1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet March 2002 2 61 33_Dance Ensembles Need Your Support0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Mar 2002 03:56:25 EST598_US-ASCII Chevreh,

Still waiting to hear from people who will come to support our two hard working dance ensembles in the Israeli Dance Festival. Here is the email from our Rosh Eizor again - please respond immediately:



<< COME ONE, COME ALL! >> Come out to support our Na'aleh Dance Troupe at this year's 51st Israeli Dance Festival!! Hundreds of folk from cities throughout North America will be performing Israeli dance under one roof on March 17th in New York City. This is the first time in 15 years that Habonim has a kids' group dancing, in addition to the Habonim [...] 64 50 14_Land Authority13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 01 Mar 2002 12:56:19 +0200344_windows-1255 Shabbat Shalom Chaverim,

The following article appears in the Jerusalem Post. although there are some errors, in general, it is an objective report on the use of land by kibbutzim and moshavim and the expected decision bythe Supreme Court.

http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/02/24/Features/Features.43999.html

115 107 12_USA Passport10_david baum23_rdbaum@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:41:38 +0200675_windows-1255 FYI

Effective April 8, 2002, American citizens residing or traveling abroad who require a new or replacement U.S. passport will be issued the latest, state-of-the-art passport incorporating a photo- digitized image and other enhanced security features. While the Embassy in Tel Aviv and Consulate General in Jerusalem will continue to accept passport applications from Americans in Israel, just as they do now, the passports themselves will be printed in the U.S. This will increase processing times at the U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv and the Consulate General in Jerusalem. However, the Department of State is committed to ensuring that American citizens [...] 223 53 38_Yiddish language resources on Internet7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 01 Mar 2002 08:08:32 +0200689_iso-8859-1 I thought, just maybe, there might be even one person on Habonet who would be interested in these sources. Shabbat Shalom, (b'muvan ha-malay shel ha-bracha!), pearl ENJOY!

Yiddish language resources on the Internet > | > | A place to buy Yiddish books: > | http://www.yiddishbookcenter.org/ > | > | A website about Yiddish for English language speakers: > | http://www.bergen.org/AAST/Projects/Yiddish/English > | > | Yiddish language radio on the web: > | http://www.yiddishvoice.com/ > | > | The Virtual Shtetl website: > | http://www.ibiblio.org/yiddish/shtetl.html > | > | The "Understanding Yiddish Information Processing" website: > | http://www.uyip.org/ > | [...] 277 117 7_comment7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 01 Mar 2002 09:54:23 +0200565_iso-8859-1 Richard, and others, your last comment is not warranted. The problem that some of us have with a few of the writers on Habonet is that the blame is shifted TO Israel and away from the Arabs. Believe me I know that we are not lilywhite, but I am not going to blacken Israel's name or help lower morale here by publicly coming out against the government and Israel's actions. We are already down enough and very vulnerable. We have trouble enough breathing. It is especially painful for us here to read criticism from abroad from people who come from [...] 395 21 17_Response to Pearl0_20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Fri, 01 Mar 2002 11:00:40 -0500452_- Pearl,

As they always do, your recent messages have raised some interesting points.

I have supported Israel all my life, and I continue to do so. Nevertheless, I have never accepted the idea that the best way to express my love for Israel is to shut up and support whatever the Israeli government says or does. (Don't take it personally -- I also love the United States, but I behave *exactly* the same way toward its government.) [...] 417 196 36_Not Following A Multitude to do Evil12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 01 Mar 2002 18:18:08 +0200608_iso-8859-1 Haverim and Haverot I’ve been mulling over the call of the reserve officers’ group about refusal to serve in the shtahim. We thought we had it made. Up to the Yom Kippur War of 1973, the Zionist revolution we all subscribed to had weathered seven decades and four wars since Theodore Herzl’s call to the scattered nation at the founding Zionist Congress in Basel. After the astonishing victory in the Six Day War, most Israelis believed that peace would now crown all our other successes: the incredible realization of an independent state governed by a Jewish parliamentary democracy with a [...] 614 62 23_open letter from Israel0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Mar 2002 11:36:40 EST658_US-ASCII This message is brought to you by the Jewish Women Leaders Online listserve, a project of the Jewish Women's Coalition, Inc., creating a network of social justice activists working on issues significant to Jewish women (and men). We have received this letter from the Israel Women's Network, which we think will interest our readers. ****************************************************** Dear Friends: Today in Israel, we discuss politics, terrorism and safety. We live from bombing to bombing struggling to create order in times of complete disorder. The conflict of the past 16 months seems to engulf us and it seems oftentimes without end. [...] 677 57 11_Re: comment0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:07:16 EST622_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/1/2002 8:14:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, skolnik@netvision.net.il writes:

Pearl wrote:

> Every show of breaking of ranks gives a message to the Arabs that we are > divided among ourselves, thus weakened, and easier prey. It gives them > additional hope that they can overcome us.

This is clearly true and definitely a problem. However, it is not nearly a sufficient reason for Jews to walk lockstep in any direction (if that were even possible), instead the arabs must learn that dissent is not evidence of weakness or lack of resolve, but instead evidence of civic [...] 735 132 16_Re: USA Passport13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca36_Fri, 1 Mar 2002 15:50:56 -0500 (EST)359_us-ascii I'd like to thank Amnon for his long, serious, insightful analysis which I'll have to read and reread during the next few days.

Although this might sound like a platitute, I believe there's no alternative but to follow our conscience. And if more people do that, rather than being concerned with "PR", the days of peace will be hastened. [...] 868 127 13_fuji map myth14_Danny Goldberg17_mb300dt@yahoo.com36_Fri, 1 Mar 2002 14:20:51 -0800 (PST)483_us-ascii In regard to the postings on habonet a few days ago i thought you might find this article i copied from JTA of interest. I would also note on a personal level that Subaru was the first and from the late 60's till the early 90s the ONLY Japanese car maker that agreed to sell to Israel. Many of us who lived there during those days know that for years Subaru was the best selling brand in Israel, a white Subaru wagon with auto and air was every Israeli's "status" car. [...] 996 28 9_Alef, Bet0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Mar 2002 08:23:59 EST350_US-ASCII Can someone help me out? My Hebrew, such as it ever was, is not up to providing child friendly Hebrew names for each of the letters in the Hebrew alphabet. I'm looking for things like Daled = Dov, Mem = Miriam, Shin = Shoshana, etc. The final consonants are included. Gender is not important but there should be an overall 50-50 split. [...] 1025 28 51_Pain and Pride of Ethical and Moral Sturm und Drang0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:28:31 EST531_US-ASCII I read Amnon's Shabbat lesson many times And I sit here, safe, wanting to "take up arms" with hugs and shout out with songs of peace and love in the hopes that somehow there will be some power that hears all of this. Where else in the world is there a people who asks for its daily bread of mundane life with such pain and struggle? Where else in the world is there a people where dissent and argument and "drash" enters every cell of every being? Where else in the world does victory feel like defeat? I love Israel [...] 1054 19 13_Re: Alef, Bet0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:31:49 EST571_US-ASCII Hi Dennis- you can go to : www.google.com and type in "Hebrew names"- and you will be inked to lots of sites with names...( one had 2,000)....I find that google is a great search engine- and usually can find ANYTHING I need there....sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1074 77 21_Re: Response to Pearl7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:15:47 +0200528_windows-1255 David, shalom, I think we can talk all we want between each other, argue ourselves sick and then I hope embrace each other. What I mainly refer to is the public challenge to what is happening here. We live the hell of the Intifada day in and day out, 24 hours a day, and I and many members of my family have lost dear friends and neighbors. Only the other day a man was murdered here in Atarot whom I knew and whose family I know. My son's friend was seriously injured last week by soldiers who thought he was [...] 1152 130 21_Re: Response to Pearl0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Mar 2002 15:04:58 EST430_US-ASCII It is arrogance to question the commitment of Peres to the safety and security of the country simply because you disagree with him. While he clearly has an ego problem to say the least, and I do not always agree with him, he has a record of public service of which anyone can be proud anywhere. Sharon, if anyone, has made a career of excesses, legally and militarily, which have often led the country into trouble. [...] 1283 455 17_Moslems for Peace12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:27:29 +0200437_windows-1255 These items were sent to me the Root & Branch Association, an Israeli interreligious academic group. Apparently, these are the true Moslem "peaceniks," not the ones who show up at so-called peace rallies, full of praise for the PLO, Arafat and the holy jihad. Before you call them Arab Uncle Toms, think twice. They may just be brave Moslems risking their lives, fortunes and sacred honors for a cause they believe in. [...] 1739 1220 55_Radical New Views of Islam and the Origins of the Koran16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 02 Mar 2002 19:11:44 -050067_us-ascii

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/02/arts/02ISLA.html 2960 128 11_Monthly FAQ12_Jennifer Kay19_kay@elvis.rowan.edu31_Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:32:03 -0500415_- Actually-from:brianscoop@aol.com

Hi Chevre,

Here is a reminder of the "essential" commands that you can use to configure your subscription to Habonet. I will post this monthly from now on. Please note -- The address for commands is: listproc@shamash.org whereas the address for posts to the list is: habonet@shamash.org If you need any help with any of it, send me an email: brianscoop@aol.com [...] 3089 36 17_Re: Dave Van Ronk0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Sun, 3 Mar 2002 02:39:16 EST271_US-ASCII I didn't get a chance to respond to this until now, but an all-time-great Van Ronk piece I still perform is "He Was A Friend Of Mine" - how sad that the words are similar to what has now happened to the author himself(don't know about the penniless part) : [...] 3126 126 12_Daniel Pearl16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:19:40 -0500429_us-ascii Feb. 26, 2002, 6:10PM Let's be clear why Pearl was murdered By CRAGG HINES Copyright 2002 Houston Chronicle A desperately unnecessary dissection has begun into the question of why

Daniel Pearl was murdered. Some well-meaning commentators, with sad, weary shrugs, have said we may never know exactly why. What a maundering load of crap. Pearl was murdered because he was a Jew and because he was an American. [...] 3253 1754 80_Radical, Retaliatory and Right There on British Bookshelves (washingtonpost.com)16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:39:31 -050083_us-ascii

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26588-2002Mar1.html 5008 32 17_Re: Dave Van Ronk12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 03 Mar 2002 22:30:41 +0200549_iso-8859-1 Aliya, you reminded me that I had also wanted to send in a sort-of "memory piece" about Dave van Ronk.

I was a freshman in college in NY, and had never heard of Dave van Ronk. Another freshman, who thought his songs and gravelly voice were great, convinced four other girls that we just HAD to go to hear him one night at a folk club. Naively, we thought we'd have plenty of time to get back to the dorms before our 10:00 curfew!! Well, I can still remember five sweet young things in this smoke-filled club, listening to all [...] 5041 2418 83_Fw: Radical, Retaliatory and Right There on British Bookshelves(washingtonpost.com)7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:07:11 +0200 7460 2458 59_Fw: Radical New Views of Islam and the Origins of the Koran7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:34:41 +0200 9919 29 38_more on the officers refusing to serve0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:44:08 EST490_US-ASCII Folks:

I don't want to take up bandwidth here on this topic unless others want to discuss. I just wanted to let you know that Liron Eliasov, one of the three hundred signatories, is now putting out a weekly personal report on his and other refuseniks' situations. This week he wrote about his encounter with his officer and about the first officers to find themselves in jail. If you would like to see Liron's letter and/or want to receive it weekly, just let me know. [...] 9949 29 42_Re: more on the officers refusing to serve0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:16:00 EST100_US-ASCII Yes, John, I would very much like to see and hear as much about this situation as possible. 9979 67 0_12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 09:02:51 +0200586_us-ascii



Pearl, You wrote < I think we can talk all we want between each other, argue ourselves sick and then I hope embrace each other.> I want to say goodbye. This is because I don't want to argue with you anymore. The (metaphoric) prospect you hold out of embracing each other doesn't magnetize me. Realize that this is not an unfriendly act on my part, it is a severance. You and I belong to different strands of the Jewish People. It may not sound gemutlich but it is quintessentially Jewish. Sectarianism zealotry and schism have been around much longer than [...] 10047 48 42_Re: more on the officers refusing to serve9_debby&ami17_debam@urim.org.il30_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 10:47:51 +0200595_iso-8859-1 Please let me know Ami Lamdan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 2:44 AM Subject: more on the officers refusing to serve



> Folks: > > I don't want to take up bandwidth here on this topic unless others want to > discuss. I just wanted to let you know that Liron Eliasov, one of the three > hundred signatories, is now putting out a weekly personal report on his and > other refuseniks' situations. This week he wrote about his encounter with his > officer and about the first officers to find [...] 10096 34 12_(no subject)0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 06:41:53 EST529_US-ASCII Amnon Said Pearl, You wrote < I think we can talk all we want between each other, argue ourselves sick and then I hope embrace each other.> I want to say goodbye. I want to say goodbye. This is because I don't want to argue with you anymore.



Sam Said Bingo ( that is something that makes old catholic ladies know the have struck pay dirt.) Amnon..save those hugs for me. You da man...We are going to need some good hugs in a pinch. I love ya........You put into words what so many of us are feeling. [...] 10131 35 42_Re: more on the officers refusing to serve13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 08:01:09 -0500556_us-ascii Dear Ken I'd like to see it. Judy

KBob24@aol.com wrote:

> Folks: > > I don't want to take up bandwidth here on this topic unless others want to > discuss. I just wanted to let you know that Liron Eliasov, one of the three > hundred signatories, is now putting out a weekly personal report on his and > other refuseniks' situations. This week he wrote about his encounter with his > officer and about the first officers to find themselves in jail. If you would > like to see Liron's letter and/or want to receive it weekly, just [...] 10167 122 69_Israel's Former Attorney General: Refusal Demonstrates Moral Backbone9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net30_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 08:19:05 -0500472_iso-8859-1 The war's seventh day

By Michael Ben-Yair

The Zionist dream's realization and the Jewish people's national rebirth through the creation of Israel were achieved not because of the Jewish side's superior number of tanks, planes or other aggressive means. The State of Israel was born because the Zionist movement realized it must find a solution to the Jews' persecution and because the enlightened world recognized the need for that solution. [...] 10290 2172 19_The Spectator.co.uk16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 10:54:15 -0500104_us-ascii

http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old§ion=back&issue=2002-02-16&id=1580 12463 40 29_Opposite attractions-To Amnon0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:05:24 EST587_US-ASCII When I was getting my Masters in drama, we had two professors who were the company (department) directors. One, "Berger," was an actor's director; he was weak in the technical side of productions- although they always came out fine - he would work duriing rehearsals with an intensity on "motivation, subtext, etc,"- making the actor think hard and react to what was going on in the scene. The other, "Mr. Pickett", was a technical genius. His shows were beautiful to watch, and often magical, but he didn't give a rat's ass for actors- and thought they needed to do their [...] 12504 35 39_did you ever have to make up your mind?11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 13:46:39 -0500281_us-ascii I believe it was in 1972 for the production "Gidget gets a rash", a brilliant parody of the story of Job (a Sprech and Vic production if I recall), there was a tune called "Did you ever have to make up your mind" which was itself a parody of a tune by the same name. [...] 12540 120 33_Re: Opposite attractions-To Amnon0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 13:56:54 EST541_US-ASCII While Amnon's comments were (as always) indeed expressed with incredible literacy, they were anything BUT tempered -- and ever so from exploded his gut. I reject this differentiation between these two expressions.

And regarding the drama school analogy, would that this were only a play.

Having said all that, my impression was not that Amnon was about to abandon the list, only the argument with Pearl. I hope this is what he meant anyway, as we do, at times, cover other wonderful subjects, issues, and themes! [...] 12661 109 25_Re: shalom v'lo l'hitraot7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:35:59 +0200495_iso-8859-1 1. please do not tell me what I sing, what I pray for, and who my God is. You do not know, and what you wrote is not so concerning my beliefs. As long as I can remember I have lit shabbat candles praying that no more Arabs or Jews should die in this war between us -- that we should live at peace together in this land. As long as I can remember... 2. I believe that the Jewish People is One People and I try in my daily life to always give this message -- because this division [...] 12771 49 43_Re: did you ever have to make up your mind?0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:29:25 EST301_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/4/02 1:49:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes:



> Did you ever have to make up you mind? (da da dada) > Say yes to one and leave the other behind. > It's not often easy, it's not often kind. > Did you ever have to make up you mind? [...] 12821 384 42_Re: more on the officers refusing to serve0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 14:36:00 EST375_UTF-8 Folks:

So many of you requested to see this report from Liron Eliasov that instead of sending it individually, I am sending it to you through Habonet. a couple of you asked why I didn't send it out to Habonet, so I am. At the end of the letter is Liron's email address - if you would like to receive this directly on a weekly basis, just send him an email. [...] 13206 41 14_Sausage Making0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 15:05:53 EST408_US-ASCII I love Amnon. I love Pearl. My heart hurts from battle between them. It seems to me that the conversants in the Talmud see things in different ways and the discussions (pulpil) of important (foundational) issues are often heated. We have a history of abandoning those whose view of the requirements of our mission and our relationship with God and our human fellows, is different from our own. [...] 13248 21 32_Support for IDF Reserve Officers0_20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 15:14:38 -0500648_- Rabbi Michael Lerner, editor of Tikkun magazine, is organizing a campaign in the US to show support for the brave reservists who have refused to serve in the territories.

Details are available at

http://www.tikkun.org/index.cfm/action/current/article/86.html

Please support this effort.

David

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 13270 34 30_"All the world's a stage".....0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:10:08 EST519_US-ASCII yes, Brian, would that this were "only a play"- I think I am not THAT naive to not know the difference between entertainment and real hard life lessons and the battles between life and death- and perhaps that is why it is so important to me to always have both the Pearls and the Amnons around to either hit me in the gut, or the head, or knock me out of my chair, or make me feel guilty. And I am not wishy-washy as you infer- it isn't a matter of not choosing--I make decisions and choices every day. I [...] 13305 16 18_Re: Sausage Making0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 16:25:58 EST367_US-ASCII To Dennis- todah again- sue(sie)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 13322 36 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:04:51 -0500389_us-ascii Dear David,

That Michael Lerner is supporting the refuseniks gives me pause. I am uncomfortable with the language "a new planetary consciousness". Did you note "Support us financially" ? That isn't the refuseniks you are supporting but Tikkun. Does anyone else feel that the refuseniks are being used to support the Renewal movement, rather than the other way around? [...] 13359 33 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:29:09 EST594_US-ASCII Judy......David......

I will NEVER support anything connected with Michael Lerner. I have met him; his ex-wife, whose money funded Tikkun, was my roommate at the Seminary one summer.

I do not trust him. I believe he is less than ethical himself and is in it primarily for his own self-aggrandizement.

I wasn't important enough for him to treat me with even a modicum of civility, I was not pleased with the way he treated my roommate, Nan Fink, and while some of us in the residence hall were struggling to pay our bills, he had no problem just "crashing" in [...] 13393 55 36_RE: Support for IDF Reserve Officers16_Sharon Weissbach12_sw@iglou.com30_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:37:18 -0500685_Windows-1252 Thank you -- that was exactly my reaction.

-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of Judith Gelman Sent: Monday, March 04, 2002 5:05 PM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers



Dear David,

That Michael Lerner is supporting the refuseniks gives me pause. I am uncomfortable with the language "a new planetary consciousness". Did you note "Support us financially" ? That isn't the refuseniks you are supporting but Tikkun. Does anyone else feel that the refuseniks are being used to support the Renewal movement, rather than the other way around? [...] 13449 97 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca36_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 17:37:36 -0500 (EST)518_us-ascii Dear David,

As you undoutedly know, Tikkun doesn't offer an Israeli address to which people can contribute directly to Yesh Gvul (or do I have the wrong name?). In its internal notice about the ad in question, Tikkun lists a wide variety of ways people can contribute to it. The idea seems to be that if you can't put down 250 bucks to get your name on the ad, you can still give, and if you're really poor and can't give to any of those other things, not all is lost -- you can always subscribe. [...] 13547 23 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers0_20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 17:59:49 -0500510_- Thank you to Debbie and Judy and others.

My acquaintance with Michael Lerner is through his magazine, Tikkun, and I had a pretty high opinion of him.

I am disappointed to read that he's not all that he appears.

On a persoanl level, I am supporting his ad (because I think it's important to show that there is support for the reservists), but I'll also be sure to send a contribution to the reservists themselves (there was a website included in the message that Ken Bob forwarded). [...] 13571 73 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 18:05:27 EST366_US-ASCII Deaar Judy

I have grave doubts about Michael Lerner. He has done and said many things that make him seem marginal to what we are trying to do. I support the reservist. Michael Lerner is a lose cannon who among other things supports cutting off all aid to Israel and bringing back all the refugees. I would like to hear more about your concerns. [...] 13645 27 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 04 Mar 2002 18:43:18 -0500407_us-ascii Dear Sam,

My concerns are more or less what others have articulated.

I guess having Michael Lerner support a position with which I felt sympathetic makes me stop and reconsider whether I have been looking at a question too simplistically. It is sort of like finding myself on the same side of an issue as Jerry Falwell--I know that either he or I somehow got into the wrong bed. [...] 13673 29 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:37:07 EST95_US-ASCII Somebody once said, "You should never blame a cause for the people who believe in it." 13703 57 36_Re: Support for IDF Reserve Officers0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 19:42:29 EST607_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/4/02 4:37:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, Richardrdsmith@aol.com writes:



> Somebody once said, "You should never blame a cause for the people who > believe in it."

That may be, Richardsmith, but concerns about Lerner himself and about his particular efforts are the issue, not the cause itself.

Seems to me that one of the things people here have said is that it might make more sense to contribute directly, rather than to an expensive full-page ad somewhere........and that it's not exactly kosher for there not to be a direct way from Israel. [...] 13761 17 6_PRIMER0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Mar 2002 23:51:42 EST449_US-ASCII Does anyone know anything about "PRIMER"? ("Promoting Responsibility in Middle East Reporting")- Just curious..sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 13779 18 43_Re: did you ever have to make up your mind?0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 02:12:41 EST403_US-ASCII I think the song was recorded by The Lovin' Spoonful, no?

ACC

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 13798 93 35_an officer who now chooses to serve7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 05 Mar 2002 01:53:48 +0200558_iso-8859-1 It is very easy to say "don't serve," but if you think a little deeper you realize that an officer who does not serve means that others, perhaps not as professional, as moral, as talented as they, will have to serve in their stead, and maybe because they are not the right officers at the right place more soldiers and civilians will die or be injured as a result. Also, the burden of serving will fall on fewer and fewer officers. Their soldiers will feel they were abandoned when they needed their officers most. It can not be conducive to [...] 13892 58 38_Job Opening at Habonim Dror Foundation0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 06:31:13 EST691_US-ASCII

Folks:

Our current executive director, Jessica Silver (who has done a wonderful job), is moving on to graduate school and we are in search of a replacement for the summer-fall of 2002.

The Habonim Dror Foundation Executive Director serves as the main point of contact for inquiries and activities relating to the Foundation. He/she is the only employee of the Foundation and has an office at the Habonim Dror North America location in NY. Responsibilities include financial management, staffing of committees, facilitating fundraising activities, and general community involvement, particularly with the various arms of the Labor Zionist and Habonim Dror [...] 13951 21 39_Re: an officer who now chooses to serve0_20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:13:48 -0500347_- Thank you, Pearl, for reminding us that there are always (at least) two sides to every story.

>>> It is very easy to say "don't serve," but if you think a little deeper you realize that an officer who does not serve means that others, perhaps not as professional, as moral, as talented as they, will have to serve in their stead <<< [...] 13973 94 20_The Gantza Geshichta0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:06:09 EST575_US-ASCII Here is my position on the Palestinians and the territories.

There are three parties in interest. A. Israel, which conquered the territories and has the right of a conqueror to hold them, tax them, govern them, and protect them from those who would try to take them. B. Jordan, to whom the territories formerly belonged, but which, from my point of view, would not compromise on the east Jerusalem issue and so the West Bank claims were not settled at the time of the peace with Jordan, B(2) Egypt, who I think refused to take back Gaza unless there was [...] 14068 95 99_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBKb2IgT3BlbmluZyBhdCBIYWJvbmltIERyb3IgRm91bmRh?= =?iso-8859-1?B?dGlvbg==?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 05 Mar 2002 21:02:07 +0200525_iso-8859-1 Dear Jessica,

I'd just like to wish you a long and successful career and a happy life.

All the best,

Mollie Marx ----- Original Message ----- From: KBob24@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 1:31 PM Subject: Job Opening at Habonim Dror Foundation





Folks:

Our current executive director, Jessica Silver (who has done a wonderful job), is moving on to graduate school and we are in search of a replacement for the summer-fall of 2002. [...] 14164 16 33_Re: Opposite attractions-To Amnon0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:25:25 EST538_ISO-8859-1 Pearl has a right to her opinions. Amnon has the right not to listen. Its as simple as that. He has exercised that right. I think it may be a wise choice. It is also good to let people know that their message is not hitting its target audience. Perhaps with Amnon's input Pearl will change her tact and have more sucess in connecting with those she is trying to connect with. Clearly as I read the letters about our best and brightest going to jail for their beliefs, I chose to focus my attention on their plight and not [...] 14181 71 40_Fwd: an officer who now chooses to serve0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:34:11 EST17_US-ASCII

14253 37 33_Re: Opposite attractions-To Amnon0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 16:33:24 EST564_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/5/02 12:26:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, Smfgrappa@aol.com writes:

> Pearl has a right to her opinions. Amnon has the right not to listen. Its as > simple as that. He has exercised that right. I think it may be a wise choice.

I agree, Sam. I can't begin to imagine how it might feel to hear that one's opinions are wrong.......given that family members have been lost. Every time I read a note from Pearl clearly saying that people who do NOT live in Israel don't have a right to their own opinion (if they disagree [...] 14291 68 42_Re: more on the officers refusing to serve14_Tana Hemingway16_tanah@zianet.com31_Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:56:13 -0700524_us-ascii Yes, Ken, put me on that list, thanks. Tanah

At 08:01 AM 3/4/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Dear Ken >I'd like to see it. >Judy > >KBob24@aol.com wrote: > > > Folks: > > > > I don't want to take up bandwidth here on this topic unless others want to > > discuss. I just wanted to let you know that Liron Eliasov, one of the three > > hundred signatories, is now putting out a weekly personal report on his and > > other refuseniks' situations. This week he wrote about his encounter > with his > > officer [...] 14360 41 50_PRIORITIES, SIFTING OUT THE JUNK, AND COMPLEXITIES0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:35:20 EST557_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/6/02 4:26:28 AM, Smfgrappa@aol.com writes:

<< Amnon has the right not to listen. Its as simple as that >>

I don't think any of this is very simple. While, yes, Amnon has the right to ignore, not listen, refuse to be sucked in, disagree, etc. etc., I also feel that all of us have a responsibility to listen, especially now. I want to listen to everyone who has something to say. I want to hear what is being felt by my brethren in Israel, and by others all over who feel the pains of this situation. [...] 14402 120 37_Fw: roses from ex-habonim, sde nitzan9_CarmiDave20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Wed, 6 Mar 2002 03:21:47 +0200613_windows-1255

You probably know that Myron Sofer is a Habonim graduate.Anyone having a simcha - they send abroad.

>From: "Myron and Miriam"

>Subject: Roses from Israel for your Pesach Seder >Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 21:41:20 +0200 > >Shalom to our valued customers and friends. > >We want to take this opportunity to thank all of you who have ordered roses from us during this past year. And especially, to all of you who have expressed your satisfaction with our product and service and re-ordered from us. Your continued support has been most encouraging. > >We have added a new, smaller [...] 14523 46 33_Re: Opposite attractions-To Amnon11_Sue Mackson16_susiem6@juno.com30_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:15:00 -0500544_- One changes one's "TAC", as in sailing. I doubt that you were discussing Pearl's "tact"

Sue Mackson

On Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:25:25 EST Smfgrappa@aol.com writes: > Pearl has a right to her opinions. Amnon has the right not to listen. > Its as simple as that. He has exercised that right. I think it may > be a wise choice. It is also good to let people know that their > message is not hitting its target audience. Perhaps with Amnon's > input Pearl will change her tact and have more sucess in connecting > with those she is [...] 14570 386 42_Re: more on the officers refusing to serve0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Mar 2002 22:46:05 EST375_UTF-8 Folks:

So many of you requested to see this report from Liron Eliasov that instead of sending it individually, I am sending it to you through Habonet. a couple of you asked why I didn't send it out to Habonet, so I am. At the end of the letter is Liron's email address - if you would like to receive this directly on a weekly basis, just send him an email. [...] 14957 457 42_Re: more on the officers refusing to serve0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Mar 2002 00:13:50 EST578_US-ASCII Hi,

Am not sure if this has been posted. I received it a few weeks ago but have been 'on the road'.

HOW TO SUPPORT CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS IN ISRAEL > October 26, 2001 > > Until now there is no provision in Israeli law that allows Israelis to > choose conscientious objector (CO) status. In spite of this, the number > of COs in Israel is growing. The NGO (non-governmental organization), New > Profile, was recently established in Israel to support Israelis who choose > CO status. At the same time, New Profile is looking at the implications > and [...] 15415 85 25_more on 'refuseniks" etc.13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:41:32 +0200330_windows-1255 By the number of responses to the "officers who refuse to serve" that has recently passed through Habonet, one can assume that if a poll was taken today by Habonim, the supporters of those who are "CONSCIENTIOUS objectors would win hands down. Or perhaps it is that these people are more vocal in their support. [...] 15501 24 26_lindenbaum's email address0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Mar 2002 09:37:27 EST371_US-ASCII Does anyone know the Karen Lindenbaum's new email address? She is apparently another home.com refugee; the Lindenbaums habonet mail (with home.com address) is now bouncing. If you know the new one, please email it to me privately (do NOT reply to the habonet message), or forward this to her and she can let me know if she wants habonet at the new address. [...] 15526 45 27_re Benny Morris-guardian/uk13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 06 Mar 2002 16:41:00 +0200180_windows-1255 The following article appeared in the Guardian U.K on Thursday Feb 21/02. Worth reading. Moshe. http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,653594,00.html

15572 111 29_Thomas Friedman - NYT March 611_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 06 Mar 2002 10:02:17 -0500621_iso-8859-1

The last 4 paragrahs seem key to me.

To Moshe - we who sometimes criticize Israel from the Galut do so in the hope that perhaps our different perspective can add insight, not to make your life even more difficult.

Best regards,

Noam

+++

March 6, 2002

The Core of Muslim Rage

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

he latest death toll in the Indian violence between Hindus and Muslims is 544 people, many of them Muslims. Why is it that when Hindus kill hundreds of Muslims it elicits an emotionally muted headline in the Arab media, but when Israel kills a [...] 15684 64 31_Re: re Benny Morris-guardian/uk0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Mar 2002 13:26:03 EST549_US-ASCII I read the article with great interest and sent Mr. Morris the following E-mail.

Thank you for your scholarship and intellectual honesty. I just read your article in the Guardian (London). I have never been confident that we (Jews) were meant for statehood. It has always seemed to me that the Diaspora is where God intended us to be. Why else would Abraham have been led to this occupied strip of land joining Europe, Asia and Africa? Our history as a state is short and anything but glorious, but we have ignored that lesson. [...] 15749 87 29_RE: more on 'refuseniks" etc.12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Wed, 6 Mar 2002 20:32:11 -0500550_windows-1255 Moshe- I had just finished reading the letter from the conscientious objector, and was trying to decide whether or not to jump in once again with my 2 cents. While deliberating, I went on to read the next letter in my queue, which was yours. The 2 together compelled me to write. As an American who has never spent more than a few months in Israel, I want to let you know that not all American Jews have the same opinion (a given), and not all American Jews on Habonet have the same opinion (which should be equally obvious). While [...] 15837 77 23_The Seventh Day arrives11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Wed, 6 Mar 2002 21:00:18 -0600480_us-ascii After Four Mothers, the Seventh Day arrives

By Ruth Sinai







On March 4, 1997, a name was coined for a protest group whose activities contributed to the historic decision to pull out of Lebanon - the Four Mothers Movement. Zohara Antebi, one of the four, sees symbolic significance in the fact that five years to the day, another new movement that also calls for withdrawal - this time from the territories - has been established. [...] 15915 22 20_I'm a refusenik, too9_CarmiDave20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 05:46:39 +0200550_windows-1255 Yes, chevre, I'm a refusenik, too. I refuse to comment on whether or not you, me or all of us have the right to comment on the refuseniks.

Maybe a few more should, too.........



Dave Holtzer

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 15938 30 43_RE: did you ever have to make up your mind?18_jnhonor@rcknet.com18_jnhonor@rcknet.com30_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 01:08:39 -0500338_iso-8859-1

Noam--

Job was either 1971 or 1972 and featured a number of great songs including 'Get Job'. For those who may have missed this production the premise was that god was a socialist, satan was a capitalist and Job was a wishy washy liberal. Even 30 years on, the possibilities and the memories make me smile. [...] 15969 104 23_Re: HABONET digest 216910_Jon Zatkin26_jzatkin@public2.bta.net.cn30_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 20:17:01 +0800594_iso-8859-1 Chevre,

Dennis Lerner wrote:

> If the proper concern of a country is the safety and opportunity afforded its > people, then I propose a strategy of "pretaliation." Pretaliation means > telling the Palestinians and the world that the next terrorist attack within > the borders of Israel will be followed 24 hours later by the leveling of > Jenin, or whatever town seems convenient or appropriate. (Personally I would > pick a town close to the Green line, and would add that Israel will annex the > territory into Israel.) At the same time I would announce that if [...] 16074 58 31_Fw: 145 Websites about Passover7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 07 Mar 2002 09:39:08 +0200596_iso-8859-1 To those who thanked me for sending these lists from Jacob, thank you. These little courtesies often make my day. I am very happy that you find them useful. Pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Richman





> Hi Everyone! > > Passover is an eight day Jewish holiday, of Biblical origin, > marking the birth of the Jews as a people and their emergence > as a unique nation in history, devoted to G-d's will. > It celebrates the liberation of the children of Israel > from slavery in Egypt over 3000 years ago, under the > leadership [...] 16133 51 21_supporting refuseniks13_Deborah Meyer14_dmeyer@rrc.edu30_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 09:26:02 -0500539_iso-8859-1 For those of you/us who DO wish to support the refuseniks, one way to do this form the USA is with our pocketbooks.

You can give through The Shefa Fund, a description and directions how are below.

Shefa is a progressive Jewish foundation, a small but amazing place (where I used to work). I encourage folks to check them out. Shefa has a lot of integrity, and also has a pooled fund to re-plant olive trees & support Rabbis for Human Rights. Their (limited) website is www.shefafund.org. Phone: 215/483-4004. [...] 16185 193 13_To the editor15_Kaufman, Albert26_Albert.Kaufman@METROKC.GOV30_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 08:47:27 -0800675_iso-8859-1 Hi everyone,

Here is a letter I sent out yesterday. Thought you might find it interesting.

Albert Kaufman, Seattle

-----------------------

To the editor:

The state of our world is deteriorating in so many respects that it's hard to keep track. This year, I will make my annual pilgrimage to Washington, DC to talk to my legislators about the core issue - human population growth. I will spend time with members of the Sierra Club, National Wildlife Association and Zero Population Growth learning about the latest challenging statistics on species loss, pollution increases, crowding in cities and how the "developed" world [...] 16379 22 29_Re: more on 'refuseniks" etc.0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:17:49 EST389_US-ASCII Dear Sharon I appreciated your reply, but of course have a comment as well. It is the right of every individual to object on conscientious or other grounds, and it is right of a society to impose whatever consequences it chooses on such behavior. We tread on dangerous ground when we judge whether the conduct on individuals is right or wrong. Thanks for your posting Dennis [...] 16402 26 25_Re: supporting refuseniks9_CarmiDave20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 19:31:04 +0200336_iso-8859-1 For those of you who simply wish to support Israel and her economy, there are some fabulous deals at the wonderful hotels in Eilat, which, as you all know, has not been bothered by terrorist attacks. Weather today was hot and sunny - I wandered around here at Urim in a t-shirt, meaning that it was hot in Eilat........ [...] 16429 55 23_Re: HABONET digest 21690_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:51:54 EST593_US-ASCII Dear Jon: Thank you for your critique. I'm sure that you are correct that others cannot be made responsible for our actions. Still, I think that is a minor point. The intent of my posting was to raise an alternative to unilateral withdrawal -- which, as many have pointed out will be view by the Palestinians as a defeat of Israeli will through the infitada (or put another way, will be seen as Palestinian responsibility for Israeli actions). I too think that current Israeli policies are misguided, ambivalent and confusing. I tried to suggest that a policy of moral responses [...] 16485 56 23_Re: HABONET digest 21690_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 12:59:14 EST368_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/7/02 9:09:17 PM, jzatkin@public2.bta.net.cn writes:

<< As an educator

of small children I find myself daily teaching them that

each of us is responsible for what we choose to do.

We cannot be responsible for what others do (though

we must not fail to be cognizant of what actions of others [...] 16542 17 5_ROSES0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Mar 2002 13:34:56 EST446_US-ASCII If you can afford it- I think as many of us that can should order roses for our sedorim Pesach from Myron...sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16560 42 5_memri13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 08 Mar 2002 05:07:51 +0200125_windows-1255 I would like to draw your attention to the following site which may be of interest.

http://www.memri.org/ 16603 39 35_Fw: OT: 145 Websites about Passover7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:02:13 +0200747_iso-8859-1 tikun forwarded.

----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Richman To: Informal Aliyah discussion group Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 12:55 PM Subject: Re: OT: 145 Websites about Passover



> Shalom. > I should have written: > In Israel 7 days / Outside of Israel 8 days. > Next year I will be more careful. > > Shabbat Shalom, > Jacob > > > ------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------+ > Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org > A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an > online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ > ------------------------ tachlis@shamash.org -----------------------= > [...] 16643 37 29_RE: more on 'refuseniks" etc.12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Fri, 8 Mar 2002 14:30:15 -0500569_- Dennis- Any time someone states an opinion, they are making a judgement. When society imposes consequences, they are making a judgement. I never said anyone was right or wrong. And I introduced my comments by explaining that I felt I was *not* an appropriate person to be standing in judgement of people who are faced with a difficult decision which I have never had to make. But I didn't want Moshe and others to feel that all Haboneters in America share the same opinion that had been expressed earlier. And in response to another posting of yours (I think it [...] 16681 24 29_Re: more on 'refuseniks" etc.0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Mar 2002 15:33:47 EST328_US-ASCII Sharon, I don't think behavior modification would work on that scale either, but I think destroying empty police stations isn't much of a deterrent. Neither is attacking 1 car of terrorists at a time. I don't claim this is the right answer, just that it is in the range of possible responses and worth discussing. [...] 16706 70 29_Re: more on 'refuseniks" etc.13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca36_Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:05:14 -0500 (EST)352_us-ascii Shabbat Shalom,

I find it incredible that at least 42 Palestinians were killed today, and I wonder how long this massive onslought of the Sharon government will continue. I wonder, too, whether he is trying to replicate his war in Lebanon on a far smaller map. I wonder whether he thinks he is playing to public opinion in Israel. [...] 16777 163 56_Re: How many Palestinians will Sharon kill in one day...9_yigalsela18_ysela@inter.net.il30_Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:20:03 +0200450_windows-1255 The following comment of Shlomie has got me putting fingers to keyboard again...." How many Palestinians do Sharon, etc., need to kill in one day before they realise that this is not the way of morality and is not the way to peace?"

Do people really believe that Sharon (substitute for that name ANY Israeli leader past or present for the past 18 months) is going around trigger happy and cutting down innocent Palestinians? [...] 16941 268 56_Re: How many Palestinians will Sharon kill in one day...14_Evelyn Sheskin23_esheskin@mishkei.org.il30_Sat, 9 Mar 2002 10:46:59 +0200549_windows-1255 To Yigalsela: Kol HaKavod. I agree with you whole-heartedly. We are at war...a war which we did not start. If it comes down to "them" or "us" then my preference is for "us" over "them"...We have just as much right to defend ourselves against TERROR and TERRORISTS as the Americans have in defending themselves all the way in Afghanastan! This is MY HOME and I am tired of having to worry every time my children leave the front door if I will get to see them come back home in one piece without being blown up by Palestinians. I am [...] 17210 263 32_MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION -(long)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:28:20 +0200603_iso-8859-1 Subject: MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION -(long) Haverot and Haverim Maxine Kaufman-Lacusta (9th workshop), found me through Shloime Perel. Thanks, Shloime. Hi Maxine. And here I thought I was safely inaccessible. Guess I’ll have to get an unlisted email address :) Maxine wrote after all these years asking: “I wonder if you see any hope in the growing number of reservists refusing to serve? Do you think their numbers can reach the critical mass necessary to catalyze the end of this madness before it reaches (if it hasn’t already) a point of no return?” I believe that the short answer to [...] 17474 102 58_Progressive Zionist Birthright - help recruit participants0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:52:30 EST592_US-ASCII Habonetters:

I want to share with you a way you, Habonim alumni and supporters, can support movement activity and the progressive Zionist cause.

I assume that most of you are familiar with the Birthright program, which enables college students who have never visited Israel on an organized peer trip to go for a FREE 10 day trip to Israel. The Zionist movement has had much internal discussion regarding the worth of the Birthright program and it is not my purpose to kick off a Habonet discussion on that topic. I want to let you know that the movement has taken [...] 17577 42 56_Re: How many Palestinians will Sharon kill in one day...0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Mar 2002 13:02:21 EST315_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/9/02 3:45:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, esheskin@mishkei.org.il writes:



> This is MY HOME and I am tired of having to worry every time my children > leave the front door if I will get to see them come back home in one piece > without being blown up by Palestinians. [...] 17620 182 56_Re: How many Palestinians will Sharon kill in one day...22_Ilan and Lorrie Israel24_ilanori@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:14:57 +0200548_iso-8859-1 Richard, I hope to God you were not making light of the situation of parents here with that one sentence. No matter how we feel about what or who caused this situation or how the hell we can solve it, there is no one here that isn't frightened, or at least wary of what's out there these days. And yeah, sometimes when I'm out on the road with all the knuckleheads speeding, playing chicken or whatever it is they think is going to get them to their destination four seconds earlier if they don't kill themselves or someone else on [...] 17803 168 62_Re: Progressive Zionist Birthright - help recruit participants7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:33:57 +0200705_iso-8859-1 I don't think we in Israel understand exactly what you mean by a "progressive Zionist cause." Is there a nonprogressive/regressive Zionist cause? What makes someone a nonprogressive Zionist? Is someone who lives in Israel progressive/regressive/nonprogressive? What do you call a Zionist who stays in America? If you settle in Jerusalem are you progressive or not? If you live in a kibbutz that has privatized are you progressive or nonprogressive? What size kova tembel does a progressive Zionist wear? pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: KBob24@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Cc: abrochin@wesleyan.edu Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 6:52 PM Subject: Progressive Zionist Birthright [...] 17972 159 56_Re: How many Palestinians will Sharon kill in one day...7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:23:41 +0200533_iso-8859-1 I find such snide remarks very offensive to me as an Israeli and a Jew. Every day we are burying people, we live in daily fear of our lives and of those of our near and dear ones, and to read the remarks of people who are not suffering the terrible losses we are experiencing is very difficult to bear. A little empathy would be in place or at least silence. I am a diplomat compared to some of the letters I am receiving privately from people on this list who are extremely agitated by letters that appear from some [...] 18132 336 56_Re: How many Palestinians will Sharon kill in one day...7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:46:04 +0200545_iso-8859-1 Lorrie, I was NOT writing to those in Israel, because whatever we believe we understand each other and we are undergoing the same trauma. My argument has been with some of those writing this group from abroad who are coming from a different place. When I wrote "nothing is sacred" I did not refer to people, but to arguments. I certainly do not have any answers to what would put an end to this nightmare -- Barak thought he did, and now he knows better. So far, Sharon has not put an end to the bloodshed -- probably because he [...] 18469 108 46_General Oren Shachor: article: To start from A7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:40:24 +0200605_windows-1255 my translation of an opinion piece written by General Shachor. (res). I send it only because I was surprised to see such an article written by General Shachor. (please excuse the poor translation).

In 1995, during the talks with the Palestinians in Taba, Arafat said more than once that there are two alternatives that stand before his eyes on his way to setting up a Palestinian State. One alternative is diplomatic negotiations and the second is a war of independence based on the experience in Lebanon. In those days of 1995 Arafat explained to his listeners that he is trying [...] 18578 144 56_Re: How many Palestinians will Sharon kill in one day...29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net30_Sat, 9 Mar 2002 22:03:26 -0500568_iso-8859-1 my comment has nothing at all to do with the discussion at hand, but just with one comment - "...whatever we believe we understand each other and we are undergoing the same trauma." while i agree that you are probably going through the same trauma, i find it hard to believe that any two people go through the same trauma in the same way, and don't know how you can presume to "understand" someone else based on a shared geography, even with a shared religious background. no two people, with the possible exception of twins, from what i've read, feel [...] 18723 21 23_RE: HABONET digest 217227_Maxene and Frank Perlmutter24_habesor@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 08:19:51 +0200458_US-ASCII Pearl,

Where did the article by Shachor appear and, if it is on the web someplace, could you supply the URL.



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 18745 979 24_The PA Must Be Destroyed12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:38:04 +0200541_windows-1255 Why President Bush Should Declare the Palestinian Authority

a Terrorist Organization

By Jock L. Falkson

falkson@netvision.net.il

March 8, 2002





The US State Department lists 6 Palestinian terrorist organizations which meet their criteria. They are:





1. HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)

2. Hizbollah (Party of God)

3. Palestine Islamic Jihad

4. Palestine Liberation Front

5. Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine [...] 19725 54 23_Re: HABONET digest 21727_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:46:07 +0200601_iso-8859-1 Frankie, shalom and shavua tov! The article appeared in Friday's Makor Rishon. 8.3.02, page 21 of yoman shvuee. Do you want me to send you the original Hebrew article by regular mail??? There is another interesting article by Amnon Lord on page 10 of that section about Ehud Barak's current thinking. Barak spoke at a meeting in a private home: no, to international intervention, no to giving in to terror, yes to open diplomatic door, yes to a separation fence and MOVEMENT (hazaza) of settlements (to blocs of settlements). "At Camp David, I did not place an ultimatum before Arafat [...] 19780 81 22_Re: More on refuseniks10_Jon Zatkin26_jzatkin@public2.bta.net.cn31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:55:00 +0800411_iso-8859-1 Dennis, Shalom rav,

> Thank you for your critique...I mean to place the emphasis on > policy rather than morality, because consistency means predictability and > promotes manipulation and testing.

I'm glad we agree that you've dismissed morality for clear strategic reasons. Once we've agreed that the ends can justify any means, particularly under fire, who can argue against us? [...] 19862 19 22_Re: More on refuseniks0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:14:39 EST426_US-ASCII Jon (Zatkin)

I will have to think about your thoughtful response for a while. Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 19882 3567 24_: [perfeitauniao] Shalom14_Evelyn Sheskin23_esheskin@mishkei.org.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:38:36 +0200567_Windows-1252

Dear Friends, I received this from a friend today. I think it's beautiful and I feel like sharing it with you. Make sure your speakers are on.





SHALOM















"We will have peace with the Arabs when they will love their children more than they hate us." Golda Meir









--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.332 / Virus Database: 186 - Release Date: 06/03/02 23450 89 45_=?iso-8859-1?B?5PLh+OQ6IChubyBzdWJqZWN0KQ==?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 18:40:52 +0200530_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Penciner To: Arny Colodner ; Gaye & Bob Applebaum ; Gaye & Bob Applebaum ; Mollie & Eric Marx ; Sema & George Schwager ; Bernice & Yitz Penciner ; George Marcus ; George Fleischmann Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2002 1:29 PM Subject: (no subject) [...] 23540 102 12_Pretaliation0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:58:46 EST581_US-ASCII Jon,

I appreciate your assessment that the pattern of escalation has been established and proceeding between Israelis and Palestinians. I am also brought up short by your comment that the ends justify the means.

I start with the reality that we cannot change even an instant of history. We must accept the reality of the world as it is at this moment and move hopefully forward from here. This is not to say however, that we cannot, or should not step back from the war and look as dispassionately as we are able at a larger reality, including history. [...] 23643 234 50_preparing meaningful seder for children and family7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:34:28 +0200604_iso-8859-1 Thought this section about getting kids excited about the seder was interesting for parents and teachers out there. How come our parents never thought about this? pearl ----- > Vayikrai 5762 > > Aish HaTorah > SHABBAT SHALOM WEEKLY > BS"D > > GOOD MORNING! Three weeks to Pesach and counting ... It's time to give some thought to making the Seder more enjoyable and effective in creating a warm family experience. Most Jews would like their children to feel positively about being Jewish. You cannot transfer your feelings, but you can create the atmosphere and the experience which will [...] 23878 115 28_Best of all possible worlds?12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 11 Mar 2002 21:04:36 +0200583_us-ascii

Haverim and Haverot, Since I sent the posting on the mother and child reunion there seems to have been a paroxysm of escalation. I don't know whether it betokens a last gasp of this stage in the intifada or only another awful day with worse to come. The jury is not in yet. When optimists claim that this is the best of all possible worlds, pessimists agree with them, saying "that's exactly the trouble with it." Mark Twain was billed as a Jewish Optimist when he said, "I've had many catastrophes in my ifefortunately most of them didn't materialize." Still, [...] 23994 22 29_Looking for Caspi and Twersky0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 01:52:36 EST565_US-ASCII Dear Abba and David,

Since Home.com seems to be disabled (permanently or temporarily, I don't know) - are there alternate email addresses for you????

I'm writing to Habonet, but please answer me back privately. Aliya

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 24017 114 13_An Invitation19_Elinore Koenigsfeld19_elinore@macam.ac.il31_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:11:52 +0200570_windows-1255 An invitation! I would like to invite you to my upcoming art show, pastPresentFUTURE, which will be at Bet Gabriel from March 25 to April 20. The opening is March 30 at 11:00.

This is an installation--a total enviornment, an experience, hopefully more that the sum of its parts. It consists of sculpture, light-up boxes and wonderful music by Tzvi Avni, one of Israel's formost composers and winner of the 2001 Israel Prize. The main theme is the interconnection of past, present and future, of all peoples, of ourselves in this web of meaning. [...] 24132 74 17_Re: An Invitation12_Ilana Berner20_ilanabr@bezeqint.net31_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:50:05 +0200366_windows-1255 hi elinore,

don't know if we can actually make the opening but would like to see the exhibit. please send 4 invites to ilana berner, 23 harimon st., pob 4737, caesarea 38900.

thank you ilana and tzvia

"A Room With A (Pool) View" B&B Ilana & Tzvia Hostesses Caesarea, Israel 050-624710 04 6363936 http://www.caesarea-b-and-b.150m.com 24207 117 48_Amos Oz in NYT - Two Stubborn Men, and Many Dead11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:09:47 -0500545_iso-8859-1 March 12, 2002

Two Stubborn Men, and Many Dead

By AMOS OZ

ARAD, Israel — On Saturday night a 9-month old baby girl, an Israeli, was murdered in Netanya by a group of Palestinian gunmen. A few days earlier another baby girl, a Palestinian, was blown up by an Israeli bomb. Innocent civilians are dying, killed on both sides nearly every day. They are dying not because there is no way of resolving the crisis, but, on the contrary, they are dying precisely because a way exists and is known very well by all. [...] 24325 227 52_Re: Amos Oz in NYT - Two Stubborn Men, and Many Dead13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:55:47 -0500 (EST)635_us-ascii Greetings! I believe that ultimately the argument on the future of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza revolves around a seperate Palestinian state and mutual recognition and reconcilliation Vs. the Kahane solution. The Kahane solution (or whateve you want to call it) assumes that the majority of Israeli Jews want to live in a nationally homogenious society and to that end would support "what it takes." Conceivably, the poll underestimates the support for "transfer," since it was done through face-to-face interviews, and some of the respondants might have been reluctant to fully express what they think. In any case, I [...] 24553 49 11_kova tembel11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:35:58 -0500328_iso-8859-1 My hebrew is rusty. I know it was the simple hats we wore in the fields and at camp, but doesn't Kova Tembel translate to something like "fool's cap"?

Here's an exerpt from a Thomas Friedman column from March 10 with some sobering thoughts for those who make fun of progressives and voices of moderation. [...] 24603 78 52_Re: Amos Oz in NYT - Two Stubborn Men, and Many Dead0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:40:47 EST423_US-ASCII > Conceivably, the poll underestimates the support for > "transfer," since it was done through face-to-face > interviews, and some of the respondants might have > been reluctant to fully express what they think

How ironic.. I remember when support for a Palestinian state was considered traitorous . Remember the intensely controversial "Yariv-Shemtov" territories for peace formula, proposed in 1974? [...] 24682 43 40_more on Yariv-Shemtov and Public Opinion0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:11:33 EST389_US-ASCII Here's a fascinating article I found on the state of things at the time of Israel's 50th anniversary in 1998: . Seems like it was written last week. At the very least, it does a good job of separating the people from the "leadership" (or lack thereof).

--brian

----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com 24726 91 14_Labor Haggadah16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:07:44 -0500680_us-ascii JEWISH LABOR COMMITTEE PASSOVER HAGGADAH AVAILABLE Nu? Why is this haggadah different from all other haggadahs? While most other haggadahs stick to the retelling of the story of the Exodus from Egypt, this Haggadah also includes graphics and texts to help relate the historical retelling with a range of quotes to relate "what happened then" to what happened in our own time. With descriptions of the occupations of Tamudic-era rabbis, with quotations from [deep breath] Samuel Gompers, Berl Katznelson, Philo, Cesar Chavez, Harold Schulweis, Yariv Ben Aharon, David Dubinsky, Albert Memmi, Hanoch of Alexandria, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Rose Schneiderman, Sidney [...] 24818 34 55_Habonim Dancers To Open This Sunday's Dance Festival!!!0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:51:34 EST432_US-ASCII Believe it or not, because of the superruach, yelping and hollering along with Sam Bergman's fabulous choreography (alumni ensemble), Bruce Temkin and Hiam Simon's extra stylizations, and Naomi Goldberg Honor's wonderful choreography of the kids' ensemble, Habonim Dror has been asked to open the Festival of 250 dancers this coming SundayMarch 17th! The Festival Directors said they wanted our ruach to set the tone! [...] 24853 33 41_Jerusalem Post Mail Article From A Friend11_Jamie Levin22_Mazkir@habonimdror.org37_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 17:14:57 +0200 (IST)417_- Hello,

Your friend Jamie Levin (Mazkir@habonimdror.org) sent you the following article:





Mofaz orders halt to marking prisoners' arms with numbers By Nina Gilbert

Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Shaul Mofaz yesterday said he has ordered the IDF to immediately stop marking numbers on the forearms of Palestinians who have been detained in the recent sweep of refugee camps. [...] 24887 21 15_Re: kova tembel0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:48:34 EST371_US-ASCII A week or so ago I posted the question of whether based on history we are intended to have a state. It did not provoke a response. Amnon's last posting in which he referred to Jewish history having two key events the Exodus and the Bar Kochba revolt, raises the same question. Maybe we should look again at the language of the covenant with Abraham. Dennis [...] 24909 22 52_Re: Amos Oz in NYT - Two Stubborn Men, and Many Dead0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:52:30 EST580_US-ASCII Brian,

It often strikes me as I read these pages that the visions of negotiated peace are difficult to put into practice when an unseen person is sending steel projectiles and explosives at your car, home, children, or self.

Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 24932 29 15_Re: kova tembel0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:05:26 EST562_US-ASCII Dennis, As Natan Alterman once said the State was not delivered on a silver platter and as someone else once said "it is not created by decree... So I have no concern whether the Lord God Almighty decreed it or presented it

The State of Israel exists because the Jews like all other nations have the inherent right to their own political state. My right to a state does not invalidate the Palestinian right to a state it in fact only strengthens their argument for a free and independent state of their own ... on the other hand their right [...] 24962 100 15_Re: kova tembel13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:12 -0500 (EST)552_us-ascii In Habonim, in the old days, the question was sometimes posed as to "What kind of state, what kind of Israel do we want?"

The recent Jaffee Center (at Tel Aviv U.) random survey has it that 60 percent of the respondants would like the Israeli Arabs to leave. I believe that this type of perspective (a polite way of calling it), as well as other, related ones, ultimately have everything to do with the huge assault on the West Bank going on at this very moment. For no Israeli government after the Six Day War has been willing to [...] 25063 54 52_Re: Amos Oz in NYT - Two Stubborn Men, and Many Dead0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:34:41 EST336_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/13/2002 11:52:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, DLerner569@aol.com writes:

> It often strikes me as I read these pages that the visions of negotiated > peace are difficult to put into practice when an unseen person is sending > steel projectiles and explosives at your car, home, children, or self. [...] 25118 114 82_=?iso-8859-1?Q?=93Yes,_sir=94_is_darkness_out_of_which_light?= will never be born.12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:12:59 +0200367_us-ascii Haverot and Haverim,

I promised "Tomorrow I’m going to recount a chilling and empowering story. Please stay tuned in" But, Scheherazade-like I will really tell it on the day after tomorrow a ploy to ensure longevity. What follows now is speech made 84 years ago by Rahel Katznelson that still has bearing on the issue of conscientious objection. [...] 25233 135 76_Via, Shloime Perel [Fwd: Arthur Waskow: URGENT ACTION IN THE PRESENT CRISIS]13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Wed, 13 Mar 2002 19:07:46 -0500 (EST)554_us-ascii Greetings! I got this from a long time friend, whom I first met in Los Angeles Habonim.

Shloime > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 4:16 AM > Subject: URGENT ACTION IN THE PRESENT CRISIS > > > > Dear Friends, I strongly urge that Jewish > organizations and individuals > > each at once issue a statement like so, below. I > urge this be done by > letters > > to the editor of local papers (general, Jewish, > and "alternative" ) by > ohone > > [...] 25369 49 36_Zionist Election - Vote for Slate #90_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 04:36:05 EST335_US-ASCII Chevre, shalom

By now, those of you who registered to vote in the Zionist Election have received your ballots in the mail.

FYI approximately 25% of the alumni on the roster of the Habonim Dror Foundation have registered. Lo nora! That's up from 5% in the last election in 1997. We've come a long way, baby! [...] 25419 34 36_Re: first met in Los Angeles Habonim0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 01:30:36 EST690_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/14/02 12:15:00 AM, habonet@shamash.org writes:

<< Greetings! I got this from a long time friend, whom I first met in Los Angeles Habonim.

Shloime >> =============================== Shloime, shalom

Arthur Waskow?

Los Angeles Habonim?

Gilboa Chanich gam?

What years?

Chaver Steve

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 25454 976 72_And now for something different from the defeatist garbage we're used to12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:24:47 +0200943_windows-1255 Sign up for these ezines:

Manhigut Yehudit weekly email aliza@zoartzeinu.org

"cyber samizdat"

Gail Winston

ISRAEL RESOURCE NEWS AGENCY

Professor Paul Eidelberg



"WINSTON MID EAST ANALYSIS & COMMENTARY"

Women In Green

imra-subscribe@imra.org.il

http://subscribe.IsraelNationalNews.com



***********************

It's really so simple By Moshe Feiglin

The Arab tribes in Eretz Israel have declared war on us and we don't know what to do. Our blood is being spilt everywhere and people are afraid to leave their homes. The whole country is in a state of fear, and an endless collection of politicians and political commentators are running round [...] 26431 185 15_Hakibbutz-poll-13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:19:26 +0200493_windows-1255 I believe that quite a few of Habonet members may be interested in a poll just published by HaKibbutz, the 10th and 11th of March. The poll, carried out by Dr.Mina Tsemer of the Dahaf Institute, interviewed 500 members of the Central committee of the Labour Pary, out of 1700 total membership. The margin of error is 4.5% +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1. With the present political situation, should the Labour party stay in the coalition or leave? A: Stay- 70% Leave- 28% [...] 26617 60 23_Change of email address13_Sara Freedman20_sefreedman@attbi.com31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 06:53:17 -0600314_iso-8859-1 Due to changes in the global marketplace, my email address has been changed to sefreedman@attbi.com effective immediately.

I would appreciate continuing to receive any email messages you wish to send to me so please change my address in your address book. Thank you, Sara Freedman



26678 23 75_Re: And now for something different from the defeatist garbage we're usedto11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:08:12 -0500514_us-ascii Dear Doug,

Since you find our postings to be garbage, and you are not a habonim alumnus, I wonder why you feel compelled to continue to post here and insult us?

Noam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 26702 121 19_Re: Hakibbutz-poll-9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:31:58 -0500623_windows-1255 Interesting survey. What was the ranking of the 26 Labour Members? And what do you think of Labour remaining in the national coalition government at this time?

Reuven S. Montreal ----- Original Message ----- From: moshe sheskin To: habonet Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:19 AM Subject: Hakibbutz-poll- I believe that quite a few of Habonet members may be interested in a poll just published by HaKibbutz, the 10th and 11th of March. The poll, carried out by Dr.Mina Tsemer of the Dahaf Institute, interviewed 500 members of the Central committee of the Labour Pary, out of 1700 total membership. [...] 26824 68 76_Re: And now for something different from the defeatist garbage we're used to9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:33:33 -0500282_windows-1255 defeatist garbage? Since when is concern for human rights defeatist garbage? ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Greener To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 5:24 AM Subject: And now for something different from the defeatist garbage we're used to 26893 47 25_state of the list address0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:04:29 EST580_US-ASCII Hi All.

In over 6 years or so of its existence, Habonet has really come a long way as a community IMHO. I am surprised at times by the extreme range of opinion, but I am equally impressed with the self regulating tone and general regard and respect for these differences, even though opinions tend to be the source of unbelievable frustration and tension otherwise. This is a good thing. Of course there remain moments of anger, and threats of leaving (usually followed by please to stay!), but there is a core that remains drawn and committed, and there are [...] 26941 54 29_Re: state of the list address0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:12:04 EST345_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/14/2002 11:05:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, Brianscoop@aol.com writes:



> ...please to stay

Sorry about that! Spell checkers can't help there... Sounds like broken English, but of course, I meant " followed by pleas to stay."

:)

Please to have a good Shabbat, brian



26996 114 31_ArtScroll Passover Preparations16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 11:35:03 -0500555_us-ascii SINK CLEANING:

The kitchen sink must be scoured with hot water and cleanser before it is Kosher for Passover use. Achieve this by scrubbing and rinsing 18 times. No more, no less.

If more than 18 seconds elapses between scrubbings, you must begin the entire cycle over again. You must use 6 ounces of cleanser (for the 6 days God took to create the world) and this must be dispensed with exactly 10 shakes of the container (for the 10 commandments which Hashem, the Holy one, Blessed be He, has bestowed on His People Israel). [...] 27111 122 28_further to the poll by Dahaf13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:47:50 +0200642_windows-1255 Further to the poll of the Central Committee of the Labour Party, This is the ranking of the 26 Labour Members? The poll asked "Whom would you like to see in the first 10 places in the next Knesset.

1. Matan Vilnai-83% 2. Ophir Pinas-83% 3. Shimon Peres-70% 4. Ephraim Sneh-70% 5. Chaim Ramon-64% 6. Avraham Burg-59% 7. Shlomo Ben-Ami-58% 8. Dahlia Itzik-58% 9. Yosi Beilin-42% 10. Yuli Tamir-40% 11. Avraham Beigah Shochat-37% 12. Shalom Shimchon-36% 13. Dahlia Rabin Philosof-36% 14. Collette Avital-30% 15. Michal Melchior-30% 16. Eitan Cabal-28% 17. Raanan Cohen-25% 18. Yael Dayan-24% 19. Epi Oshaya-23% 20. Avi [...] 27234 17 35_Re: ArtScroll Passover Preparations0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:03:38 EST416_US-ASCII This is honesty and irreverence with which all our postings should "smack" Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 27252 247 32_Re: further to the poll by Dahaf9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:03:45 -0500583_windows-1255 Thanks for the information. The poll is somewhat surprising by virtue of the percentage who would prefer to see Ephraim Sneh in leadership is greater than Avrum Burg. What explains his dramatic decline?

A question which arises concerning Labour's continued participation in the unity government is, how is it supposed to create its own distinctive identity within the party? How can it rise above its present doldrums and present a convincing policy alternative? How is it supposed to mobilize interest in a membership which is often described as apathetic? [...] 27500 302 30_More "love" from our "cousins"13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:13:23 +0200362_windows-1255 Please note that this shit was published in a Saudi government publication and that the author is a professor. No wonder they don't want to make peace with us. Who would want to shake hands with a vampire?

Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 Special Dispatch No. 354: Saudi Government Daily: Jews Use Teenagers' Blood for 'Purim' Pastries [...] 27803 88 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:15:59 -0500416_windows-1255 What is the source for this article? ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: Habonet Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:13 PM Subject: More "love" from our "cousins"



Please note that this shit was published in a Saudi government publication and that the author is a professor. No wonder they don't want to make peace with us. Who would want to shake hands with a vampire? [...] 27892 46 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:20:45 +0200111_windows-1255 I found the article at the site of the Middle East Media Research Institute. http://www.memri.org/ 27939 80 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:25:53 -0500348_windows-1255 the memri research institute is a propaganda organization.

----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Thursday, March 14, 2002 2:20 PM Subject: Re: More "love" from our "cousins"



I found the article at the site of the Middle East Media Research Institute. http://www.memri.org/ 28020 42 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:30:29 +020088_windows-1255 Maybe so. How did you like the article itself? How's that for "propaganda"? 28063 23 32_off list behavior counts as well0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:56:32 EST629_US-ASCII Chaverim,

If you receive any off-list nasty emails in response to messages you've posted to Habonet, I urge you to forward them to me. This an unacceptable offense against list etiquette and a threat to our ability to conduct friendly, productive, and inclusive discussions.

brian

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 28087 188 34_RE: More "love" from our "cousins"11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:18:52 -0800518_windows-1255 You can also check http://www.arabia.com They have several polls running about the ME situation.Here is a sample:

Sharon's biggest fear should be: 433 Responses:

International denunciation for his policies 14% A breakup in his fragile coalition government 22% The next bomb explosion might be in his house 64%





Do you think that Saudi Arabia's crown Prince Abdullah Bin Abdul Aziz should visit Israel to discuss his peace initiative? 651 Responses: Yes 64% No 36% [...] 28276 164 79_Re: Via, Shloime Perel [Fwd: Arthur Waskow: URGENT ACTION IN THE PRESENTCRISIS]7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 14:18:46 +0200622_iso-8859-1 so glad someone is looking out for Palestinian human rights. Is there anyone out there looking out for ours? This letter below affectively tells the world that Israel has no right to defend itself. If a band of Mexican terrorists would attack Americans across the border America would have absolutely NO right to pursue and disarm the terrorists on Mexican territory? They would allow the terrorists to continue to come through the border and kill and maim american citizens with no recourse? Israel went into the territories now to stop terrorist attacks that have destroyed hundreds of families here. It [...] 28441 69 36_Re: first met in Los Angeles Habonim13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:55:55 -0500 (EST)530_us-ascii Dear Steve,

You asked about which LA Habonim person I was referring to vis-a-vis the email she sent me from Arthur Waskow. Thanks for asking. I was talking about Maxine Kaufman, who later became Maxine Kaufman-Nunn. She has a somewhat different last name now, which I don't have on hand, at the moment. Maxine was on Workshop in Gesher Haziv in 1960-61 and now lives in Vancouver. She is the translator of a book on Jerusalem, written by (excuse my spelling) Meiron Benveniste. Were you in LA Habonim, Steve? [...] 28511 391 16_more from waskow0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:22:20 EST350_US-ASCII The first time I ever heard of Waskow was in 1971 or 1972, when I attended a community seder held by Hillel at West Virginia University . It was the Freedom Seder that had been written by Arthur Waskow, and I was appalled and disgusted at the time because there were so many four-letter words in it (I think it has since been revised). [...] 28903 55 21_purchases from Israel11_Greg Taylor25_gttaylor@worldnet.att.net31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:01:44 -0500366_iso-8859-1 Since now is probably not a good time to visit Israel, could people on the list put out websites for Israeli products that could be ordered on line for those of us who would like to support Israel economically. I know someone did that before, but I would appreciate it if they did it again. Posting the website of roses from Israel was a great idea. [...] 28959 97 36_Re: first met in Los Angeles Habonim11_Sue Mackson16_susiem6@juno.com31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 18:13:02 -0500599_- A small correction

Maxine Kaufman was on the 9th workshop (first at Gesher Haziv) 1959-60. I was with her then.

She is originally from San Francisco and has spent time at Bir Zeit U.

Susie Mackson

On Thu, 14 Mar 2002 17:55:55 -0500 (EST) Shloime Perel writes: > Dear Steve, > > You asked about which LA Habonim person I was > referring to vis-a-vis the email she sent me from > Arthur Waskow. Thanks for asking. I was talking about > Maxine Kaufman, who later became Maxine Kaufman-Nunn. > She has a somewhat different last name now, which [...] 29057 39 47_Re: ArtScroll Passover Preparations - an answer0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:22:04 EST607_US-ASCII After reading Brian's amazing notation on Artscroll Pesach rules, I'd like to offer my brother-in-law, Solomon Mowshowitz's straight forward directives. ps. He's a former Yeshivah bocher, but very realistic. I asked how you are supposed to manage kashering for Pesach when you're 'old and gray' and not very energetic and he answered: 'Bi'ur Chametz - getting rid of Chametz. It is a Mitzvah to find chametz in your house and destroy or get rid of it.. However, no amount of bi'ur chametz actually makes your house legally free of chametz since even one molecule of it counts. What makes your [...] 29097 44 47_Re: ArtScroll Passover Preparations - an answer0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:51:11 EST289_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/14/02 7:23:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, Judithb253@aol.com writes:



> After reading Brian's amazing notation on Artscroll Pesach rules

Not me Judy.. I had nothing to with that. Someone else's post - though I found it funny.

--brian 29142 34 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:13:01 -0500545_us-ascii Thank you, Jonathan, for the "informative" article. I always wondered what made homentashen taste so ... special.

On a serious note, I have read for the past several years that blood libels and other features of European antisemitism had been on the rise in the Arab/Muslim world. It is a sad commentary that articles such as that by Dr. Jalahma are likely to be widely disseminated and widely believed. Not unlike the rumor that 4000 Jews had been warned by Israel to stay home from work at the World Trade Center on 9/11. [...] 29177 18 47_Re: ArtScroll Passover Preparations - an answer0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 20:18:03 EST375_US-ASCII Judy, can I send this out?

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 29196 32 59_Re: Habonim Dancers To Open This Sunday's Dance Festival!!!0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 22:50:16 EST73_US-ASCII Congrats to our dancers, young and........less young.

Ken 29229 76 50_great idea greg - Purchases and Services in Israel12_Ilana Berner20_ilanabr@bezeqint.net31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 08:36:14 +0200403_iso-8859-1 News Flash: Ilana Berner, Habonim Alumni from Los Angeles and Eighth Workshop opens an amazing Bed & Breakfast in Historic Caesarea, Israel.

Please see our web site: http://www.caesarea-b-and-b.150m.com



"A Room With A (Pool) View" B&B Ilana & Tzvia Hostesses Caesarea, Israel 050-624710 04 6363936 ilanabr@bezeqint.net

http://www.caesarea-b-and-b.150m.com

29306 41 47_Re: ArtScroll Passover Preparations - an answer13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 02:03:46 -0500515_us-ascii Dear Judy B,

I know you mean well but I have to ask: Why is selling chametz to a "goy" a reasonable alternative? Who are you fooling--yourself or God? And if you believe in a God you can fool by "selling" your chametz, how do you justify that? Your brother-in-law's answer is a very traditional one, focusing on the technicality of ownership rather than on the meaning of the mitzvah--to set the holiday apart by symbolically cleansing our homes (ourselves) so that we start afresh in freedom. [...] 29348 79 17_Let's get to work12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 14 Mar 2002 12:36:48 +0200532_windows-1255 Israel lagging behind in Web information war By Judy Siegel February, 13 2002 JERUSALEM (February 13) - Israel's use of the Internet to disseminate its point of view in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is "one of the biggest failures in the information campaign," MK Nehama Ronen said yesterday during a joint session of the Knesset Science and Technology Committee and Defense Committee. She said that she found 3,000 to 4,000 pro-Palestinian Web sites "directed from above," while Israel has nothing comparable. [...] 29428 312 29_Ma'arive poll- Friday 15/3/0213_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:32:45 +0200449_windows-1255 Latest Poll-Ma'ariv Friday, 15/5/02 by MARKET WATCH ======================================== Whom would you prefer to be the head of the Likud in the next elections and as such, the candidate for Prime Minister. Netanyahu-30% (previous poll 35%) Sharon-26% (previous poll-25%)

Your preferene for Prime Minister in the next elections, Sharon or Ben-Eliezer? Sharon-41% (previous poll 47%) Ben-Eliezer-16% (previous poll-22%) [...] 29741 147 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:51:19 -0500578_windows-1255 Hi Jon, The article is disgusting, and the ignorance, prejudice and hate it exemplifies is an invitation to brutality. But what is the purpose of the article? Given the fact that the Saudis have made a peace proposal, and that the United States, the United Nations and Israel have endorsed it, the pattern of the right (i.e. those who claim the territories) has been to a) discredit the authors of the plan/ b) discredit the plan itself; pretend to accept it, and then torpedo it. It is no accident that a peace by some saudi hatemonger appears, but what does [...] 29889 172 47_Correction - Re: More "love" from our "cousins"9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 11:50:55 -0500535_iso-8859-1 Hi Jon, The article is disgusting, and the ignorance, prejudice and hate it exemplifies is an invitation to brutality.

But what is the purpose of the article?

Given the fact that the Saudis have made a peace proposal, and that the United States, the United Nations and Israel have endorsed it, the pattern of the right (i.e. those who claim the territories) has been to; a) discredit the authors of the plan; b) discredit the plan itself; or as Sharon has done, pretend to accept it, and then torpedo it. [...] 30062 18 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"0_13_JLCAA@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:28:02 EST409_US-ASCII Please explain. Are you saying their translations are inaccurate? Avi Lyon

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 30081 31 14_Likrat Shabbat0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:48:46 EST582_US-ASCII Out here is sunny southern California, the weather has been magnificent; sometimes windy, but always (mostly) sunny and beautiful; even when there is a storm, the light shines with colors of nature all around- blues and greens- springtime flowers, and the smells of Eucalyptus as one drives through the canyons... Trivial in light of the world situation, but it gives me a boost of energy and hope that every new day I am alive, I can try and do something worthwhile; Pesach is around the corner; there may be a peace, some kind of peace, soon; my children are happy, [...] 30113 43 29_Re: state of the list address0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 15:57:01 EST289_US-ASCII Folks:

This is a good opportunity to thanks Brian for all the work he has done since we began Habonet 6 years ago.It began as an innocent "hey, Brian, how do we do this listserv?" and has resulted in a lively and productive online machaneh that he has managed for us. [...] 30157 90 29_Re: state of the list address13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 16:58:17 -0500 (EST)555_us-ascii Dear Brian,

I hope you have a really good stay in Israel and a good Pesach. I look forward to your Habonet communiques, to your impressions and analysis.

Shloime

--- Brianscoop@aol.com wrote: > Hi All. > > In over 6 years or so of its existence, Habonet has > really come a long way as > a community IMHO. I am surprised at times by the > extreme range of opinion, > but I am equally impressed with the self regulating > tone and general regard > and respect for these differences, even though > opinions tend to be the [...] 30248 211 31_A chilling and empowering story12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 00:11:03 +0200636_iso-8859-1







Haverim/ot Our daughter Smadar asked me if I wanted to go to a symposium on the seruvnkim-refusnniks entitled: The Obligation to Obey, The Right to Refuse, and The Margins of Democracy held at the Herzliya Interdisciplinary Center. I really wanted to go both because of the subject and because I’ve been carrying around a vivid 28 year memory of an encounter with one of the participants, brigadier general Dovik Tamari. Sadly, I was unable to attend. After Oren fell I had a strong need to be close to frontline soldiers. Trusting me despite the speculation that a bereaved father might [...] 30460 233 35_Re: A chilling and empowering story13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 17:22:28 -0500 (EST)581_us-ascii Dear Amnon,

Thanks very much for your latest Habonet letter, about which I might have a few questions. But I'd like to ask you first about Oren. Can you elaborate?

All the best on Shabbat,

Shloime --- Amnon Hadary wrote: > > > > > Haverim/ot > Our daughter Smadar asked me if I wanted to go to a > symposium on the > seruvnkim-refusnniks entitled: The Obligation to > Obey, The Right to > Refuse, and The Margins of Democracy held at the > Herzliya Interdisciplinary > Center. I really wanted to go both because of the > [...] 30694 36 35_Re: A chilling and empowering story0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:32:13 EST389_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/15/02 2:10:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, amriv@netvision.net.il writes:

> The voting and graft address of the > Israeli detachment of this nation of priests is in Bnei Brak and Mea > Shearim. The American detachment thinks that it lives at The University of > Judaism on the West coast but its Vatican is in Satmar land on the > Atlantic seaboard. [...] 30731 88 29_Re: state of the list address29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:43:13 -0500502_iso-8859-1 here, here! -esther cohen mosh/washington, dc ----- Original Message ----- From: KBob24@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 3:57 PM Subject: Re: state of the list address



Folks:

This is a good opportunity to thanks Brian for all the work he has done since we began Habonet 6 years ago.It began as an innocent "hey, Brian, how do we do this listserv?" and has resulted in a lively and productive online machaneh that he has managed for us. [...] 30820 46 29_Re: state of the list address0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:50:09 EST369_US-ASCII Thanks Ken. Thanks Shloime. My wife and two daughters are spending 6 months in Israel, and I am basically going to just hang out with them. Of course, if I can convince the various factions to disarm while I'm there, I'll be sure to write about it! :) Maybe Nancy will have some impressions from their more long term perspective that will be of interest. [...] 30867 31 35_Re: A chilling and empowering story0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 20:00:35 EST605_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/16/02 6:09:49 AM, amriv@netvision.net.il writes:

<< The American detachment thinks that it lives at The University of

Judaism on the West coast but its Vatican is in Satmar land on the

Atlantic seaboard. >>

I must be naive or stupid- but I don't understand this? Are you saying that American Jews are basically peons of the Extreme Orthodox Satmer ? I thought that fewer than 23% of American Jews are affiliated with shuls ( startling to me, since this is the main way they look at Judaism)..so you must be talkng about a very few in [...] 30899 25 35_Re: A chilling and empowering story13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 22:06:47 -0500412_us-ascii Dear Amnon,

I also don't get the reference to the U of J which, being a east coast girl, I only know through its well trained liberal and mostly zionist alumni. I usually follow what you say (slowly, I'll admit) but I don't understand where you were coming from, where you were going or where you ended up on this one. Can you give the sicha again, this time more simply for all us dummies? [...] 30925 21 31_A chilling and empowering story12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:52:40 +0200304_us-ascii I goofed but even that has a silver lining. You find out you have friends when you let go with a gaffe (goof - gaffe, can you tell I'm flustered?) They cut you some slack and say: Huh? So to you, Shloime, Debbie, Susie and Judy: todah haverim. I promise to reread, regroup and reply. Amnon [...] 30947 44 12_simple sicha12_Stan Goldman17_stan@zahav.net.il31_Sun, 16 Mar 2003 11:19:29 +0200116_windows-1255 I am one of the ' dummies " who like Judith Gelman would like Ammon to give the sicha again more simply 30992 29 31_A chilling and empowering story12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:47:52 +0200323_us-ascii

I wrote: >I goofed but even that has a silver lining. You find out you have friends when you let go with a gaffe (goof - gaffe, can you tell I'm flustered?) They cut you some slack and say: Huh? So to you, Shloime, Debbie, Susie and Judy: todah haverim. I promise to reread, regroup and reply. Amnon< [...] 31022 44 4_cbc-13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 12:17:44 +0200105_windows-1255 This site may be of interest:

http://CBNnow.com/cbnnews/news/020308c.asp

Moshe 31067 21 18_Re: Likrat Shabbat0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:06:02 EST467_US-ASCII Sue, Whether for Shabbat, Pesach, or Tuesday, I am glad that you are there to lift hearts and spirits.

Shabbat Shalom. Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 31089 64 12_Another view0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 08:46:57 EST564_US-ASCII I am not a Saudi Prince (surprise). If the Saudi Prince's "vision" is to be the basis of renewed negotiation, there must be another vision representing the Israeli negotiating position. I think I can predict what it will be (as can you). We will want to keep those Goal highlands, some tricky work will have to be done on Jerusalem, water rights have to be agreed upon, the right of return has to disappear, we will argue for some settlements to remain as part of Israel, but not very hard. There will be minor border adjustments. The West Bank will [...] 31154 86 31_A chilling and empowering story12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:11:04 +0200551_us-ascii A while ago I wrote: I goofed but even that has a silver lining. You find out you have friends when you let go with a gaffe (goof - gaffe, can you tell I'm flustered?) They cut you some slack and say: Huh? So to you, Shloime, Debbie, Susie and Judy: todah haverim. I promise to reread, regroup and reply. Amnon< What went wrong is that I browsed through a drashah by Rabbi B. Shavit Artson which gave me hives. It sounded neo-Orthodox so without checking I assumed that the Ziegler School of Rabbinic Studies is a California offshoot of [...] 31241 266 11_Perspective9_yigalsela18_ysela@inter.net.il31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:05:24 +0200382_windows-1255 A passed this on to me. Every now and then, a real gem comes along that puts things in the right perspective. What follows below is from the Baltimore Jewish Times. It is a response to Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Abdullah's proposal to have Israel return to its pre 1967 borders in order for the Arab countries to make peace with Israel. It is well worth reading. [...] 31508 105 56_From Haaretz/ The "local color' of the current situation13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:38:41 -0500 (EST)546_us-ascii Shabbat Shalom!

It occurs to me that on Shabbat, we should take a special interest in thinking about and discussing how we can further shalom. In this way, we can contribute to living up to the words "Shabbat Shalom". Often, "Shabbat Shalom" is used in a kind of routine way, as if to say "hi" on Shabbat. But what if we were to take it seriously in its literal sense? Shouln't it mean that if we can take Shabbat more seriously by linking it to peace, and in this sense the idea of Shabbat will transcend the day itself (as [...] 31614 440 20_Fw: more from waskow7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 15 Mar 2002 18:19:45 +0200656_iso-8859-1 > Debbie > COURAGE FRIENDS to subscribe by writing > > > Check out our Website (To change address or unsub see end > of this post.) > ****************************************** > > Dear Chevra, > > Chodesh Nisan tov!! > > May the month of Pesach help us free ourselves again! > > This essay/commentary by Rabbi David Seidenberg on the Haggadah will soon be > on the *Shalom Center Website > www.shalomctr.org. Already there (and specially marked on the Home Page) > are other resources for Pesach -- > > "The Rainbow Seder," on the oppression the [...] 32055 65 38_on attachments and quoting of articles0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 15:39:23 EST311_US-ASCII Recently, there has been a serious escalation in tactics on Habonet! We are now seeing excessive attacks of full length articles, quoting verbatim of journalists we like and who agree with us. I know I much prefer to learn the opinions and sentiments of Habonet subscribers through our own words. [...] 32121 39 42_Re: on attachments and quoting of articles13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:02:58 +020048_iso-8859-1 Ok, ok. So when are you coming Brian? 32161 38 42_Re: on attachments and quoting of articles0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:47:56 EST393_US-ASCII THANK YOU, LISTMOM BC!!!

In a message dated 3/16/02 12:40:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, Brianscoop@aol.com writes:

> We have been promised by Shamash, > that a future upgrade of our list software will enable us to reject > attachments.



Good......I'm already on a few yahoogroups which are set to reject attachments, but......

AOL MEMBERS ALERT [...] 32200 155 35_Our self-appointed settler warlords0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:58:13 EST527_US-ASCII

Our self-appointed settler warlords

By Doron Rosenblum







Borne mainly on rivers of blood and Palestinian terror, a grim spectacle unfolded at Rabin Square this week, ostensibly closing a tragic circle - "Shir Lashalom" ("Song of Peace") replaced by cries of "Israel demands war!" at the rally of settlers and their supporters. At Rabin Square, of all places, the settlers, of all people, came to dance on the grave of hope for peace and blow the shrill trumpet of war. [...] 32356 61 42_Re: on attachments and quoting of articles0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:08:55 EST342_US-ASCII AOL MEMBERS ALERT

Should you be using AOL 6.0 or 7.0, there may be times that what you sent out

as a plain ol' email arrives at its designation as an attachment, in which case it will be rejected by the software mentioned above.

To avoid this, you can use AOL 5.0 or do it by going to www.aol.com and doing [...] 32418 51 35_Re: A chilling and empowering story0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:10:21 EST352_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/16/02 1:44:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, amriv@netvision.net.il writes:



> listserv@uj.edu > > >

Amnon, could you be a bit more specific about WHICH article? I got to this website with no problem and did a search on Artson, but don't see what you mean, still. Do you mean "God of Space and Time?" [...] 32470 62 42_Re: on attachments and quoting of articles0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:14:36 EST557_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/16/02 3:10:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, Brianscoop@aol.com writes:



> You are absolutely right about that. AOL 7.0 is a curse. One way I try to > avoid that sometimes, is to write my email in a text editor and then copy > and paste to AOL. This is ridiculous and tedious though. I have hopes that > AOL 8.0 will be more intelligent (but this is probably just wishful > thinking). Another path -- the one toward which I am heading -- is to leave > AOL all together. Anyway, thanks for your comments Debbie. > [...] 32533 47 42_Re: on attachments and quoting of articles0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:30:13 EST442_US-ASCII You'd be surprised how liberating it can be once you've let go! And how appropriate during the Pesach season -- holiday of personal and national liberation. I'm encourage by the fact that in Israel Nancy is now using -- and enjoying -- non-AOL alternatives! And, btw, MSN Messenger works quite well for IM, and people on AOL can use it too. And I believe that anyone can use AOL's AIM application independent of an AOL account. [...] 32581 35 49_IM (was - on attachments and quoting of articles)0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 18:59:01 EST265_US-ASCII Regarding interaction between different IM systems, I know that this is not so easy. I have two IM networks, AIM and Yahoo, and I can't communicate across them. AOL has been doing battle with the forces of light that want complete compatibility.

Ken 32617 25 42_Re: on attachments and quoting of articles0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:17:54 EST620_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/16/02 3:30:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, Brianscoop@aol.com writes:

> And, btw, MSN Messenger works quite > well for IM, and people on AOL can use it too.



But Brian........MSN is from the Evil Empire up the road in Redmond.......

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 32643 22 15_Re: Perspective11_Lon Ephraim14_cbma@erols.com31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:51:32 -0800563_us-ascii



You didn't print the name of the author of the piece, but it may have been Phil Jacobs who, I believe, is now the publisher of the Baltimore Jewish Times. He was a chanich at Mosh in the 60's -70's.

Shelly

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 32666 31 29_chilling and empowering story12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 08:17:23 +0200282_us-ascii Debbie, The name of the article was "The Value of Animal Sacrifices" (sic - very sic.) It was for Shabbat Parashat Vayikra - March 16, 2002. I love your tenacity in tracking an idea to its nest. Can I enroll you as a gashashit (tracker fem.) for the idea of peace? :) [...] 32698 146 10_Shavua Tov12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:01:57 +0200466_windows-1255 This week, The New York Times published an illustrated graph, comparing Jewish deaths and Arab deaths in the current conflict. Many HonestReporting readers wrote to complain that the graph was misleading, making no distinction between civilians and armed combatants, and implying that all the Arab dead were somehow at the hands of Israelis -- when in fact scores of Arab dead were suicide bombers or suspected collaborators killed by other Arabs. [...] 32845 64 65_Guardian Unlimited Special reports Israel history 1 temp location14_Evelyn Sheskin23_esheskin@mishkei.org.il31_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:22:07 +020086_windows-1255



http://www.guardian.co.uk/wto/flash/0,6189,380127,00.html 32910 137 29_chilling and empowering story12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:08:19 +0200542_iso-8859-1 Haverot/im My mother was a perfectionist. She used to say “never let me hear you apologizing --- I made you perfect!” She also had a sense of humor about her own perfectionism. One of the lessons I learned from her is that anything worth doing is worth doing badly. When you think of it, that probably includes the Zionist record. And when you think of how I've mangled my own postings -- no, better don't think of it. Anyhow for those whom I perplexed - here is a guide. I wrote: >I goofed but even that has a silver lining. [...] 33048 31 42_Re: on attachments and quoting of articles11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:54:31 -0500665_us-ascii



DebALev@aol.com wrote:

> ... Not to mention that so many of my cousins are on it as well.......which > makes instant messaging so easy. > > Debbie

I recently signed up for a free instant messaging account at netscape.com which allows me to communicate with AOL folks just fine.

FYI

Noam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 33080 53 33_Re: chilling and empowering story0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:18:49 EST374_US-ASCII Amnon, I am deeply sorry for your loss. As a father of sons and daughters, I live in dread and fear that one of them may die before I am gone. The cause of that death gives focus to our anger, and any cause brings the same result - the loss of a life most precious to us and sacred to humankind, a potential for wonder, glory and insight. We are all lessened. [...] 33134 110 34_Chilling out with a powerful story12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:37:20 +0200379_windows-1255 I agree with Shloime that the ideological acceptance of "transfer" is very worrisome. Yet there it is: There are people advocating the one-way transfer of Jews from their homes in the central land of Israel. Incredible. And their crime is that they are being shot at, bombed, mortared and rocketed. So, the logic goes, they must be the guilty ones. Incredible. [...] 33245 66 34_last minute proposal (before i go)0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:07:50 EST449_US-ASCII Not gone yet... still time to toss yet another idea into the ring :)

I heard a remarkable talk the other day, Bill Moyers interviewing David Grossman, the Israeli author (Yellow Wind, and his newest, Be My Knife). Grossman was excellent (but seemed sad). I found some of his comments particularly intriguing and relevant, especially something he said about Sharon and Arafat needing to free themselves of their own biographies. [...] 33312 147 38_Re: last minute proposal (before i go)29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 12:13:06 -0500392_iso-8859-1 i'm so glad to finally see this articulated. of course we can't get anywhere if we insist on figuring out how/why we got here before we move on!

-esther cohen washington, dc moshava 1970-75, etc., etc.

----- Original Message ----- From: Brianscoop@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 12:07 PM Subject: last minute proposal (before i go) [...] 33460 109 29_Suicide Bombing Is Contagious0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 13:43:32 EST452_US-ASCII Chevre, Shalom

The key to ending the violence and achieving a settlement is convincing the Palestinians that they are gaining nothing by continuing their war. Maintaining or even increasing the strong American popular support for Israel is key to maintaining America's balance in seeking a solution and depriving the Palestinian leadership of any sense that their stubborn refusal to end the crisis via negotiations is paying off. [...] 33570 47 38_Re: last minute proposal (before i go)0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sun, 17 Mar 2002 15:29:36 EST560_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/17/02 12:08:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Brianscoop@aol.com writes:



> I am suggesting, I suppose, that we agree to a moratorium on comments > seeking right and wrong in the mire of history; instead, perhaps we can > look forward, talk to the question of reconciliation: What can we do, > wherever each of us is, that can perhaps add a brick to the foundation of > peace and reconciliation? What are our personal visions for a way to the > End of the Conflict? What can we do to advance toward an end to this > [...] 33618 20 35_Re: A chilling and empowering story0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 01:44:59 EST533_US-ASCII Brad Artson is a very progressive, very "think-out-of-the-box" Conservative rabbi - it would give him hives to think that anyone even made the mistake to think him a neo-Orthodox rabbi.

Aliya

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 33639 167 12_Chilling Out12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:44:15 +0200541_iso-8859-1 Doug I take the strongest exception to your posting to Habonet 2180. You probably noticed that I tend to archaic turns of phrase. Some of that can be attributed to my year of birth. The upshot is that as some new English has become the coin of the realm it has passed me by. For instance I had to check the expression chilling out. Here is what I found in two two sources. 1) The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms: "Chill out Calm down or relax, as in Don't let it bother you - just chill out" 2) Bloomsbury Thesaurus: [...] 33807 77 34_French Intellectuals in Afganistan0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:35:53 EST471_ISO-8859-1

Subject: French Intellectuals to be Deployed in Afghanistan Finally, a real solution.Subject: French Intellectuals to be Deployed in Afghanistan...To Convince the Taliban of the Non-Existence of God

The ground war in Afghanistan heated up yesterday when the Allies revealed plans to airdrop a platoon of crack French existentialist philosophers into the country to destroy the morale of Taliban zealots by proving the non-existence of God. [...] 33885 201 14_Passover Rules16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:05:59 -0500624_us-ascii In the spirit of the upcoming Yom Tov, I thought I would recycle the following Halachik issues regarding Pesach:

From Rabbi Yisroel Grundfliegel SHLIT"AH, Self-Described Halachik Authority and Successful Lower East Side Real Estate Developer

Here are the halachik issues for Peisach 5761:

1. Braces

Those people who normally wear braces while consuming chometzdike food, must have their braces kashered for Peisach. The preferred method is that of Libun, which can be accomplished by crinkling your lips up to expose your teeth and then running a blow torch along the entire length [...] 34087 44 10_peace cafe0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:35:15 EST441_US-ASCII i met a jewish woman last night who is an artist. she and an arab-america artist and restauranteur are having an exhibition of artwork entitled foods of peace, featuring artwork of foods historically shared by jews and arabs.

there will be a reception and peace cafe (featuring the foods as well as a "menu of topics for conversation") at mimi's american bistro, 2120 P st, nw washington, dc on march 26 from 5-7:30 pm. [...] 34132 42 14_Re: peace cafe14_Hadar Susskind19_hadar34@hotmail.com25_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:17:17642_- I'm planning on going. I've heard good things about the peace cafe and I'm always on the lookout for good falafel.

Hadar



>From: Marshlf@aol.com >Reply-To: habonet@shamash.org >To: habonet@shamash.org >Subject: peace cafe >Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:35:15 EST > >i met a jewish woman last night who is an artist. she and an arab-america >artist and restauranteur are having an exhibition of artwork entitled foods >of peace, featuring artwork of foods historically shared by jews and arabs. > >there will be a reception and peace cafe (featuring the foods as well as a >"menu of topics for conversation") at mimi's [...] 34175 30 14_Re: peace cafe0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:13:04 EST61_US-ASCII love to go as well, but weeknights are tough

34206 65 31_Zionist Congress-Please Explain0_18_Green88888@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:23:37 EST340_US-ASCII Just sent in my ballot for the World Zionist Congress-Voted for Slate 9 of course! Perhaps Caver Steve or somebody else can explain a few things to me:

1. How does a group qualify to get on the ballot-i.e the American Zionists for Unity and the Baltimore Zionist District-aren't there other cities with Zionist groups? [...] 34272 204 21_a tragedy-one of many13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:07:36 +0200514_windows-1255 We found out this morning that Tal Zemach was killed by terrorist action in the Jordan Valley. He didn't serve in the territories nor in Gaza but in Israel proper. Althopugh we grieve for every soldier that is lost in battle, knowing him and his entire family just brings the war a lot closer. For you who believe that an agreement with Arafat will end hostilities, think again. It would seem that we have a choice, either the Palestinians or us. The following appeared in Ha'aretz this morning. [...] 34477 28 71_Invite to the HIAS listserve, Immigration, Refugees, and Asylum Seekers14_Hadar Susskind19_hadar34@hotmail.com25_Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:32:42538_- I hope no one minds the cross post but I thought some of you might be interested in this. The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society (HIAS) is the refugee resettlemnt agency of the Jewish Community. Since 1881 HIAS has helped Jews and non-Jews flee persecution and start new lives in America. If you would like to recieve weekly email reports on issues relating to immigration, refugees, asylum, and other HIAS concerns, you can go to www.topica.com/lists/HIASupdate or, you can send a blank email to HIASupdate-subscribe@topica.com Thanks, [...] 34506 58 14_Tal Zemach z"l13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 19 Mar 2002 21:18:38 +0200398_windows-1255 Noam You wrote the following: The Washington Post reported this occurred in the West Bank - if they are inaccurate I'd like to write them to get this corrected. The Ha'Aretz article seemed to say that this was near a settlement also ("in the Jordan Valley, near the settlement of Mehula"). Please help the (somewhat) geographically challenged - where is the settlement of Mehula? [...] 34565 33 19_From machaneh Galil11_Jamie Levin22_mazkir@habonimdror.org31_Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:30:24 -0500660_iso-8859-1 -----Original Message----- From: HiyaChaya@aol.com [mailto:HiyaChaya@aol.com] Sent: Tue, March 19, 2002 2:18 PM To: mazkir@habonim dror.org



My name is Chaya Rubin, and I am merkezet chinuch at Machaneh Galil this summer. In an attempt to make the peulah resource database more accesible to madrichim at machaneh, I am sending out a call for anyone who is upgrading their computers (or entertaining the idea) to donate it to machaneh for a tax deductible donation. This would give our madrichim the opportunity to write their peulot and upload them onto the database, as well as download peulot for ideas instead of only ruffling [...] 34599 102 43_And from Ireland.... The Sunday Independent11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:12:33 -0600513_us-ascii Sunday March 10th 2002 The Sunday Independent (Ireland)

Israel, the only democratic state in the Middle East, deserves our moral support, says Declan McCormack.

IT'S open season for Jew-bashing in the West at the moment. As the Middle East's only democracy is subjected to wave after wave of vicious terrorist attacks by Palestinian gunmen and suicide bombers, the pious West and the sanctimoniously 'liberal' Western media lay the blame firmly where it has always lain with the Jews. [...] 34702 345 35_RE: Zionist Congress-Please Explain12_Dave Edelman21_docdave@optonline.net31_Tue, 19 Mar 2002 20:53:35 -0500339_us-ascii Donna,

I'm glad that you voiced your concern in this forum. I too have a ballot but it is not yet filled in. You see, despite my better judgment, I assented to be the recipient of the Email from all of the parties. This Email was described as the parties' sole shot at explaining why I should vote for one or another. [...] 35048 22 35_Re: Zionist Congress-Please Explain0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 00:51:51 EST350_US-ASCII I asked it before and I'll ask it again - why is Labor unwilling to take a stand for pluralism and the rights of Conservative and Reform Jews in Israel? I was so disappointed last time around that Labor stepped away from this important issue and I was so sure it would rectify it this time. Yet no stand has been taken. Please explain. [...] 35071 20 14_Tal Zemach z"l12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:43:40 +0200507_us-ascii Noam, Moshe, Mekhola is in the Jordan Valley, south of Bet She'an on the main road (number 90) about 17 km. as the crow flies from Tirat Tzvi and Sdeh Eliyahu.

Amnon

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 35092 127 18_location of attack13_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:45:22 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)409_windows-1255 Noam: Further to your letter: You wrote: The Washington Post reported this occurred in the West Bank - if they are inaccurate I'd like to write them to get this corrected. The Ha'Aretz article seemed to say that this was near a settlement also ("in the Jordan Valley, near the settlement of Mehula"). Please help the (somewhat) geographically challenged - where is the settlement of Mehula? [...] 35220 224 11_A News Item13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:18:09 -0500 (EST)523_us-ascii



> Hello! > > A friend who works in the Montreal Jewish > community sent this to me. I am thinking about two > ideas in the Tanach which to me are related. The > first, something like, "Not by might, not by power, > but by my spirit," says God. The second: "Peace, > peace shall you pursue." The question is whether we > believe the West Bank and Gaza to be Jewish > territory > on which the Palestinians are guests, who can be > asked > to leave if they don't behave themselves. > > I thought [...] 35445 282 11_A News Item13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 11:21:30 -0500 (EST)509_us-ascii

> > Hello! > > A friend who works in the Montreal Jewish > community sent this to me. I am thinking about two > ideas in the Tanach which to me are related. The > first, something like, "Not by might, not by power, > but by my spirit," says God. The second: "Peace, > peace shall you pursue." The question is whether we > believe the West Bank and Gaza to be Jewish > territory > on which the Palestinians are guests, who can be > asked > to leave if they don't behave themselves. > > I [...] 35728 286 34_Re: More "love" from our "cousins"9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 13:22:57 -0500344_windows-1255 Re: the hate article from the Saudi paper.

A friend of mine whose a native and literate speaker of Arabic found the article in the original and after reading it confirmed the article was accurately translated.

According to a report in the Jerusalem Post this morning, the Saudis have a acknowledged the article. [...] 36015 178 16_reply to Shloime13_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:22:02 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)568_windows-1255 Shloime, Would you please tell me if there is any one thing about Israel that you like. All we are a bunch of rapists, murderers, etc.? Do we purposely attack women and children? >From what you have written previously and continue to do so, I question your motives. That you support the 'refuseniks' and prepared to send them money is your concern and you have every right to speak out, in Canada. That you think that he Israel Defense Forces are murderers is obvious tome by what you have written (see below). I just think that you should tone down [...] 36194 98 29_Saudi editor retracts article0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:09:13 EST646_US-ASCII Los Angeles Times | 20 March 2002

Saudi Editor Retracts Article That Defamed Jews

By MICHAEL SLACKMAN, Times Staff Writer

CAIRO -- A prominent Saudi Arabian editor Tuesday criticized and disavowed an article that appeared recently in his own newspaper, Al Riyadh, that repeated the century-old fiction that Jews use the blood of Christians and Muslims to make holiday foods. The article proved a possible embarrassment to the ruling establishment, which is just beginning to shake loose from the barrage of criticism it received after the Sept. 11 attacks, when it became clear that 15 of the 19 hijackers were [...] 36293 62 31_peace, peace you shall pursue??7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:36:44 +0200642_windows-1255 Shloime, I think you may be misquoting. Tzedek, Tzedek tirdof -- "Diligently pursue justice," rather than what you wrote (peace, peace pursue).

An interesting anecdote: Professor Yishiahu Leibovitz once was speaking to my niece, a lawyer for the State Attorney's Office. He asked her "why is it that in the Tanach it is written "tzedek, tzedek tirdof, and not "tzedek, tzedek taseeg?" (why is it written "diligently pursue justice" and not "you shall achieve justice?") My answer for what it is worth: because justice is not automatic, not achieved without question, but rather has to be fought for, actively pursued [...] 36356 975 61_=?iso-8859-1?B?5PLh+OQ6IEZ3OiAoRk0pIEpld2lzaCBPbHltcGljcw==?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:28:38 +0200469_iso-8859-1 HI ALL,

WE WANT TO WISH YOU ALL A HAPPY AND KOSHER PASACH!!

MOLLIE AND ERIC ----- Original Message ----- From: PAUL LAZARUS To: ericmoli Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:15 PM Subject: Fw: Fw: (FM) Jewish Olympics





----- Original Message ----- From: Murray Golding To: Dowaine Griffiths Cc: Davidk@Twinsww. Com (E-mail) ; Paul Lazarus (E-mail) Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 9:47 AM Subject: FW: Fw: (FM) Jewish Olympics [...] 37332 25 90_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=E4=F2=E1=F8=E4:=20Fw:=20(FM)=20Jewish=20Ol?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?ympics?=0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:39:24 EST330_US-ASCII Again, ericmoli@netvision.net.il sent a note to Habonet that came as an attachment.

Didn't we just talk about this?

I do not open attachments, so I have no idea what this email was about. Maybe a joke that was forwarded? Whatever it is, it's not worth it to me to open an attachment and risk problems. [...] 37358 36 20_Re: reply to Shloime0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:41:10 EST242_US-ASCII I hope you do not take the criticism to heart and continue posting. I found the article you sent very interesting.

I also find interesting the insinuation that VOA is as anti-Israel as those Jew-baiters on CNN and BBC.

37395 32 6_Naaleh0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 22:08:19 EST529_US-ASCII Someone please forward this to Habonet.



>From: "Jay M Eidelman" >To: naalehcc@yahoogroups.com > >Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 08:32:42 -0500 > >Dear Members, > >Please check out Na'aleh's beautiful ad on page 78 of yesterday's NY Times >magazine. The ad was designed by The Rickard Group and will run two more >times over the next month. Special thanks to Na'aleh parent and Rickard >Group principal Wendy Rickard and art director Michelle Speckler for the >eye-catching ad. > >Jay [...] 37428 49 22_eric moli's attachment29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:32:56 -0500310_iso-8859-1 it came as an attachment to me, too, but also within the body of the document. i think that some email systems automatically attach forwarded messages - not that it can't be overridden. it's always worth looking all the way down the message box to see if it's there, and ignore the attachment. [...] 37478 18 19_To chevre in Israel0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Mar 2002 23:32:59 EST525_US-ASCII I will be in Israel from April 11-20 or 21based in Tel Aviv--I want to see everyone!!! Please email me privately so I can make arrangements...susie (freed)liberman :email: liberhawke@aol.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 37497 23 14_Re: Peace Cafe16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 05:17:46 +0000563_-



Sounds really cool! Hey Hadar what's up?



Marc (aka Fly)

_________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 37521 16 14_Re: peace cafe0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:47:39 EST373_US-ASCII cool, I'm in. Wanna drive in together?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 37538 129 17_Chronicle Illness0_19_simagr@telhai.ac.il31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 07:27:29 +0200375_- Shalom all,

There is some quote by Shalom Aleichem, which escapes me (that dwindling grey matter again) about Jewish humour always being laced with tradgedy - Well, those of us living in Israel, facing almost daily terrorist attacks, can certainly relate. The following is a piece written by Barry Silverberg of Kiriat Shmona - a bit of holiday cheer.... -Sima [...] 37668 20 14_Re: peace cafe0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 02:22:11 EST474_US-ASCII <> Oops -- that was meant for Lisa, but anyone else who wants a ride is welcome, too!

Rachel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 37689 52 53_Great Additional Passover Hotsites from Jacob Richman7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:58:23 +0200700_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Richman To: Informal Aliyah discussion group Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 8:06 AM Subject: OT: Happy Passover and Additional Passover Hotsites



> Hi Everyone! > > I added many additional sites to my Passover Hotsites this week. > The list is now over 160 sites. > The interesting additions include: Passover Art, > Passover celebrations during the USA civil war (both > sides), Passover audio songs including Reggae and many > sites in Hebrew, French, Russian, Spanish, German, > Italian, etc... > The address: > http://www.jr.co.il/hotsites/j-hdaypa.htm > > I also added many [...] 37742 59 26_Re: eric moli's attachment11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 09:22:20 -0500352_iso-8859-1 In netscape there is a setting "View attachment inline" which will display text or images without having to open them explicitly. It is running programs that come as attachments which will get you into trouble. I'm not aware of any viruses which can attach from jpeg image files.

Noam

Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen wrote: [...] 37802 113 14_Ny Times Op-ed14_Hadar Susskind19_hadar34@hotmail.com25_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:27:01407_- I'm sure many of you already saw this in the Times, but I thought it worth reposting. My feeling is that regardless of your opinions on whether or not Israel should withdraw from the Territories (or from territory) it is important to understand the distinctions between occupation and settlement policy. I don't necessarily agree with everything Mr. Fletcher has to say, but I think it is well said. [...] 37916 366 20_Re: reply to Shloime9_R. Shultz18_lzac@securenet.net31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 10:49:57 -0500349_windows-1255 Hello Moshe,

One can understand your disagreement with Shloime. We are living through a time of danger, confusion and turmoil. The uncertainty about the present and the future is corrosive. In addition we know it can get worse.

Everybody is looking for an answer. Shloime's answer (and mine) is different than yours. [...] 38283 39 35_Re: Zionist Congress-Please Explain11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:44:00 -0500391_iso-8859-1



Dave Edelman wrote:

> Donna, > > I’m glad that you voiced your concern in this forum. I too have a ballot but > it is not yet filled in. You see, despite my better judgment, I assented to be > the recipient of the Email from all of the parties. This Email was described > as the parties’ sole shot at explaining why I should vote for one or another. > [...] 38323 213 39_Books about HDNA on www.habonimdror.org11_Jamie Levin22_mazkir@habonimdror.org31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:43:45 -0500404_iso-8859-1 The first two books written about Habonim Dror North America can now be found online at www.habonimdror.org (click on publications). The following two books are excellent resources for peulot or just make a great read. Check them out.

Arise and Build. The Story of American Habonim was published in 1961. The last 30% of Arise and Build is still in the process of being digitized. [...] 38537 29 14_Give a listen!11_Lon Ephraim14_cbma@erols.com31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:05:24 -0800406_us-ascii This Tuesday was the first installment of NPR's old Yiddish radio shows. The first one was an overview of how the project started and what will be aired in the future. It really took me back in time. Yiddish was not passed on to us for fear that we might seem too "greenhorn", but it was all around us. As kids we used to mock it - now that I don't hear it anymore, it sounds like a lullaby. [...] 38567 29 35_Re: Zionist Congress-Please Explain0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:25:44 EST396_ISO-8859-1 Dave, Noam and others interested in this subject:

I am now going to give a personal, non-ideological view of the Zionist elections and why I agreed to be on the Labor Zionist list.

I pay dues to a Conservative synagogue and have reasons to vote the Mercaz slate. My brother is on the Arza slate (along with other friends). I am more politically in sync with Meretz. [...] 38597 33 41_Jerusalem Post Mail Article From A Friend11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org37_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 04:38:33 +0200 (IST)556_- Hello,

Your friend Roz Barland (rbarland@mjds.org) sent you the following article:





Israel's democracy under fire Naomi Chazan

(March 22) - Pessah, the holiday of freedom, has been championed throughout the ages as the celebration of human dignity and national self-determination. The retelling of the story of the exodus from Egypt is an annual reminder of the centrality of individual and collective liberation from slavery and oppression. It lies at the heart of the Jewish tradition and the democratic ethos. [...] 38631 19 20_Re: Zionist Congress9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Thu, 21 Mar 2002 21:44:43 -0800480_us-ascii Even though I voted for Labor out of a sense of loyalty I thought Meretz presented a much more coherent and compelling platform.

Norm Kane

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 38651 1563 25_=?iso-8859-8?B?5+Ig+e7n?=14_Evelyn Sheskin23_esheskin@mishkei.org.il57_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:11:27 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time) 40215 34 20_Re: Zionist Congress4_Meir21_meir_h@maccabi.org.il31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:18:54 +0200303_iso-8859-1 I moved to Meretz a long time ago (even before the initial party "Moked" first formed). I think that my loyalty is to the ideas and not to any party. I became discouraged with the Labor Party when I realized that they are NOT interested in equal citizenship rights for all the citizens. [...] 40250 50 35_Re: Zionist Congress-Please Explain14_Ethan Schwartz24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 08:47:12 +0200568_iso-8859-1 Labor in it's fear of the extreme religious parties is unwilling to take the courageous step in supporting alternative streams of Judaism. To the credit of the Jewish Agency, conservative communities are supported by it ( the Jewish Agency). Many people feel a vote for Labor is a vote to continued funding of the youth movement. In my day we would laugh at our friends in Masada and Young Judea who would have to except the opinions of their adult lords in Hadassah and ZOA. We felt we could afford to anger one of our sponsors and continue on, maybe [...] 40301 256 43_Fw: Books about HDNA on www.habonimdror.org14_Ethan Schwartz24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:06:54 +0200514_iso-8859-1 Wow this is truly great. Not to be fussy, But would it be possible to provide a downloadable format?



Ethan ----- Original Message ----- From: Jamie Levin To: Hdnacampingassn ; habonet ; Hdna@Yahoogroups. Com ; Mazkir Sweden ; Mazkir France ; Mazkir France ; Mazkir France ; HD OZ ; HD NZ ; HD Germany ; HD Germany ; HD UK ; HD UK ; HD SA ; HD Mexico ; HD Mexico ; HD Uruguay ; HD Uruguay ; HD Argentina ; HD Argentina ; HD Argentina ; HD Brazil ; HD Brazil ; HD Holland ; HD Holland [...] 40558 72 41_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=E7=E2=20=F9=EE=E7?=0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:11:08 EST314_ISO-8859-1



In the past month or so, since Evelyn Cheskin joined Habonet, I have never gotten one email from her that is legible. The email below is an example of how her mail appears when it gets to me. Can someone explain this, or let Evelyn know how to format her email so it can be read??? [...] 40631 40 20_Re: reply to Shloime12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:03:28 +0200566_us-ascii Shalom R. Shultz, whoever you are. Thanks for your measured and cogent response to Moshe. To paraphrase a bon mot, the last refuge of "patriots" is the geographic imperative. Something like you must share a piece of territory with me before you criticize anything and everything I do to hang on to some territory. Moshe, I don't think I know you and I do know Shloime. I wish to avoid playing the percentage game - how many Israelis for and how many against getting out of the territories this week. I know that there are less Israelis alive this week [...] 40672 26 45_Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=E7=E2=20=F9=EE=E7?=12_David Fleiss20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 09:17:23 -0500542_- Depending on which program I use to read the e-mail, it either appears as Hebrew or gibberish.

I'd prefer to give a chaver/chavera the benefit of the doubt and assume that the message is in Hebrew.

David

SC523@aol.com wrote:

In the past month or so, since Evelyn Cheskin joined Habonet, I have never gotten one email from her that is legible. The email below is an example of how her mail appears when it gets to me. Can someone explain this, or let Evelyn know how to format her email so it can be read??? [...] 40699 54 32_Urgent Halachic Issue for Pesach16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 10:38:45 -0500426_us-ascii Rabbosai,

It has fallen upon my shoulders to adress this very serious halachic matter before yontif. Upon looking at the contents of my computer, I realized that the average computer allows "cookies" for usage on the internet. Forgoing other halachic issues about the tarfus problem of the 'net, it is very important to assess this problem, as it is a problem of chometz mamash in the reshus of a person. [...] 40754 19 36_Re: Urgent Halachic Issue for Pesach0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:27:26 EST593_US-ASCII Although some may think that laughing at ourselves involves a form of "self-hatred"- I find it to be a value of strength- and I thank Eli for "inflicting" us with a little humor during this time of intense seriousness...Todah Rabah and Chag Sameach- sue(sie)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 40774 39 23_Re: HABONET digest 216911_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:36:51 -0500364_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:

> Hi Jon!- > ... The Palestinian mindset is based on desperation, hate, and a funny kind of > Anti-Semitism that is obvious in its desire to get rid of us all. Need I > bring ou examples again- their education, their exploitation of young kids > for hate and terror training, their blatant lack of any sign of peace. [...] 40814 55 54_=?iso-8859-1?Q?Don=92t_Curse_the_Dark_-Light_a_Match?=12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:57:17 +0200591_us-ascii

Haverot/im

As you may remember, Noa and Barr two of our granddaughters are in the Hand-in-Hand (Yad b'Yad), Arab/Jewish elementary school here in Jerusalem. And with everything that is going on in this part of the world it is nice to have a ray of hope that continues to shine. Registration for next year has already begun and even with "the situation" there are parents who are looking to our young school for direction. There are just under 90 children this year, with next year bringing in another 30 children and plans for opening 2 new classes for the fall [...] 40870 35 35_Re: Zionist Congress-Please Explain0_18_Green88888@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:10:50 EST531_US-ASCII I still want to know how a group gets on the ballot. Also, I received a postcard from Emunah women, an orhtodox women's organization. They were pleased to announce that they had acheived independent status and would have delegates at the Congress (how many were not mentioned). They urged me to vote anyway for the religious Zionist Slate. Also, I understand that Hadassah has independent status. Yet, some of its prominent members are on the General Zionist slate (slate one, I think). Is this fair? Shabbat Shalom, Donna 40906 19 29_Re: =?iso-8859-8?B?5+Ig+e7n?=0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:29:50 EST512_ISO-8859-1 Again.....sometyhing that came only as an attachment. What is the problem here?

It is frustrating to have no idea what you are sending and to have to delete it.



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 40926 26 23_Re: HABONET digest 21690_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:30:33 EST405_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/23/02 3:37:39 AM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:

<< But we also see that there are Palestinians who still strive for co-existance, even in the face of personal loss and deprivation. >>

I wrote that a long time ago- but still beleive it- I know there are Palestinians who want peaceful co-existence....but it is too bad they seem to have no power....s [...] 40953 18 41_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:_=E7=E2_=F9=EE=E7?=0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 18:34:52 EST558_ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Aliya. Me too. I find myself wondering (crabbily) what part of "NO ATTACHMENTS" do people not understand? That's not even counting emails like this one where I can't even figure out the subject line.

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 40972 48 19_If anyone cares....0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:54:59 EST535_US-ASCII I am upset by Noam's seeming "attack"- It is almost Shabbat- and instead of focusing on "the light"- I am angry and my stomach is churning. So I want to clarify some things about my opinions and then I won't get into this discussion again: 1. I think Israel should pull out of the territories and separate itself from the Palestinians as much as it can until there is some kind of normalcy- if that is possible.-But I realize the fact that my opinion has really no power since I am not living there and I can not vote in [...] 41021 51 60_A Seder Supplement for 2002 - Pharoah and the Slaves 9/11/010_29_benjamin_laden@peoplesoft.com31_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 21:41:44 -0500405_iso-8859-1 Hi there, Here is a supplement you can add to the seder this year Have a nice pesach. Ben ----------------------------------------- Pharoah and the Slaves ? 9/11/01

Before that day, we were free After that day, less free A piece of our slavery returned Shackled once again Though not completely bound Somewhat enslaved Partially chained Changed Each of us, in our own way Less Free [...] 41073 48 35_Re: Zionist Congress-Please Explain0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:25:50 EST600_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/22/02 6:11:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, Green88888@aol.com writes:



> Also, I understand that Hadassah has independent status. Yet, some of its > prominent members are on the General Zionist slate (slate one, I think). Is > this fair? Shabbat Shalom, Donna

Although others who are more involved can supply details, you are correct that Hadassah has negotiated a deal where they don't stand for election. To add insult to injury, their past presidents then go to their fraternal partner's list and run. It gives the whole enterprise a bad name. [...] 41122 19 23_Re: HABONET digest 21850_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 10:46:03 EST469_US-ASCII Is there someone out there who can lend me her/his decoder ring so that I can read Habonet Digest 2185??????

Chag sameach Shula

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 41142 266 103_=?windows-1255?B?5PLh+OQ6IOTy4fjkOiBXT1JTVCBWSVJVUyBFVkVSLi4uQ05OIEFOTg==?= =?windows-1255?B?T1VOQ0VE?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:02:58 +0200503_windows-1255

----- Original Message ----- From: Paula & Geoff Felberg To: Joe & Annette Nissel ; Abe & Barbara Brot ; Hazel Rose ; Eric & Mollie Marx ; Loren & Barbara Brown ; Michal Weissman Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:27 PM Subject: Fw: äòáøä: WORST VIRUS EVER...CNN ANNOUNCED





----- Original Message ----- From: David Felberg To: Mom & Dad (E-mail) ; Navah (E-mail) Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 10:25 AM Subject: FW: äòáøä: WORST VIRUS EVER...CNN ANNOUNCED [...] 41409 57 111_=?windows-1255?B?UmU6IOTy4fjkOiDk8uH45DogV09SU1QgVklSVVMgRVZFUi4uLkNOTg==?= =?windows-1255?B?IEFOTk9VTkNFRA==?=13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:25:42 +0200284_windows-1255 Sorry, Eric and Mollie, this is a hoax. Not just a hoax, but an old hoax. Check out: http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_98893.htm and you'll see that it was first sent out, with the same text in November, 2000.

But, as always, it's good to stay vigilant. Jon

41467 88 111_=?windows-1255?B?4fLw6envOiDk8uH45Dog5PLh+OQ6IFdPUlNUIFZJUlVTIEVWRVIuLi5D?= =?windows-1255?B?Tk4gQU5OT1VOQ0VE?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:34:44 +0200422_windows-1255

----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 6:25 PM Subject: Re: äòáøä: äòáøä: WORST VIRUS EVER...CNN ANNOUNCED



Sorry, Eric and Mollie, this is a hoax. Not just a hoax, but an old hoax. Check out: http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_98893.htm and you'll see that it was first sent out, with the same text in November, 2000. [...] 41556 114 111_=?windows-1255?B?4fLw6envOiDk8uH45Dog5PLh+OQ6IFdPUlNUIFZJUlVTIEVWRVIuLi5D?= =?windows-1255?B?Tk4gQU5OT1VOQ0VE?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 18:39:26 +0200437_windows-1255

Dear Jon,

Thank you so much for your reply. I see that it's worthwhile to forward mail to Habonet, sometimes. Now, I'm going to forward your letter to famil & friends.

Happy Pasach, Mollie Marx







----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 6:25 PM Subject: Re: äòáøä: äòáøä: WORST VIRUS EVER...CNN ANNOUNCED [...] 41671 138 16_good bye for now12_Ilana Berner20_ilanabr@bezeqint.net31_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:12:27 +0200496_Windows-1252 To: Everyone in/on Habonet

From: Ilana Berner, Los Angeles Habonim, 8th Workshop, etc.

Dear Chaverim and Chaverot,

I have decided to unsubscribe to Habonet at the present time simply because I am too busy to handle the flow of e.mail messages that arrive via Habonet.

I would like to encourage any of you who live in Israel or those of you planning to visit Israel in the near future to check out the web site of our Bed & Breakfast as listed below. [...] 41810 94 11_unsubscribe12_Ilana Berner20_ilanabr@bezeqint.net31_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:13:47 +0200230_Windows-1252 please unsubscribe me. thank you ilana berner caesarea, israel



"A Room With A (Pool) View" B&B Ilana & Tzvia Hostesses Caesarea, Israel 050-624710 04 6363936 http://www.caesarea-b-and-b.150m.com

41905 20 23_Re: HABONET digest 21690_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 20:18:20 EST299_US-ASCII It would help if the media presented us with some examples of Palestinians of any age or gender who are willing to expressed a balanced view that accepts any degree of responsibility - for anything, or has a single nice word to say about Jews on the west side of the Greenline. Dennis [...] 41926 44 81_Re: HABONET digest 2169 and nice words about Jews on either side of the greenline11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:13:59 -0500342_us-ascii DLerner569@aol.com wrote:

> It would help if the media presented us with some examples of Palestinians of > any age or gender who are willing to expressed a balanced view that accepts > any degree of responsibility - for anything, or has a single nice word to say > about Jews on the west side of the Greenline. > Dennis [...] 41971 107 37_palestinian pretence &israeli reality13_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 05:23:53 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)232_windows-1255 The following article by Victor Davis Hanson, author appeared in the National Review. I recommend it to everyone who wants a true analysis of the situation.

http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson031802.shtml 42079 74 36_Tal Tzemach z"l and his mother Malka0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Mar 2002 22:25:20 EST502_US-ASCII Folks:

Tal Tzemach was killed last week in the terrorist ambush in the northern Jordan Valley. Tal, a ben meshek from Hulda, was a classmates of kids I know from Gezer, so I have a personal attachment to this tragedy that I don't have to many others. In reading about the funeral, I learned about the family as well, and his mother's outspoken to what she has called a senseless tragedy. I have copied below the first two paragraphs from an article and a link to the full article. [...] 42154 145 44_Feedback on the Zionist election and Habonim0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 00:51:41 EST399_US-ASCII Chaver Ethan, Shalom

I'm so sorry that we're now in the heat of the actual Zionist election with less than optimal staffing (both paid and volunteer) to get the job done before April 5. The issues raised here on Habonet are altogether valid concerning the election and the merits of the various slates. I wish I had more time to respond to all of the questions here on Habonet. [...] 42300 17 80_Re: =?windows-1255?B?5PLh+OQ6IOTy4fjkOiBXT1JTVCBWSVJVUyBFVkVSLi4uQ05OIEFOTg==...0_16_Aborciah@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:24:09 EST376_US-ASCII This is a hoax. Check "vmyths.com." Anita

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 42318 17 80_Re: =?windows-1255?B?UmU6IOTy4fjkOiDk8uH45DogV09SU1QgVklSVVMgRVZFUi4uLkNOTg==...0_16_Aborciah@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:25:01 EST413_US-ASCII Sorry...I hadn't read far enough to see that others already caught this. Anita

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 42336 106 38_children's playground for Arab village7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:45:42 +0200562_windows-1255 Shalom,

Friday morning I met with two Beduin from Beth Zarzir, a village which has lost 133 soldiers in the army. That is a huge amount for a village. A few weeks ago their cousin and nephew was killed by terrorists on the Ma'aleh Adumim road. I believe that their village is a fitting village for the playground in memory of their soldiers killed defending Israel. They told me they very much need such a park. Ka'is told me that he thinks it would cost $150,000 for such a park, since it must be big with much playground equipment and [...] 42443 95 10_Re: çâ ùîç18_jnhonor@rcknet.com18_jnhonor@rcknet.com31_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:04:17 -0500423_iso-8859-1

Aliya and all--

I was having the same problem with Evelyn's emails, but when it came up attached to yours, it was suddenly in legible Hebrew! This after coming up in hieroglyphics the first time I saw it.

What's up here?

Naomi Goldberg Honor Original Message: ----------------- From: SC523@aol.com Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:11:08 EST To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Re: çâ ùîç [...] 42539 53 23_Re: HABONET digest 218615_Arline Nitzberg21_arlinen@altavista.com26_24 Mar 2002 07:46:57 -08001028_- Please send Habonet digest to my new email address"arlinen@worldshare.net" thank you.n Sat, 23 March 2002, "Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh" wrote:

> > > HABONET Digest 2186 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: HABONET digest 2185 > by Shulansid@aol.com > 2) =?windows-1255?B?5PLh+OQ6IOTy4fjkOiBXT1JTVCBWSVJVUyBFVkVSLi4uQ05OIEFOTg==?= > =?windows-1255?B?T1VOQ0VE?= > by ericmoli > 3) =?windows-1255?B?UmU6IOTy4fjkOiDk8uH45DogV09SU1QgVklSVVMgRVZFUi4uLkNOTg==?= > =?windows-1255?B?IEFOTk9VTkNFRA==?= > by "Jonathan Baum" > 4) =?windows-1255?B?4fLw6envOiDk8uH45Dog5PLh+OQ6IFdPUlNUIFZJUlVTIEVWRVIuLi5D?= > =?windows-1255?B?Tk4gQU5OT1VOQ0VE?= > by ericmoli > 5) =?windows-1255?B?4fLw6envOiDk8uH45Dog5PLh+OQ6IFdPUlNUIFZJUlVTIEVWRVIuLi5D?= > =?windows-1255?B?Tk4gQU5OT1VOQ0VE?= > by ericmoli > 6) good bye for now > by "Ilana Berner" > 7) unsubscribe > by "Ilana Berner" [...] 42593 48 23_Re: If anyone cares....11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:00:37 -0500307_us-ascii Sue,

I was objecting to an idea you expressed. If we can't do that here, I'm at a loss as to for what you think this list is for. You on the other hand have accused me of attacking you and imply that anyone who has an opinion here (or is it just one with which you disagree?) is snide. [...] 42642 182 12_Hey Noam....0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 11:53:55 EST404_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/24/02 11:05:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, stopak@orionsci.com writes:

> > I was objecting to an idea you expressed. If we can't do that > here, I'm at a loss as to for what you think this list is for. You > on the other hand have accused me of attacking you and imply > that anyone who has an opinion here (or is it just one with which > you disagree?) is snide. [...] 42825 204 53_"A widower offers forgiveness in a land of vengeance"0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:15:20 -0500667_iso-8859-1 Hi all!

This is the story to which Noam referred. I believe that the real chalutziut today is to work for peace.

Shavuah Tov,

Shloime





>Headline: A widower offers forgiveness in a land of vengeance

>Byline: Cameron W. Barr Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor >Date: 03/13/2002

>(AIDA REFUGEE CAMP, WEST BANK)Israeli soldiers blew open the Hawajas' metal front door, spraying the interior with its jagged fragments. > >Huda Hawaja had chosen the very same moment to step across the hallway >that leads away from the front of the house. Shrapnel gouged her right >arm and left thigh. > [...] 43030 291 16_Re: Hey Noam....7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:20:20 +0200319_iso-8859-1 tikun: 1. "the Israelis who wish for peace": I would say that is 100% of this country. There are no Israelis who do not want peace, but your wording makes it seem as if there are. It is the method of getting to that peace where we differ, not the actual desire for peace being absent in certain people. [...] 43322 167 46_from Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Jews under Siege7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:38:58 +0200310_iso-8859-1 Nothing earth-shaking here: just nice to see that there are people who understand us and can empathize. It is very depressing to feel that everyone is against you and that there are those among our own People who feel more for the enemy than they do for those who suffer at their hands. pearl. [...] 43490 148 42_Re: children's playground for Arab village14_Ethan Schwartz24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:56:30 +0200438_windows-1255 Pearl

I think that is an excellent idea. I will be very happy to help if it is done in a time I can escape from work. It will only be worth while doing if adequate funds are written in to the plan to properly maintain the playground. Here in Eilat I see beautiful playgrounds and public areas that are ugly and dangerous after a short time because of lack of funds to maintain these wonderful expensive projects. [...] 43639 24 30_Reservist signing up for extra13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 07:43:03 -0500295_us-ascii Dear Pearl,

COuld you please send me some kind of reference for the reservists who are signing up for extra duty? As part of a series on different view points on Israel, we recently had someone from Omertz Lasarev speak at our shul and we are trying to encourage a balance. [...] 43664 45 50_Re: from Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Jews under Siege11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:18:42 -0500453_us-ascii Indeed nothing earth-shaking. Another expression of support for the idea that the "other" is monsterous and anyone who sees enough warts to go around on all sides must feel more for the enemy.

Can't we move beyond the hysterics to seek reconciliation and harmony? Not saying it will be easy, but the tide of hate is rising and I choose to buck the tide rather than be swept way in it. No, I'm not advocating unilateral surrender. I [...] 43710 28 7_Hey Sam11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 08:22:13 -0500631_us-ascii

I don't deny Sue her angst. I object to racist or other generalizations which demonize entire groups. If that is beyond the pale here, then perhaps it is time to seek affiliation with a different group, as I read little here which reflects the group I once knew.

Sadly,

Noam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 43739 910 7_Subject12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:46:35 +0200683_windows-1255 Palestinian Pretence & Israeli Reality What the world knows, but can’t say, to be true.

By Victor Davis Hanson, author most recently of Carnage and Culture: Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power. March 18, 2002 8:10 a.m.





common theme throughout classical literature is the role of pretext (prophasis) contrasted with the actual cause of complaint (aitia) — the great divide between what aggrieved people say publicly and what they feel privately. Nations, the historian Thucydides reminds us, also adopt such strategic postures. Their spokesmen often voice complaints that are either groundless or — even if partly justified — [...] 44650 130 19_William Safire 3/2511_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:55:28 -0500560_iso-8859-1 To those who feel I support Israel's enemies rather than supporting Israel let me say that I agree with most of what Safire is saying below. Never thought I'd find myself saying so :-)

I disagree with his explanation for why there was dancing in the streets of Ramallah on September 11, and I think that whether they are 'disputed' or 'occupied' (and I agree with his characterization of 'disputed'), Israel would be better off without most of the territories, but I think in general he does a good job of placing things in perspective. [...] 44781 54 23_RE: William Safire 3/250_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:55:37 -0500453_iso-8859-1 I believe that William Safire has in effect come out in support of a far more all-out, aggressive attack on the West Bank and Gaza than occured in the last few weeks -- the kind of assault which apparently being contemplated (see today's Washington Post, front page story). I am exerpting three paragraphs, which I think, adds up to this conclusion, at least in my political arithmetic. Add to that Safire's support of war against Iraq. [...] 44836 21 79_Re: HABONET digest 2169 and nice words about Jews on either side of the gree...0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:11:56 EST625_US-ASCII Noam, You are right there are items in the mainstream media. I saw a piece the other day on Palestinian doctors, etc. working at Haddasah hospital. My point was these things appear as minor counterpoint to the colorful (bloody) murder mayhem and hopelessness of most media reporting. Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 44858 18 11_Re: Hey Sam0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:21:03 EST437_US-ASCII Noam as a recent joiner of this list serve (my only) I am interested to know what we once were? Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 44877 27 11_Re: Hey Sam0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:38:38 EST531_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/25/02 9:26:29 PM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:

<< I don't deny Sue her angst. I object to racist or other generalizations which demonize entire groups. >>

I don't need your permission to "allow" me to "suffer angst" or have any other kinds of feelings or opinions...And I would watch it since you doth protest too much about " racist or other generalizations...etc etc..."- You seem not to follow your own advice often when you denegrate whole populations of Israelis -....s [...] 44905 39 7_Hey Sue11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:59:08 -0500564_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/25/02 9:26:29 PM, stopak@orionsci.com writes: > > << I don't deny Sue her angst. I object to racist or other > generalizations > which demonize entire groups. >> > > I don't need your permission to "allow" me to "suffer angst" or have any > other kinds of feelings or opinions...And I would watch it since you doth > protest too much about " racist or other generalizations...etc etc..."- You > seem not to follow your own advice often when you denegrate whole populations > of Israelis -....s [...] 44945 30 10_Hey Dennis11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:05:28 -0500401_us-ascii DLerner569@aol.com wrote:

> Noam as a recent joiner of this list serve (my only) I am interested to know > what we once were? > Dennis

Not talking about the list.

I was talking about the movement.

>From what I read from the Mazkir, the movement is still pretty much where it was. Seems to me a large number of the alumni have shifted pretty far to the right. [...] 44976 89 27_Yitzhak Rabin's Last Speech0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:21:22 -0500565_iso-8859-1 Hello you all,

As Pesach approaches, I decided to send off Yitzhak Rabin's last speech, given on Nov. 4, 1995. Since Pesach has everything to do with our relationship to the "stranger," I thought this would be appropriate. When I think of this speech, I also think of something Ariel Sharon reportedly said recently, (the contrast could not have been greater) that he wishes he had killed Yassir Arafat in 1982-83. In other words, it would have been totally well and good to have destroyed him, just as many others were destroyed in 1982-83. [...] 45066 23 11_Re: Hey Sam0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:26:37 EST484_US-ASCII Unfortunately, and regrettably, I agree. Sam, I find your too infrequent postings to be highly doctrinaire. While I respect you, and listen closely to what you have to say, I cannot believe there is a single right answer to any question, let alone one with all the factors, history, and multinational dynamics of this all important problem. I would admire you even more if I perceived that you were listening to us, not just criticizing those whose view differs. Dennis [...] 45090 18 14_Re: Hey Dennis0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:27:44 EST354_US-ASCII Noam, I see. Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 45109 31 31_Re: Yitzhak Rabin's Last Speech0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:35:36 EST582_US-ASCII Hey all,

I want to include a recognition of the similarities and differences between our enslavement in Egypt and the Palestinian condition. I want to express solidarity with the yearnings of people, including Palestinians to be free to live as they choose. I am always aware of the incredible emotion and distress associated with picking up and moving lock stock and barrel from the place - good, bad, or indifferent - that my family has been in for 400 years and seek to return to a place I have only heard stories about, that has been occupied all that time [...] 45141 22 11_Re: Hey Sue0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:47:54 EST564_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/26/02 8:01:57 AM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:

<< For someone who complains about feeling attacked all the time, you sure are quick to shift to offense. >>

I AM A WOMAN!- I AM ALLOWED!..S

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 45164 37 11_Re: Hey Sue29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:56:50 -0500507_iso-8859-1 sssssssssssssssssssss

esther (the humanist - versus feminist)

ps - yes, i know it was a joke. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 7:47 PM Subject: Re: Hey Sue



> > In a message dated 3/26/02 8:01:57 AM, stopak@orionsci.com writes: > > << For someone who complains about feeling attacked all > the time, you sure are quick to shift to offense. >> > > I AM A WOMAN!- I AM ALLOWED!..S > > > [...] 45202 26 11_Re: Hey Sue11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:37:59 -0500357_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 3/26/02 8:01:57 AM, stopak@orionsci.com writes: > > << For someone who complains about feeling attacked all > the time, you sure are quick to shift to offense. >> > > I AM A WOMAN!- I AM ALLOWED!..S

I'm sure I wouldn't want to say, one way or another, what you're allowed to do :-) [...] 45229 28 11_Re: Hey Sue0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:43:36 EST80_US-ASCII I forgot to put the smiley face- glad you took it the right way!!!!. :) 45258 18 26_Judy and/or Ruthie Glasner0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:48:59 EST493_US-ASCII We still haven't been able to find either Judy or Ruthie Glasner- If anyone knows where either one of these sisters are, please email me privately- Thanks sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 45277 63 34_Re: Reservist signing up for extra7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:58:08 +0200587_iso-8859-1 shalom, Every day on the radio there are ads encouraging people to sign up for extra milium, and reservists speak about their giving extra service, encouraging others to do so also. The newspapers reported that ~ 5,000 signed up for the extra duty. Including women, who normally do not go to reserve duty. We see pictures in the newspapers and on TV that show reservists of all ages, including people who long ago stopped being called up for duty, who are now volunteering. The newspapers reported last week about reservists who volunteered to stay on a few more days of [...] 45341 23 34_Re: Reservist signing up for extra12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:53:36 +0200373_iso-8859-1 Not only are "active" reservists signing up, but "retired" soldiers like my husband are signing up to do two-week stints in reserve duty, to take the pressure off regular soldiers. They would be doing guard duty. A radio report about this last week said that 4,000 people expressed interest in the program. If you want the contact information, let me know. [...] 45365 138 25_Pharaoh, Moses and Stuart0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:47:12 EST511_UTF-8 (New message at end)

In a message dated 3/25/02 11:37:53 AM, ProgressiveZionistAlliance@xxx.com writes:

<< After our meeting yesterday, at which we decided to pay more attention to various outrages in the Jewish Exponent, I was reading Jonathan Tobin’s opinion page in this week's Exponent. In honor of Passover, he tried to connect the situation in Israel to the Passover story and reminded us that “in every generation†enemies rise up against us. I had the following thoughts. [...] 45504 31 34_Re: Reservist signing up for extra9_CarmiDave20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:30:26 +0200564_iso-8859-1 For those of us past the reverse duty stage, there is and always has been the civil guard in the urban areas and the matmid Border Police volunteers) in the rural areas. I, for one, have served in the matmid for seven years, patroling our rural area. For the past couple years, there has been much more emphasis on our area since we border the Gaza Strip and the border with Egypt. Much of the smuggling, both of illegal substances and people (women brought in from the former Soviet Union to work as prostitutes) from Egypt goes through our area. [...] 45536 58 68_Re: Feedback on the Zionist election and Habonim HABONET digest 21879_Mark Seal21_mogzeal@earthlink.net31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:51:30 -0500476_iso-8859-1 Chevre:

As a long-time lurker and non-poster, I have been retiscent to jump into the conversation about the WZO elections and Labor vs Meretz. But Chaver Steve's last post put me over the top. There are many valid reasons to support the Labor slate in the WZO elections. But to claim that the work of the Habonim-Dror Foundation is somehow connected to the LZA is pure fiction and demands a response as do a list of other poorly articulated assertions. [...] 45595 27 68_Re: Feedback on the Zionist election and Habonim HABONET digest 218713_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:04:52 -0500429_iso-8859-1 Here, Here! In our family we have all already voted Meretz, of course. ___ |Y| ^^^

>From: "Mark Seal" >Subject: Re: Feedback on the Zionist election and Habonim HABONET digest 2187 > Chevre: > As a long-time lurker and non-poster, I have been retiscent to jump into > the conversation about the WZO elections and Labor vs Meretz. But Chaver > Steve's last post put me over the top. [...] 45623 46 29_Re: Pharaoh, Moses and Stuart0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:04:45 EST605_US-ASCII STEVE!!!!!!!!!!!! I am appalled again--If one uses enough generaliztions, we will be admitting that American terrorists captured the 13 colonies from the Indians, and that Washington was a pharoah. :)..Why not call all of us Pharoahs and terrorists! .I am all for literary similies and equations, and to tell the truth, I remember that one of my first "oppositions" to the Hagadah was learning about the death of the firstborns, and wondering how our God could have done such a thing- to kill innocent children.....But let's call a spade a spade- Arafat is a lying coward who hides behind a [...] 45670 27 9_Israeline21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy16_tsippi@attbi.com31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:15:49 -0800471_us-ascii Dear Chevre,

Help! Due to recent involuntary email address change (thanks, At&T!) which loused me up for about three weeks, I have lost my connection to Israeline, and would appreciate it if someone could tell me how to resubscribe.

Mark Seal, welcome and congratulations on joining the "out" ranks. But when coming out of the woodwork, it is customary to present your credentials: what ken/ camp, years, Workshop/Machon, Israel, etc. So, nu? [...] 45698 38 6_Voting14_Martin Goodman26_martinjgoodman@hotmail.com31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:28:14 +0000438_- To All the HABONET Chevra, SHALOM U- VRACHA:

This is Marty Goodman. I have moved back to San Francisco and I have been lurking and listening to the Habonet discussion about voting in the Zionist election.

After some consideration I have decided to vote for the the Labor Zionist slate, even though the stated goals of the movement and the opinions of some of the individuals on Habonet are not identical with my own. [...] 45737 68 86_Re: Pharaoh, Moses, Steve and Sue (Whatever happened to Bob and Carol, Ted and Alice?)11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:06:39 -0500614_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:

> STEVE!!!!!!!!!!!! I am appalled again--If one uses enough generaliztions, we will be admitting that American > terrorists captured the 13 colonies from the Indians, and that Washington was a pharoah. :)..Why not call all of us > Pharoahs and terrorists! .I am all for literary similies and equations, and to tell the truth, I remember that one of > my first "oppositions" to the Hagadah was learning about the death of the firstborns, and wondering how our God could > have done such a thing- to kill innocent children.....But let's call a spade a spade- Arafat is [...] 45806 73 40_RE: Fwd: peace, peace you shall pursue??0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:16:41 -0500611_iso-8859-1 Shloime Perel wrote:

> Thanks very much for your comment on Yeshayahu Leibovitz, Pearl. (See below) I'd like to offer a short exerpt for Yeshayahu's writings, which I think is appropriate for our holiday of liberation, which focuses especially on the stranger.

This is part of an article which Leibovitz published in Yediot Ahronot in March 1968, and I discovered it by typing his name on Google and looking at the last site of the first set. Remember that this was written less than a year after the Six Day War, and in that sense I consider it prophetic. [...] 45880 29 61_Re: Pharaoh, Moses, Steve and Sue -A DRASH QUESTION FOR AMNON0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:42:22 EST625_US-ASCII

In a message dated 3/27/02 3:10:11 AM, stopak@orionsci.com writes:

<< To my way of thinking, to acknowledge their humanity and assert their right to live with dignity does not reduce our claim but rather reinforces it. >>

I agree with this wholeheartedly--Pesach is such an incredible holiday- that brings "to the table" so much--so I ask for a little "drash"-- The 10 plagues were heaped upon all of Egypt--Why?- Is it to teach us that tragedy or leadership without compassion and understanding makes everyone guilty, and there fore they must suffer? How often do we hear the phrase " an [...] 45910 104 36_Fwd: Zionist Congress-Please Explain0_18_Green88888@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 17:57:32 EST182_US-ASCII Although there has been talk re what slate to vote for, no one has answered my basic question-how does a slate get on the ballot? I am reforwarding my original e-mail! Donna 46015 40 23_a small change of focus0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:01:27 EST576_US-ASCII For a moment, let's look at a couple of other 'Jewish problems' of the day. I'm sure some of you have access to the Forward - a newer remake of the old Yiddish Daily Forward. The op-ed page (13) of March 22 speaks of ways to help strengthen the Jewish students on college campuses, a matter we could have much more real affect on than the Israeli crises. There are good suggestions for improving their abilities to counter a whole lot of anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist goings on among both students and faculty. We're here, there are undoubtedly a few Habonetters [...] 46056 18 11_Re: Subject0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 18:11:54 EST542_ISO-8859-1 Doug..........this came to me as an attachment, which I do not open. There was some text along the left side of the screen, but it was difficult to read and had lots of extraneous characters.

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 46075 179 12_(no subject)0_17_ANSAfrica@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:22:47 EST627_ISO-8859-1 Please join us and help spread the word:

DAY OF HOPE -- FIGHTING AIDS IN AFRICA

Rally and Lobby Day Wednesday, April 10 Washington, D.C.

12:30 p.m. - Rally on West side of Capitol (side facing Washington Monument)

2:00 - 5:00 p.m. - Congressional visits

Join religious leaders, global health experts, people with AIDS and Danny Glover for a spirited rally and lobby day to stop the global AIDS crisis. It's a critical moment, as Congress debates whether to provide more funding to global AIDS programs.· 8000 people with no access to medicine die from AIDS each day worldwide [...] 46255 814 7_Subject12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 26 Mar 2002 21:56:23 +0200480_windows-1255 "From the moment the first drop of his blood is spilled, he (the suicide bomber) does not feel the pain of his wounds and he is forgiven for all his sins; he sees his seat in Paradise; he is saved from the torment of the grave; he is saved from the great horror of Judgment Day; he marries 'the black-eyed'; he vouches for 70 of his family members; he gains the crown of honor, the precious stone of which is better than this entire world and everything in it." [...] 47070 27 34_how do i unsubscribe from habonet?12_Ilana Berner20_ilanabr@bezeqint.net31_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 09:18:34 +0200624_ISO-8859-1 dear debbie, shalom!

can you help me? I have tried to unsubscibe from Habonet without success. do you know how to do it? thanks ilana

"A Room With A (Pool) View" B&B Ilana & Tzvia Hostesses Caesarea, Israel 050-624710 04 6363936 http://www.caesarea-b-and-b.150m.com



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 47098 19 79_Re: Pharaoh, Moses, Steve and Sue (Whatever happened to Bob and Carol, Ted a...0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:17:34 EST521_US-ASCII Here, here for recognizing that if the non-elite Palestinians desire statehood, then we should support their ambitions -- just not at the price of our own of much longer standing. Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 47118 26 61_Re: Pharaoh, Moses, Steve and Sue -A DRASH QUESTION FOR AMNON0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:27:28 EST579_US-ASCII Continuing the parallel -- parable.

God's object through Moses was to free the people and return them to their home. The process of bringing Pharaoh to the acceptance of god's plan was one of continuing escalation of plagues. Pharaoh had the choice to give in to inevitability at any point, but did not. We might ask what was God's eleventh plague? Perhaps just to leave us there. :) the cycle of escalation works from both Palestinian and Israeli side, and we don't have the out of saying it was Pharaoh's fault, because he resisted the will of God. As God [...] 47145 66 27_Hebrew & Yiddish Literature16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:32:29 -0500468_us-ascii THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN MODERN YIDDISH AND HEBREW LITERATURE

Please join us on Tuesday, April 9 at 7:30 p.m. for The Relationship Between Modern Yiddish and Hebrew Literature, a lecture by Hillel Halkin.

Modern Hebrew and Yiddish literature shared the same cradle: the cultural ferment of 19th-century Eastern and Central Europe. And like many brothers and sisters their relations have often been characterized by intense sibling rivalry. [...] 47212 39 16_Zionist Congress16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:16:26 -0500622_us-ascii A few thoughts on the Zionist Congress elections. This is a subject in which I usually don't involve myself. But I felt the need to clarify after Mark Seal's bromide. At the last Congress and sundry subsequent WZO meetings, Labor & Meretz voted the same on every issue. So it seems to me that Meretz doesn't necessarily deserve all the paeans to morality that its partisans on Habonet have been giving it. Regarding Habonim vs. LZA and Labor's statement. Habonim representatives were coauthors of the Labor ideology statement, and they voted for the final version. Habonim's "human rights" projects include, [...] 47252 62 63_ConscientiousObjectors/Soldiers of Peace: The Courage to refuse0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:17:02 -0500698_iso-8859-1 Greetings everyone,

Although the West Bank/Gaza resisters are a small minority, they are in line with the highest ideals of prophetic Judaism. The Prophets, too, were a minority.

All the very best on Pesach!

Shloime









>Courage to Refuse - Combatant's Letter U.S. citizens who wish to make a donation click here >LinksSupport us! Click here to join the civil support petition! Judaism in favor Wives of Israeli Soldiers Pettition Articles & Links Discussion Forum F.A.Q. We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the people [...] 47315 155 17_HAPPY PASSOVER!!!0_20_Barrygrushkin@cs.com29_Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:07:10 EST624_US-ASCII HAPPY PASSOVER!!!

Here is a freedom story for all. Enjoy!

Regards, Barry Grushkin (Gallil '68-70), June Loeffler and Anaya

Freedom Sweet Arises - The Telling of a Story

Telling a story is never an again. The teller changes, the listener changes, the light is different, new histories have happened, the food is heavier, the head is lighter. A retelling is always different, different sentences defusing to differing layers of the consciousness, different images bubble to the surface, new events are asking, new reflections are looking, looking for placement in the mirror of time. [...] 47471 102 18_Lessons of History12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 28 Mar 2002 00:05:14 +0200543_us-ascii Haverim/ot Many years ago I used to teach history as a profession. At the time I was a member of a kibbutz and in those halcyon, salad days when haverim were not paid I told my students that my profession is that which I professed -- what I believed in. I believed with perfect faith that the whole point of Jewish History was that I should be living in a kibbutz in Israel. I have learned since then that history does not teach anything. Individuals and groups tell one that history does but that is usually because the want to [...] 47574 47 12_Abraham Fund13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:54:18 +0200120_windows-1255 Hey Pearl, re; the playground funding, do you know about these guys? www.abrahamfund.org/ Chag Sameach, Jon 47622 52 31_Please don't subject us to this12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:06:15 +0200580_us-ascii Doug, There are many cliches abroad in the naked city, some more revealing about their purveyors than others, some despite their length of time in circulation truer than others. Take, for instance, "size doesn't matter. Last night after our seder, after the carnage unleashed by the suicide bomber at another seder held at a Netanya hotel I posted a 993 word original piece about the lessons of history. You posted a 1,155 retread of an article By Jock L. Falkson. I was sure that your's was immensely longer. But mine was in size 10 Times New Roman font and your's [...] 47675 75 14_A Drash Shalom12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:19:25 +0200574_iso-8859-1 Dennis, Dennis of the hard questions and the enabling apertures You wrote A DRASH QUESTION FOR AMNON God’s object through Moses was to free the people and return them to their home. The process of bringing Pharaoh to the acceptance of god’s plan was one of continuing escalation of plagues. Pharaoh had the choice to give in to inevitability at any point, but did not. We might ask what was God’s eleventh plague? Perhaps just to leave us there. :) the cycle of escalation works from both Palestinian and Israeli side, and we don’t have the out of saying it [...] 47751 22 22_Re: Lessons of History0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:02:57 EST337_US-ASCII It is always hard to take issue with Amnon. He has experience, enormous learning, and obvious love for us. But I have to ask: What about the last 50 years says that in exchange for this land there is anything like peace or something that feels like permanence? If we exchange guilt for old borders -- what have we changed? [...] 47774 24 35_Re: Please don't subject us to this0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Mar 2002 09:09:58 EST503_US-ASCII Amnon, your response triggered this thought. By virtue (not literally) of our history we are wired to root for the underdog, for the oppressed. We should know that hatred is the reward, because the oppressed hate those that stand above them, because (mistakenly) they believe -- or are repeatedly told by their self serving leaders -- that those above them are the impediment to their doing better. It is certainly unusual for us to reach our hand out to those whose primary target is us. [...] 47799 17 48_Re: A Drash Shalom-The hardest simplest question0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Mar 2002 11:59:37 EST485_US-ASCII At the risk of sounding like one of the four sons ( sic)- I ask Amnon: Aside from "getting out of Dodge"- what is your solution to all of this?..susie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 47817 236 39_Latest Poll by Yediot Achronot-March 2913_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:30:51 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)542_windows-1255 1. Whom would you prefer to be Prime Minister? Sharon-50% Ben-Eliezer-25%

2. If elections were held today, who would you vote for? (This is out of 120 Knesset seats. numbers in brackets, existing seats)

One Israel or Labour Party (26)-18 Likud (19) 31 Shaas (17) 14 Meretz (10) 10 Yisrael b"aliya (Sharansky) (6) 3 Shinui (6) 10 Mafdal (5) 5 Yehadut Hatorah (5) 5 United national and Israel b"aliyah (led by Liberman) (8) 9 Habchira hademocrati (-) 1-2 Am Echad (peretz Histadrut) (2)`2-3 Arab Parties (10) 11 [...] 48054 97 44_Internationals Come Under Fire in Ambulances0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:06:12 -0500648_iso-8859-1 Shabbat Shalom!

A Habonim friend sent me two emails on the current situation in Ramallah. Here is the first.

Shloime



>> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 11:07 AM >> Subject: Fw: [palsolidarity] Internationals Come >> Under Fire in Ambulances >> >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Huwaida Arraf >> To: palsolidarity@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:35 AM >> Subject: [palsolidarity] Internationals Come Under >> Fire in Ambulances >> >> >> March 29, 2002 >> >> [Ramallah] >> >> International civilians are trying to assist >> ambulance teams in Ramallah as they attempt to get >> [...] 48152 90 77_=?ISO-8859-1?B?UkU6IEZ3ZDogRnc6IKBVUkdFTlQgRlJPTSBIVVdBSURBIElOIFJBTUFMTEFI?=0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 17:09:36 -0500594_iso-8859-1 . . . the second one.

Shloime

>> >> Subject: Fw: URGENT FROM HUWAIDA IN RAMALLAH >> Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:16:21 -0800 >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Huwaida Arraf >> To: palsolidarity@yahoogroups.com >> Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 6:14 AM >> Subject: [palsolidarity] URGENT FROM PALESTINE >> >> >> >> Urgent from Palestine >> >> >> Friends as you may be hearing, seeing or reading the >> situation in Palestine is desperate. Israeli forces >> have invaded almost every area of Ramallah and we >> are under heavy tank shelling and gun fire. An [...] 48243 144 36_Fwd: Bomber Found in PLO "Ambulance"0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:01:53 EST89_US-ASCII To Sol- for every action, there is an equal reaction- simple law of physics..sue 48388 24 68_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_RE:_Fwd:_Fw:_=A0URGENT_FROM_HUWAIDA_IN_RAMALLAH?=0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 18:34:26 EST564_ISO-8859-1 Well, here's my question/comment.

There have been a number of reports over the past few months of Palestinian terrorists hiding in Red Crescent ambulances, using them as shields, firing from them.

So what is Israel supposed to do? Damned if we do and damned if we don't. Do we just allow all Red Crescent ambulances to operate and take the (substantial and substantiated) risk that terrorists will use them? Should we just prevent Red Crescent ambulances from moving? Should we send in Magen David Adom, and thereby draw direct fire? [...] 48413 323 48_Re: Internationals Come Under Fire in Ambulances13_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 04:44:39 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)421_windows-1255

Hey Reb Shloime Perhaps you haven't heard but the PLO is using ambulances not only to transport the sick and wounded but ammunition and explosive material, enough to kill another 20 people and maim a hundred or so.

-------Original Message-------

From: habonet@shamash.org Date: ùáú 30 îøõ 2002 00:08:23 To: Habonet@shamash.org Subject: Internationals Come Under Fire in Ambulances [...] 48737 21 15_HaAretz Article9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 19:19:03 -0800587_us-ascii Check out an article in the Anglo File in the on line issue March 30 of HaAretz. Workshoppers are reported to be pissing off the citizens of Karmiel by passing out B'Tselem publications. I thought some of you might want to read the article.

Norm

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 48759 120 23_the article in question0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:42:18 EST404_US-ASCII Northerners slam British, U.S. youth protesters > Habonim Dror group denies claims that it is `aiding Israel's enemies.' > By Charlotte Halle

Irate passersby have criticized and verbally abused a group of 18-year-old Brits and Americans who have launched a campaign in the North against human rights violations by the Israeli government. [...] 48880 116 35_hopfully w/out attachment this time0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:48:50 EST657_US-ASCII Northerners slam British, U.S. youth protesters > Habonim Dror group denies claims that it is `aiding Israel's enemies.' >

Irate passersby have criticized and verbally abused a group of 18-year-old Brits and Americans who have launched a campaign in the North against human rights violations by the Israeli government.

The project is the initiative of a 29-strong group that is spending its post-high school year in Israel with the Zionist youth movement Habonim Dror. During recent weeks, the teenagers have set up a stand in downtown Karmiel and handed out information about human rights abuses in the territories and minority [...] 48997 32 30_Internationals Come Under Fire21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy16_tsippi@attbi.com31_Fri, 29 Mar 2002 21:45:19 -0800472_us-ascii Dear Shloime (or Sol as I knew you at Gilboa),

I didn't read anything from you expressing grief for the murdered Israeli victims of the recent terrorist attacks, only the forwarded crap about foreigners sheltering the poor palestinian injured . Why is that--does your pity extend only to the Arabs?

To paraphrase a famous American freedom fighter: I will fight to the death for your right to express your opinion, but it makes me want to puke. [...] 49030 39 11_The endgame0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 03:29:19 EST579_US-ASCII I have an extreme amount of sympathy for those living in Israel. I have family and friends there. I believe the Palestinians are primarily responsible for the violence that now engulfs the area. I also believe that the Israeli retaliation is justified, morally and legally.

What I don't understand, and what I would like one of you with more hawkish views to explain, is what is to be gained by this retaliation? Is peace more likely because of the actions of the IDF in the West Bank and Gaza? Will people who are willing to blow themselves stop because of [...] 49070 214 15_Re: The endgame13_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:26:39 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)624_windows-1255



-------Original Message-------

From: habonet@shamash.org Date: ùáú 30 îøõ 2002 10:30:16 To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: The endgame

I don't know what kind of bird I am but to quote Ezer Wiseman, I'd rather be a hawk then a sitting duck. It is obvious that Arafat is not a partner to any peace agreement. Rabin gave him 40,000 guns for his police force but his arsenal now includes, in adition to mortars, rocket propelled guns, anti-tank weapons etc. This is not in keeping with the agreement that he signed but it's nothing new to him He hasn't kept any of his promises. In [...] 49285 108 30_Tsippi, your letter to shloime13_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:33:36 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)126_windows-1255 Tsippi, Shabbat Shalom

You made my Shabbat with you letter to Shloimeh.

Kol Hakavod



49394 70 34_Re: Internationals Come Under Fire11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:21:38 -0500566_us-ascii "Tsippi (Frances) Rudy" wrote:

> Dear Shloime (or Sol as I knew you at Gilboa), > > I didn't read anything from you expressing grief for the murdered Israeli > victims of the recent terrorist attacks, only the forwarded crap about > foreigners sheltering the poor palestinian injured . Why is that--does > your pity extend only to the Arabs? > > To paraphrase a famous American freedom fighter: I will fight to the death > for your right to express your opinion, but it makes me want to puke. > > So does the idea of Workshoppers leafleting for [...] 49465 23 15_Re: The endgame0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 08:31:25 EST522_US-ASCII Richard as one of those more hawkish ones. Let me ask you, what is the endgame if the retaliation stops? Will those who want no peace with Israel stop sending youngsters to blow themselves up in our midst? Will those who want no Israel compromise on the '67 borders? Will simple acceptance of the Saudi vision a) permit the continued existence of a Jewish State? b) change the hearts and minds of the Arab population trained for fifty years to hate us? c) truly end the hostilities that began in '48? Dennis [...] 49489 84 11_unsubscribe12_Ilana Berner20_ilanabr@bezeqint.net31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:57:07 +0200207_Windows-1252 unsubscribe

"A Room With A (Pool) View" B&B Ilana & Tzvia Hostesses 23 Harimon St.,Caesarea, Israel 050-624710 04 6363936 ilanabr@bezeqint.com http://www.caesarea-b-and-b.150m.com

49574 37 11_unsubscribe13_fredi arditti24_frediarditti@hotmail.com31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 14:07:30 +0000 49612 31 18_how to unsubscribe11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:04:59 -0500736_us-ascii There have been a number of requests to unsubscribe sent to the list. This is not how it's done.

Here are the instructions from the monthly frequently asked questions message:

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with the following message:

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------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 49644 69 15_Re: The endgame11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:19:13 -0500339_us-ascii

Hi Dennis,

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I believe I know a thing or two.

DLerner569@aol.com wrote:

> Richard as one of those more hawkish ones. Let me ask you, what is the > endgame if the retaliation stops?

We've seen that the retaliation has only led to more attacks. [...] 49714 184 15_Fw: unsubscribe14_Evelyn Sheskin23_esheskin@mishkei.org.il57_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 17:23:32 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)647_windows-1255 Please remove me from your list. Thank you. Unsubscribe. -------Original Message-------

From: habonet@shamash.org Date: ùáú 30 îøõ 2002 16:07:52 To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe









http://bermangroup.com/youth/communities.htm >From: "Ilana Berner" >Reply-To: habonet@shamash.org >To: >Subject: unsubscribe >Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:57:07 +0200 > >unsubscribe > >"A Room With A (Pool) View" B&B >Ilana & Tzvia Hostesses >23 Harimon St.,Caesarea, Israel >050-624710 04 6363936 >ilanabr@bezeqint.com >http://www.caesarea-b-and-b.150m.com > ><< BernerIlana.vcf >> 49899 61 34_RE: Internationals Come Under Fire0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:29:10 -0500628_iso-8859-1 Thanks for your email, Tsippi. I was never at Gilboa, but be that as it may, I don't believe in personalizing disagreements about Israeli and the Palestinians.

I don't need to prove that I'm against anyone being killed, period, including in the death penalty, euthanasia or the exploitation of nonhuman animals. At the same time, I think that the IDF's current attack will represent a "sea change" in Israeli/Palestinian relations and that only outside governments, particular the U.S., will be able to stop the fighting. I believe that in Israel there are many Jews, albeit a minority, who disagree with [...] 49961 25 13_Unsubscribers0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:34:03 EST571_US-ASCII I am saddened by the number of our Israeli chevre who wish to unsubscribe to a venue which should be, especially in this time, supportive and compassionate...I realize this is also a forum for ideas...and that I am sure that our chevre in Israel are going through some of the same philosophical angst that we, who have the time and luxury of living in a place not necessarily threatened by daily bombs can have...But let's be supportive...I may not like what is being done in response to the terror- But I also do not purport to know everything either, and [...] 49987 130 70_RE: NYTimes.com Article: More War Is Not the Route to Israeli Security0_23_rebshloime@netscape.net31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 20:52:53 -0500385_iso-8859-1



More War Is Not the Route to Israeli Security

March 30, 2002, The New York Times

By YOSSI BEILIN

TEL AVIV - The terrible terrorist events that have struck Israel on the Passover holiday have generated an understandable feeling that "something must be done." Not surprisingly, that has meant waging war on the Palestinian Authority. [...] 50118 19 61_Number of reservists refusing to serve in territories now 37511_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Sat, 30 Mar 2002 21:14:02 -0800498_iso-8859-1 article dated March 31 can be found at: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=147104&contrassID =1&subContrassID=0&sbSubContrassID=0



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 50138 52 15_Re: The endgame0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 00:44:47 EST598_US-ASCII Noam,

I know that we have always been ready to negotiate peace with anyone who considers themselves to be at war with us. the question has always been with whom do we negotiate. The test is can you (the negotiating party exercise a reasonable degree of control over those you represent? the Oslo predicate (I conclude) was give us (the Palestinians) the tools to work with and we'll demonstate our ability to provide civil control, Israel did and the Intifada resulted, with no credible attempt to control the population but rather a continuing effort to incite it. So one the [...] 50191 274 33_Fwd: IDF Backgrounder on Ramallah0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:36:15 EST17_US-ASCII

50466 118 54_Fwd: List of Weapons Found so far in Arafat's Compound0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 01:37:08 EST17_US-ASCII

50585 95 46_Suicidal Lies, Thomas Friedman, March 31, 200211_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 07:11:07 -0600449_ISO-8859-1

Suicidal Lies

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

The outcome of the war now under way between the Israelis and Palestinians is vital to the security of every American, and indeed, I believe, to all of civilization. Why? Quite simply because Palestinians are testing out a whole new form of warfare, using suicide bombers — strapped with dynamite and dressed as Israelis — to achieve their political aims. And it is working. [...] 50681 25 15_Re: The endgame11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 08:53:00 -0500586_us-ascii Dennis,

I don't read anything in your answer which addresses the subject. How does the current approach result in a positive outcome? What leads you to believe it will result in fewer attacks against Israel rather than more?

Noam



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 50707 43 15_Re: The endgame0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:45:56 EST425_US-ASCII I believe that history shows that the number and frequency of attacks are proportionate to the apparent proximity of a cease fire or peace progress. It is hard to conclude from this that anything short of a complete withdrawal from the Middle East will result is a cessation of attacks - and then I won't know whether the drop in attacks is because, they have what they want, or because we aren't within reach. [...] 50751 73 15_Re: The endgame11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 09:59:01 -0500337_us-ascii DLerner569@aol.com wrote:

> I believe that history shows that the number and frequency of attacks are > proportionate to the apparent proximity of a cease fire or peace progress.

I disagree. I think history shows that in the early years after Oslo, when hope of a just peace was high, there were few attacks. [...] 50825 29 28_camp david and/or taba maps?11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:19:20 -0500411_us-ascii

There has been a lot of talk about the generous offer of 90 something percent of territory at Camp David and Taba, while the other side talks about Bantustan. I have yet to see the maps that were proposed. I have seen a map from May 2000, which supports the Bantustan assertion, but I assume that the later maps were more contiguous. I'd rather know than assume. Are these maps available? [...] 50855 38 15_Re: The endgame0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:33:58 EST407_US-ASCII I don't see the current Israeli approach as productive of peace. I see it as a policy of attrition focused on a) not allowing the Palestinian strategy of killing Israeli citizens to be successful in winning an Israeli unilateral withdrawal, and b) of incrementally destroying the symbols of PA authority as a political and prestige cost, without significant loss of Palestinian civilian life. [...] 50894 127 17_Fwd: Pretaliation0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:41:18 EST49_US-ASCII Noam, here is my earlier posting. Dennis 51022 276 14_JPost-March 3113_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:20:08 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)617_windows-1255 Politics of hypocrisy



David J. FormanMarch, 31 2002





(March 31) - There he was, US Secretary of State Colin Powell, telling the world that he "deplores the killing of innocent Palestinians." He went on to say that it was not up to him to tell Israel how it should defend itself, but"Israel should decide whether its present actions serve the interest of its citizens." Well, General Powell, it is not up to me to tell America how to defend itself, but the US should decide whether killing thousands of Afghan innocents is the best way to pursue Osama bin Laden. [...] 51299 154 61_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiB0aGUgYXJ0aWNsZSBpbiBxdWVzdGlvbg==?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 21:32:26 +0200587_iso-8859-1 "There is nothing new under the sun" said King Solomon. And how right he was. It's right to be concerned about the rights of others, but, there is no excuse to wanting to exercise those rights for only ONE GROUP. This is usually proposed by the ignorant and un-educated, which make them blind to the whole facts of the case. The enemies of the Jews, which include the Moslems and Christians have Never, Never considered the JEW'S CIVIL RIGHTS, except when conscience and politics play a role. So, please, stop being so bleeding thoughtful of those who have brought their [...] 51454 303 69_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiDh8vDp6e86IHRoZSBhcnRpY2xlIGluIHF1ZXN0aW9u?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 22:25:50 +0200629_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: ericmoli To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2002 9:32 PM Subject: áòðééï: the article in question



"There is nothing new under the sun" said King Solomon. And how right he was. It's right to be concerned about the rights of others, but, there is no excuse to wanting to exercise those rights for only ONE GROUP. This is usually proposed by the ignorant and un-educated, which make them blind to the whole facts of the case. The enemies of the Jews, which include the Moslems and Christians have Never, Never considered the JEW'S CIVIL RIGHTS, [...] 51758 42 92_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=E1=F2=F0=E9=E9=EF:=20the=20article=20in=20?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?question?=0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 15:02:29 EST396_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/31/02 1:33:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, ericmoli@netvision.net.il writes:



> The enemies of the Jews, which include the Moslems and Christians have > Never, Never considered the JEW'S CIVIL RIGHTS, except when conscience and > politics play a role.

What does this mean? "...except when conscience and politics play a role..." When else is there? 51801 54 31_Call for articles for Chadashot12_Trilby Smith18_trilbyds@yahoo.com37_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:53:09 -0800 (PST)570_us-ascii Dear Habonetters,

As many of you are probably aware, there is a big June celebration being planned for the 50th Anniversary of the Workshop program in New York City. As part of this event, we are publishing an issue of Chadashot, the newsletter of the Habonim Dror Foundation. This issue will be combined with an adbook, and will serve as a fundraiser for the Foundation. I am soliciting articles for this issue on the theme of "50 Years of Workshop - a Retrospective." I would like to have at least one article from each decade of Workshop - and I [...] 51856 18 15_wokshop reunion0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 17:41:23 EST474_US-ASCII Is anyone from the 14th Workshop planning to be in New York in June for the reunion? I'm planning a trip and might do it then. Aviva Tauman

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 51875 590 2_EU0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:06:10 EST780_US-ASCII

Monday, April 01, 2002 Nisan 19, 5762 Israel Time: if (!document.layers)document.write('')02:49 (GMT+3)

startTime('02:46:56'); if (document.layers) document.write("");





EU description of the outcome of permanent status talks at Taba









Introduction This EU non-paper has been prepared by the EU Special Representative to the Middle East Process, Ambassador Moratinos, and his team after consultations with the Israeli and Palestinian sides, present at Taba in January 2001. Although the paper has no official status, it has been acknowledged by the parties as being a relatively fair description of the outcome of the negotiations on the permanent status issues at Taba. It draws attention to [...] 52466 18 6_Re: EU0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 19:28:00 EST399_US-ASCII Sam this is great stuff. Where do you come by it? Thanks, Dennis

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 52485 109 2_eu13_moshe sheskin29_moshes7@mail.netvision.net.il57_Mon, 01 Apr 2002 03:57:04 +0200 (Jerusalem Standard Time)268_windows-1255 Sam, That was extremely interesting. So what happened? I imagine thatwith Arafat s rejection of Barak's proposal, everything is at a standstill and this document would be relegated to history. Please give me your impressions and thanks again.

Moshe 52595 16 6_Re: EU0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 20:19:48 EST358_US-ASCII Haraetz web site.......

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 52612 31 27_"Promises"- the documentary0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 31 Mar 2002 23:16:29 EST243_US-ASCII If this film is playing anywhere in your city- go and see it- You get to see this conflcit through the eyes of children....I was taken in honestly and innocently by the plight of the Palestinian children...you owe it to yourself...sue