1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/scj-parenting October 2005 2 86 41_Sukkot on the J Site and 70 holiday links13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Fri, 14 Oct 2005 09:15:12 -0400625_- Subject: Sukkot on the J Site and 70 holiday links From: jrichman@jr.co.il

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Hi Everyone!

Sukkot is the Jewish holiday that commemorates how protective "Clouds of Glory" surrounded the Jewish people after leaving Egypt during the forty years of wandering in the desert. It also commemorates how the Jews lived in temporary dwellings during that same time. Sukkot begins Monday evening, October 17 and continues until Wednesday, October 26th 2005. (In Israel, ends Tuesday night, October 25th.) [...] 89 60 52_Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Tue, 18 Oct 2005 15:27:00 -0400649_- Subject: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: "Avi Jacobson"

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I have been participating in a discussion of this subject on another (parenting-related) board and am interested in hearing other people's opinions.

Specifically, a poster (presumably Christian) will be holding a baby shower around Christmas time, and was considering giving away "Seasonal" (but non-religious) party favors such as tree decoration balls. She wondered whether Jewish guests at her party would be offended by this. [...] 150 71 56_Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:07:04 -0400717_- Subject: Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: Kevin Karplus

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On 2005-10-18, Avi Jacobson wrote: > Specifically, a poster (presumably Christian) will be holding a baby=20 > shower around Christmas time, and was considering giving away=20 > "Seasonal" (but non-religious) party favors such as tree decoration=20 > balls. She wondered whether Jewish guests at her party would be=20 > offended by this. .... So here I am. How would you feel if you were=20 > invited to a baby shower by a Christian friend toward the end of=20 > December, [...] 222 66 41_Re: Party favors offending Jewish guests?13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Wed, 19 Oct 2005 17:30:09 -0400685_- Subject: Re: Party favors offending Jewish guests? From: Robin Shapiro

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I'm Jewish, belong to a Conservative congregation, attend shul regularly, etc. I am also not easy to offend. I can't really imagine taking offense at the favors distributed to adult guests at a private party. If it were a children's party sponsored by an ostensibly secular organization (read as: school Christmas party) I might advocate for secular, not holiday-related, party favors, but if someone were to give me a Christmas ornament, I'd just give it to a friend or co-worker who could [...] 289 40 52_Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:18:21 -0400602_- Subject: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: Cyndi Norwitz

I wouldn't be offended at all. Where is the offense? The party is not about the individual guests. The party is as you stated a baby shower. Now, if it were me and I was throwing a party that was close to a religious holiday whereby I would be giving seasonal party favor...like menorah, some chanukah favor and I did have non-jewish attendees, I would probably have somethingelse to give to my non- jewish friends. I wouldn't look at it like it the party favor would offend someone but [...] 330 51 52_Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:20:26 -0400568_- Subject: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: "Wendy Darrow"

<< So here I am. How would you feel if you were invited to a baby shower by a Christian friend toward the end of December, and were given a tree ball as a party favor? Would you be highly offended?>> I wouldn't be too offended, though I might think it was a bit narrow-minded that they would think everyone puts up a tree. But, mostly I would think "What a waste of this person's money! I will never use a tree ball!" and then would give it to [...] 382 45 52_Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:24:01 -0400651_- Subject: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: tova stabin

I would feel offended. While they are not religious, per say, Christmas trees are Christian (Christian secular culture, if you will) and giving christmas tree ornaments to everyone makes the assumption that "christmas" is what we ALL celebrate, that christmas is somehow the norm. I am nowhere near orthodox (secular and reconstructionist) and I'm offended by people assuming I do anything about christmas. On the other hand, if a christian person invited me to their home to share in THEIR celebration, that's fine (just as I might invite a [...] 428 57 52_Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:24:43 -0400625_- Subject: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: "Irene Bleiweiss"

I consider myself observant. I would not find this hostess' shower favor offensive, but neither would I consider it especially thoughtful of her Jewish guests. The purpose of a Christmas tree decoration is . . . to hang it on a Christmas tree! So the hostess is being presumptive in assuming that her Jewish guests will have any use for the gift. The hostess also may not be aware of potential problems for Jewish parents. For example, the parent may have explained to her children that they do not [...] 486 65 52_Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:26:12 -0400611_- Subject: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: Cyndi Norwitz

The only thing I took offense at described in your post was the idea that to be a real Jew, a religious person, you have to support the Israeli government's positions. But that's another issue altogether. :-) Most party favors are silly things that get thrown out when the person gets home. They're generally a waste. I don't have more use for a little plastic champaign glass with a wedding couple's names embossed on a ribbon (an actual wedding favor I once recieved) than I do for a Christmas [...] 552 55 36_Administrivia: Submission Procedures13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Wed, 19 Oct 2005 23:01:39 -0400456_- Subject: Administrivia: Submission Procedures From: "Daniel P Faigin"

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I just spent a little bitt of time cleaning out backed up stuff from the queue. It appears that if you do submissions by sending to the mailing list side address (scj-parenting@...), they get stuck, lose some of their headers, and may never see the light of day. [...] 608 58 56_Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Thu, 20 Oct 2005 11:18:57 -0400546_- Subject: Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: kgold@watson.ibm.com (kgold)

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"Avi Jacobson" writes:

>> >> Specifically, a poster (presumably Christian) will be holding a baby >> shower around Christmas time, and was considering giving away "Seasonal" >> (but non-religious) party favors such as tree decoration balls. She >> wondered whether Jewish guests at her party would be offended by this. [...] 667 82 56_Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Thu, 20 Oct 2005 12:58:29 -0400707_- Subject: Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: "fred"

Avi Jacobson wrote:

>> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3D0.0 required=3D5.0 tests=3Dnone autolearn=3Dno >> version=3D2.63 >> >> I have been participating in a discussion of this subject on another >> (parenting-related) board and am interested in hearing other people's >> opinions. >> >> Specifically, a poster (presumably Christian) will be holding a baby >> shower around Christmas time, and was considering giving away "Seasonal" >> (but non-religious) party favors such as tree decoration balls. She >> wondered whether Jewish guests at her party would be offended by this. >> >> I expressed [...] 750 103 40_Re: party favors offending Jewish guests13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Fri, 21 Oct 2005 17:06:47 -0400669_- Subject: Re:party favors offending Jewish guests From: "Adelle D. Stavis"

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Avi Posts:

"I have been participating in a discussion of this subject on another (parenting-related) board and am interested in hearing other people's opinions.

"Specifically, a poster (presumably Christian) will be holding a baby shower around Christmas time, and was considering giving away "Seasonal" (but non-religious) party favors such as tree decoration balls. She wondered whether Jewish guests at her party would be offended by this. [...] 854 48 46_Re: Naming baby the same as a living relative?13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Sun, 23 Oct 2005 18:36:15 -0400610_- Subject: Re: [SCJ-PARENTING] Naming baby the same as a living relative? From: Cyndi Norman

Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:50:09 -0400 From: rhharris123@hotmail.com

The dilemma is that my 19-yr old cousin was named after him too. (He actually goes by Henry, not Hank.) So the question we cant seem to figure out is whether its ok to name him after my grandfather, or whether the custom of not naming a baby after a living relative would apply. Obviously, we would be naming him after my grandfather, not my cousin, but...I just don't know. I have read conflicting opinions on [...] 903 51 64_Re: SCJ-PARENTING Digest - 15 Oct 2005 to 19 Oct 2005 (#2005-21)13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Sun, 23 Oct 2005 20:18:19 -0400508_- Subject: Re: SCJ-PARENTING Digest - 15 Oct 2005 to 19 Oct 2005 (#2005-21) From: fisch.chips@att.net (Aliza Fischman)



I would have to agree with the first poster that it doesn't seem to make much sense. Most of the people at the shower will probably have young kids, who they don't want near glass ornaments. I think candy canes are non-religious enough. In the northern NJ area, I see them with an OU all over the place, so she can even not worry if she has any guests who keep kosher. [...] 955 80 25_Re: Learning the alphabet13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Sat, 29 Oct 2005 12:30:15 -0400609_- Subject: Re: [SCJ-PARENTING] Learning the alphabet From: Cyndi Norman

Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:53:06 -0400 From: SCJP Approval

I have a 5-year old friend who didn't do well in pre-kindergarten, if one can believe that is possible. He doesn't know his letters![...] His parents would like him to catch up to the other kids before the fall. He doesn't write them all correctly, and I'm not positive he can start with just a name and draw every one of them. [...] I don't know about 5-year olds. He doesn't talk a lot and it's still very hard [...] 1036 49 46_Re: Naming baby the same as a living relative?13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:44:35 -0500610_- Subject: Re: [SCJ-PARENTING] Naming baby the same as a living relative? From: Cyndi Norman

Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:50:09 -0400 From: rhharris123@hotmail.com

The dilemma is that my 19-yr old cousin was named after him too. (He actually goes by Henry, not Hank.) So the question we cant seem to figure out is whether its ok to name him after my grandfather, or whether the custom of not naming a baby after a living relative would apply. Obviously, we would be naming him after my grandfather, not my cousin, but...I just don't know. I have read conflicting opinions on [...] 1086 70 64_Re: SCJ-PARENTING Digest - 15 Oct 2005 to 19 Oct 2005 (#2005-21)13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:45:34 -0500555_- Subject: Re: SCJ-PARENTING Digest - 15 Oct 2005 to 19 Oct 2005 (#2005-21) From: "Adelle"

Aliza,

Hi. Just an FYI that red and green do have a religious meaning. It was originally adopted from pagan practices in Northern Europe (the holly and holly berries of the nature based religions), but to put the church's stamp on it, they say the red is for the "blood of Christ" and the green is either for the tree from which the cross came or from the renewal to be anticipated at Easter time (I've heard both). [...] 1157 58 56_Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors13_SCJP Approval25_scjp-approved@shamash.org31_Sun, 30 Oct 2005 09:46:15 -0500534_- Subject: Re: Jews Receiving Non-Religious "Seasonal" Party Favors From: kgold@watson.ibm.com (kgold)

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"Avi Jacobson" writes: > > Specifically, a poster (presumably Christian) will be holding a baby > shower around Christmas time, and was considering giving away "Seasonal" > (but non-religious) party favors such as tree decoration balls. She > wondered whether Jewish guests at her party would be offended by this. [...]