sarah in AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: Miriam Schwartz
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 11:16 PM
Subject: [TORCH-D] Guilt re: community school [...]46_18Apr200817:41:36-0700sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM
1030 135 22_Re: Sonlight questions15_Rachel Gurevich25_rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:09:53 +0300508_ISO-8859-1 Malkie,
I can't speak for Core 5 (I suggest joining the secular sonlight group on
yahoo, as they can tell you which cores are more or less xitian. I know
there is at least one core they said is really full of xtian stuff), but I
can tell you what our experience has been with Core 1. Menachem and Eliezer
are age 6 and 8, so we do the Core together. (We don't have the problem of
doing more than one Core at a time.) And they/we LOVE it. It works out
perfect for us. [...]47_21Apr200815:09:53+0300rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM
1166 164 30_Re: Guilt re: community school14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Apr 2008 16:38:13 +0300504_ISO-8859-1 To be honest, I handled the pressure by leaving. I don't want people looking
at my children as chair-warmers, class-size enhancers, or budget-enlargers,
or anything else.
I find as a homeschooler that it is best to live in a community with no
school in the immediate area or in a place that has so many schools that no
one starts looking at my kids as though they are the reason that things
aren't as good as they could be in the one community school that there is. [...]40_22Apr200816:38:13+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
1331 78 22_Re: Sonlight questions14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:05:45 +0300550_ISO-8859-1 Thank you for all the support and ideas. My kids have been asking for more
structure, and while I adore Charlotte Mason, I want to... well, I want to
open a book and have everything planned out for me. At least, up to a point.
:)
Avivah-- I was done with my tasks for Thursday, so I had some free time.
Thanks for the heads up about Robinson. I hadn't considered it, and I'll
look into it. The truth is, my ds wants the parent-intensive time, and it is
clear it would be to his benefit (and the littles ones, [...]40_22Apr200817:05:45+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
1410 64 22_Re: Sonlight questions6_Dahlia20_dahlia42@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:44:06 +0000312_- Malkie,
Good luck with whatever you choose. I just wanted to throw in one more plug for WTM because we are as close to unschoolers as you can get without totally eschewing curriculum & it works for us. Here are a few of my favorite ideas from it, which you could incorporate into anything you use: [...]42_22Apr200814:44:06+0000dahlia42@COMCAST.NET
1475 74 29_Re: mishnayos? (was sonlight)0_17_renalevin@AOL.COM31_Thu, 24 Apr 2008 00:18:35 -0400659_us-ascii Malkie, you mentioned a mishnayos program (below), can you tell me more about this? web site, ordering info, cost, etc?
thanks.
Rena in Baltimore
(experiencing Yom Tov in Toronto)
I suspect that I will be modifying anything I
use heavily (you should see what I've done to Rabbi Hayman's Mishna program)
,
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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_24Apr200800:18:35-0400renalevin@AOL.COM
1550 62 29_Re: mishnayos? (was sonlight)6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 24 Apr 2008 06:23:51 -0600505_ISO-8859-1 I am also interested. Can anyone elaborate on how to ³learn Mishnayos² with
a child? I never did it myself and feel at a loss as to where to start.
Moed Tov!
Shoshana Z.
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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_24Apr200806:23:51-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET
1613 112 29_Re: mishnayos? (was sonlight)14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:58:00 +0300674_ISO-8859-1 We use this program:
http://vshinantam.com/index.php
Here is more information on the theory and methodology:
http://www.daatdorot.com/index_e.php
We are still in the first year, and it is an excellent program. Just the
songs on the CD are worth their weight in gold. Since we have reworked the
presentation ds and I are enjoying it very much (there was a rough patch in
there where we were trying to use the materials as-is).The major change I
made was in changing the presentation from a frontal conventional teaching
method to a guided discovery method, which is much more suitable for our
learning style (and [...]40_24Apr200818:58:00+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
1726 97 29_Re: mishnayos? (was sonlight)13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 24 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700320_iso-8859-1 I didn't see any prices on the website, and on a cursory reading, it looks like they want to work through the schools. What did you buy, how much was it, and how did you approach them as to using it for your family?
