1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet August 2005 2 20 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 30 Jul 2005 to 31 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)12_Judith Tumin18_judith@HESCHEL.ORG30_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 00:28:04 -0500452_ISO-8859-1 Just to keep the record straight, Machaneh Bonim Aleph was the summer of 1963.

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 23 165 39_Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:55:09 -0700673_iso-8859-1 While we're at it, anyone know about the Glasner sisters form Baltimore?...sue

--- Pearl Skolnik wrote:

> Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?he's in israel. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Twersky > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:18 PM > Subject: Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up? > > > does anyone out there know what happened to the > real Danny Kanter? > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh on > behalf of Dan Kanter > Sent: Fri 7/29/2005 10:54 PM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 189 48 39_Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?11_Sam Bergman22_sambergman@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:01:11 -0400345_us-ascii I just noticed the "Gail Pinsky" discussion. The HDF People Finder has a Gail Pinskyi De Palma (former name Gail Pinsky) listed with address, phone number and email. Did any one ask her if she was on the 23rd workshop or MB in 73 (she is listed for both)? If anyone would care to, contact me privately for the contact info. Sam B. [...] 238 21 8_sad news16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 16:58:44 -0400275_ISO-8859-1 It is with sadness that I report the recent death of Ora Kutnick's second husband, Amnon Barzel. Ora was madricha of the 17th & 18th Workshops at Kibbutz Urim. Regrettably, I don't have an address for Ora at the moment but will pass it on ASAP when I get it. [...] 260 65 11_Ora Kutnick16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 17:12:46 -0400574_us-ascii Anyone wishing to send condolences to Ora Kutnick on the recent death of her husband, Amnon Barzel, can reach her as follows:

Ora Argaman Barzel Kibbutz Kfar Hachoresh 16960 ISRAEL

barzel_a@kfar-hachoresh.org.il

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 326 52 12_Re: sad news0_14_FIZNIK@AOL.COM28_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 17:12:57 EDT517_US-ASCII I have not spoken with Ora for many years..she was my Madricha for the 18th workshop...never met her second husband....please convey my condolences if you have the opportunity.

Dan Zifkin 18th workshop

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 379 32 27_Re: [BULK] Linda Hirschhorn16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM30_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:48:53 -0700415_ISO-8859-1 Hi- amazing how our names circle round the globe!!- Hope you are both well- Linda On Tuesday, July 26, 2005, at 07:33 PM, Sharon Weissbach wrote:

> Lee Shai and I attended Machaneh Bonim Aleph with Linda in Hunter, NY > (on the Tel Ari site). We recently had the good luck to reconnect and > fell right into a comfortable camaraderie based on a shared history > and wonderful memories. > > > [...] 412 51 27_Re: [BULK] Linda Hirschhorn16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM30_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 09:51:30 -0700338_US-ASCII Hi Hank and everybody- I was at Galil from 59-62 or maybe it was 58- 61. Absolutely the best memories from my childhood come from Galil. My nephews Daniel and Aaron also went there. Out here on the west coast I sent my son Lev to Camp Miriam in Vancouver- Linda On Tuesday, July 26, 2005, at 07:35 PM, Ohanka@AOL.COM wrote: [...] 464 38 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 30 Jul 2005 to 31 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Mon, 1 Aug 2005 23:34:42 -0400730_iso-8859-1 Thanks for the correction Judith, - Bev

----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith Tumin" To: Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 1:28 AM Subject: Re: HABONET Digest - 30 Jul 2005 to 31 Jul 2005 (#2005-207)



> Just to keep the record straight, Machaneh Bonim Aleph was the summer of > 1963. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 503 49 0_5_fromm21_fmenatya@ZAHAV.NET.IL30_Tue, 2 Aug 2005 06:31:03 +0200415_windows-1255 Habonet-unsubscribe-request@Shamash.org

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 553 399 33_Martin Peretz/Disciples of Christ16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 2 Aug 2005 07:59:20 -0400633_ISO-8859-1 The New Republic Online DAILY EXPRESS Indefensible by Martin Peretz Only at TNR Online Post date: 07.29.05

The Disciples of Christ have just jumped in to the recent St. Vitus dance mania of some of its brethren, the United Church of Christ, the Presbyterian Church, and the Anglicans (both here in the United States and in Great Britain), in pouncing on the State of Israel as the primary villain in world politics or at least so villainous as to warrant almost unprecedented and relentless condemnation by their official leaderships. In this, they are following the lead of the National [...] 953 242 12_Sand bullets8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 2 Aug 2005 16:27:55 +0200472_us-ascii It's about time we came up with something like this.







July 31, 2005 - 13:49

Israel replacing lethal rubber bullets with new sand bullets for riot control

GAVIN RABINOWITZ

JERUSALEM (AP) - The Israeli military said Sunday it is changing riot control methods, replacing its sometimes lethal rubber-coated steel pellets with compressed sand bullets. [...] 1196 764 194_BLAST FROM THE PAST The event described in MJ Rosenberg's Israel Policy Forum column (see below) had him on the dais defending Golda, me asking the question, and JJ Goldberg standing next to me.13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:00:58 -0400543_US-ASCII BLAST FROM THE PAST

The event described in MJ Rosenberg's Israel Policy Forum column (see below) had him on the dais defending Golda, me asking the question, and JJ Goldberg standing next to me.







Washington DC, July 29, 2005 Issue # 237

One State, Two State

At lunch at a friend's home last week, a very bright teenager asked his parents' guests "what do you think it would take for Israel to survive until the end of the century." A sharp kid, he wanted real answers not cant. [...] 1961 157 32_Re: TNR - Condi's Blurred Vision0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Tue, 2 Aug 2005 14:02:14 -0400520_us-ascii

The cynicism is directed at your girl Condi -----Original Message----- From: Jon Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:42:19 +0200 Subject: Re: TNR - Condi's Blurred Vision



Heh. And people here think I'm cynical. Jon -----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:46 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: TNR - Condi's Blurred Vision [...] 2119 65 18_The World Is Round8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 3 Aug 2005 15:32:28 +0200464_us-ascii

Good deconstruction of Thomas Friedman:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/18154

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 2185 427 62_Fw: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE RECITED WORLDWIDE WEDNESDAY AUG 3, 200511_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 3 Aug 2005 07:30:43 -0700462_windows-1255



Subject: Fw: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE RECITED WORLDWIDE WEDNESDAY AUG 3, 2005













Subject: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE RECITED WORLDWIDE WEDNESDAY AUG 3, 2005

International United one line Shema Prayer August 3 - Join In Please. Regardless of our level of religious observance or education, to serve G-d properly all Jews must be united. "All of Yisroel is responsible for each other" [...] 2613 469 66_Re: Fw: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE RECITED WORLDWIDE WEDNESDAY AUG 3, 20050_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 3 Aug 2005 15:03:23 +0000499_- As the great rock and roll philosopher Jim Morrison said, "You can not petition the lord with prayer."









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 3083 206 66_Re: Fw: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE RECITED WORLDWIDE WEDNESDAY AUG 3, 200512_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 3 Aug 2005 10:21:56 -0700729_iso-8859-1 But, as the Great Zionist Father, Moses, said, "Let my people go"--and somehow He listened ( for a while, anyway!)---sue

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> As the great rock and roll philosopher Jim Morrison > said, "You can not petition the lord with prayer." > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > From: Steve Klein > To: [...] 3290 216 70_PS--Re: Fw: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE RECITED WORLDWIDE WEDNESDAY AUG 3, 200512_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 3 Aug 2005 10:26:15 -0700738_iso-8859-1 (I know Moses was talking to Pharoah--but the scenario had to have some kind of "Holy" power)--sue

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> As the great rock and roll philosopher Jim Morrison > said, "You can not petition the lord with prayer." > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > From: Steve Klein > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: [...] 3507 215 79_Fro Richard--Re: Fw: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE RECITED WORLDWIDE WEDNESDAY AUG 3, 200512_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 3 Aug 2005 10:30:16 -0700720_iso-8859-1 And what are we here for if not to argue with God???..sue

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> As the great rock and roll philosopher Jim Morrison > said, "You can not petition the lord with prayer." > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > From: Steve Klein > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: Fw: SHEMA PRAYER TO BE [...] 3723 210 18_Israeli terrorist?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 4 Aug 2005 14:04:47 -0400624_us-ascii w w w . h a a r e t z . c o m ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Last update - 21:00 04/08/2005



Mob kills shooter, who went AWOL due to pullout

By Jack Khoury , Haaretz Correspondent, Haaretz Service and Agencies

A Jewish Israeli man in Israel Defense Forces uniform opened fire on bus passengers in a Druze neighborhood of the Israeli Arab town of Shfaram Thursday afternoon. Four people were killed and 12 wounded, two of them moderately. The gunman was killed by a mob that boarded the bus after the shooting. [...] 3934 24 49_This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists15_Schwartz Family23_arava_eilat@HOTMAIL.COM30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 08:40:03 +0300560_windows-1255 Please don't let people compare the despicable act of a single monster to that of an emissary of an organized army such as Hamas or the PLO. Even the fact that a certain atmosphere has been created doesn't allow for such a comparison.

Ethan

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 3959 51 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists3_avi16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:42:52 +0300421_windows-1255 I knew I shouldn't read emails first thing in the morning. I can't think clearly and the screen's all fuzzy. You're joking right?

Avi Rosenberg Gezer

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Schwartz Family Sent: å 05 àåâåñè 2005 8:40 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists [...] 4011 34 16_dc-balto kumzits19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 09:00:53 -0500316_us-ascii Great News! The DC-Balto Kumzitz is planned for Sat. Oct 15. It will be held at Adat Shalom Congregation (7727 Persimmon Tree Lane, Bethesda, MD). Here's the schedule for the evening:

5:00 "But Is It Jewish?" A new book by Amnon Hadary A discussion of Jewish poetry & literature with the author [...] 4046 93 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 08:09:19 -0700475_iso-8859-1 The truth is I feel it is worse--and part of that is the world reaction that will come....one bad egg killed Rabin; now we will all be labled teerrorists..."Or Lagoyim" just goes out the window.....because everyone is quick to pass some heavier judgement on the Jewish people, and every one of us, out of our minds or not, needs to hold onto what we stand for...The next couple of weeks is going to very difficult- too bad American Jewry is so silent.....sue [...] 4140 110 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 11:22:16 -0400567_iso-8859-1 The freaky thing is that the recent Pulsa Dinura prayer asking for God to kill Sharon took place "near the grave of (hanged pre-state activist) Shlomo Ben-Yosef - the most suitable site - as he is Sharon's antithesis," he said. "Ben-Yosef sacrificed his soul for the people of Israel, while Sharon is robbing the nation. We hope the lord will take him from us." SHLOMO BEN-YOSEF WAS ARRESTED BY THE BRITISH AFTER SHOOTING AT AN ARAB BUS AS RETALIATION TO THE MURDER OF SIX JEWS. HE WAS SENTENCED TO DEATH AND ON JUNE 29, 1938 WAS HANGED IN ACRE JAIL. [...] 4251 31 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 17:33:18 +0000333_- The problem is this martyr apparently was not a, "single monster." A few people have been arrested for knowing what he was planning to do. He was a member of Koch and went to live in a city that, according to the news, is well known as a hotbed of Koch activity. Has anyone considered targeted assassinations of Koch leaders? [...] 4283 63 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 13:45:36 -0400652_US-ASCII kach not koch koch was a mayor of new york



-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 1:33 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists

The problem is this martyr apparently was not a, "single monster." A few people have been arrested for knowing what he was planning to do. He was a member of Koch and went to live in a city that, according to the news, is well known as a hotbed of Koch activity. Has anyone considered targeted assassinations of [...] 4347 182 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 13:53:24 -0400608_ISO-8859-1 Ameinu will have a statement on its website within hours. THe Reform movement has already put its statement out. Judy



Sue Liberman wrote:

>The truth is I feel it is worse--and part of that is >the world reaction that will come....one bad egg >killed Rabin; now we will all be labled >teerrorists..."Or Lagoyim" just goes out the >window.....because everyone is quick to pass some >heavier judgement on the Jewish people, and every one >of us, out of our minds or not, needs to hold onto >what we stand for...The next couple of weeks is going >to very difficult- too bad [...] 4530 53 13_Terror attack13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:51:35 -0400500_us-ascii As promised--the Ameinu condemnation of this incident Judy

http://www.ameinu.net/news/pressreleases.php?pressreleaseid=16

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 4584 51 20_Re: dc-balto kumzits8_cpristoo17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 17:20:11 -0400634_ISO-8859-1 >===== Original Message From Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh < Unfortunately, I have a conflicting committment with our chavurah having a weekend retreat at the Pearlstone Conf Center. BTW, thanks for intro to Marilyn Wolff. Allan

HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG> ===== >Great News! The DC-Balto Kumzitz is planned for Sat. Oct 15. It will be held at Adat Shalom Congregation (7727 Persimmon Tree Lane, >Bethesda, MD). Here's the schedule for the evening: > >5:00 "But Is It Jewish?" A new book by Amnon Hadary >A discussion of Jewish poetry & literature with the author > >6:00 Pot luck Dinner >Bring a favorite dish [...] 4636 51 17_Re: Terror attack12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 14:43:06 -0700743_iso-8859-1 It is a beautiful and heartfelt statement; unfortunately, I doubt it will be read by the peopel who need to see it the most--Any chance of it's getting sent somehow to the village- perhaps posted as fliers as is often done?...Sue

--- Judith Gelman wrote:

> As promised--the Ameinu condemnation of this > incident > Judy > > http://www.ameinu.net/news/pressreleases.php?pressreleaseid=16 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > [...] 4688 142 66_Fwd: JEWISH LABOR COMMITTEE CONDEMNS BUS ATTACK IN SHFARAM, ISRAEL0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 19:24:20 EDT380_US-ASCII



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 4831 45 17_Re: Terror attack0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 19:29:01 EDT570_US-ASCII The JLC statement was sent to US unions, all Arab labor unions including the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions, and international union confederations.It was also sent to Israeli newspapers and to individual contacts we have among Palestinians. Avi

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4877 186 68_[Fwd: JEWISH LABOR COMMITTEE CONDEMNS BUS ATTACK IN SHFARAM, ISRAEL]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 5 Aug 2005 19:56:52 -0400510_us-ascii



-------- Original Message -------- Subject: JEWISH LABOR COMMITTEE CONDEMNS BUS ATTACK IN SHFARAM, ISRAEL Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2005 15:17:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Arieh Lebowitz To: Arieh Lebowitz





Please share as appropriate. Thanks. >> Arieh L"tz ~~~~~~~~~~

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE August 5, 2005 contact: Arieh Lebowitz 212-477-0707



*JEWISH LABOR COMMITTEE CONDEMNS BUS ATTACK IN SHFARAM, ISRAEL* [...] 5064 53 18_Jewish art and lit8_stangold21_stangold@INTER.NET.IL30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 09:39:54 +0200426_iso-8859-1 Is something JEWISH ART OR LIT. bcause it was created by a person who is Jewish or because it's theme is Jewish ???

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 5118 94 22_Re: Jewish art and lit0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 09:34:06 +0000430_- I give up? What's the punch line?









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 5213 202 198_Re: BLAST FROM THE PAST The event described in MJ Rosenberg's Israel Policy Forum column (see below) had him on the dais defending Golda, me asking the question, and JJ Goldberg standing next to me.0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 08:17:13 -0400447_us-ascii David - once a trouble maker, always a troublemaker!

Shabbat sahalom,

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: David Twersky To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 10:00:58 -0400 Subject: BLAST FROM THE PAST The event described in MJ Rosenberg's Israel Policy Forum column (see below) had him on the dais defending Golda, me asking the question, and JJ Goldberg standing next to me. [...] 5416 109 22_Re: Jewish art and lit11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 10:36:49 -0400508_us-ascii A good question! My son took a course in Jewish Art at his day school and they restricted it to artists with a Jewish mother who identified as Jewish but not necessarily on Jewish themes. The idea was to look at how Jewish artists' work reflected their experiences of life. Unfortunately with this definition, they missed some of the most interesting artists--those with only Jewish fathers and who thus experienced being marginalized in both the Jewish community and the non-Jewish community. [...] 5526 187 32_By The Rivers of the Philistines6_Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 19:24:49 +0200584_us-ascii Haverim/ot A few days ago Steve forwarded a call from Aish urging people to devote 10 seconds for a world recitation of the Sh'ma prayer on Tisha be-Av Seven years ago I sent a message to Habonet which I called Tisha be-Av and Yom Ha-shoa. I have no evidence but I think that Aish had knee jerk response to the Israel government's impending withdrawal from the Gaza Strip. After all, the Orthodox opponents of hitnatkut started their protest by wearing yellow Stars of David AKA the Nazi designation of Jews in the concentration camps. This is part of the appropriation [...] 5714 209 36_Re: By The Rivers of the Philistines8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 19:39:33 +0200642_us-ascii Amnon, good luck trying to get the school teachers here to agree to canceling a holiday.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Hadary Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 7:25 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: By The Rivers of the Philistines



Haverim/ot A few days ago Steve forwarded a call from Aish urging people to devote 10 seconds for a world recitation of the Sh'ma prayer on Tisha be-Av Seven years ago I sent a message to Habonet which I called Tisha be-Av and Yom Ha-shoa. I have no evidence but I think that Aish [...] 5924 247 66_Re: JEWISH LABOR COMMITTEE CONDEMNS BUS ATTACK IN SHFARAM, ISRAEL]11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 09:52:59 -0700412_iso-8859-1 Judy

To my ear, the statements made by and in the name of splinter groups sounds weaker than the [true] statement that "Jews everywhere condemn this insane and heinous act".

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 4:56 PM Subject: [Fwd: JEWISH LABOR COMMITTEE CONDEMNS BUS ATTACK IN SHFARAM, ISRAEL] [...] 6172 75 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 19:22:56 +0200575_iso-8859-1 the person who perpetrated these murders recently became religious, and was from a secular family. He hid out in Tapuach, which has a number of followers of Kach. According to his family they realized he was unstable and tried to get the army to take back their son's weapon but they were rebuffed. Even Natan Zada, their son, asked the army to take back his weapon, but again was rebuffed. It is obvious that there was a fashla here, and this very unstable boy, Natan Zada, went ahead and murdered 4 Arabs. Everyone realizes the catastrophe this is and what [...] 6248 215 53_Re: This Jewish terrorist is not like Arab terrorists0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM28_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 13:57:19 EDT631_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/6/2005 1:23:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Several boys in Tapuach were arrested not because they KNEW what he was going to do, but because they are suspected of knowing what he was going to do. I think there is a difference there.





The difference is a trial and a judgement. In a modern democracy it is the usual custom to arrest people, collect evidence and put them on trial before declaring them guilty. (This is a very different thing than "declaring someone guilty and putting a death curse on them). But to keep facts [...] 6464 205 36_Re: By The Rivers of the Philistines19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 12:57:53 -0500378_us-ascii amnon, this has nothing to do with your post, but....saw your brother's obit in the wash post today. my condolences. hope to meet you when (if?) you get to maryland for the kumzitz and your book party.

lisa

>From: Hadary >Date: Sat Aug 06 12:24:49 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: By The Rivers of the Philistines [...] 6670 237 19_havhara: natan-zada13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 20:58:05 +0200365_iso-8859-1 The hebrew papers wrote that they were SUSPECTED of knowing what natan-zada was planning. Until it is proven otherwise, we should just wait and see if the boys are indeed guilty. It is known that the boys hid him out in their rooms, and the people of Kfar Tapuach didn't even know natan-zadah was there.. The Jerusalem Post is not Torah from Sinai. [...] 6908 145 41_"Ki Rachok Mimeni Menachem Meshiv Nafshi"12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 22:23:15 +0200614_iso-8859-1 And on another note - the New Israel Fund is holding an event on 9 b'Av in Gan HaPa'amon: "Al Eleh Ani Bochiya" - personalities in Israeli society talk about Israeli society - over what they shed tears - with the hope of sending new sparks into the public discourse. Beginning time: 2 hrs before the end of the fast. Attending: Ami Ayalon, Rabbanim Lau (Meir and Benny), Meirav Michaeli, Jacky Levi, (working on) Aviv Gefen, HaRav Yuval Sherlo, Dudi Zilbershlag, Sivan Rahav, Haim Zissovitch, Yisrael Har'el, Sha'anan Street, Prof. Uriel Simon, and more. Jerusalemites: see you there. Jessie ----- [...] 7054 455 40_[Fwd: [ShomerNet] Report from Jerusalem]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sat, 6 Aug 2005 17:00:25 -0400564_windows-1255 I thought many of you would be interested in reading this posting to ShomerNet so, with the author's permission, I am forwarding it.

Shalom- Judy Gelman

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ShomerNet] Report from Jerusalem Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 15:35:03 +0200 From: Hillel Shenker Reply-To: ShomerNet@yahoogroups.com To: , , , "PeaceNGOs" , "Common Ground News Service" [...] 7510 94 25_the report from jerusalem13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sun, 7 Aug 2005 05:57:32 +0200443_windows-1255 when i studied history i recall learning that if you discover one sentence known not to be true then the whole treatise/report, etc. is suspect.

The people murdered by natan-zadah were two christians and two muslims, and NOT druzim as written in the report.

If there is one fact that has come out of the innumerable demonstrations it is that they have been wholly non-violent. Every media report sustains this. [...] 7605 163 19_Who you gonna call?8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:10:21 +0200518_Windows-1252 I heard a rumor about these guys. Something to keep in mind next time you're traveling in the Third World. From today's Telegraph:



For hire: elite Israeli squad who can break you out of jail By Harry de Quetteville in Jerusalem (Filed: 07/08/2005)

You won't find them listed in any telephone book. But if you're locked up in a Third World jail, seemingly beyond help, the secret team of Israeli soldiers-of-fortune can spring you from your cramped and fetid cell - for a price. [...] 7769 186 23_Re: Who you gonna call?14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Sun, 7 Aug 2005 08:29:23 +0200414_Windows-1252 Sounds like the A-Team. Do they have a guy with lots of gold chains, too?

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Baum" To: Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 8:10 AM Subject: Who you gonna call?





I heard a rumor about these guys. Something to keep in mind next time you're traveling in the Third World. From today's Telegraph: [...] 7956 231 198_Re: BLAST FROM THE PAST The event described in MJ Rosenberg's Israel Policy Forum column (see below) had him on the dais defending Golda, me asking the question, and JJ Goldberg standing next to me.12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sun, 7 Aug 2005 01:17:05 -0700598_iso-8859-1 If only .... For one thing, the meeting with Golda was far from a "lovefest." I and several others also pointedly challenged her denial of Palestinian existence, let alone rights. I think she was a little shaken by the experience, though not enough to shift course by changing the policy that led directly to the 1973 war and eventually, today's disasters. While we've come a long way in getting past utter denial on the matter of Palestinian existence, the decades since have seen facts created that make an end of the occupation and a viable Palestinian state much more difficult [...] 8188 276 198_Re: BLAST FROM THE PAST The event described in MJ Rosenberg's Israel Policy Forum column (see below) had him on the dais defending Golda, me asking the question, and JJ Goldberg standing next to me.0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 7 Aug 2005 09:28:40 +0000535_- If you could please explain your statement I would be much obliged.

"And we have a Labor Party whose leader was unwilling to grasp the chance for peace when he had the opportunity in 2000-01..."









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8465 163 26_disengagement aftereffects16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:44:27 -0400644_us-ascii In Habonet 2005-213, Pearl writes about disengagement opponents who believe, or say they believe, that there will be some sort of miraculous reversal of policy, that

> Their belief is very strong, and I think this will lead to tremendous > trauma when it does indeed occur.

Cognitive dissonance is a funny thing and tends to just the opposite: it reinforces the faith. That, certainly, was the result that Festinger reported in his classic work When Prophecy Failed. More immediately, we see that most of the Lubavitch movement not only believes that Schneerson was the meshiach--they've rewritten their siddurim to [...] 8629 294 30_Re: disengagement aftereffects8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sun, 7 Aug 2005 17:51:25 +0200457_us-ascii They just announced on the news that Netanyahu resigned. I get the feeling that "Team Orange" will see this as the beginning of the "miracle" they've been praying for. The game's not over just yet!

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 4:44 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: disengagement aftereffects [...] 8924 73 24_transparency of the poor11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL30_Mon, 8 Aug 2005 17:54:32 +0200477_windows-1255 When people talk about transparency of government and economics, the only transparency I see is the transparency of the poor in the eyes of Netanyahu.



Arie

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 8998 240 36_Re: By The Rivers of the Philistines12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 8 Aug 2005 09:34:48 -0700426_iso-8859-1 I have a problem with the concept that "Galut is kaput"-- It isn't...and it would be foolish even as a philosphical exercise to believe that this is true- Israel NEEDS the galut- even if only financially- Where would it be without the bank accounts set up by American businessmen before milchemet hashichrur..or now without the millions (or billions) being pumped into the economy via the Jewish Agency?...sue [...] 9239 87 41_Jewish Terrorists part I Baruch Goldstein5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 8 Aug 2005 21:17:12 +0200583_us-ascii Haverim/ot Jewish Terrorists are different than the Palestinians Terrorists. The latter have neither an air force nor armor. Their only means of working out their xenophobic aggressions is to send suicide bombers to blow up an enemy. I have no pity on their meager armaments - only on the plight of their people. Jewish terrorists are worse not by virtue of their superior arms but because they are mine. I have to come to terms with the notion that there is some dreadful disease in the blood stream of the villains who are spawned in Orthodoxy. The three most recent [...] 9327 251 30_Re: disengagement aftereffects13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Mon, 8 Aug 2005 21:04:11 -0400427_iso-8859-1 Dear Elihu,

Very interesting insights. Thank you for them. Unfortunately, I believe you are right in most of your dire predictions. Do you have any practical suggestions on how we can organize further for the hard times ahead? Thanks again, ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: Elihu D. Davison To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 10:44 AM Subject: disengagement aftereffects [...] 9579 25 36_Re: By The Rivers of the Philistines5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 06:26:32 +0200529_us-ascii Haverot\im >Sorry that due to my computer problems I sent "By The Rivers of the >Philistines" twice. God knows that even the first attempt was long enough >(in a private communication he told me so.)



Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9605 112 43_Fw: Portions of an Al-Qaeda training manual11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 03:20:42 -0700450_iso-8859-1

There are some of you that will find this more than fascinating.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Portions of an Al-Qaeda training manual





Portions of an Al-Qaeda training manual have been posted on the Web by the Department of Justice. It was found by British police in Manchester during the search of an Al-Qaeda terrorist's home. The manual was subsequently introduced at a trial in New York. [...] 9718 36 31_Rivers of the Philistines redux16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 10:37:40 -0400633_ISO-8859-1 In Habonet 2005-215, Sue Liberman writes that

>Israel NEEDS the galut- even if only financially- > Financially, at least, NOT. Israel is now economically a first world country with the usual first-world underclass population sector of disposable poor. Diaspora Jewish charity is a drop in the proverbial bucket, though Federation execs around the country have heart attacks every time these kinds of facts come out. I think it was in 1992 when Itzhak Rabin, z"l, became premier for the last time, that his newly appointed Justice Minister Yossi Beilin visited in the US. He told the annual General Assembly of [...] 9755 369 65_[Fwd: #591: Pipes in NY Sun on "Today Gaza, Tomorrow Jerusalem'"]16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:01:51 -0400639_us-ascii Amnon, I share your horror and disdain for Eden Natan Zada and what he may have represented. The stripe of Orthodoxy that could have spawned his like--and Baruch Goldstein & Yigal Amir and their fellow-travellers--is, how shall I put this?, problematic? For myself, I believe that the Gaza disengagement is the worst possible action that can be taken except for any other alternatives. As David Grossman observed in his mid-1980's book The Yellow Wind, many of the settlers genuinely believe themselves to be the successors of the pre-State Zionist hityashvuyot. We may not agree, but that's their self-definition. I believe [...] 10125 52 35_Re: Rivers of the Philistines redux11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:34:23 -0400603_ISO-8859-1 I thought foreign donations are still about 5% of GNP. Judy

Elihu D. Davison wrote:

> In Habonet 2005-215, Sue Liberman writes that > >> Israel NEEDS the galut- even if only financially- >> > Financially, at least, NOT. Israel is now economically a first world > country with the usual first-world underclass population sector of > disposable poor. Diaspora Jewish charity is a drop in the proverbial > bucket, though Federation execs around the country have heart attacks > every time these kinds of facts come out. > I think it was in 1992 when Itzhak Rabin, z"l, became [...] 10178 85 35_Re: Rivers of the Philistines redux12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 09:54:13 -0700557_iso-8859-1 Elihu- The Jewish Agency is financed with American money--I don't think your satement is realistic....I recently saw a budget for one program on the LA Federation (ONE program!!!) which was 12 Million dollars.....perhaps in t he scehem of things this is a drop int he bucket- but add up all of the federation and synagogue loot and you have some substantial bucks. If Israel doesn't need it- then I suggest the government tells those Galut insittutions and the funding can be used for healthcare for American citizens who can't get it...sue [...] 10264 126 49_Re: Rivers of the Philistines redux-calrification12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 10:22:48 -0700575_iso-8859-1 I meant "galut money"- not necessarily American- also- the Galut has supplied Israel with more than funding--I guess I just reacted to the saying that "Galut is kaput"- because I realize the fact that this is coming from the philosophical POV that now that there is an Israel, the Galut ceases to be of importance; but I feel this is a simplistic judgement, especially in the global economy of today...perhaps the thinking that Galut is a "choice" is another topic- but I doubt that "Galut" will go away, nor should it be dismissed as a wasteful concept..sue [...] 10391 133 45_Re: Jewish Terrorists part I Baruch Goldstein0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 13:32:43 -0400556_us-ascii I am glad you posted this Amnon and not I. Some people like Pearl have done endless spinning about Baruch Goldstein. He was a member of JDL and later of Kach. He was part of a large minority of Kiryat Arbah who affiliates themselves with Kach. I am not sure what percentage of the settlers are associated with Kach but I think it is not insignificant. My guess is about 10%. More imporatantly they are tolerated by the majority of settlers who are non Kach. While in Israel as a whole, Kach is illegal, among the settlers they are considered [...] 10525 59 49_Re: Rivers of the Philistines redux-calrification0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:08:12 -0700559_us-ascii Sue wrote: "Galut is kaput"- because I realize the fact that this is coming from the philosophical POV that now that there is an Israel, the Galut ceases to be of importance;

I understood Amnon's comment to mean that the galut is no longer the sole vehicle for Jewish survival, as it was during all those centuries when we were accumulating more events to commemorate on Tisha B'Av. It's not that the galut has ceased to be important; but the galut is no longer the only game in town. Many of us may still be in exile as individuals, but [...] 10585 311 24_Another Jewish Terrorist5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 20:43:06 +0200565_us-ascii Haverim/ot As promised, Another Jewish Terrorist. A popular dossier on a charismatic religious political assassin. Yigal Amir, a lady's man and a mama's boy. We have them in all sizes ages and degrees of besotted minds. Take your pick.



Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 10897 37 23_"A Galut State of Mind"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 12:51:25 -0700437_iso-8859-1 --- Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote: Many of us may still be in exile > as individuals, but > we, as a Jewish people, are no longer in exile. > I have to take issue with this- As long as there is suffering of any kind- we are in "a galut state of mind"- "The Jewish People" is such a broad term--but if we include all of us, then there are plenty of people who are living in Israel who are, in my mind, in Galut.....sue [...] 10935 57 27_Re: "A Galut State of Mind"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 22:55:30 +0200617_us-ascii Hi Sue. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "suffering of any kind?" Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sue Liberman Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 9:51 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: "A Galut State of Mind"



--- Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote: Many of us may still be in exile > as individuals, but > we, as a Jewish people, are no longer in exile. > I have to take issue with this- As long as there is suffering of any kind- we are in "a galut state of mind"- "The Jewish People" is such [...] 10993 265 45_Re: Jewish Terrorists part I Baruch Goldstein13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 23:41:49 +0200541_iso-8859-1 Sam, what kind of sense can you have not being here. Kach is limited to a very few hotheads, that nobody wants around them because when they join the fray they give a stigma to whoever is in the area. They are dangerous because they do not think, they are young and don't think of the consequences of their actions. As for Dr.Goldstein, what he did was terrible, caused great anguish and shock to all thinking people. I did not know of him as anything other than a doctor and that is how I judged him until the horrible deed [...] 11259 96 27_Re: "A Galut State of Mind"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 14:43:14 -0700463_iso-8859-1 Well, (is this a test?)...how about the people living below the poverty line; Ofakim and other poor communities; Palestinian children and women; people who have been attacked by bombers; the ill; anyone who has no way to realize "hagshama atzmit;" emotionally disturbed; artsits; politicians; kibbutznikim who have lost their kibbutz; anyone who has lost a parent,child, relative or friend; ...etc etc and so forth....Any reason why you ask?..... [...] 11356 156 27_Re: "A Galut State of Mind"0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:04:01 -0700470_us-ascii Sue- What makes you think suffering is a "galut" phenomenon? Or are you talking about being in exile from heaven, rather than just from Israel?

Sharon









Sue Liberman Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/09/2005 02:43 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: "A Galut State of Mind" [...] 11513 124 27_Re: "A Galut State of Mind"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 15:45:03 -0700576_iso-8859-1 The concept of "galut"- is bound in the concept of expulsion or banishment from one's homeland. It thus implies living in a situation in which one has lost governmental control, and the need to become submissive to the host. This then implies the impossibility of attaining "hagshama atzmit"- since one can not achieve this in a foreign land. I think this is best left to Amnon to discuss- since he can bring into this Biblical connotaions and references that my small brain can not--It has nothing to do with heaven, and more to do with socialist politics... [...] 11638 274 27_Re: "A Galut State of Mind"11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 9 Aug 2005 18:52:11 -0400477_us-ascii This has become a very popular use of the concept of "galut" in some Jewish circles,just as "mitzriyim" is used to mean any place or cause of distress. Personally, these redefinitions leave me cold. maybe because I need to stop and swtch context every time I hear them used. However, these redefinitions seem to speak to a lot of people, esp in the Reconstructionist and Renewal movements. I hear the concepts used in these metaphorical senses all the time. Judy [...] 11913 114 27_Re: "A Galut State of Mind"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:33:46 +0200376_us-ascii Sorry Sue, I'm really not trying to be aggressive or anything. I just wanted a better sense of what you were writing.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sue Liberman Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 11:43 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: "A Galut State of Mind" [...] 12028 115 27_Hehalutz Research completed13_Yehuda Riemer19_yriemer@URIM.ORG.IL31_Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:11:06 +0200670_windows-1255 Announcing Completion of "Hehalutz" Research Project.

I am pleased to announce that I have completed my study of the Hechalutz Organization of America and Canada (1933-1953). The research was commissioned by the Ben Gurion Research Center at Sdeh Boker and will hopefully be published by that institution.



The work deals with the circumstances under which Hehalutz in America was founded (for the third time), the twenty years of its history and its subsequent decline and dissolution. It traces the development of the hachshara farms and the work of the shlihim, among them Hillel Giladi, Lassya Galili, Enzo Sereni, Benny Ilan, [...] 12144 18 5_exile16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 10 Aug 2005 09:29:07 -0400439_ISO-8859-1 Galut is exile. Altogether different from the notion of diaspora.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 12163 113 20_Yiddishists' Reunion16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 10 Aug 2005 13:03:33 -0400661_us-ascii Workmen's Circle Yiddish Summer Camp + Cooperative Housing Reunions + Yiddish Music





Friday Aug 19 2005 Sunday Aug 21 2005 - 12 pm





These historic, once in a lifetime reunions will allow old friends and neighbors from New York City's Amalgamated Housing and former camp bunkmates from Yiddish summer camps a chance to schmooze and reconnect while recalling the heydays of both Yiddish Summer Camps and the cooperative housing movements. The weekend will provide an interesting slice of life of old New York, and could be part of a larger piece about the disappearance of cooperative housing in the city [...] 12277 109 45_Re: Jewish Terrorists part I Baruch Goldstein0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:33:07 -0400654_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 9 Aug 2005 23:41:49 +0200 Subject: Re: Jewish Terrorists part I Baruch Goldstein



Sam, what kind of sense can you have not being here. Kach is limited to a very few hotheads, that nobody wants around them because when they join the fray they give a stigma to whoever is in the area. They are dangerous because they do not think, they are young and don't think of the consequences of their actions. As for Dr.Goldstein, what he did was terrible, caused great anguish and shock to all thinking people. [...] 12387 45 9_Re: exile12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 10 Aug 2005 16:12:33 -0700563_iso-8859-1 Thanks Elihu- clear and succinct...sue --- "Elihu D. Davison" wrote:

> Galut is exile. Altogether different from the > notion of diaspora. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...] 12433 410 72_Re: Fw: Tovah=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=A0_Feldshuh's=A0=A0_"GOLDA'_s=A0?= BALCONY"0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 05:09:49 EDT398_UTF-8 I"m proud to add that I'm the author of the study guide for The Journey to Golda's Balcony. If you attend the show, you'll hear Tovah announce my name from the stage. What she really should say is "written by Aliya Cheskis-Cotel, proud Habonudnick, Tavor, MB Daled, Gilboa Tzevet, and MB Hey and Zayin Tzevet!!! In a message dated 7/30/05 10:37:06 AM, kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com writes: [...] 12844 168 10_gush katif11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 09:38:36 -0400588_ISO-8859-1 I thought some of you might be interested in my report on my trip to Gush Katif about a month ago. One footnote--The residents of Ganei Tal disarmed themselves on Monday when they handed their weapons to the IDF. Judy http://www.ameinu.net/perspectives/israel2.php?articleid=44

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 13013 103 20_Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:17:05 +0000308_- Jon, a while ago you stated: "Zionists are ethnocentric. We believe in a Jewish state as a solution to physical danger and assimilation that our people face in the Diaspora. Not a multi-ethnic state, a Jewish one. It's ok with me if you're uncomfortable with this, but it's what Zionists believe in." [...] 13117 142 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:58:14 +0200429_us-ascii No, you may not.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the link between Zionism and ethnicity? It seems to me that you're the one who thinks that Zionism is racism.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:17 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Jon and Ethnocentism [...] 13260 193 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 11:01:38 -0700543_iso-8859-1 I will have some "chutzpah" and answer for Jon- Yes- Zionism is racism- but it's too bad that the word has such horrible connotations....I guess you called call Black Pride racism; and you would have to go so far as to stereotype it since any one who takes pride in his or her own nationalism is practicing racism..... (Indians, (Native Americans) French, etc...What is nasty about your question is the fact that YOU KNOW you are stirring up trouble by asking it! --I mean- really- why ask THAT??? If not to cause trouble? sue [...] 13454 511 10_Incitement0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:11:27 EDT406_US-ASCII Due to technical difficulties the following message is really from Amnon Hadary even though it is coming from my email address. I am sure that the value of the words won't lessen even as they are forced to fly though a cyber-maze.

Haverot/im

Today, our Attorney General announced there was no evidence that Yigal Amir assassinated Yitzhak Rabin because of religious incitement. [...] 13966 341 23_Please Boycott Wal-Mart0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:18:30 EDT533_UTF-8



Unions Boycott Wal-Mart

By BLOOMBERG NEWS

Published: August 11, 2005

The nation's two largest teachers' unions joined a boycott against Wal-Mart Stores yesterday, using the busy back-to-school shopping season to protest the retailer's labor practices.

The National Education Association, with 2.7 million members, and the American Federation of Teachers, with 1.3 million, teamed up with the United Food and Commercial Workers to urge shoppers to buy school supplies elsewhere. [...] 14308 501 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:25:11 EDT532_US-ASCII When did Hillel become a racist?? Suddenly we are incapable of looking at Zionism through Hillel's lens If I am not for myself, who will be for me - certainly sounds like self determination to me. If I am only for myself, what am I - seems to allow us to eliminate the specter of racism as a condition of Zionism. (True one could wrap yourself in orange instead of a white hood and pretend that you are doing it under the flag of Zionism but that would be any more legitimate than pretending that the KKK are the true [...] 14810 174 13_answer to sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:29:14 +0200538_iso-8859-1 contrary to what you wrote: when kach is around, sam, you can't miss them. everyone does what they can to shut them up and to make sure they do not take up residence in areas where they can cause trouble. If they do rent an apt here and there, the village does its darndest to get them out. Kachniks are trouble for anyone influenced them, usually young teenagers. as for dr.g, I was unaware of his politics, because I only knew him as my sister's and my children's doctor, and from the time he took care of my niece when [...] 14985 149 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:35:53 +0000598_- You are the one who tells me that Zionism, by definition, is ethnocentric and you ask me what is the connection between Zionism and ethnicity??????? Are you making one of your many little jokes that I don't get?



> No, you may not. > > Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the link between Zionism and > ethnicity? It seems to me that you're the one who thinks that Zionism is > racism. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On > Behalf Of rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:17 [...] 15135 206 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:43:12 +0000303_- Sue,

Not that it should make one iota of difference why I asked anything nor would there be anything wrong if I had asked it just to stir up trouble. Jon does that all the time and, to be be honest, if a question seems to cause trouble the trouble was there before the question was asked. [...] 15342 546 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:50:20 +0000321_- The problem I have with this argument is that not one other democracy (at least none that I know of) identifies its citizens by their religion and provides two different school systems for its citizens by their religion and has differing rights for its citizens, and non-citizens, again based upon their religion. [...] 15889 70 17_Re: answer to sam0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:06:55 -0400395_us-ascii



contrary to what you wrote: when kach is around, sam, you can't miss them. everyone does what they can to shut them up and to make sure they do not take up residence in areas where they can cause trouble. If they do rent an apt here and there, the village does its darndest to get them out. Kachniks are trouble for anyone influenced them, usually young teenagers. [...] 15960 510 14_Re: Incitement0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 12:15:38 -0700422_us-ascii Thanks for forwarding this, Haim, I was wondering why we hadn't heard much from Amnon lately.

As to the poem, I am firmly on the side of the 1953 Amir. I say "blood" even if the blood was previously contained within the body of a Palestinian, an Iraqi, a card-carrying member of Al-Qaida, or George W. Bush. This should come as no surprise to anyone who has followed this list for any length of time. [...] 16471 256 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:15:52 EDT604_US-ASCII Richard- Don't confuse Zionism with the machinations of government. Zionism is a national - not a religious movement. There are religious and secular Zionists there are some who would claim that non-Jews can be Zionists as well (a very different discussion) You and many others as well are confused because we use the same name for both our National Identity ...that which defines us as a people separate and unique from other peoples (please don't read either better or chosen) - a common history a common language, common culture and a common homeland -JEW but the markers for our Jewish [...] 16728 515 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:18:33 -0400601_us-ascii Jews aren't a race. It is a nationality and religion with members in more than one race. Judy

Sue Liberman wrote:

>I will have some "chutzpah" and answer for Jon- Yes- >Zionism is racism- but it's too bad that the word has >such horrible connotations....I guess you called call >Black Pride racism; and you would have to go so far as >to stereotype it since any one who takes pride in his >or her own nationalism is practicing racism..... >(Indians, (Native Americans) French, etc...What is >nasty about your question is the fact that YOU KNOW >you are stirring up trouble [...] 17244 633 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:24:26 -0400705_us-ascii Several democracies have schools where the state religion is taught and if you don't like it, you have to send your kids to private schools. Judy

rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

>The problem I have with this argument is that not one other democracy (at least none that I know of) identifies its citizens by their religion and provides two different school systems for its citizens by their religion and has differing rights for its citizens, and non-citizens, again based upon their religion. > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >a service [...] 17878 559 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:25:23 +0000373_- Well Judy, if you want to really be acurate, race does not exist. Race is an atificial means to diferrentiate between people. Anthropology textbooks from 75 to a hundred years ago divided the human race into 75 to 100 races and now they will claim there are only 3 or 4. The term racism, as I use it, means to discriminate against people based upon their ethnicity. [...] 18438 675 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:28:22 +0000598_- Perhaps that is true, can you name them? But it still wouldn't be the same as the way Israel provides two different school systems (shades of the Jim Crow south) nor in all the other ways citizenship rights are differentiated by the citizens religion or ethnicity.









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 19114 200 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:34:53 +0200564_US-ASCII Richard, what I asked, if you'd have read my message carefully, is what you think is the connection between Zionism and ethnicity. I'm pretty sure I've got it down.

Let's try to discuss this without rancor. Like I said once before, in it's most basic definition, Zionism is the belief in a Jewish state. Now, I don't believe that this idea is racist. I believe that, as a people and a nation, we have a right to this state. The "Jew" in my teudat zehut refers to my nationality, not my religion although, as Amnon points out, the line between [...] 19315 153 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism15_brian s. cooper25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 15:56:56 -0400682_ISO-8859-1 Quebec has (or at least had, when I was growing up there) a Protestant School Board and a Catholic School Board. The Jewish schools affiliated with the Protestant School Board (the Catholics wouldn't have them).

--brian



rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: > Perhaps that is true, can you name them? But it still wouldn't be the same as the way Israel provides two different school systems (shades of the Jim Crow south) nor in all the other ways citizenship rights are differentiated by the citizens religion or ethnicity. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by [...] 19469 400 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:04:08 -0400650_us-ascii So when the English hate the Irish or the Germans hate the Swiss, that's racism? Judy

rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

>Well Judy, if you want to really be acurate, race does not exist. Race is an atificial means to diferrentiate between people. Anthropology textbooks from 75 to a hundred years ago divided the human race into 75 to 100 races and now they will claim there are only 3 or 4. The term racism, as I use it, means to discriminate against people based upon their ethnicity. > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >Shamash: The [...] 19870 819 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:31:45 -0400319_us-ascii I leave it to Jessie or Jon or someone to explain it but there are a lot more than two school systems. As I understand it, there are at least two systems just for Arabs, with the Christian system viewed as far superior to the Moslem one to the point that Moslems send their children to Christian schools. [...] 20690 971 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:49:01 +0200657_US-ASCII Judy, what's wrong with multiple school systems? Surely one size doesn't fit all?

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judy Gelman Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:32 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Jon and Ethnocentism



I leave it to Jessie or Jon or someone to explain it but there are a lot more than two school systems. As I understand it, there are at least two systems just for Arabs, with the Christian system viewed as far superior to the Moslem one to the point that Moslems send their children to Christian schools. [...] 21662 293 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:36:34 +0000601_- I guess the way I defined the word it would be. Perhaps the words prejudiced or bigoted would be more accurate.

-------------- Original message -------------- So when the English hate the Irish or the Germans hate the Swiss, that's racism? Judy

rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

Well Judy, if you want to really be acurate, race does not exist. Race is an atificial means to diferrentiate between people. Anthropology textbooks from 75 to a hundred years ago divided the human race into 75 to 100 races and now they will claim there are only 3 or 4. The term racism, as I use [...] 21956 1014 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:43:05 +0000614_- Well for one thing it promotes segregation in society. For another, some people would say that separate is inherently unequal.

P.S. I am sorry I misunderstood your first response. I am working on my response to your question. Unfortunetly it actually requires some thought.









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 22971 52 37_Look what I just found on Excite.com!0_20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:47:24 -0400 23024 46 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 17:03:07 -0700379_us-ascii Jon wrote: do you think that the concept of ethnically-based nationalism is racist?

Unfortunately, yes I do. I don't know how to reconcile the desire for a state that embodies Jewish values with the desire for a state whose primary ethnic/religious group is Jews. I don't believe that separate can be equal within one society, so I am left with a conundrum. [...] 23071 914 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 20:12:27 -0400600_us-ascii Wren I said I wasn't defending it to Richard, it didn't mean I was criticizing it either. It is foreign to me so I don't understand what the benefits are, Judy.

Jon Baum wrote:

> Judy, what's wrong with multiple school systems? Surely one size > doesn't fit all? > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh > [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] *On Behalf Of *Judy Gelman > *Sent:* Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:32 PM > *To:* HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > *Subject:* Re: Jon and Ethnocentism > > I leave it to Jessie or Jon or someone to explain [...] 23986 140 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 04:42:01 +0200327_US-ASCII Indeed. Quite a conundrum. Especially when you try to figure out exactly what are Jewish values.

Sharon, let's take another example. The Kurds - who are an ethnic group that live in a defined and contiguous area of the Middle East - have been struggling for their own state for many years. Is that racist? [...] 24127 22 13_Demonstartion11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 00:14:50 -0400560_ISO-8859-1 I am away from home and using my laptop which has a mini screen so I hope I am mistaken but in the Jpost pictures of the huge demonstration tonight it looks like there are small children dresses in nazi-style uniform. Please tell me I am wrong! Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 24150 26 11_unsubscribe14_)'( Albert )'(18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 21:14:43 -0700522_us-ascii -----Original Message----- From: HABONET automatic digest system Sent: Aug 11, 2005 9:00 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: HABONET Digest - 11 Aug 2005 (#2005-219)





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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 24177 44 17_Re: Demonstartion8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:33:29 +0200589_US-ASCII Judy, those kids are in dress-up army and police uniforms, sort of like for Purim.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judy Gelman Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 6:15 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Demonstartion



I am away from home and using my laptop which has a mini screen so I hope I am mistaken but in the Jpost pictures of the huge demonstration tonight it looks like there are small children dresses in nazi-style uniform. Please tell me I am wrong! Judy [...] 24222 24 17_Re: Demonstration12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 08:16:00 +0200342_iso-8859-1 I didn't see those pictures at the rally, but a report on TV about, I think, Netzarim, showed all the kids dressed up in army and police uniforms at Purim to show how much solidarity they had with the armed forces who were protecting them - trying to show that not all residents of the Gush were antagonistic to the soldiers. [...] 24247 228 27_Re: Please Boycott Wal-Mart12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 11 Aug 2005 23:41:42 -0700453_iso-8859-1 Hey Avi- My former boss, Robert Greenwald, is coming out with a documentary: "Coming soon to a Parking Lot Near You"= an expose of Wal-Mart--You should go to his website- which is a grass-roots effort to distribute the film, a la "tupperware parties"- But he has done some amazing things- although he is very "left-wing"- DZid the focumentaries about Fox ("Outfoxed" and about the war)- I worked for him doing TV films for 15 years--sue [...] 24476 257 27_Re: Please Boycott Wal-Mart12_Esther Cohen23_cohensteacy@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 07:03:52 -0400662_iso-8859-1 While I in no way intend to downplay the Wal-Mart situation, I wondered if/how much better KMart and Target are.

Thanks for the enlightenment.

Esther Cohen Mosh, etc.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Liberman" To: Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:41 AM Subject: Re: Please Boycott Wal-Mart



> Hey Avi- My former boss, Robert Greenwald, is coming > out with a documentary: "Coming soon to a Parking Lot > Near You"= an expose of Wal-Mart--You should go to his > website- which is a grass-roots effort to distribute > the film, a la "tupperware parties"- But he [...] 24734 304 27_ethnocentrism & nationalism16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:41:59 -0400553_us-ascii Borochov wrote that socialism is his maximalist goal, but Zionism is his minimalist requirement. By that we infer that universal freedom is the ultimate aspiration, but in the meantime we can happily settle for nationalist expression and self determination.

We certainly live in an era of ethnic devolutions. The Welsh & Scots have their own parliaments. The Basques and Catalans want autonomy from Spain. And in its post-Tito life, Yugoslavia is reverting to the behavior that gave the meaning of fragmentation to the term Balkan. [...] 25039 61 17_Re: Demonstartion11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:06:58 -0400630_us-ascii Thank you! Judy

Jon Baum wrote:

>Judy, those kids are in dress-up army and police uniforms, sort of like for >Purim. > >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Judy Gelman >Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 6:15 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Demonstartion > > >I am away from home and using my laptop which has a mini screen so I >hope I am mistaken but in the Jpost pictures of the huge demonstration >tonight it looks like there are small children dresses in nazi-style >uniform. Please tell me I am wrong! >Judy > [...] 25101 588 27_Re: Please Boycott Wal-Mart11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:18:15 -0400350_ISO-8859-1 Walmart is known to be a world class stand out in how it does business at every level, from bullying suppliers to purposefully destroying Main Street to putting enormous energy into preventing any foothold for unions. They closed a store in Canada rather than let the first one be organized. KMart and Target are just big box stores. [...] 25690 52 8_response13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:20:21 +0200440_windows-1255 one sees what one W A N T S to see.

shabbat shalom, pearl

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 25743 48 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:27:16 +0200455_iso-8859-1 there are separate school systems because most Arabs also do not want their kids to be in jewish schools. They WANT their children to learn Arabic, islamic history, islamic poetry, etc. They don't want their kids learning Tanach instead of the Koran. That is why there are separate school systems in Israel, and if we didn't have separate systems then we really would be accused of racism -- preventing Arabs from learning their heritage. [...] 25792 516 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 11:24:00 EDT360_US-ASCII Pearl Has the thought perhaps entered your mind that the Israeli Jewish School system which is in itself divided between secular and religious would be much healthier, and would be truer to a goal of education - that which might be defined as the delivery of knowledge necessary to live a full and meaningful life- if it was much less parochial. [...] 26309 625 27_Re: Please Boycott Wal-Mart0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 08:59:00 -0700656_iso-8859-1 KMart and Target are WAY better. When the world's largest (by far) employer is virulently anti-union, when the world's largest distributor of consumer goods applies relentless pressure on manufacturers to continually produce goods faster and cheaper (usually at the expense of their workers), it is a worldwide force for human and environmental degradation. No other retail outlet comes close to the impact that WalMart has. And this is not even touching on the social impacts of destroyed local businesses from WalMart moving in. Anybody remember the Southern California grocery store strikes last year? That was all about WalMart and its [...] 26935 87 12_Re: response0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:23:47 -0700739_us-ascii Indeed. Even Pearl.

Shabbat shalom, Sharon









Pearl Skolnik Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/12/2005 07:20 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: response



one sees what one W A N T S to see.

shabbat shalom, pearl





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 27023 147 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 09:36:22 -0700442_us-ascii I don't believe an ethnic group wanting political and/or economic autonomy is necessarily racist. If they create their autonomous region through the exclusion of other groups, or implement laws that give preference to their group over other groups, then they are acting in a racist fashion. I am using the term "racist" even though most of us agree that "race" is a red herring and we are really talking about ethnic groupings. [...] 27171 237 44_Re: Please Boycott Wal-Mart-Robert's website12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:38:16 -0700668_iso-8859-1 If you are interested in Robert Greenwald's website- and what his documentary is all about (Wal-Mart)- check out www.robertgreenwald.org. It will have links to the documentary projects- and you could even become a field producer!--sue

--- Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote:

> KMart and Target are WAY better. When the world's > largest (by far) > employer is virulently anti-union, when the world's > largest distributor of > consumer goods applies relentless pressure on > manufacturers to continually > produce goods faster and cheaper (usually at the > expense of their > workers), it is a worldwide force for human and > environmental [...] 27409 26 4_help14_)'( Albert )'(18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 13 Aug 2005 10:38:34 -0700537_us-ascii -----Original Message----- From: HABONET automatic digest system Sent: Aug 12, 2005 9:00 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: HABONET Digest - 11 Aug 2005 to 12 Aug 2005 (#2005-220)





.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 27436 83 28_Deuteronomy vs. Yellow Stars5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:31:32 +0200602_us-ascii Haverim/ot From the standpoint of weekly Tanach readings, we are now into the countdown to the High Holidays. Today's Shabbat reading is from the beginning of Devarim (Deuteronomy the fifth scroll of the Bible:) "These are the (introductory) words which Moses spoke unto all Israel while they were (ostensibly) still on the eastern side of the Jordan. (my interpolations)". I say ostensibly, because modern scholarship has found pretty strong prima facie evidence for Deuteronomy being a ''plant" by a group of religious reformers in Jerusalem during the reign of King Josiah in 621 BCE. [...] 27520 83 28_Deuteronomy vs. Yellow Stars5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 13 Aug 2005 21:25:38 +0200602_us-ascii Haverim/ot From the standpoint of weekly Tanach readings, we are now into the countdown to the High Holidays. Today's Shabbat reading is from the beginning of Devarim (Deuteronomy the fifth scroll of the Bible:) "These are the (introductory) words which Moses spoke unto all Israel while they were (ostensibly) still on the eastern side of the Jordan. (my interpolations)". I say ostensibly, because modern scholarship has found pretty strong prima facie evidence for Deuteronomy being a ''plant" by a group of religious reformers in Jerusalem during the reign of King Josiah in 621 BCE. [...] 27604 49 20_Re: dc-balto kumzits19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 00:47:16 -0700276_iso-8859-1

What time is pickup at Blair on Monday? Also, did you know that the Mosh website sends people to Tammy for info on the camp committee? I think that should be changed to you. Would you like me to bring it up at the next meeting? When is it, by the way. [...] 27654 69 84_Please ignore/delete last message from me. It was meant to be for one person. Sorry.19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 01:26:32 -0700330_iso-8859-1



Orit Lowy Chicherio wrote: What time is pickup at Blair on Monday? Also, did you know that the Mosh website sends people to Tammy for info on the camp committee? I think that should be changed to you. Would you like me to bring it up at the next meeting? When is it, by the way. [...] 27724 589 24_Re: Jon and Ethnocentism12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 10:26:34 +0200580_ISO-8859-1 Arab schools actually have many hours of instruction in Jewish heritage - I once heard that the total hours exceeded hours allocated to teaching Arab/Islamic heritage (certainly not Palestinian!) but I have not verified it. It is perhaps telling that I once mentioned Pirkei Avot to two friends, one who grew up on a Hashomer HaTzair kibbutz, and the other an Arab woman from Tirah. My Jewish friend said "What's Pirkei Avot, exactly". I asked him what came to mind and he said "A tv show? Or maybe a Jewish book?" The Arab woman said "I think it's something from [...] 28314 109 26_Mitnahalim and Bat Mitzvah5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:03:51 +0200575_us-ascii Haverot/im Our grand-daughter, Noa, is waiting out the week in Brooklyn where she will deliver a Dvar Torah on Shabbat. As you heard a couple of days from Hiam, clearly a proud uncle: Has the thought perhaps entered your mind that the Israeli Jewish School system which is in itself divided between secular and religious would be much healthier, and would be truer to a goal of education - that which might be defined as the delivery of knowledge necessary to live a full and meaningful life- if it was much less parochial. How cycloptic of you to pretend that [...] 28424 521 6_LHIAM113_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:48:01 +0200576_iso-8859-1 how liberal of you and your family. Just try to get the Arab community to agree to give up their separate school system and you will really see an intifada inside this country. Individual arabs do go to Jewish schools, but it is their decision to do so. Perhaps if Jewish secular children learned more about judaism and jewish history and Jewish literature (Tanach, mishna, etc.), there would be fewer of them leaving Israel when they grow older and have the chance. First, you make sure you have a solid grounding in your own culture and history and then you [...] 28946 113 26_Mitnahalim and Bat Mitzvah5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:57:42 +0200581_us-ascii Haverot/im Our grand-daughter, Noa, is waiting out the week in Brooklyn where she will deliver a Dvar Torah on Shabbat. As you heard a couple of days ago from Hiam, clearly a proud uncle:

Has the thought perhaps entered your mind that the Israeli Jewish School system which is in itself divided between secular and religious would be much healthier, and would be truer to a goal of education - that which might be defined as the delivery of knowledge necessary to live a full and meaningful life- if it was much less parochial. How cycloptic of you to pretend [...] 29060 55 10_Re: LHIAM10_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 13:41:04 EDT444_US-ASCII Yosher Koach, Pearl.

A tzum kal to everyone.

Ellen



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 29116 764 10_Re: LHIAM112_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 22:40:13 +0200564_iso-8859-1

"How liberal of you and your family" rings very snide. Haven't we all pledged not to 'go there'? I hope you didn't mean it that way.

Who could argue that Israeli Jewish kids need a better Jewish education - surely they are not getting it at the bilingual school - as parent of a child at that school and another at a religious school, I can attest to that first hand. We teach Yonati halakhah, midrash, musar, tefillah etc. at home and by example. (On the other hand, she does learn some yiddishkeit at school, and at the same time, [...] 29881 823 11_Re: jessica13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 14 Aug 2005 23:42:15 +0200623_iso-8859-1 Jessica, I did mean it. read how I was addressed and referred to in the letter which this one answered. re: religious education, despite the fact that my husband is an atheist and I just traditional but not religous, we sent our children to religious schools. They received an excellent education in their schools, which stressed Torat Yisrael, Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael. They had excellent secular teachers, and my daughter was able to get accepted at University to learn Biology, based on her matriculation grades. She, her brother and 4 cousins, all of whom received religious educations, also served [...] 30705 1124 11_Re: jessica12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 00:16:02 +0200702_iso-8859-1 I agree that the religious schools offer much that the secular schools lack. The richness of depth of the frame-of-reference (text, language, tradition, prayer, community responsibility, history). Note that while one of my two schoolage children attends the refreshing bilingual school, one attends a religious school. However, I stand behind my critique of the religious education not only on its secular failings in many instances, but in its shortcomings in religious education, its strengths relative to secular schooling notwithstanding. regret that ahavat ha'aretz, yisrael, v'torah often come unnecessarily bound to negation of the other (too threatening to our narrative??). As [...] 31830 31 14_Jesse and Hiam5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 14:30:24 +0200545_us-ascii Pearl I have a line from a song for you and a caution. The song: " Officer Krupke you've done it again. " What have you done? Your wrote > how liberal of you and your family. That zinger joins a long line of sarcastic put downs, holier than thous and scurrilous ad hominems. I'm now in the fox holes along with my embattled brothers and sisters Hiam and Jesse. The caution: one more intemperate outburst be it anti humanist, anti enlightenment, anti peace or pro Jewish obscuritan and I will pronounce a Cherem henceforward called [...] 31862 236 18_Re: Jesse and Hiam0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 08:46:48 EDT291_US-ASCII Pearl, there is a midrash that I learned at a very early age (probably from my liberal mother) One of the most famous questions in the bible is: Am I my brothers keeper? Text doesn't record God's answer but the midrash goes on to say that God's response was... DAMN STRAIGHT!! [...] 32099 55 18_Re: Jesse and Hiam12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 15:03:47 +0200415_iso-8859-1 To my brothers in worldview, Amnon and Hiam, and my sister in correspondence, Pearl - please don't pitch me in a camp or sign me onto any cherem. I'm part of the greater Habo 'harem.' And I have been inocculated with the 'serum' against the 'cherem ger(e)m'. So let's put on kelim levanim sheulim and meet in Tu Ba'Av in the 'kerem'. Yours in ahavat chinam, (if you can snare 'em, marry 'em) Jessie [...] 32155 84 9_Re: amriv13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:03:52 +0200569_iso-8859-1 you have one hell of a nerve telling ME i am anti-peace, anti-humanist, anti-enlightenment. perhaps with your other argument you meant to write I am just "pro-Jewish," rather than "pro-jewish obscurantum". I am hard put to describe any one else on this list who deserves the description "anti-humanist" as you well deserve. There is no one else on the list who harangues as you do against other Jews who do not fit into your world view. It is you who wrote to me that you were waiting for a civil war between Jews. God help us that a so-called educator [...] 32240 96 9_Re: amriv0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 20:47:05 +0000338_- Pearl stated: "In our day no one in Habonim would even think let alone write on this list what some people do about their fellow Jews or Israel."

I concur. When I was a member of Habonim no one would have thought to use the word 'liberal' as an insult. Especially someone so liberal as to be tolerant of Kahane's disciples. [...] 32337 157 32_Re: Deuteronomy vs. Yellow Stars0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:09:32 -0400588_us-ascii Amnon,

I'm happy to pick up keyboard and "talk" to you again. Things have been busy hereabouts. My wife, Mary (I name her, not because there is more than one to chose from, but as a curtesy to you and out of respect for her) has left her work with the Hospice of Central New York after 18 years and considerable national presesnce within that - what do I call it "movement?" She has taken a new position as Vice-President of the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization in Washington, D.C. which represents more than one-thousand hospices across the country [...] 32495 146 8_redsmith13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:17:24 +0200514_iso-8859-1 never once did i write that i am tolerant of kahane's deciples. I have always written that I see them as a severe danger. If I learn someone is a kachnik (it is not written on their foreheads), I keep my distance and I warn people against having too much to do with them. There is no where in what I have written that you can find I am tolerant of kahane's deciples. If you are referring to specific people, then I can tell you I did not know at the time I knew them that they were kachniks. young [...] 32642 67 13_Modesty Pearl0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:06:37 -0400587_us-ascii





the teaching of modesty: that is a very necessary commodity in the Israel of today, where many girls walk around dressed like prostitutes and where rapes are on the rise. .



Wow. The teaching of modesty. Girls walk around dressed like prostitues and get raped. If they would just dress modestly then they would not get raped? Oh Pearl this is the age old falacly. Dress your women in Burka's and they will be pure and not get raped. That is what they do in Pakistan and the gals get raped anyway. What is the next step? Keep the women [...] 32710 56 15_Akron and Amnon0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:26:30 -0400504_us-ascii Hey Amnon.

You asked why I was in Akron and Cleveland? Well it is not getting treated for cancer thank God. I am training people to do a new psychotherapy which I kind of invented. It is really fun but hard traveling all over the place. As for my cancer, I see Dr. Lieberman at the Pittsburgh Cancer Center on August 23rd. He will scan my brain and tell me if I am good to go for another three months. I hope I pass the exam. I think I will. Life is good. Life is short and so am I. [...] 32767 81 19_Re: Akron and Amnon0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 19:38:45 EDT415_US-ASCII



In a message dated 8/15/05 3:27:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, smfgrappa@AOL.COM writes:

Life is short and so am I.

Hee hee hee. Sam, I'm really interested in that "new psychotherapy. Maybe you could tell me about it off list?

I'm glad you're doing well......hope it continues.



Debbie



"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag [...] 32849 45 9_Re: amriv20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 15 Aug 2005 23:47:26 -0400519_US-ASCII Pearl

As many of us do, I delete a lot of letters that I suspect are prolonged arguments between 2 or 3 people that go on until I lose interest, or letters from chevre who are so informed intellectually or politically or so incredibly well-versed in literature and religion that everything they write is over my head. But after reading your latest response to Amnon (I must admit, I prefer Jessie's response to the whole matter) I really would like to know........ why do you subscribe to Habonet? [...] 32895 80 10_Re: shelly13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 07:02:36 +0200564_iso-8859-1 shelly, shalom, in answer to your questions, 1. habonim in america was not responsible for the great hate campaigns of the far-left. I don't look at our movement as the perpetrator of this sinat chinam. In Israel we see more of it. I remember how many in our own family were separated by the schisms of the Left. My three cousins, including one 12 years old, left kibbutz Ayelet HaShachar and moved north to set up kibbutz HaGoshrim with others who left the kibbutz because of the pilug in the very early 50's. My uncle and aunt remained in Ayelet [...] 32976 61 25_A request for sensitivity13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 01:21:25 -0400599_ISO-8859-1 Ok,chevreh--disengagement is actually happening. It's not done, but it is beginning.

Most of us on this listserve think that disengagement is a step in the right direction and we spend our time with people who think it is a step in the right direction. And most of us, including me who is a former synagogue president, would be classified as "secular" in Israel. So we could all spend the next couple of weeks gloating and pointing out all the ways in which elements of the national religious community are acting irresponsibly etc. It's tempting,. But let's try to keep this [...] 33038 86 29_Re: A request for sensitivity8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 08:42:08 +0200323_us-ascii Well said, Judy. I agree that we could always do with a more moderate tone here and especially now when tempers in Israel are running so high. What's happening in Israel now is not pretty and is likely to get much worse over the next couple of weeks. Let's be "smart" rather than "right" as we say over here. [...] 33125 43 15_Akron and Amnon5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:36:29 +0200579_us-ascii Sam This is the kind of news we need these days! Instead of the media feeding frenzy on the disengagement (it's what's has been substituted for reporting facts with a bit of background.) But your news both professional and medical calls for a celebration. Do you think you can make it to Washington kumzitz? It would be so nice catching up, particularly on your new psychotherapy therapy. About your brain scan - they should have done it long ago, not for malignancy but for brilliance and for right thinking oops left thinking. By the way, which part of the brain [...] 33169 63 28_Deuteronomy vs. Yellow Stars5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 11:36:35 +0200539_iso-8859-1 Dennis We've missed your voice in the choir. I was pleased to hear of the wonderful development in Mary's career as Vice-President of the National Hospice and Palliative Care Organization in Washington, D.C (Hi Mary !) also mazal tov to Rachel and India Lou. On a more ideo/theological level you wrote > I think I see, people through the ages doing their extraordinary best to discover God's will and purpose, to connect with what must be done to heal and restore the shekina, > I'd like to quote my Rebbe Yehuda Amicahi I [...] 33233 36 14_Jesse and Hiam5_Amriv22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 11:52:53 +0200604_us-ascii Jessica, You wrote "please don't pitch me in a camp or sign me onto any cherem." Pity! but you can still sign up for the second session. We're going to play "(if you can snare 'em, marry 'em)" Amnon



From: Jessica Bonn Subject: Re: Jesse and Hiam MIME-version: 1.0



To my brothers in worldview, Amnon and Hiam, and my sister in correspondence, Pearl - please don't pitch me in a camp or sign me onto any cherem. I'm part of the greater Habo 'harem.' And I have been inocculated with the 'serum' against the 'cherem ger(e)m'. So let's put [...] 33270 56 18_Re: Jesse and Hiam12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:51:47 +0200610_ISO-8859-1 'Sadie Hawkins' - always a favorite of mine at machaneh. Perhaps I'll comeup for visitors' weekend. Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amriv" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 11:52 AM Subject: Jesse and Hiam



> Jessica, > You wrote "please don't pitch me in a camp or sign me onto any cherem." > Pity! but you can still sign up for the second session. We're going to > play "(if you can snare 'em, marry 'em)" > Amnon > > > From: Jessica Bonn > Subject: Re: Jesse and Hiam > MIME-version: 1.0 > > > [...] 33327 74 29_Re: A request for sensitivity8_cpristoo17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:02:41 -0400633_ISO-8859-1 > Beautifully stated. Think: "shalom bayit." Allan S. Pristoop

===== Original Message From Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh ===== >Ok,chevreh--disengagement is actually happening. It's not done, but it >is beginning. > >Most of us on this listserve think that disengagement is a step in the >right direction and we spend our time with people who think it is a step >in the right direction. And most of us, including me who is a former >synagogue president, would be classified as "secular" in Israel. So we >could all spend the next couple of weeks gloating and pointing out all >the [...] 33402 25 10_Re: shelly20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:08:04 -0400487_US-ASCII Dear Pearl

Thank you for your response. I appreciate so much that you understood that I was not challenging you but asking a question I'd long wanted to ask.

Shelly

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 33428 39 27_Re: Please Boycott Wal-Mart0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:09:57 EDT411_US-ASCII Sue- I look forward to seeing his work!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 33468 983 23_Nice mention of Habonim11_Cheryl Cook16_cheryl@JESNA.ORG31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:07:51 -0400426_iso-8859-1 This is from the Galil Foundation for Value Education (Shorashim), a small non-profit in Israel that works toward intergroup understanding, using informal education to build the Galilee as a model of civil society. You can learn more at their website - I'm just sending this on because there is a nice-mention in #2 of Habonim! http://galilan.com/~hamakom/ ____________________________________________________ [...] 34452 150 32_Re: Deuteronomy vs. Yellow Stars0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 12:27:07 -0400552_us-ascii Amnon, Thank you for your wishes. The verses from Rebbe Amicahi offer a charming view and at the outset a view not dissimilar to my own, but that we should believe God forgot the Torah is too thin. Even a superficial reading of the Torah (as alas, mine will always be) reveals it to be a book of the people and their individual and group mistakes, misjudgments and perversions. I would say God left it behind for us with all its lessons for guidance, but that doesn't fit the neat metaphor of our seeking God's whereabouts so that we can [...] 34603 126 19_Re: Akron and Amnon0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:35:58 -0400504_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Amriv To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:36:29 +0200 Subject: Akron and Amnon



Sam This is the kind of news we need these days! Instead of the media feeding frenzy on the disengagement (it's what's has been substituted for reporting facts with a bit of background.) But your news both professional and medical calls for a celebration. Do you think you can make it to Washington kumzitz? [...] 34730 261 3_sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:20:45 +0200591_iso-8859-1 sam, I once read a letter to ann landers where a young woman asked how she could prevent being molested on a trip to Italy. She was answered thusly: wear gloves. Your clothes will announce (l'shader) to those who see you how you expect to be treated. Dress modestly and not provocatively and this will show you respect yourself and expect others to respect you. Obviously, I never forgot that answer. Israelis dress outrageously, with absolutely no understanding of what is appropriate dress for school and the work place. I have seen just about all. Girls go to school with [...] 34992 31 23_Re: Pearl assails amriv11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:05:40 +0000480_- Wow Pearl.

You say "There is no one else on the list who harangues as you do against other Jews who do not fit into your world view." and then go on to decry the labor and kibbutz movements.

You denounce Amnon for participating in a "great labour tradition of inciting against your fellow Jews who believe differently than you do." yet at other times you have scolded members of this listserv as not being Jews at all when they have differed from your views. [...] 35024 172 32_re violence, the expulsion, etc.13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:20:59 +0200568_windows-1255 I have not yet read any of the letters that evidently refer to me according to Judy, but I do wish to say that the overwhelming majority of the youth who are causing problems in Gush Katif are the thousands of kids who have sneaked in to the Gush and who do not live there. Also, in referring to the people in the Gush, although the majority are religious and have established flourishing, beautiful communities, there is a very sizable group of secular Jews who have set up communities there and in the northern samaria. Except for their dress, you [...] 35197 29 7_Kumsitz13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:55:34 -0400327_ISO-8859-1 The DC area kumsitz will be on Sat Oct 15, three days after Habonim's official 70th birthday.. It will be preceded by a book talk by Amnon at 5 PM, then a dairy potluck dinner and then the kumsitz--all at Adat Shalom Recon Congregation, in Bethesda, MD, very close to the Beltway. I will post directions later. [...] 35227 93 4_noam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:24:39 +0200525_iso-8859-1 . > Noam: > You say "There is no one else on the list who > harangues as you do against other Jews who do not fit into your world > view." and then go on to decry the labor and kibbutz movements.

Pearl: to write against people, to hope for a civil war, is not the same as to write what happened in the kibbutz and labour movement, which was used as an example of what happened in these movements because of sinat chinam. > Noam: > You denounce Amnon for participating in a "great labour tradition of > [...] 35321 103 7_singing0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:31:23 -0400523_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:20:45 +0200 Subject: sam



sam, I once read a letter to ann landers where a young woman asked how she could prevent being molested on a trip to Italy.

Tell her to avoid singing. "Kol Isha" is stimulating to a man and many orthodox forbid it. If we can just get the gals to stop singing, then we can cut back on rapes. Folk Music is especially bad. [...] 35425 153 19_Re: Akron and Amnon16_Beverly Schwartz19_beverly@HEVANET.COM31_Wed, 17 Aug 2005 13:13:17 -0700420_iso-8859-1 Sam,

I would also be very interested in learning more about your new psychotherapy. How can that happen? I am a psychotherapist in private practice in Portland, Oregon. My orientation is Gestalt and I open to learning something new.

Beverly Schwartz ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 3:26 PM Subject: Akron and Amnon [...] 35579 35 7_Re: sam11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 17 Aug 2005 23:18:04 +0200 35615 174 7_Re: sam0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:06:11 EDT622_US-ASCII







In a message dated 8/17/05 2:18:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

I hope I misunderstood what was written and suggested here since I am having a hard time believing that I am actually reading these words. But if not, the notion that the manner by which a woman dresses causes her to be raped is outrageous and despicable. I cannot believe that it was even mentioned here, let alone that no one has responded to such statements. Rape is an act of violence and there is no excuse for it, any other statement is an excuse for violent behavior [...] 35790 449 21_white gloves and rape13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 17 Aug 2005 21:52:28 -0400565_us-ascii The reasons for rape are extremely complex and in part culturally determined. In some cultures, rape is ritualized--for example, abduction and rape are used to claim a woman as a bride in some cultures, esp in central Asian cultures such as the Circissians and parts of Afghanistan.

What men find provocative is also culturally defined. I would bet that few men on this list would be turned on by the lotus blossom foot of the pre-revolutionary Chinese upper class. And the American obsession with breasts is inexplicable to most of the world. [...] 36240 66 11_From the UN11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 01:53:22 -0500397_us-ascii From: Best of the Web Today - August 17, 2005 By JAMES TARANTO

"The United Nations bankrolled the production of thousands of banners, bumper stickers, mugs, and T-shirts bearing the slogan 'Today Gaza and Tomorrow the West Bank and Jerusalem,' which have been widely distributed to Palestinian Arabs in the Gaza Strip, according to a U.N. official," the New York Sun reports: [...] 36307 24 14_kumsitz update19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:55:53 -0500500_us-ascii well my kids are back from camp and i told them about the upcoming kumzitz (oct 15). they are so excited, and immediately came up with a list of must-have songs. whaddya know--some of them are the same songs i sang! timeless....

the vaad kumsitz is working hard, and our shiron is growing. ask your kids for suggestions, and give a few of your own. many of you mentioned other shironim you had--get them out and send titles (or even lyrics) to richard (rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET). [...] 36332 126 23_To our chevre in Israel12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:46:40 -0700595_iso-8859-1 I just want you to know that personally, I am sharng in the pain of this difficult moment in our history. The images we are shown from the major news sources have been gut-wrenching; I am proud, however, to see the compassion and restraint of our soldiers and police. Where else in the world would one see such compassion and emotion and love....I can think of no other time when "Oseh Shalom alienu" has such meaning....Ehud Manor wrote a song--"Lalaechet shevi Acharayich"--which has a line- "Ulhavi el haolam od ben u'vat-me'eretz shel chalav, maror ud'vash"- how true..susie [...] 36459 28 27_Re: To our chevre in Israel19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:58:41 -0500530_us-ascii susie wrote: Ehud Manor wrote a song--"Lalaechet shevi >Acharayich"--which has a line- "Ulhavi el haolam od >ben u'vat-me'eretz shel chalav, maror ud'vash"- how >true



what do these words mean?

lisa >

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 36488 57 27_Re: To our chevre in Israel12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:21:15 -0700694_iso-8859-1 They mean ( and I made a little mistake- it's "be'eretz" not "me'eretz")-- "To bring another son and daughter into the land of milk, bitterness, and honey..."...sue

--- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote:

> susie wrote: > Ehud Manor wrote a song--"Lalaechet shevi > >Acharayich"--which has a line- "Ulhavi el haolam od > >ben u'vat-me'eretz shel chalav, maror ud'vash"- how > >true > > > what do these words mean? > > lisa > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > [...] 36546 129 23_to our troops in Israel13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:00:11 -0400586_iso-8859-1 The ones that really need the cheering are the 50,000 strong unarmed forces that are going in on foot, house by house, dislodging these religious fanatics and law breakers out of their hideouts. They are armed only with a blue protection vest and a blue cap, both emblazoned with the blue and white flag and shield (menorah) of the state. It is a peaceful, unarmed military operation unprecedented in history, both in its size and scope and in its organization details and aims. The 50,000 Jews doing it are the ones that need all the cheering for accomplishing for the [...] 36676 151 27_Re: to our troops in Israel13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 16:57:06 -0400560_us-ascii Thank you for this heartfelt email. We who love Israel but despair at what has been happening in the territories for the last 38 years have a lot to be proud of today. Judy

Yuval Warshai wrote:

> The ones that really need the cheering are the 50,000 strong unarmed > forces that are going in on foot, house by house, dislodging these > religious fanatics and law breakers out of their hideouts. They are > armed only with a blue protection vest and a blue cap, both emblazoned > with the blue and white flag and shield (menorah) of [...] 36828 64 15_painful lessons0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:03:01 -0700581_us-ascii This morning as I drove to work, I listened to the anguish of people leaving (or refusing to leave) their homes. Some of these people have lived in Gaza for 20+ years, longer than I have lived in any one place. I am a pacifist (hold the flames, please); I do not believe that violent means can produce peaceful ends. In attempts to prove to pacifists just how naive and misguided they are, non-pacifists often ask questions like, "would you have fought Hitler?" Questions like this show that the questioner has framed the issue too narrowly. Pacifists are not simply [...] 36893 181 16_Re: deb and judy13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:34:26 +0200568_iso-8859-1 i think Judy is correct and I did not mean to make sweeping observations that there is one cause and effect to the problem. I think it was obvious that I was expressing my opinion on one aspect. However, I can assure you from personal experience that provocative dress CAN and does lead to rape with certain men.. That is one cause. Basically, I do believe that rapists are angry and violent people and for some rapists, true, it doesn't matter what the woman/girl wears. Clothes or the lack of do bear a message,however. In some societies the lack of [...] 37075 67 16_Re: deb and judy0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:38:45 EDT612_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/18/2005 6:35:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

I can assure you from personal experience that provocative dress CAN and does lead to rape with certain men.. That is one cause.



No Pearl the cause was the man not the dress.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 37143 90 16_Re: deb and judy0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 15:41:15 -0700605_us-ascii Spoken like a mensch.

Sharon









LHIAM1@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/18/2005 03:38 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: deb and judy



In a message dated 8/18/2005 6:35:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes: I can assure you from personal experience that provocative dress CAN and does lead to rape with certain men.. That is one cause. No Pearl the cause was the man not the dress. [...] 37234 487 44_reaction to the disengagement from Shomernet13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:56:44 -0400700_us-ascii An interesting posting from a bogeret Hashomer who has been watching TV today in Israel- Judy

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [ShomerNet] reaction to the disengagement Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 01:28:36 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time) From: mihale@actcom.co.il Reply-To: ShomerNet@yahoogroups.com To: ShomerNet@yahoogroups.com





hevre shalom, have been reading w/ interest the personal looks at the disengagement. thank you all for sharing thoughts. here are mine: like miriam, I've been stuck to the news, me that hasn't turned the tv on in half a year, is suddenly letting errands, the garden, and work go by the wayside while I stare in revolted [...] 37722 92 16_Re: deb and judy19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 18:30:05 -0700643_iso-8859-1 Which one?

Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote: Spoken like a mensch.

Sharon





LHIAM1@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/18/2005 03:38 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: deb and judy



In a message dated 8/18/2005 6:35:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes: I can assure you from personal experience that provocative dress CAN and does lead to rape with certain men.. That is one cause. No Pearl the cause was the man not the dress. [...] 37815 48 27_Re: to our troops in Israel0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:50:01 EDT448_US-ASCII It is very appropriate to acknowledge all the 50,000 soldiers and police for the work that they carried out these last days. They did their

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 37864 46 27_Re: to our troops in Israel0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:52:21 EDT441_US-ASCII hit the SEND by mistake before finishing. You can all hit the DELETE!

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 37911 69 16_Re: judy & pearl11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:29:45 +0200 37981 56 3_NPR0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:35:23 +0000326_- With the constant drumbeat of criticism of NPR by some I was wondering if anyone else had been listening to NPR (especially Morning Edition) this week.

Specifically I was wondering if those who are so consistant in their criticism of NPR had been listening to how they have covered the news from Gaza this week. [...] 38038 5335 71_Israeli State vs Secessionist Eretz Yisrael was To our chevre in Israel6_Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:38:16 +0200429_us-ascii Techezakna the hands, hearts, and minds of all our Chaverot/im;

This was the first week since 1975 when the sovereign government of the State of Israel conceded to the secessionist government of Gush Emunim. The GE a lawless and malignant appendix they called "Eretz Yisrael" trumped Medinat Israel. It happened at Sebastia in the occupied West Bank. Read the attached Ha'aretz editorial for a backgrounder. [...] 43374 115 7_Re: NPR0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 07:35:28 -0700305_us-ascii I have been listening to the coverage this week and have found it to be sensitive and compelling. The stories have helped me appreciate the anguish being experienced on all (Israeli) sides. I am not among those who constantly criticize NPR, so I probably listen with a more sympathetic ear. [...] 43490 173 16_Re: judy & oearl13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:08:03 -0400379_ISO-8859-1 Dear Batel,

You and I agree, Nothing justifies rape. Nothing.

Rape is more than just pure violence. It is also about power --in particular, power of men over women. My point is that how those power relationships are defined, and how and under what conditions men select victims have cultural elements.. Some rapists may be born but others are made. [...] 43664 183 16_Re: judy & oearl0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:12:49 +0000354_- Without getting into the nitty gritty of the discussion here I do have one thing to add.

I have a problem with referring to criminals, in this case rapists, as having a "sick mind." If it is indeed true that violent individuals have "sick minds," then arrest and prosecution would not be called for, since sickness is treated not punished. [...] 43848 646 14_Meretz summary13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 15:15:34 -0400561_iso-8859-1 Below is a copy of Meretz's "Weekly Update." It is a very good summary of the events of the past week in Israel, plus a good overview of the prospects for country and society in the future in light of these events. It includes the links to the best analysis pieces that can be found on the situation, and an interesting short numeric summary of facts (Weekly Index) at the bottom. Of the articles recommended (with live links that will take the reader immediately to each one of them), special mention should be made of the ones by Bambi Sheleg [...] 44495 151 16_Re: deb and judy0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:30:39 -0700623_us-ascii Haim.

Sharon









Orit Lowy Chicherio Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/18/2005 06:30 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: deb and judy



Which one?

Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote:

Spoken like a mensch.

Sharon







LHIAM1@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/18/2005 03:38 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 44647 195 29_What the media aren't showing12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sat, 20 Aug 2005 00:50:04 -0700428_Windows-1252 This reviews the failures of the Israeli media to expose the Gaza melodrama for the theater that it is. As for here in the U.S. most of the coverage I've heard is quite similar. All about the poor, suffering settlers, who were actually living quite high on the hog on land stolen from its owners -- or from those who had already been made refugees once or twice. This has been as true of NPR as of the others. [...] 44843 80 33_Re: What the media aren't showing13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 20 Aug 2005 10:17:13 -0400461_windows-1252 Dear David,

Thank you for this article. Was it published somewhere?

Having been in Gush Katif and having heard the same people say out of one side of their mouths that they refuse to talk to the government or make any preparations and then out of the other to complain that they don't know where they will live and what will happen to them, my ability to sympathize with the hold outs is thinner than that of most people I know. [...] 44924 51 11_judy: kudos13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 20 Aug 2005 21:53:01 +0200456_windows-1255 judy, your essay on cultural factors and rape was excellent and says it all, as well as being very well presented. shavua tov u'm'vorach, pearl

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 44976 136 27_Re: painful lessons: Sharon13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:34:53 +0200599_iso-8859-1 Sharon, you seem not to know that after the Six Day War there was a conference of Arab States and they came out with a declaration stating they would not negotiate with Israel, refusing recognition of Israel, as well. Israel had offered to return the lands won in the Six Day War in exchange for Peace and the Arabs refused outright. No negotiations, No peace, No recognition. It was then that Israel began building in the disputed territories. The first was Jerusalem. Since Jordan attacked Jerusalem from all sides, except from the west, which was Israeli territory, all the areas [...] 45113 1082 41_Re: Meretz summary, the settlers and more13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 00:29:38 +0200371_iso-8859-1 important to mention: 1. the 'radical settler' who carried out the murders in shilo was a completely secular Jew (the only one) in the community and had been treated earlier for psychiatric problems. The murders caused Israel great damage, in addition to their being morally apprehensible. I fear what the Arabs will do in revenge for this dastardly act. [...] 46196 741 37_religious zionist does heshbon nefesh12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 07:45:10 +0200611_windows-1255 Source: Source: The Jerusalem Post, August 16, 2005.

Dear Friends – We Made a Mistake

Bambi Sheleg *(founder and editor of Eretz Aheret magazine)





Jerusalem - Dear Friends: I look at the pictures of the looting from the settlement of Nisanit, which has already begun, and I know that the coming weeks will be too difficult to bear. The demolition of the houses and the communities built in the Katif region in the past 36 years, the expected clash with the IDF and the celebrations of the Palestinians – all these are a sure recipe for terrible heartbreak. [...] 46938 60 10_disclaimer12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:08:45 +0200555_windows-1255 I do not identify with Bambi Sheleg's position - just thought it may be of interest. For another angle (Israel's 'other's looking on at the behaviors of a 'strange tribe', see today's Ha'aretz: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/613439.html Jessie

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 46999 106 29_A Morality Tale for Pacifists12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:11:25 +0200788_us-ascii Haverim/Haverot

The Dangers of Disengagement: For those who don't live here, are not in the know or are self hating.

Chicken Little was in the woods one day when an acorn fell on her head. It scared her so much she trembled all over. She shook so hard, half her feathers fell out. Chicken Little: "Help! Help! The sky is falling! I have to go tell the king!" Narrator: So she ran in great fright to tell the king. Along the way she met Henny Penny. Henny Penny: "Where are you going, Chicken Little?" Chicken Little: "Oh, help! The sky [...] 47106 25 11_Danny Pearl0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 12:12:23 +0000464_- The following is from Daniel Pearl's wife's memoir about her murdered husband.

"The men guarding Danny spoke very limited English. He couldn't communicate with them or they with him. I suppose that's why they didn't notice what he was doing with his fingers when they took Polaroids of him—flashing a victory sign to us with one hand, shooting the bird to them with the other. And they couldn't control the spirit and defiance he showed in his face. [...] 47132 200 33_Re: A Morality Tale for Pacifists12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 08:46:28 -0700681_iso-8859-1 Dear Amnon- AWhile I understand the allegory, I am not sure I understand the intent...Can you explain?--susie

--- amnon hadary wrote:

> Haverim/Haverot > > The Dangers of Disengagement: For those who don't > live here, are not in > the know or are self hating. > > Chicken Little was > in the woods one day > when an acorn fell on her head. It scared her so > much she trembled all > over. She shook so hard, half her feathers fell > out. > Chicken Little: > "Help! > Help! The sky is > falling! I [...] 47333 1086 41_Fw: Meretz summary, the settlers and more13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:07:41 +0200395_iso-8859-1





important to mention: 1. the 'radical settler' who carried out the murders in shilo was a completely secular Jew (the only one) in the community and had been treated earlier for psychiatric problems. The murders caused Israel great damage, in addition to their being morally apprehensible. I fear what the Arabs will do in revenge for this dastardly act. [...] 48420 1594 41_Re: Meretz summary, the settlers and more8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 22 Aug 2005 02:22:38 +0200569_us-ascii Dear Pearl,

One can find plenty of cynicism here, if you know where to look. As someone who's been watching way too much TV over the last week, I have a couple of observations on the Pinui so far and on how you see it.

Ariel Sharon didn't adapt the Labor Party platform on the Gaza Strip settlements because he thinks peace is around the corner; the opposite is true. It is called "hitnatkut" because he came to the conclusion that the only way to deal with the problem of Palestinian terrorism is to withdrawal to defendable lines, both in [...] 50015 241 16_more on Wal-Mart0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Sun, 21 Aug 2005 21:38:18 EDT637_US-ASCII





In globalization twist, unions target Wal-Mart worldwide

Sun Aug 21, 3:56 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - A global coalition of unions is launching an unprecedented campaign to organize workers around the world at US retail giant Wal-Mart, seeking to bring a new level of globalization to the labor movement. ADVERTISEMENT

The Wal-Mart campaign was set to be officially launched at a meeting in Chicago Monday of Union Network International (UNI), a group that includes 900 unions in some 140 countries. [...] 50257 314 41_Re: Meretz summary, the settlers and more13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 22 Aug 2005 00:15:54 -0400724_iso-8859-1 MessageThe idea that the Gaza settlers, with a National Religious majority, a National Religious leadership, a National Religious ideological core, plus a small number of people from lower economic strata, usually from the Middle Eastern communities ('edot), mostly attracted to these isolated communities in the middle of enemy territory by the economic and quality of life incentives, built their settlements on their own, without government support, subsidy, incentive, and military protection, is ridiculous and preposterous. The Labor governments did not start or initiate the settlement policies. These settlement policies were started and initiated by the settlers themselves, beginning with Levinger [...] 50572 99 41_Re: Meretz summary, the settlers and more0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:15:36 EDT626_US-ASCII

In a message dated 08/22/2005 12:18:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:

always believed exactly the same way, whether I lived there, or not. This type of rational political stance and analysis is not dependent on where you live whatsoever. That is why I went out many times over the years to shout and demonstrate against settlements, and why I faced the threat of military prison for refusing to serve in the conquered territories. Besorot tovot now come to me directly from the mouth of Sharon and Olmert, since they changed their minds and recognized their errors. ___ [...] 50672 61 46_Arik Sharon caused the rift in Israeli society11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:51:25 +0200561_windows-1255 Efey Eitan was only partial right when he said that Arik Sharon caused the rift in Israeli society. It was not because of disengagement, but the fact that he was the guiding force behind the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza in the first place.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 50734 96 18_one nation or two?11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:49:50 +0200467_windows-1255 Back in the 70’s I realized on of two things might happen in the West Bank and Gaza. We abandon the settlements and allow the formation of a Palestinian State. If not the Palestinian leadership will eventually realize that that there is another way for them; let the settlements stay, but demand annexation of the land and its people, with full citizenship. This will be accepted around the world. Then what will we do? What options will have left? [...] 50831 73 46_Arik Sharon caused the rift in Israeli society11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:52:24 +0200595_windows-1255 Efey Eitan was only partial right when he said that Arik Sharon caused the rift in Israeli society. It was not because of disengagement, but the fact that he was the guiding force behind the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza in the first place.





Arie Levin

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 50905 48 46_Arik Sharon caused the rift in Israeli society11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:36:19 +0200620_windows-1255 Efey Eitan was only partial right when he said that Arik Sharon caused the rift in Israeli society. It was not because of disengagement, but the fact that he was the guiding force behind the settlements in the West Bank and Gaza in the first place.





Arie Levin





Back in the 70’s I realized on of two things might happen in the West Bank and Gaza. We abandon the settlements and allow the formation of a Palestinian State. If not the Palestinian leadership will eventually realize that that there is another way for them; let the settlements stay, but demand [...] 50954 109 22_Re: one nation or two?0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 07:14:08 EDT418_US-ASCII might happen in the West Bank and Gaza. We abandon the settlements and allow the formation of a Palestinian State. If not the Palestinian leadership will eventually realize that that there is another way for them; let the settlements stay, but demand annexation of the land and its people, with full citizenship. This will be accepted around the world. Then what will we do? What options will have left? [...] 51064 112 33_Re: What the media aren't showing0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:10:22 -0700607_us-ascii While this article brings a point of view not being expressed much currently, it seems counter-productive to say "f*ck these damned settlers" at this point in time. Personally, I find the empathetic coverage of the evacuations to be helpful--the coverage is helping me to move to a new stage of understanding of the rifts in Israeli society. The various divides in Israel will not be alleviated by one side "winning" while the other side "loses." The divides will be bridged when a way forward is found that addresses the concerns/fears/dreams of all parties, and such a way forward cannot be [...] 51177 167 27_Re: painful lessons: Sharon0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 08:17:20 -0700464_us-ascii I did not say "Israel should have resolved the issues 30 years before." I said "Had Israel ... resolved the issues 30 years ago ..." There is a subtle difference between saying what should have happened (what Pearl says I said) and saying what I wish had happened (what I actually said). To say that we could not have done anything different from what we did is to miss the lessons of history. There are always choices, and there are always lessons. [...] 51345 22 21_Partition Controversy12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:46:59 +0200510_us-ascii Sorry that my posting about the 1937 Controversy over the British Partition Plan ran into problems with my computer literacy.

Amnon

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 51368 46 28_Fwd: Partition Controversy 212_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:55:41 +0200673_us-ascii Apologies. This is what I retrieved from the unsuccessful first mailing.

>To: HABONET automatic digest system >From: amnon hadary >Subject: Partition Controversy > >Haverot/im >Because the Shamash list serve limits the length of messages one can send >to Habonet I split this posting. The "big" half is in the >attachment. - It is virus free. I did some research to find some >parallels if any between the stance of Orthodoxy in the late '30s and the >anti-disengagement stalwarts of today. The major difference I found was >one of attitude. Today's rooftop recalcitrants are much more self >assured and [...] 51415 105 33_Re: What the media aren't showing12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 11:23:26 -0700435_iso-8859-1 I agree, adding only that perhaps we can hope empathy with the settlers who were, among other things, cynically used by Sharon and the rest of the expansionists, may also inspire some greater understanding and empathy for the many times more Palestinian civilian, non-combatant families in Gaza who lost their homes as a result of the occupation, not to mention the hundredfold more who lost their homes in 1948. David [...] 51521 58 7_shelley13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:44:30 +0200568_windows-1255 shelly, shalom, you once wrote me on the list asking why I continue to stay on Habonet if my beliefs do not tally with what some claim to be Habonim ideology. I claim that I have not changed, but Habonim must have. There are at least two people on this list to whom you should have written the same question, since they write accusations against Israel antithetical to Zionism and contrary to known zionist history. I really wonder what these two people are doing on Habonet. I am at least loyal to the State, whereas they hurl accusations at Israel [...] 51580 257 27_Re: painful lessons: Sharon13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:48:22 +0200621_iso-8859-1 i fail to see the "subtle differences" that you mention below. There was no one to talk to then, as there is no one to talk to now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:17 PM Subject: Re: painful lessons: Sharon





I did not say "Israel should have resolved the issues 30 years before." I said "Had Israel ... resolved the issues 30 years ago ..." There is a subtle difference between saying what should have happened (what Pearl says I said) and saying what I wish had happened (what I actually said). [...] 51838 99 11_Re: shelley0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 17:33:02 EDT320_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/23/2005 4:45:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

you once wrote me on the list asking why I continue to stay on Habonet if my beliefs do not tally with what some claim to be Habonim ideology. I claim that I have not changed, but Habonim must have. [...] 51938 206 27_Re: painful lessons: Sharon0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 14:48:24 -0700723_us-ascii It is quite clear that you don't see the differences. Maybe its a language thing.

Sharon









Pearl Skolnik Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/23/2005 01:48 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: painful lessons: Sharon



i fail to see the "subtle differences" that you mention below. There was no one to talk to then, as there is no one to talk to now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 5:17 PM Subject: Re: painful lessons: Sharon [...] 52145 97 11_Re: shelley0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 15:14:48 -0700704_us-ascii Anybody want to place bets on which 2?

Sharon









Pearl Skolnik Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/23/2005 01:44 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: shelley



shelly, shalom, you once wrote me on the list asking why I continue to stay on Habonet if my beliefs do not tally with what some claim to be Habonim ideology. I claim that I have not changed, but Habonim must have. There are at least two people on this list to whom you should have written the same question, since they write accusations [...] 52243 55 7_Sniping13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:48:00 -0400515_us-ascii Could we all stop sniping for a moment and breathe a sigh of relief that the era of settlement in Gaza came to an end without a settler killing a soldier or a soldier killing a settler? Bvirkat shalom- Judy

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 52299 141 11_Re: shelley0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 23 Aug 2005 22:49:03 +0000471_- I'll start a betting pool. Ranging from Steve 1000 to 1, to me, 1 to 1000.









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 52441 516 51_Fw: A Little Historical Review.....................11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:00:30 -0700596_Windows-1252

In the interest of additional history, unchecked by snopes. No agenda is intended to be promulgated here.

Steve



Subject: A Little History.....................



A friend in Israel sent this to me:

"I am always amazed at how much we claim to know & how much more we are easily trained to forget. In addition, how easy is it for those of us still sitting safe & sound in our nice homes in the US (of which I was one, until 2 yrs ago - although I spent 15 yrs here prior to that - including army service & university) to patronize [...] 52958 231 75_Fw: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:36:28 -0700481_utf-8

Fellow Habonetters

I heard the on-air interview with Mr. Graham. This event is as chilling as I have experienced. To think that CAIR is going to decide how America is going to be run is beyond frightening.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!









WMAL Radio Talk Show Host, Michael Graham, Fired for Statements Connecting Islam to Terrorism!!! [...] 53190 542 38_Fw: Please Take The Time To Write Now!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:40:26 -0700478_iso-8859-1

Here is another site for action to protest the media capitulation to CAIR.

Steve



Subject: Please Take The Time To Write Now!



To all my readers: I am forwarding this message to you.

Please show your support for Michael Graham by complaining to ABC Radio about his dismissal following lobbying by the Council of American Islamic Relations (CAIR). Also you can email your support to him on mail@michaelgraham.com [...] 53733 167 75_Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:56:58 -0400447_us-ascii

Steve:

Maybe I missed it, but what did Graham say to get fired? Three people just got fired from am SF sports station for making racist comments about Caribbean baseball players.

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 11:36:28 -0700 Subject: Fw: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION! [...] 53901 47 75_Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:55:45 -0500505_ISO646-US ken graham said islam was a terrorist organization, something like 23 times in one radio broadcast. he also said that "moderate islam" only wants to kill jews, not everyone. the station rec'd tons of mail objecting to the comments, and wanted graham to say he was talking in hyperbole.

lisa





>From: kbob24@AOL.COM >Date: Wed Aug 24 13:56:58 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION! [...] 53949 40 15_grahams remarks0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:08:29 +0000536_- According to the Washington Times (suspect) this was his statement:

"Because of the mix of Islamic theology that -- rightly or wrongly -- is interpreted to promote violence, added to an organizational structure that allows violent radicals to operate openly in Islam's name with impunity, Islam has, sadly, become a terrorist organization. It pains me to say it. But the good news is it doesn't have to stay this way, if the vast majority of Muslims who don't support terror will step forward and reclaim their religion." [...] 53990 40 19_graham's remarks II0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 20:26:48 +0000494_- According to CAIR (suspect) these were his remarks:

The controversy began last month when Graham stated: 1. "Islam is a terrorist organization." 2. "Islam is at war with America." 3. "The problem is not extremism. The problem is Islam." 4. "We are at war with a terrorist organization named Islam." Other listeners said that Graham even encouraged a public "backlash" against Muslims. (Graham later claimed he meant a backlash of social pressure, not violent attacks on Muslims.) [...] 54031 255 75_Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:41:03 -0400360_us-ascii Lisa & Richard, thanks on the Graham remarks.

Although there are three slightly different versions of what he said, I am confident that if any talk show host said, in any context that "Judaism is a terrorist organization," the ADL would have the person not only fired but worse :-). Sounds like the CAIR has been learning from the master. [...] 54287 227 3_sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 22:41:37 +0200578_iso-8859-1

SHELLEY: you once wrote me on the list asking why I continue to stay on Habonet if my beliefs do not tally with what some claim to be Habonim ideology. I claim that I have not changed, but Habonim must have. PEARL

SAM: - Your poorly hidden animosity to the Labor Movement, the "Left" and occasionally to the kibbutz movement indicates that you have evolved away from the Habonim values of your youth. I think you would be much smarter to admit that and tell us why you have changed. Actually, the entire Gush Emunim movement likes to pretend that [...] 54515 558 55_Re: Fw: A Little Historical Review.....................0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:41:10 +0000506_- One little problem (at least) with the factual history of Gaza; "Ishmael" is a mythical figure not an historical one.







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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 55074 62 39_CALL FOR "VOICES FROM THE PAST"! GILBOA0_15_ronoren@AOL.COM31_Wed, 24 Aug 2005 23:37:30 -0400307_us-ascii Something different from the current discussions, I know!

I hold the archive of old Gilboa memories, and I'm in the process of going through reel to reel tapes of material dating to the early Sixties. In order to preserve it, it will be digitized and available to Those Who Were There. [...] 55137 198 75_Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 06:57:11 -0700422_iso-8859-1 This is not true- Look at all of the talk radio which is anti-Israel and anti-Semetic-or rants and raves about Christianity or blacks[ this is purely a free-speech issue, and Graham said nothing that wasn't poised to be argued ( or not). He didn't say "f&^^%%$k, or anything not allowed on radio or TV...This is a disgusting use of power by ABC, and it should be boycotted until they get the message...sue [...] 55336 182 30_Some thoughts on disengagement28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:42:10 +0200596_iso-8859-1 I’ve been following the discussion between Pearl, Sam and others (plus assorted articles by outside sources) about the recently completed disengagement. I have a slightly different take on the subject and I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing with all of the discussants at various times.

First, I want to point out that I was in favor of the disengagement from the moment Ariel Sharon proposed it until now when it is completed. I have observed the whole Katif enterprise from close proximity and from the first I felt that we Jews had no future there. It was not a [...] 55519 205 75_Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:30:01 +0000427_- I don't know about talk radio in LA but here in Baltimore all talk radio (except NPR) is extremely right wing (at least three different AM stations) and I have never heard a word of criticism of Israel or anything approaching anti-Semitism. I do know that a great number of years ago, a local retailer sponsored a local talk show host's trip to Israel and when he came back and was critical of Israel he was forced out. [...] 55725 74 7_Re: sam0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:12:31 -0400603_us-ascii



PEARL: I never "poorly hid animosity to the Labor Movement, the "left" and occasionally to the kibbutz>" I did not evolve away from Habonim values of my youth. If ever the Emperor was seen to have no clothes, it was the Histadrut itself.



Pearl. You sound just like my Likudnik father-in-law. There is no question in my mind that the there were problems with the Histadrut and Kibbutz Movement and the human errors got in the way. But I am not terribly impressed with the honesty and independence of the religous part of Israel. The waste at the Histadrut is [...] 55800 32 75_Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 15:40:53 -0400624_us-ascii Sue wrote: > this is purely a free-speech issue

It really isn't. Nobody has a right to free speech, except against government interference. If your employer doesn't like what you say, she or he is free to dismiss you (unless you work for a government agency).

As a person who has been involved in the hiring and firing of employees, I personally wouldn't fire anybody because of her or his political beliefs unless those beliefs interfered with the employee's ability to perform her or his job effectively. But I recognize that the standard of effective job performance is considerably different [...] 55833 79 82_[BULK] Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:48:54 +0000571_- I've heard a bit of Michael Savage on the radio. I find him unbelievable distasteful but have never heard any anti-semitism. Could you explain why you said he was. Thank you.

-------------- Original message --------------

> Sue wrote: > > this is purely a free-speech issue > > It really isn't. Nobody has a right to free speech, except against government > interference. If your employer doesn't like what you say, she or he is free to > dismiss you (unless you work for a government agency). > > As a person who has been involved in the hiring and [...] 55913 15 62_IHT.com Article: Palestinians are on the right side of history0_22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:05:09 -0400 55929 27 75_Re: Islamic Terror-Supporting Group Squelches Free Speech in U.S. - ACTION!12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:26:07 -0400556_us-ascii >>> I've heard a bit of Michael Savage on the radio. I find him unbelievable distasteful but have never heard any anti-semitism. Could you explain why you said he was. Thank you. <<<

According to the liberal media watchdog group FAIR, Savage has described Jerry Springer (who is Jewish) as "a filthy, degenerate human being ... with his hooked nose." He frequently refers to a fictional ACLU lawyer named "Mark Nobodyberg." When Senator Lieberman ran for president, Savage said "he's throwing his bagel into the ring to be president." [...] 55957 173 18_ephraim perlmutter13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:45:58 +0200565_windows-1255 Shalom, Ephraim!

While I can agree with almost all you write, your last paragraph disturbed me. If the government knew all along they were going to destroy and disengage, they did not NEED to speak to the settlers. All they had to do was prepare the land and build new settlements within the Green Line for the settlers. They did not do this and this has led the government to s pend perhaps 4 times what the original estimate was for the resettlement of these people. We are speaking here of mega billions. I have read that it is expected [...] 56131 226 8_Fw: sam:13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:54:04 +0200570_iso-8859-1 SHELLEY: you once wrote me on the list asking why I continue to stay on Habonet if my beliefs do not tally with what some claim to be Habonim ideology. I claim that I have not changed, but Habonim must have. PEARL

SAM: - Your poorly hidden animosity to the Labor Movement, the "Left" and occasionally to the kibbutz movement indicates that you have evolved away from the Habonim values of your youth. I think you would be much smarter to admit that and tell us why you have changed. Actually, the entire Gush Emunim movement likes to pretend that [...] 56358 443 34_Re: Some thoughts on disengagement0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 17:36:54 -0400427_us-ascii Efraim:

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences with us. Your insight into the agricultural angle was new to me. I also agree with your "Chutzpa Award" to the settlers who refused to cooperate with the authorities and now wonder why "arrangements weren't made." Whatever the political ramfications, I just don't understand subjecting their children to such unnecessary hardships. [...] 56802 294 7_Re: sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:37:29 +0200527_iso-8859-1 sam, you are truly flying high. what right have you to tell me I gave up interest in social justice? What kind of platitudes are you voicing? I am very happy you write you have values. If you didn't write it I would never know it. I did not have a bad experience in a moshav shitufi. I lived in a moshav ovdim --two of them actually. I stated a fact of the nature of kibbutz and moshav living. Every kibbutz and every moshav experienced what I wrote about. And where did you get your figures about the waste in [...] 57097 206 7_Re: sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:53:28 EDT352_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/25/2005 5:38:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

sam, you are truly flying high. what right have you to tell me I gave up interest in social justice? What kind of platitudes are you voicing? I am very happy you write you have values. If you didn't write it I would never know it. [...] 57304 59 34_Re: Some thoughts on disengagement0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:25:29 EDT493_US-ASCII Efraim

I read every word and I learned a lot. I found what you said to be informative.

Thank you

Sam

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 57364 41 34_Re: Some thoughts on disengagement0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 19:38:37 EDT402_US-ASCII Wonderful insights. Thanks Avi

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 57406 39 26_Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 23:46:56 -0400313_ISO-8859-1 My apologies for reviving a subject from earlier in the month, but I'm behind in my reading.

Like many of the others on the list, I am astonished that in the 21st century an otherwise intelligent person could believe that women are to blame for being raped because of how they are dressed. [...] 57446 52 34_Re: Some thoughts on disengagement20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 25 Aug 2005 22:32:49 -0700501_iso-8859-1 Efraim--

Thanks for your calm and reasoned thoughts on the disengagement process, and a little of the history behind it. Your analysis, supported by what you have seen and lived through, supports what I have felt throughout this process, but without the firsthand experience.

Be well.

Naomi Goldberg Honor

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [...] 57499 75 23_Efraim replies to Pearl28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:26:11 +0200345_iso-8859-1 Pearl,

Thank you for responding to my letter. In your response you wrote the following:

"If the government knew all along they were going to destroy and disengage, they did not NEED to speak to the settlers. All they had to do was prepare the land and build new settlements within the Green Line for the settlers." [...] 57575 197 32_: Some thoughts on disengagement12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:40:18 +0200558_us-ascii Ephraim shalom, First I want to tell you that you made my Shabbat. Why? Because "I have learned from all who taught me and most of all from my students" The piece you wrote yesterday was yet another lesson.You should write more often. This week's Torah portion is Ekev, and the end of the Haftarah reads "the LORD hath comforted Zion; He hath comforted all her waste places, and hath made her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD" You have made the desert like a garden all these years. Where? Moshav Sde Nitzan 7.9 [...] 57773 59 26_Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:03:54 +0200356_ISO-8859-1 I believe the original is actually 'baba' maiseh - the kind told at the city gate. Anyone else familiar with this etymological quirk, or is it, too a 'maiseh'? Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" To: Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:46 AM Subject: Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs [...] 57833 97 27_Tell it not in Gath nor ...12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 14:28:08 +0200475_us-ascii Steve, Thanks to your friend who sent the material in "A Little Historical Review." I understand that the thrust of what he said is that the Palestinians like the Philistines were johnny-come-late lies. But This is a no trump game. Our very own Father Abraham, the one who was told "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee" came into a country that was populated from time immemorial. [...] 57931 245 7_Re: sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 11:39:14 +0200540_iso-8859-1 nebech, a rochmonus. sam, you are way off. you are throwing out facts and figures with no achiza b'm'tziut -- no leg to stand on. Stop the tit for tat, because you are standing on very shaky ground. please don't tell me any more that my values are not habonim values. I have fulfilled all the habonim values i learned, continue to fulfill them, and live them every day of my life HERE. Habonim values i can recall: 1, hagshama atzmit in Eretz Yisrael. 2, dugma ishit -- that has been my whole life and it weighed on me, but [...] 58177 189 7_Re: sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:44:40 +0200390_iso-8859-1 i am not in to playing tit for tat. I don't cover up for any of the corrupt officials. I agree that there are too many corrupt officials on all sides of the political fence. They had from whom to learn. Get a life Sam. shabbat shalom, pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:53 AM Subject: Re: sam [...] 58367 148 49_Re: Efraim replies to Pearl and pearl to Ephraim,13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:38:55 +0200632_iso-8859-1 Ephraim, shalom, Your arguments are rationally correct, but psychologically perhaps not. The people of the Gush really believed that there would be no disengagement. They felt that if they democratically fought the government's decision -- which they did -- then they could prevent it. They failed. Only one week before the disengagement, my son, who had moved to the Gush 7 weeks previously with all his family, told me unequivically that there would be no disengagement. The people there just could not believe it would happen. We never believed that Yamit and Pitchat Rafiach would be destroyed until it actually [...] 58516 1219 29_Martin Peretz - Gaza Dispatch16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:20:58 -0400656_ISO-8859-1 The New Republic Online GAZA DISPATCH Polis by Martin Peretz Post date: 08.25.05 Issue date: 09.05.05

Israel may be the last polis on earth. Not that its parliamentary debates or party conventions are exactly Athenian. But it is a small country in which almost everyone is alert to the high stakes of its politics, and many are historically knowledgeable and intellectually sophisticated about them. Politics here is, after all, a matter of life and death. Walking around the Gaza settlements last week, I was also struck by the consistent intimacy of the population, even across bitter ideological lines. Even [...] 59736 85 7_Re: sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 10:28:54 EDT560_US-ASCII Hey Pearl

Great things your doing.

Kol Ha Kavod.

I am really proud of all the things you do.

You live a life to emulate. Many of the Orthodox Jews I know say similar things. But I still don't share their values. For instance they support Bush. They don't understand what I am talking about when I say that there are 45 million Americans with no access to healthcare. But people who share my movement values get that right away. I wish I could explain what i was talking about better but its hard for me. I sing when I [...] 59822 203 49_Re: Efraim replies to Pearl and pearl to Ephraim,0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:48:42 -0700771_us-ascii Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Sharon











Pearl Skolnik Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 08/26/2005 01:38 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: Efraim replies to Pearl and pearl to Ephraim,



Ephraim, shalom, Your arguments are rationally correct, but psychologically perhaps not. The people of the Gush really believed that there would be no disengagement. They felt that if they democratically fought the government's decision -- which they did -- then they could prevent it. They failed. Only one week before the disengagement, my son, who had [...] 60026 50 7_Re: sam0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:55:24 -0700330_us-ascii Pearl wrote: > Get a life Sam.

This may have been another of Pearl's "tongue-in-cheek" comments (they are often so hard to identify until someone calls her on them), but I found it to be terribly insensitive. Sam has a life, thank god. And I, for one, am glad that he shares some of it with us in this forum. [...] 60077 267 41_Re: Meretz summary, the settlers and more11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 26 Aug 2005 18:30:16 -0700580_us-ascii Pearl,

I have just returned from Israel, where I arrived before and was there for most if not all of the Nituk. As I read your words here, I ask myself which TV stations you were watching, since what I saw differs considerably from what you are saying here. Did the station you watched show the mothers screaming in their children's ears about the process and which army they should serve in, adding to their already confused state and actually traumatizing them more than they could have been by what they were going through? Did you see the soldiers having [...] 60345 28 26_Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:49:26 +0200389_us-ascii Jessie wrote >I believe the original is actually 'baba' maiseh - the kind told at the >city gate. Anyone else familiar with this etymological quirk, or is it, >too a 'maiseh'? >Jessie Actually it should be read, Babba Metzia (Aramaic) the middle section of the order Nezzikin in the Misnah. Or in Yiddish My Grandmother is a Bargain. The other bargain at the gate is Sharon. [...] 60374 51 26_Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 08:33:09 -0400348_iso-8859-1 My memory on this is vague, but I thought there was some early Yiddish writer with a name like Bubba and phrase came from his name and stories. Judy

Original Message: ----------------- From: amnon hadary amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:49:26 +0200 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs [...] 60426 59 26_Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 12:38:07 +0000568_- Are you sure the phrase doesn't have anything to do with rednecks?



> My memory on this is vague, but I thought there was some early Yiddish > writer with a name like Bubba and phrase came from his name and stories. > Judy > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: amnon hadary amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL > Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:49:26 +0200 > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs > > > Jessie wrote > >I believe the original is actually 'baba' maiseh - the kind told at the > >city gate. Anyone else familiar with [...] 60486 107 26_Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:44:38 -0700548_iso-8859-1 They actually took it from us...:)

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> Are you sure the phrase doesn't have anything to do > with rednecks? > > > > My memory on this is vague, but I thought there > was some early Yiddish > > writer with a name like Bubba and phrase came from > his name and stories. > > Judy > > > > Original Message: > > ----------------- > > From: amnon hadary amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL > > Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:49:26 +0200 > > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > Subject: Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs > > [...] 60594 542 15_answer to batel13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:00:55 +0200606_iso-8859-1





Pearl,

I have just returned from Israel, where I arrived before and was there for most if not all of the Nituk. As I read your words here, I ask myself which TV stations you were watching, since what I saw differs considerably from what you are saying here. Did the station you watched show the mothers screaming in their children's ears about the process and which army they should serve in, adding to their already confused state and actually traumatizing them more than they could have been by what they were going through? Did you see the soldiers having [...] 61137 472 17_a soldier's story13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:19:56 +0200682_iso-8859-8-i













August 23, 2005





A Soldier's Story

By MICHAEL B. OREN August 23, 2005; Page A10

Together with thousands of Jews, I sat on the flagstones before the Western Wall in Jerusalem. The time was midnight on the ninth day of the Hebrew month of Av, the day on which, according to tradition, invaders twice overwhelmed the city's defenders, destroying their Temple and crushing Jewish independence in Israel. Two thousand years later, a new Jewish state with a powerful army has arisen, yet Jews continue to lament on that day, and rarely as fervidly as now. For the first time in [...] 61610 73 15_sam-- a closure13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:36:06 +0200553_windows-1255 Sam, shavua tov, you write about habonim values, but they are also Jewish values. Bush is a temporary phenomena, values are timeless and lasting. Caring, as you do, you can not tolerate the suffering of others and this is noble and honourable. You translate your pain in song, which is also enduring. Not everyone can do this, and you have been granted the talent to do so. That is your strength. Like the boy who did not know how to pray but whistled his prayer to God, you express your pain, sorrow, hopes in song. We are not so far [...] 61684 153 19_Re: sam-- a closure0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 18:15:19 EDT619_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/27/2005 4:36:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Sam, shavua tov, you write about habonim values, but they are also Jewish values. Bush is a temporary phenomena, values are timeless and lasting.



Pearl from your mouth to God's ears. Bush is a symptom is something going very wrong with our modern life. And of course Bush is not the only symptom. There is Jack Abramoff the Republican Jew who is now mixed up with Tom DeLay and that whole mess. It was headlines every day for a while. Fortunately for Israel, I don't think that most [...] 61838 40 43_Folk Music fans attention--John Herald Died0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 22:16:47 +0000550_- John Herald, one of the founders of the Greenbriar Boys, also an important player in the Greenwich Village 'folk scare' of the early sixties, died the past July. He was 65.

I saw him once, at the Philly Folk Festival in '76. I thought he was good.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 61879 104 19_Re: sam-- a closure12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 17:03:14 -0700589_iso-8859-1 It warmes my heart to see the "reaching out" by Pearl and Sam..Shavua tov l'chol am Yisrael...sue(sie)

--- Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 08/27/2005 4:36:43 P.M. Eastern > Standard Time, > pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes: > > Sam, shavua tov, > you write about habonim values, but they are also > Jewish values. > Bush is a temporary phenomena, values are timeless > and lasting. > > > Pearl from your mouth to God's ears. Bush is a > symptom is something going > very wrong with our modern life. And of course Bush > is not the only symptom. [...] 61984 415 22_amos oz - free at last13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:21:16 -0400610_iso-8859-1 In the overwrought festival for the poor settlers who lost their homes and their broken messianic dreams that is taking place in the country and on this list too lately, Amos Oz's voice should be heard once again. He is still one of the best thinkers and writers articulating the vision of the secular humanistic rational peace camp, to which the overwhelming majority on this list still belongs, I believe. Yes, we allow contrary opinions of a few rigth-wing religious extremists even here because one of our values is also an extremely tolerant and wide-ranging freedom of expression. But we [...] 62400 93 26_Re: amos oz - free at last0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:24:55 EDT473_US-ASCII In a message dated 08/27/2005 11:21:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET writes:

Yes, we allow contrary opinions of a few rigth-wing religious extremists even here because one of our values is also an extremely tolerant and wide-ranging freedom of expression. But we also have to know who belongs to our camp, and who is far out of it, on the "lunatic fringes," as I myself (and excuse my non-pc poetic liberty here) like to call them. [...] 62494 66 35_The Zionist Conspiracy is spreading8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 28 Aug 2005 19:56:40 +0200482_US-ASCII

Hope they don't check the toilet paper.

http://www.ocnus.net/artman/publish/article_19854.shtml

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 62561 45 26_Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:18:04 +0200635_ISO-8859-1 Actually, my bubbeh was some metzia. ----- Original Message ----- From: "amnon hadary" To: Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Rape and Bubbe Meisehs



> Jessie wrote >>I believe the original is actually 'baba' maiseh - the kind told at the >>city gate. Anyone else familiar with this etymological quirk, or is it, >>too a 'maiseh'? >>Jessie > Actually it should be read, Babba Metzia (Aramaic) the middle section > of the order Nezzikin in the Misnah. Or in Yiddish My Grandmother is a > Bargain. The other bargain at the gate is Sharon. > [...] 62607 25 37_Employment opportunity in the DC area11_Don Goelman25_don.goelman@VILLANOVA.EDU31_Mon, 29 Aug 2005 17:57:50 -0400581_ISO-8859-1 Haverot and -im,

If you're a boger(et) of Habonim now living (maybe studying) in the DC area and interested in working Monday through Thursday, approximately 9:00 AM - 1:00 PM, taking care of an incredibly wonderful toddler, please call 301-657-0233.

Toda!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 62633 26 26_To any chevre in the south12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 30 Aug 2005 07:28:47 -0700352_iso-8859-1 You probably do not have access to any email, but if you do, I am sure all of the chevre on this site are with you in this terrible time....Let us know if you need anything--Sue

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com [...] 62660 158 20_NYC Labor Day Parade16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:35:33 -0400488_us-ascii You are cordially invited to join the United Hebrew Trades / New York Jewish Labor Committee

for the





2005 New York City Labor Day Parade





WHEN

Saturday, September 10, 2005

Marching starts 11 a.m. [assemble by 10:45 a.m.]





WHERE

The United Hebrew Trades / New York JLC will assemble at East 44th Street, bet. Fifth Ave. & Vanderbilt Ave. -- just look for our banner and placards! [...] 62819 73 20_Human Interest Story0_16_BERNSARA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 30 Aug 2005 14:21:36 EDT338_US-ASCII We, of Detroit Ameinu and Habonim are sending you this story. We will be publishing it in our local newsletter and hopefully in the local press. We are requesting that donations be sent payable to Ameinu and specifying that it is for the ENAS fund, and mailed to AMEINU 25900 Greenfield, Suite 205-D Oak Park, MI 48237-1267 [...] 62893 24 24_Re: Human Interest Story12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 30 Aug 2005 15:38:16 -0400490_us-ascii > We, of Detroit Ameinu and Habonim are sending you this story.

This message arrived without the story. Could you re-send it with the story?

Todah rabbah,

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 62918 365 32_Fw: an essay by E.L. Doctorow !!12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:37:06 +0200619_ISO-8859-1 This one's for you, Sam.

An Essay on President Bush and Death --- by E.L. Doctorow Edgar Lawrence Doctorow occupies a central position in the history of American literature. He is generally considered to be among the most talented, ambitious, and admired novelists of the second half of the twentieth century. Doctorow has received the National Book Award, two National Book Critics Circle Awards, the PEN/Faulkner Award, the Edith Wharton Citation for Fiction, the William Dean Howell Medal of the American Academy of Arts and Letters, and the residentially conferred National Humanities Medal. [...] 63284 25 12_Re: Doctorow12_amnon hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 08:57:02 +0200552_us-ascii Jessica, You wrote >This one's for you, Sam < and appended it to An Essay on President Bush and Death --- by E.L. Doctorow As the consistent prophet-like voice on Habonet condemning Bush and his policies Sam deserves the accolade.

Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 63310 43 12_Re: Doctorow12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 08:15:52 +0200696_ISO-8859-1 Thank you, Amnon. That was exactly what I intended. Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: "amnon hadary" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Doctorow



> Jessica, > You wrote >This one's for you, Sam < and appended it to An Essay on > President Bush and Death --- by E.L. Doctorow > As the consistent prophet-like voice on Habonet condemning Bush and his > policies Sam deserves the accolade. > > Amnon > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew [...] 63354 100 32_Re: an essay by E.L. Doctorow !!0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:48:02 -0400607_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Jessica Bonn To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 00:37:06 +0200 Subject: Fw: an essay by E.L. Doctorow !!



This one's for you, Sam.

Wow. Jessica. I did not even realize you were dedicating this to me until after I read it. Oh my. Thank you. The things that were said in this article I was just trying to say myself yesterday to my sister. Of course I did not actually did not say it this well. Thank you very much for posting it. And I am deeply honored you would mention my name in that [...] 63455 1584 32_Keeping Labor Support for Israel16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:35:20 -0400616_ISO-8859-1





Print This Story

Penny Schwartz

"Support Peace, Reject Divestment," was the message delivered by union members of Boston´s Building Trades Union who held a banner in Somerville´s Davis Square in August 2005.

LABOR DAY FEATURE Jews in the labor movement fight the divestment from Israel campaign By Penny Schwartz BOSTON, Aug. 28 (JTA) -- Ties between American Jews and the U.S. labor movement have deep historical roots -- and a local Jewish labor leader is playing a key role in keeping them strong. [...] 65040 193 32_Re: an essay by E.L. Doctorow !!12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:37:36 +0200523_ISO-8859-1 Hi, Sam. You have brought Bush's policies into the discourse so many times (and so appropriately) - so I thought of you immediately. The pen is mighty in Doctorow's hand, but sadly, not mighty enough to stop the tide of our times. I think he's also one of our tribe, no? Another voice to balance out the lost Jews on the new Right... alas. Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 3:48 PM Subject: Re: an essay by E.L. Doctorow !! [...] 65234 27 8_Workshop20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:45:17 -0400358_US-ASCII In a half hour, we will take our younger son, Theo, to the airport to leave for Workshop 55. I was on Workshop 20, and my sisters were on the 12th and 14th. In his first week, he will spend 3 days on Kibbutz Afikim, the place in which my father lived and worked when he "escaped" to Palestine from an Orthodox home in the late 30's. Dor l'dor. [...] 65262 109 12_Re: Workshop0_14_Eser53@AOL.COM29_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:01:52 EDT344_US-ASCII

And I'll be leaving around 5:30 to take my younger son, Roey, to the airport for workshop 55. There are 63 kids going this year! kadima habonim (dror) !

I was on Workshop 21, as were the parents of several of Roey's hevreh.

(I was at Yotvata, the other kibbutzim that year were Gesher Haziv and RoshHaNikra) [...] 65372 105 32_Re: an essay by E.L. Doctorow !!12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:17:02 -0700445_iso-8859-1 E.L Doctorow wrote "Ragtime" and "The Book of Daniel," amongst others, and has won many literary awards- The "Book of Daniel" ( about the Rosenbergs) was being filmed in NY when I did an internship there- and I got to be an "extra" in a crowd scene-and got paid $50!...His parents were both musicians- and his father owned a music store, and his mother was a pianist...I think he was born in Brooklyn- so he must be Jewish!--sue [...] 65478 84 12_Re: Workshop12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 12:18:13 -0700543_iso-8859-1 Kol HaKavod, Shelly!...sue

--- Eser53@AOL.COM wrote:

> > And I'll be leaving around 5:30 to take my younger > son, Roey, to the airport > for workshop 55. There are 63 kids going this year! > kadima habonim (dror) ! > > I was on Workshop 21, as were the parents of several > of Roey's hevreh. > > (I was at Yotvata, the other kibbutzim that year > were Gesher Haziv and > RoshHaNikra) > > Sue Levin Nissan > > > In a message dated 8/31/2005 2:45:40 P.M. Eastern > Daylight Time, > cbma@VERIZON.NET writes: > > In [...] 65563 46 12_Re: Workshop19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 14:23:27 -0500596_us-ascii >shelly are you sure you want theo and other workshoppers to be fruitful this year?

lisa



From: Lon & Shelly Ephraim >Date: Wed Aug 31 13:45:17 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Workshop

>In a half hour, we will take our younger son, Theo, to the airport to >leave for Workshop 55. I was on Workshop 20, and my sisters were on >the 12th and 14th. In his first week, he will spend 3 days on Kibbutz >Afikim, the place in which my father lived and worked when he "escaped" >to Palestine from an Orthodox home in the late 30's. [...] 65610 147 12_Re: Workshop0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 15:29:40 -0400316_us-ascii While we are at, I am proud as well that my son Amit leaves tonight to join the workshop as well. While I am not a workshop grad, my wife Nancy was with Sue on Yotvata.

In addition, my daughter leaves tonight to participate in the new Habo U program and will spend the year at Haifa University. [...] 65758 77 12_Re: Workshop20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:03:15 -0400300_US-ASCII I guess I meant I was hoping we'd all have a productive year. I want Theo's year to be fruitful, but NOT, definitely NOT for him to multiply. (Now I'm going upstairs to look in the dictionary to see if I've totally misused the word "fruitful".)

Thanks for the good laugh, Shelly [...] 65836 135 70_[SPME] New revelations in AIPAC case raise questions about FBI motives11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Wed, 31 Aug 2005 20:07:47 -0500808_ISO-8859-1 ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: ScholarsforPeace@aol.com Reply-To: SPME@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 13:18:46 EDT

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

(javascript:printWindow()) _Print This Story_ (javascript:printWindow()) State Dept. David Satterfield, right, deputy chief of the U.S. mission at Baghdad. BEHIND THE HEADLINES New revelations in AIPAC case raise questions about FBI motives By Matthew E. Berger WASHINGTON, Aug. 18 (JTA) — New revelations in the case against two former American Israel Public Affairs Committee staffers raise questions about why FBI investigators have been focused on the pro-Israel lobby. The New York Times reported Thursday that David Satterfield, the No. 2 man at [...]