1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet March 2000
2 47 41_Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.11_Bruce Arbit17_barbit@abdata.com31_Tue, 29 Feb 2000 23:40:44 -0600374_us-ascii Boys, boys, boys. You guys play rough.<br><br>First of all Alan never busted a union. IMI never had a union and its employees voted in a democratic election to not have a union. Sam uses non-union musicians in his performances. I do not remember any union bug on his recordings either. Must use non-union recording studio and reproduction facilities. So what? [...]
50 19 9_RE: worms0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 22:47:28 PST460_US-ASCII how can we tell if we have a worm? I do not recall fixing anything in my computer, so that worm would still be in here. Help! pearl ------------------------------------- E-mail: skolnik@netvision.net.il Date: 04/01/80 Time: 10:47:29 PM<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
70 25 9_Re: worms0_17_Geokat100@aol.com28_Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:37:08 EST558_US-ASCII Pearl,<br><br>You'd probably have heard from disgruntled friends if you had a worm infestation. A worm replicates by sending out copies of itself through your online mailbox. Check your mail log to see if there are any unauthorized emails sent from your account. But it's a good idea to keep your anti-virus software updated, as a denial of service attack tool (the sort responsible for the major attacks in the US earlier this month) has been found on some Windows PCs; machines connected to the Internet via cable or DSL are most vulnerable. [...]
96 25 45_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Wed, 1 Mar 2000 08:37:32 EST580_US-ASCII Kol HaKavod Bruce! Thank you for saying what I have been feeling for a long time about unions....I actually started in the film biz because of the flight of production out of LA to right-to-work states (I was living in Texas). At first I felt guilty- but it was work....And after having learned what the Teamsters, IATSE, the DGA and SAG had done to raise the costs of production, I didn't feel one bit of guilt.....But the worst experience was when they came to organize a mini-series and refused to talk to those of us who had no representation....The interesting [...]
122 121 45_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Wed, 1 Mar 2000 12:01:14 EST437_US-ASCII In a message dated 00-03-01 00:42:33 EST, you write:<br><br><< Boys, boys, boys. You guys play rough.<br><br>First of all Alan never busted a union. IMI never had a union and its employees voted in a democratic election to not have a union. Sam uses non-union musicians in his performances. I do not remember any union bug on his recordings either. Must use non-union recording studio and reproduction facilities. So what? [...]
244 135 45_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Wed, 01 Mar 2000 12:39:36 -0600 (CST)372_us-ascii Sam,<br><br><br><br>You seem to have hit on an issue on which all who have commented are in agreement--health care for all in the USA. You also suggested that we get together to do something about this. Count me in. Do you, or anybody else, have any practical suggestions about what we can do? This would be an effort of which bogrei Habonim could be proud. [...]
380 35 45_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Wed, 1 Mar 2000 14:37:53 -0500597_- > <Once upon a time before the triangle shirt factory fire > there was a critical need for unions. Times have > changed. Many unions today are greatly about > providing jobs for the barnacles that work in the unions.> > Well said - thank you. > -------------------------------------------------- > > <Sam made previous comments about health insurance. The most afflicted > are the working poor whose employers do not provide health care insurance > access.> > I agree again. Also, in Sam's reference, he suggested the US would do > well to emulate Canada's health care system. I think that [...]
416 82 45_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Wed, 1 Mar 2000 15:14:35 EST387_US-ASCII Dov thanks for the question. Here are some tips.<br><br>1. The two experts in congress on health care are Senator Wellstone from Minnasota and Congressman McDermot from Seatle. Both are Democrats and congressman McDermott is a Psychiatrist. The keep submitting bills on health care. At one point the Welstone McDermott bill had 90 co sponsors in the house...all Democrats. [...]
499 73 68_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea. and death in the burgh0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Wed, 1 Mar 2000 23:36:54 EST379_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/1/00 2:38:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, FineS@MLHS.ORG writes:<br><br><< > I agree again. Also, in Sam's reference, he suggested the US would do > well to emulate Canada's health care system. I think that would represent > a significant decline in US health care. People in Canada who can afford > it often come to the US for their health care. [...]
573 83 68_RE: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea. and death in the burgh9_Martin S.15_emskol@wans.net30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:12:48 -0500592_iso-8859-1 Okay, I'm going to shoot my mouth off here...probably more of an emotional outburst, but I hope it'll make the point that the healthcare system in America is not in the best interest of health or personal welfare...<br><br>As someone with a terminal illness and of the "working poor," I'll attest that healthcare in America is atrocious. I have private health insurance (not an HMO) with a fair 20% copay, and still, my disease has bankrupted me. See, insurance companies have many (legal) ways not to cover essential treatments. The only way for me to be fully covered is to [...]
657 70 15_Re: Health Care0_16_Aborciah@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 01:47:40 EST574_US-ASCII Thank you, Sam, for your well-informed comments about the problems with our health care system. My husband and I have been involved, to varying degrees over a number of years, in efforts toward health care reform. We started with Health Access when it had more of a presence in L.A. (its California base is San Francisco...as is California Neighbor-to-Neighbor), then moved on to the Proposition 186 campaign (an effort towards adoption of a single-payer plan as proposed in the Wellstone-McDermott bill) and the resulting creation of Health Care for All-L.A. [...]
728 26 21_to sharon and allyson0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:38:12 EST415_US-ASCII One final comment to Sharon.<br><br>If you want to know more about health care in PA the person who is the state wide expert is Allyson Schwartz. She is a state senator from Mt Airy and reconginized widely as Pennsylvania's McDermott. She is by trade a social worker and by friendly co incidence she is running for the US senate so it is really easy to check out her web page at www.schwartz2000.com. [...]
755 92 69_RE: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea. and death in the bu rgh12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 10:58:27 -0500560_iso-8859-1 <br><br>> < And there are millions of Americans who both those who > can and cannot afford it who cross into Canada to get health care.> > I've personally never heard of anyone who can afford US healthcare going > to Canada instead, but I'll take your word that it happens. > > <Along the Canadian border, americns fill their > persricptions in Canada because the drugs are reasonably priced.> > That's a huge problem in health care here. Drug companies freely admit > that they charge more in the US for the same drugs that they sell for less [...]
848 36 69_RE: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea. and death in the bu rgh12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:13:31 -0500574_- <Ever wonder in a hospital why you have to sign a waiver saying the doctors > aren't responsible? Doesn't say much for their faith in their own > abilities! > Guess they are still "practicing." I don't know any business person who > could get away with that and stay in business long....> > I've never seen a waiver that says the doctor isn't responsible. Informed consent is about making sure the patient knows what the possible repercussions are of both action and inaction. This is an example of good medicine (as opposed to paternalistic care: I know what's best [...]
885 30 15_RE: Health Care12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 11:29:41 -0500563_- Thank you , Anita - well put (and I even agree with most of what you said - a nice plus for me). I especially appreciate the name 'Rescue Health Care Day'; rescue rather than destroy and start over. Unfortunately, too many doctors do put their bottom line above good patient care. This is what gave the insurance companies the ammo to put themselves in the position to decree what care is or is not appropriate. However, the insurance companies care ONLY about the bottom line, which makes them much worse for this position than the doctors were! A single [...]
916 22 25_Re: to sharon and allyson0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:05:58 EST425_US-ASCII Allyson is running for SENATE???<br><br>That's GREAT. In PA, there is also the Physician General, my friend Wanda Filer. She knows what is happening, but is not a political person...just really wonderful.<br><br>Things ARE happening. However, out here in WA, Swedish Hospital just took over Providence; apparently Providence had set up it's own health insurance kind of thing and had reconfigured itself antici [...]
939 34 25_Re: to sharon and allyson0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:10:49 EST371_US-ASCII sorry..cut off...<br><br>Providence was anticipating some fairly extensive health care reform in WA and had reconfigured it's structure to accomodate what sounded like some really good proposals from the state legislature. Unfortunately, there was an election and Republicans took over the legislature, and any hopes of health care reform here were dashed. [...]
974 40 68_RE: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea. and death in the burgh9_Martin S.15_emskol@wans.net30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:27:05 -0500282_iso-8859-1 > -----Original Message----- On Behalf Of Smfgrappa@aol.com > Subject: Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea. and death in the > burgh > > And now for death in the burgh....a horor story about healthcare > in America. > Tell it and retell it is true > <snip> [...]
1015 67 41_To Avi R. and others - paradise is where?9_Martin S.15_emskol@wans.net30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:27:02 -0500544_iso-8859-1 Avi, et al...<br><br>As an American who has lived in Israel for an extended period - and most of my immediate family still lives in Israel - I've seen both countries and their changes over many years. Neither one is perfect and neither one is totally bad.<br><br>I've also had the privilege of living in various cities around America and visiting cities around the world; if nothing else, I have learned that there is no paradise except within. Each place I've lived has its pros and cons. The difference is always my attitude. [...]
1083 37 25_RE: to sharon and allyson9_Martin S.15_emskol@wans.net30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:37:43 -0500301_iso-8859-1 In order to negotiate your own > health care, you > need to know the structure of yiour HMO or MCO and be able to > use it to get > what you need, not exactly a good situation when you need health care. > > Debbie Well, there is a positive point here and a point for the "other side." [...]
1121 20 31_Healthcare, Habonim, and Unions0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:44:27 EST386_US-ASCII <br><br>hey- Why can't Habonim and Habonim Alumni become a Union, and provide our members with decent healthcare, retirement plans, etc....and then we can go out and by our own experiences, do what we do to help make everything better everywhere by our own example???? I am not kidding--I often wonder about how we want to organize everybody else except ourselves!....Sue [...]
1142 29 35_Re: Healthcare, Habonim, and Unions0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 12:56:38 EST594_US-ASCII Great idea, Susie. I know that many years ago, the Workman's Circle did this....we should be able to also....<br><br>Of course, that would only address OUR needs, and my guess is that most Habonetters are covered already; I'm sure that Sam,. for example, has good insurance (I know where he works)....and it would not address the systemic change that is needed...and perhaps our numbers are too small to warrant an affordable plan, but maybe we could hook up with another Jewish org to do so. Still, I don't know that people like Sam with good insurance coverage would be willing [...]
1172 25 35_Re: Healthcare, Habonim, and Unions0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 13:15:23 EST577_US-ASCII <br><br>I am not asking anyone to give up anything- I am asking to perhaps think about building something new....I know that, for example, when I worked at the JCC in Houston there was coverage and I am sure that most of the chevre have something- but perhaps we can look into doing something a little different. People can also look for supplemental insurance, not to mention other projects that have social implications....What I am saying is that we are NOT ORGANIZED!!!! And I think once we can do that as a group, many great things could come out of it....I [...]
1198 21 33_I am looking for a job- help!!!!!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 14:00:16 EST478_US-ASCII Dear chevre- I am actively seeking a different full-time job- For the past couple of years I have worked in a computer company as an administrator....( I lost my film jobs as a result of "Canada")...At any rate- If anyone out there knows of anything or anyone in the Jewish field, or filmwork, etc.....Help!!!!!!!....I am in L.A... (I know this may be out of the realm of Habonet etiquette- but what the heck!)....You can e-mail me privately at Liberhawke@aol.com [...]
1220 35 25_Re: to sharon and allyson0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 15:18:08 EST638_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/2/00 12:38:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, emskol@wans.net writes:<br><br><< My doc and I are partners in my healthcare - I read up and stay on top of treatments and strategies and all decisions are made jointly. We discuss everything. >><br><br>You're lucky to have doctors like that. I always keep track of treatments I had or new possibilities for the ordinary ailmnents of life, plus my 20+ struggle with TMJ, intermittantly severe back/neck pain, and (more recently) carpal tunel w/related symptoms. With ever-changing insurance (due to job changes or descisions beyond employee control made by Human [...]
1256 71 25_Re: to sharon and allyson0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 15:46:33 EST563_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/2/00 12:25:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, Rachelbern@aol.com writes:<br><br>> Also, I've always > consulted a PDR whenever I'm given a medication of any kind (and now check > around on the web, as well), so I'm not shy about asking educated questions > or noting possible drug interactions. I have found that most doctors do not > react well to this, particularly when I discuss meds. Sometimes I feel like > the war on drugs has made knowledge of anything ingestable suspect -- heck, > even if I didn't go out of my way to study [...]
1328 29 22_Partners in healthcare9_Martin S.15_emskol@wans.net30_Thu, 2 Mar 2000 16:29:06 -0500306_iso-8859-1 > You're lucky to have doctors like that. > It's not luck! I interview doctors until I find the one I can work with.<br><br>The doctor who first diagnosed me said "You'll get sick, we'll treat you, and then you'll die." I never saw him again! And that's when I took over my own healthcare. [...]
1358 54 26_Re: Partners in healthcare5_Batel25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:28:44 -0800504_us-ascii We test drive cars before we buy them, we examine them we study them and do a great deal of work before we commit to a vehicle. we do the same for other stuff we purchase. Yet, so often we don't do that to those we entrust our lives to. I too suffer from a chronic disease, one of the major reasons I live in the US and not Israel. I put my doctors through the ringer before I decide to go with specific one. I also lay out what I expect from the doctor, a cooperative relationship, one in [...]
1413 27 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!10_Ori Siegel17_oris@interlog.com31_Thu, 02 Mar 2000 23:13:10 -0500469_us-ascii At 02:00 PM 3/2/00 EST, you wrote:<br><br>>(I lost my film jobs as a result of "Canada")<br><br>You lost your film jobs as a result of chazerdicke union demands in Hollywood.<br><br>Ori<br><br>VA3ORI Toronto, Ontario, CANADA ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. -Douglas Adams ----------------------------------------------------------------------- [...]
1441 36 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!5_Batel25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Thu, 02 Mar 2000 22:39:31 -0800615_us-ascii Ori, I think you misinterpreted the remark. I don't thin Canada was blamed directly, rather the location. Batel<br><br>Ori Siegel wrote:<br><br>> At 02:00 PM 3/2/00 EST, you wrote: > > >(I lost my film jobs as a result of "Canada") > > You lost your film jobs as a result of chazerdicke union demands in Hollywood. > > Ori > > VA3ORI > Toronto, Ontario, CANADA > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by. > -Douglas Adams > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > [...]
1478 38 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!10_Ori Siegel17_oris@interlog.com31_Fri, 03 Mar 2000 01:49:35 -0500600_us-ascii At 10:39 PM 3/2/00 -0800, you wrote: >Ori, >I think you misinterpreted the remark. I don't thin Canada was blamed directly, >rather the location. Batel<br><br><br><br>Shalom Batel,<br><br>Actually, I got the remark dead on. It isn't a matter of where the jobs have gone, but why they've gone there. Union demands in Hollywood (and New York theatre, for that matter) have become extortionate. I could turn Sue's remarks around and talk about all the jobs in my field (television and theatre) that are gone because of the United States. Many of the reasons would be the same but it would [...]
1517 126 11_Monthly FAQ12_Jennifer Kay19_kay@elvis.rowan.edu31_Fri, 03 Mar 2000 02:32:02 -0500421_- Actually-from:BCooper@descartes.com<br><br>Hi Chevre,<br><br>Here is a reminder of the "essential" commands that you can use to configure your subscription to Habonet. I will post this monthly from now on. Please note -- The address for commands is: listproc@shamash.org whereas the address for posts to the list is: habonet@shamash.org If you need any help with any of it, send me an email: BCooper@descartes.com [...]
1644 35 38_Julia (Mark) Chaitin and David Chaitin13_julia chaitin20_jchaitin@urim.org.il30_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:01:33 -0100431_iso-8859-1 Hello everybody.<br><br>After getting Brian's reminder to introduce ourselves to the list - this is our introduction to the list.<br><br>In terms of Habonim background -<br><br>I, Julia (Mark) Chaitin, was in Habonim in Detroit during the late 60's, KM Bet at Tavor and MachnehBonim at Red Hook. I was on the 20th workshop (1970) at Yotvata and made aliyah in 1972. I have been a member of Kibbutz Urim since 1973. [...]
1680 19 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!0_14_FIZNIK@aol.com28_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:30:02 EST306_US-ASCII Ori--you did miss the mark. Sue was asking if anybody was aware of a job out there for her. She was not looking to start a fight, or argument, she was just making a statement. For you to glom on to a simple sentence and chastise her for it, certainly lacks sensitivity, and misses her point. [...]
1700 28 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:51:45 -0500351_us-ascii FIZNIK@aol.com wrote:<br><br>> Ori--you did miss the mark. Sue was asking if anybody was aware of a job out > there for her. She was not looking to start a fight, or argument, she was > just making a statement. For you to glom on to a simple sentence and chastise > her for it, certainly lacks sensitivity, and misses her point. > > Dan [...]
1729 36 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!10_Ori Siegel17_oris@interlog.com31_Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:51:00 -0500363_us-ascii At 08:30 AM 3/3/00 EST, FIZNIK@aol.com wrote: >Ori--you did miss the mark. Sue was asking if anybody was aware of a job out >there for her. She was not looking to start a fight, or argument, she was >just making a statement. For you to glom on to a simple sentence and chastise >her for it, certainly lacks sensitivity, and misses her point. > >Dan [...]
1766 24 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:00:37 EST611_US-ASCII Dear Chevre- PLEASE!!!!!!- Yes- I have been tarring the union "movement" because- as Bruce Arbit stated- times have changed from the 1920's- and the usual rhetoric doesn't work--But that wasn't the point of my "help" post and I would appreciate it if we could stop the accusations and arguments and focus on the point. This is a very sensitive and important issue for me ( and probably for the other 100,000 people unemployed who thought they had secure careers in the film biz)...Whenever an industry takes its leave form our country- there are a lot of "institutions" that are responsible...but [...]
1791 221 34_Re: I am looking for michael moore0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:03:40 EST540_US-ASCII <br><br>>Subject: Flint, Again -- A message from Michael Moore > > >03.01.00 > >Dear friends, > >I tried to write this letter to you last night, but the level of >sadness in me would not allow me to sit at this keyboard >and compose these words. > >How much more can my hometown take? How much more >do the people we love have to suffer? How much? How >much?? HOW MUCH! > >Isn't it enough that tens of thousands of lives in Flint have >been wrecked, destroyed by the greed of General Motors? >Isn't it enough that my wife and [...]
2013 21 45_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.0_18_SWeaver654@aol.com28_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:22:08 EST575_US-ASCII I've said it before and I''ll say it again. UNIONS are their members!! There is no distinction. Vote, get involved in committees that control rates if you give a shit! If you're willing to work non-union and under cut your friends who are just trying to make a living then don't complain. It is just horse shit that the unions drove production to Canada. There are tax incentives that contribute 40% to the budget. Sue you repeat that crap like its gospel. It is producer garbage. SAG has had low budget agreements since 1961. JUST STOP REPEATING THIS. you are [...]
2035 34 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!0_18_SWeaver654@aol.com28_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:45:53 EST559_US-ASCII Ori--<br><br>Yes you are probably right. Seagrams, ABC/Disney and Time Warner cannot afford to pay for reruns on TV more than they have been paying for 10 years (the last time the network run went up) Be proud of the fact that the Canadian unions( Not all of them I might add) have undercut their colleagues. Be proud that you have enabled NBC, CBS and ABC to maintain the same licensing fee for TV movies that they have been paying for 15 years. Oh that's right the entertainment industry is in such an economic slump that they can't afford to [...]
2070 20 37_Re: I am looking for a job- help!!!!!10_Ori Siegel17_oris@interlog.com31_Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:58:38 -0500502_us-ascii At 11:45 AM 3/3/00 EST, SWeaver654@aol.com wrote: >This debate has been informed by the multi-national conglomerates that >control all media in the US, Canada and around the world. Be careful of >the messages that you repeat without information.<br><br>Grow up, Sallie.<br><br><br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
2091 15 45_Re: Rain is falling on my orchard by the sea.0_16_YonatonS@aol.com28_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:31:25 EST600_US-ASCII I have been reading the letters about unions and have enjoyed the discussion. Interestingly, all the letters have been from chevre who have a very positive relationship with the idea of fairness to employees. I am a member of the union at our Jewish Federation (which also includes the Bureau and other agencies of the federation in Los Angeles). I know that without the efforts of our union over the decades we would not have the conditions that we currently have. We have medical, dental, disability, life insurance and a pension. We also have avenues to raise issues when grievances [...]
2107 131 17_FYI - Living Wage0_13_JLCAA@aol.com28_Fri, 3 Mar 2000 21:06:28 EST594_US-ASCII <br><br>I know there has been a discussion going on about unions and I will be happy to join in after next week. Right now I have our annual Human Rights Awards Dinner to run this coming Thursday and we're expecting 586 labor and business leaders --including John Sweeney, President of the AFL-CIO and CHarles Lee, Chairman and CEO of GTE Corp. In the meantime, I thought the chevre might be interested in seeing a resolution JLC put forward earlier this week at the Jewish Council for Public Affairs an umbrella organization consisting of 122 CRC's and 13 national agencies. The [...]
2239 35 28_More about Canada and Unions0_18_SWeaver654@aol.com28_Sat, 4 Mar 2000 09:35:37 EST662_US-ASCII Ori If you want the real data, check out the Monitor Report www.sag.org/runaway/runaway.html<br><br>The real information is this: 63 cents Canadian to the US dollar 40% tax incentives and subsidies by the Canadian federal and provincial governments directly to US employers making product primarily for the US market.<br><br>The unreasonable demands to which you refer specifically would be what exactly? Are you knowledgeable about this issue or have you been otherwise informed? My point although perhaps inarticulately made was that what has been informing the discussion has been less than an entire picture. I'm telling you--I have sat at the [...]
2275 18 5_Sorry0_18_SWeaver654@aol.com28_Sat, 4 Mar 2000 09:55:27 EST464_US-ASCII My apologies to the list and to Sue in particular. The tone of my communication was totally unnecessary and not productive on a very difficult debate. Bad week--hopefully next one will be better.<br><br>Regards to all. Good Shabbos- Sallie<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
2294 63 30_Health care, Canada and unions13_Rubin R. Salz21_curchacksalz@juno.com30_Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:33:15 -0800563_- As a Canadian living in the United States, and having experienced both U.S. and Canadian health care systems, I feel that I have something to say about that subject. First of all, I challenge anyone to find a Canadian of modest means who opposes a single payer health care system. All of these stories about people who had to wait or were denied this or that treatment, even if true are merely anecdotal material used by the health-care industry and its allies in this country to disparage the Canadian system. I guarantee you that I can find just as many [...]
2358 18 35_Re: Healthcare, Habonim, and Unions0_13_SC523@aol.com28_Sun, 5 Mar 2000 03:43:28 EST326_US-ASCII One of the last superadvantages of joining the LZA was the Blue Cross-Blue Shield group plan. Many people around country (my dad was one) kept their extra health insurance or, in some cases, their only health insurance, through that group. Perhaps the Habonim-Dror Foundation could revive this group plan? Aliya [...]
2377 69 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions0_16_Aborciah@aol.com28_Sun, 5 Mar 2000 04:39:12 EST386_US-ASCII I am delighted that Bobby sent a "first-hand" view of the health-care systems in both the U.S. and Canada. After reading the messages posted a couple of days ago, I was eager to respond, but as I tend to get online late at night and have to get up very early in the morning for work, I decided to wait until I had a little more time and could write (somewhat) coherently. [...]
2447 16 35_Re: Healthcare, Habonim, and Unions0_14_FIZNIK@aol.com28_Sun, 5 Mar 2000 08:48:59 EST303_US-ASCII Aliya, great suggestion! I hope Habonim will look into that.<br><br>Dan Zifkin<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
2464 75 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions0_14_FIZNIK@aol.com28_Sun, 5 Mar 2000 09:11:15 EST371_US-ASCII The heatlh system in the United States, specifically, the HMO;s and the inusrance companies, are a quiet and incredibly powerful lobbying force on the state, and national level. People like us unfortuantely are not. We are not as well organized or any way near as well financed. What I think would be a good suggestion for health care reform would be this: [...]
2540 25 28_Re:HMO'S HABONET digest 14650_18_GeeDoubleU@aol.com28_Mon, 6 Mar 2000 02:27:36 EST545_US-ASCII I hope people realize that there are differences in HMO's. There are for profit and not for profit HMO's and then there are consumer goverened HMO's. I have worked for a consumer goverened HMO for 12 years. The system is very sound. The health care is some of the best in the local area. No you cannot go to any specialist any time you would like, but you do not need to see a specialist for a hang nail or a pimple. Family practice physicians can treat most problems and if not will consult with a specialist often before sending [...]
2566 31 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 06 Mar 2000 11:42:18 -0500428_us-ascii <br><br><br><br>FIZNIK@aol.com wrote:<br><br>> The heatlh system in the United States, specifically, the HMO;s and the > inusrance companies, are a quiet and incredibly powerful lobbying force on > the state, and national level. People like us unfortuantely are not. We are > not as well organized or any way near as well financed. > What I think would be a good suggestion for health care reform would be this: > [...]
2598 145 21_Re: FYI - Living Wage12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:00:33 -0600 (CST)395_us-ascii Avi,<br><br>I applaud your resolution on living wages. But, in line with what Yoni said in a previous message, we might want to start our efforts "at home". In Houston teachers at Jewish day schools (and in synagogues) often have no benefits, no tenure, and not very good wages. The conditions under which Yoni works encourage me, but there is a long way to go across the country. [...]
