1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d March 2007
2 246 28_Re: introduction (0.99/3.20)12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:36:00 -0700320_iso-8859-1 >>>My kids are encouraging me to start my 4.5 year old on academic work like reading and math, because he really seems to want to. But even if I did, I can't imagine him spending more than 15 minutes on each, at the most. >>>
Avivah,
What keeps your 4.5 year old occupied on a routine day? [...]41_28Feb200721:36:00-0700renaweisman@COX.NET
249 74 19_Re: occupying 4 yos13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 07:22:59 -0800520_iso-8859-1 I feel like I've been busted, LOL! Honestly, I wonder the same thing very often about what he does all day long; I should do a log one day just to answer that question :). I don't need to structure much for him, though I do make a conscious effort to spend time doing something just with him each day. I think it's a pretty normal dynamic for a young child in a house of bigger kids - he hangs out with them, plays with them, talks with them. It's because he watches them with such interest when they do [...]43_1Mar200707:22:59-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
324 123 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 18:15:13 +0200570_ISO-8859-1 Thank you Avivah for your great post. It is really helpful to beginners
like me to get a peak at how successful homeschoolers are doing it.
If anyone can comment on the following I will really appreciate it:
DD( has been home since Chanuah. She has started to routinely say she is
bored at home and wants to go back to school. The complaints started
when I cut off the computer games and moved the computer to my room.
There was a day or two of griping and then everything lightened up and
there was a lot less bickering and [...]38_1Mar200718:15:13+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
448 109 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 09:46:35 -0800548_iso-8859-1 I remember when I first started homeschooling, my dd, who was then 6, complained we were never learning anything. She was used to doing alot of routine seatwork in school (in kindergarten), and was very good at it. You have to learn to sell your ideas to your kids so they buy into what you want to do. I get excited about something, talk about how great it is, have discussions surrounding whatever I think is interesting - so of course the kids pick up on that. In this case, it meant I had to re-educate her about what education [...]43_1Mar200709:46:35-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
558 39 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:39:15 -0500633_iso-8859-1 For your daughter: have you tried thematic learning? Plan together a unit
of study that interests her. For example, Birds. This could involve a
nature walk, bird watching in the yard, origami birds, drawing/coloring
different types of birds, learning state birds, researching a rare bird,
etc.
Other units might be 5 senses, geometric shapes, pioneer days, Mary Cassatt
and so on. You combine art, music, reading, math, history to study these
subjects.
Another idea for academics without too m uch structure is to plan chunks of
time for a subject. Each week she has a list or chart of the [...]39_1Mar200712:39:15-0500ek2000@COMCAST.NET
598 321 28_Re: introduction (0.99/3.20)14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 12:41:07 -0500435_iso-8859-1 Kumon makes some nice "academic" skill workbooks for this age that are age appropriate and attractive.
You can also set him up with Montessori type "work" such as counting and sorting, matching, beading, folding, cutting, etc.
Evelyn
----- Original Message -----
From: Rena Weisman
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] introduction (0.99/3.20) [...]39_1Mar200712:41:07-0500ek2000@COMCAST.NET
920 126 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM30_Fri, 2 Mar 2007 00:47:33 +0200595_ISO-8859-1 I thought of something else we do that Sarah/anyone else might find useful
:-)
We are very unstructured, pretty much un-schoolers. However, in order to try
and have some sort of overview of what the kids are doing, and make sure
they are moving forward in various subjects/areas of interest/etc., I make a
chart for each child. Actually, we make it together. Across the top is the
date of the beginning of the week. Down the side are subjects/topics/things
the child wants to do, or I think they should do - we decide together what
goes on the chart. [...]41_2Mar200700:47:33+0200fox.louise@GMAIL.COM
1047 159 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 14:50:26 -0500481_ISO-8859-1 << DD( has been home since Chanuah. She has started to routinely say she is
> bored at home and wants to go back to school.>>
Alana also started this.....about 3 weeks into homeschooling though.
<> homeschooling is boring and she wouldn't have done it if she had known
> how boring it would be. She couldn't come up with any reason why she did
> want to do it in the first place, she got really uptight and I dropped it.>> [...]39_1Mar200714:50:26-0500cillakat@GMAIL.COM
1207 230 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?10_Louise Fox20_fox.louise@GMAIL.COM30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:25:54 +0200444_ISO-8859-1 Sarah,
I suggest you or your daughter or both together make a list of things to do
-- things she can do, should do, likes to do, could do....
Examples could include:
read a book
do a jigsaw puzzle
eat a carrot
hammer some nails
do 30 sit-ups
pull weeds in the garden
fold some laundry
write a letter to a friend/grandparent
jump up and down 50 times
draw a picture
bake muffins [...]41_1Mar200720:25:54+0200fox.louise@GMAIL.COM
1438 76 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 15:43:02 -0800589_iso-8859-1 >>Do I still wish I could do what Avivah is doing? yup. i do. but oh
well:) I can still wish it *and* _know_ to the core of my being that
what i'm doing is right for my personality/temperment and the
personality/temperment that my kids came with.<<
What is it that Avivah is doing do you wish you could do?? :) It's always interesting to hear how people perceive what I'm saying. I'm a pretty structured person by nature, but I don't impose much structure academically at a young age. There's enough natural structure (meals, chores, daily routines) in the [...]43_1Mar200715:43:02-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
1515 56 19_Hamantaschen recipe10_BETH YOUNT17_mayaniboy@MSN.COM30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 21:51:31 -0500613_- I guess it is a bit late for additional baking now, but here is my recipe.
