1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d July 2005 2 66 19_Re: Getting Nervous15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 04:58:39 -0700513_iso-8859-1 BS"D

Thanks to all who responded. I have to laugh, Rivky, when I read your post. You're absolutely correct -- it's a lot to take on. Why am I not sending her to school? Well, even if I didn't "believe" in homeschooling, which I have come to, I wouldn't put her in one school for a few months only to pull her out and put her in another when we move. Not fair to a small child. For another, the tuition here is out of control and even for kindergarten it is a real stretch for us. In NY she [...]39_1Jul200504:58:39-0700drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 69 113 20_Re: avivah's article0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:33:59 EDT495_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/1/05 1:54:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> will let you know what kind of feedback it gets next month when I see the
> letters to the editor. The editor put it immediately following an interview
> with a local rebbi teaching using the Zilberman method. Interestingly, when
> R' Zilberman was looking for a cheder for his kids, he couldn't find one that
> taught according to the mishna (ben chamesh lmikra, etc [...]36_1Jul200511:33:59EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 183 336 11_Re: article11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:30:46 -0400559_- Avivah,
You can count me in as another person who is giving you feedback and telling
you that they appreciate your article. Thank you for your efforts. I have
always thought of writing an article and handing it to people who ask about
my homeschooling. I dont know that i had in mind to just hand out articles
every time someone asks, but i thought it might be nice to have something
ready in case i get into a conversation where someone has a lot of
challenges and questions that i am finding annoying, i would be able to say
[...]43_1Jul200513:30:46-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 520 128 11_Re: article13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:22:22 -0700521_iso-8859-1 Thanks for your feedback, Rivky. You (and anyone who wants to print it out or pass it out) are welcome to, but please make sure my name is on it. (I edited out the byline when I cut and pasted it in for the list.) It would be nice to hear to whom/for what purpose it was being used. By the way, I don't think it is true that when something is written publicly that you can automatically assume it's okay to make a copy. There are copyright laws regarding this, and in many instances, you need to have the [...]43_1Jul200511:22:22-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 649 182 19_Re: Getting Nervous17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:59:52 -0400598_us-ascii Card games, conversations and cooking sound like great curricular
anchors ( maybe we should call them the 3 c's).
Four and five year olds learn most from being active members of the
household that you create.
Trust yourself, and you will do fine.

Chana

>BS"D
>
>Thanks to all who responded. I have to laugh, Rivky, when I read
>your post. You're absolutely correct -- it's a lot to take on. Why
>am I not sending her to school? Well, even if I didn't "believe" in
>homeschooling, which I have come to, I wouldn't put her in one
>school for [...]37_1Jul200514:59:52-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 832 179 11_Re: article11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 15:10:57 -0400640_- See my inserted comments.

>From: Avivah Werner
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] article
>Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 11:22:22 -0700
>
>Thanks for your feedback, Rivky. You (and anyone who wants to print it out
>or pass it out) are welcome to, but please make sure my name is on it. (I
>edited out the byline when I cut and pasted it in for the list.) It would
>be nice to hear to whom/for what purpose it was being used. By the way, I
>don't think it is true that when something is written publicly [...]43_1Jul200515:10:57-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 1012 76 11_Re: article13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:00:16 -0700365_iso-8859-1 I said I like clarity, but I obviously am not being successful in achieving it today!

In your initial post, you said kids who don't go to school don't have the opportunity to stand up to bullies, etc. I responded that school is not the only opportunity in life where a person can demonstrate some inner strength and commitment to a position. [...]43_1Jul200513:00:16-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1089 53 11_Re: article11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:54:16 -0700581_iso-8859-1 >>>There was one thing you wrote that i didnt agree with, or maybe didnt
understand what you meant. You said something about what kid can be
different and be freinds with the kid who everyone is bullying...something
like that you said. How is homeschooling going to help that? Kids who are
homeschooled dont even get to be put to that challenge. How are homeschooled
kids going to learn to stand up against a whole class deciding to bully
someone? They dont even have the opportunity. So whats the advantage of
homeschooling with that one?<<<< [...]41_1Jul200514:54:16-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 1143 251 8_vent....16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 19:40:25 -0400403_iso-8859-1 I have a big pet peeve with what seems to be a large part of the frum community: people who stare at a person and then ask "what's your name?" while saying nothing else. Are we so insular that we each feel we must know every single person in our communities?! Are we so dang rude we can't say "Hello. My name is .... What's yours?". That's how I teach my kids to say it. Why not adults? [...]49_1Jul200519:40:25-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 1395 122 12_Re: vent....14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Sat, 2 Jul 2005 22:06:30 -0500533_ISO-8859-1 You might just be a tad over-sensitive to people who are trying to
establish some common basis of communication.
But I agree it is rude to go to someone and ask their name out of the
blue. I have noticed in general that manners and etiquette are sorely
lacking but it irks me more to see it in the Orthodox community.
Sometimes I just attribute it to their having lived among peasants.
Maybe next time it could go like this:
Rude Person: What's your name?
You: Pudding and Tame. What's yours? [...]48_2Jul200522:06:30-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1518 50 33_ending thread on doulas and birth13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 2 Jul 2005 20:19:00 -0700496_iso-8859-1 I thought to end this thread three days ago, but didn't post about it because I didn't expect any more to be written. My apologies to those of you who have written on this topic in the last couple of days. The subject is going a bit off of homeschooling here, so the messages waiting for approval now will be rejected (at least one of you has already gotten the rejection notice before Shabbos). Please feel free to email others directly on the list to continue the conversation. [...]43_2Jul200520:19:00-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1569 171 12_Re: vent....8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Sat, 2 Jul 2005 22:44:01 -0500430_us-ascii Shockingly, Bill, your reaction is exactly the same as mine.

How about this scenario:

Rude Person: What's your name?

You: Oh, hi. I don't recognize you. What's your name?

Or you could respond:

My name is X, what's yours? Where do you live? Where do your kids go
to school? What does your husband do for a living? How long have you
lived here? Where did you live before? Etc. [...]39_2Jul200522:44:01-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 1741 117 11_Re: article8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Sat, 2 Jul 2005 22:55:16 -0500582_us-ascii Befriending an unpopular kid. We have discussed a number of times on
torch-d the high value placed on conformity in the frum world. That was
brought home to me once when I was talking with a wonderful, saintly
frum women whom I and everyone else likes and admires.

She was telling me about when her oldest (of more than 10 kids) was in
grade school. She said there was a boy in the class who had ADD and was
disruptive. But he would also frequently get blamed for things he
didn't do, because the teachers automatically assumed he was the
[...]39_2Jul200522:55:16-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 1859 99 11_Re: article11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:22:36 -0400612_- Okay, i think i basically get what you mean, and i do basically agree. I
also do like your article very much, and didnt mean to imply at all that
there was something i didnt like about it. What i like best about your
article, is in the beginning where you say something about how people ask a
lot of questions when they hear someone is homeschooling-what about
socialization? how do you...?-and that the first question really should be
WHY someone homeschools-not all these questions about the details.
Avivah, i was thinking about something regarding copyright laws that we were
[...]43_3Jul200507:22:36-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 1959 93 11_Re: article11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:32:36 -0400607_- Susan, honestly, i think you should write an article too.
I've always suspected that kids who are homeschooled are stronger in who
they are. Your kids eventually went to high school where they DID have the
opportunity to have those challenges. But for kids who never go to
school...well, then they would have those opportunities in camp? Or some
other group situation? But what if a homeschooled kid never does go to
school or camp? When will they get the opportunity not to follow the crowd
to do wrong? And how important is it that children get this opportunity
anyway?
[...]43_3Jul200507:32:36-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2053 114 19_Re: Getting Nervous11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:59:18 -0400547_- Nicole,
I realize that you believe in homeschooling. I had just been wondering why
you were so concerned with the formal education, and thought maybe it was
because you wanted to keep her on grade level in case she ever went to
school, is all i meant.
Let me speak from a position of someone who has had most of my kids very
close in age. When my kids were small, i had a bunch of babies. 4,3,2,1 and
pregnant with the next, type of thing. Yours arent even that close, but even
4, 2 and newborn is pretty stressful. [...]43_3Jul200507:59:18-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2168 176 20_Re: stuff for 5 y.o.0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 08:57:30 EDT561_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/2/05 2:01:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

>
> Suggestions for fun and not too pushy phonics, math, Ivrit stuff for an
> almost 5 year old would be welcome.
>
>

I liked how to teach your child to read in 100 easy lessons. It is a bit
"weird" in that the writing take a bit getting used to. I liked it cuz it is
"scripted" and tells you exactly what to say/do on any given day (though I modified
a bit). It is broken down into small bite size pieces. very nice. I [...]36_3Jul200508:57:30EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 2345 96 25_Re: homeschooling article0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 09:13:55 EDT461_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/2/05 2:01:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> But my feeling is, that if i point out to
> people how school keeps us from really enjoying our children, and frequently
>
> even puts us at risk for an ulcer, people can really relate to what i'm
> saying. So i guess that that would have been something i would have liked
> seeing more emphasized in a homeschooling article.
> [...]36_3Jul200509:13:55EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 2442 258 12_Re: manners?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 09:51:31 EDT575_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/3/05 2:00:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> You might just be a tad over-sensitive to people who are trying to
> establish some common basis of communication.
> But I agree it is rude to go to someone and ask their name out of the
> blue. I have noticed in general that manners and etiquette are sorely
> lacking but it irks me more to see it in the Orthodox community.
> Sometimes I just attribute it to their having lived among peasants.
> Maybe next time it could go like this:
> [...]36_3Jul200509:51:31EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 2701 24 37_Anyone here homeschooling in Ontario?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 11:00:46 -0400732_- I have some questions regarding homeschooling in the Province of Ontario. If
there is anyone on this list that is homeschooling in Ontario, could you
please contact me off list. Thank you. Rivky

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]43_3Jul200511:00:46-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2726 65 12_Re: vent....16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 08:56:49 -0700629_us-ascii This is what I don't like:

Rude Person: What's your name?

Me: Brenda Goldstein

Rude Person: Oh, I don't know you.

Well, I just introduced myself, you rude person!

Brenda ;(

S Sloman wrote:

>Shockingly, Bill, your reaction is exactly the same as mine.
>
>How about this scenario:
>
>Rude Person: What's your name?
>
>You: Oh, hi. I don't recognize you. What's your name?
>
>Or you could respond:
>
>My name is X, what's yours? Where do you live? Where do your kids go
>to school? What does your husband do for a living? How long have [...]42_3Jul200508:56:49-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 2792 28 17_Hebrew Vocab Help14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:02:06 -0500507_ISO-8859-1 My son's progress with Chumash is heading into the frustrating
category. The main problem is that he is missing words we have seen
many times. Ok, so time to address this directly with forced vocabulary
death marches etc. Maybe not that drastic.
Does anyone know of a listing of Hebrew words by frequency in Chumash or
Tanach? I figured if we did say 10 a week after a few weeks his vocab
would improve and things would go better.
Thanks
Bill Bernstein
Nashvegas. [...]48_3Jul200516:02:06-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 2821 138 12_Re: vent....11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 17:20:34 -0400563_- Ohhhhhh boy!!!! Long sigh. I am just picturing the scenerio. You are
standing at the camp bus stop and someone a short distance away, is looking
at you. She looks you uuuup and dowwwwwn-uuuuup and dowwwwn. Finally, she
comes over to you and says "what's your name?" and has all sorts of
questions.
Funny you should mention this today. Some time after reading this post, i
went to the Coffee Shop. Theres this coffee shop i like to go to, because
its nice and quiet and peaceful. I can sit there and do my work. Today my
work had to [...]43_3Jul200517:20:34-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2960 33 25_Re: homeschooling article11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 18:59:11 -0400452_- >Exactly! Often people ask me, I don't know how you do it. I could NEVER
>homeschool. And I respond: Well, it is a matter of picking your poison. I
>could
>NEVER have all of my kids in school all day, all the time. I can only
>manage
>having ONE child in the school system. All that carpool, homework, PTA,
>permission slip, money for this special program, that special program....it
>is just too
>much to keep track of! [...]43_3Jul200518:59:11-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2994 40 12_Re: vent....14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 02:14:07 +0300595_ISO-8859-1 Ellen--

I'm not sure if I understand.

Is it the third degree that bothers you or is it the staring, followed
by an only slightly more polite form of "who are you, and what are you
doing here?"

The third degree is cultural. We happen to inhabit a culture where it is
rude not to ask people questions about themselves (and I live in Israel,
where how much you make really is polite conversation, and when Anglos
hedge, Israelis understand them to be rude!). If you grew up outside of
the New York Jewish community (or Israel), the 3rd degree [...]45_4Jul200502:14:07+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 3035 45 20_Re: stuff for 5 y.o.14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 04:52:12 -0700578_iso-8859-1 My kids loved the "Reading Lesson" book (but not the
cd) and Yoni learned to read nicely from that program.
(Didi is now on chapter 3). You can find them at
http://www.readinglesson.com/index.htm

We also like the "Bob's Books First" series. We just
got the "Word whammer" toy by leapfrog, which is great
for phonics and some easy words. My 5 y.o loves that
(it's magnetic and lives on the refrigerator door, so
he plays with it when we're in the kitchen making
meals or cleaning up, which seems to be a large chunk
of our day). [...]44_4Jul200504:52:12-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 3081 238 12_Re: vent....8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 08:44:58 -0500447_us-ascii Well, you could politely say, "I'm sorry, but I don't have time to talk
right now because I need to get this done."

Or you could change the subject, "I don't think we've met. My name's
Rivky. What's yours?" Etc.

Or you could let them know it's not something you plan to talk about,
"Please forgive me, but what I'm working on involves personal
information about other people, so I really can't discuss it." [...]39_4Jul200508:44:58-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 3320 435 12_Re: vent....14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:08:09 -0500569_ISO-8859-1 I think:
"I'm sorry but if I dont get these forms done my parole officer will
have me back in max in no time."

That should put a stop to any questions. If it doesnt (and the person
wants to compare stories) you need to get out of there fast.
-Bill

S Sloman wrote:

>Well, you could politely say, "I'm sorry, but I don't have time to talk
>right now because I need to get this done."
>
>Or you could change the subject, "I don't think we've met. My name's
>Rivky. What's yours?" Etc.
>
>Or you could let [...]48_4Jul200510:08:09-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 3756 49 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help17_No Name Available19_BurnesFamily@CS.COM28_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 11:15:34 EDT348_US-ASCII I'm using a workbook by Rabbi Yehoshua Fulda, The Chumach Vocabulary Program.
It is published by P'tach and it says on the cover "a complete program for
nearly 300 common words found in the Chumash" It uses crossword puzzles,
matching and coloring to help teach the words. You can order it on P'tach's website:
Ptach.org. [...]38_4Jul200511:15:34EDTBurnesFamily@CS.COM 3806 60 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 08:32:30 -0700556_iso-8859-1 Bill,

Have you seen the workbooks from P'tach that teach the 100 (maybe 200, I
don't remember) most frequently used words in chumash? Also, EKS publishing
has flash cards with a couple of hundred of the most frequently used words.
I used to pick out words from these cards that were coming up in our chumash
learning and drill on a few. I have this folder with plastic slots the cards
fit into and if a child knew the word it went to the next slot. After five
days it moved into the next row which was asked once a [...]41_4Jul200508:32:30-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 3867 45 11_Re: article11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 08:44:16 -0700380_iso-8859-1 Rivky,

>>> But for kids who never go to
school...well, then they would have those opportunities in camp? Or some
other group situation? But what if a homeschooled kid never does go to
school or camp? When will they get the opportunity not to follow the crowd
to do wrong? And how important is it that children get this opportunity
anyway?<<< [...]41_4Jul200508:44:16-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 3913 140 12_Re: vent....0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM28_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:05:45 EDT372_US-ASCII You know, this has ALWAYS annoyed me whenever I venture into frum
neighborhoods, and here all this time I thought it was only me!

Its one reason why I'm having second thoughts about relocating next summer
to a frum community in a nearvy city...even though we're the only Jewish family
where we are now, the people are nice and don't do that! [...]40_4Jul200513:05:45EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 4054 43 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:07:00 -0400334_us-ascii The "Learn to Learn" software for Chumash has lots of games for
learning common vocab, which can be played at various levels. It's
for PC only (not Mac), if that matters to you. It's not flashy, but
it's fun and it works. It was done by Rabbi Moscowitz in Chicago (who
now does the Shazak books and videos). [...]43_4Jul200513:07:00-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 4098 58 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 14:56:52 -0400538_- Bill, are you saying that he use to know these words and now he seems to
have a mental block and you're both getting frustrated? That's the picture i
am getting when i read this. Whether that's right or wrong, i dont know. But
going along with my assumptions here, i think the last thing you need here
is "kill and drill." Maybe he is bored and going stir crazy from all these
words. Sounds to me like you both need a vacation. Go to some fishing
vacation spot for a week and dont take the chumash with you. When [...]43_4Jul200514:56:52-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 4157 38 21_But what's the point?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 15:09:27 -0400584_- I've started introducing Rashi to our youngest. Just getting our feet wet
now, getting familar with how Rashi letters look. He's asking a lot of
questions. I'm having a hard time understanding even what he means exactly
by his questions. The way he expresses himself is very unclear. He asks
things like "What's the point of Rashi?" "Why do we need Rashi?" and "Why
did he write differently than we do?" I try to figure out his question.
"Do you want to know why the Rashi isnt just written in the pasuk itself?"
And after explaining that i think everyone [...]43_4Jul200515:09:27-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 4196 53 29_Re: lots of small kids/videos11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:19:29 -0700521_iso-8859-1 >>> So now i will confess some of the "crazy" things i
did. One was to put my kids to bed in the clothes they would wear the next
day, so i wouldnt have to dress them in the morning. What kind of clothes do
kids that age wear? Very often it would be things like little sweat shirts
and jogging pants type of thing. Perfectly normal to wear for pajamas too. I
also made them go to their rooms for a nap durring the day, and they had to
stay there whether they slept or not, for a certain [...]41_4Jul200512:19:29-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 4250 65 18_Williamsberg, etc.11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 12:20:47 -0700436_iso-8859-1 Rena,

Thanks for a good laugh.

Susan

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG41_4Jul200512:20:47-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 4316 122 29_Re: lots of small kids/videos0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM28_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:47:03 EDT412_UTF-8 In a message dated 7/4/2005 6:45:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
suelap@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

I didn't know that was crazy. I also had four under four and then five under
six. We did the sleeping in your clothing business. We also had, to the kids
great excitement, "upside-down day", when I was too tired to make supper so
I would declare upside down day and serve cereal for supper. [...]40_4Jul200518:47:03EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 4439 26 12_Re: vent....16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:44:59 -0700608_us-ascii Once my husband asked this man we knew where he was from, and he
answered, "Shamayim"! That's one way to say "none of your business" in a
nice way, I guess!
Brenda

Rivky Kahan wrote:
But what i would like to know is how to say "none of your business" in a
nice way.

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_4Jul200516:44:59-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 4466 27 25_Re: But what's the point?12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:28:50 -0400413_us-ascii >"Why did he write differently than we do?"

My understanding is that a printer invented another style of
lettering (a new font) to differentiate Rashi's commentary from the
text of the Chumash, We call this "Rashi script" but Rashi didn't use
it or write with it. It was simply a way to identify which words were
written by Rashi, in order make the printed Chumash easier to use. [...]43_4Jul200520:28:50-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 4494 32 38_Re: But what's the point? RASHI SCRIPT16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:32:33 -0400578_us-ascii Rivky
The reason Rashi CHANGED his script
is because there was no printing press and he
had to write his comments in a hurry.

You can write Rashi letters faster than you can write ordinary hebrew.

It is like using SCRIPT in ENG vs ORDINARY ENGLISH Letters.

Here is an experiment (Which I am sure your son will love)
- Have him try and COPY some English and/or Hebrew text
- Now tell him to slur the letters and develop his own script so that he
can write it quicker
- The result will be something like Rashi script and/or [...]38_4Jul200520:32:33-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 4527 41 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 20:29:15 -0400370_us-ascii Bill
On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:02:06 -0500 Bill Bernstein
writes:
> Does anyone know of a listing of Hebrew words by frequency in
> Chumash or
> Tanach? I figured if we did say 10 a week after a few weeks his
> vocab
> would improve and things would go better.
> Thanks
> Bill Bernstein
> Nashvegas. [...]38_4Jul200520:29:15-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 4569 75 20_Re: was RASHI SCRIPT13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 02:29:08 -0700401_iso-8859-1 Interesting. John Holt wrote about experimenting with English script, believing it to be used because it was faster than print. He discovered that in fact, it was easier to write print. I myself have found this true - when I jot down notes to myself, it is always an adjusted (read: fast) print, when I want to write a letter or something longer, I use script for legibility purposes. [...]43_5Jul200502:29:08-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 4645 46 12_Re: vent....12_ruthie thurm21_ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:43:53 -0700404_iso-8859-1 hi ellen... your exasperation with the children of israel dates back to the midbar... can you just imagine what moshe rabbeinu had to put up with? no wonder he didn't want the job! seriously, though, i completely understand where you are coming from... i'm researching for the best responses to the "what about the lack of social skills?" i keep getting from "prominent" fellow yidden... [...]42_4Jul200521:43:53-0700ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM 4692 167 20_Re: was RASHI SCRIPT17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 07:48:19 -0400632_us-ascii >Interesting. John Holt wrote about experimenting with English
>script, believing it to be used because it was faster than print.
>He discovered that in fact, it was easier to write print. I myself
>have found this true - when I jot down notes to myself, it is always
>an adjusted (read: fast) print, when I want to write a letter or
>something longer, I use script for legibility purposes.
>
>Also, beautiful handwriting was a value in the earlier part of our
>country's history, where how it looked was almost more important
>than content, certainly more important than spelling.
>
[...]37_5Jul200507:48:19-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 4860 60 15_Re: what to say0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:27:37 EDT563_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/5/05 2:00:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

>
> Oh, i love this! Do you have a copyright on this response, or can i borrow
> and use it?

Be my guest!

Rena in Baltimore

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_5Jul200508:27:37EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 4921 85 10_Re: Rashi?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 08:53:50 EDT463_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/5/05 2:00:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Why and how did our
> letters change over time?
>
> Great question!!! You could look at old english handwriting too, written
> with quill pens and then look at modern handwriting, to see differences over
> time. Maybe that is part of the answer, that usnig different implements causes
> differences in handwriting over time.
> [...]36_5Jul200508:53:50EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 5007 24 14_technical help11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:31:39 -0400691_- Moriah,
I hope you are still at this email address. Can you remind me what i have to
do to get on NO MAIL with the Torch D list? Thanks in advance Rivky

_________________________________________________________________
On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]43_5Jul200510:31:39-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 5032 32 38_Re: But what's the point? RASHI SCRIPT14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:13:07 +0300360_ISO-8859-1 Russell--

"Rashi Script" wasn't used by Rashi at all. He wrote in whatever the
contemporary script was, and centuries later the printers used a new
typeface that was more compact so Rashi's words would fit on the page.
Subsequently, the script became known as "Rashi Script". Check out the
following link for lots more info: [...]45_5Jul200519:13:07+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 5065 25 16_Re: Rashi Script17_rjhendel@juno.com17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM28_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:31:22 GMT473_- AVIVA
The idea behind the speed is that THE LESS YOU LIFT YOUR PEN OFF THE
PAPER the FASTER YOU GO. So e.g. the Rashi Aleph (and most letters) can be written in one stroke(The print Aleph requires more--more parts).

However because you require less strokes there is a tendency to become sloppy so FOR SOME INDIVIDUALS the one-stop script may actually be slower. But if you train properly overall the one-stop script (english or rashi) should be faster. [...]36_5Jul200522:31:22GMTrjhendel@JUNO.COM 5091 112 25_Re: But what's the point?14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 02:16:09 +0300633_windows-1252 Rivky--

Go out and find yourself some of Dr. Boncheck's Rashi books. It's worth
finding out as much about Rashi as you can to be a solid guide for your son.

Rashi's stated purpose was to give the simple meaning of the text.
However, he included tons of Midrashic content found in the Gemara and
other sources of midrashim (and ended up telling his grandson, the
Rashbam, that he had strayed from his original intention, and apparently
expressed some regret over his inclusion of midrash. So when the Rashbam
wrote his own commentary, his mission was to fulfill his grandfather's
[...]45_6Jul200502:16:09+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 5204 45 17_Hebrew Vocab Help28_Jamie Rosenblum Lichtenstein18_jamie@ALUM.MIT.EDU30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 10:55:02 -0400549_us-ascii Bill,

The First Hebrew Primer introduces vocabulary by frequency it appears in
the chumash - I can't remember if they focus on just Torah or all of
TaNaKh. It's aimed at adults, but you could modify it to use their
vocabulary lists with kids. Also, they have many kids fairy tails written
in biblical Hebrew to reinforce the vocabulary and grammar they introduce
in each chapter - because the stories are familiar to kids and they use the
same vocabulary and grammar over and over, it's a great reinforcement. [...]39_5Jul200510:55:02-0400jamie@ALUM.MIT.EDU 5250 56 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:30:25 -0700652_iso-8859-1 Bill, this might be what you are looking for:

A Student's Vocabulary for Biblical Hebrew and
Aramaic,
by Zondervan. I haven't seen it, but checked out the
reviews on Amazon. Looks good. And cheap enough.

Not a Jewish source, but shouldn't make a difference -
the main point is that the words are organized by
frequency.

Harry

> From: Bill Bernstein
>
> Subject: Hebrew Vocab Help
>
> My son's progress with Chumash is heading into the
> frustrating
> category. The main problem is that he is missing
> words we have seen
> many times. Ok, [...]42_5Jul200516:30:25-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM 5307 42 36_Re: RASHI ANswer to Malkie and Rivky16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 20:22:26 -0400401_us-ascii Hi
Malkie CORRECTLY sites the Rashbam as being of the opinion that
Rashi strayed from his original path.

However I disagree with the Rashbaum. I believe all Rashis are pure
simple meaning of the text.

I started homeschooling in Rashi 10 years ago (to children aged 7-13).
I am completing a book on Rashi and his methods---all Rashis can simply
be explained. [...]38_5Jul200520:22:26-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 5350 81 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help9_Dr. Swift26_drswift@THERIGHTREMEDY.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:57:53 -0400566_iso-8859-1 Bill,

Try contacting Torah Umesorah Publications, 718-259-1223. They have a book
that contains 350 of the most common words in Chumash Bereishis. Perhaps
request their catalog. It's packed with workbooks and texts.

Best regards,
Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG]On Behalf
Of Harry Broome
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 7:30 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Hebrew Vocab Help

Bill, this might be what you are looking for: [...]47_5Jul200522:57:53-0400drswift@THERIGHTREMEDY.COM 5432 91 16_the hardest post13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 05:14:50 -0700540_iso-8859-1 This post is from Rivky:

Hello All,
I have typed many posts to this list, and this is by far the hardest one i
have ever written. I am going to go NO MAIL and theres little chance i will
come back. I may pop my head in from time to time to ask a
homeschooling/resource question, but basically i am leaving.
This was a very difficult decision to make. I have met many wonderful people
on this list that i feel very close to. I enjoy this list very much.
The reason i am leaving is because since i [...]43_6Jul200505:14:50-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 5524 23 9_thank you16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:52:03 -0400563_iso-8859-1 Just wanted to thank everyone for their helpful and insightful comments to
my post earlier this week. I really appreciate the time it took to write
such great answers!

Ellen in Boston
entering our sixth year of homeschooling

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]49_6Jul200509:52:03-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 5548 85 16_Re: Hebrew vocab13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:22:04 -0700394_iso-8859-1 ELIANA -

HI!!!!! I have been wondering how you are doing! I recently grilled Malaya when she visited Baltimore about you! (Did you get my regards?)

It's great to see you on Torch-D - I haven't seen you here since our discussion several years ago about the classical method. I hope we all get to hear more from you about all you have done; it would benefit us all. [...]43_6Jul200509:22:04-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 5634 44 17_Hebrew Vocabulary21_Eliana Scott-Thoennes14_eliana@EFN.ORG30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 08:16:44 -0700665_iso-8859-1 Bill,

If you are looking for a workbook, p'tach has a Chumash Vocabulary
workbook. Their website is: http://www.ptach.org/publications.php

Here is their description of the workbook:

Chumash Vocabulary Program Rabbi Yehoshua Eulda $7.00
This book is designed to develop familiarity and a working knowledge of
288 words commonly found in Chumash. The program can be used for class
exercises and/or individual work for enrichment purposes. The focus is on
developing a student's self-sufficiency in translating and understanding
new pesukim in Chumash. Ample activities are provided for maximum
reinforcement. [...]35_6Jul200508:16:44-0700eliana@EFN.ORG 5679 76 39_another comment about Williamsburg post13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:34:27 -0700531_iso-8859-1 Rena sent the following message to me a couple of days ago with the request that I post it to the list. I chose not to because I felt it would be making an issue of something that should be left alone. But Rena really deserves the chance to be sure her comments weren't understood in a way she didn't intend, and I apologize to the list for not sending this earlier. Rena made a good point that I moderated her message knowing her 'tone', which the rest of you may not be familiar with, and that's something I will [...]43_6Jul200509:34:27-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 5756 50 21_Re: Hebrew Vocab Help13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:24:51 -0700420_iso-8859-1 >>Does anyone know of a listing of Hebrew words by frequency in Chumash or
Tanach?<<

The Chumash Vocabulary Program: a compolete program for nealry 300 common words found in the Chumash by Rabbi Yehoshua Fulda. Published by P'tach, 4612 13th Avenue, Brooklyn, NY 11219 718-854-8600

Barb.

---------------------------------
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items. [...]40_6Jul200513:24:51-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 5807 43 21_Re: Hebrew Vocabulary17_No Name Available19_BurnesFamily@CS.COM28_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:07:09 EDT568_US-ASCII E-chinuch.org has tons of worksheets for hebrew vocabulary. Look under
contributors for Rabbi Yossi Brecher, Naomi Hominick, Rabbi Manfred Pick & Rabbi
Leibel Karmel.
- Tzirel

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG38_6Jul200514:07:09EDTBurnesFamily@CS.COM 5851 92 26_prayers needed immediately0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 22:26:00 EDT396_US-ASCII I got this from the DSM Kollel list, Des Moines Iowa. This is the father of
our TORCH-D list member, Sora Simpser.

The e-mail was dated 07/06/2005 at 4:04 pm.

Rena in Baltimore

>>Dear Friends,

I am writing to ask that you pray on behalf of my father -in-law Sandy
(Simcha) Parsons of Milwaukee, who is going through heart bypass surgery right now. [...]36_6Jul200522:26:00EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 5944 80 15_Re: Leshon Hara16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 22:24:43 -0400409_us-ascii I was very upset at Rivki's post (that is that she is leaving). However I
do believe
we can CLEARLY delineate the difference between Leshon Hara and
intelligent
discussion.

Rivki was very clear that NO INDIVIDUAL was slandered.

So we are talking about slandering groups. Obviously the laws of slander
do apply to non-people (e.g. the spys slandered God and Israel). [...]38_6Jul200522:24:43-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 6025 243 19_Re: getting nervous15_Wendy Bernstein28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 18:03:55 -0400573_iso-8859-1 Hi, Nicole.
Sorry I'm chiming in so late, but we just returned from our roadtrip, and I'm in active laundry avoidance mode.

I'm going to echo what everyone here told me when I wrote my very similar plea for help before Yocheved was born: Get help, relax, and do what you can do when you can do it! Your kids are so little...even if you did (gasp!) NOTHING at all homeschoolingwise, they'd learn in spite of your sad neglect. :) They'll be getting an education just living life in your family, celebrating Shabbos and the yomim tovim, going to the [...]49_7Jul200518:03:55-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 6269 52 17_request for ideas12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:53:17 -0400366_us-ascii Hi all,

I hope this is OK to ask here!

I am re-launching Natural Jewish Parenting magazine after a break in
publishing. I'm looking for submissions for a new section that will
offer ideas of things to do with kids, along various themes. The
first theme is "Games for a Long Shabbos Afternoon," and I need your
creative input. [...]43_7Jul200520:53:17-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 6322 85 21_Re: request for ideas17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:47:54 -0400546_us-ascii Best game for a long shabbos afternoon while parents rest is to have
the kids put together a play for you to watch when you get up !!
if your kids are up to a musical, that adds to the fun.

Some board games etc. that work for a range of ages ( say five and older)
Apples to Apples
Blokus
Faces
PDQ
Set
And the classic " Twenty Questions" ( you can make it Parsha twenty
questions if you wish).
Rap around the room: recite a line about the parsha, the next person
has to rhyme the couplet and [...]37_8Jul200514:47:54-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 6408 64 14_Homeschooling?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:33:56 EDT477_US-ASCII Hey guys. Guess what? We must really be reaching critical mass. There is an
article about homeschooling in of all places, the Yated, which is a very
conservative,very mainstream jewish periodical. This is in Rabbi Ginsberg's
column, which is the chinuch column.

And guess what? He wasn't pro homeschooling, but he was not strictly and
reflexively anti (which I guess can be construed as pro, given who he is and
where the article appeared). [...]37_10Jul200508:33:56EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 6473 42 25_Re: homeschooling article0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:34:58 EDT455_US-ASCII the web site: yated.com is currently under construction. :(

Rena

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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG37_10Jul200508:34:58EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 6516 61 18_Re: Homeschooling?14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:58:38 +0300558_ISO-8859-1 Did you see R'n Tzippora Heller's new book?

I read parts of it at my sil's house. She has a chapter on parenting
with a section on school. In a nutshell she says that school can't reach
the individual child, can't help the individual child, and shouldn't be
expected to, either. Essentially, she says that the only things school
is good for are "socialization", though she doesn't use exactly that
word (warns about bad hevra), possibly (her word) good role models in
the form of teachers, and imparting information. [...]46_10Jul200516:58:38+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 6578 32 21_Re: request for ideas17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:59:22 -0400467_- >
>Think of the things you do with your children to keep them productively
>occupied with relaxed learning or good clean fun, on Shabbos or anytime (as
>long as the activities would be permitted on Shabbos). These can be Jewish
>or general games, using homemade materials, storebought materials, no
>materials, whatever. I'm also looking for your favorite kinds of toys,
>board games, strategy games, etc. that can be played on Shabbos.
> [...]50_12Jul200507:59:22-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM 6611 58 21_Re: request for ideas11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:46:35 -0700328_iso-8859-1 Rachel,

I totally forgot about this game. We used to play where you could tell
someone the rhyme was an ink pink (one syllable), inky pinky (two syl.) or
inkity pinkity (3 syl). This is a good car game as well. Another game we
played was Torah charades, acting out the parah aduma, meraglim etc. [...]42_12Jul200512:46:35-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 6670 56 31_ot: converting cassettes to cds13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:43:51 -0700551_iso-8859-1 This is off topic but hopefully the answers will help others except for me!

I have been wanting to use the time driving with the kids more productively for a long time, and listen to books and stories while we travel, and finally today I had a cd player installed in my van. Circuit City was out of cassette players (they have become obsolete, apparently), and I got the cd player instead. But - the reason I wanted the cassette player is I have loads of Jewish music and Torah kids cassettes that I wanted to be able to listen [...]44_12Jul200518:43:51-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 6727 56 31_ot: converting cassettes to cds13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:43:54 -0700551_iso-8859-1 This is off topic but hopefully the answers will help others except for me!

I have been wanting to use the time driving with the kids more productively for a long time, and listen to books and stories while we travel, and finally today I had a cd player installed in my van. Circuit City was out of cassette players (they have become obsolete, apparently), and I got the cd player instead. But - the reason I wanted the cassette player is I have loads of Jewish music and Torah kids cassettes that I wanted to be able to listen [...]44_12Jul200518:43:54-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 6784 93 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds15_Wendy Bernstein28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:55:28 -0400335_iso-8859-1 Ok, here's the deal. If you go to Bearshare.com and download their software, you can download music and audiobooks for free. However, someone pointed out to me (duh!) that this may not be entirely, um...legal. So, until I can ask my LOR, I can't exactly recommend doing this. However, there were lots of good titles... [...]50_12Jul200522:55:28-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 6878 24 4_4-h?15_Wendy Bernstein28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:00:35 -0400551_iso-8859-1 Can anybody tell me if 4-h is a worthwhile activity to check out? Pros,
cons? Success stories? Horror stories?

Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam
(12/4/04!)

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]50_12Jul200523:00:35-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 6903 25 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 23:36:24 -0600537_US-ASCII I can't believe you brought this up! I need to do the same thing for a tape
of Jewish lullabies that my Bubby recorded over 20 years ago. I look
forward to the replies as well.

Thanks!

Shoshana Z.

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_12Jul200523:36:24-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 6929 30 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:26:24 -0400355_- haven't yet heard even once). Here's the question: how can I convert them
(only for my personal use, obviously) to cds?
>
>

According to my husband, you can wire your cassette player to your computer
and download the music as a sound file and (assuming you have a cd burner on
your computer) then burn the sound file as a cd. [...]50_13Jul200508:26:24-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM 6960 54 8_Re: 4-h?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:41:44 -0500376_us-ascii I'm sure individual programs must differ. But I will tell you that I
participated in 4-H as a young teenager and loved it. I learned a lot,
both in knowledge and skills, made friends and learned some teamwork. I
think it is a really wholesome program and very diverse--it covers arts
and crafts, sports, agriculture, and even science and technology. [...]40_13Jul200507:41:44-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 7015 74 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 05:51:08 -0700421_iso-8859-1 Hurray!!!! I will very, very gratefully and happily accept his offer of help. (And then try to tell the list how it works, coming from someone who has no clue until now - me!).

Thanks,

Avivah

Rachel Turniansky wrote:
haven't yet heard even once). Here's the question: how can I convert them
(only for my personal use, obviously) to cds?
>
> [...]44_13Jul200505:51:08-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 7090 86 8_Re: 4-h?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:11:58 -0700539_iso-8859-1 4H has been a very worthwhile activity in our home. In fact, this week is the Balto. county fair, which is strictly a 4H fair, and this is what will take up all time this week. Yesterday, my kids were there transporting their sheep (each girl leased one for the fair), then were there later in the day to bring in their entries, and then in the evening, they had an animal ethics meeting to attend since they are showing animals. Tomorrow they will be there to set up the club booth, they helped set up for the fair itself [...]44_13Jul200506:11:58-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 7177 74 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:56:11 -0400730_- you do have a cd burner on your computer, yes?

Rachel

>From: Avivah Werner
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] ot: converting cassettes to cds
>Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 05:51:08 -0700
>
>Hurray!!!! I will very, very gratefully and happily accept his offer of
>help. (And then try to tell the list how it works, coming from someone who
>has no clue until now - me!).
>
>Thanks,
>
>Avivah
>
>Rachel Turniansky wrote:
>haven't yet heard even once). Here's the question: how can I convert them
>(only for my personal use, obviously) to [...]50_13Jul200508:56:11-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM 7252 379 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:48:23 -0500344_us-ascii I think it would entirely depend on the copyright of the particular
product. For instance, if someone buys a normal music CD, they can't
give you a copy of it. There are various audio files that are in the
public domain, or that give you have permission to share them, but this
is the exception, rather than the rule. [...]40_13Jul200508:48:23-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 7632 41 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds20_Mrs. Susan Ballinger11_cb@IEEE.ORG31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:00:29 -0500429_US-ASCII Be very careful with those old cassettes. They age poorly and can be
fragile. Too sad to lose the content!

This device is to move sound into your computer from a cassette
player, etc. It
gets rave reviews in Mac circles, should work on PCs also, but I have
no personal experience to share and am also interested in reading how
the replies go. [...]33_13Jul200511:00:29-0500cb@IEEE.ORG 7674 56 21_Re: request for ideas0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 12:44:57 EDT517_US-ASCII We just stopped in a new local store which carries "educational" items and
toys. Picked up a game called Farkel, a dice/strategy game that my hubby and I
used to play way back when we were first married. I saw it, bought it, have
yet to play it, so I can't tell you that I remember how to play. But I do know
that we used to play it on Shabbos afternoons, and I bought it for the
nostalgia trip/sentimental value and cuz I thought that my kids will enjoy it. At
5.99 it was a bargain. [...]37_13Jul200512:44:57EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 7731 27 35_Re: ot: converting cassettes to cds14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:28:02 -0400395_- This link ought to do it:

http://www.polderbits.com/HowToConnect.htm

You also need a CD writer (CD -rw or +rw) which you can purchase separately
if you do not already have it on your computer.

Good Luck!

Moriah Chesler

PS My husband did this for some of our cassettes but the quality of the
recording is not the same as the original, but suffice. [...]39_13Jul200518:28:02-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 7759 75 20_Re: cassettes to CDs0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:02:05 EDT479_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/14/05 2:00:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> According to my husband, you can wire your cassette player to your computer
>
> and download the music as a sound file and (assuming you have a cd burner on
>
> your computer) then burn the sound file as a cd.
>
just asked my hubby abuot this as I was scrolling through messages, was going
to type a response but Rachel beat me to the punch. [...]37_14Jul200509:02:05EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 7835 221 44_converting cassettes to CD's - how to - long28_Jamie Rosenblum Lichtenstein18_jamie@ALUM.MIT.EDU31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 13:22:51 -0400444_us-ascii My husband has converted our tape collection to mp3 cd's. Depending on what
type of CD player you have in the car, you may or may not be able to play an
MP3 CD. The advantage to the mp3 CD's is you can fit a large number of tapes
(I think about 100, but I may be off) on a single CD-R. Many new car CD
players also player MP3 CD's now. The instructions for how to record a
standard CD are at the end of this email. [...]40_14Jul200513:22:51-0400jamie@ALUM.MIT.EDU 8057 69 22_how to - long--Thanks!15_Wendy Bernstein28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 18:02:27 -0400341_iso-8859-1 Thanks to everybody who responded to Aviva's query. I can't wait to try this when I have some spare time (um, in about 20 years, I guess...).

Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam (12/4/04!)

My husband has converted our tape collection to mp3 cd's. ..... [...]50_14Jul200518:02:27-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 8127 58 26_Re: How to - long- Thanks!13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 17:21:14 -0700323_iso-8859-1 You think in twenty years you will have time? No way! You will be busy with your grandchildren! I've come to realize that I will never have a house as clean as I like or the amount of time to do all the things I want to do.

And can you imagine what will be going on technologically in twenty years?! [...]44_14Jul200517:21:14-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 8186 40 24_OT: fwd: adoption needed12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 09:15:24 -0400588_us-ascii I am forwarding this -- I have no further information. If you are
interested in learning more, see message for contact info.

>Two Jewish children are available for immediate adoption:
>Two Jewish brothers ages 7 and a half and 9 and a half who are wardens
>of the state of New Jersey are in need of adoption, and preferably to
>the same home, but they can be adopted separately.
>
>The state has given the Jewish community one month as of June 22nd to
>place them in a Jewish home. If not, they will be placed into non-Jewish
>homes.
>
[...]44_15Jul200509:15:24-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 8227 21 26_Re: How to - long- Thanks!14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:56:09 -0400350_- >And can you imagine what will be going on technologically in twenty years?!
>

Hopefully, iy"H, in 20 years, we don't need these technology, because we'll
be learning Torah directly from HaShem, basking in His Light, and seeing the
world from one end to the other as clearly as Adam HaRishon once did. May
that day be soon. [...]39_15Jul200510:56:09-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 8249 27 26_Re: How to - long- Thanks!17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:56:33 -0400504_- I've come to realize that I will never have a house as clean as I like or
the amount of time to do all the things I want to do.
>

When I get frustrated about my messy house or lack of free time, I think of
how neat my apartment was before I was married and had kids and how much
empty (albeit busy) time I had. Even though I would LOVE a cleaner house,
deep down (some days deeper down than others:-)) I prefer it this way
because of the reasons for the messes!
Rachel [...]50_15Jul200515:56:33-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM 8277 50 26_Re: How to - long- Thanks!15_Wendy Bernstein28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 18:22:53 -0400641_iso-8859-1 You're right, Rachel! Thanks for the reminder (especially when it's erev
Shabbos, blah, blah, blah...)

Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam
(12/4/04!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rachel Turniansky"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] How to - long- Thanks!

> I've come to realize that I will never have a house as clean as I like or
> the amount of time to do all the things I want to do.
>>
>
> When I get frustrated about my messy [...]50_15Jul200518:22:53-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 8328 66 12_New Addition14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:23:48 -0500568_iso-8859-1 Shalom,

Just wanted to share the latest here. Our third son was born 7/8/05 and is doing very well. His name is Asher Shmuel born on Rosh Chodesh. Thanks for sharing my simcha!

Mandy
Tovias ( 4 ) Nathaniel ( 22 mo ) Asher ( born 7/8 )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/45_17Jul200515:23:48-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 8395 55 9_mazel tov13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:36:04 -0700349_iso-8859-1 Mazel tov, Mandy, on your newest family member! I hope that you are also doing well. May you have much nachas from all of your children.

Avivah

>> Just wanted to share the latest here. Our third son was born 7/8/05 and is doing very well. His name is Asher Shmuel born on Rosh Chodesh. Thanks for sharing my simcha! << [...]44_17Jul200516:36:04-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 8451 320 13_Re: mazel tov8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 18:39:51 -0500482_us-ascii Woohoo! Welcome Asher Shmuel!

Glad to know everyone is doing well.

Mazal tov,
Shoshana

>> Just wanted to share the latest here. Our third son was born 7/8/05
and is doing very well. His name is Asher Shmuel born on Rosh Chodesh.
Thanks for sharing my simcha! <<

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_____ [...]40_17Jul200518:39:51-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 8772 103 16_Re: New Addition16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:57:41 -0400471_us-ascii Mandy
MazelTov to you, your husband, and your other two children
As Asher grows up may he contribute many postings to Torch-d!
Russell;http://www.Rashiyomi.com/

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:23:48 -0500 Mandy Oeschger
writes:
Shalom,

Just wanted to share the latest here. Our third son was born 7/8/05
and is doing very well. His name is Asher Shmuel born on Rosh Chodesh.
Thanks for sharing my simcha! [...]39_17Jul200520:57:41-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 8876 122 16_Re: New Addition11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:59:15 -0700508_iso-8859-1 Mazal tov, Mandy, and welcome to all the new members.

Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG]On Behalf
Of Mandy Oeschger
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] New Addition

Shalom,

Just wanted to share the latest here. Our third son was born 7/8/05 and
is doing very well. His name is Asher Shmuel born on Rosh Chodesh. Thanks
for sharing my simcha! [...]42_17Jul200517:59:15-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 8999 25 16_Re: New Addition14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:50:28 -0400553_- BS"D

MAZEL TOV, MAZEL TOV TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.

MAY YOU BRING ASHER SHMUEL TO TORAH, CHUPAH AND MA'ASIM TOVIM.

ALSO WISHING YOU A SPEEDY & COMPLETE RECOVERY FROM YOUR BIRTH.

TAKE IT EASY.

MORIAH CHESLER

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_18Jul200511:50:28-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 9025 112 21_Re: request for ideas14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:37:15 +0200461_us-ascii Yael,
Although this first idea is not a game, it's a staple at our house. I
learned this while we were passing through Texas and stopped at a Chabad
for Shabbos for little kids.

Shabbos party:
You need some food item from each food group (i.e. bracha group, mesonot,
etz, adama, shehacol). The food gets passed out and eaten in order of
the way you'd say the blessings. The kids LOVED this simple party. They
still do. [...]39_19Jul200500:37:15+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 9138 22 21_Re: request for ideas12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:22:49 -0400501_us-ascii Thank you for these great ideas! I really appreciate it. May I use
your name & city?

Let me know --
Yael

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG44_18Jul200521:22:49-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 9161 23 16_Re: New Addition14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 10:34:36 +0300469_ISO-8859-1 Mazel Tov!

May you raise him to Torah, Huppah & Ma'asim Tovim!

Malkie

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG46_19Jul200510:34:36+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 9185 94 16_Re: New Addition12_ruthie thurm21_ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 05:37:08 -0700624_iso-8859-1 dear mandy... mazel tov! may you see much nachas from all your loved ones...

Susan Lapin wrote:Mazal tov, Mandy, and welcome to all the new members.

Susan
-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG]On Behalf Of Mandy Oeschger
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 1:24 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] New Addition

Shalom,

Just wanted to share the latest here. Our third son was born 7/8/05 and is doing very well. His name is Asher Shmuel born on Rosh Chodesh. Thanks for sharing my simcha! [...]43_19Jul200505:37:08-0700ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM 9280 126 20_Re: cassettes to CDs14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 03:34:34 +0200284_us-ascii Okay, I'm a low tech (and haven't had time to read the other posts that
are longer). Can you explain exactly what kind of wiring I need to do
this? :-) Is this something that I probably already have or do I need to
go to Radio Shack and get something for this? [...]39_19Jul200503:34:34+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 9407 31 25_for Denver home schoolers14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Thu, 21 Jul 2005 09:41:56 +0200462_us-ascii Hi, This weekend I'm selling stuff at a yard sale at the Reiss house and
there is a nice stack of homeschool type books and papers etc. I put
coloring pages and other things into the pile because I was hoping some
of you might come (early Friday am will be best). If any of you show up,
I'd be happy to just give most of the things to a good home. I have
loads of kids picture books too and would love for you to have first
pick. [...]39_21Jul200509:41:56+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 9439 76 22_In Denver next Shabbos10_Larry Beck35_Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:55:14 -0400390_us-ascii You may remember my posts from a year ago that my company might move me
to Denver in another year or two. Well I just found out am going to be
in Denver next week for meetings and would very much like to see the
community, especially over Shabbos. If anyone knows of any
accommodations I could arrange I would greatly appreciate if you could
email me off list. [...]57_22Jul200512:55:14-0400Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM 9516 192 34_OT: pikuach nefesh (saving a life)12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Sun, 24 Jul 2005 00:47:58 -0400357_us-ascii I don't know anything more about this than what is written here, and
I do not know the woman's current status or whether or not a liver
has already been found for her. (She needs a donor who is recently
deceased or who is on life support.) Contact info is at the very
bottom. If anyone can help, call immediately to find out more. [...]44_24Jul200500:47:58-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 9709 31 20_Re: cassettes to CDs17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:09:59 -0400333_- >
>Okay, I'm a low tech (and haven't had time to read the other posts that
>are longer). Can you explain exactly what kind of wiring I need to do
>this? :-) Is this something that I probably already have or do I need to
>go to Radio Shack and get something for this?
>
>Thanks,
>Laya
>slow but steady. [...]50_25Jul200508:09:59-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM 9741 58 20_Re: cassettes to CDs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Mon, 25 Jul 2005 09:07:14 -0500772_us-ascii My husband says this is it:

http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTL
G&product%5Fid=42-2387

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rachel Turniansky
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 7:10 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] cassettes to CDs

>
>Okay, I'm a low tech (and haven't had time to read the other posts that
>are longer). Can you explain exactly what kind of wiring I need to do
>this? :-) Is this something that I probably already have or do I need
to
>go to Radio Shack and get something for this?
>
>Thanks,
>Laya
>slow but steady. [...]40_25Jul200509:07:14-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 9800 77 4_camp13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:29:09 -0700275_iso-8859-1 A while ago, we started discussing the pros and cons of camp. I didn't weigh in because I was waiting to see how it would go this summer, as it's the first time my kids are going to camp (with the exception of my oldest going to sleep away camp last summer). [...]44_26Jul200507:29:09-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 9878 145 8_Re: camp14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:12:13 -0500555_ISO-8859-1 I dunno, Avivah. Your post had me shaking my head. I do not think it
is a school/homeschool issue as much as the society the campers grew up in.
My daughter got back from 3 weeks of sleep away camp near Jackson TN run
by Baron Hirsh Synagogue in Memphis. It was her second year going and
this year she was one of two girls from Nashville, many of the others
coming from Memphis. She loved it, had a great time, made friends,
formed some negative impressions of people she didnt like etc. I dont
think even if she were [...]49_26Jul200510:12:13-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 10024 143 8_Re: camp15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:27:14 -0700347_- Avivah,

I totally agree. We just finished two weeks of camp. It was better
socially for my daughter (which I expected) and negative for son. It is a
kiruv camp and we are dealing with public school boys here, so no surprise.
He really liked his counselors though and they raved about his behavior to
me (which was nice). [...]47_26Jul200508:27:14-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 10168 204 8_Re: camp13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 10:56:49 -0700543_iso-8859-1 Hmmm.....are you saying that kids living out of the frum community tend to be more friendly as a group? I have to think about that. I don't think I have enough experience as a parent in enough school communities to be able to tell. This reminds me very much of my experience when I moved to Monsey. I'm pretty sure this scenario isn't due to my kids being social misfits. If it was just one of them, I might wonder if somehow her personality just didn't fit so well somehow with the group, but my two girls are very different, [...]44_26Jul200510:56:49-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 10373 44 8_Re: camp14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:38:01 +0300587_ISO-8859-1 My son went to camp for a week and a half. His counselor handled two
difficult kids by yelling at them all day. The other children are used
to such things (I'm told that yelling is the primary means of
communication that schoolteachers employ here in Israel). My son was not
one of the children who got yelled at, but didn't particularly like
listening to it, anyway. I supported his decision to quit-- I don't like
listening to people yell, either.
During that week and a half, I gained a new appreciation for schooling
moms. My son went to camp [...]46_26Jul200523:38:01+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 10418 89 8_Re: camp13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:24:17 -0700473_iso-8859-1 Well, on the other side of things, I have been finding life much easier in some ways with only two or three kids at home all day. My house is in better shape, and I have time for so many little things that I usually don't do. And most of all, I feel more relaxed, not feeling 'I should be doing xx now' or going from child to child, doing so much in a day and still feeling inadequate. That mental stuff is very present usually and its absence is a relief. [...]44_26Jul200516:24:17-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 10508 98 8_Re: camp15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:45:08 -0700289_- Well, I have to admit that I got some good gardening time in when I wasn't
going on all the field trips with 52 campers. I actually went to camp 4 out
of the 10 days. What can I say? I am a control freak. The truth is, they
all really appreciated the help (and needed it). [...]47_26Jul200516:45:08-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 10607 84 8_Re: camp12_ruthie thurm21_ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:17:23 -0700630_iso-8859-1 dear malkie... it's good to know that i'm not the only one who understands the wonderful simplicity of reaquainting myself with my kids...

Malkie Swidler wrote:My son went to camp for a week and a half. His counselor handled two
difficult kids by yelling at them all day. The other children are used
to such things (I'm told that yelling is the primary means of
communication that schoolteachers employ here in Israel). My son was not
one of the children who got yelled at, but didn't particularly like
listening to it, anyway. I supported his decision to quit-- I [...]43_26Jul200521:17:23-0700ruthiethurm@YAHOO.COM 10692 117 15_Re: camp/school12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:36:57 -0400571_iso-8859-1 Since I've only started homeschooling this year (ds 14 1/2, dd 12 end of Aug) and we've sent the kids to camp before, we know both sides of the coin. My son doesn't like "regimentation" and although there have been positive aspects, overall he is not interested in and doesn't go to camp, but that's okay now since life is not different from one season to the next. My daughter enjoys camp - the trips, social aspect (although she has suffered in school from other kids, camp seems to be different -maybe she's having enough fun that difficult kids don't [...]46_27Jul200507:36:57-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 10810 73 8_Re: Camp15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 05:23:38 -0700565_iso-8859-1 Hi all,

I'm going to chime in here even though I'm not officially homeschooling (yet). My oldest dd is going to be 5 in October so here in NY she's going into the kindergarten (or in yeshiva parlance here, "Pre-1A" year). She spent last year in the 4 y.o. kindergarten at a local girls' yeshiva. She had a good year there, enjoyed herself, and had a wonderful Morah. Luckily at this particular school their physical facility circumstances mean the day is a bit shortened so it wasn't the typical 9-4 (!) schoolday they have even at this age. [...]40_27Jul200505:23:38-0700drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 10884 152 9_Re: camp?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:04:58 EDT463_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/27/05 1:58:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Btw, my son came home from camp and said the learning was much better
> >today. I asked him why, and here was his response: "I realized that no one
>
> >else understands anything that's going on either, and all you have to do is
>
> >say you don't want to read when the you are asked - that's what everyone
> >does."
> >
> [...]37_27Jul200510:04:58EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 11037 64 26_Proper Speaking (was Camp)14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 09:36:26 -0500582_ISO-8859-1 No comment about poor command of the English language. Plenty of people
in various groups struggle with that. You've heard of Eubonics, right?
(Making typical black style of talking into it's own dialect? I heard
part of a Eubonics bible translation read on the radio - verrrry
interesting.) And I won't even start with even educated people in the
South ('aint gonna do nuthin'' and 'hep ya out'). I think it's a social
thing; at least in the South, people know it's improper and in a job
situation would adjust to the proper way of speaking.>> [...]49_27Jul200509:36:26-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 11102 106 18_Re: Proper English13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:04:29 -0700595_iso-8859-1 ROTFLOL!! This was too funny, Bill. You got the shproch down pat.

I still think that many of these people will change how they speak according to who they are speaking to assuming they are familiar with both manners of speaking. In a family/friend setting, people are more relaxed and use different terminology than they would in a professional setting. If my husband was speaking to a yeshiva guy, he would throw in phrases he wouldn't usually use. Ditto with me, I would use certain phrases when speaking to women in the yeshivish world, it's like showing you're one of [...]44_27Jul200510:04:29-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 11209 83 9_Re: camp?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:16:24 -0700540_iso-8859-1 Okay, I'll me the mean person here, and say what's on my mind.

Let's not blame the rebbi so fast - why in the world would a parent send a child who is struggling academically to a camp where they have three hours of learning in the morning if there are other options?!? Maybe she's in an area where there are no other options, so she's stuck. But if not, most of the camps I know of for this age do not have more than 1.5 hours of learning, and that means locally and sleepaway. (Longer learning hours usually begins [...]44_27Jul200510:16:24-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 11293 82 30_Re: Proper Speaking (was Camp)14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:10:35 +0300633_ISO-8859-1 ROTFLMAO!!!

I'm having trouble typing, I'm laughing so hard!

That was mamesh gevaldik!

Malkeleh

Bill Bernstein wrote:
> No comment about poor command of the English language. Plenty of people
> in various groups struggle with that. You've heard of Eubonics, right?
> (Making typical black style of talking into it's own dialect? I heard
> part of a Eubonics bible translation read on the radio - verrrry
> interesting.) And I won't even start with even educated people in the
> South ('aint gonna do nuthin'' and 'hep ya out'). I think it's a social
> thing; at least [...]46_27Jul200522:10:35+0300swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 11376 305 8_Re: Camp15_Bara Loewenthal26_bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:00:01 -0600539_iso-8859-1 Hi, this is in response to Nicole. My son 6 went to kindergarten last year
and loved the first half very much. The second half was little less fun
because they started the academics quite intensively and that just brought
out all the issues that we are dealing with now (ADHD so I am told..) We
took him home at the end of the year as well as our 4 year old daughter. No
camp this summer, just mom his sister and a one year old baby. First two
weeks were little hard, with all the questions about what we [...]48_27Jul200510:00:01-0600bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM 11682 99 8_Re: Camp0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:49:39 EDT557_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/28/05 2:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Let's not blame the rebbi so fast - why in the world would a parent send a
> child who is struggling academically to a camp where they have three hours of
> learning in the morning if there are other options?!? Maybe she's in an
> area where there are no other options, so she's stuck. But if not, most of the
> camps I know of for this age do not have more than 1.5 hours of learning, and
> that means locally and sleepaway. [...]37_28Jul200508:49:39EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 11782 65 16_Re: camp, again!0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:50:38 EDT472_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/28/05 2:00:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Every camp is entitled to choose the kids who will be the best fit for them
> - it's not the same paradigm as school, where every child deserves a Jewish
> education.
>

yes, this is so, but deal with the parents on this, don't work it out with
the 10 y.o. kid!!! this should be done at an administrative level, not on the
kid's back. [...]37_28Jul200508:50:38EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 11848 401 8_Re: Camp8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:12:30 -0500343_us-ascii I think the reason for three hours of learning is that learning Torah is
seen as the ultimate purpose of existence and the best possible use of
time, no matter the age. Why should summer be any different, and why
should children lose out on that time, or (chas v'shalom) lose Torah
they have learned through neglect? [...]40_28Jul200509:12:30-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 12250 332 16_Re: camp, again!8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:17:39 -0500532_us-ascii Probably they are using that approach as a motivator, to spur the kid on
to work harder. This is a time-honored technique that doesn't work when
the kid is not within the framework, as it did when there was no
alternative.

