1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet October 2002 2 103 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel6_livney20_livney@barkai.org.il30_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:05:46 +0200505_iso-8859-1 Hi Brian, We're going to be away from Oct. 8th to Nov. 4th. Can you cancel our receipt of Habonet messages for that period? Otherwise we're going to have one hell of a backlog in our computer. Love to Nancy. -- Batsheva and Avi -------------------------------- Avi and Bat7 Livney Kibbutz Barkai D.N. Menashe 37860 Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: Brianscoop@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:31 AM Subject: Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel [...] 106 141 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel6_livney20_livney@barkai.org.il30_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:16:27 +0200711_iso-8859-1

-------------------------------- Avi and Bat7 Livney Kibbutz Barkai D.N. Menashe 37860 Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: livney To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 1:05 PM Subject: Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel



Hi Brian, We're going to be away from Oct. 8th to Nov. 4th. Can you cancel our receipt of Habonet messages for that period? Otherwise we're going to have one hell of a backlog in our computer. Love to Nancy. -- Batsheva and Avi -------------------------------- Avi and Bat7 Livney Kibbutz Barkai D.N. Menashe 37860 Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: Brianscoop@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Tuesday, October [...] 248 55 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 08:04:51 EDT435_US-ASCII Hi Batsheva and Avi! Nice to hear from you. Mazal tov on your new garnddaughter! She's lovely! Very exciting.

Regarding your subscription, as is explained in the welcome messages sent to new subscribers, you can manage this process on your own. To stop your habonet email while away, send an email message to the computer at this address: listproc@shamash.org (note, NOT to habonet@shamash.org) with this message: [...] 304 36 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 01 Oct 2002 09:09:23 -0400523_iso-8859-1 SHX2@aol.com wrote:

> Dear Habonet, > > ... > > When I read the Post article, I got pissed off about it, and I decided to > create a concert tour in Israel. A Young Judea grad, Julia Mack, matched my > enthusiam, and became my partner in the project which was eventually given > the name “Shai L’Yisrael.” > > The two principles I wanted to demonstrate were: 1. There are respected > American artists who will not be intimidated by terror, and 2. We wish to > stand with the Israeli people.... [...] 341 254 43_From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:24:13 EDT513_UTF-8 Here is an interesting article form todays NY Times. I am dismayed at the recent Habonim history revisionism that I have detected recently. I am proud to be able to write that I was at the 1969 V'ida that passed a resolution calling for Israel to recognize the rights of the Palestinians. I am also proud that Golda Meir spit at me after I invited her to address our V'ida where I was elected Mazkir. I will not write all of her comments as I do not believe that habonet should be an adult rated site. [...] 596 17 47_Re: From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:13:57 EDT406_US-ASCII 
Good stuff Brian

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
614 393 47_RE: From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 14:16:52 -0700588_utf-8 Dear Brian-

It isn't that a case can't be made such as the one in Grossman's article. Nothing here was said that was new. Nothing. No surprises, no twists. My only question, therefore, is this: Why do we need Grossman to write this for us? We have many volunteers, continually, ad nauseum. Someone wants to see our residency in that part of the world as an occupation? Let 'um. Oppression and repression? Fine. The same kinds of minds that NEVER had the capacity to accept the idea of cooperation or partnership will never change for the idea that, however imperfectly, [...]
1008 29 47_Re: From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:26:11 EDT60_US-ASCII I am wondering why this is coming as an attachment.
1038 56 24_re: Israeli/Jewish films0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com31_Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:36:09 -0400632_iso-8859-1 <> Well, I'm here at the Washington Jewish Film Festival in DC, wondering what resource you have for Jewish film in Baltimore?? <> Except for retrospective programs and rediscovered/restored classics, the larger Jewish Film Fests only show local, national, or world premieres (films produced within a year or two of the festival). Here are the basics on how to identify and get the films: peruse the program guides from Berlin, Jerusalem, Venice and [...]
1095 44 47_Re: From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:55:50 EDT245_US-ASCII > Good stuff Brian Thanks! But it was Heshi's stuff! He's just having a temporary inability to post to Habonet himself, which will be remedied shortly.





----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com
1140 44 47_Re: From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:00:23 EDT318_US-ASCII Whoa -- sorry... I like the article, and I like David Grossman, but -- as the subject line says -- I posted it for Heshi Gorewitz (I also like Heshi). And the intro paragraph about Veida in 1969 was also Heshi's. He's on Habonet and will see your replies, but can't yet post himself... soon to be fixed. [...]
1185 47 47_Re: From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:02:55 EDT194_US-ASCII Deb asks: > I am wondering why this is coming as an attachment. Sorry -- that's AOL at work. --brian





----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com
1233 45 37_itinaerary for shai l'am concert tour0_12_SHX2@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 22:44:08 EDT681_UTF-8 Itinerary for the Shai L’Israel tour: October 7th _ Mitzpe Ramon "Matnas Hall" 8:30 pm Artist: Andy Statman, Peter Himmelman, and Steve Hancoff Guest Artist: Shlomi Shaban October 8th Netanya- "Hechal Hatarbut" 8:30 pm Andy Statman, Peter Himmelman, and Steve Hancoff Guest Artist:Ariel Zilber October 9th Jerusalem – Jerusalem Theater 8:30 PM Andy Statman, Peter Himmelman, and Steve Hancoff Guest Artists: Mati Caspi And Shlomo Grunich (by invitation only) October 12th Hadera- Rina Shani Hall Andy Statman, Peter Himmelman, and Steve Hancoff Guest Artist: Ariel Zilber 13th October Arad- Oron Hall Artists: Andy Statman Steve Hancoff Guest Artist: Ofer Protugali [...]
1279 594 47_Re: From Heshi Gorewitz, on Habonim revisionism7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 02 Oct 2002 00:23:51 +0200583_UTF-8 talk about revisionism. I was at David Grossman's wedding in early 80's, which means he was a little boy in 1967 and during the seventies. He could not possibly physically remember what was in those days. People who were actual witnesses to history in those days will not recognize his warped description. It is a question of the egg and chicken I think. What came first? I remember quite well travelling unarmed the length and breadth of Judea and Samaria and even in the Gaza Strip , wondering why we never saw any soldiers. Children walked alone through Arab villages, [...]
1874 38 33_shai l'yisrael concerts in Israel12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:22:26 +0200145_us-ascii Steve To you and to all who have a hand in the shai l'yisrael project - may your hands be strengthened T'hezakna Yediechem.

Amnon
1913 228 12_Haaretz OpEd0_14_HESHIG@aol.com28_Wed, 2 Oct 2002 06:25:06 EDT552_ISO-8859-1 

Here is some more waste of cyber paper. It always strikes me as strange when people have to qualify how much of a Zionist they are, how committed they are to Israel. I take it as a given that anyone who reads this stuff, and is interested enough to subscribe to this list, is committed (or should be). What struck me as revisionist is this disregard for human life, a total lack of the importance to strive to achieve Justice. I do not remember Habonim teaching me that one human life, if Jewish, is more valuable than another. [...]
2142 40 17_telemarket terror16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:40:48 -0400445_us-ascii >From the WSJ Best of the Web. Life imitates the Onion.

The Branch County, Mich., sheriff's department has issued a warning about possible telemarketing fraud, the Battle Creek Enquirer reports:

In a four-paragraph release sent to area news organizations Tuesday, the sheriff department reported the investigation of several complaints of possible telemarketing fraud in the area, especially targeted at the elderly. [...]
2183 3560 29_Ariel Baum after 55 miles....13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Wed, 2 Oct 2002 19:07:54 +0200322_windows-1255 After some hesitation, I've decided to play the "Jewish Father" and kvell. Many of my old friends in the States have never seen my son Ariel, so here are some snapshots of him, my parents and myself after Ariel's unit completed his 90-kilometer "beret march". Isn't he cute?

Jon






5744 100 71_=?windows-1255?B?4fLw6envOiBBcmllbCBCYXVtIGFmdGVyIDU1IG1pbGVzLi4uLg==?=12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 02 Oct 2002 21:34:39 +0200317_windows-1255 To Jonathan Baum,

After saying Mazal Tov for your son, please do not send such heavy files through again - it took forever to download. I could also send pictures of my son who finished his masa kumta last month - but I don't think everyone on Habonet wants to clog up their email with them. [...]
5845 32 70_Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1=F2=F0=E9=E9=EF?=: Ariel Baum after 55 miles....11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 02 Oct 2002 14:39:43 -0400418_iso-8859-1 



Doug Greener wrote:

> <

Trudy,

Your messages come through as attachments which aren't even immediately obvious - I get a trio of odd characters as above as the only message content unless I go through some contortions. Can you try to send them as plain text?

I for one was glad to see Jon's picture(s), but I'm blessed with a highspeed connection at work. [...]
5878 63 31_sorry if the message is garbled12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 02 Oct 2002 22:17:32 +0200429_windows-1255 I'm sorry if my message came through scrambled to some people. I don't know why it happens. My husband thinks it sometimes happens when I hit "reply" instead of doing a new message...(which I'm doing now).

Anyone else have this problem?

Trudy

and I got "rejected" by the listserve because I started a messae to Steve Hancoff with, "I add. . . ". It thought I was trying to subscribe!! Computers!
5942 31 28_David Grossman's skewed view11_Norman kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Wed, 02 Oct 2002 14:41:56 -0700515_- Perhaps it ws just a bad translation but David Grossman's characterization of Ehud Barak's peace proposals at Camp David as ultimatums is a gross misuse of the word.

An ultimatum implies a threat of force,"do what I tell you or I will punish you". The actual ultimatum was issued by Arafat as in "give me more or I will unleash suicide bombers". What was Barak's threat? to go home? to face certain electoral defeat? to give Arafat Ariel Sharon? I think Mr Grossman needs to reexamine his assertions. [...]
5974 24 12_(no subject)0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Wed, 2 Oct 2002 22:39:40 EDT613_US-ASCII Toughtful and interesting comment.

Sam F.



Perhaps it ws just a bad translation but David Grossman's characterization of Ehud Barak's peace proposals at Camp David as ultimatums is a gross misuse of the word

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
5999 28 9_Bluegrass0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:02:24 EDT742_US-ASCII This just in from the bluegrass listserve

_____________________________________ Yes, Daniel Pearl was a Bluegrass musician who was well know in the Washington Bluegrass scene. Lew

___________________________________________

This was posted by Sam Flesher Short Bald Old Sick Jewish Songwriter (Just the songwriter is sick not the songs)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
6028 36 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:31:34 EDT396_US-ASCII To Sam , Judy, AMnon, and other Habonetters,

There was, when Ken Bob and I were working at the Academic Council for Kibbutz Studies (shared an office with Habonim) in 1984, we worked with a guy named Blasi from Harvard. He was a colleague of Carol Gilligan's and believed that one of the best showcases for the Kohlberg stages of moral development was the kibbutz in Israel. [...]
6065 96 37_For Susie Liberman: two movie reviews11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:28:46 -0500636_ISO-8859-1 

> >Navigating Rough Seas of Coexistence >By DAVE KEHR > > >Borders and barriers, both physical and emotional, are the subject of two hourlong documentaries that open today as a double bill at the Anthology Film Archives in the East Village. > >"Area K: A Political Fishing Documentary" examines the separate peace that reigned for a decade between Israeli authorities and Palestinian fisherman in a section of the Mediterranean off the Gaza Strip. > >Fishermen from the Shati refugee camp formed a partnership with Israelis living in the Dugit settlement on the northern edge of the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians [...]
6162 202 96_FW: ACTION: Write to Britain PM & Dept. of Trade & Industry and askto ease the embargo on Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 06:32:24 -0700334_us-ascii ACTION: Write to Britain PM & Dept. of Trade & Industry and ask to ease the embargo on Israel -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 7:10 PM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: ACTION: Write to Britain PM & Dept. of Trade & Industry and askto ease the embargo on Israel [...]
6365 71 36_past continuous if I forget thee not12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:33:31 +0200555_us-ascii Haverim/ot When you're sixteen and say I love you forever it is at least till the end of the summer. When you come on workshop and declare "may my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth" it covers your undergraduate years - minimally. But by the time you become ambidextrous and the cunning of your left hand has caught up with the right you begin to avoid the imperative prefer the relative and hear yourself saying on the one hand... but on the other. And you know what? It's legitimate. Another thing that is legit is to overlook dreadful [...]
6437 75 41_Heshi Gorowitz, Habonim revisionism, etc.16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:36:32 -0400572_us-ascii In Habonet 2370, either Heshi Gorowitz or Brian Cooper (it's unclear who actually wrote the note accompanying the David Grossman article) wrote

> Here is an interesting article form todays NY Times. I am dismayed at the recent Habonim history revisionism that I have detected > recently. I am proud to be able to write that I was at the 1969 V'ida that passed a resolution calling for Israel to recognize the rights of the > Palestinians. I am also proud that Golda Meir spit at me after I invited her to address our V'ida where I was elected Mazkir. [...]
6513 106 40_Re: past continuous if I forget thee not11_Don Goelman25_don.goelman@villanova.edu31_Thu, 03 Oct 2002 10:47:12 -0400461_us-ascii Let's add to Amnon's list the Supreme Court building, in the same general neighborhood. The beautiful structure is based on the motif of circles, a pun, according to the architect, on "ma'aglei tzedek" in Psalm 23. Its president Aharon Barak (no relation) is a true hero of our times, a supporter of judicial review in Israel and religious diversity (to the point of needing round-the-clock guards after being vilified by some Orthodox fanatics). [...]
6620 58 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 10:53:10 EDT382_US-ASCII To all

There you go guys. Blasi is another one of the Moral development guys who is really good. I studied him too. I think he is absolute right about the kibbutz. I think if he studied Habonim he would find the same thing. The question of moral development how to measure it and how to promote it is increasingly becoming an well respected area of psychology. [...]
6679 22 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_13_JLCAA@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:54:00 EDT293_US-ASCII Aliya - The guy from Harvard was Joe Blasi -- a colleague from long ago and a galaxy far away. I believe Joe is at Rutgers now if anyone wants to contact him. The last I heard, Joe was consulting with unions and workers in Russia trying to buy the factories where they work. Avi [...]
6702 53 34_FWD: shai l'israel concert queries11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:02:34 -0500425_us-ascii ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Lerner  Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 19:57:06 +0200

Rozzie, People here are really interested. Do you know how or who they can contact for more info? I'm also forwarding a message that went out on out israelfolkcommunity list. Maybe you can post it on Habonet and someone'll get in touch with Eliana? thanks, Janet [...]
6756 40 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:18:40 EDT195_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/3/2002 11:54:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JLCAA@aol.com writes:



> The guy from Harvard was Joe Blasi

Avi is correct - he moved from his Kibbut
6797 47 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 13:20:03 EDT329_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/3/2002 11:54:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JLCAA@aol.com writes:



> The guy from Harvard was Joe Blasi

Sorry about my previous misfire. Avi is correct. Joseph moved from his kibbutz focus to employee owned businesses and has become somewhat of an expert in this area.

Ken
6845 49 20_Voices of Eden query11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:49:21 -0500431_us-ascii Rozzie, People here are really interested. Do you know how or who they can contact for more info? I'm also forwarding a message that went out on out israelfolkcommunity list. Maybe you can post it on Habonet and someone'll get in touch with Eliana? thanks, Janet

------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 21:03:40 +0200 From: "Eliana Gilad"  Subject: Shai L'Israel [...]
6895 497 90_FW: action: Reader Alerts - the creation of the State of Israel a"mistake" Honestreporting11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:22:24 -0700431_us-ascii action: Reader Alerts - the creation of the State of Israel a "mistake" Honestreporting -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 8:51 AM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: action: Reader Alerts - the creation of the State of Israel a"mistake" Honestreporting





Source: HonestReporting Communique 02 October 2002

"READER ALERTS"

* * * [...]
7393 75 45_Re: Heshi Gorowitz, Habonim revisionism, etc.11_Norman kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:10:03 -0700446_- I am curious about one thing in Heshi Gorowitz statement. Why would anyone be proud that the Prime Minister of Israel spat on them?

In retroapect don't you think the confrontation could have been handled better to acheive a more psitive result for the movement? Gaining the emnity of the leader of the Labor Party does not seem like a very good idea. Nor does it open any doors to get your opinions or ideas heard by policy makers. [...]
7469 41 22_Re: the spittin' image11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:44:14 -0400502_us-ascii Norman kane wrote:

> I am curious about one thing in Heshi Gorowitz statement. Why would anyone be > proud that the Prime Minister of Israel spat on them? > > In retroapect don't you think the confrontation could have been handled better > to acheive a more psitive result for the movement? Gaining the emnity of the > leader of the Labor Party does not seem like a very good idea. Nor does it > open any doors to get your opinions or ideas heard by policy makers. > > Norm Kane > [...]
7511 47 22_Re: the spittin' image0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:30:29 EDT327_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/3/02 3:45:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes:



> I'd > be happy to have George W. Bush spit on me in exchange > for the opportunity to give him a piece of my mind. >

And he could use any piece of mind, having such a small one, or barely used one himself.
7559 16 22_Re: the spittin' image0_14_HESHIG@aol.com31_Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:46:44 -0400429_iso-8859-1 Actually, I approached Ms Meir with all of the politeness and respect I could muster. I was at a meeting (with Ken Bob) in Jerusalem and heard that she was coming to the States and would be addressing the Pioneer Women's convention. Her response took me completly by surprise. A terse NO would have served it's purpose. I didn't even have time to open my umbrella. Maybe she thought I was a Sephardic Palestinian [...]
7576 45 22_Re: the spittin' image11_Norman kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:06:47 -0700563_- Thanks for clearing that up. From the first remarks and Elihu's note it sounded like you provoked the incident. I am glad this was not the case and it is indeed unfortunate that she handled the matter in an immature manner.

Norm

On Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:46:44 -0400 HESHIG@aol.com wrote:

> Actually, I approached Ms Meir with all of the > politeness and respect I could muster. I was > at a meeting (with Ken Bob) in Jerusalem and > heard that she was coming to the States and > would be addressing the Pioneer Women's > convention. Her [...]
7622 58 22_Re: the spittin' image0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Oct 2002 23:18:32 EDT497_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/3/02 4:50:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HESHIG@aol.com writes:



> . I was at a meeting (with Ken Bob) in Jerusalem

I remember the Jerusalem conference Heshi refers to. I believe it was after the Zionism is Racism resolution in the U.N. and Heshi was probably there representing Zionist youth as mazkir Habonim and as a newly retired mazkir, North American Jewish Student Network asked me to go to represent non-Zioinst youth (just kidding). [...]
7681 218 47_FW: Public Follow up of the Peacecamp in Tamera4_Meir21_meir_h@maccabi.org.il30_Fri, 4 Oct 2002 08:34:10 +0200337_iso-8859-1 I don't know how many of you have heard of Tamera - a very forward community in Portugal, a sister to Zegg in Germany. They had a Peace and a love workshop in August and this is there report. I'm passing it on to you.

Meir

______________________________ Please visit my "Temple of Love" http://tolsite.org/ [...]
7900 81 46_NYTimes.com Article: New Jersey's Poet Dilemma0_15_debalev@aol.com36_Fri, 4 Oct 2002 01:56:27 -0400 (EDT)411_- This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by debalev@aol.com.