I like it because it allows even my children (ages 9, 6.5, 5, and 3.5) to
make hamantaschen that are attractive enough to include in mishloach manot.
HAMANTASCHEN
½ cup + 1 tablespoon Earth Balance trans-fat-free stick shortening
1/8 cup vegetable oil (I use grapeseed oil)
1 egg
½ cup sugar + 2 tablespoons
2 tablespoons orange juice
2 cups unbleached white flour
3/4 cups whole wheat pastry flour (can use all white flour if you prefer)
1 teaspoon vanilla
1 teaspoon baking powder
[...]38_1Mar200721:51:31-0500mayaniboy@MSN.COM
1572 143 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 1 Mar 2007 23:03:04 -0500544_iso-8859-1 Hi Sarah,
I really like all the ideas you've already been given, and just want to add one more in:
I recently started using a three-drawer small plastic chest (shoe boxes would also work) for my three kids who are at home during the day. In my 9 y/o's drawer, I put her schedule for the day (her choice to have one, not mine), all the books she'll need, and a few "other" things. Sometimes a new magazine will come in the mail and I'll pop it in there. Louise suggested writing a friend a letter. If you wanted to [...]49_1Mar200723:03:04-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET
1716 39 10_lice......12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Fri, 2 Mar 2007 12:01:30 -0500336_us-ascii Lice is going around my kids' school. B"H none of my kids has it, but
there is someone in my daughter's class who just did. So... I'm
hoping someone can remind me about the most effective natural way to
deal with lice. (I've written about this for NJP but don't have time
to look back and read the old stuff!) [...]43_2Mar200712:01:30-0500njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM
1756 72 12_Re: boredom?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:08:56 EST517_US-ASCII I was on the phone with a homeschooling friend once, when one of her kids was
heard to complain: I'm bored!
to which her mom replied:
you know the drill, you can do some academic work, you can read for pleasure
or you can do housework!
really broad category response, but very focused too. gave the kid a choice,
but really only three choices, (four if you count finding an activity or
playing and the like but they generally don't need help to think about that
choice). [...]36_2Mar200711:08:56ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM
1829 92 14_Re: lice......13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 2 Mar 2007 11:27:46 -0800431_iso-8859-1 Tea tree oil is supposed to be a good repellent. The best thing I found (after dealing with daily for years in Israel) was constant combing with a lice comb. And constant checking. (After moving to the States, I realized that I had gotten into the habit of checking their hair every time they sat on my lap. It was so natural to me to do it that I never noticed that's what I did until it was no longer necessary.) [...]43_2Mar200711:27:46-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
1922 51 14_Re: lice......28_Jamie Rosenblum Lichtenstein25_jrosenbl@HSPH.HARVARD.EDU30_Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:56:02 -0500372_US-ASCII Standard therapy is a prescription shampoo from the doctor. Many lice are now resistant to one or more of the therapies available.
High heat can kill the lice so some people will spend extended time with a blow dryer after picking out as many knats as possible, but there's a risk of scalp burns with long enough treatment at high enough temperature. [...]46_2Mar200713:56:02-0500jrosenbl@HSPH.HARVARD.EDU
1974 193 14_Re: lice......5_Kelli33_Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 2 Mar 2007 13:25:17 -0500497_iso-8859-1 I would use tea tree oil, add some the wash, a drop or too to the shampoo, you can dilute in water and use as a spray (about 10 drops to a cup of H20). You can also use in their hair, G-d forbid they get it, Diatomaceous Earth (food grade only). This is just a white powder and it will kill them with a physical action rather than chemical and it is not toxic. I would try not to breath it anyway though, if I were you. Many people use this with their pets to kill mites and such. [...]54_2Mar200713:25:17-0500Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET
2168 80 14_Re: lice......17_tolife18@juno.com17_tolife18@JUNO.COM28_Sat, 3 Mar 2007 22:15:36 GMT537_- Lice is, unfortunately, epidemic in Israel. They say that Rosemary is good as a repellent. I love tea tree oil too. One friend of mine gets rid of lice as follows:
add some drops of essential oil of either rosemary or tea tree to hair conditioner. Put the conditioner on the dry hair until saturated, then put on a shower cap or wrap in plastic wrap and leave it in for two hours--this suffocates them. (you can do this with mayonaise too but it's not so lovely). Rinse and use a lice comb to comb well... this is nit picking! [...]36_3Mar200722:15:36GMTtolife18@JUNO.COM
2249 180 14_Re: lice......14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 4 Mar 2007 00:26:01 +0200586_ISO-8859-1 Moraz anti-lice shampoo from Israel is available in the States, all natural,
and good for prevention. It also really shines at getting rid of cradle cap
in older babies.
Oh, and it smells really good.
