1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet February 2005 2 32 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_15_RONOREN@AOL.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 01:56:36 -0500407_iso-8859-1 <>

Agreed, Jessica, me too! Please keep up the music submissions. The occasional music chat is one of the reasons why this Politics-challenged Habo-alum can bear this list! The Piyut site sounds great. I wish I were in Jeru to check out the group. [...] 35 74 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:26:43 +0000575_- I remember that when I got off the bus in July 1970 for my first day at Mosh the song "Now That The Buffalos Gone," by Buffy Saint-Marie was being played on the Romkal. Can anyone else remember the first song they heard at Habonim Camp?

-------------- Original message --------------

> <> < Perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree, but for me Habonim > < was the major sharing music forum of my childhood...>> > > Agreed, Jessica, me too! Please keep up the music submissions. The occasional > music chat is one of the reasons why this Politics-challenged [...] 110 744 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 03:34:53 EST352_US-ASCII

memory not that good...however speaking of Buffy, I had a chance to meet her last yr. at a SEVA Benf. in Berkeley (also took her out for dim sum the next day) and got to tell her that I always credited her as having written 'the soundtrack to my adolescent love life' (circa mb ''65.)...she liked that! have attached pic of same. [...] 855 55 22_I am not an antisemite8_stangold21_stangold@INTER.NET.IL30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:30:53 +0200492_iso-8859-1 I have lived in Israel for almost 30 years. My 3 sons serveds in the army. yet there have been many times when I was anti Israel for it;s actions DOES that make me an antisemite ???

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 911 211 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:19:49 +0200610_windows-1255 I distinctly remember "The Banks Are Made of Marble" think it was Phil Ochs-but not sure-haven't heard it since:( anyone have it downloaded somewhere?Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:26 AM Subject: Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site



I remember that when I got off the bus in July 1970 for my first day at Mosh the song "Now That The Buffalos Gone," by Buffy Saint-Marie was being played on the Romkal. Can anyone else remember the first song they heard at Habonim Camp? [...] 1123 192 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 07:30:13 -0500546_ISO-8859-15 I;m not sure, but I do know it was in Hebrew. I remember the first time I heard an English song on the Romkol but not the year. I do know it wasn't in 1965 or 1966 or 1967! Warmly, Judy

rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> I remember that when I got off the bus in July 1970 for my first day > at Mosh the song "Now That The Buffalos Gone," by Buffy Saint-Marie > was being played on the Romkal. Can anyone else remember the first > song they heard at Habonim Camp? > > > -------------- Original message -------------- [...] 1316 217 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:07:07 -0500520_iso-8859-1 Probably "oh yeah Mosh! Oh yeah Mosh! You look so good to me! Ho ho ho ho!", but if you mean recorded music, it might have been Arlo's "Ring Around the Rosie Rag" or Dylan's "Rainy Day Women #12 & 35" as I remember hearing them alot my first year or two before American Beauty and Workingman's Dead started to dominate. ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:26 AM Subject: Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site [...] 1534 161 15_Fw: wearing red9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 16:21:22 +0200627_windows-1255 Subject: wearing red











> > From: > > Date: 2005/02/01 â PM 04:00:52 GMT+05:30 > > To: bgu-womhealth@lists.bgu.ac.il > > Subject: [Bgu-womhealth] wearing red > > > > > > > > > Regarding the edict of the Beersheva Rabbi, that women are forbidden to wear red because it is the color of prostitute's clothing, we call upon women to wear red tomorrow, Wed., 02/02/05 There are demonstrations in TelAviv, Jerusalem, and Haifa. > > > > > > Sheila S. Warshawsky > > > Medical School for International Health > > > Faculty of Health Sciences > > [...] 1696 20 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:07:59 -0500372_iso-8859-1 Noam, you reminded me of a very vivid Ramkol memory from MB at Tel Ari,1972. I was very often the first person up and around in the morning. One day "Uncle John's Band" was blasting out and I see our 60+ year old caretaker, I can't conjure up his name right now but I can see him clearly doing a little dance as he is walking up the hill. Catchy tune, eh? [...] 1717 57 11_JLM Kumsitz0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:21:11 EST546_US-ASCII I would like to know the date, time, etc. of the Jerusalem kumsitz mentioned awhile back. I will be there on that weekend and would like to try and attend. Can I bring my college age granddaughter with? Who do I r.s.v.p. to?

Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 1775 118 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:40:37 +0000491_- I am pretty sure that Phil Ochs never recorded that song, more likely Pete Seeger.

-------------- Original message --------------

I distinctly remember "The Banks Are Made of Marble" think it was Phil Ochs-but not sure-haven't heard it since:( anyone have it downloaded somewhere?Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:26 AM Subject: Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site [...] 1894 105 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:01:13 -0800436_us-ascii That's funny, Ken. I always remember him doing his unique version of Sugar Magnolia. Maybe by '73 he'd learned more songs. Was his name Norbert? I remember it was something I thought was funny and quaint.

Sharon Gates









KBob24@AOL.COM Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 02/01/2005 07:07 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...] 2000 49 33_Re: Calling the President's Bluff0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:04:00 -0800546_us-ascii Phil wrote: >Well of course he lives in France! A Real American(tm) would >never write something like the scurilous screed below.

Seemed pretty tame to me. But I get my op-eds and news analysis from The Nation.

Sharon Gates

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 2050 51 26_Re: I am not an antisemite12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:18:50 -0800336_us-ascii Well- look- you live in Israel; that makes you a Zionist. You have every right to disagree politically and philosophically with what is going on in the government; but you sit in the homeland of the Jewish people. Therefore, you obviously are a Zionist, and not an anti-semite. --- stangold wrote: [...] 2102 82 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site16_Katherine Lavine26_holycowfoods@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 08:34:11 -0800561_US-ASCII is that Wavy Gravy standing next to her?



----- Original Message ----- From: To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: 2/1/2005 12:35:35 AM Subject: Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site



memory not that good...however speaking of Buffy, I had a chance to meet her last yr. at a SEVA Benf. in Berkeley (also took her out for dim sum the next day) and got to tell her that I always credited her as having written 'the soundtrack to my adolescent love life' (circa mb ''65.)...she liked that! have attached pic of same. [...] 2185 95 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:42:26 +0200519_windows-1255

----- Original Message ----- From: aviva grosbard To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site



I distinctly remember "The Banks Are Made of Marble" think it was Phil Ochs-but not sure-haven't heard it since:( anyone have it downloaded somewhere?Aviva You will find The Banks of Marble on "The Weavers Reunion at Carnegie Hall 1963". I have also attached the words and music from an old "Sing Out". [...] 2281 26 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:03:18 -0500492_iso-8859-1 >>Was his name Norbert?

Yup, thats it.

I see your gray cells are functioning better than mine, but after all you, are younger :-).

Good memories.....

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 2308 158 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:06:27 +0200438_windows-1255 How thoughtful of you-but the attachment for some reason wasn't there. Would love if you could send it to me deang@netvision.net.il if it isn't too much trouble. Are you also an ex-Tavor person? Or just like old folk music? Thanks in advance-Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: lewis levin To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 6:42 PM Subject: Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site [...] 2467 78 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:30:50 EST504_US-ASCII Didn't get the attachment. I am loving this thread of conversation. BUT it is really aging me. I am of the Pete Seegar, Weaver's world. Since I had small kids and we made Aliyah and lived in Israel in the 60s and much of the 70s, many of the songs are not familiar to me. Until, of course, my kids started going to Habonim. An old memory - we, my Habo friends and I were invited to a Seegar concert in the basement of a church. Your name had to be on the list. When we knocked on the door, [...] 2546 46 28_Re: the caretaker at Tel Ari22_Ilan and Lorrie Israel24_ilanori@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:24:57 +0200414_windows-1255 Eggbert Dibble...one of the good guys!

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 2593 33 64_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site:Another story11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 09:37:34 -0800 2627 83 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:22:13 EST522_US-ASCII

In a message dated 2/1/2005 4:23:47 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, deang@BEZEQINT.NET writes:

I distinctly remember "The Banks Are Made of Marble" think it was Phil Ochs-but not sure-haven't heard it since:( anyone have it downloaded somewhere?Aviva



That song was written by Les Rice, the husband of a long-ago friend and colleague, Nancy Rice. It was probably recorded by Pete Seeger, who knew the Rices. All lived in the beautiful mid-Hudson Valley (as did I about 30 years ago. [...] 2711 26 28_Re: the caretaker at Tel Ari0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:40:08 -0500517_iso-8859-1 >>Eggbert Dibble...one of the good guys!

Lorrie:

Yes, that is the right name - and he was a great guy!

Regards,

Ken

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 2738 57 26_Re: I am not an antisemite0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 10:44:54 -0800309_us-ascii Sue wrote: >Well- look- you live in Israel; that makes you a >Zionist. You have every right to disagree politically >and philosophically with what is going on in the >government; but you sit in the homeland of the Jewish >people. Therefore, you obviously are a Zionist, and >not an anti-semite. [...] 2796 116 75_Glorifying the Orthodox & Sam's Rethinking of the Meaning of a Jewish State14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:55:14 +0000467_- Shalom Sam,

In your posting on 26 January 2005, you wrote, ““ Marty seems eager to glorify Israel's Orthodox ranks of all kinds. He feels that they [are] being subjected to prejudice. This is a strange attitude since Israel spends a disproportionate amount of the Jewish people's money keeping Orthodox institutions afloat. The attitude is also strange because much of the orthodox community holds the nonorthodox in contempt for not being orthodox. ”” [...] 2913 23 22_[BULK] memory lane....14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 20:58:17 +0200445_windows-1255 I went to a Pete Seeger concert with my PARENTS!!! in 1957-we sat on the floor though I cant recall the venue-but what I DO recall is he noticed this little 4 year old kid who knew all the words and was singing her heart out-and called me up to sit on his knee drew me a cat on a piece of newspaper-no-I dont have the picture anymore-just the memory....speaking of which-anyone out there remember the infamous Krepsie??? Aviva [...] 2937 58 26_Re: I am not an antisemite12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 11:40:22 -0800643_us-ascii But they wouldn't consider themselves "Jews"!--sue

--- Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote:

> Sue wrote: > >Well- look- you live in Israel; that makes you a > >Zionist. You have every right to disagree > politically > >and philosophically with what is going on in the > >government; but you sit in the homeland of the > Jewish > >people. Therefore, you obviously are a Zionist, and > >not an anti-semite. > > By that reasoning, there are a heck of a lot of > Palestinian Zionists. > > Sharon Gates > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > [...] 2996 57 22_Barbara Lubin and MECA14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:42:34 +0000484_- Shalom Sharon and Batel:

Both of you responded to my posting about MECA and its founder Barbara Lubin in the same vein, i.e.,

Why do I think she is anti-Semitic? Maybe Ms. Lubin is just anti-Israel or anti-Zionist?

Once upon a time, up to the 1930’s, many mainstream Orthodox and Reform Jews and their leaders were anti-Zionist for a variety of ideological reasons. So in principal, being anti-Zionist was not automatically an indication of anti-Semitism. [...] 3054 64 4_Pete12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:46:56 +0200533_windows-1255 Pete - nothing like 'im. The last time I saw him in concert was in the early 80s at a fundraiser for "In These Times." Around the same period: A friend travelling by train from Grand Central Station to upstate saw a guy huddled against a wall playing banjo waiting for a train. Thought he was a street musician without a home... he went over to chat with him: it was Pete! story: A few months ago I came home to see our 3 bigger kids sitting on small chairs by the door, directly under where the speaker is mounted [...] 3119 73 23_Re: Fw: A very good map5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 12:03:46 -0800662_iso-8859-1 David

What is "1)" in reference to?

What is "2)" in reference to?

What is "3)" in reference to?

Steve







----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: A very good map



> Steve wrote: >>So, David, are we to assume you are OK with the areas delineated in these >>maps and you would allow the Jews to live within the pre-1967 green line >>(even though that rankles so many good people of conscience)? > > I'm sorry, Steve. I've read and re-read your message and I still [...] 3193 226 23_Re: Fw: A very good map16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:23:34 -0500520_us-ascii David and Steve- If you want to keep this going, could you please continue this fight off line? We are all sick of it. Judy

Steve wrote:

> David > > What is "1)" in reference to? > > What is "2)" in reference to? > > What is "3)" in reference to? > > Steve > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 3:45 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: A very good map > > >> Steve wrote: >> >>> So, David, are we to [...] 3420 34 79_Re: Glorifying the Orthodox & Sam's Rethinking of the Meaning of a Jewish State0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:27:44 -0500583_iso-8859-1 Marty

Reasonable people can disagree.

1. I see no evidence that orthodox have been persecuted by the secular left. It goes the other way around for the most part. The orthodox minority has insisted on hoisting its practices and values on the rest of the country. (with a considerble price tag)

2. Whatever your way that see some Zionist purity in the West Bank and Gaza, I see it the opposite way. These folks are devoid of the Zionist values I grew up with and we grew up with in the movement. They are often fundementalists and in their hearts [...] 3455 283 23_Re: Fw: A very good map5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:18:55 -0800399_iso-8859-1 Judy

Sure. And you are right. I apologise

David- See you offline.

Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith R. Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 12:23 PM Subject: Re: Fw: A very good map



David and Steve- If you want to keep this going, could you please continue this fight off line? We are all sick of it. Judy [...] 3739 44 26_Re: Barbara Lubin and MECA0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 13:40:06 -0800576_us-ascii I didn't ask Marty why he thinks Barbara Lubin is an anti-Semite, I pointed out that he made a case that she is anti-Zionist. Anti-Zionist and anti-Semite are not the same thing. However, for Marty (apparently), anti-Zionist implies anti-Semite; Barbara Lubin is an anti-Zionist, therefore, the logical inference is that she is an anti-Semite. Personally, I believe one can hate Jews while still supporting the concept of a Jewish state, and one can oppose the Jewish state (in concept or in fact) without hating Jews. But maybe that's too much nuance for some. [...] 3784 27 26_Re: Barbara Lubin and MECA11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 14:05:15 -0800 3812 138 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 23:58:46 +0200617_iso-8859-1 I'm seending the attachment again

arie ----- Original Message ----- From: Emabear@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:30 PM Subject: Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site



Didn't get the attachment. I am loving this thread of conversation. BUT it is really aging me. I am of the Pete Seegar, Weaver's world. Since I had small kids and we made Aliyah and lived in Israel in the 60s and much of the 70s, many of the songs are not familiar to me. Until, of course, my kids started going to Habonim. An old memory - we, my Habo friends and [...] 3951 54 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 17:58:42 EST467_US-ASCII Kepsie was part of my camp experience at Midwest in 1954, 1955, don't remember when the first year was. He may have been at Kinneret before that.

Ellen

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4006 120 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 01:39:32 +0200326_iso-8859-1 :) he was still alive and kicking (or dead and kicking) at Tavor in 1970 which was my last year at camp:)-anyone know what became of him after that? Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: Emabear@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 12:58 AM Subject: Re: [BULK] memory lane.... [...] 4127 226 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:58:33 -0800519_iso-8859-1 I don't remember my first song at camp,(which was Tavor), but I have a very vivid memory of arriving in Israel for the first time, as part of the first ever KMBet in Israel. The sun was glowing on the horizon over the tops of the buildings and the east coast kids burst out singing: "I think it's gonna be all right, yes the worst is over now, the morning sun is rising like a red rubber ball." Whenever I hear it, or see an amazing sunset, I still feel like I am right back there. - Bev ----- Original [...] 4354 115 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:20:55 EST536_US-ASCII As long as we are walking down memory lane, allow me please.........we had moved to Israel and were at the Merkaz K'lita, Ben Yehuda, outside Netanya. The kids managed to lose every hairbrush we had. I asked the moreh to write the word down for me and boarded a bus for Netanya. Got to town and couldn't find the slip of paper so I walked up and down the streets looking for one in the window that I could point to. No go so I boarded the bus back, without the hair brush, feeling very despondent. Just then Julie Andrews [...] 4470 22 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....0_15_AvivaMT@AOL.COM28_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 20:54:51 EST513_US-ASCII Midwest --later Tavor--opened in 1956, and Krepsie, as I remember, was the spirit that inhabited the "refet." I was last there in '66. The refet was gone and so, I thought was Krepsie.

Aviva Tauman

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 4493 66 44_U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 200516_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:57:59 -0500505_ISO-8859-15 Dear Chevre- This story from CNN (NB--Not the Onion) falls in the "truth is stranger than fiction" category. While it has nothing to do with anything on Habonet, my family got a good laugh out of it and so I thought I would share it with all of you. My daughter suggested that we do our part for peace by digging out her brothers' dozens of old GI Joes and dress them in Iraqi grab for a "prisoner exchange." Warmly, Judy http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/01/iraq.hostage/index.html [...] 4560 54 48_Re: U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 20050_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 03:09:10 +0000631_- This piece reminded me of the Niel Young song, "Toy soldiers and Nixon coming..."

-------------- Original message -------------- Dear Chevre- This story from CNN (NB--Not the Onion) falls in the "truth is stranger than fiction" category. While it has nothing to do with anything on Habonet, my family got a good laugh out of it and so I thought I would share it with all of you. My daughter suggested that we do our part for peace by digging out her brothers' dozens of old GI Joes and dress them in Iraqi grab for a "prisoner exchange." Warmly, Judy http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/02/01/iraq.hostage/index.html [...] 4615 237 36_[BULK] It's the Goyim Stupid (cont.)11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 21:29:47 -0700561_us-ascii Why does Bill Moyers hate Amerika? Is he a self-hating Christian? Should he be forced to watch The Passion of the Christ until he see The Light(tm)?



There Is No Tomorrow By Bill Moyers The Star Tribune

Sunday 30 January 2005

One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power in the Oval Office and in Congress. For the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington. [...] 4853 29 50_Re: musicians/music lovers:excellent oriental site11_Lon Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET30_Tue, 1 Feb 2005 23:35:20 -0500500_US-ASCII I remember hearing "Chelsea Morning" till I thought I'd puke. Maybe that was because our tzrifmate thought she was also Joni Mitchell and sang it nonstop in a bad falsetto. (BTW, if you haven't heard her lately, her voice is deep and smoky and wonderful)

When my 22 year old started at Mosh, Spice Girls was on the ram kol. He said they didn't play much Israeli music and didn't seem to know what a kumsitz was. Oh well. Everything about Mosh was as dear to him as it was to me. [...] 4883 136 48_Re: U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 200513_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:25:23 +0200651_ISO-8859-15 Don't worry Judy. The action figure community sticks together. GI Joe will be avenged:

http://home.comcast.net/~kylaer/optimusmachinegun.jpg

Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith R. Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 4:57 AM Subject: U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 2005



Dear Chevre- This story from CNN (NB--Not the Onion) falls in the "truth is stranger than fiction" category. While it has nothing to do with anything on Habonet, my family got a good laugh out of it and so I thought I would share it with all of you. My daughter suggested that we do our [...] 5020 139 48_Re: U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 200513_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 13:41:49 +0200662_ISO-8859-15 This is starting to catch on: http://thetemplarpundit.blogspot.com/2005/02/westerner-taken-hostage-in-iraq.html

----- Original Message ----- From: Judith R. Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 4:57 AM Subject: U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 2005



Dear Chevre- This story from CNN (NB--Not the Onion) falls in the "truth is stranger than fiction" category. While it has nothing to do with anything on Habonet, my family got a good laugh out of it and so I thought I would share it with all of you. My daughter suggested that we do our part for peace by digging out her brothers' dozens [...] 5160 40 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....5_aviva21_aviva5675@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 05:37:35 -0600692_iso-8859-1 Can a spirit ever really be gone??? Beware Tavorniks of today! ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [BULK] memory lane....



> Midwest --later Tavor--opened in 1956, and Krepsie, as I remember, was the > spirit that inhabited the "refet." I was last there in '66. The refet was > gone > and so, I thought was Krepsie. > > Aviva Tauman > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and [...] 5201 20 48_Re: U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 20050_14_KBob24@AOL.COM30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:13:09 -0500417_iso-8859-1 It even made the NY Times today!

Ken

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 5222 48 48_Re: U.S. hostage appears to be toy - Feb 1, 200512_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 08:01:35 -0800660_us-ascii While this is creepy, I had a real laugh this morning! Wouldn't this be a great way to fight a war?--Dolldom, beware!!! They could even audition on American Idol; think of how the networks will jump on this cheaply made reality show!--sue --- KBob24@AOL.COM wrote:

> It even made the NY Times today! > > Ken > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > [...] 5271 256 84_Fw: =?windows-1255?Q?=EE=F9=F8=E3_=E4=E7=E5=F5_+_=EE=F6=E2=FA_=E8"=E5_=E1=F9=E1=E8?=5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 10:53:50 -0800454_windows-1255 Message ----- Original Message ----- From: Marcia Plager To: Paul Hyden ; Baker Taniguchi ; Larry Genstil ; Joe and June ; Lri Wesby ; Dave Davidson ; Chai Gadde ; Frank McCoy ; Donna Pulliam ; Randy and Gloria Adams ; Geoff and Linda Remes ; Peggy Felice ; Bob Jones ; Joe Caligiure ; Marvin Cohn ; Cynthia Bradley ; Sherry and Angela ; Odis Richardson Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 5:52 AM Subject: Fw: îùøã äçåõ + îöâú è"å áùáè [...] 5528 42 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....0_16_Debbunim@AOL.COM28_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:25:40 EST518_US-ASCII Krepsie was not housed in the refet. He was in a run-down shack called krepsies behind the bayit--maybe same building used for malechet yad or nearby. I am sure his spirit remains even if the building is gone.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 5571 218 76_Democracy, Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism & Other Items Raised In Sam's Posting14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:17:15 +0000658_- Shalom Sam:

Enclosed are a number of comments on your 1 Feb 2005 posting to me.

1. You wrote, ““ I see no evidence that orthodox have been persecuted by the secular left. ””

As I have written previously, Leftist governments of Israel, the Histadrut, etc. employed physical and economic threats and coercion against many thousands of Orthodox families to force them to enroll their children in anti-Orthodox secular schools. The same governments also operated the hospitals from which thousands of babies from Orthodox families were kidnapped. When Orthodox Jews complained about this treatment, they were denounced from the bamah [...] 5790 19 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....0_15_AvivaMT@AOL.COM28_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 21:59:00 EST432_US-ASCII Of course, Debbie, you have a better memory than I do1 Aviva

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 5810 54 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM28_Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:01:20 EST474_US-ASCII You're right. He did live in a run down shack and I am certain his spirit is still there!

Ellen

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 5865 106 76_Democracy, Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism & Other Items Raised In Sam's Posting12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:17:38 +0200 5972 80 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 04:18:03 EST320_ISO-8859-1

In a message dated 2/2/05 4:36:37 PM, Debbunim@AOL.COM writes:



> Krepsie was not housed in the refet. He was in a run-down shack called > krepsies behind the bayit--maybe same building used for malechet yad or nearby. > I am sure his spirit remains even if the building is gone. > [...] 6053 167 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:57:30 +0200582_ISO-8859-1 Anyone know if that "non-refet" is still there? To the best of my memory-melechet yad was NEXT TO the bayit-behind was a BK (wow how long since you heard THAT one?:) and often it was the ONLY one that had hot water. Old Tavorniks seem to be coming out of lurking here-its kind of nice to hear-and if my memory is still intact-Ms. Tauman-you were my first madricah.So-Tehila v'shevach-and my best to you all. Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: SC523@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [BULK] memory lane.... [...] 6221 196 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:40:06 +0200446_ISO-8859-1 I was at Tavor last summer for a visit (down memory lane). The refet is long gone, and Krepsie's tzrif, too (dismantled by KM Bet'65, the floor moved to in front of the lake as a stage. It, too, is gone). However, the old Melechet Yad building still stands, alto now used as a moadon madrichim. New melechet yad is where the old moadon used to be (after being blown down in a winter blizzard years back) next to the chadar ochel. [...] 6418 191 26_symnposium-Islam & Israel-13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:07:37 +0200696_iso-8859-1 Front Page Magazine has printed a symposiium: Islame & Israel it can be found at the following URL http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16025

Very long and very interesting.

Moshe Sheskin Hulda

The participants are:

Does Islam teach that Jews are entitled to Israel? A distinguished group of Muslims joins us today for our panel discussion. Our guests:



Mohamed El-Mallah, a board member of Al-Ittihad Mosque in Vista, former board member of Islamic Center of San Diego, and an associate member of the Muslim American Society. A native of Egypt who migrated to the U.S. seven years ago, he is an activist in the Muslim [...] 6610 46 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....0_16_Debbunim@AOL.COM28_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 08:24:46 EST423_US-ASCII I thought the old moadon burned down. Any opinions?

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 6657 67 12_Ritual sucks11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 08:37:51 -0700374_us-ascii This gives new meaning to the term "bloodsucker."

NY Officials Bar Rabbi from Circumcision Ritual Wed Feb 2, 2005 04:46 PM ET

By Larry Fine

NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York City health officials have gone to court to stop a rabbi from performing a type of ritual circumcision they believe may have led to the death of a baby boy from herpes. [...] 6725 59 20_Healthcare in the US12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:03:55 -0800559_us-ascii Shalom Chevre- I have been trying to acquire health insurance for the past year, since our ocmpany is small and it is not offered at my job. I found out the following: 1. If one is between the ages of 50-66, you are priced out of the traditional companies (Blue Cross, Aetna, etc.) The State of California has something called the "High Risk Pool," which, if one is turned down by the traditional companies, is supposed to be open for you. The problem is this High Risk Pool is the same price as the traditional companies, and therfore, you are [...] 6785 190 59_New book says U.S. has five secret military bases in Israel0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:40:53 EST655_US-ASCII Does anyone have more info on this?





_http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/534726.html_ (http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/534726.html)

Last Update: 01/02/2005 09:35 New book says U.S. has five secret military bases in Israel By _Yossi Melman_ (mailto:ymelman@haaretz.co.il) , Haaretz Correspondent The United States has five secret military bases in Israel, according to a new book published recently in the U.S. "Code Names," written by journalist William Arkin, a former U.S. intelligence official, says there have been secret ties between the U.S. and Israel since the September 11, 2001 attacks. [...] 6976 27 12_To Avi Lyons12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:57:23 -0800617_us-ascii Avi- shalom- I know the Jewish Communal workers in LA are organized- do they have a healthcare plan?....do you have any contacts ?--sue(sie)





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------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 7004 46 16_Re: To Avi Lyons0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:43:33 EST539_US-ASCII They are organized although I don't know by which union. I'll forward your email to our CA JLC President - he's Secretary-Treasurer of the Cal Fed of Teachers. Send me a tel # where he, or someone from his staff can reach you. Avi

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 7051 77 24_Re: Healthcare in the US11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:54:53 -0800426_us-ascii I am part of the California High Risk Plan, and to put it in perspective, I pay $478 a month, plus an outrageous out of pocket and all the other stuff they have me pay. I'm with you Sue, but I don't believe you have a chance at this.

Batel



-----Original Message----- From: Sue Liberman Sent: Feb 3, 2005 10:03 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Healthcare in the US [...] 7129 77 35_Intro and thoughts on Zionism today14_David Tobocman23_dtobocman@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:13:51 -0800314_US-ASCII Hi. It's David Tobocman. Tavor, 1975-1981, Workshop 31, Grofit. After I left workshop (ahem...) in the middle of the program, I was summarily rejected by the movement as a bad doogma and a persona non grata. They actually rejected my application to be a madrich at Tavor in 1982. But I'm not bitter. [...] 7207 155 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:21:34 -0600491_us-ascii At 12:40 +0200 2/3/05, carmidave wrote: >I was at Tavor last summer for a visit (down memory lane). The >refet is long gone, and Krepsie's tzrif, too (dismantled by KM >Bet'65, the floor moved to in front of the lake as a stage. It, >too, is gone). However, the old Melechet Yad building still stands, >alto now used as a moadon madrichim. New melechet yad is where the >old moadon used to be (after being blown down in a winter blizzard >years back) next to the chadar ochel. [...] 7363 22 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 22:59:20 -0500489_iso-8859-1 Great story, David.

If I was running the capital campaign at Tavor today, I would ask for the names and addresses of your cohorts in order to solicit gifts :-).

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 7386 26 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....14_David Tobocman23_dtobocman@EARTHLINK.NET30_Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:15:21 -0800374_US-ASCII Thanks, David Ferri for the deep info on the moadon scandal. I was merely on the wrecking crew that demo'd the ceiling that summer of 1978. The most fun avodah I ever had at machaneh. It was great hearing the details of how the decision was made. Thanks. I always felt guilty... now I know it wasn't my fault. I was just following orders... from your kvutsah. [...] 7413 54 53_Re: Kumsitz Coming Up in Yerushalayim - Save the Date0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 04:56:34 EST350_US-ASCII The Kumsitz will begin around 7:30 and the address for Janet Baumgold and Marty Land is the corner of Yehuda and Bet Lechem - it's either Yehuda 3 or Bet Lechem 57 (they have 2 addresses). PHone number is (02)6714504 if you need help with directions.

Don't forget instruments, shironim, and kosher desserts and snacks and drink! [...] 7468 77 63_Re: New book says U.S. has five secret military bases in Israel9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:09:22 +0200289_iso-8859-1 Next time I see any US military skulking around, I'll let you know. Not secret was the fact that US forces trained down the road from Urim at Tze'elim's facilities for urban warfare (and contructed a new facility, out of plywood). I drove around it, so its not too secret. [...] 7546 69 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:13:39 +0200353_iso-8859-1 Re: Tavor memory lane....Blown down, collapsed under snow - same thing, same result. However, removing the ceiling to let heat escape was a good idea, just a shame you didn't think about the structural issues, but young madrichim aren't exactly structural engineers (some of my projects died similar deaths).

Shabbat Shalom, Dave [...] 7616 52 13_One smart Jew13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:39:33 +0200459_windows-1255 http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/198cdapm.asp?pg=1

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 7669 61 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:14:55 -0500622_us-ascii When I look back on my madrichim, it seems they all become writers, professional Jews, social workers and musicians except for the really science-oriented guys who went into computers, so old madrichim wouldn't be great structural engineers either--but maybe now they would know enough to ask!

Judy



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 7731 103 63_Re: New book says U.S. has five secret military bases in Israel11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:24:30 -0500600_iso-8859-1 "...out of plywood..." Hmmmm.

Notice any recent changes in the moadon at Urim Dave? Watch out for snow :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: carmidave To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 6:09 AM Subject: Re: New book says U.S. has five secret military bases in Israel



Next time I see any US military skulking around, I'll let you know. Not secret was the fact that US forces trained down the road from Urim at Tze'elim's facilities for urban warfare (and contructed a new facility, out of plywood). I drove around it, so its not too secret. [...] 7835 115 26_Re: [BULK] memory lane....11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 14:47:22 +0200581_iso-8859-1 Krepsie was or still is a uneversel story told at summer camps around campfires ever summer.

arie ----- Original Message ----- From: Debbunim@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [BULK] memory lane....



Krepsie was not housed in the refet. He was in a run-down shack called krepsies behind the bayit--maybe same building used for malechet yad or nearby. I am sure his spirit remains even if the building is gone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [...] 7951 35 80_Re: Democracy, Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism & Other Items Raised In Sam's Posting11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 15:24:51 +0200430_windows-1255 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Goodman" To: Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 2:17 AM Subject: Democracy, Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism & Other Items Raised In Sam's Posting



You forgot a few points. The peace treaty with Egypt would not have passed it was not for help from the Left. Was that undemocratic? Was Yamit that undemocratic? [...] 7987 123 24_Re: Healthcare in the US0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:54:17 EST642_US-ASCII

In a message dated 2/3/2005 1:04:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

Sue

Be realistic

The reason you don't have healthcare is because the system was designed to exclude you and enrich the people working for the HMO's. We have the money to cover everyone, but the Republicans have turned the HMO's into a jobs program for clerks. While the administrative costs for most health plans world wide is about 1% the HMO's in America are charging 25% to 40%. They are paying their executives millions and their a whole office buildings full of people who make hundreds of thousands. [...] 8111 151 24_Re: Healthcare in the US16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:28:26 -0500577_us-ascii And now they are doing the same to Social Security. Those of us under 55 can take a "risk" with our retirement (which we could already do with IRAs etc) and enrich Wall St in the process. Judy

Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 2/3/2005 1:04:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes: > > Sue > > Be realistic > > The reason you don't have healthcare is because the system was > designed to exclude you and enrich the people working for the HMO's. > We have the money to cover everyone, but the Republicans have turned [...] 8263 57 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 07:54:09 -0800308_us-ascii Ken wrote: >Great story, David. > >If I was running the capital campaign >at Tavor today, I would ask for the >names and addresses of your cohorts >in order to solicit gifts :-).

Ken, you're always thinking! 2 names are out, it's only a matter of time before the entire crew is exposed. [...] 8321 109 24_Re: Healthcare in the US12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 08:14:16 -0800613_us-ascii Sam- here we are in agreement 100%- but "getting real" is exactly what I am doing. After spending my entire "work" day on the phone with lawyers (including Gloria Allred's company- which was "horrible!)....and speaking to people in the offices of our legislators, I have deduced that suing is out of reach, and starting something on the grass roots level is more realistic, so I am convening a committee of people to start the "California Senior Health Initiative" to begin a small clinic for people between the ages of 50-65 who can not get healthcare...one small space with some volunteers.....we [...] 8431 57 24_Re: Healthcare in the US0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:19:51 EST368_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/4/05 11:15:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

> so I am convening a committee of people to > start the "California Senior Health Initiative" to > begin a small clinic for people between the ages of > 50-65 who can not get healthcare...one small space > with some volunteers.....we will see if this goes [...] 8489 84 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@WORDMASTER.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:24:05 -0600369_us-ascii At 7:54 -0800 2/4/05, Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV wrote: >Ken wrote: >>Great story, David. >> >>If I was running the capital campaign >>at Tavor today, I would ask for the >>names and addresses of your cohorts >>in order to solicit gifts :-). > >Ken, you're always thinking! 2 names are out, >it's only a matter of time before the entire crew >is exposed. [...] 8574 151 25_Re: Tavor memory lane....9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:36:33 +0200444_iso-8859-1 Re: Tavor memory lane....Looks like its going to be an expensive bullet, too. Ken, How much would a new chadar ochel for Tavor cost these days? That's what they need today. Figure its at least worth a moadon plus 30 years of interest, right? :-)

Shabbat Shalom, Dave Holtzer ----- Original Message ----- From: David Ferri To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, February 04, 2005 6:24 PM Subject: Re: Tavor memory lane.... [...] 8726 77 24_Re: Healthcare in the US0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 12:31:59 EST568_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/4/2005 11:15:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

so I am going to try and DO something...we'll see...I am not letting this one slip away...sue

good luck













------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 8804 311 8_Lucky...11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 11:52:59 -0600408_ISO-8859-1 The latest Daniel Gordis article.

Micha and I were doing some of his Talmud homework together last night, when he needed a break. So I suggested that we watch the news. We flipped on CNN, which Micha thought was pretty boring. Almost immediately, though, CNN got to a story about Israel preparing to let the PA take over security in five Palestinian cities. Suddenly, he was all ears. [...] 9116 78 76_Re: Democracy, Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism & Other Items Raised In Sam's ...0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:00:03 EST592_US-ASCII Marty

I have a very good book for you to read. Its called "Under the Banner of Heaven" It is about Morman fundamentalism. I think you will find the book eye opening. I think you may also see a reflection of your own misunderstanding of why fundamentalists are dangerous even when they have mainstream counterparts. You will also see the reflection of your own logic in defending the Jewish fundamentalists as persecuted minority. If you have some soul, you will see why some of us are so frightened of our orthodox brothers and sisters and why your romanticizing of them [...] 9195 59 24_Re: Healthcare in the US12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 10:09:14 -0800662_us-ascii I sense cynicism- it's ok-- The Jewish State started that way too...:)- s

--- Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> In a message dated 2/4/2005 11:15:36 A.M. Eastern > Standard Time, > fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes: > > so I > am going to try and DO something...we'll see...I am > not letting this one slip away...sue > > good luck > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9255 85 24_Re: Healthcare in the US0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 13:14:31 EST453_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/4/2005 1:12:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM writes:

I sense cynicism- it's ok-- The Jewish State started that way too...:)- s

I wish you all the luck in the world. I know how many people are fight for healthcare coverage and how brutal this battle is. I know whole funded organizations that are trying to do what you are doing. If you succeed, you will have done something wonderful. [...] 9341 54 80_Re: Democracy, Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism & Other Items Raised In Sam's Posting0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 20:33:17 +0000479_- Marty,

I wonder if you would consider mandatory religious weddings as a form of religious oppression of the majority? Does the nonacceptance of anything but orthodox conversion a form of oppression?

What about throwing stones or putting up chains to prevent people from breaking the Sabbath, is that oppression?

P.S. I must have missed your original post on the kidnapping of orthodox children, could you direct me to where I can find out about this? [...] 9396 103 16_Re: Ritual sucks0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 00:48:06 +0000533_- Does anyone know if the Larry Fine who wrote this is the same as the one who use to work closely with Moe Howard?

-------------- Original message --------------

> This gives new meaning to the term "bloodsucker." > > NY Officials Bar Rabbi from Circumcision Ritual > Wed Feb 2, 2005 04:46 PM ET > > By Larry Fine > > NEW YORK (Reuters) - New York City health officials have gone to court to > stop a rabbi from performing a type of ritual circumcision they believe may > have led to the death of a baby boy from [...] 9500 30 16_Re: Ritual sucks11_Lon Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 4 Feb 2005 23:46:16 -0500600_ISO-8859-1 Woo woo woo woo, nyuk nyuk nyuk, soytenly! Don't think so, Richard.

Shelly



On Friday, February 4, 2005, at 07:48 PM, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> Does anyone know if the Larry Fine who wrote this is the same as the > one who use to work closely with Moe Howard? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 9531 160 36_[BULK] Observing the Iraqi Elections28_Michal and Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 17:52:00 +0200331_iso-8859-1 I was invited by a Spanish NGO to act as an observer in the recent Iraqi elections. As a consequence I was able to spend two days in Jordan visiting polling stations, observing their operations and watching the voters cast their ballots. I would like to relate some of the impressions I had during this experience. [...] 9692 232 40_Re: [BULK] Observing the Iraqi Elections12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 08:49:37 -0800571_us-ascii Frankie-Ephraim from Tel Aviv!- do you have any pictures you can scan and send to my email at work? I would like to publish this in our paper!--susie --- Michal and Efraim Perlmutter wrote:

> I was invited by a Spanish NGO to act as an observer > in the recent Iraqi > elections. As a consequence I was able to spend two > days in Jordan visiting > polling stations, observing their operations and > watching the voters cast > their ballots. I would like to relate some of the > impressions I had during > this experience. [...] 9925 20 40_Re: [BULK] Observing the Iraqi Elections9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:41:26 +0200447_iso-8859-1 Jeez, Efraim, did you get the ok from Mooshi to go to Jordan?

Dave

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 9946 52 40_Re: [BULK] Observing the Iraqi Elections0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:05:38 +0000547_- Since when is Jordan overseas from Iraq?

-------------- Original message --------------

> Jeez, Efraim, did you get the ok from Mooshi to go to Jordan? > > Dave > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 9999 81 19_Religious Opression14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 23:12:34 +0000450_- Shalom Richard,

In your posting to me, you asked,

1. Do mandatory religious weddings constitute religious oppression?

2. Does unavailability of non-orthodox conversion constitute oppression?

3. Does throwing stones or putting up chains to prevent people from driving on Shabbat constitute oppression?

For purposes of this discussion, I understand oppression to mean ARBITRARY and/or CRUEL exercise of POWER. [...] 10081 57 19_Jews in Russia 200511_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 17:32:50 -0600618_us-ascii This letter is from an American student studying in Russia. Rozzie



Subject:Anti-Semitism in Russia 2005 > >there is a political debate show on NTV on thursdays that features two >prominent political figures, who debate one another over some timely >issue. the idea is that one person challenges the other to appear on the >show. each person is allowed to invite two "seconds," or assistants, to >back him up with questions to the other. viewers can then call in and >vote for the person with whom they agree. > >last night a man named alexei leonov, a former soviet astronaut, >challenged [...] 10139 109 23_Re: Religious Opression0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:16:24 EST563_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/5/2005 6:13:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

Shalom Richard,

In your posting to me, you asked,

1. Do mandatory religious weddings constitute religious oppression?

2. Does unavailability of non-orthodox conversion constitute oppression?

3. Does throwing stones or putting up chains to prevent people from driving on Shabbat constitute oppression?

For purposes of this discussion, I understand oppression to mean ARBITRARY and/or CRUEL exercise of POWER. [...] 10249 76 23_Re: Religious Opression0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM28_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 19:23:45 EST681_US-ASCII

In a message dated 2/5/2005 3:13:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

For purposes of this discussion, I understand oppression to mean ARBITRARY and/or CRUEL exercise of POWER.









Where did you get "ARBITRARY"? There's very little if anything ARBITRARY about oppression.



Debbie

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 10326 130 23_Re: Religious Opression0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 01:36:53 +0000567_- By your definition, the Jim Crow laws of the not so old south were not oppression because they weren't cruel (sitting in the back of the bus doesn't hurt anyone) or arbitrary (all blacks were effected by them). What possible difference does it make to a secular couple who wish to get married, or a couple of different religions who want to get married and are not allowed to, that the laws are enforced by non-orthodox, it is still discrimination, and as such, oppression. You and I both know that even though the religious parties have never held a majority [...] 10457 24 39_Re: Intro and thoughts on Zionism today0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 23:54:59 -0500564_iso-8859-1 >>People, no one I've encountered (outside of our movement) in all of my days understands that there are left wing, labor-oriented Zionists. The word "Zionist" connotes a right wing, oppressive, racist meaning to the rest of the world, not unlike the connotation of Apartheid.>>

David:

Join in helping to educate left leaning people outside our movement that there lots of people who believe in progressive Zionism. For starters, tell them to check out www.ameinu.net to see views and perspectives on Zionism that are not right wing. [...] 10482 192 23_Re: Religious Opression12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sat, 5 Feb 2005 21:53:32 -0800602_us-ascii What about mandatory "Christmas vacation" and "New Year's" and "in God we trust" and Bush's foring "me" to accept his moral view of the world..Somewhere America is losing something....I find THAT oppressive...sue --- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:

> By your definition, the Jim Crow laws of the not so > old south were not oppression because they weren't > cruel (sitting in the back of the bus doesn't hurt > anyone) or arbitrary (all blacks were effected by > them). What possible difference does it make to a > secular couple who wish to get married, or a couple > of different [...] 10675 74 53_Re: Kumsitz Coming Up in Yerushalayim - Save the Date0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 04:44:28 EST452_US-ASCII Chevreh, I've been asked to reprint the original email.

See you soon I hope! ALiya

Chevreh,

Save the date of Sat. night February 12th at the home of Janet Baumgold and Marty Land in Baka. Directions and time to follow in about a week. Thanks to Janet and Marty for their generosity. Everyone coming please 1)spread the word to friends; 2)bring instruments and shironim; and 3)bring baked goods, munchies, and drinks. [...] 10750 95 53_Re: Kumsitz Coming Up in Yerushalayim - Save the Date0_13_SC523@AOL.COM28_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 04:50:41 EST430_ISO-8859-1 Sorry - here are both emails together for those who so requested:

Chevreh,

Save the date of Sat. night February 12th at the home of Janet Baumgold and Marty Land in Baka. Directions and time to follow in about a week. Thanks to Janet and Marty for their generosity. Everyone coming please 1)spread the word to friends; 2)bring instruments and shironim; and 3)bring baked goods, munchies, and drinks. [...] 10846 121 14_Chevre Burgers0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM28_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 10:30:01 EST573_US-ASCII This showed up on the diabetic gourmet list I received. Thought the chevre would enjoy! Avi **************

CHEVRE BURGERS

Yield: 4 servings Source: "Light and Easy Diabetes Cuisine" Info: http://diabeticgourmet.com/book_archive/details/24.shtml

INGREDIENTS

- 12 ounces 90-percent lean ground beef - 1 tablespoon Dijon-style mustard - 1/2 teaspoon pepper - 1/2 teaspoon garlic salt - 1 tablespoon chopped onion - 1/2 teaspoon ground coriander - 2 tablespoons chopped fresh parsley - 3 ounces goat cheese (chevre) - 4 parsley sprigs [...] 10968 96 18_Re: Chevre Burgers12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 08:42:34 -0800678_us-ascii Hey- we should do a Habonim cookbook!--"Medurah Marshmallows", Kvutzah Kugel--or how about Kachol-Lavan Chanukah ckaes......we could raise $$$$$ for the Habonim Foundation!--!!!!!- thanks for the website Avi!!!!!!!!!!! susie --- JLCAA@AOL.COM wrote:

> This showed up on the diabetic gourmet list I > received. Thought the chevre > would enjoy! > Avi > ************** > > CHEVRE BURGERS > > Yield: 4 servings > Source: "Light and Easy Diabetes Cuisine" > Info: > http://diabeticgourmet.com/book_archive/details/24.shtml > > INGREDIENTS > > - 12 ounces 90-percent lean ground beef > - 1 tablespoon Dijon-style mustard > - 1/2 teaspoon pepper > - 1/2 teaspoon [...] 11065 213 40_Fw: Techniques of the Iraqi "Resistance"5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 13:36:21 -0800796_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:56 PM Subject: Fw: Techniques of the Iraqi "Resistance"











Subject: "Resistance" Newest Techniques

Folks,

The following is from a web site called "Iraq the Model". It is a blog written by an Iraqi.

http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/02/new-techniques-of-resistance.html

New techniques of the "resistance". I strongly believe that terrorists are cowards but the cowardice you re going to see in this story is just exceptional. The suicide attack that was performed on an election center in one of Baghdad's districts (Baghdad Al-Jadeedah) last Sunday was performed using a kidnapped "Down Syndrome" patient. Eye [...] 11279 136 24_Re: Healthcare in the US12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sun, 6 Feb 2005 22:56:18 -0800601_iso-8859-1 Sue, and anyone else in California: There are free clinics of various sorts in most cities and of varying quality and scope. I don't know that the effort involved in starting a new one would really make sense. On the political level, you might volunteer to build public support for Sheila Kuhl's bill in the Legislature to create a California system of universal, single-payer health care. Some real momentum is building around it to the point I think it might actually pass -- and then become a central campaign issue, perhaps an initiative, next year if the Governator, as expected, [...] 11416 164 20_Gezer's Last Tractor24_Karen and Steve Einstein18_einstein@SONIC.NET30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 01:42:57 -0800538_ISO-8859-1





Long time lurker, first time poster here. Just back (stateside) after a way too short visit back to Gezer/Jerusalem/aging family. It seems to me that Gezer, a rather central project of North American Habonim not so long ago, is seldom referred to on Habonet. My years on Gezer remain a (too big?) part of my psyche, and, as with many of you, I assume, I still feel a deep connection to the place. Am flying somewhere over the Great Lakes now and thought I¹d tell you something about my trip there. [...] 11581 37 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 09:18:48 -0500581_iso-8859-1 I'm going to break the lurker's first rule and reply to a message. Steve, I'm really tempted to write something very sarcastic, but your letter was so touching and left me so affected that I'm all choked up. Oh, the memories.

Anyways, in your list of recent changes you forgot to mention the nearby new waste disposal plant that leaves us captivated by the aromas wafting around at various times. Or the new private housing tract going up at the entrance to the kibbutz road (that's how we got rid of our debt). But I shouldn't complain. They might've built [...] 11619 213 24_Re: Healthcare in the US12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:50:26 -0800554_us-ascii David- To go to a free clinic, one must sign a paper that you make "poverty" wages. I did this a few times and lied. I am not a bigot or prejudiced, and I may sound like one, but they are overcrowded and full of children who are sick with communicable diseases....They are not the answer for heaqlth care for seniors. . I don't want to put myself in an environment with exacerbates conditions....etc etc...As for Keuhl's measure (SB 942)...I know all about it, and legilsation is terrific, but one: it has to pass ( and God knows when that [...] 11833 40 40_Re: [BULK] Observing the Iraqi Elections0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 08:39:01 -0800489_us-ascii Wouldn't it be wonderful if US elections were conducted as openly, seriously, and professionally.

Sharon Gates

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 11874 20 27_American Budgetary Strategy0_18_DLerner569@AOL.COM30_Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:35:45 -0500606_iso-8859-1 Well, Bush has just sent his first budget of the second term off to Congress. You will no doubt be surprised to learn that after 4 years without a veto, and a no brakes descent from budget surplus into huge deficits while securing a massive tax-break for the rich and allowing Congress to push the envelope in terms of providing taxpayer funds to huge multi-nationals for the purpose of subsidizing their bottomlines at the cost of their workers and former workers, now Bush intends to tighten up on spending. Not on military-industrial complex spending (remember it was Eisenhower (R) who [...] 11895 102 0_6_Livney20_livney@BARKAI.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 10:04:22 +0200444_us-ascii No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 2/7/2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 11998 43 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:38:32 +0200553_iso-8859-1 Although I never lived in Gezer, I do live in a kibbutz (Urim) and knew many members of Garin Bet who breathed new life into Gezer years ago. Steve, first of all I fondly remember Henny, and cherish the memory both of her and the contributions she made to Tavor and Habonim. As to the transformation of Kibbutz life, yes, Urim has also started down the long, painful road of "privatization", not very much to my liking. I look at Gezer today as what Urim might turn into in the not-too-distant future and cringe. I made aliya to live in [...] 12042 78 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor16_avi@gezer.org.il16_avi@GEZER.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 05:49:02 -0500431_iso-8859-1 Hi Dave Why is moving to America (or Canada, for that matter) the only alternative to living on kibbutz? There are more than a few people not living on kibbutz and still managing to live in Israel.

Avi Rosenberg Kibbutz(barely)Gezer

Original Message: ----------------- From: carmidave carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 11:38:32 +0200 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Gezer's Last Tractor [...] 12121 82 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:48:42 +0200604_iso-8859-1 To David Holzer

David, it's truly a pity that you feel that your salvation lies with your American passport. I am a member of Hulda, amongst the first kibbutzim where changes were implemented before the vast majority of kibbutzim even dreamt about them. We had closed our chader Ochel years before privatization, probably the first to charge members for electricity and so on. The very fibres of cooperation were stepped upon and communal life disappeared. I too came to a kibbutz for ideological reasons but now I'm one of the few who has to stand up to privatization. Of course, [...] 12204 37 58_Re: HABONET Digest - 24 Jan 2005 to 25 Jan 2005 (#2005-26)6_Livney20_livney@BARKAI.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 14:26:33 +0200388_iso-8859-1 Hi, As we will be away from Feb.10th to Mar.2nd, please do not send us any e-mail until after our return. Thank you. --Avi & Batsheva Livney

----- Original Message ----- From: "HABONET automatic digest system" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2005 7:00 AM Subject: HABONET Digest - 24 Jan 2005 to 25 Jan 2005 (#2005-26) [...] 12242 20 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 15:02:39 +0200477_iso-8859-1 Moshe, what I said to Avi goes here, too. My kids have the OPTION to live in the States, and with the post 9/11 realities, a US passport is a good thing to have. Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12263 36 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 15:13:18 +0200574_iso-8859-1 Sorry, Moshe, I hit the send button before I was finished..... As for your living on your pension after the kibbutz turned into an ex-kibbutz, you are lucky to have a pension. Many kibbutzim either don't have or are sorry today that they used their pension funds for ill-advised investments (and lost them). I have a friend at an ex-kibbutz who, due to the lack of a pension fund, is the full time guard, night after night, and that's not easy when you're 71 years old. His alternative is to starve. The government does not recognize kibbutz people like the [...] 12300 19 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 15:52:24 +0200461_iso-8859-1 Avi - I said "have the option of choosing life in the goldina medina". They also have the option of living in Tel Aviv or Shanghai or Rio, too. --Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 12320 50 45_Historic Hebrew newspaper Site/in Hebrew only11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 09:21:53 -0600475_us-ascii The Jewish National and University Library, David and Fela Shapell Family Digitization Project, is pleased to announce the addition of a fifth title to its Historic Hebrew Newspapers website: the newspaper Hameliz (Odessa and St. Petersburg, 1860-1904)

Hameliz, edited initially by Alexander Zederbaum and later by the poet Yehuda Leib Gordon, was the organ of the Russian maskilim and early 'Hoveve Tsiyon' such as Ahad Ha-Am and Moshe Leib Lilienblum. [...] 12371 74 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:52:44 +0200609_iso-8859-1 Kibbut Samar (in the Arava), home to Habonim graduates Charlotte Levy, Eileen Moskowitz, and formerly to Brian Medwed z"l, is an interesting (and excessively groovy) kibbutz that is at once highly individualistic and highly communal. There is an open kupah, and no sadran avodah! It is still a 'first generation' project - many of the members are bnei meshek from veteran kibbutzim (Gan Shmuel, for one, is well represented). However, it is at present not showing signs of falling apart. I would even say it's thriving. You can see the individualism in the houses - people take money from the [...] 12446 544 46_[QUAR]Haaretz - Israel News - Article List.jpg14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:42:52 +0200376_windows-1255

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 12991 55 55_shades of things to come (was re: Gezer's Last Tractor)0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 8 Feb 2005 09:27:35 -0800356_us-ascii Dave wrote: >Many kibbutzim either don't have or are sorry >today that they used their pension funds for ill-advised >investments (and lost them). I have a friend at an >ex-kibbutz who, due to the lack of a pension fund, >is the full time guard, night after night, and that's not easy >when you're 71 years old. His alternative is to starve. [...] 13047 70 20_Gezer's Last Tractor15_Nechemia Meyers23_meyers@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 9 Feb 2005 09:40:39 +0200569_windows-1255 I was deeply saddened by Dave Holtzer's letter, and by his sense of betrayal, though I understand why he feels as he does. The Israel they told us about in the Movement is indeed not the Israel in which we live, and where the kibbutz is concerned, the gap between vision and reality is even greater. So what do we do about it? I would guess that a majority of Habonim olim did indeed become disillusioned and returned to North America. But there are hundreds (or more likely thousands) who--if they became fed up with the kibbutz--moved to an Israeli [...] 13118 93 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 9 Feb 2005 07:37:21 -0500547_us-ascii I am no expert on Gezer, having only visited a couple of times. However, I do go stay at Mevo Chama rather often and have observed the incredible changes there over the past 30 years. As someone who has put a great deal of thought and effort into making congregational communities work here in the US, one of the things that strikes me is that as the economic ties fell apart some (many?) kibbutzim did little or nothing to continue the community ties. For example, in a community in the US, I would think that a basic first step to [...] 13212 68 22_FW: Bushism of the day0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Wed, 9 Feb 2005 14:13:01 +0000895_-



-------------- Forwarded Message: -------------- From: "Norman Handwerger" To: tkamens@msn.com, cechance@hotmail.com, cgordon@boldhaus.com, jskove@las.ch, funk_wrench@yahoo.com, jon@markskatz.com, michael.anft@verizon.net, nhart2@bcps.org, carnvlkid@aol.com, rwheelerlww@hotmail.com, rdsmith1957@comcast.net, SKnarr@aol.com, sfradkin@dhmh.state.md.us, zueban@hotmail.com Subject: Bushism of the day Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:48:03 +0000

"Because the—all which is on the table begins to address the big cost drivers. For example, how benefits are calculate, for example, is on the table; whether or not benefits rise based upon wage increases or price increases. There's a series of parts of the formula that are being considered. And when you couple that, those different cost drivers, affecting those—changing those with personal accounts, [...] 13281 187 22_Re: Bushism of the day13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:07:33 +0200399_iso-8859-1 living in Israel, and knowing that that is what is done here, it makes perfect sense, especially after reading it twice. If you can come up with a better system than that which they are considering, well .... t'fahdel! pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: FW: Bushism of the day [...] 13469 114 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM30_Wed, 9 Feb 2005 12:23:46 -0800606_us-ascii I too was saddened by David's letter, but am amazed at the fatc that, despite the "privatization" of many kibbutzim, there still remains some kind of communal spiritin these locations....This is such a heart-felt topic....Most of my childhood and teen years were spent being educated towards aliyah to kibbutz. When "life's realities" started to set in personally, the choices I made and subsequent "reactions" have led me on a certain path, but I always thought, somewhere in the back recesses of my dreams, that I would end up playing the chalil on the giva at Gesher Haziv. When I visited [...] 13584 46 22_Re: Bushism of the day12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:35:07 -0500 13631 113 22_Re: Bushism of the day0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 03:05:51 +0000556_- I am assuming you are joking. There is no way anyone can understand this since it makes no sense at all.

-------------- Original message --------------

living in Israel, and knowing that that is what is done here, it makes perfect sense, especially after reading it twice. If you can come up with a better system than that which they are considering, well .... t'fahdel! pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: FW: Bushism of the day [...] 13745 119 22_Re: Bushism of the day16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:39:32 -0500550_ISO-8859-15

> living in Israel, and knowing that that is what is done here, it > makes perfect sense, especially after reading it twice. > If you can come up with a better system than that which they are > considering, well .... t'fahdel! > pearl > A better system is 1) to pay back to the Soc Sec System the money that the US government has been borrowing 2) make consistant assumptions about growth--if everyone is leaving the labor mkt to retire and thus can't pay into soc security how the hell is the US stock mkt going to continue [...] 13865 175 24_Re: Gezer's Last Tractor13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:37:23 +0200606_iso-8859-1 To Judidh Gelman Many years ago, when the kibbutz was really a kibbutz, tourists and other visitors would appear from time to time. They asked many questions but many were wondered what happened to all the people who come out and do the hora. Why isn't anyone dancing? The picture they received from the Movement, travel agents etc. was a dynamic young collective community where women walked around with the shortest of shorts and men showed their brawn and all were smiling, happy and dancing. Of course the reality is that kibbutz members enjoyed their recreation and their families but [...] 14041 55 35_Glad my children have U S passports8_stangold21_stangold@INTER.NET.IL31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 10:51:56 +0200522_iso-8859-1 David HOLTZER wrote recently that he was happy that his children have American Passports and therefore they are not stuck in Israel as he is. Was he born in the States or were his children born in the states ???

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 14097 33 29_Colette Avital speaking in NY0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:30:55 -0500411_iso-8859-1 If you are in NY, please take a look below:

The Labor Zionist Alliance and Meretz USA cordially invite you to Lunch with Labor MK Collette Avital who will speak on:

A New Coalition: The role of the Labor Party in the government and steps to peace.

Thursday, February 17th at 12:30 PM Beit Shalom Conference Room 114 West 26th Street (between 6th and 7th Avenues) 10th floor [...] 14131 164 6_Globes16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 12:29:01 -0500536_us-ascii http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/printWindow.asp?did=876022&fid=980





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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 14296 281 22_Re: Bushism of the day13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:04:52 +0200349_iso-8859-1 read it again rdsmith. I understood it perfectly. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 5:05 AM Subject: Re: Bushism of the day



I am assuming you are joking. There is no way anyone can understand this since it makes no sense at all. [...] 14578 141 58_Fwd: Re: Kumsitz Coming Up in Yerushalayim - Save the Date0_13_SC523@AOL.COM31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 20:00:33 -0500445_iso-8859-1 Hope to see lots of people on Sat. night.

See info below - Aliya

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 14720 45 33_Re: Colette Avital speaking in NY0_18_normk@ADELPHIA.NET31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:10:19 -0500356_utf-8 Perhaps in the future we could look into webcasting or video taping meeting like this for those of us who work or aren't in New York?

Norm ---- KBob24@AOL.COM wrote: If you are in NY, please take a look below:

The Labor Zionist Alliance and Meretz USA cordially invite you to Lunch with Labor MK Collette Avital who will speak on: [...] 14766 22 33_Re: Colette Avital speaking in NY0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 10 Feb 2005 23:45:02 -0500569_iso-8859-1 >>Perhaps in the future we could look into webcasting or >>video taping meeting like this for those of us who work or >>aren't in New York?

Yep, it is a good idea and already on the "to do" list for the Ameinu programming folks. Stay tuned!

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 14789 21 53_Re: Kumsitz Coming Up in Yerushalayim - Save the Date12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 08:25:27 +0200464_iso-8859-1 So I should hope it DOESN'T snow in Jerusalem on Shabbat?? Oi, what a choice!

Trudy

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 14811 774 18_Middle East News I5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 14:12:26 -0800678_iso-8859-1 Subject: The NEWS from ISRAEL on Friday, February 11, 2005 and 2 Adar 1st, 5765



The NEWS from ISRAEL

Lantos, Kissinger Link U.S. Aid to PA with Contributions from Arab "Deadbeats" - Barry Schweid

Rep. Tom Lantos, the senior Democrat on the House International Relations Committee, said Thursday he would condition U.S. aid to the Palestinians on oil-rich Arab "deadbeats" making good on their own promised contributions. The assertion drew swift endorsement from former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who said, "I think it is reasonable that the surrounding Arab states that have resources should at least match U.S. support.'' [...] 15586 282 12_Paul Krugman0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:00:43 EST329_US-ASCII I thought that this article by Paul Krugman was so important that I would pass it on. It is worthwhile to know that not only is Paul Krugman Jewish and a professor of economics at Princeton, but I think he shares our basic movement values. He really lays things out in this little op-ed from today's New York Times [...] 15869 159 24_Re: Healthcare in the US11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:29:53 -0800377_US-ASCII Unfortunately, free clinics are unable to help those of us who are on, as it's often called, catastrophic health care. And I feel comfortable writing that many of us are already in support of the progressive health care initiatives. Unfortunately, the fight is up hill and will be a long and tough one. Until we get there, times will be difficult for many of us. [...] 16029 88 35_Fw: World Renown Speakers--Feb 23rd5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:25:29 -0800523_iso-8859-1 To all of us in the LA area.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:23 PM Subject: Fw: World Renown Speakers--Feb 23rd









Are you interested in knowing the future? Would you like to learn from the very most knowledgeable scholars and authors on Islam, its tenets and history? Come prepared to leave with eyes wide, wide open. I strongly urge you not to miss this one. It will be a debunker! Don [...] 16118 248 28_Fw: a view in Czech Republic5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 09:41:28 -0800644_iso-8859-1 Need to know.

Betty



----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 9:26 AM Subject: Fw: a view in Czech Republic









Flourishing



by David on February 6, 2005 09:02AM (IST)





Make no mistake about it: anti-Semitism is flourishing.





Up until fairly recently, the European nations had been more or less low-key when it came to expressing their feelings about Jews. Sure, many had still harbored the usual ill feelings towards Jews, but it had not been acceptable to voice them. [...] 16367 49 50_Rabbi Yoffe on COnfronting Extremists in Our Midst16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 13:47:49 -0500427_us-ascii

http://www.forward.com/main/article.php?id=2691

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 16417 236 24_Re: Healthcare in the US12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 11:23:16 -0800535_us-ascii That is what is so absurd about the whole thing--I can't even get catastrophic coverage--so I am going to Social Servies to see if I can get disability....so it will cost the government more....There are a few initiatives in the legislature--but I fear this admin doesn't really give a ^%#$#@%....the uproar needs to come from the people, and it needs to keep going.....I am shiocked that AARP isn't really doing much except pushing its own supplemental insurance...sue --- Batel Libes wrote: [...] 16654 73 17_re yoffee article13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:27:20 +0200603_windows-1255 the article by e.yoffee that judy sent speaks about the democratic government of Israel, however, there is today a definite question of whether it indeed is a democratic government.

1. Sharon was elected on one platform, but is carrying out the platform of the Labour Party. 2. Sharon agreed to a Likud referendum regarding disengagement, but when he lost he simply disregarded the referendum of his own party. 3. Sharon fired his own ministers because they did not agree to his program, and is now dependent upon the votes of the Left and Arabs to put through his plans, which [...] 16728 3369 37_Nahalal Anti-Disengagement Conference13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:40:59 +0200359_windows-1255 IsraelNationalNews.com I think that as Labour Zionists it is of most interest to read the news item below about kibbutzim and moshavim against the disengagement. It is interesting at any rate to hear both sides of the issue and to learn that it is not a religious vs a secular public, but an interest of the Jewish People. shavua tov, pearl [...] 20098 323 21_Re: re yoffee article11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 14:46:20 -0800517_us-ascii So, is the problem here that Sharon is not following the platform he was elected on, or is it really that the platform he is pursuing a platform you do not like? For the sake of discussion, what if the platforms were turned around?





Batel





-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Pearl Skolnik Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 2:27 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: re yoffee article [...] 20422 28 21_Re: re yoffee article12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:47:16 -0500 20451 242 21_Re: re yoffee article13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 00:58:54 +0200498_iso-8859-1 i don't deal with "what if's," i wrote about what is. has nothing to do with what I believe or do not believe. Those of us who knew Sharon before he became PM do not understand what happened to him -- people who know him longer, closer and better than I ever did -- can not comprehend him today. They are shocked at his turn-around. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Batel Libes To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:46 AM Subject: Re: re yoffee article [...] 20694 101 8_to DAvid13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 01:01:58 +0200503_iso-8859-1 who is disenfranchised here? All Jews and Arabs have a right to vote here. Arab women were allowed to vote here long before any Arab country ever allowed women to vote. Most Arab countries still do not allow women to vote. So, to whom exactly are you referring? it is interesting that the points originally made are not challenged....... pps. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Fleiss To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 12:47 AM Subject: Re: re yoffee article [...] 20796 63 21_Re: re yoffee article0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 18:12:58 EST513_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/12/2005 6:00:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

They are shocked at his turn-around. pearl ''



Some of us are shocked and delighted.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 20860 85 21_Re: re yoffee article0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:40:54 +0000287_- Pearl,

So often, when the Israeli govenrment has done something that we (those of us that tend to disagree with you) don't like you have said that you have faith the people in the government have good reason for doing what they are doing. I guess you have lost that faith. [...] 20946 248 21_Re: re yoffee article11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 17:12:32 -0800572_US-ASCII "They are shocked at his turn-around"





Turn-arounds allow peace to happen, sticking to your guns, well, that says it in itself. . .













-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@AOL.COM Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 3:13 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: re yoffee article





In a message dated 2/12/2005 6:00:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes: [...] 21195 32 12_Re: to DAvid12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:25:19 -0500373_us-ascii >who is disenfranchised here? All Jews and Arabs have a right to vote >here. Arab women were allowed to vote here long before any Arab country >ever allowed women to vote. Most Arab countries still do not allow women >to vote. So, to whom exactly are you referring?

I am referring to the Palestinians, unless Sharon has granted them the right to vote. [...] 21228 29 21_Re: re yoffee article0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:02:12 EST439_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/12/05 6:00:11 PM, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

<< i don't deal with "what if's," i wrote about what is. has nothing to do with what I believe or do not believe. Those of us who knew Sharon before he became PM do not understand what happened to him -- people who know him longer, closer and better than I ever did -- can not comprehend him today. They are shocked at his turn-around. pearl >> [...] 21258 107 21_Re: re yoffee article16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:29:14 -0500590_us-ascii Has anyone else read the new memoir by Amos Oz? I think his description of Begin through his own eyes as a 12 year old ardent Herut nationalist will stick with me always, as will his description of strange encounter with Ben Gurion 8 years later. Judy



Ohanka@AOL.COM wrote:

>In a message dated 2/12/05 6:00:11 PM, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes: > ><< i don't deal with "what if's," i wrote about what is. has nothing to do >with what I believe or do not believe. Those of us who knew Sharon before he >became PM do not understand what happened to him [...] 21366 26 12_Re: to DAvid0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:29:36 -0500604_iso-8859-1 >>With respect to the Arab citizens of Israel: Yes, they can >>vote. Yes, their women can vote. But their votes are an >>exercise in futility since the Arab MKs are treated as >>pariahs by both Labour and Likud.

David:

I understand the sentiment behind your statement, but things just are not that black and white. First of all, there are often Arab MKs from the major parties. Secondly, there are better relations with the Arab parties than you might think. The Labor in the past has indeed relied on their support to survive no-confidence votes. Just last week, I believe [...] 21393 31 24_History Lesson on Sharon0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 12 Feb 2005 23:36:53 -0500475_iso-8859-1 Pearl wrote: >>people who know him longer, closer and better than I ever >>did -- can not comprehend him today.

This is certainly true, but Sharon watchers will point a number of things about his past:

1) He was never a revisionist and was surrounded by Labor types in his youth.

2) When he decided to jump into politics, he started a party called Shlomzion and asked Yossi Sarid (then of Labor, now of Yachad) to lead the list with him. [...] 21425 202 21_Re: re yoffee article11_lewis levin19_lyaron@INTER.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 18:27:38 +0200448_windows-1255 1) LBJ once said to the effect that you can’t run a government by popular opinion.

2) It was once said here (in Israel) that a coalition agreement (or a political platform for that fact) is like a signature on a block of ice.

3) I don’t remember any national referendum when the settlements were set up in the West bank and Gaza (Pearl maybe you can refresh my memory), so way should there be one to dismantle them? [...] 21628 146 21_Re: re yoffee article11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 08:47:01 -0800450_US-ASCII



i don't deal with "what if's," i wrote about what is.





And I said for the sake of discussion. Discussions are built on "what if's."

_____

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network , a service of Hebrew College , which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies . [...] 21775 34 21_No Mullah Left Behind11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 10:53:39 -0700674_us-ascii Thomas Friedman makes some good points about the Bushmen and their lunacy. Read the whole article at http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/13/opinion/13friedman.html?th Better late than never? Why did purportedly smart people support stupid policies? Where's Leon Czolgosz when we need him?

By adamantly refusing to do anything to improve energy conservation in America, or to phase in a $1-a-gallon gasoline tax on American drivers, or to demand increased mileage from Detroit's automakers, or to develop a crash program for renewable sources of energy, the Bush team is - as others have noted - financing both sides of the war on terrorism. We are financing [...] 21810 36 12_Re: to DAvid12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:05:30 -0500565_us-ascii >I understand the sentiment behind your statement, but things just are not >that black and white. First of all, there are often Arab MKs from the >major parties. Secondly, there are better relations with the Arab parties >than you might think. The Labor in the past has indeed relied on their >support to survive no-confidence votes. Just last week, I believe it was >the budget committee that sent a law to Knesset floor for a vote by a >margin of one. When a Likudnik pointed that it was due to an Arab vote >that it passed, Labor MKs condemned the [...] 21847 28 12_Re: to DAvid0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 13:19:28 -0500364_iso-8859-1 >>By the way, how many times have any of the Arab parties >>been invited to join a coalition government?

Rhetorical question, right :-)?

You are correct here and the left has been no better than the right in this regard.It might also be political suicide (maybe physical, too) for an Arab party to join a government, even if invited. [...] 21876 55 12_Re: to DAvid13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:33:26 +0200586_iso-8859-1 the Arabs in the disputed territories have the right to vote for their own leaders and they do vote. They are not disenfranchised. It would hardly be fair to them to have them vote for Jewish parties in Israel. They must be allowed to choose their own leadership, which they do. Some of the Arabs in the Knesset are not exactly the most loyal of Israeli citizens if one is to believe what they say and do. ps ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" To: Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 3:25 AM Subject: Re: to DAvid [...] 21932 77 12_Re: to DAvid0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 14:39:14 EST372_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/13/2005 2:34:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

Some of the Arabs in the Knesset are not exactly the most loyal of Israeli citizens if one is to believe what they say and do.

Some of the Dati parties in the Keneset are not the most loyal of Israelis if one is to believe what they say and do. [...] 22010 79 12_Re: to DAvid13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 22:04:47 +0200344_iso-8859-1 Pearl, why don't you call a spade a spade. Many of the Arab MK's are not exactly the most loyal to the state but I would call them a FIFTH COLOUMN.

Moshe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pearl Skolnik" To: Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 9:33 PM Subject: Re: to DAvid [...] 22090 117 12_Re: to DAvid13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 23:10:43 +0200427_iso-8859-1 sam, you have gone too far. completely uncalled for comment, a lie, a falsehood, misrepresentation of any truth. Do you have no shame? I can only feel shame for you -- that you are ready to defame Jews in such unseemly manner as you do. I am sorely disappointed in you, and do not understand how you can still call yourself a product of a zionist movement. You seem to be motivated only by bitterness and hate. [...] 22208 126 12_Re: to DAvid0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 21:47:44 +0000510_- My god, is the pot calling the kettle black??? The right wingers who are calling for resistence against the IDF when settlements are evacuated are loyal? The ones calling for and accepting of assassinations are loyal?? People who claim that the Israeli government is anti-democratic are loyal??

BTW- Here are some examples (without any investigation, simply from the top of my head) from history of political leaders doing things when in office which seem opposed to what was in their platforms: [...] 22335 76 12_Re: to DAvid0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 13 Feb 2005 20:44:55 EST472_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/13/2005 4:11:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:

am sorely disappointed in you, and do not understand how you can still call yourself a product of a zionist movement.

Go know. And I still consider myself a Zionist and what is even worse my kid is taking over Chinuch for rather large Zionist youth movement and we pretty much see eye to eye. Just goes to show you how strange the world can be. [...] 22412 93 3_sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 08:24:12 +0200506_iso-8859-1 haShem ya'azor.





In a message dated 2/13/2005 4:11:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL writes: am sorely disappointed in you, and do not understand how you can still call yourself a product of a zionist movement.

Go know. And I still consider myself a Zionist and what is even worse my kid is taking over Chinuch for rather large Zionist youth movement and we pretty much see eye to eye. Just goes to show you how strange the world can be. [...] 22506 397 29_Fw: Fwd: FAMFA / from rutheov5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 02:51:53 -0800359_windows-1255 How scary does it have to get?!

Betty

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22904 20 7_Re: sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 16:46:57 -0500547_iso-8859-1 Ha shem be emet ozer. I am thinking about ha shem all the time. I was wondering whether to post my new poem about G-D. People seem to like it and it helps to understand the strange and twisted spirituality of a Labor Zionist.

Sam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 22925 48 7_Re: sam12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 14:43:55 -0800637_us-ascii Nu?? Where is it????--sue :)

--- Smfgrappa@AOL.COM wrote:

> Ha shem be emet ozer. I am thinking about ha shem > all the time. I was wondering whether to post my new > poem about G-D. People seem to like it and it helps > to understand the strange and twisted spirituality > of a Labor Zionist. > > Sam > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > [...] 22974 41 7_Re: sam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 00:56:10 +0200667_iso-8859-1 ..."helps to understand the strange and twisted spirituality of a Labor Zionist...." Well, I am not surprised at the description. Do send it. pps ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:46 PM Subject: Re: sam



> Ha shem be emet ozer. I am thinking about ha shem all the time. I was wondering whether to post my new poem about G-D. People seem to like it and it helps to understand the strange and twisted spirituality of a Labor Zionist. > > Sam > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted [...] 23016 164 11_God is More0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:26:57 EST375_US-ASCII

God Is More Word by Sam Flesher Music is kind of in progress but almost finished Special thanks to my son Amir Flesher for his special philosophical and spiritual insight. ( the political implications of the song are hidden deep inside the lyric while the spiritual implications of the lyric are something I have not yet grasped myself ) Copyright 2005 [...] 23181 56 7_Re: sam0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:28:54 EST440_US-ASCII Pearl

I posted my lyric under the heading "God is More" I hope you enjoy it. I will go now to practice the music.

Sam

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 23238 72 40_Birthright Trip for Progressive Zionists0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 02:06:24 -0500593_iso-8859-1 The director of the Union of Progressive Zionists asked me to post this. If you have kids, grandchildren or friends of the family who qualify, this is a FREE trip to Israel with a progressive Zionist orientation.

Ken -----------------

Howdy Folks: We need your help. We have the chance to run a UPZ Birthright Israel trip at the beginning of the summer. In order to get the trip, though, we have to demonstrate that we have a critical mass of people seriously interested in the trip. This is a really incredible opportunity for us. One of the unique things about [...] 23311 52 25_Re: No Mullah Left Behind0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:29:08 -0800534_us-ascii Phil quoted Thomas Friedman saying "We are financing the U.S. armed forces with our tax dollars, and, through our profligate use of energy, we are generating huge windfall profits for Saudi Arabia, Iran and Sudan, where the cash is used to insulate the regimes from any pressure to open up their economies, liberate their women or modernize their schools, and where it ends up instead financing madrassas, mosques and militants fundamentally opposed to the progressive, pluralistic agenda America is trying to promote." [...] 23364 175 113_Fw: Event-in LA- Radical Islam=?iso-8859-1?Q?=B9s?= Penetration of Western Civilization Wed. Feb.23, 2005 7.00 pm5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:21:36 -0800422_iso-8859-1 Event-in LA- Radical Islam's Penetration of Western Civilization Wed. Feb.23, 2005 7.00 pm ----- Original Message ----- From: Nava Skolnik To: active4israel@socal.rr.com Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:51 AM Subject: Event-in LA- Radical Islam¹s Penetration of Western Civilization Wed. Feb.23, 2005 7.00 pm





The Israel Christian Nexus invites you to a compelling panel discussion [...] 23540 81 26_Fw: New source of funding!5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:03:38 -0800612_iso-8859-1 Good factuals to have at hand.

Betty









----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:28 PM Subject: Fw: New source of funding!







http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005055.php





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 23622 251 113_Re: Event-in LA- Radical Islam=?iso-8859-1?Q?=B9s?= Penetration of Western Civilization Wed. Feb.23, 2005 7.00 pm13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:08:10 +0200550_iso-8859-1 Event-in LA- Radical Islam's Penetration of Western Civilization Wed. Feb.23, 2005 7.00 pmRaphael Yisraeli, who is part of the forum of the symposium below, is a professor of Islamic history in the Hebrew University. I have not spoken to him for at least 5 years, but last time he spoke to a group I was part of I found him very very pessimistic about the future of Arab/Jewish relations. I was so disturbed by what he had to say, that I asked him "Can't you give us any hope?" He answered: "I am not in the business of giving hope." [...] 23874 399 18_Fw: Joseph Kennedy5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 12:17:12 -0800560_iso-8859-1

If this is not of interest to us on the net, I don't know what is.

Betty



When I was in college 1956 I read the book "The Plot Against The Peace" and learned of Kennedy's Nazi commitment which ultimately got him fired as Ambassador to England by Roosevelt. There was a paragraph of text in the book and his name was in the index. Years later I sought a copy from the library in Ridgecrest 1992. They found one copy in the Calif system and when I received it Kennedy's name had accidently been left in the index but [...] 24274 76 22_Re: Fw: Joseph Kennedy0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 15:38:58 EST588_US-ASCII

Hmmmm....so why exactly is this of such interest? What's the point of sending this? This is hardly 'new' information. Puzzled.

mm



If this is not of interest to us on the net, I don't know what is.

Betty











------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 24351 127 25_Re: No Mullah Left Behind16_Sharon Weissbach12_sw@IGLOU.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 16:30:45 -0800710_iso-8859-1 Where did you get the bumper sticker? -----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG]On Behalf Of Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 8:29 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: No Mullah Left Behind





Phil quoted Thomas Friedman saying "We are financing the U.S. armed forces with our tax dollars, and, through our profligate use of energy, we are generating huge windfall profits for Saudi Arabia, Iran and Sudan, where the cash is used to insulate the regimes from any pressure to open up their economies, liberate their women or modernize their schools, and where it ends up instead financing [...] 24479 131 25_Re: No Mullah Left Behind0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 13:53:07 -0800421_us-ascii www.democracymeansyou.com

I often have trouble placing an order through their web site, so you may need to be persistent if you want to buy something from them. I had one of their "Bush, Chaney, Ashcroft: The Real Axis of Evil" stickers on my old car, and I got such hostile reactions from people around me that I had to take it off. I figured I didn't need all that negative energy directed my way. [...] 24611 385 25_Re: No Mullah Left Behind16_Sharon Weissbach12_sw@IGLOU.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:19:10 -0800532_iso-8859-1 Did you see their Busharon sticker (dripping with blood)? That makes me hesitant to support the site (even though I really want that bumper sticker -- not that I am a Sharon fan, but still). They have another one which is the Israeli flag with a peace symbol in the middle -- that might be OK but I can think of some way in which it too could have an anti-Israel overtone if it implies the Star on the flag needs to be replaced. Who would think that it would be so hard just to order a bumper sticker. -----Original [...] 24997 38 14_bumper stinker11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Tue, 15 Feb 2005 22:40:43 -0700363_us-ascii I have a bumper sticker that only has 2 letters: F W

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25036 168 44_Natl LGBT Pride in Israel Mission 8/14-21/0516_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:00:54 -0500700_us-ascii Please forward this to people you know who may be interested. Judy Gelman

Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:55:46 -0500

>From: Rabbi Shawn Zevit >Subject: Natl LGBT Pride in Israel Mission 8/14-21/05 > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > > >United Jewish Communities (UJC) sponsored=20 >National LGBT Pride in Israel Mission: August 14-21, 2005=20 >This new UJC mission will address specific interests of the Lesbian, = >Gay, Bi-sexual and Transgender (LGBT) community, while also providing = >participants with the unique UJC Missions experience, education and = >community building. Special Rabbi-in-residence Rabbi Steven Greenberg = >(biography [...] 25205 208 20_Fw: Kosher Computers5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 09:33:22 -0800520_iso-8859-1 At last; a Jewish alternative!

Betty



----- Original Message ----- From: Wendy To: Donna Lucky ; egordin@framedmemory.com Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: Kosher Computers



Kosher Computers

I don't know if you know this, but you can now purchase kosher computers! They are made in Israel by a company called DELL-SHALOM. The price is great, even with the shipping from Israel. I've been using one now for several weeks and highly recommend it. [...] 25414 107 59_Fw: Condi proposes pension fund for "retired terrorists"!!!5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:09:01 -0800470_iso-8859-1

I am hoping this is not true. Paying off terrorists has got to be the dumbest of the worst ideas in the pantheon of bad ideas. What is Condi's e-mail address?

Betty

16, 2005 9:33 AM Subject: Fw: Condi proposes pension fund for "retired terrorists"!!!





----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:25 AM Subject: Condi proposes pension fund for "retired terrorists"!!! [...] 25522 141 40_Fw: MUST LISTEN: Israeli Pop Star on NPR5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:10:02 -0800652_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 9:28 AM Subject: Fw: MUST LISTEN: Israeli Pop Star on NPR







Friends, As you know, NPR leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to covering Israel and the Mideast conflict but this morning it managed to do a story that has very little to do with the conflict and it was refreshing to hear. And it was well done. I recommend listening to the program (see below) http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4501255 and if you feel like I did, then invitations should go out to have him perform everywhere in [...] 25664 186 40_Re: MUST LISTEN: Israeli Pop Star on NPR14_aviva grosbard18_deang@BEZEQINT.NET31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 20:32:54 +0200378_iso-8859-1 Dont know who you are Steve-but thanks for sharing that one-Idan Reichel has done a great job and even without knowing all the background-I always liked his stuff-and he has the cutest dreadlocks:) Aviva ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: Fw: MUST LISTEN: Israeli Pop Star on NPR [...] 25851 41 44_Re: Fw: MUST LISTEN: Israeli Pop Star on NPR0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 21:43:54 +0000535_- Friends, As you know, NPR leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to covering Israel and the Mideast conflict

This translates to: as you know, NPR actually reports on things that doesn't always show Israel in the greatest of light.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 25893 52 17_Re: Aiden Reichel12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:37:35 -0800410_us-ascii Last Saturday nioght, I went to the concert here in LA--and I have to say, it was one of the most amazing experiences I ever had at a concert. The performers were incredible, and afterwards, they attended a party given by my boss--who helped sponsor their appearance here in LA..Anyone who has a chance to see them- GO!!!!! You won't be sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!--sue --- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: [...] 25946 332 17_from the NY Times13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:49:10 +0200631_windows-1255 February 16, 2005 OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR Clear Skies, No Lies By Gregg Easterbrook

ashington

SUPPOSE Al Gore had become president and proposed a law to cut pollution from power plants by about 70 percent at a low cost, to discourage the lawsuits that often stall clean-air rules from being enforced, and to serve as a model for a future system to regulate greenhouse gases. Chances are Mr. Gore would have been widely praised. Instead George W. Bush got the White House and announced a plan to do those very things, yet it has been relentlessly denounced by Democrats, environmentalists, editorial pages [...] 26279 119 9_Hizbullah13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 17 Feb 2005 16:20:20 +0200504_windows-1255 Jewish World Review Feb. 17, 2005 / 8 Adar I, 5765

Hezbollah: The terrorist threat on the horizon

By George Friedman



As the maneuvering over Iraq continues, the Iranians and the Syrians made an interesting move. They have renewed an old alliance, which dates back to the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s. Iranian Vice President Mohammad Reza Aref met with Syrian Prime Minister Naji al-Otariand on Feb. 16 and declared a "common front" against the United States. [...] 26399 20 23_Idan Raichel's homepage11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 17 Feb 2005 10:26:28 -0600542_us-ascii http://www.idanraichelproject.com/en/

You can see video clips and hear music clips as well as read his biography. -------------------------------------------------

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 26420 23 13_Re: Hizbullah0_18_DLerner569@AOL.COM31_Thu, 17 Feb 2005 15:37:29 -0500300_iso-8859-1 Dear Jon, The article makes a number of interesting points. One it does not make is that the common front of Syria and Iran can be interpreted as a national threat to the US that if it invades Syria (always bubbling near the top of the neo-con agenda)Iran will join forces to resist. [...] 26444 55 13_from Ha'aretz13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 08:06:29 +0200467_windows-1255 Insightful article about the Mossad:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/541717.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 26500 211 25_Re: No Mullah Left Behind0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 09:12:12 -0800426_us-ascii Some of the Democracy Means You stuff is a bit over the top, IMHO. If I only shopped where I agreed with 100% of the opinions of the seller, I'd save a lot of money. Personally, I really like the Israeli peace flag sticker. My rabbi made a positive comment about the one on my car (when my husband was driving the car), and I just ordered a bunch of copies to give to him and some other people at the synagogue. [...] 26712 61 17_Re: Aiden Reichel16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@MINDSPRING.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 10:08:22 -0800553_us-ascii Sue Liberman wrote:

> Last Saturday nioght, I went to the concert here in > LA--and I have to say, it was one of the most amazing > experiences I ever had at a concert. The performers > were incredible, and afterwards, they attended a party > given by my boss--who helped sponsor their appearance > here in LA..Anyone who has a chance to see them- > GO!!!!! You won't be sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!--sue > --- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: > > > Friends, > > As you know, NPR leaves a lot to be desired when it > > comes to covering Israel [...] 26774 40 45_New Email Address - Benjaminladen@comcast.net0_29_benjamin_laden@PEOPLESOFT.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:38:20 -0500308_us-ascii Hi there,

Most of you know that I work for PeopleSoft and we were acquired by Oracle. I am getting an Oracle email address, but I have concerns that Oracle may not be as 'cool' as PeopleSoft was when it comes to employees mixing a little personal email into their business email system. [...] 26815 519 12_Fw: Einstein5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 18 Feb 2005 14:51:44 -0800683_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: Steve Klein Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 2:48 PM Subject: Einstein







Interesting article. I did not know of this:

Betty





Einstein's Other Theory - Benny Morris In 1947 Zionist leaders asked Albert Einstein to help persuade a skeptical India to support the birth of a Jewish state. Einstein's four-page letter to Jawaharlal Nehru of June 13, 1947, focused on moral and historical arguments and appealed for "the rights of an ancient people whose roots are in the East." "Can Jewish need, no matter how acute, be met without the infringement of the vital [...] 27335 57 8_Intifada13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:55:07 +0200498_windows-1255 This is almost too good to be true:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5FFE0143-9BE7-4209-B3AA-7726208C8141.htm

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 27393 83 15_Fw: Anti Semite5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:31:49 -0800606_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Esq8Ton@aol.com To: zebra07@comcast.net ; joyce@jc88.cc ; Kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 1:36 AM Subject: Anti Semite



I DON"T KNOW IF YOU SAW THIS

Betty

http://198.173.255.220/pipeline_of_hatred.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 27477 387 40_Fw: The Emerging 'Eurabia' by Diana West5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:45:23 -0800941_iso-8859-1 Frightening but important to read and send onward.

Betty



----- Original Message ----- From: joyce@jc88.cc Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:23 PM Subject: The Emerging 'Eurabia' by Diana West





--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Washington Times www.washingtontimes.com



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The emerging 'Eurabia' By Diana West Published February 18, 2005

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- It was just a coincidence that "Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis" appeared in the mail the same day a New York Times article on the subject of Eurabia landed on the doorstep. "Eurabia," the long-awaited book by Bat Ye'or, is a comprehensive, even overwhelming and absolutely shocking explication of how and why it is that [...] 27865 55 19_Re: Fw: Anti Semite16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:18:27 -0500352_iso-8859-1 I saw this before because it was on Habonet before and I think you were the one who sent it, Steve. We get enough of this drivel without needing to get it TWICE. Judy

Original Message: ----------------- From: Steve kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:31:49 -0800 To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: Anti Semite [...] 27921 38 44_Re: Fw: The Emerging 'Eurabia' by Diana West16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:35:26 -0500517_iso-8859-1 Dear Steve,

Does your friend Betty maintain a mailing lits beyond the people she knows personally? If so, could you tell those who are interested how to sign up?

If Betty qualifies to be a member of Habonet, I am sure we would all welcome her to express her views here. If not, I personally prefer not to get forwareded copies of so many of her postings, in part because there is no possibility of dialogue with her about why she picks what she does nor what she sees in these articles. [...] 27960 173 21_Re: re yoffee article5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 10:48:56 -0800303_iso-8859-1 David

Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on this one. It has been a very busy time. I noticed all the supportive letters from several of "the group" following your letter, explaining that "what David must have meant" was the West Bank, the "occupied territories", etc. [...] 28134 109 21_Re: re yoffee article0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 14:09:10 EST567_US-ASCII

Steve,

You are truly a pompous fart. Really..I mean that. No apologies except to the list who are subject to your drivel.

marc margolis

You were silent about the matter, and I understand your decision not to fan any more flames on this subject. My own personal opinion is that your friends were looking for a way to give you a pass on this one. You did say, however, and you really meant, however, "the state of Israel". I could be wrong. Lord knows, I have in the past. Just write and say I am wrong, and I will apologise. [...] 28244 80 21_Re: re yoffee article0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 20 Feb 2005 00:07:09 +0000608_- Marc, You are being totally unfair to pompous farts.

Richard

-------------- Original message --------------

Steve,

You are truly a pompous fart. Really..I mean that. No apologies except to the list who are subject to your drivel.

marc margolis You were silent about the matter, and I understand your decision not to fan any more flames on this subject. My own personal opinion is that your friends were looking for a way to give you a pass on this one. You did say, however, and you really meant, however, "the state of Israel". I could be wrong. Lord knows, I have [...] 28325 28 21_Re: re yoffee article16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 19:30:57 -0500297_iso-8859-1 Boys, boys--Could we please stop the name calling and jokes at the expense of others? As I say to my kids, this isn't going to lead anywhere good. So let's all go sit in our own rooms for a little while. You can come out when you can speak nicely to one another again. Mama Gelman [...] 28354 37 21_Re: re yoffee article12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:11:58 -0500309_us-ascii Steve wrote: >David > >Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you on this one.

Why? Had somebody asked you to get back to me?

>You were silent about the matter

Maybe you don't know how to read, Steve, but I responded on 2/12. Check the archive.

>I could be wrong. [...] 28392 86 25_Fw: Dissidence in America5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:57:47 -0800580_iso-8859-1 Must read.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: Steve Klein Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:56 AM Subject: Dissidence in America



Dissident Arab Gets the Treatment By Ahmad Al-Qloushi FrontPageMagazine.com | January 6, 2005

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ 28479 352 25_Re: Dissidence in America11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:02:37 -0800552_US-ASCII Good morning, Steve

Can you, please, let me and others know why we "Must Read" this article?





It would be wonderful if you and others we tell us we Must Read something add a few words why you think members on this list Must Read something.





Batel





-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:58 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: Dissidence in America [...] 28832 419 25_Re: Dissidence in America5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:57:54 -0800345_iso-8859-1 Batel

Thank you for the suggestion.

I can't answer for others when they write "must read", but I will try to answer for the occasions in which I do. Usually, it is for the articles that have to do with survival of a lifestyle, both here and in Israel, that I value highly, and issues that are most important to me. [...] 29252 63 21_Re: re yoffee article5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:03:57 -0800481_iso-8859-1 David

Thank you for your "response"

Steve

PS For the sake of Habonet, please deliver any further of your wisdom on this subject offline. I will be glad to deal with it privately. You can forward anything I choose to respond to whomever you wish offline. Much better idea. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" To: Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 5:11 PM Subject: Re: re yoffee article [...] 29316 218 21_Re: re yoffee article5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 11:06:30 -0800499_iso-8859-1 Marc and Richard

Meet me offline.

Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 4:07 PM Subject: Re: re yoffee article



Marc, You are being totally unfair to pompous farts.

Richard

-------------- Original message --------------

Steve,

You are truly a pompous fart. Really..I mean that. No apologies except to the list who are subject to your drivel. [...] 29535 251 24_Fw: "1942-Style Bigotry"5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 12:09:13 -0800710_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: Steve Klein Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 12:07 PM Subject: Fw: "1942-Style Bigotry"





----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: letters@latimes.com Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 12:30 PM Subject: "1942-Style Bigotry"



Dear Editor

I would like to respond to the letter by Lillian Nakamo (Feb. 19,05), "1942-Style Bigotry Targets Muslims in the U.S. Today". I was born in 1943, and I remember the many discussions after the war about the unfairness of the treatment of America's Japanese citizens. The wrongness of the wholesale internments and the confiscation of property were part of the [...] 29787 193 25_Re: Dissidence in America11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak2@COMCAST.NET31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:50:29 -0500532_iso-8859-1 Dear Steve,

There is really no need for sarcasm here. Batel sent a simple request that you take the time to pen a few lines each time you are forwarding a message explaining why you feel it is interesting or a "must read" to the members of the listserv. That you feel this reasonable request is an invitation to insult those you call "the group" is one of the reasons why you receive so many friendly notes on this forum. Too bad you can't take this sort of response off-line as you just suggested to others. [...] 29981 61 49_Re: New Email Address - Benjaminladen@comcast.net0_19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:50:03 -0500527_ISO-8859-1 hi ben! good to hear from you. my son zak met shiah on mbi, and he was excited when we figured out it was your kid and i knew the dad, etc etc. just hope they don't get into the same trouble we did at that age....

i just came back from the hdna camping assoc weekend--all the camp committee chairs, biz mgrs and other vips of all the machanot meet and pretend to make decisions. you should come. sat night we played whirlybnall--its like a cross btwn lacrosse and basketball, but played in bumper cars!! [...] 30043 55 49_Re: New Email Address - Benjaminladen@comcast.net0_19_lfmarsh@VERIZON.NET31_Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:50:38 -0500560_ISO-8859-1 oops, sorry that was for ben. > > From: benjamin_laden@PEOPLESOFT.COM > Date: 2005/02/18 Fri PM 02:38:20 EST > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Subject: New Email Address - Benjaminladen@comcast.net > > Hi there, > > Most of you know that I work for PeopleSoft and we were acquired by Oracle. > I am getting an Oracle email address, but I have concerns that Oracle may > not be as 'cool' as PeopleSoft was when it comes to employees mixing a > little personal email into their business email system. > > So. I am going to start using a new address as [...] 30099 22 50_Re: Colette Avital speaking in NY - the transcript0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:00:56 -0500318_iso-8859-1 When I posted the announcement about Colette speaking in NY, it was suggested that we do a conference call or webcast in the future. Great idea and we will endeavor to do so. Meanwhile, the next best thing is a transcript of her presentation, so here it is - Labor MK Colette Avital, live in New York! [...] 30122 62 50_Re: Colette Avital speaking in NY - the transcript0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 07:38:23 +0000598_- Thank you Ken.

It is interesting that we are witnessing the most positive developments in the war/peace situation in who-knows-how-long and it seems no one on this list seems interested in talking about it. Perhaps people are afraid to bashri it?

-------------- Original message --------------

> When I posted the announcement about Colette speaking in NY, it was suggested > that we do a conference call or webcast in the future. Great idea and we will > endeavor to do so. Meanwhile, the next best thing is a transcript of her > presentation, so here it is - Labor MK [...] 30185 174 23_Civil war vs Insurgency16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:53:45 -0500320_ISO-8859-15 I found this English excerpt from Maariv very interesting, given all the talk about disengagement plans triggering an impeding "civil war". The author, Eliezer Yaari is exec director of the New Israel Fund. I have heard him speak several times and his ability to grasp and reframe issues is remarkable. [...] 30360 27 18_Fw: HISTORY LESSON5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:07:55 -0800568_iso-8859-1 I hadn't realised that:

> According to the Jewish calendar, the year is 5765. > According to the Chinese calendar, the year is 4702. > That means that for 1,063 years the Jews went without Chinese food. > > These were known as THE DARK AGES. > >Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30388 21 20_Ynet in English, URL11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 15:25:22 -0600497_us-ascii Yediot Achronot has just come out with an English version of YNET. The English site is free, the Hebrew one is not. Rozzie

http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3083,00.html



------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30410 26 22_Re: Fw: HISTORY LESSON12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 18:18:17 -0500584_us-ascii >I hadn't realised that: > >>According to the Jewish calendar, the year is 5765. >>According to the Chinese calendar, the year is 4702. >>That means that for 1,063 years the Jews went without Chinese food. >>These were known as THE DARK AGES. >>Steve

Very cute, Steve.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30437 58 22_Re: Fw: HISTORY LESSON0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:17:05 +0000649_- This is stupid, what did the Jews eat on Christmas if there was no Chinese food?

-------------- Original message --------------

> >I hadn't realised that: > > > >>According to the Jewish calendar, the year is 5765. > >>According to the Chinese calendar, the year is 4702. > >>That means that for 1,063 years the Jews went without Chinese food. > >>These were known as THE DARK AGES. > >>Steve > > Very cute, Steve. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers [...] 30496 22 22_Re: Fw: HISTORY LESSON12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:35:15 -0500437_us-ascii >This is stupid, what did the Jews eat on Christmas if there was no Chinese >food?

Kashe varnishkes, I guess. Or cholent.

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30519 421 73_Fw: High Court Orders Mossad To Reveal Efforts On Behalf Of Missiong Jews5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:04:50 -0800496_iso-8859-1

Do I have to explain why this is of interest to us?

Steve

AM Subject: Fwd: High Court Orders Mossad To Reveal Efforts On Behalf Of Missiong Jews



> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 30941 249 17_Fw: Jewish Haikus5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:35:24 -0800417_Windows-1252

I particularly liked the weather forecast near the end.

Steve



Subject: Fw: Jewish Haikus





JEWISH HAIKUs

After the warm rain the sweet smell of camellias. Did you wipe your feet?

Her lips near my ear Aunt Sadie whispers the name of her friend's disease.

Looking for pink buds to prune, the old mohel wanders among his flowers. [...] 31191 50 15_New kibbutzniks13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 21:18:49 +0200400_windows-1255 http://tinyurl.com/52k9v

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 31242 66 19_Re: New kibbutzniks16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:44:36 -0500504_us-ascii I have heard it said that the most important thing that the left can do to make disengagement work is to reaffirm the worth of the settlers as members of the Israeli collective. So kol hakavod to these kibbutzim.

I;m not sure how welcoming my neighborhood would be if a large contingent of far right Republicans wanted to move in to this enclave of liberal Democrats and green party voters. It takes a lot for a community formed on ideology to welcome the opposition into its midst! [...] 31309 856 66_Fw: ADL Headlines: A Weekly Update from the Anti-Defamation League5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 24 Feb 2005 22:06:27 -0800749_iso-8859-1 ADLThere is plenty in these articles to be upset about. I'd be glad to hear of some ideas to address the Protestant divestment movement.

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Anti-Defamation League To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 10:58 AM Subject: ADL Headlines: A Weekly Update from the Anti-Defamation League









a.. Rash of Anti-Semitic Attacks Hits Houston a.. White Supremacists Target Daytona 500 Race a.. Virginia Senate Rejects Religion Amendment a.. ADL Joins Interfaith Alliance Briefing on Ten Commandments a.. Diversity Books go to Birthing Centers a.. Cross Burning At Catholic Church Condemned a.. Arrest in Beating of Postal [...] 32166 81 37_New(and old) Israeli and Hebrew links11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 07:43:10 -0600533_us-ascii Some are really cool .

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtUnd.jhtml?itemNo=542525&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

Useful links - get to where you need to go

Israel Directories Israel Railway Israel Railway's English site - for schedules and fares

Jewish.net Jewish and Israeli Website directory and search engine

Egged Bus Cooperative Egged's English site - for schedules and fares

www.Israeldeal.com For booking accommodation and tours in Israel [...] 32248 341 10_Divestment16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 09:54:15 -0500554_us-ascii Dear Steve,

Ameinu, the successor of LZA and a group with which all Habonim alums should seriously consider affiliation, just issued a statement on Divestment. .

http://www.ameinu.net/news/press_02232005.php

Many local areas have Jewish groups dialogging with the local Presb. church on this issue.

See the letter below from the JCRC in Pacific Palisades as an example of the possible positive outcomes of such dialogue. The American Jewish Committee is very much involved in this issue in many local chapters.. [...] 32590 306 147_Fw: SITE Institute Intel Update- Alert: Jihadi Message board Instructs Members to Use Jewish Names to Inconspicuously Register Fake Email Addresses5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 08:25:24 -0800502_UTF-8 Need-to-know (PLEASE don't ask why) Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:44 PM Subject: Fw: SITE Institute Intel Update- Alert: Jihadi Message board Instructs Members to Use Jewish Names to Inconspicuously Register Fake Email Addresses







Subject: SITE Institute Intel Update- Alert: Jihadi Message board Instructs Members to Use Jewish Names to Inconspicuously Register Fake Email Addresses [...] 32897 69 13_more research13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:10:57 +0200527_windows-1255 How do I get in on a research project like this?

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1294905.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 32967 119 17_Re: more research13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 19:29:53 +0200662_windows-1255 Oops, sorry. I didn't mean to send this to Habonet. If you're offended, well, good. Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:10 PM Subject: more research



How do I get in on a research project like this?

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1294905.html?menu=news.scienceanddiscovery





------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies. [...] 33087 41 9_Phil Ochs0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 01:07:26 +0000367_- And now for something completely different...

I was looking in an Israeli newspaper where they had an article about Jewish rockers (musicians not arm chairs) and it listed Phil Ochs as being Jewish which I thought was a mistake but having done some research I've discovered that it is most likely true. Don't know about anyone else but I was surprised. [...] 33129 31 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 21:50:04 EST458_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/25/05 8:08:09 PM, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:

<< And now for something completely different...

I was looking in an Israeli newspaper where they had an article about Jewish rockers (musicians not arm chairs) and it listed Phil Ochs as being Jewish which I thought was a mistake but having done some research I've discovered that it is most likely true. Don't know about anyone else but I was surprised. >> [...] 33161 268 12_Paul Krugman0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:05:55 EST632_US-ASCII

Published: February 25, 2005



"What's the Matter With Kansas - The Cartoon Version." Paul Krugman New York Times The slime campaign has begun against AARP, which opposes Social Security privatization. There's no hard evidence that the people involved - some of them also responsible for the "Swift Boat" election smear - are taking orders from the White House. So you're free to believe that this is an independent venture. You're also free to believe in the tooth fairy. Their first foray - an ad accusing the seniors' organization of being against the troops and for gay marriage - was notably [...] 33430 33 13_Re: Phil Ochs12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 00:14:24 -0500 33464 101 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 02:32:43 EST371_US-ASCII

apropos..i am at them moment in Montreal at the Folk Alliance music conference and just met Phil Ochs sister. its quite a good time. the high point for me was having breakfast yesterday with emmylou harris...just me..her and one of my artists. and now back to your normal broadcast....

mm

And now for something completely different... [...] 33566 170 13_Re: Phil Ochs13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:11:39 +0200571_ISO-8859-1 Damn, Marc. Emmy Lou Harris? How does she look from close up? She's one of my few show business crushes.

Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: Mmxmm@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Phil Ochs



apropos..i am at them moment in Montreal at the Folk Alliance music conference and just met Phil Ochs sister. its quite a good time. the high point for me was having breakfast yesterday with emmylou harris...just me..her and one of my artists. and now back to your normal broadcast.... [...] 33737 109 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:19:28 +0000468_- I met Emmy Lou once a few years back too. She looks great from up close, far back, medium distance, behind, sideways, crooked, drunk, straight...

-------------- Original message --------------

Damn, Marc. Emmy Lou Harris? How does she look from close up? She's one of my few show business crushes.

Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: Mmxmm@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 9:32 AM Subject: Re: Phil Ochs [...] 33847 202 51_Fwd: [humor] An interesting twist to an old classic12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:01:54 -0800433_us-ascii A LITTL CHUCKLES...SUE > > > > > > > > 1. The Wall Street Journal is read by the people > who run the country. > > > > 2. The Washington Post is read by people who think > they run the > > country. > > > > 3. The New York Times is read by people who think > they should run the > > country and who are very good at crossword > puzzles. > > > > 4. USA Today is read by people who think they > ought to run the country > [...] 34050 112 13_Re: Phil Ochs12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 09:09:25 -0800554_us-ascii Interesting how looks can be deceiving-I did a couple of films with Lauren Bacall-a great lady. Without her makeup, she could be anyone's grandmother, but once she puts that stuff on her, a transformation takes place and she becomes the Star of the 40s and fifties....Somehow I think musicians, who basically "let it all hang out"--and folk/country ones, who sing a basic "truth" (even when it is funny) keep some kind of of naturalness that doesn't need the "makeup" to stay beautiful...naturally....sue --- rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote: [...] 34163 184 17_Re: more research5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 10:01:29 -0800516_windows-1255 Jon

I was not offended

Steve

I'm not sure I agree with the findings. It may be culturally biased. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:29 AM Subject: Re: more research



Oops, sorry. I didn't mean to send this to Habonet. If you're offended, well, good. Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 7:10 PM Subject: more research [...] 34348 147 18_Phil Ochs in India11_Carol Shore21_c_shore@IX.NETCOM.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:39:06 -0500581_iso-8859-1 Our son, Elon, (Galil, MBI, Workshop 51) is currently in India for a semester, living with a host family and studying international development at the University of Rajasthan in Jaipur. January 30th is India Republic Day, which commemorates the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi and others who died for the state. They even have 2 minutes of silence at 11 am, just like Israel, which he found very interesting. Elon's host dad took him to a ceremony that day at a local NGO he is active in. At the end of the speeches, everyone sang Indian folk songs. Elon was asked [...] 34496 22 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 17:01:06 -0500513_iso-8859-1 >>I know, and Bob Dylan went to Habonim Camp....

Actually he went to Herzl Camp, an independent Zionist camp in Wisconsin

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 34519 173 51_Fw: World Council of Churches anti-Israel campaign.5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:59:38 -0800462_iso-8859-1 Forwarding to let you know what some are writing. How effective this is going to be, I don't know.

Steve



PM Subject: Fw: World Council of Churches anti-Israel campaign.











Subject: World Council of Chruches anti-Israel campaign.

This is the letter that I posted in the Inter-Faith website of the World Council of Churches regarding their proposed sanctions against Israel. [...] 34693 226 53_Fw: this was sent to me by a non-Jew living in Israel5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:01:52 -0800410_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 2:40 PM Subject: this was sent to me by a non-Jew living in Israel





----- Forwarded by Joyce Chernick/Hacienda on 02/26/2005 02:27 PM ----- "don morris" 02/26/2005 01:16 PM To joyce@jc88.cc, info@standwithus.com cc Subject Look who was attacked last night [...] 34920 539 48_Never Lost an Opportunity to Lose an Opportunity5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:44:16 -0800652_UTF-8



It seems to me the last time we signed an agreement with these people and gave them something for nothing, what we got in return was over 1,000 Israelis murdered. Jack



Dear fellow desirers of peace (including Jack). Events like this will continue to happen unless and until the Palestinians as a body arise and announce that these actions are atrocities and defilements against humanity, and against the Palestinian people; that the perpetrators are vile, and that they are the worst of traitors to the Palestinian cause. Never have the Palestinians been closer to achieving statehood, dignity and the respect [...] 35460 436 42_Fw: What did you expect, flying elephants?5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:49:25 -0800551_iso-8859-1

Fellow Habonetters

This is so disheartening, it was difficult to send it along. It is important to know, so here it is.

Steve









Terrorists Shatter Phoney Calm in Tel Aviv, Shop for Heavy Weapons *****************************************************************

DEBKAfile Exclusive Military Report

The dark days of Palestinian terror returned to Israel Friday night as a savage reminder that the three-and-a- half months of apparent lull were a pleasant fantasy. [...] 35897 54 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 00:58:22 +0000583_- and hated it.

-------------- Original message --------------

> >>I know, and Bob Dylan went to Habonim Camp.... > > Actually he went to Herzl Camp, an independent Zionist camp in Wisconsin > > Ken > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG [...] 35952 44 12_Harpo's Harp0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:06:41 +0000319_- And now something else completely different...

I read on the internet (which means it has no better than a 50% chance of being true) that Harpo Marx left his harp to Israel in his will.

Does anyone know if there is any truth in this and if so does anyone know where it is? Has anyone ever seen it? [...] 35997 24 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_14_Ohanka@AOL.COM29_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 20:09:08 EST534_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/26/05 7:59:02 PM, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:

<< and hated it. >>

Do you have any more information about this Richard? I always wondered if Dylan had any interest in his Jewishness. Hank

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 36022 68 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:49:48 +0000368_- He hated the camp, especially the singing, according to the Scaduto biography.

As to Dylan's feeling towards his Jewishness it has apparently changed during the years. In his recent book, Chronicles, he never mentions his religious beliefs (Jewish or his "born again" period) or even being Jewish at all though he does mention going to the Western Wall. [...] 36091 47 13_Re: Phil Ochs6_Martin18_emskol@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 22:48:22 -0500442_us-ascii All I can tell you from first hand knowledge is that Dylan belonged to a Reform congregation in Beverly Hills when I was a teacher at their Day School in the early 80's

Marty Skolnik Ft. Lauderdale

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Ohanka@AOL.COM Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 8:09 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Phil Ochs [...] 36139 64 13_Re: Phil Ochs11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 26 Feb 2005 21:15:24 -0800416_us-ascii Which one?

-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Martin Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:48 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Phil Ochs

All I can tell you from first hand knowledge is that Dylan belonged to a Reform congregation in Beverly Hills when I was a teacher at their Day School in the early 80's [...] 36204 54 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 02:47:20 EST370_US-ASCII The story on Phil Ochs many many years ago was that, when his sister wanted to make aliya, Phil convinced her out of it.

Just a few years ago - when those of us on the Naaleh Camp Committee were looking for a new camp site, I actually made contact with Phil's sister, and she was helpful to us concerning some property in uptate NY where she lives. [...] 36259 72 10_Mrs. World13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:41:49 +0200474_windows-1255 I'm not a big follower of beauty pageants but I just found out (via Powerline Blog) that Israel won the Mrs. World competition - a contest for married women. I wasn't even aware that there was such a contest, but it's good to see that the International Zionist Conspiracy is alive and well. If you oppose such things on principle, don't bother, but if not, here are some photos. Kol Hakavod to Sima Bakhar, the winner. Beats reading about suicide bombers. [...] 36332 494 14_Re: Divestment12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:15:39 -0800633_iso-8859-1 A very disappointing statement. After some vague admissions that maybe Israel might occasionally violate a few human rights, it proceeds to offer the knee-jerk "it's all the Arabs' fault" version of history, blaming the victims for their occupation. And it then totally misses the point of the Presbyterians, blasting them for seeking "divestment from Israel." The writer either didn't bother to read the church's statement or is deliberately twisting it. For those of you who also haven't read it, the PCUSA has, first of all, only decided to study the possibility, and more importantly, what it's studying is not a [...] 36827 92 43_bob dylan's mom and other memories of Dylan13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:53:48 +0200318_windows-1255 with all the writing about Bob Dylan recently, I remembered a radio program from about 1964-5 that featured an interview with Bob Dylan's mother, who was on an organized tour of Israel (I think with Hadasa, if memory serves me right).

She was asked "Mrs Zimmerman, what made your son a poet?" [...] 36920 39 47_Re: bob dylan's mom and other memories of Dylan0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:21:46 EST429_US-ASCII Pearl - those are two precious stories - thank you! Aliya

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 36960 93 47_Re: bob dylan's mom and other memories of Dylan13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:22:51 +0200417_iso-8859-1 thank you -- and thank you for the kumsitz, that despite the poorer turnout this year, was still very enjoyable. It is always good to see old friends,..... Make new friends, but keep the old One is silver, the other gold.... pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: SC523@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:21 PM Subject: Re: bob dylan's mom and other memories of Dylan [...] 37054 70 47_Re: bob dylan's mom and other memories of Dylan12_Sue Liberman20_fiddlebach@YAHOO.COM31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:50:59 -0800587_us-ascii Can we have a report on the kumsitz--who was there, what you sang, etc.....sue(sie) --- Pearl Skolnik wrote:

> thank you -- > and thank you for the kumsitz, that despite the > poorer turnout this year, was still very enjoyable. > It is always good to see old friends,..... > Make new friends, but keep the old > One is silver, the other gold.... > pearl > ----- Original Message ----- > From: SC523@AOL.COM > To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG > Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:21 PM > Subject: Re: bob dylan's mom and other memories of > Dylan > [...] 37125 41 12_Harpo's Harp16_Genevieve Marcus20_drmarcus@PACBELL.NET31_Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:32:30 -0800423_us-ascii Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 01:06:41 +0000 From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Subject: Harpo's Harp

And now something else completely different...

I read on the internet (which means it has no better than a 50% chance of being true) that Harpo Marx left his harp to Israel in his will.

Does anyone know if there is any truth in this and if so does anyone know where it is? Has anyone ever seen it? [...] 37167 65 47_Re: bob dylan's mom and other memories of Dylan0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 03:40:04 EST534_US-ASCII Kumsitz was great - not so poorly attended , though some people held back because of reports of snow (it never came) - a car came up from Urim - great guitar playing by Carmi Spiwack Holtzer and Dave Holtzer - Jessie Bonn came with 2 of her children who have been raised on these songs - highlight of the evening: Ron Gang's blues singing and harmonica playing on songs ranging from Summertime to The Kretchma. . . . .bottom line: We sang until after midnight. Thanks to Marty Land and Janet Baumgold for great hosting. [...] 37233 193 35_Fw: Outrage! "A Family in Mourning"5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:37:09 -0800459_iso-8859-1 Perhaps it would be good for people of conscience to contact the BBC individually. This boggles the mind!

Steve



----- Original Message ----- From: Joyce Chernick Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 12:44 PM Subject: Fw: Outrage!







----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Shaw To: helen.boaden@thebbc.co.uk Cc: michael.grade@thebbc.co.uk Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 9:52 PM Subject: Outrage! [...] 37427 308 38_Fw: Muslim ritual murders in...Berlin!5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 09:52:57 -0800410_iso-8859-1

I don't think this could happen here in the U.S. There is something odd about the European societies that think Shaaria is transplantable to foreign soil. Most amazing is when they act surprised at the results!

Steve



Subject: Muslim ritual murders in...Berlin!









'How many more women have to die before this society wakes up?' [...] 37736 311 30_Fw: [Freemanlist] (no subject)5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 10:13:52 -0800433_iso-8859-1

Much food for thought.

Steve





------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 38048 64 7_Holland13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 21:17:49 +0200585_windows-1255 Another European country begins to self-destruct:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/27/international/europe/27dutch.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-1488514_1,00.html

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To unsubscribe email: HABONET-unsubscribe-request@SHAMASH.ORG 38113 22 18_Dylan - Chronicles0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:51:20 -0500545_iso-8859-1 >>BTW- Dylan's book is very enjoyable though not particularly revealing. Anyone else read it yet?

Yup, enjoyed it. Being from Mpls, I particularly liked the sections on the folk scene there before he hit the Village.

Ken

------------------------------------------------------------------------- The HABONET mailing list is hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, a service of Hebrew College, which offers online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 38136 92 22_Re: Dylan - Chronicles0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:04:22 EST562_US-ASCII

more Dylan minutiae.... he wrote 'Hard Rain's Gonna Fall'...on Hugh Romney's typewriter in a room above the Gaslight in the Village before he was re-named Wavy Gravy by B.B. King at the Texas Pop fest [ I manage Wavy] Also it is believed that 'Girl from the North Country' refers to Wavy's wife Bonnie Jean [now Jahanara] who at the time was Dylan's sweetie in MN....."she once was a true love of mine". Other Dylan bio's talk about her in much greater length then does Dylan in his own book who refers to her as a 'young actress' he knew. [...] 38229 204 67_Fw: Dangerous Indoctrination About Islam in American Public Schools5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 13:31:36 -0800775_UTF-8

Does anyone out there have more information about the schools?

Steve



Subject: Fw: Dangerous Indoctrination About Islam in American Public Schools







Arizona Public Schools Teach Islam At Daniel Pipes’ web site, a reader comments on Islamic indoctrination in a Scottsdale, Arizona public school. http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/20546

My child is in the 7th grade in Scottsdale, Arizona. The school’s officially adopted social studies textbook is titled Across the Centuries and is published by Houghton Mifflin. However, Across the Centuries has been shelved and the school is piloting a brand new book from Teacher’s Curriculum Institute, aka TCI, titled History Alive! The Medieval World [...] 38434 85 71_Re: Fw: Dangerous Indoctrination About Islam in American Public Schools0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Tue, 1 Mar 2005 00:06:21 +0000472_- As an ex-teacher, this program sounds like an education major's attempt to demystify and address the anti-Islam attitudes of many Americans. Hard to believe people would feel that there is an anti-Islamic prejudice in America, huh?

-------------- Original message -------------- 

Does anyone out there have more information about the schools?

Steve



Subject: Fw: Dangerous Indoctrination About Islam in American Public Schools [...] 38520 38 36_Time to spread the word about Ameinu0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:11:04 -0500468_iso-8859-1 Folks:

Back in December I shared with you the first version of the "Ameinu" website, which is an important element of our efforts to present a restructured, repositioned Labor Zionist Alliance to American Jewry. Brian Cooper, your own Habonet moderator, has chaired a wonderful committee that has put together a top notch website that includes regularly posted new content on issues of interest to this group plus interactive discussion forums. [...] 38559 86 13_Re: Phil Ochs0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:17:42 EST431_US-ASCII In a message dated 2/25/2005 8:08:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET writes:



I was looking in an Israeli newspaper where they had an article about Jewish rockers (musicians not arm chairs) and it listed Phil Ochs as being Jewish which I thought was a mistake but having done some research I've discovered that it is most likely true. Don't know about anyone else but I was surprised. [...] 38646 31 13_Re: Phil Ochs12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Mon, 28 Feb 2005 20:46:34 -0500