1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet November 2001 2 16 17_West Wing Tonight11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Wed, 31 Oct 2001 21:57:01 -0800398_iso-8859-1 Did anyone watch tonight's episode? If so, what do you think?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 19 42 11_Re: Hope???13_avi rosenberg16_avi@gezer.org.il31_Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:05:47 +0200649_us-ascii And what cause is that? There were a few bereaved parents on that list. I believe they have made the ultimate sacrifice in this struggle. Are they also "defeatists" and "quislings".







>In fact, this is not a joint declaration by Palestinian and Israeli equals. >It is a declaration by Palestinian nationalists and Israeli quislings and >defeatists -- OF COURSE THEY AGREE! HOW CAN THEY NOT? THEY BELIEVE IN THE >SAME CAUSE. Such useless attempts appear with great frequency, about every >2-3 months -- and they're all less than worthless. > >If you want a declaration that's worth something, find Israelis [...] 62 44 30_Re: Why Muslims commit suicide12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 01 Nov 2001 22:27:23 +0200575_us-ascii Dave, I was going to stay out of the fray, not due to a neutral position on the substantive issue of jokes on Habonet nor the specifics of your posting on Muslims nor other people's impassioned calls for limits. In principle I am opposed to limits because they can deprive dialogue of its vitality. And Judy, if I've gotten to know her, from what she writes, can take care of herself. No, I'm afraid that because you felt attacked, you responded "instinctivit" as any well trained master sergeant in the IDF would. You mounted a massive counter fire. Listing a [...] 107 31 30_Re: Why Muslims commit suicide0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Thu, 1 Nov 2001 17:07:11 EST103_US-ASCII Amnon. This means that you are back (I specialize in stating the obvious) Welcome home. Dennis 139 337 34_New York State of Mind , Tom Segev11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Thu, 1 Nov 2001 20:56:15 -0600646_us-ascii New York state of mind

By Tom Segev









Sad cityscape: A young woman of Pakistani origin speaks at a rally in Times Square protesting the U.S. bombing of Afghanistan; a fireman receives a bouquet of flowers at a memorial ceremony for the September 11 victims . (Photo: Photos by AP)





NEW YORK - This week, America celebrated its Purim. On All Saints' Day - Halloween - children in costume go around bothering their neighbors, as if they belonged to some terror organization: Either they get candy treats from the neighbors, or they subject them to some scary "trick." [...] 477 17 29_Brian Cooper's E-mail address15_Nechemia Meyers32_rrmeyers@wisemail.weizmann.ac.il31_Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:09:54 +0200444_US-ASCII Sorry to do it this way, but have no alternative. Does Brain Cooper have a new E-mail address? Nechemia Meyers

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org ----------------------- 495 28 38_Re: New York State of Mind , Tom Segev0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 04:55:32 EST589_US-ASCII Pardon my ignorance, but who is Tom Segev? His report sounds like he has not ventured beyond the New York -- Washington, DC corridor during the current crisis, at least in his TV news viewing. Maybe things are different since September 11, but every time I've watched the evening news when on travel far from DC, I am once again reminded (and hardly disappointed!) that the rest of the country doesn't usually open their report with whatever Washington's local stations are touting as the most important news in the world. Or, as a listener recently wrote to NPR's-- I think [...] 524 42 38_Re: New York State of Mind , Tom Segev13_avi rosenberg16_avi@gezer.org.il31_Fri, 02 Nov 2001 12:16:28 +0200338_us-ascii Tom Segev is a highly esteemed journalist for Haaretz and historical writer. He's published books on the current conflict and the Holocaust. I might also add that Israeli media in general seems to love reporting on what's going on in New York, etc., although I don't know how much the Israeli public is actually interested. [...] 567 49 30_Re: Why Muslims commit suicide14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 13:56:05 +0200530_iso-8859-1 Dear Amnon,

I fired from the hip because I was attacked as being a racist and other not-so-nice names just for posting a little bit of humor. I have no fight with the lady mentioned, for she has every right to say what she wants on Habonet, just as I have. And that is the point - EVERYONE has a right to say whatever they want. I am sure that there are many people on Habonet who thought the posting was funny precisely because it strikes so close to home and to the truth. If you don't like something you [...] 617 35 30_Re: Why Muslims commit suicide0_15_Marshlf@aol.com28_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 07:39:39 EST274_US-ASCII ok, ok, yes we all have a delete button, and yes, we all (mostly) have a sense of humor, and yes, we don't wanna squash dialogue, and yes, i thought it was funny, and yes, i abhor racism, and yes i'm glad you are there, both judy and dave.... next subject.... [...] 653 52 30_Re: Why Muslims commit suicide14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:42:37 +0200110_iso-8859-1 Dear Lisa,

I second the motion to move on. And I'm sorry if anyone was offended.

Dave 706 56 30_Re: Why Muslims commit suicide0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:14:21 EST558_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/2/01 4:00:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, carmdave@urim.org.il writes:

I> don't want some > one who lives in the comfort of the suburbs of an American city to tell me > what to do and how to do it when it comes to my security.

Dave- While I agree with your sentiments, and also agree that you live in a highly stressful environment- let me just remind you that we who live in America are not so "comfortable and safe " anymore- and the stresses are basically the same- the fears of terror and not knowing where [...] 763 35 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:27:26 -0500580_us-ascii Holtzer Family wrote:

> ... I fired from the hip because I was attacked as being a racist and other > not-so-nice names just for posting a little bit of humor.

Dave,

You can send what you want as far as I'm concerned, but when the humor is racist (seems clear we all have different views on the question of what is racist as with everything else) don't be surprised when you catch some flak. Consider the not-so-nice names hurled the way of those who have the temerity to occasionally criticize Israel or hope for peace on this list, especially [...] 799 75 30_RE: Why Muslims commit suicide11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:29:54 -0800544_iso-8859-1 Dear Dave Holtzer

I wasn't going to enter this fray because my time has become so consumed over the past couple of weeks.

You seem like a great guy, at least according to my value system. The joke you put up was in bad taste,that's all.It would be awful if people who cared for you never told you if your fly was open or if you'd stepped in dogpoop, or had spinach in your teeth. This time it was just a joke that wasn't funny. Lethal for a joke; only embarrassing for a joke-teller. Keep up your good works. Lose [...] 875 69 38_RE: New York State of Mind , Tom Segev11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com30_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 08:29:55 -0800386_us-ascii Avi

If you are going to listen to NPR, then be ready to hear anti-Israel stuff most of the time. Chomsky is a favorite. It's regrettable, but you can't change the whole world. Jews are held to a different set of rules, I guess. Anything an Arab does is seen as Cute, Quaint, Justifiable, Understandable, Excusable, etc etc etc. Jews? Never could do anything right. [...] 945 58 46_Do Muslims commit suicide - & if not, why not?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:01:27 +0200488_windows-1255 Dave, in the spirit of protecting free speech on the Habonet, I'd just like to say that the joke was only so-so, but your response was perfect. I get a little weirded out when I see that some people on this list really expect to read only stuff that they agree with or that doesn't offend their political or social sensibilities,or that doesn't appeal to their (supposed) sense of humor. It's only a joke, folks. Let them bite! Your fellow master sergeant and medic, Jon Baum 1004 81 33_Re: Lewis' NY Times latest column0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Fri, 2 Nov 2001 14:11:46 EST586_US-ASCII There is a new article in this months Harpers magazine about Gaza and the settlements. I heard the interview on Terry Gross about the article. These settlements and shameful and dangerous to the continuation of Israel. I am still stunned that there a people here on Habonet voicing even slight support for these settlements. Failure to dismantle the settlements and to remove the Jewish Hamas from the territories will spell the end of the state of Israel. I am happy to hear that Peres is push Sharon to dismantle all the settlements in Gaza. We need to raise our voices [...] 1086 850 24_Yes, This Is About Islam16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 02 Nov 2001 16:29:54 -050070_us-ascii

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/02/opinion/02RUSH.html 1937 58 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 01:00:06 +0200533_iso-8859-1 Dear Noam,

My pistol is certainly not your tax dollars at work. For your information, my pistol is mine, bought and paid for over the counter with my hard earned sheqels. I pay a yearly license, range fees and ammo when I practice. My years in the IDF and milu'im were my years that I ate shit, laid in the snow and mud for hours at night on ambush. My time in the army prevented me from being at the birth of my second child and made me miss holidays and birthdays. My time in the Border Police is volunteer, [...] 1996 48 50_Re: Do Muslims commit suicide - & if not, why not?14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 01:05:11 +020092_windows-1255 Thank you Jon, for your support.

Dave Chovesh Bachir G'dud 496, Ugda 440 2045 366 50_RE: Do Muslims commit suicide - & if not, why not?12_Dave Edelman21_docdave@optonline.net31_Fri, 02 Nov 2001 20:01:34 -0500620_windows-1255 Jonathan,

On the surface, the joke was so-so, but I think that with a bit more reflection it’s possible to see the invidious and insidious aspect of that and all similar jokes (the internet is full of them.)

These jokes trivialize the enemy. Let’s face it; we would all prefer an enemy that was incompetent and harmless. How convenient the Human Bomb instructor who stands in front of the class saying “Watch close, I’m only gonna do this once.” The reality is far different. The September 11th attacks were well planned, well coordinated and well designed to cause tremendous disruption [...] 2412 48 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 02 Nov 2001 21:35:04 -0500572_us-ascii Dear Dave,

Sorry if you feel we in America are insufficiently supportive or are unable to understand the difficulties you face in your daily life. I certainly have no illusions about your feelings about Americans.

Fine you bought your pistol. My point is that the Suburban Americans you sneer at and make fun of happen to pay for the F16s you use to (justifably) pummel your neighbors and many of the other fine tools of the trade that help keep the IDF ahead of the curve. Those of us who support Israel, perhaps not by laying in the snow and [...] 2461 49 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 02:28:58 EST604_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/2/01 9:38:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, n.stopak@scienceserver.com writes:



> I still don't see why you think "jokes" which denigrate an entire group > of people as a stereotype are anything but racist

To change the subject slightly, can a joke about Arabs be racist? Are Arabs a race? Aren't Jews and Arabs the same race? Its one of my major problems with the antiracist conference last summer. If they had said that Israel discriminates against other ethnic groups I don't think anyone could argue with that accusation. But "racist" doesn't fit. [...] 2511 29 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 10:18:45 +0200439_iso-8859-1 "I still don't see why you think "jokes" which denigrate an entire group of people as a stereotype are anything but racist, but you are entitled to your views and your sense of humor. All I'm saying is that everyone else is too, and if you don't like the response, well, maybe you should consider how you would respond to a similar "joke" pointed at Jews or kibbutznikim or whatever other group you chose to identify with" [...] 2541 39 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sat, 03 Nov 2001 07:49:09 -0500420_us-ascii



Holtzer Family wrote:

> ... Dear Noam, > > Many, many jokes are around about Jews. Hear the one about the priest, > the minister and the rabbi? Or the one about how many JAP's it takes to > change a lightbulb? > > Dave

I've heard many about the priest, the minister and the rabbi. The lightbulb problem sounds like a hardware issue to me (that's a software engineering joke). [...] 2581 45 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:05:09 EST280_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/3/01 7:50:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, n.stopak@scienceserver.com writes:



> Richard - I agree that racism is overused - do you have a > better terminology to suggest? > >

Prejudiced, discriminatory, unfair, unfriendly, bad, ... 2627 226 9_Good news15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il30_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 16:20:17 +0200464_windows-1255 A few days ago I received the Summer-Fall 2001 copy of the Jewish Frontier – the first in several years, in spite of many offers to extend my subscription.