Malkie
On 3/2/07, Kelli wrote:
>
> I would use tea tree oil, add some the wash, a drop or too to the
> shampoo, you can dilute in water and use as a spray (about 10 drops to a cup
> of H20). You can also use in their hair, G-d forbid they get it,
> Diatomaceous Earth (food grade only). This is [...]39_4Mar200700:26:01+0200malkie18@GMAIL.COM
2430 363 14_Re: lice......5_Kelli33_Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 4 Mar 2007 12:22:57 -0500275_iso-8859-1 Another EO I just thought of is neem oil. It is supposed to be soothing as well. That may a good one to keep on hand as well. Not sure if my last email ever came through, but I suggestion Tea Tree Oil and food grade DE (Diatomaceous earth)
Kelli Armes [...]54_4Mar200712:22:57-0500Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET
2794 62 9_Re: lice?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Sun, 4 Mar 2007 20:44:22 EST322_US-ASCII rosemary shampoo, use as a preventive. Shampoo once weekly with rosemary and
then rinse.
my kid has nightmare hair to check, she uses rosemary, no nits, not since she
was a baby! this, even when there are outbreaks at school (she is the only
one of my 5 who has consistently been in school). [...]36_4Mar200720:44:22ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM
2857 31 14_Re: lice......12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Mon, 5 Mar 2007 01:57:34 -0500299_us-ascii Thank you so much to all who responded with such helpful advice. I am
passing everything along to my friend, and keeping it on file for
myself (and for a possible NJP article, now that I think of it - but
I will contact people privately to ask permission to use their ideas). [...]43_5Mar200701:57:34-0500njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM
2889 76 14_Re: lice......14_Amber Vilensky25_brilliant.adiya@GMAIL.COM30_Mon, 5 Mar 2007 11:42:56 -0500623_ISO-8859-1 The easiest (not to mention pretty cheap and fun) way we found to get rid of
lice, was hair dye!
On 3/5/07, Yael Resnick wrote:
>
> Thank you so much to all who responded with such helpful advice. I am
> passing everything along to my friend, and keeping it on file for
> myself (and for a possible NJP article, now that I think of it - but
> I will contact people privately to ask permission to use their ideas).
>
> Yael
>
> --
> Yael Resnick
> Publisher/Editor, Natural Jewish Parenting
> http://www.natural-jewish-parenting.com
[...]46_5Mar200711:42:56-0500brilliant.adiya@GMAIL.COM
2966 45 27_Re: occupying 4 yos - 9yos?10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL30_Tue, 6 Mar 2007 17:56:49 +0200574_ISO-8859-1 Just quickly want to say THANKS! for all the great suggestions. I will
be trying out some of them for sure. Clearly like all other aspects of
parenting, homeschooling is best when the various parents and children
do it in the way that suits them best, we are all so different.
I did have a revelation I'd like to share - my bored daughter was giving
me a hidden message: "You aren't paying enough attention to me." I
realized that most of her dissatisfaction was because part of her (when
she was in school and I was working late so [...]38_6Mar200717:56:49+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
3012 198 16_Re: Tea tree oil10_BETH YOUNT17_mayaniboy@MSN.COM30_Tue, 6 Mar 2007 08:06:56 -0500444_- I recently read an article in a scientific journal ( I don't remember which
one) that found a link between use of tea tree oil in large amounts (as a
body cleaning agent and household cleanser) and the development of enlarged
breasts in adolescent boys. I believe they found a similar connection with
lavender. The hypothesis is that these have an effect on hormonal signals,
but no one is sure about the exact mechanism. [...]38_6Mar200708:06:56-0500mayaniboy@MSN.COM
3211 48 16_Re: Tea tree oil8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM30_Tue, 6 Mar 2007 14:24:15 -0500525_ISO-8859-1 On 3/6/07, BETH YOUNT wrote:
> I recently read an article in a scientific journal ( I don't remember which
> one) that found a link between use of tea tree oil in large amounts (as a
> body cleaning agent and household cleanser) and the development of enlarged
> breasts in adolescent boys. I believe they found a similar connection with
> lavender. The hypothesis is that these have an effect on hormonal signals,
> but no one is sure about the exact mechanism.
>>>> [...]39_6Mar200714:24:15-0500cillakat@GMAIL.COM
3260 28 19_ot: yom tov clothes25_Michael and Nadine Postol20_mnpostol@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 6 Mar 2007 16:18:39 -0500503_ISO-8859-1 Does anyone know of a good web site for tzniut clothes for girls? I've
started looking for my 8 yr old daughter and can't find anything
suitable ;) I've looked at some of the local frum owned places (Mostly
basements) and the things they are showing isn't my (or my daughters')
taste. I like a clean, quiet, classic look, in nautral fiber, either
cotton or linen. If anyone can point me to something, I'd appreciate
it. (This is the time when I wish I learned to sew!) [...]41_6Mar200716:18:39-0500mnpostol@COMCAST.NET
3289 63 23_Re: ot: yom tov clothes12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET30_Tue, 6 Mar 2007 15:41:42 -0700392_iso-8859-1 I also run into issues finding suitable clothes for my daughters...you might
try the website www.belowtheknee.com (I've never bought anyhthing from
them but it is a frum woman who started the business b/c she couldn't find
clothes for her girls...)
