1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet July 2007 2 142 10_Re: Lyrics12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sun, 1 Jul 2007 07:45:27 +0300554_us-ascii Shalom Jon, I'm coming back to your posting of some days ago only to point out that on first reading I missed the thrust of it. >Jews live here because they don't want to live as a minority in > anothercountry. If non-Jews in Israel don't like living as a > minority in this > country, they should consider moving to one of the many > and/or Muslim Arab countries that exist in the world. And my response is what will Israeli Jews do if and when Palestinian birthrates make them the majority? Is apartheid an option? ----- Original Message [...] 145 696 21_Fw: Subject: A review11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 30 Jun 2007 23:01:46 -0700686_iso-8859-1

I got this from a friend. Has anyone from Habonet seen the movie yet? We were looking forward to seeing it very soon, but now I have some misgiving. Was this reviewer too sensitive?

Steve



Subject: Subject: A review





An Unighty Film By_Debbie Schlussel_ (http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.asp?ID=1506) (http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/authors.asp?ID=1506) FrontPageMagazine.com | June 18, 2007

I went to the screening of "_A Mighty Heart_ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0829459/) "--activists Brad Pitt's and Angelina Jolie's movie on the Al-Qaeda murder of Daniel Pearl--expecting a movie with an agenda. [...] 842 338 10_Re: Lyrics13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Sun, 1 Jul 2007 20:14:24 +0300457_us-ascii Hi Amnon.

You're asking me about a situation that would probably be the end of us anyway. I get asked a lot about what I think the solution here should be. Believe me, if I were sure I knew I'd let everyone know.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadary Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 7:45 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Lyrics [...] 1181 62 14_martin primack0_18_RickGlaser@AOL.COM28_Sun, 1 Jul 2007 21:44:31 EDT687_US-ASCII Does anyone know anything about Martin Primack's Habonim experiences. He would be about 78 years old. He died a few years ago. He apparently attended Moshava at some point - anyone know when?

He may also have been on one of the first workshops.

Thanks.

Rick Glaser



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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 1244 115 52_Fw: a disturbing video - Hamas misusing Mickey Mouse11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:08:08 -0700494_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:07 AM Subject: Fw: a disturbing video - Hamas misusing Mickey Mouse





----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 11:04 AM Subject: a disturbing video - Hamas misusing Mickey Mouse to brainwash the next generation of Palestinian children. It is without glee, but with trepidation that I forward this to you. [...] 1360 195 46_Where are you now Menachem? Was Menschlichkeit12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:26:55 +0300642_windows-1252

Haverot/im For quite a while I believed that June 20, 1977 was the worst day in Israel’s history. In political science the day is called the Mahapach – the Overthrow. It marked the peaceful changing of the guard at the head of Israel’s government from Labor to Menachem Begin’s Herut party. For many years before I had believed that Begin personified all that I opposed and feared in the Zionist psyche. Aggrieved, Irredentist, Expansionist, Anti Histadrut, Kibbutz basher and Anti-Democrat for starters. When Ben Gurion announced the reparations agreement with Germany in 1952 Begin stood on a Jerusalem balcony on [...] 1556 53 34_ancient sedrei ha yom for machanot19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 17:02:36 -0700417_iso-8859-1 Hi all,

I was wondering whether anyone out there has a seder hayom from being on tzevet in the 1960s or 1970s. I know it's a stretch, since we didn't have computers back then, but maybe some of you were sentimental and kept a scrapbook or something. Anyway, I sure would like to see one of those if you have one. It would help in some discussions with the current tzevet. Thanks for your help. [...] 1610 303 38_Re: ancient sedrei ha yom for machanot11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 20:16:29 -0400432_us-ascii Probably doesn't help, but I still remember the seder yom from Galil in the '90s when I was there.



Too bad my steel trap memory doesn't predate my existence.





_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Orit Lowy Chicherio Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 8:03 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: ancient sedrei ha yom for machanot [...] 1914 43 38_Re: ancient sedrei ha yom for machanot0_23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:48:12 -0400 1958 250 50_Re: Where are you now Menachem? Was Menschlichkeit11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:47:36 -0400667_utf-8 Thank you for making us think and wonder what it is all about. How far have we come? Sylvia



-----Original Message----- From: amnon hadary To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 4:26 pm Subject: Where are you now Menachem? Was Menschlichkeit





Â

Haverot/im

For quite a while I believed that June 20, 1977 was the worst day in Israel’s history. In political science the day is called the Mahapach – the Overthrow.  It marked the peaceful changing of the guard at the head of Israel’s government from Labor to Menachem Begin’s Herut party. For many years before I [...] 2209 48 38_Re: ancient sedrei ha yom for machanot20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:01:09 -0700345_iso-8859-1 Orit--

In the past year or so I came across a folder of stuff from machaneh, much like you are looking for. I will have to figure out where it was, and try to find it again.

Naomi



--------------------------------- Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. [...] 2258 59 38_Re: ancient sedrei ha yom for machanot19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 2 Jul 2007 22:10:12 -0700410_iso-8859-1 Thanks, Naomi. I feel like I saw something like that in the stuff my parents dumped on me within the past few years, but I haven't been able to find it yet.

Naomi Goldberg Honor wrote: Orit--

In the past year or so I came across a folder of stuff from machaneh, much like you are looking for. I will have to figure out where it was, and try to find it again. [...] 2318 110 22_Re: Baseball in Israel0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 3 Jul 2007 09:28:00 -0400521_us-ascii For those who missed the PBS broadcast of the game, the announcer talked about Nate Rosenberg, the son of our esteemed Habonet member Avi Rosenberg, noting that he is the youngest player in the league.

I got to see a couple of games at Gezer during a recent trip to Israel for meetings and it was amazing. From a?softball field on a dirt patch where the children houses now sit to professional baseball on Hambo Field, built in memory of the late chair of the Na'aleh Camp Committee, Velvl Lehr z"l. [...] 2429 114 22_Re: Baseball in Israel11_Batel Libes23_batel_libes@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:38:56 +0000439_-

What a wonderful way to remember Velvl; I still tell my kids stories told around the dinner table at the Lehr house--a true Habonim dynasty.

Batel -------------- Original message -------------- From: kbob24@AOL.COM For those who missed the PBS broadcast of the game, the announcer talked about Nate Rosenberg, the son of our esteemed Habonet member Avi Rosenberg, noting that he is the youngest player in the league. [...] 2544 86 22_Re: Baseball in Israel0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM28_Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:17:38 EDT529_ISO-8859-1

In a message dated 7/3/07 10:39:51 AM, batel_libes@COMCAST.NET writes:



> What a wonderful way to remember Velvl; I still tell my kids stories told > around the dinner table at the Lehr house--a true Habonim dynasty. > > Batel > > More than 20 years ago, I was the kindergarten and first grade teacher of Jacob Lehr - Velvl's grandson. I'd love to know if he ever attended Naaleh or any Habonim machaneh. Does anyone have any info on that family? His parents are Rachel Lehr and Kim Meuser. [...] 2631 238 22_Re: Baseball in Israel0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM28_Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:26:29 EDT593_US-ASCII Naomi Lehr - Velvel's daughter (and a Naaleh alum) is an active member of the Naaleh Camp Committee and has been since it's re-incarnation almost 10 years ago.











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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 2870 637 18_Re: martin primack12_Danny Kanter20_kanter18@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:03:18 -0500416_us-ascii







Rick,

Included in the Tavor archive are the contact lists of workshops 1, 2, & 3. The name Martin Primack isn't on any of them.

The 56th workshop just concluded this past May. Assuming that Workshop is/was a program for 18 years olds, (we had one 21 year old, Don Klein, on the 21st workshop) wouldn't Martin have predated the workshop program by 4 years? [...] 3508 662 18_Re: martin primack11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 4 Jul 2007 15:28:58 -0400495_iso-8859-1 Seems like a search of records relating to the habonim institute (precursor to workshop) and the hachshara programs might be a better place to look for him? ----- Original Message ----- From: Danny Kanter To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 12:03 PM Subject: Re: martin primack











Rick,

Included in the Tavor archive are the contact lists of workshops 1, 2, & 3. The name Martin Primack isn't on any of them. [...] 4171 107 11_Bianca Ryan11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 5 Jul 2007 08:47:14 -0700853_iso-8859-1

This one falls under the category of "Not-Jewish-but-So-Special-You've-Got-To-Share-It-With-Friends".

Skip it if you wish.

Steve







Subject: Fwd: Bianca Ryan: AWESOME





























--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



_______________________________________________

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 4279 259 44_UK Warning: Look Out For People Doing Things13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Fri, 6 Jul 2007 14:21:47 +0300633_us-ascii

UK Warning: Look Out For People Doing Things



London - British public safety officials today increased the national alert level to "Quite Elevated Indeed" -- the highest category possible -- and appealed to UK citizens to "keep a sharp lookout for diverse people engaged in activities."

"We ask the public to report any behaviors by various people that may or may not be of a suspicious nature," said Lt. Clive Jameson of the Metropolitan Police Service. "We further ask the public to be especially vigilant for activities of broad stratas of people who may be from countries of some sort, [...] 4539 173 48_Re: UK Warning: Look Out For People Doing Things12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Fri, 6 Jul 2007 16:37:32 +0300606_us-ascii Hey Jon, this is one of the funniest things you've ever sent. shabbat shalom Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum Date: Friday, July 6, 2007 2:22 pm Subject: UK Warning: Look Out For People Doing Things To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> > UK Warning: Look Out For People Doing Things > > > London - British public safety officials today increased the > national alert > level to "Quite Elevated Indeed" -- the highest category possible - > - and > appealed to UK citizens to "keep a sharp lookout for diverse > people engaged > in activities." > [...] 4713 76 50_Fw: Love Israel? Take a look at this amazing video11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 6 Jul 2007 09:35:48 -0700657_iso-8859-1

Almost guaranteed you've never seen Israel like this!

Steve



Subject: Love Israel? Take a look at this amazing video





Hi, Take a look at this video of Israel from Night to Dawn. It is a part of the Israel Aerial Odyssey. The link is http://www.jerusalemonline.com/tourism2.asp Hope you enjoy it!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4790 177 23_The textbook terrorists13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Sat, 7 Jul 2007 10:01:11 +0300544_us-ascii The textbook terrorists



By Andrew Pierce The roots of last week's attempted terrorist attacks in Britain lie not in poverty but in the thwarted aspirations of middle-class Muslims



One of the most shocking revelations in the aftermath of the July 7 attack, whose second anniversary falls today, was that the four suicide bombers were born and bred in Britain. Two years on from the worst terrorist attack on British soil, and the nation is again trying to come to terms with another savage bomb plot. [...] 4968 313 40_Fwd: Her Jewish State/ Ny Times Magazine16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 7 Jul 2007 22:04:13 -0700507_iso-8859-1



Note: forwarded message attached.

--------------------------------- Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 5282 160 39_If it ain=?windows-1252?Q?=92t?= broken12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sun, 8 Jul 2007 22:56:25 +0300404_windows-1252

Sometimes my mind wanders during Shabbat services until I pull up the straying thoughts and tell them to behave. This week was a case in point. Just before the Torah scroll was taken out of the Aron Kodesh, the following line “Av harachamim be merciful to Jerusalem: rebuild Jerusalem’s wall” which asks god to be merciful went buzzing through my mind until it ran into a wall. [...] 5443 2284 39_Sharon's AMEX project--please vote!!!!!11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 9 Jul 2007 14:34:44 -0400375_ISO-8859-1 Dear Chevreh-

My sister Sharon Gelman's project made it into the top 50 in the American Express Members Projects. If you have an American Express card, please register and vote for this great project. Voting ends Saturday at noon!

Warmly, Judy Gelman





*Help Africa's AIDS Orphans. Vote Today. Spread the Word. *

* * [...] 7728 86 46_Fw: [Political Mavens] Daily Digest 2007-07-1011_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:51:44 -0700663_utf-8 There were many relevant articles on this posting.

Steve





> > Political Mavens has posted new items at http://politicalmavens.com > > > > Here are the latest items: > > > > ==== Suddenly, co-payments don't look so 'Sicko' after all... ==== > == by Bridget Johnson== > http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2007/07/10/suddenly-co-payments-dont-look-so-sicko-after-all/ > Last fall, I discovered a lump in my breast. With the requisite dread, I > went > to my primary care physician, had a diagnostic mammogram, had an > ultrasound > after that, then was referred to a surgeon who removed the lump and sent > it for > biopsy. [...] 7815 332 51_Fw: Antisemitic Polish Priest: Demand Dismissal NOW11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:07:27 -0700464_utf-8 Untitled Document To the "group". No, you do not have to send money nor compromise your moral toolbox by adding your support to this petition. Also, it is only for people that have gotten past the "Petitions-are-useless" debate.

Steve

Please forward to your friends.





URGENT ACTION PETITION July 10, 2007



FATHER RYDZYK, JEW-HATING MEDIA MOGUL LEVERAGES ANTISEMITISM TO CAUSE POLITICAL CRISIS IN POLAND [...] 8148 27 31_Fw: ADL web page recommendation11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 12 Jul 2007 14:15:04 -0700552_iso-8859-1 >I thought you might be interested in this article: > > ADL Calls Vatican Prayer for Conversion of Jews 'A Theological Setback' > and 'A Body Blow to Catholic-Jewish Relations' > > http://www.adl.org/PresRele/VaticanJewish_96/5093_96.htm > >

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8176 213 47_Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Fri, 13 Jul 2007 00:45:56 EDT630_ISO-8859-1









_http://www.guardianhttp://www.ghttp://wwhttp://www.http_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2125486,00.html)

Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel

*·* Expats offer families £30,000 to emigrate *·* Our identity is not for sale, say community leaders

*Robert Tait in Tehran Friday July 13, 2007 The Guardian <_http://www.guardianhttp:/_ (http://www.guardian.co.uk/) >*

Iran's Jews have given the country a loyalty pledge in the face of cash offers aimed at encouraging them to move to Israel, the arch-enemy of its Islamic rulers. [...] 8390 295 51_Re: Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:03:40 -0700500_iso-8859-1

Sounds like a real bargain: Say "yes" and die.

Steve



Subject: Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel







http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2125486,00.html

Iran's Jews reject cash offer to move to Israel

*·* Expats offer families £30,000 to emigrate *·* Our identity is not for sale, say community leaders

*Robert Tait in Tehran Friday July 13, 2007 The Guardian * [...] 8686 178 12_The Blue Box12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:10:12 +0300586_windows-1252 Haverot/im When I lived on the West Side of Chicago I used to go collecting money on tag days for the Jewish National Fund. The chant was “help buy land for Jews in Palestine.” My route was usually Independence Blvd. But because I was a displaced Palestinian kid I didn’t catch the double entendre of independence and buying land. The Jewish people have regained their homeland but Israeli Arabs now have enormous difficulty in buying land. I did know the words to such formative Zionist songs: “A dunam here a dunam there/ one clod of earth after another/ that’s how [...] 8865 98 42_Re: Forward - The Dilemmas of Jewish Power11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:41:07 -0400606_iso-8859-1 Sorry to be so slow responding to this provocative piece that Elihu sent in late June, I'm a little behind on my reading.

One of the many ideas that jumped out at me from this piece was the following from Rabbi Kula's response:

"One of the great transformations that Zionism ushered in and that the Holocaust demanded was that Jews take and exercise power, in all the ways that non-Jews exercised power, in defense and in pursuit of our national aims. This was heresy (see the Talmud tractate Ketubot 110a where assuming power is specifically prohibited) and made Zionism one [...] 8964 89 42_Re: Forward - The Dilemmas of Jewish Power12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 14 Jul 2007 17:14:42 +0300419_us-ascii Noam Google Eliezer Schweid Holocaust. Rivka and I translated some of his work but I don't remember the exact title. The ultra orthodox don't reject Zionism and the state on the same grounds. Shabbat shalom Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak Date: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:41 pm Subject: Re: Forward - The Dilemmas of Jewish Power To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 9054 123 16_Re: The Blue Box12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 14 Jul 2007 09:31:44 -0700579_iso-8859-1 Amnon- While I completely agree with your sentiments, let me share something that happened at last week's "shabbat dinner" at my friend Ziporah's house. Ziporrah is an amazing woman- She has 5 children from four differnt fathers. She was in the music business when she came here from Israel at the age of 18-being sponsored by Bob Myman- who produced many films and Tv shows, and was best friends with John Ritter. Ziporrah also is great friends with Donna Summer. She is a few years younger than I --and two years ago had twin girls. She is a "chozer b'tshuvah" [...] 9178 174 31_Fw: Oldie ...Jewish Grandmother11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:14:09 -0700570_iso-8859-1



For those still enthralled by Buber's concept of I-Thou.

Steve







A Jewish grandma and her grandson are at the beach. He's playing in > the water, she is standing on the shore not wanting to get her feet > wet, when all of a sudden, a huge wave appears from nowhere and > crashes directly onto the spot where the boy is wading. The water > recedes and the boy is no longer there ..he was swept away. > > The grandma holds her hands to the sky, screams and cries: Lord, my > GOD, how could you? Have n't [...] 9353 770 68_Fw: Pomegranate Seed Oil Causes Breast Cancer Cells to Self Destruct11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:16:03 -07001099_UTF-8 AOL Email





FYI

Steve

































































































Photo: Suzanne Saines Pomegranate Seed Oil Causes Breast Cancer Cells to Self-Destruct



On the heels of the discovery by Israeli researchers that pomegranate juice has antioxidant properties, another Israeli team has found that the fruit could have important implications for breast cancer treatment and estrogen replacement therapy.



HAIFA, ISRAEL and NEW YORK, N.Y., – On the heels of the discovery by Israeli researchers that pomegranate juice has antioxidant properties, another Israeli team has found that the fruit could have important implications for breast cancer treatment and estrogen replacement therapy. [...] 10124 210 37_The Dilemmas of Jewish Power - Koziva7_Jessica21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sun, 15 Jul 2007 22:50:55 +0300359_ISO-8859-1 Saw David Roskies, scholar of Yiddish lit. etc. this Shabbat at the Leader/Crocodile Minyan. His upcoming book is '1943.' It documents activity / writings during this year in Europe, the US and Palestine. Apparently he turns up quite a lot of Haredi Zionism in response to the persecution - for what it's worth. Will be an interesting read... [...] 10335 71 42_Re: Forward - The Dilemmas of Jewish Power14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:26:54 +0000492_- Shalom Noam:

In his blog, Rabbi Kula writes,

"One of the great transformations that Zionism ushered in and that the Holocaust demanded was that Jews take and exercise power, in all the ways that non-Jews exercised power, in defense and in pursuit of our national aims. This was heresy (see the Talmud tractate Ketubot 110a where assuming power is specifically prohibited) and made Zionism one of the greatest revolutionary movements in the history of the Jewish people." [...] 10407 57 21_Missing Opportunities12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 09:37:34 +0300344_us-ascii Haverim/ot Shimon Peres was sworn in as our President. At the ceremony he said "We have to get rid of the territories," While he is aware of the constraints of his new job, Peres said, he will not halt his crusade for peace with the Palestinians- and peace, he added, will require Israel to withdraw from most of the territories. [...] 10465 542 60_[QUAR] Fwd: WOW! Jeremiah authenticated via cuneiform tablet16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 03:02:13 -0700556_iso-8859-1 Quite interesting article.

Note: forwarded message attached.

--------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 11008 174 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: WOW! Jeremiah authenticated via cuneiform tablet12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:07:06 -0700790_iso-8859-1 Thanks Roz- and another "WOW"!!!...suz



--- Rosalind Barland wrote:

> Quite interesting article. > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > --------------------------------- > Get your own web address. > Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 08:34:58 +0300 > From: "Ilana [...] 11183 62 25_Re: Missing Opportunities12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:22:32 -0700587_iso-8859-1 Huh???- you email ended with "at an evening wherre..."--where what???- Sue



--- amnon hadary wrote:

> Haverim/ot > Shimon Peres was sworn in as our President. At the > ceremony he said > "We have to get rid of the territories," While he > is aware of the constraints of his new job, Peres > said, he will not halt his crusade for peace with > the Palestinians- and peace, he added, will require > Israel to withdraw from most of the territories. > > Only one Arab Member of Knesset was present to hear > this statement which [...] 11246 87 25_Re: Missing Opportunities12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:05:23 +0300485_windows-1252 Sue - continuation Only one Arab Member of Knesset was present to hear this statement which proves the statement (Abba Eban) “The Arabs have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. True, all the other Arab MK's were in Haifa at an evening where the world's best-known Palestinian poet, Mahmoud Darwish made his first appearance in three decades. However, they should have asked Darwish to change the time of his appearance and made theirs at the Knesset. [...] 11334 139 25_Re: Missing Opportunities12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:11:25 -0700614_iso-8859-1 Thanks for finishing that...s



--- amnon hadary wrote:

> Sue - continuation > Only one Arab Member of Knesset was present to hear > this statement which proves the statement (Abba > Eban) “The Arabs have never missed an opportunity > to miss an opportunity. True, all the other Arab > MK's were in Haifa at an evening where the world's > best-known Palestinian poet, Mahmoud Darwish made > his first appearance in three decades. However, they > should have asked Darwish to change the time of his > appearance and made theirs at the Knesset. > > Amnon [...] 11474 100 19_Galil's new program0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:54:14 EDT581_US-ASCII Since we have been in the planning process for a whiIe now, and it now seems like it will actually happen, I thought it was time to announce the creation of a new Camp Galil program. Both in an effort to increase our annual revenue, and for the sake of providing a meaningful, Jewish family, Habonim-oriented, educational activity, Camp Galil will be providing summer camp for families this Labor Day weekend - August 31 to Sept. 2. Parents clamour regularly for a chance to understand what actually takes place during the summer for their campers, so this will be a [...] 11575 2139 71_Your vote needed (again) for AMEX members' project to help AIDS orphans11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:05:41 -0400290_ISO-8859-1 Thanks to many of you, my sister Sharon's project made it into the top 25. Now we need your vote so this wonderful project can make it into the top 5. Voting in this round ends just after midnight on Saturday. Please vote for **6841 - Help African Children Orphaned by AIDS [...] 13715 260 23_Re: Galil's new program11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:16:40 -0400687_us-ascii Are any alumni from 1995-1998 showing up, that you know of? Or is this mostly new families?





_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Ohanka@AOL.COM Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 11:54 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Galil's new program





Since we have been in the planning process for a whiIe now, and it now seems like it will actually happen, I thought it was time to announce the creation of a new Camp Galil program. Both in an effort to increase our annual revenue, and for the sake of providing a meaningful, Jewish family, Habonim-oriented, educational activity, [...] 13976 80 23_Re: Galil's new program19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:46:07 -0400 14057 165 75_Re: Your vote needed (again) for AMEX members' project to help AIDS orphans13_Sharon Gelman16_ShanG777@AOL.COM29_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 01:53:06 EDT477_US-ASCII

You are a really good sister!

Thanks, doll

Sharon

In a message dated 7/16/2007 10:06:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:





Thanks to many of you, my sister Sharon's project made it into the top 25. Now we need your vote so this wonderful project can make it into the top 5. Voting in this round ends just after midnight on Saturday. Please vote for 6841 - Help African Children Orphaned by AIDS [...] 14223 679 58_Fw: A "Feel Good" story about Barn Owls, Israel and Jordan11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:50:15 -0700435_UTF-8

Passing this along for those that will enjoy it.

Steve







This is a "feel good" story. Worth reading

With love, Howard

Barn owls unite Israelis, Jordanians By BEN WINOGRAD, Associated Press Writer Sun Jul 15, 12:45 PM ET

SHEIK HUSSEIN VILLAGE, Jordan - For years, Ibrahim Alayyan watched in frustration as rats devoured the date palms at his lush family farm. [...] 14903 34 104_Fw: Political Mavens link recommendation from Steve Klein and Marcia Plager (kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:49:16 -0700617_iso-8859-1 I got this off the Political Mavens site.

Steve



> > http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2007/07/16/efraim-zuroffs-open-letter-to-croatias-thompson/ > > > > >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 14938 42 11_Workshop 5711_Batel Libes23_batel_libes@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:30:58 +0000499_- Yesterday my daughter received her workshop package which is very exciting. I'm just wondering if there are others on this list who might have a child attending this upcoming workshop?

Batel

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 14981 86 15_Re: Workshop 570_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:14:36 EDT392_ISO-8859-1

In a message dated 7/17/07 3:33:04 PM, batel_libes@COMCAST.NET writes:



> Yesterday my daughter received her workshop package which is very exciting. > I'm just wondering if there are others on this list who might have a child > attending this upcoming workshop? > > Batel > > I don't have kids going, but I understand there are more than 40 altogether. [...] 15068 91 23_Re: Galil's new program0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 17:23:14 EDT509_US-ASCII

In a message dated 7/17/07 1:46:50 AM, sc523@AOL.COM writes:



> Great idea ! Yasher koach to Galil for being in the forefront of Jewish > family education! > > Aliya >

Thanks for your encouragement. Aliya, I was thinking that you may want to contribute more tangibly. You have so much to offer. Would you like to come to lead a peulah with adults or kids? What about leading a discussion group on Shabbat morning? The weekend would be free if you came. Let me know. [...] 15160 75 15_Re: Workshop 5711_Batel Libes23_batel_libes@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:01:56 +0000586_- I believe the number is 42, and reading the program made me so very jealous and excited and proud of The Movement for putting together such a wonderful experience...much better than going directly to college.... batel

-------------- Original message -------------- From: Ohanka@AOL.COM

In a message dated 7/17/07 3:33:04 PM, batel_libes@COMCAST.NET writes:





Yesterday my daughter received her workshop package which is very exciting. I'm just wondering if there are others on this list who might have a child attending this upcoming workshop? [...] 15236 20 23_Re: Galil's new program8_cpristoo17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:04:41 -0400490_ISO-8859-1 You deserve so much credit for your initiative! Allan Pristoop

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 15257 92 100_Fw: Check out "In Poland, a Jewi sh Revival Thrives =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=94?= Minus Jews - New York T...11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:57:55 -0700317_UTF-8

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:51 PM Subject: Fw: Check out "In Poland, a Jewish Revival Thrives — Minus Jews - New York T...



Click Here: Check out "In Poland, a Jewish Revival Thrives — Minus Jews - New York Times" [...] 15350 86 45_Fw: Jewish History Center Video - Must see!!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:35:57 -0700717_iso-8859-1

Not for all tastes- but great for some.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Jewish History Center Video - Must see!!!



This is a MUST SEE, and this is just a glimpse. copy and paste: http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=3247897856567474999&q=aish+virtual+museum&hl=



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 15437 369 15_Re: Workshop 5712_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 09:30:53 +0300527_windows-1252 Batel Your excitement is so palpable that it jumps right off the page. And 57 really is an impressive number. It gave me a reality update tho. I was a madrich of the 9th through the 14th workshops at Gesher Haziv. That’s a sobering thought – a whole lifetime ago. A wonderfully exciting and formative experience - not only for the chanichim. Amnon ----- Original Message ----- From: Batel Libes Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:02 am Subject: Re: Workshop 57 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 15807 138 105_Re: Fw: Check out "In Poland, a Jewi sh R evival Thrives =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=94?= Minus Jews - New York T...11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:24:45 -0400615_UTF-8 My parents were in Krakow when the festival was being held a couple of years ago and they describe it as if you happened into the Smithsonian when they were holding a living history festival on the Hittites, only you were a Hittite. Warmly, Judy

Steve Klein wrote:

> > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Steve Klein > *To:* Steve Klein > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:51 PM > *Subject:* Fw: Check out "In Poland, a Jewish Revival Thrives — Minus > Jews - New York T... > > Click Here: Check out "In Poland, a [...] 15946 87 22_Re: Baseball in Israel13_avi rosenberg17_avir673@GMAIL.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 15:38:16 +0300555_ISO-8859-1 Dear Norman, Hello, this is Loscha, Ricky and Avi's old friend. I am visiting today at Gezer, and as I was telling Ricky about my daughter, Ella, who is currently living in Los Angeles, she suggested that I write to you for some advice. Ella is living in Manhattan Beach, and working selling "Dead Sea" cosmetics at the malls. you must have heard about this kind of work, it is very popular amongst the Israeli youth. anyway, she is very unhappy, she would like to stay in Los Angeles and work, but she doesn't know anyone, nor do I, that [...] 16034 470 15_Re: Workshop 5711_Batel Libes23_Batel_Libes@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 07:17:41 -0700524_us-ascii Glad it came across. If someone in the Central Office is reading this, maybe you can post some information about the program so others can see how the experience has changed/progresses and adapted itself to the changes in Israel and the Kibbutz.





Batel





-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadary Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:31 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Workshop 57 [...] 16505 61 21_was just wondering...11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:27:34 +0000601_us-ascii Does anybody know if religious people have a problem with the theory of relativity/time dilation the way they have a problem with evolution? I was wondering about that, basically because with relativity/time dilation it shows that time is just another spacial dimension, isn't absolute, and that we only experience it in one way out of many possible ways (in this case forward) and that time can stop and the closer you get to the speed of light, the slower time goes relative to an observer. I figured religious people might have a problem with that because it negates genesis (because [...] 16567 83 25_Re: was just wondering...0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:38:50 -0400649_us-ascii











Does anybody know if religious people have a problem with the theory of relativity/time dilation the way they have a problem with evolution? I was wondering about that, basically because with relativity/time dilation it shows that time is just another spacial dimension, isn't absolute, and that we only experience it in one way out of many possible ways (in this case forward) and that time can stop and the closer you get to the speed of light, the slower time goes relative to an observer. I figured religious people might have a problem with that because it negates genesis (because [...] 16651 180 25_Re: was just wondering...13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:48:23 +0300532_us-ascii Julie, here is the faculty page of the physics department at Bar Ilan University. Perhaps you could ask one or more of the professors about their views. It might be more constructive than generalizing about religious people.

http://www.ph.biu.ac.il/fac.php

Good luck,

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Julie Esris Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 5:28 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: was just wondering... [...] 16832 182 25_Re: was just wondering...11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:52:50 +0000611_us-ascii I am confused. If the theory of relativity is true, how can the big bang be a true beginning, rather than something our fool brains perceive as a beginning?

----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:43 pm Subject: Re: was just wondering... To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> > > > > > > Does anybody know if religious people have a problem with the > theory of relativity/time dilation the way they have a problem > with evolution? I was wondering about that, basically because > with relativity/time dilation it shows that time is just another > [...] 17015 200 25_Re: was just wondering...11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:53:09 +0000650_us-ascii Thanks.

----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:51 pm Subject: Re: was just wondering... To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Julie, here is the faculty page of the physics department at Bar Ilan > University. Perhaps you could ask one or more of the professors > about their > views. It might be more constructive than generalizing about religious > people. > > http://www.ph.biu.ac.il/fac.php > > Good luck, > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh > [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On > Behalf Of Julie Esris > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 5:28 [...] 17216 177 25_Re: was just wondering...11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:17:14 -0400407_ISO-8859-1 Which "religious" people? Modern Orthodox Jews don't have a problem with evolution. There are born again Baptists working at NASA. Mormons don't have the same problems with dinosaurs as, for instance, Seventh Day Adventists. The adjunct rabbi at my congregation is trained as a physicist and he is certainly religious. Who do you have in mind? And why do you expect consistency? Judy Gelman [...] 17394 113 25_Re: was just wondering...0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 14:35:27 -0400639_us-ascii











I am confused. If the theory of relativity is true, how can the big bang be a true beginning, rather than something our fool brains perceive as a beginning?

Hey

First off, theories are not true or false. They are informative and useful. The theory of relativity is really a theory of underlying constancy. While time and space do a dance, there is an underlying stable object that can be seen differently from different perspectives. Gravity can slow time. So can motion. But mass and space also can be warped by motion and acceleration. But when you take all of [...] 17508 231 25_Re: was just wondering...11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:47:02 +0000596_us-ascii Interesting... thanks...

I'm sure that Bush himself would probably think that a third dimension would be a marvelous discovery. :)

JE ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:39 pm Subject: Re: was just wondering... To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> > > > > > > I am confused. If the theory of relativity is true, how can the > big bang be a true beginning, rather than something our fool > brains perceive as a beginning? > > Hey > > First off, theories are not true or false. They are informative > and useful. The theory [...] 17740 260 25_Re: was just wondering...11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:23:39 +0000381_us-ascii Well of course there isn't a blanket answer for everybody, as there is the occasional Chasidic Jew who believes in evolution, the occasional modern Orthodox Jew who doesn't... in GENERAL, however, Chasidic Jews won't believe in evolution. So I guess I'm asking in GENERAL do fundamentalists of religion (Judaism, Christianity) have to reject relativity on principle? [...] 18001 98 25_Re: was just wondering...12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:20:54 +0300408_us-ascii Julie What a pleasure to have this change of pace; interesting genuine questions asking for information instead of set ups for put downs. No flaming just genuine answers. I hope we can keep it rolling till Rosh Hashanah. Amnon



----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:43 pm Subject: Re: was just wondering... To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 18100 96 25_Re: was just wondering...13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:05:54 EDT426_US-ASCII

In a message dated 7/18/07 11:37:15 AM, smfgrappa@AOL.COM writes:



> A good book to read on the subject might be "The First Three Minutes" by > Steven Weinberg. >

Excellent book and excellent description, Sam.

Dr Weinberg, also a Nobel recipient (Physics), recently (one or two weeks ago) canceled his talk at a conference in Britain to protest the university Israel boycott. [...] 18197 155 25_Re: was just wondering...11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:14:25 +0000579_us-ascii My favorite is that Satan put dinosaur bones around to trick us.

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hancoff Date: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:09 pm Subject: Re: was just wondering... To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> > In a message dated 7/18/07 11:37:15 AM, smfgrappa@AOL.COM writes: > > > > A good book to read on the subject might be "The First Three > Minutes" by > > Steven Weinberg. > > > > Excellent book and excellent description, Sam. > > Dr Weinberg, also a Nobel recipient (Physics), recently (one or > two weeks > ago) canceled his talk at a [...] 18353 117 25_Re: was just wondering...0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:40:27 -0400414_us-ascii







A good book to read on the subject might be "The First Three Minutes" by Steven Weinberg.





Excellent book and excellent description, Sam.

Thanks Steve. Thanks Steve.

Dr Weinberg, also a Nobel recipient (Physics), recently (one or two weeks ago) canceled his talk at a conference in Britain to protest the university Israel boycott. [...] 18471 159 105_Re: Fw: Check out "In Poland, a Jewi sh R evival Thrives =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=94?= Minus Jews - New York T...11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:49:17 -0400351_UTF-8 I read this in the Times and enjoyed it and thought, wow, that's nice, and almost sent it to habonet myself. Then two nights ago a friend of my daugther's stopped in who had just been in Kracow at the time of the festival (son of a Rabbi). He said it was a nice festival, but didn't really seem very Jewish to him. Maybe it was Hittite :-) [...] 18631 239 106_Re: Fw: Check out "In Poland, a Jewi sh R evival Thrives =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=94?= Minu s Jews - New York T...11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:44:36 -0700293_UTF-8 It just seems so macabre to me. I wouldn't expect a bunch of non-Jews to be able to conceptualize "Jewishness" the way most Jews would. It just seems a shame they didn't "celebrate their Jews" until a little too late. I am sure Disney does the same justice to our Native Americans. [...] 18871 205 15_Fw: PLEASE HELP11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:31:52 -0700471_iso-8859-1 FW: PLEASE HELP

Subject: FW: PLEASE HELP



Subject: Help remove jewwatch from google's search engine please and pass on

When you google the word Jew this anti-semitic site comes up

http://www.jewwatch.com/

Add your name to the petition to remove

www.jewwatch.com from google's search engine. (Check out the site and you will understand why.)

Go to : http://www.petitiononline.com/rjw23/petition.html [...] 19077 125 15_Re: PLEASE HELP12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:09:45 -0700434_ascii Do you really want to step onto that slippery slope of Google censoring its searches? -Sharon



----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:31:52 PM Subject: Fw: PLEASE HELP







Subject: FW: PLEASE HELP



Subject: Help remove jewwatch from google's search engine please and pass on [...] 19203 1053 20_JTA - Jewish Priests16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:25:09 -0400399_us-ascii Bring back Sadducean rule! Down with Pharisaic rabbinism! Let's overthrow the meritocracy of achieved leadership for the machinations of ascription. First the temple, next the government. Once again exclusive control of the smoked meat market would be placed in the hands of the Cohen and Levi families. Isn't it enough that one of their number already has the monopoly on blue jeans? [...] 20257 66 8_big bang13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 12:40:36 EDT555_US-ASCII Pursuant to Sam's elegant explanation of the Einstein's general theory, I'd like to add one more thing about the Big Bang. We (i.e., a few very bright human beings, the cosmologists) can measure time back until ALMOST the very beginning...until something on the scale of billionths of a second after the presumed Big Bang. However, at the seminal moment of creation, the mathematics and physics -- that is, human logic/reason -- breaks down, and no longer works to describe what we think of as reality. That's still the cosmologic question. [...] 20324 200 12_Re: big bang11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:59:24 +0000556_us-ascii This guy in Finland, who's an atheist, that I talk to online came up with an interesting hypothesis somewhat based on something in one of Stephen Hawking's books. I told him that I'm agnostic, and the only thing that keeps me from being an atheist is that we don't know where the very basic elements (atoms, quarks, etc.) come from to do all these other things that science can and has explained away. He told me that my problem is that I'm thinking in 3 dimensions. He reminded me that time is relative, and that we are only experiencing it [...] 20525 30 24_Re: JTA - Jewish Priests12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 09:59:42 -0700596_ascii One could almost dismiss this as just another group of re-enacters, like people who recreate Civil War battles or hold jousting matches on the weekends, except for this bit:

A day was dedicated to presentations by the Temple Institute, a group that aims to rebuild the Holy Temple on the spot where a Muslim mosque now stands. .... "We want people to be exposed to what we're doing and transfer the feeling that this is not something mystical, it's for real," said Yehuda Glick, director general of the Temple Institute. "It's definitely not going to happen from heaven. We are [...] 20556 32 24_Re: JTA - Jewish Priests11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:16:24 -0400366_ISO-8859-1 That Muslim mosque could really throw a monkey wrench into the plans.-Sharon

Not at all. The more radical elements clearly plan to get it out of the way with some dynamite. When you see the long list of items that can't be carried onto the Temple Mount, it is clear that most of it is to prevent a sacrifice that would ignite a religious war. [...] 20589 464 12_Re: big bang11_Hank Kaplan16_hkmg@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:53:16 -0700594_us-ascii This argument seems to confuse epistemology and metaphysics. Metaphysics is the theory of all that exists, including all that has ever existed and all that will or may exist. Epistemology is the theory of how it is that we come to know anything.

Even if your entire ontology (i.e., your catalog of what exists) consists of a static space-time continuum with no God, the continuum is not simply a random jumble of events, if you accept the fact (as all physicists do) that events in the continuum can be connected by a relation of causation. We generally think of causation [...] 21054 283 12_Re: big bang11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:58:17 +0000581_us-ascii My whole point was getting out of the context of the space-time continuum...

----- Original Message ----- From: Hank Kaplan Date: Thursday, July 19, 2007 2:56 pm Subject: Re: big bang To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> This argument seems to confuse epistemology and metaphysics. > Metaphysics is > the theory of all that exists, including all that has ever > existed and all > that will or may exist. Epistemology is the theory of how it is > that we > come to know anything. > > Even if your entire ontology (i.e., your catalog of what exists) > consists of > [...] 21338 83 12_Re: big bang0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:55:27 -0400580_us-ascii





Pursuant to Sam's elegant explanation of the Einstein's general theory, I'd like to add one more thing about the Big Bang. We (i.e., a few very bright human beings, the cosmologists) can measure time back until ALMOST the very beginning...until something on the scale of billionths of a second after the presumed Big Bang. However, at the seminal moment of creation, the mathematics and physics -- that is, human logic/reason? -- breaks down, and no longer works to describe what we think of as reality. That's still the cosmologic question. [...] 21422 88 12_Re: big bang0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 17:02:23 -0400604_us-ascii











This guy in Finland, who's an atheist, that I talk to online came up with an interesting hypothesis somewhat based on something in one of Stephen Hawking's books. I told him that I'm agnostic, and the only thing that keeps me from being an atheist is that we don't know where the very basic elements (atoms, quarks, etc.) come from to do all these other things that science can and has explained away. He told me that my problem is that I'm thinking in 3 dimensions. He reminded me that time is relative, and that we are only experiencing it [...] 21511 351 12_Re: big bang11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:36:17 -0400755_us-ascii 2 questions:





1. What do you mean that Richard Dawkins "carries the atheist stuff too far?" 2. Define for me "spiritual."





JE





_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 5:02 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: big bang















This guy in Finland, who's an atheist, that I talk to online came up with an interesting hypothesis somewhat based on something in one of Stephen Hawking's books. I told him that I'm agnostic, and the only thing that keeps me from being an atheist is that we don't know where the very [...] 21863 320 15_Re: PLEASE HELP11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 18:46:46 -0700357_iso-8859-1 Sharon

Your comment has enough merit to make me stop and think about it. My answer for the moment is I dont know. I will probably swing your way. Gve me a couple of days.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:09 AM Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP [...] 22184 439 12_Re: big bang11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:47:25 -0400551_us-ascii I don't see any problem with Dawkins getting in people's faces and saying that he believes that the belief in God is a delusion. As he said in one of his documentaries, "We always have to tiptoe respectfully around religion." It's true. There really is an unspoken but very well understood rule that if somebody tells you that the earth was created in 6 days and is only 6000 years old, that you'd better damn well respect their beliefs. They have more freedom to get in your face and say, "No, this is what the Bible says," than you do [...] 22624 27 15_Re: PLEASE HELP12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 19 Jul 2007 23:26:30 -0400698_UTF-8 Another well-intentioned message that's years past its expiration date and a complete waste of time.

http://www.google.com/explanation.html

http://www.adl.org/rumors/google_search_rumors.asp

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/google.asp

David

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 22652 253 25_I wonder who this is for?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:05:23 +0300607_us-ascii Work Begins To Equip B-2 Bomber With Massive Penetrator Weapon URL of this article: http://www.defencetalk.com/news/publish/index.php Jul 20, 2007





Palmdale CA: The U.S. Air Force's B-2 stealth bomber would be able to attack and destroy an expanded set of hardened, deeply buried military targets using a new 30,000 pound-class penetrator weapon that Northrop Grumman has begun integrating on the aircraft. The company is doing the work under a seven-month, $2.5 million contract awarded June 1 by the Air Force's Aeronautical Systems Center, Wright Patterson AFB, Ohio. [...] 22906 603 12_Re: big bang11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Fri, 20 Jul 2007 17:10:21 +0000499_windows-1252 Let's keep this public so others can participate in the thread.

It seems like America is more accepting to religious people than atheists. You should watch this video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H48tFhpwD74 This is from an episode of 20/20. It's beyond unreal to me.

BTW Jews may not be big on afterlife, but they still believe it. An Orthodox Jew at work was saying that she doesn't get how I don't-- or how anybody doesn't-- believe in an afterlife. [...] 23510 250 12_Re: big bang12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 20 Jul 2007 14:41:51 -0700569_iso-8859-1 Julie- My question to you, then, is how do you explain the creativity of Beethoven, Bach, or Brahms, without soul?...Or how do you explain "compassion"???? I can't accept the belief that there is no "soul"--and I actually feel sorry for you if this is your true belief- Also...I have to tell you that the Maccabim existed and the story is probably partly true....If you truly believe we are really JUST electrical impulses, then all one would have to do to whack you would be to pour water over you! Like the Wickwed Witch of the West in "The Wizard of [...] 23761 285 12_Re: big bang11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Fri, 20 Jul 2007 18:12:43 -0400604_us-ascii This is what bothers me-- if I (or some other skeptic) says that they don't believe in some widely accepted supernatural thing, then they are immediately asked, "Well then how do you explain [insert subject here]?" As Dawkins has said, we don't have all the answers now, but we're working on it. As we study artificial intelligence in the upcoming years, I am sure these answers will be revealed to us-- how these electrical impulses translate into consciousness, etc. Compassion is one of those things developed in the evolutionary process to ensure the survival of the species. I am sure [...] 24047 227 75_Israel Accused of Blocking Commercial Satellite Imagery Deal with Venezuela13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 10:06:34 +0300520_us-ascii A look into the little known world of the satellite imaging business. Fascinating stuff. Jon



Israel Accused of Blocking Commercial Satellite Imagery Deal with Venezuela By Barbara Opall-Rome Space News Correspondent posted: 13 July 2007 01:56 pm ET



TEL AVIV, Israel - Israel's Ministry of Defense and some of the country's leading industry executives repeatedly squashed Venezuelan bids to buy high-resolution commercial satellite imagery. [...] 24275 27 12_Re: big bang12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 13:24:41 +0400582_ISO-8859-1 This is a long subject and one which in which I like to participate.

No one here has mentioned again the necessity of falsifiability. THIS is really the main reason why the question of supernatural and mystical issues like a "soul" SHOULD be dismissed.

Meir

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 24303 83 12_Re: big bang13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 07:33:28 EDT625_US-ASCII "the necessity of falsifiability"

Dear Meir,

Do you mean by this that if a proposition by its nature cannot be disproven, it must therefore be dismissed?

If so, while this is indeed a cogent argument, the very same issue arises and is used about Darwin. Natural selection can not be disproven. I am not prepared to reject natural selection on the basis of "the necessity of falsifiability." So, logic says that if one does not reject an argument on the basis of falsifiability (natural selection), one cannot use it reject a possibly less palatable notion (supernatural, soul, etc.) I once [...] 24387 436 8_big bang28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter20_habesor@SMILE.NET.IL31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 14:34:07 +0200604_Windows-1252 I have been following the discussion of physics and religion. A couple of years ago I decided to try to understand Einstein's theory of relativity. I read a couple of books about the topic written for non-physicists (sort of physics for the unwashed) and set out to understand something that was talked about by many but understood by few. I immersed myself in discussions about trains going in the same direction, balls being thrown through an elevator and signals being sent from one spaceship to another. All of these mind experiments appeared in the first few chapters of the books [...] 24824 54 12_Re: big bang12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 16:05:15 +0400328_ISO-8859-1 Yes . That IS what I mean although at present it IS contested.

Not by the theory of evolution.

The idea of genes that mutate which is the basis of the theory has been tested many times and COULD be found in a certain case to be NOT true. In all the tests made the theory has been shown to hold up. [...] 24879 244 24_Re: big bang--to Steve--12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 08:18:30 -0700431_iso-8859-1 WHEW! AND AMEN!!!-- What I admire is that you are able to admit, as was the pysicist who answered you, that there ARE things which can be "beyond" our understanding through science, including the possibility of the existence of a "aoul.".... Let em also bring up the fact that your admittance to "free will" also includes creativity....which is a huge element to me in our humanity...SHabbat SHalom, "chamudi"--sue [...] 25124 50 12_Re: big bang12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:23:31 +0300599_windows-1252 Meir "If you will it ... Periodically Habonet gets on a track and starts moving at whatever speed. That's because the wonderful thing about Habonet is that it's a reflection of a movement. Each of us comes at issues individually from our own life experience which occasionally coalesce toward common life expectations based on shared beliefs. I came upon this train of thought because of your mention of “falsifiability.” I admit I hadn’t come upon the notion before so I looked it up and found Karl Popper. That led me to Wittgenstein's Poker, a wonderful book by David Edmonds & [...] 25175 95 38_Re: big bang (on hiatus to August 4th)11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 14:39:27 -0400349_us-ascii We're going to have to put this thread on hold until August 4th. In a couple hours I'm leaving for the airport to fly to a camp in Michigan, Circle Pines Center (not too far from Tavor actually) to volunteer. I'll be back on August 4th, and then I'll be able to write thorough responses... so everybody hold their thoughts until then. [...] 25271 240 12_Re: big bang13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:40:33 EDT347_UTF-8 I would not wager to strongy that we will never have a cogent theory about the moment and creation and beyond. Sam,

Totally, absolutely agree with your entire letter. God knows (oops) it's more than interesting. One very small nitpick -- as I understand it, a problem with string-theory is that it is by its nature untestable... [...] 25512 39 12_Re: big bang12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 01:58:20 +0400418_ISO-8859-1 After I wrote my reply (above) I saw Steve's mention about string theory.

This is as yet NOT falsifiable , because we haven't thought of yet an experiment that would do that (as far as I know). This DOES challenge my point of view as I understand it. I still tend to accept string theory because of the beauty of it's explanatory powers and despite the VERY weird consequences that it leads to. [...] 25552 24 12_Re: big bang12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 01:59:39 +0400529_ISO-8859-1 Oops - hear not here. It seems that i'm not only obssesively brief but also careless. LOL

Meir

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 25577 92 21_Re: Big Bang - to Sue13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:21:12 EDT589_US-ASCII Julie- My question to you, then, is how do you explain the creativity of Beethoven, Bach, or Brahms, without soul?...

Dear Sue,

I once made up a myth.

"And God looked down, and He saw that Copernicus, Galileo and Newton had begun to unravel the secrets of Creation. God said: "Uh-Oh. Guns in the hands of children." God thought that He'd better do something quick to remind the hearts of humanity about what is Divine, what is Real. For without such a reminder, Humankind would surely destroy itself, and the Earth with it. And so, he gave the world His [...] 25670 1173 12_Re: big bang13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 19:50:38 -0400537_us-ascii Dear Sue,

I don't understand why you think composing beautiful music is some sort of proof of the existence of a soul, anymore than any other human endeavor is. It reminds me of a friend in jr hi who, when she heard of my being an agnostic, took me out outside in her backyard to see the trees and grass and flowers because to her this was absolute proof of God. If you don't believe, these "proofs" just seem ridiculous. As does your argument that if there is no soul we would "short-out" if we got wet. To me, the [...] 26844 85 35_Re: Big Bang - to Sue-to Steven....12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:22:47 -0700605_iso-8859-1 Damn right! Nice myth!!!!......:)----WHAT ABOUT YOU????....( can't you include yourself???)....ssssss





--- Steve Hancoff wrote:

> Julie- My question to you, then, is how do you > explain > the creativity of Beethoven, Bach, or Brahms, > without > soul?... > > Dear Sue, > > I once made up a myth. > > "And God looked down, and He saw that Copernicus, > Galileo and Newton had > begun to unravel the secrets of Creation. God said: > "Uh-Oh. Guns in the hands of > children." God thought that He'd better do something > quick to remind the hearts [...] 26930 257 24_Re: big bang--to Judy...12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 17:34:47 -0700573_iso-8859-1 Judy- I never negated science as an amazing and creative "part" of humanity's "soul" and I never said I totally believed in "God" either...I can also spit out thousands of examples of cruelty to animals, humanity,-- children, the world, but that isn't the point at all. The point I was trying to make is that EXACTLY that we can not negate "soul" we can neither proove or disprove, but we can not negate the power of creativity and the amazing art, literature, music that has come out of humanity which all generations "enjoy"- or get pleasure out of it or [...] 27188 83 14_Angelina Jolie11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 18:12:48 -0700393_iso-8859-1 There is a bunch of stuff going around the offices concerning some antisemitic/ anti-Israel remarks supposedly made recently by Angelina Jolie. The printed "quote" was supposed to be something about hating the American Fascist Government, hating the State if Israel, and how it should be completely obliterated together with "those people". There's more, but that is the gist. [...] 27272 236 56_Re: big bang--to Judy...Onre more thing about "soul"....12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 21 Jul 2007 20:38:24 -0700591_iso-8859-1 "Nefesh Yehudi homiyah..."--that's all I have to say...sue





--- Sue Liberman wrote:

> Judy- I never negated science as an amazing and > creative "part" of humanity's "soul" and I never > said > I totally believed in "God" either...I can also spit > out thousands of examples of cruelty to animals, > humanity,-- children, the world, but that isn't the > point at all. The point I was trying to make is that > EXACTLY that we can not negate "soul" we can neither > proove or disprove, but we can not negate the power > of > [...] 27509 57 56_Re: big bang--to Judy...Onre more thing about "soul"....12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 08:05:53 +0400573_ISO-8859-1 Some words about a "God":

1. It is obvious that no experiment can show that there is no "God". The idea of a God is NOT falsifiable, and therefore should be discarded. No use.

2. Those that DO believe in a "God" usually IMHO believe that this "God" is all - knowing and all - powerful. If this is so then this "God" is responsible for all the tragedies that occur. All the earthquakes, tsunamis, wars, famines, etc., etc. This "God" is ALSO responsible for all the shannigans of "Satan". Surely this "God" is more powerful and could stop this [...] 27567 303 47_NYT David Brooks on the soul among other things11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 09:13:16 -0400473_iso-8859-1

I don't agree with David Brooks much these days, but the first part of this article may contribute to the recent discussion of the nature of the soul on Habonet.

I believe the Douglas Hofstadter to whom he refers is the author of "Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid" which I found to be a fascinating read and may be of interest in the discussion of creativity and the nature of intelligence that is also part of the recent thread. [...] 27871 102 78_Re: big bang - you and I will never know; at least not in this physical vessel10_sefi dover19_sefidover@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 06:26:45 -0700509_iso-8859-1

"Man cannot see me and live." No finite being can completely understand "All That Is". But if we give our intuitive (spiritual) natures some credit (which many of us have sound basis for doing), it's not that big a leap to hope/theorize that when we die our consciousness' might transmigrate to the infinite (or spirit) realm where "All That Is" might be "experienced". (I say "experienced" rather than "understood" because it's bound to involve more than just an intellectual sense.) [...] 27974 1340 16_Orthodox Paradox13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:31:44 -0400659_iso-8859-1 This is posted by Roz Barland's request as belonging to the "big bang" thread. The original article can be found at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/magazine/22yeshiva-t.html?pagewanted=all



Orthodox Paradox

By Noah Feldman A number of years ago, I went to my 10th high-school reunion, in the backyard of the one classmate whose parents had a pool. Lots of my classmates were there. Almost all were married, and many already had kids. This was not as unusual as it might seem, since I went to a yeshiva day school, and nearly everyone remained Orthodox. I brought my girlfriend. At the end, we all crowded into a [...] 29315 232 22_"Confessions"--to Noam12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:03:02 -0700541_iso-8859-1 In March, 1997, I had been in Las Vegas for a few weeks, tending to my boss's older parents: her mother had suffered a stroke, and her father needed a little help in the house. It was supposed to be a "temporary arrangement" until Beverly- the talent agent-could find a nurse. I had to be there basically 24/7- And only on Wednesday evenings, did I get a break. I was taken to dinner by my boss's aunt-at the buiffet at Sam's Town, a casino which is "off the strip"- and then I would play the nickel poker machines with $20- [...] 29548 251 12_Re: big bang16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 10:55:52 -0700569_WINDOWS-1252 Steve- love all the idea you've expressed on this thread-beautifully articulated- am in total agreement-LInda On Jul 21, 2007, at 2:40 PM, Steve Hancoff wrote:

> I would not wager to strongy that we will never have a cogent > theory about the moment and creation and beyond. Sam, > > Totally, absolutely agree with your entire letter. God knows (oops) > it's more than interesting. One very small nitpick -- as I > understand it, a problem with string-theory is that it is by its > nature untestable... > > What I admire is that you are able > [...] 29800 20 72_Israeli Text for Arabs Refers to 1948 =?windows-1252?Q?=91Catast?= rophe17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 22 Jul 2007 17:28:54 -0500502_windows-1252 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/world/middleeast/22cnd-mideast.html?hp

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 29821 256 77_Re: Israeli Text for Arabs Refers to 1948 =?windows-1252?Q?=91?= Catast rophe12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:01:38 +0300643_windows-1252 The NY Times Article “Israeli Text for Arabs Refers to 1948 ‘Catastrophe’ leaves out some interesting background but first some comments on the present piece. “the Hebrew version of the third-grade book does not include the Palestinian version of the events of 1948. Ms. Fenig said that while the Arabic translation was adjusted to address Arab sensitivities and culture, Jewish third graders were considered too young to cope with the conflicting narratives." Are the readers supposed to assume that third grade Jewish Israeli’s are less able to cope with the updated narrative than Arab third graders? The problems are not [...] 30078 279 77_Re: Israeli Text for Arabs Refers to 1948 =?windows-1252?Q?=91?= Catast rophe13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:48:09 -0400395_windows-1252 Consider the current alternative: Arab Israeli children are being taught a version of events that is in direct contradiction to what they learn at home and in the community. "El Naqba" is how Independence Day is referred to inthe Arab commnuities. By the time kids are 9 or 10 they have certainly heard that term and so the textbook is referring to wht they already know. Judy [...] 30358 1845 20_Re: Orthodox Paradox12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:55:18 +0300402_iso-8859-1 Orthodox Paradox is well wrtiten, mostly right on the mark, and I feel the author's pain at having been rejected. Having said that I have just two comments. It would have been funnier if both his mother and his father were physicians (orthodox pair of docs.) But subtantively there's only one consideration he left out - what Orthodoxy is all about is control. I'm for hetrodoxy. Amnon [...] 32204 80 12_Re: big bang0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 09:50:06 -0400696_us-ascii













What pure science has unearthed basically since on the one hand Newton and on the other Darwin is just so much more interesting. Faith introduces inner conflict in a person between belief and reason. I can't think of any benefit to introducing inner conflict. I believe that in your profession, Sam, such conflict is thought to be the basis of the formation of neurosis. I believe we are now living in a time of civilizational neurosis pounding up against civilizational neurosis, moving out of control toward psychosis...parallel armagedon mythologies. When you blithely write things like ..."14 billion years..." that's way [...] 32285 1619 28_Fw: Faculty Forum 2007-07-2211_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:12:58 -0700559_iso-8859-1

An update on the SPME petition

Steve















Promoting Academic Integrity and Honest Debate



SPME Faculty Forum 2007-07-22

SPME News

32 Nobel Laureates, 45 University and Foundation Presidents and Nearly 10,000 Academics and Professionals Endorse Anti- British Academic Boycott of Israel Statement as SPME Network Approaches 18,000 Harvey Risch, Yale University - Exclusive to Scholars for Peace in the Middle East Faculty Forum - July 23, 2007 [...] 33905 252 12_Re: big bang0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 11:15:33 -0400589_us-ascii



?



The following is the response I received from Professor Greene:

?



The important point is that material objects can't ever quite reach the speed of light (due to their ever increasing mass with velocity). So, taking a light-speed perspective is unphysical. Having said that, it is still amusing to contemplate this unphysical perspective. Indeed, one does find if one proceeds uncritically that at light speed durations go to zero ("time stops") and distances shrink to zero. But you must take this with a grain of salt. [...] 34158 4005 95_Fw: =?windows-1255?Q?=FA=F8=E5=EE=E5=FA_=EC=FA=E9=F0=E5=F7=FA_=E7=E5=EC=FA_=EC=E5=F7=EE=E9=E4?=11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:33:57 -0700623_windows-1255 Forwarding for what looks like a worthy cause.

Steve



Subject: FW: úøåîåú ìúéðå÷ú çåìú ìå÷îéä













--------------------------------------------------------------------------------









This was checked out and found to be true. These blood donations are always needed since there is always a shortage.













áã÷úé àú äîéãò - ìà ø÷ ùäåà ðëåï, àìà ùúøåîú èñéåú ãí, äðãøùú áî÷øä æä, úåëì ìòæåø ááé"ç ùðééãø âí ìàçø äçìîú äúéðå÷ú, îëéåï ùéù îçñåø ÷áåò... [...] 38164 275 54_Re: Orthodox Paradox= A couple of personal stories....12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:23:42 -0700568_iso-8859-1 Tonight is erev Tisha' B'AV- so for the past nine days, the Ashkenazi Orthodox community has not eaten meat ( except for Sephardim)..So last night, in order to celebrate Avi's ( my son's) birthday, we all agreed to meet in his neighborhood- which is the Pico-Robertson area of LA..in which there are a lot fo kosher eatries. Many of them were closed ( meat)- but one, called "Milk and Honey"- a dairy place was open, so we made reservations for 6:30. We arrived on time, along with Micha, Elyssa and Max, my 3 year-old grandson. I have NEVER seen such [...] 38440 6463 36_Fw: FOR PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT ISRAEL11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 08:31:55 -0700505_windows-1255

Forwarding this for a friend. (And it seems a good concept).

