1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet December 2004
2 100 8_Re: noam5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:26:55 -0800672_iso-8859-1 Pearl
Well said!
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: "Pearl Skolnik" To: Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: noam
>i don't recall making that point. > A reporter sees and knows about an event only for the short time he is > there, so his understanding is limited to what happens at that moment. > Something like seeing a policeman shoot a demonstrator. That event is > photographed and reported around the world. But, the reporter did not see > that minutes before the demonstrator threw a grenade at the police. The > world sees the [...]
103 63 32_Re: The Toxic and the Nourishing5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:44:28 -0800481_iso-8859-1 David
Your insinuation is that I am either lying, or I am delusional. Either one is OK, considering the source. I hope you are willing to meet me in Macy's window when you find out that all I did was report a factual event. However, how this becomes fodder for a challenge of the sort that you present is beyond me. Do you have nothing else to provide you entertainment? The others in "the Group" at least wait 'til there is something substantial to attack. [...]
167 107 8_Re: noam12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 09:19:50 -0500496_us-ascii Which point? I included a quote from your messaage. The second point was also in the message to which I responded:
Mr.Mittelman from Ma'ariv is an honest reporter -- but he, like all reporters, only reports on what he sees at the moment he is in the "ring." What about what took place before and after his appearance? It doesn't get reported, but just might be more important than and shed more light on matters than what he did report about during the time he bore witness. [...]
275 193 26_Fw: HOW MANY DOES IT TAKE?5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 30 Nov 2004 23:59:27 -0800559_iso-8859-1
For those of you that have not lost your sense of humor.
Steve
Subject: Fw: HOW MANY DOES IT TAKE?
Q: How many Orthodox rabbis does it take to change a light bulb? A: Change? Q: How many Conservative rabbis does it take to change a light bulb? A: Some members of the Committee on Law & Standards say it takes a minyan, except what makes a minyan nobody can agree on. Some say the minyan can be made up of men and women, some say only men, some say men OR women. There was no majority, so the issue [...]
469 158 8_Re: noam5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 08:51:37 -0800505_iso-8859-1 Pearl and Noam
Apologies to both of you for sticking my nose in here. I did not read Pearl's comments the same way you did, Noam. I guess I could be a bit more objective, not being you in the discussion. All I heard (read, actually) Pearl saying was " You are not here, so at least give some indication when you make an argument that your view of events can in no way be the same as that of someone who is closer to the action and involved in a much more intense way than you are." [...]
628 182 8_Re: noam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 22:25:19 +0200579_iso-8859-1 Steve: STAY. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 6:51 PM Subject: Re: noam
> Pearl and Noam > > Apologies to both of you for sticking my nose in here. I did not read > Pearl's > comments the same way you did, Noam. I guess I could be a bit more > objective, > not being you in the discussion. All I heard (read, actually) Pearl saying > was > " You are not here, so at least give some indication when you make an > argument > that your [...]
811 97 10_Good News!5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 13:26:40 -0800534_iso-8859-1 David Fleiss
Good news! I found the materials that link Michael Moore with Tikkun! I have already contacted Macy's window department, and they have available space. Here is the next step: I am willing to send the exonerating evidence along for verification, but I am sure you will understand when I say that I do not trust you to acknowledge its receipt or its veracity. Nothing personal. I can send it to a third party, such as Judy, if she is willing to intermediate, or to someone else we both deem neutral. [...]
909 127 8_Re: noam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:17:27 +0200504_iso-8859-1 noam, i never told you to shut up and go away. ask only that you recognize the limitation of vision of those not on the battleground. i resent your putting quotation marks around words, indicating that you do not believe what I write. I am not a liar and do not make up what I write. I am a witness to history unfolding before my eyes. I record it as I see it. I also live in one corner of Israel, but I have lived and worked in many corners of Israel, so I see and have seen Israel from [...]
1037 19 14_Re: Good News!12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:25:01 -0500453_us-ascii I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to GEICO.
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1057 19 14_Re: Good News!12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 17:26:01 -0500446_us-ascii PS -- My public apology to you is coming right after yours to me.
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1077 124 14_Re: Good News!16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 1 Dec 2004 19:10:35 -0500566_us-ascii I am willing to be the mediator on this issue, mostly became I am very interested in seeing the material myself. Judy
Steve wrote:
> David Fleiss > > Good news! I found the materials that link Michael Moore with > Tikkun! I have already contacted Macy's window department, and they > have available space. Here is the next step: I am willing to send the > exonerating evidence along for verification, but I am sure you will > understand when I say that I do not trust you to acknowledge its > receipt or its veracity. Nothing personal. I [...]
1202 238 23_historical revisionism?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Thu, 2 Dec 2004 00:13:43 -0500549_us-ascii So who do you believe? Or do you believe certain things only at certain times? Or is it all relative?
Perle: Rumsfeld Opposed, Powell Wanted Occupation
Tuesday, Nov. 30, 2004 8:03 a.m. EST http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/11/30/80903.shtml Secretary Colin Powell, the State Department and the CIA - not Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld - are responsible for the chaos that has grown out of the U.S. occupation of Iraq, says Richard Perle, the former chairman of Pentagon's Defense Policy Review Board. [...]
1441 19 53_Al Cjhanukah V'Chilonim/ Hebrew article from Ha'aretz11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Thu, 2 Dec 2004 10:41:26 -0600459_us-ascii http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/objects/pages/PrintArticle.jhtml?itemNo=508536
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1461 78 79_pearl (why not write the topic rather than make a particular person the issue?)12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM30_Thu, 2 Dec 2004 20:33:29 -0500560_us-ascii You often write that we in the states shouldn't speak on certain topics. That says shut up and go away to me. I do indeed recognize that those in Israel have a different perspective, and indeed Israeli chevre on the list have different perspectives as well as different interpretations of the same facts and events. This is the essence of being human. I ask that you recognize that it is not always those who are closest to events who see them most clearly (please note that I am not claiming that I personally have a clear view). I will suggest [...]
1540 310 44_Has Israel Fought a Moral War?/Daniel Gordis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Fri, 3 Dec 2004 07:16:27 -0600640_us-ascii Israel's Morality and the World's Myopia
Any discussion of the manner in which Israel has conducted its armed conflict with the Palestinians over the past four years demands, first and foremost, clarity about the nature of the conflict and what is at stake. Israel is at war -- not against "militants," or against those who would seek to "liberate" the Palestinian people. Israel is engaged in a war for her survival, against well-armed and increasingly well-trained, highly disciplined groups of terrorists, who are wholly up front about their agenda. Their agenda is not the liberation of the "territories" that were [...]
1851 29 45_New Statesman - The defeat of the pork-eaters16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 3 Dec 2004 08:57:51 -0500582_us-ascii
http://www.newstatesman.com/site.php3?newTemplate=NSArticle_Life&newDisplayURN=200412060025
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1881 457 39_Defeat of the Pork-Eaters/New Statesman16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:00:24 -0500828_us-ascii http://www.newstatesman.com/site.php3?newTemplate=NSArticle_Life&newDisplayURN=200412060025
THE DEFEAT OF THE PORK-EATERS
In Israel, Orthodox Jews are not only winning the demographic war against their secular enemies - they are changing the nation's culture, too.
By Daphna Baram / New Statesman / Monday 6th December 2004
Two years ago, at the age of 88 and after living in Jerusalem for 85 years, my grandmother, Gracia Baram, decided to move to Tel Aviv. The reasons she supplied for this surprising step were similar to those one hears from people 60 years her junior. Like many who abandon Jerusalem, she was worn out by the increasing dominance [...]
2339 322 35_Fwd: Has Israel Fought a Moral War?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:08:06 -0500465_us-ascii *** To join this list, send a BLANK email to:
gordis-subscribe@topica.com. Or see www.danielgordis.org for more information.
*** Just published ..... The last five years of these Dispatches (a revised version of IF A PLACE CAN MAKE YOU CRY), plus other brief essays on life in Israel, are now available as "Home to Stay: One American Family's Chronicle of Miracles and Struggles in Contemporary Israel (Random House/Three Rivers Press). [...]
2662 248 80_Jerusalem Post | Breaking News from Israel, the Middle East and the Jewish World16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:13:32 -0500610_us-ascii
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer&cid=1101960940687&p=1078027574097
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2911 293 27_Re: historical revisionism?0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:33:31 -0800486_iso-8859-1 Elihu asks some pretty broad questions, but one thing is certain: you don't believe blatant BS, no matter who is spreading it.
Sharon Gates
"Elihu D. Davison" Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 12/01/2004 09:13 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh
To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: historical revisionism? [...]
3205 134 27_Re: historical revisionism?0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:29:08 +0000560_- I don't understand why it would be difficult to believe Pearl's (Richard, that is) assertions as expressed in the article.
-------------- Original message --------------
Elihu asks some pretty broad questions, but one thing is certain: you don't believe blatant BS, no matter who is spreading it.
Sharon Gates
"Elihu D. Davison" Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 12/01/2004 09:13 PM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...]
3340 154 4_AACI3_leo18_leodie@ISDN.NET.IL30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:59:06 +0300648_us-ascii The AACI (Association of American and Canadians in Israel) recently announced that an affiliate will be established in the US to encourage Aliyah. The announcement is as follows:
******
CAMPAIGN FOR OVERSEAS MEMBERS AACI is conducting a campaign to increase our overseas membership. We urge our members to help by informing us of potential overseas supporters. Please send names, addresses and E-mail addresses of relatives and friends who might join AACI as overseas members to AACI, P.O. Box 4337, Jerusalem 91042 or E-mail to info@aaci.org.il . We will then contact these people, tell them about AACI and ask them to [...]
3495 334 48_Re: Has Israel Fought a Moral War?/Daniel Gordis12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 00:05:31 -0800362_iso-8859-1 Once again, what a sad recitation of myth after myth designed to help us close our self-righteous ranks. The tragedy is that the effect of refusing to see historical reality is a major factor in driving us deeper and deeper into the self-fulfilling prophecy of perpetual conflict that this writer chooses to blame solely on the other side. David [...]
3830 626 49_Scalia - Jews Are Safer With Christians in Charge16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 09:09:24 -0500642_ISO-8859-1 http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1202-33.htm
Published on Thursday, December 2, 2004 by CommonDreams.org Scalia To Synagogue - Jews Are Safer With Christians In Charge by Thom Hartmann
Antonin Scalia, the man most likely to be our next Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, turned history on its head recently when he attended an Orthodox synagogue in New York and claimed that the Founders intended for their Christianity to play a part in government. Scalia then went so far as to suggest that the reason Hitler was able to initiate the Holocaust was because of German separation of church and state. [...]
4457 105 20_Historians and Poets12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 16:35:35 +0200535_us-ascii Noam, You recently wrote Pearl that:
>You also view as a fault those who report what they witness for not reporting that about which they have no personal knowledge. Seems like you often lecture us about the need for personal experience before we are worthy of expressing an opinion.
Of course it won't come as a surprise that I agree with you. Here are a couple of reasons why: the first is don't shoot the messenger if you don't like the message. David is first of a long line that didn't heed my advice. [...]
4563 134 21_Re: HDFOUNDATION SITE15_Beverly Warshai21_warshai@SBCGLOBAL.NET30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 23:42:46 -0500433_iso-8859-1 I think I can help with the workshop photo. I was at Yotvata and can identify those folks and next week, at our Salinger Hanuka party, I'll bring the photo so Jon Falk (who became my cousin in law) can identify the Mayan Baruch crowd. - Bev Warshai (Salinger) ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith R. Gelman To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 6:56 AM Subject: Re: HDFOUNDATION SITE [...]
4698 20 39_House Exchange???? Israel/San Francisco9_Naomi Jay21_naomi_jay@HOTMAIL.COM30_Sat, 4 Dec 2004 22:26:32 -0800
4719 61 43_Re: House Exchange???? Israel/San Francisco9_carmidave20_carmdave@URIM.ORG.IL30_Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:59:31 +0200506_iso-8859-1 sounds good.... couple of first class airline tickets (Tlv - SF) to sweeten the deal?
Chag Same'ach!!!! Dave
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4781 43 54_Portion of the week/ Ha'artez/ Two tales, two brothers11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Sun, 5 Dec 2004 06:33:43 -0600604_us-ascii Portion of the Week / Two tales, two brothers By Naftaly Gliksberg
Two central stories appear in this week's Torah reading: The tale of Joseph being sold into slavery in Egypt and his adventures there, and Judah's journey of personal development. Both journeys reflect the gap between the outlooks of Joseph and Judah, which will later turn into a direct struggle between them in the Vayigash Torah portion. The incorporation of Judah's story into the tale of Joseph being sold into slavery in Egypt reflects the perception of the two journeys as diametrically opposed alternatives. [...]
4825 47 48_Re: Has Israel Fought a Moral War?/Daniel Gordis12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM30_Sun, 5 Dec 2004 21:24:36 -0500537_us-ascii Hi David,
I don't think the blame can all be placed with one side, yet I find much of what Gordis writes to ring true. What myths do you find so sad? Can you be a bit more specific about the historical reality to which you refer?
Noam
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of David Mandel Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2004 3:06 AM To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Has Israel Fought a Moral War?/Daniel Gordis [...]
4873 44 26_Learning Yiddish made easy0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 17:59:48 +0000414_- http://www.vidlit.com/yidlit/yidlit.html
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4918 117 7_to noam13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 00:45:05 +0200548_windows-1255 noam, i don't fault people for not reporting what they do not know or have not experienced. I fault them for giving the impression that what they report is the whole truth.
I wrote about my experience with reporters who sit in court, stay an hour, and later report about the trial for the hour they were there. The 5 hours they were not there were the crucial hours of trial and this is missed and even though this part of the trial is the important part it does not get reported because the reporter was not there to hear [...]
5036 100 8_To Pearl12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:50:24 -0500560_us-ascii Pearl,
Again, I think it is better to use the subject line to describe the subject of the message, and the salutation to address an individual.
As long as you recognize that the events that you witness and report here are not the whole truth, I think we have found common ground. I especially agree with the conclusions you draw from your husband's experience in the Yom Kippur War. The point that sometimes one must take a step back to see the big picture, "to stand at a distance in order to see the whole reality" as you put it, [...]
5137 83 12_Re: To Pearl0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM28_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 19:56:01 EST567_US-ASCII
To Pearl and Noam;
Stephan Jay Gould has a great essay called "Seeing is Believing." He explains how the great Gallileo mistakenly reported that Saturn was a "Triple Planet.' He looked through his telescope and he said "I saw it with my own eyes." We know in retropsect that what he saw was Saturn and its ring system. Since he had nothing in his experience to prepare him for rings, he saw a "triple planet." Much of what we see is what we are prepared to see. We see different things. Some of us are good at showing others what [...]
5221 88 24_Michael Moore and Tikkun16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 20:16:51 -0500588_ISO-8859-15 I accepted the role of "mediator" for Steve and his challenger. (Sorry, I forgot who it was this time--I think it was David Fleiss but maybe it was someone else.) Steve, true to his pledge, sent me what he had left of the promotional materials.
The return envelope is addressed to Tikkun. Indeed, Michael Moore's picture is on the material. What exactly he personally had to say on the subject of Israel wasn't clear to me because Steve rescued just a portion of the whole packet from the trash. The material from Tikkun talked about forming a new organization to [...]
5310 33 33_We Have A Serious Endemic Disease12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 06:36:45 +0200584_us-ascii Haverot/im When I read Daniel Gordis' Has Israel Fought a Moral War? I thought *mah yafit * what a transparent snow job. Today's Haaretz reports on yet another in a lengthening series of ostensibly unintended acts of inhumanity. There is an infectious disease abroad in the land. It is the immorality of acting in the manner of leit din and leit Dayan. There is no law and there will be no judgement, because Israel Fought a Moral War. Meanwhile, Israeli Radio reports that the chief of manpower and personnel has declared that he expects every soldier to act as though [...]
5344 189 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET30_Mon, 6 Dec 2004 22:48:17 -0800394_ISO-8859-15 I also regularly receive missives from both Moore and Lerner and have seen nothing about them working together on a project. Nor does either of their web sites mention anything about the other ....
But wait a minute! Would someone have a problem if they were collaborating on something? I, for one, think it would be great! I like most of what both of them have to say. [...]
5534 81 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 07:35:25 -0500565_ISO-8859-15 After Steve (who doesn't like Moore or Tikkun) remarked on receiving this material, someone who also gets material from both Moore and Tikkun and didn't see it on the websites accused Steve of, essentially, halluciating or fabricating the connection. Steve asked for a neutral third party to look at the material, using me as an example. I said I would do it. He sent me the material by USPS. My role was merely to verify and report back to Habonet. Based on the evidence Steve sent me, it appears that Tikkun and Moore do in fact appear to have a [...]
5616 57 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 08:06:40 -0800575_us-ascii I must have missed the initial post about Michael Moore and Tikkun, so thanks, Judy for recapping. This past weekend, I was delighted to get a mailing from Tikkun about the Tikkun Community, an effort they have been promoting for some time. The Tikkun Community seeks to create local and national groups of people who come together with a progressive vision in mutual support and action. In this latest mailing, there is an insert in which Michael Moore lends his support to the call for people to join. He says that he is a member of the Tikkun Community, and [...]
5674 57 9_"Reality"0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 07:58:09 -0800539_us-ascii There has been a lot of discussion on this list recently about "reality" and whether "THE reality" (to quote Pearl) is more accurately reflected in the big picture or in the details. I submit that (for humans) there is no such thing as "the reality" -- there is only each person's view. As humans, we are priveledged to be able to discuss our views with each other, so we can get a glimpse of "reality" as another sees it. What I see is just as valid as what you see. No person truly sees everything. This is, of course, not [...]
5732 21 13_Re: "Reality"0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:17:51 EST480_US-ASCII So....is the cup half full or half empty?----Maybe it's both......then what is your reality???--sue
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5754 124 8_Renoam 213_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:13:46 +0200486_iso-8859-1 noam, i respectfully say here that there is a big difference: you are not experiencing what we experience, even an iota. you are 6,000 miles away experiencing CNN or whatever. The "little picture" you experience has to be vastly different than our "little picture." I don't believe there is a comparison. chag urim sameach, pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Stopak, Noam To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:50 AM Subject: To Pearl [...]
5879 49 46_If We're Almost Winning Why Am I So Despondent12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:31:32 +0200593_us-ascii Haverim/ot We might never know whether the Geneva Initiative and the growing number of reservists who refused to serve in the territories were really the reason for Sharon's disengagement plan, or whether the virtual agreement to the Road Map followed by the Palestinian refusal provided him with an excuse for fleeing from the road map to the old Bantustan scheme. But to Labor and Yahad MKs, as well as most Shinui MKs, whose roots are in the peace camp - the people whose votes will eventually pass the disengagement plan - where Sharon is coming from should not matter; what [...]
5929 249 12_Re: Renoam 216_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 15:53:02 -0500566_us-ascii Dear Pearl,
Many of us on this list spend a great deal of time and focus on Israel. We are not merely "experiencing CNN". In fact, I doubt many of us on this list get most of our information about Israel from mainstream International media sources.
I understand your concerns about Israel's physical security and of course we in the US don't personally face those risks on a daily basis. We, on the other hand, defend Israel in other ways. Israelis talk about "hasbara" all the time but many of us in the US are the ones who are actually [...]
6179 41 50_Re: If We're Almost Winning Why Am I So Despondent0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM28_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 18:57:00 EST564_US-ASCII It seems that, when dreams die and "reality" sets in, it is like a death. You once mentioned the fact that today's Israel is not the vision of the chalutzim, nor of your parents, who invested their lives in building a socially just place which would fulfill the historic precept of "or lagoyim."-- And then came the McDonalds and Coca Cola invasion, and the realization that Medinat Yisrael would have to exist in a global economy in order to self-defend; but with all of that, it was also continuing to be a haven for all of those who, for whatever [...]
6221 32 6_Tzadal14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 00:22:01 +0000664_- The Knesset has just authorized a law which will grant Israeli citizenship to members of the "Army of Southern Labanon" militia [Tzadal], which cooperated with Tzahal during the years that Israel occupied land in Lebanon [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/511367.html].
When Tzahal left Lebanon in the summer of 2000, several thousand members of Tzadal fled to Israel. Most of these individuals subsequently returned to Lebanon. So the new law is less important than it would have been if it had been enacted sooner. Still this legislation, which was sponsored by a Labor MK, does acknowledge the contribution of the Lebanese people who stood with [...]
6254 38 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:33:30 -0500528_us-ascii In light of Judy's and Sharon's messages, I apologize for suggesting that Steve was dreaming when he wrote about a collaboration between Michael Moore and Tikkun (whether Tikkun magazine or the Tikkun Community).
What Sharon describes sounds like an appeal from Michael Moore to either subscribe to the magazine or join the Community (and not a joint project, as was originally suggested). Perhaps I didn't receive anything because I already subscribe to Tikkun magazine and belong to the Tikkun Community. [...]
6293 85 48_Fwd: Muslim and Jewish groups stand against hate12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 19:41:10 -0500
6379 93 48_New Mideast or mirage/ Bradley Burston/ Ha'aretz11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Tue, 7 Dec 2004 20:42:40 -0600581_us-ascii Background/ New Mideast or mirage: Did Arafat die for peace? By Bradley Burston, Haaretz Correspondent
The grim wisecrack percolating in Israel holds that Peace Prize laureate Yasser Arafat now deserves a second Nobel at least as much as he did the first - for having died.
The observation, it appears, stems only in part from antipathy to the Palestinian leader. What has given it particular currency is a sudden momentum toward diplomacy, in a flurry of developments that, until the Palestinian leaders' death last month, seemed near-impossibilities. [...]
6473 63 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 06:12:40 -0800673_iso-8859-1 David
You are one tough customer.
If I agree to bury the hatchet, will I be 99% wrong on that, too?
What the heck. Buried.
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fleiss" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:33 PM Subject: Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun
> In light of Judy's and Sharon's messages, I apologize for suggesting that > Steve was dreaming when he wrote about a collaboration between Michael > Moore and Tikkun (whether Tikkun magazine or the Tikkun Community). > > What Sharon describes sounds like an appeal from Michael Moore to either > [...]
6537 208 24_Activists' Shopping list16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 13:10:02 -0500460_us-ascii I thought some of you would be interested in this. Note that the data is from the previous election cycle. Judy
Activists' Holiday Shopping List
CORPORATE POLITICAL DONATIONS Source: Center for Responsive Politics December 16, 2000
With the holidays upon us, some of us might wish to be mindful of who we patronize relative to their 2000 Election Cycle political donations, as reported by the Center for Responsive Politics. [...]
6746 65 28_Re: Activists' Shopping list12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 15:39:38 -0500512_us-ascii
I find this more than a little ironic.
Waffle House, $279K, 100% republican;
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6812 27 28_Re: Activists' Shopping list11_Lon Ephraim16_cbma@VERIZON.NET30_Wed, 8 Dec 2004 23:47:32 -0500514_US-ASCII Judy-
Thanks for the info. A better way for us po' folk to contribute than send in measly $5 or $10 checks to orgs we favor, only to cover the cost of their barraging us with mailings.
Shelly
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6840 19 30_Interesting weblog (in Hebrew)11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 08:44:00 -0600421_us-ascii http://www.fishtuna.com/warlog/boki2.htm
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6860 564 49_Nature and Jewish Religion: Thoughts for Hanukkah16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 12:38:41 -0500617_iso-8859-1 I thought some of you would find this interesting. Hag Samayach- Judy
> "Nature and Jewish Religion: Thoughts for Hanukkah" > > Prof. Moshe Benovitz > > Most biblically ordained Jewish festivals have a double significance: they > have one meaning associated with nature and another meaning associated > with > Israelite history. The Sabbath commemorates creation, but it is also > called > zekher litisiat mitsrayim, a commemoration of the Exodus. Passover is the > festival of spring and the festival of Israelite freedom; Shavuot is > both a > harvest festival and the day on which the Torah [...]
7425 49 11_Help Needed12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:27:36 +0200638_us-ascii Haverot/im I don't know if this is the done thing but I'm soliciting some help in getting my book on modern Israeli literature published. I'm looking for a publisher and/or agent for BUT IS IT JEWISH: Affirmations of an Unrepentant Zionist. It employs literary criticism - mostly poetry - to assess the heroic transition brought about in Jewish civilization by the advent of Israel. The book brings cultural analysis, literary criticism and recent history to bear in a savvy irreverent amalgam. Despite some scholarly riffs it is not an academic work, too many intuitions, insights and personal experiences are interspersed [...]
7475 26 15_Re: Help Needed0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM28_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 16:17:36 EST444_US-ASCII Amnon- My boss just published a book called "Pioneers of Israel"--he knows people- can you send a "mock-up"??? Have you tried Jonathan David publishers? They are a subsidiary of Girard-Strauss and Jonathan David is their "Jewish, Arts" division. You can download a request form--and submit directly to them without an agent....I will forward your request to my boss ( Sari helped with our pics fromt he Zionist Archives)....susie [...]
7502 226 28_Re: Activists' Shopping list16_Sharon Weissbach12_sw@IGLOU.COM30_Thu, 9 Dec 2004 21:18:27 -0500799_iso-8859-1 A+ That is very quick of you – quite funny
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG]On Behalf Of Stopak, Noam Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 3:40 PM To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: Activists' Shopping list
I find this more than a little ironic. Waffle House, $279K, 100% republican;
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7729 49 15_Re: Help Needed0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Fri, 10 Dec 2004 03:56:58 EST474_US-ASCII Amnon,
Have you tried Jewish Lights? http://www.jewishlights.com/
Aliya
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7779 75 15_Re: Help Needed14_Tova SIlverman26_tovasilverman@NETSCAPE.NET31_Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:31:11 +0200650_ISO-8859-1 Dear Amnon,
Have you looked into publishing the book here in Israel. Contact Ilan Greenfield at Gefen Publishers in Jerusalem. Recently they have begun to publish lots of goodies in English. This is Murray Greenfield's publishing house.
If I can think of anyone else I will send it on.
Regards.
Tova Silverman
amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL wrote:
> Haverot/im > I don't know if this is the done thing but I'm soliciting some help in > getting my book on modern Israeli literature published. I'm looking > for a > publisher and/or agent for BUT IS IT JEWISH: Affirmations of an > Unrepentant [...]
7855 51 20_suggestion for Amnon13_Deborah Meyer18_dsmeyer6@YAHOO.COM31_Fri, 10 Dec 2004 05:13:58 -0800684_us-ascii Your book sounds wonderful, Amnon. Jewish Lights might be a good fit. Of course, it's best if you approach them through someone who knows someone....
http://www.jewishlights.com/submissions.html
--- Deborah Meyer dsmeyer6@yahoo.com 215/837-3314
--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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7907 158 18_Fw: HAPPY CHANUKKA5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:24:34 -0800627_iso-8859-1
To ALL of you on the 'Net and to your loved ones. Subject: Fwd: HAPPY CHANUKKA Steve
Note: forwarded message attached.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
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8066 38 47_=?windows-1255?B?Rnc6IODp7O8g+O7l7yAtIOzm6/jl?=5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:40:50 -0800368_windows-1255 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve" To: "Steve Klein" Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:37 AM Subject: Fw: àéìï øîåï - ìæëøå
> > Apologies for the lack of translation. It is a tract honoring the memory > of > Ilan Ramon and the crew of the Columbia. > > Steve >> >> > [...]
8105 1945 35_=?windows-1255?B?Rnc6IPLp+uXw6e0=?=5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 09:57:47 -0800775_windows-1255 FW: òéúåðéí ----- Original Message ----- From: Ishay To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 4:58 AM Subject: Fw: òéúåðéí
Some of this is pretty funny.
Steve
Subject: Fw: òéúåðéí
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10051 120 28_Hanukkah: Nature vs. History12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:58:08 +0200310_us-ascii Judy, I accidentally deleted the piece you wrote so I lost the thread. But I think the polarity between which chicken came before which egg is a vital disagreement that will be around for a long time and I would like to put in my two cents (as the value of the dollar goes down it gets cheaper.) [...]
10172 66 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 21:19:07 EST607_US-ASCII
Judy
The question is not whether Michael Moore and Tikun have a joint appeal but whether that appeal is to slander Israel as Steve claimed. This has gotten twisted a little. Does anyone have any evidence that Michael Moore and Tikun are getting together to slander Israel?
Sam
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10239 133 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:30:28 -0500352_us-ascii Dear Sam-
I didn't sign on to evaluate how slanderous the material was, only to judge if TIkkun and Moore were launching something together.
The material was incomplete so I didn't read the whole thing. I read enough to conclude that you would probably not think it was slanderous but I can see how Steve undoubtedly would. [...]
10373 62 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sun, 12 Dec 2004 11:02:08 EST496_US-ASCII Judy
Thank you. If they are talking about divestment, that is something that really turns me off too and it makes me want not to be involved with Michael Moore or Tikun.
Sam
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10436 198 20_Hanukkah and Zionism12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:43:31 +0200635_us-ascii Haverim/ot Many years ago Rivka and I translated THE CYCLE OF THE JEWISH YEAR by Professor Eli Schweid. The following lines are excerpted from chapter 7 The Ideational Progression of Hanukkah In its trenchant negation of exile, secular Zionism rejected any expectation of heavenly grace. In its view, such an expectation was the embodiment of everything negative and passive in exilic life. In point of fact, as opposed to the Hasmoneans' audacious belief of having put God to the test by their unstinting performance as their part of the covenant, one frequently hears in Zionist literature an aggressive, agitated note [...]
10635 55 22_Re: Fw: HAPPY CHANUKKA0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Sun, 12 Dec 2004 14:40:28 EST468_US-ASCII couldn't open the link and what I did get was gobbledy gook(spl?).
Ellen
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10691 126 19_A Song for Channuka0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:10:14 EST431_US-ASCII
************** Happy Chanukah!
Casablanca fans can sing the verses to the tune of "As Time Goes By."
With apologies to Sam/Dooley Wilson, play it again:
You must remember this, A bris is still a bris, A chai is just a chai. Pastrami still belongs on rye, As time goes by.
With holidays in view, A Jew is still a Jew, On that you can rely. No matter if we eat tofu As time goes by. [...]
10818 21 54_Website- The Movement for Quality Government in Israel11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:10:47 -0600446_us-ascii It also has English on the sidebar.
http://www.mqg.org.il/
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10840 71 55_[BULK] Politics and Prostitution/ NY Times movie review11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:24:27 -0600446_ISO-8859-1 Politics and Prostitution: Israeli Filmmakers Chart Broad, Gritty Territory By STEVEN ERLANGER
TEL AVIV, Dec. 12 - Tiny countries with big problems tend to make somber, self-conscious films. In this instance, at least, Israel is no exception.
Still, Israeli directors are making more of an effort to entertain as well, working harder to fit lifelike characters around bigger themes of sexual and religious politics. [...]
10912 85 15_Fw: Iran Update5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 13 Dec 2004 07:42:25 -0800642_iso-8859-1
----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: Steve Klein Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:41 AM Subject: Iran Update
Tapping the Hornet's Nest by Michael Rubin Haaretz December 10, 2004 http://www.meforum.org/article/659
During the U.S. presidential campaign, debate over Iran policy received
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10998 325 13_Not ready yet5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 06:25:41 -0800643_iso-8859-1 Sadly sending this along.
Steve
Five Soldiers Killed in Gaza Tunnel Blast
Five Israel Defense Forces soldiers from the Bedouin Desert Reconnaissance Battalion were killed and six were wounded when a tunnel filled with explosives blew up underneath an IDF post near the Rafah terminal in the southern Gaza Strip early Sunday evening, THE JERUSALEM POST reported. The soldiers who lost their life in the attack are: Sgt. Araf al- Zabarga, 20, from Kuseifa; Tarek al-Zidaina, 20, from Rahat; Sgt. Sayid Jaja, 19, from Arara; Pvt. Adham Samir Shehada, 19, from Turan; Hussein Abu Lile, 23, from Ein Mahil. One [...]
11324 84 17_Re: Not ready yet16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:52:22 -0500597_us-ascii What does "Not ready yet" mean in this context?
I find it interesting that the same people in the press and administration that argue that the incredible violence in Iraq is the last throes of desperate people who are losing out to democracy also say that the violence in the territories shows that the Palestinian people are not ready for self government. Holding off on making peace with moderates until the militants stop remembers me of the mother who tells Johnny and his hated twin Jimmy, "I can't give Jimmy a popsicle until the fighting stops." Why should Johnny stop [...]
11409 203 17_Re: Not ready yet5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 12:02:31 -0800568_iso-8859-1 Judy
Thank you for asking about the context of the "Not ready yet". You did some pretty good guesswork, but you missed my point, which was that, sadly, the situation is not at a point that can make the peace process succeed while pulling both the Palesinian Arabs and the Israelis (Jewish and Arab alike) out of the terrible morass of cyclical violence, suffering and stagnation. Apparently, many people of good will are ready, but it just doesn't seem as if the situation is. By the way, I would love to be wrong on this. I wasn't trying to be [...]
11613 94 17_Re: Not ready yet0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 18:32:11 EST563_US-ASCII Steve, apparently you missed the irony of what Judy was saying. You Steve, support Bush. Bush is calling freedom and democracy in Iraq a likely outcome. Your man Bush scoffs at those who say the insurgency in Iraq will frustrate peace and democracy. There is no doubt that the intention of Hamas and Islamic Jihad is to destroy Israel and that these groups have many followers. But there also seems to be some evidence that both Israel and the Palestinians want the election to come off. One would have to be a fool to say that there are not people [...]
11708 213 17_Re: Not ready yet5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:20:00 -0800565_iso-8859-1 Sam
I read your letter.
Steve
To whomever it may concern, I find it amusing that people are still locked in pre-election mentality. That is OK, but it is good to be aware of it. Bush is no longer "my man". Whether you like him or not (I don't), he is OUR President, and he is commanding our troops, in a not-too-easy fight far away, to keep as much trouble distant from us spoiled Americans as possible. I support that action, for reasons of my own, and I support our troops, including my daughter in law, who sends us pictures [...]
11922 90 17_Re: Not ready yet0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 19:31:30 EST550_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/14/2004 7:21:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:
Steve
To whomever it may concern, I find it amusing that people are still locked in pre-election mentality. That is OK, but it is good to be aware of it. Bush is no longer "my man
Steve, he is not my man and this is not a smart war. You endorsed the conduct of this war by supporting Bush. Please be man enough to stand up and take responsibility for the mess "Your man" has stumbled into. [...]
12013 35 17_Re: Not ready yet11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:38:01 -0800
12049 30 17_Re: Not ready yet12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:02:39 -0500345_us-ascii Steve wrote: >Bush is no longer "my man". Whether you like him or not (I don't), he is >OUR President
He's not my president. Never was. Never will be.
David
PS - Lest you think that this is left-wing sour grapes or whatever, I heard this refrain repeatedly from the right during the Clinton presidency. [...]
12080 130 17_Re: Not ready yet16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:00:35 -0500547_us-ascii Dear Steve,
You write:
> Whether you like him or not (I don't), he is OUR President, and he is > commanding our troops, in a not-too-easy fight far away, to keep as > much trouble distant from us spoiled Americans as possible. I support > that action, for reasons of my own, and I support our troops, > including my daughter in law, who sends us pictures and letters of the > like that would cause a mass heart attack (well, maybe a 16-people > heart attack) on Habonet. Our soldiers, for the most part, are doing > an [...]
12211 128 17_Re: Not ready yet11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Tue, 14 Dec 2004 20:08:02 -0800759_us-ascii I support our troops so much that I want them home a.s.a.p.
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12340 121 17_Re: Not ready yet0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:27:19 +0000526_- I find much of this letter most amusing. First you say that Bush isn't "your man." I believe you informed us before the election that a vote for Kerry would be deadly for Israel and that you supported Bush, sorry, that does make him "your man."
That is not the part that made me smile though. Your only defense of the war is that it is to keep the fighting as far away from us "spoiled" Americans as possible. Then you say you support the war for "reasons of (your) own." It is amazing to me that you have ideas [...]
12462 161 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun12_David Mandel20_dlmandel@PACBELL.NET31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 00:01:18 -0800614_iso-8859-1 Judy and Sam: Why is the subject of divestment such a taboo for you? A targeted, coherent campaign of economic action can be a great, nonviolent way to impact a bad actor. And it can be an even better way to educate the public and raise consciousness toward the same result. In fact, such education is really the primary goal and any strategy involving economic action should be devised accordingly. The best current example is a diversified effort to pressure Caterpillar to stop sending militarized bulldozers to the Israeli military to destroy Palestinians homes. See the Jewish Voice for Peace [...]
12624 120 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:44:52 EST639_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/15/2004 3:01:52 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, dlmandel@PACBELL.NET writes:
Judy and Sam: Why is the subject of divestment such a taboo for you? A targeted, coherent campaign of economic action can be a great, nonviolent way to impact a bad actor.
David.
I do think that this divestment thing is dangerous. It is dangerous conceptually. You call Israel a bad actor and clearly Israel has done some bad things. But Israel also moved toward peace and reconciliation more than once. Israel is not a monolith. Moreover Israel is not a lone actor in this struggle. The Palestinians [...]
12745 99 10_divestment0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 08:08:01 -0800636_us-ascii David Mandel wrote: >A targeted, coherent campaign of economic action can be a great, nonviolent >way to impact a bad actor. And it can be an even better way to educate the >public and raise consciousness toward the same result. In fact, such education >is really the primary goal and any strategy involving economic action should be >devised accordingly. >The best current example is a diversified effort to pressure Caterpillar to stop >sending militarized bulldozers to the Israeli military to destroy Palestinians >homes. See the Jewish Voice for Peace web site for details on the approach. >Is this "anti-Israel"? Of [...]
12845 124 14_Re: divestment0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:16:54 EST526_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/15/2004 11:09:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV writes:
I am also interested in hearing why the subject of divestment has such negative connotations for these Habonetters with whom I so often agree. Divestment (I believe) was an important tool in ending apartheid in S. Africa, and can be an effective and non-violent way of expressing disagreement. Many of us practice a similar tactic when we abstain from (or refuse to) patronizing WalMart, Sharon [...]
12970 27 14_Re: divestment0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:54:43 EST563_US-ASCII Kol HaKavod Sam!-- I also feel that the threat of divestment is dangerous, unfair, and sadly, only hurts the people and not the "bad guys." It smacks of "Mommy taking away allowance because you have been a bad boy! (or girl)"-- How do we know that all bulldozers are bad?- The very bulldozer which knocked down a house may have been used to clear away a blown up-bus and innocent dead; or built the wall which seems to have made a dent in suicide bombing attempts. Israel needs support, not threats. And the Palestinians need to know that those who [...]
12998 142 14_Re: divestment0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 10:58:44 -0800582_us-ascii I agree that Israel is neither WalMart nor South Africa. I also agree that contemplation of any degree of divestment must be undertaken with the utmost of care and concern for how the act will be received. After all, the power of divestment is symbolic for the most part. This applies to any situation in which one wants one's economic voice to amplify one's political voice (not just with respect to Israel). While I have not in the past supported divestment from Israel as a political statement, I don't agree that divestment means you "admit you have no ability to [...]
13141 113 14_Re: divestment0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:31:10 EST366_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/15/2004 1:59:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV writes:
Divestment is one way of getting somebody's attention. It is a way that may or may not be appropriate in any given situation, but I don't think the Tikkun/Michael Moore mailing should be dismissed simply because it mentions divestment. [...]
13255 304 14_Re: divestment0_14_LHIAM1@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:50:02 EST540_US-ASCII Sam, Thank You Divestment is not merely a form of pressure...it is punishment. It declares that the state that is having divestiture imposed upon it is to blame and while I would be among the last to say that Israel is blameless... divestiture implies that all the blame can be laid only on one doorstep, and as I am sure most readers of habonet will agree that we all have more than enough blame to spread around. (I have no doubt that there are still some out here who believe that we remain God's chosen and as pure as the [...]
13560 26 14_Re: divestment0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:10:12 -0500670_iso-8859-1 Sam and Hiam have voiced what I would want to say on this issue and I am troubled by both organizations and churches that are promoting divestment.
If you would like to make a small act in this regard, read below. Thanks,
Ken
The Christian Science Monitor is conducting an on-line poll about whether or not churches should divest of companies that do business with Israel. While governments and corporations do not base themselves necessarily on such polls, public perception is a very important aspect of our struggle against divestment. Please go to http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1206/p11s02-lire.html and vote "NO" in the on-line [...]
13587 249 14_Re: divestment16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:12:09 -0500550_us-ascii Dear Sharon, David and others.
The association with the divestment company to end apartheid in South Africa is among the reasons that I strongly oppose divestment in Israel. I was involved early in South African divestment in college. South Africa was a pariah state. I do not see Israel as a pariah state. Rather, Israel is part of a complex two-party conflict. I adamantly believe that Israel must get out of the territories and I want to support those elements in Israeli society and in the Israeli economy with whom I agree. [...]
13837 125 14_Re: divestment0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 12:23:43 -0800572_us-ascii I have NOT said that I am in favor of divestment. As a matter of fact, I agree with all of Sam's points in opposition to divestment mentioned below. However, I also don't believe that mentioning divestment should automatically disqualify a person or group from consideration. I don't have the mailing in front of me, but my recollection is that a number of possible tactics are listed, one of which is divestment. It seems to me that a discussion similar to this one we've been having on Habonet could be of benefit to people in the Tikkun Community. If you [...]
13963 43 27_Some Facts about Divestment12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:01:53 -0500
14007 315 14_Re: divestment5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:10:26 -0800551_iso-8859-1 Sharon
Just so you are able to understand some people's reactions to your divestment/non-divestment idea, I would like you to ponder what it is you are saying/not saying. (At least it is clearer why you were able to so easily accept Kerry's "I did it/but then I undid it" style. You did not have to say you are in favor of divestment; just that you are in favor of considering it. Incredible! What if a person said "I am not in favor of Genocide; just of considering it"? If you are not able to make the connection, and say you [...]
14323 127 14_Re: divestment0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 17:13:51 EST382_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/15/2004 11:09:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV writes:
Many of us practice a similar tactic when we abstain from (or refuse to) patronizing WalMart, Nestle, Starbucks, &c. It is using one's "economic vote" (also known as "putting your money where your mouth is" or "hitting them in the pocketbook"). [...]
14451 137 14_Re: divestment0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:35:47 -0800587_us-ascii On those fairly rare occasions when I want to make a coffee-house purchase, I try to patronize smaller, more local companies than Starbucks. I try to be conscious of where I am at any given time, and that includes taking advantage of things that are only available in that place. Starbucks is available everywhere and crowds out more home-grown alternatives. It is the same strategy as patronizing your local independent bookstore rather than Borders, or your local hardware store rather than Home Depot. Even in Seattle, there may still be some independent coffee houses. [...]
14589 215 14_Re: divestment5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:33:49 -0800350_iso-8859-1 As I don't want to get into negativity with Mr. Mandel in response to his Israel attitude, I am putting the question out to other members on the "Net. Is there anyone else among us that is of a mind with this David Mandel? I am not judging, mind you. I am just a bit creeped out, and think that maybe I am over-reacting. Please help. [...]
14805 221 14_Re: divestment0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:44:13 -0800566_us-ascii This is why I love Internet discussions -- no matter what you say, someone will misinterpret it. I don't have any idea what Steve is talking about with "why you were able to so easily accept Kerry's "I did it/but then I undid it" style." I believe I was pretty clear that I held my nose and voted for Kerry. I also have not said that I am in favor of considering divestment. I said (plainly, I thought) that mention of divestment should not be an automatic disqualification from consideration of a group or individual. If discussion of divestment were [...]
15027 82 14_Re: divestment0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 18:06:29 EST342_US-ASCII I understand that, Sharon, but Starbucks started out as one of those independent places; they just became very successful at what they do. Your reason is the same as my dd.
Interestingly, they were NOT successful in Israel--apparently couldn't get a toehold where there are already many small, independent coffee houses. [...]
15110 57 14_Re: divestment0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:30:12 EST481_US-ASCII I am late to this discussion so sorry if this has been answered. Why Starbucks?
Ellen
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15168 42 14_Re: divestment12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:54:09 -0500484_us-ascii Steve,
I think you're over-reacting. Although it may be foreign to your experience, it is possible to deeply love someone (or a country) and at the same time be repulsed by some of their actions.
As I outlined in another message, I personally do not support the divestment campaign aimed at Israel. Nevertheless, I understand why somebody who loves Israel might feel that divestment is the best way to hammer home the message that the occupation must end. [...]
15211 70 14_Re: divestment16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:29:12 -0500400_us-ascii The mailing I saw clearly listed divestment as a possible tactic to be considered in the Moore/Tikkun partnership. I don't know anything more about it than that. I think we all agree that considering something as a tactic for an organizaton to adopt is very different than discussing it as we are doing here. For me, if divestment is on the table, that's a table I don't want to be at. [...]
15282 163 14_Re: divestment12_Jessica Bonn21_jessicab@BEZEQINT.NET31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:06:28 +0200580_iso-8859-1 There are large (not int'l) coffee chains in Israel and at least one of them, Cafe Hillel, treats its workers very badly - the Jews are treated despicably, and the Arabs, worse. A friend's daughter worked there and is now suing them. When I helped her inquire re her rights through the Workers' Hotline, they mentioned that she is not the only one. I do not think that there is any free trade coffee in Is. jessie ----- Original Message ----- From: DebALev@AOL.COM To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 1:06 AM Subject: Re: divestment [...]
15446 76 9_Starbucks16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:36:19 -0500581_us-ascii As far as I can figure out, the objection to Starbucks is that it is driving everything else out of the market and standardizing yet another aspect of life. This is a justifiable concern in DC and other big cities where there is a dense market and lots of individual coffee shops could potentially thrive if there weren't a Starbucks on every corner. However, the coming of Starbucks to the shopping center near my son's school in Annandale,VA is like the appearance of an oasis of charm and sophistication in an area where the previous choices were limited to Pizza [...]
15523 524 14_Re: divestment5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:50:17 -0800438_iso-8859-1 Sharon
That was my point. Discussing genocide as a punishment for Israel's "errant behavior" is also unacceptable to me, although on a much greater level. I hope you can see the parallel. I don't have any other way of explaining it to you.
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 2:44 PM Subject: Re: divestment [...]
16048 42 51_seeking current information on the Kibbutz movement14_Jamie Beaumont24_jamie_beaumont@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 06:08:16 -0800549_us-ascii Good morning, I am working in a highschool with 2500+ students, very few of whom are Jewish in NM. One of the history teachers and I were chatting last week and it came up that I was a volunteer on 3 kibbutzim (20 years ago). He asked a lot of questions and requested that I visit his classroom next semester. I told him that I would be happy to talk to his students about my experiences but that the kibbutz movement has gone through some changes since my experiences. Could someone recommend some good sources for me to research and [...]
16091 30 55_Re: seeking current information on the Kibbutz movement0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:14:20 -0500555_iso-8859-1 Jamie:
In my opinion, this book covers this subject really well.
Our Hearts Invented a Place: Can Kibbutzim Survive in Today's Israel?
http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/biblio?inkey=17-0801439302-0
Good luck,
Ken
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16122 21 55_Re: seeking current information on the Kibbutz movement0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:39:39 EST461_US-ASCII For pictures, you can go to www.gpo.il.org (I think)...and type in "kibbutz" and you can find some amazing photos...sue (Israel government Press Office)
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16144 72 55_Re: seeking current information on the Kibbutz movement11_Yona Prital24_shaliach@HABONIMDROR.ORG31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:03:18 -0500644_us-ascii Shalom Jamie I recommend that you will search on Google, there are many sites about the changes on Kibbutz. Here you can find a highly recommended link. http://research.haifa.ac.il/~kibbutz/main.html About Habonim Dror north America and the changes in the Kibbutz Movement, there are exiting things going on. The Movement is connected to the New Kibbutz Movement that establishing Urban and Educational Kibbutzim. We have 2 Urban Kibbutzim in Israel:Kvutzat Yovel in Migdal Ha'emek and a new Urban Kibbutz in Haifa that was established a month ago by members of Mazkirut HDNA. If you would like to have more information about the [...]
16217 52 10_divestment12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:08:49 +0200536_iso-8859-1 Debbie you wrote: I understand that, Sharon, but Starbucks started out as one of those independent places; they just became very successful at what they do. Your reason is the same as my dd.
Interestingly, they were NOT successful in Israel--apparently couldn't get a toehold where there are already many small, independent coffee houses. Actually it isn’t economics –( listen to me turning my back on dialectical materialism,) it’s the culture. I also smiled when you wrote: To me, size alone doesn't do it duh? [...]
16270 126 14_Re: divestment12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:12:32 -0500534_us-ascii Dear Steve,
The pressure must be unbearable. How ever do you manage?
Get well soon,
Noam
________________________________
From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 5:10 PM To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: divestment
Sharon
... I will also stop bothering you with these "How could you possibly think that way?" questions. Another weight off my mind. [...]
16397 89 14_Re: divestment0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:43:38 -0800422_us-ascii Amnon Hadary wrote: >But then I found that the sense in which divestment was being used on >Habonet was " An order to an offending party to rid itself of property; it >has the purpose of depriving the defendant of the gains of wrongful behavior. " >I think that for many American Jews divestment is uncomfortable because it >is reminiscent of anti-Semitism in the thirties -- Jewish pawnbrokers, >slumlords. [...]
16487 144 31_coffee culture (was divestment)0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:51:26 EST580_UTF-8
In a message dated 12/16/2004 3:10:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:
I also smiled when you wrote: To me, size alone doesn't do it duh? Glad you caught that! There ought to be some cute term for email quirks that occur to you as soon as you click "send."
I have found that what you refer to as coffee culture varies depending on where you live in the US. Yes, there are areas where you grab your latte and go, such as the many drive-thru latte stands in the Pacific Northwest, but there are also many places where having [...]
16632 70 14_Re: divestment0_13_JLCAA@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:06:51 EST561_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/16/04 3:10:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:
> And now to divestment
Divestment in relation to Israel usually means divestment of Israel Bonds by pension funds and other institutional holders of financial instruments. For example, the city of Somerville, MA (between Cambridge and Boston) was recently asked to divest $250K in Israel Bonds from its portfolio, and to dump its stock in Caterpillar (because they sell bulldozers to Israel that are used to knock down Palestinian homes). [...]
16703 76 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:19:03 +0000632_- The recent discussion thread on disinvestment has focused on the positions of Michael Moore and Rabbi Michael Lerner regarding a divestment campaign for pressuring Israel to make concessions for achieving peace with the Palestinians.
A cursory review of material on the internet leads me to conclude that Rabbi Lerner is in agreement with much of what has been stated here by Sam, Judy, and others, i.e., that support for a campaign of divestment against Israel, at least under the current circumstances, would be wrong. For example, Rabbi Moore wrote back in October 2002, http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/285, [...]
16780 395 44_Re: divestment- an important ( long) article0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 17:37:07 EST384_UTF-8 This was in our November issue:
A Courageous Christian Friend
By Harold M. Schulweis
The Reverend Doug Huneke is one of our people1s great Christian friends. in
our time. I do not regard myself as an alarmist. To the contrary, I look for
the goodness of humanity and am inspired by the most consequential verse in [...]
17176 39 44_Re: divestment- an important ( long) article0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:16:14 +0000520_- I think this (Christian) fellow pretty much sums up the arguments against divestment clearly and accurately. But I was wondering about another part of his statement and what people here thought about it. He condemned Christians who try to convert Jews. I don't understand what is wrong with that. We in Habonet apparently see nothing wrong with trying to persuade each other to change our views on a variety of subjects, why would trying to convince someone that your religion is correct and theirs is wrong bad? [...]
17216 28 44_Re: divestment- an important ( long) article0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:57:31 EST608_US-ASCII Richard- I have spoken with Rev. Huneke and found him to be incredibly understanding and wise. I believe he realizes the fact that most Christians who want to convert Jews to Christianity are following in the footsteps of a dangerous precedent (Crusades, the Inquisition), and that it is downright "wrong" to proselytize because it only leads to dangerous and harmful conclusions. He is an amazingly "staunch" man who will do what he believes is "right and just"---I don'tknow of any Jewish people who go out and try to convert Christians to Judaism-a s a matter of fact, conversion in Judaism [...]
17245 23 47_PS-Re: divestment- an important ( long) article0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:59:14 EST560_US-ASCII The concept of a "right or wrong" religion is what I was talking about- there is no such thing- there is "belief" and faith, or- as in Judaism, if one is a Zionist, nationalism; but that doesn't mean that one "nationalism" is better than another...sue
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17269 115 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:28:15 -0800397_iso-8859-1 Chomsky and his ilk are only "leading" to people that think as he does. He is anathema to anybody even remotely emotionally connected to Israel. Of course, what do I know?
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Goodman" To: Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:19 PM Subject: Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun [...]
17385 396 71_Fw: Fw:Boycott Israel...how to do it properly....if you are anti-Israel5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:46:54 -0800476_iso-8859-1 Boy, is THIS going to piss off some people.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Fw:Boycott Israel...how to do it properly....if you are anti-Israel
Subject: Boycott Israel...how to do it properly....if you are anti-Israel
OK. So I understand that you are ticked off at Israel, and in love with the Palestinians. That's fine with me, as long as you have truly weighed up all the facts. [...]
17782 88 75_Re: Fw: Fw:Boycott Israel...how to do it properly....if you are anti-Israel0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:59:31 EST400_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/16/2004 11:49:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:
An Israeli company has developed a simple blood test that distinguishes between mild and more severe cases of Multiple Sclerosis. So, if you know anyone suffering from MS, tell them to ignore the Israeli patent that may, more accurately, diagnose their symptoms. [...]
17871 49 55_Re: seeking current information on the Kibbutz movement14_Jamie Beaumont24_jamie_beaumont@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:31:05 -0800737_us-ascii Hi, thanks for the help. Unfotunately, this page didn't work, just got an error message but I will keep searching. Take care! :o) Jamie
--- LiberHawke@AOL.COM wrote:
> For pictures, you can go to www.gpo.il.org (I > think)...and type in "kibbutz" > and you can find some amazing photos...sue (Israel > government Press Office) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The Jewish Network, http://shamash.org, > a service of Hebrew College, which offers online > courses and > an online MA in Jewish Studies, > http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > > To unsubscribe email: > HABONET-unsubscribe-request@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG > [...]
17921 20 55_Re: seeking current information on the Kibbutz movement12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:21:47 +0200417_iso-8859-1 Looks like it should be gpo.org.il
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17942 64 27_re information on kibbutzim13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:38:27 +0200510_iso-8859-1 Jamie, If you will contact me at: moshes7@netvision.net.il
I may be able to help you.
Moshe Kibbutz Hulda
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18007 57 13_Rustle Rustle12_Alex Sharone22_mazkir@HABONIMDROR.ORG31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 08:59:22 -0500565_US-ASCII Shalom Habonet,
As the current Mazkir T'nua of our youth movement, I want to extend an introduction to everyone on this list. As a mostly silent lurker in this forum, I decided it is time to start rustling a little.
As for a quick update on what's going on in the movement, we are gearing up for our annual Winter Seminar, this year being held in Ontario, Canada. Immediately following seminar I will be leading a group of Ma'apilim on our Mifgash in Israel trip, the 5th winter that we are running such a program for the leaders of our [...]
18065 21 75_Re: Fw: Fw:Boycott Israel...how to do it properly....if you are anti-Israel0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:47:23 -0500441_iso-8859-1 Thanks Steve for that!.....it says it all............susie
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18087 73 14_Re: divestment0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 13:10:48 EST603_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/15/2004 5:37:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:
I am just a bit creeped out, and think that maybe I am over-reacting.
Your very creeped out. You voted for Bush. How much creepier can it get than that?
Sam
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18161 549 14_Re: divestment5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:11:07 -0800625_iso-8859-1 Sharon
I know I have already responded to this letter, but I realised there is an important piece missing. Thank you for pointing out the idea of perhaps "misinterpreting" your comments. Please consider the idea that your comments weren't misinterpreted, but rather that they might have been taken as repugnant even though you never intended them to be that. Not every offensive remark ever made was intended to be offensive. (Who would know that better than me?!) My point was, and still is, that "considering divestment" is only a few shades less repugnant than "considering genocide" to a whole lot [...]
18711 193 14_Re: divestment0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:23:46 +0000654_- Do we still have the contest for the silliest thing said on Habonet going? If so then I nominate Steve's comment, and I quote, "that "considering divestment" is only a few shades less repugnant than "considering genocide"," for the award. -------------- Original message --------------
Sharon
I know I have already responded to this letter, but I realised there is an important piece missing. Thank you for pointing out the idea of perhaps "misinterpreting" your comments. Please consider the idea that your comments weren't misinterpreted, but rather that they might have been taken as repugnant even though you never intended them [...]
18905 312 14_Re: divestment0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:58:04 -0800789_us-ascii Sometimes its best to just say nothing.
Sharon Gates
Steve Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 12/17/2004 10:11 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh
To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG cc: Subject: Re: divestment
Sharon
I know I have already responded to this letter, but I realised there is an important piece missing. Thank you for pointing out the idea of perhaps "misinterpreting" your comments. Please consider the idea that your comments weren't misinterpreted, but rather that they might have been taken as repugnant even though you never intended them to be that. Not every offensive remark ever [...]
19218 267 33_**Did the Jews Steal Christmas?**16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:27:24 -0500391_us-ascii The following by MJ Rosenberg is an excerpt from his most recent (12/17/04) IPF Friday column published by the Israel Policy Forum.
It's hard to believe but there is a movement among elements of the extreme right to attack American Jews for "taking Christ out of Christmas." These ugly manifestations are filling the talk radio air waves and far-right websites. [...]
19486 260 17_chiloni downfall?16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:35:44 -0500665_us-ascii http://jrep.com/Columnists/Article-1.html
Stuart Schoffman: Wrecking and Building
As I watched Tommy Lapid fall like Humpty-Dumpty, I thought of Yudka and Berdichevsky. Me'igra rama lebira amikta, as the kabbalists like to say in Aramaic: From a high roof to a deep pit. Jewish history strikes again.
There is a famous Hebrew short story called "The Sermon," penned in 1942 by the Israeli author Haim Hazaz. The scene is a kibbutz meeting; Yudka, a rock-hewer by trade, Russian by birth, and unaccustomed to public speaking, delivers a long riff on the Jewish condition. "'I want to state,' Yudka spoke with an effort, in [...]
19747 125 14_Re: divestment0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 11:26:42 EST402_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/15/2004 5:14:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:
Just so you are able to understand some people's reactions to your divestment/non-divestment idea, I would like you to ponder what it is you are saying/not saying. (At least it is clearer why you were able to so easily accept Kerry's "I did it/but then I undid it" style. [...]
19873 460 37_Re: **Did the Jews Steal Christmas?**5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 08:32:55 -0800357_iso-8859-1 Elihu
Boy, am I gonna get slammed for this one!
I read the O'Reilly statement a few times over, and I am on his side 100%. Hanukah is over (It was wonderful, thank you.) New Year is not yet here. The ONLY holiday game in town at the moment is Christmas!!!!!!!!!! Why would I object to hearing Merry Christmas at Christmas?!!!! [...]
20334 144 37_Re: **Did the Jews Steal Christmas?**0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:06:04 +0000574_- I happen to agree (somewhat) with Steve on this one. I see nothing particularly anti-semetic about "Merry Christmas" (though being an Anglophile I prefer the sound of "Happy Christmas") nor about what O'Riely said. Though I think O'Riely is a compete and utter idiot, anti-intellectual, simpleton, braggart and bully and I do think Israel could find a better friend. However, what demographics are you looking at Steve, which shows that Christianity will become a minority in the US?? The going populations in the US are Hispanics, who are almost entirely Christian. [...]
20479 130 59_=?windows-1255?B?Rnc6IOfp9OQg+ewg5Onu6e0g5OTtICggTUcgKQ==?=5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 09:02:41 -0800317_windows-1255 I am hoping this will give as much pleasure to you as it did to me. I lived in Haifa from '67 to '70.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: dory sarid To: ruth ; noa ; niso ; eliezer iacubovici Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 9:34 AM Subject: Fw: çéôä ùì äéîéí ääí ( MG ) [...]
20610 806 37_Re: **Did the Jews Steal Christmas?**5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:03:07 -0800431_iso-8859-1 Richard
This may offend you,....but I agree with you on every point! (Well, except for the Happy Christmas. It just doesn't sound right to me. Oh well.)
Steve
PS I still owe you my personal thoughts on the real reasons we are in Iraq, and why I think we will be there as a "presence" a good long while. These are only educated hunches, as I do not have a secret "back door" to the White House. [...]
21417 63 18_Haifa Then and Now5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:06:30 -0800528_iso-8859-1 Was anyone able to receive the Haifa show?
Let me know privately, as I suspect the Habonet firewalls shredded the attachment.
Steve
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21481 613 37_Re: **Did the Jews Steal Christmas?**5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:11:25 -0800436_iso-8859-1 Richard
I wasn't looking at any published studies. I figured that by 2525 anything could happen because of a myriad of factors (people blending, faith watering down, high birth-rates of non-Christian populations, etc.)
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: Re: **Did the Jews Steal Christmas?** [...]
22095 68 10_News Flash5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:23:42 -0800594_iso-8859-1 Habonet
Today, Dec. 18, 2004, The Los Angeles Times wrote an article fair and balanced concerning Israel and the Palestinians in Gaza. Never thought I'd see it, but there it is, in black and white. Page A16. "Israel Raids Gaza Camp As Sharon Shores Up Coalition".
Steve
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22164 20 76_=?utf-8?B?UmU6IEZ3OiDXl9eZ16TXlCDXqdecINeU15nXnteZ150g15TXlNedICggTUcgKQ==?=0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:06:21 -0500445_iso-8859-1 Steve- I got the email w/Hebrew text- but no download or attachment or link--can you send that to me privately??? (Liberhake@aol)- sue
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22185 460 79_[BULK] US Electors use electoral college to protest election fraud/Ohio/Ukraine14_Albert Kaufman18_albi@EARTHLINK.NET31_Sat, 18 Dec 2004 17:15:46 -0800554_iso-8859-1 Shalom, > > Since I was so involved in the election - April-November, I've been somewhat > involved in the post-election, vote recount, fraud, etc. actions/activity. > I imagine that unless you are directly involved in it, you're not seeing > much about what's happening in Ohio, NM, Florida and elsewhere - but I get a > dozen e-mails like these every day! There's still a lot > going on, and here are just two examples. My end of the year wrap-up is > coming > together in my head and I'm looking forward to seeing friends in Seattle > [...]
22646 111 14_Re: News Flash13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 19 Dec 2004 13:40:00 +0200401_iso-8859-1 Steve, Nice to hear that Los Anegles Times wrote something nice about Israel. It would also be nice when you refer to an article to give us the URL. Perhaps it isn't too late to read it or you may have copied it to your computer.
Moshe Hulda ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: News Flash [...]
22758 58 26_The Survival of Secularism15_Nechemia Meyers23_meyers@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sun, 19 Dec 2004 17:29:12 +0200410_windows-1255 Shalom Chevre,
Contrary to some communications carried by Habonet, Israeli secularism is not dead despite the fact that Shinui has left the government. A large percentage of Israelis, among them most ex-Habonim people, share its opposition to religious coercion and to ultra-Orthodox blackmail. So whatever happens to that particular party, those issues won't go away. Nechemia Meyers [...]
22817 23 19_Haifa urban kibbutz12_Meir Hurwitz21_meir_h@MACCABI.ORG.IL31_Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:09:47 +0200461_us-ascii Could I have the address of the new urban kibbutz in Haifa ?
Meir Hurwitz
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22841 343 25_Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 10:56:46 +0200296_iso-8859-1 Chevre, in answer to a letter by Jamie, I sent him a copy of an article that appeared in Saturday's Jer. Post., called, "Deflating a Myth". I believe that it is of interest to many people on this list and I'm posting it here, not as an attachment since many of you won't open it. [...]
23185 696 29_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 06:50:08 -0800546_iso-8859-1 Moshe
My kibbutz experience was much different, and so was that of my son and my daughter, growing up in Kibbutz Netiv Ha Lamed Hey, near Hulda. We were with the children from 4:15 'til almost 8 PM. When they were with their bunkmates overnight, there was, as I remember, supervision. I will check that part out to be sure, as well as finding out what they thought of the whole deal. I could be wrong, but the situation my kids had, as far as I know, couldn't have been beaten anywhere, any time. As you well know, each of [...]
23882 112 18_about kibbutz life13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:36:12 +0200550_iso-8859-1 Steve, you wrote: Moshe
My kibbutz experience was much different, and so was that of my son and my daughter, growing up in Kibbutz Netiv Ha Lamed Hey, near Hulda. We were with the children from 4:15 'til almost 8 PM. When they were with their bunkmates overnight, there was, as I remember, supervision. I will check that part out to be sure, as well as finding out what they thought of the whole deal. I could be wrong, but the situation my kids had, as far as I know, couldn't have been beaten anywhere, any time. As you well [...]
23995 433 51_Fw: THE ARABS WITHOUT THE JEWS: ROOTS OF A TRAGE DY5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:08:06 -0800639_iso-8859-1
I don't have the URL for this one, but I agree it deserves to be passed along and read.
Steve
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:47 PM Subject: Fw: THE ARABS WITHOUT THE JEWS: ROOTS OF A TRAGE DY
This extraordinary article is by Magdi Allam, an Egyptian-Muslim columnist and writer living in Italy. Allam was among 1,000 people who attended the Milan premiere of Pierre Rehov's film about the flight of the Jews from Arab countries, 'The Silent Exodus'. This is my unofficial translation of Allam's article, first published in Italian by the Corriere della Sera on 19 November. [...]
24429 177 20_Re: the Klein Puzzle12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:30:00 -0500594_us-ascii
Hi Steve,
Thanks for sharing some of your own thoughts rather than forwarding. Much appreciated.
One might argue that Al Qaida attacked us in 1993 and then it took 8 years before they put together another attack on US soil. Given that they have historically taken around 2 or 3 years between major operations (e.g. WTC I, Khobar Towers, Kenya/Tanzania, US Cole, 9/11) I don't think we have any idea whether Bush has put them off balance one iota. What evidence, other than the absence of an attack to date, do you have for your assertion that some of Bush's [...]
24607 245 20_Re: the Klein Puzzle5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:50:14 -0800677_iso-8859-1 None. Just hoping.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: Stopak, Noam To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Monday, December 20, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: the Klein Puzzle
Hi Steve,
Thanks for sharing some of your own thoughts rather than forwarding. Much appreciated.
One might argue that Al Qaida attacked us in 1993 and then it took 8 years before they put together another attack on US soil. Given that they have historically taken around 2 or 3 years between major operations (e.g. WTC I, Khobar Towers, Kenya/Tanzania, US Cole, 9/11) I don't think we have any idea whether Bush has put them [...]
24853 42 23_Re: Haifa urban kibbutz11_Yona Prital24_shaliach@HABONIMDROR.ORG31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:08:00 -0500705_us-ascii Meir Hurwitz Here is their address Ari Levy
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Meir Hurwitz Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 4:10 PM To: HABONET@LISTSERV.SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Haifa urban kibbutz
Could I have the address of the new urban kibbutz in Haifa ?
Meir Hurwitz
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24896 260 29_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim14_Jamie Beaumont24_jamie_beaumont@YAHOO.COM31_Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:58:47 -0800568_us-ascii Wow, this is so different from the experience I had 21 years ago at Maagan Michael where I worked in a Beit Yeledim (Children's House) with three year olds (while attending ulpon). Two other women and I spent the day with six cuties. We visited the parents at their palces of work. Sometimes we saw the parents at lunch. After the parents were done working for the day they picked up their kids and spent the afternoon and evening with them. They brought them back to the children's house at bedtime and did the night-time rituals of tucking in, reading [...]
25157 281 29_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:37:42 +0200356_iso-8859-1 Jamie, the period you spent in Israel in the various kibbutzim have changed so that they are unrecognizable. Perhaps we should accept the change as inevitable. In a developing civilization, nothing stand still. You were on Barkai as well? I know a number of people there, probably older than you. Are you still in contact with any of them? [...]
25439 256 29_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim14_Jamie Beaumont24_jamie_beaumont@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 21 Dec 2004 03:34:38 -0800530_us-ascii I was very close to the Livney family in the States. After I graduated from high school I wanted to try living on a kibbutz but I didn't want to go on workshop. My group was very fractured. So I went to Israel with a ggod friend. First we went to Geva where we had been assigned by the kibbutz office in Tel Aviv. I visited Avi and Batsheva Livney at Barkai three months after I arrived and decided I liked Barkai better than Geva. Geva wasn't very open to outsiders. Barkai became my second home. I lived there for [...]
25696 287 29_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 21 Dec 2004 13:58:52 +0200565_iso-8859-1 What a coincidence. Avi and Batsheva are friends of ours. We now meet once a month with other members of our Inter-Kibbutz Committee. I'll definitely will be reminding them of our correspondence. From what I gather, there is lots of illness in the familyh. I didn't get all the info but cancer seems to have spread to the second generation. They have a son on kibbutz Gezer. I believe he's now studying law and maybe even finished by now. It's the result of the privatization process. He had to have an occupation or starve and chose to go into law [...]
25984 261 29_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim14_Jamie Beaumont24_jamie_beaumont@YAHOO.COM31_Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:08:57 -0800522_us-ascii Hi, Moshe, Avi and Batsheva were like parents to me for many years, in the States and Israel. They are terrific people. I have not seen them since I left Israel but have spoken with them by phone when they were in the States. I was like a fifth child fitting in in age right in the middle. Donny (Dan Elazar) lives on Gezer. His wife's name is Peaches. I'm not sure how many kids they have. I didn't know about going to law school. Tamar is the youngest child. She just wrote to me from her kibbutz with the [...]
26246 55 13_where are you16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 07:19:03 -0500477_us-ascii I had email problems over the weekend and have not gotten any habonet email since then. Help! Judy Gelman
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26302 59 17_Re: Kibbutz Myths12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 18:14:36 +0200602_us-ascii Jamie and Moshe, I believe that the operative sentence in the article by SARAH HALEVI, is > "Kibbutz members... are no longer revolutionaries > serving their country. They are normal human beings ..."
A debate in the early days revolved around the question of the ultimate goal of the Zionist movement: was it to create conditions that would make Israel like all other nations - k'khol hagoyim i.e. normalization. Or was it utopian ala A D Gordon and Buber. The first leader lived in Kvutzat Deganya and the second declared the kibbutz to be "the experiment that didn't fail." But [...]
26362 21 43_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim-smaller world0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:07:29 EST583_US-ASCII When we were doing research for the Exodus project- we were looking for crew members of the actual Exodus itself- and Varda Livney was kind enough to contact me and we talked a lot about her father....If you talke to Varda- please send her our regards! ( Sue Liberman)...sue
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26384 24 17_Re: Kibbutz Myths0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:12:42 EST580_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/22/04 8:16:29 AM, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:
<< I wrote "one summer evening" because at that time even fans were scarce in our rooms. While outside on the lawn mosquitos were readily available. >>
Amnon- could you post that?- susie
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26409 37 42_Re: Kibbutz Myths-PS-the place of "tfilah"0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Wed, 22 Dec 2004 13:21:08 EST645_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/22/04 8:16:29 AM, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes:
<< A debate in the early days revolved around the question of the ultimate goal of the Zionist movement: was it to create conditions that would make Israel like all other nations - k'khol hagoyim i.e. normalization. >>
It would seem, then, that we are a schizophrenic people- "shelo asanu k'goyei ha'aratzot"-- was the phrase that casued me much pain as a "youngster"--since my Zionist education was preaching the opposite (Go- Hans Kohn and "Nationalism"!). How could we not be like everyone else, and yet yearn to be like everyone else?....Our [...]
26447 1070 29_[BULK] Orthodoxy meets Reggae16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:35:16 -0500622_us-ascii
The Wall Street Journal
December 23, 2004
MUSIC
DOW JONES REPRINTS This copy is for your personal, non-commercial use only. To order presentation-ready copies for distribution to your colleagues, clients or customers, use the Order Reprints tool at the bottom of any article or visit: www.djreprints.com .
. See a sample reprint in PDF format . . Order a reprint of this article now . [...]
27518 280 29_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim16_Katherine Lavine26_holycowfoods@EARTHLINK.NET31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:23:56 -0800576_US-ASCII FYI: Donnie Livney's wife's name is Patches, not Peaches!
> [Original Message] > From: Jamie Beaumont > To: > Date: 12/21/2004 4:14:41 PM > Subject: Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim > > Hi, Moshe, > Avi and Batsheva were like parents to me for many > years, in the States and Israel. They are terrific > people. I have not seen them since I left Israel but > have spoken with them by phone when they were in the > States. I was like a fifth child fitting in in age > right in the middle. > Donny (Dan [...]
27799 53 43_Re: Deflating a Myth-kibbuzim-smaller world14_Jamie Beaumont24_jamie_beaumont@YAHOO.COM31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:43:24 -0800614_us-ascii Dear Sue, Varda lurks on this list. I will be happy to give her your regards and will forward your note to her. All the best!!! Jamie
--- LiberHawke@AOL.COM wrote:
> When we were doing research for the Exodus project- > we were looking for crew > members of the actual Exodus itself- and Varda > Livney was kind enough to > contact me and we talked a lot about her > father....If you talke to Varda- please > send her our regards! ( Sue Liberman)...sue > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The HABONET mailing list is hosted by > Shamash: The [...]
27853 66 42_Re: Kibbutz Myths-PS-the place of "tfilah"14_Allan Pristoop17_cpristoo@BCPL.NET31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:35:14 -0500649_iso-8859-1 What a wonderful statement that says so much so concisely. Allan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Kibbutz Myths-PS-the place of "tfilah"
> In a message dated 12/22/04 8:16:29 AM, amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL writes: > > << A debate in the early days revolved around the question of the ultimate > goal of the Zionist movement: was it to create conditions that would make > Israel like all other nations - k'khol hagoyim i.e. normalization. >> > > It would seem, then, that we are a schizophrenic people- "shelo asanu > [...]
27920 195 53_[BULK] Under the Tuscan Sun/part 1/ Ha'aretz/ Dec. 2411_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:54:47 -0600313_us-ascii Under the Tuscan sun Once he was Israel's preeminent journalist, the chief chronicler of the Israeli story. Now he is known throughout the world but has become nearly anonymous here. After seven decades, Amos Elon is packing up his Jerusalem apartment for a permanent move to Tuscany. By Ari Shavit [...]
28116 51 59_Under the Tuscan Sun/ They Wanted a Leader/ Ha'aretz Dec 2411_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:57:32 -0600587_us-ascii 'They wanted a leader'
Were you opposed to the occupation from the beginning? At the end of the Six-Day War, did you already comprehend that it was a disaster?
Amos Elon: "It started even before the war. During the waiting period, everyone was 'rumbling' for battle, as the said then. No, they were 'galloping' to battle. You remember? It's very powerful in Shabtai Teveth's book "Exposed in the Turret." Everyone was galloping to battle. and I was called up to serve in the south and I wrote an article and sent it from there to Schocken. And in the article [...]
28168 157 21_Labor's New Ministers16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 24 Dec 2004 07:05:13 -0500465_us-ascii
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=518460
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28326 43 20_Op-Ed from Mark Seal0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Fri, 24 Dec 2004 18:18:25 +0000525_- Mark Seal is an ex-member of Gezer and an ex-Habonimer and has an interesting article in today's Haaretz.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/518470.html
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28370 25 3_CSM16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Fri, 24 Dec 2004 20:28:33 -0500466_us-ascii The Christian Science Monitor is conducting an on-line poll about whether or not churches should divest of companies that do business with Israel. While governments and corporations do not base themselves necessarily on such polls, public perception is a very important aspect of our struggle against divestment. Please go to http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1206/p11s02-lire.html and vote "NO" in the on-line poll. Please forward this message to others. [...]
28396 17 35_new website in Hebrew - Savfa Ivrit11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Sat, 25 Dec 2004 07:20:55 -0600398_us-ascii http://www.safa-ivrit.org/
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28414 141 28_Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 25 Dec 2004 18:46:40 +0200619_iso-8859-1 why do you put yourself down in "their" eyes ? you are head and shoulders above them . shavua tov, pearl
> Chomsky and his ilk are only "leading" to people that think as he does. He > is anathema to anybody even remotely emotionally connected to Israel. Of > course, what do I know? > > Steve > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Goodman" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun > > > > The recent discussion thread on disinvestment has focused on the [...]
28556 132 33_Fwd: Black Flags and Yellow Stars12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:26:15 +0200598_us-ascii >Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 22:22:09 +0200 >To: LHIAM1@aol.com >From: Amnon Hadary >Subject: Black Flags and Yellow Stars > >The reconnaissance tiyul of Peace Now was held last week on a > gorgeous clear winter day after a spell of cloudy and rainy weather. I > know that Shalom Achshav coordinated things with the IDF, Police, and > Civil Administration getting a green light for the demonstration and > study day (yom iyun) from all three authorities. But I didn't > think they had a direct line to god or to her weather bureau. The > organization and planning [...]
28689 75 24_Re: Op-Ed from Mark Seal0_13_SC523@AOL.COM29_Sat, 25 Dec 2004 18:48:17 EST328_US-ASCII Kol hakavod to Mark - this piece really needed to be said.
BTW, there is no such thing as an ex-Habonimer - it stays in the blood. In our New York Israeli Dance Ensemble that has performed in the Israeli Dance Festival for the past 5 years, we range from age 20 to 65 and all refer to ourselves as "Habos." [...]
28765 188 34_[QUAR]Re: Michael Moore and Tikkun5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:57:43 -0800537_iso-8859-1 Pearl
Thank you for your kind words. They are a refreshing break from the monotribes and diatribes that float out of our 'Net.
A couple of things come to mind: "For evil to take place, all it takes is for [people] of good will to remain silent".
The other one comes from an experience in college. One of my fellow students confided to me that: "The only reason we don't say what you say in class is because we don't want to get what you get". I let him know what an honor it was to hear that. I just [...]
28954 66 7_Re-send5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 07:15:29 -0800522_iso-8859-1 Nehemiah
Please re-send your message to me. It got lost in a computer foul-up. By the way, the answer to your question, if you remember the question, is 1) Yes and 2) Thank you.
Yours,
Steve
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29021 18 24_a new Israeli radio site11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 15:26:46 -0600397_us-ascii http://www.israradio.com/
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29040 134 28_Re: a new Israeli radio site13_Dan Bernstein17_dsb1@NYCAP.RR.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:39:29 -0500319_us-ascii Shalom HaBonet,
I am involved with a group attempting to start a pluralistic, progressive Jewish day school in the Albany area. We think we have stumbled across something that might help us to make a case to our community. I am hoping someone might be aware of some way to verify this information. [...]
29175 131 29_Jewish demographics in the US13_Dan Bernstein17_dsb1@NYCAP.RR.COM31_Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:32:08 -0500319_us-ascii Shalom HaBonet,
I am involved with a group attempting to start a pluralistic, progressive Jewish day school in the Albany area. We think we have stumbled across something that might help us to make a case to our community. I am hoping someone might be aware of some way to verify this information. [...]
29307 70 61_An International Conference on Education, Community and Norms11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:10:45 -0600701_ISO-8859-1 An International Conference on Education, Community, and Norms Monday-Thursday December 27–30, 2004 The Van Leer Jerusalem Institute broadcast live on the internet in hebrew & english www.vanleer.org.il
The Framework for Jewish Thought and Identity of The Van Leer Jerusalem Institute is delighted to present an international conference on “Education, Community, and Norms” to be held 15-18 Tevet 5764/ Dec 27-30, 2004. The conference will bring together Jewish intellectuals, thinkers, and educators from Israel and the Diaspora, for a discussion aimed at uniting the Jewish world on an issue that preoccupies everyone across the religious spectrum: What are the challenges of [...]
29378 151 9_Amos Elon3_leo18_leodie@ISDN.NET.IL31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:29:23 +0300562_us-ascii On Dec. 24 Roz Barland transmitted a long article from Haaretz about Amos Elon entitled "Under The Tuican Sun". Below are some comments: I own all the books by Elon mentioned in the article and think very highly if them. So he has not become "nearly anonymous here" as far as I'm concerned and I'm sure that there many pople like me. What I find odd, though, is the following: there is no mention by him or the interviewer of the massive influx of Russians into Israel! This has introduced a million people who are mostly non-orthodox! In the town [...]
29530 21 47_Extremely interesting conference live broadcast11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:34:42 -0600477_us-ascii http://www.vanleer.org.il/conf/live/Main2.htm This is from the Van Leer Institute. I think you wil find it very interesting. You can listen in Hebrew or English. Rozzie
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29552 78 4_Help3_leo18_leodie@ISDN.NET.IL31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:43:38 +0300550_us-ascii I believe there was mention of a new book on Hebrew grammar on Habonet. I have lost the reference - can someone supply it?
Prof. L. Diesendruck 7 Petach Tikva Rd. Netanya, Israel 42461 Tel: 09-860 1878 SKYPE e-mail: leodie@isdn.net.il
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29631 54 21_Article by TOM MERTES13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 19:36:53 +0200508_windows-1255
The following article is from New Left Review 30, November-December 2004 http://www.newleftreview.net/NLR26402.shtml
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29686 499 37_Fw: Arlo Guthrie's Bar Mitzva Teacher13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Tue, 28 Dec 2004 23:30:37 +0200470_windows-1255 Decsomebody sent me this. thought habonet people would like it. hope this isn't a double. - Jerusalem Post
WOODY GUTHRIE'S JEWISH LEGACY
By TOM TUGEND
Legendary folk singer and composer Woody Guthrie left behind a little-known legacy of Hanukka, Holocaust and Jewish children's songs, and the inspiration was Yiddish poet Aliza Greenblatt, his mother-in-law. [...]
30186 58 9_Amos Elon15_Nechemia Meyers23_meyers@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:18:47 +0200444_windows-1255 Shalom, After reading the Ha'aretz interview with Amos Elon and his recent book, The Pity of it All--A Portrait of Jews in Germany 1743-1933--it is clear to me that Elon today believes that German Jews were on the right track, and had Hitler not come along most of them would have happily and successfully assimilated. He still thinks that assimilation rather than Zionism is the answer to the Jewish problem. Nechemia Meyers [...]
30245 75 19_Murray Zuckoff, z"l16_Elihu D. Davison25_elihu.davison@VERIZON.NET31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 06:08:29 -0500655_us-ascii With regret I report the death, this past Sunday, of Murray Zuckoff. Murray was editor-in-chief of the Jewish Telegraphic Agency from 1969-87. Subsequently he went on to serve as editor of Midstream, the journal of the World Zionist Organization. Many of us remember Murray, however, from his involvements in left-Zionist politics. He was a member of API, the fore-runner of Meretz USA, and a founder of the Jewish Liberation Project. In that latter capacity, he helped edit--and prodigiously wrote for--the famous Jewish Liberation Journal. The funeral will take place on Thursday, 12/30, at the Plaza Memorial Chapel, 630 Amsterdam Avenue [...]
30321 231 37_Re: Arlo Guthrie's Bar Mitzva Teacher12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:42:55 -0500447_us-ascii
Thanks Pearl!
________________________________
From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Pearl Skolnik Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:31 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: Arlo Guthrie's Bar Mitzva Teacher
somebody sent me this. thought habonet people would like it. hope this isn't a double. - Jerusalem Post WOODY GUTHRIE'S JEWISH LEGACY ... [...]
30553 68 15_Arab relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:12:45 -0800285_iso-8859-1 If it is true that not one Arab country has sent relief aid to the stricken areas (many of them Moslem), does anyone out there have ideas why that would happen? Has there been serious research or writings as to the history of this phenomenon? What makes it make sense? [...]
30622 54 19_Re: Arab relief aid0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:17:26 EST475_US-ASCII I read on Arutz 7, just a few minutes ago that Sri Lanka has accepted Israeli aid.
Ellen
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30677 268 19_Re: Arab relief aid0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:25:56 EST545_US-ASCII I have never forwarded an email before but in answering Steve's questions I thought this one had some relevance. I am not forwarding it for the request of donations only to provide a contrast. But if anyone is so inclined, the information is there.
BTW, to anyone who knows Aimee, she and her boys are well. She didn't know that anything had happened until Yediot called her to ask her to fly to the area of destruction to write an article. She was visiting a friend who has a TV and they turned it on to find the news. She [...]
30946 138 19_Re: Arab relief aid12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:33:02 -0500463_us-ascii Hi Steve,
Do you have actual knowledge of these assertions or are you just asking rhetorical questions to slam Arab countries?
Nothing in you message makes sense to me unless you are asking questions along the lines of "Is it true you and your friends make matzo the old fashioned way? Does anyone have any idea how you could be so monsterous?" for purposes of incitement. Of course it is possible that once again I misunderstand you. [...]
31085 164 25_Re: Article by TOM MERTES5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:35:15 -0800580_windows-1255 Jonathon
Thank you for what is an articulate piece (though somewhat ponderous in size).
I have no real proof about this, but I think it has become clearer and clearer that the reason the Democrats lost was not about policy at all. My party (Democrat) failed to field a candidate this time. All we got from Kerry was constant reiterations of "I have a plan!" and "They did it wrong; I can do it better". Add to that putting Theresa Heinz in our faces and then pulling that "Cheney's daughter" end run (for which Kerry never apologised), it was just [...]
31250 76 19_Re: Arab relief aid16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:56:24 -0500560_us-ascii I heard this very question on CSPAN last night from a "Christian" woman in Oklahoma who wanted to know why only Christians help other people in need. She (wrongly) stated that she didn't expect the Buddhists and Hindus to help anyone because they are all poor (which may come as a surprise to the people of SIngapore, Korea and Japan) but what about the Moslems who are ALL rich (which may come as a surprise to the residents of the camps in Gaza, in Somalia, Darfur, etc.) The guest responding to the questions was a diplomat from Sri Lanka and [...]
31327 101 25_Re: Article by TOM MERTES0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:00:24 +0000344_- Once again your message shows all the effects of one who listens to too much AM talk shows. I think you mentioned every point on a Rush Limbaugh list. (I should add parenthetically that the Chaney's daughter comment required no appology because there was no offense in the comment.)
-------------- Original message -------------- [...]
31429 22 41_Re: Fw: Arlo Guthrie's Bar Mitzva Teacher0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:29:41 EST379_US-ASCII This was beautiful- we has an "event" out here in LA LA land with Jackie Mason- but the opening was a video "celebrating" my boss's 40 years in business- and it was on the first night of Chanukah- we got the cd of Guthrie's Chanukah songs- and one of the videos played out with that in the background---I forwarede your email to my boss- and he appreciated it..sue [...]
31452 172 19_Re: Arab relief aid16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:49:36 -0500528_us-ascii Steve- Two of many examples of Moslem aid to the victims of the tsunami. The first is from UAE Official website. The second is from The Hindu, an online news service from India. There are more but I think two proves the point. Judy PS So far, the US has pledged about 7.5 cents per US resident in help whereas Iran has pledged 1.8 cents per person, or about 25% as much per person. Since US per capita income is around $38000 and the Iranian per capita income is about $1680, or about 4.4% of ours, it seems to me [...]
31625 300 25_Re: Article by TOM MERTES5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:51:42 -0800549_iso-8859-1 Richard
Sorry. Came up with this stuff independent from Rushy. About the need for an apology or not, that is subjective. By the values of the parents that raised me, and the people I surround myself with, the remark was offensive. Obviously, not everyone would see it that way. I would suggest to you to confer with Judy in private and ask her opinion. Then get back to me (you may do that in private also). Edwards had the poise, tact and decency to stay this side of the line on the very same subject, a week or two before. [...]
31926 123 19_Re: Arab relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:57:15 -0800409_iso-8859-1 Ellen
That is correct. They accepted the money and material aid. No relief workers from Israel., as far as the news piece was written. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Emabear@AOL.COM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Arab relief aid
I read on Arutz 7, just a few minutes ago that Sri Lanka has accepted Israeli aid. [...]
32050 148 19_Re: Arab relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:00:02 -0800633_iso-8859-1 Judy
I have been wrong before. When you get the names, would you please forward?
Thanks
Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith R. Gelman To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:56 AM Subject: Re: Arab relief aid
I heard this very question on CSPAN last night from a "Christian" woman in Oklahoma who wanted to know why only Christians help other people in need. She (wrongly) stated that she didn't expect the Buddhists and Hindus to help anyone because they are all poor (which may come as a surprise to the people of SIngapore, Korea and Japan) but [...]
32199 283 19_Re: Arab relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:27:56 -0800562_iso-8859-1 Noam
In answer to your questions (by the way, no surprises there), we, the Jews, find it much more convenient to go down to the market and buy the pre-made stuff. It has been decades since we used the recipe you are alluding to. Now, lest you "catch me" at disingeuousness, I will admit that we still use blood in some of our recipes. On the Hanukahs that we choose to grate the potatoes into the Latke mix, the traditional "Blood-From-the Knuckles" gets mixed in. That is why you can always taste the difference. I will not go into which [...]
32483 2271 42_Israelis in Sir Lanka for humanitarian aid16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:52:34 -0500
34755 219 26_[Fwd: Re: Arab relief aid]16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 13:55:36 -0500404_us-ascii This didn't come through to me the first time so I am resending it. Sorry if it is a duplicate to some of you. Judy
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Arab relief aid Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:49:36 -0500 From: Judith R. Gelman To: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh References: <02b901c4edc1$3b708f40$6400a8c0@userc3c7dcfe28> [...]
34975 321 19_Re: Arab relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:04:33 -0800564_iso-8859-1 Judy
Please do not twist my words when making your point. Iran is not an Arab country. Besides that, I don't know enough of Iranian culture to make any judgments other than when it operates in ways that are universally nefarious.
I am glad you were able to play with the numbers to 'prove' some point. I just don't get the point, nor do I have any great compulsion to get it. I think an important point that you are choosing to ignore, for whatever reason, is that the US is CONSTANTLY involved in distributing aid in the billions to [...]
35297 206 19_Re: Arab relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 11:11:00 -0800315_iso-8859-1 PS Noam
Why did you not criticise Ellen for alluding to the fact that there is a vibrant Jewish response to the disaster? Were you busy? Off guard? It was obviusly a thinly-veiled effort at saying how great the Jews are and how pathetic everyone else's efforts are. Please get back on track! [...]
35504 125 26_Re: Arab relief aid/US Aid16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:33:23 -0500509_us-ascii Dear Steve,
Of course you are correct that Iran is not an Arab country, but the UAE is.
You wrote "If it is true that not one Arab country has sent relief aid to the stricken areas (many of them Moslem"
When someone claims that there are no examples of something, one example is counter proof. If you want to argue that the Arab countries aren't generally very generous, you won't get any argument from me. It just so happens that in this case, some of them are giving aid. [...]
35630 74 26_Re: Arab relief aid/US Aid0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:11:54 +0000361_- Judy, as I understand it, the US is not among the leaders in foriegn aid as compared to other first world countries if you only look at what our government gives, but if you include charitable contributions from Americans we do pretty well. Of course this doesn't prove anything.
-------------- Original message -------------- Dear Steve, [...]
35705 83 26_Re: Arab relief aid/US Aid16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 15:41:06 -0500345_ISO-8859-15 rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET wrote:
> Judy, as I understand it, the US is not among the leaders in foriegn > aid as compared to other first world countries if you only look at > what our government gives, but if you include charitable contributions > from Americans we do pretty well. Of course this doesn't prove anything. > [...]
35789 475 19_Re: Arab relief aid12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:10:39 -0500585_us-ascii
Steve,
Please get a grip.
Noam
In answer to your questions (by the way, no surprises there), we, the Jews, find it much more convenient to go down to the market and buy the pre-made stuff. It has been decades since we used the recipe you are alluding to. Now, lest you "catch me" at disingeuousness, I will admit that we still use blood in some of our recipes. On the Hanukahs that we choose to grate the potatoes into the Latke mix, the traditional "Blood-From-the Knuckles" gets mixed in. That is why you can always taste the difference. I [...]
36265 312 19_Re: Arab relief aid12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:11:58 -0500523_us-ascii
Actually almost did send a message asking exactly what contrast she intended to make since it wasn't clear to me, but worried that someone might think I was nitpicking.
I'm always pleased to hear that Jews are doing compassionate work. Whatever would make you think otherwise?
Talk about twisting someones words!
Sorry my attempt to help you see how your asking baseless questions might offend has left you unhinged - I sometimes forget how fragile you can be. Please forgive me. [...]
36578 78 22_speaking of relief aid12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:35:17 -0500532_us-ascii
To perhaps get on a more positive note, today's washington post listed bnai brith international as one of the groups that is doing disaster relief. Clearly Chabad is also doing work in this area. Since all the red cross gets from me these days is my blood (let's hope they are making latkes and not something else) I'd like to give through a Jewish conduit. What other Jewish organizations are contributing? Does anyone know which have the lowest overhead, i.e. how can I get the most relief bang for my buck? [...]
36657 74 19_Re: Arab relief aid0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 18:50:11 EST553_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/29/2004 6:11:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM writes:
Steve,
Please get a grip.
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36732 132 19_Re: Arab relief aid0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:01:00 EST604_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/29/2004 6:11:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM writes:
Steve,
Please get a grip.
You are right Noam. Steve does need to get a grip. I think he did understand what you were saying about the Matza but chose to wax poetic anyway. The fact that Steve asked you if you were named after Noam Chomsky was his way of insulting you, I think. Steve is really showing some strange signs of the modern angst. He is not only consistently pro-Bush, but he has now taken a more interesting an turn. He is pro Christmas. He seems [...]
36865 68 26_Re: speaking of relief aid0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 19:15:43 EST441_US-ASCII From my email. This clearly refutes Steve's assertion that " For the record, Sri Lanka agreed to accept money and other material aid, just not Israelis."
A business in Israel that I get email from wanted to go to the area and help, but were told by the Foreign Ministry that only "professional volunteers" were being used. So the company did its own thing, hired a plane and is filling it with (hopefully) useful items. [...]
36934 49 26_Re: speaking of relief aid20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@YAHOO.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:34:49 -0800402_us-ascii Noam--
One way to check on what percentage of a charity's funds go to their programs is through your local Better Business bureau website. There should be a link to a guide to philanthopies. Some of the numbers would make your hair stand on end!
Naomi
--------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more. [...]
36984 141 26_Re: speaking of relief aid12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 20:55:26 -0500496_us-ascii Thanks Naomi, but what little hair I have left often stand on end by itself ;-) I was hoping someone on habonet more connected with the business of relief and tzedukah might have done the homework already.
Noam
________________________________
From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Naomi Goldberg Honor Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 8:35 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of relief aid [...]
37126 196 37_Aid to Southeast Asia--Jewish Options16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:17:51 -0500508_ISO-8859-15 Dear Noam et al,
The Jewish Federation of Greater Washington has a fund that you can give to online. They are promising to give 100%, taking no overhead for themselves. See below. Since they aren't going to set up a relief team themselves, I assume that they are doing this with other Federations and that they money will go through some other agency and somewhere along the line someone has to pay the overhead bills of some agency so the 100% figure shouldn't impress you too much! [...]
37323 1404 64_JDC Reports Massive Response To South Asia Tsunami Relief Appeal16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:22:07 -0500
38728 32 33_Editor for Zionist Journal Wanted0_14_KBob24@AOL.COM31_Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:32:54 -0500658_iso-8859-1 Prestigious Zionist journal, the Jewish Frontier, now beginning its eighth decade, seeks an editor, who should have: *Sufficient knowledge and experience to be responsible for solicitation of articles, editorial work, layout, and design. Creativity is highly desirable! *Broad familiarity with contemporary issues and philosophical and ideological affinity or sympathy with the Labor Zionist perspective *Hands-on capability and experience to utilize Adobe and other online publishing programs Honorarium for four quarterly issues depends on background and skills. Please send resumes and/or inquiries via email to executive@laborzionist.org [...]
38761 37 33_A little help from Israeli chevre0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 04:13:50 +0000332_- I believe I did this a few years ago but need the same help again: can someone living in Israel look up my brother's phone number and send it to me. He is Paul Smith at Kibbutz Gesher Haziv. Thank you. (I need it because my mom is there and she would want to know that one of her favorites, Jerry Orbach, died this evening.) [...]
38799 64 37_Re: A little help from Israeli chevre13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 07:19:27 +0200500_windows-1255 Hi Richard.
Paul's number is 4 995 8581.
Send my regards. I used to see him in miluim now and then.
Jon
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38864 31 41_Telephone # of Paul Smith at Gesher HaZiv14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@HOTMAIL.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:40:20 +0000353_- Shalom Richard,
The phone number of Paul (and Katy) at Gesher Haziv is 04-9958581 .
[You need to add 011-972, the international operator and country codes, before the phone number. Also, you must drop the '0' in the '04' because you will be calling from outside of Israel.]
The URL for looking up phone numbers in Israel is: [...]
38896 519 26_[BULK] from The New Yorker13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:10:16 +0200631_windows-1255 FINAL CUT by IAN BURUMA After a filmmaker’s murder, the Dutch creed of tolerance has come under siege. Issue of 2005-01-03 Posted 2004-12-27 "It’s the South Bronx,” my friend Max Pam said as he drove me to his old neighborhood, the Overtoomse Veld, in west Amsterdam. Whatever it was, it wasn’t the South Bronx. Dreary rather than menacing, more shabby than poor, the neighborhood of gray concrete nineteen-fifties tenements had changed drastically in one respect since Max lived there as a child. Once a suburb for young Dutch families, the Overtoomse Veld is now inhabited almost entirely by immigrants, mainly [...]
39416 70 19_Top Scientists Warn13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:42:23 +0200712_windows-1255 News Briefs Top Scientists Warn: Sea Gods Angry
Washington, DC - Pointing to the devastating weekend Indian Ocean tsunami that left over 24,000 dead, an international blue ribbon committee of climatologists and ecoscientists today issued a stark warning that man-made pollutants have increasingly "make water spirits angry."
The blunt conclusion prefaced a 2300 page meta-analysis of hundreds of scientific studies and computer models detailing links between human industrial activity and wrathful eco-deities. Entitled "Fire Bad: Fire Very Bad," the report warns that the planet faces additional catastrophies unless drastic regulatory action is taken to appease Earthen-furies. [...]
39487 17 47_[BULK] Site for missing and looking for missing11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@MJDS.ORG31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 05:43:02 -0600410_us-ascii http://www.mochilero.net/new/list2.asp
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39505 71 45_Re: Telephone # of Paul Smith at Gesher HaZiv0_23_rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:03:30 +0000274_- Thank you Marty, Jon and Brian for the help. Perhaps this proves that Jews can agree on something, all three of you provided the same phone number. BTW, the address you provided is very useful for those who can read and write in Hebrew, I am not one of those people. [...]
39577 151 45_Re: Telephone # of Paul Smith at Gesher HaZiv0_26_Sharon_Gates@LONGBEACH.GOV31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 07:49:01 -0800501_us-ascii If somebody were looking for my phone number, I don't know that I'd want it posted to an e-mail list. I'd appreciate it if people who knew it e-mailed it directly to the person who was looking. But maybe that's just me. I appreciate the helpful spirit, though.
Sharon Gates
rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET Sent by: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh 12/30/2004 04:03 AM Please respond to Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [...]
39729 886 58_tsunami relief: transparency/disclosure for your donations13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:46:23 +0200381_iso-8859-1 below is part of a letter sent by my nephew who is coordinating donations in our extended family. He lists the places that have the highest number of stars for disclosure and minimum administration costs, so you know your donation is actually getting to where you want it. read through to end to see how the stars are given out to which charity organization. pearl [...]
40616 247 42_interesting Letter from Chabad of Thailand13_Pearl Skolnik25_pskolnik@NETVISION.NET.IL31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:54:16 +0200437_windows-1255 a description below tells of what chabad is going through since the tzanami hit. below are contact details for donations. Chabad has done yeoman work in this godawful crisis. There are thousands of Israelis in the countries hit, and many lost everything -- their money, passports, clothing, everything. They are being transported back to Israel by El Al airlift and we are witness to very moving family reunions. pearl [...]
40864 49 19_Re: Arab relief aid0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:52:29 EST465_US-ASCII Being as simpleminded as I am, I intended no contrast. Wanted to let you all know, that's it.
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40914 70 25_Re: Article by TOM MERTES0_17_Smfgrappa@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:55:04 EST638_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/29/2004 12:52:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM writes:
It's all in the presentation. Review the tapes
What about your presentation Steve. You listen to Rush and O'Reilly and then attack others. How did you wander so far from you values.
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40985 56 62_Re: tsunami relief: transparency/disclosure for your donations16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:55:35 -0500425_us-ascii Thank you Pearl! Judy
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41042 57 26_Re: speaking of relief aid0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 15:55:32 EST336_US-ASCII My son knows the shaliach in Bangkok very well. I've been speaking to him. The monies collected are going for aid to the Israeli, and other Jews I guess, who come to the Chabad Houses looking for help, food, clothing, finding friends, traveling buddies, and calling home. There are no administrative expenses being taken. [...]
41100 39 26_Re: speaking of relief aid0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:08:57 EST424_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/30/2004 3:57:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, Emabear@AOL.COM writes: My son knows the shaliach in Bangkok very well. I've been speaking to him. The monies collected are going for aid to the Israeli, and other Jews I guess, who come to the Chabad Houses looking for help, food, clothing, finding friends, traveling buddies, and calling home. There are no administrative expenses being taken. [...]
41140 115 19_Re: Arab relief aid12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:13:26 -0500292_us-ascii
I guess I'm as slow as Steve says I am since I was confused when you said "I have never forwarded an email before but in answering Steve's questions I thought this one had some relevance. I am not forwarding it for the request of donations only to provide a contrast. " [...]
41256 98 26_Re: speaking of relief aid12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:15:30 -0500433_us-ascii
Not to any and all who need it?!? I hope I misunderstand. Jews only doesn't sound like work I want to support administrative expenses or no.
Noam
________________________________
From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Emabear@AOL.COM Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 3:56 PM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Re: speaking of relief aid [...]
41355 90 18_Floridian filosofy11_Phil Safier17_psafier@ELIXA.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 16:18:20 -0700347_us-ascii I don't know who wrote this to a Tampa newspaper (Steve Patsy "Stand By Your Man" Klein perhaps?) but a lotta folks here in the trailer park teared up when I read it to them. Remember, if English was good enough for Jeezus, it should be good enough for us. Onward Christian soldiers! Let's keep it real positive in 2005, okey dokey? [...]
41446 35 47_Re: Floridian filosofy--and immigrant questions0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:56:39 EST592_US-ASCII While this country was founded by "immigrants"--and the philosophy printed on the Statue of Liberty still seethes deep in my own soul, I have, recently, become "schizophrenic" in my view of all of this. Example: My work is a small company and does not offer health insurance to the workers. Becuase of my age, etc. for me to "buy" health insurance, it would cost between $700-850/month. I am priced out of it. And even though California has a government-run program, called the "High Risk Pool" for people who are "turned down" by insurance companies, the cost is not much less [...]
41482 99 26_Re: speaking of relief aid0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 21:43:55 EST542_US-ASCII It's a times like this that I wish I could write as well as some of you do. I really have to shake my head. The Chabad houses are an address that Israelis and Jews traveling in South East Asia know. They know to go there for Shabbat meals, for food anytime when they are down on luck (money) and to meet with other trekking Israeli chevre. They receive help coming down from a bad drug trip and a ticket home when they are in trouble with the local police. (Maybe someone wants to complain about them helping fugitives skipping [...]
41582 1205 32_The Jewish Community of Thailand16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Thu, 30 Dec 2004 22:48:42 -0500
42788 31 9_Jibberish16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@HOTMAIL.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 05:13:02 -0500437_- Hi All!
Does anyone know how I can get these postings without all of the gobbledygook that seems to take up most of the postings here. Do I need to change some setting on my computer?
Thanks, Marc Hershkowitz
By the way, I am including a short sample of the gibberish I am talking about below. It also surprises me how many people just hit :reply without deleting the content of what they are replyling to... [...]
42820 554 19_Re: Arab relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:38:54 -0800419_iso-8859-1 Noam
My matso response was tongue-in-cheek. You responded as if I were serious. I now see the chasm in our understandings (actually mis-understandings). I will try in the future to remember this problem. I apologise for any discomfort I may have inadvertently caused you (while admitting some of it was actually advertent). I will try to tread lighter and more concretely in the future with you. [...]
43375 249 26_Re: Arab relief aid/US Aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:52:34 -0800365_iso-8859-1 Judy
I heard on either CNN or Fox (we listen to both, equally), that 40% of foreign relief aid last year was from us (US). Is this low? High? Made up?
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: rdsmith1957@COMCAST.NET To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:11 PM Subject: Re: Arab relief aid/US Aid [...]
43625 225 25_Fw: Important information5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:57:03 -0800515_iso-8859-1
What are your feelings on the message of this article?
Steve
Subject: Important information
Several weeks ago, Germany announced its decision to stop all arms sales to Israel. Since then, other countries have followed suit. In response, Israel has canceled its annual multimillion dollar contract for its nationwide DAN buses which were manufactured in Germany, and is looking at other bus suppliers in the US, and Japan. [...]
43851 117 26_Re: Arab relief aid/US Aid16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:17:44 -0500341_us-ascii I have no idea because I don't know how it is calculated or what it includes. As a (former) government economist I learned that you almost never have to totally make up a figure from thin air--you just have to work at it until by including and excluding and refiguring you get a number that appears favorable to your argument. [...]
43969 450 25_Re: Important information11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@EARTHLINK.NET31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:17:27 -0800881_US-ASCII Before I comment, can you, please, provide the source of this article?
-----Original Message----- From: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh [mailto:HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG] On Behalf Of Steve Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 8:57 AM To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Subject: Fw: Important information
What are your feelings on the message of this article?
Steve
Subject: Important information
Several weeks ago, Germany announced its decision to stop all arms sales to Israel. Since then, other countries have followed suit. In response, Israel has canceled its annual multimillion dollar contract for its nationwide DAN buses which were manufactured in Germany, and is looking at other bus suppliers [...]
44420 71 26_Re: speaking of relief aid5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:29:04 -0800325_iso-8859-1 Debalev
If you knew ANYTHING of Chabad, you wouldn't have responded this way. Ellen may have been personally offended, but I am just saddened by the readiness of some people to take an innocent mis-statement and run with it. What is it for? What pleasure do you guys get out of it? Just to get a rise? [...]
44492 442 25_Re: Important information5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:44:02 -0800448_iso-8859-1 Dear Batel
Sorry, I can't. Part of the problem is that it is old news, that Germany and other countries have opted to stop supplying Israel. The comments I was seeking were pertaining to the effectivity (and personal commitment) to a reverse boycott.
Steve
----- Original Message ----- From: Batel Libes To: HABONET@SHAMASH.ORG Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Important information [...]
44935 588 71_Fw: Hadassah Doctors are on their way to help Indian Ocean victims = FR5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:53:19 -0800717_windows-1255
To: Noam, David, Phil, Sam and Richard
Subject: Fw: Hadassah Doctors are on their way to help Indian Ocean victims = FR
Please pass this on. The world should know what the tiny State of Israel is doing. Thanks. Marcia-
Yes. Israel is continuing its history of helping the world with rescue missions. And according to HonestReporting.com the major press agencies are continuing their histories of ignoring the good Israel does in the world, focusing instead on the Palestinian conflict. You can read the communique, and follow the underlined links, on line at http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/45884734/critiques/Israeli_Aid3_Unreported.asp [...]
45524 279 29_Re: Fw: Important information16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@EROLS.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:06:40 -0500444_us-ascii From Boycott Watch (and dated over a year ago)- Judy
September 21, 2003
If You Want Credibility In Your Boycott Call, Sign Your Name
Summary: A non-verifiable email is circulating that calls for a boycott based on a news article. When the source information is not verifiable and there is no contact information for the boycotters, Boycott Watch must conclude that the boycott call is false and/or unfounded. [...]
45804 406 34_Fwd: FW: Ignoring Israeli Kindness0_18_LiberHawke@AOL.COM29_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:44:36 EST540_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/31/04 10:43:17 AM, sliberman@blazergrp.com writes:
<< Ignoring Israeli Kindness
By HonestReporting.com
December 29, 2004
When disaster strikes anywhere in the world, Israelis can be counted on to
help. So it's no surprise that within hours of the devastating tsunami in
the Indian Ocean, the following humanitarian missions all departed from the
tiny Jewish state: [...]
46211 25 29_Re: Fw: Important information12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@PIPELINE.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 13:52:14 -0500
46237 88 13_The Last Word0_15_Emabear@AOL.COM29_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:00:04 EST471_UTF-8 Another Chabad representative, Benny Gimzo, told Arutz-7 yesterday about his part in the rescue campaign: "All along a 20-kilometer stretch of beach there is nothing but destruction – private homes, hotels, stores, cars... I don't even want to say how many bodies we pulled out of the water... I joined up with a group of people giving help to whoever needed it, whether they be foreigners or local Thais, giving them food, medicines and whatever possible." [...]
46326 71 17_Re: The Last Word0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:36:30 EST585_US-ASCII Now, that IS what I hoped Chabad would do. Thanks for sharing that, Ellen.
And Judy, thanks for that web site. VERY interesting; who would've thunk it?
Shabbat shalom, everybody, and a safe and fruitful new (secular) year to us all.
Debbie
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46398 185 103_Fw: Urgent action: Christian Science Monitor is running THAT SAME VOTE re DIVESTMENT from Israel again:5_Steve26_kleinsdesigns@SOCAL.RR.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 12:12:44 -0800391_iso-8859-1 Urgent action: Christian Science Monitor is running THAT SAME VOTE re DIVESTMENT from Israel again: Please vote and send this along. In addition, please let the CSM what you feel about this issue being flogged in front of us continually.
Steve
Subject: Urgent action: Christian Science Monitor is running THAT SAME VOTE re DIVESTMENT from Israel again: [...]
46584 130 71_Re: Hadassah Doctors are on their way to help Indian Ocean victims = FR12_Stopak, Noam19_Noam_Stopak@SRA.COM31_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:25:27 -0500468_us-ascii Hi Steve,
Clearly you missed it when I said it before, so I'll say it again, "I'm always pleased to hear that Jews are doing compassionate work. Whatever would make you think otherwise?"
Noam
p.s. to Marc Hershkowitz - it seems your email program doesn't understand HTML. You might want to consider using a more up to date software package. Many good programs are available for free. Drop me a line and I can give you some pointers. [...]
46715 56 38_now for soemthing completely different0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:20:34 EST498_US-ASCII
this may be if interest to some:
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/06/features-hoinski.php
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46772 86 42_Re: now for soemthing completely different0_15_DebALev@AOL.COM29_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 17:21:02 EST419_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/31/2004 4:31:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, Mmxmm@AOL.COM writes:
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/06/features-hoinski.php
Thanks! My sweetie was on the bus for a while...but doesn't remember much. Gee, I wonder why. Hmmmmmmm. He spent time with Ginsburg, Kesey, et al.
Me, well, all I had (still have) Wolfe's book. I still love that cover. [...]
46859 60 42_Re: now for soemthing completely different13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@SASA.ORG.IL30_Sat, 1 Jan 2005 00:28:40 +0200457_iso-8859-1 Boy, that shit was fun while it lasted but thanks God it's over. Thanks for the blast from the past Mark.
Happy New Year to all,
Jon
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46920 118 42_Re: now for soemthing completely different0_13_Mmxmm@AOL.COM29_Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:06:52 EST482_US-ASCII
Hey Jon,
Some places its still alive and well to varying degrees...in fact am fortunate to still hang out with some of those folks...after all I do manage Wavy Gravy...and if you think thank god its over I invite you to peruse his webpage and see some of the good shit that is still being created. Check out Camp Winnarainbow & the SEVA Foundation to name a few things founded by hippies and still contributing to the greater good in some amazing ways. [...]