1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet August 2006 2 2197 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 30 Jul 2006 to 31 Jul 2006 (#2006-204)11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 00:10:33 -0400558_iso-8859-1 Re: the war

Agreed. Sadly, it appears the Israeli government has been taking lessons from the Bush administration on foreign policy-- i.e. disproportionate responses when provoked. I don't blame the Arab world for hating Israel. However, I wish they would just hate the Israeli government, and not Israel and its civilians themselves. That's pretty much how I feel right now about it. Conversely, instead of simply hating the fundamentalist Muslim governments that brainwash its citizens, much of the Western world hates Muslims. Sad. [...] 2200 73 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]14_Paul Fingerman29_paul.fingerman@MINDSPRING.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 21:52:55 -0700692_us-ascii Sue,

They are Microsoft PowerPoint slide shows -- each is a set of about a dozen or more different images. If you don't have PowerPoint, you can get a free PowerPoint Viewer by downloading from Microsoft @ microsoft.com:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=428d5727-43ab-4f24-90b7-a94784af71a4&DisplayLang=en

For Microsoft Windows only (not available for Mac, as far as I know.

Paul

At 07:54 PM 7/31/2006, you wrote: >Judy- all I get is gibberish- any chance we can get >them sent ina joeg format?--sue > >--- Judy Gelman wrote: > > > These were sent to me by a friend from Haifa. I > > thought some of [...] 2274 114 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:13:44 -0700685_iso-8859-1 I have a MAC, but I have Office and can access powerpoint...but when I click on the link, it downloads as gibberish- it doesn't download as a file--any suggestions?--sue

--- Paul Fingerman wrote:

> Sue, > > They are Microsoft PowerPoint slide shows -- each is > a set of about a > dozen or more different images. If you don't have > PowerPoint, you > can get a free PowerPoint Viewer by downloading from > Microsoft @ microsoft.com: > > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=428d5727-43ab-4f24-90b7-a94784af71a4&DisplayLang=en > > For Microsoft Windows only (not available for Mac, > as far as I know. > [...] 2389 283 26_Response to David M., etc.12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:48:32 +0300627_windows-1255



I can identify you're charges of 'Orwellian,' David, only to the extent that the buffer zone between rallying national spirit in a time of true crisis (do you not agree that there is such a thing?) and fascist demagoguery, is nanometers wide.

The question, in my opinion, is how to reconcile humanist values with a grim military reality, and how to cut through the newspeak to differentiate between military necessity (which I would define as pursuing those who do not seek peace – for Hizbollah apologists, let's use the example of al-Qaeda) and the rhetoric of the militarized state. [...] 2673 86 30_Re: Response to David M., etc.0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 06:23:44 EDT402_US-ASCII

Very well said.

Sam

In a message dated 08/01/2006 4:50:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET writes:

I can identify you're charges of 'Orwellian,' David, only to the extent that the buffer zone between rallying national spirit in a time of true crisis (do you not agree that there is such a thing?) and fascist demagoguery, is nanometers wide. [...] 2760 26 21_Question about naming11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 07:09:12 -0400609_ISO-8859-1 I have noticed that all the prayers for the kidnapped soldiers are "first name ben/bat mother's name". Gilad ben Aviva, Ehud ben Malka, Eldad ben Tova.

Could someone explain this to me? Why is the mother's name, not the father's, used? Are there other times this is done?

Thanks- Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 2787 59 25_Re: Question about naming8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 14:54:26 +0200522_us-ascii Judy, I know that this is done when praying for someone who is sick :

"During the eighth blessing, for healing, many siddurim (prayer books) include a prayer that asks God to heal a specific person and has a place to insert the name of anyone who is sick. This is done by saying the person's Hebrew name, then "ben" (son of) or "bat" (daughter of), and then his or her mother's name (for example, Joseph ben Sarah or Miriam bat Sarah)." http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/amidah.html [...] 2847 144 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]14_Paul Fingerman29_paul.fingerman@MINDSPRING.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 05:12:54 -0700410_us-ascii Depending on what browser you are using (I'm pretty ignorant of Macs, and especially of Safari), it may not know that PowerPoint is the right application to use to open a .PPS file. I know that Macs are pretty smart about choosing the right application, but I don't know about Mac browsers, and .PPS is not a common file type. Can you save the file to your local disk, and then open it properly? [...] 2992 165 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]12_Alix Hammond21_ahammond8@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:12:20 -0400670_- You can try http://www.yousendit.com/ for file transferring. The file can be as large as 1 gb and it's free.

Alix Hammond Mosh 1973-1978



>From: Paul Fingerman >Reply-To: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from >the war in Haifa] >Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 05:12:54 -0700 > >Depending on what browser you are using (I'm pretty ignorant of Macs, and >especially of Safari), it may not know that PowerPoint is the right >application to use to open a .PPS file. I know that Macs are pretty smart [...] 3158 160 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]14_Paul Fingerman29_paul.fingerman@MINDSPRING.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 06:22:41 -0700590_us-ascii I did think of a place where I can host one or two of the PDF files at a time. If you're having trouble with the PPS format, try

http://paul.fingerman.home.mindspring.com

Paul

At 05:12 AM 8/1/2006, you wrote: >Depending on what browser you are using (I'm pretty ignorant of >Macs, and especially of Safari), it may not know that PowerPoint is >the right application to use to open a .PPS file. I know that Macs >are pretty smart about choosing the right application, but I don't >know about Mac browsers, and .PPS is not a common file type. Can >you save [...] 3319 218 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 07:12:32 -0700424_iso-8859-1 I would appreciate it if you could convert them- My problem is that they do not download as a file, but as gibberish language (if it were a file, I could open it in powerpoint-I have done that before with emails from Steve)....I had a weird thing happen the other day- had to dowload pictures from GH, and Firefox wouldn't work, but safari did!...but figuring it all out took a good 1/2 hour!!...Thanks- sue [...] 3538 18 25_Re: Question about naming12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:26:34 -0400 3557 55 11_Re: the war13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:11:39 -0700461_iso-8859-1 I don't pretend to know what to do but I do know that continuing to do the wrong thing is usually a bad idea.

The reason I suggested that the present policy isn't hurting Hezbollah militarily is because they continue to shoot rockets into Israel.

Noam Stopak wrote: Not sure about the military effect, but the rest sounds about right. So given that analysis, what do you suggest as an alternative strategy? [...] 3613 24 33_Gibson: 'I am not an anti-Semite'11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 12:17:49 -0700485_us-ascii http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/08/01/gibson.dui/index.html

Ya, right....

Batel

Batel

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 3638 293 21_Mel Gibson's Meltdown0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 16:06:37 EDT636_ISO-8859-1 Article URL: http://www.slate.com/id/2146880/

SLATE fighting words By Christopher Hitchens Posted Monday, July 31, 2006, at 2:09 PM ET

I was just in the middle of writing a long and tedious essay, about how to tell a real anti-Semite from a person who too-loudly rejects the charge of anti-Semitism, when a near-perfect real-life example came to hand. That bad actor and worse director Mel Gibson, pulled over for the alleged offense of speeding and the further alleged offense of speeding under the influence, decided that he needed to demand of the arresting officer whether he was or was not Jewish and [...] 3932 26 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 18:05:45 -0400587_us-ascii > Judy- all I get is gibberish- any chance we can get > them sent ina joeg format?--sue

I'll post them to my website in jpg format tonight.

They're much too big to send via e-mail, unless somebody wants to shrink them. (I kept them the original size.)

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 3959 105 12_Article- FYI12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 16:56:26 -0700593_iso-8859-1



FIRST PERSON Summer youth trips to Israel survive, but should have shone, says activist By David Bryfman

HAIFA, Israel, July 31 (JTA) -- I'm standing on the top deck of a cruise ship as we make our way into the port of Haifa from Cyprus. Looking out on the deck below, I watch 600 young Jews dancing to the sounds of Israeli music as the image of the Bahai Temple perched on the mountainside grows larger and larger. This is the summer program group from the North American Federation of Temple Youth. They're not only sailing into Haifa but culminating [...] 4065 106 11_Re: the war11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:14:23 -0400550_iso-8859-1 It seems more and more there are no good choices, so it often is a matter of which is less bad or wrong.

Heard horror stories from a friend who was just in Greece. Dead baby posters all over Athens - not from Darfur or Sri Lanka either. Bombing McDonalds and Starbucks. I'd almost smile at those choices, but it isn't really funny. He said it was a good time to have a maple leaf tee shirt... ----- Original Message ----- From: richard smith To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:11 PM Subject: Re: the war [...] 4172 31 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 21:56:12 -0400658_ISO-8859-1 The three PowerPoint documents are available as jpg images in:

http://dfleiss.home.pipeline.com/rocketsinhaifa1/

http://dfleiss.home.pipeline.com/rocketsinhaifa2/

http://dfleiss.home.pipeline.com/rocketsinhaifa6/

You can view any slide by clicking on it (Slide1.jpg) or download it by right-clicking on it.

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4204 167 11_indigestion11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 22:29:55 -0400303_iso-8859-1 Dear Jessie,

I found this in the Shamash help in their FAQ for the transition to the new listserv software they did a while back. Can you experiment with these settings and let me know if it helps? If it doesn't make any sense to you, let me know that too and I'll try to assist. [...] 4372 58 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 1 Aug 2006 20:53:16 -0700772_iso-8859-1 Thanks david- I had gotten the first bunch actually from U of Haifa media people ( we are involved with them)...but not the rest--tahnks again- sue

--- David Fleiss wrote:

> The three PowerPoint documents are available as jpg > images in: > > http://dfleiss.home.pipeline.com/rocketsinhaifa1/ > > http://dfleiss.home.pipeline.com/rocketsinhaifa2/ > > http://dfleiss.home.pipeline.com/rocketsinhaifa6/ > > You can view any slide by clicking on it > (Slide1.jpg) or download it by > right-clicking on it. > > David > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which [...] 4431 60 41_Peacekeepers are not peacemakers/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 04:52:30 -0700745_iso-8859-1 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/02/opinion/02soderberg.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Op-Ed Contributor Peacekeepers Are Not Peacemakers By NANCY SODERBERG Jacksonville, Fla. AS the death tolls in Lebanon and Israel rise, calls for a robust international peacekeeping force are increasing. But history should serve as warning. As we all know, the United States and France learned the cost of a poorly planned presence in 1983 when Hezbollah suicide bombers blew up their barracks, killing 300 troops. More to the point, there has been a peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon since 1978 (paradoxically named the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon, or Unifil) charged with confirming Israel’s withdrawal from Lebanon, restoring [...] 4492 57 33_Lebanon's Force for Good/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 04:54:41 -0700700_iso-8859-1 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/02/opinion/02waldman.html

Op-Ed Contributor Lebanon’s Force for Good By ADIR GURION WALDMAN IN the summer of 1998, I was an infantry soldier in the Israel Defense Forces. Preparing for an operation in southern Lebanon, my platoon received some unusual orders: no one, under any circumstance, was to open fire. This was a significant departure from our standard rules of engagement, which permitted firing upon sight at Hezbollah forces. The apparent reason was that representatives of the United States, France, Israel, Lebanon and Syria were in the area that day for a meeting of the Israel-Lebanon Monitoring Group. Today, Israeli soldiers are [...] 4550 104 59_Lebanon II: The first war run by Peace Now/ Bradley Burston16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 05:34:11 -0700416_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745601.html

Lebanon II: The first war run by Peace Now By Bradley Burston

It was opposition to a war in Lebanon that made Israelis first sit up and take notice of Peace Now.

Now, nearly a quarter of a century later, some of the founders of Peace Now find themselves again consumed by Lebanon - but this time, they are running their first war. [...] 4655 215 53_Fw: Lebanese website blames Hizbullah for Qana deaths11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:05:11 -0700589_Windows-1252

The URL is in French.

Steve







Lebanese website blames Hizbullah for Qana Village deaths IMRA: For site original article in French: http://www.libanoscopie.com/FullDoc.asp?DocCode=994&Cat=2

Anti-Syrian elements in Lebanon openly point a finger at Hizbollah as guilty of killing of dozens of civilians in order to curtail plans for disarming the group. "Hizbollah has placed rocket launcher on building's roof and brought invalid children inside in bid to provoke Israeli response," Roee Nahmias writes—YNET 1 August 2006 [...] 4871 372 36_Fw: This Is How CNN 'Makes' The News11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:22:45 -0700520_iso-8859-1





For all you CNN fans, here is an interesting exchange.

Steve

________________________________





The press has great power for good and bad. When that power is abused, it can be very dangerous.



Below you will find a case of CNN trying to 'make' the news fit your editorial policy. As an editorial, you are free to say whatever you want as long as you label it as such. But when you try to 'make' the news, you've crossed the line. [...] 5244 526 75_Fw: Hezbollywood? Evidence mounts that Qana collapse and deaths were staged11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:44:39 -0700712_iso-8859-1

For those that may have missed this. Steve





Hezbollywood? Evidence mounts that Qana collapse and deaths were staged

By Reuven Koret-July 31, 2006

http://www.israelnetdaily.com/redir.php?headline=94488

It was to be a perfect Hollywood ending for Hezbollah. Just as the Israeli bombing of the village of Qana in 1996 brought a premature end to Israel's Operation "Grapes of Wrath," so too a sequel of Qana II could change, once and for all, the direction of Israel's current summer blockbuster, "Change of Direction." Ten years ago, world condemnation of an errant Israeli shell that hit a civilian compound forced then-PM Shimon Peres to curtail [...] 5771 409 43_Fw: Germany stops all arms sales to Israel!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 08:47:43 -0700526_windows-1255 Received from a friend in Israel.

Steve







Subject: FW: Germany stops all arms sales to Israel!



Important, please read!!

Several weeks ago, Germany announced its decision to stop all arms sales to Israel. Since then, other countries have followed suit. In response, Israel has canceled its annual multimillion dollar contract for its nationwide DAN buses which were manufactured in Germany, and is looking at other bus suppliers in the US, and Japan. [...] 6181 320 51_Fw: Fw: Fwd: Who undermined Lebanon's Sovereignty ?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:11:07 -0700472_iso-8859-1







Steve sent:

Who undermined Lebanon's Sovereignty?

Here is another reason to love the UN and Kofi Annan! WORTH A LOOK!........

Who undermined Lebanon 's Sovereignty? You got it ! United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan



In this picture taken in Beirut in 2000, Kofi Annan is thanking Nasrallah, head of the terror group Hezbollah for Maintaining law and order in the south of Lebanon . [...] 6502 105 5_Esris11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 09:20:40 -0700641_iso-8859-1 > Sadly, it appears the Israeli government has been taking lessons > from the Bush administration on foreign policy-- i.e. disproportionate > responses when provoked. I don't blame the Arab world for hating Israel.









Dear J. Esris.

I have been trying to do an informal investigation of the set of circumstances that have to exist for someone to be born Jewish and arrive at ideas such as you expressed above. This is not an attack on your ideas. I am dead serious about this. What newspapers did your parents read, what music was in the house? What life-changing experiences, etc. [...] 6608 41 9_Re: Esris12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 12:43:02 -0400397_us-ascii Steve,

This is not the first time that you have attacked people with whom you disagree by questioning their upbringing and Jewish heritage.

It is downright disgusting. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.

Were you raised by Roy Cohn and Joseph McCarthy?

Or were you raised by decent, loving people, but somehow you just turned out ugly and mean-spirited? [...] 6650 113 9_Re: Esris0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 13:17:46 EDT425_US-ASCII

Steve,

Actually the sad & scarey thing is that you really are 'dead serious'. Perhaps you should first run these by Mel Gibson before unloading them on the list.

marc

> Sadly, it appears the Israeli government has been taking lessons > from the Bush administration on foreign policy-- i.e. disproportionate > responses when provoked. I don't blame the Arab world for hating Israel. [...] 6764 1742 36_Fw: ADL Response to Arms Sales Rumor11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:41:11 -0700507_UTF-8 AOL Email ----- Original Message ----- From: HowardS@aol.com To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 9:09 AM Subject: ADL Response to Arms Sales Rumor This is the latest I could find on the subject (rather, it found me.) Snopes didn't provide me with a confirmation either way.

Steve



































SUBSCRIBE TO ADL'S ONLINE NEWSLETTERS [...] 8507 108 9_Re: Esris11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:54:45 -0600379_us-ascii Dear St. Steven,

Please elaborate on your own upbringing. Didn't you attend Catholic school or have some other formative Christian influences? And if so, maybe you could connect this to your jingoistic tendencies vis-a-vis both the US and Israel, not to mention your penchant for wrapping folks on the knuckles when they espouse a view contrary to your own. [...] 8616 85 9_Re: Esris13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:00:17 -0700414_iso-8859-1 I am shocked, shocked, that David would disparage such comparatively nice people like Cohn and McCarthy with such a hate monger.

David Fleiss wrote: Steve,

This is not the first time that you have attacked people with whom you disagree by questioning their upbringing and Jewish heritage.

It is downright disgusting. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. [...] 8702 31 42_Fw: SUNBREAK CITY: Jihad murder in Seattle11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 11:14:27 -0700540_iso-8859-1 Please note the congressman's take on the attack:

Steve





> Blog: SUNBREAK CITY > Post: Jihad murder in Seattle > Link: http://sunbreak.blogspot.com/2006/07/jihad-murder-in-seattle.html > > --

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8734 67 46_Re: Fw: SUNBREAK CITY: Jihad murder in Seattle0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 16:13:55 EDT425_ISO-8859-1 In a message dated 8/2/06 11:13:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:

> http://sunbreak.blogspot.com/2006/07/jihad-murder-in-seattle.html

There is so much incorrect basic information here, I can't even begin to respond. My fingers aren't strong enough to type it all in. But then, anybody can say anything about anything, I suppose.

Remember, I LIVE in Seattle. [...] 8802 65 46_As if there were no state/ Tisha B'Av thoughts16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 15:49:27 -0700651_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/745311.html

As if there were no state By Shahar Ilan After the Six-Day War in 1967, a few important rabbis from the national-religious camp proposed making changes to the Nahem prayer recited on Tisha B'Av. The idea was that since we had established a sovereign state and resumed control of Jerusalem, it was no longer appropriate to continue to speak about "a desolate and vacant city... laid waste and deserted." Most Orthodox rabbis, however, wanted to continue to mourn the destruction, even when Jerusalem was quite rebuilt, and were unwilling to lend a hand in even this small and very [...] 8868 152 16_Mel Gibson Funny11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 17:51:47 -0700394_us-ascii



From CNN:

"The open container charge is an infraction of the California vehicle code, said Deputy District Attorney Ralph Shapiro, who heads the Malibu office.





If I may be a bit presumptuous about the religion of the DDA, I guess if you are going to make anti-Semitic statements, you should be careful who you make them to or around. [...] 9021 297 43_Re: Germany stops all arms sales to Israel!11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 21:25:50 -0400359_windows-1255 By this logic shouldn't we boycott anything that involves petroleum consumption (like the entire US economy), which is really the economic force financing jihadist terrorism? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:47 AM Subject: Fw: Germany stops all arms sales to Israel! [...] 9319 55 25_Schwartzkopf on Hezbollah0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 21:37:16 EDT577_UTF-8

In a recent interview, General Norman Schwartzkopf was asked if he thought there was room for forgiveness toward Hizbollah

The General said, " I believe that forgiving Hizbollah is God's function. Israel’s job is to arrange the meeting. "





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9375 43 15_a friend's blog16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 18:45:05 -0700563_iso-8859-1 http://www.israelseen.com/

There is an audio component, if you click on radio you can hear. Steve Orenstin talks with Yoram.



--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 9419 263 57_all mel all the time: Maureen dowd: Mel's Tequila Sunrise11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:33:06 -0400381_iso-8859-1 August 2, 2006 Op-Ed Columnist Mel's Tequila Sunrise By MAUREEN DOWD My mom always warned me to stay away from tequila.

She would have given the same advice to Mel. She loved Mel, and always thought he would have been perfect for the role of Michael Collins, the romantic fighter for Irish independence who came to a bloody end in a roadside ambush in 1922. [...] 9683 44 40_Re: Fw: This Is How CNN 'Makes' The News11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 00:23:06 -0400282_ISO-8859-1 I saw the report last night. There was an interview in a coffee shop with a woman from LA who is a Jewish peace activist and who is trying to start dialogues with other Jews on the issue. There was also a "debate" between Michael Lerner and a NY rabbi I don't know. [...] 9728 52 19_Re: a friend's blog12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Aug 2006 21:21:09 -0700721_iso-8859-1 Roz- you are truly amazing!!.....thanks for this info....sue

--- Rosalind Barland wrote:

> http://www.israelseen.com/ > > There is an audio component, if you click on radio > you can hear. > Steve Orenstin talks with Yoram. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new > Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe [...] 9781 6001 64_[QUAR] RE: HABONET Digest - 1 Aug 2006 to 2 Aug 2006 (#2006-206)11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 00:54:40 -0400374_iso-8859-1 Re: Esris (5)

Look, the easy answer is that there are no easy answers. Kind of a Catch-22. Do I support Israel? Yes. Do I support a 2 state system? Yes. Do I support a mentality that Israel was God's gift for the Jews (or Muslims or any particular group)? No. Do I think both Israelis and Palestinians have both been wrong over the years? You betcha. [...] 15783 87 19_Re: a friend's blog16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 04:03:27 -0700719_iso-8859-1 You welcome.



Sue Liberman wrote: Roz- you are truly amazing!!.....thanks for this info....sue

--- Rosalind Barland wrote:

> http://www.israelseen.com/ > > There is an audio component, if you click on radio > you can hear. > Steve Orenstin talks with Yoram. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new > Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > [...] 15871 49 68_Re: [QUAR] RE: HABONET Digest - 1 Aug 2006 to 2 Aug 2006 (#2006-206)11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 07:21:35 -0400570_iso-8859-1 Hi Julie,

Thanks for sharing your views in a reasoned way in response to a provocative posting.

Please don't include an entire digest in your response.

While I agree with much of what you wrote, I need to ask about "the UN leveling Palestinian settlements" - my understanding is that the UN didn't do much of anything other than declare a 2 state solution. Does Tom Friedman actually say that the UN did this in the book you are touting? I have a copy I picked up when the library was selling it, but never got around to reading it. [...] 15921 223 5_Esris0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM28_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 09:46:52 EDT591_ISO-8859-1 In a message dated 8/2/06 12:20:43 PM, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:





> Dear J. Esris. > > I have been trying to do an informal investigation of the set of > circumstances that have to exist for someone to be born Jewish and arrive at ideas such > as you expressed above. This is not an attack on your ideas. I am dead > serious about this. What newspapers did your parents read, what music was in the > house? What life-changing experiences, etc. > > As this may include private and personal information, please feel free to > communicate with me [...] 16145 24 13_Re: Esris (5)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:37:59 -0400578_us-ascii Julie,

A part of me wants to thank you for writing a message that I could have written about my own views, though probably not as eloquently.

Another part of me wants to say that you shouldn't have stooped to the troll's level by feeding him.

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 16170 39 20_Call the White House12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:25:37 -0700379_iso-8859-1 You can call the following number-202-456-1111- and get a live person at the WIhute House and express your views about the current "matzav"--Everyone should do this and get their friends to do this. Israel is fighting for its life...sue



--------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. [...] 16210 20 50_Re: As if there were no state/ Tisha B'Av thoughts12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:42:10 -0400 16231 136 16_Couple of things0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 16:16:08 -0400431_us-ascii Folks:

For a variety of reasons I haven't posted much during the war, but I want to share a couple of things.

1) Although you will all receive individual thank you letters from Ameinu, I want to thank those Habonetters who contributed thus far to the Emergency Children's Fund. As President I see the list of contributors and I can just share that as a "collective" you were very generous. Kol Hakavod! [...] 16368 111 42_[Fwd: [ShomerNet] Democrats Abroad Israel]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 16:30:53 -0400746_windows-1255 From Democrats Abroad in Israel. Judy

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ShomerNet] Democrats Abroad Israel Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 19:36:59 +0200 From: Hillel Shenker Reply-To: ShomerNet@yahoogroups.com To:





Dear Shomernetters, The Democrats Abroad Israel consists of a relatively small group of committed people, doing everything on a voluntary basis. Joanne Yaron (Midwood High School, Columbia U., the Israeli feminist movement and Meretz) is assuming the role of chairperson, and we are just 3 other people on the active executive. We need at least two more executive members, and people ready to help out. Are there any Israelis out [...] 16480 94 50_Yaron London/ We haven't changed the Mideast/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:36:43 -07001035_iso-8859-1 We haven't changed the Mideast

Peace will not prevail on northern border following current war

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; case 'yaan' : urlStr = '/yaan/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' [...] 16575 90 20_Re: Couple of things12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:23:37 -0700565_iso-8859-1 Yesterday evening my best friend Judy and I went to Aroma Cafe, which is around the corner from my house, to have a little dinner. Aroma opened last year and has been packed every night since it opened....It is modeled after Aroma in Tel Aviv- has great food, and all of the waiters and waitresses are Israeli ( the guys like to flirt!). We sat there and watched the big screen Tv which was tuned to Fox News....and heard smatterings of Hebrew all over. Then, about half-way through our dinner, our wiatress broke down and cried. We all hugged. She [...] 16666 106 30_Fw: This is Absolutely Stellar11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 3 Aug 2006 20:00:29 -0700600_iso-8859-1 AOL Email

Subject: This is Absolutely Stellar- No Jewish, no Moslem- just a beautiful piece to lower your blood pressure.

Steve







This is absolutely stellar.

Sound up please. http://www.care2.com/ecards/p/8020-3532-10346-2209

Howard

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 16773 211 27_Fwd: FW: just what you said13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 00:28:43 EDT380_US-ASCII



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 16985 46 39_A weeekend discussion with Michael Oren16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 03:43:55 -0700590_iso-8859-1 Iran Amok? Tune in this weekend for a discussion.

Friday, August 4, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT Can Israel still win in Lebanon? An interview from Jerusalem with historian and former paratrooper Michael Oren on the mistakes so far and what Israel needs to do next. Plus, Journal editors dissect the U.N. resolution on Iran's nuclear program, and how Iran might respond. The program airs on FOX News Channel Saturday at 11 p.m. Eastern Time and again Sunday at 6 a.m. Here's a complete list of airtimes for the contiguous U.S.: EDT: 11 p.m. Saturday and 6 a.m. Sunday CDT: 10 [...] 17032 77 49_In the guise of a mini-god/ Sami Michael/ Haaretz16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 03:56:43 -0700712_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=745757&contrassID=2&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

In the guise of a mini-god By Sami Michael

I was standing in the street in front of a house that had taken a direct rocket hit and whose insides were starkly bared for the lens. It happens to me sometimes: the confused smile of embarrassment. At funerals that turn into a celebration, at raucous mourning processions, on post-destruction and burial pilgrimages - I become filled with a black humor that makes me alien and disconnected. For many years, I believed there was a peculiar element to my emotions, yet a mechanism that was unclear to me proved stronger [...] 17110 91 52_Bradley Burston/ Whatever happens Iran wins/ Haartez16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 04:01:15 -0700528_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746601.html

ANALYSIS: Whatever happens, Iran wins By Bradley Burston

In the West, Mahmoud Ahmedinejad is called a lot of names, many of them unprintable.

But the time may have come to call him the one name he has truly earned in dealing with the West - genius.

In the little over a year in which he has served as president of Iran, he has engineered a position for the Islamic Republic that is unique in the Middle East, and, indeed, in the world: [...] 17202 223 46_Re: And now for something completely different0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:10:49 -0400341_us-ascii Avi - sorry I didn't respond to this in the middle of "everything else" going on. Believe it or not, I read the Ha'aretz sports column regularly and follow the accomplishments of all of the Gezer kids. I shep "family nachas" because I was one of the nuts who helped establish baseball and softball to Israel so many years ago. [...] 17426 264 40_English News from Israel by Barbara Katz19_Belinkoff, Dalia E.24_Dalia.Belinkoff@NLRB.GOV30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:32:45 -0400564_us-ascii







________________________________













Folks-I haven't tried it, but Bracha is the former Barbara Katz from Chicago Habonim.





Dalia

This is her email:





I seem to have been conned into reading my war diary over the IBA English news broadcast. This is a little bit tricky, particularly when there is a rocket attack going on at the same time that it is being recorded over the phone...anyway, here's how to get into it: [...] 17691 202 30_Fw: Gibson Converts to Judaism11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 07:21:27 -0700598_iso-8859-1

Because I like to stay out of trouble, I confess I did not check this out on Snopes.

Steve













Conversion Shocker Gibson Converts to Judaism Changes Name to Mel Gibstein

In his boldest bid yet to apologize to the Jewish community, actor Mel Gibson today announced that he had converted to Judaism.

The news took many Jews aback, since conversion to Judaism is a demanding process that can take months or even years of study, and Mr. Gibson accomplished the feat in a record time of forty-five minutes. [...] 17894 390 9_Re: Esris11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 07:55:06 -0700498_iso-8859-1

Dear Hank You are perfectly correct. Julie did not and does not need your help. Her [civil] answer to me let me understand that she took my question as intended, and wasn't put off by someone of a perhaps different opinion. In many ways, I think Julie's response to me could show us all how to get back to what we once were on Habonet. We exchanged ideas and weren't threatened by dissimilar opinions. For a while we were all friends. Julie has shown us we can still do it. [...] 18285 80 52_Fw: [House-of-humor] Fw: .s-e-chandler@sbcglobal.net11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:01:38 -0700628_iso-8859-1

Habonetters

Please be warned that this came from Steve Klein. Do not open this if you do not like the stuff he sends. This is the worst!

http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 18366 69 40_Re: Fw: This Is How CNN 'Makes' The News11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 08:10:16 -0700454_iso-8859-1 Judy

I agree with your assessment. I liked the original article because it showed the potential for abuse. CNN has been caught a few times in the abuse cookie jar, and people are watching their next moves. It would have been advisable for them to keep polling until they got enough of what they wanted. It also would have been fair for them to describe procedures and tell also how hard or easy it was to get the numbers they did. [...] 18436 25 6_satire11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 11:58:35 -0400705_us-ascii Not sure how appropriate this is to the listserv, but it is sociopolitical... back in March I wrote a series of 3 satirical "Onion"-style articles in response to the abortion ban in South Dakota. The satire is called "The Menstruation Ban Trilogy." You can check it out here:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/45860/a_satire_of_the_abortion_ban_in_south.html

Enjoy.

J.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 18462 187 49_Mel's Real Crime: Not Loving Jews UNCONDITIONALLY8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 21:57:38 +0200537_us-ascii

Let's face it... Mel's Real Crime: Not Loving Jews UNCONDITIONALLY by Mark Green

Does actor and director Mel Gibson deserve a Hollywood-style blacklisting because of "anti-Semitic comments" he made to a cop during a hum-drum DUI arrest? The simple answer is this: No. Never. Not even close.

In fact, though Gibson should certainly be rebuked for his threats to an arresting officer, emotional outburst, and the idiotic timing of his political remarks, he should be respected for his bold convictions. [...] 18650 127 49_'Even when the earth is burning, my home is here'16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 12:19:56 -0700658_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746270.html

'Even when the earth is burning, my home is here' By Avi Sagi and Yedidya Stern

The painful memories associated with the Hebrew month of Av - the desolate, abandoned cities of Zion, the "elders [who] have ceased from the gate, the young men from their music" (Lamentations 5:14) - also apparently depict what northern Israel is experiencing today. The war has left houses with their shutters down, traffic lights flashing aimlessly, offices where the only voice heard is that of the voice mail message, and vineyards whose soil was plowed and cleared of stones and whose fruit is [...] 18778 54 20_Light Summer Reading12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:36:06 -0400576_tis-620 When the cannons speak, the muses are silent. In his address to the Brandies University class of 2003, Aaron Barak, Chief Justice of Israel's Supreme Court, said "The rule of law and democracy must prevail in times of peace. They must also prevail in times of war and terror. The Roman saying that in battle the laws are silent - or the well-known saying that when the cannons speak, the Muses are silent - is wrong." It took Israeli authors quite a while to come to terms artistically with two heartbreaking and cataclysmic events at the time of their society's [...] 18833 539 53_Mel's Real Crime: Not Loving the Jews Unconditionally8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 23:01:54 +0200541_windows-1255

Let's face it... Mel's Real Crime: Not Loving Jews UNCONDITIONALLY by Mark Green

Does actor and director Mel Gibson deserve a Hollywood-style blacklisting because of "anti-Semitic comments" he made to a cop during a hum-drum DUI arrest? The simple answer is this: No. Never. Not even close.

In fact, though Gibson should certainly be rebuked for his threats to an arresting officer, emotional outburst, and the idiotic timing of his political remarks, he should be respected for his bold convictions. [...] 19373 320 60_Latest Meretz USA Statement on the War in Israel and Lebanon13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:04:14 -0400575_iso-8859-1 Latest Meretz USA Statement on the War in Israel and LebanonI've been following efforts and statements by APN (Americans for Peace Now), Brit Tzedek v'Shalom (BTvS), and Ameinu on the war/situation. None of those, in my view, come close to the sharpness and effectivity displayed below. I have been working on my own analysis of the Lebanon/Hizballah war as connected to the Bush Administration's strategic goals in Iraq, but this is the first political statement I see that goes directly to the point, without mincing words or dodging the issue, ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 19694 223 38_Fwd: FW: [Fwd: FW: Ehud Olmert speech]13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:37:41 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 19918 107 43_Ari Shavit from Ha'aretz (Systemic Failure)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:00:04 -0700633_iso-8859-1 This seems like as blunt and honest an assessment as I have read anywhere- sue

Systemic failure By Ari Shavit



Since the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel has not won a war. However, in all its wars during the last generation, neither has Israel been defeated. The Yom Kippur War turned from an almost-defeat into an almost-victory when the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) crossed the Suez Canal in the south and threatened Damascus in the north. The Lebanon War got tangled and complicated but nevertheless brought about Yasser Arafat's expulsion from Beirut and the dismantlement of the PLO sub-state he [...] 20026 292 27_speaking of "useful idiots"11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 18:34:52 -0400578_iso-8859-1 Since the phrase came up, and also because the discussion here sometimes gets around to US politics, I thought this might be of interest. I relate to the Chafee issue, because back when I had voting representation in Congress I lived in Connie Morella (R-MD)'s district. Morella was a great representative - shared my views on lots and lots of issues - and even voted against (or didn't vote for?) Newt Gingrich for Speaker of the House. But in the end she was a Repug and she was banished from the House when Maryland's legislature redrew district lines to get [...] 20319 212 5_dead?11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 19:56:24 -0400527_us-ascii I don't want to start any rumors, but.





I did a search, in Hebrew characters, of 4 of the Israelis whose first and last names I remembered, from Galil 1998 (Yahel Segev, Erez Margalit, Alon Haber, and Tal Erlichman). I have reason to believe that Erez may have been killed-when I did the search, his name and his age (31) and hometown (Jerusalem) came up on a candlelight vigil website for those that were killed. It could be a coincidence, but if it is indeed him, he was killed last week. [...] 20532 598 9_Re: Esris11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 22:23:09 -0400568_us-ascii Steve:

Your problem was that you assumed. It seems that everybody else who responded knew exactly what I meant-and I thought I made sure to phrase my thoughts clearly-you on the other hand retorted with an utterly sarcastic question, and now it seems you are also responding sarcastically to Hank. I merely responded in a civil manner because I didn't want to speak in a way that would start a flame war. Also, I didn't say that I didn't blame the Arabs for hating the Jews, I said I didn't blame the Arabs for hating Israel. Hating a country and [...] 21131 64 17_Clicker--from sue12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Aug 2006 22:24:27 -0700511_iso-8859-1 Clicker

I get up at 6 And immediately reach for the clicker To switch on Fox News And take a deep breath before I go to the kitchen for a cup of coffee.

The noises repeat themselves, not like a symphony But more like fingering exercises in sixth grade Iran, Nasrallah, Booms, bombs Death to Israel, death to my family and friends Death to strangers, women and children Death to the land,scorched and burning And destruction to all that has been built With hands longing for peace… [...] 21196 112 23_Light Summer Reading II12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sat, 5 Aug 2006 10:16:55 -0400 21309 196 46_Fw: New 2-minute film - Lebanon: Myths & Facts11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 5 Aug 2006 07:17:04 -0700792_iso-8859-1 Lebanon: Myths and Facts



----- Original Message ----- From: The Jerusalem Post To: etan lorant Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 6:12 AM Subject: New 2-minute film - Lebanon: Myths & Facts







Lebanon: Myths and Facts Aish.com's new 2 minute movie.







http://www.aish.com/movies/JP/Lebanon.asp









As a registered user of www.JPost.com, you will receive occasional email announcements or offers from The Jerusalem Post and on behalf of our advertisers. When you registered, you may have indicated certain preferences. (See Manage My Subscription Preferences below.) If you do not wish to receive such offers or announcements, you will have to unregister from our service. To [...] 21506 80 47_Brzezinski: The Beginning of the End for Israel11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sat, 5 Aug 2006 19:10:43 -0600560_us-ascii Brzezinski: The Beginning of the End for Israel

By Daniel M Pourkesali

08/03/06 "CASMII" --- - - What a difference 3 weeks makes. You know the warmongers are in trouble when the Sunni Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, the US-backed prime minister, who until last week would not hesitate to appear in a photo-op [1] with Condoleezza Rice tells her she is not welcome in Beirut unless she demands and sees to an immediate ceasefire before thanking Hezbollah [2], a long political thorn in his side, for its sacrifices to protect Lebanon. [...] 21587 104 51_Re: Brzezinski: The Beginning of the End for Israel11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 01:22:21 -0400327_us-ascii One thing I find interesting is how many religious Jews voted for Bush because he is "good for Israel." Good for Israel? He wants to nuke Iran. If he nukes Iran, how do they think Iran is going to retaliate? They wouldn't screw with the USA, so they would retaliate by nuking Israel. I think it's pretty obvious. [...] 21692 136 44_Voices across the divide: Yossi Klein Halevi8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 10:00:17 +0200443_us-ascii Not the beginning end but perhaps the end of the beginning. It's almost comical to read - from our friends both in and out of Habonet - how defending ourselves is nothing more than a form of national suicide. Apparently Israel's true sin is having a commonality of interests with the current American administration. So sorry about that. Being behind all the world's wars is a lot of work and we really had nothing better to do. [...] 21829 71 21_This war is different8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:14:41 +0200544_us-ascii To spare the digest users I won't paste the whole article; it's longish. Take the time to read it, though.

Jon

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/743694.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 21901 111 30_Reuters admits altering photos16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 05:11:04 -07001036_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html

Reuters admits altering Beirut photo

Reuters withdraws photograph of Beirut after Air Force attack after US blogs, photographers point out 'blatant evidence of manipulation' Yaakov Lappin

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = [...] 22013 83 48_Sharon set the stage his heir reacts on/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 05:21:53 -0700707_iso-8859-1 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/06/weekinreview/06bronner.html?ex=1312516800&en=7d2551080fc893f5&ei=5089&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss

Legacies Sharon Set the Stage His Heir Reacts On By ETHAN BRONNER TOWARD the end of last month, well into Israel’s war with the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, Ariel Sharon suddenly seemed to shudder. He had lain in a coma since having a stroke in January, and with the Israeli military turning its fury once again northward, his health began to slide. In the middle of the country’s biggest crisis in years, Mr. Sharon, the former prime minister, was rushed to the emergency room. It is hard not to view that decline in symbolic terms or to sense his shadow [...] 22097 45 20_Re: Couple of things12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 16:19:38 +0400448_ISO-8859-1 I found this link better than any other for news. It gathers the news from ALL the other sources. http://news.fresh.co.il/index.html Meir

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 22143 54 20_Re: Couple of things11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 08:16:46 -0600399_us-ascii thanks for the link but it had a bunch of strange markings that seem to read from right to left! do you have to hold a mirror up to the screen to read it? help!

At 04:19 PM 8/6/2006 +0400, you wrote: >I found this link better than any other for news. >It gathers the news from ALL the other sources. >http://news.fresh.co.il/index.html >Meir [...] 22198 83 20_Re: Couple of things12_Meir Hurwitz16_meir69@GMAIL.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 18:31:58 +0400551_ISO-8859-1 The news excerpts are in HEBREW. Do they come out any other way ? Meir



On 8/6/06, Phil Safier wrote: > > thanks for the link but it had a bunch of strange markings that seem to > read from right to left! do you have to hold a mirror up to the screen to > read it? help! > > > At 04:19 PM 8/6/2006 +0400, you wrote: > > I found this link better than any other for news. > It gathers the news from ALL the other sources. > http://news.fresh.co.il/index.html > Meir > > ------------------------------ > [...] 22282 38 20_Re: Couple of things11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:04:23 -0400514_ISO-8859-1 Dear Meir-- How long have you been on Habonet? This is PHIL SAFIER who asked the question. Not everyone finds him funny (and I admit that I didn't for a very long time) but he is usually joking, even when there is a kernel of serious argument hidden somewhere inside is posting. This war is seriously impairing everyone's sense of humor-- It's hard to feel like making jokes when a crowd people sitting out on the lawn at Kfar Giladi get killed by yet another attack on the north. Shavua tov- Judy [...] 22321 130 30_Hezbollah's Other War/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 12:20:43 -0700729_iso-8859-1 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/04/magazine/04lebanon.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

August 4, 2006

Hezbollah's Other War By MICHAEL YOUNG (Note: This article will appear in the August 13 issue of The Times Magazine.) One evening earlier this summer, Lebanon’s most popular satire show, ‘‘Bas Mat Watan,’’ broadcast a sketch showing an ‘‘interview’’ with Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah’s leader and secretary general. ‘‘Nasrallah’’ was asked whether his party would surrender its weapons. He answered that it would, but first several conditions had to be met: there was that woman in Australia, whose land was being encroached upon by Jewish neighbors; then there was the baker in the United States, whose [...] 22452 60 32_At War, at Home, Again (a story)16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 12:24:33 -0700627_iso-8859-1 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/06/magazine/06lives.html

At War, at Home, Again By JESSICA APPLE Since the start of the new fighting between Hezbollah and Israel, a helicopter has been circling my neighborhood in Tel Aviv — about 70 miles south of where Hezbollah missiles began falling on July 12. When I first noticed the helicopter, I associated it with the sound of the old ride-on lawn mower my great-grandfather used to cut his grass in Houston. For a moment, I went there, to the quiet suburb where I grew up, and smelled the freshly cut grass, and my grandmother’s challah baking in the oven. And [...] 22513 192 48_Re: Voices across the divide: Yossi Klein Halevi11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 15:38:24 -0400590_us-ascii Sometimes I wonder how much of this is about:

A. The way Israel was founded (ie leveling of settlements etc.) B. Fundamentalist Muslims' hatred of Jews C. A Jewish state existing at all (ie in Israel or elsewhere) D. All of the above?

I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if there still would be suicide bombings even if the UN had gone about founding Israel differently. I really have to read my book (FROM BEIRUT TO JERUSALEM) further; I've been lazy with reading lately. I guess the answer to that question lies in precisely when Muslims and Jews started getting [...] 22706 54 13_Going to Iowa0_13_jlcaa@AOL.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 21:06:02 -0400350_us-ascii For friends trying to contact me, I will be in Postville Iowa for a few days and don't know if I'll have access to a computer. I'll be back on Thursday. Avi ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [...] 22761 46 17_Re: Going to Iowa0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 21:15:17 EDT419_US-ASCII What is a member of Habonet doing in Postville, if it's not too personal? Got a number of friends there. Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 22808 218 17_Re: Going to Iowa11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 21:18:24 -0400536_us-ascii Look, this person is going out to Iowa to look at some corn. Show some respect! :-)







Sorry couldn't resist. :-D





JE





_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Emabear@AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 9:15 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Going to Iowa





What is a member of Habonet doing in Postville, if it's not too personal? Got a number of friends there. [...] 23027 18 17_Musical Interlude17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM30_Sun, 6 Aug 2006 22:19:35 -0500437_us-ascii http://www.shinesforall.com/archives/2006/07/israels_send_me.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 23046 107 37_Transcript of Oren's Interview on Fox16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 04:15:01 -0700674_iso-8859-1 Just in case you missed it.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/jer/?id=110008758

THE JOURNAL EDITORIAL REPORT Israel's War, and Ours Is Lebanon part of the wider conflict? Plus dealing with Iran, French fries make their return and more.

Monday, August 7, 2006 12:01 a.m.

Paul Gigot: This week on "The Journal Editorial Report," Israel steps up its offensive in southern Lebanon ahead of a diplomatic deal to end the fighting. Can the IDF deliver Hezbollah a decisive blow before a cease-fire? Plus, what would a multinational peacekeeping force in Lebanon look like, and what would it need to succeed? And the U.N. issues an ultimatum [...] 23154 242 53_Fwd: Re: Voices across the divide: Yossi Klein Halevi17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:38:07 +0200619_us-ascii >To: jesris@optonline.net >From: Sheldon and Heidi >Subject: Re: Voices across the divide: Yossi Klein Halevi





>Sorry Julie, while meant for you it was appropriate to post on Habonet.

>Julie, >When I read what you write I have so much to say that I don't know where >to start. So as a different Julie once said - let's start at the very >beginning. > >Where did you get the information that the UN leveled Palestinian >settlements so that Jews could have that land? >I have read extensively on the subject and no where have I ever heard that >fact. It [...] 23397 167 30_FW: Bigotry pins blame on Jews0_16_gttaylor@ATT.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:33:31 +0000561_- In case you haven't seen this. It was published Sunday in the Chicago Tribune. Cindy Taylor

> Bigotry pins blame on Jews > -------------------- > > What was Mel Gibson's catch-all solution to his woes? `Jews are bad.' > > By David Mamet > > August 6, 2006 > > Many Jews are upset with Mel Gibson because they believe in something called > "the public relations war." > > Israel, these co-religionists think, is endangered because the Arabs, sworn to > the annihilation of the Jewish state, are, somehow, putting a better spin on > their case. > > [...] 23565 125 20_so, we enjoy it too?12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 16:48:18 +0300593_windows-1255 I found this utterly repulsive. Is this entertainment? The lyrics are distasteful enough -- the visuals are orders of magnitude worse. It's terrible that realpolitik has forced us to get our hands dirty - a nation among nations; do we have to bask in it as well? And do we want to give others the impression that we enjoy it? What happened to 'hevei mtalmidav shel aharon: ohev shalom vrodef shalom" and "Ma'asei yadai tov'im bayam..." (i.e. even for Pharoah's army)- neither of these prescripts rule out warfare, but they certainly instruct against celebrating destruction. [...] 23691 100 24_Re: so, we enjoy it too?11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:59:10 -0400586_us-ascii I'm at work so I can't watch this but I have an idea of what you're getting it. It sounds sick. To quote actor and social activist Alan Arkin (in the 1960s/70s) when asked what he was doing about the Vietnam War: "I sit home and curse a lot."

----- Original Message ----- From: Jessica Bonn Date: Monday, August 7, 2006 9:48 am Subject: so, we enjoy it too? > I found this utterly repulsive. Is this entertainment? The lyrics > are distasteful enough -- the visuals are orders of magnitude > worse. It's terrible that realpolitik has forced [...] 23792 253 24_Re: so, we enjoy it too?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:27:24 -0700505_iso-8859-1 Julie

Please do not fall into the trap of judging things before you see them. I still have faith that you will remain an independent thinker and contributor. To ring in with a comment agreeing with someone's opinion before even seeing the piece is not useful to any discussion. I particularly did not find the piece tasteful or to my liking. Does that all of a sudden make the piece legitimate? It would to certain elements on the 'net. I hold out hope you will not be one of them. [...] 24046 288 77_Fw: Anti-Semitism sweeps the globe-Last-Brussels Holocaust memorialvandalized11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:41:10 -0700521_iso-8859-1

Steve sent:

Subject: Fw: Anti-Semitism sweeps the globe-Last-Brussels Holocaust memorial vandalized.



A couple of years ago i wrote that "Europe can be written off as a 'Jewish graveyard' ". Everything received from all parts of Europe over recent months appears to confirm my statement from then! Here is yet another to underline what i wrote then. harry ___________________________________________________________ Brussels Holocaust memorial vandalized--By Yossi Lempkowicz [...] 24335 6259 81_Fw: Photo of Terrorists in the Suburbs in Lebanon from a PerthNewspaper-Australia11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 08:17:44 -0700743_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Harry W. Gluckman To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 12:46 PM Subject: Fw: Photo of Terrorists in the Suburbs in Lebanon from a PerthNewspaper-Australia



Photo of Terrorists in the Suburbs in Lebanon from a Perth Newspaper-Australia







One photograph is more then one million words!











------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30595 168 24_Re: so, we enjoy it too?11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:57:36 -0400569_us-ascii Agreed-- I'll have to see it when I get home. The Alan Arkin quote I posted was really more in response to general frustrations with the state of the Middle East and the world in general than anything else. Should have made that clear. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein Date: Monday, August 7, 2006 10:27 am Subject: Re: so, we enjoy it too? > Julie > > Please do not fall into the trap of judging things before you see > them. I still have faith that you will remain an independent > thinker and contributor. To [...] 30764 171 34_Re: so, we enjoy it too?-for JUlie12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 09:32:03 -0700582_iso-8859-1 I saw this "video" about a week and a half ago with different visuals- basically with South Park-like cartoons- and I found it to be actually pretty funny- a bit of comic relief in terribly horrble situation- Perhaps I am putting myself on the line here for a lot of flack- but what's wrong with a little humor--just remember- with all of the genuine feelings of horror at what is going on, we also say "shfoch chamatcha" at pesach--and Netanyahu, this morning, said a pretty scary thing- that during WWII, no one ( the "diplomatic world) took Hitler seriously, and [...] 30936 98 27_Ceasefire? there's a war on16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 10:27:05 -07001009_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287701,00.html

Ceasefire? There's a war on

Today we mourn our fallen soldiers, but tomorrow we must do what we do best – win this war

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; [...] 31035 465 31_Re: Ceasefire? there's a war on11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 13:40:32 -0400807_iso-8859-1 My head hurts. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rosalind Barland Date: Monday, August 7, 2006 1:27 pm Subject: Ceasefire? there's a war on > http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3287701,00.html > > Ceasefire? There's a war on > > Today we mourn our fallen soldiers, but tomorrow we must do what > we do best – win this war > > P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: > 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin- > right: 32; padding-right:0;} var > agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = > parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") > != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & > (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function > txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { [...] 31501 26 35_Israeli Arab Causualties of the War12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:30:53 -0400 31528 39 39_Re: Israeli Arab Causualties of the War11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:47:40 -0400 31568 59 40_For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:04:02 -0700287_iso-8859-1 I am trying ot find Jessica Apple's phone number or email- she is the author of one of the articles Rozzie posted- and she grew up with Avi and Micha- and they wouldlike to contact her- I tried going on Bezeq144- but my computer doesn't go father than the home page--sue [...] 31628 108 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:24:01 -0400536_us-ascii I have Hebrew characters installed on my computer-- tell me how she spells her name in Hebrew and I will look it up for you when I get home at 5 (EST).

JE ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman Date: Monday, August 7, 2006 3:04 pm Subject: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book > I am trying ot find Jessica Apple's phone number or email- she is > the author of one of the articles Rozzie posted- and she grew up > with Avi and Micha- and they wouldlike to contact her- I tried > [...] 31737 188 31_Re: Ceasefire? there's a war on12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:27:24 -0700579_iso-8859-1 This morning, I watched Netanyahu on Fox talk about how the world ignored Hitler because he was nuts, and how the world is ignoring Nasrallah and Aminajad because everyone thinks they are nuts too, and look what happened with Hitler..It was a strong, scary statement. And it reekeed of a terrible truth...It sank in while I was driving to work and listening to Yehoram Gaon, who sang the mushy, lying song, "Milchama HaAchrona"- but who also sings a lot of beautiful ones and whose voice is very soothing- I burst into tears, drama queen I am, and wanted to just [...] 31926 110 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:29:22 -0700499_iso-8859-1 I amnot sure- her name is Jessica Apple--and she lives iin Tel Aviv...that's all I know...thanks (I treid putting in the Hebrew as I thought it would be spelled, but it didn't work ( they have a virtual typewriter in Hebrew you can use)...maybe yours will work better!---Thanks sue

Julie Esris wrote: I have Hebrew characters installed on my computer-- tell me how she spells her name in Hebrew and I will look it up for you when I get home at 5 (EST). [...] 32037 153 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:32:55 -0400587_us-ascii You don't have Hebrew characters installed? If you have Windows, you can install the characters from your Windows disc. In the meantime, when I get home, I'll guess how it's spelled. Hebrew is phonetic, for the most part... ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman Date: Monday, August 7, 2006 3:29 pm Subject: Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book > I amnot sure- her name is Jessica Apple--and she lives iin Tel > Aviv...that's all I know...thanks (I treid putting in the Hebrew > as I thought it would be spelled, but it didn't work [...] 32191 155 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 12:37:49 -0700403_iso-8859-1 We have MACS at work, and I have a MAC notebook at home ( I took it with me to Israel- and had to do some work while I was there)..SO we are locked out of a lot of stuff form Israel (like the TV on the internet- you have ot have a PC to get it!)...thanks- I look forward to your trying and see where you get- we just got some new MACS in-so I might tyr on them and see what happens..sue [...] 32347 21 39_Hizbullah UAV shot down off Haifa coast11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 15:55:45 -0400540_ISO-8859-1 Batel--Here is the story talking about possible explosives. Judy

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525825097&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 32369 27 43_Re: Hizbullah UAV shot down off Haifa coast11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 16:04:38 -0400427_us-ascii The article in the JP said: "A high-ranking IAF officer said that it was possible that the UAV was loaded with explosives and was on its way to crash into a sensitive installation in northern Israel."

There is a difference between possible and actual, which is the difference between what was posted here and what is written in this article and the others (GLZ, Haaretz) that say there were no explosives. [...] 32397 169 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 13:54:53 -0700571_iso-8859-1 I did a Google search and this is what I came up with. http://www.jessapple.blogspot.com/

Jessica Apple Jessica Apple is a fiction writer living in Tel Aviv. She can be reached at applejess@gmail.com



Sue Liberman wrote: We have MACS at work, and I have a MAC notebook at home ( I took it with me to Israel- and had to do some work while I was there)..SO we are locked out of a lot of stuff form Israel (like the TV on the internet- you have ot have a PC to get it!)...thanks- I look forward to your trying and [...] 32567 72 43_Re: Hizbullah UAV shot down off Haifa coast16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:09:25 -0700496_iso-8859-1 And from Haaretz:

shoots down Hezbollah drone over sea near Haifa coast By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and AP Israel Air Force jets shot down a Hezbollah drone plane Monday evening over the Mediterranean Sea near Haifa. No damage or injuries were reported.

The IAF did not comment on whether the plane was carrying weapons, but Brigadier General Yohanan Locker said that to the best of his knowledge the drone was not armed, but was intended mainly for show. [...] 32640 183 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 14:48:09 -0700386_iso-8859-1 THANKS roz- I also found her father at U of Penn- and emailed him-- they livedin Houston when I was there- sue

Rosalind Barland wrote: I did a Google search and this is what I came up with. http://www.jessapple.blogspot.com/

Jessica Apple Jessica Apple is a fiction writer living in Tel Aviv. She can be reached at applejess@gmail.com [...] 32824 54 43_Re: Hizbullah UAV shot down off Haifa coast11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:50:00 -0400538_ISO-8859-1 I sent the article because I think it is important that information be correct. What I do know from my frequent conversations with people in Israel that what they are hearing on radio and tv isn't always what is in the English news coming out of Israel. In the excitement of the moment, things get broadcast that turn out to be incorrect. I have no way of knowing what Amnon heard or saw but just because it isn't in the English sources doesn't mean he didn't hear it. Whehter it is correct or not is another matter. Judy [...] 32879 46 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM28_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 17:51:23 EDT347_US-ASCII Amnon, you don't know me...but I want to thank you for all your messages you send. My connection with Habonim is Detroit in the late 40's and 50's and Kinneret. Also my son was on workshop in Urim. He made aliya and was on Ravid for awhile and Tuval and is now back in the States......please continue to keep us updated. Sylvia Lask [...] 32926 26 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Mon, 7 Aug 2006 23:38:38 -0400 32953 40 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM28_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 08:18:51 EDT483_US-ASCII Amnon, my son just corrected me, he was on workshop at Grofit not urim......guess I had a senior moment. SYLVIA

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 32994 27 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:52:26 -0400 33022 104 33_Eitan Haber/ This war's tragedies16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 06:46:44 -07001026_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3288001,00.html

This war's tragedies

Sinora's tears, the ruin of Lebanon and the bloody cost paid by the Arab Israeli population

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; case 'yaan' : urlStr = [...] 33127 304 10_Fw: Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:02:40 -0700549_iso-8859-1







From a friend and helper of Israel:

Steve



Doris and I have been discussing our answer to your question about charities in and for Israel, and quite frankly, there are more agencies and service organizations in great need than any of us can even begin to count. It goes without saying that there are literally hundreds. A few of those who especially deal with Emergency Services on behalf of the State of Israel and our Jewish people there that we are helping to support include: [...] 33432 173 14_Re: Fw: Israel11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:09:55 -0400573_us-ascii There's one I donated to, I think I found it through www.all4israel.org ... it's a fund to give the soldiers transportation home to ensure they get there in one piece...there are other links to other charities as well.

J. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein Date: Tuesday, August 8, 2006 2:02 pm Subject: Fw: Israel > > > > > From a friend and helper of Israel: > > Steve > > > Doris and I have been discussing our answer to your question > about charities in and for > Israel, and quite frankly, there are more [...] 33606 175 14_Re: Fw: Israel12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:13:56 -0700360_iso-8859-1 And Ameinu's ( together with Givat Chavivah) Childrens's Emergency Fund....

Julie Esris wrote: There's one I donated to, I think I found it through www.all4israel.org ... it's a fund to give the soldiers transportation home to ensure they get there in one piece...there are other links to other charities as well. [...] 33782 342 29_Beilin on the left's war test13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:43:35 -0400628_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/747477.html

The test of the Zionist left

By Yossi Beilin



There are those who expect the Zionist left to join in the revelry of war, in the pathetic slogans such as "We will win" and in the fiery comments such as "Nasrallah will remember who Amir Peretz is."

There are those who expect us to join the non-Zionist left, which is calling for a unilateral cease-fire, accuses Israel of war crimes, demands that Hamas and Hezbollah be given what they want, and opposes all use of force. Both sides say this is the test of the Zionist left - and [...] 34125 263 37_Re: Eitan Haber/ This war's tragedies12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 14:51:50 -0400 34389 28 6_Israel17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 21:45:43 +0200213_us-ascii Also try natal.org.il - gives psychological support which so many people need right now. And I just heard that the misrad hahinuch needs half a million - to set up schools come sept. heidi



34418 44 28_What can we learn from this?16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 12:42:21 -0700561_iso-8859-1 Archive http://www-static.cc.gatech.edu/fac/Thomas.Pilsch/history.html



This is an incredibly extensive collection of military history links.



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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 34463 253 4_Iran13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 19:09:58 EDT344_US-ASCII Yesterday, the IDF announced that they had captured one of the perpetrators of the initial Hizbollah attack on Israel, and issued a video in which the captured soldier acknowledged that he, one of a group of 50 Hizbollah fighters, had been equipped and trained in Iran by the Iranian Revolutionary Gaurds FOR THIS VERY OPERATION. [...] 34717 49 7_Hadegel16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:02:33 -0700680_iso-8859-1 http://www.hadegel.com/

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3288324,00.html

The site in is Hebrew. It costs 10 shekels to light up a square to help make the flag of Israel. The second link is about the project. The first link is the project link.



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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 34767 68 14_Postville, Ia.16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 22:50:28 -0400639_us-ascii Avi Lyon is in Postville, Ia. as part of a Jewish community commission to investigate worker conditions at the Rubashkin (Aaron's Best) kosher slaughterhouse. The Forward had reported eggregious working conditions imposed by the owners (they are Lubavitchers, who obtained OU certification.) So far the OU has avoided the issue like the plague; after all, they recieve mucho $$$ for their hechsher. All that said, the Talmud is explicit in its support for workers rights. It particularly identifies the concept of oshek, that the work of an oppressed worker is treif, unfit and not kosher for consumption. Anyway, that's why [...] 34836 27 18_Re: Postville, Ia.12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 01:34:15 -0400 34864 513 58_Fw: Those Poor, Innocent Lebanese.....by Irwin N. Graulich11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 22:27:32 -0700604_iso-8859-1

I am sure this is not everyone's cup of tea, but there is enough truth in here to justify the feverish expression of the author's frustration with the duplicitousness of the enemy now crying "unfair".

Steve















Those Poor, Innocent Lebanese by Irwin N. Graulich

Let me get this straight. You allow one of the largest terrorist organizations in the world to set up shop throughout your country. You permit them to completely take over the entire southern third of Lebanon and you claim to have seen nothing. [...] 35378 200 77_Fw: [House-of-humor] Fw: A CNN filmclip - this is a MUST see,and then pass on11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 8 Aug 2006 22:57:39 -0700891_iso-8859-1

From Steve









A CNN filmclip worth viewing:

http://www.video.exposetheleft.net/video/brigitte-gabriel.wmv

























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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 35733 117 62_Re: Fw: Those Poor, Innocent Lebanese.....by Irwin N. Graulich14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:45:02 +0200597_iso-8859-1 Heidi,

Sorry, but I think that this DOES reflect the feelings of most Israelis. It certainly is not Israel's fault that Hezbollah usurped control in most of Lebanon. The Lebanon government and the civilians either openly supported or turned a blind eye to the buildup of 6 years in Southern Lebanon, and more than 20 years in Beirut and the Bekaa valley. I really am truely sorry that civilians are suffering, but no less so than for the more than one million Israeli's in Northern Israel who are within reach of Hezbollah's rockets. Yesterday I saw an interview on Channel [...] 35851 91 62_Re: Fw: Those Poor, Innocent Lebanese.....by Irwin N. Graulich12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 07:17:28 -0400 35943 63 33_Democracy and its discontents/WSJ16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 04:10:48 -0700690_iso-8859-1 http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008771

Democracy an Its Discontents Birth pangs of freedom in the Middle East.

BY PETER WEHNER Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT Recent elections in the Middle East discredit the Bush administration's efforts to promote democracy in that region, according to a line of argument. On "Meet the Press," Tim Russert summarized the criticism this way: "You have free elections in Iraq, and the head of the parliament calls us butchers. You have free elections in Palestine, and Hamas wins. You have elections in Lebanon, and Hezbollah wins 10, 12 seats in the parliament and two cabinet seats. Free [...] 36007 61 18_Condi's Gambit/WSJ16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 04:12:47 -0700700_iso-8859-1 http://www.opinionjournal.com/wsj/?id=110008769

Condi's Gambit Hope for the worst.

BY BRET STEPHENS Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT There are two ways to think of the U.N. Security Council's prospective cease-fire resolution for Israel and Lebanon: Either it is ill-designed for success or brilliantly engineered for failure. Take the second possibility first. Israel has manifestly failed to destroy Hezbollah as a fighting force or humiliate it as a political one (all the while squandering its credibility by boasting to the contrary). Yet an Israeli military victory remains the best and likeliest way for the U.S. to achieve its basic strategic objectives [...] 36069 70 64_Today's soldiers want to come home for Shabbat/ Yair Lapid/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 04:32:50 -0700828_iso-8859-1 Today's soldiers don't want to be heroes, they want to come home for Shabbat

There's no such thing as an Israeli soldier, there's a young boy who enlisted because he knows he has to - we're all in the same boat, so we either sink or keep going

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = [...] 36140 206 62_Re: Fw: Those Poor, Innocent Lebanese.....by Irwin N. Graulich17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:49:49 +0200469_us-ascii



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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 36347 181 53_The Palestinian and Israeli Governments After the War16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 07:03:16 -0700411_iso-8859-1 Israeli-Palestinian Think Tank Pundits View Gov't Problems in Post-Lebanon Era "Middle East Roundtable: The Palestinian and Israeli Governments After the War" Bitterlemons.org E-mail-Text Monday, August 7, 2006 T18:00:38Z Journal Code: 9215 Language: ENGLISH Record Type: FULLTEXT Document Type: OSC Transcribed Text Word Count: 3,174

Commentary by Yosi Alpher: "New Political Realities" [...] 36529 198 15_The Bottom Line12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 08:44:05 -0700557_iso-8859-1 The bottom line, in my own humbler opinion, is this: Israel and the innocents of Lebanon are paying the price for the ignorance of Western civilization in not recognizing and taking seriously the threat of Islamic fundamentalism, and there is nothing to do but finish this conflict in a way that will make someone realize that either the arms go down, and Israel's right to existis upheld, or we are going into WWIII. It seems as if, and I hate to say this because I can't stand looking at Bush, that he is the only friend Israel has, and I [...] 36728 223 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:11:43 -0400555_us-ascii Why can't Bush be more like Clinton was in this conflict and try to work in the best interests of both parties? It is true that the fundamentalist Muslims have a very distorted view of the Western World, but the way Bush talks, I don't blame them for thinking that he's "out to rid the world of Islam." Bush shooting out Rhetoric like "Axis of Evil," "American Arm of Justice," "Either you're with us or against us," and "Freedom Tower," is the kind of propoganda that got Hitler started. I'm not trying to say that Bush is like Hitler, but [...] 36952 377 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:21:40 -0400286_ISO-8859-1 I;m not a Bush supporter, and I don't think that the level of hysteria in middle America is warranted but I can't help pointing out that the Oklahoma City bomb (by an American nut) wasn't in NY or DC or LA and the recent Seattle tragedy wasn't in NY or DC or LA either. [...] 37330 429 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:38:30 -0400387_us-ascii Valid point. But NYC got the biggest of these attacks, and yet we are the most anti-Bush city and the least paranoid.

To quote my brother upon Bush's reelection:

"I'm not afraid of terrorism; I'm TERRIFIED of BUSH!"

----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Gelman Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 12:21 pm Subject: Re: The Bottom Line [...] 37760 117 51_Bradley Burston/ Where there's smoke, there's liars16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 09:50:19 -0700474_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/748295.html

Where there's smoke, there's liars By Bradley Burston

How do you like your lies served up?

When it comes to news we care about, we all have our preferences. Especially in this part of the world, which is renowned for its cultural contributions to the art of embroidering, embellishing, dancing around, and flat-out ignoring what may be called, for lack of a more cosmetic term, the truth. [...] 37878 481 19_Re: The Bottom Line12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 10:21:20 -0700532_iso-8859-1 Julie- the problem we all have is that we are trying to be "logical" and are analyzing all of this from a western/ moral POV when those who want us dead do not thInk like we do, nor do they have the same moral or ethical value system regarding life as we do. (witness- the absurd demands of the Arab league to have ISrael just leave Lebanon and have the Lebanese army take over with the UN, when that was the problem all along -that the Lebanese did nothign and are sterile, and so is the UN)...THIS IS A FALLACIOUS [...] 38360 38 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:24:36 -0400352_ISO-8859-1 I hate Bush as much as anyone but I don't think NYC's and DC's opposition to him are about bearing the brunt of 9-11 and thus being smarter than the rest of the country.. NYC and DC are democratic strongholds and both were anti-Bush before 9-11 too. 9-11 was a prism that magnified most people's pre-existing beliefs, including my own. [...] 38399 549 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:33:06 -0400483_us-ascii Fundamentalist Muslims are often quite dangerous-- agreed, no arguement there. However, I would be careful using the "good vs. evil" wording. Maybe I'm just analyzing too much, (because 5 years ago I wouldn't have even thought of this) but immediately it makes me think of Bush and fundamentalist Christian rhetoric... the word "evil" often has a religious context to it, and it is one that fails to recognize the gray areas in a situation. Nothing is black and white. [...] 38949 59 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:33:57 -0400562_us-ascii My point was that we are in the epicenter of the attacks, yet we aren't scared half to death like the rest of the country, which didn't get hit, is.

----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Gelman Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 1:24 pm Subject: Re: The Bottom Line

> I hate Bush as much as anyone but I don't think NYC's and DC's > opposition to him are about bearing the brunt of 9-11 and thus > being > smarter than the rest of the country.. NYC and DC are democratic > strongholds and both were anti-Bush before [...] 39009 71 19_Re: The Bottom Line0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:46:48 -0400578_us-ascii







I can't stand looking at Bush, that he is the only friend Israel has, and I pray he stands his guard and doesn't let the pressures of everyone else in the world push him to concede.

If Bush is the only friend Israel has we are in deep trouble. In fact Bush destablized the Middle East with his mindless game in Iraq in a way that has made Israel very vulnerable. It is of course nice that Bush is not yet pushing Israel into an early cease fire. But Bush's adventurism and lack of judgement has empowered Iran and Hizbollah. [...] 39081 41 34_Tu b'av Israel's Sadie Hawkins Day12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 14:23:05 -0400 39123 1689 27_Fwd: : From a New Zealander12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:43:14 -0700518_iso-8859-1 Marian sent me this- it's long, but worth reading- sue

Note: forwarded message attached.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 40813 72 19_Re: The Bottom Line12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 12:49:51 -0700646_iso-8859-1 Unfortunately, Julie- some things ARE black and white--I would call arming ones'self with explosives and walking into a pizza place with young kids, and teens, and innocent people and blowing them to bits evil...that's BAD!!--it's black and white- pure and simple- if you don't call that, and every other terrorist action against innocent people evil, then I don't know where you come from. 9/11 was evil. Don't start either, with the excuses for this....It's time the Palestinians stopped whining and took responsibility for thier lives- but they don't seem to care about their lives....only hating us....when you teach your own [...] 40886 83 19_Re: The Bottom Line0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:58:04 -0400621_us-ascii



And Sam, you need to wake up--hate Bush for all that he has done, but know that without his support, Israel is lost.....sue



Sue



I read all the time. Tom Friedman's comments on how Bush has destroyed the credibility of America and put Israel at risk are to the point. Unfortunately they cannot be explained in a soundbyte. I am heartsick about what Bush and his neo cons have done to compromise Israeli security. His support for Israel in holding on this offensive is appreciated. Four more years of a Bush like President coulld spell death for Israel. Bush and [...] 40970 65 19_Re: The Bottom Line12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:07:00 -0700372_iso-8859-1 I will say this once more- without the US ( I have changed form "Bush" to the "US")- Israel is doomed, because no one else gives a Sh____t about us....time to get that through your head....sue

smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

And Sam, you need to wake up--hate Bush for all that he has done, but know that without his support, Israel is lost.....sue [...] 41036 88 25_The speech that should be16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:07:43 -0700573_iso-8859-1 We Will Not Capitulate Ben Caspit proposes the text for a speech by the Prime Minister that would explain to the world exactly what we’re fighting for changeClass(); July 31, 2006 Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world. I, the Prime Minister of Israel, am speaking to you from Jerusalem in the face of the terrible pictures from Kfar Kana. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken and recoil at the sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort that can mitigate the enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you straight in the eye and [...] 41125 168 19_Re: The Bottom Line0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:12:34 -0400406_us-ascii





I will say this once more- without the US ( I have changed form "Bush" to the "US")- Israel is doomed, because no one else gives a Sh____t about us....time to get that through your head....sue

Tough language Sue. But precisely because Israel depends so much on the US we cannot afford to give Bush and the neo cons a free hand to play games with Israel's life. [...] 41294 67 39_Re: The Bottom Line-something different12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 13:19:37 -0700811_iso-8859-1

off the diet-snapple cap: there are 1 million ants for every person in the world....sue



smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

.AOLPlainTextBody { margin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000; background-color: #fff; } .AOLPlainTextBody pre { font-size: 9pt; } .AOLInlineAttachment { margin: 10px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader { font: 11px arial; border: 1px solid #7DA8D4; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .Title { font: 11px arial; background: #B5DDFA; padding: 3px 3px 3px 3px; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldLabel { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; padding: 1px 10px 1px 9px; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader .FieldValue { font: 11px arial; color: #000000; background: #F9F9F9; } .AOLAttachmentHeader a, .AOLImage [...] 41362 361 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 16:27:31 -0400559_iso-8859-1 In terms of "evil", I'm talking in terms of semantics. Honestly, I think it sounds more open minded to call someone (pardon my French) a fucked up sick bastard, or call their actions fucked up and sick, just by virtue of the fact that the word "evil" has a religious connotation; gives off the implacation that one is possessed by Satan or something. The word is used today to describe horrible things people do, but before it was primarily used when we had no concept of mental illness (ie being posessed by Satan, etc., it was a shot in the [...] 41724 231 19_Re: The Bottom Line8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:51:44 +0200460_us-ascii I'm sorry Sue, but Sam is right. Just today, while sitting in a bomb shelter with my friends here at Sasa, I was saying "Think how much safer we'd be right now if Saddam Hussein was still in charge of Iraq."

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sue Liberman Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 10:07 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: The Bottom Line [...] 41956 51 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 15:36:04 -0600507_us-ascii Jon,

With friends like America, who needs enemies? Invading Iraq and destabilizing the region strengthened Iran and militant Islam. With a Shiite regime in Iraq, Iran will get stronger. I agree with those who call for serious statesmanship and negotiations that address the root problems. Using the simplistic Bushian formula of good vs evil only guarantees perpetual conflict. Your bomb shelter won't do much good if nuked, and nuking your "enemies" will only poison the well further. [...] 42008 55 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 17:49:07 -0400607_ISO-8859-1 Without AMERICAN support, Israel would be doomed. I think that there are presidents who have not been not very good on this issue (Bush I) but many besides Bush who have been very supportive, including Johnson(1967) and that notorious anti-Semite Nixon(1973)

Judy

smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> > > I will say this once more- without the US ( I have changed form "Bush" > to the "US")- Israel is doomed, because no one else gives a Sh____t > about us....time to get that through your head....sue > > Tough language Sue. But precisely because Israel depends so much on > the [...] 42064 39 37_Re: US Support (Was: The Bottom Line)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 19:22:25 -0400345_us-ascii > I will say this once more- without the US ( I have changed form > "Bush" to the "US")- Israel is doomed, because no one else gives > a Sh____t about us....time to get that through your head....sue > >> And Sam, you need to wake up--hate Bush for all that he has >> done, but know that without his support, Israel is lost.....sue [...] 42104 47 37_Re: US Support (Was: The Bottom Line)11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 21:16:24 -0400377_us-ascii Yes, this frightens me to no end. I don't want to sound narrow minded by attacking people's religious beliefs, but... the whole story of Jesus in general (and not just in Christianity, stories in all religions, Judaism included, make me say this), all one has to do is think for more than 2 seconds to realize how ridiculous it sounds. That's my opinion, anyway. [...] 42152 235 44_Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 00:15:03 -0400382_us-ascii Shalom, my son Marc Hershkowitz was on Grofit for 81-82. Seems a lifetime ago with all that is going on now. I still have friends st Gesher Aziv and Tzorah among other places...Sylvia Lask



-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 9:52 AM Subject: Re: For Anyone in Tel Aviv near a phone book [...] 42388 21 19_Re: The Bottom Line12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 00:50:49 -0400 42410 89 19_Re: The Bottom Line8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 08:16:05 +0200544_us-ascii Julie, Sue, Phil, et. al. I was being sarcastic. It's a bad habit. If Iraq still had its pre-war military we'd probably be being hit by Scuds as well. I'm with Sue on this one. It's interesting to note that not a single serious commentator here in Israel is blaming the Bush administration for the war. From some of the comments I'm reading here, one would think that the Middle East would be a paradise of peace and prosperity if only Al Gore were president. This war was a long time coming. Those of us who have lived or served [...] 42500 217 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 01:26:39 -0400429_us-ascii No, if Al Gore were President, the Middle East wouldn't be Utopia, but I bet the conflict wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is now. And things are worse than when Saddam was in power.

JE





_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Jon Baum Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:16 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: The Bottom Line [...] 42718 333 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 9 Aug 2006 23:28:10 -0700290_us-ascii Discussions about "what if" are not much, in my opinion. Who knows what would happen if Gore was the president or anything else. There are too many variables to any situation to be able to say that things would be one way or another. For example, what if 9/11 did not happen? [...] 43052 19 71_Israel-Hizbullah conflict: Victims of rocket attacks and IDF casualties11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:45:42 -0400559_ISO-8859-1 http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Terrorism+from+Lebanon-+Hizbullah/Israel-Hizbullah+conflict-+Victims+of+rocket+attacks+and+IDF+casualties+July-Aug+2006.htm

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 43072 58 9_Dormitory12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:08:47 -0400 43131 226 19_Re: The Bottom Line11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:29:52 -0600591_us-ascii Hell Manon, nobody's perfect. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Glad you liked it. Now if you'll just revisit your views on circumcision...

Phil

At 12:50 AM 8/10/2006 -0400, you wrote:

>Hey Phil > >That was a good one. What happened? > >Amnon > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Phil Safier >Date: Wednesday, August 9, 2006 5:36 pm >Subject: Re: The Bottom Line > > > Jon, > > > > With friends like America, who needs enemies? Invading Iraq and > > destabilizing the region strengthened Iran and militant Islam. > > With a > [...] 43358 61 19_Re: The Bottom Line13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:00:16 -0700578_iso-8859-1 No, not a paradise of peace and prosperity but certainly better off than it is with the US bogged down in a hopeless and meaningless war.

Jon Baum wrote: Julie, Sue, Phil, et. al. I was being sarcastic. It's a bad habit. If Iraq still had its pre-war military we'd probably be being hit by Scuds as well. I'm with Sue on this one. It's interesting to note that not a single serious commentator here in Israel is blaming the Bush administration for the war. From some of the comments I'm reading here, one would think that the Middle [...] 43420 252 13_Re: Dormitory11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 14:20:35 -0400373_utf-8 Amnon, once again, thanks for sharing........here in the States, I think many of us feel that there is so little we can do except watch the news and write letters, attend rallies....but are such small things. Sylvia



-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 10 Aug 2006 11:08 AM Subject: Dormitory [...] 43673 63 23_A little free publicity8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 21:30:27 +0200470_us-ascii http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/nyer_hangs_tough_opedcolumn ists_ralph_peters.htm

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 43737 39 11_Fun at work12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:05:30 -0700531_iso-8859-1 We just had a bomb scare here- someone found a "suspiscious" package on the street in front of our building- so the whole place was put on alert- and the police blocked off the whole street and rhe bomb squad is downstairs even as I type....Jill- one of the Israelis who works here was running around crazy-like....I was just reading the New York Post article about Sasa ( nice, for a change)...and we were laughing about my obcession with Rafael Nadal- the Spanish Tennis hunk....life goes on even in America..sue [...] 43777 76 39_Authors oppose expansion of IDF assault16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 12:58:30 -0700417_iso-8859-1 Prominent Israeli authors say oppose expansion of IDF assault By Shiri Lev-Ari, Haaretz Correspondent Acclaimed Israeli authors Amos Oz, A.B. Yehoshua, and David Grossman publicly stated their opposition Thursday to the cabinet's decision to expand ground operations in Lebanon, calling for a diplomatic solution to the crisis based on the proposal put forth by Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora. [...] 43854 1656 23_Some interesting notes.16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 14:54:48 -0700579_iso-8859-1 I am sending it as an attachment, because I received the PDF file as an attachment and do not know how to copy and paste it from a PDF file. Rozzie





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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 45511 199 27_Re: A little free publicity0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 18:32:28 -0400318_us-ascii Jon - thanks for forwarding this to those of us in.......New York. Assuming that the story is accurate, it was the least exploitative NY Post article I have ever seen. Yesterday, for example, they were consumed with the adulterous affair and gambling habits of the NY Mets catcher.

Hang in there, [...] 45711 169 30_Re: The Bottom Line - What if.0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:24:17 EDT404_UTF-8 In a message dated 08/10/2006 2:28:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

Discussions about “what if” are not much, in my opinion. Who knows what would happen if Gore was the president or anything else. There are too many variables to any situation to be able to say that things would be one way or another. For example, what if 9/11 did not happen? Batel [...] 45881 71 30_Between cholera and the plague16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 17:19:54 -0700629_iso-8859-1 Between cholera and the plague By Akiva Eldar

Much has been said and written about the idyllic relationship between Ehud Olmert and Amir Peretz. And indeed, the two arrived at yesterday's cabinet meeting hand in hand, having identical interests and suffering similar pressures. The prime minister and the defense minister, the leaders of the two biggest parties, both need an unequivocal victory in this war to the same extent. They both have the same fear of receiving a grade of "barely satisfactory" on the final exam that has suddenly landed on their heads during their first year of political science [...] 45953 168 30_text of Roz's notes attachment11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 22:05:42 -0400669_iso-8859-1 The Israel-Hizbullah War: A Zero-Sum Game for Everyone? Ephraim Lavie Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and African Studies Although Israel's political leadership has designated the clash with Hizbullah a "war of no choice," it has still been obliged to define realistic objectives for the prosecution and termination of this war. These objectives must inevitably relate to the broader regional and global context of the confrontation. The expulsion of Syria from Lebanon created a new situation in which a Hizbullah provocation of Israel did not necessarily imply a confrontation between Israel and Syria. Moreover, Israel did not react harshly to [...] 46122 209 34_Re: text of Roz's notes attachment16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:49:16 -0700690_iso-8859-1 Thank you Noam for doing this.

Noam Stopak wrote: The Israel-Hizbullah War: A Zero-Sum Game for Everyone? Ephraim Lavie Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and African Studies Although Israel's political leadership has designated the clash with Hizbullah a "war of no choice," it has still been obliged to define realistic objectives for the prosecution and termination of this war. These objectives must inevitably relate to the broader regional and global context of the confrontation. The expulsion of Syria from Lebanon created a new situation in which a Hizbullah provocation of Israel did not necessarily imply a confrontation between [...] 46332 20 11_MBI return?11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 10 Aug 2006 23:19:20 -0400440_ISO-8859-1 What a day for the MBI kids to come home! I know the DC kids usually get a bus from NY. Did they get back to California etc? Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 46353 53 51_Olmert cannot remain in office/ Haartez/ Ari Shavit16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 04:28:13 -0700416_iso-8859-1 Olmert cannot remain in the prime minister's office By Ari Shavit Ehud Olmert may decide to accept the French proposal for a cease-fire and unconditional surrender to Hezbollah. That is his privilege. Olmert is a prime minister whom journalists invented, journalists protected, and whose rule journalists preserved. Now the journalists are saying run away. That's legitimate. Unwise, but legitimate. [...] 46407 424 36_an article from the Brussels Journal16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 04:44:27 -0700659_iso-8859-1 Published on The Brussels Journal (http://www.brusselsjournal.com)

Beheading Nations: The Islamization of Europe’s Cities By Fjordman Created 2006-07-13 22:31

We have seen videos on TV of Muslim Jihadis beheading infidel hostages. Less attention has been paid to the fact that Muslims are beheading entire nation states. Although this is happening in slow motion, it is no less dramatic. Historically, the major cities have constituted a country’s “head,” the seat of most of its political institutions and the largest concentration of its cultural brainpower. What happens when this “head” is cut off from the rest of the body? [...] 46832 47 56_Bibliography on the American Jewish Labor Movement- site16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 04:47:51 -0700588_iso-8859-1 Bibliography on the American Jewish Labor Movement can be found here:



http://www.jewishlaborcommittee.org/2006/01/readings_on_the_american_jewis.html





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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 46880 73 38_Off the subject question for Galilniks0_25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:53:33 +0200442_iso-8859-1 Hi Galilniks,

My son Aharon just told me that Galil kids visited an archeological educational activity run by the Ramah Day Camps in Philly one day this week - Dig the Past. (How does he know - he was the archeologist in charge!) Any feedback?

(He was called up to miluim a week before he was supposed to leave to go to Philly to organize the project... The army was actually very understanding and let him go.) [...] 46954 44 15_Re: MBI return?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 07:38:33 -0700430_us-ascii It's been not only a crazy day to come home on, which they did safely, but the entire summer was rather eventful. Only three kids left the program and the rest had an amazing experience.

Batel

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judy Gelman Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 8:19 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: MBI return? [...] 46999 22 55_Re: Olmert cannot remain in office/ Haartez/ Ari Shavit12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 11:35:36 -0400 47022 2069 41_[QUAR] Fw: What really happened in Beirut11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 08:12:44 -0700554_iso-8859-1

Too funny not to send

Steve













What really happened in Beirut:

















Failure at Reuters

Thomas Lifson Mon Aug 7, 4:30 PM ET

Though I am five thousand miles away, I think that I can detect the vibrations emanating from West Norwood Cemetery in London. For surely Paul Julius Reuter, the German rabbi's son who founded the Reuters News Agency a century and a half ago, is spinningin his grave. [...] 49092 63 78_The Future of Western Civilization (was: an article from the Brussels Journal)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:22:43 -0700590_iso-8859-1 I assume that most, if not all, of us Habonetters are in favor of the continuing existence of "Western Civilization." Articles like this one from the Brussels Journal terrify many, while others say the "threat" is exaggerated, yet others are simply in denial. But the real question is what should "the West" do? Rolling over and playing dead is an option, but not a good one. Trying to kill all the fundamentalists (of every ilk) is another option, also not a good one. Personally, I have to believe there is a future for modern society--I have an 11-year-old daughter, and [...] 49156 115 44_Bradley Burston/ Haaretz, August 11 Anlaysis16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:31:59 -0700635_iso-8859-1 Last update - 19:21 11/08/2006 ANALYSIS: The war Hezbollah couldn't lose - and might By Bradley Burston On paper, Hezbollah couldn't lose.

It went into the war as the best equipped guerrilla force in history, with sophisticated laser-guided anti-tank missile weaponry, with bunkers built with reinforced concrete walls four meters (12 feet) thick, with more than 13,000 rockets, a launcher for every eight of them, command and control networks built with Iranian advice and Iranian advisors, and a string of forifications, some of them originally built by Israel, up to the very edge of Israel's northern border [...] 49272 70 55_Re: Olmert cannot remain in office/ Haartez/ Ari Shavit16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:33:55 -0700744_iso-8859-1 Yes, it is looking really bad from where I sit right now. Rozzie

amnon hadari wrote:





Haaretz' front page today Friday. is chock full of withering criticism of the government's mishandling of the war. I can't recall such unanimity even after we were caught flat-footed in '73. Yael Lotan. a writer and translator sent in her 1967 translation of Pete Seeger's "And The Big Fool said keep going (or something like that.) Amnon > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749484.html > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > The [...] 49343 35 15_Re: MBI return?0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 09:37:36 -0700397_utf-8 From California,

Our shaliach met the plane everyone safe, sound, and happy. One kid lost his ticket to S.F. so the shaliach bought him another one. Other than that no problems that I've heard.

Norm ---- Judy Gelman wrote: What a day for the MBI kids to come home! I know the DC kids usually get a bus from NY. Did they get back to California etc? Judy [...] 49379 83 55_Re: Olmert cannot remain in office/ Haartez/ Ari Shavit16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 10:12:40 -0700358_iso-8859-1 And now watching Ariuz Shatayim news, the army is also beginning to question the tactics of the Chief of staff. There is much unhappiness in the upper echelons of the army.

Rosalind Barland wrote: Yes, it is looking really bad from where I sit right now. Rozzie

amnon hadari wrote: [...] 49463 85 82_Re: The Future of Western Civilization (was: an article from the Brussels Journal)12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:39:01 -0400 49549 47 60_Re: Bibliography on the American Jewish Labor Movement- site0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:47:39 EDT401_US-ASCII Thanks Roz for posting :) Avi

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 49597 20 45_Re: [QUAR] Fw: What really happened in Beirut12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 14:16:01 -0400398_us-ascii Thanks Steve.

David

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 49618 53 60_Re: Bibliography on the American Jewish Labor Movement- site16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 12:07:09 -0700479_iso-8859-1 No problem. Roz

JLCAA@AOL.COM wrote: Thanks Roz for posting :) Avi

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--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. [...] 49672 73 55_Re: Olmert cannot remain in office/ Haartez/ Ari Shavit12_marc argolis13_mmxmm@AOL.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 15:39:00 -0400496_US-ASCII ----------------------- Sent with ChatterEmail+ True push email for the Treo Smartphone http://get.chatteremail.com

-----Original Message----- From: Rosalind Barland Date: Friday, Aug 11, 2006 1:12 pm Subject: Re: Olmert cannot remain in office/ Haartez/ Ari Shavit



And now watching Ariuz Shatayim news, the army is also beginning to question the tactics of the Chief of staff. There is much unhappiness in the upper echelons of the army. [...] 49746 96 11_Peace Songs12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:29:49 -0400 49843 324 72_Fw: =?windows-1255?Q?=91World_Opinion=92?= is Worthless by Dennis Prager11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 11 Aug 2006 16:29:10 -0700425_windows-1255 Dennis Prager's thoughts about moral cowardice. Please feel free to argue against his ideas. That's what this is here for.

Steve







‘World Opinion’ is Worthless By Dennis Prager

If you are ever morally confused about a major world issue, here is a rule that is almost never violated: Whenever you hear that "world opinion" holds a view, assume it is morally wrong. [...] 50168 145 4_Shem12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 07:28:20 -0400 50314 488 52_Fw: BETWEEN THE LINES very interesting point of view11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 08:30:29 -0700560_Windows-1252 Well worth reading and disseminating.

Steve

]





All eyes on Lebanon

Joseph Farah





Posted: August 1, 2006 - 1:00 a.m. Eastern

You know, it's funny.

For years I've been trying to get people to pay attention to the deaths and destruction and injustices being perpetrated on my beloved Lebanon.

And nobody cared .

When Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Liberation Organization tried to take over the country and make it his terrorist playground, nobody cared. [...] 50803 124 32_Fw: results of the peace now war11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 09:11:33 -0700496_iso-8859-1

From a friend:

Steve







Dear Friends: Before we shut down our computer for Shabbat, we would like you to see thise slide show about the price we pay for the freedom of our people and the State of Israel. Please take a look, then join us in a prayer for Israel and a few moments of silence..........the Hebrew lettering at the beginning states "Lebanon War 2 Shalom till we meet here again, and Shabbat Shalom to you all, harry and doris [...] 50928 149 25_Re: Shem-the use of music12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 10:24:58 -0700527_iso-8859-1 Interesting- how parallel our lives can be; i have been up most of the nights this past week watching and listening to Fox;News (I hear it in my sleep) I can't access Israeli TV becasue we onnly have MACs in our offices and at home. So during the day, on my way to work, at work, on my way home, I have turned to music to soothe MY nerves. But as an alte kaker, and not so familiar with modern music (except Idan Reichel), I have turned to Ester Ofarim, and Yehoram Gaon. I continually play "Etz HaAlon ( don't [...] 51078 166 25_Re: Shem-the use of music12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 13:45:55 -0400538_iso-8859-1 Thanks Sue ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman Date: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:24 pm Subject: Re: Shem-the use of music

> Interesting- how parallel our lives can be; i have > been up most of the nights this past week watching and > listening to Fox;News (I hear it in my sleep) I can't > access Israeli TV becasue we onnly have MACs in our > offices and at home. So during the day, on my way to > work, at work, on my way home, I have turned to music > to soothe MY nerves. But [...] 51245 5023 35_[QUAR] Fwd: Fw: Yesterday and Today13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 13:44:56 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 56269 23 9_Film clip11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:15:35 -0400467_ISO-8859-1 Except for the totally obnoxious title of your email, thank you fro sharing this.

Judy

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 56293 69 32_Brad Burston on who wins the war0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:24:12 -0400416_us-ascii As Amnon and Rozzie have previously commented, the Israeli papers are full of criticism of the Israeli government's conduct of the war. Bradley doesn't spare Olmert-Peretz-Halutz either, but he makes a case that Nasrallah and Hezbullah could still emerge as the losers of the war. I have been thinking along the lines over the past couple of days - take a look at his reasoning - what do others think? [...] 56363 522 23_Fw: Yesterday and Today0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 14:29:21 -0400539_utf-8 Steve - great "front page" of the NY Times on the crimes committed by the Ghetto fighters.

On the same theme, here is link to an article by Jeffry Mallow, past President of Ameinu, that appeared in the Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles entitled "Europe Displaying Disproportionate Pacifism"

http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=16302

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: SHX2@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sat, 12 Aug 2006 1:44 PM Subject: [QUAR] Fwd: Fw: Yesterday and Today [...] 56886 456 155_[QUAR] Fwd: Fw: A Call to the UN to Provide Reparations to Israel too for the Hezbollah War-First time ever !!!!!!!!!!! Pass it on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 11:29:53 -0700497_iso-8859-1



Note: forwarded message attached.

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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 57343 26 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:25:09 -0400 57370 48 13_Re: Film clip13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:28:11 -0400317_iso-8859-1 Judy,

The title is more than obnoxious. It is inciteful, hateful, and slanderous. It has nothing to do whatsoever with the contents of the clip. It was not even the title given by whoever created it, of course, The title was added by Mr. Klein out of hateful, contemptible incitement instinct. [...] 57419 124 27_Re: Fw: Yesterday and Today11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 15:49:43 -0400444_UTF-8 The page Steve sent is of course a farce. You no doubt all know this but someone on another listserve I am on sent it thinking it was the real paper. A NYTimes reporter actually looked up the real page from that day. He wrote:" I have the real one for May 10, 1943. It says that the Germans are falling back in Tunisia but that the Japanese are chasing the Brits out of India and into Burma. Nothing on page 1 on the Warsaw Ghetto." [...] 57544 43 13_Re: Film clip11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:08:52 -0400586_ISO-8859-1 Dear Yuval-

You don't know for sure that Steve added the subject heading himself. I prefer to believe that he didn't but just insensitively passed it on.

It probably was put together by someone religious--why else all those photos of davening? That doesn't mean the person was right wing--I know religious left wingers too. Haim Watzman who wrote the following article Wash Post is orthodox, as is Linda Gradstein of NPR, who is always being accused of being pro-Palestinian. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/21/AR200607210137 [...] 57588 142 27_Re: Fw: Yesterday and Today14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:11:52 +0200618_utf-8 The NYT front page is from http://thepeoplescube.com/. Carmi

----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" To: Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 9:49 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Yesterday and Today





The page Steve sent is of course a farce. You no doubt all know this but someone on another listserve I am on sent it thinking it was the real paper. A NYTimes reporter actually looked up the real page from that day. He wrote:" I have the real one for May 10, 1943. It says that the Germans are falling back in Tunisia but that the Japanese are [...] 57731 69 13_Re: Film clip13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 17:08:26 -0400562_iso-8859-1 Dear Judy,

Even if Steve Klein did not put the lying, slanderous title on the message, he still forwarded it to this list without any regard whatsoever for any truthfulness or fairness. As far as I am concerned this is his common attitude to the volumes of garbage he clutters this list with daily, by far above and beyond what any other list members does. I usually ignore and delete it. But when there is lying and slandering involved, as in this case, it's gone way beyond the limits of what I am willing to put up with without getting [...] 57801 75 27_Re: Fw: Yesterday and Today0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 17:43:28 EDT487_US-ASCII

In a message dated 08/12/2006 4:13:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL writes:

The NYT front page is from http://thepeoplescube.com/. Carmi





I looked at this web site. This a site that spends most of its time making nasty attacks on Democrats and Liberals. This may be where Steve Klein is coming from. It probably is. I bet he thinks it is real funny that some of those progressive people support him. Very ugly stuff, [...] 57877 169 23_Question about an image11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:57:46 -0700423_us-ascii This is a question, and not an attempt to spread stories, so please read the following with that in mind.





One of the images that keeps reappearing in various anti-Israel discussions is that of Israeli girls writing on shells bound for Lebanon. So far, everything I have read and heard about it says that the girls were writing something like: to the kids of Lebanon, with love from us. [...] 58047 503 34_Now for some good news about Islam11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:59:11 -0400716_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749289.html















Now for some good news about Islam





By Irshad Manji

It is easy to believe that the Muslim world has only bad news to offer. But easy does not mean accurate. In fact, there is much good news to report.

Before all else, allow me to confess the obvious: We Muslims play the villain role quite well, thank you. Last month, a group of terrorists - evidently Islamist militants - blew commuter trains to shreds in India. The next day, Hezbollah crossed a UN-delineated boundary to kidnap and kill Israeli soldiers, touching off the latest litany of bombs and [...] 58551 27 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 01:27:31 -0400 58579 114 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:48:37 -0700301_iso-8859-1 Ken- my boss wants me to approach people (organizations) who signed an ad which appeared a year ago in the NYT supporting getting out of Gaza, and Ameinu was one of the signers- and ask if they still feel the same way--I am not a poltical person- so I am asking off the record.... sue [...] 58694 105 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 22:50:23 -0700581_iso-8859-1 PS- just also saw segment on Fox regarding Iran's getting ready to "nuke" Israel.....when is the world going to wake up???...

--- amnon hadari wrote:



---------------------------------





We're ahead of the east coast by seven and the west coast by ten hours. So I can tell you:

The six am news on Galei Zahal (the remarkably free wheeling) army station spoke of a trenchant and unsparing article by Nahum Brnea in today's Yediot Ahronot. But it's still not up on Ynet their electronic site. [...] 58800 25 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 12 Aug 2006 23:48:16 -0700535_us-ascii Re: Fox News and Iran:

Sorry, but I just can't help myself saying: look at the source. I don't give much credence to anything Fox news says. Personally, Fox and news in the same breath is difficult to take.

Batel

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 58826 130 42_Nahum Barnea article from YNET/ No Victory16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 04:10:11 -07001029_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3290336,00.html

No victory

Had he known the results ahead of time, Nasrallah would still have chosen this war. The Israeli government would have hemmed and hawed

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} [...] 58957 214 39_Article on Lee Shai in Louisville paper0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 09:39:10 -0400461_us-ascii Lee Shai Weissbach, my madrich at Tavor, is off to Haifa for a year - read all about it.

If you are still on Habonet and are reading this, Lee Shai, safe travels!

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060810/NEWS01/608100365

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 2:48 AM Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war [...] 59172 88 43_Re: Article on Lee Shai in Louisville paper12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:27:25 -0700613_iso-8859-1 Thanks Ken for that--I am goign ot try and get permission to reprint this in our paper...sue

--- kbob24@AOL.COM wrote:

> Lee Shai Weissbach, my madrich at Tavor, is off to > Haifa for a year - read all about it. > > If you are still on Habonet and are reading this, > Lee Shai, safe travels! > > http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060810/NEWS01/608100365 > > > Ken > > > -----Original Message----- > From: batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 2:48 AM > Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war > > > Re: Fox News [...] 59261 52 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:29:51 -0700669_iso-8859-1 so what choices do you suggest? CNN???...or the networks?....(aside form the net choices of Israeli sources, of course)....sue

--- Batel Libes wrote:

> Re: Fox News and Iran: > > Sorry, but I just can't help myself saying: look at > the source. I don't > give much credence to anything Fox news says. > Personally, Fox and news > in the same breath is difficult to take. > > Batel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses [...] 59314 83 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war14_Tova Silverman26_tovasilverman@NETSCAPE.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 11:59:07 -0400352_iso-8859-1 To be honest I did not want to put my 2 cents in at all but after reading Batel I had to do something!!!

My name is Tova Hammerman Silverman and I was on the 5th workshop in Kfar Blum. We made aliyah in 1968. Now, 38 years later we sit on pension in Gan Yavne and see our triplet granddaughters once a week, that was until ....! [...] 59398 33 14_Prime Minister16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:28:29 -0400506_- With all of the talk about Olmert's not being fit for the role prime minister, just wondering if anyone has any worthwhile candidates? I lived in Israel for nine years (from 1998-1989) on Kibbutz Ravid for 1 year and then on Kibbutz Tuval. I was fascinated with Israeli politics for the years that I was there, developing and facilitating programs on Israeli politics and socitey for overseas students first through Habonim Dror's Tel Aviv office, and then for Project Oren (out of Seminar Oranim). [...] 59432 734 42_A very successful Don Quixote de la Mancha13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 12:39:36 -0400417_iso-8859-1







The Spanish headline of Granma reads: "Absolved by History". ___ |Y| ^^^

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60167 190 36_Fw: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:13:35 +0400357_ISO-8859-1 Olmert's stewardship might be sloppy, but the unpreparedness of the army one could only blame the former Minister of Defense Mofaz and the present Chief of Staff Chaluts.





Arie

----- Original Message ----- From: amnon hadari Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 11:25 PM Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war [...] 60358 68 18_Re: Prime Minister12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 10:56:17 -0700585_iso-8859-1 Marc- what are you doing now, and where do you live? - Just curious- sue

--- Marc Hershkowitz wrote:

> With all of the talk about Olmert's not being fit > for the role prime > minister, just wondering if anyone has any > worthwhile candidates? I lived > in Israel for nine years (from 1998-1989) on Kibbutz > Ravid for 1 year and > then on Kibbutz Tuval. I was fascinated with > Israeli politics for the years > that I was there, developing and facilitating > programs on Israeli politics > and socitey for overseas students first [...] 60427 21 46_Re: A very successful Don Quixote de la Mancha11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 13:08:37 -0600485_us-ascii Thanks for the great photo of a great man. May he live to see the empire crumble and collapse.

Viva Fidel!

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 60449 19 10_Viva Fidel8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:18:38 +0200380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 60469 28 40_Re: Fw: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:11:03 -0400 60498 43 10_cease-fire13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:28:59 EDT442_US-ASCII anybody want to bet on how long the cease-fire lasts????

steven

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 60542 92 14_Re: cease-fire11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:48:28 -0400382_iso-8859-1 What's the "under/over"?

If I were a betting man, I'd say long enough for the UN force to get in position for Hezbollah to hide behind/amongst.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hancoff To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 5:28 PM Subject: cease-fire



anybody want to bet on how long the cease-fire lasts???? [...] 60635 37 14_Re: cease-fire11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:14:34 -0400670_ISO-8859-1 According to Haaretz, Hezbollah is refusing to disarm so let's see if there even is a cease fire. Judy

Steve Hancoff wrote:

> anybody want to bet on how long the cease-fire lasts???? > > steven > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew College > , which offers online courses and an online > MA in Jewish Studies . > > To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > [...] 60673 30 27_Re: Question about an image12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:44:49 -0400466_us-ascii In the first photo I saw, the shell in the foreground said "[To N]azrala with love from Israel" although there were other shells in the background.

Frankly, I found it a disgusting picture.

You can see that photo, with an explanation, here:

http://card.wordpress.com/2006/07/24/israeli-children-signing-bombs-part-ii/

http://tinyurl.com/rum5f

Click on the link on that page for another page with several more photos. [...] 60704 67 14_Re: cease-fire13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:15:54 -0400591_iso-8859-1 Hizballah and the Lebanese government apparently accept the UN call for a cease-fire, but refuse to discuss the disarmament of Hizballah. Israel accepts the UN call for a cease-fire, but in the meantime is still expanding its ground operations in Lebanon. All this seems to be very far indeed, unfortunately, from any real cease-fire any time soon. I'd rather suggest thinking in terms of how long it may take for a very temporary and slim cease-fire (in this round of the ongoing war) as it is to go into full effect, if at all. That's also because the larger confrontation [...] 60772 22 2_Me16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:27:16 -0400449_- Sue, I'm a Realtor in the residential market, licensed in Maryland and Washington DC. I live in Rockville, MD with my six year old son.

Marc

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 60795 30 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:30:38 -0500376_us-ascii At 23:48 -0700 8/12/06, Batel Libes wrote: >Re: Fox News and Iran: > >Sorry, but I just can't help myself saying: look at the source. I don't >give much credence to anything Fox news says. Personally, Fox and news >in the same breath is difficult to take.



IMO, Fox News has the only breath of fresh air in this whole mess. And O'Reily? I LOVE that guy. 60826 62 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 18:31:20 -0500669_us-ascii Maybe she would prefer NPR (National Palestinian Radio).

At 8:29 -0700 8/13/06, Sue Liberman wrote: >so what choices do you suggest? CNN???...or the >networks?....(aside form the net choices of Israeli >sources, of course)....sue > >--- Batel Libes wrote: > >> Re: Fox News and Iran: >> >> Sorry, but I just can't help myself saying: look at >> the source. I don't >> give much credence to anything Fox news says. >> Personally, Fox and news >> in the same breath is difficult to take. >> >> Batel >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> The HABONET mailing list is hosted by [...] 60889 89 18_Re: Prime Minister13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:17:59 -0400371_ISO-8859-1 Yes, I have a possible candidate. Moshe Ya'alon, the former Chief of Staff. Remember, he was on the outs with Sharon so Sharon didn't recommend that he serve another year. After reading most of what Ya'alon wrote and his political position, I believe he is the most capable for the job. Much more so than Olmert, definitely Peretz and the has been Peres. [...] 60979 75 14_Re: cease-fire13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:21:31 -0400277_ISO-8859-1 Steven, I'll take the bet. I can play the numbers game. Given the type of resolution that everyone saw fit to adopt, I'll say that we're back in the saddle after we get new leadership in the Knesset and after we re-arm. Let's say about 18 months, give or take. [...] 61055 49 6_Re: Me12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:38:03 -0700711_iso-8859-1 cool- give my regards to the Chesapeake Bay! ( my home town was Baltimore....graduated U of Md.)...sue

--- Marc Hershkowitz wrote:

> Sue, > I'm a Realtor in the residential market, licensed in > Maryland and Washington > DC. I live in Rockville, MD with my six year old > son. > > Marc > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 61105 83 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:16:02 -0700676_us-ascii maybe you can ask me directly what I prefer and not assume anything about me.

Batel

-----Original Message----- >From: David Ferri >Sent: Aug 13, 2006 4:31 PM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war > >Maybe she would prefer NPR (National Palestinian Radio). > >At 8:29 -0700 8/13/06, Sue Liberman wrote: >>so what choices do you suggest? CNN???...or the >>networks?....(aside form the net choices of Israeli >>sources, of course)....sue >> >>--- Batel Libes wrote: >> >>> Re: Fox News and Iran: >>> >>> Sorry, but I just can't help myself saying: look at >>> [...] 61189 21 21_Moshe Ya'alon for PM!16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 23:36:23 -0400463_- I second that. I knew Bogie when I was on workshop on Grofit in 1981-82. I didn't know him well, but have always very much respected him.

Marc Hershkowitz

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 61211 96 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:42:59 -0500689_us-ascii Do tell.

At 20:16 -0700 8/13/06, Batel Libes wrote: >maybe you can ask me directly what I prefer and not assume anything about me. > >Batel > >-----Original Message----- >>From: David Ferri >>Sent: Aug 13, 2006 4:31 PM >>To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >>Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war >> >>Maybe she would prefer NPR (National Palestinian Radio). >> >>At 8:29 -0700 8/13/06, Sue Liberman wrote: >>>so what choices do you suggest? CNN???...or the >>>networks?....(aside form the net choices of Israeli >>>sources, of course)....sue >>> >>>--- Batel Libes wrote: >>> >>>> Re: Fox News and Iran: >>>> >>>> [...] 61308 99 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 21:25:10 -0700624_iso-8859-1 Children, children. Isn't it bad enough that we call each other names. Now we jab at each other through our choice of news sources? Jeez, give it a rest! Or at least, keep it down while I listen to "All Things Considered." -Sharon

--- David Ferri wrote:

> Maybe she would prefer NPR (National Palestinian > Radio). > > At 8:29 -0700 8/13/06, Sue Liberman wrote: > >so what choices do you suggest? CNN???...or the > >networks?....(aside form the net choices of Israeli > >sources, of course)....sue > > > >--- Batel Libes wrote: > > > >> [...] 61408 130 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:09:19 -0700321_us-ascii I never said anything about Sue as can be read in my reply. My comment was about Fox news as a source. Sue replied very nicely asking for sources and also never made any comments about me as a person. David, however, decided to take a simple discussion and make it a personal one in the manner of his post. [...] 61539 147 43_Holocaust victims would decry the slaughter15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sun, 13 Aug 2006 22:40:47 -0700557_iso-8859-1 Forwarded article, with link. Not too long, and definitely worth pondering. David

> > > > By Silvia Tennenbaum > > > > Newsday - August 4, 2006 > > > > http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny-opten044839272aug04,0,2597237.story > > > > As a Jew who escaped the Holocaust by moving with my > > family to America in 1938, I turn on the BBC at night. > > And what I see are clouds of black smoke, explosions; > > the dead and the dying - children crying bitterly, > > cities in ruins. Only yesterday, these piles of rubble > > in Lebanon [...] 61687 300 40_Fw: Fw: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:57:25 +0400533_ISO-8859-1 You're right in that respect. There was a plate on President Truman's desk "The buck stops here"





arie

----- Original Message ----- From: amnon hadari Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 12:11 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Brad Burston on who wins the war





I think you are right about Mofaz and Chalutz. But the ultimate buck stops at the PM's office door. If you know those are your drum major bagpipe player and how badly they play don't enter a drum and pipe competition (war)-- [...] 61988 52 27_Fw: Question about an image11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 11:04:27 +0400360_ISO-8859-1 I see nothing unusual about this. The pictorial history of modern warfare is full of pictures of bombs and artillery shell with a large assortment of messages written or drawn on them

arie ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 2:44 AM Subject: Re: Question about an image [...] 62041 175 54_Bradley Burston/ Postwar test: Are you an anti-Semite?16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 05:13:52 -0700553_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=%20750345&contrassID=2

Postwar self test: Are you an anti-Semite? By Bradley Burston

One of the more fruitless debates between critics and supporters of Israel, is where to draw the line between candid criticism of Israeli policy, and anti-Semitism.

As a public service, we present the following post war self-test, to assist readers in placing themselves along the continuum which stretches from taking rational issue with Israeli policy, and ends in Jew-hate. [...] 62217 153 38_YNET/ Yair Lapid/ So calm down already16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 05:22:51 -07001059_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3290883,00.html

So calm down already

Hysterical people always vacillate between depression and insanity. Please don't be hysterical. Be completely honest: How will we remember this operation?

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} [...] 62371 299 52_Fwd: Re: Holocaust victims would decry the slaughter12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 09:23:17 -0700481_iso-8859-1



Note: forwarded message attached.

--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

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62671 176 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:50:23 -0400396_us-ascii The comment's about NPR and Bill O'Reilly and Fox indicate that you are not so much as a fan of Israel but an right wing fanatic. In my opinion you have very poor taste and your comments are in poor taste.



-----Original Message----- From: david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 7:31 PM Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war [...] 62848 24 31_Re: Fw: Question about an image12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:58:38 -0400332_us-ascii > I see nothing unusual about this. The pictorial history of modern > warfare is full of pictures of bombs and artillery shell with a large > assortment of messages written or drawn on them

I don't know about others, but in the past I've seen pictures of soldiers writing messages on bombs, but never children. [...] 62873 176 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:23:17 -0400445_us-ascii





-----Original Message----- From: newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:25 AM Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war



Children, children. Isn't it bad enough that we call each other names. Now we jab at each other through our choice of news sources? Jeez, give it a rest! Or at least, keep it down while I listen to "All Things Considered." -Sharon [...] 63050 78 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:23:29 -0700548_iso-8859-1 WHy do you INSIST on name-calling and degrading people when in the same breath you claim ( as you said to me privately) that you do not consider yourself the politcal GURU of Habonet ( then you act that way). I also happen to love Bill O'Reilly and think he was one of the few commentators who stated Israel's truth when no one else would dare stand up to the idiots who placed blame on the victims and he was relentless in this. You have no right to make such blatent generalizations about someone else's taste when you don't even [...] 63129 25 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:50:52 -0400350_us-ascii > I also happen to love Bill O'Reilly and think he was one > of the few commentators who stated Israel's truth when > no one else would dare stand up to the idiots who placed > blame on the victims and he was relentless in this.

If O'Reilly was "stating Israel's truth," it was the first time in his career that he wasn't lying. [...] 63155 109 33_"AIn CHadash tachat ha Shamesh"--12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:59:32 -0700549_iso-8859-1



Look when this was written - 1968!

Do you remember Eric Hoffer? He was a longshoreman who turned into a philosopher, wrote columns for newspapers and some books. Eric Hoffer was a non-Jewish American social philosopher. He was born in 1902 and died in 1983, after writing nine books and winning the Presidential Medal of Freedom. His first book, The True Believer, published in 1951, was widely recognized as a classic. If I remember correctly, he even taught at U.C.L.A. Here is one of his columns from 1968. [...] 63265 152 23_Last War was cease-fire12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:39:32 -0400 63418 221 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:01:30 -0400332_us-ascii

NPR = National Palestinean Radio Those are fighting words. Kind of crude don't you think? That kind of talk indicates a hijacking of the situation in Israel to attack an organization that I tend to feel is very important. Using this situation to demonize non right wing organization is a very dangerous trend. [...] 63640 113 37_Re: Last War was cease-fire- "V'ulai"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 12:03:39 -0700437_iso-8859-1 Well- this is my own silly, unknowledgable take: 1. It may be possible to forge some kind of a peace out since there are examples with Egypt and somewhat with Jordan- I know of some humanitarian and cultural exchanges going on with Jordan- especially with Cerebral Palsy and medical cooperative ventures, which could lead to more things...This could certainly be done in Lebanon if the Hezzies get out of the picture.... [...] 63754 145 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 14:10:28 -0500571_us-ascii Hi Batel,

The comment was meant to be sarcastic, not personal. For that I apologize. I really would like to hear why you don't give much credence to what Fox News says and I suspect others would like to hear as well. After all, you offered.

Regards, David

At 22:09 -0700 8/13/06, Batel Libes wrote: >I never said anything about Sue as can be read in my reply. My comment >was about Fox news as a source. Sue replied very nicely asking for >sources and also never made any comments about me as a person. David, >however, decided to take [...] 63900 26 11_Ahmadinejad12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:05:55 -0400364_us-ascii > 4. I watched Mike Wallace's interview with Aminajad...they > guy's got to go...I have a feeling that there will be stirrings > of some kind of student revolt there soon- maybe not

I have a few Iranian friends. They tell me that in general the Mullahs are very unpopular, but every time Bush rattles his sabre the public rallies behind them. [...] 63927 173 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:11:09 -0700518_us-ascii OK, I'll bite (though I don't recall offering).

Without being specific for the discussion about Israel, Fox network is extremely one-sided in its coverage of news. The manner by which it allows its correspondents to conduct discussions is extremely unprofessional and does not allow for proper coverage of news. Though it might have been better in covering the current situation, it does not change the fact that as a network, it is not very objective for anything other than right-wing politics. [...] 64101 27 14_bumper sticker11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 17:35:13 -0400563_ISO-8859-1 I picked up my kid from the Mosh bus yesterday. Those of you who haven't had kids go to camp lately may not be aware that the "fashion" for many years has been to decorate trunks with bumper sticks--funny, political, Hebrew, band decals, skateboard decal, whatever. Anyway, there was a trunk with just one very old bumper sticker, probably from an older sibling. It was a pre-2000 Peace Now sticker that said "Ima, Itzati milebanon." It made me shudder to think of all the mothers again waiting for the phone to ring so they can hear those words. [...] 64129 53 18_Re: bumper sticker11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:06:27 -0400406_us-ascii What do the words on the bumper sticker mean?

BTW from 2000-2002 I worked at a camp called Circle Pines Center (not too far from Tavor, actually), and one of the counselors had a bumper sticker that said, "Sorry I missed church. I was too busy practicing witchcraft and becoming a lesbian." Now that's a hilarious bumper sticker. Sadly, it's based upon words uttered by Pat Robertson. [...] 64183 41 19_About "Who won"....12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:36:12 -0700515_iso-8859-1 I think it is pretty tragic to think of wars as a game of winners and losers. The only good thing to come out of a war is if humanity has grown in some way to learn to compromise about our differences. To think in terms of we won, or we lost, or they won, or they lost, is keeping us in a a place we should have grown out of many centuries ago. The truth is, I really- and maybe this is a "girl thing"- don't get it- bombs, killing, destruction, etc etc usually getting nowhere. Isn't there someone [...] 64225 1262 34_[QUAR] Fw: TPA (FOR SAFER FLIGHTS)14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 02:09:29 +0200521_ISO-8859-1



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Why keep checking for Mail? The all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta shows you when there are new messages. [...] 65488 72 18_Re: bumper sticker11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 18:38:17 -0400614_ISO-8859-1 It means "Mom, I've left Lebanon". In other words, you don't have to worry , I'm safe. Judy

Julie Esris wrote:

>What do the words on the bumper sticker mean? > >BTW from 2000-2002 I worked at a camp called Circle Pines Center (not too >far from Tavor, actually), and one of the counselors had a bumper sticker >that said, "Sorry I missed church. I was too busy practicing witchcraft and >becoming a lesbian." Now that's a hilarious bumper sticker. Sadly, it's >based upon words uttered by Pat Robertson. > >J. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 65561 311 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 16:49:35 -0700453_iso-8859-1

Sue

It is really too bad that some minds close up and stay closed to new situations. Whatever the past has been with O'Reilly and Fox News, there is a heck of a lot of difference between the way Fox is currently covering the conflict and the way CNN is. CNN has spent hour after hour telling us how much the poor Lebanese are suffering, while giving little or no coverage to the Israeli side of the suffering and turmoil. [...] 65873 199 36_Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Mon, 14 Aug 2006 20:07:47 -0500536_us-ascii Hi Batel,

Thanks for expanding on your approach to your choice of news outlets.

I used to be a news junkie. Nightline every night, NPR in the evenings during the commute home, local news at 10:00 PM (I'm in Chicago) and the local all news radio station when in the car. I few years ago I turned just about all of it off. I read the Wall Street Journal every day and still listen to the all news station on the radio when in the car, but and even that is mostly for traffic reports. But that's about it. It's [...] 66073 148 26_Just stand up and complain11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 01:40:48 -0400272_us-ascii I'm making some Galil DVDs based on footage that I shot while there back in the 90s, for those of you who haven't heard.here is the intro to the set. basically me making fun of Bush and then going on to say I wasn't a always a cynical New Yorker. Enjoy! :-) [...] 66222 41 18_the saddest moment16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 04:55:16 -0400563_iso-8859-1 The saddest moment of this war for me was when I heard that David Grossman's son had fallen. I'm not sure why, but for some reason this particular piece of news made me feel heartsick. It brought home the tragedy of all the parents and wives and children who lost sons, husbands and fathers in this war. There is the bitter irony that Uri Grossman and others were killed in action after the cease-fire had already been decided on or that his father had at first supported the war and then changed his mind in a widely publicized announcement only [...] 66264 22 22_Re: the saddest moment12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 05:27:57 -0400 66287 228 22_Re: the saddest moment0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:08:02 -0400443_us-ascii Avi - very well put. As I watched the Israeli troops pour into Lebanon after the ceasefire was announced I said to Nancy, my wife, that somehow I felt even worse for the families who lose someone in those 48 hours or so. Then it turned out that one of them was Grossman's son, and as you wrote, he had just publicly called for the immediate ceasefire. There is indeed something painfully symbolic about Uri Grossman's Z"L death. [...] 66516 184 23_Re: About "Who won"....11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:16:16 -0400578_us-ascii Sue, very nicely put.....I also wonder how this will all impact on my six year old grandson. Sylvia Lask



-----Original Message----- From: fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 6:36 PM Subject: About "Who won"....



I think it is pretty tragic to think of wars as a game of winners and losers. The only good thing to come out of a war is if humanity has grown in some way to learn to compromise about our differences. To think in terms of we won, or we lost, or they won, or they lost, is keeping us in a a [...] 66701 166 14_Re: FOX "NEWS"16_Katherine Lavine26_holycowfoods@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:28:29 -0700594_US-ASCII David, check out the documentary "Outfoxed" for a critical look at Fox "News". I believe it's readily available, but Netflix has it for sure. Kathee



> [Original Message] > From: David Ferri > To: > Date: 8/14/2006 12:38:21 PM > Subject: Re: Brad Burston on who wins the war > > Hi Batel, > > The comment was meant to be sarcastic, not personal. For that I apologize. I really would like to hear why you don't give much credence to what Fox News says and I suspect others would like to hear as well. After all, you [...] 66868 71 5_Shoes12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 08:30:23 -0700560_iso-8859-1 A few months ago, Oprah WInfrey devoted a show to a visit to Auschwitz along with Elie Weieel. One of the most poignant moments, when I actually broke down, was when they walked by an exhibition of all of the collected shoes, and Wiesel started to talk about the question of who walked in those shoes ( they were shoes of children) and who they might have become had they lived...a Salk, someone who was a great artist, someone who might discover the cure for cancer. It was one of those "what if" moments that had such power....the picture of [...] 66940 243 37_Fw: "AIn CHadash tachat ha Shamesh"--11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:18:57 +0400657_ISO-8859-1 you forgot the Christians driven out the west bank

arie ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: "AIn CHadash tachat ha Shamesh"--







Look when this was written - 1968!

Do you remember Eric Hoffer? He was a longshoreman who turned into a philosopher, wrote columns for newspapers and some books. Eric Hoffer was a non-Jewish American social philosopher. He was born in 1902 and died in 1983, after writing nine books and winning the Presidential Medal of Freedom. His first book, The True Believer, published in 1951, was widely recognized as a [...] 67184 5050 7_Fw: Fw:11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:18:44 -0700291_windows-1255

----- Original Message ----- From: aviva shavit To: rena ; gidi eden ; ruti shalgi ; tami ; ron perry ; ravik zeram ; steve klein ; yaeli ; danny ; hanan ; Rachel Tal ; lisa ; kippy ; judy ; ben ; sam mintz ; leslie Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:04 AM Subject: Fw: [...] 72235 410 29_Fw: Dearbornistan Terror Boys11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:28:13 -0700534_Windows-1252 Subscriber Email Of interest

Steve













Brigitte Gabriel







Dearbornistan Terror Boys

Dear Harry and Doris,



Dearbornistan Terror Boys: A Frightening Update; Mother Works @ Airport; Cheers for Ohio Officials, Jeers for Feds By Debbie Schlussel

Why is the mother of a terrorist working at the airport? And why does she have passenger lists and info on airport security? Why did she give them to her son? [...] 72646 91 13_Re: Film clip11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:29:48 -0700632_iso-8859-1 Y

What was the subject heading?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuval Warshai" To: Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 2:08 PM Subject: Re: Film clip



> Dear Judy, > > Even if Steve Klein did not put the lying, slanderous title on the > message, he still forwarded it to this list without any regard whatsoever > for any truthfulness or fairness. As far as I am concerned this is his > common attitude to the volumes of garbage he clutters this list with > daily, by far above and beyond what any other list members does. [...] 72738 170 14_Re: FOX "NEWS"0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:33:29 -0400645_us-ascii









David, check out the documentary "Outfoxed" for a critical look at Fox "News". I believe it's readily available, but Netflix has it for sure. Kathee

This movie is a classic.I think that all those who are watching Fox ought to at least make an attempt to see this movie. Fox's lack of any journalistic standards is made clear in this presentation. The interviews with former Fox comentators present a picture of a network deliberately trying to distort the truth. I find it totally scary that people are linking getting Israel's story out with Fox. The movie again is called Outfoxxed [...] 72909 71 13_Re: Film clip11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:33:52 -0700632_iso-8859-1 Yuval

What in hell are you talking about?!

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuval Warshai" To: Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Film clip



> Judy, > > The title is more than obnoxious. It is inciteful, hateful, and > slanderous. It has nothing to do whatsoever with the contents of the clip. > It was not even the title given by whoever created it, of course, The > title was added by Mr. Klein out of hateful, contemptible incitement > instinct. > > It is really not a 'film' clip, just a collage [...] 72981 92 14_Re: FOX "NEWS"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:44:56 -0700571_iso-8859-1 And this morning, it was FOX, and NOT CNN, which broke the story about the Hezbollah PR person who posed as a dead man,.and who orchestrated photo ops during this war foa dead boy being loaded into an ambulance multiple times "for the camera"----I am not saying anyof these networks are perfect, but in this "war"- i believe that Fox is the "winner" ( call me names, I don't care) (Note the heavy reliance on CNN of footage re : the Lebanese slaughter and destruction of Lebanese this and that, and very little on Israel, the suffering of the population, [...] 73074 268 0_0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:46:37 -0400558_us-ascii



A careful review of Steve Klein's posting will reveal that this is not a supportive joke for Israel but a vicious attack on the New York Times' current editiors. I read the NYT every day and I have not found them to be anti Israel. I have also seen the Web site where this was taken from. It is full of really vicious propoganda. I am stunned that these kind of attacks on the New York Times continue to come from certain people. It is particularly ironic that these same folks seem to have fun watching Bill O'Reilly. What are [...] 73343 39 16_[BULK] Apologies12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 11:50:15 -0700393_iso-8859-1 I have to apologize for my typos and the misspelling of Uri Grossman's, z"l< name ( I left off the "man")...I am an editor and I often proof other people's stuff--and I should do it to my own stuff...I find that my mind works faster than my fingers..so I don't often catch things or type correctly- don't know if this is a function of "senior moments" or something else....sue [...] 73383 107 0_11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:02:37 -0400539_us-ascii Heh, funny. Somebody I work with won't read the NY Times b/c they're "anti-Israel." Know what she reads instead? The NY POST (it's a TABLOID)! :P ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 2:46 pm > > > A careful review of Steve Klein's posting will reveal that this > is not a supportive joke for Israel but a vicious attack on the > New York Times' current editiors. I read the NYT every day and I > have not found them to be anti Israel. I have also seen the Web > site where this [...] 73491 175 16_Re: (no subject)0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:09:06 -0400576_us-ascii





-----Original Message----- From: jesris@OPTONLINE.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 3:02 PM Subject: (no subject)



Heh, funny. Somebody I work with won't read the NY Times b/c they're "anti-Israel." Know what she reads instead? The NY POST (it's a TABLOID)! :P

These same people would not want to read the Israeli press. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [...] 73667 82 16_Re: (no subject)11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:29:26 -0400653_us-ascii Why? ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM Date: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 3:09 pm Subject: Re: (no subject) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: jesris@OPTONLINE.NET > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 3:02 PM > Subject: (no subject) > > > Heh, funny. Somebody I work with won't read the NY Times b/c > they're "anti-Israel." Know what she reads instead? The NY POST > (it's a TABLOID)! :P > > These same people would not want to read the Israeli press. > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, > email [...] 73750 29 19_Re: Steve's message12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:39:52 -0400429_us-ascii > A careful review of Steve Klein's posting will reveal that > this is not a supportive joke for Israel but a vicious attack > on the New York Times' current editiors. I read the NYT > every day and I have not found them to be anti Israel.

Sam,

I rarely defend Steve. but the message he sent had been sent to the list within the past four or five days. If it wasn't worthy of your bile then, why now? [...] 73780 24 16_Re: (no subject)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 15:44:26 -0400385_us-ascii >> These same people would not want to read the Israeli press. > >Why?

If I may answer for Sam, because most American Jews have no idea that Israeli newspapers express a wide range of political opinions, many of which are considered heretical and treasonous by American Jews of the ilk who would boycott the New York Times because of a perceived anti-Israel bias. [...] 73805 166 21_Fwd: JEWISH/ARAB NEWS0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:15:06 EDT563_US-ASCII I can't take credit for the joke (ahem) below, but I thought it summed up the discussion about Fox News and the media quite succinctly. Hank Albert

In a message dated 8/15/06 3:46:36 PM, hbcutler@yahoo.com writes: > ARAB NEWSPAPERS: > A story is told of a Jewish man who was riding on the subway reading an Arab > newspaper. A friend of his, who happened to be riding in the same subway > car, noticed this strange phenomenon. Very upset, he approached the newspaper > reader. > > "Moshe, have you lost your mind? Why are you reading an Arab [...] 73972 79 13_Re: Film clip13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:19:27 -0400533_iso-8859-1 Hell? You're right, you are hell for me in this list. If you don't know what I am talking about you must be either stupid, or ...? stupid? I think I described the orthodox propaganda film clip you forwarded to this list in my two messages to Judy regarding it pretty accurately. At least, for someone with an average IQ to be able to discern and find what I am talking about. Especially if it was that same person who knew how to spread the shit around to begin with. So you know pretty well how to clutter this list [...] 74052 2015 31_[QUAR] NY TIMES [not] from 194316_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:19:02 -0400420_us-ascii













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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 76294 24 7_Dayenu!12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 16:45:22 -0400508_us-ascii The mock New York Times front page has been sent to Habonet *three* times now.

Come on, folks. Enough already.

Or do we need it a fourth time for "She'eyno yodeya lish'ol"?

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 76319 119 13_Re: Film clip12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 14:05:28 -0700554_iso-8859-1 Calm down, Yuval, we don't want you to have a stroke. I think we should all try to be a little more understanding of Steve -- it appears he may be experiencing some serious memory failures. And while many people manage to cover up such failures, Steve apparently has also lost the coping mechanism of checking his "Sent" folder or the Habonet archives to see what he has written. Instead he just lets it all hang out to the whole list by asking us all what he said. I've been told by usually reliable sources that Steve is an intelligent [...] 76439 101 13_Re: Film clip11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 18:16:11 -0400617_us-ascii Yoval, I stopped reading your post when you started with the personal attack. Kind of sad because you might have had something worthy for me to read.

Everyone, we are all tense right now, however, must we use this kind of language here?

Batel -----Original Message----- >From: Yuval Warshai >Sent: Aug 15, 2006 4:19 PM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Film clip > >Hell? You're right, you are hell for me in this list. If you don't know what >I am talking about you must be either stupid, or ...? stupid? I think I >described the orthodox propaganda film clip [...] 76541 70 21_"the lieberman issue"11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 22:41:04 -0400502_iso-8859-1 I think it is a shanda that the man is running now as an independent. Seems contrary to the idea of running in the Democratic primary. Running in the primary to me carries the implicit agreement that if you lose you get behind the party nominee, just as you would want if you won. This (running as an independent after losing the primary) just clarifies to me that Joe Lieberman is all about Joe Lieberman. God forbid the Senate stays Republican because he took votes away from Lamont. [...] 76612 317 35_So, Osama walks into this bar, see?11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 21:54:50 -0600587_us-ascii



SO OSAMA WALKS INTO TO THIS BAR, SEE?



by Greg Palast Monday August 14, 2006

So, Osama Walks into This Bar, See? and Bush says, "Whad'l'ya have, pardner?" and Osama says...

But wait a minute. I'd better shut my mouth. The sign here in the airport says, "Security is no joking matter." But if security's no joking matter, why does this guy dressed in a high-school marching band outfit tell me to dump my Frappuccino and take off my shoes? All I can say is, Thank the Lord the "shoe bomber" didn't carry Semtex in his underpants. [...] 76930 295 25_Re: "the lieberman issue"11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 15 Aug 2006 23:33:01 -0600565_iso-8859-1 At 10:41 PM 8/15/2006 -0400, Noam Stopak wrote: >I think it is a shanda that the man is running now as an >independent. Seems contrary to the idea of running in the Democratic >primary. Running in the primary to me carries the implicit agreement that >if you lose you get behind the party nominee, just as you would want if >you won. This (running as an independent after losing the primary) just >clarifies to me that Joe Lieberman is all about Joe Lieberman. God forbid >the Senate stays Republican because he took votes away from Lamont. > >Noam [...] 77226 128 23_Jabotinsky and Hatikvah12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 03:08:18 -0400 77355 1605 17_Saved by the boob8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:26:04 +0200380_us-ascii



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 78961 77 10_On the war8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:40:53 +0200578_us-ascii

Two critical examinations of the war:

http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/060725_benari_commentary.pdf

http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/060725_israel_performance.pdf





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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 79039 63 18_Benny Morris Redux0_22_sambergman@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:36:59 +0000524_- I have just returned from several weeks in Israel. I won't bother going into the general unanimity among almost all of my leftist and rightist friends regarding the war and the deep sense of sadness about near term prospects. I visited Benny Morris (who spent some years in American Habonim when his father was Consul General in New York, so some of you may know him). Our discussions reminded me of Ari Shavit's interview of Benny published in Haaretz 30 months ago (apologies if this has been posted previously) -- [...] 79103 323 27_Re: Jabotinsky and Hatikvah11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:49:35 -0400650_utf-8 Amnon, thank for sharing. I know there is a meaning. I hope everyone can pick this up. Sylvia



-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 3:08 AM Subject: Jabotinsky and Hatikvah





Haverot/im After the Yom Kippur War I took a sabbatical from my editing job at the Hasbarah Dept at the Jewish Agency and undertook to head up an institute for Jewish Zionist education run by the Government Education Ministry. After that war there was a feeling that young people didn't have a broad enough grounding for a sense of what we are doing here. Almost [...] 79427 405 25_Re: "the lieberman issue"11_Sylvia Lask14_smlbov@AOL.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 07:56:26 -0400341_utf-8 Noam, there are times when the best person loses the primary and continues to go and has to run even as an independent. I know that when I lost my last election (had run for 16 years and won), if I had the chance I probably would have tried. Until you have been involved in the backroom politics, it is difficult to judge. Sylvia [...] 79833 115 37_Bradley Burston/ Israel needs a purge16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 06:04:28 -0700425_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/751285.html

Israel needs a purge By Bradley Burston

War, like all obscenities, breeds perversion.

Much as we have grown to know war, we were still shocked by the perversity of the one man whose job it is in wartime to most directly inspire nobility, unity of purpose, trust, sensitivity to comrades, reasoned judgment under fire and, above all, focus. [...] 79949 138 22_Re: Benny Morris Redux12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 10:04:09 -0400 80088 111 25_Re: "the lieberman issue"12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:12:39 -0700599_iso-8859-1 Of course, none of us knows the whole story and there are always explanations. But accepting the results of a properly run election is one of the underpinnings of the American system of governance. We are seeing more and more examples of people who are willing to play by the rules as long as they win, but then go outside the rules when they lose: primary losers running as independents, term-limited officials running write-in campaigns, recall campaigns against officials who just won their office, etc. This is just bullying in the political arena. "Do what I want or else." Yet [...] 80200 47 21_Re: Saved by the boob12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 08:13:19 -0700748_iso-8859-1 Translation please?

Jon Baum wrote: <<...>>

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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 80248 484 52_Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:00:52 -0700704_iso-8859-1 ah bissel historiyeh Does anyone have the continuation of this list after Nov. 2005?

Steve



Subject: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten



Courtesy of fellow Iranian activist and author Amil Imani

History of Hezbollah/al Qaeda/ and other Anti-American Attacks on the United States

a.. June 5, 1968: Presidential candidate Robert Kennedy was assassinated by Sirhan Sirhan, a Jordanian Arab-Palestinian. b.. June 17, 1969: An American tourist was killed when the PLO shelled the Israeli resort town of Kallia. c.. February 21, 1970: Islamist terrorists blew up an Israel-bound Swiss jet killing seven Americans. d.. February 23, [...] 80733 224 63_[BULK] Re: Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:13:40 -0400567_us-ascii You also forgot to mention that El Al was hijacked in 1968 by Muslim extremists... COME ON! What is the POINT of sending this stuff all the time? We KNOW that there are Muslim extremists... what are you trying to prove?? ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 2:00 pm Subject: Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten > ah bissel historiyeh > Does anyone have the continuation of this list after Nov. 2005? > > Steve > > > Subject: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have [...] 80958 50 43_[BULK] Foreign Ministry call for assistance16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:17:00 -0700605_iso-8859-1 Dear friends, Many of us recognize the importance of the Internet as the new battleground for Israel 's image. It's time to do it better, and coordinate our on-line efforts on behalf of Israel . An Israeli software company have developed a free, safe and useful tool for us - the Internet Megaphone. Please go to www.giyus.org , download the Megaphone , and you will receive daily updates with instant links to important internet polls, problematic articles that require a talk back, etc. We need 100,000 Megaphone users to make a difference. So, please distribute this mail to all Israel [...] 81009 845 23_Fw: really worth a read11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:17:33 -0700434_iso-8859-1

If you read nothing else. . . .

Steve



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 81855 46 43_Steve's Forwarded Messages (Was: Film clip)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:18:27 -0400440_us-ascii > I think we should all try to be a little more understanding of Steve > -- it appears he may be experiencing some serious memory failures. > And while many people manage to cover up such failures, Steve > apparently has also lost the coping mechanism of checking his "Sent" > folder or the Habonet archives to see what he has written. Instead > he just lets it all hang out to the whole list by asking us all what he > said. [...] 81902 99 13_Re: Film clip11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:21:22 -0700611_iso-8859-1 Garbabe?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuval Warshai" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Film clip



> Hell? You're right, you are hell for me in this list. If you don't know > what I am talking about you must be either stupid, or ...? stupid? I think > I described the orthodox propaganda film clip you forwarded to this list > in my two messages to Judy regarding it pretty accurately. At least, for > someone with an average IQ to be able to discern and find what I am > talking [...] 82002 101 13_Re: Film clip11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:22:56 -0700618_iso-8859-1 Yuval

So, what was the answer to my question?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuval Warshai" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2006 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Film clip



> Hell? You're right, you are hell for me in this list. If you don't know > what I am talking about you must be either stupid, or ...? stupid? I think > I described the orthodox propaganda film clip you forwarded to this list > in my two messages to Judy regarding it pretty accurately. At least, for > someone with an average IQ to be able to [...] 82104 501 46_[QUAR] Re: So, Osama walks into this bar, see?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:09:23 -0700362_iso-8859-1 Phil

Please put me down for one of those that are "buying", along with the Brits that recently got bombed in the subways ("INFIDELS OUT OF THE SUBWAYS !),

AND THE PEOPLE ON THE AIRPLANES TARGETED LAST WEEK FOR DEMOLITION BY THE LOVELY PEOPLE YOU ARE GIVING A PASS TO. (sORRY wASN'T YELLING. fORGOT TO TURN OFF the capital letters). [...] 82606 28 13_Re: Film clip12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 14:33:39 -0400554_us-ascii > So, what was the answer to my question?

Steve,

Your message, which linked to film clip of images of the war in Lebanon, was titled "Fw: results of the peace now war".

Some of us found that title offensive. Obviously Yuval was very vocal about his feelings.

David

PS - Does your e-mail program keep copies of the messages you send in a folder called "Sent" or "Sent Items"? Do you know how to search the Habonet archives? You really shouldn't have to ask the list about the messages you send to Habonet. [...] 82635 292 13_Re: Film clip11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 11:34:36 -0700629_iso-8859-1

Sharon

First of all, who is this "we"?

Second, who among our age group is immune from the dreaded CRS?

Steve







Calm down, Yuval, we don't want you to have a stroke. -Sharon

Yuval Warshai wrote: Hell? You're right, you are hell for me in this list. If you don't know what I am talking about you must be either stupid, or ...? stupid? I think I described the orthodox propaganda film clip you forwarded to this list in my two messages to Judy regarding it pretty accurately. At least, for someone with an average IQ to be able [...] 82928 146 21_Re: Saved by the boob8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:54:15 +0200720_us-ascii http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060815/od_nm/mideast_implants_dc

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon Gates Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:13 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Saved by the boob



Translation please?

Jon Baum wrote:

<<...>> _____

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network , a service of Hebrew College , which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 83075 88 13_No Cedar Tree12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:40:50 -0400 83164 122 56_Re: Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 13:42:56 -0700521_iso-8859-1 Calling these incidents "anti-American attacks on the United States" because Americans happened to be among the dead is like saying the 2004 tsunami was a disaster for the U.S. I have to infer that an attempt is being made to cause the (presumably American) reader to believe that an attack on Israel is an attack on the United States. While I believe that the interests of Israel and of the U.S. often coincide, it is dillusional to believe that Israel and the U.S. are actually the same entity. -Sharon [...] 83287 252 56_Re: Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:49:52 -0400625_us-ascii I am also fed up with how this country in general...though most often the Christian right... describes things with the word "American" thrown in there as if it's something unique to America... ie the All American Family, anti-American, and so forth. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:42 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten > Calling these incidents "anti-American attacks on the United > States" because Americans happened to be among the dead is like > saying the 2004 tsunami was a disaster for the [...] 83540 72 17_Fw: forward it on11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:32:48 -0700649_windows-1255

----- My response to the creators of the Holocaust cartoon contest were nowhere near showing their bad taste, given who they were.

Steve





Let the organizer of the Iranian holocaust cartoon contest, Masoud Shojai, know what you think about his deplorable "contest". http://ws.giyus.org/points/point?id=140#

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 83613 103 18_Foment in Michigan11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 17:41:38 -0700636_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:52 AM



www.debbieschlussel.com

www.debbiedoespolitics.com

A "right-wing" site you will not want to miss, no matter what your persuasion.

I heard her on the radio yesterday talking about her infiltration of modques and the pro-Hezbollah rallies in the Detroit/ Dearborn areas. Chilling and spellbinding, including local and governmental collusion in support of very hateful and illegal activities by a new fifth-column here among us, alive and well (and getting weller). [...] 83717 598 67_Re: [BULK] Re: Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:33:20 -0700384_iso-8859-1 Julie

Excellent question. Answer: Not trying to prove anything. I was trying to explain the reason for once again sending this in the subject line (not that I wrote it). A lot of us out here act as if the events on the list maybe never really happened, and seem to have allowed them to fade into the little picture album of "stuff that doesn't matter anymore". [...] 84316 61 28_Debbie Schlussel: Print This11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:49:02 -0700464_iso-8859-1 Please help by contacting the White House about this sleazebucket.



http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/001014print.html

Steve

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84378 878 67_Re: [BULK] Re: Fw: Fw: A Bit of History That You May Have Forgotten11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:58:51 -0400555_us-ascii Nobody is disputing that these events happened and that they were awful. Don't forget, I'm a New Yorker, and I was in Brooklyn on 9/11. Safe from harm, of course, but also able to see the smoke. I climbed on top of Pratt Institute's main building that evening and took photographs. I still look at them and can't believe what I'm looking at. I sometimes have dreams about being near or in the Twin Towers on 9/11. And yes, 9/11 isn't isolated. Here (according to the one good history teacher I actually had) is the chain reaction of events: [...] 85257 224 32_Re: Debbie Schlussel: Print This11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:00:44 -0400466_us-ascii More right wing propaganda. if you want to point out something about a "sleazebucket," mailing an article that calls names and sounds very accusing doesn't help. It just comes across as propaganda, and nothing more.





_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Klein Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:49 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Debbie Schlussel: Print This [...] 85482 124 36_The stars come out -- one is missing16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:07:40 -0400686_us-ascii

Nu, so where's Mel Gibson? In rehab, one presumes.

Kidman condemns Hamas, Hezbollah From correspondents in Los Angeles August 17, 2006 08:51am Article from: AAP Font size: + - Send this article: Print Email NICOLE Kidman has made a public stand against terrorism. The actress, joined by 84 other high-profile Hollywood stars, directors, studio bosses and media moguls, has taken out a powerfully-worded full page advertisement in today's Los Angeles Times newspaper. It specifically targets "terrorist organisations" such as Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Palestine. "We the undersigned are pained and devastated by the civilian casualties in Israel and [...] 85607 98 40_Re: The stars come out -- one is missing12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:27:46 -0700591_iso-8859-1 My boss, Phil Blazer, was the one behind that ad...sue

--- "Elihu D. Davison" wrote:

> > Nu, so where's Mel Gibson? In rehab, one presumes. > > Kidman condemns Hamas, Hezbollah > From correspondents in Los Angeles > August 17, 2006 08:51am > Article from: AAP > Font size: > + > - > Send this article: > Print > Email > NICOLE Kidman has made a public stand against > terrorism. > The actress, joined by 84 other high-profile > Hollywood stars, > directors, studio bosses and media moguls, has > taken out a > powerfully-worded full [...] 85706 115 39_Re: So, Osama walks into this bar, see?13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:40:53 EDT483_US-ASCII Dear Phil,

What a great article. I think it's half right, anyway. "Owner class" is downright astute. That the hyper-rich make a fortune is for sure. And of course direct how money is spent. That's just what they do, and seems like how they see the world and how to live fulfilled life. I don't get it. Fear and patriotism sell. It strikes me that the notion of colllusion between Al Qaeda and Bush, et al is far-fetched, but what do we peons really get to know. [...] 85822 129 43_Re: The stars come out -- one is missing-PS12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:13:45 -0700572_iso-8859-1 Actually- he worked toegtehr with Branko Lustig who produced Shindler's List, and Gladiator...They also tried to eget speilberg to sign, but I don't think he did..s --- Sue Liberman wrote:

> My boss, Phil Blazer, was the one behind that > ad...sue > > --- "Elihu D. Davison" > wrote: > > > > > Nu, so where's Mel Gibson? In rehab, one > presumes. > > > > Kidman condemns Hamas, Hezbollah > > From correspondents in Los Angeles > > August 17, 2006 08:51am > > Article from: AAP > > Font size: > > + [...] 85952 60 18_Hezbollah and POWs13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 07:47:48 -0700350_iso-8859-1

I don't have the time or internet access I used to so maybe these issues have been covered and I missed 'em but I was wondering the following:

1. Hezbollah is constantly referred to as a terrorist organization by nearly everyone can someone explain why? Ambushing Israeli soldiers doesn't seem to qualify as terrorism. [...] 86013 237 22_Re: Hezbollah and POWs0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 11:04:02 -0400576_us-ascii Richard:

I will put this very simply. Hezbullah is not the army of a country that shares a border with Israel and chose to cross the border and start a war by ambushing soldiers. Rather, they are a private militia operating in Lebanese territory due to the weakness of that government. They have along history of cross border terrorist activites which leads me to your second question. I can not answer it definitively, but I do know that the main prisoner they want back is a poster boy for terrorism. His name is Samir Kunter and he crossed into Israel [...] 86251 71 22_Re: Foment in Michigan12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:10:42 -0700372_iso-8859-1 Fifth column, fifth column...where have I heard that before?

I must admit that I'm writing this without having actually listened to Debbie Schlussel (I have way better things to do with my time, thank you), but I agree with Voltaire (or whoever really said it) that "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it." [...] 86323 41 51_another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:14:00 -0700301_iso-8859-1 Hey, Steve- I heard a story on the radio this morning (yes, NPR) about a bombing of a Hindu shrine in India and an American may have been among the casualties. Does that make attacks on Hindus in India attacks on the United States? If it does, your list could get really long. -Sharon [...] 86365 227 22_Re: Hezbollah and POWs8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 19:11:42 +02001107_us-ascii Hizb'allah as a terrorist organization:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2005/Summary+of+Terrorist+Act ivity+2004.htm

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/rls/rpt/fto/2801.htm#hizballah

http://www.aph.gov.au/Library/pubs/rn/2002-03/03rn42.htm

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/hizballah.htm

http://www.hirhome.com/israel/hezbollah2.htm

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/terrorism-and-the-law/terrorism-act/pr oscribed-groups



Lebanese prisoners in Israel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_prisoners_in_Israel

http://www.arabmediawatch.com/amw/CountryBackgrounds/Lebanon/Lebaneseprisone rsinIsrael/tabid/321/Default.aspx

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of richard smith Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 4:48 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Hezbollah and POWs





I don't have the time or internet access I used to so maybe these issues have been covered and I missed 'em but I was wondering the following: [...] 86593 49 36_Life and Death and the Israeli Dream12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:52:43 -0400 86643 137 55_Re: another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:19:10 -0700588_iso-8859-1 Sharon

In answer to a great question: No, that doesn't qualify.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:14 AM Subject: another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list



Hey, Steve- I heard a story on the radio this morning (yes, NPR) about a bombing of a Hindu shrine in India and an American may have been among the casualties. Does that make attacks on Hindus in India attacks on the United States? If it does, your list could get really long. -Sharon [...] 86781 152 43_Re: The stars come out -- one is missing-PS11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:26:34 -0700424_iso-8859-1 News just in: Mel Gibson just got slapped on the wrist with 3 years probation. Presumably, if and when he breaks the probation, he will get a stern warning not to break probation again.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liberman" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:13 PM Subject: Re: The stars come out -- one is missing-PS [...] 86934 23 9_Lieberman16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:27:37 -0400306_ISO-8859-1 Noam, I'm kinda reminded of the complaints in 2000 that Gore would have won if Nader hadn't been a spoiler. Nader had the right to run. And Lieberman, like it or not, is allowed by Connnecticut election law to run as an independent after having lost the primary. Coulda, shoulda, woulda... [...] 86958 23 12_Weiss's Farm16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:44:16 -0400569_ISO-8859-1 Amnon, Weiss' Farm has long since been subdivided into new residential burbs. Generations of Jewish students from all stripes of movements and organizations used that facility. I remember it--and the various meetings there--with fondness and nostalgia. ELIHU

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 86982 73 55_Re: another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 13:04:25 -0700438_iso-8859-1 Why not? Because there were no Jews or Israelis killed alongside the Americans?

-Sharon

Steve Klein wrote: Sharon

In answer to a great question: No, that doesn't qualify.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:14 AM Subject: another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list [...] 87056 201 16_Re: Weiss's Farm0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:09:58 -0400413_us-ascii

I second that emotion and will add a "where were you when" story that I will never forget.

I was elected mazkir of Habonim in the fall of 1973, replacing Avi Ben David, aka Avi Weiss. Avi invited me to spend Yom Kippur with his family at the farm. All day long their phone kept ringing, which was very strange since everyone knew that they were othodox and wouldn't answer the phone. [...] 87258 26 13_Re: Lieberman11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 16:40:35 -0400420_us-ascii Elihu,

I don't think it is comparable to Nader at all. He ran as an independent from the start.

I don't care about Connecticut law. Seems to me contrary to the spirit of participating in a primary if you only accept the result if you win. Lieberman was happy to have the support of the party infrastructure when it was behind him - seems fundamentally unprincipled to undercut the party now. [...] 87285 786 22_Re: Hezbollah and POWs22_Ilan and Lorrie Israel24_ilanori@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 00:15:28 +0200405_us-ascii Ken,





In answer to your question.

Samir Kuntar is imprisoned for the brutal murder of members of the Haran family in Nahariya in 1979. The father and four year old daughter were brutally murdered and a two year old daughter ,hiding with her mother, was accidentally smothered to death to prevent her crying. Two Israeli policemen were also killed in the attack. [...] 88072 267 55_Re: another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 17:38:38 -0700532_iso-8859-1

Sharon

I'm not sure what context your last statement would fit in order for it to make sense to me. Would having Jewish blood spilled make something more American? Never mind.

I think what I was going for here is the idea of intent, or objective. By definition, if the perpetrator would have gone after this group of Hindus because it had connections with America, or if were carried out against the one American simply because he was American, then yeah, it would be "anti-American". How not? [...] 88340 132 55_Re: another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:07:53 -0400455_iso-8859-1 Steve,

Are you seriously suggesting that all of the incidents on the list you sent originally were intentional attacks against Americans? That the objective of all those attacks was to strike at the victims who happened to be Americans?

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: another one for the list, or maybe a whole new list Sharon [...] 88473 255 67_HEZBOLLAH 3, ISRAEL 0 / Why go to war if you don't intend to fight?8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:31:09 +0200524_us-ascii HEZBOLLAH 3, ISRAEL 0

By RALPH PETERS

August 17, 2006 -- ISRAEL'S rep for toughness in tatters. Hezbollah triumphant. Iran cockier than ever. Syria untouched. Lebanon's government crippled. An orgy of anti-Semitism in the global media. Anti-Americanism exploding among Iraqi Shi'as inspired by Hezbollah.

Thanks, Prime Minister Olmert. Great job, guy.

The debacle in Lebanon wasn't even a war. It was only round one of a war. And Israel's back in its corner, dazed and punch-drunk. [...] 88729 60 15_Hancoff & Osama16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:07:55 -0400648_ISO-8859-1 Steve, Once again your pungent observations are even sharper than the exquisiteness of your guitar strums. No one should regret Saddam's removal from office. No one should view W's shifting rationales for the Iraq adventure--or the administration's defense of its implementation--as honest & straigtforward. The argument that the war was planned in the hallways behind a couple of corporate boardrooms comes straight from the same xenophobic minds as penned the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion. Actually, I do a disservice to the authors of the Protocols. They were merely officials of the Czarist police ordered to write a [...] 88790 61 12_pysycopathy?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:37:24 -0400424_iso-8859-1 Elihu,

I can't find this word in my dictionary - can you supply a definition?

Thanks,

Noam

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88852 96 82_Who sacrificed for Israel this time around (Brad Burston and a question of my own)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:43:55 -0400564_us-ascii In a conversation with someone in Israel earlier this week, I heard the following: When the names and hometowns of fallen soldiers were read over the radio, the majority seemed to fall into three groups:

--kibbtuznikim and moshavnikim --settlers --immigrants from the FSU

In Ha'aretz today, Brad Burston discusses this issue with an attack on "Yuppies in Tel Aviv" who have found ways to get non combat assignments or get out of the army altogether. Does these data points match the reality of what others are seeing/hearing in Israel? [...] 88949 85 16_Re: pysycopathy?0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 07:52:10 EDT699_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/18/2006 7:38:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:

Elihu,

I can't find this word in my dictionary - can you supply a definition?

Thanks,

Noam

A psychopath is someone who feels no remorse when hurting or cheating other people. Psychopathy is a word that someone just invented.



Sam





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 89035 145 16_Re: pysycopathy?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:09:58 -0400398_iso-8859-1 and "pysycopathy"? perhaps just a typo, but I'm always in awe of Elihu's vocabulary so I give him the benefit of the doubt ----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: Re: pysycopathy?



In a message dated 08/18/2006 7:38:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes: Elihu, [...] 89181 145 60_Fwd: Life and Death and the Israeli Dream was Who sacrificed12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:44:43 -0400 89327 22 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:00:18 -0400 89350 352 59_Re: Life and Death and the Israeli Dream was Who sacrificed0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:25:56 -0400422_us-ascii Amnon - I most have missed this posting of yours by pushing the "delete button" one too many times as I don't generally delete yours without reading them. Thanks as it does indeed address my question!

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 8:44 AM Subject: Fwd: Life and Death and the Israeli Dream was Who sacrificed [...] 89703 157 21_From Out of the Fires11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 08:46:11 -0700548_iso-8859-1 Part of a letter I wrote recently :

Al

The one good thing that may have come out of this is something no one is touching; maybe with good reason. There have been few times since the Crusades when an Arab force of any kind has stood up against a foe and left the battlefield with any form of dignity. To my thinking, this has been a major sore spot and driving force in Arab forces declaring war on everyone available since then. A good supportive point to that argument is the '73 war with Egypt, in which things also [...] 89861 123 16_Re: pysycopathy?13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:53:05 EDT536_US-ASCII Dear Elihu, Sam, Noam, and anyone else interested...

PSYCHOPATHY -- Again, the genius Austrian-Jewish early psychoanalyst Wilhem Reich, in one of his masterpieces, "Character Analysis" identified, defined and described five such structures: schizoid, orality, masochism, psychopathy, rigidity. Each of these words has, since about the mid-60's taken on a meaning in the vernacular (which, I believe, is how Sam defined psychopath) that is very different than how Reich described them. In the previous post I wrote: [...] 89985 251 31_Fw: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:07:24 -0700328_iso-8859-1

I received this and am sending it onward. Nothing new here, but refreshes the memory. Elaboration and corroberation of some of the points can be found in "BIG LIES: Demolishing the Myths of the Propaganda War Against Israel" by David Meir Levi . Published by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture. [...] 90237 92 25_Re: From Out of the Fires12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:10:55 -0700565_iso-8859-1 Speaking for myself (and possibly some others on Habonet), I would MUCH prefer to read things like this from Steve than the endless forwards he subjects us to. And that is true whether I agree with what he writes or not.

Steve--please reduce the amount of other people's words you post to a minimum and instead write what you want to say. It will eliminate all those pointless discussions of "I never said that" vs "you posted the article so the assumption is that you agree with it." It may take a little time, but better a little time well [...] 90330 564 50_Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 09:27:35 -0700532_iso-8859-1

Forwarded and slightly edited

Steve



These are the questions that many of us have been asking for the past several years....this well spoken man says what is on his heart beautifully....read, absorb and pass on....it's time to get answers from those who claim their terrorist members do not represent them...why are their leaders not LOUDLY AND FIERCELY AND CONTINUOUSLY condemning their visible murderous brethren. By American Airlines Pilot - Captain John Maniscalco (Slightly edited) [...] 90895 444 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:57:32 -0600424_us-ascii Thanks Steve for really, really getting it and sharing it with us.

It has become glaringly obvious that our freedom-loving government should round up all Muslims and concentrate them in camps until they a) convert to either Christianity or Judaism b) pledge to love America or leave it or c) die. What other final solution can anyone come up with? What else can you do with folks who just won't get it? [...] 91340 95 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:05:37 -0600536_us-ascii More grist for your mill Steve. Time for a roundup?

Gallup: Many Americans Harbor Strong Bias Against U.S. Muslims By E&P Staff Published: August 10, 2006 http://www.editorandpublisher.com

NEW YORK - A new Gallup poll finds that many Americans -- what it calls "substantial minorities" -- harbor "negative feelings or prejudices against people of the Muslim faith" in this country. Nearly one in four Americans, 22%, say they would not like to have a Muslim as a neighbor. [...] 91436 94 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:14:56 -0400564_us-ascii I should mention that I live in New York City (if I haven't a million times already) and I also live in a Jewish area in Brooklyn (Midwood on Ocean Parkway and Avenue P). Go 4 miles north, and you walk right into Kensington, where I work. I work with religious Jews. There are also Muslims-- women wearing burkas-- that I pass on the streets everyday on the way to the subway. Mosques and Synagogues are within walking distance of each other... guess what? Muslims and Jews are living within a couple miles of each other, sometimes less! True, these [...] 91531 113 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'14_Danielle Holtz17_daholtz@GMAIL.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:18:15 -0400577_ISO-8859-1 Isn't it nice to once again have a group of people to target whom we true Americans can recognize in the street? Reminds me of the good old WWII days, when we had the opportunity to demand that every Asian-American demonstrate that they were true Americans. If I recall, we forgot to target the German-Americans, too, but darnit they just look so similar to us that it was hard to tell. And just to be clear: we're targeting people who outwardly look Arab-Muslim, correct? Does that encompass Muslims who dress in normative American dress or am I only look for [...] 91645 133 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:32:50 -0400578_us-ascii And anybody who even knows a word in Arabic should be labled as a traitor!!! :P

JE ----- Original Message ----- From: Danielle Holtz Date: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:18 pm Subject: Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.' > Isn't it nice to once again have a group of people to target whom > we true > Americans can recognize in the street? Reminds me of the good old > WWIIdays, when we had the opportunity to demand that every Asian- > Americandemonstrate that they were true Americans. If I recall, > we forgot to target [...] 91779 137 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:41:56 -0700584_iso-8859-1 No, Julie- the point is, and I have to agree with Steve here, and, by the way, I know he is working with multi-ethnic groups to help harbor some kind of dialogues- WHERE ARE THE VOICES OF THE MODERATE MUSLIMS?...I know things are stirring- you have Walid Shoebat ("Why I Left Jihad")..who is all over the airwaves now ( he converted to Chirstianity)....and Irshad Manji- who goes to college campuses and speaks out about the fundamentalists and is demanding that the moderates take back their religion...but this is only here and there. You are lucky to see a kind of [...] 91917 173 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 10:48:38 -0700599_iso-8859-1 You know what- let's get real...all of this terror and violence has been perpetrated by Muslim men ( and women)...and they are middle eastern and there is nothing wrong in "stereotyping" or "profiling" ( which, by the way, is done whether you like it or not)..when tyring to keep citizens safe. Israel does it when people are stopped at restaurants or "canyon" doors or at checkpoints-and searched for bombs...are you saying this shouldn't be done?....We live in another world now; terrorism has stripped us of our ideals of human rights and it's just a fatc of life. Trying to push [...] 92091 156 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:50:56 -0400310_us-ascii Sometimes I do wonder why the moderate Muslims haven't spoken out and saying "These nuts that blew up the WTC etc. don't represent us." However I do think that at times, hell most of the time, Steve's forwards just have a very cut and dried edge to them...again seeing things in black and white. [...] 92248 196 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 14:01:10 -0400610_us-ascii Look, there is no disputing that most of these people responsible for these heninous attacks are radical Muslims. And yes, I sadly agree that at checkpoints in airports, sometimes racial profiling is necessary. HOWEVER, my sarcastic response was in response to another one of Steve's forwards. If we want to talk intelligently about racial profiling as an issue, or why we think it's sadly necessary, or why we shouldn't do it, or whatever side you're on...that's different altogether. But what Steve fowards has a very biased edge to it, and is propoganda, and all it does is anger people. This [...] 92445 236 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:08:26 -0700622_iso-8859-1 I don't think they are all one -sided, and the other thing is, if you don't like his forwards, then just "delete"- I happen to find them often very interesting...and sometimes they bring up ideas I never would have been exposed to...sue

--- Julie Esris wrote:

> Look, there is no disputing that most of these > people responsible for these heninous attacks are > radical Muslims. And yes, I sadly agree that at > checkpoints in airports, sometimes racial profiling > is necessary. HOWEVER, my sarcastic response was in > response to another one of Steve's forwards. If [...] 92682 134 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:14:37 -0700634_iso-8859-1 Im'sh'allah!

Julie Esris wrote: And anybody who even knows a word in Arabic should be labled as a traitor!!! :P

JE ----- Original Message -----

From: Danielle Holtz Date: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:18 pm Subject: Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'

> Isn't it nice to once again have a group of people to target whom > we true > Americans can recognize in the street? Reminds me of the good old > WWIIdays, when we had the opportunity to demand that every Asian- > Americandemonstrate that they were true Americans. If I recall, [...] 92817 4970 60_[QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:51:55 -0700527_iso-8859-1 This was forwarded to me today...s



reflect back, and take the > following multiple > choice test. The events are actual events from > history. They actually > happened! Do you remember?> > > > 1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by > a. Superman > b. Jay Leno > c. Harry Potter > d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 > and 40 > > > > 2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were > kidnapped and massacred > by > a. Olga Corbett > b. Sitting Bull > c. Arnold Schwarzenegger [...] 97788 199 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:13:56 -0700638_iso-8859-1 Moderate Muslims have been speaking out, but hardly anybody is listening -- certainly not the mainstream US press. Muslims talking about how middle-class, hardworking, and Americanized other Muslims are is hardly the stuff of the evening news (or even All Things Considered). -Sharon

Julie Esris wrote: Sometimes I do wonder why the moderate Muslims haven't spoken out and saying "These nuts that blew up the WTC etc. don't represent us." However I do think that at times, hell most of the time, Steve's forwards just have a very cut and dried edge to them...again seeing things in black and [...] 97988 24 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:43:34 -0400504_ISO-8859-1 Sue - did we really need all 4000+ lines of gobbledygook? If you want to send a message, that's great, but trim it do so it only contains the relevent portion please!

Thanks,

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 98013 52 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:13:05 -0700628_iso-8859-1 thought I deleted the "gook"- I sent it as a forward and deleted the stuff before I sent it..soryy if it didn't work-s

--- Noam Stopak wrote:

> Sue - did we really need all 4000+ lines of > gobbledygook? If you want to > send a message, that's great, but trim it do so it > only contains the > relevent portion please! > > Thanks, > > Noam > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and [...] 98066 72 16_Re: pysycopathy?0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:27:20 EDT608_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/18/2006 11:54:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, SHX2@AOL.COM writes:

Steven Hancoff

The piece on Wilhelm Reich was informative. I knew a little about his work from Becker's review in Denial of Death. But you really brought this guy to life

Sam





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 98139 45 84_prejudice and profiling (was: Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling"))12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:37:53 -0700567_iso-8859-1 Let's do a gedanken experiment (ooh, I love these): instead of listing a bunch of crimes where the answer to "who done it" is "a Muslim male between the ages of...", how about a list where the answer is an African-American male between the ages of whatever and whatever. Or a Hispanic male. I am not saying that Muslims, blacks, hispanics, etc. haven't committed crimes. But what purpose is served by the exercise? Is it to confirm to the e-mail recipient that Muslims (or blacks or hispanics or whatever) are bad and to be feared? Is it to point out [...] 98185 30 88_Re: prejudice and profiling (was: Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling"))28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:48:33 -0400441_ISO-8859-1 On Fri, 18 Aug 2006 13:37:53 -0700, Sharon Gates wrote:

>L... Maybe the profiling that has been lauded on this list is focusing on the wrong variable--forget about checking all the Muslims, start checking all the men! > -Sharon

And don't forget the mother's who raised them! :-)

Noam (who is a custodial father and constantly has to remind people that fathers raise kids too) [...] 98216 66 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:08:00 EDT413_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/18/06 12:40:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:

> Moderate Muslims have been speaking out, but hardly anybody is listening -- > certainly not the mainstream US press. Muslims talking about how > middle-class, hardworking, and Americanized other Muslims are is hardly the stuff of > the evening news (or even All Things Considered). > -Sharon > [...] 98283 129 27_Re: prejudice and profiling11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:14:33 -0600594_us-ascii Right on!

In terms of body counts, the USA stands head and shoulders above whoever's in second place as the most dangerous force on the planet. Who killed 100,000+ folks in Iraq? A white Christian from Texas.

The War on Terra, like the War on Drugs and the rest of the crap dished out by the war profiteers has precious little substance. It relies on fearmongering propaganda to rob us of our liberty and what little we have after taxes. Identify the entities that profit from misery, eliminate the profit, and the problems will cease. Profile the Carlyle Group and [...] 98413 27 27_Re: prejudice and profiling11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:31:10 -0600407_us-ascii "These two Middle Easterners come to America. They get separated from each other, and about a year later they get together to see who had become more Americanized. So the first guy says, ' I'm picking up my son from baseball practice, and then we're going out to MacDonald's. And then I'm going home to watch some NFL football. How about you?' And the second guy says, 'Fuck you towelhead!' " [...] 98441 125 31_Re: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:45:58 -0400502_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 12:07 PM Subject: Fw: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts





I received this and am sending it onward. Nothing new here, but refreshes the memory. Elaboration and corroberation of some of the points can be found in "BIG LIES: Demolishing the Myths of the Propaganda War Against Israel" by David Meir Levi . Published by the Center for the Study of Popular Culture. [...] 98567 53 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:46:26 -0400621_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liberman" To: Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 1:48 PM Subject: Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'



> You know what- let's get real...all of this terror and > violence has been perpetrated by Muslim men ( and > women)...and they are middle eastern and there is > nothing wrong in "stereotyping" or "profiling" ( > which, by the way, is done whether you like it or > not)..when tyring to keep citizens safe. Israel does > it when people are stopped at restaurants or "canyon" > doors or at [...] 98621 172 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:46:58 -0400557_iso-8859-1 Amnon - as Elihu suggested "Would Geritol or Preparation H help? :-P " :-)

Steve - you said "I think most Americans believe that it was a noble deed to off Saddam Hussein, WMDs or not. After all, he was a mass murderer. The more and more pervasive disullusion with the war is over the amazing incompetence of everybody who touches it. The article suggests that it's not about incompetence, arrogance, spupidity, cupidity, etc., but that's it's genius scheme worked out by avaricious and conniving traitors. Do you think so? I don't." [...] 98794 30 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 19:47:07 -0400369_ISO-8859-1 White Christian men have been responsible for the *overwhelming* majority of terrorist acts in the United States. By such significant numbers, that Arabs could turn every airplane in America into a bomb tomorrow and still not catch up with white Christian men.

White Christian men are also responsible for most of the crimes committed in the US. [...] 98825 44 35_Re: Fw: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 20:02:46 -0400543_ISO-8859-1 > Re: Fw: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts

"House of humor" is right.

> 5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL.

I thought the Jews had no state for 1900 years.

> 6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS > IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;

Since Christians use both our bible and the New Testament, which mentions Jerusalem hundreds of times, their bible mentions Jerusalem more then ours. By this logic, Israel should turn Jerusalem over to the Vatican. [...] 98870 90 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:38:42 -0700572_iso-8859-1 Well, actually, Noam, I am in agreement with you about having and preserving a land of liberty eqaulity and fraternaty ( sic); but you DO have to acknowledge the fact that on 9/11, the terror permeated our shores which we thought were invincible ( not unlike the feelings of Israelis now when the army had so much trouble and Israel's invincibility is being questioned.) Things change; eyes are opened, and sadly, sometimes we have to give up some things in order to preserve others. I am not saying we should behave as terrorists - but I am saying, and I [...] 98961 64 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:42:52 -0700416_iso-8859-1 So how do you explain the disproportionate amount of blacks and hispanics in jails?--sue

David Fleiss wrote: White Christian men have been responsible for the *overwhelming* majority of terrorist acts in the United States. By such significant numbers, that Arabs could turn every airplane in America into a bomb tomorrow and still not catch up with white Christian men. [...] 99026 77 35_Re: Fw: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:44:18 -0700428_iso-8859-1 I was just forwarding something- I didn't write it --sue

David Fleiss wrote: > Re: Fw: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts

"House of humor" is right.

> 5. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL.

I thought the Jews had no state for 1900 years.

> 6. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS > IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN; [...] 99104 122 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:21:33 -0400397_iso-8859-1 maybe disproportionate law enforcement by a disproportionate number of white Christian cops? ----- Original Message ----- From: Sue Liberman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")



So how do you explain the disproportionate amount of blacks and hispanics in jails?--sue [...] 99227 75 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:01:25 -0700661_iso-8859-1 maybe.......(I am not disagreeing)

--- Noam Stopak wrote:

> maybe disproportionate law enforcement by a > disproportionate number of white Christian cops? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Sue Liberman > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 8:42 PM > Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( > pertinent to "profiling") > > > So how do you explain the disproportionate amount > of blacks and hispanics in jails?--sue > > David Fleiss wrote: > White Christian men have been responsible for > the *overwhelming* > majority of terrorist acts in the United [...] 99303 82 31_Re: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 00:44:27 EDT673_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/18/2006 7:46:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:

How are we to square this "fact" with the fact that the PLO was founded circa 1964? Can you refresh my memory Steve? Which BIG LIES and myths are you looking to demolish?



The PLO was founded in 1963













------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 99386 27 47_Their Katyusha's - Our Artillery Shells@013.net12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:53:02 -0400 99414 43 52_OOPS - resend Their Katyusha's - Our Artillery Shell12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 03:04:59 -0400 99458 269 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 03:07:59 -0400435_US-ASCII David, which terrorist acts are these?





_____

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sue Liberman Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 8:43 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")





So how do you explain the disproportionate amount of blacks and hispanics in jails?--sue [...] 99728 23 35_Re: Fw: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 03:58:20 -0400463_ISO-8859-1 > I was just forwarding something- I didn't write it --sue

I know, Sue, but I'm the kind of person who talks back to the TV set. :-)

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 99752 21 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:02:00 -0400457_ISO-8859-1 > David, which terrorist acts are these?

Kidnappings, lynchings, bombings...

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 99774 51 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 04:09:06 -0400445_ISO-8859-1 I was careful not to mention what proportion of white Christian men have committed terrorist acts. I spoke only of absolute numbers.

If we're concerned about proportionality, why would we profile 1 billion Muslims (okay, 1/2 a billion Muslim men) because of the terrorist acts of hundreds or even thousands.

But think about who writes and enforces the laws in this country. And who the haves and the have-nots are. [...] 99826 135 44_Pan-Islamism challenges idea of nation state8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:23:13 +0200384_US-ASCII Pan-Islamism challenges idea of nation state

August 13, 2006

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

Here's how an early report by Reuters covered the massive terrorism bust in the United Kingdom. They started out conventionally enough just chugging along with airport closures, arrest details and quotes from bystanders, but then got to the big picture: [...] 99962 133 24_We Didn't Start Counting12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:39:33 -0400 100096 149 31_Re: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 06:51:32 -0700521_iso-8859-1 Thank you.

I will pass this on.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts



In a message dated 08/18/2006 7:46:53 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes: How are we to square this "fact" with the fact that the PLO was founded circa 1964? Can you refresh my memory Steve? Which BIG LIES and myths are you looking to demolish? [...] 100246 192 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 06:55:33 -0700354_iso-8859-1 Noam

Do you honestly believe that? Boy, I guess we as Jews are lucky we didn't all end up in jail because of the DNWCC.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling") [...] 100439 167 31_Re: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:24:20 -0700577_iso-8859-1

Noam

This one is easy. I was there in Israel during that time. This wasn't a phenomenon that happened on any particular date, or even in any particular year. The "liberation of Palestine" was nothing new. The transition of Arabs in the area from whatever they were previously ( various identities) into "Palestinians" gradually swept through the population. A lot of Jewish people at the time chuckled and said, "Yeah, I'm Palestinian, too". By 1967 or so, it had pretty much established itself. The PLO started out as a fringe of that identity. [...] 100607 283 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:26:43 -0400449_iso-8859-1 Steve,

I honestly believe that the majority of cops are white and Christian. I also honestly believe that profiling occurs and that blacks and Latinos are more likely to be stopped. So yes, I believe it is a plausible explanation for the disproportionate number of blacks and Latinos in US prisons. I think there are lots of other factors (largely economic) that play in too. As with most questions, I don't see easy answers. [...] 100891 225 54_Re: [House-of-humor] Fwd: Facts - Steve cops out again11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:29:47 -0400457_iso-8859-1 Well that's a cop out Steve.

You sent this item along and said it was useful to refresh the memory and also that it was corroborated. Not only that but the subject line indicated the material was factual. A quick read by anyone with any knowledge of the facts would disclose the obviously false/distorted nature of much of the material, leading any honest list participant to decline to send or at least not to pass it along as fact. [...] 101117 350 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:09:11 -0700658_iso-8859-1 Yes.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")



Steve,

I honestly believe that the majority of cops are white and Christian. I also honestly believe that profiling occurs and that blacks and Latinos are more likely to be stopped. So yes, I believe it is a plausible explanation for the disproportionate number of blacks and Latinos in US prisons. I think there are lots of other factors (largely economic) that play in too. As with most questions, I [...] 101468 89 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:27:08 -0700397_iso-8859-1 Dear David

Every once in a while, the discussions on Habonet turn goofy. I think this is one of those cases, and I think the reasons lie in the difference of definition. You define, apparently, lynchings and kidnappings and murders etc. as acts of terrorism, in order to stretch and make a point. That is well and good, except it is wrong. Well, wrong at least in my world. [...] 101558 90 52_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test = strange fruit0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:52:38 EDT504_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/19/2006 11:29:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:

Dear David

Every once in a while, the discussions on Habonet turn goofy. I think this is one of those cases, and I think the reasons lie in the difference of definition. You define, apparently, lynchings and kidnappings and murders etc. as acts of terrorism, in order to stretch and make a point. That is well and good, except it is wrong. Well, wrong at least in my world. [...] 101649 281 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:54:31 -0700514_iso-8859-1 Julie

I agree so much with you on this, I had to reply. I think America engenders an atmosphere that helps people get along with each other for the most part. Even back in 1965, my very BEST friends were Muslims and Jews and Christians in our college "People-To-People" group. My roomate Jim was Lebanese, another roomate was Roger ("the Lodger") from Iraq. It is my fervent hope that things stay this way, though enclavement such as is happening in Dearborn may screw this all up somewhat. [...] 101931 185 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:00:22 -0700426_iso-8859-1 Phil

Glad you asked. Let me tell you who I think should be profiled and watched. Any white kid that suddenly decides he needs to convert to Islam and travel to a madrass in order to learn more about Islam from the Imams and mullahs. I am willing to allow that MOST of these kids are OK. However, my guess is you'll come up with enough converted Jihadists to make the effort worthwhile. Think I'm wrong? [...] 102117 299 25_Re: From Out of the Fires11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:03:09 -0700470_iso-8859-1 Sharon

Thank you for the compliment !

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 9:10 AM Subject: Re: From Out of the Fires



Speaking for myself (and possibly some others on Habonet), I would MUCH prefer to read things like this from Steve than the endless forwards he subjects us to. And that is true whether I agree with what he writes or not. [...] 102417 181 52_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test = strange fruit11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 09:05:55 -0700432_iso-8859-1 No, Sam, you are probably correct. Most Lynchings were probably specifically designed for terror. It is the exception to the argument. We agree on this one.

Steve

Gotta go. Talk to you tomorrow?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2006 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test = strange fruit [...] 102599 62 52_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test = strange fruit12_marc argolis13_mmxmm@AOL.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:06:00 -0400483_US-ASCII ----------------------- Sent with ChatterEmail+ True push email for the Treo Smartphone http://get.chatteremail.com

-----Original Message----- From: Steve Klein Date: Saturday, Aug 19, 2006 12:05 pm Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test = strange fruit



No, Sam, you are probably correct. Most Lynchings were probably specifically designed for terror. It is the exception to the argument. We agree on this one. [...] 102662 158 41_Failure of a shady deal/ Rafi Ginat/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:09:29 -07001002_iso-8859-1 Failure of a shady deal

Olmert is guilty because he put the army in inexperienced, non professional hands. Peretz is guilty because he said 'yes' due to personal, political and career related motives Rafi Ginat

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} P.pHeader {margin-bottom:4px;COLOR: #001360;font-size: 17px;font-weight: bold;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); [...] 102821 93 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 12:24:14 -0700557_iso-8859-1 This comment made me laugh out loud. Even Fox News must have included SOME coverage of the issue of racial profiling over the last 10 years or so.

As to the terrorist acts inflicted by white Christian men, I believe it was Noam who alluded to the Oklahoma City bombing (though his comment may have passed by some on this list). There are also all those women's health care clinic bombings and shootings, which were, by definition, intended to scare people into acting/not acting a particular way. That's terrorism in my book. -Sharon [...] 102915 115 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:51:07 -0400452_US-ASCII There are also radical right wing Christians who bomb abortion clinics. Obviously, this isn't on the same scale as a 9/11 kind of thing, but I think that is definitely terrorism. What's amazing is how Fred Phelps and his cult haven't done anything yet (they're the guys with the website godhatesfags.com, they picket gay funerals and soldier funerals) b/c their movement calls for the death penalty for homosexuality, among other things. [...] 103031 53 48_Denis Leary tells Mel Gibson to shove it (video)11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 14:05:18 -0600529_us-ascii http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/40420/

Upon hearing that Red Sox first baseman Kevin Youkilis is Jewish Leary goes on a hilarious anti-Mel tear. Watch till the end for the second eruption...

The Sox announcer says: "I hope Mel Gibson doesn't come into this park... we'll run him outta here on a rail."

After making a nice play at first, Leary shouts: "Where's mel gibson now?! Where's mel gibson now?! He's in rehab and Youkilis is at first base." [...] 103085 56 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 16:16:08 -0400391_ISO-8859-1 > Every once in a while, the discussions on Habonet turn goofy. I think > this is one of those cases, and I think the reasons lie in the > difference of definition. You define, apparently, lynchings and > kidnappings and murders etc. as acts of terrorism, in order to stretch > and make a point. That is well and good, except it is wrong. Well, > wrong at least in my world. [...] 103142 247 54_Re: Fw: This American pilot 'Really, Really 'gets it.'11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:57:28 -0600581_us-ascii Steve,

I think you have it wrong about the threat. The ruling class has found a new enemy for you to obsess about and willingly give up your money and your rights. Ronnie "I'm Burning In Hell" Reagan rode the Evil Empire(tm) and Welfare Cadillac shticks to fame and fortune. Once Osama and the Mujahaddin blackened the Soviet eye, we repurposed them into our new enemy. Doesn't this remind you of Orwell's 1984? You remember, a different enemy every week or so? Can America survive without enemies and wars to fight? Do we have a viable economy apart from the [...] 103390 74 30_how to change my email address14_esther robbins18_ejr@MINDSPRING.COM31_Sat, 19 Aug 2006 22:12:49 -0400528_iso-8859-1 Dear Habonet,

Can you help me by changing my listing from this address (soon to be defunct) to my new email address: esuta@comcast.net

?

I would be most grateful.

Thank you,

Esther Robbins

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 103465 18 56_What Right-Wingers See When They Read The New York Times12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 00:57:44 -0400420_ISO-8859-1 http://rightwingnytimes.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 103484 45 60_Re: What Right-Wingers See When They Read The New York Times16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 03:09:20 -0400466_iso-8859-1 Cute. Reminds me of someone at my work who, when I told him I read Ha'aretz, responded that it's a Palestinian newspaper written in Hebrew. Sometimes I think I could almost agree with him, but it's still the best rag around. Avi Rosenberg

Original Message: ----------------- From: David Fleiss dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 00:57:44 -0400 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: What Right-Wingers See When They Read The New York Times [...] 103530 89 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 07:21:46 -0700551_iso-8859-1 David

If we were living in the past, both pretty recent and pretty distant, you would be correct, at least part of the time, like a broken clock that is actually correct twice a day. How you continue to concentrate on the sufferings of lynched Negroes while the rest of us are having a discussion about affairs of today would be comical in some other context. Yes, lynchings were bad. I will give you that one. And deportations. And internments. And refusing entry to refugees. and on and on. NOW can you focus on the present?! [...] 103620 89 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:39:47 EDT601_US-ASCII Noam,

re: your two points...

1. A question -- if there were an opportunity to assasinate the Korean despot, tinhorn or not, should we? What about Hitler himself?

Re: the use of the word "entitled" -- I'm not at all sure what that means. To me the notion of entitlement, which the US Constitution is the first political document to enshrine, is only one side of the coin, the other side of which is "responsibility." Does the world have a responsibilty to intervene in, say, Darfur? What if destroying the Sudanese government were the only way to stop genocide there [...] 103710 78 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:54:41 EDT503_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/20/2006 10:22:51 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:

How you continue to concentrate on the sufferings of lynched Negroes while the rest of us are having a discussion about affairs of today would be comical in some other context.

It would be funny if those who did the lynching were not in power and you were not supporting them. Check out Trent Lott. And of course Steve your right wing is still blowing up abortion clinics. [...] 103789 27 12_Bialik quote13_Joel Winograd15_mail@JELACO.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 10:28:16 -0500419_US-ASCII Bialik is quoted as saying: 'Reading poetry in translation is like kissing through a veil.' Does anyone have the actual citation; i.e. when, where, work-if published and/or the original Hebrew {translation being a tricky business -:) }?

Agnon is quoted as saying: "Anyone who translates is a liar. And anyone who doesn't translate is a thief." Does anyone have the citation and/or Hebrew for this? [...] 103817 31 18_Another U.N. Facre12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 08:39:31 -0700457_iso-8859-1 It is induriating that the world body which is supposed to pay attention to world problems turns out to be a real facre. How can they pass a resolution, then back down, and expect things to go as they want anyway?.....The French have contnually shown what pissies they are..and what is the US doing to correct any of this? (Has anyone heard if the US is doing anything to correct the Frenc lies????)...This is really appalling to me.....sue [...] 103849 114 16_Re: Bialik quote17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:21:13 -0500558_us-ascii Joel, I find numerous references to the Bilalik quote, but most mention the bible, not poetry. A perusal of about a dozen sites did not reveal the original publication. Maybe someone who can browse in Hebrew would have better luck. Here is the full quote: ** *"Reading the Bible in translation is like kissing your bride through a veil." ... but through translation, we should always strive to render the veil so sheer that we may sense the softness and sweetness of our bride's lips." *http://www.salguod.net/weblog/archive/000373.shtml Shawn [...] 103964 27 6_Errors12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:39:40 -0700418_iso-8859-1 I must apologize for the typos!- I deal with this all week long with my work, so when the weekend comes, or I am typing "for fun"--I seem to type slower than I think--also some of it must be "senior" related= sorry- but you get the "gist"--sue

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [...] 103992 27 16_Re: Bialik quote12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 14:02:47 -0400 104020 67 16_Re: Bialik quote16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 12:36:02 -0700464_iso-8859-1 Here is the Hebrew site with many of his works including essays. I do not have time to go through it right now, but someone may.

http://benyehuda.org/bialik/

Joel Winograd wrote: Bialik is quoted as saying: 'Reading poetry in translation is like kissing through a veil.' Does anyone have the actual citation; i.e. when, where, work-if published and/or the original Hebrew {translation being a tricky business -:) }? [...] 104088 246 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 15:43:21 -0400398_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hancoff To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Hancoff & Osama



Noam,

re: your two points...

1. A question -- if there were an opportunity to assasinate the Korean despot, tinhorn or not, should we? What about Hitler himself? Hitler yes. Kim Jung Il, I'm not so sure. [...] 104335 26 16_Re: Bialik quote12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:08:36 -0400 104362 96 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 14:11:07 -0700547_iso-8859-1 Sorry, Noam, I think the UN is a joke, and should be dismatled and replaced by something that works....sue

Noam Stopak wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hancoff To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: Hancoff & Osama



Noam,

re: your two points...

1. A question -- if there were an opportunity to assasinate the Korean despot, tinhorn or not, should we? What about Hitler himself? Hitler yes. Kim Jung Il, I'm not so sure. [...] 104459 41 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:46:54 -0400535_us-ascii > If we were living in the past, both pretty recent and pretty distant, > you would be correct, at least part of the time, like a broken clock > that is actually correct twice a day. How you continue to > concentrate on the sufferings of lynched Negroes while the rest of > us are having a discussion about affairs of today would be comical > in some other context. Yes, lynchings were bad. I will give you that > one. And deportations. And internments. And refusing entry to > refugees. and on and on. NOW can you focus [...] 104501 275 36_A moving movie about this latest war16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 16:13:28 -0700506_iso-8859-1 Beautiful and very sad.

Note: forwarded message attached.

--------------------------------- Why keep checking for Mail? The all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta shows you when there are new messages.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 104777 627 51_Terrorism or thought crimes? The Anti-Empire Report11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:28:38 -0600379_iso-8859-1 It is likely that the individuals arrested in the UK August 10, like most targets of the neocons, are guilty of what George Orwell, in 1984, called "thoughtcrimes". That is to say, they haven't actually DONE anything. At most, they've THOUGHT about doing something the government would label "terrorism." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14619.htm [...] 105405 26 40_Re: A moving movie about this latest war12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 18:57:10 -0700663_iso-8859-1 Roz- I couldn't open this- tried everything- also tried to paste website into browser and that didn't work- I have a MAC, and often can't open wav emails (???) even though I have quicktime...sue

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 105432 787 12_Fw: A LETTER11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:13:20 -0700593_iso-8859-1

If only for the sake of learning (or remembering) more Yiddish.

Steve

Subject: Think About This



The Signal is the home town newspaper of the Santa Clarita Valley. Diana Sevanian is a long time columnist for The Signal. Since I no longer subscribe to The Signal I miss her columns. She does not usually write about things Jewish but has done so in the past. I wasn't aware she knew so much Yiddish. She uses the Yiddish in a serious way and is not trying to be funny. Diana lives in Stevenson Ranch which is a neighboring community which at [...] 106220 817 62_[BULK] Re: Terrorism or thought crimes? The Anti-Empire Report11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:30:52 -0700647_iso-8859-1 Phil

Thank you for sending.

Interesting.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Safier To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 4:28 PM Subject: Terrorism or thought crimes? The Anti-Empire Report



It is likely that the individuals arrested in the UK August 10, like most targets of the neocons, are guilty of what George Orwell, in 1984, called "thoughtcrimes". That is to say, they haven't actually DONE anything. At most, they've THOUGHT about doing something the government would label "terrorism." http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14619.htm [...] 107038 58 47_Fw: petition to the UN as per war compensations11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:42:27 -0700578_windows-1255 If only to maintain a semblance of sanity.

Steve





> > UN is sending compensation to Lebanon? The ones who started > this? But not to Israel? > Sign the petition ( not that it will help, but why not?) > > David > > > PETITION DEMANDING THAT WORLD COMPENSATE ISRAEL FOR > HEZBOLLAH DAMAGES > > > Please sign and forward to your list of correspondents. > Thanks > > http://www.petitiononline.com/IAUN1/petition.html > > - > > > > đňđň îééě - ăĺŕ"ě 3G áîîů÷ Outlook çéđí. äöčřôĺ ňëůéĺ > çăů - ááéěĺď 6, úřâĺí č÷ńčéí á÷ěé÷. äĺřă ňëůéĺ! [...] 107097 185 64_Re: [QUAR] Fwd: FW: FW: history test ( pertinent to "profiling")11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:01:31 -0700600_iso-8859-1 Sammy

Now it's MY right wing? First of all, when did I get a right wing? So, let me get this straight: Simply because I exercized my right to vote for Bush as the person I thought would lead us best through the challenges we faced, I am having poop thrown at me indiscriminately? Is that to warn and intimidate people into your group-think Sam et al? Now I am an anti-abortion, Negro-lynching, gun-toting, creation-advocating, right-wing lover of Trent Lott. How much shame can you guys possibly bring upon yourselves before you can't stand yourselves? Perhaps there is no low [...] 107283 221 12_S Yizhar Z"l12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:12:17 -0400 107505 63 40_Re: A moving movie about this latest war16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 04:50:36 -0700346_iso-8859-1 I am sorry. Have you tried Media Player? Maybe you could use a PC to view it. Rozzie

Sue Liberman wrote: Roz- I couldn't open this- tried everything- also tried to paste website into browser and that didn't work- I have a MAC, and often can't open wav emails (???) even though I have quicktime...sue [...] 107569 98 30_[QUAR] Fw: Letter to President11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:23:00 -0700719_iso-8859-1

Our Rabbi wrote this piece a few weeks ago. It was good then. It is still good.

Steve







http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=16300 2006-08-11

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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 107668 47 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:41:31 -0700353_iso-8859-1 Sue- And your suggestions as to this replacement for the UN would be...? Don't forget to include the "other" stuff the UN does, like the United Nations Development Fund for Women and the United Nations Environment Program, not to mention the hundreds of other programs that I would guess you would probably want to see continue. -Sharon [...] 107716 164 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:56:28 -0700390_iso-8859-1 Sharon

The Democratic party once stood as the bastion of change. The League of Nations didn't work out, and it was sh-tcanned. The UN has not worked out and either has to be reformed (which it obviously will not do on its own) ---or dumped. Whatever organization that takes its place can implement all the beneficial programs. What is wrong with that kind if change? [...] 107881 461 68_Fw: Islam-Americans wake up-no verse in Koran talks pease-Cal Thomas11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:04:01 -0700436_Windows-1252

If you are confused about the difference between Radical Islamic Fundamentalism and just everyday peace-loving human beings (including peace-loving Muslims) trying to share a planet with love, then please skip this page. It is not for you. I will try to find something special later to occupy your time.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Islam-Americans wake up-no verse in Koran talks peace-Cal Thomas [...] 108343 82 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 09:12:11 -0700425_iso-8859-1 Steve- I did not say there was anything wrong with any kind of change. Re-read what I wrote without any assumptions of what you think I'm saying and you will see that pretty easily. I am merely asking, as I have been so often been asked on this list, for a poster to elaborate on her message. As many have noted before me, it's easy to say what you're against, but much harder to say what you're for. -Sharon [...] 108426 576 72_Re: Fw: Islam-Americans wake up-no verse in Koran talks pease-Cal Thomas11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:12:26 -0400659_windows-1252 The Christian Bible says to stone adulterors. It also says that homosexuality is an abomination, punishible by death. It also says that if you don't accept Christ that you're going to hell. It also says you can sell your daughters into slavery. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein Date: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:04 pm Subject: Fw: Islam-Americans wake up-no verse in Koran talks pease-Cal Thomas > > If you are confused about the difference between Radical Islamic > Fundamentalism and just everyday peace-loving human beings > (including peace-loving Muslims) trying to share a planet with > love, [...] 109003 80 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:40:00 EDT394_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/21/2006 11:42:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:

And your suggestions as to this replacement for the UN would be...?



Try the Red Cross. Try Save the Children.

The problem is, the UN provides a fig leaf for corrupt regimes, inept leaders and inaction in the face of genocide (see Rawanda etal). [...] 109084 28 47_Adrenalin or recreation was Re: Hancoff & Osama12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:32:40 -0400 109113 28 7_Apology12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:40:43 -0400 109142 322 32_the truth about war or peace now13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:26:21 -0400529_iso-8859-1 Have you seen anything lately that puts the situation in a clearer light? Anything that clarifies as much as the following, how much Israel is headed toward war in the next two years, based on how much it depends on the US's mideast policies? I haven't. Eldar says everything that needs to be said, very clearly and succintly. If the translation is not good or strong enough, I suggest you just look at the original Hebrew in the Haaretz Hebrew version today, were I read it first. Very clear indeed. ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 109465 31 72_Re: Fw: Islam-Americans wake up-no verse in Koran talks pease-Cal Thomas12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:56:22 -0400341_us-ascii Thoughts of loving-kindness from the Torah for the day:

"If anyone insults his father or his mother, he shall be put to death." (Leviticus 20:9)

"If a man commits adultery with a married woman, committing adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death." (Levitius 20:10) [...] 109497 128 16_Olmert's Demise?16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:43:46 -0700548_iso-8859-1 I wonder if this will interfere with the goverment's work?

Dead man walking

By Ari Shavit Haaretz 17 August 2006 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/751456.html

Here is the news: Aliza and Ehud Olmert will be summoned to an investigation in the State Comptroller's office within a few days.

The prime minister and his wife will be presented with these findings: The price they paid for their new house on 8 Cremieux Street in Jerusalem is lower than its market price by hundreds of thousands of dollars. [...] 109626 73 11_Re: Apology11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:35:36 -0600468_us-ascii Hey Steve and Sue,

Can I be in your league?

"If you build it, they will come." --- Theodor Herzl

Phil



At 01:40 PM 8/21/2006 -0400, amnon hadari wrote:

>My last message was misadressed and I apologize sincerely to all three >principals for having sent it to the list. That's what Yom Kippur is for. > > > >Amnon > >Hey Sharon, > >You realize that neither Steve nor Sue are in your league. So why do you >bother? [...] 109700 66 11_Re: Apology12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:44:48 -0700335_iso-8859-1 Need you ask?....I was beginning to think the guy had some heart then he goes and does that!--what a schmuck!- I sent him a nasty email, saying that I thought Sharon was shallow and I am glad I am not in her league- and that his apology wasn't accepted!

Phil Safier wrote: Hey Steve and Sue, [...] 109767 66 11_Re: Apology12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:45:24 -0700410_iso-8859-1



Phil Safier wrote: Hey Steve and Sue,

Can I be in your league?

"If you build it, they will come." --- Theodor Herzl

Phil



At 01:40 PM 8/21/2006 -0400, amnon hadari wrote:

My last message was misadressed and I apologize sincerely to all three principals for having sent it to the list. That's what Yom Kippur is for. [...] 109834 72 11_Re: Apology12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:47:07 -0700370_iso-8859-1 Ooh--so sorry- that was only meant for Phil.....s

Sue Liberman wrote: Need you ask?....I was beginning to think the guy had some heart then he goes and does that!--what a schmuck!- I sent him a nasty email, saying that I thought Sharon was shallow and I am glad I am not in her league- and that his apology wasn't accepted! [...] 109907 85 42_Peace needs an IPO/ Etgar Karet/ Israel21c16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 17:07:35 -0700575_iso-8859-1 www.israel21c.org. Peace Needs an IPO By Etgar Keret August 20, 2006 Etgar Keret is one of Israel's most popular young authors.



MORE FROM ETGAR KERET The way we war When I was a kid, I wanted peace. Not world peace, the kind beauty queens always ask for, but something local, small, modest, so my father wouldn't have to go to the reserves anymore and my brother and sister and I wouldn't spend hours stuck in the bomb shelter. Later on, I wanted a girlfriend and good grades, and after that I wanted a profession - not even a profession, just [...] 109993 263 122_Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 20:59:08 -0400423_iso-8859-1 The Truth Puts You in Jail By BOB HERBERT The problem with the way the United States government dealt with Abdallah Higazy had nothing to do with the fact that he was investigated as a possible participant in the Sept. 11 attack on the World Trade Center.

He was caught in a set of circumstances that was highly suspicious, to say the least. It would have been criminal not to have investigated him. [...] 110257 105 32_please spare us your indignation11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:10:59 -0400448_iso-8859-1

Steve,

In the letter written by your rabbi you forwarded with approval, he states in part "In the long term, this peace will come only by defeating the ... ideology of hatred and fear. The world's best hope for lasting security ... is the establishment of free and just societies."

I don't think he's talking about supporting profiling or the assertion that certain people are inherently predisposed to crime. [...] 110363 1839 68_Fw: The NEWS from ISRAEL - SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT - IDF Hostages Alive!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 04:05:09 -0700692_iso-8859-1

Unverified. Passing along as received.

Steve









- IDF Hostages Alive!!







The NEWS from ISRAEL

SPECIAL SUPPLEMENT

Italy: IDF Hostages Alive, Not in ´Great´ Condition by Hana Levi Julian Aug 21, '06 & 27 Av 5766 at 22:13





An Italian official said Monday that two IDF soldiers kidnapped by Hizbullah terrorists on the northern border are still alive but not in "great" condition. The head of the Italian Senate Defense Committee, Sergio de Gregorio, told the Reuters news service that Iran wants Italy to negotiate with Hizbullah for the release of the hostages. [...] 112203 303 36_Re: please spare us your indignation11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:02:17 -0700590_iso-8859-1 Noam

I have already resigned myself to the fact that if you haven't gotten it by now, you will never get it.

The only reason I continue writing and sending things is in an attempt to balance somewhat the rantings and bleatings of a liberal education gone amok. There is a small group on Habonet that often present a left-leaning opinion as the only opinion possible by rational people, and then proceed to beat the opposing opinion down with heavy-handedness and thuggery. You don't have to bother denying it, as I am sure you don't realize you are even doing [...] 112507 146 11_Re: Apology11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:19:39 -0700584_iso-8859-1 Phil

Sure- but would you really want to?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Safier To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:35 PM Subject: Re: Apology



Hey Steve and Sue,

Can I be in your league?

"If you build it, they will come." --- Theodor Herzl

Phil



At 01:40 PM 8/21/2006 -0400, amnon hadari wrote:



My last message was misadressed and I apologize sincerely to all three principals for having sent it to the list. That's what Yom Kippur is for. [...] 112654 289 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:28:03 -0700600_iso-8859-1 Sharon

Well said and well taken.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: Hancoff & Osama



Steve- I did not say there was anything wrong with any kind of change. Re-read what I wrote without any assumptions of what you think I'm saying and you will see that pretty easily. I am merely asking, as I have been so often been asked on this list, for a poster to elaborate on her message. As many have noted before me, it's easy to say what you're against, but much [...] 112944 86 9_A thought11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 05:41:18 -0700543_iso-8859-1 I just had a thought. Not a brilliance; just a thought:

I think it would be easier for us on Habonet to return to civility if we no longer use the "reply" icon to discuss opposing ideas.

How about hitting "Create Mail" each time, and oppose an idea rather than a person. I think that simple action can help buffer the sting of personal attack rather than "ad hominum (sp?). We could begin our discussions: " About the idea of. . . . " and go on from there, without the obligitory personal tear-downs and insults. [...] 113031 55 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 08:14:12 -0700406_iso-8859-1 This article IMHO goes to the heart of the danger of the so-called War on Terror. In an apparent effort to feel safe, US society is turning itself into the sort of closed, repressive society we say we oppose. If "they" hate us because we are free, will making ourselves less free make them hate us less? No, it will only make us less free and make our society less worth defending. -Sharon [...] 113087 86 38_The Knives are out in Israeli Politics0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:27:37 -0400384_us-ascii Awhile back there was a brief Habonet exchange on possible future prime ministers for Israel and Moshe "Boogie" Ya'alon got a number of supportive comments. Since Ya'alon was an outspoken critique of the Gaza disengagement, I knew that he was not my "cup of tea." I also have heard from a number of Habonim alumni who spent time at Kibbutz Grofit what a nice guy he is. [...] 113174 56 26_Moshes Ya'alon has my vote13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:35:41 -0400510_ISO-8859-1 We're in a terrible mess. Yes, I don't believe we lost the war in Lebanon but what we did lose was the moral of the Israeli public and it seems, that of the army. In my opinion, both Olmert and Peretz have performed badly and should resign immediately. I am a supporter of Moshe Ya'alon and have read most of what he has written. Today it's not a question of who can possibly replace Olmert but rather the necessity to replace him and the best person who has the qualifications, Moshe Ya'alon. [...] 113231 56 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:29:41 +0200499_iso-8859-1 Sorry, I prefer to get on an airplane knowing that the security officers use anything that works. Obviously, profiling works for ElAl. I would rather that the nervous young man, clutching his hand luggage gets a tougher check than the 80 year old grandmother who just happened to be number 25 to pass through the security checkpoint. I would think that most, if not all passengers, prefer security over all else. What good is my personal liberty when a bomb goes off at 33,000 feet? [...] 113288 77 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:40:32 -0400358_us-ascii I don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed that nearly every time in the past 6 years that I've flown, I've been subject to searches. I don't know if it's a "random" search or if the way I carry myself (I'm not exactly the most feminine woman in demenor...maybe that weirds them out?) makes them check me. It is quite amusing, however. [...] 113366 207 30_Re: Moshes Ya'alon has my vote0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:41:00 -0400655_us-ascii Moshe:

What are Yaalon's qualifications to be prime minister? What can you share about his political positions?

Thanks,

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 12:35 PM Subject: Moshes Ya'alon has my vote



We're in a terrible mess. Yes, I don't believe we lost the war in Lebanon but what we did lose was the moral of the Israeli public and it seems, that of the army. In my opinion, both Olmert and Peretz have performed badly and should resign immediately. I am a supporter of Moshe Ya'alon and have read most of what he [...] 113574 157 30_Re: Moshes Ya'alon has my vote13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 13:52:23 -0400590_ISO-8859-1 Ken, Shalom

If you ask what qualification Ya'alon has to be Prime Minister, I can turn it around and ask what qualifications Olmert has to be Prime Minister. He only got the job because he was Sharon's bat boy. Then there is Peretz, who stole the election in the Labor party but that's another story. A union leader perhaps but can you see him as Prime Minister. What Ya'alon has is his leaqdership qualities and his military ability. This is obviously sorely lacking in Israel and that's one of the reasons I support him. Can you possibly suggest another candidate. [...] 113732 54 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:34:35 -0400584_ISO-8859-1 I've been subjected to extra searches every time I have flown from DC with my passport--which has many Israeli stamps. In addition to "random" there are other triggers and discretionary searches. The idea of the 80 yr old grandmother is that no one should feel exempt. There was an interesting article about an experiment at Dulles where the head of security had his people "look at people and not at objects" for a month, ELAL style, watching from the time they came in the door. They didn't find any bombs--they found a lot of drugs, illegal aliens, a few fugitives [...] 113787 176 15_Another thought0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:57:29 -0400581_us-ascii









I just had a thought. Not a brilliance; just a thought:

I think it would be easier for us on Habonet to return to civility if we no longer use the "reply" icon to discuss opposing ideas.

How about hitting "Create Mail" each time, and oppose an idea rather than a person. I think that simple action can help buffer the sting of personal attack rather than "ad hominum (sp?). We could begin our discussions: " About the idea of. . . . " and go on from there, without the obligitory personal tear-downs and insults. [...] 113964 28 42_Re: The Knives are out in Israeli Politics12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:10:59 -0400 113993 112 80_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties i...0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:23:45 EDT473_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/22/06 10:41:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jesris@OPTONLINE.NET writes:

> I don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed that nearly every time > in the past 6 years that I've flown, I've been subject to searches. I don't > know if it's a "random" search or if the way I carry myself (I'm not exactly > the most feminine woman in demenor...maybe that weirds them out?) makes them > check me. It is quite amusing, however. > > JE [...] 114106 45 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 00:23:34 +0200577_iso-8859-1 What's wrong with finding fugitives, drug runners and illegal aliens? I once had an extra search cause I had 2 dozen rechargeable batteries in my suitcase. I went thru the search with a smile on my face - I'm not opposed to being thorough. Extra training - ok with that, too. Better than multi-million dollar machines that don't work on many explosives, especially the liquid kinds that the British caught before the terrorists got to the airport. Hell - remember the Arab in Scotland who sent his pregnant wife on a plane to Israel with a bomb in her suitcase [...] 114152 281 80_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties i...11_Julie Esris20_jesris@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:32:51 -0400294_US-ASCII Oh trust me.if JonBenet Ramsey had been black, a white without blonde hair, a boy, or simply not a sex object in training, I am sure that the case wouldn't have received so much attention and that nut who says he killed JonBenet Ramsey wouldn't have as many guards escorting him. [...] 114434 63 80_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties i...12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 14:34:33 -0700599_iso-8859-1 Daniel Pipes has an interesting article about this whole subject- you can read it at www.danilepipes.org...sue

DebALev@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 8/22/06 10:41:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jesris@OPTONLINE.NET writes:

I don't know if it's coincidence, but I've noticed that nearly every time in the past 6 years that I've flown, I've been subject to searches. I don't know if it's a "random" search or if the way I carry myself (I'm not exactly the most feminine woman in demenor...maybe that weirds them out?) makes them check me. It is quite amusing, however. [...] 114498 33 80_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties i...11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:38:18 -0400570_ISO-8859-1 They'll start inspecting ports just after there is a major incident where that was the mode of entry. The reason that the ports aren't inspected now isn't because we can't do it (which basically translated as " it is too expensive")--the shipping companies could be taxed to pay for it. The reason is that we aren't doing it is that those using the ports are a very powerful lobby and they scream about how fragile and perishable their products are and the risk is theoretical. As we know from Israel, we could screen on subways and buses and trains, in [...] 114532 26 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 16:00:04 -0600612_us-ascii Dear Dave Holzer,

As a true patriot, I have forwarded this message to the Department of Homeland Security. I hope you don't mind.

At 12:23 AM 8/23/2006 +0200, Holtzer Family wrote: >I'm talking with my son in Boston, we discuss blowing up airplanes or >bridges or smuggling in dirty bombs.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 114559 53 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:15:53 -0700578_iso-8859-1



I have no problem with finding fugitives and illegals but everytime they find a drug runner my cost of living goes up.





test'; ">

--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 114613 29 80_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties i...12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:29:12 -0400539_us-ascii TSA is a joke. The people who are supposed to be looking at their x-ray machines usually are too busy gossiping to bother. The official policy regarding shoes is that the screener is supposed to make a determination for each individual, based on the type of shoe; it's much easier for the screeners to tell everybody to take off their shoes. (Although I've learned that if I ask a screener whether I have to take off my shoes, and mention that I'm allowed to wear them at other airports, most screeners let me keep them on.) [...] 114643 112 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:29:57 -0400380_iso-8859-1 I didn't notice anything about airline security in the article I sent. I think El Al does a swell job.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Holtzer Family To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world [...] 114756 21 80_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties i...12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 18:34:06 -0400463_us-ascii With respect to US air travel, I don't know if it's true, but I've read that passengers' luggage is x-rayed but cargo is not screened at all.

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 114778 60 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:04:16 -0600615_us-ascii Do you really believe that they monitor domestic calls to screen for terrorism??? Did you just fall off the turnip truck?

Let's give these homicidal maniacs more power. Yeah, that's the idea!



At 12:23 AM 8/23/2006 +0200, you wrote: >What's wrong with finding fugitives, drug runners and illegal aliens? I >once had an extra search cause I had 2 dozen rechargeable batteries in my >suitcase. I went thru the search with a smile on my face - I'm not >opposed to being thorough. Extra training - ok with that, too. Better >than multi-million dollar machines that don't work on many [...] 114839 255 19_Re: Another thought11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 17:14:40 -0700388_iso-8859-1 Sam

I will answer, as you ask a direct question.

What if you listen intently to other points of view, attempt to assimilate them, and they STILL don't make any sense to you? Are you required to then assimilate them? ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Another thought [...] 115095 63 15_Another thought0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:41:33 EDT443_US-ASCII Dear Sam, and the rest of the list, I have been thinking for days, maybe weeks, about removing myself for Habonet. The bickering, the insults take away from the wonderful information, discussion that sometimes goes on. I don't know Sam, if you were sincere in your suggestion, but I think it is a good one. Spoken like a real therapist - I can say that because I, too, am one. Yosher Koach to the group to try to implement Ellen [...] 115159 139 19_Re: Another thought11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 20:23:00 -0700648_iso-8859-1 Ellen

Hi- It's Steve.

What is the suggestion that you liked? That would be a start, I hope.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Emabear@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:41 PM Subject: Another thought



Dear Sam, and the rest of the list, I have been thinking for days, maybe weeks, about removing myself for Habonet. The bickering, the insults take away from the wonderful information, discussion that sometimes goes on. I don't know Sam, if you were sincere in your suggestion, but I think it is a good one. Spoken like a real therapist - I can [...] 115299 379 30_Re: Moshes Ya'alon has my vote0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:46:09 -0400550_us-ascii Moshe:

I hope you don't expect me to defend Olmert because you've got the wrong person :-).

You are correct, my tendency is toward policies generally associated with the Labor Party, both regarding foreign affairs and social/economic justice. Since Israel did away with its short experiment with the direct election of a prime minister, you don't have the "luxury" of ignoring the party and voting for the person. If you look at who is part of Likud today, it isn't an attractive bunch, even with the addition of Ya'alon. [...] 115679 60 5_Sorry11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Aug 2006 21:06:10 -0700458_iso-8859-1 Sorry, David; I meant to take your name off the bottom of your smite and smote article. I will be more diligent in the future.

Steve



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 115740 31 30_Re: Moshes Ya'alon has my vote12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 01:32:53 -0400 115772 475 30_Re: Moshes Ya'alon has my vote0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 07:45:51 -0400677_us-ascii Amnon -thanks for that observation; it is comforting in some "communal" way.

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: gershon-keileh@013.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 1:32 AM Subject: Re: Moshes Ya'alon has my vote



Ken, There weren't many people at author S. Yizhar's funeral yestreday afternoon. It was far from any of our larger cities, in the middle of bad heat wave but the Israel I found sustaining in all my years here was there. Shimon Peres and Yuli Tamir minister of Education and Culture spoke briefly and with great feeling about Yizhar's foundational contribution to Israeli culture. I hardly saw [...] 116248 190 19_Yet Another Thought0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 08:09:51 -0400499_us-ascii



Subject: Another thought



Dear Sam, and the rest of the list, I have been thinking for days, maybe weeks, about removing myself for Habonet. The bickering, the insults take away from the wonderful information, discussion that sometimes goes on. I don't know Sam, if you were sincere in your suggestion, but I think it is a good one. Spoken like a real therapist - I can say that because I, too, am one. Yosher Koach to the group to try to implement Ellen [...] 116439 55 5_lomax13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 11:29:50 EDT394_US-ASCII Last night at 11:00 POV on PBS here in Washington presented an extraordinary documentary "Lomax," about Alan Lomax' project to collect folk music and "record the world," as he put it, starting in the 1930's. Old, old clips of Leadbelly, Woody and many very obscure real folk singers in Scotland, Spain, Italy (Beth pointed out the Italian music sounded a lot like Phillip Glass). [...] 116495 45 31_Habonet, The Bottom Line (IMHO)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 10:27:54 -0700548_iso-8859-1 Dear Chevre, Like Ellen, I have been mulling over many issues regarding Habonet for the past six or seven months. Let me preface what I am going to say with the fact that this is an amazing "place." In the almost ten years I have been a participant, and "consumer," I have reconnected with wonderful friends, and found that, for the most part, this has been a stimulating and educational site. But more recently, I feel this has turned into a "good ole' boys club" and a site where it is more important to knock down poeple ( and I [...] 116541 80 9_Re: lomax0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 13:46:11 EDT494_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/23/2006 11:32:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, SHX2@AOL.COM writes:

Last night at 11:00 POV on PBS here in Washington presented an extraordinary documentary "Lomax," about Alan Lomax' project to collect folk music and "record the world," as he put it, starting in the 1930's. Old, old clips of Leadbelly, Woody and many very obscure real folk singers in Scotland, Spain, Italy (Beth pointed out the Italian music sounded a lot like Phillip Glass). [...] 116622 78 126_Re: Required reading for the advocates of profiling and giving up liberties in the quest for security in the "post 9/11" world0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:20:23 -0400681_us-ascii



That is pretty funny



I have no problem with finding fugitives and illegals but everytime they find a drug runner my cost of living goes up.





________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 116701 72 23_result for bialik quote13_Joel Winograd15_mail@JELACO.COM31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:37:12 -0500 116774 62 36_A battalion commander's anger/ JPOST16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 23 Aug 2006 17:18:52 -0700748_iso-8859-1 http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1154525926212&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

A battalion commander's anger

--------------------------------- YEHUDA AVNER, THE JERUSALEM POST Aug. 22, 2006

--------------------------------- I have known Danny (a pseudonym) for many years but never have I seen him as angry as now. He is a commander of a reserve battalion in the armored corps and a moshav farmer in civilian life. His epaulets rank him as major. Tall, muscular, bulky, in his late forties, he cuts a dashing figure speeding in his armored jeep through a curtain of diesel fumes and whirling dust alongside his clanking, snorting column of Merkava tanks returning to base from Lebanon. Danny is [...] 116837 199 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 00:14:04 EDT589_US-ASCII Re; Sharon's response to Noam about the UN...I believe she is even more correct than she wrote. Functionally, the UN is (at least) two very separate organizations. In most of the world the UN is beloved and honored for its relief work, supporting all kinds of humanitarian efforts, handing out medicines, UNICEF funds, etc., especially all over what used to be called the third-world. From many accounts, they do a very good job of it. Looking around in Africa, parts of Asia, etc., you can't not see UN reps handing out sacks of grain and more (probably including plenty of [...] 117037 162 27_Re: result for bialik quote12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 06:45:36 -0400 117200 24 16_Water Discipline12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:02:50 -0400 117225 71 20_Re: Water Discipline0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:59:06 EDT536_US-ASCII I am so sadden by your posting. Once again you have used words to paint a most heartfelt story. Not becoming disillusioned in these times is a difficult task. I only thank Hashem, that for me, I have my faith. Contrary to what Sam thinks of me, I am involved in the reality of today's world, with all it's pain and suffering. I choose to follow a philosophy that my mother has shown me by example and deed till this day, that there is somewhere, something to celebrate in life. I know that some of you are ready to pounce [...] 117297 152 19_Re: Hancoff & Osama11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 11:05:55 -0600411_us-ascii Steve,

At 12:14 AM 8/24/2006 -0400, you wrote: >And Phil -- even if the ruling class here is, in shorthand, a clever and >sinister kleptocracy, it does not logically follow that there is no >threatening Jihadi movement. You suggested reading Reich and others; I >have. The Iranians also create enemies, fascists and plunderers,. and at >the moment they seem to be better at it than we are. [...] 117450 27 20_Re: Water Discipline12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:08:49 -0400 117478 44 41_smart or stupid (was Re: Hancoff & Osama)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:02:55 -0700473_iso-8859-1 Phil wrote: I maintain that the neocons encourage this struggle because they profit from it. Their Iraq misadventure has created more Jihadis than Osama could ever have done alone. Simply an unintended consequence? Doubtful.

The question is could the Bushies and the neocons be so stupid as to bring about this situation accidentally, or could they be so smart as to do it on purpose? Personally, I find either scenario difficult to believe. -Sharon [...] 117523 99 45_Re: smart or stupid (was Re: Hancoff & Osama)11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:04:52 -0600403_us-ascii Underestimating their stupidity and criminality plays right into their hands. Some combination of both makes the most sense.

This crowd has lied, cheated, murdered, and profited mightily on the suffering of others for at least the last 50 years. One must not put anything past them. Next to them, the Jihadis look like a bunch of street thugs with a cosmic chip on their shoulders. [...] 117623 186 45_Re: smart or stupid (was Re: Hancoff & Osama)17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 16:39:29 -0500561_us-ascii * Re:"/The question is could the Bushies and the neocons be so stupid as to bring about this situation accidentally, or could they be so smart as to do it on purpose?/" * In the early 1990's, immediately after the first Gulf War, Paul Wolfowitz authored a paper for DoD Secretary Dick Cheney proposing the re-invasion of Iraq in order to establish a liberal democracy in the middle of the Arab world. By doing so he and Cheney believed that the Arab peoples of the surrounding nations would see this and rise up to throw off the shackles of their [...] 117810 93 45_Re: smart or stupid (was Re: Hancoff & Osama)0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:16:45 EDT431_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/24/2006 5:06:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psafier@ELIXA.COM writes:



Israel's connivance with the neocons makes them suspect morally and tactically. They have begun to pay the price for their venal stupidity. Both countries have such deep connections to organized crime that they will have a hard time ever regaining the trust and respect of the world. Very sad and frightening. [...] 117904 98 20_Phil and the Neocons11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:07:48 -0400419_iso-8859-1 Great name for a band perhaps? ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Safier To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:05 PM Subject: Re: Hancoff & Osama



... I maintain that the neocons encourage this struggle because they profit from it. Their Iraq misadventure has created more Jihadis than Osama could ever have done alone. Simply an unintended consequence? Doubtful. [...] 118003 99 24_Re: Phil and the Neocons11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:16:54 -0600677_us-ascii Sorry Noam, but I beat you to it. I already have a barmitzvah band with that name. We also do the occasional briss for tips.

Phil "I Elected W" Safier

At 07:07 PM 8/24/2006 -0400, you wrote: >Great name for a band perhaps? >----- Original Message ----- >From: Phil Safier >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 1:05 PM >Subject: Re: Hancoff & Osama > >... >I maintain that the neocons encourage this struggle because they profit >from it. Their Iraq misadventure has created more Jihadis than Osama could >ever have done alone. Simply an unintended consequence? Doubtful. > > [...] 118103 144 24_Re: Phil and the Neocons11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:10:23 -0600628_us-ascii Noam,

The saying "never ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence," may apply to the FEMA fiasco, but when repeated, outrageous incidents pile up and stink to high heaven, it no longer does. Remember W's dictum of "fool me once...?"

Would you call it incompetence when a group steals elections, controls the major media, wages undeclared wars that kill hundreds of thousands needlessly while enriching themselves, illegally spies on its citizens, breaks international conventions on warfare and torture, lies constantly, and gets away with all manner of crimes? I think not. [...] 118248 60 4_Test13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:21:16 +0200450_us-ascii Just checking. To all and sundry, my new email is:

jonbaum@ksasa.org.il

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 118309 869 46_[QUAR] a moment of religious reflection.......13_Dan Bernstein17_dsb1@NYCAP.RR.COM31_Thu, 24 Aug 2006 19:19:28 -0400443_us-ascii Some cross fertilization from the Shomer net...







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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 119179 71 23_Yossi Sarid in Ha'aretz0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:26:32 -0400464_us-ascii This is a fairly long piece on governmental leadership in Israel, comparisons between 1973 and now and reflections on his work as an advisor to Eshkol. Good piece of writing, in my opinion.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/754695.html

Ken



________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [...] 119251 70 7_Address13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:00:36 +0200461_us-ascii I meant to say that my new address is

jonbaum@ksasa.co.il

Sorry,

Jon

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 119322 508 48_[QUAR] Fw: Ari Fleisher's letter to Jimmy Carter11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 07:15:22 -0700607_Windows-1252

It's just too bad that Fleischer wrote "honorable" before Carter's name.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Ari Fleisher's letter to Jimmy Carter













August 21, 2006





The Honorable Jimmy Carter

The Carter Center

453 Freedom Parkway

Atlanta, Georgia 30307





Dear Mr. President:





I just read the transcript of your interview with the German magazine, Der Spiegel, in which you accuse Israel of launching an "unjustified attack on Lebanon." [...] 119831 26 27_Re: Yossi Sarid in Ha'aretz12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:49:34 -0400 119858 28 52_Re: [QUAR] Fw: Ari Fleisher's letter to Jimmy Carter11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:14:11 -0400567_windows-1252 How to you propose addressing a former US president? Jimmy Carter is an extremely HONORABLE man, even if you don't agree with him. He wasn't a great president or even a good president but he was the president. He has mostly been a very good former president--he hasn't spent his time sulking in isolation or playing golf. He has continued to try to make the world a better place. I don;t agree with him on Lebanon but he still deserves the address of respect. I can think of many presidents and former presidents who were worse at many things. Judy [...] 119887 25 16_Good and Welfare12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:00:33 -0400 119913 492 47_[QUAR] New York Times - Islamism Trumps Arabism16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:58:55 -0400703_us-ascii

The New York Times



------------------------------------------------------------------------ August 20, 2006 Shifting Sands



And Now, Islamism Trumps Arabism

By MICHAEL SLACKMAN

CAIRO

SHE grew up in Cairo with the privileges that go to the daughter of a military officer, attended a university and landed a job in marketing. He grew up in a poor village of dusty unpaved roads, where young men work long hours in a brick factory while dreaming of getting a government job that would pay $90 a month. [...] 120406 143 27_Re: Yossi Sarid in Ha'aretz13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:48:54 -0400597_iso-8859-1 Ken,

Maybe good piece of writing, but very bad piece of ideas and of political advice for the future of the country, in my view. It appears that all the primitive tools for measuring public opinion are pointing at this moment in one direction only: either Bibi (and Likud), or Avigdor Liberman (and Israel Beitenu) as prime minister, if the current government does fall and there are new elections. (Either option is going to have the full support of Yaalon and all those "orange" people that still dream of literally reversing the Gaza withdrawal from a year ago. I.e., of [...] 120550 193 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:02:04 -0500582_us-ascii Amnon, I have not been a regular contributor to Habonet, but I did recently post a piece on neocon plans leading up to the war in Iraq. That, I believe, entitles me to respond to your 1. WHAT. Most of us who live here in the U.S. are obviously very concerned with Bush Administration actions and policies. Recent polls show numbers approaching 70% dissatisfaction with the direction of this nation and the Iraq war. Election season is upon us and the ugliness that currently comprises political discourse in America is well under way. The GOP has nothing to sell that [...] 120744 97 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:11:57 EDT627_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/25/2006 8:02:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes:

Most of us who live here in the U.S. are obviously very concerned with Bush Administration actions and policies. Recent polls show numbers approaching 70% dissatisfaction with the direction of this nation and the Iraq war. Election season is upon us and the ugliness that currently comprises political discourse in America is well under way. The GOP has nothing to sell that will keep them in power except fear. Forgive us for it will be a very long autumn of endlessly repetitive attack ads and it is impossible [...] 120842 25 17_ISO parking space11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 21:37:17 -0400335_ISO-8859-1 The place we have been parking our college kid's car recently got rezoned "No Parking" so we need a safe place to keep it while he is at school. It does not need to be close to our home. Do you have a space in your garage or on your driveway or know someone who does? We're happy to talk about reasonable compensation. [...] 120868 41 21_Re: ISO parking space11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:17:26 -0400597_ISO-8859-1 Sorry! This was meant for my synagogue's listserve. Judy

Judy Gelman wrote:

> The place we have been parking our college kid's car recently got > rezoned "No Parking" so we need a safe place to keep it while he is at > school. It does not need to be close to our home. Do you have a > space in your garage or on your driveway or know someone who does? > We're happy to talk about reasonable compensation. > > Thanks for helping! > Judy Gelman and Steve Salop > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is [...] 120910 258 27_Re: Yossi Sarid in Ha'aretz0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:00:55 -0400532_us-ascii Yuval:

I know that we are looking at possible scenarios of what might happen in the contact sport we call Israeli politics. I know that "new elections" talk is in the air, but there needs to be a majority in the Knesset to support such a call. Is it possible that there are enough parties that think that is not in their self interest - Kadima, Labor and Gil alone hold 56 seats and I think we would all agree that none of those parties right now think they will do better in short term new elections. I am not [...] 121169 21 21_Re: ISO parking space12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 00:59:14 -0400 121191 27 20_Re: Good and Welfare12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:13:02 -0400 121219 86 21_Re: ISO parking space11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:06:02 -0400515_ISO-8859-1 It doesn't have to be close but that is a little too far! Judy

amnon hadari wrote:

> Hey Judy > > These glitches happen. More substantively in front of my house on a > quiet street in Ramat Gan there is some room. No charge. > > > > Amnon > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Judy Gelman > Date: Friday, August 25, 2006 11:17 pm > Subject: Re: ISO parking space > > > Sorry! This was meant for my synagogue's listserve. > > Judy > > > > Judy Gelman wrote: > > > [...] 121306 34 20_Re: Good and Welfare12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:43:22 -0400 121341 129 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:59:34 -0500616_us-ascii Thanks Sam. At one time I wanted to get involved in politics but there was a large skeleton in my closet. I was once a card carrying member of an extreme left wing Jewish labor organization called Habonim.

Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 08/25/2006 8:02:03 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes: > > Most of us who live here in the U.S. are obviously very concerned > with Bush Administration actions and policies. Recent polls show > numbers approaching 70% dissatisfaction with the direction of this > nation and the Iraq war. Election season is upon us [...] 121471 387 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:21:15 -0500534_us-ascii Amnon, Shabbat Shalom. Alan is my older brother and Rozzie is my very wonderful sister-in-law. I remember them talking about you upon their return from the 13th Workshop. If my memory serves me well you were their madrich. I was on the 20th Workshop at Urim. I did not apologize because I needed to, I apologized because I wanted to. Civility is becoming a forgotten art, is it not? I watch my back, but Habonet hardly seems dangerous. In the immortal words of our /shanda/ president, George W. Bush, bring it on. Shawn [...] 121859 113 56_Will Bush Make Iran The Only Superpower/ Bradley Burston16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 02:55:19 -0700658_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/754892.html

Will Bush make Iran the only superpower? By Bradley Burston

What if George W. Bush held your future in his hands?

He does.

Bush, who is fast nearing the mid-point of his second term, has yet to field a coherent policy regarding the grand dark-horse of 21st Century superpower politics, Iran.

Any move he makes will need to factor in a vast array of regional and global changes in the course of his presidency, among them, the vigor and influence of Al-Qaida, the sense of military and governmental momentum on the part of Hezbollah and Hamas, and the potency [...] 121973 66 30_Mourning the Culture of Crumbs16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 03:02:49 -0700685_iso-8859-1 Talking about culture and the Hebrew language.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/754686.html

Mourning the culture of crumbs By Benny Ziffer

In a scene that is perhaps typical of S. Yizhar's absurd, Ben, the devoted mail distributor at Haaretz, entered the editorial offices of the culture and literature supplement, informed us that S. Yizhar had died, and said, "Listen, they're saying that he was a great writer. He wrote 'The Days of Ziklag.'" A bit later, the skinny, hunchbacked Bukharan cleaning woman, wearing a blue work caftan over a flowered dress, came along. She overheard us talking about the deceased. "Who died?" "S. Yizhar." "May [...] 122040 82 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:43:39 EDT528_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/26/2006 2:59:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes:

Thanks Sam. At one time I wanted to get involved in politics but there was a large skeleton in my closet. I was once a card carrying member of an extreme left wing Jewish labor organization called Habonim. Well we had a Habonim member elected Prime Minister of Israel (Golda) but I don't think you could run for President. How are you connected to the rest of the Barlands like Al and Rozzie if you are connected. [...] 122123 100 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:50:16 EDT618_US-ASCII

In a message dated 08/26/2006 1:04:57 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gershon-keileh@013.NET writes:

Sam you told Shawn >Go Shawn. I ain't up to speed on neologisms. Is that like tistalki? Or get out of town. If it is, I disagree



That is like "Go Steelers" The Steelers are a football team that plays in a town called Pittsburgh where I live. They recently one a competition called the Superbowl. During the regular football season the residents of the city of Pittsburgh and many other areas want to encourage the team and put stickers on their cars that so "Go Steelers" They [...] 122224 27 20_Re: Good and Welfare12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 08:43:10 -0400 122252 124 20_Re: Good and Welfare12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:36:53 -0400 122377 69 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 07:43:48 -0700560_iso-8859-1 I think we need to move on with the times. There are new and innovative ways to teach language these days like the Tal Am program and the NETA programs here in the United Sates and Canada. These programs are quite successful. Teaching language needs to be taught like any subject, by qualified, educated and enthusiastic, passionate people. Thee needs to be a daily exposure to the language and the culture. This is beyond many people's reach and pocketbook these days. It is quite a complicated program and there is much literature out there. [...] 122447 139 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:12:19 -0500534_us-ascii Why Sam, I'm insulted. You mean you don't remember the 15 year old kid visiting the Bet Garin on Paulina St. in Chicago in 1967 or '68 where you lived with Braun, Kutnick, Barland, Gurwitz & Company? I remember walking over to Clark St. and buying a peace sign medallion in a head shop. Ahh, to be young again. I also remember sitting and watching you make up a song called "Fly Away Roz". I wonder if you remember that one? As I wrote Amnon, I derive from the same parental units as Alan. I think you once attended one [...] 122587 25 34_Re: Mourning the Culture of Crumbs12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:33:14 -0400 122613 129 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:52:59 EDT572_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/26/2006 11:12:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes:

Why Sam, I'm insulted. You mean you don't remember the 15 year old kid visiting the Bet Garin on Paulina St. in Chicago in 1967 or '68 where you lived with Braun, Kutnick, Barland, Gurwitz & Company? I remember walking over to Clark St. and buying a peace sign medallion in a head shop. Ahh, to be young again. I also remember sitting and watching you make up a song called "Fly Away Roz". I wonder if you remember that one? As I wrote Amnon, I derive from [...] 122743 223 13_Re: A thought11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:31:38 -0400362_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: A thought



I just had a thought. Not a brilliance; just a thought:

I think it would be easier for us on Habonet to return to civility if we no longer use the "reply" icon to discuss opposing ideas. [...] 122967 85 53_A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 09:38:29 -0700650_iso-8859-1 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/26/nyregion/26green.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin

A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride. By ANDY NEWMAN and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT Not that there’s any pressure on Shawn Green to succeed in New York, but when Mr. Green — power-hitting right fielder, two-time All-Star, Jew — took the field in a Mets uniform for the first time on Thursday, a fan named Corey Mintz held up a poster with Mr. Green’s photo on it. “The messiah has arrived,” the poster read. Jews are famed for their prowess in many fields, but have long been stereotyped, even by themselves, as being weak in athletics. There [...] 123053 162 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:44:44 -0500590_us-ascii I will have to ask my father, Alan & Rozzie about the seder. I have a distinct memory of my father and grandfather being thrilled with your booming voice and spirited participation. I think Danny was there also. Do you remember this Roz?

Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 08/26/2006 11:12:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes: > > Why Sam, I'm insulted. You mean you don't remember the 15 year > old kid visiting the Bet Garin on Paulina St. in Chicago in 1967 > or '68 where you lived with Braun, Kutnick, Barland, Gurwitz & > [...] 123216 538 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:33:21 -0400396_utf-8 As a Mets fan and a proud owner of the set of Jewish baseball cards put out by the American Jewish Historical Society, I will admit to enjoying the fact that Shawn Green is with our team.

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: rbarland@YAHOO.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 12:38 PM Subject: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes [...] 123755 424 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 13:40:38 -0400565_utf-8 Rozzie:

Our Solomon Schechter High School of Long Island has adopted the NETA program and my daughter (ironically named Netta) does not like it compared to the previous more home grown system. My son caught it in his senior year and also didn't see it as an upgrade. I have heard the same from a few of their friends but I admit that I haven't spoken to our Judaica studies coordinator about this. Since our home life is one that appreciates the Hebrew language and all of our kids are motivated and interested in learning it, I have been looking [...] 124180 82 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 14:38:20 EDT408_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/26/2006 12:44:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes:

I will have to ask my father, Alan & Rozzie about the seder. I have a distinct memory of my father and grandfather being thrilled with your booming voice and spirited participation. I think Danny was there also. Do you remember this Roz? This sounds like it could be me. I just don't remember [...] 124263 59 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 11:59:55 -0700328_iso-8859-1 As any political historian knows, the Mets were the first neocons (that is modern liberal speak for evil doers) because they stole the '69 world series from the better, if purely goyish, Baltimore Orioles.

As anybody from outside the Big Apple knows, the only thing worse than a Mets fan is a Yankee fan. [...] 124323 96 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes0_16_gttaylor@ATT.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:05:24 +0000593_- The Mets are 'evil doers' because they rose to win the NL and then World Series while the Chicago Cubs floundered and lost. Cindy Taylor -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: richard smith > As any political historian knows, the Mets were the first neocons (that is > modern liberal speak for evil doers) because they stole the '69 world series > from the better, if purely goyish, Baltimore Orioles. > > As anybody from outside the Big Apple knows, the only thing worse than a Mets > fan is a Yankee fan. > > kbob24@AOL.COM wrote: > As a [...] 124420 23 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 16:39:31 -0400272_- If the only thing worse than a met fan is a Yankee fan, I guess your team (whoever they are) will be playing baseball in October? NOT LIKELY! The Yankees for the most part are alwasy playing baseball in October! See you at the 2006 Subway Series in NY! GO YANKEES! [...] 124444 387 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:10:08 -0400546_us-ascii To Cindy and Richard:

As a baseball fan, I really do appreciate your pain at losing at the hands of the Mets in 1969. However, in terms of the "evil doer" status, I would say the following:

1) In 1969 I was still a Minnesota Twins fan so don't blame me. 2) PLEASE, PLEASE don't put the Mets in the same category as the Yankees. While we inhabit the same metro area, there is no connection between the teams and their fans. My wife Nancy proudly wears a Mothers Day T-shirt gift which reads" "I root for two teams, the [...] 124832 68 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 19:43:22 -0400495_iso-8859-1 Well we know Yankee fans have no class ...

Noam (sorry Marc) I could provide a class analysis fo NY baseball, but you probably aren't that interested.

Ken





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 124901 123 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 20:26:10 -0400337_iso-8859-1 At least not those who come down to games in Baltimore. And of course Jeffery Maher. ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 7:43 PM Subject: Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes



Well we know Yankee fans have no class ... [...] 125025 905 71_Fw: Post Reporter Says Israel Wants Hezbollah to Kill Israeli Civilians11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:45:23 -0700695_iso-8859-1 Friends This is the kind of thing that is so unbelievable, I checked on Snopes. Nothing there.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Post Reporter Says Israel Wants Hezbollah to Kill Israeli Civilians



Subject: Post Reporter Says Israel Wants Hezbollah to Kill Israeli Civilians



Friends:

After you've read the following Alert and have witnessed the depth of the Washington Post's tolerance of a reporter's suspect credibility and anti-Israel animus, please write to the Post to tell them Thomas Ricks does not measure up to a newspaper of the Post's caliber and reputation. While Mr. Ricks' statements were made during an on air interview, [...] 125931 277 24_Fw: Human Rights in Iran11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:57:48 -0700497_iso-8859-1 AOL Email For your information and your support

Steve







Shirin Ebadi was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2003 for her efforts for Democracy and Human Rights.

She particularly focused on the rights for women and children.

I researched Ms. Ebadi and found this to be true.

Regards, Howard







8/8/06 Message from Nobel Laureate Shirin Ebadi on banning of Center for Defense of Human Rights in Iran [...] 126209 488 42_Fw: What is 'Human Rights Watch' watching?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:15:13 -0700627_iso-8859-1

Amnesty Int'l has a partner in Human Rights Watch. Neither desrves support.

Steve













Subject: What is 'Human Rights Watch' watching?





First Word: What is 'Human Rights Watch' watching?

ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ, THE JERUSALEM POST Aug. 24, 2006

When it comes to Israel and its enemies, Human Rights Watch cooks the books about facts, cheats on interviews, and puts out predetermined conclusions that are driven more by their ideology than by evidence. These are serious accusations, and they are demonstrably true. [...] 126698 175 13_Fw: A thought11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:36:38 -0700533_iso-8859-1

Subject: Fw: A thought









OK Noam

Again-

It's worth a try, isn't it?

Steve









----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:41 AM Subject: A thought



I just had a thought. Not a brilliance; just a thought:

I think it would be easier for us on Habonet to return to civility if we no longer use the "reply" icon to discuss opposing ideas. [...] 126874 180 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:24:06 +0200383_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:26 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes



At least not those who come down to games in Baltimore. And of course Jeffery Maher. [...] 127055 117 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:28:59 -0700583_iso-8859-1 Ken, I know our school is seiously looking into the NETA program. We had some speakers come in and talk. Looking at the materials only, it looked really nice and hearing the philosophy it also sounded good. I know it is quite a rigid program and iit is tightly controlled by the NETA people. After a few years of trial and error, however, a teacher could possibly adapt the program and make it more student friendly. The NETA curriculum was written by specialists with years of experience in teaching Hebrew as a second language and was designed especially for youth [...] 127173 58 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:30:04 -0700557_iso-8859-1 SAm, I do not remember being there. I seem to remember flying to Montreal for Passover until we lived in New York. Rozzie

Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 08/26/2006 12:44:20 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes: I will have to ask my father, Alan & Rozzie about the seder. I have a distinct memory of my father and grandfather being thrilled with your booming voice and spirited participation. I think Danny was there also. Do you remember this Roz? This sounds like it could be me. I just don't remember [...] 127232 87 50_Meir Shalev/ Drawing conclusions from the war/YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 05:37:14 -07001025_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3295890,00.html

Drawing conclusions from the war

If in peacetime the government neglects its poor, elderly and sick, forcing them to seek the mercy of charitable organizations, then why should anything change during wartime? Meir Shalev Published: 08.26.06, 18:17



P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} P.pHeader {margin-bottom:4px;COLOR: #001360;font-size: 17px;font-weight: bold;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : [...] 127320 115 13_Re: A thought11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:25:13 -0400398_iso-8859-1 Yes Steve it's worth a try. But can you understand why the suggestion is suspect coming as it did less than an hour after one of your regular venom filled name calling rants?

Nice editing job on my message. Perhaps if you wish to try for a civil discussion you can take responsibility for what you say, and stop distorting the views of others. What might be worth a try too. [...] 127436 187 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 08:28:16 -0500523_us-ascii Sam, I did ask Alan and our dad & all three of us remember you, Pete & Danny attending. We also remember that you brought your guitar and entertained us after the seder. My dad said to tell you that he is insulted that you don't remember the largest and most lavish seder we ever had. Those are great memories. Thanks for sharing that evening with us, perhaps one of these days the memory will come back to you. It was, after all, a long time ago. By the way, "Fly Away Roz" was about her hair blowing in the [...] 127624 171 20_Re: Good and Welfare11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 09:34:07 -0400549_windows-1252 From what you say, I am wondering why our day school puts kids in 2 years of what they call "pre-NETA". Judy

Rosalind Barland wrote:

> Ken, > I know our school is seiously looking into the NETA program. We had > some speakers come in and talk. Looking at the materials only, it > looked really nice and hearing the philosophy it also sounded good. I > know it is quite a rigid program and iit is tightly controlled by the > NETA people. After a few years of trial and error, however, a teacher > could possibly adapt [...] 127796 68 42_Re: The Knives are out in Israeli Politics17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:46:33 +0200456_us-ascii Ken, I am not surprised that you see Boogie Yahalom as Likud-like and do not support him. But he is, lest we forget a kibbutznik - a real kibbutznik who, while ramatkal, came home to do toranut. This, of course, does not mean he is competent to be a prime minister as you and I both know lots of people who do toranut who would be disastrous in the job. But he does lean toward what in this forum is called "Habonim values" on social issues. [...] 127865 35 38_The Knives are out in Israeli Politics17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:00:01 +0200511_us-ascii Sorry - was interrupted, gan is on hofesh I wasn't actually planning on voting for Yuval.

Also - and this is to Yuval, many people in Israel now feel that the disengagement was, let's say, problematic. But I have not heard anyone suggest reforming the yishuvim that were dismantled. Can people be concerned that further unilateral withdrawl endangers security without being fascist? I understand that you do not believe this to be true but can you offer anything as surety other than hope? Heidi 127901 68 42_Re: The Knives are out in Israeli Politics11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 10:43:54 -0400644_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheldon and Heidi" To: Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 11:00 AM Subject: The Knives are out in Israeli Politics



> Sorry - was interrupted, gan is on hofesh > I wasn't actually planning on voting for Yuval. > > Also - and this is to Yuval, many people in Israel now feel that the > disengagement was, let's say, problematic. But I have not heard anyone > suggest reforming the yishuvim that were dismantled. Can people be > concerned that further unilateral withdrawl endangers security without > being fascist? I understand that you [...] 127970 214 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 07:44:57 -0700365_iso-8859-1 Neta is more for 7th -12th grades. We have the same problem here. Tal Am can now run through 4th grade and then there is a two year gap at our school as well until we can start the NETA program.

Judy Gelman wrote: From what you say, I am wondering why our day school puts kids in 2 years of what they call "pre-NETA". Judy [...] 128185 104 27_Re: Yossi Sarid in Ha'aretz11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:14:59 -0400610_iso-8859-1 Ken,

It seems to me that the politics of self interest are a large part of what Sarid is talking about and condemning. We have some of the same problems here in the US. Hopefully both electorates will find fresh leadership and clean house. Stranger things have happened.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 12:00 AM Subject: Re: Yossi Sarid in Ha'aretz ... In short, I think self interest may keep this government, or one like it, around for a good chunk of its term. There might be changes in the makeup [...] 128290 225 20_Re: Good and Welfare11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:17:29 -0400351_windows-1252 Actually, the "pre-NETA" seems to be used in 7-12 for kids who come in without the previous Hebrew in k-6. Sorry not to be clearer. When I have heard NETA grads in situations where they absolutely had to use hebrew (otherwise, what kid will do it?), their command of the language was really really impressive--written and oral. Judy [...] 128516 120 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:54:28 EDT399_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/27/2006 9:27:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes:

Sam, I did ask Alan and our dad & all three of us remember you, Pete & Danny attending. We also remember that you brought your guitar and entertained us after the seder. My dad said to tell you that he is insulted that you don't remember the largest and most lavish seder we ever had. [...] 128637 278 42_Re: The Knives are out in Israeli Politics0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:21:03 -0400564_us-ascii Heidi:

As I have written previously, I am struck by the affection that people who know Ya'alon from Grofit have for him. Nor do I discount his kibbutz membership as a source of that "little voice" that whispers in the ear of leaders. More on that in a moment.

I happen to agree with you on the "armchair general" issue. During the war when the Ameinu Policy and Advocacy Committee was considering what to say and what do, I was not in favor of sharing an opinion on any level of granularity in terms military tactics. In short, what do [...] 128916 59 64_Washington Post - Israeli Struggle Over Targetted Assassinations16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:22:30 -0400491_us-ascii



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/26/AR2006082600917_pf.html





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 128976 21 11_New Orleans16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:48:00 -0400505_ISO-8859-1 Q. What faith-based relief organization with rebuilding experience is helping the post-Katrina reconstruction?

A. Hizbollah.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 128998 88 42_Re: The Knives are out in Israeli Politics13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 13:55:01 -0400579_iso-8859-1 Heidi,

In current assessments of public opinion (and they are not very reliable in any case, in my view; it could be even worse in real elections...) Avigdor Liberman is much more popular among the right-wing public in Israel at this moment than Bibi. But if you have a government with Liberman, Bibi and the extreme right-wing of Likud, Effy Eitam, and Ya'alon to give them the so-called "professional military" coverup, we are going to be really as close to real fascism as it is possible to 'dream,' or rather to dread - to being in a true horror dream [...] 129087 60 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:10:20 -0700568_iso-8859-1 Take me to a therapist as well.

Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 08/27/2006 9:27:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes: Sam, I did ask Alan and our dad & all three of us remember you, Pete & Danny attending. We also remember that you brought your guitar and entertained us after the seder. My dad said to tell you that he is insulted that you don't remember the largest and most lavish seder we ever had. Wow. I will have to go to a hypnotist and get my memories recovered. I have so many memories of that year but [...] 129148 274 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:12:02 -0700505_iso-8859-1 That makes sense now. It is a start in the need to address new teaching styles for the teaching of Hebrew. Roz

Judy Gelman wrote: Actually, the "pre-NETA" seems to be used in 7-12 for kids who come in without the previous Hebrew in k-6. Sorry not to be clearer. When I have heard NETA grads in situations where they absolutely had to use hebrew (otherwise, what kid will do it?), their command of the language was really really impressive--written and oral. Judy [...] 129423 26 20_Re: Good and Welfare12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 16:32:16 -0400 129450 81 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:20:47 EDT339_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/27/2006 2:11:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbarland@YAHOO.COM writes:

Take me to a therapist as well.

Will insurance cover this. My big memory of that year was the great snow storm where we were caught at the University of Chicago. That was a great concert and quite a strange ride home. [...] 129532 78 42_Re: The Knives are out in Israeli Politics0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:24:46 EDT518_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/27/2006 1:57:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:

That is why the ideological right-wing has been repeating everyday since the Hizballah war started (just read Moshe Arens or Israel Eldad on Haaretz) that the reason for the war was the Lebanon and the Gaza withdrawals.

It is only natural that they should say that. What else would you expect them to say. We have twin dangers to Israel. We have the Muslim fanatics and our own Jewish fanatics. [...] 129611 86 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:33:04 EDT506_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/26/2006 7:10:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kbob24@AOL.COM writes:

2) PLEASE, PLEASE don't put the Mets in the same category as the Yankees. While we inhabit the same metro area, there is no connection between the teams and their fans. My wife Nancy proudly wears a Mothers Day T-shirt gift which reads" "I root for two teams, the Mets and whoever is playing the Yankees." I could provide a class analysis fo NY baseball, but you probably aren't that interested. [...] 129698 54 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:39:19 -0700510_iso-8859-1 I remember that Judy Collins concert and quite a few other things from that year, but not the seder. Strange. Insurance may cover part of the cost....

Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 08/27/2006 2:11:01 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbarland@YAHOO.COM writes: Take me to a therapist as well. Will insurance cover this. My big memory of that year was the great snow storm where we were caught at the University of Chicago. That was a great concert and quite a strange ride home. [...] 129753 75 20_Re: Good and Welfare11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:52:09 -0400384_ISO-8859-1 The two populations communicate very well, but in English, not Hebrew. This isn't the way it should be but it is the way it is. It is much harder for Americans to communicate with the Jews from Latin America than with Israelis because Latin Americans don't all speak English fluently. They similarly live on a big continent with one language (mostly) all around them. [...] 129829 72 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:56:32 -0700465_iso-8859-1 At every level, NETA books include excerpts from great Hebrew writers. Texts of increasing length are integrated into the learning materials as the students' Hebrew proficiency advances.



Is NETA all Modern Hebrew? NETA is designed and taught in current Israeli Hebrew and includes texts from all historical layers of the Hebrew language ranging from biblical Hebrew to current scientific Hebrew terminology and common colloquialisms. [...] 129902 76 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:25:17 EDT400_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/27/2006 5:39:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbarland@YAHOO.COM writes:

I remember that Judy Collins concert and quite a few other things from that year, but not the seder. Strange.



That was night I first heard of Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen. She covered their songs. It is hard to believe that was such a historic musical concert for me. [...] 129979 54 15_Re: New Orleans12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:30:13 -0700380_iso-8859-1 I certainly wouldn't put these other organizations in the same category with Hizbollah (though some on this list might), but the American Friends Service Committee is another faith-based relief organization with rebuilding experience that is helping in post-Kartina reconstruction. Another is Habitat for Humanity. What was your point in posting this Q&A? -Sharon [...] 130034 128 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 17:32:24 -0500552_us-ascii I remember this too. *January 27, 1967*: The greatest snowstorm ever to occur in Chicago began on Jan. 26, 1967. The 29-hour duration of the storm brought 23.0 inches of wind-driven snow to the city. ** DURING THE STORM WINDS GUSTED TO 53 MILES AN HOUR...CAUSING CONSIDERABLE BLOWING AND DRIFTING. TRAGICALLY...OVER 50 DEATHS WERE INDIRECTLY RELATED TO THE STORM. THE DIGGING OUT PROCESS WAS SLOW DUE TO THE NUMBER OF ABANDONED VEHICLES. DAYS LATER...FOOD SUPPLIES...MAINLY MILK AND BREAD...WERE STILL DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN IN MANY STORES. [...] 130163 51 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:43:37 -0700407_iso-8859-1 I think we lived through the most amazing times. Sometimes when I talk with my students about my youth and what I have seen and lived through, I am truly shocked. Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: In a message dated 08/27/2006 5:39:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbarland@YAHOO.COM writes: I remember that Judy Collins concert and quite a few other things from that year, but not the seder. Strange. [...] 130215 63 20_Re: Good and Welfare16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:45:29 -0700663_iso-8859-1 And I remember the Judy Collins concert and the L ride home after that concert.....

Shawn Eli Barland wrote: I remember this too. January 27, 1967: The greatest snowstorm ever to occur in Chicago began on Jan. 26, 1967. The 29-hour duration of the storm brought 23.0 inches of wind-driven snow to the city. DURING THE STORM WINDS GUSTED TO 53 MILES AN HOUR...CAUSING CONSIDERABLE BLOWING AND DRIFTING. TRAGICALLY...OVER 50 DEATHS WERE INDIRECTLY RELATED TO THE STORM. THE DIGGING OUT PROCESS WAS SLOW DUE TO THE NUMBER OF ABANDONED VEHICLES. DAYS LATER...FOOD SUPPLIES...MAINLY MILK AND BREAD...WERE STILL DIFFICULT TO [...] 130279 71 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 18:54:19 EDT367_US-ASCII

In a message dated 08/27/2006 6:46:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rbarland@YAHOO.COM writes:

I remember the Judy Collins concert and the L ride home after that concert.....





And getting up the next morning and all you could see of the cars on Paulina were the antennas and the bus stuck in the middle of the street. [...] 130351 21 57_Re: A Power Hitter. And a Source of Jewish Pride/ NYTimes16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 19:32:39 -0400445_- I have to admit, that the Mets do look good this year, but they still smell. Everybody got thier tokens?

(I predict Yankees in game six)

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 130373 274 43_[QUAR] New York Times - Faith & Funny Pages16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 15:26:30 -0400719_us-ascii



The New York Times



------------------------------------------------------------------------ August 27, 2006



Faith and the Funny Pages

By JOHN LELAND

NEWSPAPER readers around the country this month opened their comics sections to see a character preaching the Gospel.

"The Bible tells us that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," the character says, shouting into a cellphone in a crowded place. "But the good news is that the free gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ His son!" [...] 130648 174 20_Re: Good and Welfare17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 20:20:24 -0500452_ISO-8859-1 When you think about everything that happened in the late 60's - Viet Nam, the Six Day War, the Cold War, the assassinations, riots in the inner cities and on college campuses, the music, the drugs, etc... They were, as the Chinese say, interesting times. We were young, and I thought that was the way the world always was. Then in the 80's & 90's I wondered where all the excitement had gone. We are living in interesting times again. [...] 130823 474 37_a good military overview and argument13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:07:55 -0400634_iso-8859-1 From a rather surprising source, some interesting points on the outcome of the latest round of fighting in Lebanon. Very well balanced, in my view, and quite instructive. ___ |Y| ^^^

Misreading the Lebanon war

EDWARD N.LUTTWAK , THE JERUSALEM POST Aug. 20, 2006

In the immediate aftermath of the 1973 October War, there was much joy in the Arab world because the myth of Israeli invincibility had been shattered by the surprise Egyptian crossing of the Suez Canal, and the Syrian offensive that swept across the Golan Heights. Even unbiased commentators noted the failure of the Israeli air force [...] 131298 208 68_Re: Washington Post - Israeli Struggle Over Targetted Assassinations0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 00:35:20 -0400335_us-ascii Elihu - thanks for posting this as I never would have seen it. For others who may have passed by this link, it is an interesting (and long) piece about Israeli's policy of targeted assasinations. It oddly intersects another Habonet thread about Bogey Ya'alon.

The article reads in part like a thriller and begins: [...] 131507 1147 92_Fw: David Shasha: Hey Monty, Let's make a deal: The Gaza Disengagement a Year Later / Tikkun15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 01:10:04 -0700339_Windows-1252 This rather long (for an email list) essay may nevertheless provoke some fresh and useful thoughts among readers who are trying to remain loyal to their progressive Zionist roots and beliefs while beholding the militarist monsters -- Israeli and Arab -- the movement (among other factors, I would add) has spawned. David [...] 132655 62 19_Hostage Crisis/ WSJ16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 04:10:10 -0700711_iso-8859-1 http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008856

Hostage Crisis What is Kofi Annan doing for the kidnapped Israeli soldiers?

BY JUDEA PEARL AND RUTH PEARL Monday, August 28, 2006 12:01 a.m.

As the parents of Daniel Pearl, The Wall Street Journal's reporter who was kidnapped and brutally murdered in Pakistan in 2002, we share the anguish of the families of the kidnapped Israeli soldiers, and their frustration with the international community for failing to secure the release of their loved ones. For more than six weeks now, these soldiers and their families live each day tortured by unimaginable fears and shattered hopes, praying desperately for the [...] 132718 70 33_Secular Yeshiva in Tel Aviv/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 04:23:11 -07001020_iso-8859-1 New in Tel Aviv: Secular yeshiva

Students to combine Gmara and Halacha studies with social activity in south Tel Aviv, conduct full military service Haim Levinson Published: 08.28.06, 13:56



P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} P.pHeader {margin-bottom:4px;COLOR: #001360;font-size: 17px;font-weight: bold;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) [...] 132789 25 20_New Orleans & Sharon16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:22:04 -0400564_ISO-8859-1 It was a sarcastic joke. Not so funny, however, was the original first place listing of Operation Blessing on the FEMA website right after Katrina. Turns out that Operation Blessing is run by Pat Robertson & is a scam front for him to skim cash for some of his profitable subsidiaries. The story was reported in the New York Times w/in a coupla weeks after Katrina. Of course, no one in this administration has done the obvious legal followup, which should include grand jury investigation for fraud & misuse of 501 (c) (3) tax exemption status... [...] 132815 67 24_Re: New Orleans & Sharon12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 07:53:54 -0700608_iso-8859-1 Help me out and include a smiley when you're joking. The world is so weird these days it's tough to tell sarcasm from so-called objective reality. Sometimes it makes me loose my sense of humor entirely. -Sharon

"Elihu D. Davison" wrote: It was a sarcastic joke. Not so funny, however, was the original first place listing of Operation Blessing on the FEMA website right after Katrina. Turns out that Operation Blessing is run by Pat Robertson & is a scam front for him to skim cash for some of his profitable subsidiaries. The story was reported in the New [...] 132883 189 13_Re: A thought11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:15:23 -0700281_iso-8859-1 J----s C---st Noam! Can't you just let something go?

Anyway, on the basis of your reply, I have decided it's not worth my time or my sanity, so the offer is rescinded in your case. I will try to steer clear of you, and not bother you on purpose or directly. [...] 133073 92 20_Re: Good and Welfare0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 12:21:53 EDT464_UTF-8

In a message dated 8/26/2006 10:29:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, gershon-keileh@013.NET writes:

So what I'm suggesting is that in second place after funding the Taglit trips to Israel someone should initiate a serious study by linguists, innovative educators, creative psychologists – you get my drift. They should find out what there is intrinsically on the cellular (almost DNA ) level of the two prime languages of the Jewish people. [...] 133166 97 13_Re: A thought13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 09:37:30 -0700441_iso-8859-1 Perhaps it would be a good idea not to bother anyone on purpose or directly, why is only Noam so lucky??

Steve Klein wrote: J----s C---st Noam! Can't you just let something go?

Anyway, on the basis of your reply, I have decided it's not worth my time or my sanity, so the offer is rescinded in your case. I will try to steer clear of you, and not bother you on purpose or directly. [...] 133264 326 13_Re: A thought11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 10:14:38 -0700362_iso-8859-1 Richard

If you wish, I will put you on the "lucky" list.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: richard smith To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:37 AM Subject: Re: A thought



Perhaps it would be a good idea not to bother anyone on purpose or directly, why is only Noam so lucky?? [...] 133591 53 20_Re: Good and Welfare12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 14:06:01 -0400 133645 89 30_In praise of abnormality/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:16:45 -0700641_iso-8859-1 In praise of abnormality

Current crisis faced by Israel result of crumbling Jewish identity Elisha Haas

#message P{margin:0;} #message UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} #message OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} Many years ago, residents of Mishmar HaEmek held a meeting to discuss why the sons who left the kibbutz were not returning. The elderly Yaakov Hazan rejected the argument that the community's physical state needed improvement and summed his views with one sentence: "We failed in the effort to establish a secular Jewish society." [...] 133735 102 34_Re: In praise of abnormality/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:22:31 -0700806_iso-8859-1 Here is the URL, I forgot to include it before.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3296694,00.html

Rosalind Barland wrote: In praise of abnormality

Current crisis faced by Israel result of crumbling Jewish identity Elisha Haas

#message P{margin:0;} #message UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} #message OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} Many years ago, residents of Mishmar HaEmek held a meeting to discuss why the sons who left the kibbutz were not returning. The elderly Yaakov Hazan rejected the argument that the community's physical state needed improvement and summed his views with one sentence: "We failed in the effort to establish a secular Jewish society." [...] 133838 52 69_Re: In praise of abnormality/ YNET/ Kishalon Ha-Israeliyut Hachadasha16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 16:30:31 -0700751_iso-8859-1 And for those who prefer to read the article in Hebrew, here is that URL.

http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3296650,00.html

Rosalind Barland wrote: Here is the URL, I forgot to include it before.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3296694,00.html







--------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 133891 227 20_America's Rottweiler11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 28 Aug 2006 19:57:20 -0600451_us-ascii Aside from not offering a specific plan to bring lasting peaceful coexistence, Avnery hits a lot of nails on the head. What a mess!

Phil

America's Rottweiler By Uri Avnery Gush Shalom

Saturday 26 August 2006

In his latest speech, which infuriated so many people, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad uttered a sentence that deserves attention: "Every new Arab generation hates Israel more than the previous one." [...] 134119 351 24_Re: America's Rottweiler17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:13:51 +0200582_us-ascii Can we use Avnery's approach as a general standard? Let's take another analogy, just as a help in understanding things:

Following Reconstruction, an African American family purchases some land on the property where they had been slaves and build a productive farm. Then the KKK comes and kills most of the members of the family. Most of the survivors run away to relative safety but a few stay on the property and try to keep it going. Then in the 1960's, after generations of living in the North, more members of the family return to the family farm and start [...] 134471 74 24_Re: America's Rottweiler0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:32:00 EDT623_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/29/2006 4:14:04 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL writes:

Can we use Avnery's approach as a general standard? Let's take another analogy, just as a help in understanding things:

Heidi. Thanks for those thoughtful comments.











------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 134546 150 24_Re: America's Rottweiler17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:41:04 +0200469_us-ascii



No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.6/430 - Release Date: 28/08/2006

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 134697 27 24_Re: America's Rottweiler17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:44:04 +0200165_us-ascii Sorry about the strange fonts on my last post -- something happened when I copied and pasted from the Oxford Encyclopedia site.

Heidi



134725 72 24_Re: America's Rottweiler0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 07:50:01 EDT392_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/29/2006 7:41:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL writes:

I'm not quite sure why a Jew would choose to act as an apologist for people trying so hard to kill Jews, Phil is his own thing. He has his own reality. Listening to his fellow Jews is not his long suit. One has to wonder how he developed such a one sided view of everything. [...] 134798 70 24_Re: America's Rottweiler13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 15:16:55 +0200294_us-ascii Well done Heidi. You should write for a living.

I don't suppose it would also hurt to point out that nobody in this country takes Uri Avnery seriously. If he were simply opposed to Israel's policies it would be one thing, but he is against the very idea of a Jewish state. [...] 134869 70 19_Re: Teaching Hebrew0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 10:19:21 EDT617_US-ASCII I think the Hebrew language problem lies in the lack of integration of Hebrew into other aspects of the school curriculum and this has more to do with the inability of teachers (math science, history, etc) in the school to speak Hebrew. Introducing words, phrases and some language usage in the classroom would help significantly - if teachers spoke the language!Announcments over the PA system are in English for the most part, and even when Hebrew is used, they are followed by English translation. Thus students don't have to absorb the Hebrew. The dayschool environment does not approximate a total [...] 134940 90 19_Re: Teaching Hebrew12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:59:49 -0400 135031 408 78_Bob Freedman/ The Israeli-Hizbollah war: Who won, Who lost, and the road ahead16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:24:29 -0700523_iso-8859-1 Bob Freedman >> >> >> >> >> >> >> THE ISRAELI-HIZBOLLAH WAR: WHO WON,WHO LOST, >> AND THE ROAD AHEAD. >> >> >> >> by >> >> >> >> >> Dr. Robert O. Freedman >> >> >> >> >> A HIZBOLLAH VICTORY? >> >> >> In the aftermath of Israel's month- >> long war with Hizbollah, there have been an eruption of hyperbolic >> claims of "victory" by Hizbollah and its supporters. Some, >> especially in Iran, have gone so far as to claim that Israel's >> "defeat" in the war means that the Jewish state is collapsing, and >> [...] 135440 26 50_Nasrallah for Prime Minister - of Israel - Haaretz11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:58:51 -0400620_ISO-8859-1 This was sent to me who doesn't know Bradley and referred to him as "Israel's Jon Stewart".

What I want to know from you Israelis is whether you think Olmert has really had it and has nowhere to go but "out". And what about Ami Ayalon?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/756175.html

Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 135467 224 19_Re: Teaching Hebrew0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:56:07 EDT648_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/29/2006 11:52:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, gershon-keileh@013.NET writes:

One objection was that teachers of those subjects do not necessarily know English. A big problem!



It would be 'kiddai' to find out if there are enough former Israeli teachers around proficient in the subjects who could pass muster ('bevaksha l'haavir et ha'chardal.') A bigger problem. Salaries at Jewish day schools are low compared to public schools so if you have a college degree (preferably a Masters) and teaching license, you're more likely to work for a public school then in a Jewish day school. We have had [...] 135692 139 19_Re: Teaching Hebrew11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 14:41:01 -0400537_ISO-8859-1 On Israelis in day schools: My son's school has more than a critical mass. It has a whole track of Israeli kids who prepare for bagrut and for the army, etc. They may speak to their parents in Hebrew at home, but they speak english to their friends at school. Even the little ones quickly learn to do this. My friend teaches the Hebrew half of the day in the school's first grade (which includes more than Judaics) and by the end of the year new Israeli kids are talking to everyone in English outside of her part of the [...] 135832 89 24_Re: America's Rottweiler13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 13:02:01 -0700669_iso-8859-1 I really wish people would stop referring to drug dealing as a bad thing!!

Sheldon and Heidi wrote: Just one more little quibble.

Avnery says that "Hizbullah is an authentic Lebanese movement, deeply rooted in the Shiite community." I won't go into the question of what it means that killing the country's Prime Minister and a series of independent journalists provides the basis for being an authentic Lebanese movement. And 'm leaving aside the question of the morality and/or legality of calling for the destruction of another country and launching repeated attacks against citizens of another counrty across an [...] 135922 19 24_An End to the Occupation12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 16:22:03 -0400 135942 91 24_Re: America's Rottweiler11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 19:55:58 -0400606_iso-8859-1 Re: America's RottweilerHeidi,

I think you are missing Avnery's central point, which (as I read it) is that one needs to examine actions in terms of whether they generate progress toward the long term goal, which is no only survival (though that is an obvious prerequisite) but co-existence.

I don't think it is right to blame the Jews for everything (whether one is Lebanese, Palestinian, American or Israeli), but I think most of what you wrote was attacking a "strawman", as I don't really think that is what Avnery was trying to say. Nor do I buy your apparent contention [...] 136034 38 28_Re: An End to the Occupation11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 20:07:48 EDT402_US-ASCII First time I laughed in awhile

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 136073 134 35_The Big Lie About 'Islamic Fascism'11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:25:41 -0600704_iso-8859-1 In lieu of sending whole articles, the following links have some nutritious food for thought. Information Clearing House collates thinkers from outside the corporate spin machine. Read this newsletter online http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/

Phil "Sam's headache" Safier



"The business of America is business": President Calvin Coolidge = "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private power.": President Franklin D. Roosevelt = [...] 136208 59 20_Unadultrated garbage13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 29 Aug 2006 23:43:09 -0400485_ISO-8859-1 Phil Safier, Shalom,

Your URL opened at the "Information Clearing House", which I trust you have read carefully. This is the first time that I have seen this URL and hopefully the last. I don't know who else reads the articles from this site but I can guarantee you that Arabs would bless you for recommending it. One author in particular, Eric Margolis, is a Canadian whose writing appears quite often and his venom spill over with everything that he presents. [...] 136268 18 24_American Rotweiler redux16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 04:56:24 -0400398_us-ascii Write on, Heidi, write on!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 136287 36 28_Re: American Rotweiler redux6_RDBaum23_rdbaum@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:33:17 +0200647_iso-8859-1 For Heidi Way to go Mt.Airy RDBaum !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elihu D. Davison" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:56 AM Subject: American Rotweiler redux



> Write on, Heidi, write on! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 136324 68 28_Re: An End to the Occupation0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:11:26 EDT589_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/29/2006 4:14:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, gershon-keileh@013.NET writes:

An Israeli lands at Heathrow Airport. As he's going through customs, he's > asked: "Occupation?" > He answers "No, no, just tourism !" :-)





Good one!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 136393 62 17_Hassidic scandals16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:41:57 -0400606_us-ascii An Israeli scholar publishes a book that seeks to revisit and clarify some of the most shocking episodes in the history of Hasidism, and it comes under intense criticism and attempts at suppression.

http://www.forward.com/articles/new-book-reveals-darker-chapters-in-hasidic-histor/



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 136456 165 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 12:08:41 -0600597_us-ascii Dear Moshe,

I will continue to raise troubling questions about the nature of the conflicts in the Middle East and the growing threat of all manner of fascists regardless of religious, ethnic, or racial origin. You may not consider that a valuable service to Habonet but your attack has little impact without substantive arguments. When you say that "the Arabs" would bless me, which Arabs do you mean? Should I distrust all Arabs? Should I trust all Jews? How about Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby, Richard Perle, and Elliot Abrams, to name a few of the Jews who lied [...] 136622 66 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:21:02 -0400571_us-ascii







Should I trust all Jews? How about Doug Feith, Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby, Richard Perle, and Elliot Abrams, to name a few of the Jews who lied us into the worst foreign policy disaster in history?



How ironic that you Phil of all people single out the neo con Jews who have led us to such pain. You Phil helped to put these guys in power by opposing the election of Al Gore. You can strike out against the neo cons all you want, but those of us who have long memories, know that Phil speaks out of both sides [...] 136689 60 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 11:47:56 -0700437_iso-8859-1 Perhaps if Democrats (including Sam) would stop blaming Nader voters for all the crimes of the Bush administration and instead would look at what turned millions off of voting Democratic in recent elections, then maybe (just maybe) they would put up candidates more people felt able to support (with or without holding their noses). Stop re-losing the last 2 elections and start focusing on winning the next one! -Sharon [...] 136750 19 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:57:12 -0400 136770 169 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:54:01 +0200445_us-ascii Damn Phil, I just knew that you were a secret Bush supporter and that all those funnies from the Information Cleansing House were just decoys. Heh.

Impressive. Most impressive.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 8:21 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Unadultrated garbage [...] 136940 159 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:05:26 -0400483_us-ascii











Perhaps if Democrats (including Sam) would stop blaming Nader voters for all the crimes of the Bush administration and instead would look at what turned millions off of voting Democratic in recent elections, then maybe (just maybe) they would put up candidates more people felt able to support (with or without holding their noses). Stop re-losing the last 2 elections and start focusing on winning the next one! -Sharon [...] 137100 93 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:06:52 -0400551_us-ascii







Damn Phil, I just knew that you were a secret Bush supporter and that all those funnies from the Information Cleansing House were just decoys. Heh.

Impressive. Most impressive.

Jon \

And you Jon are an open Bush supporter even as we speak. You and Phil can be our neo con book ends. You go together well. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free. [...] 137194 23 18_Is IDF a Misnomer?12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:01:41 -0400588_us-ascii Haverot/im Were all Israel's wars defensive? Well. while the 1948 War of Independence and the 1973 Yom Kippur War were, there is no doubt that the Sinai Campaign of '56 and the Six Day War were definitely not. Neither was the first Lebanon War. They were either pre-emptive strikes, meaning we attacked to forestall a clear and present danger or were an out and out opportunist foray. I think that the jury is still out on the latest Lebanese imbroglio. Why does Israel send the Israel Defense Forces into elective wars? Might as well ask surgeons why they perform elective [...] 137218 74 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:16:04 -0400502_ISO-8859-1 My god, Sam! I had to hold my nose to vote for Gore and for Kerry too but I went ahead and did it. I gave them money too--no doubt why both of them have their campaigns bugging me as they launch their doomed 2008 campaigns. I thought they were both terrible candidates and only voted for them because they were Democrats and Bush was worse. I voted against both in the primaries but I don't think I have ever voted in the primaries for a presidential candidate that won the nomination. [...] 137293 177 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:31:32 -0400565_us-ascii



Subject: Re: Unadultrated garbage



My god, Sam! I had to hold my nose to vote for Gore and for Kerry too but I went ahead and did it. I gave them money too--no doubt why both of them have their campaigns bugging me as they launch their doomed 2008 campaigns. I thought they were both terrible candidates and only voted for them because they were Democrats and Bush was worse. I voted against both in the primaries but I don't think I have ever voted in the primaries for a presidential candidate that won the nomination. [...] 137471 76 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 13:45:01 -0700552_iso-8859-1 I agree that Al Gore has been a strong environmental advocate longer than Nader has even known what the Green Party stands for. But Gore was Vice President for 8 years and did, essentially, zip to protect the environment. He talked a good game in the 2000 election, but his record as Veep made me question what he would actually do in office. His poor campaign was part of the problem, his record as VP was another part. And talking about what a great guy he's been since leaving office is really beside the point. Look at all the good [...] 137548 269 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:57:05 -0500461_us-ascii Will someone please name a U.S. presidential election in the last 50 years that was /not/ a choice between the lesser of two evils. As for Gore / Bush, does it get any worse than George? Five years into his failed war on terror (Iraq for the last 3 1/2 years) the best he can do is to change its name*. Meanwhile we can all look forward to the next video release from Bin Laden. (*http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/30/gop.fascism.ap/index.html) [...] 137818 39 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:26:57 EDT397_US-ASCII eisenhower/stevenson (x2)

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 137858 48 22_Re: Is IDF a Misnomer?13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:29:37 EDT463_US-ASCII amnon,

to me it's not about wanting to talk, but rather what exactly is it you want to say, and what do you want/hope/expect to hear.

steven

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 137907 137 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:31:24 -0400644_us-ascii







I agree that Al Gore has been a strong environmental advocate longer than Nader has even known what the Green Party stands for. But Gore was Vice President for 8 years and did, essentially, zip to protect the environment.

That is absolutely not true. First if we consider the record of the Clinton Gore adminstration there were numorous environmental acheivements. They stopped road building in our national forests and put an end to a lot of clear cutting. They declared new National Monuments to put land off limits for developers. They helped to set limits on mercury emmissions. Much of [...] 138045 79 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 16:43:06 -0500628_us-ascii One of the better choices for sure. Too bad George doesn't spend as much time on the golf course as Ike.

Steve Hancoff wrote:

> eisenhower/stevenson (x2) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew College > , which offers online courses and an online > MA in Jewish Studies . > > To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > [...] 138125 54 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 15:06:36 -0700482_iso-8859-1 I'm not interested in debating about the achievements of the Clinton/Gore administrations, at least not this afternoon.

smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: (snip snip) And I suppose that you seem to be hinting that we are better off with Bush than we would have been with Gore.



I cannot think of anything that I have ever written that would indicate this. I cannot see where you would have gotten this impression other than from your imagination. -Sharon [...] 138180 104 22_Re: Is IDF a Misnomer?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:16:13 +0200577_us-ascii Amnon, one of the strange aspects of the military profession is that one can be, as you put it, a career general - there really aren't any non-career generals - who can go through their careers without fighting, even though they spend their careers learning how and preparing for war. Imagine a banker who, in the course of a thirty-year career, never carries out a financial transaction. Of course generals generally want to fight because it's the only way that they can use what they have learned but the thoughtful ones - and, believe me they exist - hate war [...] 138285 78 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 19:57:43 EDT362_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/30/06 1:58:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes:

> Will someone please name a U.S. presidential election in the last 50 > years that was not a choice between the lesser of two evils.

Kennedy/Nixon.

As for Gore / Bush, does it get any worse than George?

No. Worse than Hoover, IMO. [...] 138364 42 15_Hebrew programs20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 17:01:32 -0700568_iso-8859-1 Is Tal Am the same as Tal Sela? My kids did that at a Schechter day school, and I thought it went further than 4th grade.

Naomi



--------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 138407 132 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:30:22 -0500586_us-ascii Kennedy/Nixon is another good one. I agree with you about Hoover but that wasn't in the last 50 years.The 1920's was the last time that the Republicans controlled all three branches of government for an extended period. Deja vu.

DebALev@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 8/30/06 1:58:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > sbarland@WI.RR.COM writes: > >> Will someone please name a U.S. presidential election in the last >> 50 years that was /not/ a choice between the lesser of two evils. > > > > Kennedy/Nixon. > > As for Gore / Bush, does it get any worse than [...] 138540 42 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 21:34:32 EDT450_US-ASCII Aw, Shawn, but your ? about GWB didn't say in the last 50 years.

Debbie

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 138583 82 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:43:01 -0500634_us-ascii Same paragraph, but no matter. Your points are well taken.

DebALev@AOL.COM wrote:

> Aw, Shawn, but your ? about GWB didn't say in the last 50 years. > > Debbie > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew College > , which offers online courses and an online > MA in Jewish Studies . > > To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > [...] 138666 150 14_Islamo-Fascism16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 03:49:12 -0400487_us-ascii In Habonet 2006-236, Shawn Eli Barland wrote

> Five years into his failed war on terror (Iraq for the last 3 1/2 > years) the best he can do is to change its name*.

Shawn then gives a url to an un-bylined AP politics column from the CNN website. The column is entitled "The New GOP Buzzword: Fascism." The article would have one believe that the notion of Islamo-Fascism was just invented by Republican spin-meisters. Nothing could be farther from the truth. [...] 138817 89 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:00:48 -0400739_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: Elihu D. Davison To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:49 AM Subject: Islamo-Fascism



.... That said, however, Republicans are not wrong in their categorization of Islamic Fascism.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Right - even a blind squirrel stumbles across a nut every now and then.

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 138907 51 19_Re: Hebrew programs16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 05:02:58 -0700339_iso-8859-1 No, it is not. It is started as Tal Sela and moved way on. Right now it has a program that runs through 3rd grade , with 4th grade in the works.

Naomi Goldberg Honor wrote: Is Tal Am the same as Tal Sela? My kids did that at a Schechter day school, and I thought it went further than 4th grade. [...] 138959 213 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:43:13 -0500577_us-ascii Elihu, I agree with you completely. radical Islam is real, it is growing and it is a huge threat to the entire international community. As you say, the GOP did not originate this terminology. I identify with the progressive tradition and I have no problem calling Islamo-Fascism what it is. Bush was absolutely correct when he labeled it as such. If only he and his administration would come up with an effective plan to do something about it. Iraq could have even aided in this effort if it had not been done so ineffectively and incompetently. No Jew could not [...] 139173 27 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 09:19:37 -0400634_ISO-8859-1 On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 07:43:13 -0500, Shawn Eli Barland wrote:

>...Anyone who really >believes in fighting radical Islamic fascism /and its causes/ should >pray for a new and more competent administration in Washington.

Hope and pray, sure, but work toward and vote for too! :-)

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 139201 118 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism17_Shawn Eli Barland18_sbarland@WI.RR.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:44:48 -0500444_us-ascii Noam writes: /Hope and pray, sure, but work toward and vote for too!/ Amen. Having been indoctrinated and trained in the great activist tradition of Habonim, I worked for and donated money to the Democrats in '04 & will probably do so again. By the way, when I wrote that we must fight Islamic fascism /and its causes/ I was referring to its internal roots in their educational system and religious and governmental institutions. [...] 139320 220 51_How to protect civil liberties - from The Spectator13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 16:55:20 +0200667_us-ascii How to protect civil liberties Alan Dershowitz

Harvard

It is five years since the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, but Western democracies have not even begun to address seriously, and in a nuanced way, the moral and intellectual challenges posed by the relatively new phenomenon of mass-casualty suicide terrorism. The traditional paradigm by which we have long confronted harmful conduct - waiting until the harm occurs and then punishing the harm-doer to deter others - cannot work with the suicide terrorist who welcomes the ultimate punishment. A new paradigm, relying more on anticipatory and preventive measures, [...] 139541 49 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 08:26:04 -0700578_iso-8859-1 The root causes of Islamic fascism also include the arrogant belief that it is the West's (read: the US) "manifest destiny" to rule the world economically, politically, and socially. We (I use the term broadly) have acted as if American domination is inevitable and the rest of the world would do best to simply accept it--and the sooner the better. We helped create a fertile field in which this radical ideology could take root. I don't say this to imply the Islamic fascism is "our fault," but that we need to recognize our role in its development if we hope [...] 139591 100 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 10:26:42 -0600582_us-ascii Fourteen Defining Characteristics Of Fascism By Dr. Lawrence Britt Source Free Inquiry.co 5-28-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. [...] 139692 249 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:29:11 -0400622_iso-8859-1 In the spirit of wide political agreement that seems to be crystallizing here toward the upcoming mid-term elections I would like to express a few core political convictions of mine, which are impossible to prove:

1) Yes, Nader's failed candidacy in 2000 was a big part of the cause of Gore's defeat to Bush, precisely in the same manner that without Ross Perot's stubborn and failed candidacy in 1992, Bill Clinton would not have ascended to power in the White House. I warned of the political dangers inherent in Nader's irresponsible political adventurism, and I expressed that conviction two or [...] 139942 36 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:40:28 -0400384_us-ascii Let me start up front with a disclaimer: I haven't been able to keep up with all my Habo-mail lately, so I apologize in advance if I'm repeating something that's already been said.

Having said that...

Elihu, I respectfully disagree. Islamism most certainly is *not* fascism, and Bush is 100% wrong to refer to the range of Muslim evils as Islamo-Fascists. [...] 139979 346 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:56:44 +0200520_windows-1255 Yuval, I know I probably shouldn't ask, but considering that all of the 9.11 hijackers were in America and actively planning the hijackings in the 1990's and that the original plot to destroy the WTC was carried out in 1993, on what do you base your point number 2?

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Yuval Warshai Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 6:29 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Islamo-Fascism [...] 140326 24 30_Christendom was Islamo-Fascism12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:14:45 -0400 140351 58 35_The Failure of Western Universities13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@KSASA.CO.IL31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 21:18:36 +0200418_us-ascii http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/1282/print

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 140410 67 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:42:32 -0400 140478 103 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:42:36 -0700649_iso-8859-1 Thanks.

amnon hadari wrote: Hey Sharon, This is a good one ami ----- Original Message -----

From: Sharon Gates Date: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:26 am Subject: Re: Islamo-Fascism

> The root causes of Islamic fascism also include the arrogant > belief that it is the West's (read: the US) "manifest destiny" to > rule the world economically, politically, and socially. We (I use > the term broadly) have acted as if American domination is > inevitable and the rest of the world would do best to simply > accept it--and the sooner the better. We helped create [...] 140582 59 34_Re: Christendom was Islamo-Fascism12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 11:44:44 -0700373_iso-8859-1 Maybe I should learn to write in Old (Olde?) English, so I can live in Pagandom. -Sharon

amnon hadari wrote:



Elihu wrote Bernard Lewis, whose seminal work I greatly admire, uses the term "Christendom" as his nomen for the West. Many Jews might bridle to use that term; Lewis, of course, is an identifying Jew. [...] 140642 241 18_Re: Islamo-Fascism11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 14:00:58 -0700453_iso-8859-1 Sharon

As usual, I don't get it. Thank you for your patience with me.

Just the one point : HOW did "Manifest Destiny" help create Islamo-Fascism?

Steev



----- Original Message ----- From: amnon hadari To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Islamo-Fascism





Hey Sharon,

This is a good one

ami

----- Original Message ----- [...] 140884 74 24_Re: Unadultrated garbage0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:05:15 EDT624_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/30/2006 6:07:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:

I'm not interested in debating about the achievements of the Clinton/Gore administrations, at least not this afternoon.

If you were not interested in debating the accomplishments of Clinton/Gore why did you attack those accomplishments with lies? You attack with lies an then claim to be above the fray. I will just assume that your comments about Al Gore's environmental record as VP were some kind of brain blip. I do hope Sharon that you will hold yourself to a higher standard in the future. [...] 140959 47 23_another Reuters mistake16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 31 Aug 2006 19:16:20 -0700663_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3298184,00.html

But experts from Inkas Armored Vehicle Manufacturing and First Defense International Group, both armored vehicle manufacturers, told the Confederate Yankee blog that photographs of the damaged jeep were not consistent with the Reuters claim.

"The damage to the roof looks to me very consistent with possible shrapnel penetration from an object other than a rocket or missile itself… The damage to the back window is certainly not consistent with any missile, bomb or rocket blast that would have occurred on impact if a rocket were fired around and directly at the vehicle." [...]