1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet July 2006 2 639 80_Fw: [Jewish-news-humor] I recommend this for reading aloud at yourShabbat table!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 1 Jul 2006 08:20:03 -0700659_iso-8859-1

If for no other reason than the warmth.

Enjoy.

Steve



Subject: Fw: [Jewish-news-humor] I recommend this for reading aloud at yourShabbat table!





The Shabbos Goy: by Joe Velarde





Snow came early in the winter of 1933 when our extended Cuban family moved into the Williamsburg section of Brooklyn. I was ten years old. We were the first Spanish speakers to arrive, yet we fit more or less easily into that crowded, multicultural neighborhood. Soon we began learning a little Italian, a few Greek and Polish words, lots of Yiddish and some heavily accented English. [...] 642 822 18_Fw: New York Times11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 1 Jul 2006 12:02:19 -0400681_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: Steve Klein Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:57 AM Subject: Re: New York Times



----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:17 PM Subject: New York Times



Fellow 'Netters

I haven't heard anyone weighing in on the firestorm over the NY Times article about the covert foreign banking operation. We have all gotten most of the facts by now: Someone high in the government or military leaked information concerning the covert operation mentioned above. The Times was then asked not to publish the information, with [...] 1465 72 18_Re: New York Times12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Sat, 1 Jul 2006 18:25:51 -0400379_ISO-8859-1 Steve,

Noam beat me to the punch, but I wanted to respond to your message as well.

1) Steve, you should read "A Secret the Terrorists Already Knew," an Op-Ed piece in yesterday's Times by Richard Clarke and Roger Cressey. Clarke and Cressey served as counterterrorism officials on the National Security Council under Presidents Clinton and Bush II. [...] 1538 79 21_Re: Days of Dostevsky19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM30_Sun, 2 Jul 2006 01:19:14 -0400 1618 106 18_Re: New York Times11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sun, 2 Jul 2006 07:09:12 -0700451_iso-8859-1 dAVID

i WON'T HAVE A CHANCE TO READ YOUR AND nOAM'S FORWARDED ARTICLES AND COMMENTS UNTIL THIS EVENING Sorry, caps were on.

I still ask the main question; Where does the line exist? How damaging does the information have to be before an overeager press says"Wait- this is too much. This is over the line." Nowhere? I am surprised you missed that part of my question. In any case, it is the only part I really care about. [...] 1725 158 18_Fw: New York Times11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:24:34 -0400472_iso-8859-1 And let me just add, since you admit you responded without bothering to read what David and I wrote, that the point is that to be pro-American in my view is to support the constitutional system which provides for a balance of powers and the rule of law. Others choose to label anyone who objects to any policy of a particular administration as unpatriotic. I know which I believe to be true to the founding ideals of our country. Where do you stand Steve? [...] 1884 109 17_speaking of leaks11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sun, 2 Jul 2006 19:37:24 -0400424_iso-8859-1 Hi Steve,

I'm wondering about your lack of outrage at the whole Valerie Plame leak business. I ask because you are concerned about leaks that compromise intelligence operations and place people at risk. I'm not talking about Plame herself, or her husband Joseph Wilson who some might claim Darth Cheney was trying to "get" for criticizing the whole "mushroom cloud" rational for the invasion of Iraq. [...] 1994 591 17_A voice of sanity15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sun, 2 Jul 2006 16:51:12 -0700473_iso-8859-1 Amid all the posturing, not to mention pointless and self-defeating death and destruction, a sane voice cuts through. Please read Gidon Levy from Ha'aretz. David Mandel

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 2586 99 21_Re: A voice of sanity11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sun, 2 Jul 2006 21:47:40 -0400446_iso-8859-1

Not sure I get it David. Why no mention of the pointlessness or self-defeating insanity of the continued qassam attacks? The insistence on the destruction of Israel? The invocation of the protocols of the elders of zion? Is it really only one side that is posturing here?

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: David L. Mandel To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 7:51 PM Subject: A voice of sanity [...] 2686 213 21_Re: A voice of sanity15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sun, 2 Jul 2006 20:10:57 -0700614_iso-8859-1 I'm sure Levy agrees with you about the "pointlessness or self-defeating insanity of the continued qassam attacks," as I do. But his identity and his audience are the Israeli Jewish public. That's whom he's addressing. Someone needs to stop the cycle. Moreover, his main point (he didn't articulate it in this piece, but I'll presume he'd agree) is that the massive attack on Gaza is not really meant to rescue the captured soldier or even to stop the qassams. It's to destroy the democratically elected Palestinian Authority. No accident this is all occurring just when Haniya and Abbas agreed on [...] 2900 168 21_Re: A voice of sanity11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 07:36:10 -0400420_iso-8859-1 I think you make a big mistake if you disregard what the Palestinians say or dismiss it as "the posturing of a few angry and foolish people". Those people are deadly serious and are as you say the democratically elected Palestinian Authority. I also don't understand your apparent belief that the Palestinians would honor "the international consensus". I think you are the one who is perpetuating myths. [...] 3069 104 39_Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 07:37:07 -0400640_ISO-8859-1 Dear Habonet,

I thought you'd be interested in this letter Ameinu received in its capacity as the US affiliate of the International Labor Zionist Movement. It is from MK Collette Avital, International Secretary of the Israel Labor Party. It is especially interesting as a counterpoint to the Haaretz article by Gideon Levy that David Mandel sent last night. Of course, their respective status explains a lot. Gideon Levy is a columnist known from his provocative opinions. Colette Avital is not only a member of the governing coalition and also a professional diplomat who was ambassador to France and Consul General [...] 3174 64 48_Encouraging children to become shaheeds/ Haaretz16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 05:11:50 -0700553_iso-8859-1 PA television airs clip encouraging children to become shaheeds By Nadav Shragai, Haaretz Correspondent

This week, Palestinian television reprised, after a three-year absence, a clip featuring Palestinian child Mohammed a-Dura, calling to other children to join him in a shaheed heaven for children.

The dramatic heart-wrenching footage of a-Dura, shot dead in crossfire in a clash between Israeli and Palestinian forces in the Gaza Strip in the beginning of the intifada in September 2000, was broadcast around the world. [...] 3239 50 13_Dump Holy Joe11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 13:36:27 -0600570_iso-8859-1 Anyone go to shul with this mamzer? If you know him and don't encourage him to fall on his sword, shame on you. Joe Lieberman embodies the phrase "a shanda for the Goyim." The war criminal "president" kisses him. Oy!

And speaking of shandas... where's Amnon? Will someone give me the ganse megillah on his infamous trip to Californicate? I saw a few outraged emails but never really knew what evoked the critical responses. I thought he had achieved such hallowed status that none dare speak ill of him. Have the mighty really fallen? Who's next? [...] 3290 144 14_Jewish Life TV12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:02:46 -0700508_iso-8859-1 For anyone interested- you can check out our television network at : www.jewishlifetv.com. For now we are streaming on the internet; beginning Spetember 10, we go on satellite ( i.e. it wil be carried on regular cable and satellite just like the History Channel); and on December 10, we start to air live programming. This is the first free 24/7 Jewish television network in the US. Anyone interested in contacting me for programming opportunities ( i.e. for exposure) please email me....Sue [...] 3435 159 18_Re: New York Times13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:22:04 -0700423_iso-8859-1 Whatever line there was was obliterated because this administration continually shows an inablity to tell the truth.

Why no outrage at the Wall Street Journal? They published the same information on the same day. Could it be the editorial boards that the administration is really upset with? The LA Times also published the same report and has not recieved the criticism that the Times has recieved. [...] 3595 429 18_Re: New York Times11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:43:26 -0700433_iso-8859-1 Richard

So let me get this straight: If the Times would have known about "ENIGMA" during WWII, it would have been OK to treat it as everyday news?

As far as the WSJ is concerned, it was my understanding that they lagged behind the Times.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: richard smith To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:22 PM Subject: Re: New York Times [...] 4025 75 17_Re: Dump Holy Joe11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 14:47:53 -0700637_iso-8859-1 Phil

What do you know about Lamont?

And what would you think of Liberman's chances in '08?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Safier" To: Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: Dump Holy Joe



> Anyone go to shul with this mamzer? If you know him and don't encourage > him to fall on his sword, shame on you. Joe Lieberman embodies the phrase > "a shanda for the Goyim." The war criminal "president" kisses him. Oy! > > And speaking of shandas... where's Amnon? Will someone give me the ganse > megillah on his [...] 4101 189 21_Re: speaking of leaks11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 15:25:04 -0700394_iso-8859-1 Noam

Mea culpa. I did not take up the banner of Valerie Plame when I could have. This was a very serious incident, and there is little love lost between me and the batch of sleazeballs you mentioned. In fact, it is because of Cheney I pray every day for Bush's health. During that same time, I had other causes taking up my energies and what few brain cells I have left. [...] 4291 164 43_Re: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 12:07:00 -0700558_iso-8859-1 A brief reply to Avital's spin, and to Noam Stopak's rejection of my comment on our self-destructive mythology, copied and pasted here: "I think you make a big mistake if you disregard what the Palestinians say or dismiss it as "the posturing of a few angry and foolish people". Those people are deadly serious and are as you say the democratically elected Palestinian Authority. I also don't understand your apparent belief that the Palestinians would honor "the international consensus". I think you are the one who is perpetuating myths." [...] 4456 69 18_Re: New York Times0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 22:57:37 EDT399_US-ASCII

In a message dated 07/03/2006 5:22:52 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM writes:

Why no outrage at the Wall Street Journal? They published the same information on the same day.



Now it would not due for the Administration to attack the Wall Street Journal. That would not be their style especially if they are out to score political points. [...] 4526 222 43_Fw: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:06:12 -0400583_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: "David L. Mandel" Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza



> Thanks for the polemic. Glad to know we are on a last name basis. > > I didn't say that we don't have some self-destructive myths - show me > where in the words you cut and pasted that I said that. What I did was > challenge what appears to be your mythology. > > I'm still waiting to hear why you disregard what the Palestinians have > been [...] 4749 330 43_Re: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 21:58:20 -0700383_iso-8859-1 Noam:

Sorry for the last -name formality; since I was responding to you and Collette Avital together and it would have been weird for even informal me to use her first name, I opted for the parallel. ... I don't think we've actually ever met. Apologies if so.

I'm glad you recognize that "we" have some self-destructive myths. Good. Let's work on them. [...] 5080 114 17_Re: Dump Holy Joe11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 23:14:45 -0600489_us-ascii Steve, Steve, Steve. Do you have enough flags to wave on the 4th? Got one big enough to wrap up in like your chickenhawk heroes?

I would vote for you over Schmucking Joe and you're the last person I would vote for. As far as his chances in '08, I fervently hope J_e ceases to draw breath well before that. What a piece of dreck. Another one who disgraces the Jewish People(tm) like Savage, Medved, Fleischer, Perle, Feith, Kissinger and the rest of the war criminals. [...] 5195 195 18_Re: Jewish Life TV11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 3 Jul 2006 22:31:29 -0700506_US-ASCII For anyone interested- you can check out our television network at : www.jewishlifetv.com. For now we are streaming on the internet; beginning Spetember 10, we go on satellite ( i.e. it wil be carried on regular cable and satellite just like the History Channel); and on December 10, we start to air live programming. This is the first free 24/7 Jewish television network in the US. Anyone interested in contacting me for programming opportunities ( i.e. for exposure) please email me....Sue [...] 5391 98 29_Treason You Can Get Away With8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 14:19:05 +0200617_us-ascii Treason You Can Get Away With by James Dunnigan July 4, 2006

Because the war on terror is fought in a peacetime atmosphere, treason can be presented as dissent, and you can get away with it. Case in point is the energetic pursuit, and publication, of U.S. intelligence gathering techniques, by the American media. The latest one was the reporting of how the U.S. has been analyzing international bank wire transfers. This apparently led to the capture of several prominent terrorists, especially in Southeast Asia. But to opponents of the war, this is an assault on civil liberties, attacks they [...] 5490 92 18_Re: Jewish Life TV12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 07:09:08 -0700364_iso-8859-1 We aren't doing orioginal programming yet- just "plugging in" stuff already ready to broadcast- That is a greta idea, and I of course love it- why don't you have people shoot some stuff with a digital video, then you can send us some footage and we can try and edit something. together...We don't start airing oriiginal stuff until the fall....sue [...] 5583 33 17_Re: Dump Holy Joe11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:13:11 -0400411_ISO-8859-1 Instead of just hating him and wishing that he disappear, you could take action--Send his opponent money, now and in the general election.

Now a question: if Joe wins as an independent, do you think he will align with the Democrats or the Republicans in the votes over party control of committees, etc ? He votes like a Republican most of the time. Will he realign completely? Any ideas? [...] 5617 18 34_Put your money where your mouth is11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:18:40 -0400418_ISO-8859-1 https://secure.nedlamont.com/page/contribute

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 5636 135 17_Re: Dump Holy Joe0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:18:54 -0400411_us-ascii An article (link below) on the front page of today's NY Times answers Judy's questions in detail. For those in a hurry:

1 - He will vote with and caucus with the Democrats and remain one for all purposes. 2 - The Republican opponent does not sound credible.

Joe has an interesting explanation/rationalization why it is "kosher" (pun intended) to take the steps that he has outlined. [...] 5772 168 43_Re: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 11:37:13 -0400358_iso-8859-1 David,

What is the basis for your belief that the PLO unofficially accepted coexistence? What I've read is acceptance of the need to start with a base in the territories previously occupied by Jordan and Egypt, and then build toward the day of complete conquest. Both sides have made "official" commitments that have not been honored. [...] 5941 211 43_Re: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:03:25 -0400347_iso-8859-1 Noam,

Good discussion this one you're having with David Mandel. I'm very happy there is a new and articulate voice for peace on this list. I am just reading the good arguments on both sides with interest. Regarding the last paragraph of your last response I think I could add one thought. You wrote, in that last paragraph: [...] 6153 110 43_Re: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 12:29:43 EDT437_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/04/2006 12:02:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:

These elements, I believe, are still very well represented even in the current "center-left" coalition that is at the helm of the Israeli government. Even more so, they are even better represented in the leading echelons of Israel's army and intelligence/security apparatus. How can we deal with these facts/tendencies? [...] 6264 122 21_Re: speaking of leaks11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 13:05:22 -0400442_iso-8859-1 That's a great start Steve. Of course, there are still many unanswered questions in our discussion about the New York Times and since you are fond of calling others to task when they aren't responsive, I'll remind you that there are many questions pending.

Hope you are giving some thought this Independence Day to our founding ideals and recent events which are undermining the freedoms for which our founders fought. [...] 6387 49 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:00:13 -0400483_iso-8859-1 Hi Jon,

As I mentioned to Steve, these rants against leaking will only be credible when their authors call for the heads of Novak, Libby, Cheney, et. al. Until then it is merely partisan posturing.

Do you really buy Dunnigan's assertion that no civil liberties harm has come as a result of intelligence operations in the US? Have you been away so long you've forgotten the abuses that lead to the enactment of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act? [...] 6437 107 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:20:15 -0400388_iso-8859-1 July 4, 2006 NY Times Op-Ed Columnist Don't Turn Us Into Poodles By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF With President Bush leading a charge against this "disgraceful" newspaper, and a conservative talk show host, Melanie Morgan, suggesting that maybe The Times's executive editor should be executed for treason, we face a fundamental dispute about the role of the news media in America. [...] 6545 100 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 01:07:36 +0200518_us-ascii Hi Noam,

Thanks for responding but you haven't changed my mind. In my opinion, what it really all comes down to is whether one considers the US to be at war or not. As I see it, a big swathe of the party out of power does not think that their country is involved in a legitimate conflict and/or that the current administration has the legitimacy to wage it. Hence, any stick in the spokes is justified, even if it's a perfectly legal program that the NY Times itself advocated 2 weeks after 9/11. [...] 6646 252 43_Re: Israel Labor Party on Operation in Gaza15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 16:13:27 -0700571_iso-8859-1 To answer your questions one by one, Noam:

Read hundreds of statements, op-eds interviews, debates (including in Arabic) over the past 25 years. The top Palestinian leadership fully accepted two states and public opinion followed. There's been some backtracking in the past few years as the world failed to fulfill its promises and the settlements, walls, roads, closures, etc. all escalated to the point of causing despair. But that could be easily reversed with a serious initiative that forced Israel to comply with the international consensus. [...] 6899 106 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 19:57:06 -0400552_iso-8859-1 Well Jon, I don't deny there is a conflict, but I do think it is different from either the US Civil War or WWII. This is an open ended engagement against an enemy which is poorly defined (and not I don't think this administration has the credibility to define who is and isn't a terrorist - there needs to be a fair judicial process to make that determination - that's at the heart of the values we are celebrating today). In this kind of situation, it is incumbent upon the administration to work to build consensus, and to operate in [...] 7006 85 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:20:55 -0600591_us-ascii Thanks for the apologetics Jon but that crap doesn't fly anymore. I don't buy your premises.

The Bushitters (probably with their cohorts in Saudi Arabia and Israel) invented the "war" and gullible Amerikans swallow their lies hook, line, and sinker. When did Bin Laden, if he even had anything to do with 9/11, stop working with and for the CIA? Why does he remain at large and conveniently appear just when W needs him? What a ridiculous charade. Arab terrorists under every bed to replace the Commies. If a threat existed, don't you think we would have seen some real [...] 7092 43 17_Re: Dump Holy Joe11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 4 Jul 2006 23:25:25 -0600676_us-ascii Dear Judy,

When you assume that I only hate Lie Berman and have not also contributed to his opponent, you make an ass out of Uma Thurman.

Gut Yontiff, Phil



>Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 10:13:11 -0400 >From: Judy Gelman >Subject: Re: Dump Holy Joe >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Instead of just hating him and wishing that he disappear, you could take >action--Send his opponent money, now and in the general election. >Now a question: if Joe wins as an independent, do you think he will align >with the Democrats or the Republicans in [...] 7136 122 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With12_Sharon Gates21_sbgates@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 08:31:54 -0700602_us-ascii Well said, Noam. -Sharon

-----Original Message----- >From: Noam Stopak >Sent: Jul 4, 2006 4:57 PM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Treason You Can Get Away With > >Well Jon, I don't deny there is a conflict, but I do think it is different >from either the US Civil War or WWII. This is an open ended engagement >against an enemy which is poorly defined (and not I don't think this >administration has the credibility to define who is and isn't a terrorist - >there needs to be a fair judicial process to make that determination - >that's at the heart [...] 7259 60 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 12:01:46 -0400602_us-ascii Are you forgetting the briefing entitled "Osama Bin Laden determined to attack US" the month before? I know the fellow that was assistant secretary of homeland security for protection of critical infrastructure

I believe there person you are talking about is Richard Clarke. He was one of the national security advisers left over from Clinton and he had worked in the first Bush adminsitration. Richard Clarke today claimes that he had been very concerned about an Al Quieda attack on the US and so had Clinton. He stayed on in his words to help alert the new adminstration to the [...] 7320 41 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:34:48 -0700565_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak"



> In this type of situation, it is incumbent upon the administration to work > to build consensus. . . . . . . . .

Noam

Why?

(Was there an American consensus getting into WWII? Was there a consensus in the Civil War? Would we ever get a consensus on (or with) the U N ?) Admittedly, the Iraqi part of the war on the terrorists is uniquely different from all the other situations, but if you will notice, so they are from each other. It isn't always neat and tidy. [...] 7362 62 31_Re: the need to reach consensus11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:48:56 -0400395_- Because in our system it isn't acceptable to just say "trust me" - there is supposed to be oversight of the executive by the legislative branch, and review of executive actions by the judiciary. If the executive claims it doesn't need to do these things that are required by law and the constitution, then we need a national consensus that that is ok or else they are just seizing power. [...] 7425 196 18_Re: New York Times13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:34:25 -0700383_iso-8859-1 I guess there is no reason to say anything since you will somehow say I mean something different.

To compare what the NY Times (and the Wall Street Journal on the same day) did with revealing a real secret is absurd. Bush had announced that they were going to try to follow terrorist money a few years ago. Perhaps he is the real traitor and not the NY Times? [...] 7622 151 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:50:54 -0700340_iso-8859-1 "This is done to help prosecute the war successfully and to protect the populace - like the way Lincoln suspended habeas corpus or the way FDR rounded up the Japanese."

Interesting that both examples you give here have been found to be illegal. Pluis the fact that this "war" is an Orwelian one which will never end. [...] 7774 84 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 14:54:04 -0700391_iso-8859-1 Yes there was a consensus on WWII Steve and also during the Civil War (though not as great as WWII) which Lincoln worked very hard to build.

Steve Klein wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak"



> In this type of situation, it is incumbent upon the administration to work > to build consensus. . . . . . . . . [...] 7859 229 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 16:56:00 -0700399_iso-8859-1 Richard

Whatever. My recollections were that American were VERY divided and extremely isolationist as far as entering the "European war'. But never mind that.

My question is still, WHY?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: richard smith To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: Re: Treason You Can Get Away With [...] 8089 93 31_Re: the need to reach consensus11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 5 Jul 2006 17:04:33 -0700643_iso-8859-1 Noam

Well answered. Sorry for the last reply. I hadn't noticed this.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: Re: the need to reach consensus



> Because in our system it isn't acceptable to just say "trust me" - there > is > supposed to be oversight of the executive by the legislative branch, and > review of executive actions by the judiciary. If the executive claims it > doesn't need to do these things that are required by law and the > constitution, then we need a [...] 8183 384 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 07:33:47 +0200524_windows-1255 Richard, do you have a poll or some other publication to back up your last claim?

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of richard smith Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 11:51 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Treason You Can Get Away With



"This is done to help prosecute the war successfully and to protect the populace - like the way Lincoln suspended habeas corpus or the way FDR rounded up the Japanese." [...] 8568 21 16_Watch this space12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:09:54 +0200557_us-ascii My poor war casualty computer is finally being reunited with its owner. Some may welcome this as the triumph of gurus over intractable broken computers while others may consider running for cover. In any case I'll be online again soon.

Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8590 19 9_birthdays12_Sharon Gates21_sbgates@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 07:43:30 -0700313_us-ascii Happy birthday to the 14th Dalai Lama, who today celebrates 71 years on earth, this time around at least. Today also happens to be the birthday of Nancy Reagan, Merv Griffin, Bill Haley, Frida Kahlo, and, oh yeah, George W. Bush. Imagine them all reading the same horoscope in the paper :-) -Sharon [...] 8610 67 8_Question11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:18:23 -0700403_iso-8859-1 In a recent discussion, a friend of mine postulated a question that I don't know the answer to (imagine that!): He asked "Why, when the Jordanians took over the "Palestinian territory of the West Bank" from 1948 to 1967 and even killed some 15,000 of the indiginous Palestinians one fine September thereafter, did no one speak of the West Bank as "occupied territories"?! Good question? [...] 8678 63 19_Krauthammer Article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:21:38 -0700545_iso-8859-1 Can someone find the URL for the Krauthammer article of July 10. 2006 Time Magazine? Well-written and to the point on discussions of "cycles of violence" and where responsibilities lie in the current mess in Gaza.

Steve



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8742 468 34_Gorenberg on the poltical dilemmas13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 16:40:13 -0400364_iso-8859-1 The Forward article below, even though already 6 or 7 days old (almost an 'eternity' in ME politics), is a good analysis of the political options, or lack thereof, ahead. If only by the fine distinction it makes between the coarse, bulk "terrorism" concept, and the more accurate one in this particular case: that of guerrilla warfare. ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 9211 31 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 17:05:43 -0400393_- On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:21:38 -0700, Steve Klein wrote:

>Can someone find the URL for the Krauthammer article of July 10. 2006 Time Magazine? Well-written and to the point on discussions of "cycles of violence" and where responsibilities lie in the current mess in Gaza. > >Steve

Is it really that hard to go to time.com and click around a bit? [...] 9243 34 12_Re: Question12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 18:55:13 -0400582_us-ascii Steve,

I cannot answer your "friend"'s question about Jordan's occupation of the West Bank directly, as I wasn't alive for 3/4 of the period in question and was too young to grasp the nuances of Middle East politics for the other 1/4.

Nevertheless, I find it hard to believe that your "friend" knows for a fact that "no one" -- not one single person, anywhere on the planet -- ever described the West Bank as occupied territory in all of those 19 years. Perhaps your "friend" meant to say that he never *heard* anybody describe the West Bank as occupied [...] 9278 39 13_Re: birthdays11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 19:56:35 -0400621_iso-8859-1 and don't forget my mother-in-law Dolly Sturman of Louisville Ky., may she have many more.

:-)

Noam

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Gates" To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: birthdays



> Happy birthday to the 14th Dalai Lama, who today celebrates 71 years on > earth, this time around at least. Today also happens to be the birthday > of Nancy Reagan, Merv Griffin, Bill Haley, Frida Kahlo, and, oh yeah, > George W. Bush. Imagine them all reading the same horoscope in the paper > :-) > -Sharon [...] 9318 73 12_Re: Question11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 20:39:43 -0400379_ISO-8859-1 The area covered by the Balfour Declaration wasn't supposed to be divided into Jordan, Palestine and Israel. It was to be divided into a country for the Arab population and a country for the Jews. Israel and Jordan. This is why some people claim that the Palestinians already have a state--Jordan. But current circumstances don't fit the plans Lord Balfour made. [...] 9392 56 12_HaDag Nahash0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 23:09:04 -0400326_us-ascii I was shmoozing with Alex Sharone, the current mazkir of Habonim Dror about Hadag Nahash today (they performed at both the Zionist Congress and the world veida of Habonim Dror) and he mentioned that the lead singer's parents (or just one of them) were on Workshop. He said someone on Habonet knows who they are. [...] 9449 56 13_Re: birthdays6_Sharon12_sw@IGLOU.COM30_Thu, 6 Jul 2006 23:51:16 -0400425_us-ascii Lee Shai and I are very fond of Dolly and are glad to hear that she is celebrating her birthday.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:57 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: birthdays

and don't forget my mother-in-law Dolly Sturman of Louisville Ky., may she have many more. [...] 9506 51 16_Re: HaDag Nahash0_25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:56:00 +0200484_iso-8859-1 Sha'anan Streett is the lead songwriter and rapper. Parents are Brian Streett from Baltimore, and Ruth Reich Streett from NY (Queens), both on my 14th Workshop.

Trudy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9558 122 16_Re: HaDag Nahash0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 08:02:33 -0400458_us-ascii Thanks to Sue and Trudy for the info. Very cool - hats off to the 14th workshop!

Shabbat Shalom,

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 07:56:00 +0200 Subject: Re: HaDag Nahash



Sha'anan Streett is the lead songwriter and rapper. Parents are Brian Streett from Baltimore, and Ruth Reich Streett from NY (Queens), both on my 14th Workshop. [...] 9681 145 82_Fw: The Palestinians are preparing the next generation of homicidebombers...!.!.!.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:10:14 -0700571_iso-8859-1

Nothing new here. There may be a lot of little Palestinian children meeting their fathers this way. Sad and pathetic that the PA would still do this to their own children.

Steve



Subject: Fw: The Palestinians are preparing the next generation of homicidebombers...!.!.!.



The Palestinians are preparing the next generation of homicide bombers... PA Television airs clip encouraging kids to become shaheeds (Martyrs) Posted: 7/3/2006 2:19:00 PM Author: Haaretz - Nadav Shrangai Source: http://www.standwithus.com [...] 9827 56 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 10:18:02 -0700660_iso-8859-1 Noam

Thank you for the advice.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: Re: Krauthammer Article



> On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:21:38 -0700, Steve Klein > > wrote: > >>Can someone find the URL for the Krauthammer article of July 10. 2006 Time > Magazine? Well-written and to the point on discussions of "cycles of > violence" and where responsibilities lie in the current mess in Gaza. >> >>Steve > > Is it really that hard to go to time.com and click around a bit? > [...] 9884 4436 72_[QUAR] Fw: Palestinian Media Watch: Jesus the Palestinian In PA ideology11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:44:16 -0700599_Windows-1252

Just when you thought they couldn't get crazier:

Steve



Subject: Fw: Palestinian Media Watch: Jesus the Palestinian In PA ideology



Jesus the Palestinian In Palestinian Authority ideology By Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook

The cartoon in today's Al Quds depicts a Palestinian and an Iraqi being crucified on the same cross. This expresses a common Palestinian motif, found in both text and cartoons, that depicts Palestinians as Jesus, and Jesus as a Palestinian. [See below for more cartoons of Palestinians on cross like Jesus.] [...] 14321 40 36_timing is everything. run for cover!11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:11:19 -0600650_us-ascii These posts followed one another in the digest. Gotta love the net.



>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 14:09:54 +0200 >From: amnon hadari >Subject: Watch this space > >My poor war casualty computer is finally being reunited with its >owner. Some may welcome this as the triumph of gurus over intractable >broken computers while others may consider running for cover. In any case >I'll be online again soon. > >Amnon > >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 07:43:30 -0700 >From: Sharon Gates >Subject: birthdays > >Happy birthday to the 14th Dalai Lama, who today celebrates 71 years on >earth, this [...] 14362 257 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:21:02 -0600473_us-ascii Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:21:38 -0700 From: Steve Klein

Can someone find the URL for the Krauthammer article of July 10. 2006 Time Magazine? Well-written and to the point on discussions of "cycles of violence" and where responsibilities lie in the current mess in Gaza.

Steve



But of course you dig Charles Krauthammer(!), darling of the Jewish World Review. He reminds me of Dr. Strangelove. Scary mf. [...] 14620 356 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 7 Jul 2006 19:01:01 -0700540_iso-8859-1 Phil

Thanks for sending the Whitney article. I know your intentions were good. I just don't know why you sent it to me. You have to know by now that Whitney's style of rambling rhetoric isn't going to speak to me in any pursuasive way in any case. Certainly not to "unsell" me on C. Krathammer. You wrote that I "dig" him. Where do you guys come up with this stuff? All I did was indicate I liked the article, which I still do. How does anyone take that and stretch it into a love-affair with the person? Boggles the [...] 14977 20 16_WATCH THIS SPACE12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 04:13:56 -0400 14998 59 37_Source of Krauthammer article on Gaza16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 05:42:20 -0700632_iso-8859-1 CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER ON GAZA: REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED HERE By Charles Krauthammer --> Published in: Time Magazine July 5, 2006 Gaza Is Freed. Yet Gaza Wages War. That Reveal the Palestinian's True Agenda

Israel Invades Gaza. That is in response to an attack from Gaza that killed two Israelis and wounded another, who was kidnapped and brought back to Gaza...which, in turn, was in response to Israel's targeted killing of terrorist leaders in Gaza...which, in turn, was in response to the indiscriminate shelling of Israeli towns by rockets launched from Gaza. Of all the conflicts in the world, the one that [...] 15058 90 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 08:49:06 -0400514_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" To: Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Krauthammer Article



> Phil > > Thanks for sending the Whitney article. I know your intentions were good. > I just don't know why you sent it to me. You have to know by now that > Whitney's style of rambling rhetoric isn't going to speak to me in any > pursuasive way in any case. Certainly not to "unsell" me on C. > Krathammer. [...] 15149 61 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 09:16:42 -0400408_iso-8859-1 but no thanks for the assistance. ok, I'm good with that.

yet I don't get why it puts you off if someone suggests you could help yourself, especially since you are so fond of giving others research tasks.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" To: Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Re: Krauthammer Article [...] 15211 177 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 07:12:27 -0700416_iso-8859-1 No I do not but a few years back I was having a discussion with an American/Israeli who had written a book and was going a a book tour which included many radio talk shows (I am sorry I don't have any idea what his name was) and he told me the most common question he recieved from callers to these shows were from those who questioned his loyalty to America because he had been in the Israeli Army. [...] 15389 516 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 17:28:29 +0200611_windows-1255 Ok so, in other words, you're guessing based on some calls on talk radio. Very scientific.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of richard smith Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:12 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Treason You Can Get Away With



No I do not but a few years back I was having a discussion with an American/Israeli who had written a book and was going a a book tour which included many radio talk shows (I am sorry I don't have any idea what his name was) and he told me the most [...] 15906 28 19_BET HANUN REDUX WAS12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 15:13:04 -0400614_us-ascii HAVEROT/IM A much employed ploy of nations with problems is to leapfrog into a discussion of what's wrong with the guys across the border.

Beit Hanun at the northern tip of the Gaza Strip is where Israel's War of Independence ended for me. Our unit, poised there to invade Gaza City was hugely disappointed when we heard we weren't going to get the glory of conquering that great hovel of unpaved streets, sewage flowing everywhere populated by frightened starving children looking at the world through trachoma infected eyes. Why we asked our commanders? Why was the prize snatched away from [...] 15935 84 23_Re: BET HANUN REDUX WAS8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:21:44 +0200474_us-ascii Amnon, I usually agree with what you have to say but I think you've left out the small matters of Qassam bombardments and the kidnapping of one of our soldiers. I don't think anyone is in it for the glory.

Shavuah tov,

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadari Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 9:13 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: BET HANUN REDUX WAS [...] 16020 118 12_Re: Question15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 13:29:46 -0700602_iso-8859-1 A few additions and corrections to Judy's informative reply: 1. The PLO leadership went to Lebanon after Black September in 1970. They went to Tunisia after Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982. 2. The current king of Jordan is Abdullah. 3. I'm highly skeptical of the claim that Abdullah or others in the Jordanian ruling circles want Israel to keep the Jordan Valley as a buffer so the PA won't invade Jordan. Sounds like a figment of the imagination of an Israeli pundit looking for yet another rationalization for annexation. Who can imagine even the Palestinian state we'd like to [...] 16139 48 31_we kimosabe? (was Re: Question)11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 18:19:04 -0400634_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. Mandel" To: Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: Question



>A few additions and corrections to Judy's informative reply: ... > 3. I'm highly skeptical of the claim that Abdullah or others in the > Jordanian ruling circles want Israel to keep the Jordan Valley as a buffer > so the PA won't invade Jordan. Sounds like a figment of the imagination of > an Israeli pundit looking for yet another rationalization for annexation. > Who can imagine even the Palestinian state we'd like to see becoming a > [...] 16188 58 16_Uncanny parallel15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 15:58:16 -0700496_iso-8859-1 An extremely important article to read for those who think the Gaza operation can "succeed," whatever that means. David http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1151794314/

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

16247 93 35_Re: we kimosabe? (was Re: Question)15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 16:20:29 -0700645_iso-8859-1 The Palestinian position and international consensus for 20 years now: a state in the WB & Gaza (pre-'67 borders) with true sovereignty, control of resources and border crossing and a corridor between the two parts. If an Israeli government ever accepted that principle, there would be space for negotiating all sorts of arrangements to guarantee security for both states, with international help. Some mutual border adjustments could even occur, as long as they were freely negotiated and mutually beneficial. As far as I'm concerned there's no reason in principle why some Jews couldn't choose to live in the Palestinian state [...] 16341 281 35_Re: we kimosabe? (was Re: Question)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sat, 8 Jul 2006 21:09:12 -0400546_us-ascii David:

I have no problem with a little dreaming at dark times like this, but:

1) You talk about the "Palestinian Position" for 20 years now has been a state in the West Bank and Gaza. Unfortunately that isn't even the position of the current Prime Minister of the Palestinian Authority, if you mean such a state would exist side by side with Israel. If the Hamas prime minister would state such a thing, it would really empower the broader peace camp (I am speaking of the majority of Israelis, not just Gush Shalom). [...] 16623 144 17_The Jordan Buffer0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Sun, 9 Jul 2006 00:22:21 EDT418_US-ASCII <<3. I'm highly skeptical of the claim that Abdullah or others in the Jordanian ruling circles want Israel to keep the Jordan Valley as a buffer so the PA won't invade Jordan. Sounds like a figment of the imagination of an Israeli pundit looking for yet another rationalization for annexation. Who can imagine even the Palestinian state we'd like to see becoming a threat to Jordan by ground invasion?>> [...] 16768 31 10_Beit Hanun12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET30_Sun, 9 Jul 2006 08:12:46 -0400598_us-ascii Jon, You wrote:



Amnon, I usually agree with what you have to say but I think you've left out the small matters of Qassam bombardments and the kidnapping of one of our soldiers. I don't think anyone is in it for the glory.

Shavuah tov,

Jon I may have left out Qassams and kidnappings but believe me deespite my years I haven't forgotten, And if I had, the constant force feeding by the government and media would ensure that I couldn't. The thrust of what I wrote relates to the profligate expenditure of resources both emotional and financial that Israel [...] 16800 138 20_Re: WATCH THIS SPACE11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:54:50 -0600373_us-ascii Amnon,

Asses, as you well know, produce lots of muck, and someone has to rake it. It's a dirty job and often evokes strong language. If you can't take the smell, get out of the stables. This tent shelters all kinds of minds. You may put mine down, but that won't stop me from calling a spade a spade. You shovel the biblical crap and I'll shovel mine. [...] 16939 478 35_Re: we kimosabe? (was Re: Question)15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sun, 9 Jul 2006 12:49:20 -0700611_iso-8859-1 Hamas's statements would read a lot differently if you or I were its chief advisers. But Haniya and others (as opposed to some in Hamas who are true rejectionists) have made it abundantly clear they'd go for two states if Israel were serious about it. When pushed to "recognize Israel's right to exist," however, they reply, to paraphrase: "How about someone recognizing our right to exist for a change? That's what's truly under threat, not Israel. Doesn't anyone notice the occupation?" They have a very good point. Arafat and Abbas gave all the recognition they possibly could, and where did [...] 17418 101 28_YIDDISH LANGUAGE DEVELOPMENT11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:03:02 -0600564_us-ascii http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/bronze/yiddish.htm

Fascinating theory of the origin of Yiddish in Basque. Remember, never put all your Basques in one exit.

The first two may apply to me but not the third.

Phil Anderer

am ha-aretz (ill-mannered person), am.-.ha-aretz: ama (mother, Priestess) ahalgegabe (shameless) arretzin (unacceptable): "The Priestess' shamelessness is unacceptable".

apikoros (skeptic, atheist), apik-iku-oroz: apika (perhaps) ikur (sign) orozale (ambition): "Perhaps a sign of ambition". [...] 17520 576 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:36:37 -0700603_iso-8859-1 Richard

My loyalty to America has NEVER been questioned (except, of course, by a small group of people on Habonet), even though I had spent four wars in Israel, and had dodged the American draft for the Viernam fiasco. After coming back to the States, I had the huge privilege of working directly with Vietnam vets and the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund in helping heal the emotional rift between vets and citizenry. It would be difficult to describe the respect afforded me by the vets I worked with, ate with, camped with, shared with. There was never anything but appreciation [...] 18097 85 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sun, 9 Jul 2006 21:43:31 -0700434_iso-8859-1 No, Noam

I certainly thank you (and the several others) that went to the trouble of looking it up. I hadn't really intended to "give others research tasks". I am glad (and grateful) that there were a few good souls with time available at that moment to look it up. I hadn't intended for it to become a burden on anyone, or guessed that someone would go ahead and do it, but resent having done it. My apologies. [...] 18183 125 35_Re: we kimosabe? (was Re: Question)13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:52:36 -0400567_iso-8859-1 David,

I have always subscribed to your little dream below and I still do. This has been basically the dream of Israel's "peace camp" or peace movement, from Shalom Achshav and up to the extreme left of Gush Shalom, for the past 20 or 30 years at least. Actually, up until the Camp David conference II failure in August of 2000, and the subsequent break out of the second Intifada following Sharon's provocative march on the Haram al-Shariff, this used to be the common dream of all the Israeli left, including a good chunk of the Labor Party. [...] 18309 29 10_head butts16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 01:55:23 -0400452_iso-8859-1 Anybody have any ideas about what Materazzi said to Zidane to make him go for that outstanding headbutt in the 110th minute. The pundits here are all hoping it was only something about his mother or sister and not about the prophet Mohammed.

Happy day after Avi Rosenberg Kibbutz Gezer

-------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . [...] 18339 66 58_Metro-Detroit Raffle: Enter to win a Trip to Israel for 2!11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:06:11 -0400346_WINDOWS-1252 Dear Friends, I am posting this on behalf of Metro Detroit Ameinu. If you have questions, please direct them to Barbara Zabitz. Everything I know is contacted here. Judy Gelman



You could win deluxe, 10-day trip to Israel for 2 on the Third Annual Ameinu-Habonim Mission!

Dec. 25, 2006 through Jan. 4, 2007 [...] 18406 26 62_Re: Metro-Detroit Raffle: Enter to win a Trip to Israel for 2!11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:08:30 -0400489_windows-1252 That should read "contained" here.

And Barbara's email is above for your convenience.

Judy

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 18433 26 62_Re: Metro-Detroit Raffle: Enter to win a Trip to Israel for 2!11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 07:15:33 -0400499_windows-1252 I never knew that Habonet strips other addresses out of postings. Barbara's address is here: "Barbara P. Zabitz"

Sorry for the multiple postings- Judy

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 18460 51 14_Re: head butts8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 14:37:56 +0200585_us-ascii The Italians here at Sasa are saying he was complimenting Zidane on his wife's tattoo.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of avi@gezer.org.il Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 7:55 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: head butts



Anybody have any ideas about what Materazzi said to Zidane to make him go for that outstanding headbutt in the 110th minute. The pundits here are all hoping it was only something about his mother or sister and not about the prophet Mohammed. [...] 18512 52 23_Re: Krauthammer Article11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 08:20:02 -0400455_iso-8859-1 As usual you misunderstand. No resentment involved. I was happy to find the article and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. I was just surprised that you thanked me for suggesting that a few clicks at time.com wasn't all that hard to do on your own, but not for actually doing the clicking for you. I made my suggestion in the spirit of "give a person a fish, they eat for a day, teach a person to fish, they eat for a lifetime". [...] 18565 408 21_Re: Days of Dostevsky19_Belinkoff, Dalia E.24_Dalia.Belinkoff@NLRB.GOV31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:08:18 -0400539_iso-8859-1 Come on Aliya-We sang it at our very own Tavor kumsitz not four weeks ago! Dalia





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Aliya Cheskis-Cotel Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 1:19 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Days of Dostevsky





I swear - I never heard of this one! I remember Nyet nyet nitchavo and all kinds of other ones, but not this one! Maybe this one did not make it to Tavor?????? [...] 18974 310 16_Re: HaDag Nahash19_Belinkoff, Dalia E.24_Dalia.Belinkoff@NLRB.GOV31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 10:11:19 -0400683_us-ascii Let's start with the names of the lead singer's parents?





Dalia





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of kbob24@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:09 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: HaDag Nahash





I was shmoozing with Alex Sharone, the current mazkir of Habonim Dror about Hadag Nahash today (they performed at both the Zionist Congress and the world veida of Habonim Dror) and he mentioned that the lead singer's parents (or just one of them) were on Workshop. He said someone on Habonet knows who they are. [...] 19285 65 35_Why Americans don't watch soccer...8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 17:43:23 +0200464_us-ascii They have anvil shooting!

http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/July4th/top_index.htm

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 19351 27 20_Woody Guthrie on PBS12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 19:25:10 -0400667_ISO-8859-1 The PBS series American Masters is set to air a program about Woody Guthrie. Local PBS stations set their own schedules, but the show premieres on Tuesday, July 12.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/guthrie_w.html

(July 14 was Woody's birthday, which is probably why they're premiering the show during the summer.)

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 19379 215 20_Re: WATCH THIS SPACE11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:49:14 -0400599_iso-8859-1 So where are the politeness police (emabear comes to mind) when it is a stalwart of the left who is savaged?

Phil - please try to contain the profanity.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Safier To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2006 2:54 PM Subject: Re: WATCH THIS SPACE



Amnon,

Asses, as you well know, produce lots of muck, and someone has to rake it. It's a dirty job and often evokes strong language. If you can't take the smell, get out of the stables. This tent shelters all kinds of minds. You may put mine down, but [...] 19595 168 20_Re: WATCH THIS SPACE11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 10 Jul 2006 22:45:49 -0600375_us-ascii Dear Noam,

Please define profanity. And who got savaged? And who you callin a stalwart? Where I come from...

Phil, in containment mode.



Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:49:14 -0400 From: Noam Stopak

So where are the politeness police (emabear comes to mind) when it is a stalwart of the left who is savaged? [...] 19764 212 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 07:56:24 -0700326_iso-8859-1 Don't believe I ever said it was a scientific finding but I am willing to bet all I own and all I will ever own that if a poll was done the vast majority of Americans would believe that people who join the armies of other countries should not vote in American elections Jon. Sometimes science isn't necessary. [...] 19977 204 24_Re: Woody Guthrie on PBS0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 11:47:24 -0400493_us-ascii Wow, two of my passions collide tonight - baseball (all-star game) and folk music (Woody's show). Thanks to the DVR, I'll enjoy both.

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 7:25 PM Subject: Woody Guthrie on PBS



The PBS series American Masters is set to air a program about Woody Guthrie. Local PBS stations set their own schedules, but the show premieres on Tuesday, July 12. [...] 20182 82 67_'These children will lead the third intifada'/ Akiva Eldar/ Haaretz16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 08:57:30 -0700652_iso-8859-1 'These children will lead the third intifada' By Akiva Eldar Karen Koning Abu Zayd arrived here six years ago, just before the outbreak of the intifada. She served five years as the deputy commissioner general of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) and has headed the relief organization over the past year. During the course of this year, the Foreign Ministry and office of the coordinator of activities in the territories have stopped frowning when hearing the name UNRWA mentioned. After many years when UNRWA representatives were practically considered Palestine Liberation Organization [...] 20265 705 33_Re: Treason You Can Get Away With8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:02:15 +0200383_windows-1255 On the other hand, sometimes science is necessary, such as when you want to express a certainty. It's easy to bet all you own when you won't really have to wager. In any event, the question is a legal one; as long as ex-pat American citizens are allowed to vote, they will. It would only be treason if I had joined an army of a country that was at war with the US. [...] 20971 66 8_Children11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:32:14 -0700575_iso-8859-1 "What do Gaza's children learn these days about Israel?"

For one thing, they learn that the long-suffering and ever-patient people of Israel will not sit back and absorb rocket after miserable rocket without finally having enough of it.

Steve



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 21038 306 12_Fw: How true11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 10:50:08 -0700582_iso-8859-1 Well written. I happen to agree with the ideas presented. Not that they are all that hard to understand.

Steve

Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2006 13:48:03 -0400 > >From: "David LaBonte" > >My wife, Rosemary, wrote a wonderful letter to the >editor of the OC >Register which, of course, was not printed. So, I >decided to "print" it >myself by sending it out on the Internet. Pass it >along if you feel so >inclined. > >Dave LaBonte (signed) >Written in response to a series of letters to the >editor in the Orange >County Register: >Dear Editor: > >So many letter [...] 21345 58 39_Re: 2 Kumsitzim from NY to Yerushalayim0_25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 23:38:38 +0200338_iso-8859-1 For Aliya,

So is there any more information about the Jerusalem kumsitz - is it next week? Where? I understand people are coming to Israel for a reunion this week of the 15th Workshop - maybe they'll be able to organize to be in Jerusalem as well for this.

Looking foward, with or without Dostoyevsky, Trudy [...] 21404 369 38_Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:52:58 -0400631_iso-8859-1 Begs for a response? Noam

+++++++++++++++++ Aggression Under False Pretenses

By Ismail Haniyeh Tuesday, July 11, 2006; Page A17



GAZA, Palestine -- As Americans commemorated their annual celebration of independence from colonial occupation, rejoicing in their democratic institutions, we Palestinians were yet again besieged by our occupiers, who destroy our roads and buildings, our power stations and water plants, and who attack our very means of civil administration. Our homes and government offices are shelled, our parliamentarians taken prisoner and threatened with prosecution. [...] 21774 424 42_Re: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:24:06 -0700741_iso-8859-1

Noam

What kind of response would you propose?

Steve



(Noam wrote):

Begs for a response? Noam

+++++++++++++++++ Aggression Under False Pretenses

By Ismail Haniyeh Tuesday, July 11, 2006; Page A17



GAZA, Palestine -- As Americans commemorated their annual celebration of independence from colonial occupation, rejoicing in their democratic institutions, we Palestinians were yet again besieged by our occupiers, who destroy our roads and buildings, our power stations and water plants, and who attack our very means of civil administration. Our homes and government offices are shelled, our parliamentarians taken prisoner and threatened with prosecution. [...] 22199 133 42_Re: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 22:30:58 -0400378_iso-8859-1 What would you propose Steve?

I'd say a rebuttal/debunking. Too many big lies for me to even start to deconstruct it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:24 PM Subject: Re: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed





Noam

What kind of response would you propose? [...] 22333 196 42_Re: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 11 Jul 2006 19:39:33 -0700583_iso-8859-1 I'll try to have something by tomorrow. Not that it will make any difference.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 7:30 PM Subject: Re: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed



What would you propose Steve?

I'd say a rebuttal/debunking. Too many big lies for me to even start to deconstruct it. ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:24 PM Subject: Re: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed [...] 22530 48 14_Second posting19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 05:54:07 -0400 22579 295 42_Re: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 07:19:42 -0400622_us-ascii One thought comes to mind immediately after rea this piece.

Last year I heard a joint presentation by Ami Ayalon and Sari Nuseibah as they had initiated a joint Israeli-Palestinian peace effort. Their joint message was that peace will never be achieved if the argument is over history as everyone has their historical points to make. Peace will only be achieved if both sides agree to set history aside and discuss the present. For example, Nuseibah stated that since a real "right of return" for Palestinians was unrealistic, we need to figure out a reasonable approach to that question. Palestinian [...] 22875 551 42_Fw: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:53:04 -0700625_iso-8859-1 Sadly, on the news this morning were events that portend major conflagration- Hizzbollah has now captured two more Israeli soldiers, and has brought them into Lebanon. Israel has reacted quickly, and the hunt is on, with damage rapidly escalating, and with no real solution in sight, as far as getting the soldiers back is concerned. "Koffi" Anan, by the way, has surprised no one by condemning the Israelis for attacking Lebanon and saying nothing at all of the kidnapping. The really frightening thing about this is the reaction of the [Arab] people in the street: the dancing, singing, rejoicing, shooting [...] 23427 148 4_Poll11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 08:56:30 -0700699_iso-8859-1 Sending this along:

Steve



Poll: Americans justify Gaza operation According to a recent survey, American public opinion remains solidly behind Israel: As long as Palestinians don't release Gilad Shalit and continue to launch Qassam rockets at Israeli population centers, Americans support the IDF operations in the Gaza strip, a new poll revealed, YNET reported. The survey, initiated by The Israel Project, a group intent on improving the perception and portrayal of Israel in the American media, reveals that Americans oppose a capitulation to the current Palestinian demands. Almost half of the American's surveyed (45 percent) blame the Palestinians for the [...] 23576 405 32_Lebanon (was Re: Ismail Haniyeh)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:40:23 -0400339_us-ascii I just participated in a Conference of Presidents conference call regarding the Hezbollah attack on Israel and subsequent capture of two soldiers. This is of course very bad news both in terms of the casualties and the capture of Israelis, as well as what it could mean in terms of heightened tension on the northern border. [...] 23982 155 21_Re: Annan's statement11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 11:57:02 -0700495_us-ascii This is from the London Times online site





http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2266778_2,00.html





Gier Pedersen, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan's representative in Lebanon

"The Hezbollah attack this morning ... is to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. Hezbollah's action escalates the already tense situation along the Blue Line and is an act of very dangerous proportions. This is not in Lebanon's interest." [...] 24138 173 28_Here is another UN statement11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 12:00:47 -0700510_us-ascii Sorry for the double email, but here is another statement with a link:





Rome, Italy, 12 July 2006 - Statement attributable to the Spokesman for the Secretary-General On the situation along the Blue Line

The Secretary-General condemns the attacks by Hizbollah across the Blue Line, which resulted in Israeli deaths and injuries and the capture of two Israeli soldiers. This violent act is a blatant breach of the Security Council resolutions 425, 1559, 1655 and 1680. [...] 24312 245 32_Re: Here is another UN statement0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:47:17 -0400438_us-ascii Thank you for posting this. Had I not seen this here, I would have gone away with quite a different understanding of the UN's response to the attack on Israel.

Sam



-----Original Message----- From: batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 12 Jul 2006 3:00 PM Subject: Here is another UN statement



Sorry for the double email, but here is another statement with a link: [...] 24558 33 46_Re: Fw: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 16:24:48 -0400495_us-ascii From washingtonpost.com:

In Rome, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan condemned the Hezbollah attack "without reservation" and demanded that the captive soldiers be released.

* * *

Steve,

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're just confused and not a liar.

David



> "Koffi" Anan, by the way, has surprised no one by > condemning the Israelis for attacking Lebanon > and saying nothing at all of the kidnapping. [...] 24592 233 36_Fw: Emergency Solidarity With Israel0_25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 23:35:23 +0200450_iso-8859-1 Untitled Document ----- Original Message ----- From: Simon Wiesenthal Center To: Doug Greener Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:26 PM Subject: Emergency Solidarity With Israel





URGENT NOTICE - JOIN US July 12, 2006



WHAT: Emergency So. California Solidarity With Israel WHEN: Thursday . July 13th . 5:00pm WHERE: Simon Wiesenthal Center's Museum Building 9786 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 [...] 24826 49 46_Re: Fw: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:56:04 -0700341_iso-8859-1 I'm curious about the use of quotation marks around Koffi Anan's name. This usually indicates a nickname or pseudonym. What's it mean here, Steve? -Sharon





> "Koffi" Anan, by the way, has surprised no one by > condemning the Israelis for attacking Lebanon > and saying nothing at all of the kidnapping. [...] 24876 1006 32_Re: Here is another UN statement11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:58:03 -0700310_us-ascii I find the best way to find out what is said is to try to go to the person or group being quoted. In this case it was simply going to the UN itself.





For those who want to know more, simply go to the UN site and play around; it's amazing what is being said there every day. [...] 25883 163 46_Re: Fw: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:29:23 -0700577_iso-8859-1 I don't know, Sharon. What does it mean?

By the way, my daughter, who works in Africa, says it is a very common name. I do not know if it is a "nick-".

Steve

PS Koffi's last anti-Jew accomplishment, besides vociferously condemning Israel's actions over the last few days, was to do a photo shoot in front of a special map at the UN in which Israel had somehow been erased. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 1:56 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Ismail Haniyeh - Washington Post op ed [...] 26047 842 36_Re: Lebanon (was Re: Ismail Haniyeh)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 18:41:03 -0700647_iso-8859-1 Ken

Sorry- No link. Two early televized appearances by Mr. Annan were the sources for my statement.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: Lebanon (was Re: Ismail Haniyeh)



I just participated in a Conference of Presidents conference call regarding the Hezbollah attack on Israel and subsequent capture of two soldiers. This is of course very bad news both in terms of the casualties and the capture of Israelis, as well as what it could mean in terms of heightened tension on the northern border. [...] 26890 31 17_Kofi Annan's name11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:40:58 -0400732_ISO-8859-1 From Wikipedia: Kofi Atta Annan was born to Henry Reginald and Victoria Annan in the Kofandros section of Kumasi , Ghana . As with most Akan names , his name indicates the day of the week he was born and place in his family: Kofi indicates a boy born on a Friday, and Annan denotes that he was the fourth child of his family. Annan was a twin , an occurrence that is regarded as special in Ghanaian culture ; his twin sister Efua Atta died in 1991. Atta means twin in Fante . [...] 26922 36 12_from Reuters11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:45:59 -0400650_ISO-8859-1 ROME, July 12 (Reuters) - U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan demanded on Wednesday that Hizbollah guerrillas release captured Israeli soldiers in Lebanon and urged regional leaders to prevent an escalation of the conflict in the Middle East. "I condemn without reservation the attack that took place ... and demand that the Israeli troops be released immediately ..." Annan told a news conference in Rome. Hizbollah guerrillas captured two Israeli soldiers and killed up to seven Israelis, in what Israel described as an act of war by Lebanon that would draw a "very painful" response. Israel mobilised a reserve infantry division and [...] 26959 581 36_Re: Lebanon (was Re: Ismail Haniyeh)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 12 Jul 2006 22:10:56 -0400310_us-ascii Steve- I would respectfully suggest that you are referring to "two early televized appearances by Mr. Annan " about Gaza and not the events in Lebanon which is the topic you raised. This is serious stuff, some of us are engaged in education and advocacy work and it is important to get it right. [...] 27541 82 33_From The Guardian - Israel vs. UK8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:02:50 +0200650_iso-8859-1 The ghosts of Suez

Before the invasion of Egypt, British military chiefs were drafting plans for action against Israel

Keith Kyle Thursday July 13, 2006 The Guardian

'I will not allow you to plunge this country into war merely to satisfy the anti-Jewish spleen of you people in the Foreign Office," Sir Anthony Eden rebuked Anthony Nutting, his Foreign Office minister of state, on October 13 1956, the day before two French plotters came to Chequers. Eden had been haunted by the possible consequences of bilateral treaties signed with Arab states on which British prestige and military facilities were founded. [...] 27624 48 13_Ismail Haniya16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 05:37:09 -0400599_ISO-8859-1 I read yesterday's Washington Post op-ed that appeared under the byline of Hamas p.m. Ismail Haniyeh. It was altogether quite remarkable, making lemonade out of lemons. It reminds me of the Japanese after World War II who opine that Hiroshima and Nagasaki are events that just somehow happened to them deus ex machina--without regard to Pearl Harbor or the rape of Nanking. In any event, it occurs to me: who actually wrote, and placed, the piece in yesterday's Post? I can't imagine that Haniya himself actually put fingers to keyboard in Gaza and then emailed to DC. Haniya may be [...] 27673 25 17_Re: Ismail Haniya11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 08:08:23 -0400471_ISO-8859-1 Dear Elihu,

What is the alternative to being "a useful idiot"?

Judy Gelman

>

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 27699 457 52_[QUAR] TNR - Yossi Klein Halevi on Israel's Next War16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 10:33:06 -0400688_us-ascii The New Republic Online



ISRAEL'S NEXT WAR HAS BEGUN.



Battle Plans

by Yossi Klein Halevi Only at TNR Online Post date: 07.12.06

The next Middle East war--Israel against genocidal Islamism--has begun. The first stage of the war started two weeks ago, with the Israeli incursion into Gaza in response to the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier and the ongoing shelling of Israeli towns and kibbutzim; now, with Hezbollah's latest attack, the war has spread to southern Lebanon. Ultimately, though, Israel's antagonists won't be Hamas and Hezbollah but their patrons, Iran and Syria. The war will go on for months, [...] 28157 102 36_Re: Lebanon (was Re: Ismail Haniyeh)0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:22:08 -0400334_us-ascii





Steve- I would respectfully suggest that you are referring to "two early televized appearances by Mr. Annan " about Gaza and not the events in Lebanon which is the topic you raised. This is serious stuff, some of us are engaged in education and advocacy work and it is important to get it right. [...] 28260 110 17_Re: Ismail Haniya13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:16:04 -0400623_iso-8859-1 Elihu,

The Geneva Accords were reached only post-factum, after the Camp David negotiations had already failed and the new war started. So they couldn't have been, from a simple factual and chronological point of view, "Yasser Arafat's negotiating starting point," as you suggest. But of, course, the maps delineated there and the accords suggested there are the only possible resolution to the conflict that can be ever accepted by maybe a considerable enough number of Palestinians and of Muslim Arabs in the countries around Israel in the Middle East, so as to be the basis of a modus vivendi that [...] 28371 51 15_Ehud Goldwasser0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:34:54 EDT479_US-ASCII Captured Israeli from Nahariya.

Is this a member of the Goldwasser family from Gesher Haziv?



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 28423 204 19_Re: Ehud Goldwasser0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:40:21 -0400409_us-ascii





-----Original Message----- From: JLCAA@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 2:34 PM Subject: Ehud Goldwasser



Captured Israeli from Nahariya.

Is this a member of the Goldwasser family from Gesher Haziv?

Naki and Temmy's only son is Kobi. But that does not mean that Kobi can't have children. Kobi would be in his 50's by now [...] 28628 116 17_Re: Ismail Haniya11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 12:56:54 -0700557_iso-8859-1 Yuval

Two or three hundred years ain't bad. Heck, I am amazed on a daily basis that Israel has existed this long, given the odds.

I take exception to your fatalistic ". . . but the day will certainly come". The Arabs (the ones that are our enemies) use this phrase to stir the pot and keep the tensions high. How true is the phrase? Do you know something no one else on the planet knows? The Arabs, of course, use it for their wishful and delusional thinking. This does not make the phrase truer. And they certainly don't need [...] 28745 249 36_Re: Lebanon (was Re: Ismail Haniyeh)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:12:10 -0700520_iso-8859-1 Sam

I am deeply hurt by your assumption the I was "unphased". I have feelings. Do I not bleed when I am wounded? I was very phased. At least I think I was. I don't know how phased one ought to get in these situations. There is another important element; I didn't realize people were out to phase me. I just toot along, commenting on what I think I know at the moment, and learning from those who care enough to let me know when I get things wrong, when I do. It happens. i ALSO HAVE A GOOD RECORD [...] 28995 62 19_Re: Ehud Goldwasser0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 16:29:30 EDT490_US-ASCII

In a message dated 7/13/2006 2:42:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, smfgrappa@AOL.COM writes:

Kobi would be in his 50's by now



That was what I was thinking.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 29058 205 56_Fw: It's Not Easy, But We Wouldn't Have It Any Other Way11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:45:24 -0700560_windows-1255

Fro Israel

Steve

\2006 8:22 PM Subject: It's Not Easy, But We Wouldn't Have It Any Other Way



It is now 06:00 and I have been awake for more than 3 hours. Part of it is a result of a direct flight home on Tuesday after a 12 day trip to California for the wedding of my niece. The jet lag is very difficult. It was wonderful having had 12 short days to spend with family and friends and to share in the concerns about a wedding cake, spending a Shabbat in beautiful San Francisco and the wonder of shopping [...] 29264 354 45_Fwd: Send Pizza and a message to our Soldiers12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:43:14 -0400 29619 28 46_Youth Movements asked to leave Northern Israel11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 14:48:27 -0700288_us-ascii The link is to the the Hebrew GLZ site, but for those who don't read hebrew, it basically says that all youth groups were asked to leave the north by morning. I believe this would also include the MBI kids who are there.

Let's wish them safety and to everyone there, [...] 29648 20 26_Re: youth groups in israel19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 18:28:11 -0500511_ISO-8859-1 the mbi group has made some changes to it's itinerary. they were in the golan the past few days, and my son reports that they were at a "good vantage point" to see explosions and hear artillery behind them. their day to day plan is ever-changing, and naomi from the central office is doing a great job keeping parents posted. if anyone wants to track their progress and see how things are working, go to the blog naomi produces each day (or several time a day): http://www.mbi2006.blogspot.com/ [...] 29669 202 26_Re: youth groups in israel0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 19:58:29 -0400634_us-ascii Lisa - you win the "calm parent of the month" award - Kol Hakavod. My experience is that Naomi is indeed good at communication during stressful times.

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 13 Jul 2006 7:28 PM Subject: Re: youth groups in israel



the mbi group has made some changes to it's itinerary. they were in the golan the past few days, and my son reports that they were at a "good vantage point" to see explosions and hear artillery behind them. their day to day plan is ever-changing, and naomi from the central office is [...] 29872 144 26_Re: youth groups in israel11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 17:07:49 -0700 30017 126 17_Re: Ismail Haniya13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:13:19 -0400576_iso-8859-1 Steve,

Do you know of any states in history that survived solely on their military might? (Sparta and Carthage come to mind, even though neither of their ends are very inspiring; actually, neither their ends should be an inspiration for a Jewish state, nor their way of life. So now we have not only a "crusader" state, but a "Spartan" state too. Really inspiring for future generations!) Do you believe there can be? I don't. If peace is not attainable, in order to wage constant war I need to know that my state still aspires to peace above all. What [...] 30144 38 37_Re: From The Guardian - Israel vs. UK0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 20:26:56 EDT564_US-ASCII I am writing to Habonet on behalf the Camp Galil Reunion Committee. We have been asking all Galil alumni (and any other interested visitors) to register for the up-coming Labor Day Weekend 60th Year Reunion by the end ot this week. If you are a Galil alum, and are planning to attend, please complete the regisration forms and send in your payment. We very much need to know, IN ADVANCE, how many people to expect, how to plan for those who are camping, how much food to buy, how much help we'll need for children's programming, how many slots we'll [...] 30183 148 25_Re: bleeding when wounded11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:30:29 -0400490_iso-8859-1 Here Steve, I'm willing to help. You were right when you made the point that it is wrong to pick on people for their spelling.

Let us hope that all the wounded stop bleeding soon. Maybe even that the number of wounded stops growing soon. Sooner than 2 or 3 hundred years even. Bimhera, bimhera, b'yomenu b'karov ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:12 PM Subject: Re: Lebanon (was Re: Ismail Haniyeh) [...] 30332 21 6_idiocy16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:21:58 -0400442_ISO-8859-1 Yuval, Lenin also observed that the useful idiots would provide the rope for their own hanging. Yossi Beilin is a rope maker. ELIHU

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30354 153 12_To the death8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 14 Jul 2006 09:30:08 +0200689_iso-8859-1 Yuval, better a live Spartan than a dead Athenian. This is the choice now. Jon



To the death John Lloyd

July 12, 2006 11:25 AM

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/john_lloyd/2006/07/to_the_death.html

The competing explanations for a resort to terrorism are many, but you can more or less group them round two poles.

One of these was vividly expressed in the Guardian last Saturday by Karen Armstrong. Tony Blair had been wrong, she said, to call for moderate Muslims to act and speak out more decisively against radical Islamists. He had missed the point: all Muslims, moderate or radical, were deeply stirred by the sufferings of [...] 30508 74 17_Re: Ismail Haniya15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Fri, 14 Jul 2006 00:48:41 -0700486_iso-8859-1 Yes, we must all agree that Israeli's policy of force and more force, and then some more force, has proven wonderfully productive. Now that we've persuaded the Palestinians to respect us for our strength, we truly have peace in our time. Such a wonderful opportunity to give the Lebanese a reminder. Next month Syria, then by Rosh Hashana, Iran, for sure. The U.S. has so successfully adopted our methods in Iraq, we'll never have to worry about that place again. David [...] 30583 99 17_Re: Ismail Haniya8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 14 Jul 2006 11:17:28 +0200466_us-ascii Yes and we should also all agree how our withdrawals from Gaza and Lebanon were subtle tricks to force the Arabs to attack us, thus giving Israel the excuse to use force to defend ourselves. How clever we Zionists are!

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of David L. Mandel Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 9:49 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Ismail Haniya [...] 30683 593 30_Meretz statement on escalation13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 17 Jul 2006 15:36:11 -0400636_iso-8859-1 The best one I've seen so far. Does anyone here has any serious objections to anything stated and/or demanded below?





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Meretz USA Statement of July 14 on the Recent Escalation on Israel's Borders ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The opening of hostilities, ostensibly between Hezbollah and Israel, on Israel's northern border is a pointed and urgent wake-up call to the entire democratic world that radical forces, concentrated in, but not restricted to the Middle East, are capable of destabilizing the region, and if successful, beyond. [...] 31277 65 7_testing11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 17 Jul 2006 17:39:47 -0400556_iso-8859-1 Is this mic on?

In case you were wondering, Shamash, which hosts this list, experienced an "unprecedented maintenance issue" and is still in the process of recovering, but they say that email to the list should work again.

This is a test

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 31343 301 49_[QUAR] NYT - David Brooks on Israel & Its Enemies16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:32:21 -0400832_us-ascii

The New York Times



------------------------------------------------------------------------ July 16, 2006 Op-Ed Columnist



As Israel Goes for Withdrawal, Its Enemies Go Berserk

By DAVID BROOKS

Why is this Middle East crisis different from all other Middle East crises? Because in all other Middle East crises, Israel's main rivals were the P.L.O., Egypt, Iraq and Syria, but in this crisis the main rivals are the jihadists in Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and, most important, Iran. In all other crises the nutjobs were on the fringes, but now the nutjobs in Hamas and Hezbollah are in governments and lead factions of major parties. [...] 31645 2547 63_Fw: Message on Islamic Fundamentalism from Churchill's Grandson11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 05:47:36 -0700820_iso-8859-1 Message







Please read it ALL. By the Grandson of WINSTON CHURCHILL



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Confronting The Challenge of Islamic Fundamentalism

Address to the Jewish National Fund of Australia

at their Annual Dinner at the Palladium at the

Crown Hotel, Melbourne, on Sunday, 28 May 2006

by Winston S. Churchill







Governor, yr Excellencies, Mr. President,

Members of JNF, Ladies & Gentlemen,





It is both an honour and a pleasure to be your guest in Melbourne tonight, and to have the privilege of addressing this important assembly of the Jewish National Fund of Australia. May I say how delighted I am to be back [...] 34193 64 36_The Way We War/ Etgar Karet/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 07:02:29 -0700572_iso-8859-1 The Way We War By ETGAR KERET Tel Aviv YESTERDAY I called the cable people to yell at them. The day before, my friend told me he’d called and yelled at them a little, threatened to switch to satellite. And they immediately lowered their price by 50 shekels a month (about $11). “Can you believe it?” my friend said excitedly. “One angry five-minute call and you save 600 shekels a year.” The customer service representative was named Tali. She listened silently to all my complaints and threats and when I finished she said in a low, deep voice: “Tell me, [...] 34258 250 37_RMessage from Mazkir of World Habonim0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 11:53:57 -0400564_utf-8 Chaverim Shalom!!! In difficult times such as these it is of great importance that we all lend a hand and do all that we can to help those (our brothers) in distress. Starting tomorrow, the Australian Shnat group will stop their scheduled program in order to join two summer camps that have just been organized by Hanoar Haoved VeHalomed for kids from the North to come South and camp in a safe environment, and to get them away from the atmosphere of fear and uncertainty in the North. The camps will be taking place at two boarding schools – Kiryat [...] 34509 103 45_Solidarity with Israeli Families in the North0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 12:47:28 -0400374_us-ascii Folks:

Since Shamash was down for a few days, I don't know if this announcement about the Ameinu Emergency Children's Fund was previously posted on Habonet. If you want to connect directly with Israel at this time I sincerely think it is a great way to do so. Your contribution, large or small, is welcome and please forward to your friends and family. [...] 34613 78 25_[Fwd: Report from Israel]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 14:17:12 -0400595_windows-1252 Dear Adat Shalomers,

This is a report of some of what is happening on the ground as Israel gets ready for an expected 2-4 weeks more of katyushas.

Chaverim Shalom!!!



In difficult times such as these it is of great importance that we all lend a hand and do all that we can to help those (our brothers) in distress. Starting tomorrow, the Australian Habonim Dror Shnat group will stop their scheduled program in order to join two summer camps that have just been organized by Hanoar Haoved VeHalomed for kids from the North to come South and camp in [...] 34692 158 36_Fwd: David-still under rocket attack13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 15:11:34 EDT551_US-ASCII Dear Habonetters,

Got this from a good friend who lives in his van on a Haifa beach, and works with drug rehabilitation at Rambam near the Haifa port -- Thought you might find this personal account of interest...

Steven and Beth

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 34851 23 32_Naomi Shemer Song- Kad ha Kemach12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 19:43:42 -0700514_iso-8859-1 Does anyone know the words to this song?--Sue

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 34875 126 35_Re: David-still under rocket attack11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 22:59:13 -0400542_iso-8859-1 Thanks Steve and Beth. Any and all firsthand accounts from our chevre in that neck of the woods most appreciated.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Hancoff To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 3:11 PM Subject: Fwd: David-still under rocket attack



Dear Habonetters,

Got this from a good friend who lives in his van on a Haifa beach, and works with drug rehabilitation at Rambam near the Haifa port -- Thought you might find this personal account of interest... [...] 35002 703 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Tue, 18 Jul 2006 23:03:45 -0700685_iso-8859-1 I'm surprised by your satisfaction with this, Yuval. It reads like Alice in Wonderland. Do you really derive solace from the fact that the corrupt, despotic regimes in Saudi Arabia and Egypt, for instance, criticize Hezbollah? The problem with Israeli policy is much bigger than disproportionality, because it didn't start with the hostage-taking raids. The episode on the Gaza border followed incessant bombing that was already killing civilians at an obscene rate, economic strangulation and constant threats against Hamas political leaders, elected democratically whether we like them or not, around a thousand prisoners held without charges (is there a substantive [...] 35706 41 24_Reshet bet tv news, live16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 05:26:37 -0700492_iso-8859-1 Here is the Internet site. http://www.keshet-tv.com/



--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

35748 99 48_David Grossman- Middle East: Shaken Awake by War16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 06:30:34 -0700474_iso-8859-1

--------------------------------- http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-grossman18jul18,0,4708612.story?coll=la-opinion-center From the Los Angeles Times Middle East: Shaken Awake by War Israel is fighting two-headed enemies, one preaching moderation, the other hate. by David Grossman Israeli novelist DAVID GROSSMAN is the author of "Death as a Way of Life: Israel Ten Years After Oslo." This article was translated by Haim Watzman. [...] 35848 64 52_Israel Leaves the Scuds Behind/ Zev Chafets/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:22:50 -0700569_iso-8859-1 July 19, 2006 Op-Ed Contributor Israel Leaves the Scuds Behind By ZEV CHAFETS Tel Aviv ON Sunday my 10-year-old son’s summer camp was shut down; it was judged to be too close to Haifa, too vulnerable to missile attack. Instead, he and his sister are at home in Tel Aviv, busying themselves with yard work. On Monday, the Israeli Air Force discovered and destroyed a Hezbollah rocket capable of hitting our yard in Tel Aviv. There are said to be many more such rockets in the Hezbollah arsenal. So today, when I sent my son and his 9-year-old sister out [...] 35913 42 36_Re: Naomi Shemer Song- Kad ha Kemach15_Dr. Don Goelman25_don.goelman@VILLANOVA.EDU31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 10:33:34 -0400755_ISO-8859-1 Is it the one with the "Hoy chaval she-gam ani eineni kad" chorus? It should be online (as well as in her "kol kitvei" books).

Don

Sue Liberman wrote:

>Does anyone know the words to this song?--Sue > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and >an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > >To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > [...] 35956 81 36_Re: Naomi Shemer Song- Kad ha Kemach12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 07:54:24 -0700612_iso-8859-1 No- it is a different song- it starts out with references to the book of "Melachim"- - perek shiva-asar..."- can't find it online---sue

--- "Dr. Don Goelman" wrote:

> Is it the one with the "Hoy chaval she-gam ani > eineni kad" chorus? It > should be online (as well as in her "kol kitvei" > books). > > Don > > Sue Liberman wrote: > > >Does anyone know the words to this song?--Sue > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > >http://mail.yahoo.com > [...] 36038 51 12_side by side12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:04:05 -0700519_iso-8859-1 The juxtaposition of two posts to Habonet caught my eye.

Zev Chafetz wrote: “We will win,” Mr. Olmert told the Knesset on Monday, and this simple assertion became an instant headline and a rallying cry. Mr. Olmert’s confidence is based on military capacity, of course — fully unleashed there is very little the Israeli Army can’t accomplish against Hezbollah (and beyond) — and on his faith that George W. Bush will give him the time and the international support needed to finish off Hezbollah. [...] 36090 46 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:13:24 -0700695_iso-8859-1 David asked: "...around a thousand prisoners held without charges (is there a substantive difference between that and "kidnapping"?)"

Yes, David, there is. I condemn holding prisoners without charge (well, duh), but there is a substantial difference between holding someone in a prison with at least an attempt to adhere to international standards of treatment including rights of visitation and occasional inspection by third parties, and holding someone in secret and incommunicado under continual threat of gross physical harm or death. Habonetters are familiar with my criticisms of the Israeli government and its attitudes towards the Palestinians, but that does not [...] 36137 115 36_Re: Naomi Shemer Song- Kad ha Kemach16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:35:50 -0700351_iso-8859-1 I do not think thaa Naomi Shemer songs are on-line. You might have to find a book or person who knows the words.

Sue Liberman wrote: No- it is a different song- it starts out with references to the book of "Melachim"- - perek shiva-asar..."- can't find it online---sue

--- "Dr. Don Goelman" wrote: [...] 36253 31 40_Time-Warner cable and The Israel Channel12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:42:15 -0700484_iso-8859-1 Chevre- As of now, the only way to access the Israel Channel is to have DIsh Network. I am initiating a campaign to pressure the cable companies to carry it (They carry the Arab channels!)..So- if you are interested- please go to the websites ( for time-warner- it's www.timewarner.com) and go to the "contact us" tab, and email them that you want them to carry the channel- You don't have to be a custome- you can say that you would be if they added it...THANKS- sue [...] 36285 137 36_Re: Naomi Shemer Song- Kad ha Kemach12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:43:41 -0700571_iso-8859-1 You can find "od Lo Ahavti Dai" and, of course, "Yerushalayim shel Zahav"...but not others- sue

--- Rosalind Barland wrote:

> I do not think thaa Naomi Shemer songs are on-line. > You might have to find a book or person who knows > the words. > > Sue Liberman wrote: No- it > is a different song- it starts out with > references to the book of "Melachim"- - perek > shiva-asar..."- can't find it online---sue > > --- "Dr. Don Goelman" > wrote: > > > Is it the one with the "Hoy chaval she-gam ani [...] 36423 58 28_Re: Reshet bet tv news, live12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 08:45:45 -0700691_iso-8859-1 Thanks roz for this- I have a "MAC" and so I can't even get www.seeisraeltv.com- which is reshet bet transmitteed over the net..(you have to pay $25/month)--so I am stuck with no real way to get an Israel channel and it sucks--but this helps- sue

--- Rosalind Barland wrote:

> Here is the Internet site. > http://www.keshet-tv.com/ > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new > Yahoo! Mail Beta. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of [...] 36482 111 34_Fw: Meretz statement on escalation11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:40:58 -0700546_iso-8859-1



D. Mandel wrote:

killing civilians at an obscene rate, economic strangulation and constant threats against Hamas political leaders, elected democratically whether we like them or not, around a thousand prisoners held without charges (is there a substantive difference between that and "kidnapping"? -- and longstanding refusal to negotiate with even Abbas, let alone Hamas. Is it so far-fetched to think that maybe Hizbullah acted not only opportunistically (which I grant, in part) but also in solidarity? [...] 36594 755 54_Fw: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:48:18 -0700805_iso-8859-1 Subscriber EmailThis REALLY deserves your attention!

Steev











Brigitte Gabriel







Support ACT Subscribe Archives Our Mission Our Vision Get Involved Petitions In the Press Professional Bio Media Contacts Contact Us Links and Resources Reactions Contact Congress











Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters

Dear Rachelle,



I am speaking with Lebanese Christians in Lebanon and they are all fine. Israel is not bombing them or their towns. Israel is bombing the Shiite radical strong holds. This is what the news is not telling you. Israel bombed the airport, the port and the bridges to Syria because they are used to transport weapons [...] 37350 209 66_Fw: A special Support Israeli Soldiers presentation & Today's News11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:50:01 -0700515_windows-1255 For those not yet subscribed

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: JerusalemOnline To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: A special Support Israeli Soldiers presentation & Today's News





Today's Headlines: --------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Dozens of rockets blast the North > One dead in rocket attack on Nahariya > Diplomatic process for ceasefire gets underway [...] 37560 815 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 12:54:02 -0400548_iso-8859-1 Dear David,

I don't have myself any problem with any of your points. I also did not say I was "satisfied" with what I forwarded. I thought it was a rather good statement as an immediate response to the situation on the ground, certainly sharper than the stuff I've seen from Ameinu for example. Again, I was sending that more to the usual vocal crowd on this list, which tends to be much more right wing than center, not to mention left, much to my chagrin. I was just curious to see if that usual vocal crowd could find any [...] 38376 45 58_Re: Fw: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 09:57:26 -0700380_iso-8859-1

Americans who support this group are not American. They merely possess the proper paperwork.

Hmmm, where have we heard this sort of thing before? It always sounds so reasonable when "this group" is not your group. -Sharon



--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. [...] 38422 29 58_Re: Fw: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:18:55 -0400387_us-ascii >> Americans who support this group are not American. They >> merely possess the proper paperwork. > > Hmmm, where have we heard this sort of thing before? It > always sounds so reasonable when "this group" is not your > group.

I agree. It sounds very similar to a recent discussion about former Americans who serve in a foreign army and vote in American elections. [...] 38452 27 70_Re: Fw: A special Support Israeli Soldiers presentation & Today's News12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 14:24:35 -0400668_us-ascii > For those not yet subscribed

Doesn't the word "yet" imply that something is going to happen in the future?

Steve, since you've already forwarded many messages from JerusalemOnline, and since each one includes subscription instructions, anybody who has an interest in subscribing has already done so.

Please, enough already!

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 38480 108 54_Re: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 17:15:36 -0400468_iso-8859-1 Subscriber EmailSteve,

"As sad as I feel watching what is happening in Lebanon, it is absolutely necessary to support Israel to kill the cancer that has spread and is killing the Lebanese body."

This is an eerie echo of recent statements out of Iran.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:48 PM Subject: Fw: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters [...] 38589 59 28_"DOOD KATYUSHAZ R COMIN 2 U"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:59:40 +0200419_us-ascii http://www.defensetech.org/archives/002592.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 38649 24 17_GOD'S LITTLE ACRE12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:06:07 -0400 38674 43 35_Re: David-still under rocket attack0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 02:27:40 EDT443_US-ASCII Am I the only one for whom this was the 4th copy of this?

Debbie

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 38718 74 28_Fw: FW: One way you can help11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 23:45:36 -0700529_iso-8859-1 >The Friends of the Israel Defense Forces has undertaken a $2 million >Emergency Campaign to provide for the needs of the kids serving in Lebanon >and Gaza. Two rest and recreation facilities that have been closed for six >years are being reopened. One is in Kiryat Shemona and the other is in >Akko. All kinds of facilities are needed such as air conditioned large >tents, canteens for relaxation and it is very hot now. >Checks should be sent to FIDF, 29 E. Madison St. Suite 802, Chicago, Ill. >60602. >=Steve [...] 38793 173 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:07:42 -0700611_iso-8859-1 Clearly I wasn't talking about an identity regarding where or how they are held, but the supposed rationale for taking someone in the first place without any charges or due process. Mostly civilians at that, among them hundreds of children, as opposed to the Israeli soldiers who were taken hostage. And if you really want to go there, it's been well established that torture is widespread in the treatment of detainees held by Israel. It's all just plain ugly, no way to run a country or contribute to its survival. David ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 38967 182 54_Re: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:17:29 -0700305_iso-8859-1 Subscriber EmailNoam

For clarity: We are the good guys. Iran is the bad guy. In WWII, the Nazis said they will wipe us out. America said we will wipe the Nazis out. Two sides. One good, one bad. If I have to tell you which was which, what is the point of any conversation with you? [...] 39150 128 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:40:10 -0700555_iso-8859-1

David I am glad you know how to run a country. I sure don't, so I appreciate your contribution to the cause, at a time that support for Israel would seem welcome and appropriate. But who am I? I can't even run my small part of the world. I have a different question: You use the word "children". Let me tell you what it conjures up for me, living here in the United States and having lived in Israel and even visited other parts of the globe. Children, (noun) Cute, cuddly little creatures eager to run outside and play jump-rope, [...] 39279 86 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 08:12:57 -0400405_windows-1252 It may be well known and may even be true that there is torture in Israeli prisons, but the Israeli Supreme Court has rules against it--which is something. Of course a common sense definition of torture and a legal definition and those are not the same. I heartily agree that detentions without charge and torture is certainly no way to win friends and influence people positively. Judy [...] 39366 110 39_From the Kuwaiti English language paper11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:03:51 -0400667_windows-1252 *y Ahmed Al-Jarallah Editor-in-Chief, the Arab Times*



PEOPLE of Arab countries, especially the Lebanese and Palestinians, have been held hostage for a long time in the name of “resisting Israel.” Arab governments have been caught between political obligations and public opinion leading to more corruption in politics and economics. Forgetting the interests of their own countries the Hamas Movement and Hezbollah have gone to the extent of representing the interests of Iran and Syrian in their countries. These organizations have become the representatives of Syria and Iran without worrying about the consequences of their action. [...] 39477 241 36_[QUAR] Fw: No to Syrian, Iran agents11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 19 Jul 2006 22:57:28 -0700698_iso-8859-1

Forwarded by Steve



No to Syrian, Iran agents By Ahmed Al-Jarallah July 19, 2006



The following editorial appeared in the Arab Times (Kuwait) on July 15, 2006.

People of Arab countries, especially the Lebanese and Palestinians, have been held hostage for a long time in the name of "resisting Israel." Arab governments have been caught between political obligations and public opinion leading to more corruption in politics and economics. Forgetting the interests of their own countries, the Hamas Movement and Hezbollah have gone to the extent of representing the interests of Iran and Syrian in their countries. These organizations have [...] 39719 879 101_[QUAR] Fw: DEMONSTRATIONS ALL OVER THE US & the UK, Israel Solidarity Mission, and Gifts for Israelis11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 00:19:10 -0700580_iso-8859-1 DEMONSTRATIONS ALL OVER THE US & the UK, Israel Solidarity Mission, and Gifts for Israelis Information we all can use.

Steve



Subject: Fw: DEMONSTRATIONS ALL OVER THE US & the UK, Israel Solidarity Mission, and Gifts for Israelis











July 17, 2006 More Demonstrations for Israel July is designated Israel Solidarity Month, during which we encourage you to raise your voices, organize and participate in public assemblies on behalf of Israel, and write letters to elected leaders and media as needed. [...] 40599 61 54_Re: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters23_=?UTF-8?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 09:50:13 -0400540_UTF-8 Thanks for clearing that up Steve, I had no idea which side was good and which was bad until you sent your note.

It does seem we are having difficulty establishing a common reference point in order to have a conversation. I guess I need to do some clarification too.

My point is that when the good guys start sounding like the bad guys, perhaps some introspection is in order. When we dehumanize our enemies we are in danger of taking actions that start to blur that line and make it harder to tell which is which. [...] 40661 33 17_god's little acre12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 14:14:26 -0400 40695 44 14_all the news..16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:09:54 -0700517_iso-8859-1 I see it, but I can't believe it. > > http://www.expert.org.il/news.htm > > It's like babel fish.



--------------------------------- Open multiple messages at once with the all new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 40740 49 24_HELP WITH A PHONE NUMBER0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:30:26 EDT463_US-ASCII Can someone out there give me the web address for Bezeq in English or look up a number for me and email me off list: emabear@aol.com? Thanks a buch, Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 40790 43 18_Re: all the news..0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:34:10 EDT465_US-ASCII What is supppost to do or be? Only got three boxes with the Windows logo moving around???????

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 40834 45 18_Re: all the news..16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:33:14 -0700495_iso-8859-1 It is a site with various television stations including the three main Israeli ones with live feed.

Emabear@AOL.COM wrote: What is supppost to do or be? Only got three boxes with the Windows logo moving around??????? --------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 40880 105 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:11:30 EDT612_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/20/2006 10:41:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dlmandel@PACBELL.NET writes:

Is it so far-fetched to think that maybe Hizbullah acted not only opportunistically (which I grant, in part) but also in solidarity?





I don't think Hizzbollah cares all that much about Hamas. They have their own agenda.

It too had some legitimate grievances, including Israel's longstanding policy of kidnapping civilians from southern Lebanon and holding them indefinitely, perioding bombing despite the supposed understanding of cease-fire, persistent threats ... [...] 40986 302 45_Daniel Gordis - The First War, All Over Again16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:25:06 -0400416_us-ascii *** To join this list, send a BLANK email to: gordis-subscribe@topica.com. Or see www.danielgordis.org for more information.

*** Now available: COMING TOGETHER, COMING APART: A MEMOIR OF HEARTBREAK AND PROMISE IN ISRAEL, covering the years 2003 through last summer, from the depths of the Intifada through the disengagement.

The Amazon link is http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0471789615 [...] 41289 461 36_[QUAR] Forward - JJ on right & wrong16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 20 Jul 2006 19:05:49 -0400398_ISO-8859-1

Forward Logo Founded in 1897-Published in New York

Editorial Primal Truths of Right vs. Wrong By July 21, 2006

Something raw and elemental has been laid bare in the current Middle East crisis, exposing certain primal truths about our new world order that many of us might have preferred not to know. [...] 41751 107 20_GOD'S LITTLE ACRE II12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:30:20 -0400 41859 81 30_Fw: 1 minute prayer for Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 07:36:50 -0700596_iso-8859-1











Subject: 1 minute prayer for Israel



In Every Generation



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 41941 94 54_Re: Most Americans in Lebanon Are Hezbollah Supporters11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:31:15 -0700382_UTF-8 Noam

It helps a lot. I have no argument at all with what you just wrote. I also agree that the blurring takes place, especially in times of crisis. For that reason alone, it is good to remember the sides, because it sometimes takes a while for the dust to clear. Sometimes the good guys have to do bad things. And war is always, without exception, a cluster-mess. [...] 42036 76 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 08:56:46 -0700464_iso-8859-1 There is a substantive difference between actions of a democratically elected government and actions of an independent group. The government of Israel must answer to its citizens and its courts. Even if the government's answers are equivocal, slow, obfuscating, or outright lies, the government's actions are overseen by others and are part of an established process. If Hizbollah does terrible/illegal things, with whom does one file a complaint? [...] 42113 86 30_Transforming the Jewish Psyche16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 09:48:40 -0700627_iso-8859-1 July 20, 2006 Edition Transforming The Jewish Psyche

BY WARREN KOZAK July 20, 2006 URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/36370

My guess is, you've been here.

A number of years ago, I was at a small dinner party on Central Park West when another invitee, who taught up at Columbia, started (out of the blue) to berate Israel for all the horrible things it had done to the Palestinian people with its "occupation." When I offered a somewhat different view, the professor responded saying it was really difficult for him to sit there and listen to this "sixth grade logic." I wasn't exactly sure, [...] 42200 103 34_Re: Transforming the Jewish Psyche12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:55:19 -0700690_iso-8859-1 The familiar refrain that a Jew who criticizes Israel is self-hating. I wonder why Jews who criticized Israel way-back-when for being too socialist weren't called anti-semites.

-Sharon

Rosalind Barland wrote: July 20, 2006 Edition Transforming The Jewish Psyche

BY WARREN KOZAK July 20, 2006 URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/36370

My guess is, you've been here.

A number of years ago, I was at a small dinner party on Central Park West when another invitee, who taught up at Columbia, started (out of the blue) to berate Israel for all the horrible things it had done to the Palestinian people with its "occupation." [...] 42304 192 33_The Battle Joined - from Stratfor8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:56:47 +0200669_US-ASCII Red Alert: The Battle Joined The ground war has begun. Several Israeli brigades now appear to be operating between the Lebanese border and the Litani River. According to reports, Hezbollah forces are dispersed in multiple bunker complexes and are launching rockets from these and other locations.

Hezbollah's strategy appears to be threefold. First, force Israel into costly attacks against prepared fortifications. Second, draw Israeli troops as deeply into Lebanon as possible, forcing them to fight on extended supply lines. Third, move into an Iraqi-style insurgency from which Israel -- out of fear of a resumption of rocket attacks -- cannot [...] 42497 107 34_Re: Transforming the Jewish Psyche12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 12:48:11 -0700303_iso-8859-1 Sharon- you just don't get it- Kozak was basically praising the fact that Israel can stand up for istelf and not feel the guilt; in a sort of back-handed way- he makes the case for the Palestinians to take a little responsibility for their lives too--it isn't about self-hating Jews...s [...] 42605 88 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:49:43 EDT570_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/21/2006 12:15:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:

There is a substantive difference between actions of a democratically elected government and actions of an independent group. The government of Israel must answer to its citizens and its courts. Even if the government's answers are equivocal, slow, obfuscating, or outright lies, the government's actions are overseen by others and are part of an established process. If Hizbollah does terrible/illegal things, with whom does one file a complaint? [...] 42694 120 34_Re: Transforming the Jewish Psyche12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:32:16 -0700528_iso-8859-1 Sue- You have your reaction to Kozak's piece and I have mine. Saying that I "just don't get it" implies there is only one point being made in the article. I disagree. -Sharon

Sue Liberman wrote: Sharon- you just don't get it- Kozak was basically praising the fact that Israel can stand up for istelf and not feel the guilt; in a sort of back-handed way- he makes the case for the Palestinians to take a little responsibility for their lives too--it isn't about self-hating Jews...s [...] 42815 41 34_Re: Transforming the Jewish Psyche12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:33:39 -0400535_us-ascii Sharon wrote: > The familiar refrain that a Jew who criticizes Israel is self-hating. I wonder > why Jews who criticized Israel way-back-when for being too socialist weren't > called anti-semites.

To which Sue replied: > Sharon- you just don't get it- Kozak was basically praising the fact that Israel > can stand up for istelf and not feel the guilt; in a sort of back-handed way- he > makes the case for the Palestinians to take a little responsibility for their lives > too--it isn't about self-hating Jews...s [...] 42857 300 37_Re: The Battle Joined - from Stratfor13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:36:19 -0400576_iso-8859-1 So, according to these supposedly very intelligent military intelligence experts, Israel has two very bad choices/options:

"Israel can buy time, or Israel can occupy and pay the cost. One or the other."

They don't exactly say what this price to be paid is, but we know it pretty well. It is a substantial number of daily or weekly or monthly casualties as Israel suffered in the last 4 or 5 years of its previous Lebanon occupation that ended in 2000, or as the US now suffers in its occupation of Iraq. I don't know how long the US can maintain [...] 43158 214 37_Re: The Battle Joined - from Stratfor11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:46:18 -0400661_ISO-8859-1 Jon, Nice to know you have been allowed above ground for a while. We;ve been hearing that food supplies are running low in the north. What can you tell us? Shabbat shalom- Judy

Jon Baum wrote:

>Red Alert: The Battle Joined >The ground war has begun. Several Israeli brigades now appear to be >operating between the Lebanese border and the Litani River. According to >reports, Hezbollah forces are dispersed in multiple bunker complexes and are >launching rockets from these and other locations. > >Hezbollah's strategy appears to be threefold. First, force Israel into >costly attacks against prepared fortifications. Second, draw [...] 43373 61 29_Response to God's Little Acre12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:51:46 -0400 43435 303 37_Re: The Battle Joined - from Stratfor8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:01:05 +0200541_us-ascii Dear Judy,

Thanks for your concern. The situation here at Sasa is a little nerve-racking but not dire. The battles at Avivim and Maroun el-Ras are close enough for us to hear the small arms and we are, of course, on high alert. So far we've not been struck, although our closest neighbors have - a person who works at our factory was injured in Jish - and we have to keep track of anyone who leaves the kibbutz but, in general we are doing our best to maintain a normal a life as is possible under the circumstances. As [...] 43739 177 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:14:42 -0700556_iso-8859-1 There are dozens of UN resolutions that Israel has ignored. And probably hundreds more quite reasonable ones that were or would have been unanimous but for U.S. vetoes or threats of vetoes that scuttled them before formal proposal. Of course Hizbullah has its own agenda. So has everyone else involved. And none of them seem to have to do with the welfare and true security of the peoples of the region. Davia From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Meretz statement on escalation [...] 43917 316 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:32:51 -0700633_iso-8859-1 You could say the same of any non-governmental organization. To whom does one complain? OK, I'm being a bit facetious; Hizbullah is not just your everyday NGO providing services to its constituency (though like Hamas, it does a lot of that too). The point is: the fact that Israel supposedly has some democratic checks and balances makes it, if anything, even less excusable that it perpetrates such actions. If it can torture, occupy, commit war crimes, that's a massive failure of democracy. David ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [...] 44234 62 20_Grapes of Wrath/ WSJ16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 05:10:38 -0700604_iso-8859-1 EDITORIAL BOARD Grapes of Wrath Israel hasn't been so united since 1967.

BY BRET STEPHENS Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:01 a.m.

NORTHERN ISRAEL--Ask Moshe Haviv how he's doing, and he responds in one acrid word, unsuited for a family newspaper. Mr. Haviv, 54, is the CEO of the Dalton winery in the hilly Northern Galilee, about two miles from the Lebanese border as the crow flies. Most days, as many as 600 customers arrive in his tasting room and stock up on cases of Dalton's Chardonnays, Fume Blancs and Cabernet Sauvignons. But when I paid a midday visit Thursday, there [...] 44297 278 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:56:43 -0700613_iso-8859-1 Dear David

Hi. It's me, Steve. Again.

Today's news: Israel's attack on the entire communications network of northern Lebanon, pinpointing three giant radio towers and other communications equipment resulted in the loss of one network employee. At this stage, it is not lost on most people the extraordinary lengths the people of Isrel go through to avoid loss of civilian, innocent life. It is not lost on most people. If an when the time comes that the lives of Israeli citizens become imperiled on a larger scale, most people will understand that Israel has been forced to go to a [...] 44576 177 36_Re: Naomi Shemer Song- Kad ha Kemach22_Shirley Agronin Manzur21_yelrihs55@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:13:44 +0200530_iso-8859-1 Hello all. This being my first posting, I'm supposed to tell you who I am, right?

Okay, but first, Sue, a link to lyrics of all Naomi Shemer songs, which I found for you with the tv on in the background and deciding to take a little break from the news of more and more and more katyushas falling in the north, and more soldiers falling in battle... The link is: http://www.shiron.net/homepage.aspx?id=738&name=????_???&type=1&tab=0 There are 180 some odd songs listed, with lyrics. In Hebrew, of course... [...] 44754 123 28_Re: HELP WITH A PHONE NUMBER22_Shirley Agronin Manzur21_yelrihs55@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:27:27 +0200486_iso-8859-1 try http://www.144.bezek.com/ top left, you can hit 'english'. but bear in mind that they're not real good at updating the site :-) shirley



----- Original Message ----- From: Emabear@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 3:30 AM Subject: HELP WITH A PHONE NUMBER



Can someone out there give me the web address for Bezeq in English or look up a number for me and email me off list: emabear@aol.com? Thanks a buch, Ellen [...] 44878 61 7_seattle12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:42:31 +0300298_windows-1255 Folks - are any of you from Seattle or have a close relative, friend etc. there? A close cousin of my husband (from Israel) needs emergency surgery there (is already set up for housing) and wants a 'backup number' of a person who can provide info etc. if necessary. Thanks Jessie [...] 44940 18 49_Re: Daniel Gordis - The First War, All Over Again11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:46:34 -0600422_us-ascii "The Jewish People has nowhere else to go." Huh???

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 44959 78 49_Re: Daniel Gordis - The First War, All Over Again0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:16:16 EDT638_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/22/2006 3:47:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psafier@ELIXA.COM writes:

"The Jewish People has nowhere else to go." Huh???

Phil

They will all come to New Mexico. No problem right. I am sure you are ready to help evacuate 6 million Jews from Israel.











------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 45038 100 49_Re: Daniel Gordis - The First War, All Over Again11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:52:10 -0600544_us-ascii Dearest Sam,

Shabat Shalom.

I have long thought that Utah makes more sense for a Jewish state. After all, the Mormons believe in their Lost Tribe origins. Why do you think they named that amazing place Zion? And then the relocated Israelis can visit Fanny Brice Canyon just up the road.

When Gordis says "The Jewish People has nowhere else to go," what does that mean? I mean... really. Does that mean that we, The Jewish People(tm) should not feel safe here or anywhere outside The Land of Our Four Fathers? [...] 45139 78 49_Re: Daniel Gordis - The First War, All Over Again11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:08:13 -0400605_ISO-8859-1 Dear Phil--

Move Israel to Utah--what an insight! There are amazing marketing synergies here, esp in apparel--- Will the Haredi women start looking like little house on the prairie or will the Mormon women start looking like little shtetl on the prairie? Their basic rules are the same. Men too--white shirts, black coats for all. It's just a question of blond crewcuts vs dark peyis, beards and hats. The "chief rabbi" of Utah is Tracee Rosen, a lesbian. Not only won't the orthodox recognize her when they get there, the Mormon elders already refuse to meet with her. Judy Gelman [...] 45218 242 36_Re: Naomi Shemer Song- Kad ha Kemach12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:21:05 -0700565_iso-8859-1 Thank you Shirley- I had arleady gone to the Steimatzky's around the corner from me here in Encino CA and bought an "Otzar" shirei Nomi Shemer..and found it there....thanks anyway- that is a nice site...sue....

--- Shirley Agronin Manzur wrote:

> Hello all. > This being my first posting, I'm supposed to tell > you who I am, right? > > Okay, but first, Sue, a link to lyrics of all Naomi > Shemer songs, which I > found for you with the tv on in the background and > deciding to take a little > break from the [...] 45461 94 49_Re: Daniel Gordis - The First War, All Over Again0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:26:51 -0700314_utf-8 Phil,

As a history major I am compelled to point out that the Jews were in spain for a thousand years and they too achieved great wealth and security only to see it all end. While I don't think that could happen in America it is also true that we have only been here 350 years so time will tell. [...] 45556 45 20_Phil - Welcome Home!0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 20:09:25 EDT352_US-ASCII Actually, I think Phil wants to send them back where they came from -- you know, Iran, Yemen, Syria, Poland, Russia -- all the enlightened countries that gave Jews a box of chocolates and flowers when they sent them on their way to Israel. I'm sure they'll all welcome the returning Jews with open arms and give them a real warm welcome. [...] 45602 45 31_JAJAH - web-activated telephony16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 17:40:24 -0700350_iso-8859-1 Israel is in zone 2; USA and Canada are zone 1; UK and Netherlands are zone 2. Landline to landline calls are free between registered users in both zones; mobile phones are included for zone1. This is getting a lot of good publicity . Check it out. Worth looking into. And if you think it's worth it, sharing... http://www.jajah.com/ [...] 45648 76 24_Re: Phil - Welcome Home!11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:43:05 -0600374_us-ascii Whoa JLCAA@AOL.COM!

Thanks for trying to read my mind, but I didn't mean that at all. I merely suggested moving to Utah.

Iran, Yemen, Syria, Poland, and Russia didn't "send them on their way" and they certainly didn't tell them to move to a bad neighborhood, did they? Sheesh!

Next year in Salt Lake City (right next to The New Dead Sea). [...] 45725 83 24_Re: Phil - Welcome Home!0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:03:11 EDT444_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/22/2006 8:44:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psafier@ELIXA.COM writes:



Iran, Yemen, Syria, Poland, and Russia didn't "send them on their way" and they certainly didn't tell them to move to a bad neighborhood, did they? Sheesh!

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Nothing worse than a liar. Almost nothing. A stupid liar is worse. Shame on you Phil. I'd love to send you packing to Yemen. [...] 45809 148 49_Re: Daniel Gordis - The First War, All Over Again0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:06:44 EDT513_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/22/2006 6:53:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, psafier@ELIXA.COM writes:



I have long thought that Utah makes more sense for a Jewish state. After all, the Mormons believe in their Lost Tribe origins. Why do you think they named that amazing place Zion? And then the relocated Israelis can visit Fanny Brice Canyon just up the road. You this is actually Phil's idea of being funny. He actually thinks he is being funny. Phil people say that in person you are funny. [...] 45958 38 77_Cable companies and The Israel Channel- and PS to Rozzie-and tech question...12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:38:45 -0700390_iso-8859-1 I am not sure this is possible, but fo rthose of you that have cable and not satellite- can you call and pressure them to carry the ISrael Channel? I will do some research on Monday to see if The Israel Channel has an "exclusive" contract with the Dish network; if not- we should pressure cable companies to carry it ( they basically "download" from satellite anyway)...Sue [...] 45997 41 80_Re: Cable companies and The Israel Channel- and PS to Rozzie-and tech questio...11_Sylvia Lask14_SMLBOV@AOL.COM29_Sat, 22 Jul 2006 22:35:41 EDT464_US-ASCII Great idea to try and get the Israeli channel on cable. I will call my cable company. Sylvia

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 46039 76 81_Re: Cable companies and The Israel Channel- and PS to Rozzie-and tech question...16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 03:28:01 -0700568_iso-8859-1 I will write to the cable company. I think it is a MAC thing for sure. I have other friends who cannot seem to access the site.

Sue Liberman wrote: I am not sure this is possible, but fo rthose of you that have cable and not satellite- can you call and pressure them to carry the ISrael Channel? I will do some research on Monday to see if The Israel Channel has an "exclusive" contract with the Dish network; if not- we should pressure cable companies to carry it ( they basically "download" from satellite anyway)...Sue [...] 46116 92 30_The First War - All Over Again16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 07:53:13 -0400595_us-ascii Actually, I was thinking that we might reconsider the Uganda offer that Herzl so blithely rejected.

Alternatively, of course, we could resurrect the Jewish Labor Bund and the notion of diaspora nationalism. Didja know that the biggest aggregate of Bundists now lives in Israel?

> In a message dated 07/22/2006 3:47:57 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > psafier@ELIXA.COM writes: > > "The Jewish People has nowhere else to go." Huh??? > > > Phil > > They will all come to New Mexico. No problem right. I am sure you are > ready to help evacuate 6 million Jews from Israel. [...] 46209 163 34_Re: The First War - All Over Again8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 15:46:01 +0200467_us-ascii Not such a hot idea, Elihu. Uganda has mosquitoes in unbelievable numbers. And crocodiles.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 1:53 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: The First War - All Over Again



Actually, I was thinking that we might reconsider the Uganda offer that Herzl so blithely rejected. [...] 46373 46 28_Re: HELP WITH A PHONE NUMBER0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 09:07:51 EDT530_US-ASCII Thank you for your response. I had tried that but still no go. When I get home I'll update my computer with hebrew font. It's about time anyway - only laziness stopped me before! I got the numbers from friends. Thank you.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 46420 253 24_Re: Phil - Welcome Home!11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:17:01 -0400354_iso-8859-1 Not PC, but couldn't resist:

Salt Lake City by Bob Weir (and perhaps Barlow?)

It was a paradise for lizards When young Brigham saw it first. Said "I seen some nasty deserts, Lord, But this one here's the worst."

The Lord told down to Brigham Said I got a great idea. I want a mighty city, And I think I want it here. [...] 46674 30 23_With what may one light12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:38:24 -0400 46705 264 27_Re: With what may one light13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 15:03:22 -0400640_iso-8859-1 Amnon,

Did you learn anything by chance (or remember hearing about it, as I do), also regarding struggles in Jewish communities in the East (Iraq-Babylon) between the 8th and 10th centuries that centered around the costume of lighting a candle before Shabbat, or for Shabbat (to provide light during Shabbat)? These struggles were connected then to the re-emergence of Karaites, led by Annan ben David. Of course, Annan is considered the so-called "founder" of Karaism then, but I actually happen to think that this stream of scripture inspired thinking in Jewish history has its roots much earlier, in second Temple [...] 46970 81 42_Yair Lapid/ YNET/ Why they love to hate us16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:28:37 -0700959_iso-8859-1 Why they love to hate us

Some 1,500 years of anti-Semitism have taught us that there is something about us that annoys the world

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; case [...] 47052 60 18_Whom one may light11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:44:11 -0600442_iso-8859-1 More amazing thinking from one of our leading Jewish minds. Makes one feel proud as punch.

Phil



Alan Dershowitz in L.A. Times: Not all civilian deaths are equally tragic 07/22/2006 @ 7:21 pm Filed by RAW STORY

In today's Los Angeles Times, Harvard University Professor Alan Dershowitz has written a column in which he argues that the value of some civilian wartime casualties is less than others. [...] 47113 166 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 12:51:18 -0700319_iso-8859-1 I don't know where you live, David, but what you say below applies as much to the US as to Israel. The fact that the US government tortures, occupies, and commits war crimes could indicate a massive failure of democracy here. On the other hand, maybe that's what the majority of Americans want. -Sharon [...] 47280 95 42_No Katyushas at Rabin Square/ Yoram Kaniuk16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:28:38 -07001036_iso-8859-1 No Katyushas at Rabin Square

Jews not launching evil or occupation from F-16s in Lebanon Yoram Kaniuk

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; case 'yaan' : urlStr = '/yaan/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts [...] 47376 4379 48_Fw: Pictures 'Peaceful' Hezbollah Demonstrations11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 14:41:57 -0700648_iso-8859-1

I hope this gets through without a need to open the attachment.

Steve





> These pictures were provided by Joan Daniels from a NY Hezbollah > demonstration. > > Please note the words used on the signs. "All of Israel is Occupied > Territory" shows their continued position that Israel's very existence is > unacceptable and therefore we have noone with whom to negotiate. "G'd will > send the mushroom cloud from the sky on Israel" comes to us from the > 'Islamic Thinkers Society' whose website (www.islamicthinkers.com) it > states > "Our struggle is always intellectual & political non-violent [...] 51756 478 65_Fw: Notes from Zachary Taylor a soldier in the Nachal Haredi Unit11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:09:22 -0700631_iso-8859-1

Sending on to you

Steve







Notes from Zachary Taylor a soldier in the Nachal Haredi Unit, sent to me by his mother. July 16, 2006

People jump to conclusions about the Israeli leadership and heir strategies concerning Gaza and Lebanon. First of all, do not believe anything you read in a foreign newspaper or even half of the Israeli ones about this current situation. For example, just a few months ago an Arab Family in Gaza was killed on a beach. The Palestinians said the Israelis did the killing, as did international media. After research it was shown that in [...] 52235 330 34_Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 23 Jul 2006 23:15:06 -0700654_iso-8859-1 >>> >>>In this picture taken in Beirut in 2000, Kofi Annan is thanking >>>Nasrallah, >>>head of the terror group Hezbollah for Maintaining law and order in the >>>south of Lebanon. >>> >>>So, in 2000 Kofi Annan acknowledged that the terror group Hezbollah was >>>responsible for Maintaining law and order in southern Lebanon, but it is >>>now ISRAEL which is undermining the country's sovereignty? >>> >>>Source: Al-Ahram, Weekly On-line, Issue 487, 22-18 June 2000 >>> >>>Dear friends, >>> >>>Here is yet another of many examples of harmful and dangerous UN >>>political >>>activities. >>> >>>Your Truth Provider, >>>Yuval. >>> >>> >> > [...] 52566 403 34_Hezbollah's Iranian War in Lebanon8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:24:51 +0200639_us-ascii Walid Phares: Hezbollah's Iranian War in Lebanon

[Dr Walid Phares is a Senior Fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, a visiting Fellow with the Foundation for European Democracy, the author of Future Jihad (English) and of books on Lebanon and Iran.]

When Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, secretary general of Hezbollah held his press conference to declare his new victory over his enemy, Israel, he was triggering -probably without knowing- a new era in the history of Lebanon and the region. "We will continue in faithfulness to our line," he declared, in legitimizing his cross border attack on an [...] 52970 43 34_Projects assisting with the Matzav11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:06:12 -0400501_ISO-8859-1 Dear Friends,

As you know by now, I am raising money through Ameinu to assist Israelis in this crisis.

If any of you are considering giving but would feel more comfortable if you saw the for various projects to help Israelis in the North, I have some information on 3 projects:

Meals for Carmiel families now housed in Herzliya Hotel lodging in Ashkelon for families from Sefed and Nahariya Daytrips for Haifa teens to amusements in the south and center of Israel [...] 53014 85 25_notes from Zachary Taylor0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 09:08:00 EDT403_US-ASCII



Dear Steve,

Thanks once again for forwarding another enlightening piece which breaks it all down so incisively. I knew there must be at least one good reason but I just couldn't quite put my finger on it....till now. Am particularly impressed with knowing this level of analysis...so well articulated emanates from a 'Nachal Haredi Unit'. Teach those children well. [...] 53100 67 38_Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:07:36 +0200469_us-ascii Judy, how about Jack Daniels for the people who stayed behind?

Just kidding,

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judy Gelman Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 3:06 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Projects assisting with the Matzav



Dear Friends,

As you know by now, I am raising money through Ameinu to assist Israelis in this crisis. [...] 53168 81 38_Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 07:20:56 -0700521_iso-8859-1 Judy- if you could email me all of them, I will print them in the paper in a box--we go to press August 4th so the sooner, the better- Sue

--- Judy Gelman wrote:

> Dear Friends, > > As you know by now, I am raising money through > Ameinu to assist Israelis > in this crisis. > > If any of you are considering giving but would feel > more comfortable if > you saw the for various projects to help Israelis in > the North, I have > some information on 3 projects: > > Meals [...] 53250 110 38_Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:41:25 -0400329_ISO-8859-1 I don't feel comfortable just putting the budget details in the paper, I'd need to check with all the organizations involved. I will try to come up with something that you could use instead. I was offering the details to individual donors who might want to see what $100 or $1000 or $10000 can do right now. Judy [...] 53361 72 38_Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 10:55:01 -0400292_us-ascii Judy, The opening lines in Bialik's Techezakna (which we used to sing at camp kvutza) goes soemthing like this. Strengthen the hands of all our brothers in thier efforts to rebuild our homeland ... Come as one to help our people. Take a big spoonful of thanks for your efforts. [...] 53434 155 38_Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:26:27 -0700572_iso-8859-1 I wasn't talking about budget details, but about listing in the paper addresses, and what they are for and how people can donate...We have a circulation of over 106,000....s

--- Judy Gelman wrote:

> I don't feel comfortable just putting the budget > details in the paper, > I'd need to check with all the organizations > involved. I will try to > come up with something that you could use instead. I > was offering the > details to individual donors who might want to see > what $100 or $1000 or > $10000 can do right now. [...] 53590 154 42_PS- Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 08:28:03 -0700549_iso-8859-1 We usally get a list from the federations and JNF, and the Agency- but this is more local, and to me is just as important as donating to the federations..s

--- Judy Gelman wrote:

> I don't feel comfortable just putting the budget > details in the paper, > I'd need to check with all the organizations > involved. I will try to > come up with something that you could use instead. I > was offering the > details to individual donors who might want to see > what $100 or $1000 or > $10000 can do right [...] 53745 271 38_Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:00:05 -0400369_ISO-8859-1 Dear Sue,

Here are some details that you might be able to use:

Municipality of Haifa is 150 teens a day out of Haifa and to amusements in the south, at a cost of about $3200 a day.

Municipality of Carmiel has relocated families( 77 people in all) into vacation bungalows in Herzliya and is spending about $1000 a day on food alone. [...] 54017 48 38_Re: Projects assisting with the Matzav13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:09:26 EDT513_US-ASCII Thank you, Judy.

Another channel for a different kind of donation direct to soldiers on the front is pizzaidf.com

Steven & Beth

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 54066 79 38_Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 12:17:22 -0700673_iso-8859-1 I would be extremely wary of anyone who signed their message "Your Truth Provider." In my experience, those who claim to know "the truth" seldom do. -Sharon

Steve Klein wrote: >>> >>>In this picture taken in Beirut in 2000, Kofi Annan is thanking >>>Nasrallah, >>>head of the terror group Hezbollah for Maintaining law and order in the >>>south of Lebanon. >>> >>>So, in 2000 Kofi Annan acknowledged that the terror group Hezbollah was >>>responsible for Maintaining law and order in southern Lebanon, but it is >>>now ISRAEL which is undermining the country's sovereignty? >>> >>>Source: Al-Ahram, Weekly On-line, Issue [...] 54146 21 20_Shabbat and Karaites12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:41:25 -0400 54168 122 51_The Sampson Option Re: "DOOD KATYUSHAZ R COMIN 2 U"11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:26:28 -0600474_iso-8859-1 Thanks Jon. interesting factoid that seems minor but says a lot about the situation. I'll bet those services would sell here.

Has anyone here read The Sampson Option? I haven't checked Snopes, but some speculate that Israel has nukes aimed at a number of high profile targets, including many in Europe, etc. that would launch if Israel suffers a crippling blow or anticipates same. It follows that Israel uses this M.A.D. strategery as its hole card. [...] 54291 215 55_Re: The Sampson Option Re: "DOOD KATYUSHAZ R COMIN 2 U"13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:09:13 -0400641_iso-8859-1 Phil,

Very interesting material, in my view. I don't know much about the whole subject, but there are number of points you raise that got me really curious. The main question is, of course, regarding the following assertion:

"Israel's ability to use nukes tactically and surgically..."

I have been hearing a low intensity buzz for the past two years at least about the US's intentions of deploying or at least testing such capabilities. It stands to reason that the US's capabilities of testing or using this type of military "technology" would be much more advanced than Israel's own capabilities. What [...] 54507 31 38_Re: Hezbollah's Iranian War in Lebanon13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:21:01 -0400357_iso-8859-1 This one was indeed very enlightening. Long and difficult, but also unusually deep and good. I strongly recommend it to whomever has the time, energy, and inclination. Thanks, Jon. ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Baum" Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Hezbollah's Iranian War in Lebanon [...] 54539 212 38_Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:58:49 -0700416_iso-8859-1 Sharon

When did I write this stuff?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 12:17 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?



I would be extremely wary of anyone who signed their message "Your Truth Provider." In my experience, those who claim to know "the truth" seldom do. -Sharon [...] 54752 158 29_Re: notes from Zachary Taylor11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 24 Jul 2006 20:04:30 -0700361_iso-8859-1 Marc

I sent the article along in its entirety. I liked the general tenor of the piece. I don't at all agree with the sentence you extracated. It is just plain wrong.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Mmxmm@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 6:08 AM Subject: notes from Zachary Taylor [...] 54911 191 34_Re: Meretz statement on escalation15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 01:56:34 -0700475_iso-8859-1 I live in California, and you're absolutely right. It's a most discouraging facet of U.S. as well as Israeli society. Here I blame mostly the docile (or worse) mass media and the horribly corrupt political system -- indeed symptoms as well as causes of the massive failure of democracy. In Israel, there is more real choice in politics and a somewhat more robust press. Yet people are still cowed by fear- and hate-mongering. I wish I had good answers. David [...] 55103 57 15_Proud to report14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:56:07 +0200407_windows-1255 Very proud to report the ongoing visit of a group of Habonim-Dror youth from the UK. Urim is hosting this week a group from the UK. We hosted 3 of the group for dinner yesterday. They arrived in Israel the day the war started. I don't know their entire itinerary, but they are spending most of this week here in Urim, spending most of their time with our kids and getting along very well. [...] 55161 1056 39_Eloquent Piece from Former Mazkir Tnuah0_13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:00:04 -0400593_utf-8 Dear Chevreh,

In Israel for 3 weeks, and saddened that I cannot go up to Gesher Haziv for Shabbat, I was extremely moved to read the following eloquent piece from Aaron Sharif (nee Shoirif) - former Mazkir Tnuah and longtime member of Gesher Haziv.

Aaron does not subscribe to Habonet, and he gave permission for me to reprint the piece with the request that people either reply to the list PLUS TO AARON PERSONALLY or just reply to him personally. His email address is as_is@netvision.net.il (please put an underscore in between the "as" and the "is" in his address) [...] 56218 361 53_[QUAR] Washington Post - Richard Cohen: It's Survival16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 10:40:05 -0400635_ISO-8859-1 washingtonpost.com



. . . No, It's Survival By Richard Cohen

Tuesday, July 25, 2006; A15

If by chance you have the search engine LexisNexis and you punch in the words "Israel" and "disproportionate," you run the risk of blowing up your computer or darkening your entire neighborhood. Just limiting the search to newspapers and magazines of the past week will turn up "more than 1,000 documents." Israel may or may not be the land of milk and honey, but it certainly seems to be the land of disproportionate military response -- and a good thing, too. [...] 56580 109 38_Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 08:46:33 -0700379_iso-8859-1 Y'know, Steve, it's one thing to post a request for information that a simple Google search would find (I don't remember at the moment what it was that you asked Habonetters to research for you), but you top yourself in asking the question below. Surely you are familiar with the Habonet archives and have the computer literacy to be able to search them. -Sharon [...] 56690 71 38_Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:09:55 -0400400_ISO-8859-1 No archival search or computer literacy required, just basic English literacy.

Steve - the claim to being a "Truth Provider" was in the message you sent that started this particular thread, to which Sharon responded, and is still visible in the tail of this message. There was no assertion that you wrote the words, just an admonition to be wary of those who make such claims. [...] 56762 561 54_[QUAR] Washington Post - Menachem Kellner: Haifa Diary16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:36:20 -0400430_ISO-8859-1 washingtonpost.com

Haifa Diary: The Postmodern War

Sunday, July 23, 2006; B05

Menachem Kellner, a native of Albany, N.Y., teaches medieval Jewish philosophy at the University of Haifa. He lives there with his wife, Jolene, and their 31-year-old daughter, Rivka, in an apartment not far from the sea. Their son, Avinoam, is a social worker in Jerusalem. [...] 57324 64 19_Re: habonet posting13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:10:51 -0400311_iso-8859-1 Dear Heidi,

I'm sorry you're unable to post on Habonet. Is it something I can help with? I am the same Yuval from Gezer who sold you our bathroom medicine cabinet with three door tinted glass mirrors before we left Gezer in July of 1986. Do you still have it by chance?... I'd guess not. [...] 57389 64 19_Any CAJE attendees?15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:29:52 -0400333_iso-8859-1 Is there anyone going to Durham N.C. for CAJE (the Conference of American Jewish Educators) in 2 weeks? I will be there, and I know that Aliya will too, but if there are others too then I thought we could try to meet up at some point. It's a huge conference and unless we know in advance its not easy to cross paths. [...] 57454 378 22_Re: The Sampson Option11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 11:39:21 -0600344_iso-8859-1 Hi Yuval,

While my initial post on this topic referred to Israel's "nucular" arsenal, I don't have any inside info on US plans to use nukes even though I can drive to Los Alamos in an hour or so. Apparently the good folks there plan on producing more plutonium pits, probably just for the hell of it, not for weaponry ;) [...] 57833 92 19_Re: habonet posting8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:42:33 +0200558_us-ascii If anyone is really interested in nuclear weapons and policy, I recommend the web site of the Federation of American Scientists:

http://www.fas.org/main/content.jsp?formAction=325&projectId=7

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Yuval Warshai Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 7:11 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: habonet posting



Dear Heidi,

I'm sorry you're unable to post on Habonet. Is it something I can help with? [...] 57926 26 21_Re: civilian refugees14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:48:25 +0200438_ISO-8859-1 Yeah, the world media is certainly harping on the Lebanese refugees, while at the same time calling Israel's northern cities "ghost towns". Does no one wonder where those hundreds of thousands people went to? Not CNN or Foxnews or BBC or Skynews (the foreign news channels I watch). Notch up another win for our enemies in the global media war. For some reason, Israel's government has not learned the power of the press. [...] 57953 23 22_Re: The Sampson Option11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:21:38 -0600456_us-ascii Phil,

At least spell Samson right, will ya? Sheesh!

Best regards, Phil

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 57977 228 17_The Samson Option11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:22:52 -0600365_iso-8859-1 WSWS : News & Analysis : Middle East Israel admits stockpiling nuclear weapons By Jean Shaoul 12 February 2000

At the beginning of February, the Israeli Knesset (parliament) held the first public discussion on the country's nuclear arms programme for nearly 40 years. It was greeted with deafening silence by the international establishment. [...] 58206 185 21_Re: The Samson Option0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:32:56 -0400535_us-ascii





-----Original Message----- From: psafier@ELIXA.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 2:22 PM Subject: The Samson Option



WSWS : News & Analysis : Middle East Israel admits stockpiling nuclear weapons By Jean Shaoul 12 February 2000

At the beginning of February, the Israeli Knesset (parliament) held the first public discussion on the country's nuclear arms programme for nearly 40 years. It was greeted with deafening silence by the international establishment. [...] 58392 254 30_Excellen article by Ben Stein.13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:54:47 -0400414_WINDOWS-1252 *'DISPROPORTIONATE'? I DON'T THINK SO*

* *

*By Ben Stein*

* *

So, now I see that some commentators are saying that Israel's bombing of Lebanese Hezbollah strong points and neighborhoods is "disproportionate." The Israeli campaign, so this story goes, is bullying and terrorizing the Lebanese populace, and this is (so the argument goes) typical Israeli thug behavior. [...] 58647 29 8_punditry12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:13:55 -0400 58677 42 21_Re: civilian refugees11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:43:24 -0400580_ISO-8859-1 Any of you Israelis want to write about the "Ghost Town" phenomena for Ameinu? We need so Hasbara on this! Judy

Holtzer Family wrote:

> Yeah, the world media is certainly harping on the Lebanese refugees, > while at the same time calling Israel's northern cities "ghost > towns". Does no one wonder where those hundreds of thousands people > went to? Not CNN or Foxnews or BBC or Skynews (the foreign news > channels I watch). Notch up another win for our enemies in the global > media war. For some reason, Israel's government has not learned the > [...] 58720 47 33_The Middle East Buddy List/ Slate16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:56:28 -0700718_iso-8859-1 http://www.slate.com/id/2146230/nav/tap1

The Middle East Buddy List Does Hezbollah get along with Egypt? What about Hamas and Iran? By Christopher Beam and Noam Rudnick Posted Friday, July 21, 2006, at 5:04 PM ET Last month, Hamas militants tunneled into Israel and kidnapped an Israeli soldier. Israel immediately invaded Gaza. Hamas began lobbing rockets into Israel. The Lebanese group Hezbollah kidnapped two more Israelis near the Lebanon-Israel border. Israel responded by carrying out airstrikes against Lebanon. Egypt and Saudi Arabia condemned Hezbollah for instigating the violence. Syria, Iran, and Lebanon called Israel's retaliation an excessive use of force. Confused? We are too. [...] 58768 62 21_Re: civilian refugees12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:01:43 -0700567_iso-8859-1 Makes you nostalgic for the days when the Jews controlled the media. -Sharon

Holtzer Family wrote: Yeah, the world media is certainly harping on the Lebanese refugees, while at the same time calling Israel's northern cities "ghost towns". Does no one wonder where those hundreds of thousands people went to? Not CNN or Foxnews or BBC or Skynews (the foreign news channels I watch). Notch up another win for our enemies in the global media war. For some reason, Israel's government has not learned the power of the press. [...] 58831 48 19_Re: habonet posting12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 14:16:38 -0700675_iso-8859-1 Yuval Warshai wrote: ...My gut feeling again tells me that they already know nukes can't really wreak the world-wide havoc and destruction that was depicted in the very graphic (albeit black and white) cold war propaganda movies. All that is left to do is to test in real life conditions these so-called surgical tactical uses of limited, under-control nuclear technology.... OK, so the idea of accidentally setting off a chain reaction in the atmosphere by detonating a nuclear weapon has pretty much been nixed. But "under-control nuclear technology"? Reminds me of those other oxymorons "military intelligence" and "military music." [...] 58880 24 35_Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:34:00 -0600420_us-ascii Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs, Littlest Victims Suffer http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072506A.shtml Jawad Najem, a surgeon at the hospital, said patients admitted Sunday had burns from phosphorous incendiary weapons used by Israel. The Geneva Conventions ban using white phosphorus as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas. [...] 58905 66 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 15:43:06 -0700543_iso-8859-1 I am a little taken aback at where you feel we are "boring" when posting articles which may or may not be of interest to us. NOW who is being judgemental? Moshe Sheskin just posted an interesting one by Ben Stein; Rozzie posted more than a few which I was glad to receive, as well as those posted by Elihu; and many times, I appreciate and learn from those posted by Steve because wheter or not I agree or disagree, they are "svelte" with opinions and information I find interesting, even if I am silent about it. And what may [...] 58972 61 60_Save the Fourth Amendment -- oppose the Cheney-Specter bill!11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 16:45:05 -0600642_us-ascii Senator Specter's bill to "fix" the President's domestic eavesdropping program is a sellout of our Constitution. Please join me and the national Bill of Rights Defense network in calling on Congress for real protection of our Fourth Amendment's protection from unreasonable searches and seizures. Congress doesn't need to pass new legislation--it must enforce the laws on the books. This bill may come up quickly for a vote in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The bill, and not our Fourth Amendment, should die in committee.I have contacted my Senators and urge you to do the same! Read more at the Bill of [...] 59034 143 64_Re: Save the Fourth Amendment -- oppose the Cheney-Specter bill!11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:59:55 -0400678_iso-8859-1 While you're at it, tell your Senators that we need democracy in the nation's capitol. Then I'll have Senators I can fax too.

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Safier To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 6:45 PM Subject: Save the Fourth Amendment -- oppose the Cheney-Specter bill!



Senator Specter's bill to "fix" the President's domestic eavesdropping program is a sellout of our Constitution. Please join me and the national Bill of Rights Defense network in calling on Congress for real protection of our Fourth Amendment's protection from unreasonable searches and seizures. Congress doesn't need to pass new [...] 59178 80 19_Re: habonet posting13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:21:26 EDT651_ISO-8859-1

In a message dated 7/25/06 2:18:27 PM, newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM writes:



> But "under-control nuclear technology"? Reminds me of those other > oxymorons "military intelligence" and "military music." > -Sharon > > I think I understand your point, but please don't dis the great John Philip Sousa, the leader of the US Marine Corps Band late 19th and early 20th century, and the composer of probably the greatest marches of all. -) (that's supposed to be the smiley thing), and with Stephen Foster, L M Gottschalk, probably the greatest American composer of the 19th century. BTW, his real name was John Philipso. [...] 59259 3874 18_to the last virgin13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:58:56 EDT581_ISO-8859-1

This started as a short response to the assertion that Hizbollah has "legitimate grievances." And then I just couldn't stop...if you don't like long, delete... > > ******************************** > Is anybody out there worried? > > Seems to me Iran is winning...the Persians are the people who invented > chess...and we are the people who: > > 1. Did not realize we'd have to pacify Iraq if we were going to bring Saddam > Hussein down > > 2. Brought down the ruthless regime sitting on Iran's border and who was > Iran's most threatening enemy > > 3. Did [...] 63134 88 37_Ballots and Bullets /NYTimes Magazine16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:31:03 -0700593_iso-8859-1 The Way We Live Now Ballots and Bullets By NOAH FELDMAN This article will appear in the July 30 issue of The Times Magazine When Hamas and then Hezbollah kidnapped Israeli soldiers a few weeks ago, the Israeli government could have held its fire and avoided a major confrontation in which dozens of Israelis — and many more Palestinians and Lebanese — have died. There might have been a strategic rationale for such a policy, since starving kidnappers of attention may be the best way to deter them. But Israel's leaders could not consider this option: they are responsible to [...] 63223 23 13_Rotting fruit11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:17:26 -0400536_ISO-8859-1 This link is especially for all of us who spent time picking apples, pears, and peaches in kibbutz orchards. . Judy



http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291992854&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 63247 722 39_Fw: SPECIAL REPORT: THE ISRAELI PUZZLE.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:55:51 -0700679_iso-8859-1 special Interesting analysis.

Steve







SPECIAL REPORT: THE ISRAELI PUZZLE. By George Friedman Stratfor, 7/25/07.

The question that is now most pressing is figuring out exactly what Israel is up to. Hezbollah's strategy is fairly clear-cut: Now that the war has started, it cannot maneuver in the open, for fear of Israeli air power; therefore, it is holding its positions, absorbing the airstrikes and engaging Israeli troops as they approach. Hezbollah continues to fire rockets at Israel. The longer it fights and the more resistance it offers, the more of a psychological blow it inflicts on the Israelis and the more [...] 63970 369 44_Fw: CNN Reporter Admits Being Hezbollah Tool11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:59:21 -0700755_Windows-1252 Subscriber Email I remember seeing the piece. It didn't seem that out of place, now that CNN's coverage consists mainly of the suffering in Lebanon all day long.

Steve

























CNN Reporter Admits Being Hezbollah Tool

CNN Reporter Admits Being Hezbollah Tool

While talking about media coverage today, I thought you would be interested in this information. Gee? It was only like 2 years ago when CNN admitted they shaded stories for Saddam to get access to Iraq.... Basically becoming Saddam's Propaganda Network...... So they could gain a "competitive" advantage on Fox by having access to Iraq........ Now a CNN Reporter [...] 64340 331 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:12:20 -0700405_iso-8859-1 Sue

Fuggetaboutit. Take it easy (or at least easier) Do you not remember Amnon was the one giving out grades for last year's writings? (I won't bore you with his choices). He is merely saying it is tedious for him to get through articles of any length, and would now more appreciate a synopsis whenever possible.. Did I get this right? Amnon, please just indicate when this occurs. [...] 64672 50 39_Re: Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:17:22 -0700386_iso-8859-1 Phil

Did you check this out, or is it enough for someone on the other side to make the accusation for you to wrap it up, place a bow on it and send it along?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Safier" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 3:34 PM Subject: Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs [...] 64723 33 12_Re: punditry11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:20:10 -0400493_ISO-8859-1 Amnon writes:



Frankly the indoor game on Haonet of quoting long articles (ever notice that seldom are they written by someone with whom the sender disagrees?) is boring.



Judy replies:



None of us can monitor all the media ourselves and I very much appreciate the articles people are finding and posting. . No one forces anyone else to read them. A person who finds them boring can use the delete key or even go "nomail" for a while. [...] 64757 103 38_Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:44:19 -0700318_iso-8859-1 Dear NOam

Because of the juxtaposition, I felt that an unfair and unfounded association was made. Basic English literacy gave me that. My Basic Human Paranoia only made me alert to it. However, knowing Sharon, I will allow that she did not do it on purpose, as she is consistently well-meaning. [...] 64861 345 38_Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:47:33 -0700353_iso-8859-1 Sharon

That was my point. I had nothing to research, as I never wrote it!

Steve

PS Thanks for the advice. I will surely use it on another occasion, I am sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: Fw: Who Really Undermined Lebanon? [...] 65207 19 12_Re: punditry12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:46:24 -0400 65227 36 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 06:06:58 -0400 65264 34 39_Re: Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:25:03 -0400480_iso-8859-1 This is particularly funny coming from you Steve. Thanks for the laugh!

----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Klein" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:17 AM Subject: Re: Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs



> Phil > > Did you check this out, or is it enough for someone on the other side to > make the accusation for you to wrap it up, place a bow on it and send it > along? > > Steve [...] 65299 58 17_Baruch Dayan Emet9_Mark Seal21_mogzeal@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:06:31 -0400388_Windows-1252 Chaverim:

With great sadness, I email to inform you that my mother-in-law, Paula Bloom (nee Yakira), 79, passed away Tuesday, July 25th at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania after a long bout with lung cancer. She was a social worker, educator and a life-long Labor Zionist. She was known to most of her friends, colleagues and to her family as Pepi. [...] 65358 19 21_Re: Baruch Dayan Emet12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:14:31 -0400 65378 27 76_New Flash: Pot Calls Kettle Black (Was: Israel Drops White Phosphorus Bombs)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:47:51 -0400518_us-ascii Physician, heal thyself.

> Phil > > Did you check this out, or is it enough for someone on the other side to > make the accusation for you to wrap it up, place a bow on it and send it > along? > > Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 65406 409 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 12:53:14 -0600537_us-ascii Oy! I feel such rachmonis for poor Amnon. Be not afraid... he's more to be pitied than censured. Yeah, right.

Guru: Gee You Are You.

Phil



At 06:06 AM 7/26/2006 -0400, you wrote: > "Guru" ? > > > >When I take a bus these days it is owned by the Dan Coop, and the Tel Aviv >area I live in is called Gush Dan. In the early years, when Yitzhak Ben >Zvi was the President of Israel there was a weekly Shabbat bible >discussion held in his and Rahel Yanait Ben Zvi's home. Ben Gurion was >one of the [...] 65816 43 21_Send a hug to the IDF16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 13:57:10 -0700435_iso-8859-1 Send a hug to the IDF

Click below to send a personal message of support and a chocolate bar to an Israeli soldier for free (courtesy of Elite and the Heritage Affinity Services credit card). Please forward this to others, too. http://www.websense-media.co.il/has_200706/default.asp?gid=friend



--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta. [...] 65860 56 25_Re: Send a hug to the IDF12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:26:28 -0700417_iso-8859-1 Thanks for sending this roz- I forwarded it..sue

Rosalind Barland wrote: Send a hug to the IDF

Click below to send a personal message of support and a chocolate bar to an Israeli soldier for free (courtesy of Elite and the Heritage Affinity Services credit card). Please forward this to others, too. http://www.websense-media.co.il/has_200706/default.asp?gid=friend [...] 65917 69 25_Re: Send a hug to the IDF16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:34:06 -0700554_iso-8859-1 Me too, the more the merrier. After today Tzahal needs all the hugs it can get. Rozzie

Sue Liberman wrote: Thanks for sending this roz- I forwarded it..sue

Rosalind Barland wrote: Send a hug to the IDF

Click below to send a personal message of support and a chocolate bar to an Israeli soldier for free (courtesy of Elite and the Heritage Affinity Services credit card). Please forward this to others, too. http://www.websense-media.co.il/has_200706/default.asp?gid=friend [...] 65987 89 61_Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 14:58:33 -0700444_iso-8859-1 Americans and the incurable Mideast By Bradley Burston

N. HOLLYWOOD, CALIF. - Going on three weeks into the second Lebanon war, there's a sense here that the Middle East conflict should be added to the list of the world's incurable diseases: a lingering but ultimately hopeless case, potentially communicable, potentially pandemic, a struggle in which fighting the good fight - however you define it - can yield no good. [...] 66077 158 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:10:41 EDT341_US-ASCII

Phil,

You seem like a smart guy with a good sense of the absurd. But really...enough already regarding your personal sentiments towards Amnon. Do you really need to hang your soiled laundry out on the net line for the neighbors to see? I suggest you express yourself directly and leave the rest of us out of it. [...] 66236 177 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:33:16 -0600619_us-ascii You sound smart too Marc and the suggestion makes sense. Thanks.

enough really large/global soiled laundry to worry about without our petty crap. the world's going up in flames and I spend time giving him a nudge. go know.

does peace really begin with me?

Phil

At 08:10 PM 7/26/2006 -0400, Mmxmm@AOL.COM wrote: >Phil, > >You seem like a smart guy with a good sense of the absurd. But >really...enough already regarding your personal sentiments towards Amnon. >Do you really need to hang your soiled laundry out on the net line for the >neighbors to see? >I suggest you express [...] 66414 64 37_Giyus calls Jews if world to web duty16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 18:44:28 -0700968_iso-8859-1 GIYUS calls Jews of world to web duty

Want to support Israel online? Just download Megaphone from WUJS website and get all needed updates Linda Harel

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} [...] 66479 29 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Wed, 26 Jul 2006 23:48:45 -0400 66509 49 54_US Senate grants Israel $25m for anti-Katyusha missile8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 06:59:01 +0200660_us-ascii US Senate grants Israel $25m for anti-Katyusha missile The first year of development is being jointly funded by the Pentagon and Israel. Amnon Barzilai 23 Jul 06 18:04 The US Senate Committee on Appropriations has approved a $25 million appropriation for developing a missile to intercept short-range ballistic missile and long-range Katyusha rockets. The appropriation for the first year of development was jointly made by the Pentagon and Israel. The program is called short-range ballistic missile defense (SRBM), or mini-Arrow. Raytheon Co. (NYSE:RTN) and Rafael Armament Development Authority Ltd. will jointly build the anti-SRBM missiles. [...] 66559 59 54_US Senate grants Israel $25m for anti-Katyusha missile14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 09:33:42 +0200576_windows-1255 Surprisingly, Israel already has an effective anti-Katyusha system. I saw on TV, I think channel 10, in the early days of the war, a program about a system developed here that uses lasers to counter Katyushas. It was tested and had a perfect record (40 - 0). Only problem was its size and lack of mobility. The system is too large to fit on a truck and very expensive. However, it was reported that 3 or 4 systems could be installed surrounding Gaza (for example) and cover the entire border, even against Kassam rockets. Maybe Reagan wasn't that crazy with [...] 66619 191 54_Habo Shnatties help northern kids become happy campers0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 03:53:36 -0400549_utf-8 Folks:

Last week we posted a notice about the Ameinu Emergency Children's Fund and requested support from those of you in North America. In fact, our colleagues in Australia are partners in this project and here is coverage (below)from the "Australian Jewish News" of one of the camps this is being supported. In addition, funds are going to supply games, books and toys to Jewish and Arab children in shelters and safe rooms in the north. Contributions are still being taken at http://www.ameinu.net/newsalert.php?newsalertid=11. [...] 66811 314 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:19:49 -0400537_us-ascii Rozzie

This is evidence that Amnom's preference that people not post interesting articles may be a little misguided. I am sitting in a hotel in Cleveland ( I work in Cleveland two days a week even though I live in Pittsburgh ) and this little piece on "home" touched me in away that will make my day more interesting. I would have never had the time at 7am to search the web for this. I will not need to do any fact checking on this one. With all due respect to Phil there is nothing about illegal bombs that cannot [...] 67126 47 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:37:00 -0400410_ISO-8859-1 Dear Sam and others,

I suggest we all post to our heart's content.

Although Amnon took offense at my saying this in response to his professing his boredom with us, I will again say that no one forces anyone on habonet to read any article or any comment on any article against his/her will. The delete button works really well if you aren't interested/bored/offended by a posting. [...] 67174 202 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston6_rdbaum23_rdbaum@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:25:35 +0200404_windows-1255 Rosalind, Could you tell us how you found this. I am also a fan of Bradley Burston.

Rezzie Baum (A Habonim parent)

----- Original Message ----- From: Rosalind Barland To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 11:58 PM Subject: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston



Americans and the incurable Mideast By Bradley Burston [...] 67377 359 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:06:42 -0400544_us-ascii Through an odd coincidence of timing, I have just returned from JFK airport and dropping Brad Burston and his family off at the airport for their trip back home to Israel. They have been in the states on a family trip and he actually submitted the column everyone liked so much from my computer. Due to this timing, I was able to share with him all of your lovely comments and he was really touched. As regular readers know, he gets a lot of mud thrown at him through the "talkback" section of Ha'aretz. He sends his regards - he [...] 67737 119 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:22:04 -0700315_iso-8859-1 He writes for Haaretz and whenever I see one of his articles I send it to Habonet. A friend of mine who used to live at Gezer told me he was also there. Rozzie Barland

rdbaum wrote: Rosalind, Could you tell us how you found this. I am also a fan of Bradley Burston. [...] 67857 96 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:24:53 -0700565_iso-8859-1 Thank You Judy, and Thank You Rozzie (with capital T's and Y's!)- I agree with Sam and Judy- the articles I have been priviledged to read and be exposed to have only strengthened many of my feelings aand resolves, and have enriched my life, and often present us with various POV's (points-of-view) to which we would not have been exposed otherwise. I also work full-time and while I do a lot of research in my work, and am exposed to Jewish/Israel news all day long, I rarely get exposed to "cornicopian" amount of articles and points of view I see [...] 67954 228 82_to ken and judy--Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 07:29:02 -0700410_iso-8859-1 Could you have the kids from MBI write something for our paper ( we are a monthly Jewish issues and culture paper with a circulation of 106,000) and send some pictures- I'd like to feature the story of thier helping during this terrible time...You can send me info at my work email which is ( and I think it is ok to post it hee)- sliberman@blazergrp.com- Thanks- sue --- kbob24@AOL.COM wrote: [...] 68183 52 14_Twersky to NYT28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 10:41:20 -0400546_ISO-8859-1 Hey David,

How come they published your letter and never publish mine? More power to ya.

I've seen the 10,000 missles number (actually more are generally reported), but where is the 10,000 terrorists number from? Most reports I read have a much lower figure.

Noam

+++

To the Editor:

In “Israel to Occupy Area of Lebanon as Security Zone” (front page, July 26), you mention that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said she would press Israel to ease border restrictions for Palestinians. [...] 68236 91 18_Re: Twersky to NYT12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:04:05 -0700403_iso-8859-1 How does border security make one safer from missles? Unless you're talking about securing the other (non-Israel) borders of Lebanon or Gaza, border security only keeps people and things from making a land crossing into Israel. I'm not asking this merely for the sake of argument--I do not understand the point. This same issue came up in discussions of the security fence/wall. -Sharon [...] 68328 33 18_Re: Twersky to NYT28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:12:52 -0400497_ISO-8859-1 On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:04:05 -0700, Sharon Gates wrote:

>How does border security make one safer from missles? Unless you're talking about securing the other (non-Israel) borders of Lebanon or Gaza, border security only keeps people and things from making a land crossing into Israel. I'm not asking this merely for the sake of argument--I do not understand the point. This same issue came up in discussions of the security fence/wall. > -Sharon [...] 68362 132 18_Re: Twersky to NYT12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:18:03 -0700599_iso-8859-1 Sharon- why are you on this list? It seems you have negative things to say all the time about israel and the country's need for self -defense. David's letter to the NYT was an answer to explain that every time Israel has eased up on Palestinians entering Israel, there have been more opportunities for terorism inside the country- it isn't just about the missiles...which are part of it....I think you need to sit down with yourself and have a real intense discussion about why you even thinnk you are part of this group....while I defend everyone's right to express him/herself...I [...] 68495 63 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston6_rdbaum23_rdbaum@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:26:15 +0200618_windows-1255 Well said Judy !!! Rezzie Baum

----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" To: Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston



> Dear Sam and others, > > I suggest we all post to our heart's content. > Although Amnon took offense at my saying this in response to his > professing his boredom with us, I will again say that no one forces anyone > on habonet to read any article or any comment on any article against > his/her will. The delete button works really well [...] 68559 44 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:36:56 -0400620_ISO-8859-1 Whoa!

Sue, if you don't like reading posts from anyone on this list, you can use your delete key.

This is a list for habonim alumni. There is no ideological litmus test, nor is there any loyalty oath required.

Noam

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:18:03 -0700, Sue Liberman wrote:

>Sharon- why are you on this list? It seems you have >negative things to say all the time about israel and >the country's need for self -defense. David's letter >to the NYT was an answer to explain that every time >Israel has eased up on Palestinians entering Israel, >there [...] 68604 59 43_A glossary of delusions/ Haaretz/ Aluf Benn16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:44:04 -0700621_iso-8859-1 A glossary of delusions By Aluf Benn

I told you so. After every crisis, 'Lieutenant I knew it,' who warned about it ahead of time, or initiated a diplomatic plan that could have prevented it, surfaces. In the current war, the resident alarmist was Giora Eiland, the former national security adviser. Eiland suggested to both Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert that Israel withdraw from the Shaba Farms, release Lebanese prisoners and refrain from flyovers of Lebanon, in return for the Lebanese Army's deployment along the length of the border. His proposal was rejected. But who can prove that it would [...] 68664 71 18_Re: Twersky to NYT12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:49:28 -0700430_iso-8859-1 So are we talking about Israel securing the borders of another sovereign state? I know that with Gaza the sovereignty question is quite muddy, but Lebanon is a sovereign state. Controlling another country's borders is a mighty slippery slope. Some of us may support the idea for Israel, but how about if the US claims that undocumented workers coming across Mexico's southern border threaten our security? -Sharon [...] 68736 80 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:51:10 -0700417_iso-8859-1 Thanks, Noam. I'm used to people attacking my politics, but questioning my Habonim credentials? Them's fightin' words! -Sharon

Noam Stopak wrote: Whoa!

Sue, if you don't like reading posts from anyone on this list, you can use your delete key.

This is a list for habonim alumni. There is no ideological litmus test, nor is there any loyalty oath required. [...] 68817 81 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:52:01 -0700560_iso-8859-1 OK....I give in....I would like to know, however, Sharon's background in Habonim, if she cares to list it..s

--- Noam Stopak wrote:

> Whoa! > > Sue, if you don't like reading posts from anyone on > this list, you can use > your delete key. > > This is a list for habonim alumni. There is no > ideological litmus test, nor > is there any loyalty oath required. > > Noam > > On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:18:03 -0700, Sue Liberman > wrote: > > >Sharon- why are you on this list? It seems you [...] 68899 35 18_Re: Twersky to NYT28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:02:57 -0400526_ISO-8859-1 On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 08:49:28 -0700, Sharon Gates wrote:

>So are we talking about Israel securing the borders of another sovereign state? I know that with Gaza the sovereignty question is quite muddy, but Lebanon is a sovereign state. Controlling another country's borders is a mighty slippery slope. Some of us may support the idea for Israel, but how about if the US claims that undocumented workers coming across Mexico's southern border threaten our security? > -Sharon > [...] 68935 50 18_Re: Twersky to NYT0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:06:29 EDT465_US-ASCII Sorry Suzie, but your comments are uncalled for. You may disagree with Sharon but questioning her right to be on Habonet reeks of censorship unbecoming. Avi

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 68986 66 16_intro to habonet28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:12:21 -0400586_ISO-8859-1 ------------------------------------------------------ Bruchim Habaim! Welcome to Habonet, the Habonim Dror Virtual Machaneh! ------------------------------------------------------

This list is a meeting place for Habonim Dror alumni and friends. Topics for discussion include: Israel, Zionism, Kibbutz, the North American Jewish community, Habonim Dror, and the location of old friends of the movement.

To the degree that this forum can further the current endeavors of movement alumni through communication with each other, it may also be used for that. [...] 69053 72 30_correction to intro to habonet28_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Noam_Stopak?=21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:26:34 -0400375_ISO-8859-1 My apologies for the half-baked editing job on Brian Cooper's old intro text.

Mark Seal now heads the HDF foundation and his address is mogzeal@earthlink.net. Perhaps he (and Yuval) will come forward with a summary of his HabonimDror background as well.

Noam

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:12:21 -0400, Noam Stopak wrote: [...] 69126 96 47_Re: A glossary of delusions/ Haaretz/ Aluf Benn8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:10:25 +0200629_us-ascii Roz, do you think you could include the URL's of the articles you send? Thanks a lot.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Rosalind Barland Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 5:44 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: A glossary of delusions/ Haaretz/ Aluf Benn





The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies . [...] 69223 128 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:27:09 EDT640_US-ASCII

Hi Amnon,

My pleasure. Am still in N. CA..Oakland/SF to be more precise.Am in the midst of returning to an earlier incarnation as a social worker...on my way to an interview shortly at UCSF. Have been in the music business...managing bands etc for the last 14 yrs or so...lotsa fun but never made enough loot.Will be on the east coast with Wavy Gravy most of Aug. _www.wavygravy.net_ (http://www.wavygravy.net) ....check him out...am his manager. Also with Country Joe MacDonald... gimme an 'F' both of Woodstock fame. Another of my bands...recently resurrected is an 8 piece all women's group called Pele Juju [...] 69352 84 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:33:26 EDT583_US-ASCII

ooops. obviously meant as a private communication.

Hi Amnon,

My pleasure. Am still in N. CA..Oakland/SF to be more precise.Am in the midst of returning to an earlier incarnation as a social worker...on my way to an interview shortly at UCSF. Have been in the music business...managing bands etc for the last 14 yrs or so...lotsa fun but never made enough loot.Will be on the east coast with Wavy Gravy most of Aug. _www.wavygravy.net_ (http://www.wavygravy.net/) ....check him out...am his manager. Also with Country Joe MacDonald... gimme an 'F' [...] 69437 92 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 11:35:52 -0700564_iso-8859-1 I was only asking your background in Habonim since I don't know you or it...Most of the people who are on this list- when they are new - introduce themselves- I must have missed it when you came on the list...(I have been reading things here since 1997 when Abba Caspi told me about it and I remember because it was when my mother passed away)..I was only asking a question, not interrogating like the FBI! You don't have to reply, or feel defensive.....But I won't apologize for my stating that I feel you consistently find negative things to say [...] 69530 28 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:02:07 -0400 69559 67 29_Re: punditry: The Guru Speaks16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:07:59 -0700569_ISO-8859-1 Hey Marc- good luck on the job interview- Linda On Thursday, July 27, 2006, at 11:27 AM, Mmxmm@AOL.COM wrote:

> Hi Amnon, > > My pleasure. Am still in N. CA..Oakland/SF to be more precise.Am in > the midst of returning to an earlier incarnation as a social > worker...on my way to an interview shortly at UCSF. Have been in the > music business...managing bands etc for the last 14 yrs or so...lotsa > fun but never made enough loot.Will be on the east coast with Wavy > Gravy most of Aug. www.wavygravy.net ....check him out...am his > manager. [...] 69627 52 21_Statistics from ARMDI12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:14:06 -0700477_iso-8859-1 I am forwarding this from Marian Rosenfeld who sent it to me- Funny that most of the media is forgetting to mention these and seem to focus on the Lebanese tragedy of it all...







MDA STATISTICS JULY 12 - 24, 2006 Hizbollah rockets hit northern Israel - 2,200 Israelis in bomb shelters - 1,000,000 MDA ambulances deployed in north - 750 Number wounded, treated by MDA - 823 Israeli civilians killed - 17 Wounded today (July 24) - 49 [...] 69680 219 17_Fwd: FW: New scam12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:18:13 -0700532_iso-8859-1 The person who sent me this checked it ou ton snopes first- FYI---s

Note: forwarded message attached.

--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen email? Have it all with the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 69900 103 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:30:30 -0700510_iso-8859-1 I posted my Habonim credentials in response to a previous challenge from Sue to my "qualifications" to be on this list. I couldn't find the previous post in a quick scan of the archives, or I'd have pointed you to it. As I recall, the previous challenge was also phrased in terms of "you're way out of the Habonet mainstream and what right do you have to post here, anyway?" Just because you don't know me, Sue, doesn't mean I wasn't in Habonim. The Habonim universe extends farther than Mosh. [...] 70004 118 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:47:09 -0700576_iso-8859-1 I didn't say that you couldn't be in Habonim if I didn't know you!!!!! (Where did you get THAT???) I just wanted to know your Habonim background- if you find this too offensive a question to answer- sorry for that....sounds like you are ashamed you didn't come from Mosh- By the way- I was a madricha at Galil and Red Hook (Na'aleh)- so don't make me out to be a mosh snob....I am not (although I must say that Baltimore Habonim was comprised of an incredible bunch of talented people)....Sorry I don't remember your having posted your Habonim history before- [...] 70123 44 25_a little translation help16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:44:51 -0700507_iso-8859-1 http://www.yehuda.org/lyrics/Chazak.html

What does "Arei Eloheinu: refer to?



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70168 430 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)13_Amy Rubinberg24_amyrubinberg@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:19:49 -0500403_iso-8859-1 On a lighter side of all this, I noticed that one of you mentioned Abba Caspi. He was my Kibbutz Dad when I was on workshop at Gesher Haziv 83-84. Does anyone have his e-mail, or Abba are you reading this? My name is Amy Rubinberg, but it was Amy Demb, I am a Tavornick 77-Madricha in 83, i would love to hear from Abba and to find out how the family is. Any information would be great! [...] 70599 152 29_Re: a little translation help13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:51:57 -0400613_iso-8859-1 Dear Roz,

I didn't like the lyrics much, I don't really know what it is. The 'arei Elokeinu' it mentions (it is an Orthodox site/song, apparently, from the spelling of the Hebrew word for god) refers apparently to "the cities of [our] God."

The reason I decided to chime in on this subject is because they are grammatically correct in their translation/transliteration regarding another Hebrew word, which is more important and germane to this list. The word I am referring to is 'amenu,' or "our people." The correct Hebrew word for "our people" is indeed Amenu, and not Ameinu, in [...] 70752 73 29_Re: a little translation help16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:02:09 -0700547_iso-8859-1 Shalom Yuval, I got the literal translation but wondered if there was anything else here I missed. I know that it is an Orthodox site, but a friend of mine who is singing this in a choir wondered about arei Elokeinu. Thanks, Rozzie

Yuval Warshai wrote: Dear Roz,

I didn't like the lyrics much, I don't really know what it is. The 'arei Elokeinu' it mentions (it is an Orthodox site/song, apparently, from the spelling of the Hebrew word for god) refers apparently to "the cities of [our] God." [...] 70826 81 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:31:57 -0400641_iso-8859-1 Sharon, I was with you before, but now clearly you've given us reason to doubt your Habonim credentials :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)



... The Habonim universe extends farther than Mosh.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 70908 102 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:34:08 -0700388_us-ascii I can't believe I'm actually reading what you are writing, Sue. Your request for Sharon's background is inappropriate, out of place and does not belong on this list. And, if you really care, go to People Finder and see wh at's listed there.

Batel who the moderator decided I had enough of a Habonim background to be on this list and I assume did the same with Sharon [...] 71011 4465 19_Who is Sharon Gates0_22_sambergman@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:49:21 +0000579_us-ascii This message has been processed by Symantec's AntiVirus Technology.

Unknown00000000.data was not scanned for viruses because too many nested levels of files were found.



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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 75477 159 18_Re: Twersky to NYT15_David L. Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:12:55 -0700584_iso-8859-1 I won't enter the personal attack stuff, but if the bloody assault on Lebanon is self-defense, then ... we'll I won't risk putting foot in mouth with a dumb analogy. But if, as the letter implies, Israel needs to control all its neighbors' other borders to defend itself, all is surely lost. There's no end. The new enemy on the other side of that border will just get missiles with even longer range. How is it so hard to understand that there's no military solution to any of these border problems? Every invasion, every occupation, just creates the next generation [...] 75637 61 25_South Lebanon UNIFIL Maps8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:21:23 +0200451_US-ASCII http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/articles/military_photos_2006727154852.a sp

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 75699 46 23_Re: controlling borders11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:16:34 -0400618_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David L. Mandel" To: Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:12 AM Subject: Re: Twersky to NYT



>I won't enter the personal attack stuff, but if the bloody assault on >Lebanon is self-defense, then ... we'll I won't risk putting foot in mouth >with a dumb analogy. But if, as the letter implies, Israel needs to control >all its neighbors' other borders to defend itself, all is surely lost. >There's no end. The new enemy on the other side of that border will just >get missiles with even longer range. How is it so [...] 75746 71 17_Time to Talk /WSJ16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 04:29:18 -0700708_iso-8859-1 http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008711

AT WAR Time to Talk Diplomatic jujitsu could help create a new Middle East.

BY LESLIE H. GELB Friday, July 28, 2006 12:01 a.m.

There is very good reason for Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan to take the highly unusual step of blaming Shiite-led Hezbollah for starting the fighting in Lebanon, and merely condemning Israel's "disproportionate" response. They rightly fear the rising tide of Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and Iran--the forces of radicalism. There is also very good reason for Israel to reverse its longstanding opposition to handing over its security to an international force, and now ask for NATO [...] 75818 64 30_On The Eve of Madness/ NYTimes16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 04:56:12 -0700602_iso-8859-1 http://select.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/opinion/28friedman.html

Op-Ed Columnist On the Eve of Madness By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Damascus, Syria Over Turkish coffee the other morning, I picked up a copy of The Syria Times, the local English-language paper, and my eye immediately went to a small box at the top of the front page. It said, “The Middle East on the Eve of Modernity ... P. 5.” I thought: What a perfect way to describe the Middle East today — going back to some pre-modern era. Alas, The Syria Times was not trying to be ironic. It turned out the headline was the title of [...] 75883 40 21_more on Arei Eloheinu16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 05:03:49 -0700551_iso-8859-1 btw: the "arei Eloheinu" phrase is in the Mi She-beirach for Chayalei Tsahal of the Rav haRashi



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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 75924 279 29_Re: a little translation help0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:41:41 -0400296_us-ascii Yuval - Those of us in the tech world often discuss things that the Internet has "enabled" but I don't think discussing pronounciation is one of them :-). In any case, I would like to continue your conversation about Ameinu to make sure I understand what you are saying. You wrote: [...] 76204 301 23_Re: Who is Sharon Gates12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:11:58 -0700701_iso-8859-1 Thanks Sam- I didn't know or didn't thnk about it- I got "reamed" for asking===let'e let ti go...susie

--- sambergman@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> This message has been processed by Symantec's > AntiVirus Technology. > > Unknown00000000.data was not scanned for viruses > because too many nested levels of files were found. > > > For more information on antivirus tips and > technology, visit > http://ses.symantec.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish [...] 76506 84 34_Re: On The Eve of Madness/ NYTimes0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:47:20 EDT318_US-ASCII Rozzie has yet again posted an important piece. Bravo Rozzie. For those of you who did not take the time to read it because you are busy or maybe because you think the NYT is full of "traitors" here's the gist



The Middle East is mad right now

Primitive passions are driving events. [...] 76591 119 7_the war13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:51:58 EDT354_US-ASCII I heard Patrick Clawson, a director of the Washington Instutute for Near East Policy, and author of "Eternal Iran" as well as scores of articles speak yesterday. He is also a Farsi speaker. He said:

1. Hezbollah is not only a military arm of Iran, but its most powerful surrogate for projecting Iran's military power away from Iran. [...] 76711 54 23_Re: Who is Sharon Gates0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:53:31 EDT604_US-ASCII Sorry if this has been answered already. Sometimes you guys get so silly, Baruch Hashem (orthodox spelling). I can vouch for Sharon Gates because her mom and I shared the same birthday!

Shabbat Shalom (for all streams of Judaism except the Ultra Ordthodox who might say Gut Shabbes, Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 76766 29 12_Enough......12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:06:52 -0700369_iso-8859-1 I apologize for starting this whole Sharon thing---I only wanted to know her Habonim background; I did not mean to imply she didn't belong here, and I was not tryong to act like the CIA....I apologize to Sharon if you felt I was being "inappropriate"-so let's get over this and focus on the important things which are affecting our lives right now..sue [...] 76796 78 11_Re: the war11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:15:11 -0400581_ISO-8859-1 I heard Amb Dennis Ross say just about he same things yesterday at a luncheon where he was mostly talking to diplomats. I follow all this very closely but not closely enough to second guess such experts.

Judy Gelman

Steve Hancoff wrote:

> I heard Patrick Clawson, a director of the Washington Instutute for > Near East Policy, and author of "Eternal Iran" as well as scores of > articles speak yesterday. He is also a Farsi speaker. He said: > > 1. Hezbollah is not only a military arm of Iran, but its most powerful > surrogate for projecting [...] 76875 22 22_To Nasrallah with love11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:18:20 -0400484_ISO-8859-1 New music from Israel. Thought some of you would be interested.

Judy

http://www.nasrallah.co.il/

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 76898 196 11_Re: the war0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:23:12 EDT605_US-ASCII

This makes perfect sense

In a message dated 07/28/2006 11:19:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:

Steve Hancoff wrote:

> I heard Patrick Clawson, a director of the Washington Instutute for > Near East Policy, and author of "Eternal Iran" as well as scores of > articles speak yesterday. He is also a Farsi speaker. He said: > > 1. Hezbollah is not only a military arm of Iran, but its most powerful > surrogate for projecting Iran's military power away from Iran. > > 2. The attack occurred when it did to take Iran's nuclear program off > of [...] 77095 43 26_Re: To Nasrallah with love12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:45:53 -0400694_us-ascii Judy, Thanks. We need this comic relief.

Amnon

----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Gelman Date: Friday, July 28, 2006 11:18 am Subject: To Nasrallah with love

> New music from Israel. Thought some of you would be interested. > > Judy > > http://www.nasrallah.co.il/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...] 77139 141 25_A little translation help12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:55:47 -0400 77281 241 11_Re: the war11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:48:07 -0700438_iso-8859-1 Steve

I am not known to be a member on this list that has opinions that are "well thought-out". Having said that, I will voice a response anyway.

1.) Entering this arrangement shows yet another example of wavering and "flexibility" on an issue that should not be up for grabs, which is Iran's rights to nuclear weaponry. Iran's resolve is reinforced and the perceived strength of the opposers is diminished. [...] 77523 335 34_Re: On The Eve of Madness/ NYTimes11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:04:06 -0700440_iso-8859-1

I fail to see the "genius" of this article. It brings nothing new, and inadvertently show Friedman as either ignorant or prejudiced to one simple factor: That Israel is not fighting a battle of "retaliation" but that of her very survival. To Friedman, it is perceived as part of a senseless game, with Israel as an almost-willing player. That doesn't make Tom a bad person. But it doesn't make him a genius, either. [...] 77859 118 18_Truth Always Hurts16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:05:34 -0700681_iso-8859-1 This is from the Australian Press.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,19933228-5006029,00.html

Truth always hurts Andrew Bolt July 28, 2006 12:00am Article from: Font size: + - Send this article: Print Email

There has been a parade of prejudice, but I will show that terrorists were shooting from the UN posts, counting on Israel to not dare shoot back. THE furious critics agree: Israel is doing this all wrong. Oh, just hear them preach. Yes, Israel is killing too many civilians in its fight against Lebanon's Hezbollah terror group. Israel's bombing is "disproportionate" and careless -- even if not 500 people have died in two [...] 77978 104 4_what11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:12:02 -0700588_iso-8859-1 David wrote:

I won't enter the personal attack stuff, but if the bloody assault on Lebanon is self-defense, then ... we'll I won't risk putting foot in mouth with a dumb analogy. But if, as the letter implies, Israel needs to control all its neighbors' other borders to defend itself, all is surely lost. There's no end. The new enemy on the other side of that border will just get missiles with even longer range. How is it so hard to understand that there's no military solution to any of these border problems? Every invasion, every occupation, just creates the [...] 78083 67 29_Re: A little translation help12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:25:14 -0700512_iso-8859-1

Amnon- you are preaching ot the wrong "choir"= go and tell it all to Hamas and Hezbollah, and Islamic Jihad who blow up women and children, and who have rained deadly missels on Israel's innocent civilians.....I feel that there is no hope in all of this; Nasrallah said it: while the "Jews" love life, we love death---and they will fight to that and that is that; there ain't no diplomacy for that kind of thinking...sue amnon hadari wrote: Yuval wrote Dear Roz, [...] 78151 74 65_Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:41:48 -0700433_iso-8859-1 Judy

Thank you for the kind words. Thank you also for just being there. By default, you are often the only voice of reason. Please never abandon us.

Sincerely,

Steve





----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" To: Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 4:37 AM Subject: Re: Americans and the incurable Mideast/ Haaretz/ Bradley Burston [...] 78226 88 20_Traitors and Treason11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:51:23 -0700549_iso-8859-1 Sam wrote: because some of the readers on Habonet have stated they think the NYT is run by traitors.

Steve responds: I am not sure whether or not Sam is referring to my part of the discussion. If he is, please let the record show that I did not call the people at the NYT traitors. It is not my style, and my point had nothing to do with who these people are, but rather what level of journalistic self-interest at the expense of national security would be tolerated before it would constitute treason. By the way, Sam, if it [...] 78315 482 29_Re: a little translation help13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:52:19 -0400576_iso-8859-1 Ken,

Besides a long discussion on transliterating Hebrew vowels into more precise English ones (which would be a maddening task in itself, since Hebrew does not have the concept of a long vowel as opposed to that of a short one), I suggest we make a short comparative case. The word Amenu as in "Our People" (singular) has only one short Hebrew vowel between the mem and the nun: that vowel is a tzeyreh, which would usually be rendered by a simple short e in most latin languages, like in the English word "mental." At least that's how Hebrew speakers [...] 78798 30 10_Who is Who12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:58:09 -0400459_us-ascii I don't want to prolong this discussion, but...

When I joined the list, I had to describe my connection to Habonim to the list-master in order to be approved. I assume the same was true of each of you.

The welcome message I got when I was admitted to the list recommended that I send a message to the list introducing myself. I think I added some details to the message I had sent to the list-master and sent it to the whole list. [...] 78829 81 19_Flow of Information11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:14:24 -0700605_iso-8859-1 I heard two bloggers yesterday that seemed to have the pulse of the events in the current war.

Up to date and hugely informative.

www.truthlaidbear.com

www.yonitheblogger.com

Yoni's site should be ready by this afternoon, from what I could tell.

Steve



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 78911 27 37_Next Generation (Was: Twersky to NYT)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:19:28 -0400341_us-ascii David wrote:

> Every invasion, every occupation, just creates the next generation > of enemies.

To me, this is the heart of the matter. Israel's policy of collective punishment, whether in Gaza and the West Bank or in southern Lebanon, has a proven track record. It doesn't stop terrorism; it creates terrorists. [...] 78939 58 36_Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT)12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:36:29 -0700391_iso-8859-1 Sorry to burst your bubble, Noam. Well, not really sorry :-)

Noam Stopak wrote: Sharon, I was with you before, but now clearly you've given us reason to doubt your Habonim credentials :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Gates To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: list membership (Twersky to NYT) [...] 78998 77 11_Re: the war12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:04:16 -0700584_iso-8859-1 I heard Clawson on NPR this morning while driving in to work. In addition so some of what Steve has written below, Clawson noted that one of the fundamental underpinnings of democracy is "ballots not bullets." This piece of the puzzle has not been emphasized in the recent past, leading to the current situation (I use the term "situation" broadly, not just meaning Lebanon & Gaza). We were so happy to see elections in Lebanon in the 90s that we didn't press for disbanding the militias. Similarly in Iraq. The "ballots not bullets" choice has not been fully made in [...] 79076 54 21_Re: Time to Talk /WSJ12_Sharon Gates25_newfriendsharon@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:07:20 -0700385_iso-8859-1 I found this to be a very interesting piece. For George W to do the things Gelb recommends, however, W would have to be a different person from who he is (or at least, he would have to act like a different person). What Gelb is recommending is a sensible, long-range approach to serious issues facing the world. W is not known for taking that sort of approach. -Sharon [...] 79131 308 11_Re: the war8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:26:10 +0200616_US-ASCII From these observations (and my personal view) it would seem that the IDF has much more than the security of Israel riding on its shoulders. If the success of the G8's and other players' success in negotiating with Iran over its nuclear weapons depends on how badly Hizb'allah is knocked about then one would think that western governments ought to be supporting, indeed encouraging, Israel's campaign. Today Afula, tomorrow London or Paris. My impression is that the Europeans are too enervated and in thrall to their increasingly vocal and radical Muslim minorities to take such a muscular approach. [...] 79440 295 12_Fwd: the war0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 15:39:59 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 79736 64 74_New Map of Beirut Plus Southern Suburbs Negates Claims of Mass Destruction8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:36:36 +0200463_US-ASCII http://vitalperspective.typepad.com/vital_perspective_clarity/2006/07/new_ma p_of_beir.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 79801 29 56_URL's (Was: A glossary of delusions/ Haaretz/ Aluf Benn)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 21:11:25 -0400434_ISO-8859-1 Jon wrote: > Roz, do you think you could include the URL's of the articles you send?

That's a great suggestion, not just for Roz but for anybody who forwards a newspaper article to Habonet.

I sometimes want to share articles that people send to Habonet, but some of the mailing lists and bulletin boards I frequent don't allow long quotations (copyright issues). And other readers often ask for sources. [...] 79831 155 59_seattletimes.com: Hatred hits home: 6 shot at Jewish office0_15_debalev@AOL.COM31_Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:13:25 -0700534_- This message was sent to you by debalev@aol.com, as a service of The Seattle Times (http://www.seattletimes.com).

Comments from sender: Horrible news; it has already been condemned by the local Muslim community. A silent march to ask for a cease fire that had been scheduled for tomorrow has been cancelled. ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hatred hits home: 6 shot at Jewish office Full story: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003160576_webshooting29m1.html [...] 79987 75 16_Reasonable Doubt16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 29 Jul 2006 04:59:36 -0700721_iso-8859-1 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/29/opinion/29goldstein.html

Op-Ed Contributor Reasonable Doubt By REBECCA NEWBERGER GOLDSTEIN Boston THURSDAY marked the 350th anniversary of the excommunication of the philosopher Baruch Spinoza from the Portuguese Jewish community of Amsterdam in which he had been raised. Given the events of the last week, particularly those emanating from the Middle East, the Spinoza anniversary didn’t get a lot of attention. But it’s one worth remembering — in large measure because Spinoza’s life and thought have the power to illuminate the kind of events that at the moment seem so intractable and overwhelming. The exact reasons for the excommunication of the 23-year-old [...] 80063 32 42_And now for something completely different16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL31_Sat, 29 Jul 2006 11:37:39 -0400677_iso-8859-1 Some nachas for a baseball dad:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/743758.html





Avi Rosenberg

Kibbutz Gezer





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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 80096 2112 79_Fw (from Elihu Davison): The Atlantic - Bernard Lewis: The Roots of Muslim Rage13_Yuval Warshai20_warshy@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:33:46 -0400326_iso-8859-1 Yuval, I tried to post this to Habonet but it was rejected. (This article is available online only to Atlantic subscribers, so I copied it for posting. Its url may be useless for non-subscribers.) Can you forward it for me? I think it might add substantive background for the current discussion. Thanks. ELIHU [...] 82209 217 39_Some Random Thoughts on the Current War28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter20_habesor@SMILE.NET.IL31_Sat, 29 Jul 2006 19:47:43 +0200554_iso-8859-1 Some Random Thoughts on the Current War

Here we are once again at war with our Muslim neighbors. Most of the action has taken place elsewhere in the country. So without much fear of a Kassam or a Katusha rocket coming down on my head, I have had the luxury of contemplating this war in ways other than the usual how to survive it mode. I have also been following the discussions about this two-front war on the TV, the newspapers and various internet forums. I would like to comment about both the war and those who comment on it. [...] 82427 24 43_Re: Some Random Thoughts on the Current War12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sat, 29 Jul 2006 15:45:38 -0400284_iso-8859-1 Ephraim you did it again. What a masterful piece ! >As for the war itself – The other evening my wife, Maxene, turned to me and said, "You didnt predict this one did you?" I had to swallow my pride and admit the truth. This war took me more than a little by surprise. [...] 82452 77 44_appeal to erase more (less stuff, more fun?)12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sat, 29 Jul 2006 22:39:44 +0300576_windows-1255 Haverim yekarim, Is it too much to ask everyone to erase the previous messages before hitting 'send' when replying to Habonet postings (or at least most of them?). For those of us who receive Habonet as a digest (or am I the only one??), it takes forever to scroll through the repeats upon repeats (including multiple copies of long articles), which in any case come out garbled. 'Yahoo' lists link the table of contents in digest postings for easier access but I guess 'Shamash' is a step behind. I would very much like to re-enter the arena but the digest [...] 82530 27 64_'in-digest-ion' was appeal to erase more (less stuff, more fun?)12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 01:29:16 -0400 82558 46 27_Comedy Central on the "war"16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 04:45:25 -0700567_iso-8859-1 A little levity

Comedy Central on the "war" English

Shortcut to: http://www.stupidity.org/video/675



--------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 82605 84 36_Going Nowhere/ Sami Michael/ Haaretz16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 05:11:03 -0700550_iso-8859-1 Going nowhere By Tamar Rotem

The highways were empty Tuesday afternoon when the siren snuck up with a dull roar, like a sleeping monster that has suddenly awoke to the smell of its prey. Michael came down to the entrance of the building in order to welcome me. Recently someone came to visit, and he was also caught by the siren at the entrance. The guest threw himself into a niche at the side of the road. Upstairs in the apartment they started to worry about him. It turned out he had suffered a panic attack. Now, to be on [...] 82690 60 39_Re: Efraim Perlmutter's random thoughts16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:32:08 -0400552_us-ascii Ephraim, Thanks for the reference to Dilip Hiro's Holy Wars: The Rise of Islamic Fundamentalism. I have a complementary reading suggestion for you, the new work by Ephraim Karsh entitled Islamic Imperialism. Your chainch, ELIHU DAVISON



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 82751 103 13_laser defense11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:35:11 -0400728_iso-8859-1 Someone mentioned this recently. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like a winner.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/world/middleeast/30laser.html

+++

July 30, 2006 Antimissile Weapon U.S. and Israel Shelved Laser as a Defense By WILLIAM J. BROAD Ten years ago, in a preview of the current Middle East crisis, Hezbollah guerrillas fired hundreds of Katyusha rockets into Israel. The attacks prompted President Bill Clinton and the Israeli prime minister, Shimon Peres, to agree to develop a futuristic laser meant to destroy the rockets in flight. But last September, after spending more than $300 million, the United States and Israel quietly shelved the experimental weapon, mainly because of [...] 82855 39 39_Re: Efraim Perlmutter's random thoughts11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:53:46 -0400788_ISO-8859-1 Coming to visiting day???? Judy

Elihu D. Davison wrote:

> Ephraim, > Thanks for the reference to Dilip Hiro's /*Holy Wars: The Rise of > Islamic Fundamentalism*/. I have a complementary reading suggestion > for you, the new work by Ephraim Karsh entitled /*Islamic Imperialism*/. > Your chainch, > ELIHU DAVISON > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew College > , which offers online courses and an online > MA in Jewish Studies . > > To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > [...] 82895 55 39_Re: Efraim Perlmutter's random thoughts11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 09:33:31 -0400700_ISO-8859-1 Sorry--That was just for Elihu! Judy

Judy Gelman wrote:

> Coming to visiting day???? > Judy > > Elihu D. Davison wrote: > >> Ephraim, >> Thanks for the reference to Dilip Hiro's /*Holy Wars: The Rise >> of Islamic Fundamentalism*/. I have a complementary reading >> suggestion for you, the new work by Ephraim Karsh entitled /*Islamic >> Imperialism*/. >> Your chainch, >> ELIHU DAVISON >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network >> , a service of Hebrew College >> , which offers online courses and an online >> MA in [...] 82951 84 31_Re: Comedy Central on the "war"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 10:16:39 EDT284_US-ASCII Rozzie

Thank you so much for putting that John Stewart clip up. I watch the show as often as I can but I missed that one. You know he is more than just a laugh. The Cable networks are taking his critique of their programing seriously. This little clip shows why. [...] 83036 96 35_Run or hit back/ Yaron London/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 08:02:45 -0700964_iso-8859-1 The herd of peace lovers

Either run or hit back with all your might. Yaron London recalls his father's Zionist advise

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = url;} else {var x = window.open(url,'newWin',urlAtts)} break; case 'yaan' : urlStr [...] 83133 101 22_Programming in Wartime12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 15:46:51 -0400 83235 34 17_Re: laser defense14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 22:51:21 +0200367_iso-8859-1 Yes, I mentioned it after seeing a program on Israel tv in the early days of the war. An Israeli scientist was interviewed and he said that the laser had a 100% success rate, intercepting 40 out of 40 tests. The scientist also said that 3 units could defend the entire Gaza border.....Except for the size and cost, it sure sounds like a winner to me. [...] 83270 26 39_Re: Run or hit back/ Yaron London/ YNET12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:06:28 -0400 83297 97 26_Re: Programming in Wartime12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 13:10:55 -0700772_iso-8859-1 While mentioning songs, what about "Ani mavtiach lach. yaldah shelik'tanah, she zot teheyeh hamilchamah haachronah..."...I promise you, my little girl, this will be the last war..."..written in 1973 after the Yom Kippur was.....a nice dream and "hope"--perhaps unrealistic....sue

--- amnon hadari wrote:



---------------------------------





Haverim/ot

It must be terrible to be responsible for providing live material in wartime on a daily, hourly, even half hourly basis 24 hours a day. How can you find ample sources of interesting and when possible important material.On the one hand, listeners and viewers are transfixed, tied to the electronic umbilical cord for clarity about [...] 83395 19 26_Re: Programming in Wartime12_amnon hadari22_gershon-keileh@013.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 16:38:39 -0400 83415 60 17_Re: laser defense11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 19:10:25 -0400443_iso-8859-1 If indeed it were 100% successful in real life conditions I'd agree.

This paragraph jumped out at me:

"Frankly, its performance was not great," said Penrose C. Albright, a former Pentagon official who helped initiate the project. "Under certain conditions you can make it work. But under salvo or cloudy conditions, you've got problems. In northern Israel, about 30 percent of the time, you've got a cloud deck." [...] 83476 89 37_No instant results/ Eitan Haber/ YNET16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 17:43:33 -07001008_iso-8859-1 http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3283402,00.html

No instant results, where will it end?

As it seems at present, this war doesn't have an ending in circles outside of the general staff headquarters and the prime minister's office

P{margin:0;} UL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 16; padding-right:0;} OL{margin-bottom:0;margin-top:0;margin-right: 32; padding-right:0;} var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase();var is_major = parseInt(navigator.appVersion);var is_ie = ((agt.indexOf("msie") != -1) & (agt.indexOf("opera") == -1));var is_ie5 = (is_ie & (is_major == 4) & (agt.indexOf("msie 5.0")!=-1) ); function txt_link(type,url,urlAtts) { switch (type){ case 'external' : if( urlAtts != '' ) {var x = window.open(unescape(url),'newWin',urlAtts)} else {document.location = unescape(url);} break; case 'article' : urlStr = '/articles/0,7340,L-to_replace,00.html';url=urlStr.replace('to_replace',url); if( urlAtts == '' || !urlAtts) {document.location = [...] 83566 76 16_Days of darkness16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 18:03:43 -0700757_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=744061

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744061.html

Days of darkness By Gideon Levy

In war as in war: Israel is sinking into a strident, nationalistic atmosphere and darkness is beginning to cover everything. The brakes we still had are eroding, the insensitivity and blindness that characterized Israeli society in recent years is intensifying. The home front is cut in half: the north suffers and the center is serene. But both have been taken over by tones of jingoism, ruthlessness and vengeance, and the voices of extremism that previously characterized the camp's margins are now expressing its heart. The left has once again lost its way, [...] 83643 18 32_Mosh kids at the Balitmore rally11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 22:44:14 -0400409_ISO-8859-1 http://www.jewishtimes.com/2896.stm

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 83662 38 36_Re: Mosh kids at the Balitmore rally0_18_dgpeds@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 22:57:46 -0400678_us-ascii Why is there a quote from our Rabbi Fink under the picture of kids at the rally? Dan

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judy Gelman Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:44 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Mosh kids at the Balitmore rally



http://www.jewishtimes.com/2896.stm

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 83701 69 11_Re: the war12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 21:59:29 -0700472_iso-8859-1 Total nonsense. Hizbullah isn't refusing a cease-fire, Israel is, backed by the U.S. Clawson is too smart to have said something that stupid and believed it. It's part of the neo-con spin. Utterly Orwellian. David

Steve Hancoff wrote: I heard Patrick Clawson, a director of the Washington Instutute for Near East Policy, and author of "Eternal Iran" as well as scores of articles speak yesterday. He is also a Farsi speaker. He said: [...] 83771 87 11_Re: the war0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 01:04:05 EDT554_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/31/2006 1:01:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dlmandel@PACBELL.NET writes:

Total nonsense. Hizbullah isn't refusing a cease-fire, Israel is, backed by the U.S. Clawson is too smart to have said something that stupid and believed it. It's part of the neo-con spin. Utterly Orwellian. David

I read what was written below. Nowhere did it say that Hizzbollah would not confuse a cease fire. I think that most of the people David that you are spinning as neo cons and Utterly Orwellian are nothing of the kind. [...] 83859 85 11_Re: the war12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sun, 30 Jul 2006 22:36:48 -0700586_iso-8859-1 Surprised to see you say that. In addition to the short message I wrote earlier, I'll not that Pat (I went to college with him by the way) also distorts/ignores the history of how this thing started. There have been a lot of cross border skirmishes before with them. There have been soldiers taken hostage before, and they have usually resulted in exchanges. Probably will this time too. There had been a 10-year, unilateral truce as far as katyushas went. For 10 years, no Israeli casualties in the north, not civilians and not soldiers. As in 1982, the katyushas that [...] 83945 21 11_Re: the war11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 02:20:34 -0400457_ISO-8859-1 David- Who in the US do you consider a more reliable analyst of event in Iran? Judy

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 83967 137 11_Re: the war0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 07:41:42 EDT430_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/31/2006 1:38:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dlmandel@PACBELL.NET writes:

It's obvious that the escalation occurred at a time of Israel's choosing, not necessary Hizbullah's (though maybe it was also eager, but I think way more for its own reasons, not as a surrogate for Iran). I'm sure Pat knows all this very well, so I can only conclude it's deliberate media spin. Don't fall for it! [...] 84105 97 34_Bradley Burston/ Pimping Hezbollah16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 04:43:46 -0700636_iso-8859-1 http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744724.html

Pimping Hezbollah: Media bias done well By Bradley Burston





We don't like to talk about it. But all journalists worth their salt know how to do media bias.

The best use the skill to balance their reporting. The worst use the slant to recast convoluted reality into the more easily digestible villains-versus-victims passion play, the better to market stories and themselves. And then there is the third case, the most prevalent, in which media bias has been effectively eradicated in many quarters, less out of ethics than out of fear. [...] 84203 154 11_Re: the war11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 07:57:40 -0400392_iso-8859-1 Yes, let's look at history. What happened in those 10 years when there were no casualties in the north? Israel withdrew from Lebanon to the UN recognized border, and Hezbollah stockpiled on the order of 13000 missiles. Seems to me they were the ones planning an escalation at the time of their own choosing - what do you think they planned to do with all that hardware David? [...] 84358 55 36_Re: Mosh kids at the Balitmore rally11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 09:46:54 -0400900_ISO-8859-1 I have absolutely no idea! Judy

dgpeds@COMCAST.NET wrote:

>Why is there a quote from our Rabbi Fink under the picture of kids at the >rally? Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Judy Gelman >Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:44 PM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Mosh kids at the Balitmore rally > > >http://www.jewishtimes.com/2896.stm > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and >an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > >To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET [...] 84414 169 29_Olmert's speech to the nation16_Rosalind Barland18_rbarland@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:19:16 -0700335_iso-8859-1 Olmert: There will be no cease-fire in coming days By Ze'ev Schiff, Amos Harel and Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondents, Haaretz Service and Agencies

Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Monday evening that there would be no cease-fire in the coming days, despite a 48-hour halt in Israel Air Force activity in Lebanon. [...] 84584 62 11_Re: the war13_richard smith21_rdsmith1957@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 15:12:00 -0700626_iso-8859-1 What about this spin on the situation Noam? What Israel is doing is strengthening Hezbollah politically, seems to have had little effect on them militarily and doesn't seem to be getting the kidnapped soldiers back and is, therefore, a failed policy.

Noam Stopak wrote: Yes, let's look at history. What happened in those 10 years when there were no casualties in the north? Israel withdrew from Lebanon to the UN recognized border, and Hezbollah stockpiled on the order of 13000 missiles. Seems to me they were the ones planning an escalation at the time of their own choosing - [...] 84647 70 11_Re: the war11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 18:22:16 -0400603_ISO-8859-1 Don';t you think it is a little soon to make this sort of judgment?

Judy

richard smith wrote:

> What about this spin on the situation Noam? What Israel is doing is > strengthening Hezbollah politically, seems to have had little effect > on them militarily and doesn't seem to be getting the kidnapped > soldiers back and is, therefore, a failed policy. > > */Noam Stopak /* wrote: > > Yes, let's look at history. What happened in those 10 years when > there were no casualties in the north? Israel withdrew from > Lebanon to the UN recognized [...] 84718 89 11_Re: the war11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:20:55 -0400553_iso-8859-1 Not sure about the military effect, but the rest sounds about right. So given that analysis, what do you suggest as an alternative strategy? ----- Original Message ----- From: richard smith To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, July 31, 2006 6:12 PM Subject: Re: the war



What about this spin on the situation Noam? What Israel is doing is strengthening Hezbollah politically, seems to have had little effect on them militarily and doesn't seem to be getting the kidnapped soldiers back and is, therefore, a failed policy. [...] 84808 81 80_[Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 22:00:40 -0400553_ISO-8859-1 These were sent to me by a friend from Haifa. I thought some of you would find them interesting

Judy

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A photographer has been taking some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa. The targets and neighborhoods pictured are quite familiar to anyone who grew up in the city.





http://auapps.american.edu/~carmel/haifa/rocketsinhaifa6.pps [...] 84890 131 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:54:15 -0700497_iso-8859-1 Judy- all I get is gibberish- any chance we can get them sent ina joeg format?--sue

--- Judy Gelman wrote:

> These were sent to me by a friend from Haifa. I > thought some of you > would find them interesting > > Judy > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > A photographer has been taking some interesting and > gruesome photos > from the war in Haifa. The targets and neighborhoods > pictured are quite > familiar to anyone who grew up in the city. > > > > [...] 85022 180 84_Re: [Fwd: WAR IN ISRAEL: some interesting and gruesome photos from the war in Haifa]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 31 Jul 2006 23:05:13 -0400546_ISO-8859-1 Maybe someone else knows how to do that or find it. It's beyond me. Judy "not a geek" Gelman

Sue Liberman wrote:

>Judy- all I get is gibberish- any chance we can get >them sent ina joeg format?--sue > >--- Judy Gelman wrote: > > > >>These were sent to me by a friend from Haifa. I >>thought some of you >>would find them interesting >> >>Judy >> >>- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> A photographer has been taking some interesting and >>gruesome photos >>from the war in Haifa. The targets and [...]