2744 52 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 06 Mar 2000 12:19:45 -0600 (CST)387_us-ascii Hey,<br><br>Noam and I finally agree. His comments about the failure of Hillary Clinton's health care proposal (probably the biggest failure of the Clinton administration) should be kept in mind by all who wish to bring about real health care reform in the USA. The politicians were ready to pass real reform, but a single payer, government led system was easily defeated. [...]
2797 52 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Mon, 6 Mar 2000 15:05:48 EST569_US-ASCII In a message dated 00-03-06 13:26:11 EST, you write:<br><br>Dov you need to take into account the difference between the desirable and the passable. I support Gore, but it is important to remember that unlike many, Gore is not running around telling us the Canadian system is a monster failure. It is also important to remember that the failure of Hillary's health care plan had much to do with a greedy insurance lobby which spent almost $300 million of our premium money that they got to give us health care to defeat that plan . Many of the lies about [...]
2850 25 16_Health insurance9_Ben Cohen23_bencee@bellatlantic.net30_Mon, 6 Mar 2000 17:04:16 -0500587_iso-8859-1 In response to those of you who mentioned the possibility of creating a group of Habonim related people to obtain health insurance, let me caution you that this hard, if not impossible, to do, these days. LZA, in one of its prior versions, had all kinds of life and health insurance for its members, but had to give it up because the insurance companies and HMO's do not want so called "fraternal", non professional or business groups on their rosters. One by one, we lost Blue Cross and a number of lesser known insurers. They seek only businesses, unions, professional [...]
2876 123 23_Rapprochement, Anybody?12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 07 Mar 2000 19:30:16 +0200639_us-ascii Haverim/ot I culled this piece from the March 7 issue of the NY Times RAMALLAH JOURNAL<br><br>Poetry of Arab Pain: Are Israeli Students Ready? By SUSAN SACHS<br><br>RAMALLAH, West Bank, March 6 -- Mahmoud Darwish, the poet whose lyrical writings have long been a touchstone of Palestinian national passions, was banned from Israel and the occupied territories for nearly 30 years. Now he finds himself watching-still from afar, but with considerable bemusement-as his poetry becomes a weapon in the hands of right-wing Israeli politicians who would like to bring down the Government. "The Arabs are always accused of being a [...]
3000 22 18_re Mahmoud Darwish16_Linda Hirschhorn18_vocolot@sirius.com31_Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:47:55 -0700309_us-ascii <br><br>Does anybody out there know how to reach Mahmoud Darwidh personally? Years ago I set a fragment of one of his poems to music ("I Have a Million Nightingales") and have never known exactly from which collection it came. I'd also love to send him a copy of the recording- Linda Hirschhorn [...]
3023 146 27_Re: Rapprochement, Anybody?8_JON BAUM19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Tue, 7 Mar 2000 20:04:13 +0200392_iso-8859-1 Apropos of rapprochement, Ha'aretz announced today that Pearl Skolnick's son is finally being released from the slammer. Pearl, if you're reading this, b'sha'ah tova! Best of luck to Yoram and your family. ----- Original Message ----- From: Amnon Hadary <amriv@netvision.net.il> To: <habonet@shamash.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2000 7:30 PM Subject: Rapprochement, Anybody? [...]
3170 34 27_Re: Rapprochement, Anybody?13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Tue, 7 Mar 2000 14:11:04 -0500572_iso-8859-1 I think the release of Yoram Skolnik from jail after a 7 year period of imprisonment is a very good step of political justice, that is actually setting the stage for the correct perception that the release of killers from both sides of the war we hope is coming to an end is actually akin to the release of their respective prisoners-of-war. Up until now there was a big outcry on the right wing every time a Palestinian freedom fighter with even the slightest suspicion of blood in his hands was released. The motto and even the declared political stance [...]
3205 20 27_Re: Rapprochement, Anybody?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com28_Tue, 7 Mar 2000 22:17:33 EST515_US-ASCII I have no doubt that a peace settlement will require a prisoner exchange. The release of Palestinian prisoners does not necessarily bother me much. (I have to admit that I see no reason to release Israelis who murdered or tried to murder people.) However I don't think we have to call the Palestinians "freedom fighters." Besides the fact that these guys are generally terrorists who made little attempt to fight soldiers, they are also generally not interested in any kind of "freedom" I know about. [...]
3226 36 19_interesting dilemma12_AviRosenberg18_avi@gezernet.co.il31_Wed, 08 Mar 2000 08:28:56 +0200607_us-ascii A certain dilemma became apparent yesterday and I think it would be interesting to read peoples' reactions. Our kibbutz recently voted to implement a system of privatization. Basically it means that everything now costs money and members can decide whether or not to use most kibbutz services. Members also have the option of keeping their salaries and paying all their expenses or staying with a kibbutz takziv. So a question remains, what about our teenagers? Should they personally receive the money they earn for the days they work or should the money go into a "kupa"? I should point out [...]
3263 27 27_anyone know Arieh Lebowitz?0_21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 11:54:09 -0500459_iso-8859-1 Hi. I have received a bunch of subscription requests all claiming they heard of Habonet from Arieh Lebowitz. No such subscriber though, and none would answer the question I ask about their own habonim-dror connection. Sounds bogus to me. Anyone ever hear of an Arieh Lebowitz?<br><br>thanks, brian<br><br>----------------------------- Brian Cooper Web Development Manager Descartes Systems Group bcooper@descartes.com http://www.descartes.com [...]
3291 27 31_Re: anyone know Arieh Lebowitz?0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:17:22 EST418_US-ASCII I "knew" Arieh online when I was on Prodigy. I don't know if he has Habonim connections per se, but I believe he is involved with the Jewish Labor Committee or a similar group in NYC. We were both part of a religion discussion board, and he is bright, to the left politically, and I enjoyed his posts. He also seemed to know everything that was happening with the Jewish "left" in NYC, a great resource. [...]
3319 19 31_Re: anyone know Arieh Lebowitz?0_13_JLCAA@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 12:40:44 EST328_US-ASCII Arieh is one of my colleagues at JLC. He is quite active with Meretz USA ... a good guy and a great resource for issues Jewish, labor, labor history, Jewish history, social movements, etc. He also knows a number of habonim grads and believes strongly in promoting participation in internet lists such as ours. Avi [...]
3339 19 7_Vocolot16_Linda Hirschhorn18_vocolot@sirius.com31_Wed, 08 Mar 2000 10:59:18 -0700488_us-ascii Come Celebrate Women's History Month with Vocolot (Jewish Women's A Cappella) We will be in Kansas City on Sunday at B'nai Jehudah 712 East 69th ST. . call the JCC number 913-327-8000 for tickets- Linda Hirschhorn (Galil, Machaneh Bonim and 15th Workshop)<br><br><br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
3359 19 4_oops16_Linda Hirschhorn18_vocolot@sirius.com31_Wed, 08 Mar 2000 11:01:15 -0700506_us-ascii Forgot to give you time and date- Sunday March 12th at 3P.M.<br><br>Come Celebrate Women's History Month with Vocolot (Jewish Women's A Cappella) We will be in Kansas City on Sunday at B'nai Jehudah 712 East 69th ST. . call the JCC number 913-327-8000 for tickets- Linda Hirschhorn<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
3379 118 33_Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:08:10 +0200674_us-ascii "HEVRAH" The word translates out as society, group, company etc. In the old days before privatization and self aggrandizement reared their unlovely head in Israel the Histadrut differentiated between its economic enterprises like Tenuvah, Hamashbir and Solel Boneh which it called Hevrat Ovdim (The Workers' Company) and; the labor federation "which addressed communal, economic, and cultural affairs of the working class in the country for the building of the labor society in the Land of Israel." It therefore conducted extensive economic, mutual aid, and cultural, as well as trade union activities. Membership was personal and direct. What has happened to [...]
3498 32 18_re Mahmoud Darwish12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:13:14 +0200471_us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<br><br><br><br>Does anybody out there know how to reach Mahmoud Darwidh personally? Years ago I set a fragment of one of his poems to music ("I Have a Million Nightingales") and have never known exactly from which collection it came. I'd also love to send him a copy of the recording- Linda Hirschhorn [...]
3531 26 37_Re: Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:23:11 EST547_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/8/00 11:16:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, amriv@netvision.net.il writes:<br><br>> Nobody can say why the thirty-eight did not lift the phone while Miss > Genovese was being attacked, since they cannot say themselves<br><br><br><br>A number of them DID say that they did not come to her aid because they thought the assailant was her husband or boyfriend, and they did not want to get involved in a "relationship" issue. To those of us who deal with violence against women on a daily basis, this is not a surprise. [...]
3558 73 23_Re: interesting dilemma13_moshe sheskin24_sheskin@barak-online.net30_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 21:36:28 +0200551_iso-8859-1 Avi, you raise an interesting point. My kibbutz is about to vote on differential salaries and it appears that those for the proposal may very well be in the majority. I personally am in the opposition and the reasons may just be that I still believe in kibbutz. In order to prepare chaverim for the transition, a number of documents were handed out. One had to do with a report on the chaver/a's worth or rather the assessment of the job he or she was doing. It appears that the children are included in the total that the family will [...]
3632 924 38_Holocaust Museum Traveling Exhibitions0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 14:46:30 EST279_US-ASCII Coming to a museum, JCC, university, or library near you...<br><br>The attached schedule and exhibitions info is "Public Friendly," so feel free to pass it around to parents, teachers, etc. Please let me know if you have any trouble opening the attachment.<br><br>Rachel
4557 82 34_RE: Health care, Canada and unions12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 15:46:12 -0500534_- I've been out of town, so I apologize for the delay in answering.<br><br><if a hospital has installed a costly > MRI machine in an area where there are a couple of others available in the > > neighborhood, the real demand for its use may be insufficient to pay for > the > machine, so a decision to order the test in a given case may be affected > by > economics rather than good medical practice).> I work for the radiology department of a small community hospital. We routinely call physicians to say that we don't think the [...]
4640 64 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Wed, 08 Mar 2000 15:00:43 -0600 (CST)290_us-ascii All you say about the Canadian health system and the greed and power of the insurance lobby may be true. That is why I feel it is necessary to strive for the achievable. Hillary Clinton's massive failure ought to teach us a lesson about going for the possible, not the ideal. [...]
4705 40 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:32:21 EST651_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/8/2000 1:06:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, DLiberman@UH.EDU writes:<br><br><< Hillary Clinton's massive failure >><br><br>Dov,<br><br>You keep referring to Hillary as if she alone was responsible for the failure to reform health care. Granted she was the 'point person' and if she was successful would have received credit. 'Her failure' however really was an unsuccessful attempt to reign in the 'Hydra' insurance companies who could spend unlimited amounts of money [ our $$ ] in defeating any attempt at rocking the boat. Perhaps it was politically naive to imagine fundamental change could be legislated. It's sad [...]
4746 29 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:43:38 EST309_US-ASCII Amen to that, Marc. I get JAMA contents sent to me regularly online (as well as a few other medical journals) and there doesn't seem to be one issue lately without some mention of physicians organizing their own groups in a variety of ways.<br><br>Doesn't anyone else remember Harry and Louise? [...]
4776 19 31_Re: anyone know Arieh Lebowitz?0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 18:14:34 EST440_US-ASCII Brian, never think anything is bogus until you check it out. Aryeh Leibowitz is a Jewish Labor Committee guy and a former Hashomer Hatzair leader and a great resource for left and labor history as am I, by the way. I have a superb collection of New Left and counterculture books. There is also a great collection, perhaps the greatest in the world, at NYU in Manhattan as well. Happy Purim--Jack Nusan (the "nuisance") Porter [...]
4796 36 37_Re: Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Wed, 8 Mar 2000 20:47:58 EST554_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/8/00 11:16:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, amriv@netvision.net.il writes:<br><br><< ccused (actually he was framed by the Shin Bet for the deed they had done) of bashing out the brains of two Palestinian terrorists who had hijacked an Egged bus and were overpowered and later killed with their hands tied up, he was eventually cleared. Yoram Skolnick has now been released from jail. Maybe the messiah is around the corner. There is an aggadah that says about the messiah, "may he come and may my eyes not behold him." >> [...]
4833 52 27_Re: Rapprochement, Anybody?11_Tsippi Rudy21_tsip@worldnet.att.net31_Wed, 08 Mar 2000 21:48:35 -0800317_us-ascii <br><br>Yuval,<br><br>I don't recall your background, but I must say that I am apalled at the tone and some of the language in your 3/7 posting. "Freedom Fighters" my ass! Who have you been sleeping with lately, Richard Dreyfus, Martin Sheen and/or Vanessa Redgrave, to pick up such a distorted phrase? [...]
4886 43 26_The release of Pearl's Son17_Martin J. Goodman25_mgoodman@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 09 Mar 2000 10:40:33 +0200504_us-ascii I would like to extend a MAZEL TOV to Pearl on the release of her son. It is next to impossible for any one to imagine the hurt and sadness she experienced while her boy was in prison.<br><br>All of you who read Habonet, know that Pearl is a very gentle and polite individual [whatever you think of her politics]. Accordingly, she tends to turn the other cheek to insults. In particular she has elected [at least so far] not to respond to the words of Yuval Warshai in Habonet Digest 1467: [...]
4930 134 15_kibbutz changes13_moshe sheskin24_sheskin@barak-online.net30_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:31:11 +0200560_windows-1255 Avi, You raise an interesting point re teenagers on the kibbutz.. My kibbutz is about to vote on differential salaries and it appears that the majority are for the proposal . I personally against and the reason may just be that I still believe in kibbutz. In order to prepare chaverim for the transition, a number of documents were handed out. One had to do with a report on the chaver/a's worth or rather the assessment of the job he or she was doing. It appears that the teenagers were included in the total package that the family will be [...]
5065 109 14_moral dilemmas13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 11:46:23 -0500570_iso-8859-1 I believe we, as a group, have a moral dilemma of the first order in our hands. Why don't we first learn the facts as best we can, as much as possible, before proceeding in our moral and political judgements?<br><br>Here are two summaries, from two news publications, about some of the possible facts of the case. The first is from the Associated Press, and was published on the Internet edition of The New York Times on March 6. The second is from the Haaretz English internet edition. Granted, they are as incomplete as such news summaries can be. But [...]
5175 147 18_Re: moral dilemmas8_JON BAUM19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il30_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:59:51 +0200569_iso-8859-1 Yuval, my message on the Habonet was not meant to be political in any way. I simply wanted to express my feelings towards a fellow Habonim grad (whom I've never met) whose son's release from prison is the end of an extremely painfull personal tragedy. Who amongst us has never (or had loved-ones who never) made terrible mistakes, paid the price, and yet could depend on the love and support of relatives and haverim to help see them through? You wouldn't want to meet him? Well, I feel the same way about you. Regardless of ideology, I like my friends [...]
5323 138 27_Re: Rapprochement, Anybody?12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 09 Mar 2000 11:01:03 -0600 (CST)377_us-ascii Dear Amnon,<br><br>I am not affiliated with any of the right wing parties you mention. But i can understand how Jewish parents might get upset at a poem that says Jews should be gone from their land. Is their any reason why the Israeli government won't let Darwish back in? Are there any activities in which he was engaged that might have prompted this decision? [...]
5462 54 27_Re: Rapprochement, Anybody?12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 09 Mar 2000 11:01:03 -0600 (CST)554_us-ascii Just a note to say that I take exception to the tone of the note about the release of Yoram Skolnik. The anti-religious sentiments ("kippah donning") represent an unfortunate form of bigotry that has often been part of left wing Zionism. We should be ashamed of it. And I also take exception to the references toward Yoram himself. I do not know him, but i do know that President Weizmann (hardly a part of the hard right in Israel) saw fit to reduce his sentence twice based on the facts of the case. Yhe idea that he murdered an innocent [...]
5517 48 37_Re: Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 09 Mar 2000 11:13:43 -0600 (CST)586_us-ascii There is a fascinating book by Latene and Darley, The Innocent Bystander, that deals with the Kitty Genovese phenomenon. The two of them did experiments involvoing putting people in emergency situations. What they found out was that when a lone person is confronted with a crisis, she/he is much more likely to react to solve the crisis than are people who are in a group (or who know that other people are witnessing the crisis). They speculated that being in a group causes a sort of mutual paralysis. Each person sees the others not reacting, is not sure he/she should [...]
5566 39 37_Re: Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 12:37:10 EST395_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/9/00 9:20:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, DLiberman@UH.EDU writes:<br><br>> > It is a matter of group psychology, not one of not caring. They concluded > that if Genovese had been attacked in a dark alley, and only one person > witnessed it (and knew she/he was the only witness), there was a much > greater chance that the police would have been called. > > Dov [...]
5606 61 37_Re: Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 09 Mar 2000 12:38:12 -0600 (CST)349_us-ascii No point in getting into arguments over events and research that happened 30 years ago. At the time no one saw the Genovese event as showing tolerance of violence toward females. And most of the people interviewed by Latane and Darley said that they just thoguht that someone closer to the victim saw what was going on and would help. [...]
5668 41 37_RE: Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG30_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 13:46:08 -0500516_- <This is typical academic stuff. Others interviewed actual witnesses to the > attack who said that they didn't come to her aid because they thought it > was > "just" an argument between a husband/wife or boyfriend/girlfriend.> Many witnesses also said they assumed someone else would have already called, which falls into the findings of the study described by Dov and a previous writer (sorry, I forget who it was). Just because there was more than one element does not mean only one is valid or legitimate. [...]
5710 51 37_Re: Man's Inhumanity to Man and Woman0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 14:07:08 EST344_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/9/00 10:47:07 AM Pacific Standard Time, FineS@MLHS.ORG writes:<br><br>> Personally, I find it offensive that violence by women against their male > partners is almost always ignored. Just because it's less common does not > mean it doesn't matter, or that it's any less traumatic to the victimized > partner. [...]
5762 19 30_Re: The release of Pearl's Son0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 17:10:47 EST437_US-ASCII I just heard about Pearl's son being released, and I am happy for her. The long ordeal is over for Pearl and her wonderful husband. I met them both last year after or at the Habonim reunion in Jerusalem and stayed with them in Ramot. I also agree with Martin Goodman that it is important to be respectful in tone and content on the internet. Best wishes to you Pearl and to your husband if you read this--Jack Nusan Porter [...]
5782 31 18_Re: moral dilemmas0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 23:57:26 PST536_iso-8859-1 Jon, thank you so much. Your reply moved me to tears. I am glad you are able to understand that the world is not black and white -- there is a lot of grey area out there. The whole story of what happened at Sussia was never printed. There was a lot of politics involved in the responses of so many. Life is not only politics. Life is seeing the human being behind the story and giving the benefit of a doubt. Life is understanding that things aren't always what they seem. Life is knowing that mistaken judgement is not [...]
5814 119 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 18:07:00 EST577_US-ASCII In a message dated 00-03-08 15:47:08 EST, you write:<br><br><< I work for the radiology department of a small community hospital. We routinely call physicians to say that we don't think the test they've ordered is appropriate. In other words, we turn business away on a regular basis, if there is not a good medical reason to perform the test. We don't look first at what kind of insurance (if any) they have. I believe our approach is the rule rather than the exception. We routinely perform MRI's on indigent people with no insurance. (I use MR as the example, [...]
5934 21 30_Re: The release of Pearl's Son0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Sat, 5 Jan 80 00:24:15 PST554_US-ASCII Jack, thank you so much for your good wishes. It is painful to read things like yuval wrote through ignorance and so important to us to know that there are kind, understanding people who identify with us. shabat shalom, pearl ------------------------------------- E-mail: skolnik@netvision.net.il Date: 05/01/80 Time: 12:24:15 AM<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
5956 20 14_anyone know...0_21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:43:14 -0500497_iso-8859-1 anyone know Dalya Meidan? Says she was in Hashomer in the late 60s and had lots of habo-freinds... would like to join. Is this one real? I'll sign her up if someone says the name is familiar...<br><br>you can write me off-list if you want.<br><br>regards, brian/list mom<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
5977 38 9_FW: Tavor0_21_BCooper@descartes.com30_Thu, 9 Mar 2000 20:43:16 -0500623_iso-8859-1 I received message below a while ago... replied with offer to subscribe her to habonet and have not heard since. If anyone knows her please feel free to make contact.<br><br>regards, brian<br><br><br><br>-----Original Message----- From: Joe Barb [mailto:sammye@mpc.com] Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 1:38 PM To: BCooper@descartes.com Subject: Tavor<br><br><br><br>I went to Camp Tavor in the middle 70's. I'm looking for a song sheet with the song that we would sing at the flag pole in the morning and we also sang somthing in hebrew. Could you help me out with that. I went their for 4 summers. I loved [...]
6016 163 34_Re: Health care, Canada and unions17_Stanley Weintraub15_stanw@erols.com31_Thu, 09 Mar 2000 23:17:15 -0500623_iso-8859-1 Sam,<br><br>How are you? Its been a long time. I finally decided to get in on these health care posts.<br><br>The maturation of the MRI, and most other costly high tech diagnostic services (CT scans, PET scans, etc.) are complicated. They are driven by both the cost of the technology and the acceptance in the medical community. The first machines are usually purchased, through subsidies by the manufacturers, by teaching hospitals and other very large institutions. The more the technology is used, the greater its acceptance, and awareness by the medical community. It is now taken for granted that MRI [...]
6180 16 23_Re: interesting dilemma0_16_YonatonS@aol.com29_Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:22:44 EST321_US-ASCII Avi: Your letter raised interesting issues. While I am not prepared to comment in that I live in Los Angeles these days, I love the dynamic involved in your question. I look forward to hearing replies from others more closely involved. Good reading from you. Hope all is well with you and your family. Yoni [...]
6197 613 14_moral dilemmas15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:47:32 +0200
6811 16 13_Jaffee center12_Stan Goldman17_stan@inter.net.il31_Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:35:16 +0200431_us-ascii It is interesting that according to the Jaffee center a poll showed that 60% of jewish israeli's accept the return of the golan for peace BUT our kenessit wants a vote of more than 50% of registered voters.<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
6828 27 47_dan oron seeking marty gruder and steve sherman0_21_BCooper@descartes.com31_Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:48:08 -0500444_iso-8859-1 Hi again,<br><br>Dane E. Orron, MD (orron@netvision.net.il) (not subscribed) said to me:<br><br>> [I went] to college with Marty Gruder and Steve > Sherman who were on year kibnbutz in 1972-3, in college we > ran a student zionist group in St Louis, I am living in > Israel and often wonder where they are-last I heard Marty > was a chiropractor in the Boston area. I was in Hashomer before > that. Would like to renew contact. [...]
6856 22 32_Moral Dilemmas and New Neighbors11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sat, 11 Mar 2000 09:11:01 -0500501_us-ascii For a linking of the Yoram Skolnick affair and Israel's postzionist struggle to transform itself from an ethnocracy to a democracy visit:<br><br>http://www3.haaretz.co.il/ht/htmls/kat11_4.htm<br><br>This is an Op-Ed in from Friday's Haaretz.<br><br>Shabbat Shalom,<br><br>Mark<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
6879 17 18_Re: moral dilemmas0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:15:54 EST406_US-ASCII Hi Leo- I tried to download the article you mentioned that you had attached-and it came out as gibberish...do you have the original website??? I would really like to read that...Sue<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
6897 20 18_Re: moral dilemmas0_14_BUBELE@aol.com29_Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:45:41 EST313_US-ASCII Leo, I too couldnt get the article . Could you attach the article, or send to those of us who are interested? I am so pleased for Pearl, and agree that some of these posts were nasty. I hardly expect that way of handling from Habonetters - evidently, these few failed to introject our human values. [...]
6918 119 18_Re: moral dilemmas11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sun, 12 Mar 2000 16:54:46 -0500572_us-ascii The text of the Jerusalem Post Op-Ed of 3/10/00 that was referred to by Leo follows:<br><br>ON TARGET: Lives Worth less By Tallie Lipkin-Shahak<br><br>(March 10) In the name of security, anyone classified as a potential enemy is inferior, and his life is forfeit.<br><br>This week it was once again proved that the price list for human life in Israel is progressive. If you are a Jew, your life is worth loads, and one who takes a Jewish life will be severely punished. If you happen to have been born Arab, your life is worth very little. Especially if the [...]
7038 125 18_Barnes and Ignoble0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 01:56:07 EST445_US-ASCII <br><br>Chevreh,<br><br>This is an email received from a rabbinical student here in New York. I think it has many relevancies for those of us with Habonim consciences (from Aliya):<br><br>There are a number of good reasons to boycott Barnes & Noble, like Amazon.com and other massive chains of booksellers, because they are a cause of business failure for smaller bookstores run by people who actually care about books and people. [...]
7164 16 22_Re: Barnes and Ignoble0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:17:40 EST261_US-ASCII Amazon.com has it too.<br><br>Debbie<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
7181 26 41_Solomon Schechter Academy thanks you.....0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:26:44 EST406_US-ASCII Dear Chaver Steve:<br><br>Your call to chaverim to support Sid as the " corban" in raising money for our local Solomon Schechter Academy was an unparalleled success. Because of your post, a large number of chaverim responded, and the results were more than gratifying.<br><br>The word CHAVERSHAFT immediately comes to mind. It's plain that we will belong to each other until the number 120 ! [...]
7208 34 36_Re: Moral Dilemmas and New Neighbors12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 12:57:45 -0600 (CST)277_us-ascii I wonder if there is a prayer for keeping Israel a Jewish State. If anyone knows a pro "ethnocracy" prayer, please send it to me. (P.S. If it is in Arabic that is OK. I assume there must be one, since most of the countriesd in the Middle East are "ethnocracies". [...]
7243 133 18_Re: moral dilemmas12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 13:03:38 -0600 (CST)337_us-ascii Dear Mark,<br><br>Certainly you are not seriously maintaining that Arabs who have been responsible for the killing of jews have not been released by Israeli authorities. I think that an examination of the release of PLO prisoners that has taken place as part of the "peace process" will indicate that such is not the case. [...]
7377 157 18_Re: moral dilemmas0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com29_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 14:35:17 EST617_US-ASCII Dearest Dov,<br><br>Your facilty to always respond to something other than the issue at hand is most artful. The below article, I believe written by some relative to Amnon Lipkin-Shahak [ btw, my former ma'gad ...i think that's the term....my mind is rusty on those old military shortcuts and early contender for the PMship ] is the 'gris' for the mill of this particular discussion. Mark H. simply has provided an Israeli press 'source' of current discussion taking place in Israel regarding the 'early' release of a convicted murderer and that connection to the relative status of 'humanity'. Kind of [...]
7535 26 18_Re: moral dilemmas14_Ethan Schwartz18_schwar@isdn.net.il31_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:13:57 +0200578_iso-8859-1 I'm happy for Pearl and the rest of the Skolnik family. My joy for them has nothing to do with my feelings about her son's terrible murder. The question of justice in this country where crime is divided immediately by nationalist acts and criminal acts is another problem. People who pass out leaflets and write on walls are grouped with bomb makers and stabbers of people, held for arbitrary times and arbitrarily released. The Justice system in the US stinks also. The press has taken over from the courts. Even more so here. Trial by the press has become the [...]
7562 16 18_Re: moral dilemmas0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:35:17 EST349_US-ASCII Ethan, Perhaps I am thick, most who know me would probably agree, but what do you mean by, "non representative 'democracy?'"<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
7579 140 22_Re: Barnes and Ignoble8_Pristoop22_cpristoo@mail.bcpl.net31_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 19:05:56 -0500633_us-ascii Thanks for passing this information along. I own some stock in Barnes and Ignoble, and will feel more noble after I dump it. Allan Pristoop<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>At 01:56 AM 3/13/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Chevreh, > >This is an email received from a rabbinical student here in New York. I think >it has many relevancies for those of us with Habonim consciences (from Aliya): > >There are a number of good reasons to boycott Barnes & >Noble, like Amazon.com and other massive chains of >booksellers, because they are a cause of business >failure for smaller bookstores run by people who >actually [...]
7720 22 14_What morality?0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Mon, 13 Mar 2000 22:43:59 EST540_US-ASCII I was going to go to sleep but I just couldn't without commenting.<br><br>I was listening to NPR tonight and heard a report about Israeli conscientious objectors being sent to prison and other soldiers sent to prison for not following orders they felt were wrong. Now, I have no objection to this. In a country that needs an army you just can't allow people to be so moral all the time. But it struck me as a sad irony that people who feel the Israeli army is not moral enough for them being sent to prison and a cold blooded [...]
7743 28 18_Re: moral dilemmas14_Ethan Schwartz18_schwar@isdn.net.il31_Tue, 14 Mar 2000 07:10:21 +0200349_iso-8859-1 Nobody in the Knesset feels they owe their job to Ethan, the Eilati. Our system does not even pretend to be representitive, other then the silly direct election for Prime Minister. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Richardrdsmith@aol.com> To: <habonet@shamash.org> Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2000 1:35 AM Subject: Re: moral dilemmas [...]
7772 64 16_Re: Magic touch?0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 14 Mar 2000 00:47:04 EST503_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 3/14/00 12:11:22 AM, Shula n' Sid write:<br><br><< From: Shulansid@aol.com Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 11:26:44 EST Subject: Solomon Schechter Academy thanks you..... To: habonet@shamash.org<br><br>Dear Chaver Steve:<br><br>Your call to chaverim to support Sid as the " corban" in raising money for our local Solomon Schechter Academy was an unparalleled success. Because of your post, a large number of chaverim responded, and the results were more than gratifying. [...]
7837 23 26_Barnes and Ignoble Part II0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Tue, 14 Mar 2000 01:41:31 EST311_US-ASCII My Habodaughter, interestingly enough, felt that the Barnes and Ignoble email suggested a curtailing of freedom of speech; that B & N has the right to call Protocols or Mein Kampf or whatever Judaica especially if that's how they feel people who need to find the book will categorize and find it. [...]
7861 32 30_Re: Barnes and Ignoble Part II10_Ori Siegel17_oris@interlog.com31_Tue, 14 Mar 2000 02:21:48 -0500432_us-ascii At 01:41 AM 3/14/00 EST, SC523@aol.com wrote: >I was much more bothered by the smugness of B & N's reply...<br><br>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Barnes & Noble the first major bookstore to remove Satanic Verses from their bookshelves the moment Iranian bookworms threatened reactive criticism? I'll bet they didn't have it listed under "Islamic Studies" either. Real sensitive kinda bookstore, wouldn't you say? [...]
7894 25 30_RE: Barnes and Ignoble Part II12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG31_Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:58:53 -0500576_- <My Habodaughter, interestingly enough, felt that the Barnes and Ignoble email suggested a curtailing of freedom of speech; that B & N has the right to call Protocols or Mein Kampf or whatever Judaica especially if that's how they > feel people who need to find the book will categorize and find it.> I agree with your daughter that B & N has every right to sell the book. I strongly object to their listing it under 'Judaica', just as a book for skinheads would not be appropriately listed under 'African-American Studies'. And, like you, I also found their responses [...]
7920 25 38_Re: moral dilemmas and 'menshlachkeit'20_Sima Goldfarb-Rivlin19_rivlin@canaan.co.il31_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 06:17:40 +0200434_us-ascii Haverim,<br><br>I do not know Pearl personally. I do know, from her postings on that we have some ideological differences. I also know that this discussion on Habonet - is heartless. Although this thread is an intellectual exercise for some - we are talking about Pearl's SON! Whatever happened to compassion and Menshlachkeit? We have more than enough moral dilemmas to write about on this list. Let's let this one go. [...]
7946 33 38_Re: moral dilemmas and 'menshlachkeit'0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:01:51 EST550_US-ASCII Dear Sima- Ditto!......And to Aliya- while I agree with your sentiments- we also have to realize the fact that Barnes and Noble is only doing what is expected of it as a business and the bottom line is to make money and be responsible to its stockholders. That is the bottom line of big business in the United States,and it would be naive to expect it to be otherwise. I remember in the early 60's, my father was offered a "deal" by a big drug-store chain ( it was "Reade's Drugstores"--do they still exist???) to sell-out ( he owned a [...]
7980 16 38_Re: moral dilemmas and 'menshlachkeit'0_16_Aborciah@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 03:14:58 EST250_US-ASCII Sima, I'm with you! Anita<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
7997 16 38_Re: moral dilemmas and 'menshlachkeit'0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:10:48 EST421_US-ASCII Any and all politics aside, I am glad that we are coming to our senses and begining to act like menshin. Sima, thank you and Pearl, one mother to another, may Hashem look over you and your family.<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8014 18 10_a question0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 11:32:56 EST312_US-ASCII I signed up for Ha'aretz online after reading so many articles on Habonet. My posting comes with lots of "gobbledy gook" and the titles of articles highlighted in blue to enter for the article. Since I'm not the most technologically based person, I want to ask if this is how it is supposed to be? [...]
8033 72 14_Barnes & Noble0_13_JLCAA@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:13:03 EST453_US-ASCII <br><br>FYI - part of my correspondence w Barnes & Noble on this issue. Avi *********************************************************** Dear Mr. "Bill"<br><br>I'm not sure which aspect of your response I find most offensive ... the fact that you didn't forward my letter to the President of the company as requested, or your weak attempt to cloak a business objective (making a profit) in the name of "...our responsibility to a society." [...]
8106 15 38_Re: moral dilemmas and 'menshlachkeit'0_16_YonatonS@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 12:42:51 EST427_US-ASCII Well put! Let's have a little heart in remembering what is an intellectual exercise to some is a very painful event to another. In this case, let us give Pearl the support she deserves as a mother. Yoni<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8122 61 29_Purim Shpiel - American Style0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 16:23:44 EST374_US-ASCII --------------------------<br><br>Every Purim, Jews unite to drown out Haman's name. This year we suggest<br><br>a few more reasons to make noise.<br><br><br><br>In the era of the Persian Empire, Esther spoke on behalf of the entire<br><br>Jewish people. Since then, only one woman has delivered the "State of<br><br>World Jewry Address" at the 92nd Street Y. [...]
8184 16 33_Re: Purim Shpiel - American Style0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:59:30 EST398_US-ASCII Are we not being a tad insensitive? Haman had a family and I'm sure they would feel really bad if they knew so many people were spinning their groggers to blot out his name.<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8201 36 22_Re: spinning..blotting0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 00:54:39 EST418_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 3/16/00 12:13:54 AM, Richardrdsmith writes:<br><br><< From: Richardrdsmith@aol.com Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 20:59:30 EST Subject: Re: Purim Shpiel - American Style To: habonet@shamash.org<br><br><br><br>Are we not being a tad insensitive? Haman had a family and I'm sure they would feel really bad if they knew so many people were spinning their groggers to blot out his name.>> [...]
8238 19 13_MENCHLACHKIET15_mendy mendelson24_frenchhorn81@hotmail.com29_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 01:10:35 PST363_- <br><br>Ditto to Sima and to all who feel that way. I sent a personal E_M to Pearrl because I don't feel that it is right to use Habonet for such things. Keep it up Sima and maybee we will succeed in returning Habonet to what it should be. MENDY ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com [...]
8258 30 33_FW: Purim Shpiel - American Style12_Fine, Sharon14_FineS@MLHS.ORG31_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 10:34:36 -0500563_- > I assume Haman's family is not on Habonet. Everyone is entitled to > their opinions and all are entitled to express them, but I don't think you > should deride the people who've suggested that another venue might > be more appropriate. > -Sharon > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richardrdsmith@aol.com > To: habonet@shamash.org > Sent: 3/15/00 8:59 PM > Subject: Re: Purim Shpiel - American Style > > Are we not being a tad insensitive? Haman had a family and I'm sure > they > would feel really bad if they knew so many people were spinning their [...]
8289 23 17_Re: Tavor reunion17_Rena Cheskis-Gold16_renacg@ntplx.net31_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 11:46:50 -0400444_us-ascii > Dear All,<br><br>I'm interested in knowing who is thinking of attending the Tavor reunion in August of 2000. I'm allowing myself to be persuaded that seeing people I haven't seen since high school in the environment we then shared could be a real blast. I also look forward to singing and dancing, as only Habonim people can do it. (and Cropsie stories?) So, if you're toying with the idea, let the rest of us know via Habonet. [...]
8313 23 17_Re: Tavor reunion14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 18:53:40 +0200318_iso-8859-1 Rena:<br><br>There is an email address set up - tavor_reunion@hotmail.com . You might try there. I know that I plan to be there - chance has it that we are planning a family visit to the States this summer and I am dumping my wife & kids on her siblings and I wouldn't miss it this time for the world! [...]
8337 41 17_Re: Tavor reunion12_Nancy Gordon13_nancy@dtg.net31_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:33:15 -0500597_iso-8859-1 Rena, Is this the kumsitz that will be held in NYC? I thought it was to be in June. Sorry, I don't know what Tavor is.<br><br>Nancy ----- Original Message ----- From: Rena Cheskis-Gold <renacg@ntplx.net> To: <habonet@shamash.org> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 10:46 AM Subject: Re: Tavor reunion<br><br><br><br>> > Dear All, > > I'm interested in knowing who is thinking of attending the Tavor reunion in August of 2000. I'm allowing myself to be persuaded that seeing people I haven't seen since high school in the environment > we then shared could be a real blast. I also look [...]
8379 19 10_Mosh 2000!0_15_Moshava@aol.com29_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 12:53:35 EST324_US-ASCII With all this talk about the Tavor reunion I wanted to remind everyone about the Mosh 2000 Reunion, Sunday, August 27, 2000. If you want to be on the mailing list in order to get registration materials, let me know (or if your address has recently changed). See you at Mosh! Tammy 800-454-2205 moshava@aol.com [...]
8399 16 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Thu, 16 Mar 2000 22:43:53 EST284_US-ASCII Rena, I'll be t here!<br><br>Debbie Schilmeister Levenstein<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8416 16 13_Tavor reunion0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 00:00:09 EST356_US-ASCII I am looking forward to the Tavor reunion in August. If it's only half as good as the last one, it will be great fun!! Aviva Tauman<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8433 37 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 01:28:27 EST535_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 3/16/0 12:48:26 PM, you wrote:<br><br>>Is this the kumsitz that will be held in NYC? I thought it was to be in > >June. > >Sorry, I don't know what Tavor is. > Nancy and others,<br><br>Please don't mix up the kumsitz and the Tavor reunion. The kumsitz is in New York City on Saturday night, June 3rd, and is sponsored by the Na'aleh Camp Committee, the Habonim-Dror Foundation, and the LZA. The Tavor reunion is in August for people who grew up at Habonim Camp Tavor in Three Rivers, Michigan. [...]
8471 18 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_18_Blasiolalm@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 14:45:02 EST354_US-ASCII I am interested in a Tavor reunion, haven't seen or heard from many of my friends in a long time.<br><br>Lisa Tann Blasiola 79-82<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8490 71 29_Getting Organized Makes Sense0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 15:14:35 EST482_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 3/3/00 12:18:32 AM, Sue L, LiberHawke@aol.com writes on Habonet:<br><br><< What I am saying is that we are NOT ORGANIZED!!!! And I think once we can do that as a group, many great things could come out of it....I know there are at a couple of thousand of us...That isn't too skimpy a group. As a "union"-- perhaps we could tackle a few things...Avi Lyons???? Your input would be appreciated...sue (I am not letting you off easy!!!!)..... >> [...]
8562 159 49_Fwd: Fw:Holocaust Remembrance Day (May 2nd, 2000)15_mendy mendelson24_frenchhorn81@hotmail.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 13:06:03 PST1204_- <br><br><br><br>>From: "Sima Goldfarb-Rivlin" <simagr@telhai.ac.il> >To: "ronit yahel" <roniti@maayan-baruch.org.il>, "shlomi" ><giftedsh@zahav.net.il>, "osnat shabtay" <shabtay@amiad.org.il>, > "Miriam Rein" <reinhosh@netvision.net.il>, "Raphael" ><SHALEM@pobox.com>, "peter" <peterm@har-vagai.org.il>, "orini" ><orini@canaan.co.il>, "nechemia meyers" <meyers@netvision.net.il>, > "Mendy Mendelson" <frenchhorn81@hotmail.com>, "Joel Liederman" ><elarad@interlog.com>, "Avi and Marla Goldstien" ><haber@netmedia.net.il>, "Michael Joseph Goldfarb" ><thefarb@pacbell.net>, "Maralyn Harold Goldfarb" ><harpaul@total.net>, "Helen Goldfarb" <hgoldfarb@yahoo.com>, >"Esther & Sachie Tomalsky Goldfarb" <esther.sachie@sympatico.ca>, >"diana" <diana@telhai.ac.il>, "daniella" <daniella@golan.org.il>, >"Linda Cohn" <lbcohn@hotmail.com>, "Shlomo Cohen" <solc@erols.com>, >"Shaul Cohen" <shaulc@telhai.ac.il>, "Ariel Cohen" ><mathgod@netvision.net.il>, "carmiel" <mangk@memad.karmiel.k12.il>, > "Jana Ben-Moshe" <boazjana@shani.net>, "Rafi Aharon" ><vca2000@yahoo.com> >Subject: Fw:Holocaust Remembrance Day (May 2nd, 2000) >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2000 15:28:37 +0200 > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Sima [...]
8722 16 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:03:12 EST418_US-ASCII Dear Aliyah--Is it too late to change the dates of the Tavor reunion at Camp Tavor in August? And by the way, what are the dates of CAJE and where will it be held? Shabbat Shalom, Jackie Porter<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8739 19 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:08:05 EST428_US-ASCII Avivele: So good to hear from you. I hope to be at the Tavor Reunion again. Yes, it was nice last time and this time I WILL bring my tape recorder and record the kumzitz songs for posterity. I really think someone in the music business and who can do a professional job should record these kumzitzim. People will pay good money for a CD or tape of these old songs. I really think so. Shabbat Shalom--Jackie Porter [...]
8759 15 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:11:04 EST321_US-ASCII To: Rena Cheskis-Gold: Yes, I"ll be there, G-d willing, too, at the Tavor Reunion. Jackie Porter<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8775 14 33_Re: Purim Shpiel - American Style0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:19:19 EST271_US-ASCII Actually, according to a recent article in the<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8790 25 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:23:24 EST556_US-ASCII It's a shame that the reunion is at the same time as CAJE. Aliya, does this mean that you will be at the CAJE conference and that we will NEVER meet in person? Sigh...<br><br>BTW, for anyone who is thinking about attending the Tavor reunion, I hear that most of the motel rooms, if not all, are completely booked up. I can't imagine that they are that full of Tavorniks....I wonder if there is something else going on in Three Rivers, maybe another KKK rally or a militia conference....if you haven't decided yet, I'd suggest you do so SOON! [...]
8816 36 33_Re: Purim Shpiel - American Style0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 17:37:32 EST607_US-ASCII Dear Women: According to a recent article in the (Milwaukee) Wisconsin Jewish Chronicle, and according to a report by the UJC, women own 60% of the wealth of the country and run 60% of the family foundations (Vol. 23, No. 10, March 10, 2000, p. 1). At the same time, federations and philanthropic organizations around the country are seeing more and more women elected to their boards and serving in leadership positions. Though women in some communities still feel they are under-represented, according to reporter Mardee Gruen, that doesn't seem to be the case in Milwaukee and, I might add [...]
8853 34 48_Re: Fw:Holocaust Remembrance Day (May 2nd, 2000)0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:00:14 EST568_US-ASCII My apologies to all forwarders; I think this is a very poorly thought out idea. I do not mean to dis what is obviously a heartfelt concept, but whoever originated this email clearly does not understand the size of 6 million....<br><br>Like so many chain letters, it's already confusing to locate the actual message of this email with just a few sets of screen names and a pile of routing information; imagine how long it would take to find it through 6 thousand screen names, much less 6 million! And-- assuming that amount of data could fit in an email [...]
8888 36 48_Re: Fw:Holocaust Remembrance Day (May 2nd, 2000)0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:10:26 EST509_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/17/00 3:01:26 PM Pacific Standard Time, Rachelbern@aol.com writes:<br><br>> Better to honor > the dead by getting out from behind the computer and doing something to save > > the living. ><br><br><br><br>Amen, Rachel.<br><br>That email reminds me of a USY project in the Central Region a number of years ago....we were going to collect 6 million cancelled stamps and display them in some kind of acrylic thing to visually demonstrate what that many of something looks like. [...]
8925 16 30_Re: The release of Pearl's Son0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 17 Mar 2000 18:28:59 EST412_US-ASCII Yes, my heart is with the two of you. I hope Yoram can start a new life and you can too. I hope we will see you again in Ramot or in Boston. Shabbat Shalom and Hag Samayach--Jackie Porter<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
8942 45 14_Menschlichkeit11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:06:23 -0500350_us-ascii Chevre,<br><br>Our sage Hillel taught: In a place where there are no people (read: menschen), endeavor to be one (Avot 2:5).<br><br>The struggle to be a decent person is lifelong. If one is truly committed to this then one must learn sooner or later that the path is never obvious and that forks in the road appear many times each day. [...]
8988 15 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 19 Mar 2000 04:51:30 EST364_US-ASCII CAJE is August 13-17 at Hofstra on Long Island. Go to www.caje.org for details. The Tavor reunion is the same time. Can't be changed. Aliya<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
9004 15 9_Apologies0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Sun, 19 Mar 2000 05:26:29 EST376_US-ASCII I was responding to Jack Porter's query about the CAJE Conference and the Tavor Reunion dates - didn't mean to respond to the whole list - sorry. Aliya<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
9020 15 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_15_Hamsa97@aol.com29_Sun, 19 Mar 2000 08:13:11 EST329_US-ASCII The Tavor reunion is August 11th thru 13th... Its not exactly at the same time as CAGE.....Miriam Derman<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
9036 155 27_Re: Mark and Menschlichkeit12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 19 Mar 2000 18:51:07 +0200696_iso-8859-1 At 00:09 19/03/00 EST, you wrote: > > HABONET Digest 1478 > >Topics covered in this issue include: > > 1) Menschlichkeit > by Mark Hammel <mhammel@ulster.net> >Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.20000318230623.007be9a0@pop.ulster.net> >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2000 23:06:23 -0500 >To: habonet@shamash.org >From: Mark Hammel <mhammel@ulster.net> >Subject: Menschlichkeit >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Chevre, > >Our sage Hillel taught: In a place where there are no people (read: >menschen), endeavor to be one (Avot 2:5). > >The struggle to be a decent person is lifelong. If one is truly committed >to this then one must learn sooner or later that the path is [...]
9192 43 36_Yoram's father answers Lipkin-shahak0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 14:46:30 PST627_US-ASCII The following letter appeared in the Jerusalem Post today, March 19, 2000, in response to Lipkin-Shahak's article.<br><br>"In her diatribe against the early release of my son Yoram Skolnik from prison, Tallie Lipkin-Shahak ("Lives worth less," March 10) convenient- ly disregards the fact that hundreds of Arab terrorists convicted of murder have also been released from prison, within the framework of the Oslo and Wye accords. This is precisely the context in which my son's sentence was reduced by the President, in the name of justice. I doubt very much if your writer expressed such a sense of outrage when, [...]
9236 203 36_answer to critics of Yoram's release0_29_skolnik@mail.netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 14:57:15 PST560_US-ASCII First, I wish to thank all of you who wrote me off-line to express your support. These good wishes from you who mean more to me than anyone else in this world were received with tears, because I knew then that your human instincts overcame the ugly media attacks which more than usual were without any basis in fact. We received messages from people in the government to "let the dogs bark and the convoy will pass," but it is difficult to sit quietly while people attack without any factual knowledge behind what they write or say on TV. People [...]
9440 105 27_Re: Mark and Menschlichkeit12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:26:42 +0200356_iso-8859-1 Mark wrote:<br><br>Our sage Hillel taught: In a place where there are no people (read: menschen), endeavor to be one (Avot 2:5).<br><br>The struggle to be a decent person is lifelong. If one is truly committed to this then one must learn sooner or later that the path is never obvious and that forks in the road appear many times each day. [...]
9546 89 27_Re: Mark and Menschlichkeit11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sun, 19 Mar 2000 22:07:25 -0500327_iso-8859-1 Amnon,<br><br>You do me great honor by taking my point exactly in the direction I wished it might go, but to a level far beyond what I dreamed.<br><br>I will try later this week to take up the thread of parashat Kedoshim. The issue is not that we should refrain from reproving one another, but from what angle. [...]
9636 22 7_apology0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 22:21:42 PST461_US-ASCII I apologize to Jon and to Habonet for my private correspondence which was inadvertantly sent to the whole list. I have learned my lesson to check the address now when I press "reply." I still do not understand why sometimes "reply" will lead to the list and sometimes just to the person you want to reply to. Technology is not my forte. pearl ------------------------------------- E-mail: skolnik@netvision.net.il Date: 04/01/80 Time: 10:21:42 PM [...]
9659 22 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_13_SC523@aol.com29_Mon, 20 Mar 2000 01:40:51 EST483_US-ASCII Miriam is right that the actual CAJE Conference begins on 13 August until 17 August (about 2400 Jewish educators). But the pre-Conference (about 300 of the 2400 will arrive then) begins on Thursday, 10 August, and CAJE Shabbat, of which I'm co-chair this year, (about 400 more will arrive then) begins on 11 August. So theoretically a Jewish educator Tavornik could, indeed, miss CAJE Shabbat, come to the reunion,and then fly immediately to New York to be at CAJE 25. [...]
9682 42 56_Weep O Jerusalem- newly discovered Dead Sea Fragment....0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:43:44 EST546_US-ASCII In light of the discussion here- I felt it pertinent to reprint a portion of a "new " ancient fragment discovered in the Caves of Qumran- it is attributed to a Yitzchak ben Bechi.....<br><br>Weep O Jerusalem For the mother of Cain and Abel Weep O Jerusalem For the mothers of Goliath and David And for Haman's mother And for the future mothers of Hitler and Ben Laden And for the mothers of the slave-sellers and buyers-- For to kill the spirit is as bad as murdering the body Weep O Jerusalem, For a God who would allow the murder [...]
9725 51 40_Re: answer to critics of Yoram's release0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:02:11 EST558_US-ASCII I would just like to share a couple of thoughts. First I am one of those who wrote Pearl off line to offer encouragement and I am proud that I did so.<br><br>Second, I can appreciate that Pearl is upset that Meretz is appealling the release in court, but it is not wise of Fred to call Meretz left wing extremists. Afterall, many of there participants on this page are Meretz supporters on a wide variety of issues and admire the stands the party has taken. As everyone is probably aware, Meretz does not advovate or practice terrorism and has [...]
9777 50 40_Re: Yoram's father answers Lipkin-shahak12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:23:20 -0600 (CST)638_us-ascii Amen<br><br><br><br>>The following letter appeared in the Jerusalem Post today, March 19, >2000, in response to Lipkin-Shahak's article. > >"In her diatribe against the early release of my son Yoram Skolnik from >prison, Tallie Lipkin-Shahak ("Lives worth less," March 10) convenient- >ly disregards the fact that hundreds of Arab terrorists convicted of >murder have also been released from prison, within the framework of the >Oslo and Wye accords. >This is precisely the context in which my son's sentence was reduced by >the President, in the name of justice. I doubt very much if your writer >expressed such a sense of [...]
9828 217 40_Re: answer to critics of Yoram's release12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 20 Mar 2000 13:35:45 -0600 (CST)366_us-ascii Although in recent weeks I have been following Yoram Skolnik's case fairly closely, I felt that if we were patient those close to him would come to his defense and present the facts involved in the case. I am happy that his parents, who know so much more about the case than I, have done so and that Yoram has finally received the justice he deserves. [...]
10046 15 17_Re: Tavor reunion0_13_VFINK@aol.com29_Tue, 21 Mar 2000 00:59:52 EST313_US-ASCII I am most definately planning on being there. Varda (Schwartzman) Fink, Tavor 1958-1962.<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
10062 71 34_Jobs for Today's Jewish Organizers0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 21 Mar 2000 12:16:33 EST780_ISO-8859-1 -----Original Message-----<br><br>From: Jews for Racial and Economic Justice [mailto:jfrej@igc.org]<br><br>Sent: Monday, March 20, 2000 8:11 PM<br><br>To: jfrej-alert@igc.topica.com<br><br>Subject: Exciting JFREJ Job Openings<br><br><br><br>Dear JFREJ Friends and Supporters,<br><br><br><br>Jews for Racial & Economic Justice has two exciting job openings, that we hope you can help us spread the word about. JFREJ is seeking:<br><br><br><br>Starting immediately: A part-time Office Manager (with benefits) who will manage the administrative functions and the office space of a fast-paced and small grassroots nonprofit organization. We are looking for someone committed to social change work and with excellent computer, communications and follow-through skills. [...]
10134 17 8_lastpage0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 21 Mar 2000 15:52:27 EST310_US-ASCII I was afraid this would happen!<br><br><br><br>http://home.att.net/~cecw/lastpage.htm<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
10152 26 44_MIAs from the 23rd Workshop at Maayan Baruch11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 21 Mar 2000 23:16:42 -0500478_us-ascii Dear Chevre-<br><br>We are still missing information on 3 participants from the 23rd Workshop at Maayan Baruch:<br><br>Sharon Kalb (from NJ) Billy Lewis (from NY) Andy Biederman (from CA)<br><br>Any help is highly appreciated!<br><br>Warmly- Judy Gelman<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
10179 135 33_Fwd: 5rs: problems with computers0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Wed, 22 Mar 2000 12:34:58 EST17_US-ASCII <br><br>
10315 30 22_11th workshop MIA's...0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Wed, 22 Mar 2000 13:36:31 EST423_US-ASCII Dear Chevre- We are also missing some chevre- if anyone has any clues as to the whereabouts of the following- please e-mail me directly at Liberhawke@aol.com...Thanks:<br><br>Allan (Micha) Goldenberg Sol Perel Annete Achter Steve Klein (LA- but where?) Bruce Fein Yoel Isaacson Carol Levine Gail Golub Davie Joftis Harriet Tilem Sandy Kaplan Helen Hantman Sherry Kovitz Judy Barry Judy Glasner Michelle Kayne [...]
10346 434 60_Fwd: [Tikkunlist] Amos Oz says no to Syria, Yes to Palestine0_12_SHX2@aol.com29_Wed, 22 Mar 2000 23:32:33 EST17_US-ASCII <br><br>
10781 25 10_relocation22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Thu, 23 Mar 2000 08:51:36 -0500594_- Dear Chicago area chevra, My family and I may be relocating to the Chicago area. Are any of you out there, specifically in the Buffalo Grove - Vernon Hills area? If so, please respond privately to me at candeb@juno.com. I would like to arrange for my daughter, who is in 7th grade, to visit a school there. Thanks in advance, Deborah Tanzer-Cohen ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. [...]
10807 26 14_Re: relocation0_14_Ohanka@aol.com29_Thu, 23 Mar 2000 13:16:28 EST379_US-ASCII <br><br>In a message dated 3/23/00 9:05:38 AM, candeb@juno.com writes:<br><br><< My family and I may be relocating to the Chicago area. Are any of you out there, specifically in the Buffalo Grove - Vernon Hills area? If so, please respond privately to me at candeb@juno.com. I would like to arrange for my daughter, who is in 7th grade, to visit a school there. >> [...]
10834 48 0_0_29_benjamin_laden@peoplesoft.com31_Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:12:51 -0500425_us-ascii You Wrote: ___________________________ Subject: Weep O Jerusalem- newly discovered Dead Sea Fragment.... Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:43:44 EST From: LiberHawke@aol.com Reply-To: habonet@shamash.org To: habonet@shamash.org<br><br>In light of the discussion here- I felt it pertinent to reprint a portion of a "new " ancient fragment discovered in the Caves of Qumran- it is attributed to a Yitzchak ben Bechi..... [...]
10883 14 20_Re: Ben's Mom's Cake0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Thu, 23 Mar 2000 17:27:11 EST287_US-ASCII I ate her cake and I think it was criminal if not terroristic.<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
10898 64 40_Re: answer to critics of Yoram's release12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 23 Mar 2000 15:27:17 -0600 (CST)560_us-ascii Throwing people in wheelchairs off of ships; invading synagogues and murdering the inhabitants therein; planting mines in playgrounds; invading schools and murdering children--these were typical acts of the PLO (now transformed into the PA)--acts about which they crowed and expressed pride. Lehi never engaged in such acts. And when accused of perpetrating the slaughter at Dir Yassin they vehemently denied it. They realized, as the PLO never did, that these are not acts of which to be proud. Comparing Lechi to the PLO is an obscene slander. [...]
10963 21 14_Re: relocation22_Deborah M Tanzer-Cohen15_candeb@juno.com31_Thu, 23 Mar 2000 18:28:10 -0500377_- IT still may not happen. This has been a horrible week. But not to worry - Talia will be returning to Galil forever and ever. Deb ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. [...]
10985 108 42_I'M STILL IN GALUT BUT NOW I'M PROUD OF IT12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 24 Mar 2000 16:31:03 +0200591_us-ascii <br><br>Haverot/im I once heard an engaging story about the benefits of psychotherapy for enhancing one's self-acceptance and sense of worth. A man who continued to bed wet into adulthood met a friend who asked him if he was still bedeviled by the problem. "I'm cured," he said. "That's wonderful, how did you do it?" Smiling broadly, the bedwetter answered "I still wake up wet in the morning, but now I'm proud of myself." Purim has come and gone again to Jerusalem. We had two reminders of Jewish atavism. Jerusalem celebrates Purim a day later than the rest of the country [...]
11094 166 26_Fwd: Barnes & Noble letter0_16_Elana829@aol.com29_Fri, 24 Mar 2000 11:30:43 EST17_US-ASCII <br><br>
11261 129 57_Fwd: Glad to be Alive--Meyers Column on Jerusalem Stoning0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Fri, 24 Mar 2000 22:53:33 EST248_US-ASCII Dear Chevre- I as was asked by Nechemia to forward this to the net--- I saw a film today called "Kadosh"-- There is also an Israeli Film Festival here in a week or so--- Anyone else who has seen "Kadosh"--it is something to talk about..Sue
11391 126 15_Israel's divide13_Elihu Davison21_EliD@worldnet.att.net31_Sat, 25 Mar 2000 06:40:59 -0500591_us-ascii Amnon Hadary's Habonet 1484 posting about the vile remarks of Ovadia Yosef prompt me to put fingers to keyboard. Amnon and I discussed Shas when we lunched together in Jerusalem a week-and-a-half ago. It was in something of a different context, but I am prompted to recount the substance again now. One of the multiple hats I wear is as Israel chair of my federation, MetroWest New Jersey. (MetroWest isn't a place but a state of mind! more literally it includes all of Essex, Morris and Sussex counties and perhaps small chunks as well of Hudson, Union, Sommerset and Passaic [...]
11518 38 30_"Kadosh" asher lo Kadosh......0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 25 Mar 2000 13:47:42 EST563_US-ASCII Dear Chevre- Yesterday I had a sad experience. My best friend had offered to take me out to the movies for a relaxing day after having spent a week in bed with the flu...I had wanted to see "Kadosh"- raves were everywhere in the press ( not that I usually care about critics anyway...I have seen too many good films blossom from "word of mouth" after having been shot down by a critic's pen)....I was excited as the lights dimmed, and the film just "started"-- with 10 minutes of watching an Orthodox man get dressed in between his minute utterings [...]
11557 175 20_Haaretz: Forgiveness11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sun, 26 Mar 2000 09:03:23 -0500191_us-ascii Chevre:<br><br>I thought was an eloquent statment at which we need to take a hard look:<br><br>http://www3.haaretz.co.il/eng/scripts/print.asp?id=73199<br><br>Shavua tov,<br><br>Mark
11733 68 25_Fwd: Haaretz: Forgiveness0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 26 Mar 2000 12:47:53 EST17_US-ASCII <br><br>
11802 20 34_Re: "Kadosh" asher lo Kadosh......0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sun, 26 Mar 2000 17:11:16 EST533_US-ASCII Yes, Kadosh is a very important film and needs much discussion but not all the men made one "puke"--the husband was very loving and caring. But also we must not use harsh language like "puke" ; these are human beings locked into a rigid system that needs to be modified and mollified. As Jews, language is holy; we need to "shamur et ha safah"; guard our language. "Puke" is too harsh a word. "Pity", even "anger" at the actions. In the end, the women liberate themselves. I urge people to see the movie. Jackie Porter [...]
11823 28 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:27:41 -0500341_us-ascii Sue,<br><br>One might think from your reponse that the article in question was written by the mufti himself. The most significant aspect of it, however, is that it is an op-ed in Haaretz, hardly an antizionist or even postziohnist rag, although I must say that Gideon Levy's statement is moving us in the postzinist direction. [...]
11852 30 29_Re: Fwd: Haaretz: Forgiveness11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 26 Mar 2000 21:01:24 -0500507_us-ascii <br><br><br><br>LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:<br><br>> ... > The only way to get on with it is to stop the blame game and > need to beat one's chest- and work with a positive focused eye on what we can > build in the future- beginning with the NOW!!!!...<br><br>Dear Sue,<br><br>It is too bad the rest of your message contradicts this noble thought. Perhaps a good way to begin to build the future is to acknowledge one's part in creating the past. Why is it so hard to accept some reponsibility? [...]
11883 32 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 27 Mar 2000 01:26:48 EST324_US-ASCII In a message dated 3/26/00 6:03:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, n.stopak@scienceserver.com writes:<br><br><< Why is it so hard to accept some reponsibility? >> Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe the Palestinians and their Arab brothers ALSO had a part in perpetuating the awful existence of the camps? [...]
11916 36 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:23:10 -0500536_us-ascii <br><br><br><br>LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:<br><br>> In a message dated 3/26/00 6:03:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, > n.stopak@scienceserver.com writes: > > << Why is it so hard to accept some reponsibility? > >> > Why is it so hard for you to admit that maybe the Palestinians and their Arab > brothers ALSO had a part in perpetuating the awful existence of the camps? > > Admitting to the participation of creating a mess in the Middle East has no > place in building a positive future ( to me it is the perpetual "whine"). [...]
11953 142 46_Re: I'M STILL IN GALUT BUT NOW I'M PROUD OF IT12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 27 Mar 2000 12:29:15 -0600 (CST)441_us-ascii Dear Amnon,<br><br>You will have to be my teacher again, because I don't get it. The king of Persia had signed a decree authorizing the murder of all the Jews. As megillat Esther states, it was not possible to rescind this decree. It is clear from the text that the enemies of the Jews (Antisemitism is not an atavistic fantasy.) had organized to carry out this government condoned genocide. (This sounds pretty modern to me.) [...]
12096 59 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 27 Mar 2000 13:02:10 -0600 (CST)612_us-ascii Dear Noam,<br><br>I am not clear about what you mean about aplogizing. Clearly Naziism was a vicious evil, the destruction of which was a great boon to mankind. But in wars terrible things happen. It is inevitable. Should the allies apolgize for the bombing of Dresden? Should they apologize for all the innocent German civilians who were killed? Should the Palestinians Arabs apologize for the injustices they perpetrated? Is your answer is yes to these questions, then we are on the same wavelength. I have no problem with Israel's apologizing for making mistakes in the pursuit of a just cause. [...]
12156 37 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Mon, 27 Mar 2000 22:03:09 -0500593_us-ascii <br><br><br><br>Dov Liberman wrote:<br><br>> Dear Noam, > > I am not clear about what you mean about aplogizing. Clearly Naziism was a > vicious evil, the destruction of which was a great boon to mankind. But in > wars terrible things happen. It is inevitable. Should the allies apolgize > for the bombing of Dresden? Should they apologize for all the innocent > German civilians who were killed? Should the Palestinians Arabs apologize > for the injustices they perpetrated? Is your answer is yes to these > questions, then we are on the same wavelength. I have no problem with [...]
12194 23 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Tue, 28 Mar 2000 17:59:19 EST464_US-ASCII I see nothing that can be gained by countries apologizing.<br><br>I see no reason to apologize for the bombing of Dresden or the killing of "innocent" Germans.<br><br>I don't want an apology from Germany; I want reparations. I don't want an apology from the Palestinians; I want them to stop killing people. I don't think the Palestinians want an apology from the Israelis; I think they want their land back and for Israel to stop taking more of it. [...]
12218 69 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness5_Batel25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Tue, 28 Mar 2000 18:39:56 -0800571_us-ascii If anyone is to ask for forgiveness it should be because it needs to be asked and not because there are other matters at hand, including peace, reparations, land or a state or any other "just cause."<br><br>Ya, I know, I'm a dreamer...<br><br>Dov Liberman wrote:<br><br>> Dear Noam, > > I am not clear about what you mean about aplogizing. Clearly Naziism was a > vicious evil, the destruction of which was a great boon to mankind. But in > wars terrible things happen. It is inevitable. Should the allies apolgize > for the bombing of Dresden? Should they [...]
12288 21 15_Help, anyone???0_17_Shulansid@aol.com29_Tue, 28 Mar 2000 22:02:46 EST404_US-ASCII Dear Friends: and chaverim<br><br>A friend of mine, Ellen Kaplan in Northampton, Massachusetts, (a Prof. at Smith College) is going with her family (mom, dad and 2 kids) to Israel this summer and would like to trade her house and car for an apartment or house in Israel. Ideally they would like to be on kibbutz, but anything is okay. If you know of anyone, let me know. Thanks, Shari Troy [...]
12310 19 8_THE POPE12_Stan Goldman17_stan@inter.net.il31_Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:15:40 +0300334_us-ascii I think we should drop the subject of a apology by the Pope. How many of us ever thought the Pope would go as far as he did in words and actions. He went far beyond what other Popes have ever done in his actions and words. He is only the Pope not God. I am sure that the Cardinals around him have some control over him. [...]
12330 21 31_Jewish Labor Committee Haggadah0_13_JLCAA@aol.com29_Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:00:51 EST464_US-ASCII The Jewish Labor Committee is producing a Haggadah for Passover this year. I am looking for quotes from Jewish labor leaders to include. Anyone who has suggestions (actual quotes - not suggestions of where to look for them) PLEASE email them to me. We have quotes from A.D. Gordon , Yaariv Ben Aharon and others but one or two from Ber Borachov et al would be helpful as well. So send me your favorites and we'll see if we can include them. Avi Lyon [...]
12352 23 9_a request0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 29 Mar 2000 14:59:27 EST377_US-ASCII My daughter, Shaari Ginsburg Freed, Gilboa '77-'81, and Grofit '82, has posted a questionaire on line. The answers will help her with the completion of her masters' thesis on Birth and Family. Any participation by members of Habonet would be greatly appreciated. If answering at all feels at all like an intrusion of your privacy, please just use the delete key. [...]
12376 27 12_(no subject)0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Wed, 29 Mar 2000 15:06:27 EST479_US-ASCII My daughter, Shaari Ginsburg Freed, Gilboa '76 -'81, and Grofit '82, has launched a questionaire on line. The results will help her with the reserach that she needs to complete her Masters' thesis. If you should decide to participate your answers will remain confidential and anonymous. If any of the questionaire feels as an invasion of your porivacy, please use the delete key. Also, feel free to forward this site to anyone in your address book, not on Habonet. [...]
12404 17 16_Re: (no subject)0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:55:44 EST477_US-ASCII A time ago, I as a sociologist, also did a questionnaire of Habonim chevreh, I'd love to see a hard copy or an email copy of your questionnaire. To fill it out and to help you as a professional sociologist who has done this before.--Jack Porter (UMass)<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
12422 15 16_Re: (no subject)0_22_Richardrdsmith@aol.com29_Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:05:51 EST298_US-ASCII Jack, Are there any other kind of sociologists other than "professional?"<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
12438 15 8_THE POPE12_Stan Goldman17_stan@inter.net.il31_Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:09:08 +0300352_us-ascii Great amswer to my comment on the Cardinals. But I am afraid that the Baseball Cardinals will apologize before the CHURCH BIRDS<br><br>------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------=
12454 128 63_FW: On Barnes and Noble and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion11_Katz, Alisa22_ABKatz@bos.co.la.ca.us31_Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:42:00 -08001537_iso-8859-1 Hello everybody. This is from my Rabbi. Once you get past a thousand e-mail addresses you can read the message...the problem seems to have been resolved. Regards, Alisa Belinkoff Katz<br><br>-----Original Message----- From: Jrosove@aol.com [mailto:Jrosove@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2000 5:46 AM To: bkramer@wesleyan.edu; dkrame01@emerald.tufts.edu; RKZaiden@students.wisc.edu; msamulon@uclink4.berkeley.edu; Ducksloth1@aol.com; ahill2@sas.upenn.edu; YogiSarah@aol.com; Joeybadfsh@aol.com; srr5@humboldt.edu; LaVieEnLA@aol.com; AB828@columbia.edu; Hatteras1@earthlink.net; CATY1118@aol.com; JJENN18@aol.com; REL7997@aol.com; CACutie98@aol.com; lkatz@uclink4.berkeley.edu; abs37@umail.ucsb.edu; Jpomeran@ucsd.edu; bflehrer@princeton.edu; TheoBaker@hotmail.com; MeganH16@aol.com; Drs39@columbia.edu; CSislin@leland.stanford.edu; Laurelllll@aol.com; rbraun@ucsd.edu; Matpolin@uclink4.berkeley.edu; TNGfreak@aol.com.Siaarons@syr.edu; ellen.aprill@lls.edu; CERTMD@aol.com; babenzi@pacbell.net; Epi53@aol.com; bshpall@filmroman.com; LAJPMort@aol.com; BLashenick@aol.com; GiLpErsOn2@aol.com; WaynBar@aol.com; Lblag@aol.com; Robinkrame@aol.com; hafinc@earthlink.net; alitewka@creativedomain.com; smandel@lafreeclinic.org; HollywoodPT@earthlink.com; esamulon@att.net; mszatmary@smsla.com; WilliamW60@aol.com; lwassoc@compuserve.com; RutNus@aol.com; mdouek@home.com; Revivalcon@aol.com; Gmfromla@aol.com; LNierob@aol.com; tcsamulon@att.net; akantrowitz@mediaone.net; s_share@msn.com; barryg@celebconn.com; Jrosove@aol.com; [...]
12583 43 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:43:49 -0600 (CST)439_us-ascii I believe that it is probably safe to say that there are disputes about who has what rights to what lands in Eretz Yisrael. It was the Arabs (Palestinians) who have rejected every compromise made in regarding this issue, and that is why the Jews (usually in wars of defense against aggression) have wound up with more land than was allocated to them by the original compromise rejected by the Arabs and accepted by the Jews. [...]
12627 116 24_Re: Haaretz: Forgiveness12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:46:43 -0600 (CST)727_us-ascii FYI<br><br><br><br><br><br>Reprinted from The Jerusalem Post of March 28, 2000<br><br>A DEAL IN VAIN By Evelyn Gordon (Although a majority of Israelis now support much more far- reaching concessions than ever before, Palestinians still insist on all or nothing) -------------------------------------------------------- The fact that talks on a final-status agreement with the Palestinians resumed last week in Washington might seem rather uninteresting. After all, talks with the Palestinians have been occurring on and off for the last seven years. Yet the event is noteworthy in light of an extraordinary document published by 120 Palestinian academics, intellectuals, artists, and legislators the week before. [...]
12744 65 7_Excuses12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 30 Mar 2000 23:29:35 +0200592_us-ascii <br><br>Dov, you know that by me, even gospel isn't gospel. So to ask me to take Megillat Esther seriously as the evidence for some pretty insupportable contemporary notions is a good example of Purim fun. A Yiddish aphorism declares that fever (kadokhes) is not quite a sickness, nor is Purim a holiday (kein yomtov.) And the truth of it is that Megilat Esther is a spoof. There are other accounts of dubious authenticity in the Tanakh but they can be regarded as exercises in hyperbole or as teleological argumentation -such as that God hardened Pharos's heart so that he and [...]
12810 28 11_Re: Excuses0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com29_Thu, 30 Mar 2000 18:40:25 EST498_US-ASCII Amnon baby. I read the Megilah from cover to cover or pole to pole a long time ago when I had to teach it in Hebrew school. It was never a pretty picture. I could go for all the vaudville but the blood letting at the end really got to me. And you are right. As long as we were not armed and dangerous, you could kind of shrug it all off. Afterall Jews were always good at vaudville. But it is hard to believe that we now of Jews like Goldstein that want to take Migilat Eshter to its [...]
12839 119 17_Haaretz: Land Day11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Fri, 31 Mar 2000 06:13:12 -0500608_us-ascii Chevre, Shabbat Shalom,<br><br>I 'm posting this interesting and provocative op-ed by the ever interesting and provocative Meron Benvinisti. It is my way of bearing witness to Land Day 1977 (if memory is correct) when police opened fire on Israeli Palestinian citizens demonstrating in the Galil.<br><br>This was a painful and tumultuous day in my life, marked by the appearance of Police Minister (Shlomo Hillel?) on evening TV to announce that "they" will not dictate to "us." That was the moment in my life that I realized that Israel was not the state of its citizens and therefore was not [...]
12959 27 13_op-ed article0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 31 Mar 2000 11:14:14 EST568_US-ASCII Since we had been discussing health insurance issues here a while ago, I thought I'd let y'all know that I wrote an article that is going to be published in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer tomorrow morning about managed care.<br><br>I know some of you have done this before, but it is new to me and I'm really excited about it! If anyone is interested, let me know and I'd be glad to email it to you; basically, it was a response to an editorial decrying the increase in psychotropic medication being given to young children. My point was that the entire [...]
12987 66 17_Re: op-ed article0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Fri, 31 Mar 2000 14:38:56 EST593_US-ASCII Mazel Tov Debbie! From your postings on healthcare and other topics, I'm sure your article is both clearly informative and persuasively heartfelt, and I really look forward to reading it. Perhaps you could post it to Habonet, since I expect many of us would like to see it?<br><br>It may be different for the more well-known and prolific writers among us; I have to say that 21 years since I first saw my name in print, I still find it exhilarating. I've only published full-length stories and articles in museum publications and a friend's Fanzine (I don't count newsletters or [...]
13054 30 17_Re: op-ed article0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:13:42 EST477_US-ASCII Rachel, first of all, thanks for the compliment.<br><br>My kids used to always scold me when I corrected their language, telling me, "Mom, you're NOT AN ENGLISH TEACHER!"<br><br>And your note reminded me of a letter to the editor that I had written years ago; a Pittsburgh area school district was requiring that all children make decorations for the Christmas tree, and one mother objected. Her children were harassed, she recieved threatening phone calls, etc. [...]
13085 139 25_Fwd: LETTER TO THE EDITOR0_15_DebALev@aol.com29_Fri, 31 Mar 2000 15:14:17 EST17_US-ASCII <br><br>
13225 46 30_Creative and Destructive Myths12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 31 Mar 2000 22:38:06 +0200607_us-ascii <br><br>Haverot/im We're about half way into the countdown between Purim and Pesach. There is a world of difference between these two spring holidays not least in the myths that are subsumed in them. In thinking about these myths one can observe an interplay between creative and destructive legends. The Jews' Haman complex led them to invent and mimic a prototypical enemy. As it is recited at the seder, our exodus legend enables us to chart a utopian course an ideological progression from-we were slaves onto Pharaoh in Egypt to-next year in Jerusalem. Where Purim is at best a spoof and [...]