1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet December 2006
2 120 20_Shlock. James Shlock16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 1 Dec 2006 06:25:43 -0800561_iso-8859-1 A little Shabbat humor, if it were not so sad.<br><br>Shlock. James Shlock By Doron Rosenblum<br><br>Agent 007.3 (the 3 was added due to a typo on the computer that can't be fixed anymore. It's a long story) appeared in the doorway to the office and displayed his trademark move: a failed attempt to toss his hat onto the hook. This time, too, the hat missed the target, hit the picture on the wall, knocked a vase off the filing cabinet and finally rolled into the center of the room. The veteran and expert secretary, Mania Penny, knew who it [...]
123 64 18_Oath on the Koran?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:31:27 -0800547_iso-8859-1 Please let me know what your feelings are on this.<br><br>I agreed with the author of the article.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
188 78 22_Fw: Oath on the Koran?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:32:01 -0800647_iso-8859-1 <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Please let me know what your feelings are on this.<br><br>I agreed with the author of the article.<br><br>Steve<br><br>http://www.townhall.com/content/55a05d19-ee16-4fec-96d6-1a8c735965a0<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
267 422 65_Fw: Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 1 Dec 2006 13:34:58 -0800415_Windows-1252 <br><br>Can anyone verify the veracity of #14?<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?<br><br>1. Before 1990, Security Council passed 175 resolutions, 97 were directed against Israel (It is 55% of all resolutions).<br><br>2. Before 1990, UN General Assembly voted on 690 resolutions, 429 were directed against Israel (It is 62% of all resolutions). [...]
690 268 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Fri, 1 Dec 2006 16:59:33 -0500414_us-ascii Steve:<br><br>I think Praeger is totally off base here and engaging in the worse kind of hate-mongering.<br><br>First of all, I understand that unlike the presidential swearing in ceremony, the Congress is sworn in en masse in chamber. Many of the Congressmen/women then do a private ceremony for photographic purposes. This means that Prager is creating a controversy where it doesn't really exist. [...]
959 130 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 05:22:04 -0500615_us-ascii <br><br>I'm with Ken on this.<br><br>Amnon ----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM Date: Friday, December 1, 2006 5:12 pm Subject: Re: Oath on the Koran? To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> Steve: > > I think Praeger is totally off base here and engaging in the worse > kind of hate-mongering. > > First of all, I understand that unlike the presidential swearing > in ceremony, the Congress is sworn in en masse in chamber. Many of > the Congressmen/women then do a private ceremony for photographic > purposes. This means that Prager is creating a controversy where > it doesn't really exist. [...]
1090 55 31_Do you swear to tell the truth?13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:21:22 +0200435_ISO-8859-1 I guess I'm with Ken with this one as well. Quite a long time ago I was called as a witness and for some reason the only book available was the Christian Testament. I refused to swear and asked for the Tanach. It wasn't available so the judge told me that I could swear as an upstanding citizen. So why not the Koran? For that matter, why swear at all. Is it because if you swear you may perjure yourself? Possible.... [...]
1146 97 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 07:28:32 -0600618_us-ascii Steve, Article VI of the US Constitution states: * The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; /but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States/. *It seems that you and Mr. Prager would like to amend the above clause and institute a religious qualification. The point is for an elected official to affirm support [...]
1244 164 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 08:49:51 -0500520_iso-8859-1 Steve,<br><br>Two things leap out at me from this article.<br><br>One is the author's assertion that the bible is America's "holiest book". It seems to me the establishment clause article 1 of the Bill of Rights is pretty clear - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof". To me this means there is no such thing as America's "holiest book". I think one could make a better case for the consitution as our holiest text than the bible. [...]
1409 247 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?11_Yael Kaynan22_yaeli.kaynan@GMAIL.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 16:10:50 +0200560_ISO-8859-1 Steve,<br><br>I'm sorry but I feel that both you and the Prager are way off base. Shawn pretty much summed up my thoughts and feelings on this (along with many of the others who've responded). I certainly would not consider an oath I took on a christian bible to be binding. In fact, my swearing on The Wizard of Oz (as someone noted :) would be more meaningful and binding to me personally than swearing on a bible of any description including the Tanach simply because I am not religious and further feel that the requirement to take an oath [...]
1657 104 34_Well I Swear was Oath on the Koran12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 10:57:25 -0500512_us-ascii I was concerned about the legal implications of taking an oath on Oz instead of on the Tannach. So I called Ketter, the publishers of Amos Oz's A Tale Of Love and Darkness (Jerusalem, 2002). They assured me that if it was for ceremonial purposes and as long as there was no infringement of Amos's rights, it would be ok. Amnon ----- Original Message ----- From: Shawn Eli Barland <sbarland@WI.RR.COM> Date: Saturday, December 2, 2006 8:38 am Subject: Re: Oath on the Koran? To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...]
1762 209 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 08:34:39 -0800539_iso-8859-1 Shawn<br><br>On the points you made, I agree 100% (other than the snideness). I don't like Robertson any more than you do.<br><br>What bothers me is the idea that this precedent would be set not as a cause for religious freedom, but rather as the start of a slope of an agenda that I think will be harmful to me, my family, my country and my people. He can swear his allegience to the Constitution of the United States on whatever he wants, as far as I am concerned. Just not on any book that demands his FIRST and HIGHEST [...]
1972 361 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 08:36:07 -0800619_iso-8859-1 Yael and Noam<br><br>I agree with you both.<br><br>Please see my reply to Shawn.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Yael Kaynan To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 6:10 AM Subject: Re: Oath on the Koran?<br><br><br><br>Steve,<br><br>I'm sorry but I feel that both you and the Prager are way off base. Shawn pretty much summed up my thoughts and feelings on this (along with many of the others who've responded). I certainly would not consider an oath I took on a christian bible to be binding. In fact, my swearing on The Wizard of Oz (as someone noted [...]
2334 286 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:03:04 -0500383_iso-8859-1 Steve,<br><br>I don't see the Koran as any different than the Bible in this regard. There are religious people of many stripes (e.g. Bush who when asked if he spoke with his father said "I speak with a higher Father") who clearly believe that their faith trumps the constitution. I don't generally find one flavor of religious zealotry more threatening than another. [...]
2621 319 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:48:12 -0500560_ISO-8859-1 I think Shawn was taking his oath on Amos Oz, not the Wizard of Oz, but that really isn't important.<br><br>The whole idea of swearing on a holy book is that in taking the oath you are invoking the moral and ethical strength you draw from belief in the teachings of that book. So--what could the possible argument be for having Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Moslems,Wiccans etc, swear on a Christian Bible? If it isn't holy to the people doing the swearing, why use any book at all? If you were swearing an oath in India, would you feel more bound [...]
2941 33 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:11:09 -0600608_ISO-8859-1 Steve, I apologize for the snideness of my 700 Club comment. I do not apologize for objecting to intolerance. I mentioned Pat Robertson because he and his ilk specialize in exactly this type of bigotry. If I understand correctly you seem to be proposing that it is unacceptable to swear an oath on any religious book that claims moral and philosophical supremacy. That would pretty well eliminate most religious works including the bible. Surely you can see the problems with this approach. The judge in the case cited by Moshe Sheskin understood that the intent was the important factor and [...]
2975 283 65_Re: Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:03:36 -0800674_windows-1252 Steve- Do you also care about the veracity of numbers 1 through 13, and number 15? Or have you already verified that these are accurate statements of fact? -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, December 1, 2006 1:34:58 PM Subject: Fw: Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?.....!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can anyone verify the veracity of #14? Steve Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations? 1. Before 1990, Security Council passed 175 resolutions, 97 were directed against Israel (It is 55% of all resolutions). 2. Before 1990, UN General Assembly voted on 690 resolutions, 429 [...]
3259 102 35_Re: Do you swear to tell the truth?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:18:18 -0800562_ascii The notion of swearing to tell the truth implies that, under circumstances where you haven't sworn, you are under no obligation to tell the truth. Personally, I believe in telling the truth all the time. Therefore, I don't believe in (nor do I practice) swearing to tell the truth. In most cases these days where one is asked to give special notice that one is telling the truth, one is asked to "swear or affirm" and there are no bibles or other books involved at all (at least, in California). It amazes (or should I say disappoints) me that people [...]
3362 354 35_Re: Do you swear to tell the truth?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 15:31:47 -0500651_iso-8859-1 Sharon,<br><br>I believe you mean screed? But I wouldn't swear to it :-)<br><br>scree (skr) n. 1. Loose rock debris covering a slope. 2. A slope of loose rock debris at the base of a steep incline or cliff.<br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>[Probably ultimately from Old Norse skridha, landslide, from skrdha, to slide.]<br><br>screed (skrd) n. 1. A long monotonous speech or piece of writing. 2. a. A strip of wood, plaster, or metal placed on a wall or pavement as a guide for the even application of plaster or concrete. b. A layer or strip of material used to level off [...]
3717 229 35_Re: Do you swear to tell the truth?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 12:59:43 -0800607_ascii I'll blame omitting the "d" on my numb fingers (it's a long story). Thanks for the correction. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Noam Stopak <nstopak@STARPOWER.NET> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2006 12:31:47 PM Subject: Re: Do you swear to tell the truth? DIV { MARGIN:0px;} Sharon, I believe you mean screed? But I wouldn't swear to it :-) scree (skr) n. 1. Loose rock debris covering a slope. 2. A slope of loose rock debris at the base of a steep incline or cliff. [Probably ultimately from Old Norse skridha, landslide, from skrdha, to slide.] screed (skrd) n. [...]
3947 50 21_A Tom Lehrer Hannukah16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 19:06:58 -0500442_us-ascii <br><br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
3998 542 65_Re: Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:22:56 -0800426_Windows-1252 Sharon<br><br>Yeah, I guess I care. Up until now, I had no reason to question the others ( numbers 1 through 13 and 15, I believe you noted). Is there something you know about them that others don't?<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Steve- Do you also care about the veracity of numbers 1 through 13, and number 15? Or have you already verified that these are accurate statements of fact? -Sharon [...]
4541 74 22_Re: Oath on the Koran?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 20:55:02 -0800601_iso-8859-1 Shawn<br><br>Apology accepted, although you may want to withdraw it after I clarify my opinion on this matter. If I come off as intolerant and or bigoted anywhere near Pat's ilk, please let me know.<br><br>Most bibles and religions claim moral and philosophical supremacy. I guess that's the nature of the beast. Heck, I even have ultra-religious Jewish friends that think I am an epikorus. My gripe with using the Koran, especially in these sensitive times, would be the same as using Mein Kamph to swear somebody into congress in 1937 (or any other time). The values within were not [...]
4616 225 86_Fw: ADL Blasts Appointment Of Desmond Tutu As Head Of U.N. FactFinding Mission To Gaza11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 21:03:53 -0800601_Windows-1252 <br><br>I've told this story before, but it bears repeating. While listening to a speech by Louis Lomax in the '60's, I asked him why the automatic affinity of black people toward the "plight of the Arabs", given the long and sad history of the Arabs' selling their black brethren off into slavery. His answer was simple: "They too are people of color". I wonder how much of this simple, simplistic equation accounts for Tutu's stance, as well as that of Mandela's, expressed not long after his long and dark incarceration. Don't forget to add MECHA to this mix. Anyway, heeeeeere's [...]
4842 824 30_Fw: A guide to growing peanuts11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 2 Dec 2006 21:10:00 -0800607_iso-8859-1 A rare piece of writing, from Angela Bertz.<br><br>Subject: A guide to growing peanuts<br><br><br><br>James Earl Carter Jr., the man destined to become the 39th President of the U.S had a solid, but humble beginning in life. By the time he was born in 1924 in the tiny village of Plains Georgia, which is about as far removed from what was then Palestine; two events that would prelude the establishment of the State of Israel had already taken place. The Balfour Declaration of 1917 and the League of Nations (forerunner to today's useless United Nations) had already recognized the Jewish [...]
5667 130 90_Re: Fw: ADL Blasts Appointment Of Desmond Tutu As Head Of U.N. FactFinding Mission To Gaza11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sun, 3 Dec 2006 00:38:58 -0500369_windows-1252 Dear Steve,<br><br>This press release is more than a bit one sided.<br><br>My sister works closely with Desmond Tutu. She tells me that he and many other anti-Apartheid leaders have had very strong ties to the Labor Zionist movement in South Africa. During the years that the ANC was banned, the leadership regularly met secretly at Habonim machanot. [...]
5798 1438 50_Re: JtA - Settlement Report is for Moral Reckoning0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sun, 3 Dec 2006 11:13:34 -0500489_utf-8 I had a couple of reactions to this JTA item, beyond the content itself.<br><br>1) Hagit provided a tour of the Jerusalem's security fence for Ameinu's mission last December. She had a logistics challenge because she had two buses to "guide" so she had to hop back and forth, but she was extremely knowledgeable both about the route of the fence and the settlement activity on the other side. It is not surprising but interesting that she is Dror Etkes' partner on this report. [...]
7237 362 65_Re: Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 3 Dec 2006 20:36:04 -0800606_windows-1252 Steve- First of all, I was wondering if you cared about the others. Second of all, some of the others seem a bit hard to believe (to me), but since you didn't question them, maybe you find them plausible. I am generally suspicious of statistics like in numbers 1 and 2 and of assertions that sound like nothing I've ever heard before like number 8. I was not coyly claiming to have some inside track on this stuff; I was questioning what I perceived as credulousness on your part. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...]
7600 190 40_Fw: The Jews and the Palestinian Problem11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sun, 3 Dec 2006 22:26:12 -0800345_iso-8859-1 <br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:25 PM Subject: The Jews and the Palestinian Problem<br><br><br><br>"The Jews and the Elephant Problem"- An old joke told back in the day, when people, as always, attempted to blame the Jews for every ill to befall mankind. [...]
7791 67 25_Re: A Tom Lehrer Hannukah12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Mon, 4 Dec 2006 09:34:56 -0500674_us-ascii Elihu no message came with this Amnon<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Elihu D. Davison" <elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET> Date: Saturday, December 2, 2006 7:21 pm Subject: A Tom Lehrer Hannukah To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ > [...]
7859 35 13_Dennis Prager16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Mon, 4 Dec 2006 11:30:34 -0500520_ISO-8859-1 In Habonet 2006-331, Shawn Barland writes that<br><br>> I would hope that no Jew would stoop to Mr. Prager's level<br><br><br><br>What any Jew would or should do is, of course, infinitely debateable. However, Dennis Prager is Jewish. Flatbush Yeshiva graduate. He was one of the founders (with Yaakov Birnbbaum and Glenn Richter) of SSSJ. He later went on to direct the Brandeis-Bardin Instute for Jewish Education in California. He is, Jewishly, very well educated; he is also a political conservative. [...]
7895 60 13_More on Oaths10_Gil Browdy22_mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG30_Mon, 4 Dec 2006 15:11:22 -0500570_us-ascii The Venerable Forward has its own little article on this matter, addressing some misinformation in Prager's article:<br><br>http://www.forward.com/blogs/campaign-confidential/ellisons-oath/<br><br>-Gil<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:31 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Dennis Prager<br><br>In Habonet 2006-331, Shawn Barland writes that<br><br>> I would hope that no Jew would stoop to Mr. Prager's level [...]
7956 98 53_Fw: Meir Asher Eichenbaum, Recognized 58 years later.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 5 Dec 2006 14:11:23 -0800508_iso-8859-1 <br><br>This is from a friend of mine, from Habonim-parallel era<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Subject: Meir Asher Eichenbaum, Recognized 58 years later.<br><br><br><br><br><br>http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART1/514/065.html<br><br><br><br>We are proud and honored to share this story of Aba with all of you.<br><br>If ever there was a good reason for those who do not read Hebrew to start learning, this is the perfect time to start and read about a modest humble man that achieved greatness. [...]
8055 492 46_Fw: Why Israel is Suspicious of UnitedNations?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 5 Dec 2006 18:22:39 -0800403_iso-8859-1 <br><br>From a friend. I hope it is not true that there is glee in Bolton's leaving.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Subject: Why Israel is Suspicious of UnitedNations?<br><br><br><br>> The American Left can hardly contain itself with John Bolton's > impending departure from the U.N. > > Here's something he said at a recent U.N. tribunal, er, assembly > meeting on sanctioning Israel. > > [...]
8548 70 50_Re: Fw: Why Israel is Suspicious of UnitedNations?11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 5 Dec 2006 21:48:33 -0500455_ISO-8859-1 I think glee would an understatement.<br><br>John Bolton said some pointed and true things about the UN that no one else was willing to say and has been a defender of Israel, but he was an unmitigated disaster as our UN ambassador. He has reportedly alienated nearly everyone--and the role of the ambassador is not to be a prophet spitting at the wind but to be a diplomat who can convince some other countries to support the US position. [...]
8619 50 22_Education and Politics12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 06:43:56 -0500664_us-ascii Haverot/im The green line, an eventual equitable and workable division of the holy land into a no longer wholly (Jewish) land, and yes, hopes for peace have been prominent in the news lately. Yuli Tamir, minister of Education and Culture has determined that maps for government approved geography textbooks in Israel's schools will again show the green line. In an earlier position paper she prepared for the Israel Policy Forum (see the attachment) she enumerated three possible schemes for dealing with demographic, ethnic/national and democratic considerations of the Palestinian-Jewish interface. She comes by her views honestly. She holds a phd [...]
8670 202 65_Fw: Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?.....!!!!!!!!!!!!!11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 07:04:36 -0500545_iso-8859-1 For Heidi, for whom the listserv is not behaving<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "shelheid" <shelheid@mail.gezer.org.il> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:01 AM Subject: RE: Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?.....!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Sharon, number 8 is correct and is a result of number 9. I don't know the > details of 1 and 2 or 10. The others are OK. Does it surprise you that the > U.N. is not our friend? > > > > To Ken - I have to agree that I don't much care what book anyone swears in > with. But [...]
8873 26 37_An Email from the Israel Policy Forum12_Amnon Hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:19:46 -0500558_UTF-8 <br><br>You have been sent this message from gershon-keileh@013.net as a courtesy of the Israel Policy Forum - http://www.ipforum.org<br><br>Here is the Yuli Tamir piece<br><br>'Israel&#8217;s Border Options' http://www.ipforum.org/display.cfm?Rid=1165<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
8900 81 11_James Baker11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:26:55 -0800467_iso-8859-1 Someone please tell me why I should not have a grave and overwhelming feeling of trepidation after listening to James Baker's recommendations for dealing with the "problem of Iraq".<br><br>Point number one: Please tell me what the "Israeli-Palestinian" situation has to do with Iraq. Baker seems to think it does.<br><br>Point number two: Please tell me what "achieving a consensus abroad" means, other than what Kerry proposed during his failed bid. [...]
8982 39 15_Re: James Baker11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 09:06:41 -0800
9022 172 27_Fwd: Education and Politics12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:30:59 -0500563_us-ascii Sorry for not including the link for "Education and Politics." Here is another attempt<br><br>http://www.ipforum.org/display.cfm?Rid=1165<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
9195 40 15_Re: James Baker11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 13:10:49 -0500376_us-ascii ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2006 08:26:55 -0800 >From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> >Subject: James Baker >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > ... > Point number two: Please tell me what "achieving a > consensus abroad" means, other than what Kerry > proposed during his failed bid. > > Steve<br><br>Maybe it means you backed the wrong horse? [...]
9236 59 15_Re: James Baker11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 10:37:38 -0800357_iso-8859-1 Noam<br><br>Probably not, but that wasn't what I asked. I am asking if "consensus abroad" still sort of means we need "permission" from our recent or traditional allies (or the "UN") to defend ourselves in the manner we see fit, without the blessings of the aforementioned entities, who may have agendas (however noble) conflicting to ours. [...]
9296 49 15_Re: James Baker11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:09:32 -0500520_us-ascii Steve,<br><br>It was never about asking permission for the right to defend ourselves, and I'm pretty sure that isn't what the Baker Commission means either (though I have to admit I haven't read the report yet). That was just spin. You can fool some of the people some of the time. There's a sucker born every minute. Ringing any bells? How about "Mission Accomplished"? Or "we'll stay until we complete the mission"? Sounds to me like you are still buying the bull-pucky your guy was selling back in '04. [...]
9346 46 25_Re Education and Politics12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 14:43:40 -0500562_us-ascii Sorry for not including the link for "Education and Politics." Here is another attempt Amnon http://www.ipforum.org/display.cfm?Rid=1165<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
9393 86 15_Re: James Baker11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 12:16:45 -0800644_iso-8859-1 Noam<br><br>I thought we'd agreed not to use expressions such as "bone-headed".<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" <nstopak@STARPOWER.NET> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:09 AM Subject: Re: James Baker<br><br><br><br>> Steve, > > It was never about asking permission for the right to defend ourselves, > and I'm pretty sure that isn't what the Baker Commission means either > (though I have to admit I haven't read the report yet). That was just > spin. You can fool some of the people some of the time. There's a sucker > born every minute. Ringing any [...]
9480 66 15_Re: James Baker13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:34:40 -0500357_iso-8859-1 I think this (Noam's) was a pretty good, clever, short, and elegant reply to a question that strikes me as pretty disingenuous to begin with (to say the least).<br><br>All I read so far from the Baker report was a written subtitle on CNN (there was no sound either) that said: "Baker report warns that Iran must respect Iraq's sovereignty." [...]
9547 74 15_Re: James Baker0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 16:45:09 EST664_US-ASCII <br><br>Steve,<br><br>How does 'structurally calcified mass' appeal to your fragile sensibilities?<br><br>Noam<br><br>I thought we'd agreed not to use expressions such as "bone-headed".<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
9622 36 15_Re: James Baker11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 15:04:35 -0700580_us-ascii Yuval,<br><br>I hope you're right about the end of the neocon madness but doubt that it will end anytime soon. The permanent military bases now under construction to guard the pipeline to Israel indicate that we have no interest in leaving Iraq. Israel has huge influence on those who make policy in this country and that includes Dems. Will the new Congress investigate the run-up to the war including the puzzling explanations for the events of 9/11, etc? I wonder what kind of pressure it will take to make them do their job and unravel this tangle web of deceit [...]
9659 118 15_Re: James Baker11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 19:42:22 -0500396_iso-8859-1 Steve,<br><br>I don't actually recall agreeing to much of anything with you.<br><br>If it makes you feel better, along with all the typos in that sentence, the "your" doesn't refer to you, it is more a generic, as in "one can avoid acting on one's more bone-headed ideas".. In this particular instance I was thinking of the bone-head in chief, who I quoted earlier in my message. [...]
9778 45 37_Pipeline to Israel? (Re: James Baker)11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 19:52:21 -0500613_iso-8859-1 I'm almost afraid to ask, but you got me on this one Phil - tell me about the pipeline to Israel.<br><br>Noam<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Safier" <psafier@ELIXA.COM> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 5:04 PM Subject: Re: James Baker<br><br><br><br>> Yuval, > > I hope you're right about the end of the neocon madness but doubt that it > will end anytime soon. The permanent military bases now under construction > to guard the pipeline to Israel indicate that we have no interest in > leaving Iraq. Israel has huge influence on those who make policy [...]
9824 163 41_Re: Pipeline to Israel? (Re: James Baker)11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 19:23:56 -0700599_iso-8859-1 Man! I thought you'd never ask.<br><br>Somewhere I saw a map with bases located along the pipeline but can't find it at the moment. See refs below.<br><br>Phil<br><br>At 07:52 PM 12/6/2006 -0500, you wrote: >I'm almost afraid to ask, but you got me on this one Phil - tell me about >the pipeline to Israel. > >Noam > >----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Safier" <psafier@ELIXA.COM> >To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> >Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 5:04 PM >Subject: Re: James Baker > > >>Yuval, >> >>I hope you're right about the end of the neocon madness but doubt that it >>will [...]
9988 49 41_Re: Pipeline to Israel? (Re: James Baker)11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 6 Dec 2006 22:18:25 -0500443_iso-8859-1 Thanks Phil.<br><br>I can't help but notice that all but the one about Iran and litigation over payment for oil received in the past are from 2003 circa "schlock and flaw". Anyone who thinks such a project is going to fly now or in the next 20 years has got to be smoking crack - even if you could get it up and running (they can't even get consistent power in most of Iraq), how would you stop the bombers from blowing it up? [...]
10038 20 11_James Baker16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 00:39:51 -0500424_us-ascii In 1992 Bush I campaign manager James Baker is reputed to have said "Fuck the Jews, they don't vote for us anyway."<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
10059 293 31_Fw: This will move you to tears11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 01:15:44 -0800403_iso-8859-1 <br><br><br><br><br><br>Subject: This will move you to tears<br><br><br><br>Unbelievably touching. Scroll all the way down to find Hatikvah. Turn up your sound. A must listen to.This was recently discovered in the Smithsonian Museum, and is of a BBC recording on April 20 1945 about 5 days after the liberation of Bergen Belson by the British Army. Just push HATIKVAH and it will start. [...]
10353 143 15_Re: James Baker11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 01:27:20 -0800636_iso-8859-1 Noam<br><br>Much obliged. Thanks for the clarification.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" <nstopak@STARPOWER.NET> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:42 PM Subject: Re: James Baker<br><br><br><br>> Steve, > > I don't actually recall agreeing to much of anything with you. > > If it makes you feel better, along with all the typos in that sentence, > the > "your" doesn't refer to you, it is more a generic, as in "one can avoid > acting on one's more bone-headed ideas".. In this particular instance > I was thinking of the bone-head in chief, who I [...]
10497 150 15_Re: James Baker11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 01:37:04 -0800490_iso-8859-1 m<br><br>They're not that fragile. I misunderstood Noam's use of the pronoun "your".<br><br>Thanks for trying to help.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Mmxmm@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:45 PM Subject: Re: James Baker<br><br><br><br>Steve,<br><br>How does 'structurally calcified mass' appeal to your fragile sensibilities? Noam<br><br>I thought we'd agreed not to use expressions such as "bone-headed". [...]
10648 40 52_Very old report--Israel seeks pipeline for Iraqi oil11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 06:31:54 -0500568_ISO-8859-1 Dear Phil-<br><br>http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,940250,00.html<br><br>Is this what you are talking about (more or less)? All the stories about this (and there were a lot) are from the same time period--spring to late summer 2003, not long after the invasion. It might have been a plan at one time but so was paying for the entire war out of oil revenues. This one is working out just as well. Remember $3.50/gal gas? The Iraq war was supposed to drive down gas prices, not raise them. Not very much in this war has worked out as planned. [...]
10689 187 31_Re: This will move you to tears12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 08:12:45 -0800596_ascii I don't have the time or patience to search the archives, but it seems to me this is at least the 3rd time this has been posted to Habonet recently. I know where the DELETE key is on my keyboard, but personally I'd appreciate it if others (you know who you are, Steve) took a little more time (and thought) before they clicked the SEND button. Just a little holiday cheer... Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, December 7, 2006 1:15:44 AM Subject: Fw: This will move you to tears Subject: This will [...]
10877 158 31_Re: This will move you to tears12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 08:35:43 -0800541_iso-8859-1 I personally am glad Steve has sent this- although I have seen it before, and actually we were all excited in our office the first time, but it got deleted- and I am glad it was sent around again...I don't think you need to complain about it--And it wasn't "recently"- but before the summer or earlier........I opened your email expecting to find the remarks of someone who could be touched by this historic recording- and instead just read whining...I don't think we need that..there is enough going on....chag sameach--sue [...]
11036 64 15_Re: James Baker12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:45:12 -0500756_us-ascii All of them?<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Elihu D. Davison" <elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET> Date: Thursday, December 7, 2006 12:52 am Subject: James Baker To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> In 1992 Bush I campaign manager James Baker is reputed to have > said > "Fuck the Jews, they don't vote for us anyway." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/ [...]
11101 471 17_Prager's Response10_Gil Browdy22_mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:50:39 -0500781_us-ascii <br><br><br><br>To put a final spin on this issue, Prager has responded to his critics:<br><br><br><br><br><br>http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=a_response_to_my_man y_critics_-_and_a_solution&ns=DennisPrager&dt=12/05/2006&page=full&comments= true<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>To be sure, he does little to assuage any of my ire towards him or my loathing of his viewpoint and worldview.<br><br><br><br><br><br>His main problem is that he (as well as many of the commenters) only sees the Koran as a fountain of hate and intolerance. In fact, any holy book can be seen that way. The Jewish and Christian God is vengeful and violent. He kills all who do not believe (check out BaMidbar, it's a bloodbath!), all non-believers will go to [...]
11573 293 21_Re: Prager's Response11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 12:24:08 -0700377_us-ascii I thought we had agreed not to criticize Jews on this list.<br><br>Phil<br><br>from Wikipedia: Growing up in Brooklyn, Prager attending Yeshiva Rambam for kindergarden through 8th grade and Yeshiva Flatbush for high school where he met friend and future co-author Joseph Telushkin in the 10th grade.<br><br><br><br><br><br>At 01:50 PM 12/7/2006 -0500, you wrote: [...]
11867 68 21_Re: Prager's Response12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 11:25:46 -0800420_ascii Gil wrote: In the end, this will all blow over and seem like a speck in the history of conservatives fighting progress (see slavery, women voting, abortion, gay marriage). From your keyboard to God's ear (sic). -Sharon ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com [...]
11936 66 15_Re: James Baker0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:50:27 EST530_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 12/7/2006 1:35:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, gershon-keileh@013.NET writes:<br><br>All of them?<br><br><br><br><br><br>I don't think good ol' Jimmy Baker differentiated - sexually or politically.<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
12003 71 15_Re: James Baker12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:22:54 -0500684_us-ascii And here I thought he was more discriminating<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: JLCAA@AOL.COM Date: Thursday, December 7, 2006 3:03 pm Subject: Re: James Baker To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> > In a message dated 12/7/2006 1:35:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, > gershon-keileh@013.NET writes: > > All of them? > > > > I don't think good ol' Jimmy Baker differentiated - sexually or > politically. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, [...]
12075 450 31_Re: This will move you to tears11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:37:51 -0800584_iso-8859-1 I never got it. If I had, I'd have known. I'm sorry I made you use your DELETE key. Who stepped on you people?!!<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 8:12 AM Subject: Re: This will move you to tears<br><br><br><br>I don't have the time or patience to search the archives, but it seems to me this is at least the 3rd time this has been posted to Habonet recently. I know where the DELETE key is on my keyboard, but personally I'd appreciate it if others (you know who you [...]
12526 46 15_Re: James Baker11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:38:56 -0500573_us-ascii ... than who?<br><br>---- Original message ---- >Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2006 16:22:54 -0500 >From: amnon hadary <gershon-keileh@013.NET> >Subject: Re: James Baker >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > And here I thought he was more discriminating > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: JLCAA@AOL.COM > Date: Thursday, December 7, 2006 3:03 pm > Subject: Re: James Baker > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > > > > In a message dated 12/7/2006 1:35:19 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > > gershon-keileh@013.NET writes: > > > > All of them? > > > > > > > > I don't think good ol' Jimmy [...]
12573 468 68_Fw: Act Now Against President Carter's One-Sided Bias Against Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:57:08 -0800388_iso-8859-1 Untitled Document I am sending this along, PRAYING that Sharon Gates has never seen it before. If you have, Sharon, I apologize. I also apologize in advance for any other gaffe I may commit in the future. (I will NOT apologize to Jesse Jackson! This is between us).<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Subject: Fw: Act Now Against President Carter's One-Sided Bias Against Israel [...]
13042 55 38_What's the Matter with Jimmy? (Carter)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:03:14 -0800398_iso-8859-1 http://tinyurl.com/vbjl6<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG
13098 79 42_Fw: What's the Matter with Jimmy? (Carter)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Dec 2006 14:07:36 -0800673_iso-8859-1 Excellent article attempting to explain J. C.'s antipathy toward Israel. Equally fascinating is the varied literature concerning Henry Ford's antipathy toward the Jews. Any new or old ideas or contributions to these subjects are most appreciated.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Subject: What's the Matter with Jimmy? (Carter)<br><br><br><br>http://tinyurl.com/vbjl6<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
13178 51 21_Arafat's billions????13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:01:05 +0200537_ISO-8859-1 What happened to Arafat's billions? It didn't go to the Palestinans to alleviate their economic condition. Check out this URL, quite interesting.<br><br>Moshe Hulda<br><br>http://www.radaronline.com/features/2006/11/arafat.php<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
13230 82 31_Jewish Life TV- To All from Sue12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 09:07:19 -0800527_iso-8859-1 Our "unofficial" launch is this Sunday- we will be accessible over the internet at www.jewishlifetv.com. Soon we will be assigned channels on Direct TV and Cable companies around the country- and if you have a satellite dish- you can access the network on some satellite which you can focus on (?- I will find out the details)..In the meantime, we have a show called "Get Connected"- See letter going out all over the place from the producer, Ilana Youngheim. If you have anything of interest- let me know--sue [...]
13313 147 12_Jimmy Carter11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 10:12:50 -0800406_iso-8859-1 Today's LA Times:<br><br>by Jimmy Carter<br><br>Title of Jimmy' Op-Ed piece: "HOW I SEE PALESTINE"<br><br>[As far as remember, there is a "Palestine" in Texas, and a few more places around the States. I don't remember seeing a Palestine in the Middle East for the last 58 years, except on maps scribbled out by jumpers-of-the-gun from the Arab world and from the UN (but I repeat myself)]. [...]
13461 183 16_Re: Jimmy Carter11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 11:58:37 -0700470_us-ascii Bravo Steve. You have definitely hit your stride. Full power on. Lower the PC shields. Fire at will. You say the things that most of us barely dare to think.<br><br>Everyone knows Carter 's a freaking hippie fr crissake. Didn't he smoke dope with the Allman Bros in the White House? I mean, after all, what kind of man would write a book called "The Little Baby Snoogle-Fleejer?" And now he wants to pontificate on world affairs? Give me a personal break. [...]
13645 154 16_Re: Jimmy Carter12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:12:37 -0800559_ascii Steve, Let me make sure I understand a point here so I don't unnecessarily respond in a way that might be (mis)construed as being hostile or anti-Semitic. Does use of the phrase "innocent civilians" imply that one is in agreement with Arafat or any particular Saudi imam? Or does one have to use the term "Palestine" as if it really refers to a real nation in order for "innocent civilians" to take on all the baggage you lay on it below? (Gee, what did people mean by use of the term "Israel" before 1948? Hmmm). While I'm asking questions, could [...]
13800 363 16_Re: Jimmy Carter11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:38:13 -0800389_iso-8859-1 Sharon<br><br>1. "Innocent civilians" is the weasle language we have already experienced over and over again.<br><br>2. "Israel", before 1948 had no meaning as far as a recognized country is concerned. The fact that the people Israel formed a nation Israel is a product of the language. "Palestine", before 1948, was a country of "Palestinian Arabs"and "Palestinian Jews". [...]
14164 262 16_Re: Jimmy Carter11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 12:39:37 -0800343_iso-8859-1 Glad to oblige. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Safier To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:58 AM Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter<br><br><br><br>Bravo Steve. You have definitely hit your stride. Full power on. Lower the PC shields. Fire at will. You say the things that most of us barely dare to think. [...]
14427 84 60_Palestine vs Israel: terminology as a reflection of Politics0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 16:08:46 EST570_US-ASCII If I remember correctly, in the 20's and 30's the term Palestinian was used to refer to Jews. A book written by Kurland in the late 30's I beleive, was titled Palestinian Collectives - refering to kibbutzim. The Jerusalem Post was the Palestine Post, etc.<br><br>When those in the Yishuv decided to start calling themselves Israelis, Palestinian nationalists, who had for the most part referred to themselves as Arabs, began to adopt the term wholesale, as a way to differeniate themselves from Syrians nationalists and others who had designs on the area. [...]
14512 84 64_Re: Palestine vs Israel: terminology as a reflection of Politics12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 16:57:42 -0500555_us-ascii Avi. I think the record is pretty much as you describe it. (by the way Kurland was Sam Kurland, and we called him "doc." He gave wonderful sichot on dialectical materialism.) I remember standing on street corners in Chicago with a JNF box collecting money to" buy land for Jews in Palestine." Yes, we used to buy it. A scurilous song we used to sing in the movement went something like this: Men with Jewish noses go and fight for moses - fight fight fight for Palestine. My birth certificate lists my place of birth as Palestine. I'm not a [...]
14597 296 16_Re: Jimmy Carter12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 13:56:02 -0800559_ascii (I'll follow your format, just for clarity) 1. Just because some people use a term in a particular way does not mean that everybody who uses that term afterward means it the same way. Words have meanings that are fairly stable over time (as I have pointed out before), but they also have implications that are defined by their context. For example, when I use the term "liberal," I do not imply the dismissive sneer that goes along with the way some others use the term. Look at how the implications (but not the meaning) of the term "nigger" have [...]
14894 19 19_Borat hunting in TX11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 15:21:28 -0700546_us-ascii If you've never seen Borat hunting with a Texan who has a thing about Jews... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-M1AKVGD-FU<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
14914 228 16_Re: Jimmy Carter12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 16:39:51 -0800570_iso-8859-1 <br><br>> 2. So why was it OK to talk about Israel when it > referred to a people but not a country, but it is > not OK to talk about Palestine?<br><br>THERE IS CONFUSION ABOUT THE WORD "PALESTINE" AND "PALESTINIAN"--BEFORE 1948, JEWS WERE CONSIDERED "PALESTINIANS" ( SO WAS BEN-GURION A PALESTINIAN??) IF THEY LIVED IN THAT AREA OF THE WORLD. THE PROBLEM IS THAT "PALESTINE IS NOT A DEFINED COUNTRY- BUT PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE "PALESTINIANS" ( THE ARAB POPULATION WHICH LIVES IN THE WEST BANK AND GAZA) AS IF THEY ARE A LEGITIMATE "PEOPLE" AND AS IF THE [...]
15143 617 16_Re: Jimmy Carter11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Dec 2006 21:58:54 -0800641_iso-8859-1 Sharon<br><br>Please help me out: WHERE is Palestine?!<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter<br><br><br><br>(I'll follow your format, just for clarity) 1. Just because some people use a term in a particular way does not mean that everybody who uses that term afterward means it the same way. Words have meanings that are fairly stable over time (as I have pointed out before), but they also have implications that are defined by their context. For example, when I use the term "liberal," I do not [...]
15761 79 39_The realist manifesto/ Washingnton Post16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 9 Dec 2006 04:54:58 -0800637_iso-8859-1 The Realists' Repudiation Of Policies for a War, Region By Glenn Kessler and Thomas E. Ricks Washington Post Staff Writers Thursday, December 7, 2006; A01 The Iraq Study Group report released yesterday might well be titled "The Realist Manifesto." From the very first page, in which co-chairmen James A. Baker III and Lee H. Hamilton scold that "our leaders must be candid and forthright with the American people," the bipartisan report is nothing less than a repudiation of the Bush administration's diplomatic and military approach to Iraq and to the whole region. Throughout its pages, the report reflects the foreign [...]
15841 91 16_Re: Jimmy Carter11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 9 Dec 2006 08:49:32 -0500615_iso-8859-1 Perhaps you recall the Balfour declaration? Or the British Mandate for Palestine? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:58 AM Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter<br><br><br><br>Sharon<br><br>Please help me out: WHERE is Palestine?!<br><br>Steve<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
15933 108 16_Re: Jimmy Carter11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 9 Dec 2006 09:02:42 -0500435_iso-8859-1 Sue,<br><br>No need to shout. I believe there was indeed a time when Ben Gurion identified as a Palestinian. Perhaps the guy who's been around longer than many of us can set us straight on where "the old man" stood?<br><br>More below.<br><br>Noam<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liberman" <fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter [...]
16042 208 29_Re: Jimmy Carter- to Noam....12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 9 Dec 2006 10:42:56 -0800585_iso-8859-1 I wasn't "shouting"- just tryiing to find a way to make the answer stand out- But that "tech" thing aside, I never said it was black-and-white. Legitimacy of a people is a complicated thing in this case....I feel, and probably this is a simplistic view, that the "Palestinian" people was a forced nomencalture on Arabs who were kept in horrible conditions byt their Arab brethren for political purposes, and thus "forced" into becoming a kind of 4th class Arab..Look, if we had kept the Yemenite or Egyptian Jews who came to Israel , or the Polish and Germans for that [...]
16251 25 26_Zero Degrees of Separation11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sat, 9 Dec 2006 14:32:13 -0700640_us-ascii For another take on the occupation of the West Bank and how some Israelis deal with it, see Zero Degrees of Separation on Sundance on Friday. Very well done and touching. http://www.zerodegreesofseparation.com/<br><br>Phil<br><br>Disclosure: Those with racist and/or homophobic tendencies will experience some degree of discomfort.<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
16277 204 49_Where did the old man stand? was Re: Jimmy Carter12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sat, 9 Dec 2006 16:45:56 -0500671_us-ascii <br><br>Noam, Actually, when he did his daily Feldenkrais exercises see: http://www.feldenkrais-resources.com/backgroundinfo.htm BG stood on his head, literally (see photo of Moshe Feldenkrais in the link for a photo of the teacher's head - tell me that teacher and pupil are not look-alikes.) By extension, BG also resembled Borochov who wanted to flip the Jewish occupational pyramid in the Galut on its head. This would have meant that the broad masses of hutz l'Aretz would become productivized while Talmudic students and luftmenshen, would only comprise a small minority here. Both these Adamite revolutionaries felt that the many of the precepts and [...]
16482 306 41_Fw: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 10 Dec 2006 05:57:04 -0800555_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Well worth reading.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br>ISRAEL ON THE ALTER AGAIN By David Dolan<br><br>Nearly four years ago, George W. Bush and Tony Blair led a small international coalition into Iraq with the goal of toppling Saddam Hussein's notorious regime and replacing it with a Western-style democracy. I wrote then about my strong misgivings over this dramatic action, despite the fact that I was as eager as anyone who suffered Saddam's nightly 1991 Scud attacks upon Israel to see the evil dictator removed from power. [...]
16789 138 41_Re: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 10 Dec 2006 09:32:52 -0500370_iso-8859-1 Why do I have the feeling that if you read this fellow 4 years ago, with his notion that attacking Iraq was a bad idea, you'd have called him a surrender monkey or terrorist dupe?<br><br>Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 8:57 AM Subject: Fw: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL [...]
16928 146 45_Re: Fw: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:08:35 -0500536_ISO-8859-1 Why is the 4th word in the title "alter" not "altar"? Is it a pun I don't get? Judy<br><br>Steve Klein wrote:<br><br>> > Well worth reading. > > Steve > > > > *ISRAEL ON THE ALTER AGAIN > By David Dolan > * > Nearly four years ago, George W. Bush and Tony Blair led a small > international coalition into Iraq with the goal of toppling Saddam > Hussein's notorious regime and replacing it with a Western-style > democracy. I wrote then about my strong misgivings over this dramatic > action, despite the fact that I was [...]
17075 249 45_Re: Fw: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 10 Dec 2006 10:16:36 -0800568_iso-8859-1 One of the meanings in the dictionary is "to castrate"-- Or- if he is British- it may be an alternate spelling of the word for "altar"-- I don't know- it is an intersting point- but the main thrust of the article is scary and all too realistic- I recently read an article about how Hezbollah is smuggling more missles ( and they are longer range) into Lebanon, and no one is doing anything about it...right under the eyes of the UN and the Lebanese army--and yet- they are banning Israel's overflights.... why isn't anything being said in the UN about [...]
17325 147 9_Palestine12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:27:58 -0500658_windows-1252 Haverim/ot Some more about Israel/Palestine despite my earlier claim that the treatment of the topic may be a bit much of a muchness. Palestine 1897: First Zionist congress in Switzerland issues the Basle Program "calling for a home for the Jewish people in Palestine" and establishes the WZO (World Zionist Organization) to that end. (sic) Source http://www.palestine-net.com/ The link is to a A historical list about Palestine I found on an avowedly Palestinian "site about Palestine, covering its history, culture, geography, business, tourism and news." Going back much further into my own memory bank I recall that the British Mandate [...]
17473 200 41_Re: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 10 Dec 2006 15:11:02 -0500614_iso-8859-1 The crass misspelling right in the title lead to me read these two paragraphs. What "alter" is the guy possibly talking about? I guess he must really mean "altar." Never mind. Then in the second paragraph it says: "were hardly unanamous." Another crass English misspelling. I wonder where people have to go to get this type of infantile, unprofessional editing. I mean, it is ok in a quick Habonet message for people to misspell to this degree. But in a supposedly professionally edited and published piece?? Just curious. (To American English readers, also, sorry for the spelling nitpicking by a [...]
17674 426 48_In case you haven't had enough of Prager yet....0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sun, 10 Dec 2006 21:10:26 -0500543_utf-8 I share this with you as former NY mayor Ed Koch, no flaming liberal, is calling for Prager's removal from the United States Holocaust Memorial Council, where they are both members.<br><br>From the Forward:<br><br>"There is no question that Dennis Prager is a bigot who ought to be repudiated even by his closest supporters,” Koch said this morning in an interview with the Forward. “His statements are a disgrace … and I will be down there calling for the council to condemn him, and, if we have the power, to remove him.” [...]
18101 234 39_Forward Editorial on Bolton's Departure11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:35:38 -0500641_ISO-8859-1 A different view than the one Steve sent last week- Judy<br><br><br><br>Fri8day Dec 8 2006 Editorial in the Forward-- "Dear John"<br><br>John Bolton's resignation as American ambassador to the United Nations is an important and welcome step in the national healing process that began on Election Day, November 7. Bolton's presence at the U.N. for the past 15 months, despite the Senate's refusal to confirm him, has been a daily reminder of the Bush administration's arrogant, willful style of governance, of its contempt for the meaning of democracy and the separation of powers. Bolton's performance at the world body, his [...]
18336 382 13_Re: Palestine10_Gil Browdy22_mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:40:30 -0500527_US-ASCII <br><br><br><br>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/799185.html<br><br><br><br><br><br>This article directly deals with some of the arguments being held on Habonet right now. The article itself is light on the logical flow, but heavy on the persuasive passion. Enjoy.<br><br><br><br><br><br>-Gil<br><br><br><br><br><br>_____<br><br>From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadary Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 2:28 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Palestine [...]
18719 359 43_Re: Forward Editorial on Bolton's Departure11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:43:52 -0800516_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Judy<br><br>I think this is a well-written and well-thought out piece. Yes, it is different from what I sent in last week. Both are viewpoints; both valid as viewpoints. My only question is this: Why is it germaine to mention that I was the one sending it in? (I am not taking the fact you did this as anything positive or negative- I am just curious.) It seems to me the issue being discussed ir the efficacy-or lack thereof- of Bolton's style. Why was it important that "Steve sent it in"? [...]
19079 118 13_Fw: Read this11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 07:51:37 -0800565_Windows-1252 <br><br>Not a lot new here, except for clearly spelling out Baker's sell-out of Israel for little more than temporary, ephemeral appeasement of some very bad people. For that alone, it is worth reading.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Jews Wake Up!<br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
19198 65 13_Movie trailer13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:00:18 +0200512_us-ascii As usual, Mel has it all summed up:<br><br>http://video.nbc.com/player.html?dlid=49748<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
19264 44 13_Re: Palestine11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 11:01:20 -0500377_us-ascii Who needs a heavy logical flow? The facts are simple - you can't make the Palestinians disappear by denying their existence.<br><br>I think Brad is accurate on a number of other points, especially that those who deny the "legitimacy" of Palestinian peoplehood are racist, in exactly the same way as Arafat and the Mufti when they denied Jewish ties to Jerusalem. [...]
19309 200 13_Re: Palestine12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:04:06 -0800743_windows-1252 Once again, Bradley hits the nail on the head. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Gil Browdy <mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 6:40:30 AM Subject: Re: Palestine http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/799185.html This article directly deals with some of the arguments being held on Habonet right now. The article itself is light on the logical flow, but heavy on the persuasive passion. Enjoy. -Gil From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadary Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 2:28 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Palestine Haverim/ot Some more about Israel/Palestine despite my earlier claim that the treatment of the [...]
19510 281 41_Re: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:14:06 -0800409_iso-8859-1 Yuval<br><br>It isn't a misspelling. It is a play on words. (If you knew that, and were just jerking our chain, then you got me).<br><br>For those totally confused, "alter" means to modify or change.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Yuval Warshai To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [ISRAELUPDATE] IRAQ REPORT AND ISRAEL [...]
19792 161 43_Re: Forward Editorial on Bolton's Departure11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 11:47:59 -0500539_windows-1252 I mentioned it because when you sent it you make a comment something like" I hope no one is celebrating his departure." (Not an exact quote) Judy<br><br>Steve Klein wrote:<br><br>> Judy > I think this is a well-written and well-thought out piece. Yes, it > is different from what I sent in last week. Both are viewpoints; > both valid as viewpoints. My only question is this: Why is it > germaine to mention that I was the one sending it in? (I am not > taking the fact you did this as anything positive or negative- I > [...]
19954 147 16_Re: Jimmy Carter11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 08:57:55 -0800434_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Noam<br><br>I carefully formed the question as "is" and not as "was", to avoid the confusion. The difference in the two tenses is huge.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Perhaps you recall the Balfour declaration? Or the British Mandate for Palestine? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:58 AM Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter [...]
20102 579 25_Fw: let's talk with syria11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:05:25 -0800414_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Just don't forget with whom you are dealing.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>"Let's talk with Syria"!<br><br><br><br>Why would Syria, Iran and the terror groups they jointly sponsor so utterly deride the notion that the West will ever unite to effectively deter them? An early case in point is the small matter of Nezar Hindawi and the Syrian bid to bomb El Al. [...]
20682 181 43_Re: Forward Editorial on Bolton's Departure11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:09:37 -0800638_Windows-1252 Thank you<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" <gelman@EROLS.COM> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: Forward Editorial on Bolton's Departure<br><br><br><br>>I mentioned it because when you sent it you make a comment something like" >I hope no one is celebrating his departure." (Not an exact quote) > Judy > > Steve Klein wrote: > >> Judy >> I think this is a well-written and well-thought out piece. Yes, it >> is different from what I sent in last week. Both are viewpoints; >> both valid as viewpoints. My only question is this: Why [...]
20864 130 49_Palestine or no Palestine (was: Re: Jimmy Carter)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:28:00 -0800628_ascii Steve- Perhaps you could read the Haaretz column about this subject to which an earlier link pointed. The article is not very long and makes a number of points that are germane to your question. Then perhaps this discussion of "where exactly is Palestine" could either come to a close or take a turn into more productive territory (no pun intended). -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 8:57:55 AM Subject: Re: Jimmy Carter Noam I carefully formed the question as "is" and not as "was", to avoid the confusion. The [...]
20995 104 25_Re: let's talk with syria12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:45:01 -0800569_ascii Steve- I've heard and read sentiments like what you write below many times and I wonder what exactly you mean by this admonition. When I have heard it in the past, it has often sounded like "don't deal with them because they're really bad" --you even supplied evidence of how bad some of these people are. But when past admonishers have been asked, they have generally said something like "oh, no, I understand that we have to talk to our enemies" and they (the admonishers) have acknowledged that you don't have to make peace with your friends, you have to [...]
21100 325 53_Re: Palestine or no Palestine (was: Re: Jimmy Carter)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 10:03:03 -0800433_iso-8859-1 I read it.<br><br>I do not dispute there is now a people called the Palestinians. That is just a fact that has been thrust on the world. It is now fairly easy to see who they are and where they are.<br><br>I am contending that people who think they can point out on a map where Palestine is, are neither the friends of the Jews nor friends of the Palestinians (or as Amnon might rightly say, the "Neo-Palestinians"). [...]
21426 60 9_Merkava 413_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:05:23 +0200489_us-ascii http://www.strategypage.com/military_photos/20061210225137.aspx<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
21487 49 41_Virtual Library Museums around the world.16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 10:14:33 -0800584_iso-8859-1 Virtual Library Museums around the world<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>http://icom.museum/vlmp/world.html<br><br><br><br>--------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG
21537 246 53_Re: Palestine or no Palestine (was: Re: Jimmy Carter)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 10:42:02 -0800602_ascii Steve- You seem to imply that there is some importance in the existence or non-existence of a recognized place called "Palestine." What difference does it make if someone points in the general area of Israel/West Bank/Gaza/Jordan and says "there"? The issues are the same, whether one includes Jordan, or includes all of Israel, or only part of Israel, or includes all or part of Sinai, or whatever. . Here's an analogy: when someone mentions "Southern California," does it matter that there is no one official map that defines what is in Southern California and what is not? Does it matter [...]
21784 566 53_Re: Palestine or no Palestine (was: Re: Jimmy Carter)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:19:32 -0800592_iso-8859-1 Sharon<br><br>Thank you for the opportunity to tell you what difference it makes, because you may not be the only one confused on this issue. When someone points in the direction of "Palestine" (indicating roughly the same area occupied by a place called "Israel") and says the current [Jewish] occupants all need to either die, be killed off or leave for somewhere else, to make way for the "real" Palestinians, one should begin to understand that it is no longer a semantic exercise but rather a highly charged, dangerous one. You do not have to understand it that way, but [...]
22351 337 53_Re: Palestine or no Palestine (was: Re: Jimmy Carter)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:26:50 -0800643_ascii What if they point in the direction of "Palestine" (indicating roughly the same area occupied by a place called "Israel") and don't say anything at all about the current [Jewish] occupants all needing to either die, be killed off or leave for somewhere else, to make way for the "real" Palestinians? Or is that beyond the realm of possibility? -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, December 11, 2006 4:19:32 PM Subject: Re: Palestine or no Palestine (was: Re: Jimmy Carter) Sharon Thank you for the opportunity to tell you what difference it makes, [...]
22689 260 25_Re: let's talk with syria11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:27:53 -0800448_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Sharon<br><br>I dunno. So many choices, so little time. Just kidding. I took a look at your "choices" wish list and didn't see really anything that appealed to me. Could you send along a few more for me to choose from?<br><br>Steve<br><br>PS The "awful stuff" you deleted- Was it awful what was written, or what was written about. You didn't indicate, and I am sure some of us [are. . . .remain. . . .have become] confused. [...]
22950 344 42_One day forgotten, eight worth remembering16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 03:58:07 -0800575_iso-8859-1 A street named for a date was pretty unusual in the neighborhood in which I grew up. In fact, it was unheard of. We had street names like Pimlico Road, Greenspring Avenue and Woodvalley Drive, but nothing that I can recall that contained a date.<br><br>Not far from our apartment in Jerusalem, though, and adjacent to the school our boys attend, there's a street named "the 29th of November." No year in the name, because there doesn't need to be. Everyone here knows, or at least used to know, what "kaf tet be-November" represents. 1947. The date of the UN [...]
23295 42 46_Re: One day forgotten, eight worth remembering11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:05:22 EST523_US-ASCII I thought I was the only one who remembered Nov. 29, 1947. Thanks you made me feel better. Sylvia<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
23338 197 25_Re: let's talk with syria12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:57:44 -0800558_ascii Steve- I asked you to explain what you meant in your posting and you declined to explain yourself, citing as your reason that I had not giving you a choice that appealed to you. Instead of being cute, how about just answering the question? You made the statement; I merely suggested some possible interpretations that come to my mind. If all you're trying to do is ring the doorbell and run, then fine; I'll know how much to pay attention the next time the doorbell rings. If you are interested in a discussion, then drop the cute stuff. - Sharon [...]
23536 324 18_Time - The Big Lie16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:33:40 -0500687_ISO-8859-1 <br><br><http://www.time.com/time><br><br><br><br>Sunday, Dec. 10, 2006 The Big Lie About the Middle East Tell James Baker: Arab nations don't care about the Palestinians By LISA BEYER<br><br>No sensible person is against peacemaking in the Holy Land. Applause and hopefulness would seem the reasonable reaction to the Iraq Study Group's recommendation that the Bush Administration "act boldly" and "as soon as possible" to resolve the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians. But as a front-row observer of similar efforts over the past 15 years, I could muster neither response. In lumping the Iraq mess in with the Palestinian problem--and suggesting the first [...]
23861 37 40_Brad Burstyn's "no Palestinians" problem16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:05:17 -0500503_ISO-8859-1 I read the Brad Burstyn piece whose url Gil Browdy posted to Habonet 2006-340. Brad is way off the mark. Even the die-hard right-wingers of the Conference of Presidents regretfully acknowledge the existance of Palestinians and--in Burstyn's parlance--the problems of which they are a part. Actually, the piece says a lot more about Brad than it does about American Jewry. It says that in his years in Israel he's become very removed from the socio-political realities of American Jewry. [...]
23899 473 29_[QUAR] RE: Time - The Big Lie13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 20:15:19 +0200396_us-ascii Damn Elihu, I was just about to send this article to the Habonet when I noticed that you beat me to it. Great minds think alike and all that.<br><br>Jon<br><br>-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 7:34 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Time - The Big Lie [...]
24373 60 31_M. Zuckerman on Civil Liberties11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 10:39:17 -0800458_iso-8859-1 Do not open if you hate "Steve-stuff".<br><br>Steve<br><br>http://tinyurl.com/y2frbw<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG
24434 29 44_Re: Brad Burstyn's "no Palestinians" problem11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 13:53:18 -0500380_ISO-8859-1 Dear Elihu- I unfortunately disagree. I have heard that there are "no Palestinians" quite often, at least from lay people. Most of those I have heard are Orthodox but I have also heard it occasionally from others. And I have heard it quite often from settlers as well. It is almost a mantra with hard core settlers and with their American supporters. Warmly, Judy [...]
24464 708 53_Re: Palestine or no Palestine (was: Re: Jimmy Carter)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 10:51:42 -0800499_iso-8859-1 Ah- Sweet agreement! Yes, Sharon, it is in the realm of possibility. Possibility. Yes.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>What if they point in the direction of "Palestine" (indicating roughly the same area occupied by a place called "Israel") and don't say anything at all about the current [Jewish] occupants all needing to either die, be killed off or leave for somewhere else, to make way for the "real" Palestinians? Or is that beyond the realm of possibility? -Sharon [...]
25173 83 46_Fw: [House-of-humor] Fw: how about this group?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:13:04 -0800630_iso-8859-1 <br><br>If you have already seen this, sorr-<br><br>However, the original was sans tirgum (translation) and this one can be sent along to non-speakers of Hebrew.<br><br>Steve<br><br>Subject: How about this group?<br><br><br><br>If you have a minute you will enjoy this. Maybe you'll even want to join the group?<br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
25257 144 4_Cute11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 11:16:10 -0800534_iso-8859-1 Sharon<br><br>First of all, you caught me at trying to be cute, and I respect that. Now, with little time at hand before next meetings, I will try to work with what you have given me, and see where it goes. I am cobbling together "I personally would not talk to them, because 100% of past experience has shown me their untrustworthiness, and yes, I am aware they say the same about me/ us." I would go on further to say that because of myriad reasons, somebody will have to talk with them, if only to show the door is [...]
25402 147 8_Re: Cute12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 12:19:52 -0800561_ascii An argument could be made that virtually all heads of state are "deceitful, lying sacks of crap." (Even Sadat). Those who aren't probably haven't been in office long enough to have had the opportunity. You would not talk to them, but maybe some Superman will come along who can see through their lies with his X-ray vision and will talk to them. And how long are you willing to wait around for this savior? Until everybody on both sides is dead, or only half of everybody? Talking to your enemies does not require that you pretend they are honest or [...]
25550 104 44_Re: Brad Burstyn's "no Palestinians" problem0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:52:15 EST469_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 12/12/2006 1:52:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:<br><br>Dear Elihu- I unfortunately disagree. I have heard that there are "no Palestinians" quite often, at least from lay people. Most of those I have heard are Orthodox but I have also heard it occasionally from others. And I have heard it quite often from settlers as well. It is almost a mantra with hard core settlers and with their American supporters. [...]
25655 222 14_Going Straight12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 16:58:13 -0500627_iso-8859-1 Haverot/im Having masticated the Palestinians, their authenticity, rights, cruelty etc far too long, how about equal time now for the Israelites? Where does our name originate and what does its provenance imply? The name Israel is first mentioned in Genesis 32, (the biblical reading for Parashat Va'Yishlach,) and is repeated in chapter 35. Jacob flees from Esau at the homestead in Canaan after he steals the Birthright (poor choice for the name of an otherwise fine program that has brought thousands of young people from abroad to see the "homeland".) Going to his great uncle, Laban in Mesopotamia he gets [...]
25878 56 47_Steve Stuff was M. Zuckerman on Civil Liberties12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 12 Dec 2006 17:35:00 -0500594_us-ascii Steve, Why did you introduce the Mort Z. "stuff" http://tinyurl.com/y2frbw with?<br><br>Do not open if you hate "Steve-stuff". I do not hate you but I could learn to dislike the author of the piece which you sent with very little effort. Amnon "Marc Sageman, who collected the life histories of 400 would-be jihadists, found that most were well-to-do, with two thirds having some college education and only 27 percent characterized as lower class." Clearly immigration quotas for Muslims should seek 'lower class' -ugh candidates and keep out the well to do and college educated. [...]
25935 29 17_Useful sales site12_Alix Hammond21_ahammond8@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 08:09:27 -0500453_- I don't usually do this but I've been told about a very useful site listing most of the major retail stores weekly sales. Just pick your state and you're all set.<br><br>http://www.salescircular.com/<br><br>Alix Hammond Mosh 1973-1978<br><br>_________________________________________________________________ WIN up to $10,000 in cash or prizes � enter the Microsoft Office Live Sweepstakes http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0050001581mrt/direct/01/ [...]
25965 323 49_Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 07:38:52 -0800577_iso-8859-1 <br><br>I was unable to check this on Snopes. Can someone verify?<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Subject: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims<br><br><br><br>> Friends, > > UPS apparently has decided to make its own Mideast policy by > refusing to deliver packages to Jewish areas in the West > Bank and Golan Heights, but not Arab areas, even those run > by terrorists. So, if you need to send a package to Israel, > don't use UPS. See below. Thanks Debbie. > > Naomi > > > December 12, 2006 > > > Package Apartheid: UPS is Official Delivery Service [...]
26289 231 53_Re: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:53:09 -0500573_ISO-8859-1 I just got this from another source and here is what I wrote to them.<br><br>Dear Friends,<br><br>This is a load of crap. It sounded wrong, so I called the UPS office in Haifa and asked about several different addresses on the Golan and in the West Bank. UPS delivers to Jewish communities in the Golan--at least to everyone I could think of asking about. The representative said that there are very remote sections of the northern Golan that are outside their delivery area. She didn't say this but from what I know these remote areas are much more likely [...]
26521 1080 49_Re: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims10_Gil Browdy22_mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:26:18 -0500521_US-ASCII <br><br><br><br>Microsoft Word also hates Israel. Boycott them, too!<br><br><br><br><br><br>Corel Wordperfect is still the Israel loving program it always was.<br><br><br><br><br><br>Type for freedom. Type Wordperfect.<br><br><br><br><br><br>-Gil<br><br><br><br><br><br>_____<br><br>From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Klein Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:39 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims [...]
27602 494 20_TNR - Bad News Baker16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:57:29 -0500536_ISO-8859-1 The New Republic Online <http://www.tnr.com/><br><br><br><br>Why the Baker-Hamilton report has Israelis nervous.<br><br><br><br>Bad News Baker<br><br>by Yoav Fromer Only at TNR Online Post date: 12.12.06<br><br>In his memorable performance in the final chapter of the Godfather trilogy, an anguished Michael Corleone, clenching his fists, makes a famous appeal: "Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." That same frustration that Al Pacino conveyed 16 years ago is exactly what Israelis are feeling today. [...]
28097 238 49_Re: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:41:05 -0800567_iso-8859-1 I am sorry, ut Microsoft has a huge buildiing in Tel Aviv, and it has a huge R and D department which employs a lot fo Israelis in Israel- this is stupid!-sue<br><br><br><br><br><br>--- Gil Browdy <mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG> wrote:<br><br>> > > Microsoft Word also hates Israel. Boycott them, > too! > > > > Corel Wordperfect is still the Israel loving program > it always was. > > > > Type for freedom. Type Wordperfect. > > > > -Gil > > > > _____ > > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh > [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On > Behalf Of Steve Klein [...]
28336 247 53_Re: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:49:31 -0800559_iso-8859-1 Judy<br><br>You are truly amazing!<br><br>Steve<br><br>(Judy wrote)<br><br>>I just got this from another source and here is what I wrote to them. > > Dear Friends, > > This is a load of crap. It sounded wrong, so I called the UPS office > in Haifa and asked about several different addresses on the Golan and in > the West Bank. > UPS delivers to Jewish communities in the Golan--at least to everyone I > could think of asking about. The representative said that there are > very remote sections of the northern Golan that are outside their > [...]
28584 77 51_Re: Steve Stuff was M. Zuckerman on Civil Liberties12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:54:45 -0800547_iso-8859-1 Mort Zuckerman is a respected journalist- and I don't see why you are so put out with what he has to say- which is basically we have to be on the lookout and aware that terrorism inside America can come from home-grown citizens, and well-to do people, as well as others and that we need to focus also on other roots and not lose the foucs only on visitors- ( as with Britain)...Just this week, a would-be terrorist was captured by the FBI in the midwest who was a Muslim convert, and an American citizen... and who was planning to [...]
28662 448 49_Re: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:00:15 +0000523_us-ascii I think the Microsoft thing was a joke...<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman Date: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:53 pm Subject: Re: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> I am sorry, ut Microsoft has a huge buildiing in Tel > Aviv, and it has a huge R and D department which > employs a lot fo Israelis in Israel- this is > stupid!-sue > > > > --- Gil Browdy wrote: > > > > > > > Microsoft Word also hates Israel. Boycott them, > > too! > > > > > [...]
29111 251 49_Re: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:24:26 -0800618_ascii Gil- Next time, don't forget the smileys (apparently some people can't recognize a joke without them). :-) -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Sue Liberman <fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:41:05 AM Subject: Re: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims I am sorry, ut Microsoft has a huge buildiing in Tel Aviv, and it has a huge R and D department which employs a lot fo Israelis in Israel- this is stupid!-sue --- Gil Browdy <mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG> wrote: > > > Microsoft Word also hates Israel. Boycott them, > too! > > > > Corel Wordperfect [...]
29363 40 53_Re: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 13:33:27 -0500398_us-ascii Steve,<br><br>So are you.<br><br>Noam<br><br>---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:49:31 -0800 >From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> >Subject: Re: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >Judy > >You are truly amazing! > >Steve > >(Judy wrote) > >>I just got this from another source and here is what I wrote to them. >> [...]
29404 578 42_Chabad: The religion closest to Judaism...16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:59:35 -0500595_us-ascii <http://www.jta.org> <http://www.jta.org> <http://www.jta.org> <http://www.jta.org><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><http://www.jta.org/templates/popup_daily_briefing.html><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Breaking News Israeli bill would limit Chabad proselytizing<br><br>A new bill would ban Chabad emissaries from approaching young Jews in Israel.<br><br>The proposal, brought to the Knesset floor Monday by Labor lawmaker Ophir Pines-Paz, would bar adults from pressuring anyone aged 18 or younger to intensify their religious involvement. [...]
29983 62 53_Re: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Dec 2006 14:38:34 -0800669_iso-8859-1 Uh, where is this going?<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" <nstopak@STARPOWER.NET> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 10:33 AM Subject: Re: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims<br><br><br><br>> Steve, > > So are you. > > Noam > > ---- Original message ---- >>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:49:31 -0800 >>From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> >>Subject: Re: Fw: UPS refuses delivery to Jews, but not Muslims >>To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >> >>Judy >> >>You are truly amazing! >> >>Steve >> >>(Judy wrote) >> >>>I just got this from another source and here is what I wrote [...]
30046 25 51_Re: Steve Stuff was M. Zuckerman on Civil Liberties12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:50:28 -0500336_UTF-8 > Mort Zuckerman is a respected journalist<br><br>Mort Zuckerman is many things, but a journalist isn't one of them.<br><br>Zuckerman is a real estate tycoon and philanthropist who owns the New York Daily News and US News and World Report, for which he writes a weekly column. At one time he also owned the Atlantic Monthly. [...]
30072 325 49_[QUAR] One Day Forgotten, Eight Worth Remembering11_David Sokal14_dsokal@MSN.COM31_Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:14:14 -0800321_windows-1255 Dear Daniel,<br><br>I grew up just a mile from the Pimlico racetrack and later lived a block from Greenspring Avenue, so your opening to "One Day Forgotten, Eight Worth Remembering" certainly caught my attention.<br><br>I long for those days, just as you long for the early days of the State of Israel. [...]
30398 40 15_Ner Shel Tikvah16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 07:07:07 -0800559_iso-8859-1 http://my.ynet.co.il/jewishagency/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG
30439 50 33_Search for Israel Google campaign16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 08:36:01 -0800564_iso-8859-1 Search for Israel� Google Campaign Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 18:18:55 +0200 [input] [input] [input] [input] YAHOO.Shortcuts.hasSensitiveText = true; YAHOO.Shortcuts.doUlt = false; YAHOO.Shortcuts.location = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.lang = "us"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.annotationSet = { }; YAHOO.Shortcuts.overlaySpaceId = "97546169"; YAHOO.Shortcuts.hostSpaceId = "97546168"; I just downloaded the new �Search for Israel� Google toolbar. It keeps me connected with Israel as I browse the web, by providing the latest in news, travel, streaming audio, and more. [...]
30490 77 23_more about circumcision12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 09:30:08 -0800624_ascii I know there are people out there who will have something to say about this article from yesterday's Long Beach paper: Circumcision linked to reduced risk of AIDS Such males are half as likely to acquire virus through heterosexual sex. By Lauran Neergaard, Associated Press WASHINGTON - Circumcising adult men may reduce by half their risk of getting the AIDS virus through heterosexual intercourse, the U.S. government announced Wednesday, as it shut down two studies in Africa testing the link. The National Institutes of Health closed the studies in Kenya and Uganda early, when safety monitors took a look at [...]
30568 401 35_Fw: Negotiating with Iran and Syria11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:24:22 -0800621_Windows-1252 Readworthy and certainly forwardworthy.<br><br>Steve<br><br>A terror so great we forgot it at once?<br><br>Spectator By Melanie Phillips<br><br>Dhiren who? Mention Dhiren Barot to anyone and the chances are that you�ll be met with blank looks. At best, some might say, �Oh, wasn�t he that guy who, er, that trial recently, yeah, bit worrying�� Thus the British have somehow failed to register the significance of the conviction last month of a man who was one of al Qaeda�s biggest fishes, guilty of the most devastating terrorist plot ever known in this country and one which would made 9/11 look like [...]
30970 86 58_Fw: Interesting video from JerusalemOnline - a MUST SEE!!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:39:14 -0800682_Windows-1252 <br><br>I was able to hear this clearly by holding the speakers close to my ears. You may not have trouble at all with it.<br><br>But do watch it!<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Subject: Interesting video from JerusalemOnline - a MUST SEE!!!<br><br><br><br><br><br>Hi, take a look at this Benjamin Netanyahu video.<br><br>The link is http://www.jerusalemonline.com/ujc.asp<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
31057 478 129_Fw: FW: =?windows-1255?Q?=EE=FA=F0=FA_=E4=E0=EC=E5=E4=E9=ED_!!_=EC=F2=ED_=F1=E2=E5=EC=E4,,_=EE=E5=EE=EC=F5__=E1=E9=E5=FA=F8?= ,,,11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:51:44 -0800458_windows-1255 <br><br>Not all that uplifting, but good Hebrew practice with fairly simple Hebrew.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>���� ���� ���� ��� �� �����, ����� ��� ��� ����� ��� ������- ��� �������� ����� ����� ���� ��� �� ������ - ������� ������ ���. ��� �� ������ - ������ ������ �������. ��� �� ������ - ������ ������ �������. ��� �� �������� - ���� ������� ������� ������� ������. ���, ��� �� ��� ��� ������ �������. [...]
31536 33 215_Re: Fw: FW: =?UTF-8?Q?=D7=9E=D7=AA=D7=A0=D7=AA_=D7=94=D7=90=D7=9C=D7=95=D7=94=D7=99=D7=9D_!!__=D7=9C=D7=A2=D7=9D_=D7=A1=D7=92=D7=95=D7=9C=D7=94,,_=D7=9E=D7=95_=D7=9E=D7=9C=D7=A5__=D7=91=D7=99=D7=95=D7=AA=D7=A8?= ,,,12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 14:50:23 -0500324_UTF-8 Very nice Steve.<br><br>Unfortunately my Hebrew isn't what it once was, but I got the gist of it and understood the punch line at the end. (If anybody would care to translate the whole thing, I would be very grateful.)<br><br>I'm a consultant, and it reminded me of a sign a colleague used to have over his desk: [...]
31570 74 14_Green Chanukah0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:49:16 EST605_US-ASCII <br><br>Dear Friends<br><br>In trying to explain the meaning of Chanukah to non Jewish friends I explained the Festival of Lights as the only holiday I know dedicated to not just to freedom but to conserving oil. That's right. The miracle of Chanukah was that we conserved a one day supply of oil and made it last eight days. Chanukah is the only holiday that celebrates both freedom and energy conservation. So I dedicate Chanukah as the holiday of energy conservation. May we all work for less energy consumption, more efficient cars, better power plants, and fewer greenhouse gases. I am [...]
31645 139 53_Re: [QUAR] One Day Forgotten, Eight Worth Remembering12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:26:14 -0800531_iso-8859-1 Hi David- I need your snail mail- I have a surprise for you- I used your story as the cover story--in our first chanukah issue--also put the ad in the second one for free- Hope you ahve happy holidays- Sue- By the way- Daniel Gordis' article on Habonet was a re-print- he doesn't belong to the list- But I connected with him becuase he also has two sons with the same names as mine! (Avi and Micha).....and he is from Baltimore!!- He lives in Jerusalem- you can check out his website at danielgordis.org........sue [...]
31785 38 24_Chag sameach and "oops"-12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:34:19 -0800573_iso-8859-1 My last email was for David Sokal- sorry......and chag sameach to everyone- If you are in America, and have acomputer- you can access JLTV at www;jewishlifetv.com. Please do so and let me know what you think and also fill out the form on the "got jltv" button so we can put more pressure ont he cable and satellite companies to carry us. We are just waiting for our channel assignments- which should happen in the next couple of months.......so in this crazy world, there is some light, Thank you Sam for such a lovely thought- although, we are supposed to [...]
31824 104 38_FYI re: JLTV ( from out bulletin)- sue12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 16:57:43 -0800686_iso-8859-1 JLTV LAUNCHES WITH AN OPEN HOUSE ATTENDED BY SEVERAL HUNDRED FRIENDS Israel�s Consul General Ehud Danoch proudly affixed a mezuzah at JLTV�s new facilities in Los Angeles (Sherman Oaks) on Sunday, December 10, 2006. �All of us here are making history, as we witness America�s first Jewish television channel become a reality. It�s a miracle,� pronounced the Consul General. A beautiful blessing was sung by Cantor Herschel Walfish to commemorate the historic occasion. Joining JLTV�s President and CEO, Phil Blazer, for the ceremony were leading Hollywood personalities including Branko Lustig�producer and Oscar winner for groundbreaking films such as Schindler�s List [...]
31929 276 43_[Fwd: UPS Red-Lining - the "Last Word" (?)]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 20:56:38 -0500661_ISO-8859-1 From a<br><br>From a friend's friend at UPS-- Hag Samayach- Judy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* sbruckner@ups.com [mailto:sbruckner@ups.com] *Sent:* Friday, December 15, 2006 3:41 PM *To:* Levin, Joshua (ENRD) *Subject:* RE: This is what I have to deal with today...<br><br>Happy Hanukkah to you and yours as well. We are having our annual party tomorrow, and I will be making lots of yummy fried stuff. This year, I'm making homemade blintzes, apple fritters, and jelly doughnuts in addition to traditional latkes and sweet potato/curry latkes. I've got a lot of prep work ahead of me tonight! [...]
32206 42 28_Re: Chag sameach and "oops"-11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Fri, 15 Dec 2006 21:45:47 EST463_US-ASCII Chag sameach to everyone....,..,.,this is indeed the holiday of freedom......hopefully, we will one day see everyone really living in a free world. Sylvia<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
32249 87 18_Re: Green Chanukah12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 16 Dec 2006 01:31:43 -0500576_us-ascii Sam I always liked your music now I love your social conciousness and HUMOR amnon<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Date: Friday, December 15, 2006 6:02 pm Subject: Green Chanukah To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> > Dear Friends > > In trying to explain the meaning of Chanukah to non Jewish friends > I > explained the Festival of Lights as the only holiday I know > dedicated to not just to > freedom but to conserving oil. That's right. The miracle of > Chanukah was > that we conserved a one day supply of oil and made it last eight [...]
32337 290 134_Re: Fw: FW: =?iso-8859-8?Q?=EE=FA=F0=FA_=E4=E0=EC=E5=E4=E9=ED_!!__=EC=F2=ED_=F1=E2=E5_=EC=E4,,_=EE=E5_=EE=EC=F5__=E1=E9=E5=FA=F8?= ,,,12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 16 Dec 2006 09:33:24 -0500599_utf-8 David I tried my hand at it. But in defferance to shabbat I worked with one hand. Amnon<br><br><br><br>When God created the world, he decided to give each nation two attributes to so that all humanity could develop equally.<br><br>He made the Yeckes well organized and law abiding. He made the Russians stubborn and studious. He made the Japanese industrious and patient. He made the Italians original thinkers and great artists. In short he gave each people two advantageous characteristics. When he came to the Jews, He asked the angel to make a note The Israelites would be the Chosen [...]
32628 72 35_Ha'aretz's Tom Segev on Carter Book0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 16 Dec 2006 15:43:27 -0500618_us-ascii Due to the open, vibrant nature of Israeli journalism, it is not all that surprising that one finds a voice critical of the Jewish communal criticism of Carter. He mentions excerpts from the book that are different from American writers, which is interesting. He makes a good point that the NY Times does a good job of expressing views not considered in agreement with the Jewish establishment, the Israel government or the American president. Although I generally agree with the NY Times' editorials on Israel, I do find their fascination with "all things Israel" to be peculiar. Today's Times featured [...]
32701 23 218_Re: Fw: FW: =?UTF-8?Q?=D7=9E=D7=AA=D7=A0=D7=AA_=D7=94=D7=90=D7=9C=D7=95=D7=94=D7=99=D7=9D_!!___=D7=9C=D7=A2=D7=9D_=D7=A1=D7=92=D7=95_=D7=9C=D7=94,,_=D7=9E=D7=95__=D7=9E=D7=9C=D7=A5__=D7=91=D7=99=D7=95=D7=AA=D7=A8?= ,,,12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 17 Dec 2006 02:20:27 -0500456_UTF-8 Todah rabbah, Amnon.<br><br>David<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
32725 367 53_Re: [QUAR] One Day Forgotten, Eight Worth Remembering13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 17 Dec 2006 11:24:19 -0500373_windows-1255 I wanted to state here that I agree with David Sokal's vision for the future of Israel much more than I agree with Gordis' view. One can clearly see where the roots of one vision are, as opposed to the other. David's vision roots, as he says, are in "the Socialist Zionist dream that I grew up with and that formed the backbone of most of the kibbutzim." [...]
33093 78 18_The Rape of Europe16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 17 Dec 2006 12:01:24 -0800444_iso-8859-1 The Rape of Europe<br><br>By Paul Belien<br><br>The German author Henryk M. Broder recently told the Dutch newspaper "De Volkskrant" (12 October) that young Europeans who love freedom, better emigrate. Europe as we know it will no longer exist 20 years from now. Whilst sitting on a terrace in Berlin , Broder pointed to the other customers and the passers-by and said melancholically: "We are watching the world of yesterday." [...]
33172 95 31_Re: The Rape of Europe (Source)16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 17 Dec 2006 12:11:13 -0800607_iso-8859-1 Sorry for not including it with the piece.<br><br>Source URL: http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1609<br><br><br><br>Rosalind Barland <rbarland@YAHOO.COM> wrote: The Rape of Europe<br><br>By Paul Belien<br><br>The German author Henryk M. Broder recently told the Dutch newspaper "De Volkskrant" (12 October) that young Europeans who love freedom, better emigrate. Europe as we know it will no longer exist 20 years from now. Whilst sitting on a terrace in Berlin , Broder pointed to the other customers and the passers-by and said melancholically: "We are watching the world of yesterday." [...]
33268 305 53_Re: [QUAR] One Day Forgotten, Eight Worth Remembering12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 17 Dec 2006 16:44:30 -0500604_us-ascii David, I too want to say yishar koach to you on your contribution. Sometimes I feel that Habonet, too has become debating society for and against justifying Israel's actions because they seem to be attacked (e.g. Carter's book.) It seems to me that while there are many apologists on the list that what's missing is an assesment of Israeli society as a caring, nurturing educating (including self educating) comunity. Labor zionism had things to say about "Banker and boss hate the workers who stand shoulder to shoulder in every land." A recent news item here speaks of deepening rifts in [...]
33574 115 25_Why G-d Never Rec'd a PhD0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:13:35 EST360_US-ASCII "Why G~d Never Received A PhD"<br><br>1. He had only one major publication.<br><br>2. It was in Hebrew. (I.e. not in English)<br><br>3. It had no references.<br><br>4. It wasn't published in a refereed journal.<br><br>5. Some even doubt He wrote it by himself.<br><br>6. It may be true that He created the world, but what has He done since then? [...]
33690 639 73_Fw: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:01:15 -0800735_iso-8859-1 <br><br>I'm not familiar with this group, but the article is well written. For the minds still open to all sides of the discourse. This is not an easy time.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>FREEMAN CENTER BROADCAST-December 15, 2006 FREEMAN CENTER FOR STRATEGIC STUDIES P.O. Box 35661 * Houston, Texas 77235-5661 Phone or Fax: 713-723-6016 * E-mail: bernards@sbcglobal.net OUR WEB SITE (URL): http://www.freeman.org THE MACCABEAN ONLINE: URL:http://www.freeman.org/online.htm Freeman Center Blog http://www.freeman.org/serendipity/ ============= To Make a tax deductible contribution to the Freeman Center's important educational work, mail check to address above or go to our website to pay by credit card of just click on [...]
34330 410 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:26:12 -0800679_ascii Steve- Straw man arguments, name calling, and guilt-by-association--this is what you consider good writing? Are you a Harry Potter fan as well? (Don't misunderstand, Harry Potter is fun stuff. But good writing, it ain't). -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 9:01:15 AM Subject: Fw: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists I'm not familiar with this group, but the article is well written. For the minds still open to all sides of the discourse. This is not an easy time. Steve FREEMAN CENTER BROADCAST-December 15, 2006 FREEMAN CENTER [...]
34741 689 63_Fw: [House-of-humor] Doubts grow over Muslim lawmaker's loyalty11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 09:27:07 -0800423_iso-8859-1 <br><br>I still agree that no book should be used for swearing in, and that Prager's defense of using the Bible is, well, indefensible and somewhat puzzling. But that is Prager's problem. I voiced my reasons that the Koran should CERTAINLY not be used for this purpose, and this article seems to cover all that and more. If any of these are true, Ellison's eligibility for should be seriously reconsidered. [...]
35431 617 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:35:36 -0500414_us-ascii Ah, Steve Plaut.....another Habonim alum who has strayed from what most of us would agree are positions more representative of Labor Zionism (I tried to put that very gently).<br><br>Ken<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Fw: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists [...]
36049 166 46_The L A Times and the United States of America11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:11:31 -0800275_iso-8859-1 Today's [Dec. 18, 06] LA Times brings us an editorial that stunned me in its content and direction. I am hoping a good soul that knows how to bring up the URL's will help with supplying us with the proper way to be able to read the editorial in its entirety. [...]
36216 113 34_The Mid-East in 10 self deceptions16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:18:34 -0800481_iso-8859-1 There's no struggle quite like the one we will put up to preserve our personal truths, our bedrock self-deceptions. As far as we can tell, they keep us safe, keep us happy, keep us focused, keep us ourselves.<br><br>http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802578.html - Bradley Burston<br><br>There's no deception like self-deception.<br><br>There's no self-deception like the personal truths we tell ourselves about ourselves, in order to feel better about ourselves. [...]
36330 126 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 10:24:50 -0800326_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Sharon You and I ahve different ideas of what "good writing" might be. I hope you have read Harry Potter. The writing is imaginative and gripping. I have read Dumas, Camus, Longfellow, but I've also read Heinlein, Clark, Bradbury, Dahl. Add Robert Pirsig and Vonnegut jr. It's all different, isn't it? [...]
36457 123 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 11:56:51 -0800597_ascii "Taste" applies to what one likes or dislikes. The exact boundary between good writing and not good writing may be hard to define, but certain pieces clearly fall on one side or the other (ask any English professor). Harry Potter may be imaginative and gripping (it certainly grips my 11-year-old daughter), but that doesn't mean that it is well written. The piece you posted used rhetorical techniques that fall short of a well written argument (I won't call them "cheap" because that might be construed as inflamatory). To borrow your own words: For the minds still open to all sides [...]
36581 154 50_Re: The L A Times and the United States of America12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 12:05:36 -0800690_ascii http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-annan18dec18,0,5798193.story?coll=la-opinion-leftrail At least, I think this is the editorial that Steve is referring to. Other than using some identifying phrases found in the editorial (like "UN haters"), it doesn't sound like Steve read the same editorial that I did. But read it for yourself and see what you think. -Sharon (does this make me a good soul?) ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 10:11:31 AM Subject: The L A Times and the United States of America Today's [Dec. 18, 06] LA Times brings us an editorial that stunned me in its [...]
36736 73 50_Re: The L A Times and the United States of America11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 14:11:45 -0700620_us-ascii NEWSFLASH: We are the bad guys.<br><br>Stay scared Steve. Your country needs you and your reactionary buddies loco in the coco so it can continue to wage useless wars and rob us blind.<br><br>What ever happened to sechel???<br><br>Phil<br><br>>----- Original Message ---- >From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 10:11:31 AM >Subject: The L A Times and the United States of America > > >Oh yes, one more thing; the editor seems to think the United States is in >no position to criticize an August body such as the UN while its own house >is [...]
36810 350 50_Re: The L A Times and the United States of America11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:21:56 -0800306_iso-8859-1 Sharon<br><br>Thank you for finding the URL.<br><br>Yes, it is the same editorial. I knew others would be affected differently, and that is the reason I put it out there. I sometimes go off a deep end, and I wanted to find out if this was one of those times. What do you think I got wrong? [...]
37161 280 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:27:37 -0800677_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Sharon<br><br>But did you read Harry Potter?<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>"Taste" applies to what one likes or dislikes. The exact boundary between good writing and not good writing may be hard to define, but certain pieces clearly fall on one side or the other (ask any English professor). Harry Potter may be imaginative and gripping (it certainly grips my 11-year-old daughter), but that doesn't mean that it is well written. The piece you posted used rhetorical techniques that fall short of a well written argument (I won't call them "cheap" because that might be construed as inflamatory). To borrow your own words: [...]
37442 177 38_Fw: The Mid-East in 10 self deceptions11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:42:26 -0800398_iso-8859-1 I scored a 90! (I missed number 6).<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br>1. True or False: One side is regularly condemned internationally for war crimes it is alleged to have committed. The other is shielded, left to commit them at will.<br><br>2. True or False: One side desecrates holy places. The other respects religious shrines, and the right of all to worship as they choose. [...]
37620 193 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:58:03 -0800644_ascii So far, only pieces. There is no question that Harry Potter is enjoyable--so much so that it is almost worrisome. There is clearly something addictive about these books, either the stories or the hype, that whips people into a frenzy when each new installment comes out. But compared to, say the Lord of the Rings, the writing in Harry Potter is rather simple and flat. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Klein <kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 1:27:37 PM Subject: Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists Sharon But did you read Harry [...]
37814 27 42_Re: Fw: The Mid-East in 10 self deceptions12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:50:12 -0500532_UTF-8 > I scored a 90! (I missed number 6). > > Steve<br><br>Mazel tov. According to the test's author, "You are a victim of serious self-deception. Unbeknownst to you."<br><br>Not that there's anything wrong with that.<br><br>David<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
37842 61 50_Re: The L A Times and the United States of America12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 18 Dec 2006 19:31:58 -0500332_UTF-8 Steve,<br><br>I can only conclude that the editorial you read and the one I just read (the link Sharon sent) are completely different.<br><br>> This is basically what the editorial seems to be proposing:<br><br>>>> That the UN, along with its ex-leader Kofi Annan, wasn't and isn't such a bad organization after all, <<< [...]
37904 128 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists0_18_DLerner569@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:56:23 EST629_US-ASCII I agree with the voices that say the article is poorly written and reasoned.<br><br>That said, as I am sure is clear to everyone, Chanukah is a very troubling and complex holiday, lovely lights and latkes, aside.<br><br>It seems the Hasmoneans, led by Judah haMaccabee, like most movement types, had multiple agendae, some obvious, others hidden. At the top was a battle against the Seleucid king, Antiochus Antipater IV, who, unlike Seleucus (one of Alexander's generals and a more enlightened Greek) undertook to interfere with and even end the Jews' religious practice. This is the Chanukah story we find noble. [...]
38033 34 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 19 Dec 2006 15:09:55 -0500313_UTF-8 > There is the less noble side. The rebels were religious zealots. > They fought against the Greek enlightenment and those, including > their fellow Jews who were open to embracing the ideas of the > Greeks. They fought and killed, I believe, not just the Syrian > armies, but hellenized Jews as well. [...]
38068 38 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:25:37 -0500656_UTF-8 In this season of lights, by all means, let us throw out the inflammatory phrases...<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" <dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists<br><br><br><br>>> There is the less noble side. The rebels were religious zealots. >> They fought against the Greek enlightenment and those, including >> their fellow Jews who were open to embracing the ideas of the >> Greeks. They fought and killed, I believe, not just the Syrian >> armies, but hellenized Jews as well. > ... > [...]
38107 282 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:41:17 -0500617_ISO-8859-1 For those of you who don't know who is Steve Plaut and what he stands for, here is a link to his blog. I think that reading one or two entries will let you know all you need to know about this "scholar". http://www.zioncon.blogspot.com/<br><br>Judy Gelman<br><br>kbob24@AOL.COM wrote:<br><br>> Ah, Steve Plaut.....another Habonim alum who has strayed from what > most of us would agree are positions more representative of Labor > Zionism (I tried to put that very gently). > > Ken > > > -----Original Message----- > From: kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 [...]
38390 92 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:39:30 -0500723_us-ascii <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>I agree with the voices that say the article is poorly written and reasoned.<br><br>Nicely said Dennis<br><br>Sam<br><br><br><br><br><br>________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
38483 82 12_back & forth16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:56:41 -0500468_us-ascii I chanced upon the Ameinu website yesterday and found myself in significant disagreement with the first Perspectives article posted. So I penned a response. Below are links to both pieces, the first by Mairav Zonszein and my response.<br><br>I find many Habonet correspondants to be trenchant critics, so look forward to commentary. I suspect there will be more response here than to the Ameinu website. Is there a message in that for Ameinu leadership? [...]
38566 218 73_Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:24:09 -0500471_us-ascii Thanks, Sam. Hope all is well with you. Mary and I listen to the Spendid Bridge CD with love and nostalgia all the time. Dennis<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: smfgrappa@aol.com To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Freemanlist2] (MUST READ) Steven Plaut - Hannuka Among theHellenists<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>I agree with the voices that say the article is poorly written and reasoned. [...]
38785 68 16_chanukah menorah0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:46:37 -0500499_us-ascii I read somewhere that there was a dispute about whether the candles should be lit one additional each night as I have aklways done, or eight on the first night and one less each night thereafter. Anybody out there follow the latter route? Also some issue about whether to start from the righthand side or the left, and I suppose whether to light from the closest to the shamesh to the outmost or the other way around. Golly this is all so complicated when you start thinking about it. [...]
38854 213 61_Even The Best Gentiles Killing gentiles or saving their lives12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:21:14 -0500580_iso-8859-8 I feel that much of the attack lately on antisemitism on Habonet is an unacknowledged urge to bash in the heads of the goyim. It is a venerable and venomous pursuit among Jews and if you follow the link http://www.talkreason.org/articles/sources.cfm you'll realize just how venomous. The cognomen for non-Jews is snakes. As in Rabbi Shimeon Bar Yochai " kill (even) the best of the goyim as you would smash the brains of the best vipers " �' ����� ����: ��� ������ - ����, ��� ������� - ��� �� ����". Other gems: A Jew passing gentile graves or seeing a multitude [...]
39068 41 20_Re: chanukah menorah11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:08:54 -0700598_us-ascii Dennis,<br><br>We use straight recycled 30 wt drained from the crankcases of any car except those from Germany. Rotate tires, not candles.<br><br>Phil "Crank Case" Safier<br><br>At 02:46 PM 12/20/2006 -0500, dlerner569@AOL.COM wrote: > I read somewhere that there was a dispute about whether the candles > should be lit one additional each night as I have aklways done, or eight > on the first night and one less each night thereafter. Anybody out there > follow the latter route? Also some issue about whether to start from the > righthand side or the left, and I suppose whether to [...]
39110 111 16_Re: back & forth12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 12:23:43 -0800620_ascii Elihu- Your response is thoughtful, but I think you missed Zonszein's point. My understanding of her article is that Israel must address the question of whether it is a democracy or "something else." The current situation, in which Israel professes to be a democracy but has a protected class, has led to confusion and a breakdown in Israeli civil society (according to her). Your response seems to me to be more of a justification for Israel being "something else" than a response to Zonszein's posing the question in the first place. Trenchant? Maybe just argumentative. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- [...]
39222 579 80_Fwd: Monitoring Working Conditions at Kosher Plants - Conservative Rabbis Ple...0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:29:02 EST429_US-ASCII FYI<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
39802 59 20_Re: chanukah menorah0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 16:47:49 EST359_US-ASCII This goes back to one of the disputes between Hillel and Shamai. Shamai said light all 8 and reduce the number of candles by one, each night. Hillel said add one candle each night, so that we go from darkness to brighter and greater light (understanding) each night. We also keep the IUCM (International Union of Candle Makers) in business! Avi [...]
39862 55 20_Re: chanukah menorah0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:24:39 -0800614_utf-8 I use 10w-40 in case it is cold.<br><br>Norm ---- Phil Safier <psafier@ELIXA.COM> wrote: Dennis,<br><br>We use straight recycled 30 wt drained from the crankcases of any car except those from Germany. Rotate tires, not candles.<br><br>Phil "Crank Case" Safier<br><br>At 02:46 PM 12/20/2006 -0500, dlerner569@AOL.COM wrote: > I read somewhere that there was a dispute about whether the candles > should be lit one additional each night as I have aklways done, or eight > on the first night and one less each night thereafter. Anybody out there > follow the latter route? Also some issue about whether to [...]
39918 252 20_Re: chanukah menorah11_Sue Freeman25_suecfreeman@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:00:53 -0500368_windows-1250 Several years ago I heard the concept of lighting all the candles the first night with decreasing by one candle each night. I believe the theory was that the amount of oil found in the temple decreased each night; thus, one less candle should be lit each night. I still light an additional candle each night. Old habits are many times hard to break. [...]
40171 91 16_Re: back & forth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:05:13 -0800568_iso-8859-1 Kol HaKavod, Elihu. I suppose I am so sick and tired of having to make excuses for Israel's existence. Americans don't. The sad reality is that, for many, and that includes Christian Arabs, Israel is their home, and that's that. I am consistently in awe of the incredible feats of this tiny nation, despite the fact that it has lived its life in threats of its life, and it is a short life at that...Look at the achievments- not only for itself, but for the rest of the world, in medicine, science and agriculture, not to mention the many humanitarian [...]
40263 78 20_Re: chanukah menorah16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:08:01 -0800328_iso-8859-1 Adding a candle each night was according to Bet Hillel. taking one away each night after lighting all of them on the first night is what Bet Shammai proposed. The compromise: put them in from the right, BUT light from the left, the new night's candle first.<br><br>Phil Safier <psafier@ELIXA.COM> wrote: Dennis, [...]
40342 311 16_Re: back & forth11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Dec 2006 22:17:24 -0500620_us-ascii You are right on target Sue. Sylvia<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 8:05 PM Subject: Re: back & forth<br><br><br><br>Kol HaKavod, Elihu. I suppose I am so sick and tired of having to make excuses for Israel's existence. Americans don't. The sad reality is that, for many, and that includes Christian Arabs, Israel is their home, and that's that. I am consistently in awe of the incredible feats of this tiny nation, despite the fact that it has lived its life in threats of its life, and it is a short life at that...Look [...]
40654 87 27_footnote of thanks to goyim12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 07:22:31 +0200317_windows-1255 HABONET Digest - 19 Dec 2006 to 20 Dec 2006 (#2006-349)Let's not forget during this Hanukkah season to acknowledge the Catholics for preserving the Book(s) of Macabbees in their Bible after it was cut out from our own. Hag urim sameach. (parsimoniously - hope to get back into the loop soon) Jessie [...]
40742 26 12_back & forth16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 00:32:16 -0500376_ISO-8859-1 Sharon, Let me try to clarify, and simply. Israel is a democratic state in which each citizen is guaranteed individual rights, a free & secret ballot and access to courts for redress. Jews, however, are the protected class. Recollect Borochov's aspiration for socialism as a maximalist goal but Zionism as his minimalist requirement. All rather zen, no? ELIHU [...]
40769 65 84_Re: Fwd: Monitoring Working Conditions at Kosher Plants - Conservative Rabbis Ple...12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 01:55:07 -0500491_us-ascii Avi, When I was in Chicago Habonim Doc Kurland urged us to read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, a book on the meat packing industry. It made a great impression on all of us. We thought that it was very American and here you go making it a Jewish thing. God bless you. Amnon ----- Original Message ----- From: JLCAA@AOL.COM Date: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 4:42 pm Subject: Fwd: Monitoring Working Conditions at Kosher Plants - Conservative Rabbis Ple... To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...]
40835 75 16_Re: back & forth12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 02:00:08 -0500629_us-ascii Elihu, I like it when you clarify and simplify. Amnon<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: "Elihu D. Davison" <elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET> Date: Thursday, December 21, 2006 12:45 am Subject: back & forth To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> Sharon, > Let me try to clarify, and simply. Israel is a democratic > state in > which each citizen is guaranteed individual rights, a free & > secret > ballot and access to courts for redress. Jews, however, are the > protected class. > Recollect Borochov's aspiration for socialism as a maximalist > goal > but Zionism as his minimalist requirement. All rather zen, no? > [...]
40911 161 16_Re: back & forth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 06:32:13 -0800608_iso-8859-1 Thanks Sylvia- check out www.israel21c.org if you want to be more proud...Israel is amazing....it's time some people realized it....susie --- Sylvia Lask <smlbov@AOL.COM> wrote:<br><br>> You are right on target Sue. Sylvia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 8:05 PM > Subject: Re: back & forth > > > Kol HaKavod, Elihu. > I suppose I am so sick and tired of having to make > excuses for Israel's existence. Americans don't. The > sad reality is that, for many, and that includes > Christian Arabs, Israel is their [...]
41073 102 16_Re: back & forth12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 08:10:13 -0800621_ascii Zen, yes, like thinking of light as both wave and particle at the same time. What you describe sounds like democracy without full equality. Let me reiterate (since I think my previous post was pretty simple, though maybe not clear to some) that the point of the article is that the contradictions in Israel's form of democracy need to be acknowledged, not necessarily resolved, just acknowledged. Israel's democracy is not the same as American democracy, or British democracy, or anybody else's democracy. This does not make Israel's form any more or less "democratic," valuable, or admirable -- it just makes [...]
41176 249 20_Re: chanukah menorah0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 12:26:04 -0500350_us-ascii Thanks to all who responded. Any way you do its still 44 candles up in flame. I appreciated the recyled car oil input, but realized I've been using synthetic oil for some time. Dennis<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: rbarland@YAHOO.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 9:08 PM Subject: Re: chanukah menorah [...]
41426 268 20_Re: chanukah menorah14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:40:25 +0200425_iso-8859-1 Instead of oil, try Jack Daniels........<br><br>Dave<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: dlerner569@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 7:26 PM Subject: Re: chanukah menorah<br><br><br><br>Thanks to all who responded. Any way you do its still 44 candles up in flame. I appreciated the recyled car oil input, but realized I've been using synthetic oil for some time. Dennis [...]
41695 72 20_Re: chanukah menorah0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 12:49:22 EST560_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 12/21/2006 12:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL writes:<br><br>Instead of oil, try Jack Daniels........<br><br>Dave<br><br><br><br><br><br>We used to burn Arak. I still remember the blue flame it produced.<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
41768 118 20_Re: chanukah menorah14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:06:38 +0200456_iso-8859-1 OK - Jack for Ashkanazim and Arak for Sephardim......<br><br>Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: JLCAA@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: Re: chanukah menorah<br><br><br><br>In a message dated 12/21/2006 12:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL writes: Instead of oil, try Jack Daniels........<br><br>Dave We used to burn Arak. I still remember the blue flame it produced. [...]
41887 88 79_Re: Monitoring Working Conditions at Kosher Plants - Conservative Rabbis Ple...0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:07:06 EST506_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 12/21/2006 1:43:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, gershon-keileh@013.NET writes:<br><br>We thought that it was very American and here you go making it a Jewish thing.<br><br><br><br>It is indeed a Jewish thing .<br><br>Here's some food for thought (pun intended)<br><br>The two largest producers of kosher chicken in this country each process about 60,000 chickens a day. That means they kasher 60,000 chickens a day - soak, salt for an hour, and soak again - each day. [...]
41976 254 20_Re: chanukah menorah0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:30:48 -0500439_us-ascii A better use for both is washing down latkes<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 1:06 PM Subject: Re: chanukah menorah<br><br><br><br>OK - Jack for Ashkanazim and Arak for Sephardim......<br><br>Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: JLCAA@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 7:49 PM Subject: Re: chanukah menorah [...]
42231 102 79_Re: Monitoring Working Conditions at Kosher Plants - Conservative Rabbis Ple...12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 10:37:31 -0800635_ascii The odds are overwhelmingly in favor of the salt ending up in landfills, since the food processing industry does not compost or recycle a significant portion of its waste. Do they really salt the chickens for an hour? That would require the capacity to salt at least 2500 chickens at a time, or more to allow for the time it takes to change batches. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: "JLCAA@AOL.COM" <JLCAA@AOL.COM> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2006 10:07:06 AM Subject: Re: Monitoring Working Conditions at Kosher Plants - Conservative Rabbis Ple... In a message dated 12/21/2006 1:43:03 AM [...]
42334 304 79_Re: Monitoring Working Conditions at Kosher Plants - Conservative Rabbis Ple...0_13_jlcaa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 14:17:21 -0500406_us-ascii a) They soak the birds, cover them in salt and then the birds move up a huge stainless steel conveyor line that takes an hour to cycle from start to finish. The birds are then soaked again to get rid of the salt.<br><br>b) The water and salt are moved to a settling tank. The salt is filtered out and removed. It is sold to another company who uses it to make road salt for winter "sanding." [...]
42639 1212 66_Fw: PAST THE APOGEE: AMERICA UNDER PRESSURE by Charles Krauthammer11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 21 Dec 2006 12:10:13 -0800372_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Missing from this article was a statemrnt made last week by either Hannity or O'Riley: "The American people are not against the war in Iraq; they are against not winning the war in Iraq".<br><br>Anyway, no matter what one feels about Krauthammer, the article is well worth reading for its ability to force the reader to think about its postulates. [...]
43852 1371 20_Fw: News from Europe11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:57:03 -0800523_iso-8859-1 <br><br>This is anti-Islamist diatribe. (Or "News from Europe") Depends on your leanings.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>Subject: News from Europe<br><br><br><br>> This is from a recent BrusselsJournal.com report: ><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
45224 98 187_Fw: Fw: =?utf-8?Q?=D7=96=D7=95=D7=9B=D7=A8=D7=99=D7=9D_=D7=90=D7=AA_=D7=A9=D7=9C=D7=99=D7=A9=D7=99=D7=AA_=D7=90=D7=93=D7=9C=D7=A8=3F__=D7=90=D7=99=D7=96=D7=94_=D7=99=D7=95=D7=A4=D7=99?= !11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Dec 2006 09:02:38 -0800753_utf-8 <br><br><br><br>Subject: זוכרים את שלישית אדלר? איזה יופי !<br><br><br><br>>Sounds like a compilation of da-n near every Israeli song I've ever heard!<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br>> . > > > > > > -- > > ><br><br><br><br><br><br>##################################################################################### This Mail Was Scanned by 012.net AntiVirus Service1- Powered by TrendMicro Interscan<br><br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
45323 447 36_NCR - Jesus' Star Rises in Jerusalem16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:55:43 -0500499_us-ascii <http://ncregister.com/><br><br>Jesus' Star Rises in Jerusalem<br><br>Christmas, which Jewish Israelis all but ignored in the past, has gained a modest foothold in Israel.<br><br>BY MICHELE CHABIN<br><br>Middle East Correspondent<br><br>December 24- January 6, 2006 Issue<br><br>Posted 12/19/06 at 8:00 AM<br><br>JERUSALEM -- The week before Christmas, shoppers at the Happening novelty store in the center of Jewish West Jerusalem had their pick of Hanukkah cards, toys and menorahs. [...]
45771 464 35_Boston Globe - Christmas Eve Klatch16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 22 Dec 2006 13:58:56 -0500483_ISO-8859-1 Boston.com<br><br><br><br>The Boston Globe <http://www.boston.com/news/globe/><br><br><br><br>A Christmas Eve Klatch<br><br><br><br>For Jewish singles, it's the most wonderful time of the year<br><br>By Christopher Muther, Globe Staff | December 20, 2006<br><br>Rachel Davis summoned her klatch to Toscanini's in Central Square last week to help her make one of the most important decisions she will face this year -- what to wear to the Matzo Ball on Christmas Eve. [...]
46236 19 21_Habonim for engineers16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 04:28:16 -0500464_us-ascii http://www.habonim.com/home/index.html<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
46256 63 29_Holiday Greetings to Everyone12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 05:12:37 -0500676_us-ascii Haverim/ot I wanted to send some sort of holiday greeting to my friends, but it is so difficult in today's world to know exactly what to say without offending someone. So I took advice from my lawyer yesterday, and on his advice I wish to say the following: Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environ-mentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, nonaddictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter/summer solstice holiday, practiced with the most enjoyable traditions of religious persuasion or secular practices of your choice with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, [...]
46320 641 30_Fw: A collection of Panoramas.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 05:33:14 -0800447_- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 21/12/2006<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
46962 116 36_Fw: Itzhak Perlman plays Klezmer ...11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 07:07:55 -0800395_iso-8859-1 <br><br>This HAD to have made the rounds. I hadn't seen it, and maybe a few more missed it. Either way, enjoy!<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>This is nothing but terrific! Music is contagious; music is the soul of society and Klezmer music is the soul of Jewish society!<br><br>Itzhak Perlman in a Klezmer session<br><br>Itzhak Perlman plays Klezmer [...]
47079 49 21_PS 22 sings Carlebach16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 08:19:17 -0800641_iso-8859-1 www.ps22chorus.blogspot.com > > PS22 Chorus sings Esa Enai with an original rap by Dritan, or our very > own "L'il Eminem! > > Personal Message > > Shlomo Carlebach by PS22<br><br>__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
47129 203 33_Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:34:09 -0500690_us-ascii Amnon, maybe it is "age" but I got dizzy reading your message. Sylvia<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 5:12 AM Subject: Holiday Greetings to Everyone<br><br><br><br>Haverim/ot I wanted to send some sort of holiday greeting to my friends, but it is so difficult in today's world to know exactly what to say without offending someone. So I took advice from my lawyer yesterday, and on his advice I wish to say the following: Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environ-mentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, nonaddictive, gender-neutral [...]
47333 50 25_Re: Habonim for engineers13_Yehuda Riemer19_yriemer@URIM.ORG.IL31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 19:19:03 +0200606_iso-8859-1 The site does not explain the reason for the name of the enterprise, which is simple. "Habonim" was originally set up in Kibbutz Kfar Hanassi, whose members hailed from English Habo. They also have Habo. people from Australia, maybe also S.Africa. For some reason they don't gve their address, but the telephone and fax numbers indicate that they are still located somewhere in the North. Yehuda Riemer Urim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elihu D. Davison" <elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: Habonim for engineers [...]
47384 66 25_Re: Habonim for engineers13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 10:04:53 -0800613_iso-8859-1 I quickly looked at the site, but could not identify on it where it was from, since they don't readily and openly give their location on it.<br><br>I spent my Machon kibbutz months in 1970 (machzor mem"vav, South hemisphere) at Kfar Hanassi. They already had the hashkaya (irrigation pipes and valves) Habonim enterprise, and Yehuda is right. They called it Habonim in honor of the movement from where the founders garin and subsequent garinim hailed. I spent 4 months preparing their 'falcha' (grain fields, wheat and barley) fields with Baruch Cohen, a Haifa born guy who had married the oldest [...]
47451 189 31_*Bumper Stickers By Democrats *11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:36:22 -0700379_us-ascii That's OK, I Wasn't Using My Civil Liberties Anyway<br><br>Let's Fix Democracy in THIS Country First<br><br>If You Want a Nation Ruled By Religion, Move to Iran<br><br>Bush. Like a Rock. Only Dumber.<br><br>If You Can Read This, You're Not Our President<br><br>Of Course It Hurts: You're Getting Screwed by an Elephant<br><br>Hey, Bush Supporters: Embarrassed Yet? [...]
47641 129 33_Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 14:33:36 -0500613_us-ascii Nah it's just the beat of the music Amnon<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Sylvia Lask <smlbov@AOL.COM> Date: Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:47 am Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> Amnon, maybe it is "age" but I got dizzy reading your message. > Sylvia > > > -----Original Message----- > From: gershon-keileh@013.NET > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 5:12 AM > Subject: Holiday Greetings to Everyone > > > Haverim/ot > I wanted to send some sort of holiday greeting to my friends, but > it is so difficult in today's world to know [...]
47771 136 46_Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone- on being PC12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 11:33:32 -0800546_iso-8859-1 Perhaps this was meant to start the old sicha (still the sly madrich!)...but I have given up trying to be "PC" for a while. It actually began after 9/11, when the "profiling" arguments started reeling the ugly heads....Time to call a spade a spade. If you want to say "Chag Sameach" and only a few people get it- too bad...If you want to be angry at the suicide bombers who kill innocent people...do it. If you want to say American prisons are full of black men and boys (I am not going into a judgement- just stating a fact), do [...]
47908 157 46_Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone- on being PC12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 15:19:24 -0500592_us-ascii Huh? Somtimes the best response to a joke -even an unsuccessful one - is a wan smile. Amnon ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman <fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM> Date: Saturday, December 23, 2006 2:46 pm Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone- on being PC To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> Perhaps this was meant to start the old sicha (still > the sly madrich!)...but I have given up trying to be > "PC" for a while. It actually began after 9/11, when > the "profiling" arguments started reeling the ugly > heads....Time to call a spade a spade. If you want to > say "Chag [...]
48066 241 46_Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone- on being PC12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 23 Dec 2006 20:43:27 -0800593_iso-8859-1 I guess the joke hit a nerve---as some jokes do-- :) (my "wan smile)...s<br><br><br><br><br><br>--- amnon hadary <gershon-keileh@013.NET> wrote:<br><br>> Huh? Somtimes the best response to a joke -even an > unsuccessful one - is a wan smile. > Amnon > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sue Liberman <fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM> > Date: Saturday, December 23, 2006 2:46 pm > Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings to Everyone- on being > PC > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > > Perhaps this was meant to start the old sicha > (still > > the sly madrich!)...but I have given up trying to > be > [...]
48308 241 16_Fw: A MUST WATCH11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 24 Dec 2006 06:54:11 -0800852_iso-8859-1 Message<br><br><br><br><br><br>Subject: FW: A MUST WATCH (Even thogh this might be its tenth time around)<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Marcia<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Click here: YouTube - Open Letter to the World (improved narration)<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
48550 27 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353)10_GOLDWASSER20_morning@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 06:55:41 +0200601_windows-1255 whoops, forgot to give the gmail address: morning2g@gmail.com bye ----- Original Message ----- From: "HABONET automatic digest system" <LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG> To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 7:00 AM Subject: HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353)<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
48578 81 12_account help12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 09:05:47 +0200472_windows-1255 HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353)Someone out there - please remind me how I can suspend Habonet for a week while I'm away. Thanks, Jessie<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
48660 48 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353)12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 02:49:47 -0500718_us-ascii It's nice to have your address. Which Goldwasser are you? Amnon<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: GOLDWASSER <morning@BEZEQINT.NET> Date: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:19 am Subject: Re: HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353) To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> whoops, forgot to give the gmail address: > morning2g@gmail.com > bye > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "HABONET automatic digest system" <LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG> > To: <HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 7:00 AM > Subject: HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > The HABONET mailing list is hosted [...]
48709 84 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 06:06:01 -0800662_iso-8859-1 That's Monique ( the former "dybnnis) from the 11th workshop formerly from LA....GREAT PERSON!!!!!....sue<br><br><br><br>--- amnon hadary <gershon-keileh@013.NET> wrote:<br><br>> It's nice to have your address. Which Goldwasser > are you? > Amnon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GOLDWASSER <morning@BEZEQINT.NET> > Date: Monday, December 25, 2006 12:19 am > Subject: Re: HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec > 2006 (#2006-353) > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > > whoops, forgot to give the gmail address: > > morning2g@gmail.com > > bye > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "HABONET automatic digest system" > <LISTSERV@SHAMASH.ORG> [...]
48794 1974 66_Re: PAST THE APOGEE: AMERICA UNDER PRESSURE by Charles Krauthammer11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 07:06:34 -0800492_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Dear David<br><br>I enjoyed reading your response as much as I did reading Krauthammaer"s article. There is little in what you write that I would argue against, other than ask you to flesh out a bit of what you might offer when you wrote about "learning to defend ourselves". You mentioned Karate and Judo. What were these metaphors for? What are some of your ideas, now that we have the advantage of "Monday morning strategizing", of effectively defending ourselves? [...]
50769 1419 66_Re: PAST THE APOGEE: AMERICA UNDER PRESSURE by Charles Krauthammer11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 09:12:33 -0700547_us-ascii David,<br><br>I agree with your response to Krauthammer's perversions with one exception, namely that you call him a good man. He and the rest of the neocon gang who pimped these illegal wars should serve hard time in a place at least as brutal as Abu Ghraib. And that would just serve as a starting point to address the danger that these totalitarians and their allies represent to humanity. If the Democratic Congress does not investigate the crimes of the Bush administration, actual good people must demand justice at all costs. [...]
52189 197 17_Unfortunate Truth11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 08:29:21 -0800675_Windows-1252 I don't remember sending this in. If I have already done so, please continue to forgive.<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER IS PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE IRANIAN CRISIS. .<br><br>By Holocaust survivor, Solly Ganor<br><br>There are many outraged articles and letters against Carter�s book, calling Israel an Apartheid state. Professor Allen Dershowitz is especially lucid in his explanation of what makes Carter�s book a pack of half-truths and outright lies. Yet among all the protest there is no one who touches on the point of Jimmy Carter�s disastrous political ineptness on the Iranian crisis of 1979. Our memories are simply short. [...]
52387 143 48_Fwd: Re: hi from my parents was PAST THE APOGEE:12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:07:12 -0500468_us-ascii To David all the way out west<br><br>Amnon<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
52531 405 8_J'ACCUSE13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 19:22:55 +0200574_ISO-8859-1 Daniel Johnson J'ACCUSE Betrayal: France, the Arabs, and the Jews By David Pryce-Jones (Encounter Books 171pp �20.99)<br><br><br><br>As I write, it is exactly a year since the desolate banlieues of France erupted in an orgy of violence, on a scale which had not been seen for generations. At the time, these riots were blamed on social exclusion. Since then, it has become clear that the rioters are not just 'immigrants' or 'youths', but are first and foremost Muslims. When they set light to a car, their cry is often: 'Allahu akhbar!' ('Allah is great!') [...]
52937 219 16_Re: account help13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:32:05 -0500584_windows-1255 HABONET Digest - 23 Dec 2006 to 24 Dec 2006 (#2006-353)Jessica,<br><br>Go to the Shamash website (www.shamash.org), then to the Mailing Lists. Find Habonet in the alphabetical order. Click on it, and then either Log In if you have already done so once and if you remember your password (Your Log In ID is the email address from which you are subscribed to Habonet). If you have never Logged In before or you don't remeber you password, just click on Get Password. This way you can reset your password and login anytime you go there and don't remember your password. [...]
53157 95 27_The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 11:16:11 -0700463_us-ascii See http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id328.html for the entire article. Worth reading to get Arendt's explanations of the bullet points below.<br><br><br><br>The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt: The Origins of Totalitarianism<br><br>That the greatest threat to civilization from now on is likely to come from within, not without:<br><br>That the root cause of totalitarianism is the experience of loneliness, which has become widespread in Western societies. [...]
53253 122 31_Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 20:40:46 +0200466_us-ascii God yes! What could be more threatening than a strip mall! The article shows such a profound lack of understanding of what Arendt said that it is truly painful to read. Real conspiracy dreck. Try harder Phil.<br><br>Jon<br><br>-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Phil Safier Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:16 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt [...]
53376 401 31_Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 12:34:14 -0700413_iso-8859-1 At 08:40 PM 12/25/2006 +0200, Jonathan Baum wrote: >God yes! What could be more threatening than a strip mall! >The article shows such a profound lack of understanding of what Arendt said >that it is truly painful to read. Real conspiracy dreck. >Try harder Phil. > >Jon<br><br><br><br>Nice, Jon. Apparently you haven't read the article at the link provided. Educate yourself as to what she said. [...]
53778 34 31_Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 15:21:00 -0500425_ISO-8859-1 Jon- You've been in Israel a long time so you may not realize that there were no strip malls threatening America before George Bush was elected. Judy<br><br>Jonathan Baum wrote:<br><br>>God yes! What could be more threatening than a strip mall! >The article shows such a profound lack of understanding of what Arendt said >that it is truly painful to read. Real conspiracy dreck. >Try harder Phil. > >Jon > > [...]
53813 210 46_Is it time for Israel to negotiate with Syria?16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 25 Dec 2006 13:33:11 -0800602_iso-8859-1 IS IT TIME FOR ISRAEL TO NEGOTIATE WITH SYRIA? >> >> >> by >> >> >> Robert O. Freedman >> >> >> >> >> One of the most volatile issues in Israeli politics today is the question as to whether Israel should respond positively to Syrian President Bashar Assad's offer to begin peace negotiations. While Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert currently opposes such talks, his senior partner in the governing coalition, Labour Party Leader Amir Peretz strongly endorses them. While the rhetoric on this question has been heated, in part because of the recently released report of the Iraq Study [...]
54024 59 31_Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 02:01:53 -0500577_us-ascii Although I've been in Israel a long time too, and know what a gun moll is, what is a strip mall?<br><br>Amnon<br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman <gelman@EROLS.COM> Date: Monday, December 25, 2006 3:34 pm Subject: Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG<br><br>> Jon- > You've been in Israel a long time so you may not realize that > there were > no strip malls threatening America before George Bush was > elected. > Judy > > Jonathan Baum wrote: > > >God yes! What could be more threatening than a strip mall! > >The article [...]
54084 1642 31_WSJ - Two Views of Jimmy Carter16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:56:09 -050015539_ISO-8859-1 Search Results for Selected Items Search Results for Selected It... No articles match your search criteria. Please try again. 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<http://online.wsj.com/search?KEYWORDS=Search%20Results%20for%20Selected%20Items%0D%0A%09The%20Wall%20Street%20Journal%20%09%09%0D%0A%0D%0ADecember%2026%2C%202006%0D%0A%09%0D%0ACOMMENTARY%0D%0A%09%0D%0ADOW%20JONES%20REPRINTS%09%0D%0AThis%20copy%20is%20for%20your%20personal%2C%20non-commercial%20use%20only.%20To%20order%20presentation-ready%20copies%20for%20distribution%20to%20your%20colleagues%2C%20clients%20or%20customers%2C%20use%20the%20Order%20Reprints%20tool%20at%20the%20bottom%20of%20any%20article%20or%20visit%3A%0D%0Awww.djreprints.com.%0D%0A%0D%0A%u2022%20See%20a%20sample%20reprint%20in%20PDF%20format.%0D%0A%u2022%20Order%20a%20reprint%20of%20this%20article%20now.%0D%0A%0D%0AJimmy%20Carter%27s%20Book%3A%0D%0AAn%20Israeli%20View%0D%0ABy%20MICHAEL%20B.%20OREN%0D%0ADecember%2026%2C%202006%3B%20Page%20A12%0D%0A%0D%0ASeveral%20prominent%20scholars%20have%20taken%20issue%20with%20Jimmy%20Carter%27s%20book%20%22Palestine%3A%20Peace%20Not%20Apartheid%2C%22%20cataloguing%20its%20historical%20inaccuracies%20and%20lamenting%20its%20lack%20of%20balance.%20The%20journalist%20Jeffrey%20Goldberg%20also%20critiqued%20the%20book%27s%20theological%20purpose%2C%20which%2C%20he%20asserted%2C%20was%20to%20%22convince%20American%20Evangelicals%20to%20reconsider%20their%20support%20for%20Israel.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AMr.%20Carter%20indeed%20seems%20to%20have%20a%20religious%20problem%20with%20the%20Jewish%20state.%20His%20book%20bewails%20the%20fact%20that%20Israel%20is%20not%20the%20reincarnation%20of%20ancient%20Judea%20but%20a%20modern%2C%20largely%20temporal%20democracy.%20%22I%20had%20long%20taught%20lessons%20from%20the%20Hebrew%20Scriptures%2C%22%20he%20recalls%20telling%20Prime%20Minister%20Golda%20Meir%20during%20his%20first%20tour%20through%20the%20country.%20%22A%20common%20historical%20pattern%20was%20that%20Israel%20was%20punished%20whenever%20the%20leaders%20turned%20away%20from%20devout%20worship%20of%20God.%20I%20asked%20if%20she%20was%20concerned%20about%20the%20secular%20nature%20of%20the%20Labor%20government.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AHe%20complains%20about%20the%20fact%20that%20the%20kibbutz%20synagogue%20he%20enters%20is%20nearly%20empty%20on%20the%20sabbath%20and%20that%20the%20Bibles%20presented%20to%20Israeli%20soldiers%20%22was%20one%20of%20the%20few%20indications%20of%20a%20religious%20commitment%20that%20I%20observed%20during%20our%20visit.%22%20But%20he%20also%20reproves%20contemporary%20Israelis%20for%20allegedly%20mistreating%20the%20Samaritans%20--%20%22the%20same%20complaint%20heard%20by%20Jesus%20almost%20two%20thousand%20years%20earlier%22%20--%20and%20for%20pilfering%20water%20from%20the%20Jordan%20River%2C%20%22where%20.%20.%20.%20Jesus%20had%20been%20baptized%20by%20John%20the%20Baptist.%22%0D%0A%0D%0ADisturbed%20by%20secular%20Laborites%2C%20he%20is%20further%20unnerved%20by%20religiously%20minded%20Israelis%20who%20seek%20to%20fulfill%20the%20biblical%20injunction%20to%20settle%20the%20entire%20Land%20of%20Israel.%20There%20are%20%22two%20Israels%2C%22%20Mr.%20Carter%20concludes%2C%20one%20which%20embodies%20the%20%22the%20ancient%20culture%20of%20the%20Jewish%20people%2C%20defined%20by%20the%20Hebrew%20Scriptures%2C%22%20and%20the%20other%20in%20%22the%20occupied%20Palestinian%20territories%2C%22%20which%20refuses%20to%20%22respect%20the%20basic%20human%20rights%20of%20the%20citizens.%22%0D%0A%0D%0AWhether%20in%20its%20secular%20and/or%20observant%20manifestations%2C%20Israel%20clearly%20discomfits%20Mr.%20Carter%2C%20a%20man%20who%2C%20even%20as%20president%2C%20considered%20himself%20in%20%22full-time%20Christian%20service.%22%20Yet%2C%20in%20revealing%20his%20unease%20with%20the%20idea%20of%20Jewish%20statehood%2C%20Mr.%20Carter%20sets%20himself%20apart%20from%20many%20U.S.%20presidents%20before%20and%20after%20him%2C%20as%20well%20as%20from%20nearly%20400%20years%20of%20American%20Christian%20thought.%0D%0A*%20*%20*%0D%0A%0D%0AGenerations%20of%20Christians%20in%20this%20country%2C%20representing%20a%20variety%20of%20dominations%2C%20laymen%20and%20clergy%20alike%2C%20have%20embraced%20the%20concept%20of%20renewed%20Jewish%20sovereignty%20in%20Palestine.%20The%20passion%20was%20already%20evident%20in%201620%20when%20William%20Bradford%20alighted%20on%20Plymouth%20Rock%20and%20exclaimed%2C%20%22Come%2C%20let%20us%20declare%20the%20word%20of%20God%20in%20Zion.%22%20Bradford%20was%20a%20leader%20of%20the%20Puritans%2C%20dissenting%20Protestants%20who%2C%20in%20their%20search%20for%20an%20unsullied%20religion%20and%20the%20strength%20to%20resist%20state%20oppression%2C%20turned%20to%20the%20Old%20Testament.%20There%2C%20they%20found%20a%20God%20who%20spoke%20directly%20to%20his%20people%2C%20who%20promised%20to%20deliver%20them%20from%20bondage%20and%20return%20them%20to%20their%20ancestral%20homeland.%20Appropriating%20this%20narrative%2C%20the%20Puritans%20fashioned%20themselves%20as%20the%20New%20Jews%20and%20America%20as%20their%20New%20Promised%20Land.%20They%20gave%20their%20children%20Hebrew%20names%20--%20David%2C%20Benjamin%2C%20Sarah%2C%20Rebecca%20--%20and%20called%20over%201%2C000%20of%20their%20towns%20after%20Biblical%20places%2C%20including%20Bethlehem%2C%20Bethel%20and%2C%20of%20course%2C%20New%20Canaan.%0D%0A%0D%0AIdentifying%20with%20the%20Jews%2C%20a%20great%20many%20colonists%20endorsed%20the%20notion%20of%20restoring%20Palestine%20to%20Jewish%20control.%20Elias%20Boudinot%2C%20president%20of%20the%20Continental%20Congress%2C%20predicted%20that%20the%20Jews%2C%20%22however%20scattered%20.%20.%20.%20are%20to%20be%20recovered%20by%20the%20mighty%20power%20of%20God%2C%20and%20restored%20to%20their%20beloved%20.%20.%20.%20Palestine.%22%20John%20Adams%20imagined%20%22a%20hundred%20thousand%20Israelites%22%20marching%20triumphantly%20into%20Palestine.%20%22I%20really%20wish%20the%20Jews%20in%20Judea%20an%20independent%20nation%2C%22%20he%20wrote.%20During%20the%20Revolution%2C%20the%20association%20between%20America%27s%20struggle%20for%20independence%20and%20the%20Jews%27%20struggle%20for%20repatriation%20was%20illustrated%20by%20the%20proposed%20Great%20Seal%20designed%20by%20Thomas%20Jefferson%20and%20Benjamin%20Franklin%2C%20showing%20Moses%20leading%20the%20Children%20of%20Israel%20toward%20the%20Holy%20Land.%0D%0A%0D%0ARestorationism%20became%20a%20major%20theme%20in%20antebellum%20religious%20thought%20and%20a%20mainstay%20of%20the%20Methodist%2C%20Baptist%20and%20Presbyterian%20churches.%20In%20his%201844%20bestseller%2C%20%22The%20Valley%20of%20the%20Vision%2C%22%20New%20York%20University%20Bible%20scholar%20George%20Bush%20--%20a%20forebear%20of%20two%20presidents%20of%20the%20same%20name%20--%20called%20on%20the%20U.S.%20to%20devote%20its%20economic%20and%20military%20might%20toward%20recreating%20a%20Jewish%20polity%20in%20Palestine.%20But%20merely%20envisioning%20such%20a%20state%20was%20insufficient%20for%20some%20Americans%2C%20who%2C%20in%20the%20decades%20before%20the%20Civil%20War%2C%20left%20home%20to%20build%20colonies%20in%20Palestine.%20Each%20of%20these%20settlements%20had%20the%20same%20goal%3A%20to%20teach%20the%20Jews%2C%20long%20disenfranchised%20from%20the%20land%2C%20to%20farm%20and%20so%20enable%20them%20to%20establish%20a%20modern%20agrarian%20society.%20In%201863%2C%20Abraham%20Lincoln%20said%20that%20%22restoring%20the%20Jews%20to%20their%20homeland%20is%20a%20noble%20dream%20shared%20by%20many%20Americans%2C%22%20and%20that%20the%20U.S.%20could%20work%20to%20realize%20that%20goal%20once%20the%20Union%20prevailed.%0D%0A%0D%0ANineteenth-century%20restorationism%20reached%20its%20fullest%20expression%20in%20an%201891%20petition%20submitted%20by%20Midwestern%20magnate%20William%20Blackstone%20to%20President%20Benjamin%20Harrison.%20The%20Blackstone%20Memorial%2C%20as%20it%20was%20called%2C%20urged%20the%20president%20to%20convene%20an%20international%20conference%20to%20discuss%20ways%20of%20reviving%20Jewish%20dominion%20in%20Palestine.%20Among%20the%20memorial%27s%20400%20signatories%20were%20some%20of%20America%27s%20most%20preeminent%20figures%2C%20including%20John%20D.%20Rockefeller%2C%20J.%20Pierpont%20Morgan%2C%20Charles%20Scribner%20and%20William%20McKinley.%20By%20the%20century%27s%20turn%2C%20those%20advocating%20restored%20Jewish%20sovereignty%20in%20Palestine%20had%20begun%20calling%20themselves%20Zionists%2C%20though%20the%20vast%20majority%20of%20the%20movement%27s%20members%20remained%20Christian%20rather%20than%20Jewish.%20%22It%20seems%20to%20me%20that%20it%20is%20entirely%20proper%20to%20start%20a%20Zionist%20State%20around%20Jerusalem%2C%22%20wrote%20Teddy%20Roosevelt%2C%20%22and%20%5Bthat%5D%20the%20Jews%20be%20given%20control%20of%20Palestine.%22%0D%0A%0D%0ASuch%20sentiments%20played%20a%20crucial%20role%20in%20gaining%20international%20recognition%20for%20Zionist%20claims%20to%20Palestine%20during%20World%20War%20I%2C%20when%20the%20British%20government%20sought%20American%20approval%20for%20designating%20that%20area%20as%20the%20Jewish%20national%20home.%20Though%20his%20closest%20counselors%20warned%20him%20against%20endorsing%20the%20move%2C%20Woodrow%20Wilson%2C%20the%20son%20and%20grandson%20of%20Presbyterian%20preachers%2C%20rejected%20their%20advice.%20%22To%20think%20that%20I%20the%20son%20of%20the%20manse%20%5Bparsonage%5D%20should%20be%20able%20to%20help%20restore%20the%20Holy%20Land%20to%20its%20people%2C%22%20he%20explained.%20With%20Wilson%27s%20imprimatur%2C%20Britain%20issued%20the%20declaration%20that%20became%20the%20basis%20of%20its%20League%20of%20Nations%20mandate%20in%20Palestine%2C%20and%20as%20the%20precursor%20to%20the%201947%20U.N.%20Partition%20Resolution%20creating%20the%20Jewish%20state.%0D%0A%0D%0AThe%20question%20of%20whether%20or%20not%20to%20recognize%20that%20state%20fell%20to%20Harry%20S.%20Truman.%20Raised%20in%20a%20Baptist%20household%20where%20he%20learned%20much%20of%20the%20Bible%20by%20heart%2C%20Truman%20had%20been%20a%20member%20of%20the%20pro-Zionist%20American%20Christian%20Palestine%20Committee%20and%20an%20advocate%20of%20the%20right%20of%20Jews%20--%20particularly%20Holocaust%20survivors%20--%20to%20immigrate%20to%20Palestine.%20He%20was%20naturally%20inclined%20to%20acknowledge%20the%20nascent%20state%20but%20encountered%20fervid%20opposition%20from%20the%20entire%20foreign%20policy%20establishment.%20If%20America%20sided%20with%20the%20Zionists%2C%20officials%20in%20the%20State%20and%20Defense%20Departments%20cautioned%2C%20the%20Arabs%20would%20cut%20off%20oil%20supplies%20to%20the%20West%2C%20undermine%20America%27s%20economy%20and%20expose%20Europe%20to%20Soviet%20invasion.%20Hundreds%20of%20thousands%20of%20U.S.%20troops%20would%20have%20to%20be%20sent%20to%20Palestine%20to%20save%20its%20Jews%20from%20massacre.%0D%0A%0D%0ATruman%20listened%20carefully%20to%20these%20warnings%20and%20then%2C%20at%206%3A11%20on%20the%20evening%20of%20May%2014%2C%20he%20announced%20that%20the%20U.S.%20would%20be%20the%20first%20nation%20to%20recognize%20the%20newly-declared%20State%20of%20Israel.%20While%20the%20decision%20may%20have%20stemmed%20in%20part%20from%20domestic%20political%20considerations%2C%20it%20is%20difficult%20to%20conceive%20that%20any%20politician%2C%20much%20less%20one%20of%20Truman%27s%20character%2C%20would%20have%20risked%20global%20catastrophe%20by%20recognizing%20a%20frail%20and%20miniscule%20country.%20More%20likely%2C%20the%20dramatic%20d%E9marche%20reflected%20Truman%27s%20religious%20background%20and%20his%20commitment%20to%20the%20restorationist%20creed.%20Introduced%20a%20few%20weeks%20later%20to%20an%20American%20Jewish%20delegation%20as%20the%20president%20who%20had%20helped%20create%20Israel%2C%20Truman%20took%20umbrage%20and%20snapped%2C%20%22What%20you%20mean%20%27helped%20create%27%3F%20I%20am%20Cyrus%22%20--%20a%20reference%20to%20the%20Persian%20king%20who%20returned%20the%20Jews%20from%20exile%20--%20%22I%20am%20Cyrus%21%22%0D%0A%0D%0ASince%201948%2C%20some%20administrations%20%28Eisenhower%2C%20Bush%20Sr.%29%20have%20been%20less%20ardent%20in%20their%20attachment%20to%20Israel%2C%20and%20others%20%28Kennedy%2C%20Nixon%29%20more%20so.%20Throughout%20the%20last%2060%20years%2C%20though%2C%20the%20U.S.%20has%20never%20wavered%20in%20its%20concern%20for%20Israel%27s%20survival%20and%20its%20support%20for%20the%20Jewish%20people%27s%20right%20to%20statehood.%20While%20U.S.-Israel%20ties%20are%20no%20doubt%20strengthened%20by%20common%20bonds%20of%20democracy%20and%20Western%20culture%2C%20religion%20remains%20an%20integral%20component%20in%20that%20relationship.%20We%20know%20that%20Lyndon%20Johnson%27s%20Baptist%20grandfather%20told%20him%20to%20%22take%20care%20of%20the%20Jews%2C%20God%27s%20chosen%20people%2C%22%20and%20that%20Bill%20Clinton%27s%20pastor%2C%20on%20his%20deathbed%2C%20made%20the%20future%20president%20promise%20never%20to%20abandon%20the%20Jewish%20state.%20We%20know%20how%20faith%20has%20impacted%20the%20policies%20of%20George%20W.%20Bush%2C%20who%20is%20perhaps%20the%20most%20pro-Israel%20president%20in%20history.%0D%0A%0D%0AIn%20his%20apparent%20attempt%20to%20make%20American%20Christians%20rethink%20their%20affection%20for%20Israel%2C%20Jimmy%20Carter%20is%20clearly%20departing%20from%20time-honored%20practice.%20This%20has%20not%20been%20the%20legacy%20of%20evangelicals%20alone%2C%20but%20of%20many%20religious%20denominations%20in%20the%20U.S.%2C%20and%20not%20solely%20the%20conviction%20of%20Mr.%20Bush%2C%20but%20of%20generations%20of%20American%20leaders.%20In%20the%20controversial%20title%20of%20his%20book%2C%20Mr.%20Carter%20implicitly%20denounces%20Israel%20for%20its%20separatist%20policies%2C%20but%2C%20by%20doing%20so%2C%20he%20isolates%20himself%20from%20centuries%20of%20American%20tradition.%0D%0A%0D%0AMr.%20Oren%2C%20a%20senior%20fellow%20at%20the%20Shalem%20Center%20in%20Jerusalem%2C%20is%20the%20author%20of%20%22Power%2C%20Faith%2C%20and%20Fantasy%3A%20America%20in%20the%20Middle%20East%2C%22%20to%20be%20published%20by%20Norton%20in%20January.%0D%0A%20%20%09URL%20for%20this%20article%3A%0D%0Ahttp%3A//online.wsj.com/article/SB116709330748759250.html%0D%0A%0D%0A%20%20%09%0D%0ACopyright%202006%20Dow%20Jones%20%26%20Company%2C%20Inc.%20All%20Rights%20Reserved%0D%0AThis%20copy%20is%20for%20your%20personal%2C%20non-commercial%20use%20only.%20Distribution%20and%20use%20of%20this%20material%20are%20governed%20by%20our%20Subscriber%20Agreement%20and%20by%20copyright%20law.%20For%20non-personal%20use%20or%20to%20order%20multiple%20copies%2C%20please%20contact%20Dow%20Jones%20Reprints%20at%201-800-843-0008%20or%20visit%20www.djreprints.com.&mod=wsj_right_click> Turn this feature OFF. <http://online.wsj.com/setup/todaysmarkets_setup><br><br><br><br>The Wall Street Journal <http://online.wsj.com/home> <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;15359957;6853491;b?http://copiers.toshiba.com/index.shtml><br><br><br><br>December 26, 2006<br><br><br><br><br><br>COMMENTARY<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Jimmy Carter's Book: An Israeli View<br><br>By MICHAEL B. OREN December 26, 2006; Page A12<br><br>Several prominent scholars have taken issue with Jimmy Carter's book "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid," cataloguing its historical inaccuracies and lamenting its lack of balance. The journalist Jeffrey Goldberg also critiqued the book's theological purpose, which, he asserted, was to "convince American Evangelicals to reconsider their support for [...]
55727 525 32_CSM - Palestinian Desire to Flee16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 11:16:20 -0500474_ISO-8859-1 <br><br><br><br>csmonitor.com - The Christian Science Monitor Online <http://www.csmonitor.com> from the October 24, 2006 edition - http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1024/p04s01-wome.html<br><br><br><br>Fallout of Hamas's rule spurs Palestinian desire to flee<br><br>A poll shows that a third of Palestinians want to leave because of violence and economic woes.<br><br>By Joshua Mitnick | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor<br><br>BIRZEIT, WEST BANK [...]
56253 227 31_Daniel Pipes on El Al & Haredim16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 11:21:06 -0500405_us-ascii El Al, "Goy" Airline?<br><br>Given the many restrictions on observant Jews during the sabbath, they have need of someone not Jewish to undertake necessary tasks to keep households and the society going. The idea behind the "Shabbos goy" (as he is known in Yiddish) is that activities forbidden to Jews (such as lighting fires or turning on electricity) are entirely permissible to non-Jews. [...]
56481 281 31_Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:21:49 -0500600_us-ascii Amnon--<br><br>If you are serious, here is an explanation:<br><br>A strip mall is a line of stores that fronts on a parking lot, with the parking lot fronting on a road. Unlike the more glorified shopping mall(kanyon in Israel) where the attraction is that shoppers park in lots exterior to the mall and then walk between shops in a car-free space that is usually weather protected (interior) in all but the most perfect climates (and where access is controlled through a few entrances that can be monitored, hence the attraction in Israel), shoppers go outside and walk on a sidewalk, [...]
56763 61 12_Arab science13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:06:44 +0200489_us-ascii http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp?ai=214&ar=545wmv&ak=null<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
56825 420 35_Re: WSJ - Two Views of Jimmy Carter13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:56:06 EST434_US-ASCII <br><br><br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
57246 177 23_Fw: Please tell friends11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 26 Dec 2006 20:43:47 -0800728_iso-8859-1 Please tell friends<br><br>Subject: Fw: Please tell friends<br><br><br><br>Peninsula Temple Sholom 1655 Sebastian Drive Burlingame, CA 94010<br><br>Phone: (650) 697-2266<br><br><br><br>Sunday talks begin at 10:25 a.m., and are preceded by coffee, bagels and fruit at 10:15.<br><br>Sunday, January 7,<br><br><br><br>Ken Blady<br><br><br><br>A Journey to the Boonies of Jewish Identity Lecture/slide presentation<br><br>There are communities of people in all four corners of the universe who define themselves or have been defined by others as Jewish, but who do not fit the usual definition and whose "credentials" have been challenged. In this presentation, Blady journeys to the far fringes of Jewish identity. [...]
57424 222 31_Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt12_amnon hadary22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 27 Dec 2006 01:38:09 -0500467_us-ascii Judy Thanks for your response. Yes I was serious. I was seriously excercised by what you also found strange >Why this is at all related to Hannah Arendt's political philosophy is beyond me.> I hope to get around to Hannah Arendt and to Eichman in Jerusalem. Amnon<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman <gelman@EROLS.COM> Date: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 1:35 pm Subject: Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...]
57647 86 50_Re: Is it time for Israel to negotiate with Syria?13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 27 Dec 2006 07:34:29 -0800425_iso-8859-1 Did anybody here read carefully (or even not so carefully) the analysis below? (I know, it takes time for stuff like this to seep down...) I, for one, think it is a very good one. I'd hope Labor's representatives in Olmert's cabinet did read it, and are using it to try and convince him to make a positive move on behalf of Israel's pressing "existential needs" ASAP, as Freedman so well puts it. ___ |Y| ^^^ [...]
57734 488 31_Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:22:20 -0800655_iso-8859-1 Amnon<br><br>Now it is our turn to ask: What does "seriously excercised" [sic?] mean? I think something went from English through Hebrew back to English?<br><br>Always curious<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: amnon hadary To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 10:38 PM Subject: Re: The Wisdom of Hannah Arendt<br><br><br><br>Judy<br><br>Thanks for your response. Yes I was serious. I was seriously excercised by what you also found strange >Why this is at all related to Hannah Arendt's political philosophy is beyond me.> I hope to get around to Hannah Arendt and to Eichman in Jerusalem. [...]
58223 311 72_Fw: Israeli invention may revolutionize diagnosis of respiratory disease11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:31:37 -0800569_iso-8859-1 <br><br>What amazes me is that so much inventiveness and creativity comes out of a people besieged on all sides, externally and internally.<br><br>My latest World Jewish Congress newsletter writes about nano-gadgets galore being developed by Israeli brains during the most stressful of times!<br><br>Currently: A hornet(wasp)-sized drone with camera, navigation and armory capable of getting into the tightest of places to take out a threat, and a "swimmer" camera to go through the spine (clear fluid) to take pictues and video from within our bodies. [...]
58535 892 93_Fw: [House-of-humor] The glad tidings of peace processes by CarolineGlick, THE JERUSALEM POST11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Dec 2006 10:43:43 -0800797_iso-8859-1 <br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 10:42 AM Subject: The glad tidings of peace processes by CarolineGlick, THE JERUSALEM POST<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Our World: The glad tidings of peace processes<br><br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Caroline Glick, THE JERUSALEM POST Dec. 25, 2006<br><br><br><br><br><br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>You have to wonder what thoughts passed through the minds of Bethlehem's Christians as Palestinian Authority Chairman and Fatah commander Mahmoud Abbas appeared at the Church of the Nativity for Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve. [...]
59428 314 35_Re: Daniel Pipes on El Al & Haredim11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Dec 2006 12:02:21 -0800662_iso-8859-1 El Al's new motto? "A WING AND A PRAYER".<br><br>(Kentucky Fried Chicken has already rejected it, so it is still available).<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Elihu D. Davison To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:21 AM Subject: Daniel Pipes on El Al & Haredim<br><br><br><br>El Al, "Goy" Airline?<br><br>Given the many restrictions on observant Jews during the sabbath, they have need of someone not Jewish to undertake necessary tasks to keep households and the society going. The idea behind the "Shabbos goy" (as he is known in Yiddish) is that activities forbidden to Jews (such as lighting [...]
59743 516 101_Fw: Rubin in Phila. Inquirer: "Specter, colleagues travel abroad, but bid for dialogue yields little"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 28 Dec 2006 05:48:59 -0800760_iso-8859-1 <br><br>Does anyone have a counterpoint to these arguments?<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>MEF News Mailing List December 28, 2006<br><br><br><br>MEF Home | Research & Writings | Middle East Quarterly | Unsubscribe Specter, colleagues travel abroad, but bid for dialogue yields little by Michael Rubin The Philadelphia Inquirer December 28, 2006 http://www.meforum.org/article/1076<br><br>On Christmas Day, Sen. Arlen Specter (R., Pa.) arrived in Damascus for meetings with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and other senior regime officials. He becomes the fourth senator in recent weeks to break an informal travel embargo and visit the Syrian capital, following visits this month by Sens. Bill Nelson (D., Fla.), [...]
60260 198 52_Fw: FW: Fwd: Fw: Must watch video for all WOMEN!!!!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 28 Dec 2006 05:55:59 -0800430_iso-8859-1 <br><br>----- Original Message ----- From: Yoram Stav To: ELI ABBIR ; YAKOV ABRAMOV Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 11:59 PM Subject: Fwd: FW: Fwd: Fw: Must watch video for all WOMEN!!!!!<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Honey Hecker <honeycares@yahoo.com> wrote: Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 23:29:38 -0500 (EST) From: Honey Hecker <honeycares@yahoo.com> Subject: Fwd: FW: Fwd: Fw: Must watch video for all WOMEN!!!!! [...]
60459 239 16_Charedi Airlines16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:14:53 -0500667_us-ascii Charedi Airlines Unveils Details About Service to Israel<br><br>Yerushalyim, ir haKodesh Dec. 12, 2006 - Charedi Airlines today unveiled initial details about the previously announced mehadrin airline, which will provide provide passengers with less comfort, entertainment and privacy on flights to Israel.<br><br>"Our charedi customers have told us what would make them more relaxed and comfortable, and we're using their feedback to shape our new service," said Chayim Mudka Rubenstrin, Charedi's owner, manager, and big boss. "Our goal is to minimize space, amenities and services, so we can squeeze in as many Jews as we can, while also managing to [...]
60699 388 101_Re: Rubin in Phila. Inquirer: "Specter, colleagues travel abroad, but bid for dialogue yields little"12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 28 Dec 2006 08:25:07 -0800616_ascii I'll start off with a few simple "counterpoints," and invite others on this list to chime in. Rubin: But is blind engagement any better? Specter's trip was his 16th taxpayer-funded visit to Syria since 1984. While he may relish the image of statesman, Specter has little but failure to show for his efforts. Counterpoint #1: How many taxpayer funded trips has Condoleeza Rice taken? How many have previous Secretaries of State, Secretaries of Defense, Senators, Members of Congress, Presidents, etc. taken? Should Senator Specter pay out of his own pocket to do the business of the United States (even if [...]
61088 44 20_Re: Charedi Airlines0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:26:18 EST477_US-ASCII ROFLMAO. Who wrote this? What a hoot!<br><br>Debbie<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
61133 134 20_Re: Charedi Airlines13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 28 Dec 2006 15:48:17 -0500389_iso-8859-1 I knew ROTFL and I also knew this one had to be a variation on it. But I wasn't coming up with it. Fortunately, these days, internetese is not any type of undecypherable code any more... It was right there, just a <control><right click> away on my Babylon tool:<br><br>ROTFLMAO <chat> Rolling on the floor laughing my ass (arse) off. An extreme form of ROTFL. (2000-11-12) [...]
61268 59 20_Re: Charedi Airlines0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 28 Dec 2006 16:01:41 EST509_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/28/06 12:49:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:<br><br>> > (c) Copyright 1993 by Denis Howe<br><br><br><br>What-----there's a COPYRIGHT on this? Good grief!<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
61328 99 27_More Good Stuff from Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 06:12:16 -0800704_iso-8859-1 Please add this to your collection.<br><br>Steve<br><br>Antibiotic substitute developed by Israeli researchers/ ISRAEL21c<br><br>Two recent Israeli studies have shed new light on how to fight bacteria more effectively. In the first, researchers at the Technion have discovered a new way to create effective substitutes for antibiotics based on a combination of amino acids and fatty acids. Since antibiotics are increasingly losing their strength, the fact that bacteria are not able to develop resistance to these substitutes looms large. In the second study, researchers at the Weizmann Institute have discovered that the 'resistance movement' founded by bacteria to combat antibiotics [...]
61428 678 51_Fw: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 06:42:55 -0800539_iso-8859-1 Has anyone seen the booklet described below ("Your Rights and Responsibilities as an American Muslim")?<br><br>Could you forward all or parts? Or a way to get one?<br><br>Steve<br><br><br><br><br><br>Subject: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>Muslim sensitivity training for 45,000 airport workers<br><br><br><br>Muslim sensitivity training for 45,000 airport workers Security officials told 'to be aware that they may also be praying' Worldnetdaily.com [...]
62107 26 39_How to get the booklet on Muslim rights11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:49:27 -0500610_ISO-8859-1 Dear Steve,<br><br>Call or write CAIR for the booklet.. It is not a secret organization.<br><br>http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=Contact<br><br>Wishing you a happy new year- Judy<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
62134 19 37_- CAIR: Know Your Rights Pocket Guide11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 09:51:58 -0500490_ISO-8859-1 http://www.cair.com/default.asp?Page=knowYourRightsPocketGuide<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
62154 65 13_Guitar player13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 17:01:22 +0200498_us-ascii Hey Steve, you know this guy?<br><br>http://www.glumbert.com/media/mckee<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/
62220 190 51_Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 10:42:20 -0500503_iso-8859-1 Steve,<br><br>I don't see this as any different from the various statements by congressmen that this is a "Christian Nation" or Dennis Prager's arguments that the Bible (so called "new testament" in this context) is somehow this country's official holy book.<br><br>Why pick on one evangelical group?<br><br>Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 9:42 AM Subject: Fw: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers [...]
62411 428 51_Re: Muslim sensitivity training for airport workers12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 12:26:57 -0800567_ascii Steve- Did you try following the CAIR link in the article before you put out a general request for assistance? This is an example of a behavior that you have demonstrated on this list of asking others to do something for you that would be very simple for you to do yourself. Perhaps an e-mail or Google tutorial would be in order. Is there more to your post than meets the eye? Are you implying some comment on the notion of Muslims educating and asserting themselves about their rights? As you say, just curious. -Sharon ----- Original Message ---- From: [...]
62840 424 39_truthout.com - A Caution on Impeachment16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:38:27 -0500641_us-ascii http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/printer_123006F.shtml<br><br>Impeachment: A Note of Caution By Joel Wendland t r u t h o u t | Guest Contributor<br><br>Saturday 30 December 2006<br><br>The impeachment of President Bush has become an important issue. For some people on the left, impeachment has even become a litmus test for the "true" progressive.<br><br>For example, I recently received an e-mail from a reader who apparently holds such a viewpoint. (I won't bait the person by naming him or her, but he or she claimed ties to the Democratic Party machine in Minnesota.) This person responded to an article I wrote about a [...]
63265 75 54_Amid Political Upheaval, Israeli Economy Stays Healthy13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:03:46 +0200610_us-ascii That's our factory in the picture.<br><br>Jon<br><br>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/31/world/middleeast/31israel.html?ei=5070&en= 4e076ca42c986a0d&ex=1168232400&emc=eta1&pagewanted=all<br><br>------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/<br><br>To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG For other options go to: http://listserv.SHAMASH.ORG/