New Jersey's Poet Dilemma

October 4, 2002









You can't help wondering what the New Jersey committee that picked Amiri Baraka as state poet laureate was thinking. That he would dedicate himself to describing sunrises over Cape May? Offering tributes to state leaders? [...]
7982 67 75_Re: =?windows-1255?B?4fLw6envOiBBcmllbCBCYXVtIGFmdGVyIDU1IG1pbGVzLi4uLg==?=21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy16_tsippi@attbi.com31_Fri, 04 Oct 2002 00:43:47 -0700504_iso-8859-1 Dear Trudy and Jon,

In addition to being long and strenuous, what is the significance of the masa kumtot?

Regards,

Tsippi

At 12:34 PM 10/2/02, you wrote: > >To Jonathan Baum, > >After saying Mazal Tov for your son, please do not send such heavy files >through again - it took forever to download. I could also send pictures >of my son who finished his masa kumta last month - but I don't think >everyone on Habonet wants to clog up their email with them. > >Trudy
8050 71 11_mash kumtah13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Fri, 4 Oct 2002 19:26:20 +0200415_ISO-8859-1 Hi Tsippi. All combat soldiers in the IDF undergo the masah kumtah forced march at varying stages of their training, depending on their corps or unit. Until the masah, they wear an olive-green beret which identifies them as a boot or "youngster". The maasah is a kind of acceptance ritual, since the kids are not considered full-fledged members of their units until they "earn" that colored beanie. [...]
8122 57 62_Re: Israeli Supreme Court Building (was past continuous......)0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:32:13 EDT579_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/3/2002 10:48:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, don.goelman@villanova.edu writes:



> Let's add to Amnon's list the Supreme Court building, in the same general > neighborhood.

I just want to highlight Don's comment here. For those of you who live in Israel, have lived in Israel, or travel there often and feel like you have seen "everything," this is really a great visit. We were there last summer and, since in any case, the Supreme Court of Israel is the protector of Israeli democracy, it now has a home to befit that role. [...]
8180 62 69_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBUaGUgQWdub3N0aWMgQWV0aGVpc3QtIHRvIEFtbm9u?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 04 Oct 2002 23:28:40 +0200422_iso-8859-1 Dear Aliya,

What does the following study case suppose to prove? Being a Good Samaritan is not always the best solution? Or, if you've got a dirty room it's better to clean it up rather than change rooms.

Shalom Rav, Mollie Marx ----- Original Message ----- From:  To:  Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:31 AM Subject: Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon [...]
8243 184 16_Masa Kumta again12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 05 Oct 2002 21:21:11 +0200587_iso-8859-1 Hi Tzippi,

In addition to Jon's explanation, the rigorous trek is also meant to help the "gibush," or connectedness of the unit - getting them to work together, help those who are weaker and fall behind, form a comeraderie which will be needed as they serve together. Those who can't make the whole trek join at points closer to the finish line, so that they can participate in the experience of finishing together. Parents used to be allowed to meet the soldiers at the finishing line, but there were a lot of complaints about how miserable, tired and pushed the [...]
8428 60 20_Re: Masa Kumta again0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Sat, 5 Oct 2002 17:26:43 EDT367_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/5/02 5:11:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ddwgreen@netvision.net.il writes:



> "gibush," > >

Gibbush means crystalization. I just want that to be crystal clear to all. No pun intended

Sam Flesher Crystal Ball Reader Whose Bald Head Looks Like Crystal Ball Pittsburgh

P.S. I am going to look for my beret.
8489 30 15_Rehovot Kumsitz17_Yehudah Alexander21_yaya@math.iibr.gov.il36_Sun, 6 Oct 2002 08:28:09 +0300 (IDT)448_US-ASCII Shira ba'she'fela:

This Thursday, October 10, starting at 8:00 PM - we are having a kumsitz at our home --- Rehovot, Rehov Moskovitz 16 /Apt 4/

All are warmly invited - and don't forget to bring guitars, banjos, ...

Steve Hancoff, along with his guitar, will also be there, between his series of "Shai L'Yisrael" concerts. (Details about his performances appear on earlier postings, also at www.stevehancoff.com) [...]
8520 519 23_Fw: Children Under Fire7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 05 Oct 2002 23:19:16 +0200710_windows-1255 interesting material, unfortunately.

----- Original Message ----- From: Honest Reporting 

Subject: Children Under Fire



> Media patrollers are hot on the trail of NPR, currently presenting a > 7-part series on the roots of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. > Transcripts and audio clips are online at: > http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/index.html > > HonestReporting readers are urged to focus on any one point that you feel > is biased, and write a letter to NPR President Kevin Klose at: > kklose@npr.org. > > =================== > > HonestReporting Communique > 04 October 2002 > > "CHILDREN UNDER FIRE" > > * * * > [...]
9040 96 20_Re: Masa Kumta again21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy16_tsippi@attbi.com31_Sun, 06 Oct 2002 00:40:56 -0700604_iso-8859-1 Thanks, Trudy, for the details. And congrats to you and the Baums on sons' completion! Mazal Tov!

Tsippi

At 12:21 PM 10/5/02, you wrote: > >Hi Tzippi, > >In addition to Jon's explanation, the rigorous trek is also meant to help >the "gibush," or connectedness of the unit - getting them to work >together, help those who are weaker and fall behind, form a comeraderie >which will be needed as they serve together. Those who can't make the >whole trek join at points closer to the finish line, so that they can >participate in the experience of finishing together. Parents [...]
9137 108 20_Re: Masa Kumta again4_sima19_simagr@telhai.ac.il30_Sun, 6 Oct 2002 11:58:40 +0200447_ISO-8859-1 I for one was very glad they stopped the ritual of having parents meet the kids at the end of the Masa - Yaniv's blisters and bruises a few days later were more than enough for us. It did however, give the kids a real boost of self-confidence, giboosh and pride in their unit. Will they ever need to do a trek like that again? I sure hope not - for that matter I sure hope they never have to use any of their army training - ever. -Sima
9246 38 27_Back to the "Bead" thing...11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net30_Sun, 6 Oct 2002 01:03:49 -0700425_iso-8859-1 I finally did it and in mid-July I became the owner of "Beads of Marin:" I have completed the redesign of the store and have brought in many, many (and a few more many) new beads. The store is a very unique store and has a very strong artsy feel to it. I hope to be able to take the feel and actually make the place an art center for bead artists, though mostly local, also global. And so, I turn to Habonet. [...]
9285 44 35_kumsitz, Thurs. ride from Jerusalem7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 06 Oct 2002 08:00:05 +0200283_windows-1255 Please call me if you live in Jerusalem and are going to the kumsitz. Perhaps we can all go together in one car, instead of everyone trying to find his way there alone. my phone number is 586-5552. please leave a message with phone number if I am not in my office. pearl
9330 250 16_from CBSNews.com13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sun, 6 Oct 2002 19:56:35 +0200430_windows-1255 Israel: Terror Linked To Iran , Iraq Sept. 29, 2002



Israeli intelligence officials tell Lesley Stahl they can now prove that Iraq and Iran are secretly financing and directing acts of terrorism against Israel.

The proof, they say, was found in files confiscated during raids earlier this year on the headquarters of Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat and gleaned from prisoner interrogations. [...]
9581 30 20_Re: from CBSNews.com0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sun, 6 Oct 2002 15:41:11 EDT97_US-ASCII This was all on 60 Minutes last week, but i guess you Israeli folks dont get 60 Minutes.
9612 19 19_Children Under Fire12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 07 Oct 2002 09:23:57 +0200593_us-ascii The Honest Reporting Communique of Oct 4 in Habonet runs to 11 pages, with 516 lines, and over 4,000 words. This equals the length of a chapter in many books. I believe that whatever the believer who sent it believes, it calls for an effort of pruning. See the Britannica's take on the legend of Tiamat below: "In the Old Testament there are several allusions to a primordial combat between God and a monstrous adversary variously named Leviathan or Rahab. Although the references to Leviathan usually indicate a dragon-like creature, the name has also been used to denote a sea [...]
9632 796 23_Children Under Fire (2)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:11:46 +0200449_iso-8859-1 

Haverim/ot I bet some have guessed by now that Im writing a book on modern Hebrew literature. The book, Heroic Transition, asks whether Israeli lit is Jewish. The short answer is you betcha.  The longer one will be book-size. But for those who just cant sustain the curiosity here is the prologue. Following on my earlier communication today about drawn-out postings I should mention that it has 7 pages and 3,300 words. [...]
10429 1203 69_Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian | A new exodus for the Middle East?16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:03:54 -040073_us-ascii 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,803338,00.html
11633 28 73_Re: Guardian Unlimited | The Guardian | A new exodus for the Middle East?11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:19:52 -0500744_us-ascii For those who would lke to read the article in Hebrew, here is the Haaretz Hebrew URL. Rozzie



---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Elihu D. Davison"  Reply-To: habonet@shamash.org Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:03:54 -0400

> >http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,803338,00.html > >

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
11662 48 18_kiso, koso, ka'aso7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:56:20 +0200234_windows-1255 In the Talmud it is written that a man's character is known by "kiso, koso, v'ka'aso," i.e., ( the depths of ) "his pocket," "his cup" (what and how much he drinks), and "his anger."

V'hamaveen yaveen.

pearl
11711 29 31_Re: Back to the "Bead" thing...0_15_Emabear@aol.com28_Mon, 7 Oct 2002 14:39:42 EDT78_US-ASCII Does Beads of Marin mean that you are in Marin Cty? Good luck to you.
11741 179 31_RE: Back to the "Bead" thing...11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net30_Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:22:52 -0700391_us-ascii Hi, Marin City is a neighborhood in Marin County, and as different from the average Marin town as can be. My store is actually in Mill Valley.

-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Emabear@aol.com Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 11:40 AM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: Back to the "Bead" thing... [...]
11921 163 30_Boston Globe Online: Print it!16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Tue, 08 Oct 2002 14:39:03 -0400141_us-ascii >From the October 5th Boston Globe.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/278/oped/Why_Israel_and_not_Sudan_is_singled_outP.shtml
12085 16 22_Re: Israeli Literature9_Naomi Jay21_naomi_jay@hotmail.com31_Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:50:42 -0700
12102 196 32_"I Went"-Sequel to "I'm Going"--0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:39:44 EDT410_UTF-8 Some of those intangible genes got transferred to our second generation- susie



I Went….. (Sequel to "I'm Going…")

by Avi Liberman

"Now I feel better," I remember my Dad telling me after he had bumped into someone in the streets he hadn't seen in 20 years . We were in Israel at the time celebrating my Bar Mitzvah. "In Israel you always bump into someone you know." [...]
12299 161 43_FW: to post on Habonet and other listserves10_Josh Cohen22_mazkir@habonimdror.org30_Tue, 8 Oct 2002 17:58:29 -0400701_us-ascii 

-----Original Message----- From: LabZionA@aol.com [mailto:LabZionA@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 5:22 PM To: mazkir@habonimdror.org Subject: to post on Habonet and other listserves



** FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE **

THE LABOR ZIONIST ALLIANCE CALLS ON THE ISRAEL LABOR PARTY TO LEAVE THE GOVERNMENT IF SETTLEMENT ACTIVITY CONTINUES

At its 33rd National Convention, October 4-7th, 2002, the Labor Zionist Alliance endorsed a resolution calling for the Israel Labor Party to withdraw from the unity government if Prime Minister Sharon persists in establishing and expanding settlements in the territories. The text of the resolution is as follows: [...]
12461 488 61_FW: Saudi financing of Terrorism to stop the peace initiative11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:38:44 -0700731_iso-8859-1 

-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 8:31 PM To: Elly Krapek; David Remis; Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; Dan Sline; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: Fw: Saudi financing of Terrorism to stop the peace initiative







Subject: Saudi financing of Terrorism to stop the peace initiative

John Loftus, a former federal prosecutor and author of several books, including The Secret War Against the Jews (a documented incredible must-read that they tried to ban in several countries and the US, by the way), is currently president of the Florida Holocaust Museum. He has instituted a lawsuit that he claims will [...]
12950 430 34_FW: Boston Globe Online: Print it!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Tue, 8 Oct 2002 15:51:35 -0700134_- >From the October 5th Boston Globe.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/278/oped/Why_Israel_and_not_Sudan_is_singled_outP.shtml
13381 116 72_Suicide Bomber's Father: Let Hamas and Jihad Leaders Send Their Own Sons0_14_HESHIG@aol.com28_Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:42:07 EDT611_US-ASCII 

From Al Hayat, 1.10.2002 - Translation: MEMRI



Suicide Bomber's Father: Let Hamas and Jihad Leaders Send Their Own Sons

Posted: October 07, 2002 --> In a letter to the editor of the London Arabic-language daily Al-Hayat,(1) Abu Saber M. G., the father of a young Palestinian who carried out a suicide bombing in an Israeli city,wrote: "I can find no better words with which to begin my letter than the words of Allah, in his precious book [the Koran]: 'Act for the sake of Allah, and do not throw yourselves to destruction with your own hands.'(2) I write this letter [...]
13498 40 11_phraseology16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:28:09 -0400326_us-ascii Bruce Arbit passed on to me the following catch-phrases to be printed on buttons to be distributed to all Habonim alums. Maybe we should have a contest for the best button phrase. The winner will get a week at the camp of his/her choice, balancing the books with help from out-of-work Arthur Andersen employees. [...]
13539 42 12_RE: to steve11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:36:48 -0700728_us-ascii Sam

Thanks! I will check this book out.

Keep up your good works.

Steve

-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 4:27 PM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: to steve



Steve --- check out "the mismeasure of man" by S.J. Gould and you may discovered why Jews were kept out of the US from 1920 to 1945. Jewish immigrants during the first world war tested as mentally retarded on the Army Intelligence test because among other things they could not name famous pitchers in the American League. How silly. Conclusion of the psychology profession --- Einstein [...]
13582 58 71_JPost article/ Musicians bring a rare 'gift' to Israelis/ Steve Hancoff11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:34:39 -0500590_us-ascii Musicians bring a rare 'Gift' to Israelis



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- JENNY HAZAN Oct. 10, 2002

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When Washington-based acoustic guitarist and Artistic Ambassador for the US State Department Steve Hancoff read on the front page of The Washington Post on July 30 that musicians the world over were cancelling appearances here due to security concerns of a disagreement with Israeli policies, he was moved to action. [...]
13641 131 53_FW: 30 second action and shop Israel in LA on Oct. 1311_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:14:45 -0700425_iso-8859-1 30 second action and shop Israel in LA on Oct. 13 -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 11:09 PM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: 30 second action and shop Israel in LA on Oct. 13



========================= ACTION ==========================

ABOUT:

1. Shop Israel - in Los Angeles...

2. A letter to Italy 30 second petition [...]
13773 60 11_the kumsitz7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 11 Oct 2002 02:07:31 +0200615_windows-1255 1:40 A.M. and just returned to the settlement (Jerusalem) from the kumsitz in Rechovot at Shayna and Gene Alexander's new home. People came from as far away as Carmiel (Adele Perlov), Nahariya (Paula Nissenson), Haifa (Sarah Harris) to Kfar Saba (Hadar and Dina Matmon), to Urim (two cars: D.Holzer, D.Chaitin, Betsy Rochester, and a host of others), Helen Frenkley, and the rest of us inbetween. A houseful. We shmoozed, ate, and finally Steve Hancoff and Davie Chaitin (banjo) sat down and played. We sang songs I haven't heard in more than half a lifetime and it was freilich. Shayna's dentist [...]
13834 66 18_Israeli Literature12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:35:49 +0200571_us-ascii Naomi, you asked > I am curious Amnon, if Israeli literature is Jewish, how do you/will you account for Israeli Arab literature in your book? Or perhaps your book is a book of Hebrew literature? >

I have tussled with your question for quite a while. Because of my ideological position that Israel is the land of its citizens both Jewish and Arab I was inclined to be inclusive. But there is the problem of focus. The book's title is Heroic Transition and deals with the transformation of Judaic culture in Israel. At one time I thought of calling it [...]
13901 24 22_Israeli Literature (2)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:48:11 +0200344_us-ascii Naomi, Also, Beckett's Waiting for Godot was presented at the Haifa Theater in Arabic (1984, translated by Anton Shamas, directed by Ilan Ronen) as happening on an abandoned building site, with Gogo and Didi as Palestinian construction workers speaking in Arabic, and Pozzo as their Israeli employer who addressed them in Hebrew. [...]
13926 54 37_Post NAZISM: an open letter to Elihu.0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:55:00 EDT543_US-ASCII Dear Elihu

Thank you so much for forwarding me Ron Ronsenblum's iconoclastic article on "Idoicies" Even though it is very long, I could not put it down. I forwarded a copy to my sister Ruth and to my good friend Jon in China. I might have accidently sent it to others because it was near midnight when I was finished dealing with it. I went to sleep dreaming about the article and woke up thinking about it. Since it is very long and your find, I will not post it here, but I consider it must reading for everyone. Anyway [...]
13981 30 34_Campuses Make Antisemitism Topic A11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 12 Oct 2002 08:59:49 -0400635_us-ascii To the editors of the Washington Post,

The statements in "Campuses Make Israel Topic A" (A1, October 12, 2002) would be funny if the subject were not so serious. Edward Said claims that assertions that the spreading Israel divestiture movement is anti-Semitic are nonsense and talks of 35 years of Israeli occupation. As a historian Mr. Said is surely aware that the territory was taken from it's former occupiers, the Jordanians and Egyptians, and that calling it Palestinian territory is inaccurate. The only basis for calling the territory Palestinian is the Oslo Accords, which begin with the premise that the [...]
14012 76 11_Peace prize11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Sat, 12 Oct 2002 14:58:59 -0500452_us-ascii Subject: Peace prize

Media News

The announcement from the Nobel Peace Prize Committee on October 11, 2002 that Jimmy Carter would receive this year's 2002 Nobel Peace Prize may be received with enthusiasm by Yassir Arafat's Palestinian Authority.

Carter was the US observer and facilitator of the January 1996 elections that catapulted Arafat to be the "democratically elected" leader of the Palestinian Arab people. [...]
14089 24 33_Tikkun & Zionism's Bad Conscience9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:08:58 -0700424_us-ascii I was just wondering if anyone else saw this essay in the Sept/Oct issue of Tikkun by Joel Kovel. Does anyone know anything about this fool. His essay indicates to me a near complete ignorance of the current state of affairs within the Zionist movement. It also indicates that we should run not walk away from Tikkun and Lerner no matter how high minded his ideals pretend to be. I was appalled by this essay. [...]
14114 55 37_Re: Tikkun & Zionism's Bad Conscience12_Rita Katcher23_rkatchersusse@yahoo.com37_Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:35:02 -0700 (PDT)561_us-ascii What essay? Can you provide a link?

Rita Katcher-Susse



--- Norm Kane  wrote: > I was just wondering if anyone else saw this essay > in the Sept/Oct issue > of Tikkun by Joel Kovel. Does anyone know anything > about this fool. > His essay indicates to me a near complete ignorance > of the current state > of affairs within the Zionist movement. It also > indicates that we > should run not walk away from Tikkun and Lerner no > matter how high > minded his ideals pretend to be. I was appalled by > this [...]
14170 59 37_Re: Tikkun & Zionism's Bad Conscience9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Sun, 13 Oct 2002 16:18:08 -0700533_us-ascii Its at www.tikkun.org and that is the name of the essay - Zionism's Bad Conscience

Rita Katcher wrote:

> What essay? Can you provide a link? > > Rita Katcher-Susse > > --- Norm Kane  wrote: > > I was just wondering if anyone else saw this essay > > in the Sept/Oct issue > > of Tikkun by Joel Kovel. Does anyone know anything > > about this fool. > > His essay indicates to me a near complete ignorance > > of the current state > > of affairs within the Zionist movement. It also > > [...]
14230 825 24_Zionism's Bad Conscience16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 07:08:11 -0400150_us-ascii This is the article to which Norm Kane referred.

http://tikkun.org/magazine/index.cfm/action/tikkun/issue/tik0209/article/020911b.html
15056 79 13_Harriet Cohen9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com31_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:23:23 -0400580_iso-8859-1 It is with great sorrow that we have to announce that Harriet Cohen, beloved wife of Ben, mother of David, Elon and Ami, mother in law of Leah, grandmother of Daniel, Joshua, Debbie, Coral and Mirell and Brother of Elliott Zichlinsky, passed away this morning at 7:00 AM. The funeral will beheld tomorrow afternoon, Tuesday, October 15, at Riverside Chapel on Amsterdam Avenue in Manhattan at 1:00 PM. The family will be sitting shiva at our home at 196 E. 75th St. Apt. 8A, New York, 10021. Contributions may be made in her honor to the Habonim Foundation at 114 [...]
15136 79 28_Re: Zionism's Bad Conscience0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:30:55 EDT630_US-ASCII 

Name: Sam Flesher City: Pittsburgh State or Country: PA Email Address: smfgrappa Daytime Phone: 412 422 2847 Article Title, Issue: Tikkun Sept/Oct 2002

Letter to the Editor: Joel Kovel's ill informed anti Zionist tirade in the last issue is a scandal. He goes on and on about "Faustian bargains with imperialism" without once turning the mirror on himself as a privileged American whose prosperity is built on the suffering of African Americans, Native Americans and poor people in the third world. Of course he may pay some lip service to these ideas, but it involves no action. Action would include [...]
15216 51 8_From Sam0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:47:44 EDT565_US-ASCII Dear Joel Hi it's me Sam. You know me, don't you? It is time that you right wingers open yourself to debate. I propose a new periodical called "Tigun" to replace "Tikun" You know what tigun is don't you. Tigun is what Jews do on Chanukah to celebrate freedom. Oh Freedom. What a wonderful thought. If only the right wing oppressors of the poor like you cherished freedom. Why did you make a Faustian bargain with imperialism and capitalism? You look awfully well fed. Nice tie man. Would you like to debate someone from the left who opposes your anti [...]
15268 28 14_Bad Conscience11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:30:34 -0700440_iso-8859-1 



re: Joel Kovel-Historian and Humanitarian Extrordinaire

Please allow me to add my own small voice to those that are once again saddened to see one more installment of the increasingly popular word game: "Blame the Victims", now on your local channels all over the world.

To people like Joel Kovel, who are able to play so hard and fast with history's "facts", may you only live and sleep well. [...]
15297 66 28_Re: Zionism's Bad Conscience13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 18:40:26 +0200533_iso-8859-1 This clown is, of course entitled to his opinions, but it's been a while since I've read so many historical untruths in a single article. I never really understood the idea that we Jews were supposed to "be better" than others. Smarter, maybe, but better?

I sincerely urge that any one out there who has a subscription to Tikkun will cancel it forthwith. There are plenty of Arab publications which will carry such sentiments. Why does a Jewish and supposedly pro-Israel magazine have to publish such rubbish? [...]
15364 27 17_Harriet Cohen z"l0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:16:19 EDT424_US-ASCII Chevre, Shalom

It is with great shock and sadness that I learned this morning of the passing of Harriet Cohen, Zichronah L'vracha, wife of Ben Cohen and grandmother of Mazkir T'nuah and Rosh Galil '02 Josh Cohen and his brother and sister, Galil stalwarts Dan & Debbie Cohen.

Funeral services will be at 1 PM tomorrow, October 15th, from Riverside Memorial Chapel, 180 W. 76th Street, Manhattan. [...]
15392 57 18_Re: Bad Conscience0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 13:31:50 EDT515_US-ASCII 

> Joel Kovel is a very very very very very very great man. Steve Klein should > not be belittling a man of such stature on a Monday. At least wait till > Mitwoch to slam that Litvok. > > Sam Flesher > Editor in Chief > Tigun Magazine Also Copycat & Scardy Cat Chief Secondary Assistant to the Former Publisher of> > Tigun Magazine the Bi Millenial Publicationan & the Periodical for the > Small Fry. > (The edition for the first half of the third milenium is due out sooner > than you think ) [...]
15450 41 28_Re: Zionism's Bad Conscience0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:07:27 EDT295_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/14/02 12:41:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jonbaum@sasa.org.il writes:



> I never really understood the idea that we Jews were supposed to "be better" > than others. Smarter, maybe, but better?

Smarter? Do you ever read what is put on this list?
15492 38 24_Re: Joel Kovel in Tikkun0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:28:59 EDT426_US-ASCII Norm, Shalom

My sentiments, exactly.

It's so sad when you see well meaning people so identified with their ideology that they cannot be moved even when the facts prove them to be holding on to false Gods. People must have felt the same way about the Socialists who continued and continued to rationalize the behavior of Stalin long after rational & compassionate Socialists stopped supporting him. [...]
15531 23 16_Translation help11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:41:22 -0500292_us-ascii Could, would you please help me. I need a translation of the song Ha-Ish Hahu by Natan Yonatan by Shlomo Artzi. If possible I need it be today, Tuesday October 15 or by Wenesday October 16. I am attaching the song site if you need the words in Hebrew to the song. Todah, Rozzie [...]
15555 44 6_Tikkun16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:38:01 -0400273_us-ascii In Habonet 2383, Jonathan Baum writes

> Why does a Jewish and supposedly pro-Israel magazine have to publish such rubbish? > What makes you think that Tikkun is either Jewish or pro-Israel? There's plenty of good reasons to suggest otherwise on both points.
15600 538 16_The long haul...13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:23:05 +0200713_windows-1255 This pretty much sums up how I feel about the current situation, and I hear the same sentiments from my fellow kibbutzniks. So much for our bad Zionist conscience. Jon





United State

















About 18 months ago, when Israeli soldiers entered the village of Beit Hanoun, several hundred meters over the Gaza border, the Bush administration forced them towithdraw in disgrace within 24 hours. But last week, in pulling back several hundred meters from Yasser Arafat's devastated Ramallah compound after 10 days of siege, Ariel Sharon won praise not only from George Bush but from Vladimir Putin and even the UN's [...]
16139 63 38_Re: Campuses Make Antisemitism Topic A7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 14 Oct 2002 20:53:44 +0200664_iso-8859-1 nu -- did they print it??? excellent letter, noam. pearl

----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak  To:  Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:59 PM Subject: Campuses Make Antisemitism Topic A



> To the editors of the Washington Post, > > The statements in "Campuses Make Israel Topic A" (A1, October 12, 2002) would be funny if the subject were not so serious. Edward Said claims that assertions that the spreading Israel divestiture movement is anti-Semitic are nonsense and talks of 35 years of Israeli occupation. As a historian Mr. Said is surely aware that the territory was [...]
16203 88 12_Re: From Sam7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:55:43 +0200386_iso-8859-1 strange letter from someone who could not survive in the then socialist state of Israel and returned to the capitalist U.S. A. in order to make a better living (this by his own admission). ----- Original Message ----- From: Smfgrappa@aol.com To: jkovel@prodigy.net Cc: EliD@worldnet.att.net ; habonet@shamash.org Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 5:47 PM Subject: From Sam [...]
16292 41 12_apology, Sam7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 15 Oct 2002 23:22:28 +0200155_windows-1255 I reread your letter, understood you were probably joking, although I took it seriously, so apologize publicly for turning the screw.... pearl
16334 53 31_Yizhak Rabin live online event.11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:58:44 -0500580_ISO-8859-1 

---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: ContactCenter  Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 22:08:58 +0200

<<...OLE_Obj...>> Shalom,

To mark the seventh anniversary of the Assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin zl we are inviting you to take part in a Live Web Text Study:

Shalom Chaver

The web study will be in English, led by Rabbi Zvi Grumet from Jerusalem and then followed by a presentation from a scholar in residence from the Yitzhak Rabin Center for Israel Studies. [...]
16388 151 16_Translation help12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:36:19 +0200363_us-ascii Rozzie, First, the angelfire site is a big help. Second, even they have typos in their Hebrew lyrics. Third this was not my favorite among Natan Yonatan's poems. But Shlomo Artzi turned into an alltime schlager when he sang it at memorials for Rabin. The only competition was by Arik Einstein and Miki Gabrialov's Oof Gozal. Fourth, who is cil_jsl? [...]
16540 88 20_Re: Translation help11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Wed, 16 Oct 2002 06:07:46 -0500355_us-ascii I know, but the shin-shin girl who is here is planning a memorial ceremony for Rabin at our school and wanted THAT particular song. cil is my cousin's wife, Janet Lerner, the wife of charlie lerner who lives in Ra'anana. She took a translator's course at Bet Berl. I thought she also might be able to help. Todah for the translation. Rozzie [...]
16629 119 38_Re: Campuses Make Antisemitism Topic A11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:41:32 -0400346_iso-8859-1 Skolnik wrote:

> nu -- did they print it??? excellent letter, noam. > pearl >

Thanks Pearl. Unfortunately it contains a number of typos, most noteably one near the end of the first paragraph which makes it appear I am claiming the Palestinians are honoring their Oslo committments - I've sent them some corrections. [...]
16749 38 39_Re: Live Rabin anniv Web URL correction0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:16:28 EDT377_US-ASCII To mark the seventh anniversary of the Assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin z"l we are inviting you to take part in a Live Web Text Study:

Shalom Chaver

The web study will be in English, led by Rabbi Zvi Grumet from Jerusalem and then followed by a presentation from a scholar in residence from the Yitzhak Rabin Center for Israel Studies. [...]
16788 121 20_Re: Translation help22_Ilan and Lorrie Israel24_ilanori@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:56:01 +0200509_iso-8859-1 Dear Amnon,

You beat me to the draw and that's fine as you translate so beautifully.

Thank you Roz for making me look up all the words. It put me in the right frame of mind for commemorating Yitzchak Rabin's murder.

Amnon - I have one question for you. Your translation of the line: sent his wealth > >Across seas in merchant ships The Hebrew version I have is "ono" not "hono" which is more correct to translate as "his power" although in English "wealth" sounds better. [...]
16910 145 29_Harvard & the Jewish Question16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:08:35 -0400649_iso-8859-1 The following item appeared in a recent issue of The New Republic.

HARVARD AND THE JEWISH QUESTION

Decency is a matter of making morality obvious, platitudinous, a societys second nature. When the legitimacy of prejudice is still a subject for controversy, something profound is awry. This was the point that Lawrence H. Summers, the president of Harvard, right made in a brief and extraordinary sermon that he delivered on September 17 before morning prayers in Harvards Memorial Church. His theme was anti-Semitism and its recent resurgence. It is, he said, a subject that I never thought I would become seriously [...]
17056 654 26_from this week's Spectator13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 17 Oct 2002 22:00:04 +0200668_windows-1255 They Want To Kill Us All

Forget the root causes, says Mark Steyn. The massacre in Bali was part of the continuing Islamofascist war against the West, and those who ignore it are sleepwalking to national suicide

An appeaser, said Churchill, feeds the crocodile in the hope that it will eat him last. But sometimes the croc eats him first anyway. For months, the US, Britain and Canada had warned the Indonesian government about terrorists operating within its borders. So had Singapore and Malaysia. President Megawatis administration responded by calling Washington anti-Muslim. The American ambassador was publicly denounced by her [...]
17711 28 31_Mark Steyn "Spectator" article.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:37:37 -0700566_iso-8859-1 Thank you Jonathon Baum, for posting the Mark Steyn article "They Want to Kill Us All".

Rarely, if ever, has an article been formulated in as efficient a manner, in addressing such a pressing problem: that of the inability of the West to be able to interpret the messages coming from the East. No doubt there will be people that will still stand around scratching their heads because the implications are so ominous. That is unfortunate. For most people, however, this article should be enough to shake them awake. If not, what hope is there? [...]
17740 20 5_Query0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:46:17 EDT545_US-ASCII Can someone tell us anything about an email I received from Habonet called Welcome to my Hometown? I did not open it - it looked like a large zipped file. Aliya

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
17761 50 9_Re: Query0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:49:02 EDT340_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/18/2002 1:47:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SC523@aol.com writes:

> Can someone tell us anything about an email I received from Habonet called > Welcome to my Hometown? I did not open it - it looked like a large zipped > file. > Aliya >

Haven't seen it. It does sound suspicious, doesn't it? [...]
17812 45 9_Re: Query0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:00:57 EDT319_US-ASCII > Can someone tell us anything about an email I received from Habonet > called Welcome to my Hometown? I did not open it - it looked like a > large zipped file.

Don't know how attachment got through, but DO NOT open it. Please delete.

----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com
17858 40 35_Re: Mark Steyn "Spectator" article.11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:46:04 -0400566_us-ascii Steve Klein wrote:

> Thank you Jonathon Baum, for posting the Mark Steyn article "They Want to > Kill Us All". > > Rarely, if ever, has an article been formulated in as efficient a manner, > in addressing such a pressing problem: that of the inability of the West to > be able to interpret the messages coming from the East. No doubt there will > be people that will still stand around scratching their heads because the > implications are so ominous. That is unfortunate. For most > people, however, this article should be enough to shake them [...]
17899 162 5_Likud16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:28:47 -0400602_us-ascii Newly elected Likud central committee members include former Jewish underground activists with connections to the outlawed Kahane Hai organization, according to an article posted on www.israelinsider.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Success of "Jewish Leadership" in Likud party raises concerns By Ellis Shuman and israelinsider staff October 17, 2002

Security officials and political analysts are carefully following successful efforts by a new right- wing political organization to enter the ranks of the Likud Party in significant numbers, Yediot Aharonot reported. [...]
18062 96 37_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBRdWVyeQ==?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:35:44 +0200450_iso-8859-1 Dear Aliya and Debbie,

My name is Mollie Marx and am writing to let you know that I also received the letter, "Welcome to my Hometown". Fortunately for me, my anti-virus program, Norton Anti-virus, sent me a warning not to open it because of a virus it contained.

Shabath Shalom, Mollie ----- Original Message ----- From: DebALev@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 7:49 AM Subject: Re: Query [...]
18159 309 0_11_Jamie Levin20_jamielevin@trentu.ca31_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:19:12 -0400482_iso-8859-1 New York Times October 16, 2002 Campus Hypocrisy By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN



he Washington Post recently reported that students and faculty at a growing number of universities are pressuring their schools "into selling their holdings in companies that do business with Israel, prompting a counter-campaign among Jewish groups that consider the effort part of a creeping tide of anti-Semitism on campus." Here's what I would say to both sides on this issue: [...]
18469 223 50_FWD: The Al-Aksa Intifada- A Cost Benefit Analysis11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:23:24 -0500611_us-ascii THE AL-AKSA INTIFADA--- A COST-BENEFIT ANALYSIS by ROBERT O. FREEDMAN



It has now been more than two years since the beginning of the Al-Aksa Intifadah in late September 2000, and this is a useful benchmark to evaluate what has been gained and what has been lost from the two years of violence.Three questions will be asked. First, what were the Palestinian goals at the start of the Intifada, and to what degree have these goals been realized? Second, what have the Palestinians gained and what have they lost by their uprising? Finally, what have the Israelis gained and what have [...]
18693 41 5_Query12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 20 Oct 2002 20:58:00 +0200225_us-ascii Me too. I got not one, but, two different emails. They both sounded Habonim-"logical" in a far fetched way but ultimately made no sense. In my pacifist way I ask, is there no way to nuke these guys-gals?

Amnon
18735 904 12_a true story13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il55_Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:43:17 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)397_iso-8859-1 What a change from all the doom and gloom coming out of Israel! Val

Subject: [Coming Home -A "feel-good" story

Coming Home After the concluding prayer, Dan quickly walked to the front of the shul in Jerusalem, said "Good Shabbos" to the rabbi and a few other people he knew, and at once made his way toward the back. Time to get home and make Kiddush for the family. [...]
19640 273 37_The Jew's brushfire civil war/Haaretz11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Sun, 20 Oct 2002 17:38:03 -0500531_us-ascii Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 15:27:52 -0700 (PDT)

Background / The Jews' brushfire civil war

By Bradley Burston, Ha'aretz Correspondent







A bid to dismantle an illegal settlement outpost in the West Bank has raised the specter of spiraling Jewish militant violence, amid echoes of the prelude to the 1995 assassination of prime minister Yitzhak Rabin, old fears of a civil war between the Jews, and new concerns that religious soldiers may think twice before carrying out orders. [...]
19914 41 29_The Jews' Brushfire civil War9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Sun, 20 Oct 2002 22:43:50 -0700568_us-ascii Please indulge me but there is a quote from abraham Linclon that I think has meaning for us in this situation. Although he was of course speaking of America I think the parallel is close enough.

"How shall we perform it? At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth in their military chest, with a Bonaparte [...]
19956 82 18_Cabinet Communique11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Mon, 21 Oct 2002 08:14:44 -0500388_us-ascii Jerusalem, 20 October 2002

CABINET COMMUNIQUE (Communicated by the Cabinet Secretariat)

At the weekly Cabinet meeting today (Sunday), October 20, 2002:

1. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon referred to events of recent days regarding the evacuation of Gilad Farm and said that they show why we must all act responsibly. The Prime Minister made several points. [...]
20039 450 29_from Sunday's Washington Post13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:42:24 +0200492_windows-1255 So Long, Fellow Travelers



By Christopher Hitchens

Sunday, October 20, 2002; Page B01



George Bush made a mistake when he referred to the Saddam Hussein regime as "evil." Every liberal and leftist knows how to titter at such black-and-white moral absolutism. What the president should have done, in the unlikely event that he wanted the support of America's peace-mongers, was to describe a confrontation with Saddam as the "lesser evil." [...]
20490 48 40_new CD from Linda Hirschhorn and Vocolot16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@mindspring.com31_Mon, 21 Oct 2002 11:01:48 -0700387_us-ascii The Perfect Chanukah Gift:

Heart Beat: A new Cd from Linda Hirschhorn and Vocolot

A passionate a cappella celebration of women's voices and percussion with songs that affirm life and one world at peace. Original and traditional music sung in English, Hebrew, Yiddish and Ladino.

Heart Beat - A place where the personal, social, political and spiritual [...]
20539 217 64_JTA - At Canadian campus rally,
speakers assail anti-Semitism0_15_debalev@aol.com31_Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:05:13 -0400367_iso-8859-1 Some follow-up re: Concordia College. JTA is a good source for news that doesn't always show up in the "regular" newspapers. _____



Following is an article from JTA  The Global News Service of the Jewish People. For in-depth coverage of the latest developments affecting Jews all over the world, click: www.jta.org  [...]
20757 490 31_FW: "The Baghdad-Ramallah Axis"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:32:05 -0700645_iso-8859-1 

-----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 3:13 PM To: hwgluckman@zapcom.net Subject: "The Baghdad-Ramallah Axis"



===== "The Baghdad-Ramallah Axis" (Jerusalem Post) =====

In the shifting sands of Arab alliances, it is hard to find instances of enduring relationships. But in a world where raw power struggles and dictatorial jealousies reign sovereign, one alliance stands out for its vitality, durability, and the mutual benefit it accrues to both sides. This rare relationship is Yasser Arafat's partnership with Saddam Hussein. [...]
21248 254 58_FW: YOUR EMAIL ACTIVISM HELPED SWC STOP HATE FEST IN ITALY11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:42:15 -0700558_US-ASCII Simon Wiesenthal Center -----Original Message----- From: Simon Wiesenthal Center [mailto:econtactor.wiesenthal@isissystemsgroup.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 9:13 PM To: steve klein Subject: YOUR EMAIL ACTIVISM HELPED SWC STOP HATE FEST IN ITALY





YOUR EMAIL ACTIVISM HELPED STOP HATE FEST IN ITALY Thanks to you and 25,000 other concerned activists who emailed protests to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, last week's scheduled antisemitic Holocaust Denier's conference in Verona, Italy... DID NOT HAPPEN! [...]
21503 1050 66_FW: Action: write a letter to the LA-Times regarding bias Headline11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:25:25 -0700650_iso-8859-1 Action: write a letter to the LA-Times regarding bias Headline -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 11:32 PM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: Action: write a letter to the LA-Times regarding bias Headline





Dear Friends, My 15-year-old daughter brought the front page of the LA Times home from school. After showing me the headline "14 killed in an Israeli bus attack, by Laura King, she told me that she had shown a friend of hers, another 15 years old, the headline and asked her what she thought had happened. The friend is your typical browse through the [...]
22554 18 17_Kibbutz landswap?9_Naomi Jay21_naomi_jay@hotmail.com31_Wed, 23 Oct 2002 13:53:21 -0700
22573 34 33_Re: from Sunday's Washington Post0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:06:48 EDT438_US-ASCII While it is quite easy to poke fun at some of those that are against an attack of Iraq, indeed poking fun at Ramsey Clark is so easy as to be not worth the effort, there do exist a number of very good reasons to oppose an American attack on Iraq, the most obvious being: Iraq is not a threat to the United States. If we (the U.S.) took it as our job to get rid of all governments which are not nice, we would be very busy indeed.
22608 472 56_FW: Being a Jew is a piece of honey cake, despite tsuris11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:15:36 -0700488_iso-8859-1 

-----Original Message----- From: Harry Gluckman [mailto:hwgluckman@zapcom.net] Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 5:05 PM To: * Harry W. Gluckman Subject: Being a Jew is a piece of honey cake, despite tsuris



Being a Jew is a piece of honey cake, despite tsuris

by Joseph Aaron







I absolutely love Yiddish.

But there is a Yiddish phrase, one of the best known of all Yiddish phrases, that I absolutely hate. [...]
23081 87 33_RE: from Sunday's Washington Post11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:15:40 -0700657_US-ASCII Whoever thinks this also knows for sure that Iraq is no threat to Israel, either.

Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Richardrdsmith@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:07 PM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: from Sunday's Washington Post



While it is quite easy to poke fun at some of those that are against an attack of Iraq, indeed poking fun at Ramsey Clark is so easy as to be not worth the effort, there do exist a number of very good reasons to oppose an American attack on Iraq, the most obvious being: Iraq is not a threat to [...]
23169 25 23_Writing to the LA Times11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 03:53:55 -0700383_iso-8859-1 For those of you that were somewhat stymied by the labyrinthian format within the Times website:

After reaching letters@latimes.com, goto "feedback". There are a lot of editors to choose from. Main editor was not available for some reason, at least not when I tried to access him by e-mail. Foreign editor is Marjorie Miller, and Jerusalem is Tracy Wilkinson. [...]
23195 130 33_CPI-not the Consumer Price Index!16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:13:11 -0400464_us-ascii << Israeli Communists Convene, Fight Sharon Policies ////////////////////////////////////////////////// by Judith Le Blanc People's Weekly WORLD http://www.pww.org October 19, 2002

NAZARETH -- The Communist Party of Israel (CPI) convened its 27th Congress amidst the crisis of the continued occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip and an escalating attack on social security, civil rights and democracy by the right-wing Sharon government. [...]
23326 38 33_Re: from Sunday's Washington Post11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:10:27 -0400493_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:

> So Long, Fellow Travelers > > By Christopher Hitchens > > Sunday, October 20, 2002; Page B01 > > George Bush made a mistake when he referred to the Saddam Hussein regime as "evil." Every liberal and leftist knows how to titter at such black-and-white moral absolutism. What the president should have done, in the unlikely event that he wanted the support of America's peace-mongers, was to describe a confrontation with Saddam as the "lesser evil." [...]
23365 74 33_Re: from Sunday's Washington Post21_c_shore@ix.netcom.com21_c_shore@ix.netcom.com31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:47:20 -0400478_iso-8859-1 As a Habonet lurker I usually do not respond, but calling Jon Baum Right Wing ? I do enjoy reading what list members thing are interesting and enlightening articles whether right or left wing. By the Way, what is right or left in an existential arguement? Peace, Steve Shore

Original Message: ----------------- From: Noam Stopak nstopak@orionsci.com Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:10:27 -0400 To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: from Sunday's Washington Post [...]
23440 86 33_Re: from Sunday's Washington Post11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:02:05 -0400298_us-ascii Hi Steve Shore,

Please read my note again. I didn't call Jon right wing at all. I referred to a discussion on the topic of the different treatment of people on the so called "left" and "right" on this list which took place over the summer. Seems to me the phenomenon persists. [...]
23527 94 49_Fw: CJI - New: The Online Jewish Clipart Database7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:25:36 +0200608_windows-1255 Jacob Richman has done it again. I think he eats and sleeps next to his computers. The clip art is a new educational tool for the Jewish community and schools.



> -----Original Message----- > From: cji-owner@cji.co.il [mailto:cji-owner@cji.co.il]On Behalf Of > Computer Jobs in Israel > Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:58 AM > To: cji@cji.co.il > Subject: CJI - New: The Online Jewish Clipart Database > > > Hi Everyone! > The next CJI job report will be on October 30. > > Last week's report had name and contact mistakes for the > Adveno company. I listed corrected the [...]
23622 189 33_Re: from Sunday's Washington Post13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:32:03 +0200548_iso-8859-1 This is starting to look like one of those parties that gets out of hand. My purpose in sending the Christopher Hitchens article was not so much to define my own politics or point of view, but rather to try to spark a debate here on the Habonet on the seemingly inevitable US-Iraq war. It seems to me that the issue is immense, the dangers are considerable, and the outcome far from certain. I also know that the issue is central to Americans these days, when they're not obsessing on the DC Sniper or the World Series, and I found [...]
23812 190 31_Re: the Washington Post article13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:57:10 +0200550_windows-1255 This is starting to look like one of those parties that gets out of hand. My purpose in sending the Christopher Hitchens article was not so much to define my own politics or point of view, but rather to try to spark a debate here on the Habonet on the seemingly inevitable US-Iraq war. It seems to me that the issue is immense, the dangers are considerable, and the outcome far from certain. I also know that the issue is central to Americans these days, when they're not obsessing on the DC Sniper or the World Series, and I found [...]
24003 70 27_the washington Post article13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 22:11:07 +0200550_windows-1255 This is starting to look like one of those parties that gets out of hand. My purpose in sending the Christopher Hitchens article was not so much to define my own politics or point of view, but rather to try to spark a debate here on the Habonet on the seemingly inevitable US-Iraq war. It seems to me that the issue is immense, the dangers are considerable, and the outcome far from certain. I also know that the issue is central to Americans these days, when they're not obsessing on the DC Sniper or the World Series, and I found [...]
24074 51 33_Re: from Sunday's Washington Post0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:13:14 EDT554_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/24/02 6:44:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com writes:



> Whoever thinks this also knows for sure that Iraq is no threat to Israel, > either. > > Steve >

I never suggested that Iraq was not a threat to Israel. I didn't think it was the responsibility of the U.S. army, navy, air force and marines to begin wars with countries that are a threat to Israel. Was I wrong? I merely said Iraq was not a threat to the United States, or at least no more of a threat than many other nations.
24126 99 34_Fwd: from Sunday's Washington Post0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:23:55 EDT194_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/24/02 4:13:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Richardrdsmith writes:



I sent this a few minutes ago but it never came to me so i send again




24226 255 80_FW: Urgent action: 1. Sign petition 2. Write a note: save CanadaMagen David Adom11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:10:55 -0700414_US-ASCII Urgent action: 1. Sign petition 2. Write a note: save Canada Magen David Adom -----Original Message----- From: Nava [mailto:nava@socal.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 3:06 PM To: Nava Skolnik Subject: Urgent action: 1. Sign petition 2. Write a note: save CanadaMagen David Adom



Dear Friends of Israel,

Please take a moment and read the following urgent action and act. [...]
24482 37 20_THE CONCRETE MONSTER0_14_HESHIG@aol.com31_Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:10:21 -0400564_iso-8859-1 It is called "the fence", but in reality it is a 8 Meters (25Ft.) high concrete wall. This monster is going to be a symbol of eternal war. It will be the tomb of any hope of peace, reconciliation and partnership between the two peoples of this country.

The building of the wall will entail a giant land theft. Many Palestinians will lose what remains of their land. Demolition orders for hundreds of homes have been issued. Whole villages will be cut off from the rest of the West Bank. In other places, the wall will separate the houses of [...]
24520 528 78_Boston Globe Online / Metro | Region / At Harvard forum, views on Israel clash16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:50:30 -0400106_us-ascii 

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/297/metro/At_Harvard_forum_views_on_Israel_clash+.shtml
25049 43 5_peace16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 26 Oct 2002 08:39:40 -040085_us-ascii This was irresistable.



> http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/ >
25093 956 29_OpinionJournal - Peggy Noonan16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:02:29 -040079_us-ascii 

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pnoonan/?id=110002529
26050 42 9_Re: peace13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:17:47 +020057_iso-8859-1 You're a very sick man. How did you find this?
26093 429 25_Hasbara U.S. for Israel..7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 26 Oct 2002 21:21:04 +0200473_Windows-1252 Message ----- Original Message ----- From: help Hasbara To: rothschild@europe.com Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 4:52 AM Subject: FW: The Palestinians are waging a BIG commercial war, against Israeli progress and Industry...







Dear Friends,

Why Hasbara? Hazbarah, (haz-ba-rah) n. explanation; Hazba (haz-ba) v. to explain.

The publication of the Advocacy for Israel Committee (A-Team) of Congregation Hasbara.us [...]
26523 20 17_Jon Baum re peace16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 27 Oct 2002 07:12:16 -0500483_us-ascii Lighten up. Wear sunscrean.



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com

Find us at COMDEX 2002! http://hebrewcollege.edu/comdex ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
26544 41 21_Re: Jon Baum re peace0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 27 Oct 2002 12:06:45 EST222_US-ASCII In a message dated 10/27/2002 4:13:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, EliD@worldnet.att.net writes:

> sunscrean. > Elihu- you are ueusally so "detail oriented" perfect...is the spelling meant to be a joke? ( sue)
26586 1205 39_Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:38:40 -0500
27792 49 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 04:48:45 +0200113_iso-8859-1 This article calls to mind Lenin's description of pro-Soviet Westerners as "useful idiots".

Jon
27842 31 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 09:10:51 -0500416_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:

> This article calls to mind Lenin's description of pro-Soviet Westerners as "useful idiots". Jon

I imagine you are referring to the folks who are calling Lerner with death threats? :-)

Noam

p.s. Your questions about why there isn't much talk on Habonet about Bush's Iraqi policy deserves a more serious response and I'm working on one as time permits. [...]
27874 57 21_HDF needs a computer!0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:50:27 EST360_US-ASCII Folks:

Here is something you can do for the cause. Do you have a computer that perhaps you have recently replaced at home because it can't handle the software from your new digital camera or your content downloading needs? Perhaps your business has replaced a computer recently and you could convince them to give it to a deserving cause? [...]
27932 49 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:08:24 +0200147_iso-8859-1 Ok, they are idiots as well. But I was really referring to the (for want of a better word) schmucks who are shielding Arafat.

Jon
27982 427 33_Where Would A.D. Gordon Be Today?9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:16:14 -0500591_iso-8859-1 

Naboth had a Vineyard Uri Avnery, (Gush Shalom) 26.10.02



Had they been there last Saturday at sunset, most Israelis would not have believed their eyes.

In the middle of Havarah, a small village south of Nablus, 63 Israelis, men and women, young and old, were standing together with dozens of Palestinian villagers. Jews and Arabs talked together, drank juice offered by the hosts, exchanged addresses and phone numbers. The local children were wearing stickers brought by the guests, showing the flags of Israel and Palestine. Nobody bore arms. [...]
28410 53 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:23:34 -0500359_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:

> Ok, they are idiots as well. But I was really referring to the (for want of a better word) schmucks who are shielding Arafat. Jon

That's what I figured. I agree on both counts. Let's try for a trifecta - how about the folks mentioned in this NYT snippet who are beating on some of the aforementioned idiots? [...]
28464 44 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:31:11 +020098_iso-8859-1 Yes. The act, if this is a true story, is reprehensible. But notice the first phrase...
28509 142 23_He's still out there...13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:40:50 +0200413_windows-1255 Angry white loner in van still on the loose, profilers warn

Urge public not to be fooled by conclusive ballistics evidence



Days after the police nabbed two suspects in the recent Washington D.C.-area sniper spree, sniper profilers warned the public that the typical sniper they had been profiling for weeks - an angry white loner in a white van - had still not been found. [...]
28652 25 27_Re: He's still out there...11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:51:42 -0500506_us-ascii If true this is quite scary, but it smells of the Onion to me. Be careful out there...

Jonathan Baum wrote:

> Angry white loner in van still on the loose, profilers warn >

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28678 331 27_Radicalization and Religion12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:50:35 +0200677_us-ascii 



Haverim/ot Yesterday's headlines spoke of the "Confrontation between young radicalized ultra-religious "hill youth" and the IDF." The army was called in to evict them from illegal settlements and very many of them resisted forcibly vilifying soldiers and hitting them. Tomorrow's headlines or sometime soon may read "Clerical-Fascist Junta Overthrows Democratic Regime." If this sounds like extreme histrionics let me ratchet it up a turn or two. Read Yair Sheleg's article below for a shudder. Just barely hiding in the wings is the c word - civil war. Submerged beneath the polity of Israel's many ethnic, economic, political tensions there was [...]
29010 184 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews26_Jon Katz and Sally Karasov20_jonsally@eticomm.net31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:17:21 -0500642_iso-8859-1 Jon, 'useful idiots' is an accurate but incomplete description. This guy is an idiot for calling Israel a 'rogue state'. He is useful, and I would add, courageous, principled and right for trying to protect Palestinian farmers from the settlers.

I can't help but draw a connection between this comment and other recent Habonet postings regarding such topics as the anti-Zionist articles in 'Tikkun', the protests over Bibi speaking at a 9/11 memorial, and the article you posted a while back by Yossi Klein Halevi, supporting the strong-hand approach of Moshe Ya'alon. All of these presented valid arguments in defense [...]
29195 23 23_Re: HABONET digest 23750_18_GeeDoubleU@aol.com31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:35:15 -0500481_iso-8859-1 I no longer have aol service and would like to change my address. Can anyone help me? My new address is johnandwendywalls@msn.com Thanks Wendy Bensussen-Walls

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com [...]
29219 149 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews13_Kathee Lavine26_holycowfoods@earthlink.net31_Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:44:14 -0800638_us-ascii Thanks Yonatan for a well reasoned post. I'm with you, and frankly I believe the settlements are our number one internal enemy. I, for one, welcome your comments, and frankly your having been on Gezer that long most definitely means you were in Habonim. Regards to Sally....your co-ex-gezerite, kathee



At 03:17 PM 10/28/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Jon, 'useful idiots' is an accurate but incomplete description. This guy >is an idiot for calling Israel a 'rogue state'. He is useful, and I would >add, courageous, principled and right for trying to protect Palestinian >farmers from the settlers. > >I can't help [...]
29369 67 18_concert in DC area0_12_SHX2@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:03:38 EST485_UTF-8 The Institute of Musical Traditions Presents An Evening With

Steve Hancoff



When: Monday, November 4, 2002, 8:00 PM Where: Unitarian Universalist Church of Silver Spring, 10309 New Hampshire Ave., Silver Spring, MD Tickets: $12 advance/$15 door

Tickets/Info/Directions: 301-754-3611

“The instrument is the acoustic guitar, and Steve Hancoff proves there is no limit to what can be done with it in the hands of a master.” - Jersey Jazz [...]
29437 19 22_Re: concert in DC area0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:49:55 EST504_US-ASCII Steve- How about a report on your trip to Israel?--susie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com

Find us at COMDEX 2002! http://hebrewcollege.edu/comdex ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
29457 45 43_Re: Pro-Palestine work bitterly splits Jews0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:17:59 EST255_US-ASCII Eli and others......I do wish you wouldn't send things as attachments. If it's from a web site, just send the U RL.

I can't read it because I NEVER open attachments, and Eli, a lot of your email comes that way.

Thanks.

Debbie
29503 96 16_From Gush Shalom0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:47:27 EST527_US-ASCII 

Gush Shalom (Israeli Peace Bloc) wrote: GUSH SHALOM - pob 3322, Tel-Aviv 61033 - http://www.gush-shalom.org/

Press Release, 29/10/2002

A further threat to Gush Shalom And to what democracy there is...

= == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = Assistance to International War Crimes Tribunal to be punishable Israeli Government Coalition Chair proposes new bill. Gush Shalom activists would face 10 years in prison = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == = == [...]
29600 107 18_From Ha'aretz OpEd0_14_HESHIG@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:28:40 EST625_US-ASCII Back aboard the ship of fools

By Ari Shavit



The state of Israel is threatened. It is surrounded by external threats, some threaten its existence. But the most dangerous threat to the state of Israel is not external, but internal - a psychological threat. The most dangerous threat to Israel is the threat of intellectual dishonesty. It's no accident that various Israeli leaders from time to time compare the state to a ship plowing through a stormy sea. Unlike the superpowers, Israel cannot be compared to a broad continent with a secure and guaranteed existence. It's more like a small [...]
29708 394 21_Twerskey on Wellstone13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:31:22 +0200669_windows-1255 Paul Wellstone and the future of the Democrats





By David Twersky





















Political fate took a decisive turn last week when an airplane carrying Minnesota's fighting liberal senator, Paul Wellstone, crashed, killing all aboard.



Wellstone entered the Senate in 1990 by defeating a Jewish Republican, Rudy Boschwitz, in a bitter campaign. A turning point came when a Boschwitz supporter sent a letter to Jewish voters attacking Wellstone as a bad Jew because he was married to a non-Jewish woman and wasn't raising his children as Jews. [...]
30103 119 31_Re: the washington Post article11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:08:30 -0500541_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:

> This is starting to look like one of those parties that gets out of hand. My > purpose in sending the Christopher Hitchens article was not so much to > define my own politics or point of view, but rather to try to spark a debate > here on the Habonet on the seemingly inevitable US-Iraq war. It seems to me > that the issue is immense, the dangers are considerable, and the outcome far > from certain. I also know that the issue is central to Americans these days, > when they're not obsessing on [...]
30223 48 12_Bush as poet11_Noam Stopak20_nstopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:02:09 -0500578_us-ascii 

This is a poem made up entirely of actual quotes from George W. Bush. The quotes have been arranged only for aesthetic purposes by Washington Post writer Richard Thompson.

Too good not to share, especially during National Poetry Month...

+++

MAKE THE PIE HIGHER by George W. Bush

I think we all agree, the past is over. This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses. Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning? Will the highways of the internet become more few? [...]