1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet November 2005
2 687 8_Fwd: RE:19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM30_Tue, 1 Nov 2005 04:30:09 -0500
690 96 27_Fw: Irani Holocaust Deniers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 1 Nov 2005 07:14:10 -0800551_iso-8859-1
This is a URL to a clip about how Holocaust deniers are persecuted and hunted down by the "Mossad", played by two of the worst actors ever making it to film. It is sad to think that this is the crap they use on each other, and that it is actually convincing to them! Total viewing is about eight minutes. It doesn't get any better after the first few minutes, when a REAL docent shows them around a REAL shower from the camps and a REAL sign states the showers were never actually used on the Jews. Under different conditions, [...]
787 720 84_Fw: The AKP Government's Attempt to Move Turkey From Secularism to Islamism (Part I)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 1 Nov 2005 09:04:33 -0800366_utf-8
As Turkey has been a key player against Islamism, and a past ally of Israel (and the US), these articles should be highly interesting and extremely relevant to us. Israel's connection with Turkey are huge and complex. Water, military support, political support; all of these could erode rapidly if the Islamists succeed in their nefarious agenda. [...]
1508 175 42_Fw: [Kulanu-List] Genealogy programs in DC13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 1 Nov 2005 22:11:27 +0200670_iso-8859-1 >>Gloria Mound, >>Founder and Director >>of Casa Shalom: Center for Marrano and Anusim Studies
>>will address JGSGW >>on Sunday, November 13, 2005 >>at B'nai Israel Congregation, Stearman Auditorium, Rockville MD >>Schmooze at 1:30 PM, Program at 2:00 PM, >> >>"Hidden Jews of the Americas" >> >>Casa Shalom is a center for the study and collection of material on >>individual and collective secret Jews from all over the world: Jews >>of Meshed, Ireland, Sao Tome, New Mexico, Brazil, Cuba, and other >>Central and South American countries, Spain, Portugal, and the >>Balearic Islands. Casa Shalom is engaged in projects linked to >>universities [...]
1684 56 17_change of address13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:50:38 +0200573_windows-1255 brian and habonet:
i am not quite sure if i got through in the way i was explained to do, but would like to change my address from skolnik@netvision.net.il to pskolnik@netvision.net.il all mail should be sent only to the latter address. thank you, pearl
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1741 86 61_Fw: M. Rubin in NY Sun on terrorism in Turkey: "The Same War"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:32:45 -0800415_iso-8859-1 Well worth readeing and sending onward, especially to Washington.
steve
Subject: M. Rubin in NY Sun on terrorism in Turkey: "The Same War"
The Same War by Michael Rubin New York Sun November 2, 2005 http://www.meforum.org/article/785
Hardly a day goes by when an improvised explosive device does not kill or maim a soldier or civilian bystanders. [...]
1828 423 17_Fw: funny cartoon11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Nov 2005 12:43:40 -0800545_iso-8859-1
----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 7:06 AM Subject: funny cartoon
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2252 443 34_If you ever worked in a hodiyah!--12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:44:08 -0800538_iso-8859-1 check out this card--have a good laugh..s
Note: forwarded message attached.
__________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com
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2696 238 5_names16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:35:35 -0500415_us-ascii Newsday.com
Israeli Rabbis Release Forbidden-Name List
By LAURIE COPANS Associated Press Writer
November 2, 2005, 2:16 PM EST
JERUSALEM -- A group of Israeli rabbis has put together a list of names they say should be off-limits to Jewish children -- including Ariel and Omri, the given names of Israel's prime minister and his eldest son. [...]
2935 154 25_David Dubinsky book party16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 3 Nov 2005 19:41:55 -0500598_us-ascii Change of Location - Same Date & Time
The Tamiment Library's Book Party
Tuesday November 15, 2005 // 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm
for
The Master of Seventh Avenue: David Dubinsky and the American Labor Movement
by Robert D. Parmet (New York University Press, 2005)
Will be held at
The SEIU, Local 32B-J Building
101 Avenue of the Americas (6th Avenue - bet. Grand and Watts Streets) [...]
3090 231 40_Fw: PA unable to prevent Gaza land theft11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 4 Nov 2005 07:22:36 -0800698_iso-8859-1
Written by an Arab Muslim journalist who is a citizen of Israel.
__________________________________________________________________-
PA unable to prevent Gaza land theft
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Khaled Abu Toameh, THE JERUSALEM POST Nov. 2, 2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More than two months after the Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, the Palestinian Authority seems to have failed in preventing many land thieves from laying their hands on the former area of Gush Katif. [...]
3322 160 13_Shir Hashalom6_Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Fri, 4 Nov 2005 23:39:56 +0200563_us-ascii Haverot/im On this 10th anniversary of Rabin's assassination the song that has posthumously become associated with him is played and printed in all the media here. The man I loved had no voice at all but was endowed with great courage. A military man his entire adult life he had but little time for peaceniks like me. But toward the end he realized that there was no military solution to the Israeli - Palestinian struggle and opted for a sudden shift, the Oslo Plan. He paid with his life. I dedicate this song to Sharon who is hopefully a Johnny [...]
3483 97 20_Fw: Attempt on El Al11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:23:46 -0800807_iso-8859-1
FYI
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:21 AM Subject: Attempt on El Al
----------------------------------------------------~->
Jerusalem Post posted Nov. 5, 2005 3:29 | Updated Nov. 5, 2005 13:18
Report: Dutch police foil attack on El Al plane By JPOST.COM STAFF http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1131043726486&pagename=JPost% 2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
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3581 72 36_David Grossman/ The night Rabin died11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:58:38 -0600388_ISO-8859-1 The night Rabin died When he was gunned down 10 years ago, Israel's hope and innocence fell with him. By David Grossman
November 4, 2005
I WAS THERE, at the square in front of Tel Aviv's City Hall, on the night Yitzhak Rabin was murdered. It was supposed to be a different kind of rally, different from all the other demonstrations I had gone to in my life. [...]
3654 83 17_"Iraq, Unplugged"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sun, 6 Nov 2005 05:53:22 -0800348_iso-8859-1 This article gives a side to the Iraq story that our newspapers don't. I am not forwarding it for any other reason than to supplyinformation about some of the things going on in Iraq that major news media seem to miss. The article is consistent with my daughter-in-law's personal reports from Iraq, where she served until recently. [...]
3738 80 12_David Kelman0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:21:55 EST518_US-ASCII Dear Habonet community
I know that when David Kelman passed away, a lot of you posted memories of him. I mention that to his sister Judy Bennett who lives in Beit HaEmek and she would very much like to hear some of your re actions. I think those posts are long since out of my mailbox. Any of you kind enough to post again anything you remember about David from the movement on Habonet I will make sure it gets to his sister. Her E mail is _judygary@b-emek.org.il_ (mailto:judygary@b-emek.org.il) [...]
3819 365 40_Re: David Grossman/ The night Rabin died0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:03:02 -0500505_us-ascii Rozzie:
Thanks for posting this article. Do you know where it was orginally published? I would like to provide a link to it in my Ameinu forum.
Thanks,
Ken
-----Original Message----- From: Roz Barland To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 13:58:38 -0600 Subject: David Grossman/ The night Rabin died
The night Rabin died When he was gunned down 10 years ago, Israel's hope and innocence fell with him. By David Grossman [...]
4185 69 16_Re: David Kelman12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 6 Nov 2005 09:14:50 -0800315_iso-8859-1 Thank you Sam for posting Judy and Gary's email address. I considered myself a friend of Judy--and remember David from my days at Galil, and I had no way of knowing how to reach her.....(I must admit I don't use the peoplefinder as I should)- Thanks again- susie
--- Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: [...]
4255 40 45_Middle East Affairs Lecture at Loyola College11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Sun, 6 Nov 2005 17:47:38 -0600562_ISO-8859-1 DR. ROBERT O. FREEDMAN TO GIVE MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS LECTURE AT LOYOLA COLLEGE
Author Dr. Robert O. Freedman, the Peggy Meyerhoff Pearlstone Professor of Political Science at Baltimore Hebrew University, will deliver a lecture at Loyola College on Wednesday, November 9, titled, “After the Disengagement: Is There Hope for Peace in the Middle East?” The lecture, free and open to the public, is scheduled for 5:30 p.m. in McGuire Hall on Loyola’s North Charles Street Campus. A question-and-answer session and reception will follow. [...]
4296 65 12_leaving town23_Avi and Batsheva Livney20_livney@BARKAI.ORG.IL30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:55:45 +0200508_windows-1255 Hi, We're leaving town on Thursday, Nov. 10th, and won't be back until Dec. 1st, so hang onto all those great bon mots and other stuff(which we will, of course, miss) until we return. --Avi & Bat
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4362 92 27_Peace Now Demonstration #9312_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:08:46 +0200477_us-ascii Haverot/im Shalom Achshav called and like a well trained horse I went out again. This time it was a protest against the bestial behavior of the settlers at Hebron. What do you mean, how come? I always go when called. Well fewer times lately. But still, noblesse oblige. Didn't we sing "rishonim tamid anachnu anu anu hapalmach? The demonstrators were stopped at the Halhul junction outside Hebron. Busses were directed to an open field off the road and above it. [...]
4455 107 16_Re: leaving town12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 10:17:28 +0200403_windows-1255 Enjoy! Whereya going? Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: Avi and Batsheva Livney To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 9:55 AM Subject: leaving town
Hi, We're leaving town on Thursday, Nov. 10th, and won't be back until Dec. 1st, so hang onto all those great bon mots and other stuff(which we will, of course, miss) until we return. --Avi & Bat [...]
4563 87 31_Re: Peace Now Demonstration #930_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 05:54:28 EST609_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/07/2005 3:09:48 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:
Shalom Achshav called and like a well trained horse I went out again. This time it was a protest against the bestial behavior of the settlers at Hebron.
Amnon
I have heard a great deal about the bad behavior of the settlers in Hebron. You are probably aware that there are people who read these pages who think the settlers in Hebron are model misunderstood citizens. Anything we can do to get the truth out about the antics of the settlers of Hebron will be well appreciated. [...]
4651 1885 34_Fw: Map of Trouble Spots in France11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 08:59:10 -0800596_iso-8859-1
If one can find humor in the pathos, how about representing Muslim turmoil with Jewish stars?
Steve
Subject: Fw: Map of Trouble Spots in France
In a message dated 11/6/2005 10:01:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, mguadi@tiscali.fr writes:
Le 7/11/05 3:04, SliwaNews@aol.com a écrit :
----- Message from Mohamed Ibn Guadi on Mon, 07 Nov 2005 04:00:30 +0100 ----- To: Maria Elizabeth Sliwa Subject: Re : Comments from a Parisian on Paris Burning [...]
6537 91 12_Then and Now11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:06:26 -0800659_iso-8859-1
www.suntimes.com
Back to regular view http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn06.html Print this page
A well-written article describing events that began centuries ago.
Steve
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6629 72 61_[QUAR] Fw: link to photos of French riots you don't see on TV11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 09:14:16 -0800565_iso-8859-1
I love the refence under the photos "French youths set fires" "French youths battle police".
Steve
Subject: link to photos of French riots you don't see on TV
http://watch.windsofchange.net/paris_burning.htm
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6702 131 65_Re: [QUAR] Fw: link to photos of French riots you don't see on TV13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 15:26:48 -0500689_us-ascii Dear Steve,
What would you call young people who were born and raised in France, have gone to French schools, have French first names (because no others can be registered in France), hold French citizenship and, in many cases, only speak French?
Judy
Steve Klein wrote:
> > I love the refence under the photos "French youths set fires" "French > youths battle police". > > Steve > > > *Subject:* link to photos of French riots you don't see on TV > > > http://watch.windsofchange.net/paris_burning.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish [...]
6834 204 65_Re: [QUAR] Fw: link to photos of French riots you don't see on TV8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Mon, 7 Nov 2005 22:33:22 +0200388_us-ascii Dear Judy,
In France they call them "Arabs." That is probably part of the problem.
Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Monday, November 07, 2005 10:27 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: [QUAR] Fw: link to photos of French riots you don't see on TV [...]
7039 96 49_Re: Middle East Affairs Lecture at Loyola College16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:15:59 -0500718_iso-8859-1 Is this one of those subliminal messages?
Avi, Gezer
Original Message: ----------------- From: Roz Barland rbarland@MJDS.ORG Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 17:47:38 -0600 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Middle East Affairs Lecture at Loyola College
DR. ROBERT O. FREEDMAN TO GIVE MIDDLE EAST AFFAIRS LECTURE AT LOYOLA COLLEGE
Author Dr. Robert O. Freedman, the Peggy Meyerhoff Pearlstone Professor of Political Science at Baltimore Hebrew University, will deliver a lecture at Loyola College on Wednesday, November 9, titled, “After the Disengagement: Is There Hope for Peace in the Middle East?” The lecture, free and open to the public, is scheduled for 5:30 p.m. [...]
7136 44 37_re-instate the UC study abrad program11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Wed, 9 Nov 2005 08:30:16 -0600359_us-ascii Today it begins.
(1) An online petition to reinstate the UC study abroad program to Israel is up for all to sign. The address is http://www.petitiononline.com/ASIUCSB/petition.html
I urge you all to sign it, and forward the website address to all your friends and family. Great things can happen once we collect enough signatures. [...]
7181 719 47_Fw: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 9 Nov 2005 07:58:30 -0800558_iso-8859-1
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: citadel_abroad@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:56 AM Subject: Fw: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!
Adi
I wouldn't send this on to any non-Jewish friends. I might send this to Chirac while France is going up in Muslim smoke.
These thoughts written below are the root causes of anti-semitism, alive and well long before Jews made themselves look odd to their European neighbors by dressing in black and wearing streimels. [...]
7901 174 51_Re: Fw: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:19:23 +0000497_- My guess is, and I have no actual evidence, that none of these folks have met you, Steve.
-------------- Original message --------------
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: citadel_abroad@yahoo.com Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 7:56 AM Subject: Fw: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!
Adi
I wouldn't send this on to any non-Jewish friends. I might send this to Chirac while France is going up in Muslim smoke. [...]
8076 874 51_Re: Fw: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 9 Nov 2005 12:31:19 -0800578_iso-8859-1
Richard
Thank you for providing some of the finer entertainment on what was becoming an otherwise dreary day. It is overcast and rainy. One other bright spot is that we just seeded the lawn, and I didn't really have the time or energy to hand-water.
In answer to your question: No, none of these folks ever met me, as they are dead. Reading between the lines, I am guessing your thoughts were in the direction of : "Would these people have included me in the annals of Jewish thinkers?". I don't think so, as I am not a great intellectual. [...]
8951 237 51_Re: Fw: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 9 Nov 2005 22:12:59 +0000439_- I always get my feathers ruffled when people send stuff like this and about all the Nobel prizes Jews have won because it seems so self-congratulatory as to make me uncomfortable. But what really piqued my interest was the quote from the South African Olive Schreiner. I had never heard of her so I looked her up and am interested in knowing how she was able to write so eloquently about the Holocaust considering she died in 1920? [...]
9189 31 47_Re: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 10 Nov 2005 10:59:37 +0200475_us-ascii From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET
My guess is, and I have no actual evidence, that none of these folks have met you, Steve.
This is Amnon weighing in (no small matter.) There have been times in the past that I've been irritated by the chip on Steve's shoulder as well as his flood of postings. But he belongs to our chevra and by the virtue of that is a chaver. I feel that your one line zinger to him on Habonet was an un-chaverlike message. [...]
9221 67 47_Re: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 10 Nov 2005 06:30:25 -0800577_iso-8859-1 On the other hand, Amnon, Richard's research and subsequent posting of the information gleaned on one of the subjects is, to my mind, pretty invaluable. And I say that as someone that completely ignores anything that is forwarded to this list by Steve Klein. As a matter of principle I never read any of the messages forwarded by him. But seeing what Richard was able to come up with regards to the veracity of the stuff contained in these spurious mass 'forwardings' was for me very rewarding, and I want to thank Richard for not letting this stuff go through [...]
9289 34 24_Im ain ani li mi li?....12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Nov 2005 07:55:02 -0800578_iso-8859-1 Dear Chevre-THIS IS NOT A SOLICITATION!--I have started a side-business which will bring in residual income, and allow me to do more of what I am passionate about (donate more to Habonim Foundation, write, work with Save a Childs Heart, etc..etc.)....and I need your help- at the same time- I may be able to save you some $$$ on basic services you use everyday. If you are interested in helping me, and are curious about saving some of your own money- please email me privately with your phone number so that I can talk to you----Thanks- sue(sie) freed liberman [...]
9324 129 28_Re: Im ain ani li mi li?....13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 10 Nov 2005 14:05:37 -0500627_us-ascii Dear Susie,
I would be interested in hearing about what you are doing.
Warmly Judy 202-841-5055
Sue Liberman wrote:
>Dear Chevre-THIS IS NOT A SOLICITATION!--I have >started a side-business which will bring in residual >income, and allow me to do more of what I am >passionate about (donate more to Habonim Foundation, >write, work with Save a Childs Heart, >etc..etc.)....and I need your help- at the same time- >I may be able to save you some $$$ on basic services >you use everyday. If you are interested in helping me, >and are curious about saving some of your own money- [...]
9454 52 32_following Sue's train of thought12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 10 Nov 2005 21:23:58 +0200615_iso-8859-1 V'al zeh ne'emar: "Uchsheani l'atzmi mah ani" (in the sense of our obligation to stick up for others) YK, Amnon -Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: "amnon hadary" To: Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 10:59 AM Subject: Re: WHAT SOME KNOWN PEOPLE SAY ABOUT THE JEWS!!
> From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET > > > My guess is, and I have no actual evidence, that none of these folks have > met you, Steve. > > This is Amnon weighing in (no small matter.) There have been times in the > past that I've been irritated by the chip on Steve's [...]
9507 98 36_Re: following Sue's train of thought12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 10 Nov 2005 12:26:00 -0800430_iso-8859-1 I recently nominated Svae A Child's Heart- Ami Cohen's (Z'L)incredible foundation which saves children of any nation who need heart surgery, for the Hilton Humanitarian Prize- the largest prize given in the United States. At the top of the nomination letter, I put Hillel's quote- which I have found to be so relevant these days- Each section alone, and all together has such power-- we should all live by it--sue [...]
9606 99 28_Re: Im ain ani li mi li?....12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 11 Nov 2005 07:49:52 -0800578_iso-8859-1 Thanks Judy for responding- when would be a good time to call you?--I need about 10-15 minutes...Shabbat shalom!!!- Susie
--- Judith Gelman wrote:
> Dear Susie, > > I would be interested in hearing about what you are > doing. > > Warmly > Judy > 202-841-5055 > > > Sue Liberman wrote: > > >Dear Chevre-THIS IS NOT A SOLICITATION!--I have > >started a side-business which will bring in > residual > >income, and allow me to do more of what I am > >passionate about (donate more to Habonim > Foundation, > >write, work with Save a [...]
9706 122 28_Re: Im ain ani li mi li?....11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 11 Nov 2005 07:53:55 -0800458_us-ascii Hi Sue, Any chance of knowing what you are doing ahead of the call?
Batel
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sue Liberman Sent: Friday, November 11, 2005 7:50 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Im ain ani li mi li?....
Thanks Judy for responding- when would be a good time to call you?--I need about 10-15 minutes...Shabbat shalom!!!- Susie [...]
9829 356 28_Re: Im ain ani li mi li?....13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 11 Nov 2005 17:51:14 -0500618_us-ascii Hmm--that west coast/east coast time thing! Call me about 1:30 EST/ 10:30 PST on Monday. I should be in the car and I have a 30 minute dive when we can talk. Judy
Sue Liberman wrote:
>Thanks Judy for responding- when would be a good time >to call you?--I need about 10-15 minutes...Shabbat >shalom!!!- Susie > >--- Judith Gelman wrote: > > > >>Dear Susie, >> >>I would be interested in hearing about what you are >>doing. >> >>Warmly >>Judy >>202-841-5055 >> >> >>Sue Liberman wrote: >> >> >> >>>Dear Chevre-THIS IS NOT A SOLICITATION!--I have >>>started a side-business [...]
10186 49 28_Re: Im ain ani li mi li?....13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:05:34 -0500422_us-ascii Sorry! I thought I was only writing to Susie, Judy
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10236 302 16_paris burning...14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Sat, 12 Nov 2005 08:29:31 +0200494_windows-1255
Subject: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews
All European life died in Auschwitz
By Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez(*)
I walked down the street in Barcelona, and suddenly discovered a terrible
truth - Europe died in Auschwitz.
We killed six million Jews and replaced them with 20 million Muslims. In
Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. We destroyed [...]
10539 94 39_Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Nov 2005 09:12:38 +0200622_iso-8859-1 David, Racism is bad. This article is racist. Amnon
> Subject: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews > >All European life died in Auschwitz > >By Sebastian Vilar Rodrigez(*) > >I walked down the street in Barcelona, and suddenly discovered a terrible > >truth - Europe died in Auschwitz. > >We killed six million Jews and replaced them with 20 million Muslims. In > >Auschwitz we burned a culture, thought, creativity, talent. We destroyed > >the chosen people, truly chosen, because they produced great and wonderful > >people who changed the world. > >The contribution of this people is [...]
10634 74 21_One for the home team8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 14 Nov 2005 17:23:19 +0200690_us-ascii I know one shouldn't brag, but I'm sure you will all forgive me. Jon
Plasan Sasa wins US DOD $100m vehicle armor contract Plasan Sasa will act as subcontractor for Armor Holdings to supply 1,000 medium tactical vehicle replacement protection for Oshkosh trucks. Globes correspondent 13 Nov 05 19:59
Plasan Sasa, a leading developer and manufacturer of ballistic protection products, announced today that it has won a $100 million contract with the US Department of Defense as a subcontractor for Armor Holdings, Inc, to supply an additional 1,000 medium tactical vehicle replacement (MTVR) protection for Oshkosh trucks. This contract is [...]
10709 108 22_Travesty in the Making11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 14 Nov 2005 07:56:35 -0800413_iso-8859-1
If this person becomes president of the M E Association (as the article states), what lower standard could ever apply? How could something like this happen?! Are we all asleep at the switch?!
Those of you who read the article will be treated to words of prejudice becoming to the worst anti-semite. To elect him to office in an American institution is an act that boggles the mind. [...]
10818 127 43_Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 14 Nov 2005 08:26:47 -0800307_iso-8859-1 Amnon
In your opinion, what would one have to do to this article / "op-ed" to keep the truths and clean up the "racism"?
I got the impression that the author had not intended to write this piece to put someone down, but rather to vent his frustrations at a situation gone bad. [...]
10946 46 43_Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 14 Nov 2005 12:15:24 -0500318_- Steve,
You asked:
"In your opinion, what would one have to do to this article / "op-ed" to keep the truths and clean up the "racism"?
I got the impression that the author had not intended to write this piece to put someone down, but rather to vent his frustrations at a situation gone bad. [...]
10993 127 25_Re: One for the home team19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Mon, 14 Nov 2005 13:50:50 -0500
11121 169 43_Fw: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 14 Nov 2005 22:37:22 +0200558_iso-8859-1 > Steve. > > Sometimes, voicing feelings in a public forum is an ethical violation or a > crime. In such a case,the feeling is usually anger, and the author > is either too angry, too irresponsible, too hateful (or all three) to > render his raw feelings into fair and intelligent commentary that > contributes to the > solution rather than to the problem. Perhaps your concern is how the > author could have remained true to his belief (i.e. the racist > generalization that all Moslems are bad... ) Steve - do you agree with > this belief? [...]
11291 204 43_Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Nov 2005 00:58:57 -0800386_iso-8859-1 Jessie
To keep the record straight- No, I do not believe that all Muslims are bad. I don't even believe that most Muslims are bad. At least not in the sense of this discussion. I do believe that there are enough viollent Muslim extremists to make the planet a very uncomfortable place for the next little while. Am I off in some racist fantasy for thinking that? [...]
11496 74 43_Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Nov 2005 01:02:12 -0800607_iso-8859-1 Noam
Your points are well said and valid.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:15 AM Subject: Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews
> Steve, > > You asked: > > "In your opinion, what would one have to do to this article / "op-ed" to > keep the truths and clean up the "racism"? > > I got the impression that the author had not intended to write this piece > to > put someone down, but rather to vent his frustrations at a situation gone > [...]
11571 230 43_Fw: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Tue, 15 Nov 2005 14:16:27 +0200570_iso-8859-1 > Hi Steve. > Thanks for the clarification. In any case, the implication of the author > was that 'all Muslims are bad.' > Good point about Vatican II. In general, the planet could use more of the > like (and better), in all directions. > Jessie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steve Klein" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:58 AM > Subject: Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews > > >> Jessie >> >> To keep the record straight- No, I do not believe that all Muslims are >> bad. [...]
11802 55 43_Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 15 Nov 2005 09:04:20 -0800559_us-ascii Steve wrote: As a Jew, I think of a good Muslim as anyone who doesn't want me dead.
Personally, I find the notion that a "good Muslim" is defined by that person's level of hatred of Jews to be an offensive charicature. Since Islam is a religion first and foremost, a "good Muslim" would be someone with an understanding of and devotion to the tenets of Islam. Substitute "Jew" for "Muslim" and see how it reads. And while you're subsitituing, think about how it sounds to hear a non-Jew say: I think of a good Jew as [insert anything you [...]
11858 151 21_Raising Rebel Rousers11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 15 Nov 2005 21:41:52 -0800533_us-ascii It looks as if the schools in SF will be on strike starting Thursday. Teachers will show their support to the lunch server, janitors and bus drivers by not crossing picket lines. My son, who has been at Gilboa for two years, decided that in order to show support, not only will he not cross picket lines, but he must also teach his class of fourth and fifth graders the words to Union Maid (we just printed 23 copies of it). Not bad. My daughter was able to pick up some extra credit points for her AP US history class [...]
12010 256 25_Re: Raising Rebel Rousers12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 08:47:55 +0200576_ISO-8859-1 Wow, Batel, that's cool, that bit about the song. As for AP US history, it was none other than my Habonim education that induced me to do my 11th grade AP history 35 p. essay based partially on original documents about the Wobblies. We never crossed a picket line in the many years of Phila. school strikes. Nina Herlick, z"l, mother of one of our kvutza and union activist, helped start an alternative school in the local church on one the years of particularly protracted strikes (74, I think). On alternate years there were strikes by the custodial staff - [...]
12267 146 43_Re: Europe got Muslims in exchange for Jews17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 10:19:05 +0200467_us-ascii
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12414 285 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 11:14:40 +0200566_ISO-8859-1 (Hi) Heidi - I get your point - and I, too, feel the palpable future if not present threat to much that I hold dear. But I think you misread Sharon. I don't think Sharon is defending a particular right to self definition, but rather objecting to a type of characterization of another identity group. I understand Sharon to be saying that it's ethnocentric to value a good Muslim based on 'is it good for the Jews.' A good Muslim is a loyal Muslim (an academic point, regardless of whether objectively to be a 'good Muslim' means to emphasize 'jihad' [...]
12700 200 25_Re: Raising Rebel Rousers10_Ezra Salop16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:02:32 -0500573_us-ascii Dear Batel, Thank you for the morning laugh. Your daughter is lucky to go to school in the 1 out of maybe 6 school districts in the US where her t-shirt wouldn't be considered obscene! (San Francisco, Madison, Ann Arbor,....maybe it's only 3) When I was in AP History , our teacher introduced the topic of socialism by asking "Who can name famous socialists?" Someone said Marx, then Lenin and then a member of my kvutza who never ever said anything and was usually asleep raised his hand. The startled teacher called on him and this guy said "Ber Borochov". [...]
12901 64 29_It's Acre, not India/ Haaretz11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 06:09:37 -0600530_us-ascii It's Acre, not India, for these young idealists By Eli Ashkenazi
"This is my India," 24-year-old Oren said, comparing his decision to move to the new urban kibbutz in Acre to the trip many young Israelis embark on after military service. Indeed, the lifestyle he has chosen is different than that of most Israelis his age. Oren and 30 other graduates of the leftist Noar Haoved Vehalomed youth movement, aged 23 to 24, have decided to dedicate their lives to making a contribution to society, as they put it. [...]
12966 66 25_Re: Raising Rebel Rousers13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:09:12 -0500374_us-ascii Sorry about the confusing name. My son, who was not a big emailer up until now, used my email as the address on all his college applications so that I would get any mail and alert him to it. Now he spends every night writing to admissions officers on my computer. He is very good about changing the identity to his, but not about changing it back. Judy Gelman [...]
13033 85 51_Fw: Palestinians Taste a Dose of Their Own Medicine11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 07:04:17 -0800616_iso-8859-1
I hope this comes through.
Steve
Subject: Fw: Palestinians Taste a Dose of Their Own Medicine
Palestinians Taste a Dose of Their Own Medicine by Daniel Pipes New York Sun November 15, 2005 http://www.danielpipes.org/article/3133
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13119 320 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 18:15:07 +0200467_us-ascii
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13440 203 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 09:14:33 -0800561_us-ascii Jessie is correct in her explanation of what I was trying to say. Let's try another exercise in substitution. Would anybody out there characterize a "good Protestant" as one who doesn't want to kill Jews? How about a "good German" (that one may be a little tougher for some). The very notion that all Muslims can or should be characterized by whether or not they want to kill Jews is racist (IMHO). My guess is there are a lot of Muslims out there who couldn't care less about killing Jews, they just want to live their lives like everybody else. [...]
13644 382 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:53:55 +0000532_-
Hiedi,
As someone who has attacked Steve with zeal and enthusiasm, even to the point of beinging repremanded by by Amnon, I can assure you that I don't give a shit about PC.
This thread began with someone (not Steve) sending in an essay which included the following phrase, "we (Europeans) opened our gates to 20 million Muslims, who brought us stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride." [...]
14027 183 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 20:23:11 +0200602_us-ascii Steve,
The reason one needn't be PC to object to the statement you quoted is because it's true. While it certainly doesn't characterize every Muslim in Europe, the general trend is exactly as described. The Europeans are now - probably too late - waking up to the terrible mistake they made in allowing such a huge immigration from Muslim countries and not absorbing them into their societies. If one follows what is going on, not just in France, but in Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden and other countries there, you can see that the social and cultural tensions are starting to [...]
14211 496 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:59:33 +0200516_ISO-8859-1 I didn't make Sharon's point - just clarified it. Perhaps you categorize me as you claim others categorize Steve (as "to PC or not to be"). Ethnocentrism - it's like narcissism - it's vital for the health of the organism (as it were), and determining its misuse/misapplication is a matter of nuance and context. Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: Sheldon and Heidi To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2005 6:15 PM Subject: Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims... [...]
14708 412 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 23:28:24 +0200467_us-ascii
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15121 64 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 15:20:06 -0800559_us-ascii Heidi wrote: 2.Sharon- the only problem I have with your description of the majority of Muslims is that they want to live their lives just like everyone else. Like who? If by everyone else you mean like Americans then I think you are guilty of judging others by your own Western values. There are people in the world for whom economic betterment is not as important as other things. And by other things I do not mean living together in harmony - that is not a universal value. Neither is just doing one's job and raising one's children. We look [...]
15186 258 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 00:02:05 +0000598_-
Jon,
My name is Richard, not Steve.
You say, "The reason one needn't be PC to object to the statement you quoted is because it's true." This sentence, to the best of my knowledge, makes absolutely no sense, at least in English. I'm assuming you mean to say that the statement I quoted is a true statement. The statement I quoted claims that Muslims brought stupidity, bigotry, religious extremism, intolerance and laziness to Europe, as if none of these things existed before the Arabs showed up. If you actually believe that this is true (and even you qualified it by [...]
15445 758 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:31:53 -0500393_iso-8859-1 I'm still in shock that Habonim alumni can argue with a straight face that 20 million Muslims share any but the most superficial set of attributes, much less justify statement that [they] collectively "brought [Europe] stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty due to an unwillingness to work and support their families with pride." [...]
16204 486 25_Re: Raising Rebel Rousers11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:06:07 -0800449_us-ascii You know, I don't think I ever crossed a picket line. I have a feeling my kids won't either. At least they won't have to worry about it this week. The strike was averted at 3 a.m. Batel
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Jessica Bonn Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 10:48 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Raising Rebel Rousers [...]
16691 850 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:50:35 +0200388_ISO-8859-1 The final word! (My one addition to this is a certain pessism as to how it's going to play out... a look back in history doesn't provide much comfort)
Y. koach.
Jessie
----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 12:31 AM Subject: Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims... [...]
17542 42 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:43:55 -0800614_us-ascii In the light of centuries of European history, the idea that Europe was lacking in "stupidity and ignorance, religious extremism and lack of tolerance, crime and poverty" is grimly laughable. Europe managed to create plenty of all of these even before the recent waves of Muslim immigration.
Sharon
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17585 86 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 16:06:01 +0000502_- Come now Sharon, since the Allies defeated the Kaiser in 1918 there's been hardly any problems in Europe.
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17672 191 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 18:17:55 +0200612_us-ascii True enough. So why not pile it on and add even more? Why shouldn't they construct an underclass with values inimical to the progress of the enlightenment, motivated with an ideological commitment to male supremacy and a penchant for violence that makes the wars of the 17th century look like a football game if that's what they want? But is it really? Whatever model they chose, the Europeans seemed to have absorbed the lessons of the catastrophic 20th and constructed a - however faulty - continental society based on democracy rather than tyranny, social welfare rather than class warfare, and [...]
17864 109 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 08:20:01 -0800487_us-ascii That's a good one, Richard.
Sharon
rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 11/17/2005 08:06 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh
To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...
Come now Sharon, since the Allies defeated the Kaiser in 1918 there's been hardly any problems in Europe. [...]
17974 629 21_Fw: important article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 10:04:10 -0800259_UTF-8
No, I do not have the URL for this article, or I would have sent it.
Do not read it if you do not read the stuff from Steve Klein. It is not "more of the same", but it is on the same subject, which is the escalating War of Cultures. [...]
18604 691 25_Re: Fw: important article0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:03:57 +0000602_- Because like Phyllis Chesler I am very interested in correcting falsehoods I would like to point out that no "Democratic operatives" objected to the US attack of Afghanistan, in fact, one of the major objections to the war on Iraq was that we hadn't (and haven't) finished in Afghanistan.
What I find so chilling about diatribes like Ms Chesler's here is that she objects so much to religious extremism in the form of Islamic terrorism but aligns herself with the religious right in this country which would like nothing more than to bring a Christo-fascism to America. Pat Robertson has [...]
19296 94 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:49:33 EST386_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/16/2005 7:56:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:
What amazes me more is the belief in some quarters that empowering the populations of the Arab and Muslim states of the Middle East will produce anything like Jeffersonian democracies, or that the resulting regimes will necessarily be predisposed to befriend the West. [...]
19391 103 62_Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 17 Nov 2005 23:16:07 -0800566_iso-8859-1 I have stayed out of this for a reason- and I pray that some intellectual out there whom I respect can explain. Out of deference to the values with which we all grew up, I doubt anyone on this list is a racist, nor do they believe in their heart and mind that every Muslim, Arab, Chirstian,or European is evil, inordinantly (?) hate Jews, or can be, in truth, clumped into broad generalizations which eventually have no meaning or sound racist. In today's world, a "good Christian, Muslim, or even "Jew" boils down really to being a good human being [...]
19495 44 9_For Elihu12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Nov 2005 09:34:57 -0800518_iso-8859-1 Hi- and Shabbat Shalom!- I need your phone number- so could you email it to me?--Thanks- susie
--------------------------------- Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.
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19540 68 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 18 Nov 2005 10:01:45 -0800343_us-ascii Sue wrote: SO this is my quandry...with all the lessons we are to learn from the concept of "Lashon haRa"- how do we compensate when what we say or "print" or read is "true"--and how so we avoid prejudice when an evil or bad concept is true. (an extreme example is: Hitler is an evil man and the world should watch out for him). [...]
19609 67 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 18 Nov 2005 12:38:52 -0800525_iso-8859-1 According to "hilchot lashon hara"- the first rule is: not to denegrate or speake badly of anyone, even if it is true.There is some disagreement between Bet Hillel and Bet Shammai- but the problem remains. I bring this up because I find it reprehensible not to be able to "speak out" if we know someone is doing evil. The problem arises in our definitions of evil and truth, and harm to other people. Remember, in Judaism, as in other religions, "the word" is a powerful tool. See the movie, "Bee Season"-sue [...]
19677 865 28_Fw: How Jews got their Names11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:28:31 -0800565_iso-8859-1
For those of us that may have lost this since we first got it.. . . . . . .
Steve
Subject: Fw: How Jews got their Names
DON'T MISS THE POEM AT THE END . . . "YIDDISH~~~THE SECRET CODE"
How Jews got their Names.... Other than aristocrats and wealthy people Jews did not get surnames in Eastern Europe until the Napoleon years of the early 19th century. Most of the Jews from countries captured by Napoleon, Russia, Poland, and Germany were ordered to get surnames for tax purposes. [...]
20543 31 20_Hadary's Nominations12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:32:25 +0200503_us-ascii Haverot/im Following in the tradition (a tradition is something you do for at least the second time) I want to make my nominations for Habonet Correspondent of the year. This year there are awards to two haverim Jon and Richard whose perspectives are "somewhat" different. And in the haverot department to Sharon and Jesse whose perspectives are similar. All four have raised Habonet to within striking distance of a Pulitzer award. Honorable mention for strikes go to Batel and Avi Lyon. [...]
20575 119 24_Fw: Republic de la Norte11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 07:45:55 -0800323_iso-8859-1
For those of us that have been following "Aztlan" activities for the past few decades, this insanely anti-semitic tract will not surprise or dismay. Well, maybe dismay. The author goes on in another aticle on the home page to threaten a Latino rebellion here equal to the Muslim uprising in Europe. [...]
20695 70 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:28:21 -0800487_iso-8859-1 Since this is a democratic organization- I would like to nominate Steve Klein as contributor of the year. WHile he may not have written everything he has posted, he certainly has helped wake us up. Steve's contributions have stirred controversy and exhibited a caring for our opinions, kept us up to date on issues we may not have ever noticed in the news. Soemtimes I admit I delete things without reading them, but many times, I truly enjoy Steve's postings...Sue(sie) [...]
20766 63 25_Re: Fw: important article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:41:57 -0800606_iso-8859-1 A comment on the out-of-hand dismissal of Oriana Fallaci; I am surprised her name was not immediately recognised. She is a brilliant and compassionate woman who has been severely persecuted for standing up against forces we are only awakening to, and against authorities too intimidated to do other than what Richard described. I would implore Richard and others to access her articles before they so easily dismiss someone because they lost their suit in court. Millions of Jews lost in Nazi courts. Jesus lost in Pilate's court. Joan of Arc lost in a Paris court. What in the world would [...]
20830 62 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:48:56 -0800471_iso-8859-1 Amnon
I often can't tell when you are writing pen-in-cheek. Was this one of those times?
If not, why did you stop at such a small number at the top? I think some of the rest of us would be curious to see what our grades are. The rankings do not have to be exact, and nobody will expect that. Which of us are the worst, or most need improvement? Which of us will never meet your standards? What a great effort-saving idea for the rest of us. [...]
20893 111 25_Re: Fw: important article12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 08:49:02 -0800629_iso-8859-1 Steve is correct. I can't remember exactly when, perhaps a year or more, but her outspokenness was very brave and brilliant...her articles had been covered in the world press, TV- inlcuding the Jewish press. Sue
--- Steve Klein wrote:
> A comment on the out-of-hand dismissal of Oriana > Fallaci; I am surprised > her name was not immediately recognised. She is a > brilliant and > compassionate woman who has been severely persecuted > for standing up against > forces we are only awakening to, and against > authorities too intimidated to > do other than what Richard [...]
21005 96 25_Re: Fw: important article0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:52:42 +0000624_- Perhaps my writing is unclear, or your reading is, but I said that the suit against Oriana Fallaci was dismissed, that the Muslims that sued her lost.
-------------- Original message --------------
> A comment on the out-of-hand dismissal of Oriana Fallaci; I am surprised > her name was not immediately recognised. She is a brilliant and > compassionate woman who has been severely persecuted for standing up against > forces we are only awakening to, and against authorities too intimidated to > do other than what Richard described. I would implore Richard and others to > access her articles before [...]
21102 142 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 19:11:09 +0200467_us-ascii
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21245 130 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 17:30:25 +0000484_- I don't understand the connection between the first part and second part of this post. One can insist that convoys going through one's country be searched without insisting that all the people in a certain group are anything.
I also don't understand how the US can force Israel to do anything? We have been told over and over again on this list that the US gets more out of its relationship with Israel than Israel does so how is the US forcing Israel into this policy? [...]
21376 56 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 10:58:14 -0800416_us-ascii Not sure if I should be honored or not, as "strikes" could be for "strike out" as in baseball, or for the postings about strikes.
Writing in from the bleachers, Batel
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadary Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:32 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Hadary's Nominations [...]
21433 56 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 21:39:26 +0200423_US-ASCII Thank you Amnon, that's very kind of you. You make me optimistic about my pessimism.
All financial proceeds should be forwarded to the Scooter Libby defense fund.
Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of amnon hadary Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 5:32 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Hadary's Nominations [...]
21490 136 25_Re: Fw: important article11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:46:58 -0500342_iso-8859-1 Actually Steve is exactly incorrect.
Richard stated that the case AGAINST her was dismissed. Steve (mis)read that to mean that Richard was somehow dismissing her writing because she had lost a case in court. Leaves me once again shaking my head and wondering what exactly Steve is getting from other articles he reads. [...]
21627 91 24_Fw: Hadary's Nominations11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 15:47:45 -0500657_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: Hadary's Nominations
> Glad to see an honoree rising in defense of perjury and false statements. > > Bucking for an appointment to the administration that brought honor back > to the White House Jon? :-) > > Shabbat Shalom, > > Noam (Sour Grapes) Stopak > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jon Baum" > To: > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 2:39 PM > Subject: Re: Hadary's Nominations > > >> Thank you Amnon, that's very [...]
21719 116 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 23:26:08 +0200522_US-ASCII No, just trying to get a rise out of someone.
Jon (Better luck next year) Baum
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 10:48 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: Hadary's Nominations
----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 3:43 PM Subject: Re: Hadary's Nominations [...]
21836 96 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 19 Nov 2005 16:27:43 -0800617_iso-8859-1 I would put you right up there with the best of them, Batel (and I am not being cynical-I mean it)...sue
--- Batel Libes wrote:
> Not sure if I should be honored or not, as "strikes" > could be for > "strike out" as in baseball, or for the postings > about strikes. > > Writing in from the bleachers, Batel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh > [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] > On Behalf Of amnon hadary > Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 7:32 AM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: Hadary's Nominations > > Haverot/im [...]
21933 173 12_I'm so high!12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 00:09:16 -0800369_iso-8859-1 I just returned form an Idan Reichal concert held at the Kodak Theater here in Hollywood- the home of the Academy Awards. The place was packed; the joint rocked! And I just want to say that anyone who has a chance to experience this amazingly talented group of young musicians should grab the chance and go....WOW! ( and it was my second time!)...- sue [...]
22107 49 23_Their Children and Ours12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 12:10:24 +0200623_us-ascii In Sachki Sachki, Tchernichovski raised our humanistic flag. A generation later Weiseltier played counterpoint with world the weary lament of poet/educators. Does this add anything to the recent thread of accepting that Ishmael is my brother? Amnon
Meir Wieseltier It's hard to teach a child
Slowly slowly, children learn to hate. It takes them lots of time, many years at school, to teach a child to hate is no simple task. Every teacher knows how the love in them refuses to melt, starts to crumble, leaves an insipid taste in the preaching mouth. Sometimes a child learns to bear his [...]
22157 29 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:32:25 +0200337_us-ascii Batel, you wrote:
>Not sure if I should be honored or not, as "strikes" could be for >"strike out" as in baseball, or for the postings about strikes. > >Writing in from the bleachers, Batel
You don't preach from the "bull" pen and you play a heads up game. So, wherever you sit in the bleachers, enjoy. Amnon [...]
22187 167 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 18:14:00 +0200467_us-ascii
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22355 176 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 08:30:02 -0800544_iso-8859-1 Dear Heidi- I believe, and I may be naive and I am not a sociologist, that most cultures in the world, including African, Asian and non-western, have some kind of social mores in which there is reverence for life. I was not talking about radical, splinter groups whose main goal is to eradicate those who don't believe as they do, but rather as a broad "brush stroke" of humanity which, I beleive, encompasses reverence for life and respect for each other as human beings. That is what I meant as being a "good" anything. - sue [...]
22532 209 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:04:34 +0200344_us-ascii Dear Sue- Why do you believe this? I see plenty of evidence that most kinds of peoples don't much like other kinds of people. Maybe you are right; but what if you are wrong? What, then, for the future of our kind? (Be it people who do respect other humans or as Jews or as Habo-grads or however people on the list identify) Heidi [...]
22742 216 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 18:32:23 +0000294_- Which kind are we? Or, if you don't want to be associated with me, what kind are you. Are you one of those people that don't like other kinds of people? Personally I don't like tall people and am starting to have questions about ex-Philadelphians too. (City of brotherly love!! My ass.) [...]
22959 65 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 14:14:01 -0500361_iso-8859-1 Hey Richard, I'm one of those kind of people who don't much like your ass. Or Baltimorons - Charm City? Pffft!!! :-)
Heidi - what if you are wrong? Do we build a world that is full of suspicion and hate for "the other"?
Maybe Ronald Reagan had it right when he said "trust, but verify". Probably heading off on the Laffer curve... [...]
23025 88 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 21:58:12 +0200551_us-ascii Noam, if you're favorably quoting Ronald Reagan then there's hope for us all.
Proudly Ex-Philadelphian (and 5'11"),
Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:14 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth
Hey Richard, I'm one of those kind of people who don't much like your ass. Or Baltimorons - Charm City? Pffft!!! :-) [...]
23114 102 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 22:34:04 +0200520_us-ascii Noam- in all seriousness, I don't have a good answer for you. I have been thinking a lot about the subject and I don't know what alternatives there are. If life is full of suspicion and hate is it not worth living? Perhaps a case can be made for that while sitting around drinking tequila (or whatever is your poison) but not while facing the gun. And that is where I am sitting and I believe that you will be there in the not too distant future if things don't change. I think the only thing we can do is [...]
23217 46 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 15:23:21 -0800419_us-ascii The bleachers in the somewhat new S.F. ballpark have a killer view and get to catch Barry's hits. What fun. They also get the most sun, an important factor in fogy S.F., though we are currently experiencing an amazing heat wave.
Batel
-----Original Message----- From: amnon hadary Sent: Nov 20, 2005 6:32 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Hadary's Nominations [...]
23264 93 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:19:52 -0500363_iso-8859-1 Hi Heidi,
Thanks for the serious answer. I'll try to return the favor.
I don't think there are a lot of good answers today, and certainly not simple, binary, black and white answers. I don't think anyone here is saying that we should not defend ourselves when attacked (or bogus claims of WMD notwithstanding, about to be attacked). [...]
23358 239 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:57:15 -0800528_iso-8859-1 I have to believe that this is true- or there is nothing to hope for. The future of this planet is a global one; the world is shrinking; we have to care and hope...sue
--- Sheldon and Heidi wrote:
> Dear Sue- > Why do you believe this? > I see plenty of evidence that most kinds of peoples > don't much like other > kinds of people. > Maybe you are right; but what if you are wrong? > What, then, for the future > of our kind? (Be it people who do > respect other humans or [...]
23598 234 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 16:58:19 -0800541_iso-8859-1 Richard- is that question to me or to Heidi?--sue
--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:
> Which kind are we? Or, if you don't want to be > associated with me, what kind are you. Are you one > of those people that don't like other kinds of > people? Personally I don't like tall people and am > starting to have questions about ex-Philadelphians > too. (City of brotherly love!! My ass.) > > > > Dear Sue- > > Why do you believe this? > > I see plenty of evidence that most kinds of > peoples don't much like other [...]
23833 54 11_Ray Scudero11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 19:08:17 -0600363_us-ascii Larry Rosenfeld forwarded this to the Israel Folk Community list. It was originally on the GalilNoticeBoard.
-----------------
The condition of our group member, Ray Scudero, who has been battling brain cancer for three years has weakened, so please all of you who pray- keep Ray in your prayers- Please pray for Ariel David Ben Sara. [...]
23888 243 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:05:26 +0200609_windows-1255 What a relief - maybe I'm ex-Phila but I'm only 5'2" and 1/2 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 8:32 PM Subject: Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth
> Which kind are we? Or, if you don't want to be associated with me, what > kind are you. Are you one of those people that don't like other kinds of > people? Personally I don't like tall people and am starting to have > questions about ex-Philadelphians too. (City of brotherly love!! My ass.) > > >> Dear Sue- [...]
24132 98 18_Request from Brian11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:15:11 -0800502_us-ascii Hi Brian,
Please contact me directly, I want to forward you something, but I can't find your address. Thanks, Batel
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24231 169 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:40:00 +0200325_iso-8859-1 Noam, wow. Many thoughts here. (I am not being facetious. Althought the comment about drinking tequila actually referred to my days in the movement. Admittedly there was more a verbal high than one from tequila but the two go together well.) (Which is not to denigrate the value of the movement - yesh výesh) [...]
24401 191 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 12:47:14 +0200586_iso-8859-1 I possibly got a little carried away - length wise Heidi
At 12:40 21/11/2005, you wrote: >Noam, wow. Many thoughts here. (I am not being facetious. Althought the >comment about drinking tequila actually >referred to my days in the movement. Admittedly there was more a verbal >high than one from tequila but the two go together well.) >(Which is not to denigrate the value of the movement - yesh výesh) > >THe issue I think we are debating is a much more sublte one than what to >do if attacked or threatened. Partly it is about >what is threatening. The [...]
24593 64 12_Sam's Awards0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 07:37:52 EST500_US-ASCII Amnon has made his awards. Now I would like to make mine for the Habonet correspondent of this century so far. My award goes to Rozzie Barland of Wisconsin. Her most recent post about urban Kibbutzim is one of only many ways she has enriched our lives. Rozzie does not create huge streams of discussion. She just has a knack for finding truly interesting things to share. Congratulations Rozzie. Unfortunately there is not reward ceremony just a tip of the hat for enriching our lives. [...]
24658 59 16_For our Israelis13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:28:06 -0500469_us-ascii Dear Jon, Pearl, Jessie, et al,
So tell us what people are saying and what you are thinking about all the political shifts in Israel.
Warmly, Judy
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24718 116 20_Re: For our Israelis8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 16:45:06 +0200385_US-ASCII Well, Judy, I won't pretend that I know what's going to happen but my initial reaction was "Just what we need. Another political party."
Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 3:28 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: For our Israelis [...]
24835 43 24_Re: Hadary's Nominations0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 11:35:04 EST485_US-ASCII Thank you Amnon for the honorable mention .. but more importantly, thank you for what you have taught all of us. I feel fortunate to count you as both a teacher and friend. Avi
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24879 66 38_Now for something completely different8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:48:49 +0200489_US-ASCII Apropos of nothing, if you are interested in ancient Egypt, you might enjoy this:
http://www.mos.org/quest/et/
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24946 263 25_Re: Fw: important article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:16:01 -0800440_iso-8859-1 Richard
My apologies. You are right and I misread. No excuses.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:52 AM Subject: Re: Fw: important article
Perhaps my writing is unclear, or your reading is, but I said that the suit against Oriana Fallaci was dismissed, that the Muslims that sued her lost. [...]
25210 138 51_Re: hermeneutical confusion - Europe got Muslims...0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:32:43 -0800485_us-ascii This thread seems to be dying out, but I just wanted to attempt a final clarification. When I said that I think Muslims want to live their lives like everybody else (if that is, in fact what I said -- I don't have the original message), what I meant was that, like everyone else, Muslims want to live their lives. I try to write clearly, and it is a continual source of wonder how differently someone can interpret words on a screen from the meaning the author intended. [...]
25349 562 29_The Hadary Lashon HaRa Awards0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:38:26 -0800488_us-ascii Jesse- Are we sisters separated at birth? I'm 5'1" and 1/2 !
And lest anyone out there misunderstand the subject line of this post (god forbid), this is a joining of the Hadary Awards thread and the Lashon HaRa thread. So lighten up!
Sharon
Jessica Bonn Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 11/20/2005 11:05 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...]
25912 1857 21_From the New Republic8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:52:57 +0200524_windows-1258
A very interesting article from The New Republic on the image of America in France
FRANCE'S FAILURES, HATREDS, AND SIGNS OF A NEW LOOK AT AMERICA. The Anti-Anti-Americans by Paul Berman Post date: 11.21.05 Issue date: 11.28.05 The American Enemy: The History of French Anti-Americanism by Philippe Roger Translated by Sharon Bowman (University of Chicago Press, 518 pp., $35) Click here to buy this book [...]
27770 201 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:48:07 +0200637_ISO-8859-1 Is there really an argument? Could we solve it by simply sticking to wording of type: "THOSEMuslims who..."; THOSE mosques in the US THAT Noam - surely you agree that such Muslims exist, in frightening numbers, if not proportions. Heidi, as for your closing statement, I would put it: "We are hoping for the best and hoping we are assuming the worst" (since in fact, we may be assuming the actual state of things) Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sheldon and Heidi" To: Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 12:40 PM Subject: Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, [...]
27972 168 20_Re: For our Israelis13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:46:35 -0500584_iso-8859-1 MessageAs far as I can read or understand the situation, this is not about political parties per se. It is about strong defense personalities that can finish the great job initiated by Sharon and Peres in the Gaza dismantle/withdrawal operation. For it to be as successful as it was it needed a strong leader, Sharon, and a skilled and shrewd politician and statesman - Peres. It was only the cooperation of these two forces that brought such a delicate and dangerous operation to a happy ending. Now the job needs to be finished, completed in the West Bank, and they [...]
28141 87 11_Yuval First0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:56:04 EST491_US-ASCII
In a message dated 11/21/2005 5:47:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:
am personally very heartened by Peretz's election as the new Labor head, and this event was crucial in advancing the elections. But at this point in time and in what concerns the upcoming March elections I am seriously considering voting Sharon. If Peres is alive, thor willing, and is with Sharon in this in any way. shape, or form, I believe I am with Sharon too. [...]
28229 64 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:14:15 -0800516_us-ascii Heidi wrote: If life is full of suspicion and hate is it not worth living?...I think the only thing we can do is accept people for what they are but carry a big stick just in case they are not what we would like them to be.
If life is full of suspicion and hate, life is still worth living if one has hope that the future will be better. There is always plenty of suspicion and hate around; each person has to decide how much of their life that takes up and how hopeful they are for the future. [...]
28294 122 15_Re: Yuval First0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:15:56 -0500589_us-ascii I have to say that I too was surrpised that the Habonet community wasn't interested in discussing this potentially historic election. Until Judy opened up the topic, I thought it might pass this forum by.
In any case, I have a very different take than Yuval on this subject. There is a possibility that this will shape up as the first Israeli election about social issues. In early positioning Amir and his close associates are not emphasizing the differences between Labor and Sharon on the issue of peace; in fact, I heard Yuli Tamir speak about the "Road Map," not [...]
28417 264 15_Re: Yuval First13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:59:50 -0500598_iso-8859-1 I am pretty sure, if Peretz is the great leader I think he will be, he would agree you can't do anything about society and economy in the country before you end the occupation, get the encroaching settlers out of there, and establish the borders once and for all... I liked it very much when he just said that derech Oslo chaya venoshemet (Oslo is still alive and kicking) upon being elected. He seems to have the right priorities straight... ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 6:15 PM Subject: Re: [...]
28682 133 15_Re: Yuval First13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 19:55:27 -0500354_us-ascii If you've been reading all the election news, you are too busy to do anything else, including write to Habonet!
American politicians manufacture news during a campaign to get a little press. Today was the second time in about a week that I woke up to NPR's breaking Israeli election coverage. What US candidate would give for that.! [...]
28816 110 15_Re: Yuval First0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:05:00 EST460_US-ASCII
In a message dated 11/21/2005 7:56:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:
If you've been reading all the election news, you are too busy to do anything else, including write to Habonet!
American politicians manufacture news during a campaign to get a little press. Today was the second time in about a week that I woke up to NPR's breaking Israeli election coverage. What US candidate would give for that.! [...]
28927 66 23_Re: Yuval First-for Sam12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:13:03 -0800402_iso-8859-1 I don't find it "funny" or strange- this is a forum where we have many people with many different ideas, and who are living in many different places with different pressures, and who "visit" Habonet for input. The Israeli poltical scene will go on no matter what we have to say about it...I don't understand why you find it necessary to put people "down" in order to make a point...sue [...]
28994 46 54_Re: the truth and how we speak of it and respond to it11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:24:01 -0500340_iso-8859-1 Hi Heidi,
I don't think we disagree all that much.
Certainly the issue is more than what to do if attacked or threatened; my point there was in part preemptive since those who advocate moderation and dialog on this list are often accused of advocating laying down and dying, or aiding and abetting terrorists. [...]
29041 79 9_For Heidi12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:27:03 -0800598_iso-8859-1 I once had an intense discussion with a psychologist who was working with Downe's Syndrome children and who was finding it difficult to teach four-year-olds to use feeding utensils. The children were happy and content to use their hands and fingers, and had grown healthy and strong without being forced to use these utensils up until then. It may seem like a simple thing, but it was torturous for him and the discussion grew to include the concept of "accepted social mores."- etc. What I came away with was the fact that our society has certain expectations of correct behavior, [...]
29121 167 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:28:06 -0500373_iso-8859-1 Hi Sharon,
I agree with much that you write, but I wonder if you have any nominations for the role of trusted third party in this case?
Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth [...]
29289 177 15_Re: Yuval First11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 20:42:14 -0500607_iso-8859-1 Sadly Sam it may be because the Labor party mostly seems to fly beneath the radar of Israeli politics these days.
Perhaps he can lead them back to relevance.
On a slightly different note, someone, perhaps you, said (in what actually now that I think of it was an earlier reference to Peretz on this list) that until Peretz was elected Sharon didn't say anything about poverty. Finally caught up with some of my reading backlog last night which included Washington Post interviews with Sharon and Abbas from back in mid September. Sharon mentioned poverty as one of many issues [...]
29467 139 23_Re: Yuval First-for Sam11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:49:18 -0800540_US-ASCII Sam, we often agree on many things posted here, but this time, I'm not sure about your comment. My question to you: Why didn't you post something?
Batel
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29607 79 54_Re: the truth and how we speak of it and respond to it0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:20:44 +0000570_- Bethesda Maryland has no representation???
-------------- Original message --------------
> Hi Heidi, > > I don't think we disagree all that much. > > Certainly the issue is more than what to do if attacked or threatened; > my point there was in part preemptive since those who advocate > moderation and dialog on this list are often accused of advocating > laying down and dying, or aiding and abetting terrorists. > > I agree that one major question comes down to what we are to do in > the face of the insinuation of Saudi propaganda into the US [...]
29687 103 54_Re: the truth and how we speak of it and respond to it11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:26:36 -0500324_iso-8859-1 Ah, but I live in the district now. Perhaps you missed the wedding? I heard a rumor you were there, but never saw you... ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 9:20 PM Subject: Re: the truth and how we speak of it and respond to it [...]
29791 90 23_Re: Yuval First-for Sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:29:50 EST410_UTF-8 In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:49:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
Sam, we often agree on many things posted here, but this time, I’m not sure about your comment. My question to you: Why didn’t you post something?
Actually I did. I highlighted Yuval's comment. It was my way of saying, wow this is interesting. I have a funny way of saying things. [...]
29882 120 15_Re: Yuval First0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 21 Nov 2005 21:32:07 EST401_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:42:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:
Sadly Sam it may be because the Labor party mostly seems to fly beneath the radar of Israeli politics these days.
It is not under the radar right now.
Perhaps he can lead them back to relevance.
For this one shining moment in time he already has. [...]
30003 303 25_Re: Yuval First (Yavneh?)12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:48:25 +0200539_iso-8859-1 re Noam: In my opinion it's not worth much. Maybe a couple of votes.
The Peretz victory was the most refreshing bit of news here in a long time. I doubt it's the sign of a miracle cure from Israeli political myopia, but surely it shuffles the deck. Although he is a wildcard on many of the most pressing issues in Israeli society, I can see myself voting labor as one might buy a lottery ticket - perhaps with a bit more optimism. I was also struck by the lack of comment on Peretz in Habonet, but was so distracted [...]
30307 57 14_Sharon's youth13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:43:12 -0500549_us-ascii In claiming that Sharon's economic/social outlook is not anywhere near Bibi's and explaining his affinity for Peres, a friend told me that Sharon started life as a Labor Zionist, not in Herut or Betar, etc. Is any of this true??
Judy
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30365 110 18_Re: Sharon's youth0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 06:59:22 -0500351_us-ascii I can't quote the details of his youth, but I believe it is true that he grew up in a Mapai household. His introduction to Herut (and the Liberal Party for that matter) was in 1977 when he was the outside catalyst for the formation of the Likud Party. I think it is fair to say that Sharon has no defined Friedmanesque economic outlook. [...]
30476 35 19_who is Amir Peretz?15_Schwartz Family23_arava_eilat@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:01:45 +0200582_windows-1255 Please excuse my ignorance. Living in Eilat makes me the one who lives furthest from the State of Israel. Who is Amir Peretz? Where was he as the Manpower agencies grew and exploited both foreign and local laborers. Where was he as the all of the foreign workers entered Israel and drove the value of labor so far down? Where was he when the foreign workers were housed in chicken coops with the chickens? Where was he when their passports were taken and there wages withheld? Where was he as the Immigration police hunted the invited and employed foreigners like [...]
30512 140 18_Re: Sharon's youth8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:10:49 +0200442_us-ascii Judy,
Ariel Sharon was born and raised in Kfar Malal, a moshav but he joined the Haganah at the age of 14 in 1938 and was in military service until 1972. There's always been a sneaking suspicion in Herut and the Likud, which he hoped found, that he had a strong emotional tie to the cooperative agricultural wing of the Labor Zionist movement. I think saying that he "started life as a Labor Zionist" is an exaggeration. [...]
30653 86 34_Amir Peretz- another false Messiah13_Moshe Sheskin23_moshe.sheskin@GMAIL.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 14:42:44 +0200561_ISO-8859-1 It would appear that many of the chaverim living in the Golah believe that Amir Peretz is the 'Machiach" personified. While it is true that the polls have given him a great jump in popularity and the Labor party is now riding high, the polls are a reflection of what man people at this particular time. Generally, they mean nothing at all and the only poll that counts is the one just after the elections. The Labor party became a centrist party many years ago, lost their Socialism and their touch with the common man, quite some time ago. All [...]
30740 58 23_Re: who is Amir Peretz?0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:10:40 EST490_US-ASCII Ethan
Your question are very interesting and informative. They focus on issues in Israel that for many of us float beneath the radar. Thank you for your questions.
Sam
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30799 76 35_before you shop, consider this site11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:02:31 -0600379_ISO-8859-1 http://www.buyblue.org/
It seems like only yesterday, but it was almost one year ago that BuyBlue launched on December 1, 2004 with our Blue Christmas/ Chanukkah list of products and services, and the campaign contributions of the companies that make them.
If you are new to BuyBlue, you might be asking yourself what "Blue Christmas" is all about. [...]
30876 75 15_Re: Yuval First0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:14:21 EST609_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:42:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:
> Sharon mentioned poverty as one of many issues that needed to be addressed
Yes, one of many, and that's the problem. Like Peres, Sharon has been focusing on "long view" peace issues. In the meantime, the educational system is going to hell in a hand basket, soup kitchen clientele increase in numbers, crime and corruption seem to be more prominent and to some extent, Israelis on the left seem to feel there is no one on the Palestinian side - that is no one who controls the [...]
30952 29 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 20 Nov 2005 to 21 Nov 2005 (#2005-322)12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:03:27 +0200463_us-ascii Avi my friend. One doesn't thank someone for performing a mitzvah because the virtue of a duty done is it's own reward. (as in Pirkei Avot 4,2) I've enjoyed teaching so much that I didn't consider it a chore. But thank you Amnon
At 07:00 22/11/2005, you wrote: >Thank you Amnon for the honorable mention .. but more importantly, thank >you for what you have taught all of us. I feel fortunate to count you as >both a teacher and friend. >Avi [...]
30982 677 14_Jews in France8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:28:30 +0200649_US-ASCII Jewish schools with bullet-proof windows. Nice. From the National Post of Canada. There goes the neighborhood.
Jon
Barricaded in Paris
Mireille Silcoff National Post
Saturday, November 19, 2005
French Jews are leaving the country in ever-growing numbers, fleeing a wave of anti-Semitism. They are moving to Israel, the United States, and increasingly, Montreal -- where the mostly English-speaking Jewish community is preparing for its greatest demographic change in decades. In the first of three stories, Mireille Silcoff examines the fear in France that is driving the emigration. [...]
31660 111 38_Re: Amir Peretz- another false Messiah0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:44:53 -0800365_us-ascii I don't know what gives you the impression that anybody "out here" thinks Peretz is the machiach; I think people just see his victory as forward movement. And I would quibble with your assertion of which poll actually counts. Really the only one that counts is the one in the voting booth. Finally, as to feeling disenfranchised: welcome to the club. [...]
31772 202 15_Re: Yuval First0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:57:37 -0500434_us-ascii Yuval - this may disappoint you, but actually he sees a direct link between the social and economic situaton and peace. As far as I can see from speaking to him and Yuli Tamir, a close advisor, he has every intention of moving on both agendas.
Ken
-----Original Message----- From: Yuval Warshai To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:59:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Yuval First [...]
31975 182 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:59:51 +0200467_us-ascii
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.5/177 - Release Date: 21/11/2005
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32158 152 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:02:30 -0800524_us-ascii Unfortunately, I do not have any nominations to proffer. South Africa? Viet Nam? Argentina? But I have long held the opinion that Israel and her neighbors (or more to the point, Jewish Israelis and their neighbors) need to have somebody else provide enough security so the parties to the conflict can relax enough to start building trust together. It's a bootstrapping question--you need a certain amount of trust to put down your guns, and you need to put down your guns to actually move beyond the conflict. [...]
32311 207 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:27:52 -0800524_us-ascii If we approach the apparent "diversion of views between the West and Islam" as a situation in which "the West" has to triumph over "Islam" in order for there to be a peaceful future, then I think we have very little chance of success (meaning a peaceful future). IMHO, the ony chance any of us (by this I mean the earth and everything on it) have for a peaceful future is to strive for what is beyond "the West" and "Islam." We ("the West") are not going to win, neither do we want to lose. So we have to find [...]
32519 104 76_For Heidi-Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:34:34 -0800590_iso-8859-1 Heidi- Firstly- let me tell you that here in LA there is a huge Muslim population, with many "Islamic Centers" sprinkled throughout the area. At one time, I had been in the process of organizing a "peace concert" which would have involved the Jewish/Israeli community and the Islamic centers. They were very excited about working together to show a united front on this issue....as a matter of fact, there was no hesitation or problems at all, which was something we were not expecting. Also, this involved radio and Tv personalities. I believe, and I am sure part of it is [...]
32624 573 19_Fw: DidJew know????11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 09:33:12 -0800634_iso-8859-1
I have checked out NONE of this on Snopes.
Steve
DidJew Know? By Marnie Winston-Macauley
http://www.JewishWorldReview.com
YIPPIE-AI-OY The first silent screen cowboy star was a Jew! Max Aronson (also known as Gilbert M. Anderson) from Louisiana, started as a screenwriter and director, then starred in hundreds of westerns from 1910 to 1915, as "Bronco Billy!" Aronson often wrote the scripts for these early short films. He retired in 1920, but was honored with a special Academy Award in 1958. He also made a cameo appearance in The Bounty Killer in 1965. [...]
33198 376 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:36:02 +0200726_US-ASCII Somebody else? Like who? No thanks.
Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:03 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth
Unfortunately, I do not have any nominations to proffer. South Africa? Viet Nam? Argentina? But I have long held the opinion that Israel and her neighbors (or more to the point, Jewish Israelis and their neighbors) need to have somebody else provide enough security so the parties to the conflict can relax enough to start building trust together. It's a [...]
33575 217 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 17:39:58 +0000332_- There is a basic flaw in your logic Heidi. If there is a global war between Islam and "the West" then why would it be in "the West's" interest to help Israel. From a global war perspective, how could Israel be viewed as anything but a tiny outpost deep inside enemy territory not worth the time, effort or expense to defend. [...]
33793 199 15_Re: Yuval First13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:53:20 -0800472_iso-8859-1 Ken,
The more the merrier, as they say. If he can move on both fronts at the same time, tfahdel as they say too (over there, of course, not here...). But for every leader and for every time there must be one overriding priority. Between the two, at this point in time, I wonder which one is his (or yours, or mine, for that matter). I guess I was just using the opportunity to declare mine, at least, in public. Thanks for the heads up, ___ |Y| ^^^ [...]
33993 232 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:29:29 -0800306_us-ascii I suggested 3 countries that might possibly be viewed as not having bias towards one side or the other and that have some experience with conflict reconciliation. But in answer to Noam's question, I said I don't have anybody to nominate for 3rd Party--that's too political a question for me. [...]
34226 599 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:26:18 +0200407_US-ASCII Sorry Sharon, I don't pretend to know how to achieve peace in the Middle East. Believe me, if I knew I would let everyone in on it. I was responding to your suggestion that we could trust any third party to safeguard our security. When the lion lays down with the lamb, I want to be the lion. Please excuse me for saying so but the idea is ludicrous and no Israeli government would go for it. [...]
34826 37 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 18:33:39 -0500643_iso-8859-1 Hi Richard,
Sometimes an outpost deep inside enemy territory can be very useful.
Noam
----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 12:39 PM Subject: Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth
> There is a basic flaw in your logic Heidi. If there is a global war > between Islam and "the West" then why would it be in "the West's" interest > to help Israel. From a global war perspective, how could Israel be viewed > as anything but a tiny outpost deep inside enemy territory not worth the > [...]
34864 266 15_Re: Yuval First0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:36:23 -0500369_us-ascii I know that you and I agree on both issues, peace and economic issues, but I think what is interesting is the overt linkage that Peretz makes - spending on illegal (and for that matter legal) settlements directly impacts lower and middle class Israelis, so the Likud and Shas voters should consider that point. Time will tell whether it "speaks to them." [...]
35131 32 19_Re: DidJew know????12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 19:49:58 -0500422_ISO-8859-1 > *DidJew Know?* > > *GO FIGURE! VITAL HEBREW BIBLE STATS* > > * The twenty-first verse of the seventh chapter of Ezra contains all > the letters in the English alphabet, except "J."
I'm absolutely astonished to learn that the book of Ezra in the Hebrew Bible contains *any* letters in the English alphabet, let alone 25 of them -- but if one of Steve's correspondents says so, it must be true. ;-) [...]
35164 45 19_Re: DidJew know????11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:09:57 -0500650_iso-8859-1 I wonder which translation? Perhaps the one by that famous Jew King James?
You must be bewildered or you wouldn't life in our fair city,
Noam
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:49 PM Subject: Re: DidJew know????
>> *DidJew Know?* >> >> *GO FIGURE! VITAL HEBREW BIBLE STATS* >> >> * The twenty-first verse of the seventh chapter of Ezra contains all >> the letters in the English alphabet, except "J." > > I'm absolutely astonished to learn that the book of Ezra in the Hebrew > Bible contains *any* [...]
35210 97 19_Re: DidJew know????0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:22:12 EST351_US-ASCII
In a message dated 11/22/05 5:10:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:
I'm absolutely astonished to learn that the book of Ezra in the Hebrew > Bible contains *any* letters in the English alphabet, let alone 25 of > them -- but if one of Steve's correspondents says so, it must be true. ;-) > [...]
35308 579 15_Re: Yuval First13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:44:45 -0500570_iso-8859-1 I like your analysis of his probable strategy. The only big problem I see for him is in your closing line. I am declared, certified, unrequited dove. In fact, after the doomed mahapach elections of 1977 thar brought Begin and Likud for the first time to power I have never again voted avoda, always to the left of it (sheli-meretz, etc). And yet, as I said in the first email that actually started this thread, because of the sheer calculation of who can and who cannot finish the job on the occupied West Bank, I am seriously considering voting Sharon. [...]
35888 29 21_Israel Radio Tool Bar11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 22 Nov 2005 20:55:29 -0600648_us-ascii You may enjoy this. It is a tool bar which lets you listen to live radio stations from Israel. It is NOT MAC compatible, however.
http://israelradio.ourtoolbar.com/
________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mjds.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
35918 559 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:11:36 +0200660_iso-8859-1 Sharon, Do you actually take this idea seriously? The essence of Israeli sovereignty is perceived control over the state's physical destiny. Israel has never even really accepted a diplomatic broker, let alone a military broker. The idea of peace-keeping forces, non-political international courts, and neutral mediators is a faraway dream. (I am reminded of an experience in the early 90s testifying in Cairo to a UN human rights court about Israeli house demolition, and being so horrified by the latent anti-Semitism that I found myself reframing the facts into as positive and apologetic tone as intellectual honesty would allow). Although [...]
36478 58 25_Re: Israel Radio Tool Bar12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 09:25:07 +0200507_iso-8859-1 Wonderful, but missing my two favorite stations at the beginning of the FM dial - 88 FM (which has gotten much press over a threatened closure; excellent everything including jazz) and 88.8 - Kol Yisrael b'Aravit (or any other Arabic-language station, for that matter); and of course there's the futuristic "Radio All for Peace - 107.2 - joint Jewish/Arab. At least the toolbar features "Radio Kol Haemet" - I've been looking for that my whole life. Warmly (do I sound like Gelman?), Jessie [...]
36537 34 10_Have A Cow12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:56:52 +0200688_us-ascii Jesse, Thanks for joining the hilarity (as in Clinton.) But as a former worker in Gesher Haziv's reffet, I'm disturbed by the implied aberration of HAVING A COW. Amnon
>see >http://www.stonyfield.com/HaveACow/ >for a creative idea of how to have your own livestock or human children >sponsored. In short, I'm ready to relinquish all this undeserved and >non-existent fame and fortune (and the dramatic changes it's meant for me >and my family) for a life membership in Habonim (I thought we were a >non-competitive movement) - contributions to this listserv are often the >most alive, varied funny, intelligent and ... Habonimdik [...]
36572 56 14_Re: Have A Cow12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:26:20 +0200368_iso-8859-1 Well, then, Amnon, let's stick with to 'have a bird' (though I worked at GH in artificial turkey insemination, and recoil at the prospect of all related fowl associations). J(ie)B
----- Original Message ----- From: "amnon hadary" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:56 AM Subject: Have A Cow [...]
36629 25 58_Marshmallow treats stopped from leaving Gaza - Yahoo! News10_Ezra Salop16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:00:33 -0500519_ISO-8859-1 Dear Chevreh,
With all the political changes to follow, you may have missed this breaking news out of Israel.
Hag samayach! Judy http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051121/od_nm/mideast_marshmallows_dc
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36655 104 8_Fw: Wow!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:03:20 -0800442_iso-8859-1
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 7:02 AM Subject: Wow!
Anytime the Russians come up with a weapon that could change the rules, it is of interest to us. I think this airplane may be one of those rule-changers. It is only a video of the plane going through its paces, so if that kind of thing is not your cup of tea, don't waste your time. [...]
36760 48 62_Re: Marshmallow treats stopped from leaving Gaza - Yahoo! News8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:39:56 +0200502_us-ascii Damn! Fake kosher Kremebos. That's pretty low. As a guy who worked with elementary school kids for 7 years, I know the importance of Kremebos in the growth and development of young Israelis. This is casus belli!
Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Ezra Salop Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 5:01 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Marshmallow treats stopped from leaving Gaza - Yahoo! News [...]
36809 102 14_Re: Have A Cow12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:43:27 -0800620_iso-8859-1 At this turkey time in America- i actually appreciate the "have a bird"--in reverence to the Schlossbergs and the first time I ever killed a rat with my own hands...sue
--- Jessica Bonn wrote:
> Well, then, Amnon, let's stick with to 'have a bird' > (though I worked at GH > in artificial turkey insemination, and recoil at the > prospect of all related > fowl associations). > J(ie)B > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "amnon hadary" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2005 10:56 AM > Subject: Have A Cow > > [...]
36912 179 19_Re: DidJew know????11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 07:42:08 -0800401_iso-8859-1 When I sent this to you, I plainly and clearly said I checked NONE of it out. That means that if you view it as other than curious entertainment, there is something really wrong. Stuff that I know as reasonably true is stuff I will stand behind. I will take it upon myself to check out what the Ezra 7/21 reference is. Someone else can search the 1920 business. We can meet back here. [...]
37092 351 66_Re: Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 08:43:05 -0800606_us-ascii Yes, I actually take this idea seriously. But you seriously misunderstand the idea if you believe that it involves "casting aside our arms." The experience you related about the UN Human Rights court is a good illustration of the importance of having a truly neutral 3rd party. The court you describe was not neutral, so you were not able to let down your defenses and speak plainly. I am NOT suggesting that some other entity take control over Israel's physical security. I am suggesting that a certain level of disengagement between the parties in conflict is necessary. There is virtually [...]
37444 49 62_Re: Marshmallow treats stopped from leaving Gaza - Yahoo! News8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 19:45:47 +0200335_us-ascii It is also a little known fact that one can tell that autumn has arrived in Israel when they start selling Kremebos in the stores because they are too soft and sticky to stand up to the summer heat. That's what we have instead of the leaves changing colors.
See: http://pics.livejournal.com/shari/gallery/000056t7 [...]
37494 35 19_Re: DidJew know????12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 13:52:37 -0500343_ISO-8859-1 Steve,
My use of the winking smilie ;-) was intended to indicate that I was pulling your leg.
Your message inspired me to pull my JPS translation of the Tanakh off the shelf and, in fact, Ezra 7.21 does include every letter of the alphabet except "J".
To all the Americans on the list, Happy Thanksgiving, [...]
37530 62 19_Re: DidJew know????12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:12:43 +0200561_ISO-8859-1 Is that like the missing 'nun' in 'ashrei yoshvei veitekha?' Or perhaps - yes, there must be a kabbalistic significance to it. After all, j = 10 and 10 = yud, part of the ineffable Name. I'd also like to seize this gemmatriatic opportunity to point out that my father, who is otherwise an enlightened man, for years believed Mikhael Gorbachev to be the mashiach because he ended the cold war and his name began with M (I would have said 'prayed that he was mashiach' but my father claims to not believe in God... (just in mashiach??). (I wonder [...]
37593 65 19_Sicha for 6th Grade0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:13:52 EST576_US-ASCII My daughter Leora'a 6th grade class at the Hebrew Academy of Morris County (HAMC) was learning about the formation of unions in the US. Actually it was barely a mention in their social studies book. So my daughter volunteered me to talk to her class about unions. In order to prepare the kids I wrote the attached discussion guideline modeled on a program developed by the California Federation of Teachers. It was great fun. When one boy heard that the boss wouldn't pay overtime, even though it was against the law he shouted out, "Lets sue him!!!" Enjoy. Avi [...]
37659 115 23_Re: Sicha for 6th Grade13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 23 Nov 2005 22:35:35 -0500598_us-ascii Dear Avi-
Kol hakavod! But I didn't get an attachment.
Enjoy Thanksgiving. Judy
JLCAA@AOL.COM wrote:
> My daughter Leora'a 6th grade class at the Hebrew Academy of Morris > County (HAMC) was learning about the formation of unions in the US. > Actually it was barely a mention in their social studies book. So my > daughter volunteered me to talk to her class about unions. In order to > prepare the kids I wrote the attached discussion guideline modeled on > a program developed by the California Federation of Teachers. > It was great fun. > When one boy [...]
37775 35 15_Deus ex machina28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 24 Nov 2005 11:07:27 +0200631_iso-8859-1 Sharon,
I have been following your discussion about using third parties to resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict. I find myself in disagreement with just about every aspect of your proposal. There are two very basic reasons why I disagree with you. First, in my opinion, your solution neither identifies nor addresses the root cause of the conflict. Such a flaw cannot help but result in your proposal's failure. Second, your assumption that there exists third party states or organizations with no national or political interests in the Middle East is simply not valid. I would be happy to discuss these points [...]
37811 58 23_Jacob's Ladder Dec. 2-312_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:13:43 +0200560_windows-1255 To get off politics for a minute: I'm looking for a ride for 2 people from Jerusalem to Jacob's Ladder Folk Song Winter Festival in Nof Ginossar Dec. 2-3. Will share travel expenses. Any Habonudniks from my area going up? Thanks, Trudy 02-583-3855
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37870 52 27_Re: Jacob's Ladder Dec. 2-312_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 24 Nov 2005 16:44:49 -0800657_iso-8859-1 Trudy- contact sari sapir- if you need her number- email me- suz
--- Doug Greener wrote:
> To get off politics for a minute: > I'm looking for a ride for 2 people from Jerusalem > to Jacob's Ladder Folk Song Winter Festival in Nof > Ginossar Dec. 2-3. Will share travel expenses. > Any Habonudniks from my area going up? > Thanks, > Trudy > 02-583-3855 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online [...]
37923 247 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 22 Nov 2005 to 23 Nov 2005 (#2005-324)16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 24 Nov 2005 22:58:15 -0500394_- .Subject: Fw: I'm proud 2 be Jewish.....share w/ friends
My great friend Marv sent this along. Gregg the Iranians want 2 destroy Israel are they gonna cellphone the order in
SHITTY LITTLE COUNTRY The Middle East has been growing date palms for centuries. The average tree is about 18-20 feet tall and yields about 38 pounds of dates a year. [...]
38171 66 12_Our Twersky?8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:33:47 +0200484_us-ascii
David, is this you in this article? (scroll down)
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/644532.html
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38238 376 43_The little engine that can't/ Daniel Gordis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 05:39:15 -0600471_ISO-8859-1 After the holidays, everything will be renewed The "regular days" will be renewed and will return The air, the dust, the rain and the fire You, you too, will be renewed.
It's an optimistic view, this refrain from Naomi Shemer's popular song "Renewal." As is typical of her, and as was once typical of Israelis at large, it pulses with the aura of possibility, of more miracles still to come, of a future that shines brighter than any past we knew. [...]
38615 134 53_Looking for Jewish Diversity male (non-racist) rapper13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:06:23 +0200321_iso-8859-1 do we have any rappers on this list who could answer the lady's plea below. There are several well-connected musicians and relatives of musicians on habonet, so maybe even one of you can put her in the right direction with her rapper song?? or is this only an Israel-suitable song? shabbat shalom, -pearl [...]
38750 157 57_Re: Looking for Jewish Diversity male (non-racist) rapper8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 15:56:31 +0200639_us-ascii Pearl, is this for real? Shabbat Shalom, Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Pearl Skolnik Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 3:06 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Looking for Jewish Diversity male (non-racist) rapper
do we have any rappers on this list who could answer the lady's plea below. There are several well-connected musicians and relatives of musicians on habonet, so maybe even one of you can put her in the right direction with her rapper song?? or is this only an Israel-suitable song? shabbat shalom, -pearl [...]
38908 72 9_Fw: Memri11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:29:13 -0800628_iso-8859-1
This is the URL for the MEMRI article showing leaders of the Presbyterian Church cozying up to Hizbollah. It feels sort of like Chamberlain doing the same for Hitler. The part that eludes me is motivation. Anybody got ideas?
Steve
http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD103105
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38981 93 9_Activists11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 09:34:55 -0800586_iso-8859-1 Comments?
Steve
Arutz Sheva News Service http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com
HEVRON ARABS ASK JEWS FOR HELP IN BANISHING LEFTIST ACTIVISTS
Arab leaders in Hevron have contacted the city's Jewish leaders for help in getting rid of self-proclaimed anarchist volunteers who, they complain, are destroying their traditional way of life.
The anarchists, many of whom are members of the International Solidarity Movement, flock to flashpoints throughout Judea and Samaria, ostensibly to help PA Arabs contend with IDF closures [...]
39075 38 13_Jewish rapper0_15_emabear@AOL.COM31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 12:53:52 -0500452_us-ascii Didn't I read about Matisyahu being one of Forward's top 50 list on Habonet? why not try and contact him about this poem?
Shabbat Shalom
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39114 97 19_Sicha for 6th Grade0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:28:57 EST299_US-ASCII THE HAMC PIZZA COMPANY
You work at the HAMC Frozen Pizza Company where you work eight hours a day, five days a week. This is a big factory and the owner has worked hard to make the business a success. He makes a lot of money, lives in a big house and drives a really fancy car. [...]
39212 37 23_Re: Sicha for 6th Grade0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 14:29:32 EST399_US-ASCII I'll re-send as plain text.
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39250 338 19_Terror intelligence8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:21:51 +0200686_US-ASCII
From Stratfor ( http://www.stratfor.com/ )
Israel's Accurate Counterterrorism Intelligence On Nov. 25, Israel's National Security Council issued a terrorism alert to its citizens regarding an increased threat of kidnappings. The alert advises against travel to Arab countries and warns against accepting unsolicited business offers or invitations to impromptu meetings while abroad. The warning is based on what the government says is new, concrete information about threats of kidnappings targeting Israeli citizens abroad. Given Israel's track record in identifying terrorist threats before incidents occur, the Nov. 25 warning should be taken seriously. [...]
39589 101 29_Fw: link to a wonderful site!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Nov 2005 07:41:44 -0800736_iso-8859-1
Guys
This was forwarded to me, and it is what it says it is. Refreshing.
Enjoy.
Steve
Subject: link to a wonderful site!
Please visit this site: www.israelupclose.org
If you think it would be a valuable tool for friends and especially organizations, please pass it on.
The site does not accept donations.
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39691 118 50_Fw: Jihad: See how Buddhists are coping. Not easy.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Nov 2005 09:58:08 -0800437_UTF-8
This article is intended to reach only those that are interested in following the spreading ravages of extremist Islamism and their effect on the local populations. Admittedly, this isn't a problem as yet on our shores, and I hope it never becomes so, but the suffering of others should move us nonetheless. Still, if you are one of those theat "have heard enough of this stuff", I would recommend your passing it by. [...]
39810 105 16_Re: Our Twersky?0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:31:10 -0500578_us-ascii This is indeed "our" David Twersky!
-----Original Message----- From: Jon Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 08:33:47 +0200 Subject: Our Twersky?
David, is this you in this article? (scroll down) http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/644532.html
The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...]
39916 45 51_Article on The Habonim Workshop Currently in Israel0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Nov 2005 19:33:10 -0500511_us-ascii Nice story about our movement
http://jnonline.1upsoftware.com/main.asp?SectionID=23&subsectionID=58&articleID=234
Ken
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39962 2126 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 22 Nov 2005 to 23 Nov 2005 (#2005-324)8_stangold21_stangold@INTER.NET.IL31_Sun, 27 Nov 2005 17:38:05 +0200594_Windows-1252 ----- Original Message ----- From: "HABONET automatic digest system" To: Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2005 7:00 AM Subject: HABONET Digest - 22 Nov 2005 to 23 Nov 2005 (#2005-324)
> There are 15 messages totalling 1841 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Lashon HaRa, Muslims, Arabs, Christians, Europe, and the truth (2) > 2. Israel Radio Tool Bar > 3. Have A Cow (3) > 4. Marshmallow treats stopped from leaving Gaza - Yahoo! News (3) > 5. Fw: Wow! > 6. DidJew know???? (3) > 7. Sicha for 6th Grade [...]
42089 181 55_Re: Article on The Habonim Workshop Currently in Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 07:46:45 -0800540_iso-8859-1 To the Workshoppers of Netiv Ha Lamed Hey:
Please say "hello" for me. My name is Steve Klein (11th Workshop, 61-62), and I spent five good years on "Netiveleh", from 1975 to 1980. I worked mostly outside the kibbutz, but I put in large chunks of time in the "Madgera" (incubator), avocado orchards and Refet. Got some great stories. I also taught several groups of kids on the kibbutz. We came from the city as a booster group. I think the total was 25 families at the time. My adopting parents were Eitan and Hanah. [...]
42271 141 19_Re: Deus ex machina0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:00:46 -0800597_us-ascii What I have been writing about is a process for moving forward. I make no claim to be addressing the issues in the conflict, merely describing a process whereby the parties to the conflict can address the issues themselves. We live in an interconnected world, and so, to some extent, every state and organization has some interest in the Middle East. However, I believe (hope) that there is at least 1 party who could be "neutral enough" to bootstrap the talking that leads to the trust-building that leads to reconcilliation. The world has already waited and could be waiting quite [...]
42413 262 19_Re: Deus ex machina17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:46:40 +0200467_us-ascii
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date: 27/11/2005
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42676 2554 8_Workshop0_16_BERNSARA@AOL.COM29_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 13:18:45 EST718_UTF-8
Subject: Habonim
Writeup in the Detroit Jewish News, Friday Nov 25
Experiencing Israel: Three Detroit teens live out their progressive Zionist ideals
By Leah B. Stern Special to the Jewish News Jerusalem - Until a few months ago, Dov Lerman-Sinkoff, K’tanaw Schiff and Oren Brandvain were taking final exams at Detroit area high schools. Now they spend four hours a day picking peppers, learning Hebrew and playing with Israeli kindergartners. These three Detroit-area teens decided to defer admissions to top universities like Stanford and Massachusetts Institute of Technology to spend a year in Israel living on Kibbutz Netivah Halamed Heh, [...]
45231 271 19_Re: Deus ex machina0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 11:25:25 -0800473_us-ascii To suggest that the actions of the United States could be viewed as neutral is to miss the point of what I have been writing about. There is a huge difference between not acting in a manner that is biased towards Israel and acting in a neutral manner. One act does not define whether a party is neutral or biased, nor whether a party is perceived as neutral or biased. And in this case, perception is possibly more important than so-called objective reality. [...]
45503 307 19_Re: Deus ex machina0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:08:16 +0000538_- Heidi,
Your messages to Habonet are proof that it is often difficult to see what is really happening when you are too close to the events.
First of all if you think the US is unbiased and a neutral player in the conflict between Israel and the Palistinians (or, as you seem to imply, biased towards the Palistinians) you would seem to be delusional. I really don't feel like looking up the exact amonts, but the billions of dollars and billions in military equiptment supplied would seem to disprove that hypothosis. [...]
45811 418 19_Re: Deus ex machina17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:22:07 +0200467_us-ascii
No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/184 - Release Date: 27/11/2005
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46230 63 33_early israeli election propaganda12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:44:20 +0200405_windows-1255
www.o-i.co.il
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46294 172 19_Re: Deus ex machina12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 12:46:16 -0800568_iso-8859-1 To me, what is scary is the fact that it may be that, despite all of the "rhetoric"- the powers that be may be "oil-run."--I saw "Syriana" this weekend, and despite the disclaimers, it is a frightening display of some kind of "truth"-- it is well-known that oil companies and the government of the US are very "intertwined"- even to the degree that the CIA could possibly be "driven" to operate in a manner which is completely immoral and disgusting when it comes to dealing with its own operatives. Which is why I am hopeful that Israel is capable of [...]
46467 101 19_Re: Deus ex machina11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:17:09 -0500387_iso-8859-1 This has troubled me for a while now. Periodically we hear about archeological destruction, yet Israel, which is (at the moment) (supposed to be) sovereign in Jerusalem, apparently permits this. How can this be?
Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Sheldon and Heidi To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Deus ex machina [...]
46569 65 6_Greens8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:17:18 +0200492_us-ascii The new environmentalism: boycotting Israel. That'll help the planet.
http://www.gp.org/press/pr_2005_11_28.shtml
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46635 50 10_Re: Greens12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 01:14:27 -0800725_iso-8859-1 What a bunch of crap- I am writing to them..not that that will help..but they should know people know what they are pushing...great way to promote peace!-sue
--- Jon Baum wrote:
> The new environmentalism: boycotting Israel. That'll > help the planet. > > http://www.gp.org/press/pr_2005_11_28.shtml > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...]
46686 123 20_help for Druze women6_rdbaum23_rdbaum@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:14:19 +0200585_iso-8859-8-i Cabinet approves NIS 3m for Hurfeish sewing shop
The aid is designed to prevent the shop from closing and increasing unemployment in the Druze village.
Zeev Klein 29 Nov 05 12:50
The economic and social cabinet has approved NIS 1.5 million a year in aid for the sewing shop in the Druze community of Hurfeish for two more years. The aid will be granted according to the number of employees in the sewing shop and the amount of aid requested per employee per year. It was decided that total aid per employee per year would not exceed NIS 12,000 - [...]
46810 186 36_[QUAR] From Aliya with holiday cheer19_Aliya Cheskis-Cotel13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 03:49:14 -0500
46997 284 5_Syria8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:21:22 +0200526_us-ascii From Stratfor.com: (Stratfor Morning Intelligence Brief)
Being the son of a prominent political figure is no easy task. Once your old man croaks, you are left with the daunting task of proving to your armed forces, to your country and to the international community that you are not a weak leader, and that you are capable of filling daddy's shoes and leading the nation with confidence. Before obtaining this level of legitimacy, however, the aspiring politician's son must go through a rite of passage. [...]
47282 53 24_Re: help for Druze women13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:28:03 -0500407_us-ascii Who is RD Baum?
Judy
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47336 114 24_Re: help for Druze women8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:36:14 +0200647_us-ascii Dear Judy,
They're my parents. RD stands for Ruth and Dave.
Jon
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 5:28 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: help for Druze women
Who is RD Baum?
Judy
_____
The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies . [...]
47451 48 24_Re: help for Druze women12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 07:49:10 -0800537_iso-8859-1 Just FYI- Dave Baum was one of the heroes of Aliyah Bet- sue
--- Judith Gelman wrote:
> Who is RD Baum? > > Judy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...]
47500 51 18_PS about Dave Baum12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 12:14:05 -0800468_iso-8859-1 He served as second engineer on the ship the "Norsyd"- which became the aliyah bet ship the "Haganah"- sue
Judith Gelman wrote: Who is RD Baum?
Judy
--------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...]
47552 137 22_Re: PS about Dave Baum13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 17:29:17 -0500609_us-ascii All I meant was what is his/her first name and if they were related to Jon. Actually, now that I know RD are Ruth and Dave, I remember them from my teen years and all Mike's stories about his dad come back to me. Judy
Sue Liberman wrote:
> He served as second engineer on the ship the "Norsyd"- which became > the aliyah bet ship the "Haganah"- sue > > */Judith Gelman /* wrote: > > Who is RD Baum? > > Judy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > [...]
47690 41 19_Re: Deus ex machina11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 14:40:16 -0800599_iso-8859-1 Richard
One Israeli life was too much to have been snuffed out for the "Palestinian cause". One thousand Israeli lives is huge for our small country and our small people. You seem to be saying; "only" a thousand, and comparing the lives of the victims to the lives of the perpetrators. Yes, four thousand Arab lives were lost to a cause that had no merit, other than perpetuating an already-futile, self-destructive purpose. Their human losses are certainly lamentable. Just not in the same way. At least not to me. Sure, a human being is lost every time a terrorist explodes [...]
47732 48 19_Re: Deus ex machina0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:06:44 +0000556_- Would hate for facts to interfer with the way you like to patronize but, in fact, the figures I provided does not include the suicide bombers or even the targets of Israeli assassinations.
> Richard > > One Israeli life was too much to have been snuffed out for the "Palestinian > cause". One thousand Israeli lives is huge for our small country and our > small people. You seem to be saying; "only" a thousand, and comparing the > lives of the victims to the lives of the perpetrators. > Yes, four thousand Arab lives were lost to a [...]
47781 76 10_Desert Fox8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 06:56:11 +0200599_us-ascii Anyone out there looking for a really safe ride? Perfect for driving through North Philly. I can personally attest that the air conditioning works like a bastard (because of the NBC over-pressure system).
http://www.compositesworld.com/news/cwweekly/2005/November/cw110206
Jon
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47858 140 15_Deus ex Machina28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 15:20:09 +0200350_iso-8859-1 Sharon, you wrote:
"...We live in an interconnected world, and so, to some extent, every state and organization has some interest in the Middle East. However, I believe (hope) that there is at least 1 party who could be "neutral enough" to bootstrap the talking that leads to the trust-building that leads to reconcilliation." [...]
47999 150 19_Re: Deus ex Machina0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:47:38 +0000566_- Efraim,
In you astute analysis of this thread you claim I came close to racism with a statement I made but you did leave out the sentence which proseeded the one you quoted, which was, "Of course you may indeed be correct. "
> Sharon, you wrote: > > "...We live in an interconnected world, and so, to some extent, every state > and organization has some interest in the Middle East. However, I believe > (hope) that there is at least 1 party who could be "neutral enough" to > bootstrap the talking that leads to the trust-building that [...]
48150 32 27_Election previews in Israel11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:03:45 -0600631_us-ascii Click on the center to see the video. http://www.o-i.co.il/
________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mjds.org
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48183 217 19_Re: Deus ex Machina17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:58:24 +0200548_us-ascii Efraim, I appreciated what you had to say and the way you said it
I, too, like almost all Israelis want an end to the conflict and I personally have no problem with the concept of a Palestinian state. I have a problem with a Palestinian state that has access to modern weaponry without limits and is intent on killing me. About what Richard said - I agree that the body count is not the way to determine winning and losing. Let's look at stated objectives. On the one hand we have Israel, whose stated objectives are an end to [...]
48401 224 19_Re: Deus ex Machina0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 16:08:03 +0000544_- Please tell me who on Habonet doesn't think the Palestinians need to stop terrorism? That is a hell of an accusation. Sort of akin to saying that Gezer has become a hotbed of Betar reactionary thinking.
> Efraim, I appreciated what you had to say and the way you said it > > I, too, like almost all Israelis want an end to the conflict and I > personally have no problem with the concept of a Palestinian state. I have > a problem with a Palestinian state that has access to modern weaponry > without limits and is intent [...]
48626 39 14_Re: Desert Fox0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 12:20:50 EST408_US-ASCII And how many miles to the gallon? :)
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48666 93 61_Fw: Chesler in MEQ: "How Afghan Captivity Shaped My Feminism"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:33:56 -0800376_iso-8859-1
I am passing this along as a well-written glimpse into culture. It is lengthy, but reminds me of the story told in "Kite Runner", for those of you that read it. I am surprised that Ms. Chesler was surprised. Sally Fields had put out a movie not that long ago ("Not Without My Daughter") that well described the attitudes that almost cost her her life. [...]
48760 71 19_Re: Deus ex Machina0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 09:01:29 -0800592_iso-8859-1 Efraim wrote: Sharon, I believe that you are searching for a state which doesn't exist.
That you believe this is completely clear from your posts. And it appears that you also believe that military and/or economic power are necessary for the 3rd party to have sufficient "weight" for the task. I do not believe either of these things. You conclude by saying: This does not shed any light on how to prevent such a situation from happening. This entire thread is about trying to shed such a light. You dismiss my suggestion out of hand as being impossible, then complain [...]
48832 30 73_Yahoo! News Story - Researchers Convert Chicken Fat to Fuel - Yahoo! News12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:10:24 -0800811_- Sue Liberman (fiddlebach@yahoo.com) has sent you a news article. (Email address has not been verified.) ------------------------------------------------------------ Personal message:
SO, if my car gets sick....Imagine! Gribenes gas! Haven't we known this for years?-sue
Researchers Convert Chicken Fat to Fuel - Yahoo! News
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051130/ap_on_sc/chicken_fat_fuel
============================================================ Yahoo! News http://news.yahoo.com/
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48863 285 19_Re: Deus ex Machina17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:30:39 +0200387_us-ascii Not that they don't need to stop terrorism; they don't need to stop terrorism to have serious negotiations, be accepted by the UN, be able to work in Israel...... If I am wrong I would love to be corrected. But isn't Israel supposed to give Abbas a chance? Isn't it important that we give him something so he can control the "street"? Heidi At 18:08 30/11/2005, you wrote: [...]
49149 103 14_Re: Desert Fox8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 21:11:18 +0200388_us-ascii The mileage isn't great. It's from 1.5 to 2 liters per kilometer. The upside is that you have the option of mounting a machine gun in the roof hatch.
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of JLCAA@AOL.COM Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 7:21 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Desert Fox [...]
49253 24 65_Re: Fw: Chesler in MEQ: "How Afghan Captivity Shaped My Feminism"12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 14:11:38 -0500417_us-ascii >>> I am surprised that Ms. Chesler was surprised. Sally Fields had put out a movie not that long ago ("Not Without My Daughter") that well described the attitudes that almost cost her her life. <<<
Steve,
As wise as Phyllis Chesler is, she is not psychic. Her experience in Afghanistan surprised her because it took place in 1961 and "Not Without My Daughter" wasn't released until 1991. [...]
49278 291 19_Re: Deus ex Machina0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 30 Nov 2005 20:25:51 +0000526_- Thanks for clearing that up. Was wondering just how deep of an end you had jumped off of.
> Not that they don't need to stop terrorism; they don't need to stop > terrorism to have serious negotiations, be accepted by the UN, be able to > work in Israel...... If I am wrong I would love to be corrected. But isn't > Israel supposed to give Abbas a chance? Isn't it important that we give him > something so he can control the "street"? > Heidi > At 18:08 30/11/2005, you wrote: > > >Please tell me who on [...]