1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet June 2005 2 50 17_More Kumsitz Info0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 03:04:41 EDT639_US-ASCII People as diverse as Abba Caspi (Connecticut), Sam Bergman (D.C.), Sam Flesher (Pittsburgh), Harriet Yeidel (Chicago), JJ Goldberg NY/Guitarist Par Excellence), Donna Greenberg (New Jersey), Tzvi Steinhauer (from Austria!)etc. are coming in for the Kumsitz. I hope that many others of you are coming.

Looking forward, Aliya

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 53 41 22_Even More Kumsitz Info0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 03:10:22 EDT426_US-ASCII And there will be a reprise of the Habonim Dance Ensemble performance from this year's Israel Dance Festival. . . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 95 170 21_Re: sharon is correct0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 07:32:16 -0700410_us-ascii Yes, where it gradually dawns on you that you don't want to be in school anymore. Or maybe you gradually realize that you'll have to get a real ob at the end of it.

Sharon









Noam Stopak Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 05/31/2005 04:25 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 266 29 10_Sunday fun12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 13:04:57 -0700660_iso-8859-1 For anyone who is interested, my son, Avi, the comic, will be on E! Entertainment this Sunday at 8:00PM (EST/PST) on a show called "What Hollywood Taught us About Sex".....Sue





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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 296 375 36_Fw: Palestinian farmers: Don't leave5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 23:01:30 -0700542_utf-8

Here is another side to the issue. Steve



Subject: Fw: Palestinian farmers: Don't leave







"Palestinian" farmers to the settlers: "Don't leave!"

These same palestinian farmers also blame all of their problems on Israel - but for a reason you probably don't expect. The reason is that Rabin NEVER should have signed any agreements with Arafat in the first place!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [...] 672 76 30_Two IMportant Kumsitz Requests0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 04:52:26 EDT574_US-ASCII Dear Chevreh,

First, here's another name to add to the luminaries list - Elissa Lerner. makhela singer and folksong lyric memory par excellence, is coming in from Arkansas to join the Kumsitz Crowd!

Two important requests:

1)If you are driving down to the Kumsitz from Westchester County and can give Abba and Dvora Caspi home hospitality on Sat. night after the Kumsitz, please call my office, 212-533-7800/ext. 2159 immediately . We have a lovely offer of home hospitality in Manhattan as backup, but a Westchester offer would be ideal. [...] 749 82 40_Re: Fw: Palestinian farmers: Don't leave0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 06:56:15 EDT627_US-ASCII Steve

This is really a little bit of a joke. There are 3,000 Palestinians working in Gush Katif. Previously there were 170,000 Palestinians working in Israel. If Hamas would cool its terror campaign those people could have their jobs back. That would be good for Israel and for Palestine. Surely you don't think that having 3,000 Palestinians employed in Gush Katif is worth keeping thousands of Israeli soldiers pinned down to protect those settlements. I mean this is almost certainly a clever bit of settler propaganda. You are not going to fall for the settlers getting together with some Palestinians [...] 832 67 5_Zorro8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:47:09 +0200538_us-ascii

I see that Doylestown is a lot more exciting than when we used to go out to Ed's Diner:

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/113-06012005-496703.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 900 114 34_Re: Two IMportant Kumsitz Requests13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:34:11 +0200431_iso-8859-1 shalom, please give Elissa Lerner my love. She was my chanicha in BuffaloHabonim. If you can give her my email address I would appreciate it. or give me hers, so i can write her, that would be great. Thanks so much, pearl what the hell is she doing in Arkansas?? ----- Original Message ----- From: SC523@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 10:52 AM Subject: Two IMportant Kumsitz Requests [...] 1015 60 23_doylestown and the Jews13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:59:21 +0200554_windows-1255 The National Farm School, set up by the Philadelphia Reform Jewish community, is in Doyleston, Pa. Most of the students in the 1930's were Jews (including my father and Sarah and Ezra Harris' father) who were studying agriculture, many of whom did so to prepare for aliya to Israel. World War II put an end to their plans to make aliya. One of my father's best friends from NFS was Charlie Goodman, who now lives in Philadelphia, but ran a farm near ours when I was a child. There were some Amish in the school, and I remember one with [...] 1076 99 40_Re: Fw: Palestinian farmers: Don't leave13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:21:55 +0200485_iso-8859-1

Sam, you constantly insult the intelligence of others and it just reflects badly on yourself. Whenever something is sent to this list that doesn't correspond to your long-held opinions which seem to be etched in lead, you take to insulting the person who deigned to submit an idea or opinion not matching that which is engraved in your brain. Steve, pay no attention. Let the dogs bark.... Some of us cats are interested in what you send on to the list.. pearl [...] 1176 60 11_Windsor, CT0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:46:34 EDT590_US-ASCII There is a Habo female who usually attends the NY Kumsitz who is from Windsor, Ct - if you are out there, please identify yourself. Abba Caspi needs to know if you are attending this year.

Please write in now.

Thanks, and sorry for bothering everyone with this, Aliya

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 1237 109 21_Re: sharon is correct11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:12:53 -0400442_iso-8859-1 Or perhaps you go through school very gradually (the perpetual student syndrome) ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 10:32 AM Subject: Re: sharon is correct





Yes, where it gradually dawns on you that you don't want to be in school anymore. Or maybe you gradually realize that you'll have to get a real ob at the end of it. [...] 1347 137 13_Jerusalem Day12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 4 Jun 2005 22:12:27 +0200428_iso-8859-1 In 1967, baffled by the Old Citys countless blind alleys the tzanhanim that breached the wall were frustrated in their rush to find the Western Wall. Later, translators of Naomi Shemers Yerushalaim shel zahav (the song that became a quasi anthem) were as numerous and as befuddled. Since Jerusalem Day is hard upon us, I wont try doing justice to that wonderful song this year. What the hell, Im still young [...] 1485 125 40_Re: Fw: Palestinian farmers: Don't leave0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:41:52 EDT618_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/02/2005 3:22:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Sam, you constantly insult the intelligence of others and it just reflects badly on yourself.

Pearl, it comes as no surprise to me or anyone that you would endorse this article. You are the first to endorse extreme unfounded right wing view and the last to attention to the obvious. I don't blame you. You have been taken in to that. The whole process of the hitnakut has to be painful to you. Nevertheless, the fact that both you and Steve are advancing stuff about Palestinian workers in [...] 1611 424 16_a partial answer13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:08:31 +0200565_iso-8859-1 Habonet, Arab workers are hardly a minor segment of their population. We have been witness daily to thousands of them attempting to cross into Israel to work, walking miles through hills and wadis, to get into this country in order to earn money. We do not base our ideas and knowledge on an article in the newspaper or on the internet -- these just reinforce preconceived notions. Over the years, there have been tens of programs and articles about these workers begging to be let into Israel to work. Of Arabs getting up at 2 a.m. in order to get [...] 2036 178 20_Re: a partial answer0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:22:44 EDT417_US-ASCII

In a message dated 06/05/2005 10:10:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Pearl thank your this thoughtful response.

Arab workers are hardly a minor segment of their population.

But Arab workers in the Gaza settlements are a tiny number when compared to Arabs in the rest of Gaza. It was these Arabs who were being referred to in Steve's posting. [...] 2215 231 20_Re: a partial answer11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 19:25:17 -0700549_us-ascii Just a brief reply on what is reported abroad and what is not. I, and I believe many others on this list, go to Israeli sites (isn't it a wonderful thing having the Internet?) for most of our news and other information about Israel. So if things are not reported by the Israeli media and you have access to them, I would say most others in Israel don't know about these things either. BTW, not everything is translated into English, so true, we may not know everything but that is not a result of American media not reporting it, it's [...] 2447 109 20_Re: a partial answer0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:30:47 EDT402_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/05/2005 10:10:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Pearl once again thank you for you thoughts.

Re the Jews living in Aza. Most Israelis understand that they are a high quality population and we all feel the pain they are experiencing. Just the thought of their graves being moved is enough to make one's hair stand on end. [...] 2557 121 20_Re: a partial answer0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:33:52 EDT536_UTF-8 In a message dated 06/05/2005 10:27:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

So if things are not reported by the Israeli media and you have access to them, I would say most others in Israel don’t know about these things either. BTW, not everything is translated into English, so true, we may not know everything but that is not a result of American media not reporting it, it’s that the Israeli sources decide what should be available to those who don’t read Hebrew and what should not. [...] 2679 339 5_batel13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 04:49:31 +0200561_iso-8859-1 batel the truth is "if it is not reported in the media it didn't happen or doesn't exist." The media in Israel is Leftist, and this is no secret, they admit it. So, for example, I recall participating in what was surely one of the largest demonstrations in the history of Israel. 200 buses full of people were stopped before they even could get to Jerusalem. In my lifetime I never saw so many people in Jerusalem. It was an incredible sight (I don't even remember what we demonstrated for or against). At one moment in my wanderings that night [...] 3019 70 20_Re: a partial answer0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:51:22 EDT553_US-ASCII

as opposed to those scummy you know who! and its a good thing they can't feel pain.

mm

Most Israelis understand that they are a high quality population and we all feel the pain they are experiencing







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 3090 119 9_Re: batel0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sun, 5 Jun 2005 23:40:33 EDT414_US-ASCII

In a message dated 06/05/2005 10:51:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Today, almost nothing shocks me. I have seen too much. I am not privy to secret information. What I write is common knowledge, gleaned from the media and my own experiences, as well as the TV news, as lopsided as it is. So, basically, it is known by everyone who keeps his eyes open. [...] 3210 468 20_Re: a partial answer0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:22:32 +0000504_- Pearl wrote: "Most Israelis understand that they are a high quality population..."

Ayrian I suppose?









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 3679 468 20_Re: a partial answer0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:24:34 +0000540_- Pearl wrote: "So many were shtupped into the van, they could not close the doors, but this did not stop the driver from taking off..."

Forgive me, I am no Yiddish expert, but did you mean "shtupped?"









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4148 62 20_Re: a partial answer13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:11:52 -0400374_us-ascii Dear Pearl, I have been following this story closely. Those girls remain in jail because they refuse to give their names as a protest. If you are going to let someone out on bail, the authorities need to know who they are so that they can be brought back for a trail. Or are you suggesting that they just drop the charges? That's not bail. Warmly, Judy Gelman [...] 4211 39 19_blast from the past17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:13:09 +0200528_us-ascii Hello people on Habonet. I have resisted for years but now I am weakening and writing to say hello. I am Heidi Minkin formerly of Ken Arava and Ken Nesher of Phila. and hanicha, madricha, and rosh machaneh of Galil. I was mazkira t'nua in 1982-1984 and then made aliya to Kibbutz Gezer where (unbelievable as it may seem) I am today. (My welcome letter told me to give my bona fides the first time I write in). So it was nice to see mail from Richard just so I know he still exists. Any other Workshop 25? We seem [...] 4251 63 9_Re: batel13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:25:16 -0400422_us-ascii Dear Sam, There have been stories about Bedouin and relatives of collaborators who are scared to death of the disengagement. They want to move inside the Green Line with the former settlers. But out of 1.5 mil people, these 300 people constitute less than .02% of the population. In the US, there is a larger percentage of people who think Thomas Jefferson was a space alien (seriously!) Warmly, Judy Gelman [...] 4315 91 9_Re: batel0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:33:47 EDT490_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/06/2005 7:28:37 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:

There have been stories about Bedouin and relatives of collaborators who are scared to death of the disengagement. They want to move inside the Green Line with the former settlers. But out of 1.5 mil people, these 300 people constitute less than .02% of the population. In the US, there is a larger percentage of people who think Thomas Jefferson was a space alien (seriously!) [...] 4407 65 20_Re: a partial answer13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:33:50 -0400360_us-ascii Dear Richard- Shtupped--verb, past tense. 1. "stuffed", as in "I shtupped the chicken with lemons and potatoes to get that flavor" 2. "screwed" or :humped" as in "He is shtupping his secretary". Second definition is used widely in Hollywood by Jews and non-Jews in "the industry" I believe that Pearl was using the first definition. Warmly, Judy [...] 4473 208 57_Re: HABONET Digest - 4 Jun 2005 to 5 Jun 2005 (#2005-151)15_Schwartz Family23_arava_eilat@HOTMAIL.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 15:18:34 +0300340_windows-1255 Of Arabs getting up at 2 a.m. in order to get to the border crossings to be able somehow get into Israel legally and get to their jobs. of Jews going to the crossings to help their workers, to give them money if they can not get into Israel to work, to assist them once they cross the border and bring them to their jobs. [...] 4682 54 20_Re: a partial answer0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:30:05 EDT535_US-ASCII Judy, you have taught us all something about Shtupped. I was seriously thinking that maybe Pearl meant that "there were so many people shtupping in the van that they could not close the door." What a way to protest.

Sam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4737 64 23_Re: blast from the past8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:41:29 +0200404_US-ASCII Dear Heidi,

First of all, hi and welcome.

Second, your analysis of the situation is perfect - just what I'd expect from a Mt. Airey woman!

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sheldon and Heidi Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:13 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: blast from the past [...] 4802 54 20_Re: a partial answer12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:44:11 -0700659_iso-8859-1 WaS THAT A RACIST REMARK???-SUE

--- Judith Gelman wrote:

> Dear Richard- > Shtupped--verb, past tense. > 1. "stuffed", as in "I shtupped the chicken with > lemons and potatoes to > get that flavor" > 2. "screwed" or :humped" as in "He is shtupping > his secretary". > Second definition is used widely in Hollywood by > Jews and non-Jews in > "the industry" > I believe that Pearl was using the first definition. > Warmly, > Judy > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service [...] 4857 85 45_Re: a partial answer:RE "HOLLYWOOD SHTUPPERS"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 07:53:33 -0700596_iso-8859-1 P.s.- In these times, most Hollywood Jews wouldn't say "shtup"- but would defer to the politically correct term, f@#$%^^ing. --s



--- Sue Liberman wrote:

> WaS THAT A RACIST REMARK???-SUE > > --- Judith Gelman wrote: > > > Dear Richard- > > Shtupped--verb, past tense. > > 1. "stuffed", as in "I shtupped the chicken with > > lemons and potatoes to > > get that flavor" > > 2. "screwed" or :humped" as in "He is shtupping > > his secretary". > > Second definition is used widely in Hollywood by > > Jews and non-Jews [...] 4943 83 23_Re: blast from the past12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 17:02:32 +0200596_iso-8859-1 I hate to break it to you, Jon, but I'm also from Mt. Airy. Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Baum" To: Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: Re: blast from the past



> Dear Heidi, > > First of all, hi and welcome. > > Second, your analysis of the situation is perfect - just what I'd expect > from a Mt. Airey woman! > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On > Behalf Of Sheldon and Heidi > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:13 PM [...] 5027 255 14_YAVIN HU MAVIN0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:17:25 EDT671_UTF-8 A recent review of Yavin's documentary as reported in Peals leftist radical communist ... but most widely read newspaper in Israel Yediot...

LAND OF THE LOST: Last week, Israel’s Channel Two television station began airing a high-profile documentary series on the settlements called, “The Land of the Settlers,” which was made by veteran Israeli journalist Haim Yavin. Reflecting on the program, television reviewer Raanan Shaked wrote, in part, “The breath becomes short, the heart is choked with anger. This is the only human response to ‘The Land of the Settlers.’ No, there is actually another reasonable reaction: After watching ‘The [...] 5283 243 20_Re: a partial answer13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:20:10 -0400531_us-ascii That both Jews and non-Jews use "shtupped" for "screwed:" in the film industry? Why is that racist?

There is lots of Yiddish used as slang in LA and NY and esp among those in "the industry" (as they call it). Yiddish slang has been adopted as the lingo by a lot of people as "cool." A lot of the time the full usage of a word is lost in that milieu. This is esp true among non-Jews because not many non-Jews had a Bubbie who told tell them to" shtup arein de tzibbalah" (stuff in the onion) when teaching them [...] 5527 72 45_Re: a partial answer:RE "HOLLYWOOD SHTUPPERS"13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:28:08 -0400573_us-ascii You obviously know LA better than I do. However, I was just there in April and heard "shtupping " used by an African-American actor friend of my sister's. I guess it seemed like a less vulgar way to say what he wanted to tell us.

Judy

> > > >



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 5600 55 46_Column on American Jews and the Dis-engagement0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 11:53:08 -0400593_us-ascii Hi Folks:

As many of you know, Ameinu commissioned a survey on American Jewish attitudes towards the disengagement that received good press coverage in both American Jewish and Israeli newspapers. It was even covered in the New York Daily News!

As a follow up we put together an op-ed piece that has now appeared in a half a dozen Jewish papers in the U.S. The article is an attempt to make centrist American Jews comfortable with supporting the disengagement. If you would like to read the column, check out the link below. If you would like to receive our weekly [...] 5656 65 39_RE "HOLLYWOOD SHTUPPERS": clarification12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:00:22 -0700403_iso-8859-1 It just seemed- by the tone of your comment- that you were using "Hollywood industry types" as a stereotype---I happen to LOVE the word, "shtup"-- but I would find it hard to lay it on any "ethnic" group (as you call us "Hollywood" types) these days-since language is more and more becomeing a global thing ( like "O.K") Just like- I know a lot of white people who use "Yo Momma"!...sue [...] 5722 68 25_SO HOW WAS THE KUMSITZ???12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:07:15 -0700580_iso-8859-1 CAN WE HAVE A REPORT???--SUE



--- kbob24@AOL.COM wrote:

> Hi Folks: > > As many of you know, Ameinu commissioned a survey on > American Jewish attitudes towards the disengagement > that received good press coverage in both American > Jewish and Israeli newspapers. It was even covered > in the New York Daily News! > > As a follow up we put together an op-ed piece that > has now appeared in a half a dozen Jewish papers in > the U.S. The article is an attempt to make centrist > American Jews comfortable with supporting the > disengagement. [...] 5791 56 9_Re: batel0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:26:04 -0700593_us-ascii Pearl wrote: "The media in Israel is Leftist, and this is no secret."

We who live in the States hear this same accusation. I, of course, cannot make an informed assessment of the Israeli media, but I know that the U.S. media is decidedly NOT leftist (it's called "liberal" here). But don't just take my word for it. Eric Alterman, Professor of English at Brookly College of the City University of NY and media columnist for The Nation, and who has been called "the most honest and incisive media critic writing today" by the National Catholic Reporter (hardly a left-wing [...] 5848 127 24_12 year old criminal ???13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 19:49:08 +0200406_iso-8859-1 Judy, everyone knows who the girls are, even I know who one of them is. There are NO secrets in Israel. The police know who they are. There can be no excuse to leave 12 year old girls in jail, a place so awful (Russian Compound) that people have committed suicide in there. It is an inhuman place. One chaver knesset who visited the place said it should be bombed and rebuilt from scratch. [...] 5976 116 9_Re: batel0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:48:00 -0400632_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 10:26:04 -0700 Subject: Re: batel





Pearl wrote: "The media in Israel is Leftist, and this is no secret."

Pearl calls all things that are not in line with Arutz Sheva or the settlers leftist. What Pearl will not do is explain to us why the media are leftist. The poor people at the media have to report the news and can't just make things up so they wind up being leftist. Pearl has still not said a word about Hiam Yavin and Yoman Masa. If something happens that she [...] 6093 120 27_The Other side fo the story12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:36:42 -0700580_iso-8859-1 I didn't see Yavin's production (they should try and sell it to HBO), and I was very moved by Hiam's posting; and I feel that there is probably no one on this list who favors the suffering and dehumanization of the "regular" Palestinian citizen, be he/she man, woman, child. And I am convinced, that with true conscience and a belief that peace is possible, all of this settlement stuff would go away. However, no one has dared mention the security problems which may develop, given the scope of the geographics Israel is giving away to a population which, in its [...] 6214 178 35_Two Things--And To Chevre in Israel12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:50:56 -0700394_iso-8859-1 Firstly- I would like to thank Sam Bergman for his suggestion to use the "People Finder" when I was trying to contact the Kooliks in Israel. I wrote an email and I got a quick repsonse! Thanks again!

ALSO- for the chevre in israel: here is AVi's schedule- he's back witht he comics and he has great people with him this year: June 2o at the Yellow Submarine in Jerusalem [...] 6393 42 38_Thanks to Sam B and Avi back in Israel12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:58:01 -0700577_iso-8859-1 Firstly, I want to thank Sam Bergman for his suggestion to use the "People Finder" when I was trying to locate the Kooliks. I sent an email via the finder, and they responded to me quickly. Thanks again!

Now- for chevre in Israel- Avi is back with his tour with the comics; this year, tickets are 80 Shekels, and it is (tzedaka) a contribution to Crossroads, an organization that helps homeless teens in Jerusalem. The schedule is as follows: June 20- The Yellow Submarine in Jerusalem June 21 at the Stenga Club in Jerusalem June 23- Tzavta in Tel Aviv [...] 6436 227 6_OOPS!-12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:02:48 -0700584_iso-8859-1 SORRY!- I had a computer glitch, and it sent the unfinished email--I know this is redundant- I suppose it is the senior moment stuff;- having many of those lately!--sue





--- Sue Liberman wrote:

> Firstly- I would like to thank Sam Bergman for his > suggestion to use the "People Finder" when I was > trying to contact the Kooliks in Israel. I wrote an > email and I got a quick repsonse! Thanks again! > > ALSO- for the chevre in israel: here is AVi's > schedule- he's back witht he comics and he has great > people [...] 6664 331 35_yavin's movie, the left, and ......13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:13:05 +0200536_iso-8859-1 I am asked why I do not comment on chaim yavin's movie: sorry, I can not discuss something I have not seen or heard personally. I have not seen the program, so can not comment on it. Because the media is self-defined as leftist, the Right was forced to create its own newspapers and news on line to offset it. fact. sorry Sam, but what you write is simply not true. writing it does not make it true. A reporter's bias comes out in his questions, his mode of asking, his snideness, the type of questions he asks, and his [...] 6996 51 43_Re: RE "HOLLYWOOD SHTUPPERS": clarification13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:14:07 -0400466_us-ascii Well, "shtup" (and yiddish in general) hasn't made much headway into non-Jewish DC slang! Judy

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 7048 231 20_Re: a partial answer13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 22:31:06 +0200381_iso-8859-1 I think it is correct to say "they were shtupped in to the van." and the "van was g'shtupt." if i am wrong the floor is yours! I am amazed at this exchange about shtupped, because I am so used to using it or hearing it. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:20 PM Subject: Re: a partial answer [...] 7280 59 23_Re: blast from the past16_Katherine Lavine26_holycowfoods@EARTHLINK.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 13:35:37 -0700619_US-ASCII Hey Heidi and Sheldon!!!!@!! Welcome to the weird and wacky world of Habonet. Let's catch up, soon! (not on Habonet) Welcome and get your delete button ready! xxoo kathee holycowfoods@earthliink.net



> [Original Message] > From: Sheldon and Heidi > To: > Date: 6/6/2005 10:11:25 AM > Subject: blast from the past > > Hello people on Habonet. I have resisted for years but now I am weakening > and writing to say hello. I am Heidi Minkin formerly of Ken Arava and Ken > Nesher of Phila. and hanicha, madricha, and rosh machaneh of Galil. I was > [...] 7340 65 25_More on the verb "shtupt"13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:32:01 -0400510_us-ascii RIchard-- To complete your education on this word, another form is "fa'shtupt" which is the reflective form, meaning "to be filled" If someone says "I am fa'shtupt" , it generally means his/her sinuses are full of nasal mucus and having difficulty breathing. As far as I know, being fa'shtupt has nothing to do with having had sex. . However, it can also be used for inanimate objects, as in "The shower drain was so fa'shtupt with hair, we had to call the plumber." A bei gazunt (be well)- Judy [...] 7406 375 20_Re: a partial answer13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:52:51 -0400553_us-ascii Dear Pearl, While I would say the van was fa'shtupt ( which is the reflexive) not g'shtupt (intensive), I assume that your usage is influenced by the ways in which Yiddish is integrated Hebrew, which is a bit different than how it has been integrated into English. What I would say is that "the police ga'shtupt that van with so many children, that they were falling out" and "the van was so f'shtupt, a girl fell out". But since we are using words out of the context of the original language, I don't think it much matters. A bei gazunt- [...] 7782 59 9_Re: batel13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:58:52 -0400391_us-ascii Following the European model, most Israeli newspapers have their roots in political party affiliations so there really is a reason to say, for example, that Haaretz is "leftist". By contrast, American papers like the NYTimes, Wash Post, etc, generally have a historical policy of political impartiality, even if it seems like that tradition is fading into the misty past. Judy [...] 7842 150 29_Re: More on the verb "shtupt"12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:16:18 +0200610_iso-8859-1 When it comes to Yiddish words, I don't think the lesson is ever over given all the dialect and creative use. Some more benign associations: shtupen can be to just plain push, and also 'to fatten up,' as in 'lfatem' in Hebrew (as one would a domesticated animal). As for vulgarity, there's something about those sh words in Yinglish (shnook, shmegegge, etc.) and in Yiddish (shmatte, shmuck, shtunk, shlump, shlemiel, shlep, shikker, shmendrick (or is that Yingish?), shmo (?) . Linguistically their origins vary but they somehow grew into a single family. All you really need is the first two [...] 7993 114 9_Re: batel12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 23:19:05 +0200605_iso-8859-1 This is not true of the Israeli state television or radio channels! ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:58 PM Subject: Re: batel



Following the European model, most Israeli newspapers have their roots in political party affiliations so there really is a reason to say, for example, that Haaretz is "leftist". By contrast, American papers like the NYTimes, Wash Post, etc, generally have a historical policy of political impartiality, even if it seems like that tradition is fading into the misty past. Judy [...] 8108 176 20_Re: a partial answer12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 14:33:20 -0700564_iso-8859-1 I wonder if conjugations of the word "shtup" would ever make it on "Jeopardy"...s



--- Pearl Skolnik wrote:

> I think it is correct to say "they were shtupped in > to the van." and the "van was g'shtupt." > if i am wrong the floor is yours! > I am amazed at this exchange about shtupped, because > I am so used to using it or hearing it. > pearl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Judith Gelman > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:20 PM > Subject: Re: a partial answer > > [...] 8285 109 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:30:16 EDT574_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/06/2005 3:39:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

I didn't see Yavin's production (they should try and sell it to HBO), and I was very moved by Hiam's posting; and I feel that there is probably no one on this list who favors the suffering and dehumanization of the "regular" Palestinian citizen, be he/she man, woman, child. And I am convinced, that with true conscience and a belief that peace is possible, all of this settlement stuff would go away. However, no one has dared mention the security problems [...] 8395 185 39_Re: yavin's movie, the left, and ......0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 18:38:05 EDT411_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/06/2005 4:15:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

I am asked why I do not comment on chaim yavin's movie: sorry, I can not discuss something I have not seen or heard personally.



You certainly can comment on the press coverage of it which was posted here. I am sure you will watch the whole thing and be able to comment soon. [...] 8581 116 31_Re: The Other side fo the story12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 16:37:15 -0700606_iso-8859-1 Sam- you missed my point. Just look at the map. Aside from being surrounded by enemies, now with giving back this without any security promises or steps, Israel is a sitting duck. The people in the video were very learned - high-rankiing army people (I know they are people who have an agenda, but so does Sharon)....My question, which is the same question Danile Gordis faced from his children, is what are we getting back from doing this act? Any promises of security? Any payments for construction and improvements of land? Any promises that terrorists won't keep attacking with missles [...] 8698 565 31_FW: Re: my reply to your idiocy0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 00:03:22 +0000680_-





---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: rdsmith1957@comcast.net To: Pearl Skolnik Subject: Re: my reply to your idiocy Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2005 00:02:28 +0000

Pearl,

Since you are a renown and unqualified expert on idiocy, I take your comment just as seriously as it deserves to be taken.

Charlie Chaplin was often accused of being a Jew, and though he wasn't, he never denied the accusation because he felt it would be anti-Semetic to do so. (He felt it would be a personal insult to his brother who had had a Jewish father - interestingly enough many of the theological [...] 9264 409 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 20:59:14 EDT527_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/06/2005 7:38:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

Sam- you missed my point. Just look at the map.

I do that twice a week



Aside from being surrounded by enemies, now with giving back this without any security promises or steps, Israel is a sitting duck.

Israel is a sitting duck. That is why it cannot afford to play with its security by entertaining the messianic aspirations of settlers who think they have a direct line with God. [...] 9674 106 20_Re: a partial answer11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 6 Jun 2005 21:46:43 -0400649_iso-8859-1 Shtuppin' the chicken, hadn't heard that one before. And I thought this was a family list....

Howdy Heidi!

Noam Stopak ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 7:33 AM Subject: Re: a partial answer



Dear Richard- Shtupped--verb, past tense. 1. "stuffed", as in "I shtupped the chicken with lemons and potatoes to get that flavor" 2. "screwed" or :humped" as in "He is shtupping his secretary". Second definition is used widely in Hollywood by Jews and non-Jews in "the industry" I believe that Pearl was using the first definition. Warmly, Judy [...] 9781 48 21_The Real SHTUPN Scoop11_Sam Bergman22_sambergman@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 02:41:28 -0400416_us-ascii Chevre,

Here's the real 'shtupn' scoop -- my memory and all my Yiddish dictionaries agree. There are two totally distinct roots in Yiddish:

shtupn: to push, shove shtopn: to stuff, fill up

Variations with prefixes 'arein' (into) and 'far' are:

areinshtupn: to PUSH in(to) areinshtopn: to STUFF in(to) farshtupn: to set (push) aside, relegate farshtopn: to stuff up, stop up [...] 9830 72 7_Hey Sam8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 09:52:08 +0200482_us-ascii Hey Sam,

If I'm not mistaken, I think you mentioned that you were reading McCullough's 1776. I'd like to know what you think of it. Or was it another book?

Jon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9903 72 17_Dropping the Baum8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:21:42 +0200478_us-ascii Jews who Rock. Ok, I guess I can live with the fact that Gene Simmons was Chaim Witz, but Mama Cass was Ellen Cohen?

Check it out:

http://www.jewsrock.org/

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9976 70 25_Re: The Real SHTUPN Scoop12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:16:15 +0200447_iso-8859-1 How intelligent, to look in a dictionary. In my two Yiddish dictionaries, b.Both spellings (with alef and with vav (shtop and shtup if you will) have the meaning of to shove. I think that at this point we need to consult the experts... come out wherever you are. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Bergman" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:41 AM Subject: The Real SHTUPN Scoop [...] 10047 143 11_Re: Hey Sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:04:40 EDT570_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/07/2005 2:54:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Hey Sam, If I'm not mistaken, I think you mentioned that you were reading McCullough's 1776. I'd like to know what you think of it. Or was it another book? Jon Well I am enjoying it. I have just gotten to the prelude of the battle of Brooklyn. I never knew all the drama around the siege of Boston or around the attempts to defend New York. There are really important American Generals like Knox and Greene that I did not know about. I did not know about [...] 10191 84 21_Re: Dropping the Baum0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:25:47 EDT513_US-ASCII

In a message dated 06/07/2005 4:23:40 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:



____________________________________





Jon

I just read the Mama Cass bio on that site. Thank you. I pretty well knew the biographies of the other three Mama's and Papas and all their love and drug affairs but some how I never knew anything about Mama Cass. She really comes alive. I am going to book mark that site and read more of it. Thank you so much [...] 10276 236 11_Re: Hey Sam8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:29:11 +0200343_us-ascii Sam,

I enjoyed the Panama Canal book as well. I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know as much about the Revolution as I should. Well, I'll get around to it some day. If you like his stuff, I certainly would recommend to you McCullough's biography of Truman. It's a little worshipful, but full of detail and a great read. [...] 10513 89 11_Re: Hey Sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:51:23 EDT609_US-ASCII

In a message dated 06/07/2005 7:31:03 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

I certainly would recommend to you McCullough's biography of Truman. It's a little worshipful, but full of detail and a great read.



Thanks Jon. I did read that too although a long time ago. Keep coming with reading recommendations. Here is one from me. Latch on to Simon Winchestor. Start with "The Map that Changed the World" I found him after I finished reading The Panama Canal book and I asked the clerk at Borders what else I could read. He is also a guy with a lot [...] 10603 70 21_Re: Dropping the Baum12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 07:16:35 -0700597_iso-8859-1 mama cass went to my school and graduated with Marcia Berman; weird synchronicity- one of the guyss I work with was Michelle Phillips' publicist--I found out a lot of "schmootz"-- (OK Bergman- go for that one too!!!)--sue

--- Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> > In a message dated 06/07/2005 4:23:40 A.M. Eastern > Standard Time, > jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes: > > > ____________________________________ > > > > Jon > > I just read the Mama Cass bio on that site. Thank > you. I pretty well knew > the biographies of the other three Mama's and Papas > and all their love and [...] 10674 175 11_Re: Hey Sam8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:18:17 +0200497_US-ASCII Thanks Sam, read that one. I'd also recommend his "Krakatoa." He also wrote a book on the writing of the Oxford English Dictionary: "The Professor and the Madman" which I liked a lot.

I tend to read mostly military history. If you have a mind to try the genre, some of the writers I enjoy include John Keegan, Max Hastings, Rick Atkinson, Ronald Spector, Martin Van Creveld, Allan Millet, James McPherson, David Glantz, Dennis Showalter, Christopher Duffy and David Chandler. [...] 10850 149 11_Re: Hey Sam8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:44:10 +0200404_US-ASCII Also, Sam, I can't speak highly enough of Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey and Maturin series. Just wonderful stuff. The best historical novels ever written, bar none.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:51 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Hey Sam [...] 11000 44 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:13:08 -0700511_us-ascii Sue wrote: Any payments for construction and improvements of land?

Better be careful with that one -- the Palestinians may ask for payments for land and improvements taken away from them.

Sharon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 11045 178 31_Re: The Other side fo the story17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:18:28 +0200462_us-ascii



No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 01/06/2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 11224 112 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 11:34:17 EDT604_US-ASCII Dear Heidi I truly appreciate the fine level of nuance you have brought to this painful and divisive struggle "bull-dooky" certainly a new form of "right-speech" as created by perhaps George Orwell in 1984?

Yaalon's recent diatribe only adds to everyone's pain and certainly exposes his as well, but the only thing it proves beyond a doubt is that there is no monolithic opinion on the best and most secure way to move forward - that does not automatically imply though that we must not move forward anyway. Staying where we are is certainly guaranteed to only degrade the situation [...] 11337 67 51_Who is a Jew? (was FW: Re: my reply to your idiocy)0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 08:39:23 -0700383_us-ascii Excerpted (and reformatted) from the rather impolite exchange between Pearl and Richard:

Pearl: "Most Israelis understand that they are a high quality population..."

Richard: Ayrian I suppose?

Pearl: I have long suspected that you are not Jewish. Now I am sure.

Richard: In the same spirit I won't deny your accusation that I am not Jewish. [...] 11405 281 31_Re: The Other side fo the story8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:06:11 +0200617_us-ascii Heidi, nobody changes their mind here. The standard procedure is that someone sends in an article or posting on the territories/Palestinians/hitnatkut/whatever, somebody else objects to something and the fun begins. The tones rise, the level of discourse drops and all the folks express their usual point of view. Sometimes I feel like I could write them myself, I've become so familiar with peoples' opinions, styles and prejudices. One day I'll make a chart. Anyhow, the whole battle rages for a day or two and then everyone calms down until the next time. Nobody's mind is altered but those who feel [...] 11687 160 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:17:15 +0000355_- Hiam said: "Heidi are you suggesting that because of this particular General's opinion we should remain occupiers of others."

I think Heidi was replying to a post which suggested that the Army leadership all supported the disengagement, snd not suggesting that the occupation is OK. But I could be wrong.

Richard (a goyisha observer) [...] 11848 197 31_Re: The Other side fo the story12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 12:18:58 -0700395_iso-8859-1 Actually- I have changed my mind sometimes, and more often than not, I have been made to think about "the other side of the story"---But the true value of this venue is connection to people who have a certain history and philosophy--Let me tell you, though, I also have learned not to answer some things because I know who and what the responses will be--All in fun, though..sue [...] 12046 125 31_Re: The Other side fo the story13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:37:17 +0200642_iso-8859-1 you forgot to add the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and Richard Gere. ----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:30 AM Subject: Re: The Other side fo the story



In a message dated 06/06/2005 3:39:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes: I didn't see Yavin's production (they should try and sell it to HBO), and I was very moved by Hiam's posting; and I feel that there is probably no one on this list who favors the suffering and dehumanization of the "regular" Palestinian citizen, be he/she man, woman, child. And I am [...] 12172 46 9_the crazy13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:52:40 +0200452_windows-1255 sam, "they" did not kill rabin. It was a man from Herzliya who murdered him.

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 12219 343 19_Judy, you are right13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:46:19 +0200317_iso-8859-1 Judy, you are right. It was only after I sent the letter out that I realized I wrote g'shtupt instead of f'shtupt. (Is this exchange of letters believable??)

I ate too much and feel f'shtupt. my head is f'shtupt with nonsense. I can't shtup any more into my head or my stomach. I am f'shtuppt! [...] 12563 203 28_Disengagement:: Maariv today13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:56:07 +0200633_windows-1255 Quotes from today's Ma'ariv (my translation): The quotes are taken from a book "Division of the Land," written by the reporter Ari Shavit. ....he spoke to tens of key players in government, academia, and army... The result, as related in the book.... is very surprising. Even though all 33 interviewees are from widely diverse professions and political sides, almost all of them arrive at the same conclusion: the disengagement may lead to very difficult results. They fear a renewal of the violence and terror, foresee the collapse of stable factors in the Palestinian entity and foretell that kassam rockets will [...] 12767 183 39_Re: yavin's movie, the left, and ......13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:57:06 +0200402_iso-8859-1 sam, I do not watch tv and did not see the program and do not plan to because I am not at home when it is on. I refuse to comment on a program I did not see. I can not judge it in any way if I did not see it. sorry. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:38 AM Subject: Re: yavin's movie, the left, and ...... [...] 12951 96 4_Cass13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 22:14:26 +0200382_iso-8859-1 Dropping the Baumyup, she was jewish. proof? Her parents lived in an apt in south Miami Beach. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:21 AM Subject: Dropping the Baum



Jews who Rock. Ok, I guess I can live with the fact that Gene Simmons was Chaim Witz, but Mama Cass was Ellen Cohen? [...] 13048 60 32_Re: Disengagement:: Maariv today0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:27:10 EDT504_US-ASCII Pearl.

What you just published is real news and real quotes from I real source. This is worth reading and tracking down.

The stuff that Steve posted before had no source.

Sam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 13109 91 13_Re: the crazy0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:30:08 EDT583_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/07/2005 3:40:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

sam, "they" did not kill rabin. It was a man from Herzliya who murdered him.



Excuse me Pearl

I saw the videos of the people in the streets Kiryat Arbah dancing in the streets. I watched you try to spread rumors about how the Shabak killed him. The blood Rabin is on the hands of the right. I think as soon as we can move past that one we will all feel a little better. Moreover it will help if you take a breather from your politicking for [...] 13201 119 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:39:07 EDT577_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/07/2005 1:08:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Heidi, nobody changes their mind here.

I think that minds do occasionally change. After I read something that has merit I think about it. People at the very least need to come to terms with the fact that other people disagree with them. And people remember. You Jon, voted for Bush. I feel the pain of that every day as new cuts come into the programs I work with and as new crazy things are implemented. You will again have a chance to vote in PA on the [...] 13321 126 31_Re: The Other side fo the story13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:38:35 -0400581_us-ascii Not all of us, including me, have predetermined positions on every subject so I may not /change/ my mind very often but I regularly get input on Habonet that helps me form my opinions and up my mind. And, Jon, you fall into the category of people that I usually read pretty carefully because underneath that hardened, cynical Sabra facade is some very cogent analysis and sechol (Richard--translates as "common sense") mixed with your old cynical Mt Airy sense of the absurd. I won't name all my other favorite Habonet opinion makers for fear of leaving someone out. [...] 13448 103 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:51:19 +0000359_- I myself have changed my mind very frequently. On recent issues, for example, I supported the Iraq war when it began. The change in my opinion was partly due to things I read on Habonet. More generally I have floated all over the political landscape since the 70s. I went from socialist, to libertarian, Democrat to Republican to Democrat and so on... [...] 13552 127 13_Re: the crazy13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:00:52 +0200544_iso-8859-1 Sam, I would condemn them if I knew who they were. We are just told there are threats, but no one knows who they are exactly. I am not prepared to guess, as you seem to be ready to do. The shabak has its provocateurs, as we all know, so i give the benefit of the doubt. I did not spread rumours of the shabak killing Rabin. I wrote that the Rabin family asked for further investigation into rabin's death, based on two books written about the subject. They themselves were not satisfied with the official reports. It's over and [...] 13680 107 11_Re: Hey Sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:03:36 EDT358_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/07/2005 10:20:35 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Thanks Sam, read that one. I'd also recommend his "Krakatoa." He also wrote a book on the writing of the Oxford English Dictionary: "The Professor and the Madman" which I liked a lot.

I read Kraktoa and I want to get the Oxford one... [...] 13788 84 13_Re: the crazy0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:10:56 EDT306_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/07/2005 5:03:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Sam, I would condemn them if I knew who they were. We are just told there are threats, but no one knows who they are exactly. I am not prepared to guess, as you seem to be ready to do. [...] 13873 121 20_reply: Who is a Jew?13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 23:11:02 +0200539_iso-8859-1 for god's sake, what is wrong with saying that a particular population is of high quality? They are indeed. Do I have to bring quotes to prove that too? What if I had written that the kids in Camp Mosh were of high quality? Is that offensive too? I wrote the comment about richard in a PRIVATE POSTING to him which he chose to make public. If you read it carefully you realize it was written "tongue in cheek," and was a direct response to his remark about aryanism, which I found extremely offensive. It was meant to be a [...] 13995 59 20_Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:21:07 EDT326_US-ASCII Pearl you have sent us an article quoting Ami Ayalon and his opposition to the Hitnakut. Does this mean that you are in agreement with Ami Ayalon's position on the Palestinians and the settlements? If you are willing to endorse the Ami Ayalon approach publicly here, I might just change my mind on the Hitnakut. [...] 14055 162 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:51:28 -0700586_us-ascii Pearl- Since many of us on this list so often misinterpret your posts as being serious, when, so you say, you are joking, it would be helpful if you would employ the commonly used netiquette of smiley faces :-) to clue us in. Check out members.aol.com/bearpage/smileys.htm, for example.

And what is wrong with saying a particular population is of high quality is the clear implication that other populations are not of high quality. In other words, that some people are better than others. Every person has equal value, and to say otherwise is, frankly, offensive. [...] 14218 41 24_Sharon and Disengagement0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:56:15 -0700308_us-ascii So I have a serious question here. So many on the right are opposed to disengagement and think it will lead to a worsening of the situation, so why is Sharon doing it? He is alienating his base of support and his opponents won't turn into supporters over this issue. What does he have to gain? [...] 14260 78 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:13:55 EDT420_US-ASCII

Pearl,

Do you really not get it? So if a particular population is 'high quality'...what does that mean in regard to the people deemed not in that esteemed elite? Are they to be treated differently as human beings...maybe less then the 'high qualifiers'? Think about the implications of your remark.

mm

what is wrong with saying that a particular population is of high quality? [...] 14339 54 19_looking for someone0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:57:42 EDT507_US-ASCII I am trying to contact Marty Rabinovitz in the Chicago area. Marty, are you a member of Habonet? Anyone out there, can you get in touch w/him? It is a time sensitive matter. Thanks in advance. Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 14394 52 23_Re: looking for someone12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:06:17 -0700628_iso-8859-1 Ellen- go to the Habonim/dror foundation website. Then go to the "People finder" section. He probably has an email address- they will forward any email to Marty, then he will answer- this happened to me- it is a great "people" source.- Sue

--- Emabear@AOL.COM wrote:

> I am trying to contact Marty Rabinovitz in the > Chicago area. Marty, are you > a member of Habonet? Anyone out there, can you get > in touch w/him? It is a > time sensitive matter. > Thanks in advance. > Ellen > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by [...] 14447 127 31_Re: The Other side fo the story11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:41:11 -0400413_iso-8859-1 MessageWhile Jon is right that there are certainly patterns and predictable responses, I agree with others that sometimes I change my mind about an issue, and I surely learn a lot, and not just from those with whom I agree.

Welcome

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:06 PM Subject: Re: The Other side fo the story [...] 14575 35 22_Re: a goyisha observer11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:43:17 -0400622_iso-8859-1 Great name for either a rock and roll band or perhaps a new magazine

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:17 PM Subject: Re: The Other side fo the story



> Hiam said: "Heidi are you suggesting that because of this particular > General's opinion we should remain occupiers of others." > > I think Heidi was replying to a post which suggested that the Army > leadership all supported the disengagement, snd not suggesting that the > occupation is OK. But I could be wrong. > > Richard (a goyisha observer) [...] 14611 259 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 19:58:10 -0400403_iso-8859-1 Pearl,

Perhaps you could grant the benefit of the doubt as you so often claim you do and think about the possibility that Richard was using the expression as a shock treatment in response to your assertion of the superiority of a certain group?

If you send rude things to people in response to a posting on a public forum, do not be surprised if they expose your behavior. [...] 14871 63 22_Re: a goyisha observer12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:00:00 -0700574_iso-8859-1 The name has already been taken by the L.A. TImes!-sue

--- Noam Stopak wrote:

> Great name for either a rock and roll band or > perhaps a new magazine > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:17 PM > Subject: Re: The Other side fo the story > > > > Hiam said: "Heidi are you suggesting that because > of this particular > > General's opinion we should remain occupiers of > others." > > > > I think Heidi was replying to a post which [...] 14935 164 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:05:30 -0400709_us-ascii Maybe someone else can give us insight into this but it is my observation that Israelis--progressive, center, right, religious--are a lot more comfortable with this kind of judgmental language than we Americans are. I have frequently heard the terms "problematic families" used to describe single parent households and "problematic population" to refer to what we might call a "lower socio economic community". We Americans tend to be more objectively descriptive of the situation--eg, intact, higher socioeconomic status families--whereas Israelis (educators,politicians and social workers included) tend to be more evaluative--eg high quality population. I am not defending this-- I find this [...] 15100 56 31_Re: The Other side fo the story12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:26:22 -0400398_us-ascii Judy wrote: >Jon, you fall into the category of people that I usually read pretty >carefully because underneath that hardened, cynical Sabra facade is some >very cogent analysis and sechol (Richard--translates as "common sense") >mixed with your old cynical Mt Airy sense of the absurd.

With all due respect, Judy, I think the word you meant to use was seykhl, not sechol. ;-) [...] 15157 96 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 00:32:47 +0000331_- I had no idea it was a private posting. My fault there, upon looking back on it I see it was but on my e-mail page it just gives the name of the sender and never says Habonet so I assumed it was from Habonet and couldn't figure out why when I replied it was sent just to Pearl, which is why my reply to Habonet is fowarded. [...] 15254 111 31_Re: The Other side fo the story13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:35:35 -0400587_us-ascii Never was any good at spelling, esp when transliterating a language with sounds WASPs can't even make when they gargle. Judy



David Fleiss wrote:

> Judy wrote: > >> Jon, you fall into the category of people that I usually read pretty >> carefully because underneath that hardened, cynical Sabra facade is >> some very cogent analysis and *sechol *(Richard--translates as >> "common sense") mixed with your old cynical Mt Airy sense of the absurd. > > > With all due respect, Judy, I think the word you meant to use was > seykhl, not sechol. ;-) > > Or [...] 15366 172 32_Re: Disengagement:: Maariv today11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 7 Jun 2005 21:37:16 -0400632_windows-1255 So what do you propose Pearl? Continuing to rule over a captive population? Creation of a 10km security zone similar to the situation in southern Lebanon? And another 10km to secure that zone? How much land is enough?

While there are problems with withdrawal, I think they pale in comparison with the problems of continuing to try to support islands of settlement surrounded by a hostile population. If you conclude that the Palestinians will only respond to force, are you surprised when they draw similar conclusions? Surely you don't wish to see the current violent situation continue for generations on [...] 15539 198 31_Re: The Other side fo the story8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 06:53:17 +0200476_US-ASCII Sorry Sam. I checked it out. Overseas Pennsylvanians can only vote in presidential elections.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 10:39 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: The Other side fo the story





In a message dated 06/07/2005 1:08:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes: [...] 15738 346 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:41:22 +0200567_US-ASCII Judy, I\m not qualified to comment on all sectors of Israeli society but I do know that the ethos (if that's the right word) of seeking members of "quality groups" is very strong in Zahal and I would think that it flows into other areas. In the States, the common ideal is that of the "melting pot" theory, even if it isn't usually carried out. Commanders of American units like to have a "good mix" that reflects a certain diversity. It's a little different in Zahal. Because we have conscription, army manpower reflects a much wider range of types of [...] 16085 210 31_Re: The Other side fo the story8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:44:29 +0200645_US-ASCII Cynical? Do you think so? I like to consider myself an "enlightened pessimist." Anyhow, thank you Judy.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 10:39 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: The Other side fo the story



Not all of us, including me, have predetermined positions on every subject so I may not change my mind very often but I regularly get input on Habonet that helps me form my opinions and up my mind. And, Jon, you fall into the category of people that I usually read [...] 16296 48 23_Re: looking for someone0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:12:52 EDT497_US-ASCII Ellen and anyone else who is looking for Marty,

Marty Rabinovitz' email address is martyrab@sbcglobal.net

Aliya

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 16345 413 14_Eloquent Piece0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 03:21:43 EDT665_UTF-8 Dear Habonet,

The writing piece below is from Hannah Greenstein, one of our maapilim from Mosh; she and her husband Moishe are rabbinical students at the Jewish Theological Seminary.

If you wish to write to Hannah with any sentiments, her email address is hannahgreenstein@hotmail.com

Aliya

Subject: Our trip to Germany

For those of who do not know, Moishe and I just participated in a trip to Germany called Bridge of Understanding with some of our other rabbinical school classmates. This is one of many “Bridge” trips sponsored by the German government in order to forge connections between the Jewish community [...] 16759 58 21_Habonet immune system12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:26:32 +0200519_windows-1255 Could someone please tell me if my postings are getting through, despite the regular objections of Symantec (was there ever a solution posted for this problem?) I receive them but does anyone else? Thanks, Jessie

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 16818 130 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 05:59:34 -0400558_us-ascii Thank you! While I wa somewhat aware of this attitude in Zahal, I didn't connect it up to the general societal attitude. Judy



Jon Baum wrote:

> Judy, I\m not qualified to comment on all sectors of Israeli society > but I do know that the ethos (if that's the right word) of seeking > members of "quality groups" is very strong in Zahal and I would think > that it flows into other areas. In the States, the common ideal is > that of the "melting pot" theory, even if it isn't usually carried > out. Commanders of American [...] 16949 123 25_Re: Habonet immune system8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:49:10 +0200582_us-ascii It showed up on my computer, Jessie. I also get a warning from Symantec when I send to Habonet.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Jessica Bonn Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 11:27 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Habonet immune system



Could someone please tell me if my postings are getting through, despite the regular objections of Symantec (was there ever a solution posted for this problem?) I receive them but does anyone else? Thanks, Jessie _____ [...] 17073 100 25_Re: Habonet immune system0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:40:33 +0000401_- I do









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 17174 88 35_Quality population--Haaretz article13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:52:10 -0400 17263 192 31_Re: The Other side fo the story17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:17:39 +0200524_us-ascii



Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 01/06/2005

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 17456 1344 17_[QUAR]Deep Throat8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:29:59 +0200633_us-ascii I thought those of us who made it through the Nixon years might find this analysis of Deep Throat interesting.

Jon



THE GEOPOLITICAL INTELLIGENCE REPORT

The Motives of Deep Throat June 07, 2005 17 56 GMT

By George Friedman

The United States (or at least its Baby Boomers) has been gripped by the revelation that the fabled Deep Throat, the person who provided the legendary Woodward and Bernstein the guidance needed to cover the Watergate scandal, was Mark Felt, a senior official in the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In spite of the claims of some, Felt was never high on [...] 18801 171 12_Factionalism12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:17:47 +0200396_us-ascii Haverot/im In response to some of the pearls of wisdom that have appeared here recently; This is a reprint of an article in Ha'aretz of several months ago after the IDF using excessive force broke up a demonstration of protestors, Palestinians and Jews against the separation fence.The author,Ze'ev Sternhell is the Leon Blum professor of political science at the Hebrew University [...] 18973 81 25_Re: Habonet immune system12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 07:50:41 -0700602_iso-8859-1 Me too; I sent them a reply but never heard back- this is VERY annoying...sue

--- Jon Baum wrote:

> It showed up on my computer, Jessie. I also get a > warning from Symantec when > I send to Habonet. > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh > [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On > Behalf Of Jessica Bonn > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 11:27 AM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: Habonet immune system > > > Could someone please tell me if my postings are > getting through, despite the > regular objections [...] 19055 20 31_Re: The Other side fo the story0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 11:05:03 -0400522_iso-8859-1 I will see if I can get you an absentee ballot. I do believe anyone can send in an absetee ballot if you are overseas. I may be wrong. But my kid voted in local elections even while serving in TzahaL.

sam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 19076 37 25_Re: Habonet immune system0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:02:30 -0700360_us-ascii I've been getting the message also.

Sharon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

19114 63 25_Re: Habonet immune system0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:07:03 EDT542_US-ASCII

In a message dated 6/8/2005 12:02:39 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV writes:

I've been getting the message also.



me 2

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 19178 42 25_Re: Habonet immune system19_lfmarsh@verizon.net19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:13:32 -0500787_ISO646-US >From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET >Date: Wed Jun 08 06:40:33 CDT 2005 >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG >Subject: Re: Habonet immune system

>I do > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by >Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, >a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and >an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > >To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > >Could someone please tell me if my postings are getting through, despite the regular objections of Symantec (was there ever a solution posted for this problem?)? I receive them but does anyone else?Thanks,Jessie >The HABONET mailing list is hosted byShamash: [...] 19221 58 23_A Cry of Despair/ JPost11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 14:52:28 -0500548_ISO-8859-1 A cry of despair



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ESTHER WACHSMAN, THE JERUSALEM POST Jun. 7, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't figured out yet whether we live in Chelm, the fictional town known for its obtuseness; Sodom, the biblical town known for its wickedness, or the Orwellian country of 1984, where lies are truths, enemies are friends, and wrong is right. Maybe it's all of the above. [...] 19280 85 49_Re: Habonet immune system-Can Anyone do anything?12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 12:37:28 -0700691_iso-8859-1 Can the listserve manager do anything about this?--It is really annoying..and I would hate to scan through 2,000 emails saying "me too" (I am slo guilty)--Sue



--- "lfmarsh@verizon.net" wrote:

> >From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET > >Date: Wed Jun 08 06:40:33 CDT 2005 > >To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > >Subject: Re: Habonet immune system > > >I do > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > >Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > >a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > >an online MA in Jewish Studies, > [...] 19366 105 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:48:35 +0200588_iso-8859-1 comparatively, they are a high-quality population. Just a statement, nothing to write editorials about. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mmxmm@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:13 AM Subject: Re: reply: Who is a Jew?



Pearl,

Do you really not get it? So if a particular population is 'high quality'...what does that mean in regard to the people deemed not in that esteemed elite? Are they to be treated differently as human beings...maybe less then the 'high qualifiers'? Think about the implications of your remark. [...] 19472 88 28_Re: Sharon and Disengagement13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:49:56 +0200591_iso-8859-1 one reason is he wants to gain legitimacy from opponents. It's his last stand before he fades away. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:56 PM Subject: Sharon and Disengagement





So I have a serious question here. So many on the right are opposed to disengagement and think it will lead to a worsening of the situation, so why is Sharon doing it? He is alienating his base of support and his opponents won't turn into supporters over this issue. What does he have to gain? [...] 19561 256 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 23:56:54 +0200650_iso-8859-1 sharon: we all know that there is a vast population in this country that you and others on this list would not want to live next door to. Me too. We have more than our share of dope addicts, thieves, thugs,thieves, muggers, thieves, parasites, drunks, thieves, sex offenders, and other unsavory types. So, when I wrote "high-quality population," i meant a population relatively free of these types of people. Doesn't mean people aren't equal, just that there are some types nobody wants as neighbors. ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 11:51 PM Subject: [...] 19818 45 25_Re: Habonet immune system0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:04:07 EDT376_US-ASCII me 3

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 19864 115 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:05:16 +0200512_iso-8859-1 Sam i am sorry, but i do not know if the hitnakut is good or bad for the jews. I am just very saddened by it, and hope that the problems can be solved with the least amount of trauma. My main problem with it is that it is one-sided and we get NO political or military gain from it. It is more like total surrender. Like we have flown the white flag. The Arabs do not have to give anything, yet get everything. People are living in fear of the next kassam falling on them, people are being killed [...] 19980 128 13_Re: the crazy13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:15:49 +0200571_iso-8859-1 sam, we have not heard threats from people who want to kill sharon. Maybe in Pittsburgh you hear threats? "the" settlers did not dance in the streets when rabin was killed. We heard of a few kids who were young and foolish and "did not know Rabin" who did so": only heard, did not see. The entire country was traumatized by his death, including "the" settlers. You are blaming an entire population because of a few teenagers. Remember that much of what the settlers were blamed for was the work of provocateurs like Avishai Raviv who did untold damage to [...] 20109 729 24_Re: reply: Who is a Jew?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:29:36 -0700359_us-ascii Where does the doctor or the professor who beats his wife and/or children fall under this scenario. Is he a quality person because he has a degree in something "impressive?" What about the "white color" criminal, is he a quality person? I don't think so.

A better way to approach this would have been to say people who are not criminals. [...] 20839 222 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:34:46 -0400399_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:05:16 +0200 Subject: Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl



Sam i am sorry, but i do not know if the hitnakut is good or bad for the jews. I am just very saddened by it, and hope that the problems can be solved with the least amount of trauma. [...] 21062 159 32_Re: Disengagement:: Maariv today13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:35:15 +0200329_windows-1255 if anyone would have called for sharon's head publicly he would be in jail already. If I would write in this list something similar the shabak would be knocking on my door at 3 a.m. as for the stickers, I have not seen one calling for a bad end to Sharon. I think most people are willing to let god punish him. [...] 21222 257 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 15:35:29 -0700379_iso-8859-1 Pearl, Your comments lost validity when you included the word stupid in your description. Nave is possibly a legitimate observation, but calling any of us stupid is a judgmental call and out of place. BTW, the same goes for the rest of us. Lets leave these comments out of our group and maybe we could have a quality (oops, here is that word again) discussion. [...] 21480 105 13_Re: the crazy0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 18:39:49 -0400537_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 00:15:49 +0200 Subject: Re: the crazy



sam, we have not heard threats from people who want to kill sharon.

You need to read the Israeli press. It is nice that you have started with Ma-ariv. It is no secret that security services have received repeated threats on Sharon's life and the are believed to be coming from the right. I would not make this stuff up Pearl. [...] 21586 23 12_Travel Agent11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 16:29:12 -0700478_us-ascii Hi, If anyone has a contact for a good travel agent in Israel I would love to get it.

Thanks, Batel

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 21610 328 32_Re: Disengagement:: Maariv today11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 20:09:05 -0400628_windows-1255 At the risk of repeating myself...

So what do you propose Pearl? Continuing to rule over a captive population? Creation of a 10km security zone similar to the situation in southern Lebanon? And another 10km to secure that zone? How much land is enough?

While there are problems with withdrawal, I think they pale in comparison with the problems of continuing to try to support islands of settlement surrounded by a hostile population. If you conclude that the Palestinians will only respond to force, are you surprised when they draw similar conclusions? Surely you don't wish to see the current [...] 21939 55 16_Re: Travel Agent0_15_Moshava@AOL.COM28_Wed, 8 Jun 2005 21:16:01 EDT595_US-ASCII travel agent in israel

mark.feldman@ziontours.co.il or markzion@netvision.net.il

he's in jerusalem, merkaz hair.



Tammy Schmidt, Registrar Habonim Dror Camp Moshava www.camphabonimdrormoshava.org

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 21995 157 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:01:56 +0000364_- Exactly, all this fear and violence and the settlements are there. What is gained by them being there if this is all happening and they are there? Many of us who favor disengagement, favor it not because the Palestinians deserve it but rather because the Israelis are not only not made safer by the settlements existence but in fact are endangered by them. [...] 22153 19 16_Re: Travel Agent12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 05:33:32 +0200447_iso-8859-1 Also Ruthie Sopher of Ayala Tours, 500-6669 (switchboard 500-6666). Trudy

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 22173 719 42_: Labor Party Contest Becomes Bitter Fight13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 07:06:40 -0400 22893 215 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 09:31:07 -0400554_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 02:01:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl



Exactly, all this fear and violence and the settlements are there. What is gained by them being there if this is all happening and they are there? Many of us who favor disengagement, favor it not because the Palestinians deserve it but rather because the Israelis are not only not made safer by the settlements existence but in fact are endangered by them. [...] 23109 769 46_Re: : Labor Party Contest Becomes Bitter Fight0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 14:53:29 +0000434_- Cant get it without being registered.









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 23879 64 34_High Court ruling on DIsengagement13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:56:14 -0400360_us-ascii Here is what the Supreme Court of Israel has to say about YESHA-- The 11-judge panel, headed by Chief Justice Aharon Barak, also determined that "Judea and Samaria [West Bank] and the Gaza area are lands seized during warfare, and are not part of Israel."

For more on the ruling, see-- http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/586419.html [...] 23944 146 28_Re: Sharon and Disengagement17_Sheldon and Heidi21_shelheid@ACTCOM.CO.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:51:48 +0200524_us-ascii



Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 01/06/2005

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 24091 203 16_A Cry of Despair12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 20:31:13 +0200518_us-ascii Haverim/ot

I don't know Esther Wachsman who wrote the Jerusalem Post piece "A Cry of Despair" And now, having read it, if I had a chance to meet her I would politely turn it down. I don't like chicken little's cackling oy veys over every catastrophe real or imagined. No Esther, I do not believe that the sky is about to make a crash landing and wonder what psychological payoff you lust for when you insist that it will. Despair is not my agenda nor is hyperbole my preferred mode. Esther wrote: [...] 24295 196 0_12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:10:55 +0200565_us-ascii Subject: A Cry of Despair



I don't know Esther Wachsman who wrote the Jerusalem Post piece "A Cry of Despair" And now, having read it, if I had a chance to meet her I would politely turn it down. I don't like chicken little's trumpeting oy veys over every catastrophe real or imagined. No Esther, I do not believe that the sky is about to make a crash landing and wonder what psychological payoff you lust for when you insist that it will. Despair is not my agenda nor is hyperbole my preferred mode. Esther wrote: I haven't figured out [...] 24492 112 28_Re: Sharon and Disengagement13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 15:30:38 -0400576_iso-8859-1 I would like to point out that the correct Hebrew word for "disengagement" is hitnaTkut (reflexive/hitpa'el for n-t-k, to separate or to sever), and not 'hinatkut' or 'hitnakut' as most people have been transliterating it on Habonet.

Whatever his real motives, I believe Sharon is wise to push for it now and I, for one, support him wholeheartedly on this; better late than never. As for the future, it is hard to tell, since I am not convinced this limited first step will even come to pass as envisioned by him. I hope it does, but I'll wait and see. [...] 24605 272 32_Re: Disengagement:: Maariv today13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:35:35 +0200570_windows-1255 90% or more of the Arabs live under Palestinian rule. Tens of thousands worried about moving to Israel so they could live under Israeli rule rather than PLO rule. They overflowed into East Jerusalem because of this. ; So how bad were we for them. The PLO leadership brought in from Tunisia has done in the indigenous population and its leaders. The Arabs are angry at us for having let in the Tunisians who have drained the society dry, caused friction, stolen the money meant for them, and have brought a reign of terror to Arab society. There has to [...] 24878 148 13_Re: the crazy13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:38:00 +0200454_iso-8859-1 sam, i read three israeli newspapers a day, the bane of my life i assure you. I have not heard anyone threatening sharon. I am sure there are people who would like to see him dead. but we do not hear them. so the shabak hears them, but we do not know who they are. You can assume whatever you want. ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 12:39 AM Subject: Re: the crazy [...] 25027 322 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:43:56 +0200535_iso-8859-1 sam, the settlers were sent by the government -- they did not go there of their own volition. The idea was to be a "chetz" between Israel and the arabs of Aza. The army has already announced that they plan to keep an army presence in one of the settlements that is being evacuated because it is necessary for security. don't remember which. sounds like security to me. ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 12:34 AM Subject: Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl [...] 25350 107 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 16:56:18 -0400635_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: Pearl Skolnik To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 10:43:56 +0200 Subject: Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl



sam, the settlers were sent by the government -- they did not go there of their own volition

Sent by the government not of their own volition - removed by the government not of their own volition. That sounds like everything is going the way it should. The settlers were sent there without having any say in it and they will leave that way too. Poor folks had no choice going in and they get no choice going out. [...] 25458 147 15_esther wachsman13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:28:37 +0200595_windows-1255 Esther Wachsman is the mother of Nachshon Wachsman, who was murdered together with Nir Poraz by terrorists. Nachshon was kidnapped by terrorists and was killed as the commandos led by Nir broke into the house where Nachshon was being kept. He was killed on a Friday night. Two days earlier some 100,000 people made their way to the Kotel to pray for Nachshon's safety. The terrorists had given an ultimatum to Israel that was to be met by Friday night or they would kill Nachshon. Friday evening hundreds of people gathered in the street near Nachshon's home, waiting to learn [...] 25606 152 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:30:40 +0200318_iso-8859-1 Sam i am not going to answer, because on this list people check if every "i" is dotted and every "t" is crossed. It's time to cast stones elsewhere.... ----- Original Message ----- From: smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:56 PM Subject: Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl [...] 25759 26 19_Re: esther wachsman0_25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:37:44 -0400537_us-ascii > In all the years I have lived here, I do not recall a similar > traumatic experience as Nachshon's death was to the entire > country.

This was indeed a sad day. But I have to say that I recall two days that I recall as equally traumatic: One was the murder of Rabin, and the other, some years earlier, was the murder of Emil Grunzweig. I was at that demonstration and had left, with my Garin, only moments before that grenade was tossed - hoping to beat the post-Hatikva rush. I remember the hatred in the eyes of [...] 25786 53 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 17:39:29 EDT498_US-ASCII I was struck by the words, "because the Palestinians deserve it." Could someone please explain what have the Palestinians done to deserve getting the land back? I am open to learning. Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 25840 103 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:59:13 +0000382_- Ellen, you wrote: "I was struck by the words, "because the Palestinians deserve it." Could someone please explain what have the Palestinians done to deserve getting the land back? I am open to learning. Ellen"

Perhaps if you included the word that came before the because it would make more sense? The word was "not"; as in, "not because the Palestinians deserve it." [...] 25944 93 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:04:30 EDT597_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/09/2005 5:31:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Sam i am not going to answer, because on this list people check if every "i" is dotted and every "t" is crossed. It's time to cast stones elsewhere....



Ok Pearl. I suspect the reason you are not answering is that you don't know who he is and what he stands for. I found it pretty funny that you are quoting him, because I do suspect his reasons for opposing the disengagement are very different from yours. I could be wrong. You say you read the Israeli papers [...] 26038 67 7_Lebanon13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 21:34:07 -0400492_us-ascii I am wondering how Israelis currently view the unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon. There was a lot of criticism before it happened and during the withdrawal as well, esp when there were attacks on troops as they withdrew. At the beginning of the intifada, I read pundits who said it was related to the perceived "weakness" Israel showed by leaving unilaterally. Is that still a view out there in some sectors? Today, does anyone argue that Israel should have stayed in Lebanon? [...] 26106 45 24_Re: Ami Ayalon and Pearl0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:30:59 EDT389_US-ASCII thank you Richard

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 26152 186 11_Re: Lebanon0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Thu, 9 Jun 2005 22:33:20 EDT621_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/09/2005 9:32:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:

I am wondering how Israelis currently view the unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon. There was a lot of criticism before it happened and during the withdrawal as well, esp when there were attacks on troops as they withdrew. At the beginning of the intifada, I read pundits who said it was related to the perceived "weakness" Israel showed by leaving unilaterally. Is that still a view out there in some sectors? Today, does anyone argue that Israel should have stayed in Lebanon? Judy: I am sure that there are [...] 26339 59 19_Re: esther wachsman0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 00:24:02 EDT546_US-ASCII Esther Wachsman and I were fellow students in a very small chug on the Master's level at Hebrew U. She is a very special person - went through "shmirat herayon" - lying flat on her bed for 3 months of an almost lost pregnancy in order to have her first child. Most important, Esther was very very pluralistic for an extremely Orthodox woman. She knew I was from Habonim and what was important to her was my fervent Zionism as an olah chadasha, and the feeling we shared for the Israel that could be in the future. From everything I [...] 26399 56 59_Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assasination0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 08:17:38 -0400624_us-ascii There has been a lot of talk of late, not only here, of which former security officials in Israel are for and against the disengagement. The Gush Katif folks are using the words of Avi Dichter, former Shin Bet director, and fomer chielf of staff Ya'alom as their main reference points this week. Well, they lost Avi Dichter today - Ha'aretz (link below) reports that "despite the difficulties - which, he said, include the likelihood that some right-wing extremists will not hesitate to fire on soldiers and policemen - Dichter believes the disengagement will be implemented." Referring to Ya'alon's statement [...] 26456 494 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:27:41 -0400597_us-ascii Good point. One shouldn't selectively cite military, security, and intelligence experts. But I read your citation differently than you do, ken.

First of all Dichter says it will be "implemented." That is not a value judgment on the disengagement (which by the way I support) but an analysis of the likely probabilities. My own assessment is that the state (and for the sake of argument, I would say the same thing about any nation state) will not have any choice but to force this through, and that as settler opposition escalates so will the defenders of the state, i.e. the [...] 26951 63 20_brian, you are right13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:29:21 +0200587_windows-1255 shalom, The earthquake caused by Rabin's murder, which, indeed, was an extremely traumatic experience for us all, was an oversight on my part as I was writing about Nachshon. It was a different type of experience, because we were all in tremendous stress for days hoping against hope that Nachshon would be saved. Therefore, when he was killed, the whole nation went into mourning, similar to that of the mourning for Rabin in its depth. There were other differences: p eople could go to the Wachsmans and mourn with them in their home, but no one could mourn with the [...] 27015 465 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 13:41:50 -0400546_iso-8859-1 I take your comment to mean, David, that you're not very impressed with, or don't really like Matan Vilnai? I don't know him a lot, and I only hope he is a little better as a politician than Mitzna. And for that matter, a lot better overall, both ideologically and politically, than Barak or Fuad Ben Eliezer. Barak is just an idiot, IMVHO. Fuad reminds me a little bit of Motta Gur, who also did not go very far, but with the "advantage" of being from the east. Is Amir Peretz the best option, in your assessment, for the future [...] 27481 204 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:12:42 -0400666_us-ascii David - good to see you (virtually, that is).

Regarding the current Labor Party leadership battle, I have been commenting on this regularly in my Ameinu President's Forum (http://www.ameinu.net/community/forums/index.php?showforum=7).

Yesterday, I posted the comment below that speaks to this topic - Ken -------- "As I wrote last week, the primary election for the Labor Party leadership is heating up. I had the opportunity last night to hear MK Yuli Tamir speak about her support for Amir Peretz's candidacy. In thinking about her comments and other articles I have read recently, want to share with you some thoughts on this subject. [...] 27686 775 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:22:57 -0400305_us-ascii I ACTUALLY LIKE Vilna'i. I think Yitzhak Mordechai was petty to settle a score with him and block his promotion to chief of staff; this had the unintended "benefit" of launching Shaul Mofaz who, at least, backs Sharon internally within Likud, which given the situation, is I suppose, a lot. [...] 28462 459 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:18:39 +0200608_iso-8859-1 how could you say in the same breath motta Gur and fuad?--- heaven and earth, fire and water. ... no comparison. From: Yuval Warshai To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination



I take your comment to mean, David, that you're not very impressed with, or don't really like Matan Vilnai? I don't know him a lot, and I only hope he is a little better as a politician than Mitzna. And for that matter, a lot better overall, both ideologically and politically, than Barak or Fuad Ben Eliezer. [...] 28922 96 14_Re: Ami Ayalon13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:51:53 +0200482_iso-8859-1 Sam I do know who ami ayalon is: he lives in the house across from our meshek in Kerem Maharal. I had no agenda regarding any of the quotes. I translated as I saw it in Ma'ariv. I am not taking a stand on the disengagement. What will be will be. I have fears where it will lead to and that is it. ---------------- Sam i am not going to answer, because on this list people check if every "i" is dotted and every "t" is crossed. It's time to cast stones elsewhere.... [...] 29019 111 14_Re: Ami Ayalon0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:08:49 EDT426_US-ASCII

In a message dated 06/11/2005 1:52:28 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Sam I do know who ami ayalon is: he lives in the house across from our meshek in Kerem Maharal. I had no agenda regarding any of the quotes. I translated as I saw it in Ma'ariv. I am not taking a stand on the disengagement. What will be will be. I have fears where it will lead to and that is it. [...] 29131 121 30_majority against disengagement13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 20:17:24 +0200348_iso-8859-1 sam, according to the media last week, for the first time there is a slight majority against the disengagement. i was sure the government was weakening the opposition, but it seems "not yet. " ----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:08 PM Subject: Re: Ami Ayalon [...] 29253 143 29_KEEPING THE FAITH SELECTIVELY12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 21:16:11 +0200387_us-ascii I went to Shabbat services today at the Reconstructionist congregation Mevakshei Derekh (Seekers of the Path.) We used to attend our congregation more religiously, but in contra-distinction to many people who cleave more closely to religion as they grow older, Rivka and I find ourselves increasingly disenchanted with the ritual and the assumptions of organized religion. [...] 29397 149 14_Re: Ami Ayalon13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 14:02:39 -0700487_us-ascii Actually, Ami thinks the disengagement is fine but that without a negotiated settlement, it will do little by itself to lead to peace. I bet you agree with that too, Sam, but prefer disengagement to no disengagement become at least we will be out of Gaza and the need to spend military resources to protect those 7000 settlers in a sea of 1.5 mil Palestinians. It is very costly to continue to do so and both sides know that Gaza will not end up being part of Israel. Judy [...] 29547 130 14_Re: Ami Ayalon0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 19:06:02 EDT490_US-ASCII

Actually, Ami thinks the disengagement is fine but that without a negotiated settlement, it will do little by itself to lead to peace. I bet you agree with that too, Sam, but prefer disengagement to no disengagement become at least we will be out of Gaza and the need to spend military resources to protect those 7000 settlers in a sea of 1.5 mil Palestinians. It is very costly to continue to do so and both sides know that Gaza will not end up being part of Israel. [...] 29678 612 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Sat, 11 Jun 2005 23:26:14 -0400537_iso-8859-1 Kenm, interesting stuff (as always). Here's my point: there's a down side to peretz a well as an upside. problem is the downside is for sure, almost quantifiable as a number of seats that will flee because they don't care for the big unions. labor would be ceding the middle class to shinui, which may be ok, if the upside plays out as you think it might. Lova backed Barak, so what? lova, muki etc are GREAT when it comes to an internal dialogue but are not talking to the rest of Israel. It could be -- and I emphasize [...] 30291 99 31_Rabbi Karelitz and the Settlers12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 11:09:13 +0200390_us-ascii Haverim/ot

The article below "Religious Values are not Superior" is by Uzi Benziman, one of my favorite Ha'aretz columnists. I found his editorial today particularly telling because it is very similar to material in one of the chapters in my forthcoming book BUT IS IT JEWISH, Affirmations of an Unrepentant Zionist. Amnon By Uzi Benziman [] [...] 30391 17 29_old photos from Bet Ha'aravah11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Sun, 12 Jun 2005 07:33:11 -0500427_us-ascii http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-3083822,00.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 30409 310 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 08:29:37 -0400567_us-ascii Hi David:

You analyze Peretz's candidacy through two sets of lens - which voters would Labor gain and who would they lose with Peretz at the helm, and how would it impact on putting together a government. I think the third question, particularly important if you are right that Labor can not win a general election this time around, is who best to build up the party again. If the rumors are true that Vilnai and Peretz have an agreement that the they will support each other in the event of personal defeat in the leadership battle, that may be [...] 30720 2494 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 09:37:57 -0400745_us-ascii I like that rumor. Peretz has the better moustache.





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of kbob24@AOL.COM Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 8:30 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination





Hi David:





You analyze Peretz's candidacy through two sets of lens - which voters would Labor gain and who would they lose with Peretz at the helm, and how would it impact on putting together a government. I think the third question, particularly important if you are right that Labor can not win a general election this time around, is [...] 33215 2531 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:29:19 -0400631_us-ascii A survey of European politics suggests that rebuilding a social democratic party along the lines suggested by a Peretz candidacy does NOT work. In Britain, (New) Labor shifted substantially to the middle and won three elections in a row, Blair's support for the Iraq war notwithstanding. In Germany, and in France, the parties have refrained from the modernization or adapting to new economic realities and Schroeder is about to lose the Chancellery in September while the PS in Paris is split between pro and anti EU constitution factions. Remember, the PS candidate for president finished third (!) in 2002, behind [...] 35747 2575 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:06:33 +0000388_- I am someone who is so ignorant about internal Israeli politics that I haven't the foggiest idea who the people are you are talking about, but am I wrong to think that Labor's chances in the next election and who will be picked to be their leader is largly dependent on what happens with the disengagement over the next few months and progress towards peace with the Palestinians? [...] 38323 275 35_Re: Rabbi Karelitz and the Settlers0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 14:19:31 -0700743_us-ascii This friend speaks my mind.

Sharon







Amnon Hadary Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 06/12/2005 02:09 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Rabbi Karelitz and the Settlers



Haverim/ot

The article below "Religious Values are not Superior" is by Uzi Benziman, one of my favorite Ha'aretz columnists. I found his editorial today particularly telling because it is very similar to material in one of the chapters in my forthcoming book BUT IS IT JEWISH, Affirmations of an Unrepentant Zionist. Amnon By Uzi Benziman [] [...] 38599 242 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:29:07 -0700605_iso-8859-1 --- David Twersky wrote:

> A survey of European politics suggests that > rebuilding a social > democratic party along the lines suggested by a > Peretz candidacy does > NOT work. In Britain, (New) Labor shifted > substantially to the middle > and won three elections in a row, Blair's support > for the Iraq war > notwithstanding. In Germany, and in France, the > parties have refrained > from the modernization or adapting to new economic > I fear the way forward for a Labor party is not through sloganeering about socialism and unions, unions that have [...] 38842 269 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:02:05 -0400304_iso-8859-1 Sue,

Was it the unions or the grocery chains who held you hostage? My impression was the latter.

I for one think it is a sad day when union leadership is a disqualifying factor for leadership in the "labor" party. Perhaps they need to be rebranded like LZA - any ideas Ken? [...] 39112 489 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:28:29 -0400571_us-ascii Richard:

Not necessarily - there is seemingly always the feeling in Israel that you need someone who is either right wing (read - Begin or Sharon) or a former military leader (read Dayan, Weizman or Rabin) to make peace with the Arabs. Meaning you can't trust Shimon Peres because he will "give away the store" while if Begin makes peace with Egypt, it MUST be the right thing to do. Those of us left of center have to be content with knowing that Sharon literally adopted Labor's platform from the last election by proposing the disengagement plan. [...] 39602 236 48_Another innocent question from a political idiot12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:39:55 -0700553_iso-8859-1 How relevant is Labor now that the kibbutzim are going private?....sue

--- kbob24@AOL.COM wrote:

> Richard: > > Not necessarily - there is seemingly always the > feeling in Israel that you need someone who is > either right wing (read - Begin or Sharon) or a > former military leader (read Dayan, Weizman or > Rabin) to make peace with the Arabs. Meaning you > can't trust Shimon Peres because he will "give away > the store" while if Begin makes peace with Egypt, it > MUST be the right thing to do. Those of us left of > [...] 39839 84 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:42:33 EDT340_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/13/05 6:29:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:



> On the other hand, I know > they sometimes have pwoer to get the workers the > benefits they deserve; But it seems to me nowadays > that is rare, and they are beginning to become white > elephants--(apologies to Avi).. [...] 39924 243 7_to Noam12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:43:41 -0700546_iso-8859-1 I personally know of a lot of members of the grocery unions who went on to other jobs becuase the demands of the strike were too much for them...My question- how viable is a union when its own members have to go out and "cheat" for other jobs ( this happens in SAG and AFTRA as well as others)....I just feel like they may be past their time and are not really doing what they should to pressure better conditions for their workers....It would be interesting to see the numbers of the grocery strike- how many stayed for the year [...] 40168 80 8_To Avi--12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 16:45:39 -0700550_iso-8859-1 Can you come out here and organize US???...s

--- JLCAA@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 6/13/05 6:29:38 PM Eastern > Daylight Time, > fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes: > > > > On the other hand, I know > > they sometimes have pwoer to get the workers the > > benefits they deserve; But it seems to me nowadays > > that is rare, and they are beginning to become > white > > elephants--(apologies to Avi).. > > Union assets equal 25% of the value of the New York > Stock Exchange. Pretty > f--king big white elephant. > But [...] 40249 268 11_Re: to Noam11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 19:55:36 -0400455_iso-8859-1 I'm sure it was difficult and that there was attrition and that some rethought their employment as a result. I don't think that is the point. You expressed the view that the unions were the ones that held everyone hostage. From 3000 miles away it seemed to me that both sides were intransigent at times, but that on the whole the union's position was reasonable. We differed then and we differed today. That's what keeps life interesting. [...] 40518 335 64_Re: Avi Dichter on disengagement & possible Sharon assassination13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:47:52 -0400601_iso-8859-1 Ken and Richard,

I think Richard was correct in his initial assessment, in the following manner: **IF** there is a Gaza disengagement, AND **IF** the disengagement is successful (in the sense of not too many casualties, or an outright civil war, or the assassination of Sharon, etc.), there is going to be a lot of rethinking of positions in Israel. If the two conditions above do materialize, I think it is very reasonable to assume that Sharon's popularity will grow, and he will command a good electoral majority. Some on the Likud's right, perhaps lead by Bibi, may want to [...] 40854 418 52_Re: Another innocent question from a political idiot0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:52:29 -0400579_us-ascii Sue:

I'll give you my $.02 worth on your question: I am sure there are others with opinions as well. Amir Peretz is trying to make the Labor Party VERY relevant by being the representative of the workers and the disadvantaged. If he succeeds in becoming the party leader, you will definitely have a stark difference in economic policies between Labor and Likud. As David T. pointed out, that could win some votes and lose some votes. In terms of the kibbutzim, one of the outcomes of privatization is there is also less collective action as a movement. As a [...] 41273 272 11_Re: to Noam12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:42:23 -0700577_iso-8859-1 WELL- You should look at the story of runaway production in the film industry. Unions were the reason producers had to leave LA to film in locations where they could finish with the budget they were given by the networks. ( I am talking about TV films- but I know this holds true also for features) because they could not afford Teamsters and IATSE wages --this started in the late 80s, and by the mid 90's, almost 100% of production was done either in right-to-work states, or Canada, which joined onto the bandwagon. Thousands of film workers lost their jobs [...] 41546 233 52_Re: Another innocent question from a political idiot12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:45:28 -0700579_iso-8859-1 Thanks Ken; are there any other aprties which are focused on the disadvantaged and the workers?--sue

--- kbob24@AOL.COM wrote:

> Sue: > > I'll give you my $.02 worth on your question: I am > sure there are others with opinions as well. Amir > Peretz is trying to make the Labor Party VERY > relevant by being the representative of the workers > and the disadvantaged. If he succeeds in becoming > the party leader, you will definitely have a stark > difference in economic policies between Labor and > Likud. As David T. pointed out, that could win [...] 41780 38 11_Amir Peretz15_Schwartz Family23_arava_eilat@HOTMAIL.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 15:13:11 +0300610_windows-1255 I've been reading on the Habonet about wonderful Amir Peretz and his mustache. Here on the ground in Eilat I have no knowledge of his great work. The growth of the manpower companies and the Import of foreign workers and the conditions they face once here are not addressed by the "new" histadrut. Our largest employer, the hotel industry, every few years has "collective negotiation" to arrive at a "collective agreement" with the histadrut. There are no workers committees and no attempt to elect them. Most of the workers suites against the hotels are by private attorneys rather then the [...] 41819 951 23_Ariel Sharon, Mapainik?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:03:59 -0400437_ISO-8859-1 This February '05 New Republic piece by Michael Oren may go a long way towards explaining Sharon's motivation in withdrawing from Gaza. Frankly, however, I'm less concerned with his motivation than that he came to the realization that withdrawing from Gaza is better for Israel.



The New Republic Online







JERUSALEM DISPATCH True Colors by Michael B. Oren [...] 42771 22 6_Me Too12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:06:49 +0200481_us-ascii David Hi, I like your criteria for selection: "Peretz has the better moustache." I hereby tender my candidacy. Will consider Ministry of Education and Culture.

Amnon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 42794 69 10_Re: Me Too0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:15:16 EDT335_US-ASCII Amnon,

You have my vote (big deal some surprise) - Since I was born in Chicago do I still have the right (some in Chicago would have said responsibility) to vote early and often?

Please promise all of us on Habonet that as soon as the ink is dry on your book you will announce here how we can order copies. [...] 42864 88 23_Sympathize w the Bosses0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:55:16 EDT326_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/14/05 12:42:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

> Unions were the > reason producers had to leave LA to film in locations > where they could finish with the budget they were > given by the networks.

Sorry Sue, I'm not going to sympathize with the bosses. [...] 42953 56 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:21:17 -0700563_iso-8859-1 > > Independent film makers are just like sweatshop > owners - they'll go wherever > they can find the cheapest labor costs in order to > maximize profits and screw > the workers. > WRONG!!!!!!! That may be true of the studios, who set up each film as its own independent "company"-The higest paid workers on a film are the "stars"- union SAG members who are pampered and get whatever they want... Other union members- grips, electric, techies- also make good money as do everyone elese- union or not ( remember- you can take the job or not- each [...] 43010 53 10_Re: Me Too12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:24:13 -0700746_iso-8859-1 what a great idea for a reality show! Political appointees according to "moustache appeal"!!!.Think of the merchandising!!!!....Amnon- you would definitely win as Prime Minister!..sue

--- Amnon Hadary wrote:

> David Hi, > I like your criteria for selection: "Peretz has the > better moustache." I > hereby tender my candidacy. Will consider Ministry > of Education and Culture. > > Amnon > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 43064 131 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 08:57:28 -0700580_us-ascii Unions were not the reason producers left LA -- greed was. In Sue's example, the networks set the budget at such a level that the people who actually do the work on the film can't be paid a decent wage. So the production goes where wages are cheaper, and the network makes a profit on the backs of those who do the work without benefit of health insurance, pension plan, etc. This is all of a piece with broader issues of globalization, where producers of goods and services externalize the costs to the individuals, communities, and environments that they exploit. [...] 43196 147 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:29:48 -0700558_iso-8859-1 I worked in the film biz for twenty years and this is completely false. I won't argue anymore about it- but the exodus form LA was directly linked to union scales which became impossible to produce a film using those scales. (TV movies). People who are lucky enough to be involved in film-making do very well; I was paid very well, and was completely covered by health plans on each and every film I worked on, then covered by cobra when I was on hiatus in between projects. It all fell apart when things got too greedy all around, including [...] 43344 308 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:33:31 +0200557_us-ascii Sharon, leaving aside whether globalization is a good thing or not, do you think you could explain what you mean by your next to last sentence? "Externalize" means "to make external or objective, or give reality to" as in "language externalizes our thoughts." What are you trying to say?

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:57 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Sympathize w the Bosses [...] 43653 221 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 10:51:12 -0700603_us-ascii I am using the word "externalize" for moving costs that are associated with an activity to somewhere outside that activity. For example, health insurance is a cost of employing people in the US. An employer can internalize that cost by paying for the health insurance out of the company's income. An employer can externalize the cost by making employees pay for their own health insurance. An employer can go even farther in externalizing this cost by paying employees a low wage that does not give them enough income to pay for health insurance, requiring that the cost of the employee's [...] 43875 529 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:13:38 +0200467_us-ascii Ok, I get it. But still, your use of externalize and internalize - which means to make internal, personal or subjective - is incorrect. Maybe there's an economist in the house who can provide the right words?

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 7:51 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Sympathize w the Bosses [...] 44405 54 31_amir peretz and his facial hair13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:31:16 -0400559_us-ascii I didn't know what Amir Peretz looked like and so I googled his image. Very very impressive mustache! Judy http://images.google.com/images?q=amir+peretz&hl=en&btnG=Search+Images

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 44460 66 35_Re: amir peretz and his facial hair0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:31:43 EDT486_US-ASCII

looks a bit like Sadaam

I didn't know what Amir Peretz looked like and so I googled his image. Very very impressive mustache! Judy









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 44527 66 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:36:11 EDT426_US-ASCII I believe the term Sharon is looking for is cost shifting, and Walmart is the perfect example. They shift the burden of employee healthcare onto the public by not providing healthcare or paying their employees so little, they can't afford to buy healthcare coverage. As a result when an employee gets sick they end up in public hospital emergency rooms where city and state governments ultimately foot the bill. [...] 44594 54 35_Re: amir peretz and his facial hair0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:37:09 EDT450_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/14/05 4:32:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Mmxmm@AOL.COM writes:

> > looks a bit like Sadaam > >

But shorter.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 44649 108 35_Re: amir peretz and his facial hair13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:41:54 -0400631_us-ascii Saddam also has a very impressive mustache. And he provides a great example of why facial hair isn't the way to pick to a leader, even if it is a sort of basic primate criterion--the monkey with the best facial hair is the Alpha male. Judy



Mmxmm@AOL.COM wrote:

> looks a bit like Sadaam > > I didn't know what Amir Peretz looked like and so I googled his > image. Very very impressive mustache! > Judy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew [...] 44758 89 35_Re: amir peretz and his facial hair0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 16:51:01 EDT515_US-ASCII

Speaking of impressive mustache... does anyone recall Uncle Moustache circa 68'...who owned a little place inside the gates of the Old City right up the 'street' from where Svi Miller then from Kibbutz Urim rented a place from his landlord, named Uncle Joe. Svi used to stash the key...one of those enormous brass keys that couldn't even begin to be carried around in your pocket or briefcase...so he used stashed it at Uncle Moustache's. Now that guy had one helluva' an epic 'shwaram' (sp?) [...] 44848 77 35_Re: amir peretz and his facial hair0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:55:18 EDT468_US-ASCII

In a message dated 06/14/2005 4:51:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Mmxmm@AOL.COM writes:

Speaking of impressive mustache... does anyone recall Uncle Moustache circa 68'...who owned a little place inside the gates of the Old City

I have a picture of Uncle Mustache from 1968 and I wrote a song about that little place. I think I have it recorded somewhere. For a while in the late 60's the song got some requests around Gesher Haziv. [...] 44926 38 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:58:50 -0700430_us-ascii I was taught that the term is "externalize," but "cost shifting" works for me. Call it whatever you like.

Sharon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

44965 96 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:05:54 EDT632_US-ASCII

In a message dated 06/14/2005 2:14:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Ok, I get it. But still, your use of externalize and internalize - which means to make internal, personal or subjective - is incorrect. Maybe there's an economist in the house who can provide the right words?

The correct term is "stealing" especially in the example Avi gave about Wal Mart. Wal Mart is signing many of their employees up for Medicaid and paying them little enough so they can qualify. So millions of working people are shifted to public expense. The executives and the shoppers at Wal [...] 45062 84 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 19:56:06 -0400530_us-ascii Avi wrote:

>Same thing is happening with the Pension Benefit Guarantee >Corporation. Companies like United Airlines under fund their pensions as >they had agreed to, then default, leaving the PBGC to pick up the tab - >shifting the cost from private sector to public responsibility (and a much >lower pension for employees). All perfectly legal. In actuality, pensions >are a form of deferred income and corporations are reneging on their >promise to pay this deferred income shifting the cost to the public. [...] 45147 65 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:05:28 EDT606_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/14/05 7:56:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM writes:



> There has been talk of a tax-payer bail-out of the PBGC, but there are many > reasons why it won't happen.

I'd be very curious why you think it won't happen. There have already been attempts to increase the amount each pension plan is supposed to pay in to the fund for each employee (currently $19/year, pruposed to go to $30) but that was rejected. Given the likelihood of more and bigger defined benefit plan defaults Congress and taxpayers will have to bail out the system. [...] 45213 126 35_Re: amir peretz and his facial hair13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:24:26 -0400373_iso-8859-1 The historical/political character that came to my mind staring at the pics and the moustache was Stalin. Both Stalin and Saddam are figures who had a pretty strong impact in world history. ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:41 PM Subject: Re: amir peretz and his facial hair [...] 45340 79 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:45:09 -0400399_us-ascii

>I'd be very curious why you think it won't happen. There have already >been attempts to increase the amount each pension plan is supposed to pay >in to the fund for each employee (currently $19/year, pruposed to go to >$30) but that was rejected. Given the likelihood of more and bigger >defined benefit plan defaults Congress and taxpayers will have to bail out >the system. [...] 45420 86 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:55:23 EDT514_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/14/2005 8:45:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM writes:

Unlike the S&L bail-out, the people who would benefit from a PBGC bail-out (union members and AARP members) are not a constituency toward which the Republican Party feels any loyalty. David unfortunately that is a lot of voters and even the GOP cannot resist that many voters. And who are they really bailing out the workers or the corporations who are pulling back on the defined benefit plans? Sam [...] 45507 458 52_Re: Another innocent question from a political idiot0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:08:50 -0400500_us-ascii The party that comes to mind is Shas. While their profile is one of an ultra-orthodox party, their appeal has been to the lower class sphardic electorate. As David Twersky mentioned in a previous post, a Peretz led Labor Party would hope to siphon away some of those voters.

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: Sue Liberman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:45:28 -0700 Subject: Re: Another innocent question from a political idiot [...] 45966 234 52_Re: Another innocent question from a political idiot12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:27:16 -0700604_iso-8859-1 Interesting--thanks Ken

--- kbob24@AOL.COM wrote:

> The party that comes to mind is Shas. While their > profile is one of an ultra-orthodox party, their > appeal has been to the lower class sphardic > electorate. As David Twersky mentioned in a previous > post, a Peretz led Labor Party would hope to siphon > away some of those voters. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sue Liberman > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:45:28 -0700 > Subject: Re: Another innocent question from a > political idiot > > > Thanks Ken; are [...] 46201 479 52_Re: Another innocent question from a political idiot12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:25:29 +0200671_iso-8859-1 I think that's optimistic. My very enlightened (PhD) neighbor, Tunisian, voted Shas. He's left-wing, in favor of disengagement, but Shas speaks to him - for him, they're 'fun unzer.' I know that's not a representative sample but I think it reflects something. The true disenchanted shas voters are the less religious ones who wanted educational opportunities for their kids and instead got Lithuanian-style yeshivas and other religious setups with no secular subjects, perpetuating the ethinc divide as a socio-economic one. What are they voting? Maybe Shas, still? The ethnic allegiance is strong. Maybe Shinui? Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: [...] 46681 24 15_Uncle Moustache16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:25:57 -0400464_ISO-8859-1 Marc Margolis brings back fine memories of the wonderful cuisine at Uncle Moustache's restaurant, which was situated just inside the Damascus Gate. Good, plentiful and inexpensive food; gambling in the back room; a bordello upstairs and hashish in the basement: a veritable full service entertainment center! Moustache, so rumor has it, was a tout for the shin bet prior to the Six Day War. I wonder how Moustache's would be rated today by Zagats? [...] 46706 18 11_facial hair16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 05:29:15 -0400390_us-ascii Hitler and Arafat?

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 46725 245 19_Re: Uncle Moustache0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 07:42:34 EDT621_US-ASCII Uncle Mustache Words and Music by Sam Flesher Written in 1967.

Hidden down in Jerursalem Near the Flower Gate There's a greasy spoon establishment With a dollar dinner plate

It opens early every day It always closes late And something's always cooking So you never have to wait.

And at the front door Be lookin for Uncle Mustache You can tell him by his Big fat bluberry belly And you''ll adore His bear fur Leningrad hat Uncle will pour the orient coffee That's how he secures American cash Gimme American American Cash From Singapor to Marakash Experienced travelers Eventually crash [...] 46971 39 35_Re: amir peretz and his facial hair0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:30:23 EDT408_US-ASCII Ah yes, Uncle Mustache! A great guy.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 47011 55 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:40:03 EDT537_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/14/05 8:45:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM writes:

> (union members and AARP members) are not a constituency toward which the > Republican Party feels any loyalty

True enough.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 47067 53 19_Re: Uncle Moustache0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 10:53:27 EDT507_US-ASCII Uncle Mustache used to keep a book where travelers could leave notes and messages for friends passing through - often on there way to Nepal, or Goa or wherever "John. meet you at such-and-such a place on such-and-such date.". Uncle was truly an Uncle to many. I had a friend who was studying at Hebrew University and ran short of cash. Uncle Mustache let him eat for free until money came from home. Not unusual. Don't remember what happened to the place - either blown up or closed down. Avi [...] 47121 95 27_Re: Sympathize w the Bosses0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 08:45:05 -0700437_us-ascii The administration's lack of loyalty to AARP members is clear from their attack on Social Security. But the AARP is biting back on this one.

Sharon







JLCAA@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 06/15/2005 07:40 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: Sympathize w the Bosses [...] 47217 43 10_Re: Me Too13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:12:41 -0400517_us-ascii AMNON, YOU'VE GOT MY VOTE! I REMBER PASSING YOU THROUGH OUR EILAT ROAD BLOCK ONE SUKKOT, MY FIRST MILIUIM...REGARDS TO RIVKA.

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Amnon Hadary Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:07 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Me Too

David Hi, I like your criteria for selection: "Peretz has the better moustache." I hereby tender my candidacy. Will consider Ministry of Education and Culture. [...] 47261 21 10_Re: Me Too20_Carmi & Dave Holtzer20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:38:15 +0200475_iso-8859-1 Maybe this can turn into a new criterion for politicians? "May the best moustache win"

Holtzer

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 47283 52 10_Re: Me Too0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:00:10 -0700442_us-ascii Holtzer wrote: Maybe this can turn into a new criterion for politicians? "May the best moustache win"

Here in the States, the "winner" would probably have either a fake or an enhanced moustache, or maybe no moustache at all. Plus we'd be barraged with TV ads showing that the other guy's moustache wasn't really his moustache and we have the documents to prove it but we can't release them for national security reasons. [...] 47336 257 10_Re: Me Too13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:08:49 -0400484_us-ascii The best line, moustacheless though it may be, was from the comedian Gary Shandling who recently said he wouldn't run for president due to a fear that no woman would step forward to claim she had slept with him.





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:00 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Me Too [...] 47594 51 25_FOR STEVE KLEIN (PRIVATE)12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:28:22 -0700666_iso-8859-1 Steve- I tried to answer your Hollywood bowl email and it got bounced back to me- PLEASE call me and leave your number, or email me at this email address- I am IN!!!--suz

--- Carmi & Dave Holtzer wrote:

> Maybe this can turn into a new criterion for > politicians? "May the best > moustache win" > > Holtzer > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > [...] 47646 38 34_Fw: [Modiin] apt for sale in RBS A13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:48:39 +0200643_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "tova" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 7:59 PM Subject: [Modiin] apt for sale in RBS A



> > > > > Beautiful 4 room apt for sale on Maor/Habesor street-close to stores, > shuls, schools and public transportation. > Private entrance, beautiful garden, upgraded kitchen, great > neighbors.Flexible occupancy. > for details call Tova > 02-999-0231 > 0544-768-300 > _______________________________________________ > For list functions (subscribing, digest options, etc...), please go to > http://www.lerner.co.il/mailman/listinfo/modiin [...] 47685 57 5_sorry13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 00:48:20 +0200366_iso-8859-1 i have no explanation how i accidently sent the message below to habonet. Maybe because it is 2 a.m. and I have been working too hard. i apologize. pearl

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pearl Skolnik" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:48 PM Subject: Fw: [Modiin] apt for sale in RBS A [...] 47743 65 27_Who thinks of these things?8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:42:36 +0200451_us-ascii

A novel solution to global warming:

http://www.worldjumpday.org/

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 47809 100 31_Re: Who thinks of these things?13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:34:35 -0400696_us-ascii Jon--Without your research skills and the webology they reveal to us, life would lack a certain sparkle. Thank you! Judy



Jon Baum wrote:

> > A novel solution to global warming: > > _http://www.worldjumpday.org/_ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network > , a service of Hebrew College > , which offers online courses and an online > MA in Jewish Studies . > > To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > > [...] 47910 142 31_Re: Who thinks of these things?0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 23:44:44 +0000462_- To be honest, with your choice, George W ("more research is needed") Bush in charge this actually sounds like the best idea yet.









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 48053 80 31_Re: Who thinks of these things?0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 19:51:09 EDT366_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/16/2005 7:45:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:

To be honest, with your choice, George W ("more research is needed") Bush in charge this actually sounds like the best idea yet.

You mean George W ("more research is needed and we are not paying gor more research) Bush? Is that the same guy> [...] 48134 121 31_Re: Who thinks of these things?13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 16 Jun 2005 20:58:57 -0400586_us-ascii I think he means George W ("the jury is still out on evolution as well as global warming") Bush. So let's start jumping. God helps those who help themselves. Judy



Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 06/16/2005 7:45:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes: > > To be honest, with your choice, George W ("more research is > needed") Bush in charge this actually sounds like the best idea yet. > > You mean George W ("more research is needed and we are not paying gor > more research) Bush? Is that the same guy> > > Sam [...] 48256 72 69_"You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:15:27 +0200476_us-ascii

Jules Winnfield (Samuel Jackson) as hockey coach:

http://www.svgamer.com/pics/chelios.wmv

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 48329 52 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:23:08 EDT455_US-ASCII Well, I guess I've been put in my place......age I'm referring to. I never miss one of Jon's web sites but this one left me shaking my head! Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 48382 112 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:28:48 +0200506_us-ascii Ellen, didn't you see "Pulp Fiction?"

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Emabear@AOL.COM Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:23 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"





Well, I guess I've been put in my place......age I'm referring to. I never miss one of Jon's web sites but this one left me shaking my head! Ellen _____ [...] 48495 46 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:49:24 EDT404_US-ASCII Told you, I am behind the times.

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 48542 76 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:26:47 EDT644_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/17/2005 1:29:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Ellen, didn't you see "Pulp Fiction?"



Yeh Jon I saw "Pulp Fiction" twice. What is a right wing Republican like you doing watching cult films like that? You should stick to John Wayne and Star Wars.







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 48619 144 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:11:55 +0200404_us-ascii Sam, you of all people should know not to believe in stereotypes. Anyhow, it starred Bruce Willis.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 4:27 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee" [...] 48764 129 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:05:51 EDT611_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/17/2005 11:12:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Sam, you of all people should know not to believe in stereotypes.

We are not talking stereotypes Jon. We are talking about you. Bush keeps saying really stupid things like "The jury is still out one evolution," and "Global warming needs more research." You want to keep that enlightened pessimist tag for yourself but rightly or not your boy Bush keeps throwing stupid crap around. The smart thing to do would be to lay low and wait until the storm passes. But you chose rather to get your [...] 48894 264 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:45:02 +0200532_us-ascii Dear Sam,

I am sorry that you feel that I must shut up because you don't like Bush and his views. Obviously, since I voted for him I'm not permitted to pass judgment on any aspect of modern culture and society. Since the stuff I sometimes post doesn't fit into your world view of what you think a Bush voter should be, I'm some kind of poseur. I keep forgetting that if you're not a Democrat, you're a Neanderthal. I don't know what came over me. Ah, the tolerance of the left - as long as you agree with them. [...] 49159 307 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:00:42 +0000524_- Jon didn't vote for Bush because of evolution, global warming, abortion, gay rights, civil rights, or anything except who he thought would be best for him, self-interest, which is exactly the way people are suppose to vote. As an Israeli, he felt Bush was better for Israel than Kerry would have been. (Obviously I have no inside knowledge of Jon's views, I am just surmising.) This is why I said at the time that I thought it was immoral for people who are duel citizens living in Israel to vote in the US election. [...] 49467 307 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 17:02:57 +0000556_- Jon stated, :"I keep forgetting that if you're not a Democrat, you're a Neanderthal."

Jon, the jury is still out on if Neanderthal's ever existed. It is obvious that you are a victim of a secular humanist education.









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 49775 157 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:32:56 EDT623_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/17/2005 1:01:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:

Jon didn't vote for Bush because of evolution, global warming, abortion, gay rights, civil rights, or anything except who he thought would be best for him, self-interest, which is exactly the way people are suppose to vote.

Of course. That should not keep me from addressing Jon with my dissatisfaction with the nonsense that Bush speaks. He is perfectly capable of saying. "Sam I disagree with all of those things and I will speak out against them." He has not said that. He has not even said that [...] 49933 244 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:33:05 EDT525_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/17/2005 12:46:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

Dear Sam,

I am sorry that you feel that I must shut up because you don't like Bush and his views.



I did not say for you to shut up. I did not say anything like that. I said that Bush is being very uncool and he has egg on his face. It would be nice for you to comment on that. I also said it would be wise to lay low on posting satire when you have left yourself so open to being spoofed. [...] 50178 200 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:41:15 -0700649_iso-8859-1 I couldn't open the orginal email for some reason- could you re-send it or tell me a little what it was?--sue



--- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> Jon stated, :"I keep forgetting that if you're not a > Democrat, you're a Neanderthal." > > Jon, the jury is still out on if Neanderthal's ever > existed. It is obvious that you are a victim of a > secular humanist education. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses [...] 50379 391 53_Jewish Environmental Bike Ride this Labor Day weekend11_Cheryl Cook16_cheryl@JESNA.ORG31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:29:04 -0400646_US-ASCII I am chairing a wonderful bike ride this Labor Day weekend, and I would love to have more Habonim presence. The ride is run by an organization called Hazon, a small non-profit that does great environmental and outdoor education work in the Jewish community. I'll be one of 200+ participants riding to help raise environmental awareness, and to add the Jewish community's voice to calls for environmental responsibility. The monies raised will go to support a wide range of outstanding and innovative programs, here and in Israel. Last year, Ride proceeds helped launch Tuv Ha'Aretz, Hazon's community supported agriculture project, [...] 50771 42 27_Throw the Jew Down The Well0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:48:25 +0000449_- As an outsider, I was wondering what those of you who are MOTs thought of this video.

Ali G goes country: http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2667361

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 50814 365 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:53:18 +0200390_us-ascii This is one of those parties that has gotten out of hand. All I wanted to do was to post a clip. Sorry Sam, but I think I'll pass on a long essay on The World According to Jon Baum; I don't feel like boring everybody here. Ok, for the record, I'm not a creationist and I'm not convinced that there is human activity-induced global warming. How's that? Feel more tolerant now? [...] 51180 46 9_Leadbelly0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:14:17 +0000427_- I've never seen Leadbelly on film before so I was pretty impressed by this.

http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2666580

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51227 111 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:15:08 EDT618_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/17/2005 2:54:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

I'm not convinced that there is human activity-induced global warming. How's that?

Good start about the creationist stuff Jon although you need to know that your buddies are trying to change the curriculum and teach creationism in the schools. Your President is making comments about the "Jury being out on creationism. But your grade is F - on the global warming stuff. You apparantly have fallen behind on your reading. The jury is in on global warming and you seem to be out in the cold. No bad [...] 51339 73 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:19:46 EDT643_US-ASCII

In a message dated 6/17/2005 12:15:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Smfgrappa@AOL.COM writes:

P.S. I hope you have a good sense of humor. I like to joke around.









I am glad to hear that! It was sure getting heavy for an Erev Shabbat. Wishing you all a restful, peaceful Shabbat. Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 51413 197 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:56:34 +0200443_us-ascii I like to think that I have a good sense of humor, although there are probably some who don't think so. I surely hope you're joking here.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 9:15 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee" [...] 51611 91 73_Re: "You will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee"0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:14:51 EDT605_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/17/2005 3:57:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL writes:

I like to think that I have a good sense of humor, although there are probably some who don't think so. I surely hope you're joking here.



That is fine. I usually get laughs in person. I was not joking about Global Warming. You were joking right. If not that is pretty funny at this point. Jon say it isn't so. Say you have not shrugged off all the scientific evidence and growing concerns of even corporate America to sucked in by Heritage Foundation propoganda. That would be [...] 51703 222 82_Judaism and abortion FROM TODAY'S HA'ARETZ>> `The ban on abortion is not absolute'13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:19:28 -0400491_us-ascii `The ban on abortion is not absolute'

By Shahar Ilan

Ostensibly, it is a well-known fact that halakha (Jewish religious law) objects to abortions, even if the infant that will be born will have a severe illness or be mentally retarded. For that reason, many religiously observant parents do not undergo genetic testing. If such tests were done and there was a chance of a baby being born with a serious illness, they would not abort. [...] 51926 92 24_Re: Judaism and abortion16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:08:10 -0400629_iso-8859-1 If anyone is interested, I have a long, detailed outline on the development of Jewish halakha on abortion that I developed for a session I did for Shavout a couple years ago. The very,very short version is that traditionally "abortion" was essentially infanticide when the baby has already partially emerged from the womb and this was forbidden by all authorities; in recent times, there were several major turning points in the development of modern halakha, including the emergence of safe surgical abortion techniques in the early 20th century, the danger of hiding with an infant during the Holocaust and the [...] 52019 71 16_A few good women8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 11:49:15 +0200494_us-ascii

Extreme makeover:

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050615/NEWS03/50 6150321/1062

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 52091 120 13_Re: Leadbelly12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 22:31:39 +0200426_windows-1255 Thanks for that one, Richard. I see that even though Pete learned the Grey Goose song from him, he changed the melody slightly. What a way to start the week. But what is he saying at the beginning of each song - 'this is a work song'? or a 'white song'? Or what? Jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: Leadbelly [...] 52212 33 46_John Prine--Feature article in Washington Post16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:50 -0400297_iso-8859-1 For those of you who don't get regularly read the Washington Post, here is the link to today's feature article on John Prine. I knew he was a Viet Nam vet but not that he wrote his early songs while walking his route at a a postman or that he was discovered by Kris Kristofferson. [...] 52246 23 50_Re: John Prine--Feature article in Washington Post16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:02:18 -0400545_iso-8859-1 Sorry for all the typos Judy

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 52270 36 13_Re: Leadbelly12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:06:52 -0400 52307 141 13_Re: Leadbelly12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:23:23 +0200404_ISO-8859-1 When I first heard (can't remember when) that Huddie rhymes with Rudy, it didn't work for me mainly b/c this is a nickname for Ehud. Keep the useless ones coming. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Fleiss To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 11:06 PM Subject: Re: Leadbelly



I've never seen Leadbelly on film before so I was pretty impressed by this. [...] 52449 51 20_Judaism and Abortion14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 21:45:13 +0000412_- Chevreh, Shalom,

Regarding the position of Judaism on abortion that was raised by Dave Twersky, Orthodox Judaism has taught, at least since Talmudic times, that abortion is OK when necessary to safeguard health of a pregnant woman.

The Rambam summarizes the Talmudic viewpoint as follows in his Mishneh Torah (Book of Damages - Laws of Murder and Protecting Life - Chapter 1 - Paragraph 9): [...] 52501 126 24_Re: Judaism and Abortion16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 18 Jun 2005 22:20:11 -0400531_iso-8859-1 Growing out of the Greek mis-conception that the sperm was the "seed" of life and that it merely had to take root in the womb to grow, the early Christian fathers thought that human life began at conception. Their focus was on baptism and original sin. In hypotheticals where the choice is between the life of the mothre and the life of the fetus, the baptized mother, who was insured of salvation and eternal life, must be sacrificed to allow for the salvation of the soul of the yet-to-be born soul of her child. [...] 52628 38 16_Fwd: Warning....12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 19 Jun 2005 18:49:53 -0400 52667 80 20_Re: Fwd: Warning....0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 00:14:43 +0000453_- David? Why did you ruin my only way to have a good time?









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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 52748 300 25_Jewish-American Synthesis8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:08:18 +0200648_us-ascii From The Chronicle of Higher Education.





The Great Jewish-American Synthesis



By ALAN WOLFE

Ever since the first Jew arrived on American shores 350 years ago, one question has persistently been asked but never definitively answered. Should Jews accommodate themselves to the culture of the United States, even if so doing carries the risk of serious, sometimes fatal revisions to the traditions that have long defined Judaism? Or should preservation of the traditions come first, even if that means never really fitting into American culture as other groups, primarily Christian, have done? [...] 53049 21 41_Sharon Gates/UT/CLB is out of the office.0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 01:05:59 -0700540_us-ascii I will be out of the office starting 06/17/2005 and will not return until 06/27/2005.

I will respond to your message when I return. If you need immediate assistance, please e-mail Anna Mendiola at Anna_Mendiola@longbeach.gov

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 53071 128 29_Re: Jewish-American Synthesis0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 05:52:36 EDT629_US-ASCII Isn't it interesting that this article is so selective in picking out Jewish contributions to American cultrual life. Folks like Woodie Guthrie, Bob Dylan, Paul Simon and Carol King are not even mentioned. Psychoanalysis is waved aside with psychophamocology and one would hardly suspect that Jews like Lawerence Kohlberg, Aaron Beck and Irving Yalom have continued to play important very roles in post psychoanalytic thinking. Guys like Stephan Jay Gould, the great shaper American sscientific thought is also invisible in this article. I have a deep sense that even as Jews turn inward, we are bound to see a new [...] 53200 69 29_Re: Jewish-American Synthesis0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 06:08:10 EDT591_US-ASCII One other thought Jon. The author of this article seems to forget the disproportianate role played by Jews in our political life. Just look at the US Senate. Frank Lautenberg, Chuck Shumer, Alen Spector, Carl Levin, Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, Joe Lieberman and Diane Fienstein are some of the Jewish players in the Senate. Non of them are really conservative. The only really conservative Jew in high public office today is Alan Greenspan. As for a rising young Jewish star we can look to Elliot Spitzer. He is liberal to the core and likely to be New York's next governer. [...] 53270 537 86_Re: Judaism and abortion FROM TODAY'S HA'ARETZ>> `The ban on abortion is not absolute'13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:22:55 -0400578_US-ASCII But this article says "Most poskim [halakhic arbiters] in our generation have permitted the aborting of a fetus, even when there is no danger to the mother." Not only with disease.





________________________________

From: Eugene Korn Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:04 AM To: David Twersky; Neil Goldstein; 'Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh'; Lois Waldman; Phil Baum; Marc Stern; Gary Ratner; Harriet Kurlander Cc: 'dtwersky@comcast.net' Subject: RE: Judaism and abortion FROM TODAY'S HA'ARETZ>> `The ban on abortion is not absolute' [...] 53808 172 29_Re: Jewish-American Synthesis0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 14:58:47 +0000443_- Woody Guthrie was not Jewish. One of his three wives was Jewish but he was not Jewish. Not even a little bit.









------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 53981 327 39_Song For Today: From my Habo archives -14_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:12:17 -0700454_iso-8859-1 For Dan Bloom, David Levy, Kalman Migler, Doron Scharf, Sue Okun (ne Korostoff)(actually always Korostoff in my mind - hi Gail!, and Sue. And Ben Dubrovsky. Marty Malin, Noah, Benjy, Eric, and the rest of the surfer crew - Hi Mona! Robert, Anne,

but this is really for KMBet 79 - of the CSNY tent crew. Always wanted to get a shot of our sig line in the refet, if anyones' kids are at Galil, send me a dig of KM77 and win a prize. [...] 54309 198 31_song two - suite judy blue eyes14_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:45:46 -0700392_iso-8859-1

Suite: Judy Blue Eyes It's getting to the point where I'm no fun any more I am sorry Sometimes it hurts so badly I must cry out loud I am lonely I am yours, you are mine, you are what you are You make it hard

Remember what we've said, and done And felt about each other Oh, babe, have mercy Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now I am not dreaming [...] 54508 348 39_Song For Today: From my Habo archives -14_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 20 Jun 2005 11:48:19 -0700454_iso-8859-1 For Dan Bloom, David Levy, Kalman Migler, Doron Scharf, Sue Okun (ne Korostoff)(actually always Korostoff in my mind - hi Gail!, and Sue. And Ben Dubrovsky. Marty Malin, Noah, Benjy, Eric, and the rest of the surfer crew - Hi Mona! Robert, Anne,

but this is really for KMBet 79 - of the CSNY tent crew. Always wanted to get a shot of our sig line in the refet, if anyones' kids are at Galil, send me a dig of KM77 and win a prize. [...] 54857 30 12_Cancellation11_Jack Porter23_jacknusan@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 00:05:31 -0400 54888 137 29_Re; Jewish-American Synthesis13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:58:42 EDT638_US-ASCII Jon Baum wrote: <
Freud could never have known that pharmacology would be able to perform, at lower cost and with more rapid results, what his method promised, but once it did, psychoanalysis lost much of the mystique that had made it so popular in the post-World War II era. Not only did Freudian methods lose scientific credibility, but they also lost their cultural cachet...Pharmacology did more [...] 55026 139 29_Re: Jewish-American Synthesis13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:59:05 EDT713_US-ASCII Jon Baum wrote: <
The first was in the arts, especially in the musical theater Together with others like Irving Berlin and George and Ira Gershwin, Rodgers and Hammerstein transformed the American musical from dancing chorus lines to something resembling European opera>>

To expand: The beginnings of Broadway can be traced from the influence of both many Jews and non-Jews. Broadway was borne of an amalgam of Minstrel Shows (a mostly non-Jewish, black-face, popular, pre-radio/records entertainment), Vaudeville (infused with very Jewish-humor and Jewish performers), the light operettas of Gilbert and Sullivan and New York's Yiddish Theatre. [...] 55166 449 29_Re: Jewish-American Synthesis13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:01:32 -0400616_US-ASCII Not only were fed and Ronnie Jewish, but they went to Brooklyn college together...Tzena Tzena and Shalom Chaverim (two of the Weavers' hits), bring to mind the brief moment during which the Israel cause was championed by the pro-Soviet community, which had hitherto been, and would soon return to, anti-Zionist. Andre Gromyko gave a speech worthy of the Zionist Congress (actually, come to think of it, far more worthy) at the General Assembly debate on partition. Some elements in Moscow were under the illusion (into which they were seduced by parts of the Mapam leadership) that Israel would end up [...] 55616 149 10_PS Weavers13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:51:41 -0400710_US-ASCII I always wondered how they chose the name. Reason I wondered is that my late mother (she died the day after my eight birthday) had loved the song, "Foggy Foggy Dew" which begins, of course, with the line, "When I was a bachelor, I liv'd all alone/I worked at the weaver's trade," and involves a love affair, the birth of a son, and the death of the mother. The veteran critic Malcolm Cowley, who shared the Weavers' political outlook, titled his memoir , "And I Worked at the Writer's Trade: Chapters of Literary History, 1918-1978 ," clearly referring [...] 55766 60 14_Re: PS Weavers0_25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:15:04 -0400322_us-ascii A quick Google comes up with: " The [...] group, known informally as "the No-Name Quartet," performed at various venues around New York and once on radio, courtesy of folk singer Oscar Brand, before settling on the name the Weavers, derived from a play of the same title by Gerhart Johann Robert Hauptmann." [...] 55827 22 0_16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:20:37 -0400581_iso-8859-1 http://www.becomingdc.org/calendar/RoshHashanah2005.html



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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 55850 71 14_Re: PS Weavers0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:21:53 +0000399_- I never liked the Weavers all that much, always felt they were a slick version of the Almanac Singers. They were much more the forerunners of the Kingston Trio and that Madison Avenue "folk" scene than the Dylan, Phil Ochs, Dave Van Ronk school which found their inspiration in the Carter Family, Woody Guthrie, Hank Williams (the Harry Smith school if you will) grit than the Weavers slick. [...] 55922 68 17_The thanks we get8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:04:43 +0200556_us-ascii A woman from Gaza is treated for burns in an Israeli hospital. She has special permission to enter Israel. When she comes back for continued treatment, guess what she has in her pants?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/590189.html



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 55991 34 43_Re: Song For Today: From my Habo archives -11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:17:32 -0700 56026 64 8_Becoming8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 20:50:59 +0200497_us-ascii Cool site Judy! Now that I think about it, I could come up with some "Jewitches" I've known. Do they practice human sacrifice and then dip the victim in honey for Rosh Hashanah?

Jon

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 56091 82 33_Re: Re; Jewish-American Synthesis0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:52:54 EDT421_US-ASCII



In a message dated 06/21/2005 7:00:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, SHX2@AOL.COM writes:

But the point is that these practices are off-springs of the movement Freud began in the West, and they have given rise to a more virile movement of inner process and self-discovery.





Virile? I think NOT.

Debbie

"Be serious, be passionate, wake up!" Susan Sontag [...] 56174 64 27_Looking for Donna Greenberg0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Tue, 21 Jun 2005 21:09:48 EDT533_US-ASCII Donna,

I have lost your contact info. Can you please email me your home and work and cell phone?

Thanks, Aliya (need to contact you tonight or tomorrow if possible)

_sc523@aol.com_ (mailto:sc523@aol.com)

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 56239 46 14_Re: PS Weavers8_cpristoo17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:05:13 -0400603_ISO-8859-1 >Since that remains my all time favorite group, I would love to have others' thoughts. Allan S. Pristoop

===== Original Message From Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh ===== >I always wondered how they chose the name. Reason I wondered is that my >late mother (she died the day after my eight birthday) had loved the >song, "Foggy Foggy Dew" which begins, of course, with the line, "When I >was a bachelor, I liv'd all alone/I worked at the weaver's trade," and >involves a love affair, the birth of a son, and the death of the mother. >The veteran critic [...] 56286 26 21_Woody Gurthrie was so14_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Wed, 22 Jun 2005 19:15:46 -0400324_us-ascii Jewish, what books you been reading, Richard?

Damn, just cause he didn't go to synagogue, have Jewish parents, wear a kipah, you think we can't claim him? Basically, those who do the good work of Tikkun Olam, they be Jews in my book.

Deportee was enough to inscribe him into the book of life.... [...] 56313 61 25_Re: Woody Gurthrie was so0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 02:52:43 +0000596_- Well he only wrote the lyrics so I'll let him wade in to his waist.

-------------- Original message --------------

> Jewish, what books you been reading, Richard? > > Damn, just cause he didn't go to synagogue, have Jewish parents, wear a kipah, > you think we can't claim him? Basically, those who do the good work of Tikkun > Olam, they be Jews in my book. > > Deportee was enough to inscribe him into the book of life.... > > Albert > > . > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The [...] 56375 109 14_Re: PS Weavers0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:40:58 EDT589_US-ASCII In a message dated 06/21/2005 12:22:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:

They were much more the forerunners of the Kingston Trio and that Madison Avenue "folk" scene than the Dylan, Phil Ochs, Dave Van Ronk school

The Weavers found had direct connections to Leadbelly and to Guthrie and to Alan Lomax. I am not at all sure I would put Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs and Dave Van Ronk in a school. They were all different thins and spanned different time era's Van Ronk had a deeo foot in folksly blues and he could really play the guitar. He did [...] 56485 69 14_Re: PS Weavers0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 04:04:33 +0000489_- If you listen to Leadbelly's version of Irene Goodnight and then listen to the Weavers version you would be reminded of Pat Boone doing Little Richard's Tuttie Fruitie. Case closed.

-------------- Original message --------------

In a message dated 06/21/2005 12:22:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes: They were much more the forerunners of the Kingston Trio and that Madison Avenue "folk" scene than the Dylan, Phil Ochs, Dave Van Ronk school [...] 56555 48 14_Re: PS Weavers20_Lon & Shelly Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 01:51:16 -0400385_US-ASCII I have a very strange memory of my whole family (my parents too, whose entire record collection consisted of Mickey Katz's "Borscht", "The Songs of Cantor Yossele Rosenblatt", and Jan Peerce's "A Yiddish Lullaby") going to the Lyric Theatre in Baltimore to see The Weavers live. It might have been a ken peulah. Anybody remember this? It must have been in the late 50's. [...] 56604 241 29_Re: PS Weavers -->Babysitters12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:42:00 +0200421_iso-8859-1 And while we mention the Weavers, lets take a moment to appreciate the Babysitters, priming our children for the genre. Lee Hayes was in the ensemble, and they had some great spoofs on classic folk-songs in a Weaver-y style.

Examples: What shall we do with a sleeping Dorris (drunken sailor) x3 early in the morning Bang on a pot and call out breakfast! (pull off 'er covers til she freezes, etc.) [...] 56846 261 14_Re: PS Weavers12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:51:44 +0200553_windows-1255 Look, Richard, as a white girl who went to school with almost no white kids and who prayed... nay, thought her skin was turning dark every time she stood up in assembly with her classmates to sing "Lift Every Voice and Sing" to Mr. Johnson's gospel-style piano playing (this was Mt. Airy, the C.W. Henry School, if there are any alums out there) , I can say with excellent credentials that no white boy (or girl) can pull it off like a black boy (or girl). (Well, maybe Michael Jackson has tried to challenge this in some way). We all [...] 57108 92 14_Re: PS Weavers12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:14:49 -0700615_iso-8859-1 I remember that performance, Shelley--and sitting by "Ha/arbah", and softly doing a "sing-along"--as I remember, we were in the balcony........sue(sie)

--- Lon & Shelly Ephraim wrote:

> I have a very strange memory of my whole family (my > parents too, whose > entire record collection consisted of Mickey Katz's > "Borscht", "The > Songs of Cantor Yossele Rosenblatt", and Jan > Peerce's "A Yiddish > Lullaby") going to the Lyric Theatre in Baltimore to > see The Weavers > live. It might have been a ken peulah. Anybody > remember this? It > must have been in the [...] 57201 186 52_movies in NYC: Jewish labor movement & the Holocaust16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:50:48 -0400970_us-ascii

Films - part of a fascinating series in NYC .



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~







THEY WERE NOT SILENT: THE JEWISH LABOR MOVEMENT AND THE HOLOCAUST

(Roland Millman, 1998)

Courtesy of the Tamiment Library & Robert F. Wagner Labor Archives at New York University







THE FORWARD: FROM IMMIGRANTS TO AMERICANS

(Linda Matchan, Marlene Booth,1989)





The response of American Jewish labor and fraternal groups, and media, to the rise of European totalitarism. Conversation: Dr. Gail Malmgreen, Tamiment Library & Robert F. Wagner Labor Archives, New York University ; Professor Jack Jacobs, John Jay College and The Graduate Center, The City University of New York . [...] 57388 48 14_Re: PS Weavers13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:40:25 EDT315_US-ASCII Boy, do I remember that peulah...it was the first concert I ever went to...the next day, as a direct result of loving the concert, I got my first guitar...a $15. Harmony classic and "The Weavers at Carnegie Hall"` lp. The guitar now lives in Jerusalem at Ezra Harris' apartment.

Steven Hancoff [...] 57437 103 14_Re: PS Weavers13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:58:50 -0400435_us-ascii Wow--Ezra Harris! How is he? He was the first Ezra I ever met. I was about 10 years old and he was on tzevet. I was enchanted by everything he did- It wasn't a crush, more like respectful worship of a minor deity. My son Ezra, officially named after a great aunt Esther, really owes his name, at a subconscious level of it being a name associated in his mother's mind with all good and noble things, to Ezra Harris. Judy [...] 57541 78 14_Re: PS Weavers0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:21:13 EDT426_US-ASCII

Speaking of memories...one of my first of hearing 'live' music was Steve Hancoff and Shana (now Alexander) singing & strumming at some Macabiah between Mosh, Galil & Na'aleh.

mm

Boy, do I remember that peulah...it was the first concert I ever went to...the next day, as a direct result of loving the concert, I got my first guitar...a $15. Harmony classic and "The Weavers at Carnegie Hall [...] 57620 141 14_Re: PS Weavers14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:18:26 +0200405_iso-8859-1 First Music Memories and heart throbs.....Marty Sarnat and Mike Zurkov doing Phil Ochs , Gordon Lightfoot or just about anything else-"What's that I hear now ringing in my ears..." I can still hear the echoes,probably always will-Aviva (Lutsky) Grosbard ----- Original Message ----- From: Mmxmm@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 7:21 PM Subject: Re: PS Weavers [...] 57762 28 7_Renewal12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:42:15 +0200543_us-ascii Spring is the season for renewal. But look at what's happening on Habonet. It's almost summer and David Twerski is back, Steve Hancoff weighs in. Jon Baum has been providing us with intellectual stimulation for quite a while and Sam F. questions his data and or the credentials of those Jon forwards. This interesting material is an altogether refreshing departure from oy vei the world hates us, British academics hate us even more, boycotts and counter petitions, statistics by terrorists are mendacious. What did I leave out? [...] 57791 46 11_Re: Renewal16_Katherine Lavine26_holycowfoods@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:49:40 -0700626_US-ASCII On the plus side, I would say we're almost always safe on musical topics......we're like a bunch of alta-kakers reliving the day! Maybe we actually are the alta-kakers (almost).



> [Original Message] > From: Amnon Hadary > To: > Date: 6/23/2005 5:42:21 PM > Subject: Renewal > > Spring is the season for renewal. But look at what's happening on > Habonet. It's almost summer and David Twerski is back, Steve Hancoff > weighs in. Jon Baum has been providing us with intellectual stimulation > for quite a while and Sam F. questions his data and or the [...] 57838 181 11_Re: Renewal0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:57:55 EDT331_US-ASCII

Spring may be the season of renewal but it is Summer that sees the rebirth of Habonim alumni. After all we all have bug-juice running in our veins. As the days grow long and the weather warm - our thoughts begin to drift off to those dim half legendary days of camp (they are certainly half legendary by now) [...] 58020 33 25_sad news from workshop 4911_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:13:31 -0500550_us-ascii dearest kvutza,

i hope you all remember yossi schiff who came to visit us on workshop. hes a tavornik and a dear dear friend to many. he had a surgery on monday to remove part of his colon and there were serious complications on tuesday. his heart stopped beating and although they did resuscitate him, his brain went without oxygen for about 10 minutes. he is now on machines that are performing his basic body functions for him. his heart is beating on its own which is a good sign, but his breathing is on and off on his own. [...] 58054 72 58_Re: Renewal-Behind the scenes & Six degrees of separations12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 12:05:05 -0700579_iso-8859-1 I think you left out one of the interesting elements of this- and that is the "behind the scenes" banter that goes on on top of all of this- I have been having a little of this with Judy Gelman, friends at Gesher HaZiv, - Frankie Ephraim Perlmutter, and a host of others- Habonet, Spring, Summer, "HaArbah (Shlomo, Si, Barry, and Ritchie Lakein and Caaspi (Can someone clear THIS ONE up with me- who was really in HA-Arbah- did Richie and Caspi alternate, or was HaArbah really haHachamisha with a droput?)--...The other "phenomenon" which has come out of all of [...] 58127 20 0_14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:34:47 +0200566_windows-1255 First Music Memories and heart throbs.....Marty Sarnat and Mike Zurkov doing Phil Ochs , Gordon Lightfoot or just about anything else-"What's that I hear now ringing in my ears..." I can still hear the echoes,probably always will-Aviva (Lutsky) Grosbard

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 58148 47 0_12_carl goldman20_carlosgold@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 13:18:01 -0700396_iso-8859-1 After all of these years I have finally figured out how to access Habonet. I've arrived, kicking and screaming, into late 20th century.

I decided to try to to join this time around when a friend sent me some of the debate around the labor movement. Since I have spent my entire adult life working in organized (and sometimes disorganized)labor, I thought I should respond. [...] 58196 111 11_Re: Renewal13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:28:23 -0400564_us-ascii Hi Amnon-- I will be calling you soon. I am leaving for Israel tomorrow for the NIF meetings but haven't figured out then they are giving me a second to breathe. Are you around on Sunday daytime, as that is a possibility ? Judy

Amnon Hadary wrote:

> Spring is the season for renewal. But look at what's happening on > Habonet. It's almost summer and David Twerski is back, Steve Hancoff > weighs in. Jon Baum has been providing us with intellectual > stimulation for quite a while and Sam F. questions his data and or the > credentials [...] 58308 146 11_Re: Renewal13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:38:08 -0400551_us-ascii Sorry--That was obviously for Amnon only! Judy

Judith Gelman wrote:

> Hi Amnon-- > I will be calling you soon. I am leaving for Israel tomorrow for the > NIF meetings but haven't figured out then they are giving me a second > to breathe. Are you around on Sunday daytime, as that is a possibility ? > Judy > > Amnon Hadary wrote: > >> Spring is the season for renewal. But look at what's happening on >> Habonet. It's almost summer and David Twerski is back, Steve >> Hancoff weighs in. Jon Baum has been providing us with [...] 58455 18 22_Update on Yossi Schiff11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 15:51:17 -0500497_us-ascii The update: he had irreversable brain damage. They will be donating his organs in the morning. The funeral is Sunday.



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 58474 29 18_music and memories14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET31_Fri, 24 Jun 2005 01:44:31 +0200435_windows-1255 ----- Original Message ----- From: "aviva grosbard" To: Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:34 PM



> First Music Memories and heart throbs.....Marty Sarnat and Mike Zurkov > doing Phil Ochs , Gordon Lightfoot or just about anything else-"What's that > I hear now ringing in my ears..." I can still hear the echoes,probably > always will-Aviva (Lutsky) Grosbard > [...] 58504 35 21_The Youth Movement...11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:00:27 -0700 58540 57 14_Re: PS Weavers0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 23:14:33 +0000299_- You know Shelly, I guess I am just not old enough to appreciate the Weavers.

I have a fairly vague but pleasent memory of seeing a folk singing group with wonderful harmonies at the Theater Project in Baltimore sometime in the early to mid 70's. I believe you were one of the singers. [...] 58598 45 26_Re: Update on Yossi Schiff15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Thu, 23 Jun 2005 21:32:02 -0400430_iso-8859-1 I would like to offer our home for lodging for chevreh who may be coming in to Ann Arbor to be with the Schiff family. I have enough beds since I have kids off at machaneh. Actually, including a hide-a-bed and cots there's a total of 6 spaces, and then there's always carpeted floor space. It's the least I can think of to do to help out. contact me by email and I'll give you my phone #. - Bev (Salinger) Warshai [...] 58644 74 16_Old-New Haboland12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 25 Jun 2005 15:23:16 +0200367_us-ascii Haverot/im I found a poem in FORUM, a quarterly on The Jewish People, Zionism and Israel I edited in the 70's and 80's. I think it reflects some of the corny notions and images we used then reaching eloquently for Hebrew, striving to reinvest our People's soul with dignity. (see Danny Siegal's poem in the attachment: Legacy of the Aleph-Bet Teachers) [...] 58719 163 20_Re: Old-New Haboland12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 25 Jun 2005 08:56:51 -0700548_iso-8859-1 A couple of days ago, my best friend went to our mutual doctor along with her husband. Our doctor, I will call him "George", is a wonderful, caring and. he is also an actor, and has played doctors on TV!- At any rate, lately, he has seemed sad and distracted. My friend and her husband were accompanied by the manger of his business, Jai, a man form India. When my friend asked Jai if he felt George seemed "sad"- Jai answered, "The whole world is sad." A poignant statement....I woke up and thought about all of the wars that have [...] 58883 55 22_Thanks for Rikud help!0_15_RONOREN@AOL.COM29_Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:28:43 EDT431_US-ASCII As camp season 2005 approaches, I'd like to personally thank TAMMY from Mosh, HAIM SIMON from Na'aleh and KEN BOB and his son from Galil for sending Gilboa their Rikud CDs so we can forge one of our own! Whether they ever put it into words or not, I'm sure the tzevet and chanichim of Gilboa will thank you every time we fire up the ram kol, put on the CDs and get the feet moving! Thanks much!! Ron Orenstein Gilboa [...] 58939 53 12_Avi Liberman0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Sun, 26 Jun 2005 02:09:57 EDT526_US-ASCII This lovely article on Susie's son appeared in the week's Jewish Week in New York -

mazal tov, Susie, and y'asher koach to Avi!

Aliya

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11041

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 58993 54 16_Re: Avi Liberman12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 25 Jun 2005 23:30:13 -0700706_iso-8859-1 Thanks for posting that, Aliyah--he's really a "cool" guy....s

--- SC523@AOL.COM wrote:

> This lovely article on Susie's son appeared in the > week's Jewish Week in New > York - > > mazal tov, Susie, and y'asher koach to Avi! > > Aliya > > http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11041 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...] 59048 131 9_Rikud CDs11_Sue Freeman19_sfreeman@CFL.RR.COM31_Sun, 26 Jun 2005 13:42:26 -0400465_iso-8859-1 A few months ago, when a posting originally appeared for Rikud CDs, there were at least two additional positing wondering if the CDs could be made available to Habonim Alumni as a possible way to raise some money. Someone was going to look into this request, but I haven't heard since. What's the status? ----- Original Message ----- From: RONOREN@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 12:28 AM Subject: Thanks for Rikud help! [...] 59180 51 15_Orange clothing16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 26 Jun 2005 23:04:00 -0400534_iso-8859-1 My son Ezra and I are in Jerusalem--I'm here for New Israel Fund meetings and he's with me until he goes to his own program. We unpacked to find that a bottle of suntan lotion had leaked onto his one dress shirt and permanently stained parts of it with orangy streaks. So, our first project was to go to Jaffa Rd to buy something to replace it. Going in and out of clothing boutiques, we found that many had either a table or a rounder set aside for orange clothing. We asked one clerk and were told (as we suspected) [...] 59232 67 15_FW: Ben Cherner12_Alex Sharone22_mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG31_Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:22:47 -0400641_windows-1250 Can anybody help him? If so, I would be happy to know what you know.

-Alex



---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Paul Cherner Date: Jun 23, 2005 4:28 PM Subject: Ben Cherner To: mazkia@habonimdror.org



Dear Mr. Sharone, I recently came across a eulogy on your web site describing the extraordinary work of one of the pioneers of your movement, Ben Cherner. My grandfather's name was Benjamin Cherner and he used to tell me that, since there were so few people with that last name, we were all related. I would like to learn more about Ben Cherner and would [...] 59300 471 10_Thank you!11_Cheryl Cook16_cheryl@JESNA.ORG31_Mon, 27 Jun 2005 17:31:20 -0400356_us-ascii I just want to thank those of you who have contributed to my ride. I truly appreciate the amazing support from many of you who only know me through the Habonet world. I'll try to post a piece about my ride- it should be an amazing experience.

Thanks,

Cheryl Cook (Attended Tavor '79-'87, currently Naaleh Camp Committee member) [...] 59772 185 48_The Battle of the Ribbons ( was Orange clothing)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:05:20 -0400313_us-ascii Thanks Judy, and while I am not quite over jet lag or caught up on my email, I have made an initial post to my Ameinu Presidential Forum on my trip to Israel. I discuss the "Battle of the Ribbons" between people distributing strips of cloth that coincide with their feelings about the disenagement. [...] 59958 301 46_[QUAR]Fw: JWR TODAY for Tuesday, June 28, 200511_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:34:40 -0700327_iso-8859-1 I wasn't going to send this article along, because it has all been said already. Then I figured, there are others that would like having it as much as I did, if only to lament the absurdity of it all- and to save one's sanity, if in just one small way. So here 'tis. The "group" does not need to open this one. [...] 60260 30 50_Re: [QUAR]Fw: JWR TODAY for Tuesday, June 28, 200512_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:26:24 -0400335_us-ascii > I wasn't going to send this article along, because it has all been said > already. Then I figured, there are others that would like having it as much > as I did, if only to lament the absurdity of it all- and to save one's > sanity, if in just one small way. So here 'tis. The "group" does not need > to open this one. [...] 60291 4018 26_Fw: Emailing: LuchHazmana311_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 28 Jun 2005 11:14:13 -0700640_iso-8859-1 I'm not sure what this is, and I couldn't open it.

Anyone????

Steve



----- Original Message -----

Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 1:01 AM Subject: Emailing: LuchHazmana3





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 64310 264 12_Reading Iraq8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:57:58 +0200606_us-ascii Reading Iraq By George Friedman

U.S. President George W. Bush made a prime-time, nationally televised speech June 28, maintaining the position he has taken from the beginning: The invasion of Iraq was essential to U.S. interests. Though the publicly stated rationale has shifted, the commitment has remained constant. Bush's speech -- and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's revelation earlier this week that the United States has been negotiating with insurgents -- represent an important milestone in the history of the war and require a consideration of the strategic situation. [...] 64575 83 72_They are not Jewish was The Battle of the Ribbons ( was Orange clothing)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:46:36 +0200612_iso-8859-1 Haverim/ot Don't be taken in by the ear locks and the orange streamers, the Rabbinical bans and the roadblocks. They claim to be the only authentic (orthodox means "the straight way") Jews. They are a superannuated atavism of what was one noble and moral.

( you must not destroy the trees of an enemy city. Are trees of the field human to withdraw before you under siege?) (Jewish Publication Society, 1962 translation ) In a contemporary, highly popular Hebrew peace song, the poet Nathan Zach (1995 recipient of the Israel Prize) appropriated this line from Deuteronomy and after his [...] 64659 224 29_Fwd: My Shimoni flat for rent13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Jun 2005 16:00:22 EDT511_US-ASCII Dear Habonetters,

I received this e-mail from a friend in J'salem. Maybe somebody is interested? The phone numbers have a 972 - 2 in front from not Israel, and 02 in Israel.

Steven Hancoff

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 64884 61 36_500K American Jews Considering Aliya0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:22:57 -0400436_us-ascii Hi folks:

The article from Ha'aretz below raises a topic that we haven't discussed recently. The data is a little hard to accept and I am sure we will hear more about in the near future.

Thoughts?

Ken ---------------------

"Some 500,000 Jews could potentially immigrate to Israel from North America over the next 15 years, according to a market survey conducted on behalf of the Jewish Agency. [...] 64946 394 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:28:53 -0400651_US-ASCII If this is anywhere near the truth, and I doubt it, (what exactly does "considering" mean?) it is probably almost all Orthodox Jews.





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of kbob24@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 9:23 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya





Hi folks:





The article from Ha'aretz below raises a topic that we haven't discussed recently. The data is a little hard to accept and I am sure we will hear more about in the near future. [...] 65341 178 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:51:32 -0400508_us-ascii Interesting, the article says that it is 1/3 Orthodox, 1/3 Conservative and 1/3 Reform and others, much to their (the survey takers) surprise.

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: David Twersky To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:28:53 -0400 Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya



If this is anywhere near the truth, and I doubt it, (what exactly does ?considering? mean?) it is probably almost all Orthodox Jews. [...] 65520 103 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:52:09 -0400463_iso-8859-1 As opposed to the 5 million or so who are considering yerida at any given time? Avi Rosenberg Gezer

Original Message: ----------------- From: David Twersky dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 09:28:53 -0400 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya



If this is anywhere near the truth, and I doubt it, (what exactly does "considering" mean?) it is probably almost all Orthodox Jews. [...] 65624 173 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:09:25 +0200594_us-ascii I think somebody should check what the people in the Sochnut are smoking. Half a million Jews from the States? Right.

Jon

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of kbob24@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:23 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya



Hi folks:

The article from Ha'aretz below raises a topic that we haven't discussed recently. The data is a little hard to accept and I am sure we will hear more about in the near future. [...] 65798 105 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:12:33 -0700625_iso-8859-1 Maybe it was referring to their weight...........s

--- Jon Baum wrote:

> I think somebody should check what the people in the > Sochnut are smoking. > Half a million Jews from the States? Right. > > Jon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh > [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On > Behalf Of kbob24@AOL.COM > Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 3:23 PM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya > > > Hi folks: > > The article from Ha'aretz below raises a topic that > we haven't discussed > recently. The data is [...] 65904 90 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:26:17 -0400352_iso-8859-1 Maybe it is 150000 orthodox and then the rest is made up of the same 10000 graduates of youth movements moving back and forth 35 times each. Judy

Original Message: ----------------- From: Jon Baum jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:09:25 +0200 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya [...] 65995 503 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:45:27 -0400540_US-ASCII What they're smoking, old friend Jon, is the money they are trying to extract to boost aliya promotion in America.





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Jon Baum Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 11:09 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya





I think somebody should check what the people in the Sochnut are smoking. Half a million Jews from the States? Right. [...] 66499 484 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya8_Jon Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:14:57 +0200441_us-ascii Yeah David, I suppose that's it With statistics like that I could prove that half the Jews in America are contemplating liposuction.

Hey! I just saw a pig fly past my window!

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of David Twersky Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 6:45 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya [...] 66984 155 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:14:50 -0400423_iso-8859-1 Half the Jews in the US probably ARE contemplating liposuction. Judy

Original Message: ----------------- From: Jon Baum jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:14:57 +0200 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya



Yeah David, I suppose that's it With statistics like that I could prove that half the Jews in America are contemplating liposuction. [...] 67140 188 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya0_25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:37:54 -0400460_us-ascii Hah, I was going to say that too. Hey, maybe... they are contemplating liposuction IN Israel!! Maybe the doctors there are better AND it's covered by Kupat Cholim? And if not, well, it should be - that might be a way to get the aliyah numbers up there...

--brian



----- Original Message ----- From: "gelman@erols.com" Date: Thursday, June 30, 2005 4:14 pm Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya [...] 67329 439 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 13:50:52 -0700467_us-ascii If not as olim, at least the Jewish tourists will come back -- to heck with Thailand for medico-tourism. Jewish Israeli doctors performing cosmetic surgery on visiting Jewish American patients -- not exactly what Ben Gurion had in mind, but better than nothing.

Sharon









briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 06/30/2005 01:37 PM Please respond to brian [...] 67769 163 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:59:15 +0000607_- Absolute bullshit Judy!! Where is the half that are not considering liposuction?



> Half the Jews in the US probably ARE contemplating liposuction. > Judy > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Jon Baum jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:14:57 +0200 > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya > > > Yeah David, I suppose that's it With statistics like that I could prove > that half the Jews in America are contemplating liposuction. > > Hey! I just saw a pig fly past my window! > > -----Original Message----- > From: Habonim [...] 67933 402 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:13:01 -0700780_us-ascii They're at home, recovering from their liposuction.

Sharon







rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 06/30/2005 02:59 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya



Absolute bullshit Judy!! Where is the half that are not considering liposuction?



> Half the Jews in the US probably ARE contemplating liposuction. > Judy > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Jon Baum jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL > Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:14:57 +0200 > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya > > > Yeah David, I suppose [...] 68336 238 40_Re: 500K American Jews Considering Aliya12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:45:12 -0700333_iso-8859-1 When I first read the "subject" line, I thought the 500K meant that only Americans weighing 500 KILO were thinkiing of making Aliyah---this would be quite a burden on the ISraeli economy; on the other hand, it would give kibbutzim and farmers more business; or maybe start a new diet plan: Lose wight-make aliyah...s [...] 68575 28 23_To all Baltimore Chevre12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:47:16 -0700343_iso-8859-1 Can anyone find, or does anyone know what has happened to the Glasner family? We have tried tolocate Judy, Ruth, or Tony--and can't find anyoen from her family anywhere. I know her father was a respected rabbi...If anyone can help; we would like to locate her for our workshop info....You can email me privately...Sue Liberman [...]