> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 5:32 PM > Subject: DAILY DOSE: Mental Limits > > > > B"H > > > > Mental Limits [...]
1219 22 37_Re: FW: FYI - Follow Up about ASHRAWI11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 03 Sep 2002 16:04:52 -0400651_us-ascii Richardrdsmith@aol.com wrote:
> Once again Noam is completely right, and that he is paraphrasing my first comments about the petition does not bother me at all.
Once again Richard astounds me by anticipating the substance of Mr. Celeste's reply.
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
1242 44 37_Re: FW: FYI - Follow Up about ASHRAWI0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:42:16 EDT309_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/3/02 4:05:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
> Once again Richard astounds me by anticipating the substance of Mr. > Celeste's reply. >
Well, it doesn't take a genius to come out in favor of a truly revolutionary idea like free speech.
1287 22 10_Shana Tova11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Tue, 3 Sep 2002 14:31:43 -0700537_iso-8859-1 Fellow Habonetters
I really like the idea of the well-wishing for the new year. I am extending my own. To ALL of you!
Steve Klein
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
1310 21 14_Re: Shana Tova0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:17:38 EDT667_US-ASCII Somehow the request for forgiveness from one another, which irrespective of its Jewish significance, seems like a periodic necessity for those of us on Habonet, seems to have gotten lost in the translation. Please forgive me (tongue in cheek) for having brought it up. Dennis
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
1332 49 50_Re: "V'tzivanu"...??? ( to anyone who will listen)10_Jon Zatkin26_jzatkin@public2.bta.net.cn30_Wed, 4 Sep 2002 21:54:19 +0800376_iso-8859-1 Noam was kind enough to write (in addition to previous welcome clarifications of my post)::
> They ("folks who want to make their 'truth' mine" in Dennis' > formulation or "fundamentalists" in Jon's) become enemies > when they are prescriptive about what is right and wrong, > especially when the alternative to accepting their prescription > is death. [...]
1382 25 0_21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy16_tsippi@attbi.com31_Wed, 04 Sep 2002 22:41:12 -0700687_us-ascii Dear Friends,
I'm leaving tomorrow morning for Israel and Europe, so 'bye for now and the next three weeks. If you're really, really good, I may send you a postcard. Or call if we happen to be on the same continent....
Shana Tova, Sh'nat Shalom U'vriyut.
Love,
Tsippi
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
1408 45 43_Shana Tova from the Habonim Dror Foundation0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:12:00 EDT296_US-ASCII Hi Folks:
No, this isn't a "word from your sponsor" (that will come later). This is a new year's wish to all of the Habonet members, both vocal and lurking, for a healthy, happy and peaceful new year.
Shana Tova v'Gmar Hatima Tova on Behalf of the HDF.
Ken Bob Chair
1454 710 47_RE: Shana Tova from the Habonim Dror Foundation11_Omri Kelmer24_shaliach@habonimdror.org30_Thu, 5 Sep 2002 08:32:02 -0400588_us-ascii Shana tova Ken Bob to you and your family I wish you a Healthy year Shanat shalom Happy New Year Omri
-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org] On Behalf Of KBob24@aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 7:12 AM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Shana Tova from the Habonim Dror Foundation
Hi Folks:
No, this isn't a "word from your sponsor" (that will come later). This is a new year's wish to all of the Habonet members, both vocal and lurking, for a healthy, happy and peaceful new year. [...]
2165 17 13_Re: To Tzippi0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:49:40 EDT430_US-ASCII Nsiyah tovah and SHana TovaH- sue
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
2183 49 15_RE: Israel Trip11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:25:33 -0700571_US-ASCII Tsippi
Safe journey.
Let us know when you get back!
Steve
-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Tsippi (Frances) Rudy Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:41 PM To: Habonet@shamash.org Subject:
Dear Friends,
I'm leaving tomorrow morning for Israel and Europe, so 'bye for now and the next three weeks. If you're really, really good, I may send you a postcard. Or call if we happen to be on the same continent.... [...]
2233 148 48_FW: CAMERA FYI: The Many Ways We Can Help Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:35:41 -0700257_US-ASCII
-----Original Message----- From: Search4news@aol.com [mailto:Search4news@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 10:18 AM To: Search4news@aol.com Subject: Fwd: CAMERA FYI: The Many Ways We Can Help Israel
2382 306 82_FW: ACTION-Support the McConnel/Feinstein Amendment (Stop violence against Israel)11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:43:47 -0700534_UTF-8
-----Original Message----- From: Search4news@aol.com [mailto:Search4news@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:42 PM To: Search4news@aol.com Subject: ACTION-Support the McConnel/Feinstein Amendment (Stop violence against Israel)
Submitted by the Council of Israeli Community- Media Group (www.cicisrael.com)
BY SUPPORTING THE McCONNELL/FEINSTEIN AMENDMENT YOU WILL HELP TO STOP THE CAMPAIGN OF VIOLENCE AGAINST ISRAEL AND PENALIZE THE PLO AND THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY FOR NEGLIGENCE [...]
2689 25 47_Re: Shana Tova from the Habonim Dror Foundation20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@yahoo.com36_Thu, 5 Sep 2002 12:26:28 -0700 (PDT)666_us-ascii Emerging briefly from deep lurkdom to wish us all a Shana Tova, filled with health, happiness and peace.
Naomi Goldberg Honor
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
2715 49 28_Re: My liberal friend Dennis11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:06:26 -0400603_us-ascii Found this in my drafts folder, apologies those who were hoping this discussion had gone away.
DLerner569@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 8/26/2002 6:40:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes: > >> Clear choices are good. One problem I see with your >> approach is an apparent assumption that it is possible >> to unilaterally define which are Arab territories. As a >> result I don't believe your proposition is zero sum. If I >> understand the thrust of your postings (and I'm sure you >> will correct me if necessary) it seems you wish to draw >> the [...]
2765 26 10_Shana tova13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:22:10 -0400371_us-ascii Dear Chevreh,
As this year draws to a close, I am very grateful to have habonet as my virtual machaneh and all of you at machaneh with me! You make me laugh and make me think and sometimes make me angry and I'm sure I do the same to many of you. I won't apologize for any of it because it is why I keep coming back day after day and year after year. [...]
2792 53 13_Shana Tova...0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Fri, 6 Sep 2002 00:31:23 EDT272_US-ASCII ...U'metuka.
Amazing group, still... after 7 years and counting.... May this year bring the peace we all seek.
Failing that, may we win the lottery.
Gmar Chatima Tova, Brian
----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com
2846 809 80_FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Fri, 6 Sep 2002 16:19:59 -0700458_us-ascii Habonetters
Just when you thought things couldn't get any goofier. Is this the country I grew up in? Maybe I'm too jumpy, but this stuff makes no sense to me.
Your feedback requested.
Steve -----Original Message----- From: Search4news@aol.com [mailto:Search4news@aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:43 AM To: Search4news@aol.com Subject: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11. [...]
3656 1150 80_RE: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net30_Fri, 6 Sep 2002 22:51:36 -0700536_us-ascii Not sure what does not make sense, the exclusion or the protest, please explain.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Steve Klein Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:20 PM To: Habonet Subject: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.
Habonetters
Just when you thought things couldn't get any goofier. Is this the country I grew up in? Maybe I'm too jumpy, but this stuff makes no sense to me. [...]
4807 45 80_Re: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:52:43 +0200169_iso-8859-1 Steve, this whole attitude is about par for the course at the PRB ("People's Republic of Berkeley"). You can be for anything, as long as it's not America. Jon
4853 234 80_Re: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sat, 7 Sep 2002 09:58:43 +0200654_iso-8859-1 Now that I think of it, I much prefer this response to the decision of the Berkeley student government:
NEWS RELEASE from the United States Department of Defense
No. 456-02 (703)697-5131(media) IMMEDIATE RELEASE September 6, 2002 (703)428-0711(public/industry)
NAVY SECRETARY ASSIGNS NEW SHIP NAME NEW YORK
At a ceremony to be held Saturday, Sept. 7, at 9:30 a.m. aboard the Intrepid Sea, Air and Space Museum in New York Harbor, Secretary of the Navy Gordon England will announce his decision to name the fifth ship of the San Antonio class of Amphibious Transport Dock ships, "New York," to honor the state, [...]
5088 31 84_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 07 Sep 2002 11:14:22 -0400497_us-ascii Hi Steve,
What's wrong with keeping the rememberance about the people who were killed rather than adding to the spirit of jingoism and war fever? Seems like an good way to start making this Shana more Tova than the last.
As requested,
Noam
Steve Klein wrote:
> HabonettersJust when you thought things couldn't get any goofier. Is this the country I grew up in? Maybe I'm too jumpy, but this stuff makes no sense to me.Your feedback requested.Steve [...]
5120 90 84_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sat, 7 Sep 2002 18:51:40 +0200603_iso-8859-1 Noam, I'm afraid that you just don't get it. The innocent people who were murdered a year ago were killed because they were Americans. No more, no less. The reason those clowns in Berkeley don't want an American flag showing or the national anthem playing at their "tribute" is because they hate what your country stands for in every sense. It is the same moral relativism that allows these campus Marxists to equate terrorism to self defense. Being proud of your country isn't necessarily "jingoism". At every anti-government rally I've ever been at here in Israel, there are plenty of [...]
5211 79 84_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 07 Sep 2002 12:53:39 -0400618_iso-8859-1 Jonathan Baum wrote:
> Noam, I'm afraid that you just don't get it. The innocent people who were murdered a year ago were killed because they were Americans. No more, no less. The reason those clowns in Berkeley don't want an American flag showing or the national anthem playing at their "tribute" is because they hate what your country stands for in every sense. It is the same moral relativism that allows these campus Marxists to equate terrorism to self defense.Being proud of your country isn't necessarily "jingoism". At every anti-government rally I've ever been at here in Israel, there [...]
5291 97 84_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sat, 7 Sep 2002 20:51:46 +0200574_iso-8859-1 I don't need to lampoon them. They themselves are a joke. And while I can certainly understand your concerns about civil liberties, in case you haven't noticed, you guys are at war. Every country so engaged will take similar steps to protect itself and its citizens, if it is psychologically well. Perhaps the next mass terror attack on your country - and I'm ready to make book that it will come - will convince you. I agree that the question of invading Iraq is problematic (I assume this is what you are referring to in your "regime change" phrase). Even [...]
5389 60 84_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 07 Sep 2002 14:43:04 -0400593_us-ascii Hi Jon,
Ok, I'll agree that the attempt to limit anyone's expression during the remembrance, as long as they aren't disruptive, is misguided.
Regarding "regime change", Iraq isn't the only issue. We've already instituted, most likely for better, a new regime in Afghanistan. A fellow from the Rand Corporation kicked up a fuss, and apparently was forced to resign, for suggesting to the defense policy board that it is time to see the Saudis as the enemy they are and to perhaps consider a regime change there as well if they don't shape up. Who's next? Who knows? [...]
5450 79 84_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sat, 7 Sep 2002 22:16:01 +0200598_iso-8859-1 Ok, I'll agree that people have the right to rally without the flag. And I'll agree that it is repression when you lose your job because you think that a country should be invaded. I don't agree with your former political Advisor when he describes the USA's response as "vigilantism". I feel that, up until now, the response has been justified and proportional, pretty much. America hasn't officially declared war since 1941. That didn't stop Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf, plus a host of lesser lights. Wars are not only between nations, since wars predate them. And, like the wars [...]
5530 357 84_RE: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net30_Sat, 7 Sep 2002 13:45:20 -0700368_iso-8859-1 BTW, Galileo High School in S.F. has chosen to do the same and not make the remembrance a “patriotic” event, which has basically become a show of support for the Bush administration. The call-ins to various radio stations have mostly been in support, though what is interesting is that those who support have mostly been women, and those against, men. [...]
5888 45 77_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotis...0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sat, 7 Sep 2002 18:45:31 EDT396_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/7/02 3:18:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jonbaum@sasa.org.il writes:
> There were special restrictions in the Civil War, WWI and WWII. They were > rescinded after the wars ended. >
The trouble is that you picked three wars that actually ended. The "war" we are now in will never end so that any "special restrictions" will also never be recinded.
5934 81 41_Re: patriotism on 9-11, war (or not), etc11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 07 Sep 2002 19:55:15 -0400341_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:
> Ok, I'll agree that people have the right to rally without the flag.
> And I'll agree that it is repression when you lose your job because you think that a country should be invaded. >
Well, the good folks at Rand insist his departure is unrelated to the bruhaha. Bruhaha? Ha ha ha. [...]
6016 158 84_RE: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism on 9-11.11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 06:44:04 -0700322_iso-8859-1 Jonathon Baum
You are making total sense. You have TONS of support for your views. I am not allowed to get into this because of restrictions I have agreed to abide by. I imagine that others have their reasons for watching this fray from the sidelines this time. Good luck and keep up the good work! [...]
6175 132 78_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism...0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 10:18:55 EDT363_US-ASCII To Noam from Sam F
I think that everyone has the right to protest and have all the freedoms. We share some values with the PRB. (Peoples Republic of Berkley) But I have had a chance to have discussions with folks from this group and they are not always thinking clearly We should be ready to oppose what is becoming an irrationaset of ideas. [...]
6308 701 24_FYI Interesting article-0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 11:04:32 EDT52_US-ASCII "Ain chadash tachat hashamesh"---susie
7010 198 41_Re: patriotism on 9-11, war (or not), etc13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 18:23:52 +0200593_iso-8859-1 Thank you, Steve.
Noam, what I meant by wars predating nations is exactly that. As a person who studied politics, I'm sure you know that the nation-state is a social and political construct of the last 300 years or so. Wars, on the other hand have been fought by men since pre-historic times. Why should wars be just between nations? There are wars between tribes and clans. In 17th century Europe there were a terrible series of conflicts (grouped into what is now called the Thirty Years War) that were primarily between religious groups and fought by large crowds of [...]
7209 60 41_Re: patriotism on 9-11, war (or not), etc11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 08 Sep 2002 11:48:28 -0400420_us-ascii Hi Jon,
You think my definition of war is too restictive, and I think your definition of nations is too restrictive. Are you saying that the kingdom of David wasn't a nation? That the Chinese Empire was not a state?
For what it's worth I agree that tribal battles are warfare too. I recognize that we are a violent species and that armed conflict has existed as long as there have been arms. [...]
7270 59 78_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism...11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 08 Sep 2002 11:48:54 -0400412_us-ascii
Dear Sam,
Couldn't agree more. Defending the right of the folks in Berkeley to commemorate the September 11 attacks in the way they see fit is not the same as agreeing with them.
When I was in Santa Cruz I experienced much of the thinking and behavior from the "progressive" and "deconstructionist" camps that disturbs you and I too found it both unsettling and unproductive. [...]
7330 74 41_Re: patriotism on 9-11, war (or not), etc13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 19:52:02 +0200452_iso-8859-1 Hi Noam.
Yes, I'll say that the Kingdom of David wasn't a nation - rather a tribal coalition - and that the Chinese Empire was perhaps a state, but it certainly wasn't a nation.
As for the Bush "coup d'etat", since you believe that the current American government is illegitimate, this implies that you believe that anything the administration does has no authority as well. I guess this is a line I'm not ready to cross. [...]
7405 48 28_Chaver Steve and Chaver Jack0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 12:54:09 EDT399_US-ASCII Chevre, Shana Tova
OK, so I'm behind in reading Habonet! It happens.
But Dorna and I still want to wish everyone a Shana that's more tova and more metuka than the last one. B'vakasha!
Chaver Steve ==========================================
And here's a message from Chaver Jack:
DEAR DORNA AND STEVE: SHANAH TOVA AND COULD YOU SPREAD THE WORD TO THE [...]
7454 62 78_Re: FW: ACTION-Call or Write UC Berkeley to protest exclusion of patriotism...0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 13:13:07 EDT417_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/8/02 9:40:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com writes:
> I am not allowed to get into this because of restrictions I have agreed to > abide by
I want to know what this is about. Are posters to this form being censored? If they are I think I have a right to know about it. Just because a person's ideas are wrong is no reason to censor them. [...]
7517 50 41_Re: patriotism on 9-11, war (or not), etc11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 08 Sep 2002 13:17:19 -0400538_us-ascii Jonathan Baum wrote:
> Hi Noam.
> Yes, I'll say that the Kingdom of David wasn't a nation - rather a tribal coalition - and that the Chinese Empire was perhaps a state, but it certainly wasn't a nation.
Don't recall why we got onto this tangent? Did Larkin define war as armed conflict between nation states? I'd modify that to refer to organized groups of people with a territory. Not sure how nomadic tribes fit in, though typically they have a territory through which they migrate which may qualify. [...]
7568 129 14_Oh My Benjamin12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 08 Sep 2002 22:57:57 +0200545_iso-8859-1 Haverim/ot When I still attended a synagogue on Yom Kippur I used to do mental calisthenics to keep my mind from going down for the count of the afternoon hours. One year I chanced on something about fasting in the Mishna that sounded promising: [Ta’anit 4:8] : Rabbi Shimon ben Gamliel said “Israel had no days as festive as the 15th of Av and Yom Kippur....” . And in the matching tractate Ta’anit in the Gemara, I found six explanations of why exactly this day of Tu B’av is a day of happiness. The first tells us that in the [...]
7698 188 41_Re: patriotism on 9-11, war (or not), etc0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 23:29:30 EDT483_UTF-8 Please accept the following article of my authorship as comment on the prospect of 9/11 and war on Iraq. Dennis
For months after the terrorist attack on the WTC and Pentagon I felt perpetually on the edge of tears. I was depressed, angry and sad. Thousands were dead and there was no way to reset reality, to bring them back. The empty skyline was a metaphor for our collective loss. For a while, I think, we were all overcome with the emotion and grief we shared. [...]
7887 43 18_Re: Oh My Benjamin0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sun, 8 Sep 2002 23:54:29 EDT264_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/8/2002 3:57:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, amriv@netvision.net.il writes:
> who stood to gain from the dismemberment of Benjamin
Oh, My God. You're beginning to think like me, a lawyer. I shall pray for you. Dennis
7931 45 14_Oh My Benjamin12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 09 Sep 2002 13:27:41 +0200252_us-ascii Dennis, Shana tova. You wrote: Oh, My God. You're beginning to think like me, a lawyer. I shall pray for you. Dennis And like a lawyer that was some(what) brief. I like the longer pieces you write too. Don't pray for me Argentina.
Amnon
7977 51 18_Re: Oh My Benjamin0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:45:44 EDT595_US-ASCII Amnon, I'm reading a book (an atypical exercise) called Leadership and the New Sciences by a Ms. Wheatley. I read it in Shul all during Rosh HaShana services. It doesn't intend to be, but it is very spiritual. I was reading yesterday a section about out collective human energies and how at the Quantum level they constitute intersecting fields which if aligned would have amplified effect on what we perceive as reality. I'm looking at the open ark, full of white dressed Torot and sparkling silver vestments, and I'm thinking, with or without God, this is what Judaism is about, [...]
8029 69 11_Jewish name16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 09 Sep 2002 10:03:27 -0400737_iso-8859-1 The Best-Marketed ‘Jewish’ Name Ever
The Jewish groups complaining about the new advertising campaign (“Jewish Groups Say DaimlerChrysler Ads ‘Whitewash’ History,” July 11) missed the original DaimlerChrysler “whitewash:” Daimler’s famous “Mercedes” brand is named after Mercedes Jellinek, a little Jewish girl. Her father, Emil Jellinek, a pioneering race driver and car dealer on the French Riviera, raced Daimler cars. In those days, gentlemen used a pseudonym when racing cars, and Jellinek styled himself “Monsieur Mercedes,” using his daughter’s first name. Monsieur Mercedes’s great racing victories created demand for the “Mercedes” cars, particularly among high society, and Jellinek placed the company’s [...]
8099 21 10_Fan Letter12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 09 Sep 2002 21:33:36 +0200516_us-ascii Jon I admire the way you write, even when I disagree with the thrust of an ocasional posting. You bring a whole dimension sometimes missing from Habonet > the history of conflict is my area of expertise, so I couldn't resist.> My own area of expertise is the coincidences of geography - hardly a recognized discipline. So having been a member of Gesher Haziv for several decades I wonder if there is something in the water of Western Galilee that inclines people to mental ability? Anyhow, keep it up. [...]
8121 54 14_Re: Fan Letter13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Mon, 9 Sep 2002 21:56:07 +0200383_iso-8859-1 Well, Amnon, thanks very much. I admire your writing as well, although I have to admit that metaphysics isn't my thing and that your background in Tanach and philosophy leaves me in the dust. I should also point out, as much as I love my home and the Galilee, that it was the water in Philadelphia, if we're looking for aquatic causes. Thanks again for the compliment, Jon
8176 762 19_FW: Today's Germany11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Mon, 9 Sep 2002 12:37:05 -0700597_US-ASCII
-----Original Message----- From: Janet Levy [mailto:janet@levyross.com] Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 9:44 AM To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Subject: Today's Germany
Here it is again, Steve. Be sure to circulate it widely! Thanks.
Janet
Subject: A non-Jew's View of Today's Germany
William E. Grim is a writer who lives in Germany and is a native of Columbus, Ohio. He may be reached at wgrim@myrealbox.comand. You can read more by and about him at The Official William E. Grim Website (williamegrim.tripod.com) [...]
8939 77 38_Care2 E-Card from Shloime (Sol) Perel]0_24_purpleroot8@netscape.net31_Mon, 09 Sep 2002 18:21:40 -0400488_iso-8859-1 Shana Tova!
I don't know whether this ecard will make it through, but in case it doesn't (or even if it does), I'd like to wish everyone all the best in the new year.
Shloime (Sol)
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9017 31 19_A heartfelt "todah"0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Mon, 9 Sep 2002 18:30:18 EDT682_US-ASCII I would like to thank all of our chevre in Israel- especially Amnon, Jon Baum, Frankie (Ephraim ) Perlmutter, and Pearl Skolnik- for continuing to communicate to us via Habonet during this difficult past year. I know that I would wait impatiently for Amnon's Shabbat literary "sheurim"- expecting and always receiving an potent literary and often persistant thought-provoking and zionist -intensive-care drip, Jon's and Frankie"s deep and thoughtful reactions...Pearl's personal stories- sometimes gut-wrenching- sometimes provoking- but always with "heart." - I feel especially lucky to even sometimes just "lurk ( although I admit this is a rare occurance) and read [...]
9049 18 14_Todah to..A PS0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:12:02 EDT526_US-ASCII And to Brian Cooper, and of course, Dennis, and to anyone else I, in my old -age- amnesiactic state, forgot....forgive me...susie
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9068 24 22_Jewish Labor Committee13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:19:32 -0400640_us-ascii Dear Chevreh,
Does any one know how to get in touch with the DC chapter of the Jewish Labor Committee? I tried to search by the internet but haven't found a link to their website, if they have one.
Gmar Hatima tova to all. Jduy Gelman
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9093 24 22_Jewish Labor Committee13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:19:43 -0400640_us-ascii Dear Chevreh,
Does any one know how to get in touch with the DC chapter of the Jewish Labor Committee? I tried to search by the internet but haven't found a link to their website, if they have one.
Gmar Hatima tova to all. Judy Gelman
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
9118 163 32_Real Battles and Empty Metaphors11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 13:37:50 -0400215_us-ascii
I don't always agree with Susan Sontag, but I think she captures much of what I was trying to say to Jon over the weekend in the article at www.nytimes.com/2002/09/10/opinion/10SONT.html
Noam
9282 536 36_RE: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:03:22 -0700789_us-ascii Real Battles and Empty Metaphors Fellow Habonetters
I don't get it ----again.
Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Noam Stopak Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 10:38 AM To: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh Subject: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors
------------------------------------------------------------------------
September 10, 2002 Real Battles and Empty Metaphors By SUSAN SONTAG
ince last Sept. 11, the Bush administration has told the American people that America is at war. But this war is of a peculiar nature. It seems to be, given the nature of the enemy, a war with no foreseeable end. What kind of war is that? [...]
9819 29 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:33:08 EDT570_US-ASCII I agree with Steve- While Sontag is very eloquent, what she forgets is the fact that this IS a war- but on a global level that MUST end, or we will all be destroyed by some fanatic at some time. The problem with comparing all of this to Lincoln, or to some "war" on cancer is that these "wars" had/have physical boundaries- they are - in some scope- limited and comprehensible. Terror- and its contemporary manifestations- are incomprehensible and limitless, and the only way to deal with it is to eradicate ALL of it from each and every source (including [...]
9849 49 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:45:07 -0400585_us-ascii
LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:
> I agree with Steve- While Sontag is very eloquent, what she forgets is the > fact that this IS a war- but on a global level that MUST end, or we will all > be destroyed by some fanatic at some time. The problem with comparing all of > this to Lincoln, or to some "war" on cancer is that these "wars" had/have > physical boundaries- they are - in some scope- limited and comprehensible. > Terror- and its contemporary manifestations- are incomprehensible and > limitless, and the only way to deal with it is to eradicate [...]
9899 53 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:56:45 EDT359_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/10/2002 7:45:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
> I'm glad Bush has stood with Israel. I'm not ready to let him > and his attorney general burn the constitution in gratitude. And > his oil friends are making out just fine, as are his friends who > benefit from all the defense spending. [...]
9953 67 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 20:09:10 EDT361_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/10/02 7:44:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
> I'm glad Bush has stood with Israel. I'm not ready to let him > and his attorney general burn the constitution in gratitude. And > his oil friends are making out just fine, as are his friends who > benefit from all the defense spending. > > [...]
10021 53 20_New year to remember13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 10 Sep 2002 23:54:15 -0400
10075 44 24_Re: New year to remember0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 00:24:28 EDT185_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/10/02 11:55:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gelman@erols.com writes:
> Dear Richard, > Happy 5763! > Judy
Thank you Judy. Happy New Year
10120 34 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:04:16 -0400578_us-ascii
Richardrdsmith@aol.com wrote:
> On this point, I must disagree at least partially with Noam. I also am against much of what the administration is doing, especially Ashcroft, who I don't trust for a second. However, I think to accuse either of them, Bush or Ashcroft, of doing what they are for the financial benefit of a few people is unfair. All that they have done and are planning to do could just as easily be the result of honest and altruistic motives with which we just don't agree. ... > > No offense meant Noam and a happy New Year [...]
10155 132 46_Thomas Friedman 9/11/02 NYTimes: Noah and 9/1111_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:52:30 -0400643_iso-8859-1
Ok so far Steve still doesn't get it and Sue disagrees.
Try Thomas Friedman on for size.
In particular the following paragraph speaks to me:
"Yes, we must kill the murderers of 9/11, but without becoming murderers and without simply indulging ourselves. We must defend ourselves — without throwing out civil liberties at home, without barring every Muslim student from this country, without forgetting what a huge shadow a powerful America casts over the world and how it can leave people feeling powerless, and without telling the world we're going to do whatever we want because there has been a [...]
10288 47 50_Re: Thomas Friedman 9/11/02 NYTimes: Noah and 9/110_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:07:39 EDT688_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/11/02 7:53:18 AM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
<< It gives us the credibility
to demand the rule of law, religious tolerance, consensual
government, self-criticism, pluralism, women's rights and respect
for the notion that my grievance, however deep, does not entitle
me to do anything to anyone anywhere. >>
Thank you, Noam, for this article- funny how different parts stike us- So how are our brothers and sisters in ISrael supposed to react? When innocent and young are being "murdered"- And while Mr. Freidman in one sentence says we shouldn't become murderers, he admits that these infidels need to [...]
10336 32 50_Re: Thomas Friedman 9/11/02 NYTimes: Noah and 9/1111_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:43:05 -0400346_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:
> ... > Thank you, Noam, for this article- funny how different parts stike us- So > how are our brothers and sisters in ISrael supposed to react?
Would that I had the answers Susie.
> ... All I want to do is go and plant a tree. susie
Sounds like a great way to start the year. [...]
10369 37 50_Re: Thomas Friedman 9/11/02 NYTimes: Noah and 9/110_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:10:54 EDT596_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/11/02 12:44:32 PM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
<< You could even write a book - "a tree grows in LA" :-) >>
LOL- But it would have to be smog-proof!....(Actually- I have a lemon tree on my balcony growing in a pot and I have 20 lemons on it!)- What I love about Nature and Animals ( with capital "N"s and "A"s is that it is comforting in it's sense-making- basic survival.... A rose- even with thorns, doesn't try and "inflict" itself on carnations- sometimes plants "battle" for water- ...but it is not a philosphical thing...That is why [...]
10407 28 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:16:10 EDT568_US-ASCII Speaking of Bush, I was talking with a friend who has a friend who was at Yale with Bush, who says it was Bush and his pals who's pastime was beating up Jewish students. I suppose those youthful attitudes of privilege and status, and going along with the crowd have changed over the years to make his a fan of the Jews. I suppose our influence in congress, our dollars of political support, our writers, and our link to the messianic dreams of the religious right, have nothing to do with his strong support for Israel. Its Israel's democracy, technical [...]
10436 23 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:21:54 EDT558_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/11/02 1:17:35 PM, DLerner569@aol.com writes:
<< Can I interest you in a bridge? >>
How about "Splendor Bridge"???- :) susie
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10460 35 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:25:58 EDT570_US-ASCII Noam, old buddy,
Imagine with me a US invasion of Iraq. In 10 days the war is over and the real job of building a free and democratic Iraq with leadership committed to the US position on all matters of substance begins. I figure this is a 40-50 year process. In the mean time US forces, supplies, technical resources and others are committed to Iraq in large numbers. Who pays for all this nation building effort? Could it be that the administration, if they are fortunate enough to go it alone, could take control of Iraq's oil fields metering out [...]
10496 18 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:29:41 EDT462_US-ASCII Noam, I'm with you on this one too. Ash to ashes, Bush to Dust. Dennis
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
10515 39 40_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors--PS0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:37:51 EDT550_US-ASCII I am at work and can't focus-- too much of a hard day to "do business"....I had to go and pick up something for our newspaper and was driving around the Valley in a fog--....My son's college roommate (Andrew Zucker) died in the WTC while his wife was pregnant. This time of year always brings me angst anyway because of the Yom Kippur War and my conflicting feelings about expressing myself as a Jew during these times while living in America. This year I "lucked out" because Micha is filling in as a chazzan at a reform temple for my [...]
10555 22 50_Re: Thomas Friedman 9/11/02 NYTimes: Noah and 9/110_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:58:20 EDT648_US-ASCII Sue, I have pictures. There was a Chamseen that day, we were walking to Masada. Dust everywhere Kafeeyahs wrapped around our heads, the dust so thick the sun was blue and faint. Vultures everywhere. Thanks for waking up those old neural connections. Dennis
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
10578 18 36_Re: Real Battles and Empty Metaphors0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:58:52 EDT414_US-ASCII I'm interested. Dennis
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10597 18 14_Re: Pictures--0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 17:27:09 EDT479_US-ASCII Hi! Any way you could scan them and email them to us?.....That would be so cool!--susie
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10616 45 33_LZ Alumni solidarity trip success13_Joel Winograd15_mail@jelaco.com31_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:30:13 -0500472_US-ASCII Shalom chevre,
Recently, the first contingent of the LZ solidarity group returned from a two week project in Israel. We were involved in 3 major activities: -Tutoring in math & English in a Ethiopian self-help organization, Maksam, in Hadera. -Preparing food packages and warehousing for Pitchon Lev, a food/clothing bank in Rishon LeZion serving all comers -Urban ecology awareness with the Jersusalem Bird Observatory including both Jews and Arabs. [...]
10662 223 39_Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:33:31 EDT333_UTF-8 Subj: Fwd: An account of Jew hatred in Montreal Date: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 7:01:48 PM From: Tanta To: ... NEVETS2
This seems like a sincere heartfelt account from a young Jewish student. I especially like her plea for eradicating hatred near the end of her story. Toby ----------------- Forwarded Message: [...]
10886 52 43_Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:07:37 EDT373_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/11/02 8:34:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, NEVETS2@aol.com writes:
> > Subj: Fwd: An account of Jew hatred in Montreal
I think we need to take this particular message seriously. Something is desperately wrong in our little world. Clearly this sort of hatred coming from the Palestineans does not bode well for peace.
10939 106 28_Re: Kumsitz in Yerushalayim!11_Sue Mackson16_susiem6@juno.com31_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:53:57 -0400528_- Any word on the outcome of this posted event?
Susie Mackson.
On Fri, 19 Jul 2002 00:36:36 EDT SC523@aol.com writes: > Dear Chevreh, > > This is a difficult time for all in Israel, but I hope it is still > appropriate to find a bit of hope in gathering together. As such, > Ora Blau > Maggen and I would like to invite Habochevreh from near and far to > gather for > a summer kumsitz in her garden in Yerushalayim on Saturday night, 24 > August, > at 7 PM. Bring instruments, bring old shironim, and bring > [...]
11046 18 28_Re: Kumsitz in Yerushalayim!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:44:59 EDT517_US-ASCII I was wondering the same thing- who was there? how did it all go? Usually Aliya is great about reporting--nu?????- susie
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org a project of Hebrew College. Hebrew College is pleased to also co-sponsor: http://www. MyJewishLearning.com Participate in Creating the World's Most Ambitious New Jewish Web Site ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
11065 29 28_Re: Kumsitz in Yerushalayim!0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Thu, 12 Sep 2002 01:10:50 EDT566_US-ASCII Here's the capsule version:
It was a very difficult summer for all; many Habochevreh who believed ardently in seeing peace in our lifetime no longer believe that will happen for the most part. In the midst of such heavy feelings, people came together from all over the country - from as far as Urim, Tel Aviv, Rechovot. . . . we ranged in age from our 20s to our 70s, from pre-first Workshop to the newest Garin Yovel members. We sang in Orah Blaustein's beautiful garden under the stars, ate delicious homemade food, and kept going until 1 AM. [...]
11095 82 43_Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal0_24_purpleroot8@netscape.net31_Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:30:06 -0400418_iso-8859-1 hello and shana tova,
I hope you're feeling a lot better, Sam.
Let me just add something about the Netanyahu demo in Montreal, albeing based on limited experience. I was present during the first two hours, before there was any violence, as part of the Women in Black contingent. Women in Black was there to protest the occupation, not to try to prevent Benajamin Netanyahu from speaking. [...]
11178 155 43_Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal0_23_stuhlman@mindspring.com31_Thu, 12 Sep 2002 20:25:17 -0400352_- Maybe I'm just nitpicking, but...
Why is what the Israelis are doing called an "occupation" and when the Jordanians governed the West Bank and the Egyptians governed Gaza no one was considered "occupied"? Does this mean that if the Israelis ceded the land to Jordan and Egypt, that the Palestinians would no longer be "under occupation?" [...]
11334 101 43_Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 08:55:37 +0200380_iso-8859-1 I find it very interesting that Women in Black have begun demonstrating against the Palestinian occupation of the Land of Israel. Truly, a positive development. shana tova, pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal [...]
11436 60 43_Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 06:35:50 -0400459_us-ascii purpleroot8@netscape.net wrote:
> hello and shana tova, > > I hope you're feeling a lot better, Sam. > > Let me just add something about the Netanyahu demo in Montreal, > albeing based on limited experience. I was present during the first > two hours, before there was any violence, as part of the Women in Black > contingent. Women in Black was there to protest the occupation, not to > try to prevent Benajamin Netanyahu from speaking. [...]
11497 162 43_Tom Friedman 9/11/02 NYTimes: Noah and 9/1112_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:31:47 +0200603_iso-8859-1 9/11 for Habonet Thomas Friedman’s article struck up a responsive chord in me too; particularly the following lines: It gives us the credibility to say to the Muslim world: Where have you been since 9/11? Where are your voices of reason? You humbly open all your prayers in the name of a God of mercy and compassion. But when members of your faith, acting in the name of Islam, murdered Americans or committed suicide against “infidels,” your press extolled them as martyrs and your spiritual leaders were largely silent. Other than a few ritual condemnations, they offered no outcry in [...]
11660 82 23_Yom Kippur and the Lady0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:24:41 EDT419_US-ASCII After the Yom Kippur war I wrote this. One of our officers got to Philon before we did and took a bunch of kids from course Makim out to do battle with our tanks. The were caught in an ambush and and 23 out 25 died. Our Lieutenant survived without a scratch. I had the chuzpah to ask him what it is like to think you are going to die. Boy did he want to talk! May we all be inscribed in the book of life. [...]
11743 40 27_Re: Yom Kippur and the Lady0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:37:13 EDT277_US-ASCII Sam, thanks for sharing the lyrics to a "Lady in Paisley" with everyone. It is actually my favorite cut on the CD....well, maybe one other song rates higher since it pulls at my sentimental heart strings, but that doesn't count :-).
Gmar Hatima Tova,
Ken
11784 829 34_Fwd: hand in hand Jerusalem school12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:51:34 +0200339_us-ascii
>Haverim/ot
I'm forwarding a e-letter from our daugter-in-law, Wendy with her take on the recent commemoration for the victims of 9/11/ in NY. The attachment is safe it is a photo of the kids. If you have children or grandchildren of 4th grade age they might want to take the picture to show their classmates. [...]
12614 45 33_Re: hand in hand Jerusalem school0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com29_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:56:33 EDT432_US-ASCII Amnon I sent the letter (and the picture attachment) to David Horovitz at the Report with a short note explaining how it might be worth reporting on.
Hiam Simon - Director of Advertising Jerusalem Post / Jerusalem Report Phone: (212) 625-4802 Fax: (212) 226-1940 Doing business without advertising, is like winking at a girl in the dark. You know what you are doing but nobody else does. Stewart Henderson Britt 1956
12660 23 27_Re: Yom Kippur and the Lady0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 13 Sep 2002 19:48:21 EDT496_US-ASCII Sam, Since hearing that you had surgery, etc, I've been asking Dennis how things are going for you and he says you typically don't put much personal information out on the airways. So, not for the world, but for me...how are you? We made a real connection when first introduced and while i don't get involved in the network conversations, I have been thinking about you. Feel free to reach me at mlerner@hospiecny.organd meanwhile know that I play the old CD and think of you. [...]
12684 95 74_Fwd: [Amnon] [amriv@netvision.net.il] has sent you an article from Haaretz12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:56:34 +0200647_us-ascii Haverot/im ARMS AND THE MAN By Dalia Karpel David Elazar: While defense minister Moshe Dayan emerged unscathed after the Yom Kippur War, Elazar's career was finished. A few hours before the Passover seder in 1976, David ("Dado") Elazar called the novelist Hanoch Bartov and told him that the time had come. Two years earlier, the state commission of inquiry, headed by the president [...]
12780 375 37_More about anti-Semitism at Concordia11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Sat, 14 Sep 2002 20:12:12 -0500530_us-ascii Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 23:17:31 +0000 Subject: [Jewish_Action_Alerts] Chaos on a college campus
Concordia: A campus in conflict
Tensions between Arab, Jewish students poison atmosphere at Montreal university
By INGRID PERITZ AND TU THANH HA
Saturday, September 14, 2002 Page A1 Globe and Mail
MONTREAL -- It doesn't take much to spark a fight between Arab and Jewish students at Concordia University these days. Sometimes food will suffice. [...]
13156 17 27_To all who write and "lurk"0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:26:45 EDT440_US-ASCII To all- "g'mar chatimah tovaH'-- sue(sie) liberman
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13174 48 13_one last time0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Sun, 15 Sep 2002 15:37:44 EDT249_US-ASCII Chevrei Habonet,
Perhaps all our talk of peace, no matter what our individual approaches have been, will serve to bring it closer.
Gmar Chatima Tova.
--Brian ----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com
13223 24 5_peace16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:16:35 -0400648_us-ascii In Habonet 2354, Brian Cooper wrote
Brian, from your mouth to God's ears. Or as our Muslim friends would observe, "inshallah."
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13248 58 21_Bernard Lewis article13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 16 Sep 2002 18:37:29 +0200353_windows-1255 I hope that everyone who fasted had an easy one. If you'd like a little intellectual stimulation after the Holy Day, check out this fine, if long, article by historian Bernard Lewis which traces the roots of Islamic antipathy to the West and the roots of Islamic terrorism. http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/011119fa_FACT2
Jon
13307 168 47_FW: CAMERA Alert: Call In to C-Span Sun. 9:30am11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:38:23 -0700262_US-ASCII
-----Original Message----- From: Search4news@aol.com [mailto:Search4news@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 1:55 AM To: kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com Subject: Fwd: CAMERA Alert: Call In to C-Span Sun. 9:30am
13476 69 52_FW: please act immediately - 10 seconds of your time11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:47:15 -0700532_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 6:47 PM To: Dan Sline; Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; David Remis; Elly Krapek; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: Fw: please act immediately - 10 seconds of your time
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ran Yaniv" To: Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 11:39 AM Subject: Fwd: please act immediately - 10 seconds of your time [...]
13546 37 51_Re: FW: CAMERA Alert: Call In to C-Span Sun. 9:30am0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 16 Sep 2002 17:51:25 EDT163_US-ASCII Steve.........this came to me as an attachment. I NEVER open attachments.
Could you please send it in the body of your email instead?
Debbie
13584 119 31_The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:16:52 EDT605_US-ASCII Judy
You should check out the work of Larwence Kohlberg a Jewish guy from Harvard who did the amazing work on moral development. Although he followed in Piaget's footsteps he was a giant. Kohlberg got a painful disease and killed himself. So sad. His collaborator Carol Gilligan carried the work a step further and talked about how women develop different morally then men. Her book "In a Different Voice" became an icon of women's movement and that surprised all us psychologists who were just trying to pass tests and write papers. Today there is a whole society of moral education [...]
13704 52 17_LZA Press Release10_Josh Cohen22_mazkir@habonimdror.org31_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:28:12 -0400701_US-ASCII LABOR ZIONIST ALLIANCE CRITICIZES ISRAEL'S INTERIOR MINISTER FOR STRIPPING CITIZENSHIP OF ISRAELI ARAB SUSPECT
The Labor Zionist Alliance criticized Israel Interior Minister Eli Yishai for stripping Israeli Arab Nihad Abu Kishk, a suspect in aiding a suicide bombing, of his citizenship.
LZA President Jeffry V. Mallow said: "Mr. Kishk has been indicted for the crime of abetting terror. If convicted, we hope he spends the maximum amount of time in jail. But stripping him of Israeli citizenship is completely inappropriate. No Israeli Jew, including those accused and convicted of heinous crimes, has been subjected to this punishment. Minister Yishai is [...]
13757 123 22_letter from Josh Cohen13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il55_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:11:02 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)588_iso-8859-1 Josh, this is an extract from the letter that you sent.
The Labor Zionist Alliance criticized Israel Interior Minister Eli Yishai for stripping Israeli Arab Nihad Abu Kishk, a suspect in aiding a suicide bombing, of his citizenship.
My reaction to Eli Yishai is 'kol hakavod'. It's about time that something positive was done to Israel's traitors. To be even handed, I would do the same thing to Jewish traitors. You see, I don't discriminate. Perhpas the Labor Zionist Alliance should consider how many innocent lives are lost because of traitorous action. [...]
13881 28 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:28:36 EDT564_US-ASCII Sam, Judy, Don't mean to butt in, but there -- I did.
I had a friend here in Syracuse, Arnie Goldstein who wrote a shelf of books on youth violence, gangs, etc. He developed an area of "prosocial training" and lectured around the world before his death this spring from cancer. It doesn't seem an exact fit, but a Google search of his name should provide some interesting reference points. I'm not certain about the direct application to gender specific development of morality, but he certainly talks about the Testosterone violence linkage. [...]
13910 61 35_re:-The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:02:57 EDT627_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/17/02 2:29:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DLerner569@aol.com writes:
I will take a look for that reference. The real hero in social cognition is Robert Selman also Jewish and also from Harvard. Selman developed a whole theory of social cognitive development. He then took troubled kids and put them in play therapy. But this was not ordinary play therapy. He would pair two kids up and they would play together. One generally was bossy and aggressive the other one submissive. Over the course of several years, they would gradually learn to negotiate and develop a shared understanding. [...]
13972 26 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:06:31 EDT485_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/17/02 8:24:15 AM, Smfgrappa@aol.com writes:
<< we need more women in positions of power. That is based on the hard science of morality. >>
Funny- we were just discussing this last night at the break-fast at our house- how- if there were more women in power- there would be less war ( but that has been challenegd too)...But there is no doubt that men and women are wired differently...."Mars-Venus"- etc. etc. & so forth..susie [...]
13999 20 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:09:44 EDT642_US-ASCII Deb Levenstein should have something to say about this- The interesting thing is that there are many shelters for women and children who are fleeing violent households- but I have never heard of one for men..does that say something? or am I ignorant?..susie
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
14020 67 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:54:10 EDT387_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/17/02 6:11:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LiberHawke@aol.com writes:
> Deb Levenstein should have something to say about this- The interesting > thing > is that there are many shelters for women and children who are fleeing > violent households- but I have never heard of one for men..does that say > something? or am I ignorant?..susie > [...]
14088 31 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:24:40 -0400481_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:
> Deb Levenstein should have something to say about this- The interesting thing > is that there are many shelters for women and children who are fleeing > violent households- but I have never heard of one for men..does that say > something? or am I ignorant?..susie
Not to make light of a serious topic, but perhaps the men don't ask for help - like with driving directions? Or they are embarrassed to admit they are battered? [...]
14120 40 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 20:31:43 EDT188_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/17/02 8:25:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
> the answer is caucasian men.
No, not caucasian men, just plain men
14161 18 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:29:04 EDT401_US-ASCII Duh, men? Dennis
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
14180 20 35_Re: The Agnostic Aetheist- to Amnon0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:32:25 EDT546_US-ASCII That's the problem... plain men. We need some verve, some edge. Suits, ties, jeans, come on. We need to join the party. Anybody up for polka dot leotards? Dennis
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
14201 48 12_Harvard Jews16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 04:38:15 -0400467_us-ascii In Habonet 2356, Sam Flesher writes that
> You wonder when there are so many bright Jewish guys in Boston producing ideas of value > Sam overlooks that Carol Gilligan is also Jewish. But she's left the vineyards of Harvard for the greener pastures and greater $$$ of New York University. Having taken her moral development course as a graduate student many years ago, I can say with some certainty that Washington Square's gain is also Harvard's gain.
14250 236 39_Men in Power - from the Daily Telegraph13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:49:12 +0200354_windows-1255 Demented world of men in power, by Robin Cook's former wife By Auslan Cramb, Scotland Correspondent (Filed: 18/09/2002)
The former wife of Robin Cook, the Leader of the House of Commons, has followed up her excoriating, autobiographical account of her failed marriage with a book on "the demented world of men in power". [...]
14487 93 16_Re: Harvard Jews0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 08:50:05 EDT594_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/18/02 4:36:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, EliD@worldnet.att.net writes:
> > In Habonet 2356, Sam Flesher writes that > >> You wonder when there are so many bright Jewish guys in Boston producing >> ideas of value > > Sam overlooks that Carol Gilligan is also Jewish. But she's left the > vineyards of Harvard for the greener pastures and greater $$$ of New York > University. Having taken her moral development course as a graduate > student many years ago, I can say with some certainty that Washington > Square's > gain is also Harvard's gain. [...]
14581 41 35_Fw:Jacob's 75 websites about Sukkot7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 17 Sep 2002 23:05:29 +0200603_iso-8859-1
> Hi Everyone! > > Sukkot is the Jewish holiday that commemorates how protective > "Clouds of Glory" surrounded the Jewish people after leaving > Egypt during the forty years of wandering in the desert. It > also commemorates how the Jews lived in temporary dwellings > during that same time. > Sukkot begins Friday evening, September 20th and continues > until Sunday, September 29th 2002. > (In Israel, ends Saturday night, September 28.) > > I posted on my website 75 links about Sukkot, > ranging from laws and customs to games and recipes. > Site languages include English, [...]
14623 110 26_FW: WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:40:15 -0700637_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:44 PM To: Dan Sline; Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; David Remis; Elly Krapek; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: Fw: WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET
Can anyone confirm that this is really true? Marcia
WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET > > > > Anyone remember this?? It was 1987! > > > > At a lecture the other day they were playing an old news video of Lt. > > Col. Oliver North testifying at the Iran-Contra hearings during the Reagan > > Administration. > > > > There was Ollie in front of [...]
14734 48 15_FW: PLEASE HELP11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 07:40:16 -0700647_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:38 PM To: Dan Sline; Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; David Remis; Elly Krapek; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: PLEASE HELP
> > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > > I have just read and signed the online petition: > > > > "Pursue and punish Palestinian violence at Concordia University" > > > > hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free online petition > > service, at: > > > > http://www.PetitionOnline.com/9902conc/ > > > > I personally agree with what this petition says, and I think [...]
14783 79 26_Re: WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:50:37 +0200495_iso-8859-1 Sorry Steve, the Ollie North - Bin Laden story is a hoax. See: http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/north.htm
As is the Mohammad Atta in Israel story. See: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blatta.htm
Whenever somebody sends me stories like these, especially in these tense times, I automatically check to see if they aren't one of the many "urban legends" floating around. A good web site for this kind of "bullshit detector" is Snopes.com at: http://www.snopes.com/ [...]
14863 125 43_Re: Men in Power - from the Daily Telegraph13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 10:56:00 -0400
14989 117 26_RE: WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 08:09:27 -0700519_iso-8859-1 Jonathon
Thank you for being vigilant!
Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Jonathan Baum Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:51 AM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET
Sorry Steve, the Ollie North - Bin Laden story is a hoax. See: http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/north.htm
As is the Mohammad Atta in Israel story. See: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blatta.htm [...]
15107 62 43_Re: Men in Power - from the Daily Telegraph13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:03:51 +0200539_iso-8859-1 Hi Judy. I agree. I also found the views of Margaret Cook in the article to be simplistic. What she also didn't bother to point out is that many of the women who were national leaders could be pretty aggressive as well: Margaret Thatcher and Indira Gandhi come to mind. In spite of her claims, I feel that the book is the work of a pissed-off ex. I simply wanted to add to the discussion and, perhaps, show how easy it can be to fall into stereotypes when it comes to discussions about gender. And now for a blonde joke... [...]
15170 44 16_Re: Harvard Jews0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 13:02:49 EDT626_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/18/02 5:51:22 AM, Smfgrappa@aol.com writes:
<< I do believe that Habonim and other zionist youth movements were and perhaps are still excellent models of how to promote moral development. >>
This is an interesting topic- I was watching segments of the Dr. Phil show on Donahue the other night- and he mentioned the fact that while schools teach reading, math, etc..nobody teaches you how to be in a relationship, morality, or marriage- etc. ( except perhaps in college courses known a s Mickey Mouse ones)... While it is true that schools can not teach everything, and [...]
15215 20 22_Simplistic stereotypes0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 13:12:08 EDT628_US-ASCII First we had AA now SS??...(oops- bad initials)....( isn't there always some truth in stereotypes?- although I don't like to think we adhere to that- it's another big can of worms...and why is opening a can of worms so disgusting anyway).....s
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
15236 35 16_RE: Harvard Jews4_Meir21_meir_h@maccabi.org.il31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 20:24:07 +0200392_windows-1255 Which brings me again to the reasons why I started the "School of Love". BTW I'll be opening a group in a Matnas called Beiteinu in Haifa twice a month for exactly this purpose. The first gathering will be on the 5th of Oct.
Meir
> the fact that while schools teach > reading, math, etc..nobody teaches you how to be in a > relationship, morality, or marriage [...]
15272 27 20_Love is a scary word0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 14:20:03 EDT619_US-ASCII I applaud Meir for his attempts at "tikkun olam"- The problem is that "love" is so scary ( why?)...it means really hearing listening- and taking a real interest in the other (person, nationality, etc)..and too often people are so self-involved that this "extension" into the realm of another is too risky when you can be "safe" staying "inside"-- Too bad World leaders don't have a world college where they can take courses in "Lovemaking for the Entire World"--maybe someone should think about that- and then there could be a growth in respect and understanding rather than war and destructive behavior. [...]
15300 86 42_[JIA Memo] The Root of All Conflict: Water7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 18:55:02 +0200570_iso-8859-1 thought this might be of interest to people on the list. As long as I remember -- from the 50's -- there was a serious worry that we would eventually have war here over the Arab efforts to divert the sources of the Jordan River. The problem is in all the Arab countries, not just here. Turkey has abundant water resources and Israel is evidently going to import water from Turkey to help overcome our present shortage. We are supplying Jordan with water and can not lower the amount we supply her with without causing a diplomatic crisis. Meanwhile, you [...]
15387 54 24_RE: Love is a scary word4_Meir21_meir_h@maccabi.org.il31_Thu, 19 Sep 2002 01:19:48 +0200508_windows-1255 Yes - "love" IS a scary word. At one time in my life I wanted to stay away from the term because of it's vagueness. However I did a turn about and now promote the idea of caring for others, of mutual respect. And I use it in ALL endeavors. You know that if there is a peace agreement and there is NO trust, it doesn't matter what is in the agreement. It won't work. And if there IS trust (another "milder" form of love) then it ALSO doesn't matter. It WILL work. So the idea is not to work [...]
15442 44 24_Re: Love is a scary word0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:26:06 EDT306_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/18/02 3:22:42 PM, meir_h@maccabi.org.il writes:
<< So the idea is not to work on the "agreement" or at least to leave that to those that have been elected, but to work on the trust. And there ARE many many organizations that are trying to do just that. >> [...]
15487 48 16_Re: Harvard Jews0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Thu, 19 Sep 2002 13:45:58 EDT633_US-ASCII Sue, I'm sure of where to stick my finger here.
There are many threads in your posting. The one that caught my attention had to do with teaching about morality, relationships, etc. While there has been a great deal of progress in our understanding of developmental brain wiring, and the process dynamics of interpersonal relationships, and while I think that it is critical that public schools and preschools provide training in all these essential life-skill areas, since the post-60's generation libertarians eschewed passing on what they had learned from their parents, so know we have a large portion of our [...]
15536 26 16_Re: Harvard Jews0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:08:04 EDT432_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/19/02 10:46:50 AM, DLerner569@aol.com writes:
<< Children need to know that moral behavior is a societal expectation and basic to the social contract. >>
I agree 100% with this- but go and tell that to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, who educate children with an extremely different set of values attached to an extremely horrible social contract ( in my own humble opinion)....sue [...]
15563 56 12_Harvard Jews0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:29:41 EDT335_US-ASCII This is an interesting personal expectations. It would be good for people to read the research on this point. This is not about skill development but about human development. Just as proper nutrition supports physical development, we can give young people experiences that will promote moral development. The data is in. [...]
15620 29 16_Re: Harvard Jews0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:04:00 EDT515_US-ASCII Sam, Is there a commonly/universally excepted definition of what 'moral development' encompasses? What values? what definitions of right and wrong? I understand that there a span of time in young children when their brains become hardwired with respect to a sense of others and the relationship of ones self to others. Notions of sharing, and belonging, good behavior and bad. My point is who's definitions fill in those blanks in those wired up little brains, and who gets to make the choice? Dennis [...]
15650 17 28_Re: ??????: sign your posts!0_16_Aborciah@aol.com29_Fri, 20 Sep 2002 04:08:41 EDT393_US-ASCII
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
15668 38 36_Little peope and morality- to Dennis0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:23:15 EDT606_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/19/02 6:04:03 PM, DLerner569@aol.com writes:
<< My point is who's definitions fill in those blanks in those wired up little brains, and who gets to make the choice? Dennis
PS Isn't there also some research that shows that if these little brains are left in a benign environment to wire themselves, they naturally develop some sophisticated notions of right and wrong and respect and self? >> Yes- that is the point- while there may be some universal values of morality (I won't kill you because then you won't be there for me)....we see this is the [...]
15707 16 16_Previous Message0_16_Aborciah@aol.com31_Fri, 20 Sep 2002 15:50:08 -0400600_iso-8859-1 I just noticed a non-message e-mail sent under my address. That is obviously a "message" to me to try to go through e-mail when I'm conscious! Must have pressed the wrong "button" in my somnolent state....sorry...
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
15724 224 33_Only Place in the Middle East ...12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 21 Sep 2002 14:39:10 +0200422_us-ascii Haverot/im
The author of the article below looks at a new Israeli film and asks about Israeli soldiers: "They are what has been taking shape here during the past generation: democracy under siege. An isolated open society in an ocean of dictators. The only place in the Middle East where men can love men and women can love women, and where individuals and misfits and minorities have certain rights. [...]
15949 180 28_Jewish university presidents3_leo18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Sat, 21 Sep 2002 15:38:26 +0200149_us-ascii Can anyone give me a list of current presidents of major U.S. universities who are Jewish? (Or tell me how to find it)
L. Diesendruck
16130 207 32_Re: Jewish university presidents6_livney20_livney@barkai.org.il31_Sat, 21 Sep 2002 18:02:03 +0200425_iso-8859-1 Just a thought, but how about the main office of the Hillel Foundations,(aren't they a part of B'nai Brith?) or the American Jewish Yearbook(if it's still being printed). -------------------------------- Avi and Bat7 Livney Kibbutz Barkai D.N. Menashe 37860 Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: leo To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 3:38 PM Subject: Jewish university presidents [...]
16338 100 47_FW: Man's Best Friend... A Bomber's Worst Enemy11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Sat, 21 Sep 2002 09:14:56 -0700408_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 1:42 PM To: Danny and Chantal Leven; Carol Nalin; Barry Szemere; Israel and Marlene Zakai; Bob and Barbara Fruitman; Max and Shelly Plager; Eileen Kelmanson; Avravraham and Malka Czyzyk; Geoff and Linda Remes Subject: Fw: Man's Best Friend... A Bomber's Worst Enemy [...]
16439 38 47_History of Dror Museum at Camp Gesher (Ontario)11_Jamie Levin20_jamielevin@trentu.ca31_Sat, 21 Sep 2002 13:35:21 -0400532_iso-8859-1 Machaneh Gesher has announced a plan to unveil a 'Museum of Gesher/Dror History' for its 40th anniversary celebrations. The display is slated to be opened during the summer of 2003 at Camp Gesher (Ontario). The display will likely be displayed in Toronto after the 2003 camping season.
The display will have multiple components including: the formation of Dror in Europe, Dror's contributions to pre-state Israel, the movements importance in Labour Zionist ideology, camping in North America, and the merger. [...]
16478 89 43_Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal0_24_purpleroot8@netscape.net31_Sat, 21 Sep 2002 18:29:38 -0400443_iso-8859-1 Shana Tova to you, too, Noam, and all the best to everyone in 5763. I just noticed your email, and I'll repond in capitol letters.
Shloime (Sol)
Noam Stopak wrote:
>Shana Tova Shlomie, > >I passed the original message on this thread to a friend >from my workshop with whom I've recently reconnected >who also lives in your troubled city. MONTREAL IS NOT A PARTICULARLY TROUBLED CITY. [...]
16568 253 32_Re: Jewish university presidents29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Sat, 21 Sep 2002 19:41:56 -0400430_iso-8859-1 Livney?!?!?! Well hello there! it's nice to see your names after all these years. i hear from varda that you're well, etc. just thought i'd pop in to say hey!
esther cohen (not the galil one!) varda's buddy from mb yd, workshop mosh 70-75+ washington, dc ----- Original Message ----- From: livney To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Jewish university presidents [...]
16822 294 32_Re: Jewish university presidents6_livney20_livney@barkai.org.il31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:16:32 +0200510_iso-8859-1 Hi Esther, It's been a long time. How're you doin'? [ -------------------------------- Avi and Bat7 Livney Kibbutz Barkai D.N. Menashe 37860 Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 1:41 AM Subject: Re: Jewish university presidents
Livney?!?!?! Well hello there! it's nice to see your names after all these years. i hear from varda that you're well, etc. just thought i'd pop in to say hey! [...]
17117 38 4_Why?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 10:19:06 EDT287_US-ASCII Could one of the more hawkish, or more pro-Sharon members of this list, please inform me of what the point of exiling Arafat would be. Does anyone really think that the situation in the (occupied) territories will improve if he is forced to leave?
Just wondering, Richard
17156 134 43_Re: Palestinian extremists riot in Montreal11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 11:05:51 -0400563_us-ascii No need to shout Shloime - I can hear you just fine in mixed case.
purpleroot8@netscape.net wrote:
> Shana Tova to you, too, Noam, and all the best to > everyone in 5763. I just noticed your email, and > I'll repond in capitol letters. > > Shloime (Sol) > > Noam Stopak wrote: > > >Shana Tova Shlomie, > > > >I passed the original message on this thread to a friend > >from my workshop with whom I've recently reconnected > >who also lives in your troubled city. MONTREAL IS NOT A PARTICULARLY > TROUBLED CITY. > [...]
17291 140 8_Re: Why?13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il55_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:43:17 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)574_iso-8859-1
Richard, -------Original Message------- they should have gotten rid of Arafat some time ago. Maybe it won't help but it won't hurt. Just one less despot to worry about.
Moshe
From: habonet@shamash.org Date: Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:19:38 To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Why?
Could one of the more hawkish, or more pro-Sharon members of this list, please inform me of what the point of exiling Arafat would be. Does anyone really think that the situation in the (occupied) territories will improve if he is forced to leave? [...]
17432 30 8_Re: Why?0_15_Miceng4@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:47:01 EDT108_US-ASCII should get rid of arik sharon and george bush too..seeing as how they are both leading us into wars
17463 287 36_Ze'ev Schiff on Arafat and the siege13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:34:19 +0200387_windows-1255 Analysis / Operation Muqata 2
By Ze'ev Schiff
The defense establishment views Operation Muqata 2, which further tightens the siege on Yasser Arafat, as a further step toward removing him from leadership of the Palestinians since it has become clear he is impeding efforts for a cease-fire and reforms in the Palestinian Authority. [...]
17751 103 8_Re: Why?7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:51:08 +0200548_iso-8859-1 although I am not a hawk, I shall try to answer b'kitzur nimratz: 1. maybe those who propose his being exiled feel that with the Ra'is out of the picture then new leadership can develop to replace him. With him around, the potential leaders are afraid of being blown away. Leave him here and you have a power vacuum, because he has virtually lost all power and I, for one, do not know how much real influence he still has. 2. Exile him and you have another potential Arafat world tour, to build up popularity and power again and we [...]
17855 49 61_Deterence and Israel's reaction to an American Attack on Iraq11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 17:50:44 -0500722_us-ascii DETERRENCE AND ISRAEL'S REACTION TO AN AMERICAN ATTACK ON IRAQ
BY
DR. ROBERT O. FREEDMAN
As Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein continues to oppose free and unfettered UN inspections of suspected sites of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction(WMD), public attention has focused on the increasingly likely possibility of a US attack on Iraq,and possible retaliation by Iraq against Israel.What has received much less attention, however, is the possibility that not only Iraqi-allied Palestinian groups but also a heavily armed Hizbollah, with artillery positions in Lebanon near Israel's northern border, may join in the battle, thus putting Northern Israel in jeopardy. .How [...]
17905 506 33_In These Times * Fascists for Che16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 19:45:22 -040068_us-ascii
http://www.inthesetimes.com/issue/26/23/news1.shtml
18412 80 59_Fw: From Lawrence H. Summers, President, Harvard University12_Nancy Gordon11_ngg@cox.net31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 21:30:09 -0400379_iso-8859-1 ----- Original Message ----- From: FKlein3404@aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:29 AM To: RHW77@aol.com Subject: From Lawrence H. Summers, President, Harvard University
Go to: http://president.harvard.edu/speeches/2002/morningprayers.html
or click on the blue letters...
Speech: Address at morning prayers, 9/17/02
18493 42 40_FWD: Site/ Israeli Palestinian crossfire11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:43:23 -0500605_us-ascii http://bitterlemons.org/
About bitterlemons.org
Bitterlemons.org is a website that presents Israeli and Palestinian viewpoints on prominent issues of concern. It focuses on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and peace process, but other, related regional issues are also discussed. It is produced, edited and partially written by Ghassan Khatib, a Palestinian, and Yossi Alpher, an Israeli. Its goal is to contribute to mutual understanding through the open exchange of ideas. It aspires to impact the way Palestinians, Israelis and others worldwide think about regional issues. [...]
18536 137 41_FW: Be alert of Phone Scam PASS THIS ONE!11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:23:11 -0700545_us-ascii
-----Original Message----- From: Search4news@aol.com [mailto:Search4news@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:04 AM To: Search4news@aol.com Subject: Be alert of Phone Scam PASS THIS ONE!
FW: Subject: Phone Scam
I received a telephone call last evening from an individual identifying himself as an AT&T Service technician who was conducting a test on telephone lines. He stated that to complete the test I should touch nine(9), zero( 0), the pound sign (#), and then hang up. Luckily, [...]
18674 40 45_Re: FW: Be alert of Phone Scam PASS THIS ONE!0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 23:26:35 EDT310_US-ASCII This is sort of an urban legend. While POSSIBLE (if you need to dial "9" on your home phone to get an outside line) it is quite unlikely.
For further info, see http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/scams/jailcall.htm
Debbie
18715 55 45_Re: FW: Be alert of Phone Scam PASS THIS ONE!0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Sun, 22 Sep 2002 23:51:55 EDT341_US-ASCII Please do not forward these scam and virus messages to habonet. This one, and most others, have been circulating around and around the Internet for months and sometimes years. You can find lots of information about this one and others on the sites that Jon Baum has listed before, along with some that I've mentioned and more. [...]
18771 32 8_Re: Why?0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:31:05 EDT546_US-ASCII Richard, I don't know if I meet the criteria you set out for responders to your posting. I have no idea what exiling Arafat is for, but since you asked the question I try to suppose an answer. If Arafat isn't there he will take some of his lieutenants with him. A vacancy at the top of the PLO org chart will open up and I suspect there are many contenders. That might lead to internal struggle, death for some, diversion from the routines of war with Israel, either a clearly anti-Israel control (Hamas or Islamic Jihad) or a true [...]
18804 37 12_Stop the war0_13_Ezrox@aol.com31_Mon, 23 Sep 2002 14:27:42 -0400582_iso-8859-1
Here's a little Internet activism to help stop Bush's war drum.
B'shalom,
Ezra (Workshop 43)
>Subject: Prez Bush claims to want YOUR opinion on Iraq...Please call him! > > > >Please phone the White house at 202-456-1111 (between 9:00 AM [EST] and 5 > >PM Monday - Friday. A machine will detain you a moment and then an operator >will thank you for saying "I oppose" or I "approve of" the proposed war >against Iraq. > > >The president wants to know. Tell him. Time is running out. Send this > >e-mail to at least 5 people. Thank you!! > [...]
18842 19 29_Words to Hebrew songs/ A site11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:21:06 -0500558_us-ascii http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/moran2/
I hope some of you find this site enjoyable. It is in Hebrew, so you need to be able to "read" Hebrew in order to view this site.
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
18862 32 32_A Song for Sam A Splendid Bridge12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:00:03 +0200699_us-ascii Hi Sam, I got the words for this song, Shir Al Nehalim by Rahel Shapira from the link Roz Barland put on the list. http://www.angelfire.com/mo3/moran2/ The water in the springs/ Maintains its flow/Year after year/ Year after year./Chilling/Our burning feet,/But not the soul// Our arms entwine/Bridging streams/For innocence and hope/This pain/This accompanying pain,/This pain too/Belongs to love// People depart/Thinking to meet again,/And that is their aim,/And that is their aim./Some day we'll do it/ For there is a note in the heart,/The note in the heart/Carries the address.// Our arms intertwine/Like streams/Bridging streams/For innocence and hope/ This pain/This pain comes [...]
18895 602 31_FW: THE CANARY IN EUROPE'S MINE11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Tue, 24 Sep 2002 11:53:54 -0700650_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:45 PM To: Dan Sline; Doug and Renee Goldenberg-Schwartz; David Remis; Elly Krapek; Baruch Eichenbaum Subject: THE CANARY IN EUROPE'S MINE
THE CANARY IN EUROPE'S MINE > >This is really scary stuff, Read it very carefully and thoroughly. We >cannot allow this to continue. You MUST pass it on to as many people as >you know, so we can curb this hideous anti-Semitic wave and squelch it, >before it grows and engulfs us all. > >THE CANARY IN EUROPE'S MINE - by Jeff Jacoby >The Boston Globe April 28, [...]
19498 36 16_A day with Batya0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:39:21 EDT515_US-ASCII The voice was the same. After 25+ some years, I recognized her as the zany chanicha from Galil who always had laughter around her. Batya arrived only a couple of weeks ago to start a two-year stint as shlicha to the Aliyah desk here in Los Angeles. We made a date ( on Sukkot, of course) to go to a movie and spend the day. I went to pick her up and off we went to the beach for lunch at a lovely restaurant by the sea...We walked a little on the boardwalk watching and enjoying the craziness of mime [...]
19535 122 44_Why the anti-semitism?/ Why the pro-Arabism?11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:22:29 -0700542_iso-8859-1 When you are on this planet long enough, you start putting things together, in order to make some sense out of them. These are all little pieces of a jig-saw puzzle, and sometimes it just takes a while to see where they fit. One of those pieces presented itself to me in 1963, as I was doing some research in my college library. During a study break, I picked up the reference book sitting on the table just in front of me. Scientific Abstracts from the year 1939. A random opening of this tome revealed an article on a study [...]
19658 93 11_Transformed0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:21:28 EDT432_US-ASCII Amnon Hi
Thank you so much for thinking of me. It is nice to see a song lyric that is poetry and not just catchy hooks and things. I will re read it. I forwarded the other one you sent me to Aviva Tauman my buddy from Chicago who also knows you and she loved it. He is a lyric of mine off the new album. Its kind of spiritual ---kind of poetic. More like an Israeli song than top 40. Its called ---Transformed. [...]
19752 22 8_to steve0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:27:10 EDT446_US-ASCII Steve --- check out "the mismeasure of man" by S.J. Gould and you may discovered why Jews were kept out of the US from 1920 to 1945. Jewish immigrants during the first world war tested as mentally retarded on the Army Intelligence test because among other things they could not name famous pitchers in the American League. How silly. Conclusion of the psychology profession --- Einstein was the exception that proves the rule. [...]
19775 45 48_Re: Why the anti-semitism?/ Why the pro-Arabism?0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Sep 2002 11:02:26 EDT547_US-ASCII Steve- I got my first taste of "Anti-Semitism" at age 7 while walking to shul dressed as Haman. Our neighborhood had begun to "change" from being predominantly Jewish to a mix and some older kids saw me walking alone and started yelling "It ain't Halloween" then proceded to throw stones at me- one of which hit me in the head and I fell down. A kind person swooped me up and carried me off to shul where I was treated with a mercuricrome Magen David on my forehead, and then went on to celebrate Purim at the annual carnival. Years [...]
19821 18 36_Re: A Song for Sam A Splendid Bridge0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:13:20 EDT476_US-ASCII This was a beautiful thought and beautiful song/poem....and a thank you also to Roz...susie
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
19840 32 59_From Pirkei Avot:Making our own music- a plug for Sam et al0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 25 Sep 2002 14:43:32 EDT410_US-ASCII Al shlosha d'varim haolam omed: 1- Sam's songs: you can order Grappa cd's from Sam directly at smfgrappa@aol.com (you can hear samples at www.MP3.com-Grappa) 2. Amnon's weekly portions 3. Venues for plugging: Micha -my youngest son also has a band- Milot HaNefesh- the sound is a Goerge Winston/Paul SImon sound for original Henrew and Jewish music..you can "visit" this at www.milothanefesh.com [...]
19873 280 23_Summer of 2009, a story11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 07:19:57 -0500675_ISO-8859-1
From: "Dr. Judith Jacobson" Subject: The Summer of 2009 (A Story)
The Summer of 2009 (A Story) Steven Plaut 23 September 2002
It was a bright, sunny day in the summer of 2009.
It was in that period when the monthly death toll from Oslo passed its 1100 mark. The four remaining Knesset Members of the Israeli Labor Party were calling for more goodwill gestures by Israel and concessions to the PLO. Meretz and Peace Now were demanding that Israel seriously consider the latest peace offer from the Palestinians to convert Israel into a web site. Meanwhile, the Americans [...]
20154 312 19_LISTSERV REPENTANCE11_Bruce Arbit17_BARBIT@abdata.com31_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:52:26 -0500473_iso-8859-1 LISTSERV REPENTANCE
For the sin we have committed in posting copyrighted material to the listserv,
and for the sin we have committed by forwarding virus warnings, NEA appeals, and dying child requests.
For the sin we have committed in harshly judging other List members by their spelling or use of punctuation, [...]
20467 51 23_Re: LISTSERV REPENTANCE14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:56:43 +0200159_iso-8859-1 Bruce - a wonderful bit of brightness.... you just missed Yom Kippur by a few days. And I will truely try to repent my listsins.
Dave Holtzer
20519 171 27_Fw: Summer of 2009, a story13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 20:47:23 +0200558_ISO-8859-1
I have to admit that I always suffer a pang of discomfort whenever I read a column by Steven Plaut. Steve was my madrich when I was in the ken in Philly in 1969-70. Our kvutza told him at the beginning of the year that we felt deficient in our theoretical Zionist background, and so he guided us through the entire "Zionist Idea", covering every major thinker, with special attention paid to A. D. Gordon and Ber Borochov, in a series of brilliant sichot over the course of our year between KM Bet and Machaneh Bonim. He was also the [...]
20691 31 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:17:13 -0400599_- Thank you, Jon, for some background about Steven Plaut. It is interesting to learn that he has a Habonim background.
A few years ago, Steve joined to a left-leaning Jewish mailing list I was on and sent many, many vicious messages about individuals on the list. Before he was unsubbed by the list-master, he somehow managed to get his own copy of the e-mail addresses of the list-members. For several months thereafter, he continued to spam the list-members. He finally dropped me from his hate list when I e-mailed the postmaster at the university through whose system he was sending [...]
20723 71 63_Re: From Pirkei Avot:Making our own music- a plug for Sam et al0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 14:22:20 EDT429_US-ASCII Thank you Sue for this nice plug .
Wow
Here is a direct link to my last CD. Just click. Thanks again.
MP3.com - Grappa
As for the Stuff from the 60's i suppose I can make copies for those who want.
Thanks again Sam
In a message dated 9/25/02 2:44:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LiberHawke@aol.com writes: [...]
20795 18 63_Re: From Pirkei Avot:Making our own music- a plug for Sam et al0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 15:40:00 EDT519_US-ASCII No problem, Sam- hey how do you make a website a link in an email? I never learned how to do that--COuld someone explain it? Thanks..s
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
20814 19 54_OK I Lied about shutting up!--re: Israeli/Jewish films0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:17:58 EDT597_US-ASCII Does anyone know of any sources aside from Montral and Baltimore and Boston and San Fran for Jewish and Israeli films which are available to be screened at a festival?/......You can email me dreictly- thanks- SUe
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ , and a co-sponsor of http://MyJewishLearning.com ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
20834 27 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:24:38 -0400417_us-ascii Dear David-
I too knew Steve in my youth and find the transformation from Habonim madrich to Arutz 7 editorialist chilling. Like you , I think it is frightening and irresponsible to spin a fantasy that could incite acts of violence in one's readers. However, I don't think it helps the tone on this listserve to relate negative stories about the behavior of someone we know on another listserve. [...]
20862 92 63_Re: From Pirkei Avot:Making our own music- a plug for Sam et al0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 26 Sep 2002 19:27:25 EDT549_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/26/02 5:10:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LiberHawke@aol.com writes:
> No problem, Sam- hey how do you make a website a link in an email? I never > learned how to do that--COuld someone explain it? Thanks..s
__________________________________________________-
Sam replies In AOL, 1. Set up your message 2. Put the cursor where you want the link 3. Go to the Website using AOL as the browser 4. Take the little heart in the corner of the Webstite 5. Grab it and pull it into your message [...]
20955 35 63_Re: From Pirkei Avot:Making our own music- a plug for Sam et al12_Karen Fisher23_pkfisher19@peoplepc.com31_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 08:29:20 -0400348_iso-8859-1 Sue. I think that I can help. If you are on a web site that you like, go to the tool bar that has the send, print etc blocks. There should be one with an envelope and stationary picture. hit that, and there should be a drop down that says send a link. hit on that and when you get an e-mail just type in your address, and hit send. [...]
20991 51 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 10:06:06 +0200476_iso-8859-1 Judy, there are a lot of us in Israel, graduates of Habonim, who find the transformation of Habonim very "chilling," as you put it. Habonim has changed far more than we it's graduates have changed.
On a positive note: Rabbi Plaut, who I believe was his father, gave Queens Habonim a room for our activities when I asked for it -- support that was not forthcoming from other places, and which gave us the possibility of ken expansion at that time. pearl [...]
21043 34 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 11:06:50 -0400381_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:
> Judy, there are a lot of us in Israel, graduates of Habonim, who find the > transformation of Habonim very "chilling," as you put it. Habonim has > changed far more than we it's graduates have changed.
Hi Pearl,
I wonder if you could be more clear about what you see as "the transformation of Habonim" that you find so chilling? [...]
21078 58 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:02:30 EDT473_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/27/02 8:07:34 AM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
<< wonder if you could be more clear about what you see as "the transformation of Habonim" that you find so chilling?
I have a hard time believing that the movement which inspired my parents to Aliyah ever advocated bombings in city centers. I certainly saw no evidence of this when exploring the trove of old chinuch tochniot that once lived in the sifriah at Mosh. >> [...]
21137 67 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:12:40 -0400512_us-ascii Dear Pearl,
Steve Plaut is from Philly and, as far as I know, his dad wasn't a rabbi.
On changes in Habonim--my kids are actively involved and I am on both the Moshava Camp Committee and the Habonim Dror Foundation Board so I am pretty up to date on what is going on. I don't agree with everything the vaada votes out, but I think that the amount of change I see is in no way "chilling". Actually, it is rather inspiring to see what kids are doing and thinking in Habonim these days. [...]
21205 47 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:45:25 EDT597_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/27/02 12:12:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gelman@erols.com writes:
> I don't agree with everything the vaada votes out, > but I think that the amount of change I see is in no way "chilling".
I find myself actually agreeing with some who I seldom agree with on this one. I think that many of the changes in Habonim, which I believe have come about as a result of votes in vaada, are indeed chilling. Workshop, as I understand it, has become little more than a college course and puritanical changes concerning drugs and alcohol have resulted [...]
21253 70 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 16:55:55 -0400548_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote in part:
> ... > > I can not speak for Pearl, but I suppose some of us Alte kakers are sometimes > a little shocked at the fact that now it is very kosher to critique Israel's > policies, while growing up in the tnuah, and on workshop, there could be no > wrongs done coming out of the Jewish State ( except- during those times, the > treatment of the Sephardim and others who came from Eastern and Oriental > countries)....And now, it is open territory- and the problem we face is > twofold. While we [...]
21324 129 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 18:25:11 EDT419_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/27/02 1:57:37 PM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:
<< I find many echos of my views both in the Israeli press and among habonet chevre who live in Israel, so I do not feel your statements about those of us who sit on our tushes in the US to be germaine to the discussion, nor at 43 do I feel that I'm not an alte kaker, at least relative to current members of the movement. [...]
21454 72 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 19:53:03 EDT524_US-ASCII Dear Judy.
I am from Philly and I do not remember Steve. I kind of know what going on in Habonim and I do not find it chilling. I find Arutz 7 more than chilling and totally out of touch with any of the movement values I learned. I don't think this is a close call. People wander off from their roots. Those who have wandered off from to radical right in Israel may look at us and find us chilling. They should not fool themselves into thinking that they are in touch with the values the learned in the [...]
21527 61 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_14_Ohanka@aol.com29_Fri, 27 Sep 2002 21:14:02 EDT572_US-ASCII
In a message dated 9/27/02 12:11:32 PM, gelman@erols.com writes:
<< Dear Pearl,
Steve Plaut is from Philly and, as far as I know, his dad wasn't a rabbi.
On changes in Habonim--my kids are actively involved and I am on both the Moshava Camp Committee and the Habonim Dror Foundation Board so I am pretty up to date on what is going on. I don't agree with everything the vaada votes out, but I think that the amount of change I see is in no way "chilling". Actually, it is rather inspiring to see what kids are doing and thinking [...]
21589 80 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 08:57:10 EDT406_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/27/02 12:04:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LiberHawke@aol.com writes:
> I can not speak for Pearl, but I suppose some of us Alte kakers are > sometimes > a little shocked at the fact that now it is very kosher to critique > Israel's > policies, while growing up in the tnuah, and on workshop, there could be no > > wrongs done coming out of the Jewish State [...]
21670 46 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 09:29:53 EDT316_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/27/2002 9:15:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ohanka@aol.com writes:
> I don't usually get involved in these debates, being uninterested in > attempting to change people's minds.
This statement actually says, "I'm not open to having my own mind changed."
Dennis
21717 94 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 09:45:10 -0400571_us-ascii Please distinguish your remarks from those you quote from others. I do not wish anyone to be misled to believe that I espouse many of the views interspersed with my own comments below.
Thank you,
Noam
LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 9/27/02 1:57:37 PM, stopak@orionsci.com writes: > > << > I find many echos of my views both in the Israeli press and among > habonet chevre who live in Israel, so I do not feel your statements > about those of us who sit on our tushes in the US to be germaine > to the discussion, [...]
21812 50 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 12:21:47 EDT370_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/28/2002 5:58:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, KBob24@aol.com writes:
> ) That said, I can only echo Hank's comments and say that I am thrilled that > my kids benefit from a Habonim camping experience, have visited/seen Israel > through "Habonim's eyes" and will be participating in fall seminar at Galil > next weekend. > > [...]
21863 23 40_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story- to Noam0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 12:41:11 EDT530_US-ASCII Noam- when I typed my answers, I used "italics" but for some reason they didn't translate while travelling through cyberspace..I don't understand why- except that at work, where we use macs, and we print out a newspaper once a month, when we get emailed articles, the quotation marks, apostrophes, and sometimes words get distorted. I "assumed" that the italics would show up- but apparently they don't translate and I apologfize- but I think anyone who reads the response can see the paragraph breaks....susie [...]
21887 117 16_NJ poet laureate16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 12:48:25 -0400519_us-ascii NJ gov. demands state poet quit over poem critical of Israel
That's the headline. But they really mean anti- Semitic. Just saw this disturbing item below from the Associated Press that appeared in Ha'aretz. It was news to me that Amiri Baraka was appointed "poet laureate" of New Jersey; more to the point, the poem cited repeats anti-Semitic [and internet-amplified] scam/hoax/rumor/allegation that thousands of Israelis were told in advance about the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center, etc. [...]
22005 31 42_"In Hollywood . . . . . Silence on Israel"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 10:28:44 -0700489_iso-8859-1 Habonetters
Today's Los Angeles Times brings us a well-analyzed article on the massive silence of the Jews in the movie industry, concerning any stand about Israel, much less a supportive one.
I apologise for not having the time to comment further, but I have to go to work.
The site is: www.calendarlive.com
I hope it works. The full title is: "In Hollywood, a small break in the Silence on Israel". Subtitle: "Jews in Hollywood Remain Quiet". [...]
22037 44 20_Re: NJ poet laureate0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 13:38:09 EDT303_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/28/02 12:46:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, EliD@worldnet.att.net writes:
> If people want to protest, a) it might make sense to > send letters [with copies to the Governor] to: >
What are you suggesting we protest, that the governor asked him to resign?
22082 46 20_Re: NJ poet laureate16_gelman@erols.com16_gelman@erols.com31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 14:47:29 -0400409_iso-8859-1 I would like to read the entire poem to see the context from which this excerpt was taken.
Hag Samayach! Judy Gelman
Original Message: ----------------- From: Richardrdsmith@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2002 13:38:09 EDT To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: NJ poet laureate
In a message dated 9/28/02 12:46:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, EliD@worldnet.att.net writes: [...]
22129 69 14_answer to Noam7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 19:01:06 +0200596_iso-8859-1 noam, 1. who exactly advocates bombings in city centers? 2. Habonim is not what I remember it to have been. I once was part of the national leadership, and I only mention this to emphasize that I know what I am talking about, and we would NEVER have done anything in contradiction to official Israeli government policy. We would never have contacted the New York City council (or whoever Habonim offices contacted recently) petitioning them to NOT close down the Palestinian offices in NYC. There were other letters and opinions voiced here in the past couple of years that would [...]
22199 43 11_rabbi plaut7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 19:08:47 +0200318_windows-1255 There are two Rabbi Plaut's -- or rather there were -- one in Queens and one in Toronto, whom I knew and was in contact with when I was a madricha and merakezet ken. I thought Steve was the son of the Queens rabbi who helped me in my work, but evidently he is from another branch of the same family. pearl
22243 514 34_Fw: Of interest to Habonim members7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 19:12:46 +0200558_iso-8859-1 Now here is something Habonim could address itself to.
----- Original Message ----- From: Kulanu To: kulanu@ubmail.ubalt.edu Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 11:27 PM Subject: Of interest to Kulanu members
AMERICANS FOR A SAFE ISRAEL/AFSI
1623 Third Ave., Suite 205,
New York, N.Y. 10128
Tel: 212-828-2424
Fax: 212-828-1717
afsi@rcn.com
Sept. 27 2002
Contact: Helen Freedman
AMERICANS FOR A SAFE ISRAEL/AFSI [...]
22758 52 15_answer to Pearl11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 17:31:00 -0400571_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:
> noam, > 1. who exactly advocates bombings in city centers?
The "chilling" (to me) article by Steve P. certainly seemed to indicate that bombings in the market in Nablus and elsewhere would be a good thing. Did you miss that point?
> > 2. Habonim is not what I remember it to have been. I once was part of the > national leadership, and I only mention this to emphasize that I know what I > am talking about, and we would NEVER have done anything in contradiction to > official Israeli government policy. We would never [...]
22811 294 43_Speech: Address at morning prayers, 9/17/0216_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 28 Sep 2002 22:02:35 -0400385_us-ascii I append the remarks given last week by former Treasury Secretary, now Harvard President Lawrence Summers at Mem Church's morning vespers. The remarks were made in response to anti-Semitic anti-Israel divestiture advocates. The firestorm that these remarks engendered is truly amazing given their moderate and temperate tone. What a bully pulpit is Harvard's presidency. [...]
23106 39 58_Re: OK I Lied about shutting up!--re: Israeli/Jewish films6_livney20_livney@barkai.org.il31_Sun, 29 Sep 2002 14:47:06 +0200513_iso-8859-1 In connection with your query concerning sources for Jewish and Israeli films for a film festival, we know a gal by the name of Ann Notes who has had experience in this area. her e-mail address is ANottes@aol.com -------------------------------- Avi and Bat7 Livney Kibbutz Barkai D.N. Menashe 37860 Israel ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 11:17 PM Subject: OK I Lied about shutting up!--re: Israeli/Jewish films [...]
23146 80 12_Gov't policy16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 29 Sep 2002 11:18:47 -0400600_us-ascii In Habonet 2367, Pearl writes that
> I once was part of the > national leadership, and I only mention this to emphasize that I know what I > am talking about, and we would NEVER have done anything in contradiction to > official Israeli government policy. > Pearl, times change and peoples' outlooks change. I, too, was once part of Habonim's national leadership--circa 1968-71 or thereabouts. I can vouch that we never felt constrained to criticize any governmental policy, US or Israeli. (Being a native born Beltway insider, I can't speak to the issue of NYC government, but I [...]
23227 44 16_Re: Gov't policy0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sun, 29 Sep 2002 12:57:09 EDT215_US-ASCII Go Elihu...........!!!!!!
In a message dated 9/29/02 11:17:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, EliD@worldnet.att.net writes:
> Pearl, times change and peoples' outlooks change
23272 67 19_Re: answer to Pearl7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 29 Sep 2002 07:43:17 +0200584_iso-8859-1 must have missed it because I did not read it. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 11:31 PM Subject: answer to Pearl
> Skolnik wrote: > > > noam, > > 1. who exactly advocates bombings in city centers? > > The "chilling" (to me) article by Steve P. certainly seemed to > indicate that bombings in the market in Nablus and elsewhere > would be a good thing. Did you miss that point? > > > > > 2. Habonim is not what I [...]
23340 57 31_Kindergarten Class of 2002 - 0312_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 29 Sep 2002 22:15:21 +0200454_us-ascii Haverim/ot Actually, the subject line could equally read Summer of 2009, a story Redux. That's how puerile I think the literary device of that agit/prop story aspires to. Here is a much needed antidote.
Light over the holidays Amnon _______________________________________________________________________
A LITTLE BOY...
Did you hear about the teacher who was helping one of her kindergarten students put on his boots? [...]
23398 99 16_Re: Gov't policy7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 29 Sep 2002 21:49:06 +0200570_ISO-8859-1 times change and peoples' outlooks change -- you write. Exactly, what I have said in the past. I changed my opinions and beliefs and was condemned as being "unHabonim." Worse: people tried to hound me off the list because my views and opinions changed and developed after moving to Israel and living the realty. They feel I no longer reflect what I myself taught a whole generation of Habonim chanichim. What I have realized is that there is more than one way and that Habonim is not the be all and end all. There are other movements and ideologies that [...]
23498 150 44_Fwd: [jwl] New Coalition Lobbying for Israel0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sun, 29 Sep 2002 17:55:03 EDT17_US-ASCII
23649 116 35_shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel0_12_SHX2@aol.com29_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 10:50:22 EDT554_UTF-8 Dear Habonet,
On July 30 the Washington Post reported on Page 1 that musical artists, especially American artists, were refusing to perform in Israel mostly because of their fear of violence and in some cases disapproval of Israeli policy. During previous times of peril, many artists flocked to Israel to lend palpable and emotional support. But not this time. Now while Israel is in its greatest need, cultural ambassadors capable of bringing inspiration and solidarity are instead reinforcing a feeling of international abandonment. [...]
23766 31 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel20_Naomi Goldberg Honor18_naomijgh@yahoo.com37_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:02:00 -0700 (PDT)322_us-ascii Kol ha-kavod, Steve. What a wonderful example of people doing what needs to be done. I am about to start organizing my family's trip to Israel for next summer, so there is a way for each of us to do our part.
Have a safe trip and a wonderful time.
Naomi Goldberg Honor Mosh '67-KM'72, '74, '77 [...]
23798 40 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel10_Jon Zatkin26_jzatkin@public2.bta.net.cn30_Tue, 1 Oct 2002 00:03:46 +0800666_UTF-8 Steve,
Kol hakavod!!! B'hatzlacha raba u'v'shalom!
China still awaits you!!
Bvirkat chaverim,
Jon Zatkin San Francisco Ken Arafel 1959-65 12th Workshop (Gesher Haziv) 1962-3 Chaver Gesher Haziv 1965-8
Please visit our website: http://www.nscl-beijing.org |================================================= |Jon Zatkin Tel: (8610) 6298-5758 |Head of School (Emeritus) Fax: (8610) 6298-1620 |The New School of Collaborative Learning |An Ning Zhuang, Qing He Zhen |Haidian District Email: jzatkin@nscl-beijing.org (O) |Beijing, China 100085 jzatkin@public2.bta.net.cn (H) |================================================= [...]
23839 71 46_RE: "In Hollywood . . . . . Silence on Israel"11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:46:45 -0700358_iso-8859-1 Here are some excerpts from the L.A. Times article:
"Israel's consul general Yuval Rotem, says he's made dozens of phone cals to get a high-profile Hollywood figure to visit Israel and so far has failed. "Ever since March, when we lost 140 people in one month,.... I've asked this question over and over again, "Where have they been?" [...]
23911 401 26_FW: an interesting article11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 11:47:35 -0700462_iso-8859-1
-----Original Message----- From: marcia plager [mailto:mplager@socal.rr.com] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:10 AM To: Steve Klein Subject: Fw: an interesting article
----- Original Message ----- From: jim shalom To: marcia plager Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 11:52 AM Subject: an interesting article
A Challenge to House Master Hanson
By ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ September 23, 2002 [...]
24313 747 18_Metula News Agency13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:30:58 -0400337_us-ascii Dear Chevre- Does any one know this source? Is it credible in its claim that the entire incident of the boy being shot at Netzarim at the beginning of the intifada was faked? I would be very interested in what people know about Nahum Shahaf, the Israeli who claims to have proofed that this is a fraud. Shalom, Judy Gelman [...]
25061 50 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:57:51 EDT317_US-ASCII Steve:
I am completely blown away by what you are doing - Kol Hakavod. I also confess to particularistic Habonim pride that you are a boger tnua and some fellow movement folks helped you with connections, etc.
Travel safely, put on a great show and tell us all about it when you get back. [...]
25112 34 30_Re: FW: an interesting article0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:41:19 EDT147_US-ASCII I see this forward came from Jim Shalom. Is this the same Jim Shalom who is (I think) from Canada and went to MB Hay?
nebbie Debbie
25147 42 39_Re: shai l'yisrael - concerts in Israel0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 19:31:59 EDT175_US-ASCII Kol HaKavod Steve! Sounds amazing. Wow, with Andy Staman too... Have a great trip!
--Brian
----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com
25190 86 31_Re: Fw: Summer of 2009, a story9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:27:23 -0700410_us-ascii While you may have considered drugs, sex and alcohol to be an indispensible part of your Habonim experience I am here to tell you that nothing will kill a camp faster than getting a reputation for permissiveness on just those issues. You may consider it puritanical, it is nevertheless absolutely essential to have a zero tolerance policy or you can kiss parental support for the camps good bye. [...]
25277 19 30_Re: FW: an interesting article0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Mon, 30 Sep 2002 21:35:03 EDT546_US-ASCII I have a lot of Jewish friends to whom I've forwarded the Dershowitz article. Some of our Jewish professors need to read this, along with some of their students.
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