1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d September 2006 2 362 20_Re: age appropriate?14_hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 20:08:43 -0700392_iso-8859-1 What an absolutely beautiful thing to say and to feel about your children....i read it to my daughter who is 9 and she commented that you must really love and appreciate your children!! all the best...Hadas
----- Original Message -----
From: Laya B Jackson
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] age appropriate? [...]42_31Aug200620:08:43-0700hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET 365 57 40_dealing with a perfectionist 4 year old?15_Rachel Gurevich25_rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 00:50:32 +0200482_ISO-8859-1 Hello,

I was wondering if anyone has advice for me...

My almost-five-year old is a serious perfectionist. For example, he
wanted to draw pictures of pirates. He took a cup and used it to trace
a circle, but when he tried, sometimes, the cup slipped, making his
circle less than perfect -- leading to tears, crying, and frustration.
No amount of me or his 7-yr old brother telling him it's ok, it
doesn't have to be perfect, etc, helped. [...]46_3Sep200600:50:32+0200rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM 423 95 44_Re: dealing with a perfectionist 4 year old?12_Yonit Kasten22_jillkasten@CHARTER.NET30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:40:27 -0400532_ISO-8859-1 Hi Rachel,

I also have a 5yo who is a major perfectionist. Unfortunately, I can
commiserate with you more than anything else. I think I mentioned the
other day that it took her over a year to potty train. She would come
to me - on her own - and say she wanted to use the potty, be dry for a
few days and then have an accident, and you would have thought the world
was going to end. She wouldn't get near the potty again for months, and
then it would start all over again. And it wasn't like [...]43_2Sep200621:40:27-0400jillkasten@CHARTER.NET 519 115 44_Re: dealing with a perfectionist 4 year old?18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:00:54 -0400572_us-ascii Yonit, Rachel,

We did well with the Magic School Bus series because Ms. Frizzle's
motto is "get messy, take chances, make mistakes!".
My kids calmed down a lot after watching 20 of them.

kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman

On 9/2/2006 9:40 PM, Yonit Kasten wrote:
> Hi Rachel,
>
> I also have a 5yo who is a major perfectionist. Unfortunately, I can
> commiserate with you more than anything else. I think I mentioned the
> other day that it took her over a year to potty train. She would come
> to me - on her own - and [...]40_2Sep200622:00:54-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 635 40 44_Re: dealing with a perfectionist 4 year old?0_22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:50:34 -0400321_us-ascii I also have a highly perfectionistic 5-year-old daughter! Here are some quick thoughts:

Similar to what Yonit said about having a mantra of sorts: I repeat certain ideas to my daughter frequently, and they are starting to sink in (she has started to say them to me instead of me saying them to her): [...]43_2Sep200622:50:34-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 676 103 44_Re: dealing with a perfectionist 4 year old?9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 21:05:51 -0700626_ISO-8859-1 One thing you might try is catching yourself at your own perfectionism and
have your child see you changing your behavior about it. Kids are wonderful
immitators.
Beth

On 9/2/06, Rachel Gurevich wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has advice for me...
>
> My almost-five-year old is a serious perfectionist. For example, he
> wanted to draw pictures of pirates. He took a cup and used it to trace
> a circle, but when he tried, sometimes, the cup slipped, making his
> circle less than perfect -- leading to tears, crying, and [...]39_2Sep200621:05:51-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 780 147 14_perfectionism?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 09:57:30 EDT402_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/3/06 2:01:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> She would come
> to me - on her own - and say she wanted to use the potty, be dry for a
> few days and then have an accident, and you would have thought the world
> was going to end. She wouldn't get near the potty again for months, and
> then it would start all over again. [...]36_3Sep200609:57:30EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 928 37 34_Re: Perfectionism--a simple remedy16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Mon, 4 Sep 2006 22:53:25 -0400628_us-ascii Hi
I would go ahead and teach how to write his name

But INSTEAD of giving him ONE right way I would give 10-20 ways. I would
then show that certain ways of writing the name are superior; certain are
bad and certain are acceptable.

The rational behind this is as follows: The child is a perfectionist for
different reasons than adults are perfectionists. Adults are
perfectionists because they want to be perfect or show off or whatever.
The child is a perfectionist because he has no experience showing him
grades of acceptance. He doesnt understand that thereis right wrong
[...]38_4Sep200622:53:25-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 966 41 17_Re: Perfectionism17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 08:02:32 -0400471_- I think all the tips have been great. I've also had to deal with this issue
with several of my kids. I think some kids go through this at one point or
another, and this phase comes and goes.

One other thing to keep in mind, is not to minimalize the kid's feelings.
You can help the child deal with how they ACT when they feel a certain way -
ie not to have a tantrum and stomp off, or rip up an imperfect paper, but
their feelings are valid. [...]49_5Sep200608:02:32-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM 1008 27 15_1st day jitters25_Michael and Nadine Postol20_mnpostol@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:25:08 -0400456_ISO-8859-1 We're taking a lunch break now. Just thought I'd ask you all a
question. How long did it take you to get over your "I'm (that's me and
my husband) the one figuring this all out and I'm not sure what all I'm
doing" jitters? I've a 7 yr old who's been in school until now (she's
in 3rd gr.) and a 3 yr old who thinks it's great to have her sister
around all day. Even tho we've had a fairly smooth morning, I'm quite
jumpy. [...]41_5Sep200612:25:08-0400mnpostol@COMCAST.NET 1036 46 19_Re: 1st day jitters0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:49:28 -0400577_ISO-8859-1 Who says you get over that?
kol tuv,
BIll Bernstein
Nashville
>
> From: Michael and Nadine Postol
> Date: 2006/09/05 Tue PM 12:25:08 EDT
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: [TORCH-D] 1st day jitters
>
> We're taking a lunch break now. Just thought I'd ask you all a
> question. How long did it take you to get over your "I'm (that's me and
> my husband) the one figuring this all out and I'm not sure what all I'm
> doing" jitters? I've a 7 yr old who's been in school until now (she's
> in 3rd [...]48_5Sep200612:49:28-0400billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1083 58 19_Re: 1st day jitters14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:29:33 -0500543_iso-8859-1 Dear Nadine,

Enjoy having your children with you. All too soon children grow up; I say
savor your time with them and consider it a blessing.

Sincerely,
Mandy
Ima to 3 DS ages 5, 3,& 1

>>
>> We're taking a lunch break now. Just thought I'd ask you all a
>> question. How long did it take you to get over your "I'm (that's me and
>> my husband) the one figuring this all out and I'm not sure what all I'm
>> doing" jitters? I've a 7 yr old who's been in school until now (she's
>> in [...]44_5Sep200612:29:33-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 1142 43 19_Re: 1st day jitters10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 12:53:15 -0400335_us-ascii Nadine,

I don't think we ever get over it. We've been homeschooling now for 13
years. It gets a bit better after a year or two and I'm not so worried about
my two in college now. But I still worry about the ones in elementary and
high school. I think its good to keep worrying. It keeps you on your toes. [...]40_5Sep200612:53:15-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 1186 48 13_Visiting kids9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 22:21:57 -0700512_ISO-8859-1 My kids are roving the east coast. In Lakewood, NJ and now
Brooklyn-Flatbush. I don't know the areas back east, they were trying to
contact the Lipson family while in Lakewood and will be back in Lakewood for
this Shabbos, But are any of you close by that would like to connect with
them in Flatbush Wednesday or Thurs. at least with my almost 9and 12 yr olds
and maybe 16 yr old, too? Show them what a Frum Homeschool family looks
like.
Let me know.
Thanks,
Beth Mali [...]39_5Sep200622:21:57-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 1235 82 71_Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...15_Rachel Gurevich25_rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 17:18:46 +0200610_ISO-8859-1 Hello,

We're moved into our new apartment!! :) Woohoo! Thanks for the
perfectionist advice, I'm considering all of it. (And if I owe you a
reply -- Rena! -- I will write soon!)

While we didn't start our "homeschooling year" yet because of the
move, since the regular school year has begun, I've been asked several
times what school my kids are going to, and at first, I skirted the
issue, but I finally just started saying straight that we homeschool.
I've had a wide variety of reactions, but nothing "bad". We've had
several people think it's great and say [...]46_6Sep200617:18:46+0200rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM 1318 55 17_Re: Visiting kids13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 13:01:23 -0700334_iso-8859-1 I guess we are a frum homeschool family, though after a conversation today with someone I suppose my true frumness may be in doubt by some since I homeschool. :)

If they decide to rove down to Baltimore, they are welcome to come to use for a meal - since my mom is with us, we are maxed out for sleeping space. [...]43_6Sep200613:01:23-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1374 56 17_Re: Visiting kids0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:13:55 -0400621_ISO-8859-1 Aviva, you're not frum
I saw somewhere "frum" is roshei teivos for "fil rishus, venig mitzvos."
Kol tuv,
Bill Bernstein
Nashville (where no one ever visits).
>
> From: Avivah Werner
> Date: 2006/09/06 Wed PM 04:01:23 EDT
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids
>
> I guess we are a frum homeschool family, though after a conversation today with someone I suppose my true frumness may be in doubt by some since I homeschool. :)
>
> If they decide to rove down to Baltimore, they are welcome to come to use for a meal [...]48_6Sep200616:13:55-0400billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1431 99 17_Re: Visiting kids14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 22:47:52 +0200622_iso-8859-1 Bill, the more I see your comments and participation, the more I think
you'd love Tzfat. (where LOTS of people want to visit)
Kol tuv,
Laya
...as my son said after a visit to Florida, "I want to be in Israel... I
mean, how many tzaddikim are buried in Florida?)

On Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:13:55 -0400 billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET writes:
> Aviva, you're not frum
> I saw somewhere "frum" is roshei teivos for "fil rishus, venig
> mitzvos."
> Kol tuv,
> Bill Bernstein
> Nashville (where no one ever visits).
> >
> > From: Avivah Werner
> [...]38_6Sep200622:47:52+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 1531 116 17_Re: Visiting kids0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:58:02 -0400598_ISO-8859-1 Too many frum people in Safed. I'm trying to preserve my family's observance. And how many games of shuffleboard are played in Israel vs Florida?
Bill Bernstein
>
> From: Laya B Jackson
> Date: 2006/09/06 Wed PM 04:47:52 EDT
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids
>
> Bill, the more I see your comments and participation, the more I think
> you'd love Tzfat. (where LOTS of people want to visit)
> Kol tuv,
> Laya
> ...as my son said after a visit to Florida, "I want to be in Israel... I
> mean, [...]48_6Sep200616:58:02-0400billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1648 93 51_Florida visiting ( was )Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:16:38 -0500314_iso-8859-1 HEEYYYYY, I'M in Florida!!!!! :-) Yeah, my 5 y.o. keeps asking to move
to where there are more Torah people. We just can't keep living here in N.
Fl. Looking forward to meeting U Laya and whomever else I run into from
here in Tzfat :-) Anyone want to visit the galut in the mean time? :-) [...]44_6Sep200616:16:38-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 1742 94 17_Re: Visiting kids13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:35:21 -0700666_iso-8859-1 And I thought the mem stood for 'mishugas'.

Avivah, who almost visited Nashville - doesn't that count?

billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:
Aviva, you're not frum
I saw somewhere "frum" is roshei teivos for "fil rishus, venig mitzvos."
Kol tuv,
Bill Bernstein
Nashville (where no one ever visits).
>
> From: Avivah Werner
> Date: 2006/09/06 Wed PM 04:01:23 EDT
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids
>
> I guess we are a frum homeschool family, though after a conversation today with someone I suppose my true frumness may be in doubt by some since I homeschool. :)
>
> [...]43_6Sep200614:35:21-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1837 128 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:50:34 -0700532_iso-8859-1 Ironically, I had just started responding to your message when I got a call that rubbed me just in this way.

Here's my standard response when asked why we homeschool. "It works best for our family." If pushed, I say, "We wanted our kids to get the best academically, emotionally, and socially." If someone wants to discuss it further, it will then be on my terms, and they are in the position of having to be on the defensive regarding other educational options, instead of me having to defend homeschooling. [...]43_6Sep200614:50:34-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1966 210 17_Re: Visiting kids14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:49:23 -0500590_iso-8859-1 Well, I have a great-aunt in Nashville... Does that help??

~Mandy
----- Original Message -----
From: Avivah Werner
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids

And I thought the mem stood for 'mishugas'.

Avivah, who almost visited Nashville - doesn't that count?

billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET wrote:
Aviva, you're not frum
I saw somewhere "frum" is roshei teivos for "fil rishus, venig mitzvos."
Kol tuv,
Bill Bernstein
Nashville (where no one ever visits). [...]44_6Sep200616:49:23-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 2177 56 17_Re: Visiting kids10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 18:35:14 -0400638_US-ASCII Bill,

I flew over Nashville a few weeks ago and waved... {:-)

~Larry

________________________________

From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Mandy Oeschger
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:49 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids

Well, I have a great-aunt in Nashville... Does that help??

~Mandy

----- Original Message -----
From: Avivah Werner
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids [...]40_6Sep200618:35:14-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 2234 118 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 18:13:45 -0600405_utf-8 Yeah... and what are life skills in a yeshiva -- oh, my child is 12 years
old, and is in school with 12 year olds all day, my child comes home and
calls on the phone to their 12 year old friends (who they were in school
with all day), and then does homework with those same 12 year old friends,
and spends all weekend with 12 year old friends.... No, my child will not
get that. [...]43_6Sep200618:13:45-0600hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 2353 95 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 18:34:59 -0700478_iso-8859-1 Generally people don't phase me when it comes to discussing homeschooling; I have been having these discussions for years and don't bother with conversations that won't be productive. Occasionally I feel forced into a discussion that I don't want to have, like today. Basically, I was speaking to a very young kollel guy who is now learning with my son - my son loves learning with him and I am thrilled about that. He seems like a nice guy and he likes my son. [...]43_6Sep200618:34:59-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 2449 72 17_Re: Visiting kids14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 21:21:30 -0500776_ISO-8859-1 You should have dropped in....
-Bill.

Larry Beck wrote:

>Bill,
>
>I flew over Nashville a few weeks ago and waved... {:-)
>
>~Larry
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
>Mandy Oeschger
>Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 5:49 PM
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids
>
>
> Well, I have a great-aunt in Nashville... Does that help??
>
> ~Mandy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Avivah Werner
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 4:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Visiting kids
>
> And I thought the [...]48_6Sep200621:21:30-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 2522 36 18_computers vs. kids15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 19:36:57 -0700566_- Recently there have been articles on the net about how dangerous
DVD/computers/media are for our children's neshamas. Despite agreeing with
this 100%, I have let my almost 12 year old son have 1 hour per week on the
Lego website and Star Wars website. I put the kabosh on Star Wars and he
took it ok, but now I'm nixing the Lego website too. He has never had
cd-roms. We don't go to movies, but have on occasion rented a movie
(Charlie and the Chocolate Factory). This is all against my better
judgement, but there is also a shalom bayis [...]46_6Sep200619:36:57-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 2559 186 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 21:22:55 -0700478_ISO-8859-1 Avivah:
It sounds like the Kollel guy wants to do Kiruv with your son (Kiruv to get
him to go to school.)
And the other 'rebbe' 'enabling' you to homeschool, that has to be a first
that I've ever heard. When it was about public schools, I recall union
teachers wanting to protect their jobs, so they were against homeschooling.
I can't wait to hear what my kids have to say about their religious school
experience on the east coast.
Beth [...]39_6Sep200621:22:55-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 2746 77 22_Re: computers vs. kids14_Evelyn Krieger18_ek2000@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:35:13 -0400556_iso-8859-1 Michelle I feel you! My son goes to day school and my 2 daughters
homeschool. We have never watched commercial TV and when they were younger
they enjoyed some PBS and videos. I am so glad we didn't start the TV
habit. We still watch quality vidoes on occasion and I look for family type
(older ones) movies. About once or twice a year, we may go to the movies if
I can find something appropriate. The computer games are addicting. We
never had nintendo or game boy and as soon as my son got his first intro to
computer [...]39_7Sep200607:35:13-0400ek2000@COMCAST.NET 2824 58 22_Re: computers vs. kids14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 07:00:28 -0500635_ISO-8859-1 Hoo, boy.
We approach this the same way we approach everything else: some exposure
coupled with guidance and increasing responsibility on the child's part.
For the record, my opinion is that publications like the Yated or Jewish
Observer are more harmful than TV or computer.
Bill Bernstein.

Michelle Miller wrote:

> Recently there have been articles on the net about how dangerous
> DVD/computers/media are for our children's neshamas. Despite agreeing
> with this 100%, I have let my almost 12 year old son have 1 hour per
> week on the Lego website and Star Wars website. I put [...]48_7Sep200607:00:28-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 2883 60 26_Re: why do you homeschool?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:12:48 EDT639_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/7/06 2:00:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> who was hardly able to be respectful today when told my ds won't learn
> life skills if he doesn't go to yeshiva
>

yeah, right, just the opposite. I am laughing so hard, I choked!

Rena in Baltimore

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_7Sep200609:12:48EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 2944 112 22_Re: computers vs. kids9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 06:30:17 -0700560_ISO-8859-1 Before we were becoming observant, we used to watch some t.v. The kids even
watched the raunchy shows in the evening. There were times when they were
watching what I thought it was too much tv. Then I would give them
quarters--maybe five dollars worth a week. I charged them 25 cents per half
hour (if I recall) and those that valued money, quickly stopped watching
tv. We did that for a while. I never cared much for tv and didn't watch it
much. As our interest in Torah grew, a disinterest in tv was a natural. No
one is [...]39_7Sep200606:30:17-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 3057 130 13_Re: questions0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:22:42 EDT637_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/7/06 2:00:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> What really irritates me isn't when people directly ask questions, it's
> when they make comments that are filled with assumptions

Avivah, once again you so astutely nailed it! I had a very frustrating
exchange with someone who I know and respect, someone who knows me and my family
for YEARS. and she passed a casual comment like, you homeschool because you
don't like school (actually I think she used the word "hate" as in "you hate
school"). I was flipped out, flabbergasted and floored. That is [...]36_7Sep200609:22:42EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 3188 159 70_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" ques...0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM28_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:37:58 EDT632_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/6/2006 5:51:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM writes:

Ironically, I had just started responding to your message when I got a call
that rubbed me just in this way.

Here's my standard response when asked why we homeschool. "It works best
for our family." If pushed, I say, "We wanted our kids to get the best
academically, emotionally, and socially." If someone wants to discuss it further,
it will then be on my terms, and they are in the position of having to be on
the defensive regarding other educational options, instead of me having to
[...]40_7Sep200609:37:58EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 3348 137 26_Re: why do you homeschool?12_Yonit Kasten22_jillkasten@CHARTER.NET30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 09:44:00 -0400528_ISO-8859-1 LOLOLOLOL! That was almost as good as when the rabbi told me I needed
to send my kids to day school so that they could learn good middos!

When I got through laughing, I told him that he was insinuating that
there were bad middos in my house - I was half joking, but he did
backtrack a bit. And then I had no choice to tell him (I was trying to
avoid this) that one of the main reasons I was pulling them out was due
to the bad middos my children were constantly being exposed to in the
[...]43_7Sep200609:44:00-0400jillkasten@CHARTER.NET 3486 136 26_Re: why do you homeschool?10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:26:58 -0400362_us-ascii We originally pulled our kids from the day school because our kids told us
how bad the Midos of the other kids were. When we saw for ourselves we
confronted the school and we were told that that was the way kids are or
that it was the parents fault. Since we started homeschooling (13 years) our
kids have a reputation for great Midos. [...]40_7Sep200611:26:58-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 3623 50 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...15_Rachel Gurevich25_rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:30:50 +0200441_ISO-8859-1 Avivah,

That "enabling you to homeschool" thing is just beyond me... So, the
logic is... he thinks it's bad for your son's chinuch to homeschool,
and apparently thinks he knows what's best, and therefore, denies your
son of his Torah learning, ie, denies him chinuch?

And I don't see how that would enable you... it implies he is the only
one around to teach your son, which, of course, isn't true! [...]46_7Sep200618:30:50+0200rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM 3674 70 13_Re: questions14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:08:18 +0200717_us-ascii Rena wrote:
(All moms work, you know, this is just about venue!)

Which reminds me of one of my many favorite quotes:
"Every parent home schools, some just delegate more than others."

Laya

Author of the best loved self help book for teens
"You Don't Have to Learn Everything the Hard Way"
www.AuntLaya.com
http://tinyurl.com/92up5
http://www.auntlaya.blogspot.com/

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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/38_7Sep200617:08:18+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 3745 20 6_thanks25_Michael and Nadine Postol20_mnpostol@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 15:26:16 -0400462_ISO-8859-1 Bill, Mandy and Larry:

Thanks for the chizuk, I needed that! --Nadine

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG41_7Sep200615:26:16-0400mnpostol@COMCAST.NET 3766 56 13_Re: questions15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:05:41 -0700858_- An Xtian friend says:

Parenting puts you on your knees, and homeschooling keeps you there:)

michelle

>From: Laya B Jackson
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] questions
>Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:08:18 +0200
>
>Rena wrote:
>(All moms work, you know, this is just about venue!)
>
>
>Which reminds me of one of my many favorite quotes:
>"Every parent home schools, some just delegate more than others."
>
>Laya
>
>Author of the best loved self help book for teens
>"You Don't Have to Learn Everything the Hard Way"
>www.AuntLaya.com
>http://tinyurl.com/92up5
>http://www.auntlaya.blogspot.com/
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
[...]46_7Sep200614:05:41-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 3823 87 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:46:57 -0700394_iso-8859-1 His reasoning was this: if he learned with my son, I might consider that my son was getting enough Judaic learning and didn't need yeshiva. And since he believes in the system and is not supportive of homeschooling (which we obviously didn't know when we spoke to him), to help someone be successful outside of the system went against his beliefs. Hence the enabling reference. [...]43_7Sep200618:46:57-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 3911 96 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:58:19 -0500529_ISO-8859-1 That is assuming that you would not know how much is "enough" Judaic
learning. My recollection is that your family situation suggests you
would know very well whether it was "enough" or not. And we've never met.
The whole idea that X amount is "enough" or not enough is really
abhorrent. There have been very frum (in the good sense) people whose
learning was limited to Tanach and mishna. And I would venture that
their knowledge of Tanach was far greater than this fellow's.
Bill Bernstein [...]48_7Sep200620:58:19-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 4008 100 40_Re: was Just venting...now socialization13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:43:34 -0700576_iso-8859-1 Yes, you were naive, Chana. When you get a large group of children together, frum or not, good middos rarely dominate. The Moores write about what happens when a pack of dogs get together being similar to when a group of children get together.

