1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/scj-parenting June 2003 2 53 68_[SCJ-PARENTING:7092] Call For Votes: misc.kids.* reorg revote issued7_just me15_nospam@here.com28_Mon, 2 Jun 2003 01:34:47 EDT514_-

A Call for Votes (CFV) for a misc.kids.* reorganization has just been posted to news.announce.newgroups and various misc.kids.* newsgroups. If you are interested in this proposal and would like to vote on it, please see message ID <1054495845.30505@isc.org> in news.announce.newgroups or misc.kids.

Please note that this is a REVOTE on this proposal. The first vote was invalidated due to technical problems, so even if you voted on the first iteration of this proposal, YOU MUST VOTE AGAIN. [...] 56 115 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7093] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_chiam margalit19_margalitc@yahoo.com28_Mon, 2 Jun 2003 20:21:48 EDT444_- "Robert" wrote in message news:... > "chiam margalit" wrote > > I find this abhorrant. What is the difference between this type of > > behaviour and segregating Jews from specific neighborhoods, clubs, and > > jobs? It's reverse discrimination and it's wrong. > > Why is it abhorrent to say that Jews should marry Jews? [...] 172 46 65_[SCJ-PARENTING:7095] Computer/Internet rules/limits for children?12_Seth Rogovoy21_rogovoy@berkshire.net28_Tue, 3 Jun 2003 08:42:41 EDT405_- We've just hooked up the kids' computer to a DSL line, and given them Email accounts, so now it is potentially a lot more fun for them to spend time on line.

I'm wondering what sorts of rules and/or limits parents impose on their children in terms of how much time they can spend on the computer and/or on line surfing the web, and how parents monitor or limit their children's web surfing. [...] 219 54 69_[SCJ-PARENTING:7096] Re: Computer/Internet rules/limits for children?5_kgold20_kgold@watson.ibm.com28_Tue, 3 Jun 2003 10:23:04 EDT585_-

We limit our son to 60 minutes of "tube time" a day, including television, video games, and Internet. Research for school projects is exempt.

As for monitoring, I think putting the computer in a public place beats any software solution.

"Seth Rogovoy" writes: > We've just hooked up the kids' computer to a DSL line, and given them > Email accounts, so now it is potentially a lot more fun for them to > spend time on line. > > I'm wondering what sorts of rules and/or limits parents impose on their > children in terms of how much [...] 274 158 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7097] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com28_Tue, 3 Jun 2003 17:46:03 EDT712_- margalitc@yahoo.com (chiam margalit) wrote in message news:... > "Robert" wrote in message news:... > > "chiam margalit" wrote > > > I find this abhorrant. What is the difference between this type of > > > behaviour and segregating Jews from specific neighborhoods, clubs, and > > > jobs? It's reverse discrimination and it's wrong. > > > > Why is it abhorrent to say that Jews should marry Jews? > > Whoa Nelly, Robert. Who is talking about MARRIAGE? In case you aren't > aware, the vast majority of SSDS schools only go up to 8th grade, [...] 433 43 69_[SCJ-PARENTING:7098] Re: Computer/Internet rules/limits for children?13_Kevin Karplus25_karplus@bray.cse.ucsc.edu28_Tue, 3 Jun 2003 18:43:12 EDT243_- We limit our 7-year-old son to one hour of screen time a day (except when we take him out to a movie). He hasn't shown any interest in web surfing yet, as the games on the web are less appealing to him than the ones he has on CD-ROM.

477 124 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7099] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools6_Robert31_judaismfaqs@yahoo.com.spammenot28_Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:49:45 EDT420_- "chiam margalit" wrote > Whoa Nelly, Robert. Who is talking about MARRIAGE? In case you aren't=20 > aware, the vast majority of SSDS schools only go up to 8th grade, and=20 > unless I'm sorely mistaken, 8th graders aren't quite up to marriage.=20 > You cannot possibly equate attending a dance with a gentile friend as=20 > the same thing as marriage. You're really stretching reality here. [...] 602 55 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7100] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools8_Splanche16_splanche@aol.com28_Wed, 4 Jun 2003 16:55:16 EDT600_- >All the more reason to avoid situations that make it more likely to >occur. You would object much more strenuously to putting your kids >into situations that you considered physically dangerous, like the >drug culture or a street gang. Why react any differently to a situation >os spiritual danger?

I disagree with you here. I think that negative reinforcement (you CAN'T date non-jews) is something the kids can rebel against. I remember growing up, we had a family friend who indoctrinated his daughter from the time she could talk with "you need to find a Jewish boy." She ended up [...] 658 49 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7101] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools5_kgold20_kgold@watson.ibm.com28_Thu, 5 Jun 2003 03:03:49 EDT343_-

I think you are on the right track. Just stating the rule with no reason isn't likely to work. I think there are two parts:

1 - As you said, a strong Jewish identity. Even further, understanding why it's valuable and worth preserving.

2 - Understanding why that preservation is difficult with a non-Jewish spouse. [...] 708 56 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7103] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools0_38_"Knut KlavenessHeidelberg"@SHAMASH.ORG28_Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:17:31 EDT606_- On Wed, 07 May 2003 15:41:23 -0000, Alexandra J Schmidt wrote:



>I do not know if the school's chaperones ask all non-students at the=20 >door if they are Jewish, or only ones who look less likely to be=20 >Jewish. Either way, though, the situation is not a pleasant one (and=20 >the immediate exclusion falls on a young person who is not in fact=20 >breaking any rule--the "fault" is the Jewish student's). > >What on earth do other schools do, in terms of policy and practice? > >At the moment I am grateful that my children are preschoolers, but that [...] 765 85 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7104] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_Aliza Fischman28_fisch.chips@worldnet.att.net28_Thu, 5 Jun 2003 10:04:21 EDT356_- I have been holding my tongue here for a while, but I feel like I have to say something. To me, much of parenting is instilling Jewish values in my children. These values include strict observance of Torah and Mitzvot. A significant part of this is Jewish Family Values. A few points along this line have occurred to me while reading various posts. [...] 851 46 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7105] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools8_Splanche16_splanche@aol.com28_Thu, 5 Jun 2003 14:04:48 EDT534_- >In this particular case isn't there actually a law against asking=20 >questions about religion? >

If it were a public school there would be. However, private school and private function- I'm betting there are no laws that were broken.

I still question the way the school handled it though-- asking at the door is such an embarrassing thing, and too late at that point to do anything about it. =20 Why on earth they didn't ask for names of guests beforehand so they could verify things is beyond me. - Blanche=20 [...] 898 61 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7106] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com28_Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:06:31 EDT596_- splanche@aol.com (Splanche) wrote

> >All the more reason to avoid situations that make it more likely to > >occur. You would object much more strenuously to putting your kids > >into situations that you considered physically dangerous, like the > >drug culture or a street gang. Why react any differently to a situation > >of spiritual danger? > > I disagree with you here. I think that negative reinforcement (you CAN'T > date non-jews) is something the kids can rebel against. I remember growing up, > we had a family friend who indoctrinated his daughter from the time she could [...] 960 62 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7107] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_Robyn Kozierok25_robynk@nautilus.shore.net28_Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:21:28 EDT494_- In article <20030530143538.04553.00000171@mb-m21.aol.com>, Splanche wrote: >>Is it the school's place to dictate >>the students' friendships? Perhaps, in the context of school-sponsored >>social events it is. > >It seems that the decision of whether or not a child should be attending a >dance with a non-Jew is more appropriately answered by the parent than the >school.. obviously this kid's parents were aware that their child was bring >a guest, you would assume. [...] 1023 73 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7108] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_Robyn Kozierok25_robynk@nautilus.shore.net28_Sat, 7 Jun 2003 16:21:30 EDT561_- In article <1054816089scjp-submit@shamash.org>, Aliza Fischman wrote: >*As an institution of Jewish learning, the SSDS system has a >responsibility to the parents and the children to help instill Jewish >values. One of those values is not dating outside of the Faith. I have >no problem with friendships, but dating is a whole other situation. >When parents, no matter what their level of observance at home, decide >to send their children to a Jewish school, they are making a strong >statement that Judaism is important. [...] 1097 41 66_[SCJ-PARENTING:7109] Need Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo14_Robyn Kozierok25_robynk@nautilus.shore.net28_Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:24:17 EDT304_- My 10 yo son has asked us to buy him a book containing the Torah stories in Hebrew with vowels so he can try to read it. He also wants English translations, ideally both direct and also a more colloquial version or age-appropraite commentary. Can you think of anything that fits this description? [...] 1139 86 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7110] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools6_Howian14_howian@aol.com28_Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:59:16 EDT450_- In addition to being morally abhorent, it is probably a violation of state and federal civil rights laws. If a function like a dance is open to the public, one may not selectively question blacks or for that matter any one else who looks different. It is not different than an open church carnival with the sign, no Jews allowed. Having opened themselves to the public, that are required to conduct themselves in a non-discriminatory fashion. [...] 1226 55 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7112] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools15_Hillary Israeli19_hillary@hillary.net28_Mon, 9 Jun 2003 08:50:21 EDT547_- In <20030608185200.21192.00000246@mb-m20.aol.com>, Howian wrote:

*In addition to being morally abhorent, it is probably a violation of state *and *federal civil rights laws. If a function like a dance is open to the *public, *one may not selectively question blacks or for that matter any one else who *looks different. It is not different than an open church carnival with the *sign, no Jews allowed. Having opened themselves to the public, that are *required to conduct themselves in a non-discriminatory fashion. [...] 1282 77 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7113] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools7_Barbara21_mom_2_one@hotmail.com28_Mon, 9 Jun 2003 09:20:24 EDT601_- SNIP > I guess one question is, is bringing a friend to a dance necessarily a

> date? Kids are at different places, developmentally, in middle=20 > school. >=20 I believe that the OP referred to an 8th grade dance. Snipped from the 'net:

"Many American teenagers are engaging in behaviors that put them at risk of acquiring HIV infection. Studies indicate that the average age of first sexual experience among U.S. adolescents is 16, and more than half (54 percent) of students in grades 9-12 participating in a 1991 CDC survey reported having sexual intercourse at least once in [...] 1360 51 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7114] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_Aliza Fischman28_fisch.chips@worldnet.att.net28_Mon, 9 Jun 2003 10:54:36 EDT689_- It was a school function, not a community function, as I understood it. Am I wrong?

Aliza



-----Original Message----- From: owner-scj-parenting@shamash.org [mailto:owner-scj-parenting@shamash.org] On Behalf Of Howian Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 11:59 PM Subject: [SCJ-PARENTING:7110] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools



In addition to being morally abhorent, it is probably a violation of state and federal civil rights laws. If a function like a dance is open to the public, one may not selectively question blacks or for that matter any one else who looks different. It is not different than an open church carnival with the sign, no Jews [...] 1412 48 37_[SCJ-PARENTING:7117] Hebrew materials0_15_BKadden@aol.com28_Mon, 9 Jun 2003 16:33:37 EDT507_-

--part1_136.20250795.2c1616ac_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This is for Robyn and others looking for vocalized classical Hebrew materials: I have used materials from EKS Publishing. They are very good. I am sending their website address.

http://www.ekspublishing.com

Also, Barry Dov Lerner from this list contacted me, I was/am having computer woes could he please recontact me. I lost several emails at one point. [...] 1461 86 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7118] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools6_Howian14_howian@aol.com28_Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:45:30 EDT370_- It appears members of the public were let in. It's a murky area, I agree. But there are certainly lawyers who would take this suit, insurers who would recommend settling it, and jurors who would award money to the victims. If you're a school, have a race-neutral admission policy to school events, or alternatively, check the contours of your insurance coverage. [...] 1548 35 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:7119] Blessings at meals6_Howian14_howian@aol.com28_Mon, 9 Jun 2003 22:46:05 EDT452_- How does everyone handle blessing. Do you always say a brucha before you eat, what about if non-jews are present. My rabbi says one can say a brucha silently in such a situation.

============================================================================== This post reflects the author's opinion; the moderators' opinions may differ. Posters seeking medical or halachic information should consult competent authorities in those fields. [...] 1584 111 65_[SCJ-PARENTING:7121] Re: Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo11_Rick Dinitz16_dinitz@tibco.com28_Mon, 9 Jun 2003 23:21:12 EDT334_- Robyn,

You wrote: >My 10 yo son has asked us to buy him a book containing the Torah stories >in Hebrew with vowels so he can try to read it. He also wants English >translations, ideally both direct and also a more colloquial version or >age-appropraite commentary. Can you think of anything that fits this >description? [...] 1696 49 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7122] Re: Blessings at meals0_38_"Knut KlavenessHeidelberg"@SHAMASH.ORG29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:15:06 EDT518_- On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 02:46:21 -0000, howian@aol.com (Howian) wrote:

>How does everyone handle blessing. Do you always say a brucha before=20 >you eat, what about if non-jews are present. My rabbi says one can say

>a brucha silently in such a situation.

Christians also have this problem when having dinner at restaurants and together with non-Christians. How do you say a prayer before eating? Here the solution is to say the prayer silently. I would guess this also goes for the brucha.=20 [...] 1746 47 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7123] Re: Blessings at meals5_kgold20_kgold@watson.ibm.com29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 09:24:28 EDT485_-

If non-Jews are present at our table, we still say the blessing, and invite our guests to say theirs as well. At other people's homes, we are more subtle.

Non-Jews have never presented a problem. Non-observent Jews tend to be less tolerant. :-(

howian@aol.com (Howian) writes: > How does everyone handle blessing. Do you always say a brucha > before you eat, what about if non-jews are present. My rabbi says > one can say a brucha silently in such a situation. 1794 41 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7124] Re: Blessings at meals8_Splanche16_splanche@aol.com29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:07:02 EDT404_- >How does everyone handle blessing. Do you always say a brucha before you >eat, >what about if non-jews are present. My rabbi says one can say a brucha >silently in such a situation.

Whose home is it? I think in your own home, if you normally say one, it shouldn't matter who is present at the table. At someone else's home, silently would seem to be the most appropriate option. - Blanche [...] 1836 51 41_[SCJ-PARENTING:7125] Re: Hebrew materials14_Robyn Kozierok16_robynk@shore.net29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 12:09:33 EDT436_- BKadden@aol.com wrote in message news:<1055178280scjp-submit@shamash.org>... > --part1_136.20250795.2c1616ac_boundary > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >=20 > This is for Robyn and others looking for vocalized classical Hebrew > materials: I have used materials from EKS Publishing. They are very=20 > good. I am sending their website address. >=20 > http://www.ekspublishing.com [...] 1888 99 65_[SCJ-PARENTING:7126] Re: Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo14_Robyn Kozierok16_robynk@shore.net29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:33:03 EDT650_- "Rick Dinitz" wrote in message news:<1055189191scjp-submit@shamash.org>... > I don't know of any single book that has everything you seek, but you could > cover the whole range by combining a few editions from the group that I'll > summarize below.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

> One good start is a school series published in Israel (Hebrew only), which > begins with Bereshit Sheli, continues with Shmot-Vayikra Sheli, and > finishes with Bamidbar-Dvarim Sheli. The full Hebrew text features vowels > and adds modern punctuation, but lacks taamei hamikra (trop marks). Each > pasuk begins on a new line, [...] 1988 57 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7127] Re: Blessings at meals15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 15:09:27 EDT598_- kgold@watson.ibm.com (kgold) wrote in message news:... > If non-Jews are present at our table, we still say the blessing, and=20 > invite our guests to say theirs as well. At other people's homes, we=20 > are more subtle. >=20 > Non-Jews have never presented a problem. Non-observent Jews tend to=20 > be less tolerant. :-( >=20 > howian@aol.com (Howian) writes: > > How does everyone handle blessing. Do you always say a brucha=20 > > before you eat, what about if non-jews are present. My rabbi says=20 > > one can say a brucha silently in such a situation. [...] 2046 47 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7128] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_Robyn Kozierok16_robynk@shore.net29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:20:13 EDT562_- howian@aol.com (Howian) wrote in message news:<20030608185200.21192.00000246@mb-m20.aol.com>... > In addition to being morally abhorent, it is probably a violation of state > and > federal civil rights laws. If a function like a dance is open to the > public, > one may not selectively question blacks or for that matter any one else who > looks different. It is not different than an open church carnival with the > sign, no Jews allowed. Having opened themselves to the public, that are > required to conduct themselves in a non-discriminatory fashion. [...] 2094 53 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7129] RE: Blessings at meals14_Aliza Fischman28_fisch.chips@worldnet.att.net29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 22:20:49 EDT499_- Ideally, a bracha should always be said before we eat. I teach my children that just like they say 'please' and 'thank you' to humans, brachot do the same to Hashem. A blessing can be said silently as long as your lips are moving with no problem whatsoever. Whenever I am with those who have no idea what just happened, if they have a curious look on their faces, I just tell them. They usually think it is "cool" or "interesting" and then conversation goes back to what it was about before. [...] 2148 60 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7130] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools15_Hillary Israeli19_hillary@hillary.net29_Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:40:53 EDT497_- **************************************** MODERATOR'S NOTE: This post is being permitted as a legitimate follow-up on the issue of children's maturity at this particular age and grade level. However, please ensure that further posts address Jewish parenting-related issues and encompass more than simply nostalgia or "school days" anecdotes. Thanks! ****************************************

In <66e906fc.0306071732.7045c73d@posting.google.com>, Barbara wrote: [...] 2209 56 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7131] Re: Blessings at meals15_Hillary Israeli19_hillary@hillary.net29_Wed, 11 Jun 2003 10:16:40 EDT645_- In , kgold wrote:

*If non-Jews are present at our table, we still say the blessing, and *invite our guests to say theirs as well. At other people's homes, we *are more subtle. * *Non-Jews have never presented a problem. Non-observent Jews tend to *be less tolerant. :-(

What do you mean by that? Have you had a situation in which Jews less observant than you have reacted negatively to your saying blessings before eating?? Is that what you are saying here?????? Pardon my excessive punctuation. I am having an extremely difficult time believing that could be the case, [...] 2266 45 70_[SCJ-PARENTING:7132] Re: Need Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo0_29_jerosenb@frog.hcs.harvard.edu29_Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:20:51 EDT360_- robynk@nautilus.shore.net (Robyn Kozierok) writes: >My 10 yo son has asked us to buy him a book containing the Torah stories >in Hebrew with vowels so he can try to read it. He also wants English >translations, ideally both direct and also a more colloquial version or >age-appropraite commentary. Can you think of anything that fits this >description? [...] 2312 45 70_[SCJ-PARENTING:7133] Re: Need Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo15_Janet Rosenbaum29_jerosenb@frog.hcs.harvard.edu29_Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:00:20 EDT360_- robynk@nautilus.shore.net (Robyn Kozierok) writes: >My 10 yo son has asked us to buy him a book containing the Torah stories >in Hebrew with vowels so he can try to read it. He also wants English >translations, ideally both direct and also a more colloquial version or >age-appropraite commentary. Can you think of anything that fits this >description? [...] 2358 108 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7134] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools6_Jfer P17_J3fer@hotmail.com29_Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:31:51 EDT547_- Wow! What an incredible thread! Just when you think we've covered everything under the sun...

Like Aliza, there have been a few issues I wanted to comment on, but I'll try to keep it brief:

1) Racism: OK... I grew up liberal, and I hate the idea of doing anything by race or colour. There it is. My shul has black Jews, Asian Jews, all kinds of Jews, and I'm happy and proud because I've always envied Christians the kind of cultural diversity you take for granted in almost any church. So I don't like that aspect of it. But [...] 2467 93 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7135] Re: Blessings at meals6_Jfer P17_J3fer@hotmail.com29_Thu, 12 Jun 2003 00:35:46 EDT327_- Respectfully, I disagree with Knut's interpretation. Silent prayer is important to both religions. However, in Judaism, while personal prayers can be thought silently or spoken (or sung!), as Fred pointed out, formal prayer does has to be out loud -- even if it's so quiet only us & God can actually make out the words. [...] 2561 53 57_[SCJ-PARENTING:7137] Re: Torah/Bible book recommendations12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@mindspring.com29_Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:18:42 EDT323_- I have to weigh in here and say that I really dislike the Little=20 Midrash series. I have the whole series, since I use it as a=20 reference when I write about the parsha for a web site. But I cringe=20 when I see my 9-year-old daughter sitting and reading it... I=20 actually tell her I don't want her to read it! [...] 2615 53 59_[SCJ-PARENTING:7138] Last Call For Votes: Misc.Kids.* reorg7_just me15_nospam@here.com29_Fri, 13 Jun 2003 09:38:17 EDT506_- A Call for Votes (CFV) for a misc.kids.* reorganization has just been posted to news.announce.newgroups and various misc.kids.* newsgroups. If you are interested in this proposal and would like to vote on it, please see message ID <1054495845.30505@isc.org> in news.announce.newgroups or misc.kids.

Please note that this is a REVOTE on this proposal. The first vote was invalidated due to technical problems, so even if you voted on the first iteration of this proposal, YOU MUST VOTE AGAIN. [...] 2669 55 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7139] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_Robyn Kozierok16_robynk@shore.net29_Sat, 14 Jun 2003 15:23:28 EDT642_- J3fer@hotmail.com (Jfer P) wrote in message news:... > With all respect to Marjorie, "play-dating" with non-Jews at age 12 > DOES inevitably lead to "real dating" with non-Jews at age 18 or 19.

With all due respect, I think your use of "inevitably" is a little overly dramatic here.

I went to public schools. Although we were not allowed to "invite" people to our middle school dances, I danced with non-Jewish boys from my school at them. Even in high school and college, I went out with groups that included non-Jews and danced with non-Jewish kids. But I never "dated" [...] 2725 58 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7140] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Sun, 15 Jun 2003 10:20:13 EDT651_- robynk@shore.net (Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message news:... > J3fer@hotmail.com (Jfer P) wrote in message > news:... > > With all respect to Marjorie, "play-dating" with non-Jews at age 12 > > DOES inevitably lead to "real dating" with non-Jews at age 18 or 19. > > With all due respect, I think your use of "inevitably" is a little > overly dramatic here. > > I went to public schools. Although we were not allowed to "invite" > people to our middle school dances, I danced with non-Jewish boys from > my school at them. Even in high school and [...] 2784 131 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7141] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools14_chiam margalit19_margalitc@yahoo.com29_Mon, 16 Jun 2003 08:07:54 EDT630_- J3fer@hotmail.com (Jfer P) wrote in message news:... > Wow! What an incredible thread! Just when you think we've covered > everything under the sun...

snip



> With all respect to Marjorie, "play-dating" with non-Jews at age 12 > DOES inevitably lead to "real dating" with non-Jews at age 18 or 19. > Which DOES indeed lead straight to the chuppah, or rabbi plus > minister, or non-denominational clergy who tiptoe around any mention > of Jesus or "the laws of Moshe and Israel." Unless at some age > between 12 and 18 we draw the line and said "no more [...] 2916 88 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7142] Re: Blessings at meals24_Knut KlavenessHeidelberg33_heidelbergNOTinUSE@notINushome.no29_Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:40:30 EDT409_- On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 04:30:06 -0000, J3fer@hotmail.com (Jfer P) wrote:

>Respectfully, I disagree with Knut's interpretation. Silent prayer is >important to both religions. However, in Judaism, while personal >prayers can be thought silently or spoken (or sung!), as Fred pointed >out, formal prayer does has to be out loud -- even if it's so quiet >only us & God can actually make out the words. [...] 3005 45 65_[SCJ-PARENTING:7143] Re: Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo14_chiam margalit19_margalitc@yahoo.com29_Mon, 16 Jun 2003 22:41:04 EDT605_- robynk@shore.net (Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message > > I was looking at the Artscroll Kestenbaum Tikkun, and something like > that with a slightly more child-accessible translation and/or > commentary would be perfect. I think he'd love seeing the Torah > script alongside the more readable version.

Have you looked at Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's _Living Torah_. It's a chumash but the translations are excellent, it's great for older kids (my kids got theirs in 3rd grade) and it has maps. I love the maps. I found that my kids follow along nicely with this chumash, unlike the other version used [...] 3051 53 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7144] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools0_29_jerosenb@frog.hcs.harvard.edu29_Mon, 16 Jun 2003 23:28:51 EDT580_-

People are skirting the major issues. What one thinks other people's children should be doing is entirely irrelevant. The only situation which matters is that a non-Jewish boy, who happens to be black, has shown up at an event at which he may not be welcome. The ONLY acceptable action is the gracious one. Anything else is a chillul hashem. The stakes are further raised because he is black and turning him away looks like Jewish racism, which creates an even bigger chillul hashem, and because the spirit of the law to love the ger (convert) is to extend oneself [...] 3105 53 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7145] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools15_Janet Rosenbaum29_jerosenb@frog.hcs.harvard.edu29_Tue, 17 Jun 2003 00:40:49 EDT580_-

People are skirting the major issues. What one thinks other people's children should be doing is entirely irrelevant. The only situation which matters is that a non-Jewish boy, who happens to be black, has shown up at an event at which he may not be welcome. The ONLY acceptable action is the gracious one. Anything else is a chillul hashem. The stakes are further raised because he is black and turning him away looks like Jewish racism, which creates an even bigger chillul hashem, and because the spirit of the law to love the ger (convert) is to extend oneself [...] 3159 53 44_[SCJ-PARENTING:7146] Shabbos Camping, Take 26_Jfer P17_J3fer@hotmail.com29_Tue, 17 Jun 2003 10:43:26 EDT476_- OK... those who have been around for years will know I posted a message on this subject umm... four years ago. But there's plenty of new blood here now, and -- I hope -- great new ideas!

My kids (8 and 7) and I are Shomer Shabbos, going camping for a few days to a fairly "civilized" campground-type area. The twist this time is that my parents are coming along, and I'm worried that they, more than my children, might get restless over a Shabbat stuck in camp. [...] 3213 68 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:7147] Re: dating/dance policies at day schools15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:51:36 EDT619_- Janet Rosenbaum wrote in message news:... > People are skirting the major issues. > What one thinks other people's children should be doing is entirely > irrelevant. The only situation which matters is that a non-Jewish boy, > who happens to be black, has shown up at an event at which he may not > be welcome. The ONLY acceptable action is the gracious one. Anything > else is a chillul hashem. The stakes are further raised because he > is black and turning him away looks like Jewish racism, which creates > an even bigger chillul hashem, and [...] 3282 95 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7148] Re: Blessings at meals15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Tue, 17 Jun 2003 13:51:56 EDT634_- Knut KlavenessHeidelberg wrote in message news:... > On Thu, 12 Jun 2003 04:30:06 -0000, J3fer@hotmail.com (Jfer P) wrote: > > >Respectfully, I disagree with Knut's interpretation. Silent prayer is > >important to both religions. However, in Judaism, while personal > >prayers can be thought silently or spoken (or sung!), as Fred pointed > >out, formal prayer does has to be out loud -- even if it's so quiet > >only us & God can actually make out the words. > > OK. > > > > >It IS harder sometimes with non-Jews present. I tend to "forget" to > [...] 3378 62 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7149] Re: Blessings at meals24_Knut KlavenessHeidelberg27_heidelberg@gospelsearch.org29_Wed, 18 Jun 2003 12:17:29 EDT518_- On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 17:49:31 -0000, fredr5@juno.com (Fred Rosenblatt) wrote:

>What's to "put on"? My children wear their kippot from the time they >arise until they go to sleep.

Perhaps ours too will some day - at least as far as they are at home. So far they haven't been too happy about the kippa. Although last week we bought some a new kippa with bright colors and to our big surprise all the 3 children (2 boys, 1 girl) wanted to wear it. Would you say it is OK for a girl to wear the kippa? [...] 3441 79 66_[SCJ-PARENTING:7150] Reminder to be Civil to others on this group.0_15_anolick@att.net29_Fri, 20 Jun 2003 16:09:32 EDT354_- I've been lurking on this group for a long time, I think I have only posted once before. Truth is I'm so busy that I don't have time to read all of these posts.

I missed a bunch of the recent discussion, but some I read got me a bit concerned. There seem to be some trashing of Jews who choose different ways to be Jewish than the Posters. [...] 3521 52 65_[SCJ-PARENTING:7151] Re: Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo14_Robyn Kozierok25_robynk@nautilus.shore.net29_Sat, 21 Jun 2003 14:57:39 EDT666_- In article , chiam margalit wrote: >robynk@shore.net (Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message > >> I was looking at the Artscroll Kestenbaum Tikkun, and something like >> that with a slightly more child-accessible translation and/or >> commentary would be perfect. I think he'd love seeing the Torah >> script alongside the more readable version. > >Have you looked at Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's _Living Torah_. It's a chumash >but the translations are excellent, it's great for older kids (my kids >got theirs in 3rd grade) and it has maps. I love the maps. I found >that my kids follow along nicely [...] 3574 40 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:7152] Re: Blessings at meals5_Yoxar13_yoxar@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Jun 2003 05:49:47 EDT430_- When Avraham Avinu, the first Jew had guests, he encouraged them to bless Hashem . A Jew is supposed to be"bold as a leopard" and not worry about what others think of him doing mitzvos because making a "dwelling place" for Hashem in the world is the purpose of creation. Not only should you make a brocha, but you should encourage your guests to bless Hashem too in whatever language they understand. May Hashem bless you. [...] 3615 67 65_[SCJ-PARENTING:7153] Re: Torah/Bible book recommendation for 10yo14_chiam margalit19_margalitc@yahoo.com29_Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:34:29 EDT706_- robynk@nautilus.shore.net (Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message news:... > In article , > chiam margalit wrote: > >robynk@shore.net (Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message > > >> I was looking at the Artscroll Kestenbaum Tikkun, and something like > >> that with a slightly more child-accessible translation and/or > >> commentary would be perfect. I think he'd love seeing the Torah > >> script alongside the more readable version. > > > >Have you looked at Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's _Living Torah_. It's a chumash > >but the translations are excellent, it's great for older kids (my kids > >got theirs in [...]