1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet September 2005 2 280 12_Re: Workshop15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 00:17:26 -0400550_iso-8859-1 As I sent my middle daughter Yael off to workshop, (just like I went on Workshop 23 at Yotvata in '73) and then read these emails this evening I started wondering what the continuity rate is for workshoppers who had a parent who also had gone on workshop. On the other hand now that I am on the other side, I also see what I put my parents through. And when we went, everyone from across the country arrived several hours in advance in N.Y., (where we then took our group workshop picture and had a small introductory group meeting). [...] 283 148 123_Fwd: (NYC) Shorashim Labor Day Weekend Update: Tamar Alyagor joins Yankele Levy & Danny Uziel as part of the teaching staff0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 02:01:12 EDT345_US-ASCII Dear Habos,

This is the great annual urban dance weekend of "oldies" dances (the ones we do in Habonim) taught and led by great vatikim choreographers who come over from Israel for the weekend.

Please read the schedule enclosed and think about attending if you are within a commute from NY.

Best to all, Aliya [...] 432 3866 31_[Fwd: We Are All Camp Casey...]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:22:27 -0400475_us-ascii I thought some of you might be interested in this upcoming action. (I got the letter because I met activist Susan Adelman in Israel this summer.) Bvirkat shalom- Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4299 423 40_From the Jewish Community in New Orleans0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:05:30 EDT778_ISO-8859-1 ________________________________

From: Feinberg, Howard Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: New Orleans and Other Impacted Areas





TO: North American Jewish Federation Leadership





CC: For distribution to member agencies: JCCA, AJFCS, JESNA, JCPA, Union of Reform Judaism, United Synagogues of America, Union of Orthodox Congregations





From: Howard Feinberg, UJC





We are working closely with the staff of the New Orleans Federation and Gulf Communities leadership (which is hard to contact for now). New Orleans has asked us to forward the attached email. Since it is relevant to the other smaller impacted communities, I am including them in my summary. [...] 4723 36 12_Katrina help12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 08:06:21 -0700610_iso-8859-1 I logged onto Craig's list and there were links to organizations for help. I was shocked not to see one Jedwish organization listed. While I realize the fact that the federations are "mobilized"- this should be an embarrassment. There were Menonites, Lutherans, Catholics, Christians, the Salvation Army...and no Jewish list. One of the things that struck me when I lived in Houston that the same thing happened during floods and other hurricanes. While I know Houston is doing everything it can now to help. it wasn't so much the case back then....I realize that we worry "about our own"- but [...] 4760 66 16_Re: Katrina help0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:41:26 EDT550_US-ASCII Because one of them, my cousin and his family can't get back to their home, have no idea what's doing there and on top of it all it's their daughter's Bat Mitzvah this Shabbat. They are moving the Bat Mitzvah service to Cincinnati where the grandparents live. The party will be someday. I don't understand why there is a need to be picky. Just like Chabad in Thailand during the tzunami there is help available, maybe just not on the Internet yet. I am sure that the WHOLE community is up and providing services to who ever is in need. [...] 4827 50 58_Check out Hurricane Relief | Chabad-Lubavitch of Louisiana0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 11:48:13 EDT505_US-ASCII _Click here: Hurricane Relief | Chabad-Lubavitch of Louisiana_ (http://www.chabadneworleans.com/templates/articlecco.html?AID=306259)

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 4878 58 16_Re: Katrina help20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:01:03 -0700317_iso-8859-1 Sue and others--

First thing this morning I had an email forwarded to me from the Federation of Jewish Men's Clubs (an arm of United Synagogue) with a link for donations which will go to both Jewish organizations and others which are positioned to provide direct assistance to any who need it. [...] 4937 71 16_Re: Katrina help12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 09:22:28 -0700594_iso-8859-1 Ellen- It seems Chabad is the only "public" Jewish philanthropic organization which may get some press ( her in LA- the telethon gets recognized- but not as much as it should), but the truth is, even with their Tzunami help, it was not widely known....people within their community know, but there is some problem with this issue. Jewish philanthropy is outstanding within our own community- and maybe we kow, but no one else does and it gets no press or publicity. How many knew about the El AL planes going to Thailand?....Where is our voice? This is a continuing problem...I [...] 5009 89 16_Re: Katrina help8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:59:31 +0200725_US-ASCII "The Jewish Federation of Metropolitan Chicago has opened a mailbox to funnel humanitarian aid to the hurricane victims."

http://www.juf.org/katrina/

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sue Liberman Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:22 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Katrina help



Ellen- It seems Chabad is the only "public" Jewish philanthropic organization which may get some press ( her in LA- the telethon gets recognized- but not as much as it should), but the truth is, even with their Tzunami help, it was not widely known....people within their community know, but there is some problem [...] 5099 153 16_Re: Katrina help0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:02:20 -0400468_us-ascii UJC, the umbrella org for Jewish Federations, is set up at the link below. I also saw announcements from the Conservative, Reform and Bnai Brith that they have contribution sites up, but I haven't check myself.

https://secure.ujcfederations.org/ft2/form.html?__id=7500

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: Sue Liberman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 08:06:21 -0700 Subject: Katrina help [...] 5253 474 13_Gezer's Rabbi16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:24:57 -0400646_us-ascii

w w w . h a a r e t z . c o m ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Last update - 18:58 01/09/2005



The next controversy: Who is a rabbi?

By Shahar Ilan

Miri Gold, the rabbi of Kibbutz Gezer in central Israel, will become one of the most famous and controversial figures in the Reform movement in Israel over the next few years. Not that Gold is seeking publicity or enjoys being in the spotlight. On the contrary. But she was found by the Reform movement to be the most suitable candidate to petition the High Court of Justice and [...] 5728 668 13_Urban Kibbutz16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:27:40 -0400448_ISO-8859-1





DEMOCRACY

Kibbutzim and the city By Patricia Golan August 21, 2005

When one thinks of a kibbutz, a pastoral picture of cow sheds and cotton and orchards chicken coops comes to mind.

The kibbutz, after all was conceived as a way of returning to the land in a social collective. That unique Israeli experiment combined the need to set up working farms with socialist and Zionist ideology. [...] 6397 217 16_Re: Katrina help13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:38:31 -0400359_us-ascii UJC is the main go-to place for the American Jewish community on this. AJWS says they do not have domestic expertise. Mazon is collecting for food and water. I wouldn't be too critical of the Jewish communtiy for not having assets on the ground when FEMA is "standing down" after people shot at them and tried to hijack their rescue boats. Judy [...] 6615 282 16_Re: Katrina help12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:29:14 +0200625_ISO-8859-1 Judy - Please give some background on "FEMA 'standing down' after people shot at them and tried to hijack their rescue boats. " Jessie

----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Katrina help



UJC is the main go-to place for the American Jewish community on this. AJWS says they do not have domestic expertise. Mazon is collecting for food and water. I wouldn't be too critical of the Jewish communtiy for not having assets on the ground when FEMA is "standing down" after people shot at them and tried [...] 6898 271 16_Re: Katrina help12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 20:36:17 +0200562_ISO-8859-1 Erase that FEMA question. I read up. Sorry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Katrina help



UJC is the main go-to place for the American Jewish community on this. AJWS says they do not have domestic expertise. Mazon is collecting for food and water. I wouldn't be too critical of the Jewish communtiy for not having assets on the ground when FEMA is "standing down" after people shot at them and tried to hijack their rescue boats. Judy [...] 7170 375 16_Re: Katrina help13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:58:22 -0400569_us-ascii I heard it on CNN. THere were several incidents of people trying to hijack the boats of FEMA rescuers and so FEMA decided it was too dangerous to deploy their employees until their own safety could be guaranteed. . There are also reports of police who were on search and rescue missions being pinned down by gun fire. It seems like this was done by people who were looting the area and didn't want to be disturbed. The mayor called off all search and rescue missions and is redeploying all the troops to controlling looters first. There had previous been [...] 7546 107 35_Re: [Fwd: We Are All Camp Casey...]13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:00:49 -0400439_iso-8859-1 I am certainly not Camp Casey. I think a sudden withdrawal of all American and British forces would be a greater disaster than the one we are facing. I think the get out now anti-war movement couldn't be more wrong.

________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh on behalf of Judy Gelman Sent: Thu 9/1/2005 7:22 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: [Fwd: We Are All Camp Casey...] [...] 7654 254 16_Re: Katrina help12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 12:20:20 -0700573_iso-8859-1 Judy- thank you for putting into words what many of us are feeling. I can not tolerate even seeing Bush's face ---how shallow he is to go on with his "plans" when this began- instead of mobilizing the needed help. Obviously, the government had ( has) no vision. These people are suffering so it is incomprehensible. What is also sad is the fact that the media has focused mostly on Biloxi and New Orleans, but Louisiana and Mississippi has so many non-urban communities which have been devastated,a nd we are now beginning to find out about all of them now [...] 7909 141 47_Why New Orleans is in Deep Water by Molly Ivins0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:28:35 EDT544_US-ASCII Attempts to evacuate Charity Hospital patients have been stopped, according to CNN, because of "sniper fire."

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0901-26.htm

Published on Thursday, September 1, 2005 by the Chicago Tribune Why New Orleans is in Deep Water by Molly Ivins

Like many of you who love New Orleans, I find myself taking short mental walks there today, turning a familiar corner, glimpsing a favorite scene, square or vista. And worrying about the beloved friends and the city, and how they are now. [...] 8051 52 62_Milwaukee Federation supports Hurricane Katrina relief efforts11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:30:34 -0500534_us-ascii ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Rick Meyer" Reply-To: "John Bugajski" Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:55:01 -0500











Milwaukee Jewish Federation supports Hurricane Katrina relief efforts August 31, 2005 Dear Friends, In response to the devastation of Hurricane Katrina, the Milwaukee Jewish Federation is accepting donations for humanitarian aid to communities in the Gulf Coast. [...] 8104 29 16_Re: Katrina help12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 15:34:19 -0400637_us-ascii Speaking of looting in the aftermath of Katrina, here's a message I got from a friend yesterday:

>> If it wasn't so believable, it'd be unbelievable... >> >> A whitey "finds food" while a darky "loots a grocery store": >> >> http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2005/8/30/162831/182/80#80 >>

Sad but true.

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8134 153 35_Re: [Fwd: We Are All Camp Casey...]0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 19:51:48 +0000346_- My gut feeling is to agree with you, David, but what is the alternative? Is there any reason to believe the situation will ever improve? One of the reasons the administration gave for invading Iraq is because Saddam Hussain was such a bloody tyrant. Is there any reason to believe that less Iraqis have died now that Hussain is in prison? [...] 8288 617 69_Fw: Deputy Director of Palestinian clerics: "We Must Kill These Jews"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:00:02 -0700456_UTF-8

Forwarding for contemplation and discussion.

Steve

5:23 PM Subject: Deputy Director of Palestinian clerics: "We Must Kill These Jews"





--





August 31, 2005 Contact Morton A. Klein at: (212) 481-1500 Attn: NEWS EDITOR





DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF PALESTINIAN CLERICS: THE ZIONIST ENTITY WILL BE DESTROYED – NO NEGOTIATIONS – ONLY JIHAD – WE MUST KILL THESE JEWS [...] 8906 678 27_More things to worry about?0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:57:24 -0700435_iso-8859-1 As posted on jihadwatch.org: In reaction to Hurricane Katrina and the destruction in its wake, a high-ranking Kuwaiti official, Muhammad Yousef Al-Mlaifi, who is director of the Kuwaiti Ministry of Endowment's research center, published an article titled "The Terrorist Katrina is One of the Soldiers of Allah, But Not an Adherent of Al-Qaeda." [1] The article appeared August 31, 2005 in the Kuwaiti daily Al-Siyassa. [...] 9585 843 31_Re: More things to worry about?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:04:01 -0700731_iso-8859-1 Sharon

Thank you.

You are certainly correct. I just like to know what and how my enemies are thinking.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:57 PM Subject: More things to worry about?





As posted on jihadwatch.org: In reaction to Hurricane Katrina and the destruction in its wake, a high-ranking Kuwaiti official, Muhammad Yousef Al-Mlaifi, who is director of the Kuwaiti Ministry of Endowment's research center, published an article titled "The Terrorist Katrina is One of the Soldiers of Allah, But Not an Adherent of Al-Qaeda." [1] The article appeared August 31, [...] 10429 47 29_And now for something lighter12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:30:06 -0700544_iso-8859-1 We just unpacked and set up furniture which was shipped to my boss that was in the Herzl Room in the Three Kings Hotel in Basle, Switzerland. When the hotel decided to "modernize," the furniture, which had been sitting in the room since Herzl used it during the first Zionist Congress, they sent it to a woman who was friends with the only living cousin of Anne Frank. He met my boss, and they became instant friends some time ago, and when the woman wanted to give the furniture to him, he suggested to give it to my boss, who [...] 10477 105 36_tzedakah for hurricane/flood victims0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Thu, 1 Sep 2005 21:00:12 EDT689_US-ASCII

Thanks to the National Jewish Democratic Council for compiling this list of Jewish organizations that have arranged for direct contributions to the relief effort. You may need to copy the URL into your browser. Best, Rhonda

American Jewish Committee: _http://www.ajc.org/katrina_ (http://www.ajc.org/katrina)

United Jewish Community's Hurricane Katrina Disaster Relief Fund: _https://secure.ujcfederations.org/error_katrina.html_ (https://secure.ujcfederations.org/error_katrina.html)

Disaster Relief Donation throug_h B'nai B'rith: https://www70.ssldomain.com/bbitest/giving/fund/disaster_relief/form.cfm _ (http://ga4.org/ct/IdqFOl71amth/NJDC) [...] 10583 45 17_Re: Gezer's Rabbi0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 03:42:51 EDT427_US-ASCII Wow, am I proud to be from Habonim-Dror and working for a Reform temple when I read an article like this!

Aliya

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 10629 378 16_Re: Katrina help0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:02:22 -0400690_us-ascii For those interested in helping Katrina victims through a Jewish agency, note this initiative through Congregation Habonim (no relation) in NYC.

Ken ---------------------- Dear Friends,



Every day, the news from Louisiana and Mississippi seems to get worse. Roughly 80,000 residents of the greater New Orleans area are now considered refugees, and are being resettled in Houston, San Antonio and other larger metropolitan areas that can absorb them. These people are homeless, clothing-less, without means or transportation, and in need of help. The Houston area alone will likely absorb 20,000 people: more than 5000 of them are school aged children who [...] 11008 220 17_Re: Gezer's Rabbi0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:22:32 -0400574_us-ascii I have to share my personal happiness about this court case. Miri has been a close friend even before we were in a garin to Gezer together in 1976. I observed her develop interest in becoming a Rabbi and build a wonderful synagogue at Gezer (full disclosure - I am also a synagogue member). My daughter Netta became a Bat Mitzvah in Pinat Shorashim at Gezer at which Miri officiated in 2003. She has developed a close working relationship with the Gezer Regional Council, evidenced by their support for her quest to be treated like all other community rabbis. [...] 11229 284 16_Re: Katrina help13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:32:58 -0400449_us-ascii This is a lovely idea BUT the Red Cross is begging people *NOT* to send items for three reasons: 1) transportation costs are enormous, including the cost of handling and sorting 2) Money spent in the area where the victims are or are relocating will help boast the local economy and get these victims jobs 3) people on the ground in Houston actually know what the people need--which at this point is food, water, shelter and clothing. [...] 11514 94 16_Re: Katrina help13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:55:00 -0400609_- David Twersky via Treo 650

-----Original Message----- From: Judith Gelman Date: Friday, Sep 2, 2005 8:31 am Subject: Re: Katrina help

This is a lovely idea BUT the Red Cross is begging people *NOT* to send items for three reasons: 1) transportation costs are enormous, including the cost of handling and sorting 2) Money spent in the area where the victims are or are relocating will help boast the local economy and get these victims jobs 3) people on the ground in Houston actually know what the people need--which at this point is food, water, shelter and clothing. [...] 11609 159 41_WHERE IS PAT ROBERTSON WHEN YOU NEED HIM?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 07:13:22 -0700591_iso-8859-1 THIS ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BE KICKED OUT AND THIS COUNTRY SHOULD HAVE A REVOLUTION! YOU CAN BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR THAT IF THIS WERE FLORIDA, THERE WOULD BE THE RIGHT KIND OF HELP IN 5 MINUTES. THIS IS A REAL "SHONDA"- AND THERE ARE NO EXCUSES FOR THE WAY THIS ADMINISTRATION IS BEHAVING. SEE THE OP-ED IN THE NEW YORK TIMES. CONDELEEZA RICE WENT OUT TO BROADWAY SHOWS!!!......I AM EMBARRASSED FOR MY COUNTRY, BUT MORE THAN THAT, I AM HURTING FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SUFFERING NEEDLESSLY BECAUSE OF THE IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY OF THIS GOVERNMENT. SORRY- JUST HAD TO VENT--SUE [...] 11769 314 58_Fw: First hand account from doctor stranded in New Orleans11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 08:09:54 -0700475_iso-8859-1 Message

Subject: Fw: First hand account from doctor stranded in New Orleans





Subject: First hand account from doctor stranded in New Orleans (This thanks to Valerie Mallick of Fort Worth)

Below is the first communication we've had from a dear family friend who lives in New Orleans. When the threat of Katrina was realized, he sent his wife and two young girls to Jackson, MS where his parents live.. but he stayed behind. [...] 12084 439 41_Re: Katrina help - Israel's offer to help0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:11:05 -0400833_iso-8859-1

CONFERENCE OF PRESIDENTS OF MAJOR AMERICAN JEWISH ORGANIZATIONS





Harold Tanner Chairman

Malcolm I. Hoenlein Executive Vice Chairman

Contact: Malcolm Hoenlein, 212-318-6111







Israel's Offers of Assistance to Hurricane Victims Lauded.

Israel Offers Hundreds of Doctors, Trauma Specialists, and Natural Disaster Experts. American Jewish Groups Mobilizing.



New York, September 1, 2005 . "We note with appreciation the offers of the Government of Israel to provide aid and assistance to the victims of Hurricane Katrina," said Conference of Presidents Chairman Harold Tanner and Executive Vice Chairman Malcolm Hoenlein. "Israel has offered hundreds of doctors, nurses, technicians, and experts in trauma natural disasters and [...] 12524 240 20_A Jewish way to help13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 11:28:04 -0400615_us-ascii The writer is the executive director of Yachad, a program that works with the Jewish communtiy to provide low income housing assistance and econ dev assistance in DC. Their flagship program, Sukkot in APril, involves area synagogues in rehabbing housing for low income, disabled elderly.

Judy Gelman

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12765 25 17_For Ellen-Emabear12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:15:36 -0700598_iso-8859-1 Hi- can you pelase send me your phone numebr? I need to talk to you in person relating to an AMit function!- Thanks- sue liberman

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12791 27 15_Touro synagogue12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 10:17:33 -0700595_iso-8859-1 Does anyone have a clue what has happened tothe synagogue- or if anyonehas pictures?- or where I cna find out--Thanks- sue





____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12819 30 19_Re: Touro synagogue12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 13:54:45 -0400608_us-ascii > Does anyone have a clue what has happened tothe > synagogue- or if anyonehas pictures?- or where I cna > find out--Thanks- sue

http://www.tourosynagogue.com/

http://www.tourosynagogue.org/

http://www.nps.gov/tosy/

http://tinyurl.com/asf9s

David the Google monkey

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12850 60 51_Re: Why New Orleans is in Deep Water by Molly Ivins14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:58:51 +0000474_- Shalom Deb:

I believe it is worthwhile to comment on the article by Molly Ivins that you recently posted.

Ms. Ivins writes, "" The levees of New Orleans, two of which are now broken and flooding the city, were also victims of Iraq war spending. Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, said on June 8, 2004, 'It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq.' "" [...] 12911 263 17_Re: Gezer's Rabbi0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:10:55 +0000529_- While I certainly don't feel that reform rabbis should be treated any differently than any other rabbis does anyone else share my revulsion at the fact that a government pays any rabbis anything?









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 13175 36 20_Baltimore?Washington0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:25:07 +0000365_-

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 13212 97 51_Re: Why New Orleans is in Deep Water by Molly Ivins0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 16:33:09 EDT518_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/02/2005 3:42:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM writes:



The remaining question is how should America's needs be prioritized? Specifically, how much should be spent on large infrastructure projects such as repairing/replacing dikes and how much should be spent on funding Social Security and Medicare, higher pay for teachers, police, nurses, and for many other worthwhile, non-infrastructure purposes? Balancing these priorities is never easy. [...] 13310 40 16_& one more thing0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:34:18 +0000435_- I forgot to say that if you know anyone who might be coming to the kumzitz but is not on Habonet please send them the shiron.

Thanks

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 13351 53 6_Shiron0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 20:49:23 +0000544_- I tried to send the shiron out to Habonet but it was too big and Habonet won't take it so I will be dividing it up into two parts and sending it out in a few moments.

The original message which was quashed was:

Well here it is, flaws and all, the unofficial Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz Shiron. Since it is a virtual Shiron please feel free to send me any corrections in either chords, lyrics or otherwise. I wanted to send it out far enough in advance that if anyone wanted to print it out they didn't feel rushed so here [...] 13405 4278 13_Shiron Part I0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:00:47 +0000365_-

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 17684 6084 14_Shiron Part II0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:01:30 +0000365_-

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 23769 55 47_Infrastructure vs non-Infrastructure Priorities14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:31:12 +0000421_- Shalom Sam,

Regarding my remarks about the difficulty of striking a balance between infrastructure priorities and non-infrastructure priorities, you wrote,

"" You forgot to mention big tax cuts for the wealthy... We would be able to balance all these priorities a little better without tax welfare for the very wealthy. Bush may not be solely responsible for this mess but he is clearly culpable. "" [...] 23825 102 16_Hurricane Relief16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 18:55:32 -0400596_us-ascii The United Jewish Communities / Federations of North America has established a humanitarian relief fund < http://www.ujc.org/servertransfer.html?targetURL=/ft2/form.html?__id=7500 > to aid members of the Jewish and general communities touched by Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, the Western Florida panhandle and other affected areas... click here for more details < http://www.ujc.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=161563 > [...] 23928 101 10_priorities16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 09:24:34 -0400587_us-ascii This is in response to Marty Goodman's reply to Sam. One of Bill Clinton's great achievements, it seems to me, was both paying off the deficit and putting the US into positive cash flow with surplus. He ran the country the way you'd want your business to run. If businesses ran the way W runs the country, they'd all be in bankruptcy. You are, of course, right to suggest that infrastructure costs are a matter of one set of priorities among many. However, because they are "pork" for Congressmen and Senators they actually have a greater likelihood of implementation. And [...] 24030 69 51_Re: Why New Orleans is in Deep Water by Molly Ivins0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 13:53:01 +0000578_- There is a major problem with your analysis here. If I am not mistaken, we have not had a democratic Congress and administration since the 1970s and, since 2001 we have had an entirely Republican led government. Would the Democrats have done better? Obviously we don't know but we can be sure that the Republicans would have had no problem blaming them if this would have happened under their watch. But, in fact, this has happened while the GOP has control over all branches of our federal government. They wanted the responsibility, they got it and they get the blame. [...] 24100 53 42_And now for something completely different5_aviva21_aviva5675@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 12:27:54 -0500387_iso-8859-1 Anyone able offhand to tell me Tavor's winter address? Thanks

Aviva

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24154 32 17_Jewishly critical12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:40:30 +0200580_us-ascii It is mid afternoon on a balmy Shabbat. In about an hour shadows will begin taking their appointed places on the eastern hillsides opposite our home. If we humans would only fall as naturally into our appointed places. The eastern hillsides here belong the sovereign State of Jordan. Re'eh is the bible portion from Deuteronomy for this week(chap 11 vs 26 - 32. to chap 16 vs 17) Whenever I find my gut secular instincts slipping I turn to this gutsy portion to reaffirm my "faith." Now, the Haftorah for this Shabbat is taken from prophet Isaiah chapters54 and 55. [...] 24187 50 21_Re: Jewishly critical12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 20:36:28 +0200646_ISO-8859-1 The haftorah is "Machar Chodesh," I Samuel 20. Other than that, I can relate. ----- Original Message ----- From: "amnon hadary" To: Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 8:40 PM Subject: Jewishly critical



> It is mid afternoon on a balmy Shabbat. In about an hour shadows will > begin taking their appointed places on the eastern hillsides opposite our > home. If we humans would only fall as naturally into our appointed > places. The eastern hillsides here belong the sovereign State of Jordan. > Re'eh is the bible portion from Deuteronomy for this week(chap 11 vs 26 [...] 24238 29 24_Today's Haftorah reading12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Fri, 2 Sep 2005 22:32:39 +0200448_iso-8859-1 There is a controversy as to whether today was supposed to be Machar Hodesh, or the regular reading from Isaiah as one of the "comforting" Haftarot after Tisha B'Av that should be recited. In our shul this morning, the reader began Machar Hodesh and the rabbi was about to stop him but let him continue. The afternoon class was devoted to studying the decisions by different commentators about this; the commentators were split.... [...] 24268 357 17_Re: Gezer's Rabbi0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:33:06 -0400601_us-ascii Richard:

I actually gave some thought to that question as I read the article about Miri. I am actually not so clear on this issue. We talk about wanting Israel to be a Jewish state. Just like the government (read taxes) pays teachers for educating children, maybe the state paying Rabbis to provide religious/spiritual services is analogous. You do need to remember that the notion of synagogue membership is totally different in Israel. I do agree that this is a practice that raises American eyebrows, but in an Israeli context it might make sense. Of course the reality of the [...] 24626 104 17_Re: Shiron Part I0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 16:36:13 -0400524_us-ascii Richard - outstanding collection of songs - thanks for sharing it with all of us!!

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 21:00:47 +0000 Subject: Shiron Part I











The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 24731 880 17_Re: Gezer's Rabbi12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 23:07:45 +0200626_ISO-8859-1 Ken, Richard: It's a core question of vision. For those in favor of a secular, democratic state, state-salaried rabbis are out. For those who want a state with a "Jewish" character, there are many questions of where to draw the line - national calendar, Shabbat and the public space, public funding for religious services (remember, this currently also includes a range from yeshivas and mikvehs, to Shas kindergartens, to salaried Orthodox rabbis)... and many other questions. I agree that in the status quo, it is imperative that we even things out (for those opposed to state funding of religious services, [...] 25612 68 22_pay the rabbi and pray13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:02:40 +0200556_windows-1255 I recall a flurry of letters to this list last year or two years ago where complaints were made that in order to daven on the High Holidays one has to buy a ticket in order to enter services: no tickee no seat. (in the U.S.A.)

In Israel, where people do not have extra money for synagogue services on the holidays, we have free access to shuls, and do not have to pay for tickets. That is a very positive situation for Israelis and prevents embarrassment for those who could otherwise not attend services because of lack of funds. [...] 25681 28 46_Re: And now for something completely different0_23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 18:47:55 -0400 25710 147 17_Re: Shiron Part I0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 01:17:49 +0000406_- Thank you









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 25858 75 25_Shiron Part 1 and Part II11_Sue Freeman19_sfreeman@CFL.RR.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:03:52 -0400664_iso-8859-1 To the individual who posted Shiron Part I and Part II, would it be possible to post it again? I inadvertently deleted it. If you would like, you can send it directly to my e-mail address sfreeman@cfl.r.r.com rather than posting the Habonet. Thanks.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 25934 72 25_Shiron Part I and Part II11_Sue Freeman19_sfreeman@CFL.RR.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 00:09:19 -0400581_iso-8859-1 I posted my e-mail incorrectly to receive again Shiron Part I and Part II. The correct address is sfreeman@cfl.rr.com. Sorry to all about this second posting. Thanks.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 26007 61 4_Weep12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 3 Sep 2005 23:29:51 -0700498_iso-8859-1 Weep

By the rivers of Babylon And the Mississippi The messengers are weeping At the images strewn down before them Of the hollow eyes of the wise Concealing their wailing And praying to go into the light For some peace. Of the children Shaking fingers at the adults Clinging to the mothers and fathers Who try to “do something” but are helpless Of the helpless who wander around In the heat of the wetness Drowning their minds and their bodies In the nothingness that’s left [...] 26069 50 21_Re: For Ellen-Emabear0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 02:50:33 EDT480_US-ASCII Here's my phone number: 818-348-1868. I'd like to talk to you but I am involved with NA'AMAT not Amit! Ellen

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 26120 34 15_Who is a rabbi?12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 12:11:30 +0200637_us-ascii Father Abraham is reputedly the first of the iconoclasts. Which WordWeb defines as someone who tries to destroy traditional ideas and institutions or an image breaker. Subsequently Judaism got the hives from any physical likeness. The Hashmonean family embarked on a war against the Hellenized Syrian army for - among other things - introducing statues into the first Temple. The totemic antagonism to idols persists. So when Eliezer ben Yehuda came up with a creative new Hebrew word for camera = "tzalmania" (image maker) the Orthodox were incensed. The Hebrew root zlm, is idol or more specifically the Christian cross. [...] 26155 23 18_Democratic control16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 09:25:36 -0400580_ISO-8859-1 In Habonet 2005-244, Richard Smith writes

>If I am not mistaken, we have not had a democratic Congress and administration since the 1970s > Richard, you are mistaken. There were both Democratic House & Senate majorities and a Democratic president from 1992-1994.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 26179 52 10_Re: Shiron12_brian cooper25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 10:14:52 -0400560_ISO-8859-1 Richard,

This is amazing. Thank you!

--Brian

rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: > I tried to send the shiron out to Habonet but it was too big and Habonet > won't take it so I will be dividing it up into two parts and sending it > out in a few moments. > > The original message which was quashed was: > > Well here it is, flaws and all, the unofficial Baltimore/Washington > Kumzitz Shiron. Since it is a virtual Shiron please feel free to send > me any corrections in either chords, lyrics or otherwise. I wanted to > send it [...] 26232 36 13_Shiron update0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:42:21 +0000290_- I kinda hate to do this but there have been some updates even since the shiron was sent out yesterday. A few songs have been added and chords added and in some cases corrected. I will resend in a few days so if anyone, other than me, plans on printing it you may want to wait a bit. [...] 26269 139 29_Who's Running The Government?14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:56:50 +0000640_- Shalom Richard:

In your recent posting, you wrote, "" ... we have not had a democratic Congress and administration since the 1970s and, since 2001 we have had an entirely Republican led government... ""

Actually, the Democratic Party was the majority party in both houses of Congress almost constantly from November 1954 through November 1994. The Republican party has controlled the House of Representatives since November 1994 (most of that time while Bill Clinton was president). The Senate has been held by the Republican party from 1994 to 2001 and from 2003 to present (i.e., Democrats controlled the Senate from [...] 26409 206 33_Re: Who's Running The Government?0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:25:04 EDT472_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/04/2005 2:57:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

This is part of why I assert that failure to prioritize maintenance of public infrastructure in America is not linked to any single political party or idealogy.

Marty. As always you are right on the dates. You get all the details ( of what you focused on) and then miss the main points. You have such an knack for that. It must take practice. [...] 26616 89 33_Re: Who's Running The Government?0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:31:10 EDT669_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/04/2005 2:57:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM writes:



4. The Ministry of SCIENCE/TECHNOLOGY, which was headed just once by an Orthodox leaning party/individual, i.e., between October 1983 and September 1984 by Yuval Neeman of the Techiya party;

Yuvall Neeman is not orthodox. He is no more orthodox than Sharon is. But your list is good. Now your next job is to put together a list of Ministries that have never had an Israeli Arab Minister. Since the represent a larger percentage of Israel's population than the orthodox, they should have better representation in government than the [...] 26706 148 33_Re: Who's Running The Government?0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 21:40:42 +0000295_- Luckily for all, I have nothing to do with picking ministers in the Israeli government, however, if I was in charge of assigning cabinet positions and I had to choose between someone who believed in and talked to imaginary beings and someone who didn't it would be pretty easy to decide. [...] 26855 28 46_Re: And now for something completely different11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 16:23:32 -0500338_us-ascii At 18:47 -0400 9/3/05, jacknusan@earthlink.net wrote: >Dear Aviva: I was just there in early summer, at Tavor, and I met weith Ron Sussman's son, and I think his father has the address for winter. They had a very nice turn-out of campers by the way, over 135 think. Aviva, write me off-line.Jackie Porter (in Newton, Mass.) [...] 26884 571 28_Fwd: Hurrican Katrina 9-1-050_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:09:56 EDT415_US-ASCII Just thought chevre might want to know. Avi

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 27456 51 46_Re: And now for something completely different5_aviva21_aviva5675@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:36:54 -0500424_iso-8859-1 Maybe someone from Schechter could give me the winter address then--since no one yet has coughed it up. Maybe if I snuck the request into a lengthy political rant I'd get a better response...:)

Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Ferri" To: Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 4:23 PM Subject: Re: And now for something completely different [...] 27508 58 46_Re: And now for something completely different0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 23:42:20 +0000612_- The fact that you can't get a winter address is because the Bush administration is in league with the ultra-orthodox to prevent you from getting that information.



> Maybe someone from Schechter could give me the winter address then--since no > one yet has coughed it up. Maybe if I snuck the request into a lengthy > political rant I'd get a better response...:) > > Aviva > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Ferri" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 4:23 PM > Subject: Re: And now for something completely different > > > [...] 27567 191 32_Re: Fwd: Hurrican Katrina 9-1-0512_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:23:24 -0700330_iso-8859-1 Thanks Avi...I saw an interview of one of the Parsih presidents who complained that the devastation is much larger than just New orleans. he challeneged Bush, and said they should all be fired, and to stop with the speeches and coem and bring a banana, a boat, and a toothbrush. I suppose that says it all...susie [...] 27759 111 46_Re: And now for something completely different12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 18:25:09 -0700566_iso-8859-1 The truth is, the information is locked in the New Orleans Convention Center, and the police won't let it out unless they can kill you...s

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> The fact that you can't get a winter address is > because the Bush administration is in league with > the ultra-orthodox to prevent you from getting that > information. > > > > Maybe someone from Schechter could give me the > winter address then--since no > > one yet has coughed it up. Maybe if I snuck the > request into a lengthy > > political rant I'd get [...] 27871 30 46_Re: And now for something completely different0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET30_Mon, 5 Sep 2005 00:08:58 -0400473_utf-8 did you check their website at www.camptavor.com ? ---- aviva wrote: Anyone able offhand to tell me Tavor's winter address? Thanks

Aviva

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 27902 68 36_Deuteronomy - Redacting the Redactor14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sun, 4 Sep 2005 20:38:42 +0000393_- Shalom Amnon,

A number of weeks ago when reading of Sefer Dvarim resumed in synagogues, you wrote that it was widely agreed among scholars that Deuteronomy was composed about 2600 years ago in the time of King Josiah. You also wrote that motivation for composing Deuteronomy was to help reinforce Josiah’s religious reforms, in particular centralization of worship in one place. [...] 27971 80 40_Re: Deuteronomy - Redacting the Redactor0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:13:08 +0000615_- Martin wrote: "However, representing them as an accepted theory akin to gravity or evolution is premature and misleading."

Bush believes that the jury is out on both gravity and evolution.



> Shalom Amnon, > > A number of weeks ago when reading of Sefer Dvarim resumed in synagogues, > you wrote that it was widely agreed among scholars that Deuteronomy was > composed about 2600 years ago in the time of King Josiah. You also wrote > that motivation for composing Deuteronomy was to help reinforce Josiah’s > religious reforms, in particular centralization of worship in one place. > > [...] 28052 31 36_Shironim and being Jewishly critical12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 5 Sep 2005 18:33:54 +0200505_us-ascii Richard, I want to add my Yishar Koach to you on the Shironim. What a job you did. (Not always a party pooper - just vigilant) I want to point out that "shalom aleinu V'al kol yisrael," is really a non sequitur. As in the nonsense riddle: if a couple can walk home alone, can one person walk home together? If god created the world than all people are equally his creatures. Unless he is only ours we can not be chosen to be at peace (with whom;) to walk home at peace together. OSEH SHALOM [...] 28084 81 40_Re: Deuteronomy - Redacting the Redactor0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 5 Sep 2005 11:50:04 EDT570_US-ASCII Wow Marty

You are an Ish Esholot. First you make claims about the entitlement systems in American that show that you have no grasp on the topic whatsoever. Than you go on to give a less than honest account of the Bush administrations record on disaster management. You then switch gears to tell us you have evidence that the Orthodox in Israel are being discriminated against. When you are challenged on all these assertions, you switch gears and challenge the use of the J, E, P, D and R authors of the Torah is good scholarship. Wow.. That is one [...] 28166 39 40_Re: Shironim and being Jewishly critical0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:16:29 +0000506_- Thank you (I think).



> Richard, > I want to add my Yishar Koach to you on the Shironim. What a job you did. > (Not always a party pooper - just vigilant) I want to point out that > "shalom aleinu V'al kol yisrael," is really a non sequitur. As in the > nonsense riddle: if a couple can walk home alone, can one person walk home > together? If god created the world than all people are equally his > creatures. Unless he is only ours we can not be chosen to be at peace > (with whom;) [...] 28206 26 32_Re: Shiron-can't get attachments0_15_ronoren@AOL.COM30_Mon, 5 Sep 2005 13:36:12 -0400317_us-ascii Richard & Cooper,

I'm not sure if this is a common problem or not, but my mail system, or perhaps the Habonet system removes all attachments when I get the digest of Habonet. Is there a workaround for this, or can I get the Shiron sent to my email directly? Thanks, Ron Orenstein ronoren@aol.com [...] 28233 23 40_Re: Shironim and being Jewishly critical12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:47:26 +0200457_us-ascii Richard; You wrote: "Thank you (I think)." Trust me, I meant every word.

Amnon

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 28257 109 40_Re: Shironim and being Jewishly critical13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:14:31 -0400680_us-ascii All of you who are drooling over the shiron and plan to come to the kumsitz--come early (5 PM), meet Amnon and hear him talk about his new book!

Judy Gelman



amnon hadary wrote:

> Richard; > You wrote: > "Thank you (I think)." > Trust me, I meant every word. > > Amnon > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > [...] 28367 1140 29_Long term reconstruction--AJC13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 07:27:36 -0400 29508 33 23_daily video from Israel11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 06:46:12 -0500643_us-ascii in English from Israel.

You can sign up...

http://www.jerusalemonline.com











________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mjds.org









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 29542 130 46_Did Moses Write the Torah? was Deuteronomy ...12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:05:13 +0200646_us-ascii Marty, Hallelujah for taking up the cudgels of a "Michael's boat is a gospel boat, Hallelujah" version of Bible Criticism. That approach repudiates applying any criteria that have proven useful in other literary critical disciplines. That approach is also tantamount to a Jewish "creationist" posture because Orthodoxy, after all adheres to traditionalism, to strict adherence to hallowed methods or teachings. They believe that the Torah was authored by god in one fell swoop with Moses in the role of court stenographer. They believe that it didn't evolve and develop over time in response to the perceived needs of human beings. [...] 29673 1749 34_Martin Peretz/TNR on collaboration16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:05:05 -0400599_ISO-8859-1 The New Republic Online HALHUL DISPATCH Front Line by Martin Peretz Post date: 09.01.05 Issue date: 09.12.05

OK, this is not really about Halhul. It is about what I saw and learned in the surroundings of Halhul, where the engineering unit of the Israeli tank battalion I visited with Colonel Bentsi has been doing reserve duty during the last weeks. It is a dangerous place. It was apparently a dangerous place long ago. It is mentioned in the Book of Joshua as a Judean town and also alluded to in 2 Samuel, where a prophet named Gad--who, according to [...] 31423 113 28_Re: Deuteronomy - Am HaSefer12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 17:24:43 +0200619_windows-1255 Dear Marty, The fact that Deut. repeats verbatim texts attributed to other authors does not obviate the possibility that it was compiled by D. In any case, I fail to see the relevance of the attributed authorship of the Bible to Jewish identity as "Am HaSefer". Would you stop celebrating Pesach if it were to be definitely established (archeological evidence has not yet turned up) that there was no Exodus as recorded in the sources? Associating on the matter of "Am HaSefer," Israel is sorely lacking for a proper library system. Municipal libraries within a single city function independently and [...] 31537 120 40_Re: Shironim and being Jewishly critical0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:12:29 -0700500_us-ascii This is why at my shul (Reconstructionist, of course), we sing

Oseh shalom bimromav Hu ya-aseh shalom aleinu V'al kol yisrael, V'al kol yoshvei tevail v'imru amen

-Sharon







amnon hadary Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 09/05/2005 09:33 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Shironim and being Jewishly critical [...] 31658 113 26_Re: pay the rabbi and pray0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 09:53:25 -0700596_us-ascii Wow, something on which I (mostly) agree with Pearl. Will wonders never cease! Given the fact the High Holiday tickets (at places I have checked) can cost nearly as much as annual membership, it seems clear to me that such tickets are used as a carrot to get people to join synagogues. Personally, I don't understand why synagogues are so interested in having large membership rosters filled with people who don't feel any attachment to the congregation, but maybe that's just me. BTW, lots of people in the US don't have extra money for synagogue services on the holidays, either. [...] 31772 94 40_Re: Shironim and being Jewishly critical12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 11:10:13 -0700576_iso-8859-1 Amnon's point is that there should be no "v" after the "aleinu"- that marks a "separation" of those singing, and the rest of Am Yisrael- I have to agree- although I never thought of this before--sue > > Oseh shalom bimromav > Hu ya-aseh shalom aleinu > V'al kol yisrael, > V'al kol yoshvei tevail > v'imru amen > > -Sharon > > > > > amnon hadary > Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh > > 09/05/2005 09:33 AM > Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual > Machaneh > > > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > cc: [...] 31867 157 26_Re: pay the rabbi and pray0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 19:15:28 +0000446_- So there is nothing wrong with making those folks who are not Jewish or not religious to pay for those that are?









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32025 194 42_reply to sharon Re: pay the rabbi and pray13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 21:17:19 +0200592_iso-8859-1 the reason we do not pay for attending services is that the government pays the synagogue rabbi and the religious councils paid for building and upkeep.

I don't wish to get into arguments about this, but the system works, and no one needs to be without a congregation.

In America, the cost of the synagogue and rabbi, chazan, etc., all fall on the congregants, and therefore they have to pay to keep the shul going. It would be ethically wrong to exploit the synagogue for the sole purpose of going to holiday services, which essentially means one who does this [...] 32220 49 26_Re: pay the rabbi and pray8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:45:25 +0200422_us-ascii Richard, everybody ends up eventually seeing their taxes go towards something they disapprove of, such as pacifists who help pay for the armed forces. Anyhow, before you get hot under the collar about it, Israel isn't the only Western country that has state-supported clergy. France and Britain also have state-run and supported religions. I also don't happen to think it's a great idea but it's what it is. [...] 32270 49 43_reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and pray13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:06:18 +0200661_iso-8859-1 The ultra-religious Jews say: they pay taxes for many things they do not benefit from: theatre and concert orchestras, dance festivals, public schools (most send their kids to private religious schools), community centers, public pools. my son, who is a chardal, spends 3000 shekels a month on private school tuition. His salary is 4,000 shekels. Wife is not working with 5 children at home. He is but one of many thousands in such a sitution. The religious sacrifice much to make sure their children get proper education. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 06, [...] 32320 106 26_Re: pay the rabbi and pray13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 16:12:03 -0400495_us-ascii rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

>So there is nothing wrong with making those folks who are not Jewish or not religious to pay for those that are? > > > > > For good or for ill, everyone in Israel has to use the services of clergy--for marriage and divorce and also is entitled to them for burial and other rites of passage. You get to "pick" your faith--Jewish, Druze, Christian (several kinds), Baha'i, Muslim--by being born into it, unless you convert, which is not easy!. [...] 32427 169 26_Re: pay the rabbi and pray12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:15:51 +0200312_iso-8859-1 Ask your questions now and I'll fwd to Yuval. On Mon. I'm away for two weeks (hey, how do I turn this thing off temporarily... Brian?) - Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 10:12 PM Subject: Re: pay the rabbi and pray [...] 32597 25 28_Re: Deuteronomy - Am HaSefer12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 5 Sep 2005 23:27:27 +0200354_windows-1255 I heard Prof. Yair Zakovitch, prof. of Bible at Hebrew University, explain all the discrepancies in the biblical stories, including the Exodus, Mt. Sinai, all the rest. Someone in the audience then quipped, "so that means we don't have to do our Pesach cleaning?" to which Yair replied, "Scholarshp is one thing; tradition is another!" [...] 32623 58 26_Re: pay the rabbi and pray0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 20:40:36 +0000305_- Since I seldom wear a collar, it is difficult to get hot under it. I know that many counties have state-supported religion (are you sure about France) which is one reason why I like my country so much, at least until your buddy Bush completely brings down the wall between state and religion here. [...] 32682 52 47_Re: reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and pray0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 15:03:49 -0700560_us-ascii Well, so much for agreeing with Pearl, who wrote: The religious sacrifice much to make sure their children get proper education.

I only have 1 child, and I am not religious, but I sacrifice much to make sure that my child gets a proper progressive education (and I pay to belong to a synagogue). My taxes go to pay for public schools (which I don't use) and the war in Iraq (which I vehemently oppose), to name just 2. It's not just the religious who are capable of sacrifice. Pearl will probably say something like "I didn't say only the [...] 32735 26 20_Personal Information12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:41:59 -0400352_ISO-8859-1 Over the weekend, somebody sent their telephone number to Habonet.

I don't mean to sound paranoid, but... messages to Habonet are archived on the internet and may be accessible to the general public. Unless you would like your address or telephone number posted on a web page, you shouldn't send them to the entire mailing list. [...] 32762 47 24_Re: Personal Information0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 22:50:45 EDT406_US-ASCII You are right and I didn't realize that I had sent it to Habonet until after I push the SEND key.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32810 35 40_Re: Shironim and being Jewishly critical12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 6 Sep 2005 23:03:25 -0400371_ISO-8859-1 Sharon wrote: > This is why at my shul (Reconstructionist, of course), we sing > > Oseh shalom bimromav > Hu ya-aseh shalom aleinu > V'al kol yisrael, > V'al kol yoshvei tevail > v'imru amen

I hear that more and more frequently. I think it's a tremendous improvement. It's always disturbed me that we pray for good things only for our fellow Jews. [...] 32846 33 26_Re: pay the rabbi and pray12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:12:27 +0200508_us-ascii Sharon wrote: I only have 1 child, and I am not religious, but I sacrifice much to make sure that my child gets a proper progressive education (and I pay to belong to a synagogue). My taxes go to pay for public schools (which I don't use) and the war in Iraq (which I vehemently oppose), to name just 2. It's not just the religious who are capable of sacrifice. Pearl will probably say something like "I didn't say only the religious make sacrifices." But her intent seemed pretty clear to me. [...] 32880 275 27_Fw: A call from New Orleans11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:17:02 -0700423_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: gluckman To: Harry W. * Gluckman Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 8:28 AM Subject: Fw: A call from New Orleans



Hi Everyone--please pass this on--Gitta

Subject: A call from New Orleans

I received this from a friend who owns a New Orleans Gallery in the French Quarter and he has asked to put a call out. Please read his email below: [...] 33156 161 19_Fw: Israel Close Up11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 09:35:54 -0700447_iso-8859-1 Comments? Feedback?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Delowe To: Jack De Lowe Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: Israel Close Up





----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Delowe To: Jack De Lowe Sent: 07 September, 2005 07:14 Subject: Israel Close Up



Finally someone has come up with a way of telling and distributing the good news from Israel! [...] 33318 122 47_Re: reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and pray13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 18:34:40 +0200315_iso-8859-1 for god's sake sharon -- does there have to be negative intent in every statement of fact? You are right, everyone sacrifices for their kids' education. Especially, those who send their kids to jewish schools in the galut and those who choose to send their kids here to private religious education. [...] 33441 95 47_Re: reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and pray0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 17:43:23 +0000429_- Actually Pearl's last sentence, "Not everything that is done in this world is done at the expense of someone else," is not true. It is clearly untrue when we are speaking about government expenditures. When the government spends money on A it has less to spend on B -Z. And, of course, when the government gives money to one person it must have taken it from another person. -------------- Original message -------------- [...] 33537 166 47_Re: reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and pray0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 10:51:14 -0700358_us-ascii Pearl- You prove my point by your attempted refutation of it. When you point out that "Especially those who send their kids to Jewish schools" are making sacrifices, your implication (intended or otherwise) is that this particular sacrifice is greater than someone else's sacrifice. That is what "especially" means (at least, in this country). [...] 33704 253 47_Re: reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and pray13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:59:55 +0200610_iso-8859-1 I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 7:51 PM Subject: Re: reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and pray





Pearl- You prove my point by your attempted refutation of it. When you point out that "Especially those who send their kids to Jewish schools" are making sacrifices, your implication (intended or otherwise) is that this particular sacrifice is greater than someone else's sacrifice. That is what "especially" means (at least, in this country). [...] 33958 455 11_shlom bayit12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:53:28 +0200596_ISO-8859-1 I agree with Pearl. My guess is that if the letter had been unsigned, that author (Pearl) would have received the benefit of the doubt that she was referring to the sacrifice for Jewish education, not sacrifice in general. Can't we all count to five before we attack? I admit that I also jumped when I first read Pearl's original line about sacrifice... but after rereading it, I saw that I had no case. Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 7:59 PM Subject: Re: reply to rdsmith:Re: pay the rabbi and [...] 34414 124 25_Fwd: Human Interest Story0_16_BERNSARA@AOL.COM28_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:35:34 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 34539 476 28_The Storm "No One" Predicted13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:00:53 -0400 35016 132 15_Re: shlom bayit13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:32:57 -0400359_us-ascii Amen, Jessica.

Just because some of us disagree with almost stand Pearl takes doesn't mean that every phrasing she uses in everything she writes needs to be picked to pieces.

Posting on Habonet shouldn't be a blood sport. Let's let some modicum of peace begin at home.

Bvirkat shalom, Judy Gelman

Jessica Bonn wrote: [...] 35149 28 34_Channel 10 news on-line, in Hebrew11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 16:38:42 -0500596_us-ascii http://news.walla.co.il/?w=/3850 You can read the articles or you can also click on the picture and see the video clip.







________________________________________________________________ Sent via the WebMail system at mjds.org









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 35178 85 15_Re: shlom bayit12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 14:55:45 -0700543_iso-8859-1 Amen to Jessie and Judy ( is there something to having a name beginning with "J"???...sue

--- Judith Gelman wrote:

> Amen, Jessica. > > Just because some of us disagree with almost stand > Pearl takes doesn't > mean that every phrasing she uses in everything she > writes needs to be > picked to pieces. > > Posting on Habonet shouldn't be a blood sport. > Let's let some modicum > of peace begin at home. > > Bvirkat shalom, > Judy Gelman > > Jessica Bonn wrote: > > > I agree with Pearl. > > [...] 35264 133 15_Re: shlom bayit0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 15:16:34 -0700393_us-ascii It was not my intention to pick nits, and I apologize if my messages appeared to be doing so. I read arguments that I felt needed to be refuted, that's all. Sharon









Judith Gelman Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 09/07/2005 01:32 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 35398 3072 35_The always compassionate Shas rebbe10_Ezra Salop16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:07:37 -0400 38471 110 9_For Steve0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 7 Sep 2005 20:44:01 -0400638_us-ascii Dear Steve

You have in the past posted things from Tom Friedman. I have suggested that you carefully read Tom Friedman's views. I am send you this devestating assessment of the Bush adminstration by Friedman from today's New York Times. Enjoy

Your Correspondent in Pittsburgh

Sam Flesher

Op-Ed Columnist Osama and Katrina Sign In to E-Mail This Printer-Friendly By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN Published: September 7, 2005 On the day after 9/11, I was in Jerusalem and was interviewed by Israeli TV. The reporter asked me, "Do you think the Bush administration is up to responding to this attack?" As best [...] 38582 27 12_Ovadia Yosef12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 09:02:29 +0200506_us-ascii Haverot/im Rabbi Ovadia Yosef who reached a sacrilegious nadir at a weekly Torah lesson in 2000 stated that 6,000,000 were killed in the holocaust because they were the reincarnation of the sinners of previous generations. To amuse his audience he indulges in nonsense doggerel rhyming Bush with Gush (Katif.) Yesterday he justified the death of untold New Orleans victims with "they were kushim (blacks or niggers) who never studied Torah. This is not a man to ridicule he is a man to fear. [...] 38610 202 40_Happy "Arrival Day," 2005 - weblog entry16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 04:38:50 -0400341_us-ascii As some folks interested in American Jewish history may know, "Arrival Day" - which marks "the arrival of the first Jews in New Amsterdam on September 7, 1654" - has become a feature on a fascinating weblog. The weblogger has arranged a fascinating assortment of information to mark this day for the last few years. See below. [...] 38813 37 55_Araft's Death: so why the different takes on the story?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 12:22:44 -0400606_us-ascii Haaretz English site headline:

Medical experts: Yasser Arafat died of AIDS or poisoning

By Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondent, and AP



CNN Headline: Had to include the lead paragraph since that's where the difference is:

Report deepens Arafat death mystery

Thursday, September 8, 2005; Posted: 7:02 a.m. EDT (11:02 GMT)

JERUSALEM (Reuters) -- French medical records show it is highly unlikely that poisoning or AIDS caused the death of Palestinian President Yasser Arafat in a Paris hospital last year, The New York Times reported on Thursday. [...] 38851 180 29_Michale Brown's padded resume13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:17:04 -0400619_ISO-8859-1 MIKE BROWN'S PADDED RESUMÉ. Legal Brief by Paul Campos By now, the basic contours of Mike Brown's ascendancy to director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (fema) have come to light. Journalists have uncovered that Brown had almost no relevant experience for the position and got hired by fema because he was a longtime friend of George W. Bush's close associate Joe Allbaugh. The story being reported, in other words, is that Brown was a lawyer who ended up with a crucial post in the Bush administration because of rank cronyism. This is a well-known Washington narrative: hotshot lawyer gets [...] 39032 223 33_Re: Michale Brown's padded resume0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:08:16 +0000480_- Does anyone know if the position of FEMA Director has to be approved by the Senate?









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 39256 466 13_Re: For Steve11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 16:54:01 -0700544_iso-8859-1 Sam

ANY comment I would make would piss you off. I am no more a Friedman follower than I am a Bush follower. When Friedman had something interesting to say, I posted it. (By the way, I don't personally think the article below is all that interesting or brings anything new to the table. But that is my opinion). When Bush falters in his leadership, I will see it and say it. It appears he could have done a lot better for the current crisis. But then, I am finding it difficult to locate the blameless. At least you have [...] 39723 203 14_Sam's Postings14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:21:28 +0000595_- Shalom Sam,

You made so many kind remarks in your in recent postings to me, that I simply don't know how to begin to respond. Actually, I am being facetious about being 'kind' and I do know how to respond.



Regarding my comment that failure to prioritize maintenance of public infrastructure in America is a bipartisan failure, you wrote, that I "" ... get all the details ... and then miss the main points... "". Your comment suggests that you may not sufficiently appreciate the scope of infrastructure as an issue. Therefore, I will devote part of this posting to [...] 39927 66 22_Documentary Hypothesis14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:30:40 +0000652_- Shalom Jessie,

The material in Deuteronomy ("D") that is repeated verbatim from Leviticus (part of "P") undermines a fundamental postulate of advocates of the Documentary Hypothesis, i.e., that "D" and "P" are identifiably different in their vocabulary and syntax.

More generally, the repetition alters the nature of what can be learnt from the Documentary Hypothesis itself. If these repetitions were not present, there would be a case that "D" was composed at a relatively late time for a religious revival in Josiah's time. However, since the repetitions suggest that "D" is composed of an unknown amount of older material, the [...] 39994 135 18_Re: Sam's Postings0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 22:12:24 EDT611_US-ASCII

In a message dated 09/08/2005 9:22:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

All I can say is go look at the CBO budget numbers on the internet, then this sort of thing won't surprise you so much.





I am glad you picked the CBO numbers. Now we are talking turkey. Social Security is not expected to run a deficit until 2050 by those CBO numbers. That shortfall could be corrected in any of a number of easy ways including raising the cap on income paid into FICA. This is not a radical suggestion It has been proposed by Lindsay Graham. [...] 40130 24 33_Re: Michale Brown's padded resume12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 23:21:15 -0400466_ISO-8859-1 When the history books are written, I hope these are the words by which Georgie is remembered:

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 40155 33 59_Re: Araft's Death: so why the different takes on the story?12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Thu, 8 Sep 2005 23:32:04 -0400497_ISO-8859-1 NY Times and Haaretz - why the different stories?

As in his life, so in his death. Yasser Arafat will remain forever clouded in mystery. ...

How did Haaretz and The New York Times come to such different conclusions, based on the same report? ...

The Times, after consulting with its own medical reporters, decided to rule out almost completely the probability of poisoning or AIDS. The Israeli doctors, and Haaretz in their footsteps, thought differently. ... [...] 40189 39 42_Re: I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life0_15_ronoren@AOL.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 01:00:50 -0400584_us-ascii Someone's got to propose it, so I will. "Habonet II", or as some would call it, Habonet Lite. NO POLITICS! NO SQUABBLING!! NO REASON TO APOLOGIZE!!! (see what I did there? Ramped up the exclamation marks!!!!) Because not everyone can stomach it, for God's sake. It causes me to delete entire digests, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. How about a nice, friendly sidebar with camp stuff, kumzitzim, shiron, memories, culture, events, HD then vs now; you know, things that PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO PICK APART. Oh, there can be controversy. "What was in that camp stew??" for [...] 40229 140 42_Re: I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:54:16 +0200713_us-ascii Ron, read this and take heart.

http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of ronoren@AOL.COM Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 7:01 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life



Someone's got to propose it, so I will. "Habonet II", or as some would call it, Habonet Lite. NO POLITICS! NO SQUABBLING!! NO REASON TO APOLOGIZE!!! (see what I did there? Ramped up the exclamation marks!!!!) Because not everyone can stomach it, for God's sake. It causes me to delete entire digests, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. [...] 40370 210 42_Re: I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 05:39:40 EDT556_US-ASCII

In other words ronoren, what you would like is to remember a Habonim with no values, no ideas, no ideals, no direction, no meaning and no reason to exist other than to have kumsiztim and rikdud s Ron you would like to go through the shironim and delete the offensive political songs by Bob Dylan and Phil Oches and other squabbles. And certainly we can delete any memory we had of "sicha" and peolot at camp or in the movement where we talked about social justice. I just came away from a Young Judeah camp and even they were talking [...] 40581 183 18_A song for RonOren0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 05:53:04 EDT304_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/09/2005 1:01:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ronoren@AOL.COM writes:

, I'm done. Pick it apart. See if you can figure out what this song is about and why I dedicate it to you. See if you can figure out who Jeremy is.

Jeremy Words and Music by Sam Flesher [...] 40765 404 15_Yiddish theatre16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 09:15:23 -0400576_us-ascii The Jerusalem Post Internet Edition

The new face of Yiddish theater

------------------------------------------------------------------------ KELLY HARTOG, THE JERUSALEM POST Sep. 7, 2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------

In an up-market area of the Beverly/Fairfax district of Los Angeles, a trendy cafe' is packed with lunch hour patrons and would be screenwriters tapping away at their laptops. But just about everyone stops what they're doing and turns as Lisa Fishman bounds into the space. [...] 41170 24 42_Re: I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:33:00 -0400306_us-ascii >>> Someone's got to propose it, so I will. "Habonet II", or as some would call it, Habonet Lite. NO POLITICS! NO SQUABBLING!! NO REASON TO APOLOGIZE!!! <<<

The chutzpah! Taking away the little bit of joy in our lives!! (Just kidding.) It sounds like a good idea. Let's give it a try. [...] 41195 380 25_Union response to Katrina0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:43:36 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 41576 494 39_...a truer moment could not be found...13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:30:16 -0400469_iso-8859-1 Message A happy accident, or an executive producer with a great sense of humor?





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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 42071 141 73_NOLA Federation looking for the following members of the Jewish Community13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 16:51:04 -0400479_us-ascii Although it is tempting to repeat the joke about the big Jewish donor on the desert island, I'll refrain. Instead, I will simply ask you to forward this to your other Jewish contacts to help with the task of helping NOLA Federation to locate missing people.

Judy Gelman



The New Orleans Federation is anxious to learn of the whereabouts of the following people. If you know anything at all, please contact Adam Bronstone at adam@jewishnola.com [...] 42213 418 43_Re: ...a truer moment could not be found...0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:22:51 -0700694_us-ascii I love it -- thanks!

Sharon









Yuval Warshai Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 09/09/2005 12:30 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: ...a truer moment could not be found...





A happy accident, or an executive producer with a great sense of humor?





The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 42632 81 11_Re: Nitpick0_15_ronoren@AOL.COM31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 02:14:12 -0400527_us-ascii Hello Sam, Thanks for weighing in on the issue. In fact, thanks for proving my point! The way you spoke for me, it's...spooky!! And we've never even met! Nope, you don't know a thing about me. But you read my post and were somehow able to glean a wonderful world of Revisionist History out of it. No, really, I do appreciate the way you were able to put a spin on what I wrote and then manufacture a really, really, um, CREATIVE tangent out of it. Well done! And a song, too. Well, I don't think I've ever been a [...] 42714 97 55_Sam's Song was, I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life.12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:52:57 +0200572_us-ascii >Sam, There is a Yiddish expression, Oif tzu zoggen und oif tzu zinggen (rough translation: "for saying and for singing".) Ostensibly it related to Moses and his older sister Miriam; he, the great law giver of Mount Sinai and she, who led the Israelite women in song after the crossing of the Reed Sea. I remember sitting with you on the porch of Gesher Haziv's guest house translating the songs for the siyum of your workshop. I strained for apt phrases, you kept reining me in with considerations of meter and rhyme. My strain and your reins were eased by [...] 42812 124 11_Re: Nitpick0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:59:00 +0000468_- Extremely well stated Ron, but will Habonet Lite allow posts on Shabot?









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 42937 29 11_Re: Nitpick11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 10:53:05 -0400604_iso-8859-1 It's spelled shabooty on all of my albums...

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 9:59 AM Subject: Re: Nitpick



> Extremely well stated Ron, but will Habonet Lite allow posts on Shabot? >

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 42967 131 31_Fw: joyce's letter to St. Dept.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:56:23 -0700691_utf-8 Is there truth to this?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:36 PM Subject: joyce's letter to St. Dept.





Please write your own letter and fax it to: (202) 736-4461 Copy the President at: president@whitehouse.gov

Dear Secretary Rice,

The State Department has dropped Israel from Hurricane relief credits and has avoided any mention of Israeli participation in the international aid effort for the victims of Katrina for fear of offending Arabs. This is an outrageous misrepresentation of fact since Israel was one of the first nations to offer relief. It has even sent [...] 43099 1084 45_Fw: outrageous dhimmitude at State Department11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 07:59:21 -0700522_iso-8859-1 After sending the first post, I found this one.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 2:12 PM Subject: outrageous dhimmitude at State Department





Call State Department and object: Phone: (202) 647-5291, You can FAX THEM as well AT (202) 736-4461 If you are going to do it... then please fax SOONER than LATER and please try to leave a message today....if you can get through. If not, call back on Sunday again. [...] 44184 97 35_Re: Fw: joyce's letter to St. Dept.12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 08:10:21 -0700575_iso-8859-1 NO! (although at first they did refuse help- my boss called Sharon's office the first day after we heard Israel offered help, and was told the US refused)- but now, an El AL plane with 90 tons of cargo-medical supplies, food, etc- was sent with cooperation from the JNF and Osem...I think it landed Thursday in Arkansas -using that state as a staging area. Check out also JTA ( www.jta.org) or the JNF website..also- heard it on a list of foreign countries sending aid both on TV and radio....But in the beginning- Bush stated in a press ocnference, that "we [...] 44282 129 59_Re: Sam's Song was, I NEVER saw such nitpicking in my life.0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:15:37 EDT513_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/10/2005 2:53:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

he, the great law giver of Mount Sinai and she, who led the Israelite women in song after the crossing of the Reed Sea.

And I know exactly want by Reed sea.



I remember sitting with you on the porch of Gesher Haziv's guest house translating the songs for the siyum of your workshop. I strained for apt phrases, you kept reining me in with considerations of meter and rhyme. [...] 44412 86 12_Sam's Song 212_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 17:17:56 +0200644_iso-8859-1 Haverot/im In the early days of Israel’s War of Liberation Ben Gurion ordered all army kitchens to observe kashrut. That was not because he had suddenly become Orthodox but because he needed every potential soldier. Also he didn’t want there to be separate units. His reasoning was that while secular Jews could eat kosher food, observant and traditional soldiers could not eat non kosher food. Simple, pragmatic, unifying. Subsequently hospitals, schools, ships and airplanes were also koshered and have remained so. Was there a commensurate accommodation by all the orthodox to vox populi, to the notion that all Israelis are [...] 44499 23 10_nitpicking16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:10:35 -0400640_ISO-8859-1 Write on, Sam. Incidentally, the Talmud is all about the rabbis arguing with each other--intergenerationally, even--about serious issues. Occasionally one would characterize another's opinion as "b'dutah", foolishness. Strident discussion is part and parcel of the Jewish tradition. Indeed, it's our traditional mode of learning.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 44523 22 13_nitpick redux16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:18:03 -0400626_ISO-8859-1 One further point I neglected to mention. Perhaps we could lower the decibel level on ad hominem characterizations and attributions. Nor should we necessarily call into question personal motivations. Else we are all fools, idiots and poltroons motivated by base greed, self-aggrandizement and venality. Howzaboutit?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 44546 49 14_Re: nitpicking0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:55:09 EDT400_US-ASCII nicely said Elihu

Sam

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 44596 42 35_Re: Fw: joyce's letter to St. Dept.0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:57:09 EDT719_UTF-8 from YESTERDAY'S JTA News........



Bush commends Israeli aid

President Bush acknowledged Israel’s contribution to Gulf Coast hurricane relief efforts. An El Al plane with 80 tons of food packages, diapers, beds, blankets, generators and other essentials arrived in Little Rock, Ark. on Thursday, and from there was to be sent to Louisiana and other affected areas in the Gulf Coast region. Supervised by military logistics officers and representatives of Israel’s Health and Foreign Ministries, the airlift included humanitarian and medical experts. The Jewish National Fund helped pay for the shipment. Speaking Friday in Washington, Bush singled out Israel’s contribution, along [...] 44639 336 77_JTA - Israeli offer of expert assistance
turned away in days after Katrina0_15_debalev@AOL.COM31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 15:59:45 -0400589_iso-8859-1 More from yesterday's JTA news. _____



Following is an article from JTA — The Global News Service of the Jewish People. For in-depth coverage of the latest developments affecting Jews all over the world, click: www.jta.org

Israeli offer of expert assistance
turned away in days after Katrina By: Ron Kampeas

WASHINGTON, Sept. 9 (JTA) — The United States turned down offers of expert assistance from Israel and other nations in the crucial first days after Hurricane Katrina took its toll on New Orleans, JTA has learned. [...] 44976 4575 28_Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:26:14 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 49552 110 26_Re: Documentary Hypothesis13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 21:41:01 -0400503_iso-8859-1 Dear Marty,

I happen to be very interested in this thread and/or subject. I have my own serious doubts about critical biblical scholarship in general and the Documentary Hypothesis [as postulated by Richard Friedman] in particular. But let's get some basic facts straight first, before we can proceed.

You wrote:

From: "Martin Goodman" To: Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2005 9:30 PM Subject: Documentary Hypothesis [...] 49663 4612 32_Re: Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:41:05 +0000729_- Rather insulting to baboons isn't it?



> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 54276 57 26_Re: Documentary Hypothesis0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 10 Sep 2005 22:04:38 EDT436_US-ASCII Wow Yuval

Very scholarly

I am impressed

Sam

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 54334 38 25_a request for my daughter11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 06:47:38 -0500598_us-ascii If someone at the central office can do this it would be very much appreciated...

Her e-mail is: aynavb2002@yahoo.com

Thanks, Rozzie

Imma, I went to the Misrad Haklita this morning in Kfar Saba. They said I needed a bank confirmation and a confirmation from Habonim Dror or Mashabei Sadeh that can prove that I volunteered there. Because they said I was here for more than 4 months straight, and they said that I have to get a confirmation about studies. I forgot Habonim's website or email address, I need to let them know that I need this confirmation about my [...] 54373 51 17_Re: nitpick redux16_Katherine Lavine26_holycowfoods@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 12:23:05 -0700562_US-ASCII This is where I think some change would be welcome. In the tone of answers, and on personal attacks. As to subject matter, Ron my dearest, that's what the delete button is all about. Many of the political tirades are only entered into by a few, yet reminiscenses about music seem to get the juices flowing in the most remote of lurkers, and those less inclined to enter into the battlefield of ideas. I think there's room for both. Just engage in the part that interests you, and leave the rest to the die-hards. The politic nashing of teeth seems [...] 54425 48 30_Separation of church and state0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 20:18:22 +0000631_- Jon,

You stated that France has a state religion a week or so ago. I did some checking since then and this is apparently untrue. I found this in an encyclopedia on line:

Since 1905, France has had a law requiring separation of church and state, prohibiting the state from recognizing or funding any religion. According to the French constitution, freedom of religion was already a constitutional right. The 1905 law on secularity was highly controversial at the time. France adheres to the notion of laïcité, that is, noninterference of the government into the religious sphere and noninterference of religion [...] 54474 27 34_Re: Separation of church and state12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 17:05:58 -0400286_ISO-8859-1 > Jon, > > You stated that France has a state religion a week or so ago. I did > some checking since then and this is apparently untrue.

I think what Jon wrote was that France has a Chief Rabbi, which it does, not that it has a state religion, which it does not. [...] 54502 38 34_Re: Separation of church and state0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:00:01 +0000360_- This is what he said, "Anyhow, before you get hot under the collar about it, Israel isn't the only Western country that has state-supported clergy. France and Britain also have state-run and supported religions."

I am not trying to pick on him, like I said, there are plenty of other examples of countries that do, just France isn't one of them. [...] 54541 28 34_Re: Separation of church and state12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 11 Sep 2005 18:14:56 -0400460_ISO-8859-1 Richard wrote: > This is what he said, "Anyhow, before you get hot under the collar about it, Israel isn't > the only Western country that has state-supported clergy. France and Britain > also have state-run and supported religions."

I guess I saw "state-supported clergy" and missed "state-run and supported religion." Britain and France both have Chief Rabbis who are paid by the state, and that's what I thought Jon was referring to. [...] 54570 5804 44_Fw: A First: Chinese Jews marry in Jerusalem11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:01:41 -0700394_utf-8

Sorry

I don't have the source for this article.

Enjoy anyway.

Steve





From a Village in China To the Wedding Canopy in Jerusalem Wednesday, September 7, 2005 / 3 Elul 5765

For the first time, a Chinese Jewish couple will get married Wednesday in accordance with the Law of Moses (Halakha) under a wedding canopy in Jerusalem. [...] 60375 52 32_Re: Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:12:58 -0700692_iso-8859-1 Richard

I don't want to make trouble, but I would like to cast a vote against this as possibly not being funny. You have sent enough stuff that is funny, so I don't get this one. Maybe you could explain?

Steve



Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP



> Rather insulting to baboons isn't it? > > >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >> Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >> a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and >> an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ >> >> To unsubscribe email: [...] 60428 58 17_Re: nitpick redux12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:35:20 +0200616_us-ascii Kathee wrote

>This is where I think some change would be welcome. In the tone of >answers, and on personal attacks. As to subject matter, Ron my dearest, >that's what the delete button is all about.

I heartily agree. But what still needs to be addressed, in my not so humble opinion, is the legitimate place of value-laden discussions, too. As a movement, Habonim believed that values were crucial, that they merited discussion (the sicha) and those discussions were a hallmark of our educational system. We used to claim that our arguing principles made us superior (may we be forgiven) [...] 60487 116 17_Re: nitpick redux12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 07:29:43 -0700605_iso-8859-1 Ron was not decrying the values of intellectual discussion. He was decrying the guise of intellectual discussion for personal attacks. It is sad when high-level intellectual "discussions" deteriorate into name-calling, which has become the "norm" for some on this list. You go through a few interesting paragraphs, only to find the summation as a "below-the-belt" punch of unfair attacks or degrading name-calling. This is a value I was not taught in Habonim, and would hope that those who practice this will think more about the hurt and negative effects this has on thier "stands."--Sue [...] 60604 66 36_FW: Re: Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:19:14 +0000613_- ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: rdsmith1957@comcast.net To: Steve Klein Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:15:03 +0000

I was suggesting that comparing George W. Bush to a baboon would be insulting to the baboon. You seriously didn't get it?



> Richard > > I don't want to make trouble, but I would like to cast a vote against this > as possibly not being funny. You have sent enough stuff that is funny, so I > don't get this one. Maybe you could explain? > > Steve > > > Subject: Re: [...] 60671 67 36_FW: Re: Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:19:33 +0000419_- ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: rdsmith1957@comcast.net To: Steve Klein Subject: Re: Fwd: Fw: THE POWER OF MAKEUP Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:17:43 +0000

Sorry about my first response Steve. Since you are casting, "a vote against this...not being funny," you think its funny. Good one Steve. Missed the double negative the first time. DOH! [...] 60739 97 26_Documentary Hypothesis (2)14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:37:38 +0000691_- Shalom Yuval,

I did not write that Leviticus (Chap 17, verses 1-9) and Deuteronomy (Chap 12, verses 4-18) were identical linquistically. What I wrote was that "centralization" of sacrifice is taught in Leviticus [document "P"] and repeated in Deuteronomy [document "D"]. If "P" preceded "D" chronologically [the position of Prof. Richard Friedman], then the Deuteronomy passage was not essential for King Josiah's religious reform because "centralization" was already taught in "P". This undercuts a fundamental underpinning of the Documentary Hypothesis, i.e., that a central purpose of composing Deuteronomy was to promote a new doctrine of "centralization". It is of course [...] 60837 315 13_Daniel Gordis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:39:17 -0500586_ISO-8859-1 We returned to a country bereft of ribbons. When we'd left for England with the kids, Israel was festooned in orange. And blue. And white. And the cataclysm of the disengagement loomed.

We returned the day after the disengagement ended. And the first thing that I noticed in the car on the way back to Jerusalem was that the ribbons were gone. Almost completely. Overnight, it seemed (though it was longer than that), the orange had disappeared. The blue was gone. As was the white. It felt, climbing up the hills to Jerusalem, like a country in black and white. [...] 61153 563 29_Daniel Gordis - Re-engagement16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 22:40:32 -0400643_us-ascii ==========================================================

We returned to a country bereft of ribbons. When we'd left for England with the kids, Israel was festooned in orange. And blue. And white. And the cataclysm of the disengagement loomed.

We returned the day after the disengagement ended. And the first thing that I noticed in the car on the way back to Jerusalem was that the ribbons were gone. Almost completely. Overnight, it seemed (though it was longer than that), the orange had disappeared. The blue was gone. As was the white. It felt, climbing up the hills to Jerusalem, like a country in black and [...] 61717 99 27_On the lighter side of life11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 20:15:38 -0700437_us-ascii Search Failure in Google.











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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 61817 294 53_Daniel Pipes: "Christianity Dying in Its Birthplace"]16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 09:02:47 -0400460_us-ascii





Christianity Dying in Its Birthplace

by Daniel Pipes New York Sun September 13, 2005 http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2937

What some observers are calling a pogrom took place near Ramallah, West Bank, on the night of September 3-4. That's when 15 Muslim youths from one village, Dair Jarir, rampaged against Taybeh, a neighboring all-Christian village of 1,500 people. [...] 62112 67 17_Re: nitpick redux0_18_DLerner569@AOL.COM29_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 10:32:46 EDT458_US-ASCII I'm with Sue on this one. I find it painful when people I love throw stones at each other. It deals a double blow, because the facts and intellectual content (which I desperately need) are treated with disrespect. We have many important things to say and discuss. It is natural that we get angry about issues we feel and believe passionately about, but too often it takes no more than the heading on the e-mail to trigger more heat than light. [...] 62180 36 16_Atten: Moshnikim0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:01:33 +0000366_- Anyone know the words to "Don't throw stones at your Madrich?"

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62217 71 21_Fwd: if memory serves11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:29:09 -0400313_us-ascii trying again

Don't throw stones at your Madrich It isn't a nice thing to do Don't throw stones at your Madrich Even though he may throw them at you Think of the bad things he's told you And think of the mean things he's said Don't throw stones at your Madrich Throw Rocks at Schrier instead! [...] 62289 36 18_Atten Moshnikim II0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:32:18 +0000423_- That worked so well, lets try for Somewhere Over the Susquehanna, particlarly the two lines after "usually go away...."

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62326 62 22_Re: Atten Moshnikim II19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 13:45:19 -0700442_iso-8859-1 Richard, you're bringing back so many memories! I'm running these through my head and can't believe I remember most of the lines. Why don't you give us what you have so that we can fill in the blanks?

By the way, one of my kids said that Galil was credited with creating our version of Greensleeves. Does anyone else remember sitting at Teddy Szredni's table in the chadar ochel during a storm and working on that one? [...] 62389 39 10_susquahana11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:46:37 -0400405_us-ascii Somewhere over the susquahana way down south there's a camp that I heard of from someone who had a big mouth Somewhere over the susquahana skys are grey and the dreams that you dare to dream usually go away

I wish upon a Jewish star and wake up where the clouds are directly overhead where trouble falls in big rain drops and falls upon the garbage slops* that's where you'll find me [...] 62429 105 22_Re: Atten Moshnikim II0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:49:52 +0000481_- Before my time but I believe that the "Unique" part was made up at Mosh in 69 or 70.









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 62535 113 22_Re: Atten Moshnikim II0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:53:42 +0000288_- Ok, who can finish this one:

Ivan, Jacob

Ivan, Jacob, jingle Sam We’re the boys that eat no ham Give a yell, give a yell, give a good substantial yell And when we yell, we yell like hell and this is what we yell Alamen, alemen, aleman de ago, san de ago Hocus, pocus [...] 62649 32 26_credit where credit is due11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:00:33 -0400553_us-ascii I wasn't in the ohel, Orit, but I do recall that Greensleeves was a Mosh original.

What is the freakin' Galil symbol anyway?

The kids these days may know the song (at least they did a few years back, though Emily hasn't 'fessed up to knowing it) don't remember, but "your mama can't dance (and your daddy's an ugly ..." was not originally a Mosh tune. I first heard it at MB yood gimel from Reuben Stein of Tavor who I'm pretty sure wrote it. Believe we brought it back to Mosh the following year, 1976, though it could have [...] 62682 40 30_Re: credit where credit is due0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:05:59 +0000534_- Reuben's song, along with a few other classics were banned in the 80's when the Stalinists took over Mosh though it was still heard, though not in public settings, until the late 80s.



> I wasn't in the ohel, Orit, but I do recall that Greensleeves > was a Mosh original. > > What is the freakin' Galil symbol anyway? > > The kids these days may know the song (at least they did a few > years back, though Emily hasn't 'fessed up to knowing it) > don't remember, but "your mama can't dance (and your daddy's > an [...] 62723 54 30_Re: credit where credit is due19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 16:07:43 -0500630_us-ascii not sure what the symbol is, but i do remember where they wore it.

as for the "your mama can't dance" song, i remember ori scharf singing that, musta been '74....



lisa





>From: Noam Stopak >Date: Tue Sep 13 16:00:33 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: credit where credit is due

>I wasn't in the ohel, Orit, but I do recall that Greensleeves >was a Mosh original. > >What is the freakin' Galil symbol anyway? > >The kids these days may know the song (at least they did a few >years back, though Emily hasn't 'fessed up to knowing it) [...] 62778 16 30_Re: credit where credit is due11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 17:10:13 -0400466_- Well, even Reuben won't sing it these days, though when reminded it still brings a smile to his face.

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 62795 63 30_Re: credit where credit is due0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:13:48 +0000511_- Memories of Ori Scharf is why Sympathy for the Devil is in the Shiron I made. I have a vivid memory of him leading us through a version of it during a winter seminar in the Mosh midbach, probably in '74 or '75.



> not sure what the symbol is, but i do remember where they wore it. > > as for the "your mama can't dance" song, i remember ori scharf singing that, > musta been '74.... > > > lisa > > > > >From: Noam Stopak > >Date: Tue Sep 13 16:00:33 CDT 2005 > >To: [...] 62859 58 22_Re: Atten Moshnikim II20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:44:03 -0700440_iso-8859-1 I wish upon a ... and wake up where the clouds are directly overhead

Where trouble falls like big raindrops and falls upon the garbage slops

that's where you'll find me



Give me a while, and I'll fill in the blanks, I think.

Naomi

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [...] 62918 508 44_Fw: Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:45:13 -0700613_UTF-8

Any cooment I could make would be superfluous (and incendiary).

Steve



Subject: Fw: Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair



London Times The Sunday Times September 11, 2005 Ditch Holocaust day, advisers urge Blair Abul Taher

ADVISERS appointed by Tony Blair after the London bombings are proposing to scrap the Jewish Holocaust Memorial Day because it is regarded as offensive to Muslims. They want to replace it with a Genocide Day that would recognise the mass murder of Muslims in Palestine, Chechnya and Bosnia as well as people of other faiths. [...] 63427 56 8_Spelling11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 14:46:33 -0700427_iso-8859-1 That should have been "comment".

Steve



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 63484 110 22_Re: Atten Moshnikim II20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 20:24:31 -0400331_ISO-8859-1 Finally, a song ancient enough that I can contribute to this thread. Of course, trying to spell gibberish that I used to shriek is kinda hard. But anyway,

Alamen, alamen, alamen diego, san diego Ishkes pishkes hit 'em in the kishkes Hocus pocus try and choke us Achus pachus kiss my tuchus Yeeeeaaaaah Mosh! [...] 63595 48 30_Re: credit where credit is due0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:26:18 EDT577_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/13/05 5:01:47 PM, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes:

<< I wasn't in the ohel, Orit, but I do recall that Greensleeves was a Mosh original.

What is the freakin' Galil symbol anyway?

The kids these days may know the song (at least they did a few years back, though Emily hasn't 'fessed up to knowing it) don't remember, but "your mama can't dance (and your daddy's an ugly ..." was not originally a Mosh tune. I first heard it at MB yood gimel from Reuben Stein of Tavor who I'm pretty sure wrote it. Believe we brought it back [...] 63644 106 22_Re: Atten Moshnikim II0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:49:32 +0000516_- Thanks Shell,

I couldn't for the life of me remember the rest this afternoon when I was trying to but it came to me in a flash as I drove home this evening but it is nice to see that you remember the same as I.



> Finally, a song ancient enough that I can contribute to this thread. Of > course, trying to spell gibberish that I used to > shriek is kinda hard. But anyway, > > Alamen, alamen, alamen diego, san diego > Ishkes pishkes hit 'em in the kishkes > Hocus pocus try and choke us [...] 63751 65 30_Re: credit where credit is due13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:49:22 -0400445_us-ascii I was about to propose that we merge with Shomernet, since the political discussions are just about the same, when Richard and the quest for the words for songs for the shiron saved the day and reminded me why we are uniquely Habonet.

Judy

PS For those who don't get enough Israel politics on Habonet, Shomernet is open to fellow travelers like us and not just bogrei tnua . If you want details, email me directly. . [...] 63817 59 30_Re: credit where credit is due0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 01:52:25 +0000532_- Are you sure it went that way Hank. I remember it as:

Between our legs we wore the Galil symbol...has such a screwy way

O YEAH MOSH!! O YEAH MOSH!! YOU LOOK SO GOOD TO ME ...



> In a message dated 9/13/05 5:01:47 PM, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes: > > << I wasn't in the ohel, Orit, but I do recall that Greensleeves > was a Mosh original. > > What is the freakin' Galil symbol anyway? > > The kids these days may know the song (at least they did a few > years back, though Emily hasn't 'fessed up [...] 63877 81 30_Re: credit where credit is due16_Esther & Richard23_cohensteacy@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:55:34 -0400632_iso-8859-1 Yeah, my recollection was Peter Feld... same timeframe

----- Original Message ----- From: "lfmarsh@verizon.net" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: Re: credit where credit is due



> not sure what the symbol is, but i do remember where they wore it. > > as for the "your mama can't dance" song, i remember ori scharf singing that, musta been '74.... > > > lisa > > > > >From: Noam Stopak > >Date: Tue Sep 13 16:00:33 CDT 2005 > >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >Subject: credit where credit is due > > >I wasn't in [...] 63959 90 30_Re: credit where credit is due16_Esther & Richard23_cohensteacy@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:59:22 -0400570_iso-8859-1 ....hahahaha

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: Re: credit where credit is due



> Are you sure it went that way Hank. I remember it as: > > Between our legs we wore the Galil symbol...has such a screwy way > > O YEAH MOSH!! O YEAH MOSH!! YOU LOOK SO GOOD TO ME ... > > > > In a message dated 9/13/05 5:01:47 PM, nstopak@STARPOWER.NET writes: > > > > << I wasn't in the ohel, Orit, but I do recall that Greensleeves > > was a Mosh [...] 64050 100 30_Re: credit where credit is due11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:43:16 -0400650_iso-8859-1 I suspect that Peter learned it from Reuben at MB.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Esther & Richard" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:55 PM Subject: Re: credit where credit is due



> Yeah, my recollection was Peter Feld... > same timeframe > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "lfmarsh@verizon.net" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:07 PM > Subject: Re: credit where credit is due > > >> not sure what the symbol is, but i do remember where they wore it. >> >> as for the "your mama can't dance" [...] 64151 53 19_Attn: Moshnikim III0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:15:32 +0000385_- Sorry about this folks but as I am putting the finishing touches on the Shiron I wanted to fit in the blanks spaces some of the camp songs and, unlike Noam apparently, for some reason my memory is flawed and need some help again.

Please finish this one for me:

Moshava the best kvutsa in the country Our spirit is ever strong Onward we go, hey, forward to victory [...] 64205 21 16_HOUSING IN GALIL9_Naomi Jay21_naomi_jay@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 21:21:25 -0700 64227 56 23_Re: Attn: Moshnikim III12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:04:29 -0700544_iso-8859-1 "Chevra let's raise our voice in song"!--OY vey! I can' t remember my cellphone number- but I can remember that! sue

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> Sorry about this folks but as I am putting the > finishing touches on the Shiron I wanted to fit in > the blanks spaces some of the camp songs and, unlike > Noam apparently, for some reason my memory is flawed > and need some help again. > > Please finish this one for me: > > Moshava the best kvutsa in the country > Our spirit is ever strong > Onward we go, [...] 64284 63 23_Re: Attn: Moshnikim III0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 05:05:43 +0000496_- Danka shin Sue



> "Chevra let's raise our voice in song"!--OY vey! I > can' t remember my cellphone number- but I can > remember that! sue > > --- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: > > > Sorry about this folks but as I am putting the > > finishing touches on the Shiron I wanted to fit in > > the blanks spaces some of the camp songs and, unlike > > Noam apparently, for some reason my memory is flawed > > and need some help again. > > > > Please finish this one for me: > > > [...] 64348 50 20_Re: HOUSING IN GALIL14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:30:17 +0200493_iso-8859-1 I have a two bedroom apartment in Beer Sheva that just became available if you're interested.......

Dave Holtzer

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 64399 56 34_Re: Separation of church and state13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:43:13 -0400640_US-ASCII In fact it is exceedingly untrue. The French have a very strict church/state separationist doctrine they call laicete. So doctrinaire are they about this, there were cries of protest when the government sent the prime minister or foreign minister (I don't recall) to the Pope's funeral. It was France which ditched the idea of referring to Christianity as one of the factors contributing to European unity (in the proposed EU constitution). When Nicolas Sarkozy (currently interior minister) said he thought the government might want to start licensing imam preachers in the basement mosques in order to force out the radical [...] 64456 262 12_to Naomi Jay13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:44:18 -0400530_US-ASCII Wow, great rush seeing your name. warm regards,

twersky





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Naomi Jay Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 12:21 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: HOUSING IN GALIL







Shalom chevrah,

I'm planninag a 1/2 year sabbatical beginning January. I'd like to be in the Misgav area of the Galil since my son will be going to school there. [...] 64719 53 23_Re: Attn: Moshnikim III20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:28:42 -0700527_iso-8859-1 Moshava, the best kvutsa...

last line: Chevra, let's raise our voice in song

Naomi



--------------------------------- Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 64773 123 22_Re: Atten Moshnikim II8_cpristoo17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:33:37 -0400536_ISO-8859-1 >===== Original Message From Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh = Well done and I concur. Allan S. Pristoop ==== >Thanks Shell, > >I couldn't for the life of me remember the rest this afternoon when I was trying to but it came to me in a flash as I drove home this evening but it is nice to see that you remember the same as I. > > >> Finally, a song ancient enough that I can contribute to this thread. Of >> course, trying to spell gibberish that I used to >> shriek is kinda hard. But anyway, [...] 64897 185 30_Re: credit where credit is due0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:55:45 -0700431_us-ascii I learned it "Between their legs, they wear the Galil symbol..." I never heard it sung any other way at Gilboa or Miriam.

Sharon







rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 09/13/2005 06:52 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: credit where credit is due [...] 65083 114 46_Social Security, the CBO, and Senator Graham..14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:30:58 +0000625_- Shalom Sam:

In your posting to me, you wrote, "" ... Social Security is not expected to run a deficit until 2050 by those CBO numbers. That shortfall could be corrected in any of a number of easy ways... "".

Your statement is incorrect. According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimate, Social Security will begin running a deficit around 2019 (i.e., the annual cost of Social Security will exceed the annual revenues that pay for Social Security) and the Social Security trust fund (i.e., the cumulative surplus resulting from the difference between Social Security revenues and costs in the [...] 65198 59 50_Re: Social Security, the CBO, and Senator Graham..0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 17:53:53 -0400632_us-ascii Shalom Sam:

In your posting to me, you wrote, "" ... Social Security is not expected to run a deficit until 2050 by those CBO numbers. That shortfall could be corrected in any of a number of easy ways... "".

Your statement is incorrect. According to the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimate, Social Security will begin running a deficit around 2019 (i.e., the annual cost of Social Security will exceed the annual revenues that pay for Social Security) and the Social Security trust fund (i.e., the cumulative surplus resulting from the difference between Social Security revenues and costs in the [...] 65258 393 39_Fw: important article by Robert Spencer11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:54:52 -0700640_UTF-8

It seems a shame(among other things)that the $14 million couldn't go towards a better cause than a Jihadi feeding frenzy. (See article)

Steve





http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19469

Gaza: the Jihad Advances By Robert Spencer FrontPageMagazine.com | September 14, 2005

Shortly after attacking an Arab Christian family, Palestinians have turned to raiding abandoned synagogues in Gaza -- in a move reminiscent of their Nazi soulmates from long ago. Yet the PA's pledge to continue jihad activity, pullout or no, has been met with silence from Foggy Bottom. [...] 65652 123 50_Re: Social Security, the CBO, and Senator Graham..0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 21:56:48 +0000375_- It seems to me Marty that you have ignored at least a partial solution which would be for the federal government to stop running up absurd deficit spending. This could be done by not waging unnecessary wars and getting rid of tax cuts. Instead, of course, they want to continue cutting taxes even more with the inheritance tax the next lined up for the cutting board. [...] 65776 606 61_Fw: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:01:27 -0700795_UTF-8

Lest we let down our guard and think the world has changed. The ones that suffer the most for encouraging this kind of behavior are the Palestinians themselves.

Steve



Subject: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza





---

Media Excuses Palestinian Destruction of Synagogues September 13, 2005by Ricki Hollander, Gilead Ini

http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=33&x_article=973 As the IDF left the Gaza Strip, ending the Israeli presence there, Palestinians charged in, looting, burning and destroying the synagogues left behind. One can only imagine the international outcry had Israelis destroyed even one deserted Muslim mosque–the mere rumor that a Koran may have been mishandled [...] 66383 780 52_Fw: A New Approach To Fighting The Battle For Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 15:03:57 -0700616_windows-1255 Does anyone have information about this?

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Delowe To: Jack De Lowe Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 5:29 AM Subject: A New Approach To Fighting The Battle For Israel





It seems as though we are always fighting a reactive battle for Israel, one defined by Israel's enemies. And it is clear that the image that people around the world see of Israel is that defined by our enemies - death and destruction, terror and despair. As you all know, for more than 10 years I have used my newsletter to try to undo the [...] 67164 649 65_Re: Fw: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:23:03 +0000534_- So the Palestinians burned down some empty buildings. Who cares? I personally find it difficult to believe that the Israelis did not destroy some mosques that must have been left abandoned after the 1948 war.







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 67814 36 22_General reply question0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:24:40 +0000473_- Does anyone know why most of the time when I press reply to a message on Habonet to gets sent to Habonet but sometimes it only goes to the person whose message I am replying to.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 67851 122 26_Re: General reply question11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:44:11 -0400408_iso-8859-1 I believe it is a quirk of the email software they are using. Email comes with a header that describes lots of things, and among them are who the message is to, who it is from, and where to send replies. Usually the "reply to: field will point to habonet (the nominal sender), but in some cases, for reasons I don't understand, it points to the actual sender instead. Ain't technology grand? [...] 67974 45 65_Re: Fw: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:00:39 -0700657_iso-8859-1 THIS A GENUINE CALL FOR HELP. How is one to respond to this? I think Richard Smith wrote it. If not, I apologise.

Steve









> So the Palestinians burned down some empty buildings. Who cares? I > personally > find it difficult to believe that the Israelis did not destroy some > mosques that > must have been left abandoned after the 1948 war. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in [...] 68020 600 59_Fw: Israel: Massive arms smuggling into Gaza in past 3 days11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 14 Sep 2005 16:05:50 -0700556_UTF-8

When should we start worrying? This is about as ominous as anything we have seen (or am I just getting to be a worry wart?).

I would be concerned if we went in and cleaned it up. I would be more concerned if we didn't.

Steve

















--------------------------------------------------------------------



http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/05/front2453628.065972222.html



Israel: Massive arms smuggling into Gaza in past 3 days [...] 68621 80 45_Just take the Mezzuah with you when you leave0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 09:05:33 EDT584_US-ASCII

Just exactly who has an edifice complex here.

What makes one pile of bricks any more holy than any other pile of bricks. It was determined that we should level the very homes the settlers lived in "God-forbid" an Arab should move in, but at the same time the very same Rabbis who were prepared to tear the Jewish State apart over disengagement decided that our dismantling, or moving the synagogues would "be a sin". The sin was building them in the first place. Both I and the Palestinians would have much rather we had left the playgrounds standing and [...] 68702 315 28_Re-engagement/ Daniel Gordis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Mon, 12 Sep 2005 15:57:36 -0500586_ISO-8859-1 We returned to a country bereft of ribbons. When we'd left for England with the kids, Israel was festooned in orange. And blue. And white. And the cataclysm of the disengagement loomed.

We returned the day after the disengagement ended. And the first thing that I noticed in the car on the way back to Jerusalem was that the ribbons were gone. Almost completely. Overnight, it seemed (though it was longer than that), the orange had disappeared. The blue was gone. As was the white. It felt, climbing up the hills to Jerusalem, like a country in black and white. [...] 69018 68 44_Social Security and future health care costs0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:28:52 -0700561_us-ascii I didn't want to get involved in the discussion of whether or not there is a crisis in Social Security and when this undecided crisis might or might not kick in because there are too many numbers to argue over. But there is a gorilla in the midst (not mists) of the discussion, both on Habonet and in the "real world." Everybody seems to be in agreement that the future costs of health care will strain the financial viability of any pension or assistance program. And where will those health care dollars be going? If the present and recent past [...] 69087 55 17_money for nothin'11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:49:29 -0400626_- I'd like to address a different aspect of the argument put forth by my old friend Marty Goodman.

Marty, you said:

"The CBO conclusion that it will be possible to continue paying for 100% of Social Security benefits between 2019 and 2052 assumes that there will be money in the Social Security trust fund. However, the Federal government has not banked Social Security revenue surpluses. Rather, it has used them to defray its annual budget deficits. This practice (particularly during the Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II presidencies) has accumulated a total Federal deficit that currently stands at almost 8 [...] 69143 94 7_Grandpa14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:15:46 +0200525_iso-8859-1







Grandpa

An Arab- American family was considering putting their grandfather in a nursing home. All the Muslim facilities were completely full, so they ended up putting him in a Jewish home.

After a few weeks in the Jewish facility, they come to visit grandpa. "How do you like it here?", asks the grandson. "It's wonderful. Everyone here is so courteous and respectful", says grandpa. "We are happy for you. We were worried that this was the wrong place for you". [...] 69238 141 48_Re: Social Security and future health care costs0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 19:56:49 EDT602_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/15/2005 2:29:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV writes:

I didn't want to get involved in the discussion of whether or not there is a crisis in Social Security and when this undecided crisis might or might not kick in because there are too many numbers to argue over. But there is a gorilla in the midst (not mists) of the discussion, both on Habonet and in the "real world." Everybody seems to be in agreement that the future costs of health care will strain the financial viability of any pension or assistance program. And where will [...] 69380 54 21_Re: money for nothin'12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:25:19 -0400404_ISO-8859-1 Noam is absolutely right. There _is_ a Social Security trust fund, and it's assets are US Treasury securities. Here's where things get dicey.

If you or I hold Treasury securities in a brokerage account, they're valuable assets that are backed by the "full faith and credit" of the US government. But what does it mean when an agency of the US government holds Treasury securities? [...] 69435 183 21_Re: money for nothin'10_Ezra Salop16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:22:59 -0400537_us-ascii Except that the Federal Government's savings acct is not the same as your college savings acct. The Federal Government borrows for many things and is currently paying for these IOUs when it pays interest and principal on bonds. The Federal Government is in debt--too much debt--but it is in debt for everything it owes and not esp for the social security trust fund. In essence, the Federal Government bought its own bonds as the place to invest the social security money. (Maybe we would rather they bought Israel Bonds?) [...] 69619 294 21_Re: money for nothin'11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Thu, 15 Sep 2005 23:30:34 -0400474_iso-8859-1 And I have a firm commitment to my daughter's college fund.

But I agree we've been bamboozled (what a great word). My beef is that the congress and administration continue the scam to make their horrible budget numbers appear not quite as horrible and at the same time wring their hands that the IOUs are worthless and continue to cut taxes on the wealthy. Guess I've been bamboozled by my childhood socialist indoctrination to believe this is wrong. [...] 69914 38 49_Re: Just take the Mezzuah with you when you leave12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 06:57:14 +0200565_us-ascii Hiam wrote >Just exactly who has an edifice complex here. > >What makes one pile of bricks any more holy than any other pile of bricks. >It was determined that we should level the very homes the settlers lived >in "God-forbid" an Arab should move in, but at the same time the very same >Rabbis who were prepared to tear the Jewish State apart over disengagement >decided that our dismantling, or moving the synagogues would "be a sin". >The sin was building them in the first place. Both I and the Palestinians >would have much rather we had left the [...] 69953 254 42_And now for something completely different14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:11:49 +0200534_iso-8859-1 How many times have we heard people say that socialism is a dirty word? Well, I've got the proof. In an attempt get rid of some of the tons of spam we get every day, I keep adding words to my message rules. When Noam's message got dumped directly into my deleted folder, I read it carefully to see why. Sure enough, socialist turns out to be a "dirty word." See below (no offense to anyone who actually uses it, but we certainly don't need the spam). For obvious reasons, this message too will be dumped as soon as it [...] 70208 64 27_Sitting out the Days of Awe12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 07:35:26 -0700539_iso-8859-1 I edit a monthly paper, so I often have to decide if a story will be timely or relevant in 30 days. This year has been one of intense human interest; and I have found myself so emotionally involved, that, while I am safe, have shelter, family, clothing and food, I am exhausted from being the "observer" of such devastation and destruction, that I am dreading this time of year (again) as one in which we reflect and reflect, and reflect more on our human condition- I feel as if I haven't had a chance to take a break. We [...] 70273 80 49_Re: Just take the Mezzuah with you when you leave12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:23:39 -0700397_iso-8859-1 Dear Amnon and Rivka- I am not sure what you mean....Can you explain? I agree also with Haim- but comparing idol worship ( in its most defaming form) to a socialist-Zionist education and "chevrah" experience which focuses on "hagshama atzmit" is beyond my scope of understanding- unless you were being cynical...Then I take offense to that..B'yedidut and Shabbat Shalom-- sue(sie) [...] 70354 375 68_Fw: Iran wants to share nuclear technology with other Muslim nations11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:24:55 -0700586_iso-8859-1

Forwarded to me by a friend.

Steve







Iran Willing to Share Nuclear Technology Sep 15 12:30 PM US/Eastern



By NASSER KARIMI Associated Press Writer

TEHRAN, Iran

Iran is willing to provide other Islamic nations with nuclear technology, Iran's hard-line president said Thursday.

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad made the comments after meeting Turkey's prime minister on the sidelines of a gathering of world leaders at the United Nations, according to the state-run Islamic Republic News Agency. [...] 70730 193 65_Fw: Fw: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:41:37 -0700605_iso-8859-1

Amnon

I respectfully disagree.

In a response to Lhiam, I sent him these musings:

Lhiam

I apologise for not making myself clearer. You and I are on a similar page on this one. I was not saying it was sad that these buildings in particular were destroyed and looted. I was sad for the peoples of the region that such unbridled and vicious hatred, to the point of frenzied and uncontrolled destruction, was going to ensure the continuation of the same horrible cycle of events that has hurt so many so far. What did anyone expect from this situation? That [...] 70924 48 65_Re: Fw: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:02:28 -0700670_iso-8859-1 Richard

As incendiary (and insulting) as your statement is, I was wondering why you didn't do your usual thorough research to show us exactly times and places of these alleged events. It is not your style to make unfounded and rash accusations. Usually.

Steve

Richard wrote:



> So the Palestinians burned down some empty buildings. Who cares? I > personally > find it difficult to believe that the Israelis did not destroy some > mosques that > must have been left abandoned after the 1948 war. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by [...] 70973 137 48_Re: Social Security and future health care costs0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:21:03 -0700580_us-ascii And if Western PA has about 1% of the US population (rough estimates) and we assume Sam's numbers to be even ballpark accurate, that's $4 billion in retained profits in a year (2 billion in half a year). And that's just retained profits, it doesn't count actually paying for actual services (which they try very hard not to do anyway), or executive salaries which most of us would likely agree are on the high side, or Congressional junkets, or any of the other stuff they call "business expenses." But of course, the people who make the decisions about things like [...] 71111 55 21_Re: money for nothin'0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:22:47 -0700549_us-ascii Judy wrote: Except that the Federal Government's savings acct is not the same as your college savings acct. The Federal Government borrows for many things and is currently paying for these IOUs when it pays interest and principal on bonds. The Federal Government is in debt--too much debt--but it is in debt for everything it owes and not esp for the social security trust fund. In essence, the Federal Government bought its own bonds as the place to invest the social security money. (Maybe we would rather they bought Israel Bonds?) [...] 71167 35 21_Re: money for nothin'12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 12:49:30 -0400567_ISO-8859-1 Judy wrote: > Except that the Federal Government's savings acct is not the same as > your college savings acct. The Federal Government borrows for many > things and is currently paying for these IOUs when it pays interest and > principal on bonds. The Federal Government is in debt--too much > debt--but it is in debt for everything it owes and not esp for the > social security trust fund. In essence, the Federal Government bought > its own bonds as the place to invest the social security money. (Maybe > we would rather they bought Israel Bonds?) [...] 71203 4730 27_Shiron Final version Part I0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:10:20 +0000387_- Sorry to do this again but now we have the final version of the Shiron with additions and corrections. Again it has to come in two parts because of the limitaions of Habonet and I am sorry if I am loading people's mailboxes but this will be the last time I send it out to Habonet I promise. If anyone wants it in one part drop me an e-mail and I will send it out to you directly. [...] 75934 6290 20_Final Shiron Part II0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 00:11:23 +0000331_- Part II including the index

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82225 56 31_Re: Shiron Final version Part I20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 20:46:18 -0400591_ISO-8859-1 Actually, Richard, I'm too excited to speak! I don't think I've told you how great the shiron is. I think the selections are wonderful.

Tammy, have you been getting RSVP's? I shall be there with kugels on.

Shelly





On Sep 16, 2005, at 8:10 PM, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> Sorry to do this again but now we have the final version of the Shiron > with additions and corrections. Again it has to come in two parts > because of the limitaions of Habonet and I am sorry if I am loading > people's mailboxes but this will be the last [...] 82282 113 31_Re: Sitting out the Days of Awe0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 21:03:50 EDT624_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/16/2005 1:26:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

We have the emotional pull-out from Gaza, and whther or not one was "blue" or "orange"- the scenes of the destruction of homes, businesses, greenhouses, whatever, were no different from the messes in the Gulf States, Thailand, or Iraq. Whoops Oh my! Sue, I can't believe what I just read. 9,000 people were evacuated from Gaza. They had six months to get ready. They knew they would get hundreds of thousands of dollars in compensation. Most of them went to Gaza willingly even eagerly despite the fact that [...] 82396 480 31_Re: Shiron Final version Part I0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 02:53:02 +0000296_- Thank you Shelly, it was a labor of pure love. I'm looking forward to the kumsitz as well. As far as the Shiron goes...wel I knew this would happen. As soon as I saw Sam's post, the title reminded me of a song I had forgotten to include.

Sitting On The Dock Of The Bay Otis Redding [...] 82877 89 31_Re: Sitting out the Days of Awe12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:55:16 -0700415_iso-8859-1 I wasn't equating the fate of the people- just describing the destruction and human suffering. I am not surprised at your reaction, however- since you find such joy in tearing down everyone else. Perhaps you didn't see the tears and crying of the people who had to leave there--they were in pain, Sam--too bad you only notice suffering in the eyes of people who agree with you...Shabbat shalom- sue [...] 82967 85 31_Re: Shiron Final version Part I12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:56:33 -0700530_iso-8859-1 Shelly- I will be there too- can people bring Hebrew shironim?....susie --- Lon & Shelly Ephraim wrote:

> Actually, Richard, I'm too excited to speak! I > don't think I've told > you how great the shiron is. > I think the selections are wonderful. > > Tammy, have you been getting RSVP's? I shall be > there with kugels on. > > Shelly > > > > On Sep 16, 2005, at 8:10 PM, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET > wrote: > > > Sorry to do this again but now we have the final > version of the Shiron > > [...] 83053 176 31_Re: Sitting out the Days of Awe0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:15:30 EDT429_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/16/2005 10:55:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

wasn't equating the fate of the people- just describing the destruction and human suffering. I am not surprised at your reaction, however- since you find such joy in tearing down everyone else.

There you go. You ask for no personal attacks and then someone calls on something and you rip right away. Wow. [...] 83230 153 71_UK's Trade Union Friends of Israel in blog of UK magazine New Statesman16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:20:12 -0400897_us-ascii Following is Eric Lee's little article about the UK's Trade Union Friends of Israel for blog of the magazine New Statesman. Note that no one [yet] has added a comment ... you can be one of the first.

It's here:

http://www.newstatesman.co.uk/conferenceblog/2005/09/14/israel-on-the-fringe/



Israel on the fringe

14 September 2005 0 comments



The annual fringe meeting of Trade Union Friends of Israel (TUFI) gave me a sense of deja vu all over again. In 2005, as in 2004, His Excellency, the Israeli Ambassador, spoke. So did a representative of the Histadrut , Israel's national trade union centre. (Though this year [...] 83384 661 42_The Best of Enemies - IPF Friday Issue 24316_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:34:39 -0400475_us-ascii





Washington DC, September 16, 2005 Issue # 243

The Best of Enemies

You have to wonder just who is developing the Palestinians' strategy for achieving statehood. Or is nobody in charge?

The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza was an opportunity to show the world that it has nothing to fear from a Palestinian state and that once the occupation ends and Palestinians run their own lives, the era of lawlessness will be over. [...] 84046 59 65_Re: Fw: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 04:12:03 +0000500_- from Elihu D. Davison's post:

And what about mosques in Israel? According to Thursday’s Ha’aretz, “Of 140 mosques abandoned in Israel in 1948, 100 have been completely destroyed and 40 are either in an advanced state of deterioration or serve as stores, warehouses or garages.”

Well Steve, is that sufficent? When I wrote my post I was just guessing because it seemed so logical. Now I have Ha'aretz backing me up. So was my statement really incendiary and insulting? Was yours? [...] 84106 19 27_Re: HABONET Digest - shiron11_Evelyn Abel15_abel@012.NET.IL31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:58:30 +0200415_windows-1255 Where does one actually see the shiron?

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 84126 107 65_Re: Fw: excusing Arab Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 07:51:23 -0700561_iso-8859-1 Richard

I can't praise you for doing the research on this one, as it appears that it fell into your lap.

As long as you are willing, I personally, would like to have more of the story, if that is possible. Did the mosques come down as the result of a frenzied Jewish population descending on mass with torches, yelling "God is great!", or did they fall apart over time, as a result of vandalism, disuse or rebuilding? It would make a difference to me. I appreciate your efforts on this research. If it turns out that the former is [...] 84234 29 15_Gaza withdrawal16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 10:56:55 -0400601_ISO-8859-1 I recently heard a presentation (here in New Jersey) by the mayor of Sderot, an Israeli town bordering on Gaza. The mayor (regrettably, I now forget his name) is a hard Likudnik, vehemently opposed the Gaza withdrawal because he felt that the Israeli presence in Gaza gave some added protection to his town, which was and is a regular target of PA katyusha rocket attacks. At the same time, he also recognizes that the Gaza settlements got government subsidies at a level that deprived his town, poor and needing significant development assistance, of needed aid. He's on the horns of [...] 84264 41 23_Habonim in South Africa0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 17:42:50 -0400491_us-ascii Minister Herzog helps South Africa celebrate 75 years of Habonim

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/625664.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 84306 123 35_Fw: Fw: Sitting out the Days of Awe11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 17 Sep 2005 23:06:29 -0700491_iso-8859-1 >> >> Sue >> >> Beautifully written. >> >> Steve >> >> >> Subject: Sitting out the Days of Awe >> >> >> >I edit a monthly paper, so I often have to decide >> if a >> > story will be timely or relevant in 30 days. This >> year >> > has been one of intense human interest; and I have >> > found myself so emotionally involved, that, while >> I am >> > safe, have shelter, family, clothing and food, I >> am >> > exhausted from being the "observer" of such >> > devastation and [...] 84430 29 32_Question to the chevre in Israel16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL31_Sun, 18 Sep 2005 02:26:44 -0400665_iso-8859-1 So what do you think? Is it okay to wear orange now? I got a couple of really nice shirts in the closet that I would love to start wearing again. Probably not yet, huh?

Avi Rosenberg Gezer





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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 84460 36 47_Re: Palestinian looting and destruction in Gaza12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 18 Sep 2005 21:30:05 +0200566_us-ascii Haverim/ot Let's say I break the door to my neighbor's home and although my home is larger and I'm far richer I stay in his hovel 38 years. I bring in some of the refinements from my place, air conditioning, running water, the works. And then for whatever reason, I want to consolidate my holdings and restrict my holdings to my original home alone. Then, many neighbors of my old neighbor are so angry at me that they over-run the improved hovel destroy nice furniture break windows and pull electrical wires out of the walls taking them home to hang [...] 84497 36 8_Question0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:47:18 +0000340_- How can I view the Habonet archives?

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84534 118 12_Re: Question11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:03:32 -0400441_iso-8859-1 Richard,

Go to http://listserv.shamash.org/archives/habonet.html

You may or may not need to do a free registration. I don't recall...

Noam

p.s. thanks again for the shiron. I hope to be there on Oct 15. ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 3:47 PM Subject: Question



How can I view the Habonet archives? [...] 84653 241 33_Fw: FRIGHTENING ANTI-JEWISH VIDEO11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 07:14:12 -0700532_iso-8859-1

It's hard for me to imagine that the virulence of this sermon is repeated in the Mosques here in the U.S. Does anyone have anything about this?

Steve



Subject: FRIGHTENING ANTI-JEWISH VIDEO







Please click the link below and watch this shocking video. Read the words, and listen to the tone of the speaker. This is not an isolated case; it is routinely being taught in mosques. Being a Jew today means being concerned, informed, and never getting complacent. [...] 84895 100 19_Fw: is that a wall?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 08:32:45 -0700441_iso-8859-1

The irony is only increased by the fact that it is the BBC reporting this. There doesn't seem to be much criticism of the Egytians doing this to their Palestinian brothers and sisters.

Steve



Subject: Fw: is that a wall?









http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4258122.stm

Is that a wall I see being constructed to keep the Palestinians out of Egypt? [...] 84996 25 23_Re: Fw: is that a wall?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:29:34 -0400428_- Maybe they are doing it because they have an agreement with Israel to control the border?

The irony I see is that if they weren't going this, you would be flooding us with articles about their failure to control the border. Oh, gee, actually you already did.

At least we can applaud your scholarship. Well, no, actually it appears that all this stuff falls into your lap. Hope you have an absorbant napkin. [...] 85022 36 23_Re: Fw: is that a wall?0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:58:34 +0000272_- I think you are being unfair to poor lil' Steve, Noam. His point is that Egyptians find the need to build a wall just like the Israelis have so we shouldn't criticize the Israelis for doing it. Of course the Egyptians are building it on their own land aren't they? [...] 85059 54 39_Totem Poles Slogans and Bumper Stickers12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:43:03 +0200617_us-ascii Haverot/im Capture the flag was fun at camp. Slogans are great for anti-intellectuals and bumper stickers are forever unless they were put on with cheap glue. But the commonplace becomes scary when movements recycle the slogans and pictorials of their opponents. Recently when disengagement was mooted orange ribbons were tied to many cars here. The color was chosen by the mitnachlim after people in Gush Katif discovered that the public at large was angry at the history of the color. First, some people in Gush Katif began pining yellow stars of David on their clothing with "Jude" printed in black. [...] 85114 66 43_Re: Totem Poles Slogans and Bumper Stickers0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:54:43 EDT635_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/19/2005 2:43:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:



> Soon the termites came out of the woodwork

Actually, I think the termites have bored deeper in to the foundation woodwork of our house. Little do they know that we have already begun to replace it with steel.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 85181 124 43_Re: Totem Poles Slogans and Bumper Stickers0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:22:12 EDT425_US-ASCII Dear Amnon.

I took the liberty to extract several sentences from your posting and separate and highlight them. This is a very sobering message and I wanted to see if I was actually reading those words right. . Yogi Berra said "It ain't over till its over" Now it looks like despite our wishes to the contrary "It ain't over even when its over." I have some other thoughts but I will save them for later. [...] 85306 75 23_Re: Fw: is that a wall?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:34:22 -0700455_iso-8859-1 Sorry No Am

Fresh out of absorbant napkins.

The point you missed by about a half a mile is that these articles find nothing to criticise the Egyptians for after the incessant roasting of the Jews for doing the same.

Love

Steve





----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, September 19, 2005 9:58 AM Subject: Re: Fw: is that a wall? [...] 85382 118 23_Re: Fw: is that a wall?11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:25:00 -0400336_iso-8859-1 Steve,

My understanding is that attacking someone's name is the lowest form if insult. Something I read somewhere along the way. Not something I can back with research or even a citation. I can only assume you are once again attacking my parents, since they named me. Glad you are taking the high road as always. [...] 85501 50 7_atheist11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Mon, 19 Sep 2005 19:55:16 -0600550_us-ascii An atheist was taking a walk through the woods.

"What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!" he said to himself.

As he was walking alongside the river he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. He turned to look. He saw a 7 foot grizzly bear charging towards him. He ran as fast as he could up the path. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing in on him. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to [...] 85552 738 68_DC area folks--[Fwd: 9/24: Shabbat service for peace and for Israel]13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 20 Sep 2005 07:11:06 -0400424_us-ascii Thought some of you might be interested.

Judy

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 86291 278 59_Fwd: #605: Pipes in NY Sun on "Musharraf's Historic Speech"16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 20 Sep 2005 09:36:49 -0400678_us-ascii





Musharraf's Historic Speech

by Daniel Pipes New York Sun September 20, 2005 http://www.danielpipes.org/article/2963

When the Malaysian currency tanked in late 1997, the country's then-prime minister, Mahathir Mohamad , said he had "definite information" that Jews were the cause. "We do not want to say that this is a plot by the Jews, but in reality it is a Jew who triggered the currency plunge, and coincidentally [financier George] Soros is a Jew." Mr. Mahathir went on to say that just as "the Jews would rob Palestinians ... this is what they are doing to our country." [...] 86570 523 63_Fw: Jewish & Interfaith events in Antiwar weekend in Washington12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 00:09:47 -0700426_iso-8859-1 Special AlertFYI, D.C.-area folks and others making the trek.



----- Original Message ----- From: The Shalom Center To: dlmandel@pacbell.net Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 11:43 AM Subject: Jewish & Interfaith events in Antiwar weekend in Washington





A prophetic voice in Jewish, multireligious, & American life Special Alert for Antiwar Weekend, September 23-26, 2005 [...] 87094 236 25_Muslims and the Holocaust0_16_BERNSARA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:19:19 EDT437_US-ASCII Muslims and the Holocaust

By Cathy Young The Boston Globe September 19, 2005

RECENTLY IN England, four Muslim-staffed committees appointed to advise Prime Minister Tony Blair and his Cabinet on issues related to Islam have come up with a recommendation: Get rid of an official event viewed as offensive to Muslims. What event would that be? A celebration of the Crusades, perhaps? No, Holocaust Memorial Day. [...] 87331 57 17_Re: David Kellman0_14_FIZNIK@AOL.COM29_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:56:05 EDT453_US-ASCII I unfortunately just heard today,and I am sure that some of you have heard that David Kellman passed away. I understand that he died about a month ago. He and I were in the Israeli Army together...along with Baruch Margalit who has also passed away..and Mark Hammel... I don't know anything more, and I don't know if anyone on Habonet does either, but if anyone who knew him would like to share any thoughts about him, that would be nice. [...] 87389 56 17_Re: David Kellman0_14_FIZNIK@AOL.COM29_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:06:37 EDT421_US-ASCII oops....did not mean to seem that Mark Hammel has passed away...I meant to say that just leaves Mark Hammel and myself left from the four of us ..who entered and went through Basic together...actually, David Kellman went on to become a Sargeant...so he did not go through Gdud Hamashin with Baruch, Mark and myself. Sorry about that mistake Mark...I know that you are alive..and I hope are doing very well. [...] 87446 146 13_David Kellman11_Sue Freeman19_sfreeman@CFL.RR.COM31_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:10:55 -0400613_iso-8859-1 Is this the same David Kellman that has a brother by the name of Don? Didn't he also have a sister that settled in Carmiel? ----- Original Message ----- From: FIZNIK@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 1:56 PM Subject: Re: David Kellman



I unfortunately just heard today,and I am sure that some of you have heard that David Kellman passed away. I understand that he died about a month ago. He and I were in the Israeli Army together...along with Baruch Margalit who has also passed away..and Mark Hammel... I don't know anything more, and I don't know [...] 87593 42 17_Re: David Kellman0_14_FIZNIK@AOL.COM29_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:13:43 EDT441_US-ASCII Yes..it is the same David Kellman...His sister's name is Judy Bennet.

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 87636 60 17_Re: David Kellman0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:20:14 EDT521_US-ASCII I have very fond memories of both David Kellman (from MB Hay) and Baruch (from Tavor)......thinking of them puts a smile on my face.

Debbie



"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 87697 59 17_Re: David Kellman0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:27:39 EDT341_US-ASCII I did receive an E mail from Gary Benett, David's brother in law. I am friends of both Gary and Judy and knew David through them. He lived in the Monsey N.Y. and died suddenly of a heart attack. He apparently had not been ill. All this came as a very big shock to his family. He left a widow and several kids. Very sad indeed. [...] 87757 51 17_Re: David Kellman0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 03:09:03 EDT400_US-ASCII What a memory. . . David Kellman with that shock of red hair, coming to visit us Habos in Yerushalayim in his army fatigues. . . . so proud of his fluent Ivrit and his army status. . . . I visited Baruch Margalit in San Luis Obispo the month before he died - what a loss of two strong Habo guys. . . . . . . what did David Kellman die of? Didn't he have lots of kids, I seem to recall? [...] 87809 291 20_Fw: U.N. Resolutions11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:56:41 -0700520_iso-8859-1

I know that most of us know most of this, but lest we forget:

Steve

PS If there are inaccuracies, please reply.



Subject: U.N. Resolutions





Why Israel is Suspicious of United Nations?

1. Before 1990, Security Council passed 175 resolutions, 97 were directed against Israel (It is 55% of all resolutions).

2. Before 1990, UN General Assembly voted on 690 resolutions, 429 were directed against Israel (It is 62% of all resolutions). [...] 88101 22 24_Re: Fw: U.N. Resolutions11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:54:41 -0400317_- Thanks for the refresher Steve. Always good to remember that just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

I'm curious why the tabulations on the resolutions only go up to 1990 - aren't more current figures available, or do the more recent resolutions focus on other countries? [...] 88124 22 10_shana tova19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:24:42 -0500469_us-ascii Happy New Year! check out this fun link.

http://www.danmeth.com/shofaridol.htm

lisa

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 88147 60 17_Re: David Kellman0_14_FIZNIK@AOL.COM29_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:25:47 EDT558_US-ASCII Aliya...David died of a heart attack. I think Sam had said that he had spoken to either Gary Bennet or David's sister after he had died. I had just seen David last year...and we had a nice time reminiscing. David was at MB and Workshop with me...and also, he was my roommate on Urim...we also went through Toranut together in the army..along with Baruch. I just saw Johnny about a month ago..he had come to the states to celebrate with his family, his Mother's 80th birthday. In some ways it seems like we have reached this stage in life, very [...] 88208 103 31_Tom Friedman on Likud elections11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:32:14 -0400585_- Any thoughts on which elements of Labor and Shinui might join Sharon if this comes to pass?

Noam

++++

September 23, 2005 Rooting for Bibi Is Rooting for Israel By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Next Monday, Israel and the whole Middle East will witness a hugely important election. Ostensibly it is a vote over when the Likud Party should hold its primary. But it actually is a vote over who will lead Likud into the next election - Prime Minister Ariel Sharon or his challenger, Bibi Netanyahu. If I could vote, there is no question whom I would cast my ballot [...] 88312 59 35_Re: Tom Friedman on Likud elections0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 10:53:28 -0700571_us-ascii Noam posted a Thomas Friedman column in which Friedman wrote: If I could vote, there is no question whom I would cast my ballot for: Bibi. Yes, pray for Bibi to crush Mr. Sharon and drive him right out of the party. That's where Mr. Sharon belongs.

Rather than address the question Noam posed, I want to comment on these few sentences of Friedman's. Call me naive (and you won't be the first), but I believe one should vote one's true preferences, rather than engage in strategic voting. A ballot asks you the question, "which of these people do you [...] 88372 103 35_Re: Tom Friedman on Likud elections0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 19:41:01 +0000314_- I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest that you, Sharon (or Friedman, for that matter), would never be a member of Likkud and therefore wouldn't be voting in the election mentioned anyway. I also think Friedman had his tongue firmly placed in his cheek when he wrote that. My opinion is worth 3 cents. [...] 88476 51 24_Re: Fw: U.N. Resolutions11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 23 Sep 2005 15:09:37 -0700658_iso-8859-1 Noam

Good point!

Please- if you find out the answer to the truncated date issue, let me know.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 7:54 AM Subject: Re: Fw: U.N. Resolutions



> Thanks for the refresher Steve. Always good to remember that just because > you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. > > I'm curious why the tabulations on the resolutions only go up to 1990 - > aren't more current figures available, or do the more recent resolutions > focus on other countries? > [...] 88528 68 28_Fw: Europe Died in Auschwitz11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:44:11 -0700601_UTF-8 Does anyone recognise this author? Is this legitimate?

Steve





> Subject: Europe Died in Auschwitz > >

>> The following is an article written by a Spanish journalist, Sebastian >> Villar Rodriguez. >> >> Europe died in Auschwitz >> >> I was walking along Raval (Barcelona) when all of a sudden I understood >> that Europe died with Auschwitz. >> >> We assassinated 6 million Jews in order to end up bringing in 20 million >> Muslims! >> We burnt in Auschwitz the culture, intelligence and power to create. >> We burnt the people of the world, the one who [...] 88597 77 32_Re: Fw: Europe Died in Auschwitz0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:35:28 +0000553_- A legitimate or illegitimate what? I assume it is the opinion of someone. I personally find its philosemitism unappealing and its anti-Arabism grotesque.



> Does anyone recognise this author? Is this legitimate? > > Steve > > > > > Subject: Europe Died in Auschwitz > > > > > > >> The following is an article written by a Spanish journalist, Sebastian > >> Villar Rodriguez. > >> > >> Europe died in Auschwitz > >> > >> I was walking along Raval (Barcelona) when all of a sudden I understood > >> that Europe died with Auschwitz. > [...] 88675 157 32_New Jewish counter-culture ... ?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 24 Sep 2005 15:43:14 -0400838_us-ascii

Please see this item on New Jewish counter-culture in B'nai Brith's magazine: http://bnaibrith.org/pubs/bnaibrith/THE_NEW_JEW.pdf And also this weblog article, from http://www.canonist.com/?p=183

Is this the New Heeb magazine? Based on the staff alone, definitely not. The people behind this thing have major chops:

Editor In Chief Mireille Silcoff (Author, youth cultural historian and former Senior Editor, National Post, Canada) Editorial Board Novelists: Jonathan Safran Foer, Gary Shteyngart, Lara Vapnyar, Etgar Keret. Journalists: Susan Dominus (New York Times), Alan Light (Spin, Vibe, Tracks), Sarah Fulford (Toronto Life), Mark Oppenheimer (New Haven Advocate), Minna Proctor (Colors) AJ Jacobs (Esquire), Jessi Klein (Comedy [...] 88833 36 14_Anti-war Rally0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 11:48:35 +0000540_- I was wondering if anyone was at the Washington march yesterday. From what I saw on C-Span I found it very disturbing. I was hoping that I only saw a little bit of it and was unrepresentative of the whole thing. Please report if you were there.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 88870 1480 14_Desert Sunrise16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:16:26 -0400388_windows-1255 I received the following email from an Israeli friend, and thought you might find it of interest. ----------

Dear family and friends,

I'm writing to recommend a very unconventional play - "Desert Sunrise" - about the Arab-Israeli interface, which is opening off-off Broadway on September 29th for a limited run of less than one month (see attached flyer). [...] 90351 23 28_Re: Europe Died in Auscwhitz16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 10:29:20 -0400550_ISO-8859-1 In Habonet #2005-266, Richard Smith wrote

>I personally find its philosemitism unappealing > In l'affaire Lewinsky I personally found Bill Clinton's philosemitism unappealing. I gather it also left a bad taste in Monica's mouth. ;-)

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 90375 179 33_SHARON OLDS' LETTER TO LAURA BUSH12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:23:27 -0700502_iso-8859-1 Sharon Olds is a poet who has won various antional awards, as well as being poet laureate of NY from 1998-2000. She currently teaches poetry to graduates at NYU. The following was forwarded to me by my sister- it is worth reading--sue

No Place for a Poet at a Banquet of Shame > a letter to Laura Bush from Sharon Olds > > Laura Bush > First Lady > The White House > > Dear Mrs. Bush, > > I am writing to let you know why I am not able > to accept your kind > invitation to give [...] 90555 209 38_Fwd: SHARON OLDS' LETTER TO LAURA BUSH12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:27:39 -0700561_iso-8859-1 Sorry if this came twice- somehow it went to my bulk mail...(?)..sue



> Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2005 09:23:27 -0700 > From: Sue Liberman > Subject: SHARON OLDS' LETTER TO LAURA BUSH > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > Sharon Olds is a poet who has won various antional > awards, as well as being poet laureate of NY from > 1998-2000. She currently teaches poetry to graduates > at NYU. The following was forwarded to me by my > sister- it is worth reading--sue > > No Place for a Poet at a Banquet of Shame > > a letter [...] 90765 131 18_Re: Anti-war Rally11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 18:41:29 -0400338_iso-8859-1



I know that A.N.S.W.E.R. was part of the sponsoring organization, and the last rally of theirs that I attended (back before the warm perhaps Jan 1992?) was a pro-Palestinian, anti-American romp. So even if I wasn't busy with other business yesterday I wouldn't have gone to the event near the white house. [...] 90897 173 18_Re: Anti-war Rally0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 23:14:10 +0000555_- C-Span doesn't report just shows (Zeus bless them) and what I saw and heard, though admitedly only a short bit, seemed to be a pro-Palestinian rally as much, if not more than, an Anti-Iraq war rally and lots of mindless hyperbole, like calling Bush evil. The same sort of thing we don't like about the Bush administration, i.e. seeing the world as black and white, only the colors changed sides. Most of the speakers I saw had wrapped themselves in kafeyas. I'll tell you, nothing could make me more anti-anti war than the part of the rally I saw. [...] 91071 173 18_Re: Anti-war Rally0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 23:19:32 +0000443_- Noam, did you really mean 1992 or rather 2002?









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 91245 34 18_Re: Anti-war Rally11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:50:58 -0400424_iso-8859-1 Yes. Guess I'm still livin' in the '90's...

Though now that I think about it those people were probably supporting the Palestinians and hating Bush in 1992 too

Noam

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 7:19 PM Subject: Re: Anti-war Rally



> Noam, did you really mean 1992 or rather 2002? > [...] 91280 43 18_Re: Anti-war Rally11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Sun, 25 Sep 2005 20:54:49 -0400436_iso-8859-1 True enough, and they do a fine job of it, though what they choose to show and what they don't show is still reporting in my book, at least in the sense that they are editing reality because they can't show everything.

The hijacking of the anti-war movement is what makes me feel it important to show up with signs that have a different message and/or to support other rallies with speakers who reflect my views. [...] 91324 50 18_Re: Anti-war Rally8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 14:20:23 +0200717_us-ascii I dunno. What's not to like? http://www.narley.org/protestPhotos/showList.php

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent: Monday, September 26, 2005 1:14 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Anti-war Rally



C-Span doesn't report just shows (Zeus bless them) and what I saw and heard, though admitedly only a short bit, seemed to be a pro-Palestinian rally as much, if not more than, an Anti-Iraq war rally and lots of mindless hyperbole, like calling Bush evil. The same sort of thing we don't like about the Bush administration, i.e. seeing the world as black and white, only the [...] 91375 66 18_Re: Anti-war Rally8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 17:02:23 +0200512_us-ascii C'mon Richard, this shot alone is worth the price of admission:

http://www.narley.org/protestPhotos/bigImage.php?id=14&type=N



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 91442 30 18_Re: Anti-war Rally12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:38:48 -0400364_us-ascii I was at the march so I didn't see the C-Spam* coverage, but...

International ANSWER, which seems to have inserted itself into the leadership of every one of the anti-war rallies, is some sort of Stalinist, antisemitic, anti-Zionist cult. Several Jewish peace organizations have begun to boycott anti-war rallies that are sponsored by ANSWER. [...] 91473 25 18_Re: Anti-war Rally12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:41:26 -0400532_us-ascii Jon Baum wrote: > C'mon Richard, this shot alone is worth the price of admission: > > http://www.narley.org/protestPhotos/bigImage.php?id=14&type=N

Well, whaddya know! They _did_ get a picture of me! ;-)

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 91499 44 18_Re: Anti-war Rally0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:08:10 -0700431_us-ascii At the fairly small (~200 people) march that I attended in Orange County (CA), the guy who did most of the talking made a BIG point of being pro-peace, rather than anti-Bush; and there was no mention of Israel whatsoever. Maybe because the organizer is Jewish, and ANSWER was busy with the main rally in LA. When I realized that the OC rally would be ANSWER-free, I felt even better about my choice to "act locally." [...] 91544 151 18_Re: Anti-war Rally0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 12:22:02 -0400661_us-ascii David - do oyu mind sharing who you marched with and what other Jewish groups were there?

Thanks,

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: David Fleiss To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 11:38:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Anti-war Rally



I was at the march so I didn't see the C-Spam* coverage, but...

International ANSWER, which seems to have inserted itself into the leadership of every one of the anti-war rallies, is some sort of Stalinist, antisemitic, anti-Zionist cult. Several Jewish peace organizations have begun to boycott anti-war rallies that are sponsored by ANSWER. [...] 91696 30 18_Re: Anti-war Rally12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 13:42:01 -0400353_us-ascii >>> David - do oyu mind sharing who you marched with and what other Jewish groups were there? <<<

I marched with the Shalom Center, in a group led by Rabbi Arthur Waskow. You can read his explanation of why he participated in the rally (with which I mostly agree) on the Shalom Center website and in his Op-Ed piece in the Forward: [...] 91727 95 24_"No Parking in Moroccan"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:55:18 +0200412_us-ascii











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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 91823 59 14_Re: susquahana14_Allan Pristoop17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:57:03 -0400580_iso-8859-1 I believe the name of the fellow who kept the pig to which we sent the ashpa was Bosun. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 4:46 PM Subject: susquahana



> Somewhere over the susquahana way down south > there's a camp that I heard of from someone who had a big mouth > Somewhere over the susquahana skys are grey > and the dreams that you dare to dream usually go away > > I wish upon a Jewish star > and wake up where the clouds are directly overhead > [...] 91883 564 16_JTA - Young Jews16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 21:43:01 -0400457_us-ascii













FOCUS ON ISSUES Study shows young Jews find offbeat ways to express identity By Sue Fishkoff NEW YORK, Sept. 20 (JTA) -- A new study of Jews in their 20s and 30s reveals that though these young Jews are under-affiliated with traditional institutions, many have a strongly defined Jewish identity that they express in creative new ways outside synagogues, JCCs and the federation system. [...] 92448 145 28_Bob Dylan: No Direction Home11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:57:43 -0700492_us-ascii To those who watched it: Wasn't it kick-ass? And to those who didn't, don't miss it; it's being repeated over and over again. Tomorrow part 2. And the two new CDs are also wonderful.





Batel

_____

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network , a service of Hebrew College , which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies . [...] 92594 87 32_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:03:44 EDT625_UTF-8

Totally kick-ass. Do Not Miss...do not pass go. Must see.

mm



To those who watched it: Wasn’t it kick-ass? And to those who didn’t, don’t miss it; it’s being repeated over and over again. Tomorrow part 2. And the two new CDs are also wonderful. Batel









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 92682 59 32_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 02:17:47 EDT484_US-ASCII Far f*****n out.

FANTASTIC. There are no words, it was so magnificent.

Debbie first in line for the DVD

"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 92742 186 32_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 06:40:32 +0000476_- I don't want to put my two cents in before I see the whole thing but wasn't Dave Van Ronk the best interview subject. I always liked that guy.









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 92929 46 32_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 03:19:21 EDT494_US-ASCII On the East Coast it's being shown with both parts together - it's from 9 PM to 11:15 PM - on the West Coast, in two halves, two consecutive nights. So check your listings.

Aliya

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 92976 93 32_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 07:11:45 -0400725_us-ascii DC area (MPT) is two consecutive nights. Wonderful! Can't wait for the kumsitz ! Judy



SC523@AOL.COM wrote:

> On the East Coast it's being shown with both parts together - it's > from 9 PM to 11:15 PM - on the West Coast, in two halves, two > consecutive nights. So check your listings. > > Aliya > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew College > , which offers online courses and an online > MA in Jewish Studies . > > To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 93070 61 11_shofar idol16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:02:42 -0400459_us-ascii

Check out:

http://www.danmeth.com/shofaridol.htm







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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 93132 572 34_HaAretz - A Mosque Once Stood Here16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:58:04 -0400633_us-ascii

w w w . h a a r e t z . c o m ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Last update - 16:29 16/09/2005



A mosque once stood here

By Meron Rapoport

It was as if Sami Hilmi of the Al-Aqsa Institute was waiting for a phone call. The scenes of destruction of the synagogues in Gush Katif had put Muslims in Israel on the defensive. On the physical defensive the police announced it was stepping up its security around the country's mosques for fear of Jewish attacks; and on the political defensive for years, Arab public leaders have spoken of the damage [...] 93705 937 27_YNet - Bush Supports Sharon16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 12:20:25 -0400458_us-ascii 10:50 , 09.25.05

Print



Foreign Affairs Photo: Reuters Sharon is more than an ally in the war on terror, Pinkas says. Sharon (L) with President Bush Photo: Reuters click here to enlarge text click here to enlarge text

click here to reduce text click here to reduce text





Why Bush is voting Sharon [...] 94643 842 38_Re: HaAretz - A Mosque Once Stood Here8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:29:40 +0200388_US-ASCII There was once a mosque here at Sasa. After a discussion and vote by the members, we had the army blow it up back in the '50's.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 4:58 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: HaAretz - A Mosque Once Stood Here [...] 95486 590 108_if this was circulated and I missed it, forgive me . It raises serious quesitons about the kibbutz movement.13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:09:58 -0400449_US-ASCII



Can the Zionist Left save itself?

________________________________

AMNON RUBINSTEIN, THE JERUSALEM POST

Sep. 20, 2005

________________________________

Between the elections of June 1992 and January 2003 the parliamentary representation of the Zionist Left - Labor and Meretz - dropped from 56 to 29 (including Amir Peretz's party). This is a 50 percent decline in less than 11 years. [...] 96077 160 14_Al Chet of GWB11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:19:08 -0500534_us-ascii High Holy Days Confessional >> >> by George W. Bush >> >> For the sin I have committed before you by promising to be a >> compassionate conservative, but showing no compassion. >> >> For the sin I have committed before you by waging an unjust war in >> Iraq in the false name of fighting terrorism. >> >> For the sin I have committed before you by waging a political >> campaign built on fear, not hope. >> >> For the sin I have committed before you by cynically exploiting the >> horrors of 9/11 for political gain. >> [...] 96238 149 20_Re: The Zionist left11_Don Goelman25_don.goelman@VILLANOVA.EDU31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:34:31 -0400739_ISO-8859-1 Interesting.

Anybody know the references - the "prominent anti-Zionist historian to head the Peace Research Institute" or the "renowned anti-Zionist academic who negates the idea of a Jewish state"?

>> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: if this was circulated and I missed it, forgive me . It >> raises serious quesitons about the kibbutz movement. >> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:09:58 -0400 >> From: David Twersky >> Reply-To: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh >> To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >> >> >> >> Can the Zionist Left save itself? >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> AMNON RUBINSTEIN, THE [...] 96388 37 21_Dylan in the Guardian0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 20:34:59 +0000366_- http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,1575422,00.html

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96426 48 32_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:56:27 +0200427_ISO-8859-1 Can someone repeat details of the Balto-DC kumsitz? I want to send them to some people not on Habonet. Thanks, Trudy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 96475 40 14_kumsitz update19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:33:48 -0500355_ISO646-US there are a mere three weeks until the dc-balto kumsitz! all are invited--alumni, current hanichim and families, and friends.

if you can, please rsvp to moshava@aol.com so we get some idea of how many.

here are the details: sat october 15 Adat Shalom Reconstructionist Congregation 7727 Persimmon Tree Lane Bethesda, MD 20817 [...] 96516 30 32_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 19:15:12 EDT376_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/27/05 3:20:39 AM, SC523@AOL.COM writes:

<< On the East Coast it's being shown with both parts together - it's from 9 PM to 11:15 PM - on the West Coast, in two halves, two consecutive nights. So check your listings.

Aliya >>

Acually we got it here in Philly for 2 hrs. on both nights. I can't wait until 9 o'clock. Hank [...] 96547 163 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 211_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 27 Sep 2005 22:49:29 -0700509_us-ascii Nothing like getting your ass kicked two nights in a row; though it did leave me hungry for more.





I have a feeling it's a hunger that can never be fulfilled.





Good night,

Batel

_____

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network , a service of Hebrew College , which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies . [...] 96711 636 112_Re: if this was circulated and I missed it, forgive me . It raises serious quesitons about the kibbutz movement.12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 00:17:00 -0700595_iso-8859-1 How far we've come! This guy who used to be a liberal, now spouts a McCarthyist approach to discourse. He sounds just like an U.S. neocon explaining why the Democrats have lost strength because they're too soft on Saddam, or terrorism, or some other bogeything of the era. Problem is, most Democrat politicians here seem to believe that, bending over backwards to sound hawkish when most of the public has turned against the shameful, deceitful war. I guess a lot of Laborites in Israel display a similar syndrome. When Likud A runs against Likud B, Likud wins every time. David [...] 97348 76 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 212_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 07:00:42 -0700570_iso-8859-1 This weren't no blowin' in the wind work--hope it comes out on dvd- Scorcese's interview afterwards was also awesome...Thanks for alerting me- and I hope they repeat Part 1...wow--Pete Seeger and Peter Yarrow and Rollin stone...It was like being high without the pot...sue

--- Batel Libes wrote:

> Nothing like getting your ass kicked two nights in a > row; though it did > leave me hungry for more. > > > > I have a feeling it's a hunger that can never be > fulfilled. > > > > Good night, > > Batel > > _____ > [...] 97425 83 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 20_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:37:25 +0000533_- It is out on DVD already.



> This weren't no blowin' in the wind work--hope it > comes out on dvd- Scorcese's interview afterwards was > also awesome...Thanks for alerting me- and I hope they > repeat Part 1...wow--Pete Seeger and Peter Yarrow and > Rollin stone...It was like being high without the > pot...sue > > --- Batel Libes wrote: > > > Nothing like getting your ass kicked two nights in a > > row; though it did > > leave me hungry for more. > > > > > > > > I have a feeling [...] 97509 59 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 213_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 11:59:32 -0400573_iso-8859-1 I watched both parts and it was incredible, awesome, in my view. A little sad too, I wish he'd come back!... You have to understand, I did not grow up with the stuff like people here. I am still reeling from the "kick," trying to understand better all the implications, the larger picture, etc. I was a little consoled by Scorsese's interview after, when he said (and repeated) that he himself had never heard Dylan growing up, before "Like a Rolling Stone." As Simon Schama wrote on the Guardian (thank you, Richard, for that great link): "For those of us [...] 97569 139 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 20_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:28:43 -0400442_us-ascii First a qualifying statement. Due to a variety of conference calls and distractions the last couple of evenings, I couldn't sit watch either program all the way through, so I recorded it all and only saw pieces here and there. Being a certified Dylan addict since around '64 living in Minneapolis, I have read everything about the program and want to be able to watch it one sitting with the proper refreshments and atmosphere. [...] 97709 142 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 211_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:57:17 -0400 97852 276 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 213_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 12:59:05 -0400599_iso-8859-1 Ken,

I was not aware he's still "performing almost daily and challenging his audiences." I agree that it is quite a gift, indeed. I was referring in part, for example, to what Joan Baez said in one of those almost blipped out for profanity passages: "Bob Dylan is not going to be there tonight, or any other night for that matter, you moron!" or something to that effect. I felt sad with her for that fact, almost in hindsight. ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: kbob24@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 12:28 PM Subject: Re: Bob [...] 98129 200 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 20_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:01:30 -0700721_us-ascii I want to know what Ken considers to be "the proper refreshments."

Sharon









kbob24@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 09/28/2005 09:28 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 2



First a qualifying statement. Due to a variety of conference calls and distractions the last couple of evenings, I couldn't sit watch either program all the way through, so I recorded it all and only saw pieces here and there. Being a certified Dylan addict since around '64 living in Minneapolis, I have read everything [...] 98330 149 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 212_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:04:12 -0700358_iso-8859-1 The truth is, with artists, and especially musicians, you never know-Scorsese said it- that sometimes you get burned out and have nothing more to say- but you watch- I'll bet he'll be out there again especially in light of what is going on in the world...How can he not???--sue



--- Yuval Warshai wrote: [...] 98480 211 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 20_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:13:48 -0400375_us-ascii Yuval - when I watch, I'll catch the clip you mentioned. For his non-stop touring schedule, go to http://www.bobdylan.com/index.html and click on tours. I am sure you will agree that the pace he keeps at his age with his wealth (meaning he doesn't have to keep it up to support himself) is unparalleled. It looks like he was last in your neighborhood in April. [...] 98692 139 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 213_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:25:54 -0400436_iso-8859-1 I was also amazed by what he said in a sort of reply to Joan Baez, on why he did not invite her on the stage on a certain London performance: "You can't be wise and in love at the same time" or something like that. ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liberman" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 1:04 PM Subject: Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 2 [...] 98832 625 78_Rabbi Sid Schwarz's dvar torah at the Peace Shabbat Service in DC last weekend13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 14:12:02 -0400436_ISO-8859-1 _When Jews Must Choose-A D'var Torah on Ki Tavo_

9/24/05- 6^th and I Synagogue

Rabbi Sid Schwarz





This gathering represents Jews of conscience who refuse to sacrifice Israel or their Jewish self-respect on the altar of political correctness. It is not the first time Jews have had to make this choice. In the words of the Crosby, Stills and Nash song: "we have all been here before". [...] 99458 322 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 20_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 18:25:21 +0000356_- Except for a period about four or five years ago when he nearly died of some strange illness Dylan has been touring almost non-stop since the late eighties. I have only seen three of these shows and, I must admit, not liked any of them. I seem to be about the only one who feels this way about the concerts of the past 15 years but to each his own. [...] 99781 36 13_Re: Bob Dylan12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:57:20 -0400487_us-ascii A few weeks ago I had a flash of insight about Dylan and how he sees himself from a Biblical (and Jewish?) perspective.

In the song "Highway 61 Revisited," Bob sings:

Oh God said to Abraham, "Kill me a son" Abe says, "Man, you must be puttin' me on" God say, "No." Abe say, "What?" God say, "You can do what you want Abe, but The next time you see me comin' you better run" Well Abe says, "Where do you want this killin' done?" God says, "Out on Highway 61." [...] 99818 166 40_Re: Bob Dylan: No Direction Home, Part 219_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 15:19:42 -0500526_us-ascii i think that there are a lot of artists out there with plenty to say. maybe dylan and a few others were the spokespeople of a generation (intended or not). maybe there are so many more musicians nowadays that few seem to stand out. and it is very hard for some to get noticed at all if they don't have the right "look" or marketing expert. but there are some very powerful songs out there. one of the things i like about having teenagers is that they bring a lot of great music to our home. (of course they also [...] 99985 58 13_Re: Bob Dylan0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 20:33:10 +0000522_- There have been volumes of magazine articles and, I believe, two books, written about Dylan and the Jewish imagery he uses. Personally I think its a load of crap, as I do most attempts to interpret Dylan. Do you see the Jewish imagery in this Dyaln song from 1980?:

When they came for Him in the garden, did they know? When they came for Him in the garden, did they know? Did they know He was the Son of God, did they know that He was Lord? Did they hear when He told Peter, "Peter, put up your sword"? When [...] 100044 181 13_Re: Bob Dylan10_Ezra Salop16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 17:48:32 -0400570_us-ascii Another song about a Jewish boy. Judy



rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

>There have been volumes of magazine articles and, I believe, two books, written >about Dylan and the Jewish imagery he uses. Personally I think its a load of >crap, as I do most attempts to interpret Dylan. Do you see the Jewish imagery >in this Dyaln song from 1980?: > >When they came for Him in the garden, did they know? >When they came for Him in the garden, did they know? >Did they know He was the Son of God, did they know that He was Lord? >Did they hear [...] 100226 41 61_Breaking News - Habonim on stage at London's National Theatre0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 28 Sep 2005 23:39:26 -0400573_us-ascii We have previously discussed Mike Leigh's Habonim connection. His is rehearsing a new play at London's National Theatre with character's identified as Habonim graduates - really! Read below. - Ken

http://www.nextbook.org/cultural/feature.html?id=208



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 100268 63 16_get up, stand up0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 00:08:08 EDT539_US-ASCII I just started watching this one.......WOW.

Another DO NOT MISS program for us "boomers." I'm interested in how younger folk feel about these programs.

Debbie

"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 100332 620 27_Nextbook: All in the Family13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 07:45:12 -0400 100953 36 20_Re: get up, stand up16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 09:40:17 -0700380_ISO-8859-1 I was disappointed in this show. Where were the women? Odetta was great but how about the Women's movement- they covered civil rights, apartheid, Vietnam, early labor, punk, gay, everything but the whole era of struggle for women's rights, the women's music movement etc.- Linda



On Wednesday, September 28, 2005, at 09:08 PM, DebALev@AOL.COM wrote: [...] 100990 348 41_Fw: A Canadian's view of Katrina Politics11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:21:50 -0700660_iso-8859-1 'Netters

I am sending this along because I have never heard a nice word about us from the North. I am blown away that it would be a kind word about President Bush.

Steve





Subject: Fw: A Canadian's view of Katrina Politics







A Canadian writer's view of the politics of Katrina. Read bold sentences for faster reading. David Warren, once editor of the Idler Magazine, is widely travelled - especially in the Middle and Far East. He has been writing for the Citizen since 1996. His commentaries on international affairs appear Wednesdays & Saturdays; on Sundays he writes a general [...] 101339 1004 31_Re: Nextbook: All in the Family22_Ilan and Lorrie Israel24_ilanori@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 20:24:01 +0200499_iso-8859-1 Judy,

It won't help. My family will be visiting London this Succot and we looked for tickets - the play is completely sold out till January when it is scheduled to close.

Leshana Tova to all on the list,

Ilan Israel (ex British Habonim, Shaliach to Moshava 85-87, ex Kibbutz Gezer) married to Lorrie ( Oreck) ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: Nextbook: All in the Family [...] 102344 262 13_Re: Bob Dylan11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 10:52:48 -0700369_iso-8859-1 Sometimes you have to ferret the stuff out. The Jewish imagery is clearly hidden in "the . . Lord . . . .God [is]. . . in the garden".

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Ezra Salop To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Bob Dylan



Another song about a Jewish boy. Judy [...] 102607 235 31_Re: Nextbook: All in the Family12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 12:11:51 -0700590_iso-8859-1 Perhaps it will come to Broadway or off-broadway..s

--- Ilan and Lorrie Israel wrote:

> Judy, > > It won't help. My family will be visiting London > this Succot and we looked for tickets - the play is > completely sold out till January when it is > scheduled to close. > > Leshana Tova to all on the list, > > Ilan Israel (ex British Habonim, Shaliach to Moshava > 85-87, ex Kibbutz Gezer) married to Lorrie ( Oreck) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Judith Gelman > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2005 [...] 102843 110 20_Re: get up, stand up0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:41:42 EDT408_US-ASCII



In a message dated 9/29/05 9:50:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM writes:

I was disappointed in this show. Where were the women? Odetta was great but how about the Women's movement- they covered civil rights, apartheid, Vietnam, early labor, punk, gay, everything but the whole era of struggle for women's rights, the women's music movement etc.- Linda [...] 102954 128 20_Re: get up, stand up0_14_ohanka@AOL.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:53:13 -0400660_us-ascii I totally agree. And where were the folkies. Where were Ochs and Paxton. The show didn't focus on who I feel were the heroes of social change. Hank -----Original Message----- From: DebALev@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 29 Sep 2005 15:41:42 EDT Subject: Re: get up, stand up



In a message dated 9/29/05 9:50:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM writes: I was disappointed in this show. Where were the women? Odetta was great but how about the Women's movement- they covered civil rights, apartheid, Vietnam, early labor, punk, gay, everything but the whole era of struggle for women's rights, the women's [...] 103083 28 20_Re: get up, stand up12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 16:54:15 -0400474_us-ascii > Where were Ochs and Paxton.

I didn't watch it, in large part because of what I saw on the program's website ( http://tinyurl.com/8a6jb ). No mention at all of Phil Ochs, but David Bowie, Fleetwood Mac, Jimi Hendrix, and the Rolling Stones are "protest music"? I don't get it.

The review in yesterday's NY Daily News identified some other problems with the program and the author, David Hinckley, who is a Phil Ochs fan, also notes his absence. [...] 103112 113 20_Re: get up, stand up0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:21:47 EDT445_US-ASCII



In a message dated 9/29/05 2:07:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, dfleiss@pipeline.com writes:

No mention at all of Phil Ochs

Outrageous.

, but David Bowie, Fleetwood Mac, Jimi Hendrix, and the Rolling Stones are "protest music"? I don't get it.



I think it had to do with the intersection of politics and music, more than music as protest/social change. Too bad they lost that focus. [...] 103226 55 20_Re: get up, stand up16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM31_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 14:37:47 -0700625_ISO-8859-1 Don't forget Bonnie Raitt, Bernice Regan and Sweet Honey- still vital voices today- to name just a few-Linda

On Thursday, September 29, 2005, at 12:41 PM, DebALev@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 9/29/05 9:50:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM writes: > > I was disappointed in this show. Where were the women? Odetta was > great but how about the Women's movement- they covered civil rights, > apartheid, Vietnam, early labor, punk, gay, everything but the whole > era of struggle for women's rights, the women's music movement etc.- > Linda > > > I completely agree!! It [...] 103282 68 20_Re: get up, stand up0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Thu, 29 Sep 2005 17:47:16 EDT550_US-ASCII

Ani DiFranco

mm

Don't forget Bonnie Raitt, Bernice Regan and Sweet Honey- still vital voices today- to name just a few-Linda









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 103351 74 20_Re: get up, stand up0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:29:27 EDT494_US-ASCII In a message dated 09/29/2005 5:37:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, DebALev@AOL.COM writes:

BTW, Tom Paxton (who I would not characterize as a political singer/songwriter) was one of the speakers......in a dim auditorium.



Oh Tom Paxton had a couple of real good political songs including one called "What Did You Learn in School Today?" Even today he will get into a political song no and again. He certainly wrote one about the massacre of Muslims in Bosnia. [...] 103426 211 62_Book Talk NYC - David Dubinsky and the American Labor Movement16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:36:06 -0400534_us-ascii Tamiment Library Book Talk





The Master of Seventh Avenue: David Dubinsky and the American Labor Movement

by Robert Parmet [New York University Press, 2005]





WHEN

Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 6:30 pm - 8:30 pm





WHERE

Tamiment Library - Robert F. Wagner Labor Archives

Bobst Library, New York University

70 Washington Square South - 10th Floor





CO-SPONSORS

New York Labor History Association [...] 103638 538 21_The 'Answer' Question16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 09:46:45 -0400704_ISO-8859-1 Forward Logo Founded in 1897-Published in New York

News The 'Answer' Question Poses Difficult Choices for Liberals By Gal Beckerman September 30, 2005

For many Jewish activists the main problem with the coalition Act Now to Stop War and End Racism, or Answer, is the organization's fiercely anti-Israel stance. But for some observers and activists, there is a more fundamental question: whether the decision of liberal groups to work with Answer -- an organization that represents the most extreme-left elements remaining in America -- will stifle the anti-war cause's efforts to transform itself into a mass movement. [...] 104177 53 20_Re: get up, stand up0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:05:24 EDT510_US-ASCII Sam, thanks......I had forgotten that. Must be the brain short-circuiting again.

"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 104231 114 20_Re: get up, stand up0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 13:18:24 -0400298_us-ascii Just to add to Sam's comment on Tom Paxton, there is a great double CD of a Pete Seeger concert at Carnegie Hall that had come out as a single LP in our youth. On the expanded version he sings some "protest songs" by new young song writers, two of whom were Tom Paxton and Bob Dylan. [...] 104346 157 20_Re: get up, stand up0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:45:13 +0000338_- Just to add to Ken's post, and to prove that if you lived thru the sixties you don't remember them, the Tom Paxton songs and Dylan songs appear on the original version of We Shall Overcome, Pete Seeger Live at Carnegie Hall 1963 (an album I was raised on) though I also recommend the double CD version released a couple years ago. [...] 104504 113 20_Re: get up, stand up0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 14:53:25 EDT502_US-ASCII

Hi,

I have not seen this one yet. However I'd like to tell you about a true contemporary hero of social change by the name of Michael Franti with his group Spearhead. A few weeks ago he held his annual 'Power to the Peaceful' free concert in Golden Gate Park in SF with approx. 40,000 people in attendance. Angela Davis was the keynote speaker. This musician/human/social rights activist is the real deal. _www.spearheadvibrations.com_ (http://www.spearheadvibrations.com) [...] 104618 253 20_Re: get up, stand up0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:11:08 -0400435_us-ascii I feel like we should play "Folk Singer Jeopardy," you know "I'll take Pete Seeger for $500," but I am sure Richard would win.....but I did enjoy the sixties, especially 1972 (you know that the sixties lasted through Nixon's resignation, right?)

Ken



-----Original Message----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 30 Sep 2005 18:45:13 +0000 Subject: Re: get up, stand up [...] 104872 88 18_Re: Michael Franti12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:16:44 -0700592_iso-8859-1 Mark- I was curious- so I went to his website, then read his "Middle East Diary" (Michael Franti)....I suppose it is great that he draws 40,000 people ot a concert, but how respnsible is he in presenting only one side of the Israeli/Palesitnian conflict on his website? He obviously didn't visit the children and people who have been maimed by terrorist bombs, or the children in Israeli hospitals...or the memorials to the schoolchildren killed by mortars, or to Sderot....He may be a "real deal,"- but a very one-sided real deal...Chag Sameach- sue --- Mmxmm@AOL.COM wrote: [...] 104961 110 18_Re: Michael Franti0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 15:37:06 EDT534_US-ASCII

Sue,

I do know that he was in Israel last year and collaborated with various Israeli/Arab musicians and is a supporter of Peace Now. In fact I was at another concert a few weeks ago called Earth Dance (google for details) where he prformed and he introduced Galia Golan to the audience with a great deal of praise, she was standing on the side of stage dancing....well kinda :) I had a chance to say hello to her afterwards and tell her I had taken a class with her in 69' or there about at the Hebrew U. [...] 105072 82 18_Re: Michael Franti12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 12:42:11 -0700532_iso-8859-1 My question is, Mark- why isn't that reflected on his website?

--- Mmxmm@AOL.COM wrote:

> > Sue, > > I do know that he was in Israel last year and > collaborated with various > Israeli/Arab musicians and is a supporter of Peace > Now. In fact I was at another > concert a few weeks ago called Earth Dance (google > for details) where he > prformed and he introduced Galia Golan to the > audience with a great deal of > praise, she was standing on the side of stage > dancing....well kinda :) > I had a [...] 105155 159 20_Re: get up, stand up0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 20:14:53 +0000392_- I do like, "The Revolution Starts Now," but I would suggest that almost any Steve Earle album would be well worth adding to any collection, especially Copperhead Road. Earle is a real anomaly in one sense, he is the only creative artist I have heard of who actually got better and more creative after he stopped doing drugs. He also has a radio show every Sunday night on Air America. [...] 105315 32 20_Re: get up, stand up11_Noam Stopak21_nstopak@STARPOWER.NET31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 21:49:34 -0400402_iso-8859-1 Would that the be Steve Earle in you? :-)

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 4:14 PM Subject: Re: get up, stand up



... > > Oh, and BTW, any gathering that would have Angela Davis as a speaker is, > by definition, whacked out, far left crap and would bring out the Steve in > me. [...] 105348 486 40_UPZ (Habonim's campus group) in the news13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 30 Sep 2005 22:47:42 -0400551_us-ascii The Jewish Week - September 30, 2005

*Campus Doves Struggle To Soar

Student lefties - once closeted, now out - are caught between their politics and their love of Israel.

by Gabrielle Birkner* - /Staff Writer/

They sat around a campfire, donning work shirts adorned with the Labor Zionist youth movement logo and T-shirts urging coexistence between Israelis and their Arab neighbors. When they weren't singing proletariat hymns like "The Union Makes Us Strong," they spoke lovingly about the Jewish homeland. [...]