1 SHAMASH.ORG /usr/www/wwwhc/listserv/archives/habonet January 2000 2 19 36_Re: And I Dance When I Can't Talk #20_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 22:58:49 PST425_us-ascii sam, the song you wrote for your mom is very moving and beautiful. Do you have it on tape? pearl ------------------------------------- E-mail: skolnik@netvision.net.il Date: 04/01/80 Time: 10:58:49 PM

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 22 27 18_Dance/Talk and Y2K19_Nesher G. Asner, MD15_neshera@uic.edu31_Sun, 02 Jan 2000 20:06:27 -0600413_us-ascii At 10:58 PM 1/4/80 PST, you wrote: >sam, ... ----------------------------------- >E-mail: skolnik@netvision.net.il >Date: 04/01/80 >Time: 10:58:49 PM > > > Anybody else notice the date on this posting? So, is her e-mail program non-Y5.76K non-compliant, or the server hosting this list, or my e-mail program? This is written/sent on 2 January, 2000. We'll see how it gets posted on the list. Nesher [...] 50 22 22_Re: Dance/Talk and Y2K0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Sun, 2 Jan 2000 21:03:53 EST520_us-ascii i didn't notice the date on that...but i hear that older machines, such as Compaqs, are having trouble.

So far, so good up here in the Seattle area. No "incidents," and the utilities are still working...this was a major non-event, I guess.

Happy Sylvester, everybody.

Debbie

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 73 41 16_RE: Talk and Y2K14_Robert pacbell20_robmagid@pacbell.net31_Sun, 02 Jan 2000 18:29:45 -0800403_us-ascii No one really knows which machines might have problem, but it is rumored that older machines 486 and below might show more trouble. Both my Compaq's 133 Pentium's are working okay(so far ). The key is to make sure your software is updated. For those having trouble check for updates at the manufacturer i.e. Microsoft, for windows, outlook, explorer, etc. Compaq for systems software etc. [...] 115 126 11_Monthly FAQ12_Jennifer Kay19_kay@elvis.rowan.edu31_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 02:32:02 -0500421_- Actually-from:BCooper@descartes.com

Hi Chevre,

Here is a reminder of the "essential" commands that you can use to configure your subscription to Habonet. I will post this monthly from now on. Please note -- The address for commands is: listproc@shamash.org whereas the address for posts to the list is: habonet@shamash.org If you need any help with any of it, send me an email: BCooper@descartes.com [...] 242 175 50_Fwd: [AB] Fw: A Little Politics with my Millennium0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Mon, 3 Jan 2000 13:51:33 EST113_us-ascii This came to me from another list; reposted with permission. I thought it was interesting.

Debbie 418 33 31_Re: Something totally different12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:36:16 -0600 (CST)522_us-ascii I am a Jew who is a person of color. I was shopping for rugs lately, and the fabric that seems to be the closest to my color is called "eggshell taupe". I hope this helps. Feel free to contact me at any time.



>Hi everybody, >I came up in Habonim. My name is Shahanna and I went to machaneh Tavor for 6 >years through MB86 (which was at Tavor at the time of course). I am in the >process of doing some diversity work in my community and need your help >getting in touch with other Jews who are [...] 452 44 42_Re: Addition to "Is Halloween commercial?"12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:39:07 -0600 (CST)345_us-ascii Anyone who saw that episode of the Practice and didn't see the strains of European antisemitism coming front and center (Jews will do or excuse anything for money; Jews plot and plan around tables in darkened rooms; Jews manipulate the system for their own greedy ends), needs a lesson in the history of antisemitism.antisemitism. [...] 497 37 17_Re:: Talk and Y2K0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Mon, 3 Jan 2000 14:43:56 EST597_us-ascii I kind of wish *something* had happened at the first stroke of midnight (on that Island that was supposed to have the first 2000 sunrise). Nothing extremely horrific or extremely terrific, just a little sign of some kind -- the appearance of an uncharted comet, a 5 minute earth-wide electrical failure, an eerie chorus of all of earth's dogs, wolves, donkeys, etc. moving around the world with the sun -- some action to be blamed on/credited to coincidence, HaShem, HAL the computer, Mother Nature, or one of the other usual suspects, for taking a moment to humor the humans simply [...] 535 25 31_Re: Something totally different12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:40:38 -0600 (CST)381_us-ascii Jews who are "people of color"? Gee, I thought we were one people. At least that's what people kept telling me when I was in habonim.

Dov



>Oopsie I meant MB 87. Anyway, one more thing: if you are a jew who claims >European heritage but are interested in doing diversity work in the Jewish >community, you can get involved too of course! > > > > [...] 561 31 20_Re: Amnon I am sorry12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:42:29 -0600 (CST)544_us-ascii Gee, Bethie,

I try to do the right thing. What wrong things have I done that you know of? Please tell me, and i will try to correct my ways.

Dov

>sam, >i do believe that a silent majority exists: yet we do not have to prove it >on the habonet...some of us are dealing with immediate life and death issues >and do not have the time or inclination to try and convince our own chevre. >Luckily you guys are battling it out for us to perview....dont worry. when >push comes to shove, most of us will do the right [...] 593 121 35_Re: Significant victory in Knesset!12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:51:17 -0600 (CST)665_iso-8859-1 There is an interesting exchange on the last page of the most recent Jerusalem Report regarding the proposed highway. The person supporting the highway, who said that societal needs and conservation could be balanced, made some pretty convincing arguments. People might want to read the article.

Dov

>Chevre, Shalom! > >This is what Zionism is about today. Fighting to make Israel the best >country possible. This one is a biggie. It affects the quality of life for >everyone. > >Chaver Steve >----------------------------------- > > >Subject: Significant victory in Knesset! Trans Israel Highway Protest Update >No 11 > Date: Tue, 21 [...] 715 36 17_Re: beth's remark12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 13:53:01 -0600 (CST)602_us-ascii Dear Pearl,

Don't worry. I still love Beth (I have for over 30 years), and I gotta believe that deep down inside she still loves me, even if I haven't drifted into the ulta-left.

Dov

>beth,, >It seems the height of arrogance to say that ...'we will do the right >thing (barring Dov, of course)....' >How can anyone be so sure that he is 100% right and that someone else >is 100% wrong? Why can't you accept that maybe, just maybe, he could >be right and you wrong? >I think that your remark is insulting to Dov. >pearl >------------------------------------- >E-mail: [...] 752 34 33_Re: And I Dance When I Can't Talk12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:30:55 -0600 (CST)498_us-ascii I have never met anyone who didn't like Sam's songs. I still remember with great fondness sitting in Gesher Haziv and helping Sam (along with Abba Caspi) make the first tape of his songs. My son, Micha, also a musician, tells me that Sam is now a superb musician. I am certain that he is far more sophisticated and accomplished than he was when we were recording that first album, but my heart is still tied to those old songs. I still find myself singing them all these years later. [...] 787 32 36_Re: And I Dance When I Can't Talk #112_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:33:55 -0600 (CST)587_us-ascii Sanctimonious



>In a message dated 12/23/99 11:11:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, >Smfgrappa@aol.com writes: > ><< All of our energy has been consumed > answering Dov and Pearl and Sussie and there is no air time left to think of > a positive joing future as Progressive Zionists >> > >I really resent your grouping us as if we are criminals and insinuating that >we drain all of your positive energy as if you are the only one around with >valid opinions. And could you please learn to spell my name right??? >(Aren't you a Ph.D??)After all, we have known each [...] 820 80 9_Re: sicha12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 14:51:15 -0600 (CST)441_us-ascii Lonnie's call for a rethinking of labor principles is interesting and timely. Socialism is just about dead (apparently because it didn't work too well), and this includes the kibbutz movement. The kibbutzim are still there, but one only need read the article about Gesher Haziv in a recent Jerusalem Post to know that its move toward privatization looks almost nothing like what represented traditional Labor Zionist ideology. [...] 901 19 31_Re: Something totally different0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:22:53 EST471_us-ascii I know several "Black Jews" or "Jews who have African ancestry". The most famous is Prof. Julius Lester of the Judaic Studies Dept. at UMass-Amherst. His book is called "Windsong". Write to him or call information, Amherst, Mass. Incidentally, Bill Cosby also lives in Amherst. I know others but I am rushed now. Stay in touch, Shahhama--The relationship between Blacks and Jews is very deep. I am writing about it.--Prof. Jack Nusan Porter (UMass-Lowell). [...] 921 17 31_Re: Something totally different0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Mon, 3 Jan 2000 16:24:45 EST481_us-ascii P.S. Shahhana--I also went to Tavor but from 1958 to l966. I am 55 years old. How old are you? There is even a magazine on Black-Jewish relations put out by the American Jewish Committee. Contact a local branch or national AJC in NYC--Shalom, Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 939 36 42_Re: Addition to "Is Halloween commercial?"0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Mon, 3 Jan 2000 17:32:51 EST396_us-ascii Dov,

Studying the history of European anti-semitism isn't often a prerequisite for a script-writing job. So, if the writers of The Practice were using their own 20-something imaginations to come up with characteristics for their villian, is anti-semitism an innate characteristic? Do you think they'd have any idea what you were talking about if you brought it up with them? [...] 976 28 17_A bit of nonsense16_Miriam Bernhardt24_miriam_b@neve-ilan.co.il31_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 00:58:33 +0200522_us-ascii In re all of the noise about the year 2000, how many of you thought about the question of whether this New Year's would have been special if we had a number system based on some number other than 10. I rather unsuccessfully tried to confuse my grandchildren on the whole idea. Do you all remember the Tom Lehrer song about new math, including pointing out that "if G-d had had eight fingers, we'd have a number system based on eight?" His other appropriate song for Y2K would have been "Be Prepared." Miriam [...] 1005 44 31_Re: Something totally different0_16_Shahanna@aol.com28_Mon, 3 Jan 2000 20:41:07 EST574_us-ascii Dov, Well, we are certainly one people but people of European heritage, Jewish or not, get (some degree of) white privilege and people who are "nonwhite," Jewish or not, are targeted by racism. I prefer the term people of color to the term nonwhite. Of course these are all social identities that have nothing to do with reality. But as racism has not yet been eliminated and "whiteness" still exists, we need to be working hard to eliminate this form of oppression. Shahanna PS Thanks Jackie, I am in touch with Professor Lester and my mom is the director of [...] 1050 31 26_Shepherdstown, WV and Food11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 22:31:15 -0500584_us-ascii ear Chevre--

In Shepherdstown, W.V., a town that has probably rarely seen a garlic clove in it's midst, what do you think Barak and Shara are eating?? Do you think that Clinton purposefully picked a site with the bleakest, most pork-ladened possible cuisine to prove to the Israelis and Syrians that they do have interests in common or merely to keep everyone from sneaking into town for a midnight nosh? I understand that both delegations left their cellphones behind--thereby negating the possibility of ordering pizzas while locked in late night negotiations. [...] 1082 59 31_Re: Something totally different5_Batel25_batel_libes@earthlink.net31_Mon, 03 Jan 2000 20:03:20 -0800449_us-ascii Hi, I certainly agree with Shahanna, as yes, though we are all one people, there are definitely a color distinction, sad as it may be. Dov, if you don't agree, just look at Israel and you'll see the difference there at all levels of society. I grew up in Northern Tel Aviv, and if it were not for serving in the military, there are many faction of this "colorless" society I would have most likely had limited exposure to in my youth. [...] 1142 27 30_Re: Shepherdstown, WV and Food11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 08:54:52 -0500375_us-ascii Dear Judy,

Actually the people I know from Shepherdstown are quite garlic aware. There is even at least one Habonim alum in the area - Bonnie Sitman.

Noam

Judy Gelman wrote:

> ear Chevre-- > > In Shepherdstown, W.V., a town that has probably rarely seen a garlic > clove in it's midst, what do you think Barak and Shara are eating?? [...] 1170 22 30_Re: Shepherdstown, WV and Food0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:03:26 EST493_us-ascii Having lived in WV for three years, and with a daughter who had a summer experience in Shepherdstown, I can assure you that there IS garlic. There is a coffee shop with GREAT raspberry mochas, a variety of shops, and now Shepherdstown is almost a bedroom community for suburban DC. It's a beautiful little town, and I would suggest that all those stereotypes of that state be left behind. Even in the hinterlands of Gassaway (in the middle of the state), they have Chinese food! [...] 1193 18 31_Re: Something totally different0_13_JLCAA@aol.com28_Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:06:50 EST319_us-ascii Shahanna:

Are you the same Geverat McKinney that used to teach at MJDS?

Avi Lyon

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1212 35 35_More of Something totally different0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:44:15 EST638_us-ascii Shahanna,

There is(was?) a black Jewish artist named Joseph Nassy whose work was displayed here at the Holocaust Museum. Unfortunately it was before my time, but if you're interested I can hook you up with the keeper of the Artists Registry who may be able to give you more information.

Also, are you familiar with the organization "Kulanu"? It's a group that's involved with "unexpected" Jewish communities, such as the Peruvian Indian tribe that converted enmass, the Ugandan community that converted in the early 1900s, Jews in various parts of Africa with ancient roots (DNA tests connected one group with [...] 1248 17 30_Re: Shepherdstown, WV and Food0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:48:59 EST393_us-ascii I used to go out with a guy whose parents moved out there. I think they had to go all the way to Frederick, Maryland for bagels, challah, and kosher wine!

Rachel

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1266 24 31_Re: Something totally different0_16_Shahanna@aol.com28_Tue, 4 Jan 2000 10:51:17 EST441_us-ascii Yes! It's me! Hi!

In a message dated 1/4/2000 9:07:54 AM Central Standard Time, JLCAA@aol.com writes:

<< Shahanna:

Are you the same Geverat McKinney that used to teach at MJDS?

Avi Lyon >>

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1291 49 33_Help with words to song Haleluyah0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:07:57 EST358_us-ascii Chevre, Shalom!

I have two Hebrew versions of the words to Halleluyah. Which is correct? There are two diversions.

First, at the end of the first verse, one version uses the words "v'omer gam hu eyzeh olam nifla"

v'omer - vav, aleph, vav, mem, resh

The other version uses the words "veholem gam hu eyzeh olam nifla" [...] 1341 33 37_Re: Help with words to song Haleluyah13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com30_Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:23:42 -0500363_iso-8859-1 >veholem - vav, hey, vav, lamed, mem sofit > >v'omer? veholem? Says? Dreams? Which is right?



veholem, spelled as you say (with 'hey') means Beats (not Dreams, which would have been spelled with 'het'), and this is the correct version, I think.

>yomru - yud, aleph, mem, resh, vav > >yir'u? - yomru? See? Say? Which is right? [...] 1375 44 42_Re: Addition to "Is Halloween commercial?"12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:44:14 -0600 (CST)620_us-ascii The show was full of anitsemitic stereotypes and I thing the ADL was right to protest. That's all I'm saying.

Dov

>Dov, > >Studying the history of European anti-semitism isn't often a prerequisite for >a script-writing job. So, if the writers of The Practice were using their own >20-something imaginations to come up with characteristics for their villian, >is anti-semitism an innate characteristic? Do you think they'd have any idea >what you were talking about if you brought it up with them? > >I wonder what you see on the many occasions when a tv character isn't >identified as Jewish [...] 1420 55 31_Re: Something totally different12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:48:14 -0600 (CST)629_us-ascii Shahanna,

White jews are also targets of racism, aren't they?

Dov





>Dov, >Well, we are certainly one people but people of European heritage, Jewish or >not, get (some degree of) white privilege and people who are "nonwhite," >Jewish or not, are targeted by racism. I prefer the term people of color to >the term nonwhite. Of course these are all social identities that have >nothing to do with reality. But as racism has not yet been eliminated and >"whiteness" still exists, we need to be working hard to eliminate this form >of oppression. >Shahanna >PS Thanks Jackie, I am in [...] 1476 73 31_Re: Something totally different12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 15:53:25 -0600 (CST)607_us-ascii Dear Batel,

I agree with you. The distinctions may among Jews in israel is shocking, painful, and inexcusable. that is why I have grave reservations about separating people (including Jewish people) into groups based upon such irrelevant distinctions as skin color.

Dov

>Hi, >I certainly agree with Shahanna, as yes, though we are all one people, there are >definitely a color distinction, sad as it may be. Dov, if you don't agree, just >look at Israel and you'll see the difference there at all levels of society. I >grew up in Northern Tel Aviv, and if it were not for [...] 1550 17 23_Re: HABONET digest 140112_Judith Tumin18_judith@heschel.org31_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 17:07:47 -0500330_ISO-8859-1 Abba's piece was beautiful and the Hebrew came through clear and strong. Thank you.

Judith Tumin

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1568 28 30_Re: Shepherdstown, WV and Food0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:38:50 -0500526_us-ascii

Judy,

You are assuming that they require Kosher food.

My husband & I can't afford to go very far & our idea of a good outing is Shepherdstown/Martinsburg. It's not hopping but it's very much a nice little college town with some nice restaurants (The Yellow Bank Restaurant, The Bavarian Inn) and Martinsburg has one of the best Italian restaurants we ever ate in (in which we ever ate?) Good antiquing and outlet shopping, too. When I read about the talks it struck me as a great location. [...] 1597 27 31_Re: Something totally different0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Tue, 04 Jan 2000 23:54:47 -0500595_us-ascii Dov-

Of course but come on, there's no comparison. I can walk down the street and I will not experience anything until it is somehow related, exposed, whatever, that I am Jewish. People of color can unfortunately experience racism in just walking down the same street.

The worst things I've personally experienced were in Vermont, some lesser but just as bothersome in my hometown of Baltimore, but isolated incidents are easy to get over. I think you minimize what non-white people go through. You can tell me you've been just as hurt by racism, but I don't buy it. [...] 1625 37 24_Re: trans-Israel highway12_Doug Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Wed, 05 Jan 2000 22:19:34 +0200605_us-ascii Dov,

The trans-Israel highway would link isolated towns with the country's center - except that's not where it's being built. Ben Gurion University's president criticized it because, at least in its first phase, it will not reach Beer Sheva, which would help spread the population and make the center accesible to outlying areas and vice versa. So it will just serve the central communities. It is planned as a toll road - just great for the poor people (a Knesset Member quipped that they ought to serve breakfast for the price they're going to charge).. And, of course, poor people [...] 1663 23 24_Re: L'zecher Moshe Kerem0_17_DLomb1145@aol.com28_Wed, 5 Jan 2000 15:55:08 EST478_us-ascii To Sue, and to Abba Caspi, a big todah rabbah,

Sue - Your poem/words remembering Moshe Kerem - thank you for putting into words how so many feel and felt about Moshe, and in Hebrew! He'd have appreciated that extra effort!

Abba, thank you, for the work involved getting the Hebrew out through email (so you're not just a pretty voice?) and for the initial posting about Moshe's death which still leaves such an awful heaviness and void.. Debbie Troy [...] 1687 16 24_Re: L'zecher Moshe Kerem0_15_Emabear@aol.com28_Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:15:06 EST404_us-ascii I've just come back online after a long time away from home. If anyone still has the posting about Moshe Kerem's death, could you please send them to my personal email. Thank you.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1704 16 17_Re: beth's remark0_18_Batamitroy@aol.com28_Wed, 5 Jan 2000 17:14:16 EST275_us-ascii Dearest Dov, I DO. and, nachon me'od... Love, Beth

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1721 32 31_Re: Something totally different0_16_RicoCohn@aol.com28_Wed, 5 Jan 2000 19:05:17 EST632_us-ascii In a message dated 1/4/00 11:16:21 PM Central Standard Time, Dov writes:

<< Shahanna,

White jews are also targets of racism, aren't they?

Dov >>

When I read this garbage, I can't believe I'm on a progressive list. What's your point Dov? She never said that Jews as a people are not victims of racism/antisemititsm. Her post involved addressing issues specifically related to being Jewish and not white. Being Jewish and African American poses its own set of issues. Why don't you stay focused on solving problems and stop demeaning or minimizing what others are doing. Nobody wants to take [...] 1754 45 31_Re: Something totally different11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Thu, 06 Jan 2000 09:58:44 -0500559_us-ascii In issues of racism, silence is death; those who are silent are murderers.

I deplore Dov's minimization and denial of the very real challenges faced by people of color. I laud those who have already spoken up here. I call upon all who are offended to make a statement.

Mark

At 07:05 PM 1/5/2000 EST, you wrote: >In a message dated 1/4/00 11:16:21 PM Central Standard Time, Dov writes: > ><< Shahanna, > > White jews are also targets of racism, aren't they? > > Dov > >> > >When I read this garbage, I can't believe I'm on a [...] 1800 18 31_Re: Something totally different0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 11:55:03 EST278_us-ascii To Mark Hammel

I second the motion.

Sam

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 1819 40 36_Re: And I Dance When I Can't Talk #111_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:09:13 -0500384_us-ascii Not clear who you are talking about here Dov. Sue (who wrote the message you responded to)? Sam (who she was responding to)?

Or perhaps you decided to forego your usual blather and just getting to the heart of your message? :-)

Glad to see school is back in session so you can get on with your work. I for one missed being outraged daily by your messages. [...] 1860 62 9_Re: sicha11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:18:21 -0500498_us-ascii



Dov Liberman wrote:

> Lonnie's call for a rethinking of labor principles is interesting and > timely. Socialism is just about dead (apparently because it didn't work too > well), and this includes the kibbutz movement. The kibbutzim are still > there, but one only need read the article about Gesher Haziv in a recent > Jerusalem Post to know that its move toward privatization looks almost > nothing like what represented traditional Labor Zionist ideology. > [...] 1923 34 17_Re: beth's remark11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:25:42 -0500401_us-ascii Dov Liberman wrote:

> Dear Pearl, > > Don't worry. I still love Beth (I have for over 30 years), and I gotta > believe that deep down inside she still loves me, even if I haven't drifted > into the ulta-left. > > Dov >

Dear Dov,

It cracks me up that you and Pearl and Sue are so quick to take offense and yet feel so free to label and disparage the views of others. [...] 1958 27 43_Re: HABONET digest 1400 - again the censors11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:32:38 -0500318_us-ascii LiberHawke@aol.com wrote:

> Dear Steve- > Can we PLEASE stop this!!!!!! PLEASE!!!! YOU were not a "target" and I don''t > feel that you can comment on this---I WAS!--And I am in complete agreement > with PEARL and her feelings- since I felt that way! BUT PLEASE LET"S > STOP!!!!!! thank you...sue [...] 1986 32 24_Re: Selling Land To Jews11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 06 Jan 2000 14:35:30 -0500323_us-ascii



"Martin J. Goodman" wrote:

> 23 December 1999 > > In HaBonet Digest 1395, Pearl writes: > > > Read the Hebrew papers here .... there is a law that Arabs are not allowed to > > sell land to Jews .... > > Pearl is correct about what the Israeli press reports about the PA in this regard. [...] 2019 26 9_Re: sicha0_15_DebALev@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:43:54 EST414_us-ascii In a message dated 1/6/00 7:20:39 PM !!!First Boot!!!, n.stopak@scienceserver.com writes:

<< > Radical feminism castigates males > as evil. >>



When I saw this, I just decided it was pointless to discuss anything with you, Dov. You just don't get any of this, do you? Environmentalism, feminism (and I'll wait for you to define "radical" feminism, of course). racism, etc. Sigh. [...] 2046 134 30_Equality in Tzahal - an issue?0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 15:03:58 EST503_us-ascii Chevre, Shalom!

I would appreciate hearing opinions from chevre on the attached Op-Ed from today's Ha'aretz. Does anyone know Rabbi Yuval Sherlo?

Chaver Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, January 6, 2000

Guest opinion

An army any longer?

Combat units that mix men and women deviate from the most essential principles of the soldier committed to observe halacha

By Rabbi Yuval Sherlo [...] 2181 21 31_Re: Something totally different0_14_BUBELE@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:01:06 EST404_us-ascii Listening to Dov's inane characterizationsaround "issues of color", I protest what you are stating AND implying. It is difficult to believe that you truly believe what you are saying. I find you incredible! On the other hand, perhaps you've decided to reason like a modern Chelm-ite! You ought to be decent enough to apologize to Shahanna for your nonsensical and insulting statements, Dov [...] 2203 23 31_Re: Something totally different0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:13:40 EST364_us-ascii <> Dov

Hi,

Perhaps Dov meant 'castrates' rather than 'castigates' [ an honest mistake anyone could make]and maybe the poor guy suffered some serious loss at the hands of an outlaw group of rad fems that we don't know about. If that's the case...then compassion rather than derision might be in order. [...] 2227 19 5_CAJM?0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 16:37:56 EST312_us-ascii I've just gotten permission to go to the Conference of American Jewish Museums 1/23-26 in Scottsdale, Arizona, one of the most interesting and hamish museum conferences of the year. Is anyone else going or know someone who is going? Is there anything I should be sure to see while I'm in the area? [...] 2247 15 17_Re: beth's remark0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 19:36:06 EST285_us-ascii

Please leave my name out of all of this...Thnaks.sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 2263 20 24_Re: L'zecher Moshe Kerem0_17_JackNusan@aol.com28_Thu, 6 Jan 2000 22:11:45 EST483_us-ascii Yes, emahbear, and to me too. If anyone has an English language obituary notice, please email it to me immediately or fax it to me at (617) 964-3971. The Forward has asked me to write a short obituary on Moshe Kerem, and I need basic facts quickly--when, where, family, career highlights, etc. Short, simple facts. Todah Rabbah.--Thanx, my best, Jack Nusan (Jackie) Porter at 35 Webster Street, Suite 4, West Newton, Mass. 02465 (new address) and phone (617) 965-8388. [...] 2284 21 49_Re: And now for Something Completely Different...0_16_RicoCohn@aol.com28_Fri, 7 Jan 2000 00:40:42 EST614_us-ascii I was surprised to find an email advising me that my response to Dov's comments were inappropriate, a flame. I have not responded to recent controversy so as not to be redundant; however, comments such as those in recent posts by Dov attack, demean and undermine efforts of others to address important problems which promote division and oppression. I'm not interested in a back and forth argument via this forum and will refrain from additional posts re: Dov's remarks. On the other hand, I am heartened that others have also express their disgust with these inappropriate and insensitive comments. [...] 2306 84 14_My Little Town12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Fri, 07 Jan 2000 16:03:26 +0200568_iso-8859-1 Haverot/im When I posted Bialik's "After My Death" as a remembrance of Moshe Kerem I didn't realize what a rush of musical notes would burst from the confines of 'he had one song more.' Yesterday Rivka and I drove to Gesher Haziv for Moshe's shloshim. Israel's two year drought came to thundering end and it rained like God forgot the rainbow, his pledge to Noah, to both of them actually, that there would be no more floods. Both the pledge and its breech, are of course what lit crit teachers like to call the pathetic fallacy, a tendency to ascribe [...] 2391 81 6_Racism11_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Fri, 07 Jan 2000 15:24:33 -0500484_us-ascii Dear Dov-

I know that you meant your comment about being "taupe" as a joke. And you are also correct that there is still prejudice against Jews as a religion and against East European or Moroccan Jews based on ethnicity as well.

Your choice of the word 'rascism' is unfortunate because of course Jews are not a racial group. Jews are a people who share a religion and religiously based culture and history that is influenced by their nations of residence. [...] 2473 168 34_Re: Equality in Tzahal - an issue?0_17_Smfgrappa@aol.com28_Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:42:43 EST633_us-ascii In a message dated 00-01-06 15:05:02 EST, you write:

<< Guest opinion

An army any longer?

Combat units that mix men and women deviate from the most essential principles of the soldier committed to observe halacha

By Rabbi Yuval Sherlo

As it wrestled with the question of whether it should become an integral element of the state of Israel, religious Zionism moved to determine its basic attitude toward army service. Such service came to be seen not as a necessary evil imposed by a gentile ruler, but rather as a normative element in a religious world view; defending and fortifying [...] 2642 20 18_Re: My Little Town0_15_AvivaMT@aol.com28_Sat, 8 Jan 2000 00:44:15 EST294_us-ascii beautiful, amnon.

my son, noah, is in your town as i write. he is an interesting, bright, sensitive young man, and i will ask him to stop by and give you a hug if he is not too uncomfortable. send me your phone number. kind of my way of keeping that mandela rolling. aviva [...] 2663 26 10_Re: Racism12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sat, 08 Jan 2000 21:49:59 +0200608_us-ascii Judy, It's remarkable what you can learn about people on Habonet if you just wait until various aspects of their personalities surface. You find that chevre you never met are nice and that you wish you knew more about them. That's the impression I've gotten of you. And then bam. It comes out that there's an objective correlative to your niceness. Two Hebrew expressions come to mind: tocho ke-baro (one's inside is mirrored by one's demeanor,) and naeh doresh v-naeh mekayem (aptly said and judiciously carried out.)What comes out about your family and yourself is that you practice what you [...] 2690 24 15_Vocolot in L.A.16_Linda Hirschhorn18_vocolot@sirius.com31_Sat, 08 Jan 2000 19:00:19 -0700508_us-ascii Dear friends come see Vocolot(my a cappella group the weekend of Feb 11-13.) Friday night we will be at Kehilath Israel in Pacific Palisades starting at 8 P.M. Saturday night we will be singing at Pepperdine University in Malibu . Call Shira Schwartz at (310)456-2178 for tickets and information. Sunday afternoon we will be down in Orange County at Temple Beth El in Aliso Viejo . Concert starts at 4 P.M. Call (949) 362-3999 for tickets and information. Hope to see you there- come say hello [...] 2715 22 9_Re: sicha0_15_Emabear@aol.com28_Sat, 8 Jan 2000 21:02:29 EST574_us-ascii It occurred to me, during the quiet moments of Shabbat that we Jews have always practiced a very effective method of getting our "point" across. We have boycotted. We have boycotted companies that don't sell to Israel, who don't hire minorities. We have boycotted countries who do not sell Israeli products, etc. I propose that we now take it upon ourselves to boycott Dov's messages. Perhaps if his sarcasm, his baiting, and just poor taste are ignored he will either change or go away. If not, I for one will continue to hit the delete button when I see his [...] 2738 64 9_RE: sicha14_Martin Skolnik15_emskol@wans.net30_Sat, 8 Jan 2000 21:48:36 -0500564_iso-8859-1

> -----Original Message----- > Subject: Re: sicha > > > It occurred to me, during the quiet moments of Shabbat that we Jews have > always practiced a very effective method of getting our "point" > across. We > have boycotted. We have boycotted companies that don't sell to > Israel, who > don't hire minorities. We have boycotted countries who do not > sell Israeli > products, etc. > I propose that we now take it upon ourselves to boycott Dov's messages. > Perhaps if his sarcasm, his baiting, and just poor taste are > ignored he will > [...] 2803 224 39_[Fwd: Fwd: From Rhea and Allan Feldman]12_Alan Barland19_abarland@abdata.com31_Sat, 08 Jan 2000 21:48:08 -060017_us-ascii

3028 26 30_Re: Shepherdstown, WV and Food0_18_Judithb253@aol.com28_Sun, 9 Jan 2000 00:55:32 EST577_us-ascii But when we used to drive my brother to Sheppard College in 1954 -it was REALLY like entering another world. First, there was no super highway - you went over the mountains and/or around them. The only places to eat really were greasy spoons where you could play 'It wasn't God who made Honky-tonk Angels' on a real juke-box, and it was hard work to find much really edible. Real kashrut would have been either tuna or peanut buter sandwiches (yeh, I know, real kashrut would have breought along a picnic lunch). But there were always friendly people (let's hope [...] 3055 24 27_Re: sicha-- over-reactions!0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Sun, 9 Jan 2000 02:18:41 EST560_us-ascii Dear Chevre- I am really shocked at all of the overreactions and name-calling and attacks - by everyone. "Boycotting" " one of our own " ( and suggesting a boycott on Shabbat??? OY!!!) is in effect a censorship which I think is against everything we have been taught in America and in Habonim.Anyone who knows Dov knows that he does much of his taunting as tongue-in-cheek and much of his communicating is meant to elicit responses ( which he has obviously succeeded in doing). If he has hurt anyone, I am sure it was not done on purpose, but to [...] 3080 30 17_In Praise of Rhea0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Sun, 9 Jan 2000 02:34:26 EST567_us-ascii

Dear Rhea and Allan and other Chevrei-Meshek of Gesher Haziv-(whoever reads this) I want to thank you for standing up for your lives and your changing lifestyle. When I first heard about the changes going on in the kibbutz, and the painful process of privitization, I was shocked and saddened, since I have said many times before, I always had a place for the "old" GH in a little section of my heart-- the GH I remembered. But since time has passed, and I have grown to understand a lot more, I want to congratulate your courage to change, and [...] 3111 131 13_privatization13_Moshe Sheskin24_sheskin@barak-online.net30_Sun, 9 Jan 2000 15:44:27 +0200613_windows-1255 To Sue

In your letter "In Praise of Rhea", you are obviously in favor of the privatization process which is being carried on, not only by Gesher Haziv but many other kibbutzim. This process however, is not the result of a desire to be a new kind of chalutz but in my opinion, a desperate means to achieve economic independence. Therefore, if privatization is successful, I can only assume that throughout all these years, Gesher Haziv, my kibbutz and the many others that have instituted or will be introducing privatization, have been living a lie. The effect of privatization, although [...] 3243 30 80_"the real rest of Israel" - a question from the new/old -leftist- socialist-bund11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 09 Jan 2000 09:43:24 -0500469_us-ascii Sue,

In one message you say "I am really shocked at all of the overreactions and name-calling ... can we please stop????" and in the next "I know I will be excommunicated from the new/old -leftist- socialist-bund".

Bravo!

Can you explain what you are getting at when you say Gesher Haziv has "opened up to the real rest of Israel"? Are you implying that Gesher Haziv before the recent changes was not part of reality or Israel or ??? [...] 3274 56 17_Re: privatization12_AviRosenberg18_avi@gezernet.co.il31_Sun, 09 Jan 2000 17:30:17 +0200604_us-ascii At 15:44 2000-01-09 +0200, you wrote: > To Sue In your letter "In Praise of Rhea", you are obviously in favor >of the privatization process which is being carried on, not only by Gesher >Haziv but many other kibbutzim. This process however, is not the result of >a desire to be a new kind of chalutz but in my opinion, a desperate means >to achieve economic independence. Therefore, if privatization is >successful, I can only assume that throughout all these years, Gesher >Haziv, my kibbutz and the many others that have instituted or will be >introducing privatization, have been living [...] 3331 42 17_Re: privatization0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com28_Sun, 9 Jan 2000 11:26:11 EST520_us-ascii

To Moshe, Avi and Noam- When I was living on Gesher HaZiv- one of the things that often struck me was the fact that none of the "kids" knew what a loaf of bread cost, or how much one had to work in order to go out and buy a pair of shoes. It wasn't a "failure"- but actually a "philosophy" that bothered me. It was very comfortable not to go to "outside" or to development towns and ignore what the "rest of Israel"was doing- One could make that choice- get up- go to work, come home and bake pies [...] 3374 72 37_Re: HABONET digest 1411My Little Town12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Sun, 09 Jan 2000 21:59:22 +0200530_iso-8859-1



Rhea, I didn't realize that we were brogez nor did it occur to me that you do not subscribe to habonet and that it explained why your voice and Alan's aren't heard in our discussions; so that you had to take the tortuous path of Rozzie as a go between. If I offended you, I'm genuinely sorry. As sorry as I am about what has come to pass in Gesher Haziv and to it. And I suspect that as the Freudians and Marxists used to preface their remarks "it is no accident that…! " Is it an ACCIDENT that so [...] 3447 121 36_FW: [WS] THE GOLAN BELONGS TO ISRAEL0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Sat, 5 Jan 80 01:28:26 PST597_ISO-8859-1 Thought this might be of interest to our list:

--- > _______________________________________________________________ > THE GOLAN BELONGS TO ISRAEL > by HMAVERIK@aol.com > > The Honorable Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel: > > (MEPF) The Middle East Political Forum applauds your declaration of "NO" on > four counts: > NO return to 1967 borders, > NO division of Jerusalem, > NO right of return, > NO evacuation of the settlements. > > However, there is one more NO that must be adhered to...NO GIVING UP OF THE > GOLAN. > > The Golan Heights were part and parcel of the [...] 3569 29 44_Re: CAJM? and things to see/do in Scottsdale0_17_Geokat100@aol.com29_Mon, 10 Jan 2000 08:17:13 EST506_us-ascii Rachel,

I don't know how much free time or what sort of transportation you'll have, but about an hour north of Scottsdale/Phoenix is Paolo Soleri's Arcosanti, a community based on the theory of arcology (architecture and ecology). I know the goal is for it to be entirely self-sufficent but I'm not sure it's there yet. In any case, the architecture is fascinating, as is the philosophy, and the restaurant's not bad, either. (The road from the highway to Arcosanti was pretty rough). [...] 3599 16 44_Re: CAJM? and things to see/do in Scottsdale0_15_Emabear@aol.com29_Mon, 10 Jan 2000 09:51:05 EST419_us-ascii The road is rough by the journey is worth it. Very ineresting. Leave time to explore. When we were there weveral years ago we weren't sure what to expect so we did not leave enough time to tour.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 3616 86 22_Negotiation Strategies17_Martin J. Goodman25_mgoodman@netvision.net.il31_Mon, 10 Jan 2000 20:54:12 +0200569_us-ascii 10 January 2000

Long ago, when I studied G'mara, I was certain that I would never remember or apply what I had learned.

None-the-less, as negotiations proceed with Syria, the first Mishnah of tractate Baba Metzia comes annoyingly to mind:

[CASE A] "" Two [individuals appear in court] holding a Tallit. One individual states "I found it" and the other individual states "I found it." One states "It [i.e., the Tallit] is all mine." and the other individual states "It is all mine." ..... And they divide it [i.e., the Tallit evenly]. [...] 3703 73 23_Re: HABONET digest 141312_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 11 Jan 2000 18:55:09 +0200502_us-ascii A few comments regarding the clipping: >The Golan Belongs to Israel and Rabin shrank >from pressing the claim. First: expansionist hasbarah people ought to avoid mantras that sound like they are based on the Three No's of Khartoum. It makes them sound like unreconstructed, me-too, PLO retreads:~) NO return to 1967 borders, NO division of Jerusalem, NO right of return, NO evacuation of the settlements. However, there is one more NO that must be adhered to...NO GIVING UP OF THE GOLAN. [...] 3777 35 32_20th workshop Urim alumni sought14_Billie Stevens19_bsgsphd@hotmail.com29_Thu, 13 Jan 2000 11:12:59 EST389_-





I am looking for current names / addresses / phone numbers etc. of anyone who was with me on the 20th workshop (1970-71) at Kibbutz Urim. I am doing this primarily for the Habonim/Dror Foundation but also for my own personal interest & amusement. Please send e-mail if you or someone you know was on this workshop. If you know email, send that also/instead. [...] 3813 21 44_26th workshop and Mosh KM 1974 alumni sought11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:43:27 -0500327_us-ascii Taking a page from Bille Stevens' book...

I'm trying to assemble data on alumni from the 26th workshop (both Gesher Haziv and Grofit) and from KM Bet 1974 at Mosh for the Habonim Dror Foundation. I believe I have a complete listing of names, but am short on contact info. If you're out there, let me know. [...] 3835 27 17_golan, peace, etc11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:49:33 -0500523_us-ascii

Lots of coverage of protests against any territorial compromise in the Golan in the Washington Post these days. I'd appreciate hearing any personal feelings or experiences that chevre in Israel care to share.

There was also an interesting op-ed piece few days ago calling into question the intentions of both the PA and Syria which cited some provocative statements in the "official press". Nothing we haven't heard before but certainly a reminder of the need for caution in dealing with them. [...] 3863 59 23_Prague cemetery dispute8_aminadav20_aminadav@urim.org.il31_Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:18:24 +0200451_iso-8859-1 The dispute over the cemetery uncovered while construction was going on seems to have been settled by an agreement between the Rabbi of the Prague community and the insurance company. Now, according to today's Jerusalem Post, other rabbis and authorities in Israel and other countries are disputing the settlement. Information about the proposed agreement may be obtained by contacting Rabbi Karol Sidon at sidon@kehilaprag.cz Yehuda Riemer 3923 413 41_bike ride / seattle to DC this summer :-)14_Albert Kaufman18_AlbertK@acadio.com31_Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:59:45 -0800588_iso-8859-1 A friend of mine is helping organize this cross-country bike trip with a bunch o' Jews. I'm thinking about going. If you're interested, contact them directly.

Albert Kaufman Seattle



the ride meets in seattle on june 7th and actually leaves on june 11th, and we plan to arrive in dc on aug 27th. we'll average about 60 miles a day which i'm told - by those fitter than i! - is not an incredibly aggressive day, if one has done pre-season training. the idea is to have spare capacity for the wider purposes of the ride - teaching, speaking, happenings [...] 4337 17 45_Re: bike ride / seattle to DC this summer :-)0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Thu, 13 Jan 2000 23:49:01 EST301_us-ascii Would love to join you but I did the trip by car this last summer but in reverse--BOSTON TO SEATTLE AND THEN DOWN TO LA AND BACK TO BOSTON. Hope you all can come to Boston. Good luck on the trip--(I'm 55 by the way--so a trip like that is a bit too strnuous at my age. Jack Nusan Porter [...] 4355 26 27_Re: sicha-- over-reactions!0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Fri, 14 Jan 2000 01:19:44 EST508_us-ascii Yes, I agree with Sue. I have been turned off as have many others by the tone of the discussion. Dov needs to tell people that he is making fun. The problem is that he makes his remarks to people who do not know him such as the young woman who asked for leads on Blacks and Jews. I was taken aback by Dov's response until I was told that Dov is "speaking" tongue-in-cheek_. I didn't know that and I kind of know Dov plus I'm 55 years old and a kind of "elder". But unless people get more civil [...] 4382 38 27_Re: sicha-- over-reactions!12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:39:32 -0600 (CST)561_us-ascii Dear Jack,

Bless you for understanding. We are the same age. I guess it's a generation thing.

B'vracha, Dov



>Yes, I agree with Sue. I have been turned off as have many others by the tone >of the discussion. Dov needs to tell people that he is making fun. The >problem is that he makes his remarks to people who do not know him such as >the young woman who asked for leads on Blacks and Jews. I was taken aback by >Dov's response until I was told that Dov is "speaking" tongue-in-cheek_. I >didn't know that and I kind [...] 4421 77 11_FW: a death14_Martin Skolnik15_emskol@wans.net31_Fri, 14 Jan 2000 23:47:50 -0500523_iso-8859-1 Once again, I regret to be the bearer of sad news to those chevre of Orah Blaustein Maggen

-----Original Message----- From: Michael Maggen [mailto:maggen@netvision.net.il]

Subject: a death



We regret to announce the sudden death of Orah`s father Otto Blaustein (87 years old) on the 14 Jan. 2000 04:30AM in Hadasa hospital Jerusalem, the funeral & service will take a place in Jerusalem cemitery Sunday, 16 Jan.2000, 12:00PM. Tel. 02 6711894. Tel. mobile 053 779531, 053 779507. [...] 4499 34 27_talkin' 'bout my generation0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Sat, 15 Jan 2000 04:26:31 EST582_us-ascii <>?<>? Indeed! As a frequent contributer to Habonet who often writes <> with the express intension of <>, I hope I'm not anywhere near as hilarious as Dov apparently intends to be.

My enjoyment of Loudin Wainwright III, The Not Ready For Time Prime Players, and John Irving be damned; if Dov's style of humor will not be accessible to me for another 16 years, well, in the words of another batch of men of a certain age, "Things they do look awful cold I hope I die before I get old"* (just kidding, [...] 4534 26 12_Announcement14_Martin Skolnik15_emskol@wans.net31_Sat, 15 Jan 2000 14:33:11 -0500403_iso-8859-1 Once again, I am saddened with the task of alerting the chevre of Orah Blaustein Maggen...

We regret to announce the sudden death of Orah`s father Otto Blaustein (87 years old) on the 14 Jan. 2000 04:30AM in Hadasa hospital Jerusalem, the funeral & service will take a place in Jerusalem cemitery Sunday, 16 Jan.2000, 12:00PM. Tel. 02 6711894. Tel. mobile 053 779531, 053 779507. [...] 4561 45 9_Mosh 20000_14_cbma@erols.com31_Sun, 16 Jan 2000 18:58:49 -0500582_us-ascii The second M2k reunion planning meeting will be (fun, interesting, and if anything, overattended) at my house again this Sunday, January 23, at 7:30. You can e-mail me at cbma@erols.com or Tammy at moshava@aol.com.

Sunday, January 23 at 7:30 3822 Palmira Lane Silver Spring, MD 20906 *

If you couldn't make it last time, we had a pretty good turnout, but the more the merrier. We are still looking for representation from the 50's-60's chevre. The kind of event this will be is starting to come into focus and we will keep you all apprised of our plans. [...] 4607 98 91_Enrique E. Palacios for Alameda County Board of Education http:/ /www.netwiz.net/~palacios/14_Albert Kaufman18_AlbertK@acadio.com31_Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:16:01 -0800343_iso-8859-1 Hi folks,

Enrique is Mona Seliger's fine husband and he's a great guy. I have been contributing to his campaigns for the last couple of years and think he would make a fine Board of Education member.

Please take a look at his website and send him money if you'd like to support an excellent member of our family. [...] 4706 157 94_Re: Enrique E. Palacios for Alameda County Board of Education http://www.netwiz.net/~palacios/8_JON BAUM19_jonbaum@sasa.org.il31_Mon, 17 Jan 2000 20:00:07 +0200411_iso-8859-1 Albert, no offense, but why the hell would almost any of us give a damn who's on the local bored of education out there, let alone send him money? Because he's family? Get real. ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert Kaufman To: 'Habo Habo Net Net Net' Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 7:16 PM Subject: Enrique E. Palacios for Alameda County Board of Education http://www.netwiz.net/~palacios/ [...] 4864 105 41_Fwd: Fw: virus warnings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0_18_Batamitroy@aol.com29_Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:43:44 EST17_us-ascii

4970 18 13_11th Workshop0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:50:41 EST489_us-ascii Dear Chevre- I am trying to get together a current list of 11th- '61-is-fun Workshop chevre for the Habonim office. If you get this, could you please e-mail me privately with your name, e-mail and snail address and phone number???? Thanks--Sue (liberhawke@aol.com)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 4989 37 38_Re: Mona Seliger & her husband Enrique0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:14:22 EST383_us-ascii

In a message dated 1/18/00 12:07:54 AM, Jon Baum writes to habonet@shamash.org:

<< Albert, no offense, but why the hell would almost any of us give a damn who's on the local bored of education out there, let alone send him money? Because he's family? Get real. >>

Jon, Shalom!

Call me sentimental. Call me an idealist. Call me an activist. [...] 5027 21 23_Re: HABONET digest 141912_Judith Tumin18_judith@heschel.org31_Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:26:08 -0500511_ISO-8859-1 I've been assigned by HAbonim Dror Foundation with getting current addresses and vitae on the people from my KM Bet (Tel Ari, 62). Don't have info on the following people: Rita Rosenbaum, Judy Gibion, Alice Polakoff, Martha and Marion Kellner, Barbara Blumgart, Judy Schottenfeld, Barbara Mankoff, David Schechter (currently in Israel), Freddie (no known last name) from Jersey City, Devorah Blotnick (also currently in Israel) Please send leads or contact info to . Thanks. [...] 5049 52 7_doctors12_nancy mimoun19_nmimoun@sunhill.com31_Tue, 18 Jan 2000 12:35:42 -0500242_iso-8859-1 Hi. My sister-in-law lives in Ashdod and needs a good, reputable natropathic physician. Does anyone know of someone I can refer her to? You can e-mail me directly at nmimoun@sunhill.com Thanks in advance for your help.

Nancy 5102 21 9_Mosh 200011_Judy Gelman16_gelman@erols.com31_Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:09:27 -0500384_us-ascii Der Shelley et al--

How can we be at your house and picking up our own kids form the Habonim ski trip at the same time?

Love- Judy Gelman



------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5124 25 17_Big Brother......0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:30:50 EST538_us-ascii It seems we are all looking for people!....I am looking for any info on the following chevre from the 11th Workshop: Annette Achter, Judy Barry, Rozzie Boxer, Margie Coven, Aaron Falcofsky, Bruce Fein,Phyllis Gilmore,Judy Glasner, Allan (Micha) Goldenberg, Gail Golub, Rachel Goodman, Lola Grynwald, Helen Hantman, Yoel Isaacson,Ozer Jacobson, Inez Jarrick, Davie Joftis, Sandy Kaplan, Michelle Kayne, Sherry Kovitz, Steve Klein, Dennis Lerner, Carole Levine, Miki Moore, Ann Peck, Sol Perel,Harriet Tilem, Celia Trauspiel. [...] 5150 26 21_Re: Big Brother......0_14_Ohanka@aol.com29_Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:50:51 EST431_us-ascii

In a message dated 1/18/00 11:31:58 PM, LiberHawke@aol.com writes:

<< I am looking for any info on the following chevre from the 11th Workshop: Annette Achter, Judy Barry, Rozzie Boxer, Margie Coven, Aaron Falcofsky, Bruce Fein,Phyllis Gilmore,Judy Glasner, Allan (Micha) Goldenberg, Gail Golub, Rachel Goodman, Lola Grynwald, Helen Hantman, Yoel Isaacson,Ozer Jacobson, Inez Jarrick, Davie Joftis, >> [...] 5177 42 21_Re: Big Brother......12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:40:02 -0600 (CST)425_us-ascii Dear Sue,

Lola died. Don't you rememvber that Avi Lyon came over and told us when we were living in Little Italy? Rozzie is living in Arizona--Phoenix, I think. If not there, then look in one of the other major cities in Arizona. I think she is using the name Boxer, but, just in case, her married name was Epstein. Many years ago Ann Peck lived in Boston (just after we left). She might still be there. [...] 5220 50 21_Re: Big Brother......12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Thu, 20 Jan 2000 08:57:34 -0600 (CST)553_us-ascii Gee, sorry for writng such personal things on Habonet. I meant the messaage to be a private one to Sue. the message was a private one



>Dear Sue, > >Lola died. Don't you rememvber that Avi Lyon came over and told us when we >were living in Little Italy? Rozzie is living in Arizona--Phoenix, I think. >If not there, then look in one of the other major cities in Arizona. I think >she is using the name Boxer, but, just in case, her married name was >Epstein. Many years ago Ann Peck lived in Boston (just after we left). She [...] 5271 29 40_Re: Fw: virus warnings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!8_aminadav20_aminadav@urim.org.il31_Thu, 20 Jan 2000 19:15:22 +0200669_iso-8859-1 Sorry, but all three virus warnings are hoaxes. It pays to check out these notices before passing them on. I suggest http://ciac.llnl.govt for a start. It's a site operated by the US Dept.. of Energy, and has a list of hoaxes, chain letters etc., also refers to other, similar sites, like http://komite.com/myths , http://www.datafelows.com/hoaxes et. al. So check out virus messages and report back, if necessary. Haval al ha-zman. Yehuda Riemer -----Original Message----- From: Batamitroy@aol.com To: habonet@shamash.org Date: éåí ùìéùé 18 éðåàø 2000 05:43 Subject: Fwd: Fw: virus warnings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [...] 5301 24 21_Re: Big Brother......0_18_Rachelbern@aol.com29_Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:36:43 EST530_us-ascii (Standard disclaimer: the following is simply a request for clarification, and is not meant to as a comment on the project to which I refer, or any persons involved in said project)

Are all the people who have written recently searching for specific workshops, etc., doing this at the request of Habonim-Dror central? If so (and I salute you!), is this any different than the previous requests for everyone on Habonet to send in names of any and every former Habo to the person organizing this major project? [...] 5326 19 21_Re: Big Brother......0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Thu, 20 Jan 2000 20:55:00 EST353_us-ascii Hi Rachel- Yes ( to answer your question)- I was asked by Sam Bergman who is helping Ezra from Habonim Dror conjure up a complete and updated list of Workshop Chevre. So I am working on getting a completed list from my workshop ( the 11th)...In the meantime, in the process of doing this, old friendships and new ideas have surfaced...Sue [...] 5346 24 21_Re: Big Brother......0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com29_Thu, 20 Jan 2000 21:00:56 EST462_us-ascii In a message dated 1/20/2000 5:37:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, Rachelbern@aol.com writes:

<< Rachelbern@aol.com >>

hi,

Hope you had a good trip to CA...next time try the other half. much more interesting.

marc

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5371 133 22_12th WKSHP info needed11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Fri, 21 Jan 2000 06:05:48 -0700 5505 277 12_Kvutza magic4_Ezra26_foundation@habonimdror.org31_Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:04:15 -0500513_iso-8859-1 Dear Habonet Community,



Shabbat shalom and Hag Sameach. I just returned from a TuB'shvat Seder/Shabbat Dinner at the Brooklyn Bayit. New York Habonim is back folks! And soon there will be new Batim in the California Bay Area and in Philadelphia. Aleh V'hagshem!

Then I returned to my apartment, checked my Email and I saw yet another chaver, Phil Safier, looking to find his kvutza via the Habonet Community. Rock on Habonet and thank you to all my Workshop kvutza captains! [...] 5783 15 16_Re: Kvutza magic0_15_Hamsa97@aol.com29_Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:35:05 EST337_us-ascii Ezra, I already sent stuff to noam stopak adI sent him what i had from the 26th workshop at Grofit-Miriam Derman

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5799 19 38_Re: Mona Seliger & her husband Enrique0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:10:46 EST430_us-ascii I've also ran for office--school committee, ward 6, Newton, Mass. It was fun. I got 2,000 votes; my opponent got 4,000 but I'll run again, even for Congress. Yes, I love running and more Jews should run! I'll be happy to share my experiences with anyone.--Jack Nusan Porter, 12th Workshop and Machon. I lived in Milwaukee then. By the way, Has anyone seen Eillen Ross of Tarzana, Calif. I'd like to call her. thanx. [...] 5819 21 16_Re: Kvutza magic0_18_Batamitroy@aol.com29_Sun, 23 Jan 2000 14:46:10 EST495_us-ascii dear ezra, we read your letter --- it was enthusiastic, exciting, inspiring --ya got the old habonim spirit....and we felt it! your beginning in the foundation really inspires hope for its growth and success. kol hakavod.

aleh uvneh! sidney shula and beth troy...

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5841 51 35_6th Workshop names & addresses list0_24_skolnik@netvision.net.il26_Fri, 4 Jan 80 20:42:40 PST706_US-ASCII Since I forget who asked for this list I am writing the names and addresses to the general list. Pleases forward to the office that asked for it. Sixth Workshop, Kfar Blum, 1956-1957: Allen Ehrlich, 1918 Dunmore, Ann Arbor, Mi 48103. Allen Weiner, 1880 N.E. 211th St., North Miami Beach, Fl 33179 Shirley (Disenhouse) Shapiro, 675 Roselawn Ave., Apt. 505, Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5N1L2 Marcia (Schwartz) Kreisel, Ramat Menachem, Begin 408,Tzfat 13200,Israel Marvin Bendavid, 205 West End, Apt.19U, N.Y.,N.Y. 10023 Pearl (Pearlson) Skolnik, Ma'aleh Helena Kagan, 5/36,Ramot 03,Jerusalem Hadassa (Eichenbaum) Plapler, 680 F.Washington, Apt.3D, N.Y.,N.Y.10023 Naomi (Wallach) Sandler, 29 Kfar [...] 5893 40 13_13th Workshop5_Cohen21_hnrcohen@mediaone.net31_Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:38:30 -0800601_iso-8859-1 In a move to curry favor with the establishment, I have undertaken to inform on the current whereabouts of my erstwhile comrades on the xiii workshop in the Western Galilee. The following comrades have succeeded in remaining underground, and your help is solicited in flushing them out:

Tamar Berghaus, California Gloria Eisenberg, Baltimore Marian Goldberg, NY Nora Janapol Bar-Ziv, LA Sandy Jusem, NJ Marcia Kovitz, Montreal Barbara Loeb, NY Toby Nacht, Vancouver Stan Newman, NY Rayna Orlowsky, NJ Judy Skulsky, Philadelphia Daniella Weiss, DC Stanley (Kibbutznik) Wolfe, NY [...] 5934 23 13_13th Workshop12_Alan Barland19_abarland@abdata.com31_Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:16:46 -0600479_us-ascii Hi Ronnie Tamar Berghaus is in charge of export sales at Maagan Michael's 'Plasson' plastics factory. Miriam Goldberg in NYMamma@aol.com and can be found on the Habonet. Nora Janapol is still in Urim. Sandy Jussem lives with her husband Ariyeh on a suburban moshav near Rechovot, I think its Bet Oved. Rhea probably has her e mail. Toby Nacht is married and lives on Kibbutz Mayan Zvi. Stan Wolfe runs his fathers lock smith business in Schectedy New York. Alan B. [...] 5958 15 17_Re: 13th Workshop0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 23 Jan 2000 21:39:23 EST281_us-ascii Hey Al- Why hasn't the CIA grabbed you up????? ...:) sue

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 5974 32 16_Re: Kvutza magic0_14_KBob24@aol.com29_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:35:32 EST574_us-ascii Folks:

I am thrilled that so many of you answered Ezra's call to help methodically build the master Foundation list. In answer to Rachel's question, what we have developed, with Ezra's leadership, is a more organized approach to gathering names than in the past. Instead of asking "who has names to send in" we are working by machaneh and by workshop. I am sure many of you will be surprised to learn that since September, we have gathered close to 1000 new names!! This to me is proof that we can continue to build support for the movement beyond what [...] 6007 59 24_Chance to Honor Sid Troy0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:49:16 EST632_us-ascii Chevre, Shalom!

(Sid & Shula, this is not for your eyes)

I just received a mailing from the Solomon Schechter School of Ocean and Monmouth Counties (New Jersey). Their Board is honoring Sid Troy at their upcoming 30th Anniversary dinner. He was one of their founders, too.

I don't know all of the details, but Sid Troy has been one of the gedolai Habonim Dror since the 40's. He and his wife Shula have maintained steadfast organizational and financial support for Habonim throughout their lives. Their children and grandchildren remain deeply involved in the Movement. Sid was the first Chairman [...] 6067 75 17_Re: 13th Workshop13_Sara Freedman15_freedmas@bc.edu31_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:34:54 -0400573_US-ASCII Dear Ronnie and Al, Here's another revision to the list: Nora Bar Ziv (Janapol) is living in Santa Monica, CA with her husband, Bara or was as of a year and a half ago when I visited them there. Daniella Weiss (I don't know her married name) is living in Israel. Sandy Levi (whose husband's name is Aaron) and who does live in Moshav Bet Ovid knows Daniella's address and is in frequent contact with her. Sandy recently became a grandmother, by the way. Tamar Berghaus (Emihovich) has two grandchildren and as Al noted, lives on Kibbutz Maagan Michael. Donna [...] 6143 32 38_Re: Mona Seliger & her husband Enrique12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 08:30:40 -0600 (CST)476_us-ascii FYI

ABBA EBAN: SUPPORTED REJECTION OF LAND FOR PEACE WITH SYRIAN DICTATOR

Aaron Lerner Date: 22 January, 2000

An article in the 19 January 2000 edition of Ha'aretz describes how David Ben Gurion rejected a "land for peace" offer by Syrian dictator Husni Zaim in 1949 for full diplomatic relations, a joint army and the absorption of 300 thousand refugees by Syria in return for moving the Israel-Syria border to the center of Lake Kinneret. [...] 6176 35 14_Minkin Funeral4_Ezra26_foundation@habonimdror.org31_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 11:52:30 -0500682_iso-8859-1 -----Original Message----- From: ymoch@mindspring.com To: foundation@habonimdror.org Date: Monday, January 24, 2000 11:30 AM Subject: minkin funeral



>Dear Chevrah: > >With a heavy heart, I am writing to inform you of the death of Emma Lee Min Minkin, Josh and Betsy's baby. The funeral will be on Tuesday, >January 25th, at 1:00 p.m.at Union Temple on Eastern Parkway (near Grand Army Plaza,Brooklyn). They will be sitting shiva at their apartment, 34 Plaza Street. >For those of you who hadn't heard the good news they had adopted Emma from China over the summer. >If you have questions or want to [...] 6212 19 17_Re: 13th Workshop14_Holtzer Family20_carmdave@urim.org.il31_Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:05:51 +0200357_iso-8859-1 Dear Alan,

You're behind the times - Nora Janapol left Urim several years ago for sunny California.....

Dave Holtzer

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6232 25 17_Re: 13th Workshop0_18_Green88888@aol.com29_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:37:04 EST572_us-ascii Hi Ronnie, Tamar Berghaus is now Tamar Amihovitch and can be reached at tamar@plasson.co.il Sandy Jusem is now Sandy Levi and lives with her husband Aaron on Bet Oved .I believe her e mail is the levis@hotmail.com, but I will check it on my other e mail address later. Toby Nacht is now Toby Jacobs and lives on Maayan Tsvi with her husbam Michael. I don't have e-mail for her but her phone number is 06-395258 Marian Goldberg is in New York and is NYMamma@aol.com. Danilla Weiss is Daniella Ashkenazi and she lives on Kfar Warburg Tel.08-585672 I hope this [...] 6258 34 25_Vocolot on the road again16_Linda Hirschhorn18_vocolot@sirius.com31_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 18:14:29 -0700456_us-ascii East Coasters! (Wash. D.C. and North Carolina) Come and see us!

Vocolot my women's acapella group will be at



Tifereth israel:16TH STREET AND JUNIPER NW DC (NEAR SILVER SPRING) The number to call for tickets is: 301 231-9067

on Saturday night March 4

Sunday night's March 5th we will be at the Aunt Stella theatre in Charlotte North Carolina for ticket info call David Phillips at the J.C.C. (704) 944-6735 [...] 6293 19 16_Re: Kvutza magic12_Shlomo Cohen17_stdcohen@cais.com31_Mon, 24 Jan 2000 22:34:13 -0500336_us-ascii Ezra:

Did you get my address list of 7th workshoppers which I mailed to you by snail mail.

Shlomo

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6313 17 13_13th Workshop7_Greener25_ddwgreen@netvision.net.il31_Tue, 25 Jan 2000 07:22:26 +0200387_us-ascii Daniella Weiss (I can't recall married name) lives in Kfar Warburg. Frank Perlmutter - where are you? - has the complete information.

Trudy (14th Workshop)

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6331 141 52_Put on a cow suit & Moooooooo (for economic justice)0_15_NEVETS2@aol.com29_Tue, 25 Jan 2000 01:43:57 EST376_us-ascii If you were too busy to go to Seattle, here's your chance to steer (no pun intended) the Global Economy. Save Chubby Hubby, Totally Nuts, Chocolate Brownie, Rainforest Crunch, Phish Food and all your other favorites, as well as the unique business culture that produces them. Help build a braver new world. ------------------------------------------------------ [...] 6473 29 23_Science Fiction Library14_Tova Silverman26_tova@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il37_Tue, 25 Jan 2000 09:55:27 +0200 (IST)374_- My name is Tova Hammerman Silverman, Habonim Workshop #5. We have lived in Rehovot for 32 years during which time my Husband Bill and our friend Aharon Sheer from Los Angeles started a Science Fiction Club which met every month. Now after 15 years the club has grown older and the young people, who were influenced by fantasy have started their own club in Tel Aviv. [...] 6503 29 23_Science Fiction Library14_Tova Silverman26_tova@wisdom.weizmann.ac.il37_Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:07:51 +0200 (IST)374_- My name is Tova Hammerman Silverman, Habonim Workshop #5. We have lived in Rehovot for 32 years during which time my Husband Bill and our friend Aharon Sheer from Los Angeles started a Science Fiction Club which met every month. Now after 15 years the club has grown older and the young people, who were influenced by fantasy have started their own club in Tel Aviv. [...] 6533 21 17_Re: 13th Workshop16_Miriam Bernhardt24_miriam_b@neve-ilan.co.il31_Tue, 25 Jan 2000 13:03:27 +0200464_us-ascii Frank Perlmutter is at Sde Nitzan. At 07:22 25/01/2000 +0200, you wrote: >Daniella Weiss (I can't recall married name) lives in Kfar Warburg. >Frank Perlmutter - where are you? - has the complete information. > >Trudy (14th Workshop) > > >

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6555 122 0_12_Amnon Hadary22_amriv@netvision.net.il31_Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:48:29 +0200589_us-ascii Haverim/ot In July and August when it's really hot and politicians find urgent business to attend to abroad the newspapers have little to report on. Over the years this period was dubbed "onat hammelafefonim, the cucucmber season. In English parlance the equivalent phrase is dog days. I look out our window in Jerusalem tonight and everything is coverfed in a beautiful carpet of snow. Kinda makes you feel good because you don't see the shmutz. Speaking of seasons no one seems compelled to write habonet much lately. So for now I want to share with you something I read a [...] 6678 28 36_New issue of chadashot in the making12_trilby smith17_trilbys@erols.com31_Thu, 27 Jan 2000 21:44:37 -0500564_us-ascii Hello chevrei! It's that time again - we are working on the next issue of Chadashot, the Habonim Dror Foundation newsletter. I have two requests in relation to this issue: 1. Anyone with information about Habonim Dror alumni events, such as reunions, taking place in April or beyond, please send me an e-mail with the information so it can be included. 2. If anyone knows how to reach Marc Linton on Kfar Charuv (in the Golan), please let me know - or if you know how I might track him down - thanks. Please reply to me directly at trilbys@erols.com [...] 6707 26 32_Reunion of 4th Habonim Institute15_Nechemia Meyers32_rrmeyers@wisemail.weizmann.ac.il31_Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:41:16 +0200558_US-ASCII Shalom Chevre, Though I have written to all those directly concerned, perhaps this will reach someone who didn't get my letter for some reason. On the evening of March 25 there will be a reunion of the members of the 4th Habonim Institute (of 1948)at our home on the occasion of the visit to Israel of Bugs Levin of California, one of our alumni. While I'm at it, and with no connection whatsoever, I'd like to say how pleased I am to have today's local broadcasts concentrate on the weather and not on scandals, their standard fare for a long [...] 6734 48 0_15_Leo Diesendruck18_leodie@isdn.net.il31_Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:25:06 +0200270_iso-8859-8 I recently received a copy of a very interesting article by Prof. Anita Shapira of Tel Aviv University on the "New Historians" (Benny Morris and Avi Shleim) from the "New Republic". I have located it on the internet and can send you a copy of it upon request. 6783 27 3_Re:12_Adele Perlov20_adele-p@inter.net.il31_Sat, 29 Jan 2000 10:27:08 +0200517_us-ascii dear leo,

i would be very interested in receiving a copy of the good professor's article. i too often get into "discussions" on the subject without being able to adequately respond.

thanks for the offer.

regards to jon.

shabbat shalom, adele perlov





------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6811 21 3_Re:12_Stan Goldman17_stan@inter.net.il31_Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:10:40 +0200378_us-ascii Leo Diesendruck wrote: > > I recently received a copy of a very interesting article by Prof. > Anita Shapira of Tel Aviv University on the "New Historians" (Benny > Morris and Avi Shleim) from the "New Republic". I have located it on > the internet and can send you a copy of it upon request. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Please send me a copy Stan Goldman [...] 6833 22 3_Re:11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:41:50 -0500441_us-ascii Leo,

Please do. I am avidly reading both of their recent books.

Mark

At 09:25 AM 1/29/2000 +0200, you wrote: > """". I have located it on the internet and can send you a copy of it >upon request.

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6856 77 3_Re:13_moshe sheskin24_sheskin@barak-online.net31_Sat, 29 Jan 2000 17:33:50 +0200468_iso-8859-8 I would appreciate receiving the articles.. thanks loads. ----- Original Message ----- From: Leo Diesendruck To: HABONET Cc: hdna@egroups.com Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:25 AM



I recently received a copy of a very interesting article by Prof. Anita Shapira of Tel Aviv University on the "New Historians" (Benny Morris and Avi Shleim) from the "New Republic". I have located it on the internet and can send you a copy of it upon request. 6934 15 3_Re:0_16_Aborciah@aol.com29_Sat, 29 Jan 2000 14:02:43 EST307_us-ascii I'd also like to receive the article by Anita Shapira....thanks. Anita Borcia Horn

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 6950 35 31_A Little Eroticism for Amnon...0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sat, 29 Jan 2000 18:47:17 EST540_us-ascii I was reminded by this piece of the crossroads I had come to when I was in college. Having majored in music, and having had a terrible disagreement with the Head of the Department about Bach, I had decided to switch majors to Comparative Literature with an emphasis on Hebrew. I went to the Chairman of the Department, A Dr. Friedman, and told him I wanted to join his department. One had to have a high-level proficiency in a foreign language at the time. I told him I had Hebrew, and his quote to me was "Well, what good is [...] 6986 29 36_Re: Reunion of 4th Habonim Institute11_batya fromm18_fromm@inter.net.il31_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:21:22 +0200544_us-ascii Hi Nechemia and Adeera, Shimin had a big operation two weeks ago in Kaplan, had part of his leg replaced. We only found out at the end of last week. He is being rehabilitated in Hartzfeld, in Gedera and will be there one more week at least. Yesterday we went to visit him and found that he is doing well, all things considered. We think he needs more visitors who will encourage him to move around with his walker because he doesn't see much of the physiotherapist. He doesn't have a pelaphone and there are no phones near him so [...] 7016 45 18_The New Historians11_Mark Hammel18_mhammel@ulster.net31_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:49:53 -0500636_us-ascii Chevre:

The article by Anita Shapira reviewing new books by Benny Morris and Avi Shlaim can be found at:

http://www.tnr.com/magazines/tnr/112999/shapira112999.html

It is a long and interesting essay, but I must say, her major point against Shlaim's tendentiousness is based on her own attributions of such emotions as "glee" to Shlaim when that is only her own tendentious interpretation of his writing. She faults Shlaim for claiming that Ben Gurion was influenced by Jabotinsky's concept of the Iron Wall, which he never claimed, but rather demonstrated the similarity between their two approaches. [...] 7062 20 27_Re: sicha-- over-reactions!0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 00:54:30 EST504_us-ascii Yet, Sam Flesher and others really do "believe" you; they don't think you say things tongue in cheek. They think you are a "right-winger". So now I am the one really confused. Who is right--you or Sam? And who cares? Many people are getting turned off by the tenor of the fighting and want to move on to new topics and a more civil tone. Let's do that. --Jackie Porter. By the way, where do you live? and what's your phone number? would love to talk and get together. I always admired you. [...] 7083 16 94_Re: Enrique E. Palacios for Alameda County Board of Education http://www.netwiz.net/~palacios/0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:04:51 EST379_us-ascii I ran for "Bored" of Education and got 2,000 votes; i think more people should run for office. I may run for Congress one day here in Mass!--Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7100 16 21_Re: Big Brother......0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:08:27 EST399_us-ascii I think Ann Peck's mother lives in Cambridge. Her name is Shulamit Peck and her phone number is (617) 661-8026. I could be wrong but it's worth a TRY.--MY BEST, JACKIE PORTER

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7117 21 21_Re: Big Brother......0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:15:29 EST533_us-ascii I would like to find out a list of 12th Workshoppers and where they are and also a list of Machon Lamed-Aleph (1962-63) people in Yerushalyim, some of whom like Bruce Kutnick were with the 12th Workshop on Gesher Haziv. Also, if anyone has any memoirs of those years. If some one could fax me such a list that would be great--my fax is (617) 964-3971. I get charged $1 a page so please no long documents or lists. If more than a few pages, just snailmail them to me at 35 Webster St. Suite 4, West Newton, MA 02465--My [...] 7139 15 17_Re: 13th Workshop0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:30:33 EST306_us-ascii To Alan Barland. Email back--let's chat off-line. Long time no see--Jackie Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7155 17 3_Re:0_17_JackNusan@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 01:41:52 EST483_us-ascii Yes, i'd like to see a copy too of the Benny Morris, etc. peice. Also, you noted that you have a list of Workshoppers. Could you snailmail them to me at The Allen House, 35 Webster St., Suite 4, West Newton, Mass. 02465 USA--Thanx--Jackie (Jack Nusan) Porter

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7173 17 36_Re: Reunion of 4th Habonim Institute15_Nechemia Meyers32_rrmeyers@wisemail.weizmann.ac.il31_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 10:21:13 +0200359_US-ASCII Dear Batya, Thanks for the information. I'll go see Shimin. Adeerah and I are pleased you'll be coming in March. All the best, Nechemia

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org ----------------------- 7191 35 27_Re: sicha-- over-reactions!11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:56:42 -0500412_us-ascii Dov Liberman wrote:

> Dear Jack, > > Bless you for understanding. We are the same age. I guess it's a generation > thing. > > B'vracha, > Dov

Dear Dov,

I wonder if you would consider trying to make just one statement without putting others down?

Musing idly,

Noam

p.s. Jack Nusan - you might want to check into efax - free fax to your email. www.efax.com. [...] 7227 21 39_Re: sicha-- over-reactions! ( re: efax)0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:59:18 EST313_us-ascii In a message dated 1/30/00 6:55:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, n.stopak@scienceserver.com writes:

<< . Jack Nusan - you might want to check into efax - free fax to your email. www.efax.com. >> Noam- efax is not free- there is a small quarterly charge...( at least out here in the west!) ---sue [...] 7249 132 19_Fwd: Golan Petition0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:02:10 EST95_us-ascii

I thought this might be an interesting thing to forward...any opinions???? sue 7382 24 40_Re: New issue of chadashot in the making0_14_cbma@erols.com31_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 12:11:17 -0500366_us-ascii If Tammy Schmidt, Mosh registrar, hasn't sent this info yet, we are having a Mosh reunion at Mosh in Street, MD on Sunday, August 27, 2000. Plans include a full day to include avodah, shira, sicha, kumsitz, rikudei am, and tochnit erev. We will serve lunch & dinner, and a roster/adbook is in the works. We are meeting monthly to work out the details. [...] 7407 32 8_re: efax11_Noam Stopak26_n.stopak@scienceserver.com31_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:19:28 -0500355_us-ascii Sue,

Perhaps it depends on which service you get? I only receive faxes, I can't send. I've had the service since late spring and I've never been charged. I signed on early - perhaps they started charging later?

Those interested may wish to visit the web site to see for themselves.

Noam

LiberHawke@aol.com wrote: [...] 7440 31 43_A Settlement with Syria--One Israeli's View15_Nechemia Meyers32_rrmeyers@wisemail.weizmann.ac.il31_Sun, 30 Jan 2000 23:41:10 +0200583_US-ASCII Shalom Chevre, In response to Noam's request, I'd like to offer a few comments about a possible settlement with Syria. As things stand now, I think a referendum on the issue of leaving the Golan in return for an agreement with Syria will probably be defeated. This is primarily due, in my view, to the behavior of the Syrians. Whereas Sadat won over the Israeli public with his dramatic flight to Ben-Gurion Airport and his "no more war" speech in the Knesset, Assad has done nothing at all to convince individual Israelis that he seeks a rapprochement with the Jewish [...] 7472 49 27_Re: sicha-- over-reactions!12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:41:02 -0600 (CST)551_us-ascii Dear Noam. I consider you to be a wonderful, intelligent, and stimulating person. I am happy that I got to meet you on here.

How's that?

Dov



>Dov Liberman wrote: > >> Dear Jack, >> >> Bless you for understanding. We are the same age. I guess it's a generation >> thing. >> >> B'vracha, >> Dov > >Dear Dov, > >I wonder if you would consider trying to make just one statement without putting others down? > >Musing idly, > >Noam > >p.s. Jack Nusan - you might want to check into efax - free fax to your email. [...] 7522 39 7_Re: FYI12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:45:00 -0600 (CST)645_us-ascii HATING THE ISRAELIS AS JEWS WHY TERRITORIAL SURRENDERS CAN NEVER BRING PEACE TO ISRAEL

30 January 2000 Louis Rene Beres Professor of International Law Department of Political Science Purdue University West Lafayette IN 47907 USA

TEL 765/494-4189 FAX 765/494-0833 E MAIL BERES@POLSCI.PURDUE.EDU

--------

O our beautiful land imprisoned in a cage and surrounded by wolves, My shaded garden, the tormentors have destroyed you, and the dogs have settled in you, O Jerusalem, O my city, With my notebook and pencil and the fire of my rifle I will shatter the cage, I will kill the wolves and plant the flag. [...] 7562 49 20_Re: More information12_Dov Liberman16_DLiberman@UH.EDU37_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 12:47:29 -0600 (CST)561_us-ascii In the strict Islamic view, Israel is always the individual Jew in macrocosm. The Jewish State must be despised because of this relationship, because of the allegedly "innate evil" of each individual Jew. This is a very far cry from the view (accepted by supporters of the Oslo Process) that Israel is despised only because it is an "occupier." The Israeli is despised in the Islamic world because he is a Jew. Period. This critical Islamic position was clarified by a recent article in AL- AHRAM. Here, Dr. Lufti Abd al-Azim wrote unambiguously: [...] 7612 27 20_Re: More information13_Yuval Warshai16_warshais@tir.com31_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:10:03 -0500530_iso-8859-1 Dov Liberman wrote, after trying to scare us with commonplace antisemitic shibboleths:

>Statements such as these make some people very nervous about the how the >"peace" process is going.



Especially paranoid and fascistically inclined (with some Orthodox 'xozer bitshuvah' influence on top) right-wing Jews. It is the old fascistic scare tactics again: spread fear and change the political climate to one of fear that can be then controlled by ideologies of power and domination. ___ |Y| ^^^ [...] 7640 16 28_Dov - re your latest posting0_18_Judithb253@aol.com29_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:44:01 EST452_us-ascii Why couldn't someone get the N.,Y. Times and the Washington post to read some of these quotations and publish them. Even the good, non involved, casual American public might just sit up and notice. Do we dare them to - or what?

------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------+ Hosted by Shamash: The Jewish Internet Consortium http://shamash.org ------------------------ habonet@shamash.org -----------------------= 7657 41 28_12th Workshoppers still AWOL11_Phil Safier17_psafier@elixa.com31_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:13:58 -0700566_us-ascii I still have not received info on the following 12th Workshoppers. Please rack your brains and help a guy out here. Even if you only have an idea of a contact, let me know

Don't make me hurt you.

PLEASE CONTACT ME OFF-LIST!

Cohen, Sue Eichner, Phil Fortinsky, Barbara Gaber, Dennis Goldberg, Anne Goldenberg, Rona Hammerman, Bill Klein Rotstein,Rochelle Lissauer, Jack Lyon, Naomi Maidstone, Ruth Maltun, Ellen Masur, Elliot Molotok, Mona Schonebaum,Naomi Schreibman, Sandy Shaffer, Barbara Slafkin, Harvey Tieman, Bob Zyk, Arlene [...] 7699 24 20_Re: More information0_18_LiberHawke@aol.com29_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:04:32 EST558_us-ascii Yuval- I wonder how smug you would be if you lived this day in and day out, had friends and relatives murdered by terrorists, and still had the chutzpah to dream of peace even if you knew the PR of the enemy is still reeling in hate.

I am sorry that you delegate this to a mere scare tactic of the Orthodox ( please try not to generalize-my son is "orthodox" and very Zionist-and a good human being and I don't think that this categorization is exclusive one from the other)....I don't think that the Orthodox wrote those quotes. Please [...] 7724 27 20_Re: More information0_13_Mmxmm@aol.com29_Mon, 31 Jan 2000 19:20:54 EST526_us-ascii In a message dated 1/31/2000 4:05:30 PM Pacific Standard Time, LiberHawke@aol.com writes: <>

Sue,

If this is chutzpah...then sign me up to the dream. And what about those who are in your mind 'legit'..living daily lives. Are they also smug if they perchance dream the dream or would you prefer they remain trapped in the nightmare? [...]