1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/torch-d November 2003 1 411 28_Re: problem child/good child17_Francine Sherwood19_tsipi@bellsouth.net31_Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:08:16 -0500539_iso-8859-1 I know I don't post much lately, but for all you with "high needs" children
some of whom are diagnosed, I have two who are diagnosed with ADD/OCD and
TS. I have been homeschooling for 4 years and it was the best thing I did. I
am able to educate each according to their way. My son is 17 now and scored
a 1390 on the SAT, wants to go traveling to Europe/ Austrailia as part of
his high school social studies credit and is slowly ( with the usual
difficulty to focus and to fight the process... writing an [...]38_006101c39fb0$0e09f560$18fc3cd0@teacher 413 1854 35_Forwarding Chain Mails to this list13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com36_Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:08:02 -0800 (PST)538_us-ascii Dear list members -

As I often remind you, this list is a moderated list.
That means that all posts to the list are read for
appropriate contact and approved by me before they are
forwarded to the list. It is very unusual that I
discard someone's post.

Today the list received an e-mail of a request for
help finding a missing child named Penny Brown,
including the request to forward the email to everyone
in "your address book." I realize the
well-intentioned motives for sending it. [...]45_2Nov200319:08:02-0800(PST)barbmazor@yahoo.com 2268 204 30_RE: Some Prayers if you please23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Wed, 19 Nov 2003 04:59:23 -0500511_US-ASCII You are in my prayers for a full and speedy recovery, and all the inner
and outer resources you need to get through this.

May G-d comfort you and heal you completely.

Love,
Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-torch-d@shamash.org [mailto:owner-torch-d@shamash.org] On
Behalf Of Michelle in Nevada
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 8:48 PM
To: About religious Jewish home schooling
Subject: Some Prayers if you please [...]40_19Nov200304:59:23-0500ssloman@netlab.com 2473 172 13_RE: Newbie...23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Wed, 19 Nov 2003 05:30:56 -0500693_US-ASCII Welcome, Nakia! Feel free to ask whatever questions you have about the
conversation, either here or to me privately.

Any listmember who would like to access the archives, please see the
Shamash mailing list FAQ:

http://shamash.org/help/LPuser-faq.shtml

(Other questions you have may be answered there, as well.)

We look forward to your participation!

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-torch-d@shamash.org [mailto:owner-torch-d@shamash.org] On
Behalf Of NDawkins03@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 12:19 PM
To: About religious Jewish home schooling
Subject: Newbie... [...]40_19Nov200305:30:56-0500ssloman@netlab.com 2646 3687 30_Re: Some Prayers if you please13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com37_Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:34:49 -0800 (PST)707_us-ascii Michelle -

You are in my thoughts and prayers.

May you have not only successful surgery, but a speedy
and comfortable recovery.

Don't forget to drop us a line to let us know how you
are doing when you are back on your feet.

Barbara

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

------------------------ torch-d@shamash.org -----------------------+
Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org
a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an
online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]46_19Nov200309:34:49-0800(PST)barbmazor@yahoo.com 6334 1700 21_RE: Torah Unschooling23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:58:10 -0500405_us-ascii Devorah, having recently had the pleasure of meeting you and your
wonderful family, let me say that, as always, Hashem has made the
perfect match of mother and children.

I see not only your great strength in dealing with many challenges, but
your open heart and ability to see the blessings your children bring, in
spite of whatever difficulties you experience with them. [...]40_24Nov200322:58:10-0500ssloman@netlab.com 8035 33 13_Keep it Civil13_Barbara Mazor19_barbmazor@yahoo.com37_Tue, 25 Nov 2003 15:01:25 -0800 (PST)371_us-ascii Just a reminder as we get into discussion that seem to
be touching on deep areas of personal opinions....

Remember to keep the tone of your discourse civil,
avoid sarcasm and snottiness, and maybe don't hit the
send button right away, but wait an hour, and reread
what you wrote AND what you are responding to before
you hit the send. [...]46_25Nov200315:01:25-0800(PST)barbmazor@yahoo.com 8069 635 21_RE: Torah unschooling23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Tue, 25 Nov 2003 20:17:57 -0500505_us-ascii LOL! It took me awhile to figure out what you meant here. At first I
thought you had peyote growing in the corners of your yard! I wondered
what the Rambam had to say about THAT!

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-torch-d@shamash.org [mailto:owner-torch-d@shamash.org] On
Behalf Of Michelle in Nevada
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:34 AM
To: About religious Jewish home schooling
Subject: Re: Torah unschooling [...]40_25Nov200320:17:57-0500ssloman@netlab.com 8705 1481 8_Civility23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Wed, 26 Nov 2003 05:24:01 -0500444_us-ascii Just wanted to follow up on Barbara's caution.

I am so happy that there are a number of active and informative
discussions going on here right now. It's really helpful to see the
range of approaches and opinions. What a wonderful spectrum of Jewish
homeschoolers there are!

As long as posts are on topic (which right now seems very much to be the
case), we are free to debate, discuss, question, assert. [...]40_26Nov200305:24:01-0500ssloman@netlab.com 10187 42 34_RE: Needing to vent (Xmas related)23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:12:25 -0500659_us-ascii AND I heard that you're allowed to decorate your sukkah with xmas
lights!

Shoshana Sloman
Torch-d listowner

>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-torch-d@shamash.org
>[mailto:owner-torch-d@shamash.org] On Behalf Of Malkie Swidler
>Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 2:36 AM
>To: About religious Jewish home schooling
>Subject: Re: Needing to vent (Xmas related)
>
>
>We live in Israel.
>
>All I know about Dec. 25 this year is that it's Rosh Hodesh
>Hanukkah. We
>have a homeschooler get-together scheduled. :)
>
>Just another benefit of living in the Holy Land...
>
>Malkie [...]40_27Nov200308:12:25-0500ssloman@netlab.com 10230 1793 20_RE: Chanuka presents23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Thu, 27 Nov 2003 08:14:13 -0500634_us-ascii The American minhag seems to be giving presents.

My personal feeling is that it's fun and nice to do, but should not
overshadow the other Chanukah festivities and their meanings.

Come to think of it, I suppose that would be similar to the attitude of
a religious Christian toward xmas gifts.

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-torch-d@shamash.org [mailto:owner-torch-d@shamash.org] On
Behalf Of Michelle in Nevada
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 11:22 PM
To: About religious Jewish home schooling
Subject: Re: Chanuka presents [...]40_27Nov200308:14:13-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12024 80 12_RE: internet23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 05:49:09 -0500343_us-ascii Moriah, I agree.

Like every tool Hashem gives us, the internet can be turned into a
blessing or a curse by our own actions.

We can use it to elevate our souls, reach out to others in chesed, and
enjoy the world G-d made.

Or we can use it to degrade oursouls, spread negativity, and abuse the
world. [...]40_28Nov200305:49:09-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12105 152 29_RE: A plug for Singapore Math23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:11:34 -0500649_us-ascii Thanks for the great info, Chana!

Someone else on the list also told me they use Singapore math and really
like it.

I relate to what you say about the manipulative approach. I will say
that some of those problems are avoided by using Miquon math workbooks
in combination with Cusinnaire rods.

The Miquon books take the kids through in a logical progression
(incorporating multiplication and division early on, by the way, as
those operations can be shown as they relate to addition and
subtraction). There is not a lot of actual instruction--mostly the kids
figure stuff out by experimenting. [...]40_28Nov200306:11:34-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12258 40 13_Harold Jacobs23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:17:39 -0500524_us-ascii For higher math, there are several well-written books by Harold Jacobs
that we enjoy.

Here is a review of his approach:

http://www.pahomeschoolers.com/jacobs.html

Our oldest son (age 12) is going through the algebra book, which begins
at a pre-algebra level and goes through approximately a second-year
algebra text.

As he works through the problems, I've noticed that they are cleverly
arranged to help the student observe principles, without any overt
explanation. [...]40_28Nov200306:17:39-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12299 231 24_A Reason for Handwriting23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 06:43:16 -0500416_us-ascii "A Reason for Handwriting" is from a Christian publisher, and uses Bible
verses as the content.

The first (kindergarten level) deals with learning to trace shapes and
letters, and is on Creation themes (animals, etc.)

The next book is verses from Tehillim and Mishlei.

But past that NT verses begin to be used.

This raises that recurring question about the fact that: [...]40_28Nov200306:43:16-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12531 81 29_FW: A plug for Singapore Math23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:09:04 -0500685_us-ascii >-----Original Message-----
>From: Eli Silberstein [mailto:es79@cornell.edu]
>Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:01 AM
>To: ssloman@netlab.com
>Subject: RE: A plug for Singapore Math
>
>
>>I relate to what you say about the manipulative approach. I will say
>>that some of those problems are avoided by using Miquon math
>workbooks
>>in combination with Cusinnaire rods.
>
>Perhaps my h-schooled children are older than most on the list ( 12
>and 11).. because they finished all six Miquoin math books years
>ago.. very happily, I must add-- I have always found them a great
>resource, with and without the rods.
>
>They [...]40_28Nov200307:09:04-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12613 175 17_FW: Harold Jacobs23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:09:19 -0500488_us-ascii -----Original Message-----
From: Eli Silberstein [mailto:es79@cornell.edu]
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:03 AM
To: ssloman@netlab.com
Subject: Re: Harold Jacobs

For higher math, there are several well-written books by Harold Jacobs
that we enjoy.

I have been wondering about Jacobs for a long time. Glad to hear it is
working for you.. I look forward to tracking down a copy and adding it
to our collection of math resources.
Chana [...]40_28Nov200307:09:19-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12789 44 29_FW: A plug for Singapore Math23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 07:23:48 -0500744_us-ascii >I don't think your kids are necessarily older than those of
>others on the list.
>
>But, of course, you're right, Miquon is usually for younger
>kids (generally through the age of third grade).
>
>Thanks for bringing up that clarification.
>
>Shoshana Sloman
>Torch-d listowner
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-torch-d@shamash.org
>>[mailto:owner-torch-d@shamash.org] On Behalf Of Shoshana
>Amelite Sloman
>>Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 7:09 AM
>>To: About religious Jewish home schooling
>>Subject: FW: A plug for Singapore Math
>
>>>Perhaps my h-schooled children are older than most on the list ( 12
>>>and 11).. because they finished all six Miquoin [...]40_28Nov200307:23:48-0500ssloman@netlab.com 12834 274 28_FW: A Reason for Handwriting23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 10:45:55 -0500682_us-ascii -----Original Message-----
From: Bill Bernstein [mailto:bbernst@edge.net]
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 10:22 AM
To: ssloman@netlab.com
Subject: Re: A Reason for Handwriting

Shoshana,
I think how one approaches these issues will depend on how one sees the
world. For many, the world is inherently a hostile place for Jews and
Judaism and the best response is to tune it out. For others there is no
generalizing: some things (like missionaries knocking on your door) are
hostile. Some things (like English grammar) are neutral. And some
things, like Xmas, are merely expressions of those who live around us.
We move through it [...]40_28Nov200310:45:55-0500ssloman@netlab.com 13109 266 27_FW: using secular materials23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 11:28:41 -0500672_us-ascii -----Original Message-----
From: RENALEVIN@aol.com [mailto:RENALEVIN@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 11:02 AM
To: ssloman@netlab.com
Subject: Re: using secular materials

We have had to deal with this in learning biology at the high school
level.

Interestingly, I chose a textbook that happens to be used by some of the
local yeshivas/bais yaakovs.

My son got through 2 chapters and said, mommy this is apikorsus! I am
not going to read this. While the book was secular, the content on
evolution and science vs. religion was there and imbedded in the text,
you had to read critically and analytically. [...]40_28Nov200311:28:41-0500ssloman@netlab.com 13376 108 16_RE: (no subject)23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Fri, 28 Nov 2003 12:08:43 -0500571_us-ascii Amy, that is so sweet of you to say.

I agree with you. This is a wonderful bunch, and I have learned so much
from the people here. It's good to be a part of it!

And it's really good to have you here with us, Amy.

Gut Shabbos to all!

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-torch-d@shamash.org [mailto:owner-torch-d@shamash.org] On
Behalf Of Patchoulimama@aol.com
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 12:04 PM
To: About religious Jewish home schooling
Subject: (no subject) [...]40_28Nov200312:08:43-0500ssloman@netlab.com 13485 48 29_FW: A plug for Singapore Math23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Sat, 29 Nov 2003 18:51:24 -0500669_us-ascii >-----Original Message-----
>From: Malkie Swidler [mailto:swidler@netvision.net.il]
>Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 4:01 PM
>To: ssloman@netlab.com
>Subject: Re: A plug for Singapore Math
>
>
>Shoshana--
>
>> Our 8-year-old has a great ability to intuit the underlying concepts
>> of math. But memorizing facts is extremely difficult for him. Just
>> like memorizing spelling, Hebrew vocabulary, etc.
>>
>> I'm getting to the point where I am starting to relax about this. I
>> am beginning to trust that this will come for him over time, as we
>> keep learning.
>
>I have a bil just like this-- when [...]40_29Nov200318:51:24-0500ssloman@netlab.com 13534 204 28_FW: A Reason for Handwriting23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Sat, 29 Nov 2003 18:51:24 -0500681_us-ascii >-----Original Message-----
>From: Louise Fox [mailto:louise@joshuafox.com]
>Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 4:28 PM
>To: ssloman@netlab.com
>Subject: Re: A Reason for Handwriting
>
>
>If you feel the need to use a published workbook, then you
>have to find
>a way to deal with these issues.
>If you are able/willing to build your own 'program' (however
>structured
>or unstructured you make it) you can use whatever you like.
>You can give
>your child verses from Tehillim and Mishlei to write out for
>handwriting
>practice. And you can move on to verses from any other book of the
>Torah, adapting according to [...]40_29Nov200318:51:24-0500ssloman@netlab.com 13739 684 27_FW: using secular materials23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:26:39 -0500661_us-ascii -----Original Message-----
From: Francine Sherwood [mailto:tsipi@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Friday, November 28, 2003 9:43 PM
To: ssloman@netlab.com
Subject: Re: using secular materials

I would love to read your analysis of his different points. I know with
the biology program he talks about germs or something and tries to say
that the purification of the high priest prevented any problems. That is
when I told my daughter to just skip the G-d stuff in the book. But I
would love to hear someone with more background discuss his points in
light of yiddishkeit. (Maybe we need a background booklet to go with the
[...]40_29Nov200321:26:39-0500ssloman@netlab.com 14424 104 59_RE: Are the basics as important as they are made out to be?23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Sat, 29 Nov 2003 21:55:53 -0500478_us-ascii Thank you so much for this encouragement, Rachel!

My husband and I had similar experiences of not memorizing math facts
and then forever feeling that we were "behind". We didn't want that for
our children!

But I think I'm just going to have to plow forward with things as they
are, and, as you say, giving lots of encouragement to our son! That's
one of the beauties of homeschooling--the freedom to progress in an
"unorthodox" order! [...]40_29Nov200321:55:53-0500ssloman@netlab.com 14529 374 23_FW: Christian curricula23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:26:38 -0500685_us-ascii -----Original Message-----
From: Susan Lapin [mailto:suelap@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 10:23 PM
To: ssloman@netlab.com
Subject: Christian curricula

Shoshana,

We do exactly what Rena does, and use Apologia as well, though I prefer
their books for seventh and eighth grade over the high school ones.
We've also done this with history, because secular books leave out
religion from areas like the founding of this country and the Civil War
and that is simply deceptive. I'd rather work with the Christian books
and it's led to fascinating discussions. I think we need to be very
careful not to convey to our [...]40_29Nov200322:26:38-0500ssloman@netlab.com 14904 233 23_FW: Christian curricula23_Shoshana Amelite Sloman18_ssloman@netlab.com31_Sat, 29 Nov 2003 22:30:42 -0500724_us-ascii Beautifully said, Susan.

Shoshana Sloman
torch-d listowner

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Lapin [mailto:suelap@earthlink.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 10:23 PM
To: ssloman@netlab.com
Subject: Christian curricula

Shoshana,

We do exactly what Rena does, and use Apologia as well, though I prefer
their books for seventh and eighth grade over the high school ones.
We've also done this with history, because secular books leave out
religion from areas like the founding of this country and the Civil War
and that is simply deceptive. I'd rather work with the Christian books
and it's led to fascinating discussions. I think we need to be [...]40_29Nov200322:30:42-0500ssloman@netlab.com