1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d September 2005 2 190 14_Yeshiva Online8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:08:57 -0500583_us-ascii Just passing on the information that Rabbi Pollack is in the process of
forming new online classes, in case anyone is interested in having their
children participate. His website is
www.yeshivaonline.com.

-Shoshana

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_1Sep200521:08:57-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 193 131 45_was Yeshiva Online, now computerized learning13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:09:34 -0700609_iso-8859-1 I am reading a book now, called The Flickering Mind - The False Promise of Technology in the Classroom and How Learning Can Be Saved, by Todd Oppenheimer. Very worth reading, in my opinion - I haven't yet finished it, but am delighted that he has come to conclusions that I have personally reached regarding the use of technology as regards to learning - namely, that it is very overblown and kids learn more and better using old fashioned techniques of personalized attention and appropriate learning aids. I personally don't like computerized learning at all, and the personal connection is [...]43_1Sep200520:09:34-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 325 285 52_Re: Yeshiva Online, computerized learning, resources14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:20:11 +0200586_us-ascii My son participated with Rabbi Pollack's class for a while. He's great,
very encouraging and saying postitve things to the kids all the time. I
found him to be very patient and kind. He works with boys and girls and
I believe the classes are worth checking into.

Aviva, I read your post cautioning about "plugging" kids in. I
understand your concerns and don't really think this is the same thing.
It's not a computer program, it's a real live person, teaching real time
with kids. It's true that it's not as good as sitting one on one with a
[...]38_2Sep200507:20:11+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 611 134 18_Re: Yeshiva Online14_Devora Farrell22_dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:14:37 -0400545_iso-8859-1 If anyone needs a reference about the classes or about R. Pollack, my son learned with him online for a year and loved it. They are still in touch, and R. Pollack has been warm and supportive all along.

Devora in NJ

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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]43_2Sep200507:14:37-0400dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM 746 114 49_Re: was Yeshiva Online, now computerized learning14_Devora Farrell22_dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:29:36 -0400440_iso-8859-1 Aviva in Baltimore wrote:

... conclusions that I have personally reached regarding the use of technology as regards to learning - namely, that it is very overblown and kids learn more and better using old fashioned techniques of personalized attention and appropriate learning aids. I personally don't like computerized learning at all, and the personal connection is much harder to establish with an online program. [...]43_2Sep200507:29:36-0400dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM 861 62 49_Re: was Yeshiva Online, now computerized learning13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 06:59:08 -0700578_iso-8859-1 Thank you, Devora and Laya, for sharing how successful the online classes were for your boys. Thank you especially, Devora, for sharing your inspiring and encouraging experience with your son.

Over the past three years, I have recommended Rabbi Pollack's online classes to a number of people who have called me since it seemed like the best option for them. My post wasn't intended to be about Rabbi Pollack as much as computerized learning - I tried to stress that I wasn't implying anything negative about Rabbi Pollack. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear. [...]43_2Sep200506:59:08-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 924 66 49_Re: was Yeshiva Online, now computerized learning14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:03:07 -0400540_- BS"D

Thank you, Devora, for updating us on your son's achievements. I am very
glad that computerized learning has worked for you. Although
computerized-learning is not for everyone, I personally support it, as my
whole family does computerized learning some of the time as part of our
curriculum.

There are benefits to computerized learning, and there may also be
negatives. I wrote about our family's experience on this in an old issue
of DevarimAtHome (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DevarimAtHome). [...]38_2Sep200511:03:07-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 991 57 10_Mazel tov!15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:16:53 -0700395_iso-8859-1 B"H

Hello all!

It is with great joy that I announce the birth of Aiden Emanuel, born Tuesday Aug. 23 (18 Av). The birth went well (natural water birth with midwife, great experience!) and mommy and baby are doing fine. Mommy is starting to feel almost like a human being again, despite the trauma of the bris (I have 2 older girls!) for Mommy (baby did fine, B"H). [...]39_2Sep200510:16:53-0700drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 1049 25 16_Tishrei supplies6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 14:49:47 -0600350_US-ASCII Hello all! Some of you might be looking for manipulatives and decorations
for Tishrei. Check out headofthejewishclass.com. This is a store based in
Crown Heights, NY with a really good selection. Their prices are decent and
seem on par with other places I've used.

Hope the transition from summer to fall is a good one- [...]41_2Sep200514:49:47-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 1075 423 14_Re: Mazel tov!8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 21:08:01 -0500451_US-ASCII MAZAL TOV! Thanks so much for sharing your joy with us! And it sounds
like so many of your fears are so far (k"h) unfounded! May your journey
be a blessing to you all.

Love,
Shoshana

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Nicole Brackman
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 12:17 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] Mazel tov! [...]39_3Sep200521:08:01-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 1499 187 14_Re: Mazel tov!5_Wendy28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 19:04:31 -0400475_iso-8859-1 Mazal Tov, Nicole! May you have nachas from him and all of your kinderlach. Torah, chuppah, maasim tovim, and all that good stuff. Don't forget to take care of you, too. (BTW, what a beautiful name...)

All the best!

Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti, Moshe Yosef, Akiva, Rachmy and Chevi
----- Original Message -----
From: Nicole Brackman
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 1:16 PM
Subject: [TORCH-D] Mazel tov! [...]49_2Sep200519:04:31-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1687 152 14_Re: Mazel tov!14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 22:36:09 +0200317_us-ascii Mazal Nicole, what a beautiful start into the year for you all. Hugs to
your middle girl from me too! One thing I did when my second was born
was give the first one a toy and say it was from the baby. It seemed to
be a good thing for a little bit anyway. :-)
Chodesh tov to you all,
Laya [...]38_3Sep200522:36:09+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 1840 26 16_Mazel Tov NICOLE16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 19:55:42 -0400656_us-ascii Nicole
Mazel Tov.

In passing, this is the first time that I hear that "adjustments" to new
siblings is as simple as increasing "the number of hugs" Let us know how
it works (Think of all the books written about sibling rivalry---they
will go to waist if we increase hugging)

Russell; http://www.Rashiyomi.com/

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_4Sep200519:55:42-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 1867 68 21_Re-introducing myself14_Chaya Phillips27_callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:49:36 -0400516_iso-8859-1 My name is Chaya Phillips, and I am returning to homeschooling this year. In the past, I was part of this list. At the time, all four of my children were learning at home. I live in Boca Raton, FL. My son Yehuda is in 5th grade, and I am interested in judaics for 5th graders. I found parsha on e-chinuch.org (thanks to Lisa Swift for reminding me of this great resource), and I have a few Torah books. What else do you all teach your boys at this age? I'm looking forward to all the learning, Chaya [...]48_6Sep200508:49:36-0400callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET 1936 165 64_Re: Re-introducing myself--What to teach 5th Graders--ANS: RASHI16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:32:05 -0400377_us-ascii Chaya
FIRST: I do remember you. Welcome back! Hopeyou stay this time longer.

FOr what it is worth my 2 years of homeschooling dealt with ages 7-11. I
taught them (advanced) Rashi....contrary to what everyone tells me (that
you have to go easy)
- they found advanced methods very easy
- they loved it
- They literally kept me after hours. [...]38_6Sep200520:32:05-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 2102 53 48_New Website for Kids--Hebrew 4 You www.Heb4u.com16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:31:41 -0400366_us-ascii Hi
Check out

www.heb4u.com

Russell

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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/38_6Sep200520:31:41-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 2156 108 70_off topic -- Urgent Rescue! Do you know anyone trapped in New Orleans?14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 11:36:59 +0200323_iso-8859-1 Since this group represents Jews in so many locations in addition to
Jewish geography in any case, I thought this notice could be helpful.
BTW, you can contribute $$ if you want to help the Jews in the region
through Chabad. As they say below, "May we all have only good news to
report always." [...]38_7Sep200511:36:59+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 2265 73 26_let me pick your brains...5_Wendy28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 07:23:06 -0400373_iso-8859-1 Okay, a long time ago someone (Avivah?) recommended a davening CD. Can you refresh my memory? We need something for Shacharis.

Also, I was surfing around last night and found a program called "Prayer Practice." Has anyone used it? Worth my hard earned $$?

Thanks, guys...
Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti, Moshe Yosef, Akiva, Rachmy and Chevi [...]49_7Sep200507:23:06-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 2339 54 4_Math14_Chaya Phillips27_callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:02:20 -0400466_Windows-1252 Has anyone used the Singapore math? I know my neighbors use it. If not, what besides Saxon has anyone tried on the fifth grade level? Thanks, Chaya

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/48_8Sep200517:02:20-0400callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET 2394 57 8_Re: Math13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:45:27 -0700440_iso-8859-1 Yes, a bunch of us on this list use Singapore, including myself. I switched over a year and a half ago based on the very positive responses it garnered on this list from those who I respected. I have four kids using Singapore, and I would highly recommend it. I used Saxon prior to that and wasn't happy with it, though I used it for three years. But there are those who appreciate the methodical approach that Saxon takes. [...]43_8Sep200518:45:27-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 2452 22 37_hebrew english dictionary by category14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 08:32:33 +0200520_us-ascii http://www.dictionary.co.il

This is a simple to use site with lists of words in categories. The
Hebrew and Englsih are both in easy to read, large print (vowel with the
Hebrew of course)

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_8Sep200508:32:33+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 2475 38 8_Re: Math14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 18:52:53 -0700570_iso-8859-1 My kids are much younger, so I cannot comment much on
the fifth grade level. We are using Shiller Math and
Singapore, in combination. As a mathematician, I
think Shiller does a better job at developing
mathematical understanding and thinking, and Singapore
does a better job at skill-based work (though you
could customize Shiller to do skills by repeating
activities out of order, which is fine too). These
are both important. Shiller is now only up to set II
which includes some algebraic thinking, proofs, and
fractions. [...]44_8Sep200518:52:53-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 2514 62 8_Re: Math14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 21:08:28 -0500612_ISO-8859-1 I will add that Singapore comes in two varieties: the Singapore version
and the Americanized version. In the Americanized version all the
metric stuff is converted to English measurements. I have not seen it
myself so cannot give more detail. But in the original they have such
charming stuff as "Mrs Lu buys 10kg of rambutans at .95 cents apiece and
resells them at $1.15...." I wonder if the American version is Mrs
Smith selling apples. If so, what a loss. In Singapore Math people are
always making and selling stuff, very entrepreneurial.
Bill Bernstein
Nashville [...]48_8Sep200521:08:28-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 2577 59 8_Re: Math13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 19:22:39 -0700541_iso-8859-1 We use the US edition, and it is basically the same to the Singaporean version in the way that you mention - ie, names, fruits, etc, reflect the Singaporean culture. There are more American names and references, but not all by any means. I believe the main difference is that the US and metric system of measurements are taught, and the US currency is the only set of money used for examples. American vs British spellings are used, and there is only one workbook per semester (ie, two per year instead of four coursebooks). [...]43_8Sep200519:22:39-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 2637 92 8_Re: Math14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 05:20:18 +0200466_us-ascii I learned about singapore math from this group. Both kids were not
enjoying math or moving forward in math skills, but the Singapore got us
right on track. I love it and recommend it.
Laya

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 17:02:20 -0400 Chaya Phillips
writes:
Has anyone used the Singapore math? I know my neighbors use it. If not,
what besides Saxon has anyone tried on the fifth grade level? Thanks,
Chaya [...]38_9Sep200505:20:18+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 2730 39 8_Re: Math12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 00:45:34 -0400391_us-ascii My 11-year-old daughter (still homeschooling, while her younger
brother and sister go to school full time this year!) used Singapore
Math, levels 5A and 5B, last year. It went very well. I agree with
others on this list who have said that Singapore does a good job
teaching kids how to think. I'm about to order the textbooks and
workbooks for levels 6A and 6B. [...]43_9Sep200500:45:34-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 2770 91 8_Re: Math10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 23:12:06 -0700552_Windows-1252 I'm one of the many people on this list who use Singapore and highly recommend it. I started using it with my kids 3+ years ago when we began homeschooling. At that point they would have been in the 4th, 6th, and 7th grades if they had been in a regular school. I started the older two with Singapore 5A partly because the math education in their day school was so bad that they needed to relearn some things, partly because Singapore's approach is so different that I wanted them to get used to it with familiar material, and partly [...]35_8Sep200523:12:06-0700zara@HAIMO.NET 2862 33 8_Re: Math14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 08:35:33 -0400375_- >I will add that Singapore comes in two varieties: the Singapore version
>and the Americanized version. In the Americanized version all the
>metric stuff is converted to English measurements. I have not seen it
>myself so cannot give more detail. But in the original they have such
>charming stuff as "Mrs Lu buys 10kg of rambutans at .95 cents apiece and [...]38_9Sep200508:35:33-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 2896 58 21_Singapore Math Series14_Chaya Phillips27_callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 14:02:30 -0400554_Windows-1252 Thanks to all for the advice. I am going to go with it. As for the teachers manual, I am going to try to go it alone. If I don't get it(the concepts), I will order the manual and pay the extra shipping (cry). TTFN(ta ta for now), Chaya

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/48_9Sep200514:02:30-0400callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET 2955 58 25_Re: Singapore Math Series12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:48:27 -0400328_us-ascii Good luck and enjoy! Let us know how it goes.

Yael

>Thanks to all for the advice. I am going to go with it. As for the
>teachers manual, I am going to try to go it alone. If I don't get
>it(the concepts), I will order the manual and pay the extra
>shipping (cry). TTFN(ta ta for now), Chaya [...]44_10Sep200522:48:27-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 3014 91 25_Re: Singapore Math Series17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 08:00:53 -0400471_us-ascii I found the teacher's manual unnecessary for the younger grades,
where I could compute the answers mentally as the kids went through
the problems. By fifth or sixth grade, it is more useful. You save
time reviewing if you have the teacher's manual ( the back of the
student book has the answer, but no discussion of how the problem was
worked out).
Once one moves past the primary-math series, the teacher's manual is
really necessary. [...]38_11Sep200508:00:53-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 3106 34 31_Re: Teaching Math--a useful tip16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 10:32:03 -0400368_us-ascii I teach math at the University level (though I have been
involved in Elementary math).

A very useful tip is to check out the requirements of the state you
are in. Different states have different requirements and different
trackes for the number of years of algebra required.

Some states like NY have state wide tests like Regents. [...]39_11Sep200510:32:03-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 3141 286 22_FW: Two gemara classes8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 09:17:54 -0500651_us-ascii Rabbi Pollack sends the following message about his upcoming gemara
classes:

-----Original Message-----
From: Yitzchok Pollack [mailto:ypollack@sympatico.ca]
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2005 6:29 AM
To: Shoshana Sloman
Subject: Two gemara classes

Dear Mrs. Sloman,
Can you please let everyone know that I am forming two gemara classes. 1
on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday at 3 in the afternoon. The second
class will be formed at night about 7 in the eve. I am also trying to
form some chumash classes. Anyone interested should please contact me.
www.jewishhomeschool.org
Yitzchok Pollack [...]40_12Sep200509:17:54-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 3428 60 35_Re singapore math & teacher's guide14_Chaya Phillips27_callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:47:28 -0400528_iso-8859-1 Once one moves past the primary-math series, the teacher's manual is really necessary.
OK, I'll take your advise and order it. :) Did you buy the hometeacher's guide or the school teacher's guide? Chaya

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]49_11Sep200512:47:28-0400callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET 3489 65 16_Re: Shiller Math14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 23:16:56 +0300574_ISO-8859-1 Sigal,

Since Shiller Math is relatively new on the market, can you tell us
about your experiences with it? Especially if you use it in the older
grades.

My ds is almost 8 and has a few more weeks of Miquon left. We were going
to move to Singapore 4A upon finishing Miquon (after a few weeks of 3B
just to get a feel for how Singapore works), but our son is a very
intuitive mathematical thinker and Singapore Math doesn't seem to be
support his desire to use alternative routes to solve a math problem.
Shiller II seems to [...]46_11Sep200523:16:56+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 3555 100 25_Re: Singapore Math Series13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:07:49 -0700620_iso-8859-1 Chana,

For the fifth and sixth grades, are you suggesting the purchase of the solutions manual or the home instructor's guide?

Then, for NEM, what have you found most useful? (I didn't make the order I considered making of this several months ago, because I wasn't up to it and couldn't figure out the following aspect.) There is a teacher's guide, text, workbook, and solution manual. Obviously, the text and workbook are necessary, but are both the teacher's guide and solution manual necessary? In the description I have of the teacher's guide, it says that it is virtually identical to [...]44_12Sep200511:07:49-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 3656 126 16_Re: Shiller Math14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 11:31:19 -0700560_iso-8859-1 I emailed Malkie off-list to ask what her specific
questions are, but I can make some general remarks
here.

I have only used the level I set with my kids, but we
own the level II and I have looked through it. I like
the spiral idea very much -- it allows my kids to do
an activity, let the ideas marinate while they do
other activities, and then go back to this idea. This
reinforces the conceptual basis of the operations.
More "drill" can be provided by going over the same
problems or by using other texts. [...]45_12Sep200511:31:19-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 3783 76 16_Re: Shiller Math17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:16:27 -0400575_us-ascii >Sigal,
>
>Since Shiller Math is relatively new on the market, can you tell us
>about your experiences with it? Especially if you use it in the
>older grades.
>
>My ds is almost 8 and has a few more weeks of Miquon left. We were
>going to move to Singapore 4A upon finishing Miquon (after a few
>weeks of 3B just to get a feel for how Singapore works), but our son
>is a very intuitive mathematical thinker and Singapore Math doesn't
>seem to be support his desire to use alternative routes to solve a
>math problem. Shiller II [...]38_12Sep200515:16:27-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 3860 280 25_Re: Singapore Math Series17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:24:37 -0400474_us-ascii >Chana,
>
>For the fifth and sixth grades, are you suggesting the purchase of
>the solutions manual or the home instructor's guide?

Solutions manual, published by Sonlight. Pricey, but helpful if you
don't have a lot of time for working through every problem yourself.
Useful when the kids get stuck. Be aware that often, they find
alternate ways to solve a problem. I did not find any need to
purchase the home instructor's guide. [...]38_12Sep200515:24:37-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 4141 74 18_Re: Singapore math13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 16:09:31 -0700643_iso-8859-1 Thanks, Chana, this is extremely helpful, just what I needed to know. And you just saved me over $30 on my math order for just one child!

Did your daughter get married yet?

Avivah

For NEM: I did buy the workbook: mostly extra problem sets and sample
exams, but unless you are looking for extra practice, it is not
really necessary. The textbook itself has plenty of problems to work
through.
The Sonlight Solutions manual works through the basic problems
step-by-step, a great time-saver when reviewing. If you order nothing
else, order this.
I also ordered the teacher's guide, which [...]44_12Sep200516:09:31-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 4216 217 31_FW: Welcome to the TORCH-D list9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:35:56 -0500348_us-ascii We have two grown and gone, two teens, and an 8 and 11 year old.

It's that time of year when I start thinking about not schooling again.
So I have looked at a few sites on the net and have decided to subscribe
to a few of them. I just signed up with chinuch at home and sent them
this intro which I offer to you, too: [...]40_12Sep200521:35:56-0500malikids@GMAIL.COM 4434 26 16_Re: Shiller Math10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 17:23:42 -0700414_iso-8859-1 Malkie wrote:

> Singapore Math doesn't seem to be
> support his desire to use alternative routes to solve a math problem.

One of the great strengths of Singapore math is that it encourages finding
alternate ways of solving problems - there are often 2 or more approaches
demonstrated when concepts are first introduced. I don't know much about
Shiller since it is so new. [...]36_12Sep200517:23:42-0700zara@HAIMO.NET 4461 241 35_Re: FW: Welcome to the TORCH-D list14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 06:57:48 +0200486_us-ascii Welcome Beth! Thanks for the nice introduction. I was on the other
email list for a while but needed to simplify. This is a great group
with fantastic resources. I'm sure you've got great ideas and I hope
you'll post a bunch about your homeschool experiences. You're ahead of
me on the trail of homeschool although we've been doing it for years.
We've been in Tzfat for over a year and a half now. I have a boy 11 (who
just started school) and a girl 9. [...]39_14Sep200506:57:48+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 4703 234 35_Re: FW: Welcome to the TORCH-D list9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 19:19:31 -0700648_ISO-8859-1 Shalom Laya:

My second daughter lives in Israel--Jerusalem for now. Do you do anything
with the homeschoolers there? We know several families there. Where were you
located before Tzfat? What kind of school is your son entering? My teenagers
attended a "Free(dom)" (publiclly funded private alternative) school for
several years on and off. It was started by several homeschooling families
and had its plusses and minuses but is still school and as such, different
than homeschooling. Our conclusion was that it was a good experience for
them and is probably best for kids between ages 8 to 14. If anyone [...]40_14Sep200519:19:31-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 4938 34 16_babysitting help6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:52:59 -0600409_US-ASCII Our new year of learning is off to a good start with great materials, a
motivated mommy and excited kids. However, our almost 2 yo wants no part of
sitting and doing activities, writing, Hebrew reading, etc. He is on a
mission to torpedo each and every morning! So far we are trying to fit a
great deal into his naptime, but it's just not enough time to really get
into anything. [...]42_15Sep200509:52:59-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 4973 133 20_Re: babysitting help9_beth mali18_malikids@GMAIL.COM31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 13:53:48 -0700569_ISO-8859-1 Since I am new to the list I don't know where all people live. In my area,
my daughter tells me that mimimum wage is the going rate for the first two
kids.
If you want to save money, there are other ways to get babysitting. One way
is to find someone that is willing to do a swap for babysitting at a
different time. This would require your time instead of money. Another might
be to trade a "class"(maybe in beginning hebrew, or Hebrew calligraphy) for
babysitting. That might be worth twice or more the time. For instance you
[...]40_15Sep200513:53:48-0700malikids@GMAIL.COM 5107 35 32_Re: new homeschooling challenges17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 02:28:17 -0400572_us-ascii >
>
>Did your daughter get married yet?
>
>Avivah

My daughter got married labor day.
And my 12 and 14 year-old are off to school in New Jersey ( 8th and
9th grade respectively).
The only one still home is my 5 year old.
And I am still trying to adjust to the quiet.. Also -- believe it or
not-- for those of you dealing with the challenge of teaching with
babies/toddlers on hand, I am struggling with the challenge of
educating a single child at home. Over the years, I have come to
depend on the companionship my [...]38_16Sep200502:28:17-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 5143 63 2_Hi14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Wed, 21 Sep 2005 18:47:14 -0500498_iso-8859-1 Hi all,

Did I miss something or is everyone busy?? I haven't received an email from the group for a couple of days now. Hope all is well with all of you.

~Mandy "Sara"

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/45_21Sep200518:47:14-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 5207 64 6_Re: Hi13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 21 Sep 2005 21:52:33 -0700405_iso-8859-1 Nope, you didn't miss anything. I think everyone is probably just busy getting into their school year and setting up new systems. At least that's how it's been over here, especially since the oldest four kids all went to camp for the first time. So there was a big break between our summer and 'school' routines. It's nice to be back into the swing of things - gosh, I love homeschooling! [...]44_21Sep200521:52:33-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 5272 158 6_Re: Hi14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:10:34 +0200442_us-ascii There is a rush of simchas for us... weddings, bar mitzvahs, shevah
brachot (one of which I'm hosting tonight... hey Aviva, am I avoiding
sweeping the yard? :-}) We're doing a country hoe down BBQ in Eretz
haKodesh for a Denver Cowgirl Callah! It's very cool. Wish you ALL were
HERE!

Here's your official inviation to come home,
with blessings for a sweet new year,
Laya
happily home is tzfat [...]39_22Sep200510:10:34+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 5431 51 6_Re: Hi12_ruthie thurm21_ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 06:53:46 -0700390_iso-8859-1 dear mandy... all is well on the thurm homefront... we started our first year on September 7, and we've been having a fantastic time... I'm trying to get all my friends to do this... they really don't realize what they're missing...

ruthie...

---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. [...]43_22Sep200506:53:46-0700ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM 5483 195 6_Re: Hi14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:53:40 -0500394_iso-8859-1 Dear Ruthie,

I missed your info. What grade are you teaching this year? A friend of mine almost gave up hscling. after the birth of her 4th child who was born 1 day before my latest son ( 11 wks ago) :-) She did stick with it after I said, " 'cmon, you're only one child ahead of me, I'm hanging in there and I'm not superwoman! ( Our children are pretty close in ages ) [...]45_22Sep200514:53:40-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 5679 60 38_Re: was Hi, now challenges after birth13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:35:00 -0700277_iso-8859-1 >>A friend of mine almost gave up hscling. after the birth of her 4th child who was born 1 day before my latest son ( 11 wks ago) :-) She did stick with it after I said, " 'cmon, you're only one child ahead of me, I'm hanging in there and I'm not superwoman!<< [...]44_22Sep200519:35:00-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 5740 575 38_Re: was Hi, now challenges after birth8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:58:23 -0500603_us-ascii > So I think that it is a healthy kind of balance that I have developed.

Avivah, I have undergone a similar transformation over the decades, in
just about every aspect of life. From being very idealistic and feeling
that there is one right way (or maybe a small number of variations that
could be considered right), to understanding that there can be a variety
of appropriate responses for a given situation. I still have my
preferences, personal favorites, and dislikes. And I still think that
there can be INAPPROPRIATE ways to go. But my mind is more open than [...]40_23Sep200505:58:23-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 6316 317 35_The Voice of a Child-story, longish14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:42:12 +0200577_us-ascii I'm on an email list called "insight of the day" where we get a quote
each day and a story on Friday. I thought it might be thought provoking
to people on this list in light of some of the discussions that have come
up in the past.
Shabbat Shalom, Laya
*************************
The Voice of a Child
Cory and Mark were the best of friends. They were like two peas in a pod,
inseparable most days. They even managed to hang out at recess time,
which meant chatting over the fence that separated their schools. When
Mark played at our [...]39_23Sep200511:42:12+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 6634 233 38_Re: was Hi, now challenges after birth14_Chaya Phillips27_callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:35:28 -0400421_iso-8859-1 Well written Avivah! I agree completely. I still tend to lean to unschooling, however I have found that my son is needing more structure now that he is older. Chaya in Boca Raton_mom to four interdependent children
----- Original Message -----
From: Avivah Werner
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] was Hi, now challenges after birth [...]49_23Sep200506:35:28-0400callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET 6868 117 13_Childrens age14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:01:01 -0500506_iso-8859-1 Avivah wrote:
"How old are your kids again, Mandy? 4, 2, and newborn? Or is your oldest closer to 6?"

Avivah,

My oldest son is 4 years old. He'll be 5 in march.. He's a smart little guy, I'm trying to keep up with him! He wants to learn cursive Hebrew which I do not know so it'll be fun when we get started on that one!
Tobias ( 4 yo ) picked up a dead tree frog yesterday to my dismay so I had to explain to him how we do not touch dead things. Phew.. you can imagine [...]45_23Sep200508:01:01-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 6986 71 38_Re: was Hi, now challenges after birth14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:10:24 -0400379_- >Homeschooling isn't always easy, and I can certainly understand someone
feeling overwhelmed and discouraged. I have had times that I wondered if my
kids would be better off in school (and if we were to be open and honest, I
would bet that the great majority of us have had similar thoughts at times),
and right after a new baby is a major strain on everyone. [...]39_23Sep200511:10:24-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 7058 51 6_Re: Hi12_ruthie thurm21_ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:34:25 -0700542_iso-8859-1 hi mandy... I'm teaching my eldest son who is 9, a fourth grader; my eldest daughter who is turning 7, a second grader; the next daughter who will be 5 I"H next week, who is pre-1A; the next son who just had his upsherin, who is nursery; and the little ones who are (almost) 2 and 5 1/2 months are learning from everyone... my husband and I always talk about the possibility of making aliyah... may we all be zoche to be mekayaim this mitzvah be'ezras Hashem... until then let's all enjoy the special times we are zoche to be [...]43_23Sep200511:34:25-0700ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM 7110 24 59_Re: Unschooling vs structure (Answers to Avivah and Chayah)16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 00:08:29 -0400358_us-ascii Chayah
Unschooling is NOT about lack of structure but rather about TAYLORING
structure to the student (He gets the structure he asks for). The point
of unschooling is that schools make a mistake in giving all students the
SAME structure. So.....you are right on track when you give your son the
structure he asks for
Russell; [...]39_25Sep200500:08:29-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 7135 37 25_Re: Questions about Islam16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Sat, 24 Sep 2005 23:39:47 -0400410_us-ascii Rachel
If you are homeschooling Jewish children then you should tell them that
according to our tradtions
- Heaven/Paradise is not about getting virgins--it is about a) Being in
the presence of God and b) finding pleasure in that presence

- According to our traditions and common sense, murderers cannot get into
heaven (because they cannot repent=undo what they have done) [...]39_24Sep200523:39:47-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 7173 119 30_Re: Son too independent minded12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:48:45 -0400396_iso-8859-1 Hi,

What does one do with an almost 15 year old wants to get into shape over the next several months and go bike riding alone through the New England states? And after that he wants to spend three months biking around Texas, and after that he's off to Europe. I know he needs more stimulation that we have not been able to give him because of financial constraints, but... [...]46_25Sep200512:48:45-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 7293 18 31_Re: Son too independent - cont.12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 12:51:57 -0400443_iso-8859-1 By the way, the book Dove is supposed to be a true story.

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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG46_25Sep200512:51:57-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 7312 79 30_Re: son too independent minded13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:17:04 -0700568_iso-8859-1 One of my favorite books is My Side of the Mountain, about a thirteen year old who goes to live in the woods on his own for a year, with his mother's permission. It seems that there really is a strong and magnetic pull towards independence in the teen years, and they are getting old enough to be able to accomplish many of the things they couldn't do on their own when they were younger. I remember hearing about the book Dove somewhere, maybe in Grace Lewellyn's Teenage Liberation Handbook. Sounds like a book with a powerful message, especially to [...]44_25Sep200510:17:04-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 7392 371 30_Re: son too independent minded12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:49:36 -0400440_iso-8859-1 Hi Aviva,

I very much appreciate your reply. I hadn't really asked him why he wants to do this - maybe because he's told me in different ways and I understand his emotions. I'm not sure that going with a group (could I even find a Jewish, let alone Shomer Shabbos, group?) would suit him. He expects to do his research and hook up with Jewish families before he goes so that he will have someplace to go for Shabbos. [...]46_25Sep200513:49:36-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 7764 155 30_Re: Son too independent minded10_Louise Fox20_louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:57:55 +0200540_ISO-8859-1 Caryn,

What I would add to what Avivah wrote about you being the parent is that
I think the proving should be the other way round. Rather than you
having to give him good reasons why not, he has to convince you why it
is safe and why he should go. You are the parent and you are responsible
for his well-being and safety. Barbara Coloroso (in her book Kids Are
Worth It) suggests we let our kids know that we are listening with an
open mind and that they have to convince us why it is a good thing. [...]42_25Sep200521:57:55+0200louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM 7920 423 30_Re: son too independent minded14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:20:19 +0200563_us-ascii Dear Caryn,
(We just read My Side of the Mountain out loud a week ago! We also love
that book.)

My oldest is also young, but I've been a foster mom to two different 14
year old girls and worked with teens in various settings. (and wrote a
book for teens that's been pretty well received by the readers). I have
some "grist for the mill". One thing that Aviva brought up about "who is
the parent" is an important piece. But at nearly 15 "because I'm the
parent" will no longer fly. It's good on younger kids to define
[...]39_25Sep200522:20:19+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 8344 185 30_Re: son too independent minded13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 13:39:54 -0700542_iso-8859-1 Ahhhh, Caryn, haven't we all wished at times that one of our kids was just a little more (fill in the blank)?? Yep, parenting is tough, tough work.

I don't agree with your son's contention that one of you has to win. There are many, many choices here. I am a very big believer is the win/win philosophy - you can both get your needs met and be happy with the situation. It requires a lot of communication and the willingness to hear each other, but is much more satisfying in the end. That's why I asked what his needs [...]44_25Sep200513:39:54-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 8530 671 30_Re: son too independent minded12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 17:29:28 -0400552_iso-8859-1 Thanks to all for your wonderful support and chizuk. You've certainly given me some food for thought (although I was really hoping that somebody would tell me he's too young to go - don't let him). The thought of letting him go - if he has a well thought out plan and concrete itinerary, etc.- which he seems quite inclined to develop - is really scary and I'm not ready for this either. Especially since this sounds like the start of many more such journeys. I love him dearly and enjoy having him around (alive). I guess I'll have to [...]46_25Sep200517:29:28-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 9202 753 30_Re: son too independent minded14_Chaya Phillips27_callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 19:27:03 -0400510_iso-8859-1 Since I have a 19 year old daughter who is very independent, I will put in my two cents. One thing I have learned is when I said no, she was angry and unpleasant to be around, and she would try to do it anyway. If you ask her how she would do it, pay for it etc, and see the plan, most of the time I have found she discovered things she hadn't thought of, and changed her mind. Now she is in NY, working and almost on her own. L'Shana Tova, Chaya
----- Original Message -----
From: Caryn [...]49_25Sep200519:27:03-0400callmeforavon@BELLSOUTH.NET 9956 121 25_Re: Questions about Islam0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:37:37 EDT512_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/25/2005 12:43:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rjhendel@JUNO.COM writes:

Rachel
If you are homeschooling Jewish children then you should tell them that
according to our tradtions
- Heaven/Paradise is not about getting virgins--it is about a) Being in
the presence of God and b) finding pleasure in that presence

- According to our traditions and common sense, murderers cannot get into
heaven (because they cannot repent=undo what they have done) [...]41_25Sep200521:37:37EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 10078 621 30_Re: Son too independent minded11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:21:22 -0700641_us-ascii Caryn,

You have gotten some really good responses, and I have a slightly
different perspective. I know Dove, because prominently reachable in our
house is the original National Geographic magazines where Robin Lee
Graham documented his story. His father was urging him on by the way.
Eventually it turned into a book and then a movie. He also got married-
at sixteen, or maybe he had already turned seventeen- during his
circumnavigation. We have it, because my husband considered him a
kindred spirit. My husband didn't sail around the world, but he did take
a motorcycle trip through Africa at [...]42_25Sep200520:21:22-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 10700 90 25_Re: Questions about Islam18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 01:15:08 -0400601_us-ascii bs'd
Interesting that this should come up. I have a Muslim co-worker with whom
I work closely every day. He is of Saudi origin, and has been in this
country since high school. Perfect English. He gave a presentation on
Islam to our center of over 100 workers. It was consistent with the book
"The everything understanding Islam book - a complete and easy to read guide
to Muslim beliefs, practices, traditions, and culture" by Christine Huda Dodge
This shows the benign, let us say, strain of Islam. It is useful to me
because it helps me understand my co-worker [...]41_26Sep200501:15:08-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 10791 125 30_Re: son too independent minded12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:15:18 -0400544_iso-8859-1 Chaya, I hope you are right. Right now he expects that his next 7 months are the last he's going to spend here - everything else will just be coming back for a visit. I feel very hurt by this - whether or not it's the appropriate response.

I will really have to discuss education with him, when I get over the hurt, because there's too much missing. I was so hoping that we would have the high school years with him to help him on a good path since his "wonderful" school experiences and our even better reactions really [...]46_26Sep200508:15:18-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 10917 85 20_Re: too independent?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 08:48:15 EDT320_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/26/05 1:59:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> I did say that but he also told me that one of us was going to win and =
> if I got my way he was going to be very resentful. He thinks he could =
> get the needed experience in this amount of time [...]37_26Sep200508:48:15EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 11003 49 30_Re: Son too independent minded14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:11:57 -0400579_- Sometimes for some people, after reading an interesting book or article,
they want to fixate on the content of the book/article, and think that the
'grass is greener on the other side'. Well, the grass is not always greener
on the other side. Let this be the subject of conversation for a few
months, and perhaps it will go away after that. It is very exciting at
first, and if one cannot stop dwelling on it, then thinking about what one
can do to make it happen theoretically is fine. Embarking on such a
'life-changing' lifestyle requires a lot of [...]39_26Sep200509:11:57-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 11053 55 33_A fresh look at mishna and gemara14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:10:42 +0300662_ISO-8859-1 Rabbi Pinchas Hayman (formerly of Bar Ilan, of whom sufficient praise
cannot be given, whether or not he's listening) has come out with a
methodology and texts for teaching children (and adults) mishna and gemara.

The theory is at this site:
www.talmud-revadim.co.il

The materials (posters, workbooks, cd's) are available at this site:
www.bonayich.com

I have personally used this method and it WORKS. Instead of seeing the
gemara as a lineal text, Rabbi Hayman sees it as a three dimensional
work. (See the revadim site for more info, he explains it very well).
Although I had only a tanach and halacha [...]46_26Sep200523:10:42+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 11109 291 30_Re: son too independent minded14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 01:28:12 +0300628_ISO-8859-1 I'm just curious, Caryn--

What sorts of skills would your son need to demonstrate consistently
that would convince you that he is ready to go?

Malkie (whose neck is sore from nodding yes at all of the other posts--
especially Avivah's win/win insights. Win/win is VERY difficult for
people who aren't used to the model. It takes patience and a lot of
trust from both parties, or it can degenerate into lose/win--as opposed
to win/lose-- very quickly. But it is worth practicing because when it
works, both parties "win" more than they would have, even if they were
the winning [...]46_27Sep200501:28:12+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 11401 53 7_tehilim11_Viva Hammer18_Vivahammer@AOL.COM29_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:15:54 EDT522_US-ASCII My daughter wants to study Tehilim for her Bat Mitsva year. Has anyone ever
studied Tehilim with their children in depth? Any advice? Any
workbooks/curricula you can recommend?

Viva Hammer

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_26Sep200521:15:54EDTVivahammer@AOL.COM 11455 124 30_Re: Son too independent minded13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 19:08:04 -0700600_iso-8859-1 >>Sometimes for some people, after reading an interesting book or article,
they want to fixate on the content of the book/article, and think that the
'grass is greener on the other side'. Well, the grass is not always greener
on the other side. <<

I have often been stimulated by things I have read, not because I think the grass is greener, but because there are many intriguing ideas and possibilities that continue to arise that I sometimes have a desire to explore. Fixating is a somewhat negative term, but I usually focus intensely on one topic before moving on [...]44_26Sep200519:08:04-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 11580 48 32_My "running" away--3 suggestions16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:24:35 -0400430_us-ascii Chaya
If it will help my grandfather promised me a bar mitzvah present to take
me to Israel.

But when I was bar-mitzvahed he refused to take me. He said he was
worried I would run away and stay in Israel.

I scream and ranted and raved but to no avail (Grandparents are harder to
manipulate than parents). All my parents and siblings(and grandmother)
pitched in to help. But to no avail. [...]39_26Sep200521:24:35-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 11629 56 11_Re: tehilim16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:35:31 -0400474_us-ascii Viva
I **highly** recommend Rav HIrsch's commentary (both for children and
adults). It is "easy going" and deals with the spirit of the psalm
Russell;

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/39_26Sep200521:35:31-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 11686 34 37_Re: A fresh look at mishna and gemara14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:03:00 -0400407_- Thanks for this wonderful link. I particular like the audio memorization of
Mishna, & the various posters. Love it!

There's a book by Rabbi Don Channen of Diaspora Yeshiva, IL, called
"Tallis Ends & Other Tales", that is an introduction to the Mishna for kids
(& grownups too). Check it out! http://diaspora.org.il/oraltrad/Tallis/
You can purchase it online (do a search for it). [...]39_26Sep200522:03:00-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 11721 98 37_Re: A fresh look at mishna and gemara16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:30:41 -0400475_us-ascii As long as we are on methodology

-- My approach to Rashi is to use 10 Rules.

-- I successfully homeschooled for 2 years and elicited good chidushim
from even 5-7 year olds

-- At http://www.Rashiyomi.com/
you can find
- - - The 30 Chapter workbook (With worked out exercises)--20 chapters
so far
- - - The WEEKLY RASHI SERIES --- each digest contains 6-10 pages of
Rashis from that parshah with one example from each rule. [...]39_26Sep200521:30:41-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 11820 45 30_Re: Son too independent minded12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:45:52 -0400670_us-ascii >I am a strong proponent of encouraging independence in kids, bit by
>bit. Needy, weak, and overly dependent children didn't develop all
>of a sudden; there were years of suppressing their abilities and
>making them feel powerless, ineffective, and helpless before they
>got to that point.
>
>Avivah in Baltimore

You might also say that restricting a child's expression of his/her
natural need to become increasingly independent could be a *cause* of
rebelliousness. A child who feels a sense of self-mastery (in an
age-appropriate way) is probably more likely to be agreeable and open
to the influence of parents when [...]44_26Sep200522:45:52-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 11866 74 36_Re: My "running" away--3 suggestions8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 05:18:29 -0500563_us-ascii Russell, that is such a funny story. You should write a book about your
life experiences! You could incorporate all those wonderful lessons
your mother taught.

