1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet August 2000 2 19 60_Check out Haaretz Daily Newspaper - English Internet Edition0_15_Emabear@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 01:09:38 EDT462_US-ASCII Norm, We had the same question. Maybe this article will help.

Click here: Haaretz Daily Newspaper - English Internet Edition



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 22 50 12_(no subject)16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:32:55 -0400584_us-ascii YOU MAY BE A REDNECK IF... A full moon reminds you of your mother-in-law pullin' weeds. A night on the town includes city jail. All of your relatives' cars have "Tag Stolen" signs in the rear window. All of your relatives would have to die to wipe out illiteracy. All your favorite shirts came with a two-pack purchase of cigarettes. All your Tupperware is old butter containers. All your wall decorations have horns on them. All your wedding guests were seated on the same side of the church. An expired license plate means another decoration for your living room. Any [...] 73 47 26_Re: Presidential Elections13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:23:58 -0400587_iso-8859-1 I woke up at 4 am this morning with thoughts about Israel, the Knesset, the presidential vote, etc. I couldn't figure out how the vote count came to be 63 x 57. Not one vote missing, very rare in the history of Knesset votes.

One has first to remember three things: It is the first time that an immigrant from Middle Eastern Arab countries is elected President of Israel, the first time that a resident of 'ayarot pituach' (development towns) is elected President, and the first time that a Likud candidate, wether Likud is in government or opposition, is elected [...] 121 66 26_Re: Presidential Elections8_JON BAUM19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 18:27:43 +0300601_iso-8859-1 The election of the State Comptroller is also by secret ballot. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yuval Warshai To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:23 PM Subject: Re: Presidential Elections



> I woke up at 4 am this morning with thoughts about Israel, the Knesset, the > presidential vote, etc. I couldn't figure out how the vote count came to be > 63 x 57. Not one vote missing, very rare in the history of Knesset votes. > > One has first to remember three things: It is the first time that an > immigrant from Middle Eastern [...] 188 18 26_Re: Presidential Elections11_Don Goelman31_goelman@tiger.csc.villanova.edu36_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:14:56 -0400 (EDT)413_us-ascii > One has first to remember three things: It is the first time that an > immigrant from Middle Eastern Arab countries is elected President of Israel,

Wasn't Yitzhak Navon from Iraq?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 207 154 15_Re: forethought11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Tue, 01 Aug 2000 11:22:25 -0600 362 36 26_Re: Presidential Elections13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:44:58 -0400573_iso-8859-1 As far as I remember, Yitzhak Navon's family from one of the sides may have come to Jerusalem from somewhere in the ME, but the other side, the dominant one, was a samech"tet (sefaradi tahor, supposedly going back to Sefarad as in Spain at the time of the 1492 expulsion) living for many generations in Jerusalem. Yitzhak Navon himself, if I am not mistaken, was born in Jerusalem, and even though he may have learned to speak Arabic, I believe his mother tongue was pre-State Sephardic Hebrew. He was a samech"tet member of the old Mapai elite, a good try [...] 399 62 15_Re: forethought13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:09:43 -0400339_iso-8859-1 Great essay. Maybe a dickhead without a foreskin has a skull which is a little less thick too? But you also got me curious by saying:

>now that we learn that Abraham didn't remove the entire foreskin,...

I didn't 'know' that; sorry for the ignorance, but where do we (you?) learn about it from? Thanks, ___ |Y| ^^^ 462 84 11_Re: Zionism13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Tue, 01 Aug 2000 22:07:10 -0700661_US-ASCII With all due respect to definitions of Zionism as registered in general dictionaries, we cannot expect them to reflect the dynamics of modern Jewish and Zionist history. These dictionary definitions of Zionism are essentially Herzlian and reflect the outside world's general understanding.

However the Zionist relevance for Judaism today is Achad-Haamist. Cultural Zionism. Sure this is my opinion -- but not only mine. See for example -- LEVEL SUNLIGHT, by Maurice Samuel, Knopf 1953 or the statement by one of Americas outstanding political Zionists Rabbi Abba Hillel Silver in 1950 -- "Herzls political triumph now paves the way for the [...] 547 85 59_Re: Stupid politics (should be titled malignant education).12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:45:25 -0500 (CDT)565_us-ascii Dear Michael,

Your insights regarding Arab education reinforce what many of us have been saying. There is almost no desire or intent among Arab leadership to conclude a real peace with Israel. The failure of the recent negotiations make that clear. What Israel should do given that situation is not clear, but the intent of the people with whom Israel is negotiating should be kept in mind. At this point assuming that there is sort of magic concession that Israel can make that will bring true "Sulcha" would appear to be delusional thinking. [...] 633 36 11_Re: Zionism0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:10:53 EDT404_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/1/00 3:31:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ml-lotan@zahav.net.il writes:

<< With all due respect to definitions of Zionism as registered in general dictionaries, we cannot expect them to reflect the dynamics of modern Jewish and Zionist history. These dictionary definitions of Zionism are essentially Herzlian and reflect the outside world's general understanding. [...] 670 20 15_Re: forethought0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:02:59 EDT431_US-ASCII Not shur if the subject is foethought or foreskin . However howelse could we have a party seven days after being born. Would we get all those presents . And learn to apreciate (?) that red sweet wine. In my case how else would I have my picture with Meier Ariel's son hanging in Israel. Would you give up all thes goodies just to look Christian or Budist orwhatever? Never forget that you can pass as a Muslam Baruch [...] 691 20 11_Re: Zionism0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:02:57 EDT452_US-ASCII Then there are amongst us some who long to live in Israel and for many reasons are still in galut. Many of us have tried and have returned all for one reason or another and we never should ask why for each the reason is personal. However our interests and hearts are still with that crazy state called Israel , even if Peres lost again. Some of us still believe (hope ? ) that Jews and Arabs can live in peace and in a small area. Baruch [...] 712 25 11_Re: Zionism11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:07:12 -0700531_us-ascii Thank you for stating this so eloquently.

BERNSARA@aol.com wrote:

> Then there are amongst us some who long to live in Israel and for many > reasons are still in galut. Many of us have tried and have returned all for > one reason or another and we never should ask why for each the reason is > personal. However our interests and hearts are still with that crazy state > called Israel , even if Peres lost again. Some of us still believe (hope ? ) > that Jews and Arabs can live in peace and in a small [...] 738 419 61_Fwd: "A Breakthrough:" PLO's View on Results of Camp David II0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:37:13 EDT650_UTF-8 In a message dated 8/1/00 7:05:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, IsraelHr writes:

<< s passing along this piece from the PLO Autonomy Authority's official web site on the results of the recently-concluded Camp David II summit. Thanks to IMRA for the forward.

Hezi Daus Webmaster, Israel News Online TO JOIN OUR MAILING LIST, send us e-mail. e-mail: <IsraelHr@aol.com> Winner, Jewish Agency for Israel's "Top 10 Sites" Award, August and December 1999 Winner, HaReshima's "Best of the List" Award, Nissan 5759 [...] 1158 76 21_L'fi Mordechai Kaplan0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Wed, 2 Aug 2000 01:05:04 EDT568_US-ASCII I thought we might have some fun putting this in our collective pipe and smoking it.

Chaver Steve

What did I say? ================================================================

Rabbi M. K. Kaplan

Jewish Peoplehood: The Mystical Element in Jewish Religion

The self-identification of the individual Jew with his Jewish people is the source of the mystical element in the Jewish religion. That that is so becomes evident when we stop to consider what it is we characterize as mystical in any experience that we undergo. [...] 1235 81 25_Re: L'fi Mordechai Kaplan11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Tue, 01 Aug 2000 22:15:44 -0700614_us-ascii Prolific.

NEVETS2@aol.com wrote:

> I thought we might have some fun putting this in our collective pipe and > smoking it. > > Chaver Steve > > What did I say? > ================================================================ > > Rabbi M. K. Kaplan > > Jewish Peoplehood: The Mystical Element in Jewish Religion > > The self-identification of the individual Jew with his Jewish people is > the source of the mystical element in the Jewish religion. That that is so > becomes evident when we stop to consider what it is we characterize as > mystical in any experience that we undergo. > [...] 1317 105 59_Re: Stupid politics (should be titled malignant education).13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:26:45 -0700460_US-ASCII Shalom Dov You write: "What Israel should do given that situation is not clear." Truer words were never spoken (written). Unfortunately, doing nothing is probably not a viable option. So I reluctantly go with the Barak initiative as the lesser evil in the hope that in the long run "globalization" will change Arab values. I agree that this is very uncertain but I(srael is too globally linked to survive without Western support. Be well Michael [...] 1423 18 31_Re: Zionism ( Sharon's posting)0_18_Judithb253@aol.com28_Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:09:33 EDT338_US-ASCII Thank you Sharon!!! I'd hate to think of all the people who do much, much work on behalf of Israel - especially the older generation to whom it was as much a religion as davening, being told they aren't what they thought they were, and their many activities didn't count as important because of the 'new' definition. Judy b [...] 1442 104 33_Spare the rod (was 'forethought')11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:37:25 -0600 1547 16 14_Re: NY Kumsitz0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:36:29 EDT446_US-ASCII I have a copy of the video of the Kumzitz--I'm searching to see who made it. I just came back from Europe and moved into a new apt so I very fartumelt, but Ihave a copy. I just need to dig it out of my pile. Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1564 17 37_Re: Spare the rod (was 'forethought')0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:46:59 EDT370_US-ASCII Oh, of course; why didn't I think of that...we know it from that great Talmud chacham, Bobby D. Silly me, I had been wondering too.

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1582 69 22_CNN stand on Jerusalem11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org30_Wed, 2 Aug 2000 15:24:35 -0500437_us-ascii A friend of mine passed on the following message. I checked CNN's weather page and this information is correct. I have no idea when the listing change occurred, but I thought you would be interested and might want to register a complaint with CNN. Linda Joy Goldner

> > According to the CNN weather map, Jerusalem is no longer part of Israel. > > If one goes to the weather page of the Cable News Network, one would [...] 1652 20 11_RE: Zionism0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il30_Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:27:20 +0300269_US-ASCII sharon, I was asked to give my definition of zionism and I did. I did not look it up in a dictionary, I wrote what I felt it was and what I was taught in Habonim. I did not state it as a fact and I certainly do not understand what got your tail up. pearl [...] 1673 19 26_Re: Presidential Elections0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il30_Wed, 2 Aug 2000 23:27:20 +0300434_US-ASCII Navon, born in Israel, Machaneh Yehuda was named after a grandfather of his, if I am not mistaken. Don, call my sister Nechama. Mom sent her all your father's letters that Dad saved for some 70 years!!!! pearl

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1693 126 11_Monthly FAQ12_Jennifer Kay19_kay@elvis.rowan.edu31_Thu, 03 Aug 2000 02:32:03 -0400421_- Actually-from:BCooper@descartes.com

Hi Chevre,

Here is a reminder of the "essential" commands that you can use to configure your subscription to Habonet. I will post this monthly from now on. Please note -- The address for commands is: listproc@shamash.org whereas the address for posts to the list is: habonet@shamash.org If you need any help with any of it, send me an email: BCooper@descartes.com [...] 1820 14 12_Announcement12_Stein, Steve21_Steve.Stein@isacs.com30_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 08:42:31 -0400346_- Sara Stein was born 7/26/2000 to Howie Stein (Galil 73-78) and wife Adina at Jeanes Hospital in Philadelphia. She's rather cute.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1835 24 7_Looking14_Barry Grushkin26_103640.2135@compuserve.com30_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:59:16 -0400291_us-ascii I have a friend who is looking for a situation in Israel potentially a kibbutz to live and work for a while. Can anyone offer any suggestions? She is really quite flexible as for what she might do.

Send a message to me or to her -- Victoria Larkin at victoryus@juno.com [...] 1860 18 24_Need place to stay in DC0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 13:49:33 EDT339_US-ASCII I'm going to DC for a sociology conference, the Am. Sociological Association, and I need a place to stay from August 11-15. Will pay for food. It's much more heimish than staying at a hotel. I'll be arriving prob. by train Friday, the 11th. If just until Monday, that's cool too. Thank you---Jackie Porter, Tavor and Machon. [...] 1879 16 28_Re: Need place to stay in DC0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:54:56 EDT290_US-ASCII Sorry to miss you-- I won't be around that weekend.

Rachel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1896 490 47_Palestinian Summer Camp Offers the Games of War11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:32:07 -0400162_us-ascii

I think I found some of what I was looking for...

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/080300palestinian-camp.html



2387 40 43_CNN responds to Jewish Power on Jerusalem!!0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:16:08 EDT571_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/3/00 6:24:54 PM, CNN.Reply@turner.com writes to Chaver Steve:

<< Please be advised that as of approximately 1:00 pm EDT, Thursday, Aug. 3, CNN.com's main weather page listing of "Jerusalem" was changed to "Jerusalem, Israel." On the Jerusalem weather page, we have added the following: "The status of Jerusalem, the seat of Israeli government, is the most contentious issue in the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. Palestinian and Arab leaders consider part of Jerusalem the capital of the prospective Palestinian state." [...] 2428 32 47_RE: CNN responds to Jewish Power on Jerusalem!!12_Yarosla, Zev24_ZYarosla@bos.co.la.ca.us30_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:25:38 -0700418_iso-8859-1 The new CNN asterisk in which they explain the context of Jerusalem in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is almost as insulting as the original gaffe.

How about an explanation on the Kuwait weather page that Kuwait remains the most contentious issue in the Iraqi-Kuwaiti dispute?

How about a little note on the Azerbijan weather page about the dispute between the Azeris and the Armenians? [...] 2461 16 47_Re: CNN responds to Jewish Power on Jerusalem!!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 21:13:51 EDT350_US-ASCII Zev- You are "singing to the choir"--Why not copy your points to the CNN people! -- I am sure most of us agree with you!- Sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2478 42 13_Fw: criticism9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com30_Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:21:36 -0400710_iso-8859-1 You see, if one complains, sometimes you get results. See CNN's response below. Ben Cohen -----Original Message----- From: CNN Reply To: 'bencee@rcn.com' Date: Thursday, August 03, 2000 7:08 PM Subject: RE: criticism



>Please be advised that as of approximately 1:00 pm EDT , Thursday, Aug. 3, CNN.com's main weather page listing of "Jerusalem" was changed to "Jerusalem, Israel." On the Jerusalem weather page, we have added the following: "The status of Jerusalem, the seat of Israeli government, is the most contentious issue in the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks. Palestinian and Arab leaders consider part of Jerusalem the capital of [...] 2521 78 21_A Bridegroom of Blood12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:06:16 +0200576_iso-8859-1 Shalom Phil, OK, now we can talk, now that you wrote >Perhaps this helps explain >my need to tweak the noses of whoever appears to avoid the examined >life. In the name of examining life I can take a tweak or two. So lets talk. Like observing or not observing the laws of kashrut there are a number of reasons to practice brit milah or to refrain from the practice. I feel that adducing health as an argument in either case is intellectually disingenuous or at the very least a contingent-situational rather than a categorical argument. For instance, see what [...] 2600 65 23_Re: Zev responds to CNN0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:49:21 EDT451_US-ASCII

In a Habonet message dated 8/4/00 12:10:43 AM, Zev Yaroslavsky writes:

<< From: "Yarosla, Zev" To: "'habonet@shamash.org'" Subject: RE: CNN responds to Jewish Power on Jerusalem!! Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:25:38 -0700

The new CNN asterisk in which they explain the context of Jerusalem in the Israeli-Palestinian dispute is almost as insulting as the original gaffe. [...] 2666 21 0_12_Simon Walker21_sihwalker@hotmail.com29_Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:09:38 GMT469_-

Dear Steven,

Please disconnect me from Habonet. sihwalker@hotmail.com

Thanks, Simon ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2688 17 25_Re: A Bridegroom of Blood0_17_Shulansid@aol.com28_Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:12:52 EDT380_US-ASCII What's the matter, Amnon, my quote from Shimon Djigan " Ich hob gehat a bris, und es felt mich gornisht" wasn't good enough an explanation????

Shula

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2706 44 47_RE: CNN responds to Jewish Power on Jerusalem!!16_Sharon Weissbach18_sgweis01@iglou.com36_Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:08:40 -0400 (EDT)576_US-ASCII I got the same reply from CNN. I am equally outraged. You should send your examples in a note to them although they clearly are not too worried about being fair.

On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Yarosla, Zev wrote:

> The new CNN asterisk in which they explain the context of Jerusalem in the > Israeli-Palestinian dispute is almost as insulting as the original gaffe. > > How about an explanation on the Kuwait weather page that Kuwait remains the > most contentious issue in the Iraqi-Kuwaiti dispute? > > How about a little note on the Azerbijan weather page [...] 2751 16 25_Re: A Bridegroom of Blood0_18_Judithb253@aol.com28_Fri, 4 Aug 2000 19:54:10 EDT414_US-ASCII Thanks, Amnon, that dissertation will truly be very helpful in real life discussions we find ourselves in from time to time with lots of 'modern Jews'. Hope I can remeber it when I need it!

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2768 126 35_Summer camp includes lessons in war14_Paul Fingerman29_paul.fingerman@mindspring.com31_Sat, 05 Aug 2000 07:42:04 -0700509_iso-8859-1 From wire.ap.org/APnews (Associated Press) web site -- refer to the site for the pictures that go with this story...Full story is being carried in AP-supported newspapers today, 8/5. I saw it in the San Francisco Chronicle.

AUGUST 04, 13:18 EDT

Palestinian Kids Learn Warfare

BY JASMINA KELEMEN Associated Press Writer

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) — Four blindfolded children, chosen as the most nimble-fingered, raced to see who could first assemble an assault rifle. [...] 2895 49 12_Help! Quick!0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Sun, 06 Aug 2000 01:46:51 -0400443_us-ascii Mosh reunion is drawing nigh. The ad/memory/roster book is coming along beautifully. Thank you to all who bought ads and sent in memories. A special thanks to our chevre at Galil - your ad was most thoughtful.

Now I need help. I would like to include a list of our roshei machaneh and shlichim over the years. I will list what I can and I hope some of you will be able to fill in the rest. Thanking you in advance. Shelly [...] 2945 123 102_Fw: One of Israel's leading writers and peace activists reconsiders the Palestinians' deisre for peace13_Pearl Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il30_Sat, 5 Aug 2000 22:38:57 +0300816_ISO-8859-8

----- Original Message ----- From: mellick family To: ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2000 2:29 AM Subject: Fw: One of Israel's leading writers and peace activists reconsiders the Palestinians' deisre for peace



> > ent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 9:52 AM > Subject: FW: One of Israel's leading writers and peace activists reconsiders > the Palestinians' deisre for peace > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Uri Bank [SMTP:ubank_il@yahoo.com] > > Sent: α 31 ιεμι 2000 16:51 > To: belon@knesset.gov.il > Subject: One of Israel's leading writers and peace activists [...] 3069 88 23_Re: HABONET digest 161417_Rena Cheskis-Gold16_renacg@ntplx.net31_Sun, 06 Aug 2000 10:45:17 -0400281_us-ascii > Dear All, > I'll be flying to the Tavor reunion and staying at Machaneh. Is there anyone driving to camp from home that might be able to help me out by bringing me a pillow, sheets, and blanket? If so, could you please respond to me privately at: renacg@ntplx.net. [...] 3158 67 13_FW: Jesus Day12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Sun, 6 Aug 2000 12:42:32 -0400469_-

> Received the following email. I haven't authenticated it myself, so if > it's bogus I apologize. > -Sharon > > > > > > << ......So, I'm reading my email and I come across something > > > concerning Gov. George Bush. It was out of the Washington Jewish > Weekly > >and > > > stated that Gov. Bush had declared Jesus Day in Texas. I must > admit > >that > > > I > > > thought the article had to be B.S. > > > > > > I went to the Washington Jewish Weekly [...] 3226 24 13_Re: Jesus Day0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com28_Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:31:28 EDT409_US-ASCII I too received email regarding Bush's Jesus Day proclamation and did go to the website to authenticate it. Then I forwarded it to a friend who works for a local newspaper who forwarded it to the political editor. He was not terribly interested. I've searched the print media unsuccessfully for a reference. Non-Jewish friends to whom I forwarded it (selectively) were equally appalled as I was. [...] 3251 97 13_RE: Jesus Day11_Carol Shore21_c_shore@ix.netcom.com30_Sun, 6 Aug 2000 14:50:52 -0400505_iso-8859-1 I went to the Jesus Day site and read about tzedakah activities which went on in many locales, big city to rural. The official governmental level involvement, like in Texas, was clearly disturbing.

Everyone notice that Dubya's proclamations of Jesus being his best friend do not lead into statements of love and support for Israel, as did Clinton's Christianity. His father was no friend of ours and his vp choice has extension relationships with Big Oil throughout the Arab world. [...] 3349 22 38_I'm Coming To George's (NOT W) defense0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Sun, 6 Aug 2000 15:37:21 EDT478_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/6/00 2:54:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, c_shore@ix.netcom.com writes:

> His father was no friend of ours I am not a fan of Georgie W. at all, (If you don't believe me ask Brian Cooper) but George Sr. did kick the shit out of Iraq (not as much as he should have but quite a bit nonetheless) which eventually led to the peace with many of the Arab countries and the peace talks with the PLO. I think George Sr. did "us" a big favor there. [...] 3372 18 30_Holocaust Comments Cause Furor0_19_abarland@execpc.com30_Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:14:16 -0400506_iso-8859-1 From: Alan Barland < abarland@execpc.com > Subject: Holocaust Comments Cause Furor Thought you'd be interested in what I found at MyWay.com courtesy of Voyager: link: http://voyager.myway.com/features/news/default.asp?format=f&ap_track=NBRK&newsidx=121971086&cat=300 More fuel....

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org ----------------------- 3391 31 17_Re: FW: Jesus Day0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Sun, 6 Aug 2000 20:55:16 EDT403_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/6/00 9:44:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, FineS@MLHS.ORG writes:

> http://www.governor.state.tx.us/Proclamations/May00/5-00Jesus.html

Sharon, I went to that web site. There is nothing about a Jesus day...in fact, the above link doesn't work. You have to go to http://www.governor.state.tx.us and I looked under "Proclamations" and this is not there at all. [...] 3423 11 13_RE: Jesus Day0_15_emabear@aol.com36_Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:18:38 -0600 (MDT)326_- Thought you might be interested in reading this web page: http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/jesusday.htm

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 3435 482 23_RE: HABONET digest 16178_freedmas15_freedmas@bc.edu30_Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:20:55 -0400630_ISO-8859-1 Shelly, Oded Artzi and his wife, Tziona, were shlichim at Mosh in, I believe, 1959 and 60, and were located in Washington during the two years they were on schlichut.

I look forward to the reunion and am sending in my registration today, Sara Freedman

>===== Original Message From habonet@shamash.org ===== > HABONET Digest 1617 > >Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Help! Quick! > by cbma@erols.com > 2) Fw: One of Israel's leading writers and peace activists reconsiders the Palestinians' deisre for peace > by "Pearl Skolnik" > 3) Re: HABONET digest 1614 > by [...] 3918 16 23_Re: HABONET digest 16170_13_JLCAA@aol.com28_Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:59:53 EDT373_US-ASCII Oded and Tziona may have been in DC through 1961. Aaron Shoref was Rosh Ken in DC during the same period and is now Mazkir at Gesher Haziv. Avi Lyon

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 3935 55 34_Re: Holocaust Comments Cause Furor14_David Friedman18_david@friedart.com31_Mon, 07 Aug 2000 13:22:21 -0700423_US-ASCII What an interesting time this is. On the one hand Rabbi Ovadia Yosef speaks his plainly offensive racist statements that help tear apart the Jewish people and Israelis alike. That personally offend and embarrass me as a secular Jew. And, on the other hand, we hear about George W. Bush proclaiming Jesus Day in Texas. And, on the other foot, we have Al Gore announcing an Orthodox Jew to be his running mate. [...] 3991 24 31_re Lieberman for vice president0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Mon, 7 Aug 2000 16:59:27 EDT540_US-ASCII While I belive Gore made a great choice in picking Lieberman for Vice President I am very distressed with the news coverage. The empasis on his beining Jewish is all wrong. It has nothing to do with his qualification for the office. Lets look at his record and be very happy. His religious affiliation shold have no more imprtance than anyother persons running for office. Until we can ignore race, religion, and color we are not truly free of predudice. Be proud yes among ourselves but this should not be an election issue! [...] 4016 27 35_Re: re Lieberman for vice president22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com30_Mon, 7 Aug 2000 17:29:05 -0500509_- But religion is an issue for all the candidates. We are upset about this Jesus Day thing because Bush has made it so plain that his faith serves as a major guidance system in his life. Gore has made no secret of the importance of his faith in his life, either. And while it would be nice if none of this matters, we are naive to think it does. And it sure doesn't help anyone when members of the Knesset go on TV and say that a Jewish vice-president is going to be a help for Israel. Talk about taking [...] 4044 33 30_Does it really get this silly?0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Mon, 7 Aug 2000 23:57:38 EDT659_US-ASCII SUMMARY OF EDITORIALS FROM THE HEBREW PRESS ------------------------------------------- (Government Press Office) 7 August 2000

Hatzofeh criticizes those whom it claims are libeling and slandering Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and adds: "What is no less severe is the fact that radio stations have broadcast what sounds like the voice of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef saying these things, and on television, his figure is seen speaking these words. Since it is clear that the Rabbi is simply not capable of saying such things, the conclusion is that those who are slandering Rabbi Ovadia Yosef are not satisfied with spreading mendacious reports about him but [...] 4078 16 19_Jesus Day/ NY Times0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com28_Tue, 8 Aug 2000 00:29:36 EDT433_US-ASCII It took three months since the proclamation was made in May, but the New York Times finally got wind of the Jesus Day story. It's on p.17 of the Sunday National edition on a page covering "The 2000 Campaign."

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4095 21 35_Re: re Lieberman for vice president0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Tue, 08 Aug 2000 01:10:40 -0400393_us-ascii On NPR today, a caller said that Clinton's inner circle was "topheavy" with Jews and that the selection of Sen. Lieberman was "irresponsible". I couldn't decide whether the caller was an antisemite or paranoid Jew (as in, let's not call too much attention to ourselves). Personally, I'm delighted and starting to feel an excitement I couldn't muster when it was just about Gore. [...] 4117 530 44_Re: HABONET digest 1617-Oded and Ziona Artzi13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Mon, 07 Aug 2000 20:16:11 -0700621_ISO-8859-1 Re Oded Artzi (zichrono l'bracha). The Artzis were on shlichur for at least a year in Vancouver as well.

---------- >From: freedmas >To: habonet@shamash.org >Subject: RE: HABONET digest 1617 >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 09:20:55 -0400 >

> Shelly, > Oded Artzi and his wife, Tziona, were shlichim at Mosh in, I believe, 1959 and > 60, and were located in Washington during the two years they were on > schlichut. > > I look forward to the reunion and am sending in my registration today, > Sara Freedman > >>===== Original Message From habonet@shamash.org ===== >> HABONET Digest [...] 4648 19 28_Re: Need place to stay in DC0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Tue, 8 Aug 2000 22:16:48 EDT439_US-ASCII Me too. I wanted to talk to you. Just got back from the grand conference, the Lady Maxwell Conference at Oxford, also Paris and London. I guess I'll stay a night at the Intern;l Hostel and maybe a friend at the ASA will have a spot at the Marriot Wardman. What subway stop is the Wardman if you know? My best---Jackie Porter We will meet one day soon. I may come down to speak at the Museum; also do you come to Boston ever? [...] 4668 30 11_No on Nader11_Carol Shore21_c_shore@ix.netcom.com30_Tue, 8 Aug 2000 22:18:37 -0400624_iso-8859-1 With all due respect to those who are considering voting for Nader - please understand that every single Nader vote will help deliver Big Oil, Big Business, anti-environment, anti-choice conservatives to the White House. Their goal for the nation is to have every person, young and old, exercise their God-given right to enter a school, nursing home or house of worship with a concealed gun, a right Texans enjoy today. Their far right supporters were muzzled during last week's convention with promises that once in office, the NRA will operate from the Oval Office. Cheney, with his years traveling around [...] 4699 17 14_Re Rabbi Yosef0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Tue, 8 Aug 2000 23:31:42 EDT395_US-ASCII Don't you remember that we all had at one time or another bad teachers. Unfoutunatly some like Rabbi ( bad term in this case ) Yosef seems to have recieved tenure. Baruch

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4717 21 15_Re: No on Nader0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Wed, 9 Aug 2000 10:51:12 EDT365_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/8/00 10:22:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, c_shore@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< With all due respect to those who are considering voting for Nader - please understand that every single Nader vote will help deliver Big Oil, Big Business, anti-environment, anti-choice conservatives to the White House. >>

I agree Carol 100% [...] 4739 22 42_Democratic Convention Hall Passes needed!!0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:59:21 EDT454_ISO-8859-1 I know this is a very long shot, but I'm wondering if anyone out there has the clout to get Hall Passes for 2 Smithsonian employees? (hopefully one of them being me!)

The curators of the exhibition on the Presidency (the project I started working with today)just came up with the idea that we could get some useful info for the exhibition by seeing the process in action, so we're all checking around to see how we can squeeze in. [...] 4762 316 14_Maybe on Nader14_David Friedman18_david@friedart.com31_Wed, 09 Aug 2000 08:38:20 -0700549_ISO-8859-1 > << With all due respect to those who are considering voting for Nader - please > understand that every single Nader vote will help deliver Big Oil, Big > Business, anti-environment, anti-choice conservatives to the White House. >>



To throw some less "conventional" thinking into the pot on Nader...read McChesney below. I could also send a fun Michael Moore column on the subject to anyone interested. As to what effect Lieberman will have on people's decision making process I find interesting. (Including my own). [...] 5079 37 18_Re: Maybe on Nader0_14_Ohanka@aol.com28_Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:31:32 EDT404_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/9/00 10:39:23 AM, david@friedart.com writes:

<< To throw some less "conventional" thinking into the pot on Nader...read

McChesney below. I could also send a fun Michael Moore column on the subject

to anyone interested. As to what effect Lieberman will have on people's

decision making process I find interesting. (Including my own). [...] 5117 81 18_Re: Maybe on Nader14_David Friedman18_david@friedart.com31_Wed, 09 Aug 2000 10:01:10 -0700551_US-ASCII Sam and Hank,

The problem with thinking "real world" is that you always get the same result. I don't want Bush anymore than you do, but to make decisions based on reactionary thinking gets you more of the same "right"-thinking political centrists. Nader has addressed economic issues to the core of things. It is true that Nader has gotten virtually no press but he does have a good head on his shoulders and I have trust that he is more for the good of the people of this country than Bush or Gore. I believe Gore is a good man, [...] 5199 56 18_Re: Maybe on Nader11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:03:17 -0400565_us-ascii I come in somewhere in the middle.

I'm with Molly Ivans (sp?) who recently wrote that if you live in a contested state, then vote for Gore (for the upcoming supreme court nominations if nothing else). If not, vote for Nader to assure a 5% or better showing for the Green Party and (perhaps) the end of the lock the two major parties have on our elections. It has always shocked me how little discussion I hear about the fix the major parties implemented in the name of campaign finance reform after Watergate. I think Maryland will go for Gore [...] 5256 21 18_Re: Maybe on Nader0_13_JLCAA@aol.com28_Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:04:18 EDT507_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/9/00 12:02:10 PM EST, david@friedart.com writes:

<< The problem with thinking "real world" is that you always get the same result. I don't want Bush anymore than you do >>

The problem with NOT thinking "real world" is that you get Bush.

Avi

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5278 132 25_Re: A Bridegroom of Blood11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Wed, 09 Aug 2000 15:12:44 -0600668_iso-8859-1 Let's see... "freighted with an emotive load," "strident and Jewishly hollow." What am I, the Haddassah lady?

At 12:11 AM 8/5/00 EDT, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 08:06:16 +0200 >To: habonet@shamash.org >From: Amnon Hadary >Subject: A Bridegroom of Blood >

>Like observing or not observing the laws of kashrut there are a number of >reasons to practice brit milah or to refrain from the practice. I feel >that adducing health as an argument in either case is intellectually >disingenuous or at the very least a contingent-situational rather than a >categorical argument. >This also applies to health [...] 5411 48 51_Wreck of the Struma has been found in the Black Sea11_Katz, Alisa22_ABKatz@bos.co.la.ca.us30_Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:25:47 -0700650_iso-8859-1 here's news for everybody... don't let it bother you that it's in Turkish, there's a button to push for English! -- Alisa Belinkoff Katz





Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 17:08:00 -0700 (PDT) From: esra danacioglu

Dear All

Struma was a Jewish refugee ship left Constanta harbour for Palestine with a total of 769 passengers and crew in December 1941. However because of both the pressure of the British (upon the Turkish Government for preventing the ship from passing through the Straits) and the miserable condition of the ship, Struma had to stay two and a half months in Istanbul, [...] 5460 20 18_Re: Maybe on Nader0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Wed, 09 Aug 2000 18:13:38 EDT358_ISO-8859-1 I find i interesting that this discussion has, so far, been totally male. Of course, unless you are very progressive and "get" womens rights as human rights, y'all might not have any idea of what is at stake here.

I'm old enough to remember when pregnancy was not voluntary. Birth control was difficult and abortion was not available. [...] 5481 48 18_RE: Maybe on Nader11_Carol Shore21_c_shore@ix.netcom.com30_Wed, 9 Aug 2000 22:22:38 -0400622_iso-8859-1 Hey Debbie,

I am happy to remind you that this conversation has not been totally male. I originally made the case for No on Nader. Carol

> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-habonet@shamash.org [mailto:owner-habonet@shamash.org]On > Behalf Of DebALev@aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 6:14 PM > To: habonet@shamash.org > Subject: Re: Maybe on Nader > > > I find i interesting that this discussion has, so far, been > totally male. Of course, unless you are very progressive and > "get" womens rights as human rights, y'all might not have any > idea of what is at stake here. > [...] 5530 26 16_Nader, and Rikud17_Rena Cheskis-Gold16_renacg@ntplx.net31_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 00:39:50 -0400567_us-ascii Two comments on very different topics: 1) I say send money to Nader, but vote Gore-Lieberman. Ideology is great, but not when it serves to put the Republicans in power.

2) Harriette Yeidel and I were just talking about rikud for the upcoming Tavor reunion. Remember singing and doing couples' dances to Ayzeh Yofi, Pa'am Achat Bachur Yatza, V'David Yafeh Eynaim, and more? If you are coming, do NOT plan to stand around and NOT dance; I've been dancing ever since my years at Tavor, and I suspect NO dance crowd will ever be as fun as a bunch of [...] 5557 38 18_Re: Maybe on Nader0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:00:58 EDT558_US-ASCII I have seen this article as well as Michael Moore's a number of times today. Neither has changed my thinking.

Again, this is, for women, a basic civil rights issue that cannot be risked. Too bad you don't see it that way.

My late father in law once considered running for vice-president with his friend Norman Thomas, too, but decided against it as it would have taken votes away from Democrats, even though he was not at all happy with them. He considered practicality over idealist purity because he felt too much was at stake. [...] 5596 20 18_Re: Maybe on Nader0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 01:03:38 EDT466_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/9/00 7:27:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, c_shore@ix.netcom.com writes:

> I am happy to remind you that this conversation has not been totally male. > I originally made the case for No on Nader. > Carol Sorry, Carol.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5617 51 20_Re: Nader, and Rikud14_David Friedman18_david@friedart.com31_Wed, 09 Aug 2000 23:32:50 -0700603_US-ASCII Well, perhaps your idea is correct for now Rena...but don't totally discourage my ideology, chevre, as it keeps me thinking that we can change things for the better today and tomorrow. You may think I am naive asking you to think about supporting some "never-can-win" independent...but it never hurts to seriously consider "What if..." It is this kind of thinking that helped build Israel and it is this kind of thinking that makes peace a possibility against all reason. Vote for who you will, but keep pushing toward how you want things to be while resigning yourselves to lesser evils. [...] 5669 39 33_Tisha B'Av service at "Our Kotel"0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:55:55 EDT596_US-ASCII Haverim,

The Masorti Movement had its first Tisha B'Av service at "our Kotel" last night and it was a very moving event. After a delay caused by the fact that the site was not opened at the time we had requested (we will be investigating why that happened), so that we davened Ma'ariv at the entrance to the site, we then descended to the Robinson's arch area. The number of people who attended exceeded our expectations. There were several hundred, including a group of Russian speakers brought in from Netanya by our colleague Ervin Birnbaum, more people than had attended [...] 5709 22 11_Ralph Nader0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 08:25:42 EDT617_US-ASCII I am perturbed by the number of Haboneters who are expressing support for Ralph Nader. While Nader's "anti-corporation" views appeal to the knee-jerk leftees among us, I would think his isolationist and protectionist views would bother a few people at least. A search of his web site finds no mention of Israel or the Middle East at all as if such things should not concern a presidential candidate. His foreign policy views are simplistic, isolationist and are limited to his opposition to selling arms to "dictators" around the world. Does this include Israel? One would never know from reviewing his [...] 5732 26 19_Nader and Brit Mila17_Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 10:09:20 +0200548_us-ascii 1. Voting for Nader

In my opinion as long as politics is perceived as the art of the possible in the eyes of the participants there remains a chance to make the situation better. As soon as politics becomes the quest to make a perfect society all is lost. As I read the discussion about voting for Nader, it struck me that his great appeal in the opinion of those who advocate voting for him is that he promises to deliver the perfect society while the expectation from the other fellow is to only make things a little better. [...] 5759 30 18_Re: Maybe on Nader22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 09:34:43 -0500571_- Here's another women's voice on Nader. Ditto to everything Debbie said on the matter of women's rights. And on another issue altogether - although I greatly admire Ralph Nader, what on earth qualifies him to be president? He has run a large non-profit organization, is he now qualified to run a country, let alone be "the most powerful person in the world"? Bush, at least, has run a state, and been close to national politics all his life. Gore has been the vice-president, surely the best training ground for the job that there can be. I'm not crazy about Gore, [...] 5790 20 24_The song Sachki, Sachki?0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:11:46 EDT391_US-ASCII Hi all, Shari here.

Can someone give me the words to the song Sachki, Sachki and tell me who wrote it and when? This would be great!!

Thanks, Shari Troy

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5811 29 28_Re: The song Sachki, Sachki?11_Don Goelman31_goelman@tiger.csc.villanova.edu37_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:37:46 -0400 (EDT)269_us-ascii Shaul Tchernichovsky. I'll try to look up when and the words.

Don

> > Hi all, > Shari here. > > Can someone give me the words to the song Sachki, Sachki and tell me who > wrote it and when? This would be great!! > > Thanks, Shari Troy > > > [...] 5841 33 28_Re: The song Sachki, Sachki?13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:00:29 -0700462_US-ASCII First two verses in Hebrew and English on the dedication page of my book REFORM ZIONISM:TWENTY YEARS Michael Livni Gefen 1999

---------- >From: Shulansid@aol.com >To: habonet@shamash.org >Subject: The song Sachki, Sachki? >Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:11:46 EDT >

> Hi all, > Shari here. > > Can someone give me the words to the song Sachki, Sachki and tell me who > wrote it and when? This would be great!! > > Thanks, Shari Troy > > > [...] 5875 18 28_Re: Need place to stay in DC0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 17:40:48 EDT323_ISO-8859-1 Sorry, never heard of the Wardman!

I'm no longer at the HOlocaust Museum...

Rachel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5894 46 28_Re: The song Sachki, Sachki?13_Pearl Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 11 Aug 2000 00:30:09 +0300350_iso-8859-1 shalom, Saachki, Sachki was written by Tchernichovsky if I am not mistaken. sachki, sachki ahl hachlomot zu ani hacholim sach sachki ki ba-adam a'amin ki odeni ma'amin bach (sing last two lines twice)

ki od nafshi dror shoefet lo m'chartiha l'eigel paz ki od a'amin gam ba'adam gam b'rucho ruach az (last two lines sing twice) [...] 5941 18 46_Re: Democratic Convention Hall Passes needed!!0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:54:18 EDT352_US-ASCII Dear Rachel--Try contacting Steve Grossman of Newton, Mass. or his his company in Somerville, Mass.-- Massachusetts Envelopes Plus. He's running for governor of Massachusetts, and has some clout with the Clinton/Gore people. Call him in Newton, Mass. Or try to get a press pass; that's how i usually get in--Good luck!--Jack Nusan Porter [...] 5960 46 27_the new White House changes11_Roz Barland17_rbarland@mjds.org31_Thu, 10 Aug 2000 20:13:03 -0500342_us-ascii TOP TEN WAYS THE WHITE HOUSE WILL CHANGE WITH LIEBERMAN AS V.P.

10) Air Force One to be renamed - "El Al Gore.".

9) Tipper to be referred to as "The First Shiksa."

8) Saturday Night State Dinners to be replaced by Sunday Night Chinese.



7) Inauguration to be completed with Breaking of Glass. [...] 6007 18 31_Re: the new White House changes0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Fri, 11 Aug 2000 16:45:02 EDT523_ISO-8859-1 Sure is amazing how fast such things get around...

For more amusement, go to washpost.com and find yesterday's short bit on some quips -- not even ghost written, I believe! -- showing that Lieberman has a sense of humor (The Washington Post, Style section, page C3, 8/10/00).

Rachel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6026 43 24_American video in Israel16_Miriam Bernhardt24_miriam_b@neve-ilan.co.il31_Sat, 12 Aug 2000 13:56:14 +0200508_us-ascii Dear friends, Help. My daughter, Nechama (Mosh '70) is due for a visit in a few days with husband and baby. She has a Sony video camera which was purchased and used in the States. (We have a multi-system TV and video, so that we can admire the vidoes of the baby that she has sent - that's the whole point of the thing.) I would also like to have a camera here which does NTSC, so that we can send family pictures to them. (Someone explained to me in the past why it is very hard in the States [...] 6070 30 15_Re: No on Nader11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Sat, 12 Aug 2000 10:32:27 -0600499_us-ascii The DNC has requested that concerned Jews help with the image issues raised by the selection of Sen. Lieberman.

It seems that some of our Black brethren view Jews as wealthy white folk who exploit people of color and stand in the way of their liberation. Go know.

In order to counter this unfortunate impression, I have suggested that we gather Jews of different hues and position them on the podium next to Sen. Lieberman to demonstrate that the Jewish tent is big too. [...] 6101 65 40_"Our Kotel" or Don't sit where they fell12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 12 Aug 2000 22:29:48 +0200546_us-ascii Steve, It's because I love you that I badger and nudge anew every 9th of Av and every Shavuot. This year you forwarded Brother Reuven Hammer's letter about "our kotel" and I was reminded of Leonard Cohen's question "brother, by whose plan?" >We sat at the foot of the Kotel, next to the broken pavement from Temple >days and the pile of huge stones that sit where they fell when the >Romans pushed them from the top of the wall in the year 70. We sang the >sad songs of Zion, studied midrashim on the destruction, read Eicha, Me? I [...] 6167 30 44_Re: "Our Kotel" or Don't sit where they fell0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 12 Aug 2000 19:57:40 EDT578_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/12/00 12:19:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, amriv@netvision.net.il writes:

<< ones and trees (wood) - etzim v'avanim is Jewish shorthand for idol worship >> I am not so sure this is a good generalization- What about "Etz Haim He"???? I was under the impression that trees had a special place in Judaism....And to defend Chaver Steve a little- I believe that the symbolism he was alluding to was the fact that these stones represented the life of our people long ago which was lost. I don't think it is so bad to remember this place in our [...] 6198 56 7_Beshert0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 12 Aug 2000 20:19:00 EDT430_UTF-8 Dear Chevre- For the past year, I have been looking for another "job"- For a while, I was lazy about it, but for the past 8 or so months, I was faxing my resume daily, going out on a few interviews, and coming home terribly depressed at the fact that I had lost my film career (to Canada) and the prospects of finding another career at my age which would be meaningful was looking more and more to be an impossibility. [...] 6255 70 11_Re: Beshert12_Frances Rudy21_tsip@worldnet.att.net31_Sun, 13 Aug 2000 08:32:11 -0700624_UTF-8 Sue,

Beshaa tova umutzlachat!

Good luck.

Tsippi ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2000 5:19 PM Subject: Beshert



Dear Chevre- For the past year, I have been looking for another "job"- For a while, I was lazy about it, but for the past 8 or so months, I was faxing my resume daily, going out on a few interviews, and coming home terribly depressed at the fact that I had lost my film career (to Canada) and the prospects of finding another career at my age which would be meaningful was looking more and [...] 6326 150 44_Re: "Our Kotel" or Don't sit where they fell0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sun, 13 Aug 2000 02:11:38 EDT403_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/13/00 12:03:19 AM, Amnon Hadary writes:

<< >We sat at the foot of the Kotel, next to the broken pavement from Temple >days and the pile of huge stones that sit where they fell when the >Romans pushed them from the top of the wall in the year 70. We sang the >sad songs of Zion, studied midrashim on the destruction, read Eicha, [...] 6477 53 21_Beshert (God Help Us)12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 13 Aug 2000 17:09:25 +0200436_us-ascii Sue, First the brakhah. B'shaah Tovah. This job sounds very much like you. We're sure that you will do well at it. You wrote >"What the Hell"- My >film experience showed I could work with people and be organized. Rivka and I remember the outstanding organizing you did in Houston years ago when I was a scholar in residence there - and you certainly have people skills. So as they say in your old profession, break a leg! [...] 6531 37 25_Re: Beshert (God Help Us)0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:08:10 EDT602_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/13/00 6:59:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, amriv@netvision.net.il writes: << Like M'gilat Esther, not a mention of God here. Unless you want to stretch a point :) and claim Shaddai.

Remember how *Jewish* we were when we used to sing Bialik's "L'mi Todah, L'mi Brakhah" instead of both the motzi and birkat hamazon at camp? >> Dear Amnon- First- Thanks for the "bracha" ( from whenst does that come? Do YOU believe in a Higher Power???- ).....I am not sure I understand your drash, however. I was always under the assumption that something "beshert" was "meant to [...] 6569 80 11_Re: Beshert13_Pearl Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:54:20 +0300577_UTF-8 Hi Sue! So so happy to read your letter and feel your happiness at getting this new challenging job. I hope it is everything you wish for. Much success! love, pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 3:19 AM Subject: Beshert



> Dear Chevre- > For the past year, I have been looking for another "job"- For a while, I was > lazy about it, but for the past 8 or so months, I was faxing my resume daily, > going out on a few interviews, and coming home terribly depressed at the [...] 6650 188 44_Re: "Our Kotel" or Don't sit where they fell13_Pearl Skolnik24_skolnik@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 13 Aug 2000 23:59:04 +0300586_iso-8859-1 yesher koach Steve. pearl ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 9:11 AM Subject: Re: "Our Kotel" or Don't sit where they fell



> > In a message dated 8/13/00 12:03:19 AM, Amnon Hadary > writes: > > << >We sat at the foot of the Kotel, next to the broken pavement from Temple > >days and the pile of huge stones that sit where they fell when the > >Romans pushed them from the top of the wall in the year 70. We sang the > >sad songs of Zion, studied midrashim [...] 6839 31 34_Re: Beshert (God Help Us)--Apology0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 13 Aug 2000 20:10:20 EDT553_US-ASCII Dear Amnon- I hope you weren't offended by my response to your "bracha"= I guess what I am confused about is a mystical problem...I have been somewhat confused lately with "brachot"-- (I had a lively discussion with my son about a week ago at dinner about "Baruch ata Adonai- and the concept of our "chutzpah" to even think we have the "power to "bless God"- and what does He need anyway with our "blessing"???)- Avi said it was to remind us to be humble--OK- The Drashes come and go--but the words are there and they bother me (Why at my [...] 6871 16 5_Zelda14_Barry Grushkin26_103640.2135@compuserve.com31_Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:42:26 -0400318_us-ascii Can someone give me a reference for some more works by the poet Zelda?

-Barry Grushkin

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6888 445 12_(no subject)0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com29_Mon, 14 Aug 2000 18:41:56 EDT124_US-ASCII We hope many of you will be interested in joining us!! Register now..........and bring some of your Israeli friends 7334 33 9_Re: Zelda17_Rena Cheskis-Gold16_renacg@ntplx.net31_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 00:41:44 -0400337_us-ascii Barry, I'm reminded about the Alan Sherman song about Zelda that I learned at Machaneh, "My Zelda! My Zelda! She took the money and she ran with the tailor! (Everybody now: My Zelda....) But I don't suppose that's what you meant?

Rena Cheskis-Gold p.s. I really do like Zelda's poems. I just couldn't resist this... [...] 7368 15 3_so?0_17_Geokat100@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 03:48:02 EDT318_US-ASCII For those of us who were unable to make it this time around, what was the Tavor reunion like?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7384 27 5_Zelda12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:59:31 +0200342_us-ascii Barry Shalom, You wrote > Can someone give me a reference for some more works by the poet Zelda? Oy, I finally made it. I allways wanted to be a someone. So noblesse oblige, here goes: ZELDA, Hakibbutz Hameuchad Publishing House (Hebrew)an anthology of seven of her works. If find that especially "Makom Shel Esh" speaks to me. [...] 7412 47 7_Re: so?0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:16:17 EDT620_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/15/00 12:48:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Geokat100@aol.com writes:

> For those of us who were unable to make it this time around, what was the > Tavor reunion like?



The Tavor reunion was absolutely FANTASTIC. Kol hakavod to Arlene Michaels Miller and the others who put it together. It was great seeing everyone - some I had not seen since 1968 (you do the math; I'm too tired). Lots of photographs, which hopefully will be posted online eventually. Lots of conversations...and it was kind of wierd, too. Very strange to see folks that I--ahem---"made out" with, [...] 7460 22 13_Tavor reunion0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:03:05 EDT459_US-ASCII For those of us who were at the Tavor reunion 5 years ago, the only question was whether anything could top that. This was its equal at stirring up wonderful and warm feelings. The drive down the road into camp through the arbor of trees into that world of our youth was magical. Every person acknowledges at some level that this place, this movement, our experiences here formed us in a fundamental way, and these reconnections feed our souls. [...] 7483 24 9_Re: Zelda0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:42:00 EDT373_ISO-8859-1 <<"My Zelda! My Zelda! She took the money and she ran with the tailor!>>

I believe that's "She took MY money and..."

By the way, does any know the real words for this song? I think it's Harry Belefonte. I haven't heard the song since I was a kid, when I made up the words I couldn't understand behind the accent, so the way I remember it was: [...] 7508 20 9_Re: Zelda0_17_Geokat100@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:57:42 EDT403_US-ASCII Matilda, Matilda, Matilda, She took my money and run Venezuela.

That's all I remember.

(... my Zelda found her big romance when I broke the zipper in my pants, ...)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7529 19 9_Re: Zelda0_14_BUBELE@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:51:00 EDT344_US-ASCII I think it goes........

"Ma-tilda, Maa-tilda, Took me muhnee and run Venezuela"

Great song, great singer.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7549 14 9_Re: Zelda0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:25:13 EDT238_US-ASCII ran venezuela

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7564 20 9_Re: Zelda22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:15:52 -0500534_- My Zelda....she took me money and ran wid de tailor (members of Hadassah!).. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7585 21 9_Re: Zelda22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:14:02 -0500569_- This is an Alan Sherman song. He used a "Caribbean" accent, which is why you thought of Harry Belafonte. Debbie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7607 16 9_Re: Zelda0_14_BUBELE@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:01:53 EDT434_US-ASCII Debbie.....dunno about Alan Sherman but this is definitely sung by Harry Belafonte. Have this on an old Belafonte 78 rpm record AND have heard him sing it several places in person. Almost a "trademark" of his.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7624 16 9_Re: Zelda0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:25:41 EDT349_ISO-8859-1 Debbie is right---My Zelda was done by the late Allan Sherman as a take-off on "Matilda" by Harry Belafonte.

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7641 27 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Tue, 15 Aug 2000 20:30:08 EDT445_US-ASCII I just want to second Aviva's emotion. For me, the reunion was a great combination of nostalgia (Lonnie Golden's Trivia Bowl, a walk up shabbat hill, and all of the stories, even the "only for mature audience" ones), fun (rikudei am, 16 inch softball and midnight basketball) and the realization that we, as a whole, are a group of people with a certain world view and political orientation, even if people express it differently. [...] 7669 26 20_Re: Zelda, and Tavor17_Rena Cheskis-Gold16_renacg@ntplx.net31_Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:10:31 -0400369_us-ascii Dear All, Alan Sherman went to the University of Illinois, was in Sammies (Sigma Alpha Mu) fraternity, and was kicked out for sneaking into the upstairs window of a Jewish sorority. It was certainly HIS version that I learned at camp. Belafonte, as much as I like his voice, just didn't meet the criteria for being wierd enough to sing his songs at camp! [...] 7696 16 9_Re: Zelda0_14_BUBELE@aol.com29_Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:23:17 EDT416_US-ASCII So "Debbie was right", even you recognize that it was Belafonte's song that Alan Sherman "parodied", not Alan Sherman's song, originally. If that was what you were saying, then you are right!

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7713 14 9_Re: Zelda0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 16 Aug 2000 01:40:01 EDT265_US-ASCII "She took my money and run to Venezuela"

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7728 38 25_Apt for Rent in Jerusalem11_Pnina Laric18_plaric@wam.umd.edu37_Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:40:00 -0400 (EDT)357_US-ASCII Hi. My name is Pnina Laric and I attended and worked at Machaneh Moshava from 1989-1996. I know many of you will be staying in Jerusalem at some point during the year either with friends or with your families. If you are interested in renting an apartment in Jerusalem's German Colony on a weekly, monthly or annual basis, please email me at: [...] 7767 227 27_JOIN US FOR A GREAT WEEKEND0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com29_Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:30:12 EDT437_UTF-8



<< Register Now 17th ANNUAL LABOR ZIONIST MIDWEST SEMINAR β€ISRAELIS / AMERICANS CULTURE SHOCK!β€ (what we don’t know about each other)

FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 10 TO SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 12, 2000 at the Doubletree Guest Suites SOUTHFIELD, MICHIGAN Featuring

JAY CLIMO Professor of Anthropology at Michigan State University

MICHAEL LANDSBERG Executive Director of the World Labor Zionist Movement [...] 7995 31 27_Re: Giving up? Getting out?0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:13:54 EDT638_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/17/00 5:03:43 PM, LISTSERV@PANKOW.INTER.NET.IL writes:

<< Yediot Ahronot, in its second editorial, comments on the reports that a group of secular, left-wing intellectuals have discussed the idea of seeking to establish an autonomous "New Israel" abroad somewhere. The editors remark: "One doesn't have to be a secular leftist who hates religion and the religious to read the reports about the group seeking to establish a 'New Israel' to say, even if only to yourself: Hmm, they're on to something. OK, they've gone overboard this time, but there's something to what they're saying." >> [...] 8027 25 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 17 Aug 2000 21:55:47 EDT460_US-ASCII I'm sorry I didn't go to Tavor. I hope there is another one real soon, like next summer but try to avoid August 12-18 or so. It conflicts with my American sociological conventions. But after trips to Minn and Milwaukee, then Paris, Oxford, and London, then DC-- all for conferences in sociology or the Holocaust--I didn't have the strength to drive out to Tavor, but I look forward to seeing the pictures and "next year".--My best--Jackie Porter [...] 8053 24 12_Lilith blurb0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 17 Aug 2000 22:40:56 EDT660_US-ASCII The latest Lilith magazine features a "Jewish Girls' Guide" to organizations and I thought I'd share what they have to say about Habonim/Dror:

Habonim Dror, a Zionist organization,has camps in six states and has been a frontrunner in coordinating Judaism with healthy gender activities. The camps have held "Take Back the Night" marches and run regular co-ed programs on gender issues. Habonim has made Feminism one of its primary interest categories, along with Zionism, Judaism, socialism, and social justice. Since these topics are introduced as early as fourth grade, and feminist activities are as commonplace as swimming or arts and [...] 8078 20 7_Re: so?0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 18 Aug 2000 01:50:14 EDT452_US-ASCII

In a message dated 8/15/0 8:17:27 AM, you wrote:

>Don't miss the next one if at all possible!

I know Arlene's exhausted from doing such a fantastic job, but when IS the next one? Sign me up, please - Aliya

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8099 43 21_Pioneers from America6_Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:34:42 +0300484_us-ascii Shalom,

In 1980 a small group of volunteers undertook to mark the anniversary of Hehalutz in America by publishing a paperback book "Pioneers from America -- 75 Years of Hehalutz 1905-1980." They adopted the name Bogrei Hehalutz in Israel (Graduates of Hehalutz Organization.) They researched, wrote, edited, raised funds, printed and distributed the book. It can be found in public libraries, kibbutz libraries and archives, as well as in homes here and abroad. [...] 8143 21 15_Re The election0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com29_Sun, 20 Aug 2000 12:30:31 EDT358_US-ASCII As I have said in the past I am very happy with the selection of Lieberman for vice president. I am unhappy at the amount of reports on his Jewdaisim and the lack of coverage on his record. Nader whose record is largly ignored is highly touted for his work againt the auto industry. The fact that he is Lebonise is almost never mentioned. WHY? [...] 8165 107 19_Re: Re The election0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 00:38:47 EDT536_US-ASCII As frustrating as it is that the only thing most Americans know about Lieberman is that he's Jewish, it's inevitable. Any "first," anything that makes a public figure markedly different from the rest is going to get a lot of play -- what were the biggest stories on Ferraro? Even her choices in clothing got more newsprint than her political record! And how often does Barney Frank get mentioned in an article without being identified as Gay? I can only imagine the stories in the paper when Shirley Chisom took her seat. [...] 8273 31 9_Lieberman0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:13:24 EDT572_US-ASCII It bothers me much less that Lieberman is referred to as Jewish (or Jew, Hebrew...) so often than the omission of the fact that he is so reactionary on so many issues. As Rachel pointed out, the "first" anything is news. (If Chainey ever becomes president I am sure we will suffer through many stories about the "first" openly lesbian child of a president.) Lieberman is constantly referred to as being the "moral conscience" of the Senate, and as far as I can tell this is based almost entirely on his attacks on Hollywood and the music industry. No matter [...] 8305 30 13_Re: Lieberman11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:16:44 -0400356_us-ascii



Richardrdsmith@aol.com wrote:

> ... > Lieberman is constantly referred to as being the "moral conscience" of > the Senate, and as far as I can tell this is based almost entirely on his > attacks on Hollywood and the music industry. ...

My impression is that the basis is his denounciation of Clinton's behavior. [...] 8336 16 12_mosh reunion20_Zachary J Braiterman24_zbraiter@mailbox.syr.edu37_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 11:44:02 -0400 (EDT)298_US-ASCII



Does anyone have directions to New Mosh? Thanks. --Zak B.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8353 36 29_Re: Just in time for Reunion!7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 22:43:53 +0300281_us-ascii To Mosh Reunioners and anyone else,

So last year I asked all of you to help me find the words to "Mi Yitein Roshi Mayim" for which I thanked you all. I even found the music at the HU National Library and my choir almost performed it (they found it too dirgy). [...] 8390 27 16_Re: mosh reunion8_Pristoop22_cpristoo@mail.bcpl.net31_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:37:37 -0400290_us-ascii Route 95 north or sourth depending on where you're coming from . Near Belair, Md., find rt 24 toward Forest Hill. To Grier Nursery Rd, right on Cherry Hill Rd. about 1 mile or less to entrance sign on the right (you will definitely recognize the Habonim semel. Allan Pristoop [...] 8418 17 16_Re: mosh reunion0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:41:40 EDT277_US-ASCII If you are coming from the north it is rather a waste of time to stay on 95 until 24; instead you should get off at 22 or 543. You can take 543 all the way to Cherry Hill rd. and make a left onto Cherry Hill. Mosh will be on your left in about a mile and a half. [...] 8436 51 16_Re: mosh reunion14_Orit Chicherio16_oritil@yahoo.com37_Mon, 21 Aug 2000 18:27:34 -0700 (PDT)514_us-ascii Coming to you direct from the Habonim Dror Camp Moshava Web site:

Take route 95 NORTH from Baltimore

Take exit 77B- Rte 24 NORTH toward Bel Air

NOTE: Stay on Rte 24 NORTH(toward Philidelphia) when 24 merges with Rte 1. Follow 24 NORTH(Forest Hill/Rocks) when 24 and 1 split. Pass a C-Mart store, a Klein's grocery and a cemetary. Turn Right on Grier Nursary Road. After 4 or 5 miles turn ight on Cherry Hill Road(the first complete intersection). Camp is 3/4 miles on the right. [...] 8488 17 16_Re: mosh reunion16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com29_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 02:31:49 GMT444_- Does anyone know if there's a car wash near the new Mosh?

(work and work) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8506 36 13_Re: Lieberman0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 00:44:58 -0400584_us-ascii Richard-

As a child of the 60's and wife of a musician, I was never threatened by Tipper's attention to the music industry nor am I by Lieberman's, because altho I may agree that they are not the sole causes of violence and current incivility, I can tell you that as a very involved and concerned parent there is very little I can do while raising my sons to fight the deadening of their sensitivity to violence, misogyny, in your face crudeness and rudeness, inappropriate sexual behavior that I think is hugely the fault of the entertainment industry's lack of [...] 8543 52 14_Fwd: Lieberman0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 03:29:45 EDT17_US-ASCII

8596 26 16_RE: mosh reunion14_Elliot Choueka24_elliot.choueka@bbc.co.uk31_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:15:03 +0100497_- Is this Mark Hershkoqitz who was at World Habo in Tel Aviv in 1993/94?

> -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Hershkowitz [SMTP:marchersh@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 3:32 AM > To: habonet@shamash.org > Subject: Re: mosh reunion > > Does anyone know if there's a car wash near the new Mosh? > > (work and work) > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > [...] 8623 19 15_nytimes article0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 09:05:12 EDT430_US-ASCII There's an interesting article in today's NYTimes at http://www.nytimes.com/li brary/world/mideast/082200israel-barak.html

"Barak Seeks to Limit Use of Religious Privileges in Israel "

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8643 22 47_RE: Jackie Porter's smicha (was: Tavor reunion)12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:09:02 -0400391_iso-8859-1 Congratulations Jackie! That sounds very exciting! Chazak Ve'Ematz (if you'll pardon the "shmutzism").

--brian

> P.S. On July 10th, i became a rabbi, by the way, got my > smichah from an independent Vaad in NYC...I also have a > synogogue (Conservative but Independent) in Chelsea, > Mass of 175 families. ...I still can not believe it either > --Jackie Porter [...] 8666 15 19_Re: nytimes article0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:22:28 EDT265_US-ASCII WHAT AN ARTICLE - NOW WERE TALKING! BETH

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8682 19 19_Re: nytimes article0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:22:31 EDT403_US-ASCII Wow. is it interesting! Be sure to see it if you haven't yet done so. If there were a way we in usa could help him with this one, it might lessen the numbers of non-ultra-Orthodox (notice I did NOT say non-religious) Israelis who have voiced interest in re-locating their own communities to Australia, the US, or Western Europe. I leave it to the chachamim to tell us how to help him now. [...] 8702 28 40_Re: nytimes article "Now we are talking"13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 20:01:25 -0700511_US-ASCII Most of us here fear that this is just what it is -- "talking" Halavai it could be. Michael

---------- >From: Shulansid@aol.com >To: habonet@shamash.org >Subject: Re: nytimes article >Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:22:28 EDT >

> WHAT AN ARTICLE - NOW WERE TALKING! > BETH > > >

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8731 19 16_Re: mosh reunion0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Tue, 22 Aug 2000 14:10:34 EDT386_US-ASCII Marc, your question can only mean one thing: you are going to perform your old classic WITH PROPS FROM THE REAL THING!!!!

I'm ready to rock.

Rachel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8751 16 16_RE: mosh reunion16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com29_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 03:13:12 GMT403_-

I think so---who wants to know? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8768 17 19_Re: nytimes article16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com29_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 03:16:00 GMT509_-

When I tried to access the NY Times article, I received a note saying it was no longer available. Did anyone save it on their hard drive? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8786 17 16_Re: mosh reunion16_Marc Hershkowitz21_marchersh@hotmail.com29_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 03:18:37 GMT539_- Is it illogical to assume that a man who drives a 15 year old car might want to clean it on a Sunday afternoon. I don't know what any of you are talking about. (Work and Work) ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 8804 162 79_NYTimes.com Article: Barak Seeks to Limit Use of Religious Privileges in Israel0_18_Liberhawke@aol.com37_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:11:43 -0400 (EDT)586_- This article from NYTimes.com has been sent to you by Sue Liberman Liberhawke@aol.com.

Habonim Chevre

I hope this comes through as per some peoples' request...sue

Sue Liberman Liberhawke@aol.com

/-------------------- advertisement -----------------------\



Celebrate Summer with a NYTimes.com Photo Screensaver NYTimes.com's latest screensaver captures the unforgettable moments from Coney Island amusement park. Enjoy these images every day on your computer, absolutely free. http://www.nytimes.com/partners/screensaver/index.html?eta2 [...] 8967 19 38_TO ALL MOSH CHEVRE....B'HATZLACHA!!!!!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:26:02 EDT377_US-ASCII Dear Everyone- Due to circumstances "beyond my control", I won't be able to be there on Sunday. I was planning to make a long weekend of it, but it just didn't work out this time. So I just want to wish EVERYONE "hatzlacha"- I know that people have been working and planning to make this a very special day.....I will be thinking of you guys....B'yedidut...susie [...] 8987 28 36_which workshops still need captains?11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:55:52 -0400575_us-ascii Dear Chevre- Which Workshops and MBs still need captains to get current addresses for their kvutzot? I thought I would take the list to the Mosh Reunion. I have the task of whipping up enthuaism for the Foundation and thought I might as well recruit volunteers for that Foundation project while I am at it. Aleh uv'neh- Judy Gelman PS WHen you get to Mosh, you actually may NOT recognize the semel--it was redesigned when Habonim married Dror and hyphenated her name. It looks nothing like the tent with a brick chimney and roof that we alumni from the 1940's, [...] 9016 25 42_Re: TO ALL MOSH CHEVRE....B'HATZLACHA!!!!!8_Pristoop22_cpristoo@mail.bcpl.net31_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:10:19 -0400516_us-ascii

At 12:26 AM 8/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Everyone- >Due to circumstances "beyond my control", I won't be able to be there on >Sunday. I was planning to make a long weekend of it, but it just didn't work >out this time. So I just want to wish EVERYONE "hatzlacha"- I know that >people have been working and planning to make this a very special day.....I >will be thinking of you guys....B'yedidut...susie > Will miss you, Susie. Looking forward to it with much anticipation. Allan Pristoop > [...] 9042 17 42_Re: TO ALL MOSH CHEVRE....B'HATZLACHA!!!!!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:23:51 EDT336_US-ASCII (Thanks Alan)--

If anyone is planning to take some pictures- PLEASE let me know--I want copies!!!! susie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9060 187 29_birthright israel opportunity12_Joel Goldman16_joel@isdn.net.il31_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 09:15:11 +0200379_windows-1255 Chevreh Shalom,

This is Joel Goldman in Kfar Saba. Many of you may remember me as Pitzie, the younger brother of Rafi and Dodi Goldman from Tavor of the early 70's.

I am writing today because of an amazing opportunity that is now being offered to literally thousands of young Jewish adults who have not yet had the opportunity to discover Israel. [...] 9248 15 39_Is/was there a Galil reunion this year?12_Stein, Steve21_Steve.Stein@isacs.com31_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 06:37:33 -0400338_- Is/was there a Galil reunion this year? New daughter Sara is doing fine. Yesterday was her 4 week birthday. She is cute.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9264 42 30_Environmental issues in Israel7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:34:19 +0300374_us-ascii Hi Hevre,

I'd like to ask for some information, and maybe help.

My son Ami just started working for a new organization in Israel called The Green Course, which is trying to promote awareness of environmental issues in Israel: water and air pollution, damage to green areas (trans-Israel highway), promotion of mass transportation solutions, etc. [...] 9307 49 27_Re: Giving up? Getting out?12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:21:11 -0500 (CDT)638_us-ascii The idea of trying to establish a Jewish state outside of Israel is a fantastic idea. In fact, we should have a bunch of separate Jewish settlements all around the world--one for each religion and/or political stripe.

However, there is no need to re-invent the wheel in this regard. People interested in this movement should delve into the historical archives and dig up the history and programs of the "Territorialist" movement. (Nachum Syrkin, one the of early giants of the Labor Zionist movement, was once a Territorialist.) Let's start by sending all these neo-Territorialists to Birobidjan. They already have a [...] 9357 39 18_Re: Maybe on Nader12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 15:24:07 -0500 (CDT)612_us-ascii Lieberman a fascist? How do you figure? he has consistently supported abortion rights. Gee, if he's a fascist, what is Buchanan? Surely there is a difference between the two.

Dov





>I find i interesting that this discussion has, so far, been totally male. Of course, unless you are very progressive and "get" womens rights as human rights, y'all might not have any idea of what is at stake here. > >I'm old enough to remember when pregnancy was not voluntary. Birth control was difficult and abortion was not available. > >I believe a woman's right to choose what to do [...] 9397 18 43_Re: Is/was there a Galil reunion this year?0_14_Ohanka@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:41:18 EDT362_US-ASCII No reunion this year steve. Our new son Cory is having his one-month birthday today. He is (of course) also very cute.

Hank Albert

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9416 60 27_Re: Giving up? Getting out?0_16_YonatonS@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:50:37 EDT464_ISO-8859-1 Dov: Try California first. We've got better weather and there are already a few Jews here.

Yoni

In a message dated Thu, 24 Aug 2000 4:22:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DLiberman@UH.EDU (Dov Liberman) writes:

<< The idea of trying to establish a Jewish state outside of Israel is a fantastic idea. In fact, we should have a bunch of separate Jewish settlements all around the world--one for each religion and/or political stripe. [...] 9477 21 22_Chainey, not Lieberman0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:16:43 EDT485_US-ASCII "the possibility of the Shrub and the Fascist getting elected scares me"

I believe the fascist referred to in this quote is Chainey and not Lieberman.



I don't think anyone thinks Lieberman's a fascist, I however believe he is a demagogue.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9499 32 18_Re: Maybe on Nader0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:45:35 EDT513_ISO-8859-1 Dov, you said:



>I believe a woman's right to choose what to do with her own body should be HER decision, not that of the state. For this reason, I am NOT gambling with my vote. Although I have a lot of problems with the two-party system and Gore and Lieberman, the possibility of the Shrub and the Fascist getting elected scares me more in terms of my civil rights/human rights. Yeah, it is a matter of "least worst" again, but too much is at stake, IMO, to waste my vote on Nader. [...] 9532 30 27_Re: Giving up? Getting out?0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:13:27 EDT523_US-ASCII There are al;ways some nuts in the croud. A state for Jews anyplace other than israel has been vetoed many times. However our secular Jews who propose this idea are probably living in galut anyway and do not apreciate the atatcment the land has. I am an American Jew and have lived in Israel and I can state unequevicaly that I have never felt that this land is mine as much as when I spent a Shabot at an empty beach south of Asdod. I had the feeling that this was mine that I never felt in America. We have [...] 9563 19 19_Mosh Reunion update0_15_Moshava@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:10:42 EDT404_US-ASCII I returned from a wonderful vacation with my family to over 50 more registration forms to the Mosh reunion. We had 250 attendees before I left. I haven't opened these envelopes yet but I am excited at the prospect of growing numbers. We have alumni coming from near and far. People we didn't even know the where abouts to. People who have become Mosh legends. It'll be a very exciting day! [...] 9583 21 27_Re: Giving up? Getting out?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:22:28 EDT475_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/24/00 6:14:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BERNSARA@aol.com writes:

> We have to recognize that America is a Christian country. I don't accept this when Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell say it and I don't accept it from anyone else either. This is one of the only countries without a state religion which is one of the things that makes this a great place to live. I would say if you don't like it leave but apparently you already have. [...] 9605 14 23_Re: Mosh Reunion update0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:04:35 EDT302_US-ASCII I hope we will get a full account of the day!!!! Almost Shabbat Shalom- susie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 9620 33 18_Christian country?20_Zachary J Braiterman24_zbraiter@mailbox.syr.edu37_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:31:03 -0400 (EDT)518_US-ASCII



Can we distinguish between Country and Culture? That is, the U.S. remains in many respect a Christian (dominated ) culture (e.g. institutional memory, calender structure, consumer patterns, mental habits, etc.) But it's not a Christian country per se (where citizenship and othter rights and responsibilites are determined by creed). Perhaps this might work as a model in Israel, where the State and its instutions becomes less and less "Jewish," but the culture remains Jewish. --Zak B. [...] 9654 102 54_The Contrariness of Modern Hebrew Or The Cat Came Back12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 17:23:48 +0200596_iso-8859-1

Haverot/im I went to the theatre recently to see the Kameri Theatre's truly remarkable, deeply moving production of Va-Yomer, Va-Yelekh. The text was composed of 100% pure spirits of Hebraic sources, restricted to the Tanakh, more exclusively to Humash (the Pentateuch), which is traditionally assumed to be God's own words which written down by Moses. Call it the contrariness of the Hebrew language that it should eschew modern western languages to be written from right to left and that it should opt to re-invent its ancient tongue in order to re-assess old "truths." [...] 9757 107 12_Ride to Mosh4_Ezra26_foundation@habonimdror.org31_Wed, 23 Aug 2000 18:42:37 -0400543_iso-8859-1

Dear Habonetters,

This is Ezra Weinberg. I just finished my second consecutive summer as Rosh Galil. Halleyluya! And now I'm rushing back to New York City to get back to being administrator of the Habonim Dror Foundation. The Habo-life is never ending - just the way I like it.

My first tafkid of the new season is to get over to the Moshava reunion this Sunday so I can represent the Foundation. I'm going to be in Philadelphia this weekend, but I don't have a car to get myself to Mosh. My question is: [...] 9865 28 38_Best directions to Mosh from Northeast0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:14:35 EDT337_US-ASCII The following is the best (fastest and more scenic) direction to get to Mosh from the Northeast (Philly, New York ...)

U.S. 95 S to MD. 22 (west or just away from Aberdeen)

MD. 22 to MD. 136 (N) take a right onto 136 (about 5 miles on 22)

MD. 136 to MD. 440 (W) take a left onto 440 (4-5 miles on 136) [...] 9894 46 23_RE: HABONET digest 163311_Katz, Alisa22_ABKatz@bos.co.la.ca.us31_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:34:45 -0700595_iso-8859-1 Hey everybody: Don't you guys think the competition between the two tribes on "Survivor" was a lot like Kachol-Lavan Day? NOT the backbiting, vote-somebody-off-the-island part, but the competition that determined which tribe had to vote somebody off. eg on the third episode (which I have to admit is the only one I watched) they had to do a relay race featuring swimming, running, interpreting a map, climbing a tree etc. Then they had to create an SOS sign that would be visible from the air, and the most creative, easily understood one won. Isn't this just the sort of stuff [...] 9941 133 25_FW: "Liebermania shabbat"11_Katz, Alisa22_ABKatz@bos.co.la.ca.us31_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 09:47:03 -0700804_iso-8859-1 this is something...

-----Original Message----- From: Solomon, Adinah Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 5:11 PM To: 'zev'; Bellman, Joel; Bricker, Samantha; Katz, Alisa; Libitsky, Robyn; Nissman, Susan; Shultz, Elan Subject: FW: "Liebermania shabbat"







-----Original Message----- From: BDS95@aol.com [mailto:BDS95@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 6:24 PM To: Honestnate@aol.com; Byrna@aol.com; Nhd1932@aol.com; Berwexdiam@aol.com; howzend@netvigator.com; Tofendie@aol.com; jerfre2@yahoo.com; annaok@msn.com; harryk@digital.net; sumchic@hitter.net; bernselkess@yahoo.com; Hildafk@aol.com; Morhel@aol.com; KRIEGER268@aol.com; SonjaU@aol.com; H1325@aol.com; AHSavage@gate.net; gloriachirp@hotmail.com; Mars20@aol.com Subject: "Liebermania shabbat" [...] 10075 31 40_Better directions to Mosh from Baltimore0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:51:53 EDT450_US-ASCII These are more scenic directions to Mosh from Baltimore. It is no faster than 95 but it is also no slower and a whole lot more entertaining.

U.S. 695 (Beltway) to 147 (Hartford Rd.) North

About 4 miles on Hartford Rd. to Long Green Pike (make a left)

About 4 miles on Long Green Pike to Fork Rd (which turns into Baldwin Mill) make a left - I believe the Fork Rd./Baldwin Mill is the second stop sign you'll get to [...] 10107 53 26_on reading Said and Adorno13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 14:10:01 -0400641_iso-8859-1 I've just finished reading Ari Shavit's very good and intelligent interview with Edward Said at Columbia University in New York, which was published in the Weekend [English] Magazine of Haaretz on last Friday, August 18.

I hadn't seen it last Friday. I was alerted to its existence by Meron Benvenisti's attempt at a reply, in today's [8/25/00] edition of Haaretz [English-internet]. Now here is some real tough food for thought for thinking Jews. I'll bet anything that right now Amos Oz is sitting in Arad, carefully writing down some thoughts for a future possible response to Said's earth-shattering interview. By [...] 10161 34 3_m2k0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:46:47 -0400465_us-ascii Soon we will reune (is there such a word?) and it looks like we're going to have a big turnout and a tremendous time! Shlomo Cohen and Abba Caspi leading makhela, Grace Feinglass in the mitbach for lunch, Joan Levitz and I teaching shira, and Boombah on Mifkad Boker - need I say more?? There will also be legendary kumsitzers and dancers leading kumsitz and rikud (I'm not naming names because we haven't actually asked them, I'm just assuming.....) [...] 10196 19 13_Re: Lieberman0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:52:59 EDT477_US-ASCII I can understand where Richard is coming from, but I think we owe Lieberman some time before we leap to the conclusion that his convictions are populist. He may be that and he may also be a thoughtful guy who we disagree with on some issues.

Sam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10216 21 23_Re: HABONET digest 16350_18_Chichay264@aol.com29_Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:48:22 EDT451_US-ASCII Need ride to Mosh reunion from Silver Spring. If you have room for one, please leave message with my parents whose house I will arrive at Saturday night. 301 593 2104

Thank you.

Laurie Joseph Wasserman Mosh 64-65

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10238 271 14_Fwd: Lieberman15_MENDY MENDELSON24_frenchhorn90@hotmail.com29_Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:58:22 GMT1205_-





----Original Message Follows---- From: EMa308@aol.com To: BarkansInc@aol.com, Cbbarkan@aol.com, tes4@msn.com, Sab1977@aol.com, rachelbarkan@hotmail.com, LEE334813@aol.com, aj-brown@csr.utexas.edu, jrbrown2@uiuc.edu, mel_mitchell_2000@yahoo.com, WAbrahams1@aol.com, tabe1978@hotmail.com, Tonybarkan@aol.com, In2Scouting@aol.com, victer1@earthlink.net, Barkan171@aol.com, JBGIRL20@aol.com, BBerker@aol.com, HadPhoenix@aol.com, eblum8@compuserve.com, Rbbregal@cs.com, SICohn@aol.com, ZonaLynne@aol.com, judipgg@yahoo.com, erklein@pol.net, Marianlang@aol.com, elanal@dfd-architecture.com, Jhl1744@aol.com, Laponcher@aol.com, moodles@hotmail.com, crudick@wans.net, RRudick1@aol.com, jaasman@worldnet.att.net, LRS049@aol.com, bteller@usa.net, EMa308@aol.com, LMMMI@aol.com, matters@primenet.com, tracibrown@looksmart.com, jbycer@home.com, rcedelman@earthlink.com, slj0002@attglobal.net, Lmschiff@aol.com, seeliston@worldnet.att.net, MSRHESA@aol.com, ben@uic.edu, MAGNETLDY@aol.com, Jodgoldman@aol.com, frenchhorn90@hotmail.com, Vrm36@aol.com, mogo@cfl.rr.com, princea@ctt.com, roznrose@mindspring.com, Andreaschaffer@aol.com Subject: Lieberman Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:38:45 EDT [...] 10510 19 43_There are pennacles and there are pennacles0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:37:01 EDT506_US-ASCII THE AISH RABBI said: He's (Lieberman) proven that you can reach the pinnacle of secular society without compromising your Jewishness one bit.

It should be remembered that the vice-presidency has been described by one who held that office as "not worth a glass of warm piss."

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10530 25 47_Re: There are pennacles and there are pennacles0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:25:38 EDT516_US-ASCII In a message dated 8/26/00 1:37:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Richardrdsmith@aol.com writes:

<< It should be remembered that the vice-presidency has been described by one who held that office as "not worth a glass of warm piss." >>

I would probably say that about a lot of government positions...but the bottom line is that - like Kennedy- this is ground-breaking action and puts "Jewishness" in a very public eye. Some of those "vice=pres's" even went on to bigger and better things.. :) [...] 10556 30 21_A New Zion in America15_Nechemia Meyers32_rrmeyers@wisemail.weizmann.ac.il31_Sun, 27 Aug 2000 09:18:53 +0300617_US-ASCII Shalom Chevre, The well publicized group of secular Israelis who are talking about creating a new Zion in America are not important in themselves or are they likely to turn their words into deeds. But they are a symptom of the feeling of many secular Israelis, and particularly members of the secular elite, that Israel is developing in ways that they find unacceptable. Very late in the day Barak finally paid attention to their dissatisfaction and called for a constitution and other guarantees of a secular, democratic Israel. A survey in Friday's "Yediot Aharonot" showed that 74% of Israelis favor [...] 10587 16 7_Re: m2k0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 27 Aug 2000 02:47:41 EDT403_US-ASCII Thanks to Shlomo requesting Korobushka at the recent New York kumsitz/reunion, Tamar (Yablonski) recently revived it at h er dance sessions - what a great jewel of a dance! Aliya

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10604 21 11_Hasia Diner0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:41:46 EDT441_US-ASCII Hasia Diner, professor of American Jewish history at NYU, has written the recently published "Lower East Side Memories: A Jewish Place in America" published by Princeton University Press. Those of us at the Tavor reunion had the pleasure of hearing Hasia speak (with one day's notice) on Jews in the upcoming election. Although the topic had been selected much earlier, the talk came one week after the Lieberman announcement. [...] 10626 18 55_Re: (The Other) Lieberman (Liberman) TO ALL L.A. CHEVRE0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 27 Aug 2000 14:52:14 EDT468_US-ASCII Dear Chevre- Tomorrow evening, Monday August 28, my son Micha's band- "Milei HaNefesh" is going to perform at Genghis Cohen's on Fairfax at around 8:00-- ALL are invited (they are pretty good- if I do say so myself!)..... So y'all come!!!! sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10645 26 55_Re: (The Other) Lieberman (Liberman) TO ALL L.A. CHEVRE15_Nechemia Meyers32_rrmeyers@wisemail.weizmann.ac.il31_Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:03:51 +0300363_US-ASCII Dear Sue, I hope the performance goes well. Nechemia

>>> LiberHawke@aol.com 08/27/00 21:54 PM >>> Dear Chevre- Tomorrow evening, Monday August 28, my son Micha's band- "Milei HaNefesh" is going to perform at Genghis Cohen's on Fairfax at around 8:00-- ALL are invited (they are pretty good- if I do say so myself!)..... So y'all come!!!! sue [...] 10672 96 29_Fwd: FW: for george bush fans0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 27 Aug 2000 16:48:26 EDT17_US-ASCII

10769 16 15_Re: Hasia Diner0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:03:34 EDT390_US-ASCII Can someone forward me Hasia'a mailing address/phone number? I am planning a Leadership Training weekend for NA'AMAT and would love to speak to her. Thank you, Ellen

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 10786 30 26_Re: Chainey, not Lieberman12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 08:34:52 -0500 (CDT)389_us-ascii Regarding message below:

OK, I'll bite. I don't get it. Why is Lieberman a demagogue?

Dov



>"the possibility of the Shrub and the Fascist getting >elected scares me" > >I believe the fascist referred to in this quote is Chainey and not Lieberman. > > >I don't think anyone thinks Lieberman's a fascist, I however believe he is a >demagogue. > > > [...] 10817 317 28_Mosh Reunion & Labor Zionism16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 12:47:59 -0400584_us-ascii I got home at 2:00 A.M. this morning from the Mosh reunion, and have been ruminating about it since. It says something, I suspect, that some of us are at the age where we attend reunions to commemorate 30 and more years after the event. We are facing our mortality. The current Moshava isn't the camp I knew. There were, however, some constants which never seem to change: heat, humidity, overcast skies and rain, a non working pool, mosquitoes and gnats and peanut butter & jelly sandwiches. One of A.E. Housman's poems from Shropshire Lad kept running through my mind [...] 11135 330 32_Re: Mosh Reunion & Labor Zionism12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:26:20 -0500 (CDT)522_us-ascii I appreciated Elihu's message regarding the need for a renewed Labor Zionism. But it wasn't clear to me how Labor Zionism differed from a general, democratic, secularism. Indeed, in his message Elihu mentioned Labor and Likud together when (rightly) worrying about the passing of a democratic, non-religious approach to Israeli politics. If the issue is peace, well, there are religious parties that are pro-Oslo. Meimad, a modern Orthodox party, is pro-peace and is part of Barak's One Israel united party. [...] 11466 22 28_Re: FW: for george bush fans0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:27:24 EDT407_US-ASCII <> is right! Although ... while I certainly have nothing good to say about George II, does anyone know if these numbers are correct and up-to-date? I always get nervous when I see numbers tossed around.

BTW, if you do <<...forward this to every person of voting age,>> do them a favor and delete those extra 8" inches between <> and <> [...] 11489 51 26_Is there a hope for peace?12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:31:43 -0500 (CDT)568_us-ascii FYI

ARABS IN THEIR OWN WORDS

"I shall not accept any reduced sovereignty over Jerusalem, even if we have to wait another 50 or 100 years to liberate it, and raise the Palestinian flag. I am a religious man, and I shall never permit it to be said that I sold the Haram [the Temple Mount]. Even if the State of Palestine were to be established on 100% of the land of Palestine, including Jerusalem, we shall never admit that the Temple lies under the Haram." >From a letter written by PLO leader Yassir Arafat to President Clinton during the [...] 11541 17 47_RE: Jackie Porter's smicha (was: Tavor reunion)0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:11:35 EDT452_US-ASCII Thank you Brian Cooper for your good wishes and for all the other good wishes from other Habonim chevreh. If anyone needs a wedding or funeral done, just call me at (617) 965-8388 or fax 964-3971 or email. Shalom, Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11559 36 16_Camp Kinderwelt?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:51:18 EDT600_US-ASCII I need help from chevreh out there. In two reviews of Samuel G. Freedman's latest book "Jew vs. Jew: The Struggle for the Soul of American Jewry", Simon and Shuster, $26, hardcover, one by Jonathan Sarna in the Boston Globe and again in the FORWARD, both reviewers mention a camp, Camp Kinderwelt and I quote from Sarna's review: "a socialist camp sponsored by the Labor Zionist movement in the Catskills, near Monroe, NY. Like most summer camps of its kind, Kinderwelt went into a slow decline in the 1950s. Its anti-capitalist ideology, its affinity for Yiddish, and its penchant for [...] 11596 60 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com31_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:03:59 -0400704_iso-8859-1 Camp Kindervelt was indeed a Labor Zionist camp. It was sponsored by the "Farband", the Jewish National Workers Alliance, which was affiliated with the Poale Zion, later Labor Zionist Organization of America, LZOA. Many current members of LZA have been there, among them Ruby Vogelfanger, Gloria Kaufman and others. It was an adjunct to "Unser Camp", a summer hotel facility for members of the Labor Zionist movement and friends. For more solid, personal info, contact the names I have mentioned. Ben Cohen -----Original Message----- From: JackNusan@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 7:51 PM Subject: Camp Kinderwelt? [...] 11657 20 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:17:59 EDT481_US-ASCII I heard of the camp; another camper at my MB (1967), Helene Zynstein, I think, went there. It was not Labor Zionist per se; it was a Workmen's Circle camp that focused on yiddish yiddishkeit.

I'm sure someone else out there knows more!

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11678 26 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:21:28 EDT580_US-ASCII PS I used to live near Monroe in Harriman, NY in the mid 1970s, and remember well when Kiryas Yoel was started. As part of my job, I consulted with DSS (welfare dept) which, at the time, had funding to talk to women about health issues and birth control.

We heard a lot of stories from some Satmar women about how their husbands would sing "eishes hayil" on shabbas and would beat them up on other days....would violate their niddah....and some were begging and crying to get birth control pills without their husbands' knowledge. As one young woman told me, [...] 11705 20 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:12:21 EDT332_US-ASCII I think, Jackie, that you're right - it was a Bundist camp. Kinder-Ring (as opposed to Kinderwelt) still exists - I was there, last week, in Hopewell Junction , NY - it is sponsored by the Workman's Circle/Arbeiter Ring and has both a kids' camp (550 kids) and an Adult Camp like the Farband used to have in Michigan. [...] 11726 22 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_15_NYMamma@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:30:36 EDT585_US-ASCII Hi, Kindervelt was not the Workmens Circle Camp. That was Kinder Ring, a totally yiddishkite camp in Hopewell Junction, New York. Across the Sylvan Lake, the lake on which Kinder Ring occupied was a camp called Kinderland. This was also a Yiddishkite camp, but it's press was that it was the "Commie" camp. It still exists in another location, almost impossible to get your kid in if he wasn't there before. There is still Yidddishkite, but less and they teach alot of the same values as Habonim Camp--social justice, hagshama atzmit, cooperation, mutual respect. Marian [...] 11749 14 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_13_VFINK@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 01:35:29 EDT262_US-ASCII I believe that it was a Farband camp.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11764 38 14_Camp Kindewelt11_Sam Bergman22_bergman@mindspring.com31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 07:19:57 -0400479_us-ascii It was really strange for me to read Jackie's question about Kinderwelt (was it really a Labor Zionist Camp? I never heard of it...) -- especially since I spent 10 summers of my life (ages 6-15) there. I suppose it's like kids who might ask if there were really typewriters that didn't have screens or there were really houses without plumbing--in the sense we forget that the past is not visible to those who didn't experience it unless we explicitly retell it... [...] 11803 24 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 08:50:28 -0500570_- I read of review of the book in the Tribune on Sunday. We just got a copy, and I plan to read it when Donald gets done with it. The Tribune review did not describe Kinderwelt as a Labor Zionist camp, but as a secular, Yiddish speaking camp. I don't recall it saying whether the camp was Bundist or Workman's Circle. Debbie ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. [...] 11828 33 15_CAMP KINDERVELT15_MENDY MENDELSON24_frenchhorn90@hotmail.com29_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:28:39 GMT551_- Benny Cohen is dead right!! Kindervelt was the youth camp of the Labor Zionist movement and existed next to the Farband's Unser Camp. They were in Highland Mills NY. All this was in pre Habonim days. The director of Kindervelt was Meyerovitz who after camp season was the Farband Shule teacher in the basement of the Farband houses on Adee Ave. in the Bronx NY. This was probably the biggest center of Labor Zionism in the USA at the time. All of this is from personal knowledge. I WAS THERE !!!! Benny best regards to you and Harriet from all [...] 11862 18 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:32:27 EDT374_ISO-8859-1 Thanks to Mendy, Sam and Ben for adding to my knowledge of American Labor Zionist camping history.

Sam, your story was priceless.

Ken

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 11881 30 5_Hello11_Roslyn Lang26_langr@gunet.georgetown.edu31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:41:20 -0400529_US-ASCII Dear folks, I have just joined this net and am wondering if people I knew from the Baltimore-Washington area are on it. I had the pleasure of seeing some of you Sunday at the Mosh Reunion, but thought this would be a good way to say hi to the rest of you as well. I was in Habonim from around 1956 to the mid-sixties, and you knew me as Rozzy Garfeld. (I was also on the Machon L'Madrichei Chutz L'Aretz in 1960-61 if there are any Machonicks online.) I've included my email address below if you want to contact me [...] 11912 23 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT16_beverly schwartz19_beverly@hevanet.com31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 09:34:55 -0700430_ISO-8859-1 My father went to Kindervelt and his parents went to Unser Camp. I used to hear stories about it when I would tell them my stories of Habonim camp.

Thanks to Ben Cohen for delineating so precisely the origins and affiliations of Kindervelt. I had forgotten about the Farband and Poale Zion and Unser Camp. Seeing those words again brought tears to my eyes; my grandparents and my father have all passed on. [...] 11936 57 37_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT-Personal Memories13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:21:47 -0700614_utf-8 Memories. Memories. Not so positive. Kindervelt : Summer 1960. I was Camp Doctor, fresh from internship at Kings County in Brooklyn. I thought I could "Habonimize" the place. At the time I was one of the Merakzim of the Brooklyn Ken. I thought I'll work at a Farband Labor Zionist Order Camp. and recruit for Habonim. To put it mildly--the reception was luke-warm. Sure--Kindervelt was a Farband camp and apparently Farband families sent their kids there. However, its ethos was totally anti-Habonim. The people were in Farband for their good insurance deals. Labor Zionism was lip service only. It was [...] 11994 19 16_Re: Mosh Reunion7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:19:13 +0300459_us-ascii Now that we have Elihu's think piece, could we get a more shmoozy what happened, what did you sing, what old stories were told, who was there type of report for those who really do want to feel some 30-year-old nostalgia?

Trudy

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12014 18 37_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT-Personal Memories0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:02:37 EDT454_US-ASCII I think it was a given that Farbandniks who sent their kids to Kindervelt did so in order to save them from being infected with wanting to become "halutzim" .. At least that's what we Canadians thought at the time...

Shula

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12033 40 16_Re: Mosh Reunion11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:11:57 -0400506_us-ascii Greener wrote:

> Now that we have Elihu's think piece, could we get a more shmoozy what > happened, what did you sing, what old stories were told, who was there > type of report for those who really do want to feel some 30-year-old > nostalgia? > > Trudy

Didn't do a lot of singing myself, so I can't speak to that... A wonderful kalidescope of a day - was hard to focus on one thing and many people went home with whiplash from swivelling heads trying to recognize passers by. [...] 12074 56 16_Re: Mosh Reunion11_Roslyn Lang26_langr@gunet.georgetown.edu31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:22:34 -0400352_US-ASCII Trudy, for someone who has seen few Moshnicks since the 1960's the Mosh Reunion was a hoot! Of course it wasn't the same camp, but then again, the camp itself, as far as the facilities, etc. was never much to begin with. This new Moshava did have a bumpy dirt road, however, so those of us who remembered the old Mosh felt right at home. [...] 12131 27 28_Re: FW: for george bush fans11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 16:29:08 -0400414_us-ascii



Rachelbern@aol.com wrote:

> <> is right! Although ... while I certainly have nothing good to say > about George II, does anyone know if these numbers are correct and > up-to-date? I always get nervous when I see numbers tossed around.

William Raspberry seemed to cast doubt on these numbers, at least regarding education, in a column in Monday's Washington Post. [...] 12159 23 16_Re: Mosh Reunion11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:37:07 -0400463_us-ascii



Noam Stopak wrote:

> We had a great number of former roshei machaneh in attendance (including a couple of my former chanichim) - those I can recall included Chaim Stopak, Sam Bergman, Steve Schrier, Benji Glaser, Marc Glickman, Marty Gruder, Shane Hoffman, Kevin Bernstein, Mike Hirschhorn, Peter Ephross, and Rachel Chernick as well as last year's rosh who's name I didn't catch (sorry!). There were probably others as well. [...] 12183 39 17_Fwd: Mosh reunion8_Pristoop22_cpristoo@mail.bcpl.net31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:55:04 -0400690_us-ascii >Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 21:53:12 -0400 >To: Habonet@shamash >From: Pristoop >Subject: Fwd: Mosh reunion > >Enclosed is my own brief take that I have already sent to my sons in NYC and Jerusalem. > >>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 19:30:17 -0400 >>To: EJPristo@artsci.wustl.edu, Rafi_Pristoop@mail.com >>From: Pristoop >>Subject: Mosh reunion >> >>Dear R&E, >> Mosh reunion was a wonderful event. 230 people arrived. Biggest event of day was people constantly schmoozing. Weather was kind to us until aruchat erev. Huge amount of hugs. Saw last 6 or 7 roshei machaneh:Perri Arnold, Leilah Pomerantz, Esther Lederman, 2 Naperstaks come [...] 12223 18 16_Re: Mosh reunion0_15_Moshava@aol.com29_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:02:26 EDT313_US-ASCII I love reading the Mosh reunion reports. It's fun to see something through someone else's eyes. I only have one correction to Alan's take on the day. There were way more than 230 people there. There were over 300 people registered and we had over 100 just show up. Its the Mosh way to just show up! [...] 12242 34 16_Re: Mosh Reunion12_Honor Family18_jnhonor@rcknet.com31_Tue, 29 Aug 2000 22:41:14 -0400391_us-ascii Trudi and other interested in the reunion--

Look at it this way...I stayed over at machaneh, so my reunion went on a little longer than some. When I got home on Monday and started to tell my husband about it, he could only say, "The last time you saw these people was how many years ago??" It didn't matter how long ago it was; Mosh made quite an impression on my life. [...] 12277 15 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 01:52:13 EDT317_US-ASCII Was the book review on line? Can someoe post the address so others of us can read it? Thanks

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12293 26 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 09:46:44 +0300581_us-ascii My parents were staunch, active members of Poale Zion, Farband, Labor Zionist Alliance, Pioneer Women (Na'amat) for as long as I can remember. My father held national positions and worked all his life for Israel - he was not in it for the insurance deals, Max.

I vaguely remember spending time - a weekend or a week - at Unser Camp with them when I was very small - pre-Mosh, early 1950's. It was definitely aimed at adults, Yiddish-language activities, and I really can't remember what I did. I was probably dragged along because they had nowhere else to put [...] 12320 35 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT10_Gidon Elad21_gidel@hatzerim.org.il31_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 05:08:30 +0200633_iso-8859-8 can sombody tell me more about Creamridge? As a collector of Haggadot I have a HABONIM Haggadah published there but I know nothing about the place and its function Thanks Gidon Elad, Kibbutz Chtazerim

>Benny best regards to you and Harriet from all of your Creamridge >chaverim here in Kibbutz Maayan Baruch. > MENDY MENDELSON > > > > HAVE A GOOD DAY !!! > >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > > [...] 12356 32 32_Re: Mosh Reunion & Labor Zionism11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:24:19 -0400328_us-ascii



Dov Liberman wrote:

> ... > > One can support peace and support a democratic, secular Israel without > identifying oneself as a Labor Zionist. Elihu, what would be the issues that > would be particular to a LABOR Zionist approach, as opposed to any other > secular Zionist approach? > > Dov [...] 12389 35 23_Re: Your Admired Column7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:41:56 +0300588_us-ascii The Contrariness of Modern Hebrew, or The Cat Came Back

Hi Amnon and Rivka,

First, how are you? We've been keeping well, kids growing (of course). Ami graduated from HU and is now actually working - for a Haganat Hateva subsidiary, Megama Yeruka, trying to build up awareness for ecological concerns in Israel and also fundraise - know anyone who'd like to support such a worthy cause? On the opposite end is our youngest, who is off to a pre-army religious mechina in the bik'a. The middle son is studying archeology. So everyone is attached to the land - in [...] 12425 19 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:51:50 EDT383_US-ASCII I assume that Kindervelt was a Farband camp just like the Farband camp I went to from 1952-56 in Chelsea, Michigan, before I went to Midwest Camp Habonim/Tavor. My parents stayed at the "hotel" when I was 6 in 1952. The camp store was the "kreml," many of the songs were in Yiddish, and my first counselor was "Shami," a grandmotherly type with a Russian accent. Aviva [...] 12445 26 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 19:41:05 EDT331_US-ASCII My mom was on the Chavah, as it was called in the 40s, in Creamridge, NJ which members of the Movement went to for hachsharah in preparation for making aliya to Israel. Her madrich was Avshalom Carmelli from Petach Tikvah who gave them their fill of ideological sichot as well as teaching them how to plant saplings. [...] 12472 59 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT9_Ben Cohen14_bencee@rcn.com31_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 20:38:21 -0400582_iso-8859-8 Dear Gideon: Creamridge. New Jersey, was the location of one of the Hechalutz hachsharot in the US in the '40's. This was the place where Habonim olim candidates were based. There was another one, not far away in Hightstown, where the Hashomer Hatzair kids were base. Since we were not too far away from New York City, we were oftern visited by members of Habonim on weekends and during vacations. We did once create a "Hachshara haggadah", modeled after ones we had seen which had been sent to us by various kibbutzim. We also had winter seminars, during the times [...] 12532 85 7_reunion0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Wed, 30 Aug 2000 22:25:01 -0400373_us-ascii One more letter about the reunion (for some reason it wouldn't go yesterday):



Yesterday morning Tammy & I were cleaning up the morning after. Everyone was gone and the machaneh seemed very beautiful to me. Even tho I'm now just a mother of chanichim, I love this Mosh almost as much as the old one - maybe in a sense they are one and the same. [...] 12618 56 23_Re: Your Admired Column12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:17:17 +0200533_iso-8859-1 Trudy Shalom, As we get older we find ourselves lapsing into that other language of the Jews and of our parents. Reading your message about your three sons and their doings made me think of the Yiddish expression: Nahes fun kinder. " So everyone is attached to the land - in such different ways!" is truly something Doug and you can feel satisfaction and pride in [forgive the in at the end of the sentence.] And I in turn, bask in the nahes of having had you for a hanikhah. I'll send the piece to Baruch Feldstern. [...] 12675 61 29_RE: 100 Years of togetherness12_Brian Cooper21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:01:09 -0400606_iso-8859-1 Hi Ilana,

Do you still have copies of this book for sale?

Thanks and regards, brian cooper / habonet

> -----Original Message----- > From: SMG54321@aol.com [mailto:SMG54321@aol.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 5:41 PM > To: habonet@shamash.org > Subject: 100 Years of togetherness > > > Hi: > > My name is Ilana Goldstein. I live in Rickville, Maryland. I > grew up on > Kibbutz Kfar Blum. My father is Saadia Gelb, one of Habonim's > founders. He > recently wrote a book about kibbutz life called "Almost One > Hundred Years of > Togetherness" > > Recently and [...] 12737 17 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:58:45 EDT308_US-ASCII Thank you Ben Cohen and everyone else for clarifying this. I had not heard of the camp. Have you read the Freedman book? My Best wishes--Jack Porter and by the way, has anyone ever videotaped your memories and reminiscences? If you ever get to Boston (Newton), I could and would do it! Shalom. [...] 12755 24 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:16:13 EDT561_US-ASCII Aliya Dearest, Ben Cohen and Edward Glick, both vatikim, say that it indeed was a Labor Zionist camp and that the Communist Camp was Kinderland and the WC camp was Boiberik. This camp was in Monroe, NY. So, I have to go with them; they are vatikim. But everone missed the main point of the Freedman book--why did it fold in 1971 and was it "replaced" by Orthodox forces like Kiryas Joel? In short, Samuel freedman's thesis is that secular Judaism is and was in decline and is being replaced by religious forces. Is he correct? That, class, is the [...] 12780 21 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:24:22 EDT548_US-ASCII Deare Marian/NY MOMMA: This is getting complicated and even weird--Edward Glick writes that the WC camp was Boiberik; you say it was Kinder Ring; plus you say that right across from it across the lake was the Communist Camp Kinderland, both in Hopewell Junction, New York. Kinderwelt in Monroe was a Labor Zionist camp. It was sponsored by Farband and was connected to Unser Camp ("Our Camp"), the adult Frband. Hey, it's beginning to make sense. However, are there two WC camps--Boiberik and Kinder Ring? In confusion, Jackie Porter [...] 12802 15 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:25:34 EDT323_US-ASCII To VFINK, is that Varda from Milwaukee? Yes, it was a Farband camp. you are correct? Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12818 20 18_Re: Camp Kindewelt0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:33:06 EDT540_US-ASCII To Sam Bergman: Yes, memories are strange things and the "hunt" for the real Kindervelt is indeed turningout to be a very strange trip, but do tell us about its demise, but perhaps read Freedman's book first and in fact, why don't we all read his book first--BECAUSE of all the Labor Zionist (but not necessarily Habonim/Dror camps) he chooses this camp as his opening chapter and then continues with several other "examples" of "Jew vs. Jew". To be continued and hi, Sam, it was great to see you again in NYC!--JACKIE PORTER [...] 12839 14 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:46:44 EDT284_US-ASCII Dear Debbie--it was a Farband LZ camp--My best, Jack Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12854 20 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:53:20 EDT510_US-ASCII Dear Mendy Mendelson: You and Ben Cohen are correct--that is why it is so important for you all to be videotaped and give your oral testimonies and histories; us younger folks rely on hearsay and quasi-memories but you were there! To avoid future errors, please videotape your memoirs and send them to the American Jewish Archives, 3101 Clifton Ave., Cincinnati, Ohio 45220 Att: Dr. Gary Zola---I am starting up a Habonim/Dror/Farband/LZOA file there. Let's add to it. My best--Jack Nusan Porter [...] 12875 15 9_Re: Hello0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 15:55:43 EDT318_US-ASCII Dear Roslyn: I was on the Machon a year after you. Chat with me off-line. Thanks--Jack Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12891 16 20_Re: Camp Kinderwelt?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:06:24 EDT384_US-ASCII The book review appears in the August 25 issue of the FORWARD and in many local Jewish and general newspapers. And it's in all major bookstores.--Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12908 17 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:12:52 EDT308_US-ASCII Dear Aviva: Yes, Kindervelt was a Farband LZ camp. Was the Farband camp in Chelsea, Michigan also called Kindervelt and was it a separate camp from Camp Habonim or its predecessors, and why two camps? One Farband, one Habonim? Was one for Adults and one for "children"?--My best, Jackie Porter [...] 12926 52 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 16:20:27 -0500 (CDT)579_us-ascii Actually, Kindervelt continued into Habonim days. I was never there, but my cousin (Joel Migdal--yes the same one who wrote a book about the Palestinians) was a waiter at Unser Camp well into the 1960's and remembers Kinderwelt very well.

The camp was definitely sponsored by the Labor Zionist Farband. It did not become part of the Habonim network--probably because of its Yiddish, rather than Hebrew, orientation. There were many Yiddishist Zionists, most of whom remained loyal to the Zionist idea even after the Zionist movement took the "Hebrew route". [...] 12979 15 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:44:11 EDT360_US-ASCII I don't remember the name of the Farband camp in Chelsea but it definitely was a separate camp. They had bus boys to wait their tables!

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 12995 196 24_Moshtime and Habotime!!!4_Ezra26_foundation@habonimdror.org31_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:04:45 -0400577_iso-8859-1

Dear Habonetters,

I too was lucky enough to be at the Mosh reunion this past Sunday. I had a great time and I'm not even a Moshnick. I've now been to Mosh, Galil and Tavor's 50th reunion. I was really impressed with how Mosh was able to mobilize people from all different generations. Kol Hakavod to their reunion committee for making the extra effort to include the younger generation. I saw people from my Mosh kvutza who I hadn't seen in years. With much help and thanks to Judy Gelman, the Habonim Dror Foundation was able to make a presence [...] 13192 94 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:52:27 -0700554_iso-8859-1 The Farband Labor Zionist Yiddish camp in Chelsea, some 20 miles from my home, was called Camp Kinneret. I and my family visited the abandoned place some 5 or 6 years ago. We still have some pictures.

My wife's uncle had a cottage by the lake on the Farband Camp side (the families' side, not the youth side), and my wife's parents spent a couple of nights there, later, in 1949 and 1950. My wife's father, Sy Salinger, who guided our visit to the place, was on the technical crew of Camp Kinneret in the summer of 1939, some half [...] 13287 23 19_Re: CAMP KINDERVELT0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:23:50 EDT620_US-ASCII I checked this out with Lenny Zurakov and combined his memories with my experience. Farband Camp Kindervelt in Chelsea, Michigan, which I attended for 5 summers in the early '50's, was across the road from Camp Kinneret, the Detroit area Habonim Camp. Kinneret coexisted for a time with another midwest area Habonim camp, Yad Ari. All were LZA camps, but the Farband camp had a Yiddish, not Hebrew, orientation. Kinneret crossed the road to use the Kindervelt lake. On the Kindervelt lake site were private cottages, primarily owned by Detroit folks. There was also a resort hotel where LZA-Farband adults [...]