1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet January 2007 2 204 5_Aging11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 1 Jan 2007 10:16:42 -0800289_iso-8859-1 For all you aging Habonimniks out there, this one is a pip.

??? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?? ?????

??? ???? ?? ?? ???? 45 ??????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???. ?? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ????. ?? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ????? ??? ???????. [...] 207 22 19_Sad news from Phila11_carol shore21_c_shore@IX.NETCOM.COM30_Mon, 1 Jan 2007 19:04:51 -0500439_UTF-8 Julie Morganstern asked that I pass this information on about the passing of her dad David (Bubbele) Morganstern this past saturday. David was a great friend of Camp Galil as part of the founding fathers and a friend of Philadelphia Labor Zionism. Shiva will be at his daughter's home Myra Rios 15 Mather St. in Broomall, PA at 7 pm through Thurs. Mather is just west of 476 and rt 3 interchange. Baruch Dayan Emet, Steve Shore [...] 230 815 51_Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:00:31 -0800288_iso-8859-1 Sharon

Please spare me the tedium of your criticism. I had hoped that at least the first day of the New Year would be serene, and it still can be.

Ask me again tomorrow. I might be in the mood to do whatever battle you people enjoy. Or just ask nicer today. [...] 1046 68 18_Dibnis/ Goldwasser11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:08:10 -0800529_iso-8859-1 My sincere condolances to the family of Monique Dibnis/ Frenhaut/ Goldwasser (11th Workshop 1961) on the passing of her mother Miriam.

Miriam was a rare "Eshet Chail", a true Woman of Valor.

Steve



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 1115 810 21_Fw: Fw: Bon Appetit !11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:14:53 -0800551_iso-8859-1

A Bisseleh Yiddish for those forgetting.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Fw: Bon Appetit !





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 1926 534 51_Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 1 Jan 2007 17:17:26 -0800592_ascii Yes, I suppose it can be tedious to be asked to explain oneself. So much more fun to just toss the bs out and let it land on passersby. Don't forget that "Delete" key, Steve, it can be a life-saver. Happy New Year, Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 1, 2007 5:00:31 PM Subject: Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers DIV { MARGIN:0px;} Sharon Please spare me the tedium of your criticism. I had hoped that at least the first day of the New Year would be serene, and it still [...] 2461 119 31_Ford praise. I beg your pardon?11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:15:11 -0700638_iso-8859-1 Our Short National Nightmare How President Ford managed to go soft on Iraqi Baathists, Indonesian fascists, Soviet Communists, and the shah … in just two years. By Christopher Hitchens Posted Friday, Dec. 29, 2006, at 2:08 PM ET

One expects a certain amount of piety and hypocrisy when retired statesmen give up the ghost, but this doesn't excuse the astonishing number of omissions and misstatements that have characterized the sickly national farewell to Gerald Ford. One could graze for hours on the great slopes of the massive obituaries and never guess that during his mercifully brief occupation of the White [...] 2581 93 27_Say NO To Bush's Last Stand11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 10:17:02 -0700638_us-ascii THE FASTEST WAY TO BRING TO TROOPS HOME FROM IRAQ IS TO IMPEACH BUSH

IMPEACHMENT ACTION PAGE: http://www.peaceteam.net/impeachment_now2.php

Before the coming of George Bush and his shadow president Dick Cheney, the greatest military blunder in American History was thought to be Custer's Last Stand. It did not take a lot of hindsight to know that general Custer's vain assault on a much larger force of better-armed native Americans would come to no good end. His own turncoat Indian scouts told him the encampment at Little Bighorn was far too large to be attacked. They were changing back into their native [...] 2675 54 4_edge13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:51:14 EST576_US-ASCII It's not my habit to send other peoples' writings to the list, but just this once:

www.edge.org.

Might find it fruitful...

Steven

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 2730 63 31_Re: Say NO To Bush's Last Stand13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 17:08:56 -0500493_iso-8859-1 If Americans were not able to impede the Bush right-wing reactionary neo-con unconstitutional grab of power in 2002, were not able to deter the Bush Administration's rush to invade Iraq unilaterally and illegally in 2003, were unable to avoid George Bush's reelection to the Presidency of the US for a second term in 2006, it seems to me very doubtfull they will now manage to reverse the trend and repair the damage before the next Presidential Elections in November of 2008. [...] 2794 138 35_Re: Ford praise. I beg your pardon?17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:15:47 -0600608_windows-1252 How nice. Chris Hitchens, who has consistently defended the Bush Administration and it's Iraq War misadventures, and who supported the re-election of George W. just two months ago, wants to attack Gerald Ford. He is obviously a man of sound judgment. Shawn

Phil Safier wrote:

> Our Short National Nightmare > How President Ford managed to go soft on Iraqi Baathists, Indonesian > fascists, Soviet Communists, and the shah … in just two years. > By Christopher Hitchens > Posted Friday, Dec. 29, 2006, at 2:08 PM ET > > One expects a certain amount of piety and hypocrisy when [...] 2933 158 35_Re: Ford praise. I beg your pardon?11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 19:39:14 -0700329_iso-8859-1 G_d nose I have real problems with His Royal Hitchness, but ad hominem attacks aside... St. Christopher makes some good points. Ol Gerry has some serious splainin to do, specially for Timor. He also has played key roles in several major coverups. Just another cog in the criminal enterprise as far as I can tell. [...] 3092 1015 51_Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 18:56:56 -0800513_iso-8859-1 OK Sharon, it is now the evening of the 2nd.

Where were we? Oh yes- the question raised about the CAIR training manual.

You are so perceptive! There was more than meets the eye, tho I was not making aspersions or accusations- yet. What I am curious about, really, going on previous CAIR literature and statements, is whether the inside of the manual reflects the title, which even you will admit, includes the concept of "responsibilities". I really want to be pleasantly surprised. [...] 4108 181 35_Re: Ford praise. I beg your pardon?17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 20:57:39 -0600351_windows-1252 Yup. Jerry wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but he was a decent man of moderation in an era of relative collegial bi-partisanship. As for the sh-t going down in those days both parties share equal responsibility. But why is Hitchens of all people jumping on poor Jerry Ford while he is still warm in his casket? He is an ass. [...] 4290 171 16_Re: Arab science0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 22:54:12 -0500820_us-ascii You mean you didn't know that? Dennis



-----Original Message----- From: jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 2:06 PM Subject: Arab science



http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=545wmv&ak=null





The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. [...] 4462 101 6_Church11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 2 Jan 2007 21:59:57 -0800643_iso-8859-1 The following is an article from last Sunday's LA Times, dateline Ohio. It defies credulity and decency. I sincerely hope people will stop supporting these insitutionalized child molesters and demand from the Vatican a much-needed cleaning-up of their act.



"SUSPENDED PRIEST RETURNS TO MINISTRY"

"The Vatican has reinstated a priest suspended in 2002over allegations of sexual misconduct and will allow him to return to active ministry after undergoing counseling, the Archdiocese of Cincinnati said. .. . . . . . . . The Vatican. . ruled the [victims] waited too long . . . for making such accusations." [...] 4564 130 49_Scott Ritter Book: Israel, Lobby Pushing Iran War11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:44:30 -0700719_us-ascii Book: Israel, Lobby Pushing Iran War

http://www.forward.com/articles/book-israel-lobby-pushing-iran-war/

Nathan Guttman Forward December 29, 2006

A former United Nations weapons inspector and leading Iraq War opponent has written a new book alleging that Jerusalem is pushing the Bush administration into war with Iran, and accusing the pro-Israel lobby of dual loyalty and "outright espionage."

In the new book, called "Target Iran," Scott Ritter, who served as a senior U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq from 1991 to 1998 and later became one of the war's staunchest critics, argues that the United States is readying for military action against Iran, using its nuclear program [...] 4695 557 51_Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:47:11 -0800634_ascii Then follow the link and read the booklet. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 6:56:56 PM Subject: Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers OK Sharon, it is now the evening of the 2nd. Where were we? Oh yes- the question raised about the CAIR training manual. You are so perceptive! There was more than meets the eye, tho I was not making aspersions or accusations- yet. What I am curious about, really, going on previous CAIR literature and statements, is whether the inside of the manual reflects the title, [...] 5253 102 10_Re: Church12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 07:49:08 -0800697_ascii Well, duh. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 9:59:57 PM Subject: Church The following is an article from last Sunday's LA Times, dateline Ohio. It defies credulity and decency. I sincerely hope people will stop supporting these insitutionalized child molesters and demand from the Vatican a much-needed cleaning-up of their act. "SUSPENDED PRIEST RETURNS TO MINISTRY" "The Vatican has reinstated a priest suspended in 2002over allegations of sexual misconduct and will allow him to return to active ministry after undergoing counseling, the Archdiocese of Cincinnati said. .. . . . [...] 5356 67 22_Ahmadinajad last year?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:42:44 -0800482_iso-8859-1 Worth a read.

Steve

How to make '07 Ahmadinejad's last year in power by Michael Rubin New York Daily News January 3, 2007 http://www.meforum.org/article/1071

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 5424 1156 51_Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:43:57 -0800506_iso-8859-1 Yes MA'AM !

Steve

----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 7:47 AM Subject: Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers



Then follow the link and read the booklet. -Sharon



----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2007 6:56:56 PM Subject: Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers [...] 6581 157 53_Re: Scott Ritter Book: Israel, Lobby Pushing Iran War11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 10:50:44 -0800731_iso-8859-1 Scott Ritter could have a good time massaging Ward Churchill.

Steve

Who comes up with this stuff?!



----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Safier" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 6:44 AM Subject: Scott Ritter Book: Israel, Lobby Pushing Iran War



> Book: Israel, Lobby Pushing Iran War > > http://www.forward.com/articles/book-israel-lobby-pushing-iran-war/ > > Nathan Guttman > Forward > December 29, 2006 > > A former United Nations weapons inspector and leading Iraq War opponent > has written a new book alleging that Jerusalem is pushing the Bush > administration into war with Iran, and accusing the pro-Israel lobby [...] 6739 48 17_Re: Guitar player13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:59:57 EST512_US-ASCII Dear Jon,

Nope...never heard of him...sounds nice though. Thanks.

Steven

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 6788 359 19_Fw: JEWS IN AMERICA11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:21:17 -0800656_iso-8859-1

I don't remember this going around, so here it is (again?).

Steve



Subject: Fw: JEWS IN AMERICA







Subject: Jews in the government --

1. Which sitting US Senator had the most Jewish grandparents?

a. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D, California)

b. Senator George Allen (R, Virginia)

c. Senator Hillary Clinton (D, New York)



a - Of the three, only Senator Feinstein is Jewish and she wins with 3 Jewish grandparents (although not her mother's mother), Senator Allen had 2 (his mother's parents) and Senator Clinton had a Jewish step-grandfather. [...] 7148 139 8_Fw: JEWS11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:22:17 -0800577_iso-8859-1 This HAS been around, though slightly different in form.

Steve



----- Subject: Fw: JEWS







JEWISH POPULATION OF THE WORLD > > This is very interesting. Click on > a country, and > you will get a history of Jews of > that country !!! > This is absolutely enthralling. If > you click on a particular country, it will give you > a history of Judiasm in that > country, with links to other stories. I would put > this > into my "favorites" folder and > look at it every so often. There is far too much > information [...] 7288 258 19_Fw: Chinese dancers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 11:35:26 -0800769_UTF-8 I would rather send this twice rather than having someone miss it. It's good, even if you hate "Steve stuff".

Please file under "Nothing particularly Jewish".

Enjoy

Steve



Subject: Fw: Chinese dancers





Do not miss this one.Watch on a big screen

מומלץ לפתוח הסרטון שבקישור לגודל המסך

ממש מדהי×





http://youtube.com/watch?v=-_CUhQP2lJ4 & search=point%20shoe











--







--











----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. [...] 7547 90 31_Re: Say NO To Bush's Last Stand11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 14:17:04 -0700456_us-ascii Well put Yuval.

Given the blatantly irresponsible, illegal, immoral, and downright destructive policies and actions taken by the Bushies, their Reptilican Congress and their Dino allies, it amazes me that anyone can support them. That prominent Jews (Krauthammer, Kristol, et al) pimp for these criminals leads me to believe that their relationship with Israel outweighs all else. One can only hope that they reap what they have sown. [...] 7638 228 19_Re: JEWS IN AMERICA12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 3 Jan 2007 13:20:21 -0800639_ascii Israel Goldfarb lost most of his family in the holocaust, then lost his daughter to Mormonism? The poor guy! -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2007 11:21:17 AM Subject: Fw: JEWS IN AMERICA I don't remember this going around, so here it is (again?). Steve Subject: Fw: JEWS IN AMERICA Subject: Jews in the government -- 1. Which sitting US Senator had the most Jewish grandparents? a. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D, California) b. Senator George Allen (R, Virginia) c. Senator Hillary Clinton (D, New York) a - Of the three, only [...] 7867 23 23_Kolleck lying in state?11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 00:45:39 -0500497_ISO-8859-1 I read that Teddy Kolleck's coffin is lying in state in Jerusalem. What is with this? Isn't it contrary to every Jewish custom? Did Rabin, Begin, Ben Gurion etc lie in state?

Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 7891 47 57_=?iso-8859-8?Q?=FA=F9=E5=E1=E4:?= Kolleck lying in state?13_David Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 08:50:53 +0200357_iso-8859-8 I don't remember everyone, but Rabin definitely did - huge crowds and lines (I almost got crushed) at the Knesset. Even major entertainment figures - recently, Yossi Banai - lie in state for people to pay their respects. I was there this morning for Teddy Kollek - pretty early, so not much of a crowd - and it will only be for a few hours. [...] 7939 72 61_Re: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=FA=F9=E5=E1=E4:?= Kolleck lying in state?11_Carol Shore21_c_shore@IX.NETCOM.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 07:08:02 -0500428_iso-8859-8 I stood in line for hours on a bone chilling cold rainy December day in 1973 when Ben Gurion lay in state so I guess Israel has been doing this as a modern state honoring its leaders when they pass. Carol Shore



----- Original Message ----- From: "David Greener" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 1:50 AM Subject: úùåáä: Kolleck lying in state? [...] 8012 145 62_Re: =?ISO-8859-8?Q?=FA=F9=E5=E1=E4:?= Kolleck lying in s tate?11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 07:30:08 -0500583_ISO-8859-8 Thanks! Another fact about Israel that I'd never guess from my many visits. Judy

David Greener wrote:

>I don't remember everyone, but Rabin definitely did - huge crowds and lines (I almost got crushed) at the Knesset. Even major entertainment figures - recently, Yossi Banai - lie in state for people to pay their respects. I was there this morning for Teddy Kollek - pretty early, so not much of a crowd - and it will only be for a few hours. > >Trudy > >----- äåãòä î÷åøéú ----- >îàú: Judy Gelman >úàøéê: éåí ä', éðåàø 4, 2007 7:48 [...] 8158 660 32_Israel will do whatever it takes13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:05:52 +0200683_us-ascii Get ready.

Israel will do whatever it takes Douglas Davis

Within the next 12 months, the Americans or the Israelis, possibly both, are likely to launch military strikes aimed at crippling Iran's nuclear ambitions. Those strikes may come sooner rather than later. And they will probably be nuclear.

Israeli military analysts say intervention is essential before Iran's scientists are able to complete the nuclear cycle - some time during 2007 - and start producing weapons-grade uranium. President Ahmadinejad himself has boasted of 'mastering the fuel cycle' during the Ten-Day Dawn festival in early February when Iranians mark the anniversary of [...] 8819 28 34_[QUAR] ADL web page recommendation0_26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:47:42 -0500589_- I thought you might be interested in this article:

Anti-Semites, White Supremacists Exploit Jimmy Carter's Book for Propaganda Value

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4955_13.htm

Additional comments:



Sincerely, Steve Klein

http://www.adl.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8848 57 31_Re: ADL web page recommendation11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:04:19 -0700537_us-ascii Sorry if this makes your head spin Steve, but if anti-semitism did not exist, the Israel Lobby, ADL, et al would have to invent it. Need I remind you of "Manufacturing Anti-Semites" by Uri Avnery? http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery1002.html

Using concepts unfairly or exploiting them for nefarious purposes does not make the facts wrong. Whatever you do, don't engage in a substantial dialogue about what Carter said... just shoot the messenger by calling him an enabler of anti-semites. How bold and clever of you! [...] 8906 61 12_Worth seeing16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 16:52:51 -0800559_iso-8859-1 PBS Documentary



Mark your calendars for 9 p.m. CST (10 p.m. EST), Monday, January 8, 2007, when PBS will air a new documentary by Andrew Goldberg of Two Cats Productions: "Anti-Semitism in the 21st Century: The Resurgence."



Today, more than 60 years after the Holocaust, parts of the world are experiencing a dramatic resurgence of anti-Semitism--from hate propaganda to vandalism to attacks on Jews themselves. In Europe, violent acts against Jews and Jewish institutions have more than doubled since the 1990s. [...] 8968 84 31_Re: ADL web page recommendation11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 17:27:20 -0800701_iso-8859-1 Phil

No

and No

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Safier" To: Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 3:04 PM Subject: Re: ADL web page recommendation



> Sorry if this makes your head spin Steve, but if anti-semitism did not > exist, the Israel Lobby, ADL, et al would have to invent it. Need I remind > you of "Manufacturing Anti-Semites" by Uri Avnery? > http://www.counterpunch.org/avnery1002.html > > Using concepts unfairly or exploiting them for nefarious purposes does not > make the facts wrong. Whatever you do, don't engage in a substantial > dialogue about what Carter said... [...] 9053 81 32_A prayer for the Prime Minsister16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:39:50 -0800346_iso-8859-1 A prayer for the prime minister By Bradley Burston Say a prayer for the prime minister.

Say a prayer for the man who could not be broken.

Say a prayer for our shattered present. Say a prayer for our shuttered common future.

Pray for the man who could not be stilled. Pray for the man who could not be swayed. [...] 9135 173 30_Re: If Sharon were with us now16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 4 Jan 2007 19:47:55 -0800375_iso-8859-1 If Sharon were with us now By Bradley Burston



For Israelis, the year 2006 ended four days after it began.

It ended when Dr. Shlomo Mor-Yosef of Hadassah hospital first walked out to announce that Ariel Sharon had suffered what he called a significant cerebral incident.

So began a day, a month, in the end, a year of held breath. [...] 9309 60 21_Reviving Judaism/ WSJ16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 5 Jan 2007 04:15:47 -0800617_iso-8859-1 Reviving Judaism Consultant-speak goes religious.

BY NAOMI SCHAEFER RILEY Friday, January 5, 2007 12:01 a.m. EST A few weeks ago, Hillary Clinton got started on a new "listening tour." Her first one, during the 2000 Senate campaign, was aimed at soliciting the ideas of New York voters on what legislative issues were important to them. This one is aimed at hearing the thoughts of Democratic strategists on the subject of her presidential run. But the idea behind the tours remained the same: Find out what the people want--and, if possible, give it to them. In politics, such an approach has [...] 9370 95 38_Sacha Baron Cohen w/Terry Gross on NPR0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:49:06 -0500651_us-ascii I was driving to a meeting yesterday and heard a teaser for the program, which aired yesterday. I missed it live but here is the link for those interested in hearing his real voice.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6723074

Shabbat Shalom and try not to throw any Jews down the well,

Ken















________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. [...] 9466 70 71_Re: =?UTF-8?Q?=D7=AA=D7=A9=D7=95=D7=91=D7=94:?= Kolleck lying in state?0_23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET30_Fri, 5 Jan 2007 21:41:29 -0500322_UTF-8 It's not against Jewish custom to lie in state. It is the custom however to be buried quickly but that too is not necessary so long as the body is not allowed to decompose.

Incidentally, I only heard of Kollek's death from the Habonet. It shows how little I read the newspapers anymore; they are so bad. [...] 9537 155 68_Fw: "Jewish Communities in Remote Places: From Afghanistan to Yemen"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:44:53 -0800581_iso-8859-1 please circulate--thanks!!!For Bay Area

Steve





Subject: "Jewish Communities in Remote Places: From Afghanistan to Yemen"



Sunday morning lecture series on "the Living Religions of the World"

Sunday, Jan. 21, 2007



11:00 - 12:15



"Jewish Communities in Remote Places: From Afghanistan to Yemen"

A Multi-Media Presentation



by Ken Blady



Cultural Integration Fellowship 2650 Fulton St. (at 3rd Ave. across from Golden Gate Park) San Francisco, CA. 94118 [...] 9693 110 50_Fw: A clip of a Jewish Dance Group from France....11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:53:34 -0800799_Windows-1252

Enjoy!

Steve



Subject: A clip of a Jewish Dance Group from France....



A clip of a Jewish Dance Group ....



This is excellent !!

http://www.dailymotion.com/tag/chanson/video/xrkn8_adama







--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 9804 1272 20_Fw: God's Paintbrush11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 08:28:45 -0800620_iso-8859-1



Subject: God's Paintbrush



The title of this photo is "God's Paintbrush" I thought you would enjoy it.

Love, Howard











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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 11077 94 31_Re: ADL web page recommendation11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:18:12 -0800566_iso-8859-1 Phil

I googled Jeff Gannon, and as much as it was entertaining to read about the exploits and hypocracy of a closet gay, I don't get the connection (or aspersion?). What does Jeff Gannon's antics have to do with the bought-out anti-semitism of Jimmy Carter?

And by the way, I don't think it is in good taste for people to be calling Jimmy Carter a "whore for the Saudis". The fact that the Saudis apparently bought his "whoring" is more illuminating to the issue. It sounds as if he was deeper into their pockets than even the Bushies. [...] 11172 265 24_Fw: Random Thots Special11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:25:04 -0800624_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Marcia Plager To: Bob and Barbara Fruitman ; Carol Nalin ; Israel and Marlene Zakai ; Geoff and Linda Remes ; Ran Yaniv ; Eileen Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 8:37 AM Subject: Fw: Random Thots Special







Hawaii's Governor

> I was not aware the governor of Hawaii was a woman and Jewish, were you? > > She makes time for her scheduler, her cabinet and her closest advisers, but every Monday morning, Gov. Linda Lingle sits down to a meeting unlike any other during the week. It's with her rabbi. > Lingle's gubernatorial victory [...] 11438 307 75_Fw: Why won't Carter debate his book? By Alan Dershowitz | December 21,200611_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:38:28 -0800563_iso-8859-1

More Jimmy Carter

Steve





Why won't Carter debate his book? By Alan Dershowitz | December 21, 2006

YOU CAN ALWAYS tell when a public figure has written an indefensible book: when he refuses to debate it in the court of public opinion. And you can always tell when he's a hypocrite to boot: when he says he wrote a book in order to stimulate a debate, and then he refuses to participate in any such debate. I'm talking about former president Jimmy Carter and his new book "Palestine Peace Not Apartheid." [...] 11746 81 45_Fw: The Rabbi & the Cheerleader....from Heinz11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 09:46:49 -0800714_iso-8859-1 Haven't seen it. Passing along as information

Steve





Subject: The Rabbi & the Cheerleader...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKddisSNlFw&NR



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 11828 160 45_Re: The Rabbi & the Cheerleader....from Heinz13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 13:40:45 -0500531_iso-8859-1 I watched this one. She reminds me a lot of that other attractive Jewish blonde orthodox woman whose ideas and opinions I really hate. Is it Dr. Laura? I think it is something like that. If they are orthodox and married, than the nice attractive blonde hair must be just wigs, right? 'Cause otherwise, for orthodox women to look attactive is a sin. I mean, if they just put a wig that really doesn't look like a wig at all, then it is ok. Then they can go on tv, they can be dowloaded on youtube on the internet as [...] 11989 130 31_Re: ADL web page recommendation11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:28:50 -0700323_us-ascii Steve,

You cast aspersions on Scott Ritter with absolutely no basis in fact, a man with an impressive CV, whereas a self-professed gay male escort who has spent hundreds(?) of nights at the White House with his closeted buddies does not appear on your gaydar screen nor cause you any concern. Curious. [...] 12120 122 49_Patrick J. Buchanan: Cakewalk Crowd Abandons Bush11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sat, 6 Jan 2007 12:32:43 -0700550_iso-8859-1 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16073.htm

Cakewalk Crowd Abandons Bush

By Patrick J. Buchanan

01/05/07 "WorldNetDaily" --- -- Victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is an orphan, said a rueful John F. Kennedy after the Bay of Pigs. George W. Bush knows today whereof his predecessor spoke.

For as he prepares to "surge" 20,000 more U.S. troops into a war even he concedes we "are not winning," his erstwhile acolytes have begun to abandon him to salvage their own tattered reputations. [...] 12243 259 45_Re: The Rabbi & the Cheerleader....from Heinz0_15_emabear@AOL.COM30_Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:34:13 -0500564_us-ascii Here we go again, and it's only 8 days into the Gregorian New Year. As an Orthodox Jewish woman, who does cover her hair, may I suggest that you check your facts (Halacha) about why we cover our heads. As usual, when you write these outlandish, absurd and often abusive emails, your information is incorrect. What Orthodox Jew did what to you that you are so full of hate. My teachers have always taught me Ahavat Yisrael as the prime mitzvah in one's relationship to others. Ever heard of that one? Perhaps you need to research that also. About the [...] 12503 368 45_Re: The Rabbi & the Cheerleader....from Heinz13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:41:42 -0500601_iso-8859-1 I believe my facts are right. In any case, you certainly have not adduced here any facts that refute mine.

I'm sorry if my tone made it sound like I hate orthodox people just for being orthodox. I don't. I've known a few orthodox people in my life who did not have rith-wing and reactionary political views, but they were very few and far between. I always wonder why Jewish rabbinic orthodoxy tends to make people right-wing and reactionary in their political and cultural views, but that, unfortunately, is the empirical fact at present. To all the American orthodox examples [...] 12872 670 43_London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Sun, 7 Jan 2007 11:59:01 -0500588_us-ascii















The Sunday Times January 07, 2007



Revealed: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran

Uzi Mahnaimi, New York and Sarah Baxter, Washington





ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran's uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.

Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear "bunker-busters", according to several Israeli military sources. [...] 13543 57 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Sun, 7 Jan 2007 19:17:44 +0200576_iso-8859-1 Well, we bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor and the world eventually, but reluctantly, was glad.

Might as well bomb Iran's stuff, too.

Dave

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 13601 37 15_JLTV-Mazal Tov!12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 7 Jan 2007 09:26:46 -0800617_iso-8859-1 Chevre- we have been assigned our first cable channel ( somehwere iin Florida) and so we are now free in 15,000 homes...more to come! PLEASE VISIT US AT: www.jltv.tv AND YOU CAN SEE US AS A STREAMING CHANNEL ON THE INITERNET...SOON COMING TO A CABLE OR SATELLITE CHANNEL NEAR YOU!!....Also check out all of the buttons on the homepage...we are aiming to younger audiences.....with film, documentaires, and "Jewtube"!.....For those of you who are working in the Jewish Community- we have a show called "Get Connected"-- if your community does soemthing cool, tape it and we will air it....You can send [...] 13639 186 53_Leading Academic: Neo-Nazis Have Signed Us Onto WWIII11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:24:21 -0700587_us-ascii Leading Academic: Neo-Nazis Have Signed Us Onto WWIII Destroying World Order: Analysing the war In Iraq and the middle east with Dr Franics A Boyle

Steve Watson & Alex Jones http://infowars.net/articles/january2007/050107Boyle.htm Friday, January 5, 2007

Alex Jones was joined on air this week by eminent American Professor, Dr Francis A Boyle, to discuss the current situation in Iraq, the wider implications for International Relations and the ruthless mentality of the Straussian neoconservatives that have seized global power in the twenty first century. [...] 13826 95 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 7 Jan 2007 15:16:52 -0800547_ascii Oh yeah, might as well. Might take the world a little longer to be "glad" if Israel uses nuclear weapons this time. How ironic it would be if, after all the effort that has gone into non-proliferation, the only countries to have actually used the bomb turn out to be the US and Israel. Wait a minute, now I get it! Non-proliferation was intended to do just that! The bomb is OK for _us_ (the U.S and our special friends), but _you_ don't deserve it (for whatever reason) or _you_ can't be trusted with it (for whatever reason). In case [...] 13922 279 45_Re: The Rabbi & the Cheerleader....from Heinz19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 02:20:58 -0500 14202 78 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 12:36:00 +0200569_ISO-8859-1 Sharon, no matter what you say, someone will jump on you. How ironic that Israel will be blamed for a.) bombing Iran and destroying their nuclear ability -- OR -- b.) Not bombing Iran and destroying their nuclear ability.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't, so we might as well. Besides, who says that Israel will use nuclear bombs? You already beleiving what the media has written? Another point - every - and I mean EVERY - military establishment prepares plans for "just in case". Don't mean that they will be used, just they like to be [...] 14281 42 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 06:38:12 -0500588_ISO-8859-1 Holtzer Family wrote:

> No matter what city you live in, somewhere there are plans to deal > with atomic, biological and chemical attack as well as major weather > scenarios. > Dave

Dave-

I wish you were right. Unfortunately a lot of American cities don't actually have plans for these unlikely events, or even likely ones. Or the plans are just awful--Many are just like the New Orleans plan: All the rich people will get in their private cars and drive away and all the poor and disabled people will stay in inadequate shelter with no one in charge [...] 14324 34 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 14:00:11 +0200557_ISO-8859-1 Funny - a couple months before Katrina, my wife and I visited New Orleans and we saw all the signs for evacuation routes..... little did we know that less than 6 months later the places we visited were under water, including the hotel/motel we stayed at. And you're right - people never learn or see the writing on the wall and start planning for worst case scenarios - I won't tell you the condition of the bomb shelters here in Urim. Best description is that they exist, but certainly not enough to even stuff all the people into them (if [...] 14359 344 22_Fw: Synagogue Bloopers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 06:29:03 -0800452_- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 06/01/2007 19:47

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 14704 327 18_Fw: happy New Year11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 06:41:02 -0800327_Windows-1252 This was also forwarded to the people in the Cc list.

Steve





Cc: President George W. Bush ; The Hon. Rudy Boschwitz ; The Hon. Barbara Boxer ; The Hon. Diane Feinstein ; The Hon. Tom Lantos ; The Hon. Pete Stark Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 11:09 PM Subject: Fw: happy New Year [...] 15032 229 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 06:46:56 -0800626_iso-8859-1 Sharon

OK- What is it that you are saying?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 3:16 PM Subject: Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans



Oh yeah, might as well. Might take the world a little longer to be "glad" if Israel uses nuclear weapons this time. How ironic it would be if, after all the effort that has gone into non-proliferation, the only countries to have actually used the bomb turn out to be the US and Israel. Wait a minute, now I get it! Non-proliferation was intended to [...] 15262 209 21_Fw: Bris, the musical11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 07:08:28 -0800672_iso-8859-1 Enjoy.

You might recognize some of the Jewish faces.

Steve











Subject: Bris, the musical







http://one.revver.com/watch/104236









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 15472 67 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:18:40 EST490_US-ASCII The best disaster plan was the one developed by Haifa and put into effect during the this summers war with Lebanon. When he took office, Yona Yahav, Haifa's mayor, was informed that Haifa sits on a major fault line that could cut the city into three areas. In response the city developed a disaster plan and trained its municipal employees to respond. While there were some lapses, by and large the city responded promptly and more effectively then any city in recent memory. [...] 15540 120 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 08:08:15 -0800683_ascii I am objecting to Dave's "might as well" with regard to Israel's possible use of nuclear weapons in an attempt to destroy Iran's nuclear program. Dave's comment sounded to me like a cavalier dismissal of consequences of the action discussed in the London Times article, including extensive human suffering and environmental damage. Clear enough? -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 8, 2007 6:46:56 AM Subject: Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans Sharon OK- What is it that you are saying? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 15661 303 30_Fwd: Re: Fw: Bris, the musical12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 11:45:29 -0500421_us-ascii I'm sending this as a forward because I suspect it didn't go as a regular email. Oh well, the 21st century Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 15965 32 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 10:25:58 -0800475_UTF-8 > > Ok - lets take a poll - who has an emergency kit ready? Flashlights, >extra batteries, water, water purification tablets, first aid kit, >knife/hatchet, matches, canned food, etc. I don't. I have a first aid kit >and a few flashlights, but nothing more. And I was both in the Boy Scouts >and a medic in the army..... > > Dave > I do, but I live in earthquake country and the kids learn about having emergency routs planned, food, water, etc., so we are ready. [...] 15998 56 16_Re: disaster kit11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:30:22 -0500364_us-ascii We have pretty much all of that assembled except for the purification tablets. After 9/11 I drove around with it in my car for a year or 3, sleeping bags too, but doesn't fit well in the new car. Hatchet raised some eyebrows...

Now I work in sight of the capitol dome so I imagine I'm toast if there is a conflaguration during the work day... [...] 16055 21 46_a question to all the first strikers out there11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:32:40 -0500500_us-ascii What if all the noise from Iran (nukes, holocaust denial, calls for elimination) is a clever trick to get Israel to "preemptively" attack to then justify an attack in retaliation?

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 16077 75 50_Re: a question to all the first strikers out there12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 13:05:38 -0800793_ascii Now you're thinkin', Lincoln! -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 8, 2007 12:32:40 PM Subject: a question to all the first strikers out there What if all the noise from Iran (nukes, holocaust denial, calls for elimination) is a clever trick to get Israel to "preemptively" attack to then justify an attack in retaliation? Noam ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options [...] 16153 99 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:20:05 EST536_US-ASCII In a message dated 1/8/07 10:27:13 AM Pacific Standard Time, batel_libes@earthlink.net writes:

> > > > > Ok - lets take a poll - who has an emergency kit ready? Flashlights, > >extra batteries, water, water purification tablets, first aid kit, > >knife/hatchet, matches, canned food, etc. I don't. I have a first aid kit > > >and a few flashlights, but nothing more. And I was both in the Boy Scouts > >and a medic in the army..... > > > > Dave > > > I do, but I live in earthquake country and the kids learn about [...] 16253 130 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 14:21:02 -0800600_iso-8859-1 Sharon- I suppose you are dismissing the threat of Ahmadinajad of Israel's extinction as "OK"- as long as he doesn't harm the environment?...Somewhere you need to "get real" with all of this. Mankind hasn't learned too much when it comes to warfare and extremisms... It seems that leaders don't seem to care about flowers when they can blow up their "enemies" to prove the size of their cocks is bigger. It's just a "guy" thing.....Iran's leader is planning the extinction of the Jews, but we're God's chosen...so don't think we're going to go lightly, or march again into the camps. [...] 16384 49 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 15:13:10 -0800484_UTF-8 Does anyone really believe that Iran is far enough away that Israel would not be harmed by nuclear fallout?

And, as the chosen people and people of The Book—for me it means we can think, we should choose to lead the world and show that there is no place for nuclear war and weapons in these times. And please, don’t reply by telling me that the other side does not play by these rules, it really does not contribute to the discussion, rather, puts an end to it. [...] 16434 129 52_Fwd: Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 17:12:18 -0800548_iso-8859-1 > To: Batel Libes > > Batel- I hope your reply or reaction wasn't meant > for me, as I find it absolutely ridiculous that men, or > mankind has not, in all of our years of > civilization, found a better way to settle our differences other > than war, or at the least, "laissez-faire." That was > the reason for my ridiculous comment to begin with. > I am consistantly appalled at the fact that we can > send email around the world in a nano-second, but we > still kill each other. The arguemnt about not [...] 16564 67 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 20:38:30 -0500410_iso-8859-1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, the same old story, always the guy's fault. Perhaps you're forgetting all those women who are proud of their suicide bomber kids who are sorry they only have one womb to give for their country or whatever.

As for your "bring on the nukes" comment, two points, 1) be careful what you wish for and 2) who is indulging in what sounds like "testosterone induced behavior"? [...] 16632 106 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 19:54:29 -0800572_iso-8859-1 In answer to all of this, all I have to say is, "Lysistrata"..........sue



--- Noam Stopak wrote:

> Yeah, yeah, yeah, the same old story, always the > guy's fault. Perhaps > you're forgetting all those women who are proud of > their suicide bomber kids > who are sorry they only have one womb to give for > their country or whatever. > > As for your "bring on the nukes" comment, two > points, 1) be careful what you > wish for and 2) who is indulging in what sounds like > "testosterone induced > behavior"? > [...] 16739 28 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Mon, 8 Jan 2007 22:16:09 -0600541_ISO-8859-1 Lysistrata approach not applicable when Allah has promised 72 virgins for all brave martyrs when they get to heaven.

Sue Liberman wrote:

>In answer to all of this, all I have to say is, >"Lysistrata"..........sue > >

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 16768 66 28_Re: Cavalier? No, not really14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:56:34 +0200551_iso-8859-1 Unfortunately, not every single person on the earth is a pacifist. In the real world, there are millions of people out there trying to kill you and me. I just don't think that ignoring the problem or trying to buy them off is a solution - ask Chamberlin if giving a few more Easten European countries would have stopped Hitler. I have no problem with looking for peaceful means to solve a problem. It's just that when the other guy is attacking me, I have the right to defend myself. I still remember stuffing my 5 kids into gas masks [...] 16835 56 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 13:09:37 +0200551_iso-8859-1 Another thought..... Being a pacifist in today's reality is like being a Christian Scientist with appendicitis.

Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 16892 107 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 06:58:35 -0500455_iso-8859-1 Dave,

I think there is a big difference between advocating pacifism to the extent you imply below, and saying that a preemptive strike based on intelligence may not be the way to go. Didn't Israeli intelligence support the US claims of WMD in Iraq?

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Holtzer Family To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 6:09 AM Subject: Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans [...] 17000 65 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:39:33 -0500718_us-ascii Ouch Dave. That was the unkindest cut of all Amnon ----- Original Message ----- From: Holtzer Family Date: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 6:23 am Subject: Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Another thought..... Being a pacifist in today's reality is like > being a Christian Scientist with appendicitis. > > Dave > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: [...] 17066 179 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 16:34:23 +0200606_iso-8859-1 Sorry Noam, but I prefer the "extensive human suffering and environmental damage" mentioned by Sharon to be on their side, not mine. Besides, Iran has been openly building nuclear capability, and the rockets to deliver them as well, for years. Ahmadinajad has not been hiding anything, really, and his public wish to wipe Israel from the map should not be treated lightly, either, based on Iran's nuclear ambitions. Don't forget his Holocaust Denial Conference a little while ago. This isn't a secret intelligence agency's report stating as fact what the readers of the report want to see. [...] 17246 60 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 07:02:33 -0800645_iso-8859-1 Yeah- go and tell that to the horny Arab salesmen in the Old City who used to pinch my behind as I walked out of their stores.....(back when I was a little younger- it actually is a nice memory!).....:)....sue





--- Shawn Eli Barland wrote:

> Lysistrata approach not applicable when Allah > has promised 72 > virgins for all brave martyrs when they get to > heaven. > > Sue Liberman wrote: > > >In answer to all of this, all I have to say is, > >"Lysistrata"..........sue > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing [...] 17307 50 25_London Sunday Times redux16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 10:42:17 -0500514_ISO-8859-1 Just to throw a little more fuel on the fire between Sharon & Holtzer, it's worth noting that the London Sunday Times is the only newspaper I've seen to report the story of ostensible Israeli preparations (not just plans) to take out Iranian nuclear plants w/nukes. In passing I note that neither the New York Times, the Washington Post or even the Wall Street Journal carried this story, though it did make the breathy talk of Fox News Sunday. Since then, however, even Fox has dropped the story. [...] 17358 188 45_Paul Craig Roberts: The Coming Attack on Iran11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 09:03:36 -0700661_us-ascii http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16105.htm

Is Bush's War Winding Down or Heating Up?

The Coming Attack on Iran

By Paul Craig Roberts

01/08/07 "Information Clearing House" -- -- Most Americans believe that Bush's Iraqi misadventure is over. The occupation has lost the support of the electorate, the Congress, the generals and the troops. The Democrats are sitting back waiting for Bush to come to terms with reality. They don't want to be accused of losing the war by forcing Bush out of Iraq. There are no more troops to commit, and when the "surge" fails, Bush will have no recourse but to withdraw. A [...] 17547 76 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 11:10:31 -0500582_us-ascii Dave,

I don't think it is productive to set up strawmen and knock them down, but go for it if it makes you feel more secure.

I'm not advocating turn the other cheek, especially to the group of cheek pinchers in question.

What I'm suggesting is that there may be more going on than meets the eye. The denial conference, the wipe the map statements, the nuclear work are too public and too obvious. I'm not advocating ignoring any of the evidence, but I think it is wise to be cautious when evaluating what are obvious provocations and consider the [...] 17624 115 43_Re: Panjandrm was London Sunday Times redux12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 12:22:54 -0500642_us-ascii Elihu Here's what I found on Panjandrum: http://www.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Panjandrum. Why not just call it a Trojan Horse on wheels? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elihu D. Davison" Date: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 10:56 am Subject: London Sunday Times redux To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Just to throw a little more fuel on the fire between Sharon & > Holtzer, > it's worth noting that the London Sunday Times is the only > newspaper > I've seen to report the story of ostensible Israeli preparations > (not > just plans) to take out Iranian nuclear plants w/nukes. In > passing I > note [...] 17740 646 16_LIKE A SHOEMAKER12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:43:03 -0500597_utf-8 Haverim/ot On Shabbat I gave a d'var torah at our synagogue. I feel that it has bearing on our contemporary situation Amnon

What is Leadership?

Va'Yechi, the last parasha in Genesis which details Jacob's blessing to his children has something in common with two others': Moses' blessing to the Israelites in Deuteronomy 33 and Devorah's Song in Shoftim 5. The first two are the valedictory prophetic addresses of two old men who are at the end of their lives and the third is the reckoning with the tribes of Devorah, a vital and feisty woman General. – She praises the [...] 18387 74 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans0_18_DLerner569@AOL.COM28_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:50:24 EST540_US-ASCII Someplace yesterday I heard someone say casually that the important thing for the Bush administration now is to keep the war going until after the next election. I presume the theory is that it will help Rep's since they are the military jock straps, or place Dem's in the position of either doing the rational thing of ending the war and being lableded wimps, or escalating it in an effort to win. All of which says that for purely political reasons (as well as all the other good reasons) the Dem's should stop the war now. [...] 18462 103 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 14:00:21 -0800653_ascii Just pray that you're not downwind (remembering that we are all downwind). -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Holtzer Family To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, January 9, 2007 6:34:23 AM Subject: Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans Sorry Noam, but I prefer the "extensive human suffering and environmental damage" mentioned by Sharon to be on their side, not mine. Besides, Iran has been openly building nuclear capability, and the rockets to deliver them as well, for years. Ahmadinajad has not been hiding anything, really, and his public wish to wipe Israel from the map should not be treated [...] 18566 47 47_Re: London Sunday Times - Israeli Nuclear Plans11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:18:28 -0700398_us-ascii Dennis,

What problem do you/we/GWB have with Venezuela??? Did they say something nice about Palestinians? Did Carter build some houses there? Pissed off at Hugo for selling cheap heating oil to folks in this country?

I hope more countries thumb their noses at us. We have screwed the pooch big time. Until we hang some folks in this country, we deserve whatever we get. [...] 18614 207 49_Re: Paul Craig Roberts: The Coming Attack on Iran0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 15:23:32 -0800487_utf-8 Phil,

What was the point you wanted to make with this article. That there are people out there who still believe that the Jews control the world? Look at the political situation in Israel today. The Israelis are having all they can handle just trying to run their own country let alone the world, or even America. This kind of conspiracy ramblings is just nuts. How many Israeli officials are under investigation? How many political parties are stable and functioning? [...] 18822 82 41_Re: London Sunday Times - unkindest touch14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 03:27:31 +0200301_ISO-8859-1 The Christian Scientist with appendicitis line is not mine - from one of Tom Lehrer's songs. I recently managed to fix our turntable and we have been listening to records and "that was the year that was" is but one of our approx 350 vinyls.... Next week - Nick Danger meets the Arab!! [...] 18905 106 41_Re: London Sunday Times - unkindest touch11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:34:01 -0500348_iso-8859-1 holy cow, not the old same place! you can't get there from here.

one of my biggest regrets from my time at UC Santa Cruz was not taking a class with Tom Lehrer ----- Original Message ----- From: Holtzer Family To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 8:27 PM Subject: Re: London Sunday Times - unkindest touch [...] 19012 336 28_Re: Cavalier? No, not really11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:28:02 -0800516_us-ascii For me, it's not about being a pacifist or not. It's about being a realist. And though I do fully understand and am aware of what Iran's leadership is saying, sooner or later this does become a pissing match. I also believe that who ever is on the other side can by actions and words instigate and fuel a situation that may not become as flammable if things were kept a bit more in low key. Just look at how unsafe this nation has been since Bush has come to power. And yes, I do place a great deal of [...] 19349 69 53_Interesting video about Speilberg Jewish Film Archive16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:29:06 -0800610_iso-8859-1 This film is about 10 minutes long, but it's very interesting....





After the small movie starts, click on the "X" under the small movie to get it on the full screen. Be sure your sound is on.







Click here: Virtual cinema of The Steven Spielberg Jewish Film Archive































__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [...] 19419 366 41_Re: London Sunday Times - unkindest touch11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 18:34:10 -0800467_us-ascii I get to go hear David Bromberg with Peter Rowan and Tony Rice this Thursday, with a front row center seat at the wonderful Palace of Fine Arts in S.F. What fun.





Batel





-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 5:34 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: London Sunday Times - unkindest touch [...] 19786 235 28_Re: Cavalier? No, not really12_Esther Cohen23_cohensteacy@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:00:15 -0500304_iso-8859-1 sorry - i generally keep out of these discussions, but i have to ask - if i send my kid to jewish school she can learn to beat the crap out of bullies instead of walking away or talking??

thanks for the clarification.

esther (cohen, mosh 70-75+, mb 76, workshop g.h. 77-78) [...] 20022 102 28_Re: Cavalier? No, not really11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 23:07:07 -0500554_ISO-8859-1 Not what my kid learned there. I'd say they worked pretty hard on conflict resolution that didn't involve fists and also on figuring out why bullies were bullies in the first place.

Actually, the worst bully my son's age ended up leaving at about 5th grade (before we got to the school--but we knew the kid and the family from elsewhere), but I think that was because he was failing many subjects and had an overall horrible attitude. Is that why he was a bully? Maybe or maybe because he has a father who is a horrible bully as a [...] 20125 144 53_Israel Developing Massive New Unmanned Aerial Vehicle13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 07:58:47 +0200504_US-ASCII Israel Developing Massive New Unmanned Aerial Vehicle

by Staff Writers Jerusalem (AFP) Jan 08, 2007 Israel is developing the world's largest unmanned aircraft which will be used for long-range operations and destroying ballistic missiles as they are being launched, a security official said Monday. The Eitan has been developed by the Israel Aircraft Industries and has a wing span of 35 metres (110 feet) -- similar to that of a Boeing 737 passenger plane -- the official told AFP. [...] 20270 161 28_Re: Cavalier? No, not really12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Jan 2007 22:01:30 -0800549_iso-8859-1 Being a realist in these times means recognizing the insanity of an Ahmadinajad and learning that his rheotic can turn an Iran backwards into the Germany of the late 1930s. It isn't burying your head in the sand. Bush is an idiot and I can't stand him or his policies either. But as the nation in consistant danger of extinction from its enemies, Batel, please look the horse in the face and see what is staring back at you. It's very scary, and we can't let this monster (or monsters) sneak up and then just push the red button and [...] 20432 37 20_Re: LIKE A SHOEMAKER19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 01:16:19 -0500 20470 82 20_Re: LIKE A SHOEMAKER12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:10:21 -0500965_us-ascii Thanks Aliya. Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Aliya Cheskis-Cotel Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:30 am Subject: Re: LIKE A SHOEMAKER To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG



amnon hadary wrote on 1/9/07, 3:43 PM:

With all due modesty when we asses what we have accomplished in 44 years we can be justly  proud


Wall Street Journal editorialists use the word as an epithet to describe writers and editors of opinion pieces & publications to the left of their editorial & op-ed pronouncements. Come to think of it, the Journal's editorial and opinion writers could be called panjandra! [...] 20640 73 20_Re: panjandrum redux12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:02:57 -0500484_us-ascii Elihu, I was reffering to Panjandrum, or The Great Panjandrum was one of a number of highly experimental projects, including Hajile and the Hedgehog, that were developed by the Admiralty's Directorate of Miscellaneous Weapons Development in the final years of World War II. that I found at http://www.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Panjandrum. I think it's much more fun than the usual fare we get served up as IMHO (seldom MY never HUMBLE and almost invariably OPINIONATED [...] 20714 172 28_Re: Cavalier? No, not really11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 09:12:00 -0800 20887 258 48_[QUAR] Israeli and Palestinian Designers wanted.11_David Sokal14_dsokal@MSN.COM31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 10:04:46 -0800509_iso-8859-1 Hello Habonet,

I am looking for well-known Israeli and Palestinian designer/typographers to collaborate on the design of an olive oil label. The product is a mix of Dani Livney's (kibbutz Gezer) and his Palestinian friend's gourmet extra virgin olive oil.

So far I have asked Oded Ezer, http://www.odedezer.com, and he has replied that he is interested. Do any of you know him or know someone who does? I would like to be able to make a personal connection with him if possible. [...] 21146 183 41_"ZAHAL"- was-Re: Cavalier? No, not really12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:50:23 -0800566_iso-8859-1 The problem of "self-defense" and standing up to bullies goes way beyond the individual student in a school situation- and can be also applied to the world political situation. What is sad and actually so amazing, is the fact that while we do not know how to deal with this on an indiviual level, nor do we know how to deal with it on a national and international level. I would be interested to know if there is any reference to this in the Talmud (Amnon??? Twersky?? Elihu???)...I do know about saving one's own life in bad situations...but how do [...] 21330 95 52_Re: [QUAR] Israeli and Palestinian Designers wanted.12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 11:52:19 -0800625_iso-8859-1 What about Marcia Berman Greenfeld at Gesher HaZiv--she is an artist and graphics designer--and very talented--sue(sie)



--- David Sokal wrote:

> Hello Habonet, > > I am looking for well-known Israeli and Palestinian > designer/typographers to collaborate on the design > of an olive oil label. The product is a mix of Dani > Livney's (kibbutz Gezer) and his Palestinian > friend's gourmet extra virgin olive oil. > > So far I have asked Oded Ezer, > http://www.odedezer.com, and he has replied that he > is interested. Do any of you know him or know > someone who does? [...] 21426 44 9_Off Topic12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 15:43:02 -0500494_us-ascii What does QUAR in square brackets in the subject line signify? Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 21471 77 24_Re: Israel nuclear plans11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:56:57 -0500628_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- >From: "shelheid" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:20 AM Subject: Israel nuclear plans



> Noam (et al), > > > > Do you think that Iran is using their "too obvious" nuclear agenda to get > Israel to attack first because they are so concerned about international > legitimacy? > > As for Iraq's WMD program and Israeli intelligence agreement - we all know > (it was published) that the last time inspectors went into Iraq, there was > tons of massed biological and chemical weapons (and we know he used > them) [...] 21549 368 33_Dennis Ross: Don't Play With Maps11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:58:31 -0500418_iso-8859-1

January 9, 2007 Op-Ed Contributor Don't Play With Maps By DENNIS ROSS Washington

I BECAME embroiled in a controversy with former President Jimmy Carter over the use of two maps in his recent book, "Palestine Peace Not Apartheid." While some criticized what appeared to be the misappropriation of maps I had commissioned for my book, "The Missing Peace," my concern was always different. [...] 21918 207 37_Re: Dennis Ross: Don't Play With Maps12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 03:38:03 -0500385_us-ascii Noam, What a refreshing contribution the dennis ross piece brings to the discussion: probity, knowledge, clarity - I coud go on but I'm out of adjectives. Thanks for sending it. Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 7:12 pm Subject: Dennis Ross: Don't Play With Maps To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 22126 144 51_a blood pressure booster for my admirers on Habonet12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 08:05:34 -0800609_ascii I read it; I enjoyed it; I thought some others might also. I'm sure some of you like Michael Moore even more than you like me! -Sharon ___________________________________________________________________________________ Dear Mr. President: Send Even MORE Troops (and you go, too!) ...from Michael Moore 1/10/07 Dear Mr. President, Thanks for your address to the nation. It's good to know you still want to talk to us after how we behaved in November. Listen, can I be frank? Sending in 20,000 more troops just ain't gonna do the job. That will only bring the troop level back up to what it was last [...] 22271 247 55_Re: a blood pressure booster for my admirers on Habonet14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 19:58:22 +0200481_iso-8859-1 Jeez, I didn't vote for Bush, but can I go to Iraq, too? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: a blood pressure booster for my admirers on Habonet



I read it; I enjoyed it; I thought some others might also. I'm sure some of you like Michael Moore even more than you like me! -Sharon ___________________________________________________________________________________ [...] 22519 67 55_Re: a blood pressure booster for my admirers on Habonet11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:04:43 -0800 22587 203 41_The closer you get, the worse he looks...13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:13:59 +0200378_us-ascii 14 Carter Center advisers resign in protest over former president's book

The Associated Press Thursday, January 11, 2007 ATLANTA

Fourteen members of a Carter Center advisory board, who worked to build support for the human rights organization started by former President Jimmy Carter and his wife, have resigned in protest over Carter's latest book. [...] 22791 47 55_Re: a blood pressure booster for my admirers on Habonet0_14_FIZNIK@AOL.COM29_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:15:32 EST429_US-ASCII no.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 22839 66 58_the urge to surge and splurge, then purge and play a durge11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:09:08 -0500562_iso-8859-1 Nu, no comments on the speech? Or at least to the responses to it?

Lots of weasel words all around.

Noam





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 22906 107 62_Re: the urge to surge and splurge, then purge and play a durge17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 23:17:01 -0600683_us-ascii Not worthy of response. Nothing new. Lets reinforce failure. Stay the course. Insignificant number of troops. Blah blah blah blah blah. Our kids die for absolutely nothing. What comment do you expect? Let the hearings begin. Bush is delusional. Oversight is overdue.



Noam Stopak wrote:

> Nu, no comments on the speech? Or at least to the responses to it? > > Lots of weasel words all around. > > Noam > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew College > , which offers [...] 23014 40 15_Fw: Evil Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:42:28 -0800533_iso-8859-1 > > I found some great stuff for the "group". Especially entertaining was > within the link "Israeli's [sic] Arrested as Spies in America". I have > actually met some of the purveyors of the Zoomcoptors and Puzzlecars. > Seemed like a bunch of nice people. Most of them are still where I saw > them. Probably a ruse to confuse us oh-so-gullible Americans. > > (The comments below are from a solid friend of Israel.) > > Steve > > > Subject: Evil Israel > > >> This is a small sample of the drek being purveyed on the [...] 23055 616 9_Fw: Borat11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 11 Jan 2007 22:53:02 -0800676_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:52 PM Subject: Borat



Food for thought, both ways

Steve







Borat and the Jews:

Sacha Baron Cohen Does it Again!

Rabbi Sydney Mintz From a sermon delivered on November 10, 2006

When it comes to laughing at ourselves, the Jewish people are mavens. So much of Jewish humor takes the form of self-deprecation, which ironically has acted as a protecting shield against anti-Semitic stereotypes by exploiting them first. There is a joke from the era of World War II that makes this point: [...] 23672 67 15_Re: Evil Israel13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:17:52 +0200709_us-ascii Steve, here's some more:

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-mindcontrol-new-left.html

It's kinda like the stuff Phil sends in.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Klein Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:42 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: Evil Israel



> > I found some great stuff for the "group". Especially entertaining was > within the link "Israeli's [sic] Arrested as Spies in America". I have > actually met some of the purveyors of the Zoomcoptors and Puzzlecars. > Seemed like a bunch of nice people. Most of them are still where I saw > them. Probably a ruse [...] 23740 35 15_Re: Evil Israel11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:21:48 -0500438_iso-8859-1 Can you expand upon what the "Steve" considers the criteria to be considered "a solid friend of Israel"?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" To: Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 1:42 AM Subject: Fw: Evil Israel



> > >> I found some great stuff for the "group". ... >> >> (The comments below are from a solid friend of Israel.) >> >> Steve [...] 23776 363 62_Re: the urge to surge and splurge, then purge and play a durge0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:35:52 -0500652_utf-8 There is a column in this week's Forward which reports that Sharon warned Bush not to invade Iraq.

Here is the teaser from the Forward's email and you can find the entire column at www.forward.com

Ken

Yossi Alpher, former senior adviser to Prime Minister Ehud Barak, writes an exclusive opinion piece for the Forward revealing that former Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon told President Bush before the American invasion of Iraq that he opposed the idea. While Sharon acknowledged that Saddam Hussein was an "acute threat" to the Mideast, Alpher writes, the Israeli leader advised against occupying Iraq, and against [...] 24140 119 62_Re: the urge to surge and splurge, then purge and play a durge11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:56:05 -0500584_us-ascii Thanks Ken, I should have known that JJ and his crew wouldn't shy from the issue. I wonder if they are considered "solid friends of Israel" or if the Union of Progressive Zionists qualifies...

Noam

---- Original message ---- >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:35:52 -0500 >From: kbob24@AOL.COM >Subject: Re: the urge to surge and splurge, then purge and play a durge >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > There is a column in this week's Forward which > reports that Sharon warned Bush not to invade Iraq. > > Here is the teaser from the Forward's email and you > can find [...] 24260 49 15_Re: Evil Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:05:43 -0800665_iso-8859-1 Noam

If "The Steve" means me, thank you for the opportunity. I will answer upon my return Monday.

Steve







> Can you expand upon what the "Steve" considers the criteria to be > considered "a solid friend of Israel"? >

> >> > >>> I found some great stuff for the "group". ... >>> >>> (The comments below are from a solid friend of Israel.) >>> >>> Steve > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA [...] 24310 101 15_Re: Evil Israel12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 08:30:49 -0800587_ascii All of us solid friends of Israel wait with bated breath. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:05:43 AM Subject: Re: Evil Israel Noam If "The Steve" means me, thank you for the opportunity. I will answer upon my return Monday. Steve > Can you expand upon what the "Steve" considers the criteria to be > considered "a solid friend of Israel"? > > >> > >>> I found some great stuff for the "group". ... >>> >>> (The comments below are from a solid friend of Israel.) >>> >>> [...] 24412 81 15_Re: Evil Israel11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 12:23:11 -0700674_us-ascii Jon,

You're kinda like a putz.

Phil

At 01:17 PM 1/12/2007 +0200, Jonathan Baum wrote: >Steve, here's some more: > >http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-mindcontrol-new-left.html > >It's kinda like the stuff Phil sends in. > >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Steve Klein >Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:42 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Fw: Evil Israel > > > > > > I found some great stuff for the "group". Especially entertaining was > > within the link "Israeli's [sic] Arrested as Spies in America". I have > > actually met some of the purveyors of [...] 24494 107 15_Re: Evil Israel13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:22:19 +0200771_us-ascii Phil,

Slick reply.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Phil Safier Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:23 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Evil Israel



Jon,

You're kinda like a putz.

Phil

At 01:17 PM 1/12/2007 +0200, Jonathan Baum wrote: >Steve, here's some more: > >http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-mindcontrol-new-left.html > >It's kinda like the stuff Phil sends in. > >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] >On Behalf Of Steve Klein >Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:42 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Fw: Evil Israel > > > > > > I found some [...] 24602 131 10_NETIQUETTE12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 15:47:46 -0500687_us-ascii Noam and Yuval: Even if there's a wide latitude on scatology and name calling on Habonet I feel, that we've crossed into the unacceptable. See below Amnon



You're kinda like a putz.

Phil

At 01:17 PM 1/12/2007 +0200, Jonathan Baum wrote: >Steve, here's some more: > >http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-mindcontrol-new-left.html > >It's kinda like the stuff Phil sends in. > >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Steve Klein >Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:42 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Fw: Evil Israel > > > > > > I found some great stuff for the "group". [...] 24734 41 14_Re: NETIQUETTE11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:17:04 -0800 24776 232 14_Re: NETIQUETTE11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:19:29 -0700614_us-ascii Another one heard from.

What hypocrisy. What happened? Did you run out of biblical bullcrap to sling? Who died and made you the arbiter of acceptability?

Phil

At 03:47 PM 1/12/2007 -0500, amnon hadary wrote:

>Noam and Yuval: Even if there's a wide latitude on scatology and name >calling on Habonet I feel, that we've crossed into the unacceptable. See >below "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> > >Amnon > > > > > >You're kinda like a putz. > > > >Phil > > > >At 01:17 PM 1/12/2007 +0200, Jonathan Baum wrote: > > >Steve, here's [...] 25009 400 14_Re: NETIQUETTE0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:49:10 -0500589_us-ascii For what its worth, I'll add my $.02 worth. I personally find the name calling, personal attacks and pettiness that plays out in Habonet not the environment I want to see in my "community." That's right, community. That was the idealistic idea behind Habonet when a few of us created it years ago. We envisioned it as being more than a "stam" listserv but rather a meeting place for bogrei Habonim to reconnect, discuss (argue), share stories, etc. It has worked pretty well, but the atmosphere has changed over the years. If this is what people want, that's your collective [...] 25410 151 14_Re: NETIQUETTE11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:02:19 -0500403_iso-8859-1 thanks Ken for saying it better than I ever could.

and let me just encourage all you lurkers out there - the more voices are heard, the less any one voice or group of voices will control the level of the conversation or the tone.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: Re: NETIQUETTE [...] 25562 246 14_Re: NETIQUETTE11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Fri, 12 Jan 2007 23:30:12 -0500357_us-ascii Ken how well put....many times, I skip some messages, not because I am not interested, but because I really don;t care for the tone it is sent. Todah for speaking out for so many of us. Sylvia



-----Original Message----- From: nstopak@STARPOWER.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:02 PM Subject: Re: NETIQUETTE [...] 25809 477 14_Re: NETIQUETTE14_Allan Pristoop17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Sat, 13 Jan 2007 02:55:01 -0500632_iso-8859-1 Well said. A nasty tone supersedes the content of the message and results in a rapid reflex with the delete button. ----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:49 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: NETIQUETTE



For what its worth, I'll add my $.02 worth. I personally find the name calling, personal attacks and pettiness that plays out in Habonet not the environment I want to see in my "community." That's right, community. That was the idealistic idea behind Habonet when a few of us created it years ago. We envisioned it as being more [...] 26287 223 14_Re: NETIQUETTE13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:02:20 -0500516_iso-8859-1 I don't think I could have said it better than Ken or Noam. Just recently there was a person that does not usually post, that decided to ask a question. The question was good, and it was well discussed, I thought. I think everyone that partcipated in that discussion (I did not) may have come out with some good food for thought. I did. shabbat shalom, ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:02 PM Subject: Re: NETIQUETTE [...] 26511 130 38_Re: NETIQUETTE- a little suggestion...12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 13 Jan 2007 09:52:43 -0800338_iso-8859-1 Thank you Ken from me also...One suggestion- if you want to be "cynical with a smile"- which happens often on this list- then put the smiley face ( :) ) after your writing so we know and don't take it as a nasty smack......It may be "childish"- but it helps when reading the written word to get some kind of "tone"....Sue [...] 26642 372 14_Re: NETIQUETTE19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Sat, 13 Jan 2007 20:46:24 -0500 27015 847 44_Fwd: Analysis about Israeli raid in Ramallah12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM31_Sun, 14 Jan 2007 10:09:43 +0300492_ISO-8859-1 I would like the comments of our chaverim to this e-mail.

Meir

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: PMC Date: Jan 10, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: Analysis about Israeli raid in Ramallah To: Undisclosed-Recipient







Dear Journalists,

Attached analysis about Israeli raid in Ramallah written by Palestinian journalist Mohammed Mar'i. He can be reached on: E-mail: mmaree63@gmail.com Mobile: 0544265199 [...] 27863 50 14_light a candle16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 14 Jan 2007 05:27:20 -0800400_iso-8859-1 Bristol-Myers is donating a dollar to AIDS every time someone goes to their website and moves the match to the candle and lights it.

Please forward this to your friends to spread. It takes a second to raise a dollar.

https://www.lighttounite.org/



--------------------------------- Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. [...] 27914 47 18_Re: light a candle0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:21:55 EST535_US-ASCII Not any more........they reached their cap.

See http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/charity/lighttounite.asp

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 27962 60 39_My Reactions to a Recent Trip to Israel12_Shai Gluskin16_shai@GLUSKIN.ORG31_Sun, 14 Jan 2007 15:17:49 -0500483_ISO-8859-1 Hello Habonetters,

This is Shai aka Sam Gluskin - 25th workshop from Gilboa (LA) now living in Philly.

I just returned from a family trip to Israel. My wife Sarah and my kids Sophia (12) and Gabriel (9) spent 12 days visiting friends and family and doing a little bit of touring. It was my first time back since 2001 and Sarah's first trip since '92. It was our kids' first experience in Israel. The kids were awesome travelers and we had a lot of fun. [...] 28023 56 18_Re: light a candle16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 14 Jan 2007 14:41:12 -0800589_iso-8859-1 At the bottom of the page is says that they may react by raising the maximum contribution cap. One has to have hope.

DebALev@AOL.COM wrote: Not any more........they reached their cap.

See http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/charity/lighttounite.asp

--------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ [...] 28080 546 43_Re: Analysis about Israeli raid in Ramallah15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 01:05:42 -0800354_iso-8859-1 Hi there Meir. It's extremely disturbing and lends a lot of credence to a description I hear more and more lately: That Israel has become an army that has a state. David ----- Original Message ----- From: Meir Hurwitz To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 11:09 PM Subject: Fwd: Analysis about Israeli raid in Ramallah [...] 28627 78 15_Re: Evil Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:17:56 -0800669_iso-8859-1 Noam

Back from a great (but short) trip.

In my personal lexicon, "solid friend of Israel" means someone who, among other traits, sees the people and government of Israel as hugely and unremmitingly beleagured by powerful elements hungry for their destruction.

"Solid friend of Israel" means someone who expects to find faults and flaws and blemishes, but does so without the extremes of condemnation that have become so de riguer among the self-appointed critics and other "useful idiots". ("Useful idiots" being those that are well-intentioned but are unnecessarily harsh in their judgement of a nation that is daily attempting to [...] 28706 313 27_Fw: The Leica Freedom Train11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:32:11 -0800471_iso-8859-1 AOL Email

For those of us that may have missed this first times around.

Steve





I found this interesting. Thought you might too

Howard The Leica is the pioneer 35mm camera. It is a German product -precise, minimalist, and utterly efficient. Behind its worldwide acceptance as a creative tool was a family-owned, socially oriented firm that, during the Nazi era, acted with uncommon grace, generosity and modesty. [...] 29020 452 47_Fw: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:35:37 -0800465_Windows-1252

Passing this along (unverified).

Enjoy.

Steve







Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:



Surprisingly, in 2006 Israel's economy grew by 4.8 percent, a rate higher than that of any country in the West. Inflation remained at zero and, for the first time, exports exceeded imports (by $2.2 billion). The Bank of Israel forecasts that next year this figure will reach $5.3 billion. [...] 29473 1745 17_Fw: Boxer's stand11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 09:57:17 -0800636_iso-8859-1

For those following the CAIR story:

Steve



Message-ID: <1b62a01c7366d$1fcc3400$3c1f70d0@h104701>



Home I Donate to ACT I Subscribe to ACT I Join ACT Today I Petitions I Contact Congress

Boxer's stand

Dear Irwin,



Boxer's stand Will Senator's rebuff of CAIR mark a turning point? By Joel Mowbray The Washington Times

In what could be either a major turning point or just an aberration, Sen. Barbara Boxer recently rescinded an award given to a California resident because of his position with the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). [...] 31219 254 15_Re: Evil Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:08:14 -0800507_iso-8859-1 Sharon

I sincerely hope you didn't mean "abated" breath !

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Evil Israel



All of us solid friends of Israel wait with bated breath. -Sharon



----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 8:05:43 AM Subject: Re: Evil Israel [...] 31474 254 30_Fw: Anti-Semitism is justified11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:17:14 -0800478_iso-8859-1

Forwarded

Steve



Subject: Anti-Semitism is justified



I wonder if this is how it began in pre-NAZI Germany?

Dr. Watson: Anti-Semitism Justified

Scientist James D. Watson, co-discoverer of the structure of DNA and a Nobel Prize winner, says anti-Semitism is justified, in a recent magazine interview.

The ADL called Dr. Watson's remarks about Jews "disturbing" and is asking Watson to clarify them. [...] 31729 130 27_Re: The Leica Freedom Train11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 12:15:50 -0700258_us-ascii Thanks for this one Steve. Now I feel better about some of my photo equipment and won't feel such shpilkes when I look at the images. Can you do the same for a GMC I own? Then, if you have time, I have an IBM laptop that could use an exorcism. [...] 31860 117 38_Re: The Leica Freedom Train-to Phil...12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 14:40:10 -0800367_iso-8859-1 Phil- JTA did an intense, 4-part expose on GM's involvment with OPEL and Hitler- even to the point of naming them in the turnover of public-electric transportation- to diesel fuel, thereby developing our dependence on oil...it was a very interesting series...You might still, if interested-catch it on www.jta.org- the website, under "features"...sue [...] 31978 129 15_Re: Evil Israel12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 15 Jan 2007 15:45:16 -0800640_ascii Wow! I wonder if analogous qualifications could make one a solid friend of the U.S. I've always considered myself a solid friend of Israel, but if one has to couch every opinion or analysis in defensive rhetoric, then I guess I don't qualify :-( -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:17:56 AM Subject: Re: Evil Israel Noam Back from a great (but short) trip. In my personal lexicon, "solid friend of Israel" means someone who, among other traits, sees the people and government of Israel as hugely and unremmitingly beleagured [...] 32108 694 56_Fwd: Re: Fw: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:28:59 -0500460_us-ascii In the old days of Habonim we used to disagree about socialism. Were we for socialism or watered-down social justice. "Which side are we on" now? Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32803 759 47_Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:20:51 -0500417_utf-8 Amnon, to some of us they were both the same.....years ago. Today, I still believe in social justice and working at it in my own way...there are all kinds of fights. As far as socialism...where is it today. Sylvia



-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 1:28 AM Subject: Fwd: Re: Fw: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006: [...] 33563 960 47_Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 12:37:54 -0500558_windows-1252 Sylvia you ask: >as far as socialism...where is it today. Last time I looked it was to be found (warts and all) on kibbutzim. I don't claim that it was a triumph of theory over human nature. Clearly the same can be said for honesty. So in order not to argue what it should or even can be I went looking and found an objective description. If we can agree and others care to join in the fun I ask, socialism anyone? "Socialism, general term for the political and economic theory that advocates a system of collective or government ownership [...] 34524 281 80_Socialism and Moviemaking- was///Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 10:13:19 -0800601_iso-8859-1 The very irst lesson I learned fom an experienced producer was thet fact that-while in "film school" one is taught the "pecking order of important people when making a film ( and therfore participating iin a creative expression)- the most importan thing to know was that the pecking order ( from prodcucer-to director-actors-down to the rest of the bunch -often including the writers) was baloney- and that every person- from grip to craft service to drivers was as important as the other- that the production side was a huge machine- and if one screw was loose- the whole thing could [...] 34806 733 84_Re: Socialism and Moviemaking- was///Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:31:05 -0500495_utf-8 Shalom Amnon, I agree with you that if we are to look for socilism, we can look at the kibbutz,,,,but I alao understand that there are so many changes on the kibbutz....is it socialiam or is it something else. I am not saying that the change is bad (it is not for me to do so since I never made aliya but I do have many years of Habonim under my belt and I know from when my son lived in Israel that the kibbutz is not what we thought of when we were growing up in the movement. This [...] 35540 41 84_Re: Socialism and Moviemaking- was///Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:59:23 -0500491_iso-8859-1 Sue wrote in part:



>...I have found that my Habonim > background and socialist approach has helped so much > when you see "injustices" beingn committed- I don't > think that the concept has died- only we have > different ways of implementing it....We are all human- > as SHakespeare said..."do I not bleed"--etc....and no > one is "batter" than anyone else--Perhaps the creators > of the Consitutiona dn Declaration of Independence > felt the same way...sue > [...] 35582 326 25_Re: Rumba and Minipiccolo0_23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:10:43 -0500 35909 86 84_Re: Socialism and Moviemaking- was///Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 17:14:59 -0800645_iso-8859-1 The interesting thing about your comments, Noam, is that the WOmen's movement actually used this argument to further the plight of females,or the suffregettes with votiing-- as did Lincoln in his push for the end of slavery--That "Men" wasn't supposed to mean "men" with a small "m"- but "humanity"--without these "changing" interpretations, we might well be where we were in 1776.....I suppose what I am saying is that while the kibbutz may change, while we may live in different times and in different places, certain socialistic values which are universally "good"- remain...sue --- Noam Stopak wrote: [...] 35996 116 84_Re: Socialism and Moviemaking- was///Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 21:27:31 -0500539_iso-8859-1 And I agree with the changed interpretation and I agree that the values we learned in the movement were good. But I also think the points I made reflect the values and thought of the framers of the Constitution at the time it was written (hence the need for a suffragette movement, a Lincoln and a civil rights movement) and so I thought it an odd point for you to make. We can be proud that the founders were progressive for their time, but should be even more proud of the progress we have made since, and that there are [...] 36113 171 84_Re: Socialism and Moviemaking- was///Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:17:54 -0800537_iso-8859-1 Amen!..... --- Noam Stopak wrote:

> And I agree with the changed interpretation and I > agree that the values we > learned in the movement were good. But I also think > the points I made > reflect the values and thought of the framers of the > Constitution at the > time it was written (hence the need for a > suffragette movement, a Lincoln > and a civil rights movement) and so I thought it an > odd point for you to > make. We can be proud that the founders were > progressive for their [...] 36285 620 47_Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:52:28 +0300634_WINDOWS-1252 I think that it is VERY important to differentiate between two polar concepts of socialism. 1. State socialism where the objective is to gain the power of the State (democratically of course even though there were blatant examples of non-democratic means). Once the State is a "socialist" one then the education and the laws and the media could be controlled to further more cooperation and participation by the population. What was called - the "withering of the State". 2. Social socialism where the primary examples are the kibbutzim and communes around the world (participatory democracy) and also many forms of [...] 36906 1125 47_Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 19 Jan 2007 10:09:01 -0500616_windows-1252



Hi Meir, You're right of course - I should add, as usual. But I was referring to the neshamah of socialism we had here until the '80s more or less. Don't call it socialism call it a caring humane society. in the words of David Grossman at the memorial for Rabin: in an amazingly short time, Israel has degenerated into heartlessness, real cruelty toward the weak, the poor, and the suffering. Israel displays indifference to the hungry, the elderly, the sick, and the handicapped, equanimity in the face of, for example, trafficking in women, or the exploitation of foreign workers [...] 38032 251 47_Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 19 Jan 2007 09:56:08 -0800598_iso-8859-1 You know what, Amnon, take a little step backwards and look at what Israel HAS accomplished in its short life. while at the same time having to fight for its very life every single day; that every breath it takes is a miracle. I don't think that these problems are being ignored. Witness Israel's entry last year into the Academy Awards- "Eizeh Makom Nifla"- or the consistent begging for funds to help the needy and sick and hungry...or the exposes coming out every day.... And the flurry of cooperative ventures in the multi-ethnic social scheme (wasn't your grandaughter part of [...] 38284 809 47_Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 19 Jan 2007 15:49:24 -0500571_iso-8859-1 Sue, You wrote >and while it may be a hard reality to face, > that in this fast-paced worl, there will be those > "left nehind"- at least it is recognized and people > are talking and doing things about it- rather than, > like our President in this county-putting one's head > in the sand and ignoring the very truths of horrendous > situations....sue If the President of Israel would restrict where he puts his head to the sand box the country would be in better shape. I'm talking of Ministers of Labor, Social Welfare, Health, Housing, Education. have [...] 39094 245 47_Re: Highlights of Israeli achievements in 2006:12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 19 Jan 2007 12:58:20 -0800561_iso-8859-1 There are movements all over Israel about changing the way the government works--People need to speak up....it's nothing new that politicians are corrupt and shady....why should Israel be different? ( well- we know why it SHOULD)...but I know of movements to change things....There is now an Arab minister in the cabinet for the first time....We are living in horrible times where real leadership is nowhere to be seen...Perhaps Obama is the closest thing we have to some new kind of leadership here...Why don't YOU do something about it!!! sue [...] 39340 392 38_Beilin on Carter's book in the Forward13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 20 Jan 2007 12:33:24 -0500560_iso-8859-1 I haven't read the book. My impression so far from de dozen articles I've read about it, and from somewhat being familiar with Carter's manner of thinking, was just confirmed by the leader of political party I vote for in Israel: Carter is warning Israel and Jews that the non-pursuit of peace with all keenness possible seems to be leading the area to some kind of apartheid. I was personally never scared or offended by the use of the word by Carter, just more curious to see how well he does make his case. Yosi Beilin seems to think Carter [...] 39733 476 42_Re: Beilin on Carter's book in the Forward11_David Sokal14_dsokal@MSN.COM31_Sat, 20 Jan 2007 13:03:36 -0800619_iso-8859-1 Yes. me too. David ----- Original Message ----- From: Yuval Warshai To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 9:33 AM Subject: Beilin on Carter's book in the Forward



I haven't read the book. My impression so far from de dozen articles I've read about it, and from somewhat being familiar with Carter's manner of thinking, was just confirmed by the leader of political party I vote for in Israel: Carter is warning Israel and Jews that the non-pursuit of peace with all keenness possible seems to be leading the area to some kind of apartheid. I was personally never scared [...] 40210 183 42_Re: Beilin on Carter's book in the Forward0_23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 20 Jan 2007 19:08:32 -0500 40394 341 46_Latest Washington spy scandal involving Israel11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 20 Jan 2007 20:04:51 -0700625_iso-8859-1 http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16234.htm

Agents of Influence By Robert Dreyfuss

01/20/07 "The Nation" -- -- Did Ariel Sharon, the Prime Minister of Israel, run a covert program with operatives in high-level US government positions to influence the Bush Administration's decision to go to war in Iraq? The FBI wants to know.

That's the story behind the latest Washington spy scandal, involving Israel, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) and a mid-level civilian Pentagon employee allegedly caught red-handed trying to deliver US secrets to the Israelis. [...] 40736 41 24_Civil Rights Music Query19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Sun, 21 Jan 2007 00:03:34 -0500 40778 122 54_Alexander Cockburn: First Bomb Carter; Then Nuke Iran!11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sun, 21 Jan 2007 09:09:54 -0700642_iso-8859-1 First Bomb Carter; Then Nuke Iran! The Israel Lobby Trips and Tilts

By Alexander Cockburn

http://www.counterpunch.org/

Suppose the movers and shakers in the Israel lobby here -- Abe Foxman, Alan Dershowitz and the rest of the crew -- had simply decided to leave Jimmy Carter’s Palestine Peace Not Apartheid alone. How long before the book would have been gathering dust on the remainder shelves? Suppose even that Dershowitz had rounded up his unacknowledged co-authors in all their tens of thousands and sallied forth to buy up every copy of Carter’s book and toss each one into the Charles River, would [...] 40901 144 58_Re: Alexander Cockburn: First Bomb Carter; Then Nuke Iran!0_23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 21 Jan 2007 22:38:55 -0500680_UTF-8 Thank you, Phil for the Alexander Cockburn essay. I will hand that out as well at the Carter Brandeis University protests this Tuesday.

Thanks again, ole buddy.



Jack Nusan Porter

-----Original Message----- >From: Phil Safier >Sent: Jan 21, 2007 11:09 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Alexander Cockburn: First Bomb Carter; Then Nuke Iran! > >First Bomb Carter; Then Nuke Iran! >The Israel Lobby Trips and Tilts > >By Alexander Cockburn > >http://www.counterpunch.org/ > >Suppose the movers and shakers in the Israel lobby here -- Abe Foxman, Alan >Dershowitz and the rest of the crew -- had simply decided to leave [...] 41046 62 23_Living in Harlan County15_Nechemia Meyers23_meyers@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:37:01 +0200546_windows-1255 Chavrim. It is hard for me to understand how many contriibutors to Habont are so suppportive of Alexander Cockburn and Jimmy Cartr and so hostile to Abe Forman and Alan Dershovitz. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that they are well out of rocket range. In this context some of you old-timers may remember one of the union songs we sang many decades ago iin Habonim. It was called "Which Side are yoiu own"? It went: "They say in Harlan County there are no neutrals there, you either or a union man or a scab for G. [...] 41109 165 27_Re: Living in Harlan County13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:22:41 +0200393_us-ascii Well said Nechemia. There seem to be a group of folks here who believe that the enemy is not radical Islamic terror but rather the Republicans and that any device to undermine them, including those that threaten the security - and even the survival - of the State of Israel is permissible, Sad, really, for a community that fancies itself Zionist. Which side are you on, indeed. [...] 41275 72 27_Re: Living in Harlan County13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 03:18:36 -0800562_iso-8859-1 There are many right-wing Jews in Israel (and many non-Jewish Russian immigrants too) who label the leader of the party I vote for (and myself too, of course), Yossi Beilin, a traitor. Much in the same manner they once labeled Yitzchak Rabin z"l a traitor too. The reason the direct threats to Beilin are not more direct or dangerous is that he is not in power. We all know what happened to Rabin, who was in power. What Nechemia and Jon are saying is basically the same: we, who support Jimmy Carter's attempt to change the deadly course of the [...] 41348 220 40_Divisiveness was Living in Harlan County12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:01:10 -0500590_us-ascii I believe that while geography may have an impact on ones weltanshaung that it is unwaranted to assume that where one lives colors ones politics. Arguably, where one lives has a lot to do with who one reads. So I haven't been following Alexander Cockburn and Jimmy Carter too cloesely. What one does for a living probably has more impact on what she/he believes or espouses. I believe that since attorney Dershowitz defends unsavory but monied killers and that Foxman heads up the Antidefamation Leaugue they share a need to display an "in your face" stance. Both of them are [...] 41569 317 36_Re: Living in Harlan County & Carter0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:52:32 -0500314_us-ascii I think the issue is that while I do agree with much of Carter's view of what a final agreement between the Israelis and Palestinians might look like, the discussion is really around the book. I would add that I personally have great admiration for the man and his work before he published his book. [...] 41887 388 27_Re: Living in Harlan County13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:34:23 +0200637_us-ascii No Yuval, that's not what I'm saying. Everything isn't about Yossi Beilin,the territories and the Russians, about whom you seem to have a serious bee in your bonnet.I'm very sorry you don't like their political views but that's the risk you take in a democracy.

What it's about is the false and slanderous comparison between Israel and Apartheid-era South Africa. Everybody knows that racist South Africa was politically dismantled. Why not the racist Zionist entity? Our racism not doubt explains why we withdrew from Gaza and destroyed all our settlements there. Carter is trying to score cheap points against us. [...] 42276 182 28_WHOLLY COWS IN HARLAN COUNTY12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:57:13 -0500382_iso-8859-8 Capitalism and Cows





TRADITIONAL CAPITALISM -- You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. Your herd multiplies, and the economy grows. You sell them and retire on the income.

AN AMERICAN CORPORATION -- You have two cows. You sell one, and force the other to produce the milk of four cows. You are surprised when the cow drops dead. [...] 42459 434 22_This Place Called Hope16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 06:56:08 -0800360_iso-8859-1 A couple of months ago, I had an appointment with a new doctor, just hours before I had to fly to the States. We didn't know each other, this new doctor and I, but he seemed like a nice guy. I was in a rush, and needed to get back home to pack. All I wanted was my prescription, so I could get meds before I got on a fifteen hour flight to LA. [...] 42894 366 37_Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:39:53 -0500362_windows-1252 A couple of months ago, I had an appointment with a new doctor, just hours before I had to fly to the States. We didn't know each other, this new doctor and I, but he seemed like a nice guy. I was in a rush, and needed to get back home to pack. All I wanted was my prescription, so I could get meds before I got on a fifteen hour flight to LA. [...] 43261 26 14_Cockburn, etc.16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:09:36 -0500450_ISO-8859-1 Alexander Cockburn's writing still smacks of the same venom and anti-Israel bile that he's spewed for years. Anyone who takes him seriously is either snorting funny white powder or has just moved into a castle in the clouds without with the requisite parachute furnishings.

Ditto the Richard Dreyfuss piece from The Nation forwarded here yesterday. It was a fabulous exercise in Creative Writing 101 seasoned with bubbemeises. [...] 43288 666 26_Re: This Place Called Hope12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:51:23 -0800576_iso-8859-1 I generally read posts to this list with the idea in mind that they are written by the poster, unless they say "Forward" or some other identifier somewhere in the subject or the beginning of the message. As I started reading this one, I thought, "oh, I didn't know that was what Rosalind did for a living." Then I realized that it was another forwarded Daniel Gordis article. While Gordis's articles may be interesting, I (for one) would appreciate if they were more clearly identified as forwards when they are posted to this list. I suppose I should get out [...] 43955 253 27_Re: Living in Harlan County12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 09:54:04 -0800646_iso-8859-1 No, it's not all about Yossi Beilin, the territories, and the Russians. But this "you're either for us or you're for the terrorists" is as counter-productive with respect to Al Quida as it is w.r.t. the Palestinians. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 6:34:23 AM Subject: Re: Living in Harlan County No Yuval, that's not what I'm saying. Everything isn't about Yossi Beilin,the territories and the Russians, about whom you seem to have a serious bee in your bonnet.I'm very sorry you don't like their political views but that's the [...] 44209 1838 41_Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:54:46 -0500544_windows-1252 I'll give Gordis this, he knows how to write. My less than enthusiastic reading of his frequent lengthy pieces is what he chooses to write about and his ex cathedra manner. He sounds like a professional writer of copy for a fund drive. No commitment unless he tells his readers that we need COMMITMENT. He tells you about his doctor and his general - if you don't have a general you're not a maven if you don't have a doctor you must live in the boon Doc's or South Tel Aviv. He sounds mellifuous - like a well tenured rabbi. [...] 46048 243 26_Re: This Place Called Hope12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:45:38 -0800470_iso-8859-1 WELL--I SUPPOSE IT'S ME. DANIEL GORDIS IS A PRETTY WELL-KNOWN WRITER. HE MADE ALIYAH FROM BALTIMORE, AND HAS A FEW KIDS- ( INTERESTINGLY HE HAS TWO SONS -ONE NAMED AVI AND MICHA)....I WOULDN'T "WHINE" ABOUT HAVING TO READ HIS STUFF- SINCE I AT ;LEAST FIND IT VERY INTERESTING AND OFTEN "TO THE POINT"--HE IS SOMEONE WHO HAS THE SAME KINDS OF VALUES WE HAVE..AND WORRIES ABOUT THE FUTURE OF JEWISH PEOPLE...IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ IT- JUST DELETE...SUE [...] 46292 243 52_Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope- FOR AMNON12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:49:47 -0800496_iso-8859-1 Look- as far as committment- Danny Gordis made aliyah from Baltimore and is raising his kids in Jerusalem. His daughther is now in the army....you can find out more about him at his website ( www.danielgordis.org)...But please don't make such harsh judgements abotu him without knowing his story. Personally, I think he is pretty cool, and cares deeply abotu Israel and his roots. If you don't like him, don't read him, but don't put judgements out abouthim without knowing!- Sue [...] 46536 297 52_Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope- FOR AMNON12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 16:15:11 -0500630_us-ascii Sounds like good advice. Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman Date: Monday, January 22, 2007 3:04 pm Subject: Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope- FOR AMNON To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Look- as far as committment- Danny Gordis made aliyah > from Baltimore and is raising his kids in Jerusalem. > His daughther is now in the army....you can find out > more about him at his website ( > www.danielgordis.org)...But please don't make such > harsh judgements abotu him without knowing his story. > Personally, I think he is pretty cool, and cares > deeply abotu [...] 46834 293 52_Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope- FOR AMNON12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 13:29:51 -0800649_iso-8859-1 No, save your judgements for your chevre on Habonet :-{ -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Sue Liberman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:49:47 AM Subject: Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope- FOR AMNON Look- as far as committment- Danny Gordis made aliyah from Baltimore and is raising his kids in Jerusalem. His daughther is now in the army....you can find out more about him at his website ( www.danielgordis.org)...But please don't make such harsh judgements abotu him without knowing his story. Personally, I think he is pretty cool, and cares deeply abotu Israel and [...] 47128 233 52_Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope- FOR AMNON12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:15:36 -0800591_iso-8859-1 ...Something I learned from an old madrich...:)..sue

--- amnon hadary wrote:

> Sounds like good advice. > Amnon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sue Liberman > Date: Monday, January 22, 2007 3:04 pm > Subject: Re: Danny Gordis - This Place Called Hope- > FOR AMNON > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > > Look- as far as committment- Danny Gordis made > aliyah > > from Baltimore and is raising his kids in > Jerusalem. > > His daughther is now in the army....you can find > out > > more about him at his website [...] 47362 152 27_Fw: Living in Harlan County11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:36:47 -0500603_iso-8859-1 Forwarded for Richard Smith who is having trouble posting to the list

----- Original Message ----- From: richard smith To: nstopak@STARPOWER.NET Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Living in Harlan County



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It sounds like a joke when you, Jon, accuse someone else of over-simplifying things (i.e. "Everything isn't about ...") You seem to claim that all problems in the world are caused by Islamists. Can't get much more simple than that. [...] 47515 580 36_Re: Living in Harlan County & Carter13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 17:48:37 -0500633_iso-8859-1 Ken.

I've browsed over the web site you point to. I saw the 10 points the guy raises and they resemble a lot all the Jewish establishment knee-jerk criticism of Carter's book I've been reading. One thing that jumped at me is in the end where it says:

"He served as senior foreign press editor and translator in the Israel Prime Minister's Office during the Egyptian-Israeli peace process from 1977-1978." I.e., he was a prime-minister's office apparatchik in whose tenure as Israel's prime minister? Menachem Begin. Not very recommending credentials in my view for a candidate to having impartial views [...] 48096 1280 56_Distrust, disrespect & slap-in-face to diaspora Jewry...16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:08:57 -0500595_us-ascii



Haaretz israel news English Last update - 06:01 21/11/2006

Chief Rabbinate prepares bill to remove converts from Law of Return By Amiram Barkat, Haaretz Correspondent







Converts will no longer be recognized as Jews under the Law of Return, according to a bill formulated by the Chief Rabbinate and presented to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert a few days ago. The revolutionary bill is now awaiting a decision by the prime minister whether to make it a government-sponsored bill. [...] 49377 476 27_Re: Living in Harlan County13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:12:38 -0500550_iso-8859-1 MessageFirst Saddam had the nukes and he was going to fry us in a new holocaust in the next half hour. Then Begin sent the glorious Jewish air force and bombed the Osirack French reactor in 1981. As a bonus for being such a great defender of Jewish purity and sacredness in the face of holocaust perpertrators all over the world he also won the Israeli elections three weeks later. But Saddam persisted in his evil designs to burn the Jews in a new atomic holocaust until 2003, when the brave Bush finally came in to rid the world of [...] 49854 276 27_Re: Living in Harlan County11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 18:55:50 -0500538_iso-8859-1 MessageReally Yuval, this is too much. "Only America and Israel will ever be allowed to have weapons of mass destruction"? Have you forgotten the recent US atomic deal with India? Or Bush sitting idly by as North Korea went nuclear?

And Jon, please, it isn't about scoring points against Bush, it's about turning away from a pack of lawless liars and reclaiming our democracy. Someday maybe we will even have voting representation for people who live in Washington DC. Stranger things are rumored to have happened. [...] 50131 339 60_Re: Distrust, disrespect & slap-in-face to diaspora Jewry...0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 19:20:17 -0800360_utf-8 These folks remind me of the abortion activists. With all the problems in the world; Darfur, Iraq, global warming, terrorism, etc. this is what they worry about?

Certainly there must be more important issues for the Chief Rabbi and the Israeli government to worry about.

Norm ---- "Elihu D. Davison" wrote: [...] 50471 470 36_Re: Living in Harlan County & Carter0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:10:04 -0500558_us-ascii Yuval:

I have read your email three times trying to decide how to respond. Here is my best (and brief) answer.

The opinion you have developed about the author, Doni Remba, is unfair and unwise. You don't know anything about the person except for the fact that he worked in the prime minister's office 26 years ago for one year. It happened to be the year that Sadat came to Jerusalem; could that be hint? From that you decide he can't be objective on the Carter book? What if he chosen to put as his identification that he is the [...] 50942 587 27_Re: Living in Harlan County13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:40:50 +0200644_us-ascii Thank you, Yuval, for proving my point.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Yuval Warshai Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 1:13 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Living in Harlan County



First Saddam had the nukes and he was going to fry us in a new holocaust in the next half hour. Then Begin sent the glorious Jewish air force and bombed the Osirack French reactor in 1981. As a bonus for being such a great defender of Jewish purity and sacredness in the face of holocaust perpertrators all over the world he also [...] 51530 382 27_Re: Living in Harlan County13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 08:37:12 +0200466_us-ascii Noam,

"Reclaiming our democracy!" Really? Is that your attitude when your party is out of power? How about the last mid-terms? Have you partially "reclaimed your democracy?"

Vox populi, vox dei.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 1:56 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Living in Harlan County [...] 51913 364 24_Faculty of the hard Left13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 12:24:18 +0200530_windows-1255 Faculty of the hard Left

_____

AMNON RUBINSTEIN , THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 22, 2007 _____



Tel Aviv University's Faculty of Law held a conference on January 8 entitled "Security prisoners or political prisoners?" According to the original plan, all the scheduled speakers were from the Left, with some coming from the extreme, anti-Israeli Left. When this triggered an outcry, the faculty heads hurriedly added a couple of speakers representing mainstream Israel and its institutions. [...] 52278 179 36_Re: Living in Harlan County & Carter13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 02:54:40 -0800538_iso-8859-1 Ken,

I didn't think it was going to be convincing to you or to anyone else. As I said, and I think you agree, the only way to pass judgement is to read the book yourself and decide. I'd like to, but I don't think it's very practical or likely in the near future. Good to know Mr. Remba is president of Chicago Peace Now. chazak veematz. Again, some of his 10 points look to me overdone. It's like the simple use of the work 'apartheid' can bring about who knows what. Well, maybe they're right. It wouldn't be nice [...] 52458 140 21_German Archives facts16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 04:03:29 -0800571_iso-8859-1 Unfolded German archives Facts !!!









A long-secret German archive Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 08:56:32



http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=2274705n

îééì æä îéåòã ìäâéò ì – 40 îéìéåï àðùéí áøçáé!

Dear Friends





It always time to remember and be ready against any new disasters.





This story was aired on Sunday, Dec. 17 (7PM ET/PT on CBS) on "60 MINUTES"

About a long-secret German archive that houses a treasure trove of [...] 52599 593 36_Re: Living in Harlan County & Carter0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 07:11:15 -0500385_us-ascii Yuval:

You may be right about some of Mr. Remba's points, but I am a "don't throw the baby out with the bath water" sort of guy. In any case, let's move on.

Thanks for the clarification on the part about your personal relationship with the Holocaust and its use by and within the Jewish community. I am glad we can be here to listen. I mean that seriously. [...] 53193 45 24_Re: reclaiming democracy11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:02:28 -0500447_us-ascii Jon,

It has nothing to do with which party is in power, and everything to do with the use and abuse of power. Runs the gamit from questionable voting machines, mishandling of voting roles, loss of habeas corpus rights, invasion of privacy, disregard for FISA, blatant disregard for legislation the executive doesn't care for, and the list goes on. After 6 years it is so long I'm sure I've forgotten more than I can remember. [...] 53239 235 24_Re: reclaiming democracy11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Tue, 23 Jan 2007 09:26:23 -0500653_us-ascii You put it so well Noam. Sylvia



-----Original Message----- From: nstopak@STARPOWER.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: reclaiming democracy



Jon,

It has nothing to do with which party is in power, and everything to do with the use and abuse of power. Runs the gamit from questionable voting machines, mishandling of voting roles, loss of habeas corpus rights, invasion of privacy, disregard for FISA, blatant disregard for legislation the executive doesn't care for, and the list goes on. After 6 years it is so long I'm sure I've forgotten more than I can remember. [...] 53475 135 15_Re: Evil Israel11_David Sokal14_dsokal@MSN.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 05:36:21 -0800611_iso-8859-1 my response to Steve's passionate description of "solid friend of Israel" below. (my comments follow each of Steve's original paragraphs).

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" To: Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Evil Israel

Noam

Back from a great (but short) trip.

In my personal lexicon, "solid friend of Israel" means someone who, among other traits, sees the people and government of Israel as hugely and unremmitingly beleagured by powerful elements hungry for their destruction. [...] 53611 207 15_Re: Evil Israel12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 08:13:38 -0800622_iso-8859-1 Thank you, David, for taking the time to write this response. You have said a lot of what I only thought in response to Steve's post. Being a more recent addition to the (shall we say) left-leaning Habonet wing, you appear to have a bit more energy to counter the stuff Steve so prolifically sends our way. Many hands make light work. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: David Sokal To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:36:21 AM Subject: Re: Evil Israel my response to Steve's passionate description of "solid friend of Israel" below. (my comments follow each [...] 53819 231 20_Moral Compass Adrift0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 11:36:07 EST641_UTF-8 _Sever Plocker_ (http://www.ynetnews.com/headlines/1,7340,L-3148,00.html)

Israel's image hits nadir No great honor being an Israeli at Davos this year, but we deserve it Published: 01.24.07, 17:30

My advice to those planning to attend the World Economic Forum Annual Meeting at the prestigious Swiss ski resort of Davos is, I beg you, to stay away if you haven't yet boarded the plane. Please don't come, because it's no great honor being an Israeli this year at Davos. In fact, it’s humiliating. Israel is no longer viewed as a thriving, high tech superpower or even as a brutal occupation power. It is viewed in [...] 54051 374 24_Re: Moral Compass Adrift13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:54:13 +0200522_us-ascii I'm not going to Davos this year - not that I would mind - but if I were going I would point out to the folks there that what we manage to achieve in Israel is done in spite of our corrupt political class, not because of it. It would be truly wonderful if we could draft an entirely new group of people from business, the arts, academia, the Civil Service (OK, maybe not the Civil Service), Maccabbi Tel Aviv, the middle echelon of the IDF, etc. to run the country. Not bloody likely, but it's fun to dream. [...] 54426 74 24_Re: Moral Compass Adrift0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 12:19:33 EST362_US-ASCII

In a message dated 1/24/2007 11:56:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

It would be truly wonderful if we could draft an entirely new group of people from business, the arts, academia, the Civil Service (OK, maybe not the Civil Service), Maccabbi Tel Aviv, the middle echelon of the IDF, etc. to run the country. [...] 54501 526 15_Re: Evil Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:30:03 -0800318_iso-8859-1 Dear David

I am confused by some of your replies. But that is OK, as I know there will be disagreements as long as people exist. It doesn't make you a bad person, and I hope you don't think I am a bad person. I am glad you have given hope to Sharon, who may have thought she is alone out there. [...] 55028 113 71_Fw: Very interesting facts about investing in Israel and its Technology11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:42:18 -0800532_iso-8859-1 Passing this along to those that are thinking Israel is only high-profile sex and corruption scandals.

Steve





Subject: Very interesting facts about investing in Israel and its Technology Some idea of what's happening in the field of hi-tech and that's only the beginning.

Have a look and invest your money in Israel.

Outstanding clip about Israel "beyond the conflict." Please continue to forward the link below. http://www.telecom-israel.com/video.php?file=InvestInIsrael [...] 55142 692 65_Fw: ACTION ALERT CORRECTION: KQED at 9 am, KALW at 10 on Wed A.M.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 09:35:43 -0800541_iso-8859-1 ACTION ALERT CORRECTION: KQED at 9 am, KALW at 10 on Wed A.M.















Jewish Community Relations Council of San Francisco, the Peninsula, Marin, Sonoma, Alameda and Contra Costa Counties

__________________________________________________________________ Index of Events a.. KQED's Forum to focus on Anti-Semitism Wednesday (Jan. 24) 9:00 a.m. - 88.5 FM

b.. KALW's Your Call to focus on Progressives and Anti-Semitism Wednesday (Jan. 24) 10:00 am - 91.7 FM [...] 55835 69 69_Re: Fw: ACTION ALERT CORRECTION: KQED at 9 am, KALW at 10 on Wed A.M.0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:14:39 EST414_US-ASCII Hi Steve,

Thanks for the Alert forward. My god...I listened to Forum just now as I do most many mornings and I'll be darned but the Alert was like Bush's et al Homeland Security code alerts.....much to do about nothing. I found the program to be quite a reasoned discussion void of all those anti-Semites/anti-Israelites whose voice you so solidly fear. They were probably otherwise occupied. [...] 55905 256 42_Re: Evil Israel-To David, Steve and Sharon12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:30:38 -0800549_iso-8859-1 I feel that Daniel Gordis' last article, "This Land of Hope"- is the real answer to all of this. In it, he talks about the deep depression, perhaps more to the point, the "clandestine depression" facing most Israelis today- that with all of the horrible things that go on, and no one is denying the problems, it still remains a place of hope, and th equestion now is can it continue to exist and can the problems, moral and otherise, be faced and dealt with. What I don't understand, David, is how you don't put any of the "ones" on [...] 56162 53 42_Re: Evil Israel-To David, Steve and Sharon11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:54:44 -0500514_us-ascii Sue,

It's funny how each person seems to read with an agenda.

As I read David's response to Steve's exposition of his definition of a friend of Israel, my impression was that he was saying that a true friend of Israel tries to see the fullness of reality, "Israel warts and all" if you will. I don't see where you think he is putting the entire onus on Israel or making excuses for the Palestinians. The topic wasn't "who shall we blame", it was the definition of "a friend of Israel". [...] 56216 54 43_Fw: How to get the booklet on Muslim rights11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 10:56:29 -0800759_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" To: "Steve Klein" Judy

I called CAIR and got a bit of a runaround.

Any more suggestions?

Steve



>

> Subject: How to get the booklet on Muslim rights and Responsibilities. > > >> Dear Steve, >> >> Call or write CAIR for the booklet.. It is not a secret organization. >> >> http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=Contact >> >> Wishing you a happy new year- >> Judy >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >> Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >> a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses [...] 56271 58 24_Re: Moral Compass Adrift14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:23:34 +0200499_iso-8859-1 MessageDespite all the problems we are having, and we certainly have a habit of being our own worst enemy, I'm sure that Israel would be welcomed at Davos. After all, Davos is an ECONOMIC forum. Israel's economy is thriving very nicely on the basis of the numbers, not governmental scandals. However, since the rest of world plays politics all of the time, I'm sure that someone would make an excuse to start a scandal. Quoting Tom Lehrer again - "... And everybody hates the Jews". [...] 56330 169 22_Re: California outrage14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:31:52 +0200674_iso-8859-1 MessageHere's something that Habonetters can sink their teeth into and do something about this situation...

Dave





Currently, students in the California State University system who wish to attend a university in Israel for a semester or year of study abroad do so at their own risk. While the U.S. State Department travel warning to Israel would impress upon these students minds and mindsets a grave risk of their personal safety, this risk is relatively minor in contrast to the academic risk that their experience at Israeli universities entails. In accordance with above mentioned warning, study abroad offices of UC campuses [...] 56500 91 52_Fwd: Re: Fw: How to get the booklet on Muslim rights11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:48:50 -0500434_us-ascii



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 56592 86 42_Re: Evil Israel-To David, Steve and Sharon11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 13:18:53 -0800359_iso-8859-1 Noam

Maybe you are right. I just think a true friend, by anyone's definition, doesn't get overly rough (or worse) in their criticism and condemnation. If I had a true friend be that negative for me, I'd dump the p---k in a New York minute. I was taught to surround myself with nourishing people and distance myself from the toxic ones. [...] 56679 50 22_Re: California outrage0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:32:41 -0800488_utf-8 After cheking with the University of California website all programs to israel were suspended in Spetember 2002 after the State Department issued a Travel Warning. All programs in the Phillipines were suspended also.

If we want the suspension ended we first must get the Travel Warning removed.

Norm Kane ---- Holtzer Family wrote: MessageHere's something that Habonetters can sink their teeth into and do something about this situation... [...] 56730 108 42_Re: Evil Israel-To David, Steve and Sharon11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 15:13:54 -0800318_UTF-8 On the other hand, a true friend tells it like it is, believing the friendship is stronger than the criticisim. I would hate to think that my best friend is not being honest with me to spare my feelings. I teach my kids to be honest, both in their friendships and ciritcism. So far it has worked very well. [...] 56839 330 42_Re: Evil Israel-To David, Steve and Sharon12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:15:39 -0800623_iso-8859-1 Sue- Why is this directed to me? Are you afraid I wouldn't read it unless I saw my name in the subject line? Aren't you concerned that other people who have contributed to this thread will feel slighted? -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Sue Liberman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:30:38 AM Subject: Re: Evil Israel-To David, Steve and Sharon I feel that Daniel Gordis' last article, "This Land of Hope"- is the real answer to all of this. In it, he talks about the deep depression, perhaps more to the point, the "clandestine depression" facing [...] 57170 90 22_Re: California outrage11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:50:47 -0500580_ISO-8859-1 This is true of almost every university and will be until the State Dept changes its advisories on travel to Israel. Many Jewish organizations have been working on this issue for the last couple years.

Judy

Holtzer Family wrote:

> *Here's something that Habonetters can sink their teeth into and do > something about this situation... * > > * Dave* > > ** > > *Currently, students in the California State University system who > wish to attend a university in Israel for a semester or year of study > abroad do so at their own risk. While the [...] 57261 71 47_Re: Fw: How to get the booklet on Muslim rights11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:52:45 -0500612_ISO-8859-1 Tell them your name is Suliman Kirbash and see if that helps. Judy

Steve Klein wrote:

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" > > To: "Steve Klein" > Judy > > I called CAIR and got a bit of a runaround. > > Any more suggestions? > > Steve > > >> > >> Subject: How to get the booklet on Muslim rights and Responsibilities. >> >> >>> Dear Steve, >>> >>> Call or write CAIR for the booklet.. It is not a secret organization. >>> >>> http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=Contact >>> >>> Wishing you a happy new year- [...] 57333 110 22_Re: California outrage11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:24:25 -0800539_us-ascii Is it the same for other countries under travel warnings, or just Israel?

Batel

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judy Gelman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:51 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: California outrage

This is true of almost every university and will be until the State Dept changes its advisories on travel to Israel. Many Jewish organizations have been working on this issue for the last couple years. [...] 57444 43 22_Re: California outrage0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:29:59 EST524_US-ASCII Univ of Wisconsin lifted its ban and Wisconsin students are currently studying at Hebrew Univ. Avi

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 57488 121 47_Re: Fw: How to get the booklet on Muslim rights0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:32:52 EST526_US-ASCII In a message dated 1/24/07 7:53:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:



> > Tell them your name is Suliman Kirbash and see if that helps. > Judy > > Steve Klein wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" > > > > To: "Steve Klein" > > Judy > > > > I called CAIR and got a bit of a runaround. > > > > Any more suggestions? > > > > Steve > > > > > >> > > > >> Subject: How to get the booklet on Muslim rights [...] 57610 263 42_Re: Evil Israel-To David, Steve and Sharon12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:35:17 -0800544_iso-8859-1 It was directed to people who answered my answer- and I thought would want to read it- and there might be people who aren't interested in reading it....wh would want to skip it.... Aside from that, I agree with Batel, but I also think that we are not giviing the Israeli public the benefit of the doubt. I am convinced that the majority of Israelis know what is right and wrong and what is bad behavior. WHat we need to remember is the fact that we don't know all of the nuamces going into certain military actions, and while I [...] 57874 123 22_Re: California outrage0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:44:01 -0800334_utf-8 The UC has also suspended its programs in the PHillipines because of the Travel Advisory. I do not think they had programs with most of the other nations listed by the State Department

Norm ---- Batel Libes wrote: Is it the same for other countries under travel warnings, or just Israel? [...] 57998 387 22_Re: California outrage0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 21:46:37 -0500353_us-ascii Just to clarify, U.S. college students can still attend semester and year long Israel University programs and get full credit. The difference is that they need to make their own arrangements and organize the acceptance of credits with their University. My daughter did so this past year along with her U.S. classmates at Haifa University. [...] 58386 1663 22_Re: California outrage11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 19:14:22 -0800305_us-ascii From reading the information on the UC website, it appears as if they have to reapply for admittance and forfeit any financial aid qualifications for they may have set up. The UC website, however, does have links to Israeli universities, but state they do not promote any of these programs. [...] 60050 132 22_Re: California outrage11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:40:26 -0500624_ISO-8859-1 I don't think a lot of students are upset not to be able to use their loans to go to Baghdad U or Pyinmana State but I believe it is the same, Judy

Batel Libes wrote:

>Is it the same for other countries under travel warnings, or just Israel? > >Batel > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Judy Gelman >Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 4:51 PM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: California outrage > >This is true of almost every university and will be until the State Dept >changes its advisories on travel to [...] 60183 205 22_Re: California outrage11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 23:01:15 -0500628_ISO-8859-1 I think the biggest issue is the loans and financial aid, which follow to most university sponsored programs but not to ones the student arranges independently.

In addition, some schools (like my son's) make it very difficult to transfer credits that are generated abroad in a program they don't run. After several years hiatus, his school currently runs a program in Israel--for economics majors only--and it competes with ones in England and Hong Kong for these same majors. I'm not sure what the special attraction of Israel is for economics majors vs other majors, like religion, history, etc, but at [...] 60389 238 45_Re: California outrage-About BYU in Jerusalem12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 20:43:40 -0800601_iso-8859-1 By the way- on the new campus--they have the biggest organ in Europe and Aisia which was donated at a cost of 500MILLION dollars! so look for visits from the Tabernacle Choir!-----sue



--- Judy Gelman wrote:

> I think the biggest issue is the loans and > financial aid, which follow > to most university sponsored programs but not to > ones the student > arranges independently. > > In addition, some schools (like my son's) make it > very difficult to > transfer credits that are generated abroad in a > program they don't run. > After several [...] 60628 152 22_Re: California outrage11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:22:10 -0800480_us-ascii Actually, as Norm noted, only Israel and the Philippines are listed.

Batel

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judy Gelman Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:40 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: California outrage

I don't think a lot of students are upset not to be able to use their loans to go to Baghdad U or Pyinmana State but I believe it is the same, Judy [...] 60781 130 24_Re: Moral Compass Adrift13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:17:23 +0200654_us-ascii Just what we need. Another political party.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of JLCAA@AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 7:20 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Moral Compass Adrift





In a message dated 1/24/2007 11:56:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

It would be truly wonderful if we could draft an entirely new group of people from business, the arts, academia, the Civil Service (OK, maybe not the Civil Service), Maccabbi Tel Aviv, the middle echelon of the IDF, etc. to run the country. [...] 60912 58 41_California outrage-About BYU in Jerusalem12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 03:31:39 -0500371_us-ascii From Sue Liberman Sent Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:43 pm To Subject Re:

By the way- on the new campus--they have the biggest organ in Europe and Aisia which was donated at a cost of 500MILLION dollars! so look for visits from the Tabernacle Choir!-----sue

Size isn't everything. It's the conducter that counts. Amnon [...] 60971 172 45_Re: California outrage-About BYU in Jerusalem13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:57:37 +0200648_us-ascii Another guy with a small organ.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadary Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:32 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: California outrage-About BYU in Jerusalem





From Sue Liberman

Sent Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:43 pm

To Subject Re:





By the way- on the new campus--they have the biggest organ in Europe and Aisia which was donated at a cost of 500MILLION dollars! so look for visits from the Tabernacle Choir!-----sue [...] 61144 459 45_Re: California outrage-About BYU in Jerusalem11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:20:51 -0500636_ISO-8859-1 If UC had $500 mil invested in a facility--let alone just the musical instrument in their facility, they'd be sending students too. Judy

Sue Liberman wrote:

>By the way- on the new campus--they have the biggest >organ in Europe and Aisia which was donated at a cost >of 500MILLION dollars! so look for visits from the >Tabernacle Choir!-----sue > > >--- Judy Gelman wrote: > > > >>I think the biggest issue is the loans and >>financial aid, which follow >>to most university sponsored programs but not to >>ones the student >>arranges independently. >> >>In addition, some schools (like [...] 61604 54 22_Re: California outrage11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 06:49:57 -0500527_ISO-8859-1 There are 30 countries with current State Dept travel warnings, plus a special "Spring Break" warning for Mexico. Most are not places any school has had a semester abroad program in recent memory (Somalia, Sudan, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, etc), which is probably why the UC system doesn't list them. I can't imagine that they would allow financial aid money to go to Mogadishu but not Haifa, but maybe I'm wrong. There are real universities in Tehran and Damascus so maybe US kids are studying there on their loans. [...] 61659 91 10_UC outrage16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 10:51:22 -0500620_us-ascii In Habonet 2007-23, Norm Kane writes that

>If we want the suspension ended we first must get the Travel Warning removed. > The answer to that is "yes, but..." The travel ban won't be removed in the near forseeable future. That doesn't, however, stop local Jewish communities from political lobbying of state higher-ed officialdom to get them to accept Israel study abroad. For example, a year ago the University of Wisconsin reopenned its Israel study programs. Ditto Rutgers here in New Jersey. The State and City University systems in New York never suspended theirs. (Well, duh, there is a large [...] 61751 89 14_Re: UC outrage12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 07:57:05 -0800307_iso-8859-1 I am going to bring this up at JLTV- we have a show called "On Campus"--and have geared some of the programming to college kids...good idea EAlihu....(By the way- my boss's son, Adam, who is very involved in the network, just came back from a year at Tel Aviv U and goes to UCLA......)--sue [...] 61841 264 35_Fwd: Please Help: Two Missing Teens15_Steven Weinberg19_chaversteve@MAC.COM31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:50:30 -0500657_WINDOWS-1252



Begin forwarded message:

> From: Foundation for Jewish Camping > Date: January 25, 2007 2:59:50 PM EST > To: chaversteve@mac.com > Subject: Please Help: Two Missing Teens > Reply-To: questions@jewishcamping.org > > > > > > > **The following information has recently circulated among members > of the Jewish community. We wanted to share this information with > you as well in the hope that casting a wide net will help with the > safe return of these two teenagers. Please forward this information > to your contacts as well.** > > Rachel Smith (above,right), from North Potomac, along [...] 62106 508 59_A Word, Yossi Beilin, From An Old Friend , from the Forward0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 19:37:49 -0500522_utf-8 To continue the Carter conversation (until we are completely bored of it), I just think is a good article. I don't know the writer, Steve Berman, very well but I did meet him at a Shabbat dinner last summer in Atlanta and he seemed like a good guy.

http://www.forward.com/articles/a-word-yossi-beilin-from-an-old-friend/

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 9:33 AM Subject: Beilin on Carter's book in the Forward [...] 62615 1801 59_Fwd: K. Stein in MEQ: "My Problem with Jimmy Carter's Book"13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Thu, 25 Jan 2007 21:04:21 EST470_US-ASCII In keeping with the article Ken just posted:

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 64417 124 63_Re: A Word, Yossi Beilin, From An Old Friend , from the Forward13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 03:26:36 -0800596_iso-8859-1 Well, well, here we go again. I see that the main point of hurt for Israel's supporters in the US is the matter of Palestinian terrorism, and especially suicide bombings. The article opens with a condemnation of Carter for not condemning Palestinian terrorism unequivocally on moral grounds, and ends with the familiar line about the moral relativism of the Israeli and world left in general. This is the main point of criticism, I believe, that has really pained American Jews abouts Carter's book, in addition to the use of the "A" word in the title. With those two "crimes" of [...] 64542 232 60_Fw: CAIR's "Rights and Responsibilities" of American Muslims11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:30:19 -0800572_Windows-1252

From a friend, in response to my outgoing message about the CAIR booklet. His opinion of its innocuousness is different from mine.

Steve

Subject: Re: CAIR's "Rights and Responsibilities" of American Muslims



The CAIR website is innocuous and non-threatening. It appears to be a sincere effort to present American Muslims as everyday working citizens who are stigmatized and put upon by racists, rednecks, Zionists, and others of similar ilk. But just a look behind this innocent facade reveals an insidious underside. [...] 64775 108 12_Yuval wrote:11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:54:11 -0800365_iso-8859-1 Yuval wrote: Palestinian terrorism and suicide bombings: I am still with Carter, that those are mainly reactions to years of inferiority, oppression, and occupation. Those are the weapons of the weak and disenfranchised, of those that don't have the luxury of a modern, organized army with all the latest technological weaponry America can provide. [...] 64884 596 63_Re: A Word, Yossi Beilin, From An Old Friend , from the Forward11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 10:18:30 -0800585_UTF-8 Jews can be self-critical. Blacks can call each other "nigger". Intent and purpose are the issue.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 4:37 PM Subject: A Word, Yossi Beilin, From An Old Friend , from the Forward



To continue the Carter conversation (until we are completely bored of it), I just think is a good article. I don't know the writer, Steve Berman, very well but I did meet him at a Shabbat dinner last summer in Atlanta and he seemed like a good guy. [...] 65481 282 11_5th column?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 20:54:45 +0200663_us-ascii

Self-inflicted injury





By Ze'ev Schiff

In publishing their report entitled "The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel," which sets out a list of demands on Israel and its Jewish inhabitants, the leaders of Israel's Arab minority have ultimately shot themselves in the foot.

The timing of the report, on the heels of the second Lebanon war, is not coincidental. The Israeli establishment has known for some time now about the deliberations going on in Arab circles. Release of the report came at a time when the country was in a state of crisis, brought on by the [...] 65764 216 15_Re: 5th column?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:51:52 -0800649_iso-8859-1 That said, which will it be: a Jewish state, or a democratic* state? -Sharon * "democratic" to me means equal rights for all, regardless of religion ----- Original Message ---- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:54:45 AM Subject: 5th column? Self-inflicted injury By Ze'ev Schiff In publishing their report entitled "The Future Vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel," which sets out a list of demands on Israel and its Jewish inhabitants, the leaders of Israel's Arab minority have ultimately shot themselves in the foot. The timing of the report, on the heels of [...] 65981 80 20_Occupation/Expulsion12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:30:07 -0500360_us-ascii Haverim-ot I'm not into the whole scope of the Carter -Appartheid imbroglio. I'm limiting myself to a specific locality, the Palestinian village of Susya south of Hebron which is under threat of expulsion. First an introduction to the authors of the material followed by descriptions of January 13 incident by some of them. www.perspectiva.co.il [...] 66062 125 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 15:44:23 EST635_US-ASCII

Thank you Amnon, I think this brings it home and speaks to the issues that are happening right now....next door. I'm sure the spinners and 'solid friends of Israel' will have something to say.

marc m oakland ca



Haverim-ot I'm not into the whole scope of the Carter -Appartheid imbroglio. I'm limiting myself to a specific locality, the Palestinian village of Susya south of Hebron which is under threat of expulsion. First an introduction to the authors of the material followed by descriptions of January 13 incident by some of them. _www.perspectiva.co.il_ (http://www.perspectiva.co.il/) [...] 66188 77 15_Re: 5th column?0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 16:32:07 EST640_US-ASCII

In a message dated 1/26/2007 2:53:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:

That said, which will it be: a Jewish state, or a democratic* state? -Sharon





Why do you think this is an either or question? Are you saying a Jewish state cannot, by definition, be democratic? Avi

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 66266 98 15_Re: 5th column?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 14:15:29 -0800562_iso-8859-1 It depends on what you mean by a "Jewish" state, of course. But if you have things like the Right of Return for Jews and not for non-Jews, different requirements for military service, etc. then you have different rights based on religion. That, IMNSHO, is not democratic. I am not saying that there is anything wrong with having a state that is Jewish but has a number of non-democratic aspects. I am only saying that, as far as I know, you can't have it both ways. I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this. -Sharon ----- Original Message [...] 66365 249 15_Re: 5th column?6_Martin18_emskol@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 26 Jan 2007 17:22:26 -0500516_us-ascii a country that is run by its citizens, usually through elected representatives, where all adults are entitled to vote. Parliament is made up of representatives from the people. (E) Equality: being given the same opportunities. Equality does not always mean being treated identically; it is about addressing different needs.

www.equalcitizen.org.uk/glossary.htm [...] 66615 47 10_5th column12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 03:21:09 -0500599_us-ascii Israel as a "Jewish country" can sound offensively anti-democratic or equally a cultural achievement reified in an id card in which one takes enormous pride. Here is the take of Cynthia Ozick who is arguably a quintessentially American Jewish writer. In an introduction to her book Bloodshed, she wrote: "A language like a people, has a history of ideas, but not all ideas; only those known to its experience. Not surprisingly English is a Christian language: when I write English, I live in Christendom." When I live in the Jewish homeland, where Isaac was born and the seedbed of my [...] 66663 154 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 09:08:52 -0800576_iso-8859-1 As an avid spinner and a solid friend of Israel, I have something to ask, though somewhat ancillary in nature. When a sentence is given such as ". . . a viable solution must be based on . . . . principles of equality, justice and mutual respect", it sounds so good; almost uncontestable. I am just asking: at what point could a group-within-a-group cause so much trouble, create so much devastation, show so much antipathy, declare so much hatred, kill and maim so much of the general population, that it would not make sense to repeat that "equality, justice [...] 66818 284 25_Fwd: Occupation/Expulsion0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:10:32 EST434_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 67103 78 24_Fw: Occupation/Expulsion12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:08:05 -0800592_iso-8859-1 Steve K asked: at what point could a group-within-a-group cause so much trouble, create so much devastation, show so much antipathy, declare so much hatred, kill and maim so much of the general population, that it would not make sense to repeat that "equality, justice and mutual respect" refrain? Sharon G responds: never. For one thing, I would not want to give up on the goals of equality, justice, and mutual respect. Work towards such goals is as much for the person doing the work as for the eventual recipient of respect &c. I believe that treating others with respect [...] 67182 216 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 12:37:58 -0800345_iso-8859-1 Sharon

You say "Clear enough?" as if understanding what you say is the same as needing to accept your conclusions.

At what point would you have stopped proferring "equlity, justice and mutual respect" to the Nazis in Germany? "Never?" (If that is your answer, I accept it. I don't understand it; I just accept it). [...] 67399 90 20_Occupation/Expulsion12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:55:14 -0500640_us-ascii Steve, This thread began when I posted information about a specific; the unconscionable behavior of our army and the Jewish bully boys of an illegal settlement against Palestinains of Susya village south of Hebron. You come in citing Palestinian terror atrocities almost as though you relish them. It's like an insomniac with a centipede for a neighbor who is waiting for yet another shoe to drop. Yes terrorists are despicable. Their entire people is not. Our counter-attacks and unnecessary harassment on an entire population are unjustifiable and counterproductive. Let's concentrate on what we do not why they hate us and [...] 67490 118 17_Fw: Anti, antiwar11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:43:28 -0500517_iso-8859-1 Forwarding the message below for Richard Smith

Methinks Richard means to say "not all the nuts are antiwar" but that's only my opinion. Seems like a lot of people out on the mall in DC from where I was standing. Didn't listen much to the speakers, but lots of great messages on peoples signs and shirts. The small pro-war contingent I passed while marching was telling us if we didn't like it here to go to Cuba. Seems to me they miss the value of the first amendment, but hey, what do I know. [...] 67609 212 15_Re: 5th column?12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 16:05:04 -0500437_windows-1252 Haverot/im

There is an old story about a group of American communists proudly being shown the Moscow subway. After admiring the art work at the station, one of the group looks at his watch and realizes that they've been there for more than a half hour and that no trains have come in either direction. Turning to the guide he asks about it. The guide angrily retorts "and what about the lynchings in the South?" [...] 67822 276 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion0_26_tovasilverman@NETSCAPE.NET31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 17:25:45 -0500680_us-ascii Dear Amnon,

Many of us who live here agree with you, Israel is our home we want to be proud of it.

Tova



-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:55 PM Subject: Occupation/Expulsion



Steve, This thread began when I posted information about a specific; the unconscionable behavior of our army and the Jewish bully boys of an illegal settlement against Palestinains of Susya village south of Hebron. You come in citing Palestinian terror atrocities almost as though you relish them. It's like an insomniac with a centipede for a neighbor who is waiting for yet [...] 68099 157 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 18:19:43 -0500628_us-ascii

Thanks Tova Amnon ----- Original Message ----- From: tovasilverman@NETSCAPE.NET Date: Saturday, January 27, 2007 5:40 pm Subject: Re: Occupation/Expulsion To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Dear Amnon, > > Many of us who live here agree with you, Israel is our home we > want to be proud of it. > > Tova > > > -----Original Message----- > From: gershon-keileh@013.NET > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 10:55 PM > Subject: Occupation/Expulsion > > > Steve, > This thread began when I posted information about a specific; the > unconscionable behavior of our army and the Jewish bully boys of [...] 68257 37 20_Re: Citizenship Laws13_Joel Winograd15_mail@JELACO.COM31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 22:15:05 -0600608_US-ASCII Hi All,

If one intends to use Israel's 'Right of Return' as a basis for claiming the country is not a democracy, let's look at how other democracies grant citizenship.

Various democracies use 'jus sanguinis' (bloodlines) as an element of citizenship. These include Finland, India, Ireland, Germany, Greece, Italy, Japan. This is not an exhaustive list. Requirements in each country vary for other reasons as well; e.g. marital status involving a partner who is already a citizen, service in the armed forces, immigration policy such as country-specific quotas or financial worth. [...] 68295 138 35_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Amnon12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 27 Jan 2007 20:23:07 -0800572_iso-8859-1 Amnon- Let me ask you this. When will the "Palestinian People" take control of their lives and stop behaving like "victims"???? (PLeASE dodn't give me the line..I have heard it all before)...I don't think your tirade against Steve is justified. All he stated was the fact that they have never owned up to the horrible values of terrorism committed in their names. In fact, they seem, as a people, to enjoy it. I ask when they will stop with the blame game and start focusing on their own lives and situation. When that happens, all of this crap will stop. [...] 68434 191 35_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Amnon12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 02:06:37 -0500633_us-ascii Sue, Clearly we do not agree. Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman Date: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:37 pm Subject: Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Amnon To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Amnon- Let me ask you this. When will the "Palestinian > People" take control of their lives and stop behaving > like "victims"???? (PLeASE dodn't give me the line..I > have heard it all before)...I don't think your tirade > against Steve is justified. All he stated was the fact > that they have never owned up to the horrible values > of terrorism committed in their names. In fact, [...] 68626 1712 18_Aumann at Herzliya16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 09:38:54 -0500764_us-ascii





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Publications by IPS Fellows [...] 70339 55 8_Sad news14_Allan Pristoop17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 09:54:11 -0500466_iso-8859-1 Funeral today for Maimon Cohen, brother of Vadie and Shlomo, madrich at Mosh in 1950's, today at 11am. Wonderful Obituary in Baltimore Sunpapers yesterday.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 70395 240 35_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Amnon12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 09:42:28 -0800621_iso-8859-1 That's what great about democracies! :)...sue(sie)



--- amnon hadary wrote:

> Sue, > Clearly we do not agree. > Amnon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sue Liberman > Date: Saturday, January 27, 2007 11:37 pm > Subject: Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Amnon > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > > Amnon- Let me ask you this. When will the > "Palestinian > > People" take control of their lives and stop > behaving > > like "victims"???? (PLeASE dodn't give me the > line..I > > have heard it all before)...I don't think your > tirade > > [...] 70636 172 33_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Sue11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:18:47 -0500439_iso-8859-1 Once again it seems to me that one often reads what one wants to read, rather than what is written. I read your note (and Steve's) as much more of a tirade that what Amnon wrote.

I agree with his calm response to Steve's provocative generalizations. We condemn terrorist acts. And we condemn acts of oppression, no matter who commits them. In the end we can only control and take responsibility for our own actions. [...] 70809 272 34_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Noam12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:07:52 -0800536_iso-8859-1 Unfortunatley, I am not president of the US, or I would never have gone into this war. I am doing all I can as a citizen to decry the loss of life by this man (?--Bush) who has so much blood on his hands...I am in the media, and doing all I can to make sure his cronies don't follow into miore power...But Again, why don't any of you out there put a little responsibility on the Palestinians??? Why do you consistently excuse them, and not realize the fact that they ALSO have to take responsibility for their lives and [...] 71082 307 7_Empathy12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:04:20 -0500579_windows-1252 I want to talk about conflict resolution in a different register than the customary: "I won't sit down with you because you did such and such…; first admit that you were cruel from the start." The operative word for the changed approach to the other that I'm suggesting is empathy; midat ha'rachamim (the quality of mercy.) Understand where s/he feels most vulnerable. Try to get your synapses around to where he is in greatest pain. You'll probably find it close to where his deepest hatred of you is located. In the '50s, Hiam Gouri who had fought in the war [...] 71390 63 34_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Noam12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 12:52:25 -0800585_iso-8859-1 Sue wrote, "I ask when they will stop with the blame game and start focusing on their own lives and situation. When that happens, all of this crap will stop. " This is classic codependence, to believe that one's situation depends wholly on the actions of someone else. Sue also wrote, "why don't any of you out there put a little responsibility on the Palestinians??? Why do you consistently excuse them, and not realize the fact that they ALSO have to take responsibility for their lives and their situations into their own hands???" What makes you think that none of [...] 71454 191 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 13:04:22 -0800609_iso-8859-1 Just when you think you've read every possible misinterpretation of your words on the internet, somebody comes along and surprises you. In saying "clear enough," I was asking if my response to your question was understandable. I was not asking if you understood my position, or accepted my position, or agreed with my position, just if my response was clear. As a pacifist (note to self: get out the asbestos suit), I get pretty tired of people bringing up the Nazi Germany question. The difficulty with such questions is that a non-violent approach to problem-solving does not lend itself to [...] 71646 1163 30_TNR - Israel's Worst Nightmare16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:38:50 -0500725_ISO-8859-1 The New Republic Online



ISRAEL'S WORST NIGHTMARE.



Contra Iran

by Yossi Klein Halevi & Michael B. Oren Post date: 01.26.07 Issue date: 02.05.07

The first reports from military intelligence about an Iranian nuclear program reached the desk of Yitzhak Rabin shortly after he became prime minister in May 1992. Rabin's conclusion was unequivocal: Only a nuclear Iran, he told aides, could pose an existential threat to which Israel would have no credible response. But, when he tried to warn the Clinton administration, he met with incredulity. The CIA's assessment--which wouldn't change until 1998--was that Iran's nuclear program was civilian, [...] 72810 127 11_Re: Empathy12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:05:58 -0800359_iso-8859-1 Empathy is a wonderful emotion, but an inactive one. I can still be "empathetic" of the Palestinian postion, but not agree with their paths of action or inaction for themselves. That is what makes this so awful.....How many of them have asked the question, "How do I get myself out of this mess" as opposed to asking "WHO CAN I BLAME?"....sue [...] 72938 64 108_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- back at ya Sue - why do you feel the need to use these personalized subject lines?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:09:22 -0500378_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liberman" To: Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 3:07 PM Subject: Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Noam



> Unfortunatley, I am not president of the US, or I > would never have gone into this war. I am doing all I > can as a citizen to decry the loss of life by this man [...] 73003 105 20_Fw: Citizenship Laws12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:47:33 -0800686_iso-8859-1 Just realized that I had sent this directly to Joel instead of continuing to beat the horse via Habonet. -Sharon ----- Forwarded Message ---- From: Sharon Gates To: mail@jelaco.com Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:56:05 PM Subject: Re: Citizenship Laws Perhaps the Right of Return was a bit of a red herring. The point is how individuals are treated, both citizens and non-citizens. Israeli Arabs are 2nd class citizens (I doubt many would argue this point). Having two classes of citizenship is not, IMHO, democratic. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Joel Winograd To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, January [...] 73109 79 35_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Amnon0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:55:59 EST458_US-ASCII I may have made this point a year or two ago, but it seems apropos to this discussion.

When my children were much younger and got into "she did this and that's why I did that" kind of justifications for bad behavior, I used to point out that the only behavior they were responsible for, was their own. I cannot and will not justify bad behavior of the Palestinians, I can only take responsibility for my own as both a Jew and a Zionist. [...] 73189 120 108_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- back at ya Sue - why do you feel the need to use these personalized subject lines?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:07:26 -0800500_iso-8859-1 The reason U put names on is that sometimes other people aren't interested in the banter we have and would rather skip it....Now my question is, Noam, why isn't what's good for us good for the Palestinians....when you say you only care about what is done in your name, why isn't that true of the Palestinians...and no matter what the reasons, the election of Hamas caused real problems....And why hasn't someone else stepped up to the plate and said "Enough"!!!.....Just asking...sue [...] 73310 85 35_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Amnon12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:10:19 -0800567_iso-8859-1 Avi- I agree with everything yo said- but why, and I will ask again, if that is your philosophy- isn't it "apropos" for Palestinians- to take responsibility for THEIR actions. We do not live in islands.....and your "responsibility is reaction and complimetary to others...sue --- JLCAA@AOL.COM wrote:

> I may have made this point a year or two ago, but it > seems apropos to this > discussion. > > When my children were much younger and got into "she > did this and that's why > I did that" kind of justifications for bad behavior, > I used to [...] 73396 101 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:37:56 +0200486_windows-1255 HABONET Digest - 27 Jan 2007 to 28 Jan 2007 (#2007-27)I agree w/Noam's premise and see it as coinciding with how we proceed through the world at a personal/interpersonal level. There is a limit to how much we can apply our 'shoulds' to others (and to fate). The most effective focus is our own 'shoulds' - namely, given the limitations of the situation, how 'should' we behave in order to fulfill two supreme goals: maximum efficacy and the highest ethical standards. [...] 73498 32 8_pacifism16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 05:36:00 -0500641_ISO-8859-1 In Habonet 2007-27, Sharon Gates writes

> As a pacifist (note to self: get out the asbestos suit), I get pretty > tired of people bringing up the Nazi Germany question.

In a famous correspondance published in the Jewish Frontier, Ghandhi chided Martin Buber that Jewish resistance to the Nazis would have been more effective if only European Jewry had responded with acts of civil disobedience. Buber responded that civil disobedience could work in India against the British because of one fundamental difference between the British and the Nazis: essential core decency of which the Nazis had none. The moral, [...] 73531 51 108_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- back at ya Sue - why do you feel the need to use these personalized subject lines?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:18:52 -0500292_iso-8859-1 Sue,

Please show me the words I wrote that make you believe that I only care about what is done in my name. I said that's what I can try to do something about. And I said the Palestinians have to take care of their own house. So I'm not sure what you're "just asking". [...] 73583 351 17_Maimon Cohen, z"l16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 08:04:53 -0500709_ISO-8859-1



http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/obituaries/bal-md.ob.cohen26jan26,0,536009.story



From the Baltimore Sun



Maimon Cohen



[ Age 72 ] The son of Russian immigrants, accomplished doctor became a leader in development of medical genetics field.





By Frederick N. Rasmussen sun reporter

January 26, 2007

Dr. Maimon M. Cohen, a leader in the development of medical genetics and first director of the Harvey Institute for Human Genetics at Greater Baltimore Medical Center, died of gastric cancer yesterday at Gilchrist Center for Hospice Care. The Pikesville resident was 72. [...] 73935 105 43_Cop-out lines ( was that long thing before)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:35:46 -0800533_iso-8859-1 I have been thinking long and hard about the conversations we have been having, and about the philosophy that, as long as I behave correctly and nicely, everything will be ok. I have come to the conclusion that this is a nice cop-out line, since we do not live in a vaccuum, and that it doesn't work in real life. I will concede that we all need a code of behavior, but we also have to find a way to deal with those who have a different code. Maybe it's because of the globalization of interaction- I don't know. But [...] 74041 248 21_Re: Maimon Cohen, z"l12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 06:40:18 -0800612_iso-8859-1 Thank you , Elihu, for posting this. Shlomo had sent it out on Friday...and I guess I have been too shocked....I want to publicly say that these Cohen brothers have been an amazing example of being wonderful human beings, and contributing in ways way beyond the norm to humanity. Vadie and Dolore's son, Ami, z"l, started Save a Child's Heart, which is continuing......(you can go to the website, saveachildsheart.com)....And I know SHlomo is also doing great work and bringing music witht he makhela he works with.....I am proud to say I knew and know them all...sue(sie) --- "Elihu D. Davison" [...] 74290 128 58_Re: Cop-out lines - please stop distorting what others say11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:49:55 -0500620_us-ascii Sue,

Perhaps you recall that this discussion started with a piece decrying a specific instance of land usurpation. The response was to lambast the author and those who agreed that this was injustice as terrorist sympathizers. All I've read anyone say is that we must behave justly and that we can only take responsibility for our own actions. That doesn't mean you don't respond when attacked. That doesn't mean that you don't take threats seriously and take responsible measures to defend yourself. It means that you can't directly change the actions of others, but you can change your own actions [...] 74419 214 58_Re: Cop-out lines - please stop distorting what others say12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 07:27:01 -0800453_iso-8859-1 It's not that I find it offensive; I find it weak and ineffective, because it doesn't solve anything. It all sounds very nice and "safe." I am asking for solutions, which don't seem to be forthcoming -not on this list, and not in the real world of politics and violence....it's very frustrating....We seem to have a habit of hiding behind "niceities" which don't work....The more I think about it, the more I believe in the fence....sue [...] 74634 79 24_Re: Citizenship Laws (2)13_Joel Winograd15_mail@JELACO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:27:34 -0600341_US-ASCII I don't think the existence of social problems implies undemocratic. If that were so, there are no democracies. England, France, Germany, the US et.al. all have various forms of discrimination and social injustice. Indeed if the mere existence of social problems implies non-democratic then only a utopia could be a democracy. [...] 74714 400 32_Washington Post - Irena Kirkland16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:30:54 -0500745_ISO-8859-1 washingtonpost.com

Rights Activist Irena Kirkland; Widow of AFL-CIO President

By Joe Holley Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, January 25, 2007; B07

Irena Kirkland, 81, a Holocaust survivor and prominent human rights advocate, died Jan. 24 of cancer at her home in the District.

During the 1970s and 1980s, Mrs. Kirkland and her husband, AFL-CIO president Lane Kirkland, were vocal supporters of several dissident movements throughout the Soviet bloc. Carl Gershman, president of the National Endowment for Democracy, described the Kirkland home as "a nerve center for the freedom struggle then unfolding in the world." Dinner guests -- including Alexander [...] 75115 65 24_Citiyenship and Laws (2)12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:00:01 -0500424_us-ascii Hi Joel, What a refreshing breath of air you bring in your postings. Thanks, Amnon I don't think the existence of social problems implies undemocratic. If that were so, there are no democracies. England, France, Germany, the US et.al. all have various forms of discrimination and social injustice. Indeed if the mere existence of social problems implies non-democratic then only a utopia could be a democracy. [...] 75181 1273 62_The "Future vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel" - Ed. 416_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:48:08 -0500684_ISO-8859-1





b i t t e r l e m o n s. o r g

January 29, 2007 Edition 4 Palestinian-Israeli crossfire Also from bitterlemons... If you haven't already subscribed, check out our Middle East Roundtable. For a free subscription, go to bitterlemons-international.org .

The "Future vision of the Palestinian Arabs in Israel" . A profoundly disturbing document <#isr1> by Yossi Alpher The document rejects the principle of a democratic Jewish state that lies at the heart of the Oslo solution of two states for two peoples. . A civilized and sophisticated argument <#pal1> by Ghassan Khatib The reason many [...] 76455 178 34_Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Noam11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:03:20 -0800403_iso-8859-1 Sharon

Sorry for sticking my nose in between you and Sue- but I am curious: Why did you not write it on Habonet? That would have saved us hours of unecessary arguing and gallons of virtual ink !!

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:52 PM Subject: Re: Occupation/Expulsion- for Noam [...] 76634 93 45_Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:37:51 -0500434_us-ascii



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 76728 175 24_Re: Citizenship Laws (2)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:49:46 -0800602_iso-8859-1 For the most part, I think Joel describes a democracy very well. And I must admit that I am using the term as an ideal to be worked towards, with the understanding that real-life countries fall short of the ideal. However, I believe that putting the "Jewish" part on top of the democracy puts a limit on how thoroughly social problems can be addressed. If Israeli Arabs are not able to form the social networks that grow from military service, then they have fewer opportunities for advancement post-military service and you can't fully address problems like poverty. We have inherited [...] 76904 407 24_Re: Occupation/Expulsion11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:51:22 -0800574_iso-8859-1 Tova

Please forgive me for tagging into your conversation with Amnon.

What I have been trying to say (albeit with limited success) is that you can be and should be proud of Israel, despite its problems or shortfalls.

You do not want to have to apologize for individual and isolated unethical behaviors and neither do I. However, I will never apologize for Israel's existence, or for my own either. That fact has nothing to do with have an "A" on my report card under "Plays well with others". I am hoping you are cut from similar cloth. [...] 77312 280 58_Re: Cop-out lines - please stop distorting what others say12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 09:53:46 -0800627_iso-8859-1 Not attempting to control things that are not within your power to control is not a "nicety." It is a recognition of reality. It is only after one recognizes reality that one can do anything to influence reality in an effective way. To continue saying "the Palestinians should do this" and "the Palestinians should do that" is to keep fighting the wrong battle. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Sue Liberman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 7:27:01 AM Subject: Re: Cop-out lines - please stop distorting what others say It's not that I find it offensive; I [...] 77593 131 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:10:28 -0800708_iso-8859-1 I just deleted the message from Steve without responding because I was tired of engaging on this one, but Noam's post provided incentive to read Steve's message more carefully. Steve asked "Why did you not write it on Habonet?" Obviousy, I did write it on Habonet, so I am now confused by the question. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 9:37:51 AM Subject: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, [...] 77725 38 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:19:06 -0500465_ISO-8859-1 My question is "Why did you write it on Habonet?" Some of these exchanges could be off the listserve and the rest of us wouldn't exactly suffer from their absence. (No this is not directed particularly to Sharon; I just hit reply on that email.) It would be nice if people occasionally asked themselves the "polite dinner table conversation" question--Is this of general interest or should be discuss this privately with the other interested party? [...] 77764 40 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:40:54 -0500320_us-ascii Hi Judy,

I'll guess you are talking to me. Sorry for the gross image, my point was in fact to shock. Steve and others on the right fringe have no compunctions writing whatever they want about others here and the politeness police usually give them a free pass. Sometimes I'm unwilling to let it go. [...] 77805 75 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:32:52 +0200464_us-ascii Noam, I hate to jump in here but I don't think the issue of good manners and name-calling on the Habonet is an ideological one. I've taken more than my share of grief, some of it pretty raw, and fairly recently as well. Being called "simple" or "simple minded" by a haver to my left from Baltimore comes to mind and nobody made a peep. Sorry to point this out but the politeness police is out eating doughnuts when a non-liberal gets pasted as well. [...] 77881 24 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:35:26 -0800368_UTF-8 However, before someone contacts me directly, I would appreciate it if they ask if they can do so. My presence on this discussion board, and for that matter any other, does not indicate direct contact is permitted, especially since so often it does become a confrontational contact. Every other discussion group/board I belong to has that as a stipulation. [...] 77906 48 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:00:30 -0500579_us-ascii ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:32:52 +0200 >From: Jonathan Baum >Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >Noam, I hate to jump in here but I don't think the issue of good manners and >name-calling on the Habonet is an ideological one. I've taken more than my >share of grief, some of it pretty raw, and fairly recently as well. Being >called "simple" or "simple minded" by a haver to my left from Baltimore >comes to mind and nobody made a peep. Sorry to point this out but [...] 77955 82 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 22:10:40 +0200348_us-ascii Geez Noam, you need to take a drink and relax a bit. I was just pointing out that the issue of manners is not a right or left one here. It's one of not what you say but how you say it. I don't care who you support and whether you want to stand up or sit down doing it but there's no need to call me simple minded even if we disagree. [...] 78038 62 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 16:04:21 -0500602_ISO-8859-1 Not particularly to you either--although that email was yucky. Judy

Noam Stopak wrote:

>Hi Judy, > >I'll guess you are talking to me. Sorry for the gross image, my point was in fact to shock. Steve and others on the right fringe have no compunctions writing whatever they want about others here and the politeness police usually give them a free pass. Sometimes I'm unwilling to let it go. > >Noam > >---- Original message ---- > > >>Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:19:06 -0500 >>From: Judy Gelman >>Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet [...] 78101 196 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:16:30 +0000577_us-ascii I have only been reading bits and pieces of this conversation, but I really need to say something...

I am disillusioned, although I guess I have been for many, many years (particularly after going to college and having awful experiences with teachers, but that's a story I won't make you suffer through). When I was younger I thought, "Oh, when I grow up, childish namecalling and fighting etc. will be a thing of the past." While it is true that many people do outgrow such habits, I continue to be appalled at how many people continue this kind of thing [...] 78298 54 49_Re: Fwd: Re: what is and isn't written to Habonet14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:27:56 +0200531_ISO-8859-1 Nothing much to understand, Julie, just we are very passionate in our pet beliefs and won't let someone else's "truths" get in our way sometimes. Boys and girls of all ages get overwhelmed and need a timeout.

Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 78353 86 37_Rice's Recent Trip To The Middle East16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 29 Jan 2007 14:48:58 -0800700_iso-8859-1 SECRETARY OF STATE RICE AND THE MIDDLE EAST: SERIOUS STRATEGY, OR MOTION FOR THE SAKE OF MOTION?



by



Robert O. Freedman









Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice's recent trip to the Middle East has raised numerous questions both in the region and in the United States. The main result of the trip was a promise from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas that they would join Rice in a tripartite summit,sometime in the future, to discuss the "final status" issues involved in a settlement of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. These issues include the future of Jerusalem and [...] 78440 19 7_fringes16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 03:14:18 -0500445_us-ascii Frayed, anyone? ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 78460 48 11_Re: fringes12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 07:12:28 -0800582_iso-8859-1 I'M WITH YA ON THIS ONE!--SUE...



--- "Elihu D. Davison" wrote:

> Frayed, anyone? ;-) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > For other options go to: > http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ > [...] 78509 71 11_Re: fringes11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:07:17 -0500440_us-ascii Three strings walk into a bar. The bartender throws them out, yelling "Can't you read the sign?! I don't serve strings."

The strings try again, and again the bartender kicks them out.

Finally, one of the strings gets the idea to mess himself up a little. He walks into the bar.

The bartender scowls, "What's wrong with you? Can't you read? I don't serve strings!" The string replies, "I'm a frayed knot!" [...] 78581 124 11_Re: fringes12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 13:48:17 -0500598_us-ascii This is much better. I have a resolution: humor. Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:22 pm Subject: Re: fringes To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Three strings walk into a bar. The bartender throws them out, > yelling "Can't you read the sign?! I don't serve strings." > > The strings try again, and again the bartender kicks them out. > > Finally, one of the strings gets the idea to mess himself up a > little. He walks into the bar. > > The bartender scowls, "What's wrong with you? Can't you read? [...] 78706 130 11_Re: fringes13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 10:49:11 -0800640_iso-8859-1 Aren't the fringes of the garment rendered in Hebrew as 'tzitzit hakanaf'? ___ |Y| ^^^

amnon hadary wrote: This is much better. I have a resolution: humor. Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 12:22 pm Subject: Re: fringes To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Three strings walk into a bar. The bartender throws them out, > yelling "Can't you read the sign?! I don't serve strings." > > The strings try again, and again the bartender kicks them out. > > Finally, one of the strings gets the idea to mess himself up a [...] 78837 59 11_Re: fringes0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:12:51 EST343_US-ASCII True story A man is driving faster than the speed limit to get home in time for Shabbat when a policeman pulls him over. The driver says,"here's my license, give me the ticket. I'm in a big hurry to get home before my Sabbath begins." The cop says, "then show me your strings." Corner of Section Rd. and Reading Rd., Cincinnati. [...] 78897 48 11_Re: fringes0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:13:40 EST494_US-ASCII I somehow missed the beginning of all this. A short synopsis anyone?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 78946 79 36_"Birthright Journal" on JRF Web Site12_Shai Gluskin16_shai@GLUSKIN.ORG31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:40:04 -0500521_ISO-8859-1 Habonetters,

Just wanted to let you know that on the JRF web site we've published the first two installments (of about eight total to be serialized over the next 2 weeks) of "Birthright Journal".

http://www4.jrf.org/birthrightjournal

It is a series of reflections and photographs by 23-year-old Joe Getzoff who participated one year ago on a birthright trip. The journal entries are honest and thoughtful about the complex feelings he had while on the trip. [...] 79026 198 40_Re: "Birthright Journal" on JRF Web Site11_Sue Freeman25_suecfreeman@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:48:28 -0500390_windows-1250 Is the web site below supposed to be the installments for the birthright journal? I clicked on it, which is a link to someone's e-mail address.

_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Shai Gluskin Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 6:40 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: "Birthright Journal" on JRF Web Site [...] 79225 81 58_Essay Linking Liberal Jews and Anti-Semitism Spark a Furor16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 16:58:33 -0800655_iso-8859-1 Essay Linking Liberal Jews and Anti-Semitism Sparks a Furor By PATRICIA COHEN The American Jewish Committee, an ardent defender of Israel, is known for speaking out against anti-Semitism, but this conservative advocacy group has recently stirred up a bitter and emotional debate with a new target: liberal Jews. An essay the committee features on its Web site, ajc.org, titled “ ‘Progressive’ Jewish Thought and the New Anti-Semitism,” says a number of Jews, through their speaking and writing, are feeding a rise in virulent anti-Semitism by questioning whether Israel should even exist. In an introduction to the essay, David A. Harris, [...] 79307 42 40_Re: "Birthright Journal" on JRF Web Site0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:00:32 EST505_US-ASCII You have to copy and paste the URL..........NOT just click on the link.



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ 79350 291 40_Re: "Birthright Journal" on JRF Web Site11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:01:15 -0500531_windows-1250 I saw the same behavior. If you copy the text and past into the address bar of your browser you get the desired effect.

Actually this is good educational opportunity regarding links in email - they don't always go where you might expect from the text - this is how a lot of "phishing" attacks start - they pretend to offer a link to a legit site, then take you to a site that looks like the site but gathers your login or credit card info. The slick ones then log you into the site you wanted in the first [...] 79642 309 40_Re: "Birthright Journal" on JRF Web Site0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 30 Jan 2007 20:06:10 -0500559_us-ascii Sue, same thing happened to me. you have to copy and paste it into a browser and go to the site.

Shai, I think a lot of us had mixed feelings about birthright due to length and even the program but a couple of things have brought me around to view it has a positive factor in Jewish life. First of all, I have spoken to enough young people that were positively affected by the trip and secondly the proliferation of "special interest" birthright providers like Haganat Hateva, UPZ and others. I am also pleased now that the Jewish Agency [...] 79952 100 50_Re: "Birthright Journal" on JRF Web Site- for Shai12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:44:01 -0800436_iso-8859-1 Shai- I am a producer for Jewish Life TV- the first 24/7 FREE TV netwrok- we are in the process of being "channeled" ) We go onto Verizon Cable March, and are currently in 13,000 homes in Florida and will be on Tine Warner and Direct TV soon. You can catch us streaming on the internet at www.jltv.tv...send us some video and maybe we can do something....you can email me privately at sliberman@blazermediagroup.com sue [...] 80053 335 46_A new meaning for the term "benign neglect..."16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:58:30 -0500805_us-ascii The Jerusalem Post Internet Edition

Window on Israel: Tired of the Palestinians

------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ira sharkansky, THE JERUSALEM POST Jan. 30, 2007

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The writer is Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the Hebrew University, Jerusalem

Efraim Inbar, professor of political science and head of a strategic studies center at Bar Ilan University, has tired of the Palestine National Authority. It has failed to reach an accommodation with Israel, it has been unable or unwilling to impose discipline on factions that continue on the path of violence, and it has failed to provide its own residents with protections from crime and [...] 80389 169 56_Fw: Eilat recovering from shock following suicide attack11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:32:29 -0800619_windows-1255

:"CLICK TO WATCH" Great video, scenery and music. Brighten your day.

Steve









Today's Headlines: --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Eilat recovering from shock following suicide attack > Amir Peretz gains supporters in Labor Party registration > Bank of Israel decides: bank fees to be supervised > Special: click to watch Cool Facts about Israel



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Click here to watch today's video news Tell your friends [...] 80559 372 34_Fw: Too many Jews' By Joseph Farah11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:42:23 -0800636_iso-8859-1

Interesting piece.

Steve







"Too many Jews" By Joseph Farah

World Net Daily (WND) January 27, 2007 http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53958

"Too many Jews" That was the comment former President Jimmy Carter scrawled on a memo suggesting prospective members of the board of the Holocaust Memorial Council.

"Too many Jews."

That was the problem Carter saw with the names suggested by Monroe Freedman, executive director of the council, he revealed in a stunning interview with WND's Jerusalem bureau chief Aaron Klein this week. [...] 80932 362 31_[QUAR] The evolution of halacha16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:03:00 -0800440_iso-8859-1 I hope you enjoy this...

The Evolution of a Halacha: Making Your Bed



Many years ago, in a far away country, there was a well-known rabbi who was consulted on all sorts of matters relating to the Jewish people. His wise counsel was sought from people of all walks of life, and the community at large accepted his decisions, as they understood that his rulings and pronouncements were divinely inspired. [...]