1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/heblang July 2000
2 312 20_Anthropomorphic Maps11_Cohen, Izzy18_Izzy_Cohen@bmc.com31_Wed, 26 Jul 2000 02:03:22 -0500572_iso-8859-1 Akiva, Benjamin et al. --<br><br>Akiva Miller asked about Mesopotamia and MiSHPaTiM. I agree with the "middle of rivers" meaning for Mesopotamia. I think the co-incidence of consonants in these words is just a coincidence. My favorite is: GaLaPaGos and its reversal: arChiPeLaGo. The Galapagos is an archipelago but it really is named after the Spanish term for turtle... which I think is related to KLiPa = shell. In Israel, the slow-moving Nahal PoLeG (Greek phleg-) contains turtles. It is parallel to Nahal Alexander, which obviously has a Greek name. [...]
315 55 21_Resh in modern Hebrew7_Sefarad21_sefarad@geocities.com31_Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:35:43 -0400572_US-ASCII Dear friends,<br><br>You all know how the RESH is pronounced in modern Hebrew. It is similar to the French "R". I cannot find in Arabic (the dialect I have studied or other dialects I researched, except from some Algerian speakers) or any other Semitic language a word where the "R" is pronounced like the RESH in modern Hebrew. It is said that modern Hebrew owns its pronunciation to the Sephardic Jews. In Ibero America and Spain we pronounced the RESH always like the Spanish "R". My question is, could it be possible that the sound of the RESH in modern [...]
371 35 25_Re: Resh in modern Hebrew14_Tsuguya Sasaki15_tsuguya@gol.com31_Thu, 27 Jul 2000 07:07:09 +0900644_iso-8859-1 It would be too simplified and mythicized to say that Modern Hebrew owes its pronunciation solely to the traditional Sephardic pronunciation. It is true that Modern Hebrew owes its vowel system to the Sephardic pronunciation, but when it comes to consonants, it is influenced more by the Ashkenazic counterpart.<br><br>As for the present pronunciation of _resh_ as a voiced velar fricative, it seems more plausible to explain it as a result of the influence by the Ashkenazic pronunciation, where _resh_ is also rendered as a voiced velar fricative. Actually, all the consonants with the exception of _tav_ without _dagesh_ are [...]
407 39 25_Re: Resh in modern Hebrew13_Richard Isaac18_rmisaac@eskimo.com37_Wed, 26 Jul 2000 16:01:45 -0700 (PDT)518_US-ASCII On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Tsuguya Sasaki wrote:<br><br>> As for the present pronunciation of _resh_ as a voiced velar fricative, > it seems more plausible to explain it as a result of the influence by > the Ashkenazic pronunciation, where _resh_ is also rendered as a voiced > velar fricative. Actually, all the consonants with the exception of > _tav_ without _dagesh_ are pronounced the same in Modern Hebrew and > Ashkenazic Hebrew. _resh_ in Biblical Hebrew is reconstructed as a > voiced alveolar trill. [...]
447 16 26_Is this list still active?13_David Fishman23_fishman@photon.poly.edu37_Wed, 26 Jul 2000 19:38:08 -0400 (EDT)290_US-ASCII ... or has it been supplanted by another?<br><br>biVrachah, David<br><br>------------------------ heblang@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ heblang@shamash.org -----------------------=
464 66 25_Re: Resh in modern Hebrew14_Tsuguya Sasaki15_tsuguya@gol.com31_Thu, 27 Jul 2000 08:48:32 +0900649_iso-8859-1 Richard Isaac wrote:<br><br>> So is the lowering of the vowel in the presence of resh (as happens > with the groniyot/guttural consonants) something that does not date > back to Biblical Hebrew? Eg. serev instead of sirev, mforash vs. > mfurash.<br><br>First of all, not _mforash_ but _meforash_.<br><br>I am fully aware of this phenomenon called "compensatory lengthening" and the consequent hypothesis that _resh_ was not alveolar but velar or uvular in the reconstructed Biblical Hebrew. The more accepted opinion among scholars, however, seems to be that _resh_ was alveolar. This is clearly summarized in the following words by [...]
531 51 25_Re: Resh in modern Hebrew13_Richard Isaac18_rmisaac@eskimo.com37_Wed, 26 Jul 2000 17:15:37 -0700 (PDT)363_US-ASCII On Thu, 27 Jul 2000, Tsuguya Sasaki wrote:<br><br>> Richard Isaac wrote: > > > So is the lowering of the vowel in the presence of resh (as happens > > with the groniyot/guttural consonants) something that does not date > > back to Biblical Hebrew? Eg. serev instead of sirev, mforash vs. > > mfurash. > > First of all, not _mforash_ but _meforash_. [...]
583 23 25_Re: Resh in modern Hebrew7_Sefarad21_sefarad@geocities.com31_Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:49:47 -0400468_US-ASCII Thank you for your feedback. It is very helpful. A more specific question, I am not that concern with slang or the way Hebrew it is spoken in the streets of Israel, but the teaching of classical Hebrew in the classroom; In this context, what is your advice concerning the sound of Hebrew, should I follow modern Israeli or what some scholars propose as the sound of ancient Hebrew? Whebever you have time, I will appreciate your feedback. Shalom! Frantz [...]
607 64 25_Re: Resh in modern Hebrew14_Tsuguya Sasaki15_tsuguya@gol.com31_Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:00:45 +0900418_iso-8859-1 Richard Isaac wrote:<br><br>> So you may prefer, but I prefer to transcribe it as I did, to indicate > the shwa (and let the reader determine which shwa) instead of > confusing a less knowledgeable reader that it might be written with > a segol. Besides, when a ha- is added, I find my transliteration more > accurate to Modern Hebrew, which I have studied and speak, without > needing any alteration. [...]
672 45 32_Pronunciation of Biblical Hebrew14_Tsuguya Sasaki15_tsuguya@gol.com31_Thu, 27 Jul 2000 11:41:52 +0900617_iso-8859-1 I hope I am not the only person among subscribers of this list who advocates the teaching of Biblical Hebrew according to the Modern Hebrew pronunciation. Here are some of my rationales.<br><br>Although we can recostruct the phonological system of Biblical Hebrew as reflected in the Tiberian tradition, we can not be sure in minute details as to how each and every vowel or consonant was exactly pronounced from the viewpoint of articulatory phonetics, nor do we have any living oral tradition of Hebrew that follows the Tiberian tradition. It would be an ideal if we could pronounce Biblical Hebrew [...]