The cover has two big pictures of Labor MK Ophir Pines-Paz and a picture again showing O.P.P. together with several people of varying ages labeled “LZA and Habonim Dror Leadership”. Who O.P.P. is I know, but who are the others? A diligent search of the magazine did not reveal this. [...] 2854 131 26_answer to smgraffa and "Y"7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 03 Nov 2001 21:37:07 +0200632_iso-8859-1 Most of the people living over the green line are NON religious secularists. One must not forget that the kibbutzim once were also "settlements," their members "mitnachalim." Your calling the Jews living there Jewish Hamas is disgusting.and as removed from reality as you are. I would suggest that today's real international crime is what the United States of America is doing to Afghanistan, and our shouts of dismay should be directed against what the USA is doing to the civilian population of that country. A genuine horrific tragedy is befalling the Afghani people and seven million (7,000,000) people may very [...] 2986 75 31_Fwd: answer to smgraffa and "Y"0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 22:53:36 EST17_US-ASCII

3062 61 30_Re: answer to smgraffa and "Y"0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 23:05:02 EST400_US-ASCII

Richard, now we see what is wrong with the settlers movement. I called them Jewish Hamas. Jewish Al Queda might have been more on target. Pearl probably has a picture of Goldstein on one wall and a picture of Bin Laden on the other. Her opposition to the war in Afganistan is just one more reason to recognize that the settlerments must go soon. These people are out of control [...] 3124 19 33_Re: Brian Cooper's E-mail address0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Sat, 3 Nov 2001 23:38:41 EST424_US-ASCII The address I have for Brian, our esteemed moderator, is BCooper@descartes.com

ACC

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 3144 54 30_Re: answer to smgraffa and "Y"13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 00:48:44 -0500 3199 78 38_RE: New York State of Mind , Tom Segev13_avi rosenberg16_avi@gezer.org.il31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 08:21:13 +0200676_us-ascii What is NPR?



At 08:29 2001-11-02 -0800, you wrote: >Avi > >If you are going to listen to NPR, then be ready to hear anti-Israel stuff >most of the time. Chomsky is a favorite. It's regrettable, but you can't >change the whole world. Jews are held to a different set of rules, I guess. >Anything an Arab does is seen as Cute, Quaint, Justifiable, Understandable, >Excusable, etc etc etc. Jews? Never could do anything right. > >Steve > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On >Behalf Of avi rosenberg >Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 2:16 AM >To: habonet@shamash.org >Subject: Re: New York [...] 3278 39 0_13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 09:37:10 +020023_windows-1255 testing... 3318 104 30_Re: answer to smgraffa and "Y"7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 10:56:52 +0200558_iso-8859-1 I did not say I am against the war against terror in Afghanistan. I am against what is happening to the civilian population of Afghanistan who will surely die if refugee camps are not set up to protect them from the oncoming winter and starvation. What is happening to millions of refugees is a crime whichever way you look at it. For your information I have two pictures of Yitzhak Rabin on the wall and one of Ghandi, a friend of ours. And what does the war in Afghanistan have to do with "recogniz(ing) that the settlements must go soon?" [...] 3423 168 22_explanation and answer7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 12:15:53 +0200559_windows-1255 I am sorry if my plaint sounded like I do not support the US effort to destroy the Taliban.

I am appalled by what is happening to the innocent Afghani refugees. Millions (some say up to 7,000,000) men, women and children will die of the cold and starvation as a direct result of this war, which is turning virtually a whole nation of people into refugees just before the winter. Refugee camps should be immediately set up on a giant scale which can save them. If these people die that would be the crime I wrote about. Is it possible [...] 3592 512 64_broadcast detailing Arafat's direct order to murder of Americans7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 13:41:58 +0200650_iso-8859-1 I received this letter from someone, and was absolutely mesmerized by its contents. It is a must read for anyone interested in Palestinian terrorism. The transcript details Arafat's involvement in the murder of hundreds of Americans including the two American diplomats in Khartoum in the 1970's. An American intelligence analyst who was the one who discovered Arafat's involvement investigated for years what happened and was in contact with Mrs.Mater here who broadcast the information and the correspondence involved in the coverup. Included are letters to/from a Senate Committee. I wish to state for the record I am not a member [...] 4105 16 38_Re: New York State of Mind , Tom Segev0_18_Yentateleb@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 06:20:14 EST356_US-ASCII National Public Radio

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4122 50 12_(no subject)0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 08:01:34 EST532_US-ASCII It is time to dismantle the setttlements. Israel will die it we don't. Pearl is a good propogandist, but the settlements are a knife in the heart of Israel. The mitnachlim are a radicalizing element. Sharon may have broad support but it is shallow just as Bush's is here. People realize the need to hang tough in the short term, but in the long term Sharon has no plan. In the short term we can all support his reacting to to violence with violence. But were are we going to be in a year or ten years of fifty? What's [...] 4173 54 33_Re: Brian Cooper's E-mail address0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 09:13:24 EST312_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/3/01 11:39:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, SC523@aol.com writes:



> The address I have for Brian, our esteemed moderator, is > BCooper@descartes.com > >

Sorry... Not anymore! Please use brianscoop@aol.com to contact me going forward.

Regards, brian

4228 42 20_Removed from reality11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:46:21 -0500530_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:

> Most of the people living over the green line are NON religious secularists. ... Your calling the Jews living there Jewish Hamas is disgusting.and as removed from reality as you are.

Pearl,

I note that you take great offense when people call you or those with whom you agree various names, yet you have no problem with referring to various members of this list as "disturbed individuals" (message October 12) and "removed from reality" (above) to note just two recent examples. [...] 4271 23 46_workshop to spend several months in Jerusalem?11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 10:20:45 -0500575_us-ascii

Hi,

It has come to my attention that this year, for the first time (as far as I know), part of the Workshop program will be to spend several months in Jerusalem. As far as I know, this was not part of the program as presented to parents who were deciding whether to allow their children to participare. Since the wisdom of other movement decisions have been discussed here in the recent past, I thought I'd ask for your thoughts on this decision, especially in light of the attack today in French Hill, the Sbarro bombing, the ongoing attacks on [...] 4295 16 38_Re: New York State of Mind , Tom Segev0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:59:29 EST364_US-ASCII NPR is National Public Radio.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4312 43 26_Re: explanation and answer0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 11:42:24 EST458_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/4/01 5:44:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, skolnik@netvision.net.il writes:



> As for what pictures are on my wall: two of Yitzhak Rabin and one of >

I'm going out on a limb here and am going to guess the Ghandi mentioned above is not the heroic spiritual and political leader of India of the 1930's and 40's, but rather the Israeli fellow who advocated the expulsion of the racially impure from the Holy Land. 4356 32 26_Re: explanation and answer0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 11:55:28 EST367_US-ASCII

In a message dated 11/4/01 11:47:40 AM, Richardrdsmith@aol.com writes:

<< I'm going out on a limb here and am going to guess the Ghandi mentioned above is not the heroic spiritual and political leader of India of the 1930's and 40's, but rather the Israeli fellow who advocated the expulsion of the racially impure from the Holy Land. >> [...] 4389 33 26_Re: explanation and answer11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 12:13:04 -0500560_us-ascii DebALev@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 11/4/01 11:47:40 AM, Richardrdsmith@aol.com writes: > > << I'm going out on a limb here and am going to guess the Ghandi mentioned > above is not the heroic spiritual and political leader of India of the 1930's and > 40's, but rather the Israeli fellow who advocated the expulsion of the > racially impure from the Holy Land. >> > > My guess too, Richard. Any way, the one from India is spelled "GANDHI" and > the Israeli is referred to as "GHANDI." I wonder why the Israeli one was > nicknamed [...] 4423 96 49_=?iso-8859-1?B?5PLh+OQ6IGEgZmV3IG9uZSBsaW5lcnM=?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 21:02:44 +0200561_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Pnina Some To: Schwager Sema ; Lillian Liss ; Roni Some ; Mollie Eric Marx ; Alma Shlomo Lev ; Charlie Kalech ; Barbara Norm Some ; Issie Oiring ; Murray Moishe Oiring ; Julie Maury Tretakoff Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 11:55 PM Subject: Fw: a few one liners [...] 4520 51 22_answer to anti-Semites15_R. Heather Drye16_heather@drye.com31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 17:54:37 -0500402_us-ascii The wonderful comic, Sam Levinson, had a great answer to anti-Semites. "It's a free world and you don't have to like Jews, but if you DON'T, I suggest that you boycott certain Jewish products, like:

The Wasserman Test for syphilis,

Digitalis, discovered by Doctor Nuslin,

Insulin, discovered by Doctor Minofsky,

Chloral Hydrate, discovered by Doctor Lifreich, [...] 4572 49 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:22:02 EST519_US-ASCII Hey guys. Let's cut this shit out, huh. I mean, we are Jews. You don't get extra points because you like in Mea Charim instead of Cleveland, or in a pre-fab somewhere across the pre-67 border. If we start being better than one another then we are certainly no better than they are (Who ever "they" are). I read all of my Habonet mail because I want to learn. I appreciate the 2 of you who think just the way I do, but just between us, you don't teach me much. I learn heaps from those I don't agree with. [...] 4622 28 57_Re: not-so-nice names and the trials of American Suburbia0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:26:06 EST31_US-ASCII how about antisemetism 4651 52 30_Re: answer to smgraffa and "Y"0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:34:54 EST407_US-ASCII Sam and Pearl. Now that is offensive.

I don't really care why Muslims are susceptible to committing suicide, I just wish they would do it when we're nowhere around.

The settlements may be an impediment to peace, now and were a vehicle for peace once, but in neither case are the settlers and the settlements the same thing. Listen guys this bickering has got to stop. I mean it. [...] 4704 31 16_Re: (no subject)0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:44:23 EST131_US-ASCII Sam. I understand the passion you have about the settlements, but these last messages are having a negative effect. Dennis 4736 28 26_Re: explanation and answer0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 18:46:21 EST21_US-ASCII That's sick. 4765 38 64_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=E4=F2=E1=F8=E4:=20a=20few=20one=20liners?=0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 19:33:48 EST137_US-ASCII Please do not send forward mass malings to habonet.

----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com

4804 56 68_Re: broadcast detailing Arafat's direct order to murder of Americans0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com28_Sun, 4 Nov 2001 20:23:53 EST408_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/4/01 5:45:11 AM EST Pearl writes:

> The transcript details Arafat's involvement in the murder of hundreds of > Americans including the two American diplomats in Khartoum in the 1970's.

Is this story surprising?

Does raising it now somehow promote peace or any kind of settlement?



----------------------------- Brian Cooper brianscoop@aol.com 4861 135 12_Sari Nuseiba16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 04 Nov 2001 22:47:10 -0500433_us-ascii The following letter by Sari Nuseiba was posted on portside, a listserve of the Committees of correspondence who are folk who left CPUSA to form a group analogous to some of the CP's of the former Soviet bloc--e.g. sort of Soc. Dems. as opposed to the remnants here that still calls itself CPUSA. Yoav Peled, who posted the letter, is an Israeli who was involved in the formation of Breira in the US in the mid 1970's. [...] 4997 94 26_Re: explanation and answer7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 05 Nov 2001 01:31:39 +0200562_iso-8859-1 Sorry, but Ghandi never advocated the expulsion of the racially impure from the Holy Land as you write. Never is Never. Ghandi does not need anyone to defend him or to answer for him. Very few of us in Israel can stand in his shoes -- he was in the Palmach, fought in every war, was a general and held more important positions related to the security and safety of this country than almost anyone you can mention. His party did advocate voluntary emigration of Arabs, the emphasis is on voluntary. He was very respected in the Arab community for [...] 5092 54 26_Re: explanation and answer7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 05 Nov 2001 01:44:52 +0200539_iso-8859-1 Ghandi (General Rechavam Ze'evi z"l) was named that because when he was young he went to a Purim party and wore a white sheet as a costume. He wore glasses and was thinner when he was young, so everyone said he looked like the Indian Gandi. The name stuck. I never heard anyone call him Rechavam. He was murdered by an Arab terrorist who infiltrated the Hyatt Hotel in Jerusalem last month and shot him in the face. His murder shocked us to the core, much like that of Rabin. I knew him and very much respected him. He was [...] 5147 49 26_Re: explanation and answer7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 05 Nov 2001 01:46:42 +0200617_iso-8859-1 Ghandi was not bald. See other message how he got his name. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Noam Stopak To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2001 7:13 PM Subject: Re: explanation and answer



> DebALev@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 11/4/01 11:47:40 AM, Richardrdsmith@aol.com writes: > > > > << I'm going out on a limb here and am going to guess the Ghandi mentioned > > above is not the heroic spiritual and political leader of India of the 1930's and > > 40's, but rather the Israeli fellow who advocated the expulsion of [...] 5197 69 24_Re: Removed from reality7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 05 Nov 2001 01:58:05 +0200567_iso-8859-1 Yigal Amir was not a settler, but lived north of Tel Aviv. Dr. Goldstein was a very respected and beloved doctor even by the Arabs until he did his horrible deed. He lived in Kiryat Arba. He is one person out of over 200,000 people living over the Green Line. You can not call a whole population Jewish chamas because of a very few individuals. The person I answered wrote a general condemnation of Jews over the Green Line as chamasniks. Re being removed from reality -- that is probably one of the least offensive descriptions that has been printed [...] 5267 120 12_(no subject)0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 07:40:15 EST535_US-ASCII ( a sample of Peal's prose include at the bottom

Listen guys, I am really disinclined to bother to answer Pearl I have done so before. I have answered these exact words before. They are horrible distortions of the what is going on in the West Bank. Pearl has no compunctions about lying and distorting the truth on this page and she has done it repeatedly on this page. I am sure she doesn't do it out of malice. It is denial, it is an illness. She truely wants to believe the things she says. But it is not true. [...] 5388 333 20_taking it up a notch0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 11:39:18 EST578_UTF-8 I called it bickering, I can't help it when people I love start calling each other names and preaching their personal truths as "the truth", I become upset. Now my personal truth, well that's a different story. So here thanks to all of you and your stimulating perspectives, factual understanding and so on is what is my truth of the moment. If you find it personally affrontive, you found something I did not intend to put there. I apologize in advance. I make no claim of profundity, just of trying to divert our considerable collective enery into a hopefully more [...] 5722 50 42_and now for something completely different13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 19:01:07 +0200581_windows-1255 Ok, I know that we've already discussed this, but, even considering the subject matter, I'm a little surprised at the negative response that jokes seem to cause on Habonet. I'm pretty sure that I don't just speak for myself when I say that I treasure many of my best memories of the movement because I was with some of the funniest people I've ever met (including your brother, Batel). Humor had its place in almost every Habonim experience, and, along with the funny skits, medurot, onegei Shabbat, etc., we told a lot of jokes. They have their place along with [...] 5773 73 50_Re: workshop to spend several months in Jerusalem?14_Jessica Silver26_foundation@habonimdror.org30_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 12:10:46 -0500582_iso-8859-1 The following letter was written by Alexis Kort, the merkezet tochniot of the central office, and I am posting it on her behalf. Jessica Silver

Shalom Habonet!

I am the Merkekezet Tochniot at the Central Office. This year we are having our Workshoppers spend three months in Jerusalem to experience urban communal living. They will spending half of the week doing a Machon program with educators from the Jewish Agency, Habonim Dror, and HaNoar HaOved. The second half will be devoted to volunteering for social justice and human rights organizations. [...] 5847 101 68_Re: broadcast detailing Arafat's direct order to murder of Americans7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:52:03 +0200560_iso-8859-1 As much as we know about our country and our enemies it does not hurt to learn more, to know exactly with whom we are dealing. The point is not what you wrote, but how the story was covered up. The point is to realize that "what you see is what you get" is not always true: sometimes you get what you don't see. The point is that more happens behind the scenes than what you are aware of and these behind the scenes machinations lead to misinterpretation, misinformation, collusion, cooperation, agreements, etc. that are not based on facts or [...] 5949 58 26_Re: explanation and answer7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:52:28 +0200200_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: DLerner569@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 1:46 AM Subject: Re: explanation and answer



That's sick. 6008 39 26_Re: explanation and answer0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:23:13 EST182_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/5/01 4:06:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, skolnik@netvision.net.il writes:



>

I was not lashing out at him, I was lashing out at you. 6048 92 23_Re: HABONET digest 204917_Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 05 Nov 2001 23:13:01 +0200507_us-ascii In a message dated November 4, Richard Smith wrote:

"the Israeli fellow who advocated the expulsion of the racially impure from the Holy Land." in reference to Rehavam "Ghandi" Ze'evi.

Now it happens that I disagreed for many reasons with Ghandi's idea of transfer. However, to describe that idea as "expulsion of the racially impure from the Holy Land" only serves to indicate a fairly high degree of ignorance on the part of Richard Smith about what Ghandi actually advocated. [...] 6141 55 23_Re: HABONET digest 20490_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:56:38 EST344_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/5/01 4:33:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, habesor@netvision.net.il writes:



> However, to describe that idea as "expulsion of the racially impure from > the Holy Land" only serves to indicate a fairly high degree of ignorance on > the part of Richard Smith about what Ghandi actually advocated. > [...] 6197 263 22_Re: the evil settlers.7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 06 Nov 2001 01:20:12 +0200547_iso-8859-1 sam, what you are doing and saying is very ugly. I am not a liar and have never lied in anything I have ever written in Habonet. I am not a fantisizer. I live in the real world. You are making generalizations about an entire population based on the acts of a very few people. You are so obsessed with the "settlers" that you do not see them as fellow Jews, people with high moral and ethical standards, who live normal lives like the rest of us. They are living an ideal, foreswearing material comfort and personal safety to build [...] 6461 73 5_?????12_Karen Fisher23_pkfisher19@peoplepc.com30_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:50:52 -0500336_iso-8859-1 And now if we all agree to disagree? I have been recieving posts, but do to a technical problem that is now cleared up, I could not send in my plea for "enough already." Some of you I know from what seems as long ago, and some just from this, However I have found myself reading every word and follwoing the best I can. [...] 6535 32 12_Re: "Denial"0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:09:00 EST571_US-ASCII I am always surprised when people analyze other people psychologically "from a distance"--and it seems to happen so often here on Habonet...I tried to stay out of this one- but I can not. If one is talking about "denial"- how about denying the fact that the "Palestinian in the street" wants us dead and gone. Educated from the time they are babies to hate and destroy us and to put little value on thier own lives, Palestinians have really never gotten rid of the edict that they want israel into the sea along with all Israelis, Jews, and now "Americans" [...] 6568 29 12_Re: "Denial"0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:38:19 EST133_US-ASCII Even if what you say is correct, though I join your hope that it isn't, it does not justify the settlements or the settlers. 6598 120 9_Re: ?????29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net30_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 18:35:02 -0500300_iso-8859-1 karen - are you aware of the "half the sky" organization? they have a website that should be fairly easy to find, and they are a group that promotes adoption of chinese girls as well as providing support, or so it seems, for families that have done so. maybe you can find help there. [...] 6719 155 9_Re: ?????12_Karen Fisher23_pkfisher19@peoplepc.com30_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:42:48 -0500536_iso-8859-1 Esther, No, that is new to me. I will check it out. Thanks,

Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 6:35 PM Subject: Re: ?????



karen - are you aware of the "half the sky" organization? they have a website that should be fairly easy to find, and they are a group that promotes adoption of chinese girls as well as providing support, or so it seems, for families that have done so. maybe you can find help there. [...] 6875 225 9_Re: ?????20_Gayle, Mark and Ayah16_sarazen@home.com30_Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:51:55 -0500555_iso-8859-1 Karen, I also recommend the book "The Bamboo Cradle" if you haven't read it. It is about a secular Jewish couple who adopted an abandoned Chinese girl while they were on sabbatical in China. To make a long story short, they became Ba'alei Tshuva in the process of converting their daughter, and like a lot of couples who adopt, ended up bearing a myriad of their own children! My sister lives in Tzfat, and knows the family.. the young girl is now a grown woman, married and by now with children of her own. It is an interesting read, and [...] 7101 82 41_Re: irrelevant to the discussion of peace0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 02:30:41 EST376_US-ASCII Chevre, Shalom

I hate to add to a spate of multi-post days. But I just have to "vote" for Ephraim's view of reality right now.

Israel is at war. War is a form of social and economic depression. Our 100 year war is a 100 year social and economic depression. That is why Israel wants to be not at war. True Hagshama is strictly a postwar phenomenon. [...] 7184 29 9_Re: ?????0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 03:04:17 EST515_US-ASCII Dear Karen and others with adopted multiracial children,

Contact and become part of the Jewish Multiracial Network - their administrator is an Asian Jew-by-choice named Linda Jum (you can use my name with her) - and they will probably be sending New York members to Na'aleh this coming year - they have been looking for a camp that is Jewish and multiracial friendly. Linda can be reached during the day at (212)924-3131 or surf the web and see if the Jewish Multiracial Network has a website. [...] 7214 41 17_The Bamboo Cradle7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:51:45 +0200229_iso-8859-1 the book The Bamboo Cradle is JUST what you are looking for. If you do not manage to get it please let me know and I shall try to get it for you. I have bought at least 10 copies and given them all away as gifts. pearl 7256 295 5_Pearl15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il30_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:09:34 +0200425_windows-1255 Today’s HABONET seems to be mostly about Pearl Skolnik – for PS, about PS, against PS and by PS. How tiresome! If this keeps up, I’ll quit and communicate with people I’m interested in privately.

As a scientist (retired) I first thought to make a statistical study of how much space is taken up by communications relating to this lady on HABONET through the years, but then thought the better of it. [...] 7552 56 12_Re: "Denial"0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:31:27 EST587_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/5/01 8:14:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, LiberHawke@aol.com writes:



> THESE PEOPLE WANT YOU AND ME AND OUR > CHILDREN AND ANYONE ELSE WHO IS JEWISH AND AMERICAN OR ISRAELI > DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP DENYING THIS--AND MAYBE WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND THIS > AND > ACCEPT IT, YOU WILL SEE WHY THIS PROBLEM WON'T BE FIXED BY MOVING ACROSS > THE > STREET OR ACROSS THE LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Pearl's posting of Arafat's history > > was such proof that this man and this generation are too far gone...Let's > pray I am wrong- but my gut says otherwise...sue > > 7609 304 16_RE: (no subject)11_Jamie Levin22_mazkir@habonimdror.org30_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:23:55 -0500556_iso-8859-1 Kol HaKavod Sam. The past few emails made me think that I had somehow been subscribed to the Betar listserve.

Aleh V'Hagshem,

Jamie Levin Mazkir Tnua Habonim Dror North America

(p) 212-255-1796 (f) 212-929-3459 www.habonimdror.org 114 West 26th ST. #1004 New York, N.Y. 10001 U.S.A. -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message----- From: Smfgrappa@aol.com [mailto:Smfgrappa@aol.com] Sent: Mon, November 05, 2001 7:40 AM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: (no subject) [...] 7914 360 14_clarification.11_Jamie Levin22_mazkir@habonimdror.org30_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:42:28 -0500373_iso-8859-1 After some thought I thought I should expand on my last email. By offering a "Kol HaKavod" I do not mean to promote the stifling of views or personal attacks. I simply wish to express my discomfort at the political views often expressed over Habonet. I recognize that my discomfort is necessary if we are to achieve any meaningful dialogue. Aleh V'Hagshem, [...] 8275 45 36_dismantling settlements - Gaza first13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:23:14 -0500581_Windows-1252 >From a peace report somewhere on the internet. The details of what is reported below can be ascertained through other sources, as this ongoing multi-front political and diplomatic initiative is just starting to gain momentum. Let's strengthen old Shimon Peres' hands [may God not let what happened to Rabin happen to him, and may God keep his health strong for many more years to come], and let's not let the momentum die down, until the day we can finally get to Elon Moreh, to Beit El, and to Pisgat Zeev [don't worry about any bogrei Habonim that may have to [...] 8321 52 41_Re: irrelevant to the discussion of peace0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 12:10:56 EST559_US-ASCII Chaver Steve, Two brief points. 1. those hundreds of thousands of Palestinian workers were a) grateful for the work and the wages and b) were treated as second class and came to resent that more than they appreciated the $. Anyone with a shit job can appreciate that a day comes when the $ don't make it worth the trouble any more. 2. The economic benefits to be derived by arabs in an open economy are exactly why this battle goes on. The leadership elite in each of the arab countries incl. Palestine, follow the prime dictate of politics: If [...] 8374 44 40_Re: dismantling settlements - Gaza first0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 17:27:02 EST354_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/6/01 11:26:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, warshais@tir.com writes:



> [may God not let what > happened to Rabin happen to him, and may God keep his health strong for many > more years to come]

While I guess I agree with the sentiment, does this statement imply that God did want Rabin to be assassinated? 8419 305 9_Re: Pearl7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 07 Nov 2001 01:43:29 +0200377_windows-1255 dispicable.

----- Original Message ----- From: Leo Diesendruck To: HABONET (HABONET) Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 1:09 PM Subject: Pearl



Today’s HABONET seems to be mostly about Pearl Skolnik – for PS, about PS, against PS and by PS. How tiresome! If this keeps up, I’ll quit and communicate with people I’m interested in privately. [...] 8725 102 18_Settlements, Peace0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 20:50:20 EST391_US-ASCII I don't think settlements are effective as trip-wires for an attach on Israel - one element of the original intent (I believe) because they are contant targets of harassing attack and an invasion would be clear long before ground for es reach the settlements.

I think settlements are somewhat effective in some cases in securing smooth defensible borders for the state. [...] 8828 59 24_Re: Removed from reality11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:28:54 -0500489_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:

> Yigal Amir was not a settler, but lived north of Tel Aviv. Dr. Goldstein > was a very respected and beloved doctor even by the Arabs until he did his > horrible deed. He lived in Kiryat Arba. He is one person out of over > 200,000 people living over the Green Line. You can not call a whole > population Jewish chamas because of a very few individuals. The person I > answered wrote a general condemnation of Jews over the Green Line as > chamasniks. [...] 8888 89 40_Re: dismantling settlements - Gaza first13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:19:51 -0800523_iso-8859-1 >While I guess I agree with the sentiment, does this statement imply that God did want Rabin to be assassinated?

Dear Richard,

I guess I have to confess to you that I have no idea whatsoever of what god really wants, or thinks, or plans, or if mere human words such as these can describe what it is or does, or if it at all exists at a level we mere humans can comprehend. I just wish, that whatever it is or does, it does not let such a national tragedy happen to us again. A big part of the [...] 8978 43 24_Re: Removed from reality0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Wed, 7 Nov 2001 00:22:08 EST619_US-ASCII Noam, Arafat didn't make a mistake turning down the settlement. Any settlement that leaves a viable Israel, certain Israeli control overJerusalem, will be unacceptable to the 2.5 genterations of Palestinians that have been carefully taught by us and them to see Israel as a cancer that must be cut out-expunged-from the holy land. Furthermore, there was a clever strategy (because its been effective, by and large) to continue the struggle for world opinion in a post WWII vein as the oppressed /displaced people looking for a fair shake in a world dominated by the economic and political power of Israel [...] 9022 87 24_Re: Removed from reality7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:58:37 +0200548_iso-8859-1 I never said or believed that the shin beth killed Rabin. When I mentioned the rumours going around to my niece and nephew in the shin beth, they laughed and said tell people to not even give it a thought. But it is the Rabin family itself who have said publicly that they are not satisfied with the official reports of Yitzhak Rabin's death, and have many questions concerning it. I am not one to believe in conspiracies for everything that happens, but we have had our share. We have plenty of dirt to hide under the rug. I would [...] 9110 49 24_Re: Removed from reality11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 07 Nov 2001 08:42:45 -0500338_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:

> I never said or believed that the shin beth killed Rabin.

which disproves another recent statement

> I am not a liar and have never lied in anything I have ever written in Habonet. I am not a fantisizer. I live > in the real world.

since the Habonet archives indicate otherwise: [...] 9160 29 30_Re: did arafat make a mistake?11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 07 Nov 2001 09:25:43 -0500646_us-ascii



DLerner569@aol.com wrote:

> Noam, > Arafat didn't make a mistake turning down the settlement. Any settlement that leaves a viable Israel, certain Israeli control overJerusalem, will be unacceptable to the 2.5 genterations of Palestinians that have been carefully taught by us and them to see Israel as a cancer that must be cut out-expunged-from the holy land. Furthermore, there was a clever strategy (because its been effective, by and large) to continue the struggle for world opinion in a post WWII vein as the oppressed /displaced people looking for a fair shake in a world dominated by the economic and [...] 9190 134 17_Red Cross Follies0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:01:43 EST510_US-ASCII Date sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 00:09:59 -0600

Subject: A Tragedy -- Red Cross Double Cross

The Washington Post By Lawrence S. Eagleburger Tuesday, October 30, 2001; The Washington Post. Page A21

Dr. Bernadine Healy's resignation as president of the American Red Cross is a tragedy. This remarkable woman has, in less than two years, forced major reforms on a reluctant governing body and shown superb crisis management skills in the aftermath of the terrible events of Sept. 11. [...] 9325 39 21_Re: Red Cross Follies0_15_Marshlf@aol.com28_Wed, 7 Nov 2001 11:53:12 EST393_US-ASCII While i don't know the "real" story behind this, today's Washington Post carries a response to Eagleburger's piece. It was written by the head of media services of the International Fed. of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies, emphasizing the cooperative work between it and Magen David Adom.

see: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51791-2001Nov6.html

Lisa 9365 44 9_Re: ?????12_Karen Fisher23_pkfisher19@peoplepc.com30_Wed, 7 Nov 2001 15:45:11 -0500618_iso-8859-1 I found their web site! Thanks,

Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2001 3:04 AM Subject: Re: ?????



> Dear Karen and others with adopted multiracial children, > > Contact and become part of the Jewish Multiracial Network - their > administrator is an Asian Jew-by-choice named Linda Jum (you can use my name > with her) - and they will probably be sending New York members to Na'aleh > this coming year - they have been looking for a camp that is Jewish and > multiracial friendly. > Linda can be reached [...] 9410 22 16_Looking for work11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net30_Wed, 7 Nov 2001 13:01:51 -0800462_iso-8859-1 Hi, As a result of the many changes in the tech/internet industries, I have been laid-off and have joined the rank of the unemployed. If any of you out there know of any work in the greater S.F. Bay Area, please contact me directly. I am not tied to the industries I came from and will gladly pursue work in other sectors. Also, if you know of any recruiters, head-hunters, etc. please send their name. Thanks for any help that might come, Batel [...] 9433 34 14_Battle for God0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Wed, 7 Nov 2001 22:37:06 EST234_US-ASCII Anyone familiar with Karen Armstrong Battle for God. Amazing assemblage of dates, facts, and persons from Jews, Christians and Muslims. I think there is an arab apologist bias, but I'm interested in other views.

Dennis 9468 31 18_Re: Battle for God0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Wed, 7 Nov 2001 23:35:47 EST237_US-ASCII I never read her books but have heard her a number of times on Fresh Air on NPR and have always found her very interesting. She has a book called the History of God that also sounds very interesting. I think she use to be a nun. 9500 116 48_Habonim Dancers to Rock Festival for Second Year0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Thu, 8 Nov 2001 00:35:36 EST405_US-ASCII Dear Chevreh,



For those of you who are new to this list, Greater New York area Habonim alumni created a dance

ensemble last year and re-entered the New York Israeli Dance Festival (after a 15 year

absence) on the occasion of the 50th Anniversary. We were welcomed warmly,

we

danced to a contemporary version of Avadim Hayinu and to our old Habonim [...] 9617 141 24_Re: Removed from reality14_Ethan Schwartz24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 08 Nov 2001 08:09:31 +0200607_iso-8859-1 If you think that we have been teaching the Arabs to hate us for only 2.5 generations, you have either not learned or have forgotten the history of our settlement of Eretz Yisrael. I recall learning how the Jews would strike and blockade the businesses of overseas Jewish landowners, such as Rothschild, because they would hire local Arabs who would work better and cheaper then Jewish Histadrut members. This exclusion continued for many, many years. I'm not sure but I think Arabs still have a different membership status in the "labor" Histadrut. The Histadrut, which at one time was the [...] 9759 64 24_Re: Removed from reality7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:21:30 +0200581_iso-8859-1 Noam, I stand by "I never said or believed that the shin beth killed Rabin." The last paragraph below does NOT say I BELIEVE that they killed Rabin. Rumours still circulate relating to this. My quote was taken out of context, and I ask a question, the question that many were asking at the time when the various conspiracy theories were flying. People still ask why someone shouted at the time of the shooting ""s'rak!", i.e., an empty bullet casing. Even if Raviv was involved, he was a rogue -- completely discredited. He does not represent the shin beth. Today, [...] 9824 41 24_Re: Removed from reality11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 08 Nov 2001 08:18:31 -0500333_us-ascii Pearl,

You don't believe the rumors, and never believed them, yet you continue to repeat them.

It is difficult for me to tell when you are repeating rumors and when you are stating things which you "know to be true" because you heard it from that reliable source your brother's barber's doctor's husband. [...] 9866 56 3_FW:11_Jamie Levin22_mazkir@habonimdror.org30_Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:58:08 -0500579_iso-8859-1 If anyone can answer this chavera's questions about music in Zionist Movements she would be very appreciative. Her email address is rkriger@mail.wesleyan.edu.

Aleh V'Hagshem,

Jamie Levin Mazkir Tnua Habonim Dror North America

(p) 212-255-1796 (f) 212-929-3459 www.habonimdror.org 114 West 26th ST. #1004 New York, N.Y. 10001 U.S.A. -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message----- From: Rachel Kriger Sent: Wed, November 07, 2001 7:42 PM To: mazkir@habonimdror.org; ezrox@aol.com Subject: [...] 9923 56 13_Grateful Dawg15_Kaufman, Albert26_Albert.Kaufman@METROKC.GOV30_Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:18:28 -0800290_iso-8859-1 Just a head's up that this film is out. Jerry and David Grisman, playing music, smiling, laughing, history up to the present time. It's pretty lovely little jewel which I'd recommend to any of you who sat around the midurah and sang songs from Old and in the Way...

Albert 9980 32 18_Re: Battle for God0_18_DLerner569@aol.com28_Thu, 8 Nov 2001 15:40:56 EST94_US-ASCII exactly. a nun she was.

I recommend her work. The grasp and scope are awesome. 10013 110 52_Re: Habonim Dancers to Rock Festival for Second Year9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Thu, 08 Nov 2001 20:06:04 -0800554_us-ascii Who schedules a Dance Festival on St. Patrick's Day. Don't you people have any respect for drunks???

SC523@aol.com wrote:

> Dear Chevreh, > > For those of you who are new to this list, Greater New York area Habonim > alumni created a dance > > ensemble last year and re-entered the New York Israeli Dance Festival (after > a 15 year > > absence) on the occasion of the 50th Anniversary. We were welcomed warmly, > > we > > danced to a contemporary version of Avadim Hayinu and to our old Habonim > > favorite (first time ever [...] 10124 43 23_Re: HABONET digest 204314_Tana Hemingway16_tanah@zianet.com31_Fri, 09 Nov 2001 03:58:18 -0700305_us-ascii Yes, I vote for them to be reissued...and am posting my vote to the list so others can climb on board. I well-remember David Breslau from his time in NYC. I do not know if he was officially a sheliach or something more, officially, but he was always a leader. Tanah Queens Habonim, '44-'48+ [...] 10168 28 30_Habonim book "Arise and Build"0_15_RONOREN@aol.com28_Fri, 9 Nov 2001 13:41:10 EST489_US-ASCII Taking a survey here. More than a few chevre remember stacks of the Habonim book "Arise and Build" languishing at several different camps, occasionally sold/given away on Parent's day. Do ANY of the camp committee members know of any "new" old stock of this book?

In our information-gathering about the possibility of reprinting, we would, of course, love to come across one in mint condition. Though we have some hard covers and soft covers, none are in great shape. [...] 10197 56 27_Re: äòáøä: a few one liners0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Fri, 9 Nov 2001 18:35:38 EST368_US-ASCII And my favorite, on Crest toothpaste: If swallowed, immediately contact poison control center.

I'm pretty sure a few of the sillier-sounding warnings making the rounds have been created for effect -- although you never can tell; no one ever got poor overestimating corporate fear of lawsuits -- but I can vouch for the potential dangers of Crest: [...] 10254 46 34_RE: Habonim book "Arise and Build"12_Dave Edelman21_docdave@optonline.net31_Fri, 09 Nov 2001 20:24:39 -0500481_US-ASCII I am happy to say that I have a copy and have scanned and OCR'd it. I will be putting it up on my web site, initially without photographs, for "Friendly Reader" review.

As soon as it is up I'll post something here.

Dave

-----Original Message----- From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On Behalf Of RONOREN@aol.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 1:41 PM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Habonim book "Arise and Build" [...] 10301 92 41_Make like a tourist and spend $ in Israel0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:02:14 EST412_US-ASCII Chevre, shalom

While I cannot vouch for every vendor listed here, it seemed like a good enough idea to pass along to my Labor Zionist chevre. If this sort of marketing works, it would seem like an excellent Israel economic development project for our Workshoppers - find worthy Israeli artists, artisans and craftspeople and get them onto a website for sales to the worldwide Jewish market. [...] 10394 411 23_Re: HABONET digest 205417_yoninamatz lamdan20_yoninamatz@yahoo.com37_Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:26:25 -0800 (PST)563_us-ascii Shalom to Habonim Dror Alumni via Habonet! I had been expecting a memoriam piece about David Breslau, "za"l" and when I didn't find more than a few words, tried to express my own in a spontaneous letter, which, for some strange reason did not go through.... My first inkling that Dave was reaching the end of his long life was when Danny Mann visited and told us that Dave was in "a facility". Then, when the AACI Senior Spectator news-magazine arrived a few days ago, I learned that he had died....... Dave Breslau was much more than a madrich and [...] 10806 21 29_Shloshim for Dave Breslau z'l14_The Bernhardts24_miriam_b@neve-ilan.co.il31_Sat, 10 Nov 2001 17:27:18 +0200307_us-ascii For those of you in Israel: In the AACI bulletin there is an announcement of the Shloshim for Dave on Thursday, Dec.6 at 19:30 at the Mevakshei Derech Synagogue (Reconstructionist) in Jerusalem. It is sponsored by AACI and Mevakshei Derech - he was a founder of both of them. Miriam Bernhardt [...] 10828 144 12_(no subject)0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:07:00 EST574_US-ASCII







Background / Israel marks six years since Rabin's assassination

By Bradley Burston, Ha'aretz Correspondent







As the Jewish state marked six years since one of its sons gunned down one of its founding fathers, Israelis paused Monday to consider how the peace process might have differed had Yitzhak Rabin lived.

Official commemoration ceremonies of the November 4, 1995 murder at a Tel Aviv peace rally were held Monday, the anniversary of the killing according to the Hebrew calendar. [...] 10973 38 16_Re: (no subject)13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Sun, 11 Nov 2001 11:59:18 -0500 (EST)567_us-ascii

--- Smfgrappa@aol.com wrote:

Greetings!

Is Smfgrappa Sam Flesher, by chance? Hi Sam, if that's you.

Thanks for the article. To the Jewish world in which I circulate, in Montreal, the assissination is, unfortunately, very distant, it seems to me. I hope I'm wrong.

Tragically, there is also a politics of death. To me the idea that all hell would have broken loose had a Palestinian assassinated Rabin is yet another excellent idea for why we should see to it that there will soon be an independent Palestinian state. [...] 11012 34 64_=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20=E4=F2=E1=F8=E4:=20a=20few=20one=20liners?=0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Sun, 11 Nov 2001 14:55:41 EST221_US-ASCII Those of with kids know the toothpaste warnings are no joke----some kids tend to eat toothpaste while brushing their teeth, and it doesn't take much for a 30 or 40 pound toddler to "OD" on toothpaste.

lisa 11047 55 16_Chinese adoptees10_Jon Zatkin26_jzatkin@public2.bta.net.cn31_Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:26:03 +0800462_iso-8859-1 Dear Karen,

This Jon Zatkin in Beijing. You should know about this organization: www.ocdf.org/ocdf.html

Our Chinese Daughters Foundation is run by an old friend of mine here named Jane Liedtke (and adopter herself). She also runs a summer program, bringing families here to help the kids connect with their roots. www.ocdf.org/camp.html

Among other points of interest for the families is my bilingual school here in Beijing. [...] 11103 147 9_bin Laden16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 12 Nov 2001 07:57:40 -0500636_us-ascii





The Sunday Telegraph (UK) claims today that it is in possession of a video tape in which Osama bin Laden admits to having directed the attacks on the WTC on September 11th. The tape, to which the Telegraph claims it gained access in the Middle East, was reportedly shot somewhere in the Afghan mountains in late October, and was purportedly produced as a propaganda piece to whip up support for Al-Qaeda. Although the Telegraph reports that the tape is a smoking gun, nowhere does the article directly quote bin Laden actually claiming personal responsibility for the September 11 attacks; rather, [...] 11251 422 69_=?ISO-8859-1?B?5PLh+OQ6IEEgdmlnaWwgaW4gTllDLS1RdWl0ZSBiZWF1dGlmdWw=?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 12 Nov 2001 19:59:53 +0200558_ISO-8859-1

Hi,

We, as Jews, can grouch, complain and find numerous faults with being Jews and all it entails, but, the following material just renews my being proud of being a Jew.

Mollie



----- Original Message ----- From: Pnina Some To: Schwager Sema ; Dena Satinoff ; Joe Ida Schwarcz ; Mollie Eric Marx ; Helen & Lionel Koven ; Issie Oiring ; Murray Moishe Oiring ; Malca Hubner ; Julie Maury Tretakoff ; Bucket Bernard Herman Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2001 10:42 PM Subject: Fw: A vigil in NYC--Quite beautiful [...] 11674 32 8_Marriage0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:20:05 EST334_US-ASCII I have a question for our Israeli chevra, or non-Israeli chevra who have a keen knowledge of Israeli law. In a discussion with a young Israeli woman the question of civil marriage came up. She said they were allowed in Israel and I always thought they were not. Can a person get married in a non-religious ceremony in Israel? 11707 204 42_Fwd: This is REAL -- please read & respond0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:44:31 EST144_US-ASCII For those of you who are interested in energy and conservation issues, this comes from the mom of an active Habonim maapila.

ACC 11912 58 12_Re: Marriage0_18_Brianscoop@aol.com29_Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:18:47 EST441_US-ASCII A person can ... but it will not be recognized by the State. :-)

--brian

> I have a question for our Israeli chevra, or non-Israeli chevra who have a > keen knowledge of Israeli law. In a discussion with a young Israeli woman > the question of civil marriage came up. She said they were allowed in > Israel and I always thought they were not. Can a person get married in a > non-religious ceremony in Israel? > > [...] 11971 78 12_Re: Marriage13_moshe sheskin24_moshes7@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 12 Nov 2001 22:47:33 -0500614_us-ascii

There is no civil marriage in Israel. As far as the Rabbinate is concerned and the ministry of the interior, such marriages are not recognized and will not be registered accordingly. Marriages outside the country are governed by international law and will be recognized.



At 09:18 PM 11/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: >A person can ... but it will not be recognized by the State. :-) > >--brian > >>I have a question for our Israeli chevra, or non-Israeli chevra who have >>a keen knowledge of Israeli law. In a discussion with a young Israeli >>woman the question of civil marriage [...] 12050 34 12_Re: Marriage15_Nechemia Meyers32_rrmeyers@wisemail.weizmann.ac.il31_Tue, 13 Nov 2001 08:48:53 +0200627_US-ASCII Chevre, Our youngest son got married in Cyprus and then had a hupa here in Israel presided over by a Conservative rabbi. The latter was not accepted as legal by Israeli officialdom. He and his wife wanted a traditional Jewish marriage ceremony, but being antagonistic to the Orthodox rabbinate saw no alternative to being married twice. Hundreds of other young Israelis do the same thing. This is quite apart from the many Russian immigrants who get married overseas because, for Halachic reasons they can't be married in Israel. Nechemia Meyers >>> Richardrdsmith@aol.com 11/13/01 03:20 AM >>> I have a question [...] 12085 88 22_VOCOLOT IN LOS ANGELES21_Tsippi (Frances) Rudy19_tsippi@mediaone.net31_Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:14:25 -0800409_us-ascii Dear Friends,

Unless I'm mistaken, Vocolot is (are?) performing in Southern California at the Skirball Cultural Center, 2701 N. Sepulveda Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90049.

From the Skirball web site:

Vocolot Thursday, November 15, 8:00 p.m., Magnin Auditorium $21 General / $18 Members / $15 Students ADVANCE TICKETS RECOMMENDED: (323) 655-8587

Hope to see chevre there! [...] 12174 72 12_Re: Marriage7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:52:13 +0200593_iso-8859-1 there are lawyers who perform civil marriages. Shulamith Aloni used to do it I believe. Common-law marriages are recognized in Israel also. The yadua batzibur is recognized and both can inherit the deceased partner, even if there is a wife involved who was not divorced from the husband who is living with his y'duah batzibur. Depends if they were recognized as a couple and how long they were living together. There was even a case where a soldier was killed, his girlfriend was pregnant and the rabbis married her to him after his death. Everything is possible here! We live [...] 12247 641 99_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiDk8uH45DogQSB2aWdpbCBpbiBOWUMtLVF1aXRlIGJlYXV0?= =?iso-8859-1?B?aWZ1bA==?=8_ericmoli25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:15:30 +0200489_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: ericmoli To: gail carp ; esther siegel ; mayim@aol.com ; paul harris ; paul garfield ; paula felberg ; HOSHANA3@aol.com ; habonet@shamash.org Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 7:59 PM Subject: äòáøä: A vigil in NYC--Quite beautiful





Hi,

We, as Jews, can grouch, complain and find numerous faults with being Jews and all it entails, but, the following material just renews my being proud of being a Jew. [...] 12889 1114 52_FW: Call for an Israeli/Palestinian Peace Settlement15_Kaufman, Albert26_Albert.Kaufman@METROKC.GOV31_Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:35:28 -0800514_iso-8859-1 Thought this would interest Habonetters. Coming into London from over the pole, flying in a big airliner (flying into Newark from Seattle on Saturday...............) Albert



Subject: Call for an Israeli/Palestinian Peace Settlement



"It was the best of times; it was the worst of times."

As bombs are being dropped and deaths perpetrated daily, we see that it's the worst of times. Is it possible that any good can emerge from this time of heightenend intensity? [...] 14004 131 26_Re: VOCOLOT IN LOS ANGELES16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@mindspring.com31_Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:19:54 -0700570_us-ascii thanks- Tsippi!!!!!!!!- hope to see you all there. (Also I am teaching out at Brandeis Bardin earlier that day )- Linda

"Tsippi (Frances) Rudy" wrote:

> Dear Friends, > > Unless I'm mistaken, Vocolot is (are?) performing in Southern > California at the Skirball Cultural Center, 2701 N. Sepulveda Blvd., > Los Angeles, CA 90049. > > From the Skirball web site: > > Vocolot > Thursday, November 15, 8:00 p.m., Magnin Auditorium > $21 General / $18 Members / $15 Students ADVANCE TICKETS RECOMMENDED: (323) 655-8587 > Hope to see chevre there! [...] 14136 22 15_Yentl's Revenge9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Tue, 13 Nov 2001 23:05:40 -0800331_us-ascii I came across this compilation of essays in a bookstore. One essay is entitled "I was a Teenage Zionist" by Ellen Friedrichs. She discusses her experience at a Habonim Camp ( I assume it was Tavor) and Workshop (she doesn't name the kibbutz). I thought it was interesting so I thought I would pass this tidbit along. [...] 14159 19 19_Re: Yentl's Revenge0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Wed, 14 Nov 2001 02:31:17 EST442_US-ASCII Nothing came with this, Norm. If you just cut and paste it into your email, that should work.

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14179 54 19_Re: Yentl's Revenge13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:47:49 -0800 (PST)625_us-ascii Norm,

What is the name of the compilation of essays in which

"...Teenage Zionist" appears?

Thanks.

Aubrey --- Norm Kane wrote: > I came across this compilation of essays in a > bookstore. One essay is > entitled "I was a Teenage Zionist" by Ellen > Friedrichs. She discusses > her experience at a Habonim Camp ( I assume it was > Tavor) and Workshop > (she doesn't name the kibbutz). I thought it was > interesting so I > thought I would pass this tidbit along. > > Norm Kane > > ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org > -----------------------+ > Hosted [...] 14234 46 19_RE: Yentl's Revenge11_Jamie Levin22_mazkir@habonimdror.org31_Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:15:58 -0500517_iso-8859-1 Ellen went to Machaneh Miriam and attended Workshop (43) on Kibbutz Urim.

Aleh V'Hagshem,

Jamie Levin Mazkir Tnua Habonim Dror North America

(p) 212-255-1796 (f) 212-929-3459 www.habonimdror.org 114 West 26th ST. #1004 New York, N.Y. 10001 U.S.A. -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message----- From: Norm Kane [mailto:normk@earthlink.net] Sent: Wed, November 14, 2001 2:06 AM To: habonet@shamash.org Subject: Yentl's Revenge [...] 14281 45 19_Re: Yentl's Revenge14_Jessica Silver26_foundation@habonimdror.org31_Thu, 15 Nov 2001 11:34:01 -0500492_iso-8859-1 Norm, Deb, Aubrey and everyone else,

Ellen Friedrichs was a member of Workshop 43 on Kibbutz Urim, and attended machaneh Miriam. Ellen also worked for two summers at Gilboa, and was the merkezet tochniot at the central office from 1998-2000. Yentl's Revenge, an anthology of young Jewish feminist's writings, is available in numerous bookstores and is published by Seal Press. Those in the New York area should keep their eyes open for the book readings in the Spring. [...] 14327 32 30_Re: Concerning Yentl's Revenge9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:36:47 -0800401_us-ascii I didn't attach anything because I didn't buy the book. Ellen's essay was the only one that piqued my interest. Yentl's Revenge is a collection of essays that I saw in Brentano's and read her essay during lunch.

She does raise an intersting point about Habonim clinging to an idea of kibbutz that is largely passe. I think it should be a topic for discussion within the movement. [...] 14360 37 34_Re: Habonim book "Arise and Build"14_Tana Hemingway16_tanah@zianet.com31_Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:45:58 -0700603_us-ascii Somewhere I have an old copy in good shape, but not accessible now. I'd be interested in getting another when you reprint. Please put me on the list of those who will want it. Thanks Thanks, Tanah

At 01:41 PM 11/9/01 -0500, you wrote: >Taking a survey here. More than a few chevre remember stacks of the Habonim >book "Arise and Build" languishing at several different camps, occasionally >sold/given away on Parent's day. Do ANY of the camp committee members know of >any "new" old stock of this book? > >In our information-gathering about the possibility of reprinting, we would, [...] 14398 34 12_(no subject)0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:20:18 EST234_US-ASCII Would it be possible to construct a dedicated pathway from the territories to the dome of the rock? It would have to be a football field or two wide. Perhaps an elevated walkway tree lined with tunnnels beneath.

Dennis 14433 36 12_(no subject)0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:27:40 EST315_US-ASCII What's the attraction to anybody of Gaza? Does it make any sense at all to have a bifurcated country? Is it the sea coast? Tradition? Is there a reasonable trade opportunity? It doesn't seem as though any solution that involves two parts separated by another country constitutes a long term solution. [...] 14470 36 12_(no subject)0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:34:05 EST334_US-ASCII I didn't hear anything in the way of a position shift in Arafat's speech at the UN. I'm thinking this is a good time to put forward a balanced/fair proposal on a unilateral basis (one we can live with) (one that makes sense) and let world pressure push Arafat to either accept or expose his true intent. [I sound naive] [...] 14507 51 85_NYTimes.com Article: Exploring the Flaws in the Notion of the 'Root Causes' of Terror0_22_amriv@netvision.net.il37_Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:33:07 -0800 (PST)507_- This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by amriv@netvision.net.il.



Haverim/ot This is a worth-while think piece on misguided "root-causes" for terror.

Amnon

amriv@netvision.net.il



Exploring the Flaws in the Notion of the 'Root Causes' of Terror

November 17, 2001

By EDWARD ROTHSTEIN



It is worth thinking about just what premises about terrorism and fundamentalism lie behind these arguments about their root causes. [...] 14559 40 40_Arise and Build book in "mint" condition7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 18 Nov 2001 00:27:27 +0200191_windows-1255 In response to the request for a copy of Arise and Build in excellent condition, I have one here in Jerusalem. Whoever requires it for reprinting purposes may have my copy. pearl 14600 29 16_Re: (no subject)13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:33:55 -0800 (PST)698_us-ascii Dennis,

I like your pathway idea,but I don't think anyone else will. Anyway, the Arabs would throw rocks and bombs from it, just as they throw rocks from above down onto worshippers at the Wall. Best, Aubrey



__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14630 34 11_Re: pathway11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:14:48 -0500337_us-ascii aubrey jasper wrote:

> Dennis, > > I like your pathway idea,but I don't think anyone else > will. Anyway, the Arabs would throw rocks and bombs > from it, just as they throw rocks from above down onto > worshippers at the Wall. > Best, > Aubrey

Hi Aubrey,

I'm confused (what else is new he asked? :-). [...] 14665 69 38_connecting bridge bet. Aza and Shomron7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 18 Nov 2001 11:25:47 +0200565_windows-1255 Re the recent letters about subject there actually are plans abrew, although I do not know if they are already approved, to have an elevated bridge over Israel to connect Aza and the "West Bank" territories. I am not thrilled with the idea, because it would be a real security problem. The best idea probably would be a sealed train that leaves either part of the Palestinian authority and which can not be opened until they arrive at their destination. That would also open up a huge can of worms in that smuggling of arms and army could be done [...] 14735 37 11_Re: pathway13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:50:45 -0800 (PST)381_us-ascii Noam,

My lack of clarity is glaring, to me, in retrospect.

What I really meant to say: I like the idea of the Arab Palestinians being able to come and go without interacting adversely with Israelis. However, I don't see a feasible method for accomplishing this, as the Arab Palestinians have a marked tendency to use any opportunity to attack Israelis. [...] 14773 42 11_Re: pathway14_Ethan Schwartz24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:18:36 +0200567_iso-8859-1 :-0 How can you make such a racist statement!! :-0

----- Original Message ----- > Noam, > > My lack of clarity is glaring, to me, in retrospect. > > What I really meant to say: > I like the idea of the Arab Palestinians being able to > come and go without interacting adversely with > Israelis. > However, I don't see a feasible method for > accomplishing this, as the Arab Palestinians have a > marked tendency to use any opportunity to attack > Israelis. > > Best, > > Aubrey > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You [...] 14816 25 11_Sasi Miller11_Lon Ephraim14_cbma@erols.com31_Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:20:09 -0800384_us-ascii Chevre,

I have just heard the sad news from Mala (Schmidt) Falkoff that Sasi Miller, our madricha at the first workshop at Yotvata in '70, died this morning after a 2 year battle with cancer. She was a madricha in every good sense - loving us, educating us, setting a great example for us, and handling our problems discreetly and fairly. I will really miss her. [...] 14842 319 16_Issues for peace0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:09:36 EST488_UTF-8 We talk about peace. There is renewed interest in achieving it, now. But what are the real issues? How can they be resolved? What do each of the parties want? What is in the ‘must have' column? Here are my thoughts. This year, and every year, there is so much to give thanks for. Here's hoping that wherever you are and whatever your circumstance you are overcome with awe at what we have and the opportunities each moment of life presents us with. My best to you and yours. [...] 15162 56 15_Re: Sasi Miller0_14_Eser53@aol.com29_Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:48:11 EST542_US-ASCII This is very sad news. Sasi was also the madricha of workshop '71 at Yotvata. She was a great person, said so well by Shelly.

Sue Levin Nissan



Shelly wrote: I have just heard the sad news from Mala (Schmidt) Falkoff that Sasi Miller, our madricha at the first workshop at Yotvata in '70, died this morning after a 2 year battle with cancer. She was a madricha in every good sense - loving us, educating us, setting a great example for us, and handling our problems discreetly and fairly. I will really miss her. 15219 455 25_Re: Issues for peace: #127_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:25:45 +0200606_UTF-8 #12 for Dennis's plan: instead of contributing to the PLO/Palestine Authority millions of dollars which are used to buy arms, I would suggest that the EU and others donate money DIRECTLY to various projects which would build up the Palestinian economy: factories, homes, businesses, so that people will have where to make a living. Hopefully, people who are earning a living will not have time to run around shooting at people. There is much bitterness in Arab society because they know that the millions contributed by foreigners to the PA have found their way to the Jerico Casino, Swiss bank [...] 15675 40 20_Re: Issues for peace12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:13:39 +0200620_us-ascii



Dennis, Thank you, thank you for your last posting. I didn't find it at all rambling. On the contrary, in my reading I found it highly analytical, informed and focused - not throwing off debating points but progressing seriously toward a comprehensive aggregate. I really enjoyed your presentation of all the first eleven points. As to the twelfth "We need an issue 12 for the sake of symmetry. Any ideas." I would nominate Trei-assar, the collection of Minor Prophets that come up to bat after the heavy hitters, Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel. The twelve minors include some of my favorite [...] 15716 32 20_Re: Issues for peace0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:36:31 EST98_US-ASCII Amnon, I can't think of anything more rewarding than a kind word from you. Thanks, Dennis 15749 56 20_Re: Issues for peace13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:40:36 -0500593_iso-8859-1 While I think I pretty much agree with most of Dennis Lerner's points as far as I can plainly understand them, I also want to repeat and to stress three of them as exceedingly important (and interrelated), in my view:

>Issue 3. The settlements. I'm sure we talk about maintaining some for >security purposes, whatever that means. Then we move to disassembling >them, and finally we just leave them and their value is credited as >reparations for something or other. If we've been smart we've built them >so they are not strategically positioned to attack Israel proper. [...] 15806 40 20_Re: Issues for peace0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:32:15 EST496_US-ASCII Yuval, Thank you for your comments. On the "right of return" if the world worked as it should the west bank would go back to Jordan and Gaza to Egypt and all of the DPs with them. But that is not how the world works. There are people living in no man's land, manipulated by their countrymen and fellow arabs, but they need a place to live free lives just the same. They need citizenship and dollars will not substitute. I have genetic memory of being stateless. Its not good. Best Dennis 15847 22 20_Re: Issues for peace0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:13:33 EST528_US-ASCII Just when I was getting around to expressing how I felt about our expressing our "peace plans" ( basically- that it is presumptuous, snide, and uselss- since we are here in the US- and have no political power in ISrael- so sometimes I think that whatever we think is of no importance)....here comes Amnon with an arrow that shoots into the brain and ruins everything!...I now disagree with myself ( can I be schizophrenic) and am learning to appreciate the exchange of ideas---even if they amount to nothing...Sue [...] 15870 46 20_Re: Issues for peace0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:20:12 EST569_US-ASCII Suzie, I do and don't agree with you.

Because we are here, because our lives are not so intensely effected by the sturm & drang of daily life there, because we can sometime bring ourselves to the rational, it seems to me that we are reasonably positioned to test various concepts of things, see how they work, where the holes are, even where ourtiny segment of public opinion lies, and that in the process we can glimpse anavenuethat might actually lead to peace, and not just the Jewish liberal illusion of it. If we found such a path, tree lined [...] 15917 136 29_Palestinian media news report7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 23 Nov 2001 00:49:22 +0200628_iso-8859-1

> > ***SPECIAL REPORT: Anti-Semitism in the Palestinian Media > An Interview with Itamar Marcus, Director of the Palestinian Media Watch > research institute > > INTRODUCTION: > Following the broadcast of an anti-Semitic program on Abu Dhabi TV this > week, three Israeli radio talk shows interviewed PMW director Itamar Marcus > on Monday, Nov. 19. The following is the translation of one of those > interviews, distributed by PMW, which discusses the use of blood imagery in > the Palestinian media. > > Israel Radio "Round Table" > Question: Mr. Marcus, [referring to the anti-Semitic satire of Ariel [...] 16054 32 33_Re: Palestinian media news report0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:01:18 EST344_US-ASCII While the interview you have presented here certainly includes some disturbing descriptions of Palestinian programs, none of what was described could be termed anti-Semitic, which is how you introduced it. The programs described are certainly anti-Israel, and indeed, anti-American, but anti-Israel is not synonymous with anti-Semitic. 16087 41 4_ISMs0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:03:55 EST318_US-ASCII Some time back we came up with a definition of "Ism" which somehow seems well suited to the times, and so I share it with you.

...ISM is the pain and embarrassment we feel when a person who is not a member of our group describes us or our group as having characteristics they don't share with us. [...] 16129 41 9_wondering12_Stan Goldman17_stan@zahav.net.il31_Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:13:35 +020076_windows-1255 I am beginning to wonder if anti-israel is not anti-semetic???? 16171 70 8_Re: ISMs13_Shloime Perel21_itsmeshloime@yahoo.ca37_Sat, 24 Nov 2001 11:45:41 -0500 (EST)472_us-ascii Hi Dennis,

Thanks for your insightful definition is "...ism" which I partly agree with right off, in a superficial way, but I'll need to think about it.

But talking about Thanksgiving: one group, which not only feels pain on Thanksgiving, but is literally killed by the millions is the Turkey Family. It's tragic that in order to celebrate, some members of our species feel the need to have a certain type of bird killed in a very massive way. [...] 16242 159 33_Fw: Palestinian media news report7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:27:54 +0200560_iso-8859-1

> > > > > ***SPECIAL REPORT: Anti-Semitism in the Palestinian Media > > An Interview with Itamar Marcus, Director of the Palestinian Media Watch > > research institute > > > > INTRODUCTION: > > Following the broadcast of an anti-Semitic program on Abu Dhabi TV this > > week, three Israeli radio talk shows interviewed PMW director Itamar > Marcus > > on Monday, Nov. 19. The following is the translation of one of those > > interviews, distributed by PMW, which discusses the use of blood imagery > in > > the Palestinian media. > > > [...] 16402 57 24_palestinian media report7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:42:43 +0200580_windows-1255 Richard, I do not know if you saw the program, but there was a caricature of a Jew with paot, which could definitely be interpreted as anti-semitic. Today, it seems clear that since anti-semitism is "out," not politically correct, that anti-Israel takes its place and often covers for being anti-Jewish. Blood libels are anti-Jewish historically. I even recall one in my village, Alabama, New York, when I was a child. We were the only Jews in the village and a baby died a day after its birth. A delegation of the village's children came to our farm -- only to [...] 16460 40 5_Media2_BG26_103640.2135@compuserve.com31_Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:51:53 -0500596_us-ascii

What I find amazing is this sort of Palestinian incitement never get talked about in the America media. If these kinds of images ever appeared on Israeli TV with the roles reversed it would be blasted around the world. There is a double standard.

Nearly every day in the Boston Globe, next to an article on the Middle East, is a picture of some image of Israeli military force next to Palestinian civilians. The subtext is always that Israel is a police state and always brutally hurting Palestinians. The context or history is never expanded upon. The other side of [...] 16501 82 12_(no subject)0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:01:36 EST598_US-ASCII An Alternate Reality By PAUL KRUGMAN



Most Americans get their news from TV. And what they see is heartwarming - a picture of a nation behaving well in a time of crisis. Indeed, the vast majority of Americans have been both resolute and generous. But that's not the whole story, and the images TV doesn't show are anything but heartwarming. A full picture would show politicians and businessmen behaving badly, with this bad behavior made possible - and made worse - by the fact that these days selfishness comes tightly wrapped in the flag. If you pay attention to the [...] 16584 63 9_Re: Media7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:13:07 +0200522_iso-8859-1 Gary, I once sent such a picture and I was practically blasted off Habonet. I am sure it must still be in the archives. It was a picture of the dead Pass baby. Normally, in Israel such pictures do not appear. Too often we know the victims and their families and it is just not done -- we couldn't live with the pictures. It would be considered chilul ha-met, a desecration of the dead, to show their dead bodies. What we do see in the media is bad enough -- the chareidim picking up the body pieces. pearl [...] 16648 80 9_Re: Media0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:36:21 EST575_US-ASCII you raise just the point I have been fretting over, not the bias of the media (they traditionally favor underdogs in matters that don't affect them directly) but the crap poor job the Jewish controlled media, and the zionist conspiracy is doing at getting a resonably factual and balanced set of facts out there. We are losing the battle for the hearts and minds on a daily basis. Settlement is on our minds and agendas as much as it is, not I believe because of hundreds of Israeli civilians killed and wounded, but because we are rapidly being transformed in [...] 16729 101 15_WHile I'm at it0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:11:42 EST369_US-ASCII I've got a bunch of questions I'm too busy or too lazy to reasearch for myself, so if you know (please don't look things up for my sake)

1. What do the peace agreements with Egypt and Jordan say about the land we took from them? I remember we agreed to give back Sharm Il'Sheik and the west coast of the Red sea. What about Gaza and the West Bank? [...] 16831 64 15_Cultural bagage12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:26:03 +0200560_iso-8859-1 Haverot/im Rivka and I went to a musical evening at our synagogue last night in honor of Ezri Uval who died three years ago. For years he had been our ba’al koreh and cantor. He prepared two of our children and a granddaughter for their bar mitzva. In dedication and knowledge few were his equal. His voice was only so - so. The evening, a fund raiser for A Jewish Music Center named for him featured the secular and sacred music of Sephardic Jewry. There were two guitar players two singers and a master of ceremonies. The four musicians were [...] 16896 84 9_Re: Media11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:33:21 -0500282_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:

> Gary, > I once sent such a picture and I was practically blasted off Habonet. I am > sure it must still be in the archives. It was a picture of the dead Pass > baby.

Pearl,

His name is Barry, but why let the facts get in the way. [...] 16981 89 34_Palestinian school books on Israel7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 01:21:41 +0200614_iso-8859-1 P.A. TEXTBOOKS: NEW STATE WILL REPLACE ISRAEL > The Palestinian Authority is educating its young that a future Palestinian > state will not live alongside Israel in peace, but will rather replace > Israel. Thus reports Journalist David Bedein of The Israel Resource News > Agency based on excerpts from more than 60 new Palestinian Authority > textbooks, published on the website of the Center for Monitoring the Impact > of Peace, . The excerpts indicate that the PA is continuing > its policy of educating its students to liberate all of Palestine - not > just Judea, Samaria, and [...] 17071 221 19_Re: WHile I'm at it7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 01:46:00 +0200545_iso-8859-1 Dennis, This is the Wild West here and you are looking for logic?? Just to elaborate slightly on one point: most of the land conquered in 1967 was State land owned by Jordan, which they received from the British. Some land was given to Arabs who acted as tax farmers for the Turkish, but for the most part this land was uninhabited. One of the ways an Arab has to prove he personally owns land is to show that he has been paying taxes on the land. Literally tens of thousands of homes are being built by Arabs illegally, without [...] 17293 130 9_Re: Media7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:13:10 +0200576_iso-8859-1 it is a mistake to call the land "Palestinian owned land." There was no Palestine entity that owned land here before 1967. The land that we conquered was owned by Jordan, the vast majority of the holdings owned by the government of Jordan by virtue of conquest of the territory in 1948. Prior to that the land was owned by the British by virtue of conquest from the Turks. There was very little privately owned land in Palestine. There were tracts owned by absentee landlords in Beirut, etc. but most of the land, rocky and barren, was State-owned land. There [...] 17424 104 9_Re: Media7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:22:36 +0200284_iso-8859-1 The letter asked about such pictures and I told him about one. I answered his question. What is your problem? I wrote that these pictures should NOT be shown because it is too painful for us to see, and we do not have to mimic what the Arabs do. It is a chilul. pearl [...] 17529 49 9_Re: Media11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:30:27 -0500316_us-ascii Skolnik wrote:

> The letter asked about such pictures and I told him about one. I answered > his question. What is your problem? I wrote that these pictures should NOT > be shown because it is too painful for us to see, and we do not have to > mimic what the Arabs do. > It is a chilul. > pearl [...] 17579 38 16_Cultural baggage11_Lon Ephraim14_cbma@erols.com31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:29:00 -0800554_us-ascii Dear Amnon,

I get your drift. My father didn't bleed at Valley Forge either. My mother wasn't with Lewis & Clark. Neither one was on the Mayflower. But my mom & aunt came on the Warren Harding in '39 (their family in Poland was gone within 2 years) and my dad came from Poland/Russia on some other boat in the early '20's. They did adequately well with very little to hinder them culturally, idealogically, or otherwise. And they taught me to say ,"Thank you", when someone is good to me. So since I live here I baste the turkey and [...] 17618 34 19_for DC area chevreh13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:38:39 -0500480_us-ascii Dear Chevreh-

My synagogue , Adat Shalom, has started a once-a-month Friday night program that some of you might be interested in. It is called "Shabbat Slam" and it takes place on the last Friday of each month. This Friday will be the second one we've done. After a high energy musical service that begins at 8 PM, there is an hour or so of Israeli dancing led by Moshe Shem Tov. Starting in December, this will be followed by a kumsitz led by Shlomo Cohen. [...] 17653 31 23_Re: for DC area chevreh0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:22:06 EST125_US-ASCII For those Chevre not in the DC area, when do you go on tour and how can we get Syracuse on the list of stops? Dennis 17685 96 9_Re: Media7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:01:01 +0200510_iso-8859-1 Noam, I believe the letter asked why we do not show the world our wounded and killed in the media like the Arabs do. I wrote back why I think we can not do such a thing in Israel, because we could not take it emotionally and because we consider it a chilul ha-met. I believe the Pass baby picture was distributed with the consent of the parents who wanted the world to know. I sent it on because I knew that that was the case. We do not normally show in the media such pictures in Israel. I am [...] 17782 20 23_Re: for DC area chevreh0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 17:52:15 EST343_US-ASCII Where is Adat Shalom? Washington? By the way, I'm back from Key West. Quite a blast but now I'm looking for work again--perhaps as a rabbi, Hillel or pulpit or with an organization. Any suggestions out there? By the way, it's good to be back and back to the habonet after a bit of an absence--Rabbi Jack Porter ("Jackie" Porter) [...] 17803 106 20_The Tikkun Community18_Abba & Dvora Caspi16_adcaspi@home.com31_Mon, 26 Nov 2001 23:25:31 -0500659_Windows-1252 You are invited to a national conference sponsored by TIKKUN Magazine in New York City, January 20-21, to create The Tikkun Community--a new national organization for people who want to build the path of Emancipatory Spirituality.

This path recognizes that social change requires both the development of an inner life and connection to the hunger for meaning that transcends the selfishness and materialism of the competitive marketplace, and on the other hand a transformation of the economic, political and social realities that corrode our abilities to recognize others as equally valuable and equally created in the image of God. [...] 17910 38 34_Please email and call your friends0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Tue, 27 Nov 2001 03:40:06 EST324_US-ASCII Dear Habonet,

Please make a few phone calls and send a few emails to anyone you know in the Boston or Albany or New Haven area with potential kids Habonim camp age:

Open House for Camp Na'aleh!

Meet campers, parents, and alumni! Watch a video! Look at pictures of our site! Ask questions! [...] 17949 35 23_Re: for DC area chevreh13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:47:07 -0500596_us-ascii Dear Jackie-

Welcome back.

Adat Shalom is actually in Bethesda, MD, just outside the beltway, very near River Road and Seven Locks Road at 7727 Persimmon Tree Lane.

Wish you all lived near enough to come join me.

Warmly- Judy

JackNusan@aol.com wrote:

> Where is Adat Shalom? Washington? By the way, I'm back from Key West. Quite a > blast but now I'm looking for work again--perhaps as a rabbi, Hillel or > pulpit or with an organization. Any suggestions out there? By the way, it's > good to be back and back to the habonet after a bit of [...] 17985 308 30_Fw: 83 websites about Chanukah7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:36:16 +0200649_iso-8859-1 Happy Chanuka holiday to all, pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: Jacob Richman To: Informal Aliyah discussion group Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 3:58 AM Subject: 83 websites about Chanukah



> Hi Everyone! > > Chanukah, the Jewish Festival of Lights, is observed for > eight days, beginning on the evening of the 25th day of > the Hebrew month of Kislev. This year Chanukah starts > at sundown, Sunday, December 9th, 2001 and lasts for > eight days thru Monday, December 17th, 2001. > Chanukah is a wonderful holiday of renewed dedication, > faith, hope and spiritual [...] 18294 26 29_good site for maps of Israel?11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:18:20 -0500505_us-ascii

Hi,

Mapquest is woefully inadequate for maps of Israel.

Is there a good site for locating cities and kibbutzim in Israel?

Thanks,

Noam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 18321 90 33_Re: good site for maps of Israel?13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:29:00 +0200589_iso-8859-1 Noam, these are some decent Israeli map sites: http://www.emap.co.il/ http://www.index.co.il/indexmap/ http://www.boker.org.il/meida/negev/maps/ http://www.carta-jerusalem.co.il/ http://www.mapi.gov.il/ http://www.iris.org.il/security_maps.htm

If they don't satisfy, here are a few good online map services: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ http://plasma.nationalgeographic.com/mapmachine/ http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/english/htmain.htm http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/gnrlmapPlaces01.html http://geography.about.com/library/maps/blindex.htm

Enjoy, Jon 18412 53 26_Fw: Green Zionist Alliance12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 28 Nov 2001 20:55:46 +0200647_windows-1255 I don't know how these elections work, if Habonim members vote for their own slate or what, but thought I'd pass this on.

Trudy

----- Original Message ----- From: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:15 AM Subject: Green Zionist Alliance



> The Green Zionist Alliance is the only environmental zionist slate running > for delegates in the United States delegation to the 34th World Zionist > Congress that will be held in Jerusalem this coming June. They have until > December 14th to get 1,500 signatures so that they can get on the ballot for > the Zionist Congress [...] 18466 127 42_Just Like Back in Carnegie Hall in the 60s0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Thu, 29 Nov 2001 03:23:26 EST572_US-ASCII Dear Chevreh,

The esteemed Sam Bergman, same person who gets the credit for having designed PeopleFinder, will be coming out of dance choreographer retirement to choreograph this year's performance of the Habonim Adult Dancers (Naomi Goldberg Honor will choreograph this year's Na'aleh Chanichim Dancers which looks to be about 16 kids!!) - as such, I am reprinting the following post. Please notify me immediately if you wish to join us. The first rehearsal Sam is coming up from D. C. to choreograph is Sunday, Dec. 16th. (From Aliya CHeskis-Cotel) [...] 18594 53 51_NYTimes.com Article: A Constituency Ready for Peace0_17_rbarland@mjds.org37_Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:10:16 -0800 (PST)988_- This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by rbarland@mjds.org.



/-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\



Special Offer to NY Times customers: Spend $100 & ship free at Starbucks.com

http://www.nytimes.com/ads/starbucks/email.html

\----------------------------------------------------------/



A Constituency Ready for Peace

November 29, 2001

By J. J. GOLDBERG



Jewish Americans are far more flexible on Mideast policy than many politicians think.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/29/opinion/29GOLD.html?ex=1008050216&ei=1&en=f47ebe20d350a13c





HOW TO ADVERTISE --------------------------------- For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters or other creative advertising opportunities with The New York Times on the Web, please contact Alyson Racer at alyson@nytimes.com or visit our online media kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo [...] 18648 18 33_Re: good site for maps of Israel?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:34:47 EST511_US-ASCII To all the chevreh. How can I buy a large Israeli flag? My son at Skidmore College wants one for his room. Thanks--Jackie Porter from Newtomn, Mass. Can one order them by mail?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 18667 20 33_Re: good site for maps of Israel?14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:11:08 +0200436_iso-8859-1 Dear Jack,

try www.jpost.com - they often have stuff for sale there.....

Dave Holtzer

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 18688 17 17_For Yoni Schultz!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:15:12 EST447_US-ASCII Yoni- can you email me your email address??? Seem to have lost it and I have to send you some stuff! Thanks- Sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 18706 39 21_Re: For Yoni Schultz!11_Noam Stopak19_stopak@orionsci.com31_Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:32:36 -0500346_us-ascii



LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:

> Yoni- can you email me your email address??? Seem to have lost it and I have > to send you some stuff! Thanks- Sue

FYI for future reference:

If the person you are looking for is on habonet, one way to get the address is to send a message to listproc@shamash.org with [...] 18746 17 21_Re: For Yoni Schultz!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:11:53 EST423_US-ASCII Thanks Noam- you are a wise and learned soul!- (I forgot about the people finder...!)sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 18764 50 19_Na'aleh Open Houses0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 30 Nov 2001 00:49:39 EST371_US-ASCII Dear Habochevreh,

Please call anyone you can think of who should know about these open houses - in addition to the 2 previous ones I listed:



Come to an Open House for Camp Naaleh!

Meet campers, parents, and alumni! Watch a video! Look at pictures of our new site! Ask questions!

When? Sunday, December 9, 1:00PM - 3:00PM [...] 18815 78 18_happens to us, too0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:02:58 EST475_US-ASCII This message is brought to you by the Jewish Women Leaders Online listserve, a project of the Jewish Women's Coalition, Inc., creating a network of social justice activists working on issues significant to Jewish women (and men). The following is condensed from an article by Susan Wittman, special correspondent for the South Florida Sun Sentinel, issue of November 4, 2001. *************************************************************** CONFRONTING THE MYTH [...] 18894 72 13_Anti Semitism14_Ethan Schwartz24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:14:07 +0200557_windows-1255 A short time ago Sam wrote a note saying that anti Zionism is not anti Semitism, frankly I was left wordless, I found the words now.









You declare that you do not hate Jews, you are merely anti-Zionist. And I say, let the truth ring forth from high on the mountain tops... When people criticize Zionism, they mean Jews... What is anti-Zionist? It is the denial of the Jewish people of a fundamental right that we justly claim for the people of Africa and freely accord all other nations of the globe." [...] 18967 297 12_Benny Morris13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:21:55 +0200472_windows-1255 NOVEMBER 27, 03:39 EST

Historian Draws Harsh Conclusions

By DAN PERRY Associated Press Writer

JERUSALEM (AP) Israeli historian Benny Morris has long had uncomfortable things to say.

In the 1980s he showed through dogged research that most Palestinians were expelled in the 1947-48 war that created Israel shattering a long-held view that they left voluntarily, and ignoring the cries that he was undermining the Jewish state. [...] 19265 1137 22_Benny Morris interview13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:40:51 +0200606_windows-1255 INTERVIEW WITH BENNY MORRIS THE ARABS ARE THE SAME ARABS Yedioth Ahronoth (p. M13) by Meiron Rappaport -- [Nov. 23] The audience at the Theological Institute at Berkeley thought it knew what awaited it. It had been promised a lecture about the peace process by Professor Benny Morris, an Israeli historian, a known leftist, who found it hard to find a job even in the enlightened Israeli universities because of his irregular opinions that defy the official Zionist version of history. Berkeley remains one of the bastions of the radical Left in the United States, and all the people who [...] 20403 48 15_Biram and Ikrit14_Ethan Schwartz24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 01 Dec 2001 01:10:40 +0200177_iso-8859-1 Hi Jon

I was wondering how You'll up there were dealing with the court decision on Biram and Ikrit? Don't you guys farm some of that land?



Ethan 20452 67 19_Re: Biram and Ikrit13_Jonathan Baum19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:22:39 +0200593_iso-8859-1 Hi Ethan. Re: Biram, basically, we're opposed to having them come back here. Bad precedent, you know. What the committee that was set up by the government proposed was that, rather then settle the former residents of Biram in their original village (which today is a National Park because of the 1st century synagogue there), a new settlement would be constructed for them on a hill right next to Sasa, and overlooking our orchards. Needless to say, we don't think it's a good idea. Almost all the agricultural land of Biram is today worked by Kibbutz Baram and Kibbutz Yaron. [...] 20520 303 48_The Thanksgiving Responsa or No Turkey for Amnon11_Bruce Arbit17_BARBIT@abdata.com31_Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:27:35 -0600507_iso-8859-1 Last Sunday Amnon wrote a wonderful piece titled "Cultural Baggage". He spoke about reclaiming some lost luggage in terms of his never having been open to appreciate the beauty of Sephardic music. Next time I am in Jerusalem, I will sure to find my way to his home by following the sounds of Ladino ballads and love songs coming from his stereo ;). Selections from Cantos Tradicionales y Romances Judeo-españoles de Orientenbeing or Cantares y Romances Tradicionales Sefardíes de Marruecos. [...] 20824 33 52_Re: The Thanksgiving Responsa or No Turkey for Amnon0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 30 Nov 2001 23:05:53 EST435_US-ASCII In a message dated 11/30/01 7:34:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, BARBIT@abdata.com writes:

> Jewish law (halacha) permits American Jews to celebrate Thanksgiving because > it is a secular holiday. Jewish law says Jews can celebrate secular holidays > as long as 1) they are not celebrated with people who bring religious > worship to the celebration and 2) the celebration does not appear to be a > religious ritual. [...]