1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d December 2004 2 91 69_Re: [TORCH-D:2370] RE: A day in Homeschooling--Answers to Brenda/Rena15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 30 Nov 2004 08:24:22 -0700454_- I agree with Russell, that the WHY of hschooling may make all the difference
in one's success. I also think it is important to have a "vision" of what
you want your family to look like and what you hope to accomplish. I don't
know any successful hschoolers that are vague about that; it is just too
challenging at times to perservere it you don't really know (on a deep
level) why you are going so against the standard methodology. [...]47_30Nov200408:24:22-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 94 54 20_description of a day12_David Horesh20_dhoresh@HOTBREAD.NET30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 21:17:57 -0900556_US-ASCII I have been enjoying the recent posts about a "typical" day - if there is
such a thing. We have a hybrid day - structured academic time in the
morning and less structured time in the afternoon with many similar
activities as listed by Avivah.

We are enrolled in a school district so we must meet the basic requirements
set forth and report quarterly on our children's progress in relation to
their Individual Education Plans. In turn, we receive financial assistance
in purchasing materials for each of our children. [...]41_1Dec200421:17:57-0900dhoresh@HOTBREAD.NET 149 83 39_Re: [TORCH-D:2355] RE: Shalom Aleichem!11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 2 Dec 2004 14:37:23 -0500563_- My in-laws are in LA. It is okay, and even good to research things way in
advance. I wish i knew about homeschooling while my kids were younger-like
when they were babies, or before they were born, so i could have researched
the subject of homeschooling and different homeschooling styles etc. Now i
feel like i have to do the research, while my kids need to be educated NOW-
i dont feel like i have the "space" the "tranquility" to do this research in
peace. I'm groping for words here- i hope i'm making some sense. I had just
meant [...]43_2Dec200414:37:23-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 233 114 39_Re: [TORCH-D:2355] RE: Shalom Aleichem!16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 2 Dec 2004 21:01:16 -0800571_ISO-8859-1 I understand! No, I'm not worrying, thanks!
Brenda

Rivky Kahan wrote:

> My in-laws are in LA. It is okay, and even good to research things
> way in
> advance. I wish i knew about homeschooling while my kids were
> younger-like
> when they were babies, or before they were born, so i could have
> researched
> the subject of homeschooling and different homeschooling styles etc.
> Now i
> feel like i have to do the research, while my kids need to be educated
> NOW-
> i dont feel like i have the "space" the [...]42_2Dec200421:01:16-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 348 96 20_Description of a day13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:43:21 -0800574_us-ascii Shamash has upgraded it's list server software. If you notice the list address is now :

Torch-d@listserv.shamash.org

We will be sending information shortly about the changes to the list. For the most part it should not effect the way the lists works and make it better for you.

Last weekend 3 messages came in before the upgrade, but I did not get to see them until after the upgrade went into effect. It took a couple of days to realize this is what happened. Then end of the week was a little hectic for me. Anyway, I figure the easiest [...]40_4Dec200415:43:21-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 445 86 46_A day in Homeschooling--Answers to Brenda/Rena13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:45:02 -0800716_us-ascii This message is also from Brenda.

From:"Brenda Goldstein" To:torch-d@shamash.orgSubject:Re: [TORCH-D:2370] RE: A day in Homeschooling--Answers to Brenda/Rena

I want to homeschool because 1) it's the best way for a child to learn (as opposed to the classroom where it's 20 children, of varying abilities, to one teacher); 2) tuition for day school is very expensive; 3) the traditional school day for a frum kid is very long, with both limudei kodesh and limudei chol squeezed in; and 4) kids attending day schools don't receive enough (if any) physical education.BrendaRussell J Hendel wrote:>Brenda /Rena>>Welcome to the group.>>Two small pieces of advice.>>First [...]40_4Dec200415:45:02-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 532 73 9_Baltimore13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 15:47:20 -0800601_us-ascii And this is from Rena Levin

From:RENALEVIN@aol.comTo:torch-d@shamash.orgSubject:Re: baltimore
In a message dated 11/26/04 11:54:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, torch-d@shamash.org writes:

the Landos, just moved to Baltimore. She
worked as a teacher for 19 years in L.A., and he worked as a rebbe

They just moved into the neighborhood, they are aroudn the corner from Avivah and I, and daven at the same shul that my family goes to. Chayim Lando is originally from Baltimore and Miriam has a sister who lives here too, so in a way, this was a homecoming for them. [...]40_4Dec200415:47:20-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 606 102 13_Re: Baltimore0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM28_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:03:22 EST592_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/4/2004 6:52:37 PM Eastern Standard Time,
barbmazor@YAHOO.COM writes:

> They just moved into the neighborhood, they are aroudn the corner from
> Avivah and I, and daven at the same shul that my family goes to. Chayim Lando is
> originally from Baltimore and Miriam has a sister who lives here too, so in
> a way, this was a homecoming for them.
>
> While they are not homeschooling, Rabbi Lando is working in the community
> kollel which is a resource that a number of homeschooling families with older
> boys use for limudei [...]40_4Dec200420:03:22ESTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 709 167 13_Re: Baltimore16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:08:14 -0800624_us-ascii That's so great that you know them, Rena and Avivah! Also, thanks for
letting me know that kollel is a resource for homeshoolers with older boys.
Gut Voch,
Brenda

Barbara Mazor wrote:

> And this is from Rena Levin
>
>
> From: RENALEVIN@aol.com
> To: torch-d@shamash.org
> Subject: Re: baltimore
>
>
> In a message dated 11/26/04 11:54:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> torch-d@shamash.org writes:
>
>
>> the Landos, just moved to Baltimore. She
>> worked as a teacher for 19 years in L.A., and he worked as a rebbe
>
>
>
> They just moved [...]42_4Dec200420:08:14-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 877 24 9_Baltimore16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 20:12:11 -0800512_us-ascii Rena and Avivah,

How much do houses (3-bedroom) cost in your area, and how much would it
be to rent a 3-bedroom apt., or house for that matter.

Thanks and Gut Voch,
Brenda

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]42_4Dec200420:12:11-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 902 93 41_Yaldah magazine - article in Boston Globe13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Dec 2004 20:13:35 -0800570_us-ascii I have received the first issue of YALDAH magazine, and was impressed with how well put-together it was. Two of my daughters were interviewed for her article on homeschooling, in which they shared details about a day in their life as homeschoolers. I highly recommend the magazine for girls, not just because you can admire murky pictures of my daughters (g), but because it is a great resource. If we want to see magazines such as these for our children, then we need to be supportive of the efforts that are made to create them. (To order, send $4.95 to [...]43_5Dec200420:13:35-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 996 49 9_mazel tov13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:55:41 -0800632_us-ascii Mazel tov to Moriah Chesler on the birth of Chana Shifra, born on November 28th! She is an extremely cute and photogenic baby. :)

Many good wishes to Moriah and her family!

Avivah

---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]43_5Dec200419:55:41-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1046 60 18_attention lurkers!13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:17:35 -0800317_us-ascii I saw last night that we have over 150 members on this list, and in the four years that I have been a member, I estimate that I have seen postings from 30 at most (that includes people who sent one time messages introducing themselves). That means about 120 of you aren't actively participating at all! [...]43_6Dec200412:17:35-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1107 71 13_Re: Baltimore13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 15:46:11 -0500582_- Regarding Baltimore, I have written lots in the past, and don't want to go
over it again for the sake of all those who are aren't interested. :)

In short, Baltimore is not cheap (average three bedroom homes go from 200k
to 375k - very little in the 200k range). Rents for that size home go
from about $1200 to 1900, depending on the area. It is a large frum
community, many shuls, not much sense of belonging to the general
community. A person belongs by attaching themselves to smaller
institutions, etc. Most moms make friends with the people they [...]43_6Dec200415:46:11-0500avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1179 97 22_Re: attention lurkers!13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:58:55 -0800536_us-ascii I wanted to clarify the intent and tone of my post. I wrote it because it is very likely that there are some on the list who may feel hesitant to actively participate even though they could benefit. I did not in any way mean to belittle anyone who chooses to enjoy the reading but doesn't wish to participate, for whatever reason. (I myself regularly frequent an unschooling discussion board and have gained alot from it though I have almost never posted to it, so I understand that a person can benefit without posting.) [...]43_6Dec200417:58:55-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 1277 220 22_Re: attention lurkers!14_Melissa Newman24_Melissa@NEWMANFAMILY.ORG30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:51:38 -0500510_iso-8859-1 Since I just joined today I am member 151, so I will introduce myself. My name is Melissa, and my family lives in Elizabeth, NJ. We have 2 sons. One is 4 1/2 and the other will be 1 on Dec. 14th. My husband very much wants to homeschool. I have the attitude of taking things one year at a time, and doing what is best for our children. Right now that is enrolling my son in the local Chabad school. I am doing this for two reasons. One, socialization. I think that will change when he is 6 yrs [...]45_6Dec200417:51:38-0500Melissa@NEWMANFAMILY.ORG 1498 117 13_Re: Baltimore14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 20:04:46 -0600347_iso-8859-1 I've chewed over this post a little. Maybe someone can answer a basic
question: why would anyone want to live in a place like that?
I understand the usual reasons are:
1) Ready availability of goods and services of interest to Orthodox people.
2) Large group of peers to socialize with, marry into etc.
3) ummm..... [...]48_6Dec200420:04:46-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 1616 83 22_Re: attention lurkers!11_Sara Morrow21_saracmorrow@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 12:32:02 -0800545_us-ascii Aviva - I think that was a little harsh. I have been lurking for over two years. I have written twice and received great responses. Once I responded to someone else because I had the information she needed. Otherwise, I generally print out the digest and read it before I go to bed, just before I daven. I find that that works for me and that I have no time to sit online and read all the responses let alone answer even one everyday. I really can't figure out how the "regulars" find the time to conduct on-going conversations on [...]42_6Dec200412:32:02-0800saracmorrow@YAHOO.COM 1700 413 22_Re: attention lurkers!8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 03:45:10 -0500351_US-ASCII Hi, Sara!

You are absolutely right that everyone should take from the list what
they can and use it in the way that is best for them.

But please don't feel that Avivah was being harsh. I read her tone as
an enthusiastic reaching out to those who may feel too shy or believe
they don't have anything to contribute. [...]39_7Dec200403:45:10-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 2114 319 22_Re: attention lurkers!14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 20:25:13 -0600523_iso-8859-1 Melissa,
I can tell you my experience now that we are in the second year of HS. When we started I was so anxious that I wanted everything to be just like "real" school. I had subjects organized, textbooks, periods for each subject etc etc. I even called role the first day.
We spent 4 hours the first day (my son was 8 almost 9). At the end we were both exhausted. After a while there were some things my son liked and some he really hated. I could have battled him every day to do the stuff he hated [...]48_6Dec200420:25:13-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 2434 23 22_Re: attention lurkers!19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM28_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:38:40 GMT547_- Avivah, your message was a reminder that I needed to hear! I do have alot of questions that I would love to ask but I don't always have time to post them! But since I am writing now...

has anyone had experience with a school requesting educational testing for their child? I am referring to a child who has no behavior issues in school but just seems to space out? What kinds of testing are there and is there any specific advise anyone can offer. This paritcular child is eight years old and just in school for hebrew. I homeschool [...]38_7Dec200415:38:40GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 2458 250 22_Re: attention lurkers!14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:56:19 -0600539_iso-8859-1 Thanks for getting on to me! I got so behind with the group emails I was out of the loop for a while. There is not a frum community here so we're on our own anyway. It's sad that one would have a problem with homeschooling in frum communities. Am I understanding that correctly? What about Sara? Did she send Yitzchok away to Yeshiva? I don't think she did... Even religious schools can have problems with the children. As far as socialization, I say.. "one does not have to swim in the sewer to know what is in it". Don't [...]44_6Dec200414:56:19-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 2709 109 21_[BULK] Re: Baltimore?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:44:27 EST598_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/6/04 1:57:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> How much do houses (3-bedroom) cost in your area, and how much would it
> be to rent a 3-bedroom apt., or house for that matter.
>
>

Hahahahahahahahah! don't mean to laugh, but this is so funny, since
Baltimore is the 6th highest city in the U.S. right now in terms of housing costs,
more so in the frum community due to geographic desirability issues (only so many
houses close to x amount of shuls, means that housing prices goes wayyyyy
up!) [...]36_6Dec200418:44:27ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 2819 76 30_[BULK] RE: [TORCH-D] mazel tov11_Susan Lapin20_suelap@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 14:43:59 -0800522_iso-8859-1 Moriah,

Mazal tov! As a hschooling newborn, I hope she learns to quickly sleep
through the night with great enthusiasm so you can keep doing all the
wonderful things you do.

Susan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]41_6Dec200414:43:59-0800suelap@EARTHLINK.NET 2896 37 15_welcome melissa15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 09:08:51 -0700613_- Welcome Melissa,

It sounds like you have great ideas for your homeschool. In addition to the
excellent Judaic books you mentioned, the Artscroll Children's Siddur is
great too.

I've used "canned" curriculum and done my own thing, depending on our lives
each year. This year for secular with my 4th grader, I'm using Calvert,
since he basically does it on his own. I have much more free time not
having to plan everything now. We modify it. If his composition calls for
a shape planner, we make the topic Judaic (parsha, holiday,etc). We are
using their math for my first [...]46_7Dec200409:08:51-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 2934 82 26_About the listserv upgrade13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:35:30 -0800351_us-ascii Since I have received a few questions about the upgrade, I am going to answer them here publicly. If you have any other questions, please post them to the list, because someone else, probably has a similar question.

First of all, the list has a new address. If you have torch-d in your address book, please change the address to: [...]40_7Dec200408:35:30-0800barbmazor@YAHOO.COM 3017 401 27_Re: In defense of baltimore0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:41:27 EST420_US-ASCII bill: you make some good points. The reason we are here are well thought out
choices. My husband and I both grew up here, though both sets of parents are
gone, we feel deep roots and connection to the community. We did spend the
early years of our marriage in NY and everything you said about big city
living applies to our experience in NY, which is why we moved back to Baltimore in
1985! [...]36_7Dec200412:41:27ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 3419 73 13_Re: mazel tov13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:21:25 -0800371_us-ascii Susan,

And a mazel tov to you, too! I just heard a couple of days ago that Rebecca had her second boy!

Avivah

Susan Lapin wrote:
Moriah,

Mazal tov! As a hschooling newborn, I hope she learns to quickly sleep through the night with great enthusiasm so you can keep doing all the wonderful things you do. [...]43_7Dec200412:21:25-0800avivahwerner@YAHOO.COM 3493 65 9_mazel tov14_Wendy and Jess15_viking@STIS.NET30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 17:52:06 -0500477_iso-8859-1 She's here! :)
9 lbs, 2 oz.

Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam, born at home 12/4/04!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]36_7Dec200417:52:06-0500viking@STIS.NET 3559 624 30_Changes to listserver software8_S Sloman18_ssloman@NETLAB.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:03:36 -0500642_US-ASCII As you are aware, Shamash has upgraded their mailing list software.
(BTW, I intend to change that confirmation setting so you won't have to
keep doing that every time you submit a post.)

This will make the torch-d list easier to use for you and easier for
me to operate. You will notice that email attachments, graphics and
other HTML
will show up more easily. Also, digests (when configured correctly for
your
email program) will not have those extra annoying characters that you
have
seen in the past. Shamash is upgrading to ListServ software (an
up-to-date mailing
list software used [...]39_7Dec200420:03:36-0500ssloman@NETLAB.COM 4184 89 19_Educational testing13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 04:37:17 -0800587_us-ascii Malki wrote:

>>has anyone had experience with a school requesting educational testing for their child? I am referring to a child who has no behavior issues in school but just seems to space out? What kinds of testing are there and is there any specific advise anyone can offer. This paritcular child is eight years old and just in school for hebrew. I homeschool him in the afternoon. The rest of my children are homeschooled fulltime. To explain the situation further, he is in school because he needs a lot of structure and I felt I couldn't accommodate that need [...]40_8Dec200404:37:17-0800barbmazor@yahoo.com 4274 38 9_community15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:28:02 -0700462_- The discussion between Bill and Rena is very interesting and I think
illustrates how different personality types function better in different
settings. Rena's discription of Baltimore sounds very nice, however, I am
hardwired much more like Bill. Living just outside a community (with easy
access) works best for us. Having said that, a new Chabad house just moved
in almost across the street, so I guess I'm in a community again anyway:)) [...]46_7Dec200420:28:02-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 4313 70 13_Re: community8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:20:11 -0500802_US-ASCII Michelle, forgive me, but I can't remember where you are located. Would
you mind saying?

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG]
On Behalf Of Michelle Miller
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:28 PM
To: TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] community

The discussion between Bill and Rena is very interesting and I think
illustrates how different personality types function better in different
settings. Rena's discription of Baltimore sounds very nice, however, I
am
hardwired much more like Bill. Living just outside a community (with
easy
access) works best for us. Having said that, a new Chabad house just
moved
[...]39_8Dec200410:20:11-0500ssloman@netlab.com 4384 89 13_Re: community13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 08:06:29 -0800524_us-ascii This topic is a difficult one for me. I ache to be in a small community - as a friend laughingly told me a couple of days ago, "I never knew you were a country girl!" I love lots of land and space, comfortable sized homes with plenty of room (not to be confused with wanting a fancy home - not my thing at all). I enjoy my privacy, and don't like having people living on top of each other. (Interestingly, my two older girls seem to have the same feelings as myself, even though I don't articulate my feelings [...]43_8Dec200408:06:29-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 4474 56 13_Re: community10_Larry Beck35_Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:40:31 -0500536_us-ascii Michelle,

There is a possibility we may have to move to Denver next year. Could
you tell me more of your experiences in Denver?
Are you still in the Colorado area?
You can write me offline if you wish: larry.work@beckforce.com

Thanks,
Larry

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG]
On Behalf Of Michelle Miller
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 10:28 PM
To: TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: [TORCH-D] community [...]56_8Dec200410:40:31-0500Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM 4531 606 13_Re: community8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:17:45 -0500335_US-ASCII Avivah, I can relate to all your struggles with this.

We moved to South Bend, where large houses are very affordable, so that
the kids wouldn't have to go away for high school and would have peer
groups here. Not everything has turned out as we'd hoped, though there
are many positives to this community. [...]39_8Dec200411:17:45-0500ssloman@netlab.com 5138 469 13_Re: community14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:01:36 -0600594_iso-8859-1 Aviva,
This is just a favorite issue of mine. As far as peers for the kids go, this has been a difficulty for my HS'ed son and we are still trying to resolve the issue. Of course, when he was in school it was still an issue.
For my conventionally-schooled daughter the solution has been that her friends come from the Jewish community at large. That means kids who are non-Observant, questionably Jewish, or not halakhically Jewish. From an early age she learned that we do things differently from most people. In sleepovers etc parents are usually very understanding and [...]48_8Dec200411:01:36-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 5608 85 13_Re: community0_19_renaweisman@COX.NET30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 11:22:43 -0500524_ISO-8859-1 Avivah,

You bring up wonderful points. I am in a similar situation. My daughter is just about 2 so we have some time. We live in a very small community where there isn't much to offer by way of a Yeshiva and therefore peers. My husband and I go back and forth about moving to a place where we could have our choice of schools and her social life could be plentiful. We love the small community feel and the not living on top of each other feeling. We love being a big part of the community in our own [...]40_8Dec200411:22:43-0500renaweisman@COX.NET 5694 152 13_Re: community13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 09:17:50 -0800583_us-ascii I spoke with someone whose son learns in South Bend, asking about the community there, since I thought it might be a possibility to consider. She told me that basically the religious community is the yeshiva community (or at least that was her perception). I have issues with that - namely, that a yeshiva community comprised of mostly rebbeim and their wives wouldn't be likely to be supportive of our homeschooling. I don't need everyones' approval, but I wouldn't want to move into a situation where I would be seen as on the fringe before anyone even knew me. What [...]43_8Dec200409:17:50-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 5847 96 13_Re: community15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:27:49 -0700846_- Hi Shoshana,

In my post, I mentioned there are three eruvs in Denver:)) That's where I
live (actually in a suburb called Westminster). Housing is definitely more
affordable here, although Colorado is among the highest in the nation.

Kol Tuv,
Michelle

>From: S Sloman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] community
>Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:20:11 -0500
>
>Michelle, forgive me, but I can't remember where you are located. Would
>you mind saying?
>
>Shoshana Sloman
>Torch-d listowner
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG]
>On Behalf Of Michelle Miller
>Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 [...]46_8Dec200410:27:49-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 5944 530 13_Re: community8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:38:21 -0500535_US-ASCII South Bend is mainly a yeshivah community. But there is also a large
contingent of baalei baatim who are frum. That's one thing I like about
it here-you don't feel on the outside just because you are not a
rabbinical family. I wasn't treated negatively by the community in
general due to homeschooling. In fact, I had a number of people comment
that they had wished to do it, or ask for advice on how they could do
it. Those who disagreed with our decision had the good grace to keep
quiet about it. [...]39_8Dec200412:38:21-0500ssloman@netlab.com 6475 43 13_Re: community8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:42:22 -0500688_US-ASCII Ah, I misunderstood and thought you meant that you used to live in
Denver but no longer do.

Thanks!

