1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d February 2005 2 75 24_Re: listowner volunteer?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:22:15 -0500480_us-ascii Thanks so much for considering helping. You're right--it's definitely
not something to take on if you have unreliable computer access.

Moving to Yahoo wouldn't really help, because someone would still have
to manage the whole thing.

I hope I didn't overemphasize the difficulty of the tasks. Shamash is
extremely responsive and helpful with any problems we encounter, and I'd
be available to help make the transition as smooth as possible. [...]39_4Feb200509:22:15-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 78 92 24_Re: listowner volunteer?12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:33:10 -0500588_US-ASCII If we were to move over to Yahoo, I would be willing to do it. I own
other Yahoo lists, so It will be easy for me to keep up. Yahoo makes
it easy to have many moderators, as well as more than one listowner.

Judith

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:22:15 -0500, S Sloman wrote:
> Thanks so much for considering helping. You're right--it's definitely
> not something to take on if you have unreliable computer access.
>
> Moving to Yahoo wouldn't really help, because someone would still have
> to manage the whole thing.
>
> [...]43_4Feb200512:33:10-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 171 38 24_Re: listowner volunteer?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:46:32 -0500494_us-ascii Is it possible to do without ads? I think there is an email version
that doesn't have attached advertising.

Because the ads were always one of my big objections to Yahoo groups.

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Judith Cohen
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 12:33 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] listowner volunteer? [...]39_4Feb200513:46:32-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 210 24 24_Re: listowner volunteer?16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:28:36 -0500599_iso-8859-1 I'd be willing to take on a third of the job, if you still need people. I
like your thinking, Shoshana--really trying to find ways to make it work!

Shabbat Shalom,

Ellen in Boston
in our fifth year of homeschooling Batsheva (9), Chana (7) and Penina B. (2)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]49_4Feb200514:28:36-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 235 50 24_Re: listowner volunteer?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:16:57 -0500596_us-ascii Thank you. I have someone else who is also considering taking on a
partial job, so maybe you could work together. Let me see what I can
work out.

-Shoshi

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of ZagorskyGoldberg
Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 2:29 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] listowner volunteer?

I'd be willing to take on a third of the job, if you still need people.
I
like your thinking, Shoshana--really trying to find ways to make it
work! [...]39_6Feb200510:16:57-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 286 37 24_Wiki - Please contribute12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:22:33 -0500557_US-ASCII So far there has been talk but nothing concrete about a final place
for a collaborative website.

I have been slowly putting stuff on my Wiki but I could use feedback
and input. If/when we settle on another forum for the group web site,
it is easy to copy from this Wiki to another. So if you wanted to
help build a Wiki that is geared toward Torah based Jewish
homeschooling please visit this site and help me add and edit the
content. Its an open book... feel free to write what you would like
to have seen as you [...]43_6Feb200521:22:33-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 324 65 28_Re: Wiki - Please contribute11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:08:17 -0500543_- Judith, i am now on a dumb "15 minute computer" at the library, because our
computer is at the repair shop AGAIN!!!!! I am very interested in this
homeshooling website idea, as i was the one who suggested it, and still feel
strongly about it. I did take a look at your wiki website and was very
exited. I dont exactly know "how" to add content, and i am very bogged down
with things at the moment, so little time to think about what i'd like on
this website. However, please be patient, because i'd like to think of a [...]43_7Feb200515:08:17-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 390 77 28_Re: Wiki - Please contribute13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:06:06 -0800602_us-ascii I didn't realize the site was up working again. It looks like a good start. Thanks.

Barb.

Judith Cohen wrote:
So far there has been talk but nothing concrete about a final place
for a collaborative website.

I have been slowly putting stuff on my Wiki but I could use feedback
and input. If/when we settle on another forum for the group web site,
it is easy to copy from this Wiki to another. So if you wanted to
help build a Wiki that is geared toward Torah based Jewish
homeschooling please visit this site and help me add [...]40_7Feb200516:06:06-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 468 69 28_Re: Wiki - Please contribute12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 19:23:50 -0500520_US-ASCII For those that are interested in adding to the Wiki here are the
barest of minimum instructions you need to add to a page.
You need to sign on, its free. The you go to the page you want to
edit, and click on the 'EditText of this Page' link towards the bottom
of the page, or the balloon on the upper right of the page. Then you
can type or paste text directly into the edit box. You can just write
in plain text if you don't feel up to figuring out how to format.
Someone can fix the [...]43_7Feb200519:23:50-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 538 29 4_Wiki12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:25:04 -0500344_US-ASCII Moriah,

Thanks for adding the links to the site. I added a new page for
Halachic basis for homeschooling our children that you may want to
use. I have no expertise in that matter.

Please come visit the site and help build it into a great resource.
And feel free to fix any and all of my spelling mistakes;) [...]43_8Feb200517:25:04-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 568 44 23_some links to resources0_17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:30:38 -0500833_us-ascii Chodesh tov,
It's great to be in Adar, may you all experience all the joy available in
this month.
I thought this might have some nice resouces for some people on this
list, I got them from another homeschool list.
As always, take what works and leave the rest behind.

Homeschool Zone
http://www.homeschoolzone.com/
Homeschool FAQ
http://www.homeschoolzone.com/start.htm
Faces of Home Education
http://www.homeschoolzone.com/faces/
Homeschool Local Support - state-by-state listings
http://www.homeschoolzone.com/yp/indexus.htm
To unsubscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
homeschoolzone-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Questions, Ideas & comments, write to:
homeschoolzone@yahoogroups.com
Recipes, Crafts, Pets, Home Ed and more at:
http://pinksunrise.com/form1.htm [...]39_10Feb200511:30:38-0500tolife18@JUNO.COM 613 68 27_Re: some links to resources8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 15:35:38 -0500704_us-ascii It IS good to be in Adar! I am always so excited at this time of year!
It brings on an irrational exuberance! May each of you be blessed!

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of tolife18@JUNO.COM
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 11:31 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] some links to resources

Chodesh tov,
It's great to be in Adar, may you all experience all the joy available
in
this month.
I thought this might have some nice resouces for some people on this
list, I got them from another homeschool list.
As always, [...]40_10Feb200515:35:38-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 682 59 60_Has anyone started homeschooling only for financial reasons?13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:58:16 -0800427_us-ascii Nicole -

First of all I don't think it is a politically incorrect question at all.

Finances can be a big part of why people may choose to hs. However, IMO, I don't think a financial motivation by itself is enough. I think you really have to believe in hsing and that the choice to do so is the best possible choice for you and your family. ... And finances may be a part of that decision, for sure. [...]41_11Feb200508:58:16-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 742 74 60_Has anyone started homeschooling only for financial reasons?15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 06:41:36 -0800293_us-ascii BS"D

Hi all,
I have been a lurker on this list for some time now. My older daughter Gavriela Chana is 4 1/2 and currently in pre-K at a local girls' day school. She is thus far very happy, flourishing, well loved by her Morah and I am quite pleased with the situation. [...]40_11Feb200506:41:36-0800drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 817 387 64_Re: Has anyone started homeschooling only for financial reasons?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:11:04 -0500497_us-ascii Don't worry about flames, Nicole. Not allowed!

And, I agree with Barbara, the question is not politically incorrect.
Obviously we all need to weigh many different factors to make good
judgments about what's best for our particular current family situation.

I also agree with Barbara that financial considerations ALONE are
probably not the best basis for embarking on the adventure of
homeschooling. But they certainly do play a role, one way or the other. [...]40_11Feb200512:11:04-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 1205 104 64_Re: Has anyone started homeschooling only for financial reasons?18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 12:59:09 -0500556_us-ascii bs'd
We had a situation where we had to spend winters in
Florida for the kids' health (ear infections, strep,
antibiotics non-stop). The (then) 4-year old was
doing fine in school, but at the beginning of the
year I made an agreement with the school that
we would not owe tuition for the months she was in
Florida. We did this for a few years, and I filed
HS papers with my district when she was 6 to keep
it formal, legal, and to have a bargaining lever
with the school. I could just take her out to HS
full [...]41_11Feb200512:59:09-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 1310 144 64_Re: Has anyone started homeschooling only for financial reasons?16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:06:22 -0500543_iso-8859-1 Hi Nicole,

Just wondering: do you know that you would be able to get a job that would cover all those expenses? We've figured it out that, once we pay for two day school tuitions and one day care, a work wardrobe for me, transportation, and the much increased food costs b/c we would buy a lot more prepared foods, well, once we subtracted all that from a post-tax salary for me, we figured we would make the same small amount that I make now by taking a few freelance jobs here and there (fyi: I have a master's degree [...]50_13Feb200500:06:22-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 1455 159 64_Re: Has anyone started homeschooling only for financial reasons?14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 02:07:47 -0600292_iso-8859-1 Nicole,

Just a thought but perhaps if you do need to start homeschooling, it would be easier to take your daughter out of school now for it may be more difficult a year or two from now.

Mandy
Tovias ( 4 ) Nathaniel (16 mo ) and one on the way in July :-) B"H [...]45_13Feb200502:07:47-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 1615 26 22_Curriculum from Israel19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:12:39 GMT376_- Hi, I posted recently about getting workbooks from Israel and since I am still waiting for some suggestions I figured I would ask again! Does anyone have any titles of books and/or workbooks that they found useful, from the Holy Land that they would reccomend? I am interested in ideas suitable for 6th grade level, 5th, and just starting to read. All topics are fine. [...]39_13Feb200523:12:39GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 1642 46 26_Re: Curriculum from Israel14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:06:25 +0200603_us-ascii The best thing to do is to be in Israel around early September and see
what you like (there are also few places where you can always pick up
workbooks, no matter what time of year). Is there anything in particular
that you are looking for?

Malkie of Israel

malkiadler@juno.com wrote:
> Hi, I posted recently about getting workbooks from Israel and since I am still waiting for some suggestions I figured I would ask again! Does anyone have any titles of books and/or workbooks that they found useful, from the Holy Land that they would reccomend? I am interested [...]46_14Feb200510:06:25+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 1689 38 26_Re: Curriculum from Israel10_Louise Fox20_louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:07:53 +0200360_us-ascii I'm guessing that the reason you haven't had any replies from those of
us in Israel is that we seem to be mostly unschool-types.

As far as I've been able to tell, the Israeli workbooks that they use in
schools are most deathly dull.....

Sorry not to be able to help in this,
Louise
in Israel
Mum to 4 unschooled kids [...]42_14Feb200516:07:53+0200louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM 1728 207 36_homeschooling for financial reasons?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 11:04:57 EST526_US-ASCII I have to put in my 2 cents here. Homeschooling can be as expensive or as
cheap as you wish. The problem initially though is figuring out which
curriculum/books/tapes/games/projects/tools that you are going to want to use, and
where to find them, how much time/effort do you want to put in to searching on
E-bay, other message boards for used materials that meet your needs. and this
process of trial and error costs $ and takes time, there is a learnnig curve to
being a homeschooling family. [...]37_14Feb200511:04:57ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 1936 49 26_Re: Curriculum from Israel12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:54:44 -0500422_US-ASCII When I was in Israel a few months ago I went to a book store in Malcha
Mall (Jerusalem) called Tamir Sefer, they sell school books, they have
a back room with books for each grade. Usually the people just give
them the list and they pick out the books, but they were really
helpful and let me brows their shelves. I was looking for 1st grade
stuff so I cant give you any specific suggestions. [...]44_14Feb200514:54:44-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 1986 32 26_Re: Curriculum from Israel14_Devora Farrell22_dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:46:03 -0500459_iso-8859-1 > When I was in Israel a few months ago I went to a book store in Malcha
> Mall (Jerusalem) called Tamir Sefer, they sell school books, they have
> a back room with books for each grade. Usually the people just give
> them the list and they pick out the books, but they were really
> helpful and let me brows their shelves. I was looking for 1st grade
> stuff so I cant give you any specific suggestions.
>
> Judith Cohen [...]44_14Feb200519:46:03-0500dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM 2019 26 26_Re: Curriculum from Israel19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 03:14:06 GMT497_- Hi, Malkie, I won't be in Israel but my sister who lives there is coming back to the states for a wedding in less than two weeks so I have this nice opportunity to get "stuff from Israel" which, as Louise put it, may be pretty boring, but I guess the grass is always greener on the other side! What I am looking for really, is some sort of book that my 11 year old can use to read interesting stories in hebrew and answer some questions to see if she got it, and ditto for the 10 year old. [...]39_15Feb200503:14:06GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 2046 98 22_Re: hebrew curriculum?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 10:30:42 EST324_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/15/05 1:59:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> What I am looking for really, is some sort of book that my 11 year old can
> use to read interesting stories in hebrew and answer some questions to see if
> she got it, and ditto for the 10 year old. I [...]37_15Feb200510:30:42ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 2145 114 60_Has anyone started homeschooling only for financial reasons?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:12:37 -0800556_us-ascii Hi, Nicole,

Don't worry about flames or being politically incorrect. Where should you ask a question like this if not on a homeschooling list??

I personally wouldn't recommend homeschooling only for financial reasons, especially since your daughter is so happy where she is. If you did pull her out for that reason, it is very likely you would constantly be doubting yourself and would have an idealized image of the school environment she left behind. Every time you had a hard day, you would be ready to run to re-enroll her. [...]44_15Feb200509:12:37-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 2260 102 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 05:35:47 -0800335_us-ascii Thank you all so much for your responses. You have given me a lot to think about. I think Avivah's post hit the nail squarely on the head, so to speak. She is correct. I desperately do NOT want to leave my children, especially with a newborn on the way. This whole thing is giving me agita (is that the right spelling?!) [...]40_16Feb200505:35:47-0800drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 2363 24 22_Re: hebrew curriculum?19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:14:33 GMT393_- Thanks, Rena, I like your idea about the hebrew newspaper as well as the Ko asu chachameinu. I remember having to read them in school but the idea of using them just didn't occur to me! I am hoping that reading hebrew stories etc. will get my girls more "into" the whole limudey kodesh scene-we have not been focusing on it enough and this might be the ticket to regain their interest. [...]39_16Feb200514:14:33GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 2388 28 20_keyboarding software15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:40:16 -0700742_- Hello All,

Could anyone recommend a keyboarding/typing software program that they were
pleased with? My 10 year old really wants to learn and I finally think he
is ready.

Thanks,
Michelle

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]47_15Feb200513:40:16-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 2417 119 22_Re: hebrew curriculum?11_Rick Dinitz16_dinitz@TIBCO.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:25:37 -08000_38_15Feb200516:25:37-0800dinitz@TIBCO.COM 2537 46 24_Re: keyboarding software18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:02:44 -0500815_us-ascii bs'd
My daughter loved both the Jump Start Typing and
the Mavis Beacon programs. Both are adaptive
and are fun.

Benzion Dickman

On 2/15/2005 3:40 PM, Michelle Miller wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Could anyone recommend a keyboarding/typing software program that they were
> pleased with? My 10 year old really wants to learn and I finally think he
> is ready.
>
> Thanks,
> Michelle
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
> Shamash: The Jewish [...]41_16Feb200512:02:44-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 2584 34 24_Re: keyboarding software12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:56:18 -0500542_us-ascii There's an entertaining (slightly wacky) program called Kids' Typing,
which we recently took out of our local library. My 10, 8, and 4 year
olds all had fun and made quick progress with it. Lessons are
tailored to each child's level as they go. (Publisher is Sierra
Originals.)

Yael

>Hello All,
>
>Could anyone recommend a keyboarding/typing software program that
>they were pleased with? My 10 year old really wants to learn and I
>finally think he is ready.
>
>Thanks,
>Michelle [...]44_16Feb200512:56:18-0500njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 2619 515 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:52:50 -0600379_iso-8859-1 Nicole,

A couple of things you said hit home with me. As far as one's patience being where it should be I don't think there are too many mothers in our situation who always keeps their patience. It takes much work and self improvement. Remembering that raising children isn't just for the generation we see but for many generations to come helps at times. [...]45_16Feb200513:52:50-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 3135 414 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:12:10 -0500746_us-ascii Does anyone know of a frum family that has homeschooled 8-10 children
with no outside help?

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Mandy Oeschger
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 2:53 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons

Nicole,

A couple of things you said hit home with me. As far as one's
patience being where it should be I don't think there are too many
mothers in our situation who always keeps their patience. It takes much
work and self improvement. Remembering that raising children isn't just
for the generation [...]40_16Feb200520:12:10-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 3550 437 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:33:30 -0600418_iso-8859-1 Shoshana,

What's wrong with that?? If we had 10 children, there would be no one here to help us. We'd do it ourselves. Please explain to me how it is so unusual? I really don't understand. Thanks.
Mandy

----- Original Message -----
From: S Sloman
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons [...]45_16Feb200519:33:30-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 3988 24 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:29:05 GMT514_- I don't have 8 kids but will 7 do?! I don't have cleaning help or tutors (but my son is in school half day). I don't think anyone would refuse outside help unless there were financial considerations (for the cleaning part, after all, most people, I should think, would be glad to hand over bathroom cleaning rights). But I would totally understand not hiring tutors even if money were not an issue. I guess the point is that we have to make the best of our situations and manage to the best of our ability. [...]39_17Feb200502:29:05GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 4013 23 22_Re: hebrew curriculum?19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:36:06 GMT294_- I liked the hebrew map idea and will try to get hold of a street map of yerushalayim like you suggested, Rick. I can see my kids enjoying finding streets with names they might be familiar with and then my husband telling them lots of stories that he knows associated with them.
Malki [...]39_17Feb200502:36:06GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 4037 38 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Thu, 17 Feb 2005 02:29:16 -0500580_- BS"D

I second Mandy's post on learning along with the kids and getting little
outside help.

Well, I've come a long way myself. I remmeber being nervous about it
about 5 years ago, maybe, when my oldest was about 3. I sticked with
hs-ing, love it, live it, adjusting, changing, and truly believe that HaShem
gives mothers more courage as they have more children to do the things that
they thought are impossible for them to do. There's so much I want to do
still, and I'm engaging help from my family as I go along. The kids are
extremely [...]47_17Feb200502:29:16-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 4076 67 58_Re: TORCH-D Digest - 16 Feb 2005 to 17 Feb 2005 (#2005-41)0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:21:23 EST604_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/17/05 1:59:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> keyboarding/typing software program

my 8 y.o. daughter is enjoying Mavis Beacon teaches typing very much. This
is one of the most well known programs and for good reason. Tracks error
rate/words per minute too....printable certificates. I don't know a huge amount
about it, cuz I don't see it much, but I know that she goes to the computer, puts
it in, clicks on a lesson and does what she needs to do. She wanted to do
this, found the CD in a pile of software on a [...]37_18Feb200500:21:23ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 4144 491 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:22:25 -0500634_us-ascii When did I say there was anything wrong with it?

I am just asking an actual question-DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A FRUM FAMILY
THAT HAS HOMESCHOOLED 8-10 CHILDREN WITH NO OUTSIDE HELP?

Your example is totally hypothetical-IF we had.then we WOULD. Do you
know of an actual case?

Shabbat Shalom,
Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Mandy Oeschger
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:34 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons [...]40_18Feb200510:22:25-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 4636 82 30_online humor (hey, it's Adar!)0_17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 05:43:10 -0500409_us-ascii Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light
bulb?

A: 1,331:

1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light
bulb
has been changed

14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light
bulb could have been changed differently.

7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. [...]39_18Feb200505:43:10-0500tolife18@JUNO.COM 4719 60 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:24:33 -0500551_us-ascii I am very pleased to hear of your situation.

Do you mean to say you are actively homeschooling six children, and the
seventh goes to school half-day and homeschools the rest?

How old are your kids again?

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of malkiadler@juno.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:29 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons [...]40_18Feb200510:24:33-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 4780 108 34_Re: online humor (hey, it's Adar!)8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:39:21 -0500589_us-ascii I dispute the total, because a lot of people will end up falling into
more than one category (for example, sharing experiences and also
defending the light bulb discussion).

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of tolife18@JUNO.COM
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:43 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] online humor (hey, it's Adar!)

Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a
light
bulb? [...]40_18Feb200510:39:21-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 4889 282 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 07:53:29 -0800522_us-ascii I told my husband that homeschooling six kids on our own isn't a big deal, that we have to have at least 8 - 10 to have a decent size family, and here comes your request to prove it! :) (Read this very tongue in cheek!)

Oh, well - for those few souls interested, we homeschool our small family of six children with no outside tutors or cleaning help. (Though I agree with Malki on this one, I wouldn't mind if someone took over that part of the job.) And I will try to share my recent thoughts on why [...]44_18Feb200507:53:29-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 5172 505 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:58:54 -0600406_iso-8859-1 Yep. I know of two women. One with 8 children and one with 10 and hoping for more! They are truly amazing women. I feel ashamed when I'm overwhelmed with two boys and a baby on the way LOL.

~Mandy

----- Original Message -----
From: S Sloman
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons [...]45_18Feb200510:58:54-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 5678 790 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:01:03 -0500515_us-ascii You should get them on our list!

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Mandy Oeschger
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 11:59 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons

Yep. I know of two women. One with 8 children and one with 10 and
hoping for more! They are truly amazing women. I feel ashamed when I'm
overwhelmed with two boys and a baby on the way LOL. [...]40_18Feb200514:01:03-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 6469 555 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 11:06:13 -0500362_iso-8859-1 How do you homeschool/unschool the Judaic studies - Chumash, Rashi, Ivrit, Navi, Dinim, etc.? I'd like my daughter to get in-depth knowledge, not the superficial understanding of the pshat and a few miforshim like I did for 12 years of "good" yeshivas. I don't have the time (or patience) to sit and teach, either. Money for tutors is not there. [...]46_18Feb200511:06:13-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 7025 57 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons11_Rick Dinitz16_dinitz@TIBCO.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:37:21 -08000_38_18Feb200509:37:21-0800dinitz@TIBCO.COM 7083 77 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:49:44 -0800565_us-ascii I just HAD to reply to this one, because I can really
relate. Currently, I have, kayn ayin hora, one child
and one on the way in July, I"H.

Before I moved to CA and decided to homeschool, my
kiddo was in a cheder in St. Louis. The principal of
his school was the mother of B"H 14 children. She was
also one of those women who remembered everyone's
birthday, wrote thank you notes (on time, no less! :)
) and cooked gourmet meals on Shabbos. She also has
the middos of your average angel. Truly an incredible
woman. I [...]45_18Feb200512:49:44-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 7161 60 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:05:30 -0800316_us-ascii This is SO true - I've had to daaven a couple of times
this erev Shabbos, since I have about 18 people coming
for dinner. I figure between Hashem and a sense of
humor, it'll all be ok ....

Glad to hear you get more courage with each child,
because I could use a little more bravery! [...]45_18Feb200514:05:30-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 7222 23 16_starting trouble11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:59:29 -0500613_- The light bulb has been changed.
Rivky

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG44_18Feb200515:59:29-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 7246 68 41_advantages of independently homeschooling13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 18:17:21 -0800357_us-ascii I said I would share some recent thoughts I had on the disadvantages of group homeschooling, so here goes. One caveat - please don't think that I am saying that if someone's child is in a group, it is a negative thing. Obviously, we have to find what works for our child. I am sharing my thoughts on an advantage we may not recognize as such. [...]44_19Feb200518:17:21-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 7315 52 12_outside help6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:20:37 -0700397_US-ASCII This whole discussion is very apropos (sp?) for me at the moment. I am at
home with an almost 6yo boy, 3yo girl, and 1yo boy/olympic climber. My
older son is taking off with reading, handwriting, math (singapore),
coloring and legos. My 3 yo is somewhat lost in the middle, and the baby
spends all of his time trying to scale every piece of furniture in the house
:-) [...]42_19Feb200519:20:37-0700najova@EARTHLINK.NET 7368 322 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:54:10 -0500570_us-ascii Ha! I don't know WHERE to start telling you what's wrong with THAT! :-D

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rick Dinitz
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 12:37 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons

Maaseh avotenu [an actual case] -- Yaakov, Leah, Rachel, Bilhah &
Zilpah together homeschooled at least 13 children. (A midrash indicates
no less than 24 children.) [...]40_20Feb200507:54:10-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 7691 189 19_Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:56:19 -0500524_us-ascii Regarding Rivky's recent lightbulb change, I just want to be sure a
proper shailah was asked?

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG40_20Feb200507:56:19-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 7881 24 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM29_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:10:55 GMT702_- Right, but I can't in all honesty count the five month old, can I?
My kids are girl 11.5,girl 10.5 boy 8.5 boy 6.5 girl,4.5 and boy 2 and then the baby.
Malki

___________________________________________________________________
Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand.
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]39_20Feb200515:10:55GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 7906 96 16_Re: outside help11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 10:05:03 -0500536_- I'm trying to get a picture of what is going on there. I am picturing you
trying to sit with your 6 year old doing reading practice, math, and
handwriting, with the 3 year old doing his own thing, and the baby climbing
over you and the furniture. Maybe you are doing too much formal learning
with the 6 year old? Just a thought. The most important thing any of your
kids need to learn at this stage is how to be good readers, and that
includes the 6 year old. I think the handwriting and math can easily be
[...]44_20Feb200510:05:03-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 8003 127 36_homeschooling for financial reasons?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:28:56 EST593_US-ASCII Mandy:

I read your post fragment (below) and I felt sad. Do not feel ashamed for
being human, and struggling. At some point, we all get overwhelmed. We are all
works in progress! I know that there are some things that I have gotten better
at over the years, and some things that I have struggled with and continue to
struggle with, but hopefully from a stronger place now, than just a bit ago
cuz maybe I have more info/resources/perspective, etc. (not to mention large
areas that are not yet on my radar screen of things to be addressed!).
Sometimes [...]37_20Feb200500:28:56ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 8131 64 16_Re: Mandy's post0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:33:12 EST681_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/19/05 1:59:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> We're having to teach our own selves,
> and it ain't always easy, especially when we're
> surrounded by frum Martha Stewarts.
>

I posted my response before reading this one. All I can say is ditto! this
was stated so very well.

Rena

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]37_20Feb200500:33:12ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 8196 100 16_Re: outside help14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 06:03:06 -0600592_iso-8859-1 Shoshana,
HEY~ I' have an olympic climber too, my youngest, a 17month boy!! :-)

Sounds like you're doing well to me. It seems you are setting priorities
for your home. It is wonderful for your children having you there with
them. I read someone say once when they were children, that their mother
wasn't always by their side all day long but she was in the kitchen or doing
something in the home where if she was needed they KNEW she would be right
there for them. You mentoined "loosening your grip". Maybe trying to
remember that these days with [...]45_20Feb200506:03:06-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 8297 69 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:40:05 -0500583_- okay, now how does this go again? I think 14 people are suppose to write in
about their experiences in changing light bulbs and the dangers of this
activity, and then the spell checkers are next, followed by people flaming
the spell checkers, and then many people are suppose to complain to the
moderators... All right guys-take it away!
I didnt ask a shaila. I'm so terrible. I didnt ask a shaila before
homeschooling either. I know you meant that as a joke Shoshana but somehow
it hit a nerve, because recently someone asked us about who we ask our
[...]44_20Feb200509:40:05-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 8367 103 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 12:24:30 -0500355_us-ascii Well, since this is a frum list, I thought it would be important to
consult a halachic advisor. I realize this will add to the number of
listmembers required to change a lightbulb, but I think it is well worth
it, considering the reward.

And, yes, Rivky (and the rest), it IS meant as a joke, so, as my Rav
says, "Relax!" [...]40_20Feb200512:24:30-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 8471 72 35_letting go and taking reponsibility13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 09:54:06 -0800535_us-ascii I had to smile wryly at your comment that you aren't doing all you are capable of with your children. I don't know anyone who is - it seems all of us homeschooling moms (actually, all moms, period!) have an ongoing sense of guilt based on what we could be doing but aren't. Having the potential to do more should inspire us, not discourage us, but too often, it doesn't seem to work like that. If right now you can't do more, that's okay. There is a time for everything, and at every point one must prioritize to be sure [...]44_20Feb200509:54:06-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 8544 49 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:27:11 -0500604_us-ascii Nice family. How long have you been homeschooling? (Sorry I don't
remember everyone's specifics!)

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of malkiadler@juno.com
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:11 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasons

Right, but I can't in all honesty count the five month old, can I?
My kids are girl 11.5,girl 10.5 boy 8.5 boy 6.5 girl,4.5 and boy 2 and
then the baby.
Malki [...]40_20Feb200513:27:11-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 8594 46 40_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons?15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:59:47 -0800368_us-ascii I remember going to a house for Shabbos where the
mother had 4 teenaged girls. They did most of the
cooking and served their parents the meal. As the
mother of one little boy, I watched in AWE. :) Then I
remembered that to get to that point, that mom had
raised 4 little girls and taught them how to do all
those things. She earned it! [...]45_20Feb200514:59:47-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 8641 63 16_Re: Mandy's post15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 14:56:55 -0800672_us-ascii Rena -

I recognize your name. Were you on any of the doula
lists? Or maybe Yalad?

Alison

--- RENALEVIN@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 2/19/05 1:59:14 AM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:
>
>
> > We're having to teach our own selves,
> > and it ain't always easy, especially when we're
> > surrounded by frum Martha Stewarts.
> >
>
> I posted my response before reading this one. All I
> can say is ditto! this
> was stated so very well.
>
> Rena
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> The TORCH-D mailing [...]45_20Feb200514:56:55-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 8705 498 39_Re: homeschooling for financial reasons17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 16:38:00 -0500398_iso-8859-1 >How do you homeschool/unschool the Judaic studies - Chumash, Rashi,
>Ivrit, Navi, Dinim, etc.? I'd like my daughter to get in-depth
>knowledge, not the superficial understanding of the pshat and a few
>miforshim like I did for 12 years of "good" yeshivas. I don't have
>the time (or patience) to sit and teach, either. Money for tutors is
>not there.
>
>Caryn [...]38_20Feb200516:38:00-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 9204 39 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs14_Devora Farrell22_dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 15:59:18 -0500531_iso-8859-1 > I didnt ask a shaila. I'm so terrible. I didnt ask a shaila before
> homeschooling either. I know you meant that as a joke Shoshana but somehow
> it hit a nerve, because recently someone asked us about who we ask our
> shailas to. The question was posed in the context of a conversation about
> our homeschooling, and i was pretty upset about the incident and still am.
> I ask shailos when i have a shaila. When i first decided to homeschool i
> didnt have a shaila about it- i just did it. My [...]44_20Feb200515:59:18-0500dfarrell@EXECUFIND.COM 9244 54 16_Re: outside help6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 11:31:40 -0700503_US-ASCII Thanks Avivah for your inspirational words. I printed your post and will
look at it when I need some chizuk.

I didn't really intend for my post to be such a cry for help. Overall we
are doing well and actually have a very relaxed unstructured style. To be
more precise:

reading = one Bob book/day
math = Singapore math until it no longer holds interest (appx. 20 min.)
handwriting = ds takes out a paper and asks me to spell out his stream of
consciousness [...]42_20Feb200511:31:40-0700najova@EARTHLINK.NET 9299 53 36_Carry On Mr. Bowditch - Unit Studies13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:39:22 -0800627_us-ascii I am looking for advice on finding unit studies material to go with this book appropriate for middle school student.

Carry On, Mr. Bowditch is a 1955 Newberry Award winning account of the life of Nathanial Bowditch. Bowditch was born just before the American Revolution. Because of family circumstances, Bowditch was apprenticed to a shipping company at age 12 and never able to have a formal secondary education. He was gifted in Mathematics. Eventually he began to sail ships and realized there were errors in the navigation charts in use in his time. He recalculated the navigation charts and published [...]41_20Feb200519:39:22-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 9353 96 26_older siblings helping out13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:44:50 -0800520_us-ascii It sounds like you are doing great, Shoshana Z!

As far as your son helping your daughter to potty train, I think it's great! That's one reason that parenting really does get easier as you have more kids. My kids do so much around here that I sometimes feel like a lady of leisure (well, you know what I mean). My ten year old daughter is more capable of putting her 2.5 yo brother to sleep than me - somehow, she gets him to stay in bed once she puts him there, and to stay there happily! The way I [...]44_20Feb200519:44:50-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 9450 86 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:54:52 -0500541_- Devora and Shoshana, i just want to clarify that i really have nothing
"against" asking a shaila. I think its wondeful to have someone to go to for
insight and advise on anything, not just halachic issues. I dont believe, by
the way, that that role must be played by a rav always. It can be played of
course by a rebetzin, a friend, or whatever. I believe that to a large
extent we all play that role for each other on this list.
What bothers me is when dealing with people who believe strongly that to be
a good [...]44_21Feb200509:54:52-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 9537 166 40_Re: Carry On Mr. Bowditch - Unit Studies17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 07:58:21 -0500625_us-ascii there have been a spate of recent books on Longitude ( including a
couple by that name) that deal with (2)-- I think there is a shorter
"children's version by the same title available now as well. They
should include some discussion of maritime navigation.
Some interesting cross-cultural work on the navigation technique of
the natives of the Polynesian Islands and how they use the sky as a
"map", setting landmarks, etc.-- but you would have to trackt hat
stuff down in a University library.
Re: Life in the American Revolution: there are series of books for
writers that describe [...]38_21Feb200507:58:21-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 9704 71 40_Re: Carry On Mr. Bowditch - Unit Studies18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 00:54:28 -0500776_us-ascii bs'd
I liked the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextant
Lots of interesting links.

http://www.famousamericans.net/nathanielbowditch/

The following has links to lesson plans (James Madison U.)
http://falcon.jmu.edu/~ramseyil/colonial.htm

kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman

On 2/20/2005 10:39 PM, Barbara Mazor wrote:
> I am looking for advice on finding unit studies material to go with this
> book appropriate for middle school student.
>
> Carry On, Mr. Bowditch is a 1955 Newberry Award winning account of the
> life of Nathanial Bowditch. Bowditch was born just before the American
> Revolution. Because of family circumstances, Bowditch was apprenticed
> to a shipping company at age 12 [...]41_21Feb200500:54:28-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 9776 80 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:27:20 -0500581_us-ascii I tell people that my Rav said I only need to ask a shailah if I am
unsure about the halachic implications of something. If your rav would
subscribe to such a statement, you could say that. It demonstrates your
loyalty to halacha, as well as your differing philosophy.

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:55 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs [...]40_21Feb200513:27:20-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 9857 80 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:13:12 -0600624_iso-8859-1 <<> What bothers me is when dealing with people who believe strongly that to
be a good frum Jew one must ask a shaila about everything>>

I made a conscious decision to not live around people like that. I dont
consider such folks to be more religious: I consider them less religious
because they hide behind piskei halakha (or their understanding of that
psak) rather than articulating why they are doing something. The slough off
the hard choices and responsibility on their rabbonim, who dont have to live
with the consequences.
For myself, I separate between wanting a psak and [...]49_21Feb200513:13:12-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 9938 119 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:38:07 -0500570_us-ascii I must say that no one has ever asked me if I asked a shaila.

But-- if someone did-- I do think the best response is "no, actually
we didn't think of asking a shaila about this, but I can see why you
would think schooling is an important enough issue to consult with a
rav about. And I am really interested in the kind of chinuch advice
you have received in regards to educating your children--always
fascinating to hear chinuch perspectives.
Did you ask a rav a shaila before sending your child to school? I
would love to hear [...]38_21Feb200513:38:07-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 10058 60 12_who are you?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:07:42 EST542_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/21/05 1:58:30 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> I recognize your name. Were you on any of the doula
> lists? Or maybe Yalad?
>

Yes, that's me.

Rena

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]37_21Feb200513:07:42ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 10119 60 40_Re: Carry On Mr. Bowditch - Unit Studies13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 14:34:16 -0800854_us-ascii Thanks, Benzion, these are really helpful.

Barb.

Benjamin H Dickman wrote:
bs'd
I liked the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextant
Lots of interesting links.

http://www.famousamericans.net/nathanielbowditch/

The following has links to lesson plans (James Madison U.)
http://falcon.jmu.edu/~ramseyil/colonial.htm

kol tuv,
Benzion Dickman

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/41_21Feb200514:34:16-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 10180 130 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:11:48 -0500457_us-ascii What I find interesting, Bill, is that it is unlikely that the people
Rivky are worrying about, the ones who ask a shaila about EVERYTHING,
have asked a shaila about sending their kids to school. The fact is
that EVERYONE chooses when to ask a shaila, and how. Inherent in the
question, to Rivky's ears, if I am reading her correctly, is that
because homeschooling is a "non-normative" situation, it requires a
shaila/eitza. [...]38_21Feb200517:11:48-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 10311 106 40_Re: Carry On Mr. Bowditch - Unit Studies13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:40:47 -0800626_us-ascii Thanks, Chana, we are off to the library tomorrow to see what we can find.

Barbara

Chana Silberstein wrote:
there have been a spate of recent books on Longitude ( including a couple by that name) that deal with (2)-- I think there is a shorter "children's version by the same title available now as well. They should include some discussion of maritime navigation.
Some interesting cross-cultural work on the navigation technique of the natives of the Polynesian Islands and how they use the sky as a "map", setting landmarks, etc.-- but you would have to trackt hat stuff [...]41_21Feb200516:40:47-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 10418 80 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:00:09 -0600594_iso-8859-1 <Rivky are worrying about, the ones who ask a shaila about EVERYTHING, have
asked a shaila about sending their kids to school>>

But I have found plenty of situations where people will ask *which* school
to send their children to. That of course is tricky because in my view
there are no good schools or bad schools but ones that good for some people
and bad for some people. But that is another issue.
I think people expect that HSers would have asked sheylas simply because it
[...]49_21Feb200517:00:09-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 10499 215 40_Re: Carry On Mr. Bowditch - Unit Studies17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 19:10:30 -0500640_us-ascii >I am looking for advice on finding unit studies material to go with
>this book appropriate for middle school student.

More Ideas for Unit Studies Material:

Johnny Tremain ( Esther Forbes) and Amos Fortune, Free Man (
Elizabeth Yates), and The Witch of blackbird Pond ( Elizabeth George
Speare) are three other Newbery Award books set in the same
historical period; Elizabeth George Speare has also written another
wonderful book about this period, The Sign of the Beaver. Also good
is The Fighting Ground by Avi, My Brother Sam is Dead ( Collier and
Collier), Rabbits and Redcoats ( Robert [...]38_21Feb200519:10:30-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 10715 62 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 16:54:37 -0800591_us-ascii On the flip side, I am sometimes bothered when people
proudly attest to how few shailas they ask. What's
the big deal about a shaila? I also resent it when
those same people put down those of us who do receive
frequent halachic guidance as "not thinking for
ourselves" or any other such drivel.

One man I knew (a potential shidduch) told me he
hadn't asked a shaila in 15 years - occasionally he
would ask a theoretical, but not a shaila. He liked
not having to follow someone else's "command". I was
a bit appalled, quite frankly. That's not [...]45_21Feb200516:54:37-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 10778 47 25_Historical Period's Name?13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 20:12:38 -0800638_us-ascii I hope question this doesn't sound too lame, but is there a specific name for the period in American history following the American Revolution until around 1830 or so? Does any know?

Thanks,

Barbara

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/41_21Feb200520:12:38-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 10826 311 29_Re: Historical Period's Name?8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:26:46 -0500624_us-ascii Well, from 1789-1800 is called the Federalist Period (as in Federalist
architecture).

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Barbara Mazor
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 11:13 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] Historical Period's Name?

I hope question this doesn't sound too lame, but is there a specific
name for the period in American history following the American
Revolution until around 1830 or so? Does any know?
Thanks,
Barbara
_____ [...]40_22Feb200505:26:46-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 11138 188 15_Post-Federalist8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 05:51:55 -0500540_us-ascii Heheh-and apparently the period from 1801-1829 is known, appropriately
enough, as the POST-Federalist Period.

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG40_22Feb200505:51:55-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 11327 88 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 06:19:40 -0500590_us-ascii I am trying to consider the motivation of people asking whether a
homeschooler asked a shailah.

One reason could be that they would consider homeschooling, themselves,
but are concerned to know whether it would be appropriate for someone of
their hashkafa. This could be the reason they want to know, "Who's your
rav?"

Maybe they are just interested to learn something new about ways of
living Jewishly, something that challenges their preconceived notions.
They are trying to overcome cognitive dissonance and make everything fit
together. [...]40_22Feb200506:19:40-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 11416 34 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:11:21 -0500584_- >
>In sum, and as I wrote before elsewhere, if we are looking for acceptance
>from the "frum" crowd, we' re not going to get it. Not even worth
>pursuing.
>-Bill
I'm not looking for acceptance. Believe me. I'd love to surround myself with
like minded people- people who dont just follow the crowd in everything they
do- and follow conventional norms just because its conventional norms. That
is why i love this list. (So far though i havent found any other frum
homeschoolers here) What i would very much like, is that if and when i get
caught in [...]44_22Feb200509:11:21-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11451 33 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:06:23 -0500597_- >What I find interesting, Bill, is that it is unlikely that the people Rivky
>are worrying about, the ones who ask a shaila about EVERYTHING, have asked
>a shaila about sending their kids to school. The fact is that EVERYONE
>chooses when to ask a shaila, and how. Inherent in the question, to Rivky's
>ears, if I am reading her correctly, is that because homeschooling is a
>"non-normative" situation, it requires a shaila/eitza.
I was just thinking about this Chana, after i read your first response. If
i get into a converstion that sounds like "... and did you ask [...]44_22Feb200509:06:23-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11485 116 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 09:01:59 -0500552_- I agree with much of what you are saying. While rabanim, and outsiders in
general can provide an objective perspective, we are the ones who really
know what is going on in our homes, with our children, and in our hearts.
I have heard people imply that it is good to ask a shaila because that takes
the responsibility away from us and gives it to the rav. Read that "The rav
might ch'v get punnished in the next world, but you are off the hook." This
mentality has always rubbed me the wrong way. But it is my understanding
[...]44_22Feb200509:01:59-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11602 147 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:44:36 -0500581_- Wow! Thanks for the lightbult Chana! Let me ask you this though- what if the
person asking the question is kind of a rav himself? Because last time
someone challenged me about this, it was from a prestigious (sp) person in
the community, that we had reason to speak to, but not about homeschooling.
In the middle of the conversation he begins asking about where our kids go
to school. I was really getting annoyed feeling like "What does THIS have to
do with anything??" But the point is, this was not a person i would feel
comfortable challenging with [...]44_22Feb200508:44:36-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11750 100 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:37:06 -0500720_- :-) :-) :-) Whose your rav, might i ask? Maybe he could tell me the same
thing? Rivky

>From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs
>Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:27:20 -0500
>
>I tell people that my Rav said I only need to ask a shailah if I am
>unsure about the halachic implications of something. If your rav would
>subscribe to such a statement, you could say that. It demonstrates your
>loyalty to halacha, as well as your differing philosophy.
>
>Shoshana Sloman
>torch-d listowner
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Torah-Centered [...]44_22Feb200508:37:06-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11851 77 11_4 year olds14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:13:30 -0600494_iso-8859-1 Sorry to go off the latest topic but I have a question for you... My son will be 4 in a couple of weeks and during our learning time (secular) he only wants to do cut and paste things lately. I'd really like if he started writing soon, as he doesn't know how to write his name though he does know how it is spelled. I wouldn't worry so but I'm afraid that if I don't push him gently in the way I'd like him to go that he will not have good study and learning habits in a couple [...]45_22Feb200507:13:30-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 11929 101 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:42:53 -0500660_us-ascii Love this post.
Maybe we should change the title of this thread to 5,000 reasons to
ask someone whether they asked a shaila before they started
homeschooling :-).
Chana

>I am trying to consider the motivation of people asking whether a
>homeschooler asked a shailah.
>
>One reason could be that they would consider homeschooling, themselves,
>but are concerned to know whether it would be appropriate for someone of
>their hashkafa. This could be the reason they want to know, "Who's your
>rav?"
>
>Maybe they are just interested to learn something new about ways of
>living Jewishly, something that [...]38_22Feb200507:42:53-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 12031 65 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:05:29 -0800519_us-ascii Actually, in my former community in St. Louis, people
asked about making aliyah all the time, and were often
told me wait, especially if they had children to
consider.

And I think that moving to a larger Jewish community
may be less problematic than moving to a smaller or
almost non-existent one, simply because isolation is
not always such a great thing for frum Jews. Having
moved from a medium sized community to the middle of
nowhere temporarily, i can attest to that. [...]45_21Feb200517:05:29-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 12097 332 15_Re: 4 year olds8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:13:41 -0500519_US-ASCII While I agree with your general idea that it is good to develop work
habits, my opinion is that at age four he should be allowed to cut and
paste and not worry about writing anything. It will come in good time!
:-)

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Mandy Oeschger
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 8:14 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] 4 year olds [...]40_22Feb200510:13:41-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 12430 43 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:31:53 -0500396_US-ASCII My Rav is Rabbi Jeremy Rosen, a musmach of Mir Yeshiva in Yerushalayim,
and graduate of Cambridge University.

Among other things, he has previously taught classes to Jewish
homeschoolers.

In an article on Jewish education he wrote, "Education is the
responsibility of the parent. Delegation is a risk. It is up to the
parent to try to minimize that risk." [...]40_22Feb200510:31:53-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 12474 91 15_Re: 4 year olds13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:00:47 -0800521_us-ascii Oh, gosh, Mandy, he's not even FOUR! The reason you are giving is the same reason every parent of any age child gives for pushing more than they feel the child is ready for - because they won't be up to par or will fall behind if they do do xyz right now. That assumes that there is some magical age that each skill needs to be mastered by, which is totally false. There are important life skills for children to learn, and they will learn them when they need them. If he wants to cut and paste now, follow [...]44_22Feb200508:00:47-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 12566 51 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:54:44 -0500623_us-ascii bs'd
If you really want to make some fine enemies, then
after they ask "Didn't you ask a shaila?" you look
them straight in the eye and ask "What's the issur
(prohibition) here?"

Then you wait until they make their next wrong move and:
"The Torah places the responsibility for chinukh on
the parents; where do you learn a heter (permission) for
appointing a shaliach (agent) to fulfill your responsibility?"
And you zing them with "v'shinantam l'vanekha" (and you shall
teach them to your children) and with Genesis 18:19.
Then you hit them with "I wouldn't want to put a [...]41_22Feb200510:54:44-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 12618 176 18_shailas/lightbulbs0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:06:00 EST600_US-ASCII Wow, Chana, you really lit up my day. I have been feeling very down and
pressured, and a bit reluctant to share this with the group, but you have given me
an opening....

I feel/have felt that this year is a sort of "referendum" on our
homeschooling decision, since my son is 17, a senior, and will be going "out there", so
people are now "judging" the success of our homeschooling "experiment". For a
variety of reasons, we have decided NOT to send our son to Eretz Yisroel next
year, (long discussion) and have decided to look stateside, actually locally,
[...]37_22Feb200511:06:00ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 12795 410 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:23:32 -0500328_iso-8859-1 A nice side-step is: well, actually, this never came up as a shaila
for us ( note the passive tense: very important)-- it was quite clear
that this was the best route for our children. I am sure you have
some interesting experiences about schooling yourself. And then wait
for them to say something. [...]38_22Feb200510:23:32-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 13206 236 15_Re: 4 year olds8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:08:53 -0500586_US-ASCII I want to add that pushing children to do things before they are ready
often results in their becoming resistant to learning those things
later. Better to cultivate, encourage, give opportunities for new
skills to develop, than to try to impose a timetable.

What I have sometimes done is try something out to see if the kid is
ready. Using your example, I might have the child try writing one day
or several days. If he is really struggling with it, I assume he's not
ready and back off. I have often been surprised to find that within a
short [...]40_22Feb200511:08:53-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 13443 112 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:25:57 -0500620_iso-8859-1 >>What I find interesting, Bill, is that it is unlikely that the
>>people Rivky are worrying about, the ones who ask a shaila about
>>EVERYTHING, have asked a shaila about sending their kids to school.
>>The fact is that EVERYONE chooses when to ask a shaila, and how.
>>Inherent in the question, to Rivky's ears, if I am reading her
>>correctly, is that because homeschooling is a "non-normative"
>>situation, it requires a shaila/eitza.
> I was just thinking about this Chana, after i read your first
>response. If i get into a converstion that sounds like "... and did
>you [...]38_22Feb200510:25:57-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 13556 87 15_Re: 4 year olds18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:26:37 -0500438_us-ascii bs'd

I always found with my now 9y.o. that if I pushed something before
she was ready, she would develop 'antibodies' to the activity and
would reject it for a long time later. If I just said "OK, maybe
some other time", she'd be ready to do it with goodwill not too
many months later. That's one of the finest advantages of HSing:
customization of curriculum and the timing that's right for your kid. [...]41_22Feb200510:26:37-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 13644 69 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 08:54:48 -0600573_iso-8859-1 I agree with Shoshana that all the motivations she mentions are probably
present.
In thinking about it more, I decided that not every question someone asks a
rav is a sheyla. For example, anything that someone would know just from a
good knowledge of the sources is not a sheyla. Someone with a thorough
knowledge of laws of meat and milk will never ask about putting dairy spoons
into meat pots and so on. But since many people do not have that knowledge
they need to go to someone who does.
But a true sheyla comes when there is a [...]49_22Feb200508:54:48-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 13714 427 22_Re: shailas/lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:13:03 -0500357_US-ASCII Rena, you said it perfectly! When I was reading the part about if
things don't turn out after homeschooling, it's the parents' fault, I
was THINKING "Just like with homebirthing", and then saw you wrote that.

It is precisely the case that the onus is on the person taking
responsibility to choose a DIFFERENT course of action. [...]40_22Feb200511:13:03-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 14142 124 15_Re: 4 year olds17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:37:18 -0500515_us-ascii > Sorry to go off the latest topic but I have a question for
>you... My son will be 4 in a couple of weeks and during our
>learning time (secular) he only wants to do cut and paste things
>lately. I'd really like if he started writing soon, as he doesn't
>know how to write his name though he does know how it is spelled. I
>wouldn't worry so but I'm afraid that if I don't push him gently in
>the way I'd like him to go that he will not have good study and
>learning habits in a [...]38_22Feb200510:37:18-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 14267 66 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:40:32 -0500587_windows-1252 bs'd
My wife and I discussed the HSing issue with our Rav.
We will use the 'shaila' mode when we're talking about
something being permissible or not, and it's a formal
interaction that binds us to his psaq. But discussions
actually take much more of his time for the kehilla.
He told us that it is a proper derekh (way of life) to
follow a community norm *all other things being equal*.
And in Monsey, NY, the norm is school. So he agreed with
us that our kids' health requires spending winters in
Florida and that was a justification for [...]41_22Feb200510:40:32-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 14334 59 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:14:14 -0500503_US-ASCII I love this response!

And your first point fits exactly with what I said earlier--that the
only time to ask a shailah is when there is a concern about the halachic
implications.

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Benjamin H Dickman
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:55 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs [...]40_22Feb200511:14:14-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 14394 376 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:15:14 -0500719_US-ASCII Chana, I am ever admiring your wonderful way of phrasing things!

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Chana Silberstein
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:26 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs

What I find interesting, Bill, is that it is unlikely that the people
Rivky are worrying about, the ones who ask a shaila about EVERYTHING,
have asked a shaila about sending their kids to school. The fact is that
EVERYONE chooses when to ask a shaila, and how. Inherent in the
question, to Rivky's ears, if I am reading her [...]40_22Feb200511:15:14-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 14771 173 43_Re: homeschooling/unschooling highschoolers12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:19:07 -0500609_iso-8859-1 This is another off topic.

Has anyone homeschooled highschoolers? Would this effect a possible year in Israel, as many kids are doing after high school? Has anyone had children go to Israel for a year?

Any thoughts? I'd appreciate some feedback.

Todah,

Caryn

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]46_22Feb200511:19:07-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 14945 233 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:20:48 -0500454_US-ASCII A big part of not feeling dumb in these conversations is developing
self-confidence. You have to be comfortable with your own choices in
life. You can't be all things to all people, and you have to
acknowledge to yourself that some people will disapprove, BUT THAT'S OK.
As unpleasant as it is to have people thinking ill of us, it's really
part of life and there's no commandment that I know of to make everyone
like us. [...]40_22Feb200511:20:48-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 15179 251 15_Re: 4 year olds12_Rachel Moore24_racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:06:13 -0500382_iso-8859-1 Re: [TORCH-D] 4 year oldsMandy,

Another "montessori" idea is to have kids that age do scooping activities -- i.e., having two smallish containers, one filled with beads or lentils or couscous or something like that, and a spoon or scooper. Kids love scooping from one cup/bowl to the other, and it develops wrist coordination that is very useful for writing. [...]46_22Feb200513:06:13-0500racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET 15431 60 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:47:59 -0500646_us-ascii ROTFL... good thing its Adar :-).

>bs'd
>If you really want to make some fine enemies, then
>after they ask "Didn't you ask a shaila?" you look
>them straight in the eye and ask "What's the issur
>(prohibition) here?"
>
>Then you wait until they make their next wrong move and:
>"The Torah places the responsibility for chinukh on
>the parents; where do you learn a heter (permission) for
>appointing a shaliach (agent) to fulfill your responsibility?"
>And you zing them with "v'shinantam l'vanekha" (and you shall
>teach them to your children) and with Genesis 18:19.
>Then you hit them [...]38_22Feb200513:47:59-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 15492 49 27_please change subject lines13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:41:35 -0800489_us-ascii In order to keep the subject lines current and relevant to what is being discussed, please change the subject lines of your posts to reflect what you are writing about. For example, instead of 'changing lightbulbs', something more accurate would be 'asking shailos'. There are some people who won't read a post if the subject line doesn't interest them, and this will help everyone to decide before opening their messages if it is something they want to look at that minute. [...]44_22Feb200512:41:35-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 15542 385 31_Re: please change subject lines8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:46:26 -0500762_US-ASCII Ha! Yes, they might think there really ARE hundreds torch-d listmembers
involved in changing a lightbulb, as predicted! :-)

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Avivah Werner
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 3:42 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] please change subject lines

In order to keep the subject lines current and relevant to what is being
discussed, please change the subject lines of your posts to reflect what
you are writing about. For example, instead of 'changing lightbulbs',
something more accurate would be 'asking shailos'. There are some
people who won't read a [...]40_22Feb200515:46:26-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 15928 62 36_post Singapore Math recommendations?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:49:34 -0800541_us-ascii I will be making my yearly Rainbow Resource order this week, and am thinking ahead as to what will be useful. (This is in response to an old post by Zara, regarding Singapore Math.) I welcome feedback from anyone who has experience with math programs post Singapore.

What do you recommend after completing Singapore 6B? Is New Elementary Mathematics done in a similar way to the earlier grades? What do you perceive to be its strengths and weaknesses? What other programs have you found helpful for upper middle school? [...]44_22Feb200512:49:34-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 15991 83 15_Re: 4 year olds13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 14:30:03 -0800366_us-ascii Mandy -

I just want to say I completely agree with Chana, Aviva and Shoshana regarding your 3 year-old. The fact that he is able to cut and paste is very good measure of eye-hand coordination for a child of this age. Don't worry about writing now. The fact that he wants to sit and cut and paste shows that he already has good attention skills. [...]41_22Feb200514:30:03-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 16075 40 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:07:36 -0500767_- >From: Benjamin H Dickman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs
>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:54:44 -0500
>
>bs'd
>If you really want to make some fine enemies, then

boy, you really get me in the mood to make some enemies! Rivky
>> >
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
>Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
>a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
>an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
>
>To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...]44_22Feb200516:07:36-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 16116 124 31_Re: shailas/lightbulbs-for Rena11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:11:45 -0500349_- Rena, what you should tell the yeshivas after you tell them that he has been
homeschooled, is you describe WHAT he did in homeschooling. Which gemorahs,
mishnayose, history books, math, algebra, geometry blah blah blah-
chavrusahs he might have learned with etc. Then with a smile in your voice
say "feel free to test him." Rivky [...]44_22Feb200516:11:45-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 16241 225 40_Re: post Singapore Math recommendations?17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:33:03 -0500618_us-ascii I am currently using New Elementary Mathematics.
It is a very challenging program. You will definitely want to order
the solutions manual/teacher's guide if you continue with this series.
I typically read one section, and assign a set of exercises each day.
Most exercies contain about 10 problems.
The bulk of the lesson the next day is spent reviewing these exercises.
I do this with both my 12 and 13 year old; sometimes, they solve the
same problem with different methods, or only one will have the
answer. I have them post difficult problems on the board.
quite often, if [...]38_22Feb200516:33:03-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 16467 59 40_Re: post Singapore Math recommendations?10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 13:40:34 -0800322_iso-8859-1 We've just started using NEM for my older daughter this month. So far it seems ok, but she's still doing mostly review and hasn't started any new material, so it's too early to know how good it is. We're also using a very interesting and practical math book, Mathematics a Human Endeavor by Harold Jacobs. [...]36_22Feb200513:40:34-0800zara@HAIMO.NET 16527 65 27_Anyone in Jacksonville, FL?14_Wendy and Jess15_viking@STIS.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 21:41:32 -0500305_iso-8859-1 Just wondering if anyone on this list is in Jacksonville, FL? I would like to get in touch with any frum homeschooling families who live in the area. Thank you!

Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam (born at home on 12/4/04!) [...]37_22Feb200521:41:32-0500viking@STIS.NET 16593 23 29_off topic-getting rid of spam6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:18:16 -0700572_US-ASCII I know this has been discussed before, but I did not save any of the
particulars. I have recently started receiving rated-X spam e-mails. I
would love to know how I can stop this short of changing my e-mail address.
Thanks!

Shoshana Z.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_22Feb200520:18:16-0700najova@EARTHLINK.NET 16617 21 24_what is rainbow resource6_Zohari20_najova@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:21:17 -0700460_US-ASCII I would love to know what Rainbow Resource is.
Thanks.

Shoshana Z.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG42_22Feb200520:21:17-0700najova@EARTHLINK.NET 16639 46 33_Re: off topic-getting rid of spam18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 23:03:30 -0500472_us-ascii bs'd
Shoshana,

My Internet Service Provider (Optonline.net) does some filtering.
They also give me a publicly-visible address (bdickman@optonline.net)
that is my lightning rod. It gets all the junk that the ISP doesn't kill,
and I just delete it. They also gave me 3 other free 'subaccounts'
that we never use on public websites, so they stay clean. Call your
service provider's techincal help desk and see what they can do for you. [...]41_22Feb200523:03:30-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 16686 61 28_Re: what is rainbow resource13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:13:23 -0800582_us-ascii Rainbow Resource Center is a fantastic homeschooling supply catalog, that is at least 800 pages thick. It is filled with detailed descriptions of every item they offer, traditional curriculum and manipulatives as well as games, books, etc. A nice benefit for parents who aren't Christian but are interested in knowing a book has been previewed for content, is the section in the back of books. If it is a x-ian storyline, they will tell you and you can avoid it. Likewise, they will tell you if there are themes of witchcraft, the use of the word darn in an otherwise [...]44_22Feb200520:13:23-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 16748 153 40_Re: post Singapore Math recommendations?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 20:36:33 -0800482_us-ascii Thank you, Zara and Chana, for your responses.

Chana, as I read your answer, I already feel the like the gravy train (ie, easy homeschooling topics) is going to be pulling out of the station soon. It seems too soon to be thinking about teaching algebra and other topics that will require me to exert more than a few brain cells. You said that if you are willing to put in time, the rewards are well worth it. How long would you say that you spend on NEM daily? [...]44_22Feb200520:36:33-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 16902 451 40_Re: post Singapore Math recommendations?17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:00:37 -0500509_us-ascii >Thank you, Zara and Chana, for your responses.
>
>Chana, as I read your answer, I already feel the like the gravy
>train (ie, easy homeschooling topics) is going to be pulling out of
>the station soon. It seems too soon to be thinking about teaching
>algebra and other topics that will require me to exert more than a
>few brain cells. You said that if you are willing to put in time,
>the rewards are well worth it. How long would you say that you
>spend on NEM daily? [...]38_23Feb200500:00:37-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 17354 81 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:37:25 +0200615_us-ascii Whatd'ya mean, Adar? I've done this! (except the gneiva part-- I'll have
to addd that!)

Malkie

Chana Silberstein wrote:

> ROTFL... good thing its Adar :-).
>
>> bs'd
>> If you really want to make some fine enemies, then
>> after they ask "Didn't you ask a shaila?" you look
>> them straight in the eye and ask "What's the issur
>> (prohibition) here?"
>>
>> Then you wait until they make their next wrong move and:
>> "The Torah places the responsibility for chinukh on
>> the parents; where do you learn a heter (permission) for
>> appointing [...]46_23Feb200515:37:25+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 17436 53 15_anyone near me?15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:17:29 -0800584_us-ascii BS"D

Hi again all,

I have a stack of books from the library about homeschooling and am working my way through making this decision. I won't rehash all my personal vacillations with it, but I would very much like to know if there are any other frum homeschoolers near me. I am in the Five Towns, NY (near JFK airport) but would travel to meet with anyone from Long Island, Queens, even Brooklyn. Possibly Manhattan. My folks live in northern NJ (near Morristown) and I visit them frequently enough that I could also meet someone/attend a group if they live [...]40_23Feb200506:17:29-0800drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 17490 30 15_Re: 4 year olds10_Louise Fox20_louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:05:36 +0200479_us-ascii Agreeing with everyone who already posted on this subject.
I just wanted to add another suggestion. Playdough is another good
hands-on activity for little ones. If you make "sausages" out of the
dough, it is easy to form letters and numbers. If he likes this, you can
continue with it. if not, you can leave it for another time. If he likes
the idea, it may be much easier for him to do with playdough than to
make letters with a pencil on paper. [...]42_23Feb200520:05:36+0200louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM 17521 91 15_Re: 4 year olds17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:28:08 -0500580_us-ascii >Agreeing with everyone who already posted on this subject.
>I just wanted to add another suggestion. Playdough is another good
>hands-on activity for little ones. If you make "sausages" out of the
>dough, it is easy to form letters and numbers. If he likes this, you
>can continue with it. if not, you can leave it for another time. If
>he likes the idea, it may be much easier for him to do with
>playdough than to make letters with a pencil on paper.
>
>Louise
>in Israel
>whose 4 year old made a bakery with his playdough today and [...]38_23Feb200515:28:08-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 17613 90 19_Re: anyone near me?13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:55:56 -0800645_us-ascii Nicole -

I am in Brooklyn. There is also a listserve for NYC area Jewish homeschoolers. The address is JHENYC@yahoogroups.com

Barbara

Nicole Brackman wrote:
BS"D

Hi again all,

I have a stack of books from the library about homeschooling and am working my way through making this decision. I won't rehash all my personal vacillations with it, but I would very much like to know if there are any other frum homeschoolers near me. I am in the Five Towns, NY (near JFK airport) but would travel to meet with anyone from Long Island, Queens, even Brooklyn. Possibly Manhattan. [...]41_23Feb200518:55:56-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 17704 54 15_Re: 4 year olds11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 15:57:06 -0500502_- Mandy, as someone whose oldest is k'ah 19 and youngest is k'ah 8, let me
tell you that almost 4 is a BABY!!!! IY'H your son will live a long happy
and healthy life. Let him live! Let him cut and paste til his heart's
content. If your really nervious about this, let him cut and paste letters
and numbers, among whatever else he wants he to cut and paste. Snuggle up
with him and read books. Dont pressure him too much to read to you. Basicaly
my comment to you is RELAX! Rivky [...]44_23Feb200515:57:06-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 17759 56 19_Re: anyone near me?12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 20:53:59 -0500567_US-ASCII Hi :) I live in Morristown, at least for the next few months. I have
6yo and 3yo boys.

Judith

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 06:17:29 -0800, Nicole Brackman wrote:
> BS"D
>
> Hi again all,
>
> I have a stack of books from the library about homeschooling and am working
> my way through making this decision. I won't rehash all my personal
> vacillations with it, but I would very much like to know if there are any
> other frum homeschoolers near me. I am in the Five Towns, NY (near JFK
> airport) [...]44_23Feb200520:53:59-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 17816 142 15_Re: 4 year olds11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:02:34 -0500595_- >From: Benjamin H Dickman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] 4 year olds
>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:26:37 -0500
>
>bs'd
>
>I always found with my now 9y.o. that if I pushed something before
>she was ready, she would develop 'antibodies' to the activity and
>would reject it for a long time later. If I just said "OK, maybe
>some other time", she'd be ready to do it with goodwill not too
>many months later. That's one of the finest advantages of HSing: [...]44_24Feb200508:02:34-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 17959 51 17_Re: supplementing12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:37:47 -0500654_Windows-1252 Don't children mind supplementing after a full day of yeshiva and homework?

Caryn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin H Dickman"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs

> bs'd
> My wife and I discussed the HSing issue with our Rav.
> We will use the 'shaila' mode when we're talking about
> something being permissible or not, and it's a formal
> interaction that binds us to his psaq. But discussions
> actually take much more of his time for the kehilla.
> He told us that it is a [...]46_24Feb200508:37:47-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 18011 105 38_Re: Changing Lightbulbs-asking shailos11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:40:39 -0500401_- I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to this post. I enjoyed
reading all these responses, and it really gave me a new way of looking at
things, and more confidence in my ability to deal with these type of
confrontations. I think this is a great list, and i wish we could all live
together. Anybody care to start a frum homeschooling community? Maybe on a
farm?... Rivky [...]44_24Feb200508:40:39-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 18117 650 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:50:38 -0500409_iso-8859-1 Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling for financial reasonsThanks Chana for your input.

My daughter's 11- 6th grade - and we're on the brink of taking her out of school. Would my daughter be at a handicap if she wants to go back to school later on, i.e. high school, Israel, if she doesn't have a conventional yeshiva education? What if she has a good, but not typical, Judaic education at home? [...]46_24Feb200508:50:38-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 18768 99 43_Re: homeschooling/unschooling highschoolers11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:16:35 -0500563_- I am homeschooling high schoolers. So is Rena. I dont know if i have
anything great to say about what will happen as far as a year in Israel. I
can share my thoughts though for whatever its worth.
I think many of us worry about what would happen should we ever decide to
send our kids back to school. Will the schools accept them? Or will the
schools be prejudiced against them because they have been homeschooled? This
is a concern for parents not just regarding what will happen after high
school, but for many parents its a concern [...]44_24Feb200509:16:35-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 18868 62 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:23:19 -0500716_- Shoshana, thank you for this. I will check out this website. Rivky

>From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs
>Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:31:53 -0500
>
>My Rav is Rabbi Jeremy Rosen, a musmach of Mir Yeshiva in Yerushalayim,
>and graduate of Cambridge University.
>
>Among other things, he has previously taught classes to Jewish
>homeschoolers.
>
>In an article on Jewish education he wrote, "Education is the
>responsibility of the parent. Delegation is a risk. It is up to the
>parent to try to minimize that risk."
>
>Here is [...]44_24Feb200509:23:19-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 18931 116 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:28:54 -0500609_- Shoshana, dont you think if someone had an "innocent" reason for asking like
some of the ones you listed, like they are considering homeschooling
themselves, or what, that you would hear that in their tone??? I mean i
would think such a conversation would just be a friendly conversation. I
mean probably the person wouldnt JUST ask "who is your Rav?" or "Did you ask
a shaila?" but there would proabably be a smile in the person's voice, and
the person would also likely say something like "Oh you homeschool-that's so
interesting! I was thinking of doing that myself..."
This [...]44_24Feb200509:28:54-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 19048 61 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:07:17 -0500481_us-ascii >Shoshana, dont you think if someone had an "innocent" reason
>for asking like some of the ones you listed, like they are
>considering homeschooling themselves, or what, that you would
>hear that in their tone???

No, I think people very frequently misinterpret others' comments for a
variety of reasons.

And sometimes it is helpful to assume the best (judge favorably), even
if we are convinced the other person IS not asking innocently. [...]40_24Feb200510:07:17-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 19110 51 15_Re: 4 year olds12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 08:33:34 -0700524_us-ascii Another suggestion...when my youngest sister was having trouble with the
fine motor skills needed to write letters; we covered a table with
waterproof plastic and sprayed a ton of shaving cream (the cheap kind that
foams up really well) on it and she had a ball "writing" letters with her
fingers and then "erasing" them. She still has fond memories of this
activity (she is in high school now). I think it gave her the confidence to
be able to actually write with a pencil when it was time. [...]41_24Feb200508:33:34-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 19162 43 50_Re: homeschooling/unschooling highschoolers - Neve12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 09:26:35 -0700567_us-ascii >r. She went to Nivei (sp) Nivei is a seminarry in Isreal basically for
>Balei Teshuvos and those not frum yet but interrested. I dont know that
>this is a typical place for an FFB to go, and this girl is an FFB. She
>loved her stay in Isael and gained from being at Nivei where she attended
>wonderful hashkafah classes from the best lecturerers. She would call home
>to share the wonderful thoughts she learned from her teachers. My husband
>and i are both FFBs, but if my girls would agree to it, this is the
>seminarry i'd like [...]41_24Feb200509:26:35-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 19206 79 17_Re: supplementing18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:47:25 -0500602_windows-1252 bs'd
I picked a low-key school for my girls. Much less homework
than the other schools in town that are trying to prove themselves
to the New York State 4th & 8th grade test (whose results are published
in June with schools' scores).

So if my kids get their homework done right away, I allow them to
do the supplemental work. Why are they so eager? I got them
(at cdromshop.com for 1/3-2/3 the retail price) Oregon Trail,
Carmen Sandiego Math Detective, Liberty's Kids and 2 Zoombini
titles. Plus I always have a bunch of science videos out from
the [...]41_24Feb200511:47:25-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 19286 74 34_science videos; was: supplementing18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:03:11 -0500692_windows-1252 bs'd
Just want to let you know about the video series for
science put out by Schlessinger Media as a video with
media guide. 26 titles in the series, each ~15 minutes
long. The series covers many different topics.

http://www.libraryvideo.com/
The site has 3-minute free previews of each title.

Benzion Dickman

On 2/24/2005 8:37 AM, Caryn Lipson wrote:
> Don't children mind supplementing after a full day of yeshiva and homework?
>
> Caryn
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Benjamin H Dickman"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [...]41_24Feb200512:03:11-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 19361 135 38_Re: Changing Lightbulbs-asking shailos18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:07:59 -0500394_us-ascii bs'd
Rivky,

http://www.thelivingland.org
is the website for the frum farm at Amherst, MASS.

Check it out. Apply for membership. Live your dream!

And yeah, it could be nice to live on a farm in a
low-maintenance community. My Torah resources are
here in Monsey, though. And I work long and hard
and sometimes think of what could of been . [...]41_24Feb200512:07:59-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 19497 666 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:46:45 -0500410_iso-8859-1 >Thanks Chana for your input.
>
>My daughter's 11- 6th grade - and we're on the brink of taking her
>out of school. Would my daughter be at a handicap if she wants to
>go back to school later on, i.e. high school, Israel, if she doesn't
>have a conventional yeshiva education? What if she has a good, but
>not typical, Judaic education at home?
>
>Todah,
>
>Caryn [...]38_24Feb200512:46:45-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 20164 108 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:57:09 -0500501_- >
>No, I think people very frequently misinterpret others' comments for a
>variety of reasons.
>
>And sometimes it is helpful to assume the best (judge favorably), even
>if we are convinced the other person IS not asking innocently.
>
>That still doesn't mean you have to "tell all", give your reasons,
>defend your choices, explain your way of life.
>
>But others have offered excellent ideas for how to deal with even
>well-meaning but unwelcome questioning. [...]44_24Feb200512:57:09-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 20273 120 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:26:16 -0500615_us-ascii To clarify--I meant to BEHAVE as if the negative were not true, even if
in our hearts we believe it is. I think that distinction can be
made--it's kind of like "innocent until PROVEN guilty".

I agree that attributing someone's less-than-nice behavior to some
internal emotional reaction is one method of judging favorably, if you
mean you can kind of cut them a break because of it. After all, we all
have areas we are sensitive about (like having our landsmen spoken of
unpleasantly), and may react in inappropriate ways. It's part of being
human. It's ok that people are [...]40_24Feb200513:26:16-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 20394 147 11_4 year olds0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:14:00 EST359_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/24/05 1:58:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> wouldn't worry so but I'm afraid that if I
> >don't push him gently in the way I'd like him to go that he will not have
> >good study and learning habits in a couple of years when he's harder to
> >"mold". I'm open to all comments! T [...]37_24Feb200513:14:00ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 20542 41 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 11:43:23 -0800540_us-ascii Has anyone been on the shidduch merry-go-round with
their homeschooled kids yet? Can homeschooling
negatively affect things?

Alison

--- Chana Silberstein wrote:

> >Thanks Chana for your input.
> >
> >My daughter's 11- 6th grade - and we're on the
> brink of taking her
> >out of school. Would my daughter be at a handicap
> if she wants to
> >go back to school later on, i.e. high school,
> Israel, if she doesn't
> >have a conventional yeshiva education? [...]45_24Feb200511:43:23-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 20584 20 8_undigest0_17_Sarasimp7@AOL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 01:19:06 -0500466_iso-8859-1 could you remind me how to undigest?
thank you for this list.
sara simpser

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG39_24Feb200501:19:06-0500Sarasimp7@AOL.COM 20605 70 8_Undigest13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:01:41 -0800455_us-ascii This is for everyone, if you have questions about changing your settings.

Click on this web-site to get to the shamash mailing lists subscribers' page.

http://listserv.shamash.org/cgi-bin/wa?REPORT&z=3

Read the instructions on the page and you should find your way around.

Click on "log in" - it is underlined - set up a password if necessary. If you allow a cookie to be set, you won't have to log in next time. [...]41_24Feb200513:01:41-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 20676 105 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 14:56:00 -0800563_us-ascii There are no guarantees in homeschooling, any more than parenting in general. We do our best based on all the information we have at our disposal, using whatever skills we have to achieve our goals.

I can only share my own confident belief that my children will be better prepared for the future than they could have been when they were in school. I don't believe that means that the future will be free of bumps, even big bumps. I am willing to advocate for them to the degree necessary as situations arise, and find it hard to believe that [...]44_24Feb200514:56:00-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 20782 93 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:41:47 -0500572_- i've always had strong feelings on this subject. It always bothered me to
see how parents dont do what they believe is right for their child and their
family, because of fear of how it will "affect shiduchim." I have heard that
there are parents who wont put their kids in PTACH (resource room at school
for kids with learning disabilities) because they are afraid how their kid
having been in PTACH will be on the shiduch market. Better to let the kid
suffer in class, not know what's flying, feel like a dummy etc, than chas
vishalome to put [...]44_24Feb200517:41:47-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 20876 89 10_shidduchim13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:06:02 -0800516_us-ascii It doesn't seem that girls going through all the traditional academic channels are having an easy time in shidduchim - it is hard to imagine that it could be much worse for homeschoolers. I spoke with a mother who has a daughter in shidduchim less than a week ago, and I heard the same thing I have heard everywhere - it is very difficult. This girl is attractive, bright, her parents are well-known and respected in the community, and she has excellent yichus. Just one thing is missing - mega bucks. [...]44_24Feb200515:06:02-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 20966 221 14_Re: shidduchim8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:34:53 -0500576_us-ascii This was actually one of the questions I had in mind for the FAQ (or,
now, the Wiki)-"What about shidduchim?"

This has come up so many times on the list. You may want to search
through the archives.

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]40_24Feb200518:34:53-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 21188 159 23_Re: Changing Lightbulbs11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 17:58:44 -0500693_- >From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs
>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 13:26:16 -0500
>
>To clarify--I meant to BEHAVE as if the negative were not true, even if
>in our hearts we believe it is. I think that distinction can be
>made--it's kind of like "innocent until PROVEN guilty".
>
>I agree that attributing someone's less-than-nice behavior to some
>internal emotional reaction is one method of judging favorably, if you
>mean you can kind of cut them a break because of it. After all, we all
>have areas we are sensitive [...]44_24Feb200517:58:44-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 21348 53 14_Re: shidduchim18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:30:55 -0500609_us-ascii bs'd
Avivah,

Thanks for reminding me. I need to add stock market skills
to my 9 yr.old's curriculum pronto if she's going to get the
$300K she'll need to attract the right bochur. :-)
And I've got to line up a business agent for the shiddukh
process.

busy, busy, busy
Benzion Dickman

On 2/24/2005 6:06 PM, Avivah Werner wrote:
> It doesn't seem that girls going through all the traditional academic
> channels are having an easy time in shidduchim - it is hard to imagine
> that it could be much worse for homeschoolers. I spoke with a mother
[...]41_24Feb200518:30:55-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 21402 200 15_4 y.o. (repost)0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:22:07 EST664_US-ASCII this bounced from the list, I am resending it.

Also, I gave this more thought. My feelings regarding homeschooling (or to be
more specifically, chinuch in general) is this: First determine your goals
and values in the ideal/abstract. Then look at the kid realistically, as to
what/how much the kid can accomplish, also keeping in mind developmental norms
and realities (you can't expect a 3 y.o. to master Gemorrah!) After you have
determined your goals/values, then you can think about skills, attitudes and
general knowledge base. After you do that, then you can research and look for
curriculum materials/methods which [...]37_24Feb200520:22:07ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 21603 445 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 22:37:12 -0500425_iso-8859-1 Sigh of relief! Thank you for that, Rivky. You really put a :) on my face. I guess I was focusing on the issue of the textual skills too much. Hopefully, this will work well enough so that she homeschools for high school will be as well. The Israel issue, incidentally, was brought up by my daughter's principal - I would not have thought of that on my own. Neve sounds good; we are not the Bais Yaakov type. [...]46_24Feb200522:37:12-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 22049 34 14_Re: shidduchim11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:29:49 -0500530_- >From: Avivah Werner
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: [TORCH-D] shidduchim
>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 15:06:02 -0800
>

>
>I know, I am sounding cynical, so I better stop before I am too far behind!

Aviva, i sure hope you are just being cynical, because i'm feeling a litle
sick after reading this. I hope there are a few frum boys left out there who
care about what the girl herself is about. Rivky [...]44_25Feb200508:29:49-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 22084 65 14_Re: shidduchim11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:48:45 -0500614_- yes, i think it would be good to put it on the wiki. And as i've probably
said so many times before, one day we should start the "torch-d shiduch
website" frum homeschoolers from all over the world can come there to look
for shiduchim with like-minded people. I do think in general homeschoolers
tend to have some important things in common. A willingness to go against
conventionality-an ability to think for ourselves-probably more inclined to
go in for alternative medicine, etc. So we can start a frum homeschooling
dating service. People can fill out a questionaire that asks them [...]44_25Feb200508:48:45-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 22150 162 38_Re: Changing Lightbulbs-asking shailos11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:55:34 -0500726_- >From: Benjamin H Dickman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs-asking shailos
>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:07:59 -0500
>
>bs'd
>Rivky,
>
>http://www.thelivingland.org
>is the website for the frum farm at Amherst, MASS.
>
>Check it out. Apply for membership. Live your dream!

Thaks for the website. I probably would be interested in checking this out.
But dh doesnt like the idea. Oh well.
>
>And yeah, it could be nice to live on a farm in a
>low-maintenance community. My Torah resources are
>here in Monsey, though. And I work long and hard
[...]44_25Feb200508:55:34-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 22313 108 15_Re: 4 year olds12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:00:40 -0500611_iso-8859-1 I've found this to be true in a lot of areas.

Caryn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Benjamin H Dickman"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] 4 year olds

> bs'd
>
> I always found with my now 9y.o. that if I pushed something before
> she was ready, she would develop 'antibodies' to the activity and
> would reject it for a long time later. If I just said "OK, maybe
> some other time", she'd be ready to do it with goodwill not too
> many months later. That's one [...]46_25Feb200509:00:40-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 22422 59 50_Re: homeschooling/unschooling highschoolers - Neve11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:07:20 -0500565_- >I'd just like to add, from personal experience, that Neve is a wonderful
>place. I spent a (school) year there. It is a school that mostly accepts
>baalei t'shuva but I'm FFB and I went there. It accepts women from all
>different ages and all different stages of life. Since it is not made up of
>only highschool age children - it is a more mature place to learn. I also
>loved that you can really personalize your schedule there. If you don't
>want to learn any '"text" (chumash etc) that is ok, you can take classes
>in, for example, [...]44_25Feb200509:07:20-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 22482 262 14_Re: shidduchim12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:15:37 -0500479_iso-8859-1 How do you search the archives? I've been having trouble getting into it.

Caryn

----- Original Message -----
From: S Sloman
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] shidduchim

This was actually one of the questions I had in mind for the FAQ (or, now, the Wiki)-"What about shidduchim?"

This has come up so many times on the list. You may want to search through the archives. [...]46_25Feb200510:15:37-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 22745 290 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:33:35 -0500714_us-ascii I love Rabbi Rietti.

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Caryn Lipson
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:37 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling Judaic studies

We also would never have considered letting him stay home had we not
spoken to Rabbi Rietti (he has many wonderful tapes regarding family,
childrearing and marriage) who explained to us that my son is in a
different place than most of his peers (thinking concretely about his
financial and business future already), not to worry if he homeschools,
and in terms of shidduchim - he will find the girl [...]40_25Feb200512:33:35-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 23036 101 11_shidduchim?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:21:01 EST634_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/25/05 1:58:38 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Has anyone been on the shidduch merry-go-round with
> their homeschooled kids yet? Can homeschooling
> negatively affect things?
>

funny you should mention this! I have a friend who made a chasunah this week.
Her children were all homeschooled for high school. One son is married for a
while to the oldest girl in a family. My friend has now influenced her son's
mother in law and this other lady is now homeschooling some of her younger
children. The son who got married this week married [...]37_25Feb200512:21:01ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 23138 48 8_Re: Neve19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:26:45 -0500574_- I like what you said, Rena W.

I do believe that if one has the determination to learn, he/she can learn
anything and excell in it if they are in the right supportive atmosphere.

I was in a class recently where I was ahead of the class because I had more
experience in the subject, but I enjoyed it, because I approached the
class and its students in a different way. I didn't feel bored, but
learned additional things which I have missed in my prior learning. I
also learned from the questions the other students asked, which I
hadn't [...]47_25Feb200512:26:45-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 23187 58 15_Re: 4 year olds0_17_GillaWeis@AOL.COM29_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:08:58 EST538_US-ASCII I totally agree with what Rena said (wrote) , and building good work habits
have nothing to do with reading and writting at age 4. My just 4 and 5 yr old
boys are learning so many skills that will serve them well later in life - I
have older kids(my oldest is graduating high school this year) and I Know that
they do not need academic drill at age four. When they are ready they will
learn it so fast, it's like you don't start worrying that your newborn will never
toilet train at age 3 because she's so [...]37_25Feb200512:08:58ESTGillaWeis@AOL.COM 23246 40 45_Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:45:34 -0500551_- > I mean, why learn Alef Beis at 3, 4, 5, and then 6 when the reading re
> flex finally kicks in?

I do believe (and there have been many studies) that acquiring a foreign
language is much easier when done young. The part of the brain dealing with
languages seem to not work so well after a window of years, which explains
why many people who learn a foregin language when they're much older (say
high school and beyond) will have more challenges, unless they've been
exposed to multiple languages when they were young. [...]47_25Feb200512:45:34-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 23287 67 14_Re: shidduchim15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:32:26 -0800398_us-ascii This seems to be more descriptive of the New York
scene, from what little I've heard about traditional
shidduchim. Once you "leave town", the money issue is
a little less prevalent. There have been several
well-respected families from the St. Louis area who
married off kids, and I don't think a large dowry was
part of the deal, with the exception of one shidduch. [...]45_25Feb200510:32:26-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 23355 81 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:24:02 -0800370_us-ascii All the studies I have seen regarding the importance of immersion have referred to children aquiring the verbal skills of language, and the importance of children hearing it spoken. I don't believe it refers to sitting two year olds down and teaching them visual letters. Children's eyes and brains aren't usually ready to process that much at that point. [...]44_25Feb200511:24:02-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 23437 103 14_Re: shidduchim13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 11:43:25 -0800558_us-ascii I am already adding stock market skills to my kids education (my 11 yo opened his stock account and purchased his first stocks this week). My girls (8.5 and 10) are getting ready to purchase their first stocks (we are waiting to get all the info packets from the various companies we are interested in), and I highly doubt that after watching their money grow very slowly in the next ten years (since the major benefits of compounding occur after 20 - 30 years) they will want to blow it all to attract some immature young man who hasn't taken [...]44_25Feb200511:43:25-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 23541 85 29_Re: Neve (seminary in Israel)12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:46:35 -0700596_iso-8859-1 >>By the way, does, or did, Tziporah Heller teach at Neve? How about Rabbi
Cordozo? If these are the type of teachers you get there, i'm signing up
today :-) Rivky

Rebbetzin Heller does indeed teach there and her classes are
amazing. Rabbi Cordozo did not teach there when I was there, I don't know
about today. I was telling someone else about Neve yesterday ...and I
couldn't say enough nice things about it. For me, it really grounded me in
my Yiddishkeit and I was able to learn a lot while developing relationships
with amazing mentors as well as [...]41_25Feb200512:46:35-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 23627 43 20_Where we are located12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:45:59 -0500475_US-ASCII Another thing for the Wiki.

There is a page on the Wiki to list the members
http://www.riters.com/JewishHomeschool/index.cgi/MemberList
Its just Name Hometown Country Children
You go there and add your info, and even start a page for your family
or link to your own web site. Or if you would like, you can send me
the info and I can add it for you. You can be as precise or as vague
as you feel comfortable with since it is on the web. [...]44_25Feb200514:45:59-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 23671 59 14_Re: shidduchim12_Judith Cohen22_judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:49:51 -0500335_UTF-8 I added a link to the wiki for Beyond Homeschooling which includes
pages for College and Shidduchim, but they are empty - someone please
post some info on those subjects.

There is also a link for High school, since that has been a discussion
- again, my kids are little, so I know nothing about the subject. [...]44_25Feb200514:49:51-0500judith.cohen@GMAIL.COM 23731 76 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 15:02:41 -0500560_- I must respond to this. We had taken our 8 year old out of school in the
middle of first grade. As i mentioned before, he has a developmental
disorder. My husband learned chumash with him, but he wasnt always very
cooperative, i did some parsha with him and some reading, but it wasnt much-
a little here and there. dh really felt he should go back to school and
didnt think the homeschooling was working out. I explained to my husband
that homeschooling is not suppose to be like school. That you dont have to
drill the kid's head [...]44_25Feb200515:02:41-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 23808 307 14_Re: shidduchim14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:04:58 -0600653_iso-8859-1 Go, lady!!

I agree 100%. What broker are you using for your kids' accounts?

-Bill Bernstein
Nashville
----- Original Message -----
From: Avivah Werner
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] shidduchim

I am already adding stock market skills to my kids education (my 11 yo opened his stock account and purchased his first stocks this week). My girls (8.5 and 10) are getting ready to purchase their first stocks (we are waiting to get all the info packets from the various companies we are interested in), and I highly doubt that after watching their [...]49_25Feb200514:04:58-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 24116 59 6_stocks13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 12:19:18 -0800394_us-ascii My son is using Scottrade and made his initial purchase online (I did take him to a local office to set it up, just so he really felt that he was doing something concrete). He has ordered a certificate of purchase so he can directly enroll in the company's dividend reinvestment plan, and future stock purchases will be made through them, for which there is no additional charge. [...]44_25Feb200512:19:18-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 24176 189 10_Re: stocks14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:27:26 -0600643_iso-8859-1 Does Scotttrade charge an inactivity fee?
Maybe you could teach him the "Rule of 72" for compounding returns.
KT
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Avivah Werner
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:19 PM
Subject: [TORCH-D] stocks

My son is using Scottrade and made his initial purchase online (I did take him to a local office to set it up, just so he really felt that he was doing something concrete). He has ordered a certificate of purchase so he can directly enroll in the company's dividend reinvestment plan, and future stock purchases will be made through them, [...]49_25Feb200514:27:26-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 24366 273 10_Re: stocks15_Kinta K. Telano20_kintakay@NETZERO.NET31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:53:21 -0600611_iso-8859-1 I just wanted to applaud Avivah: Great move in the financial education of your children! I began teaching my son about banking, budgeting and financial goal planning about a year ago, when he was 8 years old. We also follow the stock market together and keep abreast of business news with a couple of free newsletters, if anyone else is interested in this they can visit reuters.com, morningstar.com and forbes.com. Our brokerage account is with Etrade and I'm sure it's like most accounts with online access, a great resource for teaching and staying updated with the latest news and research, [...]42_25Feb200516:53:21-0600kintakay@NETZERO.NET 24640 121 10_Re: stocks13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 16:56:21 -0800312_us-ascii No inactivity fee with Scottrade, as long as you have money in the account. Since my son is transferring his account to the company he is purchasing the stocks with, he is leaving $5 in his Scottrade account to keep it open. Then he doesn't have to save another $500 to start over again with them. [...]44_26Feb200516:56:21-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 24762 88 14_Re: shidduchim11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:13:50 -0500724_- Alison, glad to hear there may be some hope. Maybe someone should start the
"Unconventional Shiduch website" for all of us who are so crazy as to
homeschool, do homebirths, go in for homeopathy and the like. Rivky

>From: Alison Jacobson
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] shidduchim
>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 10:32:26 -0800
>
>This seems to be more descriptive of the New York
>scene, from what little I've heard about traditional
>shidduchim. Once you "leave town", the money issue is
>a little less prevalent. There have been several
>well-respected families from the St. [...]44_26Feb200520:13:50-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 24851 84 14_Re: shidduchim11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:10:19 -0500686_- Judith, can you remind me again-step by step instructions please-on how to
add things to the wiki? For starters, i'd like to add my name to the members
lsit. rivky

>From: Judith Cohen
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] shidduchim
>Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2005 14:49:51 -0500
>
>I added a link to the wiki for Beyond Homeschooling which includes
>pages for College and Shidduchim, but they are empty - someone please
>post some info on those subjects.
>
>There is also a link for High school, since that has been a discussion
>- again, my [...]44_26Feb200520:10:19-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 24936 336 10_Re: stocks14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:23:08 -0600584_iso-8859-1 Thanks for the info on Scottrade. I will look them up.

Basically, in the Rule of 72: take the interest rate and divide it into 72 and this will tell you how long it will take for the money to double. For example, if you invested money at 10% then it would double in value every 7.2 years. At 8% it would be 9 years. A very valuable and quick calculation.
Gut Woche,
Bill Bernstein
Nashville.
----- Original Message -----
From: Avivah Werner
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] stocks [...]49_26Feb200519:23:08-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 25273 89 11_shidduchim?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:12:08 EST627_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/26/05 1:58:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> It doesn't seem that girls going through all the traditional academic
> > channels are having an easy time in shidduchim - i

I was recently talking with someone about this topic and I made the
observation that the reason that there are "no good guys" is because the boy's chinuch
system is not as good as the girls, there are some real problems in terms of
successful chinuch in the boy's system, leading to more "quality" girls than
"quality boys", hence the inequity and difficulties in [...]37_26Feb200521:12:08ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 25363 39 6_stocks15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 19:41:54 -0700562_- We are using Dave Ramsey's financial advice to teach our kids, which is NO
DEBT and investing in mutual funds. He has a kid's program called
"Financial Peace Jr." which really teaches concretely how work = money. My
husband and I have been "working the plan" for a year and a half, which
encouraged us to downsize our home in half and unload the mortgage debt
considerably. It really is such a common sense program: saving, investing,
no debt, no credit, and the beauty of compounding interest......the stuff
bubbe used to tell you:) [...]47_26Feb200519:41:54-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 25403 86 33_Re: Shidduchim/financial planning0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:47:32 EST651_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/26/05 1:58:10 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> What broker are you using for your kids' accounts?
>
>

Don't use a broker, go through the companies directly and reinvest the
dividends, using the DRIP (direct reinvestment that Avivah mentioned). For more
info on this, read "The Meister Plan" by Dr. Tuvia Meister, published by
Artscroll or Feldheim or one of the other frummie publishing companies. In his book,
Dr. Meister clearly outlines his financial plan. Not only does he do this, but
he also outlines his background as a baal teshuvah, now he came [...]37_26Feb200521:47:32ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 25490 59 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 23:36:05 -0500410_- I believe if the 2nd language is acquired as naturally as possible as one
would acquire one's mother tongue, which includes conversation, reading
plenty of literature (picture books w/ words), playing with word games,
(rhyming, opposites, etc.) recognizing the letters, puzzles, etc. that would
definitely help with the brain making its connections in the most optimal
place and fashion. [...]47_26Feb200523:36:05-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 25550 47 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:00:00 -0500420_- I was only focusing on languages in my post, but in general, if you discover
that your child has certain special abilities, then by all means be
pro-active and help them flourish in their G-d given talents. Everyone has
some kind of lacking in some way, but I'm not focusing on that. Helping the
child advance in his/her special gifts help tremendously in boosting
self-esteem and self-confidence. [...]47_27Feb200500:00:00-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 25598 138 10_Re: stocks12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:06:48 -0500372_iso-8859-1 Shavua Tov,

I was very interested to read what you are doing regarding the stocks since my son is very interested in securing his financial future. He was, incidentally, introduced to all this through Rich Dad, Poor Dad and is really pushing us in this direction now. He's interested in flipping real estate - does anyone have experience with this? [...]46_27Feb200509:06:48-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 25737 75 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:18:58 -0500594_iso-8859-1 My husband comes from Toronto, where they have French immersion schools. The
kids come out learning English as well, although I think spelling and
grammar do suffer for a time.

I think this is what Ivrit b'Ivrit is supposed to be. It's a shame many
yeshivot don't pay enough attention to this. My son was in yeshiva through
8th grade, my daughter, who we are now pulling out, has been in yeshiva
through half of 6th grade. I don't think either one of them has ever had to
write a chibur (Hebrew composition), and they certainly don't have a command
[...]46_27Feb200509:18:58-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 25813 69 49_Re: shidduchim and schooling in the Jewish papers12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:59:12 -0500586_iso-8859-1 It's not just the money issue that could be a problem. Read on.

This week's Hamodia - In the first section (page 7) there is a letter
regarding sem choices: Seminary Choices Should Not Cause Pain. Among the
problems with girls who do not get accepted to Seminary (high application
fees limit the number of schools they can apply to)- is the loss of a chance
for a good shidduch! These families "hang their heads in shame and pain and
cry out to the Eibeshter."
The Jewish Press (page M9), along the same line, has a poem about Seminary
Blues [...]46_27Feb200509:59:12-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 25883 114 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)12_Caryn Lipson24_caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:32:21 -0500598_iso-8859-1 Rivky,

Why did you take him out of school in the first place? Was he learning more
in school than at home? Was he more cooperative there?
Might it also be that if your child is having difficulty in school, that
keeping him there at a young and formative age, would hurt him more than
help. Yes, kids do absorb a lot, including negative perceptions about
themselves from teachers and other students that can stay with them for
life.
http://www.torahtots.com/ might be a good site to go to with him. There's a
lot about the Parshiot and chagim for kids [...]46_27Feb200511:32:21-0500caryn_lipson@HOTMAIL.COM 25998 40 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:14:57 -0500631_us-ascii Young children DO learn a tremendous amount. But they do best with
learning that is developmentally appropriate.
Children at age 2 have an "explosion" in vocabulary learning.. as
many as five or ten new words a day.
Talking to them, reading to them, introducing Hebrew words or
phrases, exposing them to a Hebrew-speaking friend, telling them
stories from the Torah and Midrash and Talmud, introducing them to
mitzvos and stories from Jewish history etc.--all of these are
appropriate for 2, and 3 and 4 year olds and beyond. Seeing the holy
letters of the Alef Bais, learning to call them [...]38_27Feb200515:14:57-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 26039 74 38_Re: Changing Lightbulbs-asking shailos17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:16:54 -0500768_us-ascii >>From: Benjamin H Dickman
>>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Changing Lightbulbs-asking shailos
>>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 12:07:59 -0500
>>
>>bs'd
>>Rivky,
>>
>>http://www.thelivingland.org
>>is the website for the frum farm at Amherst, MASS.
>>
>>

Unfortunately, this project fell through and is now defunct.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/38_27Feb200515:16:54-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 26114 251 16_defunct projects8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:50:10 -0500465_US-ASCII > Unfortunately, this project fell through and is now defunct.

What project? The frum farm in Amherst? When did this happen?

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

_____

The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network
, a service of Hebrew College
, which offers online courses and an online
MA in Jewish Studies . [...]40_27Feb200516:50:10-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 26366 74 14_Jewish farming13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:56:37 -0800483_us-ascii This article from one of our local Jewish newspapers is in response to Lawrence Summers' (Harvard Pres.) recent remarks about Jews and farming.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=10572

It mentions the Eretz Chaim - and seems to indicate it is quite alive.

Also featured in the article is a Rabbi Shmuel Simenowitz now of Vermont, but a former LI entertainment lawyer, who sounds strangely like the guy we know here as "Steve" [...]41_27Feb200515:56:37-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 26441 360 18_Re: Jewish farming8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:17:29 -0500600_US-ASCII Yes, we had the pleasure of staying with the Simenowitz's (of torch-d)
on their farm in Vermont some years ago. Absolutely lovely family
(k"h)!

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Barbara Mazor
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 6:57 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] Jewish farming

This article from one of our local Jewish newspapers is in response to
Lawrence Summers' (Harvard Pres.) recent remarks about Jews and farming. [...]40_27Feb200519:17:29-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 26802 175 32_Re: homeschooling Judaic studies11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:14:04 -0500652_- Caryn, i plan on sending you a private email regarding this post, and the
one you sent about why we pulled our son out of school in the first place.
Be patient please til i get around to doing so. Rivky

>From: Caryn Lipson
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] homeschooling Judaic studies
>Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 22:37:12 -0500
>
>Sigh of relief! Thank you for that, Rivky. You really put a :) on my face.
>I guess I was focusing on the issue of the textual skills too much.
>Hopefully, this will work well [...]44_27Feb200520:14:04-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 26978 135 41_Re: shidduchim/schooling in jewish papers0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:23:40 EST595_US-ASCII Caryn

Kudos to you for reading so with so much analysis!

If we are going to dissect this week's jewish papers, here's one I submit for
comment:

Please read Dr. Yael's column in the middle section of the jewish press. In
brief, a young woman writes in that she is feeling "overwhelmed" by her
mothering responsibilities, and does not know how other people do it. She does have
a baby and a toddler, I don't know how many other older kids, she does not
say. My take on it, reading between the lines, the lady was asking for a
perspective/heter [...]37_28Feb200510:23:40ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 27114 61 11_shidduchim?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:07:31 EST649_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/28/05 1:58:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> for all of us who are so crazy as to
> homeschool, do homebirths, go in for homeopathy and the like

great idea! Sign me up. Otherwise, I might be accused of having ruined my
kids for life.

Rena in Baltimore

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]37_28Feb200510:07:31ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 27176 40 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:42:11 -0500663_- This is my thinking about learning Torah and Hebrew.
I was very intimidated by the way of learning Torah in Hebrew directly without
prior background in Hebrew as a living language. So, I learned Hebrew first
as a living language - meaning using Modern Hebrew style (conversation,
reading, comprehension). A lot of ulpan-based texts are w/o vowels.
Then I learn dikduk (long/short vowels, syllables, spellings, grammar rules)
for Modern Hebrew, some of which applicable to Chumash Hebrew.
Then I got the confidence to jump
into translating Chumash (after having a lot of simple vocabulary from
Modern Hebrew, and learning Chumash [...]47_28Feb200512:42:11-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 27217 89 22_Re: financial planning13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 11:53:03 -0800421_us-ascii Sometimes it is necessary to use a broker, as initial shares of stock aren't available directly. This was the case with the company Elazar is purchasing from - he needed to have one share of stock before he can enroll in their DRIP, but the first share can't be purchased directly from them. And to buy one share through a broker means that you need to have the minimum amount necessary to open an account. [...]44_28Feb200511:53:03-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 27307 76 18_Re: Jewish farming17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:22:43 -0500587_us-ascii >This article from one of our local Jewish newspapers is in response
>to Lawrence Summers' (Harvard Pres.) recent remarks about Jews and
>farming.
>
>http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=10572
>
>It mentions the Eretz Chaim - and seems to indicate it is quite alive.
>
>Also featured in the article is a Rabbi Shmuel Simenowitz now of
>Vermont, but a former LI entertainment lawyer, who sounds strangely
>like the guy we know here as "Steve"
>
>Barbara [...]38_28Feb200514:22:43-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 27384 24 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:31:34 -0500579_us-ascii Moriah, like you, I have always found it helpful to to introduce
Chumash once there is already some familiarity with basic Hebrew
vocabulary ( which pre-schoolers absorb like sponges).

BTW, met friends of yours over the weekend :-).

Chana

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_28Feb200514:31:34-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 27409 231 66_Re: JP/Respler column letter about overworked mother of young kids17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:39:53 -0500592_us-ascii Yes, Rena, I read this letter too. I would agree with you that more
time at home can often result in less burnout.

An interesting aspect of this letter is that part of what was
overwhelming this mother was CLEANING UP after her kids. As in
constantly. Picking up after one while the others were playing, then
picking up after the other, and finding she could spend the entire
three hours between coming home from work and hubby's homecoming,and
the house would still be a mess when he came in.This is something I
think we have discussed on this list [...]38_28Feb200514:39:53-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 27641 96 49_Re: Learning a foregin language (re: 4 year olds)17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:45:59 -0500612_us-ascii I know many kids from schools in Quebec, where it is mandated that
the school be run in French ( at least the secular subjects). The
kids come out with very poor English, and their French is not that
great either.
A lot of the research on immersion suggests it works best when 1)
there is systematic language instruction in the primary language 2)
the languages are offered in the context of an authentic language
community by fluent speakers of the language ( the Ivrit b'ivrit
teacher, in other words, must be fluent.
Mere "exposure" to two languages doesn't necessary [...]38_28Feb200514:45:59-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 27738 63 29_What did you tell your child?15_Nicole Brackman18_drnb1969@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:36:45 -0800572_us-ascii BS"D

Hi all!

We are leaning more and more heavily toward homeschooling, but I haven't made up my mind altogether as of yet. And as I do more research and reading, of course the financial reasons (yeshiva tuition) are still important but fading in prominence. I have read a couple Linda Dobson books this past week (The First Year of Homeschooling was excellent and gave me a sense of relief) and right now I'm reading "Teach Your Own" and have about a dozen books on reserve at the library. Can you tell I'm a little obsessive when it comes to [...]40_28Feb200512:36:45-0800drnb1969@YAHOO.COM 27802 48 22_Re: financial planning15_Alison Jacobson23_alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:39:14 -0800391_us-ascii I am a HUGE fan of The Tightwad Gazette. Own all 3
books and everything. She is very funny and real, and
refused to capitalize on her success once she realized
she had covered most frugal ground.

As far as Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I thought that Robert
Kiyosaki was found to be a bit of a scam artist. So
I'm a little leery of bringing his books into my home. [...]45_28Feb200512:39:14-0800alisonziskind@YAHOO.COM 27851 226 22_Re: financial planning14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:35:19 -0600505_iso-8859-1 I agree with you Aviva that DRIP plans are good IF:
1) The company has such a plan
2) You are going to buy and hold the stock over a long period of time. This in itself is not a bad idea. When I was 13 I bought 10 shares of then Scott Paper for a total of $170. I still own the merged company, Kimberly Clark, and 30 years later my investment is worth over $4,000.
But that kind of investing is not always feasible so using a broker is a good idea. The key is cost. Scottrade and [...]49_28Feb200515:35:19-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 28078 321 33_Re: What did you tell your child?12_Rachel Moore24_racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:42:39 -0500582_iso-8859-1 Hi Nicole,

I think my "story" may be a little bit of what you are looking for, although I am not sure. My daughter is hschooled for the first (possibly only) time this year; she is 5 right now. She attended (part time) two years at a Jewish Montessori Preschool. She is a Dec. birthday, and this made it more difficult to assess what grade she should be entering. She LOVED her preschool. She was soaring ahead academically, but suffering in terms of emotional and social development. Because she was in an age-integrated classroom of kids 3-6 years old, she [...]46_28Feb200516:42:39-0500racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET