1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/scj-parenting October 2000
2 39 36_[SCJ-PARENTING:5532] Re: small kvell5_Chana27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM28_Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:41:10 EDT389_- Adelle said:
>Dilemma - How can I (a card carrying ACLU member) explain to my 9 yr. old >the inappropriateness of her choice of song for a public school chorus, >while grinning from ear to ear?
Thanks for reminding me why I chose to homeschool---so my kids can feel totally comfortable with anything they choose to sing, religious or not, without causing controversy. [...]
42 60 57_[SCJ-PARENTING:5534] Re: Curriculum for Jewish preschool?12_Yael Resnick22_njpmail@mindspring.com28_Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:09:06 EDT429_- Hi Hadass!
There's a magazine called Early Childhood in the Jewish World, which comes out twice a year and is filled with creative, multidisciplinary curriculum ideas for 2- to 5-year-olds (e.g., exploring Jewish holidays or themes through music, drama, math, science, art, language, etc.). The editor's name is Chanie Zalmanov. You can get more information by calling (718) 464-0778, or e-mail chabad14EQ@aol.com. [...]
103 46 60_[SCJ-PARENTING:5535] Re: Yiddish Lullaby and bedtime stories10_Rebeccadan18_rebeccadan@aol.com28_Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:43:53 EDT518_- lkgeo1@aol.com wrote:<>
I don't know of a website, but I'd recommend the CD 'Sleep My Child' Blue Hill Recordings BHR 105-CD. It's a collection of Jewish lullabes in Yiddish, Hebrew, Ladino and English.
It includes: Rozhines mit Mandlen, Ad ikh volt gehat, Amol iz geven a Mayse, Shlof mayn Kind, shlof keseyder, Shlof mayn Tockhter and Oyfn Pripetshik among its 20 songs, and my twins found it very relaxing. [...]
150 40 50_[SCJ-PARENTING:5536] How do you treat a toy torah?14_Betsy Schwartz16_betsys@shore.net29_Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:16:21 EDT552_- Maddy, age almost-4, has gotten it into her head that I am bringing her a "torah" - by which she means a toy plush torah like they use at the tot shabbat at the shul. A picture of one such object is at http://www.jewish.com/store/product901.html
I feel kinda funny about this. It's cool that she wants one, and I don't want to discourage her, but how would you treat this? Like a torah, to be handled reverently? Like a book, to be handled carefully? Like a stuffed animal, to be tossed around? It'd be fun to have for Simchat Torah, but [...]
191 33 54_[SCJ-PARENTING:5538] Re: How do you treat a toy torah?8_Splanche16_splanche@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:56:20 EDT370_- >I feel kinda funny about this. It's cool that she wants one, and I don't >want to discourage her, but how would you treat this? Like a torah, to be >handled reverently? Like a book, to be handled carefully? Like a stuffed >animal, to be tossed around?
My opinion-- It is to be treated like a stuffed toy. It's religious in = design only. =20 - Blanche=20 [...]
225 53 54_[SCJ-PARENTING:5539] Re: How do you treat a toy torah?6_Jfer P31_Jennifer@toronto.circadence.com29_Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:18:43 EDT340_- Betsy wrote: > It's cool that she wants one, and I don't > want to discourage her, but how would you treat this? Like a torah, to be > handled reverently? Like a book, to be handled carefully? Like a stuffed > animal, to be tossed around? It'd be fun to have for Simchat Torah, but it > wouldn't be fun if she couldn't play with it. [...]
279 50 54_[SCJ-PARENTING:5540] Re: How do you treat a toy torah?15_Irene Bleiweiss16_IBLEIWEI@fcc.gov29_Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:19:03 EDT527_- In several synagogues I've seen these stuffed fabric torahs stored in toy = boxes along with other toddler toys of a nonreligious nature. So I assume = that the rabbis there have concluded that they don't need to be treated = absolutely "reverently." =20
Nevertheless, I view such toys as a way for kids to model using and = caring for the real thing. I'd draw the analogy that a stuffed torah is = to a real torah as a baby doll is to a real baby. During playtime, I'd = not let my kids throw it around or treat [...]
330 47 44_[SCJ-PARENTING:5541] Living as a minority...4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:24:13 EDT480_- We live in a very small town with a very small Jewish population. Very small. I like to say that we have 100 Jews in the area and when my son was born we had 101. ;)
Anyway, my kids aren't in public school yet. My daughter, 3 1/2, goes to a Jewish preschool which is a 40 minute drive from us. (ugh!) My son is only 10 months. But I look to the time when they'll attend public school and think about the fact they might be the only Jewish children in their classes. [...]
378 78 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:5542] Re: Living as a minority...a little long8_Splanche16_splanche@aol.com29_Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:13:23 EDT525_- I went through this myself as a kid. Although we were not very far from = some much more "Jewish" areas", I was the only Jew in my school district, which happened to be about 70% Catholic. =20 My sister had it much worse than me-- she ended up with the stinky music teacher who, during the Christmas season, aware that my sister was jewish, called her up to the front of the class to explain why she was "different = than all the other kids." For an eight-year old this was a terrible experience.= =20 I do think it's [...]
457 115 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5543] Re: Living as a minority...5_Chana27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:51:31 EDT352_- evad said:
>We live in a very small town with a very small Jewish population. Very >small. I like to say that we have 100 Jews in the area and when my son = was >born we had 101. ;)
I know the feeling. :-) We live in an area I grew up in, which (when I was = a child) was solidly Orthodox Jewish, similar to NYC's Lower East Side. [...]
573 97 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5544] Re: Living as a minority...11_Leah Adezio16_sladezio@nac.net29_Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:16:03 EDT513_-
DRUM wrote in message >We live in a very small town with a very small Jewish population. Very >small. I like to say that we have 100 Jews in the area and when my son was >born we had 101. ;) > >Anyway, my kids aren't in public school yet. My daughter, 3 1/2, goes to a >Jewish preschool which is a 40 minute drive from us. (ugh!) My son is only >10 months. But I look to the time when they'll attend public school and >think about the fact they might be the only Jewish children in their >classes. [...]
671 35 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5545] Re: Living as a minority...4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:18:20 EDT554_- While I do think that schools and teachers are more "PC" now in that they'll be more aware of other holidays than just Christian ones, I'm sure my kids will do their share of caroling. "I had a little dreidel" can't compete with Rudolph, Frosty et. al. But I feel that as long as my kids feel comfortable and confident in themselves, hearing an xmas song, or even singing one, isn't going to hurt them. The key is to make them feel that being Jewish is a wonderful thing, that being "different" than their classmates makes them unique, not weird. [...]
707 62 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5546] Re: Living as a minority...12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:51:40 EDT608_- As Leah said, communication is key. I would start asking questions early, finding out what the school/class does for holidays, etc. Then decide what you are comfortable with and where you want to suggest alternatives.
I don't ask for parity. First of all, I don't want a non-Jewish teacher teaching about Jewish subjects. It doesn't belong there, nor do I trust all teachers to do it well. Secondly, parity doesn't always exist. For example, if the choir is singing beautiful Christmas carols (which fortunately *doesn't* happen at our school) it seems ridiculous to ask them to sing "I have a [...]
770 42 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:5547] Funny things they sing14_Jan Silbermann16_js@cs.tulane.edu29_Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:27:46 EDT373_-
David's preschool class sings a song that goes like this...
(To the tune of 'Clementine') Dip the apple in the honey, say a bracha loud and clear. L'shana tova u'mesooka. Have a very sweet new year.
David's version goes like this:
Dip the apple in the honey, say a bracha I can't hear. Shoshana and Tovah in the sukkah. have a new year. [...]
813 76 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5548] Re: Living as a minority...10_I. Pour-El18_pourel@iastate.edu29_Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:46:16 EDT571_- In our small community, constant vigilance is necessary to minimize what some people call "mistakes" but I call disinterest. Example: this year the 8th grade welcoming dance was scheduled erev RHS. The president of our synagogue has complained. The response will probably be, "We didn't notice & we're sorry." Since the high holidays appear in every date book & occur every fall, the truth is they don't care or they'd bother to check. If we don't immediately challenge each "minor issue" their frequency & importance increase. It is very tiresome, but necessary. [...]
890 39 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5549] Re: Living as a minority...15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:00:15 EDT612_- In article <9NoF5.61$g71.3588@news3.voicenet.com>, "DRUM" wrote:
>While I do think that schools and teachers are more "PC" now in that they'll >be more aware of other holidays than just Christian ones, I'm sure my kids >will do their share of caroling. "I had a little dreidel" can't compete >with Rudolph, Frosty et. al. But I feel that as long as my kids feel >comfortable and confident in themselves, hearing an xmas song, or even >singing one, isn't going to hurt them. The key is to make them feel that >being Jewish is a wonderful thing, that being "different" than their [...]
930 44 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5550] Re: Living as a minority...12_Ron Kritzman18_ron-k@mediaone.net29_Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:11:50 EDT419_- DRUM wrote:
> The key is to make them feel that being Jewish is a wonderful thing, > that being "different" than their classmates makes them unique, not > weird.
One December, a work acquaintance asked if I had put up my tree yet. I politely responded that I'm Jewish and we don't celebrate Christmas. He shook his head and told me "Christmas isn't religious. Its just a regular American holiday." [...]
975 70 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5551] Re: Living as a minority...15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:24:57 EDT595_- In article <20001012105727.27023.00003560@ng-cg1.aol.com>, yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM (Chana) wrote:
>evad said: >
>>Home schooling is not an option, nor is moving to a more "Jewish" area. >> >>urmommy > >For me, I cannot move to a "more Jewish area" because around here, = those=20 >areas out WAY out of what we can afford.
I made the decision to leave the San Francisco Bay Area for the Los=20 Angeles area a few years before I even had children, because I had promised myself after my public school experience that my children would go to day school. =20 [...]
1046 57 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5552] Re: Living as a minority...15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:17:33 EDT356_- In article <9NoF5.61$g71.3588@news3.voicenet.com>, "DRUM" wrote:
>While I do think that schools and teachers are more "PC" now in that they'll >be more aware of other holidays than just Christian ones, I'm sure my kids >will do their share of caroling. "I had a little dreidel" can't compete >with Rudolph, Frosty et. al. [...]
1104 93 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5553] Re: Living as a minority...4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:51:19 EDT667_-
Fred Rosenblatt wrote in message news:fredr5-1310001122380001@mac99124170840.jpl.nasa.gov... > In article <9NoF5.61$g71.3588@news3.voicenet.com>, "DRUM" > wrote: > (snip) > > And shouldn't, since "Chanukah caroling" is not a parallel Jewish activity. > Although after hearing some of the Yeshiva boys singing "Al Hanisim" you > might find yourself humming it for weeks. > > >But I feel that as long as my kids feel > >comfortable and confident in themselves, hearing an xmas song, or even > >singing one, isn't going to hurt them. The key is to make them feel that > >being Jewish is a wonderful thing, that being [...]
1198 97 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5554] Re: Living as a minority...11_Leah Adezio16_sladezio@nac.net29_Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:35:42 EDT650_-
I. Pour-El wrote in message <8s6vfm$8ju$1@news.iastate.edu>... >In our small community, constant vigilance is necessary to minimize what some >people call "mistakes" but I call disinterest. Example: this year the 8th >grade welcoming dance was scheduled erev RHS. The president of our synagogue >has complained. The response will probably be, "We didn't notice & we're >sorry." Since the high holidays appear in every date book & occur every >fall, the truth is they don't care or they'd bother to check. If we don't >immediately challenge each "minor issue" their frequency & importance >increase. It is very tiresome, but necessary. [...]
1296 78 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5555] Re: Living as a minority...13_Judith Gordon18_judith011@home.com29_Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:37:18 EDT468_-
Ron Kritzman wrote:
> DRUM wrote: > > > The key is to make them feel that being Jewish is a wonderful thing, > > that being "different" than their classmates makes them unique, not > > weird. > > One December, a work acquaintance asked if I had put up my tree yet. I > politely responded that I'm Jewish and we don't celebrate Christmas. He > shook his head and told me "Christmas isn't religious. Its just a > regular American holiday." [...]
1375 70 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5556] Re: Living as a minority...5_Chana27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:42:11 EDT582_- Fred wrote:
>In article <9NoF5.61$g71.3588@news3.voicenet.com>, "DRUM" > wrote:
>>But I feel that as long as my kids feel >>comfortable and confident in themselves, hearing an xmas song, or even >>singing one, isn't going to hurt them.
Fred said:
>That sounds great in theory, but I see two possible problems. First, >that would require you to provide one heck of a strong Jewish home life >as the bulwark of their comfortable and confident Jewish identity, >seemingly, from your description, with little or no outside support. [...]
1446 72 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5557] Re: Living as a minority...10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:47:14 EDT585_-
"Ron Kritzman" wrote in message news:39E7336F.B1CA7288@mediaone.net... > DRUM wrote: > > > The key is to make them feel that being Jewish is a wonderful thing, > > that being "different" than their classmates makes them unique, not > > weird. > > One December, a work acquaintance asked if I had put up my tree yet. I > politely responded that I'm Jewish and we don't celebrate Christmas. He > shook his head and told me "Christmas isn't religious. Its just a > regular American holiday." > > This will be the toughest part to overcome. Some people [...]
1519 56 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5559] Chanukah in Public Schools14_Aliza Fischman28_fisch.chips@worldnet.att.net29_Mon, 16 Oct 2000 02:22:02 EDT589_- There has been lots of discussion about Jewish kids in public schools "learning" about Chanukah or singing Xmas songs and Chanukah songs in school. I wanted to share with you my own experience. Last year, as part of my teacher training/ certification program, I had to do both Practicum and Student Teaching programs in public schools. My practicum was during the fall semester, and hence included the "holiday season." My cooperating teacher knew that I was an Orthodox Jew and asked me teach about Chanukah. I was thrilled at the prospect of them knowing more than just "I Have a [...]
1576 51 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5560] Re: Chanukah in Public Schools5_Chana27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:55:19 EDT355_- fisch.chips said:
> I was, however, a little taken aback when she said, >"Just try not to focus on the religious aspect so much.
And:
>I think it went VERY well, and >the kids really got to understand a little more about it, but it still >bothered me that she felt it necessary to ask me to "keep religion out of >it". [...]
1628 45 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5561] Re: Living as a minority...16_Evelyn C. Leeper18_eleeper@lucent.com29_Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:54:42 EDT541_- In article <39e72bcc_2@nntp2.nac.net>, Leah Adezio wrote: > > The one holdover from schools being more 'Christian' that bugs me for some > reason is that during Lent, the school menu has a fish dish on Fridays. > It's an odd 'bugs me', I know, but it's there.
Why? This is exactly what we're asking them to do--be more accepting of various religious requirements. If Catholics/Eastern Orthodox are required to abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent, isn't it reasonable for the school to avoid serving it? [...]
1674 62 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5562] Re: Living as a minority...5_Chana27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:31:14 EDT437_- Leah Adezio said:
>> The one holdover from schools being more 'Christian' that bugs me for some >> reason is that during Lent, the school menu has a fish dish on Fridays. >> It's an odd 'bugs me', I know, but it's there.
This is interesting, because I live in a very Catholic area (used to be half-Jewish and half-Catholic, now is little Jewish, still very Catholic, and some Asians and Pakistanis.) [...]
1737 54 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5563] Re: Funny things they sing4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:11:19 EDT543_-
Jan Silbermann wrote in message news:8s6u5b$qom$1@rs10.tcs.tulane.edu... > > David's preschool class sings a song that goes like this... > > (To the tune of 'Clementine') > Dip the apple in the honey, > say a bracha loud and clear. > L'shana tova u'mesooka. > Have a very sweet new year. > > David's version goes like this: > > Dip the apple in the honey, > say a bracha I can't hear. > Shoshana and Tovah in the sukkah. > have a new year. > > Jan, mommy to Tovah (10) Eliana (8) Asher (5) > David (almost 3) [...]
1792 58 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5564] Re: Living as a minority...11_Leah Adezio16_sladezio@nac.net29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 01:37:43 EDT646_-
Evelyn C. Leeper wrote in message <8sf5sb$95j@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>... >In article <39e72bcc_2@nntp2.nac.net>, Leah Adezio wrote: >> >> The one holdover from schools being more 'Christian' that bugs me for some >> reason is that during Lent, the school menu has a fish dish on Fridays. >> It's an odd 'bugs me', I know, but it's there. > >Why? This is exactly what we're asking them to do--be more accepting >of various religious requirements. If Catholics/Eastern Orthodox are >required to abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent, isn't it >reasonable for the school to avoid serving it? > >It's similar to the [...]
1851 37 44_[SCJ-PARENTING:5565] CTTS - The Shofar Train15_Gina Marie Wade23_gmwade@worldnet.att.net29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:52:39 EDT367_- Our apartment complex is located about 500 yards away from some railroad tracks. Freight trains pass by several times during the day or night, and they blow their whistles as they approach an intersection.=20
When we returned home after Rosh Hashanah services the other week, a train was passing through and we could hear the whistle loud and clear.=20 [...]
1889 70 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5566] Re: Chanukah in Public Schools15_Claire Petersky23_cpetersky@earthlink.net29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:28:49 EDT558_-
> "Just try not to focus on the religious aspect so much." I explained to > her that it is a religious holiday and is therefore steeped in religion.
FWIW, I just did a presentation to my daughter's K class about sukkot and didn't focus on the religious aspects. We built and decorated a sukkah for the class. I read "Leo and Blossom's Sukkah" and a page or two about the holiday from books on Jewish holidays from their school library. I also talked a little bit about the symbols of Sukkot (the four species) and showed them what they [...]
1960 44 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5567] Re: CTTS - The Shofar Train4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:19:49 EDT619_-
Gina Marie Wade wrote in message news:39e7759b.37342965@netnews.worldnet.att.net... > Our apartment complex is located about 500 yards away from some > railroad tracks. Freight trains pass by several times during the day > or night, and they blow their whistles as they approach an > intersection.=20 > > When we returned home after Rosh Hashanah services the other week, a > train was passing through and we could hear the whistle loud and > clear.=20 > > Two year old Jacob exclaimed, "A Shofar, Daddy, a Shofar!"=20 > > Gina Marie > My daughter saw a cornucopeia in a window [...]
2005 48 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5568] Re: Chanukah in Public Schools12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:41:56 EDT520_- > It's also why I'd never do a holiday like Simcha Torah, which I also = think > is fun for kids. It's just too religious for the public schools.
While Simchat Torah is low on my list of priorities for "sharing" in a public school, I did want to address what we mean by "religious content." Why is in not PC to tell a group of students that Jews have a custom of reading from the Torah each week and that on Simchat Torah we celebrate finishing and starting over? Then talk briefly about how we celebrate. [...]
2054 95 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5569] Re: Chanukah in Public Schools11_Leah Adezio16_sladezio@nac.net29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:38:07 EDT554_-
Claire Petersky wrote in message ... > >> "Just try not to focus on the religious aspect so much." I explained to >> her that it is a religious holiday and is therefore steeped in religion. > >FWIW, I just did a presentation to my daughter's K class about sukkot and >didn't focus on the religious aspects. We built and decorated a sukkah for >the class. I read "Leo and Blossom's Sukkah" and a page or two about the >holiday from books on Jewish holidays from their school library. I also >talked a little bit about the symbols of Sukkot [...]
2150 53 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5570] Re: CTTS - The Shofar Train11_Leah Adezio16_sladezio@nac.net29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:50:59 EDT523_-
Gina Marie Wade wrote in message <39e7759b.37342965@netnews.worldnet.att.net>... >Our apartment complex is located about 500 yards away from some >railroad tracks. Freight trains pass by several times during the day >or night, and they blow their whistles as they approach an >intersection.=20 > >When we returned home after Rosh Hashanah services the other week, a >train was passing through and we could hear the whistle loud and >clear.=20 > >Two year old Jacob exclaimed, "A Shofar, Daddy, a Shofar!"=20 [...]
2204 95 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5571] Re: Chanukah in Public Schools4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:59:05 EDT586_-
Leah Adezio wrote in message news:39ec8759_1@nntp2.nac.net... > > > Am I the only one here who has a problem with this entire scenario? I mean, > we complain and gripe and moan about 'Christmas in public schools', 'Easter > in public schools' and the like, yet we feel it's appropriate to actively > teach about Sukkot and other Jewish holidays? > > Why? Why is this okay? > > I am firmly of the belief that with few exceptions (comparative > religion/humanities type classes, which seem to be taught more on late jr. > high/high school level, and the [...]
2300 53 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5572] Re: Chanukah in Public Schools14_Marcy Thompson18_marcy@squirrel.com29_Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:04:07 EDT351_- "Leah Adezio" wrote: > >Am I the only one here who has a problem with this entire scenario? I mean, >we complain and gripe and moan about 'Christmas in public schools', 'Easter >in public schools' and the like, yet we feel it's appropriate to actively >teach about Sukkot and other Jewish holidays? > >Why? Why is this okay? [...]
2354 47 55_[SCJ-PARENTING:5575] Re: Chanukah in the public schools0_17_moorejnb@juno.com29_Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:36:42 EDT430_- One school here held a "solstice celebration" and covered all kinds of holidays that take place on, celebrating, or around the winter solstice, including Chanukah. Christmas was put into the context of a midwinter festival and although many Christian parents complained that the notion of Jesus as redeemer was taken out of it (or cast as "mythical"), it really opened kids' eyes as to the essential commonality of belief. [...]
2402 44 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5576] Re: no matzoh during Passover?0_17_moorejnb@juno.com29_Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:37:34 EDT581_- My kids' school offers it on their mandatory lunch plan (kids are not allowed to bring lunches from home). Even though we are not religious, my kids look forward to "matzoh and salad" lunches during Passover at school. (it is a private secular school, though)
It is my impression that one (or many ones) could go to the public school board and ask that a non-bread-based entree alternative be offered during Pesach, and that a case could even be made to have matzoh available. They could always argue that you should pack your kids' lunches that week, but why should [...]
2447 46 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5577] Re: Chanukah in Public Schools5_Chana27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:47:02 EDT432_- I personally have no problem even with Xmas having some religious overtones as long as it doesn't involve proselytization.
I attended public schools from the 1960s thru 1970s and in elementary school I remember singing Xmas carols that spoke of JC. It didn't affect me. I also remember the other Jewish kids singing them too (especially my friend Eileen who always seemed to be singing "sleep in heavenly PEAS"--LOL!) [...]
2494 69 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5578] Re: no matzoh during Passover?4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:13:40 EDT599_-
wrote in message news:971838884scjp-submit@shamash.org... > My kids' school offers it on their mandatory lunch plan (kids are not > allowed to bring lunches from home). Even though we are not religious, > my kids look forward to "matzoh and salad" lunches during Passover at > school. (it is a private secular school, though) > > It is my impression that one (or many ones) could go to the public school > board and ask that a non-bread-based entree alternative be offered during > Pesach, and that a case could even be made to have matzoh available. > They could [...]
2564 103 55_[SCJ-PARENTING:5579] Re: Chanukah in the public schools10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:50:25 EDT491_- > > I likewise believe that a strong Jewish identity is ideally not > threatened by the existence of Christmas celebrations. It is up to us as > parents to build that identity rather than stressing to our kids the > impression that the world is conspiring against them by ignoring the > importance of their tradition. Our own attitudes could be one of > learning, respecting and allowing rather than demanding, forcing and > fussing. This is ultimately the best example for our kids. [...]
2668 57 55_[SCJ-PARENTING:5580] Re: Chanukah in the public schools14_Hadass Eviatar20_eviatar@superhwy.net29_Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:51:18 EDT433_- animzmirot wrote: > For me, I don't > want my kids near Xian celebrations of any kind. I want my > kids to understand that the world IS conspiring against them > (and if you look at the news lately, you'll be pretty > convinced of that statement) and because of that they need > to be a strong and committed Jew, one that knows about their > own history and religion so they can stand up and fight for > what they believe in. [...]
2726 28 51_[SCJ-PARENTING:5581] Re: no matzoh during Passover?8_JanetLDD16_janetldd@aol.com29_Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:08:10 EDT516_- I would most definitely pack lunches for my child that week. Enjoy it as a treat that week. The kids will need some type of snack anyway that the school im sure cannot provide. Is there a kosher caterer who may be able to provide this service
============================================================================== This post reflects the author's opinion; the moderators' opinions may differ. Posters seeking medical or halachic information should consult competent authorities in those fields. [...]
2755 51 48_[SCJ-PARENTING:5582] Re: Living as a minority...15_Hillary Israeli19_hillary@hillary.net29_Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:27:57 EDT657_- In <8sf5sb$95j@nntpb.cb.lucent.com>, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
*In article <39e72bcc_2@nntp2.nac.net>, Leah Adezio wrote: *> *> The one holdover from schools being more 'Christian' that bugs me for some *> reason is that during Lent, the school menu has a fish dish on Fridays. *> It's an odd 'bugs me', I know, but it's there. * *Why? This is exactly what we're asking them to do--be more accepting *of various religious requirements. If Catholics/Eastern Orthodox are *required to abstain from meat on Fridays during Lent, isn't it *reasonable for the school to avoid serving it? * *It's similar to the [...]
2807 61 30_[SCJ-PARENTING:5583] A dilemma5_Chana27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:59:18 EDT336_- I could use some advice, from any here who is frum (observant).
I'm a baal teshuvah, a newly-religious Jew. I was raised somewhat Orthodox, got away from it over the years, during which time I married a gentile xian who is remarkably accepting of my wish to return to being a religious Jew and raising our 3 kids as such. [...]
2869 49 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5584] Re: A dilemma8_Splanche16_splanche@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:19:27 EDT525_- I know that you were looking for a response from an Orthodox parent, which I am not, but I just thought I'd comment for the sake of the forum.... First of all, although I do not keep Kosher, I have friends that do, and their children are allowed to play with mine. I also have relatives that are Lubovich, and they are also very accepting of my nuclear family, and do not try to separate the children. IMHO, I think one of the best things that you can teach the children is that religion is about them and their deeds [...]
2919 55 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5585] Re: A dilemma6_Alison19_aligaus@hotmail.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:55:59 EDT307_- I personally feel that one should tell your children that although these people are Jewish they aren't as observant as you are and this does not make them a bad people. After all hey will grow up in a world where they will have different practices form most other people they come into contact with! [...]
2975 73 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5586] Re: A dilemma14_Hadass Eviatar17_heviatar@home.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 10:11:57 EDT505_-
Chana wrote: > My husband (the gentile xian) said he would not want our kids spending = much > time with their kids because they do not keep kosher. He said to me, "If = you > are going to raise our kids as religious Jews, you can't expose them to > hypocrisy, that is the quickest way to turn them off to Judaism." He = said to me > also, "How will you explain to our kids that we keep kosher because you = are > Jewish, and then have to explain why another family from the same = [...]
3049 78 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5587] Re: A dilemma14_Marcy Thompson18_marcy@squirrel.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:18:29 EDT442_- I think you are setting yourself up for a really bad scene with your kids. If you take this hard hard line about the mitzvot you choose to follow, and teach your children that anyone who does not follow them is a Bad Jew, how will you explain the choices you have made about which mitzvot you don't care about? (Like being married to a non-Jew...) How will you explain your journey from orthodoxy to non-observance back to being frum? [...]
3128 76 30_[SCJ-PARENTING:5589] A dilemma15_Irene Bleiweiss16_IBLEIWEI@fcc.gov29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:07:42 EDT465_- I think that a big part of the dilemma comes from explaining to the = children that you observe "because you're Jewish." It's much more than = that. You're Jewish AND you made a free-will choice to accept and follow = as many mitzvot as you are able to do. Some Jews will be ready, willing, = and able to take on more, and some less at any point in time. Hopefully, = whatever point they are at, they are growing at a pace that is comfortable = to them. =20 [...]
3205 91 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5590] Re: A dilemma6_Jfer P31_Jennifer@toronto.circadence.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:08:35 EDT467_- Chana wrote: > I could use some advice, from any here who is frum (observant).
Your message sounds a little confused... absolutely no offense intended, but most people who would consider themselves "frum" probably wouldn't see YOU (or me, don't worry!) as such. Are you looking for advice only from people who are completely observant yet who approve of intermarriage? I'm afraid that's a pretty small crowd (Senator Lieberman may be the only one...!). [...]
3297 53 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5591] Re: A dilemma17_Kris Hasson-Jones19_snippy@pacifier.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 13:52:01 EDT526_- Chana wrote: >=20 > I could use some advice, from any here who is frum (observant).
I'm not frum but I have some advice anyway.
[...] =20 > We have become friendly with this other family, but they are not=20 > very observant. They come to the O shul because it is the only shul > around, and their kids are in a Conservative day school. >=20 > They invited our kids over, but told us, "We do not keep kosher". > They also have some ideas that I personally don't want my kids=20 > exposed to (having to do [...]
3351 31 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5592] Simchat Torah0_25_benjys_mom@mindspring.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:13:55 EDT553_- I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat Torah.
At our modern Orthodox congregation, there is a lot of singing and dancing, which always spills out into the streets. I like that part, but there is another part I don't like. The children carry small bags, and adults give them candy (or, even worse, the kids walk up to all of the adults and ask for candy). Each time I see this, I am horrified anew. I feel like Simchat Torah is being made into the *Jewish Halloween* (I should add, for the record, that I have no [...]
3383 115 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5593] Re: A dilemma12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:34:15 EDT365_- Jennifer said:
>Are you looking for advice only from people >who are completely observant yet who approve of intermarriage?
maybe what I'm looking for is advice from people in my situation...if = there are any. People who were born Jewish, got away from it, made some mistakes, = and are now trying to do the best they can with what they have. [...]
3499 59 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5594] Re: Simchat Torah6_Jfer P31_Jennifer@toronto.circadence.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 14:36:07 EDT304_- Barbara wrote: > there is another part I don't like. The children carry small bags, and adults give them candy (or, even worse, the kids walk up to all of the adults and ask for candy). Each time I see this, I am horrified anew. I feel like Simchat Torah is being made into the *Jewish Halloween* [...]
3559 53 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5595] Re: A dilemma17_Kris Hasson-Jones19_snippy@pacifier.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:12:58 EDT522_- Chana wrote: > > I could use some advice, from any here who is frum (observant).
I'm not frum but I have some advice anyway.
[...]
> We have become friendly with this other family, but they are not > very observant. They come to the O shul because it is the only shul > around, and their kids are in a Conservative day school. > > They invited our kids over, but told us, "We do not keep kosher". > They also have some ideas that I personally don't want my kids > exposed to (having to do with [...]
3613 46 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5596] Re: Simchat Torah12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:13:17 EDT388_- benjys said:
>I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat Torah. >
At our shul (a very tiny, falling-apart, shtiebel-like shul), we had a march around the bimah seven times, with the kids and their flags right behind the Torahs and the women and men on opposite sides of the bimah (hard to explain without you knowing what our shul looks like.) [...]
3660 59 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5597] Re: Simchat Torah18_Naomi Lynne Pardue29_npardue@steel.ucs.indiana.edu29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:48:41 EDT575_- benjys_mom@mindspring.com wrote: > I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat Torah.
> At our modern Orthodox congregation, there is a lot of singing and dancing, which always spills out into the streets. I like that part, but there is another part I don't like. The children carry small bags, and adults give them candy (or, even worse, the kids walk up to all of the adults and ask for candy). Each time I see this, I am horrified anew. I feel like Simchat Torah is being made into the *Jewish Halloween* (I should add, for the record, [...]
3720 73 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5598] Re: A dilemma14_Betsy Schwartz16_betsys@shore.net29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:13:11 EDT566_- I'm also someone who married a non-Jew and am now on the road to raising my child Jewish. Unlike you, I was raised in a completely secular home. My daughter and I are learning about the rules together but are not as far on the "frum" scale. The issue of kosher has been sidestepped for a while because my husband and daughter are vegetarian+fish eaters, so we don't have any really obviously non-kosher stuff about (my husband has given up shellfish, at least in the house.) He was pretty good-natured about no bread for a week (we did Pesach Sephardi-style, [...]
3794 170 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5599] Re: A dilemma15_Xiphias Gladius10_ian@io.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:08:00 EDT353_- [Mod Note: This post addresses the question of various parental responses = to different Jewish observances, woven into a lengthy personal introduction= . Please keep responses to the parenting issues discussed].=20
My wife asked me to post this, because I may have some relevant experience. I don't know if this will help, but here goes. [...]
3965 40 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5601] Re: Simchat Torah17_Kris Hasson-Jones19_snippy@pacifier.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:44:18 EDT570_- benjys_mom@mindspring.com wrote: > > I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat > Torah.
At the Reconstructionist congregation where I am a member, we have lots of potluck food, the kids make flags (and some years, crowns), the rabbi reads the end of the scroll and then rewinds it to the beginning, stopping occasionally to check where we are and tell a funny story about that section. Then we dance in a big, messy circle around inside our building, passing the Torah around so most people who want to can have a turn carrying it. [...]
4006 71 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5602] Re: A dilemma12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:48:49 EDT535_- Hi Ian,
I loved your post! In some ways I too am (or thought I was) the product of an intercultural marriage.
My mom was born an Italian Catholic (or so she thought), and she converted to Orthodox Judaism a few years before she met my Dad.
My Dad was raised Orthodox but had a lot of gripes about "organized religion". I was raised Orthodox, with my mom giving me the religious end of things, and dad instilling in me a very strong pride in being Jewish (although with him it was more of a cultural thing.) [...]
4078 80 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5603] Re: A dilemma14_Frank Pantaleo22_moles@rochester.rr.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:32:00 EDT657_-
Chana wrote in message <20001021225741.23151.00000358@ng-cs1.aol.com>... >I could use some advice, from any here who is frum (observant). > I hesitated a long time before responding to this, but here goes:
Okay, I am in the same situation as you...a baalat tshuvah, a non-Jewish husband, an Orthodox community. Everyone seemed very accepting, and for awhile, I actually deluded myself into thinking because my husband was totally supportive of our observance and went along with everything (just as yours does), somehow it wouldn't matter that he wasn't Jewish. (as long as we were shomer shabbos and kept the same standard of kashrus [...]
4159 65 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5604] Re: A dilemma12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:20:21 EDT524_- Like some of the other responders, I am not frum. But I am concerned when I see divisiveness within our own "ranks." I think one of the posters said it best when she said there is a spectrum and for any given mitzvah you may say that yes, you observe it or no, you don't observe it *yet*. We will always see differences of opinion. Sometimes those differences are so great that people "label" themselves in different ways (OCR, e.g.). But when we use those labels to create a them vs. us mentality we weaken Judaism. [...]
4225 44 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5605] Re: Simchat Torah12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:21:25 EDT347_- > The children carry small > bags, and adults give them candy (or, even worse, the kids walk up to > all of the adults and ask for candy).
I belong to a Conservative shul. Like you, we have lots of singing and dancing that spills outside on a nice day. Children are given paper flags so they can join the hakafot waving their flags. [...]
4270 69 50_[SCJ-PARENTING:5606] Re: SCJ-PARENTING digest 13026_shalom18_josephs@xtra.co.nz29_Mon, 23 Oct 2000 20:22:13 EDT554_- I've just been reading through the responses to this list, and one thing comes through very strongly; the commitment that all of us have to doing the very best we can to promote Judaism, whatever form that may take, in our families. Its not easy being more observant in a largely non observant group; in the same way, its not easy being observant in a different way from the norm or non observant when others may judge this as being "less Jewish". However, we owe our children an honest presentation of the level of Jewish life that is current in [...]
4340 56 45_[SCJ-PARENTING:5608] The Cost of Being Jewish12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 02:16:09 EDT504_- And no, I don't mean antisemitism. I'm talking about how costly many Jewish religious objects are!
My son will become Bar Mitzvah in a few years, and since I have never hasd experience with this before, I have been doing some reading up ahead of the game.
Tefillin are really, REALLY costly! So are tallitot. So are many other Jewish religious articles, such as the mezuzah (by this I mean the scroll that goes inside, NOT the case.) Although cases are also expensive in many areas. [...]
4397 128 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5609] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish5_Karla16_karla@ntcorp.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:51:43 EDT421_- (Let's see if this gets through...for some reason my posts sometimes have a hard time reaching moderated newsgroups)
Jewish Momma wrote: > > And no, I don't mean antisemitism. I'm talking about how costly many Jewish > religious objects are! > > My son will become Bar Mitzvah in a few years, and since I have never hasd > experience with this before, I have been doing some reading up ahead of the > game. [...]
4526 99 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5610] Re: A dilemma12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 08:59:03 EDT316_- betsys said:
> >I'm also someone who married a non-Jew and am now on the road to raising = my >child Jewish.
There seem to be more and more of us, what with the intermarriage rate = being somewhere around 57% (they say 60% of Reform, 50% of Conservative and 25% = of Orthodox are intermarried.) [...]
4626 72 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5611] Re: Simchat Torah15_Claire Petersky23_cpetersky@earthlink.net29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:31:50 EDT614_- "Naomi Lynne Pardue" wrote in message news:8t217m$klv$2@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu... > benjys_mom@mindspring.com wrote: > > I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat Torah. > > > At our modern Orthodox congregation, there is a lot of > singing and dancing, which always spills out into the > streets. I like that part, but there is another part I don't like. > The children carry small bags, and adults give them candy (or, even worse, > the kids walk up to all of the adults and ask for candy). > > Has this become traditional on Simchat Torah? Is it [...]
4699 47 52_[SCJ-PARENTING:5612] Purim is a Jewish Halloween?!?!14_Aliza Fischman28_fisch.chips@worldnet.att.net29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:33:59 EDT322_- >Anyway, didn't you know? PURIM is the Jewish Hallowe'en!! Only without = >all >the dancing skeletons and creepy stuff... and without the squishy pumpkin >guts to scoop out! :-)
I beg to differ on this point. Yes, THEY dress up on Halloween. Yes, WE dress up on Purim. But that is where the similarity ends. [...]
4747 113 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5613] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish11_Lisa Hertel13_lisa@thor.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:54:00 EDT508_- Jewish Momma wrote: > > And no, I don't mean antisemitism. I'm talking about how costly many > Jewish > religious objects are! > > My son will become Bar Mitzvah in a few years, and since I have never > had > experience with this before, I have been doing some reading up ahead > of the > game. > > Tefillin are really, REALLY costly! So are tallitot. So are many other > Jewish > religious articles, such as the mezuzah (by this I mean the scroll > that go es > inside, NOT the case.) Although cases [...]
4861 56 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:5614] Week-day Hebrew School18_Naomi Lynne Pardue29_npardue@steel.ucs.indiana.edu29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:23:18 EDT550_- Shaina is in third grade this year. At our congregation, that is the year they go from once a week Sunday school to twice a week. (Sunday and Wednesday.) And we immediately found a big problem. Most of the extracurricular activities in town seem to happen on Wednesday. Her brownie troop meets ... Wednesday (fortunately they were able to change the day to accomodate us.) The gymnastics classes at the Y are M/W. Not enough kids signed up for T/R swim classes at the Y, so we were offered the chance to switch to M/W. Soccer is Wednesday.=20 [...]
4918 71 43_[SCJ-PARENTING:5615] Week-day Hebrew School15_Irene Bleiweiss16_IBLEIWEI@fcc.gov29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:46:54 EDT406_- I don't think that weekday activities can ever be easy, on working = parents. With respect to non-religious activities, the best have been = those offered as afterschool enrichment activities in the school building = itself. That's how my kids take karate, ballet, foreign language, and art = classes. Classes are offered most days, so they just don't take any that = conflicted with Hebrew school. [...]
4990 80 78_[SCJ-PARENTING:5617] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish...and what we get in return!6_Jfer P31_Jennifer@toronto.circadence.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:44:27 EDT293_- Karla wrote: > Correct me if I'm wrong here; however, I thought the one of the only > thefts not considered theft was that for religious items. If you need a > these items, most places have them available or can work something out > so that you have them if you're in a need situation. [...]
5071 45 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5618] Re: Week-day Hebrew School17_Lynne Fitzsimmons25_lynne.fitzsimmons@tek.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:46:24 EDT354_- Naomi Pardue asks about week-day Hebrew School, vs evening...
Our synagogue couldn't have a Wednesday evening Hebrew school - that is Religious High School (7th grade and up) night, and the building is full. We've got MW and TTh afternoon Hebrew school, and the building gets a short break on Wednesdays before the High School kids arrive. [...]
5117 55 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5619] Re: Week-day Hebrew School47_Douglas W. Jones,201H MLH,3193350740,319338287918_jones@cs.uiowa.edu29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 13:47:43 EDT555_- >From article <8t48v8$c0$1@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu>, by Naomi Lynne Pardue : > ... But I found > myself wondering WHY, ...
A different why, but useful:
There's an old tradition of one afternoon a week religious school that's far more widespread than just the Jewish community. Catholics had their catechism classes, many churches had their confirmation classes, and the school districts tended to cooperate by avoiding scheduling after school activities on that one day of the week to accomodate this. [...]
5173 60 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5620] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish14_Hadass Eviatar20_eviatar@superhwy.net29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:43:06 EDT333_- Jewish Momma wrote: >=20 > And no, I don't mean antisemitism. I'm talking about how costly many = Jewish > religious objects are!
As others have mentioned, passing them down through the family can be a precious tradition. If you buy your son a good tallit now, he should be able to use it all his life. Ditto tefillin. [...]
5234 70 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5621] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:48:16 EDT427_- Lisa said:
>You can do without on some of these things. A bar mitzvah doesn't need a >big, catered party.
For spiritual reasons I have always been against the big, obscene lavish affair. Too much "Bar" and not enough "mitzvah. :-)
I plan to have a small gathering just for the shul members (all 15 of them!) and some friends and family of mine (most of my family is dead, so not many people there.) [...]
5305 54 41_[SCJ-PARENTING:5622] Gender-based Seating15_Irene Bleiweiss16_IBLEIWEI@fcc.gov29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 14:49:53 EDT313_- This is for single or intermarried Jewish parents out there.
How do you handle seating arrangments when attending O shuls with a = school-aged child of the oppostite sex? My son is almost 6, and getting = kind of old to sit with me in the woman's section. Dad isn't Jewish, so = doesn't attend. =20 [...]
5360 62 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5623] Re: Week-day Hebrew School17_Kris Hasson-Jones19_snippy@pacifier.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:01:07 EDT371_- Naomi Lynne Pardue wrote:
I have nothing to add on the issue of activities being on different days.
> But I found > myself wondering WHY, with kids so busy these days with numerous > activities, and with so many parents working outside the home, > making transport to Hebrew School a challenge, they do not move > week-day Hebrew school to evenings? [...]
5423 51 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5624] Re: Week-day Hebrew School12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:19:40 EDT563_- Naomi, I suspect the biggest problem you have is getting people to look past decades of tradition. The other problem is the expectations of the teachers, staff and families.
I once asked the principal at my daughters' school why they couldn't have a schedule that would work for all ages. (They had a bizarre set-up where younger students went on two different shifts on T-Th and older students on M-W and that year I had a daughter going on each day.) The answer was that they didn't think the teachers would be willing to come in for an extra two [...]
5475 44 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5625] Re: Week-day Hebrew School12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:20:44 EDT326_- IBLEIWEI said:
>I don't think that weekday activities can ever be easy, on working = >parents.
Not always on stay at home moms, either.
My kids are homeschooled, and then I have to take them by public transit, two hours from home thru bad neighborhoods (I cannot drive due to a medical condition.) [...]
5520 84 45_[SCJ-PARENTING:5626] Re: Gender-based Seating6_Jfer P31_Jennifer@toronto.circadence.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:25:16 EDT266_- Irene wrote: > How do you handle seating arrangments when attending O shuls with a = > school-aged child of the oppostite sex? My son is almost 6, and getting = > kind of old to sit with me in the woman's section. Dad isn't Jewish, so = > doesn't attend. =20 [...]
5605 33 45_[SCJ-PARENTING:5627] Re: Gender-based Seating14_Frank Pantaleo22_moles@rochester.rr.com29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:30:08 EDT558_-
>How do you handle seating arrangments when attending O shuls with a school-aged child of the oppostite >sex? My son is almost 6, and getting kind of old to sit with me in the woman's section.
My son is 8 years old, and he still sits with me. --Cindy S.
============================================================================== This post reflects the author's opinion; the moderators' opinions may differ. Posters seeking medical or halachic information should consult competent authorities in those fields. [...]
5639 52 45_[SCJ-PARENTING:5628] Re: Gender-based Seating12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:40:14 EDT412_- Another thought:
I think the Bar Mitzvah age thing may solve your dilemma.
On Yom Kippur, a woman who brought her kids into shul (we go to a tiny O shul), had one son about 11 and three daughters that were younger.
One of the old guys said to her, "You can let him sit up here with us" and she replied, "He's not Bar Mitzvah age yet" and the old guy said, "Oh, OK, I thought he was." [...]
5692 44 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5629] Re: Week-day Hebrew School18_Naomi Lynne Pardue29_npardue@steel.ucs.indiana.edu29_Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:26:18 EDT332_- Beth Katcher wrote:
> I suspect the same is true in many places. People would rather be home > with their families than teaching Hebrew School. Families would prefer > dinner together rather than shipping kids out at 6pm or whenever -- > couldn't be much later or the kids would get home too late. [...]
5737 45 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5631] Re: A dilemma8_MrBob55816_mrbob558@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 01:57:44 EDT549_- >maybe what I'm looking for is advice from people in my situation...if = >there are any I'm not in that situation and I really don't have any specific advice to give, beyond the fact that you are not unique. I had a good friend going up whose Mom was born Jewish, completely secular and married a non-Jew. The Boy in his early teens along with the Mom were Bal Tshuva's. The non-Jewish father and other siblings didn't become at all religious The Mother and son went to a well known Modern Orthodox Shul where she was more Orthodox than most [...]
5783 42 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5632] Re: Week-day Hebrew School18_Naomi Lynne Pardue29_npardue@steel.ucs.indiana.edu29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:20:57 EDT417_- Lynne Fitzsimmons wrote: > Naomi Pardue asks about week-day Hebrew School, vs evening...
> Our synagogue couldn't have a Wednesday evening Hebrew school - that is > Religious High School (7th grade and up) night, and the building is > full. We've got MW and TTh afternoon Hebrew school, and the building > gets a short break on Wednesdays before the High School kids arrive. [...]
5826 41 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5633] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:34:22 EDT578_-
"> > Tefillin are really, REALLY costly! So are tallitot. So are many other > Jewish > religious articles, such as the mezuzah (by this I mean the scroll that goes > inside, NOT the case.) Although cases are also expensive in many areas.
Have you looked on ebay? They have gorgeous Judaica, and some not so gorgeous. Some extremely pricey, other stuff very inexpensive. I've seen t'efillin a couple of times, not cheap, but not as expensive as new. I've bought two bar mitzvah gifts, antique yadim in sterling silver, for a fraction of the cost of new. If [...]
5868 62 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5634] Re: Simchat Torah10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:37:07 EDT634_-
wrote in message news:Springmail.105.972315493.0.60366300@springmail.com... > I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat Torah.
We belong to a traditional shul. On Simchat Torah our shul is usually overflowing with people. We move all the chairs out of the way, so we have a nice big dance floor. We also dance outside in the parking lot and around the sukkah. The Rabbi calls out special participants for each of the hakafot. For example, there's the Kohen and Levi for the first Hakafot (we have such a small shul, we have to combine to hold all the torot we [...]
5931 96 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5635] Re: A dilemma14_Frank Pantaleo22_moles@rochester.rr.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:03:51 EDT673_- **************************************** MODERATOR'S NOTE: MODERATOR'S NOTE: This message is being permitted as a one-time follow-up correction to a previous post which asserted that 25% of Orthodox Jews intermarry -- a statistic which cannot be true unless we extend the definition of "Orthodox" far beyond the point where it carries any meaning. HOWEVER...since SCJP is not the place to defend or define the principles of any one movement, follow-up posts to this one will *only* be permitted if they steer the conversation in the direction of parenting-related topics (e.g. how intermarried baalei teshuvah are raising their kids, bringing Jewish ritual into the [...]
6028 53 45_[SCJ-PARENTING:5636] Re: Gender-based Seating12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:16:13 EDT438_- Jennifer said:
>Chabad, if they have a presence nearby, often offer more >family-friendly alternatives to the "kaddish club" minyanim found in many >Orthodox shuls.
I have to agree. I attended services at a Chabad shul not far from me a few times, and it was so sweet to see the tiny little boys with their tzitzit flying and little yarmulkes, crawling around the bimah, while their Rabbi daddy was up there. [...]
6082 41 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5637] Hebrew School13_Robin Tzucker16_rjtzuckr@gte.net29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:16:32 EDT441_- Re: afternoon Hebrew School...
Our temple has several choices. All students (preschool through sixth grade) attend on Sunday mornings for two hours. Students in third-sixth grade either attend a weekday Hebrew class or take Hebrew for two hours either before their Sunday School class or after it. My two younger children, therefore, have Hebrew on Sundays from 8:30-10:30, recess from10:30-11:00, and Sunday School from 11-1. [...]
6124 45 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5638] Re: Week-day Hebrew School11_Lisa Hertel13_lisa@thor.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:00:16 EDT516_- Naomi Lynne Pardue wrote: > > Shaina is in third grade this year. > (Why) they do not move week-day Hebrew > school to evenings? > Evenings, > they said, are family time for most families, and they wouldn't want > to lose it to Hebrew school. > > Hebrew school (as opposed to day school), how would you feel about > having it in the evening? > Naomi=20 > I can see a problem right away: sleep. If Hebrew School is two hours (as it was in my day), and your avaerage 9-year-old's bedtime is about 9pm (which is [...]
6170 48 37_[SCJ-PARENTING:5639] CTTD (26 months)19_Alexandra J Schmidt26_aschmidt@athena.crd.ge.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:01:44 EDT392_-
CTTD #1: I just returned to work after Josiah's birth. This morning, as I was ready to leave the house (I leave first and my husband takes the little ones to day care), Gidi looked at me all dressed up for work and said, "Ima, take Gidi to synagogue?"
Clearly, he has internalized my two modes: "look nice" = we're going to shul, and "schlumper mode" = all other times. [...]
6219 41 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5640] Re: Simchat Torah11_David Ellis23_dje@mkitso.ultranet.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:29:17 EDT491_- benjys_mom@mindspring.com wrote:
>I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat Torah.
We do something very interesting in our (Conservative) congregation.
All the adults (about 200-300) gather in a large circle in the social hall, with the children in the middle. A Torah scroll is unrolled around the circle, text facing the children, with all the adults holding onto the top of the parchment. The Rabbi then gives a grand tour, column by column.
6261 53 45_[SCJ-PARENTING:5641] Re: Gender-based Seating10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:31:12 EDT559_-
"Irene Bleiweiss" wrote in message news:s9f582bb.013@fcc.gov... This is for single or intermarried Jewish parents out there.
This is something I asked a few years back! :-) Like minds and all that. We attend a 'traditional' shul, but we often also attend a modern O shul with a mechitza that runs right down the middle of the room. I have 8 YO B/G twins, and my son doesn't every come to sit with me, or even to say 'hi". He hasn't since he was about 5. What I do is to have an assigned 'guy' who pays attention to my [...]
6315 48 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5642] Re: Week-day Hebrew School10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 11:31:48 EDT499_- > So, just out of curiousity, for those of you whose kids go to afternoon > Hebrew school (as opposed to day school), how would you feel about > having it in the evening? Would it simplify your life? Make things more > complicated? Take away valuable family time? Those of you who have full > time jobs, how do you get your kids to Hebrew school? (I only work part > time, so it isn't a problem for me, but I can't see how I could work full > time even if I wanted to, due to this conflict.) [...]
6364 68 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5643] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish14_Elisabeth Riba19_lis@osmond-riba.org29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:03:54 EDT418_- Jewish Momma wrote: > Tefillin are really, REALLY costly! So are tallitot. So are many other > Jewish > religious articles,=20
Another alternative for tallitot is to make them yourself. The actual expense may vary depending on how one does it, but the added kavanah of having something made by onesself or one's loved ones really imbues the object with a wonderful feeling. [...]
6433 36 45_[SCJ-PARENTING:5644] Re: Gender-based Seating8_MrBob55816_mrbob558@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:08:58 EDT531_- >his is for single or intermarried Jewish parents out there. > >How do you handle seating arrangments when attending O shuls with a = >school-aged child of the oppostite
Besides the excellent suggestions given to you, may I suggest talking with 1-The Youth Leader if there is one or 2- The Rabbi. Usually there is someone who will be able to, and be perfectly willing to keep an eye on your child. A very enjoyable inter-generational friendship may materalize. Bob You can agree with me, or you can be wrong(g) Bob F [...]
6470 67 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5645] Re: Simchat Torah19_Alexandra J Schmidt26_aschmidt@athena.crd.ge.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 12:21:49 EDT426_-
Actually, Simchat Torah morning services worked better for me this year than did Leil Simchat Torah festivities. What I really love is the aliyah for "kol ha-ne'arim" (all of the young ones). My husband and three other tall guys hold the corners of a tallit like a=20 canopy over all the children who are called up to make the blessing (there are always some parents up there too with very young children). =20 [...]
6538 35 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5646] Re: Simchat Torah12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:20:00 EDT510_- > Does anyone attend a shul where nonstandard/joke > tunes are used for the service--if so, what kinds of things?
It varies each year just what the cantor/rabbi will do to spice up musaf. I particularly enjoyed this year: the cantor picked melodies that "define" various holidays throughout the year and used them throughout the musaf amidah. He started with Ma O'tzur and we were thinking it was early for Hanukkah. When he went on to Purim we figured out it was going to be the year in review. [...]
6574 61 47_[SCJ-PARENTING:5647] Re: Week-day Hebrew School10_Serge Adam19_serge.adam@home.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:22:02 EDT535_- On 25 Oct 2000 08:27:10 -0700, "animzmirot" wrote:
>> So, just out of curiousity, for those of you whose kids go to afternoon >> Hebrew school (as opposed to day school), how would you feel about >> having it in the evening? Would it simplify your life? Make things = more >> complicated? Take away valuable family time? Those of you who have = full >> time jobs, how do you get your kids to Hebrew school? (I only work = part >> time, so it isn't a problem for me, but I can't see how I could work [...]
6636 55 32_[SCJ-PARENTING:5648] Shabbos Goy15_Irene Bleiweiss16_IBLEIWEI@fcc.gov29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 13:49:12 EDT368_- Someone on the list recently joked about how their family would lose their = Shabbos goy if their husband converted. This touches on a Jewish = parenting issue for me.
I've taught my kids that they are not allowed to ask (or even hint) to = their non-Jewish Dad to do anything for their benefit that they are not = permitted themselves to do on Shabbos. [...]
6692 54 36_[SCJ-PARENTING:5649] Re: Shabbos Goy14_Frank Pantaleo22_moles@rochester.rr.com29_Wed, 25 Oct 2000 15:36:53 EDT405_-
Irene Bleiweiss wrote in message ... Someone on the list recently joked about how their family would lose their Shabbos goy if their husband converted. This touches on a Jewish parenting issue for me.
I've taught my kids that they are not allowed to ask (or even hint) to their non-Jewish Dad to do anything for their benefit that they are not permitted themselves to do on Shabbos. [...]
6747 43 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5650] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish14_Aaron Kuperman12_akup@loc.gov29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 08:30:36 EDT605_- Compare the cost of yeshivas to private universities. Compare housing costs in most frum neighborhoods to the really ritzy places that don't aren'tall that frum (e.g. Flatbush vs. Upper East Side). Deduct the cost of treatments for drug abuse (common among non-Jews) and sexually transmitted diseased. Compare the cost of learning in a Beis Midrash to any otehr type of activities for the "night out with the boys". Deduct the cost of television, movies, etc. (Uncle Moishey is a lto cheaper than Carneige Hall). Deduct the cost of after-school child care we don't need since we have a long school [...]
6791 75 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5651] Re: A dilemma15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:19:19 EDT756_- In article <4RiJ5.79124$JS3.12023815@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>, "Frank Pantaleo" wrote:
>**************************************** >MODERATOR'S NOTE: >MODERATOR'S NOTE: >This message is being permitted as a one-time follow-up correction to a >previous post which asserted that 25% of Orthodox Jews intermarry -- a >statistic which cannot be true unless we extend the definition of "Orthodox" >far beyond the point where it carries any meaning. >HOWEVER...since SCJP is not the place to defend or define the principles of >any one movement, follow-up posts to this one will *only* be permitted if >they steer the conversation in the direction of parenting-related topics >(e.g. how intermarried baalei teshuvah are raising [...]
6867 87 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5652] Re: A dilemma14_Betsy Schwartz16_betsys@shore.net29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 10:37:33 EDT622_- yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM (Jewish Momma) writes: > There seem to be more and more of us, what with the intermarriage rate =
I have also heard that the children of intermarried families, are *more* likely to be raised "actively" Jewish than the children of non-intermarried families (this would be for Reform/Unaffiliated/etc families, not Orthodox of course). I think this is true. I was raised in a third-generation non-observant family. We lit Channukah candles a few years when I was growing up, not every year, and we went' to a "secular" sunday school for two years. We never heard of Shabbat, or Yom [...]
6955 63 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5653] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:04:35 EDT583_- In article , "animzmirot" wrote:
>"> >> Tefillin are really, REALLY costly! So are tallitot. So >are many other >> Jewish >> religious articles, such as the mezuzah (by this I mean >the scroll that goes >> inside, NOT the case.) Although cases are also expensive >in many areas. > >Have you looked on ebay? They have gorgeous Judaica, and >some not so gorgeous. Some extremely pricey, other stuff >very inexpensive. I've seen t'efillin a couple of times, not >cheap, but not as expensive as new. [...]
7019 64 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5654] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:10:57 EDT342_- In article <39F598F0.4DB7657C@thor.com>, Lisa Hertel wrote:
>Jewish Momma wrote: >> >> And no, I don't mean antisemitism. I'm talking about how costly many > >Jewish >> religious objects are! >> > >> Nor does this touch upon the high cost of kosher food esp. kosher meat, >> or private day schools and yeshivos. [...]
7084 76 36_[SCJ-PARENTING:5655] Re: Shabbos Goy15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:13:30 EDT637_- In article , "Frank Pantaleo" wrote:
>Irene Bleiweiss wrote in message ... >Someone on the list recently joked about how their family would lose their >Shabbos goy if their husband converted. This touches on a Jewish parenting >issue for me. > >I've taught my kids that they are not allowed to ask (or even hint) to their >non-Jewish Dad to do anything for their benefit that they are not permitted >themselves to do on Shabbos. > >I have consulted our local Rosh Yeshivah (head of the Yeshiva) about this, >and he has advised me to do exactly as you [...]
7161 39 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5657] Re: A dilemma12_Seth Rogovoy21_rogovoy@berkshire.net29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:13:54 EDT310_- > I have also heard that the children of intermarried families, are *more* > likely to be raised "actively" Jewish than the children of > non-intermarried > families (this would be for Reform/Unaffiliated/etc families, not Orthodox > of course). I think this is true. I was raised in a third-generation [...]
7201 71 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5658] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish14_Frank Pantaleo22_moles@rochester.rr.com29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:26:48 EDT446_-
Fred Rosenblatt wrote in message ... >In article , >"animzmirot" wrote: > >>"> >>> Tefillin are really, REALLY costly! So are tallitot. So >>are many other >>> Jewish >>> religious articles, such as the mezuzah (by this I mean >>the scroll that goes >>> inside, NOT the case.) Although cases are also expensive >>in many areas. >> >>Have you looked on ebay? [...]
7273 63 38_[SCJ-PARENTING:5659] Re: Simchat Torah15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:29:36 EDT429_- In article , benjys_mom@mindspring.com wrote:
>I am curious as to how different congregations celebrated Simchat Torah. > >At our modern Orthodox congregation, there is a lot of singing and dancing, >which always spills out into the streets.
We used to march 6 blocks from our shul to another one after evening hakafot, but now we pretty much stay inside. [...]
7337 49 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5660] Re: A dilemma12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:37:13 EDT364_- rogovoy said:
>for what it's worth, both my sister and I married non-Jews, and both of us >are raising families >where the level of observance and identification as Jews is much greater >than it was for us growing up.
FWIW, my own take is that those raised in 100% fully Jewish homes often (but not always) can take their Judaism for granted. [...]
7387 47 50_[SCJ-PARENTING:5661] Re: SCJ-PARENTING digest 130215_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Thu, 26 Oct 2000 16:41:03 EDT621_- In article <972336606scjp-submit@shamash.org>, "shalom" wrote:
>I've just been reading through the responses to this list, and one thing >comes through very strongly; the commitment that all of us have to doing the >very best we can to promote Judaism, whatever form that may take, in our >families. Its not easy being more observant in a largely non observant >group; in the same way, its not easy being observant in a different way from >the norm or non observant when others may judge this as being "less Jewish". >However, we owe our children an honest presentation of the level of [...]
7435 45 34_[SCJ-PARENTING:5663] Re: A dilemma12_Seth Rogovoy21_rogovoy@berkshire.net29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:40:14 EDT512_- > >for what it's worth, both my sister and I married non-Jews, and > both of us > >are raising families > >where the level of observance and identification as Jews is much greater > >than it was for us growing up. > > FWIW, my own take is that those raised in 100% fully Jewish homes > often (but > not always) can take their Judaism for granted. > > In an interfaith marriage where the Jewish partner is Jewishly > conscious, it > takes more work to raise and keep the kids Jewish, and so many times not [...]
7481 76 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5664] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish11_Leah Adezio16_sladezio@nac.net29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:29:45 EDT656_-
Aaron Kuperman wrote in message <8t8dcv$2dee$2@rs7.loc.gov>... >Compare the cost of yeshivas to private universities. Compare housing >costs in most frum neighborhoods to the really ritzy places that don't >aren'tall that frum (e.g. Flatbush vs. Upper East Side). Deduct the cost >of treatments for drug abuse (common among non-Jews) and sexually >transmitted diseased. Compare the cost of learning in a Beis Midrash to >any otehr type of activities for the "night out with the boys". Deduct the >cost of television, movies, etc. (Uncle Moishey is a lto cheaper than >Carneige Hall). Deduct the cost of after-school child care we don't need [...]
7558 97 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5665] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:29:56 EDT702_- In article <39f8713c_1@nntp2.nac.net>, "Leah Adezio" wrote:
>Aaron Kuperman wrote in message <8t8dcv$2dee$2@rs7.loc.gov>... >>Compare the cost of yeshivas to private universities. Compare housing >>costs in most frum neighborhoods to the really ritzy places that don't >>aren'tall that frum (e.g. Flatbush vs. Upper East Side). Deduct the cost >>of treatments for drug abuse (common among non-Jews) and sexually >>transmitted diseased. Compare the cost of learning in a Beis Midrash to >>any otehr type of activities for the "night out with the boys". Deduct the >>cost of television, movies, etc. (Uncle Moishey is a lto cheaper than >>Carneige Hall). Deduct the cost [...]
7656 56 35_[SCJ-PARENTING:5666] Winter lights?14_Hadass Eviatar20_eviatar@superhwy.net29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:11:49 EDT290_- Before I ask my question, let me preface it by saying that winters here in Winnipeg are dark, cold and loooong. There is generally snow on the ground from November till May. The days, especially in December, are very short - we leave the house in darkness and come home in darkness. [...]
7713 74 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5667] Re: Winter lights?15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:30:53 EDT647_- In article <39F9C397.8B53B2C7@superhwy.net>, Hadass Eviatar wrote:
>Before I ask my question, let me preface it by saying that winters here >in Winnipeg are dark, cold and loooong. There is generally snow on the >ground from November till May. The days, especially in December, are >very short - we leave the house in darkness and come home in darkness. > >For this reason, lights are a big deal here. People go completely >overboard, putting up thousands of bulbs, making elaborate displays >complete with Santa, reindeer, you get the picture. There are also lots >of generic icicles, coloured lights, etc. > [...]
7788 43 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5668] Re: Winter lights?12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:31:44 EDT284_- eviatar said:
>So, I'd like to solicit some opinions here. How do people feel about >putting up lights in the winter, if there is no Xmas theme involved? Is >it still too Xmassy, and to be avoided by Jews?
Doesn't matter to me what xians do, I do what I like to. [...]
7832 43 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5669] Re: Winter lights?8_VeraAloe16_veraaloe@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:01:34 EDT436_- We left our dark and cold winters in Pennsylvania (and now live in Arizona), but I do remember how they can feel.
I'm guessing the neighbors' lights are only up around Christmas (vs. November through May) which probably makes them Christmas lights:) This reminds of of people who say a Christmas Tree isn't religious, it's seasonal. I laugh and wonder why is it called a Christmas Tree, and why is it up for that holiday? [...]
7876 58 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5670] Re: Winter lights?4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:12:18 EDT574_-
Jewish Momma wrote in message news:20001027151648.23300.00003422@ng-ch1.aol.com... > eviatar said: > > >So, I'd like to solicit some opinions here. How do people feel about > >putting up lights in the winter, if there is no Xmas theme involved? Is > >it still too Xmassy, and to be avoided by Jews? > > Doesn't matter to me what xians do, I do what I like to. > > We have been putting up blue and white lights in the window for several years > now. Along with Chanukah decorations. > > We put them up a week before Chanukah, and [...]
7935 49 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5671] Re: Winter lights?4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:09:50 EDT258_- I decorate for Hanukah. I string up blue and white lights. I do it because I like the holiday and I enjoy making my home look nice. I also like the lights at night. I don't really care if lights are too Xmasy -- Hannukah is the Festival of Lights! :) [...]
7985 76 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5672] Re: Winter lights?14_Hadass Eviatar20_eviatar@superhwy.net29_Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:11:10 EDT582_- VeraAloe wrote: > I'm guessing the neighbors' lights are only up around Christmas (vs. November > through May) which probably makes them Christmas lights:)
Wrong, actually. This is Winnipeg - they are putting them up *now* (which is why Rafi has started asking for them), and they will stay up until Easter or later. In fact, some people have them attached to the house all year round, but only start turning them on when it starts getting dark early (such as now, and especially starting next week). Admittedly, the Santas and so on will go into full swing closer to [...]
8062 138 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5673] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish11_Leah Adezio16_sladezio@nac.net29_Sat, 28 Oct 2000 12:13:00 EDT704_-
Fred Rosenblatt wrote in message ... >In article <39f8713c_1@nntp2.nac.net>, "Leah Adezio" wrote: > >>Aaron Kuperman wrote in message <8t8dcv$2dee$2@rs7.loc.gov>... >>>Compare the cost of yeshivas to private universities. Compare housing >>>costs in most frum neighborhoods to the really ritzy places that don't >>>aren'tall that frum (e.g. Flatbush vs. Upper East Side). Deduct the cost >>>of treatments for drug abuse (common among non-Jews) and sexually >>>transmitted diseased. Compare the cost of learning in a Beis Midrash to >>>any otehr type of activities for the "night out with the boys". Deduct the >>>cost of television, movies, etc. (Uncle Moishey is a lto [...]
8201 87 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5674] Re: Winter lights?10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Sat, 28 Oct 2000 18:41:07 EDT402_-
"Hadass Eviatar" wrote in message news:39F9C397.8B53B2C7@superhwy.net... > Before I ask my question, let me preface it by saying that winters here > in Winnipeg are dark, cold and loooong. There is generally snow on the > ground from November till May. The days, especially in December, are > very short - we leave the house in darkness and come home in darkness. [...]
8289 183 73_[SCJ-PARENTING:5675] Reflections on intermarriage - long (Was: A Dilemma)5_Karla16_karla@ntcorp.com29_Sun, 29 Oct 2000 09:01:17 EST415_- (Stay with me here, I'm going to share some family stories to show you how these impact how children are raised and what they grow to believe.)
Jewish Momma wrote:
> maybe what I'm looking for is advice from people in my situation...if = > there are > any. People who were born Jewish, got away from it, made some mistakes, = > and are > now trying to do the best they can with what they have. [...]
8473 65 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5676] Re: Winter lights?5_chelp21_chelp@my-dejanews.com29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:06:14 EST596_- In article <39F9EB8E.C074273A@superhwy.net>, Hadass Eviatar wrote:
> VeraAloe wrote: > > I'm guessing the neighbors' lights are only up around Christmas (vs. > November > > through May) which probably makes them Christmas lights:) >=20 > Wrong, actually. This is Winnipeg - they are putting them up *now* > (which is why Rafi has started asking for them), and they will stay up > until Easter or later. In fact, some people have them attached to the > house all year round, but only start turning them on when it starts > getting dark early (such as now, and [...]
8539 41 49_[SCJ-PARENTING:5677] Re: The Cost of Being Jewish12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:42:05 EST308_- moles wrote:
>So, now it will cost us a fortune to get a kosher set >of tefillin for our son, but being that we anticipate he will be donning >them every morning for the rest of his life (after Bar Mitzvah), I believe >it will be worth it.
*Almost* every morning,.Not on Shabbos, right? [...]
8581 61 73_[SCJ-PARENTING:5678] What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?19_Alexandra J Schmidt28_aschmidt@gematria.crd.ge.com29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:59:24 EST272_-
Jewish Momma wrote:
> maybe what I'm looking for is advice from people in my situation...if = > there are > any. People who were born Jewish, got away from it, made some mistakes, = > and are > now trying to do the best they can with what they have. [...]
8643 50 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5679] Re: Reflections on intermarriage - long (Was: A Dilemma)15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:43:20 EST656_- [Mod: In anticipation of responses, please remember to focus on parenting = issues and to keep the debate respectful. Off-charter submissions will be = returned].
In article <39FC2C35.FE7F752D@ntcorp.com>, Karla wrote:
>When I converted to Judaism, the priest asked my father point >blank if he planned to disown me and cut me off like a diseased limb.=20 >My father was shocked and horrified at the suggestion. "This is my >daughter, she's changing religions, not committing murder!" The priest >then asked why my father was getting his shorts in such a twist then.=20 >They don't understand my decisions, nor do I [...]
8694 77 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5680] Re: What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:47:19 EST645_- In article <200010301542.KAA06172@gematria.crd.ge.com>, Alexandra J Schmidt wrote:
>Jewish Momma wrote: > >> maybe what I'm looking for is advice from people in my situation...if = =3D >> there are >> any. People who were born Jewish, got away from it, made some mistakes, = =3D >> and are >> now trying to do the best they can with what they have. > >Returning to an earlier poster's thread--there's been some discussion of >intermarriage as a "mistake" when the Jewish partner later becomes >a baal teshuvah (returnee to the faith). While I won't claim that >intermarriage is desirable, the danger [...]
8772 73 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5681] Re: Winter lights?15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:20:26 EST647_- In article <39F9EB8E.C074273A@superhwy.net>, Hadass Eviatar wrote:
>VeraAloe wrote: >> I'm guessing the neighbors' lights are only up around Christmas (vs. >November >> through May) which probably makes them Christmas lights:) > >Wrong, actually. This is Winnipeg - they are putting them up *now* >(which is why Rafi has started asking for them), and they will stay up >until Easter or later. In fact, some people have them attached to the >house all year round, but only start turning them on when it starts >getting dark early (such as now, and especially starting next week). >Admittedly, the Santas and so [...]
8846 79 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5682] Re: What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:50:29 EST597_- aschmidt said:
>Returning to an earlier poster's thread--there's been some discussion of >intermarriage as a "mistake" when the Jewish partner later becomes >a baal teshuvah (returnee to the faith). While I won't claim that >intermarriage is desirable, the danger that looms in referring to it >as a "mistake" in the hearing of the children it produced is in the follow-on >question: "If my parents' marriage is a mistake, am I a mistake too?" > >Or more subtly, "Mom, if you had to do it all over again, would you have >married Dad?" (with the implication that the child would then [...]
8926 44 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5683] Re: Winter lights?14_Betsy Schwartz16_betsys@shore.net29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:09:52 EST591_-
I too don't participate in the secularized accompaniments of most Christian holidays (although we do Valentine's day and Halloween), and I've fought with my kid's daycare about this, but it seems to me that the urge to push back the darkness is a basic human instinct that pre-dates *all* holidays. Here in New England lights are confined to the weeks before and after Christmas, so we don't participate, but if we lived somewhere that was lit from autumn to spring, that would be different. I hear that lighting houses for the winter is very common in places near the arctic [...]
8971 71 40_[SCJ-PARENTING:5684] Winter/X-mas lights12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:10:01 EST312_- Sorry for losing the original thread; this post got held up while undergoing moderation -- i.e., adding the parental content to what is to me essentially a theoretical religious question.
Hadass asked: > How do people feel about putting up lights in the winter, if there is no Xmas theme involved? [...]
9043 63 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5685] Re: Reflections on intermarriage - long (Was: A Dilemma)12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:10:06 EST340_- fredr5 said:
>I would merely consider them to have made themselves irrelevant, a dead >end on the Jewish path into the future.
It doesn't have to be. It is hard to raise a Jewish child while intermarried. But it is also just as hard to raise a child as a religious Jew when one JEWISH parent is heavily anti-religious. [...]
9107 42 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5686] Re: What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?14_Frank Pantaleo22_moles@rochester.rr.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 02:41:44 EST571_-
Fred Rosenblatt wrote in message ... > But the fact remains that >in traditional Judaism it is the father's duty to teach mitzvahs and=20 >Jewish observance to his children, either directly or by example.
I am not disputing what you are saying, but would like to add to it: There are situations where a father may be Jewish but lacks the knowlege to teach the mitzvos. In such a case, the father fulfills his duty by providing his children the means/opportunity to learn what they need to know (such as by hiring a tutor or sending them to a Jewish [...]
9150 88 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5687] Re: What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:57:45 EST334_- fredr5 said:
>Can one=20 >really make the radical changes in one's life and lifestyle required of >a true baal teshuvah, and not experience radical changes in ones criteria >for choosing a life partner?
In our situation it is actually very easy to be even a somewhat O Jew while still being married to a gentile. [...]
9239 63 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5688] Re: Reflections on intermarriage - long (Was: A Dilemma)10_animzmirot19_animzmirot@home.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 08:54:09 EST417_- > > Well.....he ended up marryingt eh girl his momma wanted him to marry, and guess > what? She's infertile. I found out when I ran into him one day while out > shopping.
This is an outrageous statement. Are you saying that this woman is infertile because she is a secular Jew? Are you implying that secular Jews are less able to have babies because HaShem looks down on them? What is this implication? [...]
9303 91 44_[SCJ-PARENTING:5689] Re: Winter/X-mas lights12_Brown Family19_lbrown2@bigpond.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:00:16 EST584_- On 30 Oct 2000 17:05:52 -0800, Beth Katcher wrote:
>Sorry for losing the original thread; this post got held up while >undergoing moderation -- i.e., adding the parental content to what is to >me essentially a theoretical religious question.=20 > >Hadass asked: >> How do people feel about putting up lights in the winter, if there is = no Xmas theme involved?=20 > >The problem, as I see it, is that in order to parent consistently and >well we have to know where we stand on issues so that we can present our >viewpoint clearly to our children. If [...]
9395 71 53_[SCJ-PARENTING:5690] Re: Reflections on intermarriage19_Alexandra J Schmidt28_aschmidt@gematria.crd.ge.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:18:14 EST418_-
Fred writes:
> I would merely consider them to have made themselves irrelevant, a dead > end on the Jewish path into the future.
I can't agree that the situation's as cut-and-dried as that. A Jewish daughter's children are Jewish, no question about it. I know Jewish homes that produced non-Jewish children and non-Jewish homes that produced Jewish teenagers who eventually became haredi. [...]
9467 56 35_[SCJ-PARENTING:5691] seasonal stuff26_Schmidt, Alexandra J (CRD)28_Alexandra.Schmidt@crd.ge.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:23:29 EST318_- Les Brown asks:
> Just one thing, though - Maoz Tsur. Why does this song have such a > Xmassy sound to it?
Because the tune you're probably thinking of is German, and in a major key. Most Jewish music is in a minor key (D, specifically, IIRC).
> Can anyone suggest a more "heimische" tune? [...]
9524 52 53_[SCJ-PARENTING:5692] Re: Reflections on intermarriage12_Beth Katcher17_b.katcher@rcn.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:03:57 EST569_- First, Marjorie, I can see how you could get upset over Chana's post. But I think the intent was not to suggest that this woman was being "punished" in any way, but rather to point out the irony that her boyfriend's mother rejected her as suitable because as the daughter of a convert she didn't think that her grandchildren would be considered Jewish. So instead the daughter of a convert becomes a BT and far more Jewish than this family, while the woman never becomes a grandmother because the daughter-in-law she approves of is incapable of having children. [...]
9577 49 53_[SCJ-PARENTING:5693] Re: Reflections on intermarriage12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:56:09 EST566_- Thanks, Alexandra. I just think too many Jews view the simple marriage of = their child to another Jew as a panacea to all ills.
It is important not only to marry another Jew, but to marry another Jew = *who is religiously along the same lines as yourself*.
A marriage to a non-religious and esp. an anti-religious Jew is just as = bad if not worse than marriage to a gentile. Sometimes worse, since many gentiles = have no prejudice against things Jewish, whereas a Jew who grew up in a dynfunctional Jewish home may be very prejudiced against [...]
9627 50 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5695] Re: What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:39:03 EST648_- In article , "Frank Pantaleo" wrote:
>Fred Rosenblatt wrote in message ... >> But the fact remains that >>in traditional Judaism it is the father's duty to teach mitzvahs and=20 >>Jewish observance to his children, either directly or by example. > >I am not disputing what you are saying, but would like to add to it: There >are situations where a father may be Jewish but lacks the knowlege to teach >the mitzvos. In such a case, the father fulfills his duty by providing his >children the means/opportunity to learn what they need to know (such as by >hiring [...]
9678 50 53_[SCJ-PARENTING:5696] Re: Reflections on Intermarriage14_Marcy Lawrence13_marcy@ucs.net29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:39:51 EST381_- Well.....he ended up marryingt eh girl his momma wanted him to marry, and guess > what? She's infertile. I found out when I ran into him one day while out > shopping.
Chana,
Those are very strong words and I sincerely hope you were not implying that this man and his wife were being punished with infertility because of his mother's beliefs. That is horrible! [...]
9729 66 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5697] Re: Reflections on intermarriage - long (Was: A Dilemma)15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:41:04 EST636_- In article <20001030153145.05213.00000386@ng-fi1.aol.com>, yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM (Jewish Momma) wrote:
>fredr5 said: > >>I would merely consider them to have made themselves irrelevant, a dead >>end on the Jewish path into the future. > >It doesn't have to be. It is hard to raise a Jewish child while intermarried. >But it is also just as hard to raise a child as a religious Jew when one JEWISH >parent is heavily anti-religious. > >I know people in THAT situation, too. Sometimes, when those two situations are >compared (and both situations happen quite a bit), it is actually easier to >raise a Jewish child in [...]
9796 107 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5698] Re: Reflections on intermarriage - long (Was: A Dilemma)4_DRUM17_evad@voicenet.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:42:04 EST548_-
animzmirot wrote in message news:G5rL5.375887$i5.6111888@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com... > > > > Well.....he ended up marryingt eh girl his momma wanted > him to marry, and guess > > what? She's infertile. I found out when I ran into him one > day while out > > shopping. > > This is an outrageous statement. Are you saying that this > woman is infertile because she is a secular Jew? Are you > implying that secular Jews are less able to have babies > because HaShem looks down on them? What is this implication? [...]
9904 45 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5699] Re: Winter lights?19_Alexandra J Schmidt28_aschmidt@gematria.crd.ge.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 13:54:53 EST424_-
Dear Hadass--
I stopped at my favorite health-food store over noon and saw some marvelous holiday light strings. One had lights shaped like=20 very detailed sunflowers, and another had golden suns and crescent=20 moons with faces. If I were inclined to hang light strings, these are the ones I'd choose--they're distinctive, cheerful, and like nothing I've seen decorating Christmas-celebrating homes. [...]
9950 43 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5700] Re: Winter lights?18_Naomi Lynne Pardue29_npardue@steel.ucs.indiana.edu29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 15:37:50 EST379_- Hadass Eviatar wrote:
> So, I'd like to solicit some opinions here. How do people feel about > putting up lights in the winter, if there is no Xmas theme involved? Is > it still too Xmassy, and to be avoided by Jews? I wouldn't be > comfortable putting up any overtly Jewish symbols, even though we don't > get a lot of antisemitism here ... [...]
9994 99 53_[SCJ-PARENTING:5701] Re: Reflections on intermarriage13_Adelle Stavis28_ppcuthbertsonqq@mediaone.net29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 17:29:23 EST588_-
"Beth Katcher" wrote in message news:39FED7CE.5F9C981F@rcn.com... > First, Marjorie, I can see how you could get upset over Chana's post. > But I think the intent was not to suggest that this woman was being > "punished" in any way, but rather to point out the irony that her > boyfriend's mother rejected her as suitable because as the daughter of a > convert she didn't think that her grandchildren would be considered > Jewish. So instead the daughter of a convert becomes a BT and far more > Jewish than this family, while the woman never becomes a [...]
10094 56 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5702] Re: What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?15_Fred Rosenblatt15_fredr5@juno.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:04:17 EST609_- In article <20001030120648.04397.00000771@ng-md1.aol.com>, yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM (Jewish Momma) wrote:
>I understand your POV. However since my kids are attending an Otrthodox Hebrew >school, they WILL be told that intermarriage is dead wrong. > >How am I to tell them, "Yes, I am glad I married your Daddy" and then in >another breath tell them, "Intermarriage is wrong"? If anything looks >hypocritical, that does. > >According to Jewish law, it IS a mistake for a Jew to marry a nonJew. There is >no way around that. I'm not going to lie to myself or to my kids. > >What I do tell them [...]
10151 36 53_[SCJ-PARENTING:5703] Re: Reflections on intermarriage14_Elisabeth Riba19_lis@osmond-riba.org29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 20:13:44 EST332_- I just want to point out that there is an *EXCELLENT* book on the market titled "Two Jews Can Still Be a Mixed Marriage" by Azriela Jaffe.
I highly recommend it; the basic point being to talk everything out with your partner beforehand if possible, and never assume, even when you think you two share the same core beliefs.
10188 57 39_[SCJ-PARENTING:5704] Re: Winter lights?14_Hadass Eviatar17_heviatar@home.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:41:07 EST318_- Fred Rosenblatt wrote: > > If the lights will be on from now until the spring (is your mention of > Easter more significant than that?) then I don't see how they would > qualify as Xmas lights at all.
I mentioned Easter because that is when people have a couple of days off and take the lights down 8-). [...]
10246 93 77_[SCJ-PARENTING:5705] Re: What to tell kids of intermarriage when you're a BT?14_Frank Pantaleo22_moles@rochester.rr.com29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:41:40 EST485_-
> >This situation is hypothetical for me, so I have no direct experience to >contribute, but a scenario in which one parent regards the marriage as a >mistake, and lets the child know it, would concern me.
Speaking as one of the intermarried BTs...When we call intermarriage a "mistake", we are not expressing our personal feelings about our own individual marriages/spouses. Jewish law forbids intermarriage. The "mistake" is that we have violated a Jewish law. [...]
10340 76 53_[SCJ-PARENTING:5706] Re: Reflections on Intermarriage12_Jewish Momma27_yiddishemameh@aol.comNOSPAM29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:42:52 EST596_- marcy said:
>Chana, > >Those are very strong words and I sincerely hope you were not implying that >this man and his wife were being punished with infertility because of his >mother's beliefs. That is horrible! > >I went through 7 very heartbreaking years of infertility which included 4 >miscarriages, 1 ectopic pregnancy, 1 failed adoption and too many tears >before we adopted our precious son who is now 7. I spent many, many days >wondering if I was being "punished" because I wasn't religious. I kept >kosher, had all my mezuzah's checked and replaced, went to the mikvah for [...]
10417 65 80_[SCJ-PARENTING:5707] Children intermarrying was Re: Reflections on Intermarriage14_Betsy Schwartz16_betsys@shore.net29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:42:55 EST294_- To pick up a piece of this thread:
I can't expect life to be simpler for my daughter than it was for me. She'll meet people from all over the world, with every religion. Even children who grow up within the most strictly Orthodox communities will be exposed to the outside world. [...]
10483 40 61_[SCJ-PARENTING:5708] Maoz Tsur (was: Re: Winter/X-mas lights)14_Hadass Eviatar20_eviatar@superhwy.net29_Tue, 31 Oct 2000 21:46:52 EST403_- Brown Family wrote: > > Just one thing, though - Maoz Tsur. Why does this song have such a > Xmassy sound to it? Can anyone suggest a more "heimische" tune?
You have a good ear. It is based on a Lutheran chorale. There are Sephardic tunes as well, which aren't Xmassy at all. Personally I have more of a problem with the *words* of Maoz Tsur, which refer to the slaughter of the enemy ... [...]