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 7:51 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] camp, again! [...]40_28Jul200509:17:39-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 12583 531 31_FW: Should Children Fight Back?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:44:58 -0500639_us-ascii The Daily HALACHA wrote:
Subject: Should Children Fight Back?
From: "The Daily HALACHA"
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 03:36:31 +0200


Should Children Fight Back?
By Rabbi David Samson

Question: A father related to me that his son had been beaten up by a
bully in school. He told his son not to fight back, because it is
forbidden to hit a fellow Jew. When his son subsequently returned home
from school with a black eye, the father asked me if his stance of
non-violence was the proper educational response? [...]40_28Jul200509:44:58-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 13115 58 35_Re: FW: Should Children Fight Back?10_Larry Beck35_Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:41:29 -0400365_iso-8859-1 I am baffled how any educated Jew could think that you are not allowed to fight back against someone trying to hurt you, either Jew or Goy. One of the first things I was taught was the law of Pikuach Nefesh, self defense and the Rodaif. The Torah was given with the emphasis for Jews dealing with other Jews. Dealing with goyim is the unusual case. [...]57_28Jul200512:41:29-0400Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM 13174 48 35_Re: FW: Should Children Fight Back?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:26:48 -0500381_us-ascii Yes, it's a shame that an article has to be written saying it is
perfectly ok for a child to defend himself. But I am glad that it IS
being said.

So much damage has been done in the name of what we're not allowed to do
to other Jews--report them to the police for abuse, speak loshon hara
about them when we have been victims of their crimes, etc. [...]40_28Jul200515:26:48-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 13223 70 35_Re: FW: Should Children Fight Back?18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 17:44:20 -0400385_us-ascii bs'd
Shoshana,

"When you are kind to the cruel, you end up being cruel to the kind."

Was said about Shaul HaMelekh, who spared Agag even though
having been commanded to kill him. Shaul later went on to
killing one hundred prophets in Nob whom he accused of
rebellion for having assisted David with provisions.

kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman [...]41_28Jul200517:44:20-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 13294 26 43_Re: Mercy to wicked is cruetly to Righteous17_rjhendel@juno.com17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM29_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 02:13:14 GMT458_- It is an obscure citation. It is due to the RALBAG (Gersonidees)

In passing: I once heard Rabbi Solveitchick (The Rav) speak
about teaching today. He said the trend was never to tell
the student "you are wrong". He said it was rediculous.

It is the same thing as not hitting back. Of course YOU DO
have to worry about going overboard. But going to the opposite
extreme just does not help
Russell;http://www.Rashiyomi.com/ [...]37_29Jul200502:13:14GMTrjhendel@JUNO.COM 13321 53 43_Re: Mercy to wicked is cruetly to Righteous8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 04:51:18 -0500518_us-ascii I think the quote is very important to keep in mind. People think they
are being kind, when being lenient to the wicked only increases evil and
damage in the world.

Gut Shabbos.

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of rjhendel@juno.com
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 9:13 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Mercy to wicked is cruetly to Righteous [...]40_29Jul200504:51:18-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 13375 39 35_Re: FW: Should Children Fight Back?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 05:02:12 -0500630_us-ascii Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Benjamin H Dickman
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 4:44 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] FW: Should Children Fight Back?

bs'd
Shoshana,

"When you are kind to the cruel, you end up being cruel to the kind."

Was said about Shaul HaMelekh, who spared Agag even though
having been commanded to kill him. Shaul later went on to
killing one hundred prophets in Nob whom he accused of
rebellion for having assisted David with provisions. [...]40_29Jul200505:02:12-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 13415 64 9_re; camp?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:26:51 EDT448_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/29/05 1:59:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> learning Torah is
> seen as the ultimate purpose of existence and the best possible use of
> time, no matter the age.

Shoshana: you are right! to heck with Piaget and developmental
readiness. we should just push and push and push our kids, this is a guaranteed,
fool-proof method for getting the results we want. [...]37_29Jul200510:26:51EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 13480 343 13_Re: re; camp?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:55:59 -0500527_us-ascii Yeah, as my dad says, maybe we should just throw an encyclopedia in the
baby's crib and punish him till he learns it.

And where do you get off appealing to godless non-Jewish "scientists"
for child development information?

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 9:27 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] re; camp? [...]40_29Jul200509:55:59-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 13824 165 35_Re: FW: Should Children Fight Back?14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:16:52 -0400746_- BS"D

I LEARNED THIS A WHILE BACK ON CHINUCHATHOME
(HTTP://GROUPS.YAHOO.COM/GROUP/CHINUCHATHOME) ON THE HALACHOS OF FIGHTING
(AMONG SIBLINGS WHICH EXTENDS TO NON-SIBLINGS AS WELL), AND AM POSTING IT
HERE IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED..

GOOD SHABBOS,
MORIAH CHESLER

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I looked in to the matter of fighting (among siblings) a little bit
more and got a chance to uncover a treasury of Torah help from Miriam
Levi's book called "Effective Jewish Parenting" which has been sitting
quietly in my bookcase collecting dust for years. I'm posting here a
section from her book (it's quite long, but well worth it) and have
decided [...]39_29Jul200512:16:52-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 13990 104 55_A letter to the editor I wrote to Philadelphia Magazine0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:11:18 EDT460_US-ASCII This is a copy of a letter I wrote today to Philadelphia Magazine. I'm
curious what you all think of it:
>>>>>>

29 July 2005

Dear Editor, PHILADELPHIA Magazine:

Noel Weyrich seems to think ("Wanted: Grays and Gays", 8/2006) that Philly
should court only the (childless) senior and gay communities as homeowners, to
avoid increasing school taxes. What about homeschooling families and Orthodox
Jewish families? [...]41_29Jul200516:11:18EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 14095 30 50_Re: re; camp?Answers to Rena and other about Torah17_rjhendel@juno.com17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM29_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 23:39:59 GMT494_- THe statement
>>learning Torah is
>>seen as the ultimate purpose of existence and the best possible use >>of time, no matter the age.
is clearly wrong as stated by Rena.

But why? What is the answer? Here are two thoughts

A) Learning APPLIED Torah is the ultimate purpose.e.g. learning to give to charity and then giving or learning not to do bad business practices and then abstaining. Theoretical learning that does not lead to practice is not at as high a level [...]37_29Jul200523:39:59GMTrjhendel@JUNO.COM 14126 19 35_Re: FW: Should Children Fight Back?17_rjhendel@juno.com17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM29_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 23:42:17 GMT346_- BenZion
Interesting source (for KIND TO WICKED=CRUEL TO RIGHTEOUS). I have to check it out.I am certain that the CONCEPT was said about Shaul (when he had mercy on Agag). But I think the above formulation is due to the Ralbag. I will try and look it up some shabbos when I am bored and in a library and get back to everyone
Russell; [...]37_29Jul200523:42:17GMTrjhendel@JUNO.COM 14146 228 13_Re: re; camp?17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 19:50:13 -0400591_us-ascii At the risk of spoiling an incredibly funny interchange...
SOME KIDS LIKE TO LEARN. SOME KIDS EVEN LIKE LEARNING BETTER THAN SPORTS.

Any of you out there who were TERRIBLE at sports growing up?
Mortified at always the last one picked for a team ( praying that for
once you would be second to the last)? Bad at swimming, incompetent
at baseball? Worried about tripping over your own shoelaces during
games and being laughed at? There are lots of kids who are
miserable in a camp that does sports 10 hours a day all summer too
though other kids would [...]38_29Jul200519:50:13-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 14375 91 20_Re: camp/development0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 09:22:42 EDT626_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/30/05 1:57:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> And where do you get off appealing to godless non-Jewish "scientists"
> for child development information?
>

You are right, what is wrong with me!?!?!? I meant to say, I guess we are
doing away with the mishna's dictum: at 5 learn mikrah, at 10 learn mishna, at
15 learn talmud. Of course, the sages of the mishna pre-date Piaget and were
much smarter, more in tune with child development/milestones. :) But I suppose
this does not carry much weight in today's "academic" environment. [...]37_31Jul200509:22:42EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 14467 17 5_intro11_Leah Larson23_meadowqueen@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 10:49:31 -0400510_- Hi, I just joined this list. My name is Leah Larson and I'm 14 and from MA.
I'll be homeschooling next year for 9th grade.
Leah

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG45_31Jul200510:49:31-0400meadowqueen@COMCAST.NET 14485 722 13_Re: re; camp?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:04:34 -0500545_US-ASCII No argument from me, Chana. (Except about the whippings. Believe, when
I am baffled by students who are so NOT academically inclined, I
remember that they are athletes, and I'd hate to see myself trying to
keep up with THEM in that arena (so to speak).)

Shavua tov,
Shoshana

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Chana Silberstein
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 6:50 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] re; camp? [...]40_31Jul200517:04:34-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM