1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet June 2001 2 86 36_Re: More on Viruses and other Hoaxes25_Hank Kaplan & Marni Glick17_hkmg@teleport.com31_Thu, 31 May 2001 22:51:16 -0700377_windows-1255 Thanks, Jon, for the treatise on virus hoaxes and chain letters. I passed it on to ten of my friends with a warning that if they didn't pass it on to ten others, they would probably be victimized by more hoaxes. - Hank ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Baum To: Habonet Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 8:18 AM Subject: More on Viruses and other Hoaxes [...] 89 37 14_Re: Virus Hoax0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Jun 2001 04:21:50 EDT376_US-ASCII In a message dated 5/31/01 7:11:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jonbaum@sasa.org.il writes:

<< You can make yourself chain-letter-proof by taking literally about a minute to check up on any claims made in chain letters. There are any number of resources you can use, including: >>

Don't forget, an old fashioned telephone call can still work wonders: [...] 127 79 13_Where it's at12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:37:27 +0200611_iso-8859-1 Haverim/ot We returned from a short vacation to Rhodes, freshened up and went to a wedding at Congregation Mevakshei Derekh. Lots of old Habonim haverot and haverim were there. A good klezmer band played Jewish and Israeli tunes. You could tell that they were klezmerim because they wore vests and black caps with small peaks. In Rhodes I had bought an almost identical cap in blue called a Greek fisherman's hat. The fisherman hats were quite the fashion here in the 'seventies after many landlocked Israelis discovered the Greek islands to the west and broke out of their claustrophobia. What [...] 207 84 38_Fw: SOLIDARITY RALLY FOR ISRAEL in NYC8_J Gordon20_mountain@neworld.net30_Fri, 1 Jun 2001 08:15:15 -0700527_Windows-1252



> Maybe those of you in NYC for the weekend might want to go... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rabbi Kalman Packouz" > To: "Rabbi Packouz's ShabbatShalom List" > Sent: Friday, June 01, 2001 9:04 AM > Subject: SOLIDARITY RALLY FOR ISRAEL in NYC > > > > > > Dear Friends: > > > > Israel need your support > > > > Bring your family and friends with you to: > > > > SOLIDARITY RALLY FOR ISRAEL! > > > > When : Sunday, June 3rd - 11a.m. > > > > [...] 292 34 11_virus alert0_15_Marshlf@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Jun 2001 22:42:35 EDT165_US-ASCII Well, gang, my computer has hiccupped a few times today, and now my AV software has picked up on the SLFNBK.EXE files as infected. Happy June 1.

lisa 327 34 19_virus clarification0_15_Marshlf@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Jun 2001 23:08:35 EDT175_US-ASCII according to the activity report from my AV software, the sulfnbk.exe file was infected with W32.Magistr.24876@mm virus from a file downloaded from hdnacamp.zip. lisa 362 261 25_Support in time of crisis5_yigal18_ysela@inter.net.il30_Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:05:51 +0200400_windows-1255 2/6/01

Dear Friends

As I read day by day the letters of Haboniminks (of today and yesteryear) vis-a-vis the present Palestinian/Israel crisis, I cannot help but notice that there is a large majority (at least of those writing) who not only seem to put most of the blame on Israel but see their main purpose to push the Palestinian needs to the forefront of the stage. [...] 624 76 29_Re: Support in time of crisis0_14_KBob24@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Jun 2001 08:43:16 EDT526_US-ASCII Yigal:

I have not participated in the discussions on Habonet regarding the conflict in Israel because I don't view it as a productive use of my time. I am sure there are many other Habonetters who are in the very same position. I am writing now simply out of support for you and others who are living in Israel through this tense and depressing time. I wouldn't want you to think that what you have read in Habonet reflects a lack of support or understanding on the part of Habonim alumni and supporters. [...] 701 30 41_Need a ride to the Kumzitz in NY Tonight?0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:22:08 EDT333_US-ASCII Chevre, Shabat Shalom

Sue Nissan is driving from Philly to my house in NJ and we're going together to the Habonim Kumzitz in Manhattan tonight

(Temple Ansche Chesed, 251 W. 100th St at West End Ave. - $12 at the door. Rikud (Israeli dance) 7-8:30, Havdala, Shira & Makela (Folk & Choral singing) 8:45-?.) [...] 732 76 24_Where it's at-continued.13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Sat, 02 Jun 2001 21:58:09 -0700563_utf-8 To Amnon and Habonet.

The events of last night have again put the question of the Purpose (is there) of our being here into sharp relief but what I write here is not as a result of the dastardly bombing in Tel Aviv.

Once upon a time I believed in "secular down to earth rather than transcendent ambitions" (quoting you Amnon.) No Longer. About 25 years ago I began to change my mind--as a result of the "Mahapach" -- the coming to power of the Likud which left Labor Zionism flailing in limbo to this very day. Secular Zionism (including [...] 809 50 29_Re: Support in time of crisis13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com36_Sat, 2 Jun 2001 12:12:17 -0700 (PDT)586_us-ascii Dear Yigal,

Of course, what you have written is true. It is also true that the vast "silent majority" of American Jews, including the majority of Habonim alumni, agree with you and support Israel as you do.

Habonim has always had a highly vocal and aggressive minority of radicals who tend to drown out the moderate and reasonable majority. These radicals viciously attack those who dare to disagree with them. In addition, many of them believe that they alone fully comprehend Mideast politics and that their solution is the only true and correct solution. [...] 860 48 38_Sharon's decicion not to retaliate now0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Jun 2001 17:23:22 EDT528_US-ASCII Just went to the web site of Ha'aretz and read that the cabinet had met and decided not to imediatly retaliate the killing in Tel Aviv. I never believed that I would compliment Sharon for anything but I am doing so now. The killing was timed for his trip to Europe and they expected a rapid response. I believe he fooled them. He also sent a mesage in closing the Gaza airport and informing Arafat that he could not fly away. I am also very certain that the presence of Peres at the meeting had a great deal to do [...] 909 49 29_Re: Support in time of crisis16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com31_Sun, 03 Jun 2001 04:03:56 -0000451_-

Yigal, Kol Hakavod. I'll be honest, most of the mail from Habonet goes straight into my bulk mail box without ever being read, just because I'm tired or all of the rhetoric on both sides. I can very much identify with your words.

Although I don't currently live in Israel, my wife and I are still very attached (she was born there and her whole family is there. I spent most of the 1990's there, more than a quarter of my life). [...] 959 128 11_Monthly FAQ12_Jennifer Kay19_kay@elvis.rowan.edu31_Sun, 03 Jun 2001 02:32:03 -0400421_- Actually-from:BCooper@descartes.com

Hi Chevre,

Here is a reminder of the "essential" commands that you can use to configure your subscription to Habonet. I will post this monthly from now on. Please note -- The address for commands is: listproc@shamash.org whereas the address for posts to the list is: habonet@shamash.org If you need any help with any of it, send me an email: BCooper@descartes.com [...] 1088 106 0_15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il30_Sun, 3 Jun 2001 12:44:29 +0200734_windows-1255 I am pasting in an article from HAARETZ about privatizing Kibbutzim. (Please excuse the strange appearance- but I'm trying to avoid attachments)





Sunday, June 3, 2001



Government may privatize kibbutzim

By Zvi Maor Ha'aretz Real Estate Correspondent

Senior kibbutz leaders and Agriculture Minister Shalom Simhon have been discussing the prospect of making fundamental changes to the structure of kibbutzim - possibly turning them into small farming communities (moshavim) or some other form of less-communal agricultural entities. This would spell the end of the kibbutz as we know it today, closing a chapter of Zionist history represented by the unique collective [...] 1195 186 22_Support in this crisis13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sun, 03 Jun 2001 18:33:07 -0400541_us-ascii Dear Yigal-

Your letter made me very sad because you, like every Israeli I know, sounds so achingly alone and abandoned.

Many of us on Habonet who live in the States are thinking about Israel much of the time. We watch the news. We read what we can. But we are not living the life you are living under siege by terrorists. We can't be where you are in your thinking. We lag behind and we look from a distance lens. It doesn't mean we don't care. It means that no matter how much we view ourselves as zionists, we [...] 1382 34 26_Re: Support in this crisis0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Sun, 3 Jun 2001 18:43:53 EDT114_US-ASCII Judy G, thank you for saying what was in my heart as well. Kol hakavod lach, and thank you.

Debbie 1417 156 40_Re: FW: Exciting Jewish Work Opportunity0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 02:54:34 EDT528_US-ASCII A good job for a Habohead needing part time. Oh to be a young Jewish activist at Columbia once again!

Chaver Steve ===========================================

In a message dated 5/31/01 4:52:34 PM, aweinberg@shefafund.org writes:

<< Know anyone?



-----Original Message-----

From: Rabbi Jennie Rosenn [mailto:jcr40@columbia.edu]

Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 2:32 PM

Subject: Exciting Work Opportunity



Dear Fellow Young Jewish Social Activists, [...] 1574 61 42_Re: Sharon's decicion not to retaliate now12_Stan Goldman17_stang@urim.org.il30_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 11:06:01 +020070_iso-8859-1 I feel as you do but I am afaid it is wishful thinking Stan 1636 167 29_Re: Support in time of crisis11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 11:28:24 -0400452_us-ascii (I drafted this message before reading Judy Gelman's note which covers the gist of my response to Yigal, which is further down in this message, much more eloquently. Thanks Judy!)

Aubrey,

I feel I have to respond to you directly, and I also want to respond to Yigal. I apologize in advance for the length of this message, though I'm sure there are many open minded members of the list who have already deleted it by now :-) [...] 1804 172 29_Re: Support in time of crisis13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:15:27 -0400547_us-ascii Yasher Koach. Judy

Noam Stopak wrote:

> (I drafted this message before reading Judy Gelman's note > which covers the gist of my response to Yigal, which is > further down in this message, much more eloquently. > Thanks Judy!) > > Aubrey, > > I feel I have to respond to you directly, and I also want to > respond to Yigal. I apologize in advance for the length of > this message, though I'm sure there are many open minded > members of the list who have already deleted it by now :-) > > Congratulations. A masterpiece [...] 1977 23 29_Re: Support in time of crisis13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 12:34:52 -0400340_Windows-1252 yishar koach Judy Gelman and Noam Stopak. You both have expressed a great part of my own thoughts in a manner and timing I could not match myself. Your sincere efforts to articulate thoughts and positions in a time of such tension and hardships for all of us supporters of Israel deserve all praise and kavod. ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 2001 22 29_Re: Support in time of crisis0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 12:47:12 EDT426_ISO-8859-1 And kol hakavod l'cha, Noam. Thank you for saying it so well.

I am always uncomfortable with folks who purport to speak for me, purport to speak for a "majority" of any group of people, and/or to assume I must have a certain attitude. Noam, your analogy of a child who you love unconditionally but whose behavior you might not be so please with really resonated with me, as I'm sure it did with others. [...] 2024 23 29_Re: Support in time of crisis0_20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:52:52 -0400600_-

> yishar koach Judy Gelman and Noam Stopak.

Amen to that!

The demonstration in New York on Sunday was supposed to be about support for Israel. It turned out to be a pro-Sharon pep rally.

Because of who I am, based on my Jewish education and my experience in Habonim, I cannot in good conscience support a state which oppresses large numbers of its inhabitants. I know dozens of American Jews who love Israel but cannot support the disastrous occupation. We can no longer accept the tired canard that we must offer unconditional support for the Israeli government. [...] 2048 20 32_"80 Theses for a New Peace Camp"0_20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 13:55:19 -0400687_- I heartily recommend the thought-provoking manifesto "80 Theses for a New Peace Camp" which has been advanced by Gush Shalom:

http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives.html

I don't know if anybody agrees with all 80 paragraphs (I certainly don't), but in my view "80 Theses" provides valuable food for thought.

David Fleiss dfleiss@pipeline.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2069 22 29_Re: Support in time of crisis13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 14:01:41 -0400498_Windows-1252 Dear David Fleiss,

Amen to you too. I am thrilled to hear new and strong voices for reason and for a just peace in this Habonim alumni list. ___ |Y| ^^^

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2092 32 29_Re: Support in time of crisis11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:00:34 -0400476_us-ascii dfleiss@pipeline.com wrote:

> ... > > Because of who I am, based on my Jewish education and my experience in Habonim, I cannot in good conscience support a state which oppresses large numbers of its inhabitants. I know dozens of American Jews who love Israel but cannot support the disastrous occupation. We can no longer accept the tired canard that we must offer unconditional support for the Israeli government. > > David Fleiss > dfleiss@pipeline.com [...] 2125 20 29_Re: Support in time of crisis0_20_dfleiss@pipeline.com31_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:57:02 -0400439_- Noam wrote:

> B'karov u b'yameinu.

Bim'hayra, bim'hayra!

David Fleiss dfleiss@pipeline.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2146 44 36_Re: "80 Theses for a New Peace Camp"13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 15:52:00 -0400350_Windows-1252 > I heartily recommend the thought-provoking manifesto "80 Theses for a New Peace Camp" which has been advanced by Gush Shalom: > > http://www.gush-shalom.org/archives.html > > I don't know if anybody agrees with all 80 paragraphs (I certainly don't), but in my view "80 Theses" provides valuable food for thought. > > David Fleiss [...] 2191 44 29_Re: Support in time of crisis0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 16:10:59 EDT253_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/4/01 11:32:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, n.stopak@scienceserver.com writes:



> to love one's neighbor as oneself,

Oh no!!! Does this phrase suggest that our beloved Noam has succumbed to the J4J?

2236 22 29_Re: Support in time of crisis0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 16:30:39 EDT392_ISO-8859-1 Richardsmith, what does that have to do with J4J? Most Jews with any Jewish education at all could tell you that's in the Torah.

Jesus was a nice (?) Jewish boy and a good Pharisee, and took a lot of stuff from the Bible. It was later coopted by Christians as if he invented it.......like the "golden rule" (attributed to Hillel and others), this came from OUR people. [...] 2259 50 29_Re: Support in time of crisis0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:58:10 EDT539_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/4/01 4:31:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DebALev@aol.com writes:



> Richardsmith, what does that have to do with J4J? Most Jews with any Jewish > education at all could tell you that's in the Torah. >

Perhaps I am wrong but I always thought the Jewish version of the Golden Rule was stated in the negative, i.e. "Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to yourself," rather than the more positive Christian version which states, "Do unto others as you would want done unto yourself." 2310 44 58_Cooptation and meaning (was Re: Support in time of crisis)0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 18:30:30 EDT354_ISO-8859-1 In a message dated Mon, 4 Jun 2001 5:58:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Richardrdsmith@aol.com writes:

<< In a message dated 6/4/01 4:31:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DebALev@aol.com writes:



Richardsmith, what does that have to do with J4J? Most Jews with any Jewish education at all could tell you that's in the Torah. [...] 2355 45 36_Re: "80 Theses for a New Peace Camp"11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:23:42 -0400583_us-ascii Dear David and Yuval,

I agree that this is an excellent articulation - of the Palestinian side. Unfortunately, while it calls on both sides to work to understand and incorporate the other side's perspective, it seems very one sided to me.

I won't be signing up for this Reformation.

Noam

Yuval Warshai wrote:

> Dear David, > > Thanks a lot for the pointer. I am in shock after growing up as I grew up > and after serving in the Israeli army for so many years as a rational and > necessary corollary to my chosen and acquired national [...] 2401 18 23_Re: love your 're'a'...13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 19:24:46 -0700484_- "veahavta lere'acha kamocha," from where the Jewish and Christian variants derive is from Vayikrah (Leviticus) 19:18 (parashat kdoshim). ___ |Y| ^^^



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2420 20 23_Re: love your 're'a'...0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 04 Jun 2001 19:46:55 EDT508_ISO-8859-1 Thanks, Yuval; all of my books are still in A2 and I just don't have it memorized!

Vayikra, Shmot, Dvarim..........I KNEW it was one of 'em (hee hee).

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2441 244 32_Re: Noam's response to my letter13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com36_Mon, 4 Jun 2001 20:37:18 -0700 (PDT)582_us-ascii It was a deep pleasure to hear, once again, from my intelligent and expressive friend, Noam.

I respectfully disagree with his attacks upon me. I believe my analysis is correct.

I agree with Noam that I do not know everything. I respectfully point out the fact that neither does he.

I agree strongly with him that support of Israel does not mean blind support. I agree that, despite horrrific provocations, Israelis should not become barbarians, should not stoop to committing the same crimes which have been relentlessly perpetrated against them. [...] 2686 65 29_Re: Support in time of crisis13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com36_Tue, 5 Jun 2001 06:11:28 -0700 (PDT)625_us-ascii I agree with Noam that Israel cannot simply withdraw, and that Israelis have the right to make the decisions about timing and the agreements needed prior to withdrawal. Alas, the "Palestinian Authority's" rejection of Barak's unique offer, and the PA's subsequent "low intensity" war against Israel call into question the PA's willingness, and ability, to adhere, in good faith, to ANY agreement with the hated State of Israel. Best, Aubrey --- Noam Stopak wrote: > dfleiss@pipeline.com wrote: > > > ... > > > > Because of who I am, based on my Jewish education > and my experience [...] 2752 108 29_Re: Support in time of crisis13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 05 Jun 2001 09:59:12 -0400595_us-ascii Dear Chevreh-

Unfortunately, this may get a lot worse before it gets better and although I don't think that we owe Israel unconditional or uncritical support no matter what happens, I think we do, as Zionists, owe Israel considerable support.

Many of us (including me) got out of the habit of support during the Begin years and many of us hearken back to those days and all the missteps of those times as the ugly seed of many of today's troubles. However, when you love someone or something, there are times when you point out mistakes and disagreements and actions [...] 2861 18 25_Summer Programs in Israel11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Tue, 05 Jun 2001 07:02:05 -0700465_us-ascii Hi, I was told today that the Jewish Federation has canceled all its summer programs to Israel. Is that so? What is Habonim doing?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2880 33 29_Re: Summer Programs in Israel13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 05 Jun 2001 10:13:06 -0400547_us-ascii Dear Batel, The Reform movement officially canceled the NIFTY trips yesterday . Habonim has the maskir and gizbar in Israel talking to WOrld Habonim and the Jewish Agency. The camp committees had a conference call on Sunday night. As I type, Alexis Kort, director of Israel programs, is polling parents to see how many would send their kids if MBI goes. I am not on the inner circle on this one. I am just a parent agonizing over what I will do with my own daughter who is registered and who up until Friday was very eager to go and [...] 2914 28 24_anyone know mollie marx?12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Tue, 5 Jun 2001 11:15:23 -0400459_iso-8859-1 Hi All,

I keep getting email from Mollie Marx in regard to Habonet or possibly the Habonim Dror Foundation. I'm not really sure, but my replies to her keep bouncing. Is anyone on the list in contact with her through a medium other than email?

Thanks, brian

----------------------------- Brian Cooper, Web Development Manager, Descartes Systems Group bcooper@descartes.com, 516.393.5900 ext. 7922, http://www.descartes.com [...] 2943 133 23_Re: HABONET digest 190312_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 05 Jun 2001 20:55:18 +0200635_us-ascii Haverim/ot Following on Habonet digest 1903 I'd like to take us questions of Ultimate Support. Support in this time of crisis has unexpected jagged edges to it. None of the accustomed pride and reflected glory in Israel's early achievements are available nor are cuddly, feel-good emotions. No expression feels adequate or sincere enough. Worse, the confusion and guilt are exacerbated when correspondents on the Israel side of Habonet make strident demands like: * don't speak of love, show me, * certainly don't speak critically. Yigal, forgive me for saying that I think you were really excessive. Still, the proof of [...] 3077 34 25_You People are Ridiculous33_Shoshana Baumgarten & Harry Cohen20_shoharry@inorbit.com31_Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:07:22 +0200530_us-ascii Hi!

I know it's been said before, but you people have to learn to only quote the part of a previous message that you are relating too. There were 20 lousy messages in the digest today and it took up 46k. I would have no problem with that if it was mostly original stuff, but it is mostly complete quotes of previous long postings (with certain postings repeated twice in the same letter on some occasions) This is ridiculous, on other lists I get 80 messages (and better recipes) in the same amount of space! [...] 3112 34 19_your inner conflict14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:12:24 +0200595_iso-8859-1 Dear Habonetters,

I understand the frustrations of so many of you. I, for myself, am doubling my volunteer work with the Border Police (Mishmar HaG'vul), patroling our "county" which borders the Gaza Strip. Yes, I carry a rifle, and am prepared to use it to protect my family and friends.

Nobody trusts Arafat or Jihad or Hamas or any of the Palestinian organizations. THEY are the ones who send the suicide bombers, they are the ones who send gunmen to shoot at us. Unfortunately, there is no one else besides Arafat to speak for the Palestinian who wants to make [...] 3147 24 29_Re: You People are Ridiculous0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 05 Jun 2001 15:51:02 EDT340_ISO-8859-1 Harry, while you do have a point, there ARE some programs that automatically include the post to which one is responding.

If this continues to be a problem for you, and if people are not voluntarily disabling this and/or are including the post to which they are replying, then I might suggest that you go off digest. [...] 3172 25 29_Re: You People are Ridiculous11_Batel Libes19_batel@realmedia.com30_Tue, 5 Jun 2001 13:53:54 -0700543_iso-8859-1 Hi, As far as I know, all email programs give you the option of including or not the original text in response. You can configure this option under the respective program's preferences. You can also highlight and delete the previous message so it is not included, even if it's automatically there. It is more difficult to do so when forwarding messages, but that is also doable when you configure preferences. If you need help with this, please contact me directly and include the name of the software you are using for email. [...] 3198 28 29_suggestion on what to do.....14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 06:27:09 +0200469_iso-8859-1 I had an interesting chat with a friend last night. Among other things, he told me that he attended the opening of the new El Al terminal at JFK. The Israeli Consul was there and said the following words after the dedication....

This was a nice party. Now all of you go downstairs and buy a ticket to ticket to Israel and stay in a hotel and order room service. If you want to help, help by coming and supporting the tourism industry. JUST COME! [...] 3227 54 29_Re: You People are Ridiculous14_Tana Hemingway16_tanah@zianet.com31_Tue, 05 Jun 2001 23:34:08 -0600472_us-ascii It is not difficult to highlight and delete what one does not want to resend in a reply! Just highlight it and delete it. I always delete the many repetitions at the top of whatever I am forwarding...esp when someone has forwarded something to me that has a page of other addresses of people with whom they have shared the posting. I also close up the gaps in the text I do want to forward. For some this saves space too, and certainly for me if I print it. [...] 3282 37 23_Re: your inner conflict12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il30_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:57:15 +0300613_iso-8859-1 Dave Holtzer wrote: "Unfortunately, there is no one else besides Arafat to speak for the Palestinian who wants to make an honest day's wage and support his family."

Dave, there is NO ONE speaking for that poor Palestinian. Certainly Arafat does not. Search his Swiss bank accounts, remember the head of PA Television who was assassinated by Palestinians because of his corruption, look at the budding tourist industry - in the PA (I know, my husband was helping one of the projects) - crushed as well by the intifada, listen to all the Palestinians who continue risking stealing across the [...] 3320 30 33_Re: suggestion on what to do.....0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 03:16:39 EDT307_US-ASCII <> [...] 3351 28 33_Re: suggestion on what to do.....14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:08:26 +0200411_iso-8859-1 Just thought of something else you'all can do to help..... there is a program called, if I remember correctly, Volunteers for Israel. You volunteer to the Army for 2 weeks and help good old Zahal - painting tanks, doing maintenance, toranut mitbach, stuff like that. I bumped into a gentleman a few years back who was volunteering for his 6th straight year, and he was 83 years old at the time! [...] 3380 24 23_Re: your inner conflict14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 16:15:24 +0200364_iso-8859-1 Dear Doug,

Yes, we both agree - there is no one who speaks for the Palestinian who wants to live in peace and make a living to support his family. However, this fact does not mean that Israel or the US or Germany or anyone else HAS to deal with Arafat only. Besides, he won't live forever. Right now, the alternatives are even more radical. [...] 3405 30 12_Amnon Hadary13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com36_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 07:19:00 -0700 (PDT)468_us-ascii Dear Amnon,

You raise interesting points in your letter on cognitive dissonance, etc. However, you then claim to lighten things up by presenting us with two poems.

The poems were well written, but they did NOT lighten things up! They were damn serious, and sad. I welcome your presentation of poetry, but it would be best not to raise expectations for blessed relief from somberness, only to hand us more somberness, albeit in poetic form. [...] 3436 129 19_Fwd: Fw: Virus Hoax0_12_Zifl@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 11:21:34 EDT14_US-ASCII FYI - 3566 72 29_Admitting to Political Murder13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 12:35:44 -0400644_iso-8859-1 Dear friends,

I feel a heavy responsibility on my shoulders today, having unwittingly witnessed through the radio the closest admission I have heard or read to this day for the murdering of Prime Minister Ytzhak Rabin z"l.

Driving into work this morning I happened to hear the BBC's "News Hour" Alex Brody interview of Israel Meidad in Jerusalem. Mr. Meidad is one of the veteran spokespeople of the ideological settlers in the West Bank. The occasion for the interview was a settlers demonstration this evening in Jerusalem to press Sharon into escalating Israel's military response to the Palestinian Intefadeh. [...] 3639 35 29_Re: You People are Ridiculous11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 06 Jun 2001 14:14:20 -0400459_us-ascii



Tana Hemingway wrote:

> My pet peave is the programs that people use that repeat their entire > transmission, with code on every line and ALL the text repeated. What > programs do that and how can people who have them be instructed to prevent > the duplications?

This happens when messages are sent as both text and HTML (HyperText Markup Language). Any number of email programs do this depending on your settings. [...] 3675 52 15_Stalin's pogrom16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 06 Jun 2001 16:02:37 -0400634_us-ascii STALIN'S SECRET POGROM The Postwar Inquisition of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee Edited and introduced by Joshua Rubenstein and Vladimir P. Naumov Illustrated. 527 pages. Yale University Press. $35.

Just when it seems that every scrap of essential information about the former Soviet Union has come to light, new details surface about Stalin's bottomless pit of iniquity. A new book, "Stalin's Secret Pogrom," provides the full and startling case of the Jewish Anti-Fascist Committee, created with Stalin's approval during World War II for the purpose of winning support in the West for the Soviet war effort. [...] 3728 38 33_Re: suggestion on what to do.....0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:05:00 EDT362_US-ASCII If EL AL was actually interested in helping Israel in this time of crisis it would lower fatres instead of raising them. Several of my friends have tried to fly EL AL but fares of $ 2000.00 are out of line. We know that other lines have stoped flying to Israel or cut down on the number of flights. Is this a good reason for EL AL to raise fares? Baruch 3767 54 33_Re: suggestion on what to do.....0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Jun 2001 17:11:24 EDT550_US-ASCII EL AL has a published rate of $829.00 round-trip from JFK or Newark good for the entire summer high travel season. Originally the purchase date of the ticket was only until June 10 but it has already been extended beyond that date but we don't yet know for how long. Equally low rates are available from other gateway cities as well (Someone I know just booked a July flight out of LA for around $1,200) If there is anything to complain about with EL AL it is that their cancelation policy on tickets is a bit "expensive" but somehow I [...] 3822 21 29_Re: Summer Programs in Israel12_Honor Family18_jnhonor@rcknet.com31_Wed, 06 Jun 2001 23:52:09 -0400490_us-ascii I know that NFTY cancelled its Israel program for this summer late last week. I haven't heard about anyone else.

How is MBI holding up?

Naomi

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 3844 46 22_Re: Israel summer pgms17_Rena Cheskis-Gold16_renacg@ntplx.net31_Thu, 07 Jun 2001 01:05:30 -0400180_us-ascii The Israel summer program run by my kids' camp isn't being officially cancelled, but most of the kids have pulled out....

Rena Cheskis-Gold



> > > I > 3891 45 22_Attacks on Holy Places14_Martin Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il30_Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:47:12 +0200345_iso-8859-1 5 June 2001

Shalom Noam:

In Habonet Digest 1904, you wrote,

"" When Israeli's start stoning Arab citizens and attacking mosques .... this is not behavior I will support. How can we protest when Palestinians attack Jews who seek to visit holy places and turn a blind eye and silently accept this behavior? "" [...] 3937 24 29_Re: Summer Programs in Israel0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 02:50:38 EDT475_US-ASCII I heard that Habonim is continuing the programs to Israel. United Synagogue is continuing all of its programs as well. The Reform Movement cancelled all its programs and gave a rather distasteful quote to the press which was published on the Internet today: They said that they are cancelling all programs because the Reform movement doesn't believe in using children as political pawns. I find it hard to understand how Eric Yoffe let such a quote be printed. [...] 3962 56 33_Re: Admitting to Political Murder14_Martin Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il30_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 22:35:02 +0200341_iso-8859-1 7 June 2001

In Habonet Digest 1906, Yuval Warshai quotes the West Bank settler, Mr. Meidad, as follows: "" Every Prime Minister in Israel that had dared oppose us to this day has lost. Netanyahu lost, and Barak lost, and that goes back even to time of Likud Prime Minister Ytzhak Shamir after the Madrid conference."" [...] 4019 407 74_Remarks to the UAHC Board of Trustees on the Suspension of Trips to Israel13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:33:56 -0400647_us-ascii Dear Chevreh-

For those of you who want to read Eric Yoffe's remarks on canceling the NFTY programs, here they are.

As I read it, what he is saying is that in considering whether to cancel the trips, the Reform movement considered whether it could guarantee the safety of the children and only whether it could guarantee the safety of the children. By definition, considering anything besides the children's physical and psychological well-being and whether the trip can be educationally sound, such as the statement this makes about the organization's commitment to Israel, IS in fact playing political with children. [...] 4427 34 26_Re: Attacks on Holy Places11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 07 Jun 2001 08:36:55 -0400407_us-ascii Martin Goodman wrote:

> It is worthwhile to note that although the Israeli police acted to stop > angry Israelis who were attacking the Tel Aviv mosque which was located near > the location of last Friday's suicide bombing, the Palestinian Authority > appears to have done nothing to prevent Palestinian attacks on Jewish holy > sites including Joseph's Tomb, Rachel's Tomb, etc., etc. [...] 4462 30 49_email formats (was RE: You People are Ridiculous)12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:09:39 -0400608_iso-8859-1 Plain text is preferable. Please -- again -- AVOID HTML or RTF or any other format on mail to habonet. JUST plain text.

Thanks, your irritable list mom ----------------------------- Brian Cooper, Web Development Manager, Descartes Systems Group bcooper@descartes.com, 516.393.5900 http://www.descartes.com

> > In Netscape Communicator if you choose "preferences" from the > "edit" menu and look under "mail & newsgroups" at the "formatting" > settings you can specify whether the program will automatically > send messages as plain text, HTML, both or have it ask you. > > Noam [...] 4493 30 12_Neot Kedumim0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 11:22:41 EDT131_US-ASCII Does anyone know the Neot Kedumim website???? I would appreciate it if you could just post it to me privately- thanks- sue 4524 100 55_A note to "my intelligent and expressive friend" Aubrey11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 07 Jun 2001 14:46:34 -0400436_us-ascii aubrey jasper wrote:

> It was a deep pleasure to hear, once again, from my > intelligent and expressive friend, Noam.

> > I respectfully disagree with his attacks upon me. I > believe my analysis is correct.

Sorry if you don't like my tone, I was simply responding in kind. Are you suggesting I should adopt a unilateral cease-fire and refrain from retaliating for your relentless barrage of insults? [...] 4625 37 59_Re: A note to "my intelligent and expressive friend" Aubrey0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 07 Jun 2001 15:02:14 EDT571_ISO-8859-1 Noam said:

"I have never claimed to know everything. This is a constant source of frustration for my daughter who wants to believe I am all wise and all knowing. In a few years no doubt she will be glad I don't know everything :-)"



Noam, au contraire. In a few years, she will be absolutely certain that you don't know ANYTHING.......at least if she's a normal child. It has been so long since my kids thought I knew everything, I can't even remember it...but never fear, now in their 20s, they are at least starting to see that Mom [...] 4663 20 59_RE: A note to "my intelligent and expressive friend" Aubrey12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 15:54:10 -0400486_iso-8859-1 > Yeah, there are some people on Habonet that I think are > jerks..........

I resemble that statement...

--brian (well, groucho really)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4684 47 29_The Noam-Aubrey Saga, Part 9913_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com36_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 16:31:50 -0700 (PDT)321_us-ascii Dear Noam,

Of course I agree with you that Israelis have "stooped", on occasion, to actions which are regrettable and which should not have been done. I agree with you on many points, as I detailed in my last letter, which you have attacked, and, just now, re-attacked with such gusto and eloquence. [...] 4732 16 33_Re: The Noam-Aubrey Saga, Part 990_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 07 Jun 2001 19:40:48 EDT365_ISO-8859-1 Boys, boys, maspeek already!

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4749 29 19_Re: Civil discourse14_Paul Fingerman29_paul.fingerman@mindspring.com31_Wed, 06 Jun 2001 19:07:32 -0700423_us-ascii In a recent message, the sender noted, "I have repeatedly, and publicly, apologized for the tone of my remarks when I saw that they had gone overboard, or been inappropriate."

An interesting thing to take credit for...another approach would be to take heed that, perhaps, the tone should be examined *before* the message is sent. If nothing else, the need for apologies would be substantially reduced. [...] 4779 21 33_Re: Admitting to Political Murder12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il30_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:13:55 +0300619_iso-8859-1 Marty beat me to it. Knowing Yisrael Medad personally for many years - he from the Beitar side of the American Zionist youth movements and I from the Habonim side - I am sure there is no basis to infer from his remarks that he would/did support political assassination.

Trudy

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4801 160 46_Women In Black Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 02:18:57 EDT416_ISO-8859-1 Friends,



Just in time for June 8, the international movement of Women in Black has

been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. The following seems to be the

press release issued about this nomination.



This is a moving tribute to the work of Women in Black, whether or not it

results in a prize. We can only hope that the very nomination will serve to [...] 4962 18 28_Cancellation of Israel Trips13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:34:19 -0700529_utf-8 Clarification: I do not condone or justify the cancellation of Israel trips by the UAHC. I will bring this matter up at the Reform Zionist (ARZENU) conclave preceding the Vaad Hapoel. Michael Livni

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4981 27 32_Re: Cancellation of Israel Trips13_avi rosenberg16_avi@gezer.org.il31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 11:53:27 +0200412_us-ascii

>I heard on the news that they are now considering cancelling the Maccabiah. >One sports commentator here (the acerbic Arie Meliniak) commented that he >didn't even know that there was supposed to be a Maccabiah, but maybe now >is the opportunity to finally get rid of it, since it's of dubious sports >value and will forever be associated with the tragic bridge collapse of >the last one. [...] 5009 112 21_Part 100 - an apology11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 08:27:23 -0400360_us-ascii aubrey jasper wrote:

> Dear Noam, > > Of course I agree with you that Israelis have > "stooped", on occasion, to actions which are > regrettable and which should not have been done. I > agree with you on many points, as I detailed in my > last letter, which you have attacked, and, just now, > re-attacked with such gusto and eloquence. > [...] 5122 58 33_Re: suggestion on what to do.....22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com30_Thu, 7 Jun 2001 09:23:06 -0500552_us-ascii Two of my B'nai Mitzvah families had planned a trip to Israel this month, and had asked for my advice as to whether or not to go. I have said they should, but now I have changed my mind. Why? Becuase this is their first trip, and I don't think anyone's first trip should be marred by the inevitable fear that will accompany it. Things may get worse before they get better, and I think they should wait until then. Debbie On Wed, 6 Jun 2001 06:27:09 +0200 "Holtzer Family" writes: > I had an interesting chat with a [...] 5181 38 24_not politics; book ideas0_15_Marshlf@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:12:58 EDT222_US-ASCII chevre-- as a well-read group, i pose this question to you: my shule is looking for ideas of books to give as standard bar/bar mitzvah gifts (to replace the ancient "Jewish Catalog"). any suggestions? thanks. lisa 5220 36 28_Re: not politics; book ideas11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:16:27 -0400435_us-ascii



Marshlf@aol.com wrote:

> chevre-- > as a well-read group, i pose this question to you: my shule is looking for > ideas of books to give as standard bar/bar mitzvah gifts (to replace the > ancient "Jewish Catalog"). any suggestions? > thanks. > lisa

Hi Lisa,

I find "Jewish Literacy" (Tannenbaum?) to be a useful reference. Covers the basic literature, holidays and life cycle topics. [...] 5257 38 28_Re: not politics; book ideas0_15_Marshlf@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:20:51 EDT223_US-ASCII thanks, noam. this sunday, a bunch of friends (lynn, new on SPTS) is getting together for pickup softball in bethesda, around 1-ish. family style, kids can play, etc. wanna join in? i'll send you direx.

lisa 5296 16 28_Re: not politics; book ideas0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 09:23:47 EDT367_US-ASCII Jewish Literacy is by Telushkin.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5313 28 59_RE: A note to "my intelligent and expressive friend" Aubrey12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 10:06:18 -0400337_iso-8859-1 Uh... my apologies (too)... just in case anyone thought *I* was calling anyone other than myself, a jerk! I was quoting (you do see the quote brackets, yes?) Debbi who said the line below, and in reply I quoted groucho's famous line....

Hope this helps. Now let's get back to some real insults, I mean discussion. [...] 5342 27 13_Reform/Israel16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:34:55 -0400657_us-ascii Judy Gelman deserves our thanks for taking the trouble to find Eric Yoffe's remarks on the Reform movement's webpage. I agree with her assessment that he only addresses the issue of the children's physical safety. Nonetheless, the program cancellation speaks worlds about the Reform movement's institutional and Zionist commitments. Having rearranged itineraries, etc., maybe Yoffe should have left program cancellation decisions to the parents. (Needless to say, anyone sending their kids on an Israel program now would in any event probably have to sign a release of liability statement.) At this point it would make at least as much sense, [...] 5370 162 25_Re: Part 100 - an apology13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com36_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 07:47:37 -0700 (PDT)576_us-ascii Dear Noam,

Thank you for your gracious letter. I really appreciate it. ( I mean this! No sarcasm is intended.) It was very nice of you.

In addition, I stand corrected. You HAVE agreed with me on various matters.

Shabbat Shalom,

Aubrey --- Noam Stopak wrote: > aubrey jasper wrote: > > > Dear Noam, > > > > Of course I agree with you that Israelis have > > "stooped", on occasion, to actions which are > > regrettable and which should not have been done. I > > agree with you on many points, as I detailed [...] 5533 28 23_Job Openings At Moshava8_Pristoop22_cpristoo@mail.bcpl.net31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 11:06:30 -0400362_us-ascii Habonim Dror Camp Moshava, in Maryland, still needs the following positions for this summer from June 15-Aug 20.

1. Head of the Kitchen 2. Truck Driver (must be 21) 3. Life guard/pool operator 4. Arts and Crafts Specialist

If you are interested please contact us: Rafi Pristoop 410-560-0978 Rafi@nyccah.org Rachel Glaser 410-654-5629 [...] 5562 19 19_Vocolot in New York16_Linda Hirschhorn22_vocolot@mindspring.com31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:11:20 -0700598_us-ascii Dear NY friends- Vocolot will be singing at the Workmen's Circle Women's Yiddish Festival on Sunday evening June 24th. The show is at Damrosch Park (Lincoln Center) and begins at 6 P.M. Admission is free- first come first served. Hope to see you all there - Linda

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5582 34 28_Re: not politics; book ideas0_14_BUBELE@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 17:53:25 EDT129_US-ASCII Noam.....isnt the author you refer to "Telushkin"? I think both books are excellent references.

David Morgenstern 5617 26 28_Re: not politics; book ideas11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 20:11:24 -0400582_us-ascii



BUBELE@aol.com wrote:

> Noam.....isnt the author you refer to "Telushkin"? I think both books are > excellent references. > > David Morgenstern

Yes, thanks. I was at work and was guessing - I knew it started with a T.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5644 22 10_book ideas0_14_Vered4@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Jun 2001 22:38:40 EDT313_US-ASCII Regarding books to give for Bar/Bat Mitzvah gifts - My kids received the double-book set of the Jewish Book of Why. These books are very informative and so easy to understand. I have referred to them many times myself.

Also - Jewish Literacy is a great book to give as a gift (by Telushkin). [...] 5667 74 6_Summer11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Fri, 08 Jun 2001 21:17:25 -0700583_us-ascii Dear Pristoop

I will show this to my daughter and have her contact you immediately, if she is interested in any of the positions.

I'll take this opportunity to answer the correspondence concerning advice not to go to Israel at this time.

I just got back from Israel, having gone for a bat mitzvah (my niece). I had lived for seventeen years in Israel, and my connection is still as strong as ever. My brother has now been in Israel over thirty years, and has a successful business and a successful life. My recent experience is that the people are [...] 5742 48 11_Re: Vocolot0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 01:14:12 EDT944_US-ASCII

Sweet

Wanna Go???

TDK ==================

In a message dated 6/9/01 12:07:21 AM, habonet@shamash.org writes:

<< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:11:20 -0700 From: Linda Hirschhorn To: Basya@mindspring.com, Schechter@mindspring.com, Zev Shanken , Aliyah Kotel , Sonny Ochs , Rikki Lippitz , Ronit Avni <"AVNIR "@LCHR.ORG>, Rabbi Paula Winnig , Eva friedner , Paul Storfer , Judith Tumin , Jewish renewal , habonet , "Gross, Ann" , Debra Gonsher Vinik , Cantor Orene Zeitlin , Daniel Freelander , Cantor Murray Simon Subject: Vocolot in New York [...] 5791 55 23_Re: HABONET digest 190814_Martin Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il30_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:16:32 +0200385_iso-8859-1 9 June 2001

A number of individuals made good statements about a number of subjects in Habonet Digest 1908. I will comment briefly.

1. Micheael Livni states that he does not "" condone or justify the cancellation of Israel trips by the UAHC. I will bring this matter up at the Reform Zionist (ARZENU)conclave... "" Kol HaKavod! Such dissent is important. [...] 5847 52 10_book ideas13_shirley atlas21_lirshnel@iinet.net.au30_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:05:26 +0800284_iso-8859-1 Yes, the Jewish Book of why set is great, as are "great Jewish Women" and "Great Jewish Men" , "The Jewish 100" and Jewish Heroes and Heroines" (by Darryl Lyman) Also, if the kids are sport minded "Great Jews in Sport" or if musically inclined "Great Jews in Music" Shirley 5900 22 0_15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il30_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 15:09:26 +0200623_windows-1255 Israeli radio has just carried an announcement from World Habonim-Dror that all its summer activities this year will take place in Israel. Specifically mentioned were groups coming from South America and South Africa. The US was not mentioned.

What's the story?





------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5923 26 9_Newsflash14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il30_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 15:17:18 +0200424_Windows-1252 Just read a newsflash on the webpage of the Israeli newspaper Ma'ariv. After following the usually horrible newsflashes for weeks, it was uplifting to see the following (translated from the original Hebrew):

"2:11PM The leadership (hanhaga) of the World Habonim-Dror Movement decided to hold their summer activities in Israel as planned and in this way to express their identification with Israel." [...] 5950 56 10_Re: Summer0_18_Yentateleb@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 09:44:08 EDT524_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/9/2001 12:16:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com writes:

> unchallenged living that > they had become soft in spirit, and just didn't have the fiber to stick it > out when the going got a little rough. It also showed that they really > didn't understand the Israeli experience or the Jewish experience, for that > matter. Let 'em turn tail and go home.: > > I don't think it was the children who wanted to go home, but their parents > who insisted they come home. > > 6007 99 22_Israeli Radio Bet News5_yigal18_ysela@inter.net.il30_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 18:28:20 +0200670_windows-1255 Saturday afternoon 9/6/01

At 17:00 and 18:00 today the Israeli Radio Bet transmitted the following news item.I give you a rough translation of its content....

..."The Israeli foreign Ministry is exerting special efforts to convince Jewish Organisations throughout the world not to cancel its summer programs for youth. Following the announcement of the Reform Movement in U.,S.A. (NIFTY) that it was cancelling all it programs in Israel this summer, the Ministry noted with satisfaction that the World Secretariat of Habonim Dror ( a sister movement of Hanor Haoved ve lomed) had announced that ALL its programs in Israel were continuing [...] 6107 65 29_Letters from yoni republished7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il30_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 22:35:10 +0300544_windows-1255 In addition to Marty Goodman's suggestion for bar/bat mitzva book I would suggest the new reprint of the Letters From Yoni, which was published in memory of Yonatan Netanyahu, killed at Antebbe. It is available through the Jerusalem Post, if you can not find it elsewhere. I gave a copy of this book to my nephew and it had a profound positive effect on him and his identity problem. If anyone on this list wants a copy and can not find it in a local bookstore or elsewhere, please contact me and I shall do what I can to get [...] 6173 103 64_Fw: World's Largest Rosh HaShana Card for the Children in Israel7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 00:30:07 +0300675_iso-8859-1 this might be of interest to teachers out there in Habonetland.

----- Original Message ----- From: Rabbi Kalman Packouz To: Rabbi Packouz's ShabbatShalom List Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 6:01 PM Subject: World's Largest Rosh HaShana Card for the Children in Israel



> Here's a chance to make a difference! > > Israel's children are frightened . and our children can make a > difference. > > Since last Rosh Hashanah thousands of Israeli children have seen > their relatives, friends and neighbors killed, injured, and orphaned. > > This Rosh Hashanah an enormous Rosh Hashanah card designed, [...] 6277 117 33_Re: Letters from yoni republished0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Jun 2001 20:09:53 EDT625_ISO-8859-1 Subj: Re: Letters from yoni republished Date: 6/9/2001 5:03:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time From: Mmxmm To: skolnik@netvision.net.il









I'll add my own endorsement of Pearls suggestion regarding 'Letter from Yoni.' Although I read this book when it was first published and my memory of it has faded I do recall it to be a rather remarkable collection of the personal letters/poetry[?] written to his family and friends which chronicle the internal life of an extraordinary person from the ages of 17-30. [...] 6395 93 10_Re: Summer11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:32 -0700635_us-ascii Dear Yentateleb

I am grateful for your help in pinpointing the problem (of lack of identification and understanding for Isarel and Judaism during perilous times). Yes, the parents of those children chose to call them back. Were they correct or mistaken for doing that, in your thinking?

Steve

Yentateleb@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/9/2001 12:16:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com writes: > > "as American kids have had so many years of easy, > >> unchallenged living that >> they had become soft in spirit, and just didn't have the fiber to >> stick it >> out [...] 6489 128 10_Psalms 13712_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:38:41 +0200580_iso-8859-1 Haverot and Haverim,

Doron Rosenblum of Ha'aretz is one of my favorites. The chilling article below appeared on today's front page. Sit down before you read him. Then read Psalm 137 up to verse 6 (the remainder is ugly.)Then dial your travel agent asking to get on an ElAl flight this summer. If Rosenblum is right then you need to get here for a farewell visit before making a shiva call in the fall. Those of us who don't belong to the cuckoo muckoo fringe will do everything humanly possible to pre-empt Doron's grim Jermiad vision and ensure the future [...] 6618 23 28_Re: not politics; book ideas0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 03:00:45 EDT448_US-ASCII Although I, too, love the idea of The Jewish Book of Why and Jewish Literacy, I do not consider The Jewish Catalogue ancient despite some of the very hippy-style 60s ideas in it. It still makes an absolutely wonderful bar/bat mitzvah gift -- all the stuff in it re: customs and ceremonies, challah baking, kippa making, sukkah building, etc. etc. etc. haven't changed since the 60s, and the book is so easy to read and fun to peruse. [...] 6642 28 11_Re: Vocolot0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 03:40:11 EDT488_US-ASCII I don't know who TDK is, but I'll definitely be attending the concert with Linda Hirschhorn and the Vocolot - they are an absolutely fabulous Jewish a cappella group - terrific performers.

If other Habo people are going, it would be fun to meet by the fountain at Lincoln Center at 5:50 and then all go into Damrosch Park together. Steve, can you bring a big sign to hold up that says HABONIM-DROR and then we'll all find each other by looking for you with the sign? [...] 6671 31 26_Re: Israeli Radio Bet News0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 03:47:10 EDT360_US-ASCII Actually, the Reform Movement put into the press a statement that I can't believe intelligent leaders like Eric Yoffe let pass - I'm not quoting exactly, but, in explaining why they were cancelling all programs, they said something along the lines of "We don't believe in our children being political pawns." This is a truly repugnant statement. [...] 6703 293 15_Israel Programs5_yigal18_ysela@inter.net.il31_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:48:10 +0200622_windows-1255 Dear friends,

I am sending you a copy of a letter I sent today by e mail to the 120 members of the Board of Governors of the Jewish Agency. For Your Information

Regards

Yigal Sela



10/6/01

F.A.O. Members of the Board of Governors of J.A.F.I.

Dear Friends,

For those of you who do not know me personally, my name is Yigal Sela and I am a member of the Board representing the W.Z.O. My professional capacity is as Head of the Overseas Dept. of the Kibbutz Movement. Under my jurisdiction are the departments that deal with recruiting and dispatching [...] 6997 25 15_Israel programs0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 09:17:36 EDT278_US-ASCII Is there such a difference between the the kids going on Israel programs today and those of year 1973?? I doubt it. When Kfar Blum was experiencing a bit of bombing, parents rang the phone off the hook to get their kids to come home, and not one left the program. [...] 7023 36 17_Re: Reform/Israel22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 08:46:43 -0500563_us-ascii Sorry, I disagree. Anybody who sends kids on any kind of trip, from a bus ride to the museum to a summer in a country officially on the State Department list of unsafe places to avoid, signs a release. The issue is whether or not the trip remains worthwhile. Once 4/5 of the registrants cancel, and the trip agenda has been changed so much that the value is questionable, other than the political point, what is the point? The kids are scared, the parents are terrified. Free time, weekends off, an afternoon on their own in the city, are canceled. [...] 7060 120 78_Fwd: Bush officials tell Arab-Americans U.S. will rethink arms sales to Israel0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 13:37:12 EDT15_US-ASCII FYI... 7181 50 21_To all LA area chevre0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 15:29:03 EDT632_US-ASCII

I am having a "dessert and coffee" at Don and Stelli Goldman's home in the Valley for Ami Cohen, who will be in LA discussing his "Save a Child's Heart" Foundation on Tuesday evening, June 19th, at 7:30 PM. Ami is a former Habonim chaver whose uncle is Shlomo Cohen; Ami is currently Chief of Pediatric Heart Surgery at Wolfson Hospital in Holon, and his foundation permits him and a staff of doctors to perform heart surgery on children from third-world countries- including the Palestinian Authority,China, Russia, and Ethiopia. Children are operated on completely free of charge- including travel fares,and [...] 7232 30 23_Bar/Bat Mitzvah present11_Judy Zatkin20_jlzatkin@rcf.usc.edu31_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 18:28:04 -0700306_us-ascii A couple of years ago I figured out the best bar/bat mitzvah present. __The 2000 Year Old Man__ by Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks. It's been issued as a 4 CD set by Rhino Records. There is also a fifth, new CD __The 2000 Year Old Man in the Year 2000__. I believe there is also a companion book. [...] 7263 66 10_Re: Summer0_18_Yentateleb@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:52:51 EDT548_US-ASCII That's a hard one to answer. My son was in Israel, sitting in an outdoor cafe in Jerusalem, when a terrorist began shooting. His friend was hit in the leg, which was the worst casualty. He called us immediately and we listened to him. He was very frightened, but said nothing about coming home. He was safe when we found out about the shooting, and so we didn't say anything to him about coming home. I guess I still have that youthful feeling that "nothing will happen to me". Several days later he was talking to a young lady about [...] 7330 61 15_Arab MKs act up7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:03:15 +0300591_iso-8859-1 thought this might interest some of you out there...

ARAB MKs ACT UP > Coalition head Likud MK Ze'ev Boim called upon Public Security Minister Uzi > Landau to instruct the police to arrest Arab MK Azmi Bishara upon his > return to Israel from Syria. Bishara appeared today at a memorial ceremony > in Damascus for the late Hafez Assad - together with Hizbullah terrorist > leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah. In his speech today, Nasrallah said that > Hizbullah will continue its war against Israel, and "will liberate the [Har > Dov] area with blood." At the same forum, [...] 7392 18 19_Re: Israel Programs0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Jun 2001 01:47:45 EDT400_US-ASCII Beautiful letter, Yigal - kol hakavod.

Aliya Cheskis-Cotel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7411 47 17_Re: Reform/Israel11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:26:12 -0700329_us-ascii Ultimately, it should always be a parent's and child's choice. Once the choice is made, no matter what it is, no one has the right to judge. Here, however, the institutions took that choice away and made a very strong political statement in the process: the support for Israel is conditional and terrorism has won. [...] 7459 69 17_RE: Reform/Israel9_Martin S.20_emskol@bellsouth.net31_Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:18:46 -0400368_US-ASCII

> Ultimately, it should always be a parent's and child's choice. Once the > choice is made, no matter what it is, no one has the right to judge. Here, > however, the institutions took that choice away and made a very strong > political statement in the process: the support for Israel is > conditional and > terrorism has won. > > Batel > Chevre [...] 7529 106 62_Fwd: amplification...putting Rabbi Yoffie's remarks in context14_Tana Hemingway16_tanah@zianet.com31_Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:50:39 -0600315_us-ascii Shalom, I feel this message with web connections may be of interest to some of you. Personally I agree with the tone of recent postings that pulling the kids' trips was inappropriate, whatever was said along with that action. But here's the context.

>from a friend who keeps some of us posted: [...] 7636 25 30_Machane Gilboa wants your kids11_Batel Libes19_batel@realmedia.com31_Mon, 11 Jun 2001 16:24:34 -0700322_iso-8859-1 Shalom, With only 20 days left till the start of Machane Gilboa, it's count-down time. If you know of anyone who might want to send their children to the only movement camp that puts its politics where its mouth is, let them know about us--that is all of our machanot. WE WANT YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [...] 7662 43 27_Re: Bar/Bat Mitzvah present29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Mon, 11 Jun 2001 21:19:01 -0400585_iso-8859-1 bravo! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Zatkin" To: Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:28 PM Subject: Bar/Bat Mitzvah present



> A couple of years ago I figured out the best bar/bat mitzvah present. > __The 2000 Year Old Man__ by Carl Reiner and Mel Brooks. It's been issued > as a 4 CD set by Rhino Records. There is also a fifth, new CD __The 2000 > Year Old Man in the Year 2000__. I believe there is also a companion book. > > Several things make this the best bar/bat mitzvah present. First, you can > [...] 7706 119 18_Israel this summer16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 11 Jun 2001 22:30:02 -0400565_us-ascii A while ago I posted an extract by Shimon Kasdai, z"l, madrich of the 16th Workshop from his letter to that Workshop from the 16th Workshop's yearbook. The 16th was in Israel from September of 1966 through August of 1967--during the Six Day War. At that time, the mood in the American Jewish Community was extremely pessimistic. There was what appeared to be a very realistic fear that Nasser & Co. were going to finish Hitler's work. As the crisis in the spring of 1967 worsened, it became clear that the world would do little or nothing in the face [...] 7826 130 23_a cry in the wilderness13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Tue, 12 Jun 2001 15:34:58 -0400622_iso-8859-1 Gideon Levy is, in my view, the most left leaning of Ha'aretz's current roster of political reporters and commentators. I've seen him directly praised by Palestinian writers and activists, in the same level as my former classmate and colleague at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Amira Hass, who now lives herself in Palestinian Ramallah in the West Bank/Palestine (and, as far as I was able to determine, does not reply to emails she receives from Israelis?). The article below is directed to people in this list who are sitting on the current war-time fence/consensus and maybe looking for an opening [...] 7957 235 16_Fwd: Middle East0_15_Elaynbb@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Jun 2001 17:38:56 EDT17_US-ASCII

8193 94 34_Fw: U.N. Sponsors Palestinian Hate8_J Gordon20_mountain@neworld.net31_Tue, 12 Jun 2001 20:58:37 -0700757_Windows-1252

----- Original Message ----- From: "Naomi Ragen" To: "List Member" Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 11:23 AM Subject: U.N. Sponsors Palestinian Hate



> Naomi Ragen - http://www.NaomiRagen.com > > --------------------------- ListBot Sponsor -------------------------- > Get a low APR NextCard Visa in 30 seconds! > 1. Fill in the brief application > 2. Receive approval decision within 30 seconds > 3. Get rates as low as 2.99% Intro or 9.99% Ongoing APR and no > annual fee! > Apply NOW! > http://www.bcentral.com/listbot/NextCard > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Friends, > > Just when you think you’ve seen everything…. > > [...] 8288 41 17_Re: Reform/Israel13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Tue, 12 Jun 2001 21:18:59 -0700 (PDT)420_us-ascii Chevre,

Deborah Tanzer-Cohen is correct. No progressive liberal white parents would have sent their child into a black slum during the violence immediately after the assasination of Dr. Martin Luther King. It simply is not worth the risk to their child. No one would have condemned these parents for seeking to protect their child from a very dangerous, unpredictable, potentially deadly situation. [...] 8330 31 37_Re:sending your child into a slum....14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:28:44 +0200469_iso-8859-1 Dear Aubrey,

Nobody is suggesting that American youth tour Gaza City or Hebron while wearing their "I LOVE ISRAEL" shirts and waving the Israeli flag.....

THAT would be the same as sending white children into a back slum after the assasination of M. L. King.....

Touring Israel, visiting museums like Yad VeSham and the Holocaust Museum, Rabin's grave, Tel Chai, Sde Boker is not the same as wandering into Al Bireh or Rafiach..... [...] 8362 47 38_Re: sending your child into a slum....0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 15:47:59 EDT443_US-ASCII Absolutely, Dave. Seems to me that what you said before - if we and our children can be here so can you (or something like that) makes sense.

I often say that you could be walking across the street and an airplane could fall on your head. But that doesn't keep you at home, at least not most of us. One exercises caution, but if one wants to eliminate all risk, then as far as I'm concerned you might as well stop living. [...] 8410 38 38_Re: sending your child into a slum....14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:01:09 +0200470_iso-8859-1 Dear Debbie et all,

Ok - you're right - living is dangerous. Yes, a plane could fall on your head (more likely in the US from what I hear about the airlines). And don't even start talking about traffic accidents.....

Ok - all you doubters - I got a question: What was the last time an American tourist was killed in Israel in a terrorist attack? For that matter, what was the last time an American tourist was killed in a traffic accident? [...] 8449 19 38_Re: sending your child into a slum....0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 16:47:12 EDT556_ISO-8859-1 This is a conversation about guided tours... right?

Cause if kids or adults are going to have time to wander around on their own their going to have difficulty knowing when they have moved across the invisible border, just as happens here in the states. It can be very scary in both places and very dangerous. The risks are greater for a person from Iowa wandering the streets of Manhattan, than for a long time resident of the City. It may not be nearly as dangerous as the guy from Iowa thinks or fears, but fact is he's much more [...] 8469 39 28_Re: anyone know mollie marx?14_The Bernhardts24_miriam_b@neve-ilan.co.il31_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:58:53 +0300513_us-ascii Brian, There is a Mollie Genderson Marx at Moshav Shitufi Timorim. She was in Habonim in Washington, D.C. in the 40's. She was on one of the early workshops. I may be seeing her in a couple of weeks at a Bar Mitzvah in Timorim. By the way, do you all have a kibbutz phone book in the office? It can be very useful. Miriam Brian Cooper wrote: > > Hi All, > > I keep getting email from Mollie Marx in regard to Habonet or possibly the > Habonim Dror Foundation. I'm not really sure, but my replies to [...] 8509 40 38_Re: sending your child into a slum....0_13_JLCAA@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:23:26 EDT400_US-ASCII The Jewish Labor Committee is one of three sponsors of a program now in its 17th year which educates US public school teachers to teach the Holocaust. In early July wre will be sending our next group of 45 teachers to Poland for a week and Israel for two weeks. Despite multiple warnings to the participants, most of whom are non-Jews, regarding the danger, no one has canceled. Not one! Avi 8550 300 11_Veyes mere!0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:38:05 EDT554_US-ASCII Chevre, Shalom

Are Israelis gonna have the patience for this? Starting all over again from scratch?

Veyes mere!

Please let me know if you have the patience to actually read this thru to the end. We'll come up with some sort of prize.

This is more for a George Carlin stand-up routine. You sign, I sign, won't sign, never signed, arrest now, what arrest? who arrest? when arrest? why arrest? Buffer me. Buffer you. Buffer zone. Buffer-in. Lift the closure. Stop the closure, Seize the closure, close the closure. [...] 8851 38 23_Parental Responsibility13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:44:12 -0700 (PDT)378_us-ascii I agree with Debbie that the parents and children must decide, as it is they who will bear the consequences of the decision. Organizations should not make these broad, major decisions for them.

That was, in essence, my point: no one should criticize them for deciding for themselves whether or not to go, as no one else will bear the consequences for them. [...] 8890 671 68_Fw: Quoted from Gamla...interesting turn of events; Peace Now Leader7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:58:14 +0300579_windows-1255



Peace Now Leader: 'I Feel People Think I'm an Idiot' ****************************************************

In an interview last week with the Jerusalem weekly Iton Yerushalaym, Professor Amiram Goldblum - an associate of Peace Now's National Secretariat and the Head of the movement's Settlement-Watch Team - discussed the disillusionment of Israel's peace camp, supported unilateral separation, called for the annexation of 50% of the settlers, and opposed the Palestinian 'right of return'. Following are excerpts from the interview:(1) [...] 9562 174 26_[Fwd: The Moment of Truth]14_Dori Orenstein14_bd674@lafn.org31_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:48:15 -070017_us-ascii

9737 69 12_[Fwd: typos]14_Dori Orenstein14_bd674@lafn.org31_Wed, 13 Jun 2001 22:49:32 -070017_us-ascii

9807 97 22_Re: Rosh Judaica in LA0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Jun 2001 02:37:13 EDT733_US-ASCII Chevre, Shalom

I trust that Gilboa is already drawing chanichim from this school.

Chaver Steve ======================================

In a message dated 6/14/01 12:13:55 AM, pnai-or-rabbi@shamash.org writes:

<< ------------------------------ From: PFBaugh@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 18:32:24 EDT Subject: Position Opening in Southern California To: "The Pnai Or/Aleph/Renewal Rabbinic List"

Dear Chevre, Howard Haas is an old friend. He has worked as a principal for many years, is a wonderful team player and my guess is that he would make a wonderful boss. The salary range is excellent for this type of position. Best of luck if you are looking for [...] 9905 33 27_Re: Parental Responsibility14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:37:05 +0200387_iso-8859-1 Dear Aubrey,

In your last letter, you agreed with Debbie that it is up to the parents and children to make the decision, Further, you said, "Organizations should not make these broad, major decisions for them."

I think that the organizations should encourage the parents and children to visit - not cancel for them or even to be neutral! This is the point! [...] 9939 60 15_Re: Veyes mere!12_Stan Goldman17_stang@urim.org.il31_Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:15:12 +020079_iso-8859-1 We must have patience. We want peace !!!!! Who said life is easy???? 10000 65 38_Re: sending your child into a slum....12_Stan Goldman17_stang@urim.org.il31_Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:25:47 +0200105_iso-8859-1 Please add some Swiss Cheese to Dave Holtzer's order I will pick it up when I go to lunch Stan 10066 67 27_Re: Parental Responsibility13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Thu, 14 Jun 2001 07:51:19 -0700 (PDT)345_us-ascii Dear Dave,

It's painful to disagree with you at all on this topic, because you clearly show that you, and Carmi, have the courage of your convictions, in that you live in Eretz Yisrael and assume all the blessings,burdens and risks thereof.

I wish the best for you and your family.

With respect and affection, [...] 10134 21 22_The Gidon Levy article11_Don Goelman26_goelman@tiger.csc.vill.edu37_Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:50:55 -0400 (EDT)588_us-ascii Sorry, I didn't find Levy's article so impressive (nor so historically convincing as Gamla's interview). Levy decries national unity as bad in and of itself; and how can he be serious about equating "incitement" in the Israeli and Arab media?

Don

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10156 62 32_áòðééï: anyone know mollie marx?11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 01:07:20 +0300397_us-ascii Dear Miriam,.

Hi Miriam. Long time no heard from. Brian, miriam & I grew up together in the D.C.'s Habonin's chapter and both found our way to Israel, abeit different roads. Miriam, what's the name of the family who's son is having a Bar Mitzvh? Before the date please give us a ring so that we can try to get together. My phone no. is 08-8581824, preferalby in the evenings. [...] 10219 44 53_Re: Parental Responsibility --Holtzer reply to Jasper13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:41:50 -0700618_US-ASCII Hear! Hear! Michael Livni

---------- >From: "Holtzer Family" >To: >Subject: Re: Parental Responsibility >Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 14:37:05 +0200 >

> Dear Aubrey, > > In your last letter, you agreed with Debbie that it is up to the parents > and children to make the decision, Further, you said, "Organizations should > not make these broad, major decisions for them." > > I think that the organizations should encourage the parents and children > to visit - not cancel for them or even to be neutral! This is the point! > > Have we forgotten that [...] 10264 30 31_Children how shall I send thee?12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:28:20 +0200599_us-ascii Haverim/ot In the fifty’s, when Ben Gurion addressed delegations from abroad he frequently ended his talk with the injunction “send us your children.” He felt that Zionists who accepted the centrality of Israel should want at least one child from each family to make aliyah and participate in the grand vision of kibbutz galuyot (ingathering of exiles.) Three notions stick in the throat today and they more than anything else are markers of change: they are the words *should * send and galuyot. Mind you, reportedly even then, one person in the audience told BG, “send you my son; I [...] 10295 75 35_Re: Children how shall I send thee?14_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org31_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 11:46:38 -0400587_ISO-8859-1 Boy, is Amnon klug?! Although didn't someone once say that Kibbutz Galuyot, was the gathering of postcards? Anyway, as one who has made the very long (and too brief) sojourn from LALALand to Haifa, I feel entitled to convey a day-old conversation with one of my klainekeits. As we spoke about the mood and "situation" (that word, these days, is always put in quotes) in Israel, we got around to the inevitable question of how I'd respond if one of my kids (in their 20's-yes, I'm old enough) said they wanted to go to Israel-RIGHT NOW- for a vacation (Nishdugaducht-sp). [...] 10371 26 35_Re: Children how shall I send thee?13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:06:15 -0700 (PDT)635_us-ascii Chevre,

Steve Schreier's story of the pig pointing out that it was not the chicken who was facing the real commitment was brilliantly, and hilariously, on point. It stated exactly my concern, with wit, humor and good nature.

What a pleasure!

Shabbat Shalom to one and all, Aubrey

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10398 143 19_eretz israel hayafa13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:50:36 -0400572_iso-8859-1 Here is a story that reminded me of my own activities in Yesh Gvul when it was just founded, almost 20 years ago. Only that the hero of this story is much more courageous than me, because it appears he has more to loose now than I did then. What beautiful, moral, just, courageous people can the Jewish people raise, even in their more religious orthodox sections! These are my brothers, for whom I am still willing to fight to death for the existence of a shrunk, de-colonized Israel, within its cozy, warm, humble original borders of the 1949 armistice. [...] 10542 33 35_Re: Children how shall I send thee?0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:59:20 EDT539_US-ASCII Amnon..there are two other Ben Gurion Stories that stuck in my head....first, in the twenties, he wrote a long essay in Hebrew in a publication of Chovavai Tzion and asked the Jews of the world to pick up stakes and come to Palistine. His father who was fluent in Hebrew and an avid zionist read the article and sent a letter saying "David I'm very very moved by what you wrote , and I am making plans to pack and your sister and I are coming to Eretz Yisrael." Ben Gurion immediately wrote back and told his father that the [...] 10576 42 35_Re: Children how shall I send thee?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:22:41 -0700575_us-ascii My 12-year-old Habonim daughter got a good laugh out of this one. Apparently I'm on the road to being a Jewish mother in one way or another. What a great compliment.

Shabbat Shalom, Batel

Smfgrappa@aol.com wrote:

> Amnon..there are two other Ben Gurion Stories that stuck in my head....first, > in the twenties, he wrote a long essay in Hebrew in a publication of Chovavai > Tzion and asked the Jews of the world to pick up stakes and come to > Palistine. His father who was fluent in Hebrew and an avid zionist read the > article and sent [...] 10619 121 27_Re: Parental Responsibility13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:12:40 -0400591_us-ascii Dear Chevreh-

The analogy of visiting Israel now to marching in Vietnam protests or to visiting the ghetto after the MLK assassination really bothers me. As a teenager, I marched and protested all the time. It was our favorite peulah. While there was some remote theoretical risk, the number of students killed in all those demonstrations less than a dozen. Tear gas didn't kill and neither did arrest. Wow, we thought we were really brave, but we really weren't risking very much to stand up for our beliefs. Mostly it was a very riskless way to feel brave and radical [...] 10741 128 73_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBzZW5kaW5nIHlvdXIgY2hpbGQgaW50byBhIHNsdW0uLi4u?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:37:24 +0300562_iso-8859-1 Dear Avi,

The following information you sent was of interest to me. Apropos to it: a couple of weeks ago I read the the Jerusalem Post week end edition (1.6.2001, I think) of a small town in Tennessee, where one it's high schools also did a project of the Holocaust. What's remarkable about this is that it's a small town of 1600 pop., where I'd be surprise if there was even one Jew or Jewish family living there. The teachers and the students took the project very seriously and even made a web page in order to publicize their project. [...] 10870 47 30_U.N. Sponsors Palestinian Hate17_Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 10:50:15 +0200635_us-ascii The UN has been attempting to rewrite history for years. I would suggest that the interested reader might take a look at the following UN site:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/45996cc3259e1c9c052567270057ac6f!OpenView&Start=1&Count=1500&Expand=6#6

UNISPAL is supposed to be an official collection of UN documents relating to the Palestine issue. The particular page that I have selected lists all of the documents in this collection relating to 1967. Nearly all of these documents consist of UN activity from June 5, 1967 onward. Only one document relates to anything during the period prior to that date. [...] 10918 209 61_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBQYXJlbnRhbCBSZXNwb25zaWJpbGl0eQ==?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:10:51 +0300583_iso-8859-1 Dear Judith,

I read your read letter, which frankly disturbed me greatly. Although I was born in the U.S.A. (D.C.), I have lived all of my adult life in Israel. I, as a parent ( and grandmother) can understand why people like you are hesitating to sending your children to Israel, at this time. What I cannot agree with is your comparing the situation HERE IN ISRAEL with local outrages that occurred in Black neighborhoods in the U.S.A. Where is the comparison??? What happened in Watts or Detroit or in D.C. was not a situation of fighting for the existence [...] 11128 157 103_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiDh8vDp6e86IHNlbmRpbmcgeW91ciBjaGlsZCBpbnRvIGEg?= =?iso-8859-1?B?c2x1bS4uLi4=?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:13:06 +0300608_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: mollie marx To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 1:37 PM Subject: áòðééï: sending your child into a slum....



Dear Avi,

The following information you sent was of interest to me. Apropos to it: a couple of weeks ago I read the the Jerusalem Post week end edition (1.6.2001, I think) of a small town in Tennessee, where one it's high schools also did a project of the Holocaust. What's remarkable about this is that it's a small town of 1600 pop., where I'd be surprise if there was even one Jew or Jewish family [...] 11286 251 69_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiDh8vDp6e86IFBhcmVudGFsIFJlc3BvbnNpYmlsaXR5?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:30:40 +0300627_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: mollie marx To: Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 2:10 PM Subject: áòðééï: Parental Responsibility



> Dear Judith, > > I read your read letter, which frankly disturbed me greatly. Although I was > born in the U.S.A. (D.C.), I have lived all of my adult life in Israel. I, > as a parent ( and grandmother) can understand why people like you are > hesitating to sending your children to Israel, at this time. What I cannot > agree with is your comparing the situation HERE IN ISRAEL with local > outrages that [...] 11538 177 53_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBlcmV0eiBpc3JhZWwgaGF5YWZh?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 14:49:42 +0300607_iso-8859-1

----- Original Message ----- From: Yuval Warshai To: Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: eretz israel hayafa



> Here is a story that reminded me of my own activities in Yesh Gvul when it > was just founded, almost 20 years ago. Only that the hero of this story is > much more courageous than me, because it appears he has more to loose now > than I did then. What beautiful, moral, just, courageous people can the > Jewish people raise, even in their more religious orthodox sections! These > are my brothers, for whom [...] 11716 220 64_Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=E1=F2=F0=E9=E9=EF?=: Parental Responsibility13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:25:00 -0400304_us-ascii Dear Mollie- I am really perplexed. Please go back and reread what I wrote. I said that going to Israel IS NOT analogous to EITHER going into the ghetto after the riots OR marching in the Vietnam protests, which I said WAS NOT actually dangerous and that I AM sending my child. Judy Gelman [...] 11937 41 35_Re: áòðééï: Parental Responsibility19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 06:28:04 -0700 (PDT)567_us-ascii Judy, What you wrote was beautifully and thoughtfully put and seemed completely on target to me. I'm sorry it was so completely misunderstood. I think Mollie should read your letter again to see that you agree on many points. Orit

--- Judith Gelman wrote: > Dear Mollie- > I am really perplexed. Please go back and > reread what I wrote. I said that going > to Israel IS NOT analogous to EITHER going into > the ghetto after the riots OR > marching in the Vietnam protests, which I said > WAS NOT actually dangerous and > that [...] 11979 309 99_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiDh8vDp6e86IOHy8Onp7zogUGFyZW50YWwgUmVzcG9uc2li?= =?iso-8859-1?B?aWxpdHk=?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:41:56 +0300562_iso-8859-1 Dear Judith,

Thank you for your (prompt) reply, which made me feel as though we were speaking on the phone. I re-read your letter and I've begun to realize that you were replying to someone (am I correct?). Re-reading your letter (of reply) I did find things to agree with. What so disturbed me was comparing a situation of a White person walking down an unfriendly Black neighborhood to an Israeli soldier when caught in the West Bank by our enemies. I do admit that I am a bit over sensitive to our situation in Israel, which puts me of [...] 12289 855 15_The Jewish Week16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 11:03:22 -040098_us-ascii





http://www.thejewishweek.com/bottom/specialcontent.php3?artid=160 13145 50 17_Re: Reform/Israel11_Steve Klein26_kleinsdesigns@socal.rr.com31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:48:48 -0700599_us-ascii Aubrey

You just don't get it.

Steve

aubrey jasper wrote:

> Chevre, > > Deborah Tanzer-Cohen is correct. No progressive > liberal white parents would have sent their child into > a black slum during the violence immediately after the > assasination of Dr. Martin Luther King. It simply is > not worth the risk to their child. No one would have > condemned these parents for seeking to protect their > child from a very dangerous, unpredictable, > potentially deadly situation. > > This is why so many parents will not let their > children go to Israel right [...] 13196 64 33_Im Eshkachech- an answer to Amnon0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 13:50:07 EDT520_US-ASCII

My hands have lost their strength And my tongue can not say the words I want to scream But I have not forgotten- Only got caught up in the circumstances And now, I suffer from the famine of a soul wandering and lost But there are no planes sent for me to bring me back Because my famine is not visible or immediate My extermination is slow and secret And covered in a wrapping of false luxury Easy to say jump on a plane and visit And I long for that- for a peaceful Shabbat along the ocean Of the [...] 13261 88 37_Re: Im Eshkachech- an answer to Amnon0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 15:24:04 EDT326_US-ASCII Sue, Your words were beautiful and heart wrought but I fear that they bring no one including yourself consolation. Let me offer other words in reflection. In the East, in the East is my heart And I dwell at the end of the West... How shall my offering be paid, My vows with performance be crowned? Yehuda Halevi [...] 13350 251 33_Fw: Middle East: call for martyrs7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 23:22:45 +0300566_iso-8859-1 this is the fear I live with.....

> Special Dispatch - Egypt > June 4, 2001 > No. 224 > Egyptian Opposition Weekly Calls for Martyrdom Operations > > Amru Nasif, a columnist for the Egyptian opposition weekly > Al-Usbu', calls for martyrdom operations to defeat Israel > and volunteers to join the ranks of martyrs. Following are > excerpts of his article (1): > > "...with every blow struck by the Al-Aqsa Intifada, my > conviction grows stronger that I, and all those who are of > the same mind, have been right all along and am still right [...] 13602 112 37_Re: Im Eshkachech- an answer to Amnon7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 23:27:57 +0300602_iso-8859-1 great!!! shavua tov, pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: LiberHawke@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 8:50 PM Subject: Im Eshkachech- an answer to Amnon





My hands have lost their strength And my tongue can not say the words I want to scream But I have not forgotten- Only got caught up in the circumstances And now, I suffer from the famine of a soul wandering and lost But there are no planes sent for me to bring me back Because my famine is not visible or immediate My extermination is slow and secret And covered in a wrapping [...] 13715 197 17_who will save us?7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 17 Jun 2001 00:09:18 +0300549_windows-1255 The current debate about sending or not sending children to Israel reminds me of the days before the Gulf War. I could no longer stand to see the huge lines of students and others at the El Al terminal in Jerusalem and at the airport, all leaving Israel before the outbreak of the war. I felt that we were being deserted by those very people who should be the closest to us and remain to suffer whatever we their brethren suffer. I, therefore, made a sign and went and demonstrated against them in front of the El Al offices, from [...] 13913 338 27_Re: Parental Responsibility13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 17:31:25 -0400601_iso-8859-1 Dear Mollie-

I can see why the analogy upset you.

I apologize for not clarifying that I was not making a political analogy. I was replying to a comment I disagreed with by acknowledging a limited resemblance between going into the ghetto during the riots and something that did happen during the Intifata--one group of people killed people from another group with their bare hands and the attack was based only on external appearance. (The beating a few years ago of a white truck driver in LA during the Rodney King riots can be distinguished from the lynch in Ramallah [...] 14252 109 40_Trips to Israel and Conservative Judaism0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:31:03 EDT627_US-ASCII >From the Masorti listserv (Conservative Judaism in Israel)

Trips to Israel and Conservative Judaism Rabbi Michael Graetz

Yesterday my family and I celebrated the fourth birthday of my grandson Itamar Bar-Tuv. There were about 20 other four year olds, and their parents, lots of good food, birthday cake, games, stories and everyone had a fantastic time. The place in which we held this gala event was a public park just behind the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, overlooking the old city. The park is beautiful, lots of grass, benches, big Jerusalem stone sculptures for kids to play on. During the [...] 14362 78 17_A reply to Hiam--0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 18:53:43 EDT559_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/16/01 12:24:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, LHIAM1@aol.com writes:

> Sue your words draw YOU as the victim, forced to live burdened by rent and > circumstance and while there have been a multitude of victims in the last > months I find it difficult to put your suffering in the same category > > Hiam- I CERTAINLY would not compare my "suffering"- whatever that is - to > those who have suffered life and death in Israel- NO NO NO- This is not > about that-and I do not consider myself a "victim" in the "psychological" [...] 14441 24 27_Re: Parental Responsibility0_18_Green88888@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:06:16 EDT530_US-ASCII A few days ago, my younger son and his fiance left for Israel. They made aliya and my son plans to study at Bar Ilan for the year. My husband and I are going to Israel to celebrate my older son's wedding in Jerusalem on August 2nd. About 30 friends and relatives are also coming for the wedding. The person who is arranging the hotel for us recently e-mailed me thanking us for coming and not staying away like so many others Americans. If Carmi and Dave and so many other people on this list can live in Israel, at [...] 14466 42 21_Re: A reply to Hiam--0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com29_Sat, 16 Jun 2001 20:52:11 EDT465_US-ASCII Sue, Mine is NOT a philosophy it is a call to action. Your going to Israel is radically different than someone wishing away illness. Dafka your attitude about wishing you could go but not doing anything about it is really much more similar. My call to action says if you are sick go see a doctor - If you want to go to Israel get on a plane. Don't wait for the doctor to come to you and don't wait for the "Jewish Establishment" to treat your illness. Hiam 14509 77 13_Im Eshkachech0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sun, 17 Jun 2001 03:45:58 EDT467_US-ASCII On 6/16/01, Judy Gelman wrote to Habonet:

<
Shalom Chaver Steve:

In your posting in Habonet Digest 1917, you wrote that in October,

1) "" the American Zionist movement will be holding its Biennial Convention in Israel and electing it's officers. It's also when the Jewish Agency Board of Governors will be meeting .... We could lobby the Board of Governors on behalf of Habonim Dror. And if there were 50 or 60 of us Habonetters at the critical sessions of that Convention, we could take over the American Zionist Movement "". [...] 14660 110 42_The Intifadeh and the Cross-Israel Highway14_Martin Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il31_Mon, 18 Jun 2001 10:45:39 +0200499_iso-8859-1 18 June 2001

Without getting into the politics of the merits of the project, I am enclosing a brief update on the status of the Cross-Israel Highway.

Earthworks are proceeding in the portion of the alignment that stretches from Ben Shemen to the Nesher Cement Plant and southwards towards Mazkeret Batya, Hulda, Yad Binyamin, and Beit Hilquiya. For those of you not familiar with this lovely agricultural area, this is the portion of the road closest to Kibbutz Gezer. [...] 14771 30 31_(A word from the Peanut Galley)0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Jun 2001 21:56:55 EDT581_US-ASCII Not to make light of the importance of supporting Israel through tourism in these troubling times, but please spare me the implication in recent Habonet postings that anyone who really wanted to, really cared, would just "get on a plane and go."

I'm not accusing anyone of malicious intent, I'm not trying to raise a big discussion here, and you better believe I'm not making excuses; I just feel the need to point out that the reality is, even a "good" airfare may be well beyond the means of plenty of Habonetters, and not everyone has the luxury of leaving [...] 14802 69 35_Re: (A word from the Peanut Galley)0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Jun 2001 22:31:07 EDT580_US-ASCII Thank you, Rachel.

Someone asked me offlist why I had never been to Israel. Do you really want to know? Explanations, not excuses. Walk a couple of miles in my nahalayim......sometimes bli sulyot.

I wanted to go on Workshop. Parents didn't want me to; they were not into anything Jewish or Zionist (except the usual, Jewish stuff for birth, death and weddings) and my mother said that she was afraid if I went, I'd never come back. I would marry a nice Israeli boy and that would be it. Who knows.....she could have been right, and I can really relate [...] 14872 24 35_Re: (A word from the Peanut Galley)11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Mon, 18 Jun 2001 20:11:40 -0700545_us-ascii Not to sound disrespectful, but not only does God know, but so do many others on this list. Debbie, you are not alone in this situation.

Batel

> > God knows, if there was a way......... > > Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14897 126 103_=?ISO-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBUcmlwcyB0byBJc3JhZWwgYW5kIENvbnNlcnZhdGk=?= =?ISO-8859-1?B?dmUgSnVkYWlzbQ==?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 19 Jun 2001 19:56:23 +0300491_ISO-8859-1 Hi, Below is a letter from a person I do not know, but, he does express a bit of my general opinion concerning the situation in Israel, today. I hope that you'll also find the letter interesting. Love, Mollie ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 1:31 AM Subject: Trips to Israel and Conservative Judaism [...] 15024 62 25_rolling blackout tomorrow0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Jun 2001 00:24:29 EDT565_US-ASCII This is a great idea. If we all did it once a week, we could sit back and watch both our energy prices and the oilmen's profits decline at the same time. Best of all, we could really decrease our energy usage.

/Susan

P.S. In the canton [state] of Ticino in Switzerland, where my company is located, there is no hot water available during the day. This is a law that the Ticinese people voted on themselves. There is no shortage of energy, or money to pay for energy, in Switzerland; this is simply a conservation measure that the people [...] 15087 63 15_MBI update 6/190_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Jun 2001 00:39:20 EDT447_US-ASCII Ayzeh T'nua!

======================================================

Shalom MBI parents:

I apologize that I have not yet been able to send you the updated itinerary for the MBI program this summer.

Joe is in Israel making the final adjustments and has promised that it will be in my in-box tomorrow morning (Eastern Standard Time).

He asked that I pass on a packing reminder to you and your MBIers. [...] 15151 85 29_RE: rolling blackout tomorrow17_Fisher, Karen E K19_KFisher@Cinergy.com31_Wed, 20 Jun 2001 03:46:31 -0400520_iso-8859-1 OK, I have been doing a lot of lurking because I am new to the Habonet. There is much that I don't know and have wisely just watched and read. I thank all of you for your information. I have not yet been to Israel, indeed only traveled out of the US to adopt my daughters. However when you bring up the energy problems, I can tell you as a worker in an electric generating station, Your rolling black out idea will not work. And no, I don't get a discount. The electricity is bought and sold, If its not [...] 15237 40 29_Re: rolling blackout tomorrow11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 20 Jun 2001 09:01:26 -0400519_us-ascii



"Fisher, Karen E K" wrote:

> OK, I have been doing a lot of lurking because I am new to the Habonet. > There is much that I don't know and have wisely just watched and read. I > thank all of you for your information. I have not yet been to Israel, > indeed only traveled out of the US to adopt my daughters. However when you > bring up the energy problems, I can tell you as a worker in an electric > generating station, Your rolling black out idea will not work. And no, I > don't [...] 15278 52 29_Re: rolling blackout tomorrow0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Jun 2001 11:34:45 EDT363_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/20/01 12:25:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, NEVETS2@aol.com writes:



> Additionally, no > one uses clothes dryers there; clothes are dried by > hanging them on lines outside (although there is a law > that specifies what times of the day it is legal to > hang out your clothes...the Swiss can get a little > anal)! > [...] 15331 33 41_Jerusalem Post Mail Article From A Friend9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net37_Thu, 21 Jun 2001 05:38:40 +0300 (IDT)503_- Hello,

Your friend Norm Kane (normk@earthlink.net) sent you the following article:

Towards the end of this article from the J'lem Post they mention Habonim- Dror and the Israel programs

The pioneer spirit By Leora Eren Frucht

(June 20) - Though one American Jewish family's decision to make aliya at this time has puzzled friends and relatives, the Millmans tell Leora Eren Frucht why they haven't let the situation here deter them from fulfilling their Zionist dream [...] 15365 259 27_Tikkun Olam Job Opportunity0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:05:31 EDT379_UTF-8 So how could an Abba say no?

Chaver Steve

PS Mi hija, Abby, works at the Shefa Fund, as well. We love talking Hebrew and Spanish with each other. ============================================

ABBA-

I know I have sent this to you a zillion times... Here's a zllion and one:

Could you please post this to the Habonet list and any other [...] 15625 64 29_RE: rolling blackout tomorrow17_Fisher, Karen E K19_KFisher@Cinergy.com31_Wed, 20 Jun 2001 23:14:38 -0400541_iso-8859-1 I think that it really depends on how much time you are talking about. if units come off or (that translates to boilers not being needed), the first ones to be effected would be the workers them selves. I can tell you that we have been at a point when the weather is good, Night run(Industry down), and all units would be at the top here in Cincinnati, but all units would be on top because we can make and sell the electricity cheaper than other cities. Would it effect the big guys? maybe but before that happens you would [...] 15690 84 67_Re: 224 million cups of food and counting. Please keep on clicking!0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Jun 2001 00:17:00 EDT452_US-ASCII Chevre, please

Go to the Hunger Site and see just how quick and easy it is to click and cause food to be donated to hungry people around the world.

http://www.thehungersite.com

Then, when you see how easy it is, please consider joining me and all those who have made the Hunger Site our home page so that the first thing we do upon signing on every day is take the two seconds to click to reduce hunger in the world. [...] 15775 18 41_Visiting Israel and exploring the DC area17_Annette Bar-Cohen28_annette_barcohen@hotmail.com25_Thu, 21 Jun 2001 08:05:41 15794 65 45_Re: Visiting Israel and exploring the DC area16_Judith R. Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:03:40 -0400576_us-ascii Dear Annette- I live in DC and am active Jewishly. Before you lock yourselves into a Conservative shul, many of which happen to be in extreme upheaval due to a number of different reasons (eg. BethEl is in the midst of a huge scandal over the Rabbi's Discretionary Fund and the rabbi is under criminal investigation, Har SHalom passed over a much loved asst rabbi and there is a huge split going on, Ohr Kodesh is razing its building in the Fall to rebuild which isn't a real problem but inconvenient, Bnai Israel is transitioning from its retiring senior rabbi [...] 15860 22 45_Re: Visiting Israel and exploring the DC area0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Jun 2001 00:51:10 EDT543_US-ASCII Tifereth Israel is also interesting, with very interesting District-living members, and noone has mentioned Fabrengen, the closest to a Habonim chevreh and one of the earliest Havurot in America. If you're bound for the suburbs, and like Reform congregations, there's a congregation where Sue Roehmer, a Habo alumna, has been the inspiring Chazan for many years but she's retiring from the position - nonetheless, her style will stay on; last, there's a congregation where David Schneyer of the Fabrengen Fiddlers is the Chazan. [...] 15883 86 41_Only to Habonetters would this make sense0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Jun 2001 01:22:42 EDT394_US-ASCII Consider this scene not too unlike the scene in Ionesco's The Bald Soprano:

It is 88 degrees and 100 percent humidity in New York City. I jump onto a train to go to Westchester County, north of New York, and sink into a sticky vinyl seat, realizing that, somehow, the airconditioning is not working. I turn to the friendly woman next to me and say, "The air isn't working? [...] 15970 53 21_exploring the DC area0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Jun 2001 05:32:20 EDT354_US-ASCII In a message dated 6/21/01 9:52:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, SC523@aol.com writes:

<< Tifereth Israel is also interesting... and noone has mentioned Fabrengen, the closest to a Habonim chevreh and one of the earliest Havurot in America....last, there's a congregation where David Schneyer of the Fabrengen Fiddlers is the Chazan. >> [...] 16024 105 45_Re: Only to Habonetters would this make sense7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 22 Jun 2001 08:59:10 +0300415_iso-8859-1 "a typical happening for Habonetters," except that the woman you write about is NOT from the sixth workshop. I know the name and think I also met her at the kumsitz last year, but she is mistaken about which workshop she was on. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, June 22, 2001 8:22 AM Subject: Only to Habonetters would this make sense [...] 16130 20 23_Re: HABONET digest 192212_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 23 Jun 2001 08:31:27 +0200466_us-ascii Haverim/ot What a wonderful treat for shabbat. Yesterday's digest was all upbeat, full of haverschaft and no fighting.

Amnon

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16151 20 45_Re: Only to Habonetters would this make sense11_Sam Bergman22_bergman@mindspring.com31_Sat, 23 Jun 2001 04:44:47 -0400556_us-ascii Aliya, your cousins Feivel and Joycie are from the 3rd and 4th. ..Sam

>I: You must know my cousins Joycie and Feivel from the 4th and 5th - I'm the >age of 16th; my kids are 47th and 50th. What's your name?



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16172 70 45_Re: Visiting Israel and exploring the DC area0_15_DenaSol@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Jun 2001 11:08:08 EDT592_US-ASCII Dear Annette and anyone ele moving into the area:

I have never participated in any of the lively discussions, but I feel the need to respond to Judy Gelman's assessment of the area's synagogues. Shame on Judy Gelman for not giving you on the complete low-down. Shame on Judy Gelman for disparaging other congregations. Shame on Judy Gelman for not revealing that she's on the executive commiitte of Adat Shalom. Judy Gelman could have responded to you privately, but because she decided to use this public forum, I felt obligated to respond to her pitch for Adat Shalom. [...] 16243 34 19_Re: Which Workshop?0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Jun 2001 23:18:20 EDT343_US-ASCII

In a message dated 6/23/01 12:09:32 AM, Pearl Skolnik writes to Habonet:

<< "a typical happening for Habonetters," except that the woman you write about is NOT from the sixth workshop. I know the name and think I also met her at the kumsitz last year, but she is mistaken about which workshop she was on. pearl >> [...] 16278 25 45_Re: Only to Habonetters would this make sense0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 00:54:23 EDT440_US-ASCII Thanks Sam and Pearl - Pearl's find about Tova (that she forgot her own Workshop number and was 5th and not 6th) would explain why I was one off about Feivel and Joycie - they were thus 3rd and 4th - I knew they were slightly older than Tova. Whoa -- remember when Habonet had just a few people on it, such mistakes did not happen, and there was no Peoplefinder to use to make the corrections???These are different times, eh? [...] 16304 26 23_Performance this Sunday0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 01:05:11 EDT510_US-ASCII Dear New Yorker Habonetters,

Habonim alumna Linda Hirschhorn and her group, Vocolot, are my favorite Jewish a cappella group and are flying all the way from San Francisco to perform (no charge) in Damrosch Park behind Lincoln Center tomorrow, Sunday , June 24th, at 6 PM. The concert program is full of very talented Yiddish performers like Adrienne Cooper (wonderful vocalist) and Alicia Svigals (violinist who taught Itzchak Pearlman to play klezmer) and it is being held rain or shine. [...] 16331 31 20_Re: Synagogues in DC0_14_SOkun1@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 10:26:02 EDT598_US-ASCII I missed the original entry and response about synagogues in the DC area, but just wanted to mention that after a lot of research and one disappointing year at Temple Beth Ami in Rockville (way too large, too many people concerned about material things, etc.), we are members of Temple Emanuel in Kensington. We find the community is very liberal and filled with genuinely nice people, the new education director is committed to some positive changes which the religious school needed, and we really like Rabbi Stone. The synagogue will have a new cantor this year, which is a little [...] 16363 105 23_Re(2): Synagogues in DC14_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org31_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:08:32 -0400598_ISO-8859-1 Although I've seen them, I haven't really followed the entries about the DC synagogues. But had an epiphany (is that appropriate to synagogue talk?) about something that I thought would be interesting to share. My last personal contact with DC syns was in 1969 or1970, while at Mosh, using the time to do some research for a Masters dissertation at the U. of Brit Col (I know that makes a lot of sense) on a DC group called Jews for Urban Justice. Being, anti-religious, anti-establishment, anti-world, and anti-uncle, I did not think much of the established religious world in DC, [...] 16469 16 27_Re: Re(2): Synagogues in DC0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 12:53:45 EDT343_US-ASCII



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16486 43 45_Re: Only to Habonetters would this make sense7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 08:45:14 +0300429_iso-8859-1 Aliyah: I didn't use the peoplefinder cause I don't know how. I was on the sixth workshop, so I simply knew that Tova was not from my workshop. I am not a technocrat! Maybe I shall one day catch up with technology. I doubt it. shavua tov! pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 24, 2001 7:54 AM Subject: Re: Only to Habonetters would this make sense [...] 16530 28 27_Re: Re(2): Synagogues in DC0_15_Moshava@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 14:07:46 EDT71_US-ASCII stuart weinblatt is at bnai tzedek congregation in potomac md. 16559 32 30_the wonderful mixup over "Tova14_Tova Silverman26_tova@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il37_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 01:27:43 +0300 (IDT)557_-

"Dear all,

I am more than aware that I was on the 5th workshop and have been in touch with friends from there for years. Unfortunately, I never spent time in a Habonim camp except for the pre-workshop sessions that were held in Red Hook. That was in deed a very hot day but I had spent it in a luncheon with the Jewish NGOs something perhaps Habonim could get involved with. The UN might not seem important but it is definately very important especially for Jews all over the world. You might think that Zionism equals racism is gone, [...] 16592 17 27_Re: Performance this Sunday0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:43:05 EDT428_US-ASCII do you know of any other interesting things I might check out between this Tues and next Sun?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16610 23 27_Re: Performance this Sunday0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Jun 2001 23:46:03 EDT553_US-ASCII

In a message dated 6/24/01 10:43:43 PM, AvivaMT@aol.com writes:

<< do you know of any other interesting things I might check out between this Tues and next Sun? >>

Sorry, that was meant for Aliya!

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16634 30 45_Re: Only to Habonetters would this make sense0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 00:21:38 EDT88_US-ASCII Feivel and Joyce were on the Mercaz Klita with my family and I Sept-Feb 1, 1969 16665 57 20_Re: Synagogues in DC11_Roslyn Lang20_Langr@georgetown.edu31_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 10:03:49 -0400 16723 25 20_Re: Synagogues in DC22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 09:38:40 -0500483_us-ascii I know nothing about the Rabbi problems at Har Shalom, and very little about other shuls in the DC area, but I can add to the Har Shalom review that the hazzan there is a very sweet guy, with a pleasant voice, not operatic at all. Debbie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. [...] 16749 40 19_Angels among us....0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 20:55:13 EDT603_US-ASCII Steve's posting about the rabbi gave me goose bumps. I am often amazed at the quality of Habonim people. Last Tuesday evening, I sat in the home of a producer friend, along with about 10 other people, as we listened to Ami Cohen describe his experiences with his "Save a Child's Heart" Foundation, which offers free heart surgery and after-care to children of third world countries and originates out of Wolfson Hospital in Holon. In the past five years, Ami has operated on close to 700 children, and has trained physicians, surgeons and nurses in these countries- which include Ethiopia [...] 16790 30 23_Re: Angels among us....14_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org31_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 21:43:58 -0400577_ISO-8859-1 I just read Susie's (whoop, sorry, Susan's" e-mail, and, assuming she's right about the coincidence and percentage of Habo folks to angels..... How about more of a coincidence, that she probably doesn't know. Both Stuart and Ami were at Mosh together in the late 60's, and, could have been in the same schichva , and maybe even the same tzrif. They were some summers. I'm not technically tuned to ensure that Ami and Stuart both see our e-mails....but, if someone out there knows how to get it to them, it'd be a nice kind of Mosh re-reunion....one year later. [...] 16821 28 27_Re: Re(2): Synagogues in DC0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:46:09 EDT538_US-ASCII I just want to disagree with Steve about one thing - rabbis do help take care of people who need the kind of help his friend did when the husband was so ill. Our congregation - Beth El - despite lots of other problems, happens to be near the National Institute of Health campus, and it has always been a tradition that the rabbi, both the former and the present ones, are often called to spent time with families with members there for the 'long haul' or for the end stage. It isn't an easy assignment, but they consider it [...] 16850 38 9_ami & stu0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 22:50:05 EDT349_US-ASCII as a young mosh hanicha in the days when ami and stu were madrichim, i remember both of them going out of their way to find the lost sheep among us, and encourage those who were filled with teenage angst. of course i also remember singing "ami cohen ami cohen ami cohen's high" to the tune of am yisrael chai.....(not that he ever....) lisa 16889 30 13_Re: ami & stu0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:14:42 EDT152_US-ASCII I remember that Ami supported Nixon in the '72 election and I remember Stu throwing a milkshake into a madricha's face during a yom capitalism. 16920 50 27_On Beth El (a DC synagogue)13_Judith Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 00:26:46 -0400452_us-ascii Dear Chevreh-

I want to publicly apologize to one of our chevreh who was upset with my characterization of Beth El's recent tsouris. I am not passing judgment on Rabbi Jonathan Maltzman in the dispute over his discretionary fund. He is very close to several people I know and they defend his integrity completely. His defenders in the congregation include Thomas Friedman and many other nationally recognized Jewish intellectuals. [...] 16971 36 27_Re: Re(2): Synagogues in DC0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 01:23:23 EDT341_US-ASCII This is all in conflict with the Rabbi I worked for for a very brief period, Rabbi Mordecai Finley (Trudy Litt- FYI)- who refused to counsel a MEMBER of his own congregation when her father died because her father wasn't a member!!! ( so she quit). I suppose there are all kinds of rabbis just liek there are all kinds of people...s 17008 98 32_A hopeful sign (in the long run)13_Joel Winograd15_mail@jelaco.com31_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 09:58:53 -0500684_ISO-8859-1 >From the Beirut Daily Star, courtesy of Haaretz: _______________________ Tuesday, June 26, 2001 Heads in the sand

The Daily Star (Beirut)

Beauty pageants are at best a useless diversion and at worst a craven objectification of women. Nonetheless, events such as the Miss Universe contest attract international attention, which is why virtually every year, the Lebanese entrant ("delegate" is the laughable official term) is asked whether she will shake hands with her Israeli counterpart; and why, with equal regularity, it is somehow considered newsworthy when Miss Lebanon says "no." As usual, the frivolity associated with this year's edition of the [...] 17107 29 41_More Help- Ben Hecht and "A Flag is Born"0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:01:51 EDT583_US-ASCII HI- An interesting story. In February of 1947, Ben Hecht's play, "A Flag is Born" was performed at the Maryland Theatre in Baltimore becuase he refused to have it performed at the National in WAasington since it was segregated. The Maryland opened its doors and ten blacks (negroes, at the time) bought tickets and it was the first time that a theatrical experience was integrated, "A Flag is Born" was written to raise money for ships, and in the end rasied about $1,000,000. It was a project of the group headed by Will Rogers Jr. which oppoesed the "secrecy" stance [...] 17137 51 49_=?iso-8859-1?B?4fLw6envOiBTeW5hZ29ndWVzIGluIERD?=11_mollie marx25_ericmoli@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 22:57:29 +0300373_iso-8859-1 Hevra, Shalom

My name is Mrs. Mollie Marx and I've recently subscribed to Habonet. I did this because of my warm feelings for Habonim(Dror) and the Workshop. I come from Washington, D.C. and grew up in Habonim and went to Camp Moshava. I came to Israel on the 2nd Workshop in 1952, which was such a wonderful experience that I decided to make alyia. [...] 17189 29 17_Digital Projector0_13_Ezrox@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 00:43:38 EDT620_ISO-8859-1

Dear Habonetters,

This is Ezra Weinberg here, (Workshop 43 and past worker for the Habonim Dror Foundation)

Before I head back to Israel, I'm going to be doing a presenation of Kvutsat Yovel (HDNA's newest Urban Kibbutz in Jerusalem)to the Habonim Dror Machanot this summer.

I have a power point presentation that I want to use straight from my laptop that dipicts our communal life and a possible direction for Habonim hagshama in the new mellenium. My only problem is projection. I need to find a digital projector to connect up to the laptop. I was wondering if anyone on [...] 17219 38 23_Re: HABONET digest 192514_Martin Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il31_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 12:24:51 +0200487_iso-8859-1 26 June 2001

Shalom Richard,

In Habonet Digest 1925, you wrote, "" I remember that Ami supported Nixon in the '72 election and I remember Stu throwing a milkshake into a madricha's face during a yom capitalism. ""

When I attended HaBonim camp Moshava in Annapolis about thirty years ago, I was oftimes an obnoxious, hard to like kid. Inspite of that, the virtual HaBonim community has welcomed me and never thrown my youthful peccadillos in my face. [...] 17258 30 23_Re: HABONET digest 19250_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 03:13:40 EDT152_US-ASCII I have tremendous respect for both of them. I also remember that Stuart was one of the funniest people in the world and Ami was a great hitter. 17289 24 26_Re(2): HABONET digest 192514_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org31_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:25:15 -0400486_ISO-8859-1 And Richard played a mean third base





----------------------- Steve Schreier, Consultant American Technion Society 818-222-5775

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 17314 26 23_Re: HABONET digest 192511_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 10:35:07 -0400608_us-ascii



Steve Schreier wrote:

> And Richard played a mean third base

In chotrim? Or at the reunion? Or perhaps you are thinking of Richard Sprecher (another of the funniest people in the world)?

All I know is Mel Gilbert would have caught it...

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 17341 19 45_Re: More Help- Ben Hecht and "A Flag is Born"0_18_DLerner569@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:39:33 EDT442_ISO-8859-1 Hi, I was at a conference yesterday that included a very thought provoking presentation by the curator of the local historical society. It was amazing to see the pieces of history that the organization had collected and catalogued. With this experience fresh in mind I thought you might check the local historical society in Baltimore, they could have a script, reviews, who knows what. Good luck - sounds interesting. Dennis [...] 17361 58 31_brothers, softball and old mosh0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:51:54 EDT343_US-ASCII Steve Schreier wrote:

> And Richard played a mean third base

In chotrim? Or at the reunion?

Steve is thinking of my brother, Paul, who played third base.

(This is not to say that Noam forgets that I played a mean catcher and pitcher in chotrim, bonim, KMbet and as a madriach and later truck driver.) [...] 17420 34 35_Re: brothers, softball and old mosh0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 14:58:17 EDT221_US-ASCII i for one can vouch for noam's current softball voracity. he plays a mean left field, and his incredible sliding catches have earned him 1st string status. check us out, richard, this thursday in beltsville! lisa 17455 28 35_Re: brothers, softball and old mosh11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 15:43:07 -0400333_us-ascii Richardrdsmith@aol.com wrote:

> ... > > (This is not to say that Noam forgets that I played a mean catcher and > pitcher in chotrim, bonim, KMbet and as a madriach and later truck driver.) > > Et tu Noam?

Well I know you played a mean truck driver, and set the Iron Man record for consecutive seasons :-) [...] 17484 81 23_Re: HABONET digest 192529_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:20:34 -0400481_iso-8859-1 great hitter?? couldn't he and one of the sprechers win a game on their own?? -esther (either on the sidelines or wild defensive nothing) cohen mosh 70 - 75+ ----- Original Message ----- From: Richardrdsmith@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2001 3:13 AM Subject: Re: HABONET digest 1925



I have tremendous respect for both of them. I also remember that Stuart was one of the funniest people in the world and Ami was a great hitter. 17566 55 45_Re: More Help- Ben Hecht and "A Flag is Born"29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Tue, 26 Jun 2001 16:26:05 -0400481_iso-8859-1 another recommendation is "www.helenhayes.org, the premiere site about professional theatre in the Washington, DC, metropolitan area. This site is a free service of The Helen Hayes Awards, an organization named for the legendary First Lady of the American Theatre and Washington, D.C. native, Helen Hayes. More than just the annual awards presentation, the organization honors, celebrates, and promotes excellence in the professional theatre. Explore the links..." [...] 17622 54 32_Habonim Graduates who are Rabbis0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 16:56:49 EDT379_US-ASCII Folks:

The Habonim Dror Foundation is compiling a list of Habonim graduates who are Rabbis. This is part of an overall effort to demonstrate our involvement in the Jewish community at large. It would be useful if you could send me names, demonination and if they are working as a congrational, Hillel, chaplain or educating rabbi, where they are doing this. [...] 17677 30 42_A special thanks and some more history....0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 19:26:47 EDT545_US-ASCII Dear Chevre- Thanks for all the help with the sites. The story of "A Flag is Born " is so interesting. It turns out it was not published by any regular publisher- only by the American League for a Free Palestine (we think they only made enough copies for the cast and crews)- which was 0connceted with Begin and the Irgun in rasing money for boats and guns. The only copies I have found are one in a special collection at Lincoln Center- which is in a collection donated bythe director with script notes (it was a typed script and [...] 17708 32 35_Re: brothers, softball and old mosh19_Orit Lowy Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 17:00:36 -0700 (PDT)307_us-ascii Where and when in Beltsville?

--- Marshlf@aol.com wrote: > i for one can vouch for noam's current softball > voracity. he plays a mean > left field, and his incredible sliding catches > have earned him 1st string > status. check us out, richard, this thursday in > beltsville! > lisa > [...] 17741 22 36_Re: Habonim Graduates who are Rabbis22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 21:39:44 -0500613_us-ascii And what are we cantors - chopped liver? Debbie ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 17764 40 46_Re: A special thanks and some more history....9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 20:03:18 -0700325_us-ascii Ben Hecht wrote another book title "Perfidy" which accusses Ben Gurion and the Labor Zionist establishment of active collaboration with the Nazis before and during the war. I could not bring myself to read the entire book. I think Ben Hecht must have hated the Labor Zionists as much as the Nazis, if not more. [...] 17805 28 36_Re: Habonim Graduates who are Rabbis0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:48:46 EDT51_US-ASCII And what about Jewish Communal workers???? 17834 34 46_Re: A special thanks and some more history....0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Jun 2001 23:50:33 EDT282_US-ASCII He also wrote a book called "I Hate Actors"- so it seems "hate" was a big part of his personality...Despite this craziness- the history of the play is interesting in that it broke the color barrier in theater in Maryland- and was a vehicle for the young Marlon Brando...sue 17869 24 14_Ami and Stuart12_Honor Family18_jnhonor@rcknet.com31_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:21:50 -0400601_us-ascii I know that I would have voted for Stuart for President or whatever he was campaigning for, and that Ami played piano for musicales

Marty--

I don't think Richard was throwing youthful peccadilloes up to anyone, just remembering times past.

Naomi

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 17894 21 23_Re: HABONET digest 19250_13_SC523@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 00:34:34 EDT583_US-ASCII I must have missed an email or two because I am totally confused - I have been trying for several days to figure out who Ami and Stu are - Marty or Richard, can you give last names and a bit about what makes them distinguished?

Thanks, Aliya

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 17916 25 16_seeing double...0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 01:15:39 EDT671_US-ASCII No pressing issue here, I'm just curious: An awful lot of Habonet emails appear with the text duplicated directly below itself, sometimes in different fonts and/or colors (excerpted example below). Is this generated during outgoing or incoming?

Rachel

from Lisa: >

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 17942 21 20_Re: seeing double...0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 01:37:47 EDT405_US-ASCII Well that was freaky-- what I pasted in as my example was a truncated version of Lisa's email, which showed up on my screen in black 10 point 'Arial,' then directly below that it was repeated in lavender 12 point 'News Gothic,' but the 2nd part didn't show up when I opened my own email from Habonet. Is my computer hallucinating, or did others also get the lavender letters the first time? [...] 17964 404 18_Worth considering?0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 03:45:54 EDT327_UTF-8 Chevre, Shalom

Sorry for the length of this piece, but I thought that with the Cease fire entering it's critical stage and the need for some hope and direction for we peace warriors critical, as well, that pieces such as these might demonstrate what may come out of the current situation, if we're all lucky. [...] 18369 52 36_Re: Habonim Graduates who are Rabbis0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 15:55:01 EDT366_US-ASCII Folks:

OK, OK, let me explain....

First of all, I certainly wasn't trying to insult anyone who isn't a rabbi. I wasn't trying to demean the contribution of other Habonim graduates to American Jewish communal life, be they cantors, Jewish communal workers or lay people. It simply served my purpose at the moment to have a list of Rabbis. [...] 18422 32 27_Re: Re(2): Synagogues in DC0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:08:03 EDT174_US-ASCII I think that we should refrain from "Lashon Harah" when speaking about synagogues and/or rabbis. It is possible to do a critique of a schul w/o going there (gossip). 18455 240 26_professorial pronouncement13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:28:52 -0700 (PDT)410_us-ascii Dear Steve,

The good professor's statement that an Israeli govt. must START negotiating at the bargaining point at which the Arabs rejected the best deal ever, and started a low-intensity war instead, is flawed.

No Israeli political leader is likely to do that, based on what befell Barak, and on the vicious, genocidal violence in which the Arabs have so enthusiastically engaged. [...] 18696 42 35_Re: brothers, softball and old mosh0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:32:49 EDT350_US-ASCII hi orit-- we play double headers starting at 6:30. the field complex is called fairland. if you get off 95 at rte 198 west, go a mile or 2 and turn left on old gunpowder rd (there's a traffic light there). go about 2 miles, fields are on your right. can't miss the big tennis bubble and fields. we are on field #3, wearing red jerseys. [...] 18739 33 9_Mea Culpa13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:40:11 -0700 (PDT)367_us-ascii All right, I admit it.

I erred. Mea Culpa. I intended to send my prior email privately to chaver Steve. To my dismay, I find I sent it to habonet.

I did not wish to antagonize anyone, publicly or privately. My apologies to anyone offended.

On Yahoo, is there a way to undo an email sent in error? If so, please let me know. Thanks. [...] 18773 16 12_Lashon HaRah0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:41:32 EDT471_ISO-8859-1 The queston is, however, what if there ARE evil and negative things happeining around a certain shul or Rabbi? Isn't it our duty to speak the truth? When is it better to keep quiet and avoid what you may call "lashon HaRa" in place of exposing evil people? I vcan give you some examples from my recent work history wherein keeping silent would lead to more people being treated by a Rabbi an dhis wife like they were poeple with no values or worth....Sue [...] 18790 37 16_Re: Lashon HaRah0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:54:59 EDT574_ISO-8859-1 Good point, Sue. A few years ago when we were developing a comprehensive education program on family violence for the Jewish community in Pittsburgh, lashon hara came up quite often as a reason people gave for:

not reporting child abuse not intervening with sexual abuse, sexual assault, and/or domestic violence

Since we involved a number of rabbis from all denominations in our planning and discussions (interestingly, the yeshiva teachers seemed to be among the most receptive), what we came up with was the preservation of life and health. [...] 18828 58 30_Re: professorial pronouncement11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:13:15 -0400363_us-ascii Dear Aubrey,

Despite your stated disregard for the views of anyone on the list other than Steve on this topic, I will respond. I hope this will not waste your time.

I believe your reading of the good professor's suggestion is flawed. As I read it, he is suggesting this as a starting point for a Palestinian proposal for a settlement. [...] 18887 191 21_Bona fides for peace?16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:21:32 -0400350_us-ascii I forward the following piece in response to Steve Weinberg's post of Jerome Siegel's proposal. I don't, perhaps, feel as betrayed as Haim Shur. But Siegel seems to me--in light of recent events--far too too naive. Habonet, bring on the sturm und drang! ELIHU

MEMRI: Veteran of Israel's Left Calls Arafat an Arch-Liar & Murderer [...] 19079 54 30_Re: professorial pronouncement13_aubrey jasper22_aubreyjasper@yahoo.com37_Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:05:23 -0700 (PDT)423_us-ascii Dear Noam,

I was not surprised to hear from you on this matter. Although I was not looking forward to it, I was sort of curious as to what you might say.

A Palestinian Arab spokesman has already said, several weeks ago, as reported in the NY Times, I believe,that the PLO wants to START with Barak's rejected offer, and use it as a FLOOR from which to extract even more concessions from Israel. [...] 19134 47 25_Re: Bona fides for peace?11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:07:39 -0400333_us-ascii



"Elihu D. Davison" wrote:

> I forward the following piece in response to Steve Weinberg's post of > Jerome Siegel's proposal. I don't, perhaps, feel as betrayed as Haim > Shur. But Siegel seems to me--in light of recent events--far too too > naive. Habonet, bring on the sturm und drang! > ELIHU [...] 19182 68 30_Re: professorial pronouncement11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:30:18 -0400303_us-ascii aubrey jasper wrote:

> ... > > A Palestinian Arab spokesman has already said, several > weeks ago, as reported in the NY Times, I believe,that > the PLO wants to START with Barak's rejected offer, > and use it as a FLOOR from which to extract even more > concessions from Israel. > [...] 19251 18 16_Re: Lashon HaRah0_15_DenaSol@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Jun 2001 17:13:04 EDT521_US-ASCII Thank you, Sue. I also don't see what's wrong with expressing negative views -- how else do you get perspective on anything -- rabbis, synagogues, applicants for employment, restaurants.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Network http://shamash.org A service of Hebrew College, offering online courses and an online MA in Jewish Studies, http://hebrewcollege.edu/online/ ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 19270 95 30_How to order Letters from Yoni7_Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 30 Jun 2001 21:48:38 +0300414_windows-1255 The book "Letters from Yonaton Netanyahu" can be ordered thusly:

1. internet: www.jpoststore.com 2. email: orders@jpost.co.il 3. phone: In israel: 02-531-5496 In U.S.A.:1-312-321-2906 4. fax: In Israel: 02-537-8372 In U.S.A.:1-312-321-9652 or Mail: In Israel: The Jerusalem Post Books, POB 81, Jerusalem 91000 In U.S.A.: c/o Chicago Sun Times, Rm 334, 401 N.Wabash.Ave., Chicago, Il 60611 [...]