-Shoshana

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Russell J Hendel
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 8:25 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] My "running" away--3 suggestions

Chaya
If it will help my grandfather promised me a bar mitzvah present to take
me to Israel. [...]40_27Sep200505:18:29-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 11941 61 30_Re: Son too independent minded12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 23:07:47 -0400516_iso-8859-1 Just wanted to thank you for all your posts which are helping me to clarify in my own mind where I stand and why. Will respond in more detail tomorrow when I have time.

Layla Tov.

Caryn

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/46_26Sep200523:07:47-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 12003 87 25_Re: Questions about Islam12_ruthie thurm21_ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 09:05:09 -0700617_iso-8859-1 - NonJews who are murdered from any religion who believe in God and
follow moral law because God ordered it do have a place in Paradise as
commented above Paradise consists of basking in the Pleasure of the
Divine presence.

Russell...

A question about the above statement (and I quote):

The Midrash Says, by Rabbi Moshe Weissman in The Book of Bereishis -Third Day of Creation in discussing Gan Eden (pgs. 18-21); Chazal tell of the story of R. Yehoshuah ben Laivi's report to R. Gamliel regarding the presence of yidden in Gehinnom and goyim in Gan Eden... he describes [...]43_27Sep200509:05:09-0700ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM 12091 56 45_Re: Questions about Islam--Inaccurate Sources17_rjhendel@juno.com17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM29_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:45:56 GMT620_- Ruthie and everyone else
Glad you brought this to my attention. Although I am answering you, I believe the whole group
could benefit since there are blatantly incorrect statements in your citation. This brings up the
problem for hschoolers of how to deal with inaccurate citations.
Let me try and clarify: The issue is what sources SHOULD you trust on these matters. In answering this question there is the issue that some equally authoratative sources might disagree. There is a further issue that since Paradise and Hell represent the solution to God's apparent injustice in this world we must take [...]37_27Sep200523:45:56GMTrjhendel@JUNO.COM 12148 276 30_Re: Son too independent minded11_Rick Dinitz16_dinitz@TIBCO.COM31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 17:49:53 -0700716_ISO-8859-1 Caryn,

Avivah's response spoke to me -- take a deep breath, and structure it as
a learning experience. To her words, I would add some of my own
positive experiences relating to cycling and bicycle touring.

Bicycling is an excellent way to develop real independence. The cyclist
must take primary responsibility for self-propulsion, navigation,
obeying traffic laws, maneuvering safely, proper nutrition, and much
more. And that's just when cycling around the neighborhood! Longer
distances add additional responsibilities, and increase the breadth and
depth at which a cyclist must be independent. It's a fine introduction
to the responsibilities of adult life, [...]38_27Sep200517:49:53-0700dinitz@TIBCO.COM 12425 84 25_Re: Questions about Islam15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:19:29 -0700733_- Chana,

My husband and I just finished Robert Spencer's new book and found it an
excellent read. I think my son (almost 11) is too young for it though; it's
very disturbing, albeit true. I think it would be great for 8th grade and
up.

Michelle

>From: YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Questions about Islam
>Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 21:37:37 EDT
>
>
>
>In a message dated 9/25/2005 12:43:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>rjhendel@JUNO.COM writes:
>
>Rachel
>If you are homeschooling Jewish children then you should tell them that
>according to our tradtions
[...]47_27Sep200519:19:29-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 12510 82 20_Re: too independent?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:24:32 EDT517_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/27/05 2:00:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> My son (20) and one of my daughters (21) did a parachute jump from an
> airplane today. They earned the money, found the instructors and did it.
> Now, I don't even jump off a diving board, and if I had my druthers they
> would have stayed firmly on the ground, but they both have an
> adventurous streak and if I don't rejoice in that, I am rejecting an
> important part of them.
> [...]37_28Sep200509:24:32EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 12593 85 20_Re: too independent?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:35:38 EDT551_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/27/05 2:00:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> You're right, even young children have a desire to independence, to master
> the world around them and this is healthy and NORMAL.

I had to chuckle here. My almost 4 y.o. will sometimes be doing something,
and I will express concern, displeasure or just a firm, STOP, you can't do that.
And she answers me so angelically, I'm allowed. So then I say, you are NOT
allowed, I don't allow it. And she says, I'm allowed. [...]37_28Sep200509:35:38EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 12679 30 25_Re: Questions about Islam14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:47:27 -0400564_- Based on what I've read/learn, righteous Gentiles have a place in Olam Haba.
Rav. Eliyahu Dessler, zt"l, "Strive for Truth", (Feldheim), delves into this
in more detail. There's a Gemara I believe, that says roughly, that, "It
only takes 1 hour to earn a place in Olam Haba", in full repentance. Cases
cited includes the executioner of Rabbi Akiva (perhaps, or another martyr,
sorry), at the execution by the Romans, who relieved the Rabbi of pain from
slow torturous death at the fire, and earned a place in Olam Haba
instantaneously. [...]39_28Sep200509:47:27-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 12710 22 45_Chofetz Chaim Yarhtzeit today special program15_Merilyn Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:55:03 -0400592_- CCHF yahrzeit event - last part for children

CONFERENCE CALL-IN NUMBER 5:00-7:00 pm 212-990-8000;
212-461-5800; 212-461-5860; 865-362-4050; pin 4505#
5:00 exciting story-telling Program for Children and
special contest with prizes

great speakers in store!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_28Sep200513:55:03-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 12733 216 30_Re: Son too independent minded15_Bara Loewenthal26_bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 19:57:06 -0600564_iso-8859-1 Hi,
I just wanted to add my few insights into the matter. There is something to
be said for adventure and the feeling of independence while experiencing it.
I made Aliyah when I was 17. I went by myself with minimal knowledge of
English and zero knowledge of Hebrew. I went to the Shaliyah office in
Prague, Czech Republic and said that I wanted to go. You might ask where
were my parents in all of this. Divorced and each with new families and
babies that I really did not belong to anymore. Sad but I learned to live
with [...]48_28Sep200519:57:06-0600bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM 12950 28 30_Re: Son too independent minded14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:35:43 -0400574_- A suggestion for your son, Caryn:

With your support, of course, have your son put up a poster in your frum
community to form a frum bicycling club, and engage older, experienced frum
bicyclists to be advisors. Or join an existing frum bicyclist club, if any.
That way, your son will not attempt to "do it alone" and "go against his
parents wishes". If there is interest, I think it might work out. Start
small. I would not recommend joining a secular bicycling club, as the only
frum Jewish member. The risk of straying off the path is high. [...]39_28Sep200522:35:43-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 12979 95 30_Re: Son too independent minded12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 22:31:27 -0400574_us-ascii I just have to say WOW, Bara, what a story!!! Thank you so much for sharing it!

Yael

>Hi,
>I just wanted to add my few insights into the matter. There is
>something to be said for adventure and the feeling of independence
>while experiencing it. I made Aliyah when I was 17. I went by myself
>with minimal knowledge of English and zero knowledge of Hebrew. I
>went to the Shaliyah office in Prague, Czech Republic and said that
>I wanted to go. You might ask where were my parents in all of this.
>Divorced and each with new [...]44_28Sep200522:31:27-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 13075 27 22_$100 lap-tops for kids6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:26:53 -0600665_US-ASCII Check out this link for a really interesting article about an MIT professor
developing $100 laptops for children in developing countries (and all of the
poor kids in developed countries!). Maybe homeschoolers can get in on this
one too! ;)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050928/ap_on_hi_te/hundred_dollar_laptop

Shoshana Z.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_28Sep200520:26:53-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 13103 52 18_A sad announcement15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:27:09 -0700598_iso-8859-1 Hi everyone -

This morning, at 7 am, we opened our front door to
find two Air Force officers standing there (a Major
and a Chaplain). My husband's daughter, Elizabeth,
was killed this morning by a roadside bomb while
transporting troops in Iraq. She was 21.

Elizabeth was serving in the Air Force on the Military
Police Force. We were so proud of her and her
contribution to our country. We know little in the
way of details right now, but it is my hope that your
tefilos will include our family. My husband's name is
Dovid Moshe ben Sarah, [...]45_28Sep200521:27:09-0700alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 13156 86 30_Re: Son too independent minded12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 08:07:56 -0400580_iso-8859-1 I have to tell you all that I'm feeling a lot better about the practical
aspects of dd wanting to travel through New England (and beyond) as a result
of all your responses. I really appreciate hearing about your personal
experiences. I never realized that this desire for independence and
exploration was so prevalent at such a young age (excepting Tom Sawyer and
Huck Finn), that you really have to let them go and that it's okay. I tend
to think of dd as marching to the beat of a different drummer. Maybe he's
just more outspoken about it! [...]46_29Sep200508:07:56-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 13243 132 25_Re: Questions about Islam0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:08:45 EDT642_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/28/2005 9:49:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
merilyn@ABSOL.COM writes:

Based on what I've read/learn, righteous Gentiles have a place in Olam Haba.
Rav. Eliyahu Dessler, zt"l, "Strive for Truth", (Feldheim), delves into this
in more detail. There's a Gemara I believe, that says roughly, that, "It
only takes 1 hour to earn a place in Olam Haba", in full repentance. Cases
cited includes the executioner of Rabbi Akiva (perhaps, or another martyr,
sorry), at the execution by the Romans, who relieved the Rabbi of pain from
slow torturous death at the fire, and earned a place in [...]41_29Sep200509:08:45EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 13376 72 22_Re: A sad announcement14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:00:04 +0200593_us-ascii Dear Alison,
Your grief is shared by us all. The loss of one life is the loss of a
world. I'm crying with you. I hold you and yours in my heart with love
and blessings for healing in your family and this world.
big (((((hugs)))))
love,
Laya

On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:27:09 -0700 Alison Jacobson
writes:
> Hi everyone -
>
> This morning, at 7 am, we opened our front door to
> find two Air Force officers standing there (a Major
> and a Chaplain). My husband's daughter, Elizabeth,
> was killed this morning by [...]39_29Sep200521:00:04+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 13449 87 12_Re: sad news13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 11:03:03 -0700402_iso-8859-1 Dear Alison,

This is so heartbreaking and must be a horrible shock and incredibly painful for your whole family. If it is any consolation (I know it probably isn't), when someone is lost in our armed service, it isn't seen as just the personal loss to one family. Many, many Americans mourn for them as well, knowing that they were doing what they did to protect the rest of us. [...]44_29Sep200511:03:03-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 13537 147 22_Re: A sad announcement0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:25:43 EDT398_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/29/2005 1:42:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM writes:

Hi everyone -

This morning, at 7 am, we opened our front door to
find two Air Force officers standing there (a Major
and a Chaplain). My husband's daughter, Elizabeth,
was killed this morning by a roadside bomb while
transporting troops in Iraq. She was 21. [...]41_29Sep200514:25:43EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 13685 23 22_Re: A sad announcement16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:31:56 -0400560_iso-8859-1 Oh, Alison. How terribly, terribly sad. You and your family are in our
prayers. What you wrote about your stepdaughter was beautifully said.
Thank you for supporting her in her decision to defend our country.

Ellen in Boston

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]50_29Sep200514:31:56-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 13709 80 22_Re: A sad announcement12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:09:56 -0400575_iso-8859-1 What a wonderful and courageous girl she was. Our thoughts and prayers are
with you.

Caryn

>
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 21:27:09 -0700 Alison Jacobson
> writes:
> > Hi everyone -
> >
> > This morning, at 7 am, we opened our front door to
> > find two Air Force officers standing there (a Major
> > and a Chaplain). My husband's daughter, Elizabeth,
> > was killed this morning by a roadside bomb while
> > transporting troops in Iraq. She was 21.
> >
> > Elizabeth was serving in the Air [...]46_29Sep200518:09:56-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 13790 69 22_Re: A sad announcement16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:54:35 -0700628_us-ascii I'm so sorry to hear about Elizabeth. May Hashem comfort you among the
mourners of Zion and Jerusalem.
Brenda

Alison Jacobson wrote:

>Hi everyone -
>
>This morning, at 7 am, we opened our front door to
>find two Air Force officers standing there (a Major
>and a Chaplain). My husband's daughter, Elizabeth,
>was killed this morning by a roadside bomb while
>transporting troops in Iraq. She was 21.
>
>Elizabeth was serving in the Air Force on the Military
>Police Force. We were so proud of her and her
>contribution to our country. We know little in the
>way [...]43_29Sep200518:54:35-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 13860 101 22_Re: A sad announcement15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:58:37 -0700677_- Dear Alison,

My most profound condolences and heartfelt prayers for you and your family.
As an American, I am so truly grateful for Elisabeth's service to our
country. May her memory always be for a blessing.

Love,
Michelle

>From: Laya B Jackson
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] A sad announcement
>Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 21:00:04 +0200
>
>Dear Alison,
>Your grief is shared by us all. The loss of one life is the loss of a
>world. I'm crying with you. I hold you and yours in my heart with love
>and blessings for [...]47_29Sep200520:58:37-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 13962 31 18_A sad announcement17_Maria Pereverzeva22_maria-p@ROCKETMAIL.COM31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 01:20:17 -0700651_iso-8859-1 Dear Alison--
You and your family are in our thoughts and prayers.
May Hashem comfort you with the mourners of Zion. May He give you
strength to survive through this terrible loss.

Love,
Maria

__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]44_30Sep200501:20:17-0700maria-p@ROCKETMAIL.COM 13994 76 22_Re: A sad announcement8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:06:46 -0500549_us-ascii Alison, I feel at a loss to respond to this, because words are so weak.
Just know that I am among the many who are forever deeply grateful to
your step-daughter and your whole family for having been willing to risk
this ultimate sacrifice.

Love and comfort,
Shoshana

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Alison Jacobson
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 11:27 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] A sad announcement [...]40_30Sep200512:06:46-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM