1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet September 2006 2 25 18_Keith's Commentary17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 07:01:55 -0500499_ISO-8859-1 I was struck by the boldness, content and intent of Keith Olbermann's recent commentary. We have been discussing fascism. Does Olbermann go overboard by turning the word back on those in the administration who are using it, or is it justified? Beyond that, his words on dissent, and Edward R. Murrow's words, contain a message that too many people tend to forget. Watch it here: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/08/30/keith-olbermann-delivers-one-hell-of-a-commentary-on-rumsfeld/ [...] 28 131 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 08:37:41 EDT382_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/31/2006 12:58:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

Yuval, I know I probably shouldn't ask, but considering that all of the 9.11 hijackers were in America and actively planning the hijackings in the 1990's and that the original plot to destroy the WTC was carried out in 1993, on what do you base your point number 2? [...] 160 218 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 17:23:24 +0200415_US-ASCII Well, that's an interesting theory, but one which is contradicted by the 9/11 Commission Report. If you like, I can send anyone a copy of the Report off-group.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 2:38 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Islamo-Fascism [...] 379 39 22_Open Shut Open Closure12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 11:29:23 -0400 419 83 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 08:22:36 -0700444_iso-8859-1 Even without the Commission Report, Sam confirms what you (Jon) asked Yuval. I think it (almost) goes without saying that the US response to the attacks would have been different under a Gore administration. Whether a Gore administration would/could have stopped the attacks is a question we will never be able to answer (at least, not until somebody perfects that machine that lets you play out different versions of history). [...] 503 351 71_The military-industrial-Zionist alliance. Behind the plan to bomb Iran.11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 10:24:04 -0600537_us-ascii Man am I gonna get it now. Sam will, once again, curse me as an inveterate Israel hater, Guru Hadari will have to make some snide comment about the waste of a mind not in his league, Moshe will tell me to go back to Syria with my Arab buddies, and Steve, well what can one say about our resident Ditto Head? But birds gotta fly and fish gotta sing. Whatever. Knock yourselves out boychiks. Someone needs to present the inconvenient truths and Al Gore has better things to do (like apologizing for rolling over in Florida). [...] 855 24 46_Why did Berkeley paper run anti-Jewish column?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 09:38:35 -0700565_us-ascii I know many think we are all crazy up here in NorCal and would shrug this off. I think it's a sign of the direction things are going, sad as it may be.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/09/01/BAGKPKTI011.DTL

Batel

Batel

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 880 42 22_Open Shut Open Closure12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:37:56 -0400 923 65 21_Ronnie Gilbert memoir16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:00:21 -0400635_us-ascii Ronnie Gilbert, of the Weavers (the only pop group ever to hit the top of the American charts with an Israeli song ("Tzena, Tzena")), gives an unusually frank memoir of her personal odyssey from mainstream Zionism to support for the radical Israeli peace group Women in Black.

http://www.progressive.org/mag_gilbert0206

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 989 71 24_A Baltimore Habonim alum16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:02:31 -0400677_us-ascii RABBIS CHANGING:

A Reform rabbi decides to start a new Conservative shul.

http://www.washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=3747&SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&S=1





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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 1061 116 25_Open-Close-Open-Closure 212_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:22:06 -0400 1178 53 50_Re: Why did Berkeley paper run anti-Jewish column?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 11:35:34 -0700500_iso-8859-1 After reading the entire article linked to in Batel's post, it sounds to me like the Berkeley Daily Planet editor was completely justified in printing the column and that its publication was in accord with the paper's editorial policy.

According to the article: "Putting things out in the light of day gives people who can make a counterargument the chance to respond in a straightforward way," O'Malley said. "Those kinds of things are said behind closed doors all the time." [...] 1232 379 75_Re: The military-industrial-Zionist alliance. Behind the plan to bomb Iran.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 21:42:57 +0200409_US-ASCII The military-industrial-Zionist alliance! A cabal! Zowie!

Actually Phil, not so hard to rebut. The good professor didn't seem to notice that we withdrew from Gaza. He also has nothing to say about the threats of the Iranian government towards Israel, to say nothing of their Holocaust denial. If this is what passes for geopolitics in your neck of the woods, I'll take Condi any old day. [...] 1612 28 25_Re: Ronnie Gilbert memoir12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 15:05:40 -0400 1641 48 64_Salt Lake City, Utah mayor slams 'dishonest, war-mongering' Bush11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 14:09:36 -0600628_us-ascii http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Video_Salt_Lake_City_mayor_leads_0831.html



Whoa! Polygamists against Bush. How many wives does Osama have? Why do the Mormons hate America?

Phil "Monogamous for 41 years" Safier



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 1690 371 75_Re: The military-industrial-Zionist alliance. Behind the plan to bomb Iran.0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET30_Fri, 1 Sep 2006 13:50:15 -0700567_utf-8 It should also be noted that the people of Israel elected Kadima and Labor both parties that support withdrawal (at least to an extent) from the West Bank. Also, I would like to tell you that major defense contractors actually do not like war. War sucks money away from building ever more expensive and complicated weapon systems and funnels it to rifles, ammo, and body armor none of which is made by the big defense contractors. We much prefer the threat, so that the government will keep spending on all these new toys. Also a real war might prove that [...] 2062 20 75_Re: The military-industrial-Zionist alliance. Behind the plan to bomb Iran.12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 01:34:05 -0400 2083 34 42_This news story was sent to you by request0_15_debalev@AOL.COM30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 04:19:50 -0400336_- A news story has been electronically sent to you at the request of the sender listed below. The story originally appeared on post-gazette.com, the web site of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

The sender supplied the following information. A reply to this message will be directed to the e-mail address supplied by the sender. [...] 2118 18 32_Mirror Online - Bomb Al-Jazeera?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 10:04:57 -0400513_us-ascii http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16397937&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=exclusive--bush-plot-to-bomb-his-arab-ally-name_page.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 2137 181 24_Fw: America's Rottweiler12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Sat, 2 Sep 2006 22:20:29 +0300589_iso-8859-1 Re: America's RottweilerIt's with some trepidation after Heidi's knock-em-dead email that I return to Avnery's article, but I must agree with Noam that it is worthwhile to attempt to see through Avnery's Zionistself-denigrating position in order to attend to what may be an important message. Avnery's claim that the Arab world compares the Zionist enterprise to the 'transplantation of an organ into the body of a human being' is not a point to be argued, but rather a reality to be dealt with. If the Arabs see us that way, we need to ask ourselves 'what can we do about [...] 2319 37 51_What do we have to lose? was : America's Rottweiler12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 00:55:31 -0400 2357 73 13_Goofy science13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 20:52:03 +0200600_us-ascii When you read something like this, it's hard to know whether to laugh or cry. Personally, I agree that it's right to worry about Creationism but it turns out that there are enemies of science on the left as well.

http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/articleprint.php?num=209

Jon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 2431 513 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 17:07:07 -0400576_windows-1255 MessageJon,

We should first make sure we are talking about the same event. The complete destruction of the WTC twin towers and of a good part of South Manhattans' financial district on September 11, 2001 is an unprecedented, unique event in human history. There was no event like it before it, there has been nothing even closely resembling it after it, and I think we can also say with a certain measure of confidence, if we take into account everything that has happened since that day, that it is an event that is not very likely to be repeated in [...] 2945 75 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 14:23:42 -0700545_iso-8859-1 --- Yuval Warshai wrote:

> (snip snip) > > Let me clarify this point even a little further: I > don't think there are many studies yet that try to > compare the destruction of the WTC to the atomic > bombs that were dropped by the US over Hiroshima and > Nagasaki at the end of WW II, both in the range and > scope of physical destruction, and on the magnitude > of their social and political impact. I would argue > that even thought he amount of sheer physical > destruction may be very close and [...] 3021 697 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Mon, 4 Sep 2006 00:51:11 +0200377_windows-1255 Yuval,

An interesting hypotheses, but you didn't answer my question.

Of course, as an terrorist attack, 9/11 was unique in the number of casualties and in the scope and spectacular damage inflicted. However, I feel you are being wildly optimistic about something like this not happening again. My impression is that it is just a matter of time. [...] 3719 344 29_article by a HDNA workshopper0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 18:07:43 -0400650_us-ascii Folks:

This link from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette was posted without an explanation. I thought more of you might click on the link if you knew it was a personal reflection by a recently returned workshopper.

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/06245/718384-109.stm

First Person: What I learned in Israel To save the world try one person at a time Saturday, September 02, 2006 This past year I spent nine months in Israel with the youth movement Habonim Dror, living communally in a group of teenagers and educating with the values of equality and socialism. I went to Israel with big questions -- namely, why isn't there [...] 4064 642 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 18:40:12 -0400589_windows-1255 MessageJon,

I will repeat what I have said so far, and what is the only logical certainty that can be obtained from the even so far: a) no one directly or even closely involved in its planning or execution was ever captured alive. And, to this day, no person or organization has directly and irrefutably claimed authorship or responsibility for it. All you have, with whatever reports you want to adduce, is the imputation of deeds on dead people that cannot testify and confirm or deny the imputations. The people who may have committed it are all dead, and they [...] 4707 515 42_Fw: 'Fascism' Frame Set Up by Neocon Press15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:36:58 -0700607_iso-8859-1 I was surprised to see some of the usually more critical contributors to this list accept "Islamic fascism" as an accurate depiction of -- well, I'm not sure what. Thanks to whoever posted a few days ago that list of key components of fascism. (I'm at a different computer, different place for the weekend.) I recall it was sent without comment, but a reading would clearly demonstrate that the right's sudden application of the term to political Islam is utterly misplaced. Below is a companion piece to the definition that clearly describes how the neo-con right has deliberately tried to [...] 5223 330 24_Re: America's Rottweiler15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:56:21 -0700608_iso-8859-1 Re: America's RottweilerThank you, Jessie. Beautifully put. I wanted to respond to Heidi's message earlier but was swamped all week. You enabled me to be more brief. I found Heidi's "analogies," while undebatable, all carefully designed to be that way -- while totally missing Avnery's point. We and the Palestinians can fight forever over whose "return" is more legitimate based on historical rights, how far back one is allowed to go to invoke them and what historical wrongs give rise to what national privileges. Or we can figure out a way to live together in the country and region. And [...] 5554 221 33_Re: article by a HDNA workshopper12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 4 Sep 2006 09:51:07 -0700310_iso-8859-1 Thanks to Ken for posting this with the explanation. I was among those who did not feel inclined to click on a bare link. This article puts into simple, clear, and powerful terms what I strongly believe to be the best road to peace: face-to-face work with individuals and small groups. -Sharon [...] 5776 367 16_smart and stupid11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Mon, 4 Sep 2006 11:30:35 -0600326_us-ascii (Phil...lately e-mails I send to Habonet don't get there...maybe you habonim lefties are censoring me...(joke)... but since it's in response to you, I thought I'd send it direct. WAlso, am sending a second that I got from a friend...just gorgeous pix, which I also sent to Habonet, and didn't seem to get there. [...] 6144 221 25_new lyrics to an old tune0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Mon, 4 Sep 2006 16:06:15 EDT338_ISO-8859-1 First of all, an apology for just sending a link to that article from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. I was having what I call a "bad hand day;" sometimes my MS prevents me from typing.

Anyway, here's something that came in my email today. Those of us "of a certa in age" might remember Country Joe and the Fish...... [...] 6366 54 33_comparing mushrooms and airplanes11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Mon, 4 Sep 2006 22:46:49 -0400576_iso-8859-1 Perhaps I'm the only one left on the planet for whom the world didn't change on 9/11/2001, but I'm stunned by the assertion that the attacks of that day are at all comparable to the destruction wrought by the US atomic attacks on Japan.

Yuval wrote "I jest you not at all. I haven't studied the subject in any serious depth, and I don't know if anyone has so far, but my sense is that the overall scope of destruction and the total number of people killed in South Manhattan's financial district and in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are eminently comparable." [...] 6421 143 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Mon, 4 Sep 2006 21:49:10 -0600499_us-ascii Great post Phil! Thanks for your continued service to Habonet by presenting alternatives to consensus reality. Even though you supported Nader in 2000 and welcomed a Bush victory because it would show the world the perversity of neocons, who could have predicted the dire consequences? In the immortal words of Field Marshall Von Rumsfeld, "Who knew?" History may yet vindicate you if and when the Empire falls due to their hubris and greed. Remember, today's pig is tomorrow's bacon. [...] 6565 125 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 07:44:03 EDT659_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/01/2006 10:25:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

Well, that's an interesting theory, but one which is contradicted by the 9/11 Commission Report. If you like, I can send anyone a copy of the Report off-group.



Dear Jon

Excusing me for not answering sooner. I went east for the Galil reunion. This is more than an interesting theory. Richard Clarke was the Middle East security adviser for both the first Bush administration and for the Clinton administration. Clinton asked Bush to keep him on precisely because Clinton was so worried about Bin Laden. Richard Clarke has [...] 6691 65 36_Re: Goofy science the warr on truth.0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 08:46:40 EDT532_US-ASCII Jon Baum you have a strange approach to truth. Your heroes on the right have made an industry of trashing science. Bush is a supporter of Creationism and he is trying to muzzle the scientists at NASA from warming us about global warming. Then you find some little out there article and give it as an example of enemies on science on the left. Excuse me Jon. You have joined a movement that has declared all out war on science and is funding their lies in a big way. Or maybe we should call it the War on Truth because [...] 6757 93 75_Re: The military-industrial-Zionist alliance. Behind the plan to bomb Iran.0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 09:14:47 EDT571_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/01/2006 12:25:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psafier@ELIXA.COM writes:

Al Gore has better things to do (like apologizing for rolling over in Florida).

Al Gore did not roll in Florida Phil. You and your evil boy Nader put Florida into to Bush column. And indeed that sad truth is that Al Gore is the one explaining the inconvenient truth right now and not you Phil. You brought us Bush and the war in Iraq because you like to be an iconoclast. Maybe its time to be a smart iconoclast. Why do I always get creeped out when [...] 6851 1596 21_Fw: IDF War Criminals11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 08:21:44 -0700481_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Strasser" To: "Klein Steve" ; "Plager Marcia" Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: IDF War Criminals



> Europe has finally conceded to Islam. All that's left is to rename > themselves Eurarabia to make the last concession. Now comes the latest > in its abasement to its fear of Islam. > > Read it and weep: > Al > [...] 8448 24 37_Re: comparing mushrooms and airplanes12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:11:52 -0400332_us-ascii Thank you Noam, for your message.

You may be like me, in that your outlook on life and the world didn't change as a result of 9/11/2001, but you're mistaken when you write that the world didn't change for you (us) on 9/11 -- if only because our government started taking away our liberties in the name of 9/11. [...] 8473 47 7_Reasons16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 10:58:16 -0700366_iso-8859-1 Reasons http://www.10000reasons.org 10,000 Reasons Civilization is Doomed is a community-updated project created by and for people who refuse to put up with the idiocy of our times. Entries range from the general to the very specific, including "People who wear socks and sandals," "Paris Hilton" and "KKK uniforms for children," to name just a few. [...] 8521 43 17_Meet the Bloggers16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 11:00:54 -0700608_iso-8859-1 'Meet the Bloggers' http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/factual/meet_the_bloggers.shtml "Meet the Bloggers," a new BBC Radio program, interviews prominent bloggers about their craft.



--------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 8565 121 30_ABC: Tell the Truth About 9/1117_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 16:05:27 -0500481_us-ascii I am forwarding this message from thinkprogress.org:

On September 10 and September 11, ABC Television is planning to air a "docudrama" called "The Path to 9/11," billed by the writer as "an objective telling of the events of 9/11." In fact, based on our review, the program is full of inaccuracies and partisan misrepresentations. Put simply, the scenes depicted in the ABC movie are not consistent with the finding of the non-partisan 9/11 Commission Report. [...] 8687 45 34_Re: ABC: Tell the Truth About 9/1112_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 14:16:53 -0700411_iso-8859-1 Shawn Eli Barland forwarded: The fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks is an important time for reflection – help us make sure the right-wing doesn't distort 9/11 for partisan advantage.

Yeah, right. -Sharon





--------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [...] 8733 110 34_Re: ABC: Tell the Truth About 9/1117_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 16:24:04 -0500817_ISO-8859-1 Well at least ABC can be influenced if enough people register their objection. Networks do respond to viewer input if there is enough of it.

Sharon Gates wrote:

> */Shawn Eli Barland /* forwarded: > > > The fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks is an important time for > reflection - help us make sure the right-wing doesn't distort 9/11 > for partisan advantage. > > Yeah, right. > -Sharon > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls > > to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > [...] 8844 459 35_Richard Clarke, at War With Himself13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 01:36:46 +0200684_us-ascii Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 Richard Clarke, at War With Himself Viewpoint: On TV, the former counterterrorism official takes a much harder line against Bush than in his book. That undermines a serious conversation about 9/11 By ROMESH RATNESAR

Since his appearance on 60 Minutes last Sunday , Richard Clarke has faced a barrage of attacks from Bush Administration officials over his claims that the White House ignored the threat posed by al-Qaeda before Sept. 11 because of its obsession with Iraq. Dick Cheney told Rush Limbaugh that Clarke wasn't in the loop, frankly, on a lot of this stuff; [...] 9304 135 48_American Options After the Israeli-Hizbollah War16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:46:13 -0700700_iso-8859-1 AMERICAN OPTIONS AFTER THE ISRAELI-HIZBOLLAH WAR

by

Dr. Robert O. Freedman









In the aftermath of the 33 day war between Israel and Hizbollah forces in Lebanon, the United States appears to have only two major options. The first is to continue its current policy of fighting terrorism, maintaining strong support for Israel as a fellow democracy fighting terrorism, and following a "hands-off" policy toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The second alternative is to take the initiative in trying to forge an Israeli-Palestinian settlement so as to weaken the positions of Iran and Syria which are perceived in much of the Middle [...] 9440 59 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Sep 2006 21:50:29 EDT553_US-ASCII Good

Jon seems to know who Richard Clarke is. Of course there will be attempts to take him apart. But there is long pattern of clues saying that Clarke has the gist right. That includes collaborating evidence from Paul O'Neil.

Sam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9500 145 32_Army shuns system to combat RPGs13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 07:58:38 +0200311_us-ascii Not really what we do but it shows the American military beauracracy in action:

Army shuns system to combat RPGs Experts agree it might help save lives, so why isn't it in the field? By Adam Ciralsky, Lisa Myers & the NBC News Investigative Unit

Updated: 10:16 p.m. ET Sept. 5, 2006 [...] 9646 241 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 08:30:24 EDT629_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/05/2006 6:38:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 Richard Clarke, at War With Himself Viewpoint: On TV, the former counterterrorism official takes a much harder line against Bush than in his book. That undermines a serious conversation about 9/11 By ROMESH RATNESAR

Jon, let us understand the seriousness of who Richard Clarke was and what he said. Mr. Clarke was the advisor on security for the Middle East. He has written a whole book about the Bush White House. He was before the Bush years a respected expert who worked for both [...] 9888 215 30_Fwd: Open-Close-Open-Closure 212_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:44:59 +0200 10104 446 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 16:20:20 +0200558_us-ascii Sorry Sam, you're not going to convince me, just as I'm not going to convince you. What ever Paul O'Neil had to say about the Bush administration about what happened pre-9/11 is not relevant to the discussion. We weren't talking about the invasion of Iraq. I simply pointed out - as is verified by the 9/11 Report - that both administrations could have done more to prevent it. As the Report makes clear, by the time Bush was inaugurated, the attack was only 8 months away and well advanced. Even if everything Clarke had to say was true - and [...] 10551 84 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 09:27:21 EDT637_US-ASCII

In a message dated 09/06/2006 9:21:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

Sorry Sam, you're not going to convince me, just as I'm not going to convince you. What ever Paul O'Neil had to say about the Bush administration about what happened pre-9/11 is not relevant to the discussion.



Bingo

All is irrelevantly except for blind faith to loser Bush at whatever cost to our interests. Bush decided on Iraq from day one and he did not weigh the options. The evidence is compelling. He still makes faith based decisions. Case closed. Will Baum be the last sane person to [...] 10636 80 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 09:45:31 EDT589_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/06/2006 9:21:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

Even if everything Clarke had to say was true - and it's now fairly clear that it wasn't - the attacks were practically inevitable, given the listless methods of the FBI, CIA, INS, and FAA at the time.

But we know now that Bush has done every thing he can to make the Federal Government more listless and less professional. This is part of his philosophy. Government is the problem not the solution. Yes Brownie is doing a heck of a job and so is Julie Meyers. Don't [...] 10717 293 24_Please vote for my video11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 17:50:46 +0000526_windows-1252 I know that this isn't what Habonet is used for, but...I need all the help I can get. I entered a contest online with a video I made and it's been selected as a finalist. If I get the most votes, I win $500. So please help me make that happen! To vote, you have to register with the website (don't worry, they don't spam) and send them an email voting for mine. I have pasted the following email below that explains how to do it. READ IT CAREFULLY-- it's not a matter of clicking a "rate this video" button. [...] 11011 2608 37_[QUAR] Fwd: Israel Political Cartoons0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Sep 2006 14:38:54 EDT380_US-ASCII



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 13620 69 9_bernstein13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 00:16:01 EDT477_US-ASCII Did anybody see American Masters on PBS tonight, a two-hour biography of Leonard Bernstein? What an amazing human being. Anyway, pertinent to people interested in Israel, he came to conduct the newly named Israel Philharmonic Orchestra during the 1948 war. Two days after the capture of Be'erSheva, he brought the orchestra to play there. There were 5,000 Israeli soldiers -- pretty much everybody in uniform in that region. The film of it was incredibly moving. [...] 13690 61 13_Re: bernstein19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 02:49:33 -0400 13752 108 41_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: Israel Political Cartoons15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 00:19:59 -0700585_iso-8859-1 And I thought political cartoonists were supposed to provoke us by challenging the conventional wisdom. Silly me. David

----- Original Message ----- From: JLCAA@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: [QUAR] Fwd: Israel Political Cartoons







------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. [...] 13861 688 44_Fw: Jewish girl beaten on London bus Details11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:49:37 -0700595_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Strasser" To: "Klein Steve" ; "Plager Marcia" Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 7:08 AM Subject: Re: Jewish girl beaten on London bus Details



> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 14550 163 41_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: Israel Political Cartoons11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 11:59:24 -0700498_iso-8859-1 Huh? ----- Original Message ----- From: David L. Mandel To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 12:19 AM Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: Israel Political Cartoons



And I thought political cartoonists were supposed to provoke us by challenging the conventional wisdom. Silly me. David

----- Original Message ----- From: JLCAA@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: [QUAR] Fwd: Israel Political Cartoons [...] 14714 39 34_Fw: Tatiana Menaker's last article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 14:34:03 -0700428_iso-8859-1 Interesting stuff all the way down the page, if you have the time.

The first article, about the Rosenbergs and their son, is not recommended for those that regularly eschew Steve Klein material.

Steve







> Hi guys > Here is my last article: > http://www.jrtelegraph.com/ > > > Tatiana Menaker > 1887 38 Ave. > San Francsico, CA 94122 > 415-566-6308 > Fax.415-566-6131 > [...] 14754 38 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself13_Joel Winograd15_mail@JELACO.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 17:09:10 -0500 14793 223 53_A great miracle happened here by Rabbi Allison Conyer13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:02:16 -0400699_WINDOWS-1252 *This is a refreshing article and perhaps we can view the conflict that occasionally arises on Habonet, in the same light.* ** *Any Comments?* ** *Moshe Sheskin* *Kibbutz Hulda*





*A Great Miracle Happened Here -Rabbi Allison Conyer*

Executive Director of Santa Barbara Hillel.(previously rabbi North Shore Temple Emanuel Sydney)









Wrong season, you might be thinking, but it's true. I managed to accomplish here in nearly 8 months what I tried to do in nearly 8 years in Sydney. I invited the entire religious and educational leadership of Jewish Santa Barbara to our home to learn together before the Yamim Noraim [...] 15017 136 57_Re: A great miracle happened here by Rabbi Allison Conyer11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:21:44 -0400605_windows-1252 Calling a congregation recon/renewal and "semi Jewish" in the same breathe is hardly a way to make friends and create unity! What a schmuck. That characterization undoes everything else he tried to do.

(BTW, there is no Reconstructionist affiliated congregation in Santa Barbara There is also no affiliated Jewish Renewal congregation in Santa Barbara. I don't know why he identified a congregation that way if it is not affiliated with either movement. There are 107 Reconstructionist congregations and 38 Renewal congregations and lots in California but not in Santa Barbara..) [...] 15154 45 50_Click here to fight...../ Bradley Burston/ Haaretz16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 18:41:18 -0700441_iso-8859-1 From Bradley Burston. Here is a quip from his latest article.

For the first time ever, Arabs and Jews separated for decades by insurmountable barriers now have the unique opportunity to communicate with one another. In theory, they now have the means to make their feelings, their pain, their humanity known to one another. In theory, the virtual no man's land of cyberspace affords a unique chance for common ground. [...] 15200 149 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 19:47:52 -0600685_us-ascii Thanks for the link Joel. Like many previous commissions that served to shield the guilty from exposure (the Kennedy assassination fiasco springs to mind), this latest example demonstrates the near total corruption of our system of government.

For more grist for the mill see: Five Years After and We Still Don't Know By Paul Craig Roberts The reason so many people doubt the 9/11 story is not because they have psychological needs for conspiracies, but because the 9/11 story is not believable. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14874.htm Which is the grandest conspiracy theory? The interpretation of 9/11 as an orchestrated casus belli to justify [...] 15350 66 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 21:57:35 -0400300_windows-1252 Paul Craig Roberts is the kook who gave us supply side economics, which reflects his lack of judgment, analysis and critical thinking ability in the area in which he received his PhD. He is not an expert in engineering and demolitions so why would his judgment be any better there? [...] 15417 81 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:22:56 -0600633_us-ascii Judy,

Did you read his article? Regardless of his views on economics, he accurately summarizes the problems with the official 9/11 scenario. These questions deserve real answers and not the blanket dismissals of the shill media.

Phil



At 09:57 PM 9/7/2006 -0400, Judy Gelman wrote: >Paul Craig Roberts is the kook who gave us supply side economics, which >reflects his lack of judgment, analysis and critical thinking ability in >the area in which he received his PhD. He is not an expert in engineering >and demolitions so why would his judgment be any better there? > >Judy Gelman > >Phil [...] 15499 44 38_Re: Fw: Tatiana Menaker's last article11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 20:53:05 -0600601_us-ascii Another example of bad writing and confused thinking that I have come to expect from that side of the political spectrum. Pass the Stoly!

Phil

At 02:34 PM 9/7/2006 -0700, Steve Klein wrote: >Interesting stuff all the way down the page, if you have the time. > >The first article, about the Rosenbergs and their son, is not recommended >for those that regularly eschew Steve Klein material. > >Steve > > > > >>Hi guys >>Here is my last article: >>http://www.jrtelegraph.com/ >> >> >>Tatiana Menaker >>1887 38 Ave. >>San Francsico, CA 94122 >>415-566-6308 >>Fax.415-566-6131 [...] 15544 104 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 7 Sep 2006 23:26:36 -0400567_ISO-8859-1 I think this conspiracy theory is full of crap and I have said why many times before. Judy

Phil Safier wrote:

> Judy, > > Did you read his article? Regardless of his views on economics, he > accurately summarizes the problems with the official 9/11 scenario. > These questions deserve real answers and not the blanket dismissals of > the shill media. > > Phil > > > At 09:57 PM 9/7/2006 -0400, Judy Gelman wrote: > >> Paul Craig Roberts is the kook who gave us supply side economics, >> which reflects his lack of judgment, analysis and [...] 15649 29 71_Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (Was: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 00:04:09 -0400522_us-ascii A conspiracy theorist debunks the 9/11 conspiracy theories:

"9/11 Conspiracy Theorists Echo Early Bin Laden Talking Points" by Richard Blake

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/50427/911_conspiracy_theorists_echo_early.html

http://tinyurl.com/m73y2

When I clicked on the link using Internet Explorer, I had trouble opening the article. (But I didn't have any problems with Firefox.) If you get an error, search for the words Conspiracy Theorists and you'll find the article. [...] 15679 279 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:21:03 +0200677_us-ascii See:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1 &c=y

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Phil Safier Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:48 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself



Thanks for the link Joel. Like many previous commissions that served to shield the guilty from exposure (the Kennedy assassination fiasco springs to mind), this latest example demonstrates the near total corruption of our system of government. [...] 15959 32 57_Re: A great miracle happened here by Rabbi Allison Conyer11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:35:44 -0400366_Windows-1252 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" To: Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 9:21 PM Subject: Re: A great miracle happened here by Rabbi Allison Conyer



> Calling a congregation recon/renewal and "semi Jewish" in the same > breathe is hardly a way to make friends and create unity! [...] 15992 49 56_Don't put your faith in rabbis/ Bradely Burston/ Haaretz16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 05:06:00 -0700365_iso-8859-1 Another Friday read for me at least.

Don't put your faith in rabbis By Bradley Burston When I was small, it occurred to me that I had a problem with Judaism. God was not the problem, nor the Torah. I believed very strongly in God. I believed in His Book. I believed that the stories were true, the teachings wise far beyond my understanding. [...] 16042 49 71_Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (Was: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself)11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 06:27:55 -0600742_us-ascii Without going into detail, Blake's arguments only weakly refute the case against the government's theories. He doesn't address Building 7, the lack of evidence at the Pentagon of a passenger jet crash, etc.

Phil



At 12:04 AM 9/8/2006 -0400, David Fleiss wrote: >A conspiracy theorist debunks the 9/11 conspiracy theories: > >"9/11 Conspiracy Theorists Echo Early Bin Laden Talking Points" by Richard >Blake > >http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/50427/911_conspiracy_theorists_echo_early.html > >http://tinyurl.com/m73y2 > >When I clicked on the link using Internet Explorer, I had trouble opening >the article. (But I didn't have any problems with Firefox.) If you get an >error, search for the words [...] 16092 219 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 06:34:25 -06001041_us-ascii Debunking the Popular Mechanics arguments: http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/ http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/august2006/100806popularmechanics.htm http://911review.com/pm/markup/index.html

At 10:21 AM 9/8/2006 +0200, Jonathan Baum wrote: >See: > >http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1&c=y >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Phil Safier >Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:48 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself > >Thanks for the link Joel. Like many previous commissions that served to >shield the guilty from exposure (the Kennedy assassination fiasco springs >to mind), this latest example demonstrates the near total corruption of >our system of government. > >For more grist for the mill see: >Five Years After [...] 16312 52 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 07:00:50 -0700355_iso-8859-1 The problem with the conspiracy theory which shows that the US government was behind 9/11, like almost all other conspiracy theories of that magnitude like the JFK ones, is that if its true, if the US government could have orchestrated such a grand scheme then why are the so inept when it comes to actually invading Afghanastan and Iraq? [...] 16365 29 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 08:42:09 -0600563_us-ascii This argument assumes that the situation which appears chaotic and out of control does not profit those in power. Cui bono?

Phil



At 07:00 AM 9/8/2006 -0700, richard smith wrote: > The problem with the conspiracy theory which shows that the US > government was behind 9/11, like almost all other conspiracy theories of > that magnitude like the JFK ones, is that if its true, if the US > government could have orchestrated such a grand scheme then why are the > so inept when it comes to actually invading Afghanastan and Iraq? [...] 16395 66 38_Re: Fw: Tatiana Menaker's last article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:29:09 -0700648_iso-8859-1 Phil

I subtly hinted it would not be for you.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Safier" To: Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Tatiana Menaker's last article



> Another example of bad writing and confused thinking that I have come to > expect from that side of the political spectrum. Pass the Stoly! > > Phil > > At 02:34 PM 9/7/2006 -0700, Steve Klein wrote: >>Interesting stuff all the way down the page, if you have the time. >> >>The first article, about the Rosenbergs and their son, is not recommended [...] 16462 817 12_Fw: Red Dawn11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:45:13 -0700425_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Strasser" To: "Klein Steve" ; "Plager Marcia" Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 7:52 PM Subject: Red Dawn



>I came across this heartrending, poignant blog yesterday. It should go > into the annals of literature on warfare, like "All Quiet on the > Western Front." > > Al > [...] 17280 1019 40_Fw: "Nature" praising Mr. Ahmadinejad II11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 09:48:55 -0700521_iso-8859-1 For your continued "enjoyment"

Steve





Subject: "Nature" Magazine praising Mr. Ahmadinejad II



One of the items that caught my eye was the comments of a female scientist who thought that having to don mandated clothing was acceptable because Iran had such openness in its approach to scientific research. She compared them to the US where, according to her, research on embryonic stem cells is restricted and where the acceptance of Darwinism is even questioned. [...] 18300 140 44_Re: Fw: "Nature" praising Mr. Ahmadinejad II12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:13:38 -0700448_iso-8859-1 Normally, I don't bother following links that Steve posts, but I checked this one. The link is to a brief article about police stopping women in Teheran and giving them warnings that they are improperly veiled. There is no way, from the e-mail that Steve forwarded, to check on what the Nature article itself actually says. It becomes another case of "somebody said something bad (trust me), so let's all send e-mail and complain." [...] 18441 115 18_Muslim World Today11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:32:07 -0700306_iso-8859-1 Probably one of the most informative and important magazines coming into our home is the "MUSLIM WORLD TODAY", which I have written about before. The editor is a progressive Muslim whom I have had the honor to hear in person and the articles are varied, with writers from around the world. [...] 18557 730 44_Re: Fw: "Nature" praising Mr. Ahmadinejad II11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:47:46 -0700563_iso-8859-1 Sharon

Once again you are misquoting and misconstruing me, and I don't like to be misconstrued! (Just kidding; it was too good to pass up). But NOWHERE and NOWHEN did I ever say I write or forward articles or opinions "to foster intelligent discussion of issues". I would hope that would or could happen, but my experience with Habonet is that often does not happen. Sometimes it certainly does, but that gives me no more pleasure than the articles or opinions that simply give me pause and a reason to exclaim, "Well, THAT'S interesting!" [...] 19288 26 71_Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (Was: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:10:07 -0400307_us-ascii > Without going into detail, Blake's arguments only weakly refute the > case against the government's theories. He doesn't address > Building 7, the lack of evidence at the Pentagon of a passenger jet > crash, etc.

The explanation for 7 WTC can be summed up in two words: Rudy's Folly. [...] 19315 167 20_Stupid - but popular13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 21:26:01 +0200604_us-ascii These theories are 'plane stupid' - but popular At first, conspiracy-mongering about 9/11 was the preserve of isolated fantasists. Now, five years later, it is positively in vogue. Emily Hill



As soon as there is a new flashpoint spark in the war on terror, someone somewhere will claim that said flashpoint was an 'inside job' and it's all a big conspiracy. The more 9/11 recedes into history, the more speculation there is about what happened on that day. After the initial shock and awe of the attacks on New York and Washington, there was a handful of websites and cranky [...] 19483 82 38_Re: Fw: Tatiana Menaker's last article11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:27:49 -0600361_us-ascii And I deeply appreciate the warning, Steve. Very considerate and kind of you. Her SF address compelled me to have a looksee.

They'll never stop killing the Rosenbergs, will they? But I guess that's the price we pay for having a secure homeland. Thank G_d for those of you on the right protecting us from the evildoers as well as ourselves. [...] 19566 62 71_Re: 9/11 Conspiracy Theories (Was: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself)11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:51:01 -0600631_us-ascii David,

See http://www.wtc7.net/pullit.html for more on WTC 7.

How does the term "Rudy's Folly" explain the freefall collapse of a building that suffered small fires? The owner, Silverstein, said that NYFD "pulled" it. Does this mean that they rigged it with explosives during the fire???

"At the time of its destruction, it exclusively housed government agencies and financial institutions. It contained offices of the IRS, Secret Service, and SEC. One of the most interesting tenants was then-Mayor Giuliani's Office of Emergency Management, and its emergency command center on the 23rd floor." [...] 19629 45 24_Re: Stupid - but popular11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 14:51:17 -0400288_ISO-8859-1 Where did this garbage come from that there is no evidence of a passenger plane at the Pentagon? It was there hanging part way out of the building, charred to a crisp, and clearly visible to hundreds of thousands of people traveling daily on the western spur of Rt I-395. [...] 19675 183 24_Re: Stupid - but popular11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:56:30 -0600634_us-ascii Once again, no refutation of the substantive questions about the official explanations, just ridicule, sarcasm, and knocking down straw men. No call for a real inquiry. This convinces you to dismiss the questions? And this passes for critical thinking skills? Give me a personal break.

Phil

At 09:26 PM 9/8/2006 +0200, Jonathan Baum wrote: >These theories are 'plane stupid' - but popular >At first, conspiracy-mongering about 9/11 was the preserve of isolated >fantasists. Now, five years later, it is positively in vogue. >Emily Hill > > >As soon as there is a new flashpoint spark in the war on terror, [...] 19859 142 24_Re: Stupid - but popular11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 19:00:09 +0000396_us-ascii I really don't know what to believe about 9/11. Ever see "Loose Change?" It shows the tape of "Bin Laden" claiming responsibility for the attack. But LOOK at him! It is NOT Bin Ladin! I really have to wonder what is up with that.

----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Gelman Date: Friday, September 8, 2006 2:58 pm Subject: Re: Stupid - but popular To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 20002 28 23_Attachments to Messages12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 15:26:44 -0400431_us-ascii Steve,

Despite our disagreements, I always read the messages you forward to the list. (I don't mean to single you out. I read the messages that everybody forwards.)

But recently, your forwarded messages have been in the form of attachments. As a rule, I don't open attachments that are attached to e-mail messages from mailing lists. I have been told that they are often the source of computer viruses. [...] 20031 50 24_Re: Stupid - but popular13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 17:23:55 EDT342_US-ASCII I suspect that our collective suspiciousness about elites, and especially the federal government, has something to do with the loss of our political innocence that is one of the natural sequela of Watergate. Once it was established that the president was indeed a "crook," it became much more difficult to trust our government. [...] 20082 46 22_Someone to fight with.16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Sep 2006 18:27:43 -0700427_iso-8859-1 An interesting point of view from an Arab in Jerusalem.

And what else do you remember hajj? I remember the country, before you Jews came here, he responded. And how was it? I asked. It was terrible, said the old man, there was no one to fight with. We would only fight amongst ourselves, it was awful. Since you came here we have someone to fight with, and it has become an interesting place to live in. [...] 20129 100 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 08:55:00 EDT457_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/08/2006 10:02:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM writes:

The problem with the conspiracy theory which shows that the US government was behind 9/11, like almost all other conspiracy theories of that magnitude like the JFK ones, is that if its true, if the US government could have orchestrated such a grand scheme then why are the so inept when it comes to actually invading Afghanastan and Iraq? [...] 20230 141 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 09:58:50 -0400581_iso-8859-1 >From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 8:55 AM Subject: Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself



... They are so inept at invading Afghanistan and Iraq because a) there was no conspiracy and b) they are led by a moral and strategic midget named Bush for whom Jon Baum is a cheerleader. One always needs to wonder why people here in Habonim root for a loser whose values are the polar opposites of those we grew up with in Habonim. I do not pretend to know the answer but I do know this. The answer to that [...] 20372 139 39_Re: Richard Clarke, at War With Himself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 12:57:20 EDT356_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/09/2006 10:00:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:

It is time to face the fact that there is no single set of values held by the members of this list, all of whom "grew up in Habonim".



One does not walk in to a shul selling pork unless you ave a compelling reason to do so. [...] 20512 249 28_Re: Sam, at War With Himself11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:22:35 -0400460_iso-8859-1 Sam,

I'll say it again - I don't believe there was ever, nor will there ever be, unanimity with regard to what "our values" are. For example, within the Mosh eizor contingent I was almost alone in my opposition to the merge with Dror over the issue of settlement beyond the green line. Were they selling pork? That sounds like a swift boat type slam to me. I think you should find another release for your anger and share ideas instead. [...] 20762 121 28_Re: Sam, at War With Himself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 13:32:40 EDT557_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/09/2006 1:23:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:



I'll say it again - I don't believe there was ever, nor will there ever be, unanimity with regard to what "our values" are. For example, within the Mosh eizor contingent I was almost alone in my opposition to the merge with Dror over the issue of settlement beyond the green line. Were they selling pork? That sounds like a swift boat type slam to me. I think you should find another release for your anger and share ideas instead. [...] 20884 210 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 14:48:38 -0500619_us-ascii */I don't believe there was ever, nor will there ever be, unanimity with regard to what "our values" are/*. The Habonim that I grew up in was unquestionably a leftist socialist labor organization totally committed to the Kibbutz movement. We demonstrated our solidarity with Cesar Chavez and The United Farm Workers, took stands in favor of the civil rights movement, opposed the Viet Nam War and generally fought for the rights of the underprivileged and downtrodden. We were taught - anyone remember kupa?- to share. Nothing could be further from our roots in Habonim than supporting George W. Bush and [...] 21095 54 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:15:39 EDT499_US-ASCII I am sure that I am much older than Shawn, but he seems to be talkin about the Habonim that I remember. We were involved in what we thought was a way to "make a better world for our children and grandchildren." Unfortunately that has not happened and many of the peole who grew up in Habonim appear to have changed their value system. I am not saying that this is wrong. It may be alright for them but it is not alright for me. I am still an idealist and try to do as much as I can to [...] 21150 82 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:54:22 EDT326_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/09/2006 5:16:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, SMLBOV@AOL.COM writes:

I am still an idealist and try to do as much as I can to prove it. I could never support the Bush administration and could never see myself voting Republican...but then I supported Henry Wallace in 1948. Sylvia Lask [...] 21233 217 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 17:57:22 -0400665_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Shawn Eli Barland To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: Re: Habonim, at War With Itself



I don't believe there was ever, nor will there ever be, unanimity with regard to what "our values" are. The Habonim that I grew up in was unquestionably a leftist socialist labor organization totally committed to the Kibbutz movement. We demonstrated our solidarity with Cesar Chavez and The United Farm Workers, took stands in favor of the civil rights movement, opposed the Viet Nam War and generally fought for the rights of the underprivileged and downtrodden. [...] 21451 119 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:13:20 EDT559_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/09/2006 5:58:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:



Sam - I'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned about the things the Bush administration is doing. On the contrary, we need to fight them at every turn. But simply labeling them and anyone who supported anything they ever did as evil is not productive and is in fact acting much as they do. At the risk of sounding like John Kerrey (who I went down to Florida to work for on election day 2004), I'll say that I think we can do better. [...] 21571 40 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:21:58 -0400603_ISO-8859-1 Yes, Habonim's official values were clear--It was and is the leftist socialist labor Zionist youth movement ..

But within Habonim and within machanot, there was always a range of opinions. When I was a chanicha, there was Dov Liberman on the right and Carl Goldman on the left on almost every issue. There were people who were more and less critical of Israel's occupation policy and more and less concerned about keeping territory to guarantee security. . There were people who were more and less opposed to the Viet Nam War--most people avoided the draft by going to school and [...] 21612 51 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 19:56:39 EDT529_US-ASCII Judy, I don't know you and at times have not always agreed with what you hve written, but this last statement of yours hits the nail on the head. However, I feel that our years in Habonim helped us develope into the people we are today and as long as we can live with what we believe in.......it's OK. People change and grow up and become a little afraid of the future. In your teens, you thuink you are here forever....sadly as we grow older, we learn that is far from the truth. Keep writing Judy, you have a lot [...] 21664 180 18_Pan Muslim Fiction16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:18:31 -0700712_iso-8859-1 Canadian Institute for Jewish Research Prof. Frederick Krantz, Director P.O. Box 175, Station H Montreal, Quebec H3G 2K7 E-Mail: cijradmin@isranet.org Internet: http://www.isranet.org/



PAN-MUSLIM FICTION Efraim Karsh New York Sun, August 29, 2006

In discussions of the contemporary Middle East, few arguments have resonated more widely, or among a more diverse set of observers, than the claim that the Palestinian-Israeli conflict constitutes the source of all evil and that its resolution will lead to regional peace and stability. No sooner had the guns fallen silent on the Israel-Lebanon border than Prime Minister Tony Blair of Britain, fresh from his summer vacation [...] 21845 107 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 21:29:26 -0400611_iso-8859-1 Sam - read again what I wrote - "I'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned about the things the Bush administration is doing. On the contrary, we need to fight them at every turn." That includes their subversion of science and opposition to measures to combat global warming. Also their giveaways to the medical insurance/pharma companies. And just about everything else. I never said not to. I just don't see how alienating people on habonet by labeling them as Bushies rather than debating the issues on the merits, or attacking people who stand with you as insufficiently belligerent is going [...] 21953 264 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 18:35:34 -0700373_US-ASCII As a follow up or a tangent to this discussion, I would like to suggest that the Habonim site get checked out on what today's youth group is doing. As a parent of the Bay Area Rosh Ken (with close to 30 members) and a son who in 4th grade passed out words to Union Maid to be sung during the teachers' were strike, I can say we have something to be proud of. [...] 22218 47 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 21:45:44 EDT390_US-ASCII Your message about passing out the words to"Union Maid really struck at my heart. There is hope for our youth and I am grateful for the years I spent in Habonim and learned all the songs etc. There are times when I even hum them to myself. My grandson (age six and a half is a dead head and I hate it) howeverm he has gone to see Peter, Paul & Mary so all is not lost. Sylvia [...] 22266 61 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 23:20:16 -0400312_ISO-8859-1 On a back to school clothes shopping trip to the mall, my 14 y.o son pulled me away from a formerly favorite store, telling me "I can't shop there. The clothes are made with slave labor". Of course the store he wanted to shop at probably also has slave labor clothes, but the thought does count! [...] 22328 108 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Sep 2006 23:34:11 EDT642_US-ASCII

In a message dated 09/09/2006 9:30:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:

Sam - read again what I wrote - "I'm not saying we shouldn't be concerned about the things the Bush administration is doing. On the contrary, we need to fight them at every turn." That includes their subversion of science and opposition to measures to combat global warming. Also their giveaways to the medical insurance/pharma companies. And just about everything else. I never said not to. I just don't see how alienating people on habonet by labeling them as Bushies rather than debating the issues on the merits, [...] 22437 158 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:05:05 +0200469_us-ascii



No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 08/09/2006

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 22596 188 31_Re: Habonim, at War With Itself0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 07:46:17 EDT624_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/10/2006 5:05:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL writes:

Sorry, Sam. the fact that I think about and write about terror has nothing to do with Bush. I stay away from the proBush/antiBush debate because in a reversal of what we learned in Habonim, I try to make statements about stuff I know about. Imagine. Heidi (another betrayer of Habonim ideology) The discussion of terror is a legitimate discussion to the extent that it is not used to exclude other concerns. To a certain extent this has not happened here. People are still concerned about social conditions [...] 22785 141 17_Religious Freedom16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 08:35:27 -0400566_us-ascii I don't know how many lurking hereabouts have heard about the scandal of coercive religous persecution at the US Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. Colorado Springs is not only the site of the Academy, but also houses the national headquarters offices of a number of Christian evangelical organizations, most notably the group "Focus on the Family." These groups, because they are evangelical, see themselves as theologically obligated to proselytize. The Air Force Academy is an obvious source of potential converts. And therein lies the problem. [...] 22927 79 44_Re: Fw: "Nature" praising Mr. Ahmadinejad II0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 11:19:42 EDT484_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/08/2006 1:15:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:

If scientists in Iran enjoy more freedom in stem cell research than scientists in the US, then that seems like something important to say. The fact that Iran is not a democratic paradise does not change the fact that they are, in some ways, more free than we in the US. Note that I said "in some ways" -- not in all ways, and, no, I would not like to live there. [...] 23007 294 20_Waiting for Al Qaeda11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:03:43 -0400546_iso-8859-1 This guy often comes from the right side of the political spectrum, but in this case he expresses what I was trying to say the other day about my objections to the idea that the attacks on Sept 11, 2001 "changed everything". Certainly, as David pointed out, if Bush has his way, then the world, or at least the USA, will indeed be changed forever, but I think it is all overblown. That isn't to say that there aren't "bad guys" out there, but simply that they aren't hiding under every bed, and aren't a reason to abandon our way [...] 23302 111 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:18:01 -0400609_iso-8859-1 Sorry, the URL is http://select.nytimes.com/2006/09/09/opinion/09tierney.html - requires Times Select subscription to view it there though. ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 10:03 PM Subject: Waiting for Al Qaeda



... September 9, 2006 Op-Ed Columnist Waiting for Al Qaeda By JOHN TIERNEY John Mueller has an awkward question for those of us in the terrorism industry, which is his term for the journalists, politicians, bureaucrats and assorted "risk entrepreneurs" who have alarmed America about terrorism. [...] 23414 159 47_Advocating Complacency as a Response to Terror.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 10 Sep 2006 23:11:32 -0700360_iso-8859-1 Recently on Habonet, an idea was sent up the flagpole that the alerts, warnings and alarms about post-9/11 terrorism in the US were created as a new industry; a "risk entrepeneurship", if you will, and that our trepidations are overblown. I think there was a cute comparison to the risks of taking baths. I couldn't make this up, I assure you. [...] 23574 27 13_Re: bernstein12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:39:57 +0200 23602 222 13_Re: bernstein13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:09:23 +0200541_us-ascii Amnon, here's what you missed:

http://rs6.loc.gov/ammem/lbhtml/images/48a081_r.jpg

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadari Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:40 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: bernstein









Steve,

A. I couldn't get there because I was in Bet Ha'nun (ugh) on the other side of the Negev. B. We didn't have uniforms. C. We don't get PBS. Thanks for the memories. [...] 23825 46 26_Israelity- Israeli website16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 05:33:54 -0700426_iso-8859-1 http://www.israelity.com/

About Israelity

The reality of daily life in Israel isn't only politics and violence: it is commerce and research; art and culture; music and dance; community and family. Much of the world and the media views Israel through conflict-focused lenses. ISRAELITY spotlights Israelis sharing their thoughts and experiences, their observations and their hopes for the future. [...] 23872 126 25_911 - A Modern Fairy Tale11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 08:50:53 -0600534_us-ascii 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale

By Douglas Herman 9-6-6

http://www.rense.com/general73/911a.htm

Once upon a time in America, the land of opportunity, a group of foreign guys at a Florida strip club said: "Let's get Korans and boxcutters and hijack airplanes and crash them into skyscrapers."

And so they did.

They bought flight manuals and lapdances, Korans and double martinis. They took flight lessons and bad photos. But most of all they flew badly and partied and flunked flight school. [...] 23999 321 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:18:29 -0600629_iso-8859-1 Noam,

This qualifies you for inclusion in the terrorism deniers list. Keep it up and you'll become known as a complacent appeaser of fascism like Neville Chamberlain who ended up starring in cheesy TV melodramas under the nom de guerre Richard.

You have been warned.

Phil



At 10:03 PM 9/10/2006 -0400, Noam Stopak wrote: >This guy often comes from the right side of the political spectrum, but in >this case he expresses what I was trying to say the other day about my >objections to the idea that the attacks on Sept 11, 2001 "changed >everything". Certainly, as David pointed [...] 24321 28 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:26:56 -0400305_ISO-8859-1 Wow, Phil, lots of food for thought there. I have a couple questions.

Can you explain the bit about Israeli security at Logan Airport? My geography seems to be off.

Also, what's the deal on hijackers who were alive the next day - that's a new one to me. How did I miss that? [...] 24350 46 51_Re: Advocating Complacency as a Response to Terror.28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 11:28:31 -0400487_ISO-8859-1 Steve,

Why not make your case without distorting the views that others present here?

There is a great deal of difference between asserting that the Bush administration response to the 9/11/01 attacks is overblown, and advocating complacency or stating that doing nothing is better than doing something. BTW - just because Bush is doing something doesn't mean he is doing the right things, nor does it mean that the things he is doing are worthy of support. [...] 24397 59 12_(no subject)11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:03:13 EDT513_US-ASCII I just returned home from a very moving memorial service held at the hospital where I serve on the Board. Anyone who thinks 9-11 hasn't changed our lives is living in a dream world. I think everytime one us travels or even thinks of traveling, we have this little fear in us. I travel a lot I know my feelings sare different then they were before 9/11. I miss the New York Skyline as I knew it. My hope is that somehow this world we live in will find a way to be a safer place for my grandchild and [...] 24457 26 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:36:36 -0400523_us-ascii Phil,

When somebody starts citing articles at rense.com, I begin to wonder about her/his sanity.

What's next? whatreallyhappened.com? thejewsdidit.com?

Please come back to reality.

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 24484 80 51_Re: Advocating Complacency as a Response to Terror.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:46:23 -0700366_iso-8859-1 Noam

Since you chose to address me directly, I will reply to you. There is nothing in what you just wrote that I could disagree with- with one possible exception. It doesn't help me understand anything more than I knew. When people write sanely and with perspective (as you just did), the dialogue is exponentially easier and much more civil. [...] 24565 50 39_Sept. 11, the day that coexistence died16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:44:37 -0700324_iso-8859-1 It may be a drop in an ocean of hatred, but it is time to buck the prevailing compulsion to blame, vilify, and incite hatred against the other people in this place, none of whom are planning just to leave this area to their present enemies. It is time to see if there is any danger of dialogue breaking out. [...] 24616 370 31_Bad Taste and Really Bad Timing11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 09:57:11 -0700409_iso-8859-1 While or nation mourns (well, most of us, anyway), a congratulatory message to the terrorists goes blithely out over the cyber-waves. (See below).

WHAT INCREDIBLY BAD TIMING; WHAT INCREDIBLY BAD TASTE.

Steve

PS The bad guys were just as surprised as we were that the buildings melted. Don't give them that!









911 - A Modern Fairy Tale [...] 24987 32 43_Re: Sept. 11, the day that coexistence died12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:13:49 -0400331_us-ascii Thank you so much, Roz, for posting that article. If you hadn't, I would have passed it by based on its title.

I'm glad to read that I'm not the only person (beside Uri Avnery) who still believes in coexistence. Even here on Habonet, it often feels that way.

David

From Bradley Burston's column: [...] 25020 449 35_Re: Bad Taste and Really Bad Timing13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:18:36 +0200425_us-ascii Steve, when you're in a less somber mood, go to this site and have a look around. It's hysterical. Check out the books for sale. The whole thing is beyond parody.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Klein Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:57 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Bad Taste and Really Bad Timing [...] 25470 18 4_test19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:21:23 -0500378_ISO-8859-1 test

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 25489 35 32_together we can change the world19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:24:23 -0500471_ISO-8859-1 Together we can change the world. Our kids sing it at camp, and they truly believe as we did that it is possible. This is also the theme of Moshava's first-ever capital campaign kicking off this fall. I hope you will be able to participate in some way.

A dinner November 19 in Baltimore will honor Rachel and Rick Glaser who have given 25 years of dedication and dugma to both chanichim and madrichim. That's continuity unheard of in our machanot. [...] 25525 24 35_Re: Bad Taste and Really Bad Timing12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 13:41:45 -0400555_us-ascii > Steve, when you're in a less somber mood, go to this site and have > a look around. It's hysterical. Check out the books for sale. The whole > thing is beyond parody.

If you think rense.com is fun, try whatreallyhappened.com

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 25550 56 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:12:31 -0400551_ISO-8859-1 Oh Noam, you are so so out of it. That is the latest part of the conspiracy theory. It seems that unlike everyone else on the planes, half the hijackers lived through it and are somewhere else.

Of course, most of these names are a lot more common name than Judy Gelman and there are 7-8 of us of about the same age, two in Habonim (including me) , one in Israel, one in Detroit, one a cookbook author, two in Montgomery County high schools in the early 1970's (including me). On second thought, maybe I'm doing all those things [...] 25607 76 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:18:46 -0600477_us-ascii The predictability of the call and response on this list puts us in jeopardy of parodization. One could go thru the archives and create a software program that could run this list eternally, with no further active participation of any of us. Any takers?

I agree that all the counter-explanations of what "really" happened have large gaping holes. But snarkily pointing that out does not answer the legitimate questions raised by many of the investigators. [...] 25684 300 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 19:58:28 -0500504_us-ascii Noam wrote:* "...what I was trying to say the other day about my objections to the idea that the attacks on Sept 11, 2001 "changed everything".*" *"but I think it is all overblown"* 9-11 has had an immense influence on the politics, policies and actions of multiple nations, caused wars, exacerbated regional conflicts, changed the global balance of power /and/ the effects of 9-11 are still reverberating and will for many years to come. Other than that it has changed absolutely nothing. [...] 25985 502 35_Re: Bad Taste and Really Bad Timing11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 20:06:37 -0600680_us-ascii Steve,

Always remember two things... timing is everything and bad taste is timeless.

Phil



At 08:18 PM 9/11/2006 +0200, you wrote: >Steve, when you're in a less somber mood, go to this site and have a look >around. It's hysterical. Check out the books for sale. The whole thing is >beyond parody. > >Jon >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Steve Klein >Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:57 PM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Bad Taste and Really Bad Timing > >While or nation mourns (well, most of us, anyway), a congratulatory >message to the terrorists [...] 26488 165 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:21:01 -0400483_iso-8859-1 Before all that (the wars, exacerbation of regional conflicts, changes in the balance of powers) occurred people were already saying it "changed everything". And then they made it so. And I think now and thought then that it is all a ridiculous overreaction. If you want to buy into the hysteria, b'vakasha. I'll continue to argue that we shouldn't throw away our values and our way of life. Because if we do that aren't we doing exactly what Osama and company want? [...] 26654 100 16_Re: (no subject)17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:25:10 -0500519_us-ascii Amen.

Sylvia Lask wrote:

> *I just returned home from a very moving memorial service held at the > hospital where I serve on the Board. Anyone who thinks > 9-11 hasn't changed our lives is living in a dream world. I think > everytime one us travels or even thinks of traveling, we have this > little fear in us. I travel a lot I know my feelings sare different > then they were before 9/11. I miss the New York Skyline as I knew > it. My hope is that somehow this world we live in will find [...] 26755 87 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:35:21 -0400608_ISO-8859-1 It changed everything because we let it change everything.

But part of the importance of Sept 11 is that the attacks happened in two of the three most important communication centers of the nation (NY and DC; the third is LA--imagine the pageantry today if 2000+ Hollywood types had died instead of 100 military types, 2000 people in the financial district and several hundred others, mostly from Boston, who were flying cross country.) People in DC and in NY's financial district tend to think they live in the center of the universe and this confirmed it. It changed everything that [...] 26843 56 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:56:42 EDT539_US-ASCII Judy, believe me I don't run anything and 9/11 changed my life. When Kennedy was assinated, that changed our lives and when MLK & Bobby Kennedy were shot....those events changed our lives also. I travel a lot for speaking out as an advocate for improved mental health services. I flew to Bilouxi Mississippi ten days after 9/11 and I was a little frightened and I am not ashamed to admit. I travel up and down NY State and while I will not give in to terriosts, I will look over my shoulder. Again, I have to have hope for a [...] 26900 560 18_9/11 5 years later11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 23:00:25 -0400398_iso-8859-1 With less than an hour to go (at least from where I sit) in this contemplative day, I’m figuring I might as well start a discussion that I believe everyone can contribute to b/c everyone has their own story about that day. So here we go.

Where were you on 9/11/01? How did you find out what was happening? What were you doing? What were your thoughts? What do you think now? [...] 27461 219 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Sep 2006 22:08:47 -0500591_us-ascii We absolutely should not throw away our values or our way of life. I fight for that every day and abhor the current policies of our government. I agree that the Bushies seem to do largely what Al Qaeda wants them to do. There are also harsh realities. Because the current administration is totally mishandling the situation while simultaneously abusing it as a cheap political weapon does not mean that there is no real danger. I have railed mercilessly on neoconservatives, but the concept that 9-11 was some neocon conspiracy is absolutely absurd on the face of it. It would [...] 27681 27 13_Re: bernstein12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:38:49 +0200 27709 45 26_the day the world changed?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:47:34 -0700600_iso-8859-1 Many people talk about how "everything changed" on 9/11/2001. Obviously, not everything changed. Most people still do pretty much what they did on 9/10/2001; crops still grow, the ice caps still melt. A lot of stuff is different, but to say "everything changed" is the epitome of American hubris. For lots of people in, for example, southeast Asia, very little changed on 9/11/2001, but everything changed when a tsunami washed over their beach a while later. It takes more time to get on a plane these days, but what percentage of the world flies around? The US government has taken [...] 27755 61 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:12:35 -0400288_ISO-8859-1 Right. I never said it was a neocon conspiracy and after the bit that you quoted I also said "That isn't to say that there aren't "bad guys" out there, but simply that they aren't hiding under every bed, and aren't a reason to abandon our way of life or our core values." [...] 27817 34 20_Effi Eitam's remarks28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:35:04 -0400357_ISO-8859-1 I tried to send a note earlier referencing the story below describing Effi Eitam's remarks calling for expulsion of Arabs from the West Bank and from Israeli politics. I don't see it on the listserv so perhaps it fell into the bit bucket.

Others have written here about a 5th column, so perhaps there is support here for his remarks? [...] 27852 168 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:38:27 -0400576_us-ascii The neocon conspiracy is not to emphasize that there are bad guys out there. The neocon conspiracy is there are bad guys out there and voting for anybody but Bush will encourage the bad guys. Dick Cheney says so. Because there are bad guys out there we have to be completely obedient to Dick Cheney and David Addington. The courts and due process arenot needed any more because Cheney knows best. Also we cannot be distracted by energy conservation. That is just personal virture, not good policy. Cheney says so. And global warming that is just a big scam made [...] 28021 69 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 11:48:18 -0700621_iso-8859-1 The telecommunications pipeline that Noam talks about is no doubt still as vulnerable today as it was 10 years ago. Anyone who gives the matter a bit of thought can identify many other elements of our infrastructure that are vulnerable and whose destruction would cause massive disruption in our lives and the country's economy. These vulnerabilities did not suddenly appear on 9/11/2001, and few of them have been addressed in even a half-assed way since then. So why hasn't anyone shipped a container full of explosives through the Port of LA/Long Beach? Why hasn't anyone cut the electricity grid? Why [...] 28091 96 6_DELETE13_Shila Tuchman27_stuchman@BAKERDEMSCHOOL.ORG31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 13:51:30 -0500445_us-ascii Please remove my name from the mailing list now.

Thank you



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 28188 122 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 15:43:21 EDT652_US-ASCII

In a message dated 9/12/2006 3:25:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:

So why hasn't anyone shipped a container full of explosives through the Port of LA/Long Beach? Why hasn't anyone cut the electricity grid? Why hasn't anyone let loose another Internet worm that even temporarily takes the Internet out of commission (it was done once in the '80s when relatively few people were inconvenienced)? It's certainly not because of our eternal vigilance or the war in Iraq. Could it be the the threat is vastly overblown and that we should focus our attention on something else? Something like global [...] 28311 72 13_Missing posts13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:59:03 +0200517_us-ascii

Is there anyone else on Habonet to whom it seems like they're not receiving all of the messages? I see references to posts I haven't received in messages.

Any ideas, someone?

Jon



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 28384 254 46_Re: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda13_Dan Bernstein17_dsb1@NYCAP.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 16:23:27 -0400558_us-ascii Thanks for the reminder. I'm off to vote in the NY State primaries for the Dems... smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> The neocon conspiracy is not to emphasize that there are bad guys out > there. The neocon conspiracy is there are bad guys out there and > voting for anybody but Bush will encourage the bad guys. Dick Cheney > says so. Because there are bad guys out there we have to be completely > obedient to Dick Cheney and David Addington. The courts and due > process arenot needed any more because Cheney knows best. Also we > cannot be [...] 28639 46 25_Sonic Memorial- A website16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:33:03 -0700465_iso-8859-1 Sonic memorial http://www.sonicmemorial.org/sonic/public/index.html The Sonic Memorial Project is a unique online audio installation that weaves a vast array of audio recordings related to the history of the World Trade Center before and after the events of 9/11. The site also features an open archive with over 1,000 firsthand accounts as well as links to more developed stories featured on the National Public Radio program "Lost & Found Sound." [...] 28686 118 22_likud charter question11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:45:38 -0400629_iso-8859-1 Found this in a NYT article discussing the negotiations for a Palestinian "unity" government and issues around the Hamas refusal to accept Israel:

'Hamas recognizes the fact of Israel but refuses to recognize its right to exist, a position repeated Monday by a Hamas spokesman, Sami Abu Zuhri, when he said: "Hamas will still have its political agenda. We will never recognize the legitimacy of the occupation." That term lets Hamas be vague at different moments about whether it means the occupation of land captured during the 1967 war, or, as its charter insists, Israel's very existence in the region. [...] 28805 79 25_american history question13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:56:21 -0400590_iso-8859-1 I was reading in Wikipedia that Virginia, although it was one of the original 13 colonies and that it was the first area to be permanently colonized by the British in the new world [verbatim quote: "Virginia was the first part of the Americas to be colonized permanently by England." - whatever that means... YW], it also seceded from the Union in 1861 and joined the South's Confederacy instead. Now, Wikipedia doesn't say so, but this is my question: Was Virginia the only one of the original thirteen colonies to join the Confederacy in the American Civil War? Sorry for [...] 28885 156 29_Re: american history question11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:33:16 -0400385_iso-8859-1 Yuval,

North and South Carolina, and Georgia are original colonies that joined the Confederacy.

Other locations North Carolina comes to mind, had earlier colonies, but they didn't last. Jamestown, VA survived, hence the "colonized permanently". Typical US short term perspective, a mere handful of hundreds of years and they call it permanent. Pffft! :-) [...] 29042 104 17_Re: Missing posts17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 19:38:12 -0500340_us-ascii Do you have a junk mail filter and if so have you checked your junk, spam or trash folders? I haven't noticed anything missing although sometimes it does end up in my junk folder because of the filter. I have noticed that sometimes people's responses will arrive before the original e-mail eliciting those responses shows up. [...] 29147 57 29_Re: american history question0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:37:40 EDT450_US-ASCII Other "original colonies" in the CSA were Georgia and North and South Carolina.

Virginia voted to secede, true, but by that time the western part of Virginia decided to stay in the Union, and thereby became West Virginia.

Of course, there's a lot of territory that hadn't been "settled" (by white Europeans) at the time of the colonies that later became part of the confederacy, like Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississipi, etc. [...] 29205 66 29_Re: american history question11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:41:40 -0400614_ISO-8859-1 Dear Yuval- 1) The Spanish colonized the New World before England did--Columbus founded the first Spanish colony on Hispaniola in 1493 and Coronado was in Arizona 60 years before the English came to the East Coast (although it was colonized later.) . 2) The first continuous English colony, in Virginia, was established in 1607. 3) Plymouth Rock and all the Massachusetts chauvinism aside, the first English colony to survive was, fittingly for later US history , a commercial enterprise by the Virginia Company at Jamestown, VA and not a high minded spiritual colony of people seeking to set up a [...] 29272 217 29_Re: american history question13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:53:57 -0400612_iso-8859-1 Thanks a lot for the quick clarification, Noam. ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:33 PM Subject: Re: american history question



Yuval,

North and South Carolina, and Georgia are original colonies that joined the Confederacy.

Other locations North Carolina comes to mind, had earlier colonies, but they didn't last. Jamestown, VA survived, hence the "colonized permanently". Typical US short term perspective, a mere handful of hundreds of years and they call it permanent. Pffft! :-) [...] 29490 110 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:04:49 -0400576_us-ascii No, no, no... 9/11-- A Modern Fairy Tale would be something printed in high school text books in the next couple decades. It would cite how America was under attack and that Iraq was primarily responsible. It would say that America was a land where everyone was free and equal, but that day all of these things were threatened. It would say that Bush, a president who everybody admired for his leadership abilities and progressive values (ie it would talk about him the way other people in history are talked about, like they could do no wrong)... and that only [...] 29601 146 29_Re: american history question13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:14:21 -0400634_iso-8859-1 Right, thanks. What I had not realized until today is that there were all these original colonies (the ones from Virginia down, geographically) that were part of the Confederacy. I always thought that the bulk of the Union were the original 13 colonies, but that is not exactly what happened... All the other eminently Southern states you mention were always 'naturally' in the Confederacy (in my mind, at least, that is... ;<] ). Interesting stuff when you somehow have to think about it... ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: DebALev@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 8:37 [...] 29748 20 10_Re: DELETE8_zbraiter24_zbraiter@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:13:31 -0400439_ISO-8859-1 Please remove my name from the mailing list now.

Thank you

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 29769 70 29_Re: american history question13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:47:05 -0400394_iso-8859-1 boy, some real experts in American history here. Thanks again, Judy. (The Spanish colonization, on the other hand, is an area I've been studying for many years...) [The other thing I never realized is that Virginia is called like that in honor of Elizabeth, who was called the 'Virgin Queen'. Was she really called like that in her lifetime?... Pretty weird stuff.] ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 29840 76 38_Rockefeller: Bush Duped Public On Iraq11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 20:32:09 -0600622_iso-8859-1 Rockefeller: Bush Duped Public On Iraq

CBS News Exclusive:

Rockefeller went a step further. He says the world would be better off today if the United States had never invaded Iraq even if it means Saddam Hussein would still be running Iraq. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14940.htm



09/09/06 "CBS" -- -- When the Senate Intelligence Committee released a declassified version of its findings this past week, the Republican chairman of the committee, Pat Roberts, left town without doing interviews, calling the report a rehash of unfounded partisan allegations. [...] 29917 468 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:27:46 -0600465_us-ascii Noam,

Sorry for the tardy reply to your moderately snarky comments. I had to get my tinfoil hat relined because of the increase in thought ray attacks lately. Don't want to end up like Sam, donchaknow. Bad jewjew.

Phil.

At 11:26 AM 9/11/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Wow, Phil, lots of food for thought there. I have a couple questions. > >Can you explain the bit about Israeli security at Logan Airport? My >geography seems to be off. [...] 30386 267 57_Fw: Fwd: Fw: An Expose on Hypocrisy by Frederick Forsythe11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:58:39 -0700443_iso-8859-1

Worth aread

Steve

Subject: FW: Forsyth on disproportionate response

Frederick Forsyth, author of Day of the Jackal among other novels, and no particular friend of Israel's wrote this excellent piece:

Frederick Forsyth (Daily Express, 11/8): "It must surely be true that the level of lies and hypocrisy that a society can tolerate is in direct proportion to the degeneration of that culture. [...] 30654 65 6_Hebrew16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 13:40:46 -0400570_us-ascii A look at how Hebrew became established in Israel, and the challenges that Hebrew faces from globalization and the steady infiltration of English

http://www.hadassah.org/news/content/per_hadassah/archive/2004/04_JUN/feature-revolution.asp





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30720 85 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 10:54:04 -0700584_iso-8859-1 Sam, you use the label "neocon" the way AM radio hosts use the word liberal. I truely wish you would stop it.

smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: The neocon conspiracy is not to emphasize that there are bad guys out there. The neocon conspiracy is there are bad guys out there and voting for anybody but Bush will encourage the bad guys. Dick Cheney says so. Because there are bad guys out there we have to be completely obedient to Dick Cheney and David Addington. The courts and due process arenot needed any more because Cheney knows best. Also we cannot be distracted [...] 30806 63 29_Re: american history question13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 11:02:13 -0700503_iso-8859-1 Kentucky never became part of the Conderacy. A star for it was included on the Confederate flag but it never did secede and, in fact, was invaded by southern forces in 1862 who were very upset that the good cotizens of the "Bluegrass" state didn't flock to their cause. Maryland was also given a star on the Confederate flag but never did secede, in that cause largely because Lincoln had many members of the Maryland legislature arrested thus preventing them from voting for secession. [...] 30870 153 29_Re: american history question0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:13:33 -0400638_us-ascii









Kentucky never became part of the Conderacy. A star for it was included on the Confederate flag but it never did secede and, in fact, was invaded by southern forces in 1862 who were very upset that the good cotizens of the "Bluegrass" state didn't flock to their cause.



Kentucky was not a slam dunk union state. Grant invaded it early on and did not find the citizens in Western Kentucky totally friendly. Both Eastern Kentucky and Eastern Tennesee tended to be pro union. The west did not. Those mountainess parts of the South where planatitions could not exist never [...] 31024 168 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:19:20 -0400645_us-ascii





-----Original Message----- From: rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda



Sam, you use the label "neocon" the way AM radio hosts use the word liberal. I truely wish you would stop it.

Absolutely not. I am referring to a small group of people like Richard Pearl and Paul Wolfowitz who formulated this idea and guys like Karl Rove who sold it to the public. (Did I mention David Addington) I am specifically talking about the polices of the Bush adminstration. After 9/11 they used their bully pulpit to push a whole [...] 31193 45 18_Afilu Arava Bochah16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 14:26:07 -0700574_iso-8859-1 Unpublished as of yet poems by Natan Yonatan. (In Hebrew)

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3303568,00.html



--------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 31239 24 26_Re: likud charter question12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 18:05:20 -0400440_us-ascii As far as I know, Likud has never "renounced" its charter objective of "Both banks of the Jordan," which was inherited from Herut's charter and probably originated with Jabotinsky.

And as far as I know, only the PLO charter is subjected to scrutiny.

To tell you the truth, I'm stunned to hear that any mainstream American journalist mentioned the Likud charter, even if it was in a quotation from a Palestinian. [...] 31264 150 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 19:07:18 -0400555_iso-8859-1 Phil,

Sorry you feel I was being "snarky". I've noticed there is never any sarcasm in your notes.

Seems odd that there is no mention of the company that did security at Dulles Airport - how could those clever Jews overlook that? This business of blaming Israel for the security lapse, on the heels of your suggestion that perhaps the attack was a plot to inspire a crusade against Israel's enemies leaves me stunned - clearly you are saying "(Once again) the Jews did it!". Why not update the "Protocols" while you're at it? [...] 31415 204 29_Re: 911 - A Modern Fairy Tale0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 19:28:28 -0400419_us-ascii







Hope you don't run out of tinfoil.

Noam

Yes he needs that tin foil because other wise he will wind up like me. See below he says so. I will be so rude as to quote for Phil a lyric from one of my own songs called the Shepherds of Love. It is the first song on the Effortlessly Album released in 1997. ( I do other things than just post postings about neocons) [...] 31620 106 32_The Palestinian unity government16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Sep 2006 16:53:45 -0700709_iso-8859-1 Of Interest:

Analysis of Near East Policy from the scholars and associates of The Washington Institute









PolicyWatch #1148 The Future of a Palestinian Unity Government By Ben Fishman and Mohammed Yaghi September 13, 2006

On September 11, 2006, advisors to Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas and prime minister Ismail Haniyeh announced that the two had reached agreement on the formation of a national unity government after months of on-again, off-again discussions. The core of the agreement appears to be that Haniyeh will remain prime minister, Hamas will yield some key ministries, such as finance and foreign affairs, to Fatah, and the [...] 31727 28 23_apt to let in Kfar Saba21_brian@cooperspace.net21_brian@COOPERSPACE.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:42:44 -0400350_ISO-8859-1 Hi All,

I have a friend who says he has an apartment in Israel in Kfar-Saba that they would like to rent from November 1, 2006. It has 5 rooms, 2 bathrooms, 2 porches, 2 car-parking, a storage...great location. He's asking $750 but can negotiate.

Let me know if you want his contact info.. email me privately, off-list. [...] 31756 52 27_Re: apt to let in Kfar Saba11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 01:00:32 -0400530_us-ascii Sorry I can't resist saying this...

NEGOTIATE?? I'd love to have an apartment like that for that price! I'm paying almost $800 for a one ROOM (not one bedroom, one ROOM) apartment in Brooklyn... in one of the least expensive areas! Extortion!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

JE

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of brian@cooperspace.net Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:43 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: apt to let in Kfar Saba [...] 31809 33 13_Likud Charter28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter20_habesor@SMILE.NET.IL31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 08:05:29 +0200606_iso-8859-1 "As far as I know, Likud has never "renounced" its charter objective of "Both banks of the Jordan," which was inherited from Herut's charter and probably originated with Jabotinsky."

As far as I know the Likud doesn't have a charter. It has a party platform which it alters and publishes before elections. In the latest Likud party platform there is a call to make the Jordan River Israel's Eastern border. This is in contradiction to the slogan "Both Banks of the Jordan" which hasn't been heard at least since the Likud members of the Knesset voted to accept the Jordanian-Israeli [...] 31843 78 27_Re: apt to let in Kfar Saba17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:53:48 +0200660_us-ascii Aliya is only a rental agreement away.





>Sorry I can't resist saying this... > >NEGOTIATE?? I'd love to have an apartment like that for that price! I'm >paying almost $800 for a one ROOM (not one bedroom, one ROOM) apartment in >Brooklyn... in one of the least expensive areas! Extortion!!!!!!!!!!!! :D > >JE > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of brian@cooperspace.net >Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:43 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: apt to let in Kfar Saba > >Hi All, > >I have a friend who says he has an apartment in Israel in [...] 31922 67 15_The Master Plan13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:16:01 +0200526_us-ascii

A riveting account of the history of the Jihadi movement from the New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060911fa_fact3

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 31990 52 17_Re: Likud Charter11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 06:49:19 -0400635_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal and Efraim Perlmutter" To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 2:05 AM Subject: Likud Charter



> "As far as I know, Likud has never "renounced" its charter objective of > "Both banks of the Jordan," which was inherited from Herut's charter and > probably originated with Jabotinsky." > > As far as I know the Likud doesn't have a charter. It has a party platform > which it alters and publishes before elections. In the latest Likud party > platform there is a call to make the Jordan River Israel's Eastern border. > [...] 32043 77 22_Israel Gets Super Subs13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:24:47 +0200480_us-ascii

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2006913232446.asp Jonathan Baum Kibbutz Sasa Israel



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 32121 104 27_Re: apt to let in Kfar Saba12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:27:13 +0200574_us-ascii And I'm paying $600 a month for two large rooms. Any one want to share. References required.

Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Sheldon and Heidi Date: Thursday, September 14, 2006 10:53 am Subject: Re: apt to let in Kfar Saba

> Aliya is only a rental agreement away. > > > > >Sorry I can't resist saying this... > > > >NEGOTIATE?? I'd love to have an apartment like that for that > price! I'm > >paying almost $800 for a one ROOM (not one bedroom, one ROOM) > apartment in > >Brooklyn... in one of the least [...] 32226 50 26_Re: Israel Gets Super Subs0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 10:58:03 EDT432_US-ASCII Thanks Jonathan. Don't know where you dig up these sites. How accurate has information from this site been in the past? Avi

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32277 23 27_Re: apt to let in Kfar Saba14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 17:14:07 +0200548_iso-8859-1 If anyone is interested in buying an apartment in Beer Sheva, please contact me off Habonet. 100 square meters, 2 bedrooms, second floor in Shikun Hey L'dugma. Near 2 banks, supermarket, bus line.

Dave Holtzer carmdave@urim.org.il

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32301 146 26_Re: Israel Gets Super Subs13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:38:22 +0200391_us-ascii Thanks Avi. James Dunnigan is a well-known military commentator and author who is not given to wild speculation. He often appears on American TV news programs. I met him way back in the 70s when I would visit New York and go to his wargame company to play games in development. The other commentator on this site is Austen Bay, who is similarly respected as a military expert. [...] 32448 44 27_Re: apt to let in Kfar Saba11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:00:15 -0700742_us-ascii I'm actually interested in a place in the north, so if anyone has any leads....

Batel

-----Original Message----- >From: Holtzer Family >Sent: Sep 14, 2006 8:14 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: apt to let in Kfar Saba > >If anyone is interested in buying an apartment in Beer Sheva, please contact >me off Habonet. 100 square meters, 2 bedrooms, second floor in Shikun Hey >L'dugma. Near 2 banks, supermarket, bus line. > > Dave Holtzer >carmdave@urim.org.il > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses [...] 32493 418 26_Imagining the unimaginable13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:58:25 +0200708_us-ascii To shorten the message I've not included the footnotes. They're on the web page. Jon



The ongoing failure of imagination

By Graham Allison September/October 2006 pp. 36-41 (vol. 62, no. 5) C 2006 Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

Prior to 9/11, most Americans found the idea that international terrorists could mount an attack on their homeland and kill thousands of innocent citizens not just unlikely, but inconceivable. Psychologically, Americans imagined that they lived in a security bubble. Terrorist attacks, including those on U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, occurred elsewhere. These beliefs were reinforced by the conventional wisdom among terrorism [...] 32912 89 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:32:49 -0700394_iso-8859-1 I will ignore the second paragraph since it has nothing to do with anything I said.

AM radio hosts constantly discribe someone or something as "liberal" as a way of saying "evil." You seem to do the same by using the term "neocon." It is both annoying when they do it and, in a way, even more annoying when you do it because I tend to agree with your policy suggestions. [...] 33002 55 29_Brad Burston to Receive Award0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:06:18 -0400502_us-ascii Since many folks seem to appreciate his writing, you will be pleased to know that Bradley is being recognized for his work by Search for Common Ground. Details in the link below......Ken

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/762913.html ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. [...] 33058 85 30_Re: Imagining the unimaginable11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 19:22:42 -0400655_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Baum" To: Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 3:58 PM Subject: Imagining the unimaginable



> To shorten the message I've not included the footnotes. They're on the web > page. Jon > > The ongoing failure of imagination > > By Graham Allison > September/October 2006 pp. 36-41 (vol. 62, no. 5) C 2006 Bulletin of the > Atomic Scientists > > Prior to 9/11, most Americans found the idea that international terrorists > could mount an attack on their homeland and kill thousands of innocent > citizens not just unlikely, but inconceivable. [...] 33144 63 49_The Fading International Resolve to Confront Iran16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:15:16 -0700661_iso-8859-1 No. 186 September 14, 2006 After the 31 August Deadline: The Fading International Resolve to Confront Iran Emily B. Landau Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies On August 31, Iran clarified that it had no intention of suspending uranium enrichment activities as demanded by UN Security Council Resolution 1696.Nevertheless, the expiration of this deadline has not opened the door to immediate discussions on sanctions. In fact, any resolve the international community once had to force Iran either to acquiesce or be exposed as a defiant nuclear proliferator is quickly dissolving, and only the US is now pressing for sanctions. European leaders, [...] 33208 2070 16_Berman Statement16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:24:28 -0700475_iso-8859-1 Worth Reading.

06_09_14_berman_statement.pdf



--------------------------------- Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

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35279 146 24_Re: Waiting for Al Qaeda0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 14 Sep 2006 23:06:33 EDT482_US-ASCII

In a message dated 09/14/2006 5:33:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM writes:

What you seem to ignore, or forget, is that the first neo-conservatives were Democrats like Daniel Patrick Moynahan and Henry "Scoop" Jackson who, while tending to support progressive, New Deal, domestic policy recognized the danger of the Soviet Union. Both of these "neocons" were very instrumental in getting issues like Soviet Jews on the front burner. [...] 35426 91 21_All that we have left16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 05:37:57 -0700505_iso-8859-1 A nice read.

David Grossman's eulogy is a formative text because, this is how, like the deceased Uri Grossman, the boys and girls who live in our generation are growing up. They can no longer grow up like Eliphelet.



All that we have left By Nissim Calderon

The eulogy that David Grossman wrote for his son Uri is a formative text. Israelis, and non-Israelis, will go back and reread it for many years to come. Students will study it. Scholars will analyze it. [...] 35518 42 25_Oriana Falacci Dies at 7616_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 09:54:47 -0700674_iso-8859-1 Journalist Fallaci dies at 76 Oriana Fallaci, the Italian journalist who changed from one of Israel’s toughest critics to one of its staunchest defenders, died Friday at age 76. Fallaci died in her native Florence, where she was being treated for breast cancer. Fallaci became famous for confrontational interviews with figures including PLO leader Yasser Arafat and Iran’s Ayatollah Khomenei. Fallaci was scathing in her early criticism of Israel’s settlement policy and defended Palestinian terrorism; by the time of the recent intifada, however, she defended Israel as a bulwark against Islamic extremism and excoriated her Catholic church for being weak [...] 35561 66 33_Young Jews form new prayer groups16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 10:06:02 -0700628_iso-8859-1 FOCUS ON ISSUES Turned off by traditional services, young Jews form new prayer groups By Sue Fishkoff September 11, 2006

SAN FRANCISCO, Sept. 11 (JTA) — In a second-story room of a downtown community building, a young, redheaded woman wearing a long skirt and sandals leads 80 worshippers in the prayer service that welcomes Shabbat. Men and women are sitting together, but a few men — not comfortable sitting with women during services — pray off to the side. RELATED ARTICLES A new wave leads havurot Pluralistic shul seating has precedentAs Kabbalat Shabbat moves into Ma’ariv, the evening prayer, the [...] 35628 84 21_All that we have left12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:26:17 -0400 35713 91 37_Re: Young Jews form new prayer groups12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:25:47 -0700629_iso-8859-1 Intesting that this article culminates in the Conservative movement seeing these minyanim as potential future Conservative institutions. To me, this says a lot about why so many Jews are turned off by organized (American) Judaism--it's all about the numbers: how many congregations, how many members, how much money raised, etc. Giving the benefit of the doubt, there's no way to know what was edited out, but Epstein seems to ignore the very clear message of this minyan movement: affiliated synagogues are not meeting the spiritual needs of a segment of the Jewish population and here is an alternative that is [...] 35805 110 37_Re: Young Jews form new prayer groups16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 14:34:50 -0700677_iso-8859-1 That is exactly the point that stood out to me as well

affiliated synagogues are not meeting the spiritual needs of a segment of the Jewish poulation.

Shabbat SHalom, Rozzie



Sharon Gates wrote: Intesting that this article culminates in the Conservative movement seeing these minyanim as potential future Conservative institutions. To me, this says a lot about why so many Jews are turned off by organized (American) Judaism--it's all about the numbers: how many congregations, how many members, how much money raised, etc. Giving the benefit of the doubt, there's no way to know what was edited out, but [...] 35916 70 37_Re: Young Jews form new prayer groups0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 21:14:06 EDT473_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/15/06 4:27:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:



> affiliated synagogues are not meeting the spiritual needs of a segment of > the Jewish population and here is an alternative that is meeting those > needs.

There are those in the Conservative Movement who would agree with you and they are trying to make changes. It remains to be seen however if their efforts will be too little, too late. [...] 35987 122 27_this is simply unreal to me11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Fri, 15 Sep 2006 22:53:36 -0400772_us-ascii Check this out: www.jesuscampthemovie.com and click on "downloads" then "videos." Brainwashing at its finest.





----------------------------------

Coming soon! www.esris.com and www.galil95-98.net





"Ain't each man alive got the right to stray just a might from the straight and narrow; shoot through the night like a flaming arrow?" --Jim Dale, "Barnum"







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 36110 215 38_BRITAIN: The disappearing terror plots11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 16 Sep 2006 10:48:59 -0600783_iso-8859-1 BRITAIN: The mysterious case of the disappearing 'terror’ plots

Norm Dixon

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2006/683/683p19.htm

Readers of Britain’s newspapers are regularly accosted with blood-curdling banner headlines screaming of the “thwarting” of potentially catastrophic “terror plots”, of “Islamic fanatics” being apprehended in daring midnight raids. “Chilling” details, “revealed” by anonymous police and government “sources”, underline why “we” must accept a “trade-off” between civil liberties and “security”, the editorials assure an apprehensive populace. Months or even years later, however, news that many of the “plots” never actually existed is buried behind the latest sex scandal or exploitative “expose” — if reported at all. [...] 36326 136 20_The American "Gulag"13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 15:08:14 +0200364_us-ascii You people are nuts:

A DEADLY KINDNESS

By RICHARD MINITER

September 15, 2006 -- GUANTANAMO BAY, CUBA

ON the military plane back from America's most fa mous terrorist holding pen, the in-flight film was "V for Vendetta," a screed that tries to justify terrorism. It was a fitting end to a surreal, military-sponsored trip. [...] 36463 372 24_Re: The American "Gulag"17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 09:26:46 -0500602_us-ascii I find this essay hard to believe, especially considering that Miniter is a darling of Fox News and the National Review. Guys like this see only what the Bush administration wants them to see and they look no further because they drink the kool aid. He makes no mention of our secret prisons abroad or of rendition to nations where torture is standard operating procedure. Why did Cheney spend time on Capitol Hill exerting pressure on the Senate to not pass a bill outlawing torture? Why is the Bush administration furiously fighting to "redefine" Article III of the Geneva Conventions? [...] 36836 690 24_Re: The American "Gulag"13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 18:15:54 +0200512_us-ascii Eli, if this is how the Bush administration runs a terrorist detention center, how would the Dems run one? Jacuzzis? If you want to defeat terrorism, intelligence (in the military sense) is more important than firepower.

Like I said, you people are nuts.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Shawn Eli Barland Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 4:27 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: The American "Gulag" [...] 37527 381 24_Re: The American "Gulag"17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 11:10:24 -0500340_ISO-8859-1 Jon, Almost no usable intelligence comes from torture. People will say anything under extreme duress. Check out this article. It makes a lot more sense to me than Richard Miniter's article.

*The Unofficial Story of the al-Qaeda 14* Their torture by the CIA was wrong--in more ways than you might think By RON SUSKIND [...] 37909 82 24_Re: The American "Gulag"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:38:08 EDT551_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/17/2006 11:17:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL writes:

Eli, if this is how the Bush administration runs a terrorist detention center, how would the Dems run one? Jacuzzis? If you want to defeat terrorism, intelligence (in the military sense) is more important than firepower.



You have it exactly backwards Jon. Bush is the one with no strategic sense. Your comments about the Dems and Jacuzzis is beyond the pale and shows how bigoted you have become against the rest of us. [...] 37992 85 19_FW: Who is Jon Baum13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 20:56:13 +0200480_us-ascii

-----Original Message----- From: Smfgrappa@aol.com [mailto:Smfgrappa@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:45 PM To: jonbaum@ksasa.co.il Subject: Who is Jon Baum



Jon

I have been waiting to see who you really are. That comment about the Dems and the Jacuzzis says it all. Your a stupid right wing bigot. I can forgive you for being a right wing bigot. Its harder to forgive you for being stupid. I just have no patience for fools. [...] 38078 103 16_The Papal speech16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 13:46:44 -0700735_iso-8859-1 THIS IS THE FULL TEXT OF THE PAPAL SPEECH. YOU CAN DECIDE WHETHER THIS WAS DELIBERATELY INCENDIARY OR NOT.





<../../../../../../index.htm> <_javascript:history.go(-1)> <_javascript:up()> APOSTOLIC JOURNEY OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI TO MÜNCHEN, ALTÖTTING AND REGENSBURG (SEPTEMBER 9-14, 2006) MEETING WITH THE REPRESENTATIVES OF SCIENCE LECTURE OF THE HOLY FATHER Aula Magna of the University of Regensburg Tuesday, 12 September 2006 Faith, Reason and the University Memories and Reflections Your Eminences, Your Magnificences, Your Excellencies, Distinguished Ladies and Gentlemen, It is a moving experience for me to be back again in the university and to be able once again to give a [...] 38182 48 23_Re: FW: Who is Jon Baum11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:53:19 -0400584_ISO-8859-1 Let's stop the name calling, in public or in private. Judy

Jonathan Baum wrote:

> > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Smfgrappa@aol.com [mailto:Smfgrappa@aol.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:45 PM > *To:* jonbaum@ksasa.co.il > *Subject:* Who is Jon Baum > > Jon > > I have been waiting to see who you really are. That comment about the > Dems and the Jacuzzis says it all. _Your a stupid right wing bigot._ I > can forgive you for being a right wing bigot. Its harder to forgive > you for being stupid. I just have no patience for fools. > [...] 38231 124 19_Fw: Who is Jon Baum11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 17:09:29 -0700581_iso-8859-1 Message This has got to stop!

"You are" is contracted correctly as "You're". Enough is enough! It would only be proper to say "You're a right-wing bigot". The missing hyphen in the original text is no big deal, so I will allow it.

Steve









Jon

I have been waiting to see who you really are. That comment about the Dems and the Jacuzzis says it all. Your a stupid right wing bigot. I can forgive you for being a right wing bigot. Its harder to forgive you for being stupid. I just have no patience for fools. [...] 38356 28 23_Re: FW: Who is Jon Baum12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:46:27 -0400568_us-ascii BRAVO. BEEN THERE, EXPERIENCED THAT. AMNON

----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Gelman Date: Sunday, September 17, 2006 4:53 pm Subject: Re: FW: Who is Jon Baum

> Let's stop the name calling, in public or in private. > Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 38385 28 23_Re: Fw: Who is Jon Baum12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:28:36 -0400595_us-ascii > This has got to stop! > > "You are" is contracted correctly as "You're". Enough is enough! > It would only be proper to say "You're a right-wing bigot". The > missing hyphen in the original text is no big deal, so I will allow it.

ROTFL

Yasher koach, Steve.

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 38414 75 19_Like a bad check...13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:27:13 +0200532_us-ascii

Phil, I thought you might want to sign up with these guys.

http://www.nextleftnotes.org/

Cue the Jefferson Airplane soundtrack.

Jon

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 38490 166 44_The Pope did us all a favor/ Bradley Burston16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 05:10:08 -0700415_iso-8859-1 It means opening the box so that we can examine what's in there, for good and, often, ill. Expose it, for once, to light and air.

And to courage. And to self-esteem.

A large part of having the courage of one's convictions, is a willingness to see how they actually stand up to the other side, in the context of discussion in which both sides listen at least as intently, as they talk. [...] 38657 193 24_Re: The American "Gulag"13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:14:09 -0700460_iso-8859-1 You are right, we are nuts, please feel free to not join us in our next election.

And I am sure that these folks at Gitmo, picked up three and four years ago have lots of information that the torturers from that shinning light on the hill you live in could get out of them. Unfortunetely those of us who don't live in a theocracy without a written constitution have to actually follow those darn laws that always seem to get in the way. [...] 38851 66 24_Re: The American "Gulag"12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 09:24:26 -0700394_iso-8859-1 Perhaps if one considers that even the people in Guantanamo are supposed to be considered "innocent until proven guilty" then treating them like human beings won't seem so "nuts." Even if some (or even most) of those in custody are guilty, at least some of them are innocent. One may not have compassion for how the guilty are treated, but think about those innocent prisoners. [...] 38918 153 24_Re: The American "Gulag"11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:36:22 +0000597_us-ascii 1984 came 20 years late.

----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates Date: Monday, September 18, 2006 12:33 pm Subject: Re: The American "Gulag" To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG

> Perhaps if one considers that even the people in Guantanamo are > supposed to be considered "innocent until proven guilty" then > treating them like human beings won't seem so "nuts." Even if > some (or even most) of those in custody are guilty, at least > some of them are innocent. One may not have compassion for how > the guilty are treated, but think about those innocent prisoners. > > I [...] 39072 77 10_Liberalism11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:28:01 -0700449_iso-8859-1 Sam Harris, who wrote the best-seller "An End to Faith" wrote an article in the L A. Times today commenting on what he sees as liberalism gone berserk. There are some who perhaps shouldn't read it, but real a clarion for the rest of us. It is of special interest because he himself is a noted Liberal who is now seeing his idealism being highjacked in a way that few of us could have draemed about even a just a few short years ago. [...] 39150 131 23_Re: Like a bad check...11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:38:43 -0700720_iso-8859-1 Like a bad check...I absolutely LOVED the "JATO" group ("Jews Against the Occupation")!

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:27 AM Subject: Like a bad check...







Phil, I thought you might want to sign up with these guys.

http://www.nextleftnotes.org/

Cue the Jefferson Airplane soundtrack.

Jon



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. [...] 39282 35 24_Re: The American "Gulag"12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:17:07 -0400 39318 1639 33_FW: [hdna] Camp Galil in the news10_Gil Browdy22_mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:47:25 -0400580_us-ascii



Always nice to see us in the news!





-Gil





_____

From: hdna@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hdna@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Cohen Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:40 AM To: GalilCommittee@yahoogroups.com; hdna@yahoogroups.com; Jamie Beran Subject: [hdna] Camp Galil in the news





I'm not sure if everyone saw this: http://www.pjvoice. com/ v15/15602jra.html

Really cool! When you get a bunch of chanichim in one place, they do amazing things. [...] 40958 64 24_Re: The American "Gulag"11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:47:03 -0600410_us-ascii I nominate Amnon for hypocrite of the month.

Physician heal thyself.

Savagely, Phil Safier



At 04:17 PM 9/18/2006 -0400, amnon hadari wrote:

Haverim

Let's not savage one another. We are not the enemy. Haverut is like camaraderie we don't have to like one another or what someone supports but to revile one another is vile -there! you've got me doing it. [...] 41023 166 19_The Myth of Chevrah12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 15:13:04 -0700559_iso-8859-1 I have been sitting on the sides for a couple of months now...."lurking," when so often I would want to make some comment or compliment Rozzie and Steve on the plethora of information they both post. But at this time, and with the latest round of Boys Club bashing, I can no longer be quiet. And I am hoping that the following thoughts may stir up some conversation between those of us who care about our past, and value the lessons we have learned thoughout our lives-whatever they have been. I am truly thankful for Habonet, and all that it [...] 41190 25 23_Re: Like a bad check...12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 19:11:39 -0400497_ISO-8859-1 > Cue the Jefferson Airplane soundtrack.

You make it sound like Jefferson Airplane is a bad thing. :-(

What's the matter, Jon? Don't you want somebody to love?

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 41216 50 24_Re: The American "Gulag"11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:06:54 -0400596_ISO-8859-1 Could we ALL please cut the crap and act like civilized adults? Judy

Phil Safier wrote:

> I nominate Amnon for hypocrite of the month. > > Physician heal thyself. > > Savagely, > Phil Safier > > > At 04:17 PM 9/18/2006 -0400, amnon hadari wrote: > > *Haverim > > Let's not savage one another. We are not the enemy. Haverut is like > camaraderie we don't have to like one another or what someone supports > but to revile one another is vile -there! you've got me doing it. > > Amnon* > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The [...] 41267 176 14_Re: Liberalism11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:13:26 -0400394_iso-8859-1 Thanks for the pointer to this enlightening op-ed piece Steve.

Harris says in part "...There is, therefore, no future in which aspiring martyrs will make good neighbors for us. Unless liberals realize that there are tens of millions of people in the Muslim world who are far scarier than Dick Cheney, they will be unable to protect civilization from its genuine enemies. [...] 41444 1552 33_Re: [hdna] Camp Galil in the news11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:13:42 -0400408_iso-8859-1 Thanks Gil.

At a time when some alumni are questioning the values in the movement, I welcome reminders of the great things that Habonim-Dror stands for!

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Gil Browdy To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: FW: [hdna] Camp Galil in the news







Always nice to see us in the news! [...] 42997 190 23_Re: The Myth of Chevrah11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:13:48 -0400300_ISO-8859-1 Dear Susie- Ameinu is for the "alte kakers" too. There is no upper age limit. At the DC organizing meeting yesterday, we had a couple of habonim alums who pre-date youe and the talk was how to reach people under 45. Warmly, Judy PS Don't lurk--we miss your warm and friendly postigs. [...] 43188 72 24_Re: The American "Gulag"11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:20:37 -0400415_iso-8859-1 I dunno Judy, last I checked, the chief representative of Western Civilized Adults went down to Congress to lobby for torture... It's enough to make one proud to be a 'Merkin even without voting representation.

Noam

----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" To: Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:06 PM Subject: Re: The American "Gulag" [...] 43261 90 24_Re: The American "Gulag"11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:31:24 -0400589_ISO-8859-1 OK--not all of us Merkins. Just all of us on Habonet. Judy

Noam Stopak wrote:

> I dunno Judy, last I checked, the chief representative of Western > Civilized Adults went down to Congress to lobby for torture... It's > enough to make one proud to be a 'Merkin even without voting > representation. > > Noam > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:06 PM > Subject: Re: The American "Gulag" > > >> Could we ALL please cut the crap and act like civilized adults? >> [...] 43352 249 14_Re: Liberalism17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:49:39 -0500582_us-ascii Steve, Your whole premise is, at best, incomplete. There is some truth in what Sam Harris writes. But he is talking about the extreme far left which is a small fringe minority and he does not identify it as such. How many mainstream liberals - your average working class American Democrat - harbor any thoughts of 9/11 conspiracies or doubt that terrorism is a real threat to our security? Certainly not anyone I know. Are all conservatives responsible for the opinions of the extreme far right? I don't think so. But that is not the real point. No political doctrine [...] 43602 435 14_Re: Liberalism11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:32:26 -0700564_iso-8859-1 Sorry to both of you. I have no argument with either of you on these issues as presented here. Well, little argument. Really little.

Shawn- well spoken, except that if an allusion was made to "secret agendas of my imagination", you may be barking up a wrong tree. My mind just doesn't work that way. I never wrote about secret agandas, as far as I can remember. My only one real paranoid period was in the Johnson era and Vietnam, and then all my paranoias turned out as truly-based after all. Go figure. The only one left over is Johnson's [...] 44038 47 23_Re: Like a bad check...13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:35:18 +0200423_us-ascii Actually David, I thought the Airplane were overrated, although I always liked Jorma Kaukonen and the late, great Spencer Dryden, who was a nephew of Charlie Chaplin.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of David Fleiss Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:12 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Like a bad check... [...] 44086 558 14_Re: Liberalism11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:42:18 -0600418_iso-8859-1 Dearest Steve,

As usual, you love to blame the "left" for all the ills in the world. That jibes with the real goal of the War on Terra, namely to gain permanent power for the fascist-loving right. It has very little to do with lessening the threat levels. To the contrary, the higher the perceived threat level, the more likely that the gullible and scared will grant authoritarians more power. [...] 44645 90 18_Why I hate America11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:43:38 -0600696_us-ascii http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14998.htm

Why I hate America

By Mickey Z.

09/16/07 "Information Clearing House" -- --- "Why do you hate America?" This is a remarkably easy question to provoke. One might, for instance, expose elements of this nation's brutal foreign policy. Ask a single probing question about, say, U.S. complicity in the overthrow of governments in Guatemala, Iran, or Chile and thin-skinned patriots (sic) will come out of the woodwork to defend their country's honor by accusing you of being "anti-American." Of course, this allegation might lead me to ponder how totalitarian a culture this must be to even entertain such a [...] 44736 6629 62_Fw: Fw: FW: =?windows-1255?Q?=F9=F0=E4_=E8=E5=E1=E4=E4=E4=E4?=11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:14:35 -07001143_windows-1255 Here's one to send outward.

Steve



To: silben@zahav.net.il; sheye@tzora.co.il; samjud@tzora.co.il

Subject: Fw: Fw: FW: ùðä èåáääää

















Fw: FW: ùðä èåáääää





















************************************************************************************ This footnote confirms that this email message has been scanned by PineApp Mail-SeCure for the presence of malicious code, vandals & computer viruses. ************************************************************************************

































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Walla! Mail - get your free 3G mail today

##################################################################################### This Mail Was Scanned by 012.net AntiVirus Service3- Powered by TrendMicro Interscan [...] 51366 410 14_Re: Liberalism17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 06:35:31 -0500295_us-ascii Steve, It is quite gratifying to know that you agree with what I wrote. Welcome to the sensible forces of moderation. I am glad that you are now ready to accept at least some of the tenets of liberalism and condemn the extreme right wing policies of the Bush administration. Shawn [...] 51777 299 36_What to Do If More States Go Nuclear13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:34:25 +0200633_us-ascii September 18, 2006

What to Do If More States Go Nuclear By Stephen Peter Rosen

Spurred by the progress of weapons programs in North Korea and Iran, nuclear proliferation is once again at the top of the U.S. national security agenda. Practically all of the discussion about the issue has centered on how to prevent proliferation. Hawks have pushed for regime change or military strikes, whereas doves have favored arms control and negotiation. Even though none of these measures is likely to solve the problem, few observers have spent much time considering what a postproliferation world would look like. [...] 52077 283 24_Re: The American "Gulag"13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 07:25:09 -0700352_iso-8859-1 If you are using me as an example of one who reviles others then I must take exception. I do not revile Jon. But if you are referring to Mr Baum who finds nothing wrong with voting in US elections (a country he has absolutely no loyalty to) and then referring to the citizens of this country as "you people," then I have no objections. [...] 52361 72 47_Habonim at the Darfur rally in NY - JTA article0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:50:10 -0400376_us-ascii



"Shula and Rachel Smith, sisters from Philadelphia who are 14 and 19, respectively, came as members of Habonim Dror, a labor Zionist youth movement.

"It seems like a lot of kids just don't care about what is happening in Darfur because it doesn't affect them," Rachel said. That disaffection applies to everyone, she said, not just kids." [...] 52434 340 37_NATIONAL SOLIDARITY WITH ISRAEL RALLY0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:15:30 EDT387_UTF-8



JLC arranged for Linda Chavez-Thompson, Executive Vice President of the AFL-CIO, to speak tomorrow at the National Solidarity with Israel Rally in New York. Unfortunately, Linda's sister is in a hospice and Linda rec'd a call that she should come home immediately and so, won't be at the rally. I thought you would want to see her remarks. Avi *************** [...] 52775 186 7_Loyalty13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:33:18 +0200629_us-ascii Richard, on what basis do you say that I have no loyalty to the US? Because I exercise my legal right as a citizen to vote? If you are unhappy that American expats can vote, perhaps you should contact one of these organizations to register your displeasure: http://www.democratsabroad.org/ http://www.republicansabroad.org/ I'm sure they'll be glad to help. Or you could write an angry letter to your congressman. Perhaps the "you people" was out of line. I apologize if you took exception but I wasn't really trying to separate myself from the American people. If anything, I was criticizing the Republicans since [...] 52962 500 53_[QUAR] Slate - Secular Jews try to rescue the Sabbath16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:58:04 -0400615_ISO-8859-1



faith-based The View From Saturday Secular Israelis try to rescue the Sabbath. By Judith Shulevitz Posted Friday, July 29, 2005, at 6:39 AM ET

Jerusalem on a summer Saturday can stun you with its sweetness--its taste of the world to come, the rabbis liked to say--or leave you sweaty and bored. It depends on how you spend it. If you follow the flow of foot traffic to some gorgeous old synagogue packed with enthusiastic young Jews, then get yourself invited to a leisurely luncheon underneath a spreading tree--and if you like that sort of thing--then you may thank the God [...] 53463 47 23_New York Public Library16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:26:58 -0700521_iso-8859-1 NY Public Library http://digitalgallery.nypl.org/nypldigital The New York Public Library has digitized close to 500,000 images in its collection and you are welcome to explore this tremendous database free of charge. Recently named the Best Research Site for 2006 by an international panel of museum professionals, the site boasts a variety of unique collections - from vintage postcards of Staten Island to Africana and black history photo-journalism to early landscape photography of the American West. [...] 53511 44 9_Bob Dylan16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:28:41 -0700404_iso-8859-1 Bob Dylan http://republika.pl/bobdylan/lat Artur J's Web site - Annotated Lyrics of Bob Dylan's "Love and Theft" has recently expanded and now includes annotated lyrics for other Dylan albums including "Street Legal," "Knocked Out Loaded" and "Modern Times."



--------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. [...] 53556 182 11_Re: Loyalty0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:40:21 -0400625_us-ascii









Richard, on what basis do you say that I have no loyalty to the US? Because I exercise my legal right as a citizen to vote? If you are unhappy that American expats can vote, perhaps you should contact one of these organizations to register your displeasure:

I have no problem with Jon Baum voting. The comment about "The Dems" and the Jacuzzis let me know exactly how your mind works. Whether the detainnees are being treated to well is a whole different topic. Your public posting about the Dems opens several questions about your integrity. First, you know full [...] 53739 193 13_Re: Bob Dylan0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 14:46:02 -0400391_us-ascii Rozzie

Where the heck do you find this stuff. I love that Bob Dylan song Mississppi but I could not figure out why he put Rosie in the song. I had no clue he was quoting a folk song. Wow. This is a treasure thank you.

Sam



-----Original Message----- From: rbarland@YAHOO.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 2:28 PM Subject: Bob Dylan [...] 53933 405 13_Re: Bob Dylan11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:03:10 -0600377_iso-8859-1 Did Bob Dylan lift lyrics from Charleston poet?

Posted on Mon, Sep. 18, 2006 Motoko Rich New York Times

Perhaps you've never heard of Henry Timrod, sometimes known as the poet laureate of the Confederacy.

But maybe you've heard his words, if you're one of the 320,000 people who so far have bought Bob Dylan's latest album, "Modern Times." [...] 54339 84 13_Re: Bob Dylan16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:42:19 -0700320_iso-8859-1 Sam, A girl has to have some secrets... Rozzie

smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: Rozzie

Where the heck do you find this stuff. I love that Bob Dylan song Mississppi but I could not figure out why he put Rosie in the song. I had no clue he was quoting a folk song. Wow. This is a treasure thank you. [...] 54424 60 13_Re: Bob Dylan11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 13:22:43 -0700 54485 87 13_Re: Bob Dylan0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 16:51:15 EDT590_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/19/2006 3:43:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbarland@YAHOO.COM writes:

Sam, A girl has to have some secrets... Rozzie

This lucky old man thanks that girl for sharing some of her secrets.

Sam













------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 54573 302 29_Fuzzy Math and the US Deficit0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:36:41 EDT675_US-ASCII

This came to me from a friend - a consultant for the banking industry. Avi ************************************

"If liars can figure, figures can lie," says Gary Dorsch, editor of Global Money Trends Magazine, in his recent article "Japan's Fuzzy Math and the German Scare Tactics."

Dorsch's poster child for the professional cooking of administrative books is Japan. "How should one react to Tokyo's fuzzy math," he asks, "after government apparatchiks added 34 items to the Japanese consumer price index whose prices on balance were falling, and removed 48 goods and services that were becoming more expensive? The fuzzy math produced a [...] 54876 138 73_Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder-A Glimpse Into Israeli Collective Psychosis11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:24:11 -0600414_us-ascii DO NOT READ THIS ARTICLE! IT CONTAINS DANGEROUS IDEAS. IF YOU READ IT, DO NOT DISCUSS IT RATIONALLY. USE OTHER MEANS TO DISCREDIT THE AUTHOR* AND HIS THOUGHTS. I REPEAT... DO NOT DISCUSS.

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

*See 1001 Lies About Gilad Atzmon http://www.gilad.co.uk/html%20files/1001lies.html

(A public service to protect the Jewish People(tm) from criticism and self-analysis) [...] 55015 88 33_Re: Fuzzy Math and the US Deficit0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:04:51 EDT390_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/19/2006 5:38:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, JLCAA@AOL.COM writes:



Using the official DoT numbers, every American now owes $156,000 as his or her share of government debt (in contrast to the widely touted $28,000). If we count only working Americans, the figure shoots up to a dizzying $375,000--which is a double from only five years ago. [...] 55104 32 33_Re: Fuzzy Math and the US Deficit11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 15:11:05 -0700 55137 221 11_Re: Loyalty11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:23:44 -0400297_iso-8859-1 LoyaltyWell as a citizen/resident of the continental US with no right to vote for congress, I do take exception to your double dipping Jon. I could vote in Israel but it seems to me that that is best left to those living there (which I admit is a proposition subject to debate :-) [...] 55359 89 13_Re: Bob Dylan11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:24:31 -0400618_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Safier To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Bob Dylan



Did Bob Dylan lift lyrics from Charleston poet? Hey Phil,

Is nothing sacred? Come on man, it's Bobby D!

Ya gotta serve somebody,

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 55449 42 30_"Innocent Until Proven Guilty"12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:22:40 -0400392_ISO-8859-1 In recent days, two people have used the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" with respect to the prisoners being held at Guantánamo Bay.

According to what I've read, many of the prisoners there are guilty only of sharing a name with a wanted man. Some of those wanted, of course, may be innocent of the crimes for which they are wanted. Others, no doubt, are guilty. [...] 55492 194 14_Re: Liberalism11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:29:50 -0400633_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:32 AM Subject: Re: Liberalism



Sorry to both of you. I have no argument with either of you on these issues as presented here. Well, little argument. Really little. ... Noam-

At your recommendation, I read the Zegart article. Most of it, if not all, is in the realm of the plausible. Her contention that it could have been done better? Sure! Could SHE have done it better? Could someone else? Why not? However, the real point is that the national security business is a complicated [...] 55687 74 34_Re: "Innocent Until Proven Guilty"11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 20:36:12 -0400312_iso-8859-1 David,

I'm not an attorney, so take this with a grain of salt, but my understanding is that the issue at bail hearings is whether the accused is likely to appear on the day of the trial, not necessarily a question of guilt. Another issue is whether they present a danger to the community. [...] 55762 60 28_an interesting new movie out16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 18:23:14 -0700769_iso-8859-1 Iraq for Sale var EmailArticleWindow; function email_article_popup (pid) { var url = "/blogs/email.mhtml?bid=7&pid=" + pid; if ((EmailArticleWindow) & (EmailArticleWindow.closed != true)) { EmailArticleWindow.location.href = url; } else { EmailArticleWindow = window.open(url,'EmailArticleWindow','height=370,width=300'); } } SEE ALL POSTS EMAIL THIS POST PERMALINK COMMENTS (39) The Bush administration's approach to Iraq reconstruction is about the same as its approach to everything else – greed, cronyism and corruption. Now, an important new documentary reveals more about the waste, war profiteering and lives wrecked by corporations and this administration in our name. Iraq for Sale, directed by Robert Greenwald (Wal-Mart: The High Cost of Low [...] 55823 63 33_Re: Fuzzy Math and the US Deficit0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:35:26 EDT502_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/19/06 6:06:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Smfgrappa@AOL.COM writes:



> The only people who need to worry about this are non millionaires and > surely there are none of those among us. Right?

Ahem, say Sam, could you lend me a mil or so - I have my eye on an apartment in Israel. I'll only need the money for a few weeks - thats when my new friend in Nigeria is going to give me 10 Million, just for letting him use my bank account for a few hours. [...] 55887 110 33_Re: Fuzzy Math and the US Deficit0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 22:06:40 -0400411_us-ascii





----- Ahem, say Sam, could you lend me a mil or so

I do have a mil to lend you if you mean a mil the way they used to mean it in Israel - an agura

- I have my eye on an apartment in Israel. I'll only need the money for a few weeks - thats when my new friend in Nigeria is going to give me 10 Million, just for letting him use my bank account for a few hours. [...] 55998 179 13_Re: Bob Dylan11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:02:18 -0600422_us-ascii Well Noam, since you asked... yes, Nothing is sacred.

Someone should serve Dylan with papers for disturbing the peace. If you really love him, do the man a favor and shoot him before he records again. Perhaps he puts out dreck like his new one Modern Times just to see how slavish his fans will get. I guess this helps him not let the blind adulation from people with no taste go to his head. Sheesh! [...] 56178 326 11_Re: Loyalty13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:08:18 +0200502_us-ascii Actually Noam, I didn't receive Richard's message. Someone else on the Habonet had to forward it to me. I am still having problems receiving some of the stuff people send in ; hint-hint.

For what it's worth, I agree with your point of view that DC ought to have some kind of representation in Congress. I guess that, in order for that to happen, the Democrats would have to gain control since the Republicans would never agree to 2 more Dem senators. Is it a constitutional issue? [...] 56505 287 13_Re: Bob Dylan0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:28:56 -0400427_us-ascii Phil, lighten up....

1 - I like Modern Times....I guess it is a matter of taste.

2 - Saw`Dylan last April in the New Orleans at Jazzfest. Although he started a bit slow and a friend bailed, he finished really strong....another great transcendent Dylan moment...I have had many of them.

3 - He has been on the "Never Ending Tour" for years now. If you don't like his sound, just don't listen. [...] 56793 109 13_Re: Bob Dylan28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:35:36 -0400509_ISO-8859-1 On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:02:18 -0600, Phil Safier wrote:

>Well Noam, since you asked... yes, Nothing is sacred. > >Someone should serve Dylan with papers for disturbing the peace. If you >really love him, do the man a favor and shoot him before he records again. >Perhaps he puts out dreck like his new one Modern Times just to see how >slavish his fans will get. I guess this helps him not let the blind >adulation from people with no taste go to his head. Sheesh! > [...] 56903 340 34_Re: Bob Dylan All through the nigh0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:45:28 -0400544_us-ascii



Well Phil we all have our own taste, as Ken noted.

Every time I've seen Dylan over the course of many years it has been an entirely different show.

Bob Dylan has grown on me. I have just started listening to Modern Times but it currently is the best selling album in the world. Not bad for an old guy. My son Adi pointed out to me that Dylan is the hardest working musician in history doing 200 shows a year. Of course it is a little hard to be consistantly good when you work that hard. He also has [...] 57244 88 11_Re: Loyalty13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 07:55:23 -0700547_iso-8859-1 I say you have no loyalty to the US because you have voluntarily chosen to live somewhere else and become a citizen of another country. You can not be loyal to both and you obviously vote in American elections as an Israeli.

I don't need to be told who to register my opinions to. When someone does something I find morally repugnant I tell that person. And when they continue to do it and justify it by saying that its legal and others do it then I will continue telling them that what they are doing is morally repugnant. [...] 57333 130 13_Re: Bob Dylan11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:04:30 -0600295_us-ascii Come on guys. Fess up. If you walked into a bar and heard a cover band doing Dylan tunes the way Dylan does them, you'd laugh. If you'd paid a cover charge, you'd demand a refund.

For my money, Pat MacDonald of Timbuk3 runs rings around Dylan both poetically and musically. [...] 57464 130 29_Re: Bob Dylan--joe glazer z"l19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:32:18 -0500735_ISO-8859-1 morphing from bob to joe glazer: read his obit today in the washington post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/19/AR2006091901654.html

lisa mosh



>From: Noam Stopak >Date: 2006/09/20 Wed AM 08:35:36 CDT >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Bob Dylan

>On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:02:18 -0600, Phil Safier wrote: > >>Well Noam, since you asked... yes, Nothing is sacred. >> >>Someone should serve Dylan with papers for disturbing the peace. If you >>really love him, do the man a favor and shoot him before he records again. >>Perhaps he puts out dreck like his new one Modern Times just to see how >>slavish his fans [...] 57595 215 77_Fw: Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder-A Glimpse Into Israeli Collective Psychosis11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:36:55 -0700382_iso-8859-1 I read the articles.

Gilad is doubtful about the story that was disseminated concerning the Holocaust.

Gilad considers the Palestinians the last victims of whatever Holocaust incident might have occured.

There is other interesting reading within, and I can see why his view would appeal to some. I can also see why it wouldn't appeal to others. [...] 57811 573 13_Re: Bob Dylan11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 08:56:56 -0700518_iso-8859-1 In a televised biography of Dylan, there were many incidents of "borrowing" (stealing) that were shown. Start with the name. He liked the Dylan in Dylan Thomas, so he took it. He liked someone's guitar, he needed one, so he took it. He wanted to use a bunch of someone's Guthrie records, so he took 'em. I don't think there was any evil intent; I don't think he was built to understand this was wrong. Whenever confronted, he returned the items, except for the name. I am not aware he ever apologised. [...] 58385 570 14_Re: Liberalism11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 09:14:53 -0700543_iso-8859-1 Shawn

"Now ready"? You've been reading too much Sam.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Shawn Eli Barland To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 4:35 AM Subject: Re: Liberalism



Steve, It is quite gratifying to know that you agree with what I wrote. Welcome to the sensible forces of moderation. I am glad that you are now ready to accept at least some of the tenets of liberalism and condemn the extreme right wing policies of the Bush administration. Shawn [...] 58956 31 13_Re: bernstein12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:45:17 -0400 58988 162 29_Re: Bob Dylan--joe glazer z"l11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:46:23 -0400276_windows-1252 I remember him coming to Mosh for a tochnit erev when I was an amela or choteret. I had no idea who he was but everyone treated him with tremendous awe. It sounded like all the music my parents always listened to so I didn't know what the big deal was. Judy [...] 59151 1661 13_New Year Wish16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 15:01:19 -0700485_iso-8859-1 Wishing one and all A Shanah Tovah Shnat Shalom.



--------------------------------- Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 60813 78 17_Re: New Year Wish11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:01:51 -0400517_iso-8859-1 Amen! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rosalind Barland To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:01 PM Subject: New Year Wish



Wishing one and all A Shanah Tovah Shnat Shalom.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 60892 67 20_Where's our capital?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 06:29:16 +0200522_us-ascii All of us who have lived in or visited Israel have our own personal horror stories about bad translations from Hebrew into English but I think that this is a new low:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/jerusalem_dc

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 60960 179 17_Cracking the code13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:03:11 +0200385_us-ascii Can't say I'm real surprised about this. The intel officers were warning us for years that Hezbollah could listen in. I've seen their tracking towers for myself.

Jon

Hezbollah cracked the code Technology likely supplied by Iran allowed guerrillas to stop Israeli tank assaults Click here to find out more! BY MOHAMAD BAZZI Newsday Middle East Correspondent [...] 61140 55 24_Re: Where's our capital?14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 12:36:39 +0200450_iso-8859-1 Where's our capital?Road signs in English are horrible here. Sometimes letters are interchangable - Ashkelon;Ashqelon and a few other variants. But the best was a large sign on Highway 1 between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem for the airport: NATBAG NEXT EXIT. Natbag is the abbreviation for Namal Te'ufa Ben Gurion . Seems the sign makers never thought that tourists could not figure it out....Eventually it was replaced with a proper sign. [...] 61196 124 24_Re: Where's our capital?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 13:53:32 +0200685_us-ascii Ma'atz had some signs up on the Northern Road that read: "Stip Hill."

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Holtzer Family Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:37 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Where's our capital?



Road signs in English are horrible here. Sometimes letters are interchangable - Ashkelon;Ashqelon and a few other variants. But the best was a large sign on Highway 1 between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem for the airport: NATBAG NEXT EXIT. Natbag is the abbreviation for Namal Te'ufa Ben Gurion . Seems the sign makers never thought that tourists could not [...] 61321 191 24_Re: Where's our capital?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:04:18 -0400478_iso-8859-1 MessageHere in our capitol they have trouble too. My favorite was a sign on the 2 lane ramp that joined southbound I95 to the capitol beltway "right two lanes end"...

Sometimes they are just funny - approaching a notorious construction zone I came across "be prepared for sudden aggravation".

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Where's our capital? [...] 61513 26 24_Re: Where's our capital?12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 09:30:36 -0400 61540 51 24_Re: Where's our capital?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:56:25 -0700323_iso-8859-1 Clear evidence that the enemies of the Jewish people have infiltrated into the highest levels of municipal (if not higher!) governments in Israel in a well-coordinated plot to eliminate Israel from the world map. If they can't actually destroy the country, they can at least make it more difficult to find. [...] 61592 68 29_Re: Bob Dylan--joe glazer z"l0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:19:26 EDT473_US-ASCII I had the pleasure and honor of knowing Joe. He was always willing to play and sing for people - "send me a train ticket and I'll be there tomorrow" he would say about coming up from DC to NYC. In later years, his guitar was always just slightly out of tune, but his prodigious memory for lyrics and his enthusiasm were infectious. One of the last times I saw him was at one of our labor s'derim were he sang "Meny, Meny Tekel U'farsam." He'll be missed. Avi [...] 61661 122 45_Fwd: News from the Jewish Community in France0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 11:34:36 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 61784 94 24_Re: Where's our capital?16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:18:01 -0400436_iso-8859-1 A favorite of mine, which I used to see, is the "Scarified Pavement" sign that "ma'atz" would put up whenever they were in the middle of repaving a road. Makes you wonder what exactly they doing to that stretch of road.

Avi Rosenberg

Original Message: ----------------- From: Noam Stopak nstopak@STARPOWER.NET Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2006 07:04:18 -0400 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Where's our capital? [...] 61879 60 24_Re: Where's our capital?0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:35:00 EDT308_US-ASCII Reminds me of an Israeli friend of mine who moved to California in the early 80's. She thought that Menachem Begin must be a very popular guy because she kept seeing road signs that read "Begin Highway'. * She also used to think Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco was called Fisherman's Dwarf. [...] 61940 25 24_Re: Where's our capital?12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 15:57:26 -0400 61966 26 34_progressive shul in San Francisco?28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:58:44 -0400540_ISO-8859-1 Hi,

My daughter recently moved to San Francisco and is looking for a progressive shul where she might be able to go for Rosh Hashanah etc on short notice. Any suggestions from chevre on the list?

Thanks!

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 61993 43 38_Re: progressive shul in San Francisco?19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 17:54:15 -0500770_ISO-8859-1 noam, ask caren appel--didn't she just come from there?





>From: Noam Stopak >Date: 2006/09/21 Thu PM 03:58:44 CDT >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: progressive shul in San Francisco?

>Hi, > >My daughter recently moved to San Francisco and is looking for a progressive >shul where she might be able to go for Rosh Hashanah etc on short notice. >Any suggestions from chevre on the list? > >Thanks! > >Noam > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and >an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > [...] 62037 61 38_Re: progressive shul in San Francisco?16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 16:34:39 -0700616_US-ASCII Michael Lerner's bey Tikkun, Kehilla synagogue in Oakland/Piedmont- Linda On Thursday, September 21, 2006, at 03:54 PM, lfmarsh@verizon.net wrote:

> noam, ask caren appel--didn't she just come from there? > > > >> From: Noam Stopak >> Date: 2006/09/21 Thu PM 03:58:44 CDT >> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >> Subject: progressive shul in San Francisco? > >> Hi, >> >> My daughter recently moved to San Francisco and is looking for a >> progressive >> shul where she might be able to go for Rosh Hashanah etc on short >> notice. >> Any suggestions from chevre on the list? >> >> [...] 62099 50 38_Re: progressive shul in San Francisco?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 19:42:04 -0400376_us-ascii Or Shalom Community is Jewish Renewal and is where I go. There is Saha Zahav which caters to the Gay community which is also not main stream. There is also something that was posted a few days ago about "alternative" services, but I'm not sure about that. She can also check out this place: www.rabbinathan.com and follow the link to information about services. [...] 62150 272 50_was progressive shul in San Francisco (SHANA TOVA)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 20:40:11 -0400396_us-ascii Hi Folks:

Coincidentally, I am at the San Francisco airport to take a flight home to NY for Rosh Hashana and catching up on the day's email and I see that the Habonet nasty arguments have subsided and we are joking about English Israeli signs and finding a shul for Noam's daughter here in the city by the bay. Happy to see the turn in tone, especially at this time of year. [...] 62423 32 17_Re: New Year Wish12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 21 Sep 2006 23:21:58 -0400635_ISO-8859-1 What he said!

Noam Stopak wrote: > Amen! > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Rosalind Barland > *To:* HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2006 6:01 PM > *Subject:* New Year Wish > > Wishing one and all > A Shanah Tovah > Shnat Shalom.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 62456 278 24_Road show, Israeli style16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 04:09:16 -0700564_iso-8859-1 Sometimes, a simple drive on a highway in the Jewish State is all is takes to restore perspective, to revive hope. A road, its exits, the places to which they lead and the history they recall – and you suddenly find yourself with faith in the future restored. If only all of us could take those drives. For especially light of these past months of grief and of disappointment, of coming to terms with the war that we lost (as a senior IDF general admitted publicly yesterday), what we need is perspective, a reminder of where the Jewish people was [...] 62735 40 12_Rosh Hashana11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:19:51 EDT426_US-ASCII L'shana tova to everyone. May the new year bring peace to all of us......peace in the world and peace of mind. Sylvia

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 62776 25 16_Re: Rosh Hashana12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:53:09 -0400 62802 45 14_Two New Year's12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:42:14 -0400 62848 173 46_Forward - Conservatives Vote Down Labor Issues16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:36:03 -0400396_ISO-8859-1 Paper on Labor Issues Falls Short in Conservative Vote

Rebecca Spence | Fri. Sep 22, 2006

A rabbinic opinion calling on Jewish business owners to pay their workers a living wage and hire union employees was stymied by the Conservative movement's top lawmaking body after the opinion received fewer than the minimum number of votes needed for a paper to be approved. [...] 63022 695 44_[QUAR] "Living Wage: Mandate Of Jewish Law?"16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 11:25:11 -0400713_us-ascii

SOURCE http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=12990

Living Wage: Mandate Of Jewish Law? N.Y. rabbi presses hot economic issue before Conservative movement's religious law committee. James D. Besser - Washington Correspondent New York Jewish Week / 9-22-2006



Rabbi Jill Jacobs: Jewish legal opinion runs to 53 pages. The headlines are all about Conservative Judaism's internal battle over gay and lesbian rabbis. But in the movement's innermost sanctums, a New York rabbi is waging a much less visible but no less focused battle to convince the movement to take a moral stand on one of the nation's top economic issues -- the living wage, or requiring [...] 63718 95 45_Fw: [House-of-humor] Fw: nostalgia from Heinz11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:25:14 -0700806_iso-8859-1

Very little Jewish or political. Just for those of us that are old enough to remeber this stuff.

Steve













http://objflicks.com/WhenLifewasInBlack&White.htm



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



_______________________________________________ House-of-humor mailing list House-of-humor@lists.sonic.net http://lists.sonic.net/mailman/listinfo/house-of-humor

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 63814 86 38_Re: progressive shul in San Francisco?19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Sat, 23 Sep 2006 02:41:15 -0400 63901 137 50_Re: Forward - Conservatives Vote Down Labor Issues12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 23 Sep 2006 08:58:32 -0400 64039 135 20_Rebuilding The Army?12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 23 Sep 2006 12:15:05 -0400 64175 69 24_Re: Rebuilding The Army?16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:19:27 -0700612_iso-8859-1 I hope it happens before the "Messiah" comes. I am not too hopeful this Rosh Hashanah.

amnon hadari wrote: Roz, Gordis wrote But this war was only one battle in the long campaign for Jewish survival. For even if we lost the war, what matters on the eve of Rosh Hashanah is perspective. As the new Jewish year begins, and as Jews across the globe prepare to celebrate Rosh Ha-Shanah, we've got much reason for concern. An army desperately needs to be rebuilt. A country urgently needs visionary leadership. My perspective is that unlike many countries that have an [...] 64245 44 24_Re: Rebuilding The Army?11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Sat, 23 Sep 2006 14:55:04 EDT554_US-ASCII L'Shana, Amnon, I really liked your last comments....I too will be a poll watcher (been doing this for over 30 years). Please may I ask you a favor.....send Slavia & Shaul Ben David my love and and wish thwem a l'shana tova for me. Thanks Sylvia

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 64290 26 24_Re: Rebuilding The Army?12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:37:28 -0400 64317 119 19_Nasrallah's Malaise13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 07:55:49 +0200457_us-ascii Nasrallah's Malaise By Ehud Yaari Jerusalem Report, October 2, 2006

Hassan Nasrallah is showing clear signs of "dejection, melancholy and depression," according to the editors of the Lebanese daily al-Safir, who are counted among the most steadfast supporters of the leader of Hizballah. Alongside a tiresomely long interview with him, published on September 5, they note that the man radiates a sense of "disappointment and distress." [...] 64437 1019 21_Getting Lebanon Wrong13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:11:48 +0200389_us-ascii I don't usually send in postings from blogs but this insightful interview with Yaacov Lozowick has caused me - temporarily anyway - to reconsider. I think Lozowick comprehensively expresses the consensus and resulting anger and frustration of the Jewish public here. He is interviewed by Middle East blogger Michael J. Totten, who I ran into during the war in Kiryat Shmona. [...] 65457 41 26_Conservatives & conscience16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 06:03:44 -0400593_ISO-8859-1 Amnon, Most of my friends--including many Habonim survivors--pay quite a premium for their Jewish lives. Sending kids to Jewish day schools is no small expense. Keeping a kosher home is outrageously expensive (just go to the grocery store and compare the prices of treif foodstuffs.) So at least if we're willing to pay that premium because we think that there is some intrinsic value, then we have a right to expect that value to be included in the product. In the case of kosher meat it isn't enough merely that the laws of ritual slaghter (and hopefully, compassion for the [...] 65499 49 23_Re: Nasrallah's Malaise11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 09:41:47 -0400663_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Baum" To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:55 AM Subject: Nasrallah's Malaise



> Nasrallah's Malaise > By Ehud Yaari > Jerusalem Report, October 2, 2006 > > Hassan Nasrallah is showing clear signs of "dejection, melancholy and > depression," according to the editors of the Lebanese daily al-Safir, ... > ... > Nasrallah is now forced to rely more than he would like on his > partner/rival > in the Shiite sector, Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri, a sleek and shrewd > politician who heads the more secular "Amal." Nasrallah has suddenly taken [...] 65549 18 13_Rosh Hashanah12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:11:27 -0400 65568 69 23_Re: Nasrallah's Malaise13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:05:01 +0200491_us-ascii Yes, assuming he can get the gelt from the Iranians.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 3:42 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Nasrallah's Malaise



----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Baum" To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 1:55 AM Subject: Nasrallah's Malaise [...] 65638 25 23_Re: Nasrallah's Malaise14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 17:38:49 +0200394_iso-8859-1 Nasrallah doesn't seem to be having any trouble getting "gelt" from Iran. Hezbollah has been handing out $15,000 cash to any and all who had their homes damaged, both in Beirut and Southern Lebanon. A great vote getter for the next elections. Meanwhile, the Lebanese government has been doing practically nothing in aid to rebuild homes. They are busy with the infrastructures. [...] 65664 52 23_Re: Nasrallah's Malaise11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:54:54 -0400606_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Holtzer Family" To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Nasrallah's Malaise



> Nasrallah doesn't seem to be having any trouble getting "gelt" from Iran. > Hezbollah has been handing out $15,000 cash to any and all who had their > homes damaged, both in Beirut and Southern Lebanon. A great vote getter > for the next elections. Meanwhile, the Lebanese government has been doing > practically nothing in aid to rebuild homes. They are busy with the > infrastructures. > > Dave [...] 65717 22 23_Re: Nasrallah's Malaise14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 18:09:28 +0200505_iso-8859-1 I mostly get info from the tv and newspapers, but there was also some talk that people on the streets of Iran are getting pissed off that they are financially supporting Lebanon.....

Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 65740 426 21_Re: Cracking the code17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:21:20 -0500603_us-ascii Jon, I found this article disturbing. The situation it describes is far outside of my knowledge base, but if true it is quite worrisome. I forwarded the article to a friend who has extensive experience in Israeli armor and in Lebanon and he sent me the following response. I can only hope that he is right. */This is bull. Hizbollah has exaggerated Israeli tank losses to emphasize their tactical abilities that were really non-existent. Even in my time in the army the Israeli's used coded devices that changed frequencies 25 times a minute. In addition Israeli tank losses were minimal. [...] 66167 1800 21_[QUAR] Fw: Shana Tova11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 23 Sep 2006 07:28:56 -0700743_iso-8859-1























Shana Tova ! We wish you a Happy, Healthy and Successful New Year.

May the sun shine upon you all the year long and may you be inscribed in the Book of Life.







Love





Steve and Marcia

























------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 67968 845 21_Re: Cracking the code13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:42:19 +0200569_us-ascii Shawn, in truth we - the general public, that is - may never know. Anything that has to do with communications codes and frequencies is highly classified in the IDF. I showed the article to a guy here at Sasa who did his regular and reserve service in Northern Command signals and his feeling was that it was possible. There are also known incidents of officers using their cell phones during the fighting. From my personal experience of years serving along the border here (and I am not, I should note, a signals expert) our commsec is terrible. We Jews [...] 68814 88 24_Fw: Check out "Skidboot"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 13:50:12 -0700288_iso-8859-1

Every once in the thousands of e-mail pieces that go back and forth, there is a special piece that warms the heart. This one may go up in your top ten- or nowhere at all. It is lengthy, so if you do not have the time for simple "human interest", don't ven starat. [...] 68903 180 11_Re: Loyalty11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 24 Sep 2006 22:56:47 -0400358_iso-8859-1 MessageHi Jon,

Sorry to be so slow getting back to you on this.

I still don't have any clue why you don't get some messages, but methinks it is probably related to your new ISP and spam filtering issues. If the messages get out to other list members, and if you get some list traffic, then I don't think it is a listserv issue. [...] 69084 146 11_Lebanon Two28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter20_habesor@SMILE.NET.IL31_Mon, 25 Sep 2006 09:22:56 +0200555_iso-8859-1 A few weeks before the Second Lebanese war broke out, I was on a tour of the Jerusalem area. The focus of our excursion was the 1948 war and our first stop was the hill and church of Nebi Samuel. In 1948 the Palmach made an unsuccessful attack on the position, which resulted in many casualties. The elevated site has a clear overview of Jerusalem and the Arab Legion used it as an artillery base to shell the Jewish neighborhoods. I was reminded of the military failure at Nebi Samuel as well as other failures in the War of Independence [...] 69231 212 15_Re: Lebanon Two11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:34:32 -0700455_iso-8859-1 Michal and Efraim

Thank you for helping breathe some sanity and perspective into the aftermath of the recent battle for Israel's precarious and complicated survival. Your letter will be well-disseminated here.

Grateful

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Michal and Efraim Perlmutter" To: Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:22 AM Subject: Lebanon Two [...] 69444 488 69_JTA - Making the synagogue a home:
Rethinking the mission of shuls0_13_jlcaa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 25 Sep 2006 12:40:17 -0400381_iso-8859-1 If things are so great, why are things so bad. Avi _____



Following is an article from JTA — The Global News Service of the Jewish People. For in-depth coverage of the latest developments affecting Jews all over the world, click: www.jta.org

Making the synagogue a home:
Rethinking the mission of shuls By: Sue Fishkoff [...] 69933 28 26_Re: DC Vote (Was: Loyalty)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:33:41 -0400445_us-ascii Noam,

Under the Constitution, only states can send Representatives and Senators to Congress, and Congress has the exclusive power to admit new states to the Union.

Many DC politicians are touting the Davis bill, which would grant DC a Representative and Utah an extra Representative* until the next census and then provide a permanent DC Representative thereafter. Davis is a Republican Congressmember from Virginia. [...] 69962 133 31_Fwd: Re: DC Vote (Was: Loyalty)13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:58:31 -0700531_iso-8859-1



Note: forwarded message attached.





test'; ">

--------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

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70096 72 26_Re: DC Vote (Was: Loyalty)11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 25 Sep 2006 23:05:00 -0400442_iso-8859-1 Ah yes, article 4, section 3. It's not that long a document. Worth reading every year or two just to stay fresh. Never know when it might come in handy :-)

Your point about the Davis bill failing constitutional muster is exactly correct, which is why we need true statehood.

And no Richard, I don't favor retrocession even though it would help boot Erlich (assuming it were implemented within the next 6 weeks). [...] 70169 95 26_Re: DC Vote (Was: Loyalty)13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 26 Sep 2006 07:15:57 +0200404_us-ascii Maybe you could elect Danny Snider. Does he live in DC?

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 5:05 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: DC Vote (Was: Loyalty)



Ah yes, article 4, section 3. It's not that long a document. Worth reading [...] 70265 34 24_humor - oldie but goodie28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:24:39 -0400384_ISO-8859-1 It was Rosh Hashanah morning, and the Rabbi noticed little Adam was staring up at the large plaque that hung in the foyer of the synagogue. It was covered with names, with small American flags mounted on either side. The seven-year old had been staring at the plaque for some time, so the Rabbi walked up, stood beside the boy, and said quietly, "Good morning, Adam." [...] 70300 191 12_For Jon Baum0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:57:38 -0400407_us-ascii

Jon an exchange of e mails between myself and my son Adi who works for a Zionist youth movement. Note that he directs me to a video on U Tube of Chis Wallace interviewing Bill Clinton. I thought Jon you might find this intersting because Mr. Clinton specifically mentions Richad Clarke by name and seems to think he has something more to him than someone who is trying to sell a book. [...] 70492 293 22_The Left and the Jihad13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 28 Sep 2006 14:23:08 +0200514_ISO-8859-1 The Left and the Jihad Fred Halliday 8 - 9 - 2006 The left was once the principal enemy of radical Islamism. So how did old enemies become new friends? Fred Halliday reports. ------------------------------------------

The approaching fifth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on the United States highlights an issue much in evidence in the world today, but one that receives too little historically-informed and critical analysis: the relationship between militant Islamic groups and the left. [...] 70786 134 12_Fw: Calmness11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 28 Sep 2006 06:30:34 -0700458_iso-8859-1

And in the spirit of the new year:









Calmness in our lives

I am passing this on to you because it definitely works, and we could all Use a little more calmness in our lives.

By following simple advice heard on the Dr. Phil show, you too can find Inner peace.

Dr. Phil proclaimed, "The way to achieve inner peace is to finish all the things you've started and never finished." [...] 70921 74 18_Religious dialogue13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:13:29 +0200539_us-ascii Probably not what you should watch Erev Yom Kippur but what the heck:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3JC9ssiBU8

Easy fasts everyone who does.

Jon

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 70996 63 28_Johnny Mathis does Kol Nidre13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:22:37 +0200460_us-ascii Jewish culture by way of album covers. Who knew?

http://hippocampusmusic.com/LPs/

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 71060 48 32_Re: Johnny Mathis does Kol Nidre11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:33:36 -0400549_ISO-8859-1 One of my outstanding Workshop memories is that an older American-born women from Chicago (Judy) invited us back to her room to listen to a recording of Eddie Cantor singing Kol Nidre and to have some chocolate cake. It was really a lovely gesture for her to reach out to us,, but at the time chocolate cake and Kol Nidre seemed to me like putting pickled pigs feet on the seder plate so I didn't go. The next day in the morning we were put to work cleaning out the shelters, which seems so un-Yontifdik that I just couldn't believe [...] 71109 29 9_labor day11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 29 Sep 2006 16:55:42 -0600372_us-ascii Dear Jewish People,

Please answer me this... If a woman gives birth on shabbat, has she sinned and will G_d turn over in H_s grave?

Also, shouldn't we stop using Arabic numerals until they mend their evil ways? If Roman numerals were good enough for Sid Caesar, they're good enough for me. For instance, I like LXIX a lot, except on Labor Day. [...] 71139 61 21_No Excuses for Terror13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sat, 30 Sep 2006 04:26:28 +0200460_us-ascii http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2006/09/27/youtube_no_excuses_for _terror.php

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 71201 61 31_re Johnny Mathis does Kol Nidre11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:48:12 +0400551_windows-1255 You shoud check out First Opera Recordings 1895-1902 a Survey

http://www.amazon.com/First-Opera-Recordings-1895-1902-Survey/dp/B00006IRLK/sr=1-21/qid=1159609366/ref=sr_1_21/102-9075228-5490549?ie=UTF8&s=music#moreAboutThisProduct

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71263 65 9_Education13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sat, 30 Sep 2006 18:20:00 +0200525_us-ascii Some very amusing instructional lectures from Kupat Holim Clallit. Sorry, only in Hebrew:

http://www.clalit20plus.co.il/clalit/sex/index1.asp?id=5

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 71329 39 12_(no subject)11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Sat, 30 Sep 2006 22:20:56 EDT457_US-ASCII To all who fast, may you have an easy fast and again, l'shana tova to all......Sylvia

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