1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d June 2007
2 51 21_Monsey Homeschoolers?9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Jun 2007 23:30:30 -0700529_ISO-8859-1 Are there any Monsey homeschoolers out there?
My daughter is attending OHR Sameach from June 11-July 19 in its first trial
of
serious studies for women there. She was hoping to meet up with another
homeschooling
family while she is there. I believe that studies are until 2pm each day
and some other
activities and or evening lectures will be going on some days. If you live
in the Monsey area and would like
to meet a homeschooler from Oregon, please contact us off list.
Beth Mali [...]39_3Jun200723:30:30-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM
54 115 25_Re: Monsey Homeschoolers?0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM28_Mon, 4 Jun 2007 08:29:25 EDT628_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/4/2007 7:10:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
malikids@GMAIL.COM writes:
Are there any Monsey homeschoolers out there?
My daughter is attending OHR Sameach from June 11-July 19 in its first trial
of
serious studies for women there. She was hoping to meet up with another
homeschooling
family while she is there. I believe that studies are until 2pm each day
and some other
activities and or evening lectures will be going on some days. If you live
in the Monsey area and would like
to meet a homeschooler from Oregon, please contact us off list.
Beth Mali [...]40_4Jun200708:29:25EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM
170 128 25_Re: Monsey Homeschoolers?9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Mon, 4 Jun 2007 19:09:36 -0700647_ISO-8859-1 Thank you Chana. Much appreciated.
On 6/4/07, YiddisheMameh@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/4/2007 7:10:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> malikids@GMAIL.COM writes:
>
> Are there any Monsey homeschoolers out there?
> My daughter is attending OHR Sameach from June 11-July 19 in its first
> trial of
> serious studies for women there. She was hoping to meet up with another
> homeschooling
> family while she is there. I believe that studies are until 2pm each day
> and some other
> activities and or evening lectures will be going on some days. If you
[...]39_4Jun200719:09:36-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM
299 88 34_teaching history to young children13_Sharon Brooks23_Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Thu, 7 Jun 2007 07:31:03 -0700554_iso-8859-1 In reading about the Rambam to my almost 6 yo son, we got into a very brief discussion of the crusaders and moslem efforts of that time. He was interested, so I want to start teaching him some history - just the next step up from having references to it in books we read. I've never really considered the process of teaching this. Are there any good books on the subject, especially from a Jewish world view? Ultimately I don't wish to constrain it that way, but it seems like there's some benefit to starting there. I'm not sure whether [...]44_7Jun200707:31:03-0700Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
388 120 38_Re: teaching history to young children16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Jun 2007 15:18:48 -0700570_us-ascii I'd say that it's best to teach him what he's already interested in
learning.
Brenda
Sharon Brooks wrote:
> In reading about the Rambam to my almost 6 yo son, we got into a very
> brief discussion of the crusaders and moslem efforts of that time. He
> was interested, so I want to start teaching him some history - just
> the next step up from having references to it in books we read. I've
> never really considered the process of teaching this. Are there any
> good books on the subject, especially from a Jewish world [...]40_7Jun200715:18:48-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM
509 60 38_Re: teaching history to young children18_Benjamin H Dickman27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM30_Thu, 7 Jun 2007 18:48:27 -0400377_UTF-8 Sharon,
I would first read (for myself) ArtScroll's "From Yavneh to Pumbeditha",
then use it to explain how Jewish life felt in those communities.
Then I would explain the Roman/Byzantine persecutions on whatever level
my child was ready for. The chapters on Islam were eye-opening,
and show how HaShem moves history to protect the Jewish people. [...]48_7Jun200718:48:27-0400bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM
570 60 38_Re: teaching history to young children28_Jamie Rosenblum Lichtenstein25_jrosenbl@HSPH.HARVARD.EDU30_Fri, 8 Jun 2007 07:07:44 -0400575_US-ASCII The Cardinal's Snuffbox by Kenneth Roseman is a pick-your-own adventure about that time period from a Jewish perspective. I've read it with older kids, but and interested 6 yo probably would enjoy it.
Jamie
On 6/7/2007 10:31 AM, Sharon Brooks wrote:
> In reading about the Rambam to my almost 6 yo son, we got into a very
> brief discussion of the crusaders and moslem efforts of that time. He
> was interested, so I want to start teaching him some history - just the
> next step up from having references to it in books we read. I've [...]46_8Jun200707:07:44-0400jrosenbl@HSPH.HARVARD.EDU
631 32 14_science videos17_Maria Pereverzeva22_maria-p@ROCKETMAIL.COM31_Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:38:12 -0700738_iso-8859-1 Here are the new (free) science videos from Robert Krampf-- Earth
Science-- check them out--
http://www.krampf.com/BCIS.html
Shavua Tov,
Maria
____________________________________________________________________________________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]44_10Jun200714:38:12-0700maria-p@ROCKETMAIL.COM
664 39 22_Rabbi Horowitz Article2_CB23_chavayocheved@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:47:55 -0700494_iso-8859-1 http://www.rabbihorowitz.com/PYes/ArticleDetails.cfm?Book_ID=873&ThisGroup_ID=261
There is an open question on his website about quality
time with children. I commented that homeschooling
might work (as did someone else) but I was wondering
if someone who actually has experience homeschooling
(ds is only 10 months right now :) would like to
comment on his article.
Thanks! I'm just hoping that perhaps more people will
consider this option. :) [...]45_12Jun200703:47:55-0700chavayocheved@YAHOO.COM
704 71 42_looking for a place to stay in the DC area4_Laya17_tolife18@JUNO.COM29_Wed, 13 Jun 2007 00:30:49 GMT523_- My family and I will be in the DC area from Thursday night the 21st of June to Monday the 25th of June. We're looking for a family who can host us for shabbos and if possible the other nights too. I'm going to be at the ALA (American Library Association's book trade show) on Sunday and Monday before we head to LA for a month to visit family. Any ideas or suggestions are gratefully received. Feel free to email me off list with phone numbers too and I'll call (I'm in the NY area now).
Thanks! Kol tuv,
Laya [...]37_13Jun200700:30:49GMTtolife18@JUNO.COM
776 72 46_Re: looking for a place to stay in the DC area13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:15:07 -0700560_iso-8859-1 Laya, if you would consider coming to Baltimore (about an hour and a half from DC), we'd love to have you for Shabbos!
Avivah
Laya wrote:
My family and I will be in the DC area from Thursday night the 21st of June to Monday the 25th of June. We're looking for a family who can host us for shabbos and if possible the other nights too. I'm going to be at the ALA (American Library Association's book trade show) on Sunday and Monday before we head to LA for a month to visit family. Any ideas or suggestions [...]44_12Jun200719:15:07-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
849 41 17_Re: Finding a Rav18_Benjamin H Dickman27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:56:01 -0400695_UTF-8 bs'd
Sharon's original question still bothered me.
"Doesn't it suffice to know a knowledgable teacher or woman,
as opposed to committing to developing one's spiritual life
with a Rav?"
The website below has good insight into that question.
Enjoy.
http://www.aish.com/torahportion/betweenTheLines/Clinging_to_the_Light.asp
kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman
On 5/22/2007 12:58 AM, Sharon Brooks wrote:
> These are two special Rebbeim. I've briefly met one, and used to attend a
> regular shiur with the other. But I'm just not sure what to even look for
> in a Rav. If it's not a halachic Rav I'm seeking, aren't I just as well off
[...]49_13Jun200714:56:01-0400bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM
891 35 34_Re: History Resource help, please!8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:08:43 -0400318_ISO-8859-1 <> is at 4th grade level.>>
Second. I'd put them at about 1st grade my 5 yo loves listening to me
read them as well. My 8 yo is not a strong reader but Magic Treehouse
has held her interest strongly since 6. [...]40_16Jun200712:08:43-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM
927 36 46_Cute Syllabus Idea on Teaching Chumash & Rashi16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 17 Jun 2007 18:48:52 -0400411_us-ascii Hi
Last weekend I was in Phoenix. The local newspaper mentioned an
innovative idea that I thought I would share with you.
They asked their 3rd graders to evaluate on their own each Rashi in Noach
(the sedra they were discussing). So on each Rashi the student guessed
why Rashi said whatever he did, and then commented on whether he thought
it was a correct inference or not. [...]39_17Jun200718:48:52-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM
964 34 12_a boy thing?13_Sharon Brooks23_Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:24:27 -0700561_iso-8859-1 I had recently asked here about teaching my almost 6 yo son the history of
the crusades. Upon further delving, I discovered that his interest was more
in learning about war and soldiers and the like. It was a shock to me,
because he's generally been on the mild, gentle, sweet and easy side. We
don't have toy weapons. He's not exposed to TV. I guess everyone has told
me that boys reach this point and it's in the hormones, or whatever. So now
I'm trying to figure out how to adjust. I don't want to deny his interest,
but [...]45_17Jun200720:24:27-0700Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
999 26 7_sharing16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Sun, 17 Jun 2007 20:31:29 -0700470_us-ascii Here's a thought I've been having recently regarding the whole
socialization thing. Whenever our children have friends over (when
they're four and under), we're always telling them to share. But they
don't know how to share until they become mature enough. So, is it fair
of us to impose play dates on our children, when they're not yet
socially ready? I wonder what parents of yore did regarding this. I
welcome your thoughts.
Brenda [...]41_17Jun200720:31:29-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM
1026 67 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 08:45:34 -0400483_US-ASCII Sharon,
My wife an I found it is a bad idea to try and completely suppress something
HaShem put in a person. It is better to control its direction and teach self
control. We have four boys. We tried to take away toy guns when they were
young but you can't take away their fingers. So we set down reasonable rules
for them to play and were very consistent about their enforcement. That way
we had control over how they played and when they played. [...]41_18Jun200708:45:34-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM
1094 61 16_Re: a boy thing?14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 08:17:12 -0500537_ISO-8859-1 Great post, Larry.
Boys/men have an essential nature that involves aggression. That can be
channeled into good or into bad. But it will go somewhere.
More to the point, we live in a sissified society that tends to
denigrate manliness. This is unfortunate because sometimes aggression
can be the proper response to a situation. I stress sometimes.
I am surprised no one has brought up "The Dangerous Book for Boys" yet.
I got it for my son, age 12, and he loved it.
Bill Bernstein
Nashville TN. [...]49_18Jun200708:17:12-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET
1156 42 4_boys14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:35:18 -0700360_ascii It's been the case for my sweet, gentle boys, too. They love weapons. Everything becomes a gun
or a sword. Lego, K'nex, a bendable straw . . . a bar of soap! So we use it as motivation to teach.
As for your son, world history through war sounds just right (many textbooks approach it that way anyway!).
Tanach is another excellent example. [...]45_18Jun200706:35:18-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM
1199 129 11_Re: sharing9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:35:21 -0700548_ISO-8859-1 I remember thinking the same thing when my kids were under four. Before
other kids would come over, I would ask my kids to pick out some toys that
they would not mind to share with other kids and I had them put away toys
that they just could not part with so that it would not become a problem to
begin with. I did not schedule them for play groups when they were young
because it would seem to generate more negativity than camaraderie. The more
siblings in a family the more socializing a child gets at home. As [...]40_18Jun200706:35:21-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM
1329 61 16_Re: a boy thing?13_Sharon Brooks23_Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 06:39:01 -0700552_iso-8859-1 I'm not sure if I was clear. Although rough play has clearly increased,
that's not what I'm seeking suggestions for. Rather, he's asking to learn
about (academically) war, soldiers, weapons, and the like. I've personally
avoided the topic as much as I could in my life. What's appropriate to
teach an almost 6 year old boy without damaging his neshama, without
glorifying destruction and bloodshed? How can I turn this into a teaching
theme with books and discussiojn - even activity, sure - wihtout regretting
it? [...]45_18Jun200706:39:01-0700Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
1391 60 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:37:52 +0300611_ISO-8859-1 Bill Bernstein wrote:
> Great post, Larry.
> Boys/men have an essential nature that involves aggression. That can
> be channeled into good or into bad. But it will go somewhere.
Agreed - Mom of 6 boys here, 3 of them teens, you just cannot suppress
aggression. But you can definitely channel it to positive uses.
> More to the point, we live in a sissified society that tends to
> denigrate manliness.
You could always move to Israel!
> This is unfortunate because sometimes aggression can be the proper
> response to a situation.
There are some situations that [...]39_18Jun200716:37:52+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL
1452 45 7_Lilach?4_A.S.26_avigayil_simpson@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 07:07:16 -0700576_iso-8859-1 Is Lilach in South Africa still on this list? If so, please contact me off-list!
Thanks
Avigayil
---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]48_18Jun200707:07:16-0700avigayil_simpson@YAHOO.COM
1498 109 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:21:37 +0300401_ISO-8859-1 There are certainly plenty of war stories in the Tanach to teach your son
about if that's where his interest lies :-) We have an advantage being in
Israel that we can go on hikes and see some of the locations of famous
battles -- we live just above the valley where David fought Goliath, and
very close to Shimshon's birthplace, so these are very well known to my
kids. [...]42_18Jun200717:21:37+0300fox.louise@GMAIL.COM
1608 44 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Rachel Ann24_anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:57:36 +0300386_us-ascii I think many a girl has a warrior in her as well, but it is "not
lady-liked" out of her.
Aggression is normal for both girls and boys. But channeling is what
is important.
Israeli kids btw are much more aggressive as a whole than kids from
the USA, at least that has been my experience.
I was more of knives, swords and bow and arrow type person myself. [...]46_18Jun200717:57:36+0300anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL
1653 195 11_Re: sharing16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:23:26 -0700521_us-ascii Yes, thanks. My son is four and is much better at sharing than he was
just a little while ago. I guess I'm thinking of the whole "sharing
thing" that I see all around me.
beth mali wrote:
> I remember thinking the same thing when my kids were under four.
> Before other kids would come over, I would ask my kids to pick out
> some toys that they would not mind to share with other kids and I had
> them put away toys that they just could not part with so that it would
> not [...]41_18Jun200709:23:26-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM
1849 379 16_Re: a boy thing?11_Nechama Cox20_nechama@BOREALIS.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:53:23 -0400572_us-ascii Sharon
>I'm not sure if I was clear. Although rough play has clearly
>increased, that's not what I'm seeking suggestions for. Rather,
>he's asking to learn about (academically) war, soldiers, weapons,
>and the like. I've personally avoided the topic as much as I could
>in my life. What's appropriate to teach an almost 6 year old boy
>without damaging his neshama, without glorifying destruction and
>bloodshed? How can I turn this into a teaching theme with books and
>discussiojn - even activity, sure - wihtout regretting it? [...]42_18Jun200713:53:23-0400nechama@BOREALIS.COM
2229 126 16_Re: a boy thing?0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:05:21 EDT609_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/18/2007 7:03:19 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:
I had recently asked here about teaching my almost 6 yo son the history of
the crusades. Upon further delving, I discovered that his interest was more
in learning about war and soldiers and the like. It was a shock to me,
because he's generally been on the mild, gentle, sweet and easy side. We
don't have toy weapons. He's not exposed to TV. I guess everyone has told
me that boys reach this point and it's in the hormones, or whatever. So now
I'm trying to figure [...]41_18Jun200715:05:21EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM
2356 58 16_Re: a boy thing?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 12:15:26 -0700528_iso-8859-1 This discussion reminds me of a fascinating book that I read a couple of years ago - I really wish I could remember the title. (If someone knows what I'm referring to, please share the title.) It was about two boy twins, and a decision that was made to raise one as a girl and one as a boy due to a tragic medical error with a routine circumcision of one. This was the casebook study used for years to show that male and female nature wasn't inherent in a person, but dependent on how a child is raised (because [...]44_18Jun200712:15:26-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
2415 193 16_Re: a boy thing?14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:40:35 +0300386_ISO-8859-1 That sounds like something Dr. John Money was involved in. He was really
into the nurture side of things, and was one of the few "experts" working in
the field of gender identity and medicine, and he managed to ruin a lot of
people's lives. I'm not a fan of his work (he was a researcher at my
University. I heard him speak, and I was severely unimpressed). [...]40_18Jun200723:40:35+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
2609 88 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Rachel Ann24_anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:45:05 +0300447_us-ascii >
>
>On a related note, my husband and I have been discussing how to
>raise boys (we have 4, k9ehora) and how we want to teach them to
>behave in a strong way, rather than being so sensitive to everyone
>else that they forget to stand up for themselves. We read this
>interesting article which is not Jewish, but which give a different
>perspective on war and how we raise our sons.
>
>Cheers!
>Nechama [...]46_18Jun200723:45:05+0300anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL
2698 258 16_Re: a boy thing?13_Sharon Brooks23_Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:30:22 -0700542_iso-8859-1 My best friend growing up was quite a tomboy, so I'm not really intending to say that it's only a boy thing - despite the title. Why, even my step-daughter - now 13 1/2 - was long interested in things that were out of my realm as a child - such as police and firefighters. It's just that I had a more developed fem side and don't really understand how to parent this relatively new thing in my son. I know intellectually that inherently it's neither non-Jewish nor bad. I just don't know how to approach it positively. For me [...]45_18Jun200713:30:22-0700Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
2957 100 16_Re: a boy thing?0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:09:31 EDT382_US-ASCII I think it is an even-handed approach to teach that while at times, war was
necessary in Jewish history, the ideal is Torah study.
Remember the examples in our history...although Hashem comanded King David
to conducts wars, because he had shed blood he was not allowed to build the
Temple. That was for his son Shlomo (whose name means "peace") to do. [...]41_18Jun200715:09:31EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM
3058 69 16_Re: a boy thing?14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:56:09 +0300378_ISO-8859-1 I'm not recommending this for a little kid, but if you'd like to read about
the impact of war on one family, try www.shlomointheidf.blogspot.com. You
might find excerpts here and there that are useful to you.
If the writing style sounds familiar, it's because I wrote it last summer. I
only pray that I won't have to revive the blog this summer. [...]40_19Jun200701:56:09+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
3128 41 16_Re: a boy thing?14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 18:24:49 -0500340_iso-8859-1 I've heard it said that a child inclined to blood, war or the like could
be a great shochet or mohel if driven the right way. My DS 6 y.o. says he'd
love to be a shochet to help provide kosher meat. This is also my most
aggressive, energetic, and outgoing child.
~Mandy
B'H' Ima to 4 boys
2 mo-6 years [...]45_18Jun200718:24:49-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET
3170 42 16_Re: a boy thing?11_Nechama Cox20_nechama@BOREALIS.COM31_Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:04:52 -0400406_us-ascii Rachel Ann,
>You mean you wouldn't want your daughters to know how to stand up
>for themselves?
Not at all. Just that an interest in war is hard wired into most
boys, and we are not trying to go against that.
I am not worried at all about my daughter's ability to stand up for
herself. She may be the only girl in our family, but she holds her
own just fine. [...]42_18Jun200721:04:52-0400nechama@BOREALIS.COM
3213 94 21_boys will be boys....0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Jun 2007 08:00:19 EDT660_US-ASCII Picked up an interesting book at the library last night, thought the title
was intriguing, haven't read it yet, but I think it is relevant to this
discussion.
The book is called The radioactive boy scout: The true story of a boy and his
backyard nuclear reactor by Ken Silverstein.
I read the book jacket, though that this was about a typical homeschooler,
tinkering in the backyard shed....the kid was working on his boyscout atomic
energy badge....(quoting from the book jacket) "scavenging antique stores and
junkyards for old-fashioned smoke detectors and gas lanterns - both of which
contain small amounts [...]37_19Jun200708:00:19EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM
3308 175 25_Re: boys will be boys....14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:39:23 -0500455_iso-8859-1 LOL Sounds like my DS 6 y.o... Only he wants to build a space rocket in our garage!! :-)
~Mandy
----- Original Message -----
From: RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:00 AM
Subject: [TORCH-D] boys will be boys....
Picked up an interesting book at the library last night, thought the title was intriguing, haven't read it yet, but I think it is relevant to this discussion. [...]45_19Jun200713:39:23-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET
3484 242 25_Re: boys will be boys....13_Sharon Brooks23_Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:31:13 -0700553_iso-8859-1 Hah! Mine's been asking for instructions to build a space shuttle!
Sharon
----- Original Message -----
From: Mandy Oeschger
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] boys will be boys....
LOL Sounds like my DS 6 y.o... Only he wants to build a space rocket in our garage!! :-)
~Mandy
----- Original Message -----
From: RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 7:00 AM
Subject: [TORCH-D] boys will be boys.... [...]45_19Jun200713:31:13-0700Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
3727 314 25_Re: boys will be boys....14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:42:02 -0500360_iso-8859-1 LOL mine seems to have some kind of blueprint in his head already so I have to keep a close eye or two on him! Should we dare to let our boys meet lol?
Mandy in N. Fl
----- Original Message -----
From: Sharon Brooks
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] boys will be boys.... [...]45_19Jun200716:42:02-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET
4042 54 14_boys vs. girls10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Wed, 20 Jun 2007 08:36:31 +0300489_ISO-8859-1 Hi,
I'm wondering, since in the haredi school systems here in Israel the
boys curriculum and the girls curriculum are vastly different, if any
of you veteran homeschoolers differentiate much between what the boys
learn and what the girls learn.
It seems that in the non-haredi religious schools in Israel the girls
and boys learn more of the same material - I'm not sure what happens
when the boys start on Mishna and Gemara and the girls ...? [...]39_20Jun200708:36:31+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL
4097 75 21_re; boys will be boys0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:54:08 EDT366_US-ASCII rockets, space shuttles, etc. all this BOY energy to create is a good thing.
but I dare say you would probably be in the garage working with your kid on
these things.
read the first chapter of the book and it is already very clear, this kid was
not supervised in other spheres of his life as well, the adults were very
disconnected. [...]37_20Jun200706:54:08EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM
4173 33 32_Re: Boys will be boys And Girls?16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Wed, 20 Jun 2007 23:16:50 -0400654_us-ascii Hi
Been reading all this stuff about boy's urge to "create". But girls like
to create also. Creativity is not gender specific. In fact many schools
(e.g. Lubovitch) have "Challah creation classes." Some highschools have
finance classes. My Grandmother (after she grew up) went back to take
nutrition classes.
I think it is important to encourage creativity in both genders.
Personally as I read the postings I think the thing lacking is
"project-orientation." Kids (boys and girls) love to START a project but
then go on to another project. I would warmly recommending guiding them
to pick ONE project and [...]39_20Jun200723:16:50-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM
4207 50 7_sharing12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:29:39 -0700578_iso-8859-1 Brenda, we've found that when they aren't mature enough to share, or recognize the the difference between "mine" and "his", then they usually aren't sharing a good time, either. They're in their own little world, and we generally don't schedule special play dates particularly for them. Sure, they end up at someone's house with the family on Shabbos, or at the park with other kids, or being around siblings' playdates, but nothing set up specifically for them. Unless it seems like they are getting something out of it, we find it to be not worth the trouble. [...]43_21Jun200700:29:39-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM
4258 62 16_Re: a boy thing?12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:38:45 -0700572_iso-8859-1 I believe you are referring to
"As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl", by John Colapinto
Harry
Jun 2007 12:15:26 -0700
From: Avivah Werner
Subject: Re: a boy thing?
This discussion reminds me of a fascinating book that I read a couple of years ago - I really wish I could remember the title. (If someone knows what I'm referring to, please share the title.) It was about two boy twins, and a decision that was made to raise one as a girl and one as a boy due to a tragic medical error [...]43_21Jun200700:38:45-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM
4321 202 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Rachel Ann24_anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:18:10 +0300640_iso-8859-1 Although it really isn't a good case for nature
vs nurture, as the parents knew the child was a
boy genetically, and that would have to affect
how the child was raised. Moreover, in order to
maintain the correct "gender" characteristics, he
would have to have treatments etc.
The whole issue is really very complicated. The
only way to know for certain which (nature or
nurture) took precedence, would be to raise a
large number of children under emotional robots;
that is the robots could express normal emotions
but wouldn't take into account their gender in
any emotive way except [...]46_21Jun200716:18:10+0300anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL
4524 55 32_Re: Boys will be boys And Girls?14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:26:52 -0500673_ISO-8859-1 Actually it isnt a question of "creativity." My daughter is far more
artistic and creative than my son. But my son is really interested in
"blowing things up real good" and will expend any amount of ingenuity
thinking about it.
Bill Bernstein
Nashville TN.
Russell J Hendel wrote:
>Hi
>Been reading all this stuff about boy's urge to "create". But girls like
>to create also. Creativity is not gender specific. In fact many schools
>(e.g. Lubovitch) have "Challah creation classes." Some highschools have
>finance classes. My Grandmother (after she grew up) went back to take
>nutrition classes.
>
>I think [...]49_21Jun200708:26:52-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET
4580 117 32_Re: Boys will be boys And Girls?14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:09:56 +0300472_ISO-8859-1 Well said, Bill. That's pretty much what we've got, too. I don't know if
you've heard of this show, but you've got to try it:
Mythbusters.
If you do TV, this show is excellent (it's on the Discovery Channel.
Fortunately for those of us abroad, it's also on P2P networks). And they do
lots of explosives (did you know that the shock wave of a high explosive can
put out a fire? Learned that one last night from watching the show). [...]40_21Jun200717:09:56+0300malkie18@GMAIL.COM
4698 37 32_Re: Boys will be boys And Girls?10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:21:49 +0300492_ISO-8859-1 Bill Bernstein wrote:
> But my son is really interested in "blowing things up real good" and
> will expend any amount of ingenuity thinking about it.
>
You may or may not want to let him watch the youtube videos created by
SUNSHINErecorder, a bunch of college guys that just love to blow stuff
up. They are basically doing chemistry experiments on their own, like
throwing chunks of raw sodium into a bucket of water. Lots of hooting
and cheering. [...]39_21Jun200718:21:49+0300svkopp@012.NET.IL
4736 126 11_Re: sharing16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:42:40 -0700619_us-ascii That makes sense. Thanks, Harry.
Harry Broome wrote:
> Brenda, we've found that when they aren't mature enough to share, or
> recognize the the difference between "mine" and "his", then they
> usually aren't sharing a good time, either. They're in their own
> little world, and we generally don't schedule special play dates
> particularly for them. Sure, they end up at someone's house with the
> family on Shabbos, or at the park with other kids, or being around
> siblings' playdates, but nothing set up specifically for them. Unless
> it seems like they are getting [...]41_21Jun200708:42:40-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM
4863 106 32_Re: Boys will be boys And Girls?16_Eric & Lori Swim17_elswim@KITUSA.COM31_Thu, 21 Jun 2007 22:07:36 -0500627_ISO-8859-1 Hello,
I too have been reading this thread with great interest. I hearty agree
with the need for supervision and directing these male "creative" urges
into age appropriate channels -- for the good, of course. Our 8 (soon
to be 9) year old son LOVES to explore topics about things that go
crash, bang, or boom. He can tell you all about the mechanics of
automatic and semi-automatic pistols and rifles. He even has checked
out from the library books related to ballistics (lots of physics) and
black-powder loading and rifles (chemistry and physics). You should
have seen the look [...]39_21Jun200722:07:36-0500elswim@KITUSA.COM
4970 86 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Rachel Ann24_anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 22 Jun 2007 07:53:37 +0300462_us-ascii At 04:04 AM 6/19/2007, Nechama Cox wrote:
>Rachel Ann,
>
>>You mean you wouldn't want your daughters to know how to stand up
>>for themselves?
>
>Not at all. Just that an interest in war is hard wired into most
>boys, and we are not trying to go against that.
>
>I am not worried at all about my daughter's ability to stand up for
>herself. She may be the only girl in our family, but she holds her
>own just fine. [...]46_22Jun200707:53:37+0300anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL
5057 25 32_Re: Boys will be boys And Girls?10_Rachel Ann24_anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 22 Jun 2007 07:55:47 +0300531_us-ascii At this point the only chemistry my (basically sedate) daughter wants
to do is blow things up.
I need a good book. None of my others had this interest when they were young.
take care,
Rachel Ann
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]46_22Jun200707:55:47+0300anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL
5083 43 32_Re: Boys will be boys And Girls?18_Benjamin H Dickman27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:24:42 -0400672_UTF-8 Do a websearch on "diet coke and mentos" and look at YouTube videos.
This is related to the mathematics of surface area and fractals, for
you math teachers!
kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman
On 6/22/2007 12:55 AM, Rachel Ann wrote:
> At this point the only chemistry my (basically sedate) daughter wants
> to do is blow things up.
> I need a good book. None of my others had this interest when they were young.
>
> take care,
> Rachel Ann
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
> Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
> [...]49_22Jun200712:24:42-0400bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM
5127 33 33_Is there another Toyam out there?11_Nechama Cox20_nechama@BOREALIS.COM31_Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:24:12 -0400306_us-ascii So a random question --
Laya Jackson is staying here with us in Baltimore and we are having a
great time together.
But we had a discussion about the name Toyam, which is my son's
name, and whether anyone else on this list has a child named Toyam.
Any one?
Nechama42_23Jun200723:24:12-0400nechama@BOREALIS.COM
5161 37 37_Re: Is there another Toyam out there?14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Sat, 23 Jun 2007 22:47:21 -0500481_ISO-8859-1 Honestly I've never even heard the name before.
Bill Bernstein
Father to Gertrude, Viktor, and Gustav...
Nechama Cox wrote:
> So a random question --
>
> Laya Jackson is staying here with us in Baltimore and we are having a
> great time together.
>
> But we had a discussion about the name Toyam, which is my son's name,
> and whether anyone else on this list has a child named Toyam.
>
> Any one?
>
> Nechama
> [...]49_23Jun200722:47:21-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET
5199 61 47_Fw: [TORCH-D] Is there another Toyam out there?4_Laya17_tolife18@JUNO.COM29_Sun, 24 Jun 2007 03:54:38 GMT459_- Larry Beck, You out there? Somehow I remember that name associated with you... a vague
memory of another discussion?
Anyway, this Shabbos in Baltimore has been amazing. I highly recommend meeting other
people on this list in person if you haven't had a chance. I know people on this list from
Israel, Denver, Baltimore, California... It's wonderful to meet the others in person. What an
amazing group. Amazing parents, amazing kids! [...]37_24Jun200703:54:38GMTtolife18@JUNO.COM
5261 62 16_Re: a boy thing?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:14:54 -0700404_iso-8859-1 Thanks, this is the title I was referring to. And the doctor involved was the one Malkie mentioned, who had a lot of scary ideas that badly impacted many people.
Btw, I'm sorry I don't remember who commented on the need for medical/genetic treatments, but the boy referred to did in fact undergo surgeries and hormonal treatments, and it was an ideal nurture vs nature case study. [...]44_24Jun200717:14:54-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
5324 215 16_Re: a boy thing?10_Rachel Ann24_anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 24 Jun 2007 02:07:42 +0300530_iso-8859-1 If he had hormonal treatments this would indicate that
1) he knew there was something "different" about him.
2) estrogen/testosterone make less of a
difference to who we are as human beings than we think it does.
It is not an ideal study at all. The child was
not raised as a girl, he was raised as if he were
a girl. Everyone involved in his treatment, as
well as various family and friends, knew he was a
boy from birth, and this would have an affect on how he was raised culturally. [...]46_24Jun200702:07:42+0300anolick@NETVISION.NET.IL
5540 110 16_Re: a boy thing?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 25 Jun 2007 06:29:09 -0700414_iso-8859-1 You've made some good points, and I think you would enjoy reading the book and clarifying for yourself what the specifics were. I suppose there is no such thing as an ideal study since anyone in the situation would be raised 'as if', not 'as'. All involved felt this was as close to ideal as it gets in the real world (eg, identical twins, one raised male and one raised female from infancy, etc). [...]44_25Jun200706:29:09-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
5651 26 35_Nature vs Nurture--take it off-list14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:38:06 -0500633_ISO-8859-1 Hi,
After some consultation the powers that be have decided that this
discussion, while fascinating, is outside of the scope of the list and
has pretty well run its course. You are of course free to continue
amongst yourselves off-list.
Thanks
Bill Bernstein
Torch-D List Supreme Overlord.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]49_25Jun200709:38:06-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET
5678 67 55_July 16 Rally for release of kidnapped Israeli soldiers13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:14:17 -0700491_iso-8859-1 Please pass on this information. Attend, if you can.
Monday July 16, 2007 12 Noon
Dag Hammarskjold Plaza - First Avenue and 47th Street
This is a demonstration in support of Gilad Shalit, Ehud Goldwasser and Eldad Regev, the 3 Israeli soldiers, who were kidnapped 1 year ago by Hamas and Hizbollah.
I cannot say strongly enough how important it is that we get a good turnout for this event. If you are in NYC area, please make every effort to attend. [...]41_26Jun200709:14:17-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM
5746 57 27_The Fruits Of Homeschooling14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Wed, 27 Jun 2007 22:27:09 -0500428_ISO-8859-1 I have to admit right off I am a tremendous tease.
But the following are things my kids learned that they would never have
known without homeschooling.
1) Cherries are tubers, just like potatoes or turnips. They grow under
ground and are expensive because they are harvested with the help of
specially-trained pigs that root them out. This is why you sometimes
find pig hairs on your cherries. [...]49_27Jun200722:27:09-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET