1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/heblang June 2000
2 36 33_Re: Normativism vs. descriptivism7_Sefarad21_sefarad@geocities.com31_Thu, 08 Jun 2000 00:36:37 -0400625_US-ASCII I understand, according to an article I read many years ago, that there are around 18 variations of pronunciation of Hebrew letters among the different Jewish communities. While I was student at the Hebrew University one of our teachers proposed that the sound of Biblical Hebrew was closer to Arabic. In the USA there are probably around 11 variations of pronouncing English among native English speakers. The Spanish spoken by people of Andalucia, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Sephardic Jews is very similar, but different in pronunciation from that spoken by other Latin Americans and from the one spoken by people of [...]
39 81 33_Re: Normativism vs. descriptivism7_Sefarad21_sefarad@geocities.com31_Thu, 08 Jun 2000 00:44:03 -0400589_US-ASCII Many of the people that arrived in Israel already "spoke" Hebrew and Aramaic, at least for prayer purposes at the synagogues. Even those who already used Hebrew even at home (few, but some) had their own "dialect" of it. For example Yemenite Jews, which Golda Meir and other considered to be speakers of a form of ancient Hebrew. If we base our judgement on some of the European grammar texts (or North American ones) we may have some problems with modern Hebrew. To expect Israelis to speak like the ancient Israel is like pretend that North American English speakers speak [...]
121 36 33_Re: Normativism vs. descriptivism16_RUTHANNA BARNETT25_r.barnett@lancaster.ac.uk36_Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:18:35 +0100 (BST)568_us-ascii Just to add my two pennyworth to the discussion - as has been pointed out, all languages change and develop all the time, and exhibit a fair amount of variation at any one time. Hebrew is no different. With regard to not speaking anyone's saba's Hebrew - reminds me of quote i read recently - can't remember precisely where and the article is at home, so i can't check now - but maybe from Eliezer Ben-Rafael's recent book, where an older member of a family, listening to grandchildren speak, said 'I speak Hebrew, not Israeli'. However the main point i [...]
158 40 33_Re: Normativism vs. descriptivism10_Jerry Blaz19_ffdog@earthlink.net31_Thu, 08 Jun 2000 02:24:23 -0700535_us-ascii In my prior posts, I pointed out the fact that social elites created the sounds of the Hebrew we hear today. The people who came from lands speaking European languages including English, did not have the sounds in their speech vocabulary to properly pronounce all the Hebrew sounds, and they substituted sounds that they could express that they felt to be "like" the sounds that they could not express. In fact, it has been stated by some that these elites spoke Hebrew with a Sephardic desire and an Ashkenazic ability. [...]
199 39 33_Re: Normativism vs. descriptivism0_15_rturkel@cas.org36_Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:53:33 -0400 (EDT)415_- Akiva Miller <kennethgmiller@juno.com> wrote:<br><br>>Me? My problem was figuring out what "Mah nishma" meant.<br><br>That's an easy one. It's a direct translation of the Yiddish "vos hert sikh" and the Russian "shto slyshno." I had an uncle who was wont to translate common Yiddish expressions word for word into English; regarding the former, I distinctly remember him asking me once, "What hears itself?" [...]
239 85 33_Re: Normativism vs. descriptivism7_Sefarad21_sefarad@geocities.com31_Thu, 08 Jun 2000 22:42:37 -0400635_US-ASCII This is a very interesting statement. I use to "kid around" with my students (the Ashkenazi ones). I told them that they, the Ashkenazi, gave modern Hebrew its body (cursive script), but we, the Sephardic, gave the spirit (pronunciation) without it the language is death. Of course, I know is not 100% accurate, but just between friends who care so much about preserving this language. I have noticed the contribution to modern Hebrew coming from Falasha, Ashkenazi, Sephardic, Yemenite, Karaite, and other Jewish communities. It is interesting to see the influence of English, specially due to North American movies and [...]