Also, if you have a Burlington Coat Factory near you, I sometimes find great
things there for my daughters. [...]40_6Mar200715:41:42-0700renaweisman@COX.NET
3353 59 23_Re: ot: yom tov clothes17_tolife18@juno.com17_tolife18@JUNO.COM28_Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:22:01 GMT642_- Also, you can try http://www.sewmodestclothing.com/ where you'll find links to other places to buy clothes (and support a yid!).
b'sorot tovot,
Laya
Author of the best loved book for teens
"You Don't Have to Learn Everything the Hard Way"
www.AuntLaya.com
www.tinyurl.com/92up5
www.auntlaya.blogspot.com
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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_7Mar200707:22:01GMTtolife18@JUNO.COM
3413 65 23_Re: ot: yom tov clothes6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 6 Mar 2007 17:09:41 -0700396_US-ASCII We made out like bandits at Wal-Mart! I can't say that we found yom tov
clothes, but plenty of weekday long skirts, long-sleeve blouses and tees as
well as sleeveless sundresses (that can have a shirt underneath). This is
the spring line of clothing that is still modest compared to the tank-tops
and minis that come out in the summer - even for 5 year-olds. Good luck! [...]41_6Mar200717:09:41-0700najova@EARTHLINK.NET
3479 26 10_yt clothes15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:35:16 -0700757_- Shoshana,
If they don't have it at Walmart.....we don't need it:)
michelle
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For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/46_7Mar200707:35:16-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM
3506 28 7_clothes15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 7 Mar 2007 07:38:53 -0700522_- With new sewing machines under $100. (Walmart) and beautiful fabrics on
sale, I have been sewing skirts for my daughter for about $5.00 in an hour.
She enjoys choosing the material, we put in long hems, and I feel like such
a balabusta; (not).
michelle
_________________________________________________________________
Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate
new payment
http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581 [...]46_7Mar200707:38:53-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM
3535 59 41_new Pesach children's book now available!13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 7 Mar 2007 09:36:33 -0800320_iso-8859-1 Some of you asked to be notified when my husband's book for children on the plague of frogs came out, so here's the official announcement. :) There were unfortunately delays in the printing (in Hong Kong), so the first shipment just arrived yesterday. But fortunately it's still here in time for Pesach! [...]43_7Mar200709:36:33-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
3595 86 11_Re: clothes14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM30_Wed, 7 Mar 2007 17:39:47 +0200482_ISO-8859-1 If you are going to buy a sewing machine, do yourself a favor and get a
really old Bernina or other excellent brand. It won't cost you much more
than a new machine from Walmart, but you'll be working with a fabulous
quality machine. It will make a difference to your final outcome-- and that
used machine will most likely serve you longer than any new one (even of the
"good" brands). You should be able to get one at your local sewing & vac
shop. [...]39_7Mar200717:39:47+0200malkie18@GMAIL.COM
3682 23 39_involving young children in pesach prep15_Sharon Schwartz23_sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:02:00 -0500386_iso-8859-1 Is anyone having real success in involving young children in all the assorted
jobs of getting ready for Pesach? With three at home, i can't exactly ignore
them for the month from Purim to Pesach, but somehow, I feel like I'm
exhausting myself trying to bail water out of a boat with a big hole. They
seem to be messing it up faster the more I clean. Help!!! [...]45_15Mar200700:02:00-0500sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
3706 66 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 14 Mar 2007 22:26:36 -0700550_iso-8859-1 I'm a big believer in all working together as a family to get things done. What I'm doing/did for this year is, I told the kids that this week and next will be a light week academically, that my focus is on cleaning for Pesach. This takes the pressure off of me and the kids likewise adjust their expectations. I plan to basically do all of the house in these two weeks (we're turning the kitchen over a week early to accomodate my older girls' Pesach baking business); I've never liked drawing out the cleaning. It just makes it too [...]44_14Mar200722:26:36-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
3773 62 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:34:11 +0200422_ISO-8859-1 Sharon Schwartz wrote:
> Is anyone having real success in involving young children in all the assorted
> jobs of getting ready for Pesach? With three at home, i can't exactly ignore
> them for the month from Purim to Pesach, but somehow, I feel like I'm
> exhausting myself trying to bail water out of a boat with a big hole. They
> seem to be messing it up faster the more I clean. Help!!! [...]39_15Mar200714:34:11+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
3836 45 39_involving young children in pesach prep14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 06:15:17 -0700550_iso-8859-1 I make 3 lists -- what must be done (get rid of all
chameitz from the house, put the kitniyot in one area
and close it off, sweep/vacuum all the house, wash
floors, clean fridge, stovetop, oven and sink, kasher,
clean the car, etc), what would be a good idea to do
(move the fridge and oven and clean behind them, clear
out and clean cabinets so we can put in pesach stuff
and not just close them etc), and what I want to do to
(clean out the toys rather than putting them away,
wash all the tablecloths in [...]45_15Mar200706:15:17-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM
3882 38 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 14:53:49 +0200550_ISO-8859-1 Avivah Werner wrote:
> I've never liked drawing out the cleaning. It just makes it too
> hard, and honestly, I don't find that once I get started that Pesach
> cleaning really takes that long. We did all of the bedrooms and one
> bathroom in two days. I don't like spending more than two hours a day
> on Pesach cleaning, though on Sunday (it was the first day cleaning)
> we did have something like a four hour marathon.
Have you managed to train your kids to keep the house tidy as they go?
How? The regular [...]39_15Mar200714:53:49+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
3921 78 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep13_Sharon Brooks23_Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 10:07:04 -0700610_iso-8859-1 I hear anew each year that the point is chametz removal, not spring
cleaning. But I, too, find my place too cluttered for that to be realistic.
I do try some version of zone cleaning throughout the year, but I'm sure you
know how it goes. Things come up: belligerance, extra time out of the
house, engrossing activities, slow days, needy baby, exhausted mommy. And
of course, my kids scatter random items throughout the house and yard
continually. Honestly, I still haven't figured out how to give my children
dedicated academic time or personal time each day and still do [...]45_15Mar200710:07:04-0700Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
4000 42 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:14:25 -0500569_us-ascii Sarah wrote:
>1) Your house does not have to be clean for Pesach, it has to
>be chametz-free. In 20 years when you are a grandparent it
>can also be clean if you still care about that :)
Amein v'amein!
Just repeat the mantra as you clean: "Dust is not chametz.
Dust is not chametz."
Also, if finances allow, this is really the one time a year to
splurge on a little cleaning help. We never get a cleaning
person the rest of the year, but last year, I had a committee
meeting for my thesis right around Pesach, my [...]42_15Mar200712:14:25-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU
4043 77 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 11:30:52 -0700359_iso-8859-1 The house stays in reasonable condition if I stay on top of things and make sure everyone does what they're supposed to do when they're supposed to do it. The last couple of weeks I've been mentally very preoccupied and when that happens, I don't manage everyone as well as usual. So things don't look as good in that scenario as they should. [...]44_15Mar200711:30:52-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
4121 32 30_Re: Pesach and little Children16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:40:36 -0400391_us-ascii Hi
I always wondered why we get children to so eagerly help with "decorating
the succah" but dont use the same tactics for the seder.
So my ideas are tell the children that they are in charge of "setting up
the table" with symbolic reminders and finding out the right way to
position the items (and of course they are in charge of stealing the
afikoman). [...]39_15Mar200719:40:36-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM
4154 60 30_Re: Pesach and little Children13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 21:46:15 -0700367_iso-8859-1 Great point, Russell.
As I believe Stephen Covey wrote, "No involvement, no commitment" - this is a general philosophy with children that I believe in. My kids set up the entire seder - they put out the seder plate, bowls of charoses, salt water, grape juice, etc - there's nothing like getting ready for a chag to feel the spirit of the chag. [...]44_15Mar200721:46:15-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
4215 141 18_kid friendly seder17_tolife18@juno.com17_tolife18@JUNO.COM29_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 09:16:03 GMT591_- I've probably posted this before but for new folks on the list:
we have a Seder full of props, mostly around the 10 plagues. Here's what we use:
plastic frogs
headbands with big praying mantises on the tops (poetic license))
giant plastic locusts
we started with a gross of plastic flies for lice, no telling how many are left. spread all over the table makes a point.
pom poms (craft store) for hail
plastic lions, tigers and bears (oh my) for wild animals also some finger puppets that were more popular when the kids were smaller
plastic live stock
dark [...]37_16Mar200709:16:03GMTtolife18@JUNO.COM
4357 28 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 15:42:29 -0500721_- >
>Just repeat the mantra as you clean: "Dust is not chametz.
>Dust is not chametz."
In my house I also tell myself: "Dog hair is not chametz!"
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Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]50_15Mar200715:42:29-0500rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM
4386 68 30_Re: Pesach and little Children13_Sharon Brooks23_Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 15 Mar 2007 22:31:39 -0700599_iso-8859-1 I grew up in a traditional/conservative home, but preparation for Pesach
and the seder was very definitely a whole family project. Even as young
children, we helped turn the kitchen over. We all were part of cooking
seder foods and took joy in using traditional family recipes and utensils.
The children prepared the seder table, served the food, cleared and washed
dishes. Of course there was participation in the seder itself. These
memories were so rich for me that even during some years when I felt distant
from Torah, I couldn't help but yearn for Pesach. [...]45_15Mar200722:31:39-0700Sharonajb@SBCGLOBAL.NET
4455 33 22_Re: kid friendly seder10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:13:00 +0200559_ISO-8859-1 tolife18@juno.com wrote:
>
> I've probably posted this before but for new folks on the list:
> we have a Seder full of props, mostly around the 10 plagues. Here's
> what we use:
>
Wow! What great ideas! I am soooo glad I found this list. My bigger kids
grew up hating the seder - long and boring and they were too hungry
through the whole thing. My husband hated the fact that they hated it,
and became more angry and militaristic about enforcing good behavior
every year. This year I hope to turn it all around. [...]39_16Mar200716:13:00+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
4489 108 15_pesach and dogs17_tolife18@juno.com17_tolife18@JUNO.COM29_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:34:52 GMT424_- And sometimes when I'm cleaning, I call my doggie over to see if she's interested in what I just found behind the fridge or what ever. Even if she's not, I clean it up anyway while I'm in the neighborhood. :-)
Laya
Author of the best loved book for teens
"You Don't Have to Learn Everything the Hard Way"
www.AuntLaya.com
www.tinyurl.com/92up5
www.auntlaya.blogspot.com
Audio book available! [...]37_16Mar200714:34:52GMTtolife18@JUNO.COM
4598 48 22_Re: kid friendly seder6_suelap20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:41:58 -0700362_us-ascii >>>Wow! What great ideas! I am soooo glad I found this list. My bigger kids
grew up hating the seder - long and boring and they were too hungry
through the whole thing. My husband hated the fact that they hated it,
and became more angry and militaristic about enforcing good behavior
every year. This year I hope to turn it all around. [...]42_16Mar200710:41:58-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET
4647 78 22_Re: kid friendly seder11_Rick Dinitz16_dinitz@TIBCO.COM31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 11:31:38 -0700493_us-ascii Sarah wrote:
...militaristic about enforcing good behavior...
Most kids (and more than a few adults) can't sit still for hours on end.
Before we start, we tell the kids that when they need to move around,
they can refill the water pitchers, read or play quietly nearby. They
know we'll call them back to the table for the passages that are
important to them or to us -- kushyot, kosot, plagues, the math game,
dayenu, matzah, barech, hallel, songs, etc. [...]38_16Mar200711:31:38-0700dinitz@TIBCO.COM
4726 79 22_Re: kid friendly seder13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:01:16 -0700360_iso-8859-1 Something I'm very much aware of also having the negative potential for enjoyment of the seder is exhaustion. Too many people go into yom tov worn out from all the preparations. So we make sure that everyone takes a nap the afternoon of the seder - including adults. It makes a very big difference to start off with everyone feeling refreshed. [...]44_16Mar200713:01:16-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
4806 199 19_Re: pesach and dogs5_Kelli33_Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:58:40 -0400436_iso-8859-1 My dog goes a step farther, she makes it her life mission to clean out under the stove, in the couch, behind the frig, etc.
So if your dog passes up some of the goodies, I can send my crew over.
:)
Kelli Armes
and the Terriers
----- Original Message -----
From: tolife18@juno.com
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 10:34 AM
Subject: [TORCH-D] pesach and dogs [...]55_16Mar200715:58:40-0400Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET
5006 74 19_Re: pesach and dogs18_Benjamin H Dickman27_bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:29:14 -0400597_UTF-8 bs'd
Nothing like a doggie to poskin if something is "raui l'akhilath kelev"
(food-like enough for a dog to actually eat it; this is an actual
criterion for whether something is actually chametz or "dust".
Benzion Dickman
On 3/16/2007 10:34 AM, tolife18@juno.com wrote:
> And sometimes when I'm cleaning, I call my doggie over to see if she's
> interested in what I just found behind the fridge or what ever. Even if
> she's not, I clean it up anyway while I'm in the neighborhood. :-)
>
> Laya
>
>
> Author of the best loved book for [...]49_16Mar200716:29:14-0400bdickman@ALCATEL-LUCENT.COM
5081 43 19_Re: pesach and dogs10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 18:29:50 -0400324_us-ascii Benzion,
I know the Gamorah says this is the way to test but it is really hard to
poskin from this. I have two dogs, one eats anything and everything. The
other is picky and doesn't eat much. My yeatzer harah is to use the picky
one for all the tests.
Have a good Shabbos,
Larry Beck [...]41_16Mar200718:29:50-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM
5125 48 19_Re: pesach and dogs14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 17:36:07 -0500447_ISO-8859-1 There's a story about a woman who got something like a cake in the mail
for Pesach. She called Reb Moshe zt'l to ask what to do. He told her
to put it in the garage and pour bleach on it. This was it wasn't "roey
l'achilas kelev" (fit for a dog's consumption).
She called him back even more upset. She had done what he said and her
dog ate the food anyway.
He told her
"Fun a meshugina hund mir posken nicht." [...]49_16Mar200717:36:07-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET
5174 122 19_Re: pesach and dogs14_Hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:57:22 -0700623_iso-8859-1 What do people do about their dogs and birds on
Pesach? thank you....Hadas
--- Benjamin H Dickman
wrote:
> bs'd
>
> Nothing like a doggie to poskin if something is
> "raui l'akhilath kelev"
> (food-like enough for a dog to actually eat it; this
> is an actual
> criterion for whether something is actually chametz
> or "dust".
>
> Benzion Dickman
>
> On 3/16/2007 10:34 AM, tolife18@juno.com wrote:
> > And sometimes when I'm cleaning, I call my doggie
> over to see if she's
> > interested in what I just found behind [...]42_16Mar200715:57:22-0700hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET
5297 233 22_Re: kid friendly seder14_Malkie Swidler18_malkie18@GMAIL.COM31_Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:04:19 +0200590_ISO-8859-1 Living in Israel means easily available kosher l'pesach kitniyot!! We eat
hummus & tehina & other kitniyot yummies the day of seder. We don't eat them
on the holiday, obviously, but until then they are fair game even for
ashkenazim!
We serve a GIANT plate of french fries with ketchup for karpas. The kids
love it. We also throw candies at anyone who asks a question (even an
irrelevant question) and throw candies at anyone who gives an answer to a
relevant question... we throw a lot of candy. Some years it looks more like
a bar mitzvah or an [...]40_17Mar200721:04:19+0200malkie18@GMAIL.COM
5531 372 19_Re: pesach and dogs5_Kelli33_Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 17 Mar 2007 21:27:04 -0400316_iso-8859-1 Do you mean regarding the chametz?
My dogs are raw fed, and get no grains anyway, so no worries there. My birds get seed mixture (that I mix myself) so I know exactly what is and what is not in there and could easily adjust it, if necessary, for Pesach.
Kelli Armes
and the Terriers [...]55_17Mar200721:27:04-0400Natural_Irish_Terrier@COMCAST.NET
5904 31 19_Re: pesach and dogs8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Sat, 17 Mar 2007 23:30:12 -0330345_ISO-8859-1 << Do you mean regarding the chametz?
>
> My dogs are raw fed, and get no grains anyway, so no worries there.>>
Same here. My dogs get chicken necks or chicken backs (raw), raw
veggies run through my juicer (juice/pulp mixed then frozen in cubes),
occasional organ meats and raw tripe.
Same for my cat. [...]40_17Mar200723:30:12-0330cillakat@GMAIL.COM
5936 34 19_Re: pesach and dogs14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Sat, 17 Mar 2007 22:47:03 -0500603_us-ascii >What do people do about their dogs and birds on
>Pesach? thank you....Hadas
[and for cats:]
Buy food before the final time for chametz, and read the
ingredients. It should have no chametz ingredients (kitniyot
is OK. And --year round-- no basar b'chalav mamash (i.e. milk
and beef, milk and lamb; milk and poultry is OK to feed to
animals). For dogs and cats, this usually means getting canned
food instead of dry for the chag. For more explicit
instructions, and a list of pet foods that meet these criteria
in a given year, check out the OU or CRC [...]42_17Mar200722:47:03-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU
5971 94 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Sun, 18 Mar 2007 12:18:03 +0200566_ISO-8859-1 Sharon, When I read your description of your situation I thought it was
me! Except you have only younger kids - I wouldn't be worrying about any
dedicated academic time with those ages. Avivah sounds like she's really
got her life in order, and I really appreciate the detailed descriptions
of how she things get done. I'm trying to improve our situation and
de-clutter etc - I tell myself "If Avivah can do it, so can you!"
(Avivah - if I ever get enough money to go back to the states for a
visit I'll be in Baltimore so maybe [...]39_18Mar200712:18:03+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
6066 31 19_Re: pesach and dogs17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 18 Mar 2007 07:57:49 -0400383_- >From: Benjamin H Dickman >bs'd
>
>Nothing like a doggie to poskin if something is "raui l'akhilath kelev"
>(food-like enough for a dog to actually eat it; this is an actual
>criterion for whether something is actually chametz or "dust".
>
Unfortunately, my dog enjoys eating (more like chewing on) candles, so I
don't think he's a reliable source:-) [...]50_18Mar200707:57:49-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM
6098 91 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 18 Mar 2007 11:23:34 -0700402_iso-8859-1 Oh, gosh, now I'm worried that I've said something to misrepresent myself. The dangers of the internet. I'm far from perfect, and am constantly working to find better ways to do things. As I said, my standards and expectations of myself are in line; that's how it all works well for me; I think that's my main secret. So if you save the money for a trip to the US, go somewhere fun! :) [...]44_18Mar200711:23:34-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
6190 93 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 18 Mar 2007 14:21:26 -0700592_US-ASCII > I am going to try giving out extra hugs and thank
> yous.
I'm telling you this really works! When my kids want to get a reward for
something they get a "kissy prize" from mommy or extra snuggling time on the
couch. Now my crew is still young, but I think this can work for everyone.
Children actually crave and need physical contact with parents including
praise with eye-contact, hugs, kisses, back-rubs, etc. Even older children
will respond to this once they get past feeling "silly." I believe that a
lot of the hostile energy we sometimes see [...]42_18Mar200714:21:26-0700najova@EARTHLINK.NET
6284 46 19_Re: pesach and dogs10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:48:40 +0200427_ISO-8859-1 Hadas laureano wrote:
> What do people do about their dogs and birds on
> Pesach? thank you....Hadas
>
>
The thing to remember with pets is you can own kitniyos and feed it to
your animals even if you are not noheg to eat it. We don't eat "gebroks"
so I don't give andy of the animals matza though you can give birds
small amounts of it or mix it with other foods if that's your minhag. [...]39_18Mar200708:48:40+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
6331 120 19_Re: pesach and dogs16_Brenda Goldstein19_lioness31@CA.RR.COM31_Sun, 18 Mar 2007 17:12:11 -0700654_us-ascii California Naturals makes canned (and dry, I think) food with no chametz.
Brenda
Jennifer Moran wrote:
>>What do people do about their dogs and birds on
>>Pesach? thank you....Hadas
>>
>>
>
>[and for cats:]
>
>Buy food before the final time for chametz, and read the
>ingredients. It should have no chametz ingredients (kitniyot
>is OK. And --year round-- no basar b'chalav mamash (i.e. milk
>and beef, milk and lamb; milk and poultry is OK to feed to
>animals). For dogs and cats, this usually means getting canned
>food instead of dry for the chag. For more explicit
>instructions, [...]41_18Mar200717:12:11-0700lioness31@CA.RR.COM
6452 60 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep6_Shayna17_ssheiny@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:45:18 -0700567_iso-8859-1 I can periodically get my kids to work, but mostly
they just stand there and complain. We're working on
it, but it's hard to enjoy working with them when
they're busy kvetching.
Although I did take a page out of your book, Avivah
and told my eldest that she needed to help with the
Pesach cleaning. Her room is already done, so she
asked what she could do. I suggested wiping down the
bathroom - nixed right away. So (here's the page from
your book) I said that I was just going to wipe down
all the cabinets and she [...]39_20Mar200711:45:18-0700ssheiny@YAHOO.COM
6513 55 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep10_Sarah Kopp17_svkopp@012.NET.IL31_Tue, 20 Mar 2007 21:23:46 +0200577_ISO-8859-1 Shayna wrote:
> I can periodically get my kids to work, but mostly
> they just stand there and complain. We're working on
> it, but it's hard to enjoy working with them when
> they're busy kvetching.
>
>
Today I had 4 kids do all the bookcases in the study (3 overstuffed
ones). They complained quite a bit at first, then when they got to work
they bickered the whole time but it was really quite funny: imagine an
assembly line of kids taking books down, wiping shelves, wiping books
and shaking them out and putting them back [...]39_20Mar200721:23:46+0200svkopp@012.NET.IL
6569 91 54_Re: involving young children in pesach prep, kvetching13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:14:36 -0700543_iso-8859-1 Congratulations, Sarah! It's amazing how fast and well kids can work when they're motivated!! It sounds like it was a nice day for everyone.
About kvetching (not directed to Sarah, just a general comment) - I don't personally like to listen to it so I actively discourage it. I try to do what I need to do in the course of a day cheerfully, even if I don't feel like it, and that's a middah I want my kids to develop. So if someone complains in some way, they have just earned themselves more work so they have a chance [...]44_20Mar200714:14:36-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM
6661 107 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 20 Mar 2007 19:09:42 -0400560_- My kids are also usually resistant to work together. They usually work
better when there is a parent helping, but for Pesach they were having a lot
of problems getting motivated. Their main complaint was that the areas that
needed cleaning were not their fault, therefore not their responsibility, as
opposed to cleaning their room, which is usually their own mess. We
continually try to express to them that we all have to work together,
regardless of who or what the reason for the job is, but it's difficult to
get them to work. [...]50_20Mar200719:09:42-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM
6769 83 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:04:43 -0500518_us-ascii If I ask my kids to help clean, their reflex response is generally
no. Once in a while someone gets inspired and asks me for a job at
some random time during the day - especially if they see me involved
in some cleaning thing or they are just really bored - and that's
great when it happens (that's how my daughter straightened the living
room the other day, and yesterday my son volunteered to clean my
husband's car - which involved dragging the vacuum cleaner over ice
and snow). [...]44_20Mar200720:04:43-0500njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM
6853 53 43_Re: involving young children in pesach prep6_Shayna17_ssheiny@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:22:18 -0700569_iso-8859-1 Yael and everyone - thanks for all the great ideas!
We'll see what ends up working with the kids!
Along the lines of your "mini-jobs", Yael, I've found
that my DD is more likely to pick up in her room if I
make it more fun - we usually color code the chores.
That is - pick up all the white (or black, red, green,
yellow, or when we're feeling creative, violet,
magenta, beige, etc.) items and put them away. She'll
do it and come back to me for another color, sometimes
laughing at what she had to pick-up, sometimes
[...]39_20Mar200720:22:18-0700ssheiny@YAHOO.COM
6907 66 19_Re: pesach and dogs13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 21 Mar 2007 20:20:52 -0700334_iso-8859-1 >>What do people do about their dogs and birds on
Pesach? thank you....Hadas<<
I look for brands without chametz. Brewers yeast, a common ingredient, is also chametz. Here is what I found for this year. (You always have to check because the formulae change periodically) I got them at the local supermarket. [...]41_21Mar200720:20:52-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM
6974 47 26_need a break--have a laugh9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:37:28 -0700616_ISO-8859-1 Chag Sameah everybody:
I needed a break and went to ou radio and I couldn't stop laughing at Judy
Gruen's "Just off my noodle" and I thought some of you might need a short
break and something to laugh about, Here is the link:
Beth
http://www.ouradio.org/ouradio/channel/C730
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Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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7022 121 12_school humor17_tolife18@juno.com17_tolife18@JUNO.COM29_Thu, 29 Mar 2007 04:57:51 GMT502_- Early one morning, a mother went in to wake up her son.
"Wake up, son. It's time to go to school."
"But why, Mom? I don't want to go."
"Give me two reasons why you don't want to go."
"Well, the kids hate me for one, and the teachers hate me, too!"
"Oh, that's no reason not to go to school. Come on now and get ready."
"Give me two reasons why I should go to school."
"Well, for one, you're 52 years old. And for another, you're the Principal!" [...]37_29Mar200704:57:51GMTtolife18@JUNO.COM