1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet July 2005 2 26 15_American aliya?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 10:13:50 -0400593_ISO-8859-1 The HaAretz article is woefully short of reportage on the survey's protocol methodology, other than naming the research organization, Harris. Anyone who believes this report is probably ingesting the same inebriates as those folk at the Jewish Agency. Any further play of this data will surely cause a significant falloff in UJA donations because donors know that this is good money after bad. BTW, I suspect that the Mike Rosenberg quoted at the end of the article as head of the Agency's immigration department is the same MR who was merakez of Baltimore Habonim in 1969-71. [...] 29 62 19_Re: American aliya?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 07:44:54 -0700283_iso-8859-1 Funny that we seem to be everywhere- Batya Dashefsky, from Philly is now retiring from the Agency but worked the last three years out here in LA as the head of the Aliyah Desk, and Michael Landsberrg- the director fo the office in NY is an old Labor Zionist guy..sue [...] 92 51 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Fri, 1 Jul 2005 12:43:10 EDT511_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/30/05 5:59:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:



> Where is the half that are not considering liposuction?

At a Weight Watchers meeting!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 144 185 31_Ugly, Neither Jewish Nor Humane12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 08:33:33 +0200529_us-ascii Not an isolated spectacle

By Uzi Benziman

The recent events in Gush Katif are a clear reflection of the settlers' grasp of Judaism: First you take over an abandoned Palestinian house, then set a mezuzah in it and declare it as Jewish property. Then you hold prayer sessions and Hasidic dancing in it. Later you provoke the Palestinian neighbors - an act that leads to stone throwing and ends with attempts by Jewish youths to stone to death an unconscious Palestinian teen. [...] 330 40 49_Silence of the lambs as Israel burns /Yoel Marcus11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:07:24 -0500493_us-ascii Silence of the lambs as Israel burns

By Yoel Marcus

The country is burning and the lambs are silent. That more or less sums up where Israel finds itself today as it ushers in July - the last lap before disengagement from Gaza. Why is the country burning? Because the extremists in the settler camp have declared war on it. Blocking roads, setting tires on fire, scattering spikes and Ninja nails, provoking the army and the police - all this is just the beginning. [...] 371 108 18_Holy Madness/ Ynet11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 07:30:31 -0500598_ISO-8859-1 Holy madness





Settlers get rich at the expense of the poor By Shulamit Aloni





It’s no secret the settlements were born in sin, outside the jurisdiction of the State of Israel, where the occupier has no right to establish colonies.



With the passage of time, the settlements built up strength and courage and collected capital and assets - illegally. Through lies and deceit, even before the courts, they said they were there for security needs, and that way robbed land from the local poor and enslaved them in their farms. [...] 480 75 35_Re: Ugly, Neither Jewish Nor Humane0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 10:55:10 EDT444_US-ASCII

In a message dated 07/03/2005 1:34:05 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Not an isolated spectacle





This is the most important thing that has been posted on Habonet this year. Thank you for posting it Amnon. There are all kinds of ways to access this information but it is good see it posted with your name before the subject line. I think I will go and read it again. [...] 556 279 7_havhara13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 00:34:04 +0200522_windows-1255 Points to ponder: 1. there was no one happier than the settlers when the army cleared out the people who came and set themselves up in the abandoned hotel in gush katif. They were bent on trouble. Many were 13, 14 and 15 year olds who took their ideology seriously. My young niece, one of them, carried on like a banchee when evacuated, as all of Israel saw on TV. Her mother told me she "hopes Nili (14) rots in jail, I will not free her." As it was, the army just wanted them out of there and let them [...] 836 253 11_Re: havhara11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 19:19:18 -0700578_us-ascii Pearl wrote: "(I did not see the news, only heard that he was treated brutally.)

In previous posts you have always stated that you are a news junky-reading every news paper and being on top of the latest news. Therefore, I have a very difficult time reading these words from you. Though I can't attest to the print version of Israeli newspapers, I read the online versions of all that are available-which is pretty much all of them, and each newspaper has dedicated at least one article a day to the attempted lynching of a Palestinian boy. The most recent [...] 1090 106 39_havhara and the psychology of the yesha0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 3 Jul 2005 22:22:47 EDT354_US-ASCII Well I have had an hour or two to ponder on Pearl's Havara. Earlier in the day Amnon and Rozzie posted little articles out of Haaretz to give us an idea what was going on. I went on and read the op eds in Haaretz to get a better sense. I then talked to some Israeli friends here and I was wondering how Pearl would process it. Now we know. [...] 1197 331 38_Good. As good as can be/ Daniel Gordis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 16:06:55 -0500361_ISO-8859-1 I landed at Ben Gurion airport about ten days ago, back from a quick trip to the States. Got my luggage, went through customs, and met Shlomo, my driver, at our usual spot. We've got this down to a routine. Same meeting spot, and same casual hellos. He took my bags, and I asked him how he was. "Tov, kamah she-efshar." Good, as good as can be. [...] 1529 318 30_Re: havhara -- answer to batel13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 23:16:33 +0200494_iso-8859-1 in answer 1. I do not watch TV and I have a pile of newspapers in the entrance to my home that I have only scanned the past few weeks (I am very busy at work, had a family wedding, have family from abroad here). I returned to jerusalem from my office at 11:45 p.m. The last thing I have time to do is read the newspapers like I usually do.... 2. I do not put a positive spin on what happened: I just wrote that he was not an innocent, the arab (not a youngster) came out of the [...] 1848 73 30_Re: havhara -- answer to batel0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 17:46:31 EDT425_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/04/2005 5:17:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

I am at present not in a position to pass judgement because I did not read or see what happened there and do not know all the facts.

Pear's role is not to pass judgement on anything that happens at Gaza. She specialized in passing judgement on those nasty Kibbutzim who stole land from the Arabs. [...] 1922 649 30_Re: havhara -- answer to batel11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:40:54 -0700436_US-ASCII Lynch was the term used by the Israeli media, and yes there was a mob involved and the attempt was classic in what the definition of lynching is. There is just now way around this.



-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Pearl Skolnik Sent: Monday, July 04, 2005 2:17 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: havhara -- answer to batel [...] 2572 192 35_Re: Ugly, Neither Jewish Nor Humane0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 07:47:03 -0700550_us-ascii Hear, hear. I am a little surprised that 3 days have gone by since Amnon posted this, and the only comment on it was from Sam (a comment with which I agree, no one will be surprised to read). I believe in doing things at the approriate time. My experience has shown that trying to do things either before you are ready or after the situation is ripe leads to unnecessary difficulties. This is as true of the impulse to re-settle once Jewish-held land as it is for toilet training or teaching a child to read. Creating a Jewish presence [...] 2765 267 33_shababnikim and the disengagement13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 13:54:42 -0400575_us-ascii I am just back from Israel and I want to comment of what is going on regarding protests.

Last Monday, I was caught for a long time on the road during an anti-disengagement protest that supposedly was not designed to stop traffic. At 6 PM, thousands of cars with orange ribbons were supposed to pull off the road and their occupants were supposed to simply get out of the cars but not block traffic. It was supposed to be a show of strength--and it was. Thousands and thousands participated. Children came with their parents and as someone who brought my [...] 3033 146 37_Re: shababnikim and the disengagement0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:37:57 -0400607_us-ascii An article in the JTA today discusses the topic Judy reflects upon. I have pulled out a quote from the article about the growing support for the disengagement and a link to the whole article immediately below.

Ken --------

Avi Bettelheim, deputy editor of the rival Ma?ariv newspaper, was more sanguine. He argues that the mayhem of the past few weeks has done much to discredit the settler cause, and says he now believes the withdrawal will go through more smoothly. ?The TV pictures of blocked roads convinced me that everything will be okay, if only because the settlers are [...] 3180 118 28_Re: havhara -- answer to sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 21:29:32 +0200541_iso-8859-1 sam, I beg to differ with you. You say the kibbutzim stole land from the Arabs. I don't believe a kibbutz would do such a thing, but perhaps you know something I do not know. At any rate, there are kibbutzim and moshavim that are sitting on land once occupied by Arabs, but the land was allocated by the Minhal, not stolen by the kibbutz settlers. I lived for a number of years in a moshav ovdim which occupied a former Arab village --many of the Arab houses are still standing. In fact, Ami Ayalon lives there too. But, the [...] 3299 669 33_Re: havhara -- answer to batel #213_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 21:42:30 +0200598_iso-8859-1 today's newspaper had an article about people involved in the "lynching." One guy said he was alive by a miracle: the "lynched" Arab attacked him from behind and threw a building block at his head, which narrowly missed him. It seems there was a barrage of stones on the jewish kids. They fought back. There were pictures showing a cameraman telling the "lynched" Arab to lie down to show how seriously injured he was, yet the Arab was seen walking and laughing after the attack, according to the article. Seriously injured arabs are normally brought to Israeli hospitals, but this [...] 3969 128 13_land disputes13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 16:11:01 -0400590_us-ascii Dear Pearl, Would you agree that in at least some cases kibbutzim were settled on lands purchased by the Jewish Agency from absentee landlords and that as a result the tenant farmers who had occupied the land were thus dispossessed? Also, would you agree that sometimes the "encouragement" to leave was in the form of threats and perhaps even violence? The War of Independence was, after all war, and war is unfortunately about violence, death and ugliness. Alas, the reality cannot all live up to the romantic picture we would like to envision as the noble and pure birth of [...] 4098 318 28_Re: havhara -- answer to sam12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:13:04 +0200578_iso-8859-1 For goodness sake, both Sam and Pearl, the entire country 'stole' land from the Arabs. What does it really mean? There's no one Jewish party to blame - left and right, we all did it. We constructed a Jewish collective memory in which the physical landscape of pre-48 Palestine / EY and its memory were erased, and tried to smooth over the gap by stretching the elastic band from the biblical period right up to the present, with archeology in the service of this narrative. Stated otherwise, none of us can be overly righteous - left and right [and Palestinians [...] 4417 187 31_judy, an answer, not THE answer13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:08:15 +0200317_iso-8859-1 shalom, it is a chinese custom to bury eggs in the garden, i guess to enhance the taste after lying there for some time. I just thought it disgusting. couldn't touch it. had nothing to do with kashrut. she was a nurse in the hospital, where her husband sought refuge and worked after escaping hitler. [...] 4605 145 19_Sins of our fathers12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:47:36 -0700558_iso-8859-1 I suppose I must be one of the last "Zionists" around who believes that basically, to paraphrase Anne Frank, "I still believe that all men are good."- Look, to argue about right and wrongs of the War in 1948 gets nowhere. Whatever was done, was done...for us, it was a matter of survival; our people were almost obliterated in Europe, and thousands had nowhere to go. Daniel Gordis said it best, when he stated in his posting that his kids should feel that they have a home somewhere on this planet- a home where they can grow and fell safe. [...] 4751 172 35_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:04:06 -0400319_us-ascii Pearl wrote:

> Jews were forced to flee Arab countries and lost multi-billions in > property. Do you think they will ever be compensated? ....No one has > answered my question of why a Jew cannot live near Arabs after peace > reigns? Why are arab areas to be judenrein? Does this not upset anyone? [...] 4924 78 11_the "fence"0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 08:03:39 -0700565_us-ascii This list has been on the quiet side lately. Maybe I can stir the pot a bit.

Sue wrote: Perhaps the fence is a better idea than we would like to admit

From what I can discern, the ostensible purpose of the "fence" is to separate the Jewish and Arab populations. I have felt for many years that the only way to stop the cycle of violence is to reliably separate these populations. So I agree with the stated purpose of the "fence." I also agree with those who have recommended an international policing force to ensure separation. I know [...] 5003 225 26_Re: the "fence": to Sharon13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:22:54 +0200517_iso-8859-1 a fence is a fence and a wall is a wall. perhaps if you lived where i do you wouldn't sneer so much about the "fence." MOST OF THE SEPARATION FENCE IS A FENCE. Only in certain areas is there a wall: where the topography or the type of problem we have in a particular area demands a WALL. There are places next to Jerusalem where there is a fence and I do not understand why, since a terrorist can literally walk up to the fence, send a rock over it, shoot through it, throw a molotov cocktail as they [...] 5229 297 38_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer #213_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 22:08:30 +0200598_iso-8859-1 Judy, 1) it's the other way around: the Jews owned billions of dollars in properties in the Arab countries. The Arab fellahin owned mud huts and leased land or were migrant workers/bedouin. The Arabs owe far more to Israel than we do to the Arab states. I know there were wealthy Arabs who owned homes and land tracks in Israel. R'chush Natush (abandoned property) was supposed to hold monies aside to pay for these properties that were taken over by the Israel Lands Authority. People were compensated who agreed to compensation. Even today, requests come in from Arabs abroad who [...] 5527 111 35_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:45:26 -0400513_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:04:06 -0400 Subject: Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer



Pearl wrote:

Jews were forced to flee Arab countries and lost multi-billions in property. Do you think they will ever be compensated? ....No one has answered my question of why a Jew cannot live near Arabs after peace reigns? Why are arab areas to be judenrein? Does this not upset anyone [...] 5639 51 9_The truth0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 17:07:39 -0400605_us-ascii Pearl wrote



. As for subsidies: who doesn't get subsidies in Israel, who really do not deserve it? Kibbutzim and moshavim were not subsidized? Almost every town and village in Israel is subsidized by the government.



Pearl you are telling a lie. No one is subsidized like the settlements. Gush Katif cost Israel much more than it ever paid b back. The subisidies to kibbuztim were tiny if none existant compared to what we give to the settlers. The settlers are sucking the country and the Jewish people dry by the hatavot they get. I am appalled that you would [...] 5691 110 28_Re: havhara -- answer to sam0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 6 Jul 2005 17:37:37 -0400561_us-ascii



-- answer to sam



sam, I beg to differ with you. You say the kibbutzim stole land from the Arabs. ----- Original Message ----- Answer to Pearl'

Not me Pearl. It was you who seemed to be saying that the Kibbutzim stole land from the Arabs and the settlers did everything on the up and up. That is how I read your comments on Adama N'tusha. I get a sense that were attacking the kibbutzim. I got that sense again when you said the Kibbutztim were subsidized, I will leave the issue of land alone for the moment. [...] 5802 496 35_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:03:26 -0400577_US-ASCII That is a silly question; of course, in theory, we should oppose the very concept of a judenrein area, though classic Zionism certainly did not put too much of a point on fighting to prolong the diaspora. The problem is that no Jew in their right mind will want to live under Palestinian sovereignty, at this point in history. And Israel will not be able to protect them in areas from which ti withdraws. So what exactly are you proposing? The point of raising the judenrein issue is to raise another argument against withdrawal. On its own merits, the judenrein [...] 6299 156 35_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 09:15:10 -0700718_us-ascii Can you say "red herring"?

Sharon









David Twersky Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/07/2005 09:03 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer



That is a silly question; of course, in theory, we should oppose the very concept of a judenrein area, though classic Zionism certainly did not put too much of a point on fighting to prolong the diaspora. The problem is that no Jew in their right mind will want to live under Palestinian sovereignty, at this point in history. And Israel [...] 6456 594 35_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:20:45 -0400598_US-ASCII I have eaten red herring, I knew red herring, and this is no red herring.





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 12:15 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer







Can you say "red herring"?

Sharon











David Twersky Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 7051 243 35_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 09:30:22 -0700457_us-ascii Do you think throwing out an inflamatory word like "judenrein" is anything other than a way to derail discussion of the substantive issues? It is akin to labeling criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism, IMHO.

Sharon









David Twersky Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/07/2005 09:20 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 7295 36 12_A new member14_Melissa Tapper26_melissa.tapper@UTORONTO.CA30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 13:34:46 -0400401_US-ASCII Hello all,

I am new to the list serve and wanted to introduce myself.

Originally from Vancouver, I am now living in Toronto working as an urban planner.

I was part of Workshop 42 and went to machaneh Miriam for as long as I can remember.

Joining this list serve is my attempt to engage in dialogue about Jewish issues and connect with other like-minded folk. [...] 7332 83 20_THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 11:27:26 -0700627_iso-8859-1 Is it just me, or is anyone else "out there " enraged about the current world "weltaunschaung."???..The images on the news this morning were replicas of Jerusalem; Africa is a complete mess; the environment is going down the tubes; America is becoming a "big-brother" right-wing Christian "state"; millions of children are starving while so much food goes to waste; corruption is rampant; the UN is useless; they are throwing journalists and Martha Stuart in jail while sex-offenders are let loose to commit more crimes and kill; while I support eh disengagement- look at what it is doing internally to Israle, [...] 7416 389 35_Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 20:51:46 +0200457_iso-8859-1 a rose by any other name is still a rose. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 6:30 PM Subject: Re: judy, an answer, not THE answer





Do you think throwing out an inflamatory word like "judenrein" is anything other than a way to derail discussion of the substantive issues? It is akin to labeling criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism, IMHO. [...] 7806 125 24_Re: THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:56:44 -0400396_iso-8859-1 Sue, Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

More than half a century ago, Sheldon Harnick (who later wrote lyrics for Fiddler on the Roof) wrote the Merry Minuet. First made public by Orson Bean in a 1953 revue, and recorded by the Kingston Trio on their first album "From the Hungry I" in 1959. Tom Lehrer introduced the Trio to the song at a concert in San Francisco. [...] 7932 181 24_Re: THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:32:44 -0700468_iso-8859-1 THANKS, David, for putting all into perspective--I LOVE Tom Lehrer- had all of his 33s!---and the Kingston Trio's too--But my question is this- don't you think it is time for a little change from "la meme chose"??? Or is this one of those impossible " human condition" things- so violence, inequities, intolerance, greed, can never be conquereed?....Ah....I guess I will just thow up my hands and retreat....( or at least, go see a movie)... :)....sue [...] 8114 279 28_Re: havhara -- answer to sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:37:08 +0200567_iso-8859-1 figures, sam, figures. you throw around numbers without proof. The government is not throwing around billions and billions of dollars on settlements now, and you constantly harp on that issue. The army now has to replace the settlements with bases in some instances, so the argument that some of these settlements are needed for security is correct, it seems. I was in Chomesh a few weeks ago -- a settlement in the Shomron -- and I could not believe my eyes: first of all, the place is full of spy antennas put up by the army, which are protected by [...] 8394 53 24_Re: THIS SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:08:17 EDT469_US-ASCII Thanks for the memories, David!



"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 8448 127 13_Re: The truth13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:26:51 +0200560_iso-8859-1 sam, your disgusting attack is just too much even for me. it is true that the kibbutzim were forgiven billions in debts and bad investments (the bank share scandal). I did not make it up. anyone living here knows about it. But, again, so what? Everyone in Israel is subsidized somewhere along the way. I am not against the kibbutzim getting their subsidies. I am not against the kibbutzim. I love the kibbutzim so why present me as attacking them? i am just mentioning a fact of life here. that is not an attack. What do the settlers get? They [...] 8576 139 28_Re: havhara -- answer to sam0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:38:55 -0400412_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:37:08 +0200 Subject: Re: havhara -- answer to sam



figures, sam, figures. you throw around numbers without proof. The government is not throwing around billions and billions of dollars on settlements now, and you constantly harp on that issue. [...] 8716 101 13_Re: The truth0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:41:14 -0400474_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:26:51 +0200 Subject: Re: The truth



sam, your disgusting attack is just too much even for me. it is true that the kibbutzim were forgiven billions in debts and bad investments (the bank share scandal).



The banks were bailed out and the kibbutzim went into receivership. I watched it happen. [...] 8818 183 40_Re: havhara -- answer to sam #3, 4, 5???13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:37:32 +0200436_iso-8859-1 The government did not bail out the Kibbutzim. The government did not bail out the kibbutzim. Please don't make stuff up.

well, someone did, sam, and it wasn't me. it was the government. but, again, so what? I am glad the kibbutzim got a reprieve. Why not?

. This bailing out, which has been done before in almost every sector, including the moribund Histadrut, is a fact of life in Israel, not an attack. [...] 9002 106 13_Re: The truth0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:20:28 +0000388_- Would you like to know what the difference is between subsidies to the kibbutzim and to the settlements? The settlements are on land that will be given back to Arabs and the kibbutzim are on land that won't be given back to the Arabs. Therefore, the susidies given to the settlements were completely wasted and the the subsidies given to the kibbutim were not (completely) wasted. [...] 9109 76 16_Re: A new member11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 15:55:15 -0700459_iso-8859-1 Melissa welcome. Perhaps one day we will supply a form to be able to round out the concept of who we are, so that it will be easy to find like-mindedness.

I myself live in the San Fernando Valley of Southern California, and like travelling, motorcycling (I am currently riding my 25th motorcycle, with a million and a half miles of riding), archery including crossbows, and collecting Netsukes (little Japanese Ivory and wood carvings. [...] 9186 32 16_Re: A new member12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:26:05 -0400280_us-ascii Just to echo Steve, welcome Melissa. (This is probably the last time you will ever see me and Steve agree about anything. LOL.)

I grew up in the New York area, attended Na'aleh during the 70s, and was active in the t'nua in NYC in the late 70s and early 80s. [...] 9219 196 40_Re: havhara -- answer to sam #3, 4, 5???0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:07:26 EDT666_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/07/2005 5:38:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:



Sam: there is no growing "storm of resentment..." People, including myself, are very much against blocking the roads, the anti-disengagement people realized this and stopped.



Well that seems like a good sign.

I don't carry any burden, what burden? anyway: ahavat yisrael refers to the Jewish people, not to the country. I did not attack any kibbutz and you can not show anywhere that i did. i have no reason to attack the kibbutzim. Stating a well-known fact does not make for an attack, especially since it wasn't [...] 9416 250 77_Fw: MEF Alert: Pipes discusses London terrorism on MSNBC, noon-12:20 p.m. EDT11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:47:30 -0700481_iso-8859-1

Shabbat Shalom

The link down below, ("British Islamists.....")- interesting article on concept of "Covenant". A minor point that is not discussed in the article is the fact that Muslims now inhabit almost every country in great numbers, ensuring the lack of Covenant for any country or area. It's a problem.

Steve

PS I think the scheduling indicated means the interview will be at 9 AM on the West Coast, unless the program gets taped. [...] 9667 255 23_Fw: Rivka goes shopping11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:42:15 -0700354_iso-8859-1

No offense intended. However, this is not for those that have no sense of humor at all.

Steve





Rivka goes to the new shopping centre in Brooklyn. It's unique because it's only for Jewish women looking for Jewish husbands. Potential husbands are the only goods on display. This is why Rivkah is there. [...] 9923 135 15_Fw: Angry Rabbi11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:39:43 -0700458_Windows-1252

Offensive but wry.

Steve



Subject: Angry Rabbi



A Jewish congregation in suburban Boston honors its Rabbi for 25 years of service by sending him to Hawaii for a week, all expenses paid.

When he walks into his hotel room, he finds a beautiful nude woman lying on the bed. She greets the Rabbi with, "Hi, Rabbi, I'm a little something extra that the President of the Temple arranged for you. [...] 10059 557 8_Fw: Luck11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:43:18 -0700548_iso-8859-1

Too good to be a true story???

Steve





IT IS AN OLD ONE, BUT..... IF YOU NEVER HEARD THIS STORY BEFORE, YOU SHOULD READ IT NOW. REALLY A GREAT ONE !!!





Note: forwarded message attached.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 10617 114 53_Fw: IMPORTANT-this URGENT MESSAGE should interest you11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:51:46 -0700602_iso-8859-8-i äåãòä Guys

Please let me know your reactions to this presentation (yes, even the "group").

Thank you

Steve





Subject: Fw: IMPORTANT-this URGENT MESSAGE should interest you



Please view this urgent and vitally important Power Point message!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 10732 70 31_The Man Who Captured Gaza/JPost11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 21:15:24 -0500595_ISO-8859-1 Editor's notes: The man who captured Gaza



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Horovitz, THE JERUSALEM POST Jul. 7, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When we arrive at the Palmach Museum, stressed because traffic on the Ayalon has made us late, a distinguished gentleman with ramrod posture is waiting to meet us. "My name is Gavish," he tells me, setting little bells ringing. "Go through the exhibit with your family, and we'll talk afterwards." [...] 10803 142 51_Fw: MEF Alert: Pipes pulls out of MSNBC at noon EDT11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:58:07 -0700551_iso-8859-1 Sorry to have had it cancelled.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: MEF Alerts To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 8:19 AM Subject: MEF Alert: Pipes pulls out of MSNBC at noon EDT



Middle East Forum Alert





The topic of MSNBC's Connected Coast to Coast, on Friday, July 8, at noon EDT, was changed to the Arab reaction to the London bombings. MSNBC suggested a debating partner whom Daniel Pipes found objectionable, so he withdrew from the program. [...] 10946 366 8_Re: Luck0_15_debalev@AOL.COM30_Fri, 8 Jul 2005 23:41:54 -0400500_us-ascii

Absolutely NOT TRUE. Before sending this stuff on, again I say you really should check snopes.

Details at http://www.snopes.com/glurge/fleming.htm



Oh yeah, Steve........that URGENT post said nothing at all. Remember, (I'm fairly certain) this list does not allow attachments or forwards.



-----Original Message----- From: Steve Klein To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:43:18 -0700 Subject: Fw: Luck [...] 11313 40 28_Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 13:12:32 +0000501_- Are there folks in the Baltimore/Washington area interested in a Kumzitz of some sort where we can sing all the old songs, new songs, good songs and even bad ones and eat and drink...?

Any interest?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 11354 137 83_British Antiwar MP George Galloway: "London Has Reaped Blair's Involvement in Iraq"11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 08:24:41 -0600688_iso-8859-1 From Democracy Now Friday, July 8th, 2005 http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/08/1346205

JUAN GONZALEZ: George Galloway, the respected Member of the Parliament, your reaction. You’re recorded in some American newspapers here as saying that England had reaped the results of its involvement in the war in Iraq.

GEORGE GALLOWAY: Well, London has reaped the involvement of Mr. Blair's involvement in Iraq would be more accurate, because, of course, the vast majority of Londoners, and I have no doubt, the vast majority of the people affected by that despicable act of mass murder yesterday were opponents of Mr. Blair and Bush's war on Iraq. This [...] 11492 128 45_Response to Galloway - from today's Telegraph8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 17:57:17 +0200477_us-ascii Britons will never give in to terrorists By Anthony King (Filed: 09/07/2005)

The perpetrators of Thursday's atrocities are living in a fantasy world if they think the British people can be intimidated by terrorism, let alone converted to Islam.

The findings of YouGov's survey show they are equally deluded if they think they can drive a wedge either between Britain and the United States or between most Britons and their Muslim fellow countrymen. [...] 11621 48 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 07:58:27 -0700655_iso-8859-1 I am interested!- ( but I live in LA)- sue (mosh, GH, 11th workshop)

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> Are there folks in the Baltimore/Washington area > interested in a Kumzitz of some sort where we can > sing all the old songs, new songs, good songs and > even bad ones and eat and drink...? > > Any interest? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To [...] 11670 136 49_Re: Response to Galloway - from today's Telegraph0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 15:07:07 +0000581_- Interesting that the article contradicts itself. On the one hand it says that Britons want to continuing living their lives unchanged and on the other says that support for a national ID card has increased and now there is a desire to arrest people who haven't committed a crime.



> Britons will never give in to terrorists > By Anthony King > (Filed: 09/07/2005) > > The perpetrators of Thursday's atrocities are living in a fantasy world if > they think the British people can be intimidated by terrorism, let alone > converted to Islam. > > The findings of [...] 11807 114 18_Get out of Baghdad11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 09:06:33 -0600596_us-ascii http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2005/07/08/london/print.html

Get out of Baghdad The London bombings should spur Bush and Blair to pull out of Iraq and renew the fight against our real enemies.

- - - - - - - - - - - - By Joe Conason

July 8, 2005 | Responding appropriately to the atrocities in London means mourning the dead and caring for the wounded, declaring defiance to terrorism, and proclaiming support for every effort to find and punish the perpetrators. On those matters we should all be able to agree and unite, just as we did on Sept. 11, 2001. [...] 11922 134 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@GTE.NET30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 11:16:36 -0400480_iso-8859-1 I'm always game - won't play, might sing, will definitely be enthusiastic and eat! Esther



----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:12 AM Subject: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz



Are there folks in the Baltimore/Washington area interested in a Kumzitz of some sort where we can sing all the old songs, new songs, good songs and even bad ones and eat and drink...? [...] 12057 48 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz0_15_Moshava@AOL.COM28_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 11:17:16 EDT508_US-ASCII i'm game. i can host if you want a crazy dog but lisa flier marsh has a great back yard for a kumsitz.........

Tammy Schmidt, Registrar Habonim Dror Camp Moshava www.camphabonimdrormoshava.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12106 30 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:44:02 -0500690_ISO646-US yup, richard. i love to kumsitz. even can offer a venue if no one else does.

lisa flyer marsh



>From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET >Date: Sat Jul 09 08:12:32 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz

>Are there folks in the Baltimore/Washington area interested in a Kumzitz of some sort where we can sing all the old songs, new songs, good songs and even bad ones and eat and drink...??Any interest? >The HABONET mailing list is hosted byShamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College,which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. >To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 12137 71 49_Re: Response to Galloway - from today's Telegraph13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:17:28 -0400558_us-ascii Survey responses in the days immediately after a major event tend to over exaggerate the long term changes in attitudes. Judy

Jon Baum wrote:

>Britons will never give in to terrorists >By Anthony King >(Filed: 09/07/2005) > > >



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12209 125 49_Re: Response to Galloway - from today's Telegraph8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 20:04:30 +0200455_us-ascii Don't bet on it. The Brits have backbone. Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:17 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Response to Galloway - from today's Telegraph



Survey responses in the days immediately after a major event tend to over exaggerate the long term changes in attitudes. Judy [...] 12335 150 22_Re: Get out of Baghdad11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:25:43 -0700525_iso-8859-1 Phil

By now, you won't take it personally if some of us don't agree to the base, tone, assumptions or ideas of the article. All of the "We were promised...." stuff is simply not true. Someone promised us it would be cheap and easy? Who? When? Where? Do you yourself remembering anything of the sort? Can you bring it back up with some kind of meat? The person that wrote the article is from a world I do not know. Is he asking us to get out of Iraq so as not to piss off the extremists further, and so [...] 12486 200 49_Re: Response to Galloway - from today's Telegraph11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:32:13 -0700346_iso-8859-1 Richard

I'd like to get your opinion. What if the person in question stands in the pulpit of a mosque every week and preaches "Death to the West, death to America (very popular today) and death to the Jews (ALWAYS popular)". Is it time for an argument about free speech or a good one for deportation? What is your opinion? [...] 12687 142 36_Fw: INCREDIBLE DANCE PERFORMANCE !!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:50:05 -0700299_iso-8859-1



Guys

This piece has little to do with Jewish issues, or Israel, but it seemed so different from the negativity pervading our lives these days, I am offering it to the people I care about. It is a rare gift. I am sending thanks to the person who sent it to me. [...] 12830 619 22_Fw: The Muslim Problem11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 10:55:48 -0700654_iso-8859-1 I hope most of us can agree with everything in this article. I apologise that it is coming from me, and therefore suspect.

Steve



Subject: The Muslim Problem



finally: the view that terrorism won't be controlled until Muslims themselves take matters in hand. Well articulated, though perhaps easier said than done!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 13450 712 8_Re: Luck11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 11:02:49 -0700423_iso-8859-1 Deb

Thanks for the reminder! I went to the Snopes link and was treated to the real story of Fleming's connection to the invention and development of penicillin (sp), which turned out to be equally interesting as the hoax.

Much indebted

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: debalev@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Luck [...] 14163 79 30_Fw: Phone Scam on "Frum" Woman11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 11:10:59 -0700591_iso-8859-1

Without a doubt, one of the funniest pieces I've ever heard.

Steve







Z100 Phone Scam on Jewish Bubby -- Hilarious, especially of you understand Hebrew & Yiddish!http://downloads.eonstreams.com/ccri/whtz_fm/012%3DStole%20Towels%20From%20AC.mp3

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 14243 63 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:51:53 -0700618_iso-8859-1 When are you thinking about--and would we alte kakers be invited?--sue

--- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote:

> yup, richard. i love to kumsitz. even can offer a > venue if no one else does. > > lisa flyer marsh > > > >From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET > >Date: Sat Jul 09 08:12:32 CDT 2005 > >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >Subject: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz > > >Are there folks in the Baltimore/Washington area > interested in a Kumzitz of some sort where we can > sing all the old songs, new songs, good songs and > even bad ones and eat and drink...??Any interest? > >The [...] 14307 79 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 15:01:27 -0500681_us-ascii of course you can come! stay here if you'd like. esp in your case, the "alter" in alter kakers is key.

lisa

>From: Sue Liberman >Date: Sat Jul 09 14:51:53 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz

>When are you thinking about--and would we alte kakers >be invited?--sue > >--- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote: > >> yup, richard. i love to kumsitz. even can offer a >> venue if no one else does. >> >> lisa flyer marsh >> >> >> >From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET >> >Date: Sat Jul 09 08:12:32 CDT 2005 >> >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >> >Subject: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz >> [...] 14387 117 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 13:08:24 -0700618_iso-8859-1 would you like th eemials of some of the older chevre- the cohens, krasner. marion, etc...? I am not sure they are on habonet...and when are you thinking of doing this--I may come in- thinking of going to the east coast anyway...sue

--- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote:

> of course you can come! stay here if you'd like. esp > in your case, the "alter" in alter kakers is key. > > lisa > > >From: Sue Liberman > >Date: Sat Jul 09 14:51:53 CDT 2005 > >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >Subject: Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz > > >When are you thinking [...] 14505 157 17_Answer to Conason8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 07:44:31 +0200611_us-ascii Face up to the truth

We all know who was to blame for Thursday's murders... and it wasn't Bush and Blair

Nick Cohen Sunday July 10, 2005 The Observer

The instinctive response of a significant portion of the rich world's intelligentsia to the murder of innocents on 11 September was anything but robust. A few, such as Karlheinz Stockhausen, were delighted. The destruction of the World Trade Centre was 'the greatest work of art imaginable for the whole cosmos,' declared the composer whose tin ear failed to catch the screams. Others saw it as a blow for justice rather than [...] 14663 133 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 9 Jul 2005 23:50:25 -0500379_us-ascii not sure when. judy now says she wants to combine it with a book party or something of that sort for amnon. when we get some details, i think it would be great to get lotsa people--many generations.

lisa

>From: Sue Liberman >Date: Sat Jul 09 15:08:24 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz [...] 14797 99 14_Face the truth0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 10:11:33 EDT561_US-ASCII Face up to the truth

We all know who was to blame for Thursday's murders... and it wasn't Bush and Blair

I cerntainly agree with that. Now it is time for Jon to face the truth. Tony Blair and the rest of the G-8 are seriously convinced that Global Warming is a real and present danger. That was one of the results of that conference. Almost all scientist agree with him. Since Jon sent me a copy of President Bush's "Clear Skies" legislation several weeks ago, I have been reading and working to see if there is any possibility that [...] 14897 174 18_Re: Face the truth8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:06:26 +0200412_us-ascii It's Ok Sam. No hard feelings.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:12 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Face the truth





Face up to the truth

We all know who was to blame for Thursday's murders... and it wasn't Bush and Blair [...] 15072 168 18_Re: Face the truth17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:38:19 +0200528_us-ascii



Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/45 - Release Date: 09/07/2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 15241 103 18_Re: Face the truth0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:43:09 EDT611_US-ASCII

In a message dated 07/10/2005 11:34:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL writes:

I admit to knowing nothing about Global Warming and hence will not venture an opinion.



If you nothing about Global Warming or the context of my discussions with Jon why would you comment? One month ago, Jon defended his positions on Global Warming by sending me a series of things he clipped of the internet. I have spent the month reading and researching to see if there is anything at all to his position. I have concluded that not only is Jon in error, but that we are [...] 15345 121 18_Re: Face the truth11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:48:41 -0400351_iso-8859-1 Hi Heidi,

I thought bulldookey was a great term at the time, and I still do. Lots of strong opinions here, expressed strongly at times. Viva la difference I say.

Noam Stopak ----- Original Message ----- From: Sheldon and Heidi To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:38 PM Subject: Re: Face the truth [...] 15467 204 18_Re: Face the truth0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:57:23 +0000682_- Anyone who complained to you about the word, "bulldookey," is so full of crap that I have a difficult time believing you took them seriously.



> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.11/45 - Release Date: 09/07/2005 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...] 15672 148 18_Re: Face the truth0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:59:33 +0000487_- Sam wrote: "I was hoping for a better answer than "No hard feelings.""

Hope spring eternal.







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 15821 405 23_Re: Sins of our fathers11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:00:44 -0400299_iso-8859-1 Sorry, poor connectivity means I'm playing catch up.

I'm confused Sue - you say you still believe that all men are good, but the rest of your note seems to indicate that it is only Jews who are good or at least Arabs(and perhaps much of "the world") are bad. Can you clarify? [...] 16227 75 60_Humanitarian Request for a Member of the Habonim Dror Family0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:38:42 -0400325_us-ascii Dear Friends:

I am writing with a request for humanitarian assistance for one of our family. Many of you personally know Yona Prital, the central Shlicha of Habonim Dror North America. Others certainly are aware of the wonderful work she has done for the movement during her first two years of shlichut. [...] 16303 88 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:58:09 -0400430_iso-8859-1 Dear Sue, Everyone here is an alte kaker. You were at Mosh as a madricha when I was a chanicha. That makes us the same generation. Love, Judy

Original Message: ----------------- From: Sue Liberman fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 12:51:53 -0700 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz



When are you thinking about--and would we alte kakers be invited?--sue [...] 16392 167 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:11:48 -0400525_iso-8859-1 I think a combination book party/kumsitz is the way to go. THe book is really interesting and Amnon is, after all, the madrich of our madrichim. As soon as I get home, I will set a date with Haim for the book party. Judy PS I am now in Tel Aviv. There is hardly an orange ribbon in sight. (We got very lost in rush hour traffic and so had lots of opportunities to count. THe rate of orange ribbons here is betwwen 3-6%. We saw about the same percentage of blue and white ribbons as orange and the occassional [...] 16560 24 23_Re: Sins of our fathers16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:17:18 -0400601_iso-8859-1 I missed parents' day at mosh but heard from my kid that the official mosh shirt this year is ORANGE, of all colors. WHat is up with that????? Judy

-------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ .

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 16585 54 13_The Tulsa Zoo0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:18:57 +0000377_- I remember after the last election, the Republicans were accusing those of us who voted against George II of being snobs who thought the red states where full of ignorant bigots. After reading the following article from today's NY Times I think they may be right. (Have to include the article and not a link cause you have to be a member to get articles at their site.) [...] 16640 39 18_Re: Face the truth12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:04:56 -0700463_iso-8859-1 --- Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> Face up to the truth

> I agree with you about the bombings in London, but > your far out views on > climate change make it hard for me to take you > seriously on anything. > > Sam > Sam- it is this kind of statement which gives the impression that you are "glib"--How can you possibkly "dismiss" a human being because of one point of view....and claim to be open and willing to learn from others---Sue [...] 16680 201 18_Re: Face the truth12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:25:26 +0200551_iso-8859-1 I love the term (I knew I could count on you, Noam). It has that down-to-earth quality that forces out the 'thou' in the other because it is such an authentic I. And whether intentionally or not, it has that effect of pulling us away from the super dangerous curve of taking ourselves too seriously. It's a gem that I first heard in Ken Nesher in the late 70s; perhaps it even originated with Heidi, one of the greatest madrichot in our Habonim history, you can be sure. For any of you who haven't seen her lately, she's looking great [...] 16882 80 18_Re: Face the truth0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:33:24 EDT344_US-ASCII

In a message dated 07/10/2005 3:05:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

> Sam- it is this kind of statement which gives the impression that you are "glib"--How can you possibkly "dismiss" a human being because of one point of view....and claim to be open and willing to learn from others---Sue [...] 16963 208 18_Re: Face the truth12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:55:47 +0200611_iso-8859-1 I'm in. This global warming stuff is really alarming. We so arrogantly continue to s--t all over the world (self included) and there seems to be very little mainstream serious discourse about it, and even fewer significant changes in outlook and habit. If the world were a human patient, said Zalman Schechter in a recent talk given in Jerusalem, it'd have been in the ECU long ago, with poisoned blood (waters) and emphesymia (air pollution). It's always shocking to read US 19th century alarmists about the disappearing wilderness, and compare where we are today. Friday night I was unable to [...] 17172 98 18_Re: Face the truth0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:07:54 EDT368_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/10/2005 4:56:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET writes:

I'm in. This global warming stuff is really alarming. We so arrogantly continue to s--t all over the world (self included) and there seems to be very little mainstream serious discourse about it, and even fewer significant changes in outlook and habit. [...] 17271 27 18_Re: Face the truth13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:30:17 -0400507_ISO-8859-1 Sam, I love you and you know that I am BLUE through and through and that I agree with you 99.5% of the time on US politics-- esp on what a horrible administration this is for the US and the world-- but Israel, disengagement and related topics like global terrorism give us enough to argue about without a creating litmus test on the environment too. Jon's the one who lives in the Negev. If he can't tell that the world is getting warmer, I doubt anyone on Habonet is going to convince him! [...] 17299 130 37_Re: Face the truth and the Tulsa Zoo.0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:43:18 EDT572_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/10/2005 6:29:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:

Jon's the one who lives in the Negev. If he can't tell that the world is getting warmer, I doubt anyone on Habonet is going to convince him!

( Sasa is in the Galil)

Jon said that he voted for Bush because he was worried about Israel. Now it turns out that he supports Bush's most wild environmental policies. I am not out to convince Jon about anything. I am about to take a measure of what he is saying. Sometimes when he talks about the Iraq war [...] 17430 110 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz14_Allan Pristoop17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:16:50 -0400444_iso-8859-1 Singing, eating, and drinking seem like a natural combination to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:12 AM Subject: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz



Are there folks in the Baltimore/Washington area interested in a Kumzitz of some sort where we can sing all the old songs, new songs, good songs and even bad ones and eat and drink...? [...] 17541 96 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 00:25:44 +0000568_- I would not bar anyone from coming but I don't know what an alte kaker is. Evryone is invited, just no old shits please.

-------------- Original message --------------

> When are you thinking about--and would we alte kakers > be invited?--sue > > --- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote: > > > yup, richard. i love to kumsitz. even can offer a > > venue if no one else does. > > > > lisa flyer marsh > > > > > > >From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET > > >Date: Sat Jul 09 08:12:32 CDT 2005 > > >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > > >Subject: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz [...] 17638 122 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:18:15 -0700524_iso-8859-1 Well- I guess that leaves ME out!.. :)...sue

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> I would not bar anyone from coming but I don't know > what an alte kaker is. Evryone is invited, just no > old shits please. > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > When are you thinking about--and would we alte > kakers > > be invited?--sue > > > > --- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote: > > > > > yup, richard. i love to kumsitz. even can offer > a > > > venue if no one else does. > > > > > > lisa [...] 17761 122 32_Re: Baltimore/Washington Kumzitz12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:18:57 -0700536_iso-8859-1 When are you tinking of doing this??? Maybe I'll crash!...--sue

--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> I would not bar anyone from coming but I don't know > what an alte kaker is. Evryone is invited, just no > old shits please. > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > When are you thinking about--and would we alte > kakers > > be invited?--sue > > > > --- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote: > > > > > yup, richard. i love to kumsitz. even can offer > a > > > venue if no one else does. > > > > > [...] 17884 47 18_Re: Face the truth8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 06:21:33 +0200648_US-ASCII Actually Judy, I live on the Lebanese border. Kibbutz Sasa.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:30 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Face the truth



Sam, I love you and you know that I am BLUE through and through and that I agree with you 99.5% of the time on US politics-- esp on what a horrible administration this is for the US and the world-- but Israel, disengagement and related topics like global terrorism give us enough to argue about without a creating litmus test [...] 17932 64 18_Re: Face the truth13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:36:23 -0400632_ISO-8859-1 Well, that explains everything ;) Judy

Jon Baum wrote:

>Actually Judy, I live on the Lebanese border. Kibbutz Sasa. > >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On >Behalf Of Judith Gelman >Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:30 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Face the truth > > >Sam, I love you and you know that I am BLUE through and through and that >I agree with you 99.5% of the time on US politics-- esp on what a >horrible administration this is for the US and the world-- but Israel, >disengagement and related topics like [...] 17997 86 18_Re: Face the truth8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:30:14 +0200708_us-ascii Yeah, maybe not "everything" but part of it. Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 7:36 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Face the truth



Well, that explains everything ;) Judy

Jon Baum wrote:

>Actually Judy, I live on the Lebanese border. Kibbutz Sasa. > >Jon > >-----Original Message----- >From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] >On Behalf Of Judith Gelman >Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:30 AM >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Face the truth > > >Sam, I love you and you know that I am BLUE [...] 18084 126 17_Timeline web site8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:04:39 +0200585_us-ascii My long-suffering editor at Netsurfer's Digest assigned this timeline web site to me for review. I thought I would share it with you guys as there are probably some folks who like this sort of thing.:

Those of us who's memories weren't completely blasted by the '60s will recall the timelines that used to hang in our junior high school history classrooms. Remember? We clustered around them on test days before the teacher showed up like bison at a water hole in order to cram in those last little facts. In that far-off pre-scrolling era, they tended to be long [...] 18211 20 28_Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:45:36 -0400500_ISO-8859-1 Let's hold it at Mosh. We could be the Saturday night m'durah. If the tsevet & chanichim are good, we might even let them attend! Where are Captain Mitzvah & Laizer Beam when you need them?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 18232 30 32_Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 17:59:19 +0000269_- From what I know about how Mosh runs today I highly doubt we would be allowed to do it there and that would actually be rather far to travel for our Washington chevra anyway. Judy has suggested doing it in combination with a book party at her place in the fall. [...] 18263 52 32_Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 13:26:26 -0500620_us-ascii it wouldn't be practical to have it at mosh. also, some of us have talked about inviting some more mosh alums, and we need time to do that.

richard, details on the hootenany?

lisa

>From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET >Date: Mon Jul 11 12:59:19 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz

>From what I know about how Mosh runs today I highly doubt we would be allowed to do it there and that would actually be rather far to travel for our Washington chevra anyway. Judy has suggested doing it in combination with a book party at her place in the fall. [...] 18316 514 57_Fw: The Same Old, Same Old . . . - by Victor Davis Hanson11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 14:57:08 -0700445_iso-8859-1

Since this article makes so much sense to me, I am actually addressing it to the "group" to help me understand where the logic falls apart.

Thanks

Steve



Subject: The Same Old, Same Old . . . - by Victor Davis Hanson





author





July 08, 2005 The Same Old, Same Old . . . An anatomy of the London bombing. by Victor Davis Hanson National Review Online [...] 18831 257 85_Fw: Counting Terror Attacks By Muslims Around the World BUT Excluding Israel - Action11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:25:30 -0700380_iso-8859-1 Counting Terror Attacks By Muslims Around the World BUT Excluding Israel - Action As a note: The article in question states that Israel is purposely excluded, though it is a bizarre decision, to be sure. Saving of ink? Newsprint? Typing effort?

Steve



Subject: Counting Terror Attacks By Muslims Around the World BUT Excluding Israel - Action [...] 19089 31 33_Re: BugMeNot (Was: The Tulsa Zoo)12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:27:40 -0400315_us-ascii Richard wrote: >After reading the following article from today's NY Times I think >they may be right. (Have to include the article and not a link >cause you have to be a member to get articles at their site.)

Just as an FYI for those (like me) who don't like to register to read news articles. [...] 19121 71 15_Re: Same Old...0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 00:37:12 +0000539_- First of all I am not sure what Hanson's point is in this article. Is it that Bush and Blair are doing a bang-up job fighting terrorism that we can expect to be attacked over and over again?

Now to deal with the many weak points in his argument.

1. He insists that is it a complete mystery as to why folks in the Mideast might blame the West for their, "self-inflicted miseries." Since this area of the world was taken over by the Allies after World War I, carved up and then delivered into the hands of the dictators [...] 19193 439 29_[QUAR]Re: Sins of our fathers11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 15:06:19 -0700519_iso-8859-1 Noam

Thank you for the Garreau article. It is for things like this I really appreciate your contributions!

Steve

PS Not taking any of the positive in the above, I missed the part of Sue's letter in which you state that she says Arabs are bad. Could you highlight it?

Thanks again

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 9:00 AM Subject: Re: Sins of our fathers [...] 19633 693 24_TNR - Anglicans & Israel16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 23:09:45 -0400647_ISO-8859-1 The New Republic Online ANGLICANS AND ISRAEL. Bad English by Martin Peretz Post date: 06.30.05 Issue date: 07.11.05

About 40 years ago, when I was a young graduate student at Harvard, I drove the aging and very distinguished suffragan bishop of Massachusetts, W. Appleton Lawrence, from Cambridge to some "peace meeting" in the western part of the state. All of our meetings were peace meetings, not least the ones in camouflaged support of some aspect of Soviet foreign policy. Those were also the days when people on the left would do somersaults to persuade clergy--any ecclesiastic, really, to say [...] 20327 94 32_Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 23:31:17 -0400356_US-ASCII Mosh is not a good idea, since I asked my kids about kumsitzim and they looked at me like I was the alte kaker I am. I don't think they do them like we used to. Habonudniks has given way to Haboheads and kumsitzim have become I don't know what. They have no idea what partner dances are either. But I digress in the direction of Then v. Now. [...] 20422 269 15_Re: Same Old...11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 11 Jul 2005 22:46:45 -0700603_iso-8859-1 Richard

Thank you for your response. I guess we will have to continue to agree to disagree. Our differences of definition are too great to be able to see exactly eye to eye. The example most glaring is your definition of "torture", ala Abu Graib. Admittedly,our troops did not act in good judgement when they undressed prisoners and humiliated them; even tormented them somewhat. If you find that humiliation and torment fit the definition of torture the way cutting off ears and tongues and heads does, then I agree with you. We really tortured them. If scaring prisoners is the [...] 20692 19 15_Re: Same Old...0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 09:25:12 +0000518_- I don't know why I am surprised that you would pick one point out of my seven to ridicule my response which you had asked for in the first place. Neither should I be surprised that you argue against my point by claiming I said things which I didn't say. No where in my posting do I state, or suggest, "we are no better than the enemy." Needless to say I also never said humiliating and tormenting prisoners is as bad as other forms of torture (for example those used by our allies in the War on Terror). But it [...] 20712 112 32_Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:09:42 -0500371_us-ascii maybe i am jumping the gun a bit, but is there a shiron out there--maybe one that other eizors have used? maybe it's time to produce a new one? a 70th anniversary shiron?



lisa



>From: Lon & Shelly Ephraim >Date: Mon Jul 11 22:31:17 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz [...] 20825 122 32_Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:19:30 +0000543_- I would be more than happy to put one together and I am soliciting people to provide song titles.



> maybe i am jumping the gun a bit, but is there a shiron out there--maybe one > that other eizors have used? maybe it's time to produce a new one? a 70th > anniversary shiron? > > > lisa > > > >From: Lon & Shelly Ephraim > >Date: Mon Jul 11 22:31:17 CDT 2005 > >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >Subject: Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz > > >Mosh is not a good idea, since I asked my kids about kumsitzim and [...] 20948 117 32_Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:23:51 -0400601_iso-8859-1 I am happy to use my house. We need someone or more than one to lead the kumsitz part. Judy

Original Message: ----------------- From: Lon & Shelly Ephraim cbma@VERIZON.NET Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 23:31:17 -0400 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz



Mosh is not a good idea, since I asked my kids about kumsitzim and they looked at me like I was the alte kaker I am. I don't think they do them like we used to. Habonudniks has given way to Haboheads and kumsitzim have become I don't know what. They have no idea what partner dances are [...] 21066 155 32_Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:28:37 -0400638_iso-8859-1 I don't about using a shiron that doesn't smell like mimeo fluid.... Judy

Original Message: ----------------- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 12:19:30 +0000 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Washington-Baltimore Kumsitz



I would be more than happy to put one together and I am soliciting people to provide song titles.



> maybe i am jumping the gun a bit, but is there a shiron out there--maybe one > that other eizors have used? maybe it's time to produce a new one? a 70th > anniversary shiron? > > > lisa > > > >From: Lon & Shelly Ephraim > [...] 21222 50 6_shiron20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:20:23 -0700378_iso-8859-1 Lisa and others--

A couple of years ago, Rachel Bernhardt made a copy of my shiron, which was a combination of the Mosh KM Bet shiron of 1969, and a reprinted/revised version done in about '74. Check with her.

Naomi Goldberg Honor



--------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour [...] 21273 18 31_Palestinian Workman's Comp Case16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 10:42:37 -0400434_us-ascii http://english.people.com.cn/200507/12/eng20050712_195484.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 21292 41 35_Re: Palestinian Workman's Comp Case13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 13:11:13 -0400523_US-ASCII Re "The Palestinian police and security apparatus found Sunday night 25 kg of explosives near the settlement of Doggett in the northern Gaza Strip, the ministry said in a statement."

I thought Doggett was an FBI agent in the X Files; or a Chinese dish...



-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 10:43 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Palestinian Workman's Comp Case [...] 21334 64 35_Re: Palestinian Workman's Comp Case0_25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 14:02:06 -0400609_us-ascii Actually they left off the last "e" but it's a dog that dances in a chorus line.

--brian

----- Original Message ----- From: David Twersky Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 1:11 pm Subject: Re: Palestinian Workman's Comp Case

> Re "The Palestinian police and security apparatus found Sunday > night 25 > kg of explosives near the settlement of Doggett in the northern Gaza > Strip, the ministry said in a statement." > > I thought Doggett was an FBI agent in the X Files; or a Chinese > dish... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni [...] 21399 71 7_Sharing12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:42:16 -0700578_iso-8859-1 Hi- I was suffering last night from AKNSS (Alte-Kaker -No- Sleep -Syndrome) and was awake at about 4 AM- listening to Don Imus in the Morning on MSNBC- when Thom Friedman called in on the phone ( or they called him-don't know)- He was amazing- and stated the fact that this terrorism will never go away unless it is attacked from within the Musilm/Islamic movement itself. So- not matter what Bush,or other world leaders (sic) say, this is going to have to happen. Interestingly enough- I have seen articles praising Abdullah of Jordan- who will be in LA in the [...] 21471 43 15_kumzitz reunion13_Deborah Meyer18_dsmeyer6@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:06:05 -0700615_iso-8859-1 Please do make the kumzitz a Mosh reunion. I'd like to come, and maybe I can round up some others who don't even lurk on Habonet.

Deborah (Meyer)

__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 21515 386 75_Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:27:01 -0700666_iso-8859-1 Latest, but probably not last, of reactions to the bombings in London.

Steve





Subject: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]



The reporter is a British Citizen and Palestinian sympathizer....dan

ONE WONDERS ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS THIS STORY CARRIES FOR AMERICAN COMMUNITIES WITH LARGE MUSLIM POPULATIONS??!!!!

Tonight's Channel 4 News programme has just ended, and much of today's goings on have now been revealed. It would appear that, although the police haven't yet confirmed all of the following, the morning newspapers will read something like this: [...] 21902 66 15_Re: Same Old...11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 12 Jul 2005 22:56:54 -0700374_iso-8859-1 Richard

You've raised some good points. I still think we do not need to jump to the aid of enemies or detractors so quickly, based on FBI reports that "suggest" we were rougher than first reported. Suggestions and inuendos are still just suggestions and inuendos. Once the hard evidence is in, I will be as quick as the next guy to issue a Mea Culpa. [...] 21969 87 19_Re: kumzitz reunion0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:18:27 +0000459_- Do you realize that we left for Grofit 30 fucking years ago!!!









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 22057 125 19_Re: kumzitz reunion0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:24:24 +0000574_- Sorry bout that, thought that was going to Ms Meyers only who is known to get turned on by that kind of language.



> Do you realize that we left for Grofit 30 fucking years ago!!! > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 22183 518 62_Fw: CAMERA Alert: Contact Senate Appropriations Committee Now!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:38:42 -0700516_iso-8859-1

Guys Subject: CAMERA Alert: Contact Senate Appropriations Committee Now!



This is Urgent as action has to be taken by tomorrow. Check the list of senators below and contact those who represent your state. Let's bring a lot and immediate action to this issue. Do it now! Steve

-----Original Message----- From: Eric Rozenman (CAMERA) [mailto:LeeGreen@camera.org] Sent: 13 July 2005 02:55 To: Jack De Lowe Subject: CAMERA Alert: Contact Senate Appropriations Committee Now! [...] 22702 182 8_Canucks?14_Melissa Tapper26_melissa.tapper@UTORONTO.CA31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:45:23 -0400621_US-ASCII Hello all,

I am new to this list serve and I am curious how many Canadian alumni are amongst us?

Can all the Degrassi loving Canucks please stand up.

Thanks, Melissa in Toronto



Quoting Steve Klein :

> > Guys > Subject: CAMERA Alert: Contact Senate Appropriations Committee Now! > > > This is Urgent as action has to be taken by tomorrow. Check the list of > senators below and contact those who represent your state. > Let's bring a lot and immediate action to this issue. Do it now! > Steve > > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric [...] 22885 94 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:56:26 -0700615_us-ascii Steve forwarded Tonight those who think about these things are coming to terms with the notion that we are living in a new reality in the UK. A reality entirely different from the, entirely devoid of hope, world of the Palestinian refugee camps that spawned this new style of terror, that is being used as such an effective weapon against coalition troops and Iraqi civilians in Baghdad. One where apparently well educated, probably middle class, British Muslims with everything to live for, who may even have been born here, and whose immediate family are unaware of their intentions, are apparently [...] 22980 41 11_LA kumsitz?0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:00:23 -0700340_us-ascii Here's something entirely different from my last post. All this talk of a Baltimore kumsitz makes me want to have one out here on the Left Coast. I sort of doubt we'd be able to offer Amnon and his book like they can in Baltimore, but maybe people would come anyway. Any LA/San Diego chevre out there who would be interested? [...] 23022 60 14_See Jane shlep8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:50:02 +0200420_us-ascii

http://www.vidlit.com/yidlit/yidlit.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 23083 59 46_orange ribbons at Mosh + Thomas Friedman op ed11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:17:50 +0000400_- Hi,

Judy was asking about the orange t-shirts the kids wore on visitor's day at Mosh. I was taken aback at first, and actually missed part of the explanation, but it had something to do with "taking back" the color orange, just as we need to "take back" Israel (and the world) from extremists of all stripes. Don't let them ijack colors and don't let them hijack the agenda for action. [...] 23143 55 15_Re: LA kumsitz?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 09:48:43 -0700558_iso-8859-1 Sharon- we have tried this a few times- and opnly about 4 people show up---There just aren't enough people around this side of the world--sue

--- Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote:

> Here's something entirely different from my last > post. All this talk of a > Baltimore kumsitz makes me want to have one out here > on the Left Coast. I > sort of doubt we'd be able to offer Amnon and his > book like they can in > Baltimore, but maybe people would come anyway. Any > LA/San Diego chevre > out there who would be interested? > > [...] 23199 56 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 12:53:28 EDT567_US-ASCII I'm wondering about Sue's comment that there aren't enough people on this side of the country. We are many, very many. Maybe it takes a little more push here because we are so spread out. If you are interested in all generations then I'd be interested. Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 23256 53 15_Re: LA kumsitz?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:09:06 -0700556_iso-8859-1 I have been to three "kumsitzim" that were advertised here- a couple when ALiyah was here- 5 or six people showed up- we had a great time- but it seemed a little "sad" to me....Coming from Baltimore- I am used to big crowds...sue

--- Emabear@AOL.COM wrote:

> I'm wondering about Sue's comment that there aren't > enough people on this > side of the country. We are many, very many. Maybe > it takes a little more > push here because we are so spread out. If you are > interested in all > generations then I'd be interested. > [...] 23310 32 51_To ALL Baltimore chevre ( again) re: Glasner family12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:11:52 -0700417_iso-8859-1 I never got any response to my request about the Glasner family- Does anyone know anything about them? We are really trying to locate someone who might know about Judy and where she is, or Ruthie- We have checked all over the internet- and I even paid for a search- but found nothing. I can't believe the entire family has just disappeared--PLEASE help or let us know it you now anything- THANKS -Sue [...] 23343 88 26_Re: LA kumsitz?-CORRECTION12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:14:41 -0700306_iso-8859-1 Actually- I did go to one kumsitz probably 7 or 8 years ago at the JCC in Northridge that had about 50 or 60 chevre- it was a "medurah" and was pretty good--But that was the last one I can remember that had more than 7 or 8 people..Sue

--- Sue Liberman wrote: [...] 23432 121 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 10:27:41 -0700607_iso-8859-1 Sharon- I don't think this fundamentalist terrorist reaction has anything to do with a reaction to materialism. I beleive it is rooted in anit-Semitism, and an uncanny ability to stir up some kind of adolescent rah-rah-ism toward "causes" in which people on the verge of some crisis are swayed to this crazy action. This can not, nor should it, be put on some kind of philosophical "pedestal"- It is just crazy, insane action with no reagrd ot humanity. The contest bewteen "materialsm" and "the simple life" needs to remain an intellectual battle, and not shoved into this arena, IMHO--Sue [...] 23554 128 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:56:16 +0000548_- I don't think it has more than a tangental relationship to antisemitism, and I don't think it is so much materialism, but something related. In addition to the standard dichotomy (those who divide things into two groups and those who don't :-) one can view the world as containing people who have a stake in the "system" as it works today and those who don't, or those who benefit from the status quo and those who don't, or perhaps those with hope and those without hope. Seems to me the later group is growing and has no stake in "playing [...] 23683 223 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:20:01 -0700579_iso-8859-1 Noam- The suicide bombers have their own kind of "hope"- we are told that they beleive in their rewards in the "afterlife" up there ( or down there somewhere ) with Mohammed and the virgins...Their "welstanschaung" is not devoid of hope, but devoid of respect for human life on earth...They have ideals- I don't think it is about nihilsm, but rather about s strong propoganda-fed idealism...and that the "Jews" are in charge of this world ( we control the banks ( not so true) and we control the media ( also not so true)..etc etc...Don't fool yourself- it has a [...] 23907 178 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:43:51 +0200589_us-ascii Noam, I think it is a mistake to regard Islamicist suicide bombers as people without hope. They hope for jihad. They hope for victory. They hope for the ultimate triumph of Islam over the unbelievers. In the end, they hope for paradise and all of its perks. It has probably been said here before but the relationship between terrorism and poverty is very tenuous. These guys who blew themselves up in London (or the 9.11 hijackers for that matter) were not poor; certainly not in Middle Eastern terms. The "desperation" that causes suicide terrorism is born of the fact that [...] 24086 35 48_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:49:27 +0000420_- Maybe not. Perhaps it is my own bias - that I don't believe in an afterlife - that leads me to focus on the here and now and working to create "heaven on earth" (or a reasonable facimile :-).

Still don't think it is anti-semitism since the jihadis hate the US which is as our "leaders" consistently remind us "a christian country" (Amen brother. Glory hallelujah!) as much as they hate "the little satan". [...] 24122 85 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:52:56 -0700580_us-ascii Sue wrote: The suicide bombers have their own kind of "hope"- we are told that they beleive in their rewards in the "afterlife" up there ( or down there somewhere ) with Mohammed and the virgins...Their "welstanschaung" is not devoid of hope, but devoid of respect for human life on earth...They have ideals- I don't think it is about nihilsm, but rather about s strong propoganda-fed idealism...and that the "Jews" are in charge of this world ( we control the banks ( not so true) and we control the media ( also not so true)..etc etc...Don't fool yourself- it has [...] 24208 93 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 11:58:27 -0700351_us-ascii Ellen- How about you just come over to my house and the two of us will go through our old shironim? But seriously, I'm not interested in something that excludes anybody. I have heard about one or two events in the LA area, but they were all up in the Valley somewhere. I'm in Costa Mesa. Maybe something further south might work better. [...] 24302 204 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:16:21 +0200421_us-ascii Sharon, maybe you should be. True, we're all the same, biologically speaking, but you seem incurious as to why a seemingly normal middle-class boy or girl would want to blow themselves to pieces in order to kill as many other people as they can. It is those "different influences" that separate one culture from another. Human civilization is based on them. How lucky you are that you can feel unconcerned. [...] 24507 26 15_Re: LA kumsitz?19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:33:11 -0500513_us-ascii >



>the two of us will go through our old shironim? ?



so you confess to having old shironim? kupa! if you send them to me, i'll copy and promise to send them back.

lisa

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 24534 42 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:28:10 -0400288_utf-8 I just wanted to add my two cents to the discussion of an L.A. Kumsitz. I know for a fact that there are a great many alumni in the Southern California area, many of them attended Gilboa, a lot of them are transplants from other area particularly the South Africans in Irvine. [...] 24577 162 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:45:59 -0700481_us-ascii Jon- You miss my point entirely. I asked: what makes someone who is fundamentally like me reject a belief in things getting better here on earth and embrace a belief in martyrdom and afterlife rewards? I start from the premise that the suicide bomber is like me, rather than from the premise that Sue and others hold, which is that the suicide bombers are just different from "us." If you read my post and believe I am unconcerned, then I am not making myself clear. [...] 24740 98 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:47:24 -0700458_us-ascii Ah, but you were seeking Mosh shironim. Mine would be Gilboa and Tel Ari.

Sharon







"lfmarsh@verizon.net" 07/13/2005 12:33 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: LA kumsitz?



>



>the two of us will go through our old shironim? ? [...] 24839 139 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:57:04 -0400547_us-ascii The MB Shiron was a good (and thick) one, if memory serves me well.

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 13:47:24 -0700 Subject: Re: LA kumsitz?





Ah, but you were seeking Mosh shironim. Mine would be Gilboa and Tel Ari.

Sharon



"lfmarsh@verizon.net" 07/13/2005 12:33 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 24979 48 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:16:48 EDT457_US-ASCII And if/when I move and "really" clean out my garage I think I have one from Kinneret!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 25028 176 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:28:22 -0700401_us-ascii Ken- I'd like to think you're talking about the shiron from MB '73, the one that Thaler and I put together. I get a kick out of seeing how we mangled the lyrics to so many songs :-) -Sharon









kbob24@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/13/2005 01:57 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 25205 83 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:29:03 -0700444_us-ascii Yowzer, now THAT's something I'd like to see!

Sharon







Emabear@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/13/2005 02:16 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)



And if/when I move and "really" clean out my garage I think I have one from Kinneret! [...] 25289 36 6_Shiron0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:42:11 +0000261_- While all of you are reminiscing about shironim of the past, it is quite possible, with the use of the Internet to compile one of the present that could put those to shame which is why I asked for song titles and I will compile one. Send me your titles. [...] 25326 68 50_Re: orange ribbons at Mosh + Thomas Friedman op ed0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:42:22 -0400621_us-ascii

Thank you for posting this Tom Friedman Op Ed. Tom puts the whole thing in perspective. His comments about the "lynching." really make the whole thing much clearer Sam +++

July 13, 2005 The Revolt of Israel's Center By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Gush Katif, the Israeli settlement bloc in the heart of the Gaza Strip, is an unusual place - a bizarre combination of "Fiddler on the Roof" and Club Med, barbed wire and dune buggies, surfers and settlers, all surrounded by over one million Palestinians. In the last year, though, the resurgent Israeli center, the most important political force [...] 25395 314 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:41:56 +0200691_us-ascii Ok, so what's your answer? Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:46 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]





Jon- You miss my point entirely. I asked: what makes someone who is fundamentally like me reject a belief in things getting better here on earth and embrace a belief in martyrdom and afterlife rewards? I start from the premise that the suicide bomber is like me, rather than from the premise that Sue and others hold, which [...] 25710 65 30_The Logic of Suicide Terrorism8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 00:47:51 +0200485_us-ascii

Good article on suicide terrorism from The Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200306/hoffman

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 25776 195 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 17:49:15 -0400420_us-ascii Sharon - That is EXACTLY the one I am thinking of.

I also like Richard's idea of a galactic shiron built over the Internet. I would encourage people with shironim (or song titles they like) to work with him - would be fun.

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 14:28:22 -0700 Subject: Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim) [...] 25972 231 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:00:56 -0700418_us-ascii I must have missed this galactic shiron idea. We could use it at the "medurah at the end of the universe."

Richard - please contact me off-list about this.

Ken-glad you like the shiron.

-Sharon







kbob24@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/13/2005 02:49 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 26204 48 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:11:49 EDT455_US-ASCII Maybe accessing Ron Orenstein's online music library might give a head start. Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 26253 157 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:23:29 -0700524_iso-8859-1 I start > from the premise that the suicide bomber is like me, > rather than from the > premise that Sue and others hold, which is that the > suicide bombers are > just different from "us." If you read my post and > believe I am > unconcerned, then I am not making myself clear. > I don't get it Sharon- Look- Of course- Suicide Bombers are human beings- with noses, ears, mouths, blood, etc....What do you mean by "like me"???-- If you are saying that you are like a suicide bomber, I am a little scared of [...] 26411 77 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Sim...13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 18:43:55 EDT361_US-ASCII I don't know whether there are "fundamental" differences among human beings or not -- I don't imagine we humans get actually to know for sure--, but there are pretty clearly fundamental differences in belief systems people seem to embrace. (Isn't it philologically interesting that Al Qaida, the name they themselves choose, means "foundation?"). [...] 26489 83 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Sim...12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 15:54:49 -0700436_iso-8859-1 Kol HaKavod Steve!- I remember one lecture in Hebrew College- from one of the teachers who taught History- who said that very thing and wrote on the "luach" the word "sex"- then went on to say that whereas in Christianity one could get in trouble by what one thought, in Judaism, it didn't matter what you thought- but what you did!... ( It wasn't Dr. Ivry or Mr. Tchock- who else was there? Having senior moments)--Sue [...] 26573 186 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:40:49 -0700 26760 28 34_Re: The Logic of Suicide Terrorism11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:37:02 -0700 26789 83 21_Happy Birth Day Woody0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 01:27:10 +0000329_- I nearly forgot, today is the 93 anniversary of Woody Guthrie's birthday.

THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND words and music by Woody Guthrie

Chorus: This land is your land, this land is my land From California, to the New York Island From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters This land was made for you and me [...] 26873 192 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:30:52 -0400 27066 293 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:04:04 -0400459_us-ascii Hey Batel, please don't make me choose between the three MBs when I served as Rosh in the 70s. That's like saying which child I like best :-).

I am traveling on business this week but when I get home I'll check out whixh shironim I have in storage.

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: Batel Libes To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 16:40:49 -0700 Subject: Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim) [...] 27360 116 26_Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim)19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:09:40 -0500374_ISO646-US hmm, "galactic shiron for the medurah at the end of the universe." sounds like a great title for this shiron, and certainly inspires ideas for cover art.

richard, go for it! let me know if i can help.

lisa

>From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV >Date: Wed Jul 13 17:00:56 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: LA kumsitz? (shironim) [...] 27477 98 75_Re: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Sim...20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 23:04:58 -0400550_US-ASCII Drs. Kaplan? Aberbach? Baumgartner? Rabbi Bloom?

On Jul 13, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Sue Liberman wrote:

> Kol HaKavod Steve!- I remember one lecture in Hebrew > College- from one of the teachers who taught History- > who said that very thing and wrote on the "luach" the > word "sex"- then went on to say that whereas in > Christianity one could get in trouble by what one > thought, in Judaism, it didn't matter what you > thought- but what you did!... ( It wasn't Dr. Ivry or > Mr. Tchock- who else was there? Having senior > [...] 27576 574 44_advertising Na'aleh by subliminal suggestion12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 05:55:56 +0200598_iso-8859-1 Last night, as part of the Jerusalem summer film festival, I saw an Israeli documentary about the Yiddish Theater of the 3rd millenium that put on "Green Fields." (There were some real characters featured - I enjoyed it; not as nostalgic as I had hoped, but very sweet). Of the people interviewed, there was a couple (maybe in their 70s or 80s) who helped raise money for the theater, and they guy - maybe his last name was Devokir??something, was pictured sitting on his couch and wearing a Na'aleh t-shirt!!! Is the camp committee paying for this 'product placement' advertising? [...] 28151 143 32_Baltimore Hebrew College Riddle-12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:09:23 -0700534_iso-8859-1 It wasn't Dr. Fein- and it started with a "V"...I just csan't remember his name- he was tall and big- like Barry!--susie --- Lon & Shelly Ephraim wrote:

> Drs. Kaplan? Aberbach? Baumgartner? Rabbi Bloom? > > On Jul 13, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Sue Liberman wrote: > > > Kol HaKavod Steve!- I remember one lecture in > Hebrew > > College- from one of the teachers who taught > History- > > who said that very thing and wrote on the "luach" > the > > word "sex"- then went on to say that whereas in > [...] 28295 179 36_Re: Baltimore Hebrew College Riddle-12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 13 Jul 2005 22:02:29 -0700545_iso-8859-1 Dr Velder!!!!!!!!--it just came to me---susie --- Sue Liberman wrote:

> It wasn't Dr. Fein- and it started with a "V"...I > just > csan't remember his name- he was tall and big- like > Barry!--susie > --- Lon & Shelly Ephraim wrote: > > > Drs. Kaplan? Aberbach? Baumgartner? Rabbi Bloom? > > > > On Jul 13, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Sue Liberman wrote: > > > > > Kol HaKavod Steve!- I remember one lecture in > > Hebrew > > > College- from one of the teachers who taught > > History- > > [...] 28475 101 41_Re: LA Kumzitz, Shironim and the ARCHIVE!0_15_ronoren@AOL.COM31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 01:12:42 -0400403_us-ascii I gotta stick my 2 cents in, of course, when this stuff comes up in discussion. If anyone has GILBOA or SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA Habonim historical items, PLEASE! consider donating them to the GILBOA ARCHIVES! We have lots of Neshef Adbooks, photos and other great things. It will all be on the Net one day. Copies of Shironim would be great. Let me know--Ron Orenstein ronoren@aol.com Jackie? [...] 28577 66 59_Re: HABONET Digest - 12 Jul 2005 to 13 Jul 2005 (#2005-188)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:46:25 +0200467_us-ascii At 06:00 14/07/2005, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:18:27 +0000 >From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET >Subject: Re: kumzitz reunion >MIME-version: 1.0 >Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_7+mcvdOySOiEwjv7ZRVuWw)" > >Do you realize that we left for Grofit 30 fucking years ago!!! >



What part of speech is fucking verb, adverb or adjective? Why not call them the best years of our lives ? CLP (clarity of language patrol) [...] 28644 34 48_Re: advertising Na'aleh by subliminal suggestion0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 09:13:43 EDT605_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/13/05 11:56:28 PM, jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET writes:

<< Last night, as part of the Jerusalem summer film festival, I saw an Israeli documentary about the Yiddish Theater of the 3rd millenium that put on "Green Fields." (There were some real characters featured - I enjoyed it; not as nostalgic as I had hoped, but very sweet). Of the people interviewed, there was a couple (maybe in their 70s or 80s) who helped raise money for the theater, and they guy - maybe his last name was Devokir??something, was pictured sitting on his couch and wearing a Na'aleh t-shirt!!! [...] 28679 55 48_Re: advertising Na'aleh by subliminal suggestion12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 15:35:18 +0200640_iso-8859-1 I remember something more: Jo and Sally, maybe? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:13 PM Subject: Re: advertising Na'aleh by subliminal suggestion



> In a message dated 7/13/05 11:56:28 PM, jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET writes: > > << Last night, as part of the Jerusalem summer film festival, I saw an > Israeli documentary about the Yiddish Theater of the 3rd millenium that > put on > "Green Fields." (There were some real characters featured - I enjoyed it; > not as > nostalgic as I had hoped, but very sweet). Of the people interviewed, [...] 28735 144 15_Re: LA kumsitz?11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:46:27 +0000634_- What makes you think we aren't interested in shironim from other machanot. Just because "moshava's the best kvutza in the country, our spirit is ever strong, onward we go, hey! forward to victory" doesn't mean we won't "raise our voice in song, hey! hey! hey!" with someone else's shiron.

Noam









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 28880 71 6_Isrart11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:09:27 -0700515_iso-8859-1 I don't know if someone has already passed this along, but better repetition than loss.

For a great contemporary Israeli artist's tour, goto www.isrart.com

Enjoy

Steve





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 28952 190 79_Re: Fw: July 12, 05 - Suicide Bombers identified [Chanel 4 News, London--Simon]11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:26:26 -0700531_iso-8859-1 Sharon

I, for once, am on your side. There was a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta the contained a song that went "You've got to be taught to hate- starting from six, or seven or eight".

I agree with you that if I were taught to hate other human beings from the moment my tiny little head crowned from my mother's body, I would become a hating machine as sure as anything. None of us is immune to that sort of a beginning. From that standpoint, we are all the same. But I was not taught to hate, and I am [...] 29143 230 12_Re: Canucks?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 16:35:29 -0700702_iso-8859-1 Melissa in Toronto

WELCOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: "Melissa Tapper" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:45 AM Subject: Canucks?



> Hello all, > > I am new to this list serve and I am curious how many Canadian alumni are > amongst us? > > Can all the Degrassi loving Canucks please stand up. > > Thanks, > Melissa in Toronto > > > Quoting Steve Klein : > >> >> Guys >> Subject: CAMERA Alert: Contact Senate Appropriations Committee Now! >> >> >> This is Urgent as action has to be taken by tomorrow. [...] 29374 38 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 19:52:27 -0400425_utf-8 Noam,

You are not supposed to use this mail list for SPAM.

Norm ---- Noam Stopak wrote: What makes you think we aren't interested in shironim from other machanot. Just because "moshava's the best kvutza in the country, our spirit is ever strong, onward we go, hey! forward to victory" doesn't mean we won't "raise our voice in song, hey! hey! hey!" with someone else's shiron. [...] 29413 65 15_Re: LA kumsitz?20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:33:12 -0400621_US-ASCII SPAM??????!!!!!!???????

Noam, let's capture their flag.

Shelly







On Jul 14, 2005, at 7:52 PM, normk@ADELPHIA.NET wrote:

> Noam, > > You are not supposed to use this mail list for SPAM. > > Norm > ---- Noam Stopak wrote: > What makes you think we aren't interested in shironim from other > machanot. Just because "moshava's the best kvutza in the country, our > spirit is ever strong, onward we go, hey! forward to victory" doesn't > mean we won't "raise our voice in song, hey! hey! hey!" with someone > else's shiron. > > Noam > > > [...] 29479 161 11_Re: Sharing12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 14 Jul 2005 22:56:55 -0400510_iso-8859-1 Sue Liberman wrote: >Hi- I was suffering last night from AKNSS (Alte-Kaker >-No- Sleep -Syndrome) and was awake at about 4 AM- >listening to Don Imus in the Morning on MSNBC- when >Thom Friedman called in on the phone ( or they called >him-don't know)- He was amazing- and stated the fact >that this terrorism will never go away unless it is >attacked from within the Musilm/Islamic movement >itself. So- not matter what Bush,or other world >leaders (sic) say, this is going to have to happen. [...] 29641 72 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 07:55:51 +0000530_- Steal their mailbox more likely.



> SPAM??????!!!!!!??????? > > Noam, let's capture their flag. > > Shelly > > > > > On Jul 14, 2005, at 7:52 PM, normk@ADELPHIA.NET wrote: > > > Noam, > > > > You are not supposed to use this mail list for SPAM. > > > > Norm > > ---- Noam Stopak wrote: > > What makes you think we aren't interested in shironim from other > > machanot. Just because "moshava's the best kvutza in the country, our > > spirit is ever strong, onward we go, hey! forward to [...] 29714 293 50_Choose Your Colors but Watch Out for the Flagpoles12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:10:51 +0200561_iso-8859-1 Haverot/im I wonder how much has changed at Habonim camps. At our US and at our Canadian machanot we used to fly two flags morning and evening . They were the North American ones and the Israeli ( which was the Zionist flag before the birth of Israel) and sing both the Hebrew and English anthems. If my memory serves me the Hebrew one was Imber's HaTikva in the morning and Bialik's Techezekna at sundown. I remember a sicha on flags in which a Nahman Syrkin's essay was the text. In the hopeful spirit of cautious internationalism of his time [...] 30008 210 54_Re: Choose Your Colors but Watch Out for the Flagpoles12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:13:53 -0700617_iso-8859-1 Dear Amnon- Ever the teacher, you somehow manage to always stab us with such interesting "points-of-view" about things we probably never thought of...TODAH...And "Ladders Trump Flags"--sounds like a great game!....Shabbat Shalom- Sue(sie)

--- Amnon Hadary wrote:

> Haverot/im > I wonder how much has changed at Habonim camps. At > our US and at our > Canadian machanot we used to fly two flags morning > and evening . They were > the North American ones and the Israeli ( which was > the Zionist flag before > the birth of Israel) and sing both the Hebrew and > [...] 30219 54 11_Re: Sharing0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:52:34 -0700471_us-ascii David wrote:

It's a shame that this sort of thing (the condemnation of terrorist bombings by Muslim organizations) is routinely ignored by the Western media.



It's more than a shame, it's a crime and a tragedy. It perpetuates the "Evil Empire" view of Muslims, and maintains the atmosphere of fear and hopelessness that the Bush administration and many of it's allies and supporters feel they need to keep moving their agendas forward. [...] 30274 43 10_LA kumsitz0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 08:58:45 -0700479_us-ascii Instead of trying to put together a BIG LA kumsitz, how about a small kumsitz? Anybody who would like to bring their shironim and come over to my house and sing (play guitar, harmonica, whatever) is invited over for pot-luck and music on Saturday, August 27. I've even got a piano (though it is out of tune). If you're interested, contact me off-list. Even if it's just Ellen and me (though I don't know if she'll be willing to drive all that way), it will be fun. [...] 30318 129 11_Re: Sharing8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 19:05:09 +0200533_us-ascii Maybe it's the bombs going off in subways and buses that "maintains the atmosphere of fear."

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:53 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Sharing





David wrote:

It's a shame that this sort of thing (the condemnation of terrorist bombings by Muslim organizations) is routinely ignored by the Western media. [...] 30448 73 21_any at Na'aleh from ?15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:33:02 -0400566_iso-8859-1 We are driving up to Na'aleh this weekend for visitor's day so see our daughter Gal. She is a madricha there this summer. We were wondering if there is anyone else we might know that also have kids up there, either from my workshop in '73/'74, at Yotvata/Ma'ayan Baruch ( I can't remember the number) or M.B. or Gezer. At Tavor visitors days I've gotten used to recognizing the faces as we've all changed. But I think that to recognize anyone at Na'aleh I would need some advance knowledge of who to possibly look for. Thanks, Bev (Salinger) Warshai [...] 30522 55 15_Re: LA kumsitz?11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:49:15 +0000606_- How is this SPAM Norm?

Why isn't Na'Aleh subliminal advertising similarly objectionable?

What is the Galil symbol anyway? Where exactly do they wear it?

Noam



> Noam, > > You are not supposed to use this mail list for SPAM. > > Norm > ---- Noam Stopak wrote: > What makes you think we aren't interested in shironim from other machanot. Just > because "moshava's the best kvutza in the country, our spirit is ever strong, > onward we go, hey! forward to victory" doesn't mean we won't "raise our voice in > song, hey! hey! hey!" with someone [...] 30578 185 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 14:25:01 EDT292_US-ASCII Noam, It is clear that clogging up the bandwidth with irresponsible and inaccurate claims that Moshava is the greatest Kvutzah in the country MUST be considered SPAM. It is so well known that Naaleh is the finest machaneh that even Norm out on the left coast is aware of it. :) [...] 30764 452 67_Fw: A Poverty of Dignity and a Wealth of Rage By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 12:27:24 -0700615_Windows-1252

Besides passing along this well-written article, I am including some comments gleaned fro yesterday's LA Times; When interviewing some of the Muslim neighbors of the London suicide bombers, there was very little condemnation of the act or of the actors. Instead, it was the fault of the West and non-Muslims, saying that the Sept. 11 attacks must have been condoned by the U.S. government to provoke anger among Muslims because it could have shot down the hijacked planes.- and that no Jews were in the collapsed World Trade Center buildings and (get ready for this) the U.S. $20 bill had [...] 31217 256 4_spam5_aviva21_aviva5675@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 15:50:24 -0500430_iso-8859-1 Sad to see so much chest beating and braying from the other kvutzot. I guess we Tavorniks sit quietly aware that, in the end,-not east nor west, but Midwest is best!

When your kids are ready for a REAL Habonim camp experience, Tavor is waiting.

Aviva Sherman Boggs ----- Original Message ----- From: LHIAM1@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 1:25 PM Subject: Re: LA kumsitz? [...] 31474 26 8_Re: spam11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:00:38 +0000362_- Aviva's note reminds me of the old George Carlin bit about junk vs stuff - "move your junk so I can put my stuff there" etc.

While we're beating our chests, I'm proud of the size of the contingent of kids on MBI that are connected to the 26th workshop. 6 or 7 that I know of for sure, and perhaps others that I don't recognize due to name changes. [...] 31501 30 11_Re: Sharing12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:37:22 -0400574_us-ascii Jon wrote: > Maybe it's the bombs going off in subways and buses that "maintains the > atmosphere of fear."

Of course, Jon, you're right. 100% of the blame belongs to the people who are blowing up subways and buses, cafes and discos, pizza stores and ballrooms.

I don't read enough of the Israeli media to know whether the coverage is as one-sided there as it is here, but in the US the media reports that Muslims are suicide bombers and President Bush says that Islam is a religion of peace. The voices of Muslims who oppose suicide bombers and [...] 31532 52 8_Re: spam5_aviva21_aviva5675@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 17:57:05 -0500421_iso-8859-1 Noam, my best memory of my (traitor) summer at Mosh is having my mind opened by the Grateful Dead during Revolution. A life changing experience that stayed with me for the next 20 years.

Other than that--it was back to Tavor for me!

Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noam Stopak" To: Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:00 PM Subject: Re: spam [...] 31585 65 15_Re: LA kumsitz?0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 22:28:01 EDT397_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/15/05 2:26:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LHIAM1@AOL.COM writes:



> As for subliminal Naaleh advertising ...Just the thought of Yechiel > Dobikerir in a T-Shirt ... ANY T-shirt is beyond imagining

My thoughts exactly!

Then again I'm reminded of a line from Inherit the Wind - something like "a great mind once inhabited that head." Avi [...] 31651 142 16_Fwd: Re: Sharing12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:36:47 -0700555_iso-8859-1 --- David Fleiss wrote:

> Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:48:46 -0400 > To: Sue Liberman > From: David Fleiss > Subject: Re: Sharing > > Hi Sue, > > I'm not sure if you intended this message for the > whole mailing list, > but I think it was only sent to me. > > Shabbat shalom, > > David > > > >There are a few Palestinian poets and > intellectuals, > >and musicians, who have spoken out against this- > but > >the only real powerful (sic) one I have heard about > is [...] 31794 127 11_Re: sharing8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:02:41 +0200338_us-ascii Well, maybe your right David. I don't watch American TV. On the other hand, I did a simple search at Google News ( http://makeashorterlink.com/?N22D5207B ) on Muslim condemnation of the London bombing and there were over half a million results. I don't know what media you're watching, but the condemnations were out there. [...] 31922 17 11_Re: sharing0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:36:03 +0000448_- Jon,

I realize I am extremely slow, but could you explain what you mean by "Europe's Muslim problem" and that Europe is committing suicide?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 31940 218 11_Re: sharing0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:19:16 EDT613_US-ASCII Inreally wouldn't worry too much about an anti-Muslim backlash. It seems to me that the politicians and the chattering classes are falling all over themselves to tell us how wonderful Islam is and how moderate most Muslims are. I guess everything will stay calm until the next atrocity. Nobody has the guts to confront Europe's Muslim problem and talk about solutions; it's too politically incorrect. It's appalling to watch the world's most advanced culture commit suicide, but it seems to be what the Europeans want to do, or they're too busy enjoying La Dolce Vita to see what's happening around [...] 32159 80 11_Re: sharing6_Martin18_emskol@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:56:47 -0400637_us-ascii Well worth watching:

http://www.archive.org/details/ThePowerOfNightmares





This film explores the origins in the 1940s and 50s of Islamic Fundamentalism in the Middle East, and Neoconservatism in America, parallels between these movements, and their effect on the world today.







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32240 58 6_quotes16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:23:43 -0400588_us-ascii In Habonet #2005-189, Steve Klein writes

> There was a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta the contained a song that > went "You've got to be taught to hate- starting from six, or seven or > eight".

Wrong! That quote is from Rogers' & Hammerstein's musical South Pacific.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32299 25 17_Islamic responses16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:28:39 -0400465_ISO-8859-1 Unfortunately, the list of Islamic organizations quoted by Arthur Waskow--forwarded on by David Fleiss--is both short and marginal. Indeed, some of them, like CAIR, are remarkably disingenuous in their condemnations as they are actually fronts for Islamic terrorism and conduits for its funding. IMHO, Arthur--an old friend--is both naive and a bit delusional in his pacifism over anything else. Consider the oracle whence comes the truth you cite. [...] 32325 97 11_Re: sharing12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 07:43:29 -0700569_iso-8859-1 For what it is worth, I have to agree with Jon- the Muslim presence in Europe is very disturbing- Just look at France- the entire Jewish population was asked to get out by the Jewish Agency- and at one point in the recent past- they were ready to do that---The silent Muslim majority is too huge to be silent- but that is the fact...and Don't forget the murder of Van Gogh, and even anti-Semitic incidents now going on in Ireland.....It wouldn't take too much, in my opinion, to create a Jewish slaughter, and I doubt the "civilized" Europeans would do [...] 32423 220 11_Re: sharing17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:14:54 +0200528_us-ascii



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 32644 117 10_Re: quotes11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 08:55:55 -0700527_iso-8859-1

----- Elihu

I MEANT Rogers and Hammerstein. My apologies to both groups of men and to anyone else who was appalled at the mix-up.

Thank you for all the cards and letters.

Steve

Subject: quotes



In Habonet #2005-189, Steve Klein writes

There was a Gilbert and Sullivan operetta the contained a song that went "You've got to be taught to hate- starting from six, or seven or eight". Wrong! That quote is from Rogers' & Hammerstein's musical South Pacific. [...] 32762 72 11_Re: sharing8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:27:20 +02001433_US-ASCII Richard, try these articles for a start:



http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displayStory.cfm?story_id=3427223

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20050701faessay84409/robert-s-leiken/europe-s- angry-muslims.html

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18314

http://islamicsydney.com/story.php?id=1400

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/0,,SB112103551842081687-IZjgoNmlaF4opymZ nuHbKeIm4,00.html

http://www.meforum.org/article/337

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002191382_dutch27.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-1488514,00.html

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20041208-053816-2816r.htm

http://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/Articles/Milliere-2003-04-10. asp

http://www.cfr.org/publication.php?id=8218

http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5239

http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/11/09/politicus_ed3__1.php

http://www.meforum.org/article/338

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:36 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: sharing



Jon,

I realize I am extremely slow, but could you explain what you mean by "Europe's Muslim problem" and that Europe is committing suicide? [...] 32835 341 17_Re: sharing Heidi8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:36:40 +0200342_US-ASCII Heidi, why should you be "OK with this different culture?" Isn't it violent, intolerant and dangerous? Is it truly, in terms of its values and accomplishments "equally as valid?"

Come over to the Dark Side. Become a right wing cultural imperialist like me. It's a lot easier than you'd think and, ultimately, liberating. [...] 33177 165 14_Terrorism / us11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:40:25 -0700562_iso-8859-1 Just a word or two on the current discussion on terrorism in Israel and elsewhere.

I will keep it simple, if only out of the feeling that things are going to get heated and complicated over the next few months.

In my opinion, the bad news is that 99% of the "condemnations" are not condemnations at all. Most Muslims and non-Muslims alike seem to think it is OK to add the stipulation that violence in the name of (fill in the blank with any qualifyer) is not really terrorism but justified for its lofty ends. I have rarely read a [...] 33343 7412 38_Wall St. Journal - Mosque for Ex-Nazis16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 13:41:46 -0400713_ISO-8859-1

The Wall Street Journal



July 12, 2005



PAGE ONE





DOW JONES REPRINTS This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to your colleagues, clients or customers, use the Order Reprints tool at the bottom of any article or visit: www.djreprints.com .

. See a sample reprint in PDF format . . Order a reprint of this article now . [...] 40756 57 22_glasner, ruth and judy13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 20:28:02 +0200594_windows-1255 A baltimore acquaintance sent me the telephone number of Rabbi Judah and Debora Glasner in Baltimore: 410-358-9466. This number is from the Eruv book, 1997. He suggested that the people looking for the glasner sisters try rabbi glasner.

good luck and shavua tov

pearl

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 40814 83 17_Re: sharing Heidi0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:50:58 EDT488_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/16/2005 1:38:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Come over to the Dark Side. Become a right wing cultural imperialist like me. It's a lot easier than you'd think and, ultimately, liberating.



I saw that movie where Anakin Skywalker went over to the dark side. I will stick with Luke and Yoda. I am as frightened of you neo con facists as I am of the Moslems Jon. You and you liberated buddies are dangerous. [...] 40898 83 11_Re: sharing0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 19:02:11 +0000380_- I have not had a chance to read the entire assignment yet (and I will not read the frontpage and washington times pieces at all) but I did come across a line that I wanted to comment on.

Now this doesn't have anything to do with the basic arguement about the "Muslim problem in Europe" but it piqued my interest because I've heard it so often and it is very untrue. [...] 40982 137 17_Re: sharing Heidi8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:15:03 +0200552_us-ascii I find your lack of faith disturbing.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 8:51 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: sharing Heidi





In a message dated 07/16/2005 1:38:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:



Come over to the Dark Side. Become a right wing cultural imperialist like me. It's a lot easier than you'd think and, ultimately, liberating. [...] 41120 80 24_Anti-Disengagement Songs14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 19:16:54 +0000667_- Much of the anti-disengagement poetry and music has not made it to the Israeli public because it is composed in the style of Kinnot (mourning songs recited on Tisha B'Av) which require a familiarity with Talmudic literature that is beyond most secular Israelis.

Recently however, anti-disengagement songs in a more vernacular style are being heard in Israel. Most noteable is the song version of the anti-disengagement slogan "Jews don't banish Jews" by Ariel Silver which is currently playing on many Israeli radio stations. The song can be heard by clicking on the link at the following Ma'ariv webpage: http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART/958/817.html [...] 41201 82 17_Re: sharing Heidi0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:51:48 EDT552_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/16/2005 3:16:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

I find your lack of faith disturbing.



I was raised with values. Truth was one of them. You seem to love Karl Rove and his lies. You are no Mt Airy intellectual boy. You have let the Muslims turn you into a Rove robot. You are as much as a terror victim as if you had been killed. In some ways you are worse Jon because you have these dark side fantasies. I don't think it's a joke. I think you find evil to be liberating. [...] 41284 58 11_Re: sharing12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:10:32 -0400600_ISO-8859-1 1) I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I insist on believing that most Muslims are not terror supporters for the same reason that I believe that most Jews are not torture supporters: because they/we are not.

2) Some Palestinians were happy that America was struck on 9/11 because America supplies the money and the hardware that supports the Israeli occupation of Palestine. Some Israelis and American supporters of Israel were happy that America was struck on 9/11 because America would understand what it feels like to be the victim of terrorism. Shame on all of them. [...] 41343 57 26_Re: glasner, ruth and judy12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 16 Jul 2005 16:42:15 -0700623_iso-8859-1 Thanks Pearl- It's susie--I am looking for Judy---actually- our workshop is- and the last I knew- she was out here in LA...but I couldn't find anything abut her on the net...or about Ruthie----I will call this rabbi and see if they are related...shavua tov- susie

--- Pearl Skolnik wrote:

> A baltimore acquaintance sent me the telephone > number of Rabbi Judah and Debora Glasner in > Baltimore: 410-358-9466. This number is from the > Eruv book, 1997. He suggested that the people > looking for the glasner sisters try rabbi glasner. > > good luck and shavua tov [...] 41401 122 10_Re: shiron0_13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 03:47:12 -0400418_us-ascii Folks,

I had the honor of being the editor in the early 90s of the Second and Third editions of the Galil Shiron which is used at GAlil and at Naaleh today. It has lots and lots of the old stuff in it plus a whole section of Israeli and "American-Jewish" new stuff. Contact Hank Albert at OHANKA@aol.com and perhaps he can send a copy of it to someone who can convert it to an electronic version. [...] 41524 347 17_Re: sharing Heidi17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:20:30 +0200528_us-ascii



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 41872 385 17_Re: sharing Heidi0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 11:46:58 +0000714_- Jon wrote: "Isn't it violent, intolerant and dangerous?"

You were referring to Arab Muslim culture, but in what way doesn't this describe much of the settler culture?



> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 15/07/2005 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...] 42258 62 17_Re: sharing Heidi8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:18:36 +0200533_us-ascii I was referring to Islamic Jihadism. But it could also apply to professional ice hockey.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2005 1:47 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: sharing Heidi



Jon wrote: "Isn't it violent, intolerant and dangerous?"

You were referring to Arab Muslim culture, but in what way doesn't this describe much of the settler culture? [...] 42321 598 17_Re: sharing Heidi8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:22:59 +0200602_us-ascii Heidi, I just think that we agree with each other. Seeing another culture for what it really is isn't the same as "accepting" it. If aspects of a certain culture or religion or ethnic group is loathsome, than say so! We of the "progressive" Western civilization have become accustomed to falling all over ourselves to avoid appearing judgmental about other cultures, even when they have repellent aspects we would never accept in our own. How does one square, for instance, Islam's treatment of women with our own? The answer, for most "progressives" is to ignore the question or make up [...] 42920 317 40_sharing Heidi and the chattering classes0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:34:52 EDT443_US-ASCII Friends, I cannot believe that I woke up thinking about Jon Baum. At first I felt silly. I said to myself "Sam is that the most important thing you have to worry about." And of course the answer was "no" But Jon Baum, the Habonet neo Con has solved a great mystery and taught us all a lesson and for that I owe him a debt of gratitude. Jon has explained the inner psychology of the new Jewish Neo Con concisely in a few phrases, [...] 43238 21 17_Re: sharing Heidi11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:36:32 +0000579_- Yeah Sam, as a friend recently exhorted me: "Stop hating Freedom and go buy something!"

Doesn't Na'aleh have a song about "... the dark side, it's good for you"?

Might be from the same play as the brilliant "This is the Dining of the Age of Asparagus"

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 43260 439 17_Re: sharing Heidi11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 20:51:31 +0000623_- There you go again Richard. Haven't you been paying attention? It has been proven beyond a shadow of doubt on this forum that the settlers are a "quality population".

Noam

> Jon wrote: "Isn't it violent, intolerant and dangerous?" > > You were referring to Arab Muslim culture, but in what way doesn't this describe > much of the settler culture? > > > > > > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.16/50 - Release Date: 15/07/2005 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The [...] 43700 57 21_Re: Islamic responses12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sun, 17 Jul 2005 17:48:00 -0700329_iso-8859-1 I didn't see the original "list" this refers to, but the sentences below read like libel and incitement of the worst sort. Please show one iota of real evidence that CAIR is a "front for Islamic terrorism," whatever that is. Otherwise put a lid on it. I'm curious what others were also on this list. David Mandel [...] 43758 15 16_Superior Culture0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 03:15:31 +0000512_- After watching an Israeli soldier assault an unarmed Palestinian civilian by lowering his head and head butting him while the other soldiers held back the camera man made me wonder about Jon's superior culture.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 43774 71 13_The Dark Side12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:04:39 +0200441_us-ascii Amnon's Laundry Tip: carefully sort the darks from the whites. Remember, lights don't run and spoil the darks.

Don Delillo an American author wrote somewhere: "Europe reminds me of a hard cover book; America, the paperback version."

John Updike calls America a vast conspiracy to make you happy.

But Noam is the best: Yeah Sam, as a friend recently exhorted me: "Stop hating Freedom and go buy something!" [...] 43846 55 20_Re: superior culture17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:27:42 +0200546_us-ascii I can't help but think that everyone's attitude about the ME is already formed and we see what we want to see. Apropro of this soldier, a few years ago there was a group of Americans that came to put a halt to the bulldozing that Israel was doing in Gaza. Israel says that people were using these buildings to shoot from and so bulldozed them. THe PA said they belonged to simple people and Israel was adding to its oppression by making people homeless. And if anyway they were being shot at from there then it was deserved because [...] 43902 140 17_Re: The Dark Side0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:39:39 EDT408_US-ASCII In a message dated 07/18/2005 4:03:46 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Amnon's Laundry Tip: carefully sort the darks from the whites. Remember, lights don't run and spoil the darks.

Oh yeah. I know that. I was all confused with Darth Vader amd that dark side.







John Updike calls America a vast conspiracy to make you happy. [...] 44043 112 19_The London bombings8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:29:31 +0200541_us-ascii The London bombings

A week on from the London terror bombings of 7 July a number of key points are becoming clearer. They include:

1. Al-Qaida still has the capacity to launch major operations in even the most sophisticatedly policed cities that have long expected such an attack. There was nothing remotely surprising about bomb attacks on London's transport network, yet the combined resources of the Metropolitan Police, MI5, and Britain's Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) were unable to prevent the attacks. [...] 44156 31 20_Re: superior culture0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:12:54 +0000566_- Heidi wrote: "So when we talk about the intolerant and dangerous Israeli soldier who is "head butting"a Palestinian I think that soldier needs to be disciplined. But, Richard, how does this compare with Sderot where bombs are landing despite the withdrawl and with Falujah which had the guts bombed out of it by the US innocent and guilty alike with area bombs (I forget what they are called) that Israel never uses and the Canadians (for godsakes) who popped off locals in Africa for the fun of it many years back? Since this is our country (sic) we want it [...] 44188 111 23_Re: The London bombings13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:12:43 -0400531_us-ascii Jon writes:

>6. The Londonbombings, however, have shown that seemingly well-adjusted children of Asian >immigrants in Britain can be recruited as suicide bombers - and if that is >the case in Britain then it is likely to be the case in other Western >countries with substantial Muslim immigrant communities. Post-London, the >fact that Jihadism appeals only to Muslims is less comforting than it was if >the type of Muslim who can be induced to carry out suicide attacks includes >Western-educated youths. > > [...] 44300 454 26_Blair on Islamic terrorism16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:15:11 -0400388_us-ascii BBC NEWS Full text: Blair speech on terror The following is the full text of Prime Minister Tony Blair's speech on the London bombings, delivered at the Labour Party national conference on Saturday.

The greatest danger is that we fail to face up to the nature of the threat we are dealing with. What we witnessed in London last Thursday week was not an aberrant act. [...] 44755 67 17_Re: The Dark Side13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:27:01 EDT347_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/18/05 4:03:46 Eastern Daylight Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:



> Amnon's Laundry Tip: carefully sort the darks from the whites. Remember, > lights don't run and spoil the darks. > >

"...Remember -- to play music on a piano, it takes both the white keys and the darkies..." Lenny Bruce [...] 44823 31 4_evil16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 10:31:24 -0400560_ISO-8859-1 In Habonet 2005-192, Heidi writes

> And by the by I never said most Muslims are terrorists. I said they > support it.

Might it not be more correct to assert that Most Muslims abet Islamic terror by mere inaction? After all, as Edmund Burke presciently observed, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." This is by no means the same as giving support, even tacit support. It's just that most folk won't put themselves on the line; they just get up and go to work each day instead. But, as Burke [...] 44855 154 109_Fw: Headline- "Reed Johnson Re-Defines 'Humiliation-by-Lingerie' as Torture and Unwittingly Aids Our Enemies"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:39:28 -0700535_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: calendar.letters@latimes.com Cc: letters@latimes.com Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 7:38 AM Subject: Headline- "Reed Johnson Re-Defines 'Humiliation-by-Lingerie' as Torture and Unwittingly Aids Our Enemies"



Reed Johnson

Per your front-page article on Fernando Botero L A Times Sunday July 17, 2005

I guess if you work for a newspaper, you get used to taking flak. I hope you aren't so used to it that you dismiss some valid feedback. [...] 45010 69 4_Why?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:45:05 -0700603_iso-8859-1 Judy wrote:

It is not a great consolation that these British born and educated youths would be mass-murderers rather than suicide bombers. Still, it is somewhat different to recruit someone to kill others than to kill while committing certain suicide.



Steve asked:

Why?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 45080 69 8_Re: evil11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:58:02 -0700592_iso-8859-1 Heidi

There is an important point to be gotten here so that we can perhaps go on to the next step for change from within the Muslim community.

The point is that most Muslims, in my way of looking at it, do not realise they support terrorism, at least not to our definitions of terrorism. Since we, as Jews, as Americans, as Westerners, are being presented as "violators", or infidels, or just plain bad guys, attacking us is not defined or perceived as terrorism, but as a justifiable pursuit. When you take into account the MASSIVE amounts of Islamic education [...] 45150 58 8_Re: Why?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:59:42 -0700334_iso-8859-1 I have to ask the same thing--The bottom line is that innocent people were murdered- wehther or not the murderers knew they could "escape" or not- to go on and do more??? This doesn't seem like a "rationale"- but smacks of those "studies" which have no merit or reason because we will never know the answer........sue [...] 45209 301 23_Fw: Did God Create Evil11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:00:02 -0700719_iso-8859-1

Sending this along just for those who may never have seen it.

Steve













Did God Create Evil?





The university professor challenged his students with this question:

Did God create everything that exists? " A student bravely replied "Yes, he did!" "God created everything?" the professor asked. "Yes sir," the student replied. The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil." The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that [...] 45511 209 23_Re: The London bombings8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 18:03:41 +0200396_us-ascii C'mon Judy, you can't really believe that. What comfort can you take in mass murder versus mass murder/suicide? Sounds like you're picking nits.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 4:13 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: The London bombings [...] 45721 229 33_Fw: Was this in your local media?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:07:32 -0700587_iso-8859-1

HABONETTERS

I am forwarding this not because I think we need to stay in Gaza. That is not the case. However, if anyone thinks this state of affairs (under-reported in the media) is not a concern, then that also needs to be addressed.

Steve





Dear Harry: Are we are still going to give them Gush Katif so that they can use all of Central Israel as target practice? No one in the middle of the country will be safe. And there are those who worry about us in Northern Israel. Please pass this along to anyone who still thinks that [...] 45951 170 23_Habonim alum makes good16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:11:25 -0400676_us-ascii

------------------------------------------------------------------------ July 18, 2005



When Writing an Irate Letter to the Editor Is Just Not Enough

By SARA IVRY

Convention dictates that when newspaper readers question the accuracy of an article, they ask for a correction or write a letter to the editor. But when the conservative pollster and political consultant Frank Luntz had a complaint with The Forward, the venerable New York newspaper of Jewish culture, he took a different approach. [...] 46122 184 21_Re: Islamic responses11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:20:05 -0700381_iso-8859-1 David

I will not ask you "to put a lid on it", especially since this is a forum for all opinions. However, I would ask everyone on this list,including David, if "put a lid on it" is appropriate language for us. My guess is that in the heat of argument, a regretable choice of words was made in error. That is my opinion. David- Do I need to put a lid on it? [...] 46307 189 21_Re: Islamic responses11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 08:30:35 -0700482_iso-8859-1

David

Here is a PS to my letter to you.

You were correct in putting out the question "What is a front for Islamic terrorism?". Some would say it is an organisation that condones attacks on Jewish children, some might say that it would be an organisation that excuses violent excesses in the name of long-festering grievances with the Western way. This would be a great question for discussion if only for the sheer nebulousness of the concept. [...] 46497 219 117_FW: Re: Fw: Headline- "Reed Johnson Re-Defines 'Humiliation-by-Lingerie' as Torture and Unwittingly Aids Our Enemies"0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:37:14 +0000751_-





---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: rdsmith1957@comcast.net To: Steve Klein Subject: Re: Fw: Headline- "Reed Johnson Re-Defines 'Humiliation-by-Lingerie' as Torture and Unwittingly Aids Our Enemies" Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:21:26 +0000

Glad to see that you don't just send out your Rush induced tirades only to us.











------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 46717 22 25_FW: Re: Islamic responses0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:37:31 +0000671_- ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: rdsmith1957@comcast.net To: Steve Klein Subject: Re: Islamic responses Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 15:34:52 +0000

Interesting that once again you refuse to confront the issue and instead play the poor oppressed victim. How about supplying the proof that was requested?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 46740 93 20_Re: superior culture8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:05:35 +0200430_us-ascii Hi Richard,

Just to clear things up:

* I was referring to Western culture as a whole and not Israeli culture. You know, representative government, freedom, the enlightenment and all that. It isn't fascistic to think so. I know that we can all find examples of barbaric behavior in that same Western culture, but it usually comes with its own solutions. Anyway, the main point is that it's our culture. [...] 46834 287 23_Re: The London bombings13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:40:43 -0400529_us-ascii Whether these bombers intended to commit suicide doesn;t make any difference to the people who died or were injured in these bombings but don't you think it is just the tiniest bit interesting that perhaps these bombers might not have realized that they were intended to die along with their targets? All I was pointing out is that the emphasis on their being recruited as SUICIDE bombers may be misplaced. The report suggests that maybe they were recruited to be bombers but not necessarily to die in the process. [...] 47122 442 23_Re: The London bombings8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 20:01:26 +0200673_us-ascii Like the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 6:41 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: The London bombings



Whether these bombers intended to commit suicide doesn;t make any difference to the people who died or were injured in these bombings but don't you think it is just the tiniest bit interesting that perhaps these bombers might not have realized that they were intended to die along with their targets? All I was pointing out is that the emphasis on their being [...] 47565 87 16_Einstein and God0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 17:17:53 +0000306_- Summary of the eRumor This is an account of a classroom encounter between young Albert Einstein and a professor who was arguing that the Christian faith is a myth. Einstein argues that evil is the absence of God in the same way that darkness is the absence of light and cold is the absence of heat. [...] 47653 67 23_Re: The London bombings13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 13:42:02 -0400512_us-ascii Yeah, a lot like that.

Judy

Jon Baum wrote:

> Like the difference between a psychopath and a sociopath.





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 47721 354 14_Unhappy camper8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:01:44 +0200584_us-ascii Anybody from Mosh remember this woman?

Color War, Oh What a Bore By Yael Goldstein July 15, 2005 I've never much gone in for "two kinds of people" theories, but if I had to choose a way to divide up the world, it might be into those people who loved sleepaway camp and those who hated it. (As far as I know, no one is ever indifferent where sleepaway camp is concerned.) I myself hated it, largely because of the people who loved it. Their "camp spirit" embarrassed me, their competitive gregariousness exhausted me, much as their in-crowd Shabbat-o-grams eluded [...] 48076 235 18_Re: Unhappy camper12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 12:10:00 -0700541_iso-8859-1 I don't, but JOn- there were a few camps named "Moshava"- perhaps she went to other ones....(how could she possibly say this about MY Mosh???!)--sue

--- Jon Baum wrote:

> Anybody from Mosh remember this woman? > > Color War, Oh What a Bore > By Yael Goldstein > July 15, 2005 > I've never much gone in for "two kinds of people" > theories, but if I had to > choose a way to divide up the world, it might be > into those people who loved > sleepaway camp and those who hated it. (As far as [...] 48312 42 18_Re: Unhappy camper11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:33:12 +0000522_- At one point she talks about three of the camps being orthodox and even the conservative Ramah" so I think she is referring to the Ortho Moshava in PA.

Noam



> I don't, but JOn- there were a few camps named > "Moshava"- perhaps she went to other ones....(how > could she possibly say this about MY Mosh???!)--sue > > --- Jon Baum wrote: > > > Anybody from Mosh remember this woman? > > > > Color War, Oh What a Bore > > By Yael Goldstein > > July 15, 2005 > > ... Not > > [...] 48355 141 27_Re: Habonim alum makes good0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 19:40:18 -0400703_us-ascii Go JJ Go!

Elihu (or anyone else) did you see it in the print edition? I couldn't find it.

Thanks,

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: Elihu D. Davison To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 11:11:25 -0400 Subject: Habonim alum makes good











July 18, 2005 When Writing an Irate Letter to the Editor Is Just Not Enough By SARA IVRY Convention dictates that when newspaper readers question the accuracy of an article, they ask for a correction or write a letter to the editor. But when the conservative pollster and political consultant Frank Luntz had a complaint with The Forward, [...] 48497 26 27_Re: Habonim alum makes good12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:20:59 -0400537_ISO-8859-1 Ken wrote: > Elihu (or anyone else) did you see it in the print edition? I couldn't > find it.

It's in the Business section, which focuses on publishing on Mondays. In the national edition, it's on page C4.

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 48524 112 27_Re: Habonim alum makes good0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:36:57 -0400393_us-ascii Thanks, David.

Of course, that was the one section that I didn't check :-).

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: David Fleiss To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:20:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Habonim alum makes good



Ken wrote: > Elihu (or anyone else) did you see it in the print edition? I couldn't > find it. [...] 48637 46 27_Re: Habonim alum makes good12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:35:23 -0400569_ISO-8859-1 I originally thought about throwing in a remark about the Times hiding the article in the Business section where few of us would find it, but I thought better of it. Silly me. ;-)

David



Ken wrote: > Thanks, David. > > Of course, that was the one section that I didn't check :-). > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Fleiss > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Mon, 18 Jul 2005 21:20:59 -0400 > Subject: Re: Habonim alum makes good > > Ken wrote: > > Elihu (or anyone else) did you see it in the [...] 48684 56 23_Habonim alum makes good16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 00:16:42 -0400458_us-ascii In Habonet 2005-193, Ken Bob asks

> did you see it in the print edition? I couldn't find it.

New York Times 7/18/05 bottom of page C-4.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 48741 831 38_Fw: [Fwd: Fw: : Eternal Jewish Truths]11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Jul 2005 22:37:01 -0700435_iso-8859-1

I know some of you will enjoy some of this.

Steve



Subject: Fwd: [Fwd: Fw: : Eternal Jewish Truths]



Eternal Jewish Truths

* The Optimist sees the bagel, the pessimist sees the hole.



* If you can't say something nice, say it in Yiddish.



* If it tastes good, it's probably not kosher.



* Why spoil a good meal with a big tip? [...] 49573 521 27_Re: Habonim alum makes good13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:18:19 -0400608_us-ascii Here's what bothers me about this discussion. We are all taking on faith (because we know JJ and largely agree with his views) that the forward's critique of Luntz' work is correct and that Luntz is acting like a dunderhead. Luntz' survey was commissioned by the Israel Project, which has a vested interest in promoting the idea that the situation on campus is bad (from a generally pro-Israel point of view). But the Forward has an interest in debunking those kind of self perpetuating American Jewish myths. Moreover, JJ happens to be especially good at reading through and analyzing opinion [...] 50095 182 27_Re: Habonim alum makes good0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:29:49 -0400520_us-ascii David:

1 - I actually didn't see any comment on the article or the content - only that he is an alum. 2 - I agree with your thesis that we shouldn't circle the wagons around an alum just because he is an alum. There are a lot of opinions expressed here by alums that I strongly disagree with. 3 - I have read Luntz's work and some I agree with, other I don't. I think his tactics in this case are childish. As someone who lives and breathes politics, he should be able to handle criticism in a more [...] 50278 46 18_Re: Unhappy camper20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:29:08 -0700572_iso-8859-1 Anyone who went to Morasha would NOT have come to our Mosh. There was an orthodox camp Moshava, I believe in the Poconos.

Naomi



--------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 50325 110 18_Re: Unhappy camper0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:49:32 -0400472_us-ascii Moshava is the Bnei Akiva camp in PA

-----Original Message----- From: Naomi Goldberg Honor To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 19 Jul 2005 11:29:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Unhappy camper



Anyone who went to Morasha would NOT have come to our Mosh. There was an orthodox camp Moshava, I believe in the Poconos.

Naomi



Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. [...] 50436 58 18_Re: Unhappy camper0_15_Moshava@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:19:43 EDT529_US-ASCII I think B'nai Akiva uses the name Moshava for all of its camps. We often get mail, emails and phone calls for B'nai Akiva Moshava. Almost every year I have people who register their children thinking we are orthodox. Its funny how sometimes the confusion becomes apparent. I live in a somewhat Orthodox neighborhood so sometimes they are neighbors of mine. That's happened twice, most recently last year. (although the first girl went secular on them and ended up being friends with my very non-religious daughter) [...] 50495 38 23_Russian war college :-)11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 14:47:53 -0500340_us-ascii Russian War College



At the Russian War College, a general is a guest lecturer and tells the class of officers that the session will focus on potential problems and the resulting strategies. One of the officers in the class begins by asking the first question, "Will we have to fight in a World War Three, Sir?" [...] 50534 37 21_Third Time's a Charm!12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:06:43 -0700615_iso-8859-1 OK! NOw I am BEGGING!!! I got no response from my requests regarding finding the Glasner family--PLEASE_ ANYONE from Baltimore who knows ANYTHING!!! PLEASE email me privately--I can't find anyone- BUt I cannot believe the entire Glasner family dropped off the face of the earth! I got a phone number from Pearl in Jerusalem to call Baltimore- it was disconencted- But the strange thing is it turned out to eb the just-deceased father of someone I had emailed out of the blue whose name was David Glasner....I know someone in the Baltimore community can call Baltimore Hebrew Congregation- and maybe [...] 50572 442 34_Fw: A Must for Jewish People......11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:47:31 -0700513_iso-8859-1

From today's mail:

Steve



Nowhere have the flames of anti-Semitism burned more furiously than in France:

In Lyon, a car was rammed into a synagogue and set on fire. In Montpellier, the Jewish religious center was firebombed; so were synagogues in Strasbourg and Marseilles; so was a Jewish school in Creteil. A Jewish sports club in Toulouse was attacked with Molotov cocktails, and on the statue of Alfred Dreyfus in Paris, the words "Dirty Jew" were painted. [...] 51015 60 38_Re: Fw: A Must for Jewish People......0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:08:19 EDT554_US-ASCII Steve, I do wish you would include the URL and the source of the stuff you send to the list. You rarely do that, and it would help us assess the credibility of your sources.

Debbie

"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 51076 281 78_When Writing an Irate Letter to the Editor Is Just Not Enough - New York Times16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 00:30:46 -0400479_us-ascii For Ken Bob



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/18/business/media/18forward.html?pagewanted=print

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 51358 71 5_Bread12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:55:44 +0200590_us-ascii

Bread plays a paramount role in Judaic civilization and probably in many others I know less about. After the brachah on the wine and the candles on erev Shabbat, when there's a guest present they are honored with making the motzi/ah blessing on the Halah. I wrote "they" in the gender indeterminate mode because there are differences here between Orthodox and pluralistic practices - what else is new? Among our benighted Ortho brethren, women are relegated to blessing the candles not so much as an honor as a blot or a blemish on Eve, the mother of all mothers. But [...] 51430 292 44_Re: Sour-dough, or, a 'pita' (pizza) my mind12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 13:51:27 +0200599_ISO-8859-1 I identify with Amnon's critique of the blindnesses and limitations of Orthodoxy, not least in all that pertains to women. And yet, some of the author's tasteless digs leave me with little appetite for dis(this)/course. Yet I feel compelled to set some facts straight: Even according to the strictest Orthodoxy, a woman can say the 'motzi' for herself, for other women and for other men - she can also make Friday night kiddush for men (and if they mistakenly think her voice is 'erva' rather than 'arev,' she can recite it without melody. Candles: And all who toiled in preparation [...] 51723 484 38_Re: Fw: A Must for Jewish People......0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:25:20 +0000462_- Please, if you are going to send these things along, please provide source!! Where is this from? When is it from? Who wrote it??









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 52208 267 44_Re: Sour-dough, or, a 'pita' (pizza) my mind17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:36:49 +0200465_us-ascii



No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.9.0/50 - Release Date: 16/07/2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 52476 36 37_Settler wants to become a Palestinian0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 12:48:06 +0000361_- http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3114626,00.html

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52513 202 22_No terrorism in Canada8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 17:27:28 +0200675_us-ascii

'Terrorism'? Who's to say?: Informed sources National Post July 19, 2005

What follows is a memo distributed to CBC staff describing the CBC policy on use of the word 'terrorism.'

'Terrorist' and 'terrorism': Exercise extreme caution before using either word.

Avoid labeling any specific bombing or other assault as a "terrorist act" unless it's attributed (in a TV or Radio clip, or in a direct quote on the Web). For instance, we should refer to the deadly blast at that nightclub in Bali in October 2002 as an "attack," not as a "terrorist attack." The same applies to the [...] 52716 19 26_Re: No terrorism in Canada11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:18:05 +0000542_- This is similar to the policy that the Washington Post ombudsman has articulated. Of course the week after the London tube bombings he talked about terrorism in London, while the Post's coverage of the Netanya bombing did not...

I was also greatly disturbed about the headline on the article about one of the London bombers who had visited Israel - most of the article discussed his visit to Pakistan for indoctrination, yet the headline seemed to implicate Israel. The "eye on the post" folks certainly have a point some days. [...] 52736 129 24_Israel's Frontier Thesis13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:35:22 -0400623_us-ascii Israel's Frontier Thesis BY DAVID TWERSKY July 20, 2005 Walking briskly through the American Capitol last week with several Israeli guests, I paused to consider Emanuel Gottlieb Leutze's brilliant rendering of American history, "Westward the Course of Empire Takes Its Way." The 1861 oil study shows a wagon train of settlers descending from the Sierra Nevada range to the Golden Gate near what would become San Francisco. "Look," I told my guests, "a painting about Israel leaving the Gaza Strip." Only upon close study does it become clear that the push is toward the Pacific, not back toward the Atlantic. [...] 52866 50 26_Re: No terrorism in Canada8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:35:14 +0200569_us-ascii Indeed. What's a guy have to do to get called a terrorist these days?

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 5:18 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: No terrorism in Canada



This is similar to the policy that the Washington Post ombudsman has articulated. Of course the week after the London tube bombings he talked about terrorism in London, while the Post's coverage of the Netanya bombing did not... [...] 52917 22 38_Re: Fw: A Must for Jewish People......12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:36:51 -0400543_us-ascii Steve's "news" article is at least 3 years old, assuming that this web site is its original source.

http://www.smolanim.com/articles/anti-semitism.html

David

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 52940 174 28_Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:44:15 -0700611_iso-8859-1 To David

In order for your articulate, lengthy musings to make any sense whatsoever, one has to buy the idea that Israel has been shaped by the same expansionistic forces that shaped America. Admittedly, there are elements within Israel that follow such urgings and desires, and that is what the troubles of the moment are about; containment of the desires of the fringe for the needs of the larger society. But to go back and revisionistically paint the history of the Jewish people as goldminers going into California or other such nonsense is silly, unjustified and insulting. It is a [...] 53115 260 26_Re: No terrorism in Canada11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:59:44 -0700373_iso-8859-1 No terrorism in CanadaJon

I find the humor in this concerning the effort to find out if "gunmen" actually or possibly included a woman or transgender or possible cross-dresser or perhaps a bisexual. The next memo will discuss the alternative correct-speak. "Gunpeople"? "Gunpersons"? "Gundividuals"? While these Romans are fiddling, the world burns. [...] 53376 447 38_Fw: Fw: A Must for Jewish People......11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:15:31 -0700498_iso-8859-1

Fellow 'netters

re: Article about France and Jews

I had no reason to suspect any of it was made up, so I sent what I received. I hadn't noticed the information was missing, though I sensed I'd heard some of it before. Apparently, it is about three years old, and while not up-to-the-minute news, it, in my mind, is all valid. When I find more recent numbers and events from Europe and France in particular, I will send what I have (with dates and authorship). [...] 53824 133 38_Re: Fw: A Must for Jewish People......11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:31:20 -0700435_iso-8859-1 Will do, whenever possible.

Thanks

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: DebALev@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Fw: A Must for Jewish People......



Steve, I do wish you would include the URL and the source of the stuff you send to the list. You rarely do that, and it would help us assess the credibility of your sources. [...] 53958 80 10_Lost Logic11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:46:40 -0700457_iso-8859-1 David

I am totally lost on this one, for starters. How does this make sense? Perhaps if you outlined the steps you took to arrive at the concllusion, it could help.

Steve

David Fleiss wrote:

> 1) I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I insist on believing that > most Muslims are not terror supporters for the same reason that I > believe that most Jews are not torture supporters: because they/we are not. > [...] 54039 72 11_Re: sharing11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 10:46:53 -0700639_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" To: Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2005 1:10 PM Subject: Re: sharing



> 1) I can't speak for anybody but myself, but I insist on believing that > most Muslims are not terror supporters for the same reason that I believe > that most Jews are not torture supporters: because they/we are not. > > 2) Some Palestinians were happy that America was struck on 9/11 because > America supplies the money and the hardware that supports the Israeli > occupation of Palestine. Some Israelis and American supporters of Israel > were [...] 54112 41 14_Re: Lost Logic12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:02:29 -0400352_us-ascii I think the missing piece may be in the rest of the message, which you sent back to the list with no comment seconds after you sent this message.

Heidi asked: Why do Americans insist on believing that most Muslims are not terror supporters? That was the question to which my sentence (quoted in your message below) was a response. [...] 54154 59 44_Re: Sour-dough, or, a 'pita' (pizza) my mind0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:21:11 EDT405_US-ASCII Thank you Jessie. You response was one that I will keep in order to reread and learn from it. For all of you chalah makers out there, both female and male, my daughter-in-law sometimes uses other grains for her chalah. Sometimes Spelt, sometimes Kamut. They make a more "substantial" bread. Both are very tasty although I prefer Kumut. It is so fulfilling that one slice will do it for you. [...] 54214 63 28_Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 20:45:41 -0400703_iso-8859-1 David,

A well-written piece, in my view. A well-researched lesson in American history too, I would say. I especially enjoyed the detailed quotes from John L. O'Sullivan's doctrine of "manifest destiny."

I don't disagree at all about the seismic proportions of the Israeli disengagement for the proportionally short-lived Israeli history and for the proportionally small territory that Israel encompasses as compared to the continental-scale expanses one has to reckon with when dealing with American history. I think these vastly different dimensions and proportions also make comparisons and parallels between the two situations difficult to make and to understand in all [...] 54278 70 28_Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 21 Jul 2005 01:14:06 +0000622_- I'm very sorry, but I have to...The American Civil War was 1861 - 1865. (No big difference, I know, but may as well correct.)



> David, > > A well-written piece, in my view. A well-researched lesson in American > history too, I would say. I especially enjoyed the detailed quotes from John > L. O'Sullivan's doctrine of "manifest destiny." > > I don't disagree at all about the seismic proportions of the Israeli > disengagement for the proportionally short-lived Israeli history and for the > proportionally small territory that Israel encompasses as compared to the > continental-scale expanses one [...] 54349 32 28_Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 20 Jul 2005 21:42:18 -0400655_iso-8859-1 Thanks, Richard. ___ |Y| ^^^

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis



> I'm very sorry, but I have to...The American Civil War was 1861 - 1865. > (No big difference, I know, but may as well correct.)

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 54382 122 53_Sisengagement and its aftermath by Robert O. Freedman11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:37:34 -0500619_us-ascii DISENGAGEMENT AND ITS AFTERMATH:CHALLENGES TO THE FUTURE OF ISRAEL AND THE PEACE PROCESS by

Dr. Robert O. Freedman





INTRODUCTION



I have been visiting Israel on a regular basis since the summer of 1960,when I traveled there as a college student, but never in the past 45 years have I seen the country so bitterly divided, as during my most recent visit in June 2005, with threats of civil war in the air,and Israeli cabinet Ministers being fitted with flak jackets. It is not just a matter of Hawk versus Dove on the wisdom of pulling out of the settlements and [...] 54505 35 41_Within the Gates/ Fouad Ajami/ USNews.com11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 21 Jul 2005 11:42:14 -0500550_us-ascii Within the Gates

'The whole Arab world was dangerous for me; I went to London," an Egyptian Islamist, Yasser Sirri, a man 41 years of age, with three convictions against him in his native land, recently said of his decision to move to England. An opponent of the autocracy of President Hosni Mubarak, Sirri had initially fled to Yemen, then to Sudan. He found refuge in London, where he runs an "Islamic observation center" and carries on with the "holy struggle" against "ungodly" Arab regimes and their supporters in the West. [...] 54541 377 39_The Days Democracy Died?/ Daniel Gordis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:50:58 -0500572_ISO-8859-1 There was a moment, albeit a brief one, when I'd imagined we were done with parent-teacher conferences. At least for one kid. She was, after all, a senior in high school. And we'd already had the annual meeting for her senior year. So, we were done, I assumed. Happily.

But I was wrong. The high school meetings were, indeed, behind us, but what I hadn't counted on was the possibility that the army, too, could have meetings that parents have to attend. Or at least are encouraged to attend. But apparently it does. Talia, like a number of kids in [...] 54919 4993 14_Re: Sour Dough12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 15:57:19 +0200328_us-ascii

Jessica Thanks for taking my spoof seriously. Your response though, sounds like it appeared in an Art Scroll book for women. You usually aren't taken in by such shallow embroidery, How does Deb sign off ? "Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag But Noa and Barr and I will come for some Challah [...] 59913 163 14_Re: Sour Dough12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:59:08 +0200583_iso-8859-1 Amnon Mamash no Art Scroll aesthetic or values in my writing - how insulting! Among other things, they're Lita'im - I'm a Chasid by descent and personality. Also, they have absolutely no sense of humor, and overworked super-egos. No neshuma - lots of chumras etc. And since when does AS put a 'hekhsher' on 'la'avodah vlamelacha'. But never mind. If you see what I wrote as apologetics, you just didn't get my drift. I'll look at the attachment later, and we'll also make a challah date. Perhaps we could invite some friends from Yad bYad. A real and virtual Shabbat [...] 60077 133 14_Re: Sour Dough12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 18:03:14 +0200515_iso-8859-1 PS Amnon - I take you very seriously! ----- Original Message ----- From: Amnon Hadary To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 3:57 PM Subject: Re: Sour Dough





Jessica Thanks for taking my spoof seriously. Your response though, sounds like it appeared in an Art Scroll book for women. You usually aren't taken in by such shallow embroidery, How does Deb sign off ? "Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag But Noa and Barr and I will come for some Challah [...] 60211 26 18_hebrew sheet music13_Joel Winograd15_mail@JELACO.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:25:57 -0500380_US-ASCII Hi all,

We have a family band consisting of French horn, Eflat horn, Bflat clarinet, trumpet, trombone, Chromatic harmonica (C). We are looking for sheet music with ensemble arrangements of Hebrew folk music. We can find material for piano/guitar but then there is a lot of work in arranging the ensemble pieces. Anyone have a suggestion as to where to look? [...] 60238 831 36_Fw: something we all should know. jf11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:44:55 -0700363_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Klein To: Steve Klein Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 9:44 AM Subject: Fw: something we all should know. jf





----- Original Message ----- From: Richard and Charline Lamb To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 3:27 PM Subject: Fw: something we all should know. jf [...] 61070 126 74_Fw: 8 Weeks Left of Landmark Exhibit, "350 Years of American Jewish Life".11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 09:46:18 -0700599_UTF-8 350 Years of American Jewish History: Greetings From Home ----- Original Message ----- From: info@ajhs.org To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 8:34 AM Subject: 8 Weeks Left of Landmark Exhibit, "350 Years of American Jewish Life".











------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 61197 291 36_[QUAR]Barry Chamish. The Anti-Moses?11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 10:45:49 -0600570_us-ascii Dearest Chevre and Jon,

Please debunk this guy or I'll have to get my foreskin sewed back on and have an unBarMitzvah. According to him, The Land o' Milk and Honey has a curdled and bitter history. He must be a self-hating Jew or just plain nuts. Right? Jews don't do bad things, do they? At least not deliberately and systematically like the fascisti. Right? Ben Gurion would not have made a deal with the Nazis to exterminate Hungarian Jews, would he? Chamish must be a conspiracy nut. A wacko. Sick. The kind of person who would believe that The [...] 61489 873 40_Re: Fw: something we all should know. jf0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:17:43 +0000550_- I hope everyone is aware that a product available at almost all grocery stores and many other stores is extremely toxic. Please forward to everyone that Draino, when digested, will cause all sorts of health problems.









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 62363 64 40_Re: Fw: something we all should know. jf11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:20:55 -0700582_iso-8859-1 Richard

Please explain, if you will, the humor of your comment. (Unless it is the mis-spelling of Drano). I am sure that if give a step-by-step tour of your mental process, I think most of us will learn to understand how a warning to safeguard the health of our children could become the object of spoof, derision, or light-as-air manner. Is it the derision part? (All of us should already know about all dangerous products?) Is it that the danger of a product such as this should be automatically understood, even by the dumbest of nitwits? If these are the [...] 62428 104 8_Fw: evil11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 12:08:13 -0700573_iso-8859-1 I've never done this before- commenting on my own letter, but this morning's newspaper had an incisive letter pertaining exactly to what I wrote: LA Times July 22, 05 Author is a Muslim. I will be able to send his name and exact quotes later. His "criticism" of the newsbytes that have been put out by Islamic groups before and since the July 7 bombings in London is that Muslims are fooling themselves and everyone else when they quote the Qoran as stating that "the killing of innocent people is forbidden". The writer states that the full version of the [...] 62533 51 23_Another Alum Makes Good0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 17:39:10 -0400330_us-ascii If it wasn't enough that JJ Goldberg got ink in the NY Times this week, now one of our own, Klezmer bandleader Ben Laden of Philadelphia (I wrote that just to get the Moshniks angry) is featured in Jewcy. You have got to read the article, but let me just give you a little tease. Does his name remind you of anyone? [...] 62585 20 16_dc-balto kumzits19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 22:04:21 -0500463_us-ascii some progress has been made on setting a date and other logistics for the kumsitz. anyone who would like to help, please email me.

lisa flyer marsh

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 62606 46 20_Re: dc-balto kumzits12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 20:30:03 -0700641_iso-8859-1 What is the date????-sue

--- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote:

> some progress has been made on setting a date and > other logistics for the kumsitz. anyone who would > like to help, please email me. > > lisa flyer marsh > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...] 62653 162 8_Fw: evil11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 22 Jul 2005 23:41:59 -0700553_iso-8859-1 Subject: Re: evil



> As promised: > > LA Times Friday July 22, 05 > > Opinion/Editorials > > Author: Irshad Manji "Is Islam to Blame?" Credit: Book from St. > Martin's Press: "The Trouble with Islam Today" 2005 > > The exact passage: > > ". . . . I don't understand how moderate Muslim leaders can reject, flat > out, the notion that religion may also play a part in those bombings. > What makes them so sure that Islam is an innocent bystander? > What makes them SOUND so sure is literalism. That's the trouble with Islam [...] 62816 53 20_Re: dc-balto kumzits0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 13:18:28 +0000594_- Waiting for Judy... You think that's a good name for a play?



> What is the date????-sue > > --- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote: > > > some progress has been made on setting a date and > > other logistics for the kumsitz. anyone who would > > like to help, please email me. > > > > lisa flyer marsh > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > > courses and > > an [...] 62870 180 20_Re: dc-balto kumzits13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:51:57 -0400712_us-ascii Judy is waiting for a final check of dates from Haim. Judy

rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

>Waiting for Judy... You think that's a good name for a play? > > > > >>What is the date????-sue >> >>--- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote: >> >> >> >>>some progress has been made on setting a date and >>>other logistics for the kumsitz. anyone who would >>>like to help, please email me. >>> >>>lisa flyer marsh >>> >>> >>> >>> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>>The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >>>Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >>>a service of Hebrew College, which offers online >>>courses and >>>an [...] 63051 265 20_Re: dc-balto kumzits16_Esther & Richard23_cohensteacy@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 18:33:25 -0400352_iso-8859-1 Sorry - not nearly so good a name as just, "Waiting for Judy" Although, "Dates from Haim" isn't bad...

ECohen Mosh ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: Re: dc-balto kumzits



Judy is waiting for a final check of dates from Haim. Judy [...] 63317 55 20_Re: dc-balto kumzits0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 19:10:29 EDT525_US-ASCII Sorry chevre I haven't done dates since Yotvata (and I switched out of that anaf to work with the chocolate milk) Judy send me your options and I will fit it into Amnon's "But is it Jewish Tour" Hiam (dateless in NY)

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 63373 44 6_Shiron0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 24 Jul 2005 02:30:23 +0000316_- It seems I have volunteered my self to put together a shiron for the Balto/Wash kumzitz.

Please, if you can suggest songs send titles my way. You need not include lyrics though if you know 'em you can send 'em along as well. I have 33 pages as of now and would like to make it as complete as possible. [...] 63418 31 10_Re: Shiron19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 21:38:58 -0500402_ISO646-US richard, what format do you want anything in? also, maybe you could suggest categories.

i have a small shiron that i helped put together a year or two ago for my shule. i can send the contents page or the actual song pages. would you want any of that?

lisa

>From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET >Date: Sat Jul 23 21:30:23 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Shiron [...] 63450 452 10_Re: Shiron0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 24 Jul 2005 05:04:55 +0000285_- I doing it in Microsoft Word but I can switch it if I have to.

I've included an index for what I have already.

(BTW- It occurred to me that some people may like Hebrew songs, I don't and I don't know any so if someone wants them they should make their own shiron) [...] 63903 408 84_Fw: Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel at the Duke University "Counter Terrorism Speak out"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:42:22 -0700564_Windows-1252

Details on Brigitte Gabriel to follow immediately.

Steve



Subject: Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel at the Duke University "Counter Terrorism Speak out"



Remarks of Brigitte Gabriel

delivered at the Duke University Counter Terrorism Speak out

October 14, 2004

I'm proud and honored to stand here today as a Lebanese speaking for Israel,the only democracy in the Middle East. As someone who was raised in an Arabic country I want to give you a glimpse into the heart of the Arabic world. [...] 64312 185 31_Fw: "Who is Brigette Gabriel? "11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:43:13 -0700736_Windows-1252

As promised

Steve



Subject: "Who is Brigette Gabriel? "



Several readers have sent me messages inquiring about "Who is Brigette Gabriel?" So here is her bio from her own website, for your information:

Brigitte Gabriel's PROFESSIONAL PROFILE

Ms. Gabriel began her career as the News Anchor for "World News" the evening news broadcast for Middle East Television seen weeknights throughout Israel, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Cyprus and Lebanon. She is the former Production Coordinator for ARD (German Television) in South Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank. She is also the former Satellite Video Distribution Coordinator for METV/WTN (Worldwide Television News) studios [...] 64498 95 28_Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 24 Jul 2005 15:28:26 +0200596_us-ascii Steve, What I find refreshing about Habonet is that every once in a while an old/new voice joins the choir, bringing new insights to our attention. I find that when that is matched by a modulated voice and a practiced essayist's hand that we are all rewarded. Also, in my opinion (not so humble,) David Twersky is one of the most measured, informed, analytical and committed practitioners of the writers craft we have. That is why I feel that when you characterized his piece " Israel's Frontier Thesis" (July 20,) as nonsense, silly, unjustified and insulting you are reverting to [...] 64594 150 28_Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:11:29 -0400674_iso-8859-1 Gee thanks, Amonon. Check's in the mail.

________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh on behalf of Amnon Hadary Sent: Sun 7/24/2005 9:28 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis



Steve, What I find refreshing about Habonet is that every once in a while an old/new voice joins the choir, bringing new insights to our attention. I find that when that is matched by a modulated voice and a practiced essayist's hand that we are all rewarded. Also, in my opinion (not so humble,) David Twersky is one of the most measured, informed, analytical and committed practitioners of the [...] 64745 168 28_Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 24 Jul 2005 22:20:00 -0700617_iso-8859-1

Amnon

I thought David and put this one to bed a while ago. He told me to lighten up, and I told him I would, while apologising for coming across stronger than warranted. If you know something I don't about this matter, please let me know.

Steve



Subject: Re: Israel's Frontier Thesis



Steve, What I find refreshing about Habonet is that every once in a while an old/new voice joins the choir, bringing new insights to our attention. I find that when that is matched by a modulated voice and a practiced essayist's hand that we are all rewarded. Also, [...] 64914 17 28_Disengagement watch/ Haaretz11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:29:08 -0500440_us-ascii http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/disengagement.jhtml?contrassID=23

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 64932 62 17_Mosh Camp Picture0_15_Moshava@AOL.COM29_Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:22:43 EDT532_US-ASCII This past weekend a great discovery was made at Mosh! We discovered a treasure of past years' camp pictures. I am referring to the pictures of the whole machaneh together! We have from 1988 up to 2005. There are a couple of sessions missing here and there but for the most part, we have them all. Its a pity to keep them up at camp when some of you out there might be interested in purchasing one (cheap, cheap!). Email me and I will tell you if we have the year/session you are looking for. Buy one for your children [...] 64995 32 18_al-ahram editorial11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:26:22 +0000654_- Found this interesting piece linked from the NYTimes which is germaine to the discussion here regarding the need for Arabs and Muslims to speak out about problems in their neighborhood.

Orginal URL is http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2005/752/ed.htm

A betrayal of sacrifice

No one expected a full-scale confrontation to develop between the Palestinian Authority (PA) and Hamas ahead of Israel's withdrawal from Gaza. True, some had predicted conflict, but only after the withdrawal as the PA began to impose law and order. What occurred in Gaza was not only tragic, it betrays the sacrifices and struggle of the Palestinian people. [...] 65028 204 22_Re: al-ahram editorial0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 08:34:20 -0700582_iso-8859-1 Gee, this sounds reasonable and insightful. Who'd a thunk? ;-)

Sharon









Noam Stopak Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/26/2005 07:26 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: al-ahram editorial



Found this interesting piece linked from the NYTimes which is germaine to the discussion here regarding the need for Arabs and Muslims to speak out about problems in their neighborhood. [...] 65233 73 56_NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:48:26 +0000530_- Hi Jon,

This seems up your alley. Does this agree with your sources?

Noam

July 26, 2005 Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit By STEVEN ERLANGER

JERUSALEM, July 25 - The security forces of the Palestinian Authority are divided, weak, overstaffed, badly motivated and underarmed, and more attention must be paid to building up institutions rather than personalities, says the first independent survey of the complicated Palestinian security environment since the death of Yasir Arafat. [...] 65307 197 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:11:23 +0200549_us-ascii Thanks Noam. Interesting stuff. What I've heard from people who know about such things is that this article is, if anything, optimistic. You can get 3 to 1 that there will be a full-blown civil war in the PA after the withdrawal, if the two sides decide to try to implement the Road Map or if there are national elections in the PA and Hamas either wins or looses. The opportunities for Hamas or IJ to take the withdrawal from Gaza under fire may be too much for them to resist. In which case, of course, Zahal will respond massively. [...] 65505 61 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 18:37:17 +0000409_- H Jon,

Despite popular belief, I never was all that warm and fuzzy about peace, though some years I've been more optimistic than others.

I think both the Palestinians and Israelis will have their hands full dealing with their own and each others extremists once the withdrawal is underway.

As Carol(e?) King once wrote "on the whole it was a very good year... for the undertaker". [...] 65567 71 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:47:39 -0400588_iso-8859-1 Dear Jon,

From what you say, my impression is the following: 1) You don't believe in peace one way or another, Road Map or no Road Map, and even wose that that, you don't really want peace anyway. You have bosated more than once on this list that you and your association (usually still called a kibbutz, even though the mutual bonds linking members are more of the type of a co-housing cooperative in the US) are benefitting nicely financially from the prolonged state of war in the region. 2) You still hope the disengagement will ultimately fail, and especially [...] 65639 114 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:33:55 +0200406_us-ascii Well Yuval, since you asked for a correction, you're wrong.

You obviously don't know anything about 1) what Sasa is like. A housing cooperative in the US! I like that one. 2) how I feel about the disengagement since I've never written about it. For the record, I'm in favor. 3) what my views on Israeli politics are in general. By the way, Limor Livnat has voted for the disengagement [...] 65754 240 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:41:52 -0700392_iso-8859-1 Not being someone who is politically acute, I don't understand why the sides don't ask the UN forces to come in and help with this...Shouldn't it be, or isn't it, their job to promote peace around the world? If there was any place where they could be used, it seems Gaza would be it..But no one has mentioned this possibility. I assume it is because the UN is such crap...sue [...] 65995 161 22_Re: al-ahram editorial12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 12:54:53 -0700435_iso-8859-1 Yes, Sharon- for once we agree on something!- A voice for cooperation--But my question is this--what is the underlying "subtext" of this point-of-view? Is it "Let's ccoperate so we can get organized to kill all Israelis"?--or is it, "Let's get organized so we can give the Palestinian people a chance for self- determination"?...It sounds like the latter, and maybe that's why there were bombs in Sharm-el-Sheikh...sue [...] 66157 24 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 15:56:03 -0400458_us-ascii Yuval,

I know that Jon can (and almost certainly will) respond for himself, but I wanted to respond to your message myself.

Jon and I don't see eye to eye very often, but I think you're misrepresenting his views. He is deeply cynical about the prospects for peace (he would probably say "realistic" rather than "deeply cynical"), but I don't think he has ever written, nor suggested, that he is opposed to peace or disengagement. [...] 66182 910 31_Fw: And Then They Came After Us13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:56:20 +0200536_iso-8859-1 July 22, 2005, 8:16 a.m. And Then They Came After Us

We're at war. How about acting like it?

Victor Davis Hanson

Military Historian, Stanford University





First the terrorists of the Middle East went after the Israelis. From 1967 we witnessed 40 years of bombers, child murdering, airline hijacking, suicide murdering, and gratuitous shooting. We in the West usually cried crocodile tears, and then came up with all sorts of reasons to allow such Middle Eastern killers a pass. [...] 67093 154 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:33:55 -0400646_iso-8859-1 Jon,

Thanks for setting the record straight on 1) Your feeling about disengagement. Nice to hear that. 2) Limor Livnat's voting record on disengagement. Maybe I should have written Silvan Shalom instead of Livnat, to give a more plural character to the so-called "Likud rebels" on disengagement.

The discussion about kibbutz development and character is not really germane to this discussion. We can take it up another time. I don't know much about Sasa's specific situation, but I certainly know many examples that fit very well the characterization I used. There are some pretty serious and nice housing co-ops in [...] 67248 180 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 23:43:52 +0200351_us-ascii Ok Yuval. No hard feelings and all that.

Just so you know, Sasa is still a kibbutz in the classic sense: no privatization, no differential salaries, no private home ownership, nobody keeps their salary and we still have a total social coverage. Chadar Ochel and moadon still open. Of course, it helps that we can afford all this! [...] 67429 193 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:07:13 -0400638_iso-8859-1 Thanks, Jon. Nice to hear about Sasa's success. behatzlachah in the future too. ___ |Y| ^^^

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Baum" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:43 PM Subject: Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit



> Ok Yuval. No hard feelings and all that. > > Just so you know, Sasa is still a kibbutz in the classic sense: no > privatization, no differential salaries, no private home ownership, nobody > keeps their salary and we still have a total social coverage. Chadar Ochel > and moadon still open. Of course, it [...] 67623 57 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 17:21:25 -0400599_iso-8859-1 David,

Thanks. I have responded to Jon too. I wasn't suggesting people are "opposed" to peace. Even the most rabid right-wingers will never agree that they are opposed to peace. Everyone wants and loves peace, of course, if the matter is just put like that. The question is what one really feels inside about some political peace movements or initiatives, or what one is willing to give up in order to advance a certain process. The upcoming disengagement if a very useful measure of these "feelings": it is initiated and spearheaded by none other than Arik Sharon; it is not [...] 67681 531 58_One in four Muslims sympathises with motives of terrorists8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 00:38:15 +0200525_Windows-1252 I think the Brits have a problem.

Jon

One in four Muslims sympathises with motives of terrorists By Anthony King (Filed: 23/07/2005)

The group portrait of British Muslims painted by YouGov's survey for The Daily Telegraph is at once reassuring and disturbing, in some ways even alarming.

The vast majority of British Muslims condemn the London bombings but a substantial minority are clearly alienated from modern British society and some are prepared to justify terrorist acts. [...] 68213 507 23_[BULK] Linda Hirschhorn16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:29:15 -0400595_us-ascii

People here, esp. those who know Linda Hirschhorn, might find this interview in a German online magazine, of interest. Does anyone remember her involvement in a "labour Zionist youth movement"?

SOURCE http://www.aviva-berlin.de/aviva/content_music_backstage.php?id=5726





AVIVA-BERLIN.de im Juli 2005:

Interview with Linda Hirschhorn Sarah Ross

The American singer-songwriter is multi-talented and the best example of a leading lady. Read more about her life as a professional musician and her experiences as a political activist. [...] 68721 93 34_attention chanicim of Amir Flesher0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:35:24 EDT386_US-ASCII

Hi This is Sam Flesher

Hi son Amir was a Madrich at Tavor in 1996 and 97

He needs to reconnect with three of his ex-chanichim

They are.

Joe Harow -Lansing

Rachel Frey Ann Arbor Sonny Turski Woodstock Ill

Any information would be appreciated

Amir can be reached at 413 774 6095 - He does not have e mail access now. [...] 68815 69 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 20:37:29 EDT611_US-ASCII

In a message dated 07/26/2005 3:42:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

Not being someone who is politically acute, I don't understand why the sides don't ask the UN forces to come in and help with this...



Because Israel does not want the UN



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 68885 1583 58_Extremists put pulsa denura death curse on PM Ariel Sharon13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:06:58 -0400 70469 60 27_Re: [BULK] Linda Hirschhorn16_Sharon Weissbach12_sw@IGLOU.COM31_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:33:30 -0400542_iso-8859-1 Lee Shai and I attended Machaneh Bonim Aleph with Linda in Hunter, NY (on the Tel Ari site). We recently had the good luck to reconnect and fell right into a comfortable camaraderie based on a shared history and wonderful memories.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 70530 31 27_Re: [BULK] Linda Hirschhorn0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:35:43 EDT595_US-ASCII In a message dated 7/26/05 8:30:25 PM, elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET writes:

<< People here, esp. those who know Linda Hirschhorn, might find this interview in a German online magazine, of interest. Does anyone remember her involvement in a "labour Zionist youth movement"?

SOURCE http://www.aviva-berlin.de/aviva/content_music_backstage.php?id=5726 >>

I remember Linda being in Bonot at Galil when I was in amelim/chotrim in the very early '60s. If I'm not mistaken, she has a brother Larry who was also a Galil camper and who sent his kids later on. Hank Albert [...] 70562 45 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 04:47:21 +0000330_- Jon stated: ". ..and praying that he'll be safe until the following Shabbat."

And Yuval said: "...I sincerely hope and pray that your son and our children..."

I was just wondering if asking for things from a nonexistent deity is really helpful. I have found great success in sacrificing goats to Zeus myself. [...] 70608 70 36_Re: Moshava Pictures 1985 to present11_Sam Bergman22_sambergman@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 03:47:04 -0400558_us-ascii Tammy,

I'll pay Mosh $10 rental for each of the pictures for one day. I will scan them for posterity and return them to you to resell to the first bidder.

Sam

At 12:00 AM 7/26/2005 -0400, you wrote: >This past weekend a great discovery= was made at Mosh! We discovered a >treasure of past years' camp pictures. I=20= am referring to the pictures >of the whole machaneh together! We have from 19= 88 up to 2005. There are >a couple of sessions missing here and there but for= the most part, we >have them all. Its a pity to [...] 70679 21 26_[BULK] Steve Klein posting16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:28:23 -0400548_ISO-8859-1 In Habonet #2005-195 (19-20 July), Steve Klein forwarded a piece of anti-French screed. Steve, what is its provenance? Whence did you clip it? Who is the author? In short, it is undated and is origins unidentified. Please comply. Thanks.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 70701 104 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:49:41 EDT367_US-ASCII

In a message dated 07/27/2005 7:28:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET writes:

In Habonet #2005-195 (19-20 July), Steve Klein forwarded a piece of anti-French screed. Steve, what is its provenance? Whence did you clip it? Who is the author? In short, it is undated and is origins unidentified. Please comply. Thanks. [...] 70806 1499 73_Haaretz - Israel News - France reports sharp drop in anti-Semitic attacks13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:34:50 -0400 72306 56 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:26:46 -0700317_iso-8859-1 Elihu

"Please comply"?

What is happening over there in your computer room? Did it get so boring for you that you were moved to use this kind of language? Where could you have even picked it up? The last time I saw someone use such an expression, it was in a lawsuit or a bad WWII movie. [...] 72363 716 28_Fw: Subject: Oprah's Message11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:34:33 -0700361_windows-1255

'Netters

I have no idea who "k" is, nor do I think K wrote the letter. It somehow got "unsigned". Howvever, I do think it is well written, and echoes my feelings on Oprah's contribution to world understanding. I am sending it along to you, and I am hoping she gets a few of these letters that are in reaction to her callowness. [...] 73080 138 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 06:41:21 -0700505_iso-8859-1 Richard

We don't worship God to elevate God; We worhip to elevate ourselves.

You have, apparently, found other ways of elevating yourself, and that is commendable.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 9:47 PM Subject: Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit



Jon stated: ". ..and praying that he'll be safe until the following Shabbat." [...] 73219 60 27_Brilliant Private Eye cover8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:23:07 +0200431_US-ASCII

http://www.private-eye.co.uk/covers/1137/1137pe.jpg

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 73280 1017 69_Fw: The NEWS from ISRAEL on Monday, July 25, 2005 and 18 Tammuz, 576511_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 07:31:07 -0700457_Windows-1252

Interesting articles, especially the Teva deal. Ihad no idea they were so large!

Steve



Subject: The NEWS from ISRAEL on Monday, July 25, 2005 and 18 Tammuz, 5765



The NEWS from ISRAEL

* Sharon to PA: "Expect a tougher response to terror after pullout!" * Forces may not expel Gaza 'squatters' * Intel to build $4 billion plant in Kiryat Gat * Teva closes largest deal in Israel's history [...] 74298 6067 30_How Arafat Destroyed Palestine16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 22:55:14 -0400645_ISO-8859-1

The Atlantic Monthly | September 2005

In a Ruined Country

How Yasir Arafat destroyed Palestine

by David Samuels

.....

The war for Jerusalem that began after Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak's failed peace offer at Camp David in the summer of 2000 has become the subject of legends and fables, each one of which is colored in the distinctive shades of the political spectrum from which it emerged: Yasir Arafat tried to control the violence. Arafat was behind the violence. Arafat was the target of the violence, which he deflected onto the Israelis. Depending on which day of the week [...] 80366 63 14_Arafat article8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 18:13:38 +0200456_US-ASCII

Thanks Elihu! Tell me (us), are you a subscriber to The Atlantic?

Jon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 80430 88 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 08:29:37 -0700651_us-ascii Yes, and that is part of the problem.

Sharon







Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/26/2005 05:37 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit



In a message dated 07/26/2005 3:42:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes: Not being someone who is politically acute, I don't understand why the sides don't ask the UN forces to come in and help with this... Because Israel does not want the UN [...] 80519 127 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 11:59:09 -0400522_iso-8859-1 Richard,

How do you know who I pray for and how do I pray for it, when these things are not clear even to me, myself? Most of the time my feelings are very similar to yours, I assume, about a completely nonexistent entity. And yet, as a simple mortal, all I know is that most things in this world are out of my control. As such, all that is left to me, especially in matters of life and death, is to "hope and pray." Do you know of a better English expression that would in the future eliminate the [...] 80647 30 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:06:59 -0400379_us-ascii The moon must be in the seventh house, and Jupiter aligned with Mars, because I agree with Steve. Elihu, we may be reading too much into your comment ("Please comply."), but it comes across as particularly rude.

In any event, within a few hours after Steve sent his message (and probably in the same digest -- tsk, tsk, Elihu), I sent the following message: [...] 80678 24 32_Re: Fw: Subject: Oprah's Message12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:15:10 -0400463_us-ascii Steve,

Do you honestly believe that Oprah is personally responsible for everything in the magazine that is named for her? Is Michael Jordan personally responsible for every pair of Air Jordans manufactured by Nike and every morsel that is served in the restaurants that are named for him? Is Magic Johnson personally responsible for every film shown in his theaters and every unpopped kernel of popcorn sold in the lobbies of those theaters? [...] 80703 51 14_aprtment in TA13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:10:21 EDT468_US-ASCII Dear List,

We are in need of an apartment in Tel Aviv for the month of September. Any help, suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Steven Hancoff

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 80755 145 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:49:56 EDT318_US-ASCII



"Please comply"?

What is happening over there in your computer room? Did it get so boring for you that you were moved to use this kind of language? Where could you have even picked it up? The last time I saw someone use such an expression, it was in a lawsuit or a bad WWII movie. [...] 80901 98 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:09:33 +0000464_- You could always just say, "hope."

I saw a fellow on C-SPAN a few weeks ago (I am sorry that I don't either remember his name or the book he was plugging) who felt that the religious community in the US was getting too abusive and suggested that intolerance was the best response to constant religious dogmatism. One of his suggestions was to insert the name 'Zeus' every time the word 'god' would be used (i.e. "Zeus bless you," "Zeus willing"...). [...] 81000 221 25_Re: metaphysical politics13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 16:23:21 -0400639_iso-8859-1 Richard,

I agree with you. I really don't care very much either for god or for Zeus. Problem is, when you not just hope for something, but you actively and consciously wish for something, ask for something with your heart's purest intentions, it seems to me to be more than just hoping. Should I write instead then "I hope and wish, from my heart?" Would that be more palatable to someone's secular political sensibilities? ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:09 PM Subject: Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are [...] 81222 31 3_MBI15_Schwartz Family23_arava_eilat@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 00:25:19 +0300521_windows-1255 I just returned from another night of showing people the stars on Eilat's Tielet. Tonight a guard with a M-1 stopped by to admire Jupiter and I asked about the group he was protecting. He told me it was some group called MBI. I then called over a bunch of kids who were wearing HaboDror shirts and started talking to them. I told them about my KM bet in Israel and the 23 Workshop, although it was to long ago to mean anything to them. One asked me if I knew Janet Pinsky and I replied, no, I knew Gail [...] 81254 127 7_Re: MBI0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:33:51 -0700708_us-ascii I knew Janet Pinsky. Janet, are you out there?

Sharon Gates









Schwartz Family Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 07/27/2005 02:25 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: MBI



I just returned from another night of showing people the stars on Eilat's

Tielet. Tonight a guard with a M-1 stopped by to admire Jupiter and I asked about the group he was protecting. He told me it was some group called MBI. I then called over a bunch of kids who were wearing HaboDror shirts and started talking to them. I [...] 81382 43 7_Re: MBI11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 19:33:10 -0400636_windows-1255 Thanks for the update Ethan. Speaking of pretty, how's your sister?

Noam Stopak

----- Original Message ----- From: "Schwartz Family" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 5:25 PM Subject: MBI



>I just returned from another night of showing people the stars on Eilat's >Tielet. Tonight a guard with a M-1 stopped by to admire Jupiter and I >asked about the group he was protecting. He told me it was some group >called MBI. > I then called over a bunch of kids who were wearing HaboDror shirts and > started talking to them. I told them about my [...] 81426 61 7_Re: MBI11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:12:15 -0700294_us-ascii Hi Ethan, I think we were on the same MB Yud '72. My daughter is part of the MBI thing. How nice to hear about them. It is a small world and we are everywhere. I'll be down in Eilat Aug. 14 - 17 with my daughter and my son (who is now at Gilboa). Maybe we'll bump into you again. [...] 81488 357 55_Fw: Remember Levuneshama for the High Holidays, Please!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:18:54 -0700586_Windows-1252 Passing this along, not endorsing, as I don't personally know the people. I will be contributing.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: gluckman To: Harry W. * Gluckman Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:29 PM Subject: Remember Levuneshama for the High Holidays, Please!



Dear friends:

People around the world have come to depend on the reliable information they receive via the Internet. Therefore, it is with pleasure that we want to let you know that Lev U'Neshama now also has it's very own website: www.levuneshama.org [...] 81846 464 46_Fw: ADL Leads Fight Against Michigan Neo-Nazis11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:23:38 -0700539_iso-8859-1 ADLSending this in hopes that some of you are Michigan voters.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Anti-Defamation League To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 12:39 PM Subject: ADL Leads Fight Against Michigan Neo-Nazis





July 27, 2005

ADL Leads the Fight Against Michigan Neo-Nazis

In a disturbing new trend, neo-Nazi groups around the country are hijacking local community events and ADL is leading the fight to confront this menace. [...] 82311 281 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 07:38:44 -0700343_iso-8859-1 D

For the fourth time, when I have a source I will include it.

I will not include it when I do not have the source, but I think an idea is worth seeing and mulling.

I will, however, as many do, state "I do not have the source", so that people will not, heaven forbid, think I am actually STEALING an idea. [...] 82593 222 60_Re: NYTimes: Security Forces of Palestinians Are Found Unfit11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:05:16 -0700540_iso-8859-1 Sharon

I am guessing that your statement is that Israel's antipathy toward the UN is part of the problem.

I think that if you had experience with the U.N. the way we in Israel had, I am fairly sure you wouldn't want them "protecting" you (or being anywhere around you) either.

Their most recent claims to fame was raping the people they were supposed to be protecting and stealing the cookie jar blind. That was only most recent. These are not the defenders of anything you and I would consider useful. [...] 82816 377 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:28:16 -0400567_iso-8859-1 Dear Steve,

My own feeling is that we really don't need at least more than 50% of the mostly junk you forward to this list. I have, in fact, stopped reading anything you forward many moons ago. I so utterly disregard anything you may forward that a very curious thing happened the other day: you had sent your own reaction to David Twersky's press piece before I even read it (Twersky), and sent in my own reaction. It was only a couple of days later, after readin your reaction to Amnon's defense on Twerky's piece against your attacks that I [...] 83194 253 78_Invitation for progressive Jews / Jews on the left / to get involved in weblog16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 12:31:40 -0400667_iso-8859-1



FYI. Take a look at www.jewschool.com but read the item below, from same.

One of the key people working on this widely-read and interesting, slightly funky, slightly counter-cultural, newsy and scoop-ish weblog is frankly desperately asking liberal/progressive Jews to become a bit involved. So, consider it. Vud'den? This includes people who have the time and energy to particpate with the small band of people who actually post stories/items to the website, as well as people who add comments from time to time ... Please see below - and please also share this with others as you think appropriate. [...] 83448 30 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 13:18:47 -0400366_us-ascii May I suggest once again, Steve, that you lay off forwarding other people's "interesting" messages and post some of your own. Once in a while is okay, three or four times a day is overload.

Despite our disagreements, I would very much prefer to hear what Steve Klein the human being thinks than read the messages that fill Steve Klein's in-box. [...] 83479 54 30_Re: [BULK] Steve Klein posting0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:56:27 EDT556_US-ASCII ALERT, ALERT. We are beginning to sink into that gutter again. May I suggest that any attack on members be sent to their personal address, unless, of course, the one who write the trash, for some warped reason, needs the attention it brings. Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 83534 95 82_Re: Invitation for progressive Jews / Jews on the left / to get involved in weblog0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Thu, 28 Jul 2005 19:16:50 -0400698_utf-8 Why doesn't he take a look at ameinu.net??

Norm ---- "Elihu D. Davison" wrote:



FYI. Take a look at www.jewschool.com but read the item below, from same.

One of the key people working on this widely-read and interesting, slightly funky, slightly counter-cultural, newsy and scoop-ish weblog is frankly desperately asking liberal/progressive Jews to become a bit involved. So, consider it. Vud'den? This includes people who have the time and energy to particpate with the small band of people who actually post stories/items to the website, as well as people who add comments from time to time ... Please [...] 83630 469 28_TNR - Condi's Blurred Vision16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:45:59 -0400653_us-ascii

The New Republic Online CONDI'S BLURRED VISION. Word Choice by Martin Peretz Post date: 07.28.05 Issue date: 08.08.05

Condoleezza Rice rushed to Jerusalem and Ramallah on what she is likely to have imagined as a rescue mission for the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza. If that was truly her motive, she need not have bothered. Ariel Sharon has mainstream Israel solidly behind him, and a parliamentary majority has voted for withdrawal no less than four times. Sharon long ago determined that Gaza was a dead end for the country, what with the particularly daunting demographic ratio (1.3 million Arabs to [...] 84100 662 32_Re: TNR - Condi's Blurred Vision8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 18:42:19 +0200455_us-ascii Heh. And people here think I'm cynical. Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Elihu D. Davison Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 4:46 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: TNR - Condi's Blurred Vision





The New Republic Online CONDI'S BLURRED VISION. Word Choice by Martin Peretz Post date: 07.28.05 Issue date: 08.08.05 [...] 84763 51 8_religion0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:15:59 +0000610_- I just ran into two quotes related to two threads here that I found interesting.

The first concerns prayer:

"Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy." ..........Ambrose Bierce The second is from Einstien who someone here claimed proved the existence of god: I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him. ..........Albert Einstein, in a letter to a friend [...] 84815 66 35_Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?10_Dan Kanter20_kanter18@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 21:54:09 -0500597_us-ascii Ethan, Perhaps you knew Gail Pinsky (would have been about the age of the 23rd workshop)from Detroit. In Chicago we had Janet Pinsky (Tavor person and 24th Workshop Grofit) aka Janet Cohen currently of Northbrook and a Tavor parent. You were probably talking in Eilat to 16 year old Becky Sassower veteran tavornik, Janet's niece. Her mother, Janet's sister, Gail Gottlieb also of Northbrook, IL (at one time she may have been Gail Sassower), born Gail Pinsky-Gail never was in Habonim and never went to Tavor, went to Ramah actually. None of us actually knew her, she may have been [...] 84882 87 39_Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 29 Jul 2005 20:07:37 -0700375_us-ascii Hi, Would love some help with workshop numbers and years. Anyone care to put a year next to any of the numbers? Thanks, Batel

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Dan Kanter Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:54 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up? [...] 84970 114 39_Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?16_Esther & Richard23_cohensteacy@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 30 Jul 2005 00:18:54 -0400659_iso-8859-1 I believe we were 27th - 1977-1978 (Gesher Haziv)

Esther Cohen Mosh

----- Original Message ----- From: "Batel Libes" To: Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 11:07 PM Subject: Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?



> Hi, > Would love some help with workshop numbers and years. Anyone care to put > a year next to any of the numbers? Thanks, Batel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] > On Behalf Of Dan Kanter > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 7:54 PM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: Will the real Gail [...] 85085 1359 69_Fw: The NEWS from ISRAEL on Friday, July 29, 2005 and 22 Tammuz, 576511_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:24:54 -0700623_Windows-1252

With attribution. Original source is usually Israeli embassy\\

Steve



Subject: The NEWS from ISRAEL on Friday, July 29, 2005 and 22 Tammuz, 5765



The NEWS from ISRAEL





Police to ban anti-pullout protests ahead of march

By Jonathan Lis, Yoav Stern and Nir Hasson, Haaretz Correspondents

Police said Friday they plan to prohibit anti-pullout protests in the south of the country next week in an attempt to prevent right-wing activists from reaching the Gaza settlement bloc of Gush Katif during a march set for Tuesday evening. [...] 86445 524 38_Fw: Tovah Feldshuh's "GOLDA's BALCONY"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:36:17 -0700612_Windows-1252

We saw this a while ago. Well worth doing what it takes to see it. I don't think it will offend anyoneon our 'net.

Steve



Subject: Tovah Feldshuh's "GOLDA's BALCONY"



Dear Readers: Here is a review from yesterday's San Mateo Times. I am sending it to you because if you have not seen Tovah Feldshuh's "GOLDA's BALCONY" now playing at the Geary Theater in San Francisco, I advise you to hurry up and order your tickets and expose yourself to this fabulous portrayal of OUR Version of Joan of Arc. Whatever i might say to you about this performance can [...] 86970 131 10_Fw: Wishes11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 30 Jul 2005 07:48:08 -0700732_iso-8859-1

This touched a distinctly Jewish nerve in me. For those that are offended by the print matter; An easy solution is to view the pictures and click before the text. It would be a shame to miss the pictures.

Steve





Subject: Fw: Wishes







-------Original Message-------

Subject: Wishes

Hope you have a great weekend... :-)







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 87102 252 15_Re: The Vatican12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:01:03 -0700560_iso-8859-1 I had read about this for a while and again came to the conclusion that no matter how hard we try,we are "periphiral" and a "pain in the neck" to "the world"--while this "slight" may not be so important, I was shocked at the original statement coming out of the Vatican, and more shocked when they could find no graceful way to admit they made a mistake and instead, became so "defensive."- Aren't our children and mothers, and fathers human beings too? I guess not iint he eyes of the Catholic hierarchy John Paul must be rolliing over in his [...] 87355 895 97_[QUAR]Fw: At least nine major U.S. cities, are prime targets for the al-Qaida nuclear terrorists.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 30 Jul 2005 08:04:58 -0700402_UTF-8

This comes with full attribution. It didn't have to in order to contain the stuff of the best fiction. Grisham did not write this, but I think even the least paranoid among us will take notice.

Steve



To: Harry W. * Gluckman Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 1:09 AM Subject: Fw: At least nine major U.S. cities, are prime targets for the al-Qaida nuclear terrorists. [...] 88251 142 39_Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 11:52:38 -0400373_iso-8859-1 Hi Batel, I too have always gotten mixed up by the numbers and felt that the years were easier to remember. Until last night when Yuval expained a very simple way to remember how they are connected, at least with regards to Workshop numbers.Workshop didn't start in 1950 but the next year in "51 which actually makes it easier for this pattern to remember: [...] 88394 199 39_Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 14:18:52 -0400691_iso-8859-1 does anyone out there know what happened to the real Danny Kanter?

________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh on behalf of Dan Kanter Sent: Fri 7/29/2005 10:54 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?





Ethan, Perhaps you knew Gail Pinsky (would have been about the age of the 23rd workshop)from Detroit. In Chicago we had Janet Pinsky (Tavor person and 24th Workshop Grofit) aka Janet Cohen currently of Northbrook and a Tavor parent. You were probably talking in Eilat to 16 year old Becky Sassower veteran tavornik, Janet's niece. Her mother, Janet's sister, Gail Gottlieb [...] 88594 199 39_Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:56:44 +0200573_iso-8859-1 Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?he's in israel.

----- Original Message ----- From: David Twersky To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 8:18 PM Subject: Re: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up?



does anyone out there know what happened to the real Danny Kanter?



------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh on behalf of Dan Kanter Sent: Fri 7/29/2005 10:54 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Will the real Gail Pinsky stand up? [...] 88794 45 34_Kibbutz Movement and Disengagement14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sun, 31 Jul 2005 21:08:42 +0000736_- 31 July 2005

Shalom Chevre,

The following article by NIR HASSON, which I have translated from today’s HaAretz newspaper, may be of interest.

Marty Goodman

------------------------------------------------------------------

VOLUNTEERS FROM KIBBUTZIM WILL ASSIST IN DISMANTLING OF GREENHOUSES IN GUSH [KATIF]

About 30 volunteers from Kibbutzim will arrive the day after tomorrow to the Ganey Tal settlement and will assist in dismantling of the greenhouses and the agricultural equipment of one of the businesses and in transferring it to an alternate location. The volunteers received the blessing of the office of the Prime Minister which is also funding their insurance. In total, about [...]