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG]
On Behalf Of Michelle Miller
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 12:28 PM
To: TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] community

Hi Shoshana,

In my post, I mentioned there are three eruvs in Denver:)) That's where
I
live (actually in a suburb called Westminster). Housing is definitely
more
affordable here, although Colorado is among the highest in the nation. [...]39_8Dec200412:42:22-0500ssloman@netlab.com 6519 137 8_Testing?0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:50:04 EST403_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/8/04 5:00:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> has anyone had experience with a school requesting educational testing for
> their child? I am referring to a child who has no behavior issues in school
> but just seems to space out? What kinds of testing are there and is there any
> specific advise anyone can offer. [...]36_8Dec200412:50:04ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 6657 26 10_mazel tovs15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:40:15 -0700719_- Mazel tov to Moriah, Wendy, and Susan (grandchild) on the birth of their
children and grandchild! May they give you plenty of Yiddishe nachas:)

Freiliche Chanukah,
Michelle

_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
hthttp://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]46_8Dec200410:40:15-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 6684 73 16_Re: new settings0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM28_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:58:38 EST420_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/8/04 5:00:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Also, digests (when configured correctly for
> your
> email program) will not have those extra annoying characters that you
> have
> seen in the past.

so, please, tell us how to configure correctly, cuz I am still getting those
extra annoying characters in the present! :) [...]36_8Dec200412:58:38ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 6758 27 13_Re: mazel tov19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:44:58 -0500590_- Thank you Susan, and Amen to your berachas.

Moriah

>
>Moriah,
>
>Mazal tov! As a hschooling newborn, I hope she learns to quickly sleep
>through the night with great enthusiasm so you can keep doing all the
>wonderful things you do.
>
>Susan

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]46_8Dec200412:44:58-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 6786 17 15_mazel tov Wendy19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:59:07 -0500466_- May your precious baby girl bring you lots of nachas and may she be mellow.
Also, wishing you a speedy & complete recovery. Take it easy...
Moriah

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]46_8Dec200412:59:07-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 6804 79 0_12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:02:16 -0700945_us-ascii >
>Rena in Baltimore
>(as opposed to the newly subscribed Rena on this list, where are you from?)

I'm writing from Scottsdale, Arizona.

Kol Tuv,
Rena W.
www.yourhatstore.com

>
>----------
>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The
>Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College,
>which offers online courses and an online
>MA in Jewish Studies.
>
>To unsubscribe email
>TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]40_8Dec200413:02:16-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 6884 79 6_Re: AZ13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 12:16:51 -0800380_us-ascii Rena W,

I lived in Phoenix, Tuscon, and Globe, respectively, in the early 80s. I wonder if you and I would have overlapped at all. How long has there been any kind of community in Scottsdale?

Avivah

Rena Weisman wrote:

Rena in Baltimore
(as opposed to the newly subscribed Rena on this list, where are you from?) [...]43_8Dec200412:16:51-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 6964 158 6_Re: AZ12_Rena Weisman19_renaweisman@COX.NET30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:25:23 -0700379_us-ascii Avivah,

It depends what you mean by "community".....

My family moved here in 1990....when we moved, there was a Rabbi who had
services in his house. Shortly thereafter, he left and my family started
holding services in our home for a while. Soon after that, Chabad moved in
and has been here for 11 or 12 years. The Chabad is now thriving... [...]40_8Dec200413:25:23-0700renaweisman@COX.NET 7123 116 23_Re: Educational testing11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:13:00 -0500552_- Malki, i really dont like the public school system at all, and would take an
educated guess that their testing isnt too great. I would start with a
neurologist if your child is spacing out to rule out seizures. I could write
much more, but this stupid library computer will bump me off soon. I have
several children with special needs and am fairly knowledgeable in these
type of things. Send me a private email and i will tell you more, if you
like, but know that our computer is down, and i will not be able to answer
you [...]43_8Dec200417:13:00-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 7240 228 22_Re: attention lurkers!11_Sara Morrow21_saracmorrow@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 14:39:58 -0800378_us-ascii Hi -- I actually wasn't offended myself;but she did sound a little strident to me and I was thinking about those potentially shy, non-contributors taking it personally....I am way too exhausted myself to take anything too seriously.....Homeschooling 3 teenage boys and planning last SHabbat's bar mitzvah of my middle one......just about put me over the edge..... [...]42_8Dec200414:39:58-0800saracmorrow@YAHOO.COM 7469 27 19_Re: mazel tov Wendy14_Wendy and Jess15_viking@STIS.NET30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:58:08 -0500380_iso-8859-1 Thanks! Mazel tov to you as well! We should only share simchos...
Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam
(born at home on 12/4/04!)

> May your precious baby girl bring you lots of nachas and may she be
> mellow.
> Also, wishing you a speedy & complete recovery. Take it easy...
> Moriah [...]36_8Dec200417:58:08-0500viking@STIS.NET 7497 69 5_peers15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:15:25 -0700618_- Yes, Avivah, we have turned to some non-Jewish peers. There are two
families who homeschool that are Christian Zionist that we occasionally
socialize with. Since they are so philo-Semitic, we have a nice raport with
them. Their children have lovely middos.

Last year, I decided to let a relationship with a Jewish hschool family go
(very left-wing) because our haskafas were really starting to clash and I
saw trouble down the road. Sure enough, this year they have abandoned
homeschooling for public school. There were just no common values, which I
have found with the Christians. [...]46_8Dec200417:15:25-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 7567 256 22_Re: attention lurkers!13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:04:52 -0800554_us-ascii I guess it's because we can't see one another and can't be sure what tone is intended that we need to give each other the benefit of the doubt when reading a message. :)

It is an interesting feeling to read these messages (as moderator) about myself before forwarding them to the rest of the list to read. I have to say in all honesty that if it was about someone else, I would have had reservations about letting them pass, as I would be concerned about the potential for hurting someone's feelings. I assume that it was meant with [...]43_8Dec200417:04:52-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 7824 120 9_Re: peers13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 17:35:11 -0800551_us-ascii I definitely agree with you that adults have made socialization the issue that it is. Maybe it has happened in some small part due to the same 'more is better' mentality that has parents flooding their kids with lots of things considered to be materially advantageous. I sometimes think about Laura Ignalls Wilder and her peers, who went for months without seeing anyone but their family, not even a storekeeper. I remember myself as a kid, and I had one close friend outside of school, and that was it. I think that was pretty typical. [...]43_8Dec200417:35:11-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 7945 22 12_Re: Testing?19_malkiadler@juno.com19_malkiadler@JUNO.COM28_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 03:02:18 GMT570_- Hi, Rena,thanks for your input.DS is not spacey at home, just in school. At home, we experience all the behavioral issues from fighting with siblings to being extremely manipulative. As far as the school trying to recommend medication that would'nt go too far with me! I would simply refuse. It is true that he probably gets a little overwhelmed in the classroom and sort of shuts down but I am not sure if he has a learning aversion or a learning disability in the school setting-he is a very auditory learner and does not enjoy learning chumash inside which is [...]38_9Dec200403:02:18GMTmalkiadler@JUNO.COM 7968 139 9_Re: peers15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 22:16:01 -0700558_- I went back to using Michelle instead of Tamar about 1 1/2 years ago, when I
discovered my baby book while going through my mother's (obm) things. This
is bizarre, but I never knew until then my full Hebrew name was Michal
Tamar. I thought Michelle was French and I hated thinking it was
meaningless. My mother had been gone almost 5 years when I found the book.
My dad, in his 80s simply didn't remember why they picked Michelle. It is
pretty funny, and I was so happy my name wasn't of French origin, I
reclaimed it:)) I hadn't [...]46_8Dec200422:16:01-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 8108 90 6_Middos14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 05:33:40 -0600542_iso-8859-1 I've read many interesting points on peers in the group lately which leads me to ask if any of you have advice on instilling good middos in my nearly four year old son. He is very strong willed. We didn't start disipline until after he turned two for lack of support with our limited knowledge on raising children. He does a bit of morning and evening prayers and I've started making him sit for twenty min. or so while I read the Torah portion to him. It takes a while because of the work getting him to sit still sometimes. [...]44_9Dec200405:33:40-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 8199 26 12_Re: Testing?14_Melissa Newman24_Melissa@NEWMANFAMILY.ORG30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:37:47 -0500550_iso-8859-1 Malki,

I would recommend getting the testing. You say that you child is an auditory learner. Usually when a person has a weakness in one area, another area tends to become stronger to compensate. For all you know, maybe he just has a vision or eye muscle problem that makes text learning difficult. I am a very very slow reader, because I have eye muscle problems. On the other hand, since I read things very slow, I am great at detailed work. In school a person is just stuck with the type of learning there is, but in a work [...]45_9Dec200410:37:47-0500Melissa@NEWMANFAMILY.ORG 8226 88 10_Re: Middos13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:45:03 -0800581_us-ascii I am not quite sure I understand your question, so forgive me if I don't seem to be addressing your concerns.

I don't think good middos are instilled from the outside. I believe that you have to see each child for who he is, and help them develop their strengths and tone down their negatives accordingly. What would be necessary for one would be inappropriate for another. My kids sometimes complain about what they sometimes see as me not treating everyone the same - particularly, there are things that I let pass with one child that wouldn't pass with the [...]43_9Dec200407:45:03-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 8315 394 10_Re: Middos14_Bill Bernstein27_billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 09:57:24 -0600568_iso-8859-1 Our approach to discipline was that it had to be
a) Consistent
b) Clear
c) Immediate

If I gave a punishment for something I didnt expect my wife to backtrack on it or argue with me about it. And vice versa. We had to communicate clearly what the child did wrong. The punishment had to take place right then. Losing dessert for a week is, imo, ineffective because 2 days later the incident is forgotten. If I threatened something, I was sure to follow through on it.
This may have been a little strict at the beginning but the result [...]48_9Dec200409:57:24-0600billbernstein@BELLSOUTH.NET 8710 388 10_Re: Middos14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 10:15:28 -0600529_iso-8859-1 Avivah,

Thanks for addressing my concerns. You've made me feel as though I'm not so far off the mark. The reason I make Tovias sit during the reading is he need to learn how to sit still at some point. I agree with you that I shouldn't introduce the material by forcing him to sit through it. He is interested in the material but it is a matter of control on his part, he likes to have the upper hand. We do sit during "school time" which he loves. I've just started this week having him write a couple of [...]44_9Dec200410:15:28-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 9099 123 10_Re: Middos16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:58:45 -0500558_iso-8859-1 I agree with Avivah's point here. 20 mins. for an "antsy" 4 y/o can feel like an eternity. Something that allows him to "get his shpilkes" out while learning could be a big help. One of my kids oftentimes finds that mashing a piece of clay in her hands is really helpful. Now she also knits while sitting still, so maybe consider that for a bit down the road, if it's still necessary. Also, at age four, the parsha work my kids were doing was oftentimes more physically-oriented--coloring in a parsha sheet or gluing, cutting, sticking, etc. [...]49_9Dec200412:58:45-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 9223 100 8_magazine16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:02:40 -0500568_iso-8859-1 Mazal tov to the Werners for the LOVELY profile of their two daughters in "Yaldah" magazine. They sound like great kids, Avivah, and the pictures were so cute!

I was very impressed reading this magazine. I don't like my kids to read "American Girl" magazine b/c it has a lot of un-Jewish stuff in it. This was a PERFECT alternative. The 13 y/o editor put in a lot of work to bring this to fruition, and I think it's just great. If you haven't ordered one already, please support a young Jewish entrepeneur (and give your kids something great to [...]49_9Dec200413:02:40-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 9324 64 10_Re: Middos15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:15:06 -0700770_- Mandy,

Some really good books on parenting from a frum perspective are:

Raising Children to Care by Miriam Adahan (Feldheim)
Chinuch in Turbulent Times by Rabi Dov Brezak (Artscroll)
More Effective Jewish Parenting by Miriam Levi (Artscroll)

Not Jewish but great:

Home Built Discipline by Dorothy and Raymond Moore

Michelle

>From: Mandy Oeschger
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: [TORCH-D] Middos
>Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2004 05:33:40 -0600
>
> I've read many interesting points on peers in the group lately which
>leads me to ask if any of you have advice on instilling good middos in my
[...]46_9Dec200412:15:06-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 9389 215 10_Re: Middos12_Rachel Moore24_racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 14:33:37 -0500547_iso-8859-1 Obviously it isn't an answer relating to an "approach" -- I think all of the responses have been great. But my kids respond really, really well to children's tapes about Middot. We have "The Mighty Mitzvah Kids", which is from Israel. I am not sure where you can get it. They have at least two tapes. We have others that focus on middot, mostly from Israel. With 3 and 4 year olds, it seems like a great vehicle, and I am amazed at how much they internalize the "hokey" messages from these tapes. They sing the songs and point out [...]45_9Dec200414:33:37-0500racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET 9605 84 12_Re: Testing?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:16:27 -0800523_us-ascii Malki,

It sounds like you are in a very tight spot- you don't want the testing, but feel you need to give in to the demands of the school if they are going to keep him there.

To clarify - what is the purpose of the testing? My sense is that this is not an academic issue. I don't think testing is going to reveal anything you don't already know. Do you have any personal desire to see the testing done? If it's for the school, do you think that the results will make it more likely that he will [...]43_9Dec200412:16:27-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 9690 71 12_Re: Testing?14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 15:26:25 -0600545_iso-8859-1 Malki,

Your situation has been on my mind b/c it's something very close to home
with me. When I was in grade school, I was very much like your son. I was
constantly having notes sent home for "day dreaming" or not paying
attention. No one figured it out at the time but in hind sight it is clear
to me that I needed one on one learning in a family environment. Even group
learning would have been good, but I needed to be near the family. I did
shut down in a classroom because I felt overwhelmed. I had [...]44_9Dec200415:26:25-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 9762 103 27_Re: sitting still / control10_Louise Fox20_louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:13:20 +0200547_ISO-8859-1 Oh wow! I don't think my 9 year old has *ever* sat still!!! I really
don't think he could ever have coped with a regular school, if only for
this very reason, so it's a good thing he's never been. He manages to
concentrate in shul sometimes - but then it's stand, sit, stand, sit,
etc. not just sitting still - but other times he prefers to daven on his
own at home. During Shabbat (ie long) meals, he has to get up from the
table between courses, otherwise he annoys all the rest of us with his
fidgeting! He [...]41_9Dec200423:13:20+0200louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM 9866 42 12_Re: Testing?14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:32:46 +0200625_us-ascii Here's a possibility that I haven't seen raised--

What if the rebbe your son has is INFERNALLY BORING?

I've seen many teachers blame students for their own shortcomings.
Pasting a label on the child makes it the child's fault that his teacher
isn't competent.

I know that around here, if my son doesn't "get" something, it's the
result of a few possibilities:
1) The source has done a poor job presenting the material.
2) He isn't developmentally ready for the material. ("Never teach a cow
to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the cow"). Which is the
teacher's job [...]45_9Dec200423:32:46+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 9909 44 10_Re: Middos14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 23:56:31 +0200485_us-ascii Why does a four year old have to learn to sit?

Does he sit still when he eats? (not when you eat-- when he eats). Does
he sit still to play with blocks or legos or cars? Does he like to flip
through picture books on the shelf? Odds are, he already knows very well
how to sit and do something he's interested in.
(If for some reason he really can't sit, start considering a change to
his diet. Or dropping the TV or computer games, if he does that). [...]45_9Dec200423:56:31+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 9954 102 10_Re: Middos13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 17:45:17 -0800428_us-ascii Mandy-

You really seem to be asking 2 different questions. One is how to teach/instill good middos -e.g. empathy, compassion, respect, cooperation, peacefulness, etc. The other has to do with a "work ethic." e.g. coming to daven, sitting still, etc.

Regarding the 1st, a number of good books have already been mentioned. I add to the list:
Living with kids: parents at their best by Miriam Adahan [...]40_9Dec200417:45:17-0800barbmazor@yahoo.com 10057 151 7_opinion12_Rachel Moore24_racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:53:30 -0500467_iso-8859-1 Hi,

I would like to get everyone's opinion about something a little bit unusual:
My stepson does not live with us. His mother stopped practicing Judaism very soon after the divorce, and is raising him in a secular way. She has never denied his Judaism, but she has never made an effort to get him even the most basic of Jewish education. Everything he learns Jewishly is through the once a week and every-other-weekend visits he is with us. [...]46_10Dec200408:53:30-0500racheldmoore@COMCAST.NET 10209 136 10_Re: Middos12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM31_Fri, 10 Dec 2004 00:45:06 -0500543_us-ascii My son, who is about to turn 8 in a few days, is also one of those
kids who doesn't sit much... At age 4, it would have been impossible
for him to sit still for 20 minutes. He has grown up a lot since then
and can sit and learn a bit now, and really enjoys learning with my
husband especially -- but he still much prefers to be moving
(preferably running, taking things apart, hammering nails, etc... he
actually sets up obstacle courses around the house so that he has
things to jump over as he runs around [...]44_10Dec200400:45:06-0500njpmail@MINDSPRING.COM 10346 499 10_Re: Middos8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 10 Dec 2004 15:19:39 -0500373_US-ASCII Heh, Yael, from the discussions I've read on torch-d, I wouldn't say you
are in a minority regarding Little Midrash Says.

They definitely have pros and cons and some people like some aspects and
dislike others, while some like it or dislike it overall.

As with every other learning resource-use your judgment and carefully
consider it. [...]40_10Dec200415:19:39-0500ssloman@netlab.com 10846 65 11_Re: testing19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:51:31 -0500624_- BS"D
Dear Malki,

>I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place because the rebbe is
>sort of demanding the testing since DS is just not" getting it"-he really does
>not know the material that is taught.
>
>Malki

The role of the rebbi is to get through his students (all of them!) and if
the student is not getting it is not the student's fault, but the rebbe's.
There are many different learning styles
(auditory,textual,visual,kinesthetic,etc.), and a skilled rebbe is
supposed to incorporate a certain percentage of his teaching style to
accomodate each of the [...]47_11Dec200420:51:31-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 10912 221 11_Re: opinion14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:08:25 -0600667_iso-8859-1 Absolutely! I think your step son should do his correct Torah portion. I don't think things happen at random. That would mean The Almighty didn't have His hand on every little thing.

Mandy
NW Florida

----- Original Message -----
From: Rachel Moore
To: TORCH-D@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 7:53 AM
Subject: [TORCH-D] opinion

Hi,

I would like to get everyone's opinion about something a little bit unusual:
My stepson does not live with us. His mother stopped practicing Judaism very soon after the divorce, and is raising him in a secular way. She has never denied his Judaism, but [...]45_11Dec200420:08:25-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 11134 97 11_Re: opinion18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 21:07:03 -0500575_us-ascii Rachel,

Good that you'll talk to your Rav. Your Rav should probably
develop a relationship with your DSS; it is important that
he makes his decisions based on your DSS's realities.

It would be nice if DSS would be shomer mitzvot by the time
of his Bar Mitzvah. But if that's premature given his situation,
work with him in a way that does not turn him off. There
is no formal requirement for him to lain or read the haftarah.
The custom is that he would be called up for an aliyah.
He should be comfortable with what he does. [...]41_11Dec200421:07:03-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 11232 89 30_Re: stepson bar mitzva opinion10_Louise Fox20_louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM31_Mon, 13 Dec 2004 23:18:10 +0200447_ISO-8859-1 Rachel,

First of all, I think our opinions shouldn't count for much, except to
help you realize what it is you really want.

Having said that, here is my opinion (which you are free to ignore)

My impression is that the exact date of the Bar Mitzva (and which parsha
it is or isn't) is less important than how your stepson feels about the
bar mitzva and where he is at in his Yiddishkeit at that point. [...]42_13Dec200423:18:10+0200louise@JOSHUAFOX.COM 11322 73 47_OT---New baby and displaced 2 year old--advice?14_Wendy and Jess15_viking@STIS.NET31_Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:46:46 -0500401_iso-8859-1 Help! My 2 year old son, Rachmy, is having a really tough time adapting to being the big brother. He's sweet with the baby, but VERY cross with me---hitting, yelling, and crying piteously at night when he awakens. He's still nursing, and sleeps in my DH's bed or in mine, but I'd love some input on handling his anger and sadness in an effective, nurturing manner. Thanks in advance-- [...]37_13Dec200417:46:46-0500viking@STIS.NET 11396 104 51_Re: OT---New baby and displaced 2 year old--advice?16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 06:41:26 -0500306_iso-8859-1 Awww....My heart is going out to all of you, Wendy.

Do you have the book, "We Have a Baby" by Cathryn Falwell (http://tinyurl.com/5dotn)? I love it b/c it's written at a toddler's point of view and shows the "big kid" still having a place on mama's lap, etc. even with the new baby. [...]50_14Dec200406:41:26-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 11501 93 51_Re: OT---New baby and displaced 2 year old--advice?10_Roger Silk23_rogersilk@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 13 Dec 2004 21:49:34 -0800601_us-ascii At the risk of stating the obvious, is it possible to have his dad spend
significantly more time with him as you are inevitably less available?

That seemed to help our oldest when she got a brother at 22 months. Of
course every child and every situation is unique.

At 02:46 PM 12/13/2004, you wrote:
>Help! My 2 year old son, Rachmy, is having a really tough time adapting
>to being the big brother. He's sweet with the baby, but VERY cross with
>me---hitting, yelling, and crying piteously at night when he
>awakens. He's still nursing, and sleeps in my [...]45_13Dec200421:49:34-0800rogersilk@EARTHLINK.NET 11595 89 32_Hebrew, Torah, Jewish Curriculum14_Melissa Newman24_Melissa@NEWMANFAMILY.ORG31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 13:30:29 -0500600_iso-8859-1 Hi,

I was just wondering what other people where doing for Jewish Curriculum. Are you sending your child to school or homeschooling? If homeschooling, do you use (or have used) certain texts? What are your general goals at different grades?

Thanks,

Melissa

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]46_14Dec200413:30:29-0500Melissa@NEWMANFAMILY.ORG 11685 49 19_Re: mazel tov Wendy11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:43:12 -0500272_- Wendy, i just got back on the computer after a long time. Mazel Tov to you!
It seems from your reply that someone else on this list gets a mazel tov
too. Who? And i see your daughter was born at home. Did you plan this out??
You have got me curious! Rivky [...]44_16Dec200416:43:12-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11735 115 12_Re: Testing?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:54:38 -0500391_- i know this is an old message but i just got back on the computer after all
this time. So excuse me if my point is irrelevant, but i'm afraid they will
use the testing to push medication. If the doctor recommends medication, and
if its a conventional doctor he/she is very likely to do so, then if you
refuse the "doctors orders" you look like a bad parent. Beware! Rivky [...]44_16Dec200416:54:38-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 11851 26 18_calling Larry Beck15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:25:53 -0700707_- I would like to answer questions about the Denver community for you off
list, but I have misplaced your email. Please resend your questions.

Thank you,
Michelle

_________________________________________________________________
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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]47_16Dec200414:25:53-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 11878 97 36_Re: Hebrew, Torah, Jewish Curriculum13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:06:17 -0800470_us-ascii I noticed the overwhelming response to this question (g) so I figured I would respond.

For a short post, you managed to ask a couple of big questions! These require long answers representative of each family's philosophy - my guess is that is not many people have had the time to respond. I frequently am asked about curriculum (as I imagine everyone is), but what is more important than exactly what you use, is why you use it, and how you use it. [...]44_16Dec200418:06:17-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 11976 72 22_Re: calling Larry Beck10_Larry Beck35_Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:55:14 -0500555_us-ascii Michelle,

We are currently in Atlanta and are trying to stay here but there is a
sizeable chance we will have to move to Colorado next summer. My work is
in Colorado Springs but I believe we would need to live in Denver to be
in the Jewish Community. After talking with a number of people
(including
some from Torch-D) I believe the East side of Denver is the best place
but
I want to understand what it will be like to homeschool in the community
there and if it is workable. We have four boys 19, 17, 12 and [...]57_17Dec200409:55:14-0500Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM 12049 77 19_Re: mazel tov Wendy14_Wendy and Jess15_viking@STIS.NET31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:31:51 -0500510_iso-8859-1 Rivky--
Thanks! Yes, Yocheved's was a planned homebirth, as were three of my
others. Kein Yirbu, we have lots of mazel tovs on this list! :)
Wendy in Miami
Mom to Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam
(born on purpose at home on 12/4/04!)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rivky Kahan"
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] mazel tov Wendy [...]37_17Dec200411:31:51-0500viking@STIS.NET 12127 124 36_Re: Hebrew, Torah, Jewish Curriculum14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 06:15:34 +0200390_us-ascii Exactly what Avivah said. We go straight to The Source.

My son and I have the "what grade are you in?" debate all the time--
it's a bit of a running joke around here. My general goals (and his, it
seems) have nothing to do with grades-- or any other artificial
constructs of the public school system that have all somehow tainted the
way we transmit Torah. [...]46_17Dec200406:15:34+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 12252 100 11_Re: testing11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:20:06 -0500543_- Moriah, i never was a teacher, but personally i think you are being too hard
on the rebbe in this post. I dont know how any teacher can be expected to
teach 15 to 20 or more students in one room, and cater to each of their
levels and learning styles. That is what is wonderful about
homeschooling-that the child is taught in a way that is individually suited
to that child. To say that if a student isnt learning its always the rebbes
fault, is not fair. Often the problem is that school by defintion is a big
bidi [...]44_16Dec200417:20:06-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 12353 146 11_Re: testing12_David Horesh20_dhoresh@HOTBREAD.NET31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 09:04:18 -0900557_US-ASCII I am, I'm afraid, one of the lurkers who only rarely posts to the group.
This time however, I wanted to say, "Thank you" to Rivky for coming to the
aide of teachers in the classroom. I come from a family that strongly
believes in and supports the Public and Day School systems. My
father-in-law, in fact, is a teacher in the local school system. We have
talked about what he's gone through in 30 plus years of teaching and the
changes in the classroom. It is clear to all of us that when compared to the
group think being [...]42_17Dec200409:04:18-0900dhoresh@HOTBREAD.NET 12500 68 11_Re: testing19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:54:25 -0500629_- There is always an alternative way of reaching students. If the school
system (usually consists of a school board comprised of parents and teachers
and others funding the school) is not willing to invest in an "alternative"
system to maximize the learning throughput between teachers & students, then
there will always be the problem of student dropouts because they got lost
in the system. I think the only major "testing" that needs to be conducted by
a school is to have surveys of the various learning styles of their
incoming students for the year and evaluate their learning differences and
[...]47_18Dec200420:54:25-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 12569 215 36_Re: Hebrew, Torah, Jewish Curriculum17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 18:22:14 -0500431_us-ascii >Hi,
>
>I was just wondering what other people where doing for Jewish
>Curriculum. Are you sending your child to school or homeschooling?
>If homeschooling, do you use (or have used) certain texts? What are
>your general goals at different grades?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Melissa

I guess, generally stated, my goal for Jewish curriculum is for my
children to engage passionately as Jews... [...]38_18Dec200418:22:14-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 12785 93 11_Re: testing17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:04:26 -0500621_us-ascii >
> >>
>>> The role of the rebbi is to get through his students (all of them!) and if
>>> the student is not getting it is not the student's fault, but the rebbe's.
> >> There are many different learning styles
>>> (auditory,textual,visual,kinesthetic,etc.), and a skilled rebbe is
>>> supposed to incorporate a certain percentage of his teaching style to
>>> accomodate each of the above learning styles, so if his class is made up of
>>> 15% kinesthetic learners, 15% visual learners, 20% auditory learners, and
>>> 50%
>>> textual learners, then the Rebbe should adjust his [...]38_21Dec200411:04:26-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 12879 64 11_Re: testing13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com31_Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:09:50 -0800444_us-ascii Message from moderators:

This thread has digressed into a discussion of the Rebbe's responsibility for the success of a student. Although there are a number of messages in the queue on this topic, Avivah and I feel that at this point the thread has strayed too far from the topic of homeschooling and that the additional comments are not adding any new information to the discussion. We have decided to cut off this topic. [...]41_21Dec200411:09:50-0800barbmazor@yahoo.com 12944 25 13_Re: Wish list17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:44:03 -0500623_us-ascii I have the opportunity to advise a group that is in the process of
developing Jewish home schooling resources. So.. I wanted to throw
the ball out at all of you.

What is the Jewish home school resource that you have most wished for?

( Who knows? Your wish may come true...)
Chana

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]38_22Dec200407:44:03-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 12970 48 13_Re: Wish list14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:46:41 +0200416_us-ascii Can you give additional background?
Who constitutes this group? Are they trying to make a profit? (In other
words : are they homeschoolers who want to work at home [or volunteer]
or schooled adults who now send their own children to school who see a
business idea?)

Is the idea to build something virtual (a website or catalog) or
something in the real world (a learning center)? [...]46_22Dec200417:46:41+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 13019 47 13_Re: Wish list16_Eric & Lori Swim17_elswim@KANSAS.NET31_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 12:54:38 -0600424_us-ascii My (mini)-wish is for a comprehensive, year-long curriculum designed for
7th or 8th grades that covers Jewish History (Sephardi and Ashkenazi)
and includes excellent young-adult literature and history books. Other
topics might include Jewish scientists and their achievements . . .
(this would cover the topics of history, literature, geography, social
science, and science for the year . . . ) [...]39_22Dec200412:54:38-0600elswim@KANSAS.NET 13067 23 13_Re: Wish list8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:27:37 -0500568_us-ascii My wish--a unit-study program covering Talmud. It could incorporate
history, geography, science, and math, in addition to Talmud, itself.

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG40_22Dec200416:27:37-0500ssloman@netlab.com 13091 155 13_Re: Wish list17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:43:25 -0500540_us-ascii >Can you give additional background?
>Who constitutes this group? Are they trying to make a profit? (In other
>words : are they homeschoolers who want to work at home [or volunteer]
>or schooled adults who now send their own children to school who see a
>business idea?)

Neither.Some funders interested in helping Jewish h-schoolers (
though I think that many of these resources may end up being useful
in schools as well, particularly for children who would thrive on
working more independently). [...]38_22Dec200416:43:25-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 13247 88 13_Re: Wish list16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:17:24 -0500460_iso-8859-1 Re: [TORCH-D] Wish listI would love to see a Jewish version of "What Your X-Grader Needs to Know". While I realize this would be hard given different levels of observance, something like this would be very helpful for many Jewish homeschoolers. I find it so easy to remember back to when I was young and the things I was learning at each age/grade in public school, but, as a BT, I don't have that knowledge to fall back on re. limudei kodesh. [...]50_23Dec200400:17:24-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 13336 96 13_Re: Wish list17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:21:51 -0500542_us-ascii >I would love to see a Jewish version of "What Your X-Grader Needs to
>Know". While I realize this would be hard given different levels of
>observance, something like this would be very helpful for many
>Jewish homeschoolers. I find it so easy to remember back to when I
>was young and the things I was learning at each age/grade in public
>school, but, as a BT, I don't have that knowledge to fall back on
>re. limudei kodesh.
>
>Ellen in Boston
>in our fifth year of homeschooling three great girls [...]38_23Dec200410:21:51-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 13433 26 13_Re: wish list19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:11:19 -0500436_- I am looking for a skills-based (as opposed to grade based) Torah curriculum.
Actually, I'm also looking into selling such curriculum on my website,
and will update you when there's something to sell.

Thanks!

PS since we are finishing Sefer Bereishis, there is a line of products to
test your knowledge on the order of the Parashiyos on MorahMoriah.com,
http://www.morahmoriah.com/flashcard/Parsha.html [...]47_23Dec200414:11:19-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 13460 34 20_Unit study on Talmud19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:24:45 -0500481_- Shoshana,

I can't speak for the science and math parts, but for history and geography,
perhaps biography, there's Ein Yaakov (translated by Rabbi Avraham Yaakov
Finkel to English) (also a Davka software under the same name).
"The Torah Revealed" by the the same Rabbi Finkel, provides a cross-reference
of selected Chumash verses to Talmudic, Midrashic and Halachic teachings.
There's an article about this book in DevarimAtHome, if you're interested. [...]47_23Dec200418:24:45-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 13495 93 13_Re: Wish list16_ZagorskyGoldberg28_zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:41:07 -0500574_iso-8859-1 Re: [TORCH-D] Wish listThanks, Chana, for responding. I actually have the Torah Umesorah book, and it is helpful. What I like about the secular "What Your...." books is that they list the skills and then give problems, examples, stories, etc. to help you kids acquire those skills. I look at the T.U. "endless list" (or maybe it's the endless list of stuff from our local day school, I can't quite remember....) and just feel overwhelmed as to how I'm going to even gather all that info, nevermind teach it! (Thank goodness for e-chinuch. I love that site!) [...]50_23Dec200421:41:07-0500zagorskygoldberg@VERIZON.NET 13589 48 13_Re: Wish list11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:51:47 -0500290_- Well, i could think of alot of ideas i guess, but here's one that comes to
mind off hand. How about a group of volunteers who are ready and willing to
study gemorah and such over the phone with our boys, and if they happen to
live in the same neighborhood, in person. Rivky [...]44_23Dec200421:51:47-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 13638 32 13_Re: Wish list10_Larry Beck35_Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 23:35:19 -0500510_us-ascii We would really love to have text book on secular subjects with a Jewish
point of view. We end up using many Christian books with a lot of
White-out.

Larry Beck

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Chana Silberstein
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 7:44 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Wish list

What is the Jewish home school resource that you have most wished for? [...]57_23Dec200423:35:19-0500Larry.Beck@GIS.LEICA-GEOSYSTEMS.COM 13671 117 13_Re: Wish list16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:49:29 -0800559_us-ascii Took the words right out of my mouth (or off of my keyboard :))!
Brenda

ZagorskyGoldberg wrote:

> I would love to see a Jewish version of "What Your X-Grader Needs to
> Know". While I realize this would be hard given different levels of
> observance, something like this would be very helpful for many Jewish
> homeschoolers. I find it so easy to remember back to when I was young
> and the things I was learning at each age/grade in public school, but,
> as a BT, I don't have that knowledge to fall back on re. [...]43_23Dec200420:49:29-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 13789 124 13_Re: Wish list10_Roger Silk23_rogersilk@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:49:31 -0800619_us-ascii Chana,

Can you please point more specifically to where the list of goal summaries
for each grade level is?

Thank you,

Roger

At 07:21 AM 12/23/2004, you wrote:
>>I would love to see a Jewish version of "What Your X-Grader Needs to
>>Know". While I realize this would be hard given different levels of
>>observance, something like this would be very helpful for many Jewish
>>homeschoolers. I find it so easy to remember back to when I was young
>>and the things I was learning at each age/grade in public school, but, as
>>a BT, I don't have that knowledge [...]45_23Dec200421:49:31-0800rogersilk@EARTHLINK.NET 13914 72 13_Re: Wish list18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:49:12 -0500610_us-ascii bs'd
The Partners in Torah program
http://www.partnersintorah.org/index.php
does it for adults. I bet they'd be open
to a study program pairing children with
a Torah teacher. It would have to be done
carefully, though, with more screening of
both the kids and the adults.

Benzion Dickman

On 12/23/2004 9:51 PM, Rivky Kahan wrote:
> Well, i could think of alot of ideas i guess, but here's one that comes to
> mind off hand. How about a group of volunteers who are ready and willing to
> study gemorah and such over the phone with our boys, and if they [...]41_24Dec200414:49:12-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 13987 45 13_Re: wish list16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 25 Dec 2004 20:33:17 -0800778_us-ascii I just looked at your Website, Moriah--very cool!
Brenda

Mrs. Moriah Chesler wrote:

>I am looking for a skills-based (as opposed to grade based) Torah curriculum.
>Actually, I'm also looking into selling such curriculum on my website,
>and will update you when there's something to sell.
>
>Thanks!
>
>PS since we are finishing Sefer Bereishis, there is a line of products to
>test your knowledge on the order of the Parashiyos on MorahMoriah.com,
>http://www.morahmoriah.com/flashcard/Parsha.html
>
>Something that my kids enjoy and I'm sure the adults too.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
>Shamash: The Jewish Network, [...]43_25Dec200420:33:17-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 14033 37 21_Re: PArtners in Torah19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 02:09:39 -0500610_us-ascii BS"D

Partners In Torah is a kiruv program, so their priority is for people
who are open to learning more about their heritage. For those who are
already observant, they won't turn you away but they will be put at a lower
priority. This is just my experience... Also, the success of the
chavrusa program requires that both partners be diligent in keeping in touch
with each other regularly, my experinece has been that the chavrusa is not
always regular or not committed. I'm speaking from my point of view of
my learning more from the chavrusa. Sometimes the chavrusa [...]47_26Dec200402:09:39-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 14071 145 15_new to the list13_Heather Price28_heatherandadam@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 25 Dec 2004 20:10:45 -0800612_Windows-1252 BlankHello all,

I'm new to the list and have been lurking for a few days. We don't have children yet but I'm considering the possibility of homeschooling down the road at least for preschool and kindergarten, and then, depending what state we're living in, going further.

I've been learning the laws in California, where we currently live, but it looks like we'll be moving to Baltimore this summer. Any Maryland homeschoolers here? Do you do it via PSA or charter schools....or what? I have a master's degree in education which I am currently not using and the idea of educating [...]50_25Dec200420:10:45-0800heatherandadam@SBCGLOBAL.NET 14217 46 21_Re: TORCH-D Wish list0_17_tolife18@JUNO.COM31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 15:47:14 +0200503_us-ascii I don't know how to daven in Hebrew (except for a few prayers) so I can't
teach my kids. I'd LOVE a davening tape. I need one that is clear to
understand and goes at a pace that is not too fast and not too slow.
(too fast they can't understand, too slow and they get bored. If it was a
tape that I could use, then I could learn and teach my kids. I've gotten
tapes before on say, the kabbalat shabbat but they have been hard to
understand. (we use the Artscroll siddur.) [...]39_26Dec200415:47:14+0200tolife18@JUNO.COM 14264 101 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 08:23:25 -0800323_us-ascii Homeschooling is extremely cost effective, especially compared to the price of yeshiva tuition (in our area, averaging in elementary school from 5 - 8 K a year per child). You can spend as much or as little as you want, but in general, homeschooling is so incredibly affordable that it is simply astonishing! [...]44_26Dec200408:23:25-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 14366 67 24_Davening tapes in Hebrew18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:47:07 -0500573_us-ascii bs'd
Laya,

We used an Israeli tape by Ariela Savir. It was for children,
and it did the morning brakhot very well. Wonderful music.
I couldn't stop humming the tunes during the day.

Benzion Dickman

On 12/26/2004 8:47 AM, tolife18@juno.com wrote:
> I don't know how to daven in Hebrew (except for a few prayers) so I can't
> teach my kids. I'd LOVE a davening tape. I need one that is clear to
> understand and goes at a pace that is not too fast and not too slow.
> (too fast they can't understand, too slow and they [...]41_26Dec200413:47:07-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 14434 151 21_Re: TORCH-D Wish list16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:43:58 -0800566_us-ascii Speaking of tapes, is there one of the Birkas Hamazon being sung? I
don't know all the tunes for that, and giving a tune or tunes to
something is the easiest way for a child to learn/remember it.
Thanks,
Brenda

tolife18@JUNO.COM wrote:

>I don't know how to daven in Hebrew (except for a few prayers) so I can't
>teach my kids. I'd LOVE a davening tape. I need one that is clear to
>understand and goes at a pace that is not too fast and not too slow.
>(too fast they can't understand, too slow and they get bored. If [...]43_26Dec200411:43:58-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 14586 162 19_Re: new to the list16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 11:49:16 -0800605_windows-1252 Good to see you here, Heather!
Brenda

Heather Price wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I'm new to the list and have been lurking for a few days. We don't
> have children yet but I'm considering the possibility of homeschooling
> down the road at least for preschool and kindergarten, and then,
> depending what state we're living in, going further.
>
> I've been learning the laws in California, where we currently live,
> but it looks like we'll be moving to Baltimore this summer. Any
> Maryland homeschoolers here? Do you do it via PSA or charter
[...]43_26Dec200411:49:16-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 14749 53 19_Re: new to the list14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:20:20 +0200374_us-ascii Heather, welcome to our list.

I'm going to say something that will at first appear unhelpful, but bear
with me and your questions will be answered.

Homeschooling isn't what you think it is.
Whatever image you have in your head about how homeschooling "works",
forget it. This image bears no relationship to the reality of homeschooling. [...]46_27Dec200400:20:20+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 14803 89 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 18:25:57 EST461_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:24:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
avivahwerner@yahoo.com writes:

> Homeschooling is extremely cost effective, especially compared to the price
> of yeshiva tuition (in our area, averaging in elementary school from 5 - 8 K
> a year per child). You can spend as much or as little as you want, but in
> general, homeschooling is so incredibly affordable that it is simply
> astonishing!
>
> [...]41_26Dec200418:25:57ESTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 14893 85 14_Davening tapes13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:37:16 -0800590_us-ascii Laya -

I can't vouch for the quality. I know this company from it's books for teaching how to leyen torah, which I thought were good. But check it out. Tapes are $12 a piece.

http://www.chadishmedia.com/index.htm

Barbara

tolife18@JUNO.COM wrote:
I don't know how to daven in Hebrew (except for a few prayers) so I can't
teach my kids. I'd LOVE a davening tape. I need one that is clear to
understand and goes at a pace that is not too fast and not too slow.
(too fast they can't understand, too slow and they get bored. If it was a
[...]41_26Dec200416:37:16-0800barbmazor@yahoo.com 14979 75 19_Re: new to the list11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:25:10 -0500684_- Malkie, if i am not mistaken, this is not the first time you have shared
your pearls of wisdom with us. I honestly think you should write a book on
homeschooling. Rivky

>From: Malkie Swidler
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] new to the list
>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:20:20 +0200
>
>Heather, welcome to our list.
>
>I'm going to say something that will at first appear unhelpful, but bear
>with me and your questions will be answered.
>
>Homeschooling isn't what you think it is.
>Whatever image you have in your head about [...]44_26Dec200422:25:10-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15055 121 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling13_Heather Price28_heatherandadam@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 17:28:35 -0800623_iso-8859-1 So far, so good. I'm beginning to learn. But surely homeschooling is so much more than purchasing curricula from various sources and adapting grade level guidelines to fit the needs of your individual child, registering a PSA or enrolling in a charter school, and getting started. Homeschooling *is* all about the activities, no? The science clubs, the sports teams, the music classes, the art workshops, etc etc etc? Plus, there are MULTIPLE differences between un-schooling and homeschooling, and I'm not sure from Malkie's post whether I'm reading posts from a community of unschoolers or homeschoolers. [...]50_26Dec200417:28:35-0800heatherandadam@SBCGLOBAL.NET 15177 140 21_Re: answers to newbie0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:51:38 EST550_US-ASCII Heather:
I see that you have lots of questions, but really, I think that Malkie's
answer puts a whole different spin on things. You asked a lot of questions from
Chana, and she has a lot to offer in terms of speaking "education-ese" so I
will let her answer your posts. But I find in general, and we have been doing
this for more than 6 years, my son is a graduating senior this year, I"H, that I
don't sweat it too much in terms of all the higher order thinking, jargon
stuff that you were talking about. To quote [...]37_27Dec200411:51:38ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 15318 61 28_Re: Davening Tapes in Hebrew19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 11:56:36 -0500349_- BS"D

Laya,

I know you are looking for tapes, but here is something that I worked on
last year, when I was inquiring for help from this list in setting up an
audio-video website to provide resources for free online Hebrew story books
for kids. Unfortunately, I didn't get much of a response, but I got a
couple, b"H. [...]47_27Dec200411:56:36-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 15380 122 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling14_Wendy and Jess15_viking@STIS.NET31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:56:31 -0500558_iso-8859-1 Hi, Heather, and welcome...
My kids and I dropped out of yeshiva (I used to teach there) to homeschool this year, and we're loving it. I'd say we lean more toward unschooling (as I did while I was teaching in a classroom, lol!) and have learned a tremendous amount in the short time we've been at home. We have not signed up for any of the "extras" you mentioned, other than B'nos and Pirchei and Little League. Since we'd have done those in addition to school, I don't count them as HS expenses. We've done lots of baking, shopping, menu [...]37_27Dec200408:56:31-0500viking@STIS.NET 15503 102 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 08:59:11 EST623_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:58:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
heatherandadam@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:

> Chana, you said you purchase workbooks for your daughter at a cost of $250
> a year and that's it. So how does that work? Your school is very much
> book-based, and you just don't participate in homeschooling groups or charter
> schools or classes or workshops or anything? I'm sure you all have discussed
> socialization before, but how would a school like that (book based, home based)
> work vis a vis socialization? How does it work with regard to learning via
> different [...]41_27Dec200408:59:11ESTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 15606 20 29_introduction to homeschooling17_Abigail Leibowitz20_alazar50@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:55:32 +00000_42_27Dec200413:55:32+0000alazar50@HOTMAIL.COM 15627 78 28_Re: Davening Tapes in Hebrew0_21_Patchoulimama@AOL.COM29_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:31:42 EST733_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/27/2004 3:25:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM writes:

Here is a Real Player Slide Show presentation that incorporates audio
and video for a weekday Birkas Hamazon that I assembled from various
sources.

http://chavrusa.absol.com/judaica/prayer/BirkasHamazon/

This was great!!!!! So helpful, thank you very much for sharing it.

Amy

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]41_27Dec200415:31:42ESTPatchoulimama@AOL.COM 15706 114 18_Re: Davening tapes13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:51:26 -0800490_us-ascii My husband brought home a CD from the AJOP convention several years ago that was given out at the time. It is a beginner's davening CD - a musical introduction to the daily morning prayers. They use page numbers for the Artscroll siddur, and go slowly and clearly. I thought it was excellent, though it was a bit too slow for my kids once they were familiar with the tefillos (I used to sometimes suggest they put the CD on to daven when they wouldn't want to daven with me). [...]44_27Dec200412:51:26-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 15821 31 18_Re: davening tapes19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:26:23 -0500460_us-ascii BS"D

I would also like to alert you to another resource for learning prayers and
popular songs :

http://www.aish.com/shabbatsongs/ (also includes Birkas Hamazon for Shabbos)
The text and audio are separate, meaning they are not integrated into a
multimedia presentation.

http://www.davka.com/cgi-bin/product.cgi?product=291 Prayer Practice Software from Davka
I cannot vouch for the 2nd item, but it's out there. [...]47_27Dec200416:26:23-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 15853 70 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 19:57:52 -0500520_- I'm gonna jump in here even though it looks like you are talking to Chana. I
think there are all sorts of styles of homeschoolers here on our
list-unschoolers, school-at-homers, and everything else in between.
Everybody is free to say their opinion as long as it isnt offensive to
anyone. We all have to decide if we agree or disagree. So you can post a
question on the list, and then you will have to sort out what you agree with
and can learn from, and what does not sit right with you. Rivky [...]44_27Dec200419:57:52-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 15924 101 13_Re: Wish list11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 20:22:37 -0500456_- The Partners in Torah sounds like an interesting idea as far as fullfilling
my item on the "wish list" to have people willing and able to learn with our
boys. However, someone else, i forget who it was, posted about how they are
really looking for people who are not frum yet and looking to learn about
their heritage, and that someone who is already frum and just wants someone
to learn with b'chevrusah is not their priority. Rivky [...]44_27Dec200420:22:37-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 16026 90 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling17_Chana Silberstein16_cs32@CORNELL.EDU31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 12:14:57 -0500315_us-ascii >>
>>
>>Chana, you said you purchase workbooks for your daughter at a cost of $250
>>a year and that's it.

No, that was someone else. I spend a good deal less than $250 per
child per year on workbooks.
But I do buy trade books and other stuff that I think they can benefit from. [...]38_28Dec200412:14:57-0500cs32@CORNELL.EDU 16117 69 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 10:37:12 -0800318_us-ascii We are a community of unschoolers, school-at-homers, followers of the trivium, unit study, and everything else. You will begin to get a clear sense of where people are coming from once you have read enough of their posts. Malkie was writing from a perspective more typical of unschoolers, which I share. [...]44_28Dec200410:37:12-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 16187 40 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:37:35 -0500719_US-ASCII Like we say in La Leche League--take what's useful to you and leave the
rest.

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:58 PM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] dollar cost of homeschooling

I'm gonna jump in here even though it looks like you are talking to
Chana. I
think there are all sorts of styles of homeschoolers here on our
list-unschoolers, school-at-homers, and everything else in between.
Everybody is free to say their opinion as long as it isnt offensive to
anyone. We all have to [...]40_28Dec200415:37:35-0500ssloman@netlab.com 16228 157 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:20:53 -0800461_us-ascii What's the homeschooling magazine called?

Also, I'm interested to hear about all of your feelings about
socialization. I can see how socialization of children is not as
important as folks make it out to be, but I'd like to know your
theories, as I've only experienced the "socialization model" myself.

I love this list, as it's so attachment parenting/To Kindle a
Soul-oriented, philosophies I wholeheartedly agree with. [...]43_28Dec200413:20:53-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 16386 34 24_Building math worksheets2_CB11_cb@IEEE.ORG31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:00:10 -0500358_US-ASCII Can I squeeze in a new thread here?

Our 7yo dd is enjoying her success with arithmetic. She enjoys doing
worksheets and tests. Does anyone know of an online tool or
application to build test equations? I'd like to be able to make a
quiz for her with all combinations of addition or subtraction for
numbers 8 through 13, etc. [...]33_28Dec200417:00:10-0500cb@IEEE.ORG 16421 58 28_Re: Building math worksheets12_Kinta Telano20_kintakay@NETZERO.NET31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:42:51 -0600650_iso-8859-1 Hi Charles,

Here's a link to a homeschool math site where you can create a lot of
different math worksheets, and they're randomly generated so no repeats,
makes it a breeze!

Kinta
----- Original Message -----
From: "CB"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:00 PM
Subject: [TORCH-D] Building math worksheets

> Can I squeeze in a new thread here?
>
> Our 7yo dd is enjoying her success with arithmetic. She enjoys doing
> worksheets and tests. Does anyone know of an online tool or
> application to build test equations? I'd like to be able to [...]42_28Dec200417:42:51-0600kintakay@NETZERO.NET 16480 60 28_Re: Building math worksheets12_Kinta Telano20_kintakay@NETZERO.NET31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:44:41 -0600661_iso-8859-1 Oops, would help if I added the link.

List mod, would you please add this to my reply to Charles?

http://www.homeschoolmath.net

Thanks!

----- Original Message -----
From: "CB"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:00 PM
Subject: [TORCH-D] Building math worksheets

> Can I squeeze in a new thread here?
>
> Our 7yo dd is enjoying her success with arithmetic. She enjoys doing
> worksheets and tests. Does anyone know of an online tool or
> application to build test equations? I'd like to be able to make a
> quiz for her with all combinations of [...]42_28Dec200417:44:41-0600kintakay@NETZERO.NET 16541 56 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 18:54:48 -0800749_us-ascii Yay--La Leche League!
Brenda

S Sloman wrote:

>Like we say in La Leche League--take what's useful to you and leave the
>rest.
>
>Shoshana Sloman
>Torch-d listowner
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
>Behalf Of Rivky Kahan
>Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:58 PM
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] dollar cost of homeschooling
>
>I'm gonna jump in here even though it looks like you are talking to
>Chana. I
>think there are all sorts of styles of homeschoolers here on our
>list-unschoolers, school-at-homers, and everything else in between.
>Everybody is free to say their opinion as long [...]43_28Dec200418:54:48-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 16598 98 13_Socialization12_David Horesh20_dhoresh@HOTBREAD.NET31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:38:30 -0900602_ISO-8859-1 > I don¹t worry much about socialization of my children. They seem to be doing
> fine. Our children have numerous interactions with people of all ages, which
> is something we value and encourage very much. What I like most about
> homeschooling is that I have a greater ability to influence who they socialize
> with. For me, socialization simply for the sake of socialization is not
> necessary. The few people I have met that have questioned our decision to
> homeschool always use ³socialization² as a reason we should consider
> mainstreaming our kids. So far [...]42_28Dec200421:38:30-0900dhoresh@HOTBREAD.NET 16697 20 25_Re: Math worksheets drill19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 07:26:46 -0500475_- Found one site for you.

http://www.superkids.com/aweb/tools/math/add/

Moriah Chesler

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Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG47_29Dec200407:26:46-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 16718 44 26_Re: davening tapes - Shema19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 07:58:26 -0500513_us-ascii BS"D

For those who have found the Birkas Hamazon production useful, may I
interest you also in the rendition of The Shema,

http://chavrusa.absol.com/judaica/prayer/Shema/

This production and others like this are only for PERSONAL use. Thanks.

As always, if you would like to volunteer an audio/graphics for
Prayers/stories in Hebrew, to help other Jews in their performance of
Mitzvos, please contact me directly. May HaShem bless your efforts
multiple-fold. [...]47_29Dec200407:58:26-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 16763 62 22_Re: answers to newbies0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:59:41 EST623_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/29/04 1:54:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> Like we say in La Leche League--take what's useful to you and leave the
> rest.
>

Shoshana: Didn't know that you did the LLL thing! :) Wow, what do you know.
Anybody else?

Rena

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]37_29Dec200409:59:41ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 16826 315 22_Re: answers to newbies8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:22:21 -0500562_US-ASCII I was even a LLL Leader! Not in it now, though-no nurslings!

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:00 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] answers to newbies

In a message dated 12/29/04 1:54:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

Like we say in La Leche League--take what's useful to you and leave the
rest. [...]40_29Dec200410:22:21-0500ssloman@netlab.com 17142 32 28_Re: Building math worksheets2_CB11_cb@IEEE.ORG31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:58:19 -0500617_US-ASCII Thanks Kinta and Moriah! Those are wonderful resources.

cb

On Dec 28, 2004, at 6:44 PM, Kinta Telano wrote:

> Oops, would help if I added the link.
>
> List mod, would you please add this to my reply to Charles?
>
> http://www.homeschoolmath.net
>
> Thanks!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]33_29Dec200411:58:19-0500cb@IEEE.ORG 17175 29 3_LLL15_Michelle Miller25_michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:49:00 -0700731_- Rena,

I was in LLL from 1978 when I had my first until several years ago when my
youngest weaned at 5:)

I had a lot more in common with the women in the seventies than recently.

Kol Tuv,
Michelle

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/

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The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]47_29Dec200419:49:00-0700michelletamar@HOTMAIL.COM 17205 98 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:28 -0800602_us-ascii Heather-

People have been making the point that the decision to homeschool shouldn't be a purely dollar based decision. I agree. Afterall, if we decided to have children based purely on economics, most of us would be childless!

Nonetheless, it still costs money, and back to your original question -- here some other expenses that haven't been mentioned yet. Of course, you can spend as little as possible - there is even a web-site and book devoted to homeschooling for free. http://www.hsfree.com/ (since you need the internet for it, I guess it isn't quite free ) [...]41_29Dec200420:11:28-0800barbmazor@yahoo.com 17304 378 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:13:25 -0500390_US-ASCII >So, to spend the $700-$1000/month that yeshiva tuition would cost,
>you would have to work pretty hard

But if you qualify for tuition assistance, it can actually come out much
cheaper to send them to school. Especially if you have many children,
because scholarship programs often charge according to what the family
can pay, total, rather than per child. [...]40_30Dec200408:13:25-0500ssloman@netlab.com 17683 305 22_Re: answers to newbies16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:47:28 -0800690_us-ascii I'm an LLLLeader!
Brenda

S Sloman wrote:

> I was even a LLL Leader! Not in it now, though--no nurslings!
>
>
>
> Shoshana Sloman
>
> Torch-d listowner
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
> Behalf Of RENALEVIN@AOL.COM
> Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 10:00 AM
> To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
> Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] answers to newbies
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/29/04 1:54:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:
>
>
>
> Like we say in La Leche League--take what's useful to you and leave the
> [...]43_29Dec200420:47:28-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 17989 89 17_Re: Socialization16_Brenda Goldstein21_lioness31@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:53:17 -0800624_us-ascii Thanks for responding!
Brenda

David Horesh wrote:

> I don't worry much about socialization of my children. They seem
> to be doing fine. Our children have numerous interactions with
> people of all ages, which is something we value and encourage very
> much. What I like most about homeschooling is that I have a
> greater ability to influence who they socialize with. For me,
> socialization simply for the sake of socialization is not
> necessary. The few people I have met that have questioned our
> decision to homeschool always use "socialization" as a reason we
[...]43_29Dec200420:53:17-0800lioness31@COMCAST.NET 18079 136 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling0_21_YiddisheMameh@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 07:08:50 EST459_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/29/2004 11:12:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
barbmazor@yahoo.com writes:

> People have been making the point that the decision to homeschool shouldn't
> be a purely dollar based decision. I agree. Afterall, if we decided to
> have children based purely on economics, most of us would be childless!
>

I can outline what I do, when I said 250 dollars a year, I meant for
curriculum/books only. [...]41_30Dec200407:08:50ESTYiddisheMameh@AOL.COM 18216 73 8_Davening14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:22:25 -0600592_iso-8859-1 Hi all,

www.virtualcantor.com has good davening tapes with a few morning prayers and the like. Let me know what you think.. I haven't gotten around to checking it out in a while.

Mandy NW Florida
IMA to two boys 3 and 15 mo ( and one on the way!! B"H )

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The TORCH-D mailing list is hosted by
Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org,
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and
an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]45_30Dec200406:22:25-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 18290 186 17_Re: Socialization14_Mandy Oeschger23_sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:33:32 -0600554_iso-8859-1 Socialization This may be a bit extreme but thought I'd send it out for comments.

I don't fully disagree with the Rabbi who said something to this effect about putting our children in the world ( socialization ) : "the prodding of parents, which is common, to put our children in the world ( socialization ) to be raised and groomed is likened to Pharoh who put Israel's baby boys into the Nile. The Nile was an economical stregnth for Egypt. The babies were put there and died, so too if we put our children into the world we are [...]45_30Dec200406:33:32-0600sailorswife@KNOLOGY.NET 18477 60 29_Re; The cost of homeschooling0_17_RENALEVIN@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:03:42 EST600_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/30/04 1:54:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG writes:

> on-line Ulpan which costs about $20/lesson.

Barbara: link, please?

Thanks.

Rena in Baltimore

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To unsubscribe email: TORCH-D-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG37_30Dec200410:03:42ESTRENALEVIN@AOL.COM 18538 58 10_Any ideas?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:09:35 -0500601_- I have been homeschooling my younger daughter for years-part of the reason
is her learning disability-she has been doing much better at home b'ah. Now
we are homeschooling our older daughter for the first time. She would be in
10th grade.
She does not have any LD and is very bright. But through the years, she has
found the school schedule stressful and has had too many absences from
school, undone assignments etc, which caused everyone alot of stress-calls
from the shool, etc. dh and I decided enough is enough already-she cant have
one foot in school and one foot [...]44_30Dec200410:09:35-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 18597 33 30_Which one of you was it again?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:17:52 -0500547_- Some time ago, maybe a year or so by now, one of you wondeful people sent me
a private email that your kid has Aspergers syndrome and mentioned something
about a yeshiva high school somewhere that is good with such situations. We
are having alot of trouble with our high school age son also Aspergers. i
dont have your post in my inbox anymore, and i wanted to find out more about
this yeshiva. I dont even remember with whom i was discussing this with off
list. I just know it is someone on this list. If you are reading [...]44_30Dec200410:17:52-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 18631 64 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling19_Mrs. Moriah Chesler25_merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 10:31:12 -0500596_- >
>Heather-
>
>People have been making the point that the decision to homeschool shouldn't be a
> purely dollar based decision. I agree. Afterall, if we decided to have childr
>en based purely on economics, most of us would be childless!

I would like to add that the decision to nurse our young is also not based
on economics, although it definitely has $$$ savings besides the numerous
health benefits. I must thank my Rebbetzin who first introduce me to
nursing and gave me a wonderful book to read when I was pregnant with my
first. (Straight from [...]47_30Dec200410:31:12-0500merilyn@CHESLER.ABSOL.COM 18696 80 14_Re: Any ideas?18_Benjamin H Dickman19_bdickman@LUCENT.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:45:24 -0500419_us-ascii bs'd
I live in Monsey, New York. There is a K-8 girls' school
here that has had a few girls in the higher grades who
did not want to do homework or take tests, they just
wanted to be in class and pick up whatever they could.
And they would have friends. They weren't labeled
"problem kids", they were not otherwise disruptive,
and the teacher and administration went along with them. [...]41_30Dec200415:45:24-0500bdickman@LUCENT.COM 18777 73 7_Re: LLL13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:00:18 -0800357_us-ascii This may be off topic, but I am curious as to what the differences were between the moms in the seventies and more recently. I have been noticing differences in homeschoolers as of late, and am wondering if there is a parallel to your experience. And don't ask what my thoughts are on this one, because this gets to be an very involved topic! [...]44_30Dec200413:00:18-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 18851 46 14_Re: Any ideas?14_Malkie Swidler24_swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:56:44 +0200437_us-ascii Rivky--

There are two things I can think of off-hand.

#1-- Leave a copy of The Teenage Liberation Handbook where your daughter
is sure to find it. (Prescreen it!!! It is VERY unschooling oriented).
The book is radical, but it can give your daughter confidence in living
Outside the Box. And a lot of ideas on how to handle her new life. The
two of you can talk out how far to take any given idea. [...]46_30Dec200422:56:44+0200swidler@NETVISION.NET.IL 18898 169 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:47:30 -0800353_us-ascii The article I wrote was for Live Free Learn Free (a mostly unschooling mag), and should be out soon (printing was delayed because of the holidays), and was titled, "Homeschooling, expensive? Naah!". In that I detailed how we spent less than $150 for the year for six kids, including all outside expenses, including Girl Scout and 4H dues. [...]44_30Dec200413:47:30-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 19068 147 29_Re: The cost of homeschooling10_Zara Haimo14_zara@HAIMO.NET31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:19:42 -0800565_iso-8859-1 If my 3 kids were still in the day schools here, I would be paying about $30,000 in tuition, even with family discounts and some tuition assistance. In addition, all 3 would probably still be getting intensive after school tutoring (another $10,000 a year) to make up for the gaps in their schooling. This failure of their school to educate them was the primary reason I finally decided to try homeschooling, not the huge tuition burden. Now after 2.5 years of homeschooling I couldn't imagine sending them back to school even if tuition were free. [...]36_30Dec200413:19:42-0800zara@HAIMO.NET 19216 99 14_Re: Any ideas?13_Avivah Werner22_avivahwerner@yahoo.com31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:11:58 -0800547_us-ascii Rivky,

My thought on reading your post was that your daughter needs to seriously deschool - and being that she has been in the system for so long, it will take a very long time. She has been a passive learner for years, and it sounds like she is uncomfortable taking responsibility for her own learning. That is not easily overcome, unless she has a strong will and an active sense of internal motivation, since you have to help her find her inner backbone again (and she might not even know she has one, or want to find it). [...]44_30Dec200414:11:58-0800avivahwerner@yahoo.com 19316 280 32_Re: dollar cost of homeschooling8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:54:23 -0500396_US-ASCII Avivah wrote:

'Know thyself' is applicable in many circumstances, particularly to moms
who want to do it all and do it well. Burn out would be less of an
issue if peope didn't keep pushing themselves when all their internal
warning signals were bleeping dangerously.

I couldn't agree with you more, Avivah. In this, as well as every
other, aspect of life! [...]40_30Dec200416:54:23-0500ssloman@netlab.com 19597 85 12_Online Ulpan13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:05:51 -0800652_us-ascii >> on-line Ulpan which costs about $20/lesson.

Barbara: link, please?

Thanks.

Rena in Baltimore <<

Here is the English link:
http://www.ihebrew.com/

Here is the Hebrew link:
http://www.hebrewonline.com/eLearning/HebrewOnline/default.asp

If you sign up, I believe they will give you a discount because I referred you.
Write me privately, if you want to know more about the class.

Barbara

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed." [...]41_30Dec200422:05:51-0800barbmazor@yahoo.com 19683 172 42_Re: LLL and confirming Avivah's suspicions14_Wendy and Jess15_viking@STIS.NET31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 07:09:14 -0500357_iso-8859-1 Just checking in...homeschoolers, homebirthers, LLL (tandem nurser, child led-weaning, one at 4, one at 5, and one at 3...everybody else still going strong, b'li ayin hara!)

Have a great Shabbos!
Wendy (BT) and Jess (geir) in Miami
Esti (9), Moshe Yosef (7), Akiva (5), Rachmy (2) and Yocheved Miriam (born at home on 12/4/04!) [...]37_31Dec200407:09:14-0500viking@STIS.NET 19856 45 14_Re: Any ideas?11_Rivky Kahan22_rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:39:59 -0500721_- >From: Benjamin H Dickman
>Reply-To: Torah-Centered Homeschooling
>To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
>Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] Any ideas?
>Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:45:24 -0500
>>Perhaps your daughter could find a class/teacher there
>where they'd just give her access to study partners
>(chavrusas), which would probably give her learning a
>boost without dragging her out of her comfort zone.
>I'm hoping that the school realizes you are a paying
>customer with your own unique needs that they should
>try to accommodate. How do they understand "chanoch
>l'na'ar al pi darko"? Maybe they'll bend if you
>make a strong case to them.
>
[...]44_31Dec200409:39:59-0500rivkykahan@HOTMAIL.COM 19902 364 42_Re: LLL and confirming Avivah's suspicions8_S Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:19:04 -0500611_US-ASCII OK-I'll admit to being a homebirthing, co-sleeping, one-time
tandem-nursing, erstwhile homeschooling Jewish mother.

And respecter of everyone else's right to choose what's best for their
own family situation! :-)

Love to my torch-d friends
(that means all of y'all),
Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Torah-Centered Homeschooling [mailto:TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG] On
Behalf Of Wendy and Jess
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 7:09 AM
To: TORCH-D@SHAMASH.ORG
Subject: Re: [TORCH-D] LLL and confirming Avivah's suspicions [...]40_31Dec200412:19:04-0500ssloman@netlab.com