I have been reluctant to say much on this topic, especially after Rachel T.'s request for something positive about yeshiva high schools, despite my very strong feelings about it. I have really tried to think of positives of sending a boy to high school- what I came up with, it is what everyone else does and [...]43_7Sep200620:43:34-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 4109 43 75_Re: Just venting about the "what school does your child go to" questions...10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:36:34 -0400533_us-ascii When we first started homeschooling we had one Rabbi that we interviewed
that said he would teach my kids but not at my house. It had to be at the
Beis Medrish. His reason was that homeschooling was wrong and the message
to the kids had to be that we should go out of the house to learn. I told
him that I was "dafka" trying to send the opposite message that learning
in the home was very good and was the best place to learn (not that I'm
against learning in the Beis Medrish). I told him "thank you [...]40_7Sep200622:36:34-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 4153 117 33_3 1/2 y'o insists on "doing work"16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 22:40:55 -0400564_utf-8 The "More than One" posts recently got me thinking about this:

I absolutely agree that, at young ages, kids don't need any sort of formal work. The problem is that my 3.5 year-old doesn't feel this way! She knows that she is "officially" hs'ing this year, and is getting to take special classes, etc. b/c of this. In her mind, this also seems to mean that she must use workbooks and do written work. I've tried telling her that doing hs'ing for her means doing things like puzzles and blocks and that everyone needs to do his/her special type of [...]49_7Sep200622:40:55-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 4271 75 37_Re: 3 1/2 y'o insists on "doing work"13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:56:10 -0700398_iso-8859-1 Hey, Ellen! I bet my baby is better at spitting up than yours! :)

If she likes traditional, schooly type of stuff, why not let her use it? I think the main problem is when that is the exclusive approach throughout a child's educational years, as well as when it is forced on them, regardless of their interest and aptitudes. If she likes it, I would support her in doing it. [...]43_7Sep200620:56:10-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 4347 39 17_Re: socialization0_22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:22:35 -0400370_us-ascii > Schools breed bad behavior and disrespect. Period. The more time your kids are away from you, the more likely they are to >pick up behaviors that won't enhance your home life or their personal lives. My experience is that the more you keep your kids >away from institutions and activities that everyone else is involved in, the better your kids will be. [...]43_8Sep200601:22:35-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 4387 239 82_learning in a child's own time & challenges (was 3 1/2 y'o insists on "doing work"14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:23:07 +0200566_utf-8 One of the beautiful things about homeschooling is that you can cater to
the desires of the kids. How wonderful to have a child who knows what
she wants. And how wonderful that her mother is finding her a way to get
what she wants in a framework that works for her.

This is tricky territory for me. I also thought, "why should I make my
kids color within the lines?" so didn't give them coloring books. Then,
I was given feedback that I could help my kids develop their fine motor
skills by giving them coloring books. Once again [...]38_8Sep200607:23:07+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 4627 66 36_Re: How Jews are (was Just venting )14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:44:03 +0200562_us-ascii It seems to me that if you live in or around Jews, as the old saying
goes, you'll get three opinions for every two Jews. If you live in one
neighborhood, you have to cover your hair a certain way. If you live in
another neighborhood, you'll be an outcast if you do cover your hair. It
doesn't matter what choices anyone makes there will always be someone to
criticize and condemn you. On the other hand, you can also find someone
to love and support you. In any relationship (like even a marriage) the
"other" will get on your [...]38_8Sep200607:44:03+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 4694 45 12_just venting15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 23:01:28 -0700557_- Wow, Avivah. You are so spot on. Against my better judgement, I let my
husband talk our son into a week of camp this past summer. He really
disliked it the last two years, so why should this be any different? And
it's a kiruv camp, so the campers were all public school kids. Only the
counselors and my son were frum. He hated it. Now, he has my husband's
support to never do that again (always had mine). The counselors, who were
supposed to be my son's mentors (according to the director), were so busy
with the misbehavior of [...]46_7Sep200623:01:28-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 4740 94 17_Re: socialization13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:35:33 -0700506_iso-8859-1 Congrats, Yael, for taking the step to bring him home. I had a similar situation with my then 7 yos when we started homeschooling - spending lots of time with him, taking off the pressures of school, and removing him from the bad example of other kids made a major difference - and he was still in school half the day for that first year. Now he is a walking example of a major mentsch - people always comment on his maturity and are surprised that at his age, we don't have 'teen' issues. [...]43_8Sep200607:35:33-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 4835 98 16_Re: just venting9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:44:35 -0700584_ISO-8859-1 A long road trip and a week of family camping at a natnl park with other
Jewish homeschoolers. Maybe a 'not back to summer camp' family camping
trip. Someone pick a spot.
Beth

On 9/7/06, Michelle Miller wrote:
>
> Wow, Avivah. You are so spot on. Against my better judgement, I let my
> husband talk our son into a week of camp this past summer. He really
> disliked it the last two years, so why should this be any different? And
> it's a kiruv camp, so the campers were all public school kids. Only the
[...]39_8Sep200607:44:35-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 4934 395 17_Re: socialization9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:06:50 -0700578_ISO-8859-1 The teen years have become my favorite years especially since my 3rd and 4th
teens have been teenagers. I think I have mentioned it before that our
favorite thing to do is have tea most every evening together and discuss
life. It can last anywhere from a half hour to 2 1/2 hrs. It has become a
haven to be able to discuss concerns on any topic, disappointments as well
as triumphs that just don't have a place for discussion during the course
of the day. It is especially cherished now that they are attending the
community college and are [...]39_8Sep200608:06:50-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 5330 57 33_are all messages getting through?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 13:10:39 EDT589_US-ASCII I am on digest, and I am not seeing certain messages coming through until I
see them being quoted and added on at the end of new posts.....

also, am not seeing my posts!

Is anyone else having problems?

or is it just me?

Rena in Baltimore

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_8Sep200613:10:39EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 5388 92 86_Re: learning in a child's own time & challenges (was 3 1/2 y'o insists on "doing work"8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:27:48 -0400579_ISO-8859-1 <<> On the other hand, I wish I'd started my kids earlier on some of the reading
> and writing. I let things go trusting that they'd be motivated (kind of in
> an unschoolilng way) to ask to read and write on their own. It never really
> happened>>

that is a tricky one. when there are no learning/reading issues, it
does happen and it's great. but when there learning/reading issues,
it's best to find out about them early and get started asap with
helpful tools specific to the issues. the outcomes are better the
sooner the help is [...]39_8Sep200612:27:48-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 5481 300 17_Re: socialization14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:34:25 -0700466_utf-8 Avivah,

I have nothing new to add to what you said, and nothing to respond, but wanted to tell you that your words resonate strongly with me, and that your posting means a lot to me, in terms of my own choices and experiences. Thank you.

Sigal

----- Original Message ----
From: Avivah Werner
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Friday, September 8, 2006 10:35:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] socialization [...]44_8Sep200608:34:25-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 5782 28 17_Re: socialization0_22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:17:33 -0400565_us-ascii > Back to what you posted, Yael - I think you will see that things will continue to go well even when you introduce the academic aspect of things. Keep it up - things will just get better and better.

Thanks for the encouragement, Avivah, and amen to your brachas. I see with my 12-year-old and other local homeschooled teens that the preteen/teen stage doesn't have to be turbulent. There is adjustment and change (and moodiness) but it doesn't have to be a time when kids and parents are driven apart. I do feel confident that my son, who has [...]43_8Sep200611:17:33-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 5811 61 36_Re: How Jews are (was Just venting )11_Rick Dinitz16_dinitz@TIBCO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 11:04:03 -0700603_us-ascii Laya,

Corny? Not to me.

Thank you for sharing this nugget of widsom. I've already made myself
a commitment to practice it.

May I also share it with my vaad mussar? (And if so, would you prefer
that I remove your name and email, or leave them in place?)

Kol tuv,
-Rick

-----Original Message-----

...

One of the most amazing lessons I learned in the last few years since
I've been in Israel (man, this place is just FULL of Jews!) came from a
woman in the old city of Jerusalem when I was complaining about how hard
life is [...]37_8Sep200611:04:03-0700dinitz@TIBCO.COM 5873 89 37_Re: are all messages getting through?9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:14:56 -0700454_ISO-8859-1 Rena:
It seems that if it is sent as a reply, it only attaches to that e-mail.
If you write a new e-mail it comes to the box as a new message. At least
that is all I can figure out. I get my email through gmail and don't know if
it would sort around if it came through a different address. Figuring out
computer programs is not at the top of my list, although it would be handy
and save som confusion, I'm sure.
Beth [...]39_8Sep200612:14:56-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 5963 27 36_Re: How Jews are (was Just venting )15_Shoshana Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 16:43:11 -0400588_us-ascii >with love,
>Laya
>(Do I dare send this? Is it too corny? By now many of you must know
>this part of me well enough. I'm sending it anyway.)

I'm from Indiana, so I LOVE corn. Very glad you sent it. Quite uplifting.

Love & Gut Shabbos,
Shoshi

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_8Sep200616:43:11-0400ssloman@NETLAB.COM 5991 88 36_Re: How Jews are (was Just venting )14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:42:24 -0600415_utf-8 Thank you Laya! I do try to think positive, and I think that in most cases
I do succeed. However, since I'm only human, I sometimes slip up, and I
think what you have been told is true. If I think about myself - If I do
cut people off in traffic (it's not very often, don't worry!), it is usually
because I'm not paying attention - and why not? - I'm usually "venting"
about something.... [...]43_8Sep200615:42:24-0600hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 6080 28 10_venting...15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 16:09:00 -0700329_- I need to clarify my last post. Didn't want to convey in my kvetch that my
son's camp counselors or even the camp itself was not good. It was the poor
middos of the campers (excessive bullying, profanity, and general chutzpadik
behavior) that caused him to have such a bad experience. Just needed to say
that. [...]46_8Sep200616:09:00-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 6109 115 86_Re: learning in a child's own time & challenges (was 3 1/2 y'o insists on "doing work"15_Rachel Gurevich25_rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 20:19:05 +0200558_ISO-8859-1 <dealt with that or ADD.>>

In what way? I'm ADD and dyslexic myself. So... Can I help? My younger
brother was also dyslexic, and I taught him how to read when we were kids.

Not sure exactly what topics you need help with, but if you are more
detailed, I could help. I can tell you that for math, using graph paper can
make a WORLD of a difference. And, also, not to assume that if a child can't
do basic arithmetic that they aren't ready for [...]46_9Sep200620:19:05+0200rachel.gurevich@GMAIL.COM 6225 21 16_chinuch websites16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 13:26:56 -0700531_us-ascii E-chinuch has changed, and I can't find simple coloring pages for the
holidays. Can anyone recommend another site to go to?
Thanks,
Brenda

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG43_10Sep200613:26:56-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 6247 68 20_Re: chinuch websites12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 20:56:28 -0700447_iso-8859-1 Brenda,

My oldest is 3 1/2; if I remember correctly, you have a daughter about the
same age. I found some really neat stuff on e-chinuch in preparation for Yom
Tov. What type of stuff are you looking for?

Chabad.org has some neat pictures; if you click on "Kids Zone" then,
Holidays, you will find craft ideas, coloring pages and games. Here is the
link: http://www.chabad.org/kids/article.asp?AID=354757 [...]41_10Sep200620:56:28-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 6316 110 20_Re: chinuch websites14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:34:41 +0200662_us-ascii Here's another site for coloring pages:
http://www.torahtots.com/
Here is a direct link for the chagim coming up:
http://www.torahtots.com/holidays/rosh/rosh.htm
Shana tova!
Laya

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 20:56:28 -0700 Rena Weisman
writes:
> Brenda,
>
> My oldest is 3 1/2; if I remember correctly, you have a daughter
> about the
> same age. I found some really neat stuff on e-chinuch in preparation
> for Yom
> Tov. What type of stuff are you looking for?
>
> Chabad.org has some neat pictures; if you click on "Kids Zone" then,
>
> Holidays, you will find craft ideas, [...]39_11Sep200613:34:41+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 6427 49 37_Re: venting... (camps, socialization)14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:58:20 -0500370_us-ascii Michelle Miller wrote:
>I need to clarify my last post. Didn't want to convey
>in my kvetch that my son's camp counselors or even the camp
>itself was not good. It was the poor middos of the campers
>(excessive bullying, profanity, and general chutzpadik
>behavior) that caused him to have such a bad experience. [...]42_11Sep200614:58:20-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 6477 43 5_intro14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 15:23:45 -0500604_us-ascii Hello Parents,

I just joined the list--I'm really enjoying all your posts so
far--and I forgot to introduce myself before posting.

I'm a grad student, finishing up my PhD in Genetics. We live
in a university community and daven at the local Hillel house.
We have one son, Shaya, who just turned 4.

During the school year, Shaya spends 3 hours a day (5 days a
week) at a local nursery school. The rest of the time, he is
"home" (or around town with his Dad...homeschoolers rarely
seem to be at home!). In response to his interests, we have
recently [...]42_11Sep200615:23:45-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 6521 44 37_Re: venting... (camps, socialization)8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 18:19:50 -0400582_ISO-8859-1 <<> A really good camp has ways to head these problems off before
> they occur. They keep kids in small groups, and they train
> councelors on how to set a tone where kids interact
> positively, rather than only responding to crises and bad
> behavior after the fact.
>
> Positive socialization is so much more than throwing a bunch
> of kids together and punishing them when they get out of hand.
> It's setting a mood, a tone, and an expectation of positive
> interactions, and then modeling appropriate behavior for them.
> In other [...]40_11Sep200618:19:50-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 6566 83 20_Re: chinuch websites14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:59:59 -0600627_utf-8 Yes please Rena - I'm interested in the months link!

-Rivkah

Rena Weisman writes:

> Brenda,
>
> My oldest is 3 1/2; if I remember correctly, you have a daughter about the
> same age. I found some really neat stuff on e-chinuch in preparation for
> Yom Tov. What type of stuff are you looking for?
>
> Chabad.org has some neat pictures; if you click on "Kids Zone" then,
> Holidays, you will find craft ideas, coloring pages and games. Here is
> the link: http://www.chabad.org/kids/article.asp?AID=354757
>
> Aish.com also has coloring pages: here is the link:
[...]44_12Sep200618:59:59-0600hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 6650 70 42_EXCITING NEW HIGH SCHOOL PROGRAM FROM AMIT17_rjhendel@juno.com17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM29_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 01:14:34 GMT670_- Hi
Many HIGH SCHOOL students spend their year before College in Israel. There is a wide
choice of schools to chose from
AMIT has now created a new High School program, Midreshet Amit, for women.
The novelty of this program is that besides learning they will participate in being
a big sister to the students at the Bait Hayeled school in Jerusalem, a school that
has done pioneering work in helping children from families with problems.
For more information call 212 203 4683 or email MidreshetAmit@Amit.Org.Il or
visit the website www.Amit.org.il/MidresehtAmit.
Ketivah VaChatimah Tova
Russell Jay Hendel, Ph.d.; www.RashiYomi.com/ [...]37_13Sep200601:14:34GMTrjhendel@JUNO.COM 6721 66 32_Re: Helping children concentrate14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:20:20 -0600621_utf-8 I forget who was asking about suggestions for children with ADD/ADHD, so I
apologize I can't personalize it too much. However, I might have some
suggestions for that.

One of my brothers is adopted, and has issues with concentration and extreme
emotions. My oldest (5.5) has similar characteristics (which come from his
father, who, at about 10 yrs of age suddenly changed to someone who could
concetrate and was a "nerd" in school, so I hope our son will be similar!).
I read an article on e-chinuch.org about 1.5 yrs ago from a special needs
teacher. It's under ADD/ADHD articles. [...]44_12Sep200619:20:20-0600hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 6788 22 13_chinuch sites16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:11:45 -0700544_us-ascii Thanks so much to everyone who has (and who possibly will) suggested
chinuch sites to me. I've already checked out the Aish one.

Shana Tova,
Brenda

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG43_12Sep200620:11:45-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 6811 96 20_Re: chinuch websites12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:57:53 -0700473_utf-8 Rivkah -

This is the link that I used the pictures from:

http://echinuch.org/upload/3963-Y_00634chodsheihashana.pdf

Instead of doing a clothesline; we used one sheet of construction paper for
each month. I let my daughter color the photo for that month, we then cut it
out and glued, sometimes we even had fun with glitter!

I also made a few birthday cakes - for each month where there is a family
birthday, we glued one on! [...]41_12Sep200620:57:53-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 6908 76 32_Re: Helping children concentrate14_hadas laureano20_hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:18:39 -0700561_utf-8 Dearest Rivkah...I found it fascinating what you wrote about. I am a
therapist....that specializes in adoption issues......I also run a kids and
adolescent adoptee group.....and other adoption related groups for
adults....so i really found it interesting , what you shared. all the
best....Hadas Laureano hadasl@sbcglobal.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca Harper"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Helping children concentrate [...]42_14Sep200611:18:39-0700hadasl@SBCGLOBAL.NET 6985 28 11_Aleph Champ6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:39:01 -0600368_US-ASCII If you are looking for a fun way to teach Hebrew with good incentives and
lots of framework, check out this site:

http://www.alephchamp.com

This is a very successful program used in Chabad Hebrew schools around the
country and the world. It can also be purchased for use at home with good
support from the developer, Chani Marcus. [...]42_14Sep200616:39:01-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 7014 41 15_Re: Aleph Champ8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:08:11 -0400426_ISO-8859-1 <lots of framework, check out this site:

http://www.alephchamp.com>>

i love this program. while it's not bright and colorful, that's good
for us as bright and colorful means distracting and therefor
slow......with out adhd/sensory/temperment stuff, what we can do as a
'sprint' is almost always better for A. [...]40_14Sep200621:08:11-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 7056 59 32_Re: Helping children concentrate14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 15:12:59 -0500385_utf-8 Sounds like even if a child isn't diagnosed with these things, the
supplements could be helpful anyway. So glad you have found this natural
road! My F.I.L. was diagnosed with prostate cancer and refused treatment,
he instead totally changed his diet and the cancer is in such remission that
they aren't trying to drug him anymore :-) It's been a bracha for him. [...]45_14Sep200615:12:59-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 7116 60 15_Re: Aleph Champ14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 06:45:37 -0500341_iso-8859-1 There seem to be so many choices on this site. What do you start with?
The Delux kit? I have a 3 y.o and 5 y.o both pretty advanced ( IMHO ).
We're not fluent in Hebrew but the children can recognize the alef bet and
some of the vowels. Looks like this program would be fun! Looking forward
to your response! [...]45_15Sep200606:45:37-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 7177 100 32_Re: Helping children concentrate14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 06:20:30 -0600524_utf-8 Hello Hadas,

There is one other nice reason why I like the vitamins (other than they are
what our bodies need, it's just that some people need more of certain
vitamins than others...) is that if I run out of my son's vitamins, or if I
forget to give them to him one time --- nothing happens. I know with other
medication, if one forgets, or runs out, there are reprocusion - the body is
"addicted" to them. No so with vitamins. They just work themselves out of
his system, and that's it. [...]44_15Sep200606:20:30-0600hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 7278 81 15_Re: Aleph Champ8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:49:11 -0400323_ISO-8859-1 Perhaps give them a call?

it's less about recognizing the alef bet and more about knowing what
sounds the letters make so really i'd start at the beginning probably.
the nice thing is that if they know it, you can vvv quickly move
through till you need to slow down and stick with it a bit. [...]40_15Sep200609:49:11-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 7360 31 15_Re: Aleph Champ6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:24:13 -0600497_US-ASCII I don't know enough about the details of the program to give specifics. I
would recommend contacting the developer, Chani Marcus at
alephchamp@gmail.com. She is very friendly and open to questions and
support. Be sure to mention that you are homeschooling so she can take
account of that.

As far as speaking instruction, I would ask her if that is part of the
program or not. My sense is "not." But she probably has suggestions of how
to make that work too. [...]42_15Sep200608:24:13-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 7392 43 32_Re: Helping children concentrate14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:54:31 -0500697_us-ascii Rivkah wrote:
>Basically, we use a combination of Calcium/Magnesium
>tablets (the Magnesium helps calm you down - less extreme
>emotions, relaxes the muscles more, helps you calm down
>to rest, etc.), B6 vitamins for concentration and Esential
>fatty oils (omega 3,6,9) [...]

There's also some evidence that a zinc supplement may help.
This should be dosed carefully (or obtained through diet),
however, since too much zinc is harmful. Zinc and essential
fatty acids (EFAs) are the nutrients that have been
best-studied for their effects on ADHD, and which show the
most promise. Perhaps not coincidentally, many Americans'
diets are marginal [...]42_15Sep200613:54:31-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 7436 32 36_Jewish Montessori supplies/activites14_Jennifer Moran20_jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:44:35 -0500450_us-ascii Hello Parents,

I just found this amazing catalog of Jewish Montessori supplies:

http://www.shluchim.org/main/inside.asp?id=1485

I gather they only sell to Chabad Shluchim, and some of the
links won't open without a password, but you can download the
catalog PDF. Many of the activities could probably be put
together with household items or home made; I know I've gotten
a few ideas to try with my son! [...]42_15Sep200616:44:35-0500jrmoran@UCHICAGO.EDU 7469 64 25_Re: chinuch websites/link14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 06:17:11 -0500632_iso-8859-1 Rena,
Yes, please do send the link!

Shana Tova!
Mandy

Since
> she is such a visual learner, even though she can't read yet, she has
> learned the Hebrew months, in order - simply from doing this project. If
> anyone is interested, I'll send the actual link. (This wasn't just for
> Rosh Hoshana, but I was looking for a way to make "time" more concrete.)
>
>
> Shana Tova!
> Rena W.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brenda Goldstein"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 1:26 PM
> Subject: [TORCH-D] [...]45_11Sep200606:17:11-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 7534 91 25_Re: chinuch websites/link12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 16:32:37 -0700462_iso-8859-1 This is the link that I used the pictures from:

http://echinuch.org/upload/3963-Y_00634chodsheihashana.pdf

Instead of doing a clothesline; we used one sheet of construction paper for
each month. I let my daughter color the photo for that month, we then cut it
out and glued, sometimes we even had fun with glitter!

I also made a few birthday cakes - for each month where there is a family
birthday, we glued one on! [...]41_15Sep200616:32:37-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 7626 60 37_Re: are all messages getting through?6_Shayna17_ssheiny@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:30:02 -0700658_iso-8859-1 No, I'm having the same problem. It's like I miss the
first post.

I am NOT on digest...

~Shayna in Chicago
afterschooling Kinneret, almost 7
and Uri Amitai, 4.5

--- RENALEVIN@AOL.COM wrote:

> I am on digest, and I am not seeing certain messages
> coming through until I
> see them being quoted and added on at the end of new
> posts.....
>
> also, am not seeing my posts!
>
> Is anyone else having problems?
>
> or is it just me?
>
> Rena in Baltimore
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The TORCH-D mailing list is [...]39_19Sep200612:30:02-0700ssheiny@YAHOO.COM 7687 49 37_Re: are all messages getting through?10_Larry Beck19_larry@BECKFORCE.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:53:06 -0400442_US-ASCII I don't know. I have seen only a few posts in the last week.
Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of
Shayna
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:30 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] are all messages getting through?

No, I'm having the same problem. It's like I miss the first post.

I am NOT on digest... [...]41_19Sep200621:53:06-0400larry@BECKFORCE.COM 7737 30 37_Re: are all messages getting through?8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:23:11 -0400339_ISO-8859-1 << am on digest, and I am not seeing certain messages
> > coming through until I
> > see them being quoted and added on at the end of new
> > posts.....
> >
> > also, am not seeing my posts!>>

yup, this 'quote' of yours is the first message i've seen in this
thread...i get a randome 1 out of 'x'. [...]40_19Sep200622:23:11-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 7768 83 9_Kashrut ?14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:08:43 -0500359_iso-8859-1 Is anyone familiar with the Ner Tamid K under Rabbi Dov Hazdan? I'm getting mixed messages on the issue b/c the Amy's brand products claim to be kosher but I see this Rabbi has given his Kashrut rather freely. Is this true? Kosher to me means the Orthodox standard and I can't seem to find much on this Rabbi. Any help is greatly appreciated. [...]45_20Sep200611:08:43-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 7852 93 13_Re: Kashrut ?14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:00:11 -0700636_us-ascii Hi Mandy,

I didn't hear good things about this when I asked. Also,
a google search on Rabbi Dov Hazdan brings up some interesting articles . . . including
newyorkmetro.com/news/intelligencer/16589/

A discussion also appeared on http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/12/28/amy_s_kitchen_aamp_ner_tamid_k/

Nothing conclusive --but doesn't sound very good. As usual, it is a case of ask your LOR!

Sigal

----- Original Message ----
From: Mandy Oeschger
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:08:43 PM
Subject: [TORCH-D] Kashrut ? [...]45_20Sep200610:00:11-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 7946 72 13_Re: Kashrut ?18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:12:43 -0400562_us-ascii bs'd
Mandy,

I did a google search on "dov hazdan" and among the finds were
the two links below.

http://www.radwin.org/michael/blog/cat_food.html

http://www.yuobserver.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/04/14/425f105e65d2c

Everyone has their own comfort level with different kosher supervision.
Beyond the Shulchan Arukh prohibitions, there are gray areas.
The Dunkin Donuts is controversial because of the presence of non-kosher
meat in the store. YU is not comfortable with it. Treif too close for
comfort. [...]41_20Sep200613:12:43-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 8019 44 13_Re: Kashrut ?0_27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:03:40 -0400624_ISO-8859-1 Typically when we have these questions we call the Star-K in Baltimore. They will tell you whether they "recommend" it or not. If they recommend it, it is for sure good. If they don't.....
Bill Bernstein
still waiting for hashgacha on Goo-Goo Clusters.
>
> From: Mandy Oeschger
> Date: 2006/09/20 Wed PM 12:08:43 EDT
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: [TORCH-D] Kashrut ?
>
> Is anyone familiar with the Ner Tamid K under Rabbi Dov Hazdan? I'm getting mixed messages on the issue b/c the Amy's brand products claim to be kosher but I see this Rabbi has [...]49_20Sep200613:03:40-0400billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 8064 83 13_Re: Kashrut ?14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:45:28 -0700412_us-ascii I spoke to a friend who looked into this: apparently, the cheeses Amy's uses are not under hashgacha, which makes you wonder about the hashgacha itself . . . all of this is hearsay, though.

Sigal

----- Original Message ----
From: Mandy Oeschger
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:08:43 PM
Subject: [TORCH-D] Kashrut ? [...]45_20Sep200611:45:28-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 8148 29 13_Re: Kashrut ?8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:30:24 -0400633_ISO-8859-1 The AKC, our local orthodox kashrut authority says no way. We
couldn't use it for Alana when we were at GHA.

I have orthodox friends who have followed up on this rabbi on their
own and have been very satisfied with what they've discovered
though...and do use it.

But we don't...

k

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]40_20Sep200614:30:24-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 8178 88 13_Re: Kashrut ?14_Rebecca Harper22_hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:54:24 -0600717_utf-8 Do all kosher Dunkin Donuts have the bacon.... Ours does NOT have any meat
whatsoever in it. The ONLY thing that is not kosher are the smoothies....
-
Rivkah

Benjamin H Dickman writes:

> bs'd
> Mandy,
>
> I did a google search on "dov hazdan" and among the finds were
> the two links below.
>
> http://www.radwin.org/michael/blog/cat_food.html
>
> http://www.yuobserver.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/04/14/425f105e65d2c
>
> Everyone has their own comfort level with different kosher supervision.
> Beyond the Shulchan Arukh prohibitions, there are gray areas.
> The Dunkin Donuts is controversial because of the presence of non-kosher
> meat in [...]44_20Sep200615:54:24-0600hudabecca@RAINMALL.COM 8267 116 13_Re: Kashrut ?14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 20:46:34 +0200435_us-ascii When I lived in Denver my Chabd rebbitzin had a book that listed every
hechsher and who it belongs to including their affiliation. Asking
someone who has the resources and who you respect is a good way to go.

BTW, let's talk about kashrut in Israel as you're preparing to come. In
some ways I found it more complex here. It seems pretty natural now but
I shed tears about the confusion more than once! [...]39_20Sep200620:46:34+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 8384 62 13_Re: Kashrut ?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 22:26:02 -0700421_iso-8859-1 Hmm, didn't anyone else hear about the butcher in Monsey who was recently found to be selling treif (meaning purely treif, not treif according to one rav and not another) meat to his customers, yeshivas, etc. - for the sake of boosting profits?? He had a spot checking mashgiach (known as yotzei v'nichnas - one who comes and goes) - which wasn't enough for something like six months until he was caught. [...]44_20Sep200622:26:02-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 8447 64 13_Re: Kashrut ?11_Lynn Zelvin19_lynn@AEONACCESS.COM31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:17:08 -0400601_us-ascii Hi,

I looked into the issue with Amy's products a while ago and found a
discussion, sometimes heated, on the Kosher Blog (a cool site in general) -

http://www.kosherblog.net/2004/12/28/amy_s_kitchen_aamp_ner_tamid_k/

I thought I had remembered that there was actually a contact from
Amy's somewhere in all that discussion but I don't see it now. I tend
towards leniency but it does seem that there is, at the very least,
a problem with the cheese Amy's is using which is really not OK and
really a bummer since they have a wonderful line of products. [...]41_21Sep200600:17:08-0400lynn@AEONACCESS.COM 8512 155 13_Re: Kashrut ?9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:16:24 -0700486_ISO-8859-1 We had a split in our household about if we could bring Amy's in and in the
final analysis it hasn't been allowed.
My son just got back from 3 weeks at Ohr Somayoch in Monsey--Just to get a
taste (pun intended) of what it is like to go to a Yeshiva. So I did hear
all about the treif chicken scandal. I asked him what he did? He just
smiled at me and said mom I don't eat meat. (two or three my kids are not
meat eaters, he being one of them).
Beth [...]40_20Sep200623:16:24-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 8668 159 21_Re: Kashrut ?/CHICKEN14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:56:30 -0500409_iso-8859-1 Oy veh! What is the chicken scandal?!?!?!?!?!?!?! I heard of the beef scandal with rubashkins but I think that has been taken care of now. Yikes. Fill me in please!

Thanks, Mandy
- So I did hear all about the treif chicken scandal. I asked him what he did? He just smiled at me and said mom I don't eat meat. (two or three my kids are not meat eaters, he being one of them).
Beth [...]45_21Sep200606:56:30-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 8828 101 12_Re: Kashrut?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 08:39:44 EDT611_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/21/06 2:01:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

>
> Typically when we have these questions we call the Star-K in Baltimore.
> They will tell you whether they "recommend" it or not. If they recommend it, it
> is for sure good. If they don't.....
>

I would really echo this statement. We do this all the time, especially since
the Star-K is in our backyard and our shul's Rav is also a Star-K employee!!!
We have found this really works well, especially when we are anticipating
travel and want to know about places to [...]37_21Sep200608:39:44EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 8930 29 7_kashrus25_Michael and Nadine Postol20_mnpostol@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:43:54 -0400410_ISO-8859-1 Mandy;

May I suggest that if there's a particular product you 're interested in
you call either the O-U (NY) or the Star-K (Baltimore) or the CRC
(chicago va'ad), or any other major kashrus org. you prefer. You can
find contact info on their web sites. They will not tell you if a
particular hecsher is good (loshen hora), but they will tell you about a
specific product. [...]42_21Sep200610:43:54-0400mnpostol@COMCAST.NET 8960 100 13_Re: Kashrut ?18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:52:43 -0400563_windows-1252 bs'd

I google searched:
"chicken scandal" monsey kosher
and came up with many links. The NY Times already wants money
to see their link. The Rockland Journal News article is still free:
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060909/NEWS03/609090330/1237/NEWS0304

Basically, the story is a much bigger deal than the article conveys.
Mr. Finkel was a pillar of the Monsey community, and in business for many
years. It appears that he was selling absolute treif as kosher since
at least 1999. [...]41_21Sep200610:52:43-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 9061 42 16_Kashrut resource12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:15:34 -0700587_iso-8859-1 I just wanted to pass on one more excellent resource that I didn't see anyone mention (sorry if I missed it and am repeating here)

Rabbi Eidlitz is really one of the top authorities on kashrus in the world. There's tons of good info on his website: http://www.kosherquest.org/ and his book, and especially his newsletters (join his org to get it). People call and write him all the time with questions. He's here in Los Angeles, and is amazing. You can ask him about the most obscure product on the market, for example, and he'll immediately tell you whether it's [...]43_22Sep200610:15:34-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM 9104 30 17_Gedaliah for kids6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:03:23 -0600405_US-ASCII For those who would like a little something to explain the fast day
tomorrow, click on this link:

http://www.jewishaudio.org/stories/burston/

Scroll down to the bottom to tape #177 and click on Side A. You and your
kids will get a great story about Tsom Gedaliah from Rabbi Burston. I
highly recommend all of the stories on this site, for both adults and
children. [...]42_24Sep200622:03:23-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 9135 64 33_Now, I get it...(Mea Culpa redux)15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 25 Sep 2006 18:59:50 -0700649_iso-8859-1 Shana Tova everyone,

It's been a long time since I've been around. Well, I've been lurking but life circumstances have made posting rather...unlikely. Several things have happened in recent months to bring my life/family/educational choices into much sharper focus.

Firstly, baruch Dayan haEmes, we lost my beloved mother in law after a long battle with cancer. While expected, noone can ever prepare for such a thing and the awfulness of the family brouhaha that ensued afterwards can't be overstated either (a direct result of the complete and utter lack of the presence of Jewish awareness in general in dh's family [...]40_25Sep200618:59:50-0700drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 9200 37 15_Re: 2 questions12_caryn lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 26 Sep 2006 09:46:14 +0000361_- Hi,

Can anyone recommend a good hebrew language program. My kids are almost 16
and 13 and although they spent many years in yeshiva, they never got a good
grasp of the hebrew language. This makes it hard when it comes to learning
from a sefer and davening, among other things. Is there anything that's good
and makes the learning fun? [...]46_26Sep200609:46:14+0000caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 9238 107 15_Re: 2 questions9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:38:41 -0700548_ISO-8859-1 Caryn:
Sorry that my kids didn't manage to meet up with your family while they were
in Lakewood. They are back after trying out a sample of Jewish communites
and religious schools (just to see what they are like).
All of my unschooled kids so far have done high school by mail. Because we
send our kids to the community college, we more look at that like their high
school. They do have to have a high school diploma to get in at a younger
age. So we have used a course that has stayed pretty much the same but [...]40_26Sep200606:38:41-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 9346 70 15_Re: 2 questions6_suelap20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:46:12 -0700365_us-ascii Caryn,

One option is having your child take the GED - an equivalency diploma. It
has some drawbacks as it is often seen as second rate. I believe the
military did not used to accept it though I think they are doing a trial
program because of homeschoolers who use it. However, my daughter took it
and used that to get into college. [...]42_26Sep200611:46:12-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 9417 127 15_Re: 2 questions9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:40:04 -0700590_ISO-8859-1 Since susan mentioned it--SAT's, I forgot to mention that my kids did not
have to take SAT's to get into college. Again the have attended our local
colleges so that they could continue living at home. That may be a
consideration for some kids.
Beth

On 9/26/06, suelap wrote:
>
> Caryn,
>
> One option is having your child take the GED - an equivalency diploma. It
> has some drawbacks as it is often seen as second rate. I believe the
> military did not used to accept it though I think they are doing a trial
[...]40_26Sep200617:40:04-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 9545 160 21_high school questions0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 27 Sep 2006 09:04:25 EDT437_US-ASCII we used an umbrella program called The Learning Community International. This
is a SCHOOL where 100% of their students do independent off-site studies. As
such, when applying for college, if you are enrolled in TLC, you are NOT a
homeschooler, but a graduate of a PRIVATE SCHOOL. (nuance, I know, but it makes
a difference, when taking SATs, we did not use the homeschool code, we used
the TLC school code). [...]37_27Sep200609:04:25EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 9706 61 25_Re: high school questions19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Wed, 27 Sep 2006 23:52:27 GMT497_- Just wanted to thank you Rena for all the good sources. This year we are focusing on Hebrew language and grammer for my 13 and almost 12 year old daughters, so all the information is right on target for us!
G'mar Chasima Tova to all,
Malki

________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Unlimited Internet Access with 1GB of Email Storage.
Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today! [...]39_27Sep200623:52:27GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 9768 24 15_Re: 2 questions8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:17:22 -0400486_ISO-8859-1 My kids are having fun and definitely learning and advancing with
Rosetta Stone. So am I. It would work for anyone from age for or so
through adult.

K

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]40_27Sep200620:17:22-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 9793 59 15_Re: 2 questions12_caryn lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 28 Sep 2006 11:49:09 +0000569_- Thanks for all the feedback. Very helpful and I will look into all
suggestions and respond at length when I can. Meantime - has anyone used
Smart Start Hebrew and Hebrew Wordquest software? My ds was interested in
Rosetta Stone a while ago but I thought it was a bit pricey. My dd likes
things that are fun and challenging. Will Rosetta Stone work for both of
them? Tutoring will not work for us - kids don't want to feel that they are
"in school" and it's an expensive option. I'm looking at getting a number
of different educational items [...]46_28Sep200611:49:09+0000caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 9853 23 15_Re: 2 questions10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET31_Thu, 28 Sep 2006 08:42:37 -0700448_iso-8859-1 Rosetta Stone is one of the best designed and most flexible language
programs I have ever used. It works well for a range of ages - the only
prerequisite is basic computer skills. If you think it is too expensive to
buy, see if your local library offers it for free online. Many public
libraries now offer it to their patrons. It uses the total immersion method
which is the fastest way to fluency in a new language. [...]36_28Sep200608:42:37-0700zara@HAIMO.NET 9877 37 15_Re: 2 questions8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:39:26 -0400406_ISO-8859-1 <them?>>

as i mentioned in my email, i've found it to be useful for about age 4-adult.

it really just requires that you can 'click' on something.

at first i was trying 'too hard' to memorize what they were saying and
really 'get it' in a very conscious way. then i realize it just gets
you....it doesn't have to be forced. [...]40_28Sep200616:39:26-0400cillakat@GMAIL.COM 9915 56 15_Re: 2 questions12_caryn lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:19:23 +0000682_- Did you get the homeschool edition?

>From: cillakat
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] 2 questions
>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 16:39:26 -0400
>
><>them?>>
>
>as i mentioned in my email, i've found it to be useful for about age
>4-adult.
>
>it really just requires that you can 'click' on something.
>
>at first i was trying 'too hard' to memorize what they were saying and
>really 'get it' in a very conscious way. then i realize it just gets
>you....it doesn't have to be forced.
>
[...]46_29Sep200611:19:23+0000caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 9972 27 15_Re: 2 questions8_cillakat18_cillakat@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:43:48 -0400535_ISO-8859-1 <>

i don't think so. i just got Hebrew from amazon.com without really
knowing what i was getting. it's been fine. no, better than fine.
it's great.

:)
k

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