Avivah
Malkie Swidler wrote:
We use this program: [...]44_24Apr200810:56:27-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
1824 310 29_Re: mishnayos? (was sonlight)14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:02:32 +0300441_WINDOWS-1252 I was a student of R' Hayman's back at Matan some years ago, and I
approached him at a lecture he gave in Ra'anana. He is very
pro-homeschooling, and is more than happy to work with homeschoolers (which
is why I think he'll be amenable to reworking the program for us). He gave
me the phone number of his employee, Rachel, who is very easy to work with.
E-mail them, and tell them I sent you, I suppose.. :) [...]40_24Apr200823:02:32+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
2135 39 14_Re: Mishnayoth16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:51:42 -0400647_us-ascii Just a quick thought on Malkie's observation that she likes the
mishnayoth program because it "prepares her son for the tribulations of
the outside world."
If your goal is to prepare for dealing with the outside world then I
wouldn't on a first attempt use Mishnayoth (however good). I would
instead use Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch's writings. Rav Hirsch
specifically wrote "The 19 letters" and "Chorev" to enable people to deal
with the outside world. Rav Hirsch is considered the founder of Modern
Orthodoxy. To the extent that we are Modern Orthodox we should read from
the source!
Personally my [...]39_24Apr200820:51:42-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM
2175 130 14_Re: Mishnayoth14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:10:47 +0300364_ISO-8859-1 Russell,
Upon rereading my e-mail, I see that I was not clear in my writing. As a
result, we are talking about two different "outside worlds". You read my
words to understand the outside, Western world, and I totally agree that R'
Hirsch is a must read and some of his works are on our shelf, waiting for ds
to mature (he's 10). [...]40_25Apr200813:10:47+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
2306 2295 13_Re: mishnayos0_17_renalevin@AOL.COM31_Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:15:00 -0400423_utf-8 Malkie: thanks for the info, i did not yet have a chance to look at the links (not at home, not my computer, can't take a lot of time!). sounds very interesting.
one question: you mention that this is a school program created for israeli schools. seeing as that is the case, are the instruction books, etc in Hebrew or in English? cuz right there, homeschool edition would need to be translated...... [...]39_25Apr200809:15:00-0400renalevin@AOL.COM
4602 167 30_Re: Guilt re: community school15_Miriam Schwartz16_gitvob@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:14:08 -0700591_us-ascii Actually, we are here from Israel temporarily, and I think I just have to adjust to disappointing some people in the community. Volunteering to do groups some weeks is a great idea, and we are in the process of trying to do just that!
I must say, as a first year homeschooler, I feel so liberated that my kids can learn in an intellectually honest way without the brainwashing that I endured (at a pretty decent frum girls' school) for years and years. Unfortunately, I see so many religious adults today, who, although well meaning, have confused halacha with hashkafa [...]38_29Apr200800:14:08-0700gitvob@YAHOO.COM
4770 26 44_Re: Guilt and giving advice to the community16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:59:52 -0400421_us-ascii Miriam
You ask how to give advice to the community. Simply you can share your
ideas about hypocrosy; you can ask parents if they want their children
growing up like that; you can ask what curriculum changes they want in
their schools and possibly make some suggestions. If enough parents want
certain hypocrosies exposed or removed from the curriculum they can
effect a change.
Russell [...]39_30Apr200819:59:52-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM
4797 59 44_Re: Guilt and giving advice to the community13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:01:58 -0700613_iso-8859-1 My personal experience is, no one wants to listen to a self-righteous parent telling them why everything they're doing is wrong. But once people see your lifestyle working for you, they'll approach you. When they're coming to you, they're generally open and receptive to your point of view.
It may seem less direct, but change truly begjns with ourselves and our families, and spreads outward in concentric circles. I don't feel the need to tell anyone how to do anything, though I've had a number of very interesting conversations with people in the community. I did once write an article [...]44_30Apr200820:01:58-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM