1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet September 2000 2 26 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_15_NYMamma@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:57:07 EDT542_US-ASCII Dear Jack, Trust me. Kinder Ring is the Workmen's Circle Camp, in Hopewell Junction, N.Y., located on Sylvan Lake. That land also was occupied by a family resort also run by the Workmen's Circle , but it was seperate from Kinder Ring. I spent many of my early latency years at Circle Lodge, as the family camp was called, and I was a camper at Kinder Ring for 2 years prior to my going to Naaleh. When I was at Naaleh, we would have intercamp sports with Boiberik, with their campers coming to Naaleh and we going to their camp [...] 29 660 23_Re: HABONET digest 164117_yoninamatz lamdan20_yoninamatz@yahoo.com37_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:24:38 -0700 (PDT)633_us-ascii

--- Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh wrote: > > HABONET Digest 1641 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: Your Admired Column > by "Amnon Hadary" > 2) RE: 100 Years of togetherness > by Brian Cooper > 3) Re: Camp Kinderwelt? > by JackNusan@aol.com > 4) Re: Camp Kinderwelt? > by JackNusan@aol.com > 5) Re: Camp Kinderwelt? > by JackNusan@aol.com > 6) Re: Camp Kinderwelt? > by JackNusan@aol.com > 7) Re: Camp Kindewelt > by JackNusan@aol.com > 8) Re: Camp Kinderwelt? > by JackNusan@aol.com > 9) Re: CAMP KINDERVELT > by [...] 690 16 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_15_Emabear@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:48:16 EDT403_US-ASCII I attended Camp Kinneret, the Habonim camp, in Chelsea from 1952 until it was closeed and Midwest Camp Habonim opened in Three Rivers. I think it was 1954 or 55 but I'm not sure.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 707 17 6_Poster11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Fri, 1 Sep 2000 09:04:36 -0500316_us-ascii In Thursday's New York Times there was a Hebrew Gore-Lieberman poster in Hebrew from Portland Ore. Could anyone tell me where I could get a copy of that poster for my school? We have an election special day in November and I would like to obtain a copy of the Hebrew poster if possible. Thanks, Rozzie [...] 725 25 25_Re:Reunions and histories0_18_Judithb253@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Sep 2000 10:32:37 EDT573_US-ASCII Way back in 1947 (I think) there was a precursor to KM at a camp in Brattelboro, Vermont. It's eight weeks consisted of a leadership session and a Hebrew speaking session. Was anyone out there present, or have information, or memories about that very special summer? I remember that Benny Applebaum (Ben Zion Elan) was a shaliach, and lots of advice for the future was given to us by various elders, shlichim and others. This included not only "of course you are going on aliyah" but where to go for college to prepare for that event. Details are sparse from [...] 751 45 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com30_Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:14:33 -0400613_iso-8859-1 To "NYMama", whoever you are: Boiberik was sponsored by the Sholomalechem Yiddish School organization. My wife, Harriet (nee Zichlinsky), was a camper there for a couple of years in the '30s. She was also a pupil at the Sholomalechem "Mittle Shuleh". Fortunately for all of us, she joined Habonim and eventually went on Hachsharah at Creamridge, NJ in the spring of "41, where we met and were married. Ben Cohen -----Original Message----- From: NYMamma@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Date: Friday, September 01, 2000 12:13 AM Subject: Re: Camp Kinderwelt? [...] 797 34 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Fri, 1 Sep 2000 13:19:32 -0400619_iso-8859-1 There is no doubt that we are talking here about the invisible seams that bound together Yiddish speaking socialist zionism, mostly embodied in Eastern Europe by the party called Poaley Zion, a political combination of Borochov and Syrkin socialist and nationalist thinking, and Farband and the Arbeiter Ring (workmen's circle) in America, with Habonim and American Labor Zionism. Habonim basically came out as an American, English speaking, but purely Hebrew Zionist continuation of the Yiddish speaking Poaley Zion, as I believe it had already been established in "Builders and Dreamers?" ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 832 16 29_Re: 100 Years of togetherness0_16_SMG54321@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Sep 2000 15:07:47 EDT382_US-ASCII Dear Brian, Yes I do have a few copies left. If you wish to obtain any please letme know your mailing adress an include $19.00 per copy. Shabbat shalom Ilana

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 849 109 59_Fwd: Updated schedule for Shorashim Labor Day Weekend (fwd)0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Fri, 1 Sep 2000 19:22:24 EDT411_US-ASCII Dear Habofolk anyplace accessible to NYC this weekend,

Please read the attached email. Shorashim does all "Dor Rishon" = Habonim style dances and brings in wonderful choreographers from Israel to lead dancing for 4 days right in Manhattan. For those of you who can come to any or all of the sessions, drop by! It's the only "Dance Camp" which has per session prices and is very reasonable. [...] 959 29 25_Re:Reunions and histories0_17_Shulansid@aol.com28_Sat, 2 Sep 2000 10:29:10 EDT552_US-ASCII Judy

Re: Brattleboro

I was beginning think it was a dream, since no one I know now, had ever heard of Brattleboro. I think Habonim sent me to help cook that summer, and it was there I learned that Jello was not kosher! Harry Bromberg, who I believe is now a Rabbi in the Boston area, might have been Rosh. I remember that Chaim Benkel, of Ramat Yohanan, later known as Chaim Hadomi was a Shaliach. He has since passed away. His wife Leah, is still in Ramat Yohanan. Marion Magid was a chanicha, and one of the bright lights [...] 989 292 10_Telling It12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il30_Sat, 2 Sep 2000 18:35:21 +0200367_windows-1255 For This ňě ćŕú

Nathan Alterman







Less than two handfuls of biblical verses yoke the two words of the title of Nathan Alterman’s 1948 poem, al-zot. The four examples below, rendered as at this and for this demonstrate that when paired, al zot is invariably an expression of radical disfavor of a lamentable deed. [...] 1282 21 19_Hebrew Gore Posters11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:28:19 -0400515_us-ascii I erased the email so I don't remember who asked, but if you go to the Gore website (www.gore2000.com), you can find buttons and posters in Hebrew. I haven't looked since Lieberman was selected, but I imagine that the Gore/Lieberman stuff is now on the same site.

Shalom- Judy Gelman

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1304 62 23_Re: Hebrew Gore Posters14_Paul Fingerman29_paul.fingerman@mindspring.com31_Sat, 02 Sep 2000 19:37:37 -0700539_us-ascii Sorry, but this ("gore2000.com") is a commercial site operated by politicalshop.com. The official Gore web site is www.gore2000.org. I didn't see any Hebrew items at either site this evening.

At 10:28 PM 9/2/00 -0400, you wrote: >I erased the email so I don't remember who asked, but if you go to the >Gore website (www.gore2000.com), you can find buttons >and posters in Hebrew. I haven't looked since Lieberman was >selected, but I imagine that the Gore/Lieberman stuff is now on the same >site. > >Shalom- >Judy Gelman > 1367 26 17_Hebrew Gore Stuff11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sun, 03 Sep 2000 00:37:56 -0400663_us-ascii Dear Chevre-

Here is a page of "Jewish Outreach" merchandise licensed by the Gore campaign.

http://www.promotionsource.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/online-store/scstore/Presidential_Ticket_2000/Jewish_Friends.html?E+Ticket2000_scstore

I got to it from the site I memntioned before, but it did take quite a few links to get there. I couldn't find a poster--if any one does, please let me know.

Warmly- Judy Gelman

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1394 126 11_Monthly FAQ12_Jennifer Kay19_kay@elvis.rowan.edu31_Sun, 03 Sep 2000 02:32:02 -0400421_- Actually-from:BCooper@descartes.com

Hi Chevre,

Here is a reminder of the "essential" commands that you can use to configure your subscription to Habonet. I will post this monthly from now on. Please note -- The address for commands is: listproc@shamash.org whereas the address for posts to the list is: habonet@shamash.org If you need any help with any of it, send me an email: BCooper@descartes.com [...] 1521 21 23_Re: HABONET digest 164313_Evelyn Stopak23_eviemielstopak@juno.com30_Sun, 3 Sep 2000 09:42:41 -0400521_- Got your message. On our way shortly. See you soon. Love, E & M ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1543 275 10_Jewishness12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il30_Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:45:51 +0200335_windows-1255 Haverot/im

Today we were exposed to a public obscenity when Deri finally went to prison accompanied by 20,000 Shas supporters. Some attacked police and TV reporters. In their eyes we (including the supreme court, atorney general, and the police are not Jewish. ) By way of rebuttal I submit (how else) a poem. [...] 1819 141 25_greetings from a newcomer29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net30_Sun, 3 Sep 2000 17:13:20 -0400508_iso-8859-1 I've been asked, as a new subscriber, to introduce myself.

I am Esther Cohen, Mosh '70-KmBet75; MB 76; Mosh Tzevet 77 and 79 (i think); Workshop 77-78, Gesher Haziv. For those who like to make familial connections, my mother was Lenore Schwartz; now she's Lenore Cohen. She helped build the Annapolis Mosh in the late 40's. My father is George Cohen, who was the visiting Mosh doctor for a few years. And my brother is Chip Cohen, Mosh '69(?), 70-??; MB 72, probably; Mosh tzevet '76. [...] 1961 39 23_Re: HABONET digest 164312_Frances Rudy21_tsip@worldnet.att.net30_Sun, 3 Sep 2000 22:30:50 -0700470_iso-8859-1 Dear E & M,

If you are on your way to see me, you are going to be disappointed, since I don't know you and might not be home anyway, not knowing anything about your trip and when you are supposed to arrive at your [unknown] destination!!

Tsippi Rudy



----- Original Message ----- From: Evelyn Stopak To: Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2000 6:42 AM Subject: Re: HABONET digest 1643 [...] 2001 82 37_Habo Southern Africa Reunion Machaneh15_David Reinhardt20_david@reinhardts.net31_Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:05:13 +0200422_iso-8859-1 SHALOM CHAVERIM

WHY NOT?

We start this letter with a question that we hope will become an answer once its contents have been revealed.

Having seen the title of this e-mail and subsequently opening it, instead of deleting it, tells me that you are curious as to what exactly "HABONIM REUNION" means.

Well hopefully this will satisfy your curiosity as well as whet your appetite. [...] 2084 25 29_Re: greetings from a newcomer16_beverly schwartz19_beverly@hevanet.com30_Tue, 5 Sep 2000 09:46:51 -0700342_ISO-8859-1 Esther,

Hi, this is Beverly Schwartz, your fellow workshopper. I was very happy to see you posting in Habonet because I needed to get information on your whereabouts. So please e-mail to me your address, phone number, and e-mail. Oh, this is for the Habonim-Dror Foundation databank.

And tell me more about you! [...] 2110 18 4_Help0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Tue, 5 Sep 2000 13:06:21 EDT366_US-ASCII Hi- Some years ago, when I was working at the JCC in Houston, I used to be able to rent Israeli and Jewish films for programs from the Jewish Welfare Board-- Now I can't seem to find them. Does any one out there know of a place or if this still exists?? Or where a good source is???? Thanks - You can e-mail me privatley at Liberhawke at aol.com...Sue [...] 2129 61 11_Compromise?12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 05 Sep 2000 17:11:45 -0500 (CDT)596_us-ascii If it's our holiest city and the Moslems' 3rd holiest city (at least since 1948), how come we are willing to compromise and the Arabs are not?

FYI (Dov)



Thursday, August 31, 2000 / Rosh Chodesh Elul 5760

ISRAEL WILLING TO GIVE, PALESTINIANS NOT WILLING TO TAKE A "senior government source" is quoted in Ma'ariv today to the effect that Israel will be willing to give up part of its sovereignty on the Temple Mount. "We must be realistic," he said. "Moslems control the Mount in any event, such that if the question of sovereignty will make or break the [...] 2191 288 14_Re: Telling It12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 05 Sep 2000 17:18:21 -0500 (CDT)419_iso-8859-1 A beautiful poem (below), Amno. Thanks for sharing it. After the poem you ask if we have changed. I think the answer to that is no. The horror that Ben-Gurion felt at the slaughter of innocent civilians still very much permeates the Israeli and world Jewish communities. (Witness the reactions to Baruch Goldstein's vile deeds.) Would that our enemies felt the same way about such senseless slaughters. [...] 2480 21 13_Mosh Memories0_15_Moshava@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 07:49:27 EDT349_US-ASCII Hi everyone, We still have Mosh Reunion t-shirts and ad book/rosters. The t-shirts are beautifully designed by Shelly Shonebaum Ephraim and showcase both the old and new semel. To get an ad book email me, to get a t-shirt email rickglaser@aol.com. We are requesting a $10 donation for each to cover printing and shipping. todah! tammy [...] 2502 87 15_Re: Compromise?13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 10:55:51 -0400613_iso-8859-1 I don't know where the information being used by Dov is taken from, as he apparently bothers to conceal the source for it. But in his short provocation note at the head, did you notice that he does not mention Arafat, the PLO, or the Palestinian people. He refers instead to Muslims and Arabs. That means he is referring not to the compromise at hand between the government of the State of Israel and the Palestinian state-in-the-making, administered by President Arafat and the Palestinian Authority. He himself insists on referring to the larger conflict between the Jewish Zionist movement and [...] 2590 181 18_RE>Re- Compromise?14_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org24_06 Sep 00 11:37:47 -0400560_iso-8859-1 RE>Re: Compromise? 9/6/2000 Gosh, I've never written on here before. It's kind of neat, I can write whatever I want and press delete if anybody disagrees with me. Cool! I don't know who responded to Dov, but I know Dov, I've worked with Dov (and I even love Dov), and I can tell you Dov's no Dov. But for the moment, it seems to me that, whoever responded took his point about Moslems and their commitment to Jerusalem out of context. And although I agree with the sentiments of this mystery person, it almost seems as though he's accusing Dov [...] 2772 48 22_Re: RE>Re- Compromise?13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 11:53:59 -0400614_iso-8859-1 Dear Steve,

I don't know you, even though I've heard your family name mentioned a lot around my in-laws (the Detroit/Southfield Salingers) family dinner table. My name is Yuval Warshai.

I don't know Dov either, and thus I cannot either love or hate him. The opinions expressed by someone signing as Dov Liberman on this list most of the time sound to me as having a thorough revisionistic, right-wing, conservative, and ultimately very reactionary undertone in matters of Israel and Judaism. Most of the time I strongly disagree with this type of undertone. Best regards, ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 2821 34 16_Re: Mosh reunion13_Pearl Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il30_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 00:26:46 +0200604_iso-8859-1 to all fellow Moshniks: so sorry I missed the event. Found it very moving to read your descriptions of the reunion. Love to you all. pearl

----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 4:02 AM Subject: Re: Mosh reunion



> I love reading the Mosh reunion reports. It's fun to see something through > someone else's eyes. I only have one correction to Alan's take on the day. > There were way more than 230 people there. There were over 300 people > registered and we had over 100 just show up. Its the [...] 2856 21 25_Re: Mosh reunion t-shirts0_15_Moshava@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:05:53 EDT464_US-ASCII a little correction to the mosh reunion t-shirt request. you don't have to email, please send a check to:

Habonim Camp Assoc. 3755 Springlake Lane Owings Mills MD 21117

let him know what size (they seem to run a little small)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2878 92 11_Good job!!!4_Ezra26_foundation@habonimdror.org30_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 14:37:38 -0400397_iso-8859-1 Three cheers to Beverly!!!

Hip Hip Hooray (3X)

This is EXACTLY what the kvutza captains should be doing. Mazal tov Beverly, this is a great dugma.

Another good dugma comes from Shira Diner and Erica Schwartz from Workshop 42 (Urim). They wrote a letter and sent it to all the people in their kvutza asking for leads on missing chevre. Rock on Erica and Shira. [...] 2971 62 0_11_Jamie Levin22_mazkir@habonimdror.org30_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:05:31 -0400420_iso-8859-1 Friday, September 01, 2000

Shalom,

It’s hard for me to believe that I’m actually in the position to write this letter. At twenty-three its quite easy to remember back to my first year at Machaneh Gesher. I enjoyed the atmosphere and freedom of camp without realizing that Gesher was part of something much bigger. It was later still when I felt like I was part of something larger as well. [...] 3034 18 13_shir l'shalom0_15_Moshava@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 19:59:36 EDT394_US-ASCII does anyone have all the words to shir l'shalom? my daughter needs to do a presentation on yitzhak rabin and she wants to talk about the meaning of the song. todah tammy

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 3053 34 17_Re: shir l'shalom0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com28_Wed, 6 Sep 2000 20:42:11 EDT267_US-ASCII Tammy, I assume you want a translation of the song: Let the sun rise, the morning give it's light The purest of prayers will not bring back to us He whose candle was snuffed out and buried in the dust Bitter cry won't wake him and won't bring him back. [...] 3088 39 17_Re: shir l'shalom16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com29_Thu, 07 Sep 2000 03:02:04 GMT587_- Tammy,

The link below is for 50 years of Israeli music.

http://www.israel.org/mfa/go.asp?MFAH00tx0

Your daughter can also access from there the words in Hebrew (actual Hebrew Font). By the way, in my years living in Israel, and also while teaching here, I put together a good collection of articles about Rabin and I've also got the newspapers from the day after the assasination and a great video called seven days in November (in Hebrew with English titles). If your daughter is interested, I can loan her any of the material, and she is welcome to use it. [...] 3128 16 15_Re: Good job!!!16_beverly schwartz19_beverly@hevanet.com30_Thu, 7 Sep 2000 09:42:40 -0700257_ISO-8859-1 Thank you Ezra.

Beverly

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 3145 49 15_Re: Compromise?12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 07 Sep 2000 11:52:19 -0500 (CDT)634_us-ascii Yuval wrote:



>I don't know where the information being used by Dov is taken from, as he >apparently bothers to conceal the source for it. But in his short >provocation note at the head, did you notice that he does not mention >Arafat, the PLO, or the Palestinian people. He refers instead to Muslims and >Arabs. That means he is referring not to the compromise at hand between the >government of the State of Israel and the Palestinian state-in-the-making, >administered by President Arafat and the Palestinian Authority. He himself >insists on referring to the larger conflict between the Jewish Zionist [...] 3195 25 15_Re: Compromise?0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:15:04 EDT391_US-ASCII I believe it was Golda who said, " I can forgive your boys for killing my boys. I cannot forgive them for teaching by boys to kill" I hope I have the quote rite but the idea is correct.

Until Arafat learns to compromise the killing goes on. I understand that the "new" textbooks underwritten by Europe and never shown to them before disrtibution continue to teach hate. [...] 3221 31 15_& Labor Zionism0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Thu, 7 Sep 2000 14:46:23 EDT339_US-ASCII I realize that most of you reading this E-Mail are much younger than I am. I believe very strongly that because so many younger adults do NOT join organizations , and that as we grow older we tend to become more conservative , that is the reason our Jewish comunity and America in general is becoming much more conservative. [...] 3253 31 13_burning camps11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Thu, 07 Sep 2000 16:08:44 -0600543_us-ascii As a little Jew, I attended a Workmen's Circle Camp Kinder Ring outside of Santa Ana, CA in Carbon Canyon. It rocked. I remember watching "The Boy With Green Hair" there. Did anyone else ever see that? Definitely my first exposure to tolerance propaganda.

My grandparents lived in a cottage in the hills above the camp. My parents had Labor Zionist affiliations and sent me off to San Francisco Habonim as soon as Fagey Tussman got it organized. I went under protest with good reason... crazy bastards ruined me for life. [...] 3285 23 23_Re: HABONET digest 164718_sam or anna kelman20_kelman@attglobal.net31_Thu, 07 Sep 2000 16:54:32 -0400586_us-ascii Hi all, I come to you with an unusual request. I have recently been asked to chair the camp committee of the Jewish Reconstructionist Federation. It has been a long time since I have been involved with developing a budget for camp or other such matters. I would appreciate it if people could let me know what rates were for camp this summer in a variety of places plus if any camp committee members &/or business managers would be willing to discuss their budgets for the summer with me including staff to chanich ratio, salaries for madricim, specialists etc.; marketing [...] 3309 80 18_[Fwd: Compromise?]11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 07 Sep 2000 21:13:12 -0400318_us-ascii Dov wrote: "P.S. Look carefully. I list the source of everything I post."

I was ROTFLMAO when I read you of all people encouraging others to look carefully at what was posted. Someone recently asked me when was the last time I laughed so hard I cried and I couldn't remember. Now it will be easy. [...] 3390 20 17_Re: burning camps0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Sep 2000 00:48:51 EDT343_US-ASCII

YIKES!!!!!!!!! I was very touched by "The Boy With Green Hair"- I saw it when I was about 6 or 7 and had dreams about it for weeks.....I thought I was the only one in the world who ever heard of it....Gee, Phil- I guess "birds of a feather"--Just think- A Green Hair Landsman!!!!!!!....(sue- the girl with grey hair).... [...] 3411 50 17_Re: burning camps0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:03:22 EDT526_US-ASCII << ps A big shoutout to Steve Schreier! According to someone who saw you at Mosh, you've shrunk. Don't worry dude, I'll always think of you as a big fat obnoxious dweeb. give'm hell mf. >> On Evrev T'sha B'av in the summer of 1970, my first amelim summer at Mosh, Big Bad Bumba sent the whole machaneh to bed early (as we learned later, of course, it was for us to get a few hours of rest before the old silent midnight march to the chof with tableaus and the banging "ZACHOR!" drum) as we were gathering in the [...] 3462 110 20_RE>Re- burning camps14_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org24_08 Sep 00 10:51:09 -0400580_iso-8859-1 RE>Re: burning camps 9/8/2000 I'm not sujre how to reply to Rachel, but: 1. I'm still 9 feet wide (just on the inside), and 2. It really was your fault

-------------------------------------- Date: 9/8/2000 10:06 AM To: Steve Schreier From: habonet << ps A big shoutout to Steve Schreier! According to someone who saw you at Mosh, you've shrunk. Don't worry dude, I'll always think of you as a big fat obnoxious dweeb. give'm hell mf. >> On Evrev T'sha B'av in the summer of 1970, my first amelim summer at Mosh, Big Bad Bumba sent the whole machaneh to bed [...] 3573 17 17_Re: burning camps0_18_Green88888@aol.com28_Fri, 8 Sep 2000 15:56:06 EDT276_US-ASCII I saw The Boy With Green Hair movie too when I was a camper at Camp Deerhead during my pre-Habonim days. I must have been about 8 and I remember it made a big impression on me, besides being very scary. I also thought noone else saw this movie besides me! Donna [...] 3591 19 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Sep 2000 16:26:47 EDT443_US-ASCII Dear Aviva--Thank you for the clarification, but do you know the founding and ending dates of the Chelsea, Michigan camps and the founding date of Midwest Camp Habonim? Did they all merge into Midwest Camp Habonim in 1954 or 1955? Today of course Midwest Camp is called Camp Tavor and when, by the way, did that name change take place, to Camp Tavor? Just want to get the chronology straight for future historians. Jackie Porter [...] 3611 19 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Sat, 9 Sep 2000 16:38:35 EDT388_US-ASCII Thank you Dov for the clarification. Joel Migdal is I beleive at the University of washington in Seattle now. This issue of a Yiddish versus a Hebrew speaking Labor Zionism is fascinating. Has anyone written about it? That is why all this email I will send to the Habonim archives I am setting up at the American Jewish Archives in Cincinnatti, Ohio. My best, Jackie Porter [...] 3631 30 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 06:23:52 +0300343_iso-8859-1 Dear Jack,

Most questions on Midwest/Tavor can be answered by Mike Zurakov in Chicago. Midwest changed the name to Tavor after the summer session of 1963/ before the Veida of the same year. I remember that we were told, as the only camp without a Hebrew name, we couldn't come to Veida until we came up with a new name. [...] 3662 21 17_Re: burning camps0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 04:23:26 EDT431_US-ASCII We showed The Boy With Green Hair (Russ Tamblyn, right?) at Gilboa in '67 and had a 98% hysterical set of chanichim. Apparently, there were so many children of divorced families in the 60s in the L.A. area that there were hordes of chanichim weeping because The Boy With Green Hair was an orphan and they related to him and his sadness. Yoni Shultz, Ronnie and Hilda Cohen, and others, do you remember this incident? [...] 3684 43 23_Re: HABONET digest 165018_sam or anna kelman20_kelman@attglobal.net31_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:23:53 -0400689_us-ascii



Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh wrote:

> HABONET Digest 1650 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: CAMP KINDERVELT > by JackNusan@aol.com > 2) Re: CAMP KINDERVELT > by JackNusan@aol.com > 3) Re: CAMP KINDERVELT > by "Holtzer Family" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Subject: Re: CAMP KINDERVELT > Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 16:26:47 EDT > From: JackNusan@aol.com > To: habonet@shamash.org > > Dear Aviva--Thank you for the clarification, but do you know the founding and > ending dates of the Chelsea, Michigan camps and the founding date of Midwest > Camp Habonim? [...] 3728 144 13_Yamaim Noraim12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:58:24 +0200390_iso-8859-1 Haverim/ot I may have noted in previous postings that great literature does not sit around biding its time for dramatic events to provide it with subject matter. Indeed, contemporary Israel outpaces Biblical Israel's formulaic interval: (:And the land had rest forty years" Judges, 3) in that it has experienced four wars with peaceful intervals averaging merely 8.5 years. [...] 3873 20 17_Re: burning camps0_16_YonatonS@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 14:30:55 EDT377_US-ASCII Aliyah you are so right! I don't remember the movie, but I will never forget the reaction. Especially since I was the person in charge of ordering films that summer, and while I had never seen the movie myself, someone told me it was really, really good. We had a very difficult night that night calming down the kids. Ah, such memories of camp. Shavuah Tov Yoni [...] 3894 44 17_Re: burning camps5_Cohen21_hnrcohen@mediaone.net31_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 15:00:08 -0700420_iso-8859-1 We sure do remember the Boy with the Green Hair. It stands out as one of the more memorable accomplishments of that summer, the first I was a Rosh Machaneh. Showing an un-previewed movie was right up there with losing that kvutza of chotrim for a day when they took a tiyul that had not been pre-scouted (the topo map failed to disclose an impassable fence across the trail). Oh well, everyone survived. [...] 3939 19 17_A dikduk question0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:23:06 EDT452_US-ASCII This Shabbat we had a discussion about"Yir'at shamayim"--so I have a question. While it is usually translated as "awe" or "fear"- isn't the root also connected with " resh-aleph"- ( seeing)--- I remember long ago in Hebrew College discussions with Dr. Ivri regarding some verbs which had originally 2 letter roots and became 3 letters after time.....so I am questioning about the "resh-aleph" thing..Any help would be appreciated...susie [...] 3959 47 7_HIST0RY15_MENDY MENDELSON24_frenchhorn90@hotmail.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:50:10 GMT600_-

Shalom to all, I just got back from a stay in thee hospital (reaming out some tubes), to find Habonet full again with reunions,camp names and placees, captains of workshops, and all sorts of innane dialogs. ENOUGH!!!! How many of you know of the militant Zionist-Socialist back- ground of Habonim? Of marching down 5th Ave. on May 1st carrying our flag and the Red flag side by side? Of collecting food and money for the Loyalists in Spain. Of campaigning for Norman Thomas, the perenial Socialist candidate for President of the USA. Of fighting Betar in front of the Warldorf-Astoria [...] 4007 59 11_Re: HIST0RY11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:02:28 -0700532_us-ascii Though I cannot tell of fighting Betar in front of the Warldorf-Astoria, I can tell of walking miles in the snow to a local Synagogue and then on to a bus station, so the members of the Rockland County Ken can join in protest for Soviet Jewry. Many of us are too young to recall the wonderful stories you can relay, but they do not diminish our importance and that of our causes, nor should they. Please do go on and tell, but don't belittle us because we were not there when it all started. Our history is a process, [...] 4067 48 21_Re: A dikduk question5_Cohen21_hnrcohen@mediaone.net31_Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:45:57 -0700558_iso-8859-1 Susie -- The vast majority of verbs in Hebrew have a three-letter root. The root of Yir'a, "fear, awe" is yod resh aleph; the root of R'iya, "sight, vision" is resh aleph heh (historically, it's not really heh, but rather yod or vav, but that's a different story). What Dr. Ivri was probably talking about, however, is that many of these three letter roots are comprised of two strong letters (the resh and aleph, in this case), and a weak one, and in many cases there is a common semantic theme among many of the roots that share two strong [...] 4116 40 18_What Would You Do?0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 02:10:45 EDT519_US-ASCII Dear Habonet Friends,

Here's a real life situation which I'd very much like to hear how you would handle:



A friend of mine (Jewish) works in a suburban high school and has one extremely close colleague (non-Jewish) who has become one of her closest friends over a period of years. My friend has had two children in the school and the colleague has not only been their teacher but has really gone out of her way for them as well as supporting my friend on all kinds of school issues. [...] 4157 27 22_Re: What Would You Do?0_17_Geokat100@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 04:46:37 EDT366_US-ASCII I would send my regrets to the friend's friend and a gift to the bride, then go have fun at the wedding. I would explain to the mother of the bride, is she asked, that I would be uncomfortable going to the club. I would hope that everyone would be grown up enough to realize that a bridal shower is not an occasion to raise a stink about such matters. [...] 4185 40 22_Re: What Would You Do?13_Erica Schwarz25_erica_schwarz@hotmail.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:00:18 EDT520_- Hi - I just signed up for Habonet recently and haven't yet written anything, but since Aliya's story made react out loud as i read it, i thought i'd respond!

I could not go to a shower at a club that makes it a practice to restrict its membership, regardless of whether or not I was a member of the restricted group. If it were me, I would call my friend and explain to her how I could not possibly enjoy myself in such a situation and would feel that i was somehow betraying who i was by participating in [...] 4226 34 15_Re: Compromise?13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:03:37 -0400629_iso-8859-1 Instead of judging what this or that, obscure and not-so-obscure politician says or declares, I suggest we judge what the Palestinian state-in-the-making DOES, in order to gauge their readiness to compromise. Their parliament's latest action of divesting the deadline of September 13 of immediate political and diplomatic significance shows a definite readiness to compromise and to play by the diplomatic constraints that generally rule the behavior of most nation-states. It is a good sign, a sign that the hope and the peace process are not dead yet. It gives the process a new lease on life, until we see how [...] 4261 32 25_Mendy and Habonim History9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 10:24:25 -0400542_iso-8859-1 `Dearest Mendy: First, let me tell you how happy I am that you are out of the hospital and feeling better. Secondly, let me tell you how happy I am that you are still feisty and full of vigor. The history you talk about is real, and you are a vivid example of one of the real "doers" in " the good old days". However, there is a wonderful book, "Builders and Dreamers", published on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of Habonim, that is full of personal and movement history and describes much of which you speak. Batel is [...] 4294 39 21_Oil for Holy Places??0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:38:27 EDT665_US-ASCII Like all of a sudden!

The light goes on.

Can it be? Oy!

Even if it's not, will it be said? Oy!

Lieberman!

Chaver Steve

---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 00:13:20 -0700 To: recon-j@shamash.org From: Jerry Blaz Subject: re: High oil prices & tikkun olam



Tell me, why do I have this sneaking suspicion that if -- as it looks right now -- that on the outside chance that Israel and the Palestinians get together on a peace plan, the oil prices will go down? I hope is isn't paranoia on my part, that there is a good [...] 4334 27 25_Re: Oil for Holy Places??13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:55:44 -0400594_iso-8859-1 I think the person you quote, whom I 'know' from the list from which you have crossposted this message [that out of context here, must seem rather cryptic for people on Habonet], is wrong this time. Or simply paranoid, as he himself suspects. For once I believe the oil price crisis is driven by larger forces than the ubiquitous Jewish State in the Middle East, thank god. What is at stake here, I believe, is the third world starting to finally rise up against western capitalist imperialism to claim full ownership of its natural resources. These resources are mainly fossil [...] 4362 15 21_Re: A dikduk question0_16_YonatonS@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:56:29 EDT293_ISO-8859-1 Kol hakavod Ronnie. I knew you would come up with the answer. Yoni

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4378 61 10_Kindervelt20_Freidenreich, Fradle16_fradle@bjeny.org31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:38:33 -0400490_iso-8859-1 Re Kindervelt: We have been away for a few weeks and so I am just catching up on my email and found all the correspondence about Kindervelt and the other camps which were so vital in the 40s and 50s. No one seems yet to have mentioned the Labor Zionist sponsored camp Kindervelt in Prefontaine Quebec, Canada. I was a counselor and Head counselor there in '49, and again in the early 50's. the camp had a "senior" section of cottages adjacent to the camp called Unzer Camp. [...] 4440 21 21_Re: A dikduk question13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 12:25:55 -0400392_iso-8859-1 I used to listen in on a Hebrew Language listserv discussion list similar to this one [actually, I believe it still runs on this same server/host, Shamash]. That is where I first 'met' [eclectronically] and got to admire the knowledge of our chaver Ronnie Cohen. I am glad and proud too that we have a Hebrew Linguist of Ronnie's caliber on Habonet. yishar koach, ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 4462 20 21_Re: A dikduk question0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:43:43 EDT361_US-ASCII

Dear Ronnie! Thanks- you explanation was one which the rabbi also gave, but also reserved the right to check out the earlier Semitic lines to see if indeed at some point the words were related. He liked the "drash", though, and said he had heard it somewhere else. That is why I LOVE Hebrew.... what a great "tongue"---thanks again- susie [...] 4483 26 22_"One Day in September"0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 14:22:16 EDT331_US-ASCII Dear Friends,



I thought you would be interested to know that "One Day in September," Arthur Cohn's Oscar winning documentary film on the massacre of 11 Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympic games in 1972 will be aired tonight, Monday night at 8:00 PM, on HBO. This will be shown on HBO one time only. [...] 4510 20 26_Re: "One Day in September"7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 23:25:37 +0200335_us-ascii I just finished watching One Day in September here in Israel (Channel 2) when I opened Steve's message that it will be on later today in the U.S. Not to be missed, though so wrenching. We were already living in Israel when it happened, but we watched tonight with my 23-year-old son, who didn't know many of the details. [...] 4531 24 22_Re: What Would You Do?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:59:17 EDT336_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/11/00 2:11:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SC523@aol.com writes:

> ut it is well known among the > Membership Committee and throughout the community that Jews are not to be > accepted for membership. And this is the place where the shower is being > held. > > If this were you, what would you do? [...] 4556 34 22_Re: What Would You Do?30_Victor M Glasberg & Associates17_vmg@tidalwave.net31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:58:02 -0400549_us-ascii Hello,

I came in in the middle of this. Would someone please restate the problem? I'm a civil rights lawyer. Thanks.

Vic Glasberg

Richardrdsmith@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 9/11/00 2:11:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SC523@aol.com > writes: > > > ut it is well known among the > > Membership Committee and throughout the community that Jews are not to be > > accepted for membership. And this is the place where the shower is being > > held. > > > > If this were you, what would you do? > > I would go and [...] 4591 18 22_Re: What Would You Do?0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:49:52 EDT437_US-ASCII Off the top of my head, there appear to be two choices: -not go to the shower, explain the reason to the hostess, send a gift -not go to the shower, give an excuse to spare my friend's feelings, send a gift Aviva

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4610 14 17_Re: burning camps0_15_DenaSol@aol.com29_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:58:09 EDT275_US-ASCII Loved that boy with the green hair. Dena Belinkoff

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4625 168 29_Sephardi cultural event in DC11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:17:30 -0400460_us-ascii

Ivri-NASAWI

New Assn of Sephardi/Mizrahi Artists & Writers Int'l

invites you to an

Open House

celebrating a new chapter in DC for Sephardi & Mizrahi cultures

with Yerah Gover, Israeli author, on Sephardi/Mizrahi

writers Shimon Ballas, Albert Swissa and Sami Michael

Murat Nemet-Nejat, Turkish poet and translator

on growing up in Istanbul and performing poetry in English & Turkish [...] 4794 34 22_Re: What Would You Do?0_17_moorejnb@juno.com31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 20:21:47 -0500297_- I would probably go, as an invited guest, and through my perfect behavior show them that Jews don't have horns, make a mess, smell, or corrupt their children. Maybe if they knew more Jews their prejudice would look all the more silly, and by the next generation the situation would change. [...] 4829 23 15_Habonim History9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 21:49:19 -0700359_us-ascii In addition to "Builders and Dreamers" there was an earlier book published about Habonim entitled "Arise and Build" and another dealing with our camping history called "Adventures in Pioneering" which are both very interesting. However I don't remember reading anything about a fight with Betar at the Waldorf. Now that would have been a story. [...] 4853 16 19_Re: Habonim History0_17_Llamamint@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:53:42 EDT316_US-ASCII I dont think i knew how coveted "arise and build" is i have an underappreciated copy -ilana

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4870 112 22_Re: What Would You Do?14_Orit Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Mon, 11 Sep 2000 22:33:57 -0700 (PDT)585_us-ascii I've been reading with interest the many answers to the issue in question and have had many answers of my own.

1. I could probably go to the shower knowing it's a private party for a dear friend's daughter that happens to be held in an exclusive country club.

2. I could decline the invitation, mentioning to the hostess that I would feel uncomfortable attending a shower in a place that I know has a policy against accepting minorities for membership, being one of those minorities myself. (Admittedly, I would have to say something if I decided not to go [...] 4983 35 7_HISTORY15_MENDY MENDELSON24_frenchhorn90@hotmail.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:50:03 GMT566_-



So far for Benny and Ezra. I am afraid that you did not understand the nature of my complaint.I have no arguement in conection with Habonim's ability to maintain its core philosophy and ideology. Thank God for that!!! What riles me is the waste of time and space in the Habonet Digest on all sorts of ridiculous topics and going over them again and again.All of you story tellers get out to the Habonim and Jewish youth in your areas andhelp educate them to the core philosophies and ideologies as we knew them. Benny that is what I wanted to [...] 5019 246 7_Forward15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:42:01 +0200626_iso-8859-8 i am pasting in a piece from the recent FORWARD.









LETTER FROM LOS ANGELES Rites of Springsong Springsong Cooper lives with her parents and three siblings in a one-room house on a mountaintop in the state of Washington. The house, built by her father, has neither an indoor toilet nor running water. It has no refrigeration and no computers, and its water comes from a nearby spring. The feeble electricity supply comes from a solar panel - not very effective during a Washington winter. (The family refuses to link up with the electric grid because the power comes from a [...] 5266 27 11_Re: HISTORY0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:11:31 EDT581_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/12/00 12:50:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, frenchhorn90@hotmail.com writes:

<< Love from all to you and Harriet. MENDY __________________________________________ >> Dear Mendy- While I agree with you that the net can be a tool for education (and it is-believe me)- I don't think it is fair to make judgments about how it is used, or to limit it to a course in Habonim ideology. ( actually many times it is used for that too). Part of this has to be a gossip sheet-It is the way we, from all over the place, communicate with our chevre about [...] 5294 15 21_Re: Forward-Thank you0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:17:19 EDT290_US-ASCII Dear Leo- What a beautiful story- Thank you for posting that- sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5310 201 11_Re: Forward7_Frankie19_ganenet@pacbell.net31_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 07:46:42 -0700587_us-ascii Can anyone tell me what " &mdash" means?

Frankie Meppen (Workshop `65, Gilboa `59 to `67)

Leo Diesendruck wrote:

> i am pasting in a piece from the recent FORWARD. LETTER FROM LOS > ANGELES > Rites of Springsong > Springsong Cooper lives with her parents and three siblings in a > one-room house on a mountaintop in the state of Washington. The house, > built by her father, has neither an indoor toilet nor running water. > It has no refrigeration and no computers, and its water comes from a > nearby spring. The feeble electricity supply comes from [...] 5512 20 11_Re: Forward0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:33:09 EDT494_US-ASCII &mdash is a printing term, speaking as a publications person. It probable that when this article was sent into cyberspace, the dash/hyphen that appears in that sentence comes out as "&mdash."

lisa (mosh 71-74)

by the way, i'm new to the habonet. hi y'all.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5533 279 23_an acceptable blueprint13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:00:57 -0400313_iso-8859-1 chaverot/im,

The document copied below is a good analysis of the status of current negotiations on Jerusalem, and in my view, it is a very acceptable blueprint for an eventual accord. All the necessary data regarding the document's author can be found at the end of it. shalom, ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 5813 18 22_Re: What Would You Do?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:34:45 EDT369_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/12/00 1:34:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, oritil@yahoo.com writes:

> Workshop '73-'74 (What number was that?) The 23rd

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5832 18 11_Re: Forward0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 16:39:54 EDT347_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/12/00 12:33:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Marshlf@aol.com writes:

> lisa (mosh 71-74) Lisa who?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5851 91 28_an acceptable blueprint - II13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:15:56 -0400340_iso-8859-1 chaverot/im,

The editorial of today's Ha'aretz (copied below) concurs almost squarely, if in less detail, with Baskin's document I had posted to the list earlier. I think we should all join the choir of messages being sent to Barak, saying: kadimah! There are 4 to 5 weeks maybe left to finish this deal! ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 5943 30 54_URGENT need for apartment, job, car (in that order)...0_21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 18:52:50 -0400368_- Hi All,

My Israeli nephew, Rami Gelber, recently finished 3 yrs army (much of it in Lebanon) is here in NY area for an extended post-army visit. He is also an American citizen (so needs no special work permits). He needs an apartment for himself and 2 other post-army colleagues as quickly as possible, preferably in or near Queens, Bronx, Brooklyn, NJ. [...] 5974 30 11_Re: Forward29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:16:28 -0400529_iso-8859-1 flyer. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 4:39 PM Subject: Re: Forward



> In a message dated 9/12/00 12:33:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Marshlf@aol.com > writes: > > > lisa (mosh 71-74) > Lisa who? > > >

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6005 18 11_Re: Forward0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:00:23 EDT336_US-ASCII Hi Richard--- Yes, it's me, Lisa Flyer (now Marsh). Good to see you at the reunion a few weeks ago.

lisa

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6024 40 22_Re: What Would You Do?0_14_Vered4@aol.com29_Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:52:46 EDT339_US-ASCII I think that what Orit had to say about exclusive Country Clubs, like the one mentioned in the "wedding shower" discussion, is "right on target" and I quite agree with her.

I would have no problem at all going to the shower....after all - the friend didn't choose the place - and it's nice to enjoy a friend's simcha. [...] 6065 16 11_Re: HISTORY0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Sep 2000 01:39:37 EDT267_US-ASCII Thanks Sue, you said it all.

Rahcel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6082 78 22_The purpose of Habonet11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Wed, 13 Sep 2000 08:21:03 -0400466_us-ascii Dear Mendy-

Habonet is not an educational organ for our youth. Only alumni are allowed to join and young alumni do not join in droves. Many of us work with youth as volunteers or professionally and we may get some of our emotional sustainance for that work from Habonet. Emotinal sustance doesn't always come from reviewing the ideology. "gossip" is important too. Together, they help us remember why what we learn in our youth is so important. [...] 6161 21 19_Re: Camp Kindervelt0_15_NYMamma@aol.com29_Wed, 13 Sep 2000 21:46:26 EDT486_US-ASCII To all who have been exploring the history of Jewish/Socialist/Zionist camping in the USand Canada, I received a reply from Alice Lazar, Rhea Feldman's sister, and from Rhea about Camp Boiberik. Alice said there was an alumni association. Thinking that they may also have a web site like Habonet, I searched the web and found one. It shares Boiberik history, songs, etc. You can find it at: http://belladonna.media.mit.edu/people/mres/boiberik/index.html. Enjoy!!! Marian [...] 6183 15 58_Re: URGENT need for apartment, job, car (in that order)...0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Thu, 14 Sep 2000 01:28:37 EDT373_US-ASCII Brian, if you could give information on your nephews skills - it might remind someone on Habonet of a gap in their organization, that he could fill.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6199 40 15_what's at stake13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Thu, 14 Sep 2000 16:02:55 -0400557_iso-8859-1 It is hard to believe, but what is really at stake on this final stretch is one very "simple" thing: the right to conduct archaelogical excavations under the Haram al-Sharif, the Mosques platform. Both sides want it. And the reason for both sides wanting it is that whoever gets to conduct them is the one that will ultimately DETERMINE what history was, and therefore what the present is, and what the future will be. Or at least, that is the status of humankind's current transcendent belief in the powers of the "science" of archaeology. [...] 6240 92 26_Fw: The purpose of Habonet12_Ellen Barkon20_ejbarkon@dellnet.com31_Thu, 14 Sep 2000 20:45:44 -0400648_iso-8859-1 Thanks Judy! You expressed this all very well and I couldn't agree with you more. Ellen Barkon (Segal) Workshop 23, Ma'ayan Baruch

----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Gelman To: ; Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 8:21 AM Subject: The purpose of Habonet



> Dear Mendy- > > Habonet is not an educational organ for our youth. Only > alumni are allowed to join and young alumni do not join in droves. Many > of us work with youth as volunteers or professionally and we may get > some of our emotional sustainance for that work from Habonet. [...] 6333 173 11_Re: Forward14_Orit Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:07:43 -0700 (PDT)531_us-ascii An em dash looks like this--although it comes out as a long dash when printed--rather than 2 short ones. --- Frankie wrote: > Can anyone tell me what " &mdash" means? > > Frankie Meppen (Workshop `65, Gilboa `59 to > `67) > > Leo Diesendruck wrote: > > > i am pasting in a piece from the recent > FORWARD. LETTER FROM LOS > > ANGELES > > Rites of Springsong > > Springsong Cooper lives with her parents and > three siblings in a > > one-room house on a mountaintop in the state > of Washington. [...] 6507 46 22_religion and diplomacy13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:03:12 -0400653_iso-8859-1 Mr. Abu Amar (a.k.a Yaser Arafat, the once world-renowned arch-terrorist, now on his way to becoming a symbol of national liberation) said to President Clinton and to Ehud Barak, according to some reports: "But look, there is no Temple there. There are pretty ancient Muslims Mosques there, as far as we can see?!" [And he wansn't stating this based only on his own and his fellow contemporary Palestinians' observations; there is a whole European archaelogical "school" in Denmark and in England that has been "scientifically" describing the obliteration of the ancient Philistine past and "objective remains" from "Palestine" that has [...] 6554 15 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 15 Sep 2000 23:15:23 EDT321_US-ASCII Great to hear from you after all these years. Do you ever come to Boston? My best--Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6570 37 6_Gevalt12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:22:04 +0200605_us-ascii

Haverim/ot I'd like to complain about a Jewish tragedy. To be measured, calm, and keep it in proportion, it is less horrendous than the destruction of the temple (either or both,) the Dreyfus affair, a pogrom, or even losing at volleyball on kachol lavan day. But as a calamity, it runs close behind and definitely qualifies for GEVALT status. I'm referring, ofcourse to people replying to something on habonet by hitting the Reply button on their screen. They then type their contribution on top and we are sandbagged by redigested (sometimes with 3 or 4 >'s ) of previously posted [...] 6608 78 22_RE: What Would You Do?12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG31_Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:21:30 -0400362_-

mentioned in the "wedding shower" discussion, is "right on target" and I > quite agree with her.> I have to disagree. I'm not sure exactly what I would do, which is why I've stayed out of this discussion till now, but I'm sure I wouldn't take the attitude Orit did. [...] 6687 87 29_Re: What Would You Do? (long)0_17_moorejnb@juno.com31_Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:11:10 -0500304_- The issue of minority vs. majority culture and overcoming prejudices both ways is major, as we can see here. Do you as a Jew boycott organizations who don't respect Judaism, and can we as Jews afford to ignore what others can contribute to our lives and organizations because they are not Jewish? [...] 6775 28 11_What a gas!11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:34:54 -0600636_us-ascii I figured someone would have brought this to the attention of the kvutza, but, since it has not received the mention and discussion it deserves...

Gas Deposits Off Israel and Gaza Opening Vision of Joint Ventures By WILLIAM A. ORME Jr. Drilling deep below the seas off Israel and the Gaza Strip, foreign energy companies are discovering gas reserves that could lift the Palestinian economy and give Israel its first taste of energy independence. Industry experts, including those on this giant platform, say the Palestinians and the Israelis will both profit if they can work together in a high-stakes partnership. [...] 6804 69 25_Hiring Jews and Non--Jews11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sun, 17 Sep 2000 08:29:20 -0400625_us-ascii Dear Julie and Sue-

It is interesting to see this question of hiring non-Jews in Jewish organizations on Habonet just now because my synagogue, on whose Board I serve,is considering this issue as an aspect of its employment policy statement.

Religious institions and institutions with less than 50 employees are not covered by many Federal and State employment laws but we are deciding, as a matter of ethics, to put ours under most of these laws. The statement before us was written by two civil rights/employment discrimination lawyers (we're in DC) and this policy statement is a real model in [...] 6874 1043 36_Secular Dvar Torah for Rosh Hashanah12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:54:49 +0200629_iso-8859-1

Annulling the Sacrifice of Isaac By its Fulfillment

(A.B.Yehoshua's Comments at the Seminar on his book, Mr. Mani, held at Haifa University, 2.4.1992)



But, as noted, all the reasons for the father's murder of the son, the really terrible crime which underlies the Mani lineage, and over which Abraham Mani seeks to take his own life, are required for establishing the akedah story in the novel not only as a mythic and metaphoric memory but in order to place it on a credible psychological and realistic foundation. All this, because I wanted to create a genuine akedah in the book; [...] 7918 58 15_Secular Drash 212_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:06:30 +0200643_us-ascii OOPS! I didn't send the prelude to "Secular Dvar Torah for Rosh Hashanah" here it is Amnon





Haverot/im It's never too early to kick off a sichah about Rosh ha-shanah for thinking people. Some of the thinking people on Habonet have doubted the genuineness of my secularism. Others, have asked what possible content such a stance could lay claim to. "And the secular Zionism that Amnon espouses but doesn't really practice, that not only negates the Diaspora, but ignores the richness and complexity of a 3500 year old religious civilization and reduces Judaism to a pretty uninteresting ethnicity, will fade [...] 7977 31 15_hiring non-Jews0_14_Vered4@aol.com29_Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:13:15 EDT574_US-ASCII Some of the hypothetical questions that Judy Gelman mentioned - have actually occurred:

In Atlanta we had (I believe) a non-Jewish Israeli Consul, and our newest Jewish Day school - the New Atlanta Community Jewish High School - has a non-Jewish Headmaster.

The Greenfield Hebrew Academy (Orthodox day school) in Atlanta has the most outstanding English teacher that anyone could ever hope to have - and Brenda Vance is not Jewish. I'm glad to know that the school that my children went to hires "the best" and religion is not a deciding factor. [...] 8009 15 15_Hiring non-Jews0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:08:48 EDT350_US-ASCII I forget the exact year, around 1994 or so, Mosh hired a Druz man as a madriach. He was very good, and an extremely nice guy.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8025 32 28_Economic Status Of kibbutzim9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:06:28 -0700606_us-ascii I tried to email an article from Ha'aretz (Magazine section) to the list but I don't know if I was successful. I really think it is something everyone should read.

The article outlines in very painful details the level of poverty and economic hardship being suffered by a large percentage of kibbutzim. It was a very difficult article to read. I saw it first on Friday, the same day that an article appeared in the Los Angeles Times discussing how the citizens of Sderot feel towards the surrounding kibbutz Regional Council that closed the chicken processing plant in bankruptcy. The [...] 8058 73 29_Re: Hiring Jews and Non--Jews0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 02:53:30 EDT654_US-ASCII Last year a survey/review report came out on the first five years of the Holocaust Museum (USHMM). The interviews and interpretation was performed by a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization (NARA, I think), at the behest of Congress. Many practical, insightful, and useful recommendations were made, such as: create a 10-year exhibition plan and keep staff throughout USHMM up-to-date on its progress; educate the Finance Department -- especially the career feds -- on handling the decidedly "ungovernmental" kinds of needs that may come up in a museum, like: don't necessarily just go for the lowest bid when choosing a contractor to design [...] 8132 39 9_Job offer12_Eli Birnbaum19_birnbaum@wzo.org.il31_Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:04:18 +0200382_us-ascii Shalom All



The overseas department of Melitz - Jewish and Zionist education in a pluralistic framework - is looking for a full-time secretary/administrator. The ideal candidate will be somebody Hebrew speaking with good English who is interested in working in the field of Jewish/Zionist education.

David Levin-Kruss 02-673 4441 extension 448.

8172 19 17_Jews and non-Jews12_Stein, Steve21_Steve.Stein@isacs.com31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 10:01:51 -0400497_- I think the membership restrictions based on one's belief should be considered wrong except when the person's belief interferes with the thing itself. I think the Rosh Machaneh who isn't Jewish is not prevented from her duties so she should get the job. A case where a person wouldn't be qualified would be if he/she refused to carry out his/her duties based on religious belief. That's the only valid justification. I strongly disagree with the Boy Scouts kicking out the gay troopmaster. [...] 8192 41 34_Habonim Dror People Finder Website11_Sam Bergman22_bergman@mindspring.com31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 11:02:48 -0400454_us-ascii We are about to open the People Finder website of the Habonim Dror Foundation, a service for movement alumni. It contains some 7000 records, including yours, of the alumni of the movement, Workshops and camps. While addresses, phone numbers and email addresses not revealed, the site does allow any member to email anyone else anonymously (emails are forwarded without revealing the email address to the sender). You'll see for yourself... [...] 8234 53 38_Re: Habonim Dror People Finder Website10_Gidon Elad21_gidel@hatzerim.org.il31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:57:24 +0200717_iso-8859-8 Kol HaKavod for the new website. Gidon Elad -----Original Message----- From: Sam Bergman To: habonet@shamash.org Date: éĺí ůđé 18 ńôčîář 2000 17:05 Subject: Habonim Dror People Finder Website



>We are about to open the People Finder website of the Habonim >Dror Foundation, a service for movement alumni. It contains some >7000 records, including yours, of the alumni of the movement, >Workshops and camps. While addresses, phone numbers and email >addresses not revealed, the site does allow any member to email >anyone else anonymously (emails are forwarded without revealing >the email address to the sender). You'll see for yourself... [...] 8288 28 25_events on Jewish Holidays0_18_GeeDoubleU@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:28:39 EDT566_US-ASCII Julia, I do not agree with you in the least. I agree with the editor of the paper. I believe it is totally insensitive to scedule events on Jewish holidays. There are few if any meetings scheduled in the entire month of December. A hospital in Seattle is having a major educational offering on recooping one's spirit on the weekend of Rosh HaShanna. When I called the planning commitee to complain I was told that they have Jewish speakers who have chosen to celebrate on Friday night with their families and come on Saturday. I told the women I would [...] 8317 61 29_Re: events on Jewish Holidays0_17_moorejnb@juno.com31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 14:06:55 -0500557_- Wendy--

Thank you for your opinion. I, too, believe that the event was scheduled insensitively.

I also believe that, in an ideal world, all people would have deep respect for each others' holy days, and I will work very hard to make that happen, but we must also realize that we are significantly in the minority in American culture and must not expect to be catered to. All we can do is look into our hearts and make the decisions that are right for ourselves individually and as part of BOTH the Jewish community and secular society. [...] 8379 19 38_Re: Habonim Dror People Finder Website14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:15:46 +0300398_iso-8859-1 The site works fine - I highly recommend EVERYONE to use it and EXPAND it as much as possible!

Kol HaKavod to the chevre who put it together!!!!

Dave Holtzer

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8399 28 29_Re: events on Jewish Holidays0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:14:13 EDT582_US-ASCII On a similar vein, one of the school jurisdictions here in Maryland has proposed mandatory Saturday school for those students who are lagging behind. Fortunately for me, I have just transfered my kids out of that area, but I wonder about those who are still there and may have to go along with it or fight it. When I did have encounters with that school system over similar schedule conflicts, I was told that we live in such a diverse community that they cannot possibly take into consideration all of the holidays various ethnic groups observe, and therfore just go [...] 8428 20 29_Re: events on Jewish Holidays0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:17:20 EDT491_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/18/00 5:15:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Marshlf@aol.com writes:

> As an aside, I hope that few Jewish kids will > need the Saturday remedial program since they are smarter,

Tell me, is this racist, ethnocentric or just thoughtless?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8449 14 29_Re: events on Jewish Holidays0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:30:21 EDT275_US-ASCII yes. also humorous (defusing a serious situation).

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8464 30 38_Re: Habonim Dror People Finder Website0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 18:26:58 EDT424_US-ASCII Folks:

I want to take this opportunity to publicly thank Sam for the enormous effort he has invested in putting together "Habonim Dror People Finder." Even if you don't know too much about computer programming, data bases and the like, you can imagine how much time Sam has invested. He did all of this at his own initiative with no compensation; the reward is knowing he was doing something important. [...] 8495 42 38_Re: Habonim Dror People Finder Website11_David Ferri26_david-ferri@wordmaster.com31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 17:53:42 -0500614_us-ascii At 18:26 -0400 09/18/2000, KBob24@aol.com wrote: >Folks: > >I want to take this opportunity to publicly thank Sam for the enormous effort >he has invested in putting together "Habonim Dror People Finder." Even if you >don't know too much about computer programming, data bases and the like, you >can imagine how much time Sam has invested. He did all of this at his own >initiative with no compensation; the reward is knowing he was doing something >important. > >You can make it a worthwhile....please take the time to go in, update your >own profile and contribute information about other movement [...] 8538 15 10_Re: Gevalt12_Ellen Barkon20_ejbarkon@dellnet.com31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:05:16 -0400330_iso-8859-1 So how do you know what's being referenced in the reply? Especially as they reply may not be immediate?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8554 16 38_Re: Habonim Dror People Finder Website0_18_Yentateleb@aol.com29_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:22:44 EDT335_US-ASCII I deleted the website for the people finder before I copied it. Could yo send it to me again? Janet Weisberger

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8571 29 0_16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com29_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 03:46:57 GMT452_- did I somehow miss the Web Address for the people finder web site? Would someone please publish it again? Thanks

By the way, I've been meaning to publicly say this for a while: Kol Hakavod to Tammy, and the rest of the staff who put together the Mosh reunion. I hadn't thought it possible to see so many faces that I hadn't even thought of in so many years. Three cheers. OK, so who remembers the AMAL trail and how did it get it's name? [...] 8601 118 11_Re: Forward13_Kathee Lavine26_holycowfoods@earthlink.net31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 20:44:53 -0700 8720 27 29_Re: events on Jewish Holidays12_Frances Rudy21_tsip@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:38:24 -0700430_us-ascii Oy vey, Richard! Lighten up! Aren't you familiar with the phrase "Tongue in cheek"???

Tsippi Rudy

At 05:17 PM 9/18/00 -0400, you wrote: >In a message dated 9/18/00 5:15:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Marshlf@aol.com >writes: > > > As an aside, I hope that few Jewish kids will > > need the Saturday remedial program since they are smarter, > >Tell me, is this racist, ethnocentric or just thoughtless? > [...] 8748 21 7_smarter12_Stan Goldman17_stan@inter.net.il31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:20:56 +0200220_Windows-1252 Is there any frooof that Jewish kids are smarter ????



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org 8770 33 26_Habonim Dror People Finder11_Sam Bergman22_bergman@mindspring.com31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:30:32 -0400380_us-ascii I am overwhelmed by the response to the People Finder announcement by Habonetters!! Over 1/3 of the Habonet lis has already logged in to check/update their own record. Of course, Habonet is only 300 or so out of 7000+ records we have, but only Habonet KNOWS about the site for now (and let's keep it that way for another few days until we get everything updated)... [...] 8804 63 30_Re: Habonim Dror People Finder14_Orit Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 05:20:10 -0700 (PDT)547_us-ascii I tried to log in, but apparently my email address is not registered. Continue just puts me back to the login. Is there a jump to create a new user name and password or to fix the glich? Please advise.

--- Sam Bergman wrote: > I am overwhelmed by the response to the People > Finder > announcement by Habonetters!! Over 1/3 of the > Habonet > lis has already logged in to check/update their > own > record. Of course, Habonet is only 300 or so > out of > 7000+ records we have, but only Habonet KNOWS [...] 8868 26 14_Re: AMAL trail11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:29:22 -0400304_us-ascii Don't recall how it got it's name, but I remember one saturday morning when I woke Marty Gruder up early for some spurious reason and he convinced me that if I ever did it again he would take me back on the AMAL tral and break both my arms and legs. Funny the things that stay with you :-) [...] 8895 25 11_Re: smarter8_JON BAUM19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 19:56:04 +0200 8921 47 38_Re: Habonim Dror People Finder Website24_Rosalind Goldfarb Levitt14_rahz@erols.com31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 14:41:31 -0700572_us-ascii Sam - I would like to get off this site. Can you tell me how? I am getting 40-50 emails daily and I have no time to read them all. Ros Goldfarb

Sam Bergman wrote:

> We are about to open the People Finder website of the Habonim > Dror Foundation, a service for movement alumni. It contains some > 7000 records, including yours, of the alumni of the movement, > Workshops and camps. While addresses, phone numbers and email > addresses not revealed, the site does allow any member to email > anyone else anonymously (emails are forwarded without [...] 8969 290 35_Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror4_Ezra26_foundation@habonimdror.org31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 16:00:43 -0400534_iso-8859-1 Kol Hakavod Sharon Fine.

I'm glad you brought up the issue of hiring a Non-Jewish Rosh machaneh. I hope more people have something to say about it. I'm wondering if there is any precedent for it.

What are we talking about here? Is the Rosh supposed to be a dugma as a Jew or a good dugma as a movement member? I don't have the answer for this question, but I can tell you that you are fooling yourselves if you think HDNA criteria for leadership requires any serious knowledge of or interest in Judaism. [...] 9260 27 29_Re: events on Jewish Holidays0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:52:29 EDT604_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/19/00 2:38:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tsip@worldnet.att.net writes:

> Oy vey, Richard! Lighten up! Aren't you familiar with the phrase "Tongue > in cheek"??? > > Tsippi Rudy

Perhaps this was meant "tongue in cheek," though such things are sometime difficult to pick up in writting, but it came after a bunch of comments that bordered on the intolerant and the ethnocentric. Things like, "Jews like to be around other Jews" and the "whole world should stop on Jewish holidays" and other stuff like that. If this comment was meant as a joke then the joke [...] 9288 26 3_Re:0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:59:35 EDT525_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/18/00 11:47:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, marchersh@hotmail.com writes:

> OK, so who remembers the > AMAL trail and how did it get it's name?

I also have no idea how it got its name but I remember in '73, when I was in KMbet, when there was a rumor that the madrichim were going to search our trunks looking for contraband that I took a jar filled with Acapulco gold up the AMAL trail and hid it in a hollow tree. The next day it was gone. Ten years later I ran into a guy who [...] 9315 37 39_Re: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com29_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:35:26 EDT474_US-ASCII Why are you suprised that religion as you tried at camp did not work? You presented the "religios" aspectes of our heritage ( or so it seems to me ) instead of the moral and social values that flow from Judaism.

Look no farthur than the entire Jewish community and see how many ex Habonudnicks are involved in every aspect of Judaism ans especialy it's ledership. From the Rabinet to the UJA to education to the media. NO YOUTH GROUP HAS GIVEN SO MUCH. [...] 9353 76 41_Job Offer - Durban Habo Dror Youth Worker15_David Reinhardt20_david@reinhardts.net31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 23:37:33 +0200361_iso-8859-1 Shalom All

Habonim Dror Southern Africa is looking for a full time youth worker for the year 2001 (preferably to start before our Summer Machaneh in December 2000).

The job is in Durban, a safe coastal town with a small Jewish community. Habo Dror is the major movement although Netzer & Bnei Akiva have limited (if any) presence. [...] 9430 57 39_Re: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:34:28 EDT608_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/19/2000 3:52:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foundation@habonimdror.org writes:

<< What are we talking about here? Is the Rosh supposed to be a dugma as a Jew or a good dugma as a movement member? >>

Sometime in the early '80s I remember being surprised to hear that Mike Hirshhorn was chosen to be Rosh Mosh. I believe Mike's entire introduction to Habonim took place during Construction, and throughout his madrich-hood in 1978(?), the summer I was a first year madricha right before going on Workshop (yeah, it had to be that summer, because he learned about [...] 9488 32 19_To Ezra, with love.9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:45:27 -0400582_iso-8859-1 Dear Ezra: Davening is not the be all and end all of judaism. Many of us, whom I consider to be very good Jews, indeed, are not, necessarily, observant. Habonim, at least in my day, was always intensely Jewish in fact and in spirit, with or without the rites. We always considered "observance" to be a private matter. We had services for those that wanted them, purely as it moved the individual. Shabat and all the other Jewish holidays were always observed and or celebrated, but not necessarily according to the Sidur. The inner spirit of each holiday was always [...] 9521 28 19_We need a volunteer0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:14:02 EDT518_US-ASCII Folks:

As the Habonim Dror Foundation heads into new year of activity, we are want to continue to grow our efforts. One of our projects is to put together some materials - brochures, fact sheets - that sort of thing, that can help us present the organization to potential donors and foundations. What we need is a volunteer or volunteers who can write and do a little graphic design. This can be one person or two people. This is one of those non-financial contributions that could go a long way. [...] 9550 42 21_More on People Finder11_Sam Bergman22_bergman@mindspring.com31_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:19:47 -0400553_us-ascii Shalom, Chevre, Since so many of you have logged in (close to HALF of Habonet) in the first 2 days of operation of the People Finder site, I shall take the liberty of writing another (short) message: 1. Be patient. The database has many shortcomings, but in several weeks of this type of response it will be much much better. It may take a few days for me to catch up (this is just an evening hobby!). Keep the data, comments, complaints and suggestions coming. 2. Use the anonymous "send email to a chaver/a" at your own risk these first [...] 9593 15 11_Re: smarter0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:21:56 EDT360_US-ASCII How about proof that old Jewish kids like to fight with each other a lot - sometimes by looking real hard for something to fight about?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9609 16 11_Discontinue17_Rosalind Goldfarb14_rahz@erols.com31_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 04:48:49 -0400303_us-ascii How do I get off this site? I cannot read the 50+ message I get every day. Ros

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9626 68 27_Fwd: Elat Chayyim Job Offer12_Dennis Gross24_dennisjgross@hotmail.com29_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:01:38 GMT638_-





>From: Elat Chayyim >To: Group D-E >Subject: Elat Chayyim Job Offer >Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:37:49 -0400 > > >Dear friends, > >I am attaching an ad for a job position at Elat Chayyim. Our hope is that >someone in our network of supporters who is looking for an interesting life >situation will apply for this residential position. Will you help us by >posting it anywhere you think it might arouse some interest? If you know >anyone who might be interested, let them know about this opening. We are >looking for a mature, talented and independently motivated [...] 9695 31 16_to Ezra Weinberg0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:19:36 EDT548_US-ASCII I was really impressed by the innovative way you attempted to interest both your staff and the chanichim in the serious side of Judiasm. The vigor being produced by the jewish Renewal Movement as it is usually called, frankly, is more exciting than a lot of what's being battled on this site - and that we've heard for so long. You made a terrific effort, got first class people all the way - and I'm sorry you were so disappointed and received such a negative result. I know there are at least a few people usually at Gallil who are [...] 9727 29 15_RE: Discontinue12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:46:30 -0400515_iso-8859-1 > How do I get off this site? .... > Ros

To unsubscribe, send an email to: listproc@shamash.org (note: NOT to habonet@shamash.org) with this message: unsubscribe habonet

That's it.

Please note (as explained in the monthly FAQ) you always have the option of receiving habonet in "digest mode" -- a single email each day with all of that day's posts in one digest. Many of our subscribers prefer that method as a way of handling all the email traffic that sometimes happens here! [...] 9757 64 116_Pious Spirituality or Upholding the Fatherless, Widow; Befriending the Stranger Providing him with Food and Clothing12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:09:18 +0200559_us-ascii Ezra, I'd like to tell you what a yo-yo response I had to your posting in Habonet 1660: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror. I think it would be more accurate to say that the reflection you behold is your own more than it is that of the movement. Surprisingly, the previous sentence is the genuine yeah part of my letter. You described the reality at Galil very well; made a cogent case for what you tried to do, the planning and execution of the tochnit and the difficulties you encountered. You ended with an honest, courageous, assessment of [...] 9822 45 39_Re: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror0_17_Llamamint@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:24:36 EDT624_US-ASCII Wow Ezra:

I am definitely impresssed to hear of all the conscious and creative actions you took at Galil last summer to try to actually connect zionism to Judaism -

I am an ex Naaleh/Galilnik - who had an absolutely wonderful experience, the best summers of my life- additionally, that is where i started to learn the beauty of shabbat - clean clothes, cleaning beforehand, special avodah, different type of activities, israeli folk dancing- really those were intense times for me - and while there was some semblance of spirituality evoked (i remember one friday evening with some girls dancing [...] 9868 15 10_Correction12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:36:17 +0200275_us-ascii Cobalt should've been Kabalat Shabbat

Amnon

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9884 51 13_People Finder16_beverly schwartz19_beverly@hevanet.com31_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:42:53 -0700216_iso-8859-1 Sam,

I typed in several names to the People Finder. After typing in two of them, I realized that I had made a mistake but I was unable to figure out how to correct it. Is there a way?

Beverly 9936 142 39_RE: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror11_Carol Shore21_c_shore@ix.netcom.com31_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:12:15 -0400568_iso-8859-1 Dear Ezra and the rest of the Habonim Dror community,

Ezra, I have to agree with your conclusion. Even though I did not truly know all the reforms, I saw the impact and implications as only a Madatz can. Yes everyone, we are at a sad state of affairs when religion is treated with indifference. As Rosh ken, I attended a leadership program called Merkaz. It was a wonderful program that made me excited to be co-Rosh Ken of Philly. The most interesting aspect though came when someone gave us the idea to use Jewish holidays as Ken Peulot. When [...] 10079 20 39_Re: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 19:22:15 EDT527_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/20/00 7:17:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, c_shore@ix.netcom.com writes:

> Yes, everyone, we are at a sad state of affairs when religion is treated > with indifference. Wasn't both Habonim and Israel founded by atheists and in some cases people who were actually anti-religion?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10100 572 30_Economic Conditions on Kibbutz9_Norm Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:37:25 -070077_us-ascii This article tells a very sobering tale about kibbutz life of today. 10673 79 34_Re: Economic Conditions on Kibbutz13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:36:14 -0400630_iso-8859-1 Dear Norm,

As someone that lived on Kibbutz for a good part of his life, I read this article very carefully. Part of this new media "image" the Kibbutz movement is getting is coming from the Kibbutz Movements' (both Taka"m and Haartzi) own initiative. Besides the process of unification of the two movements/political and organizational structures, which is ongoing, this "image" campaign is the latest step in trying to recover the state support that has been steadily lost by the kibbutzim since the Likud first came to power in 1977. We should know that chavrei kibbutz are neiter real-estate "magnates" [...] 10753 54 7_Judaism12_Stein, Steve21_Steve.Stein@isacs.com31_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:35:09 -0400592_- MUSINGS: I became orthodox 21 years ago at age 17 and always put Habonim on my list of influences. The Talmud, considered a backbone of orthodox Judaism, maintains that Jews and non-Jews are fundamentally different by nature in rachamim and tzniut. Jews are merciful and modest by nature, and non-Jews are not. That is shorthand for, without even working on his/her personality, a Jew has an inborn trait of mercy and an inborn trait of modesty. Of course the Jew can destroy these inborn traits, and the non-Jew can develop them. But anyway, my experience in Habonim provided me with [...] 10808 232 13_People Finder15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:21:21 +0200566_iso-8859-8 I want to add my appreciation to Sam Bergmann for creating the People Finder!

I have maintained a series of files in ACCESS of former members of H-D now living in Israel. It is different from the People Finder in that it can only be accessed by me and not through the internet. I make it a point, of course, to try to satisfy all requests as to names, addresses, home towns, activities past and present, etc. This was started as file folders of responses to questionnaires sent out by Harold Warshavsky z"l and Eli Zackler z"l (and others, no [...] 11041 17 33_Leo Diesendruck and Poeple Finder9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com31_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:50:31 -0400416_iso-8859-1 Leo, you are truly one of our unsung heroes. The lists you have so carefully amassed and maintained are a treasure. Shana tovah! and continue the good work for many years to come. Ben Cohen

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11059 26 26_HDF Needs an Administrator0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:02:13 EDT506_ISO-8859-1 Dear Habonetters:

You have all gotten a chance to know Ezra Weinberg, either in person, email or through Habonet, over the past year. Ezra will be leaving us in December when his garin heads to Jerusalem. For that reason, the Habonim Dror Foundation is looking for an administrator to begin work in December, 2000. This person has a variety of organizational and management responsibilities. These tasks, addressed while working closely with Habonim Dror alumni volunteers ,include: [...] 11086 108 44_SAG / AFTRA Workers Can Use Your Assistance.0_13_JLCAA@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:55:22 EDT551_UTF-8 Dear haverot and haverim:

The Jewish Labor Committee has been approached to assist the Screen Actors Guild and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists in their recent struggles to secure fair remuneration for their work.

You can help. Please save this message as a file, open it using your wordprocessing program, delete out everything above the line with periods, and - after editing it slightly as you feel appropriate [BUT LEAVING THE POINTS MARKED WITH HYPHENS ALONE] - printing it out on your stationery. [...] 11195 16 30_Re: HDF Needs an Administrator0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:19:37 EDT434_US-ASCII The question is - how will anyone afford that job and live within commuting distance of the national office??? an oxymoron, from what my family members tell me about options near any part of the N.Y. environs.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11212 17 34_Re: Economic Conditions on Kibbutz0_16_YonatonS@aol.com29_Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:39:35 EDT328_US-ASCII Norm: thanks for putting the article on habonet. I found it very disturbing, but very interesting. Yoni

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11230 35 34_Re: Economic Conditions on Kibbutz13_avi rosenberg16_avi@gezer.org.il31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:33:37 +0200665_iso-8859-1 The weekly edition of the Kibbutz Artzi "Kibbutz" newspaper, which appeared yesterday, contained several reactions to the Haaretz article. One reaction, which tends to support Yuval's claim, was a highly defensive response from the mazkirim of Kibbutz Ruhama. They attacked the article for being misleading and giving a false picture of their kibbutz and for not publicizing any kind of reaction from the kibbutz institutions. They also accused the Kibbutz Artzi movement for actively cooperating in the article's one-sided presention, implying that it was for public relations purposes. I might also add that the portrayal of the family at Kibbutz [...] 11266 50 30_Economic Conditions on Kibbitz12_Frances Rudy21_tsip@worldnet.att.net31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:05:27 -0700295_iso-8859-1 I, too, was disturbed by the article on economic conditions on kibbutz, especially after reading the article in Haaretz online English edition about millions of NIS and $ going to ultra-Orthodox institutions and subsidizing individuals. Is anybody else as outraged as I?

Tsippi 11317 63 39_Re: Habonim History/Holding Up a Mirror13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:01:46 -07001126_utf-8 At‭ ‬a‭ ‬personal‭ ‬level‭, ‬Habonim‭ ‬had‭ ‬a‭ ‬major‭ ‬formative‭ ‬impact‭ ‬on‭ ‬most‭ ‬of‭ ‬us‭ --‬ certainly‭ ‬on‭ ‬me‭. "‬Laugh‭, ‬laugh‭ ‬at‭ ‬all‭ ‬the‭ ‬dreams‭, ‬It‭ ‬is‭ ‬I‭ ‬the‭ ‬dreamer‭ ‬who speaks‭"...‬On‭ ‬Kibbutz‭ ‬Lotan‭ - ‬I‭ ‬still‭ ‬dream‭ ‬and‭ ‬believe‭ ‬and‭ ‬live‭ ‬on‭ ‬a‭ ‬very modest‭ ‬standard‭ ‬of‭ ‬living‭ (‬I‭ ‬dont‭ ‬know‭ ‬about‭ ‬poverty‭).‬ However‭, ‬as‭ ‬we‭ ‬are‭ ‬approaching‭ ‬the‭ ‬period‭ ‬of‭ ‬Cheshbon‭ ‬Nefesh‭ ‬maybe‭ ‬we‭ ‬should have‭ ‬a‭ ‬balanced‭ ‬picture‭. ‭ ‬Unfortunately‭, ‬in‭ ‬terms‭ ‬of‭ ‬impact‭ ‬on‭ ‬the‭ ‬BIG PICTURE‭ ‬Habonim‭ ‬was‭ (‬and‭ ‬probably‭ ‬is‭) "‬The‭ ‬Movement‭ ‬That‭ ‬Was‭ ‬Not‭." ‬Too‭ ‬much Habonim‭ ‬hagiography‭ -- ‬no‭ ‬real‭ ‬critical‭ ‬biography‭.‬‮ ‬‮ [...] 11381 24 48_Re: SAG / AFTRA Workers Can Use Your Assistance.7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 18:09:39 +0200411_us-ascii Arie,

Please explain what part Proctor & Gamble has in all of this - isn't it just one of many companies who use advertising companies to make their commercials? (This question is from someone who has not lived in the States for many years....)

By the way, we have tried to avoid buying Proctor & Gamble products for years anyway, because they use animals for their product testing. [...] 11406 55 39_Re: Habonim History/Holding Up a Mirror16_Linda Hirschhorn18_vocolot@sirius.com31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:28:51 -07001041_iso-8859-1 what is this????????????

Michael Livni wrote:

> At� ‬a� ‬personal� ‬level�, ‬Habonim� ‬had� ‬a� ‬major� ‬formative� ‬impact� ‬on� ‬most� ‬of� ‬us� --‬ > certainly� ‬on� ‬me�. "‬Laugh�, ‬laugh� ‬at� ‬all� ‬the� ‬dreams�, ‬It� ‬is� ‬I� ‬the� ‬dreamer� ‬who > speaks�"...‬On� ‬Kibbutz� ‬Lotan� - ‬I� ‬still� ‬dream� ‬and� ‬believe� ‬and� ‬live� ‬on� ‬a� ‬very > modest� ‬standard� ‬of� ‬living� (‬I� ‬dont� ‬know� ‬about� ‬poverty�).‬ > > However�, ‬as� ‬we� ‬are� ‬approaching� ‬the� ‬period� ‬of� ‬Cheshbon� ‬Nefesh� ‬maybe� ‬we� ‬should > have� ‬a� ‬balanced� ‬picture�. � ‬Unfortunately�, ‬in� ‬terms� ‬of� ‬impact� ‬on� ‬the� ‬BIG > PICTURE� ‬Habonim� ‬was� (‬and� ‬probably� ‬is�) "‬The� [...] 11462 36 21_Say it ain't so, Joe.11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:11:47 -0600 11499 15 25_Re: Say it ain't so, Joe.0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:04:15 EDT310_US-ASCII The question is does God start Her day by saying thank myself I ain't Phil Safier. :)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11515 18 25_Re: Say it ain't so, Joe.0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:26:58 EDT490_ISO-8859-1 Phil, that is true. That is the first berakha.

Orthodox apologists have told me that men are obligated to do time-bound mitzvot,while women are not. Therefore men give thanks for not having been born a woman so they can fulfill these mitzvot.

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11534 31 25_Re: Say it ain't so, Joe.11_Roslyn Lang26_langr@gunet.georgetown.edu31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:41:23 -0400334_US-ASCII Women are not obligated - but ARE allowed (something that is often forgotten). Therefore, why give thanks, if anyone CAN fulfill these mitzvot. More likely, they were giving thanks for not being among those destined to die in childbirth (a regular occurrence when these prayers were written, I suspect).

Roz Lang [...] 11566 43 39_Re: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror0_18_Green88888@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:07:47 EDT605_US-ASCII Dear Ezra, I am impressed by your actions to bring some Jewish expression to activities at Galil this summer. The earlier political leaders of Israel, like Ben Gurion, their roots in the Diaspora, recognized the religious character of Israel even though they were not observant-they realized that a people was capable of holding on to a dream for two thousand years if that dream was religiously inspired and nourished. Ben Gurion seemed to be able to work cooperatively with men like Rabbi Kook to make things work. I think that fanaticism on both the religious right (haredim) and some of [...] 11610 23 25_Re: Say it ain't so, Joe.0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:33:18 EDT451_ISO-8859-1 In a message dated Fri, 22 Sep 2000 3:45:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Roslyn Lang" writes:

<< Women are not obligated - but ARE allowed (something that is often forgotten). Therefore, why give thanks, if anyone CAN fulfill these mitzvot. More likely, they were giving thanks for not being among those destined to die in childbirth (a regular occurrence when these prayers were written, I suspect). [...] 11634 57 34_RE: Economic Conditions on Kibbutz11_Carol Shore21_c_shore@ix.netcom.com31_Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:11:48 -0400682_iso-8859-1 Having lived on Kibbutz Ruchama for 6 years, I would be most appreciative if someone could post the article Avi is referring to.

Many thanks. Carol Shore

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On > Behalf Of avi rosenberg > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 2:34 AM > To: habonet@shamash.org > Subject: Re: Economic Conditions on Kibbutz > > > The weekly edition of the Kibbutz Artzi "Kibbutz" newspaper, > which appeared > yesterday, contained several reactions to the Haaretz article. > One reaction, > which tends to support Yuval's claim, was a highly defensive response from > the mazkirim [...] 11692 57 27_RE>Re- Say it ain't so, Joe14_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org24_22 Sep 00 22:29:23 +0000743_iso-8859-1 RE>Re: Say it ain't so, Joe. 9/22/2000 No, she probably says: Thank myself that I'm not Arlene Katz (Mrs. P. Safier)

-------------------------------------- Date: 9/22/2000 3:07 PM To: Steve Schreier From: habonet The question is does God start Her day by saying thank myself I ain't Phil Safier. :)





-------- RFC-822 Header: RECEIVED: from SHAMASH3.SHAMASH.ORG by [38.164.247.3] ; 22 SEP 00 15:07:49 UT Received: (qmail 4248 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2000 19:09:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO shamash.org) (127.0.0.1) by shamash.org with SMTP; 22 Sep 2000 19:09:02 -0000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: habonet@shamash.org Received: (qmail 4114 invoked from network); 22 Sep [...] 11750 38 24_Re: Say it ain't so, Joe11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sat, 23 Sep 2000 09:43:32 -0400578_us-ascii Dear Chevra-

Pity Joe Lieberman--the orthodox attack him for not wearing a kippah at all times, for campaigning on Tisha B'Av, for sometimes taking the subway or a taxi to a crucial Senate vote and whisper that his wife isn't REALLY orthodox with her uncovered head and kneelength skirts. And then the secular/anti-religious Jews like Phil are sure the guy is a fundamentalist sexist who is thanking God for not making him a woman. Never mind that Senator Lieberman himself defines himself not as an Orthodox Jew but a traditional Jew, whatever that means. [...] 11789 47 53_My annual RH/YK "whine"- The other side of commitment0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 23 Sep 2000 14:07:58 EDT556_US-ASCII Dear Chevre... I had lived in the Los Angeles area for 11 years, and managed somehow to "get through" the "Holy Days" by being a "wandering Jew"- moving from one place to another in the hopes of finding the place ("chevrah") that would exemplify my beliefs of not being forced to "pay to pray." At times, I went nowhere, since I refused to give in on this matter, and not only was I often strapped financially (so many times the Holidays came during a shooting break of a few months) and it was embarrassing, but despite the fact that people [...] 11837 495 86_NYTimes.com Article: Amichai, Israel's Most Important and Influential Poet, Dies at 760_17_rbarland@mjds.org37_Sat, 23 Sep 2000 19:17:51 -0400 (EDT)748_- This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by Rosalind Barland rbarland@mjds.org.

Habonet

Let's take a break.

Rosalind Barland rbarland@mjds.org

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Amichai, Israel's Most Important and Influential Poet, Dies at 76 http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/22/continuous/23CND-YEHUDA.html [...] 12333 110 39_RE: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror12_Frances Rudy21_tsip@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 23 Sep 2000 21:14:21 -0700578_us-ascii At 07:12 PM 9/20/00 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Elon Shore,

I have been saving your posting to respond to one or two of your points:

>"I happen to feel that there are some other ways to instill Judasim at >Machaneh. >1. Peulot that revolve around G-d and other central themes of Judaism. I >ran a peulah about G-d for the Tzofim that worked quite well. They sat >and discussed about G-d and the afterlife for 40 minutes. Kids want a >switch from the boring corporate, PC, Israel and group building >activities. They are important but only if used with a [...] 12444 46 24_Re: Say it ain't so, Joe11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Sat, 23 Sep 2000 23:48:12 -0600627_us-ascii Beautiful! And I thought I had irony and sarcasm down. You really got it girl... "Pity Joe Lieberman."

Sheer beauty.

(Jews like) Phil



> >Dear Chevra- > >Pity Joe Lieberman--the orthodox attack him for not wearing a kippah at >all times, for campaigning on Tisha B'Av, for sometimes taking the >subway or a taxi to a crucial Senate vote and whisper that his wife >isn't REALLY orthodox with her uncovered head and kneelength skirts. And >then the secular/anti-religious Jews like Phil are sure the guy is a >fundamentalist sexist who is thanking God for not making him a woman. >Never [...] 12491 41 17_Women and Mitzvot17_Martin J. Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il31_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:57:38 +0200460_windows-1255 24 September 2000

In Habonet Digest 1663, Debby writes "" The Orthos think that a woman may not do a mitzva if she is not required to do so; that would be a "wasted" mitzvah.""

Actually, to the best of my knowledge, Orthodox halachah (as embodied in the G'mara and Shulchan Aruch) is silent regarding whether women are allowed or not allowed to voluntarily perform a variety of mitzvot including wearing of tallit and tefillin. [...] 12533 24 21_Re: Women and Mitzvot0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 02:04:06 EDT389_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/23/00 11:01:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, mgoodman@012.net.il writes:

> In the absence of clear statements to the contrary from acknowledged > Orthodox sources, assertions by Orthodox Jews that women are forbidden to > wear a tallit or perform other mitzvot historically performed only by men > should be regarded as adlibbing of Orthodox theology [...] 12558 28 39_Re: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 11:14:27 EDT591_US-ASCII Dear Tzippy- First- let me say that the wonderful thing about Habonim was our incredible ability to tolerate EVERYONE from the entire spectrum of Judaism. On the East Coast- we had atheists AND Dati chevre ( Alan Feldman went to Yeshiva and was in my kvutzah- and his best friend, Sammy Cooper, used to hang with us despite the fact that he was very very Dati), and I never saw anyone get up and leave a sicha which was controversial- especially when it concerned different ways of believing. Lehefech- OUR madrichim encouraged open and free conversation and argument. And are [...] 12587 52 39_Re: Holding up a mirror to Habonim Dror11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 09:23:14 -0600 12640 125 45_from US News and World report - 18 Sept. 200011_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:56:23 -0400304_iso-8859-1 I found the following piece in the September issue of US News and World Report that I found on a table at my office. I think all may find it interesting and that [erhaps those who feel that Israel has received no benefits from the "peace process" might want to consider this information. [...] 12766 78 39_Re: Habonim History/Holding Up a Mirror0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:19:55 +02001034_ISO-8859-1 michael, you have to find another way to write Habonet, as your messages come out in code or something.... pearl



On 22 Sep 2000, at 18:01, Michael Livni wrote:

At‭ ‬a‭ ‬personal‭ ‬level‭, ‬Habonim‭ ‬had‭ ‬a‭ ‬major‭ ‬formative‭ ‬impact‭ ‬on‭ ‬most‭ ‬of‭ ‬us‭ --‬certainly‭ ‬on‭ ‬me‭. "‬Laugh‭, ‬laugh‭ ‬at‭ ‬all‭ ‬the‭ ‬dreams‭, ‬It‭ ‬is‭ ‬I‭ ‬the‭ ‬dreamer‭ ‬whospeaks‭"...‬On‭ ‬Kibbutz‭ ‬Lotan‭ - ‬I‭ ‬still‭ ‬dream‭ ‬and‭ ‬believe‭ ‬and‭ ‬live‭ ‬on‭ ‬a‭ ‬verymodest‭ ‬standard‭ ‬of‭ ‬living‭ (‬I‭ ‬dont‭ ‬know‭ ‬about‭ ‬poverty‭).‬However‭, ‬as‭ ‬we‭ ‬are‭ ‬approaching‭ ‬the‭ ‬period‭ ‬of‭ ‬Cheshbon‭ ‬Nefesh‭ ‬maybe‭ ‬we‭ ‬shouldhave‭ ‬a‭ ‬balanced‭ ‬picture‭. ‭ ‬Unfortunately‭, ‬in‭ ‬terms‭ ‬of‭ ‬impact‭ [...] 12845 20 35_Sad News - Posted for donna Malamud0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:09:49 EDT343_US-ASCII I just got a phone call from Lisa Wineman (Tavornik, early 70s). Her father, Saul Wineman (aka Paul Winter on public radio and tv) was diagnosed with cancer this week and died Thursday Sept 21. The funeral is Sunday. Lisa Wineman's email address in the Detroit area is lbethf@aol.com

Donna Malamud tlaichas@lalc.k12.ca.us [...] 12866 32 25_Re: Say it ain't so, Joe.0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:09:50 EDT403_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/22/00 3:02:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, psafier@elixa.com writes:

<< In a recent column, Ellen Goodman pointed out something that startled me. She claims that Orthodox Jewish men begin the morning prayer by saying "Thank God I'm not a woman!"



Does Joe Lieberman say this? >>

Believe it or not, I actually know the answer to this question. [...] 12899 36 23_Re: HABONET digest 166417_Rena Cheskis-Gold16_renacg@ntplx.net31_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:24:24 -0400638_us-ascii > Dear Habonet,

I've missed the entire Habonet Lieberman debate until now. I'll just post simply that I know the Liebermans - they go to one of my shuls, I attended their daughter's bat mitzvah, and I know their son (who lives on my block) fairly well. Lieberman and his entire family are well respected and quite middle-of-the-road in this community of traditional observant Jews, most of whom are doctors/lawyers/professors, belonging to 2 orthodox syagogues (one that only meets Friday night), while freely sending their kids to the Solomon Schechter day school, and attend simchas at the local Conservative shul. [...] 12936 40 10_The Choice0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:38:25 EDT538_US-ASCII OK, now that we have discussed the wedding shower at the restricted club, the secular and the akedah, and Lieberman's level of observance (is it good for the Jews?), I have another situation to present and would be interested in the take of chevre...

My agency has made a commitment to examining racism and diversity, which takes the form of a monthly staff meeting for this purpose only. At the last staff meeting, staff was divided into two groups: white allies and women of color (the agency staff is all female). [...] 12977 79 14_Re: The Choice14_Orit Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:26:52 -0700 (PDT)574_us-ascii Could you please provide a little more info? Are the 2 groups debating or discussing the issues independently? What is the purpose of the division? Are racism and diversity discussed in regard to your agency or the world in general? What is your agency? Orit

--- DebALev@aol.com wrote: > OK, now that we have discussed the wedding > shower at the restricted club, the > secular and the akedah, and Lieberman's level > of observance (is it good for > the Jews?), I have another situation to present > and would be interested in > the take of chevre... > [...] 13057 35 14_Re: The Choice0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 00:33:28 EDT373_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/24/00 9:27:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, oritil@yahoo.com writes:

> Could you please provide a little more info? Are > the 2 groups debating or discussing the issues > independently? What is the purpose of the > division? Are racism and diversity discussed in > regard to your agency or the world in general? > What is your agency? [...] 13093 96 14_Re: The Choice14_Orit Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:15:16 -0700 (PDT)423_us-ascii In that case, I would definitely go with the white-ally group. If the purpose of division is to create a situation where the participants would feel comfortable to speak, my presence in the women-of-color group would probably be a nuisance and a deterrent. I'm sure the women would consider me "white," both physically and culturally. I don't think any feelings I have about being racially Jewish apply here. [...] 13190 31 23_Re: Debbie with an "ie"0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 01:45:12 EDT439_US-ASCII

In a Habonet message dated 9/25/00 12:06:20 AM, DebALev@aol.com writes:

<< That's exactly what I was saying.

Debbie with an "ie" >> ================================= Hey Marty!

You know what that sounds like! Wow! Flirting with you on Habonet!

Dorna and I met Debbie in Detroit 2 years ago. Interesting person.

I suggest you follow up and show her you can spell her name correctly. [...] 13222 39 3_REV15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:41:28 +020014_iso-8859-8 REV 13262 29 31_The place of Judaism in HaBonim17_Martin J. Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:37:19 +0200404_Windows-1252 25 September 2000

I regard the recent discussion thread about the place of Judaism in HaBonim to be very important. As I learned from Elihu Davison over 30 years ago, the ritual Judaism taught in Hebrew school ultimately disappoints because it does not sufficiently address the issue of Jewish identity. HaBonim in contrast supplies the national Zionist side of the Jewish coin. [...] 13292 39 3_REV15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:42:00 +020014_iso-8859-8 REV 13332 20 23_Re: Debbie with an "ie"0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:23:29 EDT455_US-ASCII Aw, shucks, Chaver Steve, she said, blushing.

Debbie

PS one of my oldest and dearest friends from the tnua, David Levinstein (yes, a relative by former marriage but that's complicated), STILL refers to me as "Debby."

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 13353 37 14_Re: The Choice0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:33:19 EDT595_US-ASCII Thanks for the response, and perhaps a bit of clarification is in order.

These groupings are based on CULTURAL backgrounds, ostensibly, but end up being about race. Asian and Hispanic women are counted as women of color, as they are seen as oppressed groups. In fact, one of the Hispanic staff originally stayed with the white allies, but was then specifically invited to join the women of color group. She has often said that in her country of origin (Dominican Republic), race is not an issue because there are so many different skin colors; class, however, IS the issue. [...] 13391 18 14_Re: The Choice0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:26:34 EDT374_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/25/00 5:34:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DebALev@aol.com writes:

<< I do not identify Judaism as a "race." It is not. B >>

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 13410 19 14_Re: The Choice0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:28:45 EDT439_US-ASCII In a message dated 9/25/00 5:34:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DebALev@aol.com writes:

<< I do not identify Judaism as a "race." It is not. B >> To open up a can of worms- what about the "Kohanim" gene? ---sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 13430 82 44_Re: The place of Judaism in HaBonim-comments13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:41:16 -0700497_windows-1252 Re Martin Goodman and his comments. 1. The issue is not Jewish identity -- the issue is Jewish COMMITMENT. Commitment means your willingness to invest energy, consistently over a period of time, in something which does not relate to your immediate existential needs. 2. Assuming we are talking about Jewish-ZIONIST commitment to "the continuing evolution of (Jewish) -Zionist values" Martin Goodman and others would be well advised to state them and their opposite. My Examples: [...] 13513 56 7_Re: REV13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:44:21 -0700213_ISO-8859-8 I think your message got lost

---------- From: Leo Diesendruck To: HABONET Subject: REV Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 07:42:00 +0200



REV

13570 61 36_Illegible Posting re Habonim history13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:01:49 -0700150_utf-8 My recent posting was illegible to many. Hopefully a passing glitch. Original posting attached re Habonim History/holding up a mirror Shana Tova 13632 128 27_RE>Re- The place of Judaism14_Steve Schreier13_steve@ats.org24_25 Sep 00 12:12:51 +0000685_iso-8859-1 This "gimilut chasidim" thing..... Wouldn 't that be what you'd say if you were robbing some lubavitch folks?!

-------------------------------------- Date: 9/25/00 11:48 AM To: Steve Schreier From: habonet Re Martin Goodman and his comments. 1. The issue is not Jewish identity -- the issue is Jewish COMMITMENT. Commitment means your willingness to invest energy, consistently over a period of time, in something which does not relate to your immediate existential needs. 2. Assuming we are talking about Jewish-ZIONIST commitment to "the continuing evolution of (Jewish) -Zionist values" Martin Goodman and others would be well advised to state them and their [...] 13761 88 22_recent book on Kibbutz13_Yehuda Riemer20_aminadav@urim.org.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:19:00 +0200643_windows-1255 For anyone interested in a good survey of present-day kibbutz, I should like to recommend the following:

Daniel Gavron, The Kibbutz, Awakening from Utopia, (Lanham, Boulder, New York, Oxford: Rowman & Littlefield Publishers Inc., 2000), 295 pp.

Gavron is an experienced journalist who has been in Irael since 1961, currently living in Jerusalem. His book is a fine piece of reporting. Part I presents five kibbutzim that were hit by the crisis and coped in various ways, Part II explains what went wrong, especially the economic collapse of 1985 and the breakdown of the education system, and Part III presents [...] 13850 56 14_Re: The Choice5_David18_david@friedart.com31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:59:34 -0700433_US-ASCII That is the problem with a culture that divides us based on skin color. The interesting division between those who culturally belong to a women of color category, yet look white and you who don't seem to fit into either group. I would bring up the issue in the large group with both sides there and have that be the topic of discussion for one of your meetings. Maybe you need to redefine the divisions as four groups. [...] 13907 112 35_Habonim Shabbaton at Kibbutz Lotan!0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 19:38:06 +0200672_US-ASCII Chaverim y'karim, shalom, It's time for another reunion cum shabbaton! The shabbaton is being organized beginning 4 p.m. Thursday Nov.16, through Shabbat, November 18, 2000. Like "in days of yore": sichot, kumsitz, oneg shabbat, easy desert walking tours, chavershaft. Experience Shabbat on Kibbutz Lotan, a liberal Jewish renewal kibbutz, a founding member-kibbutz of the zerem shitufi, i.e., the collective stream -- no privatization. If you want to pre-visit Kibbutz Lotan you can do so at www.kibbutzlotan.com The organizers would like chaverim to volunteer for certain tasks, in order to help guarantee the success of our first shabbaton, which we hope [...] 14020 34 18_Yehuda Amichai z"l12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:02:42 +0200604_us-ascii Haverot/im I sent an article from today's Ha'aretz reporting on the Amichai's funeral. I append my own feelings and thoughts.

Yesterday Rivka and I went to say Shalom Haver, to yet another general. The first, shot down by an assasin in Tel Aviv's city hall square was my commander, General Yitzhak Rabin. At Jerusalem's Safra Square Yossi Sarid called Yehuda Amichai, felled by cancer, "the chief of staff in the war to liberate Hebrew literature." He was also my general (definitely lower case g) although I never thought of him quite like that. He liberated Hebrew from the oy and [...] 14055 125 26_Re: recent book on Kibbutz10_Gidon Elad21_gidel@hatzerim.org.il31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:17:52 +0200497_iso-8859-8-i I wholeheartedly support Yehudah's recommendation.gavron has a very sharp eye and a very loving soul people. he views the current AWAKENNING with a special insight. Gidon Elad -----Original Message----- From: Yehuda Riemer To: habonet@shamash.org Date: éĺí ůđé 25 ńôčîář 2000 18:22 Subject: recent book on Kibbutz



For anyone interested in a good survey of present-day kibbutz, I should like to recommend the following: [...] 14181 72 14_Re: The Choice13_Kathee Lavine26_holycowfoods@earthlink.net31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:56:54 -0700594_us-ascii Been there, done that, and in the same venue: the domestic violence movement. Eventually I got scapegoated on the diversity thing at our agency and left. I encountered more anti-semitism at that job than in all my years of life combined. On one side from the women in the shelter themselves (Oregon is fertile ground for anti-semitism, especially outside the urban centers). And on the other from the folks trying to work on the diversity thing. We did alot of diversity work with the staff (and clients) and after doing a recurring workshop the first time and being schmissed by [...] 14254 18 31_Re: RE>Re- The place of Judaism0_16_YonatonS@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:05:41 EDT355_US-ASCII Go Schrier! (give me more loot)

Shana Tova to all. May it be a year of peace, good health and happiness.

Yoni Shultz

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14273 28 13_L.A. Question18_Abba & Dvora Caspi16_adcaspi@home.com31_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 22:57:59 -0400297_iso-8859-1 Hi Susie,

A question for you--

Yael is coming out for a brief visit to a friend in southern California before she returns to Israel. Do you know of any reputable stores in L.A. that sell 220 volt stuff like boomboxes? If so could you send me the name / phone number? [...] 14302 19 22_Re: Yehuda Amichai z"l0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Mon, 25 Sep 2000 23:37:18 EDT417_US-ASCII Thank you, Amnon, for those beautiful words on Yehuda amichai, the most accessible of all Israeli poets. I will remember your words and him this Rosh Hashanah.



Jack Nusan porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14322 92 14_Re: The Choice0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:58:26 +0200593_US-ASCII forgive my ignorance, but what is "diversity" referring to? the words "women of color" means "colored people" I presume. Does that mean "Negroes" (I hear that term is no longer politically correct, forgive me, but I do not know any longer how they are supposed to be called: "black," "Afro-Americans," what is their preferred term today?) or does "color" refer to anything between "white" and "black", like "tan," "yellow," "beige," "red" or "pink". Where would a Jew fit in: "white," "beige" or "tan?" What if there is a Jew who is "white white" and a Jew whose color scheme is [...] 14415 44 59_A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our subscribers!12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:50:11 -0400608_iso-8859-1 Dear friends,

Apparently someone inadvertently emailed a virus-laden email to Habonet which has been distributed out to the list. Here is the message from Shamash.

--brian

-----Original Message----- From: Shamash Help Staff [mailto:help@shamash.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 7:46 AM To: Brian Cooper Subject: Re: virus via shamash/habonet?



Brian-

[Someone] infected with the KAK worm and has sent it to your list. ListProc cannot stop this virus, but [...] all your ... subscribers should ... use a program to search and destroy this worm. [...] 14460 39 63_Re: A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our subscribers!11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:08:06 -0400583_us-ascii Brian Cooper wrote:

> Dear friends, > > Apparently someone inadvertently emailed a virus-laden email to Habonet > which has been distributed out to the list. Here is the message from > Shamash. > > --brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shamash Help Staff [mailto:help@shamash.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 7:46 AM > To: Brian Cooper > Subject: Re: virus via shamash/habonet? > > ...Someone forwarded the virus back to the list when he said "Jewish kids know > how to use a spell checker". So the worm went to the list twice now this > month. [...] 14500 59 45_From the Israeli Peace Movement to Ch. Arafat0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:37:35 EDT488_US-ASCII Chevre, Shana Tova

You may be interested in adding your names to this effort to "do something" to help achieve closure in the Peace Process. Our World Labor Zionist Movement has worked with this Mate Hashalom group at Camp David, at the UN and elsewhere.

Forward any comments or support to RAZNONA@aol.com by 5PM EDT Wednesday, NY time (midnight Israel time). Their intention is to give the "petition" to the Palestinian representative to the UN at that time. [...] 14560 86 13_[Fwd: A Song]11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:12:25 -0400297_us-ascii Dear Chevre-

I am posting this on behalf of a friend who is teaching music at our Hebrew School. She is a Mosh alumna and is teaching a new generation hebrew with the songs we sang in shira. Can any of you help her?

Shana tova l'kulam (including Jews like Phil)- Judy Gelman 14647 15 63_Re: A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our subscribers!0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 22:43:13 EDT317_US-ASCII so just exactly what is it we need to do about this virus? Lots of us aren't yet that savvy.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14663 107 11_Fw: A Song]29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:03:43 -0400452_iso-8859-1 this is exactly as i remember it.

oddly enough, someone has put passover words to this tune; it was performed by a group of children as part of the Theodore Bikel Passover special on PBS last spring.

-esther cohen mosh 70-75



----- Original Message ----- From: "Judy Gelman" To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 8:12 PM Subject: [Fwd: A Song] [...] 14771 84 22_Fwd: Fw: Joe's Song...0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:40:13 EDT60_US-ASCII This came from my cousin, the doctor.

Debbie 14856 62 63_Re: A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our subscribers!18_Abba & Dvora Caspi16_adcaspi@home.com31_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:58:29 -0400466_iso-8859-1 You can find out more about the KAK worm at the following site:

http://vil.nai.com/vil/virusChar.asp?virus_k=10509

Here are excerpts:

This is an Internet worm which uses JavaScript and an ActiveX which called "Scriptlet Typelib" to propagate itself through email using MS Outlook Express. This worm consists of 3 components, an HTA file (HTML Application), a REG file (Registration Entries Update) and a BAT file (MS-DOS Batch). [...] 14919 24 63_Re: A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our subscribers!0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Wed, 27 Sep 2000 00:05:20 EDT522_US-ASCII Interesting. So that leaves me with three questions:

If I don't have Outlook, can I get the virus?

If I get the virus, what does it do?

If I don't have Outlook and therefore cannot catch the virus (if that's the answer to question #1), can I transmit it?



Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14944 17 10_Shana Tova5_Cohen21_hnrcohen@mediaone.net31_Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:00:39 -0700314_iso-8859-1 Best wishes for a healthy and happy New Year.

>From Ronnie & Hilda Cohen



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 14962 22 63_Re: A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our subscribers!22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:34:03 -0500441_- If I uderstand this correctly, as long as I don't hve Internet explorer 5 or higher, I'm OK? None of those messages have shown up, and I haven't been shut down. Do I need to do anything? Debbie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. [...] 14985 63 15_Re: Fw: A Song]7_Frankie19_ganenet@pacbell.net31_Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:49:51 -0700585_us-ascii Ha kinor mizamer Mizamer v`oomer

Hakinor mizamer Mizamer v`omer

Ha clarinet Haclarinet Shadua dua dua b`emet

Ha tof ha tof Rak shnei tzlalim Bim bam bim bam Bim bim bim bim bam

Shana Tova, Frankie Meppen

Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen wrote:

> this is exactly as i remember it. > > oddly enough, someone has put passover words to this tune; it was performed > by a group of children as part of the Theodore Bikel Passover special on PBS > last spring. > > -esther cohen > mosh 70-75 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Judy [...] 15049 20 63_Re: A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our subscribers!18_Abba & Dvora Caspi16_adcaspi@home.com31_Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:25:28 -0400355_Windows-1252 As I understand it, this virus only affects computers on which Internet Explorer 5 is installed.

You could check if your PC is affected by going to Start/Find/Files or Folders and then typing kak.* (don't forget the period) in the "Named" box, looking in (usually) your C: drive. If it doesn't find anything I think you're clear. [...] 15070 655 23_Re: HABONET digest 166717_yoninamatz lamdan20_yoninamatz@yahoo.com37_Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:18:57 -0700 (PDT)584_us-ascii

--- Habonim Dror Alumni Virtual Machaneh wrote: > > HABONET Digest 1667 > > Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Re: The Choice > by skolnik@netvision.net.il > 2) A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of our > subscribers! > by Brian Cooper > 3) Re: A virus has been sent to Habonet by one of > our subscribers! > by Noam Stopak > 4) From the Israeli Peace Movement to Ch. Arafat > by NEVETS2@aol.com > 5) [Fwd: A Song] > by Judy Gelman > 6) Re: A virus has [...] 15726 85 15_regarding virus12_Ellen Barkon20_ejbarkon@dellnet.com31_Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:29:50 -0400315_iso-8859-1

Hello all, My computer identified a 'Trojan' virus in an email sent to Habonet on/around 9/20. I did send an email to the person whose message it came with. My anti-virus (Norton) took care of it, in that it was unable to 'fix' the file so it isolated the virus and then I deleted the file. [...] 15812 38 15_Re: Fw: A Song]0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 01:50:54 EDT498_US-ASCII

In a message dated 9/27/00 11:05:29 AM, ganenet@pacbell.net writes:

>Ha kinor mizamer >Mizamer v`oomer > >Hakinor mizamer >Mizamer v`omer >

etc. etc.

But there's also this one:

Hachatsotsra ra ra ra ra U'vchalili lilili lilili U'vkaninor niriram niriram Paamon rishon bim bim bam bim bim bam Paamon sheni bim bim bam bam bam

It's one of my favorite rounds from Habonim days - we sang it the night before the New York kumsitz this past June. [...] 15851 25 17_Re: Ha tof ha tof0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 03:53:53 EDT443_US-ASCII

In a message dated 9/28/00 12:09:54 AM, habonet@shamash.org writes:

<< Ha tof ha tof Yesh Lo Rak shnei tzlilim Bim bam bim bam Bim bim bim bim bam>>

Sephard version

Shana Tova, Chaver Steve

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 15877 42 17_more on KAK virus12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:52:25 -0400364_iso-8859-1 While the Shamash help staff can't really answer specific virus questions, they correctly point out that people need to have adequite virus protection on their system if they are connected to the Internet. Virus definitions are updated frequently, users should update their virus definitions for their virus protection software on a monthly basis. [...] 15920 17 29_HELP!!! URGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:02:46 EDT458_US-ASCII HI- I need Barry Krasner or Shlomo Cohen's phone numbers- We have a member who0 is in Washington and would like to go to a "progressive" type place for the Holidays- Can anyone help ??????? Thanks- Sue Liberman- ( Liberhawke@aol.com)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 15938 21 33_Re: HELP!!! URGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:08:44 EDT522_US-ASCII sue-- does your friend need home-place or shule-place? i'm going away or i'd certainly love to have guests, but i can offer them my seats at my very progressive/reconstructionist shule--mishkan torah-- in greenbelt. let me know; leave tomorrow before lunch. (301)438-9729.

shana tovah, lisa

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 15960 55 15_Re: Fw: A Song]29_Richard Steacy & Esther Cohen22_richard.steacy@gte.net31_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:20:56 -0400410_iso-8859-1 (in the "how petty can we get" category - and this is what brings me onto the habonet??) i'm afraid i have to challenge your memory - or maybe the song evolved in the twenty-some years since i was singing it... (see below) -esther cohen mosh 70-75+ ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 1:50 AM Subject: Re: Fw: A Song] [...] 16016 16 33_Re: HELP!!! URGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!18_Abba & Dvora Caspi16_adcaspi@home.com31_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:23:35 -0400284_iso-8859-1 I'm sending you the phone numbers privately.

Caspi

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16033 14 8_Re: Song0_15_Marshlf@aol.com29_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:30:54 EDT256_US-ASCII sounds like time for a kumsitz.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16048 22 13_The Orchestra0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:06:54 -0400456_us-ascii We sang this for Shira at the Mosh Reunion. The missing voice is:

Ha shofar, hashofar Tu (11)

Unfortunately, can't sing it in e-mail. The English verse is The Trumpet. Hope a memory of the tune kicks in.

Shelly

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16071 44 19_Progressive DC shul11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:26:26 -0400577_us-ascii Dear Chevrei-

Yes, there is progressive Judaism in the DC area. T

Try Adat Shalom or Oseh SHalom, both Reconstructionsit congregations.

I haven't been to Oseh SHalom for the HH, so I can't tell you how wonderful that is, but Adat SHalom has, arguably, one of the pleasantest services musically that I have ever been to plus good politics, theology, warm people etc too. I have been happily attending for 8 years. This will be mine nineth HH with AS and I look forward to it in a way I never used to when a member of a COnservative synagogue. [...] 16116 44 10_Shana Tova7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:07:31 +0200565_us-ascii For everyone at Habonet, a story (it seems our name mechayev [obligates us]):



When Rabbi Avraham Yitzchak Hacohen Kook was Chief Rabbi of Jaffa, he heard that Baron De Rothschild had ordered trees in one of the Jewish settlements to be uprooted so that a house could be built.

The Chief Rabbi went to the settlement and when the workers came with axes in their hands, ready to do the job, he stood in front of them and said: "What is going on here? Are you planning on uprooting trees in the Land of Israel? This is not going to [...] 16161 16 23_Shana Tova and Thanks!!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:38:15 EDT391_US-ASCII I would like to thank eveeryone who jumped in to help me find a progressive shul in the D.C. area.... And to wish everyone a Shan Tova u'mtukah- Shnat Shalom!!! susie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16178 18 14_Re: Shana Tova0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:44:21 EDT351_US-ASCII A Shanah Tovah to everyone from me and my kids Dani and Gabe, my former wife--Miriam Almuly, my mother Faygeh in Minneapolis, my brother Shlomo in Baltimore, my sister Bella Yenta in Minneapolis, and from my entire congregation Temple Emmanuel in Chelsea, Mass (come and visit us)to all of you--a g'benched yuhr--Rabbi Jack Nusan Porter [...] 16197 35 38_Israelis and Palestinians as Neighbors17_Martin J. Goodman19_mgoodman@012.net.il31_Sat, 30 Sep 2000 10:14:08 +0200415_Windows-1252 30 September 2000

Chevreh Shalom:

On the 28th of September, I attended the COMDEX Computer Technology Exhibition in Ganney HaTa'aruchah in Tel Aviv. Although the exhibition was filled with many eye-popping technological advances, the most interesting thing for me was the participation of about half a dozen Palestinian companies that were tucked away in a corner of the Exhibition. [...] 16233 22 42_Re: Israelis and Palestinians as Neighbors5_Ethan24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 30 Sep 2000 11:23:55 +0200362_Windows-1252 NERO 4.0.5.6 SERIAL N°: 1483-5324-5234-7245-9896

ezcd creator 4 NAME:Any

BUSINESS:Any

TSID#:110010629931



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 16256 15 42_Re: Israelis and Palestinians as Neighbors5_Ethan24_schwar1@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 30 Sep 2000 11:25:02 +0200272_Windows-1252 oops sorry i was trying to forward to Marty

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=