Reply-To: habonet@shamash.org Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:31:44 +0200
> > >One of my daughters is coming to Israel for a ten days visit. I want to >rent a cell phone for her, but no one here seems to be able to tell me >how to do it. I remember seeing this mentioned some time ago on HABONET. >Can some one give me this information? > > > > > > > [...]
16225 19 24_Re: Cell phone in Israel0_13_VFINK@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:12:12 EST554_US-ASCII You can rent a phone at the airport at any of the car rental places.
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
MyJewishLearning.com, The Personal Gateway to Jewish Exploration Officially launches: http://MyJewishLearning.com/index.htm?source=shamash ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
16245 172 24_Re: Cell phone in Israel11_Don Goelman25_don.goelman@villanova.edu31_Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:17:44 -0500449_us-ascii When I visited last June, Haver Steve's suggestion bizmano worked out fine: see www.talknsave.net.
Biqur naim,
Don
Leo Diesendruck wrote:
> One of my daughters is coming to Israel for a ten days visit. I want to rent a cell > phone for her, but no one here seems to be able to tell me how to do it. I remember > seeing this mentioned some time ago on HABONET. Can some one give me this information? > > [Image] >
16418 32 58_Habonim History- desperate for help form anyone in NY area0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:03:25 EST574_US-ASCII Dear Chevre- In March of 2003, AVI (American Veterans for Israel) will be holding a fundraiser for their archives in cooperation with the Center for Jewish History at the Museum on 16th street. The fundraiser will be a screening of "Exodus" with Paul Newman. Many of the members of AVI were former "bogrei tnuah"- and as a matter of fact, Bill Bernstein, who was a member of San Francisco Habonim, was killed on the actual Exodus ship during the battle with the British ( in international waters!). Since most of the members of AVI are in their 70's and 80's, [...]
16451 20 35_NAA conference in Israel in January0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:03:57 EST391_US-ASCII Is anyone going to the NAA conference in Israel in January? ( At the Dead Sea)- Please email me if you are- Thanks - sue
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
16472 134 19_"Eyeless in Israel"12_marcie brown13_marcie@ic.net31_Tue, 17 Dec 2002 07:35:49 -0500496_iso-8859-1 Have people seen this article?
Ha'aretz [Israeli Daily Newspaper] - Dec 15, 2002
Eyeless in Israel
By Gideon Levy, levy@haaretz.co.il
Is it too much to ask Israelis to take a look, even a glimpse, at what's going on in their backyard? Are we even capable of dropping our relentless preoccupation with primaries and the battle between Tnuva and Strauss over cottage cheese, to pay attention to what is happening in the territories under our occupation? [...]
16607 75 27_Re: cheap cell phone rental0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 05:38:39 EST521_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/18/02 12:17:26 AM, habonet@shamash.org writes:
> From: "Leo Diesendruck" > To: > Subject: Cell phone in Israel > Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 15:31:44 +0200 > > > One of my daughters is coming to Israel for a ten days visit. I want to > rent a cell phone for her, but no one here seems to be able to tell me > how to do it. I remember seeing this mentioned some time ago on HABONET. > Can someone give me this information? > [...]
16683 58 4_shas4_sima19_simagr@telhai.ac.il31_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:37:54 +0200140_utf-8 For those who read hebrew...... Shas' website - Elohim Yishmor!
http://shas.web-site.co.il/shas/swf/im.swf
-Sima
16742 70 28_'Process' of Elimination/WSJ11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 06:03:47 -0600536_us-ascii THE REAL WORLD
'Process' of Elimination Why does America ask Israel to let its people get blown up?
BY CLAUDIA ROSETT Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:01 a.m. EST
HERZLIYA, Israel--Much talk these days centers on the process we've come to call nation-building and the recognition that for peace, one needs democracy. So far, so good. The pity is that there is not more wisdom brought to bear on defending the democracies that already exist, especially that most beleaguered of all free states: Israel. [...]
16813 44 53_We will use Jewish Skulls to build a bridge to heaven11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:17:43 -0600490_us-ascii Hamas: We will use Jewish skulls to build a bridge to Heaven IDF Spokesperson 16 December 2002
The Hamas website (http://www.palestine-info.info) published a banner Dec. 16, 2002, encouraging the murder of Jews as part of Jihad (Holy War). The banner depicts an eagle pecking at Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's severed head with the slogan: "We will use the skulls of Zion's sons (Jews) to build a bridge to Heaven." http://www.idf.il/newsite/images/1216-2p2.jpg [...]
16858 22 21_Re: Eyeless in Israel0_15_Amriv18@aol.com31_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:25:22 -0500629_iso-8859-1 Marcie You ask if people have read Gideon Levi's article in Ha'aretz. I did because after only a week in the States I'm suffering ga'aguei moledet - longings for the homeland. But when I'm home I never read him becasue despite his description as "a regular journalist for Ha'aretz, Israel's most respected newspaper," I can't stand his unremitting style. Call it lachrymose laziness. Read four sentences and you get fourteen withering adjectives, at least three broadsides and two invectives. In all the years he's written not one description of a kindly act, merciful or even menshlich manifestation on the part [...]
16881 34 21_Re: Eyeless in Israel0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:56:50 EST306_US-ASCII My question is where was (is) his voice after the murderous "suicide bombings"- what about the innocent Israeli men, women and children who are brutally murdered and the families and friends who are affected. Or is this just another "self-hating Jew" attempt at an apology for accidents of war?sue
16916 53 23_Re: "Eyeless in Israel"0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:10:35 EST290_US-ASCII Marcie,
I think it is good for an Israeli to report on the horror of occupation. There are two sides to this war, and while I am on one side, I don't wish to be blind to the suffering on the other, or in the dark about the actions of the troops that prosecute the war. [...]
16970 41 8_Re: shas13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 18:46:13 +020020_utf-8 I'm convinced.
17012 51 21_Re: Eyeless in Israel0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:45:36 EST438_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/18/02 9:58:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, LiberHawke@aol.com writes:
> Or is this just another "self-hating Jew" attempt at an apology for > accidents of war?
Not everything he brought up can be described as an "accident" of war. As an Israeli citizen, maybe he feels that actions such as the ones he described, done in his name, by his government, are fair game for his criticism. [...]
17064 240 109_FW: Action/FYI: Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is beingpicketed because of his support of Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:12:38 -0800619_US-ASCII Action/FYI: Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is being picketed because of his support of Israel -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:11 AM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: Action/FYI: Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is beingpicketed because of his support of Israel
**********************************************************ACTION************ ******************************************************** WHAT:
Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is being picketed because of his support of Israel. [...]
17305 49 80_Re: FW: Action/FYI: Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is beingpicke...0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:32:49 EST422_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/18/02 4:11:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com writes:
> Hillel is committed to Israel. Now, because of his efforts to stop a > well-documented series of distortions at NPR, his business is paying the > price. >
Please provide proof of this statement. I listen to NPR daily and would like to know how they have fooled me with their biased reporting.
17355 36 21_Re: Eyeless in Israel0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 16:39:01 EST616_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/18/02 12:47:22 PM, Richardrdsmith@aol.com writes:
<< This attempt to paint all Jews who criticize the actions of the Israeli government as a "self-hating" Jew is very reminiscent of blacks who oppose affirmative action being called Uncle Toms. >>
Firstly, I did NOT "paint all Jews who criticize israel" as self-hating. But I must say that in this "war"- we who are not sitting on the front lines can not know what circumstances led to certain incidents. There will be accidents, and I am sure that everyone on this list is sorry for any innocent person who [...]
17392 52 39_Re: Eyeless in Israel: Further thoughts0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Dec 2002 17:34:10 EST436_US-ASCII Upon deeper reflection, or at least as deep as I am capable of, there is even more reason to support writers like the one mentioned.
One of the most effective argument against the Arab position on events in the Middle East is the complete lack of an Arab peace movement or any criticism of the terrorist strategy against Israel. It makes Israel's position stronger when Israeli's openly criticize their government. [...]
17445 31 17_Eyeless in Israel27_Maxene and Frank Perlmutter24_habesor@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 19 Dec 2002 08:02:57 +0200590_iso-8859-1 I read Gideon Levi from time to time but his continual one-sided "reporting" in my opinion makes for a credibility problem. At about the time of the "Jenin massacre" he wrote a full page piece about a Palestinian who was arrested by the security services. The simple facts of the case were that this person was arrested, NOT interrogated, held in custody for a couple of weeks and then released. The most serious complaint that this person had about his treatment while in custody was that often the schnitzel was served after it had cooled off. Never-the-less Levi did not [...]
17477 38 39_Re: Eyeless in Israel: Further thoughts11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:52:38 -0500616_us-ascii I'm with you on this Richard. I think we are seeing a classic "don't like the message? attack the messenger" reaction.
And the hardliners accuse the doves of denial...
Thanks for the article and welcome to habonet Marcie.
Noam
Richardrdsmith@aol.com wrote:
> Upon deeper reflection, or at least as deep as I am capable of, there is even more reason to support writers like the one mentioned. > > One of the most effective argument against the Arab position on events in the Middle East is the complete lack of an Arab peace movement or any criticism of the terrorist [...]
17516 116 15_Re: Gideon Levi0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Fri, 20 Dec 2002 01:39:55 EST399_ISO-8859-1
In a message dated 12/20/02 12:19:30 AM, habonet@shamash.org writes:
> > I'm with you on this Richard. I think we are seeing a classic > "don't like the message? attack the messenger" reaction. > > And the hardliners accuse the doves of denial... > > Thanks for the article and welcome to habonet Marcie. > > Noam > =========================================== [...]
17633 110 12_from Haaretz0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Fri, 20 Dec 2002 08:21:27 EST518_US-ASCII Haaretz, Friday, December 20, 2002 Tevet 15, 5763Israel Time: 06:37 (GMT+2)
The trap of anger and frustration
By Yair Porat
Finally, in this election campaign, a politician has stood up and said the truth straight to our faces: Yes, we have to get out of Gaza, and yes, we have to go back to the negotiations with the Palestinians about establishing their state, and yes, the budgets have to be diverted away from the settlements to take care of the social problems. [...]
17744 31 15_Re: Gideon Levi0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 20 Dec 2002 10:09:08 EST570_US-ASCII Chaver Steve,
Balance may be achieved in different ways. I do not think Mr. Levi's is very effective. But it may be that looking at the stream of communication as a whole, Mr. Levi feels that there is a need for a look from the other side to create something to an overall balance. Personally, I think it is important for the acceptability of your message to first acknowledge your understanding and sympathy for the pain your readers are experiencing, then offer that that pain should not blind us to the pain of others and the pain we cause. This [...]
17776 88 16_Re: from Haaretz0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 20 Dec 2002 11:07:05 EST348_US-ASCII Everyone is entitled to their view. I cannot of course substitute my armchair stateside notion of occupation for that of someone who has been there and done that. So I take no issue with the humiliation and loss inflicted on all Palestinians for the capture and punishment of a growing few. I do however see the solution differently. [...]
17865 82 15_Re: Gideon Levi11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:09:44 -0500601_us-ascii NEVETS2@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/20/02 12:19:30 AM, habonet@shamash.org writes: > >> I'm with you on this Richard. I think we are seeing a classic >> "don't like the message? attack the messenger" reaction. >> >> And the hardliners accuse the doves of denial... >> >> Thanks for the article and welcome to habonet Marcie. >> >> Noam > >> =========================================== > > Noam, Shalom > > I'm not so sure of your analysis. In these painful painful times, what people "on the left" seem to need from anyone who wants to be listened to is balance. There [...]
17948 33 13_eyeless where0_15_Amriv18@aol.com31_Fri, 20 Dec 2002 18:03:11 -0500607_iso-8859-1 I'm with Frank on this one. Richard wrote that > It makes Israel's position stronger when Israeli's Matti Caspi's song D'varim sh'roiim mi kan lo roiim mi sham (things that you see here are unseen from there,) reminded me of Aldous Huxley's work, Eyeless in Gaza. He named a much later, 1954 work, The Doors of Perception which kinda puts my message into perspective. While Israel can be likened to a powerful Samson blinded by the Phiistines in Gaza, only capable of a mighty mutual destruction of the Gazanites and himself, his Doors of Perception illustrates the geographic relativity of [...]
17982 107 22_an answer? a question?7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 21 Dec 2002 20:40:36 +0200513_windows-1255 Noam,
Theoretically, you could be right. But in actuality you are not. Every time the curfew was raised in Arab areas, the same or the next day we suffered more suicide attacks. Do you have a better answer than the army has today? Do you have any answer? It is clear that it is not the "occupation" causing these attacks, because 95% of the Arabs live under Palestinian rule, to say nothing of the fact that they were offered their State under Barak, and took the opportunity to lose it. [...]
18090 243 109_Re: Action/FYI: Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is beingpicketed because of his support of Israel11_Jack Porter23_jacknusan@earthlink.net31_Sat, 21 Dec 2002 23:05:46 -0800589_US-ASCII on 12/18/02 1:12 PM, Steve Klein at kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 9:11 AM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: Action/FYI: Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is beingpicketed because of his support of Israel
**********************************************************ACTION************ ******************************************************** WHAT:
Please support Hillel Stavis whose business is being picketed because of his support of Israel. [...]
18334 147 54_Re: Balance and the "masochistic omnipotence syndrome"0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 00:47:01 EST629_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/21/02 12:09:40 AM, Noam writes:
> "Do you really think that the members of this list who object when > Israel takes actions which horrify us all don't love Israel?" > Noam, shalom
I'm sorry that what I wrote upset you as much as it seems to have upset you. I think that in response to the vicious and determined terrorist war Israelis are fighting against a dedicated and internationally supported and financed array of Palestinian forces determined to destroy Israel, and in response to the amazing overall restraint that Israel, the IDF and individual soldiers [...]
18482 71 60_If Christmas was a Jewish holiday ... A Talmudic exposition.0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 01:26:49 EST608_US-ASCII If Christmas was a Jewish holiday ... A Talmudic exposition.
http://www.juda.com/xmas-gamara.shtml
================================== Sample (very hard to pick just one. No representation that this is the one that will tickle your funnybone the most. It's all well done and very funny.)
IX. HAVDALA
1. THERE ARE MANY OPINIONS REGARDING WHEN THE XMAS SEASON IS OVER.(40) BAIS HILLEL HOLDS THAT XMAS IS OVER WHEN THE LAST ITEM IN THE AFTER XMAS SALE HAS BEEN SOLD. BAIS SHAMMAI IS STRICT AND HOLDS THAT XMAS IS OVER IMMEDIATELY AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE FOOTBALL GAME. [...]
18554 125 10_WordsWorth16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 09:21:45 -0500596_us-ascii WordsWorth was my favorite Cambridge bookstore in the years I was a graduate student at Harvard. It had (still has, last time I visited in Beantown) offerings that were both wide and deep. In those years when my wife and I were courting, a Saturday night date might include dinner, a movie, coffee and then a trip to the bookstore before going home. WordsWorth was the bookstore, open to midnight or 1:00 AM. Isn't graduate student life grand? Beats working for a living. I saw the item about WordsWorth being picketed last week. Whatever one thinks of NPR's mideast coverage--like [...]
18680 23 6_UPDATE0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 14:03:51 EST469_US-ASCII I was off-line for the past three weeks or so,and am now getting used to the new computer. Sorry I did not have the patience to read through everything, and am now ready to begin again.
Shula
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...]
18704 154 14_Re: WordsWorth11_Jack Porter23_jacknusan@earthlink.net31_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:20:02 -0800601_US-ASCII on 12/22/02 6:21 AM, Elihu D. Davison at EliD@worldnet.att.net wrote:
WordsWorth was my favorite Cambridge bookstore in the years I was a graduate student at Harvard. It had (still has, last time I visited in Beantown) offerings that were both wide and deep. In those years when my wife and I were courting, a Saturday night date might include dinner, a movie, coffee and then a trip to the bookstore before going home. WordsWorth was the bookstore, open to midnight or 1:00 AM. Isn't graduate student life grand? Beats working for a living. I saw the item about WordsWorth being [...]
18859 65 54_Re: Balance and the "masochistic omnipotence syndrome"11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:28:11 -0500478_us-ascii Hi Steve,
First, thanks for not answering my questions.
I think you're distorting what I've said. I certainly never said that Israel is primarily responsible for the matsav. What I am trying to suggest is that Israel and her friends must not avert their yes and shrug when terrible things are done in its name, just as Americans must speak out against and hold accountable those who are responsible for civilian deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq today. [...]
18925 89 26_Re: an answer? a question?11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 17:37:13 -0500559_us-ascii Hi Pearl,
I don't really understand how your posting follows from what I have written. My point is that it doesn't strengthen your position to avert your eyes from the horrors that occur on either side. I certainly don't claim to have an answer, though my answer may be better than that of the army today. I say this not because I believe I'm a military genius, but simply because I don't see the army's answer as effective. I think every time you kill an innocent person that is wrong, whether that is done by a terrorist bombing, or by [...]
19015 82 20_Eggnog and delusions0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:23:49 EST611_US-ASCII Is eggnog kosher? How about Wild Turkey? This eggnog was so thick it required considerable thinning with bourbon. The consequence is a fairly elaborate delusion, which I invite you to share.
Imagine if you will that the year is 5800. The remnants of the Palestinians have been absorbed into Jordan and Egypt with an equal number in Europe and the United States and small numbers is spread through each of the other Arab countries of the Middle East. Israel's eastern border is the Jordan River. The boundaries with Syrian and the Lebanon have been negotiated out along with water easements [...]
19098 23 54_Re: Balance and the "masochistic omnipotence syndrome"0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:26:40 EST583_US-ASCII Noam,
Neither does it necessarily mean he is wrong. That is what we call balance.
Dennis
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
MyJewishLearning.com, The Personal Gateway to Jewish Exploration Officially launches: http://MyJewishLearning.com/index.htm?source=shamash ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
19122 78 26_Re: an answer? a question?0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Dec 2002 23:43:51 EST359_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/22/2002 5:37:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@orionsci.com writes:
> The terror will not end until you either kill them all
>The iron fist of Sharon has only served to weaken the hand of those Palestinians who sought peace and reconciliation and strengthened Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the like. [...]
19201 122 26_Re: an answer? a question?7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:25:36 +0200579_iso-8859-1 noam, there is a mighty moral difference between suicide bombers who go to murder Israelis, and Arabs who are accidently killed during military exercize to stop these bombers. Israelis do not go around vigilante killing. We all feel the tragedy of what is happening to both sides. You try to equate the two sides and there is no equation. Closures and curfews were made only when military measures had to be taken to prevent further bombings. There was never a reason to stom go in and make a closure, the closure was always a reaction to some attack or killing. [...]
19324 93 57_Fw: 67 websites about Tu B'Shvat - The New Year for Trees7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 01:26:44 +0200461_iso-8859-1
----- Original Message ----- From: sgrafix To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 12:04 AM Subject: 67 websites about Tu B'Shvat - The New Year for Trees
Hi Everyone!
Tu B'Shvat, the New Year for Trees, falls on the 15th of the Hebrew month of Shvat, January 18 this year (5763 / 2003). This mini-holiday is of major importance to our appreciation of Nature and our relationship to it. [...]
19418 34 54_Re: Balance and the "masochistic omnipotence syndrome"11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 07:58:42 -0500359_us-ascii DLerner569@aol.com wrote:
> Noam, > > Neither does it necessarily mean he is wrong. That is what we call balance. > > Dennis
Hi Dennis,
Didn't say he was wrong, I only asked him to consider the possibility. This should be clear to any balanced reader.
Only 2 more habonet posting days until Christmas. Beat the rush! [...]
19453 41 26_Re: an answer? a question?11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:36:12 -0500387_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:
> noam, > there is a mighty moral difference between suicide bombers who go to murder > Israelis, and Arabs who are accidently killed during military exercize to > stop these bombers. Israelis do not go around vigilante killing. > We all feel the tragedy of what is happening to both sides. > You try to equate the two sides and there is no equation. [...]
19495 74 46_Re: an answer? a question? - a reply to Dennis11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:47:26 -0500583_us-ascii DLerner569@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/22/2002 5:37:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@orionsci.com writes: > >> The terror will not end until you either kill them all > > >The iron fist of Sharon has only served to weaken the hand > of those Palestinians who sought peace and reconciliation > and strengthened Hamas and Islamic Jihad and the like. > > Noam, I don't think it is necessary to kill them all in order to have peace, rather it seems self evident that a path of tit-for-tat, and gradual escalation leads to more deaths and a longer war, [...]
19570 53 26_Re: an answer? a question?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:59:25 EST538_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/22/02 11:44:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, DLerner569@aol.com writes:
> Noam, I don't think it is necessary to kill them all in order to have peace, > rather it seems self evident that a path of tit-for-tat, and gradual > escalation leads to more deaths and a longer war, than an overpowering > action to utterly defeat the enemy. It is the tactics of WWI vs. those of > WWII. Neither is pretty, but the second provides a quicker, longer lasting > and ultimately less costly conclusion. > [...]
19624 46 54_Re: Balance and the "masochistic omnipotence syndrome"0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:12:30 EST176_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/23/2002 7:59:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@orionsci.com writes:
> Beat the rush! >
I prefer to Beat the Bush. Dennis
19671 33 27_Re: Balance and who to beat11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:19:58 -0500404_us-ascii DLerner569@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 12/23/2002 7:59:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, nstopak@orionsci.com writes: > >> Beat the rush > > > I prefer to Beat the Bush. > Dennis
Yes, I see your point, and beating those around the Bush are also on the preferred list, but perhaps you will accept the possibility that Rush Limbaugh presents a large and inviting target too. [...]
19705 63 44_Re: an answer? a question? - a reply to Noam0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 10:45:02 EST386_US-ASCII Noam,
Your comment about my posting old thought as if they were new and exciting is a valid critique. I look at clouds and sunsets and children the same way, not to mention my wife. Others have noted this failing, but try as I might, when I think of something, it isn't remembering it, its finding it for the first time, every time. I'm sorry you find it annoying. [...]
19769 81 26_Re: an answer? a question?0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:28:35 EST559_US-ASCII Ow-ooh, Harsh Richard, very harsh,
It is certainly possible to see the colonization and westward expansion of the US as parallel to the in-migration of Jews to Israel and the colonization of the West Bank and Gaza. I feel guilt, shame, and great sympathy for the f-----g the Indians have taken and continue to take from the people and government of the US. It is truly a shandah. But the fact is all the Indians I know, and I am privileged to know quite a few (Syracuse is home of the Onondaga Nation, and the Onondaga are the keepers of [...]
19851 31 27_Re: Balance and who to beat0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 11:36:39 EST563_US-ASCII Ahah, A point of concurrence. I am excited. As I see it there are many issues here, but the one I fear most is that there is a natural bullyness in the core of Americans, "were better, stronger than you." And there is a strong anti-intellectual current as well, that I think Bush speaks to and is a natural fit for. There is also a tendency for action (right or wrong -"we'll fix it if its wrong") as the answer disconnected from analysis. These are strong elements of the grassroots American culture. We hate snobs and pretension. We prefer people [...]
19883 687 78_FW: A Letter from Israel - A MUST Read to Understand the Current Situation !!!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:17:34 -0800438_iso-8859-1 Harry
Having just finished reading your letter, I am still stunned. It is a brilliant "slice-of-life" that says it all. I will be passing it along to everyone.
Thanks
Steve -----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:00 PM To: * Harry W. Gluckman Subject: A Letter from Israel - A MUST Read to Understand the Current Situation !!! [...]
20571 677 45_FW: I don't talk so good either...Jack DeLowe11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:17:36 -0800370_iso-8859-1 Message -----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 8:54 AM To: hwgluckman@zapcom.net Subject: Fw: I don't talk so good either...Jack DeLowe
Their school system must be a lot like California's.
Forwarded by...
Dan Sorkin and Harry Gluckman
21249 242 29_FW: Who are the Palestinians?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 12:56:49 -0800564_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 6:54 PM To: Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; Elly Krapek; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: Fw: Who are the Palestinians?
Who are the Palestinians? Yashiko Sagamori National Unity Coalition
If you are so sure that "Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history", I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of Palestine: [...]
21492 98 33_Re: FW: Who are the Palestinians?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:09:52 EST627_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/23/02 3:53:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com writes:
> Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they > still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil > goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that > purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it > "Palestinian people" and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How else > can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept > back the "West Bank" and Gaza, respectively? > [...]
21591 21 28_Who (or what) is Steve Klein12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 16:10:36 -0500611_- Is Steve Klein a person, or is he (it?) just a bot which forwards right-wing loonacies?
Inquiring minds want to know!
David
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
MyJewishLearning.com, The Personal Gateway to Jewish Exploration Officially launches: http://MyJewishLearning.com/index.htm?source=shamash ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
21613 59 9_Loonacies11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 14:20:23 -0800523_iso-8859-1 Dear Fellow Habonetters
Enquiring people have been asking; Who IS Steve Klein?"
Well, I think he's a heck of a nice guy, who has given tons of his time and efforts and (some) money to good causes, over the years, and continues now. He is a proud and happy father and grandfather, and has served both America and Israel through 5 wars. (One as an active NON-participant). He works with mentally and physically disabled, and does volunteer work for mental patients, donating both time and money [...]
21673 29 13_Re: Loonacies12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 23 Dec 2002 17:27:38 -0500391_- Steve Klein asked:
> By the way, what are "LOONACIES"?
"Loonacies" is a neologism (which Webster's defines as "a word ... that is often disapproved because of its newness" and/or "a meaningless word coined by a psychotic" -- take your pick, I won't disagree).
"Loonacies" is intentionally evocative of lunacy, the moon, and the loon. [...]
21703 688 14_FW: Disturbing15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 11:35:48 +0200426_us-ascii This article was so interesting that I broke the rule against attachments. If someone wants the source itself, please let me know.
Prof. L. Diesendruck Petach Tikva Rd. 7/408 Netanya, 42461 Israel Phone: 011 971 9 860 1878 email: leodie@isdn.net.il
-----Original Message----- From: Resnir@aol.com [mailto:Resnir@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 04:48 To: Resnir@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Disturbing
22392 77 19_the Balestine State7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 10:39:43 +0200418_windows-1255 Someone said to me last week that there is no such thing as "Palestine," because there is no Arab who can say the letter "P." Arabs pronounce "P" as "B." So, if Palestine really is their country from time immemorial then why doesn't the world call it "Balestine" like they do? This same person went on to say "Palestine" comes from the Hebrew "polshim" -- (foreign) conquerers (plishtim)." Aaah..... [...]
22470 63 26_Re: an answer? a question?7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 00:49:54 +0200579_iso-8859-1 noam, misunderstanding what you say does not make me a liar. It is distasteful to call someone a liar -- especially in a public forum. I reread and reread what you wrote and I think I did not misunderstand. A suicide bomber goes out purposely to murder and create mayhem. A soldier is trying to defend himself and his comrades and prevent suicide bombers from getting to their destination. If he misjudges a situation or makes a mistake or accidently kills an innocent with a stray bullet, that is not murder, it is a misfortunate tragedy. You are still equating [...]
22534 34 66_Re: an answer? a question? - the last thing I have to say to Pearl11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 08:56:13 -0500471_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:
> noam, > misunderstanding what you say does not make me a liar. It is distasteful to > call someone a liar -- especially in a public forum.
Right, you are the sole arbiter not only of fact and correct understanding but good taste.
I can't stop you if you chose to misunderstand what I say. When you say that it is ok to kill them because you can't tell who is a combatant and who is not, I throw up my hands in despair. [...]
22569 90 43_To Pearl and Noam and the rest of the gang.0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 15:38:04 EST538_US-ASCII Pearl wrote > noam, > misunderstanding what you say does not make me a liar. It is distasteful > to > call someone a liar -- especially in a public forum.
And I answer___
I happen to agree with Pearl on this point particular point in question with Noam. But I do not agree that it is distasteful to call someone a liar in a public forum. Pearl has been so lose with the truth over and over again that we will need some word to describe this sort of chronic behavior. Let us remember that Pearl Skolnik lead us [...]
22660 158 25_Who are the Palestinians?0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 16:11:54 EST312_US-ASCII
> > If you are so sure that "Palestine, the country, goes back through most of > recorded history", I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions > about that country of Palestine:
Below are my answers to you quiz Steve.
> > When was it founded and by whom? [...]
22819 99 15_Reply to Pearl.0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 16:14:21 EST485_ISO-8859-1 a message dated 12/24/02 6:11:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, skolnik@netvision.net.il writes:
> > Truly, after living through every war here since 1956, each time believing > that now we will see Peace, I do not see any way out. The Arabs want it > all, they do not want Judea and Samaria and Gaza alone, they want all of > Israel. They say this in all their propoganda, in their school books, on > TV, on radio, in the newspapers, in the mosques. I believe them. [...]
22919 119 14_I'm sober now.0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 17:00:50 EST386_US-ASCII Dear Hobonetters, including Sam and Richard and Noam and Pearl and Amnon, and Sue,
Here is how I'm feeling (and thinking) now.
It is unquestionably the role of the Jew to rationalize, particularly regarding the behavior of others toward the Jews. "What did I do?", we ask ourselves. "How could I can I prevent this, what should I explain?" we ask ourselves. [...]
23039 82 4_noam7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 00:52:52 +0200292_iso-8859-1 noam,
I never said that it is okay to kill anyone and you know it, which makes your writing what you did even worse. The Arabs plan and go out specifically to murder. They even dip their nuts and bolts for the bombs in rat poison so as to make the injuries even worse. [...]
23122 45 8_Re: noam0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Dec 2002 19:40:15 EST583_US-ASCII Pearl, You are obviously right on all but one point, which I think is an important one. In every military there are people who have misshapen psyche's, who are abusive and opportunistic. In a war such as ours where the enemy can't be identified separately from an entire population and where there is such disparity in tactics and objective, I believe this is even more so the case. The ethical values and discipline of the IDF and reservists are admirable, but not absolute at any rank. The small numbers who are not simply the implements of government policy, but of [...]
23168 112 17_the liar answers.7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 02:27:12 +0200574_iso-8859-1 I did not lead anyone to believe that Yigal Amir did not kill Rabin. For god's sakes! I wrote about what was being discussed in the Israeli media and some things I knew personally -- not rumours -- that raised very strong questions about what really happened and why. Leah Rabin and her two children asked for a reopening of the investigation into Rabin's death as a result of the books and the articles written about this subject. They, too, had questions about what happened. The whole thing died down fast enough. The very fact that Raviv's trial is only [...]
23281 148 40_Pearl Writes Sam Answers and All is well0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 10:08:42 EST320_US-ASCII
So here below is an exchange between Pearl and Sam done over thousands of miles and done with a smile. Hopefully no one's feelings will be permenantly damaged for the rule of thumb in a debate is to keep everyone feeling good even if the truth (assuming that there is such a thing ) is sacraficed. [...]
23430 62 14_RE: Disturbing11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 07:39:11 -0800584_US-ASCII My experience with the new German mentality came in 1961, during my year of Workshop at Gesher Haziv. At that time, several groups of young Germans were coming to Israel on "Atonement Tours". The Holocaust was still fresh. I attended some of their meetings to get a feel for who these people were and what they were about. Unfortunately, my German is sketchy, so after the speechmaking was over, I asked a couple of the German youth what it was about, and what all the references to Hitler were about. Their answer, essentially, was "Hitler promised to make Germany the [...]
23493 30 4_Snow0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 13:34:58 EST478_US-ASCII Chaverim:
Just thought I'd drop you a line wherever you are and let you know that here in typically sunny Syracuse, we've ad a lovely soft white snowfall of maybe 10 inches with up to 14 predicted. For those of you not fortunate enough to be where there is a lovely blanket of down covering trees and bushes and rooftops and sidewalks, let me just say, I'm sorry you're missing it. It is almost as beautiful as a Gesher Haziv sunset ... hey, I said almost. [...]
23524 72 9_Balestine0_15_Amriv18@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 14:41:56 EST591_US-ASCII Haverim/ot By the rivers of Manhattan, here I sit, not really crying but very bemused. First as a member of Habonim in the forty's I was a Zionist. Later after Aliya in 48 I became a charter member of the reborn Jewish State. Under both headings I truly believed in Herzl's declaration that a Jewish State would safeguard Jews from the worst outrages of anti-Semitism. OK, so he was wrong on some of the minute particulars. But pace the greatest blooper, the holocaust, essentially he was right. Physically, we are no longer defenseless lambs at the hands of murderous others. [...]
23597 50 8_Re: Snow0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 14:59:34 EST566_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/25/02 1:35:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, DLerner569@aol.com writes:
> It is > almost as beautiful as a Gesher Haziv sunset ... hey, I said almost. >
As someone who has seen a snow covered outside today (what a waste, not even a school day) and the sunset at Gesher Haziv, I can say that the sunrise and sunset at Grofit is better than both. (Has anyone seen the film White Mischief - Sarah Miles' character has a great line about a similar sunrise in Kenya, I would quote it here but for fear it would offend [...]
23648 49 8_Re: Snow12_Karen Fisher23_pkfisher19@peoplepc.com31_Wed, 25 Dec 2002 17:03:09 -0500583_iso-8859-1 Dennis, I am so happy for your snow. Here in Cincinnati, where it is only, rainy, cold and dreary with a bit of ice, I wish you a happy and warm year.
Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 1:34 PM Subject: Snow
> Chaverim: > > Just thought I'd drop you a line wherever you are and let you know that here > in typically sunny Syracuse, we've ad a lovely soft white snowfall of maybe > 10 inches with up to 14 predicted. For those of you not fortunate enough to [...]
23698 284 44_Re: Pearl Writes Sam Answers and All is well7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 02:12:56 +0200579_iso-8859-1 I wrote that people are not talking about dismantlement NOW, because..... Dismantlement is talked about for some of the settlements, not all, and certainly not NOW. Now is the key word. read it again, sam. Now.
sam, Dr.Goldstein was known as a doctor. He treated hundreds of injured soldiers, thousands of patients, we all knew him as a doctor, not as a kachnik. Are all of us who knew him and respected and loved him "kachniks?" Really, sam. I wrote this before: in his lifetime he was respected and loved for his devoted care of his patients. It was his [...]
23983 56 44_Re: Pearl Writes Sam Answers and All is well0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:33:44 EST334_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/26/02 10:11:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, skolnik@netvision.net.il writes:
> I wrote that people are not talking about dismantlement NOW, because..... > Dismantlement is talked about for some of the settlements, not all, and > certainly not NOW. Now is the key word. read it again, sam. Now. [...]
24040 53 44_Re: Pearl Writes Sam Answers and All is well0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:35:19 EST420_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/26/02 10:11:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, skolnik@netvision.net.il writes:
> > sam, Dr.Goldstein was known as a doctor.
There you go again. Dr. Goldstein lived and died as a thug. If you are for Goldstein and the thugs who still worship him you have betrayed every value that is worth anything. Dr. Goldstein was a member of Kach. Down with thugs. Down with murderers.
24094 45 44_Re: Pearl Writes Sam Answers and All is well0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 10:36:51 EST295_US-ASCII In a message dated 12/26/02 10:11:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, skolnik@netvision.net.il writes:
> I know I keep telling you I won't put myself into the fray anymore, > >
There you go. Don't put yourself in the fray. Don't praise Goldstein. You have made a wonderful start.
24140 635 9_Fw: Ooops13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 19:01:45 +020029_windows-1255
24776 197 43_Another Habo in Jail for refusing the serve0_13_Ezrox@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 12:46:49 EST553_ISO-8859-1 Dear Habo Chevre,
A very good friend of mine, Anton Marks, is being sent to prison today for refusing the serve his military shift in the West Bank. I lived with Anton for two years on Kvutsat Yovel in Jerusalem. His main request as he headed to jail was to have this forwarded to as many people as possible and to get the word out. Neither the US nor the Israeli media give any publicity to this refusnick movement. But it is growing and it is becoming too significant to ignore. People need to know that Jews and Israelis, even [...]
24974 19 13_Re: Fw: Ooops0_13_sc523@aol.com31_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:44:47 -0500526_iso-8859-1 What was this message - did we miss it? ACC
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
MyJewishLearning.com, The Personal Gateway to Jewish Exploration Officially launches: http://MyJewishLearning.com/index.htm?source=shamash ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
24994 33 13_Re: Fw: Ooops0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 21:54:10 EST80_US-ASCII Aliyah, it was a message to be downloaded.........a photograph.
25028 652 13_Re: Fw: Ooops0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Dec 2002 22:23:54 EST17_US-ASCII
25681 82 73_Cycling in Solidarity for Peace, Partnership and Environmental Protection0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:14:19 EST613_UTF-8 Hi All,
A friend of mine is organizing this exciting project to raise environmental awareness in Israel. * Cycling in Solidarity for Peace, Partnership and Environmental Protection * Please check it out.
Ride from Tel Aviv to Eilat through the beautiful Negev Desert, while showing your solidarity with Israel in this difficult time. They will ride between 40 and 65 miles a day; via Ashqelon, Beer Sheva, Sde Boker, Mitzpe Ramon, the Arava Valley and ending up with a swim and snorkel at Eilat’s world renowned Coral Reef. This is a unique opportunity to make a difference and to have [...]
25764 21 25_If I am not for myself...0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Dec 2002 19:04:54 EST617_US-ASCII Can anyone provide the full quote in transliterated Hebrew or Aramaic, or in Hebrew characters. I suspect its in Aramaic. Thanks, Dennis
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
MyJewishLearning.com, The Personal Gateway to Jewish Exploration Officially launches: http://MyJewishLearning.com/index.htm?source=shamash ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
25786 32 29_Re: If I am not for myself...0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:33:21 EST125_US-ASCII " Im ain ani li mi li?, uch'she'ani latzmi, ma ani? V'im lo achshav, ai matai?....I think it is from Pirkei Avot.sue
25819 507 55_Fwd: "The Eternal Nazi: Watching THE PIANIST in Germany0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Dec 2002 20:34:09 EST43_US-ASCII This should start some banter..sue
26327 58 31_Internship: Yiddish Book Center11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Fri, 27 Dec 2002 23:25:41 -0600745_us-ascii Subject: INTERNSHIP: Yiddish Book Center (Sarna)
From: Jonathan D. Sarna Subject: INTERNSHIP: Yiddish Book Center
INTERNSHIPS AT THE NATIONAL YIDDISH BOOK CENTER Summer 2003
Since 1980, the National Yiddish Book Center has rescued more than one million unwanted and discarded Yiddish books, and has distributed thousands of volumes to students, scholars, and libraries around the world. The Center also produces a wide range of innovative cultural and educational programs that integrate knowledge of Yiddish literature and culture into the mainstream of American Jewish life. Our Visitors Center in Amherst features museum exhibitions, a public garden, an English-language bookstore, and [...]
26386 112 52_Haaretz December 28, 2002 Could there be a surprise?0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Sat, 28 Dec 2002 11:06:10 EST478_US-ASCII Haaretz, Saturday, December 28, 2002 Tevet 23, 5763Israel Time: 17:38 (GMT+2)
Could there be a surprise?
By Gideon Samet
The fascinating mystery is not whether the Likud will eventually end up with more than 30 seats and Labor reaches, let's say, 25. The numbers are stubbornly repetitive. The Likud leads by more than 10. Mitzna's not really taking off. The real question is whether there could be a surprise. [...]
26499 316 20_Well-educated idiots13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Sat, 28 Dec 2002 19:06:52 +0200615_windows-1255 This item is available on the Campus Watch website, at http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/398
Lessons in hate, on a campus near you by Leonard Stern Ottawa Citizen December 14, 2002
WASHINGTON - Nearly 2,000 people gathered here recently in a hotel auditorium to discuss the Arab-Israeli conflict. The U.S. State Department agreed to send a representative, and David Satterfield, the No. 2 man in its Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, got the call. It was a miserable assignment, for the audience was almost unanimous in its hostility to both Israel and the United States. [...]
26816 31 56_Re: Haaretz December 28, 2002 Could there be a surprise?0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 29 Dec 2002 23:55:22 EST393_US-ASCII
In a message dated 12/28/02 11:06:56 AM, HESHIG@aol.com writes:
<< This week, 29 years ago, immediately after the most horrible war in the history of the country, one of the worst prime ministers we ever had won one of the most impressive victories >>
I can't remember no matter how hard I probe - who was the prime minister right after the Yom Kippur War? [...]
26848 31 56_Re: Haaretz December 28, 2002 Could there be a surprise?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 30 Dec 2002 00:48:51 EST22_US-ASCII Golda I think
26880 21 29_News Flash: God endorses Shas0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Mon, 30 Dec 2002 10:52:40 EST605_US-ASCII Or those on the list who want to please the almighty, check out this link.
http://shas.web-site.co.il/shas/swf/im.swf
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/
MyJewishLearning.com, The Personal Gateway to Jewish Exploration Officially launches: http://MyJewishLearning.com/index.htm?source=shamash ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
26902 744 43_FW: Here is another Letter from Solly Ganor11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:01:28 -0800692_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 9:37 PM To: Elly Krapek; Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: Fw: Here is another Letter from Solly Ganor
Dear Harry, I thought that I would interest you in an article I wrote after I was invited to Germany by the German government. My book, 'Light One Candle', was translated into German and was recently introduced to the German High Schools as a study book for the subject on the Holocaust. Therefore I am frequently invited to Germany to give lectures on the Holocaust in German High, universities [...]
27647 41 33_RE: News Flash: God endorses Shas11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 30 Dec 2002 08:11:31 -0800511_US-ASCII FINALLY! Humor on Habonet. Thanks, Heshig. I love the "God-on-our-side" stuff. Never fails to tickle. Thanks for sending it along.
Steve
-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of HESHIG@aol.com Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 7:53 AM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: News Flash: God endorses Shas
Or those on the list who want to please the almighty, check out this link. [...]
27689 602 15_FW: for Habonet10_Josh Cohen22_mazkir@habonimdror.org31_Mon, 30 Dec 2002 18:38:03 -0500726_US-ASCII
LABOR ZIONIST ALLIANCE OPPOSES SETTLEMENT ACTIVITY
The Labor Zionist Alliance called today for a complete freeze on Israeli settlement activity.
LZA President Jeffry V. Mallow said, "The decision by Israel's Housing Ministry to build another 232 housing units in the West Bank settlement of Immanuel, thus accommodating the growth rate of the settlement's fervently Orthodox families, is another obstacle to peace. The 'road map' towards peace supported by the U.S. expressly calls for no further settlement activity. America has delayed implementation of this road map in order to avoid prejudicing the upcoming Israeli elections. The Sharon government has taken advantage [...]
28292 273 38_I wish the MESA people could see this.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:19:39 +0200472_windows-1255 Imagine a national student union who, when called upon to demonstrate for the Palestinians and the Muslim "liberation" of Al-Kuds (Jerusalem), refuses because it opposes Islamic terror and it supports the right of Israel to exist as an independent state. Well, it's true. Not in Berkeley. Not in Cambridge. Not in Ann Arbor. In Tehran. That's right folks. The Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran issued the following statement: [...]
28566 116 14_ha aretz today0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 17:52:29 EST668_US-ASCII Posted By Sam F
Fences that obscure reality
After more than two years of lethal terror attacks that have exacted a terrible price on both sides of the Green Line, change can be discerned in the settlers' orientation. Eliezer Hisdai, the Yesha Council of Settlements security chief, told Ha'aretz on Sunday that a clear majority of settlements in the territories want to erect electronic fences. Only 10 out of 150 settlements still refuse to surround their areas with some sort of fence, despite the frequent murderous terror attacks in the territories; these 10 insist on putting the lives of their [...]
28683 242 8_ha aretz0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:03:18 EST394_US-ASCII
By Gideon Levy
Haaretz 15 December 2002
Is it too much to ask Israelis to take a look, even a glimpse, at what's going on in their backyard? Are we even capable of dropping our relentless preoccupation with primaries and the battle between Tnuva and Strauss over cottage cheese, to pay attention to what is happening in the territories under our occupation? [...]
28926 144 8_ha aretz0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:09:55 EST722_US-ASCII Wednesday, January 01, 2003 Tevet 27, 5763 Israel Time: 01:03 (GMT+2)
Back Home
Intifada arises from occupation, Palestinians assert
By Amira Hass
This is a partial toll of the price Palestinian society has paid during the last two years of intifada. More than 1,800 people were killed by the Israeli military, more than 40,000 people were injured (including hundreds with permanent disabilities), thousands of people lost their homes to army demolition, there is a jobless rate of 50 percent, more than half the population live below the poverty line, there is an almost permanent curfew confining more than half a [...]
29071 43 46_Re: FW: Disturbing (also The Eternal Nazi etc)11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:24:49 -0500450_us-ascii Since Sue chose to forward this article again, I'll send what I wrote but didn't send back wne Leo forwarded the message back on 12/24:
Leo Diesendruck wrote:
> This article was so interesting that I broke the rule against > attachments. If someone wants the source itself, please let me know. > > Prof. L. Diesendruck > Petach Tikva Rd. 7/408 > Netanya, 42461 Israel > Phone: 011 971 9 860 1878 email: leodie@isdn.net.il [...]
29115 34 21_Re: the liar answers.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:25:51 -0500327_us-ascii I don't get it. Do you believe that Shin Bet killed him or not? Continuing to repeat the rumors and inuendo on this subject implies to me that believe that this is true.
As for the number of convictions of Israelis killing Arabs, perhaps you will consider what this says about the criminal justice system. [...]
29150 37 47_Re: To Pearl and Noam and the rest of the gang.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:26:51 -0500315_us-ascii Smfgrappa@aol.com wrote:
> Pearl wrote > >> noam, >> misunderstanding what you say does not make me a liar. It is distasteful to >> call someone a liar -- especially in a public forum. > > > And I answer___ > > I happen to agree with Pearl on this point particular point in question with Noam. [...]
29188 34 21_Re: the liar answers.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 31 Dec 2002 19:27:06 -0500514_us-ascii I don't get it. Do you believe that Shin Bet killed him or not? Continued inuendo on this subject implies to me that believe that this is true.
As for the number of convictions of Israelis killing Arabs, perhaps you will consider what this says about the criminal justice system.
Noam
p.s. I predict a response which points out (correctly) that nothing like a criminal justice system operates under the PA (or in most arab countries for that matter) but which ignores the point. [...]