1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet April 2005 2 65 5_Uh-oh13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Fri, 1 Apr 2005 13:29:41 +0200573_windows-1255 Here you go Steve, here's one you'll love:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248

Now the Arabs - and maybe the French - can relax.

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 68 403 46_washingtonpost.com: A Better Model Than Beirut16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 1 Apr 2005 09:49:43 -0500454_us-ascii

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A14403-2005Mar30?language=printer

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 472 85 9_Re: Uh-oh0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Fri, 1 Apr 2005 07:42:54 -0800858_us-ascii Where's Nostradamus when you need him?

Sharon







Jonathan Baum Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 04/01/2005 03:29 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Uh-oh



Here you go Steve, here's one you'll love:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248

Now the Arabs - and maybe the French - can relax.





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 558 711 66_Fw: ADL Headlines: A Weekly Update from the Anti-Defamation League5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:15:02 -0800578_Windows-1252 ADL For those of you that don't get Harry's newsletters.

And Shavua Tov

Steve



Subject: Fw: ADL Headlines: A Weekly Update from the Anti-Defamation League













a.. France Urged to Respond to Anti-Semitism



b.. Report on Intimidation at Columbia “Inadequate”



c.. ADL Report: Anti-Semitism Widespread in Arab World



d.. Prejudging Jurors on Race or Religion Unacceptable



e.. Boulder Talk-Show Host Apologizes for Hate Message [...] 1270 136 9_Re: Uh-oh5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:58:25 -0800522_windows-1255 Jonathon

Thanks for the URL, but I couldn't access it.

If you have the full article still, could you send it?

Thanks

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:29 AM Subject: Uh-oh



Here you go Steve, here's one you'll love:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1111980180248

Now the Arabs - and maybe the French - can relax. [...] 1407 47 9_Re: Uh-oh0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Fri, 1 Apr 2005 15:09:49 EST383_US-ASCII Jon, Me too

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 1455 198 9_Re: Uh-oh13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 2 Apr 2005 00:28:16 +0200385_windows-1255 Steve, I can't seem to access the Jerusalem Post from any angle. Maybe they're having trouble with their web site. I'll try again tomorrow. Must sleep now...

Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:58 PM Subject: Re: Uh-oh



Jonathon

Thanks for the URL, but I couldn't access it. [...] 1654 119 17_the Uh-oh article13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 2 Apr 2005 07:47:45 +0200725_windows-1255 Koran scholar: US will cease to exist in 2007



---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Khaled Abu Toameh, THE JERUSALEM POST Mar. 29, 2005

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

A thorough analysis of the Koran reveals that the US will cease to exist in the year 2007, according to research published by Palestinian scholar Ziad Silwadi.

The study, which has caught the attention of millions of Muslims worldwide, is based on in-depth interpretations of various verses in the Koran. It predicts that the US will be hit by a tsunami larger than that which recently struck southeast Asia. [...] 1774 101 34_Clean up the Hametz - Avoid Mutard12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sun, 3 Apr 2005 20:35:45 +0200520_us-ascii Haverim/ot below are some lines by Yair Sheleg which appeared in today's Ha'aretz. Sheleg wrote a highly regarded position paper: The Political and Social Ramifications of Evacuating Settlements in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip for the Israel Democracy Institute



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/560072.html To shorten the piece and to clean up the translation I've taken the liberty of making some emendations. If you'd like to read the unexpurgated version click on the link above. [...] 1876 68 36_Question about Ein Harod - Elleville0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM28_Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:27:45 EDT464_US-ASCII Folks:

Someone contacted Alex Sharone, the current mazkir Habonim Dror, with the following question. Can anyone help with driving directions?

"Hi, I was wondering if you had the address of the old camp Ein Harod and if you knew what was on that location at this time? I will be driving through Ellenville at the end of April and was thinking of trying to locate my old camp but cannot for the life of me remember where exactly it was?" [...] 1945 50 40_Re: Question about Ein Harod - Elleville20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:11:45 -0700315_us-ascii



Ken--

Perhaps the person to contact about this would be Dov Nahari, who I understand is still in Bergen County somewhere. I knew him as my Hebrew school principal, but he also ran Kineret - a non-orthodox day school - and I believe he ran Ein Harod for years before the merger. [...] 1996 26 57_Fw: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple ,the holiest Jewish site.5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:00:04 -0700523_iso-8859-1 Does anybody out there know any more of this? How could it even happen?

Steve

Subject: Fw: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple ,the holiest Jewish site.



> Subject: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 2023 372 36_Fw: The Real Abbas from frontpagemag5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:28:50 -0700487_UTF-8

While sending this along, I am also asking the question: How much time should Abbas be given with the current road he is travelling (and once again allowing the Palestinian people to screw up a golden opportunity for changing their lives)? Second question: In the event that Abbas shows he is incapable of turning things around, what is the next step? I, for one, am praying that they succeed in declaring peace. Right now it looks as if that may elude us once again. [...] 2396 438 53_Fw: Jewish groups set to break off with Presbyterians5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:42:05 -0700608_UTF-8

Of interest to most of us.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Jewish groups set to break off with Presbyterians









(04/01/2005) New Tack In Divestment War As Jewish groups set to break off with Presbyterians, AJCongress takes Israelג€™s case to boardroom.

James D. Besser - Washington Correspondent

Frustrated that dialogue is proving fruitless in the protracted fight with the Presbyterian Church (USA) over the explosive divestment issue, Jewish groups are set to break off or limit talks with the mainline Christian denomination. [...] 2835 622 88_Fw: Palestinian Terror Attacks Against Jews Will Resume After Gaza Withdrawal - 040120055_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 10:51:01 -0700820_UTF-8 Disturbing but important information.

Steve





Subject: Fw: Palestinian Terror Attacks Against Jews Will Resume After Gaza Withdrawal - 04012005













April 1, 2005 Contact: (212) 481-1500 Attn: NEWS EDITOR





ISRAELI MILITARY: PALESTINIAN TERROR ATTACKS AGAINST JEWS WILL RESUME AFTER COMPLETION OF GAZA WITHDRAWAL





NEW YORK - Israelג€™s largest newspaper, Yediot Ahronot (April 1, 2005), reported that the Palestinian terror/murder war against the Jews of Israel will resume as soon as Israel completes the forced deportation and transfer of 9000 Jews according to the Sharon/Bush Gaza withdrawal plan. Military sources said that the focus of renewed Palestinian terror attacks will be in [...] 3458 44 57_Re: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple ,the holiest Jewish site.13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 21:06:08 +0200517_iso-8859-1 it "happened" while Jordanians were repairing the wall. the writing is high up, so had to be done on a ladder or scaffolding. For political reasons the Jordanians rather than palestinian arabs were chosen to be in charge of repairing the wall, which is located on the eastern side of the compound.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve" To: Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 7:00 PM Subject: Fw: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple ,the holiest Jewish site. [...] 3503 131 40_Re: Question about Ein Harod - Elleville13_Dan Bernstein17_dsb1@NYCAP.RR.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:32:57 -0400558_us-ascii This is actually from a Habonim spouse who was in Hashomer Hatzair, at Camp Shomria, but visited there occasionally (Efrat Levy, using Dan Berntsein's email address). I am fairly certain that the place can be found heading west on Route 52 out of Ellenville (towards L:iberty). Soon after leaving Ellenville, you bear right on either Ulster Heights Road or something that shows up on Mapquest as County Route 53. I'm not sure which one it is but I am pretty sure it is one of these two. What remains of the site should be a few miles up one of [...] 3635 54 13_Israeli trash0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 19:56:19 +0000783_- Since Habonet is evolving into a repository for other people's articles, I submit a few things in the interest of a "fair and balanced" view.

Israeli garbage deposited in West Bank http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=560433&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

Everyone gets so upset about comparisons with South Africa http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/560935.html

A land grab? http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/560918.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 3690 117 61_Re: Fw: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple ,the holiest Jewish site.16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:04:24 -0400369_us-ascii The word "Allah" in Arabic was found carved along the eastern side of the extension of the wall being excavated. No one knows who did it. It is presumed to be an Arab because of the content. Carving in stone is a long, slow process and so this "graffiti" shows the lackness of Israeli security on the site. It was in JPost and Haaretx online. Judy Gelman [...] 3808 149 61_Re: Fw: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple ,the holiest Jewish site.16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:13:51 -0400535_us-ascii Sorry--the word was "laxness"! Judy

Judith R. Gelman wrote:

> The word "Allah" in Arabic was found carved along the eastern side of > the extension of the wall being excavated. No one knows who did it. > It is presumed to be an Arab because of the content. Carving in stone > is a long, slow process and so this "graffiti" shows the lackness of > Israeli security on the site. > It was in JPost and Haaretx online. > Judy Gelman > > Steve wrote: > >> Does anybody out there know any more of this? How could [...] 3958 188 17_Re: Israeli trash5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:09:03 -0700594_iso-8859-1 Richard

Thank you for the articles. For clarification: You do not need an excuse to send articles that pertain to Israel. They are all of interest by the fact that they pertain to Israel. I never understood the negativity involved with the forwarding of articles. Most of us have expressed appreciation when something informative has been sent to share with the rest of us. As far as I know, no one ever said Habonet was only for material originating with the sender. That restriction would be unfortunate, as it would severely limit those of us that read better than we [...] 4147 71 57_Re: Arabs Carve Allah on Temple ,the holiest Jewish site.5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 14:13:35 -0700362_iso-8859-1 Pearl

Thank you! If that's what happened, it kind of reminds me of the "graffiti" at the caves in Beit Guvrin. The caves were carved out of sandstone (soft and easily worked), and some of the workers left their creativity on the walls as they worked their way down. Today, one must look 'way up at the roofs of the caves to even see them. [...] 4219 125 30_Pot Holes On The Road To Peace11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 16:45:36 -0500684_us-ascii AFTER THE DISENGAGEMENT:POTHOLES ON THE ROAD MAP TO PEACE

by



Robert O. Freedman







Following Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's twin victories in the Knesset last week, getting his budget passed and defeating a call for a national referendum on the disengagement from Gaza and four settlements in the Northern West Bank, it appears that the Israeli disengagement plan, scheduled for this summer, is on track. However, once the disengagement is completed, it is an open question as to whether there will be continued progress on the path to an Israel-Palestinian peace. This is the case for three reasons. First, with [...] 4345 67 17_Re: Israeli trash0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 4 Apr 2005 18:56:57 EDT418_US-ASCII Richard.

The most interesting part of what you posted was the article about Ma-aleh Adumim. This is a very important issue because it flies in the face of America has asked of Israel. I first heard of this on NPR. Later I read about it in the New York Times. Now it is being reported in Ha-aretz. I suppose the answer of those who don't like this debate is to close down NPR the NYT and Ha-aretz. [...] 4413 19 40_Re: Question about Ein Harod - Elleville13_irving lutsky20_lutsky@CC.HUJI.AC.IL30_Tue, 5 Apr 2005 14:41:18 +0200487_us-ascii Tell hm to contact dineytuch@msn.com this is Shila Tuchman's father. Pesach sameach Chassia Lutsky (Berel's mother)

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 4433 274 38_Re: Clean up the Hametz - Avoid Mutard0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Apr 2005 07:46:16 EDT630_US-ASCII Thank you for that excellent article Amnon. Now here is another from today's Haaretz that caught my attention..

Sam



A Zionist ruling par excellence By Yosef Gorny Statements such as that made by Deputy Supreme Court President Mishael Cheshin in his concurring opinion recognizing Reform and Conservative conversions for the purposes of the Law of Return - that such recognition "annexes a person to a nation, to `the eternal people,' to history, to a culture thousands of years old" - have not been heard here for a long time. For it contains a clear, unambiguous statement of the principle on [...] 4708 58 40_Re: Question about Ein Harod - Elleville0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM28_Tue, 5 Apr 2005 08:12:33 EDT543_US-ASCII Thank you to Chassia (good to hear from you) and Efrat, my favorite Hashomer spouse of a Habonim alum :-).

I will pass alog your suggestions and comments to the person who asked the question.

Warm regards,

Ken Bob

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4767 50 26_kibbutz Shamir and its IPO16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 5 Apr 2005 13:07:50 -0400619_us-ascii

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=559583&contrassID=1&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 4818 24 10_Formatting16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 5 Apr 2005 22:51:14 -0400500_- Does anyone know how to get rid of all of the excess formatting or gibberish that seems to take up most of the space in the majority of the postings I receive?

Thanks,

Marc Hershkowitz

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4843 120 30_Re: kibbutz Shamir and its IPO0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:21:41 -0400535_us-ascii Well, in the "great minds think alike" category (yes, I am opening myself up to some wisecracks here), I just finished commenting on this article in my Ameinu Presidential Forum.

http://www.ameinu.net/community/forums/index.php?showtopic=19.

Feel free to comment there AND here (sort of like voting early and often).

Ken

P.S. Here is the commercial - if you want to be notified when new content appears on the Ameinu site, just pop over to www.ameinu.net and sign up for the weekly newsletter [...] 4964 76 42_Personal Invitation to See/Hear Ami Ayalon0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:34:25 -0400375_us-ascii Habonetters:

Previously it has been mentioned here that Ameinu is sponsoring a U.S. tour of Ami Ayalon. For those not familiar with Ami, he is a retired Admiral of the Israel Navy, former director of the Shin Bet, the counter-intelligence and internal security forces, and now a crusader for a just and lasting peace between Israel and the Palestinians. [...] 5041 169 58_Maybe they could get together with the Caterpillar boycott13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 08:29:21 +0200674_windows-1255 British motion to boycott Israeli Academics



---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Talya Halkin, THE JERUSALEM POST Apr. 5, 2005

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

The Birmingham University branch of the AUT (the older of the UK's two academic trade unions) has put four motions on the council's agenda, one of which is also being supported by the Open University's union branch. Three of these motions call for a boycott of specific academic institutions – Haifa University, The Hebrew University in Jerusalem, and Bar-Ilan University. [...] 5211 218 22_proposed old boys-cott12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:48:13 +0200385_windows-1255 "Israel is in quite a unique position, because it has respectability and academic links with the West which it doesn't deserve."

Ah, the deserving West. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Baum" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 8:29 AM Subject: Maybe they could get together with the Caterpillar boycott [...] 5430 48 26_Re: proposed old boys-cott11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:18:57 -0400462_windows-1255 Sounds a bit more like a girls-cott to me, but perhaps we should boycott Earl Grey Tea and scones in response? I know I'm already off British beef...

Perhaps it is the West which (believes it) enjoys a respectibility which it doesn't deserve....

Noam

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessica Bonn" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:48 AM Subject: proposed old boys-cott [...] 5479 217 46_Re: Personal Invitation to See/Hear Ami Ayalon16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 06:53:24 -0400635_us-ascii Directions for Baltimore and DC area folks/ /to *Adat Shalom *7727 Persimmon Tree Lane Bethesda, Md: For more information see www.adatshalom.NET



See you all there! Judy Gelman





From *Baltimore* and other locations on *I-95*:

Take I-95 to the *Capital Beltway 495 West*- (Silver Spring Northern Virginia). You will be on I-495 for a little under 14 miles before you take *Exit 39, Rt. 190 River Road*. As you exit I-495, you need to pay careful attention because there are several options. While still on the exit road, take your first right, which goes up a hill. As you go up [...] 5697 122 17_Re: Israeli trash0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:23:03 -0400583_us-ascii Richard, There have been many references over the years to Israel as an aparteid state. As I have grown older I have come to understand that all issues are complex, that there are always many points of view with elements in their favor, that the opposite is also true, and that "winning" is a false goal. All these old age discoveries seem relevant to the aparteid issue. Somehow I am comfortable with the idea of Israel being a pluralist, secular state where Jews are treated differently than everyone else. Can you point to discussions of this issue which don't find [...] 5820 87 17_Re: Israeli trash0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:30:08 EDT504_US-ASCII

In a message dated 4/6/2005 12:23:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dlerner569@AOL.COM writes:



Can you point to discussions of this issue which don't find it necessary to take sides, but are comfortable with ambiguity and contradiction? Dennis





Probably NOT Dennis "separate but equal" wasn't a just value system when Jim Crow ruled and American Jews who valued justice rallied against it in Mississippi as we continue to do so today in Jerusalem. [...] 5908 1793 71_Fw: The NEWS from ISRAEL on Monday, April 4, 2005 and 24 Adar 2nd, 57655_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:39:54 -0700363_iso-8859-1 News we can all use. Particularly interesting to me are the events at Columbia U and the events in Russia.

Some of you may once again insist this is "too much news" coming in all at once, while others welcome the information. For those of you that want to get the 90% I don't send along, contact Harry Gluckman directly to get on his list. [...] 7702 140 17_Re: Israeli trash0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 16:46:23 +0000508_- I do not think that Israel is in the same position as South Africa during apartheid I simply point out, with the use of the article, that the situations are not entirely different either. Mostly I am infuriated by those who see any criticism of Israel as anti-Semetic. Personally I could not live comfortably in any country that defines people's position in society by their ethnic heritage. Nor would I feel comforable living somewhere they feel they have to control the ethnic purity of the nation. [...] 7843 2544 72_Fw: Papal Nuncio was on the ball re PA anti semitism and its textbooks..5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 09:57:47 -0700328_iso-8859-1

----- I'd like to hear comments (other than "Why is it so long?") on what in the world is going on with watchdogs that aren't watching. I doubt the piece is made up, but that is a constant possibility.

Steve

Subject: Fw: Papal Nuncio was on the ball re PA anti semitism and its textbooks.. [...] 10388 84 9_Frontline0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:54:52 EDT596_US-ASCII

Did anyone see the Frontline show entitled 'Israel's Next War' aired last night on the fundamentalist Israeli settlers who are bent on fomenting an apocalyptic war in order to create the conditions for the return of the Messiah? The interviews with these people...their mind set and willingness to go to any length to return to a 'biblical' past gave me the shivers. This piece was not only chilling in and of itself but I couldn't stop shaking my head at parallels between the Jewish Fundamentalists and Islamic counterparts. Ami Ayalon was interviewed too for this story. [...] 10473 293 17_Re: Israeli trash5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:01:26 -0700575_iso-8859-1 Dennis

What I find most humorous in this discussion is the willingness- no, the enthusiasm- of the world to drive us like cattle into ghettoes not all that very long ago. Remember the ghettoes? Extremely tiny areas of living space, surrounded by walls, fencing the Jews in, and keeping the rest of the world out. Nobody complained that this area was "too Jewish" at the time! Along came some idea-people and said, "If it will make the world that happy, let's try to have a Jewish ghetto, but let's make it a voluntary Jewish ghetto. If we ask for just [...] 10767 571 38_Fw: DOES ISRAEL HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST?5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 11:03:46 -0700530_UTF-8

Dennis

In the same vein.

Steve



Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:33 AM Subject: DOES ISRAEL HAVE A RIGHT TO EXIST?





-

An implicit rejection of Israel's right to exist. . . .The purpose of the question is to attack Israel and justify those who attack Israel!

B"H

Does Israel Have a Right to Exist? By David Meir-Levi, FrontPageMagazine.com | April 6, 2005 Isralert.com source: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17584 [...] 11339 101 13_Re: Frontline0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:24:01 EDT658_US-ASCII

Marc. I will watch this. I had a good idea of how dangerous the settlers movement was before this. But you should be doing more than shaking your head. These Jewish fundamentalist are a very very dangerous minority.

Sam

In a message dated 4/6/2005 1:55:49 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Mmxmm@AOL.COM writes:



Did anyone see the Frontline show entitled 'Israel's Next War' aired last night on the fundamentalist Israeli settlers who are bent on fomenting an apocalyptic war in order to create the conditions for the return of the Messiah? The interviews with these people...their mind set and willingness to go [...] 11441 68 13_Re: Frontline0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:38:14 EDT664_US-ASCII

In a message dated 4/6/2005 11:25:05 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Smfgrappa@AOL.COM writes:

But you should be doing more than shaking your head. These Jewish fundamentalist are a very very dangerous minority.



You are very right about that. The interviews with these people were so frightening I really am really still stunned.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 11510 36 13_Re: Frontline12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:08:50 -0700553_us-ascii I watched in horror as the settlers - with smiles on their faces- bragged about their "operation" to blow up Arab children....Thank God they failed....and with smirks stated that "God intervened"--How can these people call themselves "jewish"??? I am also stunned and horrified, and hope that this minority can somehow be "squelched"- I thought, fortunately or unfortunately, that it was sad there was no coverage of those who oppose this, except from Ayalon's interview....Were there any demonstrations in Israel???...Ugh!!! It's an ugly [...] 11547 417 34_Fw: ISRAEL'S PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 12:30:02 -0700487_iso-8859-1

Great nostalgia! Had to share it.

Steve



Subject: ISRAEL'S PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION







Note: forwarded message attached.

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11965 78 38_Re: Fw: ISRAEL'S PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:47:43 -0700717_us-ascii Steve- I couldn't open anything--can you paste it in an email and send it to me?? When are we all doing lunch???-sue



--- Steve wrote:

> > Great nostalgia! Had to share it. > > Steve > > > Subject: ISRAEL'S PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION > > > > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG> > > Note: [...] 12044 53 13_On extremists16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 19:47:54 -0400635_us-ascii I didn't get to see the Frontline piece but it certainly is timely. Judy Gelman http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1112754019218

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 12098 120 13_Re: Frontline0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Wed, 6 Apr 2005 20:48:26 -0400695_us-ascii I happened to "channel flip" into this program. Yes, extreme fundamentalists are consistently scary across religions and causes.

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: Mmxmm@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:54:52 EDT Subject: Frontline





Did anyone see the Frontline show entitled 'Israel's Next War' aired last night on the fundamentalist Israeli settlers who are bent on fomenting an apocalyptic war in order to create the conditions for the return of the Messiah? The interviews with these people...their mind set and willingness to go to any length to return to a 'biblical' past gave me the shivers. This piece was not [...] 12219 214 17_Re: Israeli trash0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM30_Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:08:40 -0400581_us-ascii

This is my point. You want Israel to be open and equal for all. This is consonant with our American liberal tradition (I'm a proud part of that tradition). Steve sent a nice note pointing out how it was alright for the world to put us in ghettos, but when we voluntarily ghettoize ourselves, we're racists, etc. Hiam make a similar point. It may be nothing new for Jews (good, intellegent, knowledgeable Jews) to hold opposing opinions, but is there an effort by anyone to find a way to hamonize the opposing views rather that simply taking sides and helping [...] 12434 189 17_Re: Israeli trash12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 7 Apr 2005 12:23:22 -0700586_us-ascii In 1950, at the age of 6, in a Jewish neighborhood in Baltimore, Md., I was stoned while walking to a Purim carnival dressed as Haman....by a few "new-to-the-neighborhood" Christian kids. I ended up needing a few stitches in my forehead...It was a real trauma to me...What I remember as being such a strong impact was my first Purim in ISrael when the whole country celebrated, and I was free to be "me."-- Let's face it, ethnic groups "ghettoize" themselves, but there is also, in a free and democratic land, opportunity to go wherever and whenver one likes. "There goes [...] 12624 292 17_Re: Israeli trash12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:14:00 +0200664_windows-1255 Where can one live 'comfortably' (any more... or ever)? Perhaps in the 'deserving west'? ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 6:46 PM Subject: Re: Israeli trash



I do not think that Israel is in the same position as South Africa during apartheid I simply point out, with the use of the article, that the situations are not entirely different either. Mostly I am infuriated by those who see any criticism of Israel as anti-Semetic. Personally I could not live comfortably in any country that defines people's position in society by their ethnic heritage. [...] 12917 174 29_Habonim Dror and the Settlers12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:58:03 -0400325_us-ascii From today's Arutz-Sheva newsletter. (Don't ask me how I got it. All I'll say is that I don't subscribe.)

I have mixed emotions about the article. I'm glad that today's Habonim Dror chevre are open-minded enough to listen to the lunatic fringe; I hope that today's chevre are also giving them heartburn. [...] 13092 123 17_Re: Israeli trash13_Steve Hancoff12_SHX2@AOL.COM28_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:36:22 EDT306_US-ASCII I am writing from Karkur, near to Pardes Hannah, where we live some of the year. Once a month there is a shikshuk, a sort of local flea market, where the community gathers once a month to socialize, eat together and hope neighbors will take trash/crafts off of their hands for a small price. [...] 13216 69 17_Re: Israeli trash0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:40:28 +0000560_- A number of things have been said on this thread that I began which I would like to which I would like to respond.

First of all something that was never said is that Israel today is exactly like South Africa under apartheid or that Israel practices apartheid. I didn’t say it and no one else on this list did either. I did bring the word up when commenting on an article from Ha’aretz about the Israeli Supreme Court decision that denied citizenship to Arabs who marry Israeli citizens. There is no way to deny that is discrimination. My comment [...] 13286 54 17_Re: Israeli trash12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:20:37 -0700337_us-ascii Israel is better than > totalitarian Arab governments and countries. Should > we be opening Champaign bottles and patting > ourselves on our backs for that?> > Perhaps Dennis (I think it was Dennis) is right, > that we must accept two opposite ideas as being > true. The trouble is that two opposite ideas can’t > be true. [...] 13341 764 66_Fw: ADL Headlines: A Weekly Update from the Anti-Defamation League5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:13:16 -0700513_iso-8859-1 ADL I hadn't realised the YMCA proposed such a resolution (or stance). Have I read this wrong?

Steve











----- Original Message ----- From: Anti-Defamation League To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:12 PM Subject: ADL Headlines: A Weekly Update from the Anti-Defamation League







a.. Anti-Semitic Incidents Up 17 Percent in 2004



b.. World Mourns the Loss of Pope John Paul II [...] 14106 137 54_Fw: in memorial to israeli children that were murdered5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:33:10 -0700506_iso-8859-8

sdrawkcab sdaeR



It is with great sadness that I send this along. It is difficult to watch and it is lengthy.

Steve







----- Original Message ----- From: yonit hemo To: amitco7@yahoo.com Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:55 AM Subject: Fw: in memorial to israeli children that were murdered

















in memorial to israeli children that were murdered [...] 14244 437 53_Fw: Jewish groups set to break off with Presbyterians5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:36:37 -0700615_UTF-8

Of ongoing interest and importance to us.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Jewish groups set to break off with Presbyterians







(04/01/2005) New Tack In Divestment War As Jewish groups set to break off with Presbyterians, AJCongress takes Israelג€™s case to boardroom.

James D. Besser - Washington Correspondent

Frustrated that dialogue is proving fruitless in the protracted fight with the Presbyterian Church (USA) over the explosive divestment issue, Jewish groups are set to break off or limit talks with the mainline Christian denomination. [...] 14682 275 49_Fw: Denouncing Israel Price for Social Acceptance5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:40:50 -0700319_iso-8859-1

I don't remember if I have already sent this. I think I sent a duplicate of a recent posting. Sorry if I have. I'd rather err on the side of caution and send twice. Those of you that have read it before need not read it again.

Steve Subject: Denouncing Israel Price for Social Acceptance [...] 14958 75 12_Mail blocked5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 09:55:22 -0700634_iso-8859-1 Habonet

A letter I sent concerning the goings-on at CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations) was blocked by Habonet and returned to me.

It couldn't have been because of message size. What are the current criteria for the blocking of messages onto Habonet?

Curious in California

Steve



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 15034 51 16_Re: Mail blocked0_25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:50:32 -0400685_us-ascii Unfortunately, nothing is blocked at this time.

Can you forward the message you received to me (not to the list), please.

--brian

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Date: Friday, April 8, 2005 12:55 pm Subject: Mail blocked

> Habonet > > A letter I sent concerning the goings-on at CAIR (Council on > American-Islamic Relations) was blocked by Habonet and returned to me. > > It couldn't have been because of message size. What are the > current criteria for the blocking of messages onto Habonet? > > Curious in California > > Steve > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- [...] 15086 24 16_Re: Mail blocked12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:01:04 -0400488_us-ascii >Unfortunately, nothing is blocked at this time.

ROTFLMAO!!! This may be the best line ever written in the history of Habonet.

Shabbat shalom everybody,

David

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 15111 56 16_Re: Mail blocked0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:06:08 +0000621_- I second that.

-------------- Original message --------------

> >Unfortunately, nothing is blocked at this time. > > ROTFLMAO!!! This may be the best line ever written in the history of Habonet. > > Shabbat shalom everybody, > > David > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 15168 47 16_Re: Mail blocked13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:27:45 -0400319_iso-8859-1 third.

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15216 76 58_Re: Fw: in memorial to israeli children that were murdered12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:21:01 -0700531_us-ascii Steve- again couldn't find the link for the memorial to Israeli children- can you paste it in the email?--s --- Steve wrote: > > sdrawkcab sdaeR > > > It is with great sadness that I send this along. > It is difficult to watch and it is lengthy. > > Steve > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: yonit hemo > To: amitco7@yahoo.com > Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 1:55 AM > Subject: Fw: in memorial to israeli children that > were murdered > > > > > > > > > > [...] 15293 138 33_Re: Habonim Dror and the Settlers0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM30_Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:14:58 -0400410_utf-8 David:

I actually think this is a good thing. Being educated means understanding the issues and part of visiting Israel is real live encounters instead of just reading about it from abroad. I am sure their madrichim work with them on these encounters. When they go back to their communities and campuses they will be in a better position to understand the settlers and the issues in general. [...] 15432 533 63_Fw: Fwd: Fw: =?windows-1255?Q?=F8=F7_=E8=E5=E1?= / from rutheov5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:42:05 -0700315_windows-1255

----- Original Message ----- From: molli To: diana naaman ; fay wittert ; helen gold ; Josef Orchan ; Kleins Designs ; marianne reuvni ; paula felberg ; pnina some ; ruth vered ; sarah peken ; sema sweiger Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:26 AM Subject: Fw: Fwd: Fw: רק טוב / from rutheov [...] 15966 98 38_everyone had enough to eat (Exodus 16)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:27:29 +0200617_iso-8859-1 THE DYNAMICS OF POVERTY and HUNGER Look at movement in our movement. While there were many socialists in Habonim in the thirties , the majority had moderated their views by the early sixties becoming predominantly supporters of social justice. It would probably prove invidious to ascribe this only to higher incomes. When I went to Oranim, the kibbutz teachers’ college, we were introduced to the view of the French Physiocrats, an 18th century school of economic thinkers. They believed that all wealth originated with the land. So that when the early kibbutzniks sang Banu bli kol va khol “we came [...] 16065 84 17_Re: Israeli trash0_13_sc523@AOL.COM31_Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:38:21 -0400496_iso-8859-1 Go, Hancoff!

Aliya

-----Original Message----- From: Steve Hancoff To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 05:36:22 EDT Subject: Re: Israeli trash

I am writing from Karkur, near to Pardes Hannah, where we live some of the year. Once a month there is a shikshuk, a sort of local flea market, where the community gathers once a month to socialize, eat together and hope neighbors will take trash/crafts off of their hands for a small price. [...] 16150 308 40_Plasan Sasa in the Philadelphia Inquirer13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:50:13 +0200435_windows-1255 Posted on Sun, Apr. 10, 2005





Marines cobbled armor together more quickly

By Tom Infield and Michael Matza Inquirer Staff Writers

When the Marines went to Iraq a year ago to help quell the insurgency, they got a nasty surprise.

They needed to shield their vehicles. But the only armor available was too thin, and designed primarily for stopping bullets, not roadside bombs. [...] 16459 217 19_For Balt/DC chevreh13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 10 Apr 2005 19:58:17 -0400295_us-ascii I want to remind you of your chance to see Adm Ami Ayalon and hear him talk about The People's Voice Initiative on Monday, April 11 at 7:45 (7:15 to nosh) at Adat Shalom, 7727 Persimmon Tree Lane, Bethesda, MD. This event is FREE.

Hope to see many of you there. Judy Gelman [...] 16677 152 42_Worth seeing Ami (was For Balt/DC chevreh)0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:58:38 -0400381_us-ascii Hey Everyone:

Just finished our first day with the Ami Ayalon in New York and is worth the effort to go see him speak. I recommend that you try and catch him if you live in Balt-Wash (11th), New York (13th) and San Francisco (14th). Details are on at www.ameinu.net. We will also transcribe the conference call we did with him today and will share when ready. [...] 16830 4066 68_Fw: =?windows-1255?Q?=E1=E9=EF_=EB=F0=F8=FA_=EC=E1=E9=FA_=F9=E0=EF?=5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:34:52 -0700479_windows-1255

This should be entertaining to those of you that read Hewrew- or like pictures.

Steve



Subject: בין כנרת לבית שאן



בין כנרת לבית שאן





אנחנו שמחים להזמין אתכם לצאת לטיול מסוג שונה: טיול בזמן. מדי שבוע נפרסם כאן פיסות היסטוריה מתוך אחד האוספים שתועדו והונצחו במעבדת "ביתמונה", הצצה נדירה אל עברה של ארץ ישראל. מדור חדש - תמונות ישנות, והפעם: אוסף התמונות של אליהו כהן ז"ל, ממייסדי קיבוץ אשדות יעקב [...] 20897 463 27_Fw: Lying about Deir Yassin5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:40:34 -0700680_iso-8859-1

This will change no one's mind on the subject either way, but is certainly worthy of reading.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Lying about Deir Yassin









>From: Steven Plaut >To: undisclosed-recipients: ; >Subject: Lying about Deir Yassin >Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 11:46:44 +0300 (IDT) > > >Lying about Deir Yassin > > >This week is the anniversary of the events that took place in the >Arab village of Deir Yassin in 1948. In recent years, Deir Yassin >has been converted into a bludgeon by the Far Left, the Neonazi >Right, and Israel-bashers in general. > >Deir Yassin is the ultimate [...] 21361 66 11_Deir Yassin28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:19:00 +0200581_iso-8859-1 I was going to write a reply to the article that was posted about Deir Yassin. However, I received comments by Ami Isseroff that pretty much summed up what I had to say. Part of what he wrote apears below:

Critics complain that Zionists have created a "Holocaust industry" to capitalize on the suffering of the Jews in Europe. However, the same critics are among those who have created a Deir Yassin industry, to trade on the suffering of the Palestinians and to inflate an incident into a cause, and an excuse to denying legitimacy to an entire people. The [...] 21428 457 17_Re: Israeli trash0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:16:08 -0400559_us-ascii Hi Sue,

There is no question that the ingathering brings a very diverse crowd to the table. I'm all for diversity. More importantly I'm not taking a side. I see an apparent paradox, but only think I hear one side of what must be an ongoing conversation about what kind of country is this. I'm with you 100% on the abhorence of a Juden Frei anything, and Israel is certainly not Arab free, but an open borders policy would lead overnight to an arab majority and the prospect of a Juden Frei Israel. This leaves us with ambiguity. Is there [...] 21886 212 17_Re: Israeli trash0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:24:48 -0400564_us-ascii Richard, Personally, we feel similarly, but the question is, for there to be a debate there must be arguments on at least both sides. We hear the argument for keeping Israel a majority Jewish state. We hear the argument (mostly from anti-semites who see an opportunity to use an issue to support their prejudice) that to have a state that sets limits on the number of non-dominant members it has is racist. (You, of course, don't hear that Sudi Arabia is racist, or Iraq or Iran, but leave that aside.) Is there a case being made for not defining in [...] 22099 186 17_Re: Israeli trash0_18_dlerner569@AOL.COM31_Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:01:17 -0400359_utf-8 "The trouble is that two opposite ideas canג€™t > be true."

I know nothing of eastern philosophies (poor me) but I think this is one of the fundamental truths - a thing is one with its opposite. Good an evil are the same depending on one's perspective. Truth and lies are again, not independent of each other. Ambiguity is the proof. Dennis [...] 22286 816 13_Ameinu survey13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:14:57 -0400 23103 198 18_Poem, another poem12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:30:13 +0200433_us-ascii Haverim/ot Just ran across the poem below by a (to me) unknown Christian Arab poet. It was translated by Karen Alkalay-Gut a British-Israeli poet.



Nazih Khere

IDENTITY

Those who were baptized in the Jordan said:

This is my land!

And those who fell tonight on the bridges said:

This is my land!

And those who wept on the roofs of Jerusalem said: This is my land! [...] 23302 25 31_Breaking the Silence- a website11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:16:45 -0500607_us-ascii Breaking the Silence http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ The Breaking the Silence (Shovrim Shtika) organization, dedicated to exposing what really goes on in the territories from the perspective of discharged IDF combat soldiers, has recently made its site available in English. There is a lot of interesting material here to sift through, including relevant articles (as well as translations of articles into English from daily Hebrew newspapers), testimonies and a gallery of images that appeared as part of the controversial "Breaking the Silence: Fighters Tell about Hebron" exhibition. [...] 23328 892 44_Fw: Texas Style Middle East Peace Settlement5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:15:11 -0700435_iso-8859-1

This is humor.

Steve



Subject: Texas Style Middle East Peace Settlement



> >> >

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24221 5916 24_Fw: Occupied Territories5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:23:41 -0700 30138 791 43_[BULK] Fw: Caving In to J - Srdja Trifkovic5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:38:03 -0700639_utf-8



My apologies for the delay. This was the blocked article, only for those interested in following CAIR shananigans.





Steve









Caving In to Jihad: National Review, CAIR, and My Book by Srdja Trifkovic

Stalinג€™s purged comrades were routinely airbrushed from photographs and replaced with vases, chairs, or shrubs. Last week I had an inkling of how it feels: a flattering review of my book The Sword of the Prophet was abruptly removed from the National Review Online bookstore, under pressure from the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). [...] 30930 46 14_Sad Peace Song12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:41:17 +0200436_us-ascii Haverot/im

Ehud Manor who wrote more than a thousand songs died two days ago aged 64. Perhaps his most popular, certainly his most ideological was Ein li eretz acheret, where sotto voce he protested the militaristic new face of Israel

He said that although the song was true to his feelings he was sorry he composed it because it was misunderstood by the mitnachlim who picked it up as their patriotic flag. [...] 30977 42 14_Sad Peace Song12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:50:51 +0200550_us-ascii Haverot/im

Ehud Manor who wrote more than a thousand songs died two days ago aged 64. Perhaps his most popular, certainly his most ideological was Ein li eretz acheret. Where sotto voce he protested the militaristic new face of Israel

I have no other country Even if my land is burning A word in Hebrew enters my veins, my soul, In a weak body, in a broken heart My home is here. I won't keep still because my country changed her face I won't stop remembering her And I will sing here in her ear Until she opens her eyes. [...] 31020 70 18_Re: Sad Peace Song5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:57:25 -0700673_iso-8859-1 Amnon

Thank you for sending this beautiful song (and prayer).

Steve

PS Could the word "lamented" fit into the space alloted to "protested"?





----- Original Message ----- From: "Amnon Hadary" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:41 PM Subject: Sad Peace Song



> Haverot/im > > Ehud Manor who wrote more than a thousand songs died two days ago aged 64. > Perhaps his most popular, certainly his most ideological was Ein li eretz > acheret, where sotto voce he protested the militaristic new face of Israel > > He said that although the song was true to [...] 31091 40 16_Habitus Magazine11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:33:15 -0500491_ISO-8859-1 http://www.habitusmag.com/index.php?section=article&album_id=8

What is Habitus?





Habitus Magazine is a new, international journal of Diaspora literature and culture. Our focus is the Jewish experience in the Diaspora, and Diaspora as a universal experience that mirrors and invigorates our own. Emphasizing literature, photography, criticism and reportage, our goal is to explore the lives of Jews and others in various locales around the globe. [...] 31132 54 21_Who let the Jews out?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:51:29 +0200429_windows-1255 Chag Sameach.

http://www.passovergreeting.com/

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 31187 143 44_From the Spectator - on the academic boycott13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 14 Apr 2005 21:22:30 +0200585_windows-1255 Anti-Semitic studies Douglas Davis

Pay attention, Professor. If you support the proposed academic boycott of Israel — and if you are to remain intellectually honest — prepare for a radical lifestyle change. Firstly, unplug your computer. Good. Now switch off your interactive digital television set. Well done. And now throw away your mobile phone. Excellent. You see, Professor, these machines are not only the engine of the globalised, capitalist world but they also depend on technologies that have been produced by Israeli academics in the Zionist entity. [...] 31331 48 49_Caterpillar rejects call to block sales to Israel13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:33:07 -0400427_us-ascii

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/565287.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 31380 52 48_Re: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:54:33 -0400550_windows-1255 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Baum" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 3:22 PM Subject: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott



> Anti-Semitic studies > Douglas Davis > > Pay attention, Professor. ... > Stop playing with your detached mouse, Professor, and concentrate. I’m > afraid you may not use the British Library because it has been > computerised > by Ex Libris, a Zionist company that was spawned by the odious Hebrew > University of Jerusalem. [...] 31433 188 48_Re: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:10:06 +0200509_windows-1255 Noam, for book cataloging, the British Library uses Aleph software, developed, of course by Ex Libris.



----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 2:54 AM Subject: Re: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott



----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Baum" To: Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 3:22 PM Subject: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott [...] 31622 94 48_Re: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 06:07:57 -0400380_windows-1255 Ok, I stand corrected. When I hear Ex Libris I think of the "SFX" linking software that Ex Libris licensed from Herbert. As a journal guy I don't think about books and cataloging...

Noam ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 2:10 AM Subject: Re: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott [...] 31717 154 48_Re: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 13:19:58 +0200485_windows-1255 You're a big man, Mr. Stopak, for a guy who used to work in a library. Have a good Shabbat.

Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: Re: From the Spectator - on the academic boycott



Ok, I stand corrected. When I hear Ex Libris I think of the "SFX" linking software that Ex Libris licensed from Herbert. As a journal guy I don't think about books and cataloging... [...] 31872 239 38_Don't shoot me, I'm only the librarian11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 06:52:00 -0400548_windows-1255 No such luck, I just write enabling software, though I have my eye on the Library of Congress.

I did visit the British Library Document Supply Centre in Boston Spa near York a couple of times though to help with some customization of our system. Very cool place where they respond to millions of document delivery requests annually. Surrounded by old WWII bunkers, and full of lots of pneumatic tubes and an interesting mix of very manual processes and high tech that somehow reminded me of Terry Gilliam's movie "Brazil". [...] 32112 43 53_Re: Caterpillar rejects call to block sales to Israel0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:06:13 EDT517_US-ASCII Saw it. Univ of Wi- MAdison TA's rejected a divestment resolution this week. Instead called on the univ to divest from ALL companies doing business w human rights violators. They refused to single out Israel.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 32156 50 53_Re: Caterpillar rejects call to block sales to Israel0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:53:40 +0000564_- Who does that leave for them to do business with? Andora?

-------------- Original message -------------- Saw it. Univ of Wi- MAdison TA's rejected a divestment resolution this week. Instead called on the univ to divest from ALL companies doing business w human rights violators. They refused to single out Israel.



The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 32207 93 8_Brothers12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:50:16 +0200459_us-ascii Haverot/im A couple of days ago I posted a translation of Ehud Manor's "I have no other country" and my daughter, Smadar, sent me another of his poems, "Yehuda, my younger brother." Yehuda, my younger brother. Can you hear? Do you know? The sun still rises every morning In a white light, And in the evening a breeze scatters Leaves in the garden. The first rain Came two days ago On Tuesday evening, You can see the sky In puddles on the road. [...] 32301 88 53_Re: Caterpillar rejects call to block sales to Israel0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:18:13 -0700717_us-ascii To say nothing of other universities :-(

Sharon









rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 04/15/2005 05:53 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh



To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: Caterpillar rejects call to block sales to Israel



Who does that leave for them to do business with? Andora?

-------------- Original message -------------- Saw it. Univ of Wi- MAdison TA's rejected a divestment resolution this week. Instead called on the univ to divest from ALL companies doing business w human rights violators. They refused to single out Israel. [...] 32390 40 23_Greetings from Portland14_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:45:31 -0700414_us-ascii Hey Chevrah,

Just a TGIF greeting to you today from rainy Portland, Oregon. Been working on some anti-Walmart stuff lately. We've got a neat thing going on - our own version of Moveon.org at www.onwardoregon.org

Listening to a lovely Round and Round (that's the Dead for those of you who missed that memo) on the headphones out here at HP in Vancouver, WA. Hold on, time to turn it up! [...] 32431 378 33_Fw: Hamas Admits to Honor Killing5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:21:02 -0700643_iso-8859-1

This is not a hate message.

Steve



Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 3:24 PM Subject: Fw: Hamas Admits to Honor Killing







Hamas has admitted that three to five of its gunmen were responsible for the murder and brutal desecration of the body of a 20-year Palestinian woman in an "honour killing" over "a mistaken 'suspicion of immoral behavior.'" The Gaza Strip woman, who was to be married this Friday, was shot to death in the front seat of her fiance's car by two carloads of masked Hamas members who belong to a vigilante "morality police" faction seeking to enforce the [...] 32810 141 26_Fw: Synagogues of Budapest5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:56:54 -0700670_iso-8859-1



Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 1:37 PM Subject: Fw: Synagogues of Budapest





----- Forwarded by Joyce Chernick/Hacienda on 04/15/2005 01:33 PM ----- "Marcie Polier" 04/15/2005 10:35 AM To "'Joyce Chernick'" cc Subject FW: Synagogues of Budapest













Really Beautiful...take a look.



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ponder310@aol.com [mailto:ponder310@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:27 AM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: Synagogues of Budapest [...] 32952 152 74_Fw: see Prysbyterian minister opposed to divestment campaign of his church5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 16 Apr 2005 09:57:53 -0700430_iso-8859-1



Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:27 PM Subject: see Prysbyterian minister opposed to divestment campaign of his church











Kahal Joseph Synagogue

Is proud to announce that the Reverend Dr. William Harter will be speaking at the Synagogue Tuesday April 19th at 7 P.M. 10505 Santa Monica Boulevard (around the Beverly Glen area) Westwood 310 474 0559 [...] 33105 94 27_Fw: Greetings from Portland5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:13:54 -0700528_iso-8859-1 > Albert > > Thank you for that whole piece on Cascadia Commons. I went to the site, > and was floored by the beauty of the operation. I will look forward to > visiting (if my politics don't get me barred!). > > Just a comment on your musings about the wall. Nothing profound, but your > "what if" ideas could have included "What if WA were treated by Portland > the same way Israel were treated by the Palestinians, would WA react as > the Israelis have ?" How many dead and maimed children of Portland would > [...] 33200 21 18_Portland for 5,00014_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:19:22 -0700439_iso-8859-1 Hey Steve, I hear ya. Had a thought about the wall, it could be useful if it were used to hold up solar panels....

Albert

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 33222 71 22_Re: Portland for 5,00013_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:09:17 -0400361_us-ascii Do you have enough sun to pay the cost of keeping those Washingtonians out? Could work in the Southwest on the wall Congress wants to build between the US and Mexico, though. Judy

Albert Kaufman wrote:

>Hey Steve, I hear ya. Had a thought about the wall, it could be useful if >it were used to hold up solar panels.... > >Albert > > [...] 33294 303 43_Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:49:40 -0400498_iso-8859-1







Arik got us into this, And now he'll get us out.

David Twersky





He calls it disengagement,

Not a setback or a rout:

Arik got us into this

And now he'll get us out.





He checks his forces and his foes'

Who murmur, cry, and pout:

That Arik got us into this

And now is getting us out.





Getting rid of settlements is difficult, they shout, [...] 33598 53 47_Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:03:45 EDT426_US-ASCII Nice

Did you set this to music?





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 33652 363 47_Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme13_Yuval Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:32:11 -0400599_iso-8859-1 Portland for 5,000David,

I wish you were right. But remember also, that all this hoopla, this feast or famine as you say, is only to maybe get us out of Gaza. Only the outcome of this very partial first phase of withdrawal will tell us if there is any hope or chance to see the beginnings of some type of overall settlement that can withstand the combined, unrelenting onslaught of Bibi, Sharansky, and the mitnachalim over time. ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: David Twersky To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 6:49 PM Subject: Just back from [...] 34016 124 47_Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:40:36 -0400357_iso-8859-1 Portland for 5,000Yuval,

I wish it were only that simple. Might be worth mentioning the combined assault of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Hezbollah too, no? Lots of obstacles for all corners of the spectrum. Let us hope that the first steps succeed and are followed by others to reach a just and lasting peace. Bimhera, byomeinu, bikarov. [...] 34141 328 47_Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:56:39 -0400489_us-ascii Hi David, Great poem! I reminds me of the labor ballads we sang at machaneh. May I share it, with attribution, with my friends on Shomernet and on my synagogue listserve? Hag samayach- Judy Gelman



David Twersky wrote:

> ** > > * * > > *Arik got us into this, And now he'll get us out.* > > David Twersky > > > > He calls it disengagement, > > Not a setback or a rout: > > Arik got us into this > > And now he'll get us out. > > > > He checks his forces [...] 34470 198 47_Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:13:37 -0700500_us-ascii TwerskY--very cool- can we have permission ot print it in our paper? ( The Jewish News)--sue(susie) freedliberman --- Judith Gelman wrote: > Hi David, > Great poem! I reminds me of the labor ballads we > sang at machaneh. > May I share it, with attribution, with my friends on > Shomernet and on my > synagogue listserve? > Hag samayach- > Judy Gelman > > > David Twersky wrote: > > > ** > > > > * * > > > > *Arik got us into this, And now he'll get us out.* > > > > [...] 34669 60 22_Re: Portland for 5,00012_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:16:19 -0700549_us-ascii Back when I was on workshop in 61, Israel was full of solar panels...I never understood why the US didn't suck this up for energy.....guess the oil guys wanted to keep them out..It certainly is hot enough in Arizona, CA, FL , TX, etc......ssssss --- Judith Gelman wrote: > Do you have enough sun to pay the cost of keeping > those Washingtonians > out? Could work in the Southwest on the wall > Congress wants to build > between the US and Mexico, though. > Judy > > Albert Kaufman wrote: > > >Hey Steve, I hear ya. [...] 34730 29 47_Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:49:11 -0400607_iso-8859-1 share as you like. nice to hearfrom you. david

________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh on behalf of Judith Gelman Sent: Sun 4/17/2005 9:56 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme







------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 34760 220 47_Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:49:47 -0400663_iso-8859-1 sure, how are you doing?

________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh on behalf of Sue Liberman Sent: Mon 4/18/2005 12:13 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Just back from Israel, my comments in rhyme





TwerskY--very cool- can we have permission ot print it in our paper? ( The Jewish News)--sue(susie) freedliberman --- Judith Gelman wrote: > Hi David, > Great poem! I reminds me of the labor ballads we > sang at machaneh. > May I share it, with attribution, with my friends on > Shomernet and on my > synagogue listserve? > Hag samayach- > Judy Gelman > [...] 34981 33 31_Re: Fw: Greetings from Portland11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:29:15 -0500537_us-ascii >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Kaufman" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:45 AM >>Subject: Greetings from Portland >> >>>Hey Chevrah, >>>

[snip]

>>>Not sure what the discussion about the wall in the West Bank has been on this list, I'm sure it's stirred some debate. It's one of the most revolting things I can think of. Even my very left-wing kibbutznikim, ex-habo relatives in Israel are for it. I suppose it cuts down on the suicide bombings. [...] 35015 198 23_Of interest, non-Jewish5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:10:24 -0700853_iso-8859-1



Great article, with references to markets and places in NY. Nothing particularly Jewish here; I just thought some of you would enjoy reading it.

Steve









http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/10/dining/10salmon.html?hp



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





--------------------------------------------------------------------------

April 10, 2005 Stores Say Wild Salmon, but Tests Say Farm Bred



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 35214 4310 68_Re: =?windows-1255?Q?=E1=E9=EF_=EB=F0=F8=FA_=EC=E1=E9=FA_=F9=E0=EF?=13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:29:56 -0400817_windows-1255 Great stuff





________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:35 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: בין כנרת לבית שאן









This should be entertaining to those of you that read Hewrew- or like pictures.





Steve









Subject: בין כנרת לבית שאן





בין כנרת לבית שאן





אנחנו שמחים להזמין אתכם לצאת לטיול מסוג שונה: טיול בזמן. מדי שבוע נפרסם כאן פיסות היסטוריה מתוך אחד האוספים שתועדו והונצחו במעבדת "ביתמונה", הצצה נדירה אל עברה של ארץ ישראל. מדור חדש - תמונות ישנות, והפעם: אוסף התמונות של אליהו כהן ז"ל, ממייסדי קיבוץ אשדות יעקב [...] 39525 145 27_Re: Greetings from Portland0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:30:34 -0400727_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: David Ferri To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:29:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Fw: Greetings from Portland



>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert Kaufman" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:45 AM >>Subject: Greetings from Portland >> >>>Hey Chevrah, >>>

[snip]

>>>Not sure what the discussion about the wall in the West Bank has been on this list, I'm sure it's stirred some debate. It's one of the most revolting things I can think of. Even my very left-wing kibbutznikim, ex-habo relatives in Israel are for it. I suppose it cuts down on the [...] 39671 1694 27_Re: Greetings from Portland13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 09:54:12 -0400533_US-ASCII I believe the whole "snaking through the west bank' is an overblown and ill informed critique. See the ny times piece below (from today. There is only 8 percent of the west bank on the Israeli western side of the fence. With Clinton (the hero of the doves) it was five percent. So what would be so bad about a final border that had so few Palestinians on the Israeli side but acknowledged that the Palestinians have no particular "right" to the 1967 "borders," which were mere armistice lines from the 1949 cease fire. [...] 41366 251 21_Re: "Awful and supid"12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 07:33:03 -0700553_us-ascii What is "awful and stupid" is the loss of innocent lives by maniacs. If the wall saves one life, it is worth it. Believe me, I know that there are plenty of Israelis keeping watch over the progress of the wall. Sari Finklestein picketed when it was going to go through the middle of the village her contractor came from- whom she had known for 20 years. The group picketed and picketed, and in the end, the plans were altered to avoid inhumane results. I suppose it depends on what one believes to be "awful and stupid"- since those words [...] 41618 565 21_Re: "Awful and supid"0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:04:12 -0400344_us-ascii You did not read what I wrote Sue. The route is awful and stupid not the wall The route is snaking all over the West Bank. I looked at that map it makes me angry These settlements are sucking the life blood out of Israel. To include Kedumim inside the wall is awful and stupid. Just go look at that map and tell me otherwise Sue. [...] 42184 2341 21_Re: "Awful and supid"13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:27:07 -0400460_US-ASCII Read the times. It is not snaking all through the west bank.

Your information is out of date.

________________________________

From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:04 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: "Awful and supid"





You did not read what I wrote Sue. The route is awful and stupid not the wall [...] 44526 581 21_Re: "Awful and supid"0_17_smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:51:05 -0400638_us-ascii



-----Original Message----- From: David Twersky To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:27:07 -0400 Subject: Re: "Awful and supid"



Read the times. It is not snaking all through the west bank. Your information is out of date.







> I believe the whole "snaking through the west bank' > is an overblown and > ill informed critique. See the ny times piece below > (from today. There > is only 8 percent of the west bank on the Israeli > western side of the > fence. With Clinton (the hero of the doves) it was > five percent. So what [...] 45108 5671 21_Re: "Awful and supid"13_David Twersky23_dtwersky@AJCONGRESS.ORG31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:59:45 -0400352_US-ASCII THE FENCE IS NOT IMMUTABLE. IT IS NOT TORAH MI'SINAI. (ACTUALLY, I DON'T EVEN THINK TORAH MI'SINAI IS TORAH MI'SINAI). IT IS A TEMPORRARY BARRIER TO SUICIDE BOMBERS ETC WHICH WILL FORM A DE FACTO NEW BORDER BETWEEN Israel and the Palestinian state to be - until such time as negotiations actually produce a formal treaty. At which point, [...] 50780 2388 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:45:00 +0200386_ISO-8859-1 David - can I give you a little hint? Stop trying to make sense with your opinions about the relative right or wrong of the fence. No matter what you say, someone on Habonet will jump all over you, even if you propose that the fence be made out of solid ice cream..... so give up trying to be right (or left), kick off yer shoes and watch the Yankees get creamed on TV. [...] 53169 76 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:00:43 -0500431_us-ascii At 23:45 +0200 4/19/05, carmidave wrote: >David - can I give you a little hint? Stop trying to make sense >with your opinions about the relative right or wrong of the fence. >No matter what you say, someone on Habonet will jump all over you, >even if you propose that the fence be made out of solid ice >cream..... so give up trying to be right (or left), kick off yer >shoes and watch the Yankees get creamed on TV. [...] 53246 70 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:15:03 +0000301_- Does the fence save Israeli lives? If it prevents a peace treaty, works to further isolate Israel in the world or in any way prolongs and increases anomosity could it not actually cost Israeli lives? Besides, might it not slow down the effort to take all of Israeli's garbage to the West Bank? [...] 53317 159 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:41:44 -0500596_us-ascii I'll take the certainty of saving Israeli lives today over the wishful thinking that not having it might save lives in the future based on the hopes of a peace plan that may or may not be reached.

Regards, David

At 23:15 +0000 4/19/05, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: >Does the fence save Israeli lives? If it prevents a peace treaty, >works to further isolate Israel in the world or in any way prolongs >and increases anomosity could it not actually cost Israeli lives? >Besides, might it not slow down the effort to take all of Israeli's >garbage to the West Bank? > [...] 53477 95 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:43:01 EDT548_US-ASCII David

I have now read the article in the New York Times to which you refer, and the Times presents a much more hopeful view of the separation fence then the article in the Economist. I found it in large measure convincing. The argued that with the fence in fact Sharon was acknowledging in advance what he was willing to concede on the West Bank and this was not in considerable. I do find this convincing. Nevertheless, even on the New York Times map, you can see the huge bulge into the West Bank at Ariel and Kedumin. It is [...] 53573 80 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:44:27 EDT495_US-ASCII

In a message dated 4/19/2005 5:06:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM writes:





A different David here. I initially responded to Albert's post because I was floored (even though I shouldn't be) that someone who is against the fence goes as far as to acknowledge that it saves Israeli lives but . . . he's still against it. It goes to prove my mother's old saying that sometimes a person can be so open minded his brain falls out. [...] 53654 122 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:52:50 +0000335_- Sounds sort of analogous to Chamberlain's thinking at Munich in 1938.

-------------- Original message --------------

I'll take the certainty of saving Israeli lives today over the wishful thinking that not having it might save lives in the future based on the hopes of a peace plan that may or may not be reached. [...] 53777 134 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:11:18 -0400546_us-ascii 1)Don't you mean 3500 units? 2) Kedumim is a very radical settler community from what I understand and so I think this is a way of buying them off. Note that this section of the fence is "on hold" Judy



Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> David > > I have now read the article in the New York Times to which you refer, > and the Times presents a much more hopeful view of the > separation fence then the article in the Economist. I found it in > large measure convincing. The argued that with the fence in fact > Sharon [...] 53912 246 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:12:23 -0500626_us-ascii Chamberlain cost millions of lives because he fooled himself into trusting a liar. We either learn from history or are condemned to repeat it. The fence is a good example of the lessons learned.

David Ferri

At 0:52 +0000 4/20/05, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: >Sounds sort of analogous to Chamberlain's thinking at Munich in 1938. > > >-------------- Original message -------------- > >I'll take the certainty of saving Israeli lives today over the >wishful thinking that not having it might save lives in the future >based on the hopes of a peace plan that may or may not be reached. > >Regards, [...] 54159 113 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM31_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:17:29 -0500568_us-ascii At 20:43 -0400 4/19/05, Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote: >David > >I have now read the article in the New York Times to which you >refer, and the Times presents a much more hopeful view of the >separation fence then the article in the Economist. I found it in >large measure convincing. The argued that with the fence in fact >Sharon was acknowledging in advance what he was willing to concede >on the West Bank and this was not in considerable. I do find this >convincing. Nevertheless, even on the New York Times map, you can >see the huge bulge into the West [...] 54273 86 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:41:17 EDT382_US-ASCII In a message dated 4/19/2005 9:35:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, gelman@EROLS.COM writes:

1)Don't you mean 3500 units?

I think the article said 35 units I will re read it



2) Kedumim is a very radical settler community from what I understand and so I think this is a way of buying them off. Note that this section of the fence is "on hold" [...] 54360 94 32_Re: "Awful and supid"For Twersky0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:55:35 EDT538_US-ASCII

In a message dated 4/19/2005 9:45:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM writes:





Typical European reaction. Take the incredibly courageous move at considerable political and personal risk of grabbing the bull by the horns to save Israeli lives and zero in on one aspect that they find objectionable and attempt to dismiss the whole venture on that basis. The Europeans can take the bulge and shove it. Fortunately, Sharon and Bush have told them pretty much that for 4 years now. 54455 35 24_Looking for Danny Kramer12_brian cooper25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET31_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:10:08 -0400295_ISO-8859-1 Hi All,

If Danny is on the list, please contact me, or if anyone knows how to contact him please let me know or tell him to contact me.

I received the following request from a former very close friend of his, who is planning a trip to the states soon, from Israel: [...] 54491 110 28_Re: Looking for Danny Kramer0_15_emabear@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:33:49 -0400469_us-ascii If nothing else, his Mom and Dad, Dr Milton and Fradie Kramer, live in New York. Fradie is on the (formerly) LZM board.

-----Original Message----- From: brian cooper To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:10:08 -0400 Subject: Looking for Danny Kramer



Hi All,

If Danny is on the list, please contact me, or if anyone knows how to contact him please let me know or tell him to contact me. [...] 54602 440 34_Fw: Jihad comes to Small Town, USA5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:11:49 -0700537_UTF-8

This article would be of interest to most of the 'net, I think. The usual people should perhaps skip it. Once again, I'd like to state my opinion that for the Moslem wave of immigration to join well with the previous waves that have already come here, they could use a whole lot of good people from within and without to decry and help overcome some potentially-destructive elements of the old-country value systems. What may have worked in Saudi Arabia or Syria may not serve well here. I hope they (and we) succeed. [...] 55043 43 28_Re: Looking for Danny Kramer0_13_Lauir@AOL.COM29_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 14:28:40 EDT481_US-ASCII I believe Danny lives in Westchester Ci=ounty and sends his kids to Galil. They should have his contact info.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 55087 179 28_Re: Looking for Danny Kramer0_14_ohanka@AOL.COM31_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:27:26 -0400392_us-ascii I have all of the Kramer info in my registration info on my computer at home. I'll send it up as soon as I get home this evening. They do send their kids to Galil. They do live in NY - I believe its Scarsdale. Hank Albert

-----Original Message----- From: emabear@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:33:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Looking for Danny Kramer [...] 55267 222 38_Re: Fw: Jihad comes to Small Town, USA0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:02:50 +0000359_- The internet is a wonderful thing. It allows the easy and quick disemination of information that even twenty years ago was absolutely impossible, not to mention easy access of pornography. But we must be careful, because unlike any decent newspaper or magazine, the information we find on the "net" is not necessarily true, or even close to the truth. [...] 55490 96 11_Rasta Rabbi0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:17:20 +0000586_- Hasidic Reggae Star Not Just a Novelty By NEKESA MUMBI MOODY, AP Music Writer Tue Apr 19, 7:45 PM

Orthodox Jewish reggae star Matisyahu is photographed in the ... NEW YORK - In the insular, Orthodox Jewish neighborhood of Crown Heights in Brooklyn, members of the Hasidic religious group rarely mingle with outsiders. So it's understandable that a young Hasidic woman grows alarmed when she happens by an unusual scene - a solemn Hasidic man being photographed by a secular group of people. But the woman breaks out into a smile when she learns the name of the man before [...] 55587 19 15_Re: Rasta Rabbi16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 03:35:13 -0400461_us-ascii All well and good, but more importantly, can one still regard Chabad-Lubavitch as Jewish?

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 55607 39 15_Re: Rasta Rabbi11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 05:44:07 -0400647_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elihu D. Davison" To: Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:35 AM Subject: Re: Rasta Rabbi



> All well and good, but more importantly, can one still regard > Chabad-Lubavitch as Jewish?

I'll never forget the day the tefillin tank visited Tel Ari. All Things Considered, April 20, 2005 · In New York City, the Lubavitchers hold their annual mitzvah tank parade through Brooklyn and Manhattan. There are no floats, just 55 RVs plastered with the face of Rebbe Menachem Schneerson, the missionary Hassidic group's spiritual leader. [...] 55647 64 44_The funniest thing I've ever seen on the web13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:31:27 +0200495_windows-1255 Warning! Do not have any food or drink in your mouth while watching this film:

http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 55712 158 19_Mitzvah Tank Parade13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:22:35 -0400535_ISO-8859-1 Thank you, thank you, thank you! I heard this story yesterday driving the Beltway and laughed very hard. I called my parents, husband , aunt and uncle and just told them to listen at 10 of the next hour but did not reveal the topic. I didn't think of looking it up of the web to share. Whether you consider them "Jewish" or not, they certainly are peculiarly inventive and quite colorful, despite the lack of external color and one of the more sociologically interesting branches off the Jewish tree in modern times. . [...] 55871 253 28_Re: Looking for Danny Kramer0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:17:30 -0400471_us-ascii it's been taken care of offline.

Chag sameach,

Ken

-----Original Message----- From: ohanka@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:27:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Looking for Danny Kramer



I have all of the Kramer info in my registration info on my computer at home. I'll send it up as soon as I get home this evening. They do send their kids to Galil. They do live in NY - I believe its Scarsdale. Hank Albert [...] 56125 24 39_Danny Kramer found - Thanks to everyone0_25_briancooper@OPTONLINE.NET31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:21:51 -0400541_us-ascii The connection has been made bewteen Danny and Sarah who had been looking for his info.

Thanks to everyone who responded. Your help was terrific and I'm sure, well appreciated. Habonet at its best.

Chag Same'ach, brian

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 56150 60 48_Re: The funniest thing I've ever seen on the web9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:29:01 +0200383_windows-1255 Jon - I second your warning. had to run it three times to catch theparts I missed while laughing! Funny, but when I had lunch with Neil Armstrong in Sept, '72, he didn't say anything about the secret program....

Hag Same'ah to all Dave ______________________________________________________ "Brain cells come and brain cells go, but fat cells live forever." [...] 56211 59 48_Re: The funniest thing I've ever seen on the web0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:42:58 +0000603_- You weren't kidding Jon. What a hoot. Nothing quite so funny as Jim Crow and oppression. Hold on a second...its getting cold in here, gotta throw another Jew on the fire.

-------------- Original message --------------

Warning! Do not have any food or drink in your mouth while watching this film:

http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/





The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 56271 54 19_Pesach for Gorillas13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:18:29 -0400638_us-ascii What a country! Hag samayach- Judy http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1107&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050420%2F1110161356.htm&sc=1107

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 56326 71 19_Therapy appointment16_Beverly Schwartz19_beverly@HEVANET.COM31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 10:00:38 -0700603_iso-8859-1 Hi Kelle,

I am glad to hear from you. If you are ready to schedule an appointment, then please call me at 503.227.5692. If you get my voice mail, then please leave your telephone number and the best time to reach you.

I look forward to speaking with you.

Beverly Schwartz, LCSW

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 56398 53 23_Re: Pesach for Gorillas0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:03:09 +0000622_- For some reason this article reminds me of the line from Cabaret when the MC (Joel Grey) says, "If you could see her through my eyes, she doesn't look Jewish at all."

-------------- Original message -------------- What a country! Hag samayach- Judy http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1107&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050420%2F1110161356.htm&sc=1107





The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. To unsubscribe email HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 56452 62 0_16_Beverly Schwartz19_beverly@HEVANET.COM31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:49:44 -0700532_iso-8859-1 Habonetters,

I unknowingly made a critical mistake in sending a very sensitive, confidential email that got mixed in to Habonet. I apologize and respectfully ask that you delete that email asap. Thank you.

Beverly

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 56515 62 48_Re: The funniest thing I've ever seen on the web12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 19:13:45 -0400660_us-ascii Sick! Sick! Sick!

But I agree with your assessment, Jon. One of the funniest things I've seen in a very long time. Thanks for passing it along!

Chag sameach,

David



>Warning! Do not have any food or drink in your mouth while watching this film: > >http://www.negrospaceprogram.com/

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 56578 74 48_Re: The funniest thing I've ever seen on the web11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:00:07 -0400644_iso-8859-1 I didn't find it very funny, even when putting on my sick hat.

This on the other hand is the funniest thing I recall finding on the web, though perhaps you have to be a computer nerd to fully appreciate it. Warning, mild profanity

http://www.deadtroll.com/index2.html?/video/ossuckscable.html~content

Enjoy

Noam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 56653 18 18_Jib-Jab's Passover16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:04:37 -0400411_us-ascii http://www.jibjab.com/matzah/matzah.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 56672 416 27_Re: Greetings from Portland12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:22:04 -0700598_iso-8859-1 You sure have changed your tune, David. I recall watching you bravely challenge a bunch of Israeli student leaders back in 1970 for their denying that East Jerusalem was "occupied," at a time when precious few of us questioned the Golda Meir- to-Herut consensus. So the 1967 "borders" aren't any such thing, you now say, despite the fact that 99 percent of the world considers them the only logical basis for two states. It follows, then either that unilateral annexation is OK, which you so vehemently rejected back then, or that we need to look for something with more legitimacy [...] 57089 577 84_Fw: [GushShalom] ACTION ALERT: West Bank villagers threatened withimminent expulsion12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:39:01 -0700389_windows-1255 Apropos the misleading news that the wall on the west side is taking "only" 8 percent: Here's an example of what's happening on the east side of the West Bank. Note the mention of the publication of the map in Yediot Aharonot. And I think you can find various maps showing the real impact of the wall at the Gush Shalom web site (it wouldn't open for me just now). David [...] 57667 480 32_The battle for the `fingernails'12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:46:17 -0700772_iso-8859-1 Ha'aretz editorial. Makes a lot more sense than the New York Times. And ought to know, too.





http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/567092.html









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Last update - 03:36 20/04/2005

The battle for the `fingernails'

While all the attention is focused on the highly publicized evacuation of the settlers from Gush Katif, the real battle for Israel's borders is taking place in the West Bank. It could be years before the eastern border with the Palestinians is finally settled, but meanwhile, the bulldozers and builders are at work - as has [...] 58148 994 33_Fw: Random Thots Passover Special5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 23 Apr 2005 06:54:21 -0700525_iso-8859-1

Hag Sameah!

Steve



Subject: Fw: Random Thots Passover Special





MAYBE YOU CAN SING THIS TONIGHT !!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 59143 41 12_Chag Sameach12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:58:20 -0700559_us-ascii Chag Sameach to all on Habonet-- L'Shanah Ha'ba'ah B'yerushalayim!--sue --- "Elihu D. Davison" wrote: > http://www.jibjab.com/matzah/matzah.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG > [...] 59185 46 21_The Habonim Folk Trio0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:23:09 +0000638_- Not sure if anyone will be interested but here are two links to recordings made by 3 Habonim Alum (the forth is Habo-related by marrage):

http://www.archive.org/audio/audio-details-db.php?collection=opensource_audio&collectionid=ericjuliemattrichardHouseofTheRisingSunPrettyPeggyO

http://www.folktunes.org/wiki/Habonim_Folk_Trio

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 59232 38 25_Re: The Habonim Folk Trio0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Sun, 24 Apr 2005 00:57:43 EDT380_US-ASCII



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 59271 42 25_Re: The Habonim Folk Trio0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Sun, 24 Apr 2005 00:58:51 EDT403_US-ASCII Who are these folks?

ACC

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 59314 121 84_Re: [GushShalom] ACTION ALERT: West Bank villagers threatened withimminent expulsion11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 24 Apr 2005 13:28:12 -0400664_windows-1255 Hi David,

I'm puzzled by this bit from the piece you forwarded:

...

GUSH SHALOM - pob 3322, Tel-Aviv 61033 www.gush-shalom.org

West Bank villagers threatened with imminent expulsion

International action alert ... This time around, Asher came with expulsion orders for people. Three Aqaba families - twenty seven adults and children in all - were handed orders stating: "You are staying illegally in a closed zone, proclaimed according to article 70 of the Judea and Samaria security ordinance 378 of 1970. You are hereby ordered to vacate said closed zone within 72 hours. Failure to heed this order may result [...] 59436 118 10_Ami Ayalon11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:45:33 -0400568_iso-8859-1

Hi,

I was hoping to read some reactions to Ami Ayalon's tour. The event in the DC area was well attended and interesting (IMO).

I thought he made a number of very good points, though I confess I am baffled by his approach to the holy places in Jerusalem.

The key point from my perspective is that until you agree on the destination, there is no way to find a path to get you there. Most of the peace efforts to date fail to garner sufficient support because nobody has faith that the end result will fall within the bounds [...] 59555 63 14_Re: Ami Ayalon13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:11:45 -0400411_us-ascii Because I got to drive Ami Ayalon somewhere the next day, I had occasion to ask him about the Holy Basin.. As I now understand it, "no sovereignty" doesn't mean that no one collects the garbage or that there are no rules. What it means is that the Holy Basin does not officially belong to any country. I think that other examples of places with no sovereignty include the High Seas and Antarctica [...] 59619 76 14_Re: Ami Ayalon0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM29_Sun, 24 Apr 2005 19:07:33 EDT589_US-ASCII In a message dated 4/24/2005 11:46:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, nstopak2@COMCAST.NET writes: Another point I've heard echoed from a number of attendees was the idea that we don't need to love the Palestinians and they don't need to love us. We just have to agree to live side by side without open hostility. I had the occasion to hear Ami a few times during his tour and hear him answer questions by people that I would describe as "Jewish political opponents." They asked, in so many words, what the Palestinians have done "to deserve" the compromises that he proposed. Ami [...] 59696 97 14_Re: Ami Ayalon0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 24 Apr 2005 20:05:58 EDT467_US-ASCII

In a message dated 4/24/2005 7:08:32 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, KBob24@AOL.COM writes:

They asked, in so many words, what the Palestinians have done "to deserve" the compromises that he proposed. Ami explained, at times forcefully, that his proposal was not based on giving out "prizes for bad behavior" to the Palestinians but rather because we could create a situation of peace and security for the Jews in a democratic, Jewish state. [...] 59794 25 10_Sedah Club14_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:12:54 -0700750_iso-8859-1 Chag Sameach, ya'all! Albert

enjoy Sedah Club: http://www.shabot6000.com/sedaclub/ 60-second seder: http://www.jibjab.com/matzah/matzah.htm In da Shul: http://www.bandzoogle.com/users/50shekelgmailcom/components/musicplayer-stan dalone.cfm?siteid=50shekelgmailcom&playList=%27media/musicplayer/playlist.xm l%27&autoplay=false&startingTrack=0&startVolume=100&startTime=0

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 59820 1597 20_Fw: Operation Joshua14_The Greenwalds21_greenwfam@CHARTER.NET31_Tue, 26 Apr 2005 08:06:50 -0700537_iso-8859-1 Thought you might find this interesting ... Julia ----- Original Message ----- From: Loumur70@aol.com To: bur6fra3@lworld.net ; Mmbmeb@aol.com ; greenwfam@charter.net ; Aryeh1@aol.com ; elachter@hotmail.com ; ramila@netvision.net.il ; rdmains@comcast.net ; renabern@comcast.net ; subjoy@comcast.net ; savet001@tc.umn.edu ; stephen@minndakjcrc.org ; tomtu@pacbell.net Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:25 AM Subject: Fwd: Operation Joshua



Interesting. What do you think? Do you know these people? Lou Lachter [...] 61418 203 54_Fw: Iran Freedom Foundation Ad Rejected by TV Stations5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:19:32 -0700446_iso-8859-1

I am sending this along ONLY to help us keep pace with the influence of fear in shaping our daily lives. I doubt that this is the worst of it or the last of it.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Iran Freedom Foundation Ad Rejected by TV Stations





Click on links for full article.



April 26, 2005 'Atomic Iran' TV ad rejected: Some stations fear it might inflame Muslims From WND [...] 61622 959 80_Fw: American Jewish COngress Press Release re: AUT boycott of Israeli Professors5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:21:28 -0700472_Big5

Please give this a look, action, and pass along.

Steve



Subject: Fw: American Jewish COngress Press Release re: AUT boycott of Israeli Professors









American Jewish Congress Divestment Alert





This message is part of the AJCongress Fight Divestment project to coordinate efforts opposing Israel boycott and divestment campaigns and to strengthen support of Israel¡¦s economy. [...] 62582 77 34_Fw: The Petition to Save Jerusalem5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:36:05 -0700663_Windows-1252

Sometimes petitions do make a difference.

Steve



Subject: The Petition to Save Jerusalem





We believe that Jerusalem, under the sovereignty of the State of Israel, is as free and open a city as any in the world...

Read the entire petition, and sign it online at: http://www.onejerusalem.org/sign.asp

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 62660 67 58_Re: Fw: Iran Freedom Foundation Ad Rejected by TV Stations0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 27 Apr 2005 21:14:44 +0000331_- I am sending this along ONLY to help us keep pace with the influence of fear in shaping our daily lives. I doubt that this is the worst of it or the last of it.

Steve

Could Steve, or someone else who can translate explain the above to me?

Subject: Fw: Iran Freedom Foundation Ad Rejected by TV Stations [...] 62728 44 19_Weingart Foundation0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 28 Apr 2005 08:08:03 -0700517_us-ascii Hi Habonetters- Anybody out there have connections to the Weingart Foundation? If you do, please e-mail me off-line.

Thannks, Sharon Gates

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 62773 693 33_Emailing: uneasy-relationship.htm3_leo18_leodie@ISDN.NET.IL31_Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:46:25 +03001009_us-ascii

I think this book will be of interest to readers of HABONET

Prof. L. Diesendruck 7 Petach Tikva Rd. Netanya, Israel 42461 Tel: 09-860 1878 e-mail: leodie@isdn.net.il _____





Browse New Titles

Spring 2005 Catalog

Fall 2004 Catalog Catalog Archive

Browse All Books

by Author [...] 63467 87 58_Re: Fw: Iran Freedom Foundation Ad Rejected by TV Stations0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 29 Apr 2005 23:11:46 EDT377_US-ASCII

In a message dated 4/27/2005 5:15:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:

I am sending this along ONLY to help us keep pace with the influence of fear in shaping our daily lives. I doubt that this is the worst of it or the last of it.

Steve

Could Steve, or someone else who can translate explain the above to me? [...] 63555 122 58_Re: Fw: Iran Freedom Foundation Ad Rejected by TV Stations11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 30 Apr 2005 11:11:01 -0400478_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 11:11 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Iran Freedom Foundation Ad Rejected by TV Stations



In a message dated 4/27/2005 5:15:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes: I am sending this along ONLY to help us keep pace with the influence of fear in shaping our daily lives. I doubt that this is the worst of it or the last of it. [...] 63678 243 46_Fw: How many Jews would there have been if...?13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:54:07 +0200615_windows-1255 Printamerican jewry going fiifin?



w w w . h a a r e t z . c o m



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Last update - 12:02 30/04/2005 Study traces worldwide Jewish population from Exodus to modern age By Amiram Barkat, Haaretz Correspondent

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon likes to quote a theory developed by his close friend, attorney Dov Weissglas, that had the Jews not been expelled by the Romans and suffered nearly 2,000 years of persecution, there would be between 500-800 million Jews living in the world today. [...] 63922 66 13_Ameinu Update0_14_kbob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 30 Apr 2005 22:18:43 -0400547_us-ascii Hi folks:

For those of you who have not subscribed to the Ameinu e-newsletter, I would urge you to take a look at the Ameinu website. There is a lot of interesting new content that covers a wide range of Labor Zionist content. Here a few examples:

--Amnon Hadari's obituary in memory of Ehud Manor. --A transcript of Ami Ayalon's presentation while touring the U.S. --Rabbi Einat Ramon, the first ordained Israeli born woman, writes about a seder led by A.D. Gordon. --A call to action in support of Middle East peace. [...]