Steve















Subject: FOR PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT ISRAEL





NEWSLETTER #11

THE FRIENDLY STING Presented by

The Voice of CONCERNED OPTIMISTS in Israel

July 2007





If you want to be taken off our mailing list please click here dan-dob@zahav.net.il and type: "DON'T SEND." or phone Rafi 02-6422347 [...] 44904 78 8_Sad News0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:20:44 EDT323_US-ASCII Rose Mayers has died. She was the mother of two Habonetters, Ellen Ginsburg Caplan (Emabear) and Janet Weisberger (Yentateleb), and my great-aunt in every sense of the word. She was a life-long Zionist and long time member of Na'amat, as well as a supporter of Cincinnati Ken Degania via its Chai Commission. [...] 44983 37 46_Joseph Bernhardt z"l husband of Miriam Ezekiel19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:39:16 -0400 45021 195 37_Re: Israeli Text for Arabs Refers ...12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:43:17 +0300624_windows-1252 Haverot/im In the decades before Israel's Ministry of Education took notice that the matriculation requirements for Arab students really ought not be just a replica of the curriculum for Jewish high school pupils, Bialik's poetry was standard fare. And like their Jewish opposite numbers Arab students were tested on his “If You Would Know”, (Im Yesh et Nafshecha La’daat.) It’s final stanza below, reminds me of the colonial insensitivity of the British educational system in India . Kipling comes to mind. (Take up the White Man's burden--/ Send forth the best ye breed--/ Go bind your sons to exile/ To [...] 45217 1009 18_Fw: perspective...11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 24 Jul 2007 21:54:35 -0700389_iso-8859-1



Subject: perspective...



The New York Times carried a review of a film called "Hot House " that goes inside Israeli prisons and examines the lives of Palestinian prisoners. We're not recommending the film or the review . But we do want to share our feelings with you about the beaming female face that adorns the article. You can see it here. [...] 46227 143 44_Fw: Hava Nagila - The Best You've Ever Heard11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 24 Jul 2007 22:11:04 -0700347_iso-8859-1 AOL Email This is one of the most fun sites I've ever been on. After the performance, click over to the "Dayenu"!

Steve







Turn up your sound - Sit back - and Enjoy this thrilling orchestration of Hava Nagila.

Look at the expressions on the faces of the audience as well as the musicians. [...] 46371 658 45_Fw: You don't have to be Jewish, but it helps11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:15:24 -0700666_UTF-8













BEAT THIS! Steve



Click on any song title to play.



Ai D-Dai-Da And the Angels Sing Al Jolson - Hatikvah Al Jolson - Kol Nidre Anniversary Waltz - Jan Peerce Avinu Malkenu Barbara Streisand - Avinu Malkeinu Barry sisters - a byssele Barry sisters - Bei mir bistu shain Barry sisters - Channa From Havanna Barry sisters - chiribim chiribom Barry sisters - Coney Island Barry sisters - dem neyem sher Barry sisters - Eishes Chiyell Barry sisters - Fargess mich nit Barry sisters - hava nagila Barry sisters - Hevaynu Shalom Alaychem Barry sisters - hopkele Barry sisters - [...] 47030 254 67_Fw: [House-of-humor] Can you recognize all of these famous ladies ?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:32:39 -0700669_iso-8859-1

File this under "Special". Besides, I think one or two may be Jewish.

Steve



It's been a while since I've smiled so wide and so long.







Click here: Various & Sundry - Women In Film





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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 47285 81 18_Dan Waldman invite13_Joel Winograd15_mail@JELACO.COM31_Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:34:25 -0500511_UTF-8 Hi all,

Dan Waldman is not on Habonet, but he asked me to forward the following. (the Hebrew lettering in the invitation may come out as odd lettering, depending on your system config)

Regards, Joel Winograd ------------------

Dear Chevreh,

It has been many years since I was on workshop (20th) and even more since. I started in Habonim in Winnipeg. My parents were on Hachshara, my uncle organized Habonim in Vancouver in the 40s, and my sister was on the 16th workshop. [...] 47367 2079 30_The New Yorker on Avraham Burg16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:24:47 -04001159_ISO-8859-1 The New Yorker



Letter from Jerusalem



The Apostate



A Zionist politician loses faith in the future.



by David Remnick July 30, 2007



"People are not willing to admit it, but Israel has reached the wall," Avrum Burg says.

Related Links Audio: David Remnick on Avraham Burg and Israel.

Keywords Burg, Avraham ; Israel, Israelis ; Ha'aretz ; "Defeating Hitler" ; Controversies ; Shavit, Ari ; Interviews [...] 49447 1572 45_TNR - Benny Morris on Six Day War Revisionism16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:34:42 -0400638_us-ascii The New Republic Online



Provocations

by Benny Morris Post date: 07.25.07 Issue date: 07.23.07

1967: Israel, the War, and the Year That Transformed the Middle East By Tom Segev Translated by Jessica Cohen (Metropolitan Books, 673 pp., $35) Click here to purchase the book.

Foxbats over Dimona: The Soviets' Nuclear Gamble in the Six-Day War By Isabella Ginor and Gideon Remez (Yale University Press, 287 pp., $26) Click here to purchase the book. [...] 51020 103 48_A Spur to the Israeli-Palestinian Peace Process?16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:27:21 -0700671_iso-8859-1 THE HAMAS TAKEOVER OF GAZA: A SPUR TO THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN PEACE PROCESS?



by

Dr. Robert O. Freedman



The Hamas seizure of power in Gaza in early June 2007 may, paradoxically, have rejuvenated the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, By restricting Hamas, which refuses to recognize Israel or make peace with it, to Gaza, it now becomes possible for Israel to reach an agreement with Hamas' rival,the Fatah Party of Mahmoud Abbas, which currently controls the West Bank and is committed to peace with Israel. Indeed if Fatah can demonstrate that under its leadership the West Bank can make rapid economic and political [...] 51124 111 49_Re: TNR - Benny Morris on Six Day War Revisionism13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:53:14 -0400618_iso-8859-1 Thanks, Elihu, for posting this. Benny Morris' conversion from left to right gets once more confirmed without contest (to my mind only, of course), and in the political turmoil that is being created by these two books within Jewish and Israeli academia (which is always mainly about just that, namely politics, not truth or knowledge), I will declare myself firmly on Tom Seguev's side, not on Morris's or Guinor's. And who cares, since I don't even really belong within any conventional boundaries of "academia?" It was all fascinating reading, nonetheless, to my mind. [I also don't think it is mere [...] 51236 34 118_Protest Knesset Bill Which Discriminates Against Israel's Arab Citizens Leasing Land - Make Petitions at Petition Spot13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:51:13 -0400394_ISO-8859-1 Chevreh-

The Knesset recently passed the first reading on a bill that would make it legitimate for the Israeli Land Authority, a government agency, to discriminate against non-Jews in leasing land. This isn't the way a democratic country should operate.

You can make your opposition to this legislation known by signing the petition you'll find at the link below. [...] 51271 191 49_Re: TNR - Benny Morris on Six Day War Revisionism13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:53 +0300552_us-ascii Yes, who cares about the truth of what really happened, a long as we (and Segev) can distort history to suit our contemporary prejudices? To declare yourself on Segev's side Yuval is to place yourself on the side of unthinking historical mendaciousness. Good luck with that.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Yuval Warshai Sent: Friday, July 27, 2007 1:53 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: TNR - Benny Morris on Six Day War Revisionism [...] 51463 83 37_Samuel M. Kelman invites you to Plaxo16_Samuel M. Kelman20_samkelman@BEPURE.COM31_Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:50:19 -0000386_us-ascii Samuel M. Kelman uses the Plaxo smart address book service and is inviting you to join.

Samuel M. Kelman says:

Plaxo is a neat service. It allows you to access Outlook (your contact list and calendar) on line. thus you have them even when you are away from your computer. It also updates changes in contacts who belong automatically. Finally it is free. Sam [...] 51547 77 49_Re: TNR - Benny Morris on Six Day War Revisionism13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 27 Jul 2007 05:34:21 -0700495_iso-8859-1 We all know what side of the political spectrum you're on in these matters and what side of it I am on. This is again, all just politics, as I said to begin with. There is not one Truth as such in this type of historical matters, that are so close to our own reality and immediate live interests. Again, this is not a matter of 'luck' or of truth. It is simply a political matter. That is why I am with Seguev, and why you and your friends and allies get so upset... ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 51625 237 21_My Heart on my Sleeve12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 28 Jul 2007 23:13:21 +0300571_windows-1252

On my way to gym this morning I had what James Joyce might have called a secular epiphany. The gym is in Kibbutz Ramat Rahel which was at the southernmost tip of Jerusalem until 1967 when the border “ran away” to the south so it could enclose what later would become the humongous neighborhoods of Gilo and Har Homah. Ramat Rahel is as old as I am. Since 1929 it was over-run and burnt down several times by it’s neighbors and almost captured by the Jordanian and Egyptian armies vying with each other to liberate Jerusalem from the Zionists in [...] 51863 121 25_Re: My Heart on my Sleeve12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:22:04 -0700579_iso-8859-1 Yeah, Amnon--at least you had a chance to talk to the shomer; he didn't blow you up!.....And you both are right--and that is the sad part-- What do you think Iran is doing now;.....Everyone is so lofty--You wear your philosphy on a T-shirt; I don't think that there is any soul ( and I use that term loosely) in Israel who wouldn't want peace; however--getting there is another story...and the concept of peace is not really part of the Palestinian code* at least not part of Hamas, or Ahmadinajad's, or Assad's or the guy in Lebanon)........when it is, then you [...] 51985 85 42_Fw: program about anit-semitism in Britain11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:48:16 -0700610_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 7:18 PM Subject: Fw: program about anit-semitism in Britain







Subject: Fw: program about anit-semitism in Britain



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxQixGqOdcc

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 52071 77 10_Statistics12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:46:28 +0300328_windows-1252

Haverim/ot Sitting in Café Kaffit on Jerusalem’s Emek Reffaim street today, a man whose statistics I trust tells me that forty percent of first grade pupils in Jerusalem this fall will be ultra-orthodox Jews, twenty two percent will be Arabs and the rest will be like us. Is it time to start worrying? [...] 52149 149 14_Re: Statistics0_13_jlcaa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:05:50 -0400368_utf-8 Amnon: I heard similar numbers from a close friend a few weeks ago after you and I had dinner. He said that roughly 60% of Israeli high school students were not zionists. That is, they were either Haredim or (Christian or Muslim)Arab. My friend was quite worried about the consequences for the zionist dream. We may, he concluded, have already lost. Avi [...] 52299 66 14_Re: Statistics12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:07:38 -0700558_iso-8859-1 If you take notice of the amazing inordinate numbers of chevre making aliyah becasue of Nefesh B'Nefesh- you will also see that they are mostly dati, and mostly inhabiting places like Ramat Bet Shemesh, Bet Shemesh, and Chashmonaim.--Jerusaalem suburbs--..I would like to know how much aliyah "pushiing" is going on in the un-dati- tnuot- and how connected they are with Nefesh B'nefesh--I have also heard that many non-dati are leaving Jerusalem becuase it is becoming too "orthodox"...I don't know if that is a case for worry or not....sue [...] 52366 117 26_Re: Statistics--correction12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:17:58 -0700651_iso-8859-1 I recently had the honor to view some student films produced by chevre in Cabri--and I was a little "shocked" at the material--mostly about subjects relating to normal "high-school" angst- but then there were some, actually very well done, relating to prostitution, the negative effects of the failing kibbut sytems, love, lesbianism/friendship/ cynical ones about the Tanach, etc...I would probably not be too "incorrect" to say that iin the rush to be like everyone else, somewhere aloong the line, the uniquness of Israel has been lost to the youth....(Mention "Zionism" and it is like mentioning a dirty word)..and the educational [...] 52484 131 44_Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:19:39 -0700661_iso-8859-1 ???????????????????

--- "Shamash The Jewish Network LISTSERV Server (15.0)" wrote:

> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:07:49 -0400 > From: "Shamash The Jewish Network LISTSERV Server > (15.0)" > Subject: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > To: Sue Liberman > > Your message is being returned to you unprocessed > because it appears to have > already been distributed to the HABONET list. That > is, a message with identical > text (but possibly with different mail headers) > has been posted to the list > recently, either by you or by someone else. If you > have [...] 52616 44 48_Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:09:57 -0400722_us-ascii Sue,

The message certainly reached the list, so I'm not really sure what this indicates occurred. Perhaps you clicked send twice and two copies were sent? Check your "sent mail" folder and see if there are two copies.

Noam

---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:19:39 -0700 >From: Sue Liberman >Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >??????????????????? > >--- "Shamash The Jewish Network LISTSERV Server >(15.0)" wrote: > >> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:07:49 -0400 >> From: "Shamash The Jewish Network LISTSERV Server >> (15.0)" >> Subject: Rejected posting to [...] 52661 157 14_Re: Statistics11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:42:38 -0600351_iso-8859-1 Amnon,

Herzl: "If you will it, it is no dream." Joni Mitchell: "It was just a dream some of us had." Louis Armstrong: "Let's call the whole thing off."

As to your question "and the rest will be like us. Is it time to start worrying?" ... as Tonto said to the surrounded Lone Ranger, "What do you mean by 'us' White Man?" [...] 52819 77 48_Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:16:48 -0700596_iso-8859-1 Nope- only the once--- pretty weird- I thought I was thrown off becuase of my alte kaker views!!!--:) --- Noam Stopak wrote:

> Sue, > > The message certainly reached the list, so I'm not > really sure what this indicates occurred. Perhaps > you clicked send twice and two copies were sent? > Check your "sent mail" folder and see if there are > two copies. > > Noam > > ---- Original message ---- > >Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 13:19:39 -0700 > >From: Sue Liberman > >Subject: Fwd: Rejected posting to > HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >To: [...] 52897 31 20_To Amnon- English???12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:24:10 -0700387_iso-8859-1 Hi Amnon- according ot this sentence, Herzl's mother had a wife!.... (English 101- pronouns refer to the nearest noun)--Maybe that's why is kids were all screwed up!!! ( I don't mean to make fun of tragedy--but it's late at work, and I am "pooped"--and it's only Monday!):

" Herzl had a strong attachment to his mother, who was unable to get along with his wife." [...] 52929 109 48_Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:15:36 -0400570_iso-8859-1 For the last time, I hope, please rest assured that when the listserv sends these kinds of messages, or warns that a member will be removed from the list due to returned messages, it has nothing, NOTHING to do with who the member is or what types of messages they send to the list. These messages are automatically generated by the software run by Shamash. The list managers, while we try to keep a handle on the worst of the destructive behavior here, have never, to my knowledge and experience, EVER, removed anyone from the list except at the request [...] 53039 52 24_Re: To Amnon- English???13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:21:35 -0400583_ISO-8859-1 It says "his" wife, so if you are correct that the sentence means the wife was the wife of Herzl's mother, then Herzl's mother was man. Herzel was way ahead of his time in many ways. Judy

Sue Liberman wrote:

>Hi Amnon- according ot this sentence, Herzl's mother >had a wife!.... (English 101- pronouns refer to the >nearest noun)--Maybe that's why is kids were all >screwed up!!! ( I don't mean to make fun of >tragedy--but it's late at work, and I am "pooped"--and >it's only Monday!): > >" Herzl had a strong attachment to his mother, who was >unable [...] 53092 128 48_Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:27:32 -0400552_ISO-8859-1 I think Susie was joking. Judy

Noam Stopak wrote:

> For the last time, I hope, please rest assured that when the listserv > sends these kinds of messages, or warns that a member will be removed > from the list due to returned messages, it has nothing, NOTHING to do > with who the member is or what types of messages they send to the > list. These messages are automatically generated by the software run > by Shamash. The list managers, while we try to keep a handle on the > worst of the destructive behavior here, have [...] 53221 148 48_Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:41:26 -0400621_iso-8859-1 Like the last time when she accused the list managers of threatening (falsely) to throw Steve off the list and others piled on? Gets old.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Gelman" To: Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG



>I think Susie was joking. > Judy > > Noam Stopak wrote: > >> For the last time, I hope, please rest assured that when the listserv >> sends these kinds of messages, or warns that a member will be removed >> from the list due to returned messages, it has [...] 53370 72 33_JessicasProject for Breast Cancer11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:02:27 -0500586_us-ascii Hi All,

Many of you know Warren Brand, Tavornik from the mid 70's. His daughter, Jessica, is an accomplished composer and pianist, even taking classes at Northwestern University despite being only 12 years old. As her Bat Mitzvah project, she is working to raise money for breast cancer research. She has produced a CD of her own music to raise money as part of that effort. Please take a a moment to take a look at her web site at and pass it along to everyone you can think of who might be interested in supporting her. The music [...] 53443 177 48_Re: Fwd: Rejected posting to HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 30 Jul 2007 23:26:54 -0700294_iso-8859-1 Noam

I for one am appreciative of the efforts you've expended to keep Habonet going, and for its creation in the first place. It has, believe it or not, enriched me in more ways than one, and has provided a great deal of enjoyment that could not be gotten any other way. [...] 53621 119 37_Re: JessicasProject for Breast Cancer13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 07:59:33 -0400565_us-ascii The URL didn't work for me. Judy

David Ferri wrote:

> Hi All, > Many of you know Warren Brand, Tavornik from the mid 70's. His > daughter, Jessica, is an accomplished composer and pianist, even > taking classes at Northwestern University despite being only 12 years > old. As her Bat Mitzvah project, she is working to raise money for > breast cancer research. She has produced a CD of her own music to > raise money as part of that effort. Please take a a moment to take a > look at her web site at and [...] 53741 104 37_Re: JessicasProject for Breast Cancer11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 08:49:22 -0500608_us-ascii Hi Judy,

I just tried it and it works fine for me. I don't know what to tell you.

Regards, David

At 7:59 -0400 7/31/07, Judith Gelman wrote: >The URL didn't work for me. >Judy > >David Ferri wrote: > >>JessicasProject for Breast Cancer >>Hi All, >> >>Many of you know Warren Brand, Tavornik from the mid 70's. His >>daughter, Jessica, is an accomplished composer and pianist, even >>taking classes at Northwestern University despite being only 12 >>years old. As her Bat Mitzvah project, she is working to raise >>money for breast cancer research. She has produced a CD of [...] 53846 120 14_Re: Statistics0_15_ronoren@AOL.COM31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:58:21 -0400589_us-ascii

Here in Los Angeles it's hard not to be bitter, with 300,000 Israelis - mostly young - driven by their goal to make as much money as fast as possible. In general, their attitude of ..."I've been here for 5 minutes and I already know much more than you..." has alienated many in the Jewish community. I recently spoke with one young man -he's been here 6 months- who was completely befuddled when I mentioned that 99% of my rather large family contingent in Israel have remained since their parents/grandparents made Aliyah in the Fifties or Sixties. He struggled for [...] 53967 135 14_Re: Statistics12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 10:26:41 -0700536_iso-8859-1 This past Sunday I was swimming in our condo pool and "socializing" with an Israeli guy who was there with his daughter. He and his brother did all of the gardeing for the new Bahai in Haifa, and then decided to come here and make their fortune; his explanation to me about leaving was that he needed to get away from all fo the pressure. From the days of being in the Tzavah--he felt always "pressure" as did his wife who as "keva" ( he is in his thirties)..and wanted to have less for his children; I explained that I [...] 54103 49 28_European vs. Israeli Driving16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:44:27 -0400464_us-ascii http://www.chekroun.org/israelfany.swf

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 54153 92 32_Re: European vs. Israeli Driving14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:08:49 +0200530_iso-8859-1 Elihu - what was this - I got to someone's wedding site. Carmi ----- Original Message ----- From: Elihu D. Davison To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 8:44 PM Subject: European vs. Israeli Driving



http://www.chekroun.org/israelfany.swf ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. [...] 54246 119 14_Re: Statistics12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 22:25:04 +0300589_windows-1252

Phil, you wrote



>As to your question "and the rest will be like us. Is it time to start worrying?" ... as >Tonto said to the surrounded Lone Ranger, "What do you mean by 'us' White Man?"

Looks like a blooper, sounds like one too but was meant innocuously. Arabs and Haredim pay little taxes if at all. They do not serve in the IDF, exhibit no mercy to the “other” use religion to exclude everyone else and beyond the pale, find the notion of the brother/sisterhood of human beings as anathema. Humanistic notions they find to be the beliefs [...] 54366 58 37_Re: JessicasProject for Breast Cancer11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:28:01 EDT517_US-ASCII What a worthwhile project forf all of us to support. Sylvia Lask





************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 54425 80 33_Re: Statistics-an honest question12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:10:29 -0700579_iso-8859-1 AMnon- How on the one hand can you promote "Shalom Achshav"--and then equate the Arabs with the haredim in all these negative things.....sounds like stereotyping to me...sue



--- amnon hadary wrote:

> > Phil, you wrote > > > >As to your question "and the rest will be like us. > Is it time to start worrying?" ... as >Tonto said > to the surrounded Lone Ranger, "What do you mean by > 'us' White Man?" > > Looks like a blooper, sounds like one too but was > meant innocuously. Arabs and Haredim pay little > taxes if [...]