1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d March 2008 2 25 31_Adoption/homeschooling/beis din13_Kerith Earlix17_kerith@EARLIX.COM30_Wed, 5 Mar 2008 01:55:47 -0800642_US-ASCII I just wanted to find out if anyone on this board has dealt with interracial
(or not) adoption, a beis din, and homeschooling. We are bringing two
children home from Ethiopia next month, b'ezrat hashem, and would love to
talk with someone who's been there, done that. Thank you!!!!

-Kerith in Portland, OR

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_5Mar200801:55:47-0800kerith@EARLIX.COM 28 69 35_Re: Adoption/homeschooling/beis din14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU30_Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:09:36 -0600657_us-ascii Mazel tov on your forthcoming adoption!

I'm going to try to get more specific information about
Portland, but here's some general info.

Many batei din make it a requirement for conversion that a
child should attend a Jewish day school. (This is obviously
not a halakhic requirement for gerut -- it's a requirement
that the beit din places on accepting the conversion
candidate.) I doubt this is going to be an insurmountable
obstacle, but you should go in prepared for this possibility.
If you're committed to homeschooling (or are already
homeschooling), you should be able to describe not only what
[...]41_5Mar200813:09:36-0600jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 98 193 56_Re: TORCH-D Digest - 1 Mar 2008 to 6 Mar 2008 (#2008-14)11_Viva Hammer18_vivahammer@AOL.COM30_Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:15:35 -0500313_us-ascii The rabbi iin our community has a grown son who was adopted from south america (and clearly interracial) and is a very famous posek and leader in the Orthodox world.? He may be a good person to talk to - he's name is Yitzchak Breitowitz, and lives in Silver Spring, MD.? His email is judge5@aol.com [...]39_6Mar200813:15:35-0500vivahammer@AOL.COM 292 31 35_Re: Adoption/homeschooling/beis din10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET30_Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:27:06 -0800614_iso-8859-1 >>I just wanted to find out if anyone on this board has dealt
> with interracial
>>(or not) adoption, a beis din, and homeschooling. We are
> bringing two
>>children home from Ethiopia next month, b'ezrat hashem, and
> would love to
>>talk with someone who's been there, done that. Thank you!!

There is a small, Orthodox adoption list that might be helpful to you.
Several of the families on that list have done interracial adoptions and
several are homeschooling, but I don't know if any have done both. If
you're interested in joining that list let me know (I'm [...]35_6Mar200813:27:06-0800zara@HAIMO.NET 324 29 11_Hsing in CA16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM30_Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:06:06 -0800652_ISO-8859-1 Have you all heard the news about homeschooling in California? Our
freedoms are being threatened right now by the courts--a Christian
family got in trouble with child services or whatever because they were
hsing two of their kids, which these over-zealous social workers found
subversive or something. Anyway, I guess it's currently in the lower CA
courts that these parents (and others?) can't homeschool their children
without a teaching credential. This decision is being appealed at the
Supreme Court level. Children in CA don't have to be officially in
school until they're 6, but my son just turned 5, and [...]40_6Mar200821:06:06-0800lioness31@CA.RR.COM 354 66 35_Re: Adoption/homeschooling/beis din14_Hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:55:04 -0800540_iso-8859-1 i am interested to know about the list you spoke of
Zara....both personally and professionally..Im a
therapist that specializes in adoption issues....
also..Im not sure the gentleman's name who brought
home the Ethiopian baby....but could he contact
me...either here at Torch or at my
email....hadasl@sbcglobal.net Id be very interested
to know more information about his adoption
experience...in he wouldnt mind sharing.......Thank
you ...Hadas Laureano
--- Zara Haimo wrote: [...]41_6Mar200821:55:04-0800hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET 421 48 24_Bad California HS ruling11_Viva Hammer18_vivahammer@AOL.COM30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 07:56:30 -0500467_us-ascii Ruling: Home-schooled children must have credentialed teacher
A California appeals court has ruled that parents without teaching licenses cannot home school their children. It's unclear whether the ruling will be enforced, this article says, noting that the state's education department permits home schooling so long as certain conditions are satisfied but currently does little to ensure these qualifications are being met. Los Angeles Times (3/6) [...]39_7Mar200807:56:30-0500vivahammer@AOL.COM 470 104 40_Re: Bad California HS ruling (3.77/4.00)14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:38:51 -0500445_ISO-8859-1 Here is the information I got from another list.

The link below is a link for people to sign a petition to depublish the publication, making it invalid to use for future court rulings.

-Rivkah

https://www2.hslda.org/Registrations/DepublishingCaliforniaCourtDecision/

"A California Court of Appeal recently decided that homeschooling is illegal
in California unless a parent is a certified teacher. [...]43_7Mar200809:38:51-0500hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 575 646 20_[QUAR] Re: adoption?0_17_renalevin@AOL.COM30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:36:10 -0500471_us-ascii I second the motion, R. Breitowitz/his wife are wonderful resources! though they did not homeschool their son (who is grown and married, BTW) they know people who have chosen this path. I have not talked to R. Breitowitz about homeschooling, but know that his wife was involved with some families who were doing alternative education many years ago......He is also a professor at a law school, certainly knows the law, can be a resource on a lot of levels. [...]38_7Mar200808:36:10-0500renalevin@AOL.COM 1222 65 28_Re: Bad California HS ruling14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:31:32 -0600637_ISO-8859-1
This is typical of the gov't of California. Gun owners have been
battling the state bureaucracy and politicians for years because they
insist on enacting stupid laws that do nothing but increase state
control over the activities of private citizens.
But gun laws have been chiefly of concern to the gun rights community
and otherwise ignored. This is a mistake. Because freedom is freedom.
You may not own a gun but the impulse by politicians to control (and
tax) behavior is ever-present, no matter what the venue. So today it's
gun owners, tomorrow home schoolers, and so [...]48_7Mar200809:31:32-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1288 81 10_Re: CA law13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:02:50 -0800393_iso-8859-1 Welcome, Tamijean, and thank you for your input on this. It's good to hear that it's being dealt with, as I was quite concerned about the implications when I heard about this several days ago. It's a good reminder to homeschooling families that we can't take our homeschooling freedoms for granted, even though homeschooling has become so much more accepted in the mainstream. [...]43_7Mar200810:02:50-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1370 75 15_Re: Hsing in CA7_TJ Cole20_harbke2000@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:13:44 -0800296_iso-8859-1 Hi, I am new here and wasn't going to post more than an introduction as we are new to being religious and I am just here to listen (and hopefully pick up some ideas on how to change my homeschool in such a way as to teach my 12 and 14 year old boys who are resisting this change) [...]41_7Mar200809:13:44-0800harbke2000@YAHOO.COM 1446 104 40_Re: Bad California HS ruling (3.77/4.00)16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:09:42 -0800695_ISO-8859-1 Thanks so much for sending this, Rivkah! Hopefully, we can overturn and
"depublish" this crazy decision.

Rebecca Harper wrote:
> Here is the information I got from another list.
>
> The link below is a link for people to sign a petition to depublish the publication, making it invalid to use for future court rulings.
>
> -Rivkah
>
>
> https://www2.hslda.org/Registrations/DepublishingCaliforniaCourtDecision/
>
> "A California Court of Appeal recently decided that homeschooling is illegal
> in California unless a parent is a certified teacher.
>
> The case arose in a confidential juvenile court proceeding. The family was
[...]40_7Mar200810:09:42-0800lioness31@CA.RR.COM 1551 57 25_Re: Curriculum assistance7_TJ Cole20_harbke2000@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 7 Mar 2008 19:05:54 -0800514_iso-8859-1 Our list has been on the quiet side lately, so if there's something specific you'd like feedback on, please ask and hopefully some other list members will have helpful suggestions!

Avivah in Baltimore - mom to 8 great kids

I appreciate your help Avivah

If anyone has any curriculum Ideas I would love to hear them. I have been reading through the 613 Mitzvot with the boys, a few a day and reading the Parsha with them. I don't know of materials they can use for free reading. [...]41_7Mar200819:05:54-0800harbke2000@YAHOO.COM 1609 30 40_Re: Bad California HS ruling (3.77/4.00)8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM30_Sat, 8 Mar 2008 06:04:42 -0500410_ISO-8859-1 This isn't really what's going on in CA. You might want to dig up
some info from sources other than the conservative christian HSLDA,
who definitely has an agenda.

We just had a long discussion about this on another list, which
included info from those living in CA. There is absolutely an option
for essentially no state involvement in one's homeschooling program
there. [...]39_8Mar200806:04:42-0500cillakat@GMAIL.COM 1640 46 15_Re: Hsing in CA8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM30_Sat, 8 Mar 2008 06:06:23 -0500646_ISO-8859-1 This was actually an *abuse* case. Let's be cautious of our sources.

K

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Brenda Goldstein wrote:
> Have you all heard the news about homeschooling in California? Our
> freedoms are being threatened right now by the courts--a Christian
> family got in trouble with child services or whatever because they were
> hsing two of their kids, which these over-zealous social workers found
> subversive or something. Anyway, I guess it's currently in the lower CA
> courts that these parents (and others?) can't homeschool their children
> without a [...]39_8Mar200806:06:23-0500cillakat@GMAIL.COM 1687 97 15_Re: Hsing in CA13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:19:18 -0800659_iso-8859-1 And let's be careful to remember that when the state wants to justify something, 'abuse' is easily used and hard to refute.

Avivah

cillakat wrote:
This was actually an *abuse* case. Let's be cautious of our sources.

K

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:06 AM, Brenda Goldstein
wrote:
> Have you all heard the news about homeschooling in California? Our
> freedoms are being threatened right now by the courts--a Christian
> family got in trouble with child services or whatever because they were
> hsing two of their kids, which these over-zealous social workers found
> subversive [...]43_8Mar200818:19:18-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1785 28 31_Adoption/homeschooling/beis din13_Kerith Earlix17_kerith@EARLIX.COM30_Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:43:26 -0800616_US-ASCII Hi, all

Just wanted to let you know that despite my brief moment of panic last week,
all worked out just fine and everything is set with the beis din regarding
the conversion of our two Ethiopian children-to-be (b'ezrat hashem). PHEW!

Thanks for all your help.

-Kerith

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_8Mar200822:43:26-0800kerith@EARLIX.COM 1814 236 15_Re: Hsing in CA14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:27:31 +0200642_WINDOWS-1252 I strongly recommend that families read the decision (available in pdf from
a link at the HSLDA website: http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/ca/200803030.asp).
The court opinion did not relate to abuse at all-- the biggest issue is
that the mother did not have a teacher's license. I don't need to tell
anyone here about Ca laws, but this family was homeschooling legally with an
umbrella school. This judge determined that because the mother was not a
certified teacher, the family was breaking the law. The judge states flat
out that he does not believe that homeschooling in CA is a right (page 3),
and [...]39_9Mar200810:27:31+0200malkie18@GMAIL.COM 2051 97 25_Re: Curriculum assistance15_Miriam Schwartz16_gitvob@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:26:50 -0800537_us-ascii Although this is our first year homeschooling, we find that for chumash, simply reading the text and understanding the words (with rashi or without rashi, depending on the age of the child) along with the parsha of that week, really teaches the children the Torah. We do an aliya each day, including shabbat, which doesn't take long. We hope to include other mefarshim as we go on each year. My 4 and 6 year olds hear the story and the six year old reads a bit each day, and my 9 and 11 year olds read that day's aliya and [...]37_8Mar200821:26:50-0800gitvob@YAHOO.COM 2149 79 15_Re: Hsing in CA14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM30_Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:52:22 -0400551_ISO-8859-1 Yes, it started out as an "abuse" case (whether there really was abuse or not is another story), and the family has been in and out of the courts before, but this time social services pulled the fact that they were homeschooling to get what they want (rightfully or wrongfully). I think that what started out as one topic has now switched over to another topic. Also, apparently the law is in CA that you need to have a certified teacher to teach a child, even if you homeschool. That has been the case since 1961. However, it was not [...]43_9Mar200810:52:22-0400hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 2229 169 15_Re: Hsing in CA14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 9 Mar 2008 09:00:38 -0700641_us-ascii What about all the Jewish private schools in which very few teachers are certified?

----- Original Message ----
From: Rebecca Harper
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Sunday, March 9, 2008 10:52:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Hsing in CA

Yes, it started out as an "abuse" case (whether there really was abuse or not is another story), and the family has been in and out of the courts before, but this time social services pulled the fact that they were homeschooling to get what they want (rightfully or wrongfully). I think that what started out as one topic has now switched over [...]44_9Mar200809:00:38-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 2399 420 25_Re: Curriculum assistance15_Borisute Fmaily18_borisute@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:40:23 -0400503_US-ASCII Try chinuch.org

Lots of free downloads for teachers

Nava

_____

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
TJ Cole
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 10:06 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Curriculum assistance

Our list has been on the quiet side lately, so if there's something specific
you'd like feedback on, please ask and hopefully some other list members
will have helpful suggestions! [...]39_9Mar200812:40:23-0400borisute@GMAIL.COM 2820 69 15_Re: Hsing in CA6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:09:17 -0600605_ISO-8859-1 Here is a great resource if you want to hear what California homeschoolers
are doing about this:

http://www.hsc.org/appellatedecision

I joined this group last year, even though I live in Colorado, in order to
get their magazine ­ which I love!

Shoshana Z.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]41_9Mar200820:09:17-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 2890 78 19_homeschool conflict19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 04:08:26 GMT576_windows-1255 Hi, I am writing this question on behalf of a friend who finds herself in the following predicament: She comes from a secular backround and has since become religious. She likes the idea of homeschooling and in fact kept her six year old daughter at home this year. However, she feels that one of the main reasons she became religious was because she admired the "society" of religious people and wanted to be part of it, and now by homeschooling she is isolating herself from the very people she admires. Since she does not have the backround, how will she [...]39_10Mar200804:08:26GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 2969 210 23_Re: homeschool conflict14_Sarah Oeschger24_sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:37:21 -0700551_windows-1255 I'm not sure how helpful I will be here but I can share my own experience. There are few options in the way of educating our children here. There is a "community Jewish school" meaning kippot are optional, classes are mixed, not all kids are Jews, etc. OR there is a private school option ( non religious ) and public school isn't an option for us. I emailed a Rabbi in Israel whom I greatly respect on whether or not I should continue Home Schooling as it has been difficult and DS who just turned 7 is falling behind academically. [...]46_10Mar200802:37:21-0700sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM 3180 71 15_Re: Hsing in CA14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:17:44 -0400333_ISO-8859-1 I realized this morning that I did forget that part --- private schools do not need to have certified teachers in CA. That is how one can legally homeschool without a teacher's certification - just open up a charter school (I think that is the right wording), and your children are your only students. That is legal. [...]44_10Mar200814:17:44-0400hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 3252 87 23_Re: homeschool conflict15_Miriam Schwartz16_gitvob@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:16:36 -0700384_us-ascii Can she afford to hire someone for the Torah instruction for an hour or two a week and do the tutor's homework the rest of the week with the child?

Sometimes it is easier to find family friends in a smaller community. Is there a local Bnos or other youth group? Coming to shul every week is important, and she may be able to find friends at a local weekly shiur. [...]38_10Mar200810:16:36-0700gitvob@YAHOO.COM 3340 222 37_Re: Hsing in CA - Assembly Resolution14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:24:04 -0800722_WINDOWS-1252 I just received this email from the California HS list:

Please forward the following message from California Homeschool Network:

California Assemblyman Joel Anderson is introducing a concurrent
resolution in the Assembly. He is calling on the California Supreme
Court to reverse the recent court decision that could make
homeschooling illegal.

This will happen fast, since it's a resolution and not a bill. All
California homeschoolers are encouraged to contact their legislators
and ask them to support homeschoolers by voting yes on Joel
Anderson's ACR supporting homeschooling. We expect there will be a
powerful response as California homeschoolers respond. [...]39_10Mar200812:24:04-0800ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 3563 45 15_Re: Hsing in CA14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:57:52 -0500556_us-ascii Charter schools are public schools.

What you have in mind is registering your HS as a plain-old
private school.

While on topic, note that most states (I believe including
CA) have uncertified teachers in the public schools too.
Usually there's a provision for hiring them to fill a vacant
position when that position needs to be filled right away.
Some states (not sure about CA) also have an "alternate
route to certification", where a teacher becomes certified
while already working in the public school. [...]42_10Mar200815:57:52-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 3609 106 15_Re: Hsing in CA7_TJ Cole20_harbke2000@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:33:10 -0700344_iso-8859-1 In california we file a form with the state that used to be called an R-4, its online now so no one has quite figured out what to call it. this form is filed by all schools, public and private. there are no rules for teachers crudentials or mandatory hours for private schools, Homeschools are just really small private schools [...]42_10Mar200817:33:10-0700harbke2000@YAHOO.COM 3716 100 15_Re: Hsing in CA14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 12:54:35 -0800565_ISO-8859-1 When you set up your own school, it's actually a private school - there is
no minimum number of students for private schools in CA. A charter school
is part of the public school system. All you have to do is file a form
saying you're a private school and how many kids of which grade you have.
Then you keep attendance, medical records etc. If a private school in CA is
not accredited, then they do not have to have credentialed teachers, nor do
they have to do testing. Many Jewish Day Schools fall into this category,
as well [...]39_10Mar200812:54:35-0800ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 3817 608 37_Re: Hsing in CA - Assembly Resolution6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:41:37 -0700582_us-ascii Is all of our California legal question really that interesting to those of
you out of state? I'm providing more info here for those who care (3 items
that follow below).

One thing, however, isn't clear to me on the CA hs-ing issue. One of you
mentioned the small private school option in CA. It's the choice I pursued
this year, and the online form that constitutes all the paperwork took me
all of a few minutes. I don't see that the current challenges impact on
those of us who declared our own private schools with our children as the
[...]45_10Mar200820:41:37-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 4426 175 45_Re: Hsing in CA - Inteerest from other States10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM31_Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:06:53 -0400437_US-ASCII Actually those of us not in California are very interested because we see
what happens in other states as the possible opening of the flood gates for
attacks against our homeschooling.

It doesn't take much to know that the Government Indoctrination System
(a.k.a, the government schools) and the Teacher's Unions will try every
dirty trick they can to take away our rights and save our children from us. [...]41_11Mar200814:06:53-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 4602 245 45_Re: Hsing in CA - Inteerest from other States15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:20:43 -0700339_iso-8859-1 Go to farewellisrael.com and watch the trailer. We have seen the film and I'm going to order it. It details in 2 1/2 hrs. how Isarel will be erased :(.....soon! We watched it with a Religious Zionist friend visiting us from Eretz Yisroel and it blew his mind. He is keeping his options open to leave with his family.
`m [...]47_11Mar200815:20:43-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 4848 333 45_Re: Hsing in CA - Inteerest from other States15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:13:02 -0700371_iso-8859-1 Moderator,

This was a private email with no relationship to the thread at all. I'm not sure how I sent it to you. I apologize to all the list-members.

As an aside. This is one of the most important films I've ever seen by Sir Gilbert of Britain (not a kook...author or 72 books). I pray that his scenario does not happen. May Gd protect us. [...]47_11Mar200816:13:02-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 5182 179 37_Re: Hsing in CA - Assembly Resolution14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:43:41 -0800387_ISO-8859-1 Since it seems that people are interested, I'll answer the question:

If you read the wording of the decision, the judges specifically say
that the private school option is not an option for homeschoolers. But,
then, why does the Education Code specifically allow for private schools
with less than 6 students?

Here is an excerpt from the decision: [...]39_11Mar200814:43:41-0800ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 5362 83 40_CA Superintendent of Education Statement14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:38:41 -0800688_ISO-8859-1 This was just released. It's nice to know that the people with the real
power are behind us.

SCHOOLS CHIEF JACK O'CONNELL ISSUES STATEMENT REGARDING HOME
SCHOOLING IN CALIFORNIA

SACRAMENTO - State Superintendent of Public Instruction
Jack O'Connell announced today that the California Department of
Education has completed a legal review of the February 28 California
Court of Appeal ruling regarding home schooling. O'Connell issued the
following statement:
"I have reviewed this case, and I want to assure parents
that chose to home school that California Department of Education
policy will not change in any way as a result of [...]39_11Mar200817:38:41-0800ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 5446 1030 37_Re: Hsing in CA - Assembly Resolution6_sharon23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:31:55 -0700535_utf-8 I guess I’m not the only one asking this question. This came in my e-mail today.

California Homeschool Network

Strengthening the Voice of California Homeschoolers™

PO Box 55485 Hayward, CA 94545 www.californiahomeschool.net 1-800-327-5339

THE FACTS

ABOUT PRIVATE [HOME]SCHOOLING IN CALIFORNIA

Prepared by the Legal Rights Committee of CHN

On occasion, a school district administrator may initiate a challenge to the right of parents to operate a small private school for [...]45_12Mar200808:31:55-0700sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET 6477 466 30_Re: Off topic: Farewell Israel10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM31_Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:36:53 -0400569_us-ascii Michelle and others,

I know this is off topic but Israel concerns us all.

I also have a copy of the DVD "Farewell Israel" (I got it on Amazon for $9
plus shipping). It is a lot more scary then the Obsessions Video that
everyone was watching last year. The reason it is so scary is that it is
well thought out and calm. It goes through the history of Islam up to the
present. Thereby bringing you to an understanding of how Islam views us,
including: Israel, the Jews and the non-Muslim Goyim of the world. It
explains what [...]41_12Mar200823:36:53-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 6944 541 30_Re: Off topic: Farewell Israel14_Sarah Oeschger24_sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:24:53 -0700417_iso-8859-1 How must Israel change? I can only think to do more Teshuva and increase our emunah. What did the dvd potray?

Sincerely, Mandy

----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Beck
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2008 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Off topic: Farewell Israel

Michelle and others,

I know this is off topic but Israel concerns us all. [...]46_13Mar200816:24:53-0700sarah.oeschger@GMAIL.COM 7486 830 74_teaching about Islam and Israel (was:[TORCH-D] Off topic: Farewell Israel)25_Dickman, Benjamin H (Ben)27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:16:30 -0500647_us-ascii bs'd

As Michelle suggested, go to farewellisrael.com , and read the reviews,
which give details alluded to in the trailer.

I've been teaching my girls (now 12 and 9) about how Judaism differs
from Xtianity and Islam, on a level that they can absorb. We
learn about why the first and second Batei HaMikdosh were destroyed,
according to the Gemara/Midrashim. Important here is that Gemara
Sanhedrin points out a "wonderful teaching": that Nevukhadnetzar
is referred to as "`avdi" [my servant] in Tanakh, so that the Jews
in exile could not say that they were absolved of keeping mitzvot
in Bavel, [...]49_13Mar200819:16:30-0500bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM 8317 93 26_farewell Israel; off topic15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:50:42 -0700408_iso-8859-1 Teshuva and emunah are absolutely vital, of course. But the main reason Israel (in its present form) will not prevail is a profound misunderstanding of Islam. That goes for Europe and US too, but Israel is on the front line. Israelis are as blind to what is coming as the European Jews were, chas v'shalom. It doesn't have to be this way. I cannot recommend enough that people see this film. [...]47_13Mar200817:50:42-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 8411 38 10_California8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:44:58 -0400397_ISO-8859-1 I think it's not quite accurate to interpret the situation in California as
"effectively outlawing homeschooling" there. Please check this site for
good information on that case. It's the website of one of the larger home
study groups in California which is heavily involved in the legal efforts to
get the ruling "depublished": http://www.hsc.org:80/Appellatedecision [...]40_13Mar200821:44:58-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 8450 295 30_Re: Off topic: Farewell Israel10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:22:58 -0400354_US-ASCII Mandy,

To answer your question I will try to be gentle because I know how much
Israel means to us all. (I will be less gentle off-list if you ask.)

In my mind there are two problems. One is all of Medinas Yisrael (The
country of Israel) and by extension all the non-Muslim world. And the other
is the Orthodox world. [...]41_13Mar200823:22:58-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 8746 52 37_Re: teaching about Islam and Xtianity7_TJ Cole20_harbke2000@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:51:57 -0700640_iso-8859-1 Could you recommend a book that would explain this at a 10 to 12 year old level?

TJ

I've been teaching my girls (now 12 and 9) about how Judaism differs
from Xtianity and Islam, on a level that they can absorb.

---------------------------------
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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_13Mar200821:51:57-0700harbke2000@YAHOO.COM 8799 34 38_Discussion of Islam and the Arab world21_Eliana Scott-Thoennes14_eliana@EFN.ORG31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 23:21:02 -0700468_iso-8859-1 I am very distressed by some of the posts on this topic.

Let me just say that I find the blanket generalizations about another
people and another faith to be horrifically offensive. I am very
disturbed that these posts were allowed through by the moderators, and
even more disturbed that anyone can in all seriousness believe such
things. Saying them is, imnsho, a Chillul Hashem and acting on them
would, in my opinion, be evil. [...]36_13Mar200823:21:02-0700eliana@EFN.ORG 8834 125 42_Re: Discussion of Islam and the Arab world0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:56:07 +0000571_- Moderator note:

The posts on this topic have exceeded the scope of this list. I'll be the first to admit it. In past administrations there was a tendency to tread lightly to avoid offending people.
My view is that people here are adults and are expected to behave so. And I am happy to say they do.
But we do not explore topics and learn by squelching legitimate debate. I must disagree with some of the opinions on this topic expressed, virulently in some cases. But that does not amount to a mandate to censor them.
THanks and Good Schabbos,
[...]49_14Mar200812:56:07+0000billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 8960 77 24_Haggodah Recommendations14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:25:02 -0800349_ISO-8859-1 All,

Which children's haggodahs do you recommend, and why? I'm planning to buy
two - my daughters are 6 & 8. I'm looking for ones that include the English
translation. I realized that we are still using the ones from my childhood
- with very "old" English etc - great pop-ups and tab pulls, but not very
readable. [...]39_14Mar200801:25:02-0800ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 9038 107 30_Re: farewell Israel; off topic0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:02:45 +0000607_- I havent seen the film. I am not certain even of what it says. I can glean something from what's been written here and I can disagree with it.
Israel has been dealing with Arabs for 60 years as an organized state. The majority of its citizens come (or their near-ancestors did) from Arabic-speaking countries. To say that Israel does not understand Islam (and the resulting politics) is in my opinion mistaken.
We could discuss the various reasons, political, spiritual, and economic, for Israel's current situation. BUt there are many other fora for this that would be more appropriate.
So [...]49_14Mar200813:02:45+0000billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 9146 74 23_Fw: Purim Activity Book14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 13:47:36 -0400368_iso-8859-1 Hi,
For those of you who enjoy making lap books with your kids, here is a great one for Purim. It's quite comprehensive, so you may want to pick and choose. Even if you don't make the book, there is good information and activity pages you could use. The designer is making one for each chag for purchase and this one is free for marketing purposes. [...]40_13Mar200813:47:36-0400ek2000@COMCAST.NET 9221 58 23_Fw: Purim Activity Book14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 13 Mar 2008 16:01:29 -0400436_iso-8859-1 I'm trying again. This is an attachment.
Evelyn

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG40_13Mar200816:01:29-0400ek2000@COMCAST.NET 9280 23 28_Re: Haggodah Recommendations12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:08:05 -0400541_us-ascii I'm not fond of the Little Midrash Says Haggadah. The illustrations
are very frightening and the stories are disturbing as well. I don't
think it's appropriate for young children -- my personal opinion!

Yael

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]44_14Mar200810:08:05-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 9304 59 52_curriculum on the conflict (was Re: farewell Israel)14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:35:47 -0500440_us-ascii For those looking for materials with a different
message, here's a curriculum to help older kids
explore different aspects of the conflict:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/globalconnections/mideast/educators/n
ations/lesson3.html

I would appreciate not being flamed for posting this.
For the record, I am not an enemy of Israel, nor am I naive.
I just see the facts differently from the previous posters. [...]42_14Mar200814:35:47-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 9364 132 28_Re: Haggodah Recommendations12_Yonit Kasten22_jillkasten@CHARTER.NET31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:44:17 -0400561_ISO-8859-1 We really like the Artsroll Children's Haggadah. In fact I am thinking
that I might get a few more this year and we will all use them.. :)

Yonit

Gaby Neuburger wrote:
> All,
>
> Which children's haggodahs do you recommend, and why? I'm planning to
> buy two - my daughters are 6 & 8. I'm looking for ones that include
> the English translation. I realized that we are still using the ones
> from my childhood - with very "old" English etc - great pop-ups and
> tab pulls, but not very readable.
>
> A [...]44_14Mar200815:44:17-0400jillkasten@CHARTER.NET 9497 34 27_Re: Fw: Purim Activity Book12_Susan Warren16_psyslw@GWUMC.EDU31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:00:15 -0400627_US-ASCII Unfortunately, I still did not get it. Best wishes, Susan

>>> Evelyn Krieger 3/13/2008 4:01 PM >>>
I'm trying again. This is an attachment.
Evelyn

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For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ [...]38_14Mar200815:00:15-0400psyslw@GWUMC.EDU 9532 51 56_Re: curriculum on the conflict (was Re: farewell Israel)14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:17:11 -0500406_us-ascii And here's a DVD I recommend. It's a documentary that
looks at the conflict from the point of view of children
of different backgrounds. It's a little out of date (2000),
but the ideas and feelings still resonate.

http://www.promisesproject.org/film.html

They also have a curriculum/study guide, but it seemed over-
priced to me. I would just get (or rent) the DVD. [...]42_14Mar200816:17:11-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 9584 129 28_Re: Haggodah Recommendations14_Gaby Neuburger17_ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:38:26 -0800583_ISO-8859-1 I noticed that there are 2 Artscrolls - one Children's - one Youth. Does
anyone have experience of the Youth one?

On 3/14/08, Yonit Kasten wrote:
>
> We really like the Artsroll Children's Haggadah. In fact I am thinking
> that I might get a few more this year and we will all use them.. :)
>
> Yonit
>
> Gaby Neuburger wrote:
>
> All,
>
> Which children's haggodahs do you recommend, and why? I'm planning to buy
> two - my daughters are 6 & 8. I'm looking for ones that include the English
[...]39_14Mar200813:38:26-0800ylb@NEUBURGER.ORG 9714 279 42_Re: Discussion of Islam and the Arab world15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:15:42 -0700693_iso-8859-1 B"H

Bill,

You're the mensch! May Hashem bless us all with achdus (amen).

Gut Shabbes/Freiliche Purim,
michelle

"Action is the main thing."....Lubavitcher Rebbe

Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:56:07 +0000
From: billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Discussion of Islam and the Arab world
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG

Moderator note:

The posts on this topic have exceeded the scope of this list. I'll be the first to admit it. In past administrations there was a tendency to tread lightly to avoid offending people.
My view is that people here are adults and are expected to behave so. And I am happy to say they [...]47_14Mar200815:15:42-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 9994 63 20_Re: Bill the mentsch13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:31:46 -0700381_iso-8859-1 >>In past administrations there was a tendency to tread lightly to avoid offending people.<<

What in the world does that mean?? That you're treading heavily? That you don't care about offending people? Or that you consider your faithful co-moderator is a relic belonging to the past administration? :))) Better be careful, Bill. Some of us are sensitive. :) [...]44_14Mar200815:31:46-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 10058 108 20_Re: Bill the mentsch0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 14 Mar 2008 23:05:52 +0000491_- It would have to be the second. I dont care about offending people. We live in a time when people get offended over anything and everything. And rather than just expressing moral outrage they would be better off dealing with the arguments. They might actually learn something in the process.
No offense meant at the co-moderator's activities. She does a terrific job, despite having all those great kids.
Bill Bernstein
Nashville TN.
Just don't ask me about Baltimore.... [...]49_14Mar200823:05:52+0000billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 10167 52 28_Re: Haggodah Recommendations14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Sat, 15 Mar 2008 23:25:18 +0200404_ISO-8859-1 IMHO the Chait haggadah is very, very scary.

We have the old artscroll on that is kind of pareve. My son's favorite
hagaddah is the Doodled Family haggadah, which is light and silly and funny
and STILL manages to convey all the important messages. And you can get it
right now really cheap at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Reudors-Doodled-Family-Haggadah/dp/188661122X [...]40_15Mar200823:25:18+0200malkie18@GMAIL.COM 10220 44 17_Canada schooling?6_Shayna17_ssheiny@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 15 Mar 2008 21:45:58 -0700388_iso-8859-1 Shavua Tov everyone,

We are considering moving up to Montreal from the US,
and exploring all options in regards to this move.
I'm wondering if anyone lives in Montreal (or Quebec
or somewhere in Canada) on the list and could give me
some recommendations on schooling in Canada (or, if it
is specifically different in Quebec/Montreal, then
there). [...]39_15Mar200821:45:58-0700ssheiny@YAHOO.COM 10265 144 21_Re: Canada schooling?14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:52:36 +0200567_ISO-8859-1 There exist negative reasons to homeschool, and there exist positive reasons
to homeschool. Negative reasons include terrible local schools, negative
peer socialization, and pretty much any reason that begins with "it's
horrible that...". There also exist positive reasons to homeschool: the
desire to take responsibility and direct your own child's education, the
desire for the close family relationships that come of hs, the relaxed home
atmosphere, positive peer interactions among homeschoolers, and dozens of
other reasons. [...]40_16Mar200818:52:36+0200malkie18@GMAIL.COM 10410 321 21_Re: Canada schooling?25_Dickman, Benjamin H (Ben)27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:35:25 -0500466_us-ascii bs'd

I've heard that Jewish schools in Quebec province are required
(as are the public schools) to have both English and French in
the curriculum. I've heard that many families left for Toronto to
escape the mandates in Quebec. You need to ask what Quebec
requires from homeschoolers before you go there to live.
Do try to speak to parents in Montreal who send there kids
to Jewish schools there (assuming there are any left). [...]49_16Mar200816:35:25-0500bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM 10732 182 21_Re: Canada schooling?14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM31_Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:31:36 -0400326_ISO-8859-1 Here is a good link to start with

http://www.montreal-jewish.org/

There are several Jewish schools on the list - do not know if there might be more that are not on the list or not (I think there are 6 - 4 UTT schools and 2 others that are listed)

Montreal is fairly big still Jewish wise. [...]44_17Mar200815:31:36-0400hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 10915 181 65_[Fwd: California--Court of Appeal Grants Petition for Re-hearing]16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:33:38 -0700489_ISO-8859-1 Looks like we've made some progress!
Brenda

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For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/41_27Mar200808:33:38-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM 11097 286 28_Consulting for Jewish Hs'ers16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:02:15 -0400486_iso-8859-1 At a bat mitzvah a few weeks ago, I had a really lovely conversation with Miriam Kowall. She is an educational consultant who has worked in Jewish education for over 30 years. She was very excited by the prospect of helping Jewish homeschoolers. I know many of us talk about wanting a "Jewish curriculum" for our kids. While there isn't one ready-made, how nice to know that there are folks out there who can help us tailor-make one for our children! Her info is below. [...]50_31Mar200811:02:15-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET