1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet May 2000
2 16 22_Re: Seeking Horseteeth0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com28_Mon, 1 May 2000 08:33:39 EDT312_US-ASCII STAN'S ADDRESS FOR AVI ASNER'S PARENTS WAS SPELLED WRONG. TRY THIS: HASNER@NOTHNBUT.NET
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19 26 22_Re: Seeking Horseteeth8_JON BAUM19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Mon, 1 May 2000 17:33:02 +0300499_iso-8859-1 Thanks alot. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 3:33 PM Subject: Re: Seeking Horseteeth
> STAN'S ADDRESS FOR AVI ASNER'S PARENTS WAS SPELLED WRONG. > TRY THIS: > HASNER@NOTHNBUT.NET > >
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46 20 17_Re: Kumsitz 2000!0_17_Llamamint@aol.com28_Mon, 1 May 2000 10:53:03 EDT473_US-ASCII you can also try the youth hostels (1 even has a sat. morning service held there!) that one is on AMsterdam ave. around 106th st. although not as liked as another one around the 50's- if people need the details i can try to find them,
-ilana
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67 39 3_Re:13_Miriam Lamdan19_miriaml@jazo.org.il30_Mon, 1 May 2000 11:51:20 -0400486_iso-8859-1
----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2000 11:12 AM Subject: RE:
> To unsubscribe, send an email to: > listproc@shamash.org (note: NOT habonet@shamash.org) > with the message: > unsubscribe habonet > > that's it. > > regards, > brian > > > > > > > Please take me off your list, If you have information on > > British Habonim i > > would be interested. > > Shabbat- Shalom > > [...]
107 27 37_The Privacy of Teeth, Horse and other19_Nesher G. Asner, MD15_neshera@uic.edu31_Mon, 01 May 2000 22:04:56 -0500465_us-ascii
I doubt very much that my parents mind (given who's on this list), but in the future you might not wish to post other people's e-mail addresses, etc. on public lists. Private replies might work better.
Nesher (Avi's littlest brother, AKA LittleTeeth)
Nesher G. Asner, MD Neurological Clinic of Rockford 2825 Glenwood Avenue Rockford, IL 61101 Tel: 815-965-9548 Fax: 815-965-9712 e-mail: NesherA@uic.edu Web site: www.neurodoc.md [...]
135 12 8_Sid Troy0_16_YonatonS@aol.com24_Tue May 02 14:20:30 2000539_- I was deeply saddened to hear about the passing of Sid Troy. It's amazing how quickly I flashed back to when Sid would come to town (LA) and sit with us chevre to get camp set up. This was at a time when Sid was director of the Habonim Camping Association. He knew just how to balance the needs of the movement ideologically with the financial needs of running a successful camping program. In fact I owe much of my own career development to Sid's suggestion that I become business manager of Gilboa in the late '60's. He knew that [...]
148 43 15_Re: lost tribes12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 02 May 2000 13:56:04 -0500 (CDT)323_us-ascii Rachel,
The reason that this research doesn't make sense to me is that there are so many people who are not now Jewish who are descended from Jews. Many people who have no idea that they have Jrewish ancestry would have the "marker." How, then, could one possibly distinguish a particular Jewish gene? [...]
192 24 25_Bialystok album anyone???0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 15:36:58 PST560_US-ASCII Although I can not imagine anyone giving up his Bialystok Album if he owns one, I nevertheless decided to write my lists and ask if anyone on this earth is willing to part with a Bialystok album in his possession. If so, I am willing to buy it no questions asked. Please contact me by email or telephone 02-5865552. If you do not possess the Bialystok Album but know where I can search one out please please inform me. B'ruchim t'hiyu! pearl ------------------------------------- E-mail: skolnik@netvision.net.il Date: 04/01/80 Time: 03:36:58 PM [...]
217 37 15_Re: lost tribes0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Tue, 2 May 2000 17:28:16 EDT589_US-ASCII Dov,
The only connection any "Jewish gene" would prove is that people who have it -- whether they are currently Jewish or not -- are all descended from a common ancestor, presumably an ancient Hebrew (it's apparently even possible to determine approximately how long ago that ancestor lived). Assuming that, like the Cohen marker, the Jewish gene is passed along only from father to son, a yeshiva bocher in Brooklyn who doesn't have the gene must have a Caananite lurking in the family tree. An altar boy who does have the gene could be a direct descendant of one of [...]
255 27 33_Sounds like "aleh v'hagshem" work0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Tue, 2 May 2000 23:39:59 EDT575_US-ASCII
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 16:43:02 -0400 To: jewish-announce@shamash.org From: Lauren Levy Subject: Jewish Educator announcement
Wanted:
Jewish educator with at least 3-5 years of experience working with teens and/or college students. Position is with an innovative educational organization in Washington D.C. running an award winning national program synthesizing Judaism, social justice and community service. Competitive salary and benefits. Contact SidS@wijlv.org or fax resume to 301-770-6365 att: Rabbi Sid Schwarz. [...]
283 59 30_May Day for the New Millennium0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Wed, 3 May 2000 00:00:29 EDT534_ISO-8859-1 Chevre, shalom!
Can we try this version at the upcoming NY/Naaleh Kumzitz?
Chaver Steve ===========================================
Subject: May Day for the New Millennium Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:40:24 -0400 From: Arthur Waskow
Dear Chevra, In honor of May Day.
May it help reunite the May Day of spring, flowers, and Maypoles with the May Day of freedom and justice, in the name of the Place that is our planet, enfolded in the Place beyond all places. -- Arthur [...]
343 83 32_FW: Registering for Habonet List13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Wed, 03 May 2000 07:33:36 -07001028_utf-8 ---------- From: "Michael Livni" <ml-lotan@zahav.net.il> To: BCooper@descartes.com Subject: Registering for Habonet List Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 20:52:25 -0700 Shalom To All I received "Chadashot for the first time and I think the time has come to catch up with old chaverim. So please include me on Habonet. My mail address is: Kibbutz Lotan, D.N.Chevel Eilot Israel 888557 Tel. 972-7-6356968 Fax 972-7-635682 (for Michael Livni) Signing off - B'virkat Chaverim - Michael Livni a.k.a.(in the past) Max Langer, Vancouver Habonim 1950 - 1959 Br
427 126 11_Monthly FAQ12_Jennifer Kay19_kay@elvis.rowan.edu31_Wed, 03 May 2000 02:32:02 -0400421_- Actually-from:BCooper@descartes.com
Hi Chevre,
Here is a reminder of the "essential" commands that you can use to configure your subscription to Habonet. I will post this monthly from now on. Please note -- The address for commands is: listproc@shamash.org whereas the address for posts to the list is: habonet@shamash.org If you need any help with any of it, send me an email: BCooper@descartes.com [...]
554 35 21_Come to DC and March!0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Wed, 3 May 2000 14:54:35 EDT438_US-ASCII (I'm sorry if this is a duplicate, Shamash was not clear on what did or didn't go wrong) _____________________________________________________________________
No, not that March*
this one is for dogs, dog owners, and anyone who has ever been a dog owner...
Sunday, May 7, from 10 AM to 2PM wag your tail at the FIRST ANNUAL MILLION MUTT MARCH! (no fund-raising, no blockades, no celebrity performances) [...]
590 28 24_info on The Peace Corps?0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Wed, 3 May 2000 17:38:16 EDT404_US-ASCII I've got a (somewhat unexpected) job interview with the top three administrators of The National Peace Corps Association THIS FRIDAY. The job is Executive Coordinator/Planner of a year's worth of programming and events culminating with a major celebration for the 40th anniversary of the Corps. I'd be working out of the main office in DC, but it's not clear if this is a Federal position. [...]
619 112 20_Re: coalition gov't.12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 04 May 2000 17:26:46 -0500 (CDT)597_us-ascii And this would be bad because.....?
>The following piece was sent out on the internet from Meretz. > > >> In a special meeting yesterday, Meretz decided to resign from the >> government should Prime Minister >> Barak decide to transfer funds to Shas, contrary to the rules of good >> administration at the Ministry of >> Education. Should this be the case, Meretz ministers will resign from >> the government but Meretz will >> remain a part of the coalition "for a limited period of time" in order >> to support P.M. Barak's peace >> initiatives. In any case [...]
732 28 12_worm warning0_17_Geokat100@aol.com28_Thu, 4 May 2000 18:44:27 EDT608_US-ASCII Kol habonet:
I'm sure everyone's heard about this by now, but just in case you haven't, there's a malicious e-mail worm on the loose. It comes as an attachment to an e-mail which appears to be from a familiar person (mine was from my best friend's husband). The subject line is ILOVEYOU, and the attachment is LOVE-L ETTER-FOR-YOU.TXT.vbs. DELETE the e-mail. Whatever you do, DON'T open the attachment, because this worm will send itself to your entire address book and it spreads like wildfire; many, many servers have been disabled today due to the excessive volume of e-mail the worm [...]
761 17 4_oops14_Ethan Schwartz18_schwar@isdn.net.il31_Fri, 05 May 2000 06:44:43 +0200403_iso-8859-1 OOPS, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to drop a bomb from my billion dollar supersonic War toy on you village. Really I'm sorry!!
I said I'm sorry, so why are you hitting back?
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779 259 0_11_Dani Lamdan24_shaliach@habonimdror.org30_Fri, 5 May 2000 12:38:41 -0400386_iso-8859-8-i
Shalom Lekulam
My name is Dani Lamdan, I am the new Central Shaliach of HDNA.
We bouth, Miriam (my wife) and me are second generation
of Habonim's, oure parents made Alya to Kibutz Urim in the late
40's and have been living there since then.
We leave in kibutz Urim, but since September 99 we located in N.Y, [...]
1039 283 0_11_Dani Lamdan24_shaliach@habonimdror.org30_Fri, 5 May 2000 13:48:53 -0400379_iso-8859-8-i Hi Lekulam I am Terribly sorry for the spelling mistake I head in the first E-Mail, here is the correct one ! Shabbat Shalom Dani L.
Shalom Lekulam
My name is Dani Lamdan, I am the new Central Shaliach of HDNA.
We both, Miriam (my wife) and me are second generation
of Habonim's, aware parents made Aliya to Kibbutz Urim in the late [...]
1323 132 35_PM Barak and the Diaspora - changes0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Fri, 5 May 2000 14:03:11 EDT410_US-ASCII Chevre, Shabat shalom!
Sorry for the longish post, but I wanted to highlight the upcoming remarks of PM Barak on the changing relationship between Israeli Jews and Diaspora Jews. Just sniping text from the speech would not have gotten the idea across. I thing the changes are remarkable and need to be the basis for rethinking how we can build new bridges between our two Jewish cultures. [...]
1456 199 34_FW: QuickIntro as per your request13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Fri, 05 May 2000 21:08:36 -07001203_utf-8 ---------- From: "Michael Livni" <ml-lotan@zahav.net.il> To: habonet@shamah.org Subject: FW: QuickIntro as per your request Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 07:35:32 -0700 ---------- From: "Michael Livni" <ml-lotan@zahav.net.il> To: BCooper@descartes.com Subject: QuickIntro as per your request Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 12:56:45 -0700 Shalom L'Culam Yes - here I am. Michael Livni aka in the past --Max Langer. The 21st century is here and a few months ago I hooked up to cybernetic space. Since the mid-Seventies when I was sent on Shlichut from Gesher Haziv to the UAHC by Ichud Hakvutzot and Kibbutzim of blessed memory I have been involved with [...]
1656 20 39_Re: PM Barak and the Diaspora - changes0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Fri, 5 May 2000 14:44:24 EDT362_US-ASCII Chaver Steve:
Thanks for posting that. Long live idealism! A real feel-good speech.
Yichee!
Chavera Debbie b'Seattle
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1677 22 29_Re: Bialystok album anyone???0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Fri, 5 May 2000 21:21:13 EDT332_US-ASCII Memorial books like the Bialostoyk book are very rare, but YIVO in NYC has one; and perhaps Yad Vashem and the US Holocaust Memorial Museum. If someone does have one. Xerox it and send copies. Never send the original; they are much too rare. Send it to YIVO instead.
Sincerely,
Jack Nusan Porter [...]
1700 34 10_Re: Lamdan12_AviRosenberg18_avi@gezernet.co.il30_Sat, 6 May 2000 10:19:43 +0200428_iso-8859-1 I think the first version was better.
aviRosenberg ---------------------- WebDesign Webscape Israel http://www,webscape.co.il Tel:+972-89204075 Fax:+972-8-9206771 ----- Original Message ----- From: Dani Lamdan To: Habonet Sent: Friday, May 05, 2000 7:48 PM
Hi Lekulam I am Terribly sorry for the spelling mistake I head in the first E-Mail, here is the correct one ! Shabbat Shalom Dani L. [...]
1735 20 26_Yom Ha-Zikaron a site 57607_Barland19_abarland@execpc.com31_Sun, 07 May 2000 20:23:26 -0500422_us-ascii I am sending a site I found for Yom Hazikaron. One needs Hebrew fonts to view it. I do not know how to send it as an attachment, so I am just sending the URL. Rozzie
http://www.izkor.gov.il/
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1756 112 33_Our celebrations, their tragedies0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Sun, 7 May 2000 22:26:48 EDT407_US-ASCII Chevre, shalom!
Holocaust Day, Memorial Day and Independence Day. Very powerful holidays in Israel and even in the Diaspora. There are things we must remember and things we must celebrate.
But are we beginning, also to be able, to recognize Palestinian reality enough to see that these are not the holidays of all Israeli's. Certainly not the holidays of the Palestinian nation? [...]
1869 32 24_RE: Harry & Sylvia Cohen0_21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Mon, 8 May 2000 07:02:32 -0400343_iso-8859-1 sorry for the delay -- just changed your habonet subscription.
regards, brian cooper / list admin
> > Effective immediately our new e-mail address is: > > harrysyl@bellatlantic.net > > We will continue using the aol address until April 15. > > Regards to all, > > Harry & Sylvia Cohen > > [...]
1902 15 17_Telephone numbers0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Mon, 8 May 2000 15:16:11 EDT345_US-ASCII Does anyone out there know of a way to get a telephone number for someone in Israel without making a long distance call.
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1918 55 15_Re: lost tribes12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 08 May 2000 14:11:33 -0500 (CDT)487_us-ascii Dear Rahel,
Since Jewish tradition says that one is jewish if one's mother is Jewish, then one would not be able to trace a "Jewish gene" via patrilineage. In addition, there is the problem of all the people who have converted or been converted (See the adventurees of King David.) to Judaism. The whole business strikes me as a bit strange, and I am not certain what the point of it is. Judaism has always defined its peoplehood in terms of covenant, not of blood. [...]
1974 74 15_Re: lost tribes11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 08 May 2000 15:26:00 -0400368_us-ascii Perhaps I'm dense (please don't all agree at once :-), but isn't there a contradiction between the statements "Jewish tradition says that one is jewish if one's mother is Jewish" and "Judaism has always defined its peoplehood in terms of covenant, not of blood"?
Noam
p.s. Gee Rachel, Dov has given you a new spelling for your birthday :-) [...]
2049 28 21_Re: Telephone numbers14_Ethan Schwartz18_schwar@isdn.net.il31_Mon, 08 May 2000 22:29:11 +0200427_iso-8859-1 http://www.144.bezek.com/ This requires Hebrew fonts for your browser but it gives you access to the entire directory. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 9:16 PM Subject: Telephone numbers
> Does anyone out there know of a way to get a telephone number for someone in > Israel without making a long distance call. > > [...]
2078 124 37_Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 08 May 2000 14:27:10 -0500 (CDT)344_us-ascii There is no doubt that the holidays and commemorations you mention (below)are not the holidays and commemorations of the Palestinian nation. They are the holidays of the Jewish nation. That is why the proper memorials and celebrations are held in Israel, the state and homeland of the Jewish people. It seems pretty simple to me. [...]
2203 45 15_Re: lost tribes0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Mon, 8 May 2000 16:50:53 EDT583_US-ASCII Dov,
Actually, I'm not involved in the research, so there's really no point in confronting me with your opinion of it. All I know is what the American and Israeli researchers said on "60 Minutes": that they are looking for a genetic marker that will indicate if a certain group of men descended from one ancestor in a certain part of the Middle East, and how long ago that ancestor lived -- just as they found the "Cohen" marker primarily (by percentage, within various populations) in men who have a family tradition of being Cohanim through the ages (an honor [...]
2249 60 56_Re: HABONET digest 1527Our celebrations, their tragedies0_17_HiamAmnon@aol.com28_Mon, 8 May 2000 18:13:10 EDT562_US-ASCII
Steve, I think that Gideon Levy is a bit of a muchness. There are 51 other weeks a year to express sorrow and to redress the tragedy of the Palestinians forced to live in surrogate addresses. (for the record, forced to do so when their intransigent, shortsighted leaders told them to leave their villages.) This is not the week. This is the week to be beholden to the 6,000 women and men who fell in the war of independence so that 600,000 men, women and children were neither massacred or "thrown into the sea." This is the week to admire [...]
2310 15 12_(no subject)0_17_HiamAmnon@aol.com28_Mon, 8 May 2000 19:59:16 EDT260_US-ASCII sorry, I sent the reply twice Amnon
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
2326 264 50_The Master Database of the Habonim Dror Foundation4_Ezra26_foundation@habonimdror.org30_Mon, 8 May 2000 22:54:23 -0400603_iso-8859-1 A Big PHAT Shalom from the Habonim Dror Foundation Administrator and I also happen to be Rosh Machaneh Galil 2000,
Everyday I receive at least one email from a former Chaver Tnua asking for the address of some of their old chaverim. People are beginning to call me at the Habonim Dror Foundation (646-486-1689) and utilizing our Database. We currently have over 5000 names - constituting the largest Habonim Dror alumni database in North America. This can be a tremendous resource, but it takes a lot of work to continue to update it. Everytime the Habonim Dror Foundation does a [...]
2591 23 21_Re: Telephone numbers12_Honor Family18_jnhonor@rcknet.com31_Tue, 09 May 2000 00:18:50 -0400541_us-ascii Email someone is Israel and ask them to look it up in the telephone book??
Ain't technology grand. If you have Hebrew fonts in your browser there are some Israeli telephone directories available on the web, but I don't know whether they are all yellow pages type or residential.
Good luck.
Naomi
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2615 22 21_Re: Telephone numbers11_Tsippi Rudy21_tsip@worldnet.att.net31_Mon, 08 May 2000 23:34:45 -0700482_us-ascii Try calling your local consulate; they usually have all the local Israeli phone books.
At 03:16 PM 5/8/00 EDT, you wrote: >Does anyone out there know of a way to get a telephone number for someone in >Israel without making a long distance call. > > >
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2638 179 37_Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies8_JON BAUM19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Tue, 9 May 2000 10:00:14 +0300634_iso-8859-1 Yes. From a distance, everything looks pretty simple. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dov Liberman To: Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies
> There is no doubt that the holidays and commemorations you mention > (below)are not the holidays and commemorations of the Palestinian nation. > They are the holidays of the Jewish nation. That is why the proper memorials > and celebrations are held in Israel, the state and homeland of the Jewish > people. It seems pretty simple to me. > > Dov > > > >Chevre, shalom! > [...]
2818 20 15_Re: lost tribes11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 09 May 2000 09:54:25 -0400374_us-ascii
More on the genetics discussion from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/050900sci-genetics-jews.html
Noam
------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
2839 90 15_Re: lost tribes12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 09 May 2000 12:36:13 -0500 (CDT)440_us-ascii No contradicition between matrilineal descent and idea of covenant. First, people are allowed to convert to Judaism, i.e. to accept the covenant. Second it was assumed that Jewish education came from the home (the mother) and that children of a Jewish mother would be instructed in the covenant. The battle over converts was, apparently, a fierce one (see book of Ezra vs. book of Ruth), but the full acceptance camp won out. [...]
2930 57 15_Re: lost tribes12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 09 May 2000 12:38:50 -0500 (CDT)601_us-ascii Dear Rachel,
I believe that your message below with regard to genetic markers got to the heart of my unconscious trepidations. I fear skeletons in my family genetic closet.
Dov
>Dov, > >Actually, I'm not involved in the research, so there's really no point in >confronting me with your opinion of it. All I know is what the American and >Israeli researchers said on "60 Minutes": that they are looking for a genetic >marker that will indicate if a certain group of men descended from one >ancestor in a certain part of the Middle East, and how long ago that [...]
2988 71 56_Re: HABONET digest 1527Our celebrations, their tragedies12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 09 May 2000 12:41:27 -0500 (CDT)613_us-ascii Dear Amnon,
Thank you for the message below.
Dov
>Steve, I think that Gideon Levy is a bit of a muchness. There are 51 other >weeks a year to express sorrow and to redress the tragedy of the >Palestinians forced to live in surrogate addresses. (for the record, forced >to do so when their intransigent, shortsighted leaders told them to leave >their villages.) This is not the week. This is the week to be beholden to >the 6,000 women and men who fell in the war of independence so that 600,000 >men, women and children were neither massacred or "thrown [...]
3060 91 56_RE: HABONET digest 1527Our celebrations, their tragedies12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Tue, 9 May 2000 14:10:06 -0400576_iso-8859-1 Amnon - well said, as always! -Sharon
Steve, I think that Gideon Levy is a bit of a muchness. There are 51 other weeks a year to express sorrow and to redress the tragedy of the Palestinians forced to live in surrogate addresses. (for the record, forced to do so when their intransigent, shortsighted leaders told them to leave their villages.) This is not the week. This is the week to be beholden to the 6,000 women and men who fell in the war of independence so that 600,000 men, women and children were neither massacred or "thrown into the [...]
3152 22 18_Mosh Reunion 2000!0_15_Moshava@aol.com28_Tue, 9 May 2000 14:12:45 EDT461_US-ASCII Chevre: It is with great excitement that I announce to all Moshava Alumni (and friends of Moshava Alumni) that we just mailed the registration flier for the upcoming Mosh 2000 event to be held at Habonim Dror Camp Moshava, Bel Air Maryland on August 27, 2000. If you don't receive a blue flier in the next few days email me to request one. We know we are missing many many alumni so get on our list quickly! We look forward to seeing you at Mosh! [...]
3175 653 34_Re: QuickIntro as per your request10_Gidon Elad21_gidel@hatzerim.org.il30_Tue, 9 May 2000 21:35:19 +0200718_utf-8 I did not get anything, just rubbish. Gidon -----Original Message----- From: Michael Livni To: habonet@shamash.org Date: יום שישי 05 מאי 2000 20:09 Subject: FW: QuickIntro as per your request
ג€----------ג€¬ Fromג€: "ג€¬Michaelג€ ג€¬Livniג€" <ג€¬mlג€-ג€¬lotan@zahavג€.ג€¬netג€.ג€¬ilג€>ג€¬ Toג€: ג€¬habonet@shamahג€.ג€¬org Subjectג€: ג€¬FWג€: ג€¬QuickIntroג€ ג€¬asג€ ג€¬perג€ ג€¬yourג€ ג€¬request Dateג€: ג€¬Wedג€, 03 ג€¬Mayג€ 2000 07:35:32 -0700ג€¬ [...]
3829 372 3_Re:10_Gidon Elad21_gidel@hatzerim.org.il31_Wed, 10 May 2000 08:06:50 +0200366_iso-8859-8-i Chag Sameach, Danny Good luck on your new position. How is the connection between HDNA and HaNoar HaOved developing? I will be happy to help in anything I can. Have a great Yom HaAtzmaut. Gidon Elad Chatzerim -----Original Message----- From: Dani Lamdan To: Habonet Date: 05 2000 19:56 [...]
4202 93 37_Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Wed, 10 May 2000 05:55:54 -0400316_us-ascii Amnon, shalom,
Adraba, a people who out of respect for the opppressors who perished recite hatzi hallel on Pesach, and diminish their cup of joy when reciting the plagues, can find in the midst of commemorations and memorials a moment to acknowledge the suffering of those who lost when we won. [...]
4296 158 50_Haaretz Daily Newspaper - English Internet Edition11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Wed, 10 May 2000 06:14:45 -0400156_us-ascii Chevre,
Once again, an Israeli Op-ed shows how far we have come.
Mark
http://www3.haaretz.co.il/eng/scripts/print.asp?id=77842
4455 44 27_My Hebrew Dictionary online0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 10 May 2000 10:59:27 EDT457_US-ASCII From: "Jacob Richman" To: jewish-announce@shamash.org Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 05:21:12 +0200 Subject: My Hebrew Dictionary - 10 New Sections
Hi Everyone!
In honor of Israel Independence Day (Wednesday May 10), ten new sections have been added to the on-line My Hebrew Dictionary.
New sections include: First Aid, Furniture, Games, Jerusalem, Kitchen, Office, Relatives, Shabbat, Transportation, Weather. [...]
4500 169 48_Red Letter Dates in the History of Who is a Jew?17_Martin J. Goodman25_mgoodman@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 10 May 2000 19:51:28 +0200648_us-ascii The ongoing "Lost Tribe" thread raises the perennial question of what makes a Jew a Jew: 1. Descent from the mother; 2. Descent from the father; 3. Entry of males into the circumcision covenant; 4. Conversion (forcible or otherwise); 5. Other factors.
Starting in patriarchal times, males became part of the Jewish people by circumcision; see Genesis 17:26-27 which states that Abraham, together with Ishmael his son and the slaves of Abraham's household (including slaves born under Abraham's rule and slaves purchased from heathens) were all circumcised. Parentage from the mother and from the father is not reported to have [...]
4670 22 37_re: our celebrations, their tragedies11_batya fromm18_fromm@inter.net.il31_Wed, 10 May 2000 12:19:39 +0300359_us-ascii To Mark Hammel, Shalom Rav, As a graduate of the Habonim Institute of 1948 and a citizen of Israel for 45 years, your posting reminds me of a comment by one of our teachers at the Institute, Kerland, concerning the Jews who questioned the justifying of the Zionist dream: "some people lean so far backwards that they see the world upside down". [...]
4693 39 37_re: our celebrations, their tragedies11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Wed, 10 May 2000 19:58:38 -0400432_us-ascii At 12:19 PM 5/10/2000 +0300, you wrote: >To Mark Hammel, Shalom Rav, >As a graduate of the Habonim Institute of 1948 and a citizen of Israel >for 45 years, >your posting reminds me of a comment by one of our teachers at the >Institute, Kerland, concerning the Jews who questioned the justifying of >the Zionist dream: >"some people lean so far backwards that they see the world upside down". > >Menachem (Edgar) Fromm [...]
4733 22 29_Possible Work for Habonimniks11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Wed, 10 May 2000 23:18:37 -0700448_us-ascii Hi, I have just been promoted to head my company's our education department and I need to hire trainers. If you are interested in working for a high tech company which actually offers a product and is not just another site, have either technical or training background, and enjoy traveling, please contact me directly, either at this address or at my work email: batel@realmedia.com (you can check out our site at: www.realmedia.com) [...]
4756 182 50_Haaretz Daily Newspaper - English Internet Edition11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Thu, 11 May 2000 06:36:58 -0400386_us-ascii Chevre,
Again, I post this out of delight and pride that these issues are being discussed so prominently in Israel. I wish I had some indication that the same were true among the older chevre in Habonim.
If anyone ever sees such writing in the American Jeish community weeklies such as Philadelphia's Jewish Exponent, I would be delighted to get word of it. [...]
4939 39 37_Re: our celebrations, their tragedies0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 11 May 2000 10:24:55 EDT432_US-ASCII
Menachem
My first instinct was to come to your defense. But before responding I re read the article and I agree with Mark that your comments had nothing to do with a very thoughtful article. My question to you Menachem is did you read the article and if you did can you explain what you had in mind and what your comment had to do with the article. I think you owe that to Steve and Mark at this point. [...]
4979 18 37_re: our celebrations, their tragedies0_12_SHX2@aol.com29_Thu, 11 May 2000 13:02:56 EDT303_US-ASCII Dear MarK,
Greetings. What sophomoric garbage do you mean?
Steve
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4998 29 37_Re: our celebrations, their tragedies11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 11 May 2000 13:14:23 -0400482_us-ascii SHX2@aol.com wrote:
> Dear MarK, > > Greetings. What sophomoric garbage do you mean? > > Steve
Dear Steve,
I believe he is referring to ""some people lean so far backwards that they see the world upside down" which is close to another expression that goes something like "if your mind is too open your brains fall out" which is also popular among habonet contributors who wish to dismiss positions which attempt to examine alternate perspectives. [...]
5028 144 37_Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 11 May 2000 12:45:10 -0500 (CDT)430_us-ascii Mark,
Setting aside a day to remember our dead and another day to remember our redemption does not show smug certitude or insensitivity to others. Our relatives and friends died. We mourn them. We killed in order to avoid being annihilated once again. For this we should also feel pain (as Golda Meir so eloquently expressed to Sadat), but we also can set aside time to mourn our own and to feel our own joy. [...]
5173 180 52_Re: Red Letter Dates in the History of Who is a Jew?12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 11 May 2000 12:49:54 -0500 (CDT)700_us-ascii Dear Martin,
Thanks for the wonderful history lesson.
Dov
>The ongoing "Lost Tribe" thread raises the perennial >question of what makes a Jew a Jew: >1. Descent from the mother; >2. Descent from the father; >3. Entry of males into the circumcision covenant; >4. Conversion (forcible or otherwise); >5. Other factors. > >Starting in patriarchal times, males became part of the >Jewish people by circumcision; see Genesis 17:26-27 which >states that Abraham, together with Ishmael his son and the >slaves of Abraham's household (including slaves born under >Abraham's rule and slaves purchased from heathens) were all >circumcised. Parentage from the [...]
5354 45 37_re: our celebrations, their tragedies12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 11 May 2000 12:51:35 -0500 (CDT)597_us-ascii sophomoric garbage can come from all sides of the political spectrum
>At 12:19 PM 5/10/2000 +0300, you wrote: >>To Mark Hammel, Shalom Rav, >>As a graduate of the Habonim Institute of 1948 and a citizen of Israel >>for 45 years, >>your posting reminds me of a comment by one of our teachers at the >>Institute, Kerland, concerning the Jews who questioned the justifying of >>the Zionist dream: >>"some people lean so far backwards that they see the world upside down". >> >>Menachem (Edgar) Fromm > > >Menachem, > >How clever. > >I thank God every day that I have the [...]
5400 19 37_Re: our celebrations, their tragedies12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 11 May 2000 12:54:13 -0500 (CDT)465_us-ascii Noam wrote "if your mind is too open your brains fall out" which is also popular among habonet contributors who wish to dismiss positions which attempt to examine alternate perspectives.
This time we are in 100% agreement.
Dov
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5420 19 52_Re: Red Letter Dates in the History of Who is a Jew?0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Thu, 11 May 2000 15:01:31 EDT341_US-ASCII Hey Marty - do you really know all this just from going to Yeshiva as a kid - or have you secretly been studying most seriously since you and your stated non- religiosity decided to make Aliyah? In any case - I always learn from you, especially since I don't have a lot of time for serious reading these days. bye for now. jpb [...]
5440 22 27_Palestinian Day of Mourning17_Efraim Perlmutter24_habesor@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 11 May 2000 23:52:29 +0200367_us-ascii I've been following the discussion about the activities of the Palestinians on Israel's Independence Day. I would like to point out something that seems a bit odd to me and appears to have been missed by most observers. This year the Palestinian Arabs insisted on determining the anniversary of their Naqbah according to the Hebrew calander. Weird huh? [...]
5463 177 37_Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Thu, 11 May 2000 22:12:16 -0400614_us-ascii Dov,
Thank you once again for delivering a lecture in response to a posting that was never written by me or anyone else.
Can you show us where the words "smug certitude or insensitivity" appeared. The string of postings follows your, so you won't even have to search your in-box.
Mark
At 12:45 PM 5/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Mark, > >Setting aside a day to remember our dead and another day to remember our >redemption does not show smug certitude or insensitivity to others. Our >relatives and friends died. We mourn them. We killed in order to avoid being >annihilated [...]
5641 51 18_Re: Smug Certitude12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG31_Thu, 11 May 2000 23:17:34 -0400598_- Mark - they *were* your words. Read the last paragraph. -Sharon
> ---------- > From: Mark Hammel[SMTP:mhammel@ulster.net] > Reply To: habonet@shamash.org > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:55 AM > To: habonet@shamash.org > Subject: Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies > > Amnon, shalom, > > Adraba, a people who out of respect for the opppressors who perished > recite hatzi hallel on Pesach, and diminish their cup of joy when reciting > the plagues, can find in the midst of commemorations and memorials a > moment > to acknowledge the suffering of those who lost when we won. > > [...]
5693 61 18_Re: Smug Certitude11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 11 May 2000 23:58:57 -0400624_us-ascii Sharon,
Show me where Mark said anything about insensitivity. Also, if you read Dov's post and Mark's you will see that the phrase "smug certitude" was not used in the context of describing the recent commemorations in Israel as Dov implies. Par for the course.
Noam
"Fine, Sharon" wrote:
> Mark - they *were* your words. Read the last paragraph. > -Sharon > > > ---------- > > From: Mark Hammel[SMTP:mhammel@ulster.net] > > Reply To: habonet@shamash.org > > Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:55 AM > > To: habonet@shamash.org > > Subject: Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies > > > [...]
5755 73 15_our celebration11_batya fromm18_fromm@inter.net.il31_Fri, 12 May 2000 08:51:01 +030056_us-ascii
file:///C|/My Documents/celebration.htm
5829 50 52_Re: Red Letter Dates in the History of Who is a Jew?17_Martin J. Goodman25_mgoodman@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 12 May 2000 09:24:42 +0200355_us-ascii 12 May 2000
Shalom Judy:
In Habonet Digest 1531, you ask regarding my quotations from Tanach as to what defines Jewish identity:
""" do you really know all this just from going to Yeshiva as a kid - or have you secretly been studying most seriously since you and your stated non- religiosity decided to make Aliyah? """ [...]
5880 69 18_Re: Smug Certitude11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Fri, 12 May 2000 08:45:19 -0400644_us-ascii Sharon,
Thank you for pointing that out to me. In that context, and as one who had such smug certitude at that age, I stand by my words and sentiments.
My apologies to Dov for being smugly certain that he was not responding to what I wrote.
Shabbat Shalom.
Mark
7 PM 5/11/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Mark - they *were* your words. Read the last paragraph. >-Sharon > >> ---------- >> From: Mark Hammel[SMTP:mhammel@ulster.net] >> Reply To: habonet@shamash.org >> Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2000 5:55 AM >> To: habonet@shamash.org >> Subject: Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies >> >> Amnon, shalom, [...]
5950 94 47_Adrabba, half full wine cups, and hatzi hallels0_17_HiamAmnon@aol.com29_Fri, 12 May 2000 20:39:26 EDT561_US-ASCII Last Night I had the Strangest Dream. I was in a reform synagogue in Brooklyn with my wife Rivka and our son Avi from kibbutz Lotan in the Aravah. The Israeli author A.B. Yehoshua, was speaking and I thought that suddenly sweet reason and peace had descended from the heavens. He spoke about what goes into (or rather, what precedes) the creative process and said that the spark for his novel Mr. Mani was ignited in Lebanon while he was a lecturer in the army. He had heard a general telling the troops there that soon they would capture Beirut, [...]
6045 50 57_A Wednesday eve parasha and A Shabbat Shalom for Mark....0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 12 May 2000 22:01:47 EDT577_US-ASCII Wednesday evening I went over to a friend's home for a visit. I hadn't seen Tzipporah for a few months...and she had started a little study group in her home with a "rebbetzin" wherein around 7-10 people sat around and discussed the parashat HaShavua with a learned woman. I didn't know what to expect...But I was thrilled when I looked at my watch and three hours had gone by in the blink of an eye...The Tanach never fails....never....A little bit of Habonim, a little bit of my old Chizuk Emunah in Baltimore, and of those classes at Hebrew College....and the [...]
6096 19 7_Kurland11_batya fromm18_fromm@inter.net.il31_Sat, 13 May 2000 07:36:58 +0300397_us-ascii Amnon, Shalom, Since we were not in the same classes together with Dr. Kurland, I can't dispute what you heard from him but the saying that I quoted has stuck in my mind all these years. I think it's applicable to many situtions, especially when it comes to us Jews. I'm sure my Chevre from the 1948 Institute would verify the correctness of this quotation. Shabbat Shalom, Menachem [...]
6116 61 51_Re: Adrabba, half full wine cups, and hatzi hallels0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sat, 13 May 2000 01:11:24 EDT618_US-ASCII
In a message dated 5/13/00 12:17:17 AM, HiamAmnon@aol.com writes:
<< It is possible to change the course of history. We did it in the fifty year period before we gained independence and are doing it (not nearly well enough) today. Mark, we did not deprive the Palestinians of their independence. Exploiting a historical set of circumstances we accepted the offer of the UN Assembly to partition Palestine. Their leaders turned down the offer certain, that they could take the entire country. We defeated them in a war. Their destruction can be remedied - By Them! We cannot, should not do [...]
6178 27 11_Re: Kurland11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sat, 13 May 2000 09:01:17 -0400546_us-ascii Is this the same Sam Kurland who eventually taught me at Gratz College in Philadelphia?
At 07:36 AM 5/13/2000 +0300, you wrote: >Amnon, Shalom, Since we were not in the same classes together with Dr. >Kurland, I can't dispute what you heard from him but the saying that I >quoted has stuck in my mind all these years. I think it's applicable to >many situtions, especially when it comes to us Jews. I'm sure my Chevre >from the 1948 Institute would verify the correctness of this quotation. >Shabbat Shalom, Menachem > > > > [...]
6206 70 61_Re: A Wednesday eve parasha and A Shabbat Shalom for Mark....11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sat, 13 May 2000 09:07:05 -0400592_us-ascii And Shabbat Shalom to you Sue and to all of Habonet.
I'm off to Philly to care of a couple of not so healthy parents.
I have much to think about in your very thoughtful piece and will endeavor to answer in the next week.
Bevirkat chaverim,
Mark
At 10:01 PM 5/12/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Wednesday evening I went over to a friend's home for a visit. I hadn't seen >Tzipporah for a few months...and she had started a little study group in her >home with a "rebbetzin" wherein around 7-10 people sat around and discussed >the parashat HaShavua with [...]
6277 24 52_Re: Red Letter Dates in the History of Who is a Jew?0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Sat, 13 May 2000 11:57:08 EDT536_US-ASCII Thanks, Marty, and belated Shabat Shalom to you! Robyn is off to a Brownie sleep-over, and Max is at shuel, so I steal this peaceful quiet time to read my e-mail and do other things that take concentration, that is hard to do in normal times. It will get more complicated, because Robyn's 13 year old sister Tina is coming to stay until school ends, then we'll see how it goes over the summer. She won't be like Rachel was at that age, but I'm not sure how I'll manage any teen ager..we shall see. I admire you ability to [...]
6302 22 16_moving to Boston12_Heather Drye26_heatherdrye@mindspring.com31_Fri, 12 May 2000 12:05:44 -0400302_us-ascii Hi All,
I've been down in the wasteland that is Raleigh, North Carolina for the past three years but we are finally getting out of here. We'll be moving to Boston where I we will find a much more exciting lifestyle. Is anyone familiar with the Jewish community in the Boston area? [...]
6325 17 51_Re: Adrabba, half full wine cups, and hatzi hallels0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sat, 13 May 2000 17:14:35 EDT291_US-ASCII "Take it easy, just take it," was a Woody Guthrie line; I am unfamiliar to its being used by the "democratic American labor movement." As a great fan of Woody's I am also aware of his flaws, one of which was to be aligned with the "undemocratic" portion of the labor movement. [...]
6343 39 14_Kumsitz Alert!0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 14 May 2000 05:40:55 EDT503_US-ASCII Dear Chevreh,
Based on last year's Kumsitz 1999 attendance of about 150, we have planned a fabulous program with over 100 songs we've generated for the kumsitz - both English and Hebrew; an on-the-spot makhela performance directed by Abba Caspi and Shlomo Cohen with all people attending performing with and for each other; a fabulous dance session led by Tamar Paradise Yablonski and Howie Goldman with a giant blackboard for dances on request; a pre-kumsitz catered dinner, etc.. [...]
6383 19 18_Re: Kumsitz Alert!0_14_LHIAM1@aol.com29_Sun, 14 May 2000 09:14:46 EDT455_US-ASCII Alyiah, Got your email about the kumzitz.... I assume I AM among the few whom you know IS coming. :) Do you still need a snail mail response? I promised you I would come "early" to help set up. What time do you want me where? Hiam
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6403 48 23_Re: HABONET digest 15330_17_HiamAmnon@aol.com29_Sun, 14 May 2000 09:58:03 EDT398_US-ASCII I'd like to pick up on a couple of threads In habonet of 5/13/00 Menachem, shalom, I don't doubt that "Doc" Kurland actually did say what you quote him as saying, it's only that he said other things, too. My brief acquaintances with him were in '45 or '46 in Chicago and at Mosh. I remember him as a mind-opening kind of lecturer with a flair for pungent expressions. So, no quarrel. [...]
6452 18 31_RE: Palestinian Day of Mourning0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 22:36:05 PST418_us-ascii kol hakoved Ephraim, I don't think one person in a million would have noticed that! pearl ------------------------------------- E-mail: skolnik@netvision.net.il Date: 04/01/80 Time: 10:36:05 PM
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6471 18 11_PBS Program11_Norman Kane19_normk@earthlink.net31_Sun, 14 May 2000 23:22:15 -0700440_us-ascii I just noticed that there is a program on PBS this week entitled "Israel's Forgotten Heroes" about the War of Independence. In L.A. it will air on Tuesday at 10:30 P.M. It might be worth checking it out.
Norm
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6490 15 52_Re: Red Letter Dates in the History of Who is a Jew?0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Mon, 15 May 2000 05:10:41 EDT337_US-ASCII I apologize for my mistake in directing the note to Marty to Habonet by accident - obviously not intended...judy
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6506 76 18_Re: Kumsitz Alert!12_nancy mimoun19_nmimoun@sunhill.com31_Mon, 15 May 2000 08:29:22 -04001003_iso-8859-1 Aliya - I'll be there - kumsitz only! Nancy Mimoun
P.S. Joyce Zinbarg will be with me.
----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 5:40 AM Subject: Kumsitz Alert! [...]
6583 48 17_Re: Camp Galil PR0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 15 May 2000 09:25:18 EDT405_US-ASCII Chevre, Boker tov!
Lynn asked me to pass this on to the Galil Camp Committee list.
Enjoy. Shlep a bissel nachis! I'm so happy that we're still giving our chanichim "the time of their lives".
Chaver Steve
PS We're getting copies of the tape of Arielle's Bat Mitzvah speech to show at Thursday's camp committee meeting. Bring your anti-kvel medicine, just in case. [...]
6632 20 40_Sam Flesher's Band on the Internet again0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Mon, 15 May 2000 10:51:41 EDT432_US-ASCII I just want to let you all know that my band will be featured on internet radio on the show Le Bon Bon Club.
it will be on Saturday May 20th from 11 to 12. Just go to the site. WBCQ.Com and they will tell you when Le Bon Bon club will be on and how to listen on the internet or on the short wave radio. Our new singer Lisa Hindmarsh will be featured and she will be interviewed by our old singer Karen Heilman. [...]
6653 41 4_fyi`0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 15 May 2000 13:20:46 EDT411_US-ASCII From: Ira Robinson/Dept. of Religion/Concordia U. Subject: Call for Speakers: Socialism and the Winnipeg Jewish Community
A Winnipeg symposium is planned for the fall of 2001 to review, analyze, discuss and celebrate that city's tradition of Jewish-Socialist activism. The symposium will place Jewish Winnipeg's experience in national and international context. [...]
6695 17 13_Tavor Reunion0_17_Geokat100@aol.com29_Mon, 15 May 2000 19:19:55 EDT349_US-ASCII What are the dates of the Tavor reunion? I know they've been posted here before, but I didn't save that e-mail.
Kathy
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6713 28 0_13_Elisa M. Lang14_emlang@bee.net31_Mon, 15 May 2000 20:59:16 -0400565_us-ascii Hello,
My name is Elisa Lang. I was in the 19th (I believe) Habonim Dror Workshop on Kibbutz Urim. About a year ago, I received the Foundation newsletter that talked of a reunion of my chevre. I attempted to contact Debbie Bolno at the email address with no response. The information I had was: Debbie Bolno Zinger c/o avizingr@netvision.net.il. I may have had the address wrong...and I'm sure the reunion has come and gone. Nonetheless, I would like to have an opportunity to be in touch with my old friends and I hope this may be the way in. [...]
6742 49 43_Re: 19th Habonim Dror Workshop/Kibbutz Urim13_Elisa M. Lang14_emlang@bee.net31_Mon, 15 May 2000 21:05:30 -0400349_us-ascii Hello,
Elisa again. My apologies for having sent an e-mail without a "subject" line. I know that some people don't pay attention to e-mails that don't include subject lines, so here's the e-mail again, with subject intact.
Also, I believe I was known back then as Lisa Lang, not Elisa, in case that is helpful to anyone. [...]
6792 15 17_Re: Tavor Reunion0_15_Hamsa97@aol.com29_Mon, 15 May 2000 22:57:38 EDT285_US-ASCII Tavor reunion dates are August 11th thru 13th. Miriam Derman
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6808 20 3_Re:0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Tue, 16 May 2000 01:48:21 EDT358_US-ASCII Elisa,
Where do you live? Are you interested in attending the Kumsitz in NYC on 3 June? If so, you're definitely invited. Or in finding chevreh? If interested in finding chevreh, contact Ezra Weinberg at the Foundation - foundation@habonimdror.org - meanwhile, many of your chevreh may possibly see these posts and respond to you, Aliya [...]
6829 306 10_Tavor 20000_15_Hamsa97@aol.com29_Tue, 16 May 2000 07:12:57 EDT248_US-ASCII By now Tavor Alumni should be receiving their reunion info in the mail. If you did not receive one, I have attached the forms to this email for you to print and send in. Hope to see you there! Miriam Ellis Derman and Arlene Michaels Miller
7136 240 13_tavor reunion0_15_Hamsa97@aol.com29_Tue, 16 May 2000 07:18:35 EDT52_US-ASCII I think I only attached one . Sorry. Miriam
7377 17 22_Looking for volunteers0_15_Hamsa97@aol.com29_Tue, 16 May 2000 07:47:30 EDT407_US-ASCII We are looking for volunteers to come up to Tavor the 2nd of June for a work weekend and to help out with some projects. If you are interested contact Miriam- Hamsa97@aol.com.Thanks!
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7395 37 23_Re: looking for chevreh13_Elisa M. Lang14_emlang@bee.net31_Tue, 16 May 2000 13:07:56 -0400677_us-ascii Thanks, Aliya, for your e-mail.
I live in Paoli, Pennsylvania, a suburb of Philadelphia. I'm not interested in attending the Kumsitz in NYC, but I appreciate the invitation. I'll keep Ezra Weinberg in mind, but the e-mail I sent may have done the trick...I've had a few responses already.
Regards, Elisa
>Elisa, > >Where do you live? Are you interested in attending the Kumsitz in NYC on 3 >June? If so, you're definitely invited. Or in finding chevreh? If interested >in finding chevreh, contact Ezra Weinberg at the Foundation - >foundation@habonimdror.org - meanwhile, many of your chevreh may possibly see [...]
7433 34 30_UNEMPLOYMENT STRIKES KIBBUTZIM0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 16 May 2000 15:57:59 EDT472_US-ASCII Vays mere. Can someone explain that's going on here? Who are these 16%?
Chaver Steve ---------------------------------------------
UNEMPLOYMENT STRIKES KIBBUTZIM
As a result of the privatization of many kibbutzim during the past decade, unemployment among kibbutz members is rising, HA'ARETZ reported. Sixteen percent (16%) of the nation's kibbutz members are either unemployed or hold jobs that are no longer needed by their kibbutzim. [...]
7468 57 34_Re: UNEMPLOYMENT STRIKES KIBBUTZIM5_tslil20_tslil_s@tzuba.org.il31_Tue, 16 May 2000 23:32:10 +0300589_iso-8859-1 Hi everyone, I'm new to this list, but can I take a stab at Steve's question?
My idea: at least 10% of that 16% are women between the ages of 45-60 or so, who spent the first 10 - 20 years of their lives taking care of children because that's what they were told to do. The unemployed ones or those who have too much intelligence and initiative to spend the next 20 years folding clothes or cleaning dining room tables, but not enough intelligence or initiative to develop a new career. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: [...]
7526 61 18_Kibbutz employment16_Elihu D. Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 17 May 2000 03:50:47 -0400641_us-ascii >From your favorite agent provocateur. The following piece appeared on Israeline, the internet news publication of Israel's New York consulate. Sturm und drang anyone?
> As a result of the privatization of many kibbutzim during the past decade, > unemployment among kibbutz members is rising, HA'ARETZ reported. Sixteen > percent of the nation's kibbutz members are either unemployed or hold jobs > that are no longer needed by their kibbutzim. > General Manager of the Employment Service Moshe Dimry said that "there is > a high rate of unemployment in the Kibbutzim, certainly no less than then > the national [...]
7588 97 22_Re: Kibbutz employment14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Wed, 17 May 2000 13:30:02 +0300420_ISO-8859-1 To comment on Elihu's posting about kibbutz unemployment..... anybody know of where I can find a job? I'm 50, made Aliya in '72, participated in two wars as a soldier and one as a Scud target, worked in a "collective" as electrician, diesel mechanic, truck driver, managed the baby house, work organiser, office manager of the garage/metal shop, s'gan econom (twice) and other sundry ocupations......... [...]
7686 174 25_Unemployment in Kibbutzim15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Wed, 17 May 2000 20:35:02 +0200352_iso-8859-8 Two recent postings dealt with this subject. "Haaretz" had an article on May 16, 2000 which gives the statistics below. They were prepared by the Ministry of Work and Income. The article itself is mainly anecdotal and I didn't think it's worth translating.
WORK FORCE IN THE KIBBUTZIM
Aspects of the Labor Force 1990 1998 [...]
7861 59 10_Vey is Mir0_17_HiamAmnon@aol.com29_Wed, 17 May 2000 13:39:17 EDT627_US-ASCII Subject: Re: UNEMPLOYMENT STRIKES KIBBUTZIM Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 23:32:10 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi everyone, I'm new to this list, but can I take a stab at Steve's question?
My idea: at least 10% of that 16% are women between the ages of 45-60 or so, who spent the first 10 - 20 years of their lives taking care of children because that's what they were told to do. The unemployed ones or those who have too much intelligence and initiative to spend the next 20 years folding clothes or cleaning dining room tables, [...]
7921 14 23_Re: HABONET digest 15360_16_HGavorin@aol.com29_Wed, 17 May 2000 16:13:39 EDT289_US-ASCII All we got was some gobbledegook - would love an invite - Harvey
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7936 14 23_Re: HABONET digest 15360_16_HGavorin@aol.com29_Wed, 17 May 2000 16:14:06 EDT275_US-ASCII Would love an invite to the Tavor reunion - Harvey
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7951 125 28_Re: Vey is Mir (sorry, long)5_tslil20_tslil_s@tzuba.org.il31_Wed, 17 May 2000 23:40:01 +0300508_iso-8859-1 First of all, to clear up the confusion, my name is Sharon, and I'm a woman, working in child care, 40+ years old. So yes, this discussion is close to home.
You say: >In conditions of democratic > capitalism there are many options open to them: they can become homeless, on > relief, beset by drugs and its attendant crime, drop outs from school > (children of the intelligent initiation driven haverim will in any case > leave them behind when they attend privatized "good" schools.) [...]
8077 37 11_Job in D.C.7_Barland19_abarland@execpc.com31_Wed, 17 May 2000 20:26:59 -0500615_us-ascii Found this one one of my "many " lists. Rozzie
To: Date: Tue, 16 May 2000 21:24:19 -0400 Reply-To: jewishteaching@egroups.com Subject: [Jewish Teaching] A part-time Hebrew/Judaic instructor is needed
Dear all, A part-time Hebrew/Judaic instructor is needed to teach a wonderful bunch of kids in a Montessori school that has just been extended from kindergarten through grade 4. The school is situated in Silver Spring, MD USA. Any interested parties please e-mail to irinak@bikinfo.com ASAP (time is of the essence). Thank you. Irina [...]
8115 42 19_Y Chromosome Update0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 18 May 2000 11:57:33 EDT471_US-ASCII WASHINGTON POST, 5/15/00 p.A9
<
Just like the Bible says, Jews, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese all do share a common genetic heritage that dates back thousands of years.
"Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," said Harry Ostrer of New York University School of Medicine, who helped conduct the new research published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. [...]
8158 16 23_Re: Y Chromosome Update0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 18 May 2000 12:33:08 EDT346_US-ASCII This whole biological thing, while fascinating, makes me very, very nervous. Doesn't it bother anyone else?
Debbie
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8175 16 23_Re: Y Chromosome Update0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 18 May 2000 12:45:57 EDT271_US-ASCII Debbie,
Why does this make you nervous?
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8192 35 31_Re: Palestinian Day of Mourning12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 12:48:39 -0500 (CDT)425_us-ascii The anniversary of the establishment of the State of Israel is seen by the Palestinians with whom we are supposedly making peace as a day of mourning. Our very existence is, for them, a tragedy. Why does anyone believe that treaties and agreements signed in the face of this attitude will lead to peace and mutual acceptance? I hope that such self-delusion is not a harbinger of a tragedy for the Jewish state. [...]
8228 183 37_Re: Our celebrations, their tragedies12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 12:54:28 -0500 (CDT)606_us-ascii Extrapolations should be permitted.
>Dov, > >Thank you once again for delivering a lecture in response to a posting that >was never written by me or anyone else. > >Can you show us where the words "smug certitude or insensitivity" appeared. > The string of postings follows your, so you won't even have to search your >in-box. > >Mark > >At 12:45 PM 5/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >>Mark, >> >>Setting aside a day to remember our dead and another day to remember our >>redemption does not show smug certitude or insensitivity to others. Our >>relatives and friends died. We mourn [...]
8412 74 19_Re: our celebration12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 13:01:19 -0500 (CDT)619_us-ascii A LARGE number of the settlements on the West Bank were established under governments run by the Labor party. (Ibelieve that more settlements were established under Rabin than under Natanyahu, but I can't put my hands on the reference.) This was in keeping with the policy established by Labor governemnts (of both israel and the Yishuv) of establishing permanent settlements in places that added to Israel's security. This policy with respect to the West Bank was undertaken after the Arabs (including the leadership of the PLO) made it clear after 1967 that it would not negotiate with Israel under any [...]
8487 77 18_Re: Smug Certitude12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 13:02:20 -0500 (CDT)561_us-ascii I quoted your words and you accused me of writing about things not said. I appreciate your apology and accept it. Dov
>Sharon, > >Thank you for pointing that out to me. In that context, and as one who had >such smug certitude at that age, I stand by my words and sentiments. > >My apologies to Dov for being smugly certain that he was not responding to >what I wrote. > >Shabbat Shalom. > >Mark > >7 PM 5/11/2000 -0400, you wrote: >>Mark - they *were* your words. Read the last paragraph. >>-Sharon >> >>> ---------- >>> From: Mark [...]
8565 122 61_Re: A Wednesday eve parasha and A Shabbat Shalom for Mark....12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 13:08:27 -0500 (CDT)528_us-ascii FYI from Dov.
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:50:00 -0600 From: "RHRMD1@swbell.net" Subject: HATING THE ISRAELIS AS JEWS To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-MSMail-priority: Normal
HATING THE ISRAELIS AS JEWS WHY TERRITORIAL SURRENDERS CAN NEVER BRING PEACE TO ISRAEL
30 January 2000 Louis Rene Beres Professor of International Law Department of Political Science Purdue University West Lafayette IN 47907 USA [...]
8688 77 50_Israel lets sex slave crimes go unpunished-Amnesty0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 18 May 2000 14:18:34 EDT535_US-ASCII
MAY 18 2000
JERUSALEM, May 18 (Reuters) - Israel does not protect the rights of women and girls who are brought from the former Soviet Union to work in Israel's sex industry, Amnesty International said on Thursday.
"The Israeli government has failed to take adequate measures to prevent, investigate, prosecute and punish human rights abuses committed against trafficked women," the London-based human rights group said in a report on the buying, selling and enslavement of women in Israel. [...]
8766 80 51_Re: Adrabba, half full wine cups, and hatzi hallels12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 13:59:38 -0500 (CDT)611_us-ascii I believe that the Palestinian "NO" is real. On what basis would we conclude otherwise? Because it's not rational? Because we are handing them independence on a silver platter? Because they would have more to lose than to gain by continuing the conflict with us?
Look at past history. All of the above have been true before--many times--and the answer was always a vociferous and violent "NO!" In the Arabic press Palestinian leadership has made it clear that their ultimate goal is still to destroy Israel. Any agreements they make with Isarael are simply an interim step in that process. [...]
8847 28 19_Re: our celebration0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 18 May 2000 15:44:25 EDT606_US-ASCII Dov
Clearly every one makes mistakes. If the Labor government helped establish these settlements they should bow their heads in shame and move on and do whatever they can to make sure that the thugs who consititute a substantial minorirty of the settlers do not constitute a threat to peace. Moreover, the the Likud government poured in tens of billions of dollars of the Jewish peoples moniens to build these setttlements. This by and large was extracted from the kibbutz movement. Now the the money should be taken back. Every bypasss road should be a toll road. The settlers should [...]
8876 48 23_Re: Y Chromosome Update12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 15:20:30 -0500 (CDT)644_us-ascii Jews with non-Jewish fathers?
>WASHINGTON POST, 5/15/00 p.A9 > >< >Just like the Bible says, Jews, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese all do >share a common genetic heritage that dates back thousands of years. > >"Jews and Arabs are all really children of Abraham," said Harry Ostrer of New >York University School of Medicine, who helped conduct the new research >published in the May 9 issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of >Sciences. > >The researchers analyzed the Y chromosome, which is usually passed unchanged >from father to son, of 1,371 men worldwide, including [...]
8925 53 19_Re: our celebration12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 18 May 2000 15:29:51 -0500 (CDT)437_us-ascii Sam,
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the Jewish settlements in the part of Eretz Yisrael that was liberated during the Six Day War. The settlements in Gaza are crucial to Israel's security. The unremitting hostility from that region has been a source of mortal danger to Israel since Israel was founded. The settlements there represent Israel's only means to maintain a military presence in that area. [...]
8979 33 3_m2k0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Thu, 18 May 2000 21:33:43 -0400579_us-ascii Mosh Reunion 2000 is just around the corner. I'd like to encourage all Mosh chevre to rsvp asap to Tammy and contact me about the adbook we're putting out. Here's a memory:
The Neshef is fast approaching and we sell ads to our parents and friends. The ads are typed or stylused onto wax ABDick stencils and loaded onto the hand-cranked mimeograph machine in the blue and later, white, Bayit. We collate and staple the pages together. Technology has enabled us to have a cover in pink, blue, green, or gold. We think the adbook looks wonderful and the talent [...]
9013 15 23_Re: Y Chromosome Update0_13_JLCAA@aol.com29_Thu, 18 May 2000 21:33:17 EDT284_US-ASCII Actually Dov, we could all be Jews with Arab fathers :) Avi
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9029 50 19_Re: our celebration0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 18 May 2000 23:52:54 EDT629_US-ASCII In a message dated 5/18/00 4:37:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DLiberman@UH.EDU writes:
So what if we disagree. At this point I doin't care. Your remarks will only increase my antipathy towards these setttlements. There is not a shred of evidence they do anything to enhance security. They are divisive. They are an obstacle to peace. And they keep large numbers of troops pinned down gaurding them. They are there not for security but because gush emunim and the likud came together in an idealotgical agreement to promote those settlements. While it is true that some may have been established under [...]
9080 16 7_Re: m2k0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 19 May 2000 03:44:45 EDT445_US-ASCII I still have all of the makhela pages from your MB which I stylused onto ABDick purple mimeographed pages. The problem is that they're so purplish and light they refuse to photocopy! Memories. . . . Shabbat shalom, Aliya
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9097 31 17_Another Virus FYI14_Robert pacbell20_robmagid@pacbell.net31_Fri, 19 May 2000 07:14:50 -0700589_us-ascii Hey guys just got this off my server at work , just to let you know Robert Magid
Date: Friday - May 19, 2000 6:54 AM Subject: Virus Alert - READ THIS FIRST
To All Associates, A new virus called VBS.NewLove.A is now in circulation. The VBS.NewLove.A is a worm, and spreads by sending itself to all addresses in the Outlook address book when it is activated. The attachment name is randomly chosen, but will always have a .Vbs extension. The subject header will begin with "FW: " and will include the name of the randomly chosen attachment (excluding the [...]
9129 66 19_Re: our celebration12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Fri, 19 May 2000 10:32:12 -0500 (CDT)411_us-ascii
Sam,
We can disagree about the best way to guarantee Israel's security. We can disagree about politics. But your saying that I don't care about the security of Israel is a slander. You owe me an apology. I believe that there is a connection between the vociferousness and maliciousness of your attascks on those who disagree with you and the validity (or lack of) of your position. [...]
9196 34 19_Re: our celebration0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Fri, 19 May 2000 18:14:23 EDT537_US-ASCII Dov
passions run high, yours your than anyone elses. You have been in attack mode since you got on habonet. Mostly I have chosen to ignore what you say. But with you in particular I feel no need to be indirect. Now let me say this. If I did not believe that you did not care about Israels security, I would not have said. I will say it as many times as you like. Those settlements were intendend to create politcal facts on the ground and are a clear and present danger to the peace process and Israel's security. I [...]
9231 438 9_Addresses15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Sat, 20 May 2000 07:11:53 +0200680_iso-8859-8 I maintain a database of former members of HDNA now living in Israel. I am want to update it and need the addresses (street addresses, not email) for the following:
L_NAME F_NAME
ASHKENAZI Abby
BERNSTEIN Dan
BENEDICT Ruth
COHEN Danya
EDELMAN
FINE Sandra
GINSBURG Amy
GLICK Jonathan
GLICK Nomi
GOLDFARB Brahm
GRANT Emma
KEDEM Galit
MARKS Anton
MALINA Rhonda
MIFEZ Hillel
NEUMAN Gaby
NITZAN David
OGNALL Adam
OLESKER David
ROSENHEAD James [...]
9670 14 23_Re: Y Chromosome Update12_Stan Goldman17_stan@inter.net.il31_Fri, 19 May 2000 11:35:08 +0200277_iso-8859-1 Could Debbie tell us what she is nervious about???
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9685 27 3_dov0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Sat, 20 May 2000 02:36:49 EDT419_US-ASCII I usually regret ever sending anything of a political nature to this place because someone jumps on me for not being sensitive; (I know I'm not sensitive; it is something I have carefully cultivated) but it occurs to me that anyone who refers to the occupied territories as Israeli land "liberated" in the six-day war and most of the other crap in your recent message is someone who is a Habonim failure. [...]
9713 153 13_Re: Addresses10_david baum23_rdbaum@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 20 May 2000 13:04:35 +0300420_Default Shalom Leo, 29may'00
BERNSTEIN Dan 113 Pinehurst Ave. Albany N,Y. 12203 USA Dave Baum
---------- From: Leo Diesendruck To: HABONET Subject: Addresses Date: 20 2000 08:11
I maintain a database of former members of HDNA now living in Israel. I am want to update it and need the addresses (street addresses, not email) for the following: [...]
9867 47 45_Plead to Habonet participants who hit "reply"11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Sat, 20 May 2000 08:25:48 -0400587_us-ascii Dear Chevre, esp Dov-
I get Habonet as a daily digest, which is esp helpful because I can read a whole discussion in one sitting. However, when people hit "reply" without deleting the text to which they are replying, the digest can run into pages and pages of repeated text. One recent digest was 20 pages long even though there were only 5-6 relatively short messages. Going through the whole mess to find the entries took forever. When this happens day after day, which sometimes happens esp in a heated discussion, finding the time to read Habonet at all becomes [...]
9915 17 13_Re: Addresses0_18_Yentateleb@aol.com29_Sat, 20 May 2000 09:06:55 EDT382_US-ASCII Aimee Ginsburg is now living in India. The best way to contact her is through her parents - Ellen and Bernie Ginsburg 5839 Farralone Woodland Hills, CA 91367
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9933 29 33_Now that you've had your chuckles0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Sat, 20 May 2000 14:59:48 EDT431_US-ASCII In a message dated 5/13/00 12:17:17 AM, nevets2@aol.com writes
"Can Abba Eban's dictum that "the Palestinians never miss a chance to shoot themselves in the foot" hold sway even now?" ----------------------------------------------------------- OK chevre,
Even as I wrote that I knew that I didn't quite get it 100%. Much too cliche'd for such a classic manipulator of the English language as Abba Eban. [...]
9963 22 23_Re: Y Chromosome Update0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Sat, 20 May 2000 21:20:29 EDT521_US-ASCII In a message dated 5/19/00 11:32:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, stan@inter.net.il writes:
> Could Debbie tell us what she is nervious about???
Debbie doesn't respond when she is referred to in the third person. You'll have to ask someone else, I guess....think about it.
Debbie
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9986 45 19_Re: our celebration13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Sun, 21 May 2000 15:47:59 -0700382_US-ASCII Sam and Dov I have followed this kafkaesque discussion of yours. It is kafkaesque because you are there -- not here. Don't get me wrong. You have every right to be so involved. It is preferable to your not being emotionally involved. However, it is somewhat limbo-land. I love you all and I wish you were here. Michael Livni aka Max Langer in my previous incarnation. [...]
10032 24 19_Re: our celebration0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 21 May 2000 13:07:42 EDT579_US-ASCII Dear Max-Michael- It was a delight o see your name and read your comments. One of the earliest "debates" on this venue I experienced was the one involving the "rights" of us in the Galut to critique the current situations in Israel. Correct- we are not there. Correct-- we have an emotional umbilical chord still attached wherein we feel very emotional about what is going on across the Earth. Too bad you missed our tete-a-tetes about the demise of the kibbutz system. I see you are still living on one. What is the philosphy of "privatization" where you are, and [...]
10057 44 19_Re: our celebration12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 22 May 2000 11:16:21 -0500 (CDT)547_us-ascii Sam,
I concur. We will get out of Hevron and stay in the Jordan Valley and the Golan. Looks like We have reached an agreement. From your mouth to Barak's ear.
Dov
>Dov > >passions run high, yours your than anyone elses. You have been in attack mode >since you got on habonet. Mostly I have chosen to ignore what you say. But >with you in particular I feel no need to be indirect. Now let me say this. If >I did not believe that you did not care about Israels security, I would not >have said. I will say [...]
10102 63 15_The "new" Kotel0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 22 May 2000 14:38:15 EDT340_US-ASCII Here you have it Chevre!
Say goodbye to the section of the Kotel where we've been davening lately and get ready for "the new Kotel". Liberal Jews, egalitarian Jews move 100 yards to the.......right (!) please. Under Robinson's Arch. That's our new Kotel!
100 years from now, the "old" Kotel will be a curiosity. [...]
10166 70 23_More on the "New Kotel"0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 22 May 2000 14:44:04 EDT389_US-ASCII But why, I ask, does this have to come right in the middle of the crisis in the Peace Process?? Well...I guess the answer is, "Why not?"
Chaver Steve ==================================================
THE ZIONIST UPDATE (Right wing Email newsletter) May 22, 2000 Editor: Salomon L. Vaz Dias
3 SHARP REACTIONS AGAINST COURT DECISION ON WESTERN WALL WOMEN [...]
10237 17 19_Re: our celebration0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Mon, 22 May 2000 15:08:50 EDT299_US-ASCII I never said that. I just said that you could make a security case for the Golan and the Jordan valley. I did not say that I agree with that case. I just said that a reasonable person could make that case. No reasonable person can make a case for any of the rest of these settlements. [...]
10255 14 19_Re: our celebration0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 22 May 2000 16:07:23 EDT335_US-ASCII "reasonable person" is a very subjective term..To the people living in the West Bank settlements, YOU would be considered "unreasonable".....It seems to me that is is very easy and nice of you to be judgemental when you are living in Pittsburgh without the bombs falling all around you...See Max's previous comments..sue [...]
10270 19 8_LA radio0_12_SHX2@aol.com29_Mon, 22 May 2000 22:16:28 EDT416_US-ASCII Dear Habonet folks,
I want to let any chevre in the LA area know that I am being interviewed on KLON-FM, 88.1 this Thursday at 11:00 am on Helen Borgers jazz show.
Steve Hancoff
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10290 41 19_Re: our celebration13_Michael Livni21_ml-lotan@zahav.net.il31_Tue, 23 May 2000 22:21:37 -0700323_US-ASCII Shalom Sue Great to hear from you. Re the kibbutz and where I am at--send me your address and I will send you material by"snail mail" In any case, Kibbutz Lotan is one of the 21 kibbutzim in the "zerem shitufi" ("collective stream" -- no privatization. We still believe "Sachki sachki al Chalomot..." Michael [...]
10332 73 19_Re: The "new" Kotel0_17_HiamAmnon@aol.com29_Tue, 23 May 2000 22:23:59 EDT590_US-ASCII Motzaei shabbat, Rivka and Hiam and I went to Philadelphia to meet with the hevreh of Ruah Galil. The impresario was the indefatigable man who calls himself Haver Steve. I have seldom seen such optimism and energy combined in one dynamo. Billed as the interface between Israel and Habonim, (somebody suggested that we should drop our Dror's but that's an event with other agendas - and probably best pursued in less public venues,) I didn't have a firm "lesson-plan" in hand. I hoped that it would follow the procedure and the ambiance of the old-time sicha, and it did. Many [...]
10406 17 19_Re: our celebration0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Wed, 24 May 2000 15:57:02 EDT351_US-ASCII perhaps my last message was a little harsh. best to you and yours...and may wisdom bless your path wherever you go.
Sam
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10424 347 28_Preliminary Kumsitz Set List0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Thu, 25 May 2000 03:39:35 EDT601_ISO-8859-1 Chevreh near and far,
This is the preliminary set list for the upcoming Kumsitz on 3 June. It's not too late to email that you're coming and have sent reservations in to the National Office. I'll post the application one more time after the set list:
Kumzitz Set list:
Draft Dodger Rag National Brotherhood Week Be Prepared Bottle of Wine Banks of Marble Power and Glory Union Maid Red Fly the Banner High Solidarity forever The Krechma This Land is your land All Very Distant all very Far The MTA San Francisco Blues Cant Help But Wonder where Im bound [...]
10772 19 32_Re: Preliminary Kumsitz Set List0_18_Green88888@aol.com29_Thu, 25 May 2000 20:42:04 EDT343_US-ASCII Dear Kumsitz Committee, I think I mailed Aliya privately on this one a few weeks ago. Any thought given to marching in the Yom Atzmaot Parade on the Sunday after the kumsitz or is it too late to sign up? I know things have changed in the last few years regarding who can march, but I thought it might be fun! See you soon, Donna [...]
10792 51 35_International double play potential0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Fri, 26 May 2000 20:22:28 EDT484_US-ASCII Chevre, Shabat Shalom!
Received the request below from Sylvia Lewis, Immediate past President of Naamat USA. Seems to me a most propitious time to comply with her request. The climate for pressuring Syria into a peace deal with Israel has improved vastly since Israel withdrew from Lebanon this week. In addition, by bringing into focus the Eli Cohen case, we also bring attention to what might happen to our 13 Iranian cousins now standing in Eli Cohen's shoes. [...]
10844 41 24_Set List- some new words0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Sat, 27 May 2000 02:59:30 EDT336_US-ASCII this is the last song of the evening in my house:
Sometimes he wears a dog collar, Sometimes he wears a dog leash. And all the kids hoot and holler, When you say he's a son-of-a-beetch.
Pooh Bear, goodnight Pooh Bear, goodnight Sleep well, my boy, with your bone-shaped fleece toy I'll see you in my dreams. [...]
10886 80 17_New Email Address17_Martin J. Goodman25_mgoodman@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 27 May 2000 14:30:59 +0200378_windows-1255 27 May 2000
Shalom Chevreh:
I am moving to the following new email address: mgoodman@012.net.il
Please update your email lists.
I would like to begin receiving the Habonet Digest at my new email address (and to stop receiving it at my former email address). Could someone tell me how this can be accomplished?
Martin Goodman [...]
10967 21 11_Nomi Kahane12_Adele Perlov20_adele-p@inter.net.il31_Tue, 30 May 2000 00:27:23 +0300391_us-ascii shalom, chevre.
Nomi Kahane died early monday evening at kibbutz urim. Funeral is at urim at 5:30 tuesday afternoon.
yehi zichra baruch.
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10989 49 25_More on the Kotel Changes0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 29 May 2000 18:34:48 EDT625_US-ASCII
In a message dated 5/29/00 7:42:56 AM, raisrael@JTSA.EDU writes:
<< A long way (a letter from Monday's Ha'Aretz)
The Masorti (Conservative) movement and the government reached an agreement this week concerning the Western Wall. The government has agreed to designate a section of the Western Wall as a place where the Conservative movement can conduct prayer services according to its customs and practices. Although overshadowed by the court's decision concerning the Women at The Wall, and therefore hardly mentioned by the media, the agreement reached this week is of major importance. [...]
11039 82 24_Re: Changes at the kotel12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 30 May 2000 09:17:33 +0200598_iso-8859-1 Steve, I'm disturbed at the lengths to which disenfranchised spiritually committed Jews will go in order to play with the 'big guys'. You quote, >The government has agreed to >designate a section of the Western Wall as a place where the Conservative >movement can conduct prayer services according to its customs and >practices.... >The place designated is not near the Wall but part of the Wall. > Well, this is truly a harbinger of the full redemption we've yearned for. The footsteps of the Messiah are now heard in the land. We can pray right next to the idolatrous worshippers [...]
11122 22 24_RE: Changes at the kotel12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG31_Tue, 30 May 2000 08:04:48 -0400405_- Amnon- I'm confused. At the Ruach Galil sicha, you bemoaned the fact that Americans weren't doing more to encourage true democracy in Israel. But when Steve brings to our attention a series of articles showing a trend toward such democracy, you call him 'tragic'. You're focusing too much on the subject (a religion-based Jewish landmark) and not enough on the process (more equal access). -Sharon [...]
11145 229 18_FW: FORWARD : News12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG31_Tue, 30 May 2000 08:08:35 -0400114_- New York voters may find this interesting...
> <> > http://www.forward.com/CURRENT/news.html >
11375 243 17_refugees question13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Tue, 30 May 2000 10:21:15 -0400479_iso-8859-1 Whoever wants to begin to understand the last and perhaps most difficult problem of a final status agreement with the Palestinians, the problem of the Palestinian refugees left in Lebanon, ought to read Deborah Sontag's piece of research into the problem published today in the New York Times. I have reproduced just the text below, in simple text format, but whoever can should go and look at the pictures and maps that accompany the piece at the following URL: [...]
11619 35 7_Re: dov12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 30 May 2000 13:26:49 -0500 (CDT)610_us-ascii Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as possible. We must have belonged to 2 different movements.
Dov
>I usually regret ever sending anything of a political nature to this place >because someone jumps on me for not being sensitive; (I know I'm not >sensitive; it is something I have carefully cultivated) but it occurs to me >that anyone who refers to the occupied territories as Israeli land >"liberated" in the six-day war and most of the other crap in your recent >message is someone who is a Habonim failure. > >Maybe the concept of social justice [...]
11655 30 7_Re: dov12_Stopak, Noam26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 30 May 2000 14:37:36 -0400396_us-ascii
Dov Liberman wrote:
> Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as possible. We > must have belonged to 2 different movements. > > Dov
I distinctly recall a major discussion at the Veida circa 1980 where the merger with Dror was approved about concerns that Dror supported settlement over the "green line" while Ichud Habonim did not. [...]
11686 18 7_Re: dov0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Tue, 30 May 2000 14:49:44 EDT434_US-ASCII Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as possible.
Dov, I guess I wasn't in the same movement as you were, either. As I recall it, Zionism was about supporting Israel, and aliya was about settling there. The definition of what geographical boundaries "eretz yisrael" consisted of was a matter of debate, and I do not recall ever, ever hearing that we should settle as much of it as possible. [...]
11705 28 15_RE: Nomi Kahane0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 21:30:29 PST524_us-ascii Dear Adele, shalom, Sorry to write you at a time of evel, but is this the Nomi I knew from Philadelphia? I can't remember a maiden name. All I remember is Nomi, who was a chavera of Urim, and was in my garein. What do you do up North? Last time I saw you I think you were working in British Olim Society! How do you like Carmiel? My sister Rachele and her family lived there for many years, and aside from the long trip to the Technion where my brother'in-law Shmuel teaches, they loved the city. I think that [...]
11734 21 7_RE: dov0_21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Tue, 30 May 2000 22:55:41 -0400511_iso-8859-1 > Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as > possible.
...but even if we accept that definition of Zionism, Dov, then what defined the differences between all the Zionist movements was each one's understanding of what was 'possible'.
--brian
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11756 21 29_RE: More on the Kotel Changes0_21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Tue, 30 May 2000 22:55:42 -0400515_iso-8859-1 > The government has agreed to designate a section of > the Western Wall as a place where the Conservative movement > can conduct prayer services according to its customs ...
I'm still hoping to one day play tennis across the mechitza at the wall. Anyone for a game?
--brian
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11778 20 7_Re: dov11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Tue, 30 May 2000 20:53:00 -0700463_us-ascii Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as > possible.
I think it is safe to say that most of us in the movement in the late '60s and early '70s, would not have been so if this were a true statement.
Batel
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11799 39 18_Fwd: Dov's zionism0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 30 May 2000 23:57:15 EDT17_US-ASCII
11839 60 27_Will Gilboa go down, again?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Tue, 30 May 2000 21:41:40 -0700517_us-ascii As summer approaches (this will be my third or fourth on Habonet, that would make me a choteret, I believe), I'm finding the need to introduce Machane as a new subject of discussion.
I am a parent of a second-summer chanicha at Gilboa, and am finding myself at an unbelievable level of frustration. Though I am relatively new to the machane thing, I am finding the situation with Gilboa to be problematic at best, and am very concerned that what's going on is a sad reflection of things to come. [...]
11900 34 21_Last Kumsitz Reminder0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 02:57:32 EDT445_US-ASCII Last minute kumsitz signer-uppers can show up at the door, but:
If there is anyone who's planning to come to the DINNER before the kumsitz and hasn't reserved, you must call email me at the address above by Wednesday afternoon and put Kumsitz Dinner Reservation in the header. I will log onto my email at the office (I don't usually read it until the evening ) at 5 PM just before I call in the dinner count to the caterer. [...]
11935 33 20_Changes at the kotel12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 31 May 2000 11:07:01 +0200602_us-ascii Sharon, You cite activities focused on gaining separate but equal access to the outer supporting wall of an anachronism as a good thing, >doing more to encourage true democracy in Israel>. A major problem of Israeli democracy is not to ensure freedom of religion in Israel but to ensure freedom from it, assigning religion to its rightful place. The place of religion in an enlightened democracy is in the realm of the individual or of groups of individual who regard themselves as co-religionists. There is no place in a modern liberal state for yoking the state to a clerical monopoly. [...]
11969 39 31_Re: Will Gilboa go down, again?0_15_Moshava@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 07:52:17 EDT587_US-ASCII A couple of thoughts about the Gilboa situation-
First of all, I think every parent/alum needs to be involved with both machane and the ken. The kids are so distracted my life and Israel/Habonim just isn't as much as priority in their lives. Building up a new camp in totally over whelming. Especially since GIlboa still needs to become a driving force in the Jewish community and make a name for itself. Every family needs to become an emissary from Gilboa-to push it on every friend and hebrew school companion. We can't leave building Gilboa to the few, its just [...]
12009 43 3_Dov12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 31 May 2000 16:00:20 +0200615_us-ascii Dov, You wrote: "Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as possible. We must have belonged to 2 different movements." I've been following your postings with more than a little bemusement over their content, frequency and 'in your face' off-putting stance, so I've reacted by not reacting. You may have noticed that others have reacted and their reactions cover a range from disbelief to apoplexy. No, on second thought you can't have missed noting what your words and sarcasm, both, elicited in haverim and haverot. Since I assume that you can't have overlooked the tenor of their [...]
12053 48 23_Re: HABONET digest 15490_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 09:07:26 EDT580_US-ASCII
In a message dated 5/31/00 12:13:04 AM, habonet@shamash.org writes:
<< I'm disturbed at the lengths to which disenfranchised spiritually committed Jews will go in order to play with the 'big guys'. >>
Amnon, shalom!
Who are the "'big guys" you speak of?
All I know is that I would get a real big kick out of being able to daven at the Kotel "according to my custom". I mean just the thought of a typical Friday night BJ service being held at the Kotel with maybe "only" 500 people instead of the normal 1500, gives me goosebumps. [...]
12102 21 7_Re: Dov0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 09:34:39 EDT287_US-ASCII Thank you thank thank you thank you Amnon for saying the obvious about Dov and his distortions. Sometimes the obvious is the hardest thing in the world to say. You said it better than I could have but you sure speak for me. I have kind of a warm buzz. Toda raba raba raba. [...]
12124 27 7_Re: dov20_Zachary J Braiterman24_zbraiter@mailbox.syr.edu37_Wed, 31 May 2000 09:48:21 -0400 (EDT)510_US-ASCII
On Tue, 30 May 2000, Dov Liberman wrote:
> Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as possible. We > must have belonged to 2 different movements.
Not true. [1] The Yishuv adopted a policy of territorial compromise going back to the Peel Partition plan in the 1930s and then again the UN Partition Plan in 1947. [2] "As much as possible" is a relative term. The Revisionists thought more was possible, the Labor Zionists thought less was possible. [...]
12152 42 24_RE: Changes at the kotel12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG31_Wed, 31 May 2000 12:47:44 -0400519_- outer supporting wall of an anachronism as a good thing> Anachronistic as it may be, the wall is a significant piece of history, not just a religious site. I didn't object to the requirement that I cover my bare arms so as not to offend anyone when I visited the wall. But to be told that I may not worship there in a way I find appropriate, is not acceptable to me. I see the wall both as an historical site and as a synagogue. I would [...]
12195 20 24_Re: Changes at the kotel0_16_BERNSARA@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 13:14:26 EDT541_US-ASCII I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE, SHARON. However, the problem seems to lie with the fact that Barak is hog-tied because of the needed votes and support from Shas. When this problem is eliminated, we may have a chance of being accepted as Jews, though we do not follow the dictates of the ultra orthodox. And not only us, but the whole state of Israel. I have been reading a great deal about the stranglehold that the Shas and other orthodox parties have on the present government, and I do not see a solution coming soon. Sorry [...]
12216 55 7_Re: dov12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Wed, 31 May 2000 12:42:33 -0500 (CDT)329_us-ascii I was in Habonim in 1967. We rejoiced when Israel triumphed in the 6 Day War. We were ecstatic at the reunification of Jerusalem and at Moshe Dayan's vow never to leave it again. The taking of more of eretz Yisrael by the Jewish people was an ocassion for great joy. Zionism was about Hityahvut--settling the land. [...]
12272 37 22_Re: Fwd: Dov's zionism12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Wed, 31 May 2000 12:53:08 -0500 (CDT)367_us-ascii My good friend, Aliya, has warned me again about posting too many messages. I am trying to heed her advice, but I'll risk posting 2 today. Zionism was NOT only about finding a safe place for Jews to live. When Uganda was offered as a Jewish homeland to the Zionist convention in 1904, the offer was vociferously rejected. Zionism is about Eretz Yisrael [...]
12310 23 17_Re: Dov's zionism0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 13:57:58 EDT505_US-ASCII In a message dated 5/31/00 1:53:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DLiberman@UH.EDU writes:
<< My good friend, Aliya, has warned me again about posting too many messages. >>
Dov,
If you read ALL your mail first, you can condense ALL your responses into one message.
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12334 50 7_Re: Dov12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Wed, 31 May 2000 13:16:20 -0500 (CDT)645_us-ascii sorry for disagreeing with the majority of posters Dov
>Dov, >You wrote: "Zionism was always about settling as much of eretz Yisrael as >possible. We >must have belonged to 2 different movements." I've been following your >postings with more than a little bemusement over their content, frequency >and 'in your face' off-putting stance, so I've reacted by not reacting. >You may have noticed that others have reacted and their reactions cover a >range from disbelief to apoplexy. No, on second thought you can't have >missed noting what your words and sarcasm, both, elicited in haverim and >haverot. Since I assume [...]
12385 28 7_Re: dov0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 15:12:53 EDT481_US-ASCII In a message dated 5/31/2000 10:43:54 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DLiberman@UH.EDU writes:
<< Perhaps Habonim's philosophy changed somewhere along the way. But the Habonim I was in was pro-settlement, pro-defense, and pro-Jewish rights in Palestine. >>
Dov,
What can I say except that perhaps you were living in a parallel habonim universe...unkown to the rest of us. No evidence to the contrary seems to ever penetrate your belief system. [...]
12414 120 8_FYI Peru0_13_JLCAA@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 15:16:46 EDT721_US-ASCII I thought you might find the following of interest since the elections in Peru has been in the news lately. Avi ******** *********** ************* *************** *********** INTERNATIONAL CONFEDERATION OF FREE TRADE UNIONS (ICFTU)
ICFTU OnLine 111/000531/DD
Peru: new ICFTU report out today shows extent of Fujimori's quasi-dictatorial powers
Brussels May 31 2000 (ICFTU OnLine): A new ICFTU report on Peru's respect for workers' human rights, out today, shows how ever since President Fujimori's suspension of the Constitution and assumption of emergency powers in 1992, trade unions have been systematically attacked and victimised. "There is no doubt," said ICFTU General Secretary [...]
12535 30 15_answer to Yuval0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 22:42:11 PST613_US-ASCII Your prejudices are showing. You write the "religious settlements of Pisgat Ze'ev and Ma'aleh Adumim." Both cities (not settlements by any stretch of the imagination) are secular. The overwhelming majority of inhabitants in both are non-religious people. Tens of thousands of purely secular Israelis living over the green line, on land conquered in a defensive war. And much of the land was owned by the Keren Kayemet since the 1920's in the Pisgat Ze'ev and Neveh Ya'akov area. You obviously do not live in Israel or you would have a better knowledge of what is happening here instead of depending [...]
12566 25 31_Re: Will Gilboa go down, again?0_14_Ohanka@aol.com29_Wed, 31 May 2000 18:21:40 EDT576_US-ASCII I don't know if this would make a difference, but I would be in favor of allowing Gilboa to disregard scale next summer (if they have money to invest). This might encourage a few excellent madrichim from other parts of the country to spend their summer there and help build up the program. In terms of recruiting, I would focus on one or two smaller geographical areas and really make yourselves known. One thing that worked for us at Galil was realizing that word-of-mouth and referrals were the best way of getting campers. And they come from everyone in some [...]
12592 47 25_disagreeing with the list12_Stopak, Noam26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com36_Wed, 31 May 100 19:26:32 -0400 (EDT)329_US-ASCII > > sorry for disagreeing with the majority of posters > Dov
Dov,
The issue (at least for me) is not whether we disagree on matters of opinion - I welcome diverse opinions here.
My problem with your postings have to do with disagreements about facts and when you distort what others have said. [...]
12640 28 7_Re: dov11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Wed, 31 May 2000 19:59:48 -0700356_us-ascii "The taking of more of eretz Yisrael by the Jewish people was an occasion for great joy"
I beg to differ. It was not taking more of Yisrael that was the reason for this joy. I lived through that war, and though we did rejoice in the reunification of Jerusalem, our joy was to have as many of our fathers and sons back alive as we did. [...]
12669 42 31_Re: Will Gilboa go down, again?11_Batel Libes25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Wed, 31 May 2000 20:07:41 -0700565_us-ascii Gilboa offers a 10% discount for referrals, with a chanichim having the potential of attending for free if enough referrals were there. Still, only 50 chanichim signed up at this point.
Gilboa needs formal help and I would think Habonim Dror should be there to offer it. Part of the registration fee is a mas in the sum of $65. Since this goes to THE movement, shouldn't the movement also be there to help out in this time of need? And, please note, the need is not always money. We need help in organizing, getting madrichim and other issues. [...]
12712 64 15_RE: Nomi Kahane12_Adele Perlov20_adele-p@inter.net.il31_Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:08:35 +0300577_us-ascii hi pearl; nice to hear from you.
nomi kahane was the madricha of various workshops at urim; altho i was never on a workshop, i met and became very close with nomi and her late husband chaim, almost immediately upon my arrival when i was a student here in '66-'67. (chaim died at 66 almost 3 years ago.) nomi was a very modest woman who believed in the kibbutz, and who made tremendous contributions to urim (vaadat chevra, mazkirut, etc., - all done quietly but effectively). and also makhela and head cook for many years. she influenced scores and scores [...]