1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d June 2005 2 40 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 31 May 2005 18:27:26 -0400706_- >
>( The abortion/anti-abortion crowd knows this: that's why they call
>themselves pro-choice and pro-life).
>
>So, maybe those of us in frum establishment communities should give up the
>homeschooling word, with its ability to spark shock, criticism, tirades,
>and fainting, for some less frightening alternatives:
>
>Some possible exchanges:
>Where does your kid go to school?
>Actually, we are strong proponents of individualized learning. He's working
>with someone very loving who has spend a lot time getting to know his
>strengths and weaknesses, understanding our family values and interpersonal
>dynamic. We are really quite lucky to have this unique [...]44_31May200518:27:26-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 43 42 59_Re: Answer to Yael: Non -standard Curriculum--ENCOURAGEMENT16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Tue, 31 May 2005 19:30:45 -0400566_us-ascii Yael
Just a few words of encouragement. One difference between a SCHOOL vs
a HOMESCHOOLING is that the school is BOUND by its structure(Things
cant be changed because SO MANY people expect it). In a homeschooling
situation you can ADAPT IMMEDIATELY to a childs needs.

Same holds true to a small school setting like you are describing. You
will
find it very gratifying that you can meet each childs needs. The
technical
curriculum is not, in my opinion so important. It is more important to
focus
on each individual [...]39_31May200519:30:45-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 86 25 12_Hsing groups16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 31 May 2005 17:35:48 -0700621_us-ascii How do people form/join hsing groups if there aren't a significant
number of frum Jews in your city hsing (which is probably the case for a
lot of us)? Do you just join secular hsing groups, Jewish and/or
non-Jewish, for the chol part of learning? Thanks for your replies!
Brenda

>

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]43_31May200517:35:48-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 112 59 20_Re: yeshiva concerns12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 31 May 2005 20:41:46 -0400632_iso-8859-1 Oh my!

So what is it that's contributing to juvenile (toddler?) delinquency? Could
it be that parents are no longer available to their children - too many
hours in school, 2 parents working, not enough time or attention for the
kids, not knowing what they are doing? or maybe lack of proper nutrition -
overly processed foods devoid of nutrients and too much sugar- has also been
associated with unacceptable and/or criminal behavior. This deviant behavior
by children so young is really new to society and if it's getting into the
frum community my guess would be nutrition. Any takers? [...]46_31May200520:41:46-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 172 24 20_Re: yeshiva concerns12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 31 May 2005 20:46:02 -0400344_iso-8859-1 Pet peeve of mine - why do we give hechsherim on unhealthy food,
specifically soda, candy, and hydrogenated fats? This should be assur - the
dictums of Al tetain michshol lifnai ivair and kol yisrael arevim ze la'ze
should do it. I'd probably be asking too much to include overly processed
foods and unhealthy oils. [...]46_31May200520:46:02-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 197 72 28_off-topic - Alternative Fuel15_Merilyn Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Tue, 31 May 2005 20:58:48 -0400505_- I'm forwarding a posting that you might be interested in learning about -
alternative fuel, frisbee, bus. Bill might be interested too as the Big
Green Bus makes its way to Tennessee.

Moriah Chesler
============================================================================
Return-Path:
To: "Merilyn"
Subject: The Big Green Bus is traveling across the US!
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:22:51 -0400

Dear Merilyn, [...]39_31May200520:58:48-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 270 80 20_Re: yeshiva concerns15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 31 May 2005 19:08:05 -0700566_- When these things are reported to the police and the culprit is 7, there is
generally nothing at all done about it. We own a security guard company and
know the police very well. In our situation, the parents have made VERY big
efforts to help and handle this child. If this wasn't done, I would have
gone to social services. Every situation is different. In the case of a
sexual assault, I would not have handled it this way, but would have gone to
authorities (they take this more seriously). I also regard the latter as a
more heinous [...]47_31May200519:08:05-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 351 118 32_Re: off-topic - Alternative Fuel13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:11:42 -0700452_iso-8859-1 Thanks for this post, Moriah. I read about something similar a couple of years ago, and couldn't remember the website afterwards to read more. It was a converted school bus, and they refueled at fast food restuarants, using the discarded vegetable oils. Fascinating idea, hmm? No waste, free fuel for a huge vehicle travelling across the country - being that I drive a large van, I could appreciate what kind of money they were saving! [...]43_1Jun200504:11:42-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 470 82 16_Re: Hsing groups13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:34:47 -0700584_us-ascii How do you form a hsing group even if there are a significant number of frum Jews in your city? I started a Jewish group over a year ago here in Baltimore. I have come to accept that having more people actually means that there is much less done as a group; there are so many varying hsing philosophies and personalities. I have spoken with local families who homeschooled when there weren't so many other homeschoolers, with kids of similar ages, and they did everything together, even though their approaches were different. I think it was precisely because there was [...]43_1Jun200504:34:47-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 553 59 20_Re: yeshiva concerns15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:19:52 -0700354_iso-8859-1 Ah, but as a baal teshuva, if I was also cut off from
my beloved Coke, Ben & Jerry's and Hershey bars, I'm
not sure if I would be frum now. :) :) A girl can
only give up so much! (Though when we move back to a
community and take on cholov yisroel, I guess I'll be
saying goodbye to two of those three things ...
*sigh*) [...]44_1Jun200504:19:52-0700alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 613 87 20_Re: yeshiva concerns15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:35:20 -0700708_- Well, if I say more about that, you will surmise who this child is (even not
knowing me)!! Let's take a little poll. How many of the knife wielders are
from rabbinical families?

Michelle

>From: Caryn Lipson
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] yeshiva concerns
>Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 20:41:46 -0400
>
>Oh my!
>
>So what is it that's contributing to juvenile (toddler?) delinquency? Could
>it be that parents are no longer available to their children - too many
>hours in school, 2 parents working, not enough time or attention for the
>kids, not [...]46_1Jun200504:35:20-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 701 64 21_Re: What's in a name?15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:44:57 -0700738_- I actually do hand out a business card that says " homeschooler/balabusta"
and has a logo of a mom in bed with her kids reading:) People really get a
chuckle out of it.

Michelle

>From: Rivky Kahan
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name?
>Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 18:27:26 -0400
>
>>
>>( The abortion/anti-abortion crowd knows this: that's why they call
>>themselves pro-choice and pro-life).
>>
>>So, maybe those of us in frum establishment communities should give up the
>>homeschooling word, with its ability to spark shock, criticism, tirades,
>>and fainting, [...]46_1Jun200504:44:57-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 766 33 12_hsing groups15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:51:49 -0700532_- We do belong to a Christian group that doesn't require a statement of faith
for membership, only for leadership. We don't use it much. A few months
ago we heard a local tv weatherman give a great presentation on weather, and
I have gone to curriculum swaps. Generally, my children take classes that
interest them (like science discovery at the local university) and have had
great experiences. We have been involved in local library programs, with
the same teacher and many of the same kids for five years. [...]46_1Jun200504:51:49-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 800 87 20_Re: yeshiva concerns8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:43:55 -0500354_US-ASCII Plus, what's unhealthy today is healthy tomorrow and vice versa. There
are some principles we can follow, but even the most "junky" food can be
taken from time to time without destroying one's health. I've heard it
said that we are not required to follow the rabbis' advice on health,
since that is not their area of expertise. [...]39_1Jun200509:43:55-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 888 184 37_Re: What's in a name?: Reply to Rivky17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:56:37 -0400617_us-ascii >>
>>
>>
>>Where does your kid go to school?
>>Actually, we are strong proponents of individualized learning. He's
>>working with someone very loving who has spend a lot time getting
>>to know his strengths and weaknesses, understanding our family
>>values and interpersonal dynamic. We are really quite lucky to have
>>this unique opportunity. It's been enriching not just for him, but
>>for all the rest of us as well. ( And if you are asked for the name
>>of the tutor, you get to hand out your Mom&Dad business cards.)
>
>What does it say on the Mom&Dad business [...]37_1Jun200508:56:37-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 1073 25 21_Re: What's in a name?17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:01:51 -0400539_us-ascii >I actually do hand out a business card that says "
>homeschooler/balabusta" and has a logo of a mom in bed with her kids
>reading:) People really get a chuckle out of it.
>
>Michelle

ROTFL.
Chana

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]37_1Jun200509:01:51-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 1099 235 21_violence between kids11_Nechama Cox20_nechama@BOREALIS.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:27:56 -0400439_us-ascii I just saw this article, and given our recent discussion, I thought I
would pass it along.

Nechama

******

9-year-old accused of slaying playmate with steak knife in Brooklyn

By TOM HAYS
Associated Press Writer

May 31, 2005, 8:14 PM EDT

NEW YORK -- It began as child's play: a tug of war between two
young girls over a rubber ball at a Memorial Day gathering in
Brooklyn. [...]41_1Jun200509:27:56-0400nechama@BOREALIS.COM 1335 163 16_Re: Kindergarten11_Nechama Cox20_nechama@BOREALIS.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:33:02 -0400402_us-ascii Mandy

I am late chiming in here, but we are a Calvert family (second
generation actually, as my husband used Calvert when he was
homeschooled) -- and we love Calvert! The lesson plans are very well
done so that there is never a big step, and everything proceeds so
smoothly! By the end of the year you are amazed by how much they
learned just by going gently along. [...]41_1Jun200509:33:02-0400nechama@BOREALIS.COM 1499 59 20_Re: yeshiva concerns14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:44:55 -0500596_ISO-8859-1 Unfortuntely this hit a hot button with me.
A hechsher attests that the food is kosher. Nothing more. It is not
more healthful (no food is healthy--it's dead) nor is it cleaner. It is
not produced in accordance with ideals of ecology or organic farming or
fair trade(there are separate certifications for those). The hechsher
means that a Jew can eat the product without violating any laws of kashrus.
But once we go down the road of "this isnt kosher because its bad for
you" there is no end to it. Virtually everything is bad for some people
if consumed [...]48_1Jun200508:44:55-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1559 206 23_forewarned is forearmed11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:40:35 -0700690_iso-8859-1 >> When we looked at yeshivas, we asked about:
dorm counselors/supervision in the dorms.
drugs
drinking
smoking
policy regarding cars (we were concerned about reckless driving)
policy regarding computers. (we were concerned about surfing the net for
porn). <<<
I 've been following this discussion and want to add another warning I've
just recently become aware of through a heart-breaking story that was told
to me. Gambling addiction is another in the growing list of aberrations that
have been spreading through the frum community. I'm talking about the going
into debt, forging parents' signatures type of gambling. More than one
[...]41_1Jun200509:40:35-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 1766 76 20_Re: yeshiva concerns14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Tue, 31 May 2005 18:04:26 +0200635_us-ascii I started writing a long reply/rant... in the end I deleted it all but
still want to reply so I'll do it by saying

Amen!!!

Laya
Mom to Jeremiah, 11 and Avital, 9

On Mon, 30 May 2005 09:58:28 EDT RENALEVIN@AOL.COM writes:

The world is crazy and we need Moshiach.

Rena in Baltimore

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/39_31May200518:04:26+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 1843 32 37_Website with lots of curriculum ideas17_rjhendel@juno.com17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM28_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:10:32 GMT743_- Hi All
Found the following website today
http://www.etni.org.il/holidays/annual_calendar.htm

By clicking on any of the links you get CURRICULA for
each holiday.

You can also backtrack to
http://www.etni.org.il/holidays/

which has lots of good links

The home page
http://www.etni.org.il/
seems interesting but didn't have a chance to stake it out
Russell; http://www.RashiYOmi.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_1Jun200522:10:32GMTrjhendel@JUNO.COM 1876 95 63_Re: RESPONSE TO MALKIE: RE: Curricula and stages of development14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:58:50 +0200605_us-ascii Russell,

We are probably in agreement.

The question is, how do you appropriately expose a young child to
academics? I know an awful lot of four, five and six year olds. None are
ready for conventional sit down academics, including my six year old
nephew who can add two two digit numbers in his head way faster than his
older siblings, but has never seen a math worksheet. Lots of little kids
know really cool stuff. But that's not the same as sitting behind a desk
being forced to take in and regurgitate information they neither ready
for nor interested [...]45_2Jun200501:58:50+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 1972 47 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:36:59 -0400669_- Oh boy!!! Where'd ya get the logo from?? I'm not a balabusta. mmmmm. Have to
think of something else. Would love a card that i can hand people, but then
i'd like to walk away-not discuss it. Rivky

>From: Chana Silberstein
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name?
>Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:01:51 -0400
>
>>I actually do hand out a business card that says " homeschooler/balabusta"
>>and has a logo of a mom in bed with her kids reading:) People really get
>>a chuckle out of it.
>>
>>Michelle
>
>ROTFL.
[...]43_1Jun200519:36:59-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2020 109 37_Re: What's in a name?: Reply to Rivky11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:41:40 -0400507_- Chana, i think you're on to something. Not sure what i'd like on my
card-intimidating or what, but i like the idea of having a card to hand
people. Have to think about this. If you scroll down you will see the copy
of your suggested reply to the question where do your kids go to school. I
like this reply but there are a lot of words, and if i would try it, i would
feel like i am reciting the lines to a play, which i have memorized. Will
have to think of some way to shorten it. [...]43_1Jun200519:41:40-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2130 86 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:43:44 -0400707_- You know, after rereading this, i think the best part is people get a
chuckle out of it!! If we can get people to laugh, the conversation is on a
much friendlier note...

>From: Michelle Miller
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name?
>Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:44:57 -0700
>
>I actually do hand out a business card that says " homeschooler/balabusta"
>and has a logo of a mom in bed with her kids reading:) People really get a
>chuckle out of it.
>
>Michelle
>
>>From: Rivky Kahan
>>Reply-To: Torah-Centered [...]43_1Jun200519:43:44-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 2217 78 21_Re: What's in a name?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:00:06 -0500333_US-ASCII Haha-- many times in my life I've thought how nice it would be to have a
prepared set of cards so I could hand out the appropriate one to deal
with the repetitive questions and why I do this, that, or the other.

As for job title--how about "akeres habayis"? :-)

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner [...]39_1Jun200521:00:06-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 2296 101 27_Re: forewarned is forearmed15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:50:55 -0700733_- Speaking of gambling, I've noticed a bit of a trend with "casino night" bar
mitzvah parties. And these are observant families! What are they thinking?

Michelle

>From: Susan Lapin
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: [TORCH-D] forewarned is forearmed
>Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:40:35 -0700
>
>
>
> >> When we looked at yeshivas, we asked about:
> dorm counselors/supervision in the dorms.
> drugs
> drinking
> smoking
> policy regarding cars (we were concerned about reckless driving)
> policy regarding computers. (we were concerned about surfing the net for
>porn). <<<
> I 've [...]46_1Jun200518:50:55-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 2398 72 21_Re: What's in a name?15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 18:54:18 -0700648_- I got the logo from an old copy of Home Educator's Magazine. It caught my
eye and I kept it a long time before I used it on the card. Actually, I'm
not a balabusta either, but I'm hoping if I visualize it, it will
materialize:))

Michelle

>From: Rivky Kahan
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name?
>Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 19:36:59 -0400
>
>Oh boy!!! Where'd ya get the logo from?? I'm not a balabusta. mmmmm. Have
>to think of something else. Would love a card that i can hand people, [...]46_1Jun200518:54:18-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 2471 149 32_Re: off-topic - Alternative Fuel16_Eric & Lori Swim17_elswim@KANSAS.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:18:14 -0500677_us-ascii Shalom, all:

The website that you are interested in is:

http://www.biodieselamerica.org/biosite/index.php

It is packed with wonderful information ... that is practical and
user-friendly. I bought a copy of "From the the Fryer to the Fuel Tank"
for a farmer friend of ours who is in the process of converting his
diesel tractor into a bio-diesel tractor. Being in Kansas (surrounded
by corn, soybeans, and wheat) can make one "environmentally conscious."
Not to get political ... but, if President Bush REALLY wanted to win
the War on Terrorism, then he would have put forward an "aggressive"
energy policy focused on all [...]38_1Jun200522:18:14-0500elswim@KANSAS.NET 2621 31 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You16_Eric & Lori Swim17_elswim@KANSAS.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:39:06 -0500422_us-ascii Shalom, all:

Our eldest daughter is fast approaching the onset of menses, and we came
across the book, "The Wonder of Becoming You", offered by Artscroll. We
have material that covers this subject, but from a more
biological/medical viewpoint. This book seems to incorporate that
perspective but also the Torah perspective ... at least that is what the
Artscroll description indicates. [...]38_1Jun200522:39:06-0500elswim@KANSAS.NET 2653 45 16_Re: hsing groups16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:07:37 -0700828_ISO-8859-1 Yes, after posting, I realized that joining a religious Christian group
would probably be better value-wise than joining even a Jewish secular
one! :(
Thanks for replying,
Brenda

Michelle Miller wrote:

>
> Years ago we tried a secular group but left for the reasons you
> mentioned (far different values). I didn't want my kids bonding with
> these children (some of whom called their parents by their first names).
>
> Michelle
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
> FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The TORCH-D mailing list is [...]42_1Jun200521:07:37-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 2699 38 16_Re: Hsing groups16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:14:08 -0700680_us-ascii Thanks for your reply, Avivah.

Brenda Goldstein wrote:

> How do people form/join hsing groups if there aren't a significant
> number of frum Jews in your city hsing (which is probably the case for
> a lot of us)? Do you just join secular hsing groups, Jewish and/or
> non-Jewish, for the chol part of learning? Thanks for your replies!
> Brenda
>
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
> Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
> a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
> an online MA in Jewish Studies, [...]42_1Jun200521:14:08-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 2738 27 22_off-topic: handshaking6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:52:05 -0600496_US-ASCII Based on the business card talk we've been sharing, I've always thought it
would be nice for my husband to have a card to hand out as to why he does
not shake hands with women. He struggles greatly with this, especially
because he is a social worker and his job is, well, social! He may have a
big job interview coming up soon. Any thoughts on how to make this issue
easier for the shaker and the shakee? Write to me off list if that seems
more appropriate. Thanks all!41_1Jun200522:52:05-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 2766 218 27_Re: forewarned is forearmed12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:10:20 -0400559_iso-8859-1 Gambling addiction is another in the growing list of aberrations that have been spreading through the frum community.

I understand that in NY there are "clubs" known for being composed all of guys in black pants and white shirts where heavy gambling goes on. It strikes me as interesting that "kiddush clubs" are being banned in shuls now because of drunkenness among teens, while men going out to drink instead of hearing the haftorah wasn't seen as a problem in and of itself. Maybe shuls will start rethinking their "Monaco nights". [...]45_2Jun200507:10:20-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 2985 85 20_Re: yeshiva concerns12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 07:33:43 -0400520_iso-8859-1 Thanks to all who responded to my question about the Rabbi I work with.

I explained to him some of what we went through with DS in the schools and a little about how much better it is this way. I'm not sure how much he really digested since he seemed so anxious to tell me that all he wanted to do was have DS sit through a class and see for himself. Sometimes you make a connection with a teacher that makes all the difference and you have a good mashpia, etc. But since DS didn't want to that's [...]45_2Jun200507:33:43-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 3071 22 21_Re: What's in a name?12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:10:58 -0400534_iso-8859-1 > As for job title--how about "akeres habayis"? :-)

Sounds great but what do you give to people who aren't frum? Woman of Valor?

Caryn

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG45_2Jun200508:10:58-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 3094 36 28_Re: Benefit of homeschooling12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:24:30 -0400574_iso-8859-1 By the way, one thing I've noticed about homeschooling is that by and large
I've stopped nagging my children. I'm sure there are some kids who take full
responsibility for school on their own, but that wasn't my experience! I
don't have to get them out of bed and to school in the morning, constantly
feel that I have to remind (read nag) them about homework and tests, make
sure (nag) they get to bed on time so they can get up in the morning, etc.
And I don't have an administration making us responsible for all this, their
behavior, [...]45_2Jun200508:24:30-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 3131 85 23_Re: creative ambiguity?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:26:05 EDT537_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/1/05 1:56:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Most all creative endeavors are somewhat unpredictable. They often seem
> ambiguous, hit-or-miss, trial and error. And unless people have a high
> tolerance for ambiguity and get their security from integrity to principles and
> inner values, they find it unnerving and unpleasant to be involved in highly
> creative enterprises. Their need for structure, certainty, and predictability is
> too high."
> [...]36_2Jun200509:26:05EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 3217 64 38_Re: homeschooling assur al pi halacha?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:31:53 EDT615_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/1/05 1:56:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> The list of great rabbis and scholars taught by their fathers at home is
> quite long. Maybe they hadnt learned this halakha?
>

Or maybe it isn't "inside".

Rena in Baltimore

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_2Jun200509:31:53EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 3282 103 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:21:27 -0400497_- Ohhhh!!!! I get it!!! We should have a skirt with about 10 pockets. One
pocket we keep the cards that have the answers to the socialization
question. The other pocket has the cards that answers the question about how
do we have time to teacher our kids everything. The other pocket answers...
On the top of all the cards, it begins with "You have asked me about..." A
little explination can be given and we can use the back of the card as well
if we need more room. Rivky [...]43_2Jun200512:21:27-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 3386 138 21_Re: What's in a name?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:42:15 -0500536_US-ASCII Yeah, and we could start out by saying, "I get asked that question a
lot. So I've written up this information for those who are interested."

Or don't say anything and just shove it at them with an ugly grimace on
our face.

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 11:21 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name? [...]39_2Jun200513:42:15-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 3525 29 21_Re: What's in a name?17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:53:45 -0400467_us-ascii >Haha-- many times in my life I've thought how nice it would be to have a
>prepared set of cards so I could hand out the appropriate one to deal
>with the repetitive questions and why I do this, that, or the other.
>
>As for job title--how about "akeres habayis"? :-)
>
>Shoshana Sloman
>Torch-d listowner
>
>
Well, that certainly rates as an intimidating title.
Who can question the decisions of an akeres habayis? :-) [...]37_2Jun200514:53:45-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 3555 60 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:51:11 -0400574_- I can't say enough about that book The Wonder of Becoming You! It explains
what happens to a girl's body and why. It has wonderful hashkafos. Example:
It talks about how some kids laugh about these things etc "...As you get
older, you will find these things less and less amusing." Not an exact quote
i'm sure, but that was the jist of it. I think it was in that book where i
read the comment about some secular material "...where they treat the
holiest of subjects with disrespect..." again, not an exact quote. It is
written in clear language, [...]43_2Jun200515:51:11-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 3616 43 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:56:48 -0400823_- I guess i'm demonstrating my utter ignorance, but what does Akeres mean?

>From: Caryn Lipson
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name?
>Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:10:58 -0400
>
> > As for job title--how about "akeres habayis"? :-)
>
>Sounds great but what do you give to people who aren't frum? Woman of
>Valor?
>
>Caryn
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
>Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
>a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
>an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
>
>To unsubscribe email: [...]43_2Jun200515:56:48-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 3660 80 28_Re: Benefit of homeschooling11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:09:44 -0400521_- I have not made up my mind about how i feel about the going to bed-getting
up on time issue. Yes, it is nice not to have the pressure about catching a
school bus (carpool), as it is nice to not have to be so strict about
bedtime. Homeschooling is a much more relaxed way of livigng in many ways, i
think. But, OTOH (i think that stands for On The Other Hand-i HOPE) i'm not
sure i like the crazy hour that my youngest gets up at, and then asks Tatty
how much he's "still alowed to daven"-Also my [...]43_2Jun200516:09:44-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 3741 181 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:21:27 -0400587_- Maybe you'll all think i'm crazy, but i'm actually considering something
like this, minus the ugly grimmace of course :-) The thing is, i cant
picture having a zillion pockets one for each question. So i would take out
my stack of cards, and sort through them while the person is standing there,
while saying "I get asked a number of questions about homeschooling-many of
them repeat themselves-one minute-let me just find the right card here..."
I'm sort of kidding about the sorting. I dont know how i would do it exactly
but i really like the card idea. I [...]43_2Jun200516:21:27-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 3923 233 21_Re: What's in a name?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:40:53 -0500543_US-ASCII Have a pocket card file, like they use for coupons. Or have them
numbered, or color-coded. That might be best ("You've drawn to BLUE
card!")

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner
and housewife

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 3:21 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name?

Maybe you'll all think i'm crazy, but i'm actually considering something [...]39_2Jun200515:40:53-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 4157 63 19_record keeping idea15_Wendy Bernstein28_wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:39:34 -0400358_iso-8859-1 Our library prints out a list of the books we borrow on an adding-machine type strip. I've taken to saving these to help me remember who read what, and when. When you're as organizationally-challenged as I am, every little bit helps!
Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam (12/4/04!) [...]49_2Jun200516:39:34-0400wendybernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 4221 40 12_Introduction14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:48:15 -0700585_iso-8859-1 I've been meaning to introduce myself (and family) for
quite a while (since before pesach) but you know how
life gets in the way of good intentions . . .

We live in Providence, RI. We are homeschooling two
sons, Yoni (Yonah) is 6 1/2 years old and Didi
(Yedidya) is turning 5 next month. I am an applied
mathematician and my husband is a biochemist. We both
feel that the negatives of school outweighed the
positives for us, and want to do things differently
for our kids. We did love college and graduate
school, and aim to raise our [...]44_2Jun200513:48:15-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 4262 116 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM28_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:30:03 EDT606_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/2/2005 4:37:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

I can't say enough about that book The Wonder of Becoming You! It explains
what happens to a girl's body and why. It has wonderful hashkafos. Example:
It talks about how some kids laugh about these things etc "...As you get
older, you will find these things less and less amusing." Not an exact quote
i'm sure, but that was the jist of it. I think it was in that book where i
read the comment about some secular material "...where they treat the
holiest of subjects with [...]40_2Jun200517:30:03EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 4379 100 26_Parental benefits of HSing0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM28_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:34:25 EDT574_US-ASCII Today, while teaching my daughter Shaina (5th grade), I came to have
flashbacks on some negative experiences I had in 5th grade. It seems HSing is not
only benefiting my kids, but me as well.

In 5th grade I began having bully problems....a group of girls started
targeting me and beating me up after school because a) I was a "beanpole"
(skinny), and Jewish. Math was my last class, and I usually spent much of it worrying
if I'd be able to make it home before "the gang" found me and broke my
glasses (again), beat me up (again), etc [...]40_2Jun200517:34:25EDTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 4480 30 21_Re: What's in a name?10_Larry Beck35_Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:50:23 -0400676_us-ascii I am baffled! If your husband is the "Bal HaBies" why aren't you the
"balabusta"?

Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Michelle Miller

... Actually, I'm not a balabusta either, but I'm hoping if I visualize
it, it will materialize:))

Michelle

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]56_2Jun200517:50:23-0400Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM 4511 254 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:38:37 -0400690_- oh boy-i feel really ignorant today. First, i didnt know what Akeres is. Now
i dont know what a "pocket card file" is. Is it something that fits in your
pocket? Well, i gotta go shopping for something with a pocket. rivky

>From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] What's in a name?
>Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 15:40:53 -0500
>
>Have a pocket card file, like they use for coupons. Or have them
>numbered, or color-coded. That might be best ("You've drawn to BLUE
>card!")
>
>Shoshana Sloman
>Torch-d listowner
>and housewife
>
[...]43_2Jun200518:38:37-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 4766 68 28_Re: Benefit of homeschooling12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 18:59:16 -0400541_us-ascii I don't see why homeschooling means that parents can't insist that
kids get to bed at a decent hour so they can start the day bright and
early. I think it's healthy to teach kids that sleep is important,
and getting up early is important too (most days), even if there's no
school.

Of course, there is definitely more flexibility with homeschooling,
so that exceptions can easily be made when necessary (or just for
fun). There's way less stress than there is with
get-up-and-go-to-school mornings. [...]43_2Jun200518:59:16-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 4835 42 26_Re: off-topic: handshaking14_Devora Farrell22_dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:09:42 -0400566_iso-8859-1 > Based on the business card talk we've been sharing, I've always thought it
> would be nice for my husband to have a card to hand out as to why he does
> not shake hands with women. (snip)
> Shoshana Zohari
> najova@earthlink.net

When I used to work for a non-frum Jewish charitable organization, my boss
used to bring male visitors to my office to introduce them, knowing that I
didn't shake hands with men, just for a laugh. I got pretty good at calling
his bluff. Normally, I'd make sure to have my hands full so that [...]43_2Jun200520:09:42-0400dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM 4878 49 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:02:38 -0700522_iso-8859-1 I gave this book to each of my girls. I think it is very well done, and do
recommend it. It largely focuses on the physical aspects, to the best of my
memory, but certainly gives an opening for you to raise more topics
yourself.

Susan

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG]On Behalf
Of Eric & Lori Swim
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 8:39 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] The Wonder of Becoming You [...]41_2Jun200519:02:38-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 4928 77 16_Re: hsing groups11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:07:27 -0700579_iso-8859-1 Michelle,

We belonged to a Christian co-op for four years, joining after they changed
their policy of members needing to sign a statement of faith. They went out
of their way to be thoughtful to my kids, with things such as giving them
Chanukah cards when the other kids all got Christmas greetings, and asking
me what candy they could get for the end of year party. The only caveat I
would say is that we didn't join till I felt my kids were old enough to be
fully aware of even non-overt Christian content, and we had discussed the
[...]41_2Jun200519:07:27-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 5006 270 27_Re: forewarned is forearmed11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:30:18 -0700594_iso-8859-1 Caryn,
I agree with you totally on this. I do think a lot of these problems are a
vicious cycle where the learning day is made longer so the boys won't get
into trouble, and instead that leads to the trouble, because they are
busting out at first chance instead of having healthy outlets. And a desire
to protect from everything leads to being susceptible to everything.
>> Maybe this is naive on my part to say, since it obviously doesn't
answer all questions, but... In these times that we are living in, I think
that when yeshivas become isolationist [...]41_2Jun200519:30:18-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 5277 330 14_Re: older kids11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 19:37:19 -0700598_iso-8859-1 Avivah,

Have a great camping trip! Where are you going?

Would you be surprised to here that each of my kids transitioned to more
academics and being more responsible for their learning in totally
different ways? Is Elazar happy with the way things are, or does he feel
that he wants a more "mature" level of learning? Will be heading towards
bar mitzvah age as well? Do you have specific concerns, like learning to
write a research paper and handling essays, or is it more of a vague feeling
that since he's getting older, things should be changing? [...]41_2Jun200519:37:19-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 5608 37 24_Re: Casino Night parties16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 23:00:48 -0400379_us-ascii I am a member for life of AMIT.
We recently had a CASINO night in Silver Spring.
Everyone who went contributed at least $75.
We played gambling games (and ate)
We could purchase more tickets.
We played in chips.
OUr wins in the end were converted to a raffle.
The proceeds went to charity

Perfectly legal (AND meritorious) halachically. [...]38_2Jun200523:00:48-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 5646 63 28_Question about e-chinuch.org0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:08:24 EDT380_US-ASCII Did anyone else here get the survey that e-chinuch.org sent out to users?

Truth be told, I don't surf over there very often. I was surprised to find
out that they had a category called parent/homeschooler and absolutely STUNNED
to find out that they have a homeschool message board.

Anybody here go to that site often? anyone here on that board? [...]36_3Jun200500:08:24EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 5710 26 19_Scott Forsman math?15_Bara Loewenthal26_bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:14:54 -0600445_iso-8859-1 Hi,
I just looked through the Rainbow resource catalog (it only took me a whole
week). I found out that they now carry a Scott Forsman Exploring Math
curriculum. I know that a local Day school is using it as their main math
programm. I am not sure if it is a bad thing. Does anybody know a bit more
about it. I was pretty sure I was going to get Singapore math, but I would
like to know more.
Thanks
Bara [...]47_2Jun200522:14:54-0600bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM 5737 109 16_Re: hsing groups15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:32:27 -0700606_- Susan,

Yes this group does start things with a prayer (to you know who) and we just
are quiet, respectful, and know we are visiting. My kids are pretty
comfortable with Christians as one of my closest friends is a very religious
Christian Zionist and her hschooled kids are wonderful for mine to be
around. We really don't participate much....only certain field trips. It
has crossed my mind that my son should maybe wear a baseball cap, instead of
kippah on these rare events. However, he doesn't, and I realize that if I
have these inclinations, we shouldn't be there. [...]46_2Jun200522:32:27-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 5847 70 14_Re: epidemics?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:50:20 EDT557_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/3/05 1:57:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> In these times that we are living in, I think that =
> when yeshivas become isolationist and offer no other outlets for =
> children other than late yeshiva nights and learning and more learning, =
> these things may be more likely to occur. Not giving children =
> opportunity for healthy outlets and lack of involvement with parents and =
> family because the yeshivas take over their lives, is a recipe for =
> disaster. [...]36_3Jun200509:50:20EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 5918 86 13_Re Schedules?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:56:26 EDT576_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/3/05 1:57:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> It's funny how the
> pressure goes up once high school credits enter into the picture of
> homeschooling.

OK, so your highschooler gets up late and you are worried about her having
enough time to get the work done to get credits. BUT....what time does she go
to sleep? My son would get a lot done late at night, when his siblings were in
bed and he had no one fighting him for the computer. He also would go to his
room, lie on his bed [...]36_3Jun200509:56:26EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 6005 60 21_Re: What's in a name?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 11:45:17 -0400560_- I know this question wasnt necesarily addressed to me, but" i'd like to
stick in my 2 cents since i was the one who originally commented that i am
not a balabusta.
To me the term balabusta means someone who is "domestic"- in other words a
woman who keeps her house nice and neat and clean-who cooks wonderful meals,
is a wonderful baker, sews beautiful clothes for the kids etc. I dont fit
into this catagory. I think i'm a pretty good cook, if i may say so myself,
but that's about it. Forget about my being Martha Stewart, forget [...]43_3Jun200511:45:17-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 6066 35 24_Last approval for June 313_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:18:19 -0700493_iso-8859-1 Ok, folks, it is 1:20 EDT here and I just approved a
bunch of messages. I am not getting back on line
today. Aviva mentioned she doesn't think she'll be on
today, so if there are no more messages after this
last group. Don't Panic!

Have a great shabbat, everyone.

Barbara

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html [...]40_3Jun200510:18:19-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 6102 58 28_Re: Last approval for June 38_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:55:51 -0500659_us-ascii Have we gotten that high-traffic that a break from eruv Shabbos to
motzei Shabbos would cause panic??

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Barbara Mazor
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 12:18 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] Last approval for June 3

Ok, folks, it is 1:20 EDT here and I just approved a
bunch of messages. I am not getting back on line
today. Aviva mentioned she doesn't think she'll be on
today, so if there are no more messages after this
last group. Don't Panic! [...]39_3Jun200512:55:51-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 6161 134 28_Re: Benefit of homeschooling11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:24:33 -0400533_- Yael, :-)
I can understand how it may be "hard to see" why homeschooling means parents
can't insist that kids go to bed at a "decent hour" so that they can start
their day bright and early.
I dont say it means that they "cant" insist, but if there is no school,
there is no pressure from the outside that they "have" to insist on this.
When there is a school bus/carpool to catch, we are put in a position where
we "have" to insist on a certain bedtime, and we "have" to wake our kids up
on time, even [...]43_3Jun200513:24:33-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 6296 56 28_Re: Last approval for June 311_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:29:43 -0400673_- What do you mean???? I thought you moderators all cook and clean very late
thursday night, so you can do nothing all Friday but sit on the computer
screening TorchD messages! Humph!!!!! :-) Rivky

>From: Barbara Mazor
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: [TORCH-D] Last approval for June 3
>Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 10:18:19 -0700
>
>Ok, folks, it is 1:20 EDT here and I just approved a
>bunch of messages. I am not getting back on line
>today. Aviva mentioned she doesn't think she'll be on
>today, so if there are no more messages after this
[...]43_3Jun200513:29:43-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 6353 76 17_Re: Re Schedules?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:34:33 -0400533_- Rena, your idea is something to consider. Like i said, i have not made up my
mind on this subject. One factor that i'd have to consider is that if they
(i have 2 teenage girls-but with one of them the story about her credits is
a little more complicated-no time or patience to explain here) would earn
their credits at night, i would not be able to be awake and involved with
what they are doing. While they both have a large degree of ability to read
and learn on their own, i think they still do need some [...]43_3Jun200513:34:33-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 6430 69 17_Re: Re Schedules?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:35:53 -0400661_- BTW Rena, if you write a post in which you are addressing me, i suggest you
put my name in the subject line. I do not read every message- i just
happened to read this one. Good Shabbos Rivky

>From: RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: [TORCH-D] Re Schedules?
>Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 09:56:26 EDT
>
>In a message dated 6/3/05 1:57:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:
>
>
> > It's funny how the
> > pressure goes up once high school credits enter into the picture of
> > homeschooling.
>
>OK, so your [...]43_3Jun200513:35:53-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 6500 68 32_Re: Question about e-chinuch.org6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 12:25:46 -0600367_US-ASCII on 6/2/05 10:08 PM, RENALEVIN@AOL.COM at RENALEVIN@AOL.COM wrote:

Did anyone else here get the survey that e-chinuch.org sent out to users?

I also got the survey, but have not had time to fill it out yet. I also
think it's amazing and a great thing that they take notice of us.
Check it out and register those who've never tried it. [...]41_3Jun200512:25:46-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 6569 22 17_communities again6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 13:01:42 -0600131_US-ASCII Can anyone write to me off-list about Chabad in Baltimore? I'd like an
insider's take before we look seriously. Thanks!41_3Jun200513:01:42-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 6592 97 28_Re: Last approval for June 313_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 15:39:30 -0700348_iso-8859-1 Tra lah! I'm back from our trip, just a couple of hours before Shabbos but yes, here I am back to my moderating! So don't panic, those of you who can't bear half a day without messages, I have come to rescue your erev Shabbos!

Avivah - who had a fantastic time and recommends family camping to all as a great family vacation [...]43_3Jun200515:39:30-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 6690 107 32_Re: Question about e-chinuch.org17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 18:51:30 -0400609_us-ascii Last time I looked, the homeschool board was quite inactive. But
don't take my word for it: check it out for yourself.
CS

>Did anyone else here get the survey that e-chinuch.org sent out to users?
>
>Truth be told, I don't surf over there very often. I was surprised
>to find out that they had a category called parent/homeschooler and
>absolutely STUNNED to find out that they have a homeschool message
>board.
>
>Anybody here go to that site often? anyone here on that board?
>
>just wondering....
>
>if anyone wants a copy of the survey, post me [...]37_3Jun200518:51:30-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 6798 49 51_Re: The sleep/wake cycle of teenagers/homeschoolers17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Fri, 3 Jun 2005 19:06:12 -0400620_us-ascii Teenager may or may not have a biological clock that makes them want
to go to sleep late/get up early.
But what difference does this make?

Babies have a biological predisposition to like sweets and fats.
This does not stop us ( many of us) from trying to modify dietary
predispositions.

All I know that the difficulty of getting up early is not new to our
generation...but previous generations saw sleeping away daylight
hours as an immoral decision-- and the reluctance to get up in the
morning as a tendency worth fighting to overcome. ( Hey, even Ben
Franklin says [...]37_3Jun200519:06:12-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 6848 781 18_homeschool funnies0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:28:39 EDT617_US-ASCII Folks, got this from another list that I am on, copied and pasted here,
because I thought that this was relevant, given our recent discussions about
"helpful" comments that others have made about homeschooling and also the question
of how to identify ourselves/what to put on our business cards.

Enjoy!

Rena in Baltimore

P.S. since this from another list, there is some reference to the x-tian
lifestyle/beliefs of some homeschoolers. Do not take offense, but take it in the
spirit in which I have passed it along, enlightening, hysterically and
pathetically sad! [...]36_4Jun200522:28:39EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 7630 91 14_Re: older kids13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:47:49 -0700558_iso-8859-1 We went to Greenbrier State Park and had a fantastic time - swimming at the beach, fishing, hiking, and just spending lots of time together, in the forest where you can actually hear yourself think. Very good for the soul!

No, it doesn't surprise me that each of your kids had a different path. Would you care to share an example or two of how it played out over time with two very different learners? Elazar is happy with how things are going, but has said he would like to spend more time on his Judaic learning and general studies. [...]43_4Jun200520:47:49-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 7722 131 14_Re: older kids15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sat, 4 Jun 2005 21:54:33 -0700692_- Aviva,

Are you going to order all the readers with the Sonlight core, or get them
at the library? I'm wondering if anyone used the library for it, or was
that just too much trouble.

Michelle

>From: Avivah Werner
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] older kids
>Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 20:47:49 -0700
>
>We went to Greenbrier State Park and had a fantastic time - swimming at the
>beach, fishing, hiking, and just spending lots of time together, in the
>forest where you can actually hear yourself think. Very good for the soul!
>
[...]46_4Jun200521:54:33-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 7854 34 7_bedtime15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:04:16 -0700510_- After many years of trying to be a "model" mom and getting the kids (now 7
and 10) to bed by 8pm or so, I have basically resigned myself to the fact
that this doesn't work too well for us. My husband doesn't get home from
work until after 6pm, and after dinner they would have to start getting
ready for bed. So we have let them stay up until around 10 and they get up
around 7:30-8:00. My husband gets up at 6am and is gone before they wake
up. I often wonder if I am setting up very [...]46_4Jun200522:04:16-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 7889 40 30_Little kids with big questions12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 00:53:51 -0700563_iso-8859-1 My oldest (almost 5) is starting to grapple with
questions about the nature of Hashem (e.g., "Can He
come to my birthday party?", "But what does He LOOK
like???") and and questions about life/death (mostly
concern that Haman, Pharoah, etc. cannot hurt us now.
"Why not? Where are they? Are they 'dead'? Why?").

I think we're doing ok with the answers so far, but I
sense more probing questions coming. Does anyone know
of a book or other source that might have some good
ideas, or do you yourselves have any advice? [...]42_5Jun200500:53:51-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM 7930 181 14_Re: older kids12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 07:08:29 -0400549_iso-8859-1 Regarding the going to bed late and sleeping late - teenagers biological clocks are different and when he was in school this was an issue because he would go to sleep late and I'd worry about him getting up in the morning especially since he wasn't too keen on school anyway. Although you may be able to force an older child into bed - you can't force them to fall asleep. Right now my son is not davening. I am sure that over time that will change. I have seen definite glimmers of hope. Initially, when he started homeschooling we [...]45_5Jun200507:08:29-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 8112 76 14_Re: older kids12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 07:20:57 -0400354_iso-8859-1 It would be nice if once we decided on a homeschooling approach, the same thing would be effective for every child in every stage, but that hasn't been my reality (and I doubt it is the reality for the vast majority of parents).

If the same approach worked for each child, we would be sending them to school and not homeschooling! [...]45_5Jun200507:20:57-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 8189 53 22_Re: homeschool funnies15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 07:00:19 -0700575_iso-8859-1 Rena -

Thank you so much for posting this. It was absolutely
hysterical, and as you said, SAD!!!! Keep it comin'!

Alison

--- RENALEVIN@AOL.COM wrote:

> Folks, got this from another list that I am on,
> copied and pasted here,
> because I thought that this was relevant, given our
> recent discussions about
> "helpful" comments that others have made about
> homeschooling and also the question
> of how to identify ourselves/what to put on our
> business cards.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Rena in Baltimore [...]44_5Jun200507:00:19-0700alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 8243 232 14_Re: older kids11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 12:57:42 -0700577_iso-8859-1 >>> No, it doesn't surprise me that each of your kids had a different
path. Would you care to share an example or two of how it played out over
time with two very different learners? Elazar is happy with how things are
going, but has said he would like to spend more time on his Judaic learning
and general studies. I think he would feel more competent with increased
focused learning in some subjects. He will be turning twelve on July 4,
which means that bar mitzva lessons, more regular shul attendance, and a
more time spent on Judaics [...]41_5Jun200512:57:42-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 8476 122 32_Re: Question about e-chinuch.org11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 13:01:16 -0700490_iso-8859-1 Rena,
I got the survey but hadn't been on in so long that I couldn't fill it out.
I'll have to look again. Sounds like they have expanded a great deal.

Susan

Did anyone else here get the survey that e-chinuch.org sent out to users?

Truth be told, I don't surf over there very often. I was surprised to find
out that they had a category called parent/homeschooler and absolutely
STUNNED to find out that they have a homeschool message board. [...]41_5Jun200513:01:16-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 8599 79 50_Re: older kids: some reading and writing resources17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:12:26 -0400647_iso-8859-1 Avivah, wish you had asked me before you ordered!!!

As Avivah mentioned, I have used "Daybooks of Reading and Writing"
from Great Source as a transition into learning how to read
reflectively. I am generally quite "anti-workbook", but my kids LOVE
this, and the reading selections are good ( often inspiring the kids
to read the whole book in the library), and the exercises thoughtful
and open-ended, with many interesting writing assignments used as a
means of deepening understanding of literature. Once you have bought
one of these books, you can apply the techniques to anything you read
( lots [...]37_5Jun200516:12:26-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 8679 192 14_Re: older kids13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:19:26 -0700521_iso-8859-1 I plan to use the library. I honestly don't believe that it will be THAT difficult to do, despite what they say. After all, they give you a schedule and you know when a book will be coming up, so you can order it from your library system or through an interlibrary loan if it isn't available locally. And I don't have a problem with being very flexible with their schedule - I value my autonomy too much to get stuck in someone else's routine. If I can't get a book, then I will just wing it. I happen to [...]43_5Jun200515:19:26-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 8872 85 11_Re: bedtime13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:28:15 -0700553_iso-8859-1 My kids have a schedule like this, and it works out great for us. I have a relaxing evening routine (outdoor play with friends until 7, dinner together, pajamas, toothbrushing, read alouds) and everyone gets to bed between 9:30 and 10 pm without any tension, which is worth a lot. The older two are allowed to be up while in their beds for a bit longer; my daughter has her own light and likes to read, and my son appreciates the opportunity to listen to the ball games. Their schedule is regular, it just happens that they get up later [...]43_5Jun200515:28:15-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 8958 132 50_Re: older kids: some reading and writing resources13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:14:41 -0700512_iso-8859-1 >>Avivah, wish you had asked me before you ordered!!!<<

Uh oh - why? Right after we spoke, I took a look at Vegsource and it happened that someone had just posted it for sale. It looks good, but I think I will get another level for my kids; this one is geared for 9th graders; the seller said it could be adapted for younger kids, so being aware that I was taking a chance, I got it. I really wanted to see what kind of style it was done in, and I didn't find the website a bit helpful in [...]43_5Jun200516:14:41-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 9091 70 34_Re: Little kids with big questions14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 17:43:11 -0500359_iso-8859-1 My 4YO son recently asked why H-shem made man. Phew! I was suprised at
that one! I try to answer his questions as simply and honestly as possible.
I want him to know that he can ask my husband and I anything he needs to.
Guess my advice is just to be open and honest, and simple let them feel
comfortable with asking you anything. [...]44_5Jun200517:43:11-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 9162 52 11_Re: bedtime17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:57:54 -0400347_us-ascii I can tell you haven't hit the teenage years yet. 7:30-8:00 is a
decent waking time... it's when your kids want to get up at noon or
later that you have to seriously wonder whether this is a freedom you
want to encourage.
( and yes, both my husband and I have learned to relish the very
early morning quiet.)
Chana [...]37_5Jun200518:57:54-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 9215 77 14_Re: older kids13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 16:22:44 -0700325_iso-8859-1 I didn't mean that one approach should fit all kids, but that it would be nice if what worked for a given child would continue to be effective for that child throughout the years. Since it changes, it means constantly readapting (at least in my home, where someone is always going in or out of a new stage!). [...]43_5Jun200516:22:44-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 9293 201 14_Re: older kids17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:13:32 -0400557_us-ascii Sounds like your first order of business is getting your kids back to
a healthy spot.
I would agree that bedtime is the least of your issues now.

One way I encouraged teens to get up was to make plans for the coming
day and tell them that if they were up, davened, and ready by 10:00
am, I would go out with them.. otherwise, it cut into my day too
much. If they weren't ready, then I just did my own thing. Thus,
there are natural consequences to getting up late, but other than
establishing your own schedule and [...]37_5Jun200520:13:32-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 9495 20 17_Re: Writer's Inc.17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:19:43 -0400530_us-ascii I have seen Writer's Inc. and did not like it nearly as much as
WriteSource 2000... Also, I personally found some pages objectionable.
Chana

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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG37_5Jun200520:19:43-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 9516 34 11_Re: bedtime12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:09:00 -0400367_us-ascii It's interesting that this turned into a whole thread about bedtime.
I've been enjoying reading everyone's posts.

When I originally posted in response to Rivky, I was only commenting
that I didn't think the mere fact of *homeschooling* necessarily
means that there's no reason to get up in the morning, or to have an
earlier bedtime. [...]43_5Jun200521:09:00-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 9551 48 34_Re: Little kids with big questions15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:51:04 -0700565_iso-8859-1 I've always said that kids have the hardest shailas!!!
Even Rav Moshe would be stumped for a few moments,
I'm sure! :)

Alison

--- Harry Broome wrote:

> My oldest (almost 5) is starting to grapple with
> questions about the nature of Hashem (e.g., "Can He
> come to my birthday party?", "But what does He LOOK
> like???") and and questions about life/death (mostly
> concern that Haman, Pharoah, etc. cannot hurt us
> now.
> "Why not? Where are they? Are they 'dead'?
> Why?"). [...]44_5Jun200518:51:04-0700alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 9600 123 32_Re: Question about e-chinuch.org16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:47:13 -0400500_iso-8859-1 re. e-chinuch: I use Rabbi Mendel Balsam's parsha sheets each week for my 4th grader and they are GREAT! I'm thinking of writing him a fan letter over the summer :). They are almost all in hebrew, but some of the hard words are translated, and he puts the answers in a box at the bottom which helps my daughter a lot. Also, they are handwritten, but done very neatly, unlike some of the other things I've gotten from e-chinuch which *I* have trouble reading they're done so sloppily. [...]49_6Jun200516:47:13-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 9724 37 16_Re: Introduction16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:51:50 -0400577_iso-8859-1 "We both feel that the negatives of school outweighed the
positives for us, and want to do things differently for our kids."

Hi Sigal,

Nice to see you in here! I absolutely agree with what you wrote, esp. about
college being such an enjoyable change. I was on home tutoring for about
half of high school due to a series of back operations, and I couldn't
believe how quickly I got everything done and how much more enjoyable it was
to learn on my own (or with the tutor the school sent for something like 2
hours a week!) rather [...]49_6Jun200516:51:50-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 9762 46 17_Re: Writer's Inc.15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:43:40 -0700821_- Chana,

I'm a bit late to this thread. Does WriteSource involve creative writing
too? I use Writing Strands, which we are very happy with, but it is
strictly a writer's program.

Michelle

>From: Chana Silberstein
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Writer's Inc.
>Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:19:43 -0400
>
>I have seen Writer's Inc. and did not like it nearly as much as WriteSource
>2000... Also, I personally found some pages objectionable.
>Chana
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
>Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
>a service of Hebrew College, which offers [...]46_6Jun200516:43:40-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 9809 78 11_Re: bedtime15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:50:01 -0700651_- Chana,

Well, it has been quite a while since I had a teen (he's 27). I certainly
do recall those long sleep-in mornings; we homeschooled half of 9th grade.
On the other hand, I have blanked out a lot of it too. I hope to have a
better handle on it this time.

Michelle

>From: Chana Silberstein
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] bedtime
>Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 18:57:54 -0400
>
> I can tell you haven't hit the teenage years yet. 7:30-8:00 is a decent
>waking time... it's when your kids want to get [...]46_6Jun200516:50:01-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 9888 23 11_Fellow LAer16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:52:59 -0700499_us-ascii Who is it that lives in N. Hollywood? Is it Larry? I have a question for
you, in any case. It's pertinent to hsing, though you can contact me
off-line.
Thanks,
Brenda

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_6Jun200516:52:59-0700lioness31@COMCAST.NET 9912 48 17_Re: Writer's Inc.17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:15:02 -04001015_iso-8859-1 >Chana,
>
>I'm a bit late to this thread. Does WriteSource involve creative
>writing too? I use Writing Strands, which we are very happy with,
>but it is strictly a writer's program.

Yes, it does: great reference for both fiction and non-fiction writing.

>>Chana
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
>>Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
>>a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
>>an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
>>
>>To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from
>McAfee® Security.
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The [...]37_6Jun200523:15:02-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 9961 32 28_Scott Foresman math anyone??15_Bara Loewenthal26_bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:16:38 -0600507_iso-8859-1 Hi,
I am not sure if my email got posted (my computer went blank for a while).
I found in the Rainbow Resource catalog a math programm by Scott Foresman I
think it is called Investigation Math. Is anybody familiar with it, positive
or negative comments are welcome.

Thanks

Bara

PS: I love the bedtime thread, Baruch Hashem that my kids stil think that I
rule them :)
They are young though so they are in bed by 7:30PM. But they are up at 6:00
AM!!! [...]47_6Jun200521:16:38-0600bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM 9994 28 32_Re: Scott Foresman math anyone??6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:22:01 -0600224_US-ASCII > PS: I love the bedtime thread, Baruch Hashem that my kids stil think that I
> rule them :)
> They are young though so they are in bed by 7:30PM. But they are up at 6:00
> AM!!!

Amen to that sister!41_6Jun200521:22:01-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 10023 38 27_Re: forewarned is forearmed14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:41:43 +0200385_us-ascii One family I know who had a casino night for a bar mitzva party had a lot
of not frum people coming and it was their alternative to avoid mixed
dancing. We went to the party and my kids had a great time, the big kids
were helping them and sharing the chips that had no value. It was an
opportunity to talk about gambling with my kids, why we don't do it etc. [...]38_7Jun200504:41:43+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 10062 138 21_Re: What's in a name?14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:50:23 +0200575_us-ascii When I first learned about homeschooling, five years before I had
children, I thought it was interesting. Then I worked with children who
were homeschooled (trivia about me: I used to be a make up artist in the
entertainment industry). I was so impressed with these kids (one in
particular)that I spoke with the parents at length. The mom happened to
be a leader in Ohio at the time. Once I understood how incredible it was
(she gave me dumbing us down which I didn't read until years later) I
loved the idea of it. But I thought it needed [...]38_7Jun200503:50:23+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 10201 55 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 04:38:33 +0200575_us-ascii My Denver rebbitzin loaned me that book when I was writing mine. I read
it but don't really remember that much about it. She and her girls LOVED
it though. My daughter is only 9 so next time I look at it, it will be
with different eyes.
hope that helps,
Laya

On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:39:06 -0500 Eric & Lori Swim
writes:
> Shalom, all:
>
> Our eldest daughter is fast approaching the onset of menses, and we
> came
> across the book, "The Wonder of Becoming You", offered by Artscroll.
> We
> have [...]38_7Jun200504:38:33+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 10257 25 15_Hebrew workbook6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:45:43 -0600209_US-ASCII Dear Chana,

Can you please tell me where to get muchanut l'ivrit? My 6 yo son is really
slowing down (i.e., bored) with the primer I'm using. Maybe this book would
be appropriate? Thanks!41_6Jun200521:45:43-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 10283 39 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 01:00:14 -0400326_us-ascii I gave this book to my daughter about six months ago (when she was
about 10 and a half). She read it immediately and really appreciated
it. I noticed that she keeps it by her bed and re-reads it
occasionally. It's a very sensitively written book and she seems to
feel very validated by its approach. [...]43_7Jun200501:00:14-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 10323 36 16_Re: hsing groups12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 03:30:04 -0400617_iso-8859-1 Question about belonging to/participating in Christian or secular
homeschooling groups/activities - what about the social aspect - do they
make friends with these children? One of my major concerns about this aspect
is what to do about this. I took my daughter to a creative writing class (a
total of four sessions) right after we took her out of school and she became
friendly with another girl there who happens to be Muslim - colorful head
scarf... The mother obviously converted - light coloring, used to be a
cheerleader - and dd corresponds via email with this girl. Dd has [...]45_7Jun200503:30:04-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 10360 83 24_new yeshiva in jerusalem0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:40:16 EDT579_US-ASCII from another list that I am on:

Their website: www.netsach.org

An article about the Yeshiva

http://floridajewishnews.com/articles/content/view/67/52/

Rena in Baltimore

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG36_7Jun200507:40:16EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 10444 84 32_Re: Scott Foresman math anyone??17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:10:18 -0400630_us-ascii >Hi,
>I am not sure if my email got posted (my computer went blank for a while).
>I found in the Rainbow Resource catalog a math programm by Scott Foresman I
>think it is called Investigation Math. Is anybody familiar with it, positive
>or negative comments are welcome.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bara

If you go for traditional math programs, I consider Scott
Foresman/Addison Wessley the best out there. Cheap alternative to the
expensive textbooks that I used for many years: I ordered the
workbook for each elementary level, and also the enrichment book.
(Or, if you have a kid that [...]37_7Jun200508:10:18-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 10529 56 19_Re: Hebrew workbook17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:20:02 -0400455_us-ascii >Dear Chana,
>
>Can you please tell me where to get muchanut l'ivrit? My 6 yo son is really
>slowing down (i.e., bored) with the primer I'm using. Maybe this book would
>be appropriate? Thanks!
>--
>Shoshana Zohari
>najova@earthlink.net

I want to stress that this book is NOT a reading primer: it teaches
Hebrew language to pre-readers, largely pictorially ( using the
initial letter to help probe memory). [...]37_7Jun200508:20:02-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 10586 26 23_...and another thing...14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 10:47:32 +0200557_us-ascii What about "avi mori, imi morati" (my father my teacher, my mother my
teacher)?

Isn't that part of the after blessing on bread? Basic, right? Am I
taking this role as mother and teacher too literally?

;o)

Laya

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_7Jun200510:47:32+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 10613 72 16_Re: hsing groups15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:40:51 -0700631_- Caryn,

This problem would not come up if it were a Christinan group. There is a
world of difference between a Christian and a Muslim. In the hschooling
world, Christians tend to be Zionist, while Muslims are.......do I really
need to say more? I would never allow a friendship with a Muslim whose
religion compels them to support or participate in my murder! This is
exactly why these eclectic, non-Christian groups have never worked for us.
My children have made friends with several former neighbors who are
Christian Zionist hschooling families, but we didn't meet them through a
group. We [...]46_7Jun200507:40:51-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 10686 66 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:01:51 -0400565_- I think i would suggest telling her the truth. She is asking questions. She
is realizing there is something she doesnt know, as how can a child look
like his/her father? She is curious and if you dont explain it to her, she
will explore the answers elsewhere. Frum girls are learning of these things
younger than in my day, it seems to me. Where do you want your daughter to
get her information from? Her peers? The library? Some parents choose to let
their kids learn this from their peers. That is your choice of course, but i
wouldnt [...]43_7Jun200512:01:51-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 10753 84 16_Re: hsing groups11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:32:32 -0700570_iso-8859-1 Caryn,

This is definitely a potential problem. We're all influenced by how we grew
up, and in my case we were the only religious family on the block, so my
closest friend outside of school hours was a Catholic girl down the street.
We spent hours together, especially in the summers, until I was old enough
to get around on my own. Obviously I never ate at her house, or slept over
and she never did at my house either. I don't remember this ever being a
question - it was just how things were. There was a subtle difference
[...]41_7Jun200511:32:32-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 10838 149 34_Re: Little kids with big questions12_Lisa Edwards17_lkraus126@AOL.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:06:04 -0400435_us-ascii There are some good board books by Lawrence Kushner -- "Where is G-d?, "Why does G-d Make Things Happen," "What does G-d look like?" and there may be a few others. I read them all the time with my 3 and 5 year old girls and they go over very well. The author is Jewish but they are written from a nondenominational perspective, and the illustrations show people of all races and colors, which is very nice in my opinion. [...]38_7Jun200516:06:04-0400lkraus126@AOL.COM 10988 52 22_Go ahead! Make my day!11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:00:51 -0400554_- As many of you know, i have been very insecure about being
confronted/answering questions about my homeschooling. Well, yesterday i
finaly pulled it off-)
I was talking to this lady on the phone. Never met her. We're new here in
Toronto. She asked aobut where my kids go to school. When we just moved, i
was able to say things like we didnt find a school yet and blah blah, (and
actually was considering school for some of my kids..) but i cant get away
with that forever, so i said we are homeschooling. Now i have to say, i [...]43_7Jun200517:00:51-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11041 92 11_Re: bedtime11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:02:31 -0400678_- Do your kids sleep schedule change in the summer?

>From: Avivah Werner
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] bedtime
>Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 15:28:15 -0700
>
>My kids have a schedule like this, and it works out great for us. I have a
>relaxing evening routine (outdoor play with friends until 7, dinner
>together, pajamas, toothbrushing, read alouds) and everyone gets to bed
>between 9:30 and 10 pm without any tension, which is worth a lot. The
>older two are allowed to be up while in their beds for a bit longer; my
>daughter has [...]43_7Jun200517:02:31-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11134 141 11_Re: bedtime13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:05:09 -0700357_iso-8859-1 Yep, bedtime gets later in the summer. What I outlined is my summer schedule. It is about an hour earlier in the winter.

But remember, my older two kids could be awake in bed for up to an hour after they get in bed.

Avivah

Rivky Kahan wrote:
Do your kids sleep schedule change in the summer? [...]43_7Jun200515:05:09-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 11276 93 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:06:53 -0700620_iso-8859-1 Congratulations, Rivky! I know what a struggle this has been for you. This is quite a victory!

Avivah

Rivky Kahan wrote:
As many of you know, i have been very insecure about being
confronted/answering questions about my homeschooling. Well, yesterday i
finaly pulled it off-)
I was talking to this lady on the phone. Never met her. We're new here in
Toronto. She asked aobut where my kids go to school. When we just moved, i
was able to say things like we didnt find a school yet and blah blah, (and
actually was considering school for some of [...]43_7Jun200515:06:53-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 11370 175 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:13:36 -0700606_iso-8859-1 Forwarded from a list member who wishes to remain anonymous to protect the identity of those she has referred to:

In light of the problems that have been discussed here, a new question
comes up for me. Within a religious community, we are so closed about
talking about abuse. We want to protect "perpetrators" so maybe they
have
a chance of doing tshuva. Sometimes victims will be even more
victimized
if they come out and talk. Fear is a heavy and oppressive factor in
people talking. There are two cases where people have confided in me
and
I'm not sure [...]43_7Jun200515:13:36-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 11546 89 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:16:30 -0500508_us-ascii Fantastic, Rivky! Sounds like you handled it really well!

Love,
Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 4:01 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!

As many of you know, i have been very insecure about being
confronted/answering questions about my homeschooling. Well, yesterday i [...]39_7Jun200517:16:30-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 11636 127 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:20:32 -0700606_iso-8859-1 Forwarded from a list member who wishes to remain anonymous to protect the identity of those she has referred to:

In light of the problems that have been discussed here, a new question
comes up for me. Within a religious community, we are so closed about
talking about abuse. We want to protect "perpetrators" so maybe they
have
a chance of doing tshuva. Sometimes victims will be even more
victimized
if they come out and talk. Fear is a heavy and oppressive factor in
people talking. There are two cases where people have confided in me
and
I'm not sure [...]43_7Jun200515:20:32-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 11764 538 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:29:45 -0500331_us-ascii In case #1, while I can understand the teenager feeling that way, an
adult should be able to see that a family that is "torn apart" from a
man exhibiting the kind of behavior you describe is better off. The
community should step in to give financial support to the wife and
children, if that's the issue. [...]39_7Jun200517:29:45-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 12303 37 19_Re: Hebrew workbook6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:58:06 -0600518_US-ASCII on 6/7/05 6:20 AM, Chana Silberstein at cs32@CORNELL.EDU wrote:

>> Dear Chana,
>>
>> Can you please tell me where to get muchanut l'ivrit? My 6 yo son is really
>> slowing down (i.e., bored) with the primer I'm using. Maybe this book would
>> be appropriate? Thanks!

>
> They have another book, Kriah V'Havanah that does reading drills
> interspersed with some teaching of vocabulary, etc.. I have used it
> before, but it is not my favorite book for teaching reading. [...]41_7Jun200517:58:06-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 12341 126 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:02:46 -0400480_us-ascii bs'd
If there is a competent Beth-Din in the town, they will step
in with social worker or psychological help that will not
go to the secular authorities. If they have reason to believe
that the wife and children would be in danger if they did even
that, then they would let the wife obtain a restraining order
from the secular court, and would provide her with 24 by 7 coverage,
give her a cell phone, and do whatever it took to keep her safe. [...]40_7Jun200520:02:46-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 12468 117 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:25:31 -0400620_us-ascii bs'd
I'm a hybrid homeschooler, having homeschooled winters
in Florida to get away from ear infections, strep, and
4-month courses of antibiotics. But this year my kids
have stayed in New York in school for the winter.

I am amazed that my 4th grader (9yo daughter) could have
gone through all of Bereishith and not have asked about:
- Adam having known his wife Chava, who then gave birth to...
- The geneology from Adam to Noach, where the men have the
verb 'holid' (actively caused to be born), and what the
meforshim say on the passive-causative form 'yuldu lahem'
[...]40_7Jun200520:25:31-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 12586 53 34_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You (2)18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:37:37 -0400507_us-ascii bs'd
We had a 14-yo foster girl for 2 weeks when we were in a foster parent
program. The girl's normally assigned foster mother had to
go to Israel and she could not stay alone with the foster father.
One night I come into the kitchen and she is doing her Chumash
homework while listening to the radio. Which program did she find?
One of her (and her friends') favorites. It was a discussion show
about sexual problems. Not normal ones. No, no. Audience-drawing
lulus. [...]40_7Jun200520:37:37-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 12640 46 34_ethics and reporting: getting help11_Abbi Perets15_abbi@PERETS.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:43:55 -0700606_us-ascii I write modules that teach corporate ethics to employees at companies
across the United States. Recent U.S. laws (Sarbanes-Oxley and
similar) have made it mandatory for companies of a certain size to
maintain an anonymous hotline where employees can call to report
wrongdoing. What we stress in these modules is this:

If you even SUSPECT that someone may be doing something wrong, EVEN
IF YOU HAVE NO PROOF, you are OBLIGATED to report your suspicions. If
you choose NOT to report your suspicions, you can ultimately be held
accountable along with the wrongdoers. [...]36_7Jun200515:43:55-0700abbi@PERETS.NET 12687 161 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:53:43 -0500545_ISO-8859-1 First let me say that abuse of any kind is intolerable. I would say the
main focus needs to be on providing a safe atmosphere for the kids and
the parents, and that includes the abusing parent so he wont do it
anymore. If there is a rav around then he needs to be consulted. If
there isnt then there are many resources in the non-Jewish world to cope
with this.
As far as the mother getting a handgun permit or weapon of any kind: mom
killing dad in front of kids sounds like bad ju-ju no matter what. I
[...]48_7Jun200520:53:43-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 12849 45 19_Re: Hebrew workbook17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:57:43 -0400609_us-ascii >
>Right now we are using Mavo L'Kriah and a reading primer from Behrman House.
>But the Behrman one depends a great deal on writing and we are just not
>there yet. What might you suggest in place of these? Thanks.

mavo l'kriah tends to be a difficult book.
Right now my favorite is Girsa D'yankusa. Colorful, many nice
features ( starts with letters with pictures of words starting with
that letter on the page, many familiar words to read, nice gentle
progression of skills, nice pages in back of collections of fruits,
vegetables, etc. with words to read, some [...]37_7Jun200521:57:43-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 12895 35 38_Re: ethics and reporting: getting help10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:14:56 -0700578_iso-8859-1 > If you even SUSPECT that someone may be doing something wrong, EVEN
> IF YOU HAVE NO PROOF, you are OBLIGATED to report your suspicions. If
> you choose NOT to report your suspicions, you can ultimately be held
> accountable along with the wrongdoers.

I strongly concur with this! In addition, if you have any reason to think
that the person or agency you first spoke to didn't take appropriate action,
you are obligated to report it to someone else who will act such as the
police. Ideally, I'd always want to be able to tell a local [...]35_7Jun200519:14:56-0700zara@HAIMO.NET 12931 106 32_Re: Scott Foresman math anyone??15_Bara Loewenthal26_bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:10:24 -0600660_us-ascii Wow,
thanks so much for the great outline.
Thanks a lot Bara

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG]On Behalf
Of Chana Silberstein
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 6:10 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Scott Foresman math anyone??

>Hi,
>I am not sure if my email got posted (my computer went blank for a while).
>I found in the Rainbow Resource catalog a math programm by Scott Foresman I
>think it is called Investigation Math. Is anybody familiar with it,
positive
>or negative comments are welcome.
>
>Thanks
>
>Bara [...]47_7Jun200521:10:24-0600bara@BTGENTERPRISESINC.COM 13038 37 19_Re: Hebrew workbook12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:12:46 -07000_40_7Jun200520:12:46-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 13076 204 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:42:27 -0500522_us-ascii Point taken, Bill.

I'm just saying that IF things are the way described. . .

But why do you say, "this actually happened"? The scenario you describe
(crazed dad killing mother, and sometimes kids) happens very frequently.

That's why Benzion said it's important for the mother to have a method
of self-defense.

No one thinks that a mother having to kill a father in self-defense is a
good thing. But I'd much rather the kids live with that then the
alternate scenario. [...]39_8Jun200506:42:27-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 13281 86 38_Re: ethics and reporting: getting help13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:04:30 -0700667_iso-8859-1 >>If you even SUSPECT that someone may be doing something wrong, EVEN
IF YOU HAVE NO PROOF, you are OBLIGATED to report your suspicions. If
you choose NOT to report your suspicions, you can ultimately be held
accountable along with the wrongdoers.<<

I am very uncomfortable with this position. If anyone can report any suspicion about anything, there are no consequences for the person who makes false charges or builds up a straw man. Some people are hyper sensitive to imagined injustices/slights/unacceptable situations. To use homeschooling as an example: someone sees your kids playing outside repeatedly during school hours. You [...]43_8Jun200505:04:30-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 13368 1153 25_TORCH-D MONTHLY REMINDERS8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:30:43 -0500481_us-ascii -----Original Message-----
From: S Sloman [mailto:ssloman@netlab.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 9:30 PM
To: 'Torah-Centered Homeschooling'
Subject: TORCH-D MONTHLY REMINDERS

Please take a few minutes to read through these reminders of TorCH-d
policies, procedures, and guidelines, which are sent out on a monthly
basis. If you have any problems with the list, please let me know. If
you are enjoying the list, please let others know. [...]39_8Jun200509:30:43-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 14522 82 19_Re: Hebrew workbook13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:29:08 -0700474_iso-8859-1 Shoshana -

The Yanai books that Chana is talking about are used
in many of the local day schools that have a Ivrit
B'Ivrit program. It is my opinion, that unless the
parent/teacher's Hebrew is very good, they would be
difficult to use in a homeschooling situation

They are very nice, in an old fashioned kind of way.
I used Kriah V'Havana and Yesodot HaLashon Alef for my
children, but they were not all that happy with them. [...]40_8Jun200513:29:08-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 14605 37 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:33:27 -0700756_iso-8859-1 You go, girl, go!

Barb.

--- Rivky Kahan wrote:

> As many of you know, i have been very insecure about
> being
> confronted/answering questions about my
> homeschooling. Well, yesterday i
> finaly pulled it off-)

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]40_8Jun200513:33:27-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 14643 39 19_Re: Hebrew workbook13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:46:05 -0700417_iso-8859-1 Shoshana -

> Right now we are using Mavo L'Kriah and a reading
> primer from Behrman House.
> But the Behrman one depends a great deal on writing
> and we are just not
> there yet. What might you suggest in place of
> these?

Are you just looking for something to use for learning
how to read? Try this one from Feldheim "Step-By-Step"
by Esti Wolf. www.feldheim.com [...]40_8Jun200513:46:05-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 14683 94 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:27:51 -0700356_iso-8859-1 I think these are horrific stories. , but the
"authorities" are the last place to go. I salute you
for correctly realizing the impact and trauma such
actions could cause. That is not to say one should
never go to authorities, but only when all else is
exhausted or their is a severe danger. The first
place is the mother. [...]40_8Jun200514:27:51-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 14778 41 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help17_Rachel Turniansky28_rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:26:17 -0400653_- >I'm heart broken by these two scenarios. Here are at least three
>families that need help. Where are they supposed to turn? How many
>other families have secrets that are burning inside them, not asking
>for
>help when they need help?
>
>Silence is devastating. Sometimes telling can add to the devastation.
>All thoughts appreciated.

I don't know if there is help available in other cities, but here in
Baltimore there is an organization called CHANA that offers access to
counceling, legal services and even a safe house. the confidential number
is 410-234-0023. There is someone there Monday and Thursday [...]49_8Jun200508:26:17-0400rachelturniansky@HOTMAIL.COM 14820 137 38_Re: ethics and reporting: getting help15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:19:38 -0700543_- I'm going to come out of the closet here as a survivor of domestic abuse.
Twenty two years ago I left a very abusive (physically and emotionally)
husband (not Jewish) with a five year old in tow. I did it with the help of
a Safe House in Anchorage, Alaska. Without them, I could not have done it.
I was isolated and alone, far from family and friends (which is how the
abuser intended it should be). If someone had reported it, I don't think it
would have helped me, because I had to be ready to help myself. When
[...]46_8Jun200506:19:38-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 14958 45 38_Re: ethics and reporting: getting help12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:51:54 -0400605_iso-8859-1 Abuse is obviously a difficult issue. I really don't think that owning a gun
is a good idea since many times it gets turned on the victim. What might be
important are self-defense classes because this is psychologically
empowering and a method of protection that can be used anywhere at anytime.
I would think, from what I've read, that abuse often occurs because the
abuser feels powerless and/or has low self-esteem and uses this as a means
of empowerment. If the "abusee" is not seen as powerless then this may
change the dynamics, especially if one has a means of [...]45_8Jun200510:51:54-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 15004 88 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:11:58 -0700592_iso-8859-1 I heard Rabbi Kelemen speak last year on his Kindle A
Soul book. One question that came up was how to tell
your kids about intimate husband-wife relations. He
didn't give details about the substance of the
subject, but gave this general advice: First of all,
tell your child that you will explain everything to
her, and in more detail than she will get anywhere
else, but there are two rules for the child - (1) She
cannot tell her friends what you tell her; (2) She
cannot ask specific questions about her parents as it
relates to this subject. [...]42_8Jun200508:11:58-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM 15093 49 34_Re: Little kids with big questions12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 08:15:31 -0700629_iso-8859-1 Thanks, I'll check them out. I also saw Artscroll
publishes "Where are You, Hashem?" but I haven't seen
it yet.

Harry

-------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:06:04 -0400
From: Lisa Edwards
Subject: Re: Little kids with big questions

There are some good board books by Lawrence Kushner --
"Where is G-d?,
"Why does G-d Make Things Happen," "What does G-d look
like?" and there
may be a few others. I read them all the time with my
3 and 5 year old
girls and they go over very well. The author is
Jewish but they are
written from [...]42_8Jun200508:15:31-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM 15143 131 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:55:27 -0400528_- Thank you. She was a good person to start with in practicing this skill,
since like i say, she is a very comfortable person to talk to. I have spoken
to this lady before. She had been a contact source when i was checking out a
yeshiva in Toronto for one of my kids. I have never met her, but i'm really
begining to like her a lot. Notice how in the conversation she keeps saying
"I see what you mean" or "That's true." I dont know that most people are so
easy going and unasuming. Notice she also didnt [...]43_8Jun200511:55:27-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15275 28 14_spelling power14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:37:49 +0200349_us-ascii Hi all,

I've been taking notes about great products for teaching and spelling
power is on my list. Thing is, I went to the store and there are several
on the market with that name apparently. Can you give me more details
about the one that you use, (including the publisher) and what products
in the series you use? [...]38_8Jun200523:37:49+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 15304 73 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:01:59 +0200551_us-ascii > One is a young woman who confided in me about a time she was baby
> sitting
> for a family (she was a teenager at the time).

Why is it okay for the girl to be torn apart, and not the family?! It is
NOT her responsibility to protect the perpetrator, or even his family!!
Number one, she should get the help she needs. And if that includes
reporting the assault to the authorities and possibly pressing charges
against the perpetrator, so be it. A lot of time has passed, and I don't
know what the statute of [...]45_9Jun200502:01:59+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 15378 47 38_Re: ethics and reporting: getting help11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:09:33 -0400713_- >From: Avivah Werner
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] ethics and reporting: getting help
>Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:04:30 -0700
>
> >>If you even SUSPECT that someone may be doing something wrong, EVEN
>IF YOU HAVE NO PROOF, you are OBLIGATED to report your suspicions. If
>you choose NOT to report your suspicions, you can ultimately be held
>accountable along with the wrongdoers.<<
>
>I am very uncomfortable with this position. If anyone can report any
>suspicion about anything, there are no consequences for the person who
>makes false charges or builds up a [...]43_8Jun200519:09:33-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15426 77 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:06:14 -0400566_- Thanks Barb! But actually i dont know that i'm ready for everyone to line up
and challenge me with questions and arguments about homeschooling. This
particular woman was actually a very gentle unasumming person. Some people
can be quite nasty. Like the woman who said to me in a huffy voice years ago
"I hope you know what you're doing!"
I think for me though, what seems to be helping me to feel more comfortable
with this type of thing is to stop thinking in terms of giving people handy
one-liners, or think in terms of how to get rid [...]43_8Jun200519:06:14-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15504 144 11_Re: bedtime11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:21:01 -0400627_- I hate to ask this, but how do you know how long your kids are awake in bed?
I wouldnt know that kind of thing unless my kid was not functioning the next
day, i'd have to look into what was going on with their sleep. Do you walk
into their room to check on them to see if they're sleeping? Rivky
>From: Avivah Werner
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] bedtime
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 15:05:09 -0700
>
>Yep, bedtime gets later in the summer. What I outlined is my summer
>schedule. It is [...]43_8Jun200519:21:01-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15649 36 34_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You (2)11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:26:05 -0400579_- >From: Benjamin H Dickman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] The Wonder of Becoming You (2)
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:37:37 -0400
>
>bs'd
>We had a 14-yo foster girl for 2 weeks when we were in a foster parent
>program. The girl's normally assigned foster mother had to
>go to Israel and she could not stay alone with the foster father.
>One night I come into the kitchen and she is doing her Chumash
>homework while listening to the radio. [...]43_8Jun200519:26:05-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15686 34 30_Re: The Wonder of Becoming You11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:28:16 -0400487_- >From: Benjamin H Dickman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] The Wonder of Becoming You
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:25:31 -0400
>
>bs'd
>I'm a hybrid homeschooler, having homeschooled winters
>in Florida to get away from ear infections, strep, and
>4-month courses of antibiotics. But this year my kids
>have stayed in New York in school for the winter. [...]43_8Jun200519:28:16-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15721 109 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:29:36 -0400806_- Well thanks. She didnt throw the you-know-what question at me, as you
notice. Rivky

>From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:16:30 -0500
>
>Fantastic, Rivky! Sounds like you handled it really well!
>
>Love,
>Shoshana Sloman
>Torch-d listowner
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
>Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 4:01 PM
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!
>
>As many of you know, i have been very insecure about being
>confronted/answering questions about my [...]43_8Jun200519:29:36-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15831 42 15_Re: Fellow LAer11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:30:51 -0400819_- Ohhhh!!!!!! I finally figured out what LAer is. Sure took me a while Rivky

>From: Brenda Goldstein
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: [TORCH-D] Fellow LAer
>Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:52:59 -0700
>
>Who is it that lives in N. Hollywood? Is it Larry? I have a question for
>you, in any case. It's pertinent to hsing, though you can contact me
>off-line.
>Thanks,
>Brenda
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
>Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
>a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
>an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
>
[...]43_8Jun200519:30:51-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15874 102 19_Re: Hebrew workbook11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 17:07:21 -0700373_iso-8859-1 Barbara,

This is a problem I run into a lot. The stories or exercises that are at my
kids' Hebrew levels are way below their maturity level. So I don't think
your kids are being difficult. I know that they try to do more sophisticated
stories in simple English for ELS students, and it would be great if we
could find the same in Hebrew. [...]41_8Jun200517:07:21-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 15977 59 42_Re: was yeshiva concerns, now getting help13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:27:25 -0700581_iso-8859-1 I called CHANA here in Baltimore to discuss an issue of emotional abuse regarding someone I know fairly well. The counselor basically told me what I already knew, that the woman has to be ready to help herself before they can do anything to help her. It takes tremendous courage to take action get out of a situation like this, and is especially difficult for battered women, whose self-esteem is so low and are filled with so much (legitimate) fear. The main suggestion was to try to empower her, to help her recognize her inherent strengths, and provide her with [...]43_8Jun200518:27:25-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 16037 53 34_Re: Little kids with big questions14_Sigal Gottlieb23_sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:25:52 -0700603_iso-8859-1 Hi Harry,

My 2 cents:
I, personally, did not like "Where are You, Hashem?"
at all. The book starts off with many pages of "I
looked for Hashem in (home, hospital, swingset etc.
etc.) ... and didn't find him", and then, after your
kid has either drifted off to sleep or gone away to
read something more uplifting, the book concludes with
a page on "Hashem is everywhere". The overwhelming
message, which is repeated over and over, is that you
look for Hashem and DON'T find Him. I thought this
was the opposite of what I wanted him to understand.
[...]44_8Jun200518:25:52-0700sigalgottlieb@YAHOO.COM 16091 132 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:29:18 -0500883_us-ascii Socialization?

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:30 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!

Well thanks. She didnt throw the you-know-what question at me, as you
notice. Rivky

>From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!
>Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:16:30 -0500
>
>Fantastic, Rivky! Sounds like you handled it really well!
>
>Love,
>Shoshana Sloman
>Torch-d listowner
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
>Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, [...]39_8Jun200520:29:18-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 16224 151 26_Re: Go ahead! Make my day!11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:32:43 -0400837_- Righto!

>From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!
>Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:29:18 -0500
>
>Socialization?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
>Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
>Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 6:30 PM
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!
>
>Well thanks. She didnt throw the you-know-what question at me, as you
>notice. Rivky
>
> >From: S Sloman
> >Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
> >To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> >Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Go ahead! Make my day!
> >Date: Tue, 7 Jun [...]43_8Jun200521:32:43-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 16376 38 38_Re: ethics and reporting: getting help10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:55:50 -0700444_iso-8859-1 > I'm going to come out of the closet here as a survivor of domestic abuse.

I also survived years of physical abuse that came out in the open only when
there finally was a witness and the police were called. I then had to deal
with rabbis and a religious community that didn't want to believe that
someone they knew and liked could be an abuser and tried to cover the
situation up putting me at greater risk. [...]35_8Jun200518:55:50-0700zara@HAIMO.NET 16415 25 18_Re: spelling power10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 19:29:33 -0700585_iso-8859-1 Spelling Power is a large, thick, bright orange paperbound book. The author
is Beverly Adams-Gordon, it costs about $50, and the ISBN is 188882719X .
We got it from Sonlight (a Xian homeschool curriculum supplier) and also
bought the test booklets. They have pages with lines already setup for
entering spelling tests followed by worksheets for studying any words that
were missed. They are very inexpensive and worth having so your kids have
all their spelling tests in one place, but you don't have to buy them to use
Spelling Power effectively. [...]35_8Jun200519:29:33-0700zara@HAIMO.NET 16441 45 34_Re: Little kids with big questions12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 22:39:54 -0400590_us-ascii Sigal,

You explained so well why I also have never been comfortable with
this book! Someone gave it to us as a gift, but I don't enjoy reading
it because it doesn't seem to resonate with what my children really
wonder about, and it does not hold their interest.

I haven't found any one book that "covers" all of the big questions
about Hashem, but I find that books published by Hachai help children
develop an understanding of some very deep concepts, on their level.
Books such as "All About Us" and "A Little Boy Named Avram" -- and
more [...]43_8Jun200522:39:54-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 16487 86 34_Re: Little kids with big questions12_Harry Broome21_harrybroome@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 01:04:41 -0700613_iso-8859-1 Thank you, Sigal and Yael, for the great input.

One thing I've been finding helpful is to consider
with each question she asks whether the question is
coming from curiosity or emotion (or both, of course).
The death questions, understandably, are mostly
coming from fears, and I see she mainly wants to be
comforted. But even her questions about Hashem
sometimes have an emotional component. So, when I
sense that, in my answer I try to focus on our
relationship with Hashem - how we experience His love
for us and all the amazing things He does for us, etc.
[...]42_9Jun200501:04:41-0700harrybroome@YAHOO.COM 16574 148 9_re; abuse0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:53:29 EDT576_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/9/05 1:57:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> When I picked up the phone to the safe house, I spoke to them everyday for
> moral support when my husband was at work and they helped me work out a plan
>
> to escape

Hugs to you Michelle. I have a friend who has done work/counseling for
project Chana here in baltimore. This organization was mentioned by Rachel. My
friend tells me that the most dangerous time for a woman and her kids is when she
leaves. So this has to be done very [...]36_9Jun200509:53:29EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 16723 57 9_Re: abuse0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:57:46 EDT592_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/9/05 1:57:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> She needs to protect herself, and possibly other girls
> in the community.

Amen to that! I have a daughter and many nieces who babysit.

Rena in Baltimore

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_9Jun200509:57:46EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 16781 68 38_Re: ethics and reporting: getting help15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 08:17:06 -0700532_- My point is.....when the abuser gets out of jail on bond (and they do), in
my case, I was pretty sure the revenge could have been fatal. I decided to
leave when I read of a local case of a woman being murdered in Anchorage by
her husband and realized it could be me. I would personally try and get
this woman in touch with a safe house because they are savy enough to know
how to manipulate the situation for the safety of the woman and her children
(their only concern). Thanks for sharing your story too. [...]46_9Jun200508:17:06-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 16850 35 34_Re: Little kids with big questions13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:44:28 -0700442_iso-8859-1 Sigal -

>> At the moment, techiyas hameisim
is the topic of interest.<<

So how do you answer this one. I always say I really
just don't know what it means and I guess when the
time comes, I will find out.

Barbara

__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html [...]40_9Jun200516:44:28-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 16886 56 9_Re: abuse15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:33:24 -0700404_iso-8859-1 Yes, I think I would be EXTREMELY upset if there was
someone in the community who sexually assualted a
teenaged girl and got away with it simply because
community members hoped he would do teshuva or were
scared to call civil authorities. A crime is a crime.

We have a greater obligation than our own fear. The
fact that I have a son makes this no less of a threat. [...]44_9Jun200515:33:24-0700alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 16943 65 37_Re: Positive article on homeschooling12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:19:58 -0400520_iso-8859-1 _Click here: USATODAY.com - Elite take home-school route_
(http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/2005-06-07-home-school-cover_x.htm)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG45_9Jun200519:19:58-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 17009 61 27_shabbos and electric stoves12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 19:26:39 -0400546_iso-8859-1 If anyone uses a totally enclosed - smooth (flat?) top - electric stove I'd appreciate if you could contact me at cml613@hotmail.com.

Thanks

Caryn

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG45_9Jun200519:26:39-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 17071 60 34_Re: Little kids with big questions14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 18:48:20 -0500347_ISO-8859-1 Techias HaMeisim is like this:
On a shabbos in December when its cold you go to shul to davven. You
come home after kiddush and have a nice big cholent with beef and
kishke. Maybe a schnapps as well. After lunch you go to lie down. It's
2:00. Mincha is at 3:30. When you get up, THAT'S Techias HaMeisim!
KT
Bill. [...]48_9Jun200518:48:20-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 17132 32 34_Re: Little kids with big questions12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:31:13 -0400434_us-ascii We focus on how exciting it will be to meet our great-grandparents,
great-great-grandparents, etc., and to reunite with people we loved
who have passed away.

Yael

> >> At the moment, techiyas hameisim
>is the topic of interest.<<
>
>So how do you answer this one. I always say I really
>just don't know what it means and I guess when the
>time comes, I will find out.
>
>Barbara [...]43_9Jun200520:31:13-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 17165 54 44_another curriculum question re: Great Source13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:23:05 -0700556_iso-8859-1 I received Great Source's catalog (which is much more helpful than the website), and now have another question. I noticed that they have a science daybook as well as the Science Saurus student handbook, and the daybook for reading and writing. I am wondering if once I am buying a daybook, if I should just get the science one and I will then cover two bases with one daybook (ie: science and writing). Is anyone familiar with this, or have any opinions on this? If I buy Science Saurus, is the daybook redundant? Is it done as well as the [...]43_9Jun200521:23:05-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 17220 43 9_Re: abuse14_Devora Farrell22_dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 07:20:18 -0400436_iso-8859-1 > Yes, I think I would be EXTREMELY upset if there was
> someone in the community who sexually assualted a
> teenaged girl and got away with it simply because
> community members hoped he would do teshuva or were
> scared to call civil authorities. A crime is a crime.
>
> We have a greater obligation than our own fear. The
> fact that I have a son makes this no less of a threat.
>
> Alison [...]44_10Jun200507:20:18-0400dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM 17264 108 19_Re: Hebrew workbook17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:24:47 -0400336_us-ascii Barbara, thanks for providing another view of these books.
While they are definitely "workbooky", they are one of the better
ones out there.
And it is true that the parent has to know Hebrew to make this work (
though I have learned a few things from these books over the years
that I did not know before). [...]38_10Jun200517:24:47-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 17373 30 13_ordering info6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 22:43:19 -0600297_US-ASCII Thank you to everyone who suggested Hebrew workbook ideas. I need to know
where to order the following:

Girsa D'Yankusa
Sefer Hamesores
Yannai books

The ktav website was great and I might try those too. we just have to hit
on something that clicks! Thanks again.42_11Jun200522:43:19-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 17404 24 41_Jewish Curriculum from www.arepublish.com12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 00:11:29 -0700526_us-ascii Has anyone used this curriculum from www.arepublish.com?

See it at: http://www.arepublish.com/curriculum.html

Thanks!
Rena W.

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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG41_12Jun200500:11:29-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 17429 151 48_Re: another curriculum question re: Great Source17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 03:26:02 -0400587_us-ascii >I received Great Source's catalog (which is much more helpful than
>the website), and now have another question. I noticed that they
>have a science daybook as well as the Science Saurus student
>handbook, and the daybook for reading and writing. I am wondering
>if once I am buying a daybook, if I should just get the science one
>and I will then cover two bases with one daybook (ie: science and
>writing). Is anyone familiar with this, or have any opinions on
>this? If I buy Science Saurus, is the daybook redundant? Is it
>done as well as the [...]38_12Jun200503:26:02-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 17581 77 16_Any suggestions?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:11:51 -0400560_- As you all may recall, in a recent post, i described how i was able to
handle myself on a phone conversation when being asked about my
homeschooling. The woman was a nice easy going person, but still it was
somewhat of a vctory for me because i really feel uncomfortable in these
type of situations. Now, over Yom Tov, i may be heading for something more
challenging.
We are new here in Toronto and as far as i know, we're the only frum
homeschoolers. (and if you know differently, send me an email as to who the
other family(s) [...]44_12Jun200511:11:51-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 17659 148 20_Re: Any suggestions?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:08:05 -0500377_us-ascii I like your idea about turning the tables around and asking, "Why do
they need such and such?"

When they say you need to send them to school to get a certain thing,
you can use your online frum homeschooling friends as evidence that it's
not so--they have gotten into yeshiva, they have gotten shidduchim, they
are socially well-adjusted, etc. [...]40_12Jun200511:08:05-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 17808 110 20_Re: Any suggestions?14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 10:56:32 -0500567_ISO-8859-1 Rivky,
You were invited a meal, not a debate. If you want to debate
homeschooling with someone then great. But if you want a meal I'd find
some way to deflect the conversation to a more neutral topic, like the
Israeli withdrawal from Gaza or whether the water in NYC is kosher. It
sounds like you're getting worked up for what may be nothing. Hope
fully this woman has enough seichel to realize that you are not going to
agree on this topic and play the graceful hostess and avoid it. If not,
throw the soup in her lap.
KT, [...]49_12Jun200510:56:32-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 17919 34 18_Re: Workbook ideas16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 14:56:35 -0400560_us-ascii Hi
1st) Happy Shavuoth to everyone
2nd) RE: WOrkbooks: From time to time I mention my Rashi workbook.
The latest version is located at http://www.Rashiyomi.com/wbook.htm

I have used similar ideas on children aged 7-12. The workbook focuses on
methods
and gives numerous exercises at several age levels.

I am always looking for feedback

I was just away for a week so couldnt respond to all items (Those who
want something
for shauvoth peek at http://www.Rashiyomi.com/shavuoth.htm cf the 2
decalogues) [...]39_12Jun200514:56:35-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 17954 167 20_Re: Any suggestions?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:02:04 -0400527_- Well, i got a good laugh again, Bill! I saved an old message of yours when i
posted a similar question and you had said one of the things to say was "The
judge said it was either that or reform school." That was my first good
laugh. I always enjoy the responses i got from you with these kind of
questions. I dont know about throwing the soup in their lap though :-) I
realize that i was invited to a meal not a debate, which is why i ended with
"Just watch-they wont say anything..." The problem with [...]44_12Jun200517:02:04-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 18122 72 20_Re: Any suggestions?14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:23:29 -0500527_ISO-8859-1 So, nu, Rivky?? We all want to hear about your meal!
KT
Bill

Rivky Kahan wrote:

> Well, i got a good laugh again, Bill! I saved an old message of yours
> when i posted a similar question and you had said one of the things to
> say was "The judge said it was either that or reform school." That was
> my first good laugh. I always enjoy the responses i got from you with
> these kind of questions. I dont know about throwing the soup in their
> lap though :-) I realize that i [...]49_14Jun200522:23:29-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 18195 93 20_Re: Any suggestions?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 15:09:20 -0400323_- Okay, it was like you said Bill- the family had saychel and they did not ask
me anything about where the kids go to school-they didnt bring up the
subject at all. It as a nice meal-the parents were nice and friendly and the
kids were cute. And that is the most exiting news i have to report today.
rivky [...]44_15Jun200515:09:20-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 18289 59 20_Re: Any suggestions?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:05:56 -0700554_iso-8859-1 I have to say, I have quite a different attitude about this. I LIKE when people ask me about homeschooling. I don't think they are intruding on my privacy or anything like that. To me it seems like an obvious question for someone to ask. I ask people questions about why they do things all the time - their internal motivations for things interest me. And rarely do people think I am being intrusive, though my husband got a bit nervous when I was recently talking to a guest about the reasons for his broken engagement (but as I pointed [...]44_15Jun200514:05:56-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 18349 80 20_Re: Any suggestions?14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:12:26 -0500595_ISO-8859-1 Avivah,
As it says in the Haggadah, there's asking and there's asking. In
Rivky's case, as she reports it, the woman couldnt care less about
homeschooling except to demonstrate why she was right and Rivky was a
lousy mom for doing it because her kids will end up scrounging through
dumpsters for a living. It is pointless getting into discussions with
people like that. It only increases sinas chinam and a lack of derekh
eretz. That is different from someone who is genuinely curious about it
and at least open to the idea that people may not all do the [...]49_15Jun200516:12:26-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 18430 106 20_Re: Any suggestions?14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:13:05 +0200496_us-ascii Rivky, benign indifference is your friend. Better than a no-holds-barred
confrontation that ends with a newspaper headline "Homeschooling Mom
Kills Hosts When Asked, "But What About Socialization?" ;)

Avivah, I get what you're saying. If someone doesn't understand why I
homeschool, they will never understand me. But when I moved to a new
community when ds was four, I thought I would take an ax to the 300th
person who said, "but what about socialization?". [...]46_16Jun200502:13:05+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 18537 274 17_Re: Any questions13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:31:51 -0700572_iso-8859-1 There aren't many times that I get such an optimally phrased question about why I homeschool, but I agree, it's definitely nice when people start off from a position of respecting you and your views.

But I haven't found most people to be critical even when they don't ask in that manner. There are people who clearly have an ax to grind and I reply as briefly as possible, and leave no room open for discussion. (Why do you hs? It works best for us. Change topic.) But otherwise, I like to respond definitively. Like, why do you homeschool? Because [...]44_15Jun200519:31:51-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 18812 23 20_Re: Any suggestions?12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:13:28 -0400515_us-ascii I just wanted to thank Malkie for making me laugh out loud on a day
when I really needed it!!

Thank you, NCK.

Yael

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
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a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG44_15Jun200523:13:28-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 18836 77 17_Re: Any questions12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:04:20 -0400449_iso-8859-1 Personally, I think I find it easier having had my kids in school till this year because I have the negative experiences of schooling to fall back on and my chanoch la'naar al pi darko reason comes from those experiences. I did have a teacher of 6 or 7th grade girls (can't remember which) agree with me that the kids who "get it" or finish right away are waiting for the rest of the class to catch up which is frustrating for them. [...]46_16Jun200506:04:20-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 18914 196 28_Re: homeschooling questions?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:45:56 EDT547_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/16/05 1:55:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> If I can't talk about things that matter to me, then I don't consider it
> much of a relationship and I can't have much of a desire to pursue it. Just
> too boring and unstimulating. MPO.
>

adrenaline junkie!

Yes, there is a certain thrill in being able to be "sharp" and the
conversations do help to clarify my positions to myself if not to others. and I grateful
for those opportunities on occasion. [...]37_16Jun200507:45:56EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 19111 321 17_Re: Any questions8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:28:17 -0500552_us-ascii Yes, those who easily grasp the material are kept back and waste their
time, while those who are struggling with the material feel pressured
and inadequate. That's why I really appreciate the individualization
that is possible with homeschooling.

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Caryn Lipson
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 5:04 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Any questions [...]40_16Jun200508:28:17-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 19433 105 28_Re: homeschooling questions?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 06:52:38 -0700573_iso-8859-1 >>Yes, there is a certain thrill in being able to be "sharp" and the conversations do help to clarify my positions to myself if not to others. and I grateful for those opportunities on occasion.<<

Just to clarify - I didn't mean to imply I need ongoing sharp and mentally stimulating conversation in every interaction I have. Not at all. But I do need to feel a certain comfortableness with people I like so that I can enjoy their company. Actually, if most of the conversations I had with friends were stimulating in the way that you referred to, I [...]44_16Jun200506:52:38-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 19539 467 28_Re: homeschooling questions?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:54:44 -0500633_us-ascii "I don't want clever conversation. I never want to work that hard."

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:46 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling questions?

In a message dated 6/16/05 1:55:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

If I can't talk about things that matter to me, then I don't consider it
much of a relationship and I can't have much of a desire to pursue it.
Just too boring and unstimulating. MPO. [...]40_16Jun200508:54:44-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 20007 29 28_Re: homeschooling questions?14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:57:41 -0500522_windows-1252 "I just want someone I can talk to. I want you just to use your car."

S Sloman wrote:

> “I don’t want clever conversation. I never want to work that hard.”
>
> **
>
>
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]49_16Jun200508:57:41-0500billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 20037 33 45_Re: Jewish Curriculum from www.arepublish.com12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:05:26 -0700776_us-ascii I sent this original post on erev Yom Tov........hopefully no one will be
bothered by the repetition. Has anyone used this curriculum or anything
from this particular website?

Any thoughts on it after seeing the website?

Thanks!

At 12:11 AM 6/12/2005, Rena Weisman wrote:
>Has anyone used this curriculum from www.arepublish.com?
>
>See it at: http://www.arepublish.com/curriculum.html
>
>
>Thanks!
>Rena W.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]41_16Jun200507:05:26-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 20071 37 20_hschooling questions15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:50:06 -0700395_- Rena,

I am with you 100%! I also think it is because of my age (just turned 50)
but I am bored with conversations from curiosity seekers about our school
choices. My energy is limited and I need to put all of it into actually
hschooling now. When I first hschooled my eldest in high school (almost 15
years ago) I was eager to share, but now I'll leave that to others. [...]47_16Jun200511:50:06-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 20109 151 27_Re: Homeschoolnig questions0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:32:45 EDT589_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/17/05 1:56:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Just to clarify - I didn't mean to imply I need ongoing sharp and mentally
> stimulating conversation in every interaction I have. Not at all. But I do
> need to feel a certain comfortableness with people I like so that I can enjoy
> their company. Actually, if most of the conversations I had with friends
> were stimulating in the way that you referred to, I would get worn out. I
> enjoy sharing thoughts with friends in a comfortable way, and it doesn't [...]37_17Jun200508:32:45EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 20261 110 34_Re: homeschooling questions, again0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:41:54 EDT354_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/17/05 1:56:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> knew he would be the perfect
> tutor for my kinderlach. When I told him we hschooled, he said, "Cool."
>
>

Exactly! Sometimes you just have an instinct as to who is going to be "cool"
and how they are going to respond. [...]37_17Jun200508:41:54EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 20372 120 27_Re: Homeschoolnig questions15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:30:42 -0700351_- Very true. So many parents are panic stricken at the thought of having
their children home all summer. Can't have that! My daughter, who is very
social, wants to go do Gan Izzy day camp, so I am letting her go for one
week. My son, (10) wants to spend that week alone with me. I am thrilled.
We're going to really enjoy each other. [...]47_17Jun200508:30:42-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 20493 31 24_natural jewish parenting6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:20:51 -0600328_US-ASCII Yasher Koach to Yael on her revival of NJP. I will camp out by my mail box
waiting for the new issue.

I really applaud your efforts as I know that you are also a homeschooler and
busy mom in general. NJP was the first and only place I've ever been
published (a small poem). That was such a thrill. [...]42_17Jun200510:20:51-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 20525 36 28_Re: homeschooling questions?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:39:04 -0400665_- >From: RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling questions?
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:45:56 EDT

>
>When we first took my son out of school and started to homeschool, I got a
>lot of questions and a lot of flak

Avivah, i think what Rena said right there is it for me. Perhaps there lies
the difference in our attitude about being confronted with questions. I dont
know what your experience has been with people's reactions to your
homeschooling, but for me, i have gotten, "flak" is putting it very mildly!
Rivky [...]44_17Jun200512:39:04-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 20562 38 28_Re: homeschooling questions?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:46:30 -0400708_- >From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling questions?
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 08:54:44 -0500
>
>"I don't want clever conversation. I never want to work that hard."

I'm not sure i want clever conversation either. Maybe i'm not that clever. I
dont have all the answers to the homeschooling questions. Homeschooling isnt
perfect. I have no answer when they bring up what isnt perfect about it,
except maybe to say that everything has it disadvantages and school isnt
perfect either. I have enough things to direct my energies toward, and i
dont [...]44_17Jun200512:46:30-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 20601 125 20_Re: Any suggestions?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:57:18 -0400677_- >From: Malkie Swidler
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Any suggestions?
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 02:13:05 +0200
>
>Rivky, benign indifference is your friend. Better than a no-holds-barred
>confrontation that ends with a newspaper headline "Homeschooling Mom Kills
>Hosts When Asked, "But What About Socialization?" ;)

Right!!!
>
>I homeschool, they will never understand me. But when I moved to a new
>community when ds was four, I thought I would take an ax to the 300th
>person who said, "but what about socialization?". [...]44_17Jun200512:57:18-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 20727 41 28_Re: natural jewish parenting12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 22:57:35 -0400570_us-ascii Shoshana,

Thank you so much for the very kind and encouraging words!!! :)

You are humble... the poem you wrote is so very beautiful, and it has
stayed with me since the first time I read it.

Yael

>Yasher Koach to Yael on her revival of NJP. I will camp out by my mail box
>waiting for the new issue.
>
>I really applaud your efforts as I know that you are also a homeschooler and
>busy mom in general. NJP was the first and only place I've ever been
>published (a small poem). That was such a thrill.
>
[...]44_18Jun200522:57:35-0400njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 20769 168 27_Re: Homeschoolnig questions11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:25:28 -0400602_- >From: Michelle Miller
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Homeschoolnig questions
>Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:30:42 -0700
>
>Very true. So many parents are panic stricken at the thought of having
>their children home all summer. Can't have that! My daughter, who is very
>social, wants to go do Gan Izzy day camp, so I am letting her go for one
>week. My son, (10) wants to spend that week alone with me. I am thrilled.
> We're going to really enjoy each other. [...]44_18Jun200523:25:28-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 20938 66 28_Re: natural jewish parenting12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 19 Jun 2005 06:44:47 -0400627_iso-8859-1 How do I get on the mailing list?
Caryn
cml613@hotmail.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Yael Resnick"
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] natural jewish parenting

> Shoshana,
>
> Thank you so much for the very kind and encouraging words!!! :)
>
> You are humble... the poem you wrote is so very beautiful, and it has
> stayed with me since the first time I read it.
>
> Yael
>
>
> >Yasher Koach to Yael on her revival of NJP. I will camp out by my mail
box
> [...]46_19Jun200506:44:47-0400caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 21005 31 28_Re: a comment on my own post11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 19 Jun 2005 12:53:15 -0400319_- >Anyway, it would seem to me that it is the parents of the kids in school
>who should want their kids home with them in the summer, and the
>homeschooling parents who would lean more toward thinking maybe their kids
>should go to camp.
>Rivky-who is not sure what her kids will be doing this summer. [...]44_19Jun200512:53:15-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 21037 51 44_need phone contacts for Israeli homeschooler13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 19 Jun 2005 16:43:04 -0700339_iso-8859-1 I posted quite a long time ago about a friend who is homeschooling in Israel. I spoke with her today, and she is going through a very challenging time. I emailed her Malkie's phone number at that time, and today she asked for it again. My hard drive crashed about six weeks ago so I no longer have it saved to my computer. [...]44_19Jun200516:43:04-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 21089 76 90_Re: RESPONSE TO MALKIE: RE: Curricula and stages of development: Academics for 5 year olds16_Russell J Hendel17_rjhendel@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 19 Jun 2005 20:51:46 -0400612_us-ascii On Thu, 2 Jun 2005 01:58:50 +0200 Malkie Swidler
writes:
> Russell,
>
Malkie
You wrote me this before Yom Tov--am just getting around to answering it
now. I had cited Rav Hirsch as stating you should do a little academics,
spirit and analytics at 5ish or so. Malkie, you wrote back,

> We are probably in agreement.
>
> The question is, how do you appropriately expose a young child to
> academics? I know an awful lot of four, five and six year olds. None
> are ready for conventional sit down academics, including my six year
[...]39_19Jun200520:51:46-0400rjhendel@JUNO.COM 21166 38 20_Re: Any suggestions?11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:19:07 -0700635_iso-8859-1 >>> I dont remember all the posts- are there list members
who have successfuly gotten shiduchim, gotten into sem, after being
homeschooled? I dont remembe specifically.<<<

Rivky,

Yes, there are. I don't know if my older girls technically count as getting
into seminary after being hschooled because they did go to high school, one
in ninth and one in tenth grade. But considering the applications want to
know where you went to school back to pre1A, and sometimes where your mother
and father went to school as well (or is that for shidduchim? I don't
remember) it is pertinent info. [...]42_19Jun200518:19:07-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 21205 64 16_Re: Summer camp?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:03:23 EDT341_US-ASCII Rivky:
You make a good point. Yes, I think that summer camp can have good benefits
for homeschoolers. I have not done it yet with my little ones, but you are
correct, it is a good option since there are no tests, grades, etc. and
socialization and a chance to learn new skills is the primary goal of such programs. [...]37_20Jun200509:03:23EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 21270 36 16_Re: Summer camp?6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:36:27 -0600343_US-ASCII We are tip-toeing into this area with my 6 yo son this summer. He is
starting a one-week art class (1-3:30 p.m.) at the local Jewish art center.
It is called Art in the Garden. There is no Jewish content so I'm not
concerned about mixed messages. But it is a Jewish environment which makes
him feel more comfortable. [...]42_20Jun200510:36:27-0600najova@EARTHLINK.NET 21307 35 35_Re: keeping cool (was Summer camp?)14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:29:46 +0200550_us-ascii On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:36:27 -0600 Zohari writes:

> Good luck to all! It is simply hard to keep kids happy and busy
> when it is
> so darn hot!
>
> Shoshana Z., Director - Camp Zohari

Hi Shoshana and all,
One of the things my kids really loved when it was hot and they were
small was "water tables". I took a very large bowl or basin for each
kid, filled it with cool water that was made bubbly with dish soap, put
it on a plastic kid sized table outside. Add water toys for [...]39_21Jun200500:29:46+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 21343 60 20_Re: Any suggestions?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:32:58 -0400733_- Well that's good. I'm glad things worked out. I wonder how things would have
been had your daughters been homeschooled for high school ????? Rivky

>From: Susan Lapin
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Any suggestions?
>Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:19:07 -0700
>
> >>> I dont remember all the posts- are there list members
>who have successfuly gotten shiduchim, gotten into sem, after being
>homeschooled? I dont remembe specifically.<<<
>
>Rivky,
>
>Yes, there are. I don't know if my older girls technically count as getting
>into seminary after being hschooled because they did [...]44_20Jun200519:32:58-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 21404 58 16_Re: Summer camp?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 19:36:22 -0400638_- I didnt think you sounded snobby, and your point is correct. I think a lot
of people do the camp routine for the same reason they send their kids to
school. The reason is, everybody does it-it is the thing to do. Rivky

>From: RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Summer camp?
>Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:03:23 EDT
>
>Rivky:
>You make a good point. Yes, I think that summer camp can have good benefits
>for homeschoolers. I have not done it yet with my little ones, but you are
>correct, it is a good [...]44_20Jun200519:36:22-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 21463 65 19_Wanna get together?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 22 Jun 2005 10:35:43 EDT696_US-ASCII I am posting on behalf of Wendy Bernstein, who is traveling from Florida to
Boston.

Her cell phone number is: 561-319-7263.

Wendy is stopping in Baltimore 6/22 and 6/23, Allentown Pennsyvlania, Monsey,
and Boston.

Anyone on Torch-D in these towns or nearby should contact Wendy for a
possible get together.

Thanks

Rena in Baltimore

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]37_22Jun200510:35:43EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 21529 46 27_mini-camp for homeschoolers17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Sun, 26 Jun 2005 20:35:44 -0400571_us-ascii Being that it has been so quiet, I thought I'd share with you what I
did last week.
I invited up four 8-9 grade girls from out of town for a couple of
days of learning and social interaction.
Among our morning activities was Chumash done in conjunction with a
writing workshop.

( We read about the meraglim and did an analysis of the arguments.
One day we looked at the Rashi about Kalev who managed to quiet the
people by pretending he shared their view, and then the girls worked
in pairs to "dress like the enemy" and make [...]38_26Jun200520:35:44-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 21576 84 48_Re: need phone contacts for Israeli homeschooler13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 27 Jun 2005 06:46:37 -0700603_iso-8859-1 I posted the message below a while ago, and didn't hear from anyone. Is everyone on vacation? Malkie S. and Louise, please email me with your phone numbers if you would be willing to have me pass them on to a struggling homeschooler in Israel.

Thanks,

Avivah

Avivah Werner wrote:
I posted quite a long time ago about a friend who is homeschooling in Israel. I spoke with her today, and she is going through a very challenging time. I emailed her Malkie's phone number at that time, and today she asked for it again. My hard drive crashed [...]44_27Jun200506:46:37-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 21661 82 48_Re: need phone contacts for Israeli homeschooler11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:59:55 -0400475_- BELIEVE ME I am NOT on vacation!!!!! I am busy as who knows what! I am
working on trying to get my teenage son into a yeshiva, i am trying to get
some type of homeschooling program/materials together for one of my
daughters, and we need to find another place to live as this apartment here
is not working out. My girls are doing the housework because mommy is too
busy with all of this.
Is anybody here on vacation? Wanna come and help me out? Rivky [...]44_27Jun200513:59:55-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 21744 65 31_Re: mini-camp for homeschoolers11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 27 Jun 2005 13:05:00 -0700607_iso-8859-1 Chana,

What a great idea! Both having them and the creative learning. Were the
other girls hschooled or from school backgrounds? One summer we had up about
eight twelve year old girls, but it was pure fun - no (straightfoward)
learning. What response did you get from the girls?

Susan

Being that it has been so quiet, I thought I'd share with you what I
did last week.
I invited up four 8-9 grade girls from out of town for a couple of
days of learning and social interaction.
Among our morning activities was Chumash done in conjunction with a
[...]42_27Jun200513:05:00-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 21810 59 19_Re: Hebrew workbook18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Mon, 27 Jun 2005 22:27:59 -0400653_us-ascii bs'd
A veteran teacher of Hebrew language recommends
the Tal-Am materials for beginners (K,1).
See www.talam.org

kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman

On 6/8/2005 4:46 PM, Barbara Mazor wrote:
> Shoshana -
>
>
>>Right now we are using Mavo L'Kriah and a reading
>>primer from Behrman House.
>>But the Behrman one depends a great deal on writing
>>and we are just not
>>there yet. What might you suggest in place of
>>these?
>
>
> Are you just looking for something to use for learning
> how to read? Try this one from Feldheim "Step-By-Step"
> by Esti Wolf. www.feldheim.com
>
[...]41_27Jun200522:27:59-0400bdickman@LUCENT.COM 21870 71 19_Re: Hebrew workbook17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:29:06 -0400671_us-ascii The tal am program is fabulous.. and fabulously pricey. Also includes
going for mandatory teacher training...

>bs'd
>A veteran teacher of Hebrew language recommends
>the Tal-Am materials for beginners (K,1).
>See www.talam.org
>
> kol tuv,
> Benzion Dickman
>
>On 6/8/2005 4:46 PM, Barbara Mazor wrote:
>> Shoshana -
>>
>>
>>>Right now we are using Mavo L'Kriah and a reading
>>>primer from Behrman House.
>>>But the Behrman one depends a great deal on writing
>>>and we are just not
>>>there yet. What might you suggest in place of
>>>these?
>>
>>
>> Are you just looking for something [...]38_28Jun200506:29:06-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 21942 63 15_getting nervous15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 05:38:18 -0700527_iso-8859-1 BS"D

Hi all,
I hope everyone is enjoying the warmer weather. I need some chizuk I guess. Dd1 (4 1/2, will be 5 in October) will be starting with homeschooling in the fall (she's going to camp with her preschool friends this summer). I'm not planning any heavy duty curriculum, but I am going to do the Sonlight Pre-K program, and perhaps enrich a little with a phonics, perhaps a math (haven't decided that yet) and davening, maybe learning the alef-beit and other limudei kodesh as they come up etc. [...]40_28Jun200505:38:18-0700drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 22006 116 19_Re: Hebrew workbook13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:03:52 -0700713_iso-8859-1 Also requires the teacher be fluent in Hebrew and is really designed for classroom use, not for an individual. - and is unavailable for single purchase.

Barb.

Chana Silberstein wrote:The tal am program is fabulous.. and fabulously pricey. Also includes
going for mandatory teacher training...

>bs'd
>A veteran teacher of Hebrew language recommends
>the Tal-Am materials for beginners (K,1).
>See www.talam.org
>
> kol tuv,
> Benzion Dickman
>
>On 6/8/2005 4:46 PM, Barbara Mazor wrote:
>> Shoshana -
>>
>>
>>>Right now we are using Mavo L'Kriah and a reading
>>>primer from Behrman House.
>>>But the Behrman one [...]41_28Jun200510:03:52-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 22123 55 6_crafts13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:06:28 -0700587_iso-8859-1 >> we have made 4 trips to Michael's for craft supplies (too bad I can't order them in bulk...or can I?). <<

Try www.classroomdirect.com

Barb.

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/41_28Jun200510:06:28-0700barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 22179 197 19_Re: getting nervous17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:19:33 -0400558_us-ascii Here's what I found helpful:
Set a time each day for learning ( I always liked doing it in the
AM, around 9:30 or 10:00, when everyone was fed but still quite
rested). Bear in mind that the formal stuff at this age should not
take you more than a half hour a day, if that. Perhaps your husband
can do 10 minutes or so regularly with her in the evenings (10
minutes of one-on-one time goes a long way at this age) or you can
set up some "rituals" or routines to incorporate
curriculum/structure into your day... a little [...]38_28Jun200512:19:33-0400cs32@CORNELL.EDU 22377 289 19_Re: getting nervous14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 21:36:03 -0500514_iso-8859-1 Shalom Nicole,

Let me tell you about myself first so you can see how we relate. I have a DS who is 4 Y.O., another son who will be two in Sept and a baby due in July. I plan on beginning a kindergarten program with my DS in late August or early Sept. I've never put the boys in daycare or preschool so it's a 24/7 job for me which I consider a bracha even with the challenges.
If your daughter's schooling is postponed for a little while due to the move I don't think it'll be a problem. [...]45_28Jun200521:36:03-0500sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 22667 173 54_OT: Intensive Doula Training for Orthodox Jewish Women16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 17:30:40 -0400365_iso-8859-1 For those looking for more education themselves (rather than their kids)! I know the woman running it, and I think this is a very valuable thing that she is offering to the Jewish community at large. There is really a big need for observant doulas (whether anyone on this list would be able to live in MA for 8 weeks is, perhaps, another story....) [...]50_28Jun200517:30:40-0400zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 22841 69 19_Re: getting nervous15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:42:19 -0700561_iso-8859-1 I'm expecting in a couple of weeks, and can really
sympathize with your plight, though I have just one 6
y/o, so it's not as difficult.

One thing I'm doing now is preparing a little
beforehand. I printed out 3 months worth of parsha
pages and placed them in a folder, so we can review
parsha every week. I'll have a kriya book ready to
go. And I'm getting a teacher lesson planning book so
I can roughly map out a plan for each week for English
studies. Once a month, I figure I'll plan out field
trips and art [...]45_28Jun200511:42:19-0700alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 22911 183 48_Re: need phone contacts for Israeli homeschooler14_Laya B Jackson17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 07:00:42 +0200344_us-ascii There is a homeschool list on yahoo that is called "Israel Homeschool".
I can give you an email address from someone else on that list so she can
sign up and connect in Israel. (I'm currently on the road in the US
again). Or, if she can navigate the internet, she can do a search of
yahoo groups and sign up that way. [...]39_28Jun200507:00:42+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 23095 126 58_Re: OT: Intensive Doula Training for Orthodox Jewish Women13_gilla s weiss20_weissfambh@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:01:23 -0700573_iso-8859-1 As a mother of k"H 7 children 5 of whom were born at home I definitely agree that the jewish community in general needs observant doulas, and I think it is definitely time for observant women to be more involved in all aspects of childbirth. We all have some very famous ancestors who were amazing midwives!!! I just feel that becoming a Douala is not particularly
suited to women who have not yet experienced childbirth themselves so it's not really for young homeschoolers, and for someone married with kids leaving them for 8 weeks to go to MA is not [...]42_29Jun200511:01:23-0700weissfambh@YAHOO.COM 23222 154 58_Re: OT: Intensive Doula Training for Orthodox Jewish Women13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:15:44 -0700542_iso-8859-1 Aren't you lucky, Gilla, to have known about homebirth in time to have five of your children that way?!!

I also think that it is preferable to have a doula who has had children, but there are midwives and doulas who are very good and are either unmarried or childless. When I trained to be a doula, way back in 1996 :)), I did have a single young lady in my class (I think she was the only one younger than me there). I did a ten month course at Misgav Ladach, a maternity hospital in Israel that unfortunately closed. [...]44_29Jun200512:15:44-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 23377 312 19_Re: getting nervous11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:08:42 -0700586_iso-8859-1 Nicole,

First, take a deep breath. One of the absolutely wonderful things about
hschooling is that it doesn't have to start the day after Labor Day nor does
it have to take off for public holidays. It can fit to your schedule. I
would think that Sonlight will fit right in in a new baby because it is
heavily based on reading together, which fits in with nursing. There will be
a lot of learning opportunities all around. You need to figure out your own
personality and whether you will be calmer with learning fitting in to
whatever you are [...]42_29Jun200517:08:42-0700suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 23690 111 11_Re: Doulas?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:09:16 EDT429_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/30/05 1:55:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> I just feel that becoming a Douala is not particularly
> suited to women who have not yet experienced childbirth themselves so it's
> not really for young homeschoolers, and for someone married with kids leaving
> them for 8 weeks to go to MA is not really realistic unless ofcourse you live
> nearby [...]37_30Jun200509:09:16EDTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 23802 50 10_Re: Doulas14_Moriah Chesler17_merilyn@ABSOL.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:52:24 -0400577_- BS"D

Sorry for my absence so long.

Regarding doulas, B"H, I have had the merit of hiring the services of doulas
for each and every natural birth.

I asked a shaila of my Rav regarding what to do on Shabbos. My Rav
advised me that it is better to hire a gentile doula than a Jewish doula
to minimize the JEwish doula transgressing Shabbos/Yom Tov if birth is imminent
on Shabbos/Yom Tov.
So, even if one has a very competent JEwish doula, it is
recomemnded that she has a backup doula (most doulas have backups)
who's not Jewish. [...]39_30Jun200511:52:24-0400merilyn@ABSOL.COM 23853 105 19_Re: getting nervous11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:57:21 -0400539_- Let me get this straight. You have a toddler that will be turning 2, and you
have a 4 1/2 year old that you are about to homeschool who will be 5 IY'H,
and you are trying to sell your house and move, and you are asking how to
homeschool in this situation.
I think you would have enough stress even if you werent trying to
homeschool! Just taking care of the kids, and do all you have to do, without
worrying about education, would be a handful. Why does "homeschooling" have
to be a concern right now? Were you [...]44_30Jun200515:57:21-0400rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 23959 198 7_article13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:21:05 -0700303_iso-8859-1 I wrote an article for our local frummie publication that just came out, and since this morning a couple of homeschoolers called to tell me that they appreciated it, I thought I would share it with the list with the hope that there will be something that you get chizuk or support from. [...]44_30Jun200514:21:05-0700avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 24158 54 11_Re: Doulas?15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:16:16 -0700342_iso-8859-1 Rena, I really agree with you on this one. And even
for older mothers whose children are gone, I would
question whether most frum women would want to leave
their husbands for a total of 8 Shabbosim!! That's a
lot of time to ask your husband to be self sufficient
and alone for Shabbos ... just another thought. [...]45_30Jun200519:16:16-0700alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM