1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet November 2002 2 70 8_friends?16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 01 Nov 2002 00:23:48 -0500609_us-ascii In Habonet 2398, Noam Stopak writes about me

> The > article Elihu sent the other day about the support of the far Christian right > comes to mind. > To elaborate, and perhaps to help clarify just a bit. During the McCarthy era, no one was pro-Communit. But the anti-Communists were a pretty embarrassing bunch. A fortiori it's our ostensible "friends" who make me very uncomfortable by their professed love and concern for us. Remember that Martin Luther was a one-time philo-Semite until he realized that Jews wouldn't follow him. Then he became a virulent anti-Semite. There's the old [...] 73 24 56_Human Rights Watch: Suicide bombers guilty of war crimes11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net30_Fri, 1 Nov 2002 07:25:45 -0800581_iso-8859-1 Link to interesting article:



http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meast/11/01/human.rights.palestinians/index.ht ml



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com

Find us at COMDEX 2002! http://hebrewcollege.edu/comdex ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 98 39 19_media bias & Israel16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 02 Nov 2002 17:32:33 -0500490_us-ascii *Wednesday, November 6th at 7:30 pm Also at Beit Shalom located at 114 West 26th Street 10th floor

"MEDIA BIAS AND ISRAEL: Who is winning the Public Relations War?" with Seth Ackerman from FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting) and Sharon Tzur from Media Watch International. The speakers will be presenting divergent perspectives on media bias concerning reporting of the Arab-Israeli conflict and specifically on the last two years of violence in the Middle East. [...] 138 471 73_FW: FYI~THE BATTLE FOR A SAFER WORLD: UN OR US? in Pakistan Today Oct. 1811_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:27:49 -0800492_iso-8859-1

-----Original Message----- From: Jo-ana D'Balcazar [mailto:politics2see@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 10:47 AM To: politics2see@hotmail.com Subject: FYI~THE BATTLE FOR A SAFER WORLD: UN OR US? in Pakistan Today Oct. 18



FOR YOUR INFORMATION - You may REPRINT the article and forward to your friends

Jo-ana D'Balcazar's article "THE BATTLE FOR A SAFER WORLD: UN or US?" was published by PAKISTAN TODAY on Friday, November 1, 2002. [...] 610 343 68_FW: FYI~JERUSALEM DIVIDED OR NOT? in The Jewish Observer Oct 28-Nov311_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:39:58 -0800489_iso-8859-1

-----Original Message----- From: Jo-ana D'Balcazar [mailto:politics2see@hotmail.com] Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 10:36 AM To: politics2see@hotmail.com Subject: FYI~JERUSALEM DIVIDED OR NOT? in The Jewish Observer Oct 28-Nov3



FOR YOUR INFORMATION - You may REPRINT the article and forward to your friends

A short version of Jo-ana D'Balcazar's article "JERUSALEM DIVIDED OR NOT?" was published in THE JEWISH OBSERVER on October 28, 2002. [...] 954 294 97_FW: Here is a list of legislators who voted "No" on yesterday's resolutions of support for Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sat, 2 Nov 2002 21:46:06 -0800676_iso-8859-1

-----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:30 PM To: hwgluckman@zapcom.net Subject: Here is a list of legislators who voted "No" on yesterday's resolutions of support for Israel



Clear Day Friends, if ever there was a definitive list of the anti-Israel members of Congress, we have it now. It's these 23 members who voted against the other day's House and Senate resolutions of support for Israel. Please feel free to forward this list to your friends. No other issue and no US political party allegiance is more important in these times than the safety and security [...] 1249 1168 18_J'lem Post Article15_Leo Diesemdruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il30_Sun, 3 Nov 2002 11:48:57 +0200654_us-ascii I am pasting in the article below. Any comments?





The Jerusalem Post Internet Edition

CAROLINE B. GLICK'S COLUMN ONE: An agenda for the Likud

_____







Nov. 1, 2002

_____

Since the 1980s, under the direction of Shimon Peres, the Labor Party establishment has become one with the leftist ideological fringe. It was in the era of unity government in the 1980s that Peres discarded his security-minded and ideologically motivated support for the settlement movement in Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza Strip of the 1970s and embraced appeasement as a national strategy. [...] 2418 38 22_Re: J'lem Post Article11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 03 Nov 2002 11:06:40 -0500597_us-ascii

I'm confused by the assertion that Jabotinsky was a liberal. Can someone explain how this view is possible?

Allow me to paraphrase Jon Baum's point about how "it [is] curious that a group of active, intelligent and articulate souls such as the [Israeli] Habonetters seemed to have nothing to say on the subject" of Labor's departure from the government. Is taking a stand on funding of settlement expansion a sign that the Labor party is trying to recapture it's soul? Or does it reflect the assertion the the J.Post article that Leo sent that the party is a group of [...] 2457 122 31_Fw: 118 websites about Chanukah7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 03 Nov 2002 15:02:37 +0200700_iso-8859-1



----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob mailto:jrichman@jr.co.il Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:24 AM Subject: 118 websites about Chanukah



Hi Everyone!

Chanukah, the Jewish Festival of Lights, is observed for eight days, beginning on the evening of the 25th day of the Hebrew month of Kislev. This year Chanukah starts at sundown, Friday, November 29 (candle lighting before Shabbat candle lighting) and lasts for eight days thru Friday night, December 6th, 2002. Chanukah is a wonderful holiday of renewed dedication, faith, hope and spiritual light. It's a holiday that says: "Never lose hope." Chanukah commemorates the victory of a small [...] 2580 38 22_Re: J'lem Post Article12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 04 Nov 2002 13:56:48 -0500491_- Noam Stopak wrote:

> I'm confused by the assertion that Jabotinsky > was a liberal. > Can someone explain how this view is possible?

Rather than asserting that Jabotinsky was a liberal, the article says that Jabotinsky sought to establish "a liberal Jewish democracy."

I know what a liberal democracy is. I think I know what a Jewish democracy is -- a democracy for Jews. But to me, a "liberal Jewish democracy" seems like a contradiction. [...] 2619 210 22_Jerusalem Post Article12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:57:44 +0200557_us-ascii Leo, Well you did it. I'll rise to the bait of Caroline B.Glick's article which you posted. But there may be typos in this message because I'm typing with only one hand - the other is engaged in holding my nose. The substance of her piece is noisome, the style sophomoric, the allegations unfounded. It should have been recognized by the editors of the J Post for what it is, a political bromide and submitted as an ad. Noam asked: > I'm confused by the assertion that Jabotinsky was a liberal. Can someone explain how this view is possible?> [...] 2830 662 73_AT&T Worldnet Top News - JDL's Irv Rubin Brain Dead After Suicide Attempt16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 04 Nov 2002 21:44:47 -0500100_us-ascii

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=021104&cat=news&st=newspeoplerubindc 3493 94 35_Making Order Out of Chaos/ Analysis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Tue, 5 Nov 2002 19:08:59 -0600336_us-ascii Making Order Out Of Chaos By Dr. Mike Cohen



Ariel Sharon proved once again that his political instincts are far sharper than people think. In calling for elections within 90 days, the Prime Minister put all the pressure of proof on his opponents, both within the Likud and within the national body politic. [...] 3588 983 43_FW: Yashiko Sagamori for Secretary of State11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:52:54 -0800490_iso-8859-1

-----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:45 PM To: hwgluckman@zapcom.net Subject: Fw: Yashiko Sagamori for Secretary of State



From: "Yashiko Sagamori" Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:32 AM

Have you ever thought that, in the unfolding conflict between the Muslim world and the civilization, the Muslims behave much more logically than the West? [...] 4572 289 51_FW: PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY OFFICIAL TV FRIDAY SERMON11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Tue, 5 Nov 2002 17:54:52 -0800680_iso-8859-1

-----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:58 AM To: hwgluckman@zapcom.net Subject: PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY OFFICIAL TV FRIDAY SERMON



If anyone still has any lingering doubts as to whether we are facing an anti Zionist or an antisemitic threat, this Muslim sermon should make it very clear that we are being threatened as Jews. Please make this as widely known as possible, and particularly discuss it with our Christian friends and any moderate Muslims you know. It is very hard to line this up against a background of constantly being told that true Islam does not call [...] 4862 1448 22_FW: J'lem Post Article15_Leo Diesemdruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il30_Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:42:56 +0200504_us-ascii The are comments on the J'lem Post article - I have permission to post them on HABONET.





Prof. L. Diesendruck

Petach Tikva Rd. 7/408

Netanya, 42461 Israel

Phone: 011 971 9 860 1878 email: leodie@isdn.net.il





-----Original Message----- From: Abel [mailto:abel@012.net.il] Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 13:05 To: Leo Diesemdruck Subject: RE: J'lem Post Article









[Jeff Abel] my comments: [...] 6311 171 35_FW: a list of news sites for Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Wed, 6 Nov 2002 09:32:09 -0800390_Windows-1252

-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 8:05 PM To: Avravraham and Malka Czyzyk; Eileen Kelmanson; Max and Shelly Plager; Bob and Barbara Fruitman; Israel and Marlene Zakai; Barry Szemere; Carol Nalin; Danny and Chantal Leven; Geoff and Linda Remes Subject: Fw: a list of news sites for Israel [...] 6483 93 59_From Save-A-Child's Heart Foundation-re: Dr. Ami Cohen, z"l0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Nov 2002 12:47:41 EST544_US-ASCII I was asked to post the following by Vadie and Dolores Cohen, the parents of Dr. Ami Cohen, z"l, chaver and madrichin Habonim ( from Washington-Baltimore) from 1954-2001:

Dear Friends: We are writing to you to elicit your support for the Save A Child's Heart Endowment Fund in Memory of Dr. Amram (Ami) Cohen, z'l, founder fo Save A Child's heart. Once a year we ask for your financial support in saving the lives of poor children suffering from heart disease, who, without your support, would die an early, painful death. [...] 6577 43 47_Re: FW: Yashiko Sagamori for Secretary of State11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 07 Nov 2002 11:39:26 -0500668_us-ascii Steve Klein wrote:

> > -----Original Message----- > From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:45 PM > To: hwgluckman@zapcom.net > Subject: Fw: Yashiko Sagamori for Secretary of State > > From: "Yashiko Sagamori" > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 7:32 AM > ... > > We are doomed to destruction unless we start treating Islam the way we did Nazism. I am not calling for an anti-Muslim genocide: our decisive victory in WWII was achieved without exterminating the Germans. Instead, we exterminated Nazism. Today, we have no choice but to exterminate the most murderous ideology [...] 6621 337 73_FW: Exclusive Message From Earl krugel, Co-Chairman of the Jewish Defense11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Thu, 7 Nov 2002 10:19:43 -0800672_iso-8859-1

-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 8:36 PM To: Elly Krapek; David Remis; Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; Dan Sline; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: Fw: Exclusive Message From Earl krugel, Co-Chairman of the Jewish Defense





Dear friends,

Earl Krugel has worked in my dentist's office for many years and has also worked on my teeth all those years. He and his wife have also been to my home. We've had many conversations, while I was held captive in the dental chair, on America, Israel etc. I know him to be a very loyal American and Jew. It's [...] 6959 217 16_From Gush Shalom0_14_HESHIG@aol.com31_Thu, 07 Nov 2002 14:55:56 -0500616_utf-8 This article was not written by a JDL member. **************************************** Ramat Ha Sharon, 6.11.2002 Ramallah, One Day and One Night under the Occupation. Yehudith Harel Just one short glimpse into another reality, a reality of the Israeli Occupation of Ramallah, the most central city of Palestine. October 2002. Why should an Israeli just "visit" Ramallah these days? For sure it is not the most pleasant place in the world to "visit" and there is a big question mark over the legitimacy of such a visit by an Israeli these days. Despite of various possible reservations, I think it was an [...] 7177 48 13_Israel travel16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:31:54 -0500718_us-ascii Saw this on Haaretz's website. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Friday, November 08, 2002 Kislev 3, 5763

American Airlines slashes prices [from Israel] to NYC [and other locations] By Zohar Blumenkrantz

U.S. carrier American Airlines, is offering special prices on flights from Israel to a variety of U.S. destinations through December 4. The airline's Israeli representative, Tal Aviation, reports that the deals include flights to the New York area's JFK and Newark airports starting at $499 for a round trip. Round-trip tickets to Boston are available starting from $560 per person. Prices to several destinations, including Washington DC, Chicago, Atlanta and Philadelphia, start at [...] 7226 55 8_Columbia16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 07 Nov 2002 23:35:57 -0500712_us-ascii Pernicious divestment campaign against the State of Israel Hits Columbia University JCRC endorses http://www.columbiadontdivest.org/ drive to counter campaign Columbia University has just joined the list of college campuses around the country where campaigns have been launched calling for universities

to divest from companies that manufacture and/or sell arms to Israel. The pernicious and distorted charge leveled against Israel alleges the "use of Israeli military force on a civilian population as a "fundamental problem in the conflict." This crusade is the latest development in vicious attempts to malign, isolate and delegitimze the Jewish state and deny its right to self defense. [...] 7282 74 20_Re: From Gush Shalom21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy16_tsippi@attbi.com31_Fri, 08 Nov 2002 01:19:18 -0800298_us-ascii At 11:55 AM 11/7/02, you wrote: >My host took me to the house of Jewish couple from England who came to >Ramallah as an act of solidarity. They have been there since the first >incursion. She is a Psychologist writing a book about the effect of the >Intifada on Palestinian children. [...] 7357 51 18_remove from mailin5_YIGAL18_ysela@inter.net.il30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 14:34:52 +020082_windows-1255 please remove me from mailing list

thank you

yigal sela 7409 124 27_From the Harvard Law Review11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 07:37:27 -0600464_ISO-8859-1

The Record - Opinion Issue: 11/07/02

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Divestment Panel shows intellectual laziness By Alex M. Gordon

Two weeks ago, I noticed a “Justice for Palestine” flyer. Although I would consider “Drive the Jews into the Sea” a more honest name for this group, I stopped to read the advertisement, and eventually decided to attend the event. [...] 7534 122 62_=?windows-1255?B?5PLh+DogKHBvbGk=?=tics) academic antisemitism0_19_simagr@telhai.ac.il30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 18:04:48 +0200612_windows-1255 Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 3:37 PM Subject: Treatment of Israel strikes an alien note - By Alan M. Dershowitz, The National Post, November 5, 2002

Treatment of Israel strikes an alien note

By Alan M. Dershowitz National Post November 5, 2002

If a visitor from a far away galaxy were to land at an American or Canadian university and peruse some of the petitions that were circulating around the campus, he would probably come away with the conclusion that the Earth is a peaceful and fair planet with only one villainous nation determined to destroy the peace and to [...] 7657 86 22_RE: remove from mailin11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 09:32:29 -0800345_windows-1255 Yigal

We'll miss you

Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of YIGAL Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 4:35 AM To: Habonet@Shamash. Org Subject: remove from mailin



please remove me from mailing list

thank you

yigal sela 7744 46 48_The Palestinian Situation- Spotlight on Ramallah11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 10:44:56 -0800605_iso-8859-1 Dear Yehudit Harel

I enjoyed your article very much. Your sensitive observations and thoughts touched me and made me think and reflect. Any people of conscience would seriously take note and deeply despise the perpetrators of such destruction and suffering as you describe.

Just one minor question. At the end of a lot of your so-descriptive paragraphs, you (or some typo-gremlin) added a phrase: "it is our doing". I don't get it. Admittedly, I am really slow, so please have patience. By "our", do you mean "we" as "Me and Chairman Arafat"? Do you mean "we" as "Me and the [...] 7791 66 33_yehudit harel article on Ramallah7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 09 Nov 2002 23:50:16 +0200606_windows-1255 She blames everything on the occupation, which is misleading, for Judea and Samaria, including Ramallah, flourished from the time the occupation began after the Six Day War. There was complete freedom of movement of Arabs and Jews. It is the murderous Intifada that caused the situation that Harel describes, not the occupation. Israeli soldiers and tanks would never have gone into Ramallah if there were no Intifada, no suicide bombers, no bombs. I think Ms.Harel should go to Afula and meet the teenager who lost both legs and one arm in a suicide bombing attack. Or maybe to meet the [...] 7858 218 18_Re: Yehudith Harel0_14_HESHIG@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 21:52:44 EST570_ISO-8859-1 No Yehudith Harel is not a name that I write under. She is just someone who I heard speak recently and have developed a great deal of respect for. Under the strong belief that many of the participants in this site might be interested in a different perspective than Irv Rubin and friends, I posted the very depressing letter that I received from Gush Shalom. In order to give some more background on Yehudith(after all, she was raised in Hashomer and not Habonim so maybe she shouldn't be posted here at all!) A brief bio (taken from a local publication [...] 8077 338 29_RE: Yehudith Harel ( Replies)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:20:59 -0800533_iso-8859-1 Dear Heshig.

For your record, I have never been JDL, nor a sympathyser. I sent along an article about the possible abuse of a human being, Irv Rubin. I don't know how far into the article you actually got, or how much you might even care, but that is OK.

My questions to Ms Harel are still valid. And you can pull your nose back down out of the air; it isn't all that flattering a position. If you'd like to tell someone to screw off, then just say it. you don't have to pretend that you are morally or [...] 8416 25 8_Response11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 19:25:41 -0800582_iso-8859-1 Dear Heshig@aol.com

Upon reading your response to my letter, I went back to review what I had written. I wanted to see what might have set you off. I think I found it. I had once again lost my objectivity (and my patience). Human. Oh well.

Steve

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com [...] 8442 92 18_Re: Yehudith Harel21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy16_tsippi@attbi.com31_Sat, 09 Nov 2002 20:16:48 -0800505_us-ascii Dear Heshi,

At 06:52 PM 11/9/02, you wrote: >Unfortunatly,I do not know these people who moved to >Ramallah. Perhaps they are bad people. Is there a chance >that they are good people? Can we be open minded to that >possibility? If I were to move to Ramallah in solidarity with >some Palestinian families whom I knew to be honest and >good people, does this mean that I cannot be compassionate >to Israelis? How about being compassionate to my own son, >an Israeli who works in Haifa? [...] 8535 344 18_Re: Yehudith Harel13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Sat, 9 Nov 2002 23:56:31 -0500545_iso-8859-1 Heshi,

You old dog, my greatest pal ever in Gezer, actually my father when I first came to Gezer back in 1981, my friend and my supporter, my counselor and my guide, the only one of my very few real friends there that was with me and my Mom at Asaf Harofeh hospital in that difficult Monday morning in March of 1985, two weeks before Pesach, when my oldest daughter, Gal, was born. You were there with me, and you gave me cigarettes to smoke as we waited for the doctors word. Thanks dear friend, I could never forget how [...] 8880 68 5_reply7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Nov 2002 08:31:41 +0200346_windows-1255 1. Yes, I read other points of view, but that does not mean I have to agree with them. And if these views are expressed on this public list I have a right to respond to them. I find it obnoxious that a Jew expresses the view of the other side without mentioning or by distorting the reasons for the situation on the other side. [...] 8949 61 38_To Steve Re: Yehudith Harel ( Replies)11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:07:14 -0500394_us-ascii Hey Steve,

Nobody has to slam your intellect when you flaunt your lack of reading comprehension. Heshi said you posted a JDL message to this list. Did you or didn't you? Seems like a matter of fact to me.

Also, please help me out - are you saying you've never sent a condescending message to this list? Or only that it bothers you when you are on the receiving end? [...] 9011 39 16_[Fwd: Re: reply]11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 10 Nov 2002 15:20:08 -0500604_us-ascii

Pearl,

Just as you claim the right to express your views and forward material to this list, I hope you will refrain from attacking others for doing likewise. Talk about obnoxious Jews and those who speak as of their words came down from Sinai. Do you seriously believe that the many Israelis like Ms. Harel who have views which differ from yours haven't experienced the intifada and lost friends and family? Isn't it possible that they have and have simply reached different conclusions about how to move toward a better situation? You seem to believe you have a monopoly on [...] 9051 231 30_This is from an Israeli woman.0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 07:27:34 EST360_US-ASCII I am not the least afraid to go any place, By bus or to a mall.

I didn't change or stop doing anything I used to do before this mess began!

People tend to forget that twice the casualties From terror get killed on the roads!

More people still die From heart attack, cancer, And other things, They just don't show them on TV. [...] 9283 59 18_Re: Yehudith Harel12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:48:25 +0200579_us-ascii Heshi, Yishar Koah. Pearl, I feel that what I find so noxious about the notions you post on Habonet, worse than the outlandish chapters and verses you bring in their support is to invariably hit the juggler vein. The snide, hectoring, holier than thou, clinchers you often add to your arguments often pull at ghoulish proof: ITEM: < I think Ms.Harel should go to Afula and meet the teenager who lost both legs and one arm in a suicide bombing attack. Or maybe to meet the father and daughter from Neveh Aliza, completely paralyzed. Their wife and mother was killed [...] 9343 184 38_Article from Ma'ariv: not an easy read0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 08:57:57 EST667_US-ASCII

The Aftermath

"What have I done!" - a hundred soldiers treated for "Intifada Syndrome" translated from Ma'ariv by TOI-staff

[box on front page, Ma'ariv, 5/11/02]

A special "rehabilitation village" has been set up to take care of former combat soldiers who suffer from a deep mental crisis, a hundred of whom are at present undergoing treatment. Some suffer from nightmares and are unable to face up to operational failures and having harmed civilians. Veterans of elite units are being treated at the "Izun" rehabilitation village near Caesarea, by a staff including seven reserve officers. The project is supported by Orit [...] 9528 37 19_"Od nimshechet...."0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:31:42 EST574_US-ASCII I am saddened again by the personal attacks here. Last week, Penina Mellick and her husband Simcha spent time in Los Angeles, and were interviewed about their son, Gedaliah, who was killed in Ramallah, by Phil for his TV show. Penina is Pearl's sister, and I remembered her as being a beautiful 15-year-old with a biblical aura ( I always thought she looked like "Rivka")...and now as a mother, she is suffering the loss of a son whose legedndary kindness went way beyond even her own knowledge of him. I don't think there is any monopoly on suffering. We all [...] 9566 31 18_Re: Yehudith Harel0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:46:25 EST36_US-ASCII And so goes Ahavat Yisrael. 9598 31 18_Re: Yehudith Harel11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 11:55:08 -0500567_us-ascii



Emabear@aol.com wrote:

> And so goes Ahavat Yisrael.

Can you elaborate? Are you saying "my country, right or wrong"? or perhaps "The ends justify the means"?

I favor "the truth shall set you free".

Noam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com [...] 9630 343 27_Essau's Hands Jacob's Voice12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 19:33:21 +0200568_iso-8859-1 Haverot/im I’d like to take up a new thread from a venerable talit. It is the strand of election, choseness and legitimation of the Jews by virtue of God’s love for them. Today is Shabbat Toledot (Gen. chaps 25 - 28) in which Yitzhak and Rivka weave their conflicting skeins of favoritism towards their sons, Esau and Ya’akov. I was asked to give the d’var torah in our synagogue, Mevakshei Derekh. Here is some of what I said there and I’d dearly like to read your responses. Toledot begins with “And these are the Toledot of Isaac” translated as the [...] 9974 34 18_Re: Yehudith Harel0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 17:03:45 EST120_US-ASCII Dear Noam, What I am in favor of is everyone being able to express their opinion w/o being personally attacked. 10009 111 54_Interesting look at social justice in the good ol' USA0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 18:20:30 EST409_US-ASCII This is from the famous Granny D. who walked across the US in her 90th year campaigning for campaign finance reform. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- To my Dear Friends:

Now THAT was an election.

A few friends who are blue about the election have called me, looking for some philosophical cheer from their 92 year-old friend. Well, all right. [...] 10121 218 24_FW: A Letter from Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:38:57 -0800676_iso-8859-1

-----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 3:26 PM To: hwgluckman@zapcom.net Subject: A Letter from Israel



I have not written in a long while -- I simply had nothing useful to say. Last night a brave Palestinian freedom fighter entered a kibbutz in the heart of Israel (roughly halfway between Haifa and Tel Aviv) and killed five people, among them a mother trying to protect her two toddlers and the children themselves. Apparently he first shot the mother and then methodically killed each of the children, using two bullets on each. For defenders of the Palestinian [...] 10340 85 18_RE: Yehudith Harel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 15:49:01 -0800760_us-ascii Amnon

Please do not let this stuff harden you.

Steve

















-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Amnon Hadary Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 5:48 AM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: Yehudith Harel



Heshi, Yishar Koah. Pearl, I feel that what I find so noxious about the notions you post on Habonet, worse than the outlandish chapters and verses you bring in their support is to invariably hit the juggler vein. The snide, hectoring, holier than thou, clinchers you often add to your arguments often pull at ghoulish proof: ITEM: < I think Ms.Harel should go to Afula and meet the [...] 10426 158 18_RE: Yehudith Harel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:07:52 -0800703_us-ascii Tsippi

Thank you for being.

Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Tsippi (Frances) Rudy Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:17 PM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: Yehudith Harel



Dear Heshi,

At 06:52 PM 11/9/02, you wrote:

Unfortunatly,I do not know these people who moved to Ramallah. Perhaps they are bad people. Is there a chance that they are good people? Can we be open minded to that possibility? If I were to move to Ramallah in solidarity with some Palestinian families whom I knew to be honest and good people, does this mean that I cannot be compassionate to [...] 10585 361 83_FW: 30 sec. actions: JAT 08 Nov 2002: ANTI-divestment petition atUPenn and Colombia11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:07:51 -0800591_us-ascii 30 sec. actions: JAT 08 Nov 2002: ANTI-divestment petition at UPenn and Colombia -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 8:25 PM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: 30 sec. actions: JAT 08 Nov 2002: ANTI-divestment petition atUPenn and Colombia



>From Our friends at Jat action another anti-divestment petition. Please sign and FWD to your friends. Also a reminder if you did not sign yet on the Colombia University anti divestment petition please sign. Go to the link: http://www.columbiadontdivest.org/other.asp [...] 10947 27 18_Re: Yehudith Harel11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:16:09 -0500582_us-ascii



Emabear@aol.com wrote:

> Dear Noam, > What I am in favor of is everyone being able to express their opinion w/o being personally attacked.

Me too. I responded when I read the attacks that Steve and Pearl wrote. Where were you then?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com [...] 10975 19 34_Re: This is from an Israeli woman.0_12_AZMD@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Nov 2002 20:25:42 EST523_US-ASCII God, that was wonderful. I will forward it all over the place. Allan Zubkin

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com

Find us at COMDEX 2002! http://hebrewcollege.edu/comdex ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10995 313 35_Re: Rabbi Ascherman's November Tour0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Nov 2002 02:52:26 EST643_UTF-8 Chevre, shalom

If we follow Yitzhak Rabin's advice A"H to fight terrorism as though there were no peace process and work for peace as if there were no terrorism, then we'll want to check out Rabbi Ascherman if he's at an event near you.

Chaver Steve

I think there must be a corollary to Reb Yitzhak's dictum that goes like this. We must accept all of Israel's allies in the war against terrorism, regardless of their political stripe and we must accept all supporters of Israel's quest for peace, regardless of their political stripe. =============================================== In a message dated 11/12/02 [...] 11309 250 55_Urgent Action on behalf of a Jewish family in Argentina13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 12 Nov 2002 08:59:10 -0500456_iso-8859-1 Dear Friends,

This appeal to help an Argentinean Jewish family living under death threats came to me by way of a friend in Amnesty International. I thought some of you might want to take part in a campaign to alert Argentinean officials on their behalf.

Shalom, Judy Gelman



vcolucci@aius a.org To: vcolucci@aiusa.org

cc: 11/11/02 Subject: Urgent Action on behalf of a Jewish 05:06 PM family in Argentina [...] 11560 33 16_attack at Metzer11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:10:48 -0500585_us-ascii

I'm reading this morning about the terrible attack at Kibbutz Metzer and a number of thoughts come to mind. There are the obvious ones about how tragic that again a number of innocent lives are cut short for no good reason. The injustice that a community which is clearly working hard to coexist with their neighbors (who also seem to be working hard to coexist) should be targeted, though perhaps those who wish to perpetuate the conflict chose them for just that reason. But mostly I am struck by hope when I read that people from these communities (Metzer and [...] 11594 38 0_10_Josh Cohen22_mazkir@habonimdror.org31_Wed, 13 Nov 2002 11:34:07 -0500647_us-ascii >From the LZA:

LABOR ZIONIST ALLIANCE LAUDS ISRAEL LABOR PARTY'S WITHDRAWAL FROM GOVERNMENT:

The Labor Zionist Alliance (LZA) commended the Israel Labor Party for withdrawing from the government.

Jeffry V. Mallow, LZA President stated, " LZA has long argued that the settlements are a major obstacle to peace, and has for some time been urging Labor to leave the government if Prime Minister Sharon continued expansion of settlements. We are pleased that the party has now done so, and on that issue. The Israel Labor Party has once again found its voice as the representative of Israelis who suffer deprivation [...] 11633 397 65_FW: JAT 13 Nov 2002: Columbia Prof Urges Killing of American Olim11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 13 Nov 2002 09:05:13 -0800429_US-ASCII FW: JAT 13 Nov 2002: Columbia Prof Urges Killing of American Olim -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 9:06 PM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: FW: JAT 13 Nov 2002: Columbia Prof Urges Killing of American Olim



Action from our friend at Jat Action. Please Read and act. Don't forget to bcc (Blind Carbon Copy) on the e-mails: bcc4israel@yahoo.com [...] 12031 58 17_Barak in Berkeley11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Thu, 14 Nov 2002 06:03:39 -0600409_ISO-8859-1

Message: 10 Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:10:29 EST From: Friendlymensch@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Community Member Tickets Still Available for Ehud Barak! Berkeley

For those of you near Berkeley next Tuesday night.

Dr. Ed Beck Scholars for Peace in the Middle East www.spme.net

In a message dated 11/13/02 8:05:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, iac@berkeleyhillel.net writes: [...] 12090 412 21_Joe Kleom on the Dems13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:58:13 +0200622_windows-1255 I've been reading a lot of commentary on the performance of the Democratic Party in the recent mid-term elections - another example of my masochistic streak I suppose. I thought that this piece from Slate to be pretty close to the bone.



Can the Democrats be Revived? By Joe Klein Wa-ay back in 1976, when Gov. Jerry Brown of California belatedly entered the presidential race, he was asked about his political philosophy. Was he to the left or to the right of Jimmy Carter? "Both," he replied. Obviously, this has some relevance now. The Democrats are back to navel-gazing, hand-wringing, [...] 12503 255 36_FW: New Generations Benefit - Nov 2110_Josh Cohen22_mazkir@habonimdror.org31_Thu, 14 Nov 2002 19:07:56 -0500575_US-ASCII

-----Original Message----- From: Ariella Sidelsky [mailto:ariella@nifny.org] Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 4:11 PM Subject: New Generations Benefit - Nov 21





Dear all,

This is just a gentle reminder that the New Generations Benefit is fast approaching - Nov 21st.

It would be great to see you there and have you support NIF. Please also take the time to forward the invitation below to friends and encourage them to join us or make a donation: its a fantastic party and -- needless to say -- a very worthy cause. [...] 12759 209 43_Ramadan Soap Opera/ Washington Post article11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Sat, 16 Nov 2002 11:12:38 -0600723_ISO-8859-1

Egyptian TV Drama Sparks Charges of Anti-Semitism Ramadan Soap Opera > Inspired by Infamous 'Protocols' of Zion -- > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30543-2002Nov8.html> > > By Rajiv Chandrasekaran > Washington Post Foreign Service > Saturday, November 9, 2002; Page A20 > > CAIRO, Nov. 8 -- During the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, as Egyptians > lounge in front of television sets to digest their long-awaited evening > meal after a day of fasting, it has become something of a tradition for > Cairo stations to capitalize on the peak viewing season by airing > controversial soap operas. > > Last year's [...] 12969 20 31_Haaretz/ Kibbutz Ha-On (Hebrew)11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Mon, 18 Nov 2002 07:31:17 -0600625_us-ascii I am just sending the URL because the article is in Hebrew.

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasite/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=231956&contrassID=1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com

Find us at COMDEX 2002! http://hebrewcollege.edu/comdex ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12990 40 21_Ha-on Article Haaretz11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Mon, 18 Nov 2002 09:10:05 -0600506_us-ascii Government decides to dismantle cash-strapped Kibbutz Ha'on

By Amiram Cohen, Ha'aretz Correspondent







The government decided Sunday to take apart Kibbutz Ha'on, which is located on the banks of the Kinneret. The kibbutz's assets will be used to pay outstanding debts and to insure pension plans and lodging for the members of the kibbutz. 80 percent of the kibbutz's members supported the move to take it apart, passing the special majority of 75 percent. [...] 13031 487 42_Fwd: Essau's Hands Jacob's Voice and Purim12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:16:43 +0200652_iso-8859-1 Forward Sent to 10th workshop newsletter >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 22:08:02 +0200 >To: Workshopreunion@topica.com >From: Amnon Hadary >Subject: Essau's Hands Jacob's Voice and Purim > >Haverim/ot >Helen Frenkly wrote: " It isn't about God, it's about us. But the Us/US/us >has become incredibly complicated. When Amnon wrote, the murders were >taking place in the Hashomer Hatzair Kibbutz Metzer. As I write, 14 people >were killed on the way home from Friday night prayer at the Cave of the >Makhpela in Hebron. Yea, they were "settlers" and the soldiers and border >guards protecting them ­ does that make them [...] 13519 142 35_Jacob Richman's great Chanukah Site7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 18 Nov 2002 21:01:48 +0200390_iso-8859-1 Enjoy! and happy holiday to all. pearl

Chanukah, the Jewish Festival of Lights, is observed for eight days in honor of the historic victory of the Maccabbees and the miracle of the oil. The holiday begins on the eve of the 25th day of the Hebrew month of Kislev. This year the first candle is lit on Friday, November 29, prior to the lighting of the Shabbat candles. [...] 13662 91 51_and there was darkness upon the land.....4 funerals7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:07:28 +0200538_windows-1255 I once asked my son, Yoram, why he went to all the funerals of those killed in the Intifada, even of those whom he did not know. He answered: "mommy, it is the only way to feel the pain of the Jewish People."

This week I felt in full the pain of the Jewish People. I went to four funerals of 3 men and one woman murdered in the latest wave of attacks. It was heartsearing. The first was for Yitzhak Baonish, Alex Duchan and Alex Tzvitman, killed in the ambush in Hebron. Thousands of people were there, yet there [...] 13754 154 25_Great. You can have ours.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:38:36 +0200355_windows-1255 Powell Wants More Muslims in U.S. Mon Nov 18, 8:38 PM ET Add White House - AP Cabinet & State to My Yahoo!





WASHINGTON (AP) - Secretary of State Colin Powell said Monday he is trying to expand programs to bring educators, journalists and political and religious leaders from Islamic countries to the United States. [...] 13909 46 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 19 Nov 2002 14:46:50 -0500635_us-ascii Hi Jon,

Your what? Your Muslims? Your Muslim educators? Your bigots and extremists? Your secretary of state?

Are you a "leftwinger for transfer"?

Just wondering.

Noam

Jonathan Baum wrote:

> Powell Wants More Muslims in U.S. > Mon Nov 18, 8:38 Add White House - AP Cabinet & State to My Yahoo! PM ET > > WASHINGTON (AP) - Secretary of State Colin Powell said Monday he is trying to expand programs to bring educators, journalists and political and religious leaders from Islamic countries to the United States. "We are committed to ensuring that our programs reach out to Muslims [...] 13956 44 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 05:40:08 +020032_ISO-8859-1 All of the above. Jon 14001 31 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 19 Nov 2002 23:14:54 EST63_US-ASCII Then u have to take Ashcroft, and Enron and Bob Erlich 14033 49 15_asking THE LORD4_Stan17_stan@inter.net.il31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:51:26 +0200155_iso-8859-1 Pearl asks G -d to watch over his people. Yet the killing goes on. The lord does not listen to Pearl or many others. What are we doing wrong ??? 14083 26 19_Re: asking THE LORD11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 06:30:31 -0500527_us-ascii



Stan wrote:

> Pearl asks G -d to watch over his people. Yet the killing goes on. The lord does not listen to Pearl or many others. What are we doing wrong ???

voting for likud?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com [...] 14110 29 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 06:33:58 -0500581_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:

> All of the above.Jon

That's what I thought. I suggest you look instead for "Muslim partners to expand to the circle of peace, the circle of prosperity, the circle of freedom". I wish you the best of luck. Truly.

Noam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com [...] 14140 143 22_Letter from Danny Mann22_Rachel Jenkins-Stevens26_foundation@habonimdror.org31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 10:44:11 -0500630_iso-8859-1 I regret to inform you that Doody (Dr. Irving) Lutsky passed away in Jerusalem this past Saturday. Doody and his widow, Chassie, both came from families with deep movement roots, and they themselves built a communally-involved and truly Labor Zionist home in Milwaukee and then, following their aliyah some 30 years ago, in Jerusalem, where Doody served on the faculty of the Hebrew University-Hadassah Medical School. In our organizational world, Doody was a member of the Poale Zion Central Committee in the 1960's and a founding sponsor of the Habonim Dror Foundation in the 1990's. His three daughters live in [...] 14284 36 19_Re: asking THE LORD0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:06:24 EST448_US-ASCII Maybe Hashem is answering and we don't understand the answer. My grandson, who is 7 and a "yeshiva bocher" call me the other day so excited that I could hardly understand him. "Bubbie, bubbie, I just found, all by myself, in the Chumash, that Hashem told the Jews that everywhere they looked, yamah v'kedmah, safonah v'negbah, he gave the land to them. So what's with the Arabs?" I told him that they didn't read the same books that we do. 14321 31 19_Re: asking THE LORD11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:17:27 -0500486_us-ascii Emabear@aol.com wrote:

> Maybe Hashem is answering and we don't understand the answer. My grandson, who is 7 and a "yeshiva bocher" call me the other day so excited that I could hardly understand him. "Bubbie, bubbie, I just found, all by myself, in the Chumash, that Hashem told the Jews that everywhere they looked, yamah v'kedmah, safonah v'negbah, he gave the land to them. So what's with the Arabs?" I told him that they didn't read the same books that we do. [...] 14353 53 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 18:28:17 +0200188_iso-8859-1 Sure, why not? After all the every one in the Islamic world is just hammering on our door trying to make peace with us.

Anyway, it was just a joke. Lighten up.

Jon 14407 30 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:46:10 -0500455_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:

> Sure, why not? After all the every one in the Islamic world is just hammering on our door trying to make peace with us. Anyway, it was just a joke. Lighten up. Jon

I've been joking too, but there is a grain of truth in most jesting.

Seems to me the people in the village of Meisir near kibbutz Metzer might be members of the Islamic world you could start talking to? Or is it a Christian village? [...] 14438 122 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:41:47 +0200576_iso-8859-1 I talk to Arabs every day.

I just don't believe in the adage: "Governments don't make peace, people do." Peace activists from both sides (mostly ours) have been spinning around in circles for many years now and it has had absolutely no effect on the situation. The members of Metzer were largely peace activists themselves. I'm certain that there are individual Arabs who are willing to live in peace with us, but so what? How does it help? Where are their peace demonstrations? As long as the PA is run by a terrorist gang (You asked me once what were [...] 14561 45 29_Re: Great. You can have ours.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:02:58 -0500434_us-ascii Thanks for sharing your thoughts Jon, and for speaking frankly. I always appreciate it, even when I disagree.

When I asked about the mistakes of Oslo I believe I also mentioned dealing with the Tunis gang so we are certainly in agreement there.

I offer no justification for "collateral" damage caused by American actions in Afghanistan. Please rest assured I rag on my own government much more than yours. [...] 14607 29 39_Washington Jewish Film Festival 12/5-100_18_Rachelbern@aol.com31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 13:48:14 -0500583_iso-8859-1 DC/Balt Chevre,

37 films from 16 countries! The schedule for this year's Festival is on-line (www.wjff.org) and tickets go on sale tomorrow-- hope y'all* can come on down!

The complete Washington Jewish Film Festival Guide will be an insert in the Washington Jewish Week on 11/21 and in the Washington Post Weekend Section 11/22; you can also pick one up at the upcoming Jewish Folk Arts Festival (11/24) and at various coffee shops, video stores, libraries, synogogues, etc. (and at the DCJCC at 16th & Q, NW, where most of the films will be screened) [...] 14637 33 19_Re: asking THE LORD0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:23:12 EST40_US-ASCII Noam, I'm Ellen Mayers Ginsburg 14671 45 19_Re: asking THE LORD0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 19:49:17 EST328_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/20/02 3:10:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, stan@inter.net.il writes:



> Pearl asks G -d to watch over his people. Yet the killing goes on. The lord > does not listen to Pearl or many others. What are we doing wrong ??? >

Talking to a nonexistent being and expecting that to help. 14717 42 19_Re: asking THE LORD16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:00:39 -0500 14760 65 19_Re: asking THE LORD0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 21:20:11 EST621_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/20/02 8:59:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, gelman@erols.com writes:



> Or at the very least a non-interventionist being. Many modern theologians > think that the main purpose of prayer is to inspire the person offering the > prayer into taking concrete action. Mouthing words but not doing anything > to bring about the actualization of your prayer has been ineffective for > the Jewish people for 2000 years. Before that, sacrifice was the mainstay > of religion and that didn't seem all that effective either. Herzl's great > insight was that you have to stop praying for [...] 14826 157 19_Re: asking THE LORD13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Thu, 21 Nov 2002 01:10:49 -0500444_iso-8859-1 Very well written, Judy. I can't say I completely agree or not without a lot of additional thinking especially regarding the prayer part, but it is an extremely concise, accurate, and well written synthesis of an entire historical world view. Mazal tov, yishar koach. ___ |Y| ^^^ ----- Original Message ----- From: Judith R. Gelman To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 9:00 PM Subject: Re: asking THE LORD [...] 14984 46 3_why4_Stan17_stan@inter.net.il31_Wed, 20 Nov 2002 11:31:43 +020085_iso-8859-1 can someone tell me why postings to Habonet appear twice in the "in mail"? 15031 104 8_Berkeley16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 21 Nov 2002 04:31:29 -0500438_us-ascii The Wall Street Journal's enewsletter OpinionJournal.com, had the following item about Ehud Barak's recent appearance at UC Berkeley. I append the entirety of the item following: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Ehud Barak spoke at UC Berkeley yesterday, and the Daily Californian reports the erstwhile Israeli prime minister drew some 200 protesters who can't abide even a dovish Israeli: [...] 15136 41 7_Re: why11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:33:15 -0500572_us-ascii



Stan wrote:

> can someone tell me why postings to Habonet appear twice in the "in mail"?

I'm guessing you already tried asking the LORD :-)

I'm guessing you mean that you receive 2 copies of your own messages? Often email programs have an option to send a copy to yourself, typically as a bcc (blind carbon copy). There are three ways to deal with this situation. One is to just delete the extra. The second is to turn off the feature in your mail program. The third is to tell habonet not to send you copies of your own [...] 15178 96 17_Barak at Berkeley11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Thu, 21 Nov 2002 06:06:26 -0600593_us-ascii FORMER ISRAELI PM SPEAKS ON CAMPUS > > Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak speaks to a packed Zellerbach > Hall. Barak was met by applauding admirers and chanting protesters. > > By EMMA SCHWARTZ > and JAY KAPP > > Wednesday, November 20, 2002 > > Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak was met by the cries of nearly > 200 protesters when he spoke last night on campus-but unlike when the last > Israeli leader visited Berkeley, the evening proceeded as planned. > > The high-security event was marked by several confrontations between > protesters and Barak supporters. [...] 15275 66 13_danny boyarin7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:26:25 +0200392_windows-1255 Re the forward from Roz about Barak's speech at Berkeley:

there is mention of Danny Boyarin protesting Barak's speech with very descriptive negative adjectives. Danny is a professor of Talmud, if I am not mistaken. He was a chanich in Habonim for many years.

I once attended Arabic language classes with him here in Jerusalem, after which he left for America. [...] 15342 49 20_Chanukah Card Stamps0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Nov 2002 21:58:37 EST470_US-ASCII A woman goes to the post office to buy stamps for her Chanukah cards. She says to the clerk, "May I have 50 Chanukah stamps?"

The clerk asks, "What denomination?"

The woman says, " O my G-d. Has it come to this?























Give me 6 Orthodox,

12 Conservative,



and 32 Reform."







Chag Sameach well in advance [...] 15392 75 52_Fwd: Mitzna's Victory Must Become Our Shared Victory12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Fri, 22 Nov 2002 12:49:07 -0500632_- Mitzna's Victory Must Become Our Shared Victory

Gershon Baskin *

Wednesday, November 20, 2002

We finally had some good news this morning. Amram Mitzna took the Labour Party leadership with 54% of the vote. While recognizing the need to caution ourselves from being burned in the past, it seems that Mitzna truly does represent a new breed of Labour Party leaders. Despite the campaign over the past weeks when politicians usually work overtime to hide what are usually perceived to be unpopular views, Mitzna has been steadfast in holding and presenting his positions. Just two days ago he restated that [...] 15468 104 19_By Meron Benvenisti0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Nov 2002 18:01:53 EST514_US-ASCII

The never-ending enterprise

By Meron Benvenisti (Meron Benvenisti, former deputy mayor of Jerusalem, is a historian and author).



The response to the bloody ambush in Hebron was instinctive: After all, establishing "Jewish points of presence" along a line of territorial contiguity between Jewish areas that were built in their day in the wake of previous incidents, has been "an appropriate Zionist response" ever since the days of Tel Hai and the "stockade and tower." [...] 15573 80 13_Danny Boyarin16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:12:04 -0500591_us-ascii Marty Goodman, formerly of Tel Aviv and now in San Francisco, has taken up my request to touch base with Danny Boyarin and querry the veracity of the his comments in the recent enewsreport of the Wall Street Journal. Here's what Marty wrote in his response to me privately.

> Professor Dan Boyarin's response to my inquiry regarding his statement as > reported in the Wall Street Journal is as follows: > > >rushing right now. I will respond more fully next week. meanwhile, yes it > >was reported accurately, however the interpretation that Taranto put on the > >words [...] 15654 35 20_save a child's heart0_15_Moshava@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:28:39 EST372_US-ASCII in the recent issue of moment magazine there is a wonderful article on ami cohen and save a child's heart foundation. i couldn't find the link on line but if you can get the magazine, the article is well worth reading. you will feel very proud of ami's work. the article mentions his habonim connection and the support his widow now recieves from habonim friends. 15690 32 24_Re: save a child's heart0_18_RickGlaser@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Nov 2002 11:31:46 EST97_US-ASCII i have not seen the article, but we did send a $50 donation from camp to the foundation. 15723 80 56_Help the Habonim Dror Foundation Without Writing a Check0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Nov 2002 13:10:45 EST611_ISO-8859-1 Dear Habonetters,

The Habonim Dror Foundation has just implemented a new way of giving to the movement. The best part is that you don't have to actually give us any money. The Foundation is registered at igive.com, a website linked to hundreds of online vendors, like amazon.com and amazon.ca, ebay, Old Navy, JC Penny, Best Buy, Dell computers, buy.com and lots more. When you shop through the igive.com website (which takes you directly to the shopping sites) the vendors donate a percentage of your purchase to your chosen charity. Now you can help ensure that the movement is able to [...] 15804 149 18_Let's Take a Break0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:02:35 EST378_US-ASCII We've become so serious on Habonet I hope you'll enjoy taking a little break with this piece of clever writing (forwarded by Aliya):

Abbott and Costello in China

Playwright Jim Sherman wrote this today after Hu Jintao was named chief of the Communist Party in China.

HU'S ON FIRST

By James Sherman (We take you now to the Oval Office.) [...] 15954 37 17_Re: Danny Boyarin0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Nov 2002 18:02:39 EST592_US-ASCII Danny Boyarin and I have remained friends throughout the years although our political views are quite different. Danny has held the first fully-endowed seat in Talmud in the country for several years now and is currently chair of the Judaic Studies Department at Univ. of California at Berkeley as well. And, yes, although his wife Chava is Israeli, he and Chava lived in Israel for many years, and his two sons both served in the Israeli army, Danny is fiercely anti-Zionist and does not believe in the State of Israel's right to exist. As a totally Orthodox man (his rabbinic [...] 15992 364 14_Jewish mothers13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:18:55 +0200431_windows-1255 Jewish mothers

The Harvard School of Medicine did a study of why Jewish women like Chinese food so much. The study revealed that this is due to the fact that "Won Ton" spelled backwards is "Not Now."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There's a big controversy on the Jewish view of when life begins. In Jewish tradition, the fetus is not considered viable until after it graduates from medical school. [...] 16357 133 44_NYTimes.com Article: Walling In, Walling Out0_16_tsippi@attbi.com37_Sun, 24 Nov 2002 12:08:07 -0500 (EST)671_- This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by tsippi@attbi.com.





Walling In, Walling Out

November 24, 2002 By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN











OBSERVATION POST DORA, South Korea - In the last three weeks I've visited two of modern history's great walls - the Berlin Wall in Germany and the "Green Wall" in Korea, also known as the demilitarized zone separating North and South Korea. It's called the Green Wall here because so little human activity has happened in the 155-mile-long DMZ for the past 50 years that its forests and rivers have become one of the world's richest nature preserves, [...] 16491 331 18_Re: Jewish mothers10_david baum23_rdbaum@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 24 Nov 2002 20:09:13 +0200419_windows-1255 What did I do to deserve this !!!!

Your Mother ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: Habonet Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 6:18 PM Subject: Jewish mothers



Jewish mothers

The Harvard School of Medicine did a study of why Jewish women like Chinese food so much. The study revealed that this is due to the fact that "Won Ton" spelled backwards is "Not Now." [...] 16823 53 17_Re: Danny Boyarin11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 24 Nov 2002 14:31:58 -0500584_us-ascii SC523@aol.com wrote:

> Danny Boyarin and I have remained friends throughout the years although our > political views are quite different. Danny has held the first fully-endowed > seat in Talmud in the country for several years now and is currently chair of > the Judaic Studies Department at Univ. of California at Berkeley as well. > And, yes, although his wife Chava is Israeli, he and Chava lived in Israel > for many years, and his two sons both served in the Israeli army, Danny is > fiercely anti-Zionist and does not believe in the State of Israel's right [...] 16877 23 16_we have returned6_livney20_livney@barkai.org.il31_Sun, 24 Nov 2002 22:48:33 +0200595_iso-8859-1 please return us to your list....preferably to your digest form....thank you...bot7 livney (livney @barkai.org.il) -------------------------------- Avi and Bat7 Livney Kibbutz Barkai D.N. Menashe 37860 Israel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16901 61 23_Re: HABONET digest 242012_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:50:05 +0200552_us-ascii Jonathan, I want to share two reactions I had to the collection you posted on Jewish mothers. On, not about. On as on a billboard. On as a joke - as in to poke fun at someone - telling a joke on someone. You are a quick study so you know where I'm going. My first reaction was to smile, grin and laugh. My second was embarrassment. I was ashamed at my amusement and perhaps over-reacting. Humor, after all is the great healer. But I am categorically opposed to categorical thinking about identifiable groups no matter if they are gypsies [...] 16963 41 22_Removal form listserve5_YIGAL18_ysela@inter.net.il31_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:22:39 +020055_windows-1255 How do I remove myself from the listserve? 17005 32 14_Jewish Mothers12_Trilby Smith18_trilbyds@yahoo.com37_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 05:50:14 -0800 (PST)362_us-ascii I don't know about others on Habonet, but I find these jokes about Jewish mothers both horribly anti-woman, but also anti-semitic (or self-hating, whichever you prefer). I'd request that people think twice before sending jokes like these to a large list of people.

Are any of your mothers/wives/daughters really like this? I know my aren't. [...] 17038 37 18_RE: Jewish Mothers11_S. Stuhlman23_stuhlman@mindspring.com31_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 09:40:02 -0500598_US-ASCII It was humor. Most humor is based on hyperbole.

I got a nice smile out of it and it brightened my day.

Sometimes it seems like this list could use some humor. This collective "chip-on-the-shoulder" mentality is getting a little worn.

Just my opinion.

-----Original Message----- >snip, snip< I don't know about others on Habonet, but I find these jokes about Jewish mothers both horribly anti-woman, but also anti-semitic (or self-hating, whichever you prefer). I'd request that people think twice before sending jokes like these to a large list of people. [...] 17076 56 23_Re: HABONET digest 242013_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:29:59 +0200271_iso-8859-1 Well, Amnon, I learned a long time ago that one's first reaction is usually the best one. Don't feel guilty. I'm perfectly willing to hear jokes about white Ashkenazi men (WAMS?), as long as they're funny.

Let's hear it for freedom of speech.

Jon 17133 48 18_Re: Jewish Mothers0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 12:13:58 EST616_US-ASCII Just to add another perspective: I attended a wonderful program at the University of Judaism, in Los Angeles, yesterday. The program was "The Trail of Abraham". Two top lawyers spoke to Abraham's guilt or not to the charge of attempted murder of his son Yitzhak. Anyway, at the end, a Beit Din, four prominent rabbis, one from each stream of Judaism (Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, and Orthodox) present their opinion. Here's the point. One of the rabbis said one of the reasons that the Jewish people are still here, after every other great empire has disappeared, can be attributive to the [...] 17182 31 18_Re: Jewish Mothers11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 13:00:11 -0500642_us-ascii



Emabear@aol.com wrote:

> Just to add another perspective: I attended a wonderful program at the University of Judaism, in Los Angeles, yesterday. The program was "The Trail of Abraham". Two top lawyers spoke to Abraham's guilt or not to the charge of attempted murder of his son Yitzhak. > Anyway, at the end, a Beit Din, four prominent rabbis, one from each stream of Judaism (Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, and Orthodox) present their opinion. > Here's the point. One of the rabbis said one of the reasons that the Jewish people are still here, after every other great empire has disappeared, [...] 17214 40 20_Jon's Yiddeihe Mamas11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 10:40:42 -0800328_iso-8859-1



Jon

As long as this survey has been proffered, I will cast my vote in favor of people needing to lighten way up.

Your list was funny, appropriate and well taken by the people that I hang with. God, I could just see the next line in the newspaper, announcing the death of all humor. [...] 17255 37 18_Re: Jewish Mothers0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:05:18 EST493_US-ASCII No question in my mind, guilty. The question was if he knew that Hashem would bail him out or not. If yes, he wasn't guitly. If no, then he was. If he knew that at the very end Hashem would intercede, then what kind of a test was it. The Recontructionist Rabbi had a Midrash that Sara heard Hashem speak the Abraham and become the angel(messenger of G-d). According to the midrash, she "schlepped" up Har Moriah herself and delivered the ram. Still thinking about that. Ellen Ginsburg 17293 62 64_We Need New Dancers for Habonim-Dror to Rock the Dance Festival!0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Nov 2002 00:18:30 EST526_US-ASCII We need Habonim-Dror dancers of all ages - if you have ever enjoyed Israeli dance and you live within 1-1/2 hours of New York City, please read on:

Two years ago, Habonim-Dror put together a maapilim ensemble and re-entered the Israeli Dance Festival after a 15 year absence. It was the 50th year of the Dance Festival, coinciding with the 50th year of Habonim Workshop. It had been years since Habonim used to win trophies for its ruach and dance choreographies, and had its photo in the New York Times. [...] 17356 41 18_Re: Jewish Mothers0_16_Aborciah@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:36:43 EST512_US-ASCII For what it's worth, I vote with you. Laughing at ourselves, which is healthy (and typical of Jewish humor) does not have to be offensive. This type of "humor" underscores the stereotypes and feeds into the beliefs of those who don't need that kind of reinforcement to believe that these are the characteristics of the majority. As you stated, I don't know Jewish women like that either...and, though I grew up with Jewish humor (my father was a Jewish humorist), I don't find this material funny. [...] 17398 27 18_Re: Jewish Mothers0_15_RONOREN@aol.com31_Tue, 26 Nov 2002 04:39:53 -0500589_iso-8859-1 <<>>

Trilby (and to others on the younger end of the Habonet spectrum), Yes, as a matter of fact I do know several women like that. Ran into one this past weekend. I used to know many more, but they were (are) almost all of a generation we are losing. This kind of generalization about Jewish Mothers was popular in the Sixties and became well-known among Jews and non-Jews alike on comedy albums such as "You Don't Have To Be Jewish", (available on CD!)which actually was a [...] 17426 139 27_A Haunting Echo/ L.A. Times11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Tue, 26 Nov 2002 05:59:50 -0600423_us-ascii Subject: Brilliant article by Shlomo Avineri, "A Haunting Echo", LA Times

Los Angeles Times November 24, 2002 A Haunting Echo All who condemn the 1930s appeasement of Hitler's Germany should reflect long and hard on whether a failure to act today against Iraq will one day be viewed the same way By Shlomo Avineri Shlomo Avineri is professor of political science at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. [...] 17566 40 18_Re: Jewish Mothers13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 26 Nov 2002 07:32:30 -0500575_us-ascii As a Jewish woman, I don't like these stereotypes at all. As a Jewish feminist, I protest what they say about the group with which I identify. But as the daughter of a woman who my Habonim friends often referred to as "the youngest living Jewish mother," I find most of these jokes (although old and stale) rather funny---my wonderful, warm, funny, driven, smart, political mother definitely has a side that is depicted in most of these jokes. And my aunt (my mom's sister-in-law) has even more of these attributes. I love my mother and my aunt dearly but they [...] 17607 23 11_unsubscribe14_Rachael Migler31_miglerk@rockvax.rockefeller.edu31_Tue, 26 Nov 2002 08:19:50 -0500434_us-ascii Dear Whomever, I love Habonim but never have a chance to read your emails and they're clogging up my computer! Please unsubscribe me. Thanks Rachael Migler



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 17631 50 18_Re: Jewish mothers11_Lon Ephraim14_cbma@erols.com31_Tue, 26 Nov 2002 23:29:33 -0500351_us-ascii

On my mother's behalf, I am very offended that she be considered one of these women. She was 10 times funnier than the Jewish mothers in the jokes, and never intentionally. Of course, much of what was so funny was the way she and my aunts and uncles skewered the English language, Polish and Yiddish being their first languages. [...] 17682 36 18_Re: Jewish mothers0_16_Aborciah@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 01:54:10 EST168_US-ASCII You're right, Shelly. Your mother was 10 times funnier than those jokes!! This is natural, sweet humor...much funnier than that which "pokes fun."

Anita 17719 29 18_Re: Jewish mothers0_18_Artbentoby@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:52:16 EST318_US-ASCII I have known women like the ones in the jokes, except for the non-cooking items. I found most of the jokes funny, and some not. It's fun to make fun of the people closest you, because you don't know enough about the people far from you. When did a stranger commit a social faux pas at your dinner table? [...] 17749 51 18_Re: Jewish mothers0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:37:57 EST269_US-ASCII Arthur You speak with wisdom Sam



In a message dated 11/27/02 6:53:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, Artbentoby@aol.com writes:

> It's fun > to make fun of the people closest you, because you don't know enough about > > the people far from you. 17801 65 19_Democracy in Israel11_Cheryl Cook16_cheryl@nifny.org31_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 11:59:47 -0500598_iso-8859-1 I thought my fellow Habo-alum would be interested in this campaign:

BE A VOICE FOR DEMOCRACY

Sign onto Voice for Democracy, a campaign of the New Israel Fund to promote the democratic values of freedom, justice, and equality for all of Israel's citizens. Both the strength of Israel's democratic character and the strength of its military in protecting its citizens are crucial to the country's long-term survival. The letter being sent to Jewish leaders worldwide supports democratic values and encourages debate about issues that are essential to Israel's security. [...] 17867 35 39_My Big Fat Greek Italian Jewish Wedding0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 12:14:08 EST530_US-ASCII I find it interesting that: 1. This subject (Jewish Mother humor) has elicited the most responses on Habonet that I have seen in a long time! 2. The success of this film ( if you haven't seen it yet -"My Big Fat Greek Wedding"- is largely due to the wonderful expression of ethnic humor- dished out so that you could substitute "Jewish" or "Italian" for it)... 3. I think that we are sensitised to "who is the source" when it comes to this kind of humor- It is OK for us to laugh at ourselves- but God forbid if the [...] 17903 38 43_Re: My Big Fat Greek Italian Jewish Wedding0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:19:03 EST161_US-ASCII Fear the people who can't take a joke, or make a joke, or laugh heartily at themselves. Dennis

PS Not all jokes are funny, but at least they try. 17942 26 30_Roman Polanski's "The Pianist"0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 15:43:24 EST559_US-ASCII First of all- Happy Thanksgiving and Chag Chanuka Sameach- Secondly, anyone who is a "professional" Jewish worker- and is interested in haveing a private screening for his/her community of this interesting and powerful film - Polanski's tribute to the Warsaw Ghetto uprising- BEFORE IT IS IN WIDE RELEASE IN YOUR CITY IN JANUARY, PLEASE EMAIL ME- We have gotten the rights from the producers/distributors to do this. It is very well done- and is based on a true story- and there is Academy Award buzz.- Thanks- sue liberman (Liberhawke@aol.com) [...] 17969 80 64_Re: My Big Fat Greek Italian Jewish Wedding - trying to be funny14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 22:46:43 +0200389_iso-8859-1 I think its time for people to stop being so durn sensitive. Heck - we're just talking about a joke, not thermo-nuclear war. And one lousy joke, whether you liked it or not, gave rise to a couple dozen letters. I'm surprised we didn't get the "everyone has a right to say what he/she wants. You can choose to listen or not to listen" stage yet (maybe it will be skipped?). [...] 18050 104 45_LA Jewish group intercepts "Electronic Jihad"11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:43:40 -0600638_us-ascii

LA Jewish Group Intercepts 'Electronic Jihad' Call 1 hour, 20 minutes ago Add Technology - Reuters Internet Report to My Yahoo!





LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - The militant Islamic group Hamas is urging followers to conduct a three-day "electronic Jihad" on Jewish Web sites, the Simon Wiesenthal Center said on Wednesday.





Rabbi Abraham Cooper, an associate dean at the Los Angeles- based Jewish organization, told Reuters that one of the center's researchers had come across two Web sites in Arabic referring to a campaign of hacking into Jewish sites starting on November 29. [...] 18155 35 34_Re: Roman Polanski's "The Pianist"0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Nov 2002 01:51:40 EST97_US-ASCII Could you please let us know what groups will be showing the film?

Ellen Ginsburg 18191 35 34_Re: Roman Polanski's "The Pianist"0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:21:36 EST364_US-ASCII hi Ellen- The film is being releaed in theaters in January and late December here in LA and NY-- it in't group- o you can go to the theater and ee it- It wa jut that we can give private howing BEFORE it is releaed in the city to pecial group if they want- We provide the theater, print of the film, peaker, etc.. (my " " in't working! ned a new keyboard!) 18227 110 37_RE: Where Would A.D. Gordon Be Today?0_24_purpleroot8@netscape.net31_Thu, 28 Nov 2002 17:58:56 -0500419_iso-8859-1 Shalom/Saalam,

In line with the piece forwarded by R. Shultz, I'd like to suggest that in making Chanuka latkes that we mix Palestinian olive oil with Jewish olive oil to symbolize reconciliation. I intend to do that for a Chanuka party. Unfortunately, there isn't as much Palestinian olive oil around as there might have been, but I intend to stretch mine to "eight days." Miracles never cease. [...] 18338 109 31_Choseness (a response to Amnon)0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:23:44 EST412_US-ASCII Dearest Amnon,

I sit on an organization board with the former chair of the religion department at Syracuse University. In a conversation several months back he offered that the ongoing plight of the Jews was in his view a consequence of Choseness. I suggested that anyone who wanted to trade positions and be the chosen of God was welcome to it. He laughed and said, "I know what you mean." [...] 18448 23 22_Re: Let's Take a Break0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:38:06 EST498_US-ASCII I'm a little surprised that the keepers of the PC did not find this funny piece demeaning of the status of the President of the United States, or perhaps a mockery of the speech inflections of an African-American.

Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ [...] 18472 37 22_Re: Let's Take a Break11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Fri, 29 Nov 2002 13:50:16 -0500413_us-ascii DLerner569@aol.com wrote:

> I'm a little surprised that the keepers of the PC did not find this funny > piece demeaning of the status of the President of the United States, or > perhaps a mockery of the speech inflections of an African-American. > > Dennis

Welcome back Dennis. This is no more surprising than the free ride that hardliners on this list get from the politeness police. [...] 18510 45 22_Re: Let's Take a Break0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Nov 2002 17:11:19 EST312_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/29/02 1:39:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, DLerner569@aol.com writes:



> or > perhaps a mockery of the speech inflections of an African-American

Explain this comment to me please, what African-Americans, or speech inflections thereof, are mentioned in this piece? 18556 28 22_Re: Let's Take a Break0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Nov 2002 20:43:13 EST386_US-ASCII Richard, Hmmm, let me see.

Does the possibility of humor here escape you. But seriously, it seems to me that Kofi and Coffee are not perfect homophones, nor is Hu and who, or most particularly, Yes Sir and Yassir. Unless given the inflection of Aunt Jemima (who incidentally resided in Syracuse). But the fact was I was just having a little fun with the PC police. [...] 18585 47 22_Re: Let's Take a Break0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Nov 2002 21:39:33 EST269_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/29/02 8:43:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, DLerner569@aol.com writes:



> Is that acceptble or are they off limits too? > Dennis >

A little paranoid there, I didn't mean to attack, was wondering what u were talking about. 18633 20 23_Re: "Od nimshechet...."0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 30 Nov 2002 14:15:12 EST493_US-ASCII Amen. Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/

MyJewishLearning.com, The Personal Gateway to Jewish Exploration Officially launches: http://MyJewishLearning.com/index.htm?source=shamash ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 18654 62 31_Choseness (a response to Amnon)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:01:02 +0200537_us-ascii Haverot/im I choose to make this my ultimate, which isn't the same as an ultimatum, on the choseness of the Jewish people. The notion is not an esoteric exercise in hermeneutics to be pondered by sophisticates. It is recited at the end of every synagogue service in the Alenu prayer. It is our duty to praise the Master of all, to exalt the Creator of the universe who has not made us like the nations of the world and has not placed us like the families of the earth; nor equated our destiny to theirs nor our lot to that [...] 18717 2528 31_Chosen People and Western Logic27_Maxene and Frank Perlmutter24_habesor@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 30 Nov 2002 22:28:53 +0200576_iso-8859-1 I don’t know if this will work but I am going to insert a photo here.

If the picture wasn’t converted into a symbol or this letter wasn’t bounced by the server what you see in the picture is the arrest of 14 illegal Palestinians who had been smuggled from one of the towns in the territories. They were looking for work. The force, which caught them was made up from the Ofakim police department and several groups of volunteers working with the border police. The Ofakim police included one police woman and among the volunteers with the border police [...] 21246 110 72_Fwd: UPDATE - SUN. DEC.1: LIVE MUSIC AT HANUKAH ISRAELI FOLK DANCE PARTY0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:00:08 EST17_US-ASCII

21357 63 35_Re: Choseness (a response to Amnon)0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 30 Nov 2002 18:20:37 EST540_US-ASCII Amnon,

Are we like the nations of the world? Are we placed like the families of the earth (whatever that means)? From the picture of the history we know, is our destiny the same as theirs? Is our lot the same as that of the multitude?

I think that, like you, I find it unlikely in the extreme that the creator of the universe chose for this to be the case, or for us to an exception to the rule of humanity. Nonetheless, it is difficult on the objective evidence to say that we have not taken